Good question. I think it is about the same. Text in the setup menus might be a little blockier - very slightly less ringing at 720p? Hard to say.

What about sharpness with new FW. Better, worse or no change?


I went from 360 to 364 in FW rev. Didn't see any change in sharpness.
Been a few weeks now since the upgrade and I'm happy with the switch.

-t

I guys... I'm an italian user and i have bought this players (for my VPR Sanyo Z4) some months ago...
Now i would upgrade the firmware so I would know what is the best firmware for this players and what are the changes from the previous release!! thanks!!

Sim

PS: my firmware is the 86H364 (as i could see on the fluorescent display using the method: Press and hold on the player the buttons "PAUSE" + "OPEN" and press the "7" button on the remote)

'NDIAMOOOO RAGAZZI!!!

Sim, it seems you have the latest firmware.

'NDIAMOOOO RAGAZZI!!!

Looking great yesterday. Forza Azzurri!! :D

hey guys, i read this player plays PAL but when I put in a PAL disc, my tv shows a black and white picture oddly shifted. I have an old panasonic 27" crt tv from around 1998. Will the PAL discs not display properly because it's an older tv or do I have to update my firmware on the dvd player? Thanks

hey guys, i read this player plays PAL but when I put in a PAL disc, my tv shows a black and white picture oddly shifted. I have an old panasonic 27" crt tv from around 1998. Will the PAL discs not display properly because it's an older tv or do I have to update my firmware on the dvd player? Thanks

Maybe you need a PAL TV?? :confused:

hey guys, i read this player plays PAL but when I put in a PAL disc, my tv shows a black and white picture oddly shifted. I have an old panasonic 27" crt tv from around 1998. Will the PAL discs not display properly because it's an older tv or do I have to update my firmware on the dvd player? ThanksS97s (earlier models) will play PAL DVDs but they don't do PAL-to-NTSC conversion so will only be viewable on a PAL-capable TV.

S97s (earlier models) will play PAL DVDs but they don't do PAL-to-NTSC conversion so will only be viewable on a PAL-capable TV.

well does upgrading the firmware allow it to do pal to ntsc conversion?

Quick question about upconverting DVD players in general:

If you have a full screen DVD and your player can upconvert it by either 1080i or 720p...since these are widescreen resolutions and since the source (DVD) is full screen, will this cause picture distortion?

Well...I'm really glad I stumbled across this thread. I was just on base today and saw a Samsung HD960...which I was tempted to purchase. I was skeptical though, when I read the reviews. The reason I was interested was that my S97 suffered from macroblocking, and black crush. I just downloaded and installed the update to 364 (from 362) and I can say there is a noticable difference. I used AvP as a test, because of the black screens and at 1080i, while not being HD quality by any means, was much improved from what it was before. I did have a glitch though. After choosing play on the menu, the screen went blank and I had to hit menu and play again to get the movie started. Not sure why was scared me for a second...haha. Anyways, I'm now satisfied with my S97, until a combo HDDVD/BluRay player is developed, and costs come down a bit. I have a Samsung HL-S5688W, and there is word Samsung is working the above mentioned player:)

For me, with my Panny EDTV and component wires, I think I prefer the 362 to 364. This was just a first impression. I also think I noticed more green push than I had seen previously on 362. Maybe I'll go back to 362.

Quick question about upconverting DVD players in general:

If you have a full screen DVD and your player can upconvert it by either 1080i or 720p...since these are widescreen resolutions and since the source (DVD) is full screen, will this cause picture distortion?

If your TV forces widescreen with HD content......then yes, there will be distortion.

Does anyone know of a new firmware for the Panny DVD S77????????


Rob

I just got off the phone with Panasonic and confirmed that there is NO new firmware for the S77. Bummer. :(

Christian

For me, with my Panny EDTV and component wires, I think I prefer the 362 to 364. This was just a first impression. I also think I noticed more green push than I had seen previously on 362. Maybe I'll go back to 362.If anyone can confirm that they have successfully back-graded to 362 from 364, please post it here! I would like to know that there is a way out if one isn't happy with the 364 "upgrade."

well does upgrading the firmware allow it to do pal to ntsc conversion?

Unfortunately, no. :( Though the f/w upgrade from 362 ato 364 was successful on my S97, my pal discs still won't play on it.

I'd really hate to get rid of this wonderful player, but it's frustrating that cheapo Oppos and a ton of other junkers play both formats and this one doesn't.

Does ANYONE OUT THERE know of a benign hack (i.e. no surgery) using some kind of firmware and/or keypad method? I've googled the planet and haven't come up with one, save for a company in the UK that "rents" magic keypads that do it. I'd probably give it a shot if I weren't in the U.S. Pretty desperate, huh?

Help...anyone??

well does upgrading the firmware allow it to do pal to ntsc conversion?Oops, sorry I missed your post earlier. The answer is No as bobve3rens pointed out. An additional data point is that conversion sites like HKFlix, Barrel-of-Monkeys and RegionFreeDvds make a special point of mentioning that even if you buy or do a hack to get a region-free version of a Panasonic S97, S77 or S52 you will only be able to view a PAL DVD on a PAL-capable TV as these players do NOT contain a PAL-to-NTSC converter. I know the newer Sony RPTVs won't accept PAL but I'm not sure about Samsung, Mits, JVC, etc.

Oops, sorry I missed your post earlier. The answer is No as bobve3rens pointed out. An additional data point is that conversion sites like HKFlix, Barrel-of-Monkeys and RegionFreeDvds make a special point of mentioning that even if you buy or do a hack to get a region-free version of a Panasonic S97, S77 or S52 you will only be able to view a PAL DVD on a PAL-capable TV as these players do NOT contain a PAL-to-NTSC converter. I know the newer Sony RPTVs won't accept PAL but I'm not sure about Samsung, Mits, JVC, etc.

Disgruntled, you confirmed what it took me a few days of tedious searches to learn. That notwithstanding, I've tried several low-to-mid priced units that provide pal-to-ntsc -- the Pioneer 578A (hacked by more than a few online retailers) and the Yamaha S657 that comes stock that way and neither come close to the S97 -- as much as I tried to overlook the differences..all for a dozen or so PAL discs I have; my solution is to re-purchase eight of them that are "must haves" in NTSC, thus preserving my S97 and spending less than even a low-end code-free machine. Speaking of which, a friend of mine bought an Oppo last week and returned it two days later. According to him the audio was terribly weak and could only be improved with an outboard DAC. Nice.

does the s97 play SACD's? thanks

does the s97 play SACD's? thanksNope, just DVD-Audio.

Another thumbs up from me for the new firmware. Don't have particular scenes I watch for macroblocking (as I find it only makes me look for it harder in other scenes) but I have certainly noticed a decrease in the macroblocking overall. I still see it in some scenes, but greatly reduced.

Oops, sorry I missed your post earlier. The answer is No as bobve3rens pointed out. An additional data point is that conversion sites like HKFlix, Barrel-of-Monkeys and RegionFreeDvds make a special point of mentioning that even if you buy or do a hack to get a region-free version of a Panasonic S97, S77 or S52 you will only be able to view a PAL DVD on a PAL-capable TV as these players do NOT contain a PAL-to-NTSC converter. I know the newer Sony RPTVs won't accept PAL but I'm not sure about Samsung, Mits, JVC, etc.

Only the earlier version of S97plays PAL. S77, S52 and new version of S97 do not play PAL. While hardware has support, it is blocked in firmware. Making them region free does not enable PAL playback.

If anyone can confirm that they have successfully back-graded to 362 from 364, please post it here! I would like to know that there is a way out if one isn't happy with the 364 "upgrade."

I didn't try back-grading -- just figured I could -- but if its no, then its no I suppose.

I wanted to share some important information about the new modified firmware for the S97 players to make them region free. Unfortanly the forum is restricting me of making a good post because I have not made 5 posts yet.

I am not planning to spam the forum with 5 useless posts, so to acquire this info and the link to the modified firmware than please google for my site: "Panasonic s42 / S52 / S49 / S295 Info Site" and click on forums, hacking and than the topic called: "modified enhanced firmware for S97 now available" by Tom. I appologise that I'm forced to provide this info in such a way.

BTW, the site offers also recently released tools by Virus to modify Panasonic DVD player firmware (including the S97).

Martin.

Just being a nice guy..

This is the link for the above post.

http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/

WOW! Excellent job with Region Free mod! Great website too.....I love it. Nice database of new information for Panasonic players that has long been a secret.
:D

I, The Paranoid One, have just taken advantage of those firmware files, hacked for downgradability, as well as region-freedom. URLs for the files are posted here (http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=442&catid=9&limit=12&limitstart=0). I would read all of this short thread and post your thanks to Tom.

I can report that I can see absolutely no downside to this 362>364 upgrade. I spent half an hour with my favorite test disks before the upgrade, and then tried to find something wrong after, using the same disks.

I have seen NO change in image structure or color for any output I care about (all of them except 480p/component). Upscaled DVD material at 1080i (my TV's native display) is no sharper, but there seems to be less flickering and other garbage in even-toned areas where I had seen flickering, off-color bits, and macroblocking before, even a trace at 480p. Now the color is smooth, flickers less, and seems to be lower in noise on HDMI. (One can operate the player simultaneously on HDMI and component cables with my tweaked Sony 36XS955. Picking the mode is just a remote-click away. I switched back and forth while testing.)

I saw no change at all to 480i/component, which has always been smoother and less coarse than HDMI by a small margin. Yes!

Fine textures and edge detail has not been affected in any way that I can detect, nor color IMHO. Hooray!

Ken, paranoia is delusion involving the fear of persecution. Fear of adverse effects from firmware upgrades is not paranoia, it is a realistic outlook on life, derived from a mature understanding that machines are, in fact, out to get us. :D

But now that you went and did it, can we count on you to volunteer to go first on the next upgrade?

Wow, that site is a great resource! I am very very impressed.

Any of you guy tested those modified firmwares and tried to go back from 364 to 362 version to see it really works? I guess region free mods worked ok?

Are these firmwares for PAL and NTSC machines, like the ones at mechwollier?

I have seen NO change in image structure or color for any output I care about (all of them except 480p/component). Upscaled DVD material at 1080i (my TV's native display) is no sharper, but there seems to be less flickering and other garbage in even-toned areas where I had seen flickering, off-color bits, and macroblocking before, even a trace at 480p. Now the color is smooth, flickers less, and seems to be lower in noise on HDMI. (One can operate the player simultaneously on HDMI and component cables with my tweaked Sony 36XS955. Picking the mode is just a remote-click away. I switched back and forth while testing.)

I saw no change at all to 480i/component, which has always been smoother and less coarse than HDMI by a small margin. Yes!

Fine textures and edge detail has not been affected in any way that I can detect, nor color IMHO. Hooray! It sounds as though they may be using some kind of noise reduction technique. Have you looked for ghosting/image-retention problems on fast-action sequences (like the high-contrast wing edges in "Stealth")? That is sometimes the trade-off with NR.

Gary

It sounds as though they may be using some kind of noise reduction technique. Have you looked for ghosting/image-retention problems on fast-action sequences (like the high-contrast wing edges in "Stealth")? That is sometimes the trade-off with NR.There's no evidence of this. I know what that kind of noise reduction looks like, and I don't see any such thing with the new 364 -- and there is still plenty of film-grain where it was before with 362.

With 362, when I stepped frame-by-frame and examined uniform areas of subtle colors in certain problematic DVDs, I could see blocks of slight pink and cyan that moved around randomly, giving the impression of a "fluttering" of the color in that area when played at normal speed. Examining that same areas with 364, that effect has vanished, but other image defects (inherent in the DVD) are still there. So I don't think simple noise reduction was the solution.

I think there must have been an arror in judgement regarding color decoding with 362 and previious. The effects I had seen all looked like poor color bit-resolving under some situations -- not image resolution, but the ability to correctly display small color differences -- color bit-depth. It looked like subtle colors were being "rounded off" to certain hues in a blocky way, somewhat randomly. At normal frame rates, your eye averages it out, but there was still a color flicker effect. Now that's gone!

Ken, paranoia is delusion involving the fear of persecution. Fear of adverse effects from firmware upgrades is not paranoia, it is a realistic outlook on life, derived from a mature understanding that machines are, in fact, out to get us. :DUm . . . I knew that! :) (I am a computer system and software consultant. Guess where that upgrade, ah, caution comes from!) But now that you went and did it, can we count on you to volunteer to go first on the next upgrade?Oh, absolutely -- as long as I can back away if it smells bad! (Cluck, cluck!) Again, I think the fellow who decrypted, decompiled, hacked, and recompiled the firmware is a Prince! I hope he's around for the next upgrade.

************
You know what I want fixed? I think it's dumb, dumb, that several of the buttons on the S97's remote advance to the next choice without first showing you what the existing setting is. Example: the AV Enhancer button. If you're set to User1 and want to check (you've forgotten), you push the button, and it shows "User2," having advanced to the next choice. If you want it to remain at User1, you now have to cycle thru the choices, back to User1. NO other consumer-video item I own, nor my Sony HD-TV, does this on any function-button. Aarrggh!

The way it should work: First push shows you the menu as-is; next push advances it.

Wonder how hackable that is . . .

So in macroblocking now a thing of the past on this player with this latest firmware?

So in macroblocking now a thing of the past on this player with this latest firmware?

I wouldn't say it's gone on every DVD but it is greatly reduced.
And for some folks it depends if you are using Componant or HDMI outputs.

I still have macroblocking on my display through 720p. I just use 480p through HDMI so I don't see any.....it's super annoying to me.

I still have macroblocking on my display through 720p. I just use 480p through HDMI so I don't see any.....it's super annoying to me.

Why? The DVD is upscaling to 720p -- and likely your TV can't display this -- so your TV has to then downsize that signal to it's native resolution. Why not send a pure 480p and let the TV do the rest, which it has to. Another way to put it: your DVD cost ~$250; your TV ~2500 -- which do you want to scale the picture? (And why do it twice?)

Can the S97 firmware updates be used for the S77?
If not, could someone let me know what is the latest firmware # for the S77 and where I can get it?
TIA

The firmware is different for the S77.

I saw macroblocking a week ago - I can't remember which anime I was watching at the time. It was heavily compressed however, so it wasn't surprising. I've been watching many hours of anime since I upgraded to 364 and it was the first I've seen it.

KenTech, have you tried playing Sin City and see if the pinkish gray tones are gone? That would be a good torture test for the S97.

Why? The DVD is upscaling to 720p -- and likely your TV can't display this -- so your TV has to then downsize that signal to it's native resolution. Why not send a pure 480p and let the TV do the rest, which it has to. Another way to put it: your DVD cost ~$250; your TV ~2500 -- which do you want to scale the picture? (And why do it twice?)

What are you talking about? My TV is a RP LCD which outputs 720p resolution. When I use the Panny S97 to upscale DVD's to 720p, I get macroblocking (which I can't stand)......so I set the S97 to 480p instead and let the TV upconvert the signal and voila......no macroblocking.

KenTech, have you tried playing Sin City and see if the pinkish gray tones are gone? That would be a good torture test for the S97.Don't have it. But this player with 362 or 364 firmware has NO off-colors whatsoever. I'm a stickler for perfect grayscale, and what I display from the S97 is no different from non-DVD test sources. Films in B/W are displayed dead-neutral without any color casts at any brightness. Grays are just perfect.

I have never witnessed this problem that I hear haunted early versions of this player.

The S97 owners manual states that a DVD+R will not work in the S97. However, I thought that I read somewhere in this post that some have been able to play DVD+R's.

WILL or WILL NOT the S97 play DVD-R?

Thanks for your input.

Yes it plays dvd-r.

Thanks John

The S97 owners manual states that a DVD+R will not work in the S97. However, I thought that I read somewhere in this post that some have been able to play DVD+R's.

WILL or WILL NOT the S97 play DVD-R?

Thanks for your input.


Yes it plays DVD+R as well.
Also works well with DVD+R DL

And thanks to you too, Dog.

The DVD+R DL is what I was really intersted in.

A new firmware for the DVD-S97 has been made available (362a/542a) including the Region Free mod and disabled UOP processing ;)

Hope you like it !

Tom

What's UOP processing?

Disabling UOP lets you skip over FBI warnings and other unskippable stuff. :)

I have been using the s-97 for quite some time now i had recently upgraded to the 364 firmware, noticed a bit of sharpness loss and so i downgraded via the new hacked firmware back to 362 which i originally started off with. Downgrading back i noticed picture had a tiny bit more macroblocking but id rather have that than a softer picture.
I also need some advice, i have tried to correct white+black levels with the avia dvd and im left with +1 for brightness and 0 for contrast - if anyone has used a better program which more accurately sets white and black level settings can u please share which dvd and what settings u currently are using with the 362 firmware?

I was using +1 brightness -1 contrast before. I think. I posted my settings many months ago when I first purchased the S97.

Tom - thanks for the extra info. :)

I have been using the s-97 for quite some time now i had recently upgraded to the 364 firmware, noticed a bit of sharpness loss and so i downgraded via the new hacked firmware back to 362 which i originally started off with.Can you be a bit more specific? What video mode are you using to send to the TV, and what display is it? I noticed absolutely no sharpness loss when I upgraded, but I don't let the player upsample to 720p or 1080i, either. I send 480p/HDMI or 480i/component. 480i/component has been, and is still, a more refined picture, with more ultra-fine texture and detail than the digital HDMI on my Sony 36XS955. The appearance of those two modes did not change at all with the 362>364 upgrade. Maybe it's the upsampling modes whose appearance has changed, yes?

************
BTW, maybe it's only a feel-good B-movie, but I have never seen better detail and texture on a DVD, rendered without exaggeration or artifacts in near-perfect color, than on Disney's Mystery, Alaska. Worth a rental or borrowing from the library just to run tests. Outdoor scenes with leafless trees, fuzzy and woolen clothing, a character's gray wool suit with perfect texture rendition, great shadow color and detail -- all make it a great evaluation disk. And a nice self-indulgence for hockey fans!

A new firmware for the DVD-S97 has been made available (362a/542a) including the Region Free mod and disabled UOP processing ;)

Hope you like it !

Tom
Thanks Tom, I just burned the dvdpupdt.frm in Modified_Firmware_S97_364a_542a.zip to a CD-R in data mode and then inserted into my S-97, the update took just over 2 minutes. I then used Open/Close + Pause + 7 to check the firmware version, it now shows 85E542. I really like disabled VOP processing. It seems like more DVDs are getting more stuff at the beginning that I couldn't skip over; now I can, thank you.

BYW 1080i/HDMI, 480p/HDMI (my current default setting), or 480i/component (with DRC/Interlaced) gives the best video on my Sony KV-34HS420 TV

Malcolm

Post #4147 in the "Panasonic DVD-S97S FAQ / Brain dump" thread contains information on how to use a One For All remote and standard (non-hacked) firmware to change the player's region or make it multi-region. So, for those that are reluctant to use non-standard firmware (you know who you are) but are still adventurous enough to try changing your player's region, you can try that approach.

As I said in the other post, credit goes to all the others, including Tom9999, that provided the important information.

Can you be a bit more specific? What video mode are you using to send to the TV, and what display is it? I noticed absolutely no sharpness loss when I upgraded, but I don't let the player upsample to 720p or 1080i, either. I send 480p/HDMI or 480i/component. 480i/component has been, and is still, a more refined picture, with more ultra-fine texture and detail than the digital HDMI on my Sony 36XS955. The appearance of those two modes did not change at all with the 362>364 upgrade. Maybe it's the upsampling modes whose appearance has changed, yes?

************
BTW, maybe it's only a feel-good B-movie, but I have never seen better detail and texture on a DVD, rendered without exaggeration or artifacts in near-perfect color, than on Disney's Mystery, Alaska. Worth a rental or borrowing from the library just to run tests. Outdoor scenes with leafless trees, fuzzy and woolen clothing, a character's gray wool suit with perfect texture rendition, great shadow color and detail -- all make it a great evaluation disk. And a nice self-indulgence for hockey fans!
I am using 1080i mode via hdmi on the hitachi 42pd8800ta (australian model release) i think it is which mode you are using that makes all the difference.
I have noticed a degradation of shrapness with the lastest firmware, bit more softer cinema like picture. colors seem the same but can see a few more artifacts with older version (362) which to me is sharper and more defined picture.

I am using 1080i mode via hdmi on the hitachi 42pd8800ta (australian model release) i think it is which mode you are using that makes all the difference.I agree. Although I have seen no degradation for 1080i upscaling, I'm not sure my Sony 36XS955 TV handles 1080i/HDMI as well as a fixed-pixel display that has a 1080i "native" pixel setup. And so I use the superior 480p/HDMI feed and let the TV handle the upscaling.

In accord with what others have said, I saw macroblocking with FW 362, but only on 1080i and 720p thru HDMI. If it was visible on 480p/HDMI, I was hard-pressed to detect it, and there was no trace of it on 480i over component. So, for me, MB is a non-issue.

But the killing of user-operation prohibitions (UOPs) with the latest modified 364b is a huge advantage and justifies the upgrade for me, no matter the other issues.

KenTech,

On a side note, do you find HDMI better than component with this player/display combination? I'm asking because many CRT owners find no difference or even a slight advantage with component.

I have also upgraded to the hacked 364a/542a firmware and see no downside at all in terms of PQ or functionality. Defeating UOP's is a huge, huge improvement! I highly recommend this upgrade.

To help everyone find it: the thread discussing the hacked 364a/542a firmware is here (http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=&func=view&catid=10&id=499#499), and the firmware itself can be downloaded here (http://rapidshare.de/files/27180669/Modified_Firmware_S97_364a_542a.zip.html).

KenTech,

On a side note, do you find HDMI better than component with this player/display combination? I'm asking because many CRT owners find no difference or even a slight advantage with component.They look different, and on the best material, I tend to prefer the look of 480i/component.

With inferior video quality from the DVD (so-so sharpness or oversharpening), both methods look very much the same. But if I start with exquisite image quality (e.g. Mystery, Alaska; North Country; most of The Matrix, Collector's Ed.), the onscreen rendering is quite different. If you sit close enough to get a good "theater" view of the frame, it's especially noticeable.

I have tuned service-mode parameters in my Sony 36XS955 to optimize each video path, trying to squeeze out the best possible picture. (See Sony Service Codes thread for gory details.) Black level, white point, color all match. Here is what I observe:

(1) 480i via excellent component cables has a photo-like quality and a considerable freedom from the "video" look. (See outdoor scenes in North Country or Mystery, Alaska.) Fine detail and texture that are seemingly beyond a DVD's limitations are definitely displayed, maybe because of clever antialiasing in the player, I don't know. I seem to see all the DVD has encoded on it. People's faces plus natural leaves, grass, and sandy textures look, well, natural. For a grainy film, add a notch or two of 3D-NR, and the result is really beautiful. Below-black and White+ are handled perfectly.

Downside: Not much. Panasonic adds a touch of vertical sharpness enhancement I wish I could remove (most visible on animation). Lousy DVD transfers look, well, lousy. Long cables will likely degrade the image slightly.

(2) 480p via HDMI theoretically should send the exact digital data to the TV that's on the DVD. The image is gorgeous, and if this is all I had, I would be satisfied. Color nuances, especially in dark areas, seem to be handled a bit better than (1). Some films simply look better thru HDMI, maybe because there is something going on that counteracts defects in second-rate DVD transfer. Animation is especially good. If the video/cinema frame-cadences are a challenge, the Faroudja chip is in play, here, and makes easy work of it; Sony's built-in "CineMotion" does 3:2 reverse-cine for (1) but nothing else. Long cables don't degrade the image: it either works, or it doesn't.

Downside: The finest DVD images suffer slightly from a sort of artificial quality that's hard to pin down. It is as though fine detail -- the system's resolution -- had some kind of hard limit: perfectly sharp up to a specific lines-per-inch, but no more. Slightly off-vertical or off-horizintal edges have more stair-stepping and digital "look" to them. There's absolutely no vertical sharpness enhancement, but I can't seem to get away from a slight "coarseness" on superb images that is not visible on (1), which seems to have more image "finesse." I have tried very hard to get the same "look" for HDMI as I have with component, but I just can't. It is as though there's nothing more to work with coming into the TV.

We already know that the Panasonic players don't pass BTB and WTW over HDMI, and you have to fudge the Brightness and Contrast controls a tad to get those levels, if present. Further, a smooth dark-to-light gradient shows a little banding that can't be reduced to zero, although setting the player's Brightness and Contrast tweaks both at zero comes close. 480i/component is, by comparison, silky smooth on all brightness and color gradients.

Bottom line: One doesn't have to "commit"! Both video paths work simultaneously, and I am learning which method works best for which DVDs. It's just a click away on the remote, if you want to try the other.

[QUOTE=KenTech]I agree. Although I have seen no degradation for 1080i upscaling, I'm not sure my Sony 36XS955 TV handles 1080i/HDMI as well as a fixed-pixel display that has a 1080i "native" pixel setup. And so I use the superior 480p/HDMI feed and let the TV handle the upscaling....[QUOTE]

My Sony KV-34HS420 input-to-display resolutions are: 480i->480p with DRC/Progressive; 480i->480p with DRC/Cinemotion; 480i->960i with DRC/Interlaced; 480p->480p; 720p->1080i; 1080i->1080i and I believe the scaling on your Sony is probably the same, so no scaling will take place with a 480p HDMI input signal. For my original post on this, see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6180894&&#post6180894

They look different, and on the best material, I tend to prefer the look of 480i/component.

With inferior video quality from the DVD (so-so sharpness or oversharpening), both methods look very much the same. But if I start with exquisite image quality (e.g. Mystery, Alaska; North Country; most of The Matrix, Collector's Ed.), the onscreen rendering is quite different. If you sit close enough to get a good "theater" view of the frame, it's especially noticeable.

I have tuned service-mode parameters in my Sony 36XS955 to optimize each video path, trying to squeeze out the best possible picture. (See Sony Service Codes thread for gory details.) Black level, white point, color all match. Here is what I observe:

(1) 480i via excellent component cables has a photo-like quality and a considerable freedom from the "video" look. (See outdoor scenes in North Country or Mystery, Alaska.) Fine detail and texture that are seemingly beyond a DVD's limitations are definitely displayed, maybe because of clever antialiasing in the player, I don't know. I seem to see all the DVD has encoded on it. People's faces plus natural leaves, grass, and sandy textures look, well, natural. For a grainy film, add a notch or two of 3D-NR, and the result is really beautiful. Below-black and White+ are handled perfectly.

Downside: Not much. Panasonic adds a touch of vertical sharpness enhancement I wish I could remove (most visible on animation). Lousy DVD transfers look, well, lousy. Long cables will likely degrade the image slightly.

(2) 480p via HDMI theoretically should send the exact digital data to the TV that's on the DVD. The image is gorgeous, and if this is all I had, I would be satisfied. Color nuances, especially in dark areas, seem to be handled a bit better than (1). Some films simply look better thru HDMI, maybe because there is something going on that counteracts defects in second-rate DVD transfer. Animation is especially good. If the video/cinema frame-cadences are a challenge, the Faroudja chip is in play, here, and makes easy work of it; Sony's built-in "CineMotion" does 3:2 reverse-cine for (1) but nothing else. Long cables don't degrade the image: it either works, or it doesn't.

Downside: The finest DVD images suffer slightly from a sort of artificial quality that's hard to pin down. It is as though fine detail -- the system's resolution -- had some kind of hard limit: perfectly sharp up to a specific lines-per-inch, but no more. Slightly off-vertical or off-horizintal edges have more stair-stepping and digital "look" to them. There's absolutely no vertical sharpness enhancement, but I can't seem to get away from a slight "coarseness" on superb images that is not visible on (1), which seems to have more image "finesse." I have tried very hard to get the same "look" for HDMI as I have with component, but I just can't. It is as though there's nothing more to work with coming into the TV.

We already know that the Panasonic players don't pass BTB and WTW over HDMI, and you have to fudge the Brightness and Contrast controls a tad to get those levels, if present. Further, a smooth dark-to-light gradient shows a little banding that can't be reduced to zero, although setting the player's Brightness and Contrast tweaks both at zero comes close. 480i/component is, by comparison, silky smooth on all brightness and color gradients.

Bottom line: One doesn't have to "commit"! Both video paths work simultaneously, and I am learning which method works best for which DVDs. It's just a click away on the remote, if you want to try the other.

I agree about not commiting.....I use component and HDMI depending on what I feel like. I have a Sony 57" CRT RPTV (KP-57WS520). It's had every conceivable "tweak" and calibration done on it...including an ISF calibration. With each input and scanrate I use equally calibrated, I find HDMI is very slightly darker. Component is a bit brighter and more "natural" with what appears as a higher contrast ratio in general. Black levels are pretty much equal as is color rendition. In addition, upscaling creates just a bit of a softer image, as well. It's so minor than no detail is actually even lost.

The only reason I like to upscale commerical DVDs to 1080i HDMI is to avoid seeing horizontal scanlines which are visible at 480i/p. Now, if I sit back far enough, I really can't see them at 480. But, upscaling allows me to sit closer to the set without seeing them.

All in all, I think for my display 480p component is the best way to view DVDs on my display....and this has been the case on many DVD players I've tried. However, there is the scanline issue which makes me upscale sometimes.

Ken, just sent you a PM.

For me the 1080i mode is the sure way to go, 1080i with my current plasma enables it to display in native res - meaning sharper more defined picture.

Im in a different position than you are with your set up - for me 1080i is the panels native res due to the 1024x1024 ALIS technology it uses and its interlaced method for displaying 1080 or 1024 with 1:1 mapping (both odd and even lines are displayed at the one time) without re-scaling.
in 480i mode via component the faroudja chip in the player isnt actually turned on for u to see any enhancement or any issues that come with it, u let your TV handle the upscaling process and may be better for your set up in the end - but for me i dont have that benefit with my TV. I have studied it pretty close with 364 and 362 firmware installed and i can see a definite sharpness i couldnt see before with PQ with 362.

Tom9999,

Where can this new download be found?

I have also upgraded to the hacked 364a/542a firmware and see no downside at all in terms of PQ or functionality. Defeating UOP's is a huge, huge improvement! I highly recommend this upgrade.

To help everyone find it: the thread discussing the hacked 364a/542a firmware is here (http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=&func=view&catid=10&id=499#499), and the firmware itself can be downloaded here (http://rapidshare.de/files/27180669/Modified_Firmware_S97_364a_542a.zip.html).


What is UOP?

IS there anything that can be done to get rid of the white crush this player seems to have?

Tom,

Where is the 543a? I can't find it either. Thanks for all of your work here!!!

Tom9999,

Where can this new download be found?

What is UOP?User-Operation Prohibitions. Like when you're not permitted to skip FBI warnings; or go directly to the main menu when a bunch of previews appear at a DVD's start. (You're forced to fast-forward through them!)

UOPs are a way the manufacturer of the DVD can dictate exactly how you are going to navigate the disk, according to their commercial interests. With the latest hacked firmware, UOPs are rendered impotent.IS there anything that can be done to get rid of the white crush this player seems to have?I'm somewhat fanatical on the subject, and I've concluded this (my) S97 player has not a trace of white crush (white blocking). I have evaluated this with DVE stairstep patterns, and on component outputs even whiter-than-white (WTW) is passed perfectly. On HDMI, WTW is not passed, but the grayscale steps are perfectly rendered right up to 255 white. (Fudging Contrast down a notch or two on the player enabled some WTW to get through, if it matters -- an accepted technique.)

If you see white blocking, I'll bet it's occurring somewhere else, like in the TV. Maybe the gamma is set too low.

Ken, thanks for your reply.

I lowered my DVD player contrast from 0 to -3 and this seems to solve the problem entirely.
The grey ramps are now perfect, and the picture is outstanding.

DO you recommend this new firmware update?

The grey ramps are now perfect, and the picture is outstanding.Yes, but you need to know that those levels that are now assigned to WTW were "stolen" from somewhere else in the brightness range, probably imperceptibly. That's how Panasonic does the Brightness/Contrast thing: They remap a larger range of DVD (digital) levels to the same output levels (or the entire DVD brightness range to fewer output levels) -- and so they have to skip over a few. You can see this happening in the following experiment:

Display any continuous-tone gray ramp from the player; pick one from DVE or AVIA. Temporarily set Sharpness both on the player and on the TV to max. This exaggerates the boundaries between brightness levels so you can see them. Now play with Contrast and Brightness on the player, and note how the ramp becomes "segmented" in different ways, some "lumpier" than others. The idea is to minimize large jumps; they'll appear as banding in some DVD material. Certain combinations of plus-Brightness and minus-Contrast seem to have fewer artifacts than others, and those are the ones to aim for, I think. It's especially obvious over HDMI -- but most of this is really masked by real-world video material, so don't get too paranoid!

Since there is no BTB/WTW problem to solve for component outputs on this player, I will never use the onboard Contrast and Brightness adjustments for that output. The controls on my TV contribute no artifacts, by comparison. And the player's Sharpness control is much too coarse, IMHO. So one can set up one of the User1-3 settings just for HDMI with those tweaks, and use Off or another User settting for component.DO you recommend this new firmware update?Oh, yes. Without reservation. There is some discussion about whether the 1080i upsampled output over HDMI has slightly less detail, but I can't confirm it. See comments by Rokz0r here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8115939&&#post8115939). I am just so relieved to be rid of UOPs!

Well I did the 543 update ansd it still wont let me play a DVD from Argentina. It doesnt look like the region free mod is woeking for me. Did I miss something? Do you have to do something more than just the firmware update to make the S97 region free?

Nevermind I found it. This is incredible! Many thanks to you guys for this hack!

Works for me. I tested it last night running 543a and the remote commands for region free. 543 is stock firmware and NOT region free. You have to use 543a and do the remote commands.

Well I did the 543 update ansd it still wont let me play a DVD from Argentina. It doesnt look like the region free mod is woeking for me. Did I miss something? Do you have to do something more than just the firmware update to make the S97 region free?

LOL! Good one.

On the second Day, God was helpless, so he invented the README file !

Hmmm...now if we could just figure out how to get rid of HDCP.....

I would love to see a definitive (or at least an "official") statement of the purpose of the 364>366 upgrade (and the 542>543 equivalent).

I called Panasonic last time and posted the results here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7761899&&#post7761899). Is there a chance someone else can do it this time?

Be sure to escalate the call beyond the first person you talk to, perhaps to a supervisor, or you will get a simplistic or not-detailed answer. I found it fairly easy to get thru the phone-menu system.

The question: If 364/542 was to remedy macroblocking, what does 366/543 do?

Wait a second - if PAL is blocked in firmware, does this mean that this latest firmware will block PAL for all of us?

Ok. So the lack of PAL on some S97 is a hardware modification. If I remember correctly, units that use the 5xx firmware (like mine) should definitely support PAL? Those that are 3xx may or may not?

Damn, I will check with the first post.

EDIT: Ok, nothing mentioned about PAL limitations in the first post. So, do ALL S97's still support PAL playback? Geez, this is confusing.

MY panasonic S97 wont seem to remeber my user settings for contrast, brightness and so on.

It seems to remember the main settings like 480p, 16:9 ect, just not things like user mode. It always seems to revert to NORMAL when I turn it off, and all the contrast, brightness ect go back to 0's.

Any idea?

you are not saving them in user mode properly....mine saves them properly with 542 and 543...check out the manual

Works for me. I tested it last night running 543a and the remote commands for region free. 543 is stock firmware and NOT region free. You have to use 543a and do the remote commands.
LiteUp, how do you like 543a? Do you see any lack of sharpness from your player's first firmware? How about the previous firmware?

Hello!!
USERS
I am here new,greetings to all USERS in this forum.
I have the new firmware for Panasonic S97.old 86H364/85E542, new 86H366/85E543

You have the best picture with this DVD Player.

Kino Joe from Austria

Hi there,

I'm in Melbourne, Australia and bought my S97 (PAL version) about 4 mths ago. It came with firmware 362 and was multiregion out of the box. I use it with a Pioneer 505HD plasma TV via HDMI at 1080i. MB was quite bad with certain titles, eg., the dim underwater scenes in "The Hunt for Red October".

Last night I took the plunge and applied firmware 366a. Voila! MB was almost non-existent with THFRO! I'll test with more titles but so far it's looking good. As for sharpness, I can't see any difference between 362 & 366a, ie., the PQ was as sharp as before. Oh yes, my S97 was still multiregion after applying 366a.

Cheers.

Yesterday i upgraded to 366a also and macroblocking reduced even more so than 364 and sharpness seems same as firmware compared to fv 362. Also fiddling with color settings YcBrc 4:2:2 seems the to be the best settings with a 36-bit color display (more color gradation) if your TV supports it - i read up on it and due to bandwidth limitations only the 4:2:2 mode allows 36-bit (12-bit color for each red-green-blue pixel).4:4:4 actually renders in 30-bit (10bit*3)but only displays 24-bit (8-bit*3)which is the same as standard RGB. i have a question - what are DVD's actually encoded in 8 or 12 bit color? i did notice some difference in gradation changes, before colors looked like a painting with background subtle colors or horizons and skies(have a look at ice age DVD), now it seems well blended in, any comments or clarification anyone can give me?

Hallo!!
jigesh

The "official" firmware Is it also no hacked to make it region-free.

"Tom9999" firmware Is it also hacked to make it region-free.


Cheers.

... i have a question - what are DVD's actually encoded in 8 or 12 bit color?

Each original component signal is limited to 8 bits per sample. See Q. 3.4 here. (http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html)

Hello!!
jigesh

You have PM (private mail)

Sorry my english is not perfect

Kino Joe

Hello!!
jigesh

You have PM (private mail)

Kino Joe

Hello!!
jigesh

You have very good PM (private mail)

Kino Joe ;)

Each original component signal is limited to 8 bits per sample. See Q. 3.4 here. (http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html)
Wow! too much info lol. Ok if upscaling players let you upscale the resolution would that also mean you could upscale the color to take full advantages of a hdmi connection? if not then why that option to have 12-bits per component over hdmi?

Wow! too much info lol. Ok if upscaling players let you upscale the resolution would that also mean you could upscale the color to take full advantages of a hdmi connection? if not then why that option to have 12-bits per component over hdmi?

Scaling shouldn't have anything to do with it. From the same link, I quote the following:

Different players use different numbers of bits for the video digital-to-analog converter, wit the best-quality players using 10 or 12 bits. This has nothing to do with the MPEG decoding process, since each original component signal is limited to 8 bits per sample. More bits in the player provide more "headroom" and more signal levels during digital-to-analog conversion, which can help produce a better picture.

This is an old story...

You seem to be a damn clever person. Maybe a little bit of reading would help you to manage your life more easily ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8118326&&#post8118326

Tom

Tom,

I agree I did not see your post providing the link. You could have mentioned it less offensively. Afterall, this thread was not initiated by you and I am not taking away crediting your contribution by acknowledging help from others and re-posting the links. So chill out, man....

Jigesh

Thanks jigesh for all your help. much appreciated. By the way the new firmware absolutely r0x for anyone thinking twice about it, take the plunge,be daring, believe me its worth it! Much "clearer" image due to less macroblocking and sharpness level is..well...perfect!
Im curious as to know who else see's these differences or who is kind enough to share thier experiences with new FW.

Thanks jigesh for all your help. much appreciated. By the way the new firmware absolutely r0x for anyone thinking twice about it, take the plunge,be daring, believe me its worth it! Much "clearer" image due to less macroblocking and sharpness level is..well...perfect!
Im curious as to know who else see's these differences or who is kind enough to share thier experiences with new FW.

Yes, I'll. I first have to find out the piece of paper where I had my setup menu settings written - so that if the new firmware brings everything to factory-default (like it did when I moved from 362 to 364), I can still have previous settings.

Hello!!
jigesh
The original new firmware 86H366 / 85E543 is for me from my panasonic servicecenter in AUSTRIA.

Tom9999
Thank you for the help.

is this OK? :confused:

look this one first page 541 & 362 Available!!!!!! (thanks to KinoJoe):

The original firmware 86H362 /85E541- 86H364 / 85E542 - 86H366 / 85E543 is for me from my panasonic servicecenter in AUSTRIA.

Kino Joe ;)

Hello!!

The original firmware 86H362 /85E541- 86H364 / 85E542 - 86H366 / 85E543 is for me from my panasonic servicecenter in AUSTRIA.

Kino Joe ;)

Good work, THANK YOU!

To all involved in 366a (clear instructions, firmware enhancements, postings) THANK YOU! The firmware upgrade went as expected and it is a significant improvement -- picture is stunning....and no longer seeing the annoying warnings seems to good to be true.

BTW -- I use the S97 with a PTAE700 using HDMI 720P setting. For thos with this projector to achieve BTB using DVE disc, a YCbcr setting of 4:2:2 on the S97 is mandatory.

Thanks again!

just dunno what's the matter here... I think I will stop providing anything new for the S97. Seems to be the wrong audience. You are wasting too much time with talking about fairly simple things.

Please continue to support the S97! I and others here very much appreciate your efforts. I had given up on finding a region-free and UOP-free version of the S97 and had given up until I saw your work. There are hundreds of us in this forum with this player, so don't let one bad apple get to you. :)

I am eternally grateful for your hard work - now I hardly ever use my PC to play DVDs anymore - the picture is just too stunning now!

Don't worry ;)

Don't take this personally...

I'm just a little pissed about what happens here.

1. I posted the links when I finished patching it but people are just too lazy to read what has been written. :(

2. People post nonsense about "issues" they think to have discovered (The guy with the PAL statement who also messaged me personally to ask for a patch to disable the PAL blocking in firmware on some US models). Instead of correcting his nonsense and editing the post accordingly he continues to defend his nonsense. :eek:

I just dunno what's the matter here... I think I will stop providing anything new for the S97. Seems to be the wrong audience. You are wasting too much time with talking about fairly simple things.

Tom


Tom,
First off, I am very thankful that you have taken the time to do the work you have done and appreciate you taking the time to post here in this forum the links for downloading your work.
I agree that at times it looks like no one here does their homework on reading previous posts. It happens in lots of other AVS forums too! But there are lots of us here who do our "due diligence" and read and may re-read previous posts in order to make sure they understand what's being said.

I hope you continue your work on the S97 and let us know what you're latest efforts have produced.
Regards,
-t

Finally, I got time to upgrade firware to 366a. Thank you, Tom.

My usual settings are at 480p (due to EDTV) - so macroblocking was not a big issue to begin with (people mostly see it on S97 when 780p) and also it had gone down quite a bit with 364.

The biggest gain I see (for my settings) is getting rid of UOP.

I also noted that when I set it region-free and RCE-free, I no longer can access to the Picture menu (Display-->Picture) and it shows like "Picture *" and the message at the bottom says something like "The player can not do this at this time."

However, if I set the player to Region 1 again, I can access the picture menu like I always could.

Has anyone else noticed it?

Finally, I got time to upgrade firware to 366a. Thank you, Tom.

My usual settings are at 480p (due to EDTV) - so macroblocking was not a big issue to begin with (people mostly see it on S97 when 780p) and also it had gone down quite a bit with 364.

What settings are you using please and method of connection to the EDTV because I still see macroblocking. Thanks so much!

What settings are you using please and method of connection to the EDTV because I still see macroblocking. Thanks so much!

Here's the summary - not sure how useful these will be to your tastes.

Connection: HDMI (I am sending only video signals via HDMI, no audio through it)

S-97 Settings:-

Setup-->Video

TV Aspect: 16:9, TV Type: Plasma, Still Mode: Automatic, Black Level: Enhanced

Setup-->HDMI

RGB Range: Enhanced

Display-->Other...->Picture Menu-->Picture Mode -->User-->Picture Adjustments

Brightnes: +1
Sharpness: -1 (everything else, default 0)

Display-->Other...->Picture Menu

Video Output Mode: 480p
Transfer Mode: Auto1
HDMI Color Space: YCbCr 4:4:4

Display-->Other..->Display Menu

4:3 Aspect Ratio: Automatic
GUI Brightness: 0


Panasonic EDTV (8UK) Settings:-

Used Digital Video Essentials DVD for calibration. Your settings may vary depending upon ambient/background light in your environment.

Picture Menu: Standard
Picture: 0
Brightness: 3
Color: 3
Tint: 2
Sharpness: 0
Color Temp: Warm
Advanced settings: off
Color Mmt.: Off

Thanks very much!

Don't worry ;)

Don't take this personally...

I'm just a little pissed about what happens here.

1. I posted the links when I finished patching it but people are just too lazy to read what has been written. :(

2. People post nonsense about "issues" they think to have discovered (The guy with the PAL statement who also messaged me personally to ask for a patch to disable the PAL blocking in firmware on some US models). Instead of correcting his nonsense and editing the post accordingly he continues to defend his nonsense. :eek:

I just dunno what's the matter here... I think I will stop providing anything new for the S97. Seems to be the wrong audience. You are wasting too much time with talking about fairly simple things.

Tom

I would just like to add my thanks to you for modding AND SHARING the S97 firmware. Where would we be without people like you who take time and effort on these projects (stuck, that's what!).
UOP disable is much appreciated.
Thanks!!! :)

Hello!!
mdray

what is with me,no THANKS?

greet:Kino Joe ;)

I will thank you Kino Joe u have done a marvellous job providing firmware after firmware update, without you no-one would have the most recent updated firmware on their nice and shiny s-97 via your posted links to them, most would be stuffing around with service centre calls and waiting impatiently to receive it from panasonic!
thanks heaps :)

ìt´s ok.

greet:Kino Joe ;)

Thanks very much!

Also see Paul's excellent work in the DVD-S97 MACROBLOCK SURVIVAL GUIDE section of this post. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4569192&&#post4569192) If these can help you minimize macroblocking, let's know.


Kino Joe: Lots of thanks for a number of PMs, too. Have you set your S97 to Region Free/RCE code free? If so, can you access Picture menu (Display-->Picture)?

Hello!!
jigesh
my player It runs without any mistake.

greet:Kino Joe ;)

Hello!!
jigesh
THANKS

Have a nice day.

greet:Kino Joe ;)

Hello!!
mdray

what is with me,no THANKS?

greet:Kino Joe ;)

Hi Joe.
Sorry!!
I've just noticed the link that you refer to.
Thanks for sharing that with us all!!! ;)

Hello!!
mdray

ìt´s ok.

greet:Kino Joe ;)

Don't worry ;)

Don't take this personally...

I'm just a little pissed about what happens here.

1. I posted the links when I finished patching it but people are just too lazy to read what has been written. :(

2. People post nonsense about "issues" they think to have discovered (The guy with the PAL statement who also messaged me personally to ask for a patch to disable the PAL blocking in firmware on some US models). Instead of correcting his nonsense and editing the post accordingly he continues to defend his nonsense. :eek:

I just dunno what's the matter here... I think I will stop providing anything new for the S97. Seems to be the wrong audience. You are wasting too much time with talking about fairly simple things.

Tom

That is the most ego-filled post I think I've ever read here. Basically you think you aren't getting "enough" credit? Ok, good to know, next time we'll all make sure we post in big font and bold thanking you for your contributions.

Geez...I don't know who's worse. People who don't search first and ask a basically answered question on their first post or people who think they are gods gift to the world and think everyone who doesn't know what they know are below them. I welcome the newbies and their questions over the 2nd group.

Mike, you got a PM.

Hi guys,

I have been trying to download 543a from the rapidshare website but have been unable to do so; the download process never seems to start.

Is there another link for this download or can someone send me a PM with this file.

Thanks in advance.

Hello!!
EVT
sorry
i can`t send you a private message (private mail)


greet: Kino Joe ;)

Nevermind,

It appears my firewall was blocking the download.

Anyway, has anyone confirmed whether they see a drop in detail with 543a? I currently have 540 installed and see no macroblocking so I don't want to go backward with this firmware in terms of PQ.

I was wondering if anyone has noticed any improvement in the clarity of the zoom function with this firmware; this has been my biggest gripe with this player as I still have a few non anamorphic dvd's.

Also, has there been any change in the speed of the layer change?

Finally, I got time to upgrade firware to 366a. Thank you, Tom.

My usual settings are at 480p (due to EDTV) - so macroblocking was not a big issue to begin with (people mostly see it on S97 when 780p) and also it had gone down quite a bit with 364.

The biggest gain I see (for my settings) is getting rid of UOP.

I also noted that when I set it region-free and RCE-free, I no longer can access to the Picture menu (Display-->Picture) and it shows like "Picture *" and the message at the bottom says something like "The player can not do this at this time."

However, if I set the player to Region 1 again, I can access the picture menu like I always could.

Has anyone else noticed it?

After some more viewing, I feel that black color now shows a bit of greenish tint in it, especially on video-based material (BBC TV series DVDs, for example), which I did not see on firmwares 362 and 364. I will first re-calibrate the TV with DVE and if this still continues, I guess I'll revert back to firmware 364. I remember similar thing happening in past on my Denon DVD player when Denon came out with a firmware upgrade to further tone-down the macroblocking.

After some more viewing, I feel that black color now shows a bit of greenish tint in it, especially on video-based material (BBC TV series DVDs, for example), which I did not see on firmwares 362 and 364.I have recently upgraded to FW366a. Last evening I watched the marvelous DVD "An Unfinished Life," which has exquisite color and shadow detail -- lots of deep shadows. Moreover, I switched from HDMI/480p to component/480i halfway through (better for this film). I didn't see any evidence of this shadow discoloration. On this film I would have noticed! When I get a chance today or tomorrow, I'll check out HDMI/1080i and report back if anything is different.

I'm very sensitive to color anomalies, and I have not seen any trace since the upgrade to 366a. In fact, I'm still not sure I know what was changed with 366 over 364.

HDMI Color Space: YCbCr 4:4:4



Why set it to YCbCr 4:4:4 when the DVD is encoded at either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0? Just curious?

I have recently upgraded to FW366a. Last evening I watched the marvelous DVD "An Unfinished Life," which has exquisite color and shadow detail -- lots of deep shadows. Moreover, I switched from HDMI/480p to component/480i halfway through (better for this film). I didn't see any evidence of this shadow discoloration. On this film I would have noticed! When I get a chance today or tomorrow, I'll check out HDMI/1080i and report back if anything is different.

I'm very sensitive to color anomalies, and I have not seen any trace since the upgrade to 366a. In fact, I'm still not sure I know what was changed with 366 over 364.

Thanks, KenTech. I'll also be doing further testing and will report back. Until I recalibrate the TV, the oberrvation I reported can not be said conclusive since we don't know what's corrected in successive firmwares, and theoretically, recalibration of TV might be required. Besides, display also plays some role. For example, my Panny is known for worsening macroblocking with Faroudja-based players. So many variables...

Why set it to YCbCr 4:4:4 when the DVD is encoded at either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0? Just curious?

So that the MPEG decoder inside the DVD player upsamples this to 4:4:4 for output. Some believe upampling helps reduce degradation during internal processing of data.

Does anyone know if selecting YCbCr 4:4:4 over HDMI limits the bitdepth per component sample? HDMI 1.0 supports up to 12 bits per sample at 4:2:2, but only 8 bits per sample at 4:4:4. The extra bitdepth could be more beneficial to the internal processing of the S97 than the marginal improvement of 4:4:4, but only if the S97 carries it through to the HDMI interface.

Owners of Panasonic displays may want to try changing black level settings when watching disks that exhibit an annoying level of macroblocking/green and purple blacks/crawling wall colors.

I've carefully calibrated and after the latest firmware upgrade, recalibrated using DVE with black level set to enhanced on the display and lighter on the S97. Macroblocking was reduced but by no means gone.

The early posts in the S97 Brain dump state and the S97 manual implies that the S97black level setting has no effect when using an HDMI connection. That seems not to be correct (at least not since the last two firmware updates-now at 366).

I find that changing the black level setting on the display and/or the S97 to dark, can dramatically reduce or even eliminate macroblocking. The trade off for this slight loss of detail in dark areas of the picture is sometimes a more dramatic, punchier image.

Some films really benefit from this and most do not suffer.

I have not tried re-calibrating with the changed black levels.

Last night I watch V is for Vendetta, which is nearly macroblock free at my normal setting, but looked really nice with either the display or the S97 black level set to Dark.

Switching between up-converted and 480 also helps with some disks.

Enabling CATS on the display also can reduce macroblocking, although the overall changes to the picture may not suit you (it is not my favorite-a bit on the dim side for me).

Does anyone know if selecting YCbCr 4:4:4 over HDMI limits the bitdepth per component sample? HDMI 1.0 supports up to 12 bits per sample at 4:2:2, but only 8 bits per sample at 4:4:4. The extra bitdepth could be more beneficial to the internal processing of the S97 than the marginal improvement of 4:4:4, but only if the S97 carries it through to the HDMI interface.

Excellent point.

Read my earlier post and the answer regarding ycbcr 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 here, u will need to scroll down to my post :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=501352&page=62&pp=30

If you click on the number of your post, you can link directly to it (for the future.)

Does anyone know if selecting YCbCr 4:4:4 over HDMI limits the bitdepth per component sample? HDMI 1.0 supports up to 12 bits per sample at 4:2:2, but only 8 bits per sample at 4:4:4. The extra bitdepth could be more beneficial to the internal processing of the S97 than the marginal improvement of 4:4:4, but only if the S97 carries it through to the HDMI interface.

Why should it? Selecting 4:4:4 in the player will not create more color gradation (or bit depth) of the source from the DVD disk itself; it will simply use more than 8-bits to accurately reproduce the original color signal from the disk. The original color information (MPEG-2) is still 8-bit and the HDMI transmitter chip will output whatever color depth is fed from the DVD.

...The early posts in the S97 Brain dump state and the S97 manual implies that the S97black level setting has no effect when using an HDMI connection. That seems not to be correct (at least not since the last two firmware updates-now at 366).

This is interesting. I was under the same impression. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll do some experimentation during the weekend if I get time.

I find that changing the black level setting on the display and/or the S97 to dark, can dramatically reduce or even eliminate macroblocking. The trade off for this slight loss of detail in dark areas of the picture is sometimes a more dramatic, punchier image.

I noticed this too on some DVDs (Region-1, film-based material).

...Some films really benefit from this and most do not suffer.

I have not tried re-calibrating with the changed black levels.

Last night I watch V is for Vendetta, which is nearly macroblock free at my normal setting, but looked really nice with either the display or the S97 black level set to Dark.

Switching between up-converted and 480 also helps with some disks.

Enabling CATS on the display also can reduce macroblocking, although the overall changes to the picture may not suit you (it is not my favorite-a bit on the dim side for me).

I just received my DVD - V for Vendetta. Thanks for posting your observations, I will try to experiment further.

Why should it? Selecting 4:4:4 in the player will not create more color gradation (or bit depth) of the source from the DVD disk itself; it will simply use more than 8-bits to accurately reproduce the original color signal from the disk. The original color information (MPEG-2) is still 8-bit and the HDMI transmitter chip will output whatever color depth is fed from the DVD.You obviously don't understand what 4:4:4 means. The nomenclature 4:2:0, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 do not refer to bit depth. Instead, these describe the frequency of the chroma channel samples, as a ratio to the luma channel samples.

What I was pointing out is that there is a tradeoff here, over HDMI 1.0. You can either transmit a higher frequency of chroma samples (4:4:4 at 8 bits per sample), or a higher bit depth of chroma samples (4:2:2 at 12 bits per sample). So in effect, you got it backwards: 4:4:4 implies fewer bits per sample than 4:2:2, at least over HDMI 1.0.

Note that both 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 represent more data than is on the DVD itself, which is 4:2:0 at 8 bits per sample. So we are talking about the potential benefit to internal processing & upscaling. The question becomes: does the S97's internal processing benefit more from increased frequency of chroma samples, or increased bit depth? I don't know; that's what I was asking.

I took the time to do some careful testing last night using Avia test patterns and some good video material. I could detect no difference whatsoever between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 settings for HDMI. RGB produces black crush and should be avoided on most displays. I suspect this whole 4:2:2 vs 4:4:4 question is moot.

-Brian

You obviously don't understand what 4:4:4 means.

It should have been "4:2:2" and not "4:4:4" in my post.

The nomenclature 4:2:0, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 do not refer to bit depth.

Indeed. But the number of bits per component would suggest bit depth; right? So 12-bits in 4:2:2 would suggest higher color depth, wouldn't it?

So in effect, you got it backwards: 4:4:4 implies fewer bits per sample than 4:2:2, at least over HDMI 1.0.

It should have been "4:2:2" and not "4:4:4" in my post. Hope this would straighten it up.

So we are talking about the potential benefit to internal processing & upscaling. The question becomes: does the S97's internal processing benefit more from increased frequency of chroma samples, or increased bit depth? I don't know; that's what I was asking.

This comes to the question whether oversampling (more than Nyquist rate) helps at all. If I may cite an analogy with audio, there are CD players and processors that would do 16x or 32x oversampling and many audiophile claim they hear the difference. I don't.

I took the time to do some careful testing last night using Avia test patterns and some good video material. I could detect no difference whatsoever between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 settings for HDMI.

I have tried 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 settings on S97 in past; and I saw no difference. Others might. I still keep 4:4:4 since internal oversampling, if won't help, wouldn't hurt either. But I don't insist this be the right setting or vice versa.

I didn't see any evidence of this shadow discoloration. On this film I would have noticed! When I get a chance today or tomorrow, I'll check out HDMI/1080i and report back if anything is different.I have just done this with both 16:9 and 4:3 DVD program material, trying 480i/component, 480p/HDMI and 1080i/HDMI. There were no detectable colorations in the perfectly gray-black shadows of the source with the recent 366a "custom" FW update.

This comes to the question whether oversampling (more than Nyquist rate) helps at all. If I may cite an analogy with audio, there are CD players and processors that would do 16x or 32x oversampling and many audiophile claim they hear the difference. I don't.It does because it vastly simplifies the filtering of the data after it has been d/a-converted. The filter cutoff frequencies can be pushed way above the human hearing range, resulting in fewer response and phase irregularities withing hearing range. But after passing a certain ratio, say 4:1 (192kHz), higher may not improve the sound but only be a "golden-ears" marketing ploy.

I have no definite idea how oversampling affects DVD video, but I would assume the extraordinary 216MHz oversampling of the S97 results in more-refined rendition of fine detail, resulting especially in less ringing. Sharp-cutoff post-processing filters, having their own nightmarish phase and ringing problems, wouldn't be required. The S97 seems capable of resolving ultra-fine detail from DVDs to a degree I find amazing, most visible from 480i/component outputs, which have the least digital post-processing.

....I have no definite idea how oversampling affects DVD video, but I would assume the extraordinary 216MHz oversampling of the S97 results in more-refined rendition of fine detail, resulting especially in less ringing. ..

After re-reading Brian's post, I think Brian is probably fine with oversampling, but what he wonders about is if this internal oversampling helps in giving better picture when S97 is set to 4:4:4 or when it's set to 4:2:2. But as he observes, he sees no difference in picture either way (neither did I). And I don't know any technical justification of one over the other.

With respect to 543a I was wondering if anyone has noticed any improvement in the clarity of the zoom function with this firmware; this has been my biggest gripe with this player as I still have a few non anamorphic dvd's.

Also, has there been any change in the speed of the layer change?

There won't be a next time. I don't even own an S97 !

Maybe YOU will provide this service for the newbies in here. I don't have time for such nonsense.

Gladly. Because most of us, unlike you, enjoy helping others instead of ridiculing them first. Tom you need to seriously check your ego at the door. Its not appreciated or welcome here. Even you were a newbie once, get over yourself.

Gladly. Because most of us, unlike you, enjoy helping others instead of ridiculing them first. Tom you need to seriously check your ego at the door. Its not appreciated or welcome here. Even you were a newbie once, get over yourself.Mike, would you just let it alone? Along with the aptitude and ability to do what Tom has done for us grateful S97 owners, goes a bit of attitude. So what? How does this threaten you? Just let it be!

I've fixed this behavior issue of the direct setting keys for the S295/S49 series of players. Maybe someone with proper skills can apply this modification to the S97 firmware :)If I could, I would do it in a heartbeat! Like those (formerly) unskippable logos and messages, this is a continual irritation. Your S52 etc. fans might apprteciate it, too, since I'll bet it's the same in the S52 menus.

Should not be too hardHah! That's what I tell people who want to focus and do precision color convergence on their Sony CRT-TVs. See my obsessive Sony Service Codes thread, also in avsforum under direct-view TVs. Video-image processing? No problem. But I have no aptitude or skill for disassembling firmware code and divining the author's purpose.

If people also start posting nonsense about my firmware versions . . . that is another reason for me to be pissed. . . . I don't care about the current responses because it's just the same nonsense as that from the other posts.I know, but surely you shouldn't have expected more! Nobody here can likely engage you at your level of programming expertise. Nothing here is important enough for you to be pissed. This thread is as it is. You have no control how folks respond, and high expectations are bound to be eventually dashed. No one has stated a single substantive criticism of your firmware mods -- only praise and thanks, AFIK. So what's not to like about that? :D

In my own forum, I just roll my eyes and ignore what little crap occurs. It bothers me for a few minutes. (I'm trying not to be thin-skinned, but . . .) For every 100 people who read and benefit from that forum, it's the few who say "thanks" who make my day -- but I'd do it anyway. Sharpens my technical writing, and I know I'm Doing Good for some folks, even if I don't personally hear from them.

Tom9999, I for one would just like to say THANK YOU for your awesome firmware mods! Please don't disappear because of one unappreciative person. There are many more of us who silently appreciate what you've been doing.

Tom9999, Another big thanks. Ignore the negative posts.

Can this thread PLEASE move on to constructive discourse? There's been enough ego stroking, ego checking and snide comments back and forth already.

I also noted that when I set it region-free and RCE-free, I no longer can access to the Picture menu (Display-->Picture) and it shows like "Picture *" and the message at the bottom says something like "The player can not do this at this time."

Did you find solution to this problem? Anyone else suffering from same problem with 366a set to region and RCE-free? I haven't upgraded mine to 366a version yet as i'm waiting for comments if it is working 100% or not.

This is the kind of nonsense I'm talking about. The "*" in a setting indicates that the players EEPROM has not been properly reset. This can usually be solved by re-initializing the settings from the setup menu and has nothin to do with the firmware itself.

Tom
Thank Tom. That's exactly what i was hoping to hear. I'll upgrade mine to 366a very soon.

Well...

If you consider users with 450 posts as newbies you might be true but obviously you are also one of these guys who don't read what has been written before and why it has been written - otherwise you would know what you are talking about ;)

Tom

Post count is not an indication of knowledge. As you yourself should know. Just because someone has 450+ posts doesn't mean they know anything about a particular dvd player or its capabilities. Coming into a forum sniping at other users because someone posts a question is not constructive nor helpful.

If you are rude to all the folks asking questions eventually people will stop asking questions and go away. Not a way to keep a thread going.

If people are not able to read my posts and start trying to promote themselves by starting a game like "I found a new firmware, if you want it drop me a private message ...", that's enough reason for me to complain about it.

Which you should do, but with more diplomacy instead of getting all uppity about it.

If people also start posting nonsense about my firmware versions (statements which are simply not true and could be avoided by reading what has been posted earlier - I just remind you of the PAL issue guy who missed the "solved problem" post...) that is another reason for me to be pissed.

So instead of trying to EXPLAIN to someone you rip them a new one because they are not 'leet' enough for you. But lets be real, you took work that another person did. So don't act like this is entirely your game either. Yes you gave that person credit, but at the end of the day you are just moving forward someone elses work.

Mike, would you just let it alone? Along with the aptitude and ability to do what Tom has done for us grateful S97 owners, goes a bit of attitude. So what? How does this threaten you? Just let it be!

Gladly, but Tom spews contempt and this is just not excuseable. His responses impact everyone in this thread. He SHOULD be thanked for his firmware modifications but he should not be given a free pass for his attitude.

For example, when I asked other upgraders if they could access the Picture menu when set region-free (since I was not able to access it and was getting a "*"), instead of labeling me a newbie with 450 posts (which I very well may be), and instead of considering it an attempt of undermining (which in no way I was doing) the firmware mod, the simple answer could have been a plain one-word advice: "re-initialize." But instead, this was termed as "nonsense people here post" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8198770&&#post8198770). I don't do MN103 assembly nor am I expert in IDA Pro and I am sure most here are not assembly programmers as well. Anyway, I am deleting all my previous posts which could have been an inadvertent cause for undue anger/contempt/name-calling and so on. Let's stick to the main business. Peace.

Did you ever ask for a "solution" to your "problem". You asked for people experiencing the same situation as yourself...

This means those who faced similar behavior might offer some clues on how they resolved it.

If your computer behaves weird you will press the reset button. If you DVD player does the same you will re-initialize it. Is it really that hard ??

No, it's not that hard. Everything is easy once the solution is found.

Tom, I will be sorry to see you go. I used and appreciated your work, and clearly do did many others. I've also done some application development and I know that we end users can sometimes seem unreasonable in our suggestions and demands and support needs. That being said I don't for a moment believe that that there is, or was, any knowing intent to dengigrate your work.

Standing to the side as I am, most of these posts have the look of people who are talking past each other, perhaps each one assuming something is understood or should be understood by the other.

But this give and take, teaching and learning and, yes, misunderstanding is is at the very heart of public forums.

I think and olive branch was extended, even if not in the manner some would prefer. Perhpas you could find it in your heart to accept it, it would be a graceful and civil act.

It is immaterial to me if you built on the work of others, we all do it. Someone will build on yours. There is a phrase that fits here, ""If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

So Tom, you do fine work and I hope you do more. Come back here from time to time.

He SHOULD be thanked for his firmware modifications but he should not be given a free pass for his attitude.

Amen. Good riddance. I see no reason to suck up to his "greatness".

There's always at least one person on a message board who genuinely has a lot of knowledge about a specific item/topic but has a terrible attitude towards almost everyone and thinks they're King **** to boot....I personally don't need help from someone if they're going to be a prick.

Goodbye, Farewell, Amen.
;)

Goodbye, Farewell, Amen.
;)

I take it that was the end of that topic and the end of Tom. More than that the deponent sayeth not. :( ;) :)

Amen. Good riddance. I see no reason to suck up to his "greatness".
There's always at least one person on a message board who genuinely has a lot of knowledge about a specific item/topic but has a terrible attitude towards almost everyone and thinks they're King **** to boot....I personally don't need help from someone if they're going to be a prick.
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen.
;)

Don't you guy's understand that you can also say good riddance to future S97 improvements? Great :(

I can easily understand Tom's point of view. I mean there are a lot of peoples who don't read user manual (or can't read at all??) and they keep asking questions they could find solution from user manual. Come on.

You can just keep checking his site, that he mentioned a couple of posts back, for any new FW hacks.

http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/

Hello!
This link is modification firmware Pana S97.

http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=&func=view&catid=10&id=612

Kino Joe ;)

Don't you guy's understand that you can also say good riddance to future S97 improvements? Great :(

I can easily understand Tom's point of view. I mean there are a lot of peoples who don't read user manual (or can't read at all??) and they keep asking questions they could find solution from user manual. Come on.

Sorry. I completely understand your sense of loss..

I once had a girlfriend that was so stunningly beautiful that I put up with her crappy attitude because I liked the residual benefits. Eventually, I came to have no self respect for myself for putting up with her crap, threw a twenty down on the table in a restaurant for her a cab ride home and walked the hell out of there. Same goes here. Great benefits but a crappy attitude. He didn't come onto the site to help or learn how he could make other improvements that would be of benefit to everyone, he came here to gloat and to take the glory for the work he did after another poster on the dcevolution.net site told him in a post that he'd listed the firmware fix here. He was seeking ego stroking. Period. Other than that, I liked the guy. :D

This thread survived for almost two years before Tom showed up recently and stirred things up with his arrogance and condescending remarks. Was he really here to help people or to stroke his own ego? He couldn't handle the feedback about his attitude so now he's taking his toys and leaving the playground. Too bad! Anyway, I predict this thread will survive without him. ;)
My personal opinion is that for the first time in two years this thread was getting somewhere when Tom showed up. :(
I honestly believe he was here to help, but he was suprised that most of the peoples here needed only help with reading, not with real problems.

Other than the hacks, has anyone determined what exactly firmware 543a does?

Specifically, I was wondering if anyone has noticed any improvement in the clarity of the zoom function with this firmware; this has been my biggest gripe with this player as I still have a few non anamorphic dvd's.

Also, has there been any change in the speed of the layer change?

Also, I have read conflicting comments on loss of image detail; has consensus been reached on this issue yet?

Panasonic hasn't mentioned precisely what 543 (and 366) do/solve, but I don't see any loss of image details with 366a; the picture is very good, macroblocking is greatly reduced, the UOP is disabled so you can bypass the annoying unwanted ad material (using Top Menu key on remote) that might come with the disk. The layer change was not that slow to begin with, do you find it slow (not as fast as Denon DVD-2900 though)? Can't comment on the zoom function since I don't use it often. Why don't you try it out yourself and revert back if you don't like what you see?

Panasonic hasn't mentioned precisely what 543 (and 366) do/solve, but I don't see any loss of image details with 366a; the picture is very good, macroblocking is greatly reduced, the UOP is disabled so you can bypass the annoying unwanted ad material (using Top Menu key on remote) that might come with the disk. <snip>I upgraded from 364 to 366, and I haven't a clue what might have changed. Except for Tom's mods in 366a (thanks!), I detect no difference, certainly no steps backwards. 480p over HDMI looks the same, and 1080i/HDMI is still less defined than 480p/HDMI in exactly the same way. It would be nice to know what to look for, so if anyone contacts Panasonic or detects a difference . . .

I am so, SO pleased at the defeat of UOPs!

Thanks guys,

So with the hacked firmware I can revert back to any of the previous firmware versions?

I'm asking because I currently have 540 and I'm quite happy with it so if things don't go well it would be comforting to know I can revert back to it.

So with the hacked firmware I can revert back to any of the previous firmware versions?Yes. Making that possible was part of the mod.

Hi,

I read now through the entire S97 Firmware and Brain Dump Threads, and I think I now understand why my 2 weeks ago bought S97 US model does not play any PAL DVDs (which I hoped it did, that was the reason I bought it in US and reading through the above threads I saw confirmation that it does (but only the old models ;-(. But unfortunately I did not read to the end to realize that PAL was blocked by firmware starting April 05.

First I was not sure whether it might be a Region Code Issue only, but the threads taught me that it is not and also neither the PAL Region free DVDs did play, nor did the PAL Region Code 1 ones. It is purely a PAL issue. And it is definitely a S97 issue, because my TV is capable of displaying NTSC and PAL (and NTSC DVDs work perfect, by the way).

The firmware seems to block PAL, although the hardware would allow it. This is what I am getting. Questions coming to my mind now are the following:

1. If hardware is same in EU and US regarding theoretical PAL capability, wouldn't I be able to enable PAL on the US Model, when I flash it with the EU firmware (at the end of the day, S97 in EU supports both, NTSC and PAL)?

2. Did anyone try this already and can share experiences?

3. If proposal in Question 1 is a NOGO, because it would kill the US S97, does anyone know whether someone works on hacking the US firmware, to enable PAL again?

3. If my proposal is total nonsense, do you see any other way of getting my new S97 US Model to show PAL DVDs?

For reference, please see [Post 1785], [Post 1849-55].

Looking forward to your comments!

I went from 362 to 366a and i don't notice almost any difference (other than 366a allows RCE and UOP which is a big bonus). Macroblocking is maybe tiny bit worse with 366a than it was with 362. Sharpness is about same. I'm outputting 720p RGB HDMI to DVI and display device is Optoma H78.

JIGESH

I did the region free trick and I can normally access the picture menu.
Just silly to ask but If I remember well you must have a disc to access the picture menu.
Are you certain you had a disc inside?

Thanks guys! Tom has officially discontinued all support for S97.

I suggest that all who involved in that incident goto see thread mentioned below and apologise him for their behaviour, and maybe there is a thin chance to get some support in future.

http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=685&catid=10

JIGESH

I did the region free trick and I can normally access the picture menu.
Just silly to ask but If I remember well you must have a disc to access the picture menu.
Are you certain you had a disc inside?

Thanks, Fortis. I can now access the picture menu (without any disc inside). I re-installed the 366a and everything was fine. Re-initializing could also help as Tom had suggested earlier. Everything works perfect now, excellent mod; highly recommended.

Thanks guys! Tom has officially discontinued all support for S97.

I suggest that all who involved in that incident goto see thread mentioned below and apologise him for their behaviour, and maybe there is a thin chance to get some support in future.

http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=685&catid=10


Good. I refuse to apologize to someone like that. I'm glad he's taken his ball and gone home, it makes the playground a much nicer place to hang out in.

Take a look at what has been added. Region free. Hmmm...ok, so what. What minority of folks really need this? If they really needed it they wouldn't have bought the S97 to start with, they would have bought an oppo or something else. Skipping right to the main menu. Ok, yeah its nice but we've all dealt with not being able to do it for a decade now? Again, it really doesn't impact anyone in any real measureable way.

I surely won't be losing any sleep over this.

He had a horrible attitude, got called on it and then went crying back home. Good riddance.

Take a look at what has been added. Region free. Hmmm...okHow about UOP-free? That seems to matter to a whole lot of folks.He had a horrible attitude, got called on it and then went crying back home.What has finally come to disturb me is the self-obsessed hypocracy of it. "Moderator, please cancel my account." Hah! One hour after Lebowski posts a critical comment, Tom replies. Tom can't stay away! This forum is important to him.

Look, if someone with a certain aptitude and talent wants to offer something to grateful takers gratis, there has to be a reward. (The "goodness of his heart" means that generosity has to be its own reward; you either get it, or you don't.) Most folks who contribute true effort know of folks' gratitude, and the puerile attacks of a few, while temporarily upsetting (sometimes not), is easily ignored. The spoken gratitude of a few is quite sufficient.

Tom's insults mean nothing -- unless, of course, he's hitting home! What is more important, I believe, is that his hoped-for reward is unknown to us ordinary folks. No matter what, I believe he would have found one reason or another to gather up his marbles and leave in a huff! For me, that kind of response is incomprehensible and nearly sociopathic, and there is no need to further engage him.

Tom is going to lurk here as he sees fit and snipe at anyone who doesn't meet his unspoken expectations. Ferchrissake, IGNORE IT; he'll get bored and go away.

And all you geniuses who seem not to value Tom's decompiling and modification of the Panasonic S97 firmware -- you are working on it yourselves, right?

Good. I refuse to apologize to someone like that. I'm glad he's taken his ball and gone home, it makes the playground a much nicer place to hang out in.

Take a look at what has been added. Region free. Hmmm...ok, so what. What minority of folks really need this? If they really needed it they wouldn't have bought the S97 to start with, they would have bought an oppo or something else. Skipping right to the main menu. Ok, yeah its nice but we've all dealt with not being able to do it for a decade now? Again, it really doesn't impact anyone in any real measureable way.

I surely won't be losing any sleep over this.

He had a horrible attitude, got called on it and then went crying back home. Good riddance.

I can't stand when people DO apologize to a baby like that. I stopped dealing with guys like him a LONG time ago.......like in elementary school.

I can't understand how one AVSForum member can single-handledly convince someone to stop supporting a very much appreciated firmware modification.

It's like Bruce Springsteen giving up live performances because he got a few pieces of hate mail out of a thousand well-wishers and awestruck fans.

A true artist would not give a damn and continue working on his true passion. He would not let anyone get in his way. He would appreciate his fans - embrace them, talk with them, laugh with them. And turn on his thick hide when he receives underdeserved criticism and heckling. He will take them for what they are worth - absolutely nothing.

It is a true sign of a mature and self-aware artist.

I can't understand how one AVSForum member can single-handledly convince someone to stop supporting a very much appreciated firmware modification.

It's like Bruce Springsteen giving up live performances because he got a few pieces of hate mail out of a thousand well-wishers and awestruck fans.

A true artist would not give a damn and continue working on his true passion. He would not let anyone get in his way. He would appreciate his fans - embrace them, talk with them, laugh with them. And turn on his thick hide when he receives underdeserved criticism and heckling. He will take them for what they are worth - absolutely nothing.

It is a true sign of a mature and self-aware artist.

Exactly! ;)

Anyone else noticed problems with 366? After testing it few days i've noticed that there are some green push, macroblocking if quite pronounced and sharpness could be better (objects on the background often look out of focus, this wasn't the case with 362).

Anyone else noticed problems with 366? After testing it few days i've noticed that there are some green push, macroblocking if quite pronounced and sharpness could be better (objects on the background often look out of focus, this wasn't the case with 362).

I had noticed a little green push (not as severe as I had on one of my Denons) with 366. But it was only on video-based DVDs, like BBC TV shows. No green push on Region 1 movie DVDs thus far. Macroblocking is greatly reduced, but not fully gone. Sharpness is about the same as 364. Some had complained reduced sharpness in 364 compared to 362 - but my eyes could not catch it to conclude in either way (I have a small 42" EDTV screen). I think when you get time, you may try re-calibrating your display and if green-push is still bothering you, you may consider going back to 362. Since Panasonic doesn't say what they fixed in their successive firmwares, it's difficult to guess which fix could be the cause of the behavior you saw.

I had noticed a little green push (not as severe as I had on one of my Denons) with 366. But it was only on video-based DVDs, like BBC TV shows. No green push on Region 1 movie DVDs thus far. Macroblocking is greatly reduced, but not fully gone.

Maybe 366 adresses some NTSC (region 1) problems. I'm watching mostly PAL (region 2) movies and now after having 366a installed for few days i can say for sure that macroblocking is worse than it was with 362. I never had any green push problems before 366a.

Sharpness is about the same as 364. Some had complained reduced sharpness in 364 compared to 362 - but my eyes could not catch it to conclude in either way (I have a small 42" EDTV screen).
I have seen several complaints about 364 reduced sharpness but there are very little reports about 366. Your comments about 364 being about equal in sharpness with 366 helps me to make desicion.
I have projector throwing around 96" size picture so i'm able to see difference in sharpness much easier.

I think i will return to 362, hopefully Tom's downgrading function works. Bad thing is that I will be missing that UOP free function, but i quess he did release 362 with remote region free option, which is most important.

I think i will return to 362, hopefully Tom's downgrading function works. Bad thing is that I will be missing that UOP free function, but i quess he did release 362 with remote region free option, which is most important.

Let's know if you could revert to 362. Here's link to Tom's thread (http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=42&func=view&catid=10&id=415) on other forum that might be helpful to you. One poster (via PM) mentioned he couldn't go back to 540 from 543a. He could go back upto 541 but not to his original 540. Probably because 540 with mod to allow "downgrade" is not available(?). There shouldn't be such problem with 362 because the above link provides appropriate links for 362 firmware.

Nothin on this planet will change this decision. If you wanna modify your S97 behavior you will have to do this YOURSELF or find another idiot who will be wasting his time for a device he doesn't even own.


Tom

Tom, feel free to pop up anytime. http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/violent/sterb246.gif

I have seen several complaints about 364 reduced sharpness but there are very little reports about 366. Your comments about 364 being about equal in sharpness with 366 helps me to make desicion.
I have projector throwing around 96" size picture so i'm able to see difference in sharpness much easier.

I think i will return to 362, hopefully Tom's downgrading function works. Bad thing is that I will be missing that UOP free function, but i quess he did release 362 with remote region free option, which is most important.Before I upgraded from 362 (Panasonic) to 366a (Tom), I had matched the "look" of the HDMI/480p image very carefully to the component 480i/image on critical material, using the service-mode settings on my Sony CRT-TV. This would include apparent color rendition. After the upgrade, I can switch between the two still without seeing any new differences.

So I, for one, would love to hear if, after reverting to 362, you now do not see the things you don't like about 366. True, I don't do upscaling; but I imagine the mods that purportedly deal with MB are for the Genesis chip's deinterlacing, maybe not just the upscaling.

Anyway, please post an update on what you see when you get around to reverting to 362.

So I, for one, would love to hear if, after reverting to 362, you now do not see the things you don't like about 366. True, I don't do upscaling; but I imagine the mods that purportedly deal with MB are for the Genesis chip's deinterlacing, maybe not just the upscaling.

Anyway, please post an update on what you see when you get around to reverting to 362.
Last night i finally "upgraded" from 366a back to 362 (Tom's with remote region free mod), and i was immediately rewarded with improved picture quality. What a relief it was to see that downgrading does actually work.

Now i have again that sharp and detailed image i'm used to watch for one year. Also macroblocking / compression artefacts don't jump out so badly as they did with 366a. Also 366a caused annoying greenish tint especially faces looked awful at times, now it's gone. I checked DVE color bars and green bar did look different with 366a.

What causes differences we see i can only quess that picture size is one thing (i have 96") and display technology we use is another (CRT is usually more forgiving). And of course that i'm mostly watching PAL region 2 movies and i always output 720p upscaled image from S97.

Last night i finally "upgraded" from 366a back to 362 (Tom's with remote region free mod), and i was immediately rewarded with improved picture quality. What a relief it was to see that downgrading does actually work.

Now i have again that sharp and detailed image i'm used to watch for one year. Also macroblocking / compression artefacts don't jump out so badly as they did with 366a. Also 366a caused annoying greenish tint especially faces looked awful at times, now it's gone. I checked DVE color bars and green bar did look different with 366a.

What causes differences we see i can only quess that picture size is one thing (i have 96") and display technology we use is another (CRT is usually more forgiving). And of course that i'm mostly watching PAL region 2 movies and i always output 720p upscaled image from S97.

Thanks for the update and glad to know you are happy with the reversal in firmware. The green tint issue still puzzles me though I haven't noticed sharpness issue due to my smaller screen than yours. By the way, more sharp means less details (we often say vice versa). If the greenish tint keeps on bothering me, I might revert back, too. Not sure at this stage though...I am also eyeing Denon 3930...upgraditis acutis.. :p

Last night i finally "upgraded" from 366a back to 362 (Tom's with remote region free mod), and i was immediately rewarded with improved picture quality. What a relief it was to see that downgrading does actually work.

Now i have again that sharp and detailed image i'm used to watch for one year. Also macroblocking / compression artefacts don't jump out so badly as they did with 366a. Also 366a caused annoying greenish tint especially faces looked awful at times, now it's gone. I checked DVE color bars and green bar did look different with 366a.

What causes differences we see i can only quess that picture size is one thing (i have 96") and display technology we use is another (CRT is usually more forgiving). And of course that i'm mostly watching PAL region 2 movies and i always output 720p upscaled image from S97.

Just curious....did you ever try the 364 FW?
Looks like you went from 362 to 366 and had issues. Just wondering since I'm at 364 having jumped from 360 and saw an improvement on my FP and 92" screen.

Glad to hear the downgrade process works! :)
-t

Also 366a caused annoying greenish tint especially faces looked awful at times, now it's gone. I checked DVE color bars and green bar did look different with 366a.Confirmed -- and I think I may have discovered soemthing relevant to this "greenish" problem. I'd be willing to bet it's a bug in the firmware, not likely caused by Tom's mods, but who knows . . ?

I have a 36XS955 Sony CRT TV, which accepts 480p, 720p, and 1080i as HDMI-input video modes. I just checked with both a regular DVD and the DVE calibration DVD, and 720p from my S97/366a now comes across with a definite greenish cast. So I entered service mode for my set, and checked the matrix-defining parameter -- not the detailed red and green settings, just the choice between the one for SD and the other one for all HD video.

Turns out, the TV chooses the correct matrix (code CXA2171/MTRX=1) for 1080i, and the "other" one for 480p, but 720p now invokes the matrix for SD, not HD -- a big error! If I manually switch it to HD, all is well. I certainly don't recall this being a problem before the FW upgrade. 720p used to look just like 1080i in color.

If this is the only bug in 366a FW, I'm not much personaly affected. I don't ever use 720p, since my set is 1080i-native (if I did upscale), and I prefer 480p on HDMI anyway, letting the TV do the upscaling. Better overall picture, frame-cadence problems aside.

But for someone for whom 720p is native, e.g. Lebowski, it's a Big Deal. It's a hassle for me to revert again to 362, and then then go back to 366a (love the UOP-kill!), so I won't repeat-verify it. But I'm willing to put money on a new bug in 366a, with this matrix mismatch. Can't say if it's also in 364.

Does anyone know: Is it the responsibility of the digital source to include a color-matrix flag for HD? I.e., the set doesn't merely flip the matrix when it sees 720p or 1080i, but looks for this flag? This would explain a lot.

Meanwhile, looks to me like 1080i and 480p folks have nothing to worry about, unless they are unhappy with the 366a image quality in some other way. (I'm not.)

By the way, more sharp means less details (we often say vice versa). If the greenish tint keeps on bothering me, I might revert back, too. Not sure at this stage though...
I know what you mean, but that was not the case here. 366a was definitely missing fine detail that 362 was showing without "over-sharpening".

Just curious....did you ever try the 364 FW?

No. I read so many reports saying there's details loss with 364, so i decided to skip that one.

Turns out, the TV chooses the correct matrix (code CXA2171/MTRX=1) for 1080i, and the "other" one for 480p, but 720p now invokes the matrix for SD, not HD -- a big error! If I manually switch it to HD, all is well. I certainly don't recall this being a problem before the FW upgrade. 720p used to look just like 1080i in color.

You confirmed exactly what i was thinking. There's a bug in the color decoding setting in the 366 fw. After watching couple of films after reverting back to 362 i can say that color is still excellent now. My projector does not allow manually set SD/HD color matrix, so i cannot test this but i'm sure this is the case as DVE color bar's showed clearly that green color bar looked different in 366a (and this is what wrong color matrix causes).

Does anyone know: Is it the responsibility of the digital source to include a color-matrix flag for HD? I.e., the set doesn't merely flip the matrix when it sees 720p or 1080i, but looks for this flag? This would explain a lot.

I think SD/HD color matrix is not encoded in DVD, it's DVD-player and/or display device that chooses color matrix depending on signal type. If it is YCbCr, display device also have to match color matrix DVD-player is using. In case of RGB (like i have) it all happens in the DVD-player).

Hello!

I was curious to check your impressions Big Lebowski, and tried tonight to downgrade to 541/362 version. With my past upgrade cd, no way to make this operation. My player don't show me the advertise message to proceed upgrade but begins a very short process. I've had a "completed" please eject message, but was still in 543 version.
I've tried to burn another cd and it was the same... Any comments?
Have someone else already complted a downgrade operation?

. . . tried tonight to downgrade to 541/362 version. With my past upgrade cd, no way to make this operation.If the downgrade is prohibited at all, it is prohibited by the currently installed firmware. Be sure you have one of Tom's modified versions installed, or upgrade to it. If you installed the Panasonic "straight" version of the firmware upgrade, downgrading is prohibited.

i've got 543a version (tom's modified).

i've got 543a version (tom's modified).
Are you using Tom's modified 541 that allows downgrading.
Here is where I got it. I haven't tried it yet.
http://rapidshare.de/files/26211464/Original_Firmware_S97_362_541_Downgrading_Allowed.ZIP.html

I've finally managed downgrading to 541 with this version (thanks Daniel Eddy). It meens you can't downgrade to an original panasonic version? strange...
To complete my review, i disagree with Big Lebowski's tests. Cannot see any differences in sharpness between 541 and 543 (i'm actually back to 543a). I use sanyo z4 projector on 180cm wide screen, player in 720P with PAL discs. To my eyes picture with 543a seems a little bit proofer and cleaner.

If the downgrade is prohibited at all, it is prohibited by the currently installed firmware. Be sure you have one of Tom's modified versions installed, or upgrade to it. If you installed the Panasonic "straight" version of the firmware upgrade, downgrading is prohibited.
No, it is other way around. Firmware you are about to install from CD _have to_ allow downgrading. Original Panny firmwares only allow upgrading, not downgrading.

I've finally managed downgrading to 541 with this version (thanks Daniel Eddy). It meens you can't downgrade to an original panasonic version? strange...

Original Panny firmwares only allow upgrading, not downgrading.

To complete my review, i disagree with Big Lebowski's tests. Cannot see any differences in sharpness between 541 and 543 (i'm actually back to 543a). I use sanyo z4 projector on 180cm wide screen, player in 720P with PAL discs. To my eyes picture with 543a seems a little bit proofer and cleaner.
Let me guess, you are feeding HDMI in YCbCr mode?
Didn't you notice any greenish cast?

I was using HDMI to DVI in RGB mode (because my Optoma H78 does not support YCbCr (real) HDMI). I believe this explains difference what we are seeing. Panny must have some bug in RGB mode in new fw.

I come back on the bug Big Lebowski and Ken Tech noticed, concerning green push and supposed REC 601/ REC 709 color space problem in 720P. I've always used 720P form my dvd player with 528, 536, 540, 541, 542 and 543 versions and I've never noticed any color conversion problem using ycbcr 4:4:4. My Z4 is ISF calibrated with the player on 540 version and nothing has changed since the upgrade to 543.
Perhaps the Z4 does good job operating this conversion. I've also tried RGB from my player and cannot see any diffrence in color rendition. I'll probably check this as soon as i'll receive my calibrating equipment.

II've also tried RGB from my player and cannot see any diffrence in color rendition. I'll probably check this as soon as i'll receive my calibrating equipment.
It would be interesting to see what differencies calibrating equipment shows in different fw versions (especially in RGB mode). Please let us know your findings.

About sharpness issue, i tested 366a fw sharpness with DVE resolution patterns and i couldn't see any difference compared to 362. But there was difference in actual movie content making 366a look less detailed. Also macroblocking and compression artefacts jumped out clearer with the 366a.

One more thing that comes to my mind is what differencies there might be between the new and the old hardware versions of the S97 player (older one uses 5xx fw's and newer ones 3xx fw's).

No, it is other way around. Firmware you are about to install from CD _have to_ allow downgrading. Original Panny firmwares only allow upgrading, not downgrading.We're saying the same thing! In my statement, I was assuming you have already upgraded and are wondering if you can now downgrade. In your statement, you haven't upgraded yet and you advocate using an upgrade that permits downgrading. I couldn't agree more! Different vantage point.

We're saying the same thing! In my statement, I was assuming you have already upgraded and are wondering if you can now downgrade. In your statement, you haven't upgraded yet and you advocate using an upgrade that permits downgrading. I couldn't agree more! Different vantage point.
Sorry KenTech, i must have misunderstood the first part of your message where you said "If the downgrade is prohibited at all, it is prohibited by the currently installed firmware.".

Anyway, seems that we are talking about the same thing after all. :o

So whats the verdict? Upgrade from 362 to 366 or not?

I;m from Australia, so not sure if that makes a difference...also Im not using HDMI output...jusy component. Is there any difference between 362 and 366 on the component output picture, or is it only related to HDMI?

In the hometheatre DVD benchmark review site they mention a big difference between the old firmware and the later firmware which they had used in their benchmark... Does anyone know which versions they were reffering to?

I have reverted from 366a to 362 and even at 480p, I don't see occasional green tints in blacks that I saw with 366a. Most didn't have this problem. So you can try out both firware versions since Tom's hacks allow "downgrades" (that's what I did on mine).

The Benchmark you mention probably refers to 362 because I have seen that comment since around the time of 362 release. Not 100% sure though. Actually, 364 was also an excellent upgrade; and 366 has worked for most without any problem. I suspect display, connection type (HDMI or component) and calibration also play some role.

Isn't there an official list of things that are improved/corrected between F/W versions from Panasonic?

Isn't there an official list of things that are improved/corrected between F/W versions from Panasonic?

Not that I know of.

When I go to the "Picture Menu" I only have an option for picture mode=Auto or Video. I have seen it mentioned a few places that there is an Auto1, Auto2 and Video option....

Is the extra Auto options a firmware thingy? As I only have one Auto option... :confused:

When I go to the "Picture Menu" I only have an option for picture mode=Auto or Video. I have seen it mentioned a few places that there is an Auto1, Auto2 and Video option...."Auto or Video" option is for the European version of the player, while "Auto1, Auto2 or Video" is for the American.

Whatever happened to Paul Bigelow? I notice he hasn't posted in this thread lately and seems he stopped all together here in June.

Just Wondering Hopefully he is alive and well.

"Auto or Video" option is for the European version of the player, while "Auto1, Auto2 or Video" is for the American.

Do you mean the difference between NTSC and PAL dvd's?

Do you mean the difference between NTSC and PAL dvd's?no, I mean that the European player allows the choice "Auto or Video", while the American player allows the choice "Auto1, Auto2 or Video" (I am European).
I see only PAL dvd's and I use Auto mode.

No,it`s not like that.It depends on the video you`re playing.
If you play an ntsc disc it shows "Auto1, Auto2 or Video" if you play a pal disc it shows "Auto or Video" regardles of the player`s region.

sorry guys,

i just started reading htis thread and looks like i was one of the first people to buy this player back in jan 2004.

i have a futureshop warranty for a full three years.. so what should i do with this? should i get futureshop to exchange it for a brand new unit or should i perform the upgrade myself?

which version do i need? as in what is the latest version?

thanks.

I sincerely doubt that Futureshop has this model anywhere in their system. It was tough to find in any store in canada this january.

so in that case, maybe they can give me a replacement.. of an equal value...

There is nothing of equal quality...perhaps they'll give you a Toshiba HD (hehe).

Why replace it? Just do the upgrade. It is simple and quick enough.

Go back to the beginnng of this thread, read the information and do the download and upgrade. You will be happy!

Whatever happened to Paul Bigelow? I notice he hasn't posted in this thread lately and seems he stopped all together here in June.

Just Wondering Hopefully he is alive and well.

Thanks for the inquiry, still alive, health has been poor the last few months. Working to get back to health!

Paul

Thanks for the inquiry, still alive, health has been poor the last few months. Working to get back to health!

Paul

Hope you feel better Paul and your return to recovery is quick!

-t

OK, the conclusion i'v come up with is that i have left my player with fw version 366, i had 362 running all this time since i read the negative comments posted for 366 and never gave it a chance.
Have been watching dvd's for the past week with 366 to notice any significant difference and i dont see most of the negative discoveries made by some on my setup (hdmi 1080i, 42" hd hitachi plasma ).
i havent spotted the greent tint issue, maybe a bit less in sharpening but picture does look cleaner - seems to me they have not used as much edge enhancement like they have with fw version 362, thus a more natural picture, everything looks much more balanced scenes that used to look bad now look more well blended in and cleaner.
Macroblocking aint near as bad as 362 - some titles still show up with it though, but still not nowhere as near as bad as 362.

Could any generous soul send me through email S97 old firmwares?

I need versions 362 and 364, as 366 doesn´t look as good as I thought on my setup.

Tom´s modified firmwares would be very welcomed as rapidshare has deleted almost all of them (except 366a).

Please send them to abrahaoaidar at gmail.

Thanks in advance.

Could someone send me the modified 541 firmware that allows downgrading? Thank you. It would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

I uploaded all of the firmware updates that I saved. Here are the links.

362/541 Downgrading Allowed
http://rapidshare.com/files/260474/Original_Firmware_S97_362_541_Downgrading_Allowed.ZIP.html

364/542 Downgrading Allowed
http://rapidshare.com/files/260475/Original_Firmware_S97_364_542_Downgrading_Allowed.ZIP.html

366a/543a Modified
http://rapidshare.com/files/260476/Modified_Firmware_S97_366a_543a.zip.html

I uploaded all of the firmware updates that I saved. Here are the links.

362/541 Downgrading Allowed
http://rapidshare.com/files/260474/Original_Firmware_S97_362_541_Downgrading_Allowed.ZIP.html

364/542 Downgrading Allowed
http://rapidshare.com/files/260475/Original_Firmware_S97_364_542_Downgrading_Allowed.ZIP.html

366a/543a Modified
http://rapidshare.com/files/260476/Modified_Firmware_S97_366a_543a.zip.html


Thanks. Although I did the upgrades, I did not keep an archive copy of 364. I have them now. :)

Well, another thing i noticed is that i had the pink tint issue worse than i thought because i reverted back to 362 over the wkend and more artifacts and pink came back. What fw version was is that looked just as sharp as 362 but without pink tint? and if any existed? because that is my main problem.
i tested and older movie (old jackie chan film called the young master which was R2) and one scene i thought might of had the green push problem but that scene was horrible and full of artifacts when i switched back to 362 ,it was even worse - not only was it showing shades/tints of blue and green with colored "specks", but it was illuminating the scene and then dropping in contrast .366 seems to have made the scene much more stable and cleaner with less than half the artifacts originally that where there, plus color rendition looks cleaner imo.
Can someone please post what differences they see between 366 and other firmware versions - its pretty hard to spot the differences os some titles but i think 362 might have been sharper (not neccesarily better), i also tested gladiator and the flames from candles etc look like they have over sharpening (small flames from most dvd's seem to bleed on 362, even small lights)but toned down more on 366.
Some dvd's look worse with 366,much more pixelated(macroblocking) than 362, there was a lot of background noise in the PAL version of tomcats and 366 made it even worse to look at - i switched to 362 and it looked cleaner but it introduced much more pink cast over the same background. AARGH this is torture for me :(

Can someone please post what differences they see between 366 and other firmware versions - its pretty hard to spot the differences os some titles but i think 362 might have been sharper (not neccesarily better), i also tested gladiator and the flames from candles etc look like they have over sharpening (small flames from most dvd's seem to bleed on 362, even small lights)but toned down more on 366.
Some dvd's look worse with 366,much more pixelated(macroblocking) than 362, there was a lot of background noise in the PAL version of tomcats and 366 made it even worse to look at - i switched to 362 and it looked cleaner but it introduced much more pink cast over the same background. AARGH this is torture for me :(
See my comments in the last few pages in this thread for differencies I saw between 362 and 366 versions. i'm still using 362 and i'm happy with it.

But there are so many variables, like are you watching PAL or NTSC material, outputting RGB or YCBCr, 480/576p or 720p or 1080i, and there might be even slight differencies between hardware versions (5xx and 3xx firmwares), so YMMV causing that what looks good on my system may not work so well in your system.
Best way to spot differencies between the firmware versions is if you have a projector, large screen isn't so forgiving as smaller TV's often are.

If you compare different firmware versions be sure to use same DVD material. DVD's often are badly mastered and oversharpened (EE), so not all problems are caused by firmware.

well i tell u one thing for sure the pink tint issue was killing me - not so much anything else. I am running a large amount of PAL dvd's but also have quite a few NTSC discs but i set my player output to PAL for everything because it gives better color rendition and looks to be more vivid. I have a 42" HD Hitachi plasma via hdmi upscaled to 1080i and color space set to ycbcr 4:2:2. The pink tint is minimized with 366.
I have a feeling that EE might be lower with 366 FW version because objects that are further away dont appear to look as well defined (more so blended with the background giving less depth) with the same titles but definately softer.
Bottom line i got to look at pro's and cons for both FW versions i guess: choosing between sharp defined picture that shows up every artifact the dvd can manipulate and stupid pink tint issue(362) VS cleaner/more natural picture less definition and artifacts plus minimized pink tint(366) - sheesh i might have just answered my own question lol.

well i tell u one thing for sure the pink tint issue was killing me - not so much anything else.

I don't see any pink tint problem with 362, but picture was definitely looking greenish with 366 in my system. I'm outputting HDMI>DVI (RGB) 720p.


I have a feeling that EE might be lower with 366 FW version because objects that are further away dont appear to look as well defined (more so blended with the background giving less depth) with the same titles but definately softer.

366 did look less defined in my system, just like you described above. It is matter of personal taste which look better, i prefer sharper. Also 362 looks much like what it look like feed from my PC, so I assume it is closer to what it is supposed to look like.

Bottom line i got to look at pro's and cons for both FW versions i guess: choosing between sharp defined picture that shows up every artifact the dvd can manipulate and stupid pink tint issue(362) VS cleaner/more natural picture less definition and artifacts plus minimized pink tint(366) - sheesh i might have just answered my own question lol.
Exactly, you choose version that looks best to your eyes.

What i have read about S97 it looks that it is outputting pretty uniform gray scale.

Does anyone grab a copy of Tom´s new firmware?

Check dcevolution for details on S97 feature-rich firmware.

Modified firmware 363/544 for the S97 available.

Modified firmware 363/544 for the S97 available.

Hi.
Can you tell me how I can get hold of this firmware please?
I know I'll have to pay, but how?
Thanks!!

Hi.
Can you tell me how I can get hold of this firmware please?
I know I'll have to pay, but how?
Thanks!!
See the post 1988 above -- the downloads are free--thanks to Daniel.

New firmware info here (http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38)

Edit: This firmware (363/544) is different than the 366a/543a firmware that Daniel posted above. The author wants money for the new firmware...

Yeah i visited that site a week or so ago, i started laughing as soon as i read tom's post that he wants a donation didnt take it seriously though. Seems to me he wants some paybak LoL!

New firmware info here (http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38)

Edit: This firmware (363/544) is different than the 366a/543a firmware that Daniel posted above. The author wants money for the new firmware...

I've lost track, especially of Tom's stuff. Is there a post of website that explains the diff?

Anyone have a link to the latest Panny S52 firmware (version 411)?

Hi. I suppose this has been discussed previously - somewhere. This thread is just too vast to browse through and I didn't find the info searching the thread either.

Has there been a hacked firmware or something that would allow upconverted video using component video?

New firmware info here (http://www.dcevolution.net/panasonic/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38)

Edit: This firmware (363/544) is different than the 366a/543a firmware that Daniel posted above. The author wants money for the new firmware...

It is there yes, but no links or information on HOW to download, or pay for it. :confused:

Anyone?
Please?

No, sorry. Searched the web and found nothing. I think Tom is reserving this one for private use.

Edit: This firmware (363/544) is different than the 366a/543a firmware that Daniel posted above. The author wants money for the new firmware...

Why does this not surprise me based on past posts from this person. I wonder what panasonic would think about someone decompiling their firmware then charging money for hacked on "upgrades".

Then he goes on to say:

1. The new firmware versions will be available only to contributors. I forgot to add that to the initial offer but it has been corrected now.

2. I'm not "selling" a firmware. The whole thing is about contribution to the firmware modding project.

Yeah, uhh, ok buddy. Someone gives the "group" money, you give them the hacked firmware. Good luck with this.

Hello! Will these firmware updates to the S97 work on my S77? Kinda sucks that my S77 is being left out of the firmware gigs. Would be nice to have that peace of mind that my unit has the most recent support/firmware. This S77 is about 1 1/2 yrs old. Has never ever tasted any firmware updates.

Why does this not surprise me based on past posts from this person....


Looks like things have changed since this post. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8245473&&#post8245473)

This S77 is about 1 1/2 yrs old. Has never ever tasted any firmware updates.

Actually, I think that there have been some updates to the S77's firmware (I recall reading this somewhere) but they were made at the factory level. I don't recall even seeing any firmware hacks for the S77.

LOL please don't tell me u guys are taking Tom's post of new firmware mod seriously? I dont even think there is a "what if is" gesture there - hes full of crap any blind man can see right through his games...attention seekers. he didnt get the reaction he quite wanted from here and he knows most of us AVS forum members with s-97's visit the site to see if he has any new mods - its all a crappy childish game. Its actually quite funny to see how low people will go to get the attention they want but dont deserve. Well doesnt it seem that the new fw mod seems like a s-97 owners wet dream if it exists? thats the whole point!

I posed the following questions to Tom,

1. Tom you said it wasn't about the money but you are asking for $500 (per group) for the firmware. If it's not about the money - release it already... if it is just say it and stop ********ting...

2. The firmware has had one trial run on Tom's S97 and Tom "assumes" it will work for all players.
* What happens if it doesn't [Tom still hasn't given a straight answer].

** if firmware is free people accept responsibilty for it possiblly f***ing up and having a dead player, but when you pay for firmware it needs to work. **

For Martin's clarity of why this is important: What will Tom do for you MARTIN if his firmware fu@@s up your player and 20 other people's after you "donated" $20 each to him???

3. Can George be "trusted"? Tom won't deal with "individuals" only "groups" but the groups are un-named and not formally formed.

My question is how will Tom get money from George and what guarantees do us "consumers" have that the firmware does what Tom says it does??? What if macrovision is still enabled?? How do i get my money back if that was the feature I was "paying" for???

Another comment for you: i quote
"If Tom was doing it for the money, he already would have setup a PayPal account and let people pay for one by one (easier and quicker). Also why would he still release S49/S295 firmware if he was doing it for the money?"

1. Isn't it obvious Martin why he is doing it this way???? Tom knows that if one person buys the firmware from him (for say $20) via PayPal then once they get it (and it works) they will post it on the web. All Tom makes is $20 (maybe a few more people will pay ...???)

He also knows can't copyright it as it seems it's in breech of Panasonic copyright anyway.

2. Why do the S49/S295 release?
Mayve it was to show people it can be done...
Maybe because all the people with those models were super-nice to him...
Not to mention most of the upfront work was done by Virus and he took the next step...

Only Tom can answer that.....

I forgot to add:

Rokz0r your right - it's like a s97's wetdream - only there's no girl, your alone and you have some tissues...

If its real it needs to be tested and i thought the point of all this was for info sharing and not profiteering.... :(

HAHAHA i think Tom has gone overboard by trying to get a "group" of suckers to contribute the 500 euros or $'s or whatever - wonder if panasonic might be interested in hearing this? hmm.
I would rather have the original panasonic factory firmware than bow down and give in to an idiot like that! after all i purchased the player knowing its features/compatability etc and purely bought it for its quality factors and not so much its features and im sure that most of the buyers where "aware" of what they where getting into by purchasing this player.
I got a feeling he's sucking his thumb while checking in this thread from day to day to see if anyone "bow's" to his highness. Instead of money someone should donate some used dummies that would be more appropriate for him.

Hey RokzOz,

Your're right - what a baby with a big dummy spit!!!. All the stuff I posted yesterday has magially "vanished" off the forum sight. The fact that i accused him of doing it for money not the "modding project" amongst other things has disaapeared.

He is a big baby, and he has "taken" panasonic knowledge and used it to try and make money out of "keen" people.

He offers no guarantees that it will work - his attitude seems to be:- "Buy it - trust me it will work".
Q: "If it doesn't?" "What if I end up with a dead player?"
Tom: "You're problem"

If anyone out there is crazy enough to give him money be my guest. But I guarantee there will be a new forum soon called "Tom (and Martin) ripped me off" :o

For all you keen firmware hackers there is a pioneer hack site that is run like one should be http://www.pioneerfaq.info/index.php Not only does it give you a heap of cool firmware upgrades it provides info on how to restore a "dead player" incluing serial cable wiring, programs to use, etc. Real pro site - not like Tom. :rolleyes: Oh and they're all free!!! :cool:

You guys, eat your heart out.
In the meantime I am enjoing Tom's firmware version 85E543a.

I have a unique S97 which was built in September 2005 and a older firmware 85E536 were installed by Panasonic on my request (after the HDMI connector of my original unit failed).

Now I understand why Tom says "PAL playback restriction for non-PAL players removed" in his newer firmware. Seems like the only difference between older and newer players is the PAL playback restriction on the newer ones.

Kosha,

The restrictions apply only to certain players in certain countries. Australian players allow PAL (obviously as Australia is PAL as a standard) and NTSC playback. Other countries vary - the restriction may be of use to you but not all people.

I am enjoying the newer firmware too. Please understand, I am not "shitting" on his work - what he has done is great. I have said that before in this forum. I am dishing Tom's attitude where this has become about money but he claims it's about the modding project work.

Tom offers no fallback plans if it fails and always avoids any serious questions about what happens if we end up with a dead player. Did u go to the pioneer firmware site from my last post?? Can you restore a dead Panny player - do u know how??? Will Tom help you - no!!! It's about the money dude!!!!

So does anyone have a copy of firmware later than 543a? If yes, how does it work?

So does anyone have a copy of firmware later than 543a? If yes, how does it work?

366a also known as 543a for a different chipset in the same machine, is the latest offering from Panasonic. You probally already know the "a" is Tom's modified firmware version naming where he disabled UOP and made it region free.... :)

Yes. Thanks for the info mavmarek. Besides the new 'paid' versions of the firmware updates from Tom, there are no new updates then?

Hey mallu2u,

Besides the new 'paid' versions of the firmware updates from Tom, there are no new updates then?

That's right - 543/366 was Panasonic's latest and greatest fw. I think it is pretty good and have had no issues with it. My opinion is that most movies are recorded (mastered) onto DVD with no consistancy between movie makers. So one movie looks breathtaking and the next awful (even the same studio such as Paramount).

I think most of the time the first thing we all do is blame the DVD players and/or the firmware version. The problem is we end up finding small faults in a movie sequence and then spend 20 mins on a forum asking what's wrong with the player/firmware. I ask: "is it the player/firmware version or just how the movie was rendered?"

Having said that I found overall 366/543 was much better quality than 364/542 and was the same as the original 362/541 (which was also good). I think the real difference is that HDMI quality was improved dramatically with 543 and for me is more consistant with a variety of different movie maker's DVDs. I still think 576p component render DVDs the best on my LG plasma as occasionally HDMI makes people's skintone "Unrealistic".

But as others have said before: HDMI vs component; projector vs LCD vs plasma, etc all these things make the new firmware either work for you or not.... and not to mention all different brands of the above.

None of the firmware (except Tom's "a" ones) add any extra funcionality - but most people hated 364/542 - i was one of those.

I say sit back and enjoy this brilliant quality player...