Hello Everyone,

Could I get some help on updating the firmware I just recieved mine from Vanns and it has the 28 firmware i have downloaded the 36 and I am able to burn it to disk, I check it to see if the file is on there and it is. I then put it in the dvd player and it says play and that is it... nothing. I am using cd creator 5.0 with sony cd-r 700mb ones. Could someone help.

Thanks

Kevin

Kevin,

You need to connect the player up to your display. You will then get some on-screen prompts when you insert the CD.

Dick G

Thanks for the help I thought I was going to loose my mind.....Any suggestions on my s97 DVD settings? I am hooked up to a Hitachi 51f510.

Kevin

Originally posted by jeffgun
Is the SB version on 2 discs or one?

Deux, of course!

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow

I don't have those titles but do have the Superbit of "Lawrence of Arabia". It's a refrence disc to me.
Paul
On that note:
Paul,
I’m trying to finagle myself into the position of a “beta-tester” for one of the Sony Blu-ray units (which is a natural mate with my Qualia) and IF all goes well, I’ll ask them to send me the 1080i version of *Lawrence* for “research”.

If all goes well, YOU will be the first to know.
:D

Penton-Man,

Whoa!!!! That would be major coup. How hard would it be for Sony to press up a few Blu-ray "Lawrence...."? I wouldn't be surprised if the discs already exist.

Paul

Originally posted by Penton-Man
Deux, of course!
Guess that was kind of a dumb question :)
Any other reference discs that anyone would recommend?

Other Reference discs:

1. Singin' in the Rain (Warner 2-disc edition -- see what Technicolor is all about)
2. Ben-Hur (Warner -- incredible use of shadow and light)

Paul

Originally posted by jeffgun
Guess that was kind of a dumb question :)
Any other reference discs that anyone would recommend?

Reference DVD thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=372989)

Nice. Thanks Paul and Starc.

I just ordered the S97 from B&H Photo. I was told they have plenty in stock and their new published price is lower than yesterday.

Mike

Secrets says that this player suffers from "sever image cropping... 17 pixels on the left" when run using Component. My question is, is this alot? I mean, am I missing significant parts of the movie? I'm new to all of this. Basically I'm looking for a good Component...

I wonder if those with the new firmware can see if that cropping is fixed.

Originally posted by Bruno1453
I wonder if those with the new firmware can see if that cropping is fixed.

Though specific amounts of overscan appears to somewhat display dependant the firmware upgrade has not changed the cropping on my system.

Using the component 480P output directly into an X1 amounts to approx 3% all the way around and if I understand this properly in 16:9 AR would equate to 24 from each side and approx 14 on top and bottom. This imo is very significant cropping which appears to be a condition of the Faroudja chip. When running 480i component into an Iscan cropping is reduced remarkably and varies from 3 to 7 pixels.

Thanks for the update!

Yes thanks!

I'm new to all of this and have no idea what an "X1" or "Iscan" is? I would be plugging this player into a Sony RP LCD, 42WE655, via Component? How much would I be missing?

Thanks again!

Any news on a new firmware to completely fix the macro-blocking issue? With the recent updates the S97 is looking like the best up-converting player in its price range.

How about what an "X1" or "Iscan" is?

Originally posted by egore
Any news on a new firmware to completely fix the macro-blocking issue? With the recent updates the S97 is looking like the best up-converting player in its price range.
egore,

If you look on the first page of this thread there is a summary of the improvements the update provides (courtesy of LiteUp!). There was also another thread started regarding post upgrade observations: (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=508723) although I think I may be the only person to post on it to date.

-Jeff

egore. If you read the firmware thread you will see lots of talk about v.540...a false alarm it seems. It was released prematurely in Japan with mixed results. I think the next revision will be some time in coming because the challenges to completlely eliminating macroblocking and the dreaded pink tint problem are very formidable. What is amazing is that the Panasonic engineers working with Faroudja got this close. I agree it is now the best performing upconverting player which was reinforced when I compared it next to the denon 2910 which is twice the money and not as good PQ to my eyes. I can't comment on the denon 3910 which is packed with alot more goodies. But the othe sony, samsung,lg products don't come close. Liteon has an excellent summary of all the other attributes it addressed. Personally, I doubt macroblocking can be licked with the FL2310 but they have come awfully close. ;)

It's nice to know that you can upgrade the software and fix any issues. One thing I learned from being a P.C. gamer and messing around with video card drivers is that software is just if not more important than the hardware.

Is there a consensus on what video/picture settings to use with the new firmware?

Like:

720p vs 1080i ?

Normal vs Cinema 1 vs Cinema 2 vs Animation vs Dynamic vs User ?

If User, what custom settings are you using?

Many use 720p. I use 1080i because my display (Panasonic) won't accept 720p. Some people prefer 1080i because the picture may appear to be a bit sharper/more detailed others prefer 720p because of possible fewer artifacts (but that's a whole other non-ending debate commonly found on the forums).

I always use the "User" settings:

Mine:
Brightness +1 (and then adjust for proper black level via Digital Video Essentials calibration DVD)
Contrast -1
Sharpness -1

To me the other settings result in crushed black, crushed white, too bright, etc.

Anyone else's settings may not apply to another's particular set up -- strictly hit or miss.

Do you have Digital Video Essentials? If not, one of the best things to do is acquire DVE, learn how to use it, and then calibrate one's own system -- it take a lot of the guesswork out of the calibration and the nagging question "are the settings really right?"

Paul

Thanks Paul,

I will try those settings and order the Digital Video Essentials DVD.
I am really happy with this player and want to get the best picture possible out of it. I have mine hooked up to a Samsung HLP6163W DLP monitor.

Jeff

You're welcome!

Let us know how the DVE adjustments work out!

Paul

Please help.

Successfully burned the 536 firmware on both a CD R and CDRW proceeded to insert in player, then kindly received an error " This type of disc cannot be played please insert a different disc" Mixing a drink.... Any ideas?

Yaz

Burned a 3rd copy and got it!

Yaz

Paul,

I just spent a week with my 2nd s97 after returning the 1st due to unit shutting off occasionally when closing the tray. I did upgrade the firmware before returning it and was not 100 % pleased over the original performance.

My new s97, mfg'd same month as the 1st, with the old firmware as well performed somewhat differently than the 1st one with either firmware. I know I will be in the minority but I prefer v528 with its sharper picture, better depth and detail and better color. I cant explain this but my new s97 has almost un-noticeable pink issue and the MB issue looks to be half of what my 1st unit suffered.

I'll keep burning firmware to have on file and observe what comes down the pike but I am TOTALLY satisfied with the s97, with its original firmware, right out of the box. I just tweak it for my monitor and its the best picture I've seen anywhere. (not blessed w/rp82 awarness). This is an awsome player and will easily keep me happy until the hd/dvd war irons out. I know I will upgrade to a dlp or dila w/hdmi, from my Tosh rp57hx81, long before that happens and my Panny love will be born again with that connection. Thanks again to you guys for touting the Panny's. (still have a rp62 w/sage as a backup)

Bladerunner

Oh by the way...."So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people - greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are." is that not the truth?

Hi to all of you. I would like to inform that I buy this DVD from bhphotovideo.com
on 2/12/05 and is a Jan 05 build with firmware 85E536.

That is good to hear.......I ordered from B&H and should have mine in a couple of days.

Bladerunner,

Great report, and you're welcome.

Paul

"How can I fight a bloody war without bloody artillery!"

You know it would be great for testing if someone can get their hands on v. 528 firmware.

Totally concurr with you. I have a'stock' s97 and am 100% satisfied, have never noticed ANY 'pink' or MB...ever. Also running 528 firmware.

I am running it at 1080i via hdmi.


Originally posted by Bladerunner1959
Paul,

I just spent a week with my 2nd s97 after returning the 1st due to unit shutting off occasionally when closing the tray. I did upgrade the firmware before returning it and was not 100 % pleased over the original performance.

My new s97, mfg'd same month as the 1st, with the old firmware as well performed somewhat differently than the 1st one with either firmware. I know I will be in the minority but I prefer v528 with its sharper picture, better depth and detail and better color. I cant explain this but my new s97 has almost un-noticeable pink issue and the MB issue looks to be half of what my 1st unit suffered.

I'll keep burning firmware to have on file and observe what comes down the pike but I am TOTALLY satisfied with the s97, with its original firmware, right out of the box. I just tweak it for my monitor and its the best picture I've seen anywhere. (not blessed w/rp82 awarness). This is an awsome player and will easily keep me happy until the hd/dvd war irons out. I know I will upgrade to a dlp or dila w/hdmi, from my Tosh rp57hx81, long before that happens and my Panny love will be born again with that connection. Thanks again to you guys for touting the Panny's. (still have a rp62 w/sage as a backup)

Bladerunner

Oh by the way...."So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people - greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are." is that not the truth?

Paul, D96 & crew,

To be more specific for others, I had the 2 s97's side by side for 3 days. (both 9-04 mfg dates) I with v528 & 1 with v536. On my Tosh 57hx81 with Monster3 component cables

-v528's picture has more vivid punch and brightness
-v528 on the new unit has NO pink and the mb is reduced to quite tolerable levels
-v536 may have slightly better Black level(not so sure)
-white levels equal
-v528 Easily showed deeper detail, gradation and various levels of fleshtones using 5th Element sb, L of Arabia, Gladiator and Matrix revolution
-v528 strikingly more solid colors and it's edges of colors
-v528 background detail & focus is slightly better
-v536 slight edge in speed of menus and layer change

On a big screen, to me, it is all about a sharp, vivid and detailed picture. I'll stay put w v528 for now but we can see that it is THE unit to have right now and frankly, it is splitting hairs and that is a happy probllem. The s97 with any firmware is still the one, even over the Sony 975 which I had for a 3 week drive and liked it alot.

I am still confused as to why 2 units, with the same mfg dates and firmware, had different levels of severity with macro-blocking on the same monitor, with in 2 weeks. After double checking, my new s97 has NO pink issue whatsoever. (odd) I used "Master& Commander", Matrix and Raging Bull to seek out the silly fuscia tint that was obvious when viewing the movie with the 1st s97.

Bladerunner

" The best of them won't come for money; they'll come for me. "

Thats what my wife said

Now we need someone to host a v528 downgrade link so we can all re-burn the old version - lol.... Nice side by side comparison.

I'll repost my MB pics again.

Here (http://students.washington.edu/mattfu/Macroblock.zip) (based on firmware version 528)

These pics were taking in progressive and interlaced mode with the S97 via component. Compare the MB with NMB with the similar numbering. You'll notice what looks like block and redness which is the case of MB and notice exagerration in some areas as a result.

Just got my unit from B&H: December 2004 build with the 536 firmware.

I too received my Panasonic S97 from B&H Photo today. The build date is December 2004 and the firmware is 536.

Mike

I wonder what you would see comparing 528/536 on dvi ?
To my eyes 536 looks better' but I can't a/b .
I love the PQ on the S97

I picked up my S97 locally this evening. I paid the same price as B&H is selling theirs for, but I had to pay tax - which still has to be less than shipping.

If anyone in the Wash, DC area is looking for the Panasonic S97, check out Graffiti Audio on Old Georgetown Rd. in Bethesda. They had about 6 more on the shelf.

Mine is still out in the car, so I can't get to the details on build dates, etc. just quite yet.

I think v536 is much better. v528 may falsely look better at first...because of the artificial detail that is added due to the edge enhancement it adds. You can see this on the resolution test patterns in DVE. v536 more accurately shows what is on the disc. If for some strange reason you like this edge enhancement....use the Sharpness control on hte player to bring it back. This player has many adjustments...use them to your liking.

But, then again, I am using HDMI at 720p, the native resolution of my display, which is what most people are buying this player for (quality upconversion in the digital domain). This gives you the pure quality this DVD player is capable of.....and not getting dumbed down by the mediocre scaler found in most displays.

To all:

Be sure if you are comparing to write down all of the settings you have in the player BEFORE upgrading so you can compare apples to apples. All settings get reset to factory defaults after the firmware upgrade (which is 480i and component). Ick....

The volume of adjustments in this player is amazing....take the time to set it up to match your display....and you will most likely be amazed.

Check these out as well:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=509280

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5175528#post5175528

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5165596#post5165596

While results can vary from display to display and from eyes to eyes, I'm pleased with 536. I think it represents a solid improvement.

However, as is true with any firmware update, if a problem isn't seen, then think twice about an update as it does entail some risk (if done outside of a service center).

LiteUp!

Thanks for all your contributions. Solid work. Isn't the S97 amazing in what it offers? While I think some manufacturers purposely hold back configurable options, Panasonic seems to have thrown in everything but the kitchen sink.

Paul

Paul,

Thanks......more to come. ;)

I own several very high end Denon components and numerous Panasonic DVD players. I am very happy with this player...especially what it offers for the money.

Does any one pair it with sony 60xs955 lcd rptv?

Does the s97 have disc memory ? I know when I had the 975 it had a really good disc memory and could remember the location of where you left off on the disc and could do this for several discs. Can the s97 do that ?

Can anyone tell me why there is not an eject button on the remote? My harmony will eject the s97s but not the actual remote?

Originally posted by Mixdoctor
Does the s97 have disc memory ? I know when I had the 975 it had a really good disc memory and could remember the location of where you left off on the disc and could do this for several discs. Can the s97 do that ? I don't have this player but have been looking at both this one and the Sony. I believe the Panasonic has 5 disc memory and I know the Sony has 40 disc memory.

Originally posted by Mixdoctor
Does the s97 have disc memory ? I know when I had the 975 it had a really good disc memory and could remember the location of where you left off on the disc and could do this for several discs. Can the s97 do that ?

Yes, but unlike the Sony which automatically remembers a number of discs when you hit stop, you have to tell the S97 to remember your position. There is a button on the remote called Position Memory or something like that. If you hit that while playing a disc, the s97 will remember the spot. It lets you store 5 of these I believe.

A little annoying to have to remember to press the button but the good news is that it doesn't wipe out a spot on a disc you wanted to remember b/c you've watched a number of discs since then.

Originally posted by zoro
Does any one pair it with sony 60xs955 lcd rptv?

I pair it with my Sony 60'' XBR LCD RPTV

Until then, you can use any other Panasonic DVD remote that has an eject button. Or you can program it into your programmable remote. There are files for this all over the internet.

Any news on 540 firmware?

Vaporwear for all intents and purposes.

hehehehe...... ;)

Originally posted by Bruno1453
Vaporwear for all intents and purposes.

Is it possible to go back to a previous version after applying the newest firmware?

I'm not aware of 528 firmware floating around the internet.

Sango?

Paul

Originally posted by Starred
Is it possible to go back to a previous version after applying the newest firmware?
I would be VERY careful concerning downgrading from a higher to a lower firmware version!

I remember various adsl router owners who "killed" their devices trying to downgrade from a higher firmware version!

Not shure if that applies to the S97, but you never know....

TAKE CARE!

yours,
Bjoern

So, lcd rptvs should be taken as lcds or projection tvs? in set up

I would think LCD TV/Projector is the correct setting. LCD is the key part since they require different contrast/brightness settings.

Have a look a the bottom of the first post of the Panasonic FAQ thread. Today, I added Hugh2's findings from November concerning the "TV Type" setting. The TV Type settings are operable if one is *not* using the manual "USER" settings.

Paul

Originally posted by bkushner
Can anyone tell me why there is not an eject button on the remote? My harmony will eject the s97s but not the actual remote?


Where did you get the command for eject and programed to the Harmony?

I did not see any mention of the menu anomaly (mentioned in the FAQ thread) addressed in the Addressed/Not addressed update for the updated firmware. Is this assumed to be a player problem?

I have the 536 version of firmware as it was shipped, and I have experienced the menu anomaly.

I have to say I am very please with the picture thus far. Of course I was using a low budget JVC with s-video before this. Now with the S97 via HDMI to my Epson Cinema 500, the picture looks stunning. Still playing with it and making a few adjustments. I think it is probably time for me to invest in DVE!

Another question, what is HDMI color space?

I've never seen any 528 firmware floating around so far. Even if there is one floating around, it wouldn't be downgradable unless it was modified.

Sango

Originally posted by LiteUp!
hehehehe...... ;)

Something you'd care to share ?

;) ;) ;)

A little side note:

Just for fun I put the DVD-S97 firmware update CD that I created from a link provided at the beginning of this thread into my Panasonic DVD-F87 and it automatically updated the firmware without asking me any questions. When it was done it displayed GOOD on the DVD player display. I now have firmware version 81H552. It also set everything back to factory defaults.

Yikes!! that's a pretty risky move but glad it worked out thou.

That is risky, you could have ended up with a CD player only or a toaster!

Wow, amazing that such a great product spurrs all of the coverage, and well worth the effort. BEST PLAYER out there easily, under 1k usd.

For future reference, what is the "color space"?

As far as missing "open" button, I dont miss it cause I usually never opened till i was at the unit anyway and I am glad my 3 year old cant do it remotely......or my cats do it while laying on the remote. wife actually pref's no button.

This player almost makes me wanna upgrade now to an hdmi unit. it seems like there will be an even better picture waiting for me but I love my Tosh 57hx81. Is there a profound difference between component and HDMI?

Bladerunner

Very cool!

Originally posted by Nascar Dog
A little side note:

Just for fun I put the DVD-S97 firmware update CD that I created from a link provided at the beginning of this thread into my Panasonic DVD-F87 and it automatically updated the firmware without asking me any questions. When it was done it displayed GOOD on the DVD player display. I now have firmware version 81H552. It also set everything back to factory defaults.

Originally posted by Bjoern
I would be VERY careful concerning downgrading from a higher to a lower firmware version!

I remember various adsl router owners who "killed" their devices trying to downgrade from a higher firmware version!

Not shure if that applies to the S97, but you never know....

TAKE CARE!

yours,
Bjoern

Agree you have to be careful but I played around with the zenith dvd318 firmware back and forth without problem. I found white and black crush issues either way so I finally brought it back. Others have also had success reversing firmware with other players so I would be less hesitant about switching firmware though your caution is warranted. Edge enhancement doesn't bother me if the overall image quality is improved, which may have been the case with the old firmware but at the expense of more macroblocking.

Bladerunner

I use hdmi exclusively with the s97 because the PQ is so much better than component. Others run a 480 signal from component over iscan to upconvert the signal though this seems unnecessary to me because the s97 does such a good job of scaling. Also you can't get 720p or 1080i over component with this player the way you can with the zenith or lg unit (with earlier firmware). If you want superior PQ go for hdmi in the s97 with a display that can accept the input but if you want to keep your existing tv you should consider the lg which upconverts through component which I believe provides a better image than s97 through component. Don't even consider the dvi output on the LG because of the crush issues.

Just in case others are wondering, this Panasonic DVDPUPDT.FRM file does apparently have firmware updates for their later generation players as well. No, there is nothing in there for the XP30/50/RP82, but I put the disc in my F85 and it did read it, but didn't upgrade since I already had the latest firmware (71M266). It did however reset the player back to defaults and said "GOOD" on the display. I would think all the S27, S47, S97, F85, F86, F87 players have firmware in this update file.

Originally posted by Nascar Dog
A little side note:

Just for fun I put the DVD-S97 firmware update CD that I created from a link provided at the beginning of this thread into my Panasonic DVD-F87 and it automatically updated the firmware without asking me any questions. When it was done it displayed GOOD on the DVD player display. I now have firmware version 81H552. It also set everything back to factory defaults.

Most likely it's using a differnt kind of file system for the older units as it needs 3 files unlike just the one.

Liteup!

Since you seem to understand this resolution business fairly well what output would I set for my Sony 34" HD tube TV? (I guess Bladerunner would call it a "glassjob".) Since it is not a fixed pixel device I don't know if it has a native resolution. I have been running in 1080i.

Soundman11

soundman11,

Tube TV's are analog devices, so they really don't have a native resolution, and everything has to go analog anyway, so component may even be better. Your best bet is probably 1080i (if you try HDMI), but I would compare that to 480p component as well. The big advantage of this player is to people who have digital displays and can keep the DVD source information in the digital domain in the entire path. Your tube TV is analog....so there will have to be at least one D/A conversion along the way.

I tried the new firmware on an s35 and it stated "no update is required at this time". Anyone tried it on the other panny dvd players besides the f87?

Most tube HDTV's are 1080i and 540p if thats the case with yours then 1080i would be a good setting.
I really hope they release another firmware update that completely fixes the macro-blocking issue. With the 536 update the macro-blocking isn't as bad on my JVC Dila but still not good enough to where I can watch anything in 720p. I'm currently using component set to 480p and every thing looks clean.

muhahahaha.........

LiteUp!

You're so bad. ;)

Paul

Jakeman,

"Edge enhancement doesn't bother me if the overall image quality is improved, which may have been the case with the old firmware but at the expense of more macroblocking. "

Thanks for the input. Youre probably dead-on with that one. I guess so far I favor the sharpness and my own perceived advantages in the old firmware at the expense of what i find to be easily tolerable but more severe MB on occasion. Blacks are worse on 528 but this unit still shows no pink, whiched irritated me far more than MB.


"If you want superior PQ go for hdmi in the s97 with a display that can accept the input but if you want to keep your existing tv you should consider the lg which upconverts through component which I believe provides a better image than s97 through component. Don't even consider the dvi output on the LG because of the crush issues."

I thought about the zenith/lg at one time but did not want to invest the time and effort of the wild goose chase for the older unit to upconvert thru component......I'll happily keep the s97 until I upgrade. I have a hunch that will be sooner than later. I may move to CT in the next 2 months or so and I would probably thro my tv into the deal when i sell my house.

Lite,

Did i see the #'s "540" creeping around here? what up wit dat?

Bladerunner

Originally posted by LiteUp!
muhahahaha.........

You are a digitaly sneaky cinematic afficianado!!!!!

LiteUp,

Is that a joke or is 540 available? You were getting my hopes up.

What is with the people who are now saying they liked the picture better with the old firmware (528).

Can we get 528 from somewhere? Or do you recommend buying two units, updating one and comparing results?

Oh well, been 10 months now, I think I have narrowed my choices to the Oppo or the Panasonic for a Upconverting Player.

I am sure if a wait another month or two another player will come out and I will keep procrastinating and holding off for a player waiting for the "perfect" upconerting player to bless my home theater.

Afasso,

Dont let me influence you... I must have cataracts..LOL ..Read my post , it might be just me BUT trust me, I am quite open minded to the firmwares and.......Liteup !!!! What are you hiding in that superbit case of yours?

Bladerunner

"men are measured by their band-width" wife said that

?????????????? (http://img119.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img119&image=display3nz.jpg)

It's no joke...looking at it now.

Can't imagine...... ;)

Paul

That was made up using PhotoShop.

Wow!

[lol]
http://img233.exs.cx/img233/8963/fake1vu.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img233.exs.cx/img233/669/dscf00650od.th.jpg (http://img233.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img233&image=dscf00650od.jpg)

OK!!!!!

540 available for download!!!!!

Information found in the first post of this thread.

BIG HUGE "THANK YOU" to LiteUp! and Sango. Sango is King of the firmware! LiteUp! provided the terrific update instruction page and is hosting the firmware updates. They deserve a big, big thanks.

Paul

Is the layer change completly gone now ? with 540

Dazog,

I'll check this and other things soon. Sango...nice joke above.....you're crazy!

Not enough testing, I just gotten it today.

I'm perfectly fine!! Just hoped that no one noticed it ! =P

excellent i will hold off till liteup checks all the things that needed to be fixed and if they are :)

The firmware has just been unleashed, it's late, so impressions are a bit sketchy at this point. I've posted a few quick impressions in the first post of the thread.

Paul

i thought u 3 never sleep heh

We do sometimes but only at random hours so no one notices! ;)

Paul

I just did a quick check on 2 things. The Incorrect Progressive Flags issue in Auto2 mode is still there (no problem in Auto1). The Layer Change appears to be the same as 536....just under 1 second.

i wish there was someone we could email these problems to so they will fix em

a new firmware again:eek: i just installed 536, is there any idea to install this one will i notcie any more diffrances.

THANKS PAUL, SANGO and LITEUP for your terrific work with the s-97 threads

THANKS!!!!!

ZoomAir,

You're welcome.

Some early impressions in the first post of the thread. Your results may be different.

Paul

Skarpachi,

Don't know. Haven't tried flashing back. Flashing players involves some risk.

Paul

First... does anyone have a DVD-S97 working with either an Infocus 7200 or Toshiba MT8 via HDMI... because I cant get it to work. have the latest PJ firmware (v3.9) a certified HDMI cable and an Infocus adapter. I already know it works fine with a 5700 BTW.. and I know my PJ works fine with an Arcam.

Second. The DVD-S97 seems to use rather strange modes, ie 750p instead of 720p.. why is this? Infocus seem to think thats my problem.

Third. Does anyone have an email/phone contact for Panasonic (anywhere) who actually know their stuff or has direct input to the firmware upgrade process.

Last. Does anyone have release notes for the new f/w versions.. if so are there any mentions of known compatability issues?

daz-about-to-give-up-on-HDMI-and-revert-to-component

daz,

We have no release notes on the firmware updates. I've never seen any.

Paul

Dazog,

These problems have been emailed to them. I know they have been notified about the Incorrect Progressive Flags and the Zoom blurriness. These problems are really no big deal as the Incorrect Progressive Flags issue is a rare DVD defect that the player would try to correct. If you have a disc with this issue, you can run in Auto1 mode and there are no problems there. The zoom is another matter.....but I never use it anyway.

Originally posted by Dazog
i wish there was someone we could email these problems to so they will fix em

540:

Noticed something. It appears that settings (other than those on the main setup menu) are not saved when power is removed and will revert to factory defaults. Example: if HDMI output is set for 1080i and power is removed then power reinstated HDMI output is now 480p. Affects the USER settings as well. Turning the player on and off does not affect the settings. Disconnecting power will.

Paul

Is this 540 a sanctioned release? Or is it bootlegged and will not show up in production?

Paul/Sango: Any info as to what 540 achieves to improve/fix?

540 is a final release to Panasonic Technicians. Sango can confirm as well.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
540:

Noticed something. It appears that settings (other than those on the main setup menu) are not saved when power is removed and will revert to factory defaults. Example: if HDMI output is set for 1080i and power is removed then power reinstated HDMI output is now 480p. Affects the USER settings as well. Turning the player on and off does not affect the settings. Disconnecting power will.

Paul
Paul, did this just start with 540? Does this problem cause you to rethink your decision to upgrade? Have you seen and change in PQ with firmware 540?

I ran another quick test this morning. The 2-2 Cadence Film Flags test still fails in Auto1 mode only (Auto2 is OK). 2-2 Cadence is only used in European films. I have some foreign films so I stay in Auto2 mode. It pretty much looks like this firmware update is to only address the pink tint issue to black and white scenes and MB. As Paul reports, it basically looks like the pink issue is now totally fixed. MB tests still remain...and I can't really do them because I don't have any MB with my display at all. To me, 540 is starting to look like 536 with the slight pinkness fixed. We need more input on MB testing from all of you out there with your various displays. Time to chime in guys and gals!

Daniel,

I *think* it started with 540. Mine (so far) is the only report of this behavior, however. The behavior does not cause me to rethink the upgrade. I don't unplug the player unless I'm doing a comparison and have to pull the player out.

Early impressions are in the first post of the thread.

Paul

I know this has been touched on before, but I dont recall seeing a
definative yes answer.

Can any owners of region free UK players confirm they are still region free after upgrade?

Region free was reported to be untouched with 536. Don't know with 540. My player still plays Region 2! ;)

Paul

Folks, I need your help. I just bought the s97 and my first pj . i can only preview the pj for two hours and then i won't be able to return it if i don't like it. I have already used the pj for close to that amount of time. Now I would like to see how the pj does with the hdmi-dvi connection. i don't have time to figure out how to access this output on the s97 so i would appreciate any one's help in directing me right out of the box with the s97. The manual looks fairly vague regarding accessing the hdmi output and upconverting the signal. any step by step intstructions would be greatly apreciated. Thank You in advance.

Tom

Paul, is there any point in leaving AV ENHANCER to auto? vs off etc

We need to know which PJ you have to help you...but #1, if your PJ only has a DVI input and no HDMI, then you will need an adapter plug to convert the cable end from HDMI at the S97 to DVI at your PJ. These normally cost about $30.00.

Originally posted by oilndrums2
Folks, I need your help. I just bought the s97 and my first pj . i can only preview the pj for two hours and then i won't be able to return it if i don't like it. I have already used the pj for close to that amount of time. Now I would like to see how the pj does with the hdmi-dvi connection. i don't have time to figure out how to access this output on the s97 so i would appreciate any one's help in directing me right out of the box with the s97. The manual looks fairly vague regarding accessing the hdmi output and upconverting the signal. any step by step intstructions would be greatly apreciated. Thank You in advance.

Tom

Originally posted by oilndrums2
Folks, I need your help. I just bought the s97 and my first pj . i can only preview the pj for two hours and then i won't be able to return it if i don't like it. I have already used the pj for close to that amount of time. Now I would like to see how the pj does with the hdmi-dvi connection. i don't have time to figure out how to access this output on the s97 so i would appreciate any one's help in directing me right out of the box with the s97. The manual looks fairly vague regarding accessing the hdmi output and upconverting the signal. any step by step intstructions would be greatly apreciated. Thank You in advance.

Tom

I'm doing this from memory... When playing dvd click Display Button on remote. Select Picture Menu then go to Video Output. Select 720p or 1080i. Make your pj's input is using the hdmi/dvi.

Skarpachi:

Nope. Has been mentioned several times before for similar questions.

The answer is, if the lower version has been modified, otherwise it wouldn't work.

Sango

Regarding the new 540 firmware update does anyone know exactly what this version is supposed to fix? Has the macro-blocking issue been fixed or reduced with this update?

Two things need to be considered. The update was just received yesturday and Panasonic doesn't document what they fix.

We do have a bit of an analsys but more time is needed.

egore,

Please check the first post of this thread for our testing progress so far.

Thank you Sango. I got an odd response from Panasonic Canada this morning, when I enquired about the 540 firmware update:

Please be advised that version 85E540 is not for the macro-blocking issue
therefore it will not be necessary to have your AE700 upgraded to this
version. The 85E540 only corrects the video edge if it is not centred when
connected to certain LCD Projectors.

But I found your zip file, downloaded, burned and installed it, and from a preliminary look at the various Dolby Digital trailers on my Sound & Vision disc, all of which had varying degrees of problems in v528 and v536, I would say this is a HUGE improvement on my DLP display. Noise is now minimal, macroblocking in the helicopter flyover and the Egyptian tomb are now non-existent! Will run through some movie dvd's later today, but so far, I'm quite pleased!

So it looks like when you changed versions the MB went down I guess is what you're saying! =)
----------
I think Paul should add my response in too on the first page.

I can still catch glimpses of MB but it's barely noticable and more difficult to catch using my anime as a good form of testing.

Originally posted by Jay Suburb
But I found your zip file, downloaded, burned and installed it, and from a preliminary look at the various Dolby Digital trailers on my Sound & Vision disc, all of which had varying degrees of problems in v528 and v536, I would say this is a HUGE improvement on my DLP display. Noise is now minimal, macroblocking in the helicopter flyover and the Egyptian tomb are now non-existent! Will run through some movie dvd's later today, but so far, I'm quite pleased!

What kind of DLP display do you have?

Upgraded to 540 firmware out of boredom more than anything (use component interlaced out predominantly) and immediately noticed two changes.

1- menu navigation is noticeably faster. I understood this was an improvement with the 536 firmware but I didn't notice any difference until this latest upgrade.

2- Overscan has been tweaked somewhat. Previously overscan (480i output) would vary from 3 to 7 pixels and now with firmware 540 ranges from 3 to 5 pixels.

Anyone notice overscan changes using progressive out?

I editted this post as I had forgotten the Iscans overscan was set to 1 which gave the impression of equall overscan on all sides. Setting this to 0 still does show a slight improvement, the side which was previously cropped 7 pixels is now cropped 5 pixels.

Hugh2!! =)

Haven't seen you for some time!

Oh BTW: why not turn on your online status!! you're always shown as offline!!

Originally posted by Bladerunner1959

"provides a better image than s97 through component. Don't even consider the dvi output on the LG because of the crush issues."

I thought about the zenith/lg at one time but did not want to invest the time and effort of the wild goose chase for the older unit to upconvert thru component
Bladerunner

There is firmware for the LG/Zenith 318 floating around to fix the white crush over DVI issue (and all newer units have that one), it can be downflushed to the old firmware doing the upconvertion via component as well.

Still, most of the time I watch movies on the S97 but the 318 can still do some things my S97 can't (Convert PAL to NTSC output, Play MP3 DVD's, zoom great).

Originally posted by Starc

Still, most of the time I watch movies on the S97 but the 318 can still do some things my S97 can't (Convert PAL to NTSC output, Play MP3 DVD's, zoom great).

Yes it was a great player over component 1080i only but can't touch the s97 for overall performance.

Sango and LiteUp

Thanks for getting v540 and the quick analysis. Now Sango if you can get v.528 I will be very grateful indeed. Only then can we really do a complete analysis of what was improved upon and what was left behind. It would be important to people like me who never had much macroblocking in the first place and others who continue to report loss of detail on their displays. Call me picky but there is no free lunch here so a comparison of v528 vs v536 vs v540 would do it and shed light on where the panny engineers have put there priorities and which version is optimal for individual displays.

Originally posted by Sango
Hugh2!! =)

Haven't seen you for some time!

Oh BTW: why not turn on your online status!! you're always shown as offline!!

I'm generally satisfied with everything presently so have been spending some time perusing the very entertaining power cord thread.... oh only if life were so simple.

As to the second question, I rather enjoy the "snake in the grass" status I presently use.

What kind of DLP display do you have?

Toshiba (LG) 44

Originally posted by Hugh2

Anyone notice overscan changes using progressive out?

Using a Panasonic AE-700 via HDMI, it looks like the overscan at 720P is reduced somewhat. I am now seeing about 9 of the tick marks on both sides and the bottom using DVE's overscan test pattern(12-17), and 5 at the top. Previously I was seeing about 6-7 on the sides and bottom and 5 on the top.

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
540:

Noticed something. It appears that settings (other than those on the main setup menu) are not saved when power is removed and will revert to factory defaults. Example: if HDMI output is set for 1080i and power is removed then power reinstated HDMI output is now 480p. Affects the USER settings as well. Turning the player on and off does not affect the settings. Disconnecting power will.

Paul

This really made me leary of performing the update, fortunately I havent had this problem with my unit. Ie: after disconnecting power, unit comes back up in 720P, brightness and contrast are where I had them set previously. Just in case I saved the settings in all 3 user profiles.

Firmware updates involve risk. Is this result with the 540 update?

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
This result is with with the 540 update?

Paul

Yep. :)

Edit: However power was only disconnected for about a minute to test.

Thanks for the report! I'll recheck and, if needed, reflash. My power was disconnected only for a few seconds to get the result. Perhaps I made a mistake.

Paul

I also have the 97s connected to a DLP (Samsung HLP6163W).
I will try the update to 540 tonight when I get home and post my observations.

Installed v540 and noticed less MB. I like using animation (Justice League) as a test and noticed a decrease in mcroblocking. I also noticed quicker menu navigation. I run HDMI >HDMI at 1080.
After installation all menu options are set to default - as expected.

As a side note has anyone watched the movie 'Saw' and the horrible, rather unbearable, MB in many spots of the film. I may have to rent it again and see the difference with v540.

Thanks again to this forum and all the great folks in it.

JJ

I flashed mine last night. The weird thing is that the display kept showing "U70-1" although the player worked fine. I could not get rid of that display despite powering off and disconnecting the power.

This morning, the display is gone and the correct information is being displayed.

Weird...

Maybe some glitch happening. I don't have the manual where I'm at, to look it up.

I would say try the reset sequence just incase to clear any memory issues up.

U70-1 "The connected equipment is not HDMI compatible" thats from the manual.
I upgraded to the new firmware but i still get the same macro-blocking on my JVC D-ila that I had with the 536 firmware. I hope they are still working on a firmware update to completely fix the macro-blocking.

I also notice that on the movie 'Saw' about the MB. I have a toshiba 57hdx82 rptv. I'm using DVI input on my set. I update to 540 today and will see what happens. I'm going to watch Ice Age and Under World tonight.:rolleyes:

Jsil,

the scene in Ice Age where the saber tooths attack the village will be a great test track for the MB especially in the cave when they try to get the baby from momma eskimo...

Sango, Paul & Liteup,

Thanks guys for outstanding work on this. As posted earlier my s97 is a v528 unit still, I just burned v540 firmware disk, I still have a v536 as well....In your opinions's do I need too load the v536 1st then the v540 or can I go straight from v528 to the v540 and not load v536 at all?

Bladerunner

Judging from the posts I'm not convinced v540 is much of improvement from v536, if any. I am checking with panasonic on Monday to get their take on this version which was not officially "released" like v536 .

Bladerunner1959:

The firmware is cumulative so you can jump direclty to 540 if you want. You could jump to 536 first to see what differneces you notice first before jumping to 540, but it's up to you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jakeman:

540 is official.

Sango

I just bought my 2nd S97 this morning from Tweeter. Got it from the same person who sold me my last one 2 months ago and also sold me my Panasonic DLP and 26" Sharp Aquos. He told me that they were informed that the S97 was being discontinued in favor of the S77 and that the only difference was the HDMI cable and the updated firmware.

He said that since Panasonic doesn't release their firmware to the public and updates would have to be done via a service center (at a high cost to Panasonic if the unit is still under warranty) it would be cheaper to introduce a new model number.

This salesperson isn't the brightest candle on the cake, and I'm not so certain of the logic in this case (I'm not sure of the volume of folks who would actually catch this while still under warranty), but at least he must have heard something about the S77 and the firmware issues of the S97. Maybe Panasonic just wants to make it right. Anyway, I have both units flashed with the 540 firmware now.

Fired up & finished Harry Potter & the Prisoner of Azkaban. Didn't notice any macroblocking. Of course, i watched it during the day so it probably wasn't as detectable as it could have been. (Was on CRT RPTV, btw)

Keep up the great "finds" guys.

I'll have up by tonight a MB reference scene which can be used as a test. Very visible using 528. Haven't tested using the newer versions since I did not have the DVD(s) on me until today.

Thanks for the U70-1 explanation. I was testing on a TV using the component outputs and was not using the HDMI-DVI connection (through a DVI switch that is HDCP compatible). I'll try that tonight.

So, has anyone heard any more info on the new DVD-S77? I am about to purchase a DVD-S97 but will wait to hear more info about the S77. Is it better than the S97 or is it missing some features or HDMI cable?

Thanks.

It's possible (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5243973#post5243973).

With 540, I get virtually no pixel cropping with my HT1000 at 720p (only 1 on the left side). This is excellent (I did not test with 536).

I have a 12 second clip scene which needs be burned to DVD media to be used as a reference to determine macroblocking.

here (http://home.comcast.net/~avs_sango/MBTestScene.zip)

Use this in interlaced mode or use the other Panasonic players, you might be quite surprized about what you see.

Found on onecall's site.

Panasonic DVDS29 DVD Player

LAS VEGAS, NV (January 5, 2005) — Panasonic adds two new multi-format players to its 2005 DVD product line. Both models are planned for delivery in spring.

Model DVD-S29 can play back DVD-video, DVD-RAM, DVD-R1, +R1, DVD-RW1, +RW1, video and audio CD, CD-R/CD-RW2, WMA and MP3** formats. This player boasts advanced progressive scan image rendering for clear pictures with less jitter, high quality sound with enhanced frequency response in CD playback mode, and Dialog Enhancer for DVD movies.

The new DVD-S77 can play back all the formats listed above, plus 5.1 channel DVD-Audio, JPEG and HDCD. This model also adds HighMAT for enhanced interoperability with personal computers, and HDMI interface for exceptional audio and video quality with a single connection.

Digital TV owners can watch DVDs in higher resolution, with enhanced color and detail. The DVD-S77 can up-convert the video resolution of ordinary DVD titles to 720p/1080i to more closely match the capabilities of today's high definition televisions.

Panasonic’s DVD-S97 HDMI DVD Player and DVD–F87 5-disc changer continue in the line.

MODEL AVAILABILITY MSRP***
DVD-S29 March 2005 $69.95
DVD-S77 April 2005 $249.95
DVD-S97 Current $299.95
DVD-F87 Changer Current $129.95

About Panasonic Consumer Electronics Company
Based in Secaucus, N.J., Panasonic Consumer Electronics Company is a Division of Panasonic Corporation of North America, the principal North American subsidiary of Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. (NYSE: MC) and the hub of Panasonic's U.S. marketing, sales, service and R&D operations. Information about Panasonic products is available at www.panasonic.com. Additional company information for journalists is available at www.panasonic.com/pressroom or through the company’s toll-free fax-back system at 888-734-7490.

http://www.onecall.com/NewAndHot.mpt?ProductID=26658

Originally posted by stephenfrancis

MODEL AVAILABILITY MSRP***
DVD-S29 March 2005 $69.95
DVD-S77 April 2005 $249.95
DVD-S97 Current $299.95
DVD-F87 Changer Current $129.95


So it smells like the S77 and S97 will be sold concurrently this year. The question is what do you gain by going with the S97 over the S77? I literally was gonna order the S97 this week, but now am unsure.

Steve

Steve, I am in the same predicament as you are ... S97 or S77 ???

>>The question is what do you gain by going with the S97 over the S77?<<

Possibly the Faroudja chip? Even with the macroblocking and pink tint problems, the Faroudja deinterlacing for film and video is superior to the Panasonic developed methods. If the S77 doesn't have the Faroudja chip then it won't be worth purchasing. DVD's have too many flag errors to rely on a strictly flag-reading deinterlacer, which is what Panasonic uses for their non-Faroudja models - and their video deinterlacing is unacceptable since it's not motion adaptive.

Originally posted by Disclord
>>The question is what do you gain by going with the S97 over the S77?<<

Possibly the Faroudja chip? Even with the macroblocking and pink tint problems, the Faroudja deinterlacing for film and video is superior to the Panasonic developed methods. If the S77 doesn't have the Faroudja chip then it won't be worth purchasing. DVD's have too many flag errors to rely on a strictly flag-reading deinterlacer, which is what Panasonic uses for their non-Faroudja models - and their video deinterlacing is unacceptable since it's not motion adaptive.

If that's the difference, it's a no brainer. I guess we'll have to wait to find out more details.

Originally posted by Disclord
>>The question is what do you gain by going with the S97 over the S77?<<

Possibly the Faroudja chip? Even with the macroblocking and pink tint problems, the Faroudja deinterlacing for film and video is superior to the Panasonic developed methods. Considering the description of the player states HDMI for High Quality Picture (720p/1080i) Faroudja Chip I think you have the answer.

;)

I gotten information a bit more info reguarding the update to 540. The 540 reduced MB more and corrects other problems.

Sango, is there any chance we can get an official release note from Panasonic with details?

I've done some testing on my JVC and the new 540 update and I think the macro-blocking is reduced a little bit but unfortunately it's still there. But doing my testing I discovered that 480p through component gives me a more detailed cleaner image than 720p. In 720p the image is noticeable softer maybe if I adjust the DVD players sharpness control it might look better but I hate adding false detail.
Does anybody ells notice 720p looking softer than 480p? I have used DVE to adjust both inputs properly.

RorySolley:

It doesn't look like it's possible since my source does have the full details but cannot go deeper into.

Sango

egore,

This depends on your display and its native resolution. What model display do you have? 720P is sharper for me....but my Sanyo Z2 is 1280x720 (720p) native, so it should be.

Originally posted by egore
I've done some testing on my JVC and the new 540 update and I think the macro-blocking is reduced a little bit but unfortunately it's still there. But doing my testing I discovered that 480p through component gives me a more detailed cleaner image than 720p. In 720p the image is noticeable softer maybe if I adjust the DVD players sharpness control it might look better but I hate adding false detail.
Does anybody ells notice 720p looking softer than 480p? I have used DVE to adjust both inputs properly.

LiteUp!,
I have a JVC D-ila 52Z575 native resolution is 1280x720. I also noticed that through 480p component I can have all user settings at default (0) with no white crush and it passes blacker than black, Through HDMI I have to set contrast at -1 to eliminate white crush and brightness at +1 to pass blacker than black. I'm going to see if adjusting the DVD players sharpness control helps.

Sango.

Call me suspicious but my Panasonic contact had told me they were holding off on any versions over 536 until they had a "final solution" regarding the macroblocking problem. Also it sounds from all reports that the only significant thing accomplished with 540 is a slight reduction with pixel cropping if that. My guy has been very reliable to date so I will relay the jist of my conversation. If you know something other than this about 540 I would be glad to here it. Until I get a sense that the upgrades are backward compatible I don't see rushing into this upgrade.

Jakeman:

I mentioned it a few posts above what the update did.

If the firmware were to be held off, it wouldn't be distributed to the area where the Panasonic tech's get their updates from. Since the 540 was posted there from 18th, it's official. My contact accessed that area and verified about the update before I obtain it last week.

The reason I am wary is that after weeks of viewing I too have concluded a softening of the PQ at 720p as reported by several others. Because macroblocking wasn't a big deal for me in the first place on my display i am not happy about the loss of detail but with the rest of the improvements 536 is a net plus over 528. With 540 we are still getting reports of macroblocking so what has been the tradeoff to minimize macroblocking further? Bottom line is we need more info or analysis. My contact has been very forthcoming so I will get his take on it before upgrading. It would be terrific if you can get more details from your contact especially as to the "other" improvements.

I wish I could but the part of him saying he cannot go deeper sound like it's confidential that he cannot disclose.

jakeman,

If you like edge enhancement in your picture...then crank up the sharpness setting on the player.

Sango,

I burned and ran your test clip. I viewed it on my PC as well to know what it is supposed to look like. It looks the same on my S97 (720p/HDMI) and XP30 (480p/component)....I still don't have any macroblocking with my display...even with this clip.

Originally posted by Sango
I have a 12 second clip scene which needs be burned to DVD media to be used as a reference to determine macroblocking.

here (http://home.comcast.net/~avs_sango/MBTestScene.zip)

Use this in interlaced mode or use the other Panasonic players, you might be quite surprized about what you see.

LiteUp, your display must be lucky! =) On my RPTV I can see MB at 480p - red blocks on my end. It's been reduced signifiantly when it was version 528 thou when it was at it's worse.

Has anyone else who upgraded to the 540 firmware experienced the settings not being saved when the power is removed like Paul did?

jakeman,

Forgot to add but more likely there is a firmware being developed behind the scenes with 540 being released. I guess Paul and LiteUp will have their analysis done sometime.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
jakeman,

If you like edge enhancement in your picture...then crank up the sharpness setting on the player.

Ahh. No offence Liteon butI wish it was that simple. It's not edge enhancement or sharpness that's concerning me. I know what ghosting around the edges can do to the image and the crappy transfers that abound. What I'm referring to is a real loss of detail which may be caused by tinkering with the decoder in an attempt to get rid of artifacts inherent in MPEG compression. How else can they reduce macroblocking? I can't know for sure without reverting back to v528. And because my display hardly exhibits macroblocking in the first place have I lost detail in the upgraded version? Anyway I'm going to pose a few of these questions to Panasonic service.

Daniel/Paul,

I just pulled the AC power from my S97 (540 firmware) for about 30 minutes. When I powered it back up....all was still set as I left it (720p, Auto2, and User mode settings). I don't see any issue here. Paul, maybe you made a mistake?

Originally posted by Daniel Eddy
Has anyone else who upgraded to the 540 firmware experienced the settings not being saved when the power is removed like Paul did?

jakeman,

OK...let me know what you find out, if anything. I haven't noticed any picture softening myself with 536 or 540. Strange.

Also, I checked overscan (pixel cropping) with 85E540 tonight. Using HDMI at 720p ot 1080i and testing with the pattern in AVIA, I have 0 pixel cropping at the top, bottom, left, and right. Looks great to me. But I saw no problems with this before anyway. If some of you think you are seeing this, it must be your display doing it.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
Daniel/Paul,

I just pulled the AC power from my S97 (540 firmware) for about 30 minutes. When I powered it back up....all was still set as I left it (720p, Auto2, and User mode settings). I don't see any issue here. Paul, maybe you made a mistake?

LiteUp, thanks for checking. Glad to hear that you didn't see any issue. Paul, let us know what you come up with.

Things fixed:
1.) Layer Change pause reduction [[same as 536, about .9 sec.]]
2.) Player responsiveness increase [[appears same as 536, nice and quick.]]
3.) Recovery Time improvement [[same as 536]]. This can be seen on the Galaxy Quest intro. and the Faroudja test disc using the diagonal moving box and lines test.
4.) 3-2 Cadence Video Flags passes in Auto1 and Auto2 modes (Galaxy Quest intro using the planet fly-by scene, the 3-2 film pulldown is grabbed even quicker now). [[Same as 536.]]
5.) Film grain/MPEG background noise reduction (edge enhancement reduction in 720p and 1080i over HDMI). [[Looks the same as 536 to me.]]
6.) MB reduction for people that are experiencing it, although there is no way to quantitatively measure this. MB is not present with all displays. I don't have any MB with my Sanyo PLV-Z2 720p LCD projector. I checked some new Anime clips from Sango and one clip he posted a link to on the Forum (Geneon intro). I had no MB at all with my Sanyo Z2 display at 720p/HDMI. I compared this to my XP30, it looked the same (MB-wise).
7.) I can now set my brightness to 0 (instead of +1 with 85E528) to get perfect BTB using DVE (I am running in 720p over HDMI/DVI). [[Same as 536, 0 is perfect using DVE.]]
8.) Pink tint reduction in black and white scenes, though some may still be seeing a small amount of pinkness, I don't think I am seeing it on my display. [[I can't see any pinkness with 540 using DVE test patterns for BTB, grayscale, etc.]]

Things still not fixed:
1.) Incorrect Progressive Flags test still fails in Auto2 mode only (strange since other FL2310-based players don't have this problem, so this is easily fixable via firmware, and the problem is not present in Auto1 mode). [[Still fails in 540.]]
2.) 2-2 Cadence Film Flags test still fails in Auto1 mode only. [[Still fails in v540.]]
3.) Picture fuzzy when using the Zoom feature in the player. [[Still the same in 540.]]
4.) Panasonic, can you start posting firmware updates on your website?

From what I can tell (and Paul's/Sango's comments as well), it looks like they removed any traces of pink tint in B&W material and more MB improvements for 540. It's like a fine-tuned version of 536.

Guys,
_________________________


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by LiteUp!
jakeman,

If you like edge enhancement in your picture...then crank up the sharpness setting on the player.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Ahh. No offence Liteon butI wish it was that simple. It's not edge enhancement or sharpness that's concerning me. I know what ghosting around the edges can do to the image and the crappy transfers that abound. What I'm referring to is a real loss of detail which may be caused by tinkering with the decoder in an attempt to get rid of artifacts inherent in MPEG compression. How else can they reduce macroblocking? I can't know for sure without reverting back to v528. And because my display hardly exhibits macroblocking in the first place have I lost detail in the upgraded version? Anyway I'm going to pose a few of these questions to Panasonic service.
____________________________________________________________

My 1st s97, which was returned for a "shuting off" bug, was upgraded from v528 to v536 before the return..... As far as picture detail, sharpness and softening, my opinion is as follows

-v528 w/component to my Tosh rptv 57hx81 WAS sharper in detail, aside from the edge enhancement, a favorable tradeoff for me. Notice immediately a change in detail and picture upon upgrade

-v536 softened the picture while reducing the edge enhancement , Noticed immediately,

-v528 depth and background seem more detailed, slightly but better

-v536 fleshtones and color saturation was immediately lesser quality, not as profoundly but noticeable

-menu MAY be slower but i'll take more detail over speed, its already fast

I am still running v528. Occasional MB is no bother and the 2nd unit displays no pink, cant explain that but I really cant see it. Not just justifying the v528. I have a feeling that the future firmwares will pull it all together. I'll take this unit over any other using ferret poo as firmware.

Bladerunner

Bladerunner,

All of your notes above are using component 480p? I can tell you that HDMI is quite a bit sharper to my display than component. Have you tried HDMI? Does your display have DVI or HDMI?

I'm curious who is LiteOn! lol!

Liteup,

I wish I had hdmi or dvi but.... NO, just component on my 2002 model rptv. I love it but I know Benchmark scores for the s97 with hdmi are even higher than the legendary rp-82/xp-50's. That future hookup is one of the reasons I picked this unit in addition to it's amazing performance. Ii look forward to the my next monitor matching up with this player via hdmi.

Sango,

Liteon...... is what my kids and wife leave........ ALL THE TIME!!!! I'm just lucky to have juice to run my theater. Thanks for the firmware upgrade tips

Bladerunner

Is anyone running the DVD-S97 with a PT-AE700 and if so do you see any macroblocking or other issues?

Thanks

Hello,

Tried unplugging and replugging in the S97 and this time the settings held. 1080i still engaged and well as the USER picture settings. Didn't re-flash.

Can't explain it.

I'll post this new result in the first post as well as your report LiteUp!

Paul

I know, stupid question coming.......at risk of emabarrasment

What is "flash" or "re-flash" ?

My guess simply confirming which firmware is running? or Upgrading the firmware?

Bla....de....ru...nner

Possibly a little hiccup occured when the unit was unplugged.

Oh yes, add this to the start of the post.

Update released officialy on 18, I recieved on the 24th.

My source does have full detail the changes 536->540. One of them is more reduction in MB and more. They didn't perform any changes to the picture. They have correct other errors but my source cannot go deeper into details reguarding this.

If you already have the latest version, putting in the disc again doesn't do anything except resets the unit back to factory settings.

Is anyone running the DVD-S97 with a PT-AE700 and if so do you see any macroblocking or other issues?
I'm using this combo. Don't notice any MB or other issues. I was using the Momitsu V880 before, but the Panny S97 has noticeably better PQ.

Sango,

Updated the first post w/your info.

Paul

Upgraded to 540 from 536 using Panny 50DL54 and noticed 2 things when using HDMI set at 720p:

1. Less MB and pink tinting, but not completely removed

and

2. It "seems" to show a slightly softer picture on my display to my eyes....??


Solution: I am exchanging this unit for a completely new S97 and will upgrade new unit to v536 and wait until more +ve reports are given re:v540.
I would rather deal with the MB problem than suffer in a decrease in PQ!

Also, I am returning this unit b/c it occasionally 'turns off' after ejecting a DVD, then closing the tray (without DVD). Not sure if anyone has experienced the same problem (not sure if using a power bar/surge protector will prevent the occasional 'turn off' problem). Still have ~2 days under return policy.

Spoke to Panasonic this morning. They have no information regarding v540 and are recommending only installation of v536. According to their internal postings no further upgrades are forthcoming at this time. 540 looks like a testing version as best as I can determine . I'm passing for now pending someone coming up with some great improvement over v536. I continue to suspect Panasonic is doing something to the decoder to reduce blocking while sacrificing some detail but that remains conjecture on my part. In any event I am still very pleased with the unit.

They did provide me with some more info on v536. Reading from an internal email to service centre staff she stated that v536 was designed to improve picture quality by addressing 2 main areas affecting 720p and 1080i over hdmi. Firstly it was to reduce blockiness and secondly to improve the "transition of the image from dark to bright scenes" ( wish I knew what that means.) She couldn't elaborate on edge enhancement or softness issues but the email recommended the upgrade for improved overall performance and picture quality.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jodeci
[B]Upgraded to 540 from 536 using Panny 50DL54 and noticed 2 things when using HDMI set at 720p:


Solution: I am exchanging this unit for a completely new S97 and will upgrade new unit to v536 and wait until more +ve reports are given re:v540.
I would rather deal with the MB problem than suffer in a decrease in PQ!

Jodeci

Before upgrading to v536 could you spend some time closely looking at the image on v528...some pictures would be nice if you can swing it. And then upgrade for a direct comparison to v536. Hopefully it will shed some light on this blocking vs detail reduction issue.

jakeman,

540 is an official release. Panasonic released it to their private service tech download site about a week ago as an official upgrade firmware.

Originally posted by jakeman
Spoke to Panasonic this morning. They have no information regarding v540 and are recommending only installation of v536. According to their internal postings no further upgrades are forthcoming at this time. 540 looks like a testing version as best as I can determine . I'm passing for now pending someone coming up with some great improvement over v536. I continue to suspect Panasonic is doing something to the decoder to reduce blocking while sacrificing some detail but that remains conjecture on my part. In any event I am still very pleased with the unit.

They did provide me with some more info on v536. Reading from an internal email to service centre staff she stated that v536 was designed to improve picture quality by addressing 2 main areas affecting 720p and 1080i over hdmi. Firstly it was to reduce blockiness and secondly to improve the "transition of the image from dark to bright scenes" ( wish I knew what that means.) She couldn't elaborate on edge enhancement or softness issues but the email recommended the upgrade for improved overall performance and picture quality.

Jodeci:

Download the 12 second (http://home.comcast.net/~avs_sango/MBTestScene.zip) clip and burn it to DVD RW media and test the scene using the original firmware. You should be able to see macroblocking of the scene.
-------------------

It sounds like the source is a bit behind.

Sango,

I'd like to burn that clip, however I have no means of copying DVD-R/RW. Any DVD movie suggestions? I test MB with Master & Commander and also The 'Hulk' movie.

Is there anyone that can help me burn the 540 firmware. I have been trying to get a copy on a disc for 2 days. It allows me to download to my computer, than after I unzip the file and the password comes up, then I choose copy this file, and it does nothing. If I double click on the file, it tells me I have a error and windows will not recognize it. Thanks in advance for any help...

If your using Windows XP just drag and drop the unzipped file onto a CD-r or CD-rw disk like you would any file. I assume you got the password for the zip file from the bottom of that download page?

Are you using Roxio or CD-RW? Here is what happened to me:
1. First tried CD-RW using Roxio and the S97 reported "unable to read firmware update" or something like that.
2. Then tried unzipping the update directly to CD-RW. Got an XP error.
2. Then used another computer without Roxio and burned to a CD-R using XP Pro using drag and drop. No problems to report. Not sure which was the problem, but my panny seems happy with 540. Good Luck

Originally posted by LiteUp!
jakeman,

540 is an official release. Panasonic released it to their private service tech download site about a week ago as an official upgrade firmware.

Ok LiteUp . I will call them again tomorrow and speak to a different service person. They were early with v536 but I was told they have received no notification for v540.

I would recommend Nero because it's a popular burning program.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jodeci:

I don't exactly have DVD movie recommendations since I mainly watch anime and can mention anime titles off my head to watch.

LiteUp did test my 12 second clip and some anime stuff which I sent him as reference - In his case he couldn't find any macroblocking. However, in my case I can.

The clips does serve as good references because there is a lot of macroblocking which can appear during them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
jakeman:
Hopefully the news will be consistant with my source who is a Panasonic technician who works in the company.

Hmm,

I am running the 540 Firmware and 480p and 1080i have the same amount of OverScan whereas 720p show more Vertical and Horizontal Detail. Is this a Firmware issue or Scaler Issue? I could go back to the 536 and see if there was a difference....I think? BTW, This is a Panasonic PT-50LC13 w/HDMI using the DVE Anamorphic (WSE) Resolution Test.

720P
http://vhato.dnsalias.com/pix/tv/oc720p.jpg

1080i
http://vhato.dnsalias.com/pix/tv/oc1080i.jpg

480P
http://vhato.dnsalias.com/pix/tv/oc480p.jpg

Hello,

While not cornershots of this pattern there are some 528 16:9 shots to compare with you display at this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=463025&perpage=20&pagenumber=1


The display for those pictures is a Panasonic TC-22LH1.

Paul

Jodeci,

I am on my 2nd s97. My 1st was returned(after a v536 upgrade) because unit occasionally shut off, with or without a disk in the tray, when closing the tray. I think there is a trip/sensor blah blah in there that reacts to the tray being nudged. My 2nd one does this as well but I am keeping it. Both had manufacture dates of sept. 04 and both have firmware v528.

I am happy with v528 for now because I prefer more detail even with a lil more severe MB on the rare occasion,to a slightly softer picture(edge enhancement aside) still with MB tho lessened. The new s97 has no pink issue whatsoever...cant explain that one. My 1st one did and that actually was more distracting to me than the MB.

I like the tray shut-off bug glitch, it burns calories having to turn the player back on occasionally. My knuckles will eventually sport a 6-pack from this effort and my biceps are now huge from the added seconds holding that remote.

I firmly believe that the MB fix's is sacrificing detail, at least thru component inputs. I have no dvi/hdmi to compare. I am also convinced that there is a subtle but noticeable drop in color quality. When I had the Sony 975 side by side for 2 weeks with the Panny, fleshtones of the s97 and colors in general was a huge factor over the Sony. v536 was immediately different to my eyes. I think I do remember slightly better black detail in v536 but I'll sacrifice it in a sec for detail and punch.

As stated, I do think there will eventually be a firmware that gets it ALL together, if not still an amazing player and.....am I the only one who actually likes the blue tray light?

Bladerunner

I love the Tray Light. I have it set to only come on when a remote button is pressed. During a movie it turns it off.

I set my tray light to DIM -- off while playing. While the blue is pretty, I think it too bright for a darkened room, too bright to be beneath the screen, and blue is bad for night vision.

Paul

Paul!! Put the tray light on Auto mode!! =)

auto mode? how?

So should the 540 be implemented or not?

Originally posted by jakeman
Reading from an internal email to service centre staff she stated that v536 was designed to improve picture quality by addressing 2 main areas affecting 720p and 1080i over hdmi.

Only over HDMI? Is this meant to suggest that those using component will see no difference in PQ from the firmware upgrade? That would make sense if they're only fixing issues with the scaler. I have HDMI, but I'm just curious since I thought there were some here using component that have performed the upgrade and said they've noticed changes.

avmem

Zoro:

Page 17 of the S97 manaul. (opps)

bkushner


I would recommend staying with v536 and holding off on v540. I'm with bladerunner on the detail/softness question. I know he is staying with v528 but v536 has enough improvements that it's a worthwhile upgrade despite the possibility of some detail loss(it took me weeks to notice so it is subtle ). If macroblocking was a heartstopper on your display I would go all the way to v540, if not stay at v536 and wait for more analysis or ideally another upgrade.

Ok spoke to service and they have now received notification of v540 with a statement that it is designed to further reduce macroblocking. He also said that it is not possible to reverse the upgrade once installed. No other information on what else it does.

like always its display dependant, andofcourse everyone see's things differently.

I think, 540 does make picture softer, but if you re run your calibration, you should be able to readjust your display fordesired effect.

Page 17 of the manual under "others" tab describes the auto/dim/bright option, bright is default.

Originally posted by zoro
I think, 540 does make picture softer, but if you re run your calibration, you should be able to readjust your display fordesired effect. Anyone concur with this?

I am not seeing any more softness beyond what is actually on the DVD. At first I thought I may have, but on closer inspection, my display somehow had been reset with it's sharpness controls somewhere below where I normally run them. I watched parts of Shark Tale and Cold Mountain to verify.....looks incredible. I have zero MB with my Sanyo Z2. I have another Tube Zenith HDTV I am going to hook it up to and see if I can see some MB there.

Thanks again to Sango,Liteup and Paul for all your work in getting the new
firmware. I was out of the country for two weeks so I did no have a chance to try it yet. I will install it as soon as I can.

You're welcome, rwestley.

Buck,

I'm not noticing any loss of detail with either static or moving images with "normal" material. The DVE high freq patterns still look OK to me.

Paul

Paul,

Same for me...I used the DVE patterns as well. Also, the picture is sharper on my display at 720p HDMI than my XP30 over component at 480p.

Jake,

Yup that's more like the info! =) It is true the upgrade cannot be reverse, unless the firmware has been modified to overrule any version existing on the unit currently.

Ive got the S97 w/ 540 firmware hooked up to the BenQ 8700+ via DVI with DVI-HDMI adapter and the picture quality is great. However, whenever upconversion is used there is severe pixel cropping on the right side of the screen. @ 720p I find there is a black vertical bar between the image and the right side of the screen. @1080i the black bar is still present but much much smaller. @480p the picture aligns perfectly to the entire screen. Any idea why this is happening? Incidentally, when I had the Denon 1910 hooked up (in the shortwhile I had it) the same pixel cropping was present but only when upconversion was used. Is this normal or what could be causing it?

omegastar,

I think this is your display causing this. I have 0 pixel cropping on my Z2 over HDMI at 720p. I checked recently. I also looked at 480p. You might look into going into the service menu on your 8700 and adjusting some parameters.

Unless it's a sample issue with this S97, I have no problem with S97 and cropping or off center with the display. In my case the centering isn't *pixel perfect* but I attribute that more to the display rather than the player.

Paul

I am hoping someone else running the 8700+ and S97 can confirm they have no pixel cropping on the right when using upconversion. Then I can approach BenQ about it.

I have not had a chance to re-calibrate yet after upgrading to v540. For those of you who have, how much of a difference (if any) was there in your adjusted settings compared to the 536 upgrade?

Skarpachi,

Between 536 and 540 I didn't have to change anything. From 528 to 536 I reduced my brightness from +1 to 0 to get perfect BTB. My contrast has always remained at 0, as well as my sharpness at 0. Results may vary with your display and whether or not you are using Component or HDMI. I am using HDMI/DVI at 720p.

Sango

Can you ask your contact to read you the internal email that accompanies the upgrade. It contains more info on what the upgrade does.

Originally posted by avmem
Only over HDMI? Is this meant to suggest that those using component will see no difference in PQ from the firmware upgrade? That would make sense if they're only fixing issues with the scaler. I have HDMI, but I'm just curious since I thought there were some here using component that have performed the upgrade and said they've noticed changes.

avmem

The description 0f v536 contained language to the effect that the upgrade improved overall picture quality and performance so there were likely changes to component as well. However the specific fix it addressed was to hdmi.

omegastar -

I've encountered the same pixel cropping on the right side of my screen, when running 720p through my InFocus 4805 (480p and 1080i are fine).

I thought it was my projector, but others appear to be encountering this same issue with their (different) projectors.

On a separate note, 720p works perfectly on my Samsung HLN467.

jake

He does have the full documentation of what the update does however, he cannot go deeper into the matter. Looks like confidential.

All I know is that it reduces MB more and address other issues in certain situations.

Sango

Yes I was told the same thing about confidentiality. Sounds like there was a warning in the email from central service. Sure would like more info. Why don't they just include a technical commentary like most people do with upgrades? Peculiar to say the least but at least they keep the upgrades coming which is better support than most companies. I did get out of them that there was no description about detail/softness issues and the main description was regarding further reduction of blocking. He did say there were "other things" but he clammed up when pressed. I am going to try again through another avenue later this week.

Originally posted by Speakender
omegastar -

I've encountered the same pixel cropping on the right side of my screen, when running 720p through my InFocus 4805 (480p and 1080i are fine).

I thought it was my projector, but others appear to be encountering this same issue with their (different) projectors.

On a separate note, 720p works perfectly on my Samsung HLN467.

Whats interesting is that im passing a 720 signal into the BenQ which is its native resolution and strangely this is where the cropping is the most severe. Perhaps someone with the same setup as you or I can confirm the cropping exists for them as well.

Jake

The policy is most likely enforced by Panasonic Japan.

I'm actually pushing at Panasonic reguarding the problems indicated in the DVD shootout. Since my contact is aware of the shootout site, he has forwarded the information to the techs to see if something can be done.

Hi Jodeci,

This has happend to me as well. Had the tray open, placed a DVD on tray and hit close. Unit suddenly shut down. I'm still on version 528.

wolfman

Originally posted by jodeci
Upgraded to 540 from 536 using Panny 50DL54 and noticed 2 things when using HDMI set at 720p:



Also, I am returning this unit b/c it occasionally 'turns off' after ejecting a DVD, then closing the tray (without DVD). Not sure if anyone has experienced the same problem (not sure if using a power bar/surge protector will prevent the occasional 'turn off' problem). Still have ~2 days under return policy.

Wolfmanjack210,

Read the post from TonyS titled, "Anyone Else's DVD-S97 Randomly Shutting Off When Closing Tray" where other members are experiencing the same problem.

Guys, I know I have been tooting the v528 firmware. I dont want this perceived as me being unappreciative of the excellent work Paul, Liteup, Sango and all the others are doing. I said before, I would still be running my Tosh sd5700 if not for these guys.....

I am just sitting tight a little longer on the old 528 while I can have the original while these firmwares iron out. I do have firmware disks 536/540, thanks to you guys, waiting in the wings.

The clips where I have compared color fleshtones specificly are in "Gladiator" when Connie Nielson is in the coach on the way to the battle in Germania as well as in the arena when Maximus shows his identity to after the battle of Carthage. Her cheeks and face just showed more natural blushing pink and levels of skin in v528...I thought....In the new 5th Element collector...I thought all properly lit reference scenes displayed noticably better fleshtone in v528.

I am probably the only one running thru component and maybe the firmware differences are more profound in that domain.

That tray shutoff anomaly is really building steam. Curious about that one but not concerned enuff to do another switch at all. I am tempted to buy another just to have it in storage in case of the flu. Poo, I would have paid an extra 150 u.s.d. for this player if I had to.

Bladerunner

Bladerunner:

Have you tried my 12 second clip to see MB?

Sango, I think I tried and failed but dont remember why it did not load. I'll scroll back in this thread and try again.

Bladerunner

Sango, I did save that to my pc....Can I view it here or do I have to burn it play it at the dvd player?

Bladerunner

ps: when is a "Bladerunner" remastered coming?

The clip is to be used in a DVD player (it's a VOB). You can view it on the PC but you won't see any MB, but it will give you an idea what it's suppose to be like without MB if you do see it.

Sango, or anyone who knows.....Why does Panasonic decide NOT to stamp the s97, or the other legends, with the DCDI logo?

Bladerunner

It's been talked about before but not sure which one is the definite answer.

- Could be up to the manufacturer if they want to put the logo on.
- Manufactuer may have to pay like a licensing fee to put the logo on.

Panasonic did stamp a DCDi logo on the S97 box thou (not sure why, they should of put one on the unit in that case).

Sango,

I was thinking licenseing but the I would think the increase in sales based on share perceptions at seeing the logo on the front would make it worth it unless it is considered a low volume specialty unit. I always wondered especially since back in the day when i went inside my "A" serial #'d rp-62 to confirm that the chip was in there. $40 bucks from a guy I hired. Thats a good purchase.

Bladerunner

From what I understand the licensing fee is pretty substantial. Samsung actually released a few HLP 63 series displays with "DCDi by Faroudja" on the bezel but the vast majority do not have the logo - supposedly b/c Samsung didn't feel like paying up for the licensing fee.

At the end of the day, I'm guessing that most people who know what Faroudja and DCDi even are, know whether or not a particular player has it or not.

I've upgraded to 540 with no problems. Thanks to all who have helped to make this available.

There is considerable less MB on this version than 528 and 536 when tested on my 34hfx84 direct view CRT.

Excellent news! Thanks lorenzow....this is the kind of input I am looking for.

Updated my UK multi-region player to 540 with no problems - although it didnt fix my Tosh Mt8 not working :(

re Faroudja... the panasonic.co.uk site doesnt even mention it once. The only place its mentioned is on a strip of card stuck to the top of the player.

Most people looking in the UK might just assume its an overly-expensive player for no good reason - afterall its not even a universal player like the Pioneers.

I bought one only because its the most affordable HDMI player available in the UK - shame it dont work with my PJ - oh well.

So a question - does the US model use strange modes like 750p like the UK model?

Finally, is DCDi (in the S97) used only for upscaling.. or is it also used in generating the progressive scan output? ie since HDMI doesnt work did I waste my money - esp. as the PJ has DCDi already.

The R1 units is capable of playing PAL (and display) (verified by region check), but the manuals and stuff for the R1s mention it's not supported.

Technically it can play a PAL R1 disc (which dosen't exist) but there is ways around that.

Originally posted by lorenzow
I've upgraded to 540 with no problems. Thanks to all who have helped to make this available.

There is considerable less MB on this version than 528 and 536 when tested on my 34hfx84 direct view CRT.

lorenzow, how did you determine there is less MB on 540? I have a new S97 coming that I'm hoping has 528 or 536 on it so I can compare it with the one I'm using now running 540.

omegastar,

been trying to get ahold of you. There are a few of us with the 8700+ and the S97. I think we are in the same boat. I did notice that the image seems to be a little more centered after the 540 upgrade. Cropping more even on both sides. I have been in contact with BenQ about some problems I have found with the packet of information that gets passed from the projector back to the S97 over DVI-HDMI. These problems are why you will see the player think it is in 576p instead of 720p. Not sure if component has these same kind of problems. I'm wondering if one of the problems causes our croping issue. PM me if you want more info.