I wish I would have not upgraded to 540.
After the upgrade I noticed a shift in the pixels on the top and the side. I am running a Infocus SP5000 and had originally noticed a slight side shift with 536 but compensated by moving the images going through the component imput via the projector menu. This time it was top and side, and could not get rid of it the same way. I just spent the afternoon adjusting the mount for my projector to get acceptable picture, but still had to use a little keystone and there is a little overscan onto my screens frame (thank god for felt covered frames). I hope the next firmware corrects this, since there is no way to go back to 536.

hmmm....more reasons to hold off v540

The image looked fine to me actually and I tested HDMI for the first time yesturday with 540.

I just recently picked up a S97S, newer build with the 536 firmware. Just wanted to wait till more people give feedback on the 540 before I flash.

Hello,
I live in Finland, PAL world.

I had 536 FW running just fine.
BUT after 540 upgrade the image has a flaw in right side. It is hard to describe, but I try to draw it. I might get a picture with my camera if necessary.

There is a pixel or two SHIFT in the picture near the right side. The pixel shift is 20-30 pixels wide and they are shifted downwards. Like this:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbaaaa
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccbbbbb
ddddddddddddddddddddddddddcccccc

This happens in the whole picture. But please note:
- using PAL discs
- using HDMI in 720p (750p) to panasonic ae700 projector
- the problem is NOT appearing in 1080i(1125i) or 576p(625p) picture modes

I think that it has something to do with the previously mentioned pixel cropping 'fix'. I think it this way:
- 540 has a fix for pixel cropping
- as I read the image was shifted up
- now the timing for PAL and NTSC is different also in horizontal way (not only vertical (50 or 60 Hz)
- NTSC draws the horizontal line faster
- the fix was tested in NTSC, now leaving those pixels in right not to be shifted in PAL, because of the slower draw in pal (in the same amount of time, PAL gets more pixels than NTSC)

Now, I'm stuck using 1080i or 576p. I believe I can't go back to 536 by myself. Could it be done in the service of panasonic?

But really, Snago and others, please inform the panasonic about this. They might do a fix for the 540 in PAL. You know the channels, and this is such matter NOT to try to explain in phone to some technical support. I have read this thread and the tech support is hopless, I have to say. So, only way to inform this is Sango and the 'brothers' :)

Hello,

I live in France (PAL) and i have the same problem as begu78.

After 540 upgrade, there are 2 pixels shift in the right side (wide 20-30 pixels) :(

I use the S97 with the Hitachi PJ-TX100 projector (HDMI-DVI) and this problem appears only in 720p mode.

So it seems the bug is confirmed then, and so we go for praying a fix.

Originally posted by tburton
lorenzow, how did you determine there is less MB on 540? I have a new S97 coming that I'm hoping has 528 or 536 on it so I can compare it with the one I'm using now running 540.

My tests aren't as scientific as others' in this forum. Some might argue (convincingly) I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. :)

I first noticed (what I've assumed to be) the MB problem when I purchased the s97s with the 528 firmware and hooked it up to my 34hfx84. As I reported earlier in this thread, when watching the credits on "The Lady Killers", white lettering scrolls up the screen and 'light' appears to shine through the lettering. With the s97s in 1080i or 720p mode, the beams of light just produced navy and black splotches. The 540 firmware has reduced this effect considerably.

begu78 and larny.

I am going to notify service personnel here. They have been responsive to problems before and will at the least notify service higher up the chain. I doubt you can go back to v536 now so you will have to wait for the next upgrade. Or if you can bring the unit back to the store for a substitute.
;)

begu/larny/jakeman,

Be aware that this is something particular to your display. I have 0 pixel cropping (top bottom or sides) on my display (Sanyo Z2, 720p native). I will take some pictures soon with the patterns from AVIA to prove it. I will do it in 480p, 720p, and 1080i (via HDMI).

Paul, what do you see?

Anyone with a Samsung DLP upgraded to v540? Any problems or improvements?

I have experience upgrading my denon 2910 to -7 firmware and then downgrading to-4 for region free whe I needed..no ill effect?

i to have a pal s97 and after updrading it to 540 noticed the problem with pixel shift on 720p but it seemed to come and go depending on what movie i was watching

jason

My Sanyo Z3 with the s97 v540 firmware, via HDMI Y-Cb-Cr @ 4:4:4, shows the same wonderful picture as before but with much less macroblocking - sometimes the pink splotching seems worse than before, sometimes it seems much better; it all depends on the DVD, so it's a toss up there. No pixel cropping, even when playing a PAL DVD (PAL side of Microsoft DVD Test Annex 3.0). The s97 upconverts to 720p beautifully. My partner noticed a greater color gaumut with the 540 update - I see it now after having it pointed out to me - It's MUCH more "Technicolor-like." Layer change is now almost invisible - better than 528 or 536!!!!! Also, slightly less edge enhancement @ 720p - almost none, in fact.

I sure love this player and projector combo! Although it's not Hi-Vision, I consider the picture it displays to be Extended Definition (EDTV) in all respects. Actually, the picture it puts out has the SAME specs as the Philips HDS-NA High Definition System - For North America they tried to get approved here. Typical Philips...

One thing to those using the s97's "Picture" adjustment modes - in any mode but "normal" the s97 shows a slight reduction in luma resolution - a 'blurring' if you will - except for the odd, badly mastered, DVD, I keep the player in "Normal" picture mode all the time.

One thing I forgot:

LiteUp! in your 540 info on the first page of this thread, you state that the 2-2 "Auto-2" film cadence is only used for European films - not so, a few American DVD's have it too - Around The World In 80 Days, The King And I (50's version), and Oklahoma!. All were mastered from the 30-fps Todd-AO 65mm Negative and are flagged and stored on the DVD's as Progressive Segmented Frame with 2-2 pulldown. "...80 days" DVD in particular looks spectacular and even has the original directional dialogue and original 3-channel surround (EX encoded)!

BTW, the 30fps DVD of "...80 Days" really makes me yearn for filmakers to abandon 24fps - it has too low of a sampling rate - 30fps is MUCH more involving and beautiful to look at - with fewer strobing artifacts and limitations on camera panning speeds, etc... Mike Todd knew this and that's why he selected 30fps for Todd-AO. It simply looks and IS better than 24fps.

Disclord.

Thanks for the informative posts> I'm going to check if using normal rather than picture settings solves the softness look.

well i definatley have some sort of picture problem but its only on pal discs at 720p (750p) but its perfect with ntsc material

jason

Disclord...ditto...I keep mine in Normal mode as well.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
begu/larny/jakeman,

Be aware that this is something particular to your display. I have 0 pixel cropping (top bottom or sides) on my display (Sanyo Z2, 720p native). I will take some pictures soon with the patterns from AVIA to prove it. I will do it in 480p, 720p, and 1080i (via HDMI).

Paul, what do you see?
Please note: it is not cropping. It is hard to describe.
It is about 30 pixel wide and whole picture height area that is shifted downwards in the right side of the picture.

Think in this way:
- normally picture is 1280 x 720
- now it is 1250 x 720 pixels in proper place (starting from the left)
- and 30 x 720 pixels shifted 2 pixels shifted downwards (from the right)
- now sum up these and it is what I see

Maybe I try to take som picture of it. And note: it is not exactly 30 pixel wide, but approxemately.

mine is like the last two inches of picture on the right have dropped by about two pixels

jason

Originally posted by bojangling
Anyone with a Samsung DLP upgraded to v540? Any problems or improvements?

Bojangling,

I have a Sammy 5663 and S97. I upgraded from 528 to 536 a few weeks ago, and just last night from 536 to 540. I haven't seen any problems with MB and the picture looks incredible.

Bojangling,

I have a Sammy HLP 5063 & have upgraded to the 540. The picture looks great!

I have a Sharp XV-Z2000 with the S97 536 and the PQ is awesome! I need to run some AVIA tests prior to going to 540 so I can make more scientific comments.

Great, thanks Jimsiff and Deessel.

Bojangling,

I too have the Sammy HLP5063 and am very pleased with v540 so far (I am using HDMI at 720p). It has definitely reduced the MB which was a major issue for me. Now I'm just trying to figure out if I should go with "normal" picture mode or "user" settings based on what I just read. I'm probably going to stick with "user" settings so I can manually adjust contrast, color, sharpness, etc. With regards to the "pixel cropping" issues previously mentioned with v540, I have not experienced such problems as of yet.

Originally posted by Skarpachi
Bojangling,

I too have the Sammy HLP5063 and am very pleased with v540 so far (I am using HDMI at 720p). It has definitely reduced the MB which was a major issue for me. Now I'm just trying to figure out if I should go with "normal" picture mode or "user" settings based on what I just read. I'm probably going to stick with "user" settings so I can manually adjust contrast, color, sharpness, etc. With regards to the "pixel cropping" issues previously mentioned with v540, I have not experienced such problems as of yet.

Appreciate it. I was actually just thinking about switching to "Normal" as well. I don't currently use any of the dvd controls (contrast, color, etc) so I am going to give "normal" a try, especially if I am adding "blurriness" as stated above.

Originally posted by bojangling
Appreciate it. I was actually just thinking about switching to "Normal" as well. I don't currently use any of the dvd controls (contrast, color, etc) so I am going to give "normal" a try, especially if I am adding "blurriness" as stated above.

What are your DLP settings for color, contrast, sharpness, etc.?

Not sure of the top of my head....have to let you know later.

Normal mode appears to be the exact equivalent of User Mode (all parameter set to 0) only if the TV type is set to "Standard (Direct TV)". Using any other TV type will alter either Brightness, Contrast, sharpness or any combination of relative to the default User setting (haven't checked color yet).

Brightness and Contrast changes due to the "TV Type" selection are outlined in the original Braindump post so I'll stick to changes in Sharpness which appears to be the issue with many recent recent posts.

Comparing the Sharpness levels between the default "User" settings and "Normal mode" there can be differences. These differences are dependant on which "TV Type" is chosen in the setup menu for which will alter the image when in "Normal mode" . For example:

If using TV Type "Standard (Direct view TV)", "Projection TV", or "Plasma TV" setting, the sharpness appears unchanged. However, using either "CRT Projector", or "LCD/Projector" will raise the sharpness level equivalent to increasing sharpness manually approx. 3 steps.

It could be that the "added blurriness" seen in "User mode" when compared to "Normal" mode is, conversely, due to "Normal modes" added sharpness or contrast due to the TV type selection. When using the TV Type "Standard (Direct View TV)" I can perceived no changes in PQ when comparing "user mode" defaults setting to "Normal mode".

I use component outputs only so this may or may not change when using Hdmi.

Thank you very much for that observation Hugh2! I think this may clear up a lot of confusion about different firmware's sharpness. It is likely that many people are re-testing with different settings than before their upgrade, since the upgrade sends the player back to factory defaults and forces them to change things upon re-testing.

Hi, is it so that the NTSC is ok with no pixel shif error?
I have attached an simmulated picture of the problem. I will try to take real screen capture soon.

And about the MB, it is reduced in 540 compared to 536. There is that dark 'pinky' color as before but it does not contain moving blocks anymore (or it is very minimal)

About the attached image, it is small, but You can detect the shifted down pixel area in the right side of the picture.

Originally posted by begu78
Hi, is it so that the NTSC is ok with no pixel shif error?
I have attached an simmulated picture of the problem. I will try to take real screen capture soon.

And about the MB, it is reduced in 540 compared to 536. There is that dark 'pinky' color as before but it does not contain moving blocks anymore (or it is very minimal)

About the attached image, it is small, but You can detect the shifted down pixel area in the right side of the picture.
I updated mine with the 540 firmware this morning and have no pixel shift (NTSC) using HDMI/720P. Hope Panasonic fixes it soon for you guys using PAL :( .

Originally posted by LiteUp!
Thank you very much for that observation Hugh2! I think this may clear up a lot of confusion about different firmware's sharpness. It is likely that many people are re-testing with different settings than before their upgrade, since the upgrade sends the player back to factory defaults and forces them to change things upon re-testing.

My thoughts exactly.

Originally posted by Fiz
I updated mine with the 540 firmware this morning and have no pixel shift (NTSC) using HDMI/720P. Hope Panasonic fixes it soon for you guys using PAL :( .
Yes, me too.
But there might be a tricky thing to do. If someone could trick the player to think, that the 536 is newer than 540, the player would flash it. I mean, the 536 should be modified to look newer than 540.

But I can't do it. Maybe someone knows. Any programmers? Or maybe the panasonic could make the 536 to 'force' update the player.

begu78,

I have loaded the 536 and 540 firmware into my Hex Editor, and I think I see how they stamp the images with the revision number (where the check is). I could try removing that check (or changing the 536 image to 541 or something like that). However, if I don't get it right the first time, it would be a 300.00 mistake potentially. I wouldn't mind it so much if this was a 100.00 player....but throwing away 300.00 at a time can get kind of nasty. Who wants to be the guinea pig? LOL....

Originally posted by LiteUp!
begu78,

I have loaded the 536 and 540 firmware into my Hex Editor, and I think I see how they stamp the images with the revision number (where the check is). I could try removing that check (or changing the 536 image to 541 or something like that). However, if I don't get it right the first time, it would be a 300.00 mistake potentially. I wouldn't mind it so much if this was a 100.00 player....but throwing away 300.00 at a time can get kind of nasty. Who wants to be the guinea pig? LOL....
Actually, didn't I read somewhere along this thread that the updates are for other models besides the S97? Perhaps one of them is much cheaper and it could be tested to at least see if it accepts an update at all.

Thanks for that insight Hugh2. I know my eyes weren't deceiving me so your explanation makes sense.

I don't really think it updated the firmware on that player. I tried the 536 update on my F85 and it read the disc and started but only ended up resetting the unit to factory defaults (no firmware update, although it seemed like it did). I think the same thing happened to that guy's F87 that you are talking about. I don't think he checked the firmware rev. before putting the disc in.

Anyway...I have some ideas....I wil play around with this a bit.

begu78 that is exactly the problem that i have but only playing pal discs !! ntsc is ok

jason

Anybody know how to check the firmware on an s35 and a dmr-e80?

You should be able to do it this way:

Press and hold, on the player, the buttons "PAUSE" + "OPEN" and press the "7" button on the remote. The full version will be displayed on the fluorescent display.

Thanks Liteup;)

Any idea when S97s w/540 will start showing up at dealers, if at all?

begu78

I sent my firmware to a place to be modified and it's still being work on at the current moment.
----------------------------------------
I happen to find an explanation why the updates doesn't affect units which have been modified to Region Free. Most likely the region is resides somewhere else, so when it's updating, there is no effect and regino free remains.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
begu78,

I have loaded the 536 and 540 firmware into my Hex Editor, and I think I see how they stamp the images with the revision number (where the check is). I could try removing that check (or changing the 536 image to 541 or something like that). However, if I don't get it right the first time, it would be a 300.00 mistake potentially. I wouldn't mind it so much if this was a 100.00 player....but throwing away 300.00 at a time can get kind of nasty. Who wants to be the guinea pig? LOL....


This is what you do....

Go to a dealer that has this unit and that has sales people that won't jump on your back as soon as you walk in.

Put your test disc in the floor model 97S and flash it.

See if it works.

Repeat as necessary.;)

Originally posted by jcc
This is what you do....

Go to a dealer that has this unit and that has sales people that won't jump on your back as soon as you walk in.

Put your test disc in the floor model 97S and flash it.

See if it works.

Repeat as necessary.;)


^^LOVE IT!!!!!!!!:D ^^

Another unethical idea. Buy a new unit and flash it. Return it to the store the next day. If it works great, if not you returned a defective unit.

Okay guys, I now have two S97's. One with 536 and one with 540. I want to do a comparison between the two as I need to return one of them. I read several threads of what to look for, but I'm wondering if someone can tell me something quick and easy to look for so I don't have to spend all day trying to detect the difference. I have Video Essentials if that's the best, or I have some DVD's, so I can just scroll to the credits, if that's the easiest. Thanks

I never heard of a 538! =)

Originally posted by Sango
I never heard of a 538! =)

OOOps 536! Thanks, Sango

Testing for difference. Hmm it's hard to say since it varies from user to user.

I do have a 12 second VOB clip which can be burned to DVD+-RW media to see if you can spot any MB.

Originally posted by Sango
Testing for difference. Hmm it's hard to say since it varies from user to user.

I do have a 12 second VOB clip which can be burned to DVD+-RW media to see if you can spot any MB.

Cool, can you provide me a link?

Here (http://home.comcast.net/~avs_sango/MBTestScene.zip) it is.

Does anyone know if the new S77's will have firmware 536 or 540?

Rob

can anyone see the diff between 528 and 538

thanks, rp

I just received this response today to my case number from Panasonic in the US.It is amazing. Without the help of Liteup, Sango, and Paul we would still be stuck with the old firmware. Thanks again.

Dear MR
Panasonic Case # 20721990
Thank you for contacting Panasonic. We apologize for any inconvenience
this may have caused you but the firmware you are looking for is not yet
available in the US.

We hope this information is helpful to you.

Thank You,
Panasonic Consumer Support

I have keep this letter to support my case to extend the warranty if there
are any newer firmware updates or if I have any other problems. I wonder if there will ever be an update released in the US or if Panasonic is still working on a newer version past 540. Maybe Sango and others could check.

Originally posted by tburton
Okay guys, I now have two S97's. One with 536 and one with 540. I want to do a comparison between the two as I need to return one of them. I read several threads of what to look for, but I'm wondering if someone can tell me something quick and easy to look for so I don't have to spend all day trying to detect the difference. I have Video Essentials if that's the best, or I have some DVD's, so I can just scroll to the credits, if that's the easiest. Thanks


tburton when you mention that you have a player with firmware 540, what you mean is that you bought a player with 540 installed already. Could you tell what is the build date?

tburtron. I have been one of the holdouts for v540. Can you do this simple test. 1. Set settings to default mode for both players ie. standard settings in normal mode. Check visually without altering any setting on display in hdmi and see if you notice any differences in the image, the restaurant montage in DVE for example, paying attention to detail in the subjects hair, clothes and the waiter's suit. Repeat in 480p, 720p and 1080i. Please look for any differences in black levels, colours, "softness" , cropping of edges etc. 2. Set settings at -1 contrast and +1 brightness in your display mode and repeat above. If you have DVE, and the time, also look at other test patterns for differences. If you don't have DVE then check on any popular dvd for an extreme closeup of an actor's face. For example Carradine's face in Kill Bill vol.2 has alot of detail. Look for subtle changes if any in wrinkles, beard, pores etc.

I spoke to Panasonic service yesterday who said that the main difference between 536 and 540 was further reduction of blocking and was unaware of any other issues such as pixel movement or softness. With respect to problems with PAL discs in 540 he suggested a communication from European service to Japan would get better attention.

rwestley. I've been told consistently that their objective is to completely eliminate the blocking so it's probable we can expect another version particularly in light of the PAL problems. That could be why they have been so secretive about releasing information about these updates.

FoolsGold,

Check the first post of this thread. It's there now. The link was mistakenly removed during an edit.

Paul

That could be why they have been so secretive about releasing information about these updates.
Panasonic has always been "secretive" about firmware updates. They have never made them publically available. But they are very good about fixing issues with updates. I have updated my RP91's numerous times.

I got the 97 last night and am very impressed with it. For reference, I also have two RP91's and an RP82. I found that User mode got my closer to the image of the RP82. Mine is a Dec. 2004 and came with firmware 536. I used it for a while then updated to 540. I saw no loss of sharpness or detail, I do still see macroblocking in some scenes though. Although the 97's macroblocking is very minor and is worlds better than the Zenith 318 that I had. So far I really like. If they can completely fix the macroblocking I'll think it's better than the 82. Right now they're about even in my book. I will say that I have not yet calibrated with DVE, so I'm hoping it can get a little bit better.

I'm going to give the 91 the nod over the 97 for non-anamaphoric scaling. What I love about the 91 is that you can use it's high sharpness and vertical sharpness settings when using it's scaling and it really makes a difference for non-anamphoric titles. Too bad the 97 didn't have it. So those are my initial non-scientific thoughts. Overall, I really like the 97 so far.

Originally posted by jakeman
tburtron. I have been one of the holdouts for v540. Can you do this simple test. 1. Set settings to default mode for both players ie. standard settings in normal mode. Check visually without altering any setting on display in hdmi and see if you notice any differences in the image, the restaurant montage in DVE for example, paying attention to detail in the subjects hair, clothes and the waiter's suit. Repeat in 480p, 720p and 1080i. Please look for any differences in black levels, colours, "softness" , cropping of edges etc. 2. Set settings at -1 contrast and +1 brightness in your display mode and repeat above. If you have DVE, and the time, also look at other test patterns for differences. If you don't have DVE then check on any popular dvd for an extreme closeup of an actor's face. For example Carradine's face in Kill Bill vol.2 has alot of detail. Look for subtle changes if any in wrinkles, beard, pores etc.



Jakeman: This is EXACTLY the kind of info I was looking for, thanks! Tonight I'm going to perform the review and I'll post results tomorrow. I'll try and get some JPG's of any significant differences between 536 and 540 and post here. btw, someone asked if one of the S97's i bought came with 540. It did not. It came with 528 and was a Sept/04 build. I flashed it to 540. The other player I just rec'd has a Jan/05 build and has 536. This will be a good test to determine if 540 is really any better than 536.

I'm in the same boat with begu78. I'm from Finland also and have the same pixel problems. My pj is Sanyo Z3 and its hooked to S97 via HDMI. FW is 540.

JP

I have a specific request and hope someone here has the right equipment combination to help.
I've angsted over which of these DVD players to get with my BB Reward bucks and have settled on the S97. (I'm pretty sure my sales guy can procure one from Magnolia and sell it to me via BB, my local BB is a hybrid BB/Magnolia) So does anyone here have a Sony XS955 set hooked to the S97 via HDMI with firmware 540? If so are you pleased with this combination? ANY help is much appreciated!!! TIA!

We had fiz here and I did request to chip in for combo settings, input here! but so far no luck, may be he will?

I have the S97 with 536 upgrade. I am using a Panasonic Plasma and have a serious issue with loss of shadow detail. IT is really bothering the heck out of me. The best verbal description I can say is that in darker scenes, some background (especially walls etc) appears to shift colors, like it doesn't know what color to stay. I also see it sometimes in the shadow of someone's face (noticed when watching 24 DVD) where there is a serious loss of detail. Anyone know what this is called or how it can be fixed or minimized. I would greatly appreciate anyone who could help. I tried reading the posts in this thread but it is OVERWHELMING! Thanks again in advance!

Can you be more specific about which dvds you are seeing loss of shadow detail? It could be some macroblocking or perhaps settings on your plasma. I have an lg plasma which produces stunning images but getting the settings aligned with the player can be challenging. I would suggest buying a DVE calibration dvd to improve your settings and if you're really finicky ( like me ) hire an ISF pro to bring out maximum performance.

Originally posted by joe221
I have a specific request and hope someone here has the right equipment combination to help.
I've angsted over which of these DVD players to get with my BB Reward bucks and have settled on the S97. (I'm pretty sure my sales guy can procure one from Magnolia and sell it to me via BB, my local BB is a hybrid BB/Magnolia) So does anyone here have a Sony XS955 set hooked to the S97 via HDMI with firmware 540? If so are you pleased with this combination? ANY help is much appreciated!!! TIA!
I have the exact setup, if there is anything particular you would like to know shoot me an e-mail: devin.mikes@gmail.com . I am very happy with the combination, I configured with DVE and it passes all tests and looks leagues better than the Samsung HD841 it replaced.

How do I get the firmware number from my S97 player? I don't see an "open" button on my remote.....so how can I use Pause + Open and press 7?

That's becuase PAUSE+OPEN is to be performed on the unit itself, not the remote.

Mav,

The 'pause' and 'open' commands are from the s97's front panel. After those two buttons are presssed and held, then you must key in the '7' from the remote.

Dick G

Originally posted by ritewinger
I have the S97 with 536 upgrade. I am using a Panasonic Plasma and have a serious issue with loss of shadow detail. IT is really bothering the heck out of me. The best verbal description I can say is that in darker scenes, some background (especially walls etc) appears to shift colors, like it doesn't know what color to stay. I also see it sometimes in the shadow of someone's face (noticed when watching 24 DVD) where there is a serious loss of detail. Anyone know what this is called or how it can be fixed or minimized. I would greatly appreciate anyone who could help. I tried reading the posts in this thread but it is OVERWHELMING! Thanks again in advance!

If you connected S97 to your display via HDMI cable, you should set standard or enhanced mode in both S97 and your display to same setting. If you set one to standard and another to enhanced mode, then you see loss of shadow detail.

Originally posted by Fiz
I have the exact setup, if there is anything particular you would like to know shoot me an e-mail: devin.mikes@gmail.com . I am very happy with the combination, I configured with DVE and it passes all tests and looks leagues better than the Samsung HD841 it replaced.

Thanks for the reply Fiz. I just wanted to know if anyone out ther had this set up and was happy. Sounds like you are. I just wanted to get a handle on getting this done. Sounds like a go if I can get the S97 from BB/Magnolia. Thanks again!!

Originally posted by Sango
begu78

I sent my firmware to a place to be modified and it's still being work on at the current moment.

Thanks very much. What do You mean by being modified?
Is it a real fix for PAL discs or a 'trick' to make a previous 536 firmware to be force flashed?

Originally posted by LiteUp!
begu78,

I have loaded the 536 and 540 firmware into my Hex Editor, and I think I see how they stamp the images with the revision number (where the check is). I could try removing that check (or changing the 536 image to 541 or something like that)...
Nice, this would be ubelievable, if it would work. Well, I have no programming skills, but that sounds quite easy, if there are no other checks etc. Sound promising indeed.

If there is going to be any way (a real fix for 540 or force flash the 536 back) to make the PAL bug go away, it would be wery awesome. I, and all PAL users would be very happy. And it would be hard to thank You enough! Let's hope the best.

note: the 540 really is good version. The MB are almost gone forewer (there is very little, but still block, they are not jumping around). Much better than in 536.
So the 540 would be a nice thing to keep, well that means the panasonic should fix the PAL bug in 540, which might be too much to hope. But I'm positive, that maybe some day :)

begu78:

What I mean is removing the version checks(should be version overrule) so the unit will give the update screen. Also I'm seeing if the firmware can be made with region free macrovision free capabilities.

Sango

Fantastic, way to go sango

Originally posted by ritewinger
I have the S97 with 536 upgrade. I am using a Panasonic Plasma and have a serious issue with loss of shadow detail. IT is really bothering the heck out of me. The best verbal description I can say is that in darker scenes, some background (especially walls etc) appears to shift colors, like it doesn't know what color to stay. I also see it sometimes in the shadow of someone's face (noticed when watching 24 DVD) where there is a serious loss of detail. Anyone know what this is called or how it can be fixed or minimized. I would greatly appreciate anyone who could help. I tried reading the posts in this thread but it is OVERWHELMING! Thanks again in advance!

Which plasma? I have my S97 connected to a 42phd7uy through HDMI.
Absolutely amazing picture.

Sango, I know this is too much to ask but it would be great if someone could modify the firmware to upscale through component outputs. HDCP is a pain.

I really don't think it would be possible through firmware it is probably set in the chip. Good luck in trying to make the unit region and macrovision free.

What are the benefits of having it macrovision free?

What is the easiest way to check the firmware version of the S97?

Jrock65 The answer is a few post up on this page. Hit Pause & Open on
the Unit at the same time and than hit 7 on the remote.

Originally posted by jakeman
tburtron. I have been one of the holdouts for v540. Can you do this simple test. 1. Set settings to default mode for both players ie. standard settings in normal mode. Check visually without altering any setting on display in hdmi and see if you notice any differences in the image, the restaurant montage in DVE for example, paying attention to detail in the subjects hair, clothes and the waiter's suit. Repeat in 480p, 720p and 1080i. Please look for any differences in black levels, colours, "softness" , cropping of edges etc. 2. Set settings at -1 contrast and +1 brightness in your display mode and repeat above. If you have DVE, and the time, also look at other test patterns for differences. If you don't have DVE then check on any popular dvd for an extreme closeup of an actor's face. For example Carradine's face in Kill Bill vol.2 has alot of detail. Look for subtle changes if any in wrinkles, beard, pores etc.

I spoke to Panasonic service yesterday who said that the main difference between 536 and 540 was further reduction of blocking and was unaware of any other issues such as pixel movement or softness. With respect to problems with PAL discs in 540 he suggested a communication from European service to Japan would get better attention.

rwestley. I've been told consistently that their objective is to completely eliminate the blocking so it's probable we can expect another version particularly in light of the PAL problems. That could be why they have been so secretive about releasing information about these updates.

Last night I did a comparison of two S97's one with 536 and one with 540. I wish I had two of the same televisions side by side - that would make for some real detail comparisons between the two, but I didn't, so what I did was first calibrate my set using Video Essentials. Then using the 536, I played a movie and took note of things I could see using all formats - 480p, 720p and 1080i. The one distinct thing I noticed between the two players is the black levels are more apparent on 536 than 540. Close up detail shots of people, buildings, etc were virtually the same - color, sharpness, etc. I saw no pixelization between the two units. The other thing I noticed on 536 was some ghosting on the credits at the end of the movie. Though still visible on 540, it was improved. Another thing I noticed was on the 540 player, one time when I was swapping DVD's the unit powered off after the door closed. It only happened one time and I could not duplicate it. I tried a dozen or so times on the 536 player and could not get it to power off after inserting a DVD. I believe others have reported this problem. Do we know if this is only happening on 540 players?

My conclusion: I think 540 is better than 536. For me the black level improvement was the most notable.

I just did the 540 firmware update and holy cow! What a difference! I'm so happy right now :D. I'm using a Toshiba HF2684 HD. Before (with 528) I was seeing a lot of macroblocking. I managed to get the least amount of macroblocking when using RGB colour space (instead of YCbCr 4:4:4) but there was still a lot of MB. With this new update there is still some MB with YCbCr, but absolutely NONE with RGB! I was using Star Wars: A New Hope as a test piece. The very beginning with the text scroll, the background space has a tendancy to be very "busy" with macroblocking....but not anymore.

EDIT: I just tried Training Day and at the beginning of the movie there is some macroblocking. So it's not gone completely with the update but it is reduced. I didn't notice any PQ loss like some of you guys though.

tburton,

I've had the experience of the unit powering off when swapping DVD's on all firmware versions, 528, 536, and 540. This can be duplicated sometimes when you give the tray a 'nudge' or slight 'push' and then press the button to close the tray. However, I don't believe it's firmware related but more mechanism/assembly-related with regards to the DVD tray...just my opinion.

jodeci

Originally posted by tohoho
If you connected S97 to your display via HDMI cable, you should set standard or enhanced mode in both S97 and your display to same setting. If you set one to standard and another to enhanced mode, then you see loss of shadow detail.

Tohoho

Do you mean RGB on a HDMI->DVI connection? If so, I don't think I can alter the RGB setting on my Panny PW6, my working assumption is that Normal on RGB DVI is Video colourspace and that the Enhanced is PC colourspace - I have it set to Normal [Video] as this is what my PW6 will be expecting

Gstdt

Originally posted by rwestley
Sango, I know this is too much to ask but it would be great if someone could modify the firmware to upscale through component outputs. HDCP is a pain.

I really don't think it would be possible through firmware it is probably set in the chip. Good luck in trying to make the unit region and macrovision free.

+1, it woulb be fantastic to upscale through components, for those without dvi hdmi input, for example.

Originally posted by tburton
?

My conclusion: I think 540 is better than 536. For me the black level improvement was the most notable.

Thanks for the great work tburton. I am going to install v540 tonight. :p

tburton,

Just to make sure I'm understanding your post correctly - do you think black level details are "better" with 536 or 540? It sounds like you prefer 536 in this regard. So the main benefit of 540 would be the reduced MB I'm assuming?

Thanks for the detailed comparison.

Eric

Originally posted by EricScott
tburton,

Just to make sure I'm understanding your post correctly - do you think black level details are "better" with 536 or 540? It sounds like you prefer 536 in this regard. So the main benefit of 540 would be the reduced MB I'm assuming?

Thanks for the detailed comparison.

Eric

ericscott: I noticed black level improvement with the 540 player. Sorry for the confusion.

Oh. Ok. Makes more sense then. I was wondering why you preferred 540 over 536 if you thought 536 had better blacks.

Thanks.

Originally posted by gstdt
Tohoho

Do you mean RGB on a HDMI->DVI connection? If so, I don't think I can alter the RGB setting on my Panny PW6, my working assumption is that Normal on RGB DVI is Video colourspace and that the Enhanced is PC colourspace - I have it set to Normal [Video] as this is what my PW6 will be expecting

Gstdt

No, I mean YCbCr on HDMI-HDMI connection. In my case, if S97 is set to enhanced mode and Sanyo Z3 projector is set to normal mode, then I see loss of shadow detail.

Originally posted by tohoho
No, I mean YCbCr on HDMI-HDMI connection. In my case, if S97 is set to enhanced mode and Sanyo Z3 projector is set to normal mode, then I see loss of shadow detail.

no expert on the Z3 but unless you set it to use PC RGB levels over HDMI you should not use enhanced mode on the S97 side otherwise you will see crushed black and whites.

Enhance passes blacker than black right? (Enhanced=Video and NOT PC levels)

I would like to thank the group here. I had no idea that my DVD-S97 could be causing the "pink" problem that I was experiencing with my PTAE700. After figuring out that my player was @ rev 528 I downloaded the latest flash 540 burned to disk and updated the player. I re-setup the video and audio and put in a DVD and right away noticed a complete difference.

No more pink, could not figure out for the life of me where this was coming from I thought the panels were off (convergence), thought I might have to send back for a 4th projector. I called Panasonic Canada not once did they think it could be the player, always told me its the projector with the issue. I was getting frustrated switching out my projector after 60hrs of use. :)

Now to read some more and figure out how to fine tune this puppy for HDMI use with the PTAE700. Is it safe to assume you don't want the player handling any of the contrast, brightness controls, and that the projector should handle this. i.e. turn off enhanced mode like stated in prior posts.

Originally posted by Bruno1453
Enhance passes blacker than black right? (Enhanced=Video and NOT PC levels)

I always thought Enhanced was PC not Video - can someone confirm?

Originally posted by gstdt
I always thought Enhanced was PC not Video - can someone confirm?

You are correct. Standard (the default setting) is for Video RGB. Enhanced is for PC RGB. Note this setting only applies if you are using RGB over HDMI. If you are using YCbCr, this setting has no effect.

Thanks for the education.

Hi,
I'm using the 528 firmware. Do any of the updates add the ability to move subtitles upwards instead of just downwards? I haven't had a chance to try hdmi yet, though I doubt that would affect it.

Can I just chime in and say that the 12 second MB test is a waste of time as far as I'm concerned? I ran it on my Dell LCD 1920x1200 screen, and there's tons of this "macroblocking" but it's clearly a limitation of the file, rather than my LCD. I've no doubt if I ran it on my Panasonic XP30 DVD player, there'd be tons of macroblocking (that isn't) on there too.

WilliamG:

That clip is direct rip. What you observed on the XP30 is the normal picture. Since you viewed it on your XP30, this gives the idea what to spot for when viewed on the S97 when MB comes into play.

When observing on the S97, spot for red blocks which appear out within the black background and does make the clouds look red and exaggerated. It is very obvious through 528 and minimized through 536 and 540 as I can still see it (but a lot harder to see).

I had some pictures comparisons in the past but I'll post them again.
Look here (http://home.comcast.net/~avs_sango/Macroblock.zip)

Here (http://home.comcast.net/~avs_sango/MBCompare.zip) is another picture comparision shots from Chobits and Princess Mononoke. Compare the nmb with the mb of the same numbers to spot the differences.

Sango

I can certainly see the difference. That's not my argument (I owned and returned the S97 for unsatisfactory MB). I'm just saying that the 12 second video clip is not a good test. It's a low bitrate file and looks like macroblocking even on my laptop LCD.

Oh ok, I see what you mean. Yeah it does look like MB myself at times but I've seen it so many times on my Geneon DVDs (they put that logo in there) I didn't think about it.

I just found the Geneon animation to be the most obvious way to spot it out compared to high-bitrate videos.

I did play the same clip on my computer using WinDVD on a Sony CRT computer screen and looks fine as well. More harder to notice the low bitrate MB when observing as the picture looks smoother.

I upgraded to 540 last night and found an improvement over 536 on my Toshiba 51HX84 (HDMI, RGB, normal, 1080i). 536 improved the MB in dark scenes, but still had it in white (e.g. clouds, etc.). 540 is greatly improved in whites, but has a pinkish effect in noisey grey scenes. For example, in "Master and Commander" in scene 14 & 15 when the ship is in the rain. I get lots of pink noise (pun intended) in the rain.

Cheers,
Peter.

p.s. Big thanks to LiteUp! and Sango for making this available. My Panasonic Service Department took 2 weeks to do the 536 upgrade.

Originally posted by joe221
I have a specific request and hope someone here has the right equipment combination to help.
I've angsted over which of these DVD players to get with my BB Reward bucks and have settled on the S97. (I'm pretty sure my sales guy can procure one from Magnolia and sell it to me via BB, my local BB is a hybrid BB/Magnolia) So does anyone here have a Sony XS955 set hooked to the S97 via HDMI with firmware 540? If so are you pleased with this combination? ANY help is much appreciated!!! TIA!

I have the same setup too. I recently upgraded with 540 firmware but still in the middle of tweaking the tv. One particular problem I've noticed is the beginning scene in Finding Nemo where Nemo is ready to go to school and he's waking up his dad. The shadows behind them didn't look right.

At first, with 528 firmware, I was definitely not happy with PQ. The 536 firmware made huge difference. I haven't looked for any difference between 536 and 540. I'm about to email Fiz to find out his settings.

Originally posted by ritewinger
I have the S97 with 536 upgrade. I am using a Panasonic Plasma and have a serious issue with loss of shadow detail. IT is really bothering the heck out of me. The best verbal description I can say is that in darker scenes, some background (especially walls etc) appears to shift colors, like it doesn't know what color to stay. I also see it sometimes in the shadow of someone's face (noticed when watching 24 DVD) where there is a serious loss of detail. Anyone know what this is called or how it can be fixed or minimized. I would greatly appreciate anyone who could help. I tried reading the posts in this thread but it is OVERWHELMING! Thanks again in advance!

The color shifting thing, I think, is macroblocking. I'm also not happy with the 24 Dvds. But then again, I've been watching the current season on FOX-HD through HDTivo and that has the same PQ (very grainy). I think it's the way the recorded the movie.

The fox broadcast of 24 is poor for HDTV standards. I also see the grain and crushed blacks. DVDs are not much better.

I don't know what broadcast of 24 you're watching but I think it looks great. Better than a lot of ABC HD (but not Lost of course.) It's shot with a grainy look on purpose, but nowhere near as bad as the Shield. I think the HD broadcast recreates the original source wonderfully.

Originally posted by jakeman
The fox broadcast of 24 is poor for HDTV standards. I also see the grain and crushed blacks. DVDs are not much better.
From a friend in the biz..." the interiors of 24 are intentionally filmed with grainy images to give it sort of a gritty look.
The grainy interiors look that way for a reason. Dim lighting and high speed film stock = grain."

Personally I can appreciate the "artistic value" of this for period pieces like Band of Brothers but, it does nothing for me when used in a weekly modern day broadcast series.

I was considering this player for my Samsung DLP using 720p over HDMI. I remember seeing somewhere that this player actually comes with an HDMI cable. Is this true? I just want to know whether or not I need to buy my own.

Also, how does the Panasonic with the 540 firmware compare to the Denon-2910. I am concerned about macroblocking and was wondering which model showed the least problem with it. The S97 seems to be the best budget HDMI player on the market, which is why I'm interested in it.

The 97S does come with a HDMI 6' Cable. The 77S when it is released will not have the cable included. The amound of macroblocking will depend on the display you are using. The 97S with the new firmware really reduces the problem making the S97 a great HDMI player with few problems.

If your Sammy DPL is a HLP model you will have no problem as the S97 comes with the HDMI cable. If you have a HLN model (as I do) you have to have a HDMI to DVI cable. I run the optical cable thru my stereo receiver for sound.

Hope this helps

Newbie question here.
If one purchases an S97 now will it come with the new firmware installed?
If not, what is involved in adding the firmware to the player.

Thanks.

Make sure you even NEED to upgrade it. I'm running 528 on mine and I have NEVER seen macroblocking, pink tints, ever. I suppose it could be there, but off all the movies I've watched I've never noticed it.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.....this is great advice here IMO.

Originally posted by vonzoog
If your Sammy DPL is a HLP model you will have no problem as the S97 comes with the HDMI cable. If you have a HLN model (as I do) you have to have a HDMI to DVI cable. I run the optical cable thru my stereo receiver for sound.

Hope this helps

I have the HLP4674W with both DVI and HDMI. I would like to use the HDMI input and use the DVI for my cable STB and possibly a HTPC. I think I'm going to go by my local Tweeter store and see if they have this in-stock. Then again, I could probably get a better deal online.

I have upgraded my player to 540 firmware. I had few problems with my display the AE700 projector with the earlier firmware. It may just be me but I do notice a slightly better picture with 540 and my display.

It has been pointed out many times that macroblocking depends on the display you have. If you are happy with 528 keep it. I would download the new firmwares since it is very easy to do the upgrade on the Panasonic 97S. (Keep them if you have no problems now and change your display later.)

rwestley, are you able to properly calibrate your AE700U using DVE with the S97 over HDMI? I can using component, but have found it impossible to do so via HDMI.

I have the Panasonic 50PHD7UY plasma and the S97 running into the HDMI port. With the 528 firmware, I prefered the component picture. The 536 upgrade was great but the 540 is much better, so much so that I no longer use the component for DVD viewing.

I agree, I also notice a better picture. I was watching Donnie Brasco (special edition) yesterday and I was very impressed with the PQ....a lot better than I would have expected from a 2000 dvd.

I have used DVE with HDMI. I have a Panasonic AE700 projector and with the new firmware Installed. The unit passes blacker than black and whiter than white. I also tried many of the other tests with my combo. I think the problem with calibration depends on the display being used with the S97.

If one has a macroblocking problem it probably would be impossible to calibrate. I also did a quick test using the THX test on many DVD's and
had no problem with my combo.

Originally posted by D96
Make sure you even NEED to upgrade it. I'm running 528 on mine and I have NEVER seen macroblocking, pink tints, ever. I suppose it could be there, but off all the movies I've watched I've never noticed it.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.....this is great advice here IMO.

D96:
This is true in most cases, but if you have not seen 540, how can you compare? You might actually think 540 looks superior to 528. I'm not suggesting you run out and upgrade to 540. I was skeptical and thought my player looked pretty good with 536. So to put my mind at ease after reading all the pros and cons, I just went out and bought a 2nd S97. I Upgraded one to 540 and other had 536. I was able to do my own comparison on my own TV with two different version players. I could see immediate improvement with 540, particulary with black levels.

Hi,

witch firmeware is the better one: 536 or 540

in a german forum i have read that the 540 have a lot of bugs.

Originally posted by tburton
D96:
This is true in most cases, but if you have not seen 540, how can you compare? You might actually think 540 looks superior to 528. I'm not suggesting you run out and upgrade to 540. I was skeptical and thought my player looked pretty good with 536. So to put my mind at ease after reading all the pros and cons, I just went out and bought a 2nd S97. I Upgraded one to 540 and other had 536. I was able to do my own comparison on my own TV with two different version players. I could see immediate improvement with 540, particulary with black levels.


Why would I want to ? The PQ I'm getting from 528 is outstanding, blows people away when they come over to watch movies. I'm not gonna mess with firmware on the premise 'it MAY look better'.

The fact is that most of us have reported that 540 does look better. That is the reason why many have updated the firmware. 528 had big problems with macroblocking along with a few other problems. Panasonic has made the effort to remedy the situation. They have even updated the firmware on the units they are shipping now. I could understand not updating the firmware if others had problems with the newer firmware. It seems that from the posts you will get an even better picture. That could be a reason
to update the firmware. I took the chance and I notice an even better picture than I had before. The choice is yours.

Ok, I updated my to 540. When I put RBG to enhance, the screen is a lot darker than RBG in standard. I have to either increase the brightness from the player to +4 or from the TV to be able to see the THX logo from the TXH set up disk coming with "Finding Nemo". Is that normal? and what the enhance do, is it going to give better pictures? Thanks

The enhanced in RGB is PC colourspace instead of Video colourspace (which is what your display will be expecting). This is why you have to make so many adjustments to compensate.

GSTDT,
Can you tell me more about it? Do we really need to use the enhance or standard would be fine. Any advantages from one to another. You mean PC like "computer" or something else?

Eric Scott should be able to tell you more than I, but what I understand is that Enhanced (PC) has a grayscale that is lower down i.e darker, than Video, so to get an equivalent picture you have to boost brightness and contrast to compensate. This maybe introduces another layer of processing so that errors are made leading to a loss of information [resolution, detail]. Therefore Normal [Video] is better as it is what your display is expecting.

I may be wrong but this is how I understand it in my simple world:D

Originally posted by LatinLover
Hi,

witch firmeware is the better one: 536 or 540

in a german forum i have read that the 540 have a lot of bugs.

I would say 536. Definitely. My player is from Germany and I cant use 750p with fw 540 (because that freaking pixel distoration problem). So if you want to be sure it works, use 536.

JP

thanks (Danke :D )

Originally posted by lnguyen
GSTDT,
Can you tell me more about it? Do we really need to use the enhance or standard would be fine. Any advantages from one to another. You mean PC like "computer" or something else?

The term "Enhanced" is a little misleading - you probably think it provides a better PQ but that 's not necessarily the case. This option is really a toggle to allow the S97 to send the proper RGB color space setting to your display. Your display will be expecting either Video RGB (most likely this is the case) or PC RGB (if you have an older display with a DVI input designed to work with a computer). You need to send the display the proper signal. Turns out that "Standard" is for Video RGB and "Enhanced" is for PC RGB - very confusing. Again, Enhanced will not provide a "better" picture unless you happen to have a PC RGB display in which case it only looks better b/c it's the proper setting.

Sounds like you have a Video RGB display (based on the fact that you need to crank up your brightness to see the THX logo) so leave the setting on "Standard".

Note if your display has an HDMI input (not sure how you are connecting the s97 - HDMI-HDMI or HDMI-DVI) then you almost definitely want to leave the setting on Standard.

Mucho Thank You all

Originally posted by EricScott
The term "Enhanced" is a little misleading - you probably think it provides a better PQ but that 's not necessarily the case. This option is really a toggle to allow the S97 to send the proper RGB color space setting to your display. Your display will be expecting either Video RGB (most likely this is the case) or PC RGB (if you have an older display with a DVI input designed to work with a computer). You need to send the display the proper signal. Turns out that "Standard" is for Video RGB and "Enhanced" is for PC RGB - very confusing. Again, Enhanced will not provide a "better" picture unless you happen to have a PC RGB display in which case it only looks better b/c it's the proper setting.

Sounds like you have a Video RGB display (based on the fact that you need to crank up your brightness to see the THX logo) so leave the setting on "Standard".

Note if your display has an HDMI input (not sure how you are connecting the s97 - HDMI-HDMI or HDMI-DVI) then you almost definitely want to leave the setting on Standard.

Eric

I have a PW6 with a DVI board that I use an input. On all the Panasonic docs that came with it, they make reference to the input of PC's rather than Video devices. Shouldn't this mean its expecting PC colourspace [I guess that because it's HDCP is an important signal that this is not necessarily the case]

G

Originally posted by gstdt
Eric

I have a PW6 with a DVI board that I use an input. On all the Panasonic docs that came with it, they make reference to the input of PC's rather than Video devices. Shouldn't this mean its expecting PC colourspace [I guess that because it's HDCP is an important signal that this is not necessarily the case]

G

Very possible. If you have access to Digital Video Essentials, set the S97 to "Standard" and check Title 12/Chapter 2. If you cannot make the outermost blacker than black bars appear, no matter how high you turn up the brightness on both yoru display and the s97, then chances are your display wants PC RGB. Flip the setting to Enhanced. Note that if your display is expecting PC RGB then even with the proper setting (Enhanced) the BTB bars on DVE won't be visible. However, this is the right setting.

Originally posted by svolman
Does this $10 remote make it Region Free? If so, please provide a link.

Spasibo

Did you try this? If yes was it easy to do. Have anyone else try this "special remote" to make the player region free?

For those of you that want to see a good explanation of MPEG artifiacts and Macroblocking (with pictures), I suggest you read this excellent article:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/algolith-mosquito-video-noise-reducer-3-2005.html

...and remember this from the first post of S97 Brain Dump thread:

================================================
Guide to S97 Noise Reduction (thanks to Hugh2):
-------------------------------------------------------------

Depth Enhancer, MPEG DNR, 3D-NR

I've spent some time with each of the above noise reducer options and would like to share my thoughts. First off I'll say that yes all three of these noise reducers do work and all in slightly different manner. I know little of the algorithms and processing of how these filters work so I'll just offer my viewing observations.

Depth Enhancer

Effect is subtle but evident on a number of disks I've looked at at full player zoom plus full Iscan zoom. The filter averages dark and light areas in a random manner smoothing the image subtly on both the horizontal and vertical plain equally. This filter does not discriminate noise artifacts from non therefore smooths the entire image equally on all plains. Except for the smoothing effect this filter has no obvious artifacts. This filter seems to work more precisely on a more pixel by pixel basis and is far more subtle than the MPEG DNR.

MPEG DNR

This filter has the most obvious most intrusive effect of the three. It appears to work by smoothing much larger blocks of the image than the others but surprisingly smooths the image by smoothing pixels biased on the vertical axis. On setting one I can see the vertical streaking beginning to appear as the filter begins to squeeze out the contrasting elements of the image. The untouched lightly colored areas become thinner therefore also appear taller which gives the overall effect of light colored vertical streaking artifacts similar to what you see in scratched moving film but much finer obviously. At the highest position most evidence of the streaking is gone as the smoothing oils merge and become one. This filter does not discriminate and affects the entire image.

3D-NR

This filter is quite interesting and is completely different from the other two. It has no affect on a static image or parts of the image free of visible noise. Therefore when either the image is paused or when no noise is present the filter does nothing, to use a military term it works like a smart bomb with little collateral damage. The filter attacks only the quick moving noise artifacts of the image and instead of the usual smoothing method of concealment this NR instead somehow slows down the quick movment to a relative crawl and in some cases to a stand still (sort of like digital molasses filter). I've noticed the NR does not work with all types of noise where on some noisy images it's effect was obvious while seemingly similar conditions in other images no effect was noticed. This filter has no negative smoothing/blurring streaking artifacts I could perceive and can be cranked up without worry. Overall this filter is very impressive though subtle.

Edit: After a few more days of using the 3D-NR filter I have noticed during cetain scenes it does have an obvious artifact. I've only witnessed this artifact on human skin during slow or fast movement but it must be present elswhere as well. The artifact is a quasi double image which appears in sections where there is obvious color changes such as blushed cheek bones for instance. When the subject moves one image legs behind by slightly but is pulled along like it's attached by an elastic.

Using 3D-NR and Depth Enhancer in tandem has a synergistic but subtle effect and works pretty well at removing minor noise and except for the double image artifact at times there is only minor loss of image quality. Setting Depth Enhancer on 1 (2, 3, and 4 have little additional benefit) and 3D-NR on 1 or 2 (not cranked as previously thought) should be suitable for most conditions but YMMV.

Since all images have a certain amount of noise I feel comfortable turning on these two filters and just leave it. If further NR is required then simply using the MPEG DNR at setting 1 or 2 should suffice, but I would avoid using this filter unless necessary.

I purchased a remote from http://www.dvdchips.co.uk and it worked perfectly. I have tested the player with region 2 PAL, and region 3 discs, and they all worked flawlessly.

Chauncey

Originally posted by Chauncey
I purchased a remote from http://www.dvdchips.co.uk and it worked perfectly. I have tested the player with region 2 PAL, and region 3 discs, and they all worked flawlessly.

Chauncey

Does it do pal to NTSC?

Lappy here...just upgraded my pal dvd97 to 540....I now have pixelshift, one row of pixels, half the screen. Very annoying. What can I do besides waiting for a new firmware?
TIA

Zoro:

Nope, only is you have a PAL compatable display.

Chauncey, do you have a R1 player? Wanted to make sure the DVD Chips remote works on a R1 player (& not just R2).

Read this (http://www.shoyle.f9.co.uk/dvdchipsuk/helppages_panasonic.htm).

Paul,

It's starting to look like we may need to put a warning up on the first post for PAL users stating they shouldn't use 540.

Yep.

Will do.

Paul

I wonder does Panasonic know about the problem with 540 and Pal. Is it possible we will see another firmware update?

Sango, any luck with the person who is working on making it possible to
revert to the old firmware and making it region and macrovision free?

Still work in progress.

Can I safely revert back to 536 (from 540) ? I have a pal player.

@lappy4711

sorry, but that is not possible!

Brajesh,

I have a region 1 player. It will not convert PAL to NTSC. It will output PAL as PAL, and it now plays all regions after the remote hack.

Good Luck,

Chauncey

Was your player a North America Region 1 NTSC unit to begin with? I just want to play other Regions for NTSC on my US unit? Do you have to use the remote each time to change region?:)

That's all I needed to know, thanks. I ordered the chipped remote. Thankfully, my Panny AE700U projector can handle PAL. The only concern is all I'm reading about PAL people having trouble w/the S97 with v.540 firmware. Hopefully, we'll get a new S97 firmware soon & hopefully it won't undo the region hack.

I have a brand new, latest stock on my way. If it is still 536, I can compare 540, with 536 and keep one!

I now have a PAL version, how can I make the S97 regionfree?
Can it be done with a remote or does some kind of chip have to be modded?

Might want to look around post #895 since this has been talked about on several occasions.

it seems impossible to turn subtitles on and off via the menu with 540. Can anyone confirm?

Subtitles can be turned on or off on any unit. If a disc were to have PUO to prevent it, then probably that's one reason it doesn't work.

Let me explain a little better: After I upgraded to 540 I had to use the DVD's menu structure to turn subtitles on or off. I can not do it using the subtitle button.

I have 540, i could use remote

The same goes for me - I currently use the RP91's remote for all the units I own. Also tested with the RP82's remote as well at the RP56. My S97's remote is still in the box since the 91's got the right design and features I need to use.

It seems like your remote is defective.

Originally posted by jakeman
Thanks for the great work tburton. I am going to install v540 tonight. :p

So jakeman - what's the verdict? Is 540 better than 536? Getting ready to upgrade my firmware (currently I have 536).

Thanks

I've been watching for a few nights now. There is less blocking and blacks are deeper. I had to move my brightness and gamma setting up one notch compared to 536. Colours are better but I think there is more background noise in 540. At first I thought it was the DVDs but after several movies I concluded there was slightly more noise which I easily adjusted with the NR settings. On the softness issue I couldn't see any difference over 536. I will give 540 a thumbs up over 536 but only after some tuning.

Thanks jakeman. Actually flashed my s97 last night. Haven't watched much on it yet but definitely notice faster menu navigation.

What NR settings did you tweak? I ran a quick DVE calibration and set Contrast to -1 and Brightness to +1 just as I had in the past. Left everything else at zero.

What type of display/what connection are you using the s97 with?

Thanks

No problem with 540 turning subtitles on or off with either the remote "subtitle" button or navigating the menu structure. Just to be sure, after selecting the subtitle the subtitle then has to be turned "on" (if subtitle is turned "off") so it can be a two-step process.

Paul

Seems to be the specific disc. I was watching "Ray" after i did the upgrade and the menu showed something else than english, spanish etc. After your feedback i checked a few other disks and they worked fine.

EricScott. I upped mosquite NR , I think they call it 3d NR on the S97, to 1 and depth enhancer to 1. That reduced the noise to barely perceptable and left the rest of the image alone. These NR adjustments are the best features on the menu in my opinion. Funny how most people don't use them because most dvd's suffer from some noise as a result of sub par transfers. I just found more of it with 540 on my 50"lg plasma. I sit 12 feet back so any noise, artifacts or soft images really bug me. I was surprised with the brightness setting at 2 but have lowered it back to 1 with gamma at 3 and contrast at -1. I find these settings make for the punchiest image on my display. I like 540 but without these tweaks I would have preferred 536. Blocking hasn't been a problem for me luckily.

Originally posted by jakeman

Funny how most people don't use them because most dvd's suffer from some noise as a result of sub par transfers. I just found more of it with 540 on my 50"lg plasma. I sit 12 feet back so any noise, artifacts or soft images really bug me.
Hardly any Dvds today suffer from "sub-par" transfers. The 540 release in not over-enhanced as was the 528 firmware. Suspect the noise source(s) are caused by external power or airborne conducted interference and/or by to much redundant corrupting digital processing in the LG display.
A Sony LCD display would have been a better choice, but to late for that.

I beg to differ. While the display cannot be ruled out as a source of noise there is quite a difference in video quality in dvds. Looking closely at the various star wars discs which are better quality than most will show variability with empire strikes back as being the superior of the set. The fifth element is also another excellent transfer. Better transfers just stand out. Many other dvds, particularly older ones, do exhibit some degree of noise which the s-97 NR settings help remove/reduce. Many projector owners complain about the same thing which a big screen would emphasize further, though most people likely wouldn't notice or sit far enough back that it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by reincarnate
Hardly any Dvds today suffer from "sub-par" transfers.

LMAO !

There is a huge difference in dvd transfers. When my opening nite had Big Daddy as the first movie, I was appalled and mad that someone had really wanted to see that movie because it looked like crap on the big screen. The second movie, Day After Tomorrow, really showed how great a picture the projector could throw! There is no doubt in my mind there are huge differences in dvd transfers. The most recently released disks are far better than some original transfers from a few years ago.

Originally posted by reincarnate
Hardly any Dvds today suffer from "sub-par" transfers. The 540 release in not over-enhanced as was the 528 firmware. Suspect the noise source(s) are caused by external power or airborne conducted interference and/or by to much redundant corrupting digital processing in the LG display.
A Sony LCD display would have been a better choice, but to late for that.

Oh...my....God....Devil Incarnate...try watching "Wall Street", "Swimming with Sharks", "Scarface" and tell me if they compare in clarity, sharpness and vivid accuracy like "Gladiator", "5th Element", "Lawrence of Arabia", "Behind Enemy Lines", "Blade 2" etc etc.. Dude?

Bladerunner

Originally posted by EricScott
Very possible. If you have access to Digital Video Essentials, set the S97 to "Standard" and check Title 12/Chapter 2. If you cannot make the outermost blacker than black bars appear, no matter how high you turn up the brightness on both yoru display and the s97, then chances are your display wants PC RGB. Flip the setting to Enhanced. Note that if your display is expecting PC RGB then even with the proper setting (Enhanced) the BTB bars on DVE won't be visible. However, this is the right setting.

Eric

did as you suggested and used DVE Title12/Ch2 (Grey scale with pluge). On standard I couldn't get the outermost black bar to appear (and as predicted couldn't get it to appear on Enhanced). Thanks a million as I've been wondering why blacks and whites have been looking odd for a while now :D. Is there another way to calibrate the black level apart from the particular test pattern?

G

Originally posted by lancestorm
The most recently released disks are far better than some original transfers from a few years ago.
That is my point. As I said before "todays" disks are as a whole awesome. Studios have been mastering in HD for several years now. The quality baseline is quite high. Same goes for the sound quality. I am very appreciative of the quality efforts made by many people in the industry.

The underlying technical limiting issue is that with only 7.x bits of resolution (16-235), the room for end user digital picture enhancement is rather small, lest their be nasty quantization artifacts.

Just a bit of enhancement is usually advantageous as we try to help our eyes compensate for Dvds low resolution, especially when the image is greatly magnified. Some people can see much better than others too, an important yet never discussed issue.

The fact is the industry has pushed the current DVD format to near the limits of of the quality of which it is capable. If Sony buys MGM, then even their Dvds should become first rate quality.

All that being said, the latest true HD movies (on my cable) keep getting better. They are in a word beautiful. HD DVD/Blue Ray is expected to offer us all quite a thrilling experience.

So sit back and enjoy the show.

Originally posted by gstdt
Eric

did as you suggested and used DVE Title12/Ch2 (Grey scale with pluge). On standard I couldn't get the outermost black bar to appear (and as predicted couldn't get it to appear on Enhanced). Thanks a million as I've been wondering why blacks and whites have been looking odd for a while now :D. Is there another way to calibrate the black level apart from the particular test pattern?

G

There are a number of patterns on DVE that let you set black level but I find Ch 2 to be the best b/c it's designed primarily to set blacks as opposed to some of the other patterns that let you do lots of other things as well. The other pattern that a lot of people use is the Reverse Gray Ramps (Title 12/Ch 14 - I think?). I use that one to set contrast on my DLP but you can also use it to set blacks.

Who's keeping an eye out for the next version of the firmware after 540? They will have to release one because of the the problem with PAL. Anyone?

People don't sound like they're as gun-ho about it as the previous releases...

We use to get many posts per day asking about the releases and now people are arguing over DVD picture quality....:confused:

perhaps its because the problems 540 brought was to us pal users and seeing as you guys mainly use r1 it dosent affect you as much!!

Regarding the Pixel Shift problem on PAL S97s with 540 firmware:

Sorry to be the exception to the rule but.......

My PAL S97 (540 Firmware) is connected to a Sanyo Z3 projector via HDMI 720p and I do NOT get any pixel shift. My player is region 2 and has not been region hacked.

I do however notice that the bottom line of pixels does not reach all the way to the right hand side (short by about 20 - 30 pixels). This does not effect the whole image though - just the bottom row of pixels. I can eliminate this by tweaking the overscan setting on my Z3.

Hi Everyone,

I have tried numerous time to update firmware from 536 to 540 but keep getting the message "failed to read the disc". I followed the instructions, step by step, burned the firmware on a CD-R using Nero (not using multi session), put the disc in the player, it asks if i want to update, after it starts updating, a couple of minutes later, it reboots and i get the message "Failed to read the disc, Please eject the disc".

Can someone please help me? Thanks so much.

Lisa

gstdt- On mine through HDMI I have to set Brightness at +1 in the DVD user menu to pass blacker than black.

missgamer- If your using Windows XP just drag and Drop it to the CD-R and let XP copy it.

Missgamer, I would try to download the ISO file on page one of this thread.

Download a free program "Burn At Once" and copy the ISO file to a CD-R
disk. The file you have may be corrupt. It is worth a try using the ISO
file. Unzip it put it in a folder and use "Burn At Once." Hope this helps.

I used the Burn at once software and this time it worked! I successfully updated the firmware. I don't know why Nero didn't work.

Thanks a lot for your help rwestley!

Lisa

Originally posted by jcc
Who's keeping an eye out for the next version of the firmware after 540? They will have to release one because of the the problem with PAL. Anyone?

People don't sound like they're as gun-ho about it as the previous releases...

We use to get many posts per day asking about the releases and now people are arguing over DVD picture quality....:confused:

The firmware fixes show up when they show up. Perhaps for many people 536 was just what was needed. As I recall, the first reports of any firmware fix came from Tohoho in Japan (I think he broke the news of both releases). This was followed by reports in other countries then finally an internet release of firmware. It all seems to have happened quickly -- about two within a month after some months of waiting. We want Panasonic to get it right so some patience might be warranted.

Paul

Originally posted by mookoo
Regarding the Pixel Shift problem on PAL S97s with 540 firmware:

Sorry to be the exception to the rule but.......

My PAL S97 (540 Firmware) is connected to a Sanyo Z3 projector via HDMI 720p and I do NOT get any pixel shift. My player is region 2 and has not been region hacked.

I do however notice that the bottom line of pixels does not reach all the way to the right hand side (short by about 20 - 30 pixels). This does not effect the whole image though - just the bottom row of pixels. I can eliminate this by tweaking the overscan setting on my Z3.
Hmm, very interesting. So, there is a difference between ae700 and z3, when conserning the 720p (750p) image build-up. Very 'hilarious' that Panasonic's own projector won't get it right. :/

Originally posted by Salmisto
I'm in the same boat with begu78. I'm from Finland also and have the same pixel problems. My pj is Sanyo Z3 and its hooked to S97 via HDMI. FW is 540.
Strange........ Other PAL users have the Sanyo Z3 and are experiencing the pixel shift problem :confused:

I am wondering if there is a setting on either my S97 or Z3 which is correcting the problem......?

Originally posted by mookoo
Strange........ Other PAL users have the Sanyo Z3 and are experiencing the pixel shift problem :confused:

I am wondering if there is a setting on either my S97 or Z3 which is correcting the problem......?
Yes, maybe it is worh to try. There is settings for picture 'movement' in the ae700 menu. Using it, it is possible to tune the picture up/downward and left/right in one pixel accuracy.

I will try that. Is thee anything else to try?

Also, maybe the firmware of the projector is diffrent. It might explain the behaviour.

I will take a picture of the pixel shift bug today and post it here.

I have the pixel shift problem with ae500 s97 sw 540 via dvi. Hopefully the upgrade is on its way...

Originally posted by LiteUp!
lnguyen,

I believe they fixed a bit of the edge enhancement in 720p and 1080i that was there in 528, so the picture might appear a bit softer (as it should to be correct). Did you go back to all of the settings you had in the player prior to the upgrade (since they were reset)? I have looked at the edge enhancement using DVE and some patterns.....it now appears more accurate than before....but definitely not "soft" in any way. I run at 720p since my Z2 LCD projector is 720p native (1280x720).

Since updating to 536 I too have experienced a softer picture. I've had to increase Sharpness form 0 to +4 to get it back. Perhaps the edge enhancement is gone, but I prefer it the way it was before. Wish I could undo the update and go back to 528.

blue, i actually boosted sharpness on my TV.

Originally posted by blue439
Since updating to 536 I too have experienced a softer picture. I've had to increase Sharpness form 0 to +4 to get it back. Perhaps the edge enhancement is gone, but I prefer it the way it was before.


I agree, picture is a lot softer with 536 than before. Hopefully this can be corrected by a new firmware update from Panasonic?

I would hope that Panasonic would continue to fix the few new problems with another firmware update. I have few problems with the current 540 firmware. Using the 97S with the Panasonic AE700 projector via HDMI produces a great picture with little or no macroblocking. Those in Europe and Australia who have the new cropping problem should contact their local
Panasonic office and demand a fix.

I have skimmed through this thread and other threads concerning the S97. But all I got was confused...

Can someone give me clear answers:

1) Is HDMI on S97 bad? People seem to report that it is noise and that component and even s-video is better from S97!

2) Is s97 and Z3 a good or a bad combo? Anything I should know?

/David

Originally posted by pinkfloydhomer
I have skimmed through this thread and other threads concerning the S97. But all I got was confused...

Can someone give me clear answers:

1) Is HDMI on S97 bad? People seem to report that it is noise and that component and even s-video is better from S97!

2) Is s97 and Z3 a good or a bad combo? Anything I should know?

/David

In my experience, testing the S97 to the same monitor with HDMI and Component, HDMI is the clear winner. It was much clearer and brighter. However, that's not saying it's always GOOD. In other words you can see defects like macroblocking and bad transfers (and even bad skin on the actors) much clearer. A less clear picture masks problems.

Sure.

But do you have any idea why a lot of people are reporting lots of noise on HDMI and almost no noise on component and s-video? One guy in this thread compared Minority Report on HD with Minority Report on DVD, both on Z3. With component and even s-video, there was almost no difference. With HDMI, DVD was much worse.

Is the Z3 at fault here? But I think that the same reports have been given by people having displays other than Z3.

/David

In the world of subjective viewing there are almost never any clear answers. There will be a lot of "I see...", however.

For example, I see no loss of detail with the 540 update via HDMI and think the S97 has an incredibly detailed picture.

blue439 has provided some clues -- for many people, depending upon what they're used to, the increase of detail may not initially be viewed as a good thing. For example, if one has listened to a stereo system with rolled off highs for a long time, a suddenly introduced "flat" system may sound "unnaturally" bright, fostering comments such as "etched" or "grating". In video, the increase in detail will reveal flaws and other picture aspects not previously seen.

The clear answer for any one person usually comes with one making a purchase and having a lengthy look with various material (just be sure of return privaleges).

Paul

Originally posted by pinkfloydhomer
Sure.

But do you have any idea why a lot of people are reporting lots of noise on HDMI and almost no noise on component and s-video? One guy in this thread compared Minority Report on HD with Minority Report on DVD, both on Z3. With component and even s-video, there was almost no difference. With HDMI, DVD was much worse.

Is the Z3 at fault here? But I think that the same reports have been given by people having displays other than Z3.

/David

I am the one who owns the Z3 and the S97 and prefer component or S-video to HDMI . I like the player and think it is a good match for the Z3. But I find that when making a very critical comparison of PQ, that the HDMI shows too much noise. In the big picture it is a small amount of noise, but compared to the component I prefer the PQ from component.

I have been disappointed by this because in reading others reports on this forum I thought that using HDMI and upsampling to 720p would make a significant picture quality improvement over the 480p from the RP62 I had been using. I cannot say that I think this is the case. But overall I think that this is a very good DVD player, but it won't make a DVD look like HDTV.

Also the comparison I made between HDTV and S-video on Minority Report is not the best, since it is inherently a grainy movie. On a cleaner movie I am sure that I would have seen a bigger difference in PQ to HDTV. But I have looked at several other movies comparing component to HDMI and I think HDMI is too noisy unless you use some DNR and then the picture starts to get too soft. I am still hoping someone with a Z3 an tell me some setting that might make HDMI look sharp without the video noise.

Tom

I think that the HDMI just shows the video as it is. So, it does not alter it anyhow meaning: everything on the compressed MPEG2 video is shown (the noise, compression artefacts etc.)

In contrary, using a analog component or s-video connectors include TWO conversions between analog and digital domain. First there is digital to analog conversion in the player and some buffering analog amplifiers and filters, before the videosignal gets to the component (s-video, or any analog connector). And secondly there is a analog to digital conversion in the display device to convert the analog video back to digital in the purpose to feed it to the videocircuits and show the video.

Now, there are many different types of A/D and D/A conversions, different filters, amplifiers and circuit lay-outs. There are many components (poor/good quality) to choose from. This leads to the situation that the analog signal transfer can affect to the video. Generally using poor components and simple or cheap desing will lead to poor picture. But good analog trasnfer (from player to display) will show good picture.

Generally some filtering and the two conversions do tend to slightly soften picture and loss some detail. This also makes it possible that some video noise is lost too (because of the filters and buffers and conversion circuits).

But: the digital taransfer (DVI, HDMI) will not affect so much to the video. Of course there is some colorspace conversions etc. (I'm not an expert) that can harm the video, if done 'badly'. So I must say, a bad digital transfer WILL look worse than a good analog taransfer. But in general, and in case of S97, the digital transfer produces good quality. Also, the analog signals are good too.

The small difference must be there (because of the conversions). So, in case of S97, the HDMI will transfer all the tiny video details, including noise, MPEG2 artefacts etc. The analog transfer might not show those all tiny detail and noise. Also there might be difference in display device too.

This whole discussion is only my personal thoughts, based on wide information in these forums, so tehre might be some irrelevant and erroneus considerations. But in general I think that the above is somewhat true, if not please correct.

pinkfloydhomer,

I have a S97 with Z3 and prefer HDMI. I have no technical explanation except that I like it better than component. From the posts, both component & hdmi can give you good picture. So it's like getting 50-50 chance of good or better picture.

Got to do the 540 firmware now...

Who makes these firmware updates, Panasonic?

I have dowloaded the 540 firmware to my computer. Do I then burn that to a CD or DVD and load it into the DVD player?

Does Panasonic have available and can it deliver a firmware CD?

I feel like such a newb:confused:

Cheers,

Matt

Originally posted by matwags
Who makes these firmware updates, Panasonic?

I have dowloaded the 540 firmware to my computer. Do I then burn that to a CD or DVD and load it into the DVD player?

Does Panasonic have available and can it deliver a firmware CD?

I feel like such a newb:confused:

Cheers,

Matt

If we can be so lucky as to get a firmware CD from Panasonic. Like you I downloaded 540 firmware and burn it to a cd. Load it to S97 and follow instructions.

My head's swimming a bit with all this information. What should I do here?

I'm running top quality component cables to a IF7200. The distance is too great for HDMI/DVI.

Should I:
1. Apply the 540 update?
2. Apply the 536 update?
3. Neither.

My problem with the picture is (a) when I see sky or underwater scenes, in U571 for example, I see a lot of unnatural blocky noise (is that macroblocking?), and (b) some movies like Ladder 49, the skin tones are too reddish (is that the pink complaint?)

Will one of these updates address these problems?

I just don't want to run the wrong update.

Thanks.

Erod, you cannot have the macroblocking issue with component since you are not using upscailing. I would adjust your setup using one of the setup disks such and DVE or AVIA. If you do not have one of these try the THX setup available on many disks. It is possible that the pink look could be on the film. Skin tones are different often on specific fillms. I don't know how far your cable run is but it is possible to get longer HDMI cables.

Regarding the fimware upgrade: The main problem was macroblocking through HDMI at 720P or 1080I. I don't think the upgrade would do much for you. I would, however, download the firmware and keep it if you ever want to use HDMI. Upscailing using HDMI is the main reason why most of us purchased this player.

Regarding the fimware upgrade: The main problem was macroblocking through HDMI at 720P or 1080I. I don't think the upgrade would do much for you. I would, however, download the firmware and keep it if you ever want to use HDMI. Upscailing using HDMI is the main reason why most of us purchased this player.

You make it sound like they solved the macroblocking issue with the latest firmware? Is that so?

/David

The firmware updates come from Panasonic. They will not supply a cd of these updates. Follow instructions on page 1 of this thread.

1. Download the file and unzip. Burn to a regular CD using Nero.
2. Put the CD in your player and follow instructions. It will take a few
minutes for the upgrade to be finished. Do not unplug the unit during the upgrade. You must reset all settings after the upgrade.

If you want to use the ISO file download a free program called BURN AT
ONCE and after your have dowloaded the file and unziped it use Burn at
Once to burn the CD. Follow the same directions as the non iso file for
updating once you have the cd finished.

Originally posted by rwestley
Erod, you cannot have the macroblocking issue with component since you are not using upscailing. I would adjust your setup using one of the setup disks such and DVE or AVIA.

Thanks. I did use the DVE, but I'm still getting more noise than my previous player on some scenes.

For instance, in U-571 when they drop the depth charges, as it sinks, I get a halo like noise around the depth charge where the water seems to divide into two different shades. Ugly.

Perhaps more tweaking, but I'm pretty familiar with my 7200. Not sure how to smooth this out.

Also, I'd need about a 15-foot HDMI to DVI cable. My understanding is that I wouldn't get a good signal at that length. Is that correct?

Originally posted by Erod
Also, I'd need about a 15-foot HDMI to DVI cable. My understanding is that I wouldn't get a good signal at that length. Is that correct?

I have a 25 foot DVI cable with a HDMI adapter with no problems between my Panny S97 to Sharp Z2000.

Originally posted by Bruno1453
I have a 25 foot DVI cable with a HDMI adapter with no problems between my Panny S97 to Sharp Z2000.

Well, there ya go. I'll add one today. Thanks.

Erod,

If you have an NTSC player, I would definitely recommend 540 firmware. Did you read the firmware update page I put up to explain exactly step-by-step how to burn and install the firmware? I purposely put the firmware download link at the bottom of the page so you would have to read all of the instructions first:

http://home.comcast.net/~home_theater_test/s97_85E540_firmware_upgrade.htm

Originally posted by LiteUp!
Erod,

If you have an NTSC player, I would definitely recommend 540 firmware. Did you read the firmware update page I put up to explain exactly step-by-step how to burn and install the firmware? I purposely put the firmware download link at the bottom of the page so you would have to read all of the instructions first:

http://home.comcast.net/~home_theater_test/s97_85E540_firmware_upgrade.htm

Thanks, Liteup. I have one problem remaining. My 7200 pj has some foreign non-standard concocted DVI connection, so I've got to find yet another cable to make this work. It's a M1-DA cable, and so far, no one has it. May have to order it.

Just wanted to add in my 2 cents. I upgraded to v540 from v536 and immediately noticed a difference. The picture seemed crisper to me (non-techy). I did see more film grain from v528, but the same as v536. I bumped up DNR to +1 and everything is crystal clear for me. Best DVD picture I've had on this combo (S97 and HLP5063).

Another thumbs up from me on v540.

Well, when I popped in the 540 update on the all-purpose Memorex CD-R, it read "Can not read this disc", or something to that effect. Hmmm. It downloaded easy enough, but won't work in my S97.

With no update and component, I've got this thing dialed into a beautiful 480p picture. I almost hate to touch it.

Is the difference that noticeable?

Originally posted by bojangling
Just wanted to add in my 2 cents. I upgraded to v540 from v536 and immediately noticed a difference. The picture seemed crisper to me (non-techy). I did see more film grain from v528, but the same as v536. I bumped up DNR to +1 and everything is crystal clear for me. Best DVD picture I've had on this combo (S97 and HLP5063).

Another thumbs up from me on v540.

Which DNR setting did you change to +1 - 3D NR or MPEG DNR?

erod-

InFocus has an M1-DA to HDMI adaptor. It's $45 (!) and on back order.

Erod, why not try the ISO file on page one of the thread. Download the free program "Burn At Once" and burn the ISO file to CD.

Be sure you unzip the file to a folder before you burn it.

This has worked for others.

Originally posted by EricScott
Which DNR setting did you change to +1 - 3D NR or MPEG DNR?

I will double check when I get home, but I believe it was the 3D NR. The Mpeg DNR was a bit to intrusive for me. I sit closer to the television than probably intended (9ft) and I can really make out the film grain at that distance. I found that by upping the 3D NR to +1 eliminated enough film grain to keep it from distracting me without softening the picture. jakeman had suggested it a few pages back and it really did the trick for me.

What I did with my is set the MPEG DNR +1, AND 3-D DNR +1. That is enough to do the trick.

I wasn't able to get my S97 to work with my Denon 1905 AV/Receiver and spent weeks on the issue.

Once I upgraded to the 540 version, VOILA! It worked.

Video improved, but heck, the ability to run the audio through my receiver made me delighted!

Originally posted by rwestley
Erod, why not try the ISO file on page one of the thread. Download the free program "Burn At Once" and burn the ISO file to CD.

Be sure you unzip the file to a folder before you burn it.

This has worked for others.

I did download the ISO zip file, however after unzipping there is another S97ISO.iso file which is another zipped file and after unzipping that I get the DVDPUPDT.FRM file. So basically its NOT an ISO file.

Anyone else seeing the same thing?

Is 3D DNR the same as the "DeNoise3D" filter in ffdshow? I currently use an HTPC and the ffdshow denoise3d is a real god-send, something I couldn't live without. It cleans up the mosquito noise without any other ill effects and makes poor quality DVD's look great. And there are a lot of poor quality DVD's out there, including many of the best movies.

Anyway I want to retire my HTPC and get a set-top player but I'm afraid to sacrifice image quality. If the S97 cleans up noise as well as ffdshow\denoise3d then I'm all over it.

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
erod-

InFocus has an M1-DA to HDMI adaptor. It's $45 (!) and on back order.

We use this adaptor with the Screenplay 4805 and the S97 and an Ultralink HDMI cable.


Deb

I have no issues downloading the iso.zip file from the link posted on the first page.

Here is the file just rename .zip to .iso and burn using your favorite software.

Just as a point of interest. I received my S97 yesterday from J&R. It has a manufacturing date of Jan 2005 and is version 536.

The output to my Sony XS955 at 720p/HDMI is outstanding on first impression. (Finding Nemo as test disk) I haven't upgraded yet and am waiting first to see if a "545" comes out anytime soon. Or I'll just do it. ;-)

Has any of the PAL users tried downgrading to 536?

Originally posted by juhis
Has any of the PAL users tried downgrading to 536?

Yes, I did. The player goes through the motions as if updating the firmware, but if you check the version afterwards, it's still 540. Once it's done, you can't go back, as far as I know.

Alright, I'm finally upgraded to 540 (thanks for the help!), and I'll be HDMI tomorrow once my adapter arrives from Infocus.

So what can I expect? Say I play a solid transfer like Gladiator or Tears of the Sun, what will be the difference visually?

I've read where this upconversion makes almost no difference, and I've heard it makes a huge difference in sharpness and color depth.

Which is it?

Originally posted by Erod

I've read where this upconversion makes almost no difference, and I've heard it makes a huge difference in sharpness and color depth.

Which is it?

You'll find out

Depends upon the display and the display's own scaler. If the display's interal scaler is mediocre then the S97 may provide some obvious benefit with the upconversion.

In any event, the Panasonic is an excellent player with great performance characteristics unrelated to the upconversion, so it's more than a "one-trick pony".

Paul

I have owned many players including the Momitsu V880, The Samsung 831, the Zenithe 318 and others. No other player that I have ever owned has had fewer problems. The Panasonic plays nearly everything I put in it with no problems and a great picture. I still have my Momitsu for out of region disks but I like the picture and the built quality of the Panasonic much more.

The new firmware has made the picture even better. I am using it with
HDMI on a Panasonic AE700 projector.

How can you play a HDCD on this player? When I put a CD in which says HDCD, only the CD lights up on the front pannel?

Originally posted by bojangling
I will double check when I get home, but I believe it was the 3D NR. The Mpeg DNR was a bit to intrusive for me. I sit closer to the television than probably intended (9ft) and I can really make out the film grain at that distance. I found that by upping the 3D NR to +1 eliminated enough film grain to keep it from distracting me without softening the picture. jakeman had suggested it a few pages back and it really did the trick for me.

Yeah, it was the 3d NR I bumped up one, just confirmed.

Originally posted by mbaxter
Is 3D DNR the same as the "DeNoise3D" filter in ffdshow? I currently use an HTPC and the ffdshow denoise3d is a real god-send, something I couldn't live without. It cleans up the mosquito noise without any other ill effects and makes poor quality DVD's look great. And there are a lot of poor quality DVD's out there, including many of the best movies.

Anyway I want to retire my HTPC and get a set-top player but I'm afraid to sacrifice image quality. If the S97 cleans up noise as well as ffdshow\denoise3d then I'm all over it.

Only vaguely familiar with ffdshow as I researched an HTPC but went with a standalone DVD player. I would have to say they seem to do the same thing. Hard to compare the two directly without knowledge, but the S97 NR filters are a god-send for me as well.

Originally posted by Bruno1453
How can you play a HDCD on this player? When I put a CD in which says HDCD, only the CD lights up on the front pannel?

It probably does not have a separate HDCD lights because basically it still a CD. It just uses a 20 bit format instead of the regular 16 bits. So it carries more information and theoretically will sound better. Thus, the difference should be heard.

The manual makes it sound like a light will turn on when a HDCD is being played. See Page 5 of the manual. Also, shine a light into the display window and you can see that there is a HDCD figure built into the LCD.

I just realized this really belongs in the FAQ thread, but all well. Not worth cross posting.

Originally posted by bojangling
Yeah, it was the 3d NR I bumped up one, just confirmed.

I also have the Sammy 5063 and S97 combination over HDMI so I will give this a try tonight. Someone previously recommended increasing DNR to +1, but I don't believe he specified whether that was the MPEG DNR or 3D DNR. I increased the MPEG DNR to +1 and didn't notice a difference. Hopefully I will have better results when I make the switch.

Man oh man. This firmware update is going to be the end of me.

I've now burned five different CD-Rs from two different computers. The last two were unzipped and extracted from the ISO file, again from two different computers.

I still get a message "Can not read this type of disc" when I try to play it. I don't know if this is related, but when I push "Open and Pause", it does not tell me of any certain version on the screen either.

Perhaps it's because:
1. I don't have the HDMI hooked up yet?
2. There's a setting, such as HDMI 'on', that I need to turn on?
3. ?????????

Any help would be greatly appreciated. My M1 adapter is here, so I could be up and running today if I can get this @#$% update installed.

Thanks.

Originally posted by bojangling
Yeah, it was the 3d NR I bumped up one, just confirmed.

Thanks. B/c MPEG DNR doesn't do much for me when I increase that.

Originally posted by enier
It probably does not have a separate HDCD lights because basically it still a CD. It just uses a 20 bit format instead of the regular 16 bits. So it carries more information and theoretically will sound better. Thus, the difference should be heard. Is it possible that it only passes HDCD over the analog outs (like DVD-A)? Or does it pass it over the digital outs or both?

Originally posted by Skarpachi
I also have the Sammy 5063 and S97 combination over HDMI so I will give this a try tonight. Someone previously recommended increasing DNR to +1, but I don't believe he specified whether that was the MPEG DNR or 3D DNR. I increased the MPEG DNR to +1 and didn't notice a difference. Hopefully I will have better results when I make the switch.

You may not see a bigger difference. According to Hugh2 and his words on the first page of the s97 FAQ page, the 3d NR has a more subtle, less intrusive affect than the MPEG DNR. For me, it removed the film grain, which drove me near mad!

For easy access, here are his observations on the 3D NR: (Credit to Hugh2)
"This filter is quite interesting and is completely different from the other two. It has no affect on a static image or parts of the image free of visible noise. Therefore when either the image is paused or when no noise is present the filter does nothing, to use a military term it works like a smart bomb with little collateral damage. The filter attacks only the quick moving noise artifacts of the image and instead of the usual smoothing method of concealment this NR instead somehow slows down the quick movment to a relative crawl and in some cases to a stand still (sort of like digital molasses filter). I've noticed the NR does not work with all types of noise where on some noisy images it's effect was obvious while seemingly similar conditions in other images no effect was noticed. This filter has no negative smoothing/blurring streaking artifacts I could perceive and can be cranked up without worry. Overall this filter is very impressive though subtle."

what type of discs are you burning the iso to ???
perhaps you should try a different brand

Originally posted by slimshady
what type of discs are you burning the iso to ???
perhaps you should try a different brand

So far, I've tried a TDK data and a Memorex all-purpose.

Are you telling your burning software package that you are loading an .iso disc image to be burned? Also, make sure you are not burning a multi-session disc....it must be finalized.

Erod, what burning program are you using? I would suggest th free download Burn & Once for burning ISO files. It has worked for everyone who has used it. I like it much better than Nero for ISO files.

See link below. 99.05

http://www.burnatonce.com/index.htm?downloads

Any news on an updated firmware? What's with you people? For weeks after the release of the player people were talking up a storm and demanding to have the next firmware and now, NADA!!!

Does no one care that 540 is still full of bugs? Why aren't we demanding the next version like we did in the beginning?

BTW, I'm still using the orginal 528. I'm not entirely convinced that they have a real fix and not just screwing around with the picture settings to tweak out the MB. That's why I keep hearing that the picture looks darker or not as detailed, etc. An ideal firmware fix would be to remove the MB and the pink tint WITHOUT messing with the PQ settings of the orginal 528.

Thanks, Liteup and rwestley. I burned another with that program, and will give it a go when I get home.

Now I've got this guy at work selling me on dropping a few more bucks on a Denon 2910. He's pretty convincing, particularly with what he's saying about the improved audio I'll experience.

Someone talk me down from this tree.

Originally posted by jcc
Any news on an updated firmware? What's with you people? For weeks after the release of the player people were talking up a storm and demanding to have the next firmware and now, NADA!!!

Stockholm syndrome ?:)

I like my firmware upgrade.

I went with 540. No regrets. Could the PQ be improved further -- certainly!

With any luck maybe another update will be forthcoming. Maybe S77 development/debugging is taking up some resources, that may mean some future benefits for the S97.

Paul

Originally posted by Erod
Now I've got this guy at work selling me on dropping a few more bucks on a Denon 2910. He's pretty convincing, particularly with what he's saying about the improved audio I'll experience.

Someone talk me down from this tree.

OK. Do you read the 2910 thread in this forum? I've unsubscribed recently, because I've decided I'm not interested at all in the 2910, but some posters there recently were saying why spend the money on the 2910 when the PQ on the much less expensive S97 is almost as good! Then again, while I have a Sammy DLP set, my audio gear is good but by no means high end. YMMV.

Originally posted by jcc
Any news on an updated firmware? What's with you people? For weeks after the release of the player people were talking up a storm and demanding to have the next firmware and now, NADA!!!

Does no one care that 540 is still full of bugs? Why aren't we demanding the next version like we did in the beginning?

BTW, I'm still using the orginal 528. I'm not entirely convinced that they have a real fix and not just screwing around with the picture settings to tweak out the MB. That's why I keep hearing that the picture looks darker or not as detailed, etc. An ideal firmware fix would be to remove the MB and the pink tint WITHOUT messing with the PQ settings of the orginal 528.

Good comments JCC! Prior to the release of 540 I had heard rumours it was a testing version not for general release and regretably that appears to be the case. It's debatable whether it should have been released given the pixel cropping problems with PAL discs and the additional mosqiute noise which comes with it. While tinkering with NR settings cleans up the image, neither 528 or 536 needed that adjustment. And the problems with PAL discs indicate someone jumped the gun in releasing this version. I've asked Panasonic several times if I could downgrade from 540 and get the same negative response. Doesn't make sense to me...why not code the software to permit any version. I have not heard anything further about another version which is unusual in light of the problems with 540 and with s77 around the corner I wonder if they remain as committed to customer satisfaction as they preach.

With all this talk about firmware makes me feel it's like Microsoft Windows' patches all over again. If they cannot get 100% satisfaction then what is there threshold?

Here's something that I have not seen discussed in this thread yet:

A lot of folks have commented on PQ differences between 528, 536 and 540. Has anyone noted any changes in the audio?

I ask for two reasons - one if flat out curiosity and the other is that I have cracking noises when using HDMI that don't exist via component. I'm still running 528 (since I don't have MB problems and some people report a loss of picture clarity with 540 0 rightly or wrongly) and have been considering updating to 540 to see if this does anything to help.

IMHO, there is no reason to get a 2910 (or a 3910) if you do not need SACD....and if you do not use the 5.1 analog out on the back of the player for DVD-A. Otherwise, digital optical audio out to your receiver is a digital bitstream and will not sound different from player to player (it's ripped right off of the DVD and sent to your receiver). The video on the 2910 is not going to be any better (maybe a bit worse now that we have 536 and 540 upgrades out).

Originally posted by Erod
Thanks, Liteup and rwestley. I burned another with that program, and will give it a go when I get home.

Now I've got this guy at work selling me on dropping a few more bucks on a Denon 2910. He's pretty convincing, particularly with what he's saying about the improved audio I'll experience.

Someone talk me down from this tree.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
IMHO, there is no reason to get a 2910 (or a 3910) if you do not need SACD....and if you do not use the 5.1 analog out on the back of the player for DVD-A. Otherwise, digital optical audio out to your receiver is a digital bitstream and will not sound different from player to player (it's ripped right off of the DVD and sent to your receiver). The video on the 2910 is not going to be any better (maybe a bit worse now that we have 536 and 540 upgrades out).

That makes sense. I always wonder when I hear about the great audio impact that some DVD players have. Aren't they going through the same receiver? So which setting is overriding the other? Etc, etc.

If the 540 upgrade sharpens my picture and I can get the graininess and macroblocking out with the firmware, I'm staying with the s97.