Opus.......

The lack of digital inputs was exactly why I was going for the 702 instead of the 402. I guess that JVC is thinking that you also have two HDMI inputs which are also carrying digital audio... so that gives the 402 4 total digital audio inputs... at least I think that is where there heads are....

Unfortunately the Xbox, cable box, satellite box etc... are not yet using HDMI... maybe Xbox2!

Why not buy a decent reciever and an HDMI switcher instead? What kind of speakers are you powering? Sorry for the OT.

I've been looking around online for the mt700 for a price range between $2,400 to $2,500 but they all seem to be out of stock. Anyone know when this projector will be more widely available?

Why not buy a decent reciever and an HDMI switcher instead? What kind of speakers are you powering? Sorry for the OT.

That is what I am currently doing.... in Vegas. I have a Denon 3805 with a Gefen 4 port DVI switch (you know the one everyone complains about... but is still big bucks!)

In Cedar Hills I am going to be powering a 7.1 Energy Connoisseur setup. It is just so much cleaner if I can have one unit doing all the work....... an iScan HD+ would do the trick, but I am too cheap at this point!

I have an iScan HD+. It is awesome, but doen't do hdmi switching. There is only one DVI input port.
Warren.

I have an iScan HD+. It is awesome, but doen't do hdmi switching. There is only one DVI input port.
Warren.

Yes, Warren I know the current HD+ does not do HDMI... that is the next one! :D

They had the engineering version at January's CES... it had several HDMI inputs (cannot remember how many) as well as component, s-video, composite... and it would transcode all of the signals and output them over HDMI... The One Cable Solution!!

However, if I can get a JVC receiver to do the single cable job for me then that was the way I was going to go... I am sure the internals for the iScan are much better... but I thought I would give the JVC a shot and see how it works out.

aerospace0007,
Try a Froogle search or ask MikeSRC

Buy it from Mike.

Buy it from Mike.

dude you are too much :D

i have family down in frederick, maryland......

when i come thru this year, we have to get together & game ;)

(every pic u have cracks me up).

I used to drive an hour and fifteen minutes to make 15 bucks an hour in Frederick. Damn.

Damn , there is soo much offtopic blabla in this thread it is no wonder it is not named an ***OFFICIAL*** thread :D

Anycase on topic:
I received my 92" DLP2005 Screenline projectionscreen (1.0 gain) and now I have a problem: the MT700 has just too much light for this size screen. If i turn on the subtitling I see RBE and when there is no picture the screen is dark grey instead of very dark grey/black. I think this is a luxury problem but I want to deal with it. Monday I visited another HT owner with a calibrated Benq8700 and the picture was so quiet that I could not notice any RBE at all, even with subtitling. The picture had also more depth in it and I was amazed at the quality. He had his projector ISF calibrated together with a red filter installment and so he lost lumens but gained a very pretty picture. So I called the guy who had calibrated his PJ and together were gonna tweak the MT700 by using a ND filter or also some color filter. I don't care about the lumens since I now have a total light controlled room, but I do care about the black levels and overall stable picture.
To be continued.

Damn , there is soo much offtopic blabla in this thread it is no wonder it is not named an ***OFFICIAL*** thread :D

Nyah!

I was beaten as a child and I just want attention. :P

I received my 92" DLP2005 Screenline projectionscreen (1.0 gain) and now I have a problem: the MT700 has just too much light for this size screen.
Sounds like you need a bigger screen...

(You can count on me to find the most expensive solution for any problem... :p)

Sounds like you need a bigger screen...
(You can count on me to find the most expensive solution for any problem... :p)

:D more expensive then you might think cause then I also need a bigger livingroom :eek:

Nyah!

I was beaten as a child and I just want attention. :P
Weird. I was beaten as a child and I now I want LESS attention. :D

I was just beaten. ;)

Here's the Toshiba USA spec sheet for the TDP-MT700


Dick

Hi, I'm new as a poster here.
Have been a lurker here for quite a while tho.
Bought my second projector, MT700, based on this thread, and set up one specific way I am quite happy with the PQ.
So thank you all for all your posts.

I have one issue about the projector.
It seems to me that the projector image is very soft and seems a little out of focus.
I have managed to get a very good picture using an HD+ and sending the signal out as 720p through DVI with the MT700 set with 3 on the sharpness setting.
I was just surprised that without the HD+ the picture was always soft and to me seemed out of focus. It appeared this way using svideo, component and HDMI and using two different DVD players (both mid-range, one PAL 576i and one NTSC progressive). The projector menu when called up always looked sharp and in focus but the PQ for any DVD was very soft and slightly blurred.
My old low range sanyo projector always displayed a sharp image (despite its other shortcomings).
Is my projector faulty, or is this typical of this projector?

Here's the Toshiba USA spec sheet for the TDP-MT700
That spec sheet clearly states Faroudja/DCDi as the deinterlacer.
But what's that about O Plus being the 720p scaler?

Also, is this 6-seg wheel RGBRGB or something other?

Thanks! Am redesigning my HT for constant image height and it's looking like this PJ will be my 4805 upgrade.

There's always been some speculation from the European Toshiba specs that the scaler used was Oplus, so that's probably correct. The 6-segment wheel is definitely RGBRGB.

There's always been some speculation from the European Toshiba specs that the scaler used was Oplus, so that's probably correct. The 6-segment wheel is definitely RGBRGB.
Thanks Mike!

Do you have any comments concerning the Oplus doing scaling rather than the FLI23xx chip?

Does this projector use the same kind of power cord as a computer? How many feet is the one that it comes with? If I order a 15 foot computer power cable, will that work?

Yes it does, and yes it will, nothru.

Many thanks. Anyone know a cheap place to get a 25 feet long cable? I might not have a straight run. I can find up to 15 on monoprice.

I've never seen one that long... you could use an extension cord to get it longer... then use a bunch of electrical tape to keep them together. If you're trying to hide it in a small space like a raceway though, you might have problems unless you put the extension cord completely in the raceway.

Edit: I just remembered that another method you could use is to splice a regular extension cord with a computer cord, and it will end up being only slightly thicker than the original cord, but should hold together nicely. This is what I did with my installation... rather than having a coiled up cord that plugs into my ceiling outlet near the PJ, I cut the middle section out of a computer power cord and spliced it together to make a 1' power cord.

The only ones I've seen that long are expensive (ramelectronics). I usually just make my own or get it to a point where I can hide an extension cord.

Hi, I'm new as a poster here.
Have been a lurker here for quite a while tho.
Bought my second projector, MT700, based on this thread, and set up one specific way I am quite happy with the PQ.
So thank you all for all your posts.

I have one issue about the projector.
It seems to me that the projector image is very soft and seems a little out of focus.
I have managed to get a very good picture using an HD+ and sending the signal out as 720p through DVI with the MT700 set with 3 on the sharpness setting.
I was just surprised that without the HD+ the picture was always soft and to me seemed out of focus. It appeared this way using svideo, component and HDMI and using two different DVD players (both mid-range, one PAL 576i and one NTSC progressive). The projector menu when called up always looked sharp and in focus but the PQ for any DVD was very soft and slightly blurred.
My old low range sanyo projector always displayed a sharp image (despite its other shortcomings).
Is my projector faulty, or is this typical of this projector?

I am not quite sure I understand your question but I am finding I get a sharper image when I feed 480P as apposed to 480i. This is contrary to what some of the reviews have stated.

Also, does anyone know what "filter" is in the picture menu? I set mine to 0. Also, is there a way to get the picture to remain at your user setting when you turn the projector off and on?

Many thanks. Anyone know a cheap place to get a 25 feet long cable? I might not have a straight run. I can find up to 15 on monoprice.
I've used this 25 footer on my 4805 since last June:
http://www.provantage.com/buy-7CBTC04C-25-ft-power-replacement-ac-cable-cables-go-pc-14719-shopping.htm

Has anyone released a projector mount that is specfic to the MT700 (vs. a "universal" mount)? Other than the obvious advantage of being able to reuse a universal on a future projector, is there any other good reason not to pursue a dedicated version?

Has anyone released a projector mount that is specfic to the MT700 (vs. a "universal" mount)? Other than the obvious advantage of being able to reuse a universal on a future projector, is there any other good reason not to pursue a dedicated version?

I used the universal and I recommend it. I had a dedicated Chief mount for may last projector. The universal gave me a side to side leeway of about 1-1/2" which is exactly what I needed so I would not have to move my existing mount. Basically, It gave me a little more flexibility without (IMO) sacrificing any strength.

Does anyone else suffer from an image from the mt700 that is very soft and seems slightly out of focus?

Does anyone else suffer from an image from the mt700 that is very soft and seems slightly out of focus?

What signal are you feeding it?

Pretty PDF from PAL land

TDP-MT700 (http://www.toshiba.co.th/ITbusiness/Brochure/TDP_MT700.pdf) PDF

& another Pretty PDF from....

nevermind :rolleyes:

TDP-MT700(2) (http://www.kindermann.de/content/e135/e138/e144/e2093/projektoren4374/downloadfile4377/mt700-B_eng.pdf)

SJK

Posted a brief description a page back, thought it may have been overlooked.

The signals I've been sending the pj are:
svideo, component and HDMI and using two different DVD players (both mid-range, one PAL 576i and one NTSC progressive). The projector menu when called up always looks sharp and in focus but the PQ for any DVD is very soft and slightly blurred.
I'm projecting onto a 110" screen.
I've found that using an iscan HD+ I can get a pretty good picture but only if I also crank up the sharpness in the pj. I would much prefer it if the pj didnt need the HD+ for an acceptable picture.

There are a couple of posts in this thread way back about similar problems, but it doesnt seem to be a widespread complaint at all.
So I was wondering if my unit might be faulty or others find the picture soft.
I have been using a low end sanyo pj with the PAL dvd player, and while there were many other small issues, the picture was always very sharp.

xrave,

Sorry, I did overlook it. I have a Toshiba SD-9200 ($2000) DVD player and a Zenith 318. I have found the 480i to be the least sharp. I have found the 480P on my Toshiba to be a great picture. Definitely sharper to my eye. I have also tried up-converting to 720P over the 318 but it is hard to A/B them because I have to change the wires around. The 480P seems to be about the same as the 720P in terms of sharpness but I think the colors are more accurate on the Toshiba and it seems to give the picture more depth. I have not tried HDMI but I will when I get a long enough cord.

I just wanted to mention to all of you people on the fence about this projector that the contrast and black levels on this machine are awesome. I watched Van-Helsing last night and I must say WOW. I used to be afraid to watch dark movies – but no more. 2+ hours of dark scene after dark scene and it was easy on the eyes, more than bright enough, no crushed blacks and blacks that were like black INK. Now I get to re-watch all of those movies that I was unable to watch because they were too dark.

I just wanted to mention to all of you people on the fence about this projector that the contrast and black levels on this machine are awesome. I watched Van-Helsing last night and I must say WOW. I used to be afraid to watch dark movies – but no more. 2+ hours of dark scene after dark scene and it was easy on the eyes, more than bright enough, no crushed blacks and blacks that were like black INK. Now I get to re-watch all of those movies that I was unable to watch because they were too dark.


That's what I like to hear :D

Haven't watched Van Helsing because of that issue.

To anyone that connects the mt700 to a HTPC; does the mt700 sync up to all the resolutions that a PC sends out to the PJ?

For example, when I had a HD2+ DLP TV I had connected my PC to the TV and found that when I loaded up a game to play on the PC using the tv that the tv did not sync up with some of the introductory scenes. In other words if the PC sends a 800*600 or lower resolution image, would the mt700 still be able to display an image or do i need to always have a monitor connected to the PC in case the PJ does not sync up with the PC?

This was one of the reasons why I gave back the TV to best buy because of the sync issue.

For those getting this or the BenQ projector, what DVD player are/would you get considering the features of this projector? I need to get a new DVD player. Most point to the Panasonics and Oppos.. Most of these players have the same electronic video features as the projector, but it appears you just disable one or the other...bummer to pay for both however.

Thoughts? I am not going to move to HTPC at this time, maybe in future.

Thx!
Jim

The Panasonic S97 or S77 would be your best choice. If you scale internally in the DVD player with the faroudja chip, you bypass any analogue conversion, which is why it is desirable.

I tried the 1080i last night via my Zenith 318. To my eyes – it is now clearly the best picture in terms of clarity and sharpness. It even seems better than the 720P, which I don’t understand because the projector is native 720P. Anyway, the only problem was that the colors and white/black level that the 318 delivers seem to be way off. With my Toshiba at 480P I need NO brightness, contrast or tint/hue calibration using AVIA. With the 318 I need to set my brightness to -6 or -7, my contrast to +2, and my tint to -2.

This DVD (Zenith 318) seems to give a very clear picture via up-converted component at 1080i but the colors just seem off. More testing tonight.

great, thanks...panasonic it is....just ignore its conversion capabilities..too bad no one makes one without the electronics...just core digital dump to hdmi.

Jim

The Oppo is also a good choice if you want its region free capabilites and don't mind the occasional shimmering of sharp vertical edges. It will also be more likely to be improved in the near future. Macroblocking (which is very display-dependent) has not been a issue with the MT700 in my experience, so I wouldn't worry much about that.

Anyone else feeding this projector hdmi 720p using the panasonic s97? I get a great deal of noise in the blacks and macroblocking all over the place. It is almost unbearable. The only fix I have been able to come up with results in crushing blacks and then the pq suffers. Otherwise the image from this player is outstanding. I fear the mt700 maybe very sensitive to macroblocking enhancement. Other owners of the s97 have noticed a huge improvement after the firmware 540 update. Unfortunately, I am not one of them and was just wondering if anyone else w/ this projector and player has this issue?

Jon

Are you sure its macroblocking that you're seeing? I haven't had any problem with it, but it's also calibration dependent as well. Since you're getting dithering in the blacks, it sounds like you need to adjust your brightness and contrast settings. You shouldn't have to crush blacks to do that either. What are you using to set brightness and contrast?

I am using Avia to calibrate leaving the 2nd black bar just visible for brightness so I don't think that is the problem. In fact, I have an old Toshiba 480p player w/ component and the blacks are smooth(after Avia calibration) and zero macroblocking . I just watched LOTR with the s97 and there was MB everywhere. It's a shame because I love the filters on the s97.

Jon

I just completely calibrated my MT-700 yesterday with AVIA. I believe the settings depend on the DVD player you are using. My Toshiba SD-9200 needed no changes – it was nearly perfect out of the box. Using my Zenith 318 I had to set Brightness to -6 or -7 and contrast to 2-3. Tint had a slight change as well. I also played around with the advanced color settings in the Theater 1 mode. I used the red, green and blue filters and the corresponding blinking color bars and set the red, green and, blue independently. I think blue pushed 1 to 16 and green came back a couple of notches to 13. I believe I have it set up about as perfectly as it is capable of with the equipment I have.

is this macroblocking due to the dvd player? if you sent 480p to the projector and had it convert to 720p, would that go away?

When do u use the dvd player vs. the projector?

I am considering a purchase of this pj, and I will be using it in a basement. I also have some workout equimpment in the basement. If I have some lights on while doing cardio or lifting weights, will I still get an acceptable picture? I know it won't be as good as with the lights off, but I would like to use it for this purpose as well as watching movies in the dark.

Thanks for all the great info on this forum.

Macroblocking can still be present, though not as bad, at 480p on most players that exhibit it. By the way, my MT700 just arrived at my parents house, so I'll be able to go get it after work! Woot!!

kroberts1972

I think it's fine. It's a whole lot better than my old X1. It may depend on the type of light you have though. Ambient light is ok. Most of my lights are pot lights and doesn't affect it too much.

I'm debating which cable to connect the projector to the PC with; either the VGA-BNC cable or DVI-HDMI cable.

Do they both give almost equal picture quality?
Does the projector work better with one cable instead of the other when connected to a PC?

Thanks for the input basement. I have recessed lights in the ceiling with separate switches over the HT and workout areas, so I plan to put a dimmer on the lights and only have the lights on over the workout area while I am exercising, so from what you said it sounds like I will be good to go.
Now I just have to wait to get the pj. It is on backorder until June 23rd. Of course I have a lot of work to do before I have everything ready to go anyway. :)

Yes the macroblocking is due to the Genesis 2310 chip in the dvd player. However, certain displays can amplify this effect creating a digital mess all over the place. I don't know if the MT-700 is any better or worse in this regard and it appears that others aren't having much issue with this which is why I am puzzled. I have tried everything in calibrating including lowering contrast and brightness, reducing color saturation, and messing with the gamma adjustments.

I notice macroblocking w/ 480p, 720p, and 1080i through hdmi. Using component is a different story. No macroblocking but then the dvd player won't scale to 720p(hdmi only). The main reasons I bought this player were for its upconversion ability, hdmi support, and the fact that it is supposed to have less MB then other players using this faroudja chip.

So anyone else using the S97 with the MT-700 having the same issue?

Regarding the dithering with blacks, are you doing your adjustments on the player or the projector? If you're using the projector, make sure that the DVDplayer settings are at "0" (or whatever the default is). On the projector, what are your RGB gamma settings at?

Also, when using Avia, adjust brightness (and contrast, going back and forth between them) to eliminate dithering in the background of the black bars pattern.

What is dithering?

I am looking into picking up this projector for my new theater room...and my father has the infocus 4800 and i was wondering how the contrast on the toshiba would compare the 4800. So if anyone could help it would be great...thanks

MikeSRC

The settings on my dvd player are at 0 (default). I make my adjustments with the projector.

Current settings:

R Gamma 71
B Gamma 71
G Gamma 71

R Gain 47
G Gain 30
B Gain 36

R Offset -1
G Offset -1
B Offset -1

Jon

Jim - For a dvd player I got a Samsung HD850 last week. My old Panny R56 died and I couldn't find a Panny S97. Great pricture via HDMI. Lots of adjustments. I haven't had the time to test them all, some weekend when I have the time I'll check em out. There doesn't appear to be any macro blocking problem with this projector. At very least it will do well until the real HD players come out.

Could someone explain what the R/G/B gamma, R/G/B gain, and the R/G/B offset does?

Thanks for the help.

I hooked it up last night and threw it up on my off white wall (I am moving July 22 and building a dedicated theater room, with screen and dark blue walls) and here's my results: First, I had convinced myself that the rainbows would be so bad and the projector so loud that I would freak and return it ASAP. My Tivo is louder than this thing and I only saw rainbows a few times on white text on black background (I think Sin City will be a problem but otherwise, they didn't bother me at all.) I just set up my HTPC over DVI for 720p on my Hitachi CRT RPTV and I could not get a picture at all from a DVI -> HDMI cable so I'm worried about that. I also could not get 720p PAL to work on it, but I had no problem with 576p PAL from my Panasonic S97. At 720p it would just say no input. 720p NTSC DVDs work well. I do see macroblocking so I will make it so I can easily switch to 480p component on movies that exhibit it, and they look fantastic. MikeSRC, you won't have a return coming from here. Thanks so much.

I read the projector central review again of the Benq pe7700 and was wondering if anyone noticed this on the MT-700 :

"The PE7700 produces average brightness uniformity – on our test unit the upper left corner of the image was 33% dimmer than the center. However the rest of the screen was illuminated more evenly, and during normal viewing of films and video the reduced lumen value in one corner is barely noticeable."

Maybe this could be the first post of mine where someone could actually reply to,
or maybe even go back a page or two and answer some of my other questions.

Thank you in advance, i've been reading a lot about the mt-700 and can't wait to order it in a month or two.

Does anyone know where there are other reviews of the mt-700 or pe7700 besides projector central?

I purchased an MT700 a couple weeks ago, and was waiting for my mount to arrive before posting impressions. I have a Da-Lite 92 x 52 Video Spectra screen with a 1.5 gain. Seating distance is 14' from screen in a light-controlled room with black drapes behind andon the sides of the screen, as well as covering 18" of the ceiling in front of the screen.

I just sold my CRT. It was an NEC XG1100 -- an 8" EM focus unit. Very good tubes & professional greyscal calibration. Sources were/are HDTV via Dish 921, & DVD through HTPC with TheaterTek and a Radeon 9600 w/ ffdshow & lancosz resize to 1280 x 720. I use a DVI connection for both sources, and calibrated with AVIA. I use a HOYA ND2 filter, and MikeSRC's recommendations for gamma and color temp.

1st let me say that I had zero complaints with my CRT. The picture was great, and the projector was very stable. I had previously owned 3 lcd projectors and two DLPs before switching to CRT (I've had two). I did so because for me the price/performance ratio a couple years ago favored CRT. With the introduction of the MT700 & Benq 7700 it switched back (for me).

For those wondering about blacks, the MT700 cannot do what my professionally calibrated CRT could do. The CRT had inky blacks and great shadow detail. Having said that, the MT700 does a more than respectable job with black level & shadow detail -- better than I had hoped for given my previous projector. I have no regrets from that standpoint.

The XG1100 is a bright CRT, even when conservatively set up for home theater. Even with the lamp in low (or normal) and with the ND2 filter, the MT700 is significantly brighter. If I didn't already own a screen I would probably consider a grey screen to reduce black level even further.

Although the CRT was dialed in very well, the MT700 is clearly sharper -- especially via the DVI connection. I did try the RGBHV connections from both HDTV and the HTPC, but DVI was clearer. Not a great deal, but certainly worthwhile. Gladly, the projector locked on to the DVI signal of each without any issues. Someone asked earlier if the MT700 can accept other signals. When I had the RGBHV connection from the HTPC I used the control panel to move the image a bit, while still maintaining the 1280 x 720 resolution. After a couple clicks the projector lost sync.

For those concerned about dither, I set brightness with AVIA, and from any reasonable distance it's a non-issue. Same with screen door. One thing that worried me was the smoothness of DVD playback. The HTPC was previously outputting a 72hz refresh rate. That and the nature of the CRT made for a very smooth and filmlike image. I'm surprised that switching to a 60 hz refresh didn't have a negative impact. In short, DVD is still very smooth.

Rainbows used to bother me on my NEC LT150. I see them occassionally on my Infocus X1, but they don't give me headaches. I don't see them at all on the MT700. Regarding the brigthness uniformity issue mentioned on Projector Central regading their review of the Benq 7700, I don't find any such problem.

In the end the switch from CRT was worth it for me. I'm very impressed with the image quality, gained the benefit of a warranty, HDCP compliance, and a nearly silent projector (the XG1100 is loud).

I read the projector central review again of the Benq pe7700 and was wondering if anyone noticed this on the MT-700 :

"The PE7700 produces average brightness uniformity – on our test unit the upper left corner of the image was 33% dimmer than the center. However the rest of the screen was illuminated more evenly, and during normal viewing of films and video the reduced lumen value in one corner is barely noticeable."

Maybe this could be the first post of mine where someone could actually reply to,
or maybe even go back a page or two and answer some of my other questions.

Thank you in advance, i've been reading a lot about the mt-700 and can't wait to order it in a month or two.

Does anyone know where there are other reviews of the mt-700 or pe7700 besides projector central?

Sometimes I feel like I am talking to a wall as well. I do notice a slightly dimmer upper left hand corner of the picture but it is something I would NEVER have noticed had someone not brought it up. That is one of the negatives of this forum. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Very detailed review, Steve. Thanks for the info. What are the specs of your CPU & RAM? I'm going to be building an HTPC for this very application as well, and am curious what specs you're using for smooth DVD playback w/TT & ffdshow...

Tim, the CPU is a Pentium 4, 2.8Ghz. RAM is 512 of PC2700 DDR (333mhz). OS is XP Home Edition with Service Pak 2. It's a dedicated HTPC -- no other duties.

I use VMR9 in TheaterTek with Lancosz 4. I resize to 1440 x 960, with minimal chroma sharpening, and let the video card scale down to 1280 x 720.

jonjandrews,
The PJ settings you posted yesterday, are they for use of the Toshiba or the Panny? I have a Toshiba SD-3755.

MikeSRC

The settings on my dvd player are at 0 (default). I make my adjustments with the projector.

Current settings:

R Gamma 71
B Gamma 71
G Gamma 71

R Gain 47
G Gain 30
B Gain 36

R Offset -1
G Offset -1
B Offset -1

Jon

Nothing there that would be a problem. Those are the correct settings for gamma for any MT700. What are your contrast and brightness settings and do you have total or near total light control?

Regarding the uniformity, I haven't noticed an issue with it, but I'll measure it with OpticOne when I get a chance.

As far as other reviews are concerned, see the thread in my signature line and the MT700/7700 comparison thread.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that the mount I purchase is the one referred to in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516642

It's still available on Ebay. Very well built, and it comes with screws that fit exactly (6mm?) in the base of the projector. No need for a trip to the hardware store.

aerospace0007 -- You can also read the review of the PE7700 on Art's (presenter) review site and his summary of the MT700 and PE7700 comparison that he and MilkeSRC did.

Art's Reviews: http://www.projectorreviews.com/

MikeSRC analysis & reviews: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=532141
and http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=541843,

Any idea why my HTPC works on my Hitachi CRT and not on the MT700? I have it back on the CRT now, what settings should I change?

What is the shortest distance that mount can be from the ceiling?

nothru22 -- See page 19 of the manual for the VGA to RGBHV connections. If you're using the HDMI input, you have to remember that it will only work with a DVI-D (digital) signal. If your HTPC video card doesn't output a digital signal, you won't get anything on the PJ (the VGA output is analog). Check your video card settings.

RE: Mount to ceiling distance -- that depends on the mount. Most of them take up several inches, at least, plus the distance between the bottom of the PJ and the center of the lens (the zero offset is relative to the center of the lens, I believe).

nothru22, did you activate the DVI output on your video card? If you're using both a VGA & DVI output at the same time you'll probably have to do so. If you're using Overlay it may show up on only the DVI or only the VGA output. Otherwise try removing the VGA cable and using only the DVI.

There's a few posts in the mount thread I pointed to regarding distance to ceiling. I believe if you remove the extension pole the shortest is about 2". With the pole it's about 9". Having said that, my projector is hanging such that the center of the lens is 2" below the top of the screen, and there's no keystoning at all. However, the image is a bit wider on the sides and spills onto the masking boarder of the screen (easily removed with TheaterTek's aspect ratio controls).

My video card is dual DVI. I am using a Geforce 6600. I use the same DVI out to go to my Hitachi or the MT700. The Nvidia drivers recognize the Hitachi and display it's model number and let me choose 720p.

My ceiling is 94" high and I want to have a 110" screen. I can't figure out if that mount is too low, even at 2". Help?

A 110" screen is 55" high. Asssuming that you want the screen about 2' off the floor, the top of the screen would be at 79". That would put the center of the projector lens 15" down from the ceiling to avoid keystoning.

I don't know much about HTPCs, but there's been a lot of users on this thread. Look for some of Flying Gimp's posts.

Jeffcom

I use those color temp settings for both the panasonic and toshiba.

I have hooked up my Xbox, HD Tivo and Panasonic S97 over component with great success on this player. That being said, on my gamecube over component at 480p I am getting weird vertical banding, like a small patch every few inches is lighter. I am using cheap component cables temporarily (they are monster a/v cables actually) but I don't think that's it.

@nothru22

Have you tried setting your Geforce to 1280x720 (simple monitor resolution) instead of the HDTV 720P output. On my Gainward 6600GT the 720P setting is for the YUV output, not for the DVI.

Has anybody paired this projector with the Yamaha DVD-S2500 player?

Does anybody know how this "combo" performs regarding macroblocking?

Can somebody tell me how much distance there is between the center of the lens and the bottom of the projector (assuming the "feet" are fully retracted)? I think it has been posted, but I've searched and can't find it. Thanks! Jack

MikeSRC

My contrast is set at -1 and brightness at -2 and yes I have total light control. I may buy another upconverting dvd player with hdmi to compare to. I am really curious to see why I have this much noise in the blacks.

Jon

Can somebody tell me how much distance there is between the center of the lens and the bottom of the projector (assuming the "feet" are fully retracted)? I think it has been posted, but I've searched and can't find it. Thanks! Jack

2" from the bottom of the projector, 2-1/2" including the "feet".

Thanks Mike. I'm in the final phases of planning and getting down to the details at this point. It looks like the top of my screen's projection surface will be "nominally" 5" below ceiling height, so I'll have to come up with a mounting approach to put the bottom of the PJ 3" from the ceiling. I may go with a premier mounts PBL mount @ 2.5" if they come out with one specific to the MT700 anytime soon. Has anyone seen any info on this? I emailed Premier Mounts but they haven't responded yet.

nothru: the MT700 is very picky on its DVI input, the RGBHV input is much more forgiving. If you still want to use the DVI input stick to the DVI specifications and be sure your refresh frequency is EXACTLY 50 or 60 Hz, 1 Hz up or down is a no go is a lot of cases. If you are sure frequency is correct then it is a matter of a wrong setting in the sync pulses. You can try to run powerstrip and select the default 1280x720p setting , it worked for me on an ATI9700.
Good luck.

For my personal situation, i have tried to build my own PJ mount since I wanted to move my PJ out of the way when not in use. My personal experience thus far is that the 0-offset is a true crime! I have had my PJ on and off the ceiling mount for at least a couple of dozen times now and I still can't get it right. The problem is that even with my lens exactly in the middle of the screen and the height is perfect the angle of the PJ is also very important. Obviously my angle differs from 90 degrees. Also it seems that my screenline tensioned screen is not hanging exactly vertical. So i have a very little slight trapezium which can be adjusted by putting the digital keystone to -1 but which was not my intension in the first place :(
I now give up on this and am looking for a ready made mount which is more easy to adjust then my fixed wooden shelf with holes. My advice for all new projector owners already adjusting and calculating mounts before the projector purchase: don't !!!
Wait for the projector and then start drilling and building cause this is no easy task unless you are very experienced. I also calculated everything but in the end theory is just theory.

Kjelt is right on. Wait for the projector before drilling. Even then, mearsure twice, cut once. Having said that, the mount I purchased (discussed here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516642) allows for complete adjustment. Once it's adjusted, you can remove the projector from the mount without changing the mounting position -- very cool.

jonjandrews,
What did you use to determine contrast & brightness- Avia, DVE? Check this thread out if you have a moment. My settings using Avia are posted on 5/27. Came up with -10 on brightness!
Still "bothered" by this extreme setting. Using Toshiba SD-3755 player, 480i over component. Also have total light control and dark walls, etc.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=543915&page=1

My OCD is definitely in high-gain on this project. I'll measure everything at least twice and still be disappointed if my picture edges don't exactly line up with the screen. :)

Nothru - search for my earlier timing post (mid-March). I had similar problems with syncing from my 6800. The Nvidia driver's 59.94 Hz 720p worked for me.

aerospace - I compared a crap RGBHV cable vs. HDMI. The desktop looked slightly better with HDMI, but DVDs looked very close - to the point where when enjoying the movie I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference even in a blind A/B. That said, I'm still using HDMI for all my main sources and will likely buy an HDMI switcher in the future.

HDMI is pretty picky with what is syncs to. RGBHV is much better - for example 1024x768 as well as 720p 72 Hz and 48 Hz worked for me in RGBHV, but did not via HDMI. I didn't try 640x480 or 800x600 (and I no longer have it hooked up). Most newer games can be forced into 1280x720.

Even after reading the Pj Central brightness uniformity comment, I've not seen any similar problem on mine. Of course I have a most white room which likely would mask this sort of problem.


SJK: dithering definition. (http://www.webstyleguide.com/graphics/dither.html) In the DLP realm, this is what creates green worms and posterization artifacts.

Many thanks. The PJ will be hooked up again in a week and I will tell you how it turns out.

Jeffcom

I use Avia for calibration and use the all black and all white screens with the 2 moving bars for contrast and brightness. I then adjust until the dimmer of the 2 bars remains barely visible. Actually for contrast I could go up to +1 without losing the 2nd bar but I feel I get a more pleasant picture at around 0 or -1. This is with hdmi. Each input will yield different results. When using component my brightness setting is lower.

Can someone explain how to calibrate for other sources like say for HD or xbox with the MT700? Because not all sources are going to have the same level of black.

Thanks

Jon

Good point Jon. My Dish 921 has a very reduced brightness output compared to my previous HD Dish receiver -- the 6000. With both my prior CRT and the MT700 I've had to adjust brightness to compensate quite a bit. From the "Smart Calibrations" website, here's their recommendations on using the HDNET test patterns to calibrate for contrast and brightness:

"Setting CONTRAST (or PICTURE) and BRIGHTNESS

Using the gray patches with numbers across the bottom you can make some reasonable CONTRAST and BRIGHTNESS adjustments. To adjust brightness, look at the rightmost square which actually has a very dim number 10 in it. You should just barely be able to make out the number 10. If you can see it clearly your BRIGHTNESS is too high. If you can't see it at all your BRIGHTNESS is too low. I would recommend turning down BRIGHTNESS until you can't see it and then gradually raising it until you just make it out. That does not mean your brightness will be perfect as there are other issues that can affect it. One is ambient light. You will probably notice that you would set it differently if the room is totally dark vs. if there is ambient light. Also, some displays don't "hold black" very well which means the brightness varies depending on the overall luminance of the image. This test pattern is pretty average, but if you watch lots of dark programming (movies) or lots of bright programming (sports) you may still need to adjust brightness one way or another.

If you have a fixed pixel display (DLP, LCD, etc.) you can make sure you aren't crushing the whites or maxing out one of the colors by having your CONTRAST too high. Look at the leftmost (white) square and make sure you can see the number 0 in it. If not, lower CONTRAST until you can. You may then still notice a significant color shift between the 0 square and the 1 square. On DLP's you'll usually notice the 1 square looks reddish. If you see this, continue lower contrast until the two squares look about the same color of gray.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Adjusting CONTRAST will affect BRIGHTNESS and vice versa so go back and forth until they both look good."

I hope that helps.

For something like an Xbox that has no calibration image available, you have to find black and white images.

Lower brightness on the blackest blackscreen you can find until lowering brightness does not actually make the screen any darker, then back it off a notch or two (I use loading screens).

Find a screen with bright white gradiations possible then raise contrast until some of the distinct areas meld into the brightest white, then back it off a notch or two (clouds can be used for this).

Repeat a couple times as setting contrast and brightness affect one another.

Gimp,

Could you not just put your Avia disc in the Xbox.... as it is also a DVD player?

MikeSRC

My contrast is set at -1 and brightness at -2 and yes I have total light control. I may buy another upconverting dvd player with hdmi to compare to. I am really curious to see why I have this much noise in the blacks.

Jon

That's pretty normal settings for component, but I've found the HDMI input to use higher settings with my DVD player. You shouldn't be getting much black dithering with brightness that low. One way to check that was posted on another thread is to put up a black screen, then look into the lens through the Avia green filter. You'll see some dithering and as you increase the brightness, it suddenly becomes much worse at a particular settings. One click down from there is usually the best spot to set it.

Of course, you could always use an ND2 filter to really get rid of the dithering.

I just got to the place where I can play games on my MT700 again. Time has been short so I've mainly been watching movies.

I was sampling a few of my XBox games when I noticed it -- there are these strange bright spots going on in my image. It's really only noticeable on a black background, but it's quite obvious from the seating area. They look like roughly 3" circles of barely increased brightness on my 54x96 screen. There's one in the lower right corner, one just to left of center at the bottom, and one a little further left and centered vertically.

I put something in front of the screen to make sure it's not a screen issue. I checked other inputs and sources and they are always there. It looks to me like flaws in the optics. I guess there's the possibility something is funky with the bulb.

Anyone heard of this before? I guess my projector will be going on a trip to the shop. :(

benchobi -- It sounds like your MT700 is too bright (turn down the contrast). Have you calibrated it (AVIA or DVE)? I'd do a calibration and some more checking before you "send it in", you may just have a set-up problem. See the previous 4 posts (starting with ssj2's - #1092).

@benchobi

Try to change the sharpness on the projector - if the brigt spots get sharper/unsharper if you change the sharpness its most likely dust within the projection system.
I had once such problems - but that was after I changed the bulb and obviously some dust came into the inner system.

But in your case this should be a guarantee issue - talk with you dealer about this.


Regards

Atlas

CT:

I have calibrated with Avia. But just as a test, I did adjust brightness and contrast to see what would happen. I usually run brightness at around -6 (adjusted with black moving bar pattern on Avia), but reducing it all the way down didn't get rid of the spots. It may be possible to adjust contrast to get rid of them but my whites will suffer badly. They're round in shape, about 3" in diameter, and appear a little more "grey" than the rest of the screen when the background is black. During "normal" viewing with a full image you can't see them, but on a game or something with a black menu background they stand out. Not glaring, but once you notice them you can easily see them.

As a side note, I do think I have an overly bright image. I read in this thread that a ND filter is a must with this PJ. Honestly, I like the brightness of the image so I haven't done the ND thing yet. I'm projecting on BO cloth, but I've given some thought to painting with some sort of gray paint to try to get gain down a little and drop the overall black level.

Atlas:

I'll try that tonight. I didn't do that last night.

Also, one thing I thought about this morning is that I'm running at full zoom down. That is, my projector is mounted as far away from the screen as possible to get a 54x96 image with the zoom at minimum. I need to see if adjusting the zoom has an effect.


Edit: I've done some research on dust blobs. As I understand it, the MT700 is sealed so if there's dust in there I'm outta luck for a user fix. I may pick up a can of compressed air on the way home this evening and clean the accessible areas around the lamp - although I'm thinking that if my problem really is dust it would have to be inside the light engine to look like what I'm seeing.

Thanks.

if the image is too bright, Why use a ND filter? Can't one just decrease the brightness?

Can someone please explain

When people are talking about the picture being too bright, they're referring to the lumen output of the projector, which can't be "turned down" below the low lamp setting. The "Brightness" adjustment on any display is actually setting black level which has nothing to do with lumen output.

benchobi, are you seeing this problem with other sources or just your Xbox? If it's something in the projector (dust, etc.), it should show up in other sources as well.

Mike:

I can see it on any input. I checked with my Xbox and my sat box and it showed up with both sources - Xbox is on component and sat box is on S-vid. My lamp is set on "low" by the way.

The easiest way to see it is to set the background for no signal to black (instead of blue) and switch to an unused input. I verified the issue is there on multiple inputs.

Thanks.

I'm guessing dust or some kind of debris...

Benchobi if your projector is on and you look from the side at the lens (never look inside the lens or you damage your eyes) can you see some smudges which might be the source of your problem?

Clearly the answer is UFOs and y'all are just covering it up.

Clearly the answer is UFOs and y'all are just covering it up.

Yep... Unidentified, Fuzzy, Object. :)

Kjelt,
Do you have a MT-700 with what appears to be smudges on the left part of the lens? Thought I was the only one. Is there a remedy? If indeed smudges, some photographic lens cleaner should do the job.

Jeff, i have some of it on my lens but it is not on one place it is just a tiny layer i think. Not very disturbing to me yet. I reread the manual a couple of times and it clearly says not to touch the lens just use compressed air. The problem is that compressed air does not help for this. So I leave it as it is, I am afraid to damage the lens and get scratches on it. I have a friend who owns very expensive camera's and he says some lenses are coated and scratch easily or damage the coating even when cleaning it with distilled water and a soft lenscloth. When he buys a new lens he always puts a UVfilter in front of it that he does clean. Then each year or so he replaces the filter with a new one. I think about doing the same for the MT700, next week or so I am getting a color filter (not UV ofcourse :) ) and let the projector be ISF recalibrated.

I just got to the place where I can play games on my MT700 again. Time has been short so I've mainly been watching movies.

I was sampling a few of my XBox games when I noticed it -- there are these strange bright spots going on in my image. It's really only noticeable on a black background, but it's quite obvious from the seating area. They look like roughly 3" circles of barely increased brightness on my 54x96 screen. There's one in the lower right corner, one just to left of center at the bottom, and one a little further left and centered vertically.

I put something in front of the screen to make sure it's not a screen issue. I checked other inputs and sources and they are always there. It looks to me like flaws in the optics. I guess there's the possibility something is funky with the bulb.

Anyone heard of this before? I guess my projector will be going on a trip to the shop. :(

I have the same light circles on my PE7700 on 2 different units now the first was noticeable on most dark(star backgrounds like star wars) scenes during a movie. The second units has 4 light circles but are not as bright and are vary hard to find, just in long dark scenes with no other light on the screen.

Bq is aware of the problem in my case and a tech on the phone said they were dust on the back or in the lens. Not sure what I am going to due at lease these light circles I have now are only seen on scenes changes where the director used a vary long dark pause allowing you eyes to adjust to total darkness.

I reread the manual a couple of times and it clearly says not to touch the lens just use compressed air. The problem is that compressed air does not help for this. So I leave it as it is, I am afraid to damage the lens and get scratches on it. I have a friend who owns very expensive camera's and he says some lenses are coated and scratch easily or damage the coating even when cleaning it with distilled water and a soft lenscloth.

Hmm....my manual says compressed air, a lens brush, or a soft lens cloth with lens cleaner are all okay....it's on page 30. Of the english part. :)

I would recommend lens cleaning paper over a cloth. You typically don't want to reuse anything with lens cleaning. I've had good results with lens tissue and the Formula MC cleaning solution from 2filter.com, found here (http://www.2filter.com/prices/products/formulamc.html).

The lens cleaning paper I picked up feels kind of "crispy"...is that what it should be? Normally I wouldn't worry about such things but besides a truck this is the most expensive thing I own (house not paid for)....

Kjelt:

I can see some faint smudges in the upper left corner of the lens. Left when facing the ceiling-mounted PJ that is. Zoom doesn't affect the spots. Adjusting focus does not cause them to go away. I took the bulb out and used compressed air to clean as much as I could safely clean. Also cleaned the lens with air. By projecting on a piece of paper in front of the lens I can tell at least one if not all are still there. I don't have very good light control so it will be a couple of hours before I can recreate the conditions from last night. I suspect my original fears are true - a visit to the shop is in my PJ's future.

- - - - - - - - -

checklst:

It sounds like you have the exact same problem. Hate to hear your second unit has the same problem. That's also what I'm worried about - sending it for repair and getting it back in same condition. I'll probably go ahead and chance it because the circles really pull me out of the game. I won't be happy until it's fixed. Otherwise, this is still a great PJ.

Could you not just put your Avia disc in the Xbox.... as it is also a DVD player?

You could but the settings would likely be valid only for 480i, since out of the box the Xbox plays DVDs only at 480i.

Hmmmm

I have selected 480p, 720p, and 1080i on my X-box.......

Kjelt:

checklst:

It sounds like you have the exact same problem. Hate to hear your second unit has the same problem. That's also what I'm worried about - sending it for repair and getting it back in same condition. I'll probably go ahead and chance it because the circles really pull me out of the game. I won't be happy until it's fixed. Otherwise, this is still a great PJ.

They sent me a new PJ and the second unit has 4 blobs, not one like the first. I am not in a dusty environment and the blobs were their from the start telling me it came to me this way. If it was dust in my environment I should see more as time goes by but both never had any more accumulate so it leads me to believe the dust or flaws of some sort is within the glass lens elements. No way to clean!!!!!

Not sure if I am going to ask for another new unit my dealer says he will do what ever I want. I know at some point they will not replace and I don't want to be stuck with one that can be noticed during the movie like the first PJ. It's still a great PJ.

Hmmmm

I have selected 480p, 720p, and 1080i on my X-box.......

Despite the settings, unless you've modded your box, DVD playback will only be 480i AFIAK.

kjelt,
On page 30 of manual it states use of proper lens cleaner, cloth or brush is ok. I have not done anything since there appears to be no effect on PQ. What I described can only be seen while PJ is on and looking at lens at an angle. Wonder if this might be a reflection of some inner workings of PJ.

Anyone notice this.

edit- late post.

Are these smudges and blobs both within the lens system and thus cannot be cleaned, requiring PJ be sent out for service?

When I had my Optoma H30 it had the dust blobs too. I sent it back to Optoma and asked them to clean it. There cleaning took card of the spots onthe indide of the lena. To keeep the outside of the lens clean I have the paper and cleaning fluid from2filter.com that MikeSRC reccomended. It works great. When my projector came back from Optoma it had finger prints on the outside of the lens.

Yes you are both right, in the manual it does say lens cleaner, and just two phrases later it says not to use paper towels or it can damage the coating.
So be carefull not to use any chemical that can hurt the coating and the lens paper should be totally clean. You never can be to carefull with these things.

Does anyone know the lens size?

My MT-700 is suppose to arive today and would like to put a UV lens on it right out of the box.

Ddog!!

I got my 67mm ND2 filter. It does fit, but doesn't do so snugly. I'll have to think up some way to mount it.
This has been answered several times :cool: .

IIRC, FG (or another member) used a rubber band around the filter to make it a tight fit :D .

Thax CT,

But I think I'll keep surching for the right size...........Something about using a rubber band just doesn't sound so good.

Ddog!!

Thax CT,

But I think I'll keep surching for the right size...........Soming about using a rubber band just doesn't sound so good.

Ddog!!
Just don't get the rubber band out of the back of a dusty drawer somewhere... :D

A small piece of Electrical Tape would work too. Anything to make the filter fit a little tighter :eek: .

ddog, you won't find one, the next smaller size is 62mm and the next larger size is 72mm. What is needed is around 68mm (I believe) which isn't made. Your only other choice is to tape a ND2 4 x 4 filter sheet (from the Lee filter pack?). The 67mm filter will fit, it's just a little loose, from what I've read.

Well Clause, it looks like you're right.

After doing a very quick search for a 68mm UV filter I came up with nothing.

Back to the drawing board.

Ddog!!

No "e" on my first name. I'm not a dependent clause :D .

Projector lens covering...
How are you guys covering the projector lens, when not in use? Is it customery to place the lens cover on the projector? Since I assume most are ceiling mounted, it seems putting the cover on would be quite a hassle.

ddog/DonRC/CT_Wiebe

I use a 67mm filter as recommended on this forum but instead of a rubber band which is a hit and miss with getting it to fit correct I use Shoe Goo. I placed 4 small blobs on the filter and it stays in place without any issue. I think 2 blobs would do.

It holds the filter quite nicely and is still removable if you so desired. A nice thing is you can then add additional color filters as need (for what ever reason) because the Shoe Goo can support some additional weight than the rubber band.

I use a 67mm filter as recommended on this forum but instead of a rubber band which is a hit and miss with getting it to fit correct I use Shoe Goo. I placed 4 small blobs on the filter and it stays in place without any issue. I think 2 blobs would do.

You have to have a full assortment of different thickness rubbber bands. :D

I like the Shoe Goo idea, Michael. Have to give that a try. Thanks for the tip.

I think I may be the 1st to have bulb failure after maybe only 50 hours of use. While watching Gladiator on TNT HD the picture went off, and the lamp light turned Red. According to the manual this means the lamp is dead.

I tried to re-start it and it sounds like it is trying to start three times b/c it makes a sound like electrical arcing (sp?) three distinct times.

Obviously I have not had this long what is the warranty on a lamp?

Lamp warranty is 3 months/500 hours. Mine was just replaced this week at 160 hours. Flickering, not dead. So far so good on the new one, although it's only been two days.

Projector lens covering...
How are you guys covering the projector lens, when not in use? Is it customery to place the lens cover on the projector? Since I assume most are ceiling mounted, it seems putting the cover on would be quite a hassle.

Not if you are 2 meters tall (6,56 ft) like me :D

Projector "performance" vs "reliability"
I was all set to purchase a MT-700/PE-7700, but following this forum recently has made me reconsider (one again) whether a DLP projector is right for me. I know this topic has been beat to death, but here's my current thinking on this issue:
1. MT-700/PE-700 issues:
a. DOA units
b. Dust blobs
c. Dithering
d. Flickering/ early failing lamp bulb
e. Rainbow ( for some undefined population)
2. DLP (Sanyo Z-3)
a. More SDE than DLP
b. Less brightness
c. Less contrast
d. Early bulb dimming?
I am looking for a projector that I can plug in, power up and enjoy for years, with little or no "reliability" issues. I'm not interested in getting the last 10% performance improvement, if it comes with reliability issues. Is my thinking/logic/data faulty in this DLP/LCD comparison?
Thanks in advance for you thoughts.

Projector "performance" vs "reliability"
I was all set to purchase a MT-700/PE-7700, but following this forum recently has made me reconsider (one again) whether a DLP projector is right for me. I know this topic has been beat to death, but here's my current thinking on this issue:
1. MT-700/PE-700 issues:
a. DOA units
b. Dust blobs
c. Dithering
d. Flickering/ early failing lamp bulb
e. Rainbow ( for some undefined population)
2. DLP (Sanyo Z-3)
a. More SDE than DLP
b. Less brightness
c. Less contrast
d. Early bulb dimming?
I am looking for a projector that I can plug in, power up and enjoy for years, with little or no "reliability" issues. I'm not interested in getting the last 10% performance improvement, if it comes with reliability issues. Is my thinking/logic/data faulty in this DLP/LCD comparison?
Thanks in advance for you thoughts.
I'm far from an expert, but it seems to me that dust blobs, dithering, and early failing lamp bulbs are a problem with LCD as well as DLP, so really aren't an "MT700/PE7700" problem. Dust blobs in particular seem to be more of a problem for LCD than for DLP, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe the list should look something like the following?

1. MT-700/PE-700 issues:
a. Rainbow ( for some small undefined population)
2. DLP (Sanyo Z-3)
a. More SDE than DLP
b. Less brightness (is this true?)
c. Less contrast (generally)
3. Projection technology general problems
a. DOA units
b. Dust blobs (worse on LCD?)
c. Dithering and motion artifacts (worse on one or the other?)
d. Early failing of bulb

Of course, maybe I'm just all wet. :p

Please, let's not turn this thread into a debate about lcd v. dlp.

HDMI Brightness issue:

Before my DVI to HDMI cable arrived I had connected my MT700 with component cables just to make sure it worked. Because I knew I'd be using the HDMI input and wouldn't again use the projector until the cable arrived, I didn't change the NTSC standard from US to Japan.

When the DVI to HDMI cable arrived, I had to crank brightness nearly to the max (+25) to get decent black level and shadow detail per the HDNET test pattern. Knowing this wasn't correct, I re-connected the component cables, selected 480P from my Dish 921, and changed the NTSC output to Japan.

When I switched back to the HDMI input all was right with the world, and the brightness level was correct (-5 on my set up for HDTV). Plus, much better shadow detail.

Maybe this occurred because I originally used the component inputs. It was my understand the US to Japan adjustment wasn't necessary for HDMI. If others have used only the HDM input, you may wish to hook up a component cable witha 480p output and see if the image changes / improves.

mregis,

If you want to buy a PJ, plug it in and never look at it again, you are misunderstanding PJs. This is not a tube TV that you can basically ignore.

Today was an interesting day I found out a lot of things about this projector others might have already found out but I did only today:

I had my PJ recalibrated and tried to match it with a filter. It was obvious like so many DLP PJ's that red was the weakest color so in the end we went for a red 30% filter. After calibration the contrast ratio went up from around 1500:1 (ISF calibrated no filter) to 2020:1 (ISF calibrated with cc30 filter) and the most shocking thing for me: the RBE was almost gone (i must say this is personal although many people have shared that with less lumens (by ND2 filtering or bigger screen) they have less RBE problems. Yes the picture has less lumens then without filter but since I use a 92" screen i didn't need all the lumens this puppy has in store and rather miss out on the RBE.

Another thing that was interesting was the White setting in advanced menu, this increased the contrast significantly without altering the color settings. The problem is that without a filter it was creating a lot of distortion in the picture (white crawlers) but with the filters there were no obvious artifacts.

Also what I find not very clear in the manual is that the MT700 stores its presets differently for every input BUT also for every mode for that particular input. For instance I used component 1 input with 576i and we stored al the calibration presets. After turning the dvd player to 576p we had to store all calibration presets again since this is another memory for this projector. Very interesting since this means you have to store your calibration setting for each input and each mode. I didn't find this so explicitly explained in the manual and something easily looked over.

Now I have to wait for my own red glass filter to arrive (it has been ordered), by the way it is not 68mm but I believe 52mm which will fit in the inside ring of the lens and probably (not sure since it has not arrived yet) let me allow to put the dustcap still on. When it arrives I will post my findings.

Kjelt - could you post (or pm me) the relative change in color settings from ISF calibrated without the CC30 to ISF calibrated with the CC30 filter?

I know your absolute values are of no use since everyone's bulb is different. However *if* all MT700s are at least a bit deficient in red, adding a CC30 and matching your relative change in settings should provide some significant contrast benefit.

I'm certainly willing to be a guineau pig. At worst I'm out the cost of a CC30 filter. Heck maybe I'll even buy a light meter to see what the difference really is.

Also, since you went with a CC30 Red filter, it sounds like your calibrator found your pj to be significantly deficient in only red. Is this correct?

From another post it sounds like a CC30 filter cuts light transmission by roughly 50%, so I could replace my ND2 and at least not be any worse. (EDIT: noticed on the Smart III site that a CC30R only cuts light by 15% - that's the trouble with believing everything you read).

MikeSRC - any chance of doing some filter work? Since you get to calibrate a lot of these it would sure be interesting to know if they tend to be color deficient in a similar way.

Hmmmm

I have selected 480p, 720p, and 1080i on my X-box.......

But DVDs, such as Avia, will not be played back at 480p, 720p, or 1080i on an Xbox, unless you have it modded. You can certainly try it if you'd like. I never bought DVD playback for the Xbox, so I can't. However, on my MT700 480i/480p from other sources (HDTivo in my case) need different brightness/contrast settings.

Projector "performance" vs "reliability"
1. MT-700/PE-700 issues:
a. DOA units
b. Dust blobs
c. Dithering
d. Flickering/ early failing lamp bulb
e. Rainbow ( for some undefined population)
2. DLP (Sanyo Z-3)
a. More SDE than DLP
b. Less brightness
c. Less contrast
d. Early bulb dimming?


I'll try not to turn this into a LCD vs. DLP argument, but since it is an MT700 thread I must point out its virtues.

First off I'm an LCD refugee (PLV-Z1) and paid nearly $1000 more for the MT700 over the AE700, so you know in advance which side I came down on.

1) Dustblobs: with an MT700 or other sealed light engine DLP what you get from the factory should be what you end up with. I'm got no dustblobs visible on my screen and am happy. With any of the LCD pjs I've read about (HS-51 better in this regard?), you get the dust from the factory *plus* whatever gets blown in. Considering the Z3 has blowholes, I'd say this is still a problem.

2) Peek-a-boo scanlines: These drove me nuts on my LCD and I was constantly tweaking to try to get rid of them. I think I spent nearly as much time changing the flicker settings as watching movies. Read up on these.

3) Don't forget LCD vertical banding... Wasn't a big deal on my Z1, but still a worry if you get a bad one - see all the voodoo with people keeping their AE700/Z3's unplugged at night.

4) LCD motion blur: pretty bad on the Z1 (maybe this is better on the newer panels)

5) DOA/lamp failures: I don't think there are enough reports to be anything to worry about here (2 of each here? with how many thousands of units shipped?).

6) Color accuracy: The MT700 has measured as being fairly accurate out of the box. I'm not sure where the Z3 stands here.

Ok, how about some zoom talk again. I was playing around tonight while watching The Sting and came up with some bizarre numbers. Somebody tell me if I'm doing this wrong or what. This is an R2 PAL disc labeled as 1.85:1 and it is non-anamorphic. Player is Denon 2900 in progressive. Haven't checked other discs, yet.

If I run it in 4:3 mode and measure the picture area, I get a ratio of 1.75:1.
If I run it in Zoom, I get 1.987:1.
If I run it in Through, I get 1.64:1.

Now we've discussed before that the zoom is off, so that isn't surprising. But why the difference in 4:3 mode vs native pixel? Is this a different shaped pixel issue with the DVDp vs the MT700? I can't think of anything else that would make this happen, 4:3 and Through should be identical shapes I thought.

Oh, and, has anyone contacted Toshiba about the zoom problem? I would really like to get that fixed for playing non-anamorphic SD sources.

Ok, how about some zoom talk again. I was playing around tonight while watching The Sting and came up with some bizarre numbers. Somebody tell me if I'm doing this wrong or what. This is an R2 PAL disc labeled as 1.85:1 and it is non-anamorphic. Player is Denon 2900 in progressive. Haven't checked other discs, yet.

If I run it in 4:3 mode and measure the picture area, I get a ratio of 1.75:1.
If I run it in Zoom, I get 1.987:1.
If I run it in Through, I get 1.64:1.

Now we've discussed before that the zoom is off, so that isn't surprising. But why the difference in 4:3 mode vs native pixel? Is this a different shaped pixel issue with the DVDp vs the MT700? I can't think of anything else that would make this happen, 4:3 and Through should be identical shapes I thought.
Is it possible that this is an encoding problem with the DVD? Does the same issue show up in other DVDs as well?

I don't believe "zoom" is meant to enlarge non-anamorphic DVDs. Rather, I believe it's meant to stretch the top and bottom of 2.35:1 films to fill a 16 x 9 screen. Here's from the owner's manual:

"Zoom: Enlarges an image with letterbox format to display it in full-screen format with a 16:9 aspect ratio. The upper and lower portions of the image are cropped. Use this setting for Cinemascope and Video vista widescreen formats."

The accompanying graphic next to the description seems to support this as well. One way to tell for sure is to put in a 2.35:1 anamorphic DVD and see if it stretches just the top and bottom, while filling the entire screen.

AFAIK, the zoom mode (on any HDTV) is supposed to be for non-anamorphic widescreen sources whether DVD, VHS, LD, etc. The stupid vertical stretch modes should be a secondary option, they are just for J6P who doesn't care about how it looks. Sometimes "letterbox" is the term used for "non-anamorphic". But if you're right, and the MT700's zoom is supposed to zoom vertically, it is even worse. Because it stretches too far horizontally (or not far enough vertically), that is the problem. It doesn't even come close to stretching 2.35 to fullscreen. This was discussed awhile back, there is something wrong with the zoom, because it doesn't do anything correctly.

I'm going to try other DVDs when I have a chance, but I don't see how the encoding would matter. The player was always sending the same signal in my above observations. I could also try changing the player's settings to see what happens.

I just got my MT700 on Monday. This is my first FP. I love it. I have used comp1 with my samsung HDTV receiver and the picture is awesome. I have one problem though. Comp2, BNC connections, I have a VGA to RGBVH cable. When I connect it and use my laptop with 1280x720 at 60Hz it doesn't sync right. It shows in the bottom right corner (720p 60). But the picture is bad. The colors are off and if a try to run a movie or move a window to that screen, it loses the sync and says unsupported. I first thought it was the cable. So I used the cable on a monitor and it worked fine. Then I tried moving the connections around on the projector but to no avail. I did find out that it is not even using the Vertical and Horizontal connections. If I remove them from the projector or swap them I get the same picture with or without them. It's like it thinks it is component and not RGBVH. So i tried removing the V or H on my monitor with the same cable and I got no picture. This leads me to believe that the input may be bad. Any thoughts? I can post some pictures if necessary, not sure how to though.
-tom

You need to use the GRB intput for a "VGA" device like a PC. GRB and Comp2 use the same physical connection but expect different signals.

That is what I am using. I have my vga out on my pc into the VGA cable to the 5 BNC connections on the projector called comp2, one to R, one to G, one to B, one to H, one to V. This connection works on my monitor but not the projector.
-tom

Yeah, but on the MT700, are you selecting the "Component 2" or "GBRHV"? You need to select "GBRHV" as the input, not "Component 2"

Now that makes sense. I read the manual a bunch of times. And finally found the spot where it states to use that as the input, in the PIP/POP section. I assumed, I know when you assume (make an ass out of u and me) that it was like a tv input one input selection per physical connection. Thanks for the help.
-tom

cheezemo....... that is an example of what makes AVS so great!

MikeSRC - any chance of doing some filter work? Since you get to calibrate a lot of these it would sure be interesting to know if they tend to be color deficient in a similar way.

I'd like to give it a try. It might achieve many of the same advantages as an ND2 filter, but with the added benefit of more closely balancing the output level of each primary. Looking at CC filter options, they seem to be pretty expensive. Anyone know of a good source?

Mike,

Try 2filter.com or 2filter.net

2filter's always my first stop, but they don't really have much online for CC filters.

Oh yeah, I could always call them though, duh. :rolleyes:

Edit: Unfortunately, they're closed until Monday. :(

Now I have to wait for my own red glass filter to arrive (it has been ordered), by the way it is not 68mm but I believe 52mm which will fit in the inside ring of the lens and probably (not sure since it has not arrived yet) let me allow to put the dustcap still on. When it arrives I will post my findings.

That's an excellent idea, Kjelt. I just tried a 52 mm filter that I have for my digital camera. Using the threaded side of the filter, it can (sort of) screw in the inner ring to hold it. And, yes, you can put the dustcap on over it.

As a follow up to my own question, I found that Nikon makes a 52 mm CC30R filter that's reasonably priced, so I ordered one. Do a Froogle search for buying options. I'll let you all know how it works out.

Guys, I have been preoccupied with a little RC flying for the past few weeks, and have not watched any movies.

I turned on the Toshiba tonight and DAMN.....pulsing picture, not bulb though because it does not happen on test pattern.

The test pattern revealed a strange artifact, on every 25% vertical line there is a vertical line of mirrors that are freaking out, going neon blue, they are very structured and randomly going neon blue to black.

On a video source there is awful dithering in the dissolve from bright white to a duller intenstity, again plauged by this neon pixel structure.

It also seems to have a problem with the deinterlacing on all sources, combing and motion artifacting like crazy...

DAMN.... I shudder the thought of dealing with an RMA...

It would seem I have an electronics a/d or d/a problem or possibly power supply issue.

I tried a new cord and outlet for good measure...no such luck....

I will be calling Toshiba tomorrow and let you guys know how this transpires....


This sucks....

TJ

That does suck, but I can tell you that Toshiba's been great with repair turnaround. Prepaid overnight shipping both ways and only 1-2 days in the shop. If you ship it tomorrow, you'll probably have it back by Wednesday or Thursday next week.

Well... in response to the last two posts all I can say is "That's too bad - but that's not bad!"

Good luck with it. Keep us all informed about how well Toshiba treats you in the service calls and such. I'm sure it will go fine.

Anyone know how much bulb replacement will be when the day comes? If the manual says 3000 hours does that mean some people get 2000 and some get 4000?

That's an excellent idea, Kjelt. I just tried a 52 mm filter that I have for my digital camera. Using the threaded side of the filter, it can (sort of) screw in the inner ring to hold it. And, yes, you can put the dustcap on over it.

The other good part is that the 52mm filters are cheaper then the 68mm. :D
Yeah I know: I am dutch :rolleyes:

I just got my 52mm CC30R filter. Nikon, probably from the same ebay seller that MikeSRC is getting his from. Initial impressions later tonight, using Kjelt's relative settings (which may or may not work, depending on how close our settings are and how linear the color drives are).

However it's likely that I won't have any good information until if and when I buy Smart III (next month at the earliest as I have a roll of linacoustic in my garage waiting to acoustically treat my HT).

52mm screws on fine for me.

The 52mm being cheaper is a nice plus. I bought a ND4 52mm to try with a high power sample and have a ND2 52mm on the way.

Slightly off topic, but does anyone have any good links on roll-up/removable wall darkening ideas? Now that I'm looking at filters and tweaking for the extra 500:1 I really need to darken my room. I'm thinking up black roller blinds on strategic parts of the wall (don't tell my wife - my plan is to ask for forgiveness rather than permission).

Nothru - I believe 3000 hours is a hard stop where the pj will tell you to replace the bulb. I believe you can reset the bulb counter, but if the bulb blows up badly in there you're likely screwed. I'd expect it's pretty easy for Tosh to tell that your 3100 hour bulb does not match to the 100 hour lamp counter.

After my past pj 300 hour experience (and with being an uber scrooge about watching movies), I'll be happy with 1000 hours. Of course now I can just rationalize away any concern by adding up the cost of the MT700 plus number of bulbs to reach the price of a 92" plasma. I think I'd have enough bulbs running to keep the pj playing movies for me in my casket.

Here's an fyi....

The Chief RPA-118 projector mount looks like a perfect fit for the MT-700. Chief lists it as applicable to the BenQ PE7700 but, upon contacting them, they couldn't verify that it would fit the MT-100. My MT-700 came yesterday (thanks Mike!) and the RPA-118 arrived today. The mounting plate aligns perfectly with the MT-700 mounting holes. I hope to get this thing on the ceiling tomorrow.

This is not only my first PJ, but today in my family room was the first time I've ever seen a HT PJ in action. On my textured white wall, it looked great. This forum helped me to see the light (thanks). I'm looking forward to getting my sound wired and a fixed screen to really see what HT is all about.

Just tried my cc30r out for a bit. Subjectively it seems to have more punch. My drives are all much closer together, which should mean I have higher contrast. I don't have a light meter to really tell, though. Color looks correct to me.

I've not been able to do any A/Bing to really check color and contrast with and without because my wife seems to think the pj is hers as well and wants to watch TV.

Relative settings, based on Kjelts's settings (thanks Kjelt!) changed were Gains R:-4, G:+16, B:+18, offsets were unchanged.

My original non-CC30R calibrated settings had the R gain ~+14 over G and B. Now G/B gains are ~+6 over R. Assuming the max contrast would come from RGB gains being equal (which may or may not be true on the MT700), a CC20R or CC25R (if such a thing exists) might be best for my pj. I will likely try out a CC20R when and if I buy Smart III.

I've also threw on the ND4. As expected black is very good. I've not really been bugged so far by lowered whites, but need to watch some more.

Kjelt - could you post what you moved your white setting up to? Was this under Picture/Extended Picture Settings/Color Enhancement?

Kjelt - could you post what you moved your white setting up to? Was this under Picture/Extended Picture Settings/Color Enhancement?

Yes and you have to experiment , turn it up using a softcoloured (pastel) computerpicture with details or some other testpicture and see if there is going to be any artifacts. Without the filter I couldn't turn it up even 1 spot, with the filter it is all the way up (10 i believe) which resulted in a gain in contrast from 1600 something to 2020.

It could well be that a CC20 is better for you, it also depends on your screenwidth, screengain and even your source.

Oh yeah BTW Flyinggimp, did you also notice a quieter image and an almost total absence of RBE ?

Kjelt - Choice of filter should be completely dependent on the projector. Source can have an effect on how R, G, and B are balanced, but not on how where the pj and bulb are deficient on the spectrum of light.

For anyone who's reading this and is wondering what the hell I'm talking about, here's my primer based on my understanding of how adding a filter to a pj helps.

With a filter we're trying to balance bulb spectrum deficiencies optically rather than digitally. Doing so digitally, i.e. by restricting the gains to get the right color balance unnecessarily limits the steps between full off and full on (contrast).

For example, my OpticOne calibrated gains witn no CC30R were:

R: 54 G: 40 B: 39

In a simplified way of thinking of this R has 54 steps or gradiations between off and on while G/B only have 40/39 steps each between off and on. Having fewer steps means lower contrast. Fewer steps also means more dithering, as dithering is just a way of inserting more steps that a device can't reproduce.

after adding the CC30R and using the "KRS" (Kjelt Relative Settings) I had:

R: 50: G: 56 B: 57

Now, back in our simplified view, R has a few less steps at 50, but now G/B have 56/57 steps each. Overall the pj now has more steps between full black and full white, and therefore has a higher on/off contrast ratio.

Ideally we would turn up all the gains until they make the image no brighter, slap a magic infinitely adjustable color filter on, and have D65 color. Of course in the real world we're limited to what filters photographers use.

We may happen to be lucky *if* the MT700 turns out to be consistently just red deficient. Then each person just has to go up and down the CCxxR line to find the right match. Given that both Kjelt's and my non-CC30R calibrated settings were both red-deficient (i.e. G/B gains limited), chances are good this is the case. Got to wait for MikeSRC to weigh in for a larger sample.

Kjelt - on the white level setting, I didn't see any difference on the screen when I moved it from 1 up to 10, though I did have the CC30R on by the time I started messing with white level. I happen to be using HDMI, what inputs were you using? Also, with the CC30R on I assume you still see an obvious difference on the screen when moving White from 1-10, is this correct?

The picture did seem less noisy. I did not see any dithering artifacts and saw no rainbows over 3 hours of viewing. I very rarely see dithering artifacts, but generally see a rainbow or three a night, even with an ND2 filter. Tonight I watched most of the time with just the CC30R (the ND4 ended up being too dark, though it was a good match for my High Power sample).

Of course I expected dithering noise to be improved with this tweak. Since I'm incredibly psychosomatic I could very well be seeing what I want to see. This weekend I hope to A/B my dithering artifact test scenes to tell for sure.

Wanna see the Tosh naked? :D

--> cine4home.de

The cine4home review is excellent as usual. Maybe my translation's not so good, but it sounded like they were able to adjust the black level to remove the problem over component. If they know how to get into the service menu, I'd sure like to know how. ;)

Another thing that was puzzling was that they mentioned the Faroudja chip doing the scaling. That may be the case, but then what is the Oplus chip (seen in the first picture) doing?

Kjelt - Choice of filter should be completely dependent on the projector.
Yes well since we all own the MT700 (right?) it is single dependent on the lamp. As far as I know there is some variation in spectrum but since the chemicals used and composition are equal it should be minor. So it would surprise me if some MT700 brand new out of the box did not have the red deficiency and a high blue and later in lamplife the blue will go down. Would be interesting though :D
So the choice would be between cc20 or cc30 i think but ofcourse as I already said you should let an ISF calibrator do this.

Nice to hear you have good results and see no artifacts or RBE anymore, that is what I wanted and why I spent the extra $!
Ofcourse tastes differ and there will always be people that like hell loads lot of light and a lot of colour too no matter what.

Anyway the white setting is difficult to see? Hmmm I could see it have a little effect but you need a total light controlled, dark room , otherwise I don't think the increase in contrast from 1700 to 2000 is even visible?

Very interested in hearing more tests

but it sounded like they were able to adjust the black level to remove the problem over component.

That is not what I read, they advise to use progressive or digital input so you don't have this problem. Obviously they didn't even know the workaround from this forum.



Another thing that was puzzling was that they mentioned the Faroudja chip doing the scaling. That may be the case, but then what is the Oplus chip (seen in the first picture) doing?

Well ofcourse I don't have an answer but I do have a theory:

What if the Faroudja does scaling when and only when it also does deinterlacing?
So I mean Faroudja does deinterlacing AND scaling for non-progressive inputs.
Oplus handles scaling for progressive and digital inputs.

This has as a benefit, the interlaced signal will only pass one circuit and the faroudja already knows what the input is, so it does not have to communicate scaling info to the oplus.
I wonder if the bad scaling results that came out of the test also take this into account.

That's sounds logical, Kjelt.

Regarding the black level, looking at another (and better) translation, I can see that they did not adjust it outside of the user menu. When I first saw it, there was some reference to tuning the black level recorder, but it appears that it was just the user controls, nothing more.

BTW, I should get my CC30R filter today or tomorrow, so I'll let you know how it affect the calibration on my unit. BTW, I've done a dozen or so MT700s now and every one is about 13-17 clicks higher on the Red gain.

One thing that caught my eye in the Cine4Home Tosh700 review is Benq has added a prism in the light path which according to C4H makes it very easy to implement lens shift. C4H seemed disappointed it wasn't already included in the current models. According to C4H this change accounts for the zero offset found in the Benq twins. I guess we (or some of us) must wait until next year for lens shift, but at least we know it's in the works.

Do you all read German or is there an English translation for the Cine4home.com review. :confused:

I should get my CC30R filter today or tomorrow, so I'll let you know how it affect the calibration on my unit. BTW, I've done a dozen or so MT700s now and every one is about 13-17 clicks higher on the Red gain.

I am very curious what you think about the picture after cc30. Esp. with the results Flyinggimp tells me that it should have a positive effect on dithering and RBE.
Your calibration results show a statistically significant colour match for this projector as I suspected. Still the gain difference from 13-17 is also quit large so there might be units that will benefit more from a cc20.

That is not what I read, they advise to use progressive or digital input so you don't have this problem. Obviously they didn't even know the workaround from this forum.


No, we actually advise NOT to use the progressive component input for PAL-Material. We do know about the Japan / US Mode, but with YPbPr this did NOT solve the problem with our Testunit. It works fine for NTSC Material with 7,5IRE offset, but not for PAL.

So right now there is no other way than using DVI-Video for PAL Material....


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de


PS: I see that you are tyring out filters... I managed to raise the contrast to about 2000:1 with the matching filter...

Do you all read German or is there an English translation for the Cine4home.com review. :confused:


I also would like to read this if someone would be so kind as to point me in the English direction.

Many Thax

Ddog!! :)

Go here: http://www.online-translator.com/srvurl.asp?lang=en
select German to English and paste in this URL: http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/ToshibaMT700/MT700Test.htm

I tried Bablefish but it wouldn't work and Google didn't translate the full page.

Do you all read German or is there an English translation for the Cine4home.com review. :confused:

Google has a translator found under "more>>" at the top of their main page. Then go to the bottom right of the next page. Babelfish has a tanslator too and there are others. You're going to have problems with any of these online translators. The original text will be translated at best into twisted pigeon English. Some key words will be left in the orginal language leaving you scratching your head. For example when I read the Google translation this morning of their Tosh 700 review I was confused by the key word "telezentrische". It turns out this may have something to do with telecentric but I'm still not sure. The last thing to be aware of is these online translators will sometimes not complete your translation. You may want to save your long translations for the eveningt when the translators are less busy. This can be especially true for the 40 page long Cine4Home reviews. I always save these translations as PDF files because I never know whether I'll be able to get them again.

Thax guys, I'll give it a try.

Ddog!!

Thanks Mike. Worked fine. Will bookmark online-translator. Another great tip from the Forum! :)

Anyone on the fence like me with the decision between the MT700 and H77??
Both have great value right now, an amazing time to be purchasing a PJ because
of the way the industry is moving: buy inexpensive PJ now, and get 1080p in a few years.

But for a non-light controlled environment, would the MT700 make more sense for daytime viewing (e.g. sports, video games)? Obviously for night time viewing, the H77 would be better with the richer colors and higher contrast.

Then there's this H78 firmware upgrade chatter I hear about too which is interesting.

I am also in this same boat. Although the MT700 still seems to be 500-600 less than then H77...which I could use to upgrade the screen....firehawk vs. dalite....but that is difficult to do vs. spend more on the projector itself....

I keep hearing the H77 is much dimmer...especially for a 110"+ screen...so I am still leaning towards the MT700 or PE7700.

Jim

No, we actually advise NOT to use the progressive component input for PAL-Material.

Ok well german is not my first language, i reread and stand corrected ;)


I see that you are tyring out filters... I managed to raise the contrast to about 2000:1 with the matching filter...

Yes i got the same result here , would have been my #1 recommendation to readers

I am in Japan right now and I am negotiating with a local dept. store to buy a 700. My only concern is that this is the Japanese version (J), which means that it has a 100V /60Hz power supply (ok, this might not actually be a problem, can be solved with an outer transformer) and that probably all settings are for Japan, even the menus are in Japanese.

As far as specs, the Japanese model seems to play everything, at least from what I read at the brochure, so it seems that there would not be any compatibility problem.

But I am about to move to Hong Kong after two or three days and I wonder if that might be a better place for a purfchase.

Is there any member from Hong Kong, knowing if this projector is available there and at what price approximately?

Thanks in advance

Panayotis -- Prices and dealers are not allowed to be quoted here. It will cause this thread to be shut down. Please DON'T, this thread is too valuable. Posting availability is Ok though - check with madpoet or Kysersose.

I feel trully sorry. I didn't know this rule.

Anyway, I already bought the projector from Japan, it seemed a fair transaction. It has English manual, although the guys in the store did not know this, rather they were saying that only the Japanese manual is included.

Now the only thing that really concerns me is that when you go in the set-up menu, accessing the NTSC mode, this unit appears to have only one setting: Japan.

There is a possibility that this may be true, because it's intended for Japan. If so, is this really a problem? And if it is, can it be solved?

Thank you for your attention on this matter

Make sure you are feeding it a 480p (or 480i too I think) signal. In higher resolutions the NTSC/Japan switch is not editable, but it does seems to stick once set in a lower resolution.

Interesting... I think that may be it. Actually, I believe I edited the setting when there was nothing but a blank screen (no inputs connected). I think I saw it grayed out while viewing HD content.

Panayotis Melas

For your reference,

HK Toshiba did not import this model to HK.

But Benq 7700 will be on sale soon.

Thank you all for the information provided.

So "FlyingGimp" I understood from what you are saying, that if I feed it with a signal above 480p (e.g. 720p) it won't play the NTSC material.

Is this correct?

And if it is, is there anyone knowing a solution?

Regards to everyone

It will play NTSC at higher resolutions. However, you're able to switch the setting to "Japan" when in 480p.

The NTSC/Japan mode is really a black setup control. This means it controls where black level gets clipped. It doesn't have anything to do with whether NTSC material will actually get displayed.

What is happening with the MT700 (and the 7700, I assume) is that at 720p, 1080i (and maybe 576i/p as well) "Japan" is displayed and grayed out, but under the covers in firmware is actually using the incorrect "NTSC" black setup setting.

When feeding it a 480p signal and then switching this control to "Japan", it seems to truly set "Japan" for all modes. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5364790&highlight=ntsc+japan#post5364790) for more detail.

Higher resolutions are not "NTSC", that is why you can't change the setting. It should be defaulted to Japan for HD resolution, and it is, you can't change it. It should be Japan for 480i/p over component connections, it should be USA for 480i over composite or Svideo connections. Same goes for your sources if they have setting for this.

This is really the same as any other HDTV, the main difference is the strange nomenclature. Most say "blacker" or "darker", not "Japan".

OK, I just got my HDMI cable and because this PJ only has 1 input I'm asking you what is the best source to use it on?

A) My HD box.........Sammy sir-160 Dtv

B) DVD player..........LG-7832 (318)

When well they start putting 2 and 3 digital inputs on these things?

Any thoughts?

Ddog!!

A, for Always connect the higher resolution source to the digital video input. :D

. . . that is, unless you rarely watch HD. ;)

I have both connected via a DVI switcher, but if I had to choose, I'd probably go with the DVD player, since I only watch occasional HD sports with the HD STB.

Ddog, I would hook it up with the HD box. The DVD player will have to be scaled anyway (internally or on the projector,) so might as well hook it up with components.
It is silly to only have one hdmi input these days. It is pretty silly to have a composite video port too, although that was my first test with my kids spongebob joystick video game thing.
Have you got it set up yet? I am interested on your opinion of the projector with your screen. I still am on the fence with that part.
Warren.

In the 7700 thread there is talk about a firmware update being available next week or so. This would address the IRE problem (USA/JAPAN for mt700) and hopefully the incorrect zoom.

Is there any news about a Toshiba firmware update? MikeSRC did you contact Toshiba anymore lately?

The zoom function appears to work exactly as described in the owner's manual. I doubt we'll be seeing a "fix" -- although I hope I'm wrong.

Higher resolutions are not "NTSC", that is why you can't change the setting. It should be defaulted to Japan for HD resolution, and it is, you can't change it. It should be Japan for 480i/p over component connections, it should be USA for 480i over composite or Svideo connections. Same goes for your sources if they have setting for this.

This is really the same as any other HDTV, the main difference is the strange nomenclature. Most say "blacker" or "darker", not "Japan".

Spiky,

Did you read through the post I linked on this? Where did anyone say 720p or 1080i are NTSC?

The MT700 is incorrectly using the "NTSC" setting for 480p, 720p and 1080i over component. It displays "Japan" grayed in 720p and 1080i. However the linkage between the UI and the image processing in the firmware is broken. This is a defect in the firmware. It is not the same as other HDTVs because other HDTVs actually use the correct black setup value.

The effect of this is obvious. Do you have an MT700? If so look at the HDNet test pattern. Over component, you will see that the blackest information is simply clipped without doing the workaround I posted. No matter how high you push the brightness the last black text is not visible. Switch to HDMI and the blackest information becomes visible. Do the workaround and over component the blackest information will be visible as well.

Is there any news about a Toshiba firmware update? MikeSRC did you contact Toshiba anymore lately?

Yes, they know nothing about it over here. I think the European branches of both companies are more on the ball.

BTW, just got the CC30R filter yesterday, so I'll post some calabrated setting differences over the weekend.

Spiky,

Did you read through the post I linked on this? Where did anyone say 720p or 1080i are NTSC?
Read the two posts above yours in this thread by ssj2 and Panayotis Melas.


The MT700 is incorrectly using the "NTSC" setting for 480p, 720p and 1080i over component. It displays "Japan" grayed in 720p and 1080i. However the linkage between the UI and the image processing in the firmware is broken. This is a defect in the firmware. It is not the same as other HDTVs because other HDTVs actually use the correct black setup value.

The effect of this is obvious. Do you have an MT700? If so look at the HDNet test pattern. Over component, you will see that the blackest information is simply clipped without doing the workaround I posted. No matter how high you push the brightness the last black text is not visible. Switch to HDMI and the blackest information becomes visible. Do the workaround and over component the blackest information will be visible as well.
I have an MT700, but no HDNet. I was really only talking about the menu structure, not whether the firmware has the correct levels. Didn't someone measure the USA setting at 15IRE and the Japan at 7.5? Which would make both of them off by 7.5 too high.

The zoom function appears to work exactly as described in the owner's manual. I doubt we'll be seeing a "fix" -- although I hope I'm wrong.
Check out my earlier post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5582080&&#post5582080) on this. Also, it does not appear to zoom the same vertically and horizontally. I believe both should be increased the same ratio, leaving the aspect ratio of the letterboxed picture the same. See here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5754210&&#post5754210), as we discussed before. That's why it crops the top and bottom, theoretically, to zoom with the same aspect ratio to fill the screen for non-anamorphic sources. At least that should be the intent, according to how I read the manual:

Enlarges an image with letterbox format
to display it in fullscreen format with a 16:9
aspect ratio. The upper and lower portions of the
image are cropped. Use this setting for Cinemascope
and Vista video wide screen formats.

EDIT: Note that "Vista" is a reference to 16:9, I believe. It ought to be scaling it perfectly for that, but clearly isn't.

I think they're actually referencing 2.35:1 ratio films. The zoom is enlarging the top and bottom of such content to fill the 16:9 chip.

Getting the 2.35 to fill the 16:9 chip would be a vertical only stretch and it doesn't do that.
Warren

Read the two posts above yours in this thread by ssj2 and Panayotis Melas.

I have an MT700, but no HDNet. I was really only talking about the menu structure, not whether the firmware has the correct levels. Didn't someone measure the USA setting at 15IRE and the Japan at 7.5? Which would make both of them off by 7.5 too high.

Spiky,

I just wanted to make sure everyone was clear that the workaround is necessary and makes a visible improvement. You're right that the menu structure and control naming is pretty horrible.

Just fyi for MT700 purchasers. I was trying to get the plastic off of the front "feet" of mine today, and discovered that the threads on one of the feet are reversed (i.e. you turn the "wrong" way to loosen it). The foot in question was quite snug, and it had me scratching my head for several minutes before I figured out that I had to turn in clockwise to loosen it. I'm not sure if this is typical of PJ's in general, but I haven't seen a reverse thread like that since my '71 Challenger......

I just tried the "zoom" function on a 2.35:1 disc. It didn't stretch horizontally, but did stretch vertically. However, the vertical stretch wasn't enough to fill the panel.

NMJack, the threads are that way so it's easier to adjust when in a table-mounted position. You can just rotate both toward the middle, or both outside. The leg of mine that is reverse threaded doesn't screw in all the way, though.

NMJack, the threads are that way so it's easier to adjust when in a table-mounted position. You can just rotate both toward the middle, or both outside. The leg of mine that is reverse threaded doesn't screw in all the way, though.

I assumed that was the intent. It would be nice if they (Toshiba) told us about it though...

I assumed that was the intent. It would be nice if they (Toshiba) told us about it though...
They do, on page 21 of the manual, show a graphic of the front of the PJ with arrows pointing in opposite directions, indicating how to turn the legs. You didn't carefully read your manual from cover to cover yet? ;)

OK, I got an MT700 finally, and overall I like it, but I have a few questions while I'm evaluating it:

Here's the setup, the MT700 ceiling mounted, lighting a 48" high (~96" diag) Parkland "screen". I'm driving it at 1280x720 with my HTPC (Geforce 6800) via RGBHV (no HDMI cable yet). The room is not ideal, being basically white. So take these comments in that context.

1) How much or, better yet where, should I see dithering? Right now, the most objective way I can express this is that on test patterns, I have it set so black (16) does not dither, but I then see dithering in the 17, 18, 19, 20 steps. It's quite obvious close to the screen, but really only noticeable at the almost black (17, 18) steps from the seating position. I guess I'm just not sure how much dithering DLP uses.

2) Black level, granted I have a horible room, so the absolute black level is not going to be great, but even with that, it's (IMO) much higher than the surrounding area, ie I haven't cut the parkland yet, so even when projecting black, the picture area is quite a bit higher than just outside, I'd say the difference from outside to inside is comparable to the difference between black (16) and about level 19-20 or so. Because of this, and because it's stupid-bright :D, I expect to get an ND filter, I was planning an ND2, but locally the best I can do is ND4, would that be way too much? I also plan to Goo my screen, FWIW so I know that will help black level.

3) Last question (for now :D) Because of 1, and 2, I have this feeling that I'm missing something in the setup, without listing all my settings, I'm running 720/60 which seems to default to Japan, I've got the lamp set to Standard (should the difference between Standard and High be a lot?). Beyond that, I've borrowed some of the posted settings - Tweaked the Gamma by about 5, and adjusted the gains as suggested here. As I said I have it set so there's no dithering with black, which happens to be about -8, but with analog input, that's pretty meaningless.

Any comments, suggestions, thoughts would be greatly appreciated, and thanks for bearing with me. If you need more specific answers I can get you them later, and I can try and get screenshots of some of my comments if that would be helpful as well.

They do, on page 21 of the manual, show a graphic of the front of the PJ with arrows pointing in opposite directions, indicating how to turn the legs. You didn't carefully read your manual from cover to cover yet? ;)

Oops.... My bad. I had read the manual, but I missed that part. Thanks.

Stranger89 -

I've got a similar room - mostly white, but with a few temporary dark curtains (especially on the ceiling right above the screen helps a lot). The ND4x was a little too dim for me on my 45"x80" Do-able board screen. The ND2x was good, though I'd really like to try something in between - apparently some mfgs make ND 0.4, 0.5 (forget the units) which are betwen an ND2x and ND4x.

The ND4x was just about perfect for me on my High Power sample. I'm seriously considering a High Power to reject reflections from the side walls, though I'm waiting for CT_Wiebe to pull the trigger and report with his High Power.

"I have this feeling that I'm missing something in the setup, without listing all my settings, I'm running 720/60 which seems to default to Japan"

The next bit applies if you're using component, not hdmi. I had the same feeling of something missing or not quite right when I first got my MT700...

Just because it displays Japan and is greyed out does not mean that it actually using the Japan black setup. There is a defect in the firmware, confirmed via test patterns by a number of users, that the MT700 is defaulting to the NTSC black setup incorrectly at the 720p and 1080i ATSC resolutions. This results in near black information being lost. See here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5364790&highlight=ntsc+japan#post5364790) for the details.

Thanks for the comments.

Just because it displays Japan and is greyed out does not mean that it actually using the Japan black setup. There is a defect in the firmware, confirmed via test patterns by a number of users, that the MT700 is defaulting to the NTSC black setup incorrectly at the 720p and 1080i ATSC resolutions. This results in near black information being lost. See here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5364790&highlight=ntsc+japan#post5364790) for the details.

Yeah, I vaguely remember that, but I'm not loosing any info, I've verified that if I up the brightness that everything 0+ is visible. I will have to break down and fire up a 480i source though and make sure I've really got it set to Japan.

I simply can NOT get this projector to give me a signal over HDMI from my Geforce 6600. It's driving me insane, I don't want to get a RGB cable and give up my second component input.

Have you got your LCD displaying 720p then swapped the projector to the DVI output the LCD was connected to? This is what I do and it works fine on my one DVI output 6800. This will at least tell you that you've got the right timings and then you can mess with getting dual DVI going.

I got into my MT700 menus today, and my unit came pre-set to the "Japan" setting. Haven't seen that reported in this thread yet. Maybe Toshiba has figured this out as well. My unit was from the recent restocks that hit a few week ago.

My LCD is limited to 1024x768. The ironic thing is that I bought it so I'd have something small at the top of my equipment rack instead of getting an old 15 inch CRT.

NMJack, if you're feeding the projector HDTV with component it will show Japan but will not be the correct black level set up (unless there's been a firmware update). Therefore, you'll have to feed it 480p, set it from US to Japan, and then black level will be correct.

NMJack, if you're feeding the projector HDTV with component it will show Japan but will not be the correct black level set up (unless there's been a firmware update). Therefore, you'll have to feed it 480p, set it from US to Japan, and then black level will be correct.

I only have a component cable hook-up from my cheapo Toshiba DVD player to the PJ. At either 480i or 480p it shows "Japan" and it can't be changed. Also, I seem to recall some having problems with feeding it 480p over component, but mine handles it fine. The 480p feed seems to improve the picture. Do these symptoms suggest a firmware update in the latest batch??

NMJack, that's interesting. Have you tried calibrating with AVIA or another calibration disc? If so, do you have to increase brightness quite a bit for proper black level? If not, then perhaps there has been a fix.

No, I haven't done a calibration yet. I probably need to buy an Avia disk and do that. I'm new to HT, and that is something else I need to educate myself on....

I believe that you can't change it while the DVD is playing (in 480i/480p mode - component or S-Video inputs and not HDMI), you have to stop it first (ssj2 - is this correct?).

Really? I'll have to test that out Claus, but I suppose it's possible. Though an easy workaround would be disconnecting the S-video cable or the green component cable, which will cause it to lose sync.

Good question Claus. I don't remember, and currently use only the HDMI input. If somebody needs me to try this out I will.

Is anyone else getting this? When I watch the Simpsons in 720p on my HD Tivo or when I watch Phantom of the Opera or Chicago in 480p on my Panasonic S97, the source and resolution come up on screen about every ten seconds on so in the bottom left of the screen. It's the most annoying damn thing in the world!! How do I make it stop? It's wierd because I will watch hours of other stuff on my HD Tivo and it doesn't happen and I watched all of season 3 of Shield on the DVD player and the source never came up (actually it did on the menus for shield but that doesn't bother me.) I am running everything through an audio authority component switcher. The source never pops up on the Xbox.

I just watched about 20 minutes of Phantom of the Opera in 480i, and didn't see that, if that helps. (Probably doesn't, but I thought I'd share...) :)

OT: My wife just said, "way too many stinkin' remotes to turn on..." Looks like it's time to finally get a universal remote...

Nothru - see here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5353928&&#post5353928) .

Yes, pressing the comp 1 button actually does help on the Simpsons, but for the life of me I couldn't get the message to stop coming up on Phantom and Chicago. I switched inputs, turned the player on and off, and cursed at the machine with heartfelt wrath. Nothing helped.

... and cursed at the machine with heartfelt wrath. Nothing helped.
Weird. I would have expected that to work for sure... :D

nothru22,

I had something similar with the Benq 7700. I was getting the same problem with the sync message coming up every 10 seconds or so, albeit with the sync message on the right side of the screen (for the Benq). In addition, the color was all messed up through 480p on a DVD player. Resetting the DVD player didn't help, nor did pressing Comp1. The fix was a restart of the projector. I had a similar problem with my HD cable box. I'll go through my experience:

I had a poor cabling setup with component coming from the DVD into a Receiver for component switching. It's output is on component using a component to VGA dongle into the RGBHV inputs of the pj. My HD box is connected component to the receiver.

With this setup, every now and then I would start the system up and the PJ would start up in PIP mode with the DVD player running. Switching PIP mode off on the PJ would fix this problem.

Once on the HD box I was re-configuring the output from my HD cable box from component to HDMI, all with the projector powered on to see what PQ difference I would get going from component to HDMI. On startup, output with HDMI everything is fine, then when I attempt to activate the component side of the HD signal using the receiver then pressing the appropriate input on the PJ remote, the PJ would report sync on 1080i but nothing would be displayed. I played with switching the input on the PJ remote and restarting the HD box. Nothing worked until I restarted the PJ.

I have since gotten rid of the component to RGBHV connection. I'm still using the receiver for component switching between my DVD player and the HD cable box. I haven't tried changing inputs to the pj from HDMI to component. All of my problems have disappeared.

In my case I suspect the bad cabling is the ultimate culprit. In addition I suspect that the PJ remembers or locks onto signals it once had. Messing with changing external source inputs while the pj is powered up makes it look for sync, finds it, but displays nothing.

I don't know what's wrong with your setup. Somewhere along the chain I think the combination of going 720p and 480p using the component switcher into the same pj input may be the problem.

One other thing, try this:

When you get this 480p syncing thing happen, leave all your sources alone, restart the PJ and see if the periodic 480p syncing message goes away.

How do I restart the PJ? Do you mean just turn it off then on? Is that bad for the bulb?

How do I restart the PJ? Do you mean just turn it off then on? Is that bad for the bulb?

Yes. This is just a check to see if what you're getting can be rectified by turning the PJ on and off, i.e. to confirm some of my observations. This is not a fix. If the problem goes away then you can then look at your cabling and switching equipment.

Yes. This is just a check to see if what you're getting can be rectified by turning the PJ on and off, i.e. to confirm some of my observations. This is not a fix. If the problem goes away then you can then look at your cabling and switching equipment.

Sorry I need to be more clear. Use your remote to turn the unit off. Don't do a hard power off.

Yes. This is just a check to see if what you're getting can be rectified by turning the PJ on and off, i.e. to confirm some of my observations. This is not a fix. If the problem goes away then you can then look at your cabling and switching equipment.
In order to protect your bulb, you might consider turning it off and then leaving it off for half an hour or so before turning it on again.

Sorry I need to be more clear. Use your remote to turn the unit off. Don't do a hard power off.
Not to get off topic here, but is there any reason to use a hard power off? I have just been turning it off with my remote and leaving it like that.

The only reason I can think of is if you're going to unplug the projector...

In order to protect your bulb, you might consider turning it off and then leaving it off for half an hour or so before turning it on again.

Absolutely! DO NOT turn the projector on immediately after turning it off, regardless of whether you're doing a hard or soft power off.

The reason some (InFocus for example) recommend a hard power off is that the bulb gets to cool down slowly, rather than the quicker, forced cooldown with the fans running. The slower change in temperature is supposedly better for the bulb. Personally, I just use the soft power off as things are still pretty warm after the fans turn off.

I haven't tested it, but isn't the MT700 supposed to NOT turn back on until it reaches a certain temp? Meaning it will ignore you until it's ready to turn on. Shoulda tested this right before I sent it in for a new lamp.

I haven't tested it, but isn't the MT700 supposed to NOT turn back on until it reaches a certain temp? Meaning it will ignore you until it's ready to turn on. Shoulda tested this right before I sent it in for a new lamp.
My understanding - which, admittedly, could be horribly flawed - is that the projector runs fans for a set amount of time to facilitate cooling (2 minutes?) and that the projector will not let you turn it on again during that time. I don't think, though, that it is based on the lamp reaching a certain measured "safe" temperature.

If I'm mistaken, hopefully somebody will correct me (gently ;) ).

ssj2,

It seems you STILL haven't even bothered to test a non-anamorphic source with Zoom. The zooming is different for non-anamorphic sources, trust me. And it's wrong no matter what it's designed for since nothing zooms to anything logical. Keep in mind that 16:9 mode is also a form of zoom for anamorphic sources. They both zoom 4:3 material to fit the width of your 16:9 screen, so it makes sense that anamorphic sources are the proper width in both modes.

I just tried the "zoom" function on a 2.35:1 disc. It didn't stretch horizontally, but did stretch vertically. However, the vertical stretch wasn't enough to fill the panel.

I played around with this yesterday. I believe the "zoom" is to be used with letterboxed (i.e. non-anamorphic) 1.85 and 2.35 images. It stretches the image vertically to return it to it's proper vertical size (while retaining the full width on the screen). Only a non-anamorphic 1.78 (i.e. 16:9) image will fill the screen when in zoom mode. An anamorphic 1.78 or 1.85 looses the top and bottom of the image.

Putting a non-anamorphic 2.35 DVD in (The Abyss); in "full" it looks squished vertically (i.e. too short), but in "zoom" it looks correct. This all seems to make sense.

EDIT: IMO, "zoom" is a bad choice of words, since normally the term zoom refers to an equal resizing in both the horizontal and vertical directions. In Toshiba-speak, "zoom" = stretch vertically while "4:3" = compress horizontally. These are the two ways the PJ returns a non-anamorphic image to correct proportions. "Theatre-wide", OTOH, is something that many of us would probably prefer didn't even appear, since it distorts the image from it's original source.