Official BENQ PE7700 Thread! There can only be one!

Looks like this projector may be my first foray into DLP front projection. I've just about had it with my Sanyo PLV-Z2 and LCD front projection.

Let's get this thread going!

PRESS RELEASE

BenQ Expands Line of Award-Winning Home Theater Digital Projectors

PE7700 Features Latest HD2+ DMD Chipset from Texas Instruments, 1000 Lumens,
a 2500:1 Contrast Ratio and 6-Segment Color Wheel for High Performance

LAS VEGAS (January 6, 2005) – BenQ today announced a new addition to its award-winning line of home theater digital projectors, the PE7700, a strong, mid-range unit for home theater enthusiasts who desire a high standard of image quality. The PE7700 features the latest DLP™-based HD2+ DMD chipset from Texas Instruments, 1000 ANSI lumens of brightness, a 2500:1 contrast ratio and 6-segment color wheel that displays up to 16.7 million colors.

The PE7700 home theater projector features BenQ's proprietary Senseye technology. Senseye digital-enhancement technology automatically and dynamically improves image quality, adjusts brightness and darkness levels, performs color-mapping procedures, and reduces jagged edges on images. Senseye also adjusts contrast, color and sharpness settings, which significantly enhances the display of pictures and graphics-intensive applications such as gaming, digital photos, entertainment and professional multimedia presentations.

To keep this highly calibrated system operating properly, the PE7700 comes with micro-dust filters that aid in the prevention of air particles damaging the DMD chipsets. The result is a home theater digital projector that is designed for long-lasting operation and provides consistent image quality. The PE7700 utilizes proprietary BenQ video-processing technology to support the latest DLP chip set from Texas Instruments. The DLP chipsets produce flawless pictures that won't fade or degrade over time.

PE7700 Specifications
The PE7700 digital home cinema projector features a high WXGA resolution (1280x720), produces a 100-inch image at a 9.8 feet throw ratio and has brightness levels of 1000 ANSI lumens. The unit weighs approximately ten pounds, and the casing dimensions are 15" (wide) x 4.5" (height) x 11.8" (deep). The PE7700 includes BNC (x5), RCA (video), S-Video, component (RCAx3) and HDMI (with HDCP x1) connectors.

Available in early March 2005, the PE7700 comes with an estimated street price of $3,299.

About BenQ
BenQ is an industry leader in networking lifestyle devices with an expertise that encompasses display, storage, imaging, wireless and broadband areas.

BenQ has manufacturing plants in Malaysia, Mexico, China and Taiwan. The company has more than 15,000 employees worldwide, supporting a strong global sales marketing and service network spanning Asia-Pacific, Europe and the Americas. BenQ has research and development facilities in Taiwan (Hsinchu Lab), China (Suzhou Software Development Center) and California, USA (Wireless Technology Center), and has more than 2,000 research and development employees in Suzhou, Taipei, Taoyuan, Hsinchu and San Diego. BenQ has amassed 1,738 global patents. 2003 revenues exceeded US$3.6 billion dollars. For more information about BenQ, please visit our website at BenQ.com.

How is this official? Even I wouldn't have been so bold as to embody the cajones to think I would be worthy for an official thread status.

Who can start "official" threads?

Steve

Originally posted by stephenfrancis
Who can start "official" threads?

Steve
not you, apparently. lol
anyway, lets stick to this thread re: PE7700.


if that is the case, it might be worth my wait for the Benq PE7700. the $1300 price diff is too large for me to go DLP as much as i prefer the stability of DLP more.

Edited to remove price discussion

Things that I've seen on the 7800 that would like the 7700 improved.

- The "fog". I think without an iris the Sony HS51 dishes out a better picture without fogs in the blacks.

- Cropping. I know it doesnt bother you but it does to me. When you feed it native res, I expect to see native res especially when its a 1280x720 native DMD (I expected to see 720x480 DVD under 1024x576 but I dont).

- Blurs on fast panning.

It's a bit early for an official thread on this... seems like we won't see it for a couple more months. But what the heck, I'll leave it open for discussion.

That said, keep the street price discussion out of it!

Guys, I was joking. Sorry for forgetting the smilee. --> :)

the smily makes it all better??? :p the nerves! :p ;)

If it's going to have that high a price tag what features will it have? I wonder if it will be a watered down 8700+. To me that doesn't warrant the extra dough!

is this going to be a replacement for the 7800 ??

Originally posted by FiveMillionWays
If it's going to have that high a price tag what features will it have? I wonder if it will be a watered down 8700+. To me that doesn't warrant the extra dough!

The MSRP on the 7700 is $3299 which will have street prices much lower than this. THe MSRP for the 7700 is still much much lower than the current street price for the 8700+.

I don't believe this is a replacement for the 7800 (Matternhorn 576p) but a replacement for the 8700+ (Mustang HD2+ 720p). I think of it as a lower cost build of the 8700+, similar to what Sony has done with its playstations. The specs are better than the 8700+ as well as the addition of the HDMI port.

However, with the release of the 7700 , it makes me wonder what's coming down the pipe from Benq with the Matterhorn chip. What will the MSRP on this thing be?

Steve

Originally posted by stephenfrancis
...The specs are better than the 8700+ as well as the addition of the HDMI port...

I've been following this thread with interest. Could you please post those specs like in a comparison table?

The 8700+ is a top seller and a top rated pj. Have they found a way to build a better pj for less money and still keep their margin? I don't think it wise to build a "cheaper" unit to replace the 8700+ The 7800 has an MSRP of $5495. The prices of the 7800 are now at a point that I believe it will soon become extinct. They may have already stopped producing it. To me, it doesn't make good business sense to offer so many HT projectors.

I wonder if Benq will introduce temporal dithering and remove spatial dithering (opposite of the 8700/+) in order to not over sell the PE7700 in favor of leaving some sales based on higher-PQ for their upcoming 8720.

Anyone know when the PE7700 is expected? Any dealers know this?

Man this is terrible. I was about to purchase the AE700 until I read this thread! What's a guy to do?

I've read in another forum that the cheaper price of the PE7700 versus the 8700+ comes at the expense of its scaler. Somebody insisted that the scaler in the PE7700 was not as good as the 8700+. I'm still trying to figure out how they could come up this conclusion since it hasn't been released yet. I guess this will be an area that we should pay attention to.

At the same time, if you're running all 720p sources, does it matter?

Steve

Strange, I thought the really expensive PE8720 was the replacement for the PE8700+.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Strange, I thought the really expensive PE8720 was the replacement for the PE8700+.
I believe the PE7700 and the PE8720 are both replacements for the PE8700+, each targeting different price points. But who really cares?

There are some folks seriously interested in this projector.

Steve

I own the 8700 and spent about 40 min viewing the 7700 at CES.

I was very impressed with the 7700, especially with HD material. It's impossible to do a real comparison unless the two projectors are set up side by side and display the same test signal, but for the price, I would easily recommend the 7700 to friends who are on a smaller budget but want a big-screen experience.

The 7700 includes BenQ's "Senseye" image enhancement technology, and, at least based on the split screen demo using the 8720, Senseye appeared to result in a real improvement in picture quality.

The BenQ rep kept asking me if the 7700 looked as good as the 8700. Again, my subjective impression of the 7700, based on demo material designed to show the projector at its best, is not conclusive, but I have to admit that it was hard for me to say that it looked "worse" than the 8700.

I did get the sense that BenQ might be looking to just go with the 7700 and 8720 (which is a very impressive projector -- big and expensive -- but impressive).

i was just looking on projectorpeople using the side by side comparison chart and it said the 8700 was discontinued??????

The 8700 is still around and will be for awhile, but the plan is to replace it with the 8720 and 7700. The BenQ people as much as said that at CES. I was not impressed with the 7700 at CES, but I only saw it with the "Hero" DVD, which is far from reference material. I'm reserving judgment until I can get one to test.

They used a region 1 DVD of Hero as the demo material for the PE7700!?! Hmm, sounds like they were trynig to make it look bad. The transfer for R1 is suppose to be awful, and trynig to make a 720P panel shine with <<720P is a joke. They should have brought an $800 PC with WM9 HD test clips.

When I saw the 7700, they were showing a 1080i DVHS demo tape of the usual colorful flowers, bright scenery, pretty girls, etc. I thought the HD material looked very good.

Again, it would have been interesting to put on something like the DVE montage (which I've seen a million times) to do a comparison and to look for artifacts or other issues.

They did pop in the "Last Samuri" DVD. Based on the picture, I would guess that it was 480p -- not even upconverted to 720p. It's always hard to see HD first and then go back to DVD.

I hope there aren't any major flaws that show up with this one. Getting a higher quality 720P DLP projector that probably streets south of $3K would be a great thing. It would probably be all it takes to get me to upgrade my HS10.

Here's to hoping...

Originally posted by HTCrazy
I hope there aren't any major flaws that show up with this one. Getting a higher quality 720P DLP projector that probably streets south of $3K would be a great thing. It would probably be all it takes to get me to upgrade my HS10.
What lower quality current 720P HD2+ DLP projector streets south of $3K at this time? I was under the impression this was the first 720P HD2+ DLP projector MSRP-ing in this forum.

For those that don't know, here are the contenders (or soon to be contenders) in the "lo-end" HD2+ arena:

Benq PE7700 - MSRP: $3299
Toshiba TDP-MT700 - MSRP: $3499
Sharp XV-Z2000 - MSRP: $4499

I'm sure there will be others.

The Z2000 has been released and streets are close to the magical $3k mark. When the Toshiba and Benq come out, there's gonna be some serious competition.

Steve

I am in a similar boat as several of you. I always liked the 8700+ but did not want to spend that much on a PJ. Even tho the street prices are around the high 3's it was still almost double the closest alternative which I thought was the Panny 700.

I have decided to wait but my thoughts are now comparing the 8700+ vs the 7700. I am wondering if I should wait until the 8700+ gets discountinued and the price drops and pull the trigger on that machine (hopefully will fall into the high 2's and low 3's. Or, pick up a 7700 at a similar street price.

What are your thoughts? 7700 or 8700+? I am wondering how these 2 will compare. Price? Function?

My understanding is that the 7700 and 8700 share the same TI chip and the 7700 has the "Senseye" software, which the 8700+ does not.

Whether the optics, processor, etc., of the 8700 trumps the 7700, no one can say for sure until someone can line them up side by side and run some meaningful test patterns to get a more objective comparison. Without quantifiable data, comments such as mine that it "looked pretty good" are meaningless other than to suggest that the 7700 might have potential.

If you can stand the delay, don't make a purchase until the 7700 comes out and you can eyeball one for yourself with some revealing demos or test patterns.

My personal opinion is that the 7700 will be the projector to beat in its price class; however, I did not get to see the Toshiba like HiHo Steve.

I guess the good news is that prices are coming down and features are going up.

Originally posted by stephenfrancis
...here are the contenders...

Benq PE7700 - MSRP: $3299
Toshiba TDP-MT700 - MSRP: $3499
Sharp XV-Z2000 - MSRP: $4499

...there's gonna be some serious competition....

I think so too! :)

I've been participating in a similar thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492075&perpage=20&pagenumber=1) that although named "BenQ PE8700+ or Sharp XV-Z2000 or Sony VPL-HS51" ended up discussing these four:

Toshiba MT-700 (1000 L, 2000:1, 6 segs. x5, HDMI)

BenQ 8700+ (1000 L, 2500:1, 6 segs. x5, DVI)

Sharp XV-2K (1200 L, 2500:1, ? segs. x?, DVI)

BenQ 7700 (1000 L, 2500:1, 6 segs. x?, HDMI)

The Toshiba was highly recommended by a forum member and owner of an 8700+ who shared his experience at CES with us here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4950177#post4950177).

I placed a question mark on the specs I haven't been able to find.

The only factual difference between the 8700 and 7700 that the BenQ folks would admit to (to me anyway)... other than the senseye that Kevin discussed is that instead of buying the internal scaler from an outside source they are now building their own chip-set for scaling/de-interlacing.

I spent quite a bit of time with the 7700 on several different occasions during the show... I definitely agree that the transfer of Hero they were showing was a "woeful" choice... it certainly did not show off the capabilities of the projector.

Kevin is an experienced calibrator... (Now ISF... way to go Kevin) and so his advice should be taken seriously... you can never really accurately compare two projectors unless you can get them in the same environment with both of them properly calibrated.

However, the likelihood of that ever happening is somewhere between slim and none! Numerous folks have put on "shootouts" and have all discovered the incredible difficulty in just getting all of the projectors in the same place at the same time... then trying to find someone experienced to get them properly set up for comparison... now were really talking tough!.. and a huge investment in time and energy. You may never have that opportunity... I traveled across several states and two countries trying to accomplish this and was not sucessful. I was however, able to view several different projectors in the home theaters of the individual owners, which gave me a much better understanding of what the various levels of the projector world provided... none of them were comparable (a 9"CRT up for 1080p, a projector external scaler setup ..Dwin TV3, and then new Optoma H30), but they all allowed me to put a face on the things I was reading here on AVS. Then when I attended the shootouts I was able to actually "see" some things that made a difference to me... none of the projectors was actually set up "properly" but everyone did the best they could with what the time and resources they had available.

Trying to get the "best" projector is probably like trying to have perfectly pure water, or the "best" computer... any time you can actually buy/build a computer and take it home... it will only be the top dog for about a month till the next fastest one takes it's place!

My pathetic advice is to see as many as you can and then buy the best technology you can afford that will work in the space you have available. Personally I could have lived with any of the projectors I viewed.. but for my little theater 8 months ago I picked what I felt was the best-bang-for-the-buck ... that day.

May the Force be with YOU!

Steve

I, too, eagerly await reviews of the 7700. I was, for price reasons, about to jump on the Panny 700 bandwagon. However, I really love my Samsung DLP TV, and don't see rainbows unless I try, so I'd prefer to go with a DLP-based unit. Sure, the 700U is a GREAT value, but there are too many concerns about VB issues (though I know this varies person to person, unit to unit) and it just isn't DLP performance (though we'll see!).

I say bring on sub-$3K street prices for 720P DLP units!

Deleted by me.

Talking about street pricing will get this thread deleted. Please refer to the warning thread.

wow a Sharp XV-2k fighter. Where is NEC in all of this? Whip out the HT2000 big boy!!!!

The best info out there at the CES show, positions the 7700 as a slightly less expensive projector than the 8700+. The talk was of a street price between $3300 and $3500 (at least to start). Remember the low end of pricing on the 8700+ is about $3995, and six months ago it was definitely around $4500. So the expected street on the 7700 fits in line with normal price erosion.

The 8720 however is a step up projector. It has a wider range on its lens, claims a contrast ratio of something like 5000:1 (I don't remember - but it was up there, certainly over 4000:1).

I believe the 8720 goes to an 8? segment wheel, and it has optical lens shift - (at least vertical). However, the bad news - the 8720 is expected to be a major step up in price, I heard $6000 street mentioned although I hope that is high. The word there was that it definitely was a much more expensive projector than the 8700+.

I didn't really spend time with the 7700 at the show, but the 8720 looked very good. There did seem to be some artifact problems but as this was an early prototype, you have to expect that.

Probably the most significant thing to keep in mind, is the delivery date mentioned is March. BenQ has repeatedly been months late on most of their business projectors and HT models. This could easily be a product that we won't see until May or later. Hey the 8710 was supposed to be out last spring, and it never materialized at all (with its 7 segment wheel), instead a bit later the 8700 got the HD2+ chip, and the 8700+ designation (even though the boxes still say 8700.

Here is the screen shot that I took from CES...

Sorry I don't know how to take a picture...
But at lease here is some idea....

If you see it in action, it looks waaayyy better than the screenshot ...

Baja

I thought the list price for the Benq was $3299, for the Toshiba MT-700 $34pp, and the Sharp XV-Z2000 $3999. I thought all of these were published already.

I'm curious about the Toshiba having 2000:1 CR while the Benq is 2500:1. That's quite a difference for two projectors that may be the same internally.

The Sony had a marketed CR of 6000:1, but that is with a white point of >9000K (gains maximized). I wonder if the marketing departments for Benq & Toshiba are basing their figures on different set of white points. It could also be due to optics, I suppose.

i was just looking on projectorpeople using the side by side comparison chart and it said the 8700 was discontinued??????

__________________

Couldn't find where it said that it was discontinued, but suspect they were referring to the "old" 8700 - with the HD2 chip, and not the HD2+ chip based 8700+. BenQ says 8700+ projectors are it, for now, with product still coming in from Taiwan through April.

If the 7700 is supposed to be at least as good as the 8700+ (speculation), and at a lower price, then BenQ will likely holld off shipping it until they run out of the 8700+. That was what they did with the 8700/8700+ transition. I recall that they were shipping the old 8700's then one day - sorry - all gone, order the 8700+.

Well, the PE7700 & PE8720 are coming. Why would they continue the PE8700+?

I got the distinct impression at CES that they were trying to decide if they would continue to market the PE8700+. My guess is that they want something to fall price-wise between the 7700 and the 8720. Maybe they will do something to juice up the 8700+ (Senseye, better optics, etc.) to distinguish it from the 7700.

That would be amazing. Three projectors with the same DMD? Or, is the DMD in the 8720 different?

Ferret..........

My understanding is that the DMD in the 8720 has the same number of MicroMirrors.. but is a completely different chip.

Steve

The 8700+ is definitely going away, according to BenQ. The strategy seems to be that the 7700 while different, is the logical replacement - it will be less expensive, have some fancy new stuff (sens-eye, etc.), but possibly won't be as good in other areas (no doubt depending on the electronics they use - SG, Pixelworks, their own, Faroudja, etc.). The 8720 will be higher end. Lens shift, best of everything (I think they said Faroudja in the 8720, but I can't recall).

The 8720 is definitely scheduled to be more expensive. From everything I have heard the best street prices should be under $6K, and who knows, maybe as low as $5K (but probably not to start.

Also remember - intial quantites are likely to be very limited for the first 60 days or so (on both models). That is typical for the industry (Panasonic AE700, AE500, Sanyo Z3, Z2, etc. when they first shipped, with most customers having to wait around a month to get delivery from order time.

In summary, the 7700 may in some ways be not quite as good as the 8700, but it will almost "split the difference in price" between the 8700+'s current price and that of the Sanyo Z3/Panny 700u.

Which should really make Sony nervous - their 51 sells close to $3K and likely will take a beating.

Remember we are only supposed to use MSRP in our specific price discussions...

I would like this discussion to continue and don't want the folks in charge to close the thread.

Of course street prices will always be lower than MSRP... and when I was at CES they did not even have an MSRP for the 8720 yet. They were trying to float an MSRP in the $10k range, but they admitted that it would probably be lower as they have not set final pricing...

I think this is marketing jockeying for position... they did not want to set their price's before everyone else did.

Now that InFocus has announced an MSRP of $6,999 for their dark3 powered 7210 I imagine we will be hearing from BenQ with a "real" MSRP for the 8720..... and I would be amazed if it was not lower than InFocus.. maintaining the tradition of being the best "bang-for-the-buck" projectors!

They did release the MSRP of $3,299 for the 7700 at CES however. If you consider the past trends of street pricing then this should be a very competitive product indeed!

BenQ's history of offering a great deal for the money is why there is currently an 8700+ hanging in my theater... I am excited about the future.

Greetings,

You are right I forgot about the ban on pricing. Although typical street prices are far more useful, I understand the reasons for not quoting prices. When I write the reviews for my website, I always deal in "typical street prices" because MSRP varies so much that it becomes irrelevant. Case in point, the BenQ 8700+ has a MSRP of $8000, but as we all know sells for a fraction of that at most online resellers. It's not rare for a projector to sell for 1/2 to 2/3 of MSRP, it just depends on the Brand and their strategy.

BenQ, when they launched their little 5120 HT projector in December, set an MSRP that was relatively close to the street price, by comparison.

My guess is that going forward their MSRP will be close to their MAP price (minimum advertised price), unlike before, and in turn, closer to street. If I dare, the BenQ MAP on the 8700+ (BenQ publishes both MSRP and MAP), is $2000 below the $7999 MSRP on the 8700+, and that is huge, considering that MAP is well above, and doesnt reflect street price!

So, my intel leads me to believe that the street price on the 7700 will not be significantly below list price.

I live about 15 miles from BenQ's HQ in Irvine CA., and I expect to get a close look at both products before they ship, hopefully long enough to do full reviews on them. When I have had a chance, the info will be posted on my site; http://www.ProjectorReviews.com. (It's pretty new, and still getting organized, the database being completed, so forgive the flaws.)

I've really just started following threads on AVS, and am not sure if I am even supposed to mention my site, but it is strictly a projectorcentral.com site, and it doesn't sell product., and people are always referring to Evan and projector central.

However it turns out, the 7700 looks to be a great value (unless they screw something up), and the 8720, who knows - perhaps it will be good enough to drive the higher end folks, like Runco/Vidikron (who's lower end machines are based on the 8700+), Marantz, and Yamaha, completely crazy. That may not help the under $4k shoppers, but wouldn't it be nice to have a "next step up" for not much more?

Art.... I agree it would really be nice to be able to use street pricing in the discussions..., but oh well... there are rules and if we are going to make use their playground.. I suppose we should follow their rules!

I love the fact that their are companies like BenQ that are willing to shake things up a bit... in 2003 Optoma just about gave the mainstream boys "heart-attacks" when they announced the pricing on their H76... pity they were not able to actually deliver the product in time... but they sure did have the big boys attention for a few months!

Now BenQ seems to have taken over the role of keeping the other guys honest.. ( as I work for Southwest Airlines I guess I sort of identify with this role!) .. not that BenQ's projectors are perfect or without flaws, but they certainly seem to be willing to provide a lot for our dollars... and heck until I find a zillionaire uncle isn't that what it's all about?

My concern with the 7700 from what I saw at CES is the scaler/de-interlacer they are now using (in house chips). To my untrained and uncalibrated eyes it did not appear to do as good a job as the one in my 8700+. Whereas the Toshiba MT-700 whose case appears to be identical to the 7700 (sans BenQ logo) is using a Faroudja chipset and in the CES demo looked quite a bit better than the 7700.

On the 8720 front... as I mentioned I would not be surprised at all to see BenQ undercut the pricing announcement from InFocus.... isn't this a great time to be interested in HT... it just keeps getting better and better!!!

HiHoStevo,

Front projector newbie/wannabee here... If I feed this projector a 720P digital signal from a good-to-excellent DVD player (or an HTPC for that matter which is what do to my CRT rptv), isn't the internal scaler of the projector bypassed? I prefer that BenQ chose a less expensive scaler and is reflecting the cost savings in the price.

That is my understanding............. yes.

I do not know what other things they have changed...

but as I have said each time I was asked... IMHO the PQ on the 7700 is not as good as the 8700+.

However, this could have been the source material they were feeding it at CES... you cannot tell for sure until you have the production unit in a "real" theater enviornment and properly calibrated... that is when the truth will be known.

Probably the biggest unfortunate is that of its dealership/distribution for me. I know of no one that sells the Benq locally, which means demonstrating the equipment to me is impossible unless you are an end user that happens to have one. And even when there are dealers locally, there is a growing trend to sell demo units or take them home, so potential buyers looking for auditions are out in the cold.

I feel your pain..............

I went from Vegas to the Canuck Shootout II up in Canada to be able to play with one first hand before I bought it!

So, its early March for the PE7700. Anyone remember what Toshiba said would be the date for their MT-700?

Anyone have an update on 7700 availability? March is right around the corner!

I was just approved as a BenQ dealer. I'll make a call a see what I can find out. In my area, $2,000 to $3,000 seems to be the most common acceptable price point for a home theater display device, so this will make a lot of people happy.

Originally posted by Kevin R. Anderson
I'll make a call a see what I can find out. In my area, $2,000 to $3,000 seems to be the most common acceptable price point for a home theater display device, so this will make a lot of people happy. This is based on what research you or someone else conducted?

This is just based on conversations with people who have asked me about getting a home theater for their family room or basement. Most have seen my set up, which is a calibrated BenQ 8700, but when I tell them the price, they say they only want to spend half of that.

It is probably not a surprise that for many, the most important feature is that the picture is big and bright, and if you can accomplish that with a business LCD projector for $1,000, why spend more.

I spend a lot of time trying to educate and explain why, in the long term, they are being penny wise and pound foolish.

Well, hopefully Salt Lake isn't a gravitational point for the pound-foolish.

Originally posted by TheFerret
So, its early March for the PE7700. Anyone remember what Toshiba said would be the date for their MT-700?

I think the info that came from CES was that Toshiba's shipping date for the MT-700 was tentatively March.

There are plenty of folks out there who will spend more than $2000 on a projector. One of the dealers I work with sells Sanyo Z3, Panny AE700u, and the BenQ 8700+. (Also lower end models, which I won't get into now).

Over the last couple of months the dealer says they have been averaging a little over 100 units a month between the three models. They say their mix is about 80% Z3 and 700u combined, and 20% for 8700+.

A 720 res DLP like the 7700 should do extremely well, I imagine that some of that 80% would have been candidates for the 7700, based on its anticipated price.

With the exception of the Sony 51 (which is still an LCD projector with 720 res) there is a vaccuum in terms of popular HT projectors between the price points of the 720 res LCD projectors and the 720 res DLPs which sell for about twice the price. -a

Update on delivery - spoke with Benq sales management today. 2nd half of April is their best date right now - at least it won't be sooner, could be later.

Also I was told that there have been only 2 7700 prototypes in the US, they were brought in before CES and they do not perform as well as production units are expected to. (That makes sense if you consider that it will be about 4 months from the time the prototypes arrived here, until production units ship.)

Originally posted by presenter
Also I was told that there have been only 2 7700 prototypes in the US, they were brought in before CES and they do not perform as well as production units are expected to.

Thanks for the info, Art. That explains why I was less than impressed with the 7700 at CES. Looking forward to checking out a production unit.

Does anyone have anything solid on the March release for the Toshiba MT700?

I've been told they will be shipping to dealers by mid-March.

Hey Mike.................

Don't hold your breath!!:D

Steve

Don't hold your breath!!

Well, I'm new to this technology and have been very patient....so far. I finally have my little dream built except for the most important thing: The Projector. So, right after being shown a Yamaha LCD that a dealer tried to sell me for 5k, I was told by others to investigate DLP, so I did. When I heard about the Sharp XV-Z2000 coming out at the end of November with the HD2+, I was counseled to wait. So when in late December, the Sharp finally showed up, it was suggested that I wait until after the CES to see what everyone was saying. In late January, I was told it might be a good idea to wait until March when a Toshiba and BenQ unit would be out for less money and just as much punch as the Sharp. So now the BenQ is projected for late April and the Toshiba is no sure bet in early March.

So, I've decided to pull the trigger by mid March. If there is a Toshiba out there, I will decide between that and the Sharp. If Toshiba is dragging it's heels, then it's the Sharp. I gotta fish or cut bait sooner or later...LOL. Anyway, I am running out of breath.;)

Charlie I feel your pain.............

I was "researching" and reading from late summer '03 until I finally pulled the trigger in late April of '04.

I had decided on the BenQ 8710 at last year's CES... which was supposed to be out in February according to the folks at CES. However due to contractual limitations (I am told) the 8710 was never offered. Instead BenQ slipped the HD2+ chip in to the normal production line of the 8700's.. So after much traveling, comparing, and anguish I finally pulled the trigger! Is my purchase the "be all and end all?" Nope... it is like trying to buy the "best" computer... first you have to find the one that closely matches your needs and then jump in... there will always be something better and faster next week!

Steve

Thanks for the sympathy. One thing's for sure....I ain't rich....so no bleeding edge, Darkchip 3 for me. I'll be quite happy with an HD2+

Charlie - good luck

With BenQ building the engine for the Toshiba, I suspect that the two will hit the market within a couple of weeks of each other.

The bright spot may well be that both may well be reviewed in the next two weeks or so.

I have been led to believe that I will be able to get my hands on a 7700 in March, that is basically pre-production and virtually identical to the production units that they will be shipping, (as opposed to the very early version at CES.

If both ship in April, you may want to wait the extra few weeks. In this case, there doesn't seem to be any talk of anything else coming out soon that will challenge them in the $3K-$4K street price range.

Of course just to further confuse you, the BenQ 8700+ is now apparently selling at all time low prices - about $600 less than end of December web prices.

One thing though, whichever you choose, they all promise to be excellent choices, and I suspect that once you bring one home, it will look fantastic, and you won't have the others to compare against, you will just love it.

We sometimes forget that it is the content we are after, and not the projector that brings it to us. No matter which you end up with - a DVD with merely good production qualities - on the best of competing projectors, won't look as great as the DVD with the very production qualities, on the least of the projectors. (And then there's native 720p DVD's in our future too!)

Within the group you are looking at, each will no doubt be superior at something - be it color accuracy, brightness, ability to resolve details in dark areas, etc. Real satisfication will come, once you install your choice, to enjoy it and not worry whether you chose the best, or whether next year's model will be better.

I went from the BenQ 8700 to the 8700+ last fall, and despite all the hype about the HD2+ over the HD2 in terms of contrast - there is very little difference, if someone snuck into my house and swapped out my + for the older model, I doubt I would ever notice it, and if I did, it would not be on a typical DVD let alone HDTV.

And whatever you choose next month, 3-4 years from now you'll be able to buy something for half the price that will be superior. The real question will be - will you even care. My guess is that with any of these, once you get settled in, you will be really satisfied, and will be able to move on to other things (like the perfect sound system).

Good luck and enjoy! -a

Originally posted by presenter
I have been led to believe that I will be able to get my hands on a 7700 in March, that is basically pre-production and virtually identical to the production units that they will be shipping, (as opposed to the very early version at CES.
Have you heard anything you can share about the schedule for its big brother, the 8720?

Thanks,
Darin

If both ship in April, you may want to wait the extra few weeks. In this case, there doesn't seem to be any talk of anything else coming out soon that will challenge them in the $3K-$4K street price range.


Well, I will wait and see, but I still plan on pulling the mid March trigger, unless I can get a solid date for the Toshiba or BenQ. I don't think I can wait until the end of April though.

I have a friend with a three year old Dwin on a Draper 96" 4:3 screen and anybody that has seen it is blown away by it merely because they've never seen this type of set up outside of an actual theater. So, I have a really good feeling that whether I buy the 2k, the MT700, or the 7700, (short of defects, etc.) I will be very content. It is just a matter of "Do I want to wait to increase my list of choices (and savings)?"

A big thanks for the pep talks, encouragement, and advice. :D

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Hey Mike.................

Don't hold your breath!!:D

Steve

LOL. Not a chance, Steve. I never bet on anything I'm told about release dates. :D

I've been told that the MT700s will be shipping on 3-11, so we'll find out soon enough how far that's off. It doesn't seem likely that it would be out before the 7700, but stranger things have happened.

Yes, I am looking forward to some "experienced" folks actually getting these in controlled enviornments where we can get some "real" data and comparisons... It is so hard to do realistic comparisons from a trade-show viewing.

I feel your pain also, A while back I was sold on the IF4805 then I heard about this PE7800 for about 600 bucks more and I said OH OH OH I want that one, then I was told to wait just as you were, I will probably still end up with the 7800 unless the 8700 comes down dramatically which I doubt, none the less I also am sittin here waiting with money that has already burned a hole in my pocket and has now set my leg of fire, I also plan to pull the trigger and order in the next 30 days, its been 3 years since I viewed my first FP and decided I had to have one, so whats another 30 days? 30 days of agonizing anticipation thats what it is....LOL

art - any luck getting a pre-production sample in hand for some evaluation? This pj is still number one on my interest list, and I can't wait to hear more about it...

It seems the Scandinavians are getting it first ;)

Discussion on Swedish forum (http://www.component.se/forum/index.php?showtopic=2269)

Spec sheet (http://www.component.se/docs/products/benq_final_spec_sheet_pe7700_0217.doc)

Note noise is 26/29 dB whereas MT700 is 29/31. :confused:

There is also more information at a Norwegian site (http://www.hjemmekino.no/database/projektorinfo.aspx?katalognr=64)

i wish they would release this dang thing, I was set on the 7800 but I think now I might as well wait and see what I can pick up a 7700 for.....

Inquiring minds what to know that the new low price of the AE700 will do the price of this unit and the Toshiba's. It can only effect downward pressure, wouldn't you think?

Inquiring minds what to know that the new low price of the AE700 will do the price of this unit and the Toshiba's. It can only effect downward pressure, wouldn't you think?

I certainly hope so, the Panny may even drop more once these are released thus driving them down a tad more, If I can pick a PE7700 up for 2600 or less I will without a doubt buy one

Bieng a person who has absolutely no patience for anything this is driving me nuts

The Toshiba TDPMT700 is arriving early next week according to the other thread.

Art - Are your sources still telling you mid-April for the Benq?

Greetings,

I was up at BenQ yesterday (3/11) for a meeting so here's the latest word - but - experience says, seeing is believing, so when the first one hits a dealer's warehouse, they are available - until that day happens, I aways expect more delays.

First, they have received their review units from Taiwan. I am scheduled to receive one before the end of this coming week.

Next - BenQ also said that their first shipment will land before 3/31. Once they hit, though, as is typical for new products, there will be a slight delay, for quality control, possible packaging issues, etc. And anywhere from 2-5 days to get to dealers depending on where they are located. BenQ's are landing in California.

Bottom line, I was told their larger dealers should have units to sell by April 6-9. In other words, 4 weeks maybe a few days less. As I would expect to also be true for Toshiba, supplies will be limited for the first month or more.

As to the Toshiba arrival date, I didn't check the other thread yet, but again there could be a week - two between when they clear customs and the first dealers have them. If dealers were getting them next week, they'd already have landed in the US, and one dealer I talk to should have heard that.

Sounds like a horse race that Toshiba will win by a week or so

I'm excited. While my 8700+ is ceiling mounted I have my system set up so that I can position the 7700 on my coffee table directly below. I can switch back and forth between the two in seconds. I will review using DVD, a JVC D-VHS deck, and watching cable driven HDTV (Leno, Discovery HD, etc.)

BTW BenQ says the 7700 will outperform the 8700+ on both contrast and due to their Sense-Eye, which I still haven't investigated.

I promise to post back here as soon as I have received the 7700 and done my very first look (24 hours), and I will post a preminary review within days on my website.

Hang in there! -art

Art, the MT700s are here in the U.S. (not just review samples) and I'll have one on Monday. Maybe we could jump start that comparison a little. ;)

Originally posted by KramerTC
Inquiring minds what to know that the new low price of the AE700 will do the price of this unit and the Toshiba's. It can only effect downward pressure, wouldn't you think?

Greetings KramerTC,

So far the only difference in price that I have seen is the new $200 rebate. I don't really think that it will affect 7700 and Toshiba pricing.

Rather Panny's rebate, may be more the other way around. When the 8700+ was commanding almost $2000 more than the 700u, it left a huge vaccuum price wise, with only the Sony HS51 (not my favorite thing) in the middle.

So it was a huge price difference. But even with the rebate, the spread between the Panny, and the BenQ 7700 will be more like $1200 or so.

And, while the Panny is a great machine for the $$$ it is definitely not a match for the 8700+ (or 8700). So if the 7700 as promised is even better, I think a lot of potential 700u buyers willl dig deep and instead score a 7700.

Which will raise other questions - ie. Do you get a Panny and a Stewart Greyhawk, for example, or a BenQ 7700 and a Dalite with one of their high contrast surfaces such as the Da-Mat. The Stewart is the slightly better screen, but a good $500 more. So that could cut the difference between these two potential projector/screen combinations, to maybe $600. (I suspect I'd opt for the better projector....

BTW, as a side note, for my own installation, I had about a 100 foot run from electronics to projector (two story ceiling... projector hangs down 6 feet...).

Ahh, my point. I wanted to run DVI as well as component despite the long run. I settled on the DVI extender system from Gefen. It uses two CAT5 runs (one for signal, one for power to the receiver by the projector.

It works great! No problems at all. The Gefen setup is $500, no more than the "premium" 20 meter DVI and HDMI cables out there.

Art.............

As you and Mike are both in San Clemente, it would certainly be nice if you guys could get the comparison going next week when he gets his MT-700 demo!!

If not Mike...... you are welcome to bring it up to Las Vegas and we can do the same type of comparison against my 8700+.

Any of you guys know if BenQ is making any plans for a new PJ based around the Matterhorn chip?

HiHoStevo,

Art owns a 8700+ so he'll be making direct comparisons to it.

Originally posted by niggenz
Any of you guys know if BenQ is making any plans for a new PJ based around the Matterhorn chip?

There's nothing else in 576p scheduled for later this year.

Perhaps they will have something to show there, but BenQ asks dealers to forecast sales out to year end, and while 8720 and some not yet announced biz projectors are on the list, there is nothing to replace the 7800.

The next projector (after the 7700) will be the Darkchip3 based 8720, and I don't expect to see that until July.

-art

Oops,

In my email above I said "Perhaps they will have something to show there" I was referring to Infocomm in June. But more likely I wouldn't expect to see anything else new above 480p before Cedia in September.

Anyone knows if there will be a Lens Shift on the Benq 7700 ? I've read in previous posts that the 8720 will have it but nothing on the 7700.

Thanks for any answer ! 8)

I do not know for sure............

But I would suggest that the odds are about 99.9999999% against the 7700 having "lens shift."

Lens shift I believe is one of the "nice features" normally found on the "high end" projectors.

The PE7700 does not have lens shift.

The much more expensive 8720 (coming in July?) with the Darkchip3, will have lens shift. -art

Originally posted by presenter
The PE7700 does not have lens shift.

The much more expensive 8720 (coming in July?) with the Darkchip3, will have lens shift. -art

OK, so no lens shift for the 7700, but how about the throw? I couldn't work with the ultra short throw 8700. I am hoping the 7700 will have a bit longer throw or a greater zoom range. Any comments?

Tom

Originally posted by TCroly
OK, so no lens shift for the 7700, but how about the throw? I couldn't work with the ultra short throw 8700. I am hoping the 7700 will have a bit longer throw or a greater zoom range. Any comments?

Tom

Looks like you may be OK. The short distance is 100" diagonal at 9.8 feet. However the 7700 specs say it has a 1.37:1 ratio on the lens, up from 1.2:1 on the 8700+. Therefore you should be able to place it an extra 1.5 or so further back depending on your screen size. If correct: the long side for a 100" would be:
9.8 feet x 1.37 = 13.46 feet. that is definitely longer than the 8700+.
-art

Throw distance is 1.36x - 1.83x screen width.

Does that mean that for a 106" screen you have to have the PJ within 14' of the screen? No wonder people love the zoom on the Panny - that thing can be 21' back at the same image size! I'm I totally missing the point?

RDaneel,

I had some trouble with the units, but your calculations seem correct.

D'oh... not what I wanted to hear ;)

Hanging the PJ right over the couch isn't ideal in my room...

A 14' throw distance to produce a 92" wide (106" diagonal) would be perfect for my table mount set up. So I wait anxiously for this release. If the street price comes in at less than $3000, I might have a new projector in my future...

Tom

Hoping that Art will chime in and let us know if he received the 7700 from Benq.

Since the price of the MT700 are so low I'm sure the street prices on the BENQ will be even lower. I'm waiting to do a comparison between the two before I decide to purchase.

Am I correct that the 7700 does NOT have a Faroudja deinterlacing chip? Thank you to anyone who knows.

Originally posted by ChrisW6ATV
Am I correct that the 7700 does NOT have a Faroudja deinterlacing chip? Thank you to anyone who knows.

That's correct. the 7700 is using BenQ's own solution, Senseye.

BTW, from what I was told (and maybe Art can verifiy this) the 7700 should only be availble from BenQ's Home Cinema Partner Program resellers. If so, there are restrictions in price advertising and who will be selling it.

Thank you for the clarification, Mike. I am looking at this model, the Sharp 2000, and the Toshiba 700 to replace an Infocus X1.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
BTW, from what I was told (and maybe Art can verifiy this) the 7700 should only be availble from BenQ's Home Cinema Partner Program resellers. If so, there are restrictions in price advertising and who will be selling it.

If that's the case then it won't be priced as atractively as the MT700. I can't imagine the 7700 being better or worse since they are clones of one another. The scaling may vary on interlaced sources but we buy front projectors to feed them 720P from dvd players, htpcs or hd set tops.

If that's the case then it won't be priced as atractively as the MT700. I can't imagine the 7700 being better or worse since they are clones of one another.
If they are, in fact, clones of one another in performance (rather than just in specs) the 7700 will HAVE to be priced as attractively as the MT700. If it is not, they simply won't sell.

I just got word from my dealer that the PE7700 should be available within the next few weeks. Based on my information, pricing should be competitive with the Toshiba. I'm very anxious to run this through some test patterns on AVIAPro and see how it compares to the 8700.

Here is a link for information on BenQ's Senseye technology: http://benq.us/senseye/

Here is a spec sheet on the PE7700

Originally posted by DonRC
If they are, in fact, clones of one another in performance (rather than just in specs) the 7700 will HAVE to be priced as attractively as the MT700. If it is not, they simply won't sell.

To clarify what I mentioned above, I was talking about restrictions in price advertising, meaning that there would be a minimum advertised price. That's not the same as what it could be sold for, however.

I've very anxious to run this through some test patterns on AVIAPro and see how it compares to the 8700.

That is going to be an interesting comparison, Kevin. I'm also interested in using AviaPro to see how the Senseye deinterlacing compares with the Faroudja on the MT700. Otherwise, I would expect performance to be the same as the MT700.

Greetings all,

I spoke with BenQ management yesterday, and they said their first shipment should hit the US on Monday or Tuesday (yep 3-4 days from now). I expect that it will take a few days to prep the new projectors, that seems to be typical of first shipments of most models (they may have manuals to be added, etc.)
The really good news is that March 31st is end of the quarter for BenQ, so you can be sure they will want to get everything in their inventory shipped out before close of biz that day, including the 7700's.

This bodes well for those in a hurry. The west coast dealers will get product first, since the first shipment will land in S. Cal. The local San Clemente dealer expects to be shipping product by end of week, based on the same info. (See, no dealer names!)
As to Mike's question last week about who will be selling the product, I suspect (but failed to ask) that at least the intial shipment (something like 100 pieces) will almost certainly go out to their half dozen or so direct Home Cinema partners. However, I would be surprised if they didn't also offer the machine to the specialty HT distributors as they have with the 8700 and 7800.

BenQ relies on Ingram Micro (the world's largest computer distributor) as their warehousing and shipping facility, so I would be surprised if they didn't also allow Ingram to sell to approved dealers.

I wouldn't worry to much about price. The typical street prices found on the 8700 are about $300 - $400 above direct dealer cost, and there are enough of them to keep things competitive.

As to MAP, I haven't heard it officially, but $2995 is probably going to be the Minimum Advertised Price allowed by BenQ. (Of course MAP on the 8700+ only recently dropped to $3995, substantially higher than most direct dealers sell it for.

That's why you see the direct dealers advertising bundles with screens, mounts, etc. It allows them to show (more or less) what they are really selling the projector for, instead of a really high MAP price. MAP on the 8700+ was $5999 in Dec, despite the street price being 2/3's of that. That's why on one review site, all the dealers advertised $5999.

I am supposed to be able to pick up my 7700 press eval unit, to review the day after they land - so I'm hoping I'll have it Tuesday. (It's 20 miles to BenQ HQ).

I'll post a quick comparison between the 7700 and 8700 the first night I have the machine. I'll only be able to do DVD, and HD cable, my JVD D-VHS deck died and is out for service. I'll also get a more comprehensive prelim look on my review site, as quickly as possible.

Hang in - we are really close! -art

Originally posted by Kevin R. Anderson
Here is a spec sheet on the PE7700

That spec scares the hell out of me, it says Computer compatibility to
XGA(1024x768).
If that is correct (and I hope it is just a taiwanese typo) you can NOT feed the 7700 with it's native resolution (WXGA 1280x720) ????

For me that would be a big dealbreaker and hope the 8700+ will still be around for awhile.

So if the first of you who is gonna test this new projector will try to feed it WXGA and sees what happens, I would really apreciate the results.

greetz Kjelt

Originally posted by Kjelt
That spec scares the hell out of me, it says Computer compatibility to
XGA(1024x768).
If that is correct (and I hope it is just a taiwanese typo) you can NOT feed the 7700 with it's native resolution (WXGA 1280x720) ????


Kjelt,

Relax, I take it you are using an HTPC? They are specifically talking about standard computer input (HD15), for normal presentations, etc. You'll have all kinds of ways to use the 1280x720 in native. I'm sure you saw the 1280x720 listed under HDTV specs.

It is possible that you might have to go in through the BNC or RCA component adapters, or of course DVI/HDMI, but I'm sure you will not have a problem overall. BenQ sometimes does things a little wierd (like the 8700 not being able do do progressive scan off of the three RCA component jacks, only the BNC's.

But they aren't idiots, so don't worry. I think that spec is there mostly for those of us that also want to surf the web or display standard computer stuff, on our HT systems.

-art

Originally posted by Kjelt
That spec scares the hell out of me, it says Computer compatibility to
XGA(1024x768).
If that is correct (and I hope it is just a taiwanese typo) you can NOT feed the 7700 with it's native resolution (WXGA 1280x720) ????


...actually, why is this a mistake ? XGA, 1024x768, strictly speaking is not the native resolution of the chip. the native has only 720 vertical lines... no ?

Kjelt - this is likely Benq covering their rears. They don't want to cater to the freaks like us that use HTPCs. For me on the light-engine-by-BenQ Toshiba MT700, only 1280x720@59.94Hz would sync over HDMI. 1280x720@60Hz, 1024x768@60Hz, 800x600@60Hz, etc. all would not sync over HDMI. My guess is that the 7700's FW will be similar to the MT700's and will also be limited in what it syncs to.

Originally posted by Kevin R. Anderson
The 7700 includes BenQ's "Senseye" image enhancement technology, and, at least based on the split screen demo using the 8720, Senseye appeared to result in a real improvement in picture quality.

A bit more info about Senseye can be found here. Actually, de-interlacing isn't mentioned but color and contrast improvements are explained. It looks like great technology. The photos of contrast improvement are a little puzzling. It seems like dark levels are raised to a higher light level. I am curious what others think.

www.benq.us/senseye/index.cfm?article=10

Cheers,
Mark

They may be using the Pixelworks deinterlacing they use on some of their other projectors. I also wonder if the Senseye processing is defeatable.

I HOPE the Senseye processing is defeatable.

A "sharpness enhancement engine"??? That sounds like edge enhancement around objects.

The Contrast Enhancement Engine (CEE) is responsible for processing the contrast enhancement of the image signal.

Wow that made me understand the CEE perfectly!

Haha, I know there's a link, but silly definitions like that....sheesh :)

Those awaiting the 7700 - please post the Avia crop loss when you receive your unit.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
They may be using the Pixelworks deinterlacing they use on some of their other projectors. I also wonder if the Senseye processing is defeatable.

Mike........

At CES the BenQ rep told me that for the 7700 they had brought the scaler/de-interlacer "in-house" instead of buying someone else's.

Steve

Yeah, I was told the same thing, but they said it was part of the Senseye processing, which it doesn't seem to be. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
Those awaiting the 7700 - please post the Avia crop loss when you receive your unit.

SpeedyHTPC,

You might want to give a brief overview of the cropping issue you observed on the PE7800 so that people know what to look for in the 7700.

Hi, everyone

The latest on the 7700 deliveries. BenQ has had a change. I'm told that the 120 7700's on the first batch started shipping today from Taiwan, that they are being flown in and dropshipped to a half dozen of their largest direct dealers. That means that they should be "in the stores" on Monday. Fingers crossed! And that means that I won't see my eval unit until next Monday either. -art

I know some internet dealers are already taking pre orders, i just placed one. Price was actually lower what i found on google. send me a msg if you want the info, as i cannot post it here.

This will be my first PJ ever, after going back and forth with HS51 and MT700, i think this will be up to par or better than both of them. (i hope). Its a big investment on something not even out yet. lets see

I spoke to an internet dealer yesterday and he told me they should have them in stock next week and customers should start getting them in mid-april at the latest. He also quoted me a much more expensive price than what I was expecting.

Also - I'm curious what the differences between the Tosh MT700 and the BenQ 7700 will be (besides the scaling circuitry). It'd be nice if it was a better unit (just for competition's sake), but the two are so very similiar....

My local dealer (San Clemente CA) (who sells on the internet), advises that their first batch has shipped (by air) from Taiwan. They expect Friday or Monday.

My understanding is that there are 110 - 120 total units coming - being split up between their 5-6 largest dealers. Whether any from this batch will make it to the distributors that feed the smaller dealers, I don't know. I was told by BenQ on Monday, that the PC distributors - like Ingram, will not have any product on the initial shipments, and after that only a few select dealers that buy from distributors will have any access at all.

As to price? I expect the selling price to be around $2999, which last I heard was probably going to be MAP (Minimum advertised Price). If anyone wants to know which dealers are getting product this, early next week, they can contact me with Private Mail. -art

Of course things keep changing - until they are here, who knows...

It's odd that of the two projectors, Beng & Toshiba, the one with the lower MSRP is starting off with a higher price. I can buy a da-lite manual pulldown screen with the difference.

My thoughts exactly. I'm guessing the street price will be different. I dunno. Can't wait to see.....

Good old MSRP - if ever there was anything truly meaningless in the projector industry its that. The BenQ 8700+ lists for $7995, and you all know what that is selling for.

I just noticed An Epson business projector selling for $1899, with an $4999 list (current model). More telling is MAP pricing, but even that is crazy. When the now discontinued BenQ 8700+ was mostly selling for around $4K, MAP (minimum advertised price) was $5995. That's why everyone advertises bundles - so they would give away screen, mount cables and the kitchen sink to indicate to people what the projector's real street price was.

-art

Originally posted by KramerTC
It's odd that of the two projectors, Beng & Toshiba, the one with the lower MSRP is starting off with a higher price. I can buy a da-lite manual pulldown screen with the difference.

KramerTC - a quick note on the screens. If you have the budget get the sturdier Dalite Type C, the B is pretty basic. Also spring for tensioning if you are going over 100". And since you are looking at the 7700 or toshiba, I'd suggest that you go with the HC CinemaVision if available with the pull down. That's Dalite's closest to the Stewart Firehawk, which would be my first recommendation, but expensive.

Do we need to be careful with the $$$ talk? I think its harmless but I've seen trigger fingers on the "delete thread" button before :) And I like this thread a lot!

Sorry about that - my discussion was relating to MSRP issues. I specifically avoided mentioning any current model products. From what I gather, anyone wants to ask someone about specific pricing they should be using private mail?
-art

Originally posted by presenter
KramerTC - a quick note on the screens. If you have the budget get the sturdier Dalite Type C, the B is pretty basic. Also spring for tensioning if you are going over 100". And since you are looking at the 7700 or toshiba, I'd suggest that you go with the HC CinemaVision if available with the pull down. That's Dalite's closest to the Stewart Firehawk, which would be my first recommendation, but expensive.

I'm planning on a Model C HCMW and if I feel bold enough I may spring for an electric tensioned model from Da-Lite... the more I read about screens (and considering that I don't have a projector thus no real first hand experience) I'm leaning towards a matte white for its neutraility. If go electric tensioned I'd go for Da-Mat at 110'' diagonal. What do you think? Too dim?

Originally posted by KramerTC
I'm planning on a Model C HCMW and if I feel bold enough I may spring for an electric tensioned model from Da-Lite... the more I read about screens (and considering that I don't have a projector thus no real first hand experience) I'm leaning towards a matte white for its neutraility. If go electric tensioned I'd go for Da-Mat at 110'' diagonal. What do you think? Too dim?

If you are dying for an electric, and are willing to forego high contrast you can get an Elite brand motorized screen for under $400 - with remote.

They are actually very nice, and amazingly priced, but strictly Matte White. (Elite comes out of China, thus the low pricing). -art

My thoughts exactly. I'm guessing the street price will be different. I dunno. Can't wait to see.....

Without going into much detail I would not bank on the 7700 having a lower street than the Toshiba ;)

Kramer

I am using the 8700+ on a 110" piece of blackout fabric, with 1100 hours on the bulb I am just now starting to wish I had a screen with a bit of "gain"... so my guess is that the 7700 will be just fine on a "real screen." Personally I think I would pop for the Carada Brilliant White..., but that is a fixed not pull down screen.

I'm forced to go with a pull down screen because the room isn't dedicated to HT and the screen will be in front of bookshelves.

The reason I'm thinking of going with a no-gain screen is because I have a 64'' CRT RPTV and I experience eye fatigue sometimes when I watch two movies in a row. My tv was ISF calibrated and I also used DVE so it is a fairly dim picture. But then again I've no idea how dim or bright a 110'' diagonal matte white would be for me. The only way to find out is going to have to be by trial by fire. I have large samples from da-lite but w/o a projector and no prior front projector experience...

Regarding price: limited distribution from Benq to get dealers to have this unit on their showrooms does nothing for me. The only AV dealer in town with front projection is Tweeter and they only have a Yamaha LCD on display. If it's priced higher than the Toshiba then I'll have to vote with my wallet.

Kramer............

Consider this..........

Buy a piece of "blackout" fabric from Joann's Fabrics.... you can get a piece 96"x54" and hang it from your bookcase. Try out your projector on this and see how it looks to you... it will only cost about $15 and you will get a good idea of what a 1.0 screen will look like... I do not know exactly how the screen compares, but when I was comparing about 8 samples to the blackout cloth my guess would be that the blackout cloth is somewhere between .95 and 1.0

Use this piece of cloth as your zero and compare it with the samples you get from the various screen manufacturers.

Thanks HiHoStevo,
That's a very good sugestion. I think I will do that first before spending any money on a screen.

There's also a matte white board at Home Depot made by "Do-able". It's by the pegboard. When I taped Da-lite Matte White to it I couldn't see a difference. And it's 20% cheaper at $12. The only negative is you can get it up only up to 96"x48". Still it's a bit easier to work with then black out cloth since you don't have to deal with stretching it out.

FlyingGimp,

In what section is this pegboard found at HD? I feel like a dumbass. I read about this pegboard in the DIY screen forum and went looking for it but couldn't find it.

Edit: reread your post... next to the pegboards... not a pegboard... duh... thanks.

I guess this is still a waiting game on this unit, they are still starting to come in this week right?

I am a novice at this PJ stuff, but I am wondering why anyone would wait on this PJ when the Toshiba is already out.

I decided to get a PJ while watching the Super Bowl this year, so I started reading about PJ's on this forum and I read about the BenQ 7700 and decided this is the one I was going to get. I knew about the Toshiba as well, but I assumed that since BenQ was making both, that the BenQ would release first so I would get the BenQ. Then to my surprise the Toshiba released first so I ordered it b/c:
1. It was available first
2. We now find out the Toshiba seems to be cheaper by maybe ~$300(I also assumed the Toshiba would be higher than the OEM????) - 2nd false assumption
3. The only known difference is that the Toshiba had an interlace chip from that Japanese company I can't spell which is very highly respected while BenQ did some internal unknown/unproven/cheaper way.

Like I said I was going to buy which ever came first b/c I wanted to have my room setup by the Masters in HD, so I would have bought the BenQ w/o any hesitation, but w/ the above points why is anyone waiting? Is there some reason(s) I am clueless about?

The painting is be done in the next two days so my goal of the Masters on Saturday is within reach.

I'm waiting until they are compared head-to-head. I won't miss the Masters in HD because I already have a projector (though not 720p DLP... yet...). I'm never one to buy the first run, latest and greatest. I don't like being a guinea pig when it's that much $$$. Same reason I don't buy cars that have changed the model significantly (this is from experience, btw, not just theory).

Anyway, if I didn't have a PJ yet (or, for example, my PJ got destroyed or stolen) I'd probably get the Toshiba now. I just have the luxury of waiting. :)

I agree with Milt, I am not just going to jump on the Toshiba, How can you say that the toshiba is less expensive than a projector that is not even out yet, Prices fluctuate on projectors more than any other product on the market, just because BenQ has a listed a MSRP that does not mean that they will stick to it, and if they do it may only be for a month or two, I just got the drywall in my theater hung this weekend so Im not in any hurry, it is better for me to wait til I am near ready to Hang one before I buy, that and I also want to see them compared head to head before I decide

That's an even better reason, Travis. It's almost always best to wait until the last minute of building a dedicated theater to buy the projector (unless you're enjoying one elsewhere in the house).

Does anyone know the length of the warranty for this projector?

There's no mention of the length of the warranty on Benq's website (selected the US region) while the 8700 and 7800 have the 3 yr warranty which includes the hot-swap during the first year.

Just seen a 7700 today. A few observations:
1) It's very quiet. Definitely more quiet than Sharp Z2000.
2) The build is gd. Much better than its earlier "low end" models like 7800. The pearl white surface with the silver side makes it look gd.
3) There is no apparent light spill from either side or front. ( I put my hands in front of it and dun see any light)
4) The manul content looks extremely similar to the one of Tosh MT700 posted in the other thread ! The throw table is identical!
5) the remote also looks the same.

Sorry can't comment anything on the PQ as it's just out of the box in a dealer room with no light control.

Called Benq's toll-free support.

I was told that the PE7700 comes with the same 3 year warranty as the 8700 and 7800 even though it's not specified on their website.

What is the warranty on the Toshiba?

Originally posted by Kevin R. Anderson
What is the warranty on the Toshiba?

2 years, but the bulb's more likely to be your big expense item in that 2-3 year time period anyway. FWIW, the BenQ does have a higher initial dealer price than the Toshiba, but who knows how long that will be the case. The dealer cost on the Optoma H31 dropped before they became available due to competition.

I believe the Toshiba's warranty is 2 yrs.

Anything on throw/zoom/offset stuff yet? The spec sheet is less than usable.

Unfortunately, a PDF version of the manual is not available online (I've e-mailed BenQ customer service to see if a copy can be provided). With the 8700, it included a CD with the manual. If a CD comes with the PE7700, can someone make it available online? Thanks.

From what c722 said and based on the fact that they're essentially the same projector, you can probably use the Toshiba MT700 manual to get the info you need. There's a link to download the German version (in English) on the MT700 thread.

Miracle of Miracles - My eval 7700 has arrived.

I barely had a chance to open it last night, late, and only got so far as to watch some standard HiDef programming off of cable. Leno, a couple of INHD channel shows (something on Kangaroos/Australia), and some sports.

I did not toggle back and forth between it and my 8700+. Today, I'll be setting up a side by side with a component video feed thru a distribution amp, with the 8700+ and the 7700+ both projecting on to a Stewart matte white custom screen 48" x 206" This screen was designed so that I can compare any two 16:9 projectors, or any 3 4:3 projectors side by side.

Initial reactions. Again, this is off the cuff, since I did not switch back and forth.

1. I spotted no specific menu controls tied to "Sens-Eye". Nor have I read the manual regarding it yet.
2. The images seemed more contrasty out of the box. My impression is that there are blacker blacks here. I suspect that it is behaving in some ways like the Panasonic AE700u. That is - adjusting the projector performance based on the content of each frame. Overall, I think that the net result is an improvement over the 8700+, but remember only limited sources so far... Wait til I do LOTR, etc. for a final verdict
3. So far (remember hi-def only), I did not notice any motion artifacts - of course I am more likely to encounter them with a DVD and 3:2 pull-down... etc.
4 There are cinema, home theater, family room, and dynamic settings - I didn't calibrate, but for the Hi-def stuff, I immediately preferred the home theater mode. Family room looked pushed a bit (to deal with ambient light) not bad, but a little to much (possibly) color, contrast, etc., and dynamic - well save that for "survival" when you have a lot more ambient than you should.
5. Out of the box color - again Family room setting, was excellent, at least I would say better than the 8700+. Tonite, time allowing I will calibrate with my Avia disk.

So far so good. I think we may have a "better box - for less". -a

Oh yeah - a new remote - nice, the 8700+ remote was nice too. rarely need to go thru the menus.

I will post a prelim review (and hopefully some images) thursday on my review site. (address below). -art

Originally posted by presenter

I did not toggle back and forth between it and my 8700+. Today, I'll be setting up a side by side with a component video feed thru a distribution amp, with the 8700+ and the 7700+ both projecting on to a Stewart matte white custom screen 48" x 206" This screen was designed so that I can compare any two 16:9 projectors, or any 3 4:3 projectors side by side.


Art -

Are you planning on performing this comparison through the projector's digital inputs as well? Curious as to why you don't mention this. Seems to me the best way to compare them is pixel-mapping at 720P via DVI/HDMI with the scalers not engaged?

Yeah, what he said. And also, if you could, pop in AVIA and let me know what the (my fav subject) pixel loss due to cropping on this thing.

Art, see how the black level is over component with the NTSC setting on "USA" (if it has that setting). The Toshiba MT700 crushes blacks on that setting, so you have to use the "Japan" setting. Other than that possible change, I would expect the rest (like 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI) to be the same as the MT700.

No one has one of these up and running yet?

Originally posted by Travis R
No one has one of these up and running yet?
Read back to presenter's post, 5 posts back.

Steve

Greetings all,

I will do what I can, as quickly as I can, but am swampped. (And I leave for Maui for vacation on Saturday).

I do not yet have a DVI switch/amp, so I can't do a side by side. My own room is still under construction which also limits me.

I will get around to comparing the two on DVI. And maybe (big maybe) I'll be able to look at the cropping.

My JVC D-VHS finally got sent out for warranty service, and I have no genuine 720p source. My DVD players both only output 480i or 480p, and my cable is normally 1080i, so I don't think I have a short term solution to feeding it a pure 720p (and I'm not an HTPC person).

But here's a couple things I learned today.

1. Out of the box the color is better, less ruddy yellow flesh tones. Once I calibrate, whether it remains better, I don't know. But also on Star Wars II, I found that in its Cinema mode (which is closest to the 8700+ defauts, the whites were better, for example clouds and blue sky looked more right.

2. HDMI now, giving up the DVI-I, which took the computer signal or DVI. However instead you get 3 RCA component jacks that handle 480p or 480i not just 480i like the 8700+. There are the usual 5 BNC connectors so an analog computer can be input that way. Overall that's an improvement giving one more high quality option than the 8700+.

3. It appears about 20% brighter, but the 8700+ used already had about 50 hours on it, which might account for a tiny bit of difference.

4. Sense-eye. Haven't figured that out yet, but it does seem to be upping the dynamics of scenes with lots of dark and bright colors. (the night scenes of the city, with neon in Star Wars II)

5. Other modes - besides Cinema there is also Home Theater, Familyroom and one really dynamic mode (sorry not looking at the projector now). The Cinema mode was a winner on Star Wars. On HDTV last night the Home Theater mode was overall the best. The Family Room mode - obviously for people with too much ambient light - was no where near as good on flesh tones, and other stuff. (the projector indicates that, among other things happening in that mode, color jumps to +9 on the menu.

6. So far no motion artifact problems. But I need to see more 3:2 pulldown stuff.

7. Its a bit noisier picture, but not visible at any reasonable seating distance. And I didn't try the noise filter

8 Speaking of noise, it is quieter than the 8700+ I was standing right next to it, and I could tell the BenQ was still a touch lounder but about 6 feet away.

SO FAR, overall, it is a better 8700+ - for less. It's a bit prettier too. As the purple is gone.

Any differences due to the switch in electronics to BenQ's "own" scalers, etc., I have not been able to detect.

New remote - nice, but so was the old one - this one is bigger, you can get to most of the common stuff without going thru menus (mode changes, source, brightness, contrast...

I had it set up at my favorite dealer today, and all the sales people there got to see the two side by side. EVeryone liked the 7700 better (again default settings).

Last thing for now: On the opening sequence of Star Wars II, just before the planet comes into view there is just a star field. The number of stars visible on both projectors was virtually identical. The background blacks (gray of course) were not the same, the 7700 was lighter, but as I said, it appears to be brighter than the 8700+ unit I used, so that's fair.

What was interesting though, was the Home Theater mode. As soon as that engage the number of visible stars at least doubled, probably tripled. That was impressive. I played around with brightness, contrast, color, etc on the 8700+ and could not get it to do anything like that.

So it looks like a overall winner. There may yet be a real flaw, but so far.... so good. -art

Writing these take a long time, so, instead I will start posting the prelim review tomorrow night, on my review site. More on Friday, and after that - I'll likely be silent until I get back from vacation.

But for a projector that should be selling for at least $300 less than the final close out pricing on the 8700+, it looks like BenQ will remain the low cost champ for 720p DLP's. I think that many folks (who don't need lens shift) that would buy the Panny AE700u, will seriously look at moving up to this one instead, considering the difference in price between the AE700 and 7700 is not much more than 1/2 the price difference between the Panny and the 8700+ back in December.

I got an Optoma H79 - to review, but it's 2x the price? It has darkchip3, but the one they sent me arrived DOA. They are sending another, so I'll review that when I return. -art

Thanks for the posts Art.............

Kevin Anderson.... if your out there... are you getting one of these for review?

Yes, thank you Art.

It really looks like both projectors have no serious flaws right out the gate.

But for a projector that should be selling for at least $300 less than the final close out pricing on the 8700+, it looks like BenQ will remain the low cost champ for 720p DLP's

Just a quick point - but I think the Toshiba is going for about that much less than the BenQ and is pretty much an identical model execpt for the Faj chip....wouldn't that change that title from "champ" to runner up? ;)

Nevermind price, the BenQ sounds like a great model and I am very interested to hear just how close in performance the Toshiba comes in a direct comparison.

Obviously also it needs to be seen via HDMI. It may just be a function of the V880, but the DVI looks %50 better than component using the v880.

Anyone wanna buy a slightly used MT700 - I just can't stand having last weeks technology lying around.


(okay I'm kidding)

Art,
Bring your new 7700 along with you to Maui and you can test all you would like in my theater ;-)

I am mostly happy with my Z3, but I am very interested in this new "low cost"720 DLP.

Tom

Anyone can confirm if we can do 1:1 on the hdmi input ?

Steve:

I thought I had someone who was going to buy this unit, but they went with a RPTV, so as of today I don't have one on order. I'm very anxious to get one, calibrate it with the Accupel 720p signal over HDMI, and run it through the tests on AVIAPro.

Jason Yeo,

If you check the MT700 thread you'll see that 1:1 on the hdmi input has been achieved with DVD and HTPC. The Benq should be the same in that regard.

It appears from Art's comments that the Senseye processing doesn't have an on/off switch per se, but may only be engaged in "Home Theater" mode, which would be fine. I can't imagine it being on all the time in every mode.

BenQ has promised me a call today from their new product manager. Their old one, Mark left a month or so ago. I hope to be able to "reveal" the truth (according to BenQ) of Sense-Eye. -art

While you've got him, ask him how to get into the service menu. ;)

Have fun in Maui (like there's any way you wouldn't). :D

oh man now I really want one, it looks like this next year could be one heck of a year for projector lovers

I heard something about this projector having to be hung down real low from the ceiling i believe, if the top of my screen is say about 2 inches from the ceiling projecting around 110-120 inches how low would the 7700 have to be from the ceiling?

Originally posted by Travis R
I heard something about this projector having to be hung down real low from the ceiling i believe, if the top of my screen is say about 2 inches from the ceiling projecting around 110-120 inches how low would the 7700 have to be from the ceiling?

Hi, the manual has a chart showing the offsets - strangely, all numbers are 0. That would indicate that (ceiling mounted) that the center of the lens needs to be even with the top of the screen surface.

I have just emailed BenQ's product manager to find out if
a. this is correct, or
b. they put in all zeros because they didn't have the info handy when the manuals went to print.

I expect them to answer "a" or provide me the correct info. However based on the 8700+ (different lens), the offset would be close to 0 - I'm projecting something like 16 feet and my center of lens is about 3" above the top of my screen surface, if I remember correctly. (That's a 140" screen near the "telephoto" extreme on the zoom.

When I fired up the 7700 yesterday - tabletop the bottom of the screen was about 8" above the center of lens, and there was definitely some keystoning, so I would think that there will be very little offset at all, if any. -art

Why on earth would they have a zero/near-zero offset? That basically guarantees use of keystoning in all applications (table or ceiling mount).. that seems quite ridiculous to me.

I agree that an offset of 0 is not the best choice for a projector lacking lens shift. For my application, the bottom of my screen is 44" high and the middle of the lens is 33" high on my table mount set up So I would have some significant key-stoning. I could lower the screen, but then it runs into the center speaker blocking the bottom of the screen.

This may be the spec that eliminates this projector as my next purchase.

Tom

Originally posted by TCroly
This may be the spec that eliminates this projector as my next purchase.

These are the exact words I forgot to add at the end of my post...

I have a ceiling mount, but given that it's not a long throw (nor do I really want one), the projector will get in the way of a back row of raised seats, if no (or very little) keystoning is used.

Hmmm, I guess I'll be waiting even longer for my next PJ...

Personally, I don't like the zero offset either (as I have a high ceiling in my theater room), but I've read so many posts bemoaning the normal 10-12" offset usually found that I'm sure that there are a lot of people that will love this. If you have an 8' ceiling, you'd only be dropping down a foot or so for screen sizes of 100" and up.

I am one of those who need the 0 offset. I have a low ceiling and with this 0 offset I can mount it flushed with the ceiling with the 132" screen. It's much nicer. Without the 0 offset I must get a PJ with vertical lens shift.

But for a projector that should be selling for at least $300 less than the final close out pricing on the 8700+, it looks like BenQ will remain the low cost champ for 720p DLP's. I think that many folks (who don't need lens shift) that would buy the Panny AE700u, will seriously look at moving up to this one instead, considering the difference in price between the AE700 and 7700 is not much more than 1/2 the price difference between the Panny and the 8700+ back in December.

That's the thing, isn't it? The Panny's flexibility is going to kill the competition. The fact that it has lens shift and has a long throw means it has something no other projector in it's class has, not to mention that the price is killer.

I'd love to have one of the 720P DLPs, but the lack of options of where to put it is a deal killer for me. Right now, I'd have to raise up the projector a couple feet over where my LT150 is currently sitting to have it clear the speakers. Ceiling mount would be difficult, and incures an additional cost.

Jason

I was set on the Panny for awhile and its ease of placement was fantastic, but I am one of the people for whom zero offset *could* work, even if its a royal PITA. IMHO its worth the trouble for the superior picture...in my case...

How is the picture superior to the AE700U? I started a AE700 VS MT700 thread (of course the 7700 would be basically equiv to the mt700) but haven't found an anwser. What is worse about the AE700 than the 7700? The stats are the same (lumens, constrast, resolution)
Inquiring minds want to know.
Warren.

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
How is the picture superior to the AE700U? I started a AE700 VS MT700 thread (of course the 7700 would be basically equiv to the mt700) but haven't found an anwser. What is worse about the AE700 than the 7700? The stats are the same (lumens, constrast, resolution)
Inquiring minds want to know.
Warren.
Eight letters: DLP vs LCD

That'd be my guess anyway... no first hand comparison experience here, but especially at the same resolution, I'd guess the DLP would be significantly better. Again, I haven't seen these side-by-side.

DLP vs LCD doesn't really mean anything if the stats are the same. Old days LCD = poor constrast ratio, but the projectors have the same CR.

On the zero offset problem, a visit to the panamorph site brought about a good point. With the 2.35 vertical compression lens you get a .069 * distance offset or almost 12 inches at 14' throw. That really helps out my install.

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
DLP vs LCD doesn't really mean anything if the stats are the same. Old days LCD = poor constrast ratio, but the projectors have the same CR.


I don't want to turn this into a DLP vs. LCD war, but for those that haven't seen both in action, this statement is untrue. I would suggest to anybody who is on the fence to audition both. For those who are unsensitive to rainbows, it's no question that the HD2+ DLP is superior to any 720P LCD on the market, PERIOD. If you're senstive to rainbows, the Panny AE700U is a great alternative. But in terms of sheer contrast and picture quality, forget it!

The point is that I don't see the Panny AE700U or even the Sony HS51 to be a direct competitor to these newer "lower priced" HD2+ machines. If you haven't noticed, the price of the AE700U has recently dropped significantly (if you throw in the $200 rebate from Panasonic). This will be the case as time goes on. I doubt you'll ever see the same price for 720P LCD vs. 720P DLP. In order for LCD to compete, it must always be at a lower price point. The Sony HS51 is having a tough time right now. Don't get me wrong, those two 720P LCDs are good projectors (as is my Sanyo Z2), but this Z2 is the last LCD product I will ever own!

In the end, we all win!

Steve

Originally posted by Kevin R. Anderson
Here is a link for information on BenQ's Senseye technology: http://benq.us/senseye/

Check this out. Go to Google and search on the string below.

www.ocheaven.cn/article/0504/readiyarticle.asp?id=4112

Then click on the translate button on the hit that is returned by Google.

I found the translation puzzling but there are some interesting nuggets in the article none-the-less.

Cheers,
Mark

I found the translation puzzling but there are some interesting nuggets in the article none-the-less.

I don't know what you mean. How could the following sentence be anything but clear... :D

"No matter in the dark night crow feather gloss or the horizon white clouds level feeling, all may lifelike present in you at present"

(Actually, I initially tried translating from Japanese instead of Chinese. You think the translation from Chinese is confusing... :D)

"No matter in the dark night crow feather gloss or the horizon white clouds level feeling, all may lifelike present in you at present"

Well, this obviously means that...umm...the crow is of an even mind when the clouds are low, and his dark mood makes him feel even more alive than the color of the clouds themselves - and you....you are but a feather....


...yeah...

One of my employees is from China, and I had her look at this. She said the translation is surprisingly accurate, but that the Chinese language is simply not very adept at discussing hi-tech topics, so they have combined old words to make new ones, which, when translated literally, result in some odd word combinations.

However, I get the jist of it -- the PE7700 makes big, bright, colorful, pretty pictures. What more do you need to know?

Originally posted by Kevin R. Anderson
One of my employees is from China, and I had her look at this. She said the translation is surprisingly accurate, but that the Chinese language is simply not very adept at discussing hi-tech topics, so they have combined old words to make new ones, which, when translated literally, result in some odd word combinations.

However, I get the jist of it -- the PE7700 makes big, bright, colorful, pretty pictures. What more do you need to know?

Yup. Example: Magnet, when translated into chinese language is, "rock that sticks."

Ja Phule............

Then Politician must translate into Butt that talks............

Then Politician must translate into Butt that talks............
Wow!

You speak Chinese!!! :D

Greetings,
Boy, I go away for 24 hours and the thread turns into a discourse on languages. Have fun.

Anyway, I have posted a large chunk of review on my site for those interested. I will have to finish when I get back from vacation, but I can tell you from side by sides with my 8700+ etc. This seems to be the better projector - equal or better in almost every area.
I will be working with DVI/HDMI sources when I get back, but so far everything is off of component input.
I also received a long powerpoint document on Sense-eye, which I have barely scanned. It looks like it has some insights, and if I can get permission from BenQ I will post it.
One problem. None of the pictures I posted appear. I've emailed my webmaster, and so, hope the images will all appear sometime tomorrow.
Feedback appreciated, of course, but keep in mind I try to write for people who are not as fanatical as some of you.
enjoy -art

Originally posted by TheLongshot
That's the thing, isn't it? The Panny's flexibility is going to kill the competition. The fact that it has lens shift and has a long throw means it has something no other projector in it's class has, not to mention that the price is killer.

Jason

Even the Panny isn't perfect. from a lens shift standpoint, it can sit anywhere between only slightly above top of screen, or below bottom, but just barely.

Those with higher ceilings still have to hang the projector down a ways. By comparison Sanyo's Z3's lens shift has more range - I can't recall the specifics, but with a 100" screen it can probably be mounted a good foot higher than the Panny.

Hey, I have a 19.5 foot ceiling and my 8700+ hangs down just over 5 feet (my 140" screen surface starts about 6 inches below the lens center.

Most people I talk to don't worry to much about it. I'd rather have the performance of the BenQ than the lens shift flexibility of the Panny.

Hey when we watch in our theaters, its dark anyway, so why worry if the projector hangs down an extra few inches or foot. (OK if someone has a really low ceiling and tiered seating I can see that as a possible problem).

-art

art, the images in your review are not showing up because you are missing a '/' between your images-articles directory and the jpg name, see below:

<p><img src="images-articlesBenQ7700frontLensFeet.jpg"

Can I use your projector while you are on vacation?
I would love if you put a panny 700 beside the 7700 and compared the images.
Warren.

Warren

Stephen Francis's comments about the DLP versus LCD are quite accurate.

Unless you are one of the people that has a "problem" (and there are folks for whom this is a real issue) with rainbows....... I would not even consider an LCD. While LCD technology has improved it still is not even close to the picture that you will get from DLP. That is not to say that it might not catch up one of these days... just that it is not there yet.

I have viewed the AE700 several times and while it does an excellent job for an LCD... it is just that .. excellent for an LCD! Do not believe specifications that are written by the projector manufacturers ... at least they cannot be used to pick a projector... those spec's are taken for "marketing" purposes and do not represent a projector calibrated for Home Theater use.

Use your eyes... find people in your area that have the type of projectors you want to consider.. then go take a look at them with your own eyes.. that is the only way to make a choice. What you see is what is important.

IMHO its worth the trouble for the superior picture...in my case... I agree

Thanks, I have seen the Mitsubishi HC900U in fry's and was impressed, so I would have to think the 7700 would be much better. Life expectancy seems to be another big advantage of DLP. Also the sealed light engine really does it for me. I live in Arizona and dust is a major problem here. Now to just decide between the 7700 and the MT700. I am thinking the 7700 is the one. The only bad thing is the extra price sucks up my budget for a 2.35 lens. That is all I plan to watch (I hate TV,) but it sounds like the blacks are good enough the black bars won't be too much of a bother.
Warren.

wnielsenbb -

I am curious what you have found the differences between the 7700 and the MT700 to be. So far all I've heard is:

1) Name
2) Faroudja Chip in the Tosh, BenQ in-house chip
3) BenQ has Senseye Auto-Gamma-Tracker-thingamabob (which probably won't do anything a proper calibration won't do right?)

Is there anything else?

(To remove bias note I did just order the MT700 but I am still interested in knowing the differences)

I don't think there is a huge difference.
The BenQ has another year of warrenty, another 100 lumens. I Don't care about the MT700's chip since I will be feeding it 720p only. It sounds like the Senseye thing really works, and yes it can work better than calibration. Calibration affects the whole image, where Senseye affects just what the programmers wanted. Look at art's attempt to calibrate the 7800 to get as many stars as the 7700 was displaying. The whole image was brightened making the blacks grey. On the 7700 just the stars are brightened, space is still black.
Course, I don't really know, I don't suppose anyone will till the two are compared side-by-side. Art really picked a bad time to go on vacation.

so I am understanding right, the lightpath on the MT700 also is sealed?

Nice review by Art on the BQ7700 it looks like the BQ people have a winner on their hands. I have been ready to pull the trigger on a Sharp 2000, or MT700 and waited for the BQ7700 sense my room is not quite done yet.

I really feel between the three unit’s, ONE could not make a bad decision. I have seen the Sharp and it was impressive and have set up my HT for it but the 1 year warranty has been a thorn in my side, and the BQ has a 3 year and its a few bucks less.

I still have a month before I need to throw the on switch and watch a DVD so I will do a little more thinking (that can be dangerous sometimes) LOL

Most people I talk to don't worry to much about it. I'd rather have the performance of the BenQ than the lens shift flexibility of the Panny.

Well, it is more than just the lens shift, but also the long throw capabilities. It means that I could put the projector in the back of the room.

I know that the 720P DLPs probably kill the LCDs, but don't dismiss the flexibility of the AE700.

Jason

Jason - I'm with you. I was seriously considering the 7700, but the lack of placement flexibility made it undesirable in my room. My basement HT isn't ideal, as the laundry room is through a side door - thus I have to be able to cross the room easily. Hanging a projector would be a pain in this situation. Plus, the zero offset means that I have no flexibility in how high/low I hang it.

No matter how you cut it, the Panny is a very good image (DLP/LCD debate aside), can be improved with a cheap filter (now how does the LCD/DLP debate go???), has no screen door, and give you a nice flexible range of mounting options. Panasonic seems to have gotten it pretty much right with this product. Why couldn't BenQ/Tosh have followed suit!?!

has no screen door but does have Vertical Banding

Stop with the PJ bashing and hyper-comparing please. I want to hear about the 7700 in this thread, not the AE700.

Hehehe I agree Spiky, Well I just purchased a BQ7700 today and should have it in a couple of days.

I am not an PJ expert so I don't know if my opinion on picture quality will mean much, but I will post my view in a few days, without all the hyper tech of course, just an average Joe 6 pack view(burp).

Well I should say I have spent 25 years in the Industrial color printing bus selling everything from the camera to the printing press (color is color)no matter what voltage or frequency wave it might take, but my real concern, is the movie good, and how much butter was on the pop corn, and posably which particular brew might go with red hots. Yummmm!!!!!

I am not an PJ expert so I don't know if my opinion on picture quality will mean much, but I will post my view in a few days, without all the hyper tech of course, just an average Joe 6 pack view(burp).

Well I should say I have spent 25 years in the Industrial color printing bus selling everything from the camera to the printing press (color is color)no matter what voltage or frequency wave it might take, but my real concern, is the movie good, and how much butter was on the pop corn, and posably which particular brew might go with red hots. Yummmm!!!!!
Sounds like just the kind of review I need... ;)

I had a chance to play with PE7700 for 3 hours in a well-light-controlled room, after trying 1080i, 480i, 480p, 720p, component, HDMI, here is my thoughts:

PLUS:
1. Image intensity very good. Very high contrast look.
2. The color seems to be dead on, very accurate.
3. It's quiet, though not silent, very a big improvement over PE8700/PE7800.
4. Finishing quality is good, laquar-finish, even on the remote control
5. short throw lens, can throw a big image in a short distance
6. There is a "Real" mode, seems to be 1:1 mapping if you feed a 720p signal

Things that can be better:
1. THere is no 3-2 pull down! I checked it using Super Speedway DVD, 480i input to YPbPr and the BNC connector, either terminals showed excessive motion artifacts due to 3-2 pull down. Anyone who has a PE7700, please check out the Ch. 7 of Super Speedway. Actually, the 3-2 pull down artifacts are everywhere when you start playing the DVD. Don't know whether it's isolated incident or ...
2. 1080i artifacts I was watching a 1080i pro-baseball game, the side lines (diagonal) shows constant artifacts, even when the camera is not moving. This indicates that it may just treat 1080i as 540p signal, hence even/odd differences show up on the diagonal side lines. I seem to recall one other new projector also has this issue? treating 1080i as 540p?
3. No gamma adjustment selection Well, the image already is very good, so normal folks probably don't need this. But to power users, the lacking of the adjustment is a let-down. I personally want to change to a different degamma since the overall image is a little "harsh" to me due to its high contrasty image. Don't get me wrong, high contrast is good, but everyone has different preference, so it should be good to allow user to change to different degamma curves.
4. No Senseye adjustment items The image adjustment is just the normal ones, one cannot control the features as described in BENQ's website of their senseye technology. This is a let down also for power user. But for average folks, this may not be a problem.
5. OSD coloring leaves something to be desired. I probably have seen too many Japanese OSD designs ...

Overall, it's a good projector for average folks, very contrasty images, intensity is really good (a big improvement from PE8700), it's more like a TV image than a film-like projector due to the high intensity. THere are some issues with the unit I saw. Even if PE7700 does not have 3-2 pull down, nowadays, the HDMI DVDs are very affordable with 3-2 pull down, one can just run through HDMI to bypass the issue.

For power users, I would suggest to check out the machine first to see if it's to your liking. The adjustments are the normal packs, no extra features (like those described in Senseye website) that one can play with. It maybe all set in default. The 480i and 1080i artifacts maybe something we all have to stuck with for lower cost 720p. Only Marantz VP12S4 now claims to have 1080i de-interlacing with 3-2 pull down film modes!

Tzun........

Can you enter the "service" menu in the same manner as the 8700? Menu-power-menu........

Thanks for the info, TzungLin, but I have a couple of questions.

1. THere is no 3-2 pull down!
Chapter 7 of Super Speedway reveals the inability of the deinterlacer to stay in Film mode during high detail scenes. If it incorrectly drops into Video mode and you see moire artifacts, it doesn't mean that it's not doing 3:2 pulldown. However, if it's doing that in all scenes, it's not a great deinterlacing solution.

3. No gamma adjustment selection

The Toshiba MT700 (the 7700's brother) has RGB curve (gamma) adjustments. Applied evenly, increasing the RGB levels reduces gamma. Does the 7700 have this adjustment as well?

On a side note, the 8700 service menu procedure doesn't work with the MT700, but it might with the 7700.

Dear MikeSRC,

On the unit that I viewed, there is no RGB gamma curve, only RGB gain and RGB bias, it's more to color temperature and white balance adjustment. It cannot change the characteristic of the gamma curve too much, only minor corrections.

On de-interlacing, Almost when the camera moves, the motion artifacts appear. And that tells me that there is no 3-2 pull down, or if it has, the parameter settings must be wrong, since it could not stay with the camera movement to detect film mode.

So, MT700 uses FLI23xx chips, and PE7700 not? that is strange, I would have assumed that it's easier to make "twins" by having the same DNA? :)

Maybe it's firmware setting issue related to the PE7700 that I viewed?

The BenQ people at CES told me that the 7700 was using their own deinterlacing solution, not Faroudja. Still though, it just may just be that it's not per pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing, which could account for the motion artifacts. I can't believe it doesn't do 3:2 pulldown, even if it's just basic flag reading. Their advertising literature states that its supposed to have it?? Do you have a progressive scan DVD player to compare it with?

I'm really surprised it doesn't have the same gamma adjustment though. I would have thought that would be available on both.

Tzun.........

You mentioned something about the film being shot (mastered... whatever) at 24hz...

Is it possible that this is a situation where it is 2:2 pulldown... I have heard that some non region one DVD's are created using this 2:2 pulldown method which I have read "many" DVD players and I presume projectors have problems with?!?!?

Dear Mike,

I used Pioneer 969Ai, the top end HDMI DVD as source. After verifying that the 480i input has motion artifacts, I changed to 480p from Pioneer just to check the image quality, and all those artifacts are gone.

It may be firmware issue related to the first batch of units, that is why I asked PE7700 owner and MT700 to try the same DVD to see if it's an isolated incident (faulty unit) or a common issue.

Sometimes a manufacture may say that the display has progressive processing or i/P conversion capability, but there are many de-interlacing algorithm, a simple weave is also considered to be a progressive processing feature, it just does not provide reversed 3-2 pull down for film mode. I was very surprised to see PE7700 does not have reversed 3-2 film mode since I've considered it to be the basic feature for all video projectors.

Dear Steve,

Well, the Super Speedway DVD I used is region 1 DVD, it's a very famous DVD for testing 3-2 pull down. Go buy a copy and you will see if you have a PE7700. I used this DVD for 3-2 testing ever since I introduced DVDO 504 chip to Proton Progressive CRT TV.:cool:

I'm guessing, just guessing, that PE7700 is using Oplus scaler (from their OSD style, which is similar to PE8700) and its built-in de-interlacer function. PE7700 may not use an extra de-interlacer chip like DVDO504 (which they used on PE8700) or FLI23xx. Then the built-in de-interlacer function inside the scaler normally does not compare well to separate chipset, like DVDO504 or FLI23xx.

Nowadays, it's a trend to integrate all functions into a single chip, Pixel Works, Oplus, even TI DDP2000.

Originally posted by TzungILin
It may be firmware issue related to the first batch of units, that is why I asked PE7700 owner and MT700 to try the same DVD to see if it's an isolated incident (faulty unit) or a common issue.

That may very well be the case, TzungILin. I don't know of any deinterlacing chip used today that does not do 3:2 pulldown. Some may use different methods to achieve this, but they should all be capable of it. Even the cheapest deinterlacing solutions out there do 3:2 pulldown. The last one I saw that didn't was in the old Pioneer 434, but it was an entry-level progressive scan player introduced years ago. Very strange. It almost sounds as if it's not using the film mode. Is there a setting for that in the menu?

I'm guessing, just guessing, that PE7700 is using Oplus scaler (from their OSD style, which is similar to PE8700) and its built-in de-interlacer function. PE7700 may not use an extra de-interlacer chip like DVDO504 (which they used on PE8700) or FLI23xx. Then the built-in de-interlacer function inside the scaler normally does not compare well to separate chipset, like DVDO504 or FLI23xx.

That sounds like a pretty good guess, but even using the built-in deinterlacing of the Oplus chip should give a better result than you're getting. We'll have to wait and see how other units perform. There's only been a preliminary release here in the U.S., so there are very few available.

Tzun........

Yes, I will purchase that DVD...

Actually I have the 8700+ and it will be interesting to see how it handles that DVD.

When I have tested the 480i versus 480p on my 8700+ I found that the progressive signal from my Panasonic DVD player (faroudja inside) gave me a much better picture at 480p than it did at 480i.

Where does the idea come from that the 7700 light engine is sealed? I didn't see that stated on the company web site or the sales blurb. Did I just miss it?

Barrie

Most modern day DLPs (I believe) have sealed light engines, except maybe the very cheap ones. If you look at page 2 of Art's (presenter) preliminary review (attached web page), he says that the light engine is sealed:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=33&page=2

Thanks, Claus. I learn something new nearly every day!

Barrie

Originally posted by TzungILin
I it's more like a TV image than a film-like projector due to the high intensity.

TzungILin: what is the size of screen you use? I have a MT700 and am now waiting for my 92". I agree that on my 60" even in normal lamp mode I sometimes wished I was wearing sunglasses :cool:
Do you consider a ND2 filter?

greetz Kjelt.

okay I get the idea: the scaler/deinterlacer in PE7700 is not gd.
Well (un)fortunately I had already invested some money in the source. So I definitely will not use the internal scaler of a PJ. If the Benq's "Real" mode is what I thought it is, then it is probably okay.

In any case, for this price, there isn't really much to complain abt. I just wish the Tosh is available in this region. (Only the Benq is available here)

Originally posted by TheLongshot
That's the thing, isn't it? The Panny's flexibility is going to kill the competition. The fact that it has lens shift and has a long throw means it has something no other projector in it's class has, not to mention that the price is killer.

I'd love to have one of the 720P DLPs, but the lack of options of where to put it is a deal killer for me. Right now, I'd have to raise up the projector a couple feet over where my LT150 is currently sitting to have it clear the speakers. Ceiling mount would be difficult, and incures an additional cost.

Jason

If you look at the optical path of an LCD projector you will note how relatively easy it is to put in lens shift. (as compared to a DLP design) Howevery the optical path using the lens shift on a LCD projector has some serious drawbacks. Namely you lose some of the efficiency of the light and therefore lose lumens by its use and how much of that efficiency or lumens lost is dependant on the degree used. Blessing or curse?? Also typical on the aforementioned projector may be issues with brightness uniformity when using lens shift.

A good mount should only take 5 to 10 minutes to install and adjust.

Robert

Robert, I find your statement that lens shift could be a "blessing or curse" strange. I have never read anyone write they wished their projector didn't have lens shift or read anything besides your brief statement that criticized it. I for one am very disappointed the 7700 doesn't have it.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
3. No gamma adjustment selection

The Toshiba MT700 (the 7700's brother) has RGB curve (gamma) adjustments. Applied evenly, increasing the RGB levels reduces gamma. Does the 7700 have this adjustment as well?



I had a chance to read the actual printed manual of the 7700. Comparing the menu tree with that of the MT700, it's clear the 7700 does not have Gamma adjustment. It has everything else under "White Balance Fine Tuning" except :

Advanced->White Balance Fine Tuning->RGB Curve-><(R/G/B Gamma)

(neither does it have anything to do with SensEye.)

Is the manual online anywhere yet? I searched for it but no luck.
Warren.

wae5 .... Sorry you find the truth on some of the detrimental effects of lens shift on some of the budget lcd projectors strange.

Robert

It is kind of like an audio purist probably isn't going to want to throw a radio shack graphic equalizer in system so he can tweak the sound, but most of us think it fun and can make up for bad speakers. Same with lens shift, and zoom for that matter. The best lens would have neither. Robert, and a few others, would sacrifice convience for more pure vision. Would most of us notice the difference? Probably not. Myself, I could live without lens shift, but the zero offset is a killer. I can't hang the projector as low as I want the screen. It is in the path between the kitchen and family room. I plan to work around it by adding a Panamorph lens so the offset will be whatever height the black bars would be on 2.35 DVD's (~12% of image hieght.) Now 16x9 material will have black bars on the sides. I would have done this anyway since I am only concerned about 2.35 DVD's. Robert would probably not approve of the the lens, but with 2.35 material, besides increasing effective resolution and brightness, it is said to add a certain undefinable something.
Warren.

Namely you lose some of the efficiency of the light and therefore lose lumens by its use and how much of that efficiency or lumens lost is dependant on the degree used. Blessing or curse?? Also typical on the aforementioned projector may be issues with brightness uniformity when using lens shift.

No doubt that there are minor issues when you get toward the edges of a lens shift, considering you aren't using the prime spot of the lens to display an image.

You could also say a similar thing about zooms as well. Unless you are using high quality lenses, you are going to have some losses there.

Problem is, a fixed lens doesn't work for everyone, since not everyone has the room to put a projector in one particular place.

For me, the zero offset is really killing this for me. I can't put it in without it being a pain, and it costing me more (since it would require a ceiling mount). I may just decide to keep my LT150 and just punt for the time being.

Jason

I thought lens shift on LCD pj's was done by literally translating the lens, so no extra optics.

Originally posted by wnielsenbb
Is the manual online anywhere yet? I searched for it but no luck.
Warren.

no it's not available on line. I read it in a dealer's demo room. If you want to find its throw/offset, the table is identical to the one posted in the MT700 thread. (It's really IDENTICAL to every number. )

btw abt your 2.35 material concern. At least you can get a scaler than can shift/pan the 2.35 image within the 16:9 frame. That's what I'm going to do to move the image down. (but I guess the bottom of 16:9 could still be too high for you).

I loved having the lens shift on My former projector - the Z2- but did it hurt the optics? Yes definitley. Also I had it towards the maximum shift.

Did i miss something?

Is going to be 1700 euro in Spain. Thats about 2200 US :p

How much is going to cost in the states?... a little lower perhaps? ;)

Nope, higher. Check US sellers on-line.

Well it looks like I will be waiting a bit longer before I can buy one of these babies, Just had to pay over 500 in taxes yesterday which was quite unexpected, and then on wednesday I had to buy a new Cel Phone at 300 bucks since I dont have insurance on my phone,, and the day before that I had to pay a plumber 217 bucks to fix my sewage line, gotta be the worst week ever for gettin hammered in the rear end......... sigh , oh well maybe when I finally have the money again to get one thie price will have dropped some

http://www.4wsp.com/bang.gif

Originally posted by Travis R
Well it looks like I will be waiting a bit longer before I can buy one of these babies, Just had to pay over 500 in taxes yesterday which was quite unexpected, and then on wednesday I had to buy a new Cel Phone at 300 bucks since I dont have insurance on my phone,, and the day before that I had to pay a plumber 217 bucks to fix my sewage line, gotta be the worst week ever for gettin hammered in the rear end......... sigh , oh well maybe when I finally have the money again to get one thie price will have dropped some

http://www.4wsp.com/bang.gif

Sheesh, you left out your yearly salary and social security number!

WOW!!!! $500 That's all? BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

The Optoma H31 is a great projector for those that only have to pay an additional $500 to Uncle Sam.

price shocker, benq $600 more than MT700!

thats a bunch for an extra year warranty (and getting shorted a Faroudja chip!)

am i missing something (besides a Faroudja chip)?

if you knew what I actually grossed last year then you would understand, lets just say even my tax guy felt sorry for me ........ I just gotta tell myself to be patient and stop thinkin about the IF4805 again, not that its a bad PJ.....I just want more out of my first PJ, but that price is getting more and more tempting......wait wait.......... No its not tempting at all

Hi Guys,

I know not too many ppl have had a chance for comparison yet, though I find myself faced with a dilema that I am hoping someone can offer some advice / oppinion on...

Firstly, let me just say that I ma very sensitive to motion artifacts (Motion dithering etc) though not sensitive to Rainbow on high end DLPs.

This will be my third PJ in 3 years - Sharp 91e, Sharp 9000 and now the Benq.

I am a black level lover.

I have an opportunity to purchase a PE8700+ for approx 1k more than the estimated retail of the upcoming 7700.

I expect this opportunity will disolve before the 7700 becomes available for audition in approx 2-3 weeks here in Aus.

So the dilema - I love the image of the 8700 as there is little to no motion artifacting - particularly little motion dithering / artificial contouring / clay face / posterisation.... I am happy with the contrast capabilities of the 8700+ and enjoy the punch of the image.

However, the 7700 MIGHT be better! MIGHT be brighter, MIGHT have better real world contrast with better shadow detail (Senseye!?) and IS going to be about 1k cheaper than even this great price on the 8700+.....

BUT if I wait to see the 7700, the 8700+ at this price will be gone and if the 7700 turns out to have worse contrast (depth of image) and worse of all - motion dithering, I would not be interested in purchasing and would have missed my opportunity on the 8700+!!!! :-(

As a consqeuence I would almost certainly be forced back to trying to find an audition of the Mits HC900 in the hope that it does not have dithering issues, which I would prefer over a higher res model that sufferes from motion dithering (I only watch SD at the mo) and I would find it hard to spring the current street price of the 8700+ which is 1k higher than the price being offered to me right now (ex Demo with 300hrs).

So there we have it.... does anyone think I am suffering from Grass is always greener syndrome?

My "better safe than sorry" side is saying, go with the 8700+ as you know u like it, and there is no risk...

My "1k is 1k!" side says, 1k could go towards the new deck :-)

And then there is the part of me saying that if I by the 8700+ without seeing the 7700, I am not exploring all possibilities and therefor doing myself a diservice..... I always like to check out all my options and make the most considered opinion I can...

Ho humm...... anyone?? help?? :-)

Easy Answer: Buy the PE7700 or a Toshiba MT700 (same thing plus Faroudja, cheaper, minus senseye)

http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=33&page=3

Motion artifacts, which I haven't discussed, are awefully hard to spot on this projector, I definitely noticed on one scene that the new PE7700 projector was cleaner, in this regard, than my own PE8700+.

That help? He states about a million times how the PE7700 is nothing but an improvement over the 8700+ in many different ways. :)

I have had my PE7700 for 3 days now and the picture quality is wonderful. I am new to the Projection arena and have only watched 3 movies so far, I Robot, Harry Potter, and Happy Gilmore.

Not sure if I can be of help because I am really new and don't know what motion dithering is or any of the other things I've read about, like black crush, white crush, Micro blocking, worms in the black, worms in the green, sparkles and all the other artifacts I read about out hear.

Personally I have not seen any problems that have taken my attention away from the movie I did watch I Robot a second time, looking at the blacks, whites, motion, clouds ect.......... and tried to find a some fault and I saw a halo around Sonny’s head during the police station interview and thought Ha Ha!! I found something turned out my RPTV showed the same over burned high light; it looks like the animator got carried away on the high light scale. Go figure

My guess is the higher res of these new PJ are going to show more flaws in the creators’ side, than actual flaws made but the PJ but some will blame the PJ most times. JMO

Sorry for the low tech review I am not a tech, I can only tell you what my eyes have seen so far, nothing but great sharp bright picture, with good color skin tones and good blacks, RIGHT out of the box with no tweaking. I will make adjustments later as I learn the inter control of this PJ better but for now why mess with a good picture.

I can only compare it to the PJ I saw demonstrated the Marantz, Runco, Sharpxvz 2000 Sony VPLHS51 and the only FLAW was the lcd Sony had screen door that started at about 10 ft from the screen, closer than the recommended distance anyway. Sony was the sharpest picture on all the DVD’s I saw, it was razor sharp, VARY not film like, and I guess this extra hard sharpness could contribute to the SD effect I saw at 10 to 12 ft. I wish now I had reached up and took a little focus off the lens just to see if the SD would have been softened a little. JMO but I think this is where the Panny 700 smoothing technology comes in, soften the edged soften the SD or eliminate it all together.

I don't think anyone could go wrong with any of the new PJ's Good Luck

Jonny....

Lots of people say the same things about the 4805 - dosn;t meen it is a great PJ.

I have read the review you quoted, though was hoping for more input from more ppl - sorry i should ahve mentioned that in my original post of course.

Tha nks for your input so far..l. hoping to see more, from other ppl - and specifically about dithering (again I do acknowledge that one reviewer mentioned ther ewere few motion artifacts... I guess I am hoping some of the people I trust in here can back that up!?)

Thanks again..

Gotcha - I understand completely. I think if you look at BenQ's lineup for this year you'll see that the 7700 was intended to replace the 8700+, so hopefully it is all improvements (which it sounds to be based on one review! ;) ) We'll see as the additional comparisons come in...

here's hoping.... Hopefully the guy will call me if he gets another bite on it, and then ill mkae a decision if the 7700 still aint out.

Anyone else had any iniital impressions? Can someone do some motion dithering tests? anyone got PAL gladiator and a 7700 ? I can easily lead u to where u will find dithering issues in that movie - MIGHT also be the case on NTSC, though not sure...

Anyone? :-)

Lots of people say the same things about the 4805 - dosn;t meen it is a great PJ.
Actually, that conclusion is based on overwhelming user feedback.