If I remember correctly, you have turn on your display in this case to make the selection to SACD on screen, since the player will give the first priority to CD on hybrid disc.

Using the OSD, I did select 2-channel as the playback option for SACD in initial settings. I have also tried multichannel. Still, can't get Hybrids to play anything but CD layer.

For my SACD only discs, it works well and I have toggled from stereo to multi using the onscreen with no problems.

I have emailed pioneer, and will now make sure the firmware is up to date. Any other ideas?

Edit: Firmware version 1.306

If I remember correctly, you have turn on your display in this case to make the selection to SACD on screen, since the player will give the first priority to CD on hybrid disc.

No. I just checked with DSOTM. Mine defaults to the SACD layer.

Andy- 1.306 is a pretty old firmware level. While I don't think that's the problem, it does sound like your player for some reason isn't "seeing" the SACD layer if a CD layer is present.

No. I just checked with DSOTM. Mine defaults to the SACD layer.

Andy- 1.306 is a pretty old firmware level. While I don't think that's the problem, it does sound like your player for some reason isn't "seeing" the SACD layer if a CD layer is present.

Thanks, Kevin. I will see about updating the firmware and have already emailed Pioneer product support. Hopefully, somehow this minor issue will be remedied so I can hear DSOTM in multichannel!

BTW, can the firmware be downloaded and updated by owner, or just a service center? Thanks again for help.

AFAIK, the firmware for this player is not available for download.

Does the 59avi have the option for auto power off? Am I missing it somewhere in the manual?

Andy- You have to send the player back to Pioneer for a firmware upgrade unfortunately. Make sure to tell them about the lack of seeing the SACD layer on hybrid discs too just in case it doesn't have anthing to with the firmware.

On my 59avi, DVD+R DL disks play fine, but when the film gets to the layer change the player freezes. You can continue playing only by advancing to the next chapter and then rewinding to just after the layer change.

Disk authored using DVD Decrypter from an iso file.

On my 59avi, DVD+R DL disks play fine, but when the film gets to the layer change the player freezes. You can continue playing only by advancing to the next chapter and then rewinding to just after the layer change.

Disk authored using DVD Decrypter from an iso file.


What brand of discs are you using?

On my 59avi, DVD+R DL disks play fine, but when the film gets to the layer change the player freezes. You can continue playing only by advancing to the next chapter and then rewinding to just after the layer change.

Disk authored using DVD Decrypter from an iso file.

I still have never been able to get my 59avi to play a DVD-R single layer authored with DVD Decrypter using the delete extras method. If it is a direct copy, it will play fine! :confused:

What brand of discs are you using? Dysan

Dysan

Try Verbatim DVD+R DL. I've found them to be the only brand to work consistently.

Try Verbatim DVD+R DL. I've found them to be the only brand to work consistently.

I used the Verbatim DVD-R's, and they don't work with the method indicated in my post above.

Have you tried using Nero to burn? All my Verb+DLs work great on my 59avi. Other brands give similar symptoms as what you describe.

I do burn with Nero. I decrypt with DVD decrypter, but burn with Nero.

Sorry Rob, don't know what else to say if you're still having this problem with the Verbatim DVD+R DL's too.

I too use Verbatim DVD+R DL in the DV59AVI. They are excellent. If you use Nero, make sure to finalize the disc properly. I always use the SmartStart wizard so most of the settings are already defined by the time I burn. I don't know the exact name but there is an option for "high compatibility" [with DVD players] before you start burning. Decreasing the burning speed may help as well but it may be a pain to wait.

Sorry Rob, don't know what else to say if you're still having this problem with the Verbatim DVD+R DL's too.

No, only DVD-R's, single layer.

I am feeding to a Fijitsu 42" (40 series) plasma via HDMI; that has an excellent processor. Should I have the DVD player upconvert; or the plasma?

rdkaz,
Using my Fujitsu P50 (30 series) I initially settled on 1080p out of the 59avi -- running HDMI to DVI from the 59avi. That produces a great picture with correct image size and centering. This means you are scaling twice: The 59avi de-interlaces and up-scales to 1080p and then the P50 down-scales to 768p.

But after quite a bit of testing, I've now decided I prefer using 480p running HDMI to DVI. Of course the P50 doesn't offer the option of using 480i with this cabling. So the 59avi does the de-interlacing to produce 480p, and then the P50 up-scales to 768p.

The difference is subtle, but I think it is real. The bottom line is that either the scaling is better in the P50 or the choice of only one scaling pass instead of two is better -- at least to my eye. Of course the Fujitsus are well known to have excellent scaling, so this result may very well not apply to other panels where it would be better to let the 59avi do this job.

In addition, your 42" Fujitsu has a different pixel count than the 50" which may also alter the result. So calibrate both ways -- in fact you should also try 720P from the 59avi -- and judge for yourself. But I think you will likely find 480p to be a real candidate for "best" here with your Fujitsu.
--Bob

Hi,

Looking to pick one of these up due to not having the dreaded macroblocking issue.... But do not want to get stuck with older firmware and having to send it into pioneer for upgrading.

Can someone please tell me what month and year has the latest firmware, and what issues it fixed.

Thanks.

rdkaz,
Using my Fujitsu P50 (30 series) I initially settled on 1080p out of the 59avi -- running HDMI to DVI from the 59avi. That produces a great picture with correct image size and centering. This means you are scaling twice: The 59avi de-interlaces and up-scales to 1080p and then the P50 down-scales to 768p.

But after quite a bit of testing, I've now decided I prefer using 480p running HDMI to DVI. Of course the P50 doesn't offer the option of using 480i with this cabling. So the 59avi does the de-interlacing to produce 480p, and then the P50 up-scales to 768p.

The difference is subtle, but I think it is real. The bottom line is that either the scaling is better in the P50 or the choice of only one scaling pass instead of two is better -- at least to my eye. Of course the Fujitsus are well known to have excellent scaling, so this result may very well not apply to other panels where it would be better to let the 59avi do this job.

In addition, your 42" Fujitsu has a different pixel count than the 50" which may also alter the result. So calibrate both ways -- in fact you should also try 720P from the 59avi -- and judge for yourself. But I think you will likely find 480p to be a real candidate for "best" here with your Fujitsu.
--Bob

Bob: Thanks for the reply.

My P42 can also accept 480i in addition to 480p. I think the Fujitsu processor will convert to 720p to the display. Do you think that might be best?

Thanks.

rdkaz,
That's hard to say. There's quite a bit of discussion a little ways further back in this thread about a bug the 59avi has when set to HDMI 480i. The bug cause problems with "Blacker than Black" and "Peak White" data. There's a workaround (adjusting settings in the 59avi) that fixes that at the cost of a handful of rounding errors. In addition, you need to also re-adjust the display's color settings when using these 59avi settings to compensate for color conversion math triggered by these settings that results in a somewhat more saturated color pallette.

So if you select HDMI 480i your choices are either to accept the loss of BTB and PW data (at the extreme ends of the gray scale), or to live with a few rounding errors across the range of the gray scale along with using a display-side color setting that will work fine but will be different from what you would use with other HDMI source devices such as an HDTV receiver.

All of this would be just to move the de-interlacing from the 59avi side to the display side. Folks with good external scalers want to do that, but I don't know that de-interlacing in the Fujitsu is that much better than in the 59avi to bother with this. The key test would be video based content on DVDs (such as live music events) where the 59avi is weakest in de-interlacing -- not that bad, but just not as good as how it handles film based content.
--Bob

I think the Fujitsu processor will convert to 720p to the display. Just so you know, that is not a correct statement. The AVM in the Fujitsu will convert all "sizes" of input video to the "native resolution" of the plasma. In your case it's either 852x480 or 1024x768, IIRC. Neither is 720p (1280x720). This is true for any digital display. There are some DLPs and LCD displays whose native resolution is 1280x720.

larry

badabing,
I don't believe anyone has figured out what the various firmware versions have changed. Pioneer has kept this secret.

To the best of my knowledge, there have been no reported problems with the 59avi's manufactured after, say, July 2004, that have been verified as fixed in newer production units.

The assumption has been that some of these firmware changes were just related to release of european or asian versions, or were dealing with something rare affecting the exotic audio disc formats as opposed to DVD playback. But that's just guess work.

If you are buying an older 59avi, any manufacturing date in 2005 or 2006 should work just fine for you as best I know. But be aware that there are still known bugs in the latest production 59avi's, so you won't be getting a "perfect" machine anyway.
--Bob

rdkaz,
Using my Fujitsu P50 (30 series) I initially settled on 1080p out of the 59avi -- running HDMI to DVI from the 59avi.

Bob, I assume you meant you settled on 1080i out of the 59avi, not 1080p? Or did I just learn of a capability the 50avi has that I was not aware? ;)

Rob,
Yes, 1080i initially, but now 480p.

I've been reading too many HD-DVD and Blue Ray threads....
--Bob

Rob,
Yes, 1080i initially, but now 480p.

I've been reading too many HD-DVD and Blue Ray threads....
--Bob

I hear ya! Hopefully it wont be too much longer before we can start an owners thread for one of the BD players. The way they continue to be delayed, who knows when that might be though.

>To the best of my knowledge, there have been no reported problems with the 59avi's manufactured after, say, July 2004, that have been verified as fixed in newer production units.

Thanks Bob.

Just so you know, that is not a correct statement. The AVM in the Fujitsu will convert all "sizes" of input video to the "native resolution" of the plasma. In your case it's either 852x480 or 1024x768, IIRC. Neither is 720p (1280x720). This is true for any digital display. There are some DLPs and LCD displays whose native resolution is 1280x720.

larry.

Thanks. Now that you mention it, the native resolution of the monitor is 1024x1024.

rdkaz,
That's hard to say. There's quite a bit of discussion a little ways further back in this thread about a bug the 59avi has when set to HDMI 480i. The bug cause problems with "Blacker than Black" and "Peak White" data. There's a workaround (adjusting settings in the 59avi) that fixes that at the cost of a handful of rounding errors. In addition, you need to also re-adjust the display's color settings when using these 59avi settings to compensate for color conversion math triggered by these settings that results in a somewhat more saturated color pallette.

So if you select HDMI 480i your choices are either to accept the loss of BTB and PW data (at the extreme ends of the gray scale), or to live with a few rounding errors across the range of the gray scale along with using a display-side color setting that will work fine but will be different from what you would use with other HDMI source devices such as an HDTV receiver.

All of this would be just to move the de-interlacing from the 59avi side to the display side. Folks with good external scalers want to do that, but I don't know that de-interlacing in the Fujitsu is that much better than in the 59avi to bother with this. The key test would be video based content on DVDs (such as live music events) where the 59avi is weakest in de-interlacing -- not that bad, but just not as good as how it handles film based content.
--Bob

I will try 480p and see how it looks.

Thanks for the info.

Quick question,

Going through the owners manual of the 59avi, i found that pioneer, for some reason, now decided to remove the MNR (mosquito noise reduction) and BNR (block noise reduction) from the video settings option menu of the 59avi. These features were on the previous DV-47ai model, as well as others. BTW.... both, the 59avi and 47ai have CNR, YNR so that is nothing new. Does this mean they have some other built in filter inside the 59avi, that they don't need MNR, or BNR, anymore?

Any thoughts on this...

In an attempt to improve my picture even further, I had an SDI port added to my DV-59Avi by Lumagen. The SDI port attaches on the output side of the player's MPEG decoder, and bypasses all video processing done further down the chain. I'm now running SDI between the player and the scaler, everything else remains the same. SDI is a digital coax connection commonly used in the video industry for professional equipment. The format is 480i YCbCr (BT.601), I think.

Initial impressions are very positive. There is no longer any issues passing BTB and WTW in 480i. The picture has much improved depth, something that surprised me. Textures are much more detailed as well. Highly recommended!

I assumed "HDMI Direct" would be a pass-through of the actual DVD data (minus BTB/WTW of course), but that doesn't seem to be the case. There is definitely some processing going on even in "HDMI Direct" mode that hurts the picture.

Caveat Emptor: I have a very finely tuned video chain and everything is closely calibrated, and it's definitely a step up for me. Unless you have a fully calibrated setup and a good display, I'm not sure how big of a difference this would make for other people.

.

Thanks. Now that you mention it, the native resolution of the monitor is 1024x1024. Oh, I was thinking about the ALIS panels, but didn't mention. Acutally, since you have an interlaced plasma, only 1024x512 is displayed during a refresh cycle. 512 alternating lines on one cycle, the other 512 the next. I remember reading a doc from Fujitsu and they claimed that the 1024x1024 ALIS panels were made with 1080i in mind. IIRC, the newer eAlis 55" inch FHP panels refresh twice a cycle to give the appearance of a full scan in one cycle (50 or 60Hz refresh).

larry

Anyone having trouble with thier pioneer not
playing SACD's.
The player will recognize the cd layer but not
the sacd 5.1 section.DVD audios play fine.
Any help would be appreciated.

Anyone having trouble with thier pioneer not
playing SACD's.
The player will recognize the cd layer but not
the sacd 5.1 section.DVD audios play fine.
Any help would be appreciated.

No, in fact my 59AVi hasn't had a problem with any SACDs, whereas my previous Sony has problems with several SACDs. I suspect the Sony's laser has gotten out of alignment. Maybe the same thing has happened to your 59AVi?

Doug

RONM,

Did you make sure that the player defaults to the "Multi-Ch Area" for SACD in the audio menu? This requires you to stop the player and enter the audio settings. If you've been playing SACD multichannel and then lost it, then that is a different story.

When you listen to DVD-A, you may in fact be only listening to the 5.1 DTS track layer through the optical or digital coaxial cable. Both DVD-A and SACD must be sent to your receiver through 3 pairs of RCA interconnects to the receiver (unless you are lucky enough to have the iLink b/w this player and a compatible receiver). We need to know the following to further diagnose your problem:

1) Were you ever able to play SACD multichannel through this Pioneer?
2) Are you using RCA interconnects or iLink?
3) Do you have any optical or digital coax connected?
4) Does your menu default to "Multi-Ch Area" for SACD and have "5.1 Channel" selected for Audio Output mode?
5) Have you updated firmware recently? That normally resets player to default.

I came across a thread on HTF where a guy actually had an SACD disc go bad. It used to play in his player, and then wouldn't. He bought a new one, same title, and it played fine. He couldn't see anything wrong with the disc either (like "CD rot" or anything). I had the same disc, quite a few years old, and mine still played fine. A bad batch maybe. But it could be your player too.

Is it even wise to consider buying the latest DV-79Avi instead of going with one of the latest HD-DVD or BD players?

I am have a Lumagen Vision HDP scaler and a Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY.

I am a bit confused with what i should buy..

For video get a Oppo 970HD to feed the lumagen 480i via HDMI. $150. I saw used 59avi for $400 the other day.

larry

For video get a Oppo 970HD to feed the lumagen 480i via HDMI. $150. I saw used 59avi for $400 the other day.

larry

I need good audio also for my CD collection.

I'd still buy the Oppo and get a separate player for audio if you have the room. Once separated, audio choices increase by an order of magnitude.

larry

Is it possible to output SACD via HDMI?

Yes, with a source with HDMI 1.2 specs, but not from the 59. SACD is thru the iLink to a compatible rcvr or pre/pro, or the analog 5.1 connections on this player.

Has anyone experienced intermittent video dropped off on your 59avi?

I bought mine used and had no problem w/ the first couple DVDs. It well connected w/ BetterCables HDMI. I was watching the Firewall last night and the picture went out on me for couple minutes, came back on and went off for good. I finished the rest of the movie on Oppo971. What's the likelihood of bad HDMI-Port on the player? Can the cable go bad?

Cheers,
TP

The HDMI connection is unfortunately not very secure (compared to DVI). Double check the connection on the 59avi end as well as the TV end. How long is your HDMI cable?

If the player still falls under the original 2 year Elite warranty, have it checked out by an authorized Pioneer location. I have never experienced this problem with mine but it's gone back for servicing for something else.

The HDMI connection is unfortunately not very secure (compared to DVI). Double check the connection on the 59avi end as well as the TV end. How long is your HDMI cable?

If the player still falls under the original 2 year Elite warranty, have it checked out by an authorized Pioneer location. I have never experienced this problem with mine but it's gone back for servicing for something else.

My 6ft cable was all tight on both ends. I'll test to see if it's the cable or the player before I send it in.

Cheers,

The HDMI connection is unfortunately not very secure (compared to DVI). Double check the connection on the 59avi end as well as the TV end. How long is your HDMI cable?

If the player still falls under the original 2 year Elite warranty, have it checked out by an authorized Pioneer location. I have never experienced this problem with mine but it's gone back for servicing for something else.

By the way, does the light lid when under stand-by mode? No light on mine when it's off. Normal?

Cheers,
TP.

Has anyone experienced intermittent video dropped off on your 59avi? I've had my 59AVi hooked up via HDMI for about 4 months now, and I've never seen this. Before you send it back to Pio, I'd recommend trying another cable.

I got mine from Monoprice, an AVS sponsor :), for something like $10. Very well made cable.

By the way, does the light lid when under stand-by mode? No light on mine when it's off. Normal?

There is no light when the player is under standby mode. Definitely check another cable.

?

There is no light when the player is under standby mode. Definitely check another cable.

I tried w/ a new cable and it works fine. Also, the old cable works just fine, too. Don't know what happened but the player hasn't been acting up for last few hours w/ the old cable. I can take it to an authorized service center but not sure what they can do. Should I bring it in anyway?

Cheers,
TP.

It has to be the connector, or the way u plug it, not only to the player, but to the display also. as said earlier, the hdmi connector is not very secure. the pio elite is an extremely well built unit. I had used for more than 2 yrs, on two diff units, never had any issue.

I'd bet on the cable or the connection too. Watch a few movies and see if you see the problem again. Remember, if the service center can't reproduce it, they won't do anything for you.

I'd bet on the cable or the connection too. Watch a few movies and see if you see the problem again. Remember, if the service center can't reproduce it, they won't do anything for you.

I'm very positive that the connection of both ends were secured and had no play when I checked after the player acted up. Hopefully, it's a one time thingy ;-)

Cheers,
TP

I can take it to an authorized service center but not sure what they can do. Should I bring it in anyway?



Boy, I sure wouldn't recommend taking it to a service center unless it REALLY needs it. I have had mine in the shop for nearly two months now. The iLink audio stopped working and at the same time the video, for all practical purposes, quit working. The service center I used said that Pioneer finally gave up and are replacing it (I'm sure it will be a refurb), but that it will take 3-4 weeks for Pioneer to ship it to the service center and then they will ship it to me. I am a little frustrated that at least 2 months of my warranty are being consumed with the goofy thing being in the shop.

Prior to shipping mine in I had a coworker tell me that Pioneer repairs took a looong time. He was sure right about that.

I won't take it in since it's working ok for now & still has some months left on the warranty.

Cheers,
TP.

Boy, I sure wouldn't recommend taking it to a service center unless it REALLY needs it. I have had mine in the shop for nearly two months now. The iLink audio stopped working and at the same time the video, for all practical purposes, quit working. The service center I used said that Pioneer finally gave up and are replacing it (I'm sure it will be a refurb), but that it will take 3-4 weeks for Pioneer to ship it to the service center and then they will ship it to me. I am a little frustrated that at least 2 months of my warranty are being consumed with the goofy thing being in the shop.

Prior to shipping mine in I had a coworker tell me that Pioneer repairs took a looong time. He was sure right about that.

It bothered why it wasn't working properly and I finally figured it out. I didn't unplug the Elite plasma while connecting the hdmi to the media receiver. I tested & replicated the problem everytime under stand-by mode. Now I can let it rest ;-)

Cheers,
TP.

It has to be the connector, or the way u plug it, not only to the player, but to the display also. as said earlier, the hdmi connector is not very secure. the pio elite is an extremely well built unit. I had used for more than 2 yrs, on two diff units, never had any issue.

I finally got my 59AVi back yesterday after it being in the shop for two months. I plug it in and the display panel is flashing "No Id Number." It at least works and will play video but the iLink audio has cut out twice requiring me to power the unit down and turn it back on to get the audio to work again. I called the authorized repair center who repaired it to ask what to do about this and they said that it was working properly when it left their shop, and they would have to call Pioneer for instructions and for me to call later.

They also informed me, despite what they told me about 2-3 weeks ago that a replacement unit was being sent from Pioneer because my unit was not able to be repaired, that my unit was repaired because Pioneer didn't have any replacement units available.

I hate having to go through a repair center rather than Pioneer themselves, because there is NO WAY I'm sending this back in without having a replacement unit sent to me first. I can't expect the repair center to send me one, because they certainly don't have one, and it looks like Pioneer doesn't have any to send me either. I wonder if I would be out of line to raise a little hell with Pioneer asking for a credit towards a new unit, because by the time all the "repairs" get done and I get my original unit back my warranty will be exhausted.

I would politely work w/ Pioneer, from Supervisor to GM, to get a credit either for a new machine.

Good luck,
TP.

...I wonder if I would be out of line to raise a little hell with Pioneer asking for a credit towards a new unit, because by the time all the "repairs" get done and I get my original unit back my warranty will be exhausted.

I agree. Sometimes you have to pester them, but I've also had good luck with their customer service in the past.

If you output 480i through HDMI does the player add some processing to the signal? The reason that I am asking, is that I want to use this player with a lumagen video procesor and don't want the player to add procesing. Or is it better to SDI this player?

Thanks

If you output 480i through HDMI does the player add some processing to the signal? The reason that I am asking, is that I want to use this player with a lumagen video procesor and don't want the player to add procesing. Or is it better to SDI this player?

Thanks
I used both HDMI 480i and SDI, and SDI is a little cleaner. There is some processing going on with SDI as well, and many of the controls (black level, white level, sharpness etc) are still active in SDI mode. Make sure you have the "HDMI Direct" profile loaded if you decide to use SDI. This will results in the least amount of processing. I think the additional cost of SDI is worth the money for the increased PQ.

480i signal is untouched and allows the processor to convert it. sdi is for machines such as denon that do not do 480i. sdi allows them to do this. your 59 comes from the factory with the ability to do 480i so you don't need sdi.

I used both HDMI 480i and SDI, and SDI is a little cleaner. There is some processing going on with SDI as well, and many of the controls (black level, white level, sharpness etc) are still active in SDI mode. Make sure you have the "HDMI Direct" profile loaded if you decide to use SDI. This will results in the least amount of processing. I think the additional cost of SDI is worth the money for the increased PQ.

Carl, what is the cost? Sorry if this has been answered before...I have CRS.

Mark

480i signal is untouched and allows the processor to convert it. sdi is for machines such as denon that do not do 480i. sdi allows them to do this. your 59 comes from the factory with the ability to do 480i so you don't need sdi.
Not true, there is processing of the 480i signal as well. I can clearly see this in an A/B comparision between 480i over HDMI and SDI on the exact same player. There are also much more pixel cropping over HDMI than over SDI. However, if you want to go the SDI route, a cheaper player may work just as well.

Carl, what is the cost? Sorry if this has been answered before...I have CRS.

Mark
Between $400 and $500 are the prices I have seen quoted for the SDI modification. Lumagen did mine, and I'm very pleased with their service.

Between $400 and $500 are the prices I have seen quoted for the SDI modification. Lumagen did mine, and I'm very pleased with their service.

Funny you should mention Lumagen...I just called their support line, and they were very helpful. I have Vidikron VDP-80 processor, which is basically a re-badged Lumagen VisionProHDP.

I wanted to update the software, as Lumagen added inverse-telecine processing for 1080i sources via a firmware update. Vidikron said their box couldn't be upgraded, but I thought they were full of it. I wanted to give it a shot, and needed some guidance.

Mark

Carl,

Does the Pioneer's MPEG decoder have the chroma bug? Or is better to look into the pannasonics and sdi mod it?

Thanks,

Carl,

Does the Pioneer's MPEG decoder have the chroma bug? Or is better to look into the pannasonics and sdi mod it?

Thanks,
I haven't seen any CUE for NTSC or PAL content on the 59Avi. Looking at the Avia Pro CUE patterns shows no problems. There is however a slight Y/C delay problem on the red channel over HDMI and SDI. It's easy to compensate for if you have an external scaler, though.

Carl,

I have a friend that sells me a panasonic RP56 which has been sdi mod and it is a little bit cheaper than to SDI mod the pioneer. What will offer me a better picture, the panasonic or the pioneer?

Carl,

I have a friend that sells me a panasonic RP56 which has been sdi mod and it is a little bit cheaper than to SDI mod the pioneer. What will offer me a better picture, the panasonic or the pioneer?
I'm sorry, but I don't know. I have to look at them side by side to be able to tell you. Trying to borrow the RP56 for a week and see if it's a step up from the 59Avi (running HDMI) is all the advice I can give.

gonzalc3 and Carl,

I am trying to research this area myself for an upcommin purchase.

Supposedly, the Pioneer sets use the Mitsubishi MPEG decoder and this decoder according to Secrets publication does contain the chroma bug. However, seeing is believing and I am glad to hear that Carl did not see any disturbing artifacts. I own an earlier Pioneer set myself.

cheers :)

gonzalc3 and Carl,

I am trying to research this area myself for an upcommin purchase.

Supposedly, the Pioneer sets use the Mitsubishi MPEG decoder and this decoder according to Secrets publication does contain the chroma bug. However, seeing is believing and I am glad to hear that Carl did not see any disturbing artifacts. I own an earlier Pioneer set myself.

cheers :)
Yes, I've read that it actually has the 3-2 alternating flag CUE problem. However, I don't have any source material that's flagged like that. I think it mainly affects Disney animation that's created using an old MPEG encoder. For standard film and video content, you should be OK.

Itipag,

After learning the hard way, the best posible image could be obtained by using a dvd player that has a CUE free MPEG decoder with sdi plug into an external video procesor.

hi is any one here a fan of Pink Floyd ? For the last Pulse Live DVD,

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BTC5LW/ref=pd_sim_d_1/103-2304259-4975857?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130

It seems my pio can't read the 640k DD5.1 track. I get nothing through the 59txi iLink. Can any one try ? Thanks.

My 59AVi will not decode the 640k DD bitstream either. MY Panny DVR will however.

hi is any one here a fan of Pink Floyd ? For the last Pulse Live DVD,

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BTC5LW/ref=pd_sim_d_1/103-2304259-4975857?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130

It seems my pio can't read the 640k DD5.1 track. I get nothing through the 59txi iLink. Can any one try ? Thanks.

I wonder if the 79avi has problems with the Pluse DVD as well. I can borrow the disc from a friend, I am curious if it is a limitation with the i-link connection. Did you try the optical/coaxial output?

Bill

I tried coaxial and the analog output. On the on screen display it showed the time of the disc, but no audio codec. Its pretty strange since the 59 will play almost everything else.

I've had my 59avi for a couple of years... the firmware version is 1.306. I called three different shops to upgrade the firmware... They are clueless! I live in Austin, Texas. Where can I get a disc to upgrade the firmware? Any ideas? Thanks...

I've had my 59avi for a couple of years... the firmware version is 1.306. I called three different shops to upgrade the firmware... They are clueless! I live in Austin, Texas. Where can I get a disc to upgrade the firmware? Any ideas? Thanks...

There is no disk. Unit must be sent to Pioneer to have the firmware upgraded.

Mike

There is no disk. Unit must be sent to Pioneer to have the firmware upgraded.

Mike

I'm not a 59AVi owner, but I do own a 563a. I remember the same claim being made for the 563a, "the player must be sent back to Pioneer in order to perform the firmware upgrade". Eventually though, the firmware made it's way to the web, and I updated mine with a CD.

I'm not saying that Mike is incorrect about the 59AVi firmware, I'd just question the info from Pioneer. My guess is that they prefer to have these updates done at an authorized service center to avoid any hassle/issues/questions from owners who do the update themselves.

I'm not a 59AVi owner, but I do own a 563a. I remember the same claim being made for the 563a, "the player must be sent back to Pioneer in order to perform the firmware upgrade". Eventually though, the firmware made it's way to the web, and I updated mine with a CD.

I'm not saying that Mike is incorrect about the 59AVi firmware, I'd just question the info from Pioneer. My guess is that they prefer to have these updates done at an authorized service center to avoid any hassle/issues/questions from owners who do the update themselves.

I, too was told by Pioneer that the unit must be sent to them for F/W update.
They also told me that there wss no undate available for my player, even though
I can see on the web that this is not true, so I believe a little fib is not beneath
them.

Questions, though... How and where would I get the upgrade to my unit? What
format should the CD be?

-- Ron

I can see on the web that this is not true, so I believe a little fib is not beneath
them.
-- Ron

Where have you seen this? I have looked but couldn't find anything on the web. I have seen over in the 79avi forum that the 79 is the first 'Pioneer Elite' player that could be updated with a CD. But they say you also have to have a 'special remote' to do that upgrade.

Mike

Where have you seen this? I have looked but couldn't find anything on the web. I have seen over in the 79avi forum that the 79 is the first 'Pioneer Elite' player that could be updated with a CD. But they say you also have to have a 'special remote' to do that upgrade.

Mike

My post stated "They also told me that there was no update available for
my player, even though I can see on the web that this is not true". What I
saw on the web was the last F/W version, which was later than my own
F/W.

Clearer now?

-- Ron

What I
saw on the web was the last F/W version, which was later than my own
F/W.

Clearer now?

-- Ron

I think he's asking for a link to that info.

I think the latest f/w I've heard of is 1.526? (Earlier in this thread.)

Hi
I am looking at a used 59 with a build date of 10/04
Anything I should look out for on that old of a build date

Any factory tweaks/upgrades after then?

Thanks

It bothered why it wasn't working properly and I finally figured it out. I didn't unplug the Elite plasma while connecting the hdmi to the media receiver. I tested & replicated the problem everytime under stand-by mode. Now I can let it rest ;-)

Cheers,
TP.
Hi
I have a used 59 on the way to hook up with my 930HD plasma.
So, unplug the panel from the Media Box before pluging in the 59 to the Media Box via HDMI or just power down?
Any recommendations on settings for the 59 --> Elite Plasmas?
480i out to the media box?

Thanks

I got a 59AVi today as a demo unit. I am VERY happy thus far. I was returning a brand new Denon 2930CI unit that died within 24 hours. It was a total piece of crap compared to the Pio. Be glad that you invested your money in this player!

How does the Pioneer picture quality compare to the 2930ci you tried out?

You probably saw my post in the 2930ci thread, but I wasn't impressed with Denon for the money.

How does the Pioneer picture quality compare to the 2930ci you tried out?

You probably saw my post in the 2930ci thread, but I wasn't impressed with Denon for the money.

Well I've only had it a few hours but I'm really happy at this point that the Denon broke. I got 250 bucks back plus I got what appears to be a better player (certainly seems more solid even though its a demo with some scratches).

Make sure you go back in this thread and lookup how to properly set up the player to get correct video levels.

larry

Make sure you go back in this thread and lookup how to properly set up the player to get correct video levels.

larry

Thanks Larry, I sure will. Looks like the guys at Tweeter have already played with it since it was already in Auto2 mode but I'll check it all again.

On my 59avi, DVD+R DL disks play fine, but when the film gets to the layer change the player freezes. You can continue playing only by advancing to the next chapter and then rewinding to just after the layer change.

Disk authored using DVD Decrypter from an iso file.

I was experiencing the exact same problem burning from Zulu2 and and a Video TS folder. I then tried burning from Nero 7 with the same Video TS folder and no more freezing at the layer change. Guess older software that is no longer being updated (ie., Zulu2, DVD Decrypter) has issues burning Dual Layer discs correctly?

I just saw that Pioneer no longer has the 59AVi up on their web site. I thought they offered both the 79AVi and the 59AVi for a while. But the 45a is *still* there. :)

Kevin and All,
You can still find the 59AVi on the Pioneer website by selecting Support; Search by Product = Blu-Ray Disc & DVD & click View Models. Next to Elite DVD Players select View Older Models; then select DV-59AVi from the list. Here's the direct link:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/support/details/0,,2076_310070390_30442807,00.html

Can they hide it any better? :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Doug

But I think they don't make new ones anymore.

One person said in the 79AVi thread that that machine has been discontinued too. But I don't believe that. But if it is true, maybe they should have kept on making the 59AVi. You know, with its better video performance. ;)

Can somebody tell me if I select 'Direct' on the Video Adjust, is there any way I can see the detail of its settings(e.g. Contrast, Brightness etc.). Will the Pure Cinema Mode be on 'Auto 2' if I have it on 'Direct' ???

Plus, is 'Direct' a good mode to select, if I just want to calibrate the projector alone ??

Thanks.

Any comment ???

"Direct" is a good setting, but you will need to go in and select "Auto2" manually. Select "Memory 1", "Detailed Setting", "Recall Settings->Direct", "PureCinema Auto2" and you should be all set.

Thanks Carl n will do that tonight after work. :) :) :)

However, does that mean 'Direct' n 'Memory 1' are the same thing ? Since I did notice the picture did not blink when I switched from Direct to Memory 1, but it did when I switched from Memory 1 to Memory 2. If yes, why do they have 1 mode in 2 different names.

Thanks again for your assistance !!!

Memory 1/2/3 are user customizable and can be set any which way you like. When you select Memory 1, you can choose to base it on another setting. If you do this by doing "Recall Settings" and choosing "Direct", you will copy all the setting in the Direct mode into Memory 1, making them visible. Not sure what the default settings are for Memory 1 from the factory...

Thanks Carl n will do that tonight after work. :) :) :)

However, does that mean 'Direct' n 'Memory 1' are the same thing ? Since I did notice the picture did not blink when I switched from Direct to Memory 1, but it did when I switched from Memory 1 to Memory 2. If yes, why do they have 1 mode in 2 different names.

Thanks again for your assistance !!!

Hi Carl,

Thanks for your comment. However, when I tried it last night, the 'Direct' word just went dim on the 'Recall Setting' after I switched from Auto 1 to Auto 2. Is it suppose to be like that ?

Later on, when I check back to Memory 1 n recall 'Direct', I saw the Pure Cinema mode was still on Auto 1.

Thanks again for your time.

Hi Carl,

Thanks for your comment. However, when I tried it last night, the 'Direct' word just went dim on the 'Recall Setting' after I switched from Auto 1 to Auto 2. Is it suppose to be like that ?

Later on, when I check back to Memory 1 n recall 'Direct', I saw the Pure Cinema mode was still on Auto 1.

Thanks again for your time.
Yes, that's the way it's supposed to be. Once you make a change after recalling "Direct", you will no longer be in "Direct" mode. You will be in a modified "Direct" mode with Auto2 selected, saved in Memory 1. No futher changes are needed at that time, don't do "recall Direct" again, since you will switch back to Auto1. It's all good.

Hi Carl,

Noted your comment n I fully understand it now. I should just select Memory 1 n no need to recall Direct again.

On the side, do you think the 59avi is worth keeping until the HDdvd or Blu-ray is more mature. Or should I get something like the 79avi, or Marantz 9600 or the new Denon ? I am only interest in picture quality n don't care much about the sound.

Thanks again for your valuable input.

Hi Carl,

Noted your comment n I fully understand it now. I should just select Memory 1 n no need to recall Direct again.

On the side, do you think the 59avi is worth keeping until the HDdvd or Blu-ray is more mature. Or should I get something like the 79avi, or Marantz 9600 or the new Denon ? I am only interest in picture quality n don't care much about the sound.

Thanks again for your valuable input.
My plan is to keep the 59Avi for SD DVD, since I pair it with an external scaler. I will pick up HD-DVD and Bluray players when the technology is getting a little more stable, but I don't expect to use those players for SD DVD. For optimal SD picture quality, you should consider an external scaler, and perhaps an SDI modification of the 59Avi.

Carl - why would you suggest an SDI mod when the 59 already does 480i over HDMI ? You can run it directly to the scaler with no further mods (as I see you are doing).

Is there further benefit to doing the SDI mod to this machine?

With HDdvd n Blu-ray coming any minute, I rather save my money for them than on an external scaler. However, some expert here did tell me that the Hitachi HD player did process SD dvd much better than the regular SD players. Is it correct ?

I think the reason for a SDI mod on 59 was because the 59 did send out processed 480i n not raw 480i like the SDI transmission.

With HDdvd n Blu-ray coming any minute, I rather save my money for them than on an external scaler. However, some expert here did tell me that the Hitachi HD player did process SD dvd much better than the regular SD players. Is it correct ?

I think the reason for a SDI mod on 59 was because the 59 did send out processed 480i n not raw 480i like the SDI transmission.
That's correct, 480i over HDMI is not as clean as 480i over SDI. However, I'm not sure that the SDI output is completely clean either, since most controls in the Video setup still affect the picture. That said, it looks better than HDMI (not that the HDMI signal is bad, far from it!).

Just returned a 79AVi and went back to my 59AVi. Much nicer picture and no annoying quirks that the 79AVi had. I can see now why it was reduced in MSRP and why the 59 is a true classic piece.

Just returned a 79AVi and went back to my 59AVi. Much nicer picture and no annoying quirks that the 79AVi had. I can see now why it was reduced in MSRP and why the 59 is a true classic piece.

:)

I do think the 59avi will go down as one of the better universal players in its price class.

:)

I do think the 59avi will go down as one of the better universal players in its price class.

There've been very few classics like the RP91 and RP82 and the 59 will be right there along with them.

There've been very few classics like the RP91 and RP82 and the 59 will be right there along with them.

Couldn't agree more!

The PR91 and 82's still fetch decent money too.

I have had a 59AVi for a while. At the same time that I really like it, I have also been looking to see if any other player could compete with it for my "last, best" SD player. I have dismissed a lot of other players in the last year or so, in some cases, much more expensive, for a lot of reasons: lip sync issues, no remaining time functions, worse video, macro blocking, etc. Bottom line? I still have my tried and true 59AVi. :)

To be honest, I am thinking more and more I'll just hold on to this guy until such time that there's a next generation universal player that can play all the formats the 59AVi can, plus HD DVD and Blu-ray. Obviously, it might be a while before that happens.

Keven, that's certainly what I'm going to do. I can't see any signficant improvement one can get with a 'conventional' upconverting player. It will certainly keep me happy until I'm comfortable with going to HD DVD/Bluray.

It's nice to be part of such a happy family!

;)

It's nice to be part of such a happy family!

;)


Just seems to be one of the rare times where a piece just all came together almost perfectly. I have zero complaints and like Kevin I've TRIED to upgrade it but nothing comes close.

I had 1 of those Nov. 2003 unit n never get a firmware upgrade. Do you guys think it is necessary ? If yes, where to get it now. Thanks a million.

You have to send it back to Pio for a firmware upgrade.

But at the same time, no one has ever come up with any meaningful info as to what exactly has been updated in each upgrade. My opinion is that the 59AVi came out of the shoot relatively "clean" to begin with. If you had some specific problem that you think could be solved by an f/w upgrade, I'd say go and do it. You could also try to call Pioneer and see what they say too.

Thanks for the info. Will contact Pioneer Hong Kong n see what they say.

I just knocked the Denon 3930 off my list. Looks to have a fan (also mentioned in the thread here on AVS):

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2006/IFA_2006/cr/denon_dvd_2930_3930_ifa.shtml

I won't buy amplifiers with fans, and I'm not going to change that with a DVD player. :)

I won't buy amplifiers with fans, and I'm not going to change that with a DVD player. :)

agreed! wonder they managed to do it without fan in the 5910 but not in 3930 ? (maybe the 5910 uses dvdo chip for scaling so less work for the Realta chip to do).

the fan is indeed ugly! and the openning at the back can even get dust in ! :eek:

I just knocked the Denon 3930 off my list. Looks to have a fan (also mentioned in the thread here on AVS):

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2006/IFA_2006/cr/denon_dvd_2930_3930_ifa.shtml

I won't buy amplifiers with fans, and I'm not going to change that with a DVD player. :)

Does this mean that you won't be buying an HD-DVD player?

;)

I have had a 59AVi for a while. At the same time that I really like it, I have also been looking to see if any other player could compete with it for my "last, best" SD player. I have dismissed a lot of other players in the last year or so, in some cases, much more expensive, for a lot of reasons: lip sync issues, no remaining time functions, worse video, macro blocking, etc. Bottom line? I still have my tried and true 59AVi. :)

To be honest, I am thinking more and more I'll just hold on to this guy until such time that there's a next generation universal player that can play all the formats the 59AVi can, plus HD DVD and Blu-ray. Obviously, it might be a while before that happens.

I've never used the 59Avi, but the Denon 2930CI is outstanding. All in all, it's a bit better than the Toshiba HD-A1 for SD output which is saying a lot.

I've never used the 59Avi, but the Denon 2930CI is outstanding. All in all, it's a bit better than the Toshiba HD-A1 for SD output which is saying a lot.

Well, I can tell you that I have had both. I bought the Denon 2930CI brand new and it worked for only 1 day and then died. I took it back to Tweeter and they had an old demo 59Avi lying around for dirt cheap and I've been using it since and it's been flawless. I should have known better to have bought the Denon, my previous DVD player was a Marantz DV7600 and I ended up giving it away to Goodwill b/c it was a piece of crap too. My first DV7600 was DOA and my second had major HDMI issues and overheated in a completely open stand. I've pretty much got a life time ban on D+M products since I've owned 3 and they all broke and I'm pretty thrilled that a Pioneer DVD player laying around a store without a box would work so great.

Well, I can tell you that I have had both. I bought the Denon 2930CI brand new and it worked for only 1 day and then died. I took it back to Tweeter and they had an old demo 59Avi lying around for dirt cheap and I've been using it since and it's been flawless. I should have known better to have bought the Denon, my previous DVD player was a Marantz DV7600 and I ended up giving it away to Goodwill b/c it was a piece of crap too. My first DV7600 was DOA and my second had major HDMI issues and overheated in a completely open stand. I've pretty much got a life time ban on D+M products since I've owned 3 and they all broke and I'm pretty thrilled that a Pioneer DVD player laying around a store without a box would work so great.

I'll second that. Every denon product I've owned had some serious
problems -- both design and implementation issues. My AVP-8000 is
a second unit. They replaced it after they couldn't fix the first one in
two separate attempts. I currently use it as a tuner and laser disc
RF demodulator.

A POA-8002 amplifier lay useless for 3 months due to a bad RCA
phono connector (my fault) that they couldn't supply until I wrote
a heart-to-heart letter to the president of the company in Japan.

I bought a DVD-3800 that had lousy video out of the box. They
supplied me with a F/W unpdate disk that fixed that, after several
weeks of an unbelievable hassle. A year later it started to fail, as
did three pathetic attempts at repairing it. They finally gave me
my money back.

I will never buy a Denon product again. Denon people didn't answer
phone calls and didn't follow up on promises. Their idea of solving a
problem was to ignore the complaining customer. The equipment
seemed to have great potential, that somehow didn't materialize,
though it did sound and look good (if/when it worked).

-- Ron

Does this mean that you won't be buying an HD-DVD player?

;)

Nope. ;) And not until they fix the 720/768p output issue too. And add DVD-A and SACD and Blu-ray support too. :D

Sometimes I forget this because it's one of those things easy to take for granted, but my 59AVi has never failed to play a CD-R and I've seen issues with that on the Denons too. I need to keep that in mind for my next player.

I directly compared the 3910 and the 59AVi. They were close. But it really came down to my familiarity with Pio players in the past (414, 333, 05, 45a, 47Ai up to that time), and Denon's track record with reliability. And before any Denon owners out there say, "I've had Denon player XX for YY years, and I've never had a problem with it," I'm not talking about individual data points. If you truly read all the Denon and Pio AVS posts with an open mind, Pio wins on QC and reliability and firmware issues. There are some things the 3910 does better than the 59AVi, but there are others where the 59AVi wins.

But talking about individual data points... A buddy I work with has a 2900. His machine is now starting not to recognize all the discs he throws at it. ;)

Nope. ;) And not until they fix the 720/768p output issue too. And add DVD-A and SACD and Blu-ray support too. :D

I guess we can compare notes in about 3 years! :p

Sometimes I forget this because it's one of those things easy to take for granted, but my 59AVi has never failed to play a CD-R and I've seen issues with that on the Denons too. I need to keep that in mind for my next player.

I directly compared the 3910 and the 59AVi. They were close.

I compared them too. As well as an Onkyo SP1000. The Onkyo and the 59avi were very close. So close that you would definitely not be able to tell a difference without doing direct A/B comparisons.

The Denon wasn't so close. It was somewhat softer, and the colors were off a lot compared to the Onkyo and Elite. Tweaking the player didn't help either.


But it really came down to my familiarity with Pio players in the past (414, 333, 05, 45a, 47Ai up to that time), and Denon's track record with reliability. And before any Denon owners out there say, "I've had Denon player XX for YY years, and I've never had a problem with it," I'm not talking about individual data points. If you truly read all the Denon and Pio AVS posts with an open mind, Pio wins on QC and reliability and firmware issues. There are some things the 3910 does better than the 59AVi, but there are others where the 59AVi wins.

But talking about individual data points... A buddy I work with has a 2900. His machine is now starting not to recognize all the discs he throws at it. ;)

I have been very happy with the reliability of the 59avi to be sure. I do have issues playing certain DVD-R's, but that issue has been there since day one.

The Denon wasn't so close. It was somewhat softer, and the colors were off a lot compared to the Onkyo and Elite. Tweaking the player didn't help either.


I agree. The Denon 3910's color is very different from the pio. Those who like it say "it's very smooth"; those who don't say "it's very dull". I personally think the pio color is always somehow "clearer/sharper" than the Denon's (as in, the Denon's always give me a feeling there are too much makeup in the face. too smooth)



I have been very happy with the reliability of the 59avi to be sure.

For this, in this region Denon already had a "solid" reputation of being picky on the media. It's not even surprising a new Denon player refuses to play xxx disc. We already accepted that as a fact. :rolleyes:

You are so generous to say the 3910 is 'very dull' n I will put it as 'very grainy'.

When I demo'd the 3910 earlier in the year (against the Sony 9100ES), I prefered the colors on the Sony. The color on the Denon just looked a little dry - saturation was missing it seemed - despite DVE color decoding and shutting off two CRTs as a time to calibrate color/tint. (The new 2930 is much better in this regard.) All in all, I prefered Sony for upconversion. Besides the colors, the Sony looked more filmlike. I will say the 3910 was razor sharp at 480p component, but still had slightly faded looking color.

If Sony did a universal player.... Sigh. :)

Hey Kevin, I saw your letter in WSR today. Dude, you are famous! ;)

I just bought a Sony 50E2000 for my bedroom. Downstairs I have a 60" GWIII with a 59avi hooked up to it. I have always liked the 59avi (although I seem to have issues getting it to playback in 4:3 and instead get a stretched picture).

I can't decide if buying another 59avi (used for $500) is the right way to go for the bedroom or should I wait and buy an HD/Blu-Ray for my main room and put the 59avi in the bedroom. I am not willing to wait on the HD/Blu-Ray if it isn't going to be mainstream for 6-9 months.

Thoughts? Opinions?

You may want to wait. It will be interesting to see how well the Blu-ray Pioneer Elite player will upscale SD DVD compared to the 59Avi (of course, it will be at a much higher cost). If the current HD players are an indication, it should be quite good especially considering their Blu-ray player should be top notch.

Hey Kevin, I saw your letter in WSR today. Dude, you are famous! ;)

I still don't have my copy yet. :( I'll be curious how much of my original email ended up print, and if Gary "spins" it somehow. ;) Sometimes, he is an HD fanboy to a fault. (HD-VHS anyone? or whatever that stillborn format was...)

I still don't have my copy yet. :( I'll be curious how much of my original email ended up print, and if Gary "spins" it somehow. ;) Sometimes, he is an HD fanboy to a fault. (HD-VHS anyone? or whatever that stillborn format was...)

Actually he said you made a lot of good points!

Hey, I still love my D-Theater deck and tapes! :)

Hee, hee. :)

Over the last few years I have tried to search on the internet for more info on this player and plasma, but have not got anywhere as I was using the UK model codes. I found this thread by accident!

I am in the UK and have a Pioneer DV868 Avi which I have owned for nearly 3 years having purchased this player together with the Pioneer PDP-504HDE 50" plasma and PDP-R04E media player. I have the units working together with a HDMI connection and have always felt that the image quality, although very good, could be improved with a little adjustment. Its just knowing what to adjust!

I have seen some of the posts that describe the process of optimising the DVD players output to give a full 0-255 signal range for each R,G,B chanel and enhanced blacks, and want to know if this is appropriate for my system with the Pioneer plasma - it would also be great if anyone knew of any other settings on the plasma that can be used to improve the quality with the HDMI setting. I do see lines and digital artefacts on the screen, esp. when viewing animations with fast moving content.

I would also love to know if there are any known "tweaks" for this DVD player.

Thank you for your help with this in advance.....

This maybe a question that has been asked before.

Is there a firmware upgrade or any other way to get sound out of the HDMI jack or to version 1.1 ???

Thanks.

I get sound out with HDMI. I have to turn my plasma's volume down every time I watch a DVD. :)

Hi Kevin,

i thought the HDMI version on 59 was 1.0, which is video only. Did you upgrade it to 1.1 ? If yes, how ???

Plus, the sound you get now is 2-channel or multi-channel ?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

59AVi was/is :) 1.1. I actually don't know of any 1.0 devices.

I didn't do anything special. In fact, it took me a while to figure out why my sound was so screwed up the first time I got the HDMI video working. I.e., I had sound coming out of the plasma's speakers and my audio setup. The audio setup was slightly delayed vs the plasma (the addition of TA, BM, etc), and there was a small echo/reverb effect. I don't know if MC vs stereo. I don't have an MC audio device that accepts HDMI.

What do you have the Pio hooked up to? I do know that some displays don't accept the audio portion. And some pre/pros don't either.

I am currently using an old Sony AV receiver n planning to get the latest Pioneer one that accept 1.2 HDMI input. I am just wondering if I will be able to get MC sound out from 59 thru HDMI.

It looks like I have to bring the unit to a Pioneer dealer to try that out, unless somebody else here can chime in with their experience.

Thanks again for your input.

You should be able to. The Pio is HDMI 1.1. That supports DD/DTS and DVD-A all at 5.1.

Thanks Kevin. Probably the only thing missing is SACD from 1.1.

That's where 1.2 comes in. ;)

Yes, with a source with HDMI 1.2 specs, but not from the 59. SACD is thru the iLink to a compatible rcvr or pre/pro, or the analog 5.1 connections on this player.

So just for complete understanding. SACD output from the 59AVi is only possible via iLink or 5.1 analog. The 59AVI CANNOT convert SACD to PCM and output via HDMI, correct?

Thanks. I'm considering a used 59AVi and just want to make sure I completely understand it's capabilities.

>> The 59AVI CANNOT convert SACD to PCM and output via HDMI, correct?


I have never heard that it could. Some newer players can though. Supposedly the Arcam DV137 for one.

>> The 59AVI CANNOT convert SACD to PCM and output via HDMI, correct?


I have never heard that it could. Some newer players can though. Supposedly the Arcam DV137 for one.
The Oppo 970HD does also.

larry

I haven't read all the details yet, but go to Pio's home web site, and then on the right side there's a blurb about a lawsuit and Elite players. The 59AVi is in the listed players.

I haven't read all the details yet, but go to Pio's home web site, and then on the right side there's a blurb about a lawsuit and Elite players. The 59AVi is in the listed players.

Interesting. It looks like the lawsuit is for "compatibility" issues in playing DVD-video and/or audio.

Note that to be part of this lawsuit, you must file proof that you sent the player in to have it fixed, including a firmware update, in order to resolve the "incompatibility".

Also, the remedy is only for additional firmware updates, or a voucher for $50.00 good only towards the purchase of another Pioneer product.

The only compatibility issue I have is with DVD-R discs.

I haven't read all the details yet, but go to Pio's home web site, and then on the right side there's a blurb about a lawsuit and Elite players. The 59AVi is in the listed players.

I've skimmed through the verbose file and one of the proposed benefits is a free
F/W update *if available*. So, the first question is whether an update is available
for the DV-59AVi. I already know that there are more recent F/W versions for my
DV-59AVi (purchased in 2004), but do those updates address the incompatibility
issue (skipping etc.) that is the subject of the class action.

Any one knows?

-- Ron

I haven't had any issues with mine. Others who have had problems might have a different opinion, but it seems to me to be yet another spurious lawsuit costing the company a lot of money, most of which goes into the pockets of the lawyers. The actual customers get only a pittance, if anything.

Doug

I haven't had any issues with mine. Others who have had problems might have a different opinion, but it seems to me to be yet another spurious lawsuit costing the company a lot of money, most of which goes into the pockets of the lawyers. The actual customers get only a pittance, if anything.

Doug


While there is certainly a lot of truth to what you say above, let me just play a little devils advocate: if in fact there was a compatibility issue, and Pioneer never addressed it in an appropriate manner, a class action lawsuit is the ONLY way to get a company to ever pay attention to the consumer and the issues with their players.

Large companies would have little or no reason to make sure that their players conform to all of the specs that they advertised it was capable of.

There had to be evidence presented to even prove that there was a "class" of people that were damaged by this common problem, or the class never would have been certified in the first place. It seems that Pioneer has taken some responsibility here, and have agreed to this settlement as a good compromise.

They do give a list of discs that seem to have had problems. I remember Neil Young's Greendale being one of them.

But I've personally never had a playback issue like this on any DVD-A or DVD-V. (But I don't think I tried any that were on their list either.)

But hey, if I can get the latest and greatest firmware, what's not to like? :) I have pretty much resigned (!) myself to the fact that this will be my last universal player until such time as there's a next generation universal with HD DVD *and* Blu-ray in addition to what we already have. And that still might be a year or two off.

OK, I have to admit that this one seems a bit more reasonable and could provide some benefit. I guess I'm a little jaded by more egregious settlements I've been offered. The worst was probably years ago when I had AOL (10-12 years ago?) and the offer was $15.00 due to some vagueness in AOL's hourly billing policy which seemed perfectly clear to me. When I get these settlement offers, they go right in the trash.

On the other hand, it's amazing that these universal players do as much as they're touted to do. The marketing department pushes the engineers and developers to get these models out to market before they've been thoroughly tested. I guess Toshiba is in for the next class action lawsuit because the early HD-DVD adopters had to download and install some firmware upgrades.

Cynical Doug

Hey Doug, I don't blame you for being a bit cynical on this topic. Perfectly understandable!

Hi everyone -- this is my first post to AVS! I bought a Pioneer DV-868AVi (i.e. UK version of 59AVi) in July & am v happy with it. My dealer had one to get rid of & so I got it at a very reasonable price with 2 yr warranty -- much cheaper than the 989AVi / 79AVi would have been. I think it'll tide me over very nicely until the HD format war is settled and universal HD players become affordable. (Remember of course that everything is several months behind over here, and more expensive!)

It's been really interesting reading this thread & getting some ideas for tweaks. I've got a question about CD playback -- sorry if this has been answered earlier but it's a big thread to read :) -- what's the best way to play CD's hooking up to an Arcam AVR300? i.e. use the analogue outs or digital coax? As I understand it, the digital route would involve less conversion of the signal overall, but does anyone have any real-world based views on this?

Thanks,
Iain

ps Am I the last ever person to buy this player (new) or has anyway bought one later than July 06? :)

I have had a 59AVi for a while. At the same time that I really like it, I have also been looking to see if any other player could compete with it for my "last, best" SD player. I have dismissed a lot of other players in the last year or so, in some cases, much more expensive, for a lot of reasons: lip sync issues, no remaining time functions, worse video, macro blocking, etc. Bottom line? I still have my tried and true 59AVi. :)

To be honest, I am thinking more and more I'll just hold on to this guy until such time that there's a next generation universal player that can play all the formats the 59AVi can, plus HD DVD and Blu-ray. Obviously, it might be a while before that happens.

........ what's the best way to play CD's hooking up to an Arcam AVR300? i.e. use the analogue outs or digital coax? As I understand it, the digital route would involve less conversion of the signal overall, but does anyone have any real-world based views on this?

Thanks,
Iain

ps Am I the last ever person to buy this player (new) or has anyway bought one later than July 06? :)

Either digital or analog will involve one conversion. Using a digital
interconnect will do it in the receiver, using analog cables will do it
in the player. Try both and see which sounds better in your setup.
I have both connected. The digital, for listening and the analog, for
recording.

-- Ron

Be careful. :) If you go analog, you could end up with two more unecessary conversions if the receiver converts to digital, and then back to analog to the speakers.

Thanks guys! Since my amp is using bass management, I think it'd convert an analog signal to digital for processing, then back again, as Kevin suggests. I've got Quad 11L fronts which are great but need a sub for really deep bass. For music that doesn't go too deep, I could send analog from the player and put the amp in Direct mode, which bypasses the digital circuitry.

So, questions for research :)
1. Does player or amp have better D/A conversion? (I suspect amp.)
2. Is the player's dig. audio out better than its analog outs?

Anyway, a good excuse for a long listening session at some point!

Iain

Be careful. :) If you go analog, you could end up with two more unecessary conversions if the receiver converts to digital, and then back to analog to the speakers.

Thanks guys! Since my amp is using bass management, I think it'd convert an analog signal to digital for processing, then back again, as Kevin suggests. I've got Quad 11L fronts which are great but need a sub for really deep bass. For music that doesn't go too deep, I could send analog from the player and put the amp in Direct mode, which bypasses the digital circuitry.

So, questions for research :)
1. Does player or amp have better D/A conversion? (I suspect amp.)
2. Is the player's dig. audio out better than its analog outs?

Anyway, a good excuse for a long listening session at some point!

Iain

I use analog for 2ch listening. I set the receiver to Direct for those inputs, so hopefully no conversions occur there.

Iain, the digital output should either work or not; the quality of the wiring and connectors shouldn't matter (I know this is a matter of some dispute). It is just sending the datastream.

I think you'll just have to decide whether you prefer using the DAC in the player or the amp. It's a matter of taste.

Regards,
Doug

Thanks guys! Since my amp is using bass management, I think it'd convert an analog signal to digital for processing, then back again, as Kevin suggests. I've got Quad 11L fronts which are great but need a sub for really deep bass. For music that doesn't go too deep, I could send analog from the player and put the amp in Direct mode, which bypasses the digital circuitry.

So, questions for research :)
1. Does player or amp have better D/A conversion? (I suspect amp.)
2. Is the player's dig. audio out better than its analog outs?

Anyway, a good excuse for a long listening session at some point!

Iain
I have the exact same setup, and in my experience sending the audio analog results in slightly better quality. Don't forget to put the AVR300 in Direct mode to shut down the digital circuitry inside it. I have large speakers, so no need for bass management in my setup. If you need that, you're probably better off with a digitial connection.

I've skimmed through the verbose file and one of the proposed benefits is a free
F/W update *if available*. So, the first question is whether an update is available
for the DV-59AVi. I already know that there are more recent F/W versions for my
DV-59AVi (purchased in 2004), but do those updates address the incompatibility
issue (skipping etc.) that is the subject of the class action.

Any one knows?

-- Ron


I received something an e-mail from Pioneer about the same thing a month or so ago... I haven't had any problems with Disc compatability so far... There are three options you can choose in that lawsuit if you wish to become part of it...

1) Get reimbursed for a FW upgrade you paid for.
2) Be eligible to receive a new FW update free of charge
3) Be compensated if you replaced your DVD player with another one in lieu of these compatability issues. (Maximum $50 reimbursement)

What changes were implemented in firmware releases after the 306?
Is there a website that shows these things?

I have this in on my display :
Region:1 /Ver: 1.306 (16)/AV1: 2.0/ 2.8

What is it after the Version # ?

The later FW updates corrected Y/C delay over HDMI... but I think there was still Y/C delay left over on the component side of things...

Thanks for this thread. On Sunday I bought a floor model DV-59AVi (build date July 2005) with full warranty from Best Buy for $250, it was the last one in the region here. I am using the iLink connection to my receiver. It is an amazing player. DSTOM DVD-A is very clear sounding over iLink. I set the Memory 1 setting to Auto 2, Enhanced and the other adjustments suggested (white = min., black = minus 1 notch from middle). Set the brightness on the TV with Avia. Used the HDMI.

One last thing, should I set the Progressive rate to Slow? Or does it not matter since I am using the 480i through HDMI and letting my display do the upconverts to 1080i.

$250?? Amazing price...


I would leave the progressive motion to the default setting... for 480i output, it probably doesn't matter anyways.

The later FW updates corrected Y/C delay over HDMI... but I think there was still Y/C delay left over on the component side of things...

Nope. Kris tested a unit later on with the latest firmware. Y/C delay is still there for component, never was there for HDMI.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=&manufacturer=30&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0#Pioneer EliteDV-59AVi (HDMI)

The link isn't working, too long maybe, but it's in the text early on in the review.

Nope. Kris tested a unit later on with the latest firmware. Y/C delay is still there for component, never was there for HDMI.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=&manufacturer=30&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0#Pioneer EliteDV-59AVi (HDMI)

The link isn't working, too long maybe, but it's in the text early on in the review.


ahh... never mind then... thanks for the correction. For some reason, I thought the earliest FW may have had the issue on HDMI as well, but I guess not.

$250?? Amazing price...


I would leave the progressive motion to the default setting... for 480i output, it probably doesn't matter anyways.


I don't think it matters too.

I was trying to get them to go lower on the price to $225. My reasoning was that it was a floor model hooked up to a plasma and had been there who knows how long, playing Gladiator over and over. This was not some lightly used unit that only played a few DVD's a week. I had to talk to the general manager to get what I thought was a fair price. It was a clearance item, was 'at risk', last item left in the region, would buy it on the weekend to offset the margin loss, yada yada :)

Now it has a home where it can live a life of relative ease playing a few DVD's a week lol

Excuse me if this is a dumb question, but when I read my owner's manual it says you can only get progressive output with component video connections. HDMI must be able to do this too right?

Excuse me if this is a dumb question, but when I read my owner's manual it says you can only get progressive output with component video connections. HDMI must be able to do this too right?

Yes. 720x480P or 1280x720P.

In manual under Initial Settings menu - HDMI Settings. The manual sucks when referring to HDMI settings - it is spread out over many different sections.

Hi I just filled out my claim form from Pioneer for my DV-59avi for firmware upgrade.
Wright now I have is Ver:1.526(16) /AV1 : 2.0/2.8. Is there any other updates that I am missing? If so will the New firmware update all of them at the same time?
Thank you for the info
Daniel

One more thing. I think when you take the time to Register there product they should tell you when they have software update.

I tried to answer this using the search, hope someone can help. In the Initial Settings Menu, there is an option for audio output mode. If I am running a digital coax cable to my DSP, does it matter whether I set this to 2 channel or 5.1? All of the processing is being done by the DSP. The manual seemed fuzzy on this. Thanks, Kevin

Hi I just filled out my claim form from Pioneer for my DV-59avi for firmware upgrade.
Wright now I have is Ver:1.526(16) /AV1 : 2.0/2.8. Is there any other updates that I am missing? If so will the New firmware update all of them at the same time?
Thank you for the info
Daniel

Daniel, if you search this thread using "1.526" as the search criteria, you will find a discussions about the firmware updates. Basically, we learned that 1.526 is the latest firmware...and there probably won't be any more, I assume. We did find the following anomaly in comparing build dates and firmware versions:

Now, if Jim's is correct and mine is correct, that means they went from 1.506 in March 2005 to 1.526 in June 2005? So 1.516 was only for April or May 2005? Seems strange.

Happy listening.

Mark

I tried to answer this using the search, hope someone can help. In the Initial Settings Menu, there is an option for audio output mode. If I am running a digital coax cable to my DSP, does it matter whether I set this to 2 channel or 5.1? All of the processing is being done by the DSP. The manual seemed fuzzy on this. Thanks, Kevin

Kevin, perhaps they are referring to 2-channel versus 6-channel (5.1) PCM for those discs that have that type of digital soundtrack?

Mark

I tried to answer this using the search, hope someone can help. In the Initial Settings Menu, there is an option for audio output mode. If I am running a digital coax cable to my DSP, does it matter whether I set this to 2 channel or 5.1? All of the processing is being done by the DSP. The manual seemed fuzzy on this. Thanks, Kevin

It would appear that you are correct. The Audio Output Mode selection
is in the Speakers menu and pertains to the analog outputs. It should
have no effect on the digital outputs, that are controlled through the
Digital Audio Out menu.

-- Ron

Thanks Ron, just wanted to be sure I understood. Kevin

Daniel, if you search this thread using "1.526" as the search criteria, you will find a discussions about the firmware updates. Basically, we learned that 1.526 is the latest firmware...and there probably won't be any more, I assume. We did find the following anomaly in comparing build dates and firmware versions:

Now, if Jim's is correct and mine is correct, that means they went from 1.506 in March 2005 to 1.526 in June 2005? So 1.516 was only for April or May 2005? Seems strange.

Happy listening.

Mark
Thank you for your help

Kevin, perhaps they are referring to 2-channel versus 6-channel (5.1) PCM for those discs that have that type of digital soundtrack?

Mark


Thanks as well Mark. I gotta say, I still find the whole digital/analog thing a little confusing sometimes.

Hi all.

I have searched many hours to the web to find and put the new firmware to my pio without any results.

Any suggestions?

What does the new firmware fix ? I have v.1.406

Thanks in advance.

You cannot download firmware and install it yourself. It must be sent back to Pioneer. Latest is 1.526 as stated above and Pioneer does not release info as to what each successive version has added/fixed.

Thanks for the info !!!

Does the digital audio out carry a 24 bit / 96 MHz signal or is it only 16 bit / 44.1 MHz? I would like to use the 59avi as a transport for DVD audio discs but use an external D/A convertor.

The 59AVi can indeed output 24/96. But the disc itself may not allow it.

The 59AVi can indeed output 24/96. But the disc itself may not allow it.

What do you mean that the disc itself may not allow it? I am burning DVD-audios at 24/96.

Some *pre-recorded* DVD-A's will not allow you to pass 24/96 out of the digital output (coax or toslink) even though that is the content on the disc. Copyright stuff.

This is the first problem I have ever experienced with my 59Avi: it does not display English subtitles on "The Da Vinci Code" DVD extended edition while playing scenes with French and Latin conversations. I played with various settings but to no avail. :(
My OPPO 981HD displays them just fine on the same DVD.

Any ideas?

Originally Posted by giomania
Daniel, if you search this thread using "1.526" as the search criteria, you will find a discussions about the firmware updates. Basically, we learned that 1.526 is the latest firmware...and there probably won't be any more, I assume. We did find the following anomaly in comparing build dates and firmware versions:
Now, if Jim's is correct and mine is correct, that means they went from 1.506 in March 2005 to 1.526 in June 2005? So 1.516 was only for April or May 2005? Seems strange.
Happy listening.

Mark

OK I just got in the mail from Pioneer was a shipping label and a local address if I would like to get my player firmware updated. so I guess this is a new update for this player.

OK I just got in the mail from Pioneer was a shipping label and a local address if I would like to get my player firmware updated. so I guess this is a new update for this player.

Awesome! I did not receive anything in the mail, but maybe I didn't send in the warranty card? I do not recall. Are you going to have it updated? If so, please report back here what the firmware version is. If you really want to make us happy, see if you can talk to a technician and ask them what issues the firmware update addresses.

I believe this is related to the class action lawsuit reported in the DV-79avi owners thread. Here is that post:

Originally Posted by mafoo
Did anyone else get this notice?. I haven't had a particular problem w/ my 59AVi, but evidently Pioneer is required to give out a free firmware upgrade or a voucher for some kind of artifacts.

Important: Notice To Purchasers of Pioneer/Elite DVD Players
Pioneer has provisionally settled nationwide class action lawsuits alleging compatibility/playability problems with Pioneer DVD Players. According to our records, the Pioneer DVD Player that you registered with us (DV-59AVi) is an affected model.
This means that you may be a "Class Member" and may be entitled to a benefit under the settlement. To learn more, please review the attached official Notice of Settlement And Hearing (the "Notice"). The Notice was authorized by a California court.

The Notice is also available for viewing on Pioneer's main website at www.pioneerelectronics.com.

Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc.

Last, it would be nice to if the repair center is a national warranty service center that we should all send our players to.

Mark

Mark I will be sending it for the update. I will give All of you all the info on it when I get the Player back.
Daniel

I keep being on the fence about the firmware upgrade. I'm pretty sure I have 1.526, and I've never had any problem playing any DVDs, CDs, SACDs, or DVD-As. But Daniel, please let us know what the rev is when you get yours back. :)

OK I called the company who is going to do the update. They told me that Pioneer has not sent them the firmware so they do not know what the update is but I was told to call back on Friday and they hope to tell me then.

Folks, just picked up a new 59AVi. One of the reasons I got it was that I was on the AVS forum a few weeks ago and stumbled across a complete list of settings for the player in a single place. Now that I have the player, I've searched the forum up and down and I cannot seem to find it again. Can anyone point me to the post with the preferred 59AVi settings?

Thanks.

Folks, just picked up a new 59AVi. One of the reasons I got it was that I was on the AVS forum a few weeks ago and stumbled across a complete list of settings for the player in a single place. Now that I have the player, I've searched the forum up and down and I cannot seem to find it again. Can anyone point me to the post with the preferred 59AVi settings?

Thanks.

Check out the very first post of this thread. I think most of the info you seek is there.

Mark

Folks, just picked up a new 59AVi. One of the reasons I got it was that I was on the AVS forum a few weeks ago and stumbled across a complete list of settings for the player in a single place. Now that I have the player, I've searched the forum up and down and I cannot seem to find it again. Can anyone point me to the post with the preferred 59AVi settings?

Thanks.

Guess what... I finally received Pioneer's authorization for the free F/W update and
called the service dealer. Turns out they need specific cables to do the update, that
Pioneer hasn't supplied them with as yet. I should call them again in a month.

For some reasons, I suspect this job is not very high on Pioneer's 'Things To Do'
list :-)

-- Ron

Guess what... I finally received Pioneer's authorization for the free F/W update and
called the service dealer. Turns out they need specific cables to do the update, that
Pioneer hasn't supplied them with as yet. I should call them again in a month.

For some reasons, I suspect this job is not very high on Pioneer's 'Things To Do'
list :-)

-- Ron

I am not surprised, given they are being forced to do this for a product no longer in production.

Mark

Wow, haven't been here in a while... I bought my 59avi about 2 years ago and have not used it yet. Maybe 3 times or so. lol That's a shame, huh? Yesterday, I read some old pages here and got motivated to re-connect the player with the HDMI cable, as I had been using it for my cable TV/DVR box. Now I will make it a point to use the player instead of my other Pioneer Elite 301 disk player for watching movies.


Yeah, while I was waiting, the whole HD DVD thing happened ... lol


So is this still a good player to be using or is it "old news" now? I don't mean to put it up against the HD players, but just the regular DVD players? I did have the latest firware when I purchased it.

Honestly, I may have gotten discouraged when I bought a ton of SACD and DVD disks, only to find out they're not as common as originally expected.


I should dust off some boxes.

thanks for the thread! Great input here.

cissado: I think most people consider the 59avi still one of the best dvd players around; I believe that most people prefer it to its successor the 79avi. It's free of any macroblocking problem that exist with Faroudja based players, and it is also able to output 480i over HDMI if you have a video processor you wish to feed the unaltered dvd signal. Of course I wouldn't buy one for $600, as I did a couple of years ago, but if anyone finds one for a good price, it's still an excellent choice if you want to why a year or so for the HD/BD format business to settle out.

cissado: I think most people consider the 59avi still one of the best dvd players around; I believe that most people prefer it to its successor the 79avi. It's free of any macroblocking problem that exist with Faroudja based players, and it is also able to output 480i over HDMI if you have a video processor you wish to feed the unaltered dvd signal. Of course I wouldn't buy one for $600, as I did a couple of years ago, but if anyone finds one for a good price, it's still an excellent choice if you want to why a year or so for the HD/BD format business to settle out.



Yes, that's what I was thinking re the HD players. I'm in no rush, really. As evidenced by my current 2 year layoff. lol

I only have a 1080i TV (65 inch) 65h84 Toshiba RP HDTV. Ehh, not bad, but when I do get a new 1080P TV, then I'll worry about the new HD players.

I also have the 59avi connected with analog audio for surround disks. So I may break those disks out and try them again.

I have a Paradigm set up with Studio series v2 40's Servo 15 sub, CC... I should use it more often. I think having kids pushed things on the back burner quite a bit. lol

Thanks again, good info here. I alwyas stop by here for the latest opinions and facts.


Oh yeah, I got my system calibrated by Eliab of Avical. Great job. I may need a recalibration, as it was 2 years ago and I think the kids messed with the presets. ARGGG!

It's all good.

Thank you!! keep it up!

cissado: I now have a Mits 1080p rptv and send it a 1080i output from the 59avi via HDMI. Soon, though, I will be replacing the Mits with a RS1 1080p projector, which has a built-in Gennum processor. I am planning to send the RS1 a 480i signal out of the 59avi, also over HDMI; i.e., I'm assuming the the Gennum will handle the up-scaling, de-interlacing, etc., better than the 59avi, though I can certainly compare this with outputting 1080i from the 59avi.

Anyway, I'm planning to stay with this player for at least another year or so.

millerwill,
Just to make sure: You've seen the previous posts here that documents what needs to be done to get correct 480i via HDMI out of the 59avi? It was RGB output but I have a hard time believing that YCbCr would be "perfect" at neutral settings given that issues that Carl found. I don't recall if the 59avi outputs YCbCr or not. Anyway, you can always get a Oppo 970HD and $150 is not going to break the bank.

larry

Larry: No, I don't remember this issue; will have to check back. Thanks for the heads up. Bill

Folks,

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but here goes. I set up my home theater a couple of years ago. The main components, a Pioneer 47TX receiver and DV-37 DVD. I calibrated the surround sound with the 47TX's internal generation. Everying was balanced. However movies never quite sounded as powerful as my cheap Dolby Pro system upstairs. I was just playing around with the THX Optimizer a couple of weeks ago and discovered that although all the channels (including the sub) were balanced when using the internal generator, there was almost no bass off the DVD. I ended up increasing the bass level considerably in the receiver to get it balanced. The whole family said that it was finally the way they remembered it should sound. Skip to the present. I just recently picked up a new DV-59. Hooked it all up and I'm back to square one. It has the same diminished bass level off of DVDs as the DV-37 but worse. There is almost no bass even with the bass level cranked all the way up in the receiver. The DVD is connected via glass fiber cable. The Sub is a M&K V1250 in full THX mode. My question is 1) Why would the DVD have so much less bass then the internal generator, and 2) why would the bass level differ so much from one player to the next? Is there any internal setting on the DV-59 to compensate for this?

Thanks.

It has been more than three weeks and Pioneer still has not ship out the update to the shop who is going to do the update for me.

It has been more than three weeks and Pioneer still has not ship out the update to the shop who is going to do the update for me.

Same here. I called the shop the same day I got Pioneer's authorization to
update the F/W. The shop stated that they are waiting for the necessary
cables and to call again 'in a couple of weeks'.

When I called again, they said the cables were actually for a receiver and
they had no idea what the DVD player required and to call again in another
week.

When I called the next week, I was told to call again in another week. A
week later, their phone line was connected to a FAX machine (no, really!).
I called the next day and they said they still had no clue, but will contact
Pioneer tech support, however Pioneer's tech support takes a week to
respond.

I brought it in anyway, because I was going to be near there. Otherwise,
it's a 45 mile drive for me. (BTW, Pioneer's authorization was good for 30
days and these are gone, but the shop said this was not important and
don't worry about it).

This shop has done work for me before and I have every confidence in
them. It all feels like Pioneer Tech is running a Mickey Mouse operation.
I have the service manual and can't find a single word about a F/W
update procedure...

-- Ron

I feel your pain

I would try to talk to Pio customer service/tech support directly just to see what they'd say. One other option might be to look through the addresses in the settlement deal, and actually try to talk to the lawyers, and see if they could put any pressure on Pio. (I know, I know ... ;) ) Doesn't do any good if Pio agreed to the deal but no one can actually get their players updated.

I feel your pain

LOL... I've endured worse... After dealing with Integra Research
I am one hardened individual :-) .

I am going to let the service shop deal with this for a couple of
weeks (or three or four) before escalating to Pioneer Customer
Service, the class action lawyer and/or the US Marines...

I'll post updates as they become available.

-- Ron

False Contouring & 720p cropping

I've used the 59AVi w/ an old 32" CRT for a few years, but just moved up to a Panasonic plasma (TH-42PX600U) a month ago. I'm hoping someone might have some insight on these two problems:

1) I see false contouring on most DVDs where the image encourages it. By that I mean: fadeouts, sunrise/sunsets, walls w/ gradually deepening shadows. Examples: The Illusionist, The Descent, The Andromeda Strain, Near Dark, etc. On the thread for the Panasonic, some others have also complained, but many others say they don't see it. Is it possible some settings in the player can be causing (or at least exacerbating) it? I'm connected w/ HDMI & component - no difference. I've tried 480p, 480i, and 720p - no difference. I use the settings noted by Rob in post #1:
"White Level: All the way to the left (min setting)
Black Level: One notch down from center settings (towards min)
Black Setup: 7.5 IRE
HDMI Color Adjust: Enhanced

All other settings as default for the "HDMI Direct" preset."

Except I don't use HDMI Color Adjust: Enhanced. I tried it, but no difference. Also, I don't know what the default settings for HDMI Direct are. I also use the Auto2 setting.

2) I know Bob recommends outputting 480p and allowing the display to upscale, but I've tried 720p just for yuks. With 4:3 material, when I set the display to 4:3, the image runs off the L & R edges of the display area. I've confirmed this with the 59's menus, as well as DVD menus. Is this a miscommunication between the DVD player and the display?

Sorry for the verbose post and thanks for any insight you might provide.

Doug

False Contouring & 720p cropping

I've used the 59AVi w/ an old 32" CRT for a few years, but just moved up to a Panasonic plasma (TH-42PX600U) a month ago. I'm hoping someone might have some insight on these two problems:

1) I see false contouring on most DVDs where the image encourages it. By that I mean: fadeouts, sunrise/sunsets, walls w/ gradually deepening shadows. Examples: The Illusionist, The Descent, The Andromeda Strain, Near Dark, etc. On the thread for the Panasonic, some others have also complained, but many others say they don't see it. Is it possible some settings in the player can be causing (or at least exacerbating) it? I'm connected w/ HDMI & component - no difference. I've tried 480p, 480i, and 720p - no difference. I use the settings noted by Rob in post #1:
"White Level: All the way to the left (min setting)
Black Level: One notch down from center settings (towards min)
Black Setup: 7.5 IRE
HDMI Color Adjust: Enhanced

All other settings as default for the "HDMI Direct" preset."

Except I don't use HDMI Color Adjust: Enhanced. I tried it, but no difference. Also, I don't know what the default settings for HDMI Direct are. I also use the Auto2 setting.

2) I know Bob recommends outputting 480p and allowing the display to upscale, but I've tried 720p just for yuks. With 4:3 material, when I set the display to 4:3, the image runs off the L & R edges of the display area. I've confirmed this with the 59's menus, as well as DVD menus. Is this a miscommunication between the DVD player and the display?

Sorry for the verbose post and thanks for any insight you might provide.

Doug
Try the "HDMI Direct" preset defaults with white and black level in the center and outputting 480i and see if it makes a difference.

What Carl said. (I have a commercial Panasonic plasma.) There will still be *some* clayface and false contouring though. You also have to adjust contrast and brightness on the plasma too. I used Avia for that.


With 4:3 material, when I set the display to 4:3, the image runs off the L & R edges of the display area.Maybe the commercial model is different, but there isn't any "4:3 mode" on the display. ?? Just use the aspect ratio buttons on the remote to get the proper AR. (Full, zoom, normal, etc.) (The output from the player should still be widescreen, btw.)

Also, you might want to try 1080i out of the player too. Some of the older Panasonics didn't deal with 720p properly. I *think* the 60 series is OK, and that it was older models, but I can't remember. :)

Thanks, Carl & Kevin. I will try HDMI Direct, playing around w/ 480i & 1080i.

BTW, the 600U does indeed have a 4:3 aspect. Of course, I only use that w/ 4:3 material, but I do watch a lot of classic films in 4:3 as well as TV like The Prisoner, Outer Limits, Trek, etc. and I don't want the image to be cropped.

Doug

OK, on the pro models "4:3" mode is called "normal" mode. Grey bars left and right.

OK, on the pro models "4:3" mode is called "normal" mode. Grey bars left and right.

Got it. So, when I have the 59AVi set to 720p (& maybe 1080i, haven't checked yet), in order to view 4:3 material that's not stretched, I set the TV to 4:3. This is when the sides are cropped. I guess the 59 is presenting a 16:9 frame, but the TV is arbitrarily cropping back to 4:3 and the two don't match. If so, what's the workaround to viewing 4:3 material when I'm outputting 720p (or 1080i)?

Thanks again,
Doug

Got it. So, when I have the 59AVi set to 720p (& maybe 1080i, haven't checked yet), in order to view 4:3 material that's not stretched, I set the TV to 4:3. This is when the sides are cropped. I guess the 59 is presenting a 16:9 frame, but the TV is arbitrarily cropping back to 4:3 and the two don't match. If so, what's the workaround to viewing 4:3 material when I'm outputting 720p (or 1080i)?

Thanks again,
Doug

If you set the player to "16.9: compressed" in the "initial settings - options - hdmi settings" menu, it will display 4:3 materiel as such. Would this be what you're looking for?

If you set the player to "16.9: compressed" in the "initial settings - options - hdmi settings" menu, it will display 4:3 materiel as such. Would this be what you're looking for?

Duh. I was sure I had tried 16:9 compressed w/ 1080i, but I guess I hadn't. It works. Thanks for your help.

PS I think I'm going to stick w/ 1080i for now. The Panasonic seems to like interlaced input better than progressive. I still see contouring, but it might be a tad less obnoxious.

Doug

I've had my DV-59AVi for several years and now getting back into tweaking it. I'm looking into either a Pio 5070 plasma or other 1080p set.

What resolution does the dv-59avi scale a standard DVD up to?

How well will this plaer work with a 1080p set? Is blueray/HD-DVD the only way to exploit 1920x1080 res?

If not, I think i'd be better off with a 768p set....correct?

I've had my DV-59AVi for several years and now getting back into tweaking it. I'm looking into either a Pio 5070 plasma or other 1080p set.

What resolution does the dv-59avi scale a standard DVD up to?

How well will this plaer work with a 1080p set? Is blueray/HD-DVD the only way to exploit 1920x1080 res?

If not, I think i'd be better off with a 768p set....correct?

Check the manual. It scales up to 1080i via HDMI. I have a 768p set, and it looks pretty good. I have issues w/ false contouring, but that's any SD feed, so I don't think it's an issue w/ the 59AVi. I'm going to have the set professionally calibrated, so I'll see if that improves things further.

Doug

Check the manual. It scales up to 1080i via HDMI. I have a 768p set, and it looks pretty good. I have issues w/ false contouring, but that's any SD feed, so I don't think it's an issue w/ the 59AVi. I'm going to have the set professionally calibrated, so I'll see if that improves things further.

Doug
I have a 720p set now (Hitach 50V500...one of the few LCD rear projections...pre DLP technology). It rocks on this set but LCD RP isn't the "brightest" technology around and, buy todays standards, the black levels are horrible. Plasma and LCD direct view really "pop" on colors and contrast and black levels.

Anyway, the set is 1080i capable and I do have it connected to the TV's DVI port (a BetterCables's HDMI to DVI cable). What I hope is that it'll look better on a 768p plasma and more so on a 1080p set. If it does, I'll go with a 1080p set.

I finally got my DV-59AVi back after the F/W update. Turns out the latest version is
1.536, not 1.526 as I thought before.

The service facility (Service Bench in Norwood, MA. Great guys, BTW), had promised
to check the laser alignment as a courtesy. They said it was OK. It now remains to
be seen whether the (very) occasional skipping was due to disc incompatibilities of
the old F/W or something else. So far, I've watched several discs (including rentals
and DVD-Rs) with no mishap. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

-- Ron

The last prod units shipped with 1.536, correct? (Can't remember...)

What are the upgrades from the latest firmware ???

What are the upgrades from the latest firmware ???
I am not sure. Supposedly, previous versions had compatibility issues with some
discs, that this latest version addressed. Personally, my DV-59AVi occasionally
skipped on discs that my $30 player could play just fine. I was hoping the F/W
update will fix that. Time will tell whether this happens.

-- Ron

I am not sure. Supposedly, previous versions had compatibility issues with some
discs, that this latest version addressed. Personally, my DV-59AVi occasionally
skipped on discs that my $30 player could play just fine. I was hoping the F/W
update will fix that. Time will tell whether this happens.

-- Ron

If possible, could you test any specific discs (if you remember) and report back? We are all entitled to a free firmware upgrade due to the class-action lawsuit, but it would be nice to know for sure that incompatabilities have been fixed.

The process would not be without its frustrations (disconnecting, packaging, shipping, waiting, and lots of hand-wringing (that the box is not drop-kicked), so it would be nice to know if it is worth the hassle.

Mark

If possible, could you test any specific discs (if you remember) and report back? We are all entitled to a free firmware upgrade due to the class-action lawsuit, but it would be nice to know for sure that incompatabilities have been fixed.

The process would not be without its frustrations (disconnecting, packaging, shipping, waiting, and lots of hand-wringing (that the box is not drop-kicked), so it would be nice to know if it is worth the hassle.

Mark
I do not have a single 'bad' disc that I own -- all skipping discs were
rental. And it's not like this happened every day-- more like one every
10-20 rental discs. As I said, only time will tell.

BTW, I am well aware of the hassle involved. Taking any unit out of
my setup is a very time consuming job, as connecting cables have to
be removed from the rear of the equipment towers, which is about 5"
from the rear wall. Putting the unit back in takes even longer. The
player sat in the shop for almost 3 weeks. I did it because I figured
that after all will be said and done, I *may* have a better player,
that will last me until the fully universal player (Blue Ray, HD DVD
and everything older playable in one unit) comes along. My guess,
a couple of years.

-- Ron

I just placed an order for 6 singles coaxial rca from Monoprice so I can try out 5.1 analog. What improvement, if any, should I be looking for if I connect both:

1. 5.1 analog from 59avi to Denon 4802 and assign it as "CD mode" for regular or SACD play back.

2. Toslink from 59avi to 4802 and assign it as "DVD mode" for SD DVD.

Do I need to change any audio setting from the 59avi to best fit the above connection? Or simply keep the cables for the future HD/BD player? ;-)

Cheers,
TP.

I just placed an order for 6 singles coaxial rca from Monoprice so I can try out 5.1 analog. What improvement, if any, should I be looking for if I connect both:

1. 5.1 analog from 59avi to Denon 4802 and assign it as "CD mode" for regular or SACD play back.

2. Toslink from 59avi to 4802 and assign it as "DVD mode" for SD DVD.

Do I need to change any audio setting from the 59avi to best fit the above connection? Or simply keep the cables for the future HD/BD player? ;-)

Cheers,
TP.

When you use the multichannel-out, you need to set the speaker distances and trim in the 59avi's setup. Unfortunately with SACD, it is not as easy to do compared to DVD-Audio. Make sure you have a SACD with test tones in order to balance out the dB for each speaker.

When you use the Toslink, the receiver must have the speaker distances correct as the 59avi is just passing the bitstream for the receiver to decode.

My advice is to listen to both the analog and the digital out to see which you prefer. For critical music listening, the preferred method is using the analog RCA out with Pure Audio "on." Note that no video is output with Pure Audio activated.

Will do...Thanks.

TP.

When you use the multichannel-out, you need to set the speaker distances and trim in the 59avi's setup. Unfortunately with SACD, it is not as easy to do compared to DVD-Audio. Make sure you have a SACD with test tones in order to balance out the dB for each speaker.

When you use the Toslink, the receiver must have the speaker distances correct as the 59avi is just passing the bitstream for the receiver to decode.

My advice is to listen to both the analog and the digital out to see which you prefer. For critical music listening, the preferred method is using the analog RCA out with Pure Audio "on." Note that no video is output with Pure Audio activated.

Well I sent out My Player last night for the firmware upgrade. By the Tracking number they got it today. I hope to get it back by the weekend. Dose any one know what exactly the up grade fixes? Did it make a difference?
Thank you,
Daniel

Well I sent out My Player last night for the firmware upgrade. By the Tracking number they got it today. I hope to get it back by the weekend. Dose any one know what exactly the up grade fixes? Did it make a difference?
Thank you,
Daniel
If you skip back a few messages, you can see my comments
on this question. For the record, in the few weeks since I got
it back, my player never skipped a single disc. This seems to
be an improvement over pre-update behaviour.

-- Ron

Ron thanks,
Cool That great. Is the image and sound guilty any better?

Ron thanks,
Cool That great. Is the image and sound guilty any better?
Not that I can see or hear, but I had no complaint before. My only
concern was intermittent freezing/skipping.

-- Ron

Not that I can see or hear, but I had no complaint before. My only
concern was intermittent freezing/skipping.

-- Ron

Interesting, I have never had any issues of skipping/freezing on my unit.

I think the skipping/freezing is with specific discs, not with most discs. I have never seen it either, but then again, I probably don't have the specific discs that exhibit the problem. :)

I think the skipping/freezing is with specific discs, not with most discs. I have never seen it either, but then again, I probably don't have the specific discs that exhibit the problem. :)
That's correct. The problem only occurred with rental discs, that, supposedly,
were marginal to begin with. However, I also have a cheapo CyberHome
DVD player ($30 after rebate) that merrily played the same discs with no
hitch. Sometimes, washing the disc cured the problem. This did not happen
too often (once every, say, 20 or 30 discs) and I was willing to live with it.

After the F/W upgrade, this has not happened (yet?). I am not saying the
update definitely cured the problem (it could be coincidental), just stating
that, for now, the player seems to have improved.

-- Ron

OK it is going on three weeks and I have not got my Player back. I gave a call to the shop that was upgrading the software and they said I will have it back next week. I think they are using it for themselves since Pioneer told me it only takes less than an hour to do the upgrade.

I've been having playability issues with recorded disks lately . I recently made back-ups of The Queen and A Scanner Darkly, both of which (the back-ups) will not play in my 59AVi. When I hit the play button, it does nothing and the display just reads "0:00:0" after about 30 seconds of spin-up. I recorded them on different dvd burners and different DVD-R disks, all combonations which proved succesful in the past. My Xbox 360 plays the two discs without issue and other back-ups in my library seem to play fine.
Am I a candidate for a firmware upgrade? Going to try to unply the 59AVi for a few minutes to see if a "reboot" will help. Any suggestions?

I found out why it is taking so long for me to get my DV59AVI player back from the software upgrade. It is Because the latest version was 1.536,, As of last week they had another upgrade. The Company doing my up grade said it should be done this week with the latest upgrade.

I need help what was the code procedure and code to find the firmware info?
Thanks for the Help i am having a brain Fart!!!!!

I need help what was the code procedure and code to find the firmware info?
Thanks for the Help i am having a brain Fart!!!!!

From the first post in this thread:

Firmware check for 59avi:

In Initial Settings->Options, while at this menu press DISPLAY in the remote, at the bottom of the screen you can see the firmware version.

:)

If anyone has done an SDI mod on the 59avi could you comment on how it compares to using HDMI?

Thanks,
Mike

What's the info on a firmware upgrade that we entiltled to due to some class action lawsuit. What's the details? I think I need an upgrade as recent new disks won't play as well as some newer DVD-/+r disks that my 5 year old dvd player and Xbox seem to play without issue.

If anyone has done an SDI mod on the 59avi could you comment on how it compares to using HDMI?

Thanks,
Mike
It's cleaner. Not a huge difference, but with a big screen and good video processing downstream it will be noticable.

It's cleaner. Not a huge difference, but with a big screen and good video processing downstream it will be noticable.

Thanks Carl. I get pretty good downstream processing with my VP50 onto a 120" diagaonal 2:35 CIH setup so it sounds like SDI might eek out a few percentage points improvement for me.

I know JVB Digital does an SDI mod for the 59avi. Anyone recommend them - or someone else?


Mike

Quick, off-topic question. What do you think a good condition 59avi is worth at this point? I think I'm going to sell mine for a Blu-Ray player.

Thanks.

Go check Audiogon and Videogon for price ranges. There's a 74avi on Agon for $350. :)

larry

Quick, off-topic question. What do you think a good condition 59avi is worth at this point? I think I'm going to sell mine for a Blu-Ray player.

Thanks.

Last one listed on audiogon sold (asking price was) for 375USD.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1185240544

Go check Audiogon and Videogon for price ranges. There's a 74avi on Agon for $350. :)

larry

Ouch.

So the 59avi would be worth less than that?

Doesn't matter to me, since I am keeping mine until a true universal player is released that will play SACD and DVD-A, as well as Blu-ray and HD-DVD! Yes, I know, I will be waiting quite a while....and the 59avi will be worth even less then.