Look a page back on a possibly new firmware: v541

The new firmware will not disable anything. The firmware is coded by internal model numbers so it knows what features should be there or not. The new S97 will have different model revision compared to older one.

Paul, have you evaluated the S97 built April 2005 or later with the newer chipset and the newer firmware? If so, does it exhibit any less MB than the older builds with the 540 firmware update?
Sorry if this has already been covered but I've been away for a few weeks and lost the plot here.

AkaStp,

No I don't have the April 2005 build. Reports have it that the macroblock enhance is still present. Can't say if the 360 firmware is any less than the 540 firmware.

Now there is the 541 dilemma.

Need to check it out.

Paul

Anyone want to encourage me to try the new firmware?

I guess I'll go for it. It's only a $300 player. ;)

No guts, no glory (but maybe a broken a DVD player)!

Paul

I just burned the disc. Let me know if it fries your unit, Paul.

Updating now.

Paul

I ran out of usual cd-r's so used a fujifilm and the cd player says is can't read this type of disk. Bummer, am hoping this firmware reduces vertical edge enhancement through hdmi which is causing shimmering on vertical lines while panning.

Updated it, it reads 541. Did not fry the player, initial run through of patterns look good but really didn't critically evaluate. Gotta eat supper!

Paul

Ran it too. Did not fry. My display keeps reading U70-3. Said this before the update occassionally too. Anyone know what that means?

U70-# is an HDMI error. From the manual page 19:

“U70-#” -- the HDMI connection acts unusually.
# stands for a number.
The actual number following “U70-” will depend on the state of this unit.
– The connected equipment is not HDMI compatible.
– The HDMI cable is too long.
– The HDMI cable is damaged.

Paul

Hmmm everything works fine. It must think my 30 foot cable is too long. Still looks great though. I popped in Star Wars Episode II and it looked great. It still crops too many pixels around the screen in 720p for my 0 underscan projector. Did anyone notice the 541 file is 8 MB which is twice as big as the 540 file?

Ran it too. Did not fry. My display keeps reading U70-3. Said this before the update occassionally too. Anyone know what that means?

Last night after turning off the HDMI video output to run 480P through component this error number showed up. I still had the HDMI cable connected so presume that had something to do with it, after reverting to HDMI "on" the display read as it normally does.

The firmware upgrade must have reverted the player to it's initial HDMI "off" settings.

The S97 has a strong version of HDCP. When the display is off (power switch is off, not standby), I usually get this error (The S97 is connected to a Zektor switch and then my projector). Turn the projector on and the error disappears.

Also, if you have multiple nodes before the display (more than one in-between), you will get this error and HDCP may not work. I could not get a DVI amplifier to work with the Zektor due to this error.

Not seeing anything new with this "541" update after a run though of some of my ususal test discs. Don't see anything bad, either.

I don't have PAL or multiregion so no comment in that area.

To get to the main point: Macroblock Enhance is not eliminated.

Paul

Robert,

While Kris is at it, you should get him to update your player with this latest firmware (86H362) from the link mentioned in this thread.....while he is testing.


Kris has my March 2005 build S97 and is currently ripping it apart.

I loaded 541 and am not seeing any changes so far either. I was hoping they had fixed the Incorrect Progressive Flags issue in Auto2 mode....but they didn't.

On the thread for the new firmware it states that the same new firmware can be used for the older and newer versions of the 97. I wonder if it can also be used on the 77?

Firmware for Panasonic S97. old 86H360/85E540, new 86H362/85E541

Is the 86H360 the same as 85E540 and 86H362 the same as 85E541?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2898

Your player will stay region free after this update.

Mine did.

Good to hear Dazog, thanks. Guess the mystery persists...what exactly is improved by this firmware?!

Ah that is why it's twice as big as the previous firmware! It has two copies in the one file.

Installed the new firmware last night and don't perceive a difference in PQ.

A question though, I've only seen reference to vertical edge enhancement causing shimmering while reading the OPPO threads but my S97 appears to suffer a similar trait using the HDMI out and to a lesser extent 480p over component. Sending a 480i signal my SP4805 and letting the projectors onboard Faroudja de-interlace completely eliminateds the shimmering and uneveness in the DVE vertical resolution test.

Adjusting sharpness or any other parameter has no effect so appears to be an S97 "truelife" enhancement problem perhaps (I can not mimic this problem while manipulation the projectors tweakable "truelife" menu). Anyone else notice this?

Look a page back on a possibly new firmware: v541

Thanks for that.
I swear I have been checking this thread every day or two. How did that post get by me!

I've flashed the new firmware, but I can't see any difference in PQ either. What I wanted to fix was the (slight) loss of sharpness you get when upgrading from 536 to 540.
It's still a great picture though. Sharper than the Momitsu, definitely.

Robert,

While Kris is at it, you should get him to update your player with this latest firmware (86H362) from the link mentioned in this thread.....while he is testing.


I am still wondering if Kris is working with S97 with this firmware and latest/renewed hardware gutts too?

Hugh2,
I noticed the same thing about edge enhancements over 720p, I can't seem to find a way to get rid of them, I've turned the sharpness down in all areas (DVD player and projctor).
Is there a way to turn the "truelife enhancement" down a bit?

BGA,

I believe the only way to turn off the vertical edge enhancement on the S97 is through firmware unless there's a secret menu somewhere.

Regarding the firmware upgrade, I could be completely wrong but I believe I might be noticing a very slight decrease in picture noise. Obviously these impressions can be of the whimsical sort but I'd like to hear others impressions in this area.

Good to hear Dazog, thanks. Guess the mystery persists...what exactly is improved by this firmware?!

At least 85E541 fixed PAL pixel drop bug.

"I believe the only way to turn off the vertical edge enhancement on the S97 is through firmware unless there's a secret menu somewhere."



Hugh2,
Thanks, I just bought my player a couple of days ago and haven't had time to really play with it or read all the threads about it. I wish they would let the user have more control, especially since everyone has such different tastes and displays. Although not many like edge enhancement!!

I should add that when running 480i and letting the pj's faroudja do the work there is the typical white halo around the bars in sharpness tests even with the sharpness all the way down but for some reason this is no shimmering and the dve resolution test looks perfect.

When using 480p through hdmi reducing sharpness levels will essentially leave a perfect non halo'd test pattern but the shimmering and uneven rez pattern persists.

I think I'll now check my toilet to see if the spirals the correct direction when flushed which may go along way to explaining a few things.

On the thread for the new firmware it states that the same new firmware can be used for the older and newer versions of the 97. I wonder if it can also be used on the 77?

Firmware for Panasonic S97. old 86H360/85E540, new 86H362/85E541

Is the 86H360 the same as 85E540 and 86H362 the same as 85E541?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2898


No it can't be used on S77. Internal model number is different and firmware will refuse to load.

I wonder if anyone could use a hex editor and make the 97 Firmware work on the 77?

Is there something in the hardware that will prevent this?

I wonder if anyone could use a hex editor and make the 97 Firmware work on the 77?

Is there something in the hardware that will prevent this?

If its not supposed to update the S77

there is a reason why.

At least 85E541 fixed PAL pixel drop bug.
Did you test it yourself or it is a quote from some other tester? Can anybody confirm this?

Did you test it yourself or it is a quote from some other tester? Can anybody confirm this?

Not me yet, but there are a few quys on Finnish forums who tested it and they said that it fixed PAL pixel drop bug.

Just tested this out on my European S97. Worked perfectly.

Both NTSC and PAL discs from all regions (bought it as a multi-region player) work perfectly. Don't have HDMI to test any upscaling features though.

I think it's definitely removed some edge enhancement (I'm using Component at 480p/576p). The American Family Guy DVDs (480p) show this off well, with the Sharpness set to -2 it looks a lot less ringy than it used to.

Not only this but it's gotten rid of a sort of weird mesh-like pattern that used to appear on dark backgrounds! :D The Swedish PAL version of "Nightmare Before Christmas, or the US version if you have it, is great for showing this. On the first scene at the beginning, crank your brightness all the way up and you'll see that there's no longer a weird pattern on the black backgrounds.

I'm really impressed by Panasonic actually fixing problems in their products that other companies would just brush off! I'll definitely keep these guys in mind for the future.

I got an email from Panasonic US to verify that the 362 is the latest for S97.

Sango, did they tell you specifically what was fixed in this version?

hi guys can you please tell me where to get the 541 firmware

thanks

slim

hi guys can you please tell me where to get the 541 firmware

thanks

slimhttp://www.hometheaterhifi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2898

Damian.

thank you


slim

I got an email from Panasonic US to verify that the 362 is the latest for S97.

any results from Kris yet on this firmware?

Kris has my S97 w/360 firmware for testing. I emailed him yesterday w/the link for the 362 firmware and asked him to load it. When he posts the results on the new S97 it should be 362. I think he's getting to it this weekend (I hope).

What is the source for 362 firmware? though!

I wonder if anyone could use a hex editor and make the 97 Firmware work on the 77?

Is there something in the hardware that will prevent this?

This is not that easy. You need to decompile firmware. This usually can be done 2-3 levels but you can never get to original files. These only exist on programmers computers.

Also you have to know what to look for and in this case it is impossible to find out as there is no reference point.

Thanks for the replies. I know it is not easy, I do wish that someone with great computer knowledge could find out the differences in the firmware. I guess I was expecting too much.

What is the source for 362 firmware? though!Zoro, the single file houses both 362 for the newer hardware build players, and 541 for the older h/w players (hence the 8mb filesize). Your player will just upload whichever it requires when you pop the disc in. I'm still waiting on a few more reports before upgrading mine from 540, as macroblocking and pixel-drop PAL bug are non-issues to me...

Damian.

egore:

Nope, because as I mentioned before in the past, Panasonic does't document what they update , unlike a manufacturer computer motherboard bios which does.

I ran the update last night and I find that the image (720p via hdmi) looked a little sharper, and had slightly less edge enhancement. I never see macroblocking on my Z2 projector so I can't comment on that issue.
I hope they continue with updates to correct the edge enhancement!!!

Zoro, the single file houses both 362 for the newer hardware build players, and 541 for the older h/w players (hence the 8mb filesize). Your player will just upload whichever it requires when you pop the disc in. I'm still waiting on a few more reports before upgrading mine from 540, as macroblocking and pixel-drop PAL bug are non-issues to me...

Damian.

Thanks, so people with 360 can upgrade to 362 with this 41 upgrade??? and that will be the case on the player Kris is testing right now?

Had my S97 for 8 months now and this new 541 firmware has removed the pixel drop bug. Player is still region free and at last I can feed my ae700 the PAL 750p signal. Yahoo.

How do you check the firmware on screen,

I too installed this 541 last nite and put in "Red Planet" which had lots of macroblocking on my PT43LC-14 in certain scenes, and it was reduced a ton. I'd say close to %80 gone. Maybe it is a "placebo effect", but I'd say it does look a little sharper, and image depth has seemed to increase.

Mike

How do you check the firmware on screen,

From the first post of the thread:

" Press and hold on the player the buttons "PAUSE" + "OPEN" and press the "7" button on the remote. The full version will be displayed on the florescent read out and the last 3 numbers on the right is the version number. "

Paul

I too installed this 541 last nite and put in "Red Planet" which had lots of macroblocking on my PT43LC-14 in certain scenes, and it was reduced a ton. I'd say close to %80 gone. Maybe it is a "placebo effect", but I'd say it does look a little sharper, and image depth has seemed to increase.

Mike

I have the PT-43LC14 too and have some questions.

What is your impression of the S97 with this display after the latest firmware?

Was Macroblocking that bad before?

Any regrets on the player?

Does the upconversion really make a difference on this display?

How does 480p look over component? Any difference?

I'm thinking about getting the S77, but if this firmware cures most of the macroblocking on the S97 I might spend the extra cash on it. Any info is greatly appreciated.

I upgraded to 541 last week and thought I would share my impressions to date. I have it connected over hdmi at 720p to a sim ht300e projector using a vutec 110" screen. I think Hugh2 first reported it but I agree there appears to be less video noise than 540 especially at depth enh set to 1 and 3d-nr at 1. After viewing some 6 dvds I have not noticed any macroblocking. Edge enhancement has been reduced again if not eliminated though image appears softer in some dvds. Overall resolution seems improved. On the downside I thought I saw some pink tint in the greyscale ramps which wasn't evident in 540. Overall I recommend the upgrade to anyone holding out.

I upgraded to 541 last week and thought I would share my impressions to date. I have it connected over hdmi at 720p to a sim ht300e projector using a vutec 110" screen. I think Hugh2 first reported it but I agree there appears to be less video noise than 540 especially at depth enh set to 1 and 3d-nr at 1. After viewing some 6 dvds I have not noticed any macroblocking. Edge enhancement has been reduced again if not eliminated though image appears softer in some dvds. Overall resolution seems improved. On the downside I thought I saw some pink tint in the greyscale ramps which wasn't evident in 540. Overall I recommend the upgrade to anyone holding out.

I've been holding off before commenting further until more time was spent viewing but now after a week or so I am absolutely convinced I'm seeing an improved picture over HDMI with a cleaner picture providing more depth and better rez due to less background noise. Every DVD I put on looks better except DVE test patterns which appears the same.

Has anyone w/ a DLP RPTV upgraded to 541? Any comments?

I never really noticed macroblocking much in 528 which shipped with my player but then I upgraded to 536 and shortly thereafter to 540 and notice it more now. Maybe it's just the movies I'm watching now and it's not really bad but noticeable. So I'm a little scared to upgrade.

AkaStp,

I think it may be a little of both. The MB is definitely not bad on my setup but I never really noticed it at all before. Maybe I've just learned to pick it out a little better or maybe the movies I happen to watch are more prone to MB. But I'm sure upgrading to 540 had some impact.

Hopefully 541 is slightly better in this regard.

Any news on PAL issues with 541 that seem to occur with 540??

So when will 541 be honored, and listed in post #1?

Has anybody upgraded to the 362 version on post April 2005 units?

I have a April 2005 build and notice macroblocking and a lot of pink noise on foggy and backgrounds with beige or gray colors.

Any idea if the 362 version reduces this to a certain extent?

Also can anyone who has successfully upgraded provide a checksum or md5sum of the firmware file? I would hate to try and upgrade with a corrupted file.

I've tested 541 on my PAL system. I'm happy to confirm that I didn't see any pixel drop or such in 720p or any other mode. I think as this is just a minor version number update over 540, maybe the issue with the PAL in 720p is the only thing that has changed. Anyway, for the moment, I'm quite happy with this new firmware.

I just got my S97, which was just made available less than 2 weeks ago (new release I'm guessing?). I shouldn't have to update the firmware correct?

WHERE FROM
and does it have a date on the back?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=PADVDS97S&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=319938

Got it here, looks like it's backordered again. I'm not sure about the date on the back, I haven't looked.

I upgraded my s97 to the new firmware 540 to 541 without any issues. I don't see any noticeable differences in PQ. It's hooked up via HDMI to my 61" JVC HD-ILA 61Z786.

I upgraded my S97 to 541 and it fixed the PAL pixel drop bug for me too.
It's connected to a Pioneer PDP-505XDE via HDMI, set to 720p output.
I'm pleased with the PQ and haven't noticed any macroblocking or any other issues.

The only problem I do have is that my player is still locked to Region 2 -
Having done some research, the only solution seems to be a service remote.

In the UK I've found 5 vendors that will sell or rent a remote that sends the
unlocking IR codes:

dvdcodes net £19.99
multidvd co uk £19.99
dvdchips co uk £23.50
multi-region co uk £23.49
multiregionupgrades co uk £24.99

Can anyone recommend any of these, or another vendor instead?

Are the codes available online anywhere or is there any other way I can make
the player multi-region? It should be possible to modify the firmware to disregard
the region setting, but looking at the firmware files they seem to be compressed
or encrypted as no strings are visible, so a disassembler probably wouldn't work
either... Has anyone looked into this kind of crack?

Hubert, check out http://www.multiregionmagic.co.uk/ , I've always heard them recommended.

I've used dvdchips and was satisfied.

My S97 I just received has June 05 on the back. This should be up-to-date firmware wise, correct?

Check with the first post of this thread for instructions to determine firmware version.

Paul

My June 05 unit has 86H360

E

I've used dvdchips and was satisfied.

Any of you folks ever think about using a learning universal remote to copy the IR codes from those one time use remotes? That way you'll be able to use it over and over again....two or three people can get together and pay just once.

who all have already upgraded to 541 firmware and what are your results? Worth going forward? Any stability issues? Reason I ask is coz Paul has not posted that on his first page of this thread.

upgraded last night... so far I don't have enough info to really say I see the difference.... I hope someone else could give their results to date... I will run a few tests tonight with my demo choices... Master and Commander as well as Finding Nemo.... I have never been happy with the Water Macorblocking in NEMO... anyone else been completely annoyed by that as well?? Or am I the only one?

Haven't updated the first post. I don't have PAL so have no comment on that but others have reported the "pixel drop" issue resolved.

I haven't seen anything on R1 NTSC that been improved or fixed. Perhaps the "pixel drop" issue was it or maybe an obscure operational issue.

Still looking for something, anything. ;)

Paul

First post updated.

Paul

Did the update. Yes, "pixel drop" issue w/PAL is resolved. Like others, I detect no other "improvements".

Well, I'm the new happy owner of a new-in-the-box S97. Just getting my subscription to the thread the lazy way ;)

Has anyone discovered what the differences between the pre and post April 2005 build (with hardware change) S97's are? I was looking and searching but couldn't find any ideas. I'm guessing we're waiting for Kris Deering's comments? (Nice guy btw - off topic)

I upgraded mine from the 540 firmware, and i think the 540 MB enhance was worse than the 536(?), but the 541 is better than both. And in finding Nemo I think that may not be macroblocking, just an artifact of compression and pretty unavoidable, but it is VERY annoying eitherwiess. it is present over component too. and (correct me if i am wrong) macroblocking is an effect of upscaling.

Mike

I upgraded mine from the 540 firmware, and i think the 540 MB enhance was worse than the 536(?), but the 541 is better than both. And in finding Nemo I think that may not be macroblocking, just an artifact of compression and pretty unavoidable, but it is VERY annoying eitherwiess. it is present over component too. and (correct me if i am wrong) macroblocking is an effect of upscaling.

Mike


Macroblocking only effects the HDMI output on this player. I'm not sure if it is an effect of upscaling though.

Joel

Is the 362 firmware for NTSC customers and the 541 for PAL users??

opps found my own answer-

the single file houses both 362 for the newer hardware build players, and 541 for the older h/w players (hence the 8mb filesize). Your player will just upload whichever it requires when you pop the disc in. I'm still waiting on a few more reports before upgrading mine from 540, as macroblocking and pixel-drop PAL bug are non-issues to me...

Macroblocking only effects the HDMI output on this player.
Not true! Not true! Not true! Not true!

I love this player to death but people have to stop telling other people this! Macroblock enhance may be present at ANY resolution or output affected by the faroudja processing, including 480p over component. It's just slightly less noticeable than 480p over HDMI and the way I prefer to watch this player.

Well, I've been holding off on any upgrades since buying my player in it's initial run. I've been using 528 all this time. I finally made the jump to 541 last night. I can't comment on the versions in between but I can definitely say that 541 is a BIG improvement over 528. The picture looks sharper and more vibrant. The picture looks almost 3D with good source material. I really like the upgrade.

And in finding Nemo I think that may not be macroblocking, just an artifact of compression and pretty unavoidable, but it is VERY annoying eitherwiess.

MikeMike, the artifact you're likely seeing in Nemo is commonly known as banding. It's where a scale of colours or grays don't natuarally fade from one shade to another, but instead show obvious 'steps' to the change in graduation. It's a regular occurance in animation and direct-digital transfers, so it's extremely probable it's part and parcel of the Nemo transfer. Wouldn't worry about it being any side effect of your S97. Must admit it sometimes has me rechecking discs on my PC and component player to CRT telly set-up when I spot it my S97/DLP FP set-up, though. A viewing of Appleseed had me at it just the other night, only to find that the obvious banding manifests itself regardless of what source I tried it through...

can anyone say that you will get less macroblocking with component verse HDMI, i strictly run hdmi right now and i just don't feel the High Definition quality that i see on other sets... I have a Toshiba widescreen... perhaps i am just WAAAAY to picky...

Thanks for the Finding Nemo info, I have been bothered by that forever (with the high definition HDTV ability and 1081i or 720p I really wanted to be sure i had everything rolling properly... but if i should give component a try let me know... will it really show me a more advanced view of my films if i go with HDMI over Component or otherwise.

I just got my S97 June 05 model and the firmware version is 86H360. Can I just upgrade it to the latest 541 version or do I need to take steps?

I MAY be wrong but I believe your firmware may be newer than the 541... from my knowledge... which is limited, yours is a newer version which may not be compatable with the 541 firmware... am i wrong? or can someone explain the difference between the 300 series and the 500 series?

The 86H360 is for the new model of the 97, the 541 for the original model. The new firmware contains the 86H362 and the 541 firmware. You machine will only take the files needed for the upgrade. The firmware is newer than the the one on the June Manufacture Date. I checked the date of the revision and it is July 4th. It might be worth an upgrade. There was some kind of hardware change that is the reason for two different versions of firmware. They are now both in the same file of the latest update. That is why the size of the file is twice as big.

Not true! Not true! Not true! Not true!

I love this player to death but people have to stop telling other people this! Macroblock enhance may be present at ANY resolution or output affected by the faroudja processing, including 480p over component. It's just slightly less noticeable than 480p over HDMI and the way I prefer to watch this player.

Hate to burst ya bubble bud, but you can't do 480P over component, so the macroblock enhance from upscaling/deinterlacing isn't present. There may be anomolies from dvd compression, but i don't think that it is the same thing we are talking about here.

Mike

I find MB to be quite a lot less noticeable at 480p over component than at 480p over HDMI. Of course, MB is less at 480p over HDMI than at 720p over HDMI. I do not however understand why there is MB at 480p over component or 480p over HDMI. Isn't is a scaling (rather than de-interlacing) issue.

So how do you have your s97 setup? Do you use component or HDMI? 480p or 720p? How bad is macroblocking in 720p over HDMI (the way my Sammy DLP is set up)? The reason I ask is b/c on my setup I would say MB occurs every now and then but isn't too bad. This is w/ v 540 and 720p over HDMI. Have never tried connecting with component or trying 480p.

I think the MB has to do w/ the Faroudja processing, which IIRC has to do w/ 3:2 pulldown and dinterlacing more than it does scaling. So it would make sense that if Faroudja is being used that the MB woudl be present.

Ok, thanks for the help. I know there's a link somewhere around here for the 86H362 firmware, anyone know where exactly?

I'm going to be utilizing an S97 that has been retrofitted with an SDI "out"....and this will be feeding into a DVDO HD+ SDI "in" for scaling.

My question is...I am unclear as to whether a firmware upgrade would have any effect or benefit on my particular set-up. Since the SDI is feeding right off the decoder chip am I correct in assuming that the firmware does not effect this root process at all...or would I, in fact, benefit from firmware upgrades ?

Intuition would tell me that the firmware updates only would enhance the "higher" functions & utilization of the faroudja scaling chip of the S97 and not the root decoder...but then again...if I truly knew and understood I wouldn't be asking :) . Thanks Much !!

Hate to burst ya bubble bud, but you can't do 480P over component, so the macroblock enhance from upscaling/deinterlacing isn't present. There may be anomolies from dvd compression, but i don't think that it is the same thing we are talking about here.

Mike

You can do 480p over component, just not 720p or 1080i.

Both and both. I have my S97 connected to my Samsung DLP using both a component connection (S97 set to 480p) and also via a HDMI-DVI connection (S97 set to 720p). Like you say, MB occurs every now and then but isn't too bad for the most part but there are some DVDs with scenes in which the MB is more noticeable. As mentioned in a different post I find MB at 480p over component < 480p over HDMI < 720 over HDMI. It is barely noticeable at 480p over component and would probably never have noticed it if I hadn't known it were possible to have MB at 480p over component.

So do you usually watch 720p over HDMI and if you see MB you then switch over to 480p component? I guess I'm just trying to understand when you use which hookups?

I never thought to change 720p over HDMI to 480p when MB is present but hey if that improves it, I guess it's a easy flip of a switch.

Its kind of a holdover from when I had a Samsung TS360 D* HD receiver which I felt looked better via DVI than component so I had it connected to DVI and the S97 to component. I recently got a D*HDTivo receiver which looks great over component so I hooked up the S97 to the DVI input and that is what I use most of the time unless I come across a DVD (like some old BBC Ameria sitcoms) that exhibit bad MB in which case I can switch to component. Apart from that, even at 720p over DVI-HDMI) MB tends to be so infrequent and brief in duration that its not worth changing. I did not mean to imply that MB is a major problem on the S97 its just a little irritating at times. I think that is the general consensus around here.

That's helpful. I feel the same way but I'm glad that I now know of ways to lessen it if it gets bad. I think I'm gonna upgrade to 541 later which will hopefully help a little.

Unfortunatley since the majority of the movies I watch are from Netflix, I can't even really remember which ones had MB and even if I could, I don't have them with me to test it out. So it will be tough for me do A/B comparisons.

Have to go through my collection and find some good test DVDs.

I hope I am not alone here but Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World is a WONDERFUL test disc.... great colors, lots of darks and water and well you name it this one tends to have it... I love to use it for Video refrencing.. anyone else? what are you testers... (after DVE of course)

Macroblock enhance may be present at ANY resolution or outputWell, SORT of true. MB enhancement is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse at 720p or 1080i (HDMI) than it is at 480p (HDMI). MUCH MUCH MUCH worse. Not that it's bad at 720p/1080i, it's just so un-bad at 480p. Some people claim to be able to detect it at 480p, others (like myself) have never been able to see it. It might be there at 480p (HDMI), but it is very slight.

For whatever reason, UPSCALING on this player results in maximal MB enhancement.

Regarding Finding Nemo: The S97 definitely adds to the color banding. This can easily be verified by switching from 720p/1080i to 480p. Voila...color banding gone (pretty much). That's what I do when I find a movie that is more susceptible to MB (or color banding) enhancement...just switch to 480p.

Cheers!

Regarding Finding Nemo: The S97 definitely adds to the color banding. This can easily be verified by switching from 720p/1080i to 480p. Voila...color banding gone (pretty much). That's what I do when I find a movie that is more susceptible to MB (or color banding) enhancement...just switch to 480p.

Cheers!

I have to say that banding occurs quite a bit even at 480p via component. 480i via component greatly decreases the banding but the tradeoff in PQ in all other areas makes it worth staying at 480p (to me).

Could we try to stay on topic please? There's another thread to discuss PQ of the S97 and the various resolution settings....

I understand what you're saying but the posts above are about the PQ, MB, and various settings of the S97 in general and NOT about what firmware does what specifically.

I'm more interested in the comments about SPECIFIC firmware. I think I've been pretty patient considering there's about a page and a half of comments about one resolution vs. another or about what source material is best for testing the S97, etc. I just think that's better handled at the "brain dump" thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5943075#post5943075

No offense to anyone.

I understand what you're saying but the posts above are about the PQ, MB, and various settings of the S97 in general and NOT about what firmware does what specifically.

I'm more interested in the comments about SPECIFIC firmware. I think I've been pretty patient considering there's about a page and a half of comments about one resolution vs. another or about what source material is best for testing the S97, etc. I just think that's better handled at the "brain dump" thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5943075#post5943075

No offense to anyone.

Fair enough. Running the 528 firmware (still) I would say banding is signifcant via component or HDMI in anything other than 480i and visible even then. This is now a firmware related statement. If those running 540/541 on the old builds or anything on the new builds see little banding this would be interesting to know.

i disagree to a slight degree... see, without the firmware there would be no reason to talk about the changes in PQ.... but none the less we are getting to off topic now...

Well, I've been holding off on any upgrades since buying my player in it's initial run. I've been using 528 all this time. I finally made the jump to 541 last night. I can't comment on the versions in between but I can definitely say that 541 is a BIG improvement over 528. The picture looks sharper and more vibrant. The picture looks almost 3D with good source material. I really like the upgrade.
I upgraded from 536 and I think it is worthwhile too. Need to do some serious viewing. Did not care for 540 at all.

Important:
After burning go straight to the THX grey scale optimizer picture (I use Monsters Inc.) to set the black level. For the first time my Sony HS20 projector can stay at its default settings. So is the Panasonic. (Wow we finally got the levels right, we can do anything now!)

Important note for HDMI users:
while displaying the THX grey scale optimizer picture, switch between the HDMI colorspaces. My blacks went to green when using the HDMI YCbCr output. Therefore I can ONLY use RGB colorspace with my Sony HS20.

Last the Auto AV mode may be set upon power removal.

Now that I've spent more time with the 541 I've noticed that it shows a bit more pink? Look at the b&w scene in the beginning of Kinsey, I see some pink blotchiness at different parts of the screen. They seem to fade in and out. Anyone else notice this?

I noticed slight pink noise in the DVE grey scale ramps which wasn't there with 540. However the image seems to have better resolution over hdmi with no macroblocking in evidence so far.

Yes, 541 does have a sharper picture and less macro than 528 but the pink is definitely more noticeable too.

Yes, 541 does have a sharper picture and less macro than 528 but the pink is definitely more noticeable too.

Does the increase in sharpness outweigh the increased pink?

Does the increase in sharpness outweigh the increased pink?

I think so. The sharpness is noticeable in all materials whereas the pink is only noticeable in B&W material. I haven't watched too many B&W films on it yet. I have noticed some of this on Star Wars ep IV: A New Hope. But I don't know if that's the original film stock or not. For example, when C3PO is walking in the desert with R2D2, C3PO's chest changes color from gold to B&W/Pink as a cloud passes overhead.

I've also noticed this in a couple other films I watched where the color shifted around. Again, I don't know if it's the original film stock or if the player is not decoding the color palette correctly. But it's more noticeable now with 541.

Anyone have enough pull with Panasonic to get 480i added to HDMI out?

Ken

Yup, I called my sister's boyfriend's cousin's late departed third step-son's aunt's older nephew's maid's dog walker's friend...he's the director of product development...we're good buds. He says he'll get it added as soon as I stop stalking him about weird geeky dvd player stuff.

:)

jcc, the Star Wars desert scene is known to have problems - see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5887510&&#post5887510

I thought this pink problem had been solved in v 536. Macroblocking never bothered me but pink in B & W scenes does. So the tradeoff so far with 541 seems to be better resolution, less edge enhancement and more pink...hmmm.

Pink was never solved in my case, just greatly reduced. I didn't notice an increase (or decrease) in the low IRE pink in the DVE grayscale w/541. B&W material is suspect to random, odd, subtle pastel-like colorations which I think is a result of the MB Enhance.

Paul

Thnx Jon-O. It's great having powerful friends :)
Ken

Hi, I just picked up an S97 at Fry's Electronics today with a build date of June 2005 and firmware 86H360. I have just updated the firmware to 86H362, and all went well. So far I really love this player, though have only had it for a few hours. I had the S77 for a week or so, originally wanted the S97, but they were out of stock at the time so took the S77 instead. It too was a great player, but I returned it for the S97 since they just got a new shipment of S97's in. Anyway, the S97 is a great player and the firmware update was very easy.

Thanks to all of you for your ideas and information.

Rick

Anyone have enough pull with Panasonic to get 480i added to HDMI out?

Ken
I think you can already do it. Well, I have not actually tested it with a NTSC disk but with my PAL discs, if you go to the setup menu and turn HDMI video "OFF", you'll get 625i on the HDMI output. Funny, isn't it? :)

jcc, the Star Wars desert scene is known to have problems - see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5887510&&#post5887510

That's nice to know. Although I've noticed problems in other desert scenes such as Lawrence of Arabia. The sand seem to shift iin color. It could also be problems from the film stock?

Paul is right when he said that B&W materials seem to shift with pastels.

Are you saying that you went from 536 to 540 but did not like the results with 540 but then you went to 541 and were much happier with 541 than you were with 540? If so, what benefits did you feel that 541 provided that 540 did not?
No I did just what I said. Stated with 536, went to 540 then went back to 536. Don't ask me how either, but I did do it.:)

How how good is 541? It shows the finest details such as skin pores without being overcooked.

Great dimensionality and transparency for a Dvd player. (HD sources look better).

Noise is not hidden either. If it in the film you will see it. I used Strictly Ballroom to test this. But it is not being added by the player either. (Verified with Monsters Inc.)

All of this makes for a more involving, movie watching experience. I use the HDMI outputs for both video and audio. A state of the art combo (S97 and XR70).
The British are going nuts over this player too, just as we Yanks are. Congratulations must go to Panasonic for staying with the player, reducing the price back to what it should have always been and out doing the Chinese competition.

For the history books:
It has been a long crooked road going from the first hyped Genesis chip in the Samsung 831 to Panasonic S97 Rev 541.

Has anyone with the 86H360 firmware done the update to 362 yet? I did yesterday and it seems fine, but was wondering what the changes might have been. And if anyone could see a difference going from 360 to 362. I have not really noticed anything since I did the firmware update the day I got the player.

Thanks, Rick

No I did just what I said. Stated with 536, went to 540 then went back to 536. Don't ask me how either, but I did do it.:).

You would have many grateful people lauding your contribution if you shared that knowledge. :)

FYI, I just received a new S97 direct from Panasonic....build date is July 2005 but firmware is still 86H360.

Will try to upgrade once I get used to the existing picture...want to see potential improvement.

Jim

I don't know if anyone else has had this problem, but I keep having this problem where the S97 will now auto zoom any 2.35:1 movie to 16:9 resolution and fit my TV. I find this very annoying.

I have think I have messed with pretty much every option that I can find. When I set the zoom to 16:9 standard, it just sets it to fill the screen, all the other zooms are just zoomed in more, and AUTO just picks 16:9 standard.

When I switch my TV type to 4:3 or 4:3 Wide, it won't auto zoom but obvious the picture is out of proportion.

I think this is a new problem since I upgraded the default firmware to 5.36 then now to 5.40, it was happening on both versions..

Anyone have a similuar problem?

I have messed with my TV's own zoom features and it doesn't seem to be any of those.

Hi everyone. After reading positive recomendations for firmware 541 I upgrade from 540. My S97 came with 536. The upgrade finished without problems so I proceed to configure the S97 as suggested from the first thread. Now I discovered that the S97 would not let me choose HDMI Color Space. It only has the option RGB. Before the upgrde I was able to choose between the three. My TV is a rear projection JVC HD-52Z575 which is connected hdmi to hdmi. I try reinitialize but it did not help. Has any of you had this problem? Thanks.

My S97 with the 360 firmware also zooms my 2.35 dvds...not to full 16:9 but somewhere inbetween. I just returned a S77 and it did not do this...but the S97 picture is much better.

I havent played around too much, but what I have done has not addressed the issue.

Jim

Questions...

So, has anyone had their player crap out on them while updating Firmware?

I have one of the originals that I bought in November of last year. It has been an awesome player for me and I would like to upgeade the firmware. However, the macroblocking is not very noticable for me. So i'm trying to out-weight the risks.

BUT, I'm worried that it may crap out on me and I'll be SOL. I have my CP-72 on reserve and it is also a great player for me. But, I don't want to be out $300.

Just checking to see if anyone has bad experiences, or if you are really happy with the upgraded firmware?

1 more question...

Since I have firmware 528, do I need to upgrade in steps? Like do 530 1st, 540 2nd and then 541 last?

Or just go straight to 541?

Thanks, updating.

/crosses fingers

So far so good. Popping in Sin City to check out this pink issue.

Well, so far on the main DVD screen it displays when there is no disk in. The macro blocking is all but gone. It used to be if i turned up the brightness on my set, the mb would go nuts. Not so anymore.

The pink on Sin City is greatly reduced as far as I can see so far.

So far I am happy.

There never was much pink, just an off grey type deal. Nothing I noticed untill read about it and looked for it.

I have been trying to upgrade my firmware to 541 on the S97. I have copied it to CD-R and it will not read the disk when inserted. I have also tried using a DVD-R and player still says it can't read disk or "NO PLAY" on the front. Any suggestions what I might be doing wrong would be appreciated.

Thanks


Jeff

You can do 480p over component, just not 720p or 1080i.

My mistake, I thought that I had read the manual thoroughly. I missed the part where it says to turn on 480P you have to disable HDMI. I had been under the ASSumption that aince it was always putting out a 480I signal from component, that was all there was. I learn something new everytime i read through these threads.

Johlsapple, What burning program are you using? Did you finalize disk? Did you check what is on the disk after you recorded it? Make sure you have file DVDPUPDT on
the disk. It should be 8,196KB.

QUOTE]Johlsapple, What burning program are you using? Did you finalize disk? Did you check what is on the disk after you recorded it? Make sure you have file DVDPUPDT ont he disk. It should be 8,196KB.[/QUOTE]

I used the window XP and Roxio Drag and Disc, for the CD-R. I finalized and checked and the file was on the disk, 8,196 KB. I also recorded on a DVD-R using Nero Burning ROM. I confirmed it was on this disk also.

Jholsapple, I would try a different brand of disks and would try a DVD+Disk. It seems very strange that it did not work.

Where is Kris's input on upgraded player?

Kris borrowed my new build S97 and loaded the 362 firmware. He told me he found no difference with the old player with the 540 firmware he had tested and reported in the Benchmark. There will not be a separate report, just an addendum to the current report on the S97 reporting his findingss with the new build and latest firmware.

After flashing 541 firmware in my panasonic S97 I started to have a problem with HDMI connection. On the front LED on my DVD player I saw an error message: "U70--3" and also there is no picture on the screen. Although, this player works fine with another connections such as Component, RGB, SVHS. etc. When I connect another player with this HDMI cable everything works. Could somebody help me please.

T_vlad, the player goes back to its factory settings when you flash the firmware. Did you reset the player to the outputs you want to use?

t_vlad, I get that error when I turn on the player but the display is completely powered off (I turn off the power switch on my projector when now in use). It's an HDCP failure - the S97 is not able to communicate properly with your display device. Try to turn on your display before the S97. If you use a switcher, make sure it's on the right selector.

The S97 is very picky about HDCP when it powers up.

I am one of those people who upgraded to 541 and now see MB more often. I did not use to see it on 528, if I recall correctly.

One good DVD to show MB - Lost in Space, Chapter 2. As the city picture pans downward, look at the grey clouds. Lots of MB motion (not there at 480p so it is not an MPEG artifact).

T_vlad, the player goes back to its factory settings when you flash the firmware. Did you reset the player to the outputs you want to use?
Yes, of course, I reset my player from setup menu (re-initialise settings)
But still on the screen there was no picture... :(

Try to turn on your display before the S97.
I turned on my projector panny AE700 before my player S97, and still there is an error message "U70--3".

t_vlad, is the projector directly connected or do you use a switcher?

If directly conneted - you may need to completely power down both units and start over. Maybe one of them is not properly passing the HDCP verifications.

t_vlad, is the projector directly connected or do you use a switcher?

If directly conneted - you may need to completely power down both units and start over. Maybe one of them is not properly passing the HDCP verifications.
My projector is connected directly. I did as you said, powered down both units and started over. Then i firstly switched on the projector and after that i switched on the player. The message error "U70--1" appeared. In 1 min there was another error "U70--3", there is no picture on the screen.

t_vlad, if the pj and the S97 are fine, then you need to investigate the cable. Try plugging it back again on both ends.

If you do not even see the S97's wallpaper (not playing a DVD) at 480p, then I suspect a cable problem.

Kris borrowed my new build S97 and loaded the 362 firmware. He told me he found no difference with the old player with the 540 firmware he had tested and reported in the Benchmark. There will not be a separate report, just an addendum to the current report on the S97 reporting his findingss with the new build and latest firmware.

Can you please lead me to where he has outlined these facts?

with some dvd's i get a reduced size image once it gets past the menu and have to zoom in to fill the screen. This leaves a faint amount of light around the perimiter spilling off the screen. what is this? is there a setting that can fix it? thanks. pk

I suspect a cable problem.
i think that the problem is not in the cable, cos it works fine with another DVD player.

Upgraded from 540 to 541. Initial observations, no more white crush with contrast set to 0. Image seemed to be slightly sharper with just a bit less noise (I think)

I am running 540 software and still see the pink tint in gray backgrounds.
Has anyone seen a reduction in this with the 541 upgrade?

Thanks,
Jeff

Just upgraded from 528 to 541.

Now suddenly all 4:3 material is stretched out to 16:9! I am running HDMI with 1080i (or 1125 with PAL to be exact) to my Sony HS50. This appears on both NTSC and PAL material.

Before upgrading, 4:3 material was detected correctly and not stretched. What is going on?

I have went through all my S97 settings and can't find anything wrong. Only way to get correct aspect ratio is to change HDMI to 480 (or 525p in PAL). But I don't want to do that manually every time.

Please, some ideas? What have I missed, or is this a new bug in 541?

/Jonas

You have to set 4:3 DVDs to shrink in one of the submenus.

Just upgraded from 528 to 541.

Now suddenly all 4:3 material is stretched out to 16:9! I am running HDMI with 1080i (or 1125 with PAL to be exact) to my Sony HS50. This appears on both NTSC and PAL material.

Before upgrading, 4:3 material was detected correctly and not stretched. What is going on?

I have went through all my S97 settings and can't find anything wrong. Only way to get correct aspect ratio is to change HDMI to 480 (or 525p in PAL). But I don't want to do that manually every time.

Please, some ideas? What have I missed, or is this a new bug in 541?

/Jonas

1125i is a total number of lines. It is the same as 1080i. 525p is the same as 480p. This has nothing to do PAL. To be exact DVD's are not PAL or NTSC. They are component SD digital video.

You have to set 4:3 DVDs to shrink in one of the submenus.

Thanks a millions times!

I was real sad yesterday but now happy again!!!

/Jonas

I just got a July 2005 S97 from OneCall and it has 86E360.

Anyone else have this version?

Thanks,
Ken

I just picked up the S97. My firmware version is 86H362. Is this the latest version for the revised S97?

UCSb, the 86H362 is the latest version of the revised S97. What was your date of Manufacture?

I am running 540 software and still see the pink tint in gray backgrounds.
Has anyone seen a reduction in this with the 541 upgrade?

Thanks,
Jeff
I actually see more pink in 541.

Do we know what was revised?

I watch Empire Strikes Back last night and was impressed with the clarity of the image. I saw no MB, but the colors are over done.

Couldn't find my filters to get the color adjusted. This was all at 720P over HDMI into a 720P Samsung DLP RP. Operation was flawless.

Ken

UCSb, the 86H362 is the latest version of the revised S97. What was your date of Manufacture?

Thanks, July 2005.

I actually see more pink in 541.
Damn, that sucks.
Thanks jake, I guess I'll wait and see what the next release does.

-Jeff

I have read elsewhere on this forum that HDCP hand shakes between display and devices don't always work when going from DVI to HDMI even if both are HDCP compliant. Have you tried turning on your display first and then your player to see if the HDCP hand shake works correctly? I'm no expert with this problem, but I think some people never actually found a resolution to this problem for their display/player combo. Just more bs from the MPAA at the consumer's expense...

Just wanted to add that revised 86E360 S97 has MB. It shows up easily in color bars.

I'm also having trouble getting the shadow detail that I get with my Pio 727 megachanger. Everything else is superior. (except MB, but I haven't noticed it in any real material yet)

Ken

I see a contouring probem on gray ramp patterns. Plus with Avia the sub menu titles are double focused.

I see a contouring probem on gray ramp patterns. Plus with Avia the sub menu titles are double focused.

Tom, what firmware level is your s97?

Just collecting info.. If I can't use the S97 and my projector, I may have to swap it for an Oppo. or H941.

I don't know but it says made July 2005 so most likely it has the latest. Maybe it's a bad machine, the Oppo doesn't show steps/contouring with the same setup. Certainly no double focused menu titles. The Pany also has a murmor sound, I think it's sick. :)

Ok.. Mine is a July 2005 box and I have 362, but I think someone has reported 360 in a July box. I hope I get to see the contouring via my H76 some day :rolleyes:

Some one else was seeing the contouring Pany/&H78 and asked me to look for it. Pany yes Oppo no.

The video levels from the S97 are not perfect. The only way I can reduce contouring to an acceptable level is to NOT adjust the brightness and contrast settings to uncrush BTB and WTVW info.

The defualt levels without BTW and WTW info are close to 16-235. Raising brightness and lowering contrast to show BTB and WTW info appears to compress the extra info into the 16-235 space and this causes the contouring, BTB now at digital 16 instead of below, To properly display video black at "16", brightness on the display now has to be lowered to expand the signal which does not eliminate the contouring problem but just moves it around.

Just a theory but I'm sure something like this is going on.

Hugh 2,

I agree with your post. Since having my set calibrated a few weeks ago and learning that my S97 was set up incorrectly I have be playing around with the settings as I am making notes before upgrading from firmware 540 to 541.

The calibrator set the S97 to contrast -4 and brightness +3. I saved the setting under "user 1" in the AVEhancer menu. When you use the AVEhancer, each press of the button advances you to the next setting (i.e. off, auto, user1, user2, user3).

What I found odd is that if you set the picture menu to Normal, instead of Cinema1/2, Animation or Dynamic the unit passes blacker than black and whiter than white information on its own. But as soon as you try to access the Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, Color or DNR controls to see what they are set at when the picture is "normal" the picture changes and you loose the BTB and WTW.

This is annoying because if I leave it on "normal" the picture is generally excellent, except with things like fog come into the picture. With fog I get banding showing up on my DLP, but when I hit the Sharpness button and set it to +3 the banding is gone. But so is the BTB, WTW.

I have also found that in the main setup menu the Black Level (lighter/darker) setting makes zero difference. I guess I am hoping that firmware version 541 will fix that. Has anyone noticed such a change?

Anyhow, I will keep on trying to see if I can get that combination to work. I am trying to take a bunch of notes on each of the players settings before and after the upgrade to 541 so I can share them after it is done. I'll post any significant findings.

Mike

I'm bummed because all the reviews rave about this player, but it doesn't deliver IMO.

I think I'm going to move upscale. I did demo a 3910 and everything was lush, smooth and rock solid. Maybe the new Pioneer or NAD...

Ken

I'm bummed because all the reviews rave about this player, but it doesn't deliver IMO.

I think I'm going to move upscale. I did demo a 3910 and everything was lush, smooth and rock solid. Maybe the new Pioneer or NAD...

Ken

To each, his own. But, for me the Pani produces a real fine picture on my set and that's the most timportant to me.

I'm bummed because all the reviews rave about this player, but it doesn't deliver IMO.

I think I'm going to move upscale. I did demo a 3910 and everything was lush, smooth and rock solid. Maybe the new Pioneer or NAD...

Ken
We all lied to get you to buy it. {:P {:P

Well, everyone could make it up to me by paypal'ing me a $1 a piece :)
Kris will have to pay $2 :)

There are definitely aspects of the image that are great, but macro blocking is much more bothersome to me than I expected and with players that don't have it why endure it?
I'm also having trouble getting my black level and shadow detail acceptable. And my user settings are not saved between power off/on.

Maybe 362 would help, but not sure where/how to get it, and with contouring problems being reported I'm not sure its worth it. I haven't noticed any contouring. (yet)

Ken

I tuned my display this morning with colorfacts and the S97. Results were excellent. No more red bias and the contouring/stepping got better, allot better. Nothing like this, this is another members gray ramp with the S97.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/panysteps.jpg

Take a look at a gray ramp pattern, see what you got.

Kenland,

The user settings can be saved, it is just a little confusing to locate. In the manual its on page 15 under Other Menu - AV Enhancer.

I agree about the black level part though. I am torn between thinking its the S97 that is the problem or the TV. Especially since I am using a HDMI to HDMI connection. I would have thought the data would just roll off the disk and into the TV in pure digital perfection. Now that I have had the TV calibrated I don't want to adjust it. Before I just left the player as it was and adjusted the TV. I was pretty sure that I was getting BTB out of the box, but now I don't know.

AksStp,

Thanks for pointing that out (the lighter/darker setting being active only on component). I should have remembered that from the manual and from the first post in the thread.

Mike

guitarman,

Re: The picture of the other members gray ramp.

What kind of display was that person using. What kind are you using (I'm not familiar with the model number you listed in an earlier post) CRT projector, LCD, DLP, front projector?

Just curious as that ramp didn't look too bad compared to the ramp on a DLP.

Mike

Guitarman,

The contouring evident in the photo replicates what I'd get anytime the brightness or contrast settings were modified from the "normal" default which does not pass BTB or WTW.

Going with the "normal" picture mode smooths out the ramps except for some banding as you approach black.

What did you end up with for brightness and contrast after calibration?

Mr Paw,

You must have the TV type set as projection as this is the only setting which passes the extremes when in "normal" picture mode. I've set tv mode to direct (standard) and with this the picture mode "normal" exactly replicates the User settings all set to zero.

My picture is excellent with little contouring when not passing the btb or wtw information, as this BTB/WTW manipulation is screwing with the signal "more" and causing contouring.

Perhaps I have a semi-faulty unit.

guitarman,

Re: The picture of the other members gray ramp.

What kind of display was that person using. What kind are you using (I'm not familiar with the model number you listed in an earlier post) CRT projector, LCD, DLP, front projector?

Just curious as that ramp didn't look too bad compared to the ramp on a DLP.

Mike
I think that Guitarman was referring to me.

I'm using Optoma H78 + S97. I'm getting pretty bad stepping in the gray scale ramps, but i just read someone in this thread saying that using S97 brightness / contrast controls to enable BTB and WTW cause stepping. I need to try out tonight if it helps.

I post two screenshots to show what problem is.

Dvi.jpg is S97 standard mode and H78 in video mode. S97 brightness is +1, contrast is -1, sharpness is +3 and color is +3 in this screenshot.

Component.jpg is with same projector but different DVD-player outputting progressive component (showing BTB and WTW). As you can see, there's no stepping at all in the gray scale ramp.

Big Lebowski and Hugh2,

I was up until 3 last night after tweaking after reading Hugh2's suggestion of Direct View CRT in the initial setup and then setting the player to "normal". I used the end of chapter 11 of The Village because there is a bunch of rolling fog in the background. I also used the DVE gray ramp as a benchmark. Must have switched back and forth 30 times last night.

I was formerly set up with Projection TV as the TV choice in the initial setup. I then had the S97 adjusted (by the fellow who calibrated my TV) to Brightness +2 and Contrast -4. I think that was done to just barely see the BTB and WTW parts of the digital signal. This way it would "mimic" a CRT. (My set is a Panny 60"DLP).

The problem I was having was that the test signals looked great but I am the only one in the family that enjoys watching them. On the referenced chapter in The Village the fog showed all sorts of false contouring (or posterization, or banding, or whatever you want to call it). Now it looks the way fog should look. I even tried Sky Captian and it finally looks right too.

Well now after all of this trial and error I can't believe that the best picture is to do what Hugh2 suggested. Set it to Direct View CRT and Normal. Then leave it alone.

I also re-read the Go to Guide for Source Options sticky on the first page of this forum. It was a good reminder of what you were supposed to and not supposed to see in the video signal.

Hugh2, I guess that the S97, when set the way you suggested is setting an appropriate black level for your display. If I adjust the brightness and contrast I can still get it to show me the BTB bars on the Pluge but you aren't really supposed to be seeing them anyway in real life material.

Big Lebowski thanks for the pictures. The only other thing I haven't tried is a component connection. I didn't want to loose the upconversion to 720p. I think I will try it know anyway but have to get an extra set of component cables first.

Mike

I think that Guitarman was referring to me.

I'm using Optoma H78 + S97. I'm getting pretty bad stepping in the gray scale ramps, but i just read someone in this thread saying that using S97 brightness / contrast controls to enable BTB and WTW cause stepping. I need to try out tonight if it helps.

I post two screenshots to show what problem is.

Dvi.jpg is S97 standard mode and H78 in video mode. S97 brightness is +1, contrast is -1, sharpness is +3 and color is +3 in this screenshot.

Component.jpg is with same projector but different DVD-player outputting progressive component (showing BTB and WTW). As you can see, there's no stepping at all in the gray scale ramp.

Probably display related when using DVI. Is everybody seeing what Lebowski is seeing in gray ramps? I can see a little stepping it's very faint, I can see it on the Pany and also now see it on the Oppo. It's not like Lebowski's stepping. I'll get a screen shot of it later.

Lebowski, you might try having your gray ramp going while adjusting CWI in the service menu of the Optoma. CWI = color wheel index. This item can cut down the contouring.

If you don't know - looking at the optoma from the back to the front, the four buttons in a row, hit the left two and the far right one at the same time. Write down your stock CWI number first. Don't mess with anything else in their you could have problems.
I'll try this also tonight.

Probably display related when using DVI. Is everybody seeing what Lebowski is seeing in gray ramps? I can see a little stepping it's very faint, I can see it on the Pany and also now see it on the Oppo. It's not like Lebowski's stepping. I'll get a screen shot of it later.

Last night i did some experiments and i got gray scale ramps much smoother.

Panny has some "evil" settings hidden under harmless looking names!
First one is not to use brightness or contrast setting, actually just activating user setting instead of normal causes some stepping. Most problematic setting is TV type. When i first setup my S97 i of course set it to "LCD TV / projector" as it was what my setup is. Last night i tried to set it to "standard (direct view TV)" and i immediately noticed how gray scale ramps got smoother. Also different TV type settings have different gamma curves. Standard has much better looking gamma compared to LCD TV/projector.

Setting up TV type as standard didn't bring WTW and BTB visible, but it made both ends of the gray scale much closer to what they supposed to be, so i was able to set up contrast and brightness correctly without touching brightness or contrast settings in S97. Is there any reason why we need BTB and WTW beside calibrating? Shadow detail is great now even without BTB. Contrast setting i have always set so that WTW isn't visible after calibration.


Lebowski, you might try having your gray ramp going while adjusting CWI in the service menu of the Optoma. CWI = color wheel index. This item can cut down the contouring.

If you don't know - looking at the optoma from the back to the front, the four buttons in a row, hit the left two and the far right one at the same time. Write down your stock CWI number first. Don't mess with anything else in their you could have problems.
I'll try this also tonight.
I need to try CWI too. I know this setting, i have adjusted it when i first got my projector.

I don't think CWI will do much now because i cannot see any contouring. I checked U571 (triggers job) scene, there was not problem.

I think there is some stepping in gray scale ramps with DVI always with Optoma since DVI port is probably using only 8 bit processing. I noticed that adjusting Optoma settings did move steps in gray ramps. I seem to recall that i saw some steps with HTPC i tried a while back. I can't get DVI gray scale ramps 100% smooth as they are when using progressive component.

Lebowski,

I'm glad your picture is looking better. It is frustrating that we are just figuring this out now after such a long thread. It seems Panny could have done some of us a favour and just left the detailed settings hidden in a service menu.

Is there any reason why we need BTB and WTW beside calibrating? Shadow detail is great now even without BTB.

I kinda feel the same way. It seems that calibrating is all about setting up limits and making sure that the full dynamic range of the digital video signal is getting to the display because you end up hiding the BTB anyway.

By the way, how did you measure the gamma changes? I am a little concerned about that because my set was recently calibrated and the gamma was good before the change from "projector" to "direct view".

By the way, how did you measure the gamma changes? I am a little concerned about that because my set was recently calibrated and the gamma was good before the change from "projector" to "direct view".
I looked at gray scale ramp and i noticed that mid tones looked different. Shadow detail seemed also improved, even now i cannot get BTB visible. That's why i think gamma curve must be different.

It may have done something to colors too.
Also high IRE red push was eliminated after TV type setting change.

After reading all of these posts I'm a little confused. If I'm understanding correctly, the suggestion is to set TV Type to Direct View/CRT and leave the picture mode on Normal? And doing this doesn't pass BTB or WTW but results in a better picture?

Interesting finding. Seems that after months and months of reading through this thread that pretty much everyone has advocated using the S97's brightness and contrast controls to get the proper picture and now that may not be the case.

I've been having issues w/ my S97 lately (very noisy artifacts on most DVDs) and got an Oppo the other day to see how that performs w/ my Samsung DLP. So far I like the Oppo a lot (problem scenes on the S97 look fine or much much better on the Oppo) but I will try out these new settings on the S97 and see if I notice any improvement. Obviously I'd prefer to keep the S97 and can return the Oppo. However I had my display ISF'd a few weeks ago (w/ the S97 as my dvd player) and really wanted to make adjustments on the player rather than the display as the HDMI and DVI inputs share settings and my HD STB (DVI) is looking amazing right now.

After reading all of these posts I'm a little confused. If I'm understanding correctly, the suggestion is to set TV Type to Direct View/CRT and leave the picture mode on Normal? And doing this doesn't pass BTB or WTW but results in a better picture?

Those are the settings on my system which I feel give the least amount of banding and it appears one other person has determined the same. These settings will not produce a better picture for all so it may be premature to draw conclusions at this point.


I've been having issues w/ my S97 lately (very noisy artifacts on most DVDs) and got an Oppo the other day to see how that performs w/ my Samsung DLP. So far I like the Oppo a lot (problem scenes on the S97 look fine or much much better on the Oppo) but I will try out these new settings on the S97 and see if I notice any improvement. Obviously I'd prefer to keep the S97 and can return the Oppo. However I had my display ISF'd a few weeks ago (w/ the S97 as my dvd player) and really wanted to make adjustments on the player rather than the display as the HDMI and DVI inputs share settings and my HD STB (DVI) is looking amazing right now.

Sometimes I feel there is excess noise from the S97 but then I watch stuff like The Incredibles and other Pixar releases and it becomes very apparent that noise is probably not an artifact of the Panny.

At this point my biggest gripe is that somewhere along the way of firmware upgrades vertical edge enhacement was added which is causing some shimmering on vertical lines at 480p. This artifact is just as annoying as contouring and I doubt firmware will be released to reduce it.

I was trying to watch Aliens tonight and it was MB city! So I decided to experiment.

I made the following changes:
- set the display type to CRT although I use an NEC HT1000 pj
- On the Other Menu, set AV Enhancer to Off
- Picture Menu: Picture Mode=Cinema2, Output=720p, Transfer Mode=Auto 2, RGB

I was surprised to find that most of the MB has been eliminated! I checked with Lost in Space, Chapter 2, and the clouds show much less MB...

I am very pleased :D I do not know if this will work for others...

EDIT: I now recommend a CRT Projector setting. I saw some shimmering with the CRT Display setting (as posted further down).

Well I played around w/ the Standard/CRT + Normal setting and while the artifacts I'm seeing are slightly improved they are still definitely there (best example - Lost in Translation @ 2:45 into the movie; look at the walls in the background - all kinds of noise). If you look at the DVE test patterns, BTB does not pass and on the reverse gray ramps there is definite clipping of the whites. I think I still like the Oppo's picture better. I know test patterns aren't everything but it's certainly nice to have a properly calibrated player (esp. since I just sprung for a calibration).

At the end of the day it's pretty tough to compare the PQ using the various settings on the Panny b/c you have to stop the disc, go into the setup menu and change the TV type and then change the picture settings from User (+1, -5 in my case) to Normal.

Does anyone know the difference b/t the various preset picture modes - Normal, Cinema 1, 2, etc? The S97's manual is pretty awful at explaining the numerous features on this unit and most importantly how they interact w/ one another.

I have noticed that in the last page or so of posts that we are all playing around with different settings and theorizing about the introduction of different artifacts to the picture. Perhaps to keep it all easier to follow we should state which version of the firmware we are running and perhaps even the date of manufacture of the S97 in each post.

This way someone following along may be able to avoid making a change that they do not feel is desirable.

I will start by stating I have a Sept 2004 build with ver 540.

or

09/04v540

I am interested in Hugh2's firmware version because he noticed vertical edge enhancement at 480p. I run mine at 720p and notice it in some scenes but not in others.

Rich4av - I have noticed less macroblocking as well. I will pick up a copy of Star Wars Attack of the Clones to look at the emperor's office. For me that red office really is a problem.

EricScott - I am just as frustrated as you in that I have had the calibration done and thought it was as good as I could get. Some members say that you don't want to see the BTB bars on the gray ramp. My calibrationist said you do, but just barely. But he also said that the ultimate test was watching DVDs and Hi Def TV, not test patterns.

I think I am going to write the tech people at Panasonic. They have always answered my questions in the past. Perhaps they have some kind of techical matrix that better explains what is happening to each setting when you select the TV type in the set-up screen, and what the differences are between Normal, Cinema 1 etc..

Mike 09/04v540

EricScott - I am just as frustrated as you in that I have had the calibration done and thought it was as good as I could get. Some members say that you don't want to see the BTB bars on the gray ramp. My calibrationist said you do, but just barely. But he also said that the ultimate test was watching DVDs and Hi Def TV, not test patterns.


I have v. 541 and my player was built in Sept. 2004.

The person who calibrated my display also told me that you should just barely be able to make out the BTB bar (very very fain though) on a DLP (which is what I'm using).

I agree that it's most important to be satisfied w/ the material you are actually watching as opposed to test patterns but there really is no other way to determine if your picture is "accurate" w/o the patterns. So if I can get a pleasing picture and have accurate test patterns, which so far is the case w/ the Oppo then that's ideal.

I'm just really trying to find a way to make the S97 work as the Oppo is lacking some convenience features which I will miss (e.g. position memory, ability to display remaining time on the LED display (you can display it on the screen), etc) plus I can return the Oppo but I'm stuck w/ the S97. If I do go w/ the Oppo I will probably ebay the S97 or move it to the LCD in my bedroom.

Mine if v541, Sept 2004 build date as well. From re-reading Paul Bigelows first post it appears that he noted edge ehancement on 480p from the beginning. Sounds like it was always there but I'm certain this issue became more evident around the time I installed v540.

I'm a little perplexed at the opinions of your calibrators that BTB should be visible. This would mean that video black (the darkest black in the signal) will be shown at the screen lighter than the darkest black your pj can produce. contrast ratio is not maximized.

We're these calibrators ISF certified?

I'm a little perplexed at the opinions of your calibrators that BTB should be visible. This would mean that video black (the darkest black in the signal) will be shown at the screen lighter than the darkest black your pj can produce. contrast ratio is not maximized.

We're these calibrators ISF certified?

Eliab Alvarez calibrated my display and is an extremely well respected (and certified) calibrator. He said that on a DLP that you should just barely (barely barely) be able to see the outermost bar on the pluge pattern. I'm talking you need to get about 6 inches from the screen and even then it should more or less blend into the background but should be barely visible. From a normal viewing distance it's tough to see. This is counter to the instructions on the disc which tell you to lower brightness one notch after just seeing the BTB bar. But I think those instructions apply more to CRTs than DLPs.

Please someone correct my explanation if I'm wrong, but Eliab definitely knows what he's doing.

Mine is also V. 541, September 2004.

Eric - I saw the artifacts as well, some flickering on Gladiator scenes with vertical lines. I set the S97 to CRT Projector and the flickering went away. Go figure.

I set my projector to an SRGB preset and the picture looks great and I get BTB.

Hi Rich,
I was testing the S97 with the HT1000 this morning. I do set to CRT/projector already but here's a good test. I wanted to see which resolution works best with the 1024X768 chipped projector. Panic Room at the opening panning building shots, just after the words Panic Room apprear there's two tall buildings in the right forground, panning towards the left. In 720 there was a heavy shimmer pattern on the buildings, in 1080i it was perfectly clean doing it's Faroudja thing correctly. I'd use 1080i on the Pany with the HT1000, it may be the same for other 1024X768 chips also.

It's a good thing the S97 has color saturation. Comes in handy with Avia blue bars pattern. To make the two lower outer boxes match up in color darkness with the least flashing above I put Saturation at plus 3. I also have some graysale numbers I'll get the next time my PJ is on.

Eliab Alvarez calibrated my display and is an extremely well respected (and certified) calibrator. He said that on a DLP that you should just barely (barely barely) be able to see the outermost bar on the pluge pattern. I'm talking you need to get about 6 inches from the screen and even then it should more or less blend into the background but should be barely visible. From a normal viewing distance it's tough to see. This is counter to the instructions on the disc which tell you to lower brightness one notch after just seeing the BTB bar. But I think those instructions apply more to CRTs than DLPs.

Please someone correct my explanation if I'm wrong, but Eliab definitely knows what he's doing.

If you can make out the BTB bar, even ever so slightly, that means that the "video black" background is dithering and not producing the deepest black possible. Interesting, perhaps he's calibrating to what is noticeable from the seating position or possible setting up the system for some overshooting of the black signal. Generally, on a dlp, black level is set when video black stops dithering and this is just when the BTB bar blends with the background.

I just read a post of Eliabs where he indicates his business partner is a friend of Stacy Spears, this maybe relevant as I once read a post by Stacy where feels many videos overshoot the black levels therefore, perhaps, Eliab is of same mind and he'setting up the pj to so this intended to be viewed information is viewable.

Guitarman - I'll gladly try your settings ;)

Regarding using the S97 presets - once you change any settings (including saturation etc.) you are automatially put into User mode. To reduce MB, I need to leave the S97 with the settings I posted earlier with no color or contrast/brightness adjustments. All adjustments must be done on the HT1000.

When I was playing around with the HT1000 settings, I was impressed by the SRGB preset.

I do not own Panic Room... I use 720p because the HT1000 overscans 5% on 1080i DVI inputs...

Is the shimmering you mention similar to what I saw on Gladiator, and it looked like the CRT Projector setting on the S97 fixed it... (Check out the chapter where Maximus is standing in front of Commodus' body in the Coloseum, surrounded by a circle of soldiers. Commodus' body flickers up and down in the CRT TV setting....)

If you can make out the BTB bar, even ever so slightly, that means that the "video black" background is dithering and not producing the deepest black possible. Interesting, perhaps he's calibrating to what is noticeable from the seating position or possible setting up the system for some overshooting of the black signal. Generally, on a dlp, black level is set when video black stops dithering and this is just when the BTB bar blends with the background.

I just read a post of Eliabs where he indicates his business partner is a friend of Stacy Spears, this maybe relevant as I once read a post by Stacy where feels many videos overshoot the black levels therefore, perhaps, Eliab is of same mind and he'setting up the pj to so this intended to be viewed information is viewable.

Unfortunately I'm no expert on this and I certainly don't want to try to explain what Eliab was trying to do. What I do know is that he is an extremely well respected and experienced calibrator and I have no doubt that he knows what he's doing.

Also, when I talk about the outermost bar being visible, it does basically blend into the background. If you are more than a foot away you can't see it at all but if you get up right in front of the screen you can see a smoother pattern where the bar should be as compared to the background around it. It's not a case where you can clearly make out the bar.

Ok the S97 is now officially driving me insane :) There are so many damn permutations of settings and I'm really having a tough time deciding which looks best. I've tried Standard TV Type w/ Normal, Cinema 1 and User (+1 brightness/ - 5 contrast). I've also tried Projection TV w/ all three settings and even tried CRT Projector w/ all three settings. I'm really starting to lose it.

My calibrationist was Michael TLV. I understand him to be well respected in his field as well. I don't think that anyone is really certified by the ISF but that is beyond the scope of this tread.

What surprised me was the calibration of the display to the DVD player. I would have thought they would use a signal generator to ensure consistency from set to set. However I am still happy with what he did.

I wrote a lengthy email to Panasonic today. We'll have to see what they say, but normally I get good responses from them.

I'll paste it in here. If anyone else has a question for them I will happily add it on to my reply back to them if you wish...

Hello,

I have a question about the DVD S97 player. I am running firmware version 540 and I am contemplating an upgrade to 541, which I understand is the latest version.

The problem is I don't want to change if I can't tell what is going to happen first.

Do you have a summary of the changes that version 541 addresses? Preferably in advanced terms rather than "improves picture" or something vague like that.

Also, do you have a summary of what specific adjustments to the player's settings are made internally when you select the various TV types in the setup menu?

And finally, do you have a summary of the adjustments made internally when you select "normal, cinema1, cinema2, dynamic, animation" in the picture menu?

The problem I have found in trying to figure this out myself is that as soon as I hit the contrast, brightness or sharpness buttons I am immediately taken out of the previous "mode" and I am now in User mode. I just want to be able to tell what level the contrast and brightness, gamma and all the other settings are set at when I choose Normal, Cinema1 or whatever. This way I have an easier time copying that into a User mode and then adjusting it for my own preferences.

If you have technical spec sheets or something of that nature and you don't mind faxing them then please do.

Thanks for clearing this up for me.

Mike

I'll let you all know what response I get.

Mike

Ok the S97 is now officially driving me insane :) There are so many damn permutations of settings and I'm really having a tough time deciding which looks best. I've tried Standard TV Type w/ Normal, Cinema 1 and User (+1 brightness/ - 5 contrast). I've also tried Projection TV w/ all three settings and even tried CRT Projector w/ all three settings. I'm really starting to lose it.

Eric, I went the HTPC route for 3 years. Lemme tell you, the S97's permutations are nothing compared to an HTPC :) Be patient as we all figure this out!

Eric, I went the HTPC route for 3 years. Lemme tell you, the S97's permutations are nothing compared to an HTPC :) Be patient as we all figure this out!

Yeah I can imagine. Well I have about 3 weeks to decide for sure while I can still return the Oppo. Right now I'm leaning towards keeping it b/c I like the picture. But if I can get satisfied w/ the S97 I'll be a happy camper.

I have noticed that in the last page or so of posts that we are all playing around with different settings and theorizing about the introduction of different artifacts to the picture. Perhaps to keep it all easier to follow we should state which version of the firmware we are running and perhaps even the date of manufacture of the S97 in each post.

Mine is April 2005 build with ver. 362 firmware.

I think many of the specific settings reported over the past week are so display dependent as to be almost useless for comparative purposes. For example I have my s-97 (541) set at projection and find I pass BTB on the dve pluge at -1 with contrast at 0. I rarely see any macroblocking or contouring since 536. When Michael TLV calibrates dvd players like many calibrators he is trying to find the optimum blended settings for both display and player so I would not get too excited because the contrast/brightness settings are far off 0 setting. But I am inspired now to go back into the settings and test the other avenhancer settings to see if I can tweak additional shadow detail.

Mine is April 2005 build with ver. 362 firmware.

Same here, April 2005 with 362. Fine machine

Agreed. Finest dvd player I have ever owned and no comparison with any similiarly priced player. The only player I have seen which is a step up would be the Denon 3910 and you have to look pretty hard to tell the difference. The 2910 is below the s-97 PQ.

After reading your questions, have you thought that the problem may be with the DVD Player. Have you tried other DVD players? I just had Eliab(who by the way has calibrated my sets since 2001) calibrate my Sony VPL-HS20 Front projector with the new Oppo player and could not be happier. This is the best my projector has looked hands down, bar none. I was running a RP-56, which is now religated to my upstairs RPTV which also has been calibrated. Having vast experience with the ISF tech you have mentioned, I would trust his evaluations of your situation and his professional opinion. While certain test disc work great for basic calibration, the tools Eliab uses are much more accurate than viewing a disc by eye. While using these disc are a great start, nothing can match the eye of a professionally trained ISF calibrator.


Mark

Just a question for anyone out there. Is it me or has anyone noticed a significant decline in over all picture vibrance with the new 541/362 firmware. I've seen both on their perspective built players and I just don't think the quality of color is nearly as good as it was with the 540 firmware. Comments would be appreciated.

Just a question for anyone out there. Is it me or has anyone noticed a significant decline in over all picture vibrance with the new 541/362 firmware. I've seen both on their perspective built players and I just don't think the quality of color is nearly as good as it was with the 540 firmware. Comments would be appreciated.

Yeah, I really want to read a good respond for this. I downloaded the firmware but have no gut to upgrade my yet.

I haven't noticed any change to colour.

I was in contact with the tech people at Panasonic Canada and they said that the version 541 and 362 was for machines in Europe and Australia to solve the PAL issues they were having. There weren't supposed to be any other changes.

Mike

Perhaps HDMI - HDMI there are no visible changes, however there was definately a change in contrast and color when I upgraded to the 541. Reds looked fine if not a little "pinky" but blues and greens just didn't have the same zip as they did with the 536 and 540. I noticed the change using both component and HDMI-DVI.

I just picked up this DVD player too - lots of pink in Sin City, with the 541 firmware! Arrrgh. Also, I can't get BTB unless I set player brightness to +1 (and white clipping is avoided with contrast at -1).

Very disappointing - but then again badly mastered anime should perform better than my HTPC.

So far, my HTPC has better PQ. Interestingly, there is slight frame drop/repeats with the S97 because of the Benq 8700+ bug in DVI where it locks into 60.00 hz instead of 59.94 hz. My HTPC avoids this since I can output 60.00 hz with it - but with microstutter. One step forward, one step back. :)

Is it possible for me to go back to 540, to see if the pinkiness goes away?

BTW, this is a nice player - hmmm, I wonder if the Oppo has pink?

Those brightness/contrast settings are what I use as well. No big deal. People who use displays other than projectors have different settings. One of the features I like about this player is all this flexibility for tweaking to conform with ones display.

I first noticed that very slight pink when updating to 541 last seen in v536 which is why I have suggested anybody on 540 should stay there. Even though I know its there from the greyscale ramps I really have to look for it to notice it. Also I think it may be more isolated to projectors for some reason.

I had an S97 with the 541 firmware and a July built unit with the 362 firmware. Same issues with the colors being off. Being extremely unhappy with the results I returned my S97 to J&R for a refund and purchased the Oppo player from amazon.com. Couldn't be happier! This amazing little player cured almost 99.9% of the issues I had with any firmware version on the S97. I have a Panasonic 47wx53 CRT RPTV which has been prone to macroblocking regardless of the input I use. The Oppo has virtually eliminated all macroblocking and is better at this then any player I've owned (RP56, DMR E80H, S97). The best way to describe the picture is "smooth as silk." I am using the picture settings right out of the box and the colors are great. BTB's and WTW's are perfect. Better than I've ever seen on my television. I believe the audio is also a little better than the S97. DVI - DVI the Oppo rocks, at least in my situation. I was skeptical about the Oppo, having never heard of the company, and I've owned nothing but Panasonic DVD players.

I'm still on 540, and Sin City didn't look pink at all. Lots of "red" but not much pink. I was trying to notice artifacting, but also got caught up in the movie.

Hmmm, I think I almost made a mistake purchasing this player. I cannot return for a refund, only exchange - no one else in the city has this player which is why I took the risk. On the other hand, I could sell it on ebay (just being careful not to mention the pink problem and strange ringing on DVE APL/grayscale test patterns). Well, at least I can watch colorful non-B&W anime without the hideous combing and line shimmering anymore. ;) :)

I hope the pink is not apparent in IRE window patterns, otherwise it would be impossible to properly calibrate my projector with this player.

Currently, my HTPC gives the most accurate picture - I have better control over player display settings because I can verify RGB values with Photoshop or some other paint program - something that is impossible with a DVI/HDMI DVD player.

Maybe I can try going back to 540. Is there a way to result all settings to defaults manually? Perhaps when I went from 528 to 540, it didn't reset all settings, leaving my S97 in Barbie mode?

EDIT: Well, I didn't really make a mistake, because the S97 blew away a friend of mine when I previewed it on his LCD RPTV - so maybe I can sell it to him if the pink gorillas don't go away. :)

I have a May 2005 S97S with 86H360 firmware, I purchased it from Vanns.com. I'm using it with a Sanyo Z2 and trying to figure out the best settings for contrast, brightness, gamma, etc... What is frustrating is that you have the settins on the Z2, and the settings on the Panny. I have read many threads on the best users settings in the Z2, but then if you adjust the Panny, that affects the picture as well. What is a guy supposed to do?

Anyway, is there a newer firmware version (362?) I should consider getting, with any known fixs?

Thanks, Randy

One thing I forgot to mention is that it appears whenever I watch something over the HDMI/DVI connection, it appears I have a small border all the way around the picture, that is not present with Component. Not sure what you call it, but it drives me nuts.

Sirquack, I suggest you don't upgrade the firmware yet until you finish calibrating - once you have it the way you want it, you can then look for other things. There have been mixed reports about pinkish colorcasts in B&W movies (such as most of Sin City) with the latest firmware. Some people report it is less, but others report there is more. I believe the 362/541 firmware is supposed to fix PAL support only - so I wouldn't bother for the time being.

On my 1280x720 DLP projector, with an HDMI->DVI connection, and upscaling to 720p or 1080i, I have a small border around the screen - approx. 7 or 8 pixels on the left and the right sides, and about 4-5 pixels on the top and bottom. I haven't checked 480p over DVI yet.

You might want to check the S97 FAQ/Braindump (the last 2 pages or so) for some (lengthy) findings on setting Contrast and Brightness for the player.

Hi. I recently purchased a S97 and the firmware version is 85E528. Is this is latest upgrade? I have the Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY and I just hooked it up yesterday and saw a lot of microblocking and some of the faces on people looked excessively red/pink. Any input would be appreciated.

Ken

Look at the first post. :)

I suggest trying version 536 first, then 540, then 541 - in that order. You CANNOT go back to an earlier version, so be careful...

Look at the first post. :)

I suggest trying version 536 first, then 540, then 541 - in that order. You CANNOT go back to an earlier version, so be careful...

Hi Maxleung. I will take your advice. Have you successfully done any upgrades yourself? I assume all the instructions are in the downloaded files.

BTW, $300.00 is actually a pretty good price for your player if you got it in AB. They retail for about USD$270.00 + shipping so that is already more that what you paid.

Ken

I upgraded straight to 541 from the original 528 - big mistake I think - I should have done what I just suggested to you. :)

Some people report seeing more pink issues with the 540 and 541 upgrade from 536. Some report less pink issues going from 536 to 540. And then when they went from 540 to 541, the pink issues came back. I'll never know now if I would have been happy with 536! Oops.

Yeah, you're probably right about the price - after exchange rate from the US it seems I got a good deal!

I had been ready a bunch of posts on this topic and some people say 540 and 541 are great and others say the opposite. The big mystery is whether the next one will improve what you currently have. 540 could be a huge improvement and then 541 (thinking it might get better) actually makes it worse. I'll do it in steps just to see the differences.

May I ask what settings you are using? It's really tough to find the S97 anywhere and many dealers have it backordered.

I have my S97 set up as follows:

Display type set to Projection TV (from the player setup menu)
Contrast -1
Brightness +1
Everything else at zero, also occasionally have Depth Enhance at +1
720p output
4:3 Aspect set to Auto

That's it - nothing too fancy at all.

Thanks Maxleung, so far the combination of my Z2 and S97S are producing a very nice picture. I've got my Z2 user settings about where I like them, so I may try playing around with the Panny's stuff as well. In regards to the cropping/overscanning whatever you want to call it, my findings are that at 720p the border is the most obvious, 1080i is slightly narrower, followed by 480p(over HDMI) being only a few pixels wide around the image. Over Component, I don't believe there is any problems, and it does look very nice as well.

I have come across a few other posts where members mention this issue, but really have not heard of a solution. Not sure if there is some way to adjust for the overscan problem.

thanks, Randy

I have my S97 set up as follows:

Display type set to Projection TV (from the player setup menu)
Contrast -1
Brightness +1
Everything else at zero, also occasionally have Depth Enhance at +1
720p output
4:3 Aspect set to Auto

That's it - nothing too fancy at all.

Thanks. I'll see what I come up with but it's nice to see your's as a reference.

I have my S97 set up as follows:

Display type set to Projection TV (from the player setup menu)
Contrast -1
Brightness +1
Everything else at zero, also occasionally have Depth Enhance at +1
720p output
4:3 Aspect set to Auto

That's it - nothing too fancy at all.

Just wish to clarify when within the "USER" menu "DISPLAY TYPE" has no effect on the image. Display type activates when in "NORMAL" or the other preset modes.

I burned the firmware upgrade 540 to a CD-R and put it into my player. The screen flickered a bit and the player said it was loading/reading the disc. The screen flickered for about 7 seconds and then I got the screen that said "Completed. Please eject the disc." I did not get the opening screen that says "This player needs the update. Do you wan to do update?". It seems to have assumed I wanted it and started updating automatically. The sceen on the DVD player said "Good", which seems correct. I tried to see the firmware version on the Setup screen but it would not display it. The firmware version that is shown on my player's screen said 86H360. The firmware I had before I put the CD-R in was 85E528.

I'm confused. The upgrade did not go like it was described in the instructions on the first thread. Has my player been updated? I did not have time to watch anything yet so I do not know if the microblocking has gone away. I did notice that all the setting have been reset to factory default so something happened.

Anyone had this happen or do you know why this happened? Any input would be appreciated. Thank you.

Ken

That is strange - the 86H360 should only be for the players with the newer hardware (ie. April 2005 build and later I think). If yours was previously 85E528, then it should have been an 85E firmware! I do know that the 541 firmware update file also includes the 362 firmware for the 86H hardware.

Yes it is strange...the hardware cannot change. Regardless of the hardware version, my player is processing the firmware upgrade as it should. I've read a bunch on posts on this thread and it seems to work for everyone else. I'm having some bad luck. I'll try posting this in the S97 Brain Dump thread and see if anyone has any ideas.

Well I just updated my DVD player to version 40 firmware update. Im still curious about what the the latest version 41 thats out there (any one tried it yet...let me know) do. Update was quick and easy, only did it once. Anyways, macroblocking was reduced for me quite a bit, I would say by about 75%. Still there, but doesnt fill my dam screen like it used to. :rolleyes:

Not a Home Theater System Yet.... :(

Sharp Aquos 37-GD4U
Panasonic S97s (HDMI)
Monster Cable AVS-2000 SS
Monster Cable HTPS-7000 SS

Anyone know if the latest firmware will work on a DVD-s77?

Help

Just tried a f/w upgrade (528 to 536). I burned the file to a blank Memorex CD-R and checked the file as instructed and everything seemed ok, even opened the file with wordpad, no problems.

After the player read the disk, it said this type of disc cannot be played. Problem is when I try to eject the disk, the player reads open but the tray remains closed. Cycling and removing power has not helped. Is there an override of any type for tray lock, mechanical or otherwise, any ideas? I seem to be the only one to experience this.

I'm OK now. Found Sangos (thanks man!) panel reset sequence in the FAQ thread and it worked to release the tray. Player seems to be responding properly now. Will try a new disc burn.

Updated first post to include noation fot the 362 firmware for the 360 line.

Paul

Updated first post to include noation fot the 362 firmware for the 360 line.

Paul

That's great. Thanks Paul.

How do I know to use 541 or 362?

Thanks

Mike

The player will figure it out automatically. If you have the newer build of the player, it will know to extract the 362 firmware, otherwise it will use the 541.

Hey there chaps,

First post on these here forums.

I live in the UK (unfortunately) and went on a short trip to London to pick up one of the last Panasonic S97's on sale over here.

Now ive read a lot of the posts regarding updating firmware to cure macroblocking issues.
I do believe I am experiencing macroblocking on my projector, so am eager to update my firmware, however im a bit lost as to how to go about doing it.

My machine is a Sept 2004 model.

I take it from reading the posts that I need firmware 536 / 540 / 541...

How do you burn the firmware onto the disk, is there any special data mode you have to use, do you have to finalise the disk etc?

I am just checking all the details as I don't want to bugger this machine if possible...!

Cheers chaps,

Sal.

Try firmware 536 first. The details should be covered in the first post of this thread. BTW, you should edit your post and remove your serial number - not a good idea to post that on the net. :)

Hey there again, OK it seems pretty straightforward.

One question though, my machine is multi-region enabling me to play disks from all regions, does this firmware update "reset" this setting back to a locked Region 2 player?

My current firmware is 528.

Try burning the firmware using Nero as a normal data file.

Salamander, the reports are that the update does not change the region setting.

Paul

Hey it worked great!

I was worrying about nothing!

I have updated to 536 with no problems at all, the update freaked me out a bit, I thought at one point it was all going awry, but it all good!

536 has improved my image quality a fair bit, a lot less blocking on the screen by a fair margin over the original 528.

I'm now wondering if its worth going to 541, are there any advantages over 536?

Updated first post to include noation fot the 362 firmware for the 360 line.

Paul

Paul - Do you think it is worth explaining why there is a 360 line for this player now and how it relates to the 540 line? For example, is the 360 line from a particular build date and why did they create a 2nd line? You might also want to explain that the 541 firmware upgrade file also contains the 362 upgrade file (and that 362 is equivalent to the 541).

I don't know how many people have the 360 line but I think it is a bit confusing topic. This is just a suggestion but it would make the tread a bit more complete. Thanks.

I'm OK now. Found Sangos (thanks man!) panel reset sequence in the FAQ thread and it worked to release the tray. Player seems to be responding properly now. Will try a new disc burn.

Can someone please point me to the panel reset sequence? Thanks.