I finally got through to the Benq help center. I thought it was going to be a painful 30 plus minute wait listening to "Benq driving me crazy" but it was only about 10 minutes. I was actually humming that song in the Walmart checkout tonight which concerns me. Also I can't seem to get Benq products out of my mind. Not just projectors either. Benq DVD-writers, mobile phones, scanners and MP3 players keep flashing in my head. I didn't even know that they made this stuff. Anyway the guy on the phone tells me to box it up and ship it in implying that I should pay the shipping. I said you want me to pay the shipping? He says yea were giving you an upgrade and a 400 dollar lamp can't you pay the shipping? So then I say, dude it says right on the web site that Benq will pay for all shipping. So then he says, oh it does well ok then and proceeds to email me a call tag from ups. I mean I think Benq is properly handling the situitation but who do they have answering the phone. I mean is he not fully informed or is he trying to save Benq 50 dollars in shipping costs. Either way it doesnt sit well. So then about 6 hours later I get an email from this guy saying that my RMA number is changed because he had the wrong country on the return address. I'm a little worried that I will never see my projector again.

As i stated a few pages back, i had the same problem as you a couple weeks back. I was told to pay for shipping, and also made to feel like i should be greatful that they were going to fix the problem at all. I told the fellow i would phone back and speak with another tech.

When i phoned the next day, i was greeted by a lovely woman, who was extremely helpful. She spent 30 min with me issuing the RMA, and even did a seperate RMA for the bulb and one for the Firmware upgrade to the pe7700. I told her my new bulb which was just replaced only 2 weeks ago was fine, but she told me not to worry, and she wanted me to have another new one instead. Like i said she was wonderful. We small talked a bit, and i thanked her for her grat service. The next morning (9:00 am) fedex picked up my stuff from me at work, and it was on its way. I couldnt have asked for a smoother transaction. All it takes is a compitent pleasant person to help you, and things run smooth.

So a good thing to do if you are getting jerked around by a tech, is to phone back the next day and talk to another one. Trust me its worth it.

Incidently when i at first faxed in the benq RMA form which they have online, it took 7 days to receive a fax back with an RMA #. Long after i had already sent it off, by getting my RMA# from the Benq tech directly, after getting impatient by wating 3 days for the Faxed RMA to come back.
So dont fax your RMA request, phoning is actually much faster if you can stand the onl hold music... which brings me too....

On a side note, she told me they actually had a meeting to discuss the "Benq on hold music" (No JOKE)... she told me they play it in some areas of the building, and they are looking to get rid of it since they have had quite a few complaints from on hold customers.

Are new machines affected by this problem or are these posts coming from the same frustrated owner who bought the earlier versions?

Is there a way to tell the firmware version from the menu's? I send mine in the week before they started doing the official upgrades, wanted to see if I go the latest/greatest.

Also, since getting the upgrade, I noticed a slight issue... when starting up connected to an HDMI feed, it doesn't seem to sync right. Colors are all messed up... If I switch to component and back, it's fine. So not a huge issue, just irritating... anyone see anything similar?

--nw

Reading the current issue of Home Theater magazine I found an article that really surprised me. It's called "Are You Getting All The HDTV Resolution You Expected?" by Gary Merson, page 50, March 2006 issue.

He tested 54 of the 2005 model year's HD displays, including some of the latest 1080p ones, and found out that 48% of them failed to process a 1080i signal properly, losing up to one-half of the vertical resolution as a consequence!

It's a very interesting article. He uncovered the simpler and cheaper way some manufacturers (big names included) decided to use to process 1080i signals. In essence what they do is to handle one 540-line field at a time, upconverting the "one-half-resolution" picture to the given digital HD set's native resolution (instead of deinterlacing and then scaling).

At the end of the article there is a 5-column (make, model, technology, native resolution and pass/fail) list of all 54 sets tested and it is alarming!

To test the units he used a computer equipped with a MyHD video card and a test pattern called "SMPTE 133" via component video connection. The pattern used is a 1080i file that has several boxes filled with alternating horizontal black and white lines. Each line occupies a single scan line. It also has a white line superimposed on the pattern that continually rotates 360 degrees to simulate motion.

As you can imagine, units that properly handle 1080i show just what was described above, while the ones that failed the test show flickering boxes (as a result of continually siwtching from solid white to solid black to solid white, etc.)

The article also has 2 close-up pictures of an eye, as seen through one of the "good" displays and one of the "bad" ones. The difference is not subtle at all!

The PE7700 was not tested. Does anybody have a way to try this experiment on it?

Thank God they are getting RID of their theme song on hold music. Now they need to get RID of this PJ that has had nothing but problems since DAY 1...

I sent mine in to Toshiba over the weekend. I hope they know what they are doing. If they don't know how to fix them, maybe they will continue to send us free bulbs as long as we own the projectors.

I sent BenQ my projector via UPS on February 17th. According to UPS, it arrived at BenQ and was signed for on the 21st.

It's now February 28th, and BenQ has *no* record of receiving my projector.

( UPS tracking number 1Z319R1V8755636926 , in case anyone cares. I know UPS says it's 3 lbs, for some reason BenQ sent me a *lamp* call slip. Have no fear, my drop-off receipt shows that I mailed a 16 lb box. I can post a picture if anyone *really* cares. )


I *keep* calling BenQ support, and they *keep* telling me, "maybe tomorrow"... Can I speak to a manager? Of course not, they're all "busy".

Well, I think they have another week, then >I'm< CALLING MY *LAWYER*!

Absolutely the biggest cluster f*** EVER! *UNBELIEVABLY* bad service!

As i stated a few pages back, i had the same problem as you a couple weeks back. I was told to pay for shipping, and also made to feel like i should be greatful that they were going to fix the problem at all. I told the fellow i would phone back and speak with another tech.

When i phoned the next day, i was greeted by a lovely woman, who was extremely helpful. She spent 30 min with me issuing the RMA, and even did a seperate RMA for the bulb and one for the Firmware upgrade to the pe7700. I told her my new bulb which was just replaced only 2 weeks ago was fine, but she told me not to worry, and she wanted me to have another new one instead. Like i said she was wonderful. We small talked a bit, and i thanked her for her grat service. The next morning (9:00 am) fedex picked up my stuff from me at work, and it was on its way. I couldnt have asked for a smoother transaction. All it takes is a compitent pleasant person to help you, and things run smooth.

So a good thing to do if you are getting jerked around by a tech, is to phone back the next day and talk to another one. Trust me its worth it.

Incidently when i at first faxed in the benq RMA form which they have online, it took 7 days to receive a fax back with an RMA #. Long after i had already sent it off, by getting my RMA# from the Benq tech directly, after getting impatient by wating 3 days for the Faxed RMA to come back.
So dont fax your RMA request, phoning is actually much faster if you can stand the onl hold music... which brings me too....

On a side note, she told me they actually had a meeting to discuss the "Benq on hold music" (No JOKE)... she told me they play it in some areas of the building, and they are looking to get rid of it since they have had quite a few complaints from on hold customers.

OK, I am really concerned now. The Benq rep told me that I did not have to fax anything in. He gave me an RMA number over the phone and told me to write it on 3 sides of the box. He was very insistant on this point. Had to be written on three sides of the box. It really strange that they are not consistant from customer to customer.

I hope this is nothing but I just looked at my tracking info and UPS said it was delivered to ALISO VIEJO, CA and signed by Morris. The RMA center is located in IRVINE, CA. Has anyone else tracked their package and gotten the same.

Thanks

Nevermind, I was reading it wrong.

Thanks

I was told to write the the RMA on 3 sides of the box also. My receiver was received, fixed and mailed back in about a week and 1/2. I would assume (or at least, hope) that this means that the RMA on the box is the correct process.

I had the same RMA procedure..3 sides...I did even more than that.

But it has been 2 weeks now and no projector back..........

I had the same RMA procedure..3 sides...I did even more than that.

But it has been 2 weeks now and no projector back..........

Hopefully, they can at least *find* your projector. What a CF!

Hello all 7700 owners !

Just want to say that i got a 7700 with firmware 0.48.
Today my lamp started to flicker for a minute or so.(80h)
I have 2 bulbs that has been replaced so far.
But this time the flickering did stop after a minute or so.
My first lamp flickered until i switched from low to high.
I really hope that this problem is solved, but it does not look like it :(

Hello all 7700 owners !

Just want to say that i got a 7700 with firmware 0.48.
Today my lamp started to flicker for a minute or so.(80h)
I have 2 bulbs that has been replaced so far.
But this time the flickering did stop after a minute or so.
My first lamp flickered until i switched from low to high.
I really hope that this problem is solved, but it does not look like it :(

So you are saying that you've put 80 hours on your unit since the firmware was upgraded and lamp replaced, and it is already starting to flicker, or did you buy a newer unit with firmware .48 and the 'new' lamp already on board?

Hi

I have a problem and wonder if anyone can help me. My first unit (oct 2005) had some problem with the HDMI input so I had to RMA it. Now the exchange unit that i recieved had a 6 months older manufacture date (march 2005). With this unit it isnt possible to change the "color space" from my DVD player. I tried the first unit (oct 2005) and with this one it was possible to change color space from RGB to YCbCr 4:2:2 or YCbCr 4:4:2 but with the exchange unit the only selectable choice was RGB. For me it sounds like there are different hardware in the projectors as they give me different choises in the dvd player? The projectors had the same firmware and my dvd player is a Panasonic S97.

Some other thing i noticed with the exchange unit was that when i changed resolution in the dvd player I had to press OK two times before it changed resolution. With the first unit, the resolution was changed immediatelly

Please help, should I return this unit to?

/T

Hi Guys,

I had a professional install my hometheater. I noticed that the Sky satellite tv was connected to the video input on my pe7700. I thought the image looked very, very bad. Out of focus mostly, on my 84 inch screen.

I noticed that the Sky box has a S-Video output. I asked them to connect the Sky to the s-video input on the projector.

My hometheater specialist said that he would connect the s-video to my rotel receiver and then Rotel receiver would send the information to the projector via the component input. The image should be even better.

Ok, I guess. So now when I watch tv on my projector, I see the following message:
compYcbcR1 (YUV60). Does this seem right? Am I getting the most resolution possible? Should I unplug everything and just connect the two s-video connections??? I cannot believe how poorly the tv image is. Very soft and almost out of focus on my 84 inch screen. As a side note, my SKY package does not offer any high definition channels yet, as I live overseas.

Any help would be appreciated. I already looked through the manual and saw nothing about compYcbcR1 (YUV60).

My 7700 was swaped for another one with firmware upgrade and lamp replaced.

Hi Guys,

I had a professional install my hometheater. I noticed that the Sky satellite tv was connected to the video input on my pe7700. I thought the image looked very, very bad. Out of focus mostly, on my 84 inch screen.

I noticed that the Sky box has a S-Video output. I asked them to connect the Sky to the s-video input on the projector.

My hometheater specialist said that he would connect the s-video to my rotel receiver and then Rotel receiver would send the information to the projector via the component input. The image should be even better.

Ok, I guess. So now when I watch tv on my projector, I see the following message:
compYcbcR1 (YUV60). Does this seem right? Am I getting the most resolution possible? Should I unplug everything and just connect the two s-video connections??? I cannot believe how poorly the tv image is. Very soft and almost out of focus on my 84 inch screen. As a side note, my SKY package does not offer any high definition channels yet, as I live overseas.

Any help would be appreciated. I already looked through the manual and saw nothing about compYcbcR1 (YUV60).

I think the problem may be that your source (Skybox) through s-video is just not that great. S-video, with standard definition video sources, especially TV, imo is not that good.

Can your Rotel take s-video and convert to component? Even if it can, this may not look that good either. If your sat box can do component, then output using that to the projector, or indirectly through the receiver. Standard definition TV directly from the box over component should be acceptable.

Basement,

First, thanks for getting back to me. I realize that standard tv on an 84 inch screen is far from desirable, but I am shocked at how poor the image really is, especially since I am paying a premium for my Sky+ services.

I just looked at the back of my Sky+ box. There is NO video component output, only s-video and video.

I believe that the home theater crew connected the S-video of Sky to the S-video on my Hdtv ready television. Okay. I guess that is as good as it can get on my television.

As for the projector, I believe the plain, simple video output is connected to the Rotel receiver. I think that the receiver is supposedly upconverting the video output of the Sky to the projectors input (video component 1 of my pe7700 projector.)

But the picture on the projector is really crap. On the projector, the source message is: compYcbcR1 (YUV60)???? What does this YUV60 mean???
When I watch a dvd, I see 525p, which means a good progressive dvd feed. YUV60 means that the sky+ feed is ok, inadequate, good???? Any ideas or comments?
Thanks for any advice.

compYcbcR1 (YUV60). Does this seem right? Am I getting the most resolution possible? Should I unplug everything and just connect the two s-video connections??? I cannot believe how poorly the tv image is. Very soft and almost out of focus on my 84 inch screen. As a side note, my SKY package does not offer any high definition channels yet, as I live overseas.

Any help would be appreciated. I already looked through the manual and saw nothing about compYcbcR1 (YUV60).

The YUV60 message indicates that your projector is now receiving a type of component feed instead of S-video. Your Rotel has transcoded the S-video feed from your STB to component.

The signal has not been improved in any way. If anything, it has now gone through another conversion.

Thanks for the feedback.

Just to be clear, my Sky+ box is fed the following: simple video output to Rotel receiver, Receiver to PE7700 projector via video component 1.

What does the YUV60 represent? I realize that the feed is video component, but does the 60 mean the projector is getting only 60 lines of resolution, as opposed to 525p, which is 525 lines???

Anyway, I do not see any benefit at all from this configuration. As I mentioned, the standard tv on my projector looks like crap. If there is some upconversion or improved image voodoo happening, I certainly do not see it.

My Sky+ box DOES have an S-video output. But it is directly connected to my television. The image is better than the projector, but of course it is only 34 inches.

How do others connect their satellite boxes to their pe7700? As I mentioned earlier, my premium Sky+ box does not have video component output, nor high definition channels.

Sorry to sound repetitive, but I am trying to get the best satellite tv picture possible on my projector. What I have now is simply unacceptable.

I think the 60 in YUV60 might represent the refresh rate at 60hz.

You're right that no upconversion is likely happening. I have a Scientific atlanta cable box. Hooked up component, standard definition material is sometimes acceptable depending on the source. The same box hooked up to a regular CRT tv looks better.

I don't think you could improve this very much. The other thing that may be better is to get a video processor box, connect with s-video then up-convert to 720p using superior de-interlacing and scaling capabilities built into the processor box.

Just to be clear, my Sky+ box is fed the following: simple video output to Rotel receiver, Receiver to PE7700 projector via video component 1.

Well, stop right there. No wonder your picture looks bad, you are feeding your Rotel *junk*!

Here is the cable 'heirarchy'... Basically, you want a cable further to the left:

HDMI and/or DVI > RGB and/or Component (Y-Pr-Pb) Video (tie) > S-Video > Composite Video


(HDMI / DVI is only verrry slightly better than component IMHO. YMMV.)

So what's happening is that your sky box is feeding the Rotel via the *worst* kind of cable that gives the *worst* kind of picture. Then, the Rotel is converting that *junk* signal to component, and then sending it over a pretty decent cable type.

Remember the old saying, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link? Well that first "hop" out of your cable box is defnitely the weakest link!

Hook up the S-video output from the Sky box to your Rotel and you should see a lot better picture. Then, if your Rotel has two s-video outputs, hook one to the projector, and one to the TV.


What does the YUV60 represent?

Component video input, 60 frames per second. Your Rotel is generating this format for your projector.

I realize that the feed is video component, but does the 60 mean the projector is getting only 60 lines of resolution, as opposed to 525p, which is 525 lines???

No, no no... :rolleyes: If you were only getting sixty lines of resolution, you'd be looking at something that looked pretty similar to a TV test pattern!

The component inputs can handle all the way from 480 lines of resolution up to 1080i. The projector will simply match whatever the input is feeding it.

Anyway, I do not see any benefit at all from this configuration. As I mentioned, the standard tv on my projector looks like crap. If there is some upconversion or improved image voodoo happening, I certainly do not see it.

There is an upconversion happening, but it can only upconvert the signal it's given; it can't do any voodoo to make the signal *better*. The old saying "garbage in, garbage out" truly applies here.

Korn,

Thanks for the clarification. I thought that the video composite to receiver connection was the problem. GIGO. But the hometheater crew told me that the receiver would "improve the image". They should have known that they had connected the video composite and not the S-video.

I find it depressing that the hometheater crew did not know this. I paid a couple of $$$K for a new screen, new Rotel receiver, etc... and I get poor configuration. It is hard to drive a Ferrari if you are only allowed to stay in 1st gear.



""Hook up the S-video output from the Sky box to your Rotel and you should see a lot better picture. Then, if your Rotel has two s-video outputs, hook one to the projector, and one to the TV."""

I will try your advice and write back. This bit of news is what I was hoping to obtain. Again, I am a bit pissed that I have to do this and not the home theater crew that got $10k from me.

Regular guy (no regular guy that I know has 10K to spend on HT installation, )
Hey, if you got that kind of money, you should pick up a iScan VP30. It should do a much better job of converting the signal than your reciever. It will also convert it to 720p HDMI.
Warren.

What does the YUV60 represent? I realize that the feed is video component, but does the 60 mean the projector is getting only 60 lines of resolution, as opposed to 525p, which is 525 lines???

basement nailed it. the 60 refers to 60Hz refresh rate. The NTSC standard is 60Hz (actually 59.94 interlaced), and PAL is 50Hz interlaced. NTSC does use 525 lines, but only about 480 are visible.

The Rotel doesn't "upconvert" anything. It transcodes S-video to component. It cannot improve the signal, and the additional processing can make it a bit softer.

sorry I thought Sky is a UK network, i.e. a PAL broadcast ? If regular guy is getting a YUV60 that means the rotel is doing a PAL->NTSC conversion which it shouldn't be doing. He should get a YUV50.

Brazil's broadcasting standard is PAL-M (PAL-M is exclusive to Brazil).

PAL-M is a hybrid of NTSC and PAL. It uses the same frequency as NTSC (60Hz), but it uses a PAL color space.

Half of Brazil uses NTSC. I don't know which half. ;)

Did problem #1 ever get fixed?

I'm new to the forum and I have my PE7700 for about 30 days now. I do see a purple/blueish clouds primarily on scenes where it's trying to display a light of some sort.

Perfect Example:

Cronicles of Redick at beginning of movie where the space ship type of vehicle is going after Redick in a cave. The lights from that vehicle show up real bright and with a blueish cloud around them.

Any thoughts?

just to let everyone know. I spoke with benq tech support today, about the firmware update, and bulb replacement recall. in regards to wait time.

My projector has was delivered 1 1/2 weeks ago to the Benq RMA dept. And i phoned today for an update on the RMA status. The rep told me he has been talking with customers all day regarding this issue. And they have been swamped by the rush of Pe7700's showing up for upgrades. i was told i would be waiting approx another 1 to 2 weeks before it was shipped back. He also told me that my projector showed up on the official day the recall was posted on thier website. but that last weeks order of arrival did not guarrantee it would be looked at first.

So much for 'First come, first served"

Looks like they have there hands full, and i have no projector ( as do many of you) for the better part of a Month once again.

later!

The good news is, as you said, that "they have been swamped...." As more folks ask for support, it will become harder and harder for them to shy away from this issue. If the firmware fixes it - great!, if not, they've just become more keenly aware of how big this problem is.

I finally got my projector back.

I sent it in 2-day air on 2/14. I was shipped 3/24 GROUND back to me (thus the delay) and I got it yesterday (3/2). So far so good. I plan on checking its calibration via AVIA this weekend. Last time HDMI need major tweaking while component didnt for some reason.

just to let everyone know. I spoke with benq tech support today, about the firmware update, and bulb replacement recall. in regards to wait time.

My projector has was delivered 1 1/2 weeks ago to the Benq RMA dept. And i phoned today for an update on the RMA status. The rep told me he has been talking with customers all day regarding this issue. And they have been swamped by the rush of Pe7700's showing up for upgrades. i was told i would be waiting approx another 1 to 2 weeks before it was shipped back. He also told me that my projector showed up on the official day the recall was posted on thier website. but that last weeks order of arrival did not guarrantee it would be looked at first.

So much for 'First come, first served"

Looks like they have there hands full, and i have no projector ( as do many of you) for the better part of a Month once again.

Well, don't know if my case is indicitive of the status quo, but my projector sat on their *loading* *dock* for over a week. I finally was able to harass enough people that I got the name and number of the dock manager, and after two hours they *finally* "found" it.

I put found in quotes because somehow, BenQ now says that I'm to receive a whole NEW projector. hMMmmmmmm. Sounds like a cover for someone on the dock having sticky fingers to me!

Who knows when the heck I'll be able to watch my projector again. I'm HOPING BY JUNE BenQ will get its act together. But I'm *not* holding my breath.

For those of you with the updated firmware....how noticeable is the upgrade in terms of picture quality?

For those of you with the updated firmware....how noticeable is the upgrade in terms of picture quality?

Note that my comments below reflect out-of-the-box settings with no attempt at calibration.

This is very preliminary but it appears as if colors on my HD source through component has noticeably improved, particularly in the area of flesh tones. Also, brightness and contrast on this source seems right on. This is on the Cinema setting. With the old firmware I had to make adjustments to get everything looking right.

With HDMI and a HTPC playing a DVD, also through Cinema, contrast and brightness is off and requires adjustment. Blacks look grey. I can see the black bars of a 2.35:1 movie as grey bars. Colors seem off as well. Flesh tones have a reddish tinge. To my eyes it appears as if for my HDMI source, nothing has changed from an out-of-the box setup with my projector on the old firmware. There had been a posting recently about resetting to factory defaults with the new firmware. I wonder if it's possible that the settings after the firmware upgrade requires a reset, or better yet can a particular source be reset separately from the other inputs?

I'm going to try a 480p component source from a settop DVD player this evening.

I shipped by UPS overnight through their call tag on Feb 16th. They said they unpacked it on the 22nd (that's overnight?). Called on Monday (27th) and they said I'd have it back by the end of the week. Called yesterday and they said they don't have it done and they don't know when it will be finished, but that it will be fixed for good this time. They just have gotten a ton of these in they said and can't keep up. 1st bulb went at 134hrs. 2nd at 93hrs. Not what I expected when I bought the thing.

For those of you with the updated firmware....how noticeable is the upgrade in terms of picture quality?

I cannot say yet. However, I will be re-calibrating this weekend and will be curious if I adjust similarly or not.

It looks great for what I have watched, but not sure yet if it is 'better great'

I am going to run mine till it dies then send it in.

How are you guys getting status on your upgrades? I sent mine in last Mon and they recieved on Wed. I sent Email to same support person that issued my RMA and asked if they or BenQ sends Email when the projector is finished with return shipping information/tracking and her reply was "no we do not". The only way you know it was shipped back is when you get a UPS "sorry we mised you" notice?

I am going to run mine till it dies then send it in.
Me too. Will go over 400 hours on it tonight. So far so good. Oct. 05 Man. date

Me too. Will go over 400 hours on it tonight. So far so good. Oct. 05 Man. date

Now you've done it! :)

I'm (now at) 540 hours: Sept 05 Build

OK...I have had it. 4th Lamp went out last night in middle of movie. Lamp was the "newly designed" piece of junk. When the first one blew in August, I had to send it in because they also wanted to upgrade the firmware because of problems with my HDMI signal. Anyway, didn't connect my HDMI DVD until November, (using component from 2nd DVD). Guess what, still doesn't work, check firmware date...May 2005, two weeks after I originally bought it. Means that they didn't do anything to the firmware, just replaced lamp.

Lamp goes out again in December, had to wait 4 weeks for replacement (they were doing inventory is the excuse), Got the new one in January, died yesterday.
This will be the 4th one. All of them died in the 40-60 hour range. In total, I have used it about 200 hours. When it works, it is stunning, but it is certainly NOT worth the hardship, inconvenience, and frustration. I am tired of having to uninstall and reinstall it from my ceiling mount, packing and mailing it, tired of having movies die in the middle, tired of having to explain to my family and friends when it dies in the middle of something, tired of being on hold waiting for customer service for 45 minutes or more, tired of all the dumb excuses from BenQ, tired of their "we fixed the problem" stories. So far, my projector has spent more time in the repair shop, in transit, and out of service, than the total hours I have used it.

This is just simply a very poorly designed or engineered projector. I simply cannot believe anymore that this is just a bulb or firmware problem. Osram\Sylvania has been making bulbs forever, they know bulb science better than anyone. To say, the problem is the bulb, is like saying the battery in your car is the problem causing your transmission to fail. It simply does not make sense. For BenQ to simply be so willing to replace the bulb every time it dies out is simply not acceptable. I am sure that everyone who has gone through removing and reinstalling it, mailing it, being without it for weeks, and just simply the frustration of it all knows this. Not to mention, the 3K we paid for it.

With the help of my wonderful and dear niece (attorney), I/we are exploring the possibility of starting a class action lawsuit against BenQ. If other BenQ victims are interested, please let me know.

With the help of my wonderful and dear niece (attorney), I/we are exploring the possibility of starting a class action lawsuit against BenQ. If other BenQ victims are interested, please let me know.

I'd be interested, as I have no faith left in BenQ after this whole episode. My gut feeling (and let's face it, how often are gut feelings *wrong*? *very* seldomly!) is that I'll get my PJ back, it'll work for a few hundred hours, and I'll be right back where I started.

I'd start by hammering them on their non-observance of their QExchange "warranty". Pretty well documented in the warranty that you should get a PJ back within 24 hours. Sh'yeah, RIGHT!

Jake123,

I have the Toshiba model and I wonder if we can be involved as well. I mentioned this idea several months ago and everyone seemed to think I was crazy. I believe they are trying these different fixes, but they simply aren't working.

Thanks guys...I'm in Long Island, NY, please feel free to email me...my email is:

rivera11@optonline.net

I'm sure the MT700 is and would be included as it is for all intents and purposes, the same as the PE7700. Both with the same cronic problems.

I am sending BenQ USA, and BenQ Tiawan (the CEO) a formal letter detailing my experience and problems, and that of other PE7700 and MT700 owners, similiarly situated.

Thanks, will keep you informed.

Jake

I be willing to join you if my next lamp blows, since they've acknowledged the problem (at least, BenQ) by listing it in their FAQ and saying they have a fix for it via firmware update (to 0.48). Mine has been upgraded to that level now and has 120 hours on it currently. My previous best (this is the 3rd bulb) was 200 hrs. If it blows after this supposed fix, I'd be happy to join you. However, I consider this firmware upgrade the first official fix, and replacing the bulbs previously were just treating the symptoms while they determined the problem. I realize that this may just be a facade, but I need to at least give them a shot at seeing if their "fix" works.

Well it does look like it qualifies for a class action, I just got informed of a class action on my GE refrigerator it has been repaired 4 times for the same problem, the bad news is I the customer have to prove all 4 repairs (I only kept 3)the first I can not find the paper work,and the refund can only be applied to a new GE of the same quality :o or if you only have 3 repairs they will extend the warranty for however long you own it.........so it looks like if I can't find the first repair ticket I am going to hav't to put up with the repairmens butt crack for the next 10 years :( :( :( :( :(

I'm not going to get get to excited about a class action (even though I do think it's a good idea) the above action took 6 years, I will have a different PJ long before it's settled, so I hope BQ will find the problem, I guess I could sell the replacement unit on ebay when I'm 55. :D

Here is an option to get a $2,500 trade-in credit for your PE7700 when you purchase the 8720.
TVAuthority Link (http://www.tvauthority.com/pe8720-promo/proj_pe8720_demo.asp?aff=5319)

I would trust a new BenQ about as far as I could throw it.

Here is an option to get a $2,500 trade-in credit for your PE7700 when you purchase the 8720.
TVAuthority Link (http://www.tvauthority.com/pe8720-promo/proj_pe8720_demo.asp?aff=5319)

Wow. Is that disturbing or what? Some might read that as an admission that BenQ would just as soon get the 7700's off the street.

With the $2500 dollar trade-in, you would still have alot of $$$$ to cough up for the 8720. My budget won't allow it. Is the picture quality worth it for that price? For some of us it is and the quest goes on and on. I"m tired of tweaking and just want to enjoy the movie and have quality along with it. I feel for you guys that keep having the problem with the 7700. I'd be upset also having the bulb go out again and again. I"m up to 520+ hours on the original bulb with no problems so far. That could change........ Blasst

Up to 500 hrs, Jun 01, 2005 purchase date. I use economy lamp and high altitude modes and a Liebert power conditioner. The picture looks excellent after my amateur calibration and re-calibration using Avia. (X my fingers!)

I'm at a dilemma here - do I send the PJ in for the f/w upgrade and new lamp, or just keep it (if it ain't broke don't fix it!)?

Good question Zilla. I''m just going to keep using my projector until it fails, then drive the 10 minutes to Benq in Irvine and hand deliver the thing to them for the upgrade:)

Here is an option to get a $2,500 trade-in credit for your PE7700 when you purchase the 8720.
TVAuthority Link (http://www.tvauthority.com/pe8720-promo/proj_pe8720_demo.asp?aff=5319)

Nice thought until you realize they will probably charge retail price for the 8720....either way , lots of extra dough.

Wow. Is that disturbing or what? Some might read that as an admission that BenQ would just as soon get the 7700's off the street.

You guys just kill me. BenQ is trying to make a gesture of goodwill to all their customers and you misconstrue it as "disturbing". I can tell you for a fact that BenQ is very proud of the 7700 now that they have a handle on the bulb and firmware issue. This offer is just a way for their loyal customers that went through the bulb issue to step up to world class performance in the 8720. I know that they are trying to get all the units back that they can to do the upgrade. The last thing they want is a customer that does not read AVS to purchase an old unit or a 7700 second hand and have these problems. Many people loking at this price bracket are first time buyer and you only get one chance to make a first impression. BenQ wants to put their best foot forward. I already have a PE8720 but if I did have a PE7700, I would be all over this deal. Its like purchasing this PJ for under cost because you are getting full value for a use PE7700 which is worth less than $1500 on the used market if you are lucky.

You guys just kill me.

Have you been reading this thread?? :rolleyes:

On the other hand, maybe I'm the only one who has misconstrued. I'm glad to hear that BenQ now has a handle on the situation, although I think I missed the proof that this is the case. Have you heard any specifics? I'm thinking something along the lines of.... "I talked to a BenQ rep last week and he told me that the firmware upgrade finally fixes the lamp issue by reducing voltage to component "X" by 10% and extending the cooldown period by "y" seconds." All I've heard is "some CSR said don't worry, the firmware will fix the issue that we told you three months ago the improved lamp design would fix."

Have you been reading this thread?? :rolleyes:

On the other hand, maybe I'm the only one who has misconstrued. I'm glad to hear that BenQ now has a handle on the situation, although I think I missed the proof that this is the case. Have you heard any specifics? I'm thinking something along the lines of.... "I talked to a BenQ rep last week and he told me that the firmware upgrade finally fixes the lamp issue by reducing voltage to component "X" by 10% and extending the cooldown period by "y" seconds." All I've heard is "some CSR said don't worry, the firmware will fix the issue that we told you three months ago the improved lamp design would fix."

Yeah, well, my CS Rep said everyone was holding their breath...........

and per the 'deal' on the 8720. The company is probably asking full retail, and the street price is about $1k less than that...about the difference in $2500 and used value of this 7700....at least within a couple hundred bucks. Am I wrong?

Yep, it's just a marketing ploy. Regardless of whether the deal exists, I don't think the 8720 is worth the cost, especially with the H79 at a lower price point and very comparable, and the Ruby at a similar price point and 1080p among other things.

I think I'll wait a bit longer and see how the 7700 lasts with this firmware, and wait for the Ruby to come down in price or possibly get a future 1080p that's a bit brighter, even if I have to wait a couple of years. I'm perfectly happy with the quality of my 7700 until 1080p is in this price range.

I noticed on ProjectorCentral that people are still posting reviews as late as Feb. saying that their bulb blew. Does anyone know when the 48 firmware was released to new projector purchases.

You guys just kill me. BenQ is trying to make a gesture of goodwill to all their customers and you misconstrue it as "disturbing". I can tell you for a fact that BenQ is very proud of the 7700 now that they have a handle on the bulb and firmware issue. This offer is just a way for their loyal customers that went through the bulb issue to step up to world class performance in the 8720. I know that they are trying to get all the units back that they can to do the upgrade. The last thing they want is a customer that does not read AVS to purchase an old unit or a 7700 second hand and have these problems. Many people loking at this price bracket are first time buyer and you only get one chance to make a first impression. BenQ wants to put their best foot forward. I already have a PE8720 but if I did have a PE7700, I would be all over this deal. Its like purchasing this PJ for under cost because you are getting full value for a use PE7700 which is worth less than $1500 on the used market if you are lucky.

I have to jump on this one. "BenQ is very proud of the 7700" is the craziest statement I have ever heard. Who in their right mind would be proud to put their customers through the troubles we have all experienced? "now that they have a handle on the bulb and firmware issue" I truly hope they do, but as others have said - fool me once shame on you, fool me twice (three, four) times shame on me.

The statement on BenQ's site is completely inadequate. It should read something more like " We completely acknowledge that these units are blowing their bulbs out WAY to early and we will back the owners of this product up 100% until we have a proper fix. If you continue to have the early bulb blow out problem we will either refund your money or replace your unit with an equal or superior model at NO CHARGE.

The statement on BenQ's site is completely inadequate. It should read something more like " We completely acknowledge that these units are blowing their bulbs out WAY to early and we will back the owners of this product up 100% until we have a proper fix. If you continue to have the early bulb blow out problem we will either refund your money or replace your unit with an equal or superior model at NO CHARGE.

Welcome to the legal world of today. There is NO way an legal dept would allow such a statement.

The statement on BenQ's site is completely inadequate. It should read something more like " We completely acknowledge that these units are blowing their bulbs out WAY to early and we will back the owners of this product up 100% until we have a proper fix. If you continue to have the early bulb blow out problem we will either refund your money or replace your unit with an equal or superior model at NO CHARGE.


hahahahahaha, oh man.

Hey, at least they aren't Sanyo and make you pay outrageous charges for repairs ;)

wow....unbeleivable....need more be said?

The one thing that I can say about Benq is that, at least, they have acknowledged the problem publicly on their web site! They are actually addressing the issue and doing something about it. Most companies usually do that after they have a law suit filed against them and have to do a recall. They are doing this on their own which is definitely a plus in my book, so they do care about their customers to some degree, otherwise we would have been on our own trying to get our problems resolved for who knows how long! They are doing their part for now.

The only thing is, will it solve the problem, only time will tell? Otherwise they might have no choice but to completely rebuild the 7700, once they figure out the real problem, or replace it with the 8720, if they can't figure it out or it's not feasible to rebuild.

The cynicism on this site is amazing. Do you really all think that this is the way MOST companies treat their customers - NO WAY! The fact that you all are satisfied with a clearly defective product because ALL LEGAL DEPARTMENTS don't let their company's address their defective products is RIDICULOUS! I deal with many companies on a daily basis there are very few that handle a widespread problem such as this in this manor.

Most (not all) simply do the right thing to keep their customers happy and make the problem go away.

What's really amazing is that you guys are talking about filing a law suit against a company that is standing behind their warranty. They might have a defective product but did they not give you a new lamp when yours went out? And when it went out again did they not replace that also? From what I see, the projector should only be sent in once for the upgrade and that's it. If the lamps still keep going out then they should give everyone a second lamp with the new exchange, so that no one will ever be without a lamp at any given point until the problem is resolved. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be entertainig their family or freinds, and the lamp goes out, with out having a new one on hand for quick replacement at least for now, until this whole issue is resolved correctly!

Phillips Shipped 2500 Defective Bulbs, Phillips Replaced 2500 Defective Bulbs, New Bulbs Operate At A Different Temperature Than The Original Specs, Firmware Needs Updating To Compensate For New Operating Temperature Of New Bulb, No Conspiracy, Just Facts...jeez!

Phillips Shipped 2500 Defective Bulbs, Phillips Replaced 2500 Defective Bulbs, New Bulbs Operate At A Different Temperature Than The Original Specs, Firmware Needs Updating To Compensate For New Operating Temperature Of New Bulb, No Conspiracy, Just Facts...jeez!

As I said sometime ago, if the upgrade solves the lamp issue and new lamps are ok, then this forum will probably be happy! What's strange to me is that people are talking about law suits, if you look at the previous page. I feel that Benq is addressing the issue and honoring their warranty, but others don't see it that way, I'm not sure why?

Phillips Shipped 2500 Defective Bulbs, Phillips Replaced 2500 Defective Bulbs, New Bulbs Operate At A Different Temperature Than The Original Specs, Firmware Needs Updating To Compensate For New Operating Temperature Of New Bulb, No Conspiracy, Just Facts...jeez!

That sounds great!* Do you mind telling us how you obtained this information?







*unfortunately, the lamps are OSRAM/Sylvania, so you don't appear to have your facts straight.

yeah, you must be right, i cant possibly have the correct information....sorry, i cant say how i have the info, but others will verify that i am in a position to have the correct info, and as for the NAME on the bulb, eventually, everybody owns somebody else...

That sounds great!* Do you mind telling us how you obtained this information?







*unfortunately, the lamps are OSRAM/Sylvania, so you don't appear to have your facts straight.


If you only knew who you were actually corresponding with....

If you only knew who you were actually corresponding with....

Okay, I'll bite.....

Obviously, when a "new member" joins with the name "Ben Q Dude" apparently to only post in this thread, it's probably some senior member who needs to use an alias for reasons unknown to at least some of us. Hopefully, somebody will PM me with the real story so I don't go on suggesting that the guy who designed the PE7700 doesn't have his facts straight :rolleyes: .

But seriously, Ben Q Dude (or whatever your real name is :) ), there are a lot of frustrated PJ owners who would benefit from the real facts as to what is going on here.

Agreed, NMJack.

hmmm.... why all the cloak and dagger? If it’s anonymous why not just dole out the straight story. Something is a little weird here.

Not sure if this is the same company that makes projector bulbs, but this indicates Siemens owns OSRAM. I searched the Philips site for the term OSRAM and it was only listed as a competitive supplier. This came off the web from the Sylvania site:

"OSRAM SYLVANIA, part of the Siemens family of companies, has global reach and global promise. ...."

Have you been reading this thread?? :rolleyes:

Eric is a dealer, and as we all know, dealers haven't exactly been too concerned about whether BenQ has really fixed the lamp problem. Once they collect their money, they can wash their hands of the situation while BenQ makes excuses and replaces lamps every 100 hours. They can always fall back on "how great BenQ is for stepping up and addressing the problem." :rolleyes:

Anyone who jumps from the 7700 to the 8720 is jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

Phillips Shipped 2500 Defective Bulbs, Phillips Replaced 2500 Defective Bulbs, New Bulbs Operate At A Different Temperature Than The Original Specs, Firmware Needs Updating To Compensate For New Operating Temperature Of New Bulb, No Conspiracy, Just Facts...jeez!

What more facts do you need? Doesn't this pretty much cover it?

Send your projector in and get the upgrade.

Send your projector in and trade-up to the 8720.

List your projector on E-Bay and buy a new projector (but you may be trading one problem for another).

As one of my customers just told me, "you will never know what true happiness is until you replace your PE7700 -- and then it's too late."

And by the way, I was very upset when bulbs starting popping on projectors I sold to customers, and I worked hard with Benq to try and make it right.

Siemens (Osram/Sylvania) and Philips are separate competitive companies.

It gets deeper here every day. Besides, we've heard the "new lamp" story several times now.

Eric is a dealer, and as we all know, dealers haven't exactly been too concerned about whether BenQ has really fixed the lamp problem. Once they collect their money, they can wash their hands of the situation while BenQ makes excuses and replaces lamps every 100 hours. They can always fall back on "how great BenQ is for stepping up and addresing the problem." :rolleyes:

Anyone who jumps from the 7700 to the 8720 is jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

Wow, that was a little below the belt. Just for your information, I have yet to sell ONE PE7700 because of the bulb issues. I have pointed all my customers to the Mitsubishi HC-3000 which I also sell. I will say that I now have confidence in the PE7700 after talking to the techs at BenQ doing the latest round of tests. I will begin to try and sell these units now. They truly are a great PJ for the money all bulb issues aside.

Now on to the issue with the 8720. The upgrade is a fantastic offer and one that many will take advantage of. I have had a 8720 in the field for a couple of months now and also know of 2-3 other units with over 500 hours on the bulbs. BenQ has already upped the performance with 2 firmware upgrades. People in the know also know what this PJ really is and realize they could pay alot more for it.

Finally, I agree with Kevin. Please look at the options he gave. Sell the PJ and move on once upgraded. There will be a market. I guarantee you guys are just giving yourselves ulcers over this. Its not worth it. Its a hobby. :D

Anyone who jumps from the 7700 to the 8720 is jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

I respect your opinions, but what factual basis do you have to make such a statement about the 8720? Any report of bad bulbs, bad picture, or other problems? Not that I'm aware of.

BenQ didn't build a bad projector, but it bought a bunch of bad bulbs -- from a company that makes them for a number of other projector companies.

I would be curious to hear what you think is a perfect projector for the same price?

First, BenQ is honoring the warranty because they have to legally. They are not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. Since it has been established that both the PE7700 and the Toshiba MT700 have the same problems, and since both are made by BenQ and are essentially the same projector for all intents and purposes, it is clearly evident that both projectors have the same engineering, design, or manufacturing defect. One only has to follow various forums and review sites to see that the problem is quite widespread and not simply confined to a small production batch.

Having gone through 3 bulbs already and having the 4th one die 2 days ago (newly designed bulb), it is apparent that something else is causing the bulbs to fail. I suspect that the problem is power or heat hardware related, and not firmware. I simply do not believe that the firmware upgrade will do anything to address the actual problem. As far as the bulb itself, it is made by Osram, a huge global lighting corporation with tons of experience in the science of every type of complex lighting one can possibly think of. They know what the tolerance and capability of their projector bulbs are, as they make them for a great number of other projectors and video devices. However, what their bulb load can tolerate and properly handle is dependent on other projector components operating within the specific range engineered for that particular bulb. Why I think the problem is power or heat related, is because they place the greatest stress on the bulbs, and that and only that would cause them to prematurely fail on this scale. If the bulbs were the real problem, Osram would have surely known that even prior to the introduction of the PE7700 and the MT700 and designed a more robust bulb. That's my take on this whole "bad bulb" BS story.

However, what I find even more troubling is that these are not your regular type of "bulb". These are high pressure mercury bulbs which require careful care in handling them due to the hazardous material, mercury. On this forum, some have reported that the bulb had actually broken/shattered when they failed. With the great frequency of bulb failures on these projectors, it can be reasonably assumed that more breakage will occur either through the bulb breaking, or in handling them by the frequent removing and replacing them. This is not acceptable. None of us thought that buying this projector, would entail frequent handling of these bulbs, exposure to hazardous materials, or simply becoming professional bulb changers and projector removers and installers.

Of course, this does not include all the inconviences we have had to endure; removing the projector and the bulb, packing and shipping, bringing it to UPS or FedEx, waiting for weeks for it to be returned, installing it again, etc, etc, etc. The worst part is having family and friends over and having to apologize and explain why the damn projector died in the middle of a sporting, movie, or worse, pay per view event.

Yes, I'm damn mad and not taking any more of the excuses, "the problem is the bulb", or "the problem is the firmware", and even better yet, "this will fix the problem for sure". Don't want to hear any more of their nonsense. It is a great projector when it works, otherwise, it's is by every definition a "Lemon" in the purest sense. This didn't cost us a few bucks. We paid several thousand dollars for this, and we're just suppose to just lay down with every excuse they give us, even insult us further by giving us a "great deal" on trading it up for a 8720, thereby making even more money on both ends. Sorry, Mr. BenQ, not falling for your "wonderful" offer. Make us an offer that is real, like refunding our money, or exchanging the PE7700 for the 8720 (not that I trust that one either). Otherwise, I'll take my chances in court. Sorry for the long rant.

Jake123: You have every right to be mad but ...

Did you get the upgrade?
Did your bulb fail after the upgrade?

If not, then you are beating a dead horse and engaging in nothing more than pure speculation. We ALL know the bulbs are bad. What we want to know are facts as to whether the upgrade fixes the problem.

Unless we start hearing regular reports of failed bulbs on projectors that got the upgrade, then discussing bad experiences with projectors that have not been upgraded is not relevant or helpful.

By the way, I can buy a dozen different projectors at wholesale, but I prefer the 7700. If I thought there was a better projector at the price, I would own it.

I respect your opinions, but what factual basis do you have to make such a statement about the 8720? Any report of bad bulbs, bad picture, or other problems? Not that I'm aware of.

BenQ didn't build a bad projector, but it bought a bunch of bad bulbs -- from a company that makes them for a number of other projector companies.

I would be curious to hear what you think is a perfect projector for the same price?

Kevin, I very much respect your opinions as well. I should have said that one is quite possibly jumping from the frying pan into the fire with the 8720. It has only been out for a few months, and as we all know, the first blown lamp reports didn't start coming in on the 7700 for about 3 months, so it is too soon to tell. Bottom line is it is a risk that I would not take. To be honest, I no longer trust BenQ. It's that simple.

I sell products for a living as well, and I have quit representing manufacturers for conduct similar to BenQ's. In my case, I don't manufacture product, nor do I deliver it. I act as an agent between distant manufacturers and my local reseller. Consequently, the only person that my customers look to when/if something goes wrong is me. When a manufacturer continually fails to live up to any part of their obligation to the customer that I've secured for them, I have to consider how that affects my reputation.

The "bunch of bad bulbs story" wore out its welcome when the "new design" lamps started to blow at the same rate as the old.

I'm not looking for the "perfect projector." They all have their shortcomings at this price level. I replaced the 7700 with the AE900, and it is certainly not perfect. However, it will likely run for the next 3 to 4 years without ever having to take it down, box it up, and send it in for any sort of an upgrade. I fully expect to get no less than 2000 hours out of the lamp, and that is not just a pipe dream.

That is exactly the reason I don't trust them with their excuses. They told me that the problem is the bulb. That the "new one" will fix it. Well, the new one died just like the other 3. As for the firmware upgrade...I was told they upgraded the firmware when I sent it to them, it is stated on the repair sheet that came back with the projector. When I checked in their service mode, I found out the firmware was dated in May 2005, two weeks after I originally bought the damn projector. So, yes, it appears that lying is part and parcel of their program. I'm sure that when their "upgraded firmware" does nothing, they will be creative enough to find another excuse. I'm surprised they haven't tried blaming it on the owners yet, but I wouldn't discount that happening either.

Bubbawilly -- well said. I certainly understand and respect your viewpoint.

yeah, you must be right, i cant possibly have the correct information....sorry, i cant say how i have the info, but others will verify that i am in a position to have the correct info, and as for the NAME on the bulb, eventually, everybody owns somebody else...

Maybe you are one those people who work for BenQ but can't divulge any information because of YOUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT???

If this firmware upgrade really will solve the problem - why can't they tell us what it is doing/fixing/changing? They just don't FEEL like they are coming clean. It just seems like they are tyring to buy more time.

What more facts do you need? Doesn't this pretty much cover it?

Send your projector in and get the upgrade.



Well, reviewing the thread, it appears this comment was directed at me. The issue isn't the "facts", but rather whose "facts" we choose to believe. Like most others, I will be sending my PJ in for the "upgrade." Will this really fix things? Time will tell. I sincerely hope it does.

I would ask that those on the sunny side of the street remember that some of us have, in good faith, spent hard earned money on a product that has failed to perform at an acceptable level. We're not on a witch hunt; just looking for the performance that we paid for. It doesn't help when we're told that a fix has been found only to later be told "oops, forget what we told you before, now we REALLY have the fix." If the latest version really fixes these things, then most or all of us will gradually foget our frustration and move on with life (with a GREAT PJ providing 2000+ hours of enjoyment per lamp). If not.......

well, lets just say, this thread may have a long, loooong future.

Talk to you soon! :)

I'd have to agree with the ‘angry’ crowd here. I think we are way past the point of giving BenQ the benefit of the doubt by assuming they’ve fixed the problem. My thought is we can’t assume anything is fixed until we see significant time on working lamps. I really can’t believe we have people indicating that BenQ has solved the problem. Give me a break, I heard that same thing here in October when I got a new design bulb … and it then failed in December. The burden of proof has clearly moved to BenQ. Put up some proof and please don’t offer me the opportunity to pay you another $4k so I can get out from under this projector. :mad:

I agree that whining here isn’t that helpful, but it does serve as useful input to anyone looking for a projector. I personally wouldn’t feel good if someone new comes on this thread and reads that BenQ has solved the problem. As far as I'm concerned this projector has a serious defect until proven else wise. Its not up to us to prove it isn’t fixed, its up to BenQ to prove its fixed.

I'm surprised at all the anger here. Benq has publicly acknowledged the problem, and is offering a no-cost fix. As far as I can tell neither Benq nor Toshiba have failed to replace any prematurely failed lamps -- even if outside the warranty.

Clearly this is unfortunate. I myself am on my 3rd lamp from Toshiba. However, their customer service has been very good.

Is there anybody who's received the updgraded firmware and lamp who's had a problem? If so, then that would be something to talk about.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath. And when a new member called "Benq Dude" appears and starts to Champion benq, its bound to get some people mad.

Dont attack dealers, and certainly not Kevin. I cant thing of a more helpful and honest person as he. Its not their fault the pe-7700 has problems.

I myself am on bulb #3, up until i send in 7700 with the new bulb for the upgrade and bulb replacement (just to make sure i got a good bulb).

Benq is a a big company, here in Canada they have emerged the #2 consumer electronics manufacturer next to samsung. And getting the same answers from different tech support people is not likely to happen. But in a few months when our bulbs stop failing, and the new bulbs and firmware upgrades had proven the point. i hope we can give Benq another chance. Hell be happy you dont have a Toshiba mt-700 , , as i hear its more difficult to get support. I think benq is anxious to stop the bleeding also, don't you?

But really "Benq Dude" your not helping, with your 2 sentence blanket statements. And if you really do know whats going on, you would be the first Benq employee who i have heard from, or talked to , that does

I'm surprised at all the anger here. Benq has publicly acknowledged the problem, and is offering a no-cost fix. As far as I can tell neither Benq nor Toshiba have failed to replace any prematurely failed lamps -- even if outside the warranty...

OK, here's where part of the problem comes from.

“Benq has publicly acknowledged the problem, and is offering a no-cost fix “ :rolleyes:

This is not a known fix. In fact we can't even get a clear "official" explanation as to how the upgraded firmware affects the lamp problem. If there’s been any explanation from BenQ, please point me to it. Once you burn your credibility by saying you have the problem fixed with a new lamp design, you don’t just get it back by coming up with a supposed new fix. Also, these no-cost fixes have cost me many hours on the phone and more than one trip to UPS.

OK, here's where part of the problem comes from.

“Benq has publicly acknowledged the problem, and is offering a no-cost fix “ :rolleyes:

This is not a known fix. In fact we can't even get a clear "official" explanation as to how the upgraded firmware affects the lamp problem. If there’s been any explanation from BenQ, please point me to it. Once you burn your credibility by saying you have the problem fixed with a new lamp design, you don’t just get it back by coming up with a supposed new fix. Also, these no-cost fixes have cost me many hours on the phone and more than one trip to UPS.

Mr "Ben Q Dude" post 2825 seems to have an answer, one of many on this forum, including one of mine awhile ago that included a hardware upgrade according to a tech at Benq. So take your choice! Maybe by summer we might know what's going on and if the new firmware really will give our lamps a 3000 hr. life.
Goodnight and Good Luck!!!

I am considering buying the BenQ PE7700 because of its great performances and because its throw ratio is small (1.36), so I will be able to project a large image (110" diagonal) in my room.

I know this PJ had/has a bulb pb, but after reading that thread I realize that BenQ has been aware of the pb since quite some time and seems to be working really hard to fix it. My point of view is that the last fix (firmware+bulb upgrade) probably resolved it for good. And even if it's not the case, they they will probably fix it definitively next time (so worst case I will go through 1 premature bulb change).

Guys, what do you think ? If you were at my place, would you even consider buying the PE7700 ? My other choices are: Optoma HD72 or Panasonic AE900U, that's the only 2 other similar PJ I have been able to find in this price range (less than $2000).

- great dude

To "great dude".
As long as the lamp issue is fixed, I would consider the 7700. The picture quality is great, especially in HD.

Great Dude,
Since it will be 8-12 weeks before we know if the "fix" will work, you may want to go with the Optoma.

great dude,

I have the Toshiba with the new "fix". Let me tell you, the picture is awesome. I could not be more content with the picture quality. The contrast is awesome, there is a lot of "punch" in the picture, and it is very easy to watch DARK scenes. It is very film like with my Oppo DVD player.

All that being said, I can't in good conscience recommend this projector. BenQ and Toshiba simply have not VERIFIED that they have fixed this problem. The fact of the matter is they just came out with this new fix a couple of weeks ago. We are all probably 6-12 months away from our 1500 hours of viewing without a pre-mature bulb blowing to know.

The problem with BenQ is a credibility issue too. They have tons of engineers and experts that really know what the problem is and what the solution is too. They have all the expertise, equipment, technology, and laboratories to figure this one out. We don't. But here is where I take issue with them. They first claim that the problem was the bulb, which we now know is not exactly true. When their new bulbs started failing just like the old one, they came up with the firmware as being the culprit. Since we all know by now that it would be weeks before we start seeing whether this is true or not, we are still on the clock warranty-wise. I do not for one minute believe that given all their resources, they cannot figure out what the problem is with absolute 100% certainty. If the bulbs start dying again, will BenQ admit their product is flawed and defective, or will they come up with another reason, or worse, will they say, with all the bulb replacements, most if not all of us have exceeded the 90 day/500 hour warranty on the bulbs. This would obviously mean that we would have to purchase them at 400 bucks a clip. For most of us, this would translate into 800 to 1600 bucks a year. Get us past the warranty, then sink or swim on our own. If I sound too harsh or negative, it is because this experience has left me with no sense of credibility in what BenQ says.

OK, here's where part of the problem comes from.

“Benq has publicly acknowledged the problem, and is offering a no-cost fix “ :rolleyes:

I agree. This has come up lately, and for some reason, it seems to come up from relatively new posters.

To my knowledge, there has been no 'formal' acknowledgement, and it is certainly way too early to tell if their "firmware fix " does anything. The infamous FAQ is vague at best. There are even recent reports of units sent in for "the fix" being returned with old firmware.

To be brutally honest, some of the recent comments about how "wonderful" BenQ is, and how they've "stepped up" and "corrected the problem" appear to be planted. It's particularly interesting when folks who've never posted before start showing up extolling the virtues of BenQ. I'm sorry, but it smacks of a sponsored marketing campaign, but I'm sure that just me. ;)

...Guys, what do you think ? If you were at my place, would you even consider buying the PE7700 ?
- great dude

No.

I am considering buying the BenQ PE7700 because of its great performances and because its throw ratio is small (1.36), so I will be able to project a large image (110" diagonal) in my room.

I know this PJ had/has a bulb pb, but after reading that thread I realize that BenQ has been aware of the pb since quite some time and seems to be working really hard to fix it. My point of view is that the last fix (firmware+bulb upgrade) probably resolved it for good. And even if it's not the case, they they will probably fix it definitively next time (so worst case I will go through 1 premature bulb change).

Guys, what do you think ? If you were at my place, would you even consider buying the PE7700 ? My other choices are: Optoma HD72 or Panasonic AE900U, that's the only 2 other similar PJ I have been able to find in this price range (less than $2000).

- great dude

It's a tough choice. Because of the problems with the benq I'm of the mind now that buying a new model PJ is somewhat risky, especially given aggressive release schedules where a new model for a specific class are released aproximately once a year. This applies to the Optoma HD72 and to a lesser degree, the AE900. I think the jury is still out on those machines from a reliability point of view. I would certainly strongly consider getting an extended warranty if I were to buy again.

On the other hand the PE7700 has been around since April 2005 and most problems with it are now known. I believe benq has stepped up to the plate on this lamp issue and I believe they will continue to do so, probably up to the end of their 3 year warranty. I've had the pe7700 since last May and have reason to believe Benq will continue to support me. I've only had one outright lamp failure and had a lamp replaced due to flicker (along with firmware upgrade). My story might not be quite the same if I've had three or four failures as some of us have had.

If I was starting from scratch right now I would avoid the benq for a couple of more months. If you opt for the others, make sure you get a good supported warranty. I've owned an X1 with no issues really, why not consider the new Infocus models. It seems to me they have a longer product cycle. Perhaps their R&D and testing is more reliable?

Given the track record of reliability with the PE7700, I would not only NOT recommend this projector to anybody, I would actually 100% discourage them from buying it. The only person that would not mind buying it, is somebody with nothing but time on their hands, no social life, friends, or family, wants to pursue another career as a bulb changer, or somebody with a warped mind who enjoys torture, or who enjoys betting against himself on when the damn piece of junk will die.

Even the Yugo sedan looked good before you drove it, or it died on the road.

Here are my most recent thoughts on this.. As I see it, this has been the sequence of events:

Comments in italics are my PURE speculation, since I'm not a BenQ insider..

1) March 2005 - Projector is released
2) April 2005 - I bought my PE7700 (FYI)
3) May 2005 - Significant # of bulb issues begin appearing
BenQ is scrambling to determine what the problem is.. they look at the "damage assessment" of what happened, and get a newly designed bulb to be produced that seems to mitigate that symptom
4) August 2005 - Newly designed bulbs are introduced
Bulbs continue to blow in the coming months, though possibly lasting a bit longer. They determine that there must be some other issue, and find out that the bulbs they received were not the spec they expected for their projector, and what they programmed (firmware) it for initially. This requires a fix to every projector.
5) January 2006 - Firmware update created (dealers notified?)
6) February 2006 - FAQ posted, CSRs now told to have owners of PE7700s send in for firmware update to fix voltage issue as well as replacement bulb
7) May 2006 - The number of bulb failures for those that got upgraded to the 0.48 firmware is a good indicator of whether the issue is fixed. However, this requires both those that are having problems as well as those who haven't, to post their bulb hours and results.

This partially assumes that BenQ Dude is giving facts, which I'm not going to wholeheartedly put my faith in, but is nevertheless a reasonable explanation. I have 140 hours now on the new firmware, and time will tell. I'm not going to do anything different with the settings, e.g. high altitude mode or economy/full.

In short, let's wait to pass judgement until a few months after getting the fix where we can make more educated and imperical statements. BenQ basically attempted one fix which failed (but is a reasonable one to attempt -- bulbs are blown, so try and get a differently designed bulb), and are now trying a second fix. I'm partially playing devil's advocate, and partially trying to make some logical sense of what BenQ may have been thinking throughout this process. I will say that this is their last chance with me, though.

One final comment about the swap & upgrade for the 8720 "deal".. These projectors aren't even close to the same price range. It'd be like offering a tradeup from a Sony HS51 (but one with a history of bulb problems) to a Sony Ruby...

Oh, and to "great dude", I'd wait until May 2006 so you can see whether the firmware is seeming to fix the problem.

"In short, lets wait to pass judgement until a few months after getting the fix where we can make more educated and imperical statements. "

Agreed. As I've said before. I have not yet heard of an instance where Benq / Toshiba has failed to replacement a prematurely failed lamp outside of its warranty.

In short, lets wait to pass judgement until a few months after getting the fix where we can make more educated and imperical statements. BenQ basically attempted one fix which failed (but is a reasonable one to attempt -- bulbs are blown, so try and get a differently designed bulb), and are now trying a second fix. I'm partially playing devil's advocate, and partially trying to make some logical sense of what BenQ may have been thinking throughout this process. I will say that this is their last chance with me, though.

I totally agree! We should all keep track of how the upgrade and new lamps affect their life span, and keep everyone informed, so we can all make intelligent decisions as to whether this is an actual fix or just a smoke screen!!

It seems like everybody is just throwing out comments without thinking right now. . .

The Yugo Sedan never looked good.





Even the Yugo sedan looked good before you drove it, or it died on the road.

It seems like everybody is just throwing out comments without thinking right now. . .

The Yugo Sedan never looked good.

Originally Posted by jake123

Even the Yugo sedan looked good before you drove it, or it died on the road.

I guess beauty must be in the eyes of the beholder!

this forum cracks me up.

I have an upgraded Pe7700, 2nd new bulb..so about 400 hrs of free bulb life..and the latest and greatest firmware. I have lost about 3 wks of projector usage (unfortunately that included 90% of the Olympics, but that is every 2 yrs right?)

The picture is awesome, I am watching movies and HD shows.

Life is good. AND I really dont care what they did to my projector, I just dont want it to fail again, but I am not thinking about it.

Ah yes, even a Yugo can be stunning if you dress it up, or even better, buy a flashy car kit and change the body entirely. It would look like a pro racing car, but alas, it still would be a Yugo inside. Put lipstick on a pig, and watch it sell too. A little humor helps lift the spirit in this continuing saga.

Yugos actually hold many racing records across the world. According to the wiki anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugo

Still pretty ugly in my book.

Put me into the tracking list. Got my PE7700 upgraded to 0.48 version and new bulb design change on 20/Feb/2006. Currently I'm around 30 hours usage and I'm going to watch my whole movie collection again cause I just change my speaker from Mission M7 series to B&W 603 S3 series. My previous bulb flicker at 300 hrs usage and burn at 420 hrs.

Anyone still notice flicker after certain hours using the new bulb?

I've noticed flicker now on three of the re-designed bulbs. The first after about 300 hours and the last two under twenty hours each. The most recent incidence is with the new firmware as well. I find that you can induce flickering if you switch frequently (as part of the tweaking exercise) to different modes, i.e. Cinema to Home theater then back again. I run the lamp in Economy mode. It doesn't appear to happen in High lamp mode. It's mostly a nuisance. It will go away if you switch it temporarily to high mode then back again. I also find that if you leave the Picture mode settings alone after the PJ is turned on it will be fine and doesn't flicker at all. I'm not sure if this is something to be concerned about or not. I'm going to live with it and see if something more serious turns up. Benq did replace the 300 hour lamp when I described the problem to them.

On the topic of free hours of bulb usage. I had about 550 on two bulbs. Also, I now have two new bulbs, one is a spare, all supplied at no charge by Benq.

yeah, the spare is very comforting to have...

this forum cracks me up.

I have an upgraded Pe7700, 2nd new bulb..so about 400 hrs of free bulb life..and the latest and greatest firmware. I have lost about 3 wks of projector usage (unfortunately that included 90% of the Olympics, but that is every 2 yrs right?)

The picture is awesome, I am watching movies and HD shows.

Life is good. AND I really dont care what they did to my projector, I just dont want it to fail again, but I am not thinking about it.

Must be nice!

On my first bulb, I was out of a projector for THREE WEEKS.

Now with the firmware update, I've been out of my projector since FEBRUARY 16th. We're coming up on ONE MONTH OF MY PROJECTOR SITTING >>>AT BENQ!!!!!!<<<

BenQ STILL HASN'T SHIPPED MY PROJECTOR BACK. Phone call -->TWELVE<-- to them, and they still don't know when it's going to get shipped out.

YOU'RE DARN RIGHT I want to sue! QExchange is *not* being honored (I was told flat out NO when I wanted a QExchange), that's a FLAGRENT BREACH OF CONTRACT!


What reason do I have to be *satisfied* with how BenQ is treating me? I've had the projector eight months. Of those eight months, the projector has spent approximately TWO of them at BenQ! I DO NOT CONSIDER 25% OF THE TOTAL OWNERSHIP TIME BEING SPENT AT THE MANUFACTURER GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE, AND NEITHER SHOULD ANYONE!!!

It's not hard. If you offer a quick exchange program, you have to HONOR it. BenQ is neither being "quick" nor "exchanging" ANYTHING.

PISSED OFF, and your darn right I'm going to sue! I don't have anything to lose, as I don't have a working projector now!

Anyone plan on taking advantage of the replacement they are offering? I read it on the TVAuthority email, saying that BenQ is offering a $2000 credit for trading in a 7700 for an 8720. It also includes an additional $500 instant rebate from TVA. Even though its a decent deal I don't know if I am inclined to pay the difference. Looking at the specs, yes its true the 8720 has an outstanding contrast ratio, a larger color wheel, and darkchip 3; but its rated at 1000 ANSI lumens, while the 7700 is slightly brighter at 1100. I seriously doubt the Mrs. would agree to such a trade.

Do any of you find the picture to be a little "softer" with the updated firmware? It may have just been the last two movies I watched "Batman Begins" & "Garden State". (both great films BTW)

For those of you sending your units in for the firmware upgrade, take a moment and write down the values associated with the fan and ballast voltages from the service menu. I no longer have the projector for reference, but there are about 6 different voltage values in that section.

Compare the numbers when the unit gets back to see if there really has been any change to the fan or ballast settings. This would be at least one indication of whether the upgrade is any more than a few PQ tweaks.

I sure would love those blacks, but HD-DVD is hitting this month ;) so waiting for a reasonable 1080p projector seems much smarter.

ditto

What is the normal turnaround time for getting the projector back?

I sent mine in on the 17th of Feb. Yesterday I got an email from the CSR who told me I'd have it by the end of last week saying it hasn't been shipped yet. So who knows. :confused:

Anyone plan on taking advantage of the replacement they are offering? I read it on the TVAuthority email, saying that BenQ is offering a $2000 credit for trading in a 7700 for an 8720. It also includes an additional $500 instant rebate from TVA. Even though its a decent deal I don't know if I am inclined to pay the difference. Looking at the specs, yes its true the 8720 has an outstanding contrast ratio, a larger color wheel, and darkchip 3; but its rated at 1000 ANSI lumens, while the 7700 is slightly brighter at 1100. I seriously doubt the Mrs. would agree to such a trade.

The upgrade will actually cost you $3500, that's not an upgrade to me, it's like buying a new projector! I don't know what the picture quality is like on the 8720 but the 7700 has a great picture as far as I am concerned, and I don't know if the picture difference would be worth $3500 more. But that's all subjective, it might be worth it to some, not me!!

For those of you sending your units in for the firmware upgrade, take a moment and write down the values associated with the fan and ballast voltages from the service menu. I no longer have the projector for reference, but there are about 6 different voltage values in that section.

Compare the numbers when the unit gets back to see if there really has been any change to the fan or ballast settings. This would be at least one indication of whether the upgrade is any more than a few PQ tweaks.

How do I access that info? I would like to do just that, and keep track of all the new upgrades, thanks!

Upgrading to the 8720 for $3500 isnt an option for me either. So far I am 0-2 with Benq projectors. My 8700 died after 8months, they exchanged it for 7700 which died after 220hrs of usage. If they can fix the 7700 I will wait for a reasonably priced 1080p projector. I am positive I will not buy another BENQ projector.

Mr Crackers

I totally agree with you! I'm actually surprised to hear that you had problems with the 8700 also. I had one also but sold it because I wanted to purchase the 7700, mainly for the 3000 lamp life, how ironic huh! The main reason for my purchase is their main problem.

What's really funny, if you notice, they exchanged the higher priced 8700, for you, for the lower priced 7700, but will not exchange the 7700 for the 8720!!

I totally agree with bubbawilly. Check those values and note them before sending it out. Then check it when it comes back. I really believe the so-called "fix" in their firmware is to make normal work in economy mode, and economy mode to work in a sub economy mode. It would be hard to tell the difference for most of us since we won't have the before and after view of the projectors at the same time, nor the equipment to see the deviations. Yeah, its frustrating for all of us, being jerked around with story after story. We are not going to lay down for them. If their "fix" really fixes, great. That is all we wanted, a projector that works. If it doesn't, they can give us back our money, or upgrade us to the 8720, as a goodwill gesture which will cost them little since they are the manufactors. If not, I will pursue it in court, and give them back some of the misery they have given us. The ball is on their courtyard now. The saga continues...

My projector with the new firmware seems brighter to me.

My Mustang had all sorts of problems, I think Ford should upgrade me to the GT. :o

My projector with the new firmware seems brighter to me.

My Mustang had all sorts of problems, I think Ford should upgrade me to the GT. :o

What do you think Ford would do if you had a car that had an engine that became non-functional every 500 or so miles - to the point where the engine needed to be replaced in each instance. Do you think they would keep replacing the engines or provide you with your money back or an equal (or better so you couldn't say you were screwed) value model?

Trust me, it would be cheaper for them to simply take back all the PE7700, and gives us the 8720 (not that I trust that one either), than to keep replacing bulbs for the duration of the 3 year warranty. I know that the bulb warranty is 90 days/500 hours, but if the problem persists, my sense it would be viewed as a system problem causing the bulbs to fail. Especially so, if the same bulb is not dying in other projectors. As for them eating the cost of upgrading to the 8720, it would not be anywhere near the MSRP of 7K out there now since they are the manufactor. I would not be surprised to find out that it costs them 1K to make the 8720, the rest is markup, marketing, etc, etc. Worse case is for them to lose in a class action case, then they would pay through the nose big time.

I agree that at the manufacturing cost level the difference in cost is minimal, since it is manufactured overseas, and since companies like Optoma can sell Darkchip3 projectors at half the price! If the lamp issue continues it would only make sense to replace the 7700 with the 8720.

Yeah, now its kind of a cat and mouse game, will the fix work or not. Time will tell, and if its going to fail, it will probably happen as fast as their last fix "the new bulb". I know there's a recent post of light flickering with the "new fix".

You know whats funny...on their web site, they claim the older PE7700 will have shorter lamp life "under some environmental conditions". OK, I can now see it coming...we are to blame. I guess its because we live in the desert, the north pole, underwater, in a dust bowl, or we all place our projectors inside the ovens, chimney, or in a steam bath. Wow, and I thought all along it was the projector. Yeah, OK...piss on me and tell me its raining, I'm an idiot.

It's more likely that BenQ will stall (assuming the firmware fix is another stall tactic) until they release a budget 720P/768P BrilliantColor projector, and then offer it up as a replacement to the 7700. That replacement would satisfy many (based on the BC hype) for having the latest and 'greatest,' and the budget dual mode chip will significantly ease the financial pain for BenQ in swapping out the 7700.

You have to figure that if those new units are selling for just under $2K, they probably cost about $700 to build, whereas the 8720 is 3 times that.

Yeah maybe, I'm sure the bean counters are working overtime at BenQ. I'm just very curious as to see how far they will go if the "fix" fixes nothing. Then again, we in our hostile "enviromental conditions" are to blame, right?

It's more likely that BenQ will stall (assuming the firmware fix is another stall tactic) until they release a budget 720P/768P BrilliantColor projector, and then offer it up as a replacement to the 7700. That replacement would satisfy many (based on the BC hype) for having the latest and 'greatest,' and the budget dual mode chip will significantly ease the financial pain for BenQ in swapping out the 7700.

You have to figure that if those new units are selling for just under $2K, they probably cost about $700 to build, whereas the 8720 is 3 times that.

I seriously doubt that the 8720 costs 3 times as much, they are probably manufactured in Taiwan, China, or Malaysia. Why do you think Walmart primarily deals with China? Why is so much manufacturing going overseas? Cheap labor and everyone knows it! The profit margin for electronics is huge, especially when they are manufactured overseas, we all know that! Most of these companies put a ridiculous retail price on there products just to see what the market will accept. Then it finally reaches an acceptable level, sometimes as little as 25% of the original retail price, and they still make a great profit. Benq could probably exchange every 7700 for an 8720 and still not lose a penny!! Have you ever seen a $20.00 pair of pants sell at Walmart that was originally manufactured overseas by someone that was paid .25 cents an hour, or is it a day! That's reality, unfortunately!

Hi guys,

I have been following this thread for some time and very aware of the bulb issue. My unit is manufactured in Jan 06 and firmware ver of 0.48. Current lamp hours is less than 10 hrs :) Hope BenQ had resolved the bulb issue.

I have another concern though, its the motion artifacts I see on the 7700. Not all dvds but most of them. I dont know if its temporal dithering,false contouring or combing effect but artifacts are obvious especially on close up shots of moving faces. Do you guys noticed this effect? My pioneer dvd player is set to output progressive through the component input of 7700. Have tried interlace and let the Senseye do the job of deinterlacing, it is slightly better but not eliminating the artifacts. One thing though, I dont like the colours projected (too much green)when my dvd player is set to interlace.

Would like some advice if I could reduce/minimize these artifacts through some settings?

Currently using cinema mode with the following settings:

Contrast 0
Brightness 0
Colour 0
Tint 0
Filter 1
Sharpness 0

My projector is also Jan 06, 0.48, and I also get the same "false contouring"/ "motion dithering". The contours of peoples faces, during close-ups, when the camera is panning. Very visible during American Idol when they do the pan across the judges panel or the contestants.

BTW, I also have that "green tinge" in HDMI/720p from my HD STB.

Were you able to fix this?

My projector is also Jan 06, 0.48, and I also get the same "false contouring"/ "motion dithering". The contours of peoples faces, during close-ups, when the camera is panning. Very visible during American Idol when they do the pan across the judges panel or the contestants.

BTW, I also have that "green tinge" in HDMI/720p from my HD STB.

Were you able to fix this?

I have switched back to progressive scan output form my pioneer dvd player reason being I see macroblocking when I let Benq does the deinterlacing. Progressive output from the player gives much lesser picture noise, no macroblocking, no green tinge and better contrast. The only advantage I observed using Benq internal deinterlacer is that I see less combing on faces.

One thing though, no matter it's pioneer's deinterlacing or Benq's, I still see false contouring on some panning scenes. I dont think this is related to the firmware version of the BenQ, Before I got my current unit, I was using a demo unit from the retailer for 2 weeks(firmware version of 0.44, July). I saw false contouring on it. This seems to be a single chip DLP issue.
I've read somewhere in this forum that using a upscaling dvd player(720P) will reduce/eliminate the false contouring though I did not verify.

Hmmm. Weird. I am sending a progressive (and a HD 720) signal to the 7700 and I do get the green tinge as well as the false contouring from the HD STB. I have doubts that doing the same thing (720p) from a DVD player, instead of a STB, solves the problem. Just to check it out, I just went out and purchased a Sony DVP-NS70H upscaling DVD player and will check it out tonight. Whatever the results, it wont solve the problem from the STB side. You may be right, the false contouring could be a DLP issue that we all have to live with. As for the green tinge, I'll finally be able to run AVIA through the HDMI port and calibrate (color decoder) that input properly, which should help the green tinge problem.

This is kinda troubling. I called customer service today to check on the status of my RMA. They said they don't have any record of receiving my projector. According to UPS the projector was signed for on the 28th of Feb. The customer service rep said that they have so many projectors coming in that they can't keep up. I am fearful that it is going to take more than a month to get it back. I guess a lot of people living in "bad environments" bought these projectors.

Hmmm. Weird. I am sending a progressive (and a HD 720) signal to the 7700 and I do get the green tinge as well as the false contouring from the HD STB. I have doubts that doing the same thing (720p) from a DVD player, instead of a STB, solves the problem. Just to check it out, I just went out and purchased a Sony DVP-NS70H upscaling DVD player and will check it out tonight. Whatever the results, it wont solve the problem from the STB side. You may be right, the false contouring could be a DLP issue that we all have to live with. As for the green tinge, I'll finally be able to run AVIA through the HDMI port and calibrate (color decoder) that input properly, which should help the green tinge problem.


Do let us know if using the upscaling Sony player reduce the false contouring..thanks!

I'm a little concerned as to what is going on with the 7700 issue. I noticed today that Benq has completely changed the look of their Global web site. Originally the home page opened up to show a large graphic display of the PE7700, with a link to it, all of a sudden it is nowhere to be found! I'd like to know why? Makes me wonder!!!

I'm a little concerned as to what is going on with the 7700 issue. I noticed today that Benq has completely changed the look of their Global web site. Originally the home page opened up to show a large graphic display of the PE7700, with a link to it, all of a sudden it is nowhere to be found! I'd like to know why? Makes me wonder!!!

To get out from under this problem they may have to do more than change their web page - they may have to change their name.

I finally located it, it's still there, it just looks like they are not showing it anymore on their main home page like before. You have to go into some of the sub menu's. It's funny because that was the first thing you noticed on the maun page before, not anymore!

This is kinda troubling. I called customer service today to check on the status of my RMA. They said they don't have any record of receiving my projector. According to UPS the projector was signed for on the 28th of Feb. The customer service rep said that they have so many projectors coming in that they can't keep up. I am fearful that it is going to take more than a month to get it back. I guess a lot of people living in "bad environments" bought these projectors.

That's exactly the same thing that happened to my projector. It sat for eleven days on their *dock*, until I finally managed to wring the name and number of the shipping dock manager out of the help desk.

Gave her a call, and a two hour search of their dock later, they had found my PJ.

Of course, that's the *story*. Somehow, my projector turned from a firmware upgrade and swap into a complete replacement. So I'm wondering if someone on the dock has sticky fingers?

Your best bet is to make SURE you don't lose your UPS shipping receipt / tracking number!

Give them another day or two, and if they haven't found it, send me a private message and I'll give you the name and number of the shipping dock lady, AS LONG AS you treat her nicely. She was the *only* person who could get my RMA "found". (All the BS hassle aside, she did me right, so I have to give her props for that!)

Ohh Man I order 7700 today and I found this tread after words Should I stop delivery for my projector and ask for other one please help me I am new to Projector I can not belive that I miss this thread and place order for 7700 today noon time please help me should i stop my order !!!!

Ohh Man I order 7700 today and I found this tread after words Should I stop delivery for my projector and ask for other one please help me I am new to Projector I can not belive that I miss this thread and place order for 7700 today noon time please help me should i stop my order !!!!

Personally, I would.

What other projector options do you have with that dealer?

Panasonic 900 or some thing else I have to think any help in this direction that will be appreciated. I am looking some thing in between 1500 to 2000 $ !!! Thanks Man I can not belive that this is happing with me ...

I returned my 7700 for the Panasonic.

The absolute black level on the 7700 is slightly better than the Panasonic, and contrast is marginally better as well, but I quit noticing the difference in less than a week. Every other aspect of the two projectors is about equal, with the nod going to the Panasonic for color accuracy and lack of picture noise and artifacts.

Thanks I have to statr my process and make sure they ship Panasonic What's going with BenQ as i read that it's oing bad that mean it will stop running of jut lamp is going bad ...

Just the lamp was blowing, but they have a fix in place. So far so good with it. I have over 150 hours and no problems. You may have been fine, but no reason to take a chance. If I was buying a projector now I would step down to the Optoma h31 and save the extra for my next projector when 1080 becomes cheaper in a year or so.
Warren.

I finally located it, it's still there, it just looks like they are not showing it anymore on their main home page like before. You have to go into some of the sub menu's. It's funny because that was the first thing you noticed on the maun page before, not anymore!

Not sure I would read into that....I know we change our home page very often as to what is highlighted.

Anyway, after I went to the PE7700, I went to the FAQ. A few notes in the light failure FAQ that I dont recall before. did it always state exactly what the fix was? It says 1. replace bulb, 2. upgrade firmware...I dont recall it saying that before.

Also, there is a banner on the page showing the 'deal' they are offering of giving them your PE7700 and getting a 8720 for $3500. Since you can buy an 8720 for $4500, that is like selling your 7700 for $1k....not very good resale.

Thanks I have to statr my process and make sure they ship Panasonic What's going with BenQ as i read that it's oing bad that mean it will stop running of jut lamp is going bad ...

BenQ claims to have a fix in place, but they've promised that at least once before, and their OEM partner (Toshiba) doesn't seem to be aware of any fix.

Only time will tell, and it's far too soon to judge.

Ohh Man I order 7700 today and I found this tread after words Should I stop delivery for my projector and ask for other one please help me I am new to Projector I can not belive that I miss this thread and place order for 7700 today noon time please help me should i stop my order !!!!

If I were you I would wait awhile and see how the new upgrade helps the lamp life. The picture quality is great with the 7700, the only problem to date with it is that the lamps are going out prematurely. If that is fixed with the new firmware upgrade then this projector will give you a great picture for the money!

I would also like to ask anyone how to access the service menu to be able to get all of the settings needed to compare them for the before and after upgrade changes?

Do let us know if using the upscaling Sony player reduce the false contouring..thanks!

Well, I hooked up the Sony last night and ran AVIA @ 720p via HDMI. I was able to get rid of the green tinge on the HDMI input. Good.

As for the false contouring, I was not able to replicate the problem as I see it while watching AI. However, AI is one of the only shows where I can REALLY see it. Other HD shows are not as problematic.

I tried the Sony @ 720p and @ 1080i and I preferred the 1080i, which means that the 7700 was doing the deinterlacing. BenQ's deinterlacer seems better (to me) than the Sony's. Less jaggies and, stranglely, less MPEG artifacts were visible @ 1080i than @ 720p. I also tried my HD STB @ 1080i (instead of fixed @ 720p) and I also get less jaggies. Everything seems smoother. However, I don't know if its my eyes that were playing tricks on me or what, but I found that 1080i was giving me a little bit less details than 720p. Could this be attributed to a 1080i -> 540 -> 720p conversion in the 7700?

BenQ claims to have a fix in place, but they've promised that at least once before, and their OEM partner (Toshiba) doesn't seem to be aware of any fix.

Only time will tell, and it's far too soon to judge.

They may not be aware, but when I sent mine in the replaced the bulb and upgraded the firmware.

Stripe: Try setting your Sony to 720p and your BenQ to the "REAL" aspect ratio -- in theory that should give you the best picture because you've matched the output of the Sony to the native resolution of the BenQ. Using the resolution tests on the Accupel, 720p looks better than 1080i when the BenQ is set to "REAL."

Kevin, I did try setting the Sony @ 720p and the 7700 on the Real mode and found that the jaggies were more visible than at 1080i. Could that simply mean that the BenQ's deinterlacer is better than the Sony's? If this is the case, what would I gain/lose by setting the Sony @ 720p and having it deinterlace more poorly vs setting it at 1080i BUT sending the 7700 non-native rez?

I find that REAL mode leaves a small black line at the top of my screen with my HD cable...this is not the case with standard sized DVD (obviously with wider screen DVDs, 2.35:1 etc., I get big black lines...duh) or my startup screen.

Makes me glad I got the iScan HD+.
You could try the overscan setting Jim.

I just watched Toshiba's HD-DVD demo last night. Holy smokes is that nice. I just can't wait. My wife isn't too happy though.
Warren.

Warren, were you able to see how the Toshiba did upscaling standard DVDs? Or, was that feature locked out? I'm trying to determine whether to be an early adopter of the HD-A1 and sell my Oppo to help defray the cost.

Oh, I will be an early adopter for sure. They didn't show the upscaling. They did say it doesn't support DVD Audio, so I will be keeping my Panny 97s hooked up. 1080i only, which sucks. I asked if it did 1080p and he says there are few tv's that handle that. I explained my 37" Westinghouse LCD does. He was sceptical till I explained I use it for a computer monitor. The funny thing was as you walk in the door the first thing you see is a RP tv box with a big 1080P on the front. They are getting less rare every day. It still looked astounding. They demoed it on a tosh DLP rear projector TV. I really can't wait for 1080p projectors now.
Warren.

Woohoo!!!! My PE7700 is back from repair. Went in on fri Feb 24th UPS did not deliver it until Wed the March 1st, I guess fri and the weekend does not count towards the second day air........................OH well, who cares. Great Job on the turn around time benq NOW if she just holds up I'll be a happy camper. :) :) OR maybe I'll take up camping if she breaks again. LOL

Congratulations checklst. I am going to watch "Walk the Line" tonight on my (new bulb and firmare) MT700.

I just noticed that Visual Apex stopped selling the PE7700. IIRC they were still selling it 2 or 3 days ago, but now their website indicates "Bulb^H^H^H^HNo Longer Available". How weird :p

- great dude

I just noticed that Visual Apex stopped selling the PE7700. IIRC they were still selling it 2 or 3 days ago, but now their website indicates "Bulb^H^H^H^HNo Longer Available". How weird :p

- great dude
So did Visual stop selling it as did another forum sponser months ago or is BenQ pulling the plug on the 7700 ?

I think it only makes sense for these companies to drop BenQ like a hot potato. I think they know that eventually BenQ will stop giving away free bulbs and then both BenQ and the vendors that sold them will be named in MANY MANY law suits.

That is a little overboard there. They have a large line of great products for good prices. One defect in one product, that they are trying very hard to fix, doesn't justify killing the company.
Warren.

I have to remain optomistic that Toshiba/BenQ will come up with the correct fix before the 2-3 yr. warranty expires.

I am optimistic that they already have. If not I will trade for one of their 1080p projectors before the warranty is up.
Warren.

That is a little overboard there. They have a large line of great products for good prices. One defect in one product, that they are trying very hard to fix, doesn't justify killing the company.
Warren.

Think about it. You are a vendor selling a product from a manufacturer that has a clearly defective product. The manufacturer is doing everything possible to appease their customers EXCEPT fixing, refunding or replacing the product. That is NOT the type of company I would partner up with. I would much prefer dealing with a company like Panasonic or Sony.

I believe one can tell a GOOD company from one that should “be killed” by how they handle a product WITH a problem. It’s easy to deal with all those good products at good prices with NO PROBLEMS. Any idiot could do that.

But they did fix the problem, and I love my 7700. Sony and Panasonic have nothing to compete in my book. I really doubt Sony or Panasonic would handle a defect any better than BenQ either. Rootkit anyone? "why should users care if we have spyware on their computers"
Warren.

"The manufacturer is doing everything possible to appease their customers EXCEPT fixing, refunding or replacing the product."

Another overboard statement. Maybe it appears that way to you.

From what I have seen, they have never refused to replace a bulb when it was thought that the only issue was a design flaw with the bulb.

Subsequent to that they have posted an acknowledgement of the problem on their web site and are fixing the defective projectors at no cost to the customer.

Why are you assuming that the problem isn't fixed or that BENQ is out to screw everyone? You know what they say about assume.

I am sorry but if you are a mega corporation like benq and you build a product with a very small user base (say a $2000 dlp projector) and its defective but the defect does not cause any loss of life or property you could afford to send each user a picture of the ceo giving them the finger and it wouldn't make a blip on your stock prices or your sales. This is not going to kill there company.

I think some of you need to step outside and get a good look at the real world.

Furthermore I think benq is doing the right thing. They have acknowledged the problem and have released a fix. So far the fix is working and until it has been proven otherwise they have done everything they need to do. If the fix doesn't work then we will see what happens next.

It seems like there are a lot of people that think there is some great conspiracy here. Why would any company spend the money to ship thousands of projectors to a repair shop where they then have to pay a tech at least 20 minutes pay per projector to apply the fix and then pay to ship it back if they were not confident it was going to work? Why would they want to pay that charge all over again? They would just simply say yes there is a problem and we are working on it until it was fixed.

Think about it. You are a vendor selling a product from a manufacturer that has a clearly defective product. The manufacturer is doing everything possible to appease their customers EXCEPT fixing, refunding or replacing the product. That is NOT the type of company I would partner up with. I would much prefer dealing with a company like Panasonic or Sony.

I believe one can tell a GOOD company from one that should “be killed” by how they handle a product WITH a problem. It’s easy to deal with all those good products at good prices with NO PROBLEMS. Any idiot could do that.

I think we all can tell a good company from a bad one. I would like to know how you can tell that Panasonic or Sony would take care of any problems in a better way? Benq is doing what it needs to do up to this point! They have been replacing lamps without question and are addressing the issue, in other words they are honoring their warranty. I also believe that if the upgrade will not solve the problem they probably will still keep honoring their warranty no matter what the fix might be.

The only inconvenience is that people are out of a projector for a certain length of time and maybe some money if they ordered a pay per view sporting event and it went out during the event. That's the only place that I see they could compensate their customers a little more by sending them a 2nd. lamp for their loss! Other than that, they are taking care of the problem without question. Hopefully once we send it in for the upgrade and new lamp the problem will go away!

Hopefully once we send it in for the upgrade and new lamp the problem will go away!

Why doesnt everyone just relax until we determine if this fix is working? It appears some are certainly more pissed off than others and are pretty much assuming this fix will not work only because they dont understand the fix completely.

Now, if we start getting failures after this fix, the war begins again...but for now, it is working.

Why dont we start a tweaking thread for this projector...I would rather subscribe to that then all this bashing and moaning.

Great Idea smithsonga. I wouldnt mind seing some configurations people are using (pre firmware for now). I am a bit color blind so I don't realy want to start making changes to the default configuration without some help.

Why dont we start a tweaking thread for this projector...I would rather subscribe to that then all this bashing and moaning.

Amen! (from a MT700 owner).

[QUOTE=CRS59]I think we all can tell a good company from a bad one. I would like to know how you can tell that Panasonic or Sony would take care of any problems in a better way? Benq is doing what it needs to do up to this point! They have been replacing lamps without question and are addressing the issue, in other words they are honoring their warranty. I also believe that if the upgrade will not solve the problem they probably will still keep honoring their warranty no matter what the fix might be.



Truth is, if BenQ continued to produce a bad product, then there would be grounds to call them a bad company. One defect out all the products that they make and even oem to other companies is not bad. You would probably be surprised if you found out who sells BenQ under a different name. The only reason this hit so hard is because it is such a high end product. You can't even say that they are not honoring their warranty by not offering the advanced replacement. Take a look at the warranty. It states, "Based on stock availability". A company based in Taiwan cannot get stock overnight to the US. Especially when anything they get in, goes directly to distributors to replace the defective units from them. They have been trying to do what they can to help all of you out.

Why doesnt everyone just relax until we determine if this fix is working? It appears some are certainly more pissed off than others and are pretty much assuming this fix will not work only because they dont understand the fix completely.

Now, if we start getting failures after this fix, the war begins again...but for now, it is working.

Why dont we start a tweaking thread for this projector...I would rather subscribe to that then all this bashing and moaning.

Now, if we start getting failures after this fix, the war begins again...but for now, it is working.

Why don't we start a tweaking thread for this projector...I would rather subscribe to that then all this bashing and moaning.[/QUOTE]

Amen better word were never spoken. I just put mine back up on the mount, I took a lot of shots with my digital camera before the bulb blew and the firmware up date. I will take the same shots tonight and see if their is a difference.

I agree with most Benq from the start has stood behind MY PE7700 100% and has given great service beyond what was expected.

However as for the conspiracy theory I did see ELVIS at Burger king last night........LOL

It seems like there are a lot of people that think there is some great conspiracy here. Why would any company spend the money to ship thousands of projectors to a repair shop where they then have to pay a tech at least 20 minutes pay per projector to apply the fix and then pay to ship it back if they were not confident it was going to work? Why would they want to pay that charge all over again? They would just simply say yes there is a problem and we are working on it until it was fixed.

That's the most coherent argument I've seen posted in a while. And you have to give credit where it's due, in that recalling ALL of the PE7700's isn't a cheap proposition. Heck, the shipping alone is $40/each! Figure the tech time, plus parts, and you're looking at at least $100 per PE7700.

...and then throw in a new bulb on top of it.

---------

And now, on a different track... Has anyone else who had the updated firmware noticed the increased fan noise? I'm NOT complaining, because in my mind increased fan noise means more air which means hopefully a cooler running bulb which again hopefully means a bulb that makes it past...

well... you know where that's going. :)


In any case, I put up my PE7700 (which is brand spankin' new; guess my theory of "sticky fingers" in the shipping department was RIGHT! YIKES!!) last night, and it sure seems noisier. Not a whole heck of a lot noisier, but *some*. (again, not complaining, just observing!)

On the bright side, I now have a spare pe7700 remote and another set of cables I can't use. :)

Did you ever operate you pj on high altitude before you sent it in? If so is it noisier then that or about the same.

Did you ever operate you pj on high altitude before you sent it in? If so is it noisier then that or about the same.
I always operated on high altitude (here in the Mile High City) and I notice NO difference in fan noise. I really can't say I notice anything different about the new firmware and bulb... other than it is still working fine!

I do kinda think it is just a bit louder. I don't mind though, and it is prettier.
Warren.

Sounds like the.....Stockholm Syndrome has appeared. While I appreciate the "efforts" by BenQ to "fix" it, it is to their best interest to do so. When they announced the previous "fix", everyone was happy for a while, and cheered BenQ. When the "new bulb" started going out too, the cheering stopped. Now they say they have a "new fix", and everyone is applauding. Just like the other "fix".

My problem with this whole scenario is that unlike us, BenQ has tons of resources, R&D facilities, state-of-the-art diagnostic equipment, and rocket scientists up the kazoo that can identify with complete certainty, what exactly is the problem. With that in mind, think for one minute, with all those capabilities, why did they not, or could not, determine what was wrong from the beginning. Each and every one of all of these parts and components have a rated value, tolerance, capacity, etc, etc. It is designed and engineered with that in mind. And if it were the bulb, wouldn't you think Osram would be in the loop as they are the bulb makers. They would have a stake in it, if it were the bulb. Obviously, Osram wasn't buying the bulb story as they continue making them for others. Yet, BenQ, insults us further by stating on their website "environmental conditions may cause the bulb to fail" Do we all like live in the North Pole, in the desert, or in a dust bowl?

Now that the bad bulb story is out the window, the reach is for the firmware as being the culprit. Now, before everyone starts screaming, I too hope that this is really, really, the problem. Having gone through 4 bulbs, and without it again now for a couple of weeks after sending it to BenQ, I really have no more patient. Who wants to spend time installing and uninstalling, packing it, and hours on the phone. Enough. We need to stop patting BenQ on the back like if they had done "a job well done". We are the victims here, not BenQ. This was not a "care package" or a prize we won. We paid 3K for this, not something skimpy for most of us. I simply have no faith in what they say at this point. Time will tell, again, and again.

...We need to stop patting BenQ on the back like if they had done "a job well done". We are the victims here, not BenQ...

So much for the positive tone of the last few posts. Frankly, I'm sick of the constant bashing, which only gets worse when a few people try to add some balance here.

We get it, you're pissed cause your lamp(s) failed. Apparently you're even more pissed now that Benq has a written acknowledgment posted of the problem and is offering a free fix.

Until we learn the outcome of the current fix I for one could do without the emotional vomit being posted here.

So you rather have your intelligence insulted when BenQ say on their website "that certain environmental conditions can cause the bulb to fail". Is that what you believe? If you believe that, you must be one of those living in the North Pole, desert, or in a dust bowl that BenQ talks about. This sorry explanation is an outright lie, period. You either have integrity or you don't. You can't have both ways. So far, BenQ has offered 3 explanations:

1. Oh...those bulbs were from a bad batch, the newer batch is OK.

2. Oh...we have a "newly designed" bulb that will fix the problem this time.

3. Oh...its a firmware problem, the new firmware will fix the problem once and for all.

If you want to say the "king has beautiful clothes" when he has none, that's your choice. I'm not taken in by all their sorry excuses. Take your rose colored glasses off. Fool me one, shame on you BenQ, fool me twice, shame on me.

And on top of all that .... it seems those that have bi..hed the loudest seem to have gotten their money back. That is real comforting. It seems as though there is NO HOPE for this product EVER working properly and they (BenQ) know it because you can't back engineer something like this.

I think we all know this. Some of us just cannot face the fact that this may be the biggest hurt we have EVER experienced in our lives.

I just don't buy into the idea that Benq & Toshiba are evil, that they're denying a problem for which they've had a known fix all along, and that they are intentionally misleading people.

The undisputed fact remains both companies are replacing lamps which have failed outside of warranty, and now Benq has publicly acknowledged the problem and has a fix. Time will tell if the fix actually works.

Apparently you're not fooled by this. Good for you. Don't have the fix done.

sigh

I think we all know this. Some of us just cannot face the fact that this may be the biggest scam we have EVER experienced in our lives.

Scam? Which part, where the lamps which have failed outside of warranty are being replaced free of charge? Or is it the part where Benq is acknolwedging the problem and offering a free fix. C'mon folks, these are not the actions of companies perpetrating a scam.

Scam? Which part, where the lamps which have failed outside of warranty are being replaced free of charge? Or is it the part where Benq is acknolwedging the problem and offering a free fix. C'mon folks, these are not the actions of companies perpetrating a scam.

I agree. Scam was a bad word for many of the reasons you described above. I changed it because I meant to imply something that they have done to us although not necessarily intentionally.

Read their explanation for the problems it says "environmental conditions may cause the bulb to fail". If this is not an out and out lie, I don't know what is. We all know, thats not the reason why this projector has failed. Read it. If you still feel they are being upfront and truthful, then I got a bridge or two to sell.

jake123...I have been in the market for a bridge or two for quite some time. Just like many of the other posters in this thread. I am glad I have been able to locate someone that has some available to purchase....

Which one, the Brooklyn Bridge or the George Washington? Both can be had for a good price. LOL.

But it is environmental.... the environment in which they were produced ;)


Anywho, this is clearly a case of the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Nothing wrong with my projector. I am approaching 600 hours. You all sound like whiney little babies to me.

:awaits flames:

Yeah, yeah, I know that wasn't very nice. Some of y'all have legitimate... very legitimate grievances against BenQ. But let's be realistic... all this "I'm so mad I'm being driven to post my rage in an internet forum" is getting old. I'm not about to pack up my projector or advocate that others pack up their projectors and file class action lawsuits against BenQ because all their projectors are "teh suck". Your projector sucks, not mine.

Nothing wrong with my projector. I am approaching 600 hours. You all sound like whiney little babies to me.



That's exactly what I was thinking.......

Until my first lamp BLEW at 633 :D :D :D

We'll hear from you soon!

That's exactly what I was thinking.......
Until my first lamp BLEW at 633 :D :D :D
We'll hear from you soon!

Huhuhu :)

On a more serious note, who has accumulated a lot of hours on a PE7700 with patched firmware + redesigned bulb ?

- great dude

That's exactly what I was thinking.......

Until my first lamp BLEW at 633 :D :D :D

We'll hear from you soon!

HA ha I was thinking "I know that I just 'jinxed' myself" as a hit the submit button.

Well then... good luck to us all.

My bulb has over 300 hours on it. So far so good. Great projector!

But I know it's going to blow before the 2,000 to 3,000 hour expected life.

So what?

Until it blows, I'll get the free use of the current bulb, and then send it in and get a new one under warranty and at no cost to me. Sounds okay to me.

My bulb has over 300 hours on it. So far so good. Great projector!

But I know it's going to blow...

So what?

Sounds okay to me.

Do you really think they will give FREE bulbs forever? NO WAY, NO WAY! Then YOU will be stuck with an expensive piece of equipment that MAY (based on the experience of everyone else out there including me) burn through $400 bulbs every 30-200 hours. That does not sound okay to me.

Do you really think they will give FREE bulbs forever? NO WAY, NO WAY! Then YOU will be stuck with an expensive piece of equipment that MAY (based on the experience of everyone else out there including me) burn through $400 bulbs every 30-200 hours. That does not sound okay to me.

This is one of my concerns from a upgrading/resale value point of view. If the "fix" (and/or any subsequent fixes) doesn't work, the resale value of our projectors will be minimal if there is still a known lamp problem.

has any re-calibrated their 7700 since the fix upgrade? I will be doing it this weekend and will report the differences, but even without doing it now, it seems very similar to what I was watching before....in cinema mode. In family room mode (for reference, I dont use it) the color was WOW...way to hot/warm...everyone was sunburnt etc.

More after it gets dark here...

"Do you really think they will give FREE bulbs forever? NO WAY, NO WAY! "

First of all, that's not even remotely close to what I wrote. You obviously like to twist things.

Of course, I plan on getting the current bulb replaced before the warranty period expires.

There is currently no evidence that their fix doesn't work, so why waste time venting spleen about it?

This is one of my concerns from a upgrading/resale value point of view. If the "fix" (and/or any subsequent fixes) doesn't work, the resale value of our projectors will be minimal if there is still a known lamp problem.

That is what is so disturbing about this issue. Not only is there no resale value for this unit but it is actually a liability...$400 per bulb.

Their recent "fix and new bulb" just went into effect. Yes, it is early in the game, but so was their other "fix". That also worked well until the floodgates opened and they all crashed too. I personally think that the firmware update (I refuse to call it an upgrade) is meant to just tweak the system, maybe running the fan higher, or lower lamp power. This will get most of them past a certain point, and then BenQ can say..."sorry, lamp bulbs are now beyond the warranty".

Last year, I had a similar problem with a PDA that kept crashing, very problematic, and made by one of the top makers. After six months of use, I emailed the CEO of the company, they called me two days later, apologized, and acknowledged problems with that particular PDA, and offered me their top of the line PDA in exchange. I asked how much more would this cost me as I knew that particular model cost several hundred bucks more, and they told me "not one penny more", and it would be new, not refurbished, with a new warranty.They FedEx it to me the next day, picked up the other one a week later to give me time to transfer data to the new one. I was impressed with the no-nonsense way they did business, upgrading to their top model for nothing, calling me and apologizing. Has anyone ever been called by BenQ? I'm sure the answer is a resounding NO.

If this other major company can do something like this, why can't BenQ try doing the same. These "fixes" by BenQ are only happening because of bad design or engineering. Not because as they state "environmental conditions". That is simply BS to string us along.

jake123,

That is exactly the way firms with a long term attitude towards business take care of their customers - and there are many. BenQ will probably turn out to be one of those "flash in the pan" type of firms because in any business it is hard to compete on price alone.

Wow, this thread is quite intense. For those of you in S. California, and would like to discuss the PE7700 or PE8720 directly with BENQ executives and technicans, feel free to ask them yourself directly today. The event is at 408 Broadway, Santa Monica, CA 90401 from 12:00-6:00pm PST.

As a consumer just like all of you, I'd be thrilled to air my frustrations or get answers directly from the source.

Not because as they state "environmental conditions". That is simply BS to string us along.

I've been thinking that "environmental conditions" equates to "on." If we leave them off, there is little chance of the lamp blowing.

Wow, this thread is quite intense. For those of you in S. California, and would like to discuss the PE7700 or PE8720 directly with BENQ executives and technicans, feel free to ask them yourself directly today. The event is at 408 Broadway, Santa Monica, CA 90401 from 12:00-6:00pm PST.

As a consumer just like all of you, I'd be thrilled to air my frustrations or get answers directly from the source.

If anyone does take advantage of this opportunity, please push for technical details as to exactly how the firmware revision fixes the lamp problem. Some of us MT700 owners are concerned that Toshiba hasn't figured out that firmware may be (or is) part of the problem. OTOH, maybe the Toshiba service activity has it figured out and BenQ is still fumbling around in the dark. Only time will tell.

I personally think that the firmware update (I refuse to call it an upgrade) is meant to just tweak the system, maybe running the fan higher, or lower lamp power. This will get most of them past a certain point, and then BenQ can say..."sorry, lamp bulbs are now beyond the warranty".


The problem with this statement and what some conveniently ignore is that Benq & Toshiba have both been replacing lamps which have failed outside their warranty.

...and now Benq has publicly acknowledged the problem and has a fix...

I'm not sure what bothers me more. Hearing the same people complain over and over, or reading the quote above.

Endulge me for a moment. My Ford truck had a 'potential' problem with the speed control module. Ford initiated a voluntary recall after thoroughly investigating the cause. Here's what they concluded and published for the public: "Ford's investigation found that brake fluid may leak through the speed control deactivation switch into the speed control system electrical components, potentially corroding them. In rare cases, the corrosion in the electrical components could lead to increasing resistance and higher electrical current flow through the system. Together, these conditions could lead to overheating and, possibly, a fire at the switch. This system interaction is the result of the close proximity and orientation of the speed control components in the recalled vehicles."

Now that's a "public acknowledgement." It's clear that Ford understood what their 'problem' actually was. There are also plenty of examples of CE manufacturers finding problems with their gear, issuing detailed explanations as to what they found, and taking the appropriate corrective action, not the least of which is notifying their CSR's as to what the hell is going on so that they can interact with the customer accordingly. It's all about "inspiring confidence."

Back on topic - BenQ's statement is vague at best. It is far from a clear "acknowledgement" of the problem. It may even make some wonder if BenQ actually knows what the problem is, and that, I believe, is what continues to fuel this fire. The innocuous FAQ, combined with the fact that the CSR's aren't all on the same page (some are reading a different book entirely), and they are the company's first line of defense in dealing with the consumer. All things considered, it is painfully easy to understand why BenQ has lost all credibility with some. No one seems to be in charge, despite their "new management."

It's evident from this thread that some are satisfied with BenQ's words (I personally don't feel that they are confident enough to qualify as a "statement"). It's also clear that other's are not satisfied. Just try and keep the rhetoric on both sides civil, or the mods will jump in and shut this valuable thread down. I'd like for it to remain alive until there is a definite resolution, one way or the other. ;)

**Disclaimer: I fully understand the difference between a premature lamp failure, and a problem that can pose a hazard to life or limb. Therefore, if you don't understand my analogy, or if you don't think that it applies, then simply ignore me please. :D

Out of All this hoopla, Does anyone know what the actual % of all 7700's sold that are having lamp problems?

Out of All this hoopla, Does anyone know what the actual % of all 7700's sold that are having lamp problems?

CBlaz,
According to a VP of BENQ sitting next to me here for our event today, less than 8% of the PE7700 projectors sold in the US have reported the defective bulb problem.

(my own opinion inserted here: I'm certainly not discounting the fact that 8% is a high number for defects -- especially for retailers who are forced to deal with this issue too. That being said, they are trying!)

They didn't replace lamps outside of the warranty per se, the lamp was clearly failing prematurely at an incredible high rate, not simply from "wear and tear". If it were within acceptable grounds, they would be on solid ground insofar as their bulb warranty is concerned. However, since they have now stated that the "culprit" is the firmware, the bulb warranty is no longer an issue because since the firmware was "faulty" from the initial design and manufacturing, and responsible, whether wholly or partially for the bulbs to fail.
This is basically what they are saying. Not that I take stock in what they are now saying, based on our experience from their previous explanations.

I am now going to unsubscribe to this thread and just enjoy my "fixed" projector.

Dennis,
Sorry to her you are leaving us. Will you at least check in once and awhile to let us know how things are going with the new firmware? Good Luck,
Steve

Out of All this hoopla, Does anyone know what the actual % of all 7700's sold that are having lamp problems?

If you'd read even the last 5 pages of this or the MT700 thread, then you would know that is is far too many. ;)

CBlaz,
According to a VP of BENQ sitting next to me here for our event today, less than 8% of the PE7700 projectors sold in the US have reported the defective bulb problem.

(my own opinion inserted here: I'm certainly not discounting the fact that 8% is a high number for defects -- especially for retailers who are forced to deal with this issue too. That being said, they are trying!)
Any way to take advantage of this great opportunity to get some technical insight/details from the BenQ representatives about "The Problem" ;) and how their current solution addresses it?

CBlaz,
According to a VP of BENQ sitting next to me here for our event today, less than 8% of the PE7700 projectors sold in the US have reported the defective bulb problem.

Since you "have his ear," you may mention that it would inspire a bit more confidence with his customers if he were to make sure that his more than 8% of his CSR's knew how to address this problem with customers, and to make sure that those CSR's knew more than 8% about the problem.

The misinformation and or lack of information emanating from his own company make for a great deal of delicious forum fodder.

Good luck with your event!

Neil,

I have place order for PE 7700 from your company on 8th March. After that I found this thread. I have concern about BenQ PE 7700 now after going thru all customers review about BenQ’s response from this thread. When I place order at that time I read from other sites that this model has some lamp issue so, I did discuss with your sells rep. And she mention that problem is fixed now, after I place order I found this tread and now I am have serious concerns about this product and BenQ’s customers service. And I have to think about my order which is still not shipped.

CBlaz,
According to a VP of BENQ sitting next to me here for our event today, less than 8% of the PE7700 projectors sold in the US have reported the defective bulb problem.

(my own opinion inserted here: I'm certainly not discounting the fact that 8% is a high number for defects -- especially for retailers who are forced to deal with this issue too. That being said, they are trying!)

And coincidentally, nearly every poster in this and the MT-700 forum had their bulbs blow early. Oh yeah, only people with problems come to these forums. I have been a member here several years - I didn't just find AVS to complain. In fact, we would all rather not have this problem at all.

Anyway, the above statement is exactly what is so infuriating. It seems to imply that 8% really isn't all that many people and that this is just a little problem. This issue is bigger than 8% and the sooner they figure out what the CAUSE of the problem is and COMMUNICATE it to us the sooner the problem will go away.

I am now going to unsubscribe to this thread and just enjoy my "fixed" projector.

I enjoy mine and I still come here to discuss the issues. Burying your head won't make the issues go away.

WOW Kreonite (a small USA mfg of photo developing equipment)would not accept anything over a .05% per million on the electronics that powered their photo processing equipment. All electronics were burned in for 24 hours in a stress cabinet before it went to the line for assembly.

That by the way that is 500 bad units per 1 million units SOLD,and this was the quality control in place in the mid 80's (a vary high figure compared )to what is accepted IN TODAYS standards..........................

So I would hope his assessment of 8% would set off ALARM bells that he has a freaking HUGE problem in his 7700 product.

I'm SHOCKED and it takes a lot to SHOCK ME............THAT'S 80,000 THOUSAND UNITS PER MILLION That 8% can't be right, that would be the highest failure rate I have ever herd of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO way!!! you sure he did not say .08% Every MFG I ever work with Kodak,Polaroid, Keronite would have their engineers find out what the problem was if they had a rise of just .03% ABOVE THE NORM...........8% WOULD have put the CEO into coronary heart failure.

Sorry I should not have commented on a rumor but 8% is so far out their I just had to open my mouth, and if that number is true HE SHOULD BE :o :o AND ASHAMED.

These numbers will tend to be understated for the following reasons:

a) recently sold projectors will have not yet reached the point of failing
b) there is a large segment of the public that are very slow in following up on a failure
c) there is a small percentage that, when the lamp fails, will simply buy another lamp

Take for example that guy who recently posted that he's at 600 hours and happy as a clam. He's headed for a failure and may not even realize it yet. The one thing that is conspicuously absent from these threads is reports of folks who have over 1000 hours without failure. I can't remember one. To suggest that people only come to AVS forum to report failures doesn't make sense to me. Front projection is a technology that can only be deployed by a) paying $$$ to a "professional" to set up a system or b) researching on your own. In my case, and I would wager many others at these forums, AVS Forum was a necessity in order to understand how to set up my home system. I would be here even if my MT700 performed flawlessly. Seeing all these threads would compel me to report the contrarian position. Where are those folks??? 8%? No way. 25%? Maybe. 50%? Very likely. If not now, soon. Admitedly, I was with the sunny-day crowd until my new lamp failed. Now I'm part of what I believe to be the majority that are very concerned that they spent $2500 for a lemon. Were the companies that sold these to actually admit that "Houston, we have a problem" I would be much more confident that they intend to do whatever it takes to give us the value we paid for. As it is, Toshiba is saying "hmmm, better send it in so we can check it out; we don't hear many reports of PJ failure" (that's not fiction, that's exactly what I heard last week). BenQ is saying "in certain environmental situations" and "8%". I'm not buying it.

I feel your pain folks. As a dealer, we certainly didn't sign up to deal with manufacturer defects. Our sales people/customer service personnel don't get paid any extra for dealing with a defect that none of them had anything to do with.

And once again, no one in their right mind would suggest that any defect level, whether it's 1% or 10% is acceptable. If I'm the unlucky guy (and with my luck, it would be me) that got a defective unit, I wouldn't take solace that I'm the one customer in the whole country with a defect, or I have a community of people that are in the same boat. Bottom line, if I owned a defective unit, I'd want it addressed and fixed immediately, because this is my hard earned dollars that I spent on a piece of equipment.

All that being said, without sounding like a BENQ apologist, I know for a fact that they are doing their best to address each and every individual issue and earn the trust of their customer base. As a dealer, that's all I can ask.

A little direct communication from the manufacturer could inspire a great deal of confidence.

All we know now is that any one of us may not live in an "environment" suitable for this projector. ;)

A little direct communication from the manufacturer could inspire a great deal of confidence.

All we know now is that any one of us may not live in an "environment" suitable for this projector. ;)

Bubbawilly --

Couldn't agree with you more. As dealers, we feel 110% the same way. Just cut the ********, and tell us the truth. We can only manage the expectations of our customers, if we know the truth ourselves.

bubba willy, call me, BENQ Dude at TvA right now and ask for the big benq dude

Neil,
I should add that I can speak for virtually everyone when I say that we appreciate your participation in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. It speaks volumes.

Never let anyone scare you off. Folks may not always appreciate what I post, but that hasn't kept me away! ;)

And, I agree with the others that the vast, vast majority of the information on this forum is about the positive aspects of AV gear and ownership. By far, the minority is about problems. If it were not for the wealth of helpful information here, I would never have built the theater, 3.5 years ago, that my family still thoroughly enjoys today.

bubba willy, call me, BENQ Dude at TvA right now and ask for the big benq dude

Trying... but I keep getting flipped to VM.

No luck. I either get Ryan's VM, or a sales rep in Washington. :(

Any way to get through other than using ext. 507?? That's what the rep in Washington told me to use. Feel free to PM me.

I left my number at ext. 507, and I PM'd it as well.

Even when we may disagree, I have learned much from so many here. As a group, we are better informed from the collective experiences of everyone on this forum, than from our own personal expeirence. Some, like myself find out patient tested to the extreme, while others are not bent out of shape to that extent. That is what makes this forum informative and useful. Rational and yes, sometimes irrational venting is what keeps it balanced.

On the PE7700, is BenQ saying that 8% is an acceptable level? And, does that number include the many that have had multiple failures? For some reason, I cannot see this 8% being correct because of the multiple failures we see reported. I would think that if something keeps failing repeately on the scale we see, it is much more widespread than what 8% represents. It would seem to me that most would fail, some once, some twice, three, and four times like me. I simply cannot believe that only those having problems are on this forum. It just doesn't make sense.

bubba willy, call me, BENQ Dude at TvA right now and ask for the big benq dude

Can't get through to a live person (Neil - hint, hint!). I even got Neil's VM.

Have to go do some of my chores so that my wife will let me watch a movie tonight. Just wish I were watching on a BenQ, because its picture was better than what I have now.

You've got my number. ;)

I feel your pain folks. As a dealer, we certainly didn't sign up to deal with manufacturer defects. Our sales people/customer service personnel don't get paid any extra for dealing with a defect that none of them had anything to do with.

And once again, no one in their right mind would suggest that any defect level, whether it's 1% or 10% is acceptable. If I'm the unlucky guy (and with my luck, it would be me) that got a defective unit, I wouldn't take solace that I'm the one customer in the whole country with a defect, or I have a community of people that are in the same boat. Bottom line, if I owned a defective unit, I'd want it addressed and fixed immediately, because this is my hard earned dollars that I spent on a piece of equipment.

All that being said, without sounding like a BENQ apologist, I know for a fact that they are doing their best to address each and every individual issue and earn the trust of their customer base. As a dealer, that's all I can ask.


Thanks Neil well said, finally a breath of fresh air and truth in an other wise downward spiral of rumors. :)

While we are talking about Neil maybe he could chime in if any AVS people showed up today in Santa Monica, Ca. where the Benq people were? Did anyone address the Benq Hierarchy about the 7700 problems? If so what was the response? Neil I know you said that Benq is doing their best to address each and every individual issue and earn the trust of their customer base, anything else you can throw our way that you can share? Details, tidbits, off the record comments?:) I"m curious.

While we are talking about Neil maybe he could chime in if any AVS people showed up today in Santa Monica, Ca. where the Benq people were? Did anyone address the Benq Hierarchy about the 7700 problems? If so what was the response? Neil I know you said that Benq is doing their best to address each and every individual issue and earn the trust of their customer base, anything else you can throw our way that you can share? Details, tidbits, off the record comments?:) I"m curious.

I was there, for about one hour. I couldn't stay longer because I had friends to visit in Santa Monica. I was here to see the PE8720 and PE7700. Regarding the bulb issue of the latter, I met one BenQ representative who told me "the bulb issue is now fixed with the new firmware". I had never seen these PJs before. I was very impressed by the PQ. Both throw a very sharp picture. I could see SDE in bright scenes only when standing very close to the screen (0.5x screen width). The demo rooms were not pitch dark, but sufficiently dark to appreciate their very good black levels. Contrast is simply stunning with the PE8720 ! The PE7700 was demoed on a 1.2 gain / 92" Da-Lite screen (probably same screen for the PE8720). I saw DVD and HD content on both. The PE7700 has a 5x / 6 segs color wheel, while the PE87200 has a 5x / 8 segs one. When white credits are scrolling on a black background, and when I tried very hard to move my eyes quickly across the screen, I could make myself see rainbows with the PE7700 but not the PE8720. I hope this non-scientific experiment brings a good news to RBE-prone people. For me it would absolutely not be a showstopper, because in normal conditions I don't see rainbows at all with the PE7700. What else could I say hmm... oh I got a BenQ pen :)

- great dude

Since you saw both projectors great dude, how did the 7700 compare overall to the 8720? Were they in the same demo room? Wish I could have made it up there from Orange County today. Thanks for the info. It doesn't sound like the rep had any different information from what we have been hearing. I was hoping to get some "detailed" info being relayed from Benq to someone. Maybe Neil (TV Authority) will have something to add later.

Since you saw both projectors great dude, how did the 7700 compare overall to the 8720? Were they in the same demo room? Wish I could have made it up there from Orange County today. Thanks for the info. It doesn't sound like the rep had any different information from what we have been hearing. I was hoping to get some "detailed" info being relayed from Benq to someone. Maybe Neil (TV Authority) will have something to add later.

The 7700 compares very well to the 8720. They were in 2 different, but similar, demo rooms. The only difference my untrained eye (I am new to the front projection world) was able to notice is the contrast and black level which are perceptibly better on the 8720. Other than that, I did not notice any difference regarding brightness, inter-pixel gap, shadow detail, colors, etc. A split-screen comparison would have probably allowed me to detect small differences but let me tell you again: both pictures are very similar. From a pure PQ point of view, it doesn't justify the high price of the 8720. What justify it are probably the extra features not present in the 7700: variable iris, 8-segment CW, power zoom, power focus, digital zoom, lens shift, etc.

- great dude

Got my PE7700 back from BenQ on Friday (two weeks) with the new firmware and new bulb. My bulb had 305 hours on it and still working when I sent it in. Picture is beautiful and the fan is definately more noticable but not a problem when watching movies. I am happy with the way I was treated by BenQ and I am convinced they are going to honor their warranty. As far as lamp life is concerned, I am a realist and I realize that these lamps are the biggest weakness of all digital front projectors until they are replaced by led light sources. Until then I don't believe any manufacturer's lamp life figures. Other popular projectors (Panasonic AE 700 and 900) have also had premature lamp failure issues. The difference here is that I see people complaining about lamp failures in the Panasonic projectors still 2 years after the AE700 was introduced and the manufacturer has never acknowledged or addressed the issue. If you think BenQ has bad customer service, check out some other threads on other projector manufacturers. I called them only once and didn't get an arguement about if I had a legitamate issue. I realized that they were getting a lot of returned product for the firmware upgrade and didn't expect to get it back in 2 days or 24 hours. I agree with an earlier post here that I would really like to see a PE7700 tweak thread now on this forum. I bought this projector for its picture quality and price/perfomance and I am still happy in that department.

I spike too soon. I just found the new PE7700 tweaking thread. I will spend my time there from now on.

I think the consumers quest for silence, coupled with shortened release schedules for product has forced manufacturers to cut some corners during development. Not knowing really anything about bulbs I would imagine that getting this component right from an engineering and production QA perspective would not be a trivial exercise. How do bulb manufacturers test bulbs in a way that would closely simulate real world usage conditions and do it in a shortened time period?

I spike too soon. I just found the new PE7700 tweaking thread. I will spend my time there from now on.

Could you post a link to the tweaking thread, that would be great.

Thanks

Daddyd

Anyone with the .48 firmware. Could you post your ballast temps for comparison purposes.
Thanks,

Could you post a link to the tweaking thread, that would be great.

Thanks

Daddyd


Click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=654791)

I was wondering if anybody has ever compared a 7700 to an Optoma HD72 regarding light output. I am only aware of this review (http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD72/performance.asp) showing that the 7700 is a bit less bright, but not that much. I am particularly interested to know how they compare to each other when set in their brightest mode (lamp output full + "family room" mode or whatever it's called for the HD72).

- great dude

great dude ,
let me know what conclusion you came up with, i am in the same boat you are, sub $2000 range, and those two are the front runners.
why, i don't know why, haven't done enough research yet but i am sure that i will come across more sub $2000 models.
just got the ok from the wife to up grade from a rear to front proj.
keep me posted and i will do the same, thanks.
sam

I was wondering if anybody has ever compared a 7700 to an Optoma HD72 regarding light output. I am only aware of this review (http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD72/performance.asp) showing that the 7700 is a bit less bright, but not that much. I am particularly interested to know how they compare to each other when set in their brightest mode (lamp output full + "family room" mode or whatever it's called for the HD72).

- great dude

STRICTLY on light output regardless of pic quality, the H72 is slightly brighter if you turn the "Brilliant Color" to the max 10. I have seen both. (The BC is kind of like the clear segment of the old that's why it can increase lumens)

.... although I'm puzzled why you would want to watch in this setting ? Is it for a brightly lit-up living room ?

. otherwise PQ alone in cinema mode I can't see any difference. they have a drastically different throw/offset though. H72 is totally out of the question for my setup.

STRICTLY on light output regardless of pic quality, the H72 is slightly brighter if you turn the "Brilliant Color" to the max 10. I have seen both. (The BC is kind of like the clear segment of the old that's why it can increase lumens)

.... although I'm puzzled why you would want to watch in this setting ? Is it for a brightly lit-up living room ?

. otherwise PQ alone in cinema mode I can't see any difference. they have a drastically different throw/offset though. H72 is totally out of the question for my setup.

The Optoma HD72 is out for me too due to the offset but I'm interested in the BenQ PE7700. However, the question of premature lamp failures still concerns me despite the claim by BenQ that they have solved the problem. Has anyone who's purchased the updated BenQs experienced premature lamp failures?

I was wondering if anybody has ever compared a 7700 to an Optoma HD72 regarding light output. I am only aware of this review (http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD72/performance.asp) showing that the 7700 is a bit less bright, but not that much. I am particularly interested to know how they compare to each other when set in their brightest mode (lamp output full + "family room" mode or whatever it's called for the HD72).

- great dude

Based on the prevalent lamp issues on this and premature lamp dimming issues on other machines I really wonder if rated lamp brightness can be used to make any reasonable determination in selecting a machine. It appears that lamp brightness may be consistent for a couple of hundred hours and that all bets are off as to what the brightness will be after that.

easy9: if I were you I would buy the HD72. The only reason I am considering the PE7700 is because its zoom would allow me to project a 110" image, 10 more inches than the HD72 (my room is not long enough).

c722: well I would primarily use it to watch movies in a dark living room, but considering how much light those beasts can output, I was asking myself "hey wouldn't that be nice if I could also use it in a bright environment, for games during the day, etc ?" IOW, for me, a dual-use PJ is better than a movie-only one.

basement: I agree with you, especially since others say that both PJs are grossly equivalent regarding light output.

- great dude

great dude,

I use my 7700 in a basement family room environment, both in lights out darkness conditions for movies and in half light dimmed conditions for other multimedia computer applications and tv events. This was possible for me when I changed from a matte white screen to the da-lite high power. Also, the screen size is relatively modest at 92". By not going overboard on screen size and with some help from a positve gain screen you should be able to use your system for more than darkened lights out viewing.