Originally posted by jonnyozero3
I'd be surprised if there was a significant difference in fan noise. I do know my MT700 is damn quiet. I think the difference in numbers may just be part of the oem deal between BenQ and Toshiba. Just like the different contrast and lumen numbers, etc.

Curiously enough, the PE7700 and the MT700 are being marketed with the exact same specs in UK, Scandinavia, Germany. The US site is the only site where the MT700 appears weaker than the PE7700!

So based on numbers I wouldn't worry - unless it's some strange colour wheel speed thats faster for NTSC material (though, I would believe it to be opposite)

Just my 2 cents.
Claus

Alright, I have one quick question. If you could get an Optoma H77 for about 1200.00 more, would you? The 7700 just came out so would it be comparable anyway? Or is the H77 superior? I really want the HDMI connection and the H77 does not have it. But if the pic Q would still be far superior then I would think about it seriously. Doeas anyone have any opinions or experiences with both? If they would be similiar in pic Q then I will still take the BenQ...Man, there is less than a minute in the game and I have to make a decision soon...The PJ will be ceiling mounted next week...

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Dead Pixel warranty is better also I believe............

Unfortunately the lack of a good de-interlacer kills it for me.... as I spend way to much time watching SD on the SciFi channel. If you have an HD cable or DSS box, have it upscale the SD channels to 720p. You'll bypass the 7700's internal deinterlacer.

Joerod,
My guess probably isn't more helpful than the next, but Projectorreviews says the 7700 is better than the 8700, which was a pretty direct competitor to the Optoma H77. My understanding is that the Optoma H77 has better blacks though (perhaps because it is dimmer,) so in a light controlled room it would be really nice. I took my 1200 and bought the iScan HD+ which is sure nice. I would recommend getting the 7700 or MT700 and saving the 1200 for the next generation projectors. 1080p isn't too far off. Or save it for Blue-ray/hd-DVD hopefully this year.
Warren.

Have anyone got a perfekt pixel mapping with the BenQ 7700 throug the analog input? if so how?

I'm trying to find the article, but I believe it was Greg Rogers of Wide Screen Review that pointed out that it is very difficult to acheive 1x1 pixel mapping using component because of the analog to digital conversion. Basically, the only sure way to get 1x1 pixel mapping is to connect a digital display device (the BenQ PE7700) to a digital connection (HDMI or DVI).

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
Joerod,
My guess probably isn't more helpful than the next, but Projectorreviews says the 7700 is better than the 8700, which was a pretty direct competitor to the Optoma H77. My understanding is that the Optoma H77 has better blacks though (perhaps because it is dimmer,) so in a light controlled room it would be really nice. I took my 1200 and bought the iScan HD+ which is sure nice. I would recommend getting the 7700 or MT700 and saving the 1200 for the next generation projectors. 1080p isn't too far off. Or save it for Blue-ray/hd-DVD hopefully this year.
Warren.

To be fair, let me just stating the fact:

1. H77 is using HD2+ with DVE color wheel, while PE7700 is only HD2+ 6-segment color wheel, H77 is better in terms of get rid of low level green dithering noises due to 10-bit green color processing

2. H77 has lens shift, 1.35x power zoom and power focus

3. H77 is very quiet, PE7700 is also quiet, H77 is simply quieter.

4. PE7700 is lacking 480i film mode de-interlacing, H77 has 3-2 pull down film mode de-interlacing.

5. H77 has two gamma controls and adjustments, PE7700 is lacking somewhat

6. H77 has higher contrast, the Corsina lens it uses has aperture design to help improve the contrast (if you look into H77 lens while power up, you''ll see the aperture) Corsina lens is also selected by BENQ's PE8720, BENQ's $10,999 720p monster.

7. You can use a 16x9 lens with H77, H77 has a mode for 16x9 lens for 2.35:1 720p display

if you put PE8720 to compare with H77, then PE8720 is almost the same as H77, with additional features like, power lens shift, and stated higher contrast due to Drakchip3. So, actually, H77 is more or less on the same level as PE8720, not PE8700+ (lack of DVE color wheel, no lens shift no power zoom/focus, no Corsina lens, loud, ...)

Is H77 worth the extra $1200 is really a subjective judgement. You have to make that by yourselves. Both are good machines, just at different levels. I've seen both, PE7700 has good brightness and accurate color, H77 simply has richer color, higher contrast and image depth. You won't go wrong either way, it's more a cost/performance trade-off issues

However, wnielsenbb does make one good point, if you do go for PE7700, you should use that $1200 to get a iScan HD+ to help issue #4 and maybe #5 (if iScan HD+ has gamma control). A two-piece set up will also help on wiring issues, just connect all input to iScan HD+, and run one cable to PE7700. That said, you are still lacking the DVE 10-bit green, lens shift, power zoom/focus, ...

If your budge is limited, go for MT700 or PE7700 (whether you want DCDi/gamma or better warranty ). Or, go for the full-featured H77 if you can afford it.

If you can go check out both before you make the decision, that would be the best. Trust your own eyes, after all, we are just moving our lips ... :D It's your money and your eyes that wll be put to use!!!

Originally posted by TzungILin
4. PE7700 is lacking 480i film mode de-interlacing, H77 has 3-2 pull down film mode de-interlacing.
5. H77 has two gamma controls and adjustments, PE7700 is lacking somewhat

However, wnielsenbb does make one good point, if you do go for PE7700, you should use that $1200 to get a iScan HD+ to help issue #4 and maybe #5 (if iScan HD+ has gamma control).

You can also go for the MT700 (save extra $) AND have #4 and #5 fixed!

Originally posted by TzungILin

6. H77 has higher contrast, the Corsina lens it uses has aperture design to help improve the contrast (if you look into H77 lens while power up, you''ll see the aperture) Corsina lens is also selected by BENQ's PE8720, BENQ's $10,999 720p monster.


Come on people. Let's get realistic.
BenQ PE8720 for more than 10.999$ ?!?!?!?!?
If you run Pricerunner.com on the projector you'll get prices almost half the MSRP.

Get real!
Forget the MSRP of 10.299$

projectorcentral has a comparision of the 8700, MT800 and Optoma H77. They rated the MT800 over the Optoma H77. They apparently thought the 8700 was behind those two, although they did say with the iScan the price was cheaper (at the time apparently) and it provided awesome DVD quality. For HD stuff they recommended one of the other two.
I was close to getting the H77 myself. I do like the iScan a lot though. Plug anything into the iScan, digital audio too. One optical cable to the stereo and one hdmi cable to the projector. I have my TiVo defaulted. You can be watching DirecTV and turn on the DVD player and it switches automatically to DVD video and audio. Don't have to push a singe button on any remote. Turn on the XBox and same thing. No buttons. The whole family likes it a lot.

Oh, one more thing. The BenQ 7700 has by far the most beautiful case of any projector I have seen. Very wife friendly.
Warren.

The Wife-Factor (WF) is very important... I to noticed how nice this PJ looks!

Originally posted by checklst
I did run across a setup menu called Black Level 0, IRE, 7.5 IRE this is the IRE switch that Art at Projector Review used to see more STARS in the Star Wars opening seen, it is quite a shock to see a doubling of the stars by switching from the default 7.5 to 0 IRE, and it has only a little effect on the black level. The 0 IRE gave me a lot more detail in the shadow and black areas and I will leave this adjustment in affect ,because it's over all effect on contrast was minimal and vary pleaseing to my eye.


This may have been covered before, but this is my take on what is happening here.

If your source (DVD player) has the set-up pedestal of 7.5 ire which I would think all North American DVD players and analogue tv would have, then you are sending a 7.5ire signal to the projector. This is in fact an analogue voltage of approx 53millivolts, and is what the source will send out when it gets a 'black' signal (digital 16 from the DVD). The projector is set to 7.5 ire will then display black on your screen. Anthing above that will be grey to white.

If you set the projector to 0ire, it will expect 0ire from the source, which should be 0millivolts and the equivalent to black. anything which is above 0ire will be displayed as grey.

So what you're doing there is sending out a dark grey (53mv) instead of black (should be 0mv) as far as the pj is concerned, and that's why you're seeing more stars - you've raised the brightness level. I think the projectors 0ire and 7.5ire setting is there to be matched to the sources black output. Here in the UK we would set it to 0ire for PAL sources, and if the DVD player has a 0ire option for NTSC, then we would set it to that so our multi-region players will output the same millivoltage for black (PAL and NTSC) and only one calibration will be needed.

Except for THX Optimode DVDs, you should use Avia to set the white and black levels to ensure you're seeing things as intended.

Gary.

I finally got the 7700 working. Thanks to the previous poster for the timings. I am using an htpc with 9800pro over dvi/hmdi. I checked 1 to 1 with Phillips and it was dead on with the posted timings. Before I received the dvi cable I was sending the projector 480p with a standard dvd player. I have to say that the pq difference is night and day. I was beginning to think that I made the wrong purchase viewing 480p for a week. However, the 720p picture is amazing. My previous projector was a pb6200. The biggest improvement over the pb6200 is the colors. They are significantly deeper and richer. Makes for a more pleasurable viewing experience. I also love the fact that I no longer have the grey bars top and bottom with the 4:3 chip. I read some previous posts that the optics are not sealed. Has this been confirmed. The optics on the 6200 are sealed. Seems crazy to take a step backwards. Anyway thanks for the help on getting my setup working.

Brent

Thanks Gary Lightfoot, I think, you are about 5 levels above my head(knowledge) wise. I reset the IRE to 7.5 and just did a few clicks of brightness and got back to the same picture quality I liked, down hear in the south we have a saying, two ways to skin a cat.

I do apologize for butchering the English language so, but it's a southern thing, the longer I live down hear the worse it gets.

I really like your home theater, you had more than a few structural challenges to over come in your loft, but you did a Vary nice job in constructing a beautiful Home Theater.

Thanks again

Originally posted by Jim Noyd
If you have an HD cable or DSS box, have it upscale the SD channels to 720p. You'll bypass the 7700's internal deinterlacer.

I have an HD DSS box (RCA DTC-210), but it only scales the HD output not the SD output...................... I think.

Originally posted by Bsims2719
I read some previous posts that the optics are not sealed. Has this been confirmed. The optics on the 6200 are sealed. Seems crazy to take a step backwards.Brent

Hi Brent,
the optics ARE sealed so don't worry. This has been confirmed by MikeSRC in the MT700 thread (the Toshiba is also made by BenQ and except probably (not confirmed) one PCB (printed circuit board) the two are identical). BTW most if not all DLP engines are sealed since a single dust particle can make a mirror get stuck, so if you don't seal it within a year your screen would be looking like a walked-over minefield.

Hi,

How is the scaling of 480/576 standard definition (ie DVD) on this pj ?

The Benq 8700's scaling isn't exactly great. I hope the new one has improved on this.




Regards

Hi Checklist,

Only too pleased to have helped. Thanks for the kind words regarding my loft theater too. It's still a compromise but it serves a purpose and like you, I enjoy this hobby as well as watching movies. :)

I can't see anything wrong with your English - sounds good to me. You should hear the Cockney slang we have over here in my neck of the woods - believe me, Southern talk is probably easier to understand. :)

Gary.

Hey guys would like to share some (old knowledge) after reading the BQ 7700 manual. The benq 7700 states it in ploys a Fix Optical CAT lens (Catadioptric) and has added an aperture in the lens optics.

I have used Fixed Aperture CAT's back in the BW days, (before wife) we used these fixed CAT's to boost contrast(in bright light) mostly in black and white film, on nude silhouette photography.

Never occurred to me that the higher contrast of these lens offered might work in a "projection system" in providing a higher contrast levels, just one of those things that make you go Hummmmmmmm!!!!!

I'll bet somwhere in the Benq design team was an old photographer that had his thinking cap on.

Just a thought.

The quoted CR of the 7700 is 2500:1, and normaly manufacturers figures aren't quoted for anything like calibrated or out of the box settings, so it'll be interesting to see what kind of CR this pj actually resolves.

Gary.

I wonder if Benq is using the CAT term loosely? I looked up the other lens design based off the previous post, and it does not look close to any of those designs.

I took some shots of the MT700 and it would seem that there is a fixed iris in there I was not aware of, this results in a Cat's eye appearance...

have a look:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/stayceejovi/pj057.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/stayceejovi/pj048.jpg


It seems they took some time to setup a factory preset iris setting to get the most out of the PJ, I do wish they allowed for a user setting, just for the tweaker in me...



TJ

My MT700 lens looks exactly the same so this iris thing or whatever it is, is NOT the senseye addition unless the MT700 has also the senseye thing which is not present in the menu's.

I think they're talking about lens and not senseye. Senseye is an internal processing routine and bits of circuits if I'm not mistaken - not a lens or iris.

Yes I was commenting on the Benq spec sheet stating it has a Fixed Cat lens, and upon investigation I found the Mt700 has some sort of iris, nothing to do with the Senseye deal...

I would like to know if the PE7700 has this same arrangement if someone can check>?


TJ

Hey TJ Looks the same to me. I do feel that the term CAT might be being used in a loose manner but I don't know for sure. A CAT lens uses mirrors to collect light and direct it into the optical lens path, a DPL by nature use mirrors to direct the image into the lens optical path, and since the lens are a sealed package I guess one could use the term Cat.

Sorry guys don’t mean to get to off track hear because no matter what BQ and TM use it sure WORKS GREAT.

Just a thought

I finally got the chance to compare head-to-head the 7700 to the 8700 and run it through some tests using AviaPro and the Accupel signal generator. I don't have time for a full report right now, but let me just say that I would swap my 8700 in a heart beat for this baby.

Kevin, if you get a chance, take a look at the differences between the 7.5 and 0 IRE settings with a 480p feed over component. With the MT700, the "USA" setting equates to 15 IRE black and "Japan" to 7.5 IRE. After reading the Projector Central review, it appears that the 7700's doing the same thing with the 7.5 and 0 IRE settings.

Also, I'd be interested in seeing what kind of lumen levels and CR you're getting with OpticOne to compre with my readings on the MT700.

Mike The 7700 in my oppinion is doing the same thing, I have had mine switched into Japan IRE 0 from day one because IT JUST LOOKS BETTER, and the detail just pops out in the in the shadows areas, and it still has nice blacks.

Just a quick comment on TzungILin's list above. While there are some good points in comparing the feature set of the H77 with the BenQ 8720, keep in mind that the 8720 is actually direct competition to the Darkchip 3 H79, not the H77. As a result you should find the 8720 when it ships to have very noticeably superior black level performance (less noticeable pixels, etc.
I just started reviewing Marantz's 12S4 last night, and was switching back and forth between it and my BenQ 8700+. The difference on dark levels is immediate and dramatic. As an added benefit, Darkchip 3 projectors seem to have less noticeable pixels, and since few of us sit so far back to make the pixel issue completely non-existant. But I digress. My thoughts line up with some others on this thread, a 7700 (and an iScan if you have the need), is likely a better value than the H77. The H79, which I will be reviewing week after next, on the other hand, is a step up product. Once the 8720 hits, we may see some serious price erosion as those two battle it out for the low end of the Darkchip 3 market, but until then, for most, I would recommend the 7700 for its price performance, or scrape up the big bucks for the H79, BenQ 8720, perhaps a Sim2 projector with Darkchip 3, etc.
The H77 is an excellent choice for the extra bucks (over the PE7700), if you have need for the lens shift, but if not, I do doubt its worth the extra $800 - $1200. Of course each of us has certain pet tech issues we want to solve.
BTW this isn't going to get any easier. It will mostly remain impossible to get demos of projectors like Optoma's H57, H77, or BenQ's 7700, since "local" (high priced) dealers, simply won't sell/demo the models that are so heavily discounted on the internet. -art

The good news is that for all but the real perfectionists among us, machines like the 7700 will simply exceed the expectations of most shoppers. At least that is the feedback that I'm hearing on my site.

-art

Art.............

For people like me who need a "good" de-interlacer for SDTV watching, which BenQ apparently decided to leave out.... wouldn't it be better to consider the Toshiba MT-700 with the Faroudja chip over the 7700/iScan combo?

Originally posted by presenter
Just a quick comment on TzungILin's list above. While there are some good points in comparing the feature set of the H77 with the BenQ 8720, keep in mind that the 8720 is actually direct competition to the Darkchip 3 H79, not the H77.

-art


Yes, PE8720 is a direct head-to-head competitor to H79.

That is why I wrote in my post that PE8720 is almost the same as H77 except for Darkchip3 and power lens shift. What I meant was that PE8720 also has 8-segment color wheel, 10-bit green processing, lens shift, power zoom/focus, Corsina lens high end features like the H77 does, which PE8700 is lacking.

Hence, H77 is a lot closer in features to PE8720 than PE8700+. Of course, Darkchip3 creates a difference in image quality.

I still see a difference in image quality between H77 and PE7700, PE7700 is bright and color is very accurate, but in terms of contrast ratio, black level, picture depth and color saturation, H77 throws an overall better image. Of course, everyone has different taste and opinion. For people who likes a bright image, PE7700 and SP7205 are two good choices, with PE7700 being more value.

Somehow I doubt that will ever see the 8720.

It's now only 4 month before CEDIA, and everyone who was going to come out with DC3 chip has done so many months ago.

BenQ did exactly the same thing last year with 8710 - only to never show up.

What is the point of announcing a product and never shipping it - I have no idea.

I agree that, from what I have read, the MT-700 is preferable, even though I am getting price quotes about the same for both projectors.

Originally posted by O'Henry
I agree that, from what I have read, the MT-700 is preferable, even though I am getting price quotes about the same for both projectors.

... well Benq has 3 yr warranty while Tosh has one year... does this have any concern with you ? ( especially when they cost the same.. )

the real diff tosh has over Benq is 1) DCDi 2) user adjustable gamma. For 1) if you use a good prog scan dvd player (say Denon 3910, Pio dv59avi) u won't use it even with the Tosh; 2) is more useful.

Abt Benq, It's still a mystery what SensEye does. And whether the noise level is really low. 26 vs 29 is quite substantial.

Originally posted by c722
2) is more useful.

Abt Benq, It's still a mystery what SensEye does. And whether the noise level is really low. 26 vs 29 is quite substantial.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread: All over the world - except US - the Tosh and the BenQ are marketed with the same specs! That is:
26 dB Eco / 29 dB Normal
2500:1 Contrast
Even gamma curve correction is also in the US specs (though it remains to be confirmed as a feature)

This leads me to believe that there some kind of agreement between Toshiba and BenQ that requires Toshiba to release higher figures for the biggest market (us).

I ordered my BenQ today and it should be here within the week (here the BenQ is $800 less than the Tosh).

Senseye is explained here:
Senseye (http://benq.us/senseye)

-Claus

Originally posted by c722
... well Benq has 3 yr warranty while Tosh has one year... does this have any concern with you ?
No, the Toshiba has a 2 year warranty (difference of one year). That's good enough for me, for the difference in price and getting the Faroudja. (If it breaks, I think it will in the first 2 years)

For 1) if you use a good prog scan dvd player (say Denon 3910, Pio dv59avi) u won't use it even with the Tosh
Well, I don't have a ~$1000 DVD player, not will I ever get one, certainly not to make up for the lack of deinterlacing in the projector that I spent a few hundred more $$$ on than its brother... :)


I agree that we need to know more about SensEye, but I would imagine others would've been able to tell some kind of obvious difference by now if it was truly something special.

Just my $0.02..

There are very good 200 buck dvd players with excellent progressive scan. Spending thousands on a projector and using a 35 dollar dvd player might not be the best plan.
Warren.

My question is, if the deinterlacer is tripped up by 3:2, is it performing as best it could on say a 1080 interlaced signal?

Are the shortcomings limited to film based interlaced signals or all interlaced conversions done by the projector's electronics...?

The Senseye has not yet been proven as an advantage yet, in fact it's implementation has peripherally reduced the quality of the included deinterlacer.

I am in the camp that if you have a 720p native projector, you should be feeding it a nice progressive source to work with , but that is not always the case, and which leads me to my first question in this post?

TJ

Originally posted by tehotaone
My question is, if the deinterlacer is tripped up by 3:2, is it performing as best it could on say a 1080 interlaced signal?

Are the shortcomings limited to film based interlaced signals or all interlaced conversions done by the projector's electronics...?

The Senseye has not yet been proven as an advantage yet, in fact it's implementation has peripherally reduced the quality of the included deinterlacer.

I am in the camp that if you have a 720p native projector, you should be feeding it a nice progressive source to work with , but that is not always the case, and which leads me to my first question in this post?

TJ 1080i will be input to the PJ at 60Hz with the conversion at the source.

No Warren............. probably not the best match.......

But what are you going to do with SDTV? (sorry I am addicted to the SciFi channel and until it goes HD I really "need" good de-interlacing)

Yes, of course in that situation you want the MT700. Best tool for the job. Of course again the iScan would come in handy.
Well, that isn't why I got the iScan HD+, but I end up using it for SDTV. The iScan is so nice, just plug anything into it and it all goes over the same single hdmi cable to the projector automatically. Very nice indeed. We watched Desperate Housewifes and Grey's Anatomy (or whatever that is) on it last night.
Warren.

I plan to send in most sources at 720p already. So if the BenQ does have overall better picture quality then I would find it modt beneficial to get it instead of the Toshiba. I also own a HD+ and will use it for SD sources from DirecTv. I have an Onkyo SP1000 so I am not sure yet if I will run that thru the Iscan (SP1000 does pretty good job of scaling alone) at 720p on its own. Anyway, if they are identical in picture quality then the Toshiba would be my choice. So is the Sense Eye feature good enough to be the deal breaker? I only have a week or so to decide. And I must admit, I am still stuck in the middle...

I think there is a direct comparison by two thorough people (Mike and Art) coming up - maybe next week. If you can sit tight you'll have a pretty damn definitive answer on what the differences between the MT700 and PE7700 are...

Thanks Jonnyozero3!

Originally posted by miltimj
No, the Toshiba has a 2 year warranty (difference of one year). That's good enough for me, for the difference in price and getting the Faroudja. (If it breaks, I think it will in the first 2 years)


u r of course right; just that I was suggesting when there is no price difference (that's what O'Henry said I think) , will the additional 1 yr warranty mean anything ? (For me, since I only feed 720p material through it, either through a IScan or a gd dvdp, the DCDi function is not so useful. In this case I value the warranty more. )

In any case it seems US is the only place to have this pricing difference. In europe Benq is cheaper, here the Benq is the same as the Tosh US price.

So if you were on a desert island and could only have one or the other, which would you have?

I'd pick the one with the built in satellite phone, joe.. :D

Has anyone tested the 7700 with an HTPC via dvi>HDMI cable? If yes, does it have any sync problems?

Originally posted by takisot
Has anyone tested the 7700 with an HTPC via dvi>HDMI cable? If yes, does it have any sync problems?

I'm going to pick mine up in a couple of hours - If everything goes well I can tell you in the evening (europe evening, that is :D )

-Claus

One thing I hope any head to head comparison tests is syncing at 48, 72 Hz, etc. As near as I can determine from the threads, the Tosh syncs, but displays at 60. It is not clear (to me) if the BenQ does the same thing, since I've read that the DCDi is where the conversion to 60 is taking place.
That may be an important difference for some users.

-Greg

Yes, I did test HTPC with dvi>HDMI. It will not sync at 48 or 72, just 50 and 60. I played with powerstrip timings at 48 to no avail, but not at 72, so it may sync there with some effort.
Warren.

Originally posted by gkanders
One thing I hope any head to head comparison tests is syncing at 48, 72 Hz, etc.
Why would you like the 48Hz or 72Hz syncing? The judder is far less then with the 8700, almost unnoticable.

Hey, just a quick install question. I am getting ready and it seems I will be mounting my PJ a few feet back from a sofet (since I-beam is in ceiling there). How many inches does the PJ need to clear it by? In other words, if the difference from the ceiling to the soface is 7 inches, should I get an extension column that extends 6-9 inches or 9-12 inches? I also will gain a 1 3/4 " from the Chief RPA U and 1 3/4" from the ceiling mount. So my main concern is getting the picture past the sofet without dropping the PJ down too far....Thanks!

All you need is the center of the lens just below 7" in your case.. a conservative placement would be to have the top of the projector (when upside down, so actually the bottom) at the same height as the soffit, because the lens will be below it. Then it's just some math: 7" - 1.75" - 1.75" = 3.5" extension column (at least)

Edit: I'm not saying I know how your mount works either... I'm just going off of the dimensions you gave in your previous post. Just wanted to point that out.

Thanks miltimj!

joerod,

I am about to have the exact same setup as you. I currently have a Chief RPA setup and I recently placed an order for the 700 and the universal mount (base only). When I set up my first projector I put the screen up first. Then, when I determined what height I needed I had the hardware store cut the pipe to fit. It worked perfectly. Also I believe the MT700 can be adjusted up/down +/- 15% so height may not be as critical as the horizontal position.

Does anyone know how far offset the lense is from center on this projector-I have not been able to find it in the literature?

SJK, there's no lens shift on the PE7700 or MT700... the center of the lens should align with the top of the screen. The +/- 15% the manual talks about is with the use of keystoning (none is ideal, the less the better).

I haven't seen a mention of the lens offset (from center of the projector) either, but from the pictures and dimensions, it seems around 4"... it may take someone carefully measuring their PJ to get this information (perhaps you when you receive it!)

The front of the projector is exactly 36cm wide.
The lensopening (not the lens itself but the opening in the case) starts at exactly 23 cm from the left and ends at 31 cm from the left. This is measured at the middle of the lens. One inch equals 2,54cm so unless i am mistaken the width of the projector is 14,1732283465 inches
the lensopening starts (from the left) at 9,05511811024 inches
and the lensopening ends at 12,2047244094 inches :D

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
Yes, I did test HTPC with dvi>HDMI. It will not sync at 48 or 72, just 50 and 60. I played with powerstrip timings at 48 to no avail, but not at 72, so it may sync there with some effort.
Warren.

Thanks for the reply.
Actually I tested it today with an HTPC and it behaves like 8700 sync-wise, except that it has LESS judder i.e. more fluid picture!
My first impressions? Two Thumbs Up! An improved 8700 at half its price!
Well done BenQ..

Originally posted by Kjelt
Why would you like the 48Hz or 72Hz syncing? The judder is far less then with the 8700, almost unnoticable.

Just academic really. I'm looking for advantages of the 7700 -vs- the Tosh 700.

Sounds like the Tosh is (in the US) is a little less.
7700 has Senseye, but nobody knows what that is.
7700 has a 3 yr -vs- 2 yr warranty.
700 has better reverse 3-2 pulldown (as the 7700 seems not to have it at all). And related, the overall quality of de-interlacing of DCDi.
I was just wondering if one or the other would be better with HTPC, and I was remembering that someone said the 700's DCDi likes to output at 60 hz. I was wondering if the sync was an advantage of the 7700. Sounds like probably not, as both seem to look good regardless.

I'm sure either would make me happy. I'd better get on that theater constuction and off of the forum!

Greg

Greetings, I'm going to try to demystify Senseye for everyone (wish me luck). I am having a powerpoint presentation posted to my website, from BenQ that goes into good depth as to what its supposed to do. Now, how that stacks up with DCDi, and other circuitry, is another story - they think theirs is the best solution, but wait and read. Then everyone can debate what it all means. I have a product manager contact there, so I might be able to get some other specific questions answered, but, I have to use my "connection" sparingly.

BTW this was originally an internal document, that they sent me. Lots of typos, boxed out stuff, etc. But 95% of the content is there and readable.

I will email back as soon as my webmaster gets it up, and figures out where he's putting it. Stay tuned. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow latest. -art

No 3:2 pull down :) wonder how these internet rumors get started. It clearly states in the manual that Benq's on proprietary system (Senseye) is handling this task. Now is that better than the tried and true DCDi, my guess is probably not, just different.

I'll let experts like Art decide on the fine points like that.

I think is funny how a lot of folks have got into such a nit pick about picture quality between the BQ7700(senseye) and theTM700 DCDi when in fact the difference would be so slight is would not be worth the argument.

I am new to FP but so far what I have seen from my own 2 eyes is there is far more DIFFERENCE in the picture quality of what SCREEN material you choose, than the difference in Senseye or DCDi.

I own the 7700 and would be proud to own the TM700 as well.

JMO

Hi guys!
Just need some help! How is the contrast/blacks on the 7700? I have a 4805 right now, is the blacks better?

Also I'm planning on using an 80 inch screen. Will this improve picture quality? Or should i use a bigger screen. I'm mostly concerned with contrast. Would the smaller image be too bright? thanks.

The 7700's contrast will definitely be better - inherently because of the HD2+ chip, but also because of some of the contrast enhancing technologies that have become popular (on machines like the Panasonic 700u, the PE7700, and others.

As to screen size, vs brightness - personal taste. Let's just say that in a dark room, you'll have plenty of horsepower. You can always dim the lamp down however...

I run my 8700+ on a 140" screen right now (waiting for a new Firehawk at 128",) and I am a bit underpowered for my taste, but pretty sure the 128" and 1.3 gain will make me happy. If you've got room, and seating where you want it (not too close...), then you certainly can go for a 92, 100, 106 or 110" without any real concern (dark room).
I think within that range of screen sizes, (and surfaces), it will come down to where you like to sit in a theater - are you an up close person, half way back, etc.
Since you already have a 4805, you should know what pleases you. Remember the pixels will be about as visible on the 7700 as they are on the 4805 - if you sit half the distance to the screen when watching the 7700.

YOu can always (as some folks do) get the projector - shine on the wall, and figure out what size is ideal for your purposes.

And if you are really adverse to the amount of gray where there should be black, you can always choose a High contrast gray surface - that might be your ticket if you go 80 - 92 inches.

The fun part, is that the 7700 is so far beyond the 4805 you will almost certainly love any combination you decide on. Have fun! -art

I just purchased a 7700. My room is pretty dark. dark walls and ceiling. I plan to shoot on a stewart 100 screen. My question is what material to get. I am currently thinking GreyHawk RS. The other options I am considersing are FireHawk and Studiotek 130.

Can anyone tell me the pro and cons of the different screen type ?

sog35 - I've watched my old 4805 and my MT700 (OEM of the 7700) side by side. Contrast and black level are nearly identical to my eye. For me the MT700 is essentially a higher resolution 4805. This is not a knock on the MT700 - the 4805 is that good.

For another opinion, see MikeSRC's thread on the MT700 vs. 4805 comparison.

I'm using mine on a 70" wide screen and use a Hoya HMC ND2 filter to lower the brightness along with black level. With this combo I get a color for black that my mind at least considers to be "black" (it's really a dark, dark grey of course, like any DLP I've seen on a white screen).

What screen do you have FlyingGimp? 70" Wow, that is half what I am shooting. No wonder the filter.
I am using temporary blackout cloth but I am ready to order a screen now. I am planning a 133" pulldown, I just haven't decided what material yet. I only use it at night with no lights, so thought I was good, but this projector is so bright it lights up the whole room, which in turn lights up the screen, so I assume I need a high constrast screen.
Warren.

I hope to use a shelf to mount the 7700. I was hoping to turn the unit upside down and use stick-on rubber feet. Ill put the screen where the image lands.

The top of the shelf is around 7 feet, thats why I wanted a zero offset PJ. The front is a little less than 13 feet from the far wall, so I should be able to use a 100 inch screen the biggest I can fit on the wall because of obstacles.

Has anyone done this. Could I damage the unit setting it upside down with rubber feet. The shelf already exists and would be hard to move, but is there another way to put this PJ on top of a shelf that would be better. The ceiling is vaulted and high so thats kinda out.

I think the rubber feet would be just fine, it vents in the front and has a side air intake.

I've used a similar set-up with my BenQ 8700 for the last 18 months, and it works great.

With so many people installing projectors on a ceiling, you think they would provide screw holes on the top so you could remove the nice, adjustable rubber legs on the bottom, screw them in the top, and flip the projector over for an easy ceiling installation..

Originally posted by presenter
The 7700's contrast will definitely be better - inherently because of the HD2+ chip...
The 4805 uses the HD2+ pixel (i.e. darkchip2, 12 degree tilt), so I wouldn't think the 7700's chip would offer any better contrast performance...

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
What screen do you have FlyingGimp?

A $12 white Do-able board (looks identical to a sample Da-lite MW). I am considering a gray screen at some point.

Originally posted by Kevin R. Anderson
With so many people installing projectors on a ceiling, you think they would provide screw holes on the top so you could remove the nice, adjustable rubber legs on the bottom, screw them in the top, and flip the projector over for an easy ceiling installation..

yea gd design idea. better still, a "reverseable" top/bottom so either side can be top.. :)

okay I received my benq last week. Finally I can post some impressions as a 1st hand user :D (all through a pio dv59avi HDMI 720p)

gd points:
1) the colors out of the box are very gd. And yes now I understand what the other review said abt "sunny disposition".
2) It's bright. Economy mode has no problem filling a 133" diag 1.1 gain screen. I am the type that like lumens so this is great for me.
3) home theater mode is a bit special. yes an overall higher gamma, but it's definitely not a flat level. I have a feeling it's changing according to scene. Is this SensEye thing ? I dun know. I defitely prefer this over the cinema mode.
4) Contrast is just like the IF7205.

bad points:
1) noise level is not what I expected. I think it's more like 29db. It's quiet, but I dun think it's 26db. Big minus point.
2) The unit I have has some light leakage in the front. (Strange the one I saw in the dealer rm has no leakage, and is also quieter. Must be QC problem).

Overall I'm very happy. For the price I paid, I dun think I can find any PJ that's better in PQ.

btw it doesn't do real 48/72hz. Of course I wish it can, but given this price, I think this will be asking too much. Also the black level dithering, it's abt the same as the old 6 segment DLPs, not better not worse.

Originally posted by stlman
I just purchased a 7700. My room is pretty dark. dark walls and ceiling. I plan to shoot on a stewart 100 screen. My question is what material to get. I am currently thinking GreyHawk RS. The other options I am considersing are FireHawk and Studiotek 130.

Can anyone tell me the pro and cons of the different screen type ?

Stlman... if your room is darkened and sounds like you have very little ambient light I would go with the Studiotek 130... the only benefit of the firehawk and the greyhawk RS will be the with the grey allowing for more ambient light in the room with lessor detriment with the ambient light.

Robert

Does anyone know what size screw fits the ceiling mount holes. ?

Originally posted by stlman
Does anyone know what size screw fits the ceiling mount holes. ?

On my european-bought model it's 6.0 mm screws that fits. I dunno if the models sold in the US are the same!

-Claus

Does anyone have a link that provides me a user manual for BenQ 7700?

I've been trying without success to get the manual from BenQ. I understand they will post a PDF version on the website when it is available. I can tell you that the current manual is not particularly helpful in explaining the PE7700 features.

I've ordered a PE7700 as a demo for my home theater business and will be happy to look up anything for you when I get it.

I'm also trying to get my hands on a service manual, but one does not presently appear to exist.

Hav det godt.

Originally posted by Beeblebrox_dk
On my european-bought model it's 6.0 mm screws that fits. I dunno if the models sold in the US are the same!

-Claus

The U.S. MT700s use 6 mm so I'm sure the 7700 is the same.

I did this 4 weeks back, i used 12-24 or 12-32 (3 inch machine screw from home depot). not a common screw, good luck finding it. I created my own celing mount using plexi glass.(as described in mounts DIY projects).

Kevin.........

Please give me a call or drop me a note when you get the 7700 in.

I would like to see it next to the 8700+.

thanks,

Steve

Originally posted by rana1224
I did this 4 weeks back, i used 12-24 or 12-32 (3 inch machine screw from home depot). not a common screw, good luck finding it. I created my own celing mount using plexi glass.(as described in mounts DIY projects).

Could you post a link to the forum, please? I can't find it out there... :(

-Claus

Originally posted by presenter
The 7700's contrast will definitely be better - inherently because of the HD2+ chip, but also because of some of the contrast enhancing technologies that have become popular (on machines like the Panasonic 700u, the PE7700, and others.


Hm.. the contrast enhancing technology that you speak of is usually two fold - an iris, i.e. a mechanical device that can constrict light output to lower the black levels and increase overall contrast, along with an electronic component that adjusts gamma based on the scene to give the impression that dark scenes have more contrast than a projector without this firmware controlled gamma technology.

Does the 7700 have an iris?

Also, doesn't the 4805 also use a chip capable of the same raw contrast levels (without the tricks) as the 7700? Even just the dynamic gamma should give the 7700 an edge in certain dark scenes, but to get similar black levels you'd probably have to dim a bright projector like the 7700 a bit, I would think?

Check these pics out.

www.shankula.net

I just finished my HT room and I used the Benq 7700. My only complaint is that I would have liked a motorized zoom and focus. It's a hassle setting the zoom when you want to shink it down for 4:3 pictures or 1.85 formatted movies.

The brightness, contract is great. It really looks like I am at a theater. The thing that is I noticed is that I quickly stopped watching the screen/projector and was able to forget about equipment and get into the movies.

Jeepers Randy, nice audio system. The projector must be the cheapest thing you got. Might as well have went for the Optima H79. It has the power zoom and focus.

Sethk The Bq has a fix iris in the lens. I have seen both units and yes the black on the PE7700 might have a slight better black (I did say might) it would take a side by side to judge it because it vary slight.

The fixed iris and the higher res chip will be perceived to the human eye as a more contrast image. An iris will improve sharpness and contrast, but the trick is not to make the image so sharp (small iris) as to induce Screen door or pixilation, it a fine line indeed.

I wish a PJ would offer an adjustable iris (not auto)so the end user could adjust a fixed iris setting, controlling the sharpness/perceived contrast for the room size, seating arrangement and what type of light controlled environment one has.

The trend however is to make everthing automatic or non adjustable so my WISH will probably not be realized.

brainsalad... :) those two words sound good together..

I love the pics of your room ... great colors... like the wiring arrangement..
I would tuck those wires into a raceway to the projector and paint the raceway black.. like the two columns you did with what looks like standard trim..very rich looking... your sound system and the room dynamics look very well thought out... home theater is for audio and video and either should be able to put the small hairs on the back of the neck up on end so I disagree with wneilsenbb.. the two are not mutually exclusive.. I have sat through many movies where the only aspect of the movie that was engaging was the audio soundtrack... I have countless cds that I can't listen to or do absolutely nothing for me on anything but my audio setup... but through the proper audio gear is capable of stirring emotion.

Great job ... Should have many hours of enjoyment. I like the frame you did up on the screen as well btw..

Robert

brainsalad nice job on the HT, do your neighbors foundations crack if you turn up the audio. :D

brainsalad:

nice setup. I noticed you have the denon 2910 dvd player connected to the Benq. Any issues in picture quality, like macroblocs?

Regards,

J. Rosado

Mandarax - thanks for the suggestions.

I have more work to do in the room. I think of my HT room as a journey, not a destination. I live for the tweaks, tunings, and decorating. I agree with the fact that HT and audio are not mutually exclusive. I love listening to music on the Soundlab ESL's and just like with CD's, some movies have great sound tracks, others leave much to be desired.

One of the concepts I learned long ago is that LOTS of headroom makes for a very effortless sound and while some people consider what I have done as overkill, listening to effortless, tight, and well defined bass will raise the hairs on your neck.

As far as the picture quality on 2910 -> 7700 and macroblocs. Pardon my ignorance, but what is a macrobloc?

Hi:

can anyone else explain what is the macroblocking problem and point to a thread explaining it? (i can't find the thread about it :( )

Regards,

J. Rosado

Look at the photos on these links --

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5638931#post5638931

Here are two photos -- the first is no macroblocking and the second shows the macroblocking artifact.

http://avforum.no/forum/download.php?id=6205

http://avforum.no/forum/download.php?id=6206

Macroblocking ... Appears on some dvds as an mpeg compression artifact..

Visually looks like moving or off color blocks and is most noticeable in scenes of solid backgrouds,, horizons, water, floors, walls, fog, fade in and out scenes.. Some players and projectors/displays that use the 2300 series faroudja chip actually seem to accentuates the artifact. Usually a proper calibration can completely diminish the issue to a non issue.

Robert

Dumb question. I've read from you folks that this PJ has to be mounted perfectly horizontaly (ceiling mount in my case). What is the keystroke correction for then, side-to-side adjustment? Can I not angle it down and keystroke adjust it with spec?

Zilla, first of all, just for clarification, it's called "keystone adjustment", since it corrects the screen's trapezoidal shape when angled down or up (like a keystone is shaped).

Anyway, keystone correction corrects vertical offset, but not horizontal. You need to have the center of the lens at exactly the center (horizontally) of your screen.

Duh, yes I meant keystone, and yes I do plan to center my lense at exactly the center of my screen. So for a 58" wide screen (120" diag), the center of my lense will intersect it at 29" correct? (Did I do that math right? :)

So can I then angle the PJ down (front side is lower than rear side) and let keystone adjustment do it's job within spec? Thanks!

Use of the keystone adjustment should only be used as an interim solution before a permanent installation can be accomplished that sets the lens at the proper height in relation to the screen.

This is because the keystone adjustment will create moire artifacts in the image.

58" wide doesn't end up as a 120" diagonal image, unless you're planning on watching sideways.. :)

As Kevin said, it's ideal not use keystone at all. Of course, ideal is not always an option for everyone. Minimize it if possible.

Duh, again on my part - it's been a looooonnnngggg day.

Yes it's a 58"x104" 16:9 screen, making it 104" wide :).

But keystone adjustment fixes what I described the second try correct? I don't plan to use it, I was just educationg myself.

Zilla,

Assuming I'm reading your question right, yes. Keystone adjustments corrects for the (hopefully slight) trapezoidal shape that you get from the projector pointing slightly up or slightly down instead of exactly level toward your screen.

To clarify, this projector would be mounted so the center of the lens is exactly even with the top edge of your screen, 52 inches from each side.

Speaking of screens (pff topic of course), my 120.5 inch 16:9 Vutec XWF Silverstar came today. I am very lucky, one more inch bigger either way and it would not have fitted going down into my basement. Perfect call gentlemen! Anyway, it came in a huge crate, I can't wait to fire up a PJ on it. Which reminds me, I still need to go get my PE7700. Does anyone know of any good places to get one (PM me)? Unless there is some other PJ out there, I need to do you know what or get off the pot! I am out of time and still haven't picked the PJ yet. My gut says go with the BenQ...Has anyone else had any HDMI issues? Joe I am getting ready to go see the new Star Wars (my brother scored some tickets)...Have a good nite everyone...

Yes, it fixes the trapezoidal issue Zilla..... but what Kevin and Tim are trying to convey is that it degrades the image so much that most people do everything possible to avoid using Keystone adjustment...

Also the 7700 does not have any "lens offset" so the center of the lens needs to be aligned with the exact center of the horizontal image and exactly even with what will be the top of your image (with ceiling mount). Sort of like the exact point where the horizontal and vertical lines come together to form a "T."

projectorcentral points out that keystone correction on this projector is excellent. I played with it myself and agree. If you sit with your eyes below the center of the screen you are going to have natural keystoning that would be corrected by having the projector pointing down a bit. Because we are used to dealing with the natural keystoning it isn't really bad to not even adjust the keystone control. Just make sure the edge of your image is blocked by your screens borders.
My temporary table setup I have the screen set for 2.35 matrial (so the black bar is below the screen.) The lens of the projector is the height of the bottom of the black bar. The screen is about one foot above that. So for SD or 16x9 material I point the projector up so the bottom is one foot further up. With a 15 foot throw distance it would be simple math to figure that degree of angle. I am not good at simple math however so don't know the figure. Anyway I am quite happy with that image un-keystone corrected.
Warren.

Joerod, I got mine from our hosts; avscience. Jason Turk jason@avscience.com was very helpful for me and got me a better price than I could find elsewhere.

Warren.

Any recomms for a ceiling mount that can extend the PJ up 12" from the ceiling that does NOT cost an arm and a leg?

I am using a generic ceiling mount that places my 7700 about 1' above the top of the screen and I am getting a slight keystone effect. The only way I really notice it is on the edges of the screen and not in the picture itself. When I adjust the keystone, I only need to set it to 2. The edges of the picture look straight and I am not able to detect any degredation of the picture but then I am 53 years old and my eye sight is not anywhere as good as you younger guys.

Greetings all, The NEWS you've been asking for for 3 months:

The BenQ PE7700 vs Toshiba MT700.

I was finally able to get together with MikeSRC. Mike brought his MT700 over to projectorsolution.com's demo room where my old double wide 16:9 screen is mounted. We were able to put the same image up on both the BenQ and Toshiba, simultaneously.

We fed it 480i and 480p from a Sanyo DVD player, and also 1080i from my D-VHS deck.

We ran AVIA pro test suite on them (part of it), and also Faroudja's.

Summary - the projectors
1. Have the same lens (at least we could find no visible difference in the element mounting, by visually viewing it.

2. They must have the same circuitry inside. The Toshiba claims Faroudja (we believe them or Farjoudja would be sueing their asses off.
We could not find one visible/measureable difference on any test we threw at them. Even on the Faroudja disk, which legend has it always makes Faroudja based machines test better, the results were identical on every test we tried.

3. They both have 3:2 pulldown

4. Color balance out of the box were slightly different as were the preset modes, however the differences were extremely minor, and any basic calibration should make them look the same.

So WHICH ONE TO BUY?

That's your call. Typically the BenQ sells for about $200 more, but has these advantages (but none in actual image quality).

The BenQ comes with a 3 year warranty, and Benq will replace your unit immediately with their replacement program during the entire first year.

BenQ's direct dealers will (replace an initially defective unit during the first 30 days after purchase. (this according to BenQ and one dealer I am familiar with.

The Toshiba - per Mike (confirm please), has only a 2 year warranty, and if the unit is initially defective, it gets overnighted to Toshbia for repair and returned, not replaced with another projector. They do not have a replacement program.

Now from my standpoint an extra year warranty is well worth the $200, because if you do have a real problem in year three that could easily cost you $1000 or more.

Look for more info on my site, later this weekend. Thanks all.

Well, that should put the speculation to rest.

BTW their was one menu item difference and Mike and I both agreed it was a feature RBB gamma that you wouldn't use when calibrating.

Good shopping!

Nice job presenter, but one quick question, the Sense Eye in Benq's Theater mode did not make a difference in pic quality? That is my main reason for leaning towards the BenQ...That and my Wife likes the way it looks...

I started a separate thread on the comparison here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=541843). Art, maybe you could copy your thoughts on it as well.

I did not see anything contributed by Senseye that could not be matched by adjustment/calibration. Also, to clarify what Art said above, the RGB gamma adjustment is valuable for a professional calibration, but has less use for the average user.

I think we both believe that the 7700 is also using the Faroudja chip, but just not advertising it (ala Panasonic with their DVD players).

Idon't know if the non-US models are different somehow, but based on previous comments by others, they may be.

Originally posted by joerod
Nice job presenter, but one quick question, the Sense Eye in Benq's Theater mode did not make a difference in pic quality? That is my main reason for leaning towards the BenQ...That and my Wife likes the way it looks...

Greetings,

I suspect that SensEye, is simply Faroudja's full suite of processing. As I stated and Mike confirms, we could find not a single difference in all the testing (480i, 480p, 1080i), so whatever circuitry enhances contrast, or reduces motion artifacts, it baxically has to be the same on both projectors.

That said, yes, the few people who walked into the room while we were "playing" all pretty much prefer the look of the Benq. It does have more style.

But the warranty is worth the price difference. Also if I had a brand new unit, that came with a problem, I would want a new machine and not go through the hassle of having it fixed, possibly delaying my installation, or at least my enjoyment.

I'd have to disagree with the "BenQ has more style" comment, Art. I think it's just the opposite as the Toshiba has a cleaner look and smoother lines. In the end, there really isn't much difference between the two though and certainly not enough to sway your decision one way or the other. Even my wife doesn't care how it looks as long as the picture looks good. :D

As someone not selling either projector, I vote for the Toshiba in the style department. In fact, I find it doubtful any impartial party would prefer the BenQ's case.

Hey, I'm just glad there's no purple stripe. :D

Ok, OK, Mike's right - BenQ's decision not to use purple (like my 8700+) is a good thing.

As to which one people like, gee I guess we can start a new thread, or vote, or something.

With the lights out you can't see them anyway. -art

Originally posted by presenter
I suspect that SensEye, is simply Faroudja's full suite of processing. As I stated and Mike confirms, we could find not a single difference in all the testing (480i, 480p, 1080i), so whatever circuitry enhances contrast, or reduces motion artifacts, it baxically has to be the same on both projectors.

So any theories on the now infamous "100x as many stars" observation?

Originally posted by stanger89
So any theories on the now infamous "100x as many stars" observation?

Absolutely, but I didn't know it was Infamous. The comparison was between the 8700+ and the 7700. In this case, the 8700+ had some pixelworks processing, etc. The 7700 has different electronics and is an improved performer. Remember, the 8700/8700+ hit the streets about 15 months before the 7700. You have to expect some improvement.

Even as Mike and I played with the BenQ and Toshiba, different things we did also affected the star scene, so that some setups showed far more stars than others, but that would be expected.

The point was, that I had been unable to adjust my 8700+ to produce anywhere as many stars as the most the 7700 could do. And while I could see artifacts around most of the stars on the 7700 and MT700 (Mike should be able to confirm that), there still were a lot of them being dug out of the "blacks".

So anyway, the bottom line, the 7700 puts a lot more stars out there than the older 8700+, as the image on my review site showed.

That help? -art

I've received a link for the online user manual.
Interesting reading for those of us who are considering or waiting for the BenQ 7700.
http://www.benq.us/ServiceAndSupport/Manuals/manuals.cfm?product=761

I totally forgot where I saw that review, only just now remembered it was you :eek:

Absolutely, but I didn't know it was Infamous. The comparison was between the 8700+ and the 7700. In this case, the 8700+ had some pixelworks processing, etc. The 7700 has different electronics and is an improved performer. Remember, the 8700/8700+ hit the streets about 15 months before the 7700. You have to expect some improvement.

Even as Mike and I played with the BenQ and Toshiba, different things we did also affected the star scene, so that some setups showed far more stars than others, but that would be expected.

The point was, that I had been unable to adjust my 8700+ to produce anywhere as many stars as the most the 7700 could do. And while I could see artifacts around most of the stars on the 7700 and MT700 (Mike should be able to confirm that), there still were a lot of them being dug out of the "blacks".

So anyway, the bottom line, the 7700 puts a lot more stars out there than the older 8700+, as the image on my review site showed.

That help? -art

Very much so, thanky you. After the last few comments, a 7700 may well be in my future.

One more question and I know it's very hard to answer. And if it's OT I appologize. But one of the biggest things holding me back from making an order is the DLP artifacts, mostly the reports of it causing sickness in an (I understand a small percentage) of people. My question is, is that something you'd notice right away, or only after several hours? I've never been bothered by DLPs, but have never spent a great deal of time with them, no more than 15-20 minutes here and there.

One more question and I know it's very hard to answer. And if it's OT I appologize. But one of the biggest things holding me back from making an order is the DLP artifacts, mostly the reports of it causing sickness in an (I understand a small percentage) of people. My question is, is that something you'd notice right away, or only after several hours? I've never been bothered by DLPs, but have never spent a great deal of time with them, no more than 15-20 minutes here and there.

Greetings,

Most of the issues relating to rainbow effect and DLP color filter speed, relate to the business projectors with their typically much slower color filter wheels (most are 2x speed, and 4 segment. Today's HT projectors are mostly 5x or 6x and have from 6 to 8 filters. Thus, the rainbow effect affects an incredibly tiny percentage of the population, with these machines.

That said, I worked with a person a while back who got headaches after 15-20 minutes when in presentations with business DLP projectors. But that's the only person I've met.

Even with the faster HT DLP projectors a small percentage (probably well less than 5%) will be able to detect the rainbow effect. However, last year, for example, a well known reviewer at Stereophile magazine, commented in a review about DLP projectors that he felt fatigued after watching an entire movie on DLP home theater projectors.

On the other hand, in speaking with my local high volume dealer, who sells far more than 100 home theater projectors a month (over half DLP - mostly BenQ, Optoma, InFocus, Marantz, Digital Projection, etc.) that they cannot recall anyone returning a DLP HOME THEATER PROJECTOR in recent times - because of these issues (and they have sold more than a thousand DLP HT units. (They have had people return business projectors for that reason, but rarely).

As a result, I would say its a non-issue.

One more point. Because of the wheel, high speed motion creates artifacts such as bluring of lines (this is visible on some HT test programs provided on the Avia Pro calibration disk and others). And I have heard it said that this does bother some (again very small number of) people, but I'm not sure whether it is a problem, or just one more imperfection in the pursuit of the perfect image. I can detect a touch of rainbow when moving my head/blinking quicky on today's HT projectors, so I'm not completely immune, (I never notice it normally) but would say to you that it shouldn't be an issue for you.

Many of the custom installer companies and online resellers (like the one I work with) will work with you. It's not uncommon for them to allow you a full refund or no penalty upgrade, if you return a projector with 5 hours or less on the lamp.

Given that, if you are concerned, when you get your projector, immediately set it up (before you install it - throw in a DVD, and watch it all the way through. If you have no issues. Bingo! Your all set. -art

Thanks again Art, that's kind of what I thought the situation was.

Greetings,

I suspect that SensEye, is simply Faroudja's full suite of processing. As I stated and Mike confirms, we could find not a single difference in all the testing (480i, 480p, 1080i), so whatever circuitry enhances contrast, or reduces motion artifacts, it baxically has to be the same on both projectors.

That said, yes, the few people who walked into the room while we were "playing" all pretty much prefer the look of the Benq. It does have more style.

But the warranty is worth the price difference. Also if I had a brand new unit, that came with a problem, I would want a new machine and not go through the hassle of having it fixed, possibly delaying my installation, or at least my enjoyment.

I thought I read somewhere recently that if the customer sent in a unit for warranty work that the unit would be replaced with one from the BenQ "pool".
1. Is this true if a new unit arrives "dead on arrival"?
2. If a unit is sent in for warranty work that has 25 hours on the bulb, might he receive a replacement unit from the "pool " with 500 hours on it?

I don't know about BenQ, but many brands ask you to remove your lamp and send in the unit. Then you receive another unit without a lamp.

Well, again, thanks to all of you for your reviews and comments. I had decided that I was not going to wait for the 7700 to become available even though the extra year was there. I bought the unit via Mike and even though I had a problem with the "stuck mirror" and even though Toshiba repaired and did not replace the unit, I am very pleased with it. Nice to see that there are no perfomance differences per se.

When I'm ready to upgrade to DC3 (or whatever is the rage in two years), I'll be looking for you, Mike. :)

Thanks,
charlie

Funny, the manual for the BenQ PE7700 even looked liked the Toshiba TDP-MT700.

Bought myself a Bday present I know I couldnt ask anyone to buy for me, PE7700. Ordered today hope to see it early next week. First projector, setting it up in a basement HT with about a 11' throw and viewing distance. Has anyone compared the HDMI input for PC to the svga/bnc adapter that comes shipped with the unit for image quality? I'll be about 50% movies/50% games (PC, PS2) with this in a totally controlled lighting room. The HTPC is a AMD 3800+ and GF6800Ultra so I hope to have some awesome big screen gaming. I'll make a screen decision after viewing it a while on the wall to get an idea how big the family likes it. Once its done I'll post pix and a review if folks are interested.

Heh, I'm about to do the exact same thing, Engine... my birthday is on Memorial Day this year, and in addition to a day off from work, I'm going to get this projector as well... (changed my mind from the MT700 due to Art and Mike's comparison, the additional year warranty, and I like the look of the BenQ better).

Milt I am right behind you as well. I am placing the order this week. My basement is getting closer and closer and it is time...I can't imagine many other PJs being much better especially in this price range. I should post how my basement is coming out...More on that later....To say the least I am very excited at how it is coming out!

I thought I read somewhere recently that if the customer sent in a unit for warranty work that the unit would be replaced with one from the BenQ "pool".
1. Is this true if a new unit arrives "dead on arrival"?
2. If a unit is sent in for warranty work that has 25 hours on the bulb, might he receive a replacement unit from the "pool " with 500 hours on it?

Greetings,

BenQ does replace the unit during the first year. I don't think they ask you to pull the lamp, but I'm not sure (I know Epson's warranty replacement program does.)

However the dealer I work with will replace a DOA with a brand new unit during the first 30 days; www.projectorsolution.com (one of the AVS Alliance members). -art

a

Hey, anyone?

What happened to PM (private messaging)? Is it there or am I just blind. Or perhaps have our hosts pulled it, assuming we are talking privately about pricing info and recommendations about other dealers? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon12.gif
Wink -art.

just click on the poster's name you want to PM and the pulldown will display the send PM link.

Has anyone tried to play BENQ 7700 with a HTPC (DVI - HDMI 720p 50 Hz) ?. Last night i saw the Benq7700 in a friendly home but we couldn't lock the signal in 1280x720 50 Hz via powerstrip (i live in Greece-Europe), and we REALLY need 50 Hz. Can anyone confirm this ?

If you are looking at the 7700 face on, with the lens pointing at you, which sides do the air get expelled/ taken in?

And what has anyone thought of gaming on the 7700 so far?

According to the manual, there are two intakes in the rear and two exhaust vents at the front.

ok thanks

The intake's actually on the left side of the projector (lens side) and there are two fans that exhaust out the front.

Mike and Presenter.... I have read your review between the Benq and the Toshiba.... Very nice review and thanks for the effort. I was wondering how the third lesser heard of PJ in this rough price category fits in..... The Sharp Z2000. I have read some good and some bad news (kinda like most PJ reviews). Was wondering how it holds up to the other two?

Engine, my vga/bnc adapter didn't work at all. The dvi - hdmi is obviously far better since it doesn't convert digital to analog and back again.

The 7700 will not do 50 hz. It seems the MT700 can.

The sharp z2000 is a fair bit more, and only has a 1 year warrenty. It compared well to the 8700, but the 7700 is apparently quite superior to the 8700, so it might be hard to justify the extra price of the z2000.
Warren.

man, If this projector would only have a longer throw. I need a 110" diagonal screen at 16 feet back - looks like this proj will only go back 14.3' to give a 110" screen - BUMMER

I was planning a 110" screen at 14 foot, but this thing looks so good I am going up to a 133" screen, just cause I can't get a 144", which is where it really looks best. Unless you have some good reason for a screen that small.
Warren.

Art - The PM link is in the subject bar, just below the "Alliance Member" Ads (& just above the thread listings).

It's hidden in plain sight:D.

Sorry I couldn't see you & Mike - I would have loved to have seen the comparison. Thanks to both of you for the info.

The 7700 will not do 50 hz. It seems the MT700 can.

... hmmm .. I think mine does. It's through a pio 59avi though. I put a PAL disc and it syncs at 1280x720@50Hz.

Have you tried to connect 7700 via hdmi with htpc in 50 Hz?
Why do you say that it can't sync in 50 (is it in the manual?).

I sincerely hope it syncs with 50hz, otherwise it's DOA in Europe in my opinion

Benq PE7700 does sync 50Hz via hdmi. It shows 720p50 in lower right corner, when I switch my Nvidia 6600GT to 1280x720@50Hz

Regards

Dom

Could someone post the dimensions of the mounting holes on the PE7700?

I'm trying to plan ahead so I can retrofit my old Infocus mount with a new plate.
I believe I read that the holes are 6mm, has anyone had any luck finding suitable screws at Home Depot or Lowes?

I have the same question as Matt.. I'm looking to make a mount for it and hope to get some done ahead of time.

The pattern's not square, so it's a little difficult to dimension it. I got 6 mm bolts at Lowes, but then got longer ones later at Ace Hardware, where there's a larger selection.

What screen do you guys recommend for use with the PE7700?

Greetings Todd_zilla

If you are running 100" or more diagonal, I'd go for a high contrast white like the Firehawk. I'd go high contrast gray for under 100", as the smaller the screen, the grayer the blacks. (Actually 100" would be the "go either way" size.

Also though, I believe (not sure) that the Firehawk will do better rejecting side ambient light, but that is a guess.

If you go very large (say 120"+) and your viewing angle is narrow, some might suggest a high gain screen like the Studiotek. (these are all Stewart brand screens, which are premium priced. Dalite and other offer "not quite as good" but similar screens for less.

(To give you an idea, Dalite's high contrast white has a gain of 1.1 vs 1.3 for the Firehawk, etc).

I myself am replacing my old 140" dalite matte white, with a 128" motorized Firehawk, which arrived yesterday and is going up next monday. (I am excited!) -art

There is another review you can give us Art. :)
So, what are you doing with the 140?"
Warren.

Greetings Todd_zilla

If you are running 100" or more diagonal, I'd go for a high contrast white like the Firehawk. I'd go high contrast gray for under 100", as the smaller the screen, the grayer the blacks. (Actually 100" would be the "go either way" size.



Art - are there (roughly) equivalent materials for the Da-Lite screens? I'm planning a 7700/MT700 PJ with a 133" screen and have been struggling to find useful info for screen selection. I posted an inquiry in the screen forum, but I don't think there is much traffic there. At this point, I'm considering a Da-Lite "perm-wall".

Basically, I'm planning a 133" screen at 15' throw in a 16 x 20 room with good light control. There are, however, eggshell cottage white walls and ceiling which I understand could affect the equation. Thanks for any advice you may be able to provide.

With DaLite, I would either go with the High Contrast Cinema Vision or High Contrast Matte White. Both have a 1.1 gain.

Thanks for the info Mike. I was looking at the Da-Lite cinema-vision just last night, and it sounded like it might be a good fit.

Art - are there (roughly) equivalent materials for the Da-Lite screens? I'm planning a 7700/MT700 PJ with a 133" screen and have been struggling to find useful info for screen selection. I posted an inquiry in the screen forum, but I don't think there is much traffic there. At this point, I'm considering a Da-Lite "perm-wall".

Basically, I'm planning a 133" screen at 15' throw in a 16 x 20 room with good light control. There are, however, eggshell cottage white walls and ceiling which I understand could affect the equation. Thanks for any advice you may be able to provide.

Greetings Jack?

That's a big screen - my 140 is very marginal with a matte surface, and "off white walls". the 7700 has an extra 100 lumens but that sure isn't much, and the contrast enhancement stuff does more for bringing out low level detail than dynamicing up the brightness. I expect my new 128 Firehawk, which is high contrast (hc) and has a agin of 1.3, will buy me about 40% more ft candles than the old screen. But I'm also taking my walls to a dark rust color, which probably will elmiinate about 90% of the reflected light.

Based on my experience, you will definitely want a high contrast "white screen". In the Da-lite lineup, you'll want to consider either the Cinema Vision, or the HC Cinema Vision. or the HC Matte white. Problem is - I can't keep them straight as to which is availlable on fixed screens, which on motorized, etc.

Anyway, I would think first, the HC Cinema Vision (assuming you are sittting within the left and right edges of the screen. You get slight gain, slight rejection of off angle ambient light (walls - in your case), and a gain of 1.1. You can use all of the above. (If you can darken your walls - 30% of the theater experience is that you are only aware of the big screen, the rest of the theater basically appears black, or close enough you dont notice them.

The straight Cinema vision will do even better in terms of rejecting ambient light, and giving your image more overall brightness. The BenQ 7700 has really good contrast and on a standard 133" the dark gray that "blacks" create should be "black enough" to skip the HC version The extra gain might help you.

However if I had to guess, I'd pick the HC Cinema Vision. The last two on your list from dailite would be the HC Matte White, but I don't think that one is availlable on fixed wall. It is similar to the HC Cinema Vision, but I am lead to believe that the CV is better.

Lastly you could go with a higher gain screen (say 1.5 or so) but I don't know off the top, which one that is. Anyway the HC CV and the CV, as well as one of the HC mattes, should be available on the perm wall, or if you want to spurge on nice trim (a lot more $) the Cinema Contour screen, (similar name), with Pro-Trim. Avoid the Imager, which is iffy at large sizes since it uses velcro to adhere the surface to the frame. Certainly the perm wall makes it affordable.

Got it? -art

Thanks art! Sounds like either the Cinema Vision or HC Cinema Vision are the screens of choice in my situation. I've still got a week or two to study this. I do appreciate the advice from everyone.

Has anyone tried the Carada screens with this projector?

They have a 1.4 gain white and 1.0 gain white.

I actually went with a 120.5" SliverStar XWF screen. It took up all the space on the wall and had it been one inch bigger either way, there is no way it would have fit in my basement. I have been told it will be an excellent screen once I fire up the PJ on it. Speaking of which hopefully the second batch of the 7700s will be in next week. Must be doing well since everyone seems to be backordered...

Yep, I backordered mine this week, Joe. I have another slightly-OT (but specific to this projector, and the MT700 for that matter) question:

Is anyone going to do a constant height setup w/2.35:1 screen with this projector? If so, which lens, and have you received it and gotten it working yet? I'm waiting on buying a screen until I build my dedicated HT and can hopefully get a lens and 2.35:1 screen.

Two side notes to this:
- The Vutec Silverstar doesn't come in 2.35:1, does it?
- Will the short throw be a problem? Maximum zoom (ie max throw distance and max throw ratio) is 1.78 for this projector, according to the PC calculator... is this too short for a horizontal stretch?

Benq PE7700 does sync 50Hz via hdmi. It shows 720p50 in lower right corner, when I switch my Nvidia 6600GT to 1280x720@50Hz

Regards

Dom

What is the computer image from the projector like? Is it as good as a dvd player hooked up to it, or a bit worse?

Thanks art! Sounds like either the Cinema Vision or HC Cinema Vision are the screens of choice in my situation. I've still got a week or two to study this. I do appreciate the advice from everyone.

Sorry, I didn't register that you were getting a fixed wall screen. Art's correct in that the HCMW is not available in fixed wall. The CV has a little higher gain (1.3), but I would go with the HCCV for better blacks.

Guys

I was just talking to a BENQ dealer and they were recommending the Dalite High Contrast Damat Perm-wall screen...said with the border, it comes to about 1.0 gain and the colors are awesome.

I am using 114" screen...comments on this vs. the HCCV?

Also, I was surprised on the competitive pricing on Dalite, but any comments on the Carada line of screens for this projector? They are actually a bit more $ than the Dalite which surprised me. I do like their frame better however.

Eventually I plan to request screen samples, and compare for myself... I'm surprised as well that the Carada are more than Dalite (also agree that the frame is better though).

The HC DaMat is a 0.8 gain grey screen. It will work well with the 7700 since it has enough lumen output for it. It also is cheaper than the HCCV. Your whites wont be quite as white, but your blacks will be blacker. Miltimj's suggestion to request samples is a good idea to see which you'd like best.

The Permwall is the lowest priced fixed screen since it's just a frame that you bolt to the wall and the screen snaps to it. The Carada (or other DaLites) use a stronger frame that can be hung.

Tim, I was going to do a 2.35 setup too (I bought a panamorph), but you have to run min zoom (at 15 foot throw) and I liked the large screen much better. The screen door isn't a problem for me at less than 1:1 seating distance, and the brightness is awesome, so the reasons for the lens are kind of muted. I am thinking of a 2.0 screen and zoom to the width for 2.35 (masking just the top) and zooming back for 1.85 masking the sides. I still haven't decided.
The ISCO III lens is the only one that would work for me and it's price is just silly.
Warren.

Thanks for your insight Warren; however, I'm somewhat confused. Why does min zoom imply a smaller image (when you can just move the projector back). Or are you saying that in your situation you can't move the projector? I think minimum zoom is the best case since you can do a longer throw.

I guess for me, the bigger factor is having a constant height screen. I really, really like that concept (ie 2.35:1 is more screen area than 16:9). The brightness and more pixels is a bonus.

Edit: I just realized that your comment, "you have to run min zoom (at 15 foot throw) and I liked the large screen much better" may not imply a correlation, but are two independent reasons... (ie you like the 16:9 image to be bigger). In that case, I think are preferences are simply different.

Does anyone know if the BenQ's power input (for powercord) is a two or a three pin? I am a big fan of using Monster PowerCords (I do believe they help increase the picture quality some) and I want to know so I can put some of this long cord in the ceiling as they begain dry walling tomorrow...Thanks, Joe

I'm almost positive (without seeing it) that it's a three-prong cord.

And I've just bitten my tongue off regarding the monster powercord... :D

It's a standard 3-pin, same as used by InFocus, Optoma and other manufacturers.

Tim, I just meant I cannot move my projector back (kitchen is there,) so at 15 foot and min zoom the picture is tiny. Plus the Panamorph lens does vertical compression instead of horizontal expansion, so that made it even smaller. If you have room go for it. Just remember the projector doesn't have a vertical stretch mode so your DVD player or processor will need to. In my case I bought an iScan HD+ for that.
Warren.

Thanks for the clarification, Warren. I thought the panamorph was a horizontal stretch -- guess I was wrong (I've been looking at quite a few lately). Anyway, most likely I'll eventually get something like the Prismasonic H-1000 (since this is such a short throw PJ). Especially if the panamorph is a vertical compression lens.

I'm going to use an HTPC for the deinterlacing.. I have a crappy DVD player now, and rather than spend the ~$200 on one, I'll build an HTPC (that I've wanted to do for a while anyway) for this.

You can get a Prismasonic lens that does horizontal stretch for much less than an ISCO (more than a Panamorph though).

The Prismatic is great if you can use min zoom, if not the ISCO III is the only one big enough to handle max zoom on a short throw projector. I set up my pc on the projector, the results are awesome, but my pc is too loud for everyday movie listening. Also the iScan autoswithes between directv, dvd and xbox so my stereo stays on the same input and the projector needs only one cable. Very family friendly.

I set up my pc on the projector
Your poor projector! It might not last very long that way... :D

Sorry, I didn't register that you were getting a fixed wall screen. Art's correct in that the HCMW is not available in fixed wall. The CV has a little higher gain (1.3), but I would go with the HCCV for better blacks.

Thanks. I've narrowed the field to either the Cinema Vision or the HC Cinema Vision. Three questions:

a) which of these is better at rejecting ambient room light?

b) am I correct in saying that the HC sacrifices brightness in favor of better blacks?

c) which is better for viewing from a position to the right or left of the screen?

These are questions that are relevant to any projector with this screen, and not just the PE7700... I'd recommend creating a thread in the Screens forum for this...

Take a look at the descriptions here (http://da-litehometheater.com/products/selecting4.php). It describes the differences pretty well. Both have the same viewing angle.

NMJack,

A grey screen gives you a better black base line for when ambient light is shining on it - a white one in the same conditions (with ambient) would looked comparatively washed out. The screen gain dictates viewing angle and how well it rejects ambient light - screens with gain have directionality (generaly speaking, more gain, more directionality), so the projected light goes back more towards the viewing area, and ambient reflects back more towards its source.

The Firehawk is a fantastic product to combat ambient light, and the Da-Lite HCCV equivalent should work almost as well as Mike suggests.

Gary.

Can PE7700 owners help me out here and tell me what gaming and pc use is like on it?

Thanks

Zack, what are you specifically looking for? It's HD resolution on a 10 foot widescreen (for example). What are you trying to compare it to? There are many variables, and everything is relative. I thought widescreen 480p Xbox games, and PC games were awesome on my X1. But I know that with the PE7700 it will only get better (soon to find out first hand :))

NMJack,

A grey screen gives you a better black base line for when ambient light is shining on it - a white one in the same conditions (with ambient) would looked comparatively washed out. The screen gain dictates viewing angle and how well it rejects ambient light - screens with gain have directionality (generaly speaking, more gain, more directionality), so the projected light goes back more towards the viewing area, and ambient reflects back more towards its source.

The Firehawk is a fantastic product to combat ambient light, and the Da-Lite HCCV equivalent should work almost as well as Mike suggests.

Gary.

Thanks Gary. If I understand your comments correctly, the answers to my questions would be:

a) which of these is better at rejecting ambient room light?

The Cincema Vision (non-HC) due to its higher gain reflecting ambient light back towards its source instead of dispersing it towards the viewer.

b) am I correct in saying that the HC sacrifices brightness in favor of better blacks?

Yes - for viewers in the center.

c) which is better for viewing from a position to the right or left of the screen?

The High Contrast Cinema Vision, due to its lesser "directionality".

Sorry for the OT dialogue. I took someone's advice and posted my questions over on the screen forum.

I would say yes to a) and c), and 'maybe' to b). :)

However, the proviso with A is that with no grey base coat, there would be less visible detail compared to a grey screen with the same gain. I've seen a split screen with both Firehawk and Studiotek 130 material in high ambient conditions, and the difference was literaly night and day. There was very little visible detail in the white screen which made it difficult to see what was going on (it looked very washed out), whereas the Firehawk was very watchable with plenty of detail in the same scene. The Firehawk is rated at 1.35 gain (but closer to 1.1 apparently), and the ST130 is 1.3 gain. So despite more real-world gain, the ST130 was inferior in performance with ambient light.

b) would be sacrificing brightness for those at the edges of the viewing cone, not at the center, unless you were comparing the gains of the two materials (hence the 'maybe') which are 1.3 verses 1.1, in which case yes, it's sacrificing brightness in the center, and the brightness becomes less of an issue between them as you go off-center.

So, going on what I have seen comparing Firehawk to ST130, for ambient light conditions, I would choose a grey screen with gain. The ST130/FH split screen is sometimes available at dealers for demos. Try and get to see one if you can and you'll see what I mean and I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusions. Oh, and not forgetting that black level is noticably improved too, under all viewing conditions. :)

Gary.

Thanks guys... I forgot to mention that I'll be going with a 106" (diag) screen size, totally light controlled environment, dedicated theater room, 11x24x9...

I went back and forth with these two screen materials and ended up going with the Cinema Vision. In a light controlled right, I think this is the better option for the screen size you're talking about. This PJ has good contract and the black levels are good enough not to need the grey screen to enhance them.

I used a grey screen for my last PJ, with a much lower contract ratio, and it was the right move.

The screen really depends on the ambient light though so get a sample of both materials and see which one works better given your light situation.

The HC is better at rejecting ambient light with it's grey base.
I didn't think that would be a problem, since I have almost total light control, but this projector is so bright it lights up the whole room, creating it's own light problem.
Todd_zilla, At 106" it is going to be very bright. Make sure to paint your walls and ceiling dark and get dark furniture. That is my next move. I would really go 120" at least in that room. I am going 133" myself, although 140" would be nicer. HC Matte white for me.
Zack, that 7700 makes a great monitor. Games are awesome, but not all games support the resolution. I played some Chronicles of Riddick and splinter cell - chaos theory. I really wish Battlefield Vietnam supported it. Near life-sized helis would be awesome. Hopefully battlefield 2 will.
The media player high definition version of T2 is awesome.
Warren.

Gary - thanks for the explanation. I think this is a good discussion here, since the screens we are talking about sound like they would be popular choices to compliment the 7700/MT700. Like the PJ's, these screens are in the more moderate price range and in the larger sizes they would seem to require the brightness and resolution that these PJ's provide (vs. PJ's in lower price ranges). I'm leaning towards the HC Cinema Vision based on some research and a lot of good advice. In my case, ambient room light is probably a variable. If I wind up with a PJ/screen combination that suffers too much ambient light, I can take steps to eliminate it. The two windows in the room could easily be masked off and the walls/ceiling could be painted, although that would not be my first choice.

The room will be very dark... ceilings will be black and the screen wall will be black velvet everywhere the eye can see other than the screen of course...

NMJack,

Yes, it's good to get different peoples experiences and opinions since it can help making a decision easier. Some people prefer white screens to grey screens, but I like them both. In your conditions I would think the HCCV is a good choice (best choice even), and even if you had perfect light control, you would still benefit from the grey screen as it would help reduce the black level which is quite noticable in my experience (especialy if your pj is very bright).

The grey screen means you don't have to paint the walls and ceiling dark colours, but of course for a cinema room that is recommended. Maybe later? :)

Gary.

Would a Stewart Studiotech 130 be overkill for this projector?

Anyone been able to compare this PJ head to head with a Sharp Z2000?

Maybe later? :)

Yep. I repainted 100% of my last house and hated every minute of it. So much so, that when I had my current house built I insisted that the contractor create an "option" for a specific paint that Dunn-Edwards recommended. Of course, being the mass production outfit they are, they screwed up and put in the basic home-builder "paint" (glorified primer :) ). They had to come back a week later and repaint the whole place with good stuff. Bottom line - I've got a great paint surface throughout this house and I shouldn't have to lift another paint brush as long as I live here / live.....

So, yeah I'll do some painting if it makes sense, but that will be a last resort. I may try to find a nice dark color that compliments the existing paint in order to paint at least the front wall behind the screen darker. That I can probably handle.

Dunn-Edwards makes a Dark Maroon that is excellent and also Deep Earth.

I used the Maroon on my walls and the Earth on the ceiling.

WAF = 100%

As to the question about the StudioTek 130 being overkill... Nope the 130 is a magnificent screen... just depends on the environment you are putting it in. If your Theater is Light Controlled then the 130 is marvelous and you can go for a "BIG" screen. If you have to deal with ambient light, it would not be the first choice.

I agree with Steve regarding the ST130. Probably (probably?) one of the best screens out there with that gain. For ambient light, I'd go with the Firehawk.

Gary.

No ambient light issues... totally controlled environment with no real "side view" issues. What other screen would be a good fit for this environment? Dalite? Carada?

I'm thinking though, that the Studiotech 130 would probably be a good investment in the event of a future upgrade...

Carada Billiant White (if on a budget.. ps. get the new larger frame) or SilverStar are also excellent choices........

StudioTek is considered to be the most color "neutral" but I have never talked to anyone who has seen the SilverStar in person that was not impressed.

Dave's Carada Brilliant White is a great screen with a wonderful new frame and a bargin price.

Isn't choice great?!?

Steves commnets about the ST130 neutrality is quite true - I saw the ST130/Firehawk split screen in front of another make of screen, and the projected image overlaped all the screens. It was then that we noticed the other screen had a slight pink tint to it in comparison to the ST130 which appeared pure white. However, without the comparison you'd never know the other screen was slightly pink. :)

Gary.

Could someone post the dimensions of the mounting holes on the PE7700?

I'm trying to plan ahead so I can retrofit my old Infocus mount with a new plate.
I believe I read that the holes are 6mm, has anyone had any luck finding suitable screws at Home Depot or Lowes?

I don't have the exact dimensions, but here is the layout for the screws.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=37961&stc=1

Anyone been able to compare this PJ head to head with a Sharp Z2000?

I am very interested in this as well :D

Zack, that 7700 makes a great monitor. Games are awesome, but not all games support the resolution. I played some Chronicles of Riddick and splinter cell - chaos theory. I really wish Battlefield Vietnam supported it. Near life-sized helis would be awesome.

Nearly all recent games can be set to play at 16:9. I play Battlefield: Vietnam at 1280x720 all the time. Check out widescreengamingforums (http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/) .

Sadly I just play on my LCD because I don't want to burn my MT700's lamp hours.

Can anyone from Europe with benq7700 , confirm that PJ cannot lock signal with HTPC -xp sp2 - and powerstrip 50 Hz (with ati radeon 9200-9800)? We tried everything but pj cannot lock. We tried also with ati x800 (agp) and it locked ! What hapenned ?

Can anyone from Europe with benq7700 , confirm that PJ cannot lock signal with HTPC -xp sp2 - and powerstrip 50 Hz (with ati radeon 9200-9800)? We tried everything but pj cannot lock. We tried also with ati x800 (agp) and it locked ! What hapenned ?
Toxotis70,
I´ve tried with a Geoforce 5900xt, and no problems to get 1280*720@50 hz with powerstrip. In nearly 30 second all was OK.

Your card is AGP OR PCIE ?
What programm do you use for dvd playback?
Is it smooth any stutters) in 50Hz?

I have my HTPC running 720p (60hz) through the VGA/BNC with the 7700 and it looks pretty good. However, it's hard to say if it looks better than DVD through a standalone player hooked up on progressive running 480p.

Can anyone confirm that 720p thorugh HDMI would yield a noticeable improvement, i.e. is it worth doing?

Thx

I don't have the exact dimensions, but here is the layout for the screws.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=37961&stc=1


Mange tack, Tor Ove.

Looks like they're not making it easy on me. All holes seem to be offset - I guess I'll have to wing this when I get my hands on one - that or pony up for a factory mount.

Your card is AGP OR PCIE ?
What programm do you use for dvd playback?
Is it smooth any stutters) in 50Hz?
1.- I don't know. Just, that´s a nVidia 5900xt. Sorry.
2.- Zoomplayer+fddshow+powerstrip, HDMI
3.- My english is really bad, so i don´t understand what you're asking. I can say that in 50hz in PAL movies, goes very fluide (well, i´m traing to say that there,s no mini-stops ), if is that what you're asking (?)

In few days i´ll try a panasonic s97 with the pe7700.

It looks to me like if you took out the front feet it would give you four holes in a square. I couldn't get them out though. They seemed to be different thread too, but I wasn't sure about that. Luckily I had a 1 foot room divider on my ceiling and I was able to get some cheap shelf brackets and make an upside down shelf to mount the projector to. 20 bucks or so, and I didn't have to mess with the ceiling.
Warren.

Guys

Has anyone seen this projector with a Dalite HC Damat screen? My dealer is highly recommending this screen. It is what they use in their showroom and in customer homes with very good light controlled environment.

I mentioned the HCCV and he says that is good if your lighting is not as controlled.

Thoughts? (I am using 114" screen) 16x19x9 room.
Jim

Im still waiting for my pe7700....got the mount in...thats like punishment almost. Thinking of a Parkland material screen. Menards by me has the 4'8 sheets for $29 in various shades of white and gray. I've read a few threads on the parkland DIY screens here, but what I'm wondering is what variant of the polywall are people using? There is gray, silk white, bright white and something else... I dont think I want to mount it directly to the wall so I'll probably come up with a plywood backing using liquid nails. I'll dig around for frame ideas...

Hold off on the screen until you get your PJ. As soon as I projected a picture I kept zooming out larger and after a few weeks decided a 106 diag was the right size for my room and furniture position, and had a much better Big screen experence feel, to large for most 4x8 sheets of material, so I'm going to use acrylic paint on the wall first then a fix mount if the paint does not work out.

Good luck

FYI we just found out that the BenQ PE7700's are back in the country. I have some on the way that are unspoken for. If anyone is interested let me know!

Mine is on the FedEx truck right now... Can't wait to see it.

cheklist what is your viewing distance? I'll be right around 10' from seating to screen. I had another sanyo 4:3 up there playing 16:9 material and measured the widest it could do at 83" which was bordering on being too big almost. But you're right I wont commit to any screen until the PJ is mounted and Im happy with the size. Figured I could just suspend the parkland board on mounts and if I didnt like it just return it since I wont be altering the surface...I just want my projector already!

My front row is at 9ft your 10 ft will be great. My main viewing couch will be at 14ft, but my wife likes the front row.

The high res of the 1280x720 along with the DLP technology gave me the quality I was looking for, it allowed all the seats in my HT to have a high quality picture.

I wish I had taken the advice that someone out hear gave me a long time ago, to purchase the PJ first and watch some movies for a few days before deciding on a screen size if I HAD I WOULD NOT HAVE A 92" diag screen for sale! Well at lease it was the only mistake so far, I learned to listen to the experts out her with a better ear.

The PE7700 would have no problem filling a 120 inch diag screen with a little higher gain screen and little to no lights on. In my room 106" work's out the best with the amount of ambient light my wife needs to read as I watch a movie. I must admit it's nice to have a few light on, and not feel like your in a cave.

I just tried a first time calibration of the 7700 using the THX optimizer in Finding Nemo. On the brightness calibration page, the THX drop shadow doesn't appear with brightness changes on the PJ. Is this normal?

Thanks

Yes, if you're using component inputs, you must set the 7700 to 0 IRE. At 7.5 IRE, you probably won't even see the seventh box on the THX pattern.

Mike,

I'm using component progressive from a DVD player. It was set to 0 IRE on the PJ. I've also tried setting the DVD player on both 'lighter' and 'darker' settings with no effect as well.

Although everything appears to work fine, can it be cabling? Temporarily, I have the DVD player outputting on component, going into to a component to VGA adaptor, then to the VGA/BNC cable. I'm doing this right now purely to extend my existing cabling length until I can get the PJ ceiling mounted.

I've also noticed one other odd thing. I sometimes notice that the PJ powers up in Picture on picture mode even though POP isn't enabled. The menus confirm it. The fix is to select the Comp2 source. I have a single connection to the BNC connectors.

On one other occasion the PJ would flash intermittently about every 10 to 20 seconds with the source detected 525p indicator in the lower right hand corner of the screen. During this state, the color was messed up - i.e. green shows up as bluish, giving the picture a cartoonish look. Other than the odd color, there was no other behaviour. OSD displays were fine. This condition did not correct itself until I powered the PJ off then back on.

OK. I've convinced myself I have to simplify the cabling setup before going any further.

Thanks

It sounds like it's losing sync and the 525p pops up when it reestablishs it. You should definitely simplify your cable connection with direct component connections before going further. However, with some DVD players, you may never see the drop shadow, but you should see the 7th box in the row.

Just got may PE7700 in - woohoo! But my room is NOT ready yet - boohoo!!!

First dumb (newbie) question. I bought a generic ceiling mount off the web. It has screws that "fit" the mounting holes, but NONE that are short enough to get the mount legs "snug" to the PJ when screws are in as far as they can go, that is, when I install the screws, about 1/4" of the shaft still shows. What am I missing?

Zilla, get shorter 6mm screws at ACE hardware. You could use a bunch of washers, but best to get shorter screws.
Warren.

Yes I went to Ace and looked at the M6 screws; they didn't have shorter ones.

Has anybody made the move from an AE700 to this one? I always had my heart set on a 1280x720 DLP but when I was ready to buy there wasnt one out in my price range but used ae700's are going for quite a bit still and it wouldnt cost me that much to upgrade so wondering if its really worth it to go from an ae700 to the PE7700.

Ahh, the way I made my mount was to take the M6 threaded rod (basically a long M6 screw with no screw top, just thread,) and put those into the projector and put M6 nuts on to hold it to my mount. I don't tighten the mount to the projector, I adjust the picture using those nuts.
Thus, mine are loose too, but the weight of the projector holds it still.
Perhaps, like me, you really don't need to worry about them being tight.
Warren.

I just got my PE7700 on Saturday and set it up quick before I had to leave for two weeks... so I'm posting while away from home. All I can say is I loved the picture! I have it sitting on my coffee table right now projecting from something like 7' and severely angled upward with keystone correction on. Obviously the two sides look jagged w/keystone, but the image itself is amazing. This is probably because I'm upgrading from an X1. Regardless, I love the picture, and can't wait to ceiling mount it at the proper height and image size... I may just need to build a decent screen now... Just wanted to share my delight!

It sounds like it's losing sync and the 525p pops up when it reestablishs it. You should definitely simplify your cable connection with direct component connections before going further. However, with some DVD players, you may never see the drop shadow, but you should see the 7th box in the row.

OK. I now have a straight through component cable and I guess my DVD player, a Panasonic RP62, does not show the drop shadow. The 7th box is there so I guess I'm fine.

Incidentally, I've just tried a DVI/HDMI connection from an HTPC outputting 720p. I'm using zp and ffdshow. The picture looks noticeably improved. The image is sharper and details stands out more. The HTPC setup shows the drop shadow.

Thanks again

I just got my PE7700 on Saturday and set it up quick before I had to leave for two weeks... so I'm posting while away from home. All I can say is I loved the picture! I have it sitting on my coffee table right now projecting from something like 7' and severely angled upward with keystone correction on. Obviously the two sides look jagged w/keystone, but the image itself is amazing. This is probably because I'm upgrading from an X1. Regardless, I love the picture, and can't wait to ceiling mount it at the proper height and image size... I may just need to build a decent screen now... Just wanted to share my delight!

Congratulations. My setup and impressions mirror yours. I upgraded from an X1 as well. To me the difference is significant and worth the extra cost. I can watch DVD or HD right out of the box and not feel the need to tweak.

BTW, I didn't mean to sound "too" dumb - I knew what needed to be done (get shorter screws), just didn't know if someone, either BenQ or the mount supplier, was "supposed" to give me a set. I got some from Lowe's. Thanks!

I was looking on the BenQ web page for information on the PE-7700 and came across this graphic.

What are they referencing to when they say the PE-7700 has adjustable gamma curve?

Are they saying that there are preset gamma curves to select, or there is a user adjustable gamma curve like the Toshiba MT-700?

What do you think?


http://home.comcast.net/~stevexl5/PE7700.png

I just received my PE7700 and spent some time calibrating it to D65 (not too much time because I was anxious to watch some movies on it). As a former owner of the PE8700, I would echo what others have said about the PE7700’s impressive performance in light of its price.

As I get time, I will run a grayscale measurement on the various color temps (warm, normal, cool) and post the charts. I will also post my settings for a D65 grayscale and adjustments to the color decoder settings when the lamp has a few more hours on it (obviously, your mileage may vary).

One thing I would note is that sharpness should remain at 0 rather than the more common practice of adjusting sharpness to its lowest setting. Using the Accupel sharpness pattern at 720p, edge enhancement was obvious at +1 and the projector lost 1x1 pixel mapping with sharpness at -1. With sharpness at 0, there was 1x1 pixel mapping and no artifacts.

With its exceptional brightness (I’m using a 118-inch 16:9 screen), the PE7700 is a prime candidate for achieving better PQ using a color correction filter. I attached the Hoya filter from my PE8700 and was rewarded with better blacks, increased contrast ratio, and more accurate color. I need to recalibrate with the color correction filter, but I feel this relatively inexpensive tweak (a filter is $50-$70) has some real potential.

I’m trying to get a hold of the service manual, and will post more information as I have time to experiment with this great projector.

Kevin R. Anderson
With its exceptional brightness (I’m using a 118-inch 16:9 screen), the PE7700 is a prime candidate for achieving better PQ using a color correction filter. I attached the Hoya filter from my PE8700 and was rewarded with better blacks, increased contrast ratio, and more accurate color. I need to recalibrate with the color correction filter, but I feel this relatively inexpensive tweak (a filter is $50-$70) has some real potential.

Kevin,

Which color correction filter are you using, 81A? Once you re-cal using the filter, all of the color presets on the BenQ will no longer be useable unless you remove the filter, correct?

If I wanted to use the filter and calibrate for D65, then I could use another user memory to save a higher color temp cal for my HDTV if I wanted, right?

How much of a lumen drop do you think you take a hit on when you use the filter?

Kevin R. Anderson
How much of a lumen drop do you think you take a hit on when you use the filter?

I seem to remember measuring around 11% drop on my DLP when I added an fl-day, so the 81a might be in a similar area. Hoya HMC filters will drop les light than non coated lenses I would think.

Gary.

Thanks Kevin keep us informed on the filter # you used and the settings you end up with. I have not done any calibration on my pj’s temporary setup, waiting to get into the HT in about 4 weeks when all the painting a molding is done. :)

Gary Lightfoot post:
I seem to remember measuring around 11% drop on my DLP when I added an fl-day, so the 81a might be in a similar area. Hoya HMC filters will drop les light than non coated lenses I would think.

Gary,

That's not bad. I calibrated my NEC LT150 with an 81A and by the time I had everything tweaked, in my opinion, the output was too dim to watch.

What did you use to rebalance the RGBs? Colorfacts or SMART?

Gary.

Gary,

I used Colorfacts and also had the tool to modify the gamma tables. With the filter in place, it was much easier to calibrate the temp flat from 20 IRE - 100 IRE. Unfortunately, there was close to a 50% drop in Lumens.

So I settled for a higher color temp with good linearity to retain more lumens.

Wow, that's quite a drop.

It sounds like the 81a isn't the best choice of filter - you need something that will color correct the pj with the green and blue as high as possible, so you can keep some brightness by not cutting them too much.

What kind of colour balance do you get if you ramp up the RGB contrasts? On my DLP I had green 5% higher than red, and blue was around 20% higher. Using an fl-day combined with an 81a was a good combination, but that dropped around 22% of the lumens, so was too much for the little extra contrast it gained. I ended with just the fl-day, but when the pj was upgraded and came back brighter, I put the two filters on and recalibrated, and that's how I have it now.

I think red cuts green, and yellow cuts blue, so you might be better off choosing a color correction filter that will cut the color that is the greatest, that way you are keeping the most lumens you can by adjusting the colours that are producing less. Green has most 'energy' which is why it seems to be the colour most people correct for, but I wonder how many lumens that is giving in comparison to blue.

Gary.

I eventually removed the Hoya fl-day filter from my BenQ 8700 because it became too dim. However, even with the PE7700 lamp set to "economic" mode and the CC filter in place, the PE7700 is still more than bright enough for my tastes. I will be interested to see how much the picture dims over time, but right now, it is plenty bright for me. I have not yet had time to measure the drop in footlamberts, but will let you know when I do.

It should be noted that an ISF calibration almost always results in a reduction in out-of-the-box brightness so as to avoid crushing whites and to achieve a linear grayscale at high luminance levels because at such levels, DLPs tend to run out of red turning the grayscale temp towards blue.

The SMPTE standard for movie theaters 12-22 footlamberts off the screen with 16 being the nominal number, which is not as bright as one might think.

It is correct that the grayscale settings with the filter will be different than without, and the filter calibration should be stored as User1 or User2 color temp. However, I don't know why you would want to take the filter off to watch HDTV -- if the filter helps PQ on a DVD, it will equally help PQ with HDTV.

Kevin,

So what is the final ON/OFF contrast of PE 7700 after some tweaking?

AnD

Are they saying that there are preset gamma curves to select, or there is a user adjustable gamma curve like the Toshiba MT-700?

What do you think?

This was mentioned awhile ago and there no one's found a way to do that with the 7700 to my knowledge.

I'm not sure if the 7700's set up the same way out of the box as the MT700, but with the MT700, the "warm" temp setting is at 61-62K, with the "middle" and "cool" at 75-80K.

Gary,

I've enjoyed the LT-150 as a tweaked HT projector, but the projector was designed to be a tiny portable business projector, and to be bright enough they dialed it in close to 9000K. So, by the time you drop the temp and balance the drives on this unit, it's putting out much less light. I've had this projector for 4 years now and I'm ready to try the BenQ or Toshiba.

Kevin,

Thanks for your updates on your adjustments, I'll continue to follow your posts.

Mike,

That's what I thought, the Benq doesn't have a user adjustable gamma curve (without possible service access), so it threw me off when I saw the gamma curve graphic. I'm still not sure what BenQ is stating.

Either way, you can't go wrong with these projectors.

DIY Guy,

I see your point. I used to have a Davis DLS8 but never tried calibrating that other than basic black and white levels. I didn't get Colorfacts until I had an HT1000 but would love to have a go at seeing ehat kind of figures I could get from modding and tweaking it now.

Kevin,

Isn't the aim 12ft lamberts with film in the projector gate, and 16 being the figure attained without film? And isn't 12 also the recommended figure for Digital Theater? I always aim for 12, and find that dimmer isn't too bad if you have reasonable contrast. I recently tried to eak some more contrast from an HT1000 by using two filters together, and achieved 2200:1 CR @D65 with a flat greyscale and almost perfect CIE. The image was very filmlike and watchable, yet surprisingly was only producing 4ft lamberts.

Gary.

Gary:

My understanding is the same as yours about the SMPTE standards for theaters -- 16 ft lamberts without film and 12 with. I also agree that contrast ratio is a more meaningful measurement of PQ so long as you can achieve total control over all ambient light in your theater room.

On a perfectly dark and clear night, your eye can discern a candle light from 30 miles -- that gives you some idea of your eye's sensitivity in a controlled environment.

Couple of questions for those of you with 7700's.

I'm seriously looking at one of these, ideally I'd like to pair it with an anamorphic lense. In my setup a horizontal compression lense would work best with this PJ, effectively extending the throw, and adding an offset.

Now given that, I'd want to run it through the lense all the time. Fine and dandy with my HTPC, I can correct for the squish, but not for the Xbox. What I need to do is squish a (due to lense) 2.35:1 image back to 16x9. That's a 25% shrink, same as 16x9->4x3. From looking at the manual, I see it's got a 4x3 mode that displays 4x3 pillarboxed, which should be perfect to correct 16x9 on a 2.35 screen.

Can the AR modes be accessed with all sources? Specifically can the 4x3 mode be engaged with a 480p or 720p source?

And is it just me or are the illustrations for the AR modes confusing? :)

Thanks, and appologies if I missed this earlier in the thread.

Hi Kevin,

You make a good point about ambient light - this was shown by Krasmuzic with the relevant maths and contrast numbers in a non light contriolled room (thread in the >$3500 forum) - a projector capable of around 2000:1 CR was only able to produce around 80:1 in a room with ambient light.

As you say, total light control is very important as even a 9" LC CRT will will fare no better with any light in the room and negate any black level advantages it may have.

Interesting info regarding our eyes, I didn't realise they were that sensative!

Gary.

Here is a link to that interesting bit of trivia about eye sensitivity (scroll to the very bottom)

http://electro-optical.com/whitepapers/candela.htm

I'm moving into a house that has a 3rd bedroom that I think will work great as a home theatre. The dimensions are 15'8" x 9'5", only one window (where I will put the center of the screen). I figure I can board it up and put the center channel behind the screen. Anyway, what size diagonal do you think I can get away with, allowing for 2 rows of 3 seats each and comfort, and being far enough away from the screen to enjoy, and not right on the back wall so I can enjoy my rear speakers as well (7.1 system). Finally, what screen do you think would be good. Do I need one that is acoustically transparent for the center channel, or can I just increase the volume on the speaker specifically (via my Denon's room calibration) to make up for it. Any harming the screen at all? Thanks!

Oh yeah...the reason I ask is I eally want to get this projector! :)

I hope to do something like that Fool. I think 15 foot is only two rows of seating comfortably. Myself, I would get a screen as wide as the distance to your first row. Right now mine is 10 feet wide and I sit at 10 feet. Looks awesome. On certain bright spots you can see screen door if you look for it. My second row is at 14 feet and you never see screen door there.
Warren.

Is the bulb of 8700 same as 7700?

FoolintheRain -- Not a good idea. If you can't mount the center channel under or over the screen, then you need an acoustically transparent screen.

You will loose the center mid and high frequencies (and defeat the purspose of the center channel in the first place) if you put it behind the screen (boosing it's output won't help).