Jack,

Granted, as I said... a lot of people are very happy with the 4805... I am happy for them that such a low res projector at such a low price point satisfies thier needs.

But as I said, in the context of this thread, it does not make it a great projector... it makes it great value for money perhaps, and to some that might undoubtedly makes it a great projector.

My point was in context of the discussion on the 7700 vs the 8700 particularly, and I doubt anyone in thier right mind would argue the 4805 is better than either of these performance wise.

Whats the point of trying to drum up an argument over the merits of the 4805 in a discussion about a unit twice the price with more than twice the pixels?

Let me guess, you have an opinion on LCD vs DLP too? :-)

J/K ... but lets keep this on track!?

I am happy for them that such a low res projector at such a low price point satisfies thier needs.
It's quite adequate to match the low-res medium for which it's intended, and typically purchased, given its other attributes. I do find myself inexorably drawn toward the 7700 though, as long as it can match the overall look of the 4805 while adding pixels. I want to see more stars, man...

My point was in context of the discussion on the 7700 vs the 8700 particularly, and I doubt anyone in thier right mind would argue the 4805 is better than either of these performance wise.
Agreed, when considering the resolution spec on paper. Left-minded people are a different story, however... ;)

The 7700 is still in limited distribution at the moment, so only a few of BenQ's direct resellers have them. Once they're out in force, I think you'll see far more user responses.

checklst

Be very happy you don't see all the artifacts people talk about here, i wish i didn't see them and could enjoy even more of the movie.
Don't go look for them, if you find them, you will see them everytime, just enjoy your projector as this is why you probably purchased it in the first place :D

Originally posted by Kjelt
checklst

Be very happy you don't see all the artifacts people talk about here, I wish I didn't see them and could enjoy even more of the movie.
Don't go look for them, if you find them, you will see them everytime, just enjoy your projector as this is why you probably purchased it in the first place :D

I hear their, kind of reminds an old saying my Dad used if trouble hasn't found you, why go looking for it.

Their probably are some flaws but I think the new projectors are getting so good they are getting hard to spot, and will only pop up on certain scenes or movies.:)

Originally posted by MikeSRC
The 7700 is still in limited distribution at the moment, so only a few of BenQ's direct resellers have them. Once they're out in force, I think you'll see far more user responses.

I think you'll also see lower prices. I can guarantee you that Benq knows who their competition is (Toshiba MT700, Sharp Z2000). I'm sure within a few months, these pj's will be neck and neck on pricing. And I can't wait. My Z2 is outta here! LCD will never find residence in my home again.

Steve

I was about to pull the trigger on the HS50 before I was finally able to view the 8700....

I was going to move to LCD after I got tired of motion dithering on all DLPs I saw / ownded, though was impressed that the 8700 didnt have it much (Spatial rather than Temporal dithering apparently).

So now I am keen as to see the 7700 to confirm the same applies and at this price point, I am particularly keen :-) wd BENQ :-)

and Jack - less than 576p is below PAL SD and the more pixels u have = higher density = smoother pic = bigger screen :-)

Mike.................

Art is back in town....

Why don't you charge over to his house and borrow the 7700 to complete your highly anticipated evaluation..........!!

I'm almost scared to ask what dithering is!!!! I have watched 5 movies on my PE7700 now and nothing has caught my eye as being out of the ordinary. I have vary good blacks, whites and great shadow detail, I have been looking at the white lights and highlights in the backgrounds on dark surfaces for problems, I see no blocking, stair step or pixels just smooth transition from the lights to the blacks. Fast moving objects just appear to be just that, fast moving.

I am projecting a 94 inch wide picture on a wall and I am setting way to close at 9 ft from the screen, I seem to have a hard time keeping up with fast moving objects moving across the screen at this seating distance, but nothing has caught my eye that seems strange. This setup is just temporary until I get my HT room completed and I can move farther back to keep up with the action a little better.

I hope you guys won't laugh too hard when I tell you my old Samsung DVD is only a 59 dollar unit new and is not a progressive scan unit and has no coax for audio, component only. I GUESS that pretty tells us the BQ must be doing all the work to make such a great picture.

My DVD up converter (HDMI) will not arrive for another week but I really doubt the picture could get any better and probably wasted a couple hundred bucks because BQ’s electronics seems to be handling the picture just fine.

Thanks for listening

9 feet from a 94" wide picture-wow! I thought I was going to be the leader in that category, but mine will be less than 85" wide viewed from 8.5 feet away. I just got my projector today (the Toshiba MT700 near-clone to the Benq 7700) and did a few position/screen size tests-and it will be awesome! This size/distance is just about exactly where the pixels are no longer visible and I see just a gorgeous large smooth HD picture.

Greetings HiHoSteve, and Mike

I gave the 7700 projector back, before I left on vacation. I'll have one again though in two weeks so I can finish playing with it. I have to look at performance from DVI/HDMI yet, and hopefully my D-VHS will be back in time. Maybe then Mike. -art

you got a PJ, HD, A Screen................ LUCKEEEE

Projectorpeople.com has the 8700+ for the same price as the 7700. If you can't wait purchase from them.

and Jack - less than 576p is below PAL SD and the more pixels u have = higher density = smoother pic = bigger screen :-)
Yup...and many (mainly CRT guys) even look down at 720p. I subtend the angle I desire now...bigger ain't always better.

Still...I lust...

Greetings, Just for clarification, the 7700 has been shipping. My local dealer has sold through 20 pieces and is expecting another 30 before the end of the month. Several other direct BenQ dealers have also had the product.

According to BenQ, they shipped 120 units end of last month/first of April, with hundreds more on the way. So if you want a 7700, certainly you can get one next week, and there might be one of the direct dealers that hasn't sold out their first allocation. -art

Oh art, I was SOOOoooo waiting for you two to get together with those projectors. I got cash burning a hole in my pocket waiting for a comparison. Is senseye worth the fairly steep price difference? My first projector ever is so close now.
Well sort of first. I had one of those 640x480 lcd panels you set on an overhead projector. Talk about light leakage. I ran a vga adapter on my dreamcast and it was a blast to play on.
Warren.

Greetings Art, I have had my BQ sense last Friday and can’t believe how good the picture is and a couple of your sayings hit real close to home, Trust you senses, not the specs, and "Because not everyone has the time to become expert"

Well I fit the last one for sure, and you and your review made the difference in me deciding the BQ was the unit for me. I would like to thank you and the Michael Wood at Projector Solution for such professional top notch SERVICE, it’s a pleasure to work with such professional knowledgeable people.

Thank Dave

I do have one complaint sense I got the BQ I’ve been watching so many movies the HT room construction has come to a stop, and wife is starting to complain that nothings is getting done. Yakes!!!!

Greetings checklst,

Hey thanks, that's really nice to hear. I'm glad you love it. BTW, as to the wife "problem", you can never actually make that go away until you can hand them a single remote control that they can actually easily use to do anything they would want. Good luck with that! -art

Art...........

I have just that problem... a proliferation of remotes, such that I and my son are the only ones that can run the theater... (not necessarily a bad thing).

However, do you have any experience with single remotes that will run everything... to the point where the Wife can just push a button for what she wants and go.... Oh Yeah... it cannot cost as much as the silly projector!!

Just got mine yesterday. And all i can tell you right out of the box its perfect for me. This is my first PJ, i am no expert in this but i know enough to tell what pic looks good. I tested it with component video signal, as my sony NS975V HDMI output did not work (brand new dvd player i got yesterday too, grrrr).

I am attaching the projection image size table, i know its similar to MT700 but it belongs here too.

I projected the image on plain white wall in my family room and it was awesome, for a second i tought do i really need a screen. I might go with dalite high contrast (< $200). Oh, my screen size was 92' projected on the wall.

Here is my list of equipment:
1. PE7700
2. Sony NS975V (HDMI did not work)
3. 30" HMDI cable from pccables
4. Used 6" monster component
5. Plain white wall

People who want a quality home theater under $3000 can do this.

I have been researching sony hs51, MT700 but finally pulled the trigger on this. i am happy, except my sony dvd player. I think i am going to go to CC and by the LG for now and then pre order panny s97s on the web.

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Art...........

I have just that problem... a proliferation of remotes, such that I and my son are the only ones that can run the theater... (not necessarily a bad thing).

However, do you have any experience with single remotes that will run everything... to the point where the Wife can just push a button for what she wants and go.... Oh Yeah... it cannot cost as much as the silly projector!!

You should check out some remotes in Logitech Harmony line. They are made to do exactly this.

Originally posted by presenter
Greetings checklst,

Hey thanks, that's really nice to hear. I'm glad you love it. BTW, as to the wife "problem", you can never actually make that go away until you can hand them a single remote control that they can actually easily use to do anything they would want. Good luck with that! -art

LOL, LOL:p

My Sherwood P-965 Preamp/Tuner/Processor has a remote (RNC-500) that has memory macros that can be programmed to set the operation of 3 source units. http://sherwoodamerica.com/prod_rnc500.html

Could solve your one-remote needs.

Hey guys I do have a question about the Remote on/off. Does it hurt just to use the remote off, as compaired to a total hard power down. I ran a clean power line to the PJ and did not put it on a switch. I am Ceiling mounting the PJ so it's a little hard to get to the hard switch.

The dry wall is going to be installed in a few days and I still could add a switch, if you guys thing leaving the PJ on will damage or wear it out quicker.

What do you think? Wall Switch or no switch?

Thanks Dave

There's not much of a difference between hard and soft on/off. Ideally you'd use the switch on the projector, but convenience usually trumps the possible slight advantage, especially in your case. Just clean the filters a little more often than recommended since a fan is probably running all the time (can't confirm as I don't have this projector, but it does on the X1, for example).

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Art...........

I have just that problem... a proliferation of remotes, such that I and my son are the only ones that can run the theater... (not necessarily a bad thing).

However, do you have any experience with single remotes that will run everything... to the point where the Wife can just push a button for what she wants and go.... Oh Yeah... it cannot cost as much as the silly projector!!

First allow for an abject apology for not asking this question of Mike, who is the guru of SurfRemote.com.... bow, scrape, beg forgiveness............

In Nevada I am running the BenQ 8700, a Denon 3805, an RCA DTC-210, an X-box, a Gateway 901X, a Gefen 4 port DVI switch, and a Replay 5040. The Denon and RCA came with Multi remotes, but I was more interested in something like I see at CES, which of course I cannot afford! It would be so cool if my wife could simply come in and push a single button "DVD" let's say and the projector powers up, then the Denon Powers on, then the DVD player, then after a little time the remote would have to tell the projector that it wants to use the DVI or Component as necessary, switch to the anamorphic setting, and use memory #1 for color.

Then with one more button push everything powers down.

Is it possible to do this without breaking the bank??

I have been using a "one for all" remote that has a JP1 input. I paid a nice person to program it to work with my Denon ... as Denon receivers do not use "normal" IR codes... so I used to be able to use that remote when I had a rear projection TV to do all the above (well not switch to anamorphic). Now I just use it to turn on the Denon, adjust volume, select the appropriate source (DVD, PVR, etc)... it is set up so that you can just push a single red button and it turns everything on you want on..., but I would really like something a bit more "user-friendly" for the wife.

I have not picked the components for Utah yet.......... that is why I am spending so much time on these forum's instead of playing Mercenaries or Halo2! But I am going to need another receiver (thinking of Denon 2105, I like having the ability to switch three component in's... would love the Marantz 8500 with it's DVI switching capability... but oh well you can't have everything), upconverting DVD player (probably Bravo D-2 or Panny S-97), projector... (7700, MT-700, H31, H77), HD Receiver (used LSS-3200) and speakers.

Thanks,

Steve

Oh, if you did not get the PM, the offsets for 7 feet, 9 feet, and 11 feet, should have been... 10.9", 14", & 17.2"...... from lens center to top/bottom of image. How did this compare to what you had??

Remotes are a subjective thing. I can only echo what was said above in recommending the Harmony remote. You use it exactly as you say, push a button labeled DVD and it changes everything to the right setting, including the lights and popcorn machine (well maybe not).

Allen

I don't want to turn this into a remote discussion (that's what the "Remote Control" forum's for), but there are many possiblities for a single, wife-friendly, universal remote, ranging from $100-1000. For a hard-button remote, look at the PC-programmable URC remotes (MX-700, 800 or 850) or the Harmonys. For a touchscreen remote, look at the Pronto TSU-3000or 7000, or the URC MX-3000.

Thanks Mike I will do a search around the web for more info.

Alas, remotes,

I haven't really screwed around with them, but I have a friend I recommended one of the Harmony's to. He got it, and got it programmed. What is interesing about it, is that it is "activity" based. Which I figure is perfect for "wives".

Properly set up, you can have a button that - turns on the projector, the receiver, switches the receiver to cable TV, lowers the screen (if you have an IR capability for your screen) etc. Hit a different button, and it could be the same basic sequence but turns on and kicks the DVD player into play, and selects DVD as the source on your receiver, etc.

Thus it avoids people getting "confused" by hitting the wrong button, and then starting to screw up everything else. Since it can effectively turn off, back on, each devide it tends to avoid that situation where something on - that you want on, gets turned off, etc. visit remotecentral.com for good remote reviews. -art

Ordered my 7700, along with a iScan HD+ today. Our grateful hosts just got them in stock. Art, thou art a good salesman. I was considering building a HTPC instead of getting the iScan, but the wife factor came in there too. Also it will be nice to have one cable to the projector for many inputs.
Warren.

Originally posted by rana1224
Just got mine yesterday. And all i can tell you right out of the box its perfect for me. This is my first PJ, i am no expert in this but i know enough to tell what pic looks good. I tested it with component video signal, as my sony NS975V HDMI output did not work (brand new dvd player i got yesterday too, grrrr).

I am attaching the projection image size table, i know its similar to MT700 but it belongs here too.

I projected the image on plain white wall in my family room and it was awesome, for a second i tought do i really need a screen. I might go with dalite high contrast (< $200). Oh, my screen size was 92' projected on the wall.

Here is my list of equipment:
1. PE7700
2. Sony NS975V (HDMI did not work)
3. 30" HMDI cable from pccables
4. Used 6" monster component
5. Plain white wall

People who want a quality home theater under $3000 can do this.

I have been researching sony hs51, MT700 but finally pulled the trigger on this. i am happy, except my sony dvd player. I think i am going to go to CC and by the LG for now and then pre order panny s97s on the web.


Congrats Rana on your purchase... I was kind of hoping that all those zeroes on the image offset was just someone that was too lazy to measure it. I do find it a bit odd that BenQ went with zero offset on this piece ... I am hoping to get in a demo unit within a week to do some testing and hopefully before I send the sencore unit back so I can get some additional information and charts to post. It will be tight. I got a chance to see the 8720 albeit in a Runco unit at the Montreal Audio show and it looked stunning.... I am getting a bit too impatient to wait till August for the 8720 and it will likely be in a much different price point.

On the lack of 3:2 pulldown that was reported... the specs show differently..and I swear when I saw it at CES it did in fact have 3:2 pulldown capabilities. Rana ... have fun with your new toy..

Robert

originally posted by rana 1224

Just got mine yesterday. And all i can tell you right out of the box its perfect for me. This is my first PJ, i am no expert in this but i know enough to tell what pic looks good. I tested it with component video signal, as my sony NS975V HDMI output did not work (brand new dvd player i got yesterday too, grrrr).

Rana:

Have you test your 975 with another display to make sure that the player is the problem? My Toshiba MT700 was very picky with HDCP handshake. With both a Zenith and a Samsung DVD player, commercial DVDs would not play on the MT700. The HDMI input synced, Avia played fine, as did all of my burned DVD-Rs, but with all commercial DVDs, it lost sync with an "unsupported" message. Both of these machines worked fine with my RP HDMI display.

I went out and bought the cheap Toshiba HDMI player. This one works fine on the 700.

Pip

pip,
I don't have access to another HDMI display source. You are right about --> it detects the HDMI (525p) (i can see that on bottom right of my screen ) but then it goes black. or sometimes it says "unsupported"

I got LG 418 and that is working fine.

So looks like this PJ is very picky, i did not try dvd-r on sony, i will try it tonight and will let you know.

If you want to talk please PM me and lets see if we can resolve this or atleast draw a conclusion. Luckly i have not returned my dvd player , i was going to do that tomorrow, i will now. let me know

rana:

Check out the 975 with a DVD- R. If that plays, it provides more evidence for an HDCP hasndshake problem with the projector.

I think we need more input from other owners, and some HDCP experts.

Pip

That is a huge downer in my opinion. I really don't get all these problems with DVI and HDMI. Can't companies do a little experimenting before they release these things. I would hate to get a new pj then find out it won't work with 5 different DVD players because it has some sort of HDCP peculiararity. I know there are standards for HDMI, DVI and HDCP. Why can't these manufacturers get it straight.

I've asked this question in the MT700 thread, but will ask it here as well, in case they are different. Does the Benq support letterbox zoom with all inputs and in all resolutions? Are there any exceptions? I'm wondering how it will work with an anamorphic lense without using an outboard scaler.

Looking at the MT700 manual it doesn't have the mode needed. I can answer next week about the 7700 since I bought a panamorph lens and the 7700 and the DVDO iScanHD+. They are supposed to be here early next week. I will try to get it to work without the iScan first, but I am not hopeful. What we need is a vertical stretch mode, which some Optima projectors have to vertically stretch the image to full height of the chip. A zoom doesn't help, since it expands the image in all directions as far as I know. I am no expert by any means, but hope to be next week. I figure the iScan saves me money on cables, and simplifies installation, plus it looks pretty cool.
Warren.

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
What we need is a vertical stretch mode, which some Optima projectors have to vertically stretch the image to full height of the chip. A zoom doesn't help, since it expands the image in all directions as far as I know. [/B]
I posted three pictures in the MT700 group. You can clearly see that the ZOOM mode does only stretch vertically not horizontally. The problem is that I am wondering if it zooms enough. For further explanation see my post in the MT700 group.

Kjelt -- Your right. If my math is correct, it should be almost too much (makes it 2.38:1 with an anamorphic lens to stretch the width). Does that mean that you'll loose a little on the right & left sides on a 2.35:1 screen?

PS -- I just re-read your MT700 post, we agree. However, your comment about still seeing top & bottom black bars confuses me. I guess I don't really understand what the anamorphic lens is doing. Is your observation due to the fact that you can't get the lens close enough to the PJ front lens?

Originally posted by mandarax


On the lack of 3:2 pulldown that was reported... the specs show differently..and I swear when I saw it at CES it did in fact have 3:2 pulldown capabilities. Rana ... have fun with your new toy..

Robert

Mandarax,

Don't trust the spec, real testing counts.

I just read the Widescreen Review on SHARP Z2000, everyone would have thought that SHARP should put 3-2 pull down in Z2000. But Widescreen Review reports that Z2000, too, is lacking 3-2 pull down.

Since there are cheap HDMI DVD out there on the market, maybe this becomes not so critical?

Thankfully those of us in PAL countries don't need toworry about this.... however it does make me think that this new unit may not handle the other kind of motion judder well either....

Hmmmm I am told BenQ Aus have them in stock ready to ship, though they are not releasing it here in Aus untill the last of the 7800's have been shipped out and they have 26 units left....

26 units in the states would be nothing, but here in Aus, thats probably a significant number as the market for FP is yet to take off in Aus....

Ahwell.... waiting is tough though hehehe so going to go check out the Mits HC900 after all :-)

May as well do something while I wait :-)

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
since I bought a panamorph lens and the 7700 and the DVDO iScanHD+.

hi may I know which panamorph u get ? I have the similar setup, but I thought the lens couldn't work well for short throw PJ like the 7700.

Also when u get the IScan, could you see if the Benq can do 48/72hz ?

thanks.

Originally posted by CT_Wiebe

1)Does that mean that you'll loose a little on the right & left sides on a 2.35:1 screen?
2)I guess I don't really understand what the anamorphic lens is doing. Is your observation due to the fact that you can't get the lens close enough to the PJ front lens?


Ok first of all , the ZOOM mode seems to be correct I was distracted with the 1:1.66 number BELOW the 1:2.39 number, this is however some other silly professional testpattern thing I didn't understand. The number above the 1:2.39 number says 1:2 so the 1:2.37 which is needed for the anamorphic lens seems to be correct.

To answer your questions:

1)no it means that you still have some little black bars on top and bottom. Think of it that the width is constant (panel width) then a 1:2.35 picture would be less high then a 1:2.37 picture. So the 1:2.37 zoom mode still gives small black bars on 1:2.35 material. Since LOTR was even less as 1:2.35 the bars were bigger.


2) The ISCO lens, stretches the picture horizontally. So the height of the picture remains the same before or after i put the lens in front of the projector. This means that the picture should be horizontally compressed. So if the film should display a circle then the picture before the lens should look like an egg shape and after the lens ofcourse like a circle.

Now the reason there was a distortion in the picture is probably due to the short throw of the projector and perhaps also with the gap between the lenses. It all has to do with optical physics which unfortunately I have no degree in. If you really want to know I might ask some PhD colleagues of mine but I am unsure if I can understand them :p . What I can guess
(I might totally be wrong here, this is just my understanding of the subject) is that a longthrow projector has light that is more parallel and that a short throw projector has light that still comes from a point of origin (difficult to explain for me since english is not my native language, so I included a picture for clarification, where you can see that I am also not a great artist :) ).
If you look at the picture you can see that for a given distance the lens should have different properties for the different types of PJ. Probably much bigger lens (more expensive) for the short throw PJ. Anyway what I learned from another thread here on AVS the ISCO-III might handle it better then the ISCO-II I have, but since it is 2 to 3x more expensive
and comes close to the price of the MT700 it is not much of an option for my budget.


Oh by the way, there is now a pricesetting for the Benq7700 in Holland, it is almost 400 euro's ($500) cheaper then the MT700, weird huh? (end price from a dealer)

pip,
I tested with sony 975v again and dvd-r still did not work. I think there might be a issue with HDCP handshake problem with the projector. Its working fine with LG 418 dvd, it runs both commercial and dvd-r.

I am retuning sony dvd player today. So i will not be able to do do more testing on that one.

Ok, my first post here.
Visiting this forum a load, and find loads of information.
Now i think it's time to register :).
I'm looking for a projector and think about the Sony HS50 or a DLP like the Benq PE7700.
Only the placement with a non lensshift pj could be a problem in my situation.
Ceiling mounted, i can only place the pj as high as about 5" just below the top of my screen. Is this projector then throwing the image to low, or won't i have a problem. Can't place the pj higher (roof :) ), only hanging the the screen lower could be an option.

Sorry for the weak English, i'm from the netherlands, speaking Dutch normaly :)

Hello fellow-dutchie (mede-nederlander),
if english is a problem for you then you can always go to the dutch hometheater forum: www.htforum.nl

To answer your question, with the Benq7700 the projector will throw the picture to low on the screen. The middle of the lens is gonna be the top of your picture in that case, so you have to lower your screen so the top matches the middle of the projectorlens.

groetjes ! (greetings )

rana:

If your 975 is not playing anything throught HDMI, it is quite possibly a problem with the player. These HDMI problems can be difficult to diagnose without multiple displays and multiple sources.

Pip

Originally posted by Kjelt
Hello fellow-dutchie (mede-nederlander),
if english is a problem for you then you can always go to the dutch hometheater forum: htforum

To answer your question, with the Benq7700 the projector will throw the picture to low on the screen. The middle of the lens is gonna be the top of your picture in that case, so you have to lower your screen so the top matches the middle of the projectorlens.

groetjes ! (greetings )

Ah, thank you. Yes i know that forum, i think i'm going register there also.

Hm, then i have to break the roof :D, lowering the screen is a bit to low for watching i think after i did some messuring. Then i have to look further :(. Probable going for the Sony HS50 LCD or another DLP that fits my environment, still have to look at projectors at the stores, but doing some homework to get a nice list of PJ's to compare later for the final selection.

Originally posted by Samhain_777
Thankfully those of us in PAL countries don't need toworry about this.... however it does make me think that this new unit may not handle the other kind of motion judder well either....



Don't hold your breath, Samhain_777. Normally, if a display cannot handle 3-2 pull down, it also means the PAL 2-2 pull down maybe lacking as well.

If you want to check out any display's ability to handle PAL film 2-2 motion artifacts, put in Region 2 PAL DVD, Armogeddan (the Bruce Willis, comet-hit-the-earth movie)

This movie is a torture test for PAL 2-2 pull down, the director likes to move his camera a lot, and you know it means lots of motion artifacts.

The easiest one is when Bruce and Liv Taylor were brought to NASA, the beginning of the chapter we see the camera moves in on NASA building, motion artifacts galore!! Of course if you use a good progressive 576p DVD, try switching between the 576i and 576p input, and you will see. :)

So I guess my decision on a PJ will either be the 7700, Tosh 700 or the Sony 51. I do like the way the BenQ has the cool senseye feature. Of course it could be a gimmick and until more new owners get a chance to post we won't know. I just hope there is not a HDMI problem with this or the Tosh. I will be using the HDMI almost exclusively. I have an Onkyo SP1000 and the TX NR1000 and a HDTIVO and finally a DVHS JVC HM5 U. My main concern is that I go thru my TX NR1000 HDMI out. Anyway, it seems that either of these PJs will get the job done. I will be sitting back 23-25 feet (back row), on a 110" 16:9 screen. I am lucky knowing that I have the luxury of waiting (basement is not done yet) and seeing what the general feeling is on these PJs. And who knows, there may end up being a newer PJ released soon to that will confuse me even more...

I have had the PE7700 for a week now. Due you have to set back that far??? After getting my PJ the first thing that I and the wife noticed is the quality of the picture, and the virtual lack of any artifacts like blocking, motion ect.......... I am throwing a 106 diag and the wife is moving the seating forward. My front row of club chairs is now at 11ft and the main couch (on a 9"platform) at 14'.

The quality of the PJ allows US to sit a little closer than we originally thought but seating distance is a personal, preference, but a little closer sure makes for a Big screen movie theater effect and at the distance we are at, I can see no screen door/pixels ect...............

I personally think BenQ hit just what they were AIMING for by using their own chip.(I don't think it's just marketing trick) A RIGHT out of the box HIGH quality picture that gives great contrast WITHOUT THE USER(ME) needing a degree in electronics to get a good picture. NO MEES ON FUSS!!!!!! I still might go adjusting later as I learn more but it nice to have such a great picture in the mean time.

I am sure BQ won't win any friends of the people who make living adjusting HT projectors, but from my point of view THAY HIT A HOME RUN for us guys who have no TIME to learn a new trade as a Tech.

JMO

I may change the wall some and make it 17-20 feet back. That would put us a little closer. The BenQ does seem like the front runner. If someone sheds more light on HDMI situation that would help. Also, with the infamous RBE effect, do folks that see them do it that far back? I was under the assumption that they were harder to see on a PJ.

joerod -- I tend to agree with Kysersose, the RBE is way overblown, especially with 4x wheels. I'm sensitive to any kind of motion related artifacts. I've seen both the IF4805 and IF7205 and I didn't see any RBE regardless of how close I got to the screen.

However, there is one motion artifact that did bother me and that was motion blur (when the camera pans quickly over a background scene). This "panning" artifact is related to both the quality of the source material and the display. This artifact is worse on DLPs than it is on LCD PJs, apparently due to the way the panels respond to the panning motion signal.

From what I've been able to find (read), the PE7700 and its Tosh MT700 cousin, seem to have less of this than the Infocus family (and its relations). But it is not eliminated. The perception of this motion artifact can be somewhat reduced by sitting further back, but that should not effect where you put your seats. Of, course, you may not be sensitive to this type of artifact (it effects some people more than others).

checklst stated that he didn't see any motion artifacts with his PE7700, which is a real plus for this PJ. He's sitting at 11' (front row) from a 106" diagonal (92" width) screen (about 1.5 x screen width).

Ultimately, how far you sit from your screen will depend on how far you like to sit from the screen in a movie theater, provided it's more than 1.3 x to 1.5 x times your screen width.

Besides 16:9 DVD's I am watching a lot of sports on 4:3 mode and my plan is to use the 1:1.37 zoom of the 7700 to fill in a 4:3 sreen by enlarging the image and "throwing" the side bars out of the screen. My question is: with a "0" offset, when you enlarge the image with the use of the zoom on the lens, how does the image get bigger, to which direction? Does the offset remain "0"? Meaning - as I hope - the image gets bigger only on the sides and to the one of the horizontal sides? (as I would have the pj ceiling mounted, I would hope the image gets bigger towards the sides and the bottom part of the screen)
Thxs!

Originally posted by _XipHiaS_
Ok, my first post here.
i can only place the pj as high as about 5" just below the top of my screen. Is this projector then throwing the image to low, or won't i have a problem.

Greetings, with the 0 offset the BenQ 7700 wants its lens to be even with the top of your screen. If you are off by 5 inches (center of lens below your top of screen) that you mention, you will have a minor amount of keystoning. However, that is really pretty close. I would expect that (depending on whether your lens is zoomed in, out or somewhere in the middle, the image on the top of the screen will be between 1 and two inches wider than at the bottom of the screen. (I'm assuming a 100" screen). Since most screens have a border at least 2 inches wide, you will simply have a little bit of the picture hitting the black around your screen. You shouldn't notice it.

As to whether you can get the image on to the top art of the screen, virtually all ceiling mounts allow you to tilt the projector a little, so no problem there.

If you are a perfectionist, you'll need a projector with variable lens shift, or a perfect mounting scenario. But for most of us looking for a great image, your situation should be just fine with the 7700. On my own system with a BenQ 8700+ my projector is mounted about 4" higher than ideal, (so I have the reverse - wider at the bottom). I find it a non issue, the screens black border does the job.

On the other hand, the 7700 is awesome, and I don't believe the Sony comes close for overall viewing pleasure. (Don't tell'm I said that on the Sony forum - I don't need any hate mail.

Art, are you saying that you view your image as a trapezoid (cut off to be square) instead of using keystone correction? (I'm assuming keystone correction is available)

Somehow, I think I'm misunderstanding your post...

Yes I do, its a very slightly trapezoidal, and the black frame hides it. My image at the top of my screen is just over 1" narrower than at the bottom. That's tiny on a screen that's 121" wide. While that little keystoning Might be detectable, I'm set so that I perfectly fill the screen at the top, and by the time the image gets to the bottom, I'm putting 1/2" of image on the black of the screen's border on each side. You don't see anything there so it's just not detectable.

I find that infinitely better than turning on keystone correction which definitely degrades the image. I don't think anyone should worry about being slightly trapazoidal, certainly if the difference is only around 1% or so.

Hope that helps.

I can't even imagine viewing some video with vertical lines, and having them be angled... IMO, anything is better than that, including keystoning.

To each his own, I guess.. :)

Could anyone with a 7700 experience throw some light on the following?

Besides 16:9 DVD's I am watching a lot of sports on 4:3 mode and my plan is to use the 1:1.37 zoom of the 7700 to fill in a 4:3 sreen by enlarging the image and "pushing" the side bars out of the screen.

My question is: with a "0" offset, when you enlarge the image with the use of the zoom on the lens, how does the image get bigger, to which direction? Does the offset remain "0"? Meaning - as I hope - the image gets bigger only on the sides and to the one of the horizontal sides? (as I would have the pj ceiling mounted, I would hope the image gets bigger towards the sides and the bottom part of the screen)

Thxs

Originally posted by presenter
Greetings, with the 0 offset the BenQ 7700 wants its lens to be even with the top of your screen. If you are off by 5 inches (center of lens below your top of screen) that you mention, you will have a minor amount of keystoning. However, that is really pretty close. I would expect that (depending on whether your lens is zoomed in, out or somewhere in the middle, the image on the top of the screen will be between 1 and two inches wider than at the bottom of the screen. (I'm assuming a 100" screen). Since most screens have a border at least 2 inches wide, you will simply have a little bit of the picture hitting the black around your screen. You shouldn't notice it.

As to whether you can get the image on to the top art of the screen, virtually all ceiling mounts allow you to tilt the projector a little, so no problem there.

If you are a perfectionist, you'll need a projector with variable lens shift, or a perfect mounting scenario. But for most of us looking for a great image, your situation should be just fine with the 7700. On my own system with a BenQ 8700+ my projector is mounted about 4" higher than ideal, (so I have the reverse - wider at the bottom). I find it a non issue, the screens black border does the job.

On the other hand, the 7700 is awesome, and I don't believe the Sony comes close for overall viewing pleasure. (Don't tell'm I said that on the Sony forum - I don't need any hate mail.


Ah, thank's Art.
I'm a bit of a perfectionist if it comes to screen geometry. Almost every CRT TV i had i corrected settings in the service menu to get the best geometry and convergention :). So, if i wan't to watch the movie... that needs to be near-perfect :).
Keystoning is te last thing i wan't to introduce to the image.

Do's the Toshiba TDPM700 have the same lens offset as the BenQ? Or could that PJ be an option for me with the lens center a bit below the top of the active screen part?

I'm using a 92" diag. screen, almost 10' between screen and PJ, so i need a bit of zooming, about 1.2x, to fill that screen if the Projector calculator is right :). The seat's are straight under the PJ.

Both have the same offset, zero.

cologne -- The zero offset is maintained for all zoom settings of the lens.

Good to hear the senseye is doing something. I still think it may be good to do a bit of tweaking (playing around) is a good thing to do.

In many of our home theaters we have a hung ceiling in the basement and the zero image offset will mean being aware of your head and projector. Ideally you want your eye level to be between 1/3 to 1/2 up from the bottom of the viewing surface. Keystoning causes spherical distortions that can not be mathematically remedied resulting in a loss of detail. I also cannot imagine trapezoidal image viewing. I may have to modify my mount design to accomodate a longer range of movement for this projector.

With the different release dates in different countries. It is based on what the person in charge of the market in your country is doing with it. Some have to bid on how many units for that particular country. There is different packaging requirements ... ie .. in Canada the french language has to be incorporated in the packaging to meet the laws for both English and French.... At times it becomes a fairly expensive exercise if large quantities are not commited.

Robert

Just to clarify, you perfectionists notwithstanding, I don't think the marjority of us can even detect a trapezoid where the length of the short side of the image (top or bottom), is within 1 or 2 % of the length of the long side. You sure aren't going to see it on a basketball.... Remember if you put up a 4:3 image and have it stretched to 16:9, your stretch is 33.33% - So I'm talking say 1/20 or 1/30 of that amount of distortion.

I still recommend that if you have to mount so that you have as small a difference as I suggest, you'll never notice, especially with the border of the screen hiding any overshoot -be it top or bottom.

Now if you buy into my argument, it lets you mount a few inches higher or lower than 0 offset. On a 100" screen, I'd say +/- 6 inches is probably about 2% but I haven't tried actually figuring it out, just guessing based on eyeballing my own setup.
Turning on the digitial keystone correction is what you want to avoid. -art

Separately mandarax suggests eye level to be between 1/3 and halfway up. Technically you should be eyelevel to the center, anything else and your eye is closer or further to the top or bottom.... Which again creates a form of distortion in that, if you sit low, an object at the top of the screen would appear fractionally smaller than the same object at the bottom. This could be every bit as great the trapezoid effect just discussed. I guess you could even have one sort of compensate for the other.

In my setup, I use reclining captains chairs, and the bottom of my screen is about 1 foot ABOVE eye level. Yet no one has complained. I recommend you be more concerned about comfort of the seating position - if you have to tilt your head up to watch, that could be fatiguing. My seats solve that problem perfectly. -art

Presenter

I have been carefully following your reports regarding dealing with the Zero offset...the one thing keeping me from buying either the BQ7700 or the MT700.

In my present setup I have an 8 ft ceiling and a 92" dia screen mounted with the bottom at eye level. Seems ok... perhaps a little high when reclined in the couch/recliner. Screen surface is 40 in from floor and 11 in from ceiling.

However my new house will have a 9 ft ceiling in the dedicated HT so the screen should be 23 in or more from the ceiling meaning the PJ must be the same creating a hazard in a dark room.

Any suggestions short of sticking with a PJ that has offset.

However my new house will have a 9 ft ceiling in the dedicated HT so the screen should be 23 in or more from the ceiling meaning the PJ must be the same creating a hazard in a dark room.

Will you have guests over often who are 7 feet tall? I don't know the layout of your room, but with the projector at 7ft I doubt you will have a hazard because nobody should be tall enough to hit their heads on it. Also, if it is suspended over a couch or something else, it won't be in a place where someone could stand anyways.

None 7 ft but back row raised 1 ft so as you suggest I will have to locate PJ over the first row to clear the 6 fotters as they go in/out of back row.

Back to the layout plan again.

The projector should be placed even with the top of the screen...That is with the projector mounted from the ceiling? My question really is, if the projector is table mounted, then it should be placed even with the bottom of the screen?

if the projector is table mounted, then it should be placed even with the bottom of the screen?

Yes, the zero degree offset applies to wherever it is placed. The image will begin even with the lens of the projector and go upwards. When ceiling mounted the PJ is upside down and the image is flipped with a menu setting. So, the offset doesn't change depending on where it is mounted.

Originally posted by presenter
Just to clarify, you perfectionists notwithstanding, I don't think the marjority of us can even detect a trapezoid where the length of the short side of the image (top or bottom), is within 1 or 2 % of the length of the long side. You sure aren't going to see it on a basketball.... Remember if you put up a 4:3 image and have it stretched to 16:9, your stretch is 33.33% - So I'm talking say 1/20 or 1/30 of that amount of distortion.

I still recommend that if you have to mount so that you have as small a difference as I suggest, you'll never notice, especially with the border of the screen hiding any overshoot -be it top or bottom.

Now if you buy into my argument, it lets you mount a few inches higher or lower than 0 offset. On a 100" screen, I'd say +/- 6 inches is probably about 2% but I haven't tried actually figuring it out, just guessing based on eyeballing my own setup.
Turning on the digitial keystone correction is what you want to avoid. -art

Separately mandarax suggests eye level to be between 1/3 and halfway up. Technically you should be eyelevel to the center, anything else and your eye is closer or further to the top or bottom.... Which again creates a form of distortion in that, if you sit low, an object at the top of the screen would appear fractionally smaller than the same object at the bottom. This could be every bit as great the trapezoid effect just discussed. I guess you could even have one sort of compensate for the other.

In my setup, I use reclining captains chairs, and the bottom of my screen is about 1 foot ABOVE eye level. Yet no one has complained. I recommend you be more concerned about comfort of the seating position - if you have to tilt your head up to watch, that could be fatiguing. My seats solve that problem perfectly. -art

Take a look at the attachment ... I am suggesting that a trapezoid is worse than being a bit off on the height of the screen... If done properly you will not have an image on the screen look smaller at the top or bottom of the screen. Put up a test pattern and see for yourself. If the projector is properly set up images will appear the same size at the top and bottom of the screen. Just because someone is suggesting how not to do it does not make them a perfectionist. They are simply offering their opinion which differs from yours.

Robert

mandarax -- Get real! That picture is no argument. Art is talking about 1%, not the 40% trapezoid that your picture represents.

Question on PE7700 ceiling-mount as it relates to projected image.

I plan to convert my bonus room into my HT. It's a room above the garage with a gable at one end. Though large, the back half of the room's walls and ceilings form an A-frame with a chopped-off top, giving me a 2-foot ceiling gap. The walls go 45-deg from the ceiling to mid-height, with the ceiling height being 8 feet. A crude drawing of the whole room, looks like this, with the described A-frame in the middle.

____________ (ceiling)
| / \ |
| | | |
-------------------- (floor)

I want to mount the PJ in the A-frame part of the room. How far back can I install THIS PJ so the angled walls do NOT crop the image? I want to get at least a 100" screen, hopefully 120". Can I do this? Seating will be about 12 feet back from the screen. Thanks!

Sorry the crude drawing did not work out. Please look at

http://trifs.dyndns.org/a-frame.jpg

for a small image of what I'm trying to portray.

Originally posted by CT_Wiebe
mandarax -- Get real! That picture is no argument. Art is talking about 1%, not the 40% trapezoid that your picture represents.

My trapezoid was running about 1/2 inch on a 106 diag screen size. It's one of those things you won’t notice unless you point it out, or have a straight edge that’s not black. I would have never caught the slight trap I was throwing until I got out my tape measure. Art brings up a good point that a vary small % trapezoid to screen size will not be seen by most.

I was not trying to say everyone should set up a trapezoid, it best to avoid, I was just merely pointing out its one of the many possibility to consider when setting up a zero offset PJ, that you can fudge a little and their not harm your viewing pleasure.

Zilla -- According to the (MT700) manual, the PE7700 should be between 11.5 and 15.6 feet back from a 120", diagonal, screen. For a 100" screen, the distance is 9.6 to 13 feet.

Calculating the other way, If you put your mount at 13', you can fill anywhere from a 100" to a 135" diagonal screen (16:9 screens in both cases).

checklst -- Exactly. I've done that with my L300 LCD PJ and haven't noticed any distortion on my 106" screen (with a SMALL amount of tilt of the PJ).

Zilla - this may help you also...

http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-PE7700-projection-calculator-pro.htm

CT_Wiebe... the attachment was only a depiction of a trapezoid and its effects on the image.. You do not get this effect by lowering or raising your eye level as was suggested...

Robert

Saw the Mits900 today. Nice... might be my alternative as I was told today that infact BW aus have 2600 8700+ units in stock, and at the rate they are sold in Aus, that equates to about 3-4 months before the 7700 is released.... but thats on the assumption they will wait till the 8700 is sold out (makes sense given the difference in pricing).

I will be wanting to make my purchase in under 2 months and only watch SD PAL... and at about 1k cheaper, I think the Mits it is for now anyways :-)

Thanks. Yes I'm aware of the screen calculation programs so I do know that I'll have to put the PJ at least 12 feet back to get the desired screeen size. This puts the PJ into the A-frame part of my room. So my question remains, how far back into the A-frame can I mount the PJ BEFORE it crops the image?

Zilla, looks like you have some math cut out for you there... I guess you could draw out a 3D image with dimensions and someone (including me) may try and figure it out if you're not a big math person. Otherwise, it's a good exercise.. :)

More dimensions are necessary though (at least from what I've seen you specify so far).

Also, perhaps this little math problem should be in a different thread (just specify that it's for the 7700, etc).

Zilla -- miltimj is right. Basically you draw a picture of the room. The image will expand, in a straight line, from the lens to the edge of the screen. If any of that, expanding area, hits the edge of the A-frame, then you will get some shadowing, otherwise, you won't.

If the A-frame part is only about a foot or two in front of the PJ, it probably won't effect the image. But, since you didn't say how far into the A-Frame area the 12' is (at least I don't remember seeing it), we can't tell you.

What you've posed is a problem in geometry, and you have all of the dimensions. So, as miltimj says, draw a 3D picture and see for yourself.

Hint, most manuals show a picture of what the expanding image looks like, between the PJ lens and the screen.

"Hint, most manuals show a picture of what the expanding image looks like, between the PJ lens and the screen."

Ah, yes this is what I need. Can someone please PM me this if available? I can handle the math from there (BSEE major :)

The MT700 manual has been made available by MikeSRC, here:

http://www.surfaudiovideo.com/downloads/MT700_manual.pdf

The visual representation from the manual is probably going to help conceptually, but you'll still have to calculate it mathematically. Given the zero offset of these PJs, however, the math should be relatively simple.

I guess you could draw out a 3D image with dimensions
Actually, I think it's easier than that. Since the most critical portion of the path is the highest point, and since that point is also where the projector hangs, a simple 2D picture of that horizontal plane of the room should provide all that you need.

Don

Great point, Don... that truly is all you need.

Thanks for all the help. I think I'll use the "laser" method and shine my laser level from the center of the makeshift lense of my makeshift projector to the edges of my makeshift screen and see if the laser hits the A-frame's walls first. Empirical data - whatdya think?

Sounds like a plan... you can adjust either further or closer to the screen, as well as vertically up and down from the ceiling to get the desired screen size and height.

Your projected "beam" will be wider than that from your laser.........

"Your projected "beam" will be wider than that from your laser........."

Yes, but I'm only interested in the image's vertical edges, either left or right edge, and I know where those will be.

Arc Tan (__screenwidth __)
2x distance = Angle

Make sure you convert both into inches first.

I have a 106 diag screen that’s 92” widths and its 11 ft from the wall convert to inches and the angle is 19 degrees. This angle is just the half of the image from the center point of the lens.

Get your self a calculator that has an Arc Tangent feature. No I did not do this cal myself, my son an aero space engineer at Georgia Tech breezed through my office and scribbled it down, but being a fairly good carpenter, I would still haft to know measurements of your room for all this to mean much. Math wise for me it would take a point on the floor A in middle of wall a point half way up the wall point b and then measure straight across to point c left side and measure right side to point d. it would look like a T.

I am a vary Tactile kind of guy so instead of measuring your home wall and doing all this math to get the A frame angle I would just build a wooden box or cardboard to the screen size you want in (my case 52” x92” and just slide it up and down the wall and adjust it to a height off the floor that would be comfortable for you viewing pleasure.

Well this is how I read your drawing so I could be wrong in understanding what you are trying to achieve.

Dave
:cool:

Just ordered goo system paint for my 92' screen wall. I was looking around and everyone was recommending perm wall or electric screen, that was over my budget. I have a dedicated wall.
Goo recommeds 2 coats of Digital gray basecoat and 2 coats of digital grey LITE topcoat.

Lot of users are opting for this solution as its cheap and if you move just paint right over it. It cost lot less and quality is very competive.

Will let you know how it goes.

Originally posted by Zilla
Question on PE7700 ceiling-mount as it relates to projected image.

I plan to convert my bonus room into my HT. It's a room above the garage with a gable at one end. Though large, the back half of the room's walls and ceilings form an A-frame with a chopped-off top, giving me a 2-foot ceiling gap. The walls go 45-deg from the ceiling to mid-height, with the ceiling height being 8 feet. A crude drawing of the whole room, looks like this, with the described A-frame in the middle.

____________ (ceiling)
| / \ |
| | | |
-------------------- (floor)

I want to mount the PJ in the A-frame part of the room. How far back can I install THIS PJ so the angled walls do NOT crop the image? I want to get at least a 100" screen, hopefully 120". Can I do this? Seating will be about 12 feet back from the screen. Thanks!


Zilla ... why not just wall mount it ? ... Here is a pic of the wall mount config I did up for the BenQ 8700.. moves on all axis... Also make sure that when you measure you take it from the middle of the lens to middle of the screen.

Robert

"How far back can I install THIS PJ so the angled walls do NOT crop the image?"

Get a ladder and put your eyes where you the pj lens will be. If you can see the entire intended screen area without the ceiling blocking your vision, you're good.

I'm an aerospace engineer too, and I didn't even need to use math:).

Mandaraux, wall mount is NOT an option specifically because of my A-frame situation!

Noah, yes that works too!

Zilla ... is the screen going to be on the flat part of wall ... how high is the wall before it joins the "A" ?? We need some digits..

Heh Noah.. long time no see.. :)

Robert

Just read the manual and came up with two very interesting items one good and one bad. Maybe very bad.

1) First THE BAD: The PIP feature of this projector is very nice. However there are two separate groups of of inputs and PIP works only between the two groups (one source each group). This would not be bad if it were not for the the fact that all of the Digital inputs are in the same group and the analog are in another. I for one intend to use my projector (waiting to purchase till HT/House is built) for both Digital input from a HTPC and from a Dish Reciever with DVI-D. This is a bummer. I would like to feed the PC to the HDMI port and the reciever to the RGBVH and PIP between them using the swap feature. Can not do this on this projector. I am curious what this projectors brother will do in this case.

2) The projector appears to have an easy USER replaceable lamp unit. The instructions look staight forward with no apparent difficulty reaching the replacement part and no special tools required. This for me is an A+

Off to read the PE7700 manual now :-) If i can find it!!

Anyone with the PE7700 confirm the PIP for me? The Toshiba site is down for upgrade (gotta like that :-).

It's not on the Toshiba web site. See the link in post #334:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5529991#post5529991

The MT700 has the same basic manual as the PE7700.

Yeah, i read that post but wanted to confirm just in case there was some difference. By the way that was you 500th post :-)

Ches....

PIP works the same way on the 8700+, so I would imagine that is how it is on the 7700. The 8700 has PIP capability but only between "groups" of inputs, not individual inputs.

HiHoStevo,

Thanks for the reply.. That is too bad. Would be nice to PIP between the digital sources. A nice sizable window for surfing while watching your favorite channels would be awesome :-)

Need to go read the Manual for the Sharp z2k now :-)

The discreet input selection is nice too considering us folks that like to use their universal remote with macros. My current Toshiba TV has a serial input selection with no discreets what a pain.

where are the vents on this projector out of interest?

In my situation i would have to wall mount it upside down, but would i have to buy something specific to the situation or could i get any old stand and just place the projector onto it? presumable that would only work if it doesnt have vents on the top that would be blocked by a stand?

Is that a reasonable way to go about positioning a projector? ceiling mounting is really out of the question so putting it on a wall is the only way for me to go..

i guess same goes for the TOshiba if people here have experience with that..

btw.. are there any detailed comparisons in PQ between this BenQ and the Toshiba.. or are they effectively the same?

Thanks

It a left side intake and it vents in out the front, and it could heat up a small TH room, no need for a furnace duct with this baby running.

If as stated, the PE7700 is the same as th MT700 (I believe Toshiba used the BENQ design), then the vent that blows the hot air is on the front of the unit. When I had it sitting on a tray before ceiling mounting it, it seemed like I could warm my hands with it. You could feel the heat. But since I ceiling mounted it, it is not an issue. I also have an A/C vent just behind it that can be blown onto the unit to cool in the summer if neccessary, but it is a club basement and much cooler anyway.

See the pics of the PJ and mount:
http://www.icsfilm.net/screenshot3.html

ah cool, so no downside to having it upside down.. presumably all the controls that would be on the top are on the remote.. or are they things that you would never really need to use once its set up?

You will always be tweaking it ;) , but most of the controls can be accessed via the remote. The surface mounted PJ controls are easily reached (in my case) and with the exception of the lens adjustments are duplicated on the remote.

TheDarktrooper -- Yes there is. The focus and zoom controls are accessable only from the top of the case (not from the front - see the posted pictures of the 7700)! There is the On/Off button on the top too. Some members have hung their PJ from the underside of the shelf and some have adapted a TV wall mount.

Also, you need to provide clearance between the top of the PJ and the shelf (it uses the top as sort of a heat sink -- users of other PJs have had problems setting their PJ upside down directly on a shelf). Get mounting feet from Radio Shack?

Darktrooper - FYI

I had both the 7700 amd the mt700 for a whole weekend to compare side by side. I have a dedicated HT with Denon 3805 & 2910.
To keep it short - not a darn diffrence at all.
So I saved a lot of money and ordered the Tosh.

So 645cntx, you did not notice any difference with BenQ's Sense Eye? Is it a gimmick? I am still on the fence as my builders have begun today working in my basement. I know I can get a BenQ for just a little more than the Tosh so price (between them) does not matter at this point.

is the Toshiba cheaper in america then? I just had a look at how much it was in comparison to the benq here in the UK.. and it was about £600 more expensive..

i really need to have a look at the Benq in person, fortunately im going up to London in a couple of weeks so i plan on trying to get a look to see if i notice rainbow effects, and to compare it to the Panny AE700, if for some reason the 7700 isnt available, ill probably try the Toshiba out even if it is more expensive..

Are there any kinds of scenes where rainbow effects stand out more than others? I don't want to go looking for them, but if im going to see them i'd like to know before i try a purchase.

Thanks

TheDarktrooper -- Yes, the MT700 is about 16% cheaper than the PE7700 in the US. I expected that BenQ would be cheaper outside the US.

From my look at an Infocus 7205 (same DMD), the problem isn't RBE, it's motion blur. Look at any DVD that has fast panning scenes (I'm planning on using the Pod Race scenes in Star Wars, Episode I).

645cntx -- That's good information, thanks. What inputs did you use, that could make a difference? I'm interested in S-Video, Component, and HDMI, as I am using all 3.

Darktrooper :
if you really wanna see RBE put on subtitles, if they are very bright white you can't miss ít

Please help. I'm using htpc upscaling DVD signal to 720P. I'm using powerstrip to change resolution. What are the timing/refresh rates for this projector? The projector keeps saying that the signal is unsupported.

Thanks

What refresh rate are you using? and Resolution?

I would bet your refesh rate is off...

Try Res of 1280X720
and
Refresh rate of 47.952

Originally posted by FlyingGimp
Kjelt - this is likely Benq covering their rears. They don't want to cater to the freaks like us that use HTPCs. For me on the light-engine-by-BenQ Toshiba MT700, only 1280x720@59.94Hz would sync over HDMI. 1280x720@60Hz, 1024x768@60Hz, 800x600@60Hz, etc. all would not sync over HDMI. My guess is that the 7700's FW will be similar to the MT700's and will also be limited in what it syncs to.

I think this is what you need!

I'm not using HDMI, I'm using VGA to component. Would the refresh rate be any different for that?

Thanks

You need to output the VGA (15pin dSub) from your card to the 5pin RGBHV unless your card is transcoding the VGA (RGB) signal to component video.

I'm using a VGA to component break out cable. Will this work?

Bsims2719 -- Jim Noyd is right, you need to connect your PC to the RGBHV input (DVI to RGBHV is better than VGA to RGBHV - I think - I'm a HDPC novice). This works and also allows you to sync at 48 Hz as well as 60 Hz. See the MT700 thread for details. Member Senor_Curtains has posted his 48 Hz settings (Powerstrip). Here is his post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5543652#post5543652

NOTE: If you're not using a recent ATI or Nvidia Video card (with the latest software updates), you may not be able to send the correct 1280 x 720 signal to the PE7700. You may have to go to the HTPC forum to get more information (if you haven't already).

PS -- 60 Hz is actually 59.94 Hz and 48 Hz is actually 47.951 Hz.

Hey CT, a quick question for you. If you could get either the BenQ or the Tosh at nearly the same price which would you go with?

You're in the US - the MT700 (it's 16% cheaper, right now). In Canada and Europe, the BenQ is cheaper. At least that's the direction I'm leaning. I hope to see a MT700 in action in the next week or so, and I'll have a better idea then. If DLP motion artifacts gets to me, I'll have to rethink my choices :mad: . I was hoping to hear that BenQ's Sense-Eye would help, but that has not been said yet (the MT700 is more than my budget will really allow, and there has to be a significant difference to sway me to spend even more money).

One of the posts that I've read, in the last 2 days, stated that he saw both in action and could not tell the difference (not side by side).

That is funny how the BenQ is cheaper in other markets. It should be the same atleast. I can get them for nearly the same but still I am not sure which one yet. If one could, would an Optoma H77 be better or nearly the same? I really want a HDMI input and the Optoma's have DVI. I did have someone trying to sell me an infocus 7210 today. He was telling me it was the best for Home Theater on the market now...I don't know how he came to that conclusion though...He hasn't even compared it to the newer DLPs...

Originally posted by 645cntx
Darktrooper - FYI

I had both the 7700 amd the mt700 for a whole weekend to compare side by side. I have a dedicated HT with Denon 3805 & 2910.
To keep it short - not a darn diffrence at all.
So I saved a lot of money and ordered the Tosh.

did u notice any noise difference ? Benq is advertising 26db eco mode, Tosh is 29db.

another thing always puzzles me: pj central says Mt700 weighs 7 lbs, Pe7700 is 12 lbs; is this true ? (I only saw the Benq in person. It does look heavy) what does Benq do with this additional 5 lbs ?

joerod -- Both of those are good PJs. I think (but don't know) that the 7210 is an upgrade of the 7205. But unless tha price is very close to the PE7700 / MT700 brothers (fraternal twins?) they're a much better buy, IMHO. The 7205 that I saw was very good, but I'm hoping the MT700 / PE7700 has less bothersome (to me) motion blur.

c722 -- The BenQ does seem to be quieter, but both are acceptable levels (about the same as my current L300). The manual says 10 lbs, PJC is wrong. I'm willing to bet that they're both the same weight. The only difference is a few integrated circuits - not enough to account for any significant weight difference, unless the Tosh has a much cheaper power supply (that would be bad news).

Toshiba weighs 12lbs as well, there is an error in that quote I am sure.
There is a reasonable amount of motion blur in panning, I will have to go compare it to the 7205 at my local shop.

I still feel the Toshiba will be the winner between the two for value, but I do like Benq's warranty and history of service...soooo who knows?

But The Mt700 has exceeded my expectations so far.

I am currently making every possible effort to get the service menu access for either to see what tweaks may be available?


TJ

CT_Wiebe -

I just wanted to add a note that I've found the motion blur on my MT700 seems to be affected by the source. I don't notice too often on HD, or on a Panny RP-82 doing 480p. But, with a Sony 315 480i player on the same material (Firefly DVD), it bugged the hell out of me. This was watching the same two episodes btw. Nothing scientific here, but I think the quality of the source can affect the level of motion blur artifacts.

Thanks Jon. That was what I observed with the 7205 that I saw. I'm really hoping I get the same reaction, 'cause I want one!

PS -- I'm using the RP-91.

Originally posted by joerod
I really want a HDMI input and the Optoma's have DVI.
Why is this a problem? An adapter is like $15...

Every unit I have has HDMI on it. I would like to have HDMI all around. My SP1000 tells me whether it is DVI or HDMI and true RGB cannot be sent thru DVI and for once I would like to see true RGB and better black levels by going all HDMI...Plus the more adaptors and switchers you implement the more the pic Q suffers.

They're both digital signals, and just happen to have different pinouts. HDMI simply carries audio as well as video. There's no difference other than perhaps HDCP compliance, but that has more to do with the source.

I'm not quite sure how you're going to see "true RGB" and "better black levels" (compared with DVI) when HDMI sends this:

..11101000011100011110101010111011..

and DVI would send this:

..11101000011100011110101010111011..

They'll be exactly the same... adapters and switchers will only degrade the PQ if they're low quality, or analog, or a result of attenuation. (Note I'm only referring to the digital side of DVI, of course).

...I should qualify these statements... if the DVI signal is getting there in one piece (all or nothing with digital), you shouldn't have a problem... if attenuation is lost through the adapter connection, you're right in that it will lose PQ. But a straight 3' cable won't be any better than one with an adapter is my point.

The Denon 3910, 5910 and Onkyo SP1000 (I've had them all) all say in their manuals that they cannot do true RGB thru DVI. It is more of a computer connection that shouldn't have been used for home theater in the first place. That is why HDMI (with audio as well) is the logical replacement. Many dvd players rather they are high end or low end have a hard time of passing btb when going HDMI to DVI. Having all HDMI would be one less thing to worry about. Plus while passing true RGB will lead to a better picture. My HDMI connections (atleast on my higher end units) does better pic Q than dvi. My JVC HM5 U has HDMI and it has a RGB option that can be selected but only if it is going into another HDMI connection is it activated. And let's face it, the component connections RGB (in 720p) look excellent enough, and these "digital" connections were only implemented for regulation, not picture quality...

Yup, but you have to add that the HDMI input on the PJ may not correctly sync with the PC, whereas the RGBHV will. Also, the PJ has much fewer adjustment options on HDMI (they're assuming that the HDMI signal has all of the correct setup instructions as part of the complete digital signal). PC Video cards (as of today) are not HDMI and may not be able to add in the correct digital words to give you the right setup info.

Until we get HDMI video cards in our PCs, we will be stuck with this problem. I don't think this can be fixed with the "right" software (although some smart software engineer might be able to figure it out).

Check the MT700 thread.

yes CT, that is why I really like the Onkyo SP1000. It has a special HDMI menu that lets you adjust dither, keystone, gamma, sharp, brightness, colors, and a few other options related to PJs. And yes, computers hand shaking (or lack there of) with HDMI is another problem. Which does make sense since DVI is really a computer term to begin with.

Another "toy" :p . I just looked up the SP1000. It's interesting that it uses the same scaler used in the PE7700 and MT700.

Back on topic, I do know now that whatever PJ I end up with (front runners Tosh and BenQ) it will have a HDMI input. At this point in the game, HDMI has emerged as the "home theater" digital input and I see no reason to invest in any computer-type connections anymore.

Yes CT, the Flex"O"plus scaling system. It is very impressive(the pic Q). I could go on about how nice of a dvd player this is (especially teamed up with its BIG brother TX NR1000 receiver) but then that would be going way off topic. With either PJ I should get killer pic Q using these units. I just want to make sure I squeeze out every last drop.

Has anybody tried 48(47.952)Hz V/F to eliminate 2:3 pulldown judder?
MT700 thread reported some successes, I am about to make a choice between the twins, please confirm.

Thanks in advance

The 7700 has not even made it in to Canada yet so I don't know where the notion that it is cheaper in Canada comes from. You can always get a cable with HDMI on on end and DVI on the other. There is a definite difference in the grade of cable being used by different manufacturers on cable. The HDMI spec has had some improvements in the connectors used and it does make a difference. Some manufacturers have made adjustments on their cable and connectors for DVI cable for lengths longer than 5 meters. As mentioned the spec for the original DVI was meant for short cable lengths for computers and most of the DVI cable comes out of China. There is a few companies in North America through frustration of too many returns on longer runs who bit the bullet and completely revised the spec to improve on performance. I have tested some of their before and after long runs and it does make a definite difference.

The Infocus 7205 is a good candidate if you are using a "huge" screen. I have found that the color decoders used on the Infocus to be among the weakest in the offerings.

If you want to see rainbows .. as mentioned look at credits that are black and white and also turn your head side to side while watching... I would recommend that you don't go out of your way to see these as I have seen some get in a habit of actually trying to see RBE. When I do my shootouts and people fill out the feedback forms on the HD2+ chip there really is not as many people that have a problem with RBE as do have issues with headaches.. The numbers from just over 140 people were about 4% so it is a very small group.. and less than two percent that were bothered by RBE... so your chances are slim... but still better to see for yourself if you can..

Robert

JoeRod ... am interested in your impressions on the SP1000 comparisons and would appreciate you sending me a PM on this.

Robert

I would suggest buying a HDMI-HDMI cable and a HDMI-DVI adapter. The reason is that the HDMI cables are better quality (as already mentioned DVI was designed for short distances), futureproof for other CE equipment like DVD-players, scalers, etc.
The adapter is only $20 the cable is more expensive then a HDMI-DVI cable, but again you have to pay for quality.

Kjelt... for running long distances which we tend to do ... I would recommend sticking with the quality.. I guess it depends on the tenure of ownership on existing gear.. I don't see the HDMI going into computer video boards any time soon... but who knows I could be wrong..

Robert

Originally posted by mandarax
I don't see the HDMI going into computer video boards any time soon... but who knows I could be wrong..

Robert

This fall probably.

Does anyone have the vga input working on their 7700? I got a horrible useless picture with my computer after messing around for a long time, none at all with the iScan HD+, trying a dozen different output formats. I hope it is just that the VGA-BNC cable is bad. Any ideas?
I have a dvi-hdmi cable on the way sometime, so hate to buy another one.
Component 1 works, the silly video input works with my kids spongebob joystick game.
Warren.

Originally posted by mandarax
I don't see the HDMI going into computer video boards any time soon...

Robert I agree but in a HT setup there is more equipment besides the HTPC, if he buys a scaler or dvd player with hdmi he has to buy yet another cable.

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
Does anyone have the vga input working on their 7700?

I have the MT700 (which is about the same PJ) and it works fine, i used powerstrip to set the resolution to 1280*720 (720p) and you can use 50 or 60Hz (it is a standard choice in powerstrip).

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is "powerstrip"????

It is a special program that allows more flexibility in setting resolutions and timing for video cards. See

http://www.entechtaiwan.net/

Here is a good summary of how to use it.

http://www.digitalconnection.com/support/cliffnotes_17.asp

Kjelt,

What type of connections and video card are you using. I can't get mind to work. Using ATI 9600 Pro.

Thanks

Many thanks for the quick and patient reply.

Robert.................

Are you saying that if I run an HDMI/HDMI cable through the ceiling I will suffer losses by using an HDMI/DVI connector at one or both ends?

I was thinking that I could "sort of" future proof the cable run (future = no more than 1 year) by running the HDMI/HDMI then just using adapters for whichever end might need it.............

Originally posted by CT_Wiebe
joerod -- Both of those are good PJs. I think (but don't know) that the 7210 is an upgrade of the 7205. But unless tha price is very close to the PE7700 / MT700 brothers (fraternal twins?) they're a much better buy, IMHO.

*ahem* The 7210 is one of the new DLP's using the DC3 (or DarkChip3) chip that is even better than the HD2+ chip in MT700/PE7700.

A few of the DC3-based DLP's that has been announced are boasting contrast ratios in the +5000:1 area which is *awesome*, really.

AFAIK none are available for demos yet, though...

-Claus

HiHoStevo -- If you use good quality HDMI - DVI adapters, the effect should be minor. Any time you use a connector, you get some loss, that can't be avoided. The loss will be much less than running a DVI cable over the same length. Use of good quality cables (not necessarily the most expensive) is assumed.

Beeblebrox -- That's why I said it was an upgrade. The DC3 is a much better DMD. It's also way out of my price range, as is the 7205 - here in the US.

PJs must be different than DLP RPTVs because the HD2+ chip is better because it has a better black level than the newer 3 chip. So maybe with PJs it is different. Anyway, I had a chance to see a 7205 tonite and it looked very good. I am expecting the newer Tosh and BenQ to look as good if not better though. Has anyone else had a chance to compare these units? The salesman was hellbent on selling me an infocus. He was trying to get me to bite on the newer 7210. But I told him for the coin I would rather the BenQ 7700 or the Toshiba 700. He didn't argue the fact that the newer units were giving better "bang for the buck". He also went on to say that those units would have been two to three times as much last summer.

joerod,

Concerning a comparison between the 7205 and the MT700:
I don't have a way of calibrating these units, but a friend of mine who has a keen eye pointed out several benchmarks to look for. The main being good blacks. We used a Criterion DVD of "The Killing". It's a great noir film and is agood test to eyeball blacks (if you don't have calibration equipment). I haven't seen the 7210 yet so I can't comment on it other than the fact that it better be good for the price and with the newer DC3. The 7205 vs the MT700: we ran the same opening scenes from "The Killers" on two months apart. From memory, I found it hard to discern a difference in contrast on the PJs. The blacks looked great on both. A particular scene was pointed out to me where one of the gunmen turned form a profile shot towards the camera. As he did that, you had a view of his right eye in the glare of a lit sign (night scene). On LCDs we had demo'd you couldn't make out much eye detail. On both the 7205 AND particularly the MT700, you could see every detail including the pupil. My friend was pleasantly surprised when we were able to see that particular detail with the MT700. Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but that is the best I can offer. My opinion, for the money, the 700 really rings my bell. Personally (since I ain't rich), I'd rather spend the extra several thousand bucks I'd save on other stuff (IMHO).

Originally posted by Bsims2719
Kjelt,
What type of connections and video card are you using. I can't get mind to work. Using ATI 9600 Pro.
Thanks

I am using the ATI 9700 Pro. It has two monitor ouputs and I use both to the projector at this time, the first connected through a DVI-HDMI adapter and a 30ft HDMI-HDMI cable and the second with a VGA->5BNC cable.

If you are having problems setting up your computer with the MT700/7700 here are some tips:

-start with setting your screen resolution back to 800*600. Use this since it is the only resolution which has a lower vertical pixel then the projector. So this should go anytime (sometimes the 1024*768 doesn't sync since it has to scale and that depends on the refresh rate of the card). So use 800*600 and you should always have a picture on the PJ if using HDMI input.

- If you use VGA-BNC and 800*600 does not work, check your BNC connections esp. the sync. have you mixed up Hsync and Vsync????

-now you have a picture you can start using Powerstrip to adjust the PJ screen. Don't make mistakes choosing a wrong resolution or you have to start all over again (the PJ doesn't sync and the picture will be blue or black). Safe prooven resolutions are 1280*720 50Hz and 1280*720 60Hz which are defaults in the listing of powerstrip.

good luck.

Originally posted by joerod
PJs must be different than DLP RPTVs because the HD2+ chip is better because it has a better black level than the newer 3 chip. So maybe with PJs it is different.

I am sorry but this is not true. The specifications from TI clearly state that the new Darkchip3 has a higher CR (contrast ratio) then the HD2+. It is also a more expensive chip and to take full advantage of the high contrast you also need a more expensive light engine.

I can not understand if there are sets out there with a DC3 that has less CR then a set with HD2+. If that is the case then the company responsible have messed up the design be it a RPTV or PJ it doesn't matter.

Well, seeing is believeing. Ask most folks who have seen both. They will tell you they like the HD2+ better. The new 3 chip takes something away from the color as well. When I just purchased my Optoma DLP RP I made sure it had the 2+ instead of the 3. A good comparison is to look at the Sammys side by side. Then you will be able to tell the difference. They did boost the specs on the 3, but it hurt the pic Q when they did.

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Robert.................

Are you saying that if I run an HDMI/HDMI cable through the ceiling I will suffer losses by using an HDMI/DVI connector at one or both ends?

I was thinking that I could "sort of" future proof the cable run (future = no more than 1 year) by running the HDMI/HDMI then just using adapters for whichever end might need it.............

Steve ... the quality of the cable used will make a difference... A for instance we have a cable manufacturer here that also makes up cable runs and has OEM manufacturing in China... the OEM manufacturing facility in China is owned by the same company but the cable is not anywhere near the quality of the original brand that is made here in North America. The cost is more than the OEM but the results are there... As was stated by CT_Wiebe avoid an adapter if possible.. There is also less than ideal adapters that minimize or diminish some of the benefits of a good cable. On the runs that I looked at that were just over 80 ft.. it was a dramatic and startling difference. Some companies that have more marketing hype don't necessarily have the products to match the quality of the hype.

Robert

JoeRod: in your original message you stated that the blacklevel of the DC3 is worse then the HD2+, that is the statement i questioned, not the rest of the picture quality or any manufacturer who messed up implementing the chip or which design people find better as others.

Well that is part of it to. I think as many others do that the black level is superior in the 2+ chip. The 3 almost makes the blacks look to gray. Now that is with DLP RPTVs not PJS (I haven't had a lot of experience with different PJs).

Kjelt...

I am going to be biting the bullet on a media center to make it more efficient to run various displays and some other features was specifically looking at this enclosure...

http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-lc14m.htm ...

I was originally going to go with one of the smaller cases and use this with a lcd panel so I could tote it around when doing calibrations.

Its either going to be this route or will be one of these ..

http://www.gspr.com/integra/dtr105.html


with a connection to a media server in a hidden enclosure...

If only money was no object ... :)

*******************************************************

Interested in what you think of the HTPC enclosure... also interested if you have any audio in the HTPC or just using it for video...

Thanks in advance..

Robert

My view on this for what it's worth:

If I had money to burn, I'd do my research on DC3 and go in that direction. Since I didn't have money to burn, I went with the HD2+ MT700 at a lower Internet cost. I originally looked at a Yamaha LCD that was listed at twice the cost of the MT700 and it can't hold a candle to the MT700.

You can't argue with calibrated statistics. DC3 IS better than HD2+, but is it worth the additional investment??? That's an individual and budgetary choice (IMHO).:)

Originally posted by joerod
Well, seeing is believeing. Ask most folks who have seen both. They will tell you they like the HD2+ better. The new 3 chip takes something away from the color as well. When I just purchased my Optoma DLP RP I made sure it had the 2+ instead of the 3. A good comparison is to look at the Sammys side by side. Then you will be able to tell the difference. They did boost the specs on the 3, but it hurt the pic Q when they did.

Sure you aren't getting HD3 and HD2+ (DC3) confused here?

Chip generations as I understand it.. 720P TI DLP Chips

By mfg date (4 = latest)
1. HD2
2. HD2+ (DC2)
3. HD3
4. HD2+ (DC3)

by Quality (4 = best)
1. HD2
2. HD3
3. HD2+ (DC2)
4. HD2+ (DC3)

Note: Some may perfer HD2 over HD3 because sharper picture but HD3 has much better contrast.

Can anyone positively confirm that the BenQ PE7700 can:

a) do 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI

b) disable/bypass the Senseye technology

c) sync to both PAL and NTSC frequncies at 720p

I'm a power user and a HTPC owner and I need to know if I can feed it a straight 720p signal that will be projected completely unmodified.

I have read the thread and I know that 1:1 mapping has been achieved by the MT700 but then again; the MT700 doesn't have the 'fancy' senseye tech. to mingle the picture.

Anyone out there who have actually achieved any of the above on the PE7700?

-Claus

Originally posted by joerod
I think as many others do that the black level is superior in the 2+ chip. The 3 almost makes the blacks look to gray.

Is this comparison made with the same lightbulb with the same amount of lumens coming out or (and that's my guess) did they put a much brighter lamp in the 3 version ?

That is the biggest problem comparing PJ's and RPTV's they keep on changing more then only the chip. A big problem of RPTV's is that they are supposed to stand in at least an ambient lighted room, where PJ's are supposed to be used in a dark room at least the consumer knows that it is supposed to be a bit dark.

So if a RPTV manufacturer get's a new chip with better contrast it might be tempted to think, now i can put in a bigger bulb and get the same contrast with more brightness (a selling point for RPTV). That it kills the blacklevel at the same time is not so much a concern for RPTV standard customers.
For the real movielovers who go for blacklevel it is a dissapointment.

I am not saying that this is the case but I can imagine that this (fictive) scenario might occur.

Beer and Peanuts review of the 7700:
Ok, I got my computer hooked up to my BenQ 7700 with the DVI-HDMI cable. I am assuming the BNC-VGA conector is bad, since all my other inputs work fine. I did no calibration at all. Right out of the box I have to say holy smokes. This is far better than I expected. I played Terminator 2 Extreme Edition High Def version. I cranked it up to like 11' diagonal and about 10 foot seating distance. It seemed the image wasn't quite right till I remembered to switch it to real mode. This is the 1:1 pixel mapping. It is beautiful. Since it is a 2.35 movie I get the black bars. Only in the darkest scenes could I tell they where there. Even at less that 1.0 seating ratio I didn't notice SDE. When I looked for it on bright scenes I could see it. I have perfect vision, but I tend to rather enjoy movies and prefer not to look for it. I really didn't expect it to look so good on that large a screen. I bought a panamorph lens but don't think I need it now. I am just projecting on blackout cloth now. I think a high gain screen like the silverstar might be nice, just to lower the amount of light that hits the ceiling. That is the biggest problem I have.

Claus,
I am pretty sure the senseye thing only works in Home theater mode.
Let me know how to test "sync to both PAL and NTSC frequncies at 720p" and I will do it. I am running 720 p at 60hz. I have a 6800gt. Athlon 64 2800+ if that matters.

Warren.

Originally posted by mandarax
Kjelt...

I am going to be biting the bullet ..................
Interested in what you think of the HTPC enclosure... also interested if you have any audio in the HTPC or just using it for video...


Hi Robert,
the htpc enclosure looks beautiful and the specs look great. I must point out that I myself am more interested in what's inside then how it looks. I have my htpc inside a closet so no noise and looks are also unimportant for me. If you put your htpc in plain view then looks and soundlevel are very important ofcourse. Things to look for are then if you can kill all lights of the htpc (display, leds etc.) since if you are in a dark HTroom you don't want any disturbing lights.
The most important to me is the inside, which Motherboard which processor etc. Goto to the htpc forum to find the latest info because this changes every month.

I use the HTPC for HDTV videostream playback and use the audio without processing; just plain digital out. I have some difficulties with the onboard soundchip now and then so when I will buy a new htpc soon I will definitely get a dedicated soundcard with digital out, like the RME, terratec or audiophile cards which seem to be doing a nice job. Not sure which one i will get, i will also snoop the htpc forum at that time.

I am not an htpc expert so I would suggest that you ask your question also in the htpc forum, maybe there are some members who have bought that particular casing and have some tips or experiences for you.

cheers, Wicher (Kjelt)

Another point to consider on this RPTV/PROJ HD2+/DC3 issue is the environment.

If you are viewing the two RPTV's side-by-side in an electronics store then 99% chance they have not been calibrated. Just pulled out of the box and plugged in. As there is normally a great deal of ambient light to deal with most TV's will be set with their contrast/brightness way to high and the sharpness to full. It has been demonstrated many times that the viewing public when presented with two or more images will almost always pick the brighter image as the "superior" image.

So for the side-by-side test to be anywhere near accurate both of the TV's would have to be run through a calibration set up before they could be compared. The professional magazines when they review large groups of TV's have to go to "great" effort to have all the TV's adjusted to the same brightness level so that no one image jumps out at you due to brightness. That allows the reviewers to actually compare the generated and displayed images instead of having their senses over-run by brightness.

I am completely ignorant about audio issues, but friends who are "heavy duty" enthusiasts claim that you can do the same thing to people reviewing speakers or receivers just by playing with the volume during the comparison.................

Just a thought........

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
Claus,
I am pretty sure the senseye thing only works in Home theater mode.
Let me know how to test "sync to both PAL and NTSC frequncies at 720p" and I will do it. I am running 720 p at 60hz. I have a 6800gt. Athlon 64 2800+ if that matters.

Thanks Warren,
The way to test for 1:1 mapping is to use some kind of test pattern that you can display in fullscreen on your PJ.

I have made this pattern to test with:
pattern_1to1pixelmap_and_overscan.bmp (http://www.sports-mc.dk/beeblebrox/pe7700/pattern_1to1pixelmap_and_overscan.bmp)
The picure (2.7Mb!!!) shows 5 boxes with:
a) vertical lines (top+bottom),
b) horisontal lines (left and right) and finally
c) evenly spaced white pixels (center).

When you display the picture (make sure to use a viewer that shows it in full screen - eg. by using it as a desktop background in windows) you might have to step up really close to the screen to see the difference between each of the pixels.

If any of the following artefacts appears we have a problem:
* lines are unevenly spaced along the length or height of a bar. (example 1)
* lines or dots have become (fully or partly) nice smudged gray areas (example 1)
* There appear any gray pixels within the boxes with lines / dots (example 1)
* vertical or horisontal black or white lines inside the boxes that seems to subdivide the big bars/boxes into smaller sections (example 2)
...then picture is somehow not fitted to the screen pixel by pixel. :mad:

You can see the below two examples of how it should NOT look:
WRONG_pattern_example1.jpg (http://www.sports-mc.dk/beeblebrox/pe7700/WRONG_pattern_example1.jpg)
WRONG_pattern_example2.jpg (http://www.sports-mc.dk/beeblebrox/pe7700/WRONG_pattern_example2.jpg)
(about 200Kb each)

However if:
* the top/bottom bars are all black & white crisp vertical lines...
* the left/right bars are all black & white crisp horisontal lines...
* the center box are all nice crisp single white dots (no grays)...
* and none of the above bars/boxes shows any difference in color/pattern along their length/height...
* the whole picture is surrounded by a thin red line...

...then we are very happy and have 1:1 pixel mapping :D

Thanks for taking your time to do this mate :-)

-Claus

Glad to help if I can. I will do it tonight and try to take some screenshots. I realize my description will probably be the only thing to explain it though. It will be a fun test. You didn't mention how to test for PAL or NTSC sync.
Warren.

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
Glad to help if I can. I will do it tonight and try to take some screenshots. I realize my description will probably be the only thing to explain it though. It will be a fun test. You didn't mention how to test for PAL or NTSC sync.

Sync Test
And I almost forgot this one in my excitement... :D

If you set the refresh rate of the screen to respectively 48 Hz (actually 47.951 Hz), to 50 Hz and finally to 60 Hz (actually 59.94 Hz) and for each setting run JudderTest:
JudderTest4.zip (http://www.sports-mc.dk/beeblebrox/pe7700/juddertest04.zip)

Running JudderTest:
a) umzip it
b) run the JudderTest4.exe file (you might want to virus scan it before running but my comp. shows it as clean)
c) set the 'bar speed multiplyer' to something in between 5 or 8
d) click 'run'.
e) Pressing the 'Esc' key will stop the bar and return to the program control

Now you will have a vertical bar sliding over the screen repeatedly. If the bar is all smooth and straigth, without any clippings or misaligned parts the PJ is sync'ing OK.

If the bar shows up teared or misaligned somewhere along it's length the PJ is *not* sync'ing to the freqeuncy.

Please let me know if I have described it properly - it's kind of difficult to put into words ;-)

Thanks again,
Claus :-)

Oh if you are testing judder under 48Hz please also try to set the Frame rate at 2 refreshes /frame with bar speed at 5. Then I can see if the 7700 differs from the MT700 in that regard. (The MT700 kept juddering in that setup and I am expecting the same of the 7700).

2 refreshes /frame is a settin in Juddertest I assume?
On a side note does anyone know how to stop the stupid screen blanker from coming up while a DVD is playing? I assumed powerdvd 4.0 would have a setting but couldn't find it. Not a big deal, It isn't a permanent HTPC, just want to watch T2 in high def without moving the mouse once and a while.
Warren.

Beeblebrox_dk -- Wow, this is the first time in 40 years that I’ve encountered this problem – we both have the same first name! It looks like we might have problems deciding to whom a comment, or quote, is addressed.

The last time was in 1964 – ‘65, while I was on loan to JPL, one of the JPL employees was also a Claus Wiebe (really rare, except for my dad). Prior to that, I had an office mate in college (1960’s) whose name was Claus Neujar. That was really confusing when someone came in the office asking for “Claus”.

I just changed my “signature” to try to avoid confusion :D .

---------

Warren -- Regarding the “Sense-Eye” question, the BenQ web site is totally silent on the use of these chips in their projectors. The contrast enhancement engine (CEE) is most likely active for all signals:confused:. The CME (color management engine) and the SEE (sharpness enhancement engine) may be shut off for HDMI inputs (a guess on my part). The other functions that BenQ includes are de-interlacing, and scaling (scaling is being done by the Oplus chips, from what has been posted). I don’t know if the Oplus also does the de-interlacing or if that is another “Sense-Eye” function.

The screen blanker is a Microsoft OS function. Do a right-click on your desktop and select “Properties”, “Screen Saver” tab, and set it to "None". You might also have to go into the control panel and set your Power Management entries to “Never” for monitor, hard drive and standby options (and click on Apply). I have to watch out for this too (my Power Management is all “Never” entries, but I normally have the Screen Saver turned on and the DVD player software doesn’t stop it from functioning).

Okay, I'll stop lurking & contribute something. Here's a link to the just posted review at ProjectorCentral.com:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/benq_pe7700.htm

Enjoy!

Nice positive review. I already bought an iScan HD+ so it bums me a bit to say it isn't worth the price, although it is just as much a family factor as anything (assuming the auto switching works as advertised.) I have to agree it is awesome out of the box.
Warren.

Originally posted by Davie Mac
Okay, I'll stop lurking & contribute something. Here's a link to the just posted review at ProjectorCentral.com:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/benq_pe7700.htm

Enjoy!

I'm salivating. My Z2 will find a new home soon. If it's the trash, that's fine with me!

Steve

I found it interesting that on its normal setting, the 7700 seems to have the same black crush that the Toshiba MT700 has (from 15 IRE down). The MT700 has gamma adjustment that the 7700 lacks, but changing it to remove the black crush with the MT700 takes it out of the 2.2 to 2.5 range. It would be interesting to see what's happening with the 7700's gamma in the Home Theater mode. With the MT700, the problem is solved by setting NTSC to "Japan".

For those who have one, does the 7700 have the NTSC USA and Japan settings that the MT700 does?

Ok, the 1:1 pixel mapping test had a problem, the bottom line was blue, not red. Yep, my toolbar was down there. Moved it and it works perfect.

The juddertest was good for 50 and 60 hz for all movement rates 5-8.
I downloaded powerstrip, but can't figure out how to get 48 hz to work right. I go into display profiles -> configure -> advanced timing options and set vertical to 47.951 Hz and the projector goes black. My vga connected monitor works (with a horrible flashing refresh) Do I need to change the horizontal refresh too? Isn't there an easier way to get 48Hz?

I don't see a NTSC - Japan setting, but it could be hidden somewhere.

Warren -- Kjelt posted the settings somewhere (or maybe on the MT700 thread). You might want to send him a PM, and yes you have to change both the horizontal & vertical frequencies.

The MT700 has it under "NTSC Mode" in the Setup Menu.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
For those who have one, does the 7700 have the NTSC USA and Japan settings that the MT700 does?

yes. "IRE Level" ->0IRE, 7.5IRE

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
go into display profiles -> configure -> advanced timing options and set vertical to 47.951 Hz and the projector goes black. My vga connected monitor works (with a horrible flashing refresh) Do I need to change the horizontal refresh too? Isn't there an easier way to get 48Hz?
den somewhere.

maybe the benq simply dun support 48hz, not even upconverting. The spec says : "V-Sync Range: 50 - 100Hz"

I'm salivating. My Z2 will find a new home soon. If it's the trash, that's fine with me!
I'd hate to see your perfectly good Z2 just go in the trash. I'll babysit for you... :D

Ok, I found and tried those 48hz settings. No good. Sorry.

You can also try the settings of "FlyingGimp" in the MT700 thread since he has another brand card.

What also works (but requires a steady hand) is that you put the mouse over the frequency - adjust button and keep pressing from 50Hz down till it goes out of sync, then once in a while it will sync again, retry untill your in the neighbourhood of 48Hz.

SensEye is only activated through Home Theater Mode right? I cannot tell a difference no matter how hard I try switching between modes. Does anyone have a specific DVD example where this is apparent? Also black crush seems to be worse than on my pb6200. Is there something that I have set up wrong.

Thanks

Originally posted by Davie Mac
Okay, I'll stop lurking & contribute something. Here's a link to the just posted review at ProjectorCentral.com:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/benq_pe7700.htm

Enjoy!

Looks like the lack of film mode de-interlacing capability is not just an isolated incident, as Projector Central also found that the 480i input has motion artifacts and panning break up. So, a good progressive DVD or DVDO iScan HD box will be needed for best image.

Except for this and the zero offset angle issue, projector central gave it an overall very good comment.

With the MT700 discussion that it has DCDi and separate RGB gamma adjustment (to help on PE7700's Cinema mode black level issues), if both machines are similar in price, MT700 would seem a better choice. But Projector central also cites that PE7700 MSRP is below $3000, which is different from CES announcement of $3300. Has BENQ lowered the MSRP? or is it a PC mistake?

Bsims2719

Check the "IRE LEVEL" menu option. Whichever one it is set on (please report back) move it to the other one and then re-test.

Tzun.........

Maybe just a new "adjustment" to the pricing structure....

As every discussion that I have seen from the USA listed the Toshiba as cheaper than the BenQ... which seems strange, but that has been the situation for the last month or so.

Originally posted by TzungILin
But Projector central also cites that PE7700 MSRP is below $3000, which is different from CES announcement of $3300. Has BENQ lowered the MSRP? or is it a PC mistake?

They're referring to the minimum advertised price (for authorized resellers) of $2999, which is not the MSRP. Just a small PC mistake. ;)

I would think most of us buying ~3k projectors have progressive scan dvd players. If not then yes, the MT700 is better. Otherwise you need to consider the price advantage of the MT700 to your valuation of another year of warrenty on the 7700.
Myself, it was art's description of seeing more stars than was reasonably possible on his 8700 on projectorreviews that sold me on senseye. I myself don't have another projector to compare it to though. If the 300 bucks price difference was that important to me I just would have got the Optima H31.
On the other hand I am sure the average person, like me, would be blown away by either projector.

I would love it if Mike (or someone else with a MT-700) could check out that same Star War's clip that Art showed a picture of.....

Does the Toshiba show the increased star-field also, or is it more equivalent of the 8700?

Inquiring minds would like to know...............

I'm not one for screen shots, but I could do that Star Wars clip. ;)

I still find it hard to believe that the 7700 does not have deinterlacing that's at least as good as the 6100 (which does have 3:2 pulldown). I'm going to have to get my hands on one soon and run some tests.

Besides DVDs, any SDTV feed will be subject to deinterlacing by the 7700, so that's a concern as well.

The IRE level was set to zero, I changed it to 7.5 and it made a world of difference. The crush is so bad on zero that is almost unwatchable. I still can't see what if anything the Senseye is doing. Is it possible that it only works through HMDI. My cable is still on order.

Originally posted by Bsims2719
The IRE level was set to zero, I changed it to 7.5 and it made a world of difference. The crush is so bad on zero that is almost unwatchable.

That's strange. It's exactly the opposite of what should happen. With the MT700 changing from 7.5 IRE (USA) to 0 IRE (Japan), removes the black crush. Have you tried AVIA or DVE black bars? If you don't have either, see if you have a DVD with THX optimizer on it. With the MT700 set on USA with a 480p feed over component, you can't see the black bars and with THX you only get a few of the 7 bars you should see.

joerod:

regarding the 7205: I've not compared these projectors side by side, but I have spent a good amount of time with the 7205 and the MT700. The only difference I find between the images is brightness. In low lamp mode with everything set for darkened viewing, the MT 700 is a quite a bright projector, but the IF is substantially brighter still. This applies to black levels as well.

I think there is less of a difference in brightness with both projectors wide open - the MT700 gets a huge boost in brightness when you run the lamp on high and boost the white level.

The MT700 is much quieter than the IF, and it has none of the high pitched color wheel whine that I have found on every 7200 and 7205 that I have heard. The MT700 also has the advantage of HDMI.

The InFocus has much more accurate calibration out of the box - it is virtually perfect. The MT700 is a bit off, but it is very easily adjusted for an excellent gray scale. I find both projectors to have similar looking primaries - both excelllent.

One caution on the Toshiba or BenQ which has been noted in other posts: The "zoom" AR for watching non-anamorphic letterboxed material is wrong on the Toshiba. I don't think anyone has noted the BenQ. If you watch any NA letterboxed material you might want to wait until they get this issue fixed.

Other than this issue, I find the Toshiba to be a much better value.

Pip

I am also starting to see the BenQ creep down in pricing. I am going to mate my PJ with a silverstar x series screen 110". I have heard some good things about them. Especialy for ambient light situations. Now if only someone else would shed some more "light" on the Sense Eye feature...

Originally posted by Beeblebrox_dk
JudderTest4.zip (http://www.sports-mc.dk/beeblebrox/pe7700/juddertest04.zip)
That's a really old version. It would be better to direct people to the URL in my signature.

Before I purchased the PE7700 I sold my pb6200 on ebay. I was using HTPC with Zoomplayer and ffdshow and sending it 768 x 1024. The picture always looked great with this setup. My HDMI cable is on order so I have been watching the unit with a standard progressive scan DVD sending 480p to the unit. My problem is that the picture always looks horrible compared to my previous 6200 setup. Should there be this much difference in quality between 480p and 768p. It's not only sharpness but contrast and black crush are the problem. I have an old VGA 3m data projector that looks as good as this. I am starting to think that there is something wrong with the unit. I tried upscaling with 9800pro through component and it won't sink. Also I have tried two progressive scan players and the pe7700 keeps saying that the singal is 525p. Is there anyone else sending 480p to the unit? Does it say 480p and the lower right hand corner? Also if you are sending 480p are you impressed with the quality?

Thanks

Originally posted by Bsims2719
Also I have tried two progressive scan players and the pe7700 keeps saying that the singal is 525p. Is there anyone else sending 480p to the unit? Does it say 480p and the lower right hand corner?

Speaking for the MT700, it does the same thing, that is display 525p in the bottom corner. It's nothing to worry about.

Thanks for the reply. Still concerned about the 480p quality. Will see what happens when the HMDI arrives.


Thanks

I don't know if this has been posted but, ProjectorCentral has a full review up for the 7700.

The findings seem to ring true with those in the thread here, great colors, great contrast, quiet.

They did find the onboard deinterlacer to be substandard and suggested bypassing it for an outboard one, saying the deinterlacer "broke up" heavily and had a lot of trouble with panning on interlaced material, the scaler's output was noted as good for 1080i to 720p but on 480p up it was slightly soft.

They did not refer it to their Highly recommended list though?
It got better scores that most of the competition on the current list?

I wonder if they will review the Toshiba since it is basically a clone?

Seems like a winner though, I will say I would like the extra Benq warranty and swap program, but after reading the review and this thread I think I made the right move saving 400 bucks and going with my Toshiba, plus the added gamma menu in the advanced menu to get it close to 2.2

You really can't go wrong with either it would seem.
Now we need that damn service menu to see what makes these guys tick?


TJ

ProjectorCentral and I think the picture of the 7700 is very good out of the box, without calibration, which is an advantage to some of us.
I think a 110" silverstar is going to be small. I was planning that size screen till I got my projector. Just throwing it at some blackout cloth I crank it up to 140" diagnol and love it. Zooming it down does increase saturation a bit, but lowers enjoyment. I just can't imagine how cool it would be on a 140" silverstar. After watching T2 Exreme Edition in High Definition I really can't wait for HD-DVD and/or Blue Ray. The iScan does a nice job of scaling, but you can still tell the difference. I really like the auto input switching.
Warren.

Originally posted by Bsims2719
Also I have tried two progressive scan players and the pe7700 keeps saying that the singal is 525p. Is there anyone else sending 480p to the unit? Does it say 480p and the lower right hand corner? Thanks

480p and 525p are one and the same: NTSC progressive. the 525 are the total of lines in the NTSC video signal, 480 are the total of lines containing the video.

The same is true for PAL: 576p and 625p are the same.

You may have a point about the 110" screen size but most home theater people I talk to have a 92" screen! They think I am nuts for wanting a 110" screen. I have been contemplating doing a 120" instead but I realize that is not much bigger. I only have so much room on my wall (some is set to build in shelves for my equipment). So it is either 120" or 110". And I really am a picture Q freak and do not want to push the limits...to much...

joerod -- Go for it:D! The 120" is about 10" wider than the 110" (105" vs. 95" in round numbers). That 10" is worth it if it will fit your room. I went from a 80" wide screen (4:3) to a 92" wide screen (106", 16:9) and that was a BIG improvement. The PE7700 has plenty of light output to handle it.

I've seen a 92" diagonal, 16:9, screen (also 80" wide) and they are positively tiny compared to mine. The 120" will be a big improvement over the 110", IMHO.

Thanks CT, actually it is a 123" screen (the next one up). It is 60 inches tall and 107 inches wide. So 54 vs 60 and 96 vs 107. Well, I might as well. I already measured it and it fits, so if I am going to do it I may as well do it right the first time. I don't want to be sitting there wishing I got the bigger one. I just got back today from buying nice, red electronic movie seats. They have the cup holders built in. I got 6 of them, 3 for back and 3 for front. Anyway, thanks for the advice everyone, Joe

joerod I don't think you are nuts, I just got my 7700 2 week ago and do not have my HT done yet and like you I projected it on a wall and watched a few movies and fell in love with the larger screen size. When I sized it down to our electric screen I had built into the ceiling my wife said NO WAY she could watch such a small screen.

So out came the screen and I built a recessed pocket into the wall and will put a fix mount 106 or a 110 or will do a Goo painted wall screen. I am going to run some test with different materials and paint first.

YOU are making the right decision on the larger size it just makes the movie A TRUE theater movie event.

Thanks checklst, I will definitely go with the 123" size. This is really funny, when I started out I was at 92", then 102" and then I thought I would be done at 110"! Now we are late in the game and right at the 2 minute warning I jump to the 123" screen. I can't go any bigger (room won't allow) but I am sure after I put in my first movie, I will be glad I did go up in size...Now, what will be played first?

I cant get it to work. I am running htpc with 9800pro over dvi/hdmi. It says 720p/60 in the lower right hand corner and will display windows for a brief second and then goes black. On the one time that it did not go black the icons on windows and the start menu were all off the screen. Does anyone have any ideas.

Thanks in advance.

Are the MT700 and 7700 street prices the same, or is one of them cheaper right now?
Is the 7700's smarteye technology worth choosing the benq over the toshiba for, given the better adjustments available on the MT700?
Are the warranties on each comparable?

1. 7700 advertised prices are governed by BenQ and must be at $2999 (if you want to keep getting product from them), but they can be sold for less. Any discussion of actual street prices is not allowed on this forum. However, dealer cost on the BenQ is higher than the Toshiba.

2. Can't answer your second question as I haven't seen a 7700 side-by-side with the MT700 yet.

3. BenQ has a year longer (3 vs. 2) warranty than the Toshiba.

Originally posted by joerod
Thanks CT, actually it is a 123" screen (the next one up). It is 60 inches tall and 107 inches wide. So 54 vs 60 and 96 vs 107. Well, I might as well. I already measured it and it fits, so if I am going to do it I may as well do it right the first time. I don't want to be sitting there wishing I got the bigger one. I just got back today from buying nice, red electronic movie seats. They have the cup holders built in. I got 6 of them, 3 for back and 3 for front. Anyway, thanks for the advice everyone, Joe

There is no 123" SilverStar. It is 120.5". The actual screen is 59" x 105". If you check their web site you will see that it has been corrected. I am currently using a 4805 with an ND2 filter on mine and I think it's great. Definitely get the deluxe 3.25" black velvet frame. It's well worth it for that quality look.

Thanks Smithfarmer, I will have to let my dealer know then. He claims I am ordering a 123" screen. I did get the 3.25 inch black velvet border to. Does the screen size include the black border or is it 120.5" of white screen corner to corner? Also, has anyone been using a ND filter with their BenQ? I thought I would start without it. I could always get one if needed. There may be times when there is some ambient light in my HT (basement)...

Hey Joe,

Actual screen size excluding the frame is 59" x 105" or 120.5" diagonal. Vutec's dealer price books are incorrect as to screen size on the largest SilverStar. You can check out Vutec's website for the updated info.

Thanks! So do I call it a 120" screen or a 121" screen? Seriously, I don't think there is much difference between 123" and 120.5". Well, maybe 2.5"...So Smithfarmer, is it really as good as the hype? I got a great deal on it, my dealer even said I shouldn't have got this good of a deal and it was his mistake. So either way, I can't complain...

Originally posted by MikeSRC
I'm not one for screen shots, but I could do that Star Wars clip. ;)

I still find it hard to believe that the 7700 does not have deinterlacing that's at least as good as the 6100 (which does have 3:2 pulldown). I'm going to have to get my hands on one soon and run some tests.

Besides DVDs, any SDTV feed will be subject to deinterlacing by the 7700, so that's a concern as well.

Dear Mike,

I found it hard to believe as well when I first discovered PE7700 did not pass the SuperSpeedway DVD on film mode de-interlacing. Therefore, my first guess is that it maybe a firmware bug or an isolated buggy unit that I reviewed.

But now, Projector Central also make that comment, so either PE7700 does not have film mode de-interlacing at all or it is a firmware bug on the first batch of production units that are out there in the states now. If it's the latter, BENQ should fix the bug and make the firmware update available to all PE7700 owners. Like you said, all SDTV needs proper de-interlacing, so it is a concern.

However, if it's the design oversght or design consideration to take out film mode de-interlacing (thinking that Progressive DVD is so cheap everywhere), then it may not too surprising as well, since Widescreen Review also finds that SHARP Z2000 also is lacking film mode de-interlacing. So this may become a design trend? :p

MT700 insisting on using DCDi is a good thing, just like Infocus X1/SP4800/SP4805 all using DCDi.

Originally posted by joerod
Thanks! So do I call it a 120" screen or a 121" screen? Seriously, I don't think there is much difference between 123" and 120.5". Well, maybe 2.5"...So Smithfarmer, is it really as good as the hype? I got a great deal on it, my dealer even said I shouldn't have got this good of a deal and it was his mistake. So either way, I can't complain...

Joe, so I don't hijack this thread, I sent you a PM.

when we did our theater room, I was going to put curtains beside the area of the wall I used for the screen. Then I got the projector and shot it on the wall - out went the curtains and my screen became 12 feet wide.

Does anyone know generally who make a higher quality projector – BenQ or Toshiba?

Toshiba doesn't make projectors. BenQ makes the MT700 for them. Infocus makes the MT800 for them.
Warren.

Toshiba's projectors are often outsourced, so you're not comparing to two per se. In the case of the Toshiba MT700 and BenQ 7700, both are made by BenQ, with Toshiba only modifying the design somewhat. Reliability of the two should be equal.

I know this is "off thread" but I had an installer over here today (for second opinion) and he was telling me that sitting back (back row) 20 feet and up front (front row) 15 feet, a 120" screen would be to big. I don't want to get a smaller one then wish I had gotten the bigger. He also disagreed about my silverstar being a great screen (of course he was trying to sell me one of his). He said a 6.0 gain screen (of course then he said he never heard of one that large) would be way to bright a picture and it would not look good at all. The kicker is he then tried to sell me an infocus. He came out with the construction crew who is doing my basement. They sub contracted him for some wiring. Does anyone agree with him on his points? Mainly the screen being to big?

120" isn't too big at all. I really tried a smaller screen but it just wasn't as fun. Crank it up. I have a 144" diagnal and sit at 10' sometimes. I love it, love it, love it. I think 120" is too small. He doesn't know much if he doesn't know about the Silverstar screen. It isn't really 6 gain, but it is still going to be one bright puppy. If you like plasma brightness you should be happy. If that worries you maybe you should ask someone who sells them (like our sponsors) if 700 lumens on a silverstar is ok.
Warren.

IMO, there's no way a 120" screen would be too big with 15' and 20' seating. It very much depends whether you like bigger screens or not, and what type of projector, but I'd imagine a 720p DLP would not show SDE at 15'. If my seats were 15' and 20', I'd be around 110" with my Infocus X1 (480p DLP), and only limit to that size due to SDE.

It absolutely looks like he's trying to sell you something (actually, a lot of things). I've been wondering whether the Silverstar would be too bright, however, especially given others' comments about needing an ND2 filter. If you have a light controlled room and a bright PJ, I would think that the silverstar may be too bright. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread (or the MT700's), wouldn't the ND2 and a high gain screen be redundant (cancel each other out)?

In a nutshell: yuck.. subcontractors. Which Infocus did he try to sell you?

The thing is the silverstar blocks a lot of ambient light, plus the high gain means less light hitting the ceiling, which I was suprised to find is my biggest problem (the screen lights up the ceiling, which lights up the screen making blacks not so black.) I thought I just had to worry about ambient light, but not so. I think the silverstar with a filtered projector would be much better at blocking light than a non-filtered projector on a white screen. Of course I am just guessing.
Warren.

I think he said the 7805 then some other newer model. Which was way more than I planned on. Plus it didn't have HDMI. I really want HDMI. Everything else I have is HDMI. Thanks everyone for your support. My room will have some light in it, like Sunday during BIG footabll games. I will make it darker for movie time though. I will get a filter when I find out where to get one(someone please PM me). ANyway, my screen wall will be sorta like this -__- the middle representing where the screen will hang. The left - will be an equipment rack. I though it would look cool set up like this...

Originally posted by joerod
I know this is "off thread" but I had an installer over here today (for second opinion) and he was telling me that sitting back (back row) 20 feet and up front (front row) 15 feet, a 120" screen would be to big. I don't want to get a smaller one then wish I had gotten the bigger. He also disagreed about my silverstar being a great screen (of course he was trying to sell me one of his). He said a 6.0 gain screen (of course then he said he never heard of one that large) would be way to bright a picture and it would not look good at all. The kicker is he then tried to sell me an infocus. He came out with the construction crew who is doing my basement. They sub contracted him for some wiring. Does anyone agree with him on his points? Mainly the screen being to big?

I would completely disagree. I have a 12 foot wide screen. My rows are 13' 3", 17', and 20' 9" from the screen. I can zoom the picture up and down and it just doesn't look as good smaller.

Originally posted by joerod
I know this is "off thread" but I had an installer over here today (for second opinion) and he was telling me that sitting back (back row) 20 feet and up front (front row) 15 feet, a 120" screen would be to big. I don't want to get a smaller one then wish I had gotten the bigger. He also disagreed about my silverstar being a great screen (of course he was trying to sell me one of his). He said a 6.0 gain screen (of course then he said he never heard of one that large) would be way to bright a picture and it would not look good at all. The kicker is he then tried to sell me an infocus. He came out with the construction crew who is doing my basement. They sub contracted him for some wiring. Does anyone agree with him on his points? Mainly the screen being to big?

My first row is at 15'4"(1.75 x screen width) and the second row is at 21'4" and I love it. I do get a very slight SDE from the first row, but that is with an Infocus SP4805, a native 480P PJ and the ND2 filter helps in reducing this artifact. From the second row I cannot see any SDE at all. You really should have no problems with a native 720P pj at those distances on a 120" screen. The SilverStar is a lot closer to 3.0 gain in reality. Another good reason for using the ND2 filter is that when your lamp reaches it's half life, you pop off the filter and it's like getting a brand new lamp.

Can someone please PM me and tell me what size filter to order? I think I better have one in case I am "blinded by the light". Thanks!

I believe it's 67mm. It should be the same as the MT700. Actually 67mm is a hair too small, the hint was to put a rubberband around it for a snug fit. The next size up is too large.

Yup, just checked the MT700 thread, it is 67mm.

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
Ok, the 1:1 pixel mapping test had a problem, the bottom line was blue, not red. Yep, my toolbar was down there. Moved it and it works perfect.

The juddertest was good for 50 and 60 hz for all movement rates 5-8.

Warren,

Thanks a lot for taking your time to test those things for me :) :) :)

So to recap for new readers we can now confirm that the PE7700 does indeed have
- True 1:1 pixel mapping
- Can sync to both 50Hz and 60Hz without tearing
- That the Senseye technology isn't interfering with the picture in a way that destroys the pixel patterns posted earlier

Due to a crazy work load I haven't had time to reply before now but I appreciate getting these things confirmed by you.

I am going to put my money down for this baby later this afternoon and then it should arrive within 8 days :-)


A few questions
- Has anyone found a downloadable manual for this baby yet?
- Has anybody figured out how to enter the service menu?
- Is it true that there is no advanced gamma ramp adjustments on the BenQ?


Once again thanks Warren for doing these tests and posting the results here :)

-Claus

Originally posted by CT_Wiebe
Beeblebrox_dk -- Wow, this is the first time in 40 years that I’ve encountered this problem – we both have the same first name!

Haha weird :D

Here (in Denmark, Europe) Claus is a quite common name and several people (40 out of 1600 at my work place) are named Claus (29), Klaus (10) or Klavs (1) so to me it's an everyday experience ;)

-Claus

Thanks CT!

Originally posted by Beeblebrox_dk
A few questions
- Has anyone found a downloadable manual for this baby yet?
- Has anybody figured out how to enter the service menu?
- Is it true that there is no advanced gamma ramp adjustments on the BenQ? [/B]

I haven't found anything for your first two questions. I've tried other BenQ service menu codes with the MT700 with no effect. As to the gamma adjustments, all I've heard is that the BenQ doesn't have them, but I got a product notification e-mail from Benq today about the 7700 that included the picture in the attachment below, which indicates gamma adjustment ability. Very strange.

Mike..................

If you have time, query BenQ about the 7700's poor performance with SDTV or Interlaced material. Apparently it also does not have 3:2 pull-down. See if this is something that was intentionally left out, so they could hit a lower price point.... thinking that everyone was using progressive DVD player's anyway.

Thanks,

Originally posted by MikeSRC
As to the gamma adjustments, all I've heard is that the BenQ doesn't have them, but I got a product notification e-mail from Benq today about the 7700 that included the picture in the attachment below, which indicates gamma adjustment ability. Very strange.

Just today, when I visited BenQ's US site I found this:
Adjustable gamma curve (http://www.benq.us/Products/Projector/index.cfm?product=551)

Which is the same graphics you posted a link to! Everthing is pointing towards an ajdustable gamma curve! Nice :D

There is also a new review up at Projector Reviews (http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=33) giving the PE7700 pretty good recommendations. According to PR.com the SenseEye-thingie is doing a pretty decent job at improving dark details, which is also nice.

Thanks,
Claus

Originally posted by Beeblebrox_dk
Just today, when I visited BenQ's US site I found this:
Adjustable gamma curve (http://www.benq.us/Products/Projector/index.cfm?product=551)

Which is the same graphics you posted a link to! Everthing is pointing towards an ajdustable gamma curve! Nice :D


What's odd is that the MT700 has separate RGB gamma (curve) adjustments, but everyone who has the 7700, says it doesn't. The graphic would indicate otherwise however. The question is: If it's there, where is it?

Originally posted by MikeSRC
The question is: If it's there, where is it?

Ask BenQ if they think it isn't a bit late for an easter egg? :D

I know it is not rocket science, but what ND2 style filter is everyone ordering? They have ultra thin, HMC multi color, wide angle, and double coated! How many different kinds of filters can they make???

Given what I thought was a lower street price on the Toshiba MT700, it's Faroudja de-interlacing, and the gamma control, I'm curious what advantages the 7700 has which would tip the scales in it's favor? Warranty?

I'm thinking of purchasing one of these, and am trying to weigh all the options. Thanks.

2 vs 3 yr warranty is one (IIRC).

Senseye maybe - depends on how the upcoming comparison will go.

Others? Not sure.

Dead Pixel warranty is better also I believe............

Unfortunately the lack of a good de-interlacer kills it for me.... as I spend way to much time watching SD on the SciFi channel.

That's what's doing it for me too, HHS. Gonna get the MT700 unless something else comes up to shed a different light on them.

Hey guys I have found no plotted gamma curve as shown on your link their are separate RGB Gain adjustments (0-510), in the Advance menu along with separate RGB Offset adjustments. Maybe the plotted curve is with an HTPC, their are some blacked out menu items not available to me on component input from a 480I DVD.

Their is a menu listed for PC component adjustment YPbPr- and Frequency Phase H, V.

I also ran across the menu for normal color, tint, sharpness ect.........with a sub menu ENHANCED COLOR with separate Red, Green, Blue, Yellow and white adjustments channels.

I did run across a setup menu called Black Level 0, IRE, 7.5 IRE this is the IRE switch that Art at Projector Review used to see more STARS in the Star Wars opening seen, it is quite a shock to see a doubling of the stars by switching from the default 7.5 to 0 IRE, and it has only a little effect on the black level. The 0 IRE gave me a lot more detail in the shadow and black areas and I will leave this adjustment in affect ,because it's over all effect on contrast was minimal and vary pleaseing to my eye.

I have watched movies for 2 weeks now on a 480I only DVD over component cables, so I can't give any info on DVI-D,720,1080 ect....... I have not finished the HT and the construction dust has kept me form the in wall cables.

I have had no artifacts that jump off the screen and scream theirs a problem, with only a 480 interlaced signal I thought I might, but so far so good. I hope I can soon test my new Oppo DVD upscaler over the DVI/HDMI cable but not until the dry wall dust has been cleaned up sheeeese!! What a mess.........

Hope this helps a little :)

Originally posted by jonnyozero3
2 vs 3 yr warranty is one (IIRC).

Senseye maybe - depends on how the upcoming comparison will go.

Others? Not sure.

noise? advertised 26 against 29. to me it's a big deal, if it is really quiet.

noise? advertised 26 against 29. to me it's a big deal, if it is really quiet.

I'd be surprised if there was a significant difference in fan noise. I do know my MT700 is damn quiet. I think the difference in numbers may just be part of the oem deal between BenQ and Toshiba. Just like the different contrast and lumen numbers, etc. Obviously that's a guess (waiting on the comparo). If there is a big difference in noise levels then good catch, that's a valid point for the BenQ.