Well she don’t look like any college girl to me ! :D
(
BUT she does kinda remind me of my Calculus teacher if she had had shorter hair.

jb, thanks for the memory! :)

Interesting. I don't know much about reformatting bit streams, etc., but I can tell you it's not a case of my settings being improper. At the beginning of the HD DVD, there is the Universal globe logo that morphs into an HD DVD logo -- it is crystal clear and the colors are vivid. That is the HD I'm looking for :)

From a review of the Toshiba Hd-DVD player

Wacky audio

HD-DVD discs allegedly offer even better sound than do DVDs. And while we actually believe this--HD-DVD discs are encoded with the higher-resolution Dolby True HD, Dolby Digital Plus, and/or DTS-HD soundtracks--the player's audio setup is a real hassle to figure out, and we're still not certain we've gotten optimal sound out of the home theater here in our lab. In our review of the HD-A1, we note that, "There's a full-page chart in the manual that details which connections can pass which types of soundtracks, including footnotes such as this: 'Bitstream audio output is possible only when the connected HDMI device has bitstream decoding function. If not, sound is output in PCM (48k) format.'" If that isn't confusing enough, word is that Warner's initial HD-DVD offerings don't appear to have been mastered correctly. As reported at DVD enthusiast site The Digital Bits, if you go from watching The Last Samurai to Universal's correctly mastered Serenity, your speakers may get blown out, because the latter disc is so much louder--a fact to which we can attest.

I understand this to mean that if you connect the HD DVD player feed to the Q via HDMI the optical or coaxial line out can not carry a high enough bit rate so your audio feed to your receiver is only PCM. So no high resolution Dolby or DTS.

The Full Review (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6510291-1.html?tag=nl.e722)

Stew

Well that’s news to me - at least any artifact that us consumers will readily visualize !

Care to quote any reliable, non-biased (meaning non-MicroSoft employee) scientific sources such as an SMPTE paper authored by an independent source ?

I would also even be amenable (to a change in opinion) if any testing done by the DVD forum specifically found this to be true.

I think that codecs shouldn’t make much difference as long as the MPEG-2 proponents are willing to go to higher bitrates for transparency to achieve equity with the more efficient VC-1 codec……which I believe Sony (the strongest and most vested MPEG-2 proponent) has already announced that it is willing to do in time as well as moving to MPEG-4.

See my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7096771&&#post7096771) earlier in this thread (at least as comparing AVC to MPEG2; not sure about VC-1, I just got that standard yesterday). Since you are now treating me like a hostile witness :), I'll point you to technical references later when I get to the office although I'm not sure whether you have access to the MPEG2 standard? that may be the only source you consider to be unbiased :D

...


I understand this to mean that if you connect the HD DVD player feed to the Q via HDMI the optical or coaxial line out can not carry a high enough bit rate so your audio feed to your receiver is only PCM. So no high resolution Dolby or DTS.

...

Stew


Stew, I don't think the Q works that way; the audio out over optical is only for the audio that derives from the internal tuner. anyone who tried this, please chime in as I only remember reading about it...

I'll point you to technical references later when I get to the office although I'm not sure whether you have access to the MPEG2 standard? that may be the only source you consider to be unbiased :D
Lol, I see you’ve maintained your sense of humor. :D

What I consider unbiased references are listed in my post of the last page.

What I think is really germane to the subject for us hobbyists in the real world is if any unbiased person or entity with no financial interest has done a valid comparison between mpeg-4 avc, vc-1 and mpeg-2 encoders at Blu-ray bitrates (which will most likely increase over time – as I think Sony has indicated in its press briefings) and resolutions from sources the studios are going to use, i.e. the masters.

The way this is practical for us hobbyists is in that I’m not referring to any theoretical improvements or differences, but I’m referring to actual perceived differences in all the codecs when you increase the MPEG-2 bitrate to the mid-twenties or so, higher than what is planned for the initial releases, I’ll grant you.

Since you are now treating me like a hostile witness :)
That’s not true :) -seems we just have that ole "great electrical divide creating a disconnect" that you referred to awhile back.I just don’t want our Qualian thread to be turned into another VC-1 vs all other codec war ground because some people would assume since Qualians inherently are Sony supporters they would hold onto an MPEG-2 or bust mentality, so we already are handicapped in any debate process to begin with; therefore it would be meaningless to continue.

Face it people, it's all about business both for Sony, HD-DVD and Microsoft. Microsoft is interested in making money out of their codecs, and Sony is interested in spending less on codecs.

So when these b*stards start preaching on other threads keep in mind that they do have a vested interest and you’ve got to take everything they say with a grain of salt because they tend to omit certain relevant details when they plead their case or compare apples to oranges.

until a couple of weeks ago i had not even known that sony was planning on using mpeg2, i really find that mystifying but for the fact that it allows them to save money by not having to reencode everything that they have/are already encoded(ing) for broadcast mediums, including satellite.

i know nothing about vc-1, although i will in short order out of necessity. up until now i've been basing my discussions on avc as that is the standard i am presently familiar with.

the other thing is that sony doesn't stand to save money on codecs but quite the contrary they stand to make a lot of money, or at least continue to make a lot of money, off of the mpeg2 codec! i don't like my a/v gear to be compromised by such considerations.

so really for sony it is about saving money by not having to reencode, making more or holding onto their mpeg2 licensing revenues AND justifying these higher capacity bd discs.

again, up until this month i didn't know about this mpeg2 nonsense and couldn't figure out why they would need so much capacity because after all nothing comes for free and i certainly wouldn't expect them to suddenly give us 50gb of movie and extras on a disc.

but everything became crystal clear when i learned of the use of mpeg2 at such high rates...that is why they need the larger discs and then they market it as an advantage...lol

anyhow, i certainly don't want this to be a thread that attracts those arguments, but i will maintain that i, personally as an enthusiast, wish to get the next best thing in video encoding, whether it be avc, vc-1 or something else as advanced, i just don't want mpeg2 on our brand new hd formats. so i hope that those studios already encoding with avc or vc-1 wil use the same justification that sony is using by sticking to mpeg2 and release on blu ray using either avc or vc-1.

just keep bringing me bigger and better toys that use new technology, is that too much for a guy to ask for? he with the most toys wins is the male credo! :D

i will have to see if i can determine what percentage of mpeg2 royalties sony takes from the mpeg2 license. i know they have patents covering both avc and vc-1 as well!

BUT she does kinda remind me of my Calculus teacher if she had had shorter hair.

jb, thanks for the memory! :)

. . . And you went to school where? I obviously attended the "wrong" schools! :D

until a couple of weeks ago i had not even known that sony was planning on using mpeg2.

Information on AVC from Wikipedia

Applications

Both of the major candidate next-generation DVD rival formats planned for product deployment in 2006 include the H.264/AVC High Profile as a mandatory player feature — specifically:

The HD-DVD format of the DVD Forum
The Blu-ray Disc format of the Blu-Ray Disc Association (BDA)

The Digital Video Broadcast (DVB) standards body in Europe approved the use of H.264/AVC for broadcast television in Europe in late 2004.

The prime minister of France, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, announced the selection of H.264/AVC as a requirement for receivers of HDTV and pay TV channels for digital terrestrial broadcast television services (referred to as "TNT") in France in late 2004.

The Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) standards body in the United States is considering the possibility of specifying one or two advanced video codecs for its optional Enhanced-VSB (E-VSB) transmission mode for use in U.S. broadcast television. It has included H.264/AVC and VC-1 into Candidate Standards (CS/TSG-659r1 and CS/TSG-658) for this purpose.

From a review of the Toshiba Hd-DVD player
Wacky audio

I understand this to mean that if you connect the HD DVD player feed to the Q via HDMI the optical or coaxial line out can not carry a high enough bit rate so your audio feed to your receiver is only PCM. So no high resolution Dolby or DTS.
The Full Review (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6510291-1.html?tag=nl.e722)

Stew

I’m not exactly sure what you mean -plus that, I haven’t keep up with the nuances of the HD DVD audio stuff since the audio stuff is too complicated for my little mind, it’s difficult enough just to keep up with the video stuff, and I’m not joking here.

Stew, are you saying that you believe that the Optical SPDIF digital and the Coax SPDIF digital lines can’t transmit the “high resolution Dolby or DTS” from the Toshiba player to your receiver?

Apparently NOT (meaning, you need an HDMI receiver to take advantage of the best sound), from what I’ve read, but I may get a chance to attend a little shindig in Burbank in a couple of weeks that FilmMixer is holding so, I’ll ask a person far more knowledgeable than me if I do stop by there.

I can tell you guys some audio stuff about the initial Sony and MGM titls that you may be unaware of which I think a lot of people will find a mixed blessing(at best) and Sony haters will dwell on with passion in the weeks to come.

The initial Sony and MGM titles according to Donnie E. over at Sony Pictures apparently won’t even have the new Dolby and DTS higher definition audio formats – so Stew you just won’t have to even worry about those. :D But I think it’s a moot point anyway because what I’ve read here on the forum none of the Blu-ray players will even include the necessary audio decoders to take advantage of the new Dolby and DTS higher definition audio formats anyway.

BUT, and this is a big but for people that don’t care to run out and upgrade their receivers for awhile because all Sony and MGM titles will include both conventional Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks and the DTS track will be at a data rate of 1.5Mb/sec. Apparently, all DTS DVD tracks except for a few released in the early days of DVD have been at half that rate. So, theoretically, the sound on these titles should still sound better :) (much better?) than it did with the sound of these titles on the old DVDs even though it won’t be incorporating the advanced audio high definition formats.

I don’t know what the data rate will be for Dolby Digital. It could end up being the maximum of 640Kb/sec, which is higher than the 448Kb/sec commonly used on regular DVDs – so THAT also should sound better. :)

I think this was all reported awhile back by somebody in the CE press after attending one of the Culver City information/propaganda sessions – I just can’t remember the original author and a lot of this info was given in a Q&A after the Blu-ray showing.

The BEST sound may actually come from additional audio pearl on all the initial Sony and MGM releases which is 5.1-channels of uncompressed PCM audio so you would have to hook up six separate analog audio cables from the outputs on the players to the outputs on the receiver.

The downside of that (for me) is that zee wife knows how much a DVI/ HDMI cable I bought(for my stb) cost and she’ll poke around and find out that I may well get six analog cables and since she can multiply, I can just hear it now………………
“$100 without shipping and tax for some spaghetti cables that you couldn’t hear the difference in sound anyway from since you’re purty deef from all those years of motor-sickle racing.” :eek:

. . . And you went to school where? I obviously attended the "wrong" schools! :D
Hint………………..
Back in 1962? a President named John F. Kennedy in describing a dinner for Nobel Prize winners at the White House said…………………..


“This is probably the greatest concentration of talent and genius in this house except for perhaps those times when Thomas Jefferson ate alone.”


So thee answer to your question is………………

T.J.'s ole stompin ground, also referred to as................

THE University or …………………



University of Virginia. :)

Where I must say I received a broad well-rounded education. :D

NEVER let zee wife multiply! Buy the cables at a local store (pay cash) and hook them up after she has gone to sleep. If she sees them tell her they came with the tv (or some other component) and you never got around to hooking them (for whatever reason).

Good luck Mr. Phelps!

NEVER let zee wife multiply! Buy the cables at a local store (pay cash) and hook them up after she has gone to sleep. If she sees them tell her they came with the tv (or some other component) and you never got around to hooking them (for whatever reason).

Good luck Mr. Phelps!

Ron, you are cut from the same cloth as me :D Recall I was the guy that slipped the Q in under the wife's nose :)

Of course she later found out the details...women have a way of bringing details like this up over, and over, AND OVER again ;) sorry sophie, i'm sure since you are a lawyer you are not the typical woman ... you understand the principles of res judicata and collateral estoppel :)

everytime i get new gear shipped to my house, i tell the wife that it's a free replacement for a component that went bad.

i too have waited until the wife has gone to bed before bringing new gear into the house :D

I guess that's why I'm single and purchase whatever the heck I desire! :D

Anyone hear from DiveDude? It sure has been a while!

Anyone hear from DiveDude? It sure has been a while!

kaduku as well

Or until recently me for about a year.

nope, my initial thought was right, sony has a butt-load of mpeg2 patents (http://www.mpegla.com/m2/m2-att1.pdf) from which they derive much licensing revenue...nothing like the tail wagging the dog.

I’m not exactly sure what you
“$100 without shipping and tax for some spaghetti cables that you couldn’t hear the difference in sound anyway from since you’re purty deef from all those years of motor-sickle racing.” :eek:

I admit this may be a quick and dirty solution but... I am thinking of just using 2 sets of highish quality component video cables to do the work of my 5.1 setup. I imagine that will do the trick as after going over a quick check for what is in the audio cables they appear to be basically the same with the component video tending to be a bit better shielded. How is that for a simplish solution to the 5.1 cable issue (plus since they come in 3's it makes for less hassle lining things up - top row cable and bottom row cable).

i know nothing about vc-1, although i will in short order out of necessity. up until now i've been basing my discussions on avc as that is the standard i am presently familiar with.

Well that’s good news :) because even Amir concedes the fact that on some of the tests conducted by the DVD forum AVC(a.k.a. MPEG-4 to those not familiar with this stuff :) ) did prove inferior to MPEG-2 suggesting further refinement is needed before THAT codec becomes the Holy Grail for the studios.

I agree with you that technically MPEG-4 is far more advanced than mpeg-2 and therefore should blast it out of the water but specs and the performance of actual implementations in the real world are different things.

The real-world test will be when Sony has a large collection of titles on 50 GB discs on the shelves for us to compare... perhaps then the MPEG-2 bitrates will be high enough so there are no consumer visible artifacts and there is no excuse for not including a lossless high resolution track or even an uncompressed high resolution LPCM track – of which only one of the HD DVD titles that’s been released can make that claim.

but everything became crystal clear when i learned of the use of mpeg2 at such high rates...that is why they need the larger discs and then they market it as an advantage...lol

I don’t believe the value of Blu-ray 50Gb discs is simply to necessitate/endorse the need for Sony’s preferred MPEG-2 codec but, from the hobbyists point of view,the benefit of the 50Gb disc will guarantee for the future that studios have sufficient space for top-fidelity lossless audio on the longest movies meaning lossless 24/48 tracks could present a problem for movies at >3hrs on HD-DVD.

Such movies on HD-DVD will probably have to sacrifice some audio fidelity on their lossless tracks. Not to mention the fact that you know studios will use up more and more valuable space with their commentaries and other related fluff that true movie freaks could care less about which will further compromise the capacity of the HD-DVD’s capacity.

As an ending thought, not to worry Ben, at the Sony slide show that I referred to above, Sony big-wigs admitted that further development of AVC and VC-1 might provide a better movie picture for us hobbyists no matter what data rates of MPEG-2 they employ and when that occurs “We (Sony) will begin using them.”

I thought that was quite conciliatory on their part to even offer that concession given the fact that MPEG-2 costs them essentially nothing.

Advanced codecs will eventually occur with Sony titles it is probably just a matter of time. Think of the future rather than just beyond the tip of the nose. Let’s get the ultimate space first (Blu-ray 50Gb discs) and then concentrate on procuring the ultimate codec.

Ben - Uh, just thought I would let you know that I'm a guy, Sophie is my daughter. A few years ago when my wife explained what a screen name was, she suggested I use something that I wouldn't forget or that I really liked . . .

Sorry for any confusion, but look at this way, once a buddy of mine in the backseat of a Camaro found out that someone he thought was a woman turned out to be a man, and it was a whole lot more unpleasant than this :)

Ben - Uh, just thought I would let you know that I'm a guy, Sophie is my daughter. ...snip..

We're going to need some therapy. :eek:

Sophie, its time to change that screen name to maybe something like "Gotcha".

Ben - Uh, just thought I would let you know that I'm a guy, Sophie is my daughter. A few years ago when my wife explained what a screen name was, she suggested I use something that I wouldn't forget or that I really liked . . .

Sorry for any confusion, but look at this way, once a buddy of mine in the backseat of a Camaro found out that someone he thought was a woman turned out to be a man, and it was a whole lot more unpleasant than this :)


LOL

...


The real-world test will be when Sony has a large collection of titles on 50 GB discs on the shelves for us to compare...


Absolutely, and I can't wait for them to start delivering, whether it be a player first from Samsung/Sony or a high end player from Pioneer...I hope we see a dual player, but I'm not to optimistic on that front just yet.

Honestly, I don't need lossless audio on my video titles...i know that may be blasphem to some, but I just don't need it...HD-DVD has plenty of headroom for the lossless audio, especially when the file sizes of the movies can be up to 1/4 the size, but again, i just don't need it, YMMV

...

Not to mention the fact that you know studios will use up more and more valuable space with their commentaries and other related fluff that true movie freaks could care less about which will further compromise the capacity of the HD-DVD’s capacity.

As an ending thought, not to worry Ben, at the Sony slide show that I referred to above, Sony big-wigs admitted that further development of AVC and VC-1 might provide a better movie picture for us hobbyists no matter what data rates of MPEG-2 they employ and when that occurs “We (Sony) will begin using them.”

I thought that was quite conciliatory on their part to even offer that concession given the fact that MPEG-2 costs them essentially nothing.

Advanced codecs will eventually occur with Sony titles it is probably just a matter of time. Think of the future rather than just beyond the tip of the nose. Let’s get the ultimate space first (Blu-ray 50Gb discs) and then concentrate on procuring the ultimate codec.


I can count on one hand the number of extras I've watched :)

I don't believe that with more space Hollywood would just gratuitously offer more and more extras...they already hate that crap...at least many of the actors do from what I understand.

I don't think these codecs need more work to be better than MPEG-2, IMHO, they are better NOW and I see it by what I now have on these HD-DVD titles at relatively low bitrates in comparison. The proof is in the pudding, and right now I've got one batch...I'll be open to see what they can do with high bitrates and MPEG-2 as I have never owned/seen DVHS, but I am highly doubtful...I am a pessimist.

Post #400! WOO HOO!!!

The mathematician in me is definitely leaning towards Sony on this one. Theoretically, at a bitrate of 1.2Gbps, there can't possibly be any difference between any 2 codecs, because either one is essentially uncompressed.

The rule of thumb then becomes that as bitrates rise, the differences in codecs become less and less important. As Penton-Man says, at 40Mbps, MPEG4 may not really offer anything visibly better.

MPEG2 has one other advantage that MPEG4 doesn't w.r.t. our Qualia 006's: The Qualia can decode MPEG2 (including 1080p) via the i.Link inputs. It doesn't know anything about MPEG4.

The practical meaning of this is that if Sony (or anyone) makes a Blu-Ray player with i.Link outputs, we can get 1080p on our sets today. If they abandon MPEG2, then i.Link output isn't even a possibility. Then we're either hoping for an HDMI upgrade for the 006, or living with 3:2 inverse telecine (which the Qualia and very few others can do at 1080i) and the sound delays that go along with it. Or buying a new TV (something Mrs. Zechman will NOT allow, I promise you!)

I suppose another reason Sony is hanging on to MPEG2 for Blu-Ray is that they plan for BRD to be integrated into many other products, including HD camcorders. If encoding MPEG4 is more CPU intensive than MPEG2, then that could mean throughput issues and additional heat & battery drain from a faster CPU on the camcorder, which may not be practical.

As for 50GB vs. 30GB per disk, don't forget that we computer geeks are out there looking for a high-capacity optical disk format for ordinary data usage. In fact, I'm looking forward to the advent of 8-layer (that's 200GB!) BD-R's, something the HD-DVD camp hasn't even hinted at.

--Dwayne

WOW -- if this comes to pass maybe I should sell my USGP tix and watch it at home on the Qualia!?! ;) Of course, just because they record the race in HD does NOT mean it will be available for HD viewing in the US of A. :mad: Something to do with a Mr. Ecclestone, I think, and the fact that Speed Channel does not have the capability to distribute HD content. :mad: :mad:



True ... but CBS is so equipped and they have 3 more races this year, "if you can tolerate the boys in the booth" .... WOW are they less than up to the Speed Channel guys or what? :rolleyes:

FOX should really give it's Speed Channel the HD boost. :mad:

sorry sophie, i'm sure since you are a lawyer you are not the typical woman ...

You can say that again!!!! :p

FYI - Comcast did a download at 3:00 am to it's boxes a few nights ago (software upgrade I believe) here in Ct, (at least in the New Haven area). Not sure if this was a national thing.

Now my Moto 6408 displays everything in green. My blues are medium green and the whites are a very pretty mint green! This includes movies on the DVR that were recorded weeks ago.

Stopped by Comcast in Branford and picked up a spankin' new 6412 (2 tuner). I asked for and received one of the few "version III" they had. This has the hardware upgrade. The HDMI works and there should be no handshake issue with the Q. I will hook it up soon. I still have a couple of things to watch on my 6408. I may decide to deal with the green picture just to catch up.

My DirecTv HD Tivo still works great of course.

22 days till UMR...

Ben - Uh, just thought I would let you know that I'm a guy, Sophie is my daughter.
To quote Austin Powers, "She's a man, man!"...
It's "The Crying Game: The Qualia Edition"...
:D

True ... but CBS is so equipped and they have 3 more races this year, "if you can tolerate the boys in the booth" .... WOW are they less than up to the Speed Channel guys or what? :rolleyes:

FOX should really give it's Speed Channel the HD boost. :mad:
Well, I watched the San Marino GP on CBS -- in glorious SD...

The US broadcasters are handed the feed from F1. Though you can get a HD telecast in Europe, they're not (so far) giving us the HD feed. :mad:

Ben - Uh, just thought I would let you know that I'm a guy, Sophie is my daughter.
I knew ! :p

Granted it took me awhile to figure it out after initially complementing sophie on “her” beautiful name when “she” first appeared; however, I think that if you read Sophie’s posts carefully it sounds like he writes like a dude rather than a chick.

Plus, think about it people, if Sophie was a “she” don’t you think that “she” would have either disappeared long ago or driven all of us sex-craved videophiles outa here by now, with probably yours truly at the head of the line? :o

Honestly, I thought “Sophie” was in honor of either his Mom :) or his GrandMa :) and I didn’t want to pursue the subject as I figured it was too personal.

I may have had an *edge* on you guys with this reasoning because when my Mom passed from cancer, I shortly thereafter took up mountain bike racing and in honor of her, had my license issued using her maiden name as my last name so as to always remember her when I would go to any venue to pick up my race packet (kinda inspires me to pedal faster :) ) or afterwards to see my name on some results page.

Now, given all of the above, if RonB63 informs me that it was NOT his beautiful wife writing to me on this forum many pages back and it was indeed himself just imitating his wife………….I WILL freak out ! :eek:

Post #400! WOO HOO!!!
--Dwayne
Congrats on the milestone, hopefully many more to come ! :)

yeah but chicks that are lawyers write like assertive men, that is why they became lawyers :)

i can say that now without fearing reprisals from female q owners ;) unless of course mrs ron takes issue then i'm toast!

We're going to need some therapy. :eek:

Sophie, its time to change that screen name to maybe something like "Gotcha".
:eek: :D :cool: This place is too funny!

...

MPEG2 has one other advantage that MPEG4 doesn't w.r.t. our Qualia 006's: The Qualia can decode MPEG2 (including 1080p) via the i.Link inputs. It doesn't know anything about MPEG4.

The practical meaning of this is that if Sony (or anyone) makes a Blu-Ray player with i.Link outputs, we can get 1080p on our sets today. If they abandon MPEG2, then i.Link output isn't even a possibility. Then we're either hoping for an HDMI upgrade for the 006, or living with 3:2 inverse telecine (which the Qualia and very few others can do at 1080i) and the sound delays that go along with it. Or buying a new TV (something Mrs. Zechman will [B]NOT allow, I promise you!)


...


Zech, while I'd love this to be true, I don't think the S400 i.Link connections we have on the Qualia have anywhere near the bandwidth that will be necessary, especially if they jack the MPEG2 bitrate way up...not to mention who knows if the internal MPEG2 decoder can handle an MPEG2 stream at such a high bitrate :(

suffice it to say, content is on the discs at 1080p24...output to 1080i60 to the Q...perfectly recreated 1080p24 on the Q screen :D

Zech, while I'd love this to be true, I don't think the S400 i.Link connections we have on the Qualia have anywhere near the bandwidth that will be necessary, especially if they jack the MPEG2 bitrate way up...not to mention who knows if the internal MPEG2 decoder can handle an MPEG2 stream at such a high bitrate :(

suffice it to say, content is on the discs at 1080p24...output to 1080i60 to the Q...perfectly recreated 1080p24 on the Q screen :D

I have no idea if Sony can handle 1080p over i.Link at this time, but it does not look impossible. Don't rule out Sony putting an MPEG2 encoder in their players to output MPEG2 for backward compatibility.

Here is a chip that could be in these displays. 400 Mbs seems plenty fast to do the job.

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tsb41ab3.pdf

The MPEG decoder in these displays is an ATI X226. This is the same chip Samsung is using in sets that are supposedly able to handle a 1080p input.

ATI – 2 HD streams or multiple SD streams Competitors - 1 HD stream or 1 SD stream
Digital cable, satellite, and terrestrial movies are delivered in a digital (MPEG) format, and therefore require an MPEG decoder to display video on a television set. Xilleon™ 220 is the first high-definition (1920x1080) MPEG decoder with integrated high performance CPU and I/O support and one of the first chips capable of decoding two high-definition MPEG data streams.

Xilleon™ 220 also has the capability to decode multiple standard-definition MPEG streams leading to exciting capabilities like the simulcast of several camera angles during sporting events.

I haven’t keep up with the nuances of the HD DVD audio stuff since the audio stuff is too complicated for my little mind, it’s difficult enough just to keep up with the video stuff, and I’m not joking here.

Jeff,
I’m glad you’re still here reading and keeping up with us Qualians :) because in regards to the quote above…………………

Eventually when our schedules coincide, I am going to need ALOT of audio tweaking from you given the offerings of these Hi-Def formats so, I hope you bring your Thinking Cap when you come over !

Jeff,
I’m glad you’re still here reading and keeping up with us Qualians :) because in regards to the quote above…………………

Eventually when our schedules coincide, I am going to need ALOT of audio tweaking from you given the offerings of these Hi-Def formats so, I hope you bring your Thinking Cap when you come over !

I am definitely trying to keep up with the new audio formats and the challenges of calibrating them. At this time it appears the Toshiba player has a few issues depending on how you interface to it. It also appears that there are some authoring problems with respect to levels.

stewman and others that may be bewildered with all of this new audio alphabet soup nomenclature and significance, I think that the below( which I just read) on The Digital Bits and was recently posted there gives a purty good summary of the stuff for a quick catch-up to speed…………….

First up is Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1. In general, it should sound better than current DTS and actually something close to the quality of DVD-Audio and SACD (once we've got the hardware to fully take advantage of it). Currently, to enjoy the full resolution equivalent of Plus 5.1, you can either connect the player to your receiver via the analog 5.1 outputs or via an HDMI connection (although few receivers come equipped with HDMI audio capability as yet), in which case your player will decode the Plus 5.1 bitstream and convert it to LPCM 5.1 to be read by your receiver as such. The other choice you have, is you can connect your player to the receiver via the digital Toslink (optical) or coax outputs that most of us have been using for years now. Unfortunately, in this case, the HD-A1 decodes the Plus 5.1 bitstream and re-encodes it as DTS 5.1, which is then passed to your receiver (the receiver recognizes the bitstream as DTS accordingly). You're still getting a great audio experience, but it's not full Plus resolution, because DTS has a lower bitrate. It's sort of a half-assed solution that the Toshiba engineers came up with, but that's what they came up with.

Next up is Dolby TrueHD 5.1. This should sound not only significantly better than Plus 5.1, but even better than DVD-Audio and SACD - potentially as much as three times better, in fact (but again, only once we've got the hardware to fully take advantage of it). Currently, it's impossible to enjoy TrueHD on the HD-A1, because the HD-A1 only supports 2-channel decoding of TrueHD. The best you're going to get out of the HD-A1, via any connection, is stereo audio converted to either LPCM (via HDMI or analog outputs) or DTS (via the Toslink and coax digital outputs), neither of which is going to be full TrueHD resolution.

Finally, there's DTS-HD (which should roughly equate to the quality of Dolby TrueHD, although there's no software available yet and few official specs yet either). This will again be converted to either LPCM or DTS by the HD-A1, depending on which output you use with your receiver, and again this will not be full resolution either.

So the basic problem with all of these audio formats, is that there's currently no hardware available - either HD-DVD players or surround sound receivers - that supports them all fully yet. This will change starting later this year, when players and receivers fully compatible with Plus, TrueHD and DTS-HD are released, equipped with specific HDMI 1.3 connections. Current HDMI connections don't actually allow for the full-bandwidth capabilities of True HD and DTS-HD (and Toslink and either digital or analog coax connections don't have the bandwidth to allow them period). So to experience full-resolution, multi-channel audio via Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD, you'll eventually NEED to upgrade to new hardware equipped with HDMI 1.3 - both your player AND your receiver. Is it any wonder why we've told most of you to just wait on HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc? Even if you do buy an HD-DVD player now, you'll STILL have to buy another player later on if you want the full audio capability!

Sony, recognizing all of these audio incompatibilities and the potential for confusion, is not even including Dolby Digital-Plus, Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD on their early Blu-ray Disc software. Instead, they're simply encoding the audio on their initial Blu-ray titles in high-resolution LPCM 5.1, until such a time as the hardware catches up. FYI, PCM audio is the same basic format that's been used for existing music CDs for many years, except that it can also be encoded in high-resolution bitrates and can support multi-channel audio in addition to just the common 2.0 stereo found on CDs. Current multi-channel receiver should all be able to accept an LPCM 5.1 signal and drive your speakers with it, just as they currently can with stereo CD audio.


They also did a quickie review of Apollo 13 which may be of interest to you astronuts out there….

Speaking of honesty and HD-DVD, I suppose I should admit that I had my first genuinely thrilling experience with the format last night. Universal's Apollo 13 HD-DVD showed up on my doorstep yesterday, and I'll tell you... the film looks and sounds better than I've EVER seen it before. Universal is really doing a beautiful job with their high-definition transfers and mastering. I suspect Apollo 13 also benefits from the work that was done a few years ago to create an IMAX version - the digital clean-up, etc (no worries though, the film is full length and 2.35:1 widescreen, as it should be). Anyway, I was VERY impressed with this disc... despite the fact that our Toshiba HD-A1 locked up not once but twice over the course of the evening. The first time, the glitch only lasted a moment, and I was able to get it to continue playing normally. The second time, when I was showing my wife how good the film looked naturally, it locked up completely and I had to unplug and reboot the player to get it going again. Go figure.

Rest assured, we'll have reviews of Apollo 13, Doom and Million Dollar Baby up in the next day or two.

Now, given all of the above, if RonB63 informs me that it was NOT his beautiful wife writing to me on this forum many pages back and it was indeed himself just imitating his wife………….I WILL freak out ! :eek:

That is simply not possible because I guess I would first have to get her permission to pull such a heinous prank! :o

I am afraid that she could not resist poking her nose into our manly world filled with manly toys!!

I am afraid that she could not resist poking her nose into our manly world filled with manly toys!!
Thank goodness for that as I was moved by her original request. :)

Plus, over time, I believe I can tell the difference in internet posting between a man and a woman that happens to be an attorney and a Q006 owner, as my sis is the later. ;)

Believe me, you CAN’T get much more assertive than Georgetown Law and then a few years later onto White House staff. :eek:

...Believe me, you CAN’T get much more assertive than Georgetown Law and then a few years later onto White House staff. :eek:

I bet my retired SEAL brother in-law might give rher a run for her money.

umr,
When you do eventually get over to my humble abode, I will only have ONE pic of her hanging out with the President because she already gets too much face time in our house being in all the family photos !!!!

P.S.
I wonder how many people actually know or remember that there were Navy Seals in Viet Nam - despite all the recent craze in the movies and on television about Navy Seals and elite fighting groups like Delta.....not to say your brother-in-law fought in Nam.

I have no idea if Sony can handle 1080p over i.Link at this time, but it does not look impossible. Don't rule out Sony putting an MPEG2 encoder in their players to output MPEG2 for backward compatibility.

Here is a chip that could be in these displays. 400 Mbs seems plenty fast to do the job.

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tsb41ab3.pdf

The MPEG decoder in these displays is an ATI X226. This is the same chip Samsung is using in sets that are supposedly able to handle a 1080p input.

thanks umr, you've rekindled that light at the end of my qualia tunnel. with zech throwing out all those Gbps numbers i forgot that it would be the encoded bitstream being piped in to the q and not the decoded output. so of course your right in saying that the s400 connections on the q should be enough to cope with high bitrate mpeg2 and maybe even high res audio.

do you really think that they would put a high end mpeg2 encoder in the bd player to reencode content not on the disc in mpeg2?

i would have to believe that that would require some high end resources and might be quite pricey...but bring it on, that would be great if they could send that over i.link.

i really want one of the 1/2g players to have digital audio out via 1394/i.link so that i can use one wire to connect it to my z9.

stewman and others that may be bewildered with all of this new audio alphabet soup nomenclature and significance, I think that the below( which I just read) on The Digital Bits and was recently posted there gives a purty good summary of the stuff for a quick catch-up to speed?????.



pm, it's great that you're trying to help these fellow q owners out re the new audio alphabet soup, but that passage is riddled with technical inaccuracies/inconsistencies...maybe even purposely so since that digirag is very pro bd and very anti hd-dvd (so he subtly is talking trash about the other format ;)), but i think you knew all that since you have a pretty good b/s meter.

from reading over on the audio hd-dvd threads, most importantly it doesn't appear that hdmi 1.3 is needed for the new formats.

talk to filmixer on that one, he seems to be up on it and has had some discussions with roger dressler from dd labs. there is a good whitepaper authore by dressler linked over there that i'll try to post here if i can find it.

For the high resolution audio formats I don't see where HDMI 1.3 is needed either. HDMI 1.1 or i.Link can fit the bill if they will support it. What you want is the multi-channel PCM stream. I would like to see i.Link supported for audio with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, but it does not sound good. I was talking with an engineer who is in the know who says HDCP is the only thing being discussed for protecting these formats. It sounds like 5C is out and so is i.Link for these new formats. I encouraged him to pressure Dolby and DTS to allow i.Link, but it does not sound good. I have also heard that HDMI is a mess from these same sources which is also what I am seeing in the field. Only time will tell on how this will turn out.

I hope Sony does include an MPEG-2 encoder. With their work on HD Video cameras it seems like they might be ahead of the curve on this one. You should note that the player would not be required to be very efficient at compressing the signal with the bandwidth available on i.Link.

Here is an article that might cheer you up on the quality of MPEG-2 compression with higher bit rates. Note the reference to progressive formats in the article. It is my understanding that interlaced sources are what drives MPEG-2 nuts. Drop that and you may have a new ball game.

http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/12/22/megapeg.mpeg.2.encoder

pm, it's great that you're trying to help these fellow q owners out re the new audio alphabet soup, but that passage is riddled with technical inaccuracies/inconsistencies...maybe even purposely so since that digirag is very pro bd and very anti hd-dvd (so he subtly is talking trash about the other format ;)), but i think you knew all that since you have a pretty good b/s meter.

Come, come Ben, I think you have spent WAY too much time on the HD DVD threads and you’re now assigning malicious motivations for innocent inaccuracies.

The author was innocently rehashing what Josh Lehman (a.k.a. as DocDVD on this forum) had said in this article……………………http://www.digitalaudiovideo.com/editorial.htm

Maybe in location you can put "A Guy in Florida"! :D

Ben - Uh, just thought I would let you know that I'm a guy, Sophie is my daughter. A few years ago when my wife explained what a screen name was, she suggested I use something that I wouldn't forget or that I really liked . . .

Sorry for any confusion, but look at this way, once a buddy of mine in the backseat of a Camaro found out that someone he thought was a woman turned out to be a man, and it was a whole lot more unpleasant than this :)

Speaking of honesty and HD-DVD, I suppose I should admit that I had my first genuinely thrilling experience with the format last night.

Where did I miss that you purchased a Toshiba HD-DVD player ?

Where did I miss that you purchased a Toshiba HD-DVD player ?
Stew, I guess I should have put what Digital Bits said in quotes to make it clear what they were writing and what were my words.

What you are referring to was written by who Ben refers to as the “very pro bd and very anti hd-dvd (so he subtly is talking trash about the other format)” guy who is actually complementing an HD DVD movie from my reading.

My only words in the above post are in paragraphs #1(stewman and others that may be bewildered, etc.)

and paragraph #7 (They also did a quickie review of Apollo 13 which may be of interest to you astronuts out there….)

It may have been clearer if I just provided you guys the link…….
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa119.html#hdaudio

but it’s a long read (at least for me) and I thought I would just paste the pertinent material for us.

In regards to HDMI 1.3, it seems like there is ALOT of confusion regarding this because it is a new and complex subject and only a very few people seem to have a good handle on it, like umr above, so in retrospect, I would take that part of the link to the above post with a grain of salt.

Otherwise, I don’t think percentage wise it contains any more technical inaccuracies than does the typical AVS forum post we read on any thread around here – probably far less. So, I do think it is a fairly good primer for those requiring a quick read into all this new audio stuff.

If I’m incorrect in that regard, well…………like I mentioned before, I have a rudimentary knowledge of this subject and thought I was just being helpful because The Digital Bits website is quoted in ALOT of threads on this forum in a complementary fashion.

Specifically in regards to your question, I haven’t purchased the Toshiba player because I just don’t feel the need to get into the HD game at this time. Maybe, just maybe if Universal put out “For the Love of the Game” with as excellent mastering as Apollo 13 described in The Digital Bits column and it came with a lossless audio tract, I would RUN to the nearest BB and purchase both the player and the movie because I like that movie and its sound tract so much. :)

yeah but chicks that are lawyers write like assertive men, that is why they became lawyers :)

i can say that now without fearing reprisals from female q owners ;) unless of course mrs ron takes issue then i'm toast!

Maybe, just maybe, I dropped the silent "h" from my REAL first name. What's that Beach Boy song again? Help me somebody...

Don't make me take off my apron cuz it'll get ugly! :D

Come, come Ben, I think you have spent WAY too much time on the HD DVD threads and you?re now assigning malicious motivations for innocent inaccuracies.

The author was innocently rehashing what Josh Lehman (a.k.a. as DocDVD on this forum) had said in this article????????http://www.digitalaudiovideo.com/editorial.htm

lol, maybe you are right as i have become weary of all the bd fanboys who have nothing better to do than to hang out on the hd-dvd threads and constantly try to slip in their misinformation, etc. i sincerely hope that when a player from the bd camp finally hits the market later this year that there won't be hd-dvd fanboys hanging out on the bd threads doing the same nonsensical posting.

anyhow, there are still definitely inconsistencies/inaccuracies in the digitalbits rehash (lost in translatio? :)).

go directly to the source and read josh's writeup, definitely a good read and accurate.only bit he overlooked, but didn't make it an inaccuracy/inconsistency, was that you don't need hdmi 1.3 if you let the player decode the trueHD/dtsHD/ddplus and pass the lpcm stream over to you receiver. hdmi 1.3 is required only if you want to pass the unencoded bitstream over to your avr/prepro and let it do the decoding.

what i was surprised to read in josh's article but i had heard rumblings about was that the bd standard only makes it OPTIONAL for a player to support any of the high res audio formats; i.e., trueHD, ddplus and dtsHD are all merely optional! so bd mfrs could stupidly decide to skimp and not include support for the high res audio formats...must be sony's way of hanging on to sacd?

that might make you scratch your head and say you mean if i pick up a bd title and it uses dtsHD or ddplus (this is not true of trueHD afaik) theni won't get any audio without there being another standard dd or dts track? well, dd labs and the dts folks have cleverly devised a way to allow standard dd and dts encoders found in everyday gear right now to decode a 'core' portion of the track...sweet :)

i'm not planning on upgrading my z9 anytime soon and since it has 7.1 analog inputs 'm covered by getting a later gen player from the hd-dvd/bd camps and use 7.1 analog outs. or, i can get a pre/pro that can take an hdmi 1.3 raw bitstream, decode it and send the output to my z9 via analog interconnects.

better still, if i can get a player/prepro that can decode any of the high end audio streams and send my z9 a lpcm stream via firewire/1394/aka i.link i would be purrrrrrfectly set! :D

read lehmen's writeup, much better, no game of 'telephone'

digitalbits is still VERY biased :D


i'm NEUTRAL and subscribe to the notion that this format war, IN THE END, will be good for us enthusiasts..might cost us a little extra dough along the way and we might end up with some pieces of equipment lying around (just place the loser atop your dvhs/sacd/dvd-a/sd-dvd players ;), but those toys still count toward the end game: the man who dies with the most toys wins! (direction giving 'toys' don't count pm! :D))

can someone enlighten me to the purpose of the hybird HD-DVD disc?

who is that marketed for?

only thing i can think of is for people thinking of buying a hd-dvd player in the future when the prices come down, but don't want to buy it twice?

to me it would make sense to switch to netflix for your movies until the time you are ready to buy a hd-dvd player/bray.

...i'm not planning on upgrading my z9 anytime soon and since it has 7.1 analog inputs 'm covered by getting a later gen player from the hd-dvd/bd camps and use 7.1 analog outs. or, i can get a pre/pro that can take an hdmi 1.3 raw bitstream, decode it and send the output to my z9 via analog interconnects...

I am not sure you are totally covered. I believe you may not get the benefit of equalization with that input depending on how you configure it. The following is a quote from the Z9 manual. Most receivers and processors do not process the analog multi-channel inputs. Anyone with who is equalizing their audio should consider using the digital inputs.

For 6.1/7.1-channel playback of multi-channel signals input through MULTI CH INPUT, select MULTI CH in the Input select menu, then set Input Channels to 5.1ch (6.1/7.1-channel processing using the PLIIx decoder) or 7.1ch (plays back external 7.1-channel signals as they are).

can someone enlighten me to the purpose of the hybird HD-DVD disc?

who is that marketed for?

only thing i can think of is for people thinking of buying a hd-dvd player in the future when the prices come down, but don't want to buy it twice?

to me it would make sense to switch to netflix for your movies until the time you are ready to buy a hd-dvd player/bray.

This makes sense to me. I purchased all anamorphic DVD's before I had a 16x9 display for the same reason.

I did the same. Now I am glad I did. It was like watching a New Movie or Show in the true 16x9 format . Remember for some at first they did not like getting away of the 4x3 to 16x9. I think if they already had the DVD's in 16x9 they would of got the Picture of How much better it is.

I am not sure you are totally covered. I believe you may not get the benefit of equalization with that input depending on how you configure it. The following is a quote from the Z9 manual. Most receivers and processors do not process the analog multi-channel inputs. Anyone with who is equalizing their audio should consider using the digital inputs.


i've got to do some reading on my Z9's analog processing, but I recall there is a "pure direct" mode which I had thought did as you state, i.e., pass the analog straight through.

maybe i can do equalization on 5.1 inputs but not 7.1, that would be a minor setback, but still wouldn't cause me to upgrade, just yet :)

damn umr, can't you leave me in the dark on some things ... you just want to calibrate my new avr when i get one ;)

i've got to do some reading on my Z9's analog processing, but I recall there is a "pure direct" mode which I had thought did as you state, i.e., pass the analog straight through.

maybe i can do equalization on 5.1 inputs but not 7.1, that would be a minor setback, but still wouldn't cause me to upgrade, just yet :)

damn umr, can't you leave me in the dark on some things ... you just want to calibrate my new avr when i get one ;)

Sorry about that. It is a problem I am working on.

It does look like using 5.1 would invoke the Z9 to process the input that is why I posted the quote. However, you will need to be careful in how you set the player to output 5.1 to avoid bass management problems. The current HD-DVD player also appears to have some serious issues with analog outputs that could be a challenge.

can someone enlighten me to the purpose of the hybird HD-DVD disc?

who is that marketed for?

only thing i can think of is for people thinking of buying a hd-dvd player in the future when the prices come down, but don't want to buy it twice?

to me it would make sense to switch to netflix for your movies until the time you are ready to buy a hd-dvd player/bray.

In addition to what others have opined, since there is so much space on the HD DVD, by including the SD version, you can now take that DVD with you to view while traveling in a car, plane, train or to watch over at a friend's house that doesn't have an HD DVD.

1st impressions of my Toshba HD-XA1 HD-DVD after 48hrs of ownership.

1.Worth the price. Very well built.
2.Audio alone is almost worth the price. (Via hdmi to Yamaha 4600..HDMI out set to PCM on the Toshiba) Apollo 13 and Last Samurai.
3.Actually upscales slightly better than my Pioneer 59avi! this caught me off guard. Picture consistantly looks slightly more detailed after doing direct comparisions of several movies.It does everything else at least as good as the 59avi.
4.Because the Pioneer has been doing such a fine job of upscaling, HDdiscs aren't THAT much superior. I don't really feel a void when I' watching my standard DVD's on either player.
5. I do get the occasional HDCP handshake error either at the player or the receiver. i am researching HDMI switchers to see if they may help eliminate the error msgs.
6. Load times are a bit slow, but not annoyingly so. (30-40 seconds)
7. Can't wait for LOTR to appear on HDDVD. i think New Line is an HDDVD only supporter. (according to latest S&V issue)
8. I will buy a 2nd generation Bluray player or recorder next year to compliment the Toshiba.. Pricing should be reasonable by then.

..

3.Actually upscales slightly better than my Pioneer 59avi! this caught me off guard. Picture consistantly looks slightly more detailed after doing direct comparisions of several movies.It does everything else at least as good as the 59avi.

...


That aspect caught me off guard too, especially given how much I spent on my Denon 3910!

...2.Audio alone is almost worth the price. (Via hdmi to Yamaha 4600..HDMI out set to PCM on the Toshiba) Apollo 13 and Last Samurai.....

This is what I was hoping for. :D

OT: I see the movie "Swordfish" is going to be released on HD-DVD on Tuesday. Hmm, I wonder, are there any scenes in that movie worth viewing in HD? :cool:

i don't know. if the hybird discs were the same price it would make sense, but they want $40 dollars for an obscure title!!!!!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E5KJH0/qid=1146272706/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/002-8325420-7583211?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130

I am wondering if any members in the San Diego area are using the Denon 5910? I am seeing a distressing amount of posterization, graininess, macroblocking, sunspots, or whatever you want to call it, in dark scenes. I find it to be very distracting and I am wondering if it is my Oppo DVD player, my 006, or just the DVDs (though I never noticed it in the past on my old television). I'd love to be able to see if the Denon corrects this problem at all.

So, if someone would allow me to visit them, and bring my Oppo to compare with the Denon -- which could be interesting and fun in a Tim Allen sort of way -- I would be most appreciative. Thanks!

Best regards,
David

By the way, my Oppo always travels with good wine or scotch.

OT: I see the movie "Swordfish" is going to be released on HD-DVD on Tuesday. Hmm, I wonder, are there any scenes in that movie worth viewing in HD? :cool:


you're kidding right? where did you get this info?

halle is right up there is jessica in my book :D

i know just the scene!

you're kidding right? where did you get this info?

halle is right up there is jessica in my book :D

i know just the scene!

Right Here (http://www.dvdtown.com/discdetails/swordfishhd-dvd/18889/) :p

Right Here (http://www.dvdtown.com/discdetails/swordfishhd-dvd/18889/) :p


thanks, i also popped over to amazon and noticed they have a whole slew of HD-DVD titles available for order/pre-order. they show swordfish with a release date of 5/2 as you pointed out.

i'm not sure if you were being sarcastic about swordfish, but i actually very much enjoyed that title and am looking forward to seeing it on HD-DVD...especially some of the tougher scenes with exploding building and shattering glass, etc.

thanks, i also popped over to amazon and noticed they have a whole slew of HD-DVD titles available for order/pre-order. they show swordfish with a release date of 5/2 as you pointed out.

i'm not sure if you were being sarcastic about swordfish, but i actually very much enjoyed that title and am looking forward to seeing it on HD-DVD...especially some of the tougher scenes with exploding building and shattering glass, etc.

Sarcasm? Did the :cool: give me away? Yes, in addition to some of the explosions, I do seem to recall a sun tanning scene ;).

Also, there has been some talk of the HD DVD hybrid discs going for $40. I'll tell you, the prices of DVDs varies widely. Tower records was extremely high, while Fry's was very low.

Oh well, in any event, it all looks purty dang good on the Q. :)

I am seeing a distressing amount of posterization, graininess, macroblocking, sunspots, or whatever you want to call it, in dark scenes.
Best regards,
David



Got the same problem on my 006 on every input and regardless of source. I have a service call for next week. By the way, I tried to change my lamp thinking that might work but the screws holding on the front cover would't budge.

Please don't flame me but it seems this forum is more about frivilous matters rather than helping out our fellow Qalians who have problems. I have reported the same problem in the past with very little response. I think this is a 006 problem that needs to be addressed. I have had my 006 calibrated by Eliab. I had the problem both before and after calibration. I have tried every setting imaginable and cannot fix this.

$15,000 for set and stand and I am not very happy.

Are any others seeing this problem?

Got the same problem on my 006 on every input and regardless of source. I have a service call for next week. By the way, I tried to change my lamp thinking that might work but the screws holding on the front cover would't budge.

Please don't flame me but it seems this forum is more about frivilous matters rather than helping out our fellow Qalians who have problems. I have reported the same problem in the past with very little response. I think this is a 006 problem that needs to be addressed. I have had my 006 calibrated by Eliab. I had the problem both before and after calibration. I have tried every setting imaginable and cannot fix this.

$15,000 for set and stand and I am not very happy.

Are any others seeing this problem?


i noticed 24 was very grainy the other night...but i was attributing that to the source...you think it is the Q's fault?

drfokos and bernster2001 . you have PM's.

Originally Posted by drfokos
I am seeing a distressing amount of posterization, graininess, macroblocking, sunspots, or whatever you want to call it, in dark scenes.
Got the same problem on my 006 on every input and regardless of source. I have a service call for next week.Are any others seeing this problem?
Please let us know what your service tech finds. Could you please clarify what you're seeing; I understand very well what you're describing but rarely experience it on my set. About the only time I see this effect is on scenes like the one in "Titanic" where the submarine is exploring the wreck. I'll have to check that again; since UMR calibrated my set it may handle that scene differently...

Which sources do you have hooked up to your set, and does this occur without regard to whether the source is HD or SD?

Thanks Hifi and BRT
I have a Comcast DCT 6412 hooked up via I-link and Hdmi. The 006 is also hooked up to big attic antenna for OTA. If I do an A-B comparison between OTA and Comcast there is no difference. 24 which I love is the worst. My $2000 Panny 42" commercial plasma smokes the 006 in pq on 24 with rich blacks with no artifacts via another DCT 6412. I know 24 is filmed in a grainy manner. So why the diff between the 006 and the plasma. Almost any broadcast with dark scenes is a disaster. I have even switched out the DCT 6412 for a new box with no change. I will be asking for a replacement if the tech cannnot remedy this.

What I am seeing is greenish or reddish splotches on the dark parts of screen. Dark portion of screen is very grainy. Colors in darker areas are way off.

I just remembered that when I saw the 006 for the first time at CES 2005, the fellow next to me commented that he would not get one because the pic was too grainy. I should have listened to him.

What I am seeing is greenish or reddish splotches on the dark parts of screen. Dark portion of screen is very grainy. Colors in darker areas are way off. I just remembered that when I saw the 006 for the first time at CES 2005, the fellow next to me commented that he would not get one because the pic was too grainy. I should have listened to him.
Jeff/UMR -- you've seen more of these sets than most of us mere mortals; can you chime in on this?

Jeff/UMR -- you've seen more of these sets than most of us mere mortals; can you chime in on this?


bernster2001

I have had my Q for almost 14 months. I have seen what you are describing on dark scenes usually when the background is a dark color other than black. The times I have experienced it are very rare. When UMR was here we saw it and I believe he attributed it to a highly compressed poor MPG2 signal.

Like you, I also have a Comcast DCT 6412 Plll hooked up both with HDMI and I-Link and can not tell the difference between it and OTA. Though every Comcast signal is always seen being played back from the hard drive recorder and not in realtime, Comcast has improved so much that you can almost never tell the difference between it and OTA. In fact, Comcast is so good now that switching between my HD C-band with a pristine signal from a source like Discovery HD can not be challenged.

Certain shows always exhibit pictures that are beautiful and almost 3D. Though you may have little interest in the shows, take time to watch PBS Soundstage, Fox American Idol, and David Letterman just for the picture quality. Fox American Idol which I believe is broadcast OTA in 780P and sent by Comcast at 1080i is exceptional for Fox. I have noticed that only on American Idol Fox turns off the center channel during the 5.1 sound broadcast.

I always watch my Q in the Pro mode as setup by UMR and always at the reduced power setting both during the day and at night. And I presently am using the original bulb with many many hours. My Q runs almost every day from 5 PM to after midnight.
I think the reason you do not see forum members discussing problems is because they hardly experience them. You will find them responding with great interest.

I often compare video on my Q, that I watch from a distance of about 10 feet, to my 20" HD PC computer screen which has greater resolution than the 1080p of the Q and the Q is better.

Stew

Stew,

Thanks for the response.

"Certain shows always exhibit pictures that are beautiful and almost 3D. Though you may have little interest in the shows, take time to watch PBS Soundstage, Fox American Idol, and David Letterman just for the picture quality."



There is no question that well lit shows such as American Idol, CSI Miami, Leno, Letterman, INHD, Discovery Channel and many movies on the premium channels are all a wow experience

"I always watch my Q in the Pro mode as setup by UMR and always at the reduced power setting both during the day and at night."

The reduced power setting helps but it is not a cure for me.

"The times I have experienced it are very rare. When UMR was here we saw it and I believe he attributed it to a highly compressed poor MPG2 signal."

Agreed that compression is a culprit. BUT I get this was too frequently to attribute it only to compression.

I am on UMR's calibration list when he does a South Florida trip.

Bernie

There are five factors that can contribute to these problems.

The first is color uniformity from 0 to 10 percent signal level. Early version SXRD did not track the color of gray well between these levels causing color shifts that will make low level mpeg blocks much more apparent.

Second, many sources have MPEG noise at low levels that are objectionable.

Third, the 10 to 8 bit processing found in this set is not very effective at smoothing out the noise. Well executed 12 bit processing does the trick. The new Sony VPL-VW100 has this along with better panels making low level MPEG noise much less of a problem.

Fourth, too high a gamma will exagerate MPEG artifacts.

Fifth, edge enhancement will enhance the MPEG artifacts as well.

There are five factors that can contribute to these problems.

The first is color uniformity from 0 to 10 percent signal level. Early version SXRD did not track the color of gray well between these levels causing color shifts that will make low level mpeg blocks much more apparent.

Second, many sources have MPEG noise at low levels that are objectionable.

Third, the 10 to 8 bit processing found in this set is not very effective at smoothing out the noise. Well executed 12 bit processing does the trick. The new Sony VPL-VW100 has this along with better panels making low level MPEG noise much less of a problem.

Fourth, too high a gamma will exagerate MPEG artifacts.

Fifth, edge enhancement will enhance the MPEG artifacts as well.


The first sounds like what you described as being the case on my set?

Originally Posted by drfokos
I am seeing a distressing amount of posterization, graininess, macroblocking, sunspots, or whatever you want to call it, in dark scenes.

I have the exact same symptoms as drfokos and bernster2001. My nightmare didn't start until my "Qbox" was replaced (thats another story) in January. That is when my Qualia fell apart when viewing shadow areas of dark scenes. noise,dithering,posterization,you name it. Happens with Dvds and Hdtv.I rarely,if ever, seen any of these symptoms previous to the Qbox replacement. So, after much time,headaches,convincing and complaining Sony is finally replacing my Q with the stipulation that if i see the same thing on the new set, i have to just suck it up. they were going to just replace the Q box again, but the first tech damaged a wiring harness (RF related only ) that doesn't even have a part number assigned to it.

UMR/Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. I wish I was smart enought to understand it completely. It seems that you are saying that the 006 has some inherent limitations that cause these problems. Can your calibration reduce or eliminate them? I am on your South Florida waiting list. When do you plan to make that trip?

In the interim, can you explain:

How do I reduce gamma?

What are edge enhancement controls other than sharpness that I should turnoff or reduce?

You stated: "The first is color uniformity from 0 to 10 percent signal level. Early version SXRD did not track the color of gray well between these levels causing color shifts that will make low level mpeg blocks much more apparent."

I had my gray scale calibrated. Does proper gray scale calibration eliminate this problem?


You also stated: "The new Sony VPL-VW100 has this along with better panels making low level MPEG noise much less of a problem."

Out of curiousity, what other better panels in your experience make low level MPEG noise less of a problem?

Bernie

UPDATE.......As of 3 hrs ago,i am officialy mpeg4 activated(Dish Network with new 622 HD DVR receiver) i now have 15 Voom channels,6 HD channels and 11 local HD channels for a grand total of 32. i do not have hbo or showtime HD. Picture looks at least as good as my 942 HD DVR receiver it replaced. Thie new receiver has an audio sync delay function that the 942 did not have. Nice! More to follow.

Originally Posted by drfokos
I am seeing a distressing amount of posterization, graininess, macroblocking, sunspots, or whatever you want to call it, in dark scenes.

Please let us know what your service tech finds. Could you please clarify what you're seeing; I understand very well what you're describing but rarely experience it on my set. About the only time I see this effect is on scenes like the one in "Titanic" where the submarine is exploring the wreck. I'll have to check that again; since UMR calibrated my set it may handle that scene differently...

Which sources do you have hooked up to your set, and does this occur without regard to whether the source is HD or SD?

I am using the Oppo971H DVD player via HDMI. I also had my set calibrated by Jeff (umr). On well lit scenes the picture is great, but on dark scenes, the walls, skies, faces, etc. just crawl with noise (typically red or green in hue). I was going to give an example of a movie but really, every movie has some dark scenes.

I know that umr feels that this is primarily the result of mpeg artifacts, but I have also heard about issues with the Faroudja scaler in the Oppo, hence my desire to try a different source. If it is caused by mpeg compression artifacts, can I expect the new HD players to be any better?

Thanks for everyone's thoghtful commentary.

David

Got the same problem on my 006 on every input and regardless of source. I have a service call for next week. By the way, I tried to change my lamp thinking that might work but the screws holding on the front cover would't budge.

Please don't flame me but it seems this forum is more about frivilous matters rather than helping out our fellow Qalians who have problems. I have reported the same problem in the past with very little response. I think this is a 006 problem that needs to be addressed. I have had my 006 calibrated by Eliab. I had the problem both before and after calibration. I have tried every setting imaginable and cannot fix this.

$15,000 for set and stand and I am not very happy.

Are any others seeing this problem?

Bernie, you were the first one to post settings for the Q006 over one year ago, which I, and I suspect others, used for a very long time (until my umr calibration :) ). No one here is going to flame you. I have seen some of what you describe, but not to the same extent.

I understand how frustrating it is when an expensive piece of equipment isn't functioning to your satisfaction. We've all been there. However, the slightly OT matters are what has kept this thread alive. Very, very few problems have arisen with the Q006 and certainly not enough to keep this thread going. That is most likely why you received little response.

I hope your situation gets resolved. I don't think the stand has anything to do with it :D

I hope your situation gets resolved. I don't think the stand has anything to do with it :D
I've found that the grayscale color uniformity on my stand is excellent. :D

--Dwayne

UMR/Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. I wish I was smart enought to understand it completely. It seems that you are saying that the 006 has some inherent limitations that cause these problems. Can your calibration reduce or eliminate them? I am on your South Florida waiting list. When do you plan to make that trip?

In the interim, can you explain:

How do I reduce gamma?

What are edge enhancement controls other than sharpness that I should turnoff or reduce?

You stated: "The first is color uniformity from 0 to 10 percent signal level. Early version SXRD did not track the color of gray well between these levels causing color shifts that will make low level mpeg blocks much more apparent."

I had my gray scale calibrated. Does proper gray scale calibration eliminate this problem?


You also stated: "The new Sony VPL-VW100 has this along with better panels making low level MPEG noise much less of a problem."

Out of curiousity, what other better panels in your experience make low level MPEG noise less of a problem?

Bernie

I will be in Florida in August.

It is rare for a Qualia to have too high of Gamma. I was mentioning this more for completeness than applicability to this display. Fixing gamma problems in the Qualia is a complex operation of modifying a table of values in the service mode. Early production models tend to have too low of gamma.

Gray scale calibration can make it worse or better it depends on how it is done. When I calibrate gray scale I do my best to not make things worse. This requires more skill than just putting an instrument on the display and adjusting gain and bias until 20 to 100 IRE track well.

Minimizing enhancement in the Qualia 006 requires a combination of service mode and user mode settings that are not within your control.

I have only seen two displays that minimize noise while retaining detail. One is the Sony VPL-VW100 and the other is the HL-Rxxxx Samsung 1080p displays. Both of these can track D65 from 0 to 100 percent with essentially perfect colors. They also both use 12 bit electronics that allow for smart interpolation between between levels. When setup properly the improvement is astounding. However, without a very complex service mode calibration the Samsung is very poor.

UMR/Jeff
Thanks for the reply.

Looks like I will wait to August for these adjustments.

Bernie

JB007

Is there anyway to calibrate the stand for more of a wow factor?

JB007

Is there anyway to calibrate the stand for more of a wow factor?

For $1,500 you think it would come with more bells & whistles (removable shelves, cooling fans, glowing ambient lighting), but I've found the best way to increase the WOW factor is to place HD Net bikini models on each side of the stand. I hope this helps. Good luck.

Update on Dish Vip622 mpeg4 sat receiver( for those on the fence )

it's been more than 24 hrs since the 622 was installed. I am amazed at the lack of compression artifacts this unit is displaying. i have yet to see anything worth mentioning! Much improved over the 942 hd receiver i had in this respect. This has to be the mpeg 4 compression scheme at work.Whatever it is, i'm very impressed with this receiver/PVR. The extra Voom channels are smoking (Visually). BTW, HD recording capability has increased from 25 to 30hrs over the 942. Dish on Demand is also a new feature on this receiver over the 942 along with the Audio sync (HD/SD) feature.

Update on Dish Vip622 mpeg4 sat receiver( for those on the fence )

it's been more than 24 hrs since the 622 was installed. I am amazed at the lack of compression artifacts this unit is displaying. i have yet to see anything worth mentioning! Much improved over the 942 hd receiver i had in this respect. This has to be the mpeg 4 compression scheme at work.Whatever it is, i'm very impressed with this receiver/PVR. The extra Voom channels are smoking (Visually). BTW, HD recording capability has increased from 25 to 30hrs over the 942. Dish on Demand is also a new feature on this receiver over the 942 along with the Audio sync (HD/SD) feature.

Would you very critically compare a good HD OTA picture to the Dish picture.
Were you ever able to compare it to HD cable.

Would you very critically compare a good HD OTA picture to the Dish picture.
Were you ever able to compare it to HD cable.

1.I have compared it to OTA HD for an hour or 2. It is at least its equal. i want to check out Jay Leno though. i will get back with you on comparisons.

2.I don't believe cable can hold a candle to it. i used to have HD cable(Adelphia) a few years ago (Forgot the Cable box model).I then switched to Direct tv using a Sony HD200 and 300 Sat receivers. The Sat picture was much better. I remember thinking how much clearer peoples eyes were with the Sat feed(at least with the Sony receiver) and less noise. I later switched to Dish and was wowed again at the improved picture over Direct tv. Not sure if its the Dish receivers or their means of transmitting their signal. With the Mpeg4 Vip622, Dish has taken it up another notch! I am very satisfied with it. I was really worried that i was going to trade off the fantastic picture from the 942 receiver in the name of receiving more HD channels in mpeg4 format of the 622 ,but this receiver has exceeded my expectations. In defense of cable, my son has cable( Bright House) and the picture looks great on his 60" SXRD.They use fiber optics up to the header.

Can you watch a show on 1 622 that was recorded on another...like the ReplayTV's? I think you can but one is only SD. Also, where is VOOM mentioned? Is it on all HD packages?

I am getting so sick of my Comcast 6412's that I have been looking in to DISH. Not sure how much it will cost, or which HD stations they have.


Update on Dish Vip622 mpeg4 sat receiver( for those on the fence )

it's been more than 24 hrs since the 622 was installed. I am amazed at the lack of compression artifacts this unit is displaying. i have yet to see anything worth mentioning! Much improved over the 942 hd receiver i had in this respect. This has to be the mpeg 4 compression scheme at work.Whatever it is, i'm very impressed with this receiver/PVR. The extra Voom channels are smoking (Visually). BTW, HD recording capability has increased from 25 to 30hrs over the 942. Dish on Demand is also a new feature on this receiver over the 942 along with the Audio sync (HD/SD) feature.

Can you watch a show on 1 622 that was recorded on another...like the ReplayTV's?

I am getting so sick of my Comcast 6412's that I have been looking in to DISH. Not sure how much it will cost, or which HD stations they have.

Not sure if iunderstand as i'm not familiar with Replay.This receiver has 3 tuners. You can certainly record a show while watching another (dual mode) or record 2 shows while watching a recorded show (single mode). the unit also simultaniously outputs Hdmi/S video from tuner 1 or 2. this allows me to just hit the record button on my Panasonic Dvd recorder to record a show via S-video on DVD instantly without hitting any other switches or buttons.

. Also, where is VOOM mentioned? Is it on all HD packages?


I do believe you get voom with either of the the 3 HD pkgs. Voom channels are 9470 thru 9486. I don't think they list them as Voom online, but when you watch the channels you see the Voom logo. Voom signal is located at azimuth 61.5 . Dish can either install 1 dish (dish 1000) to receive all 3 satellite signals (110,119,61.5) or install 2 Dish 500 dishes to do the same. 1 for 110 and 119 Sats and 1 for 61.5.

UPDATE.......As of 3 hrs ago,i am officialy mpeg4 activated(Dish Network with new 622 HD DVR receiver) i now have 15 Voom channels,6 HD channels and 11 local HD channels for a grand total of 32. i do not have hbo or showtime HD. Picture looks at least as good as my 942 HD DVR receiver it replaced. Thie new receiver has an audio sync delay function that the 942 did not have. Nice! More to follow.



Yo HiFi59,

I still have my 942 ...... can you list the new channels that I would get with the 622 and I do understand that if I keep my 942 (I own it) I can run both at the same time and record MPEG2 on 942 and MPEG 4 on 622.

Yo HiFi59,

I still have my 942 ...... can you list the new channels that I would get with the 622 and I do understand that if I keep my 942 (I own it) I can run both at the same time and record MPEG2 on 942 and MPEG 4 on 622.


here are all the channels in HD. LocalHD mpeg4 channels comming soon

TNTHD 9420, DISCHD 9421,HDNET 9422, HDNMV 9423, ESPNHD 9424, ESPN2HD 9425 MPEG4, UNIVERSALHD 9427 MPEG4, HDTVDEMO 9443, HBOHD 9456, SHOHD 9460, HDEVI 9465, NBAHD 9466, HDPPV 9467, RAVE 9470, EQUATOR 9471, GALLERY 9472, TREASURE 9473 MPEG4, ANIMA 9474, WORLD 9475 MPEG4, RUSH 9476, WSPORTS 9475 MPEG4, ULTRA 9478, KUNGFU 9479, FILMF 9480, MONSTER 9481, HDNEWS 9482, GAMEPLAY 9485 MPEG4, FAMILY 9486 MPEG4

Looky what came in today's US mail...

Three Tuners? WOW. With the replayTV, they link via Cat5. I have 3 of them and no matter where the show is recorded, another ReplayTV can view it. I believe you can do the same with 2 of the Dish units, but the remote unit does not get HD...it is converted to SD.

They were running a special in my area for up to 4 rooms and free install, but can not find it online. Just starting to wonder if it is now time to DUMP Comcast?!! I may search for Dish Channel lineup. Anyway to know what is going on these channels? Do you get CBS east and west?



Not sure if iunderstand as i'm not familiar with Replay.This receiver has 3 tuners. You can certainly record a show while watching another (dual mode) or record 2 shows while watching a recorded show (single mode). the unit also simultaniously outputs Hdmi/S video from tuner 1 or 2. this allows me to just hit the record button on my Panasonic Dvd recorder to record a show via S-video on DVD instantly without hitting any other switches or buttons.

OT again... I actually got 60 minutes of 24 in HD from WPGH tv last night.

Chloe would be difficult to live with, but her personality sure is fun from a distance...

Looky what came in today's US mail...

My tickets arrived also but ...........how does one get what you got? Nice work!

My tickets arrived also but ...........how does one get what you got? Nice work!
1. Cheat by posting photos of someone else's seats from eBay; this is a HUGE timesaver... :D
2. My seats are very nearly as good; I stalked the online website and was ready to pounce the instant they went online...
3. Prayer.
4. Told them I was a Qualia Owner...

Everyone who got gang-raped by Bernie last year had first dibs; I was lucky to get these. Wonder if this year's race is the last USGP at Indy?

You know, 24 looked absolutely awful last night...can this dark scene granularity be aggravated by a properly calibrated set? I don't remember 24 looking so bad...umr?

You know, 24 looked absolutely awful last night...can this dark scene granularity be aggravated by a properly calibrated set? I don't remember 24 looking so bad...umr?
In watching "The Sopranos" last night (via Comcast) I noticed some of this effect. It is rare on my set, but it was present last night. How much was in the source is uncertain; it does seem to me that we are in a vicious cycle (unti FIOS arrives to save the day); the more HD content they add the more compression they have to use to get things to fit in the pipe. I almost think I'd rather watch pristine SD content than HD content that's full of artifacts -- hope the content providers wise up to this...

You know, 24 looked absolutely awful last night...can this dark scene granularity be aggravated by a properly calibrated set? I don't remember 24 looking so bad...umr?

24 looks pretty bad on my display too. Not sure what to say. It seems like they are stylizing the image in a way that is ugly.

OT again... I actually got 60 minutes of 24 in HD from WPGH tv last night.

Chloe would be difficult to live with, but her personality sure is fun from a distance...


Chloe was the only fun part of the episode. She needs to be the spokesperson for Taser. lol

hey umr, i had a chance to look at my z9 manual and from what i can gather, i have the option of applying all dsp to the analog inputs or to just pass it on through untouched. i also looked at the block diagram at the end of the manual and that would seem to support my conclusion...am i misreading/missing something?

Chloe was the only fun part of the episode. She needs to be the spokesperson for Taser. lol

i loved that scene and was just discussing it with someone in the office...it came out of nowhere but was hysterical!

hey umr, i had a chance to look at my z9 manual and from what i can gather, i have the option of applying all dsp to the analog inputs or to just pass it on through untouched. i also looked at the block diagram at the end of the manual and that would seem to support my conclusion...am i misreading/missing something?

That is true with the Z9, but you will be introducing an extra D/A conversion step and be subject to any analog output problems from the source.

Neo2005 and Bernster2001.. My Qualia replacement arrives tomorrow. (sooner than I expected) . I will let you know if our problems dissappear on the new unit.

OK, you guys wanna see the green blob problem (http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/col_lilacChaser/index.html)?? ... enjoy :D

I see it! Do I get a new Q too? It was not that bad, so I will agree to keep my Q and they can send me a BluRay!

OK, you guys wanna see the green blob problem (http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/col_lilacChaser/index.html)?? ... enjoy :D

Hifi 59

Did the Dish MPEG4 help with the artifacts in dark scenes on your about to be old 006? Good luck with the new one.

Hifi 59

Did the Dish MPEG4 help with the artifacts in dark scenes on your about to be old 006? Good luck with the new one.

yes it has! So does my new HDDVD. Not to the point of pre Q box being installed, but a noteable improvement.

I picked-up the HD DVD "Swordfish" yesterday. It reinforced my previous comments regarding The Last Samurai and Serenity. The audio is clearly much better than any other source (DVD, HD D* or HD OTA), but the video (shockingly) is not noticeably better than other HD programming :confused:

Watching "The Unit" last night on OTA CBS HD, I felt that picture was superior to the HD DVDs I've viewed so far. Perhaps it has something to do with perception, in that the DVDs are letter-boxed, I don't know. D-VHS also apparently produces a higher quality picture IMO. I read somewhere that because of upconverting DVD players (I previously had the Sony 975), which the Toshiba is, the difference between SD DVDs and HD DVDs may not be as huge.

Once again, my settings are correct (1080i), I just can't say WOW.

Replacement Qualia has arrived.

Neo2005 and Bernster2001

I've been watching my replacement for several hours now, throwing everything in my arsonal at it to trip it up. Here is what I've concluded.

1. Problems gone! no dithering,posterization,less false contouring! Any noise in dark scenes is much less than i have ever noticed on my previous set and is likely source related.
2.Blacks/contast are just great. Appears to have stronger contrast and blacker blacks than i ever saw on my last Q. I swear it now looks every bit as good in the blacks/contrast areas as my son's 60" SXRD. No "blues" are present in black/near black scenes.
3.The damn thing looks very calibrated straight out of the box!(pro,warm,etc)
4. Some faded green areas noticed with solid gray backround.Not noticeable with material as i was just watching Raging Bull in B/W on HD movie channel.
5. The moving company left me all the accessories. now i have 2 sets of unused speakers,remotes,etc.
6. Build date is Jan 2006.

I will post if i notice anything else positive or negative as time goes by. Very satisfied up to this point. My life is complete again...

I picked-up the HD DVD "Swordfish" yesterday. It reinforced my previous comments regarding The Last Samurai and Serenity. The audio is clearly much better than any other source (DVD, HD D* or HD OTA), but the video (shockingly) is not noticeably better than other HD programming :confused:

...

I just can't say WOW.


I seem to be having the exact opposite reaction than you regarding picture quality. I don't own, nor have I ever seen, D-VHS so I can't comment on that aspect.

Now other than not seeing artifacts on the HD-DVD and BD titles (this will be the case for BD VC-1/AVC encoded material but Sony may disappoint me with their use of MPEG2) , I don't imagine there will ever/can ever be a major difference between HD you get via some broadcast medium and HD on one of the HD optical disc formats, unless of course you are unfortunate enough to have a broadcast provider that provides you with a lousy HD feed or worse yet, HD-lite.

Let's not forget that what we are getting is the ability to have our own collection of HD material on optical discs untethered from our broadcast limitations.

Replacement Qualia has arrived... Problems gone! no dithering, posterization, less false contouring! Any noise in dark scenes is much less than i have ever noticed on my previous set and is likely source related... Blacks/contast are just great... The damn thing looks very calibrated straight out of the box!... The moving company left me all the accessories. now i have 2 sets of unused speakers,remotes,etc... Build date is Jan 2006.
That is GREAT news; congrats! Let's start a "build date lottery" to see who owns the Omega Qualia; sounds like hifi59 may have one of the last...

Congrats Hifi
You should have this puppy broken in by the time UMR does his So Fl tour. Now you have me wondering whether Dish MPEG4 is better than Comcast HD for pq.

I seem to be having the exact opposite reaction than you regarding picture quality. I don't own, nor have I ever seen, D-VHS so I can't comment on that aspect.

Now other than not seeing artifacts on the HD-DVD and BD titles (this will be the case for BD VC-1/AVC encoded material but Sony may disappoint me with their use of MPEG2) , I don't imagine there will ever/can ever be a major difference between HD you get via some broadcast medium and HD on one of the HD optical disc formats, unless of course you are unfortunate enough to have a broadcast provider that provides you with a lousy HD feed or worse yet, HD-lite.

Let's not forget that what we are getting is the ability to have our own collection of HD material on optical discs untethered from our broadcast limitations.

Good points. Perhaps I wasn't direct enough in my previous post -- I think some of the broadcast HD is better than HD DVD. That's why I am so lukewarm thus far. Believe me, I really want to love HD DVD. I envy you.

I was looking and although Dish has locals in Portland, OR, they are in SD only. They show as upgrading locals to HD in Portland, but will not say when.

Congrats Hifi
You should have this puppy broken in by the time UMR does his So Fl tour. Now you have me wondering whether Dish MPEG4 is better than Comcast HD for pq.

Good points. Perhaps I wasn't direct enough in my previous post -- I think some of the broadcast HD is better than HD DVD. That's why I am so lukewarm thus far. Believe me, I really want to love HD DVD. I envy you.

Well I know that "video" based material usually looks much better than film based material, the film tending to be softer. that is why sporting events usually look great...i don't know which tv shows are shot on video or film...

Replacement Qualia has arrived.

Neo2005 and Bernster2001

I've been watching my replacement for several hours now, throwing everything in my arsonal at it to trip it up. Here is what I've concluded.

1. Problems gone! no dithering,posterization,less false contouring! Any noise in dark scenes is much less than i have ever noticed on my previous set and is likely source related.
2.Blacks/contast are just great. Appears to have stronger contrast and blacker blacks than i ever saw on my last Q. I swear it now looks every bit as good in the blacks/contrast areas as my son's 60" SXRD. No "blues" are present in black/near black scenes.
3.The damn thing looks very calibrated straight out of the box!(pro,warm,etc)
4. Some faded green areas noticed with solid gray backround.Not noticeable with material as i was just watching Raging Bull in B/W on HD movie channel.
5. The moving company left me all the accessories. now i have 2 sets of unused speakers,remotes,etc.
6. Build date is Jan 2006.

I will post if i notice anything else positive or negative as time goes by. Very satisfied up to this point. My life is complete again...


Congrads ma-boy !!!! now what I want to know is why HD-DVD does not fill the screen .... yasay that it is letterboxed ..... that just sucks !!!!! :mad:

I picked-up the HD DVD "Swordfish" yesterday. It reinforced my previous comments regarding The Last Samurai and Serenity. The audio is clearly much better than any other source (DVD, HD D* or HD OTA), but the video (shockingly) is not noticeably better than other HD programming :confused:

Watching "The Unit" last night on OTA CBS HD, I felt that picture was superior to the HD DVDs I've viewed so far. Perhaps it has something to do with perception, in that the DVDs are letter-boxed, I don't know. D-VHS also apparently produces a higher quality picture IMO. I read somewhere that because of upconverting DVD players (I previously had the Sony 975), which the Toshiba is, the difference between SD DVDs and HD DVDs may not be as huge.

Once again, my settings are correct (1080i), I just can't say WOW.
Newer hardware such as Sony's HDCAM-SR, without 1440-line filtering and less compression than HD D5 tapes, and 4k digital-intermediate (DI) movie production techniques for color corrections(see for further explanation………
http://www.surrealroad.com/digital/index.php/archives/2005/hdcam-sr-4k-production/

would probably result in transfers with more details. But it seems likely most 1080 DVDs will use existing 1080/24p master tapes.

While greater fidelity seems likely from 1080 DVDs, from the higher bit rates and/or advanced codecs :rolleyes: , if producers start with resolution-limited HD-D5 master tapes, the PQ advance may be less than expected.

Refer to this post I made earlier about some potential gems in the future………………………

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7553000&highlight=FlyBoys#post7553000

.i don't know which tv shows are shot on video or film...
Live or recorded sports, late-night shows (ex. The Tonight Show), and some documentaries/travelogues are captured at 1080/60i (30i) or 720p.

I was looking and although Dish has locals in Portland, OR, they are in SD only. They show as upgrading locals to HD in Portland, but will not say when.
F.Y.I.
http://www.dishstore.net/

hifi, did you get a brand spanking new q or a refurb/b stock item?

Porn Industry May Be Decider in Blu-ray, HD-DVD Battle


http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,125618,tk,dn050306X,00.asp

Porn Industry May Be Decider in Blu-ray, HD-DVD Battle
Wait a minute; I thought Dubyah was "The Decider"... ;)

Ray, I had a feeling you would respond to Stew's post. ;)

Ray, I had a feeling you would respond to Stew's post. ;)
Great minds think alike... :D
Or, perhaps, not... ;)
Now, if we could only get Ben to not use the word
"spanking", we might have a G-rated thread... :rolleyes:

Well Ray, if you want a G-rated thread, I suggest you do NOT venture here…..
(where some tend to let it all hang out :D )

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7522961&highlight=anal#post7522961

Well Ray, if you want a G-rated thread, I suggest you do NOT venture here... (where some tend to let it all hang out :D ) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7522961&highlight=anal#post7522961
Dude -- P-M's in 'da "House"...

hifi, did you get a brand spanking new q or a refurb/b stock item?

Brand New. That was a concern of mine too. Sony assured me it would be brand new and it is.

PM I do not see if/when the Portland Locals will be available in HD?

F.Y.I.
http://www.dishstore.net/

Well after 24 hrs of viewing, i am now seeing a big green donut (oval) covering almost the entire screen with some purple splotches thrown in for good measure. I can see it even during normal viewing at times, not just on a gray screen or B/W movie.This is a shame,because everything else on this set is near perfect. I did note some green/purple in the corners of my last Qualia (with the replaced light engine). After maybe 30 days,it really seemed to fade quite a bit. I hope this does the same. 60-70% of this screen is either green or purple on a gray screen. Mainly noticeable on normal viewing on the right side of screen. Do I dare tell Sony after all I've been thru with them for the last 5 months.? Can UMR make any of this go away? Anyone else with this SXRD type problem?I am so bummed out right now.

Well after 24 hrs of viewing, i am now seeing a big green donut (oval) covering almost the entire screen with some purple splotches thrown in for good measure. I can see it even during normal viewing at times, not just on a gray screen or B/W movie.This is a shame,because everything else on this set is near perfect. I did note some green/purple in the corners of my last Qualia (with the replaced light engine). After maybe 30 days,it really seemed to fade quite a bit. I hope this does the same. 60-70% of this screen is either green or purple on a gray screen. Mainly noticeable on normal viewing on the right side of screen. Do I dare tell Sony after all I've been thru with them for the last 5 months.? Can UMR make any of this go away? Anyone else with this SXRD type problem?I am so bummed out right now.


ABSO-FRIGGIN-LUTELY!!! get on the phone immediately and tell sony it is totally unacceptable...given all the 'improvements' you've notrd, kind of makes you wonder if you got the innards of a regular sxrd!

i feel for you bud...

PM I do not see if/when the Portland Locals will be available in HD?
Dude …….
Do I LOOK like I’m from Portland ?

(Visualize a tanned SoCal guy in shorts and a T-shirt that doesn’t even own an umbrella :eek: )

Sorry I can’t help you out. I was just listing a site for a price if you were interested.

This is a new 622 thread, I believe………………..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=671643

Dude... Do I LOOK like I’m from Portland? (Visualize a tanned SoCal guy in shorts and a T-shirt that doesn’t even own an umbrella :eek: )
Got Shoes???
(speaking as a former denizen of 'da Big Island)
:D

OH, I thought you were going to tell me about the HD stuff. Actually I am not from Portland either. Born in Hartford and lived in the SF Bay area for a long time (20 years). I was even in the great quake.

OH, we don't use an umbrella much either. In fact we both say that we never saw it rain as hard as it did in the Bay Area.

P.S. Be nice to me, we need to fly in to Hartsfield again in a few weeks! :D

Dude …….
Do I LOOK like I’m from Portland ?

(Visualize a tanned SoCal guy in shorts and a T-shirt that doesn’t even own an umbrella :eek: )

Sorry I can’t help you out. I was just listing a site for a price if you were interested.

This is a new 622 thread, I believe………………..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=671643

I was even in the great quake.

. . . of 1906???

--Dwayne

. . . of 1906???

--Dwayne
ROFLMAO (yet again)... :D

Well after 24 hrs of viewing, i am now seeing a big green donut (oval) covering almost the entire screen with some purple splotches thrown in for good measure. .

Hifi
What a bummer. Sounds very unQualia like. More like SXRD. Hope Sony resolves quickly. Keep us posted. Maybe you should ask for a refund. See SXRD post below.

"My best friend had a simlar problem with his SXRD (green glob smack in the middle, very faint though). He too called Sony and was visited by a tech. After visiting his home quite a few times, Sony offered to buy back his TV at a reduced price based on usage. It's been awhile so I don't remember all the details, however Sony did send him a check. He was happy with the way Sony handled the situation even though he won't be buying anymore TV's from them anytime soon."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=667897

Hifi
What a bummer. Sounds very unQualia like. More like SXRD. Hope Sony resolves quickly. Keep us posted. Maybe you should ask for a refund.

It may come to that but i would rather have a properly operating Qualia. If i got a refund,what would i buy? There is no other game in town! After having the Qualia for the past year, i am spoiled by it's 70 inches and overal performance. The only other possibility would be the 70" JVC 1080P , but i would have to sit with it for a few hours in a dimmly lit showroom. I'm still hoping it fades away like it did with my last one.

hifi59,

A calibration may improve what you are seeing. It depends on how your set is performing.

The JVC sets are not totally color uniform either and have video processing that is far inferior to these displays. The screen material on these displays are not nearly as good as the Qualia either.

I would look at a DLP set if you want perfect color uniformity. The new Samsung 1080p wobulated sets can look excellent with a full calibration. They are the closest thing I have seen to a Sony Ruby in PQ in the RPTV format. However, without a full calibration they are poor. You will also probably need something to compensate for the lip sync problems with this display.

OH, I thought you were going to tell me about the HD stuff. Actually I am not from Portland either. Born in Hartford and lived in the SF Bay area for a long time (20 years). I was even in the great quake.

OH, we don't use an umbrella much either. In fact we both say that we never saw it rain as hard as it did in the Bay Area.

P.S. Be nice to me, we need to fly in to Hartsfield again in a few weeks! :D
Fly into Hartsfield ! :eek: ..... :eek: ................. :eek: !

Well I do love Bend, Oregon because of dem adjacent mountains. :)

I also hear it has perhaps the most proactive, consumer friendly cable co. in the whole U.S. of A.

Please disregard my last post…….I had taken physician prescribed Phenergan and Ambien prior to typing on my keyboard ! ;)

Closing thought……………
$100. on Brother Derek (and Dan Hendrick :) ) To Win in the Derby !

Toshiba has a 72 and Samsung a 71. Haven't read reviews on the Toshiba, but a little while ago, UMR had some nice things to say about a calibrated Samsung.

It may come to that but i would rather have a properly operating Qualia. If i got a refund,what would i buy? There is no other game in town! After having the Qualia for the past year, i am spoiled by it's 70 inches and overal performance. The only other possibility would be the 70" JVC 1080P , but i would have to sit with it for a few hours in a dimmly lit showroom. I'm still hoping it fades away like it did with my last one.

How about the Panny new 65" 1080p plasma which is coming out soon at around 10k. Panny plasmas have terrific pq.

hifi59,

A calibration may improve what you are seeing. It depends on how your set is performing.

The JVC sets are not totally color uniform either and have video processing that is far inferior to these displays. The screen material on these displays are not nearly as good as the Qualia either.

I would look at a DLP set if you want perfect color uniformity. The new Samsung 1080p wobulated sets can look excellent with a full calibration. They are the closest thing I have seen to a Sony Ruby in PQ in the RPTV format. However, without a full calibration they are poor. You will also probably need something to compensate for the lip sync problems with this display.
Isn’t it nice to have a resident calibrator on-call for difficult matters ?

I think we be lucky ducks here. :)

How about the Panny new 65" 1080p plasma which is coming out soon at around 10k. Panny plasmas have terrific pq.

As much as I like Panny Plasmas, I couldn't deal with it's "puny" 65" screen. :)

How about the Panny new 65" 1080p plasma which is coming out soon at around 10k. Panny plasmas have terrific pq.

I am curious about that display as well. The commercial Panny plasmas are excellent and are my favorite plasma by a long shot. The consumer models are very good, but have some red push that cannot be removed unless you purchase an external scaler.

My concern with these large plasma displays is power consumption and heat dissipation. The 65" Panasonic is specified currently at about 800 watts. Most plasma displays today struggle to maintain light output when the image is bright and fills the screen with about 500 watts. I would not be surprised if the 65 inch one will really struggle with this. This could result in a significantly reduced contrast ratio and even trouble supplying power to the display and the sound system unless you have carefully routed power to that part of your house. I know if my display required 800 watts I would be in trouble with everything else I have on that circuit.

Screen door effect may also be a problem depending on your visual acuity.

It's been asked recently, but not answered . . .

Anyone hear from divedude (last post 3/3/06) or kaduku (last post 4/1/06) :confused:

It's been asked recently, but not answered . . .

Anyone hear from divedude (last post 3/3/06) or kaduku (last post 4/1/06) :confused:
Unfortunately, that's a negatory for me.

Not via this thread, a P.M. or from a Pony Express rider. :(

not worried bout our warrior, I think he said he was riding around on his bike, but minidive is worrisime given his recent ordeal.

:D...I knew someone would say that!

. . . of 1906???

--Dwayne

No problem PM.
Bend is nice, but has grown so much. We still like Sunriver.

Anyway, I guess we will only be in Atlanta (Perimeter Center) for about 10 days, so it should not be too bad! :D

Fly into Hartsfield ! :eek: ..... :eek: ................. :eek: !

Well I do love Bend, Oregon because of dem adjacent mountains. :)

I also hear it has perhaps the most proactive, consumer friendly cable co. in the whole U.S. of A.

Please disregard my last post…….I had taken physician prescribed Phenergan and Ambien prior to typing on my keyboard ! ;)

Closing thought……………
$100. on Brother Derek (and Dan Hendrick :) ) To Win in the Derby !

I am curious about that display as well.
Well since Jeff’s in a display evaluation mood…..

Any preliminary thoughts on this…………….
http://www.tvauthority.com/Coming-Soon/Optoma-HDBV3100.asp?srccode=cii_14110944&cpncode=07-7550065-2

On a per pixel basis, it really doesn’t seem like a bad deal if you’ve got the room and the need for 100”.

Can it cut the mustard or is it way too early to tell ?

I may just seriously look into getting one of these puppies.

Any preliminary thoughts on this...
http://www.tvauthority.com/Coming-Soon/Optoma-HDBV3100.asp?srccode=cii_14110944&cpncode=07-7550065-2 On a per pixel basis, it really doesn’t seem like a bad deal if you’ve got the room and the need for 100”. I may just seriously look into getting one of these puppies.
I've been looking at that as well -- always thinking ahead -- and love the idea of something this size that's built-in. A little leery of the DLP part, though...

And for those others not interested in the built-in aspect, I think? that you can actually have somebody build an outside cabinet around it on the cheap, if you don't feel like blasting out a wall in the house ?

Anybody know for sure about the above Evil Plan ?

The 65" Panasonic is specified currently at about 800 watts.
So, how much would a Panny 103 incher pull ? :(

Well it started out as a nice “insider’s look” at an early Blu-ray player and it looks like yet another thread on this forum is starting to degenerate into a bit rate/codec battleground by the respective proponents :( …………….

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=674215&page=1&pp=30

And yet another closed down by a moderator :( ..............
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=674538

Well since Jeff’s in a display evaluation mood…..

Any preliminary thoughts on this…………….
http://www.tvauthority.com/Coming-Soon/Optoma-HDBV3100.asp?srccode=cii_14110944&cpncode=07-7550065-2

On a per pixel basis, it really doesn’t seem like a bad deal if you’ve got the room and the need for 100”.

Can it cut the mustard or is it way too early to tell ?

I may just seriously look into getting one of these puppies.

Interesting, I had not seen this specific product before. That kind of technology has been around for a while.

I like some of the Optoma front projectors from a PQ standpoint, but they have had some huge reliability problems recently. I am not sure I would trust them at this time without some track record. Some of their front projectors appear to have insufficient cooling that is causing lamps to melt and fail. It is so big people are having trouble getting lamps after they fail.

This is the best solution if you want a big screen and less sensitivity to ambient light. It can be a pretty expensive option though.

So, how much would a Panny 103 incher pull ? :(

I estimate it at about 2000 watts. :eek:

Well that's just fabulous. Even if I could get this 103 inch monster to pass WAF, she would never let me turn the sucker on without reminding me how much more it would contribute to our monthly electric bill.

I would be stuck with a 103" framed pixel painting hanging on the wall.

Even if I could get this 103 inch monster

Is that what you're calling it now - your "monster"? :eek:

Is that what you're calling it now - your "monster"? :eek:
Only when he gets in that “assertive mood”. ;)

Well that's just fabulous. Even if I could get this 103 inch monster to pass WAF, she would never let me turn the sucker on without reminding me how much more it would contribute to our monthly electric bill.

I would be stuck with a 103" framed pixel painting hanging on the wall.

I'd take it off your hands. :D

You know, I posted on the plasma forum that I was thinking about this monster and some guy said it would cost about 10x our Qualia 006’s. (i.e. 130k)

Is that correct ?

I was thinking about 30k for something like this.
Is that wishful thinking ?

You know, I posted on the plasma forum that I was thinking about this monster and some guy said it would cost about 10x our Qualia 006’s. (i.e. 130k)

Is that correct ?

I was thinking about 30k for something like this.
Is that wishful thinking ?

I have heard nothing about price, but I would guess you are closer than he. At 130K I doubt they would sell enough to be worth their trouble. If it is linear with surface area I would guess something closer to 15K.

Dissipating all of that heat is going to be a problem for the display as well as the owner. Think of it like running a hair dryer on high in the room while watching TV.

Jeff,
I know nothing, and I mean nuthin about lectric stuff but, do you think that plasma would use a 220v panel as we have one available in the room I'm thinking of and since it is currently unused, THAT may serve as a selling point for this display to zee wife.

Think of it like running a hair dryer on high in the room while watching TV.
That would actually not be a problem at all, as you will see someday when you get over here for the calibration when our schedules synch .............as the room is GIGUNDUS with a cathedral ceiling and thin walls. :eek:

Jeff,
I know nothing, and I mean nuthin about lectric stuff but, do you think that plasma would use a 220v panel as we have one available in the room I'm thinking of and since it is currently unused, THAT may serve as a selling point for this display to zee wife.

It would almost have to if it really pulled 2000 watts. Your typical 15 amp circuit is limited to an 80 percent load factor which limits out at 1440 watts. They could also reduce the light output or improve the technology to get it below 1440 watts.

220V circuits can typically handle 2880 watts or more making this a moot point if they chose that route.

That would actually not be a problem at all, as you will see someday when you get over here for the calibration when our schedules synch .............as the room is GIGUNDUS with a cathedral ceiling and thin walls. :eek:

The heat may not be a problem, but I bet the fan in this beast will not be very quite. It may be best to flush mount it and have a separate duct and cooling system to vent the heat and isolate the noise. These are all speculations of course until they hit the market if they ever do.

Note in this photo how they have encased it into the wall. I would guess it was to handle the noise and heat.

http://mediablog.mail2web.com/gadgetmaniac/media/get_file.media?filename=15457.jpg&folder=2308&account_id=2235&scale=320&ne=1

This monster plasma stuff reminds me a little bit of a trade show I was invited to many years ago. This is not to say Panasonic or someone else will never have a viable 103" plasma, but I will be very skeptical until I get a good look at it. This little story might shed a little light on why I am very skeptical of manufacturer’s claims.

A hopefully entertaining story...

At the time I was an engineer evaluating electronics to be on a bid list for a $150,000,000 job I was on. Needless to say many vendors where interested, but they had to meet my and a colleague's approval first. This one vendor from California had some very nice looking stuff on paper, but we had never used it. So we got on a plane and went to their next trade show. We quickly figured out that most people who purchased their stuff were clueless managers who liked their steak and whiskey along with some other fringe benefits in the hospitality suite.

We disappointed our salesman and declined those offers and went to see the equipment. In a few minutes we figured out it did not work as described. When we confronted a salesman in their booth who did not know we represented a potential huge order for them he relented and brought out the technical guy from behind the screen. This was sort of like the Wizard from Oz. His English was very poor, but from what we could gather he was simulating the whole thing from the backstage. A functional product was not actually available yet.

Years later they attempted to sell this stuff to us again. Fortunately, I was still the gate keeper. They setup a demo for our engineers to demonstrate their wondrous stuff because I would not let them bid. Their little demo included a demonstration of transferring wine from one clear tank to another. After just a few minutes they overflowed the tanks and had wine all over the floor. Being that this was going into a major US refinery this was not a big selling point. I guess they forgot the guy behind the screen this time. Needless to say they never tried again after making a fool out of themselves in front of everyone who mattered in their attempt to discredit me.

Because of many experiences like this in the past I only trust what I can verify independently.

This monster plasma stuff reminds me a little bit of a trade show I was invited to many years ago. This is not to say Panasonic or someone else will never have a viable 103" plasma, but I will be very skeptical until I get a good look at it. This little story might shed a little light on why I am very skeptical of manufacturer’s claims.

They probably took lessons from the auto industry, where they display clay and paper mache vehicles at the trade shows. Tough to be Bill Gates exhibiting new software that actually has to work.

Stew

Jeff

What advantage other than not having the projector suspended in the room would a 103" plasma have over say the Ruby ?

Jeff

What advantage other than not having the projector suspended in the room would a 103" plasma have over say the Ruby ?

The big advantage is it will work with ambient light.

who liked their steak and whiskey along with some other fringe benefits in the hospitality suite.

We disappointed our salesman and declined those offers and went to see the equipment............ the technical guy from behind the screen........ sort of like the Wizard from Oz.

I would have gone to the hospitality suite (for the steak and whiskey, of course :cool: ) and then …………….off to see the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of Oz.

The wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful


Wizard of Oz. :eek:

I think in this case, jeff, it just may happen. But check out the link I just found below. Given what they say the price of the LG 71” will cost, we may have to upwardly revise our initial estimates for this monster.(scroll down)

http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/panasonic_103_inch_plasma_goes_on_sale_this_christmas.php

On, the other hand, IF it comes with the Italian babe with the sunglasses in that funeral commercial on TV and pictured here at CES…………….well…………. :D

Looks like Cuban and some other celebrity (whom I thought was bankrupt) have pre-orders in…………….

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/14474339.htm

Because of many experiences like this in the past I only trust what I can verify independently.
That’s one of the reasons why you make a great calibrator. :)

I would have gone to the hospitality suite (for the steak and whiskey, of course :cool: ) and then... off to see the Wizard...
Pay NO attention to that man behind the curtain...
;)

For those out there that don’t understand brt’s posting above,

That be a quote from The Wizard of Oz ………by The Wizard of Oz

As be this…………………..

“A heart is not judged by how much you love; but by how much you are loved by others.” :)

Which proves that brt is truly a movie aficionado* and umr tells a very good story.

*While some guys are arguing techno specs on things that haven’t even been produced yet for consumer consumption, these guys appreciate their flicks. :)

I would have gone to the hospitality suite (for the steak and whiskey, of course :cool: ) and then …………….off to see the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of Oz.

The wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful


Wizard of Oz. :eek:

Getting "directions" first from Dorothy,
The Wicked Witch of the North and Auntie Em no doubt !!!!!! :p :D ;)

umr, did you have a chance to do a technical shakedown of the Tosh HD-DVD player like you did with the Qualia early on?

umr, did you have a chance to do a technical shakedown of the Tosh HD-DVD player like you did with the Qualia early on?

I see no reason to. It is not a player I can recommend based on what is known. I am waiting on the next one to hit the market. I can be very cautious since the number of titles available is so small.


The following is my current list of major problems I have read about from sources I believe...

- Wrong color space conversion (totally unacceptable)
- Crushed white levels
- Long boot times
- Audio bugs
- Movie playback glitches

I see no reason to. It is not a player I can recommend based on what is known...

- Wrong color space conversion (totally unacceptable)
- Crushed white levels
- Long boot times
- Audio bugs
- Movie playback glitches
Ouch! Makes us "wait and see" types feel better, though... :D

I see no reason to. It is not a player I can recommend based on what is known. I am waiting on the next one to hit the market. I can be very cautious since the number of titles available is so small.


The following is my current list of major problems I have read about from sources I believe...

- Wrong color space conversion (totally unacceptable)
- Crushed white levels
- Long boot times
- Audio bugs
- Movie playback glitches

The long boot time is caused by the unit having to boot Linux stored on a flash drive.

The latest:

"So, how much will the HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360 cost? "Stay tuned. We decided to save that good news for another day, but we're clearly out to make this an affordable option for Xbox 360 owners," the article on xbox.com says. However, it's no secret that Microsoft will have to stay competitive with Sony and that an Xbox 360 with HD DVD drive will have to cost exactly as much or less than a regular Playstation 3 with Blu-ray drive. $200 for the drive could be the suite-spot for the HD DVD "accessory"."

Toms Hardware guide http://www.tgdaily.com/products/twitchguru/xbox360_to_get_hddvd_drive/

Hmm it would be shocking if it were better performing than my Toshiba - but if so I hope they announce the price soon so I can return it :).

For those of us *hoping* that we may have been able to watch Blu-Ray DVDs on our Q006 in 1080p via firewire, it doesn't look like it's going to happen :(

Here's the latest posting on Sony's website regarding the Blu-Ray Disc Player:

Specifications • Inputs and Outputs

• HDMI™ Connection1 Output(s): 1 (Rear)

• Component Video (Y/Pb/Pr) Output(s): 1 (Rear)

• S-Video Output(s): 1 (Rear)

• Composite Audio Output(s): 1 (Rear)

• Optical Audio Output(s): 1 (Rear)

• Coaxial Audio Digital Output(s): 1 (Rear)

• Analog Audio Output(s): 5.1 ch; 1 (Rear)

• Analog Audio Output(s): 2 ch; 1 (Rear)

• IR Input(s): 1 (Rear)


• Dimensions (W x H x D)

• 16.9" x 4.1" x 13.9" (430mm x 105mm x 355mm)

I see no reason to. It is not a player I can recommend based on what is known. I am waiting on the next one to hit the market. I can be very cautious since the number of titles available is so small.


The following is my current list of major problems I have read about from sources I believe...

- Wrong color space conversion (totally unacceptable)
- Crushed white levels
- Long boot times
- Audio bugs
- Movie playback glitches


Oh, I thought you had one since I saw your name on the poll of owner's that were either keeping or returning and you voted as an owner returning...

I see no reason to. It is not a player I can recommend based on what is known. I am waiting on the next one to hit the market. I can be very cautious since the number of titles available is so small.


The following is my current list of major problems I have read about from sources I believe...

- Wrong color space conversion (totally unacceptable)
- Crushed white levels
- Long boot times
- Audio bugs
- Movie playback glitches


seems to be confirmed clipping of wtw/btb over hdmi but component is confirmed fine.

boots faster than the Q :D

not sure what audio "bugs" you are referring to, but I am quite pleased with the audio performance from this 1st gen player...the bd players are supposedly worse on the audio side :eek:

only movie playback glitches i can confirm are in re to sd-dvd menu navigation, but otherwise that is one thing that i find superb, hit play and it lights up the Q :)

now i'm trying to figure out whose bd player i will buy first, samsung, sony, pioneer? my hunch, based on past performance of sd players is that i'll pick up the pioneer if it is reasonably priced...maybe samsung will surprise with a good performer.

Getting "directions" first from Dorothy,
The Wicked Witch of the North and Auntie Em no doubt !!!!!! :p :D ;)
:p
Speaking of “getting directions” guess what’s coming up next week for Penton-Man ?

France Part Deux ! :)

Speaking of “getting directions” guess what’s coming up next week for Penton-Man? France Part Deux ! :)
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into "Le Bistro"...
Hey, P-M -- be sure and have a "Royale du Fromage" for me, OK?
:D

i've posted about this before.

http://moviebeam.imswebmktg.com/moviebeam/lp_pricepoint/add_newsl.php?

this is the future, not hd-dvd or bray. maybe not moviebeam, but something like it.

i couldn't find specs on the site about the resolution of their HD or SD movies.

only downside for me is that you only have 24 hours after you order to watch it. not a big deal, but wish you had longer. sometimes you get tired and you just want to stop the movie and finish watching it another day.

not a big selection yet.

Sony said its next-generation game console would be released in North America and Europe on Nov. 17, in time for the key holiday shopping period. They had previously announced it would be released in the fall, without giving a specific date.
The console will come in two versions, one with a 20-gigabyte hard drive for $499 and one with a 60-gigabyte drive, for $599.

The long boot time is caused by the unit having to boot Linux stored on a flash drive.
That's funny--the Qualia 006 also boots Linux and takes less than 5 seconds. :p
(Now that I'm thinking about it, I have half a mind to write Sony for the source code under the GPL.)

Is it the copy protection? Nope, the XBox is a full-blown Palladium implementation and it takes less than 3 seconds.

A TiVo from DirecTV is both Linux and secured software, and both are up and running in just about 10 seconds, and part of that is spinning up a hard drive. The rest of the boot process is actually the launch of the TiVo application (which has to read a lot of database info up front to get things rolling).

I'd say that poor software design is the real reason. But then again not everyone is a hotshot programmer like your Humble Historian. :cool:

--Dwayne

P.S. Or, to put it another way: Don't blame Linux. Dem's fightin' words! :D

For those of us *hoping* that we may have been able to watch Blu-Ray DVDs on our Q006 in 1080p via firewire, it doesn't look like it's going to happen :(

Well . . . Poop! :mad:

But this is just the first generation of players. Later ones might have i.Link. Right? RIGHT??? RIGHT?!? (Please say right. Pretty please?)

Otherwise, we're back to Plan A: getting an "R2" upgrade to the rear input panel and electronics.

--Dwayne

Poetic irony: my post #404 is in response to how i.Link is "Not Found" on the first Sony Blu-Ray player.

Well . . . Poop! :mad:

But this is just the first generation of players. Later ones might have i.Link. Right? RIGHT??? RIGHT?!? (Please say right. Pretty please?)

Otherwise, we're back to Plan A: getting an "R2" upgrade to the rear input panel and electronics.

--Dwayne

Poetic irony: my post #404 is in response to how i.Link is "Not Found" on the first Sony Blu-Ray player.

Hey
Humble Historian/Hotshot Programmer
Design a Firewire board to add to the Blu-Ray player for Qualia 006 owners and we will be ever so much more grateful. Several people have done that for STB's in the past. They found the Toshiba HD player has an unused USB connector internally that only needed a short umbilical lead to be usable.

just had an interesting experience.

i've always read about ********** being the current method of getting tv shows off the web. never thought much about it because it sounded too complicated and also i didn't have a reason. my tivo records everything i need.

that all changed yesterday. i went to watch prison break and 24 that i had recorded and the tivo was hung. i had to unplug it and when it came back up, i checked the history and it hadn't record either show. i was devastated. first time in many years that any of my tivos had simply hung. they've rebooted from time to time and one had a drive failure, but never simply hung.

at that moment i remembered ********** and began googling it.

within 30 minutes i had figured out what i needed, downloaded, installed, and figured out how to use it. a total of 3 applications and a set of plugins. within another 30 mins i had downloaded hd-quality versions of the 2 episodes.

amazing technology.

Sony said its next-generation game console would be released in North America and Europe on Nov. 17, in time for the key holiday shopping period. They had previously announced it would be released in the fall, without giving a specific date.
The console will come in two versions, one with a 20-gigabyte hard drive for $499 and one with a 60-gigabyte drive, for $599.

They also have a number of other features they leave out for 499 like HDMI...

just had an interesting experience.

i've always read about ********** being the current method of getting tv shows off the web. never thought much about it because it sounded too complicated and also i didn't have a reason. my tivo records everything i need.

that all changed yesterday. i went to watch prison break and 24 that i had recorded and the tivo was hung. i had to unplug it and when it came back up, i checked the history and it hadn't record either show. i was devastated. first time in many years that any of my tivos had simply hung. they've rebooted from time to time and one had a drive failure, but never simply hung.

at that moment i remembered ********** and began googling it.

within 30 minutes i had figured out what i needed, downloaded, installed, and figured out how to use it. a total of 3 applications and a set of plugins. within another 30 mins i had downloaded hd-quality versions of the 2 episodes.

amazing technology.


open confession? :p

files where deleted as soon as i watched them and my drive defragged :D

not that a forensic team can't pull traces from my drive.

files where deleted as soon as i watched them and my drive defragged :D

not that a forensic team can't pull traces from my drive.

Or this thread :D

I recently purchased the HD DVD Swordfish. I also own the SD DVD Swordfish.

I placed my camera on a tripod, left all the settings identical, then cued up 3 scenes from Swordfish on each DVD, taking pictures for comparison of HD DVD v. SD DVD (upconverted to 1080i via the Toshiba HD DVD Player).

You be the judge!

Which one is from the HD DVD and which is from the (upconverted) SD DVD?

The shots are getting more interesting, aren't they?! :D

So what do you say A or B? Which is HD and which is (upconverted) SD DVD?

Is that Your Final Answer?

Deal or No Deal?

That's funny--the Qualia 006 also boots Linux and takes less than 5 seconds. :p
(Now that I'm thinking about it, I have half a mind to write Sony for the source code under the GPL.)

Is it the copy protection? Nope, the XBox is a full-blown Palladium implementation and it takes less than 3 seconds.

A TiVo from DirecTV is both Linux and secured software, and both are up and running in just about 10 seconds, and part of that is spinning up a hard drive. The rest of the boot process is actually the launch of the TiVo application (which has to read a lot of database info up front to get things rolling).

I'd say that poor software design is the real reason. But then again not everyone is a hotshot programmer like your Humble Historian. :cool:

--Dwayne
P.S. Or, to put it another way: Don't blame Linux. Dem's fightin' words! :D

It appears that the Toshiba HD-DVD player is basically a PC that has to boot up like any other PC. That may account for the time to play difference over other devices that are specific designs (or whatever they're called in the CE industry). Does bring up other interesting possibilities such as adding its functionality to a HTPC, building a dual system box (Blu-Ray and HD-DVD).

Have you heard anything about Blu-Ray being available over in Japan for several years already and that they already have Blue-Ray recorders?? Wonder what issues would be involved in just importing one of those machines?? Wonder if their software has an English soundtrack.

Hey
Humble Historian/Hotshot Programmer
Design a Firewire board to add to the Blu-Ray player for Qualia 006 owners and we will be ever so much more grateful. Several people have done that for STB's in the past. They found the Toshiba HD player has an unused USB connector internally that only needed a short umbilical lead to be usable.
I said I'm a programmer, not a hardware guy. My hardware know-how basically extends as far a building PC's, electric trains (sorry, "model railroads"), maintaining my two arcade games, and simple home electricity.

But a question: what's the big deal with an internal USB port when there are two USB ports already on the front of the box? :confused:

--Dwayne

Unfortunately, to post the pictures to AVS, you are already down-rezzing both sets of pictures to something shy of DVD resolution, so there's no way for us to tell which has the higher resolution picture.

However, it is my opinion that "Swing A", "Gun A", and "Reading B" came from the same source, based on the sight difference in aspect ratio that is visible from the two sources. I trust that the camera was not moved at all during the photo shoot?

--Dwayne

I said I'm a programmer, not a hardware guy. My hardware know-how basically extends as far a building PC's, electric trains (sorry, "model railroads"), maintaining my two arcade games, and simple home electricity.

But a question: what's the big deal with an internal USB port when there are two USB ports already on the front of the box? :confused:

--Dwayne

The internal USB 2.0 port is direct access to the flash drive.

photos, particularly those downrezzed to fit on here (might be better to just crop out a portion of the original images (hopefully taken at higher res than 1920x1080) and post those cropped shots), make it very difficult to see the differences you would otherwise see in person...

did you take those shots while "paused"? as has been discovered, this player does a "field" pause as opposed to a "frame" pause and therefore taking shots while paused only gives you half the image.

this is why i suggested that people have to see it in person to fully appreciate it.

btw, i truly appreciate your scene selections :D

Have you heard anything about Blu-Ray being available over in Japan for several years already and that they already have Blue-Ray recorders?? Wonder what issues would be involved in just importing one of those machines?? Wonder if their software has an English soundtrack.

The Blu-Ray Player/Recorder that has been available in Japan for a few years is completely different from the upcoming format. It utilizes discs in a plastic casing, therefore would not be capable of playing the new format BD discs scheduled to be released next month. My understanding is the Blu-Ray Player/Recorder you are referring to is used to record satellite T.V. in Japan. I have seen that model for sale (auction) on eBay.

Unfortunately, to post the pictures to AVS, you are already down-rezzing both sets of pictures to something shy of DVD resolution, so there's no way for us to tell which has the higher resolution picture.

However, it is my opinion that "Swing A", "Gun A", and "Reading B" came from the same source, based on the sight difference in aspect ratio that is visible from the two sources. I trust that the camera was not moved at all during the photo shoot?

--Dwayne

Dear Humble Historian:

All of your observations are correct. The photos are both downrezzed (but I'm telling you, the difference between viewing the actual HD DVD and the upconverted SD DVD is so subtle, I would wager many out there would have difficulty selecting which is which!) Swing A, Gun A and Reading B are all from the HD DVD :) (For some reason there was a slight change is aspect ratio, that you picked up on). The camera was not moved during photographing.

Keep in mind both photos were downrezzed exactly the same amount. While I concede that makes it more difficult to distinguish quality differences, I believe if a similar comparison was done between a TV show (CSI?) broadcast in SD and HD, the difference would be much more more pronounced (even in downrezzed photos). Of course, I realize we are now comparing 480i to 1080i (although both sources are being upconverted to 1080p via the Q006), as compared to 480p to 1080i (or 720p) being upconverted to 1080p via the Q.

Bottom line, I still remain unimpressed by the difference between HD DVD and upconverted SD DVD on the Q006. Has anyone else out there done a similar comparison between movies in SD and HD?

photos, particularly those downrezzed to fit on here (might be better to just crop out a portion of the original images (hopefully taken at higher res than 1920x1080) and post those cropped shots), make it very difficult to see the differences you would otherwise see in person...

did you take those shots while "paused"? as has been discovered, this player does a "field" pause as opposed to a "frame" pause and therefore taking shots while paused only gives you half the image.

this is why i suggested that people have to see it in person to fully appreciate it.

btw, i truly appreciate your scene selections :D

Yes, I took the photos while the DVD was paused. I was not aware of the field pause v. frame pause *feature*. I guess that applies to SD DVD, as well as HD DVD. The freeze frame of the *reading* shot still looks pretty good when taken a few seconds later, even at half image :D

Which one is from the HD DVD and which is from the (upconverted) SD DVD?
It is definitely HARD to differentiate.

P.S.
I am happy though that jb appreciates the finer things in life. :D

I posted awhile back about my problems with artifacts in dark scenes. I had a tech replace the lamp and had a tremendous improvement. Its like I have a new 006. I only had 996 hours on the lamp and have had this problem for the last 200 hours. I think I will replace the lamp once a year to keep my 006 fresh.

The instructions that come with the lamp as to turning screws counterclockwise only appy if the set is upside down. LOL!! I managed to mess up the screws in my vain effort to remove them. Sony is replacing the screws.

JB - I saw no difference in the photos. I have to believe however that with the right material Bluray/HDDVD will be superior to upscaled DVDs. I have the superbit version of Fifth Element and while it looks good upscaled , the HD broadcasts looked better.

Its like I have a new 006. I only had 996 hours on the lamp and have had this problem for the last 200 hours. I think I will replace the lamp once a year to keep my 006 fresh.

The instructions that come with the lamp as to turning screws counterclockwise only appy if the set is upside down. LOL!! I managed to mess up the screws in my vain effort to remove them. Sony is replacing the screws.


Good to know that I should turn the screws CLOCKWISE... That kinda thing would drive me nuts if I found myself stripping screws. Your 996 hours is definitely a bit troubling too artifacts after only 800 hours sure seems fast (ok 40 hours a week for 20 weeks is a bit of time and a lot of watching but not out of the question as a number of Q owners will tell you). I am glad you got it fixed but I will be definitely watching my Q closely and I might have to actually follow jb's guide to getting lamp hours one of these days.

there's a "how many qualians does it take to change a lamp" joke in there somewhere! :)

well at least i'm not alone (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7636726#post7636726), i was starting to wonder whether someone spiked my coffee with kool-aid! :eek:

well at least i'm not alone (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7636726#post7636726), i was starting to wonder whether someone soiked my coffee with kool-aid! :eek:
Totally appropriate, since everybody on avsforum knows that EACH of us Elitist Qualians (redundant?) has decided to "drink the Kool-Aid®"... ;)

Fortunately, when the big Kool-Aid guy burst in through my window saying,

"Oh Yeah!!!"

. . . I had a big enough piece of cardboard on hand to cover up the hole until I got it fixed. :D

--Dwayne

Totally appropriate, since everybody on avsforum knows that EACH of us Elitist Qualians (redundant?) has decided to "drink the Kool-Aid®"... ;)
Here’s a nice little fluff piece on the HDA1.
You folks can peruse while sipping some of that artificially-flavored soft drink concentrate. :D

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/11/technology/11pogue.html?_r=1&8cir&emc=cir&oref=slogin

I estimate it at about 2000 watts. :eek:Sounds like a dedicated 220v line would be in order. A constant 16.6 amp draw on a 120v line (assuming the line is stable) is a bit much.

To All (especially BenDover),

I went to Best Buy last night to purchase the HD DVD "Assault On Precinct 13." (It's amazing what one purchases when there is a dearth of titles; reminds me of the first DVD and CD titles I purchased when the formats were new in the 90's and 80's, respectively, but I digress).

Best Buy had a demo HD DVD playing clips on a Panasonic plasma. The "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" clip was stunning! The bright red suits of the Oompa Loompas (?) contrasted against the dark chocolate...now that was HD TV :)

I know my Q006 is a better display than that plasma :D So now I'm thinking maybe It's time to change the bulb (never been done, just checked the hours, I'm at 1260). However, the picture still has the WOW factor when viewing network HD programming (i.e., CSI).

I confirmed the Toshiba is outputting 1080i (over HDMI) and all the rest of the settings are correct. The way my room is configured, I sit almost 18 feet away from the screen. I know that's a ways, so I'm going to try and move the Q006 closer, which means farther away from the back wall, to see if that makes a difference. It won't be pretty, but I should be able to shave off at least 4 feet -- still a distance though.

My experience is, in general, the HD-DVD titles have reduced contrast. One that does have high contrast, ala csi miami, is "Jarhead". Check that one out before you go messing with your system. Also, component has higher contrast for me.

I watched Jarhead this morning...I got a sun tan from the first half of the movie!

It wasn't a bad movie...not sure why so many people ragged on it unless they were expecting an action flic.

To All (especially BenDover),

I went to Best Buy last night to purchase the HD DVD "Assault On Precinct 13." (It's amazing what one purchases when there is a dearth of titles; reminds me of the first DVD and CD titles I purchased when the formats were new in the 90's and 80's, respectively, but I digress).

Best Buy had a demo HD DVD playing clips on a Panasonic plasma. The "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" clip was stunning! The bright red suits of the Oompa Loompas (?) contrasted against the dark chocolate...now that was HD TV :)

I know my Q006 is a better display than that plasma :D So now I'm thinking maybe It's time to change the bulb (never been done, just checked the hours, I'm at 1260). However, the picture still has the WOW factor when viewing network HD programming (i.e., CSI).

I confirmed the Toshiba is outputting 1080i (over HDMI) and all the rest of the settings are correct. The way my room is configured, I sit almost 18 feet away from the screen. I know that's a ways, so I'm going to try and move the Q006 closer, which means farther away from the back wall, to see if that makes a difference. It won't be pretty, but I should be able to shave off at least 4 feet -- still a distance though.

holy crap, 18ft??? sounds like you need the ruby and a 100in. screen :)

holy crap, 18ft??? sounds like you need the ruby and a 100in. screen :)

Lol I have my Q about 2-3 feet from my feet (when I have the recliner legs out). I can't imagine going back much further the picture is too darn nice heh if I could wrap it around me I would. At least in my opinion viewing of 6-8 feet is definitely an option and looks quite nice.

The titles on HD DVD haven't been amazing yet but I have hopes. I am afraid that those of us who got 1st gens are going to be a bit chagrined 6 mos down the road as much nicer ones are available but heh thats what ebay is for and I wanted to enjoy it NOW and maybe it will last until the format war is over. I haven't seen anything lately on the dual format players I hope they pan out.

Lol I have my Q about 2-3 feet from my feet (when I have the recliner legs out). I can't imagine going back much further the picture is too darn nice heh if I could wrap it around me I would. At least in my opinion viewing of 6-8 feet is definitely an option and looks quite nice.

The titles on HD DVD haven't been amazing yet but I have hopes. I am afraid that those of us who got 1st gens are going to be a bit chagrined 6 mos down the road as much nicer ones are available but heh thats what ebay is for and I wanted to enjoy it NOW and maybe it will last until the format war is over. I haven't seen anything lately on the dual format players I hope they pan out.

For me, 6-8ft is too close, but then again lately I've been having trouble reading at close distances so in addition to being very nearsighted, seems I will need reading glasses soon :)

but i digress since I don't think that having difficulty reading has anything to do with the 6-8ft being too close for me...i just get overwhelmed at such a large screen so close up :) my sweet spot seems to be 9-11ft.

Here's a nice HDMI switcher I just found:
PARASOUND: link (http://www.parasound.com/zcustom/Zhddetails.php)

List is $600.

Quick question for Sony 975 owners. I still like mine. I was wondering if SACD's would output in 5.1 over Opt/Coax? My Meridian does not have 5.1 analog inputs!!

Here's a nice HDMI switcher I just found:
PARASOUND: link (http://www.parasound.com/zcustom/Zhddetails.php)

Yesterday I had the distinct pleasure of hosting UMR to do a video and audio calibration of my system. Jeff is absolutely great to work with (Mrs. Zechman even served lunch!), and since he didn't have a second appointment for yesterday, I had the additional opportunity to just sit and chat for a couple of hours when he was finished.

Here's the verdict:

We all know the Qualia 006 is a fantastic display, but it seems that mine in particular is especially good. With the settings I had been using, there was a pretty strong green push that Jeff was able to even out, and the end result was grayscale tracking that he said was the best he'd seen on any 006 he's worked on. "Don't ever get rid of this set", he told me.
Jeff gave my Sony STR-DA5000ES and Infinity Beta speakers an enthusiastic thumbs up. He'd never worked with the Infinitys before and was surprised at how well they kept an even tonal quality, both across the frequency spectrum and between the mains and the surrounds. He said my system was already pretty good before he started, which is rare. Now it is better and I can definitely hear the difference.
I also got to see the software he had developed to do audio testing and thought it was very slick. He expects to make a commercial product out of it in the next year or so.
My lowly XBox proved to be a better-than-I-expected DVD player. While there was no service menu or anything like that to get into, we did confirm that I was seeing the grayscale properly without any black or white crush.
Direct Mode is your friend. Direct Mode is 10-bit processing instead of the default 8-bit processing, is faster, and smoother. It also does the 3:2 pulldown properly, including at 1080i.
The Qualia 006 definitely does inverse telecine processing correctly at 1080i. Jeff was able to definitively demonstrate that with his DVHS test tape. So we really have nothing to worry about for not having 1080p input capability.


Of course the question on everybody's lips after a calibration is "Can you see a difference?" My answer, quite honestly, is mostly no. But before you get the wrong idea, let me explain: I'm not an expert. I haven't been looking at HDTV's for long and I freely admit that I don't know what to look for. I can also admit that I am as susceptible as anyone else to seeing what I "want" to see. I'm scientist enough to know better than to say something like "Oh yeah, night-and-day difference."
But I also saw the measurements before and after, and I saw the test patterns and asked a lot of questions (Jeff will certainly back me up on that!). Those measurements confirm that Jeff's work is science and not just psychology. And on the test patterns, I saw what I was suppose to see. That alone would be good enough for me.
But in addition to that, there is one definite video improvement I can see now. In dark areas, the picture used to get "noisy" and broken up. Jeff explained that this was due to the inaccurate grayscale tracking at the low end. After the calibration, I looked a number of things with dark areas and I don't see that noise any more (even with my amateur eyes).
The torture test for this turned out to be a scene from Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban (from HBO HD) where Harry is walking through a dark hallway with only his wand as a light source. That "ball of light" was very smooth, no banding, and the rest of the dark scene didn't break up into noise like it used to. This was the one area where I thought the Qualia was inherently unable to perform (Y'know, the whole "Black Levels" and "not as good as CRT" thing), but now it's just beautiful. Putting and end to that flaw once and for all alone was worth Jeff's entire fee.

I you haven't hired him to calibrate your 006, do it now. There are improvements to be seen, and besides, your set probably isn't as good as mine in the first place. :p

Thanks, Jeff.

--Dwayne

...


Jeff gave my Sony STR-DA5000ES and Infinity Beta speakers an enthusiastic thumbs up. He'd never worked with the Infinitys before and was surprised at how well they kept an even tonal quality, both across the frequency spectrum and between the mains and the surrounds. He said my system was already pretty good before he started, which is rare. Now it is better and I can definitely hear the difference.

...



I guess he forgot about my Infinity Beta speaker setup ...

...snip...

With the settings I had been using, there was a pretty strong green push that Jeff was able to even out, and the end result was grayscale tracking that he said was the best he'd seen on any 006 he's worked on. ...snip...

Zechman,
Was the pre calibration green shift in the grayscale or the color decoder??

Was it corrected in the service menu or the user menu?

Hi. I've been away from this thread for quite a while so I do not know whether this has been discussed before.

I am considering taking my demo 006 home because it is no longer selling in my store. I need a new RPTV for my great room and the 006 is in many ways superior to most of the latest Sony stuff out there. However, the 004 will not accept 1080p in. It is limited in the HD area to 720p or 1080i in. The coming new blue ray stuff will be mastered in 1080p and obviously that is the way it should be inputted to a 1080p display. Interlacing a 1080p signal to 1080i and letting the set deinterlace it to 1080p is pathetic, totally unacceptable. Without going into the issues of 1080p 60 for video and 1080p 24sf for film, does anyone have any info re mods by Sony or aftermaket to allow 1080p directly in? The coming new sets will allow this and the technology clearly exists. Its just a question of a retrofit.

Hi. I've been away from this thread for quite a while so I do not know whether this has been discussed before.

I am considering taking my demo 004 home because it is no longer selling in my store. I need a new RPTV for my great room and the 004 is in many ways superior to most of the latest Sony stuff out there. However, the 004 will not accept 1080p in. It is limited in the HD area to 720p or 1080i in. The coming new blue ray stuff will be mastered in 1080p and obviously that is the way it should be inputted to a 1080p display. Interlacing a 1080p signal to 1080i and letting the set deinterlace it to 1080p is pathetic, totally unacceptable. Without going into the issues of 1080p 60 for video and 1080p 24sf for film, does anyone have any info re mods by Sony or aftermaket to allow 1080p directly in? The coming new sets will allow this and the technology clearly exists. Its just a question of a retrofit.


You'd probably receive a more accurate response in a Q004 thread, but I'll give it a shot. First, it's my understanding there is a retrofit available for the Q004 that makes the Q004 capable of receiving 1080p input. Secondly, experts (Owen for one) have opined that there will be no perceptible viewing difference between 1080i and 1080p input, interlaced and deinterlaced by the Q.

JB. Duh on me. I meant 006 not 004. I've gone back and edited my post. Sorry. my bad.

OT: umr, could you enlighten me on BTB/WTW and its advantages/disadvantages (practical) as it relates to a player and/or display being able to, and not being able to, pass this information?

every time i think i understand the issue/debate, i read something else that confounds the issue again for me...i trust your technical opinion...TIA

I called my guy at Sony and he knew of nothing at this time. Internet search came up with nothing. At this time SOL.

OT: umr, could you enlighten me on BTB/WTW and its advantages/disadvantages (practical) as it relates to a player and/or display being able to, and not being able to, pass this information?

every time i think i understand the issue/debate, i read something else that confounds the issue again for me...i trust your technical opinion...TIA

My take is it will come down to how a given display handles 1080i and how well the player converts 1080p to 1080i. The Q 006 does a great job detecting 1080p/24 material that was converted to 1080i and converting it back to 1080p/24. This is basically the same issue as 480i/p being fed to a display. It all depends on the display and the source as to how significant this is.

Someone interested in computer games may be searching for something beyond 1080p/24 which is a different problem.

Jeff visited my Qualia today........

I'm a very happy camper. I have had TV's ISF'd in the past and nothing compaired to what he did today. Not only does the video look great, but the audio is much better.

Well worth the time and money.

Without a doubt, if he is in your area let him do his magic.

Thanks Jeff!

4 houses in my neighborhood will have happier tv's after Thursday & Friday.

Can't wait!

Zechman,
Was the pre calibration green shift in the grayscale or the color decoder??

Was it corrected in the service menu or the user menu?
It was in the grayscale (that is, all my grays were too green, and the effect was pretty uniform across brightness levels) and it was corrected in the service menu.

I suspect that if you know what you're doing (and I don't, BTW) something like that could be attacked in the advanced video user menus, but I can't say with certainty.

--Dwayne