Drop cable and go with Satellite. My ancient Dish 6000 receiver integrates OTA HD channels with Satellite channels and outputs it all via one signal. The monthly price difference as Satellite is much cheaper paid for the equipment cost of the Dish 6000 long ago.

IMO, the only advantage to cable is that their HD DVR does not cost $1000 up front like satellite does.

Originally posted by ccdengr
For SD, going through the VCR is unlikely to make much difference in PQ. If you want to get some HD channels from your cable and some from an antenna, you're right, the VCR solution won't solve your problem. (The JVC DT-100 D-VHS HD VCR does have an ATSC tuner (broadcast only), but it's quite expensive.) At some point, buying a $2000 plasma and not spending $5/month for a cable HD STB if you want it seems inconsistent.

You make a good point about cost, but there are some side issues, like avoiding the STB for a clean look, and the fact that OTA I get additional stations from DC that Comcast would not provide. Also, I dont know how the STB from Comcast connects, because I dont have it. I will have to call and ask, because I plan on using the compnonent inputs for DVD. I was also hoping for 3:2 pulldown. Now i am thinking about the Pioneer again.

Darren

Streetprices.com is advertising the TH-37PX50U as being in stock - but at the order page, they give you the delivery in 2-3 weeks. Priced at $2669.99, which is what Abes of Main has it priced at. Might have to give them a call and post the results.

All right, Is the PQ of the 50u better than the 25u?
Anyone see any side by side comparison's?
Would you say it's minimal at best?

Originally posted by ccdengr
This has been covered many times on this thread already. New people, please try and search the thread before asking questions. I know the thread is really long; that's what searching is for.

To answer your question, I can see the local HD stations on TWC without doing anything special, and that's what the digital tuner is for (other than OTA with an antenna, of course.)

Thanks for the heads up ccdengr and yes i am new and i did start from the beginning of this post and i saw this question addressed nowhere. My mistake was I should not have addressed it in this post but i am learning and i am sorry if i ruffled your feathers. I will try and do better in the future. Also you may receive the TWC HD stations but they are coming through my set in 620i Analog and not 620p Digital. I have Standard Cable not Digital. You must have Digital Cable? I was told TWC does not pass the Digital signal unless you have a STB from them. You will not here anything more on this topic from me in this post and once again sorry for taking up space. If you do have just standard cable i sure would like to know how you are recieving HD signals? Take care.

I'm not sure why nobody has posted this yet, but the TH-42PX50U is available for order from Panasonic's website. It is showing in stock at the MSRP with no charge for ground shipping. There seems to be a lot of interest around this set, so I thought I'd put this tip out there for you guys.

By the way, I ordered the TH-42PD50U, and it should be delivered in a few hours here! :)

(Also, first post!)

Originally posted by DarrenK

By the way, you mentioned an outdoor antenna. Have you tried an indoor antenna, either powered or unpowered? I currently use a powered indoor antenna (that I got at Target) with tremendous success. It is hooked into my STB from Wal-Mart for my Tosh 56H80. I get all my local HD stations except PBS, plus the Washington DC stations, and PBS from Annapolis, so I pretty much get everything.

Darren

Yes, I bought a cheapo indoor antenna from WalMart to see if I could pickup OTA HD channels and the results were mixed. CBS, NBC, ABC came in okay with NBC (channel 4-1) having the strongest signal. Could not get FOX in digital. WB comes in and out, you could see the digital signal breaking up on the screen occasionally. No PBS. I am located just outside of NYC in northern NJ, about 5 miles from the Empire State Building. If weather cooperates I will get on the roof and install a outdoor antenna this weekend. Still don't know which one to get yet, probably something from Radio Shack. I notice there's hesitation (maybe 2 seconds of blank screen) when changing digital channels. Is this normal? A bit annoying.

While I am complaining, I am not too thrill with PD50U's remote. If I change the mode to DVD I can't even change the volumn of the TV unless I change it BACK to TV mode. Also, I have a Panasonic DVD player and I can't seem to get the TV remote to "chapter skip". It can "search" but it won't skip chapters.

Also, I read here some people have success in picking up cable HD stations on their PD50U? I have regular comcast cable, not digital and no STB. When I plug cable into the PD50U and have it scan it doesn't seem to pick up any HD cable channels. During the scan, it will go thru all the analog channels then it will scan for digital channels(HD, I guess?) and this part will take a LONG time to scan. How would I know if it picked up any HD channels?

42px50 available confirmed on panasonic website. Ready for free shipping in 1 business day for MSRP of $3499. The link is:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=93192&catGroupId=24973&modelNo=TH-42PX50U&surfModel=TH-42PX50U&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702

Quick, someone order it and post us a review ! :D

Finally a review! :)

http://*******************.com/plasmatvreviews/panasonic-th42pd50u-review.html

94/100 ... Cant wait till mine gets delivered :cool:


Interesting : they say the panel is '7th gen' ...

1) Only one HDMI input
2) No 3:2 Pulldown
3) No stretch/zoom modes on HD content

If the PX500U has at least two of those three features missing in the 50U, then it looks like I'll be waiting til June/July.

Question for anyone who might know:

Does the 7UY commercial series have 3:2 pulldown? A quick scan of the model on the Panasonic website didn't say one way or the other.

If so, would Panasonic dare to take it out of the 8UYs?

Wondering . . .

Oops! My bad. I had drilled into a specific model (50wd7uy) and it didn't say. But when I backed out to the series descriptions it was included. So it DOES have 3:2 pulldown.

Just read the review. Did the reviewer wrote it didn't have a QAM tuner? I thought the PD50U does have a QAM tuner.

Could someone clue me in to what the 3:2 pulldown is, and why it seems to be such a feature of significant interest among everyone? Also, why do you want stretch/zoom modes on HD? Arent they already in widescreen?

I've read some pretty good descriptions on various manufacturer websites, but the bottom line is that it makes movies run smoother/look better on fixed pixel displays than if if the panel didn't have it.

Fortunately, most DVD players produced today also have it. But some of have older players that don't have it, so we look for panels that do.

Yes, my understanding is that your DVD player likely has it built in.

Originally posted by w0mbat
...Interesting : they say the panel is '7th gen' ...

They also say the TH-42PD25U is 5th generation. (It's 6th.)

In addition, they mention the ATSC tuner as a new feature (it isn't), then say the 50U has no QAM tuner (which it does).

I've always enjoyed their reviews, but factual errors like this tend to cast doubt on the validity of their subjective evaluations, not that I've ever disagreed with any of the latter. They were the ones that first piqued my interest in Panasonic plasmas a couple of years ago and I certainly don't regret buying one.

In response to the question:
A lot of Japanese DVD player has 3:2 pull down feature for less $100 so I would not think it is a big deal if the TV internal scale does not do it.

As for scaling widescreen HD, some people does not like black bars on the top and bottom and would like the video to fill the entire screen.

Most 1.85:1 source will fill the entire screen, but 2:35:1 will not.

Originally posted by mister_two
Just read the review. Did the reviewer wrote it didn't have a QAM tuner? I thought the PD50U does have a QAM tuner. Yes it does. He was certainly misinformed about that. He also mentioned it was rated at 290W, when it says clearly on the back of the set 390W.

I was also surprised on how low his recommended settings were for the Contrast and Brightness. I find myself using well above the +10 mark on both lately, when using most input sources. I'm beginning to wonder if my set is particularly weak in that area :(.

Originally posted by yobob
...Oops! My bad. I had drilled into a specific model (50wd7uy) and it didn't say. But when I backed out to the series descriptions it was included. So it DOES have 3:2 pulldown.

For some reason, Panasonic has always downplayed 3:2 pulldown while other manufacturers make a big deal of it. Panasonic frequently leaves it off their feature list, leading to some weird reviews. I've seen some condemning the 42PD25U for not having it, while others praise how well it works!

Originally posted by empire_of_one
1) Only one HDMI input
2) No 3:2 Pulldown
3) No stretch/zoom modes on HD content


I don't think anyone is sure if the PX50 or the PD50 have 3:2 pulldown or not. Since it's integrated into most DVD players now anyway, it may be a moot point. It would take a video engineer and a specific experiment to be sure. Just because Panasonic doesn't explicitly say it does is no evidence it doesn't, as it often comes for free in the integrated chipsets that are used in TVs.

As for multiple HDMI inputs and zoom modes on HD, does any plasma have these?
I would assume that as HDMI becomes more common, you'll see HDMI switchers that will allow multiple HDMI sources to feed into one monitor, much as you see component switching in A/V receivers today.

ccdengr, it's one of those features that a company would state if it had in its sets. Also, the Pioneers have 2 hdmi inputs, and a few zoom modes on HD. However, I hardly think that justifies a 2 thousand+ dollar premium (px50u vs 4350).

Wassim, you took the words right outta my mouth ! The price difference between the Panny 50" PX50 and the Pio PD5050 is quite large for those small feature differences. Large enough for me that I can't really justify buying the Pio over the Panny since there really isn't any difference in PQ.

BTW, thanks to all of you for answering my questions. I am sure now that the pulldown will in no way really affect my decision (unless the prices are the same). As for the zoom mode, its really of no consequence at all to me either. Still, thanks for the quick response, this is a great community!

Originally posted by catslick
Also you may receive the TWC HD stations but they are coming through my set in 620i Analog and not 620p Digital. I have Standard Cable not Digital. You must have Digital Cable? I was told TWC does not pass the Digital signal unless you have a STB from them.

Sorry if I sounded miffed. There's a lot of understandable confusion on this, and I'm not going to be able to clear it up totally, but here goes.

Some cable companies put HD signals out without encryption (sometimes called "clear QAM") If they do, then with basic cable, you may be able to see HD channels after doing a digital scan on your PD50. HD channels show up as two numbers with a hyphen between them in the channel list, and they often have names like the local station call letters with a "-HD" or a "-DT" at the end.

If you don't see anything like that, then your cable company isn't sending out a compatible signal (they're encrypting it or otherwise have messed something up, cabling doesn't support it, etc) and your only ways to get HD are to put up an antenna and get it over the air (OTA) or to buy it from your cable company or from satellite.

Unfortunately, asking the cable company probably won't get you a straight answer, since they want to sell you extra services and their tech support probably doesn't know the ins and outs of how HD works anyway. You just have to try it and hope you get lucky.

I do have both Roadrunner and digital cable, and those things may help, but I have heard reports that people with basic cable and nothing special otherwise can receive cable HD.

Having seen how much better HD is than normal analog video on the PD50, I'd certainly pay a few extra bucks a month to get HD.

p.s. It's "480i" (regular TV), "480p" (digital SD or DVD), "720p", and "1080i" (two flavors of HD)

Originally posted by swflbatth
Could someone clue me in to what the 3:2 pulldown is, and why it seems to be such a feature of significant interest among everyone? Also, why do you want stretch/zoom modes on HD? Arent they already in widescreen?

swflbatth, i am not sure on the 3:2 pulldown and i would like to know as well. I do know that all HD signals are not all widescreen and that HD can come in 4:3 aspect. Also there are 15 differrent aspect ratios in widescreen. Some will not fit your entire screen and will have black bars on the top and bottom. So being able to zoom HD would help if you do not like black bars on your screen. Hope this helps.

If it makes anyone happy, or unhappy, 3:2 pulldown is NOT an option listed in the PX50-series PDF user manual.
*IF you assume that the user would have the option to enable/disable 3:2 if it was provided, then it is likely not provided----and if not available on the PX50, then likely not available on the PD50.

But you never know, unless you specifically test for it.....

Keith

Originally posted by mister_two
Just read the review. Did the reviewer wrote it didn't have a QAM tuner? I thought the PD50U does have a QAM tuner.

It does.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ccdengr
[B]Sorry if I sounded miffed. There's a lot of understandable confusion on this, and I'm not going to be able to clear it up totally, but here goes.

Thank you sir you are a big help!!!

http://www.*******************.com/plasmatvreviews/panasonic-th42pd50u-review.html
Review of the pd50u

I was at Best Buy today and they have the 50PX50U on their computer for sale less than list price (I wish I could say, sorry due to forum rules). Lets just say fairly well below, but still above $1k above Ecost.com.

The computer says they will arrive 2nd week of May. The service drone was amazed how low the price was (compared to last years model).

Originally posted by pezdoctor
If it makes anyone happy, or unhappy, 3:2 pulldown is NOT an option listed in the PX50-series PDF user manual.
*IF you assume that the user would have the option to enable/disable 3:2 if it was provided, then it is likely not provided----and if not available on the PX50, then likely not available on the PD50.

But you never know, unless you specifically test for it.....

Keith

Just to keep the confusion going :rolleyes: , 3:2 pulldown detection is integrated into many deinterlacing chips and disabling it is not always a user option. Since Panasonic seems to be deliberately vague on this, I have no idea whether they have it in all their sets or not (although they do seem to have it in some of them).

As you say, you'd have to test for it. But then, if it's that hard to tell, maybe it it isn't as important as it seems.

Originally posted by wassim17
ccdengr, [3:2 pulldown is] one of those features that a company would state if it had in its sets.

I honestly don't think that's necessarily true. I'm an electrical engineer and I'm not even certain when you might need it :-), so I doubt that the mass market is going to care. As an example, the Zenith P42W46X has 3:2 pulldown integrated into its DCDi chip, but no Zenith spec sheet says that. No Panasonic spec sheet says the PD50 has a QAM tuner either, but it does have one.

Originally posted by swflbatth
...Also, why do you want stretch/zoom modes on HD? Arent they already in widescreen? My main concern would be for preventing burn-in, since many programs are still not HD and many DTV stations broadcast the upconverted SD in 4:3 format only. We have only one station locally that uses a sub-channel for a stretched version of the SD program. If more did this, it would be a moot point of course. But then it seams burn-in may not be such an issue any more with these newer sets. Still the warnings given in the Panasonic manual tend to indicate otherwise. :confused:

"Most 1.85:1 source will fill the entire screen, but 2:35:1 will not."

I think it's 1.78 that is 16:9, 1.85 and 2.35 will be letterboxed if not zoomed

Originally posted by swflbatth
Could someone clue me in to what the 3:2 pulldown is, and why it seems to be such a feature of significant interest among everyone? Also, why do you want stretch/zoom modes on HD? Arent they already in widescreen?

The 3:2 pulldown for film-based DVDs will allow you to feed the TV a 480i signal from the DVD player and allow the TV to do the processing/de-interlacing. My DVD player does have 3:2 and progressive out, but it's not the best quality de-interlacer, so I occasionally see de-interlacing artifacts or instances where a flag error causes shudder in the picture, etc. By itself it's not a big deal, for the $500 difference between a PX50U and a PX500U I could buy an upscaling DVD player instead. But taken with the other features I mentioned, it would be worth waiting for and I wouldn't have to upgrade my DVD player.

The stretch/zoom modes are important because not all HD content is 16:9. Some channels add black bars on the sides of 4:3, or those horrible logos on the sides that ESPN-HD adds, which could be a burn-in nightmare. I want the option to stretch 4:3 HD to prevent any potential burn-in.

Originally posted by Hagendos
"Most 1.85:1 source will fill the entire screen, but 2:35:1 will not."

I think it's 1.78 that is 16:9, 1.85 and 2.35 will be letterboxed if not zoomed

Technically, you're right, but 1.85 fills most 16:9 screens due to overscan.

Originally posted by ccdengr
I don't think anyone is sure if the PX50 or the PD50 have 3:2 pulldown or not. Since it's integrated into most DVD players now anyway, it may be a moot point. It would take a video engineer and a specific experiment to be sure. Just because Panasonic doesn't explicitly say it does is no evidence it doesn't, as it often comes for free in the integrated chipsets that are used in TVs.

As for multiple HDMI inputs and zoom modes on HD, does any plasma have these?
I would assume that as HDMI becomes more common, you'll see HDMI switchers that will allow multiple HDMI sources to feed into one monitor, much as you see component switching in A/V receivers today.

So maybe they do have 3:2 pulldown? Doesn't the Avia disc have a feature for testing 3:2 pulldown? I'm sure there are some PD50U owners out there with Avia who could test it real quick and then we'd know for sure. If the PD has it then surely the PX will too, though the opposite won't necessarily be the case.

I would like to have 2 HDMIs so I can switch between an STB and an upscaling DVD player or upcoming Blu-Ray player without having to re-calibrate my settings for each one. From what I understand the Panasonic picture settings are tied to the picture mode, not the individual inputs, but I'd like to be able to set and leave each HDMI device on its own picture mode calibrated specifically for that device. I know I can get around it by changing the pic mode when I switch between STB and DVD, but I'm lazy and I'd rather have the panel do it automatically when I switch inputs.

Someone else mentioned the Pio for multiple HDMI inputs and HD stretch/zoom modes. The Hitachi 55" also has 2 HDMI inputs and stretch/zoom on HD. I wouldn't pay another $2000+ for the Pio for these features, but I'd pay another $500 and wait a couple months for the PX500U if it had these features. And the Hitachi has dropped in price heavily. If I didn't believe the Panasonic would have better PQ, and if I could find a Hitachi somewhere around here, I'd probably already have one.

Originally posted by Carey P
Yes it does. He was certainly misinformed about that. He also mentioned it was rated at 290W, when it says clearly on the back of the set 390W.


he just copied it from the Panny site. They got it wrong too.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=89237&catGroupId=24973&displayTab=S&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702&surfModel=TH-42PD50U&surfCategory=Plasma%20TVs

I had been very seriously considering the TH-42PX50U, but having looked at the manual, I'm now looking at the PT-43LCX64, which is a 3-mirror LCD projection that 2 ATSC/NTSC tuners.

I prefer the ability to have PIP.

The set's specifications look very similar to the Sony GrandWega however the Sony only has 1 ATSC input and 1 NTSC input.

What should be the best way to connect the 42pa50 to a pc for watching dvix etc? S-video (via tv-out on videocard), or vga to scart adapter (if this is possible)?

Which way will give best picture q.?

Originally posted by Bengbeng
What should be the best way to connect the 42pa50 to a pc for watching dvix etc? S-video (via tv-out on videocard), or vga to scart adapter (if this is possible)?

Which way will give best picture q.?

Hard to tell. There are not a lot of connections on this set.
It has 1-HDMI, 2-component connections, 2-S Video with audio and 1-composite input with audio.

Panasonic plasma MSRPs are confirmed:

TH-42PD50U: $2,499.95
TH-37PX50U: $2,999.95
TH-42PX50U: $3,499.95
TH-50PX50U: $4,999.95

Originally posted by w0mbat
he just copied it from the Panny site. They got it wrong too.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=89237&catGroupId=24973&displayTab=S&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702&surfModel=TH-42PD50U&surfCategory=Plasma%20TVs Wonder why he didn't see the 8th generation panel and QAM tuner spec. It's interesting though that Panasonic can't even get their own specs right. Makes you wonder if the 8th generation statement is even true. At least we know it has QAM...:D

Originally posted by swflbatth
I just saw the PD50U today and I must say I was not impressed :( . The jaggies drove me nuts. I was not 8' away to begin with, was within 5 feet. I backed up and still couldnt get over the fuzzy text. I play games on the television and also hook my PC up from time to time, so I need a fairly sharp picture. Other sets that were HD looked so much smoother, at least to me. With all the rave about this ED set, I was expecting more. I just hope that the PX50 does alot better job at providing a crisp picture or else I don't think I would spend the money. Wow! Hope you don't catch too much flame from other PD50U owner's. I have no problem seeing the minutest detail on text from more than 10ft away and I never see jaggies (I thought that was thing of the past). Must not have been hooked up through Component or HDMI.

Anyway, if you're planning to use it within 5 to 8ft, I would certainly go for an HD (or quazi HD) model and you'll need the computer inputs which this one doesn't have. Good luck.

Originally posted by swflbatth
With all the rave about this ED set, I was expecting more.

Obviously you should buy what looks the best to you for the amount you are willing to pay. Seems like there are three possibilities:

1) You're unusually discriminating about PQ.

2) The PD50 you saw was messed up in some way (bad feed, defective, etc.)

3) Those of us who own the PD50 and think the PQ is excellent are fooling ourselves.

I'm personally going with 1 or 2.

BTW, every TV picture is ultimately made up out of little dots, and if you stand close enough, you'll always be able to see them. The only question is how close :-)

Well, I just took the time to look through the PX50 manual. Found some interesting tidbits. First of all, what is the real resolution of this set. The manual says that 1080i AND 720p signals will be "reformatted" to fit on your display. Does seems to suggest that the true resolution is 480p? Or would it be 768p? Perhaps the PD version is closer to the PX than I thought...

Another interesting note is that under 'Troubleshooting" the last item mentioned is not to worry about a "whirring sound" as it is only the fan. Am I correct in recalling that prior versions did not have a fan, and were extremely quiet?

The unit does have two Component inputs, which is a plus. Apparently it also has a built in program guide as well for OTA and Satellite programming. Apparently this feature does not work with cable.

Darren

I have an ED set (soon to switch to the PX50x, and while in theory ED should look much worse than HD, it really doesn't. I would assume that the unit you observed was not set correctly, or the feed to it was not great. The digital feeds in stores are usually terrrible. At a local BB, every flesh tone on one wall was blue, while it was "better" on anther wall. It was the same feed, but obviously something was affecting it. Anytime you send the same feed to multiple displays you will get noise. From the positive reviews in this forum, and keep in mind the users here are not your average viewer, but much more discriminating ones due to their interest, I would assume that the unit you saw is the problem, and not the entire line.

Originally posted by swflbatth
I just saw the PD50U today and I must say I was not impressed :( . The jaggies drove me nuts. I was not 8' away to begin with, was within 5 feet. I backed up and still couldnt get over the fuzzy text. I play games on the television and also hook my PC up from time to time, so I need a fairly sharp picture. Other sets that were HD looked so much smoother, at least to me. With all the rave about this ED set, I was expecting more. I just hope that the PX50 does alot better job at providing a crisp picture or else I don't think I would spend the money.

Wow! I have the pd50u and I think its fabulous. I suggest that you take a second look before deciding. Then if you still do not like it, you will know its not a bogus set-up or unit.

EDIT: second look means go somewhere different

Originally posted by jrock65
Panasonic plasma MSRPs are confirmed:

TH-42PD50U: $2,499.95
TH-37PX50U: $2,999.95
TH-42PX50U: $3,499.95
TH-50PX50U: $4,999.95

Tweeter confirmed the price on the 50 incher today....they are going MSRP (or so they tell me) when they get it in.

Originally posted by jrock65
Panasonic plasma MSRPs are confirmed:

TH-42PD50U: $2,499.95
TH-37PX50U: $2,999.95
TH-42PX50U: $3,499.95
TH-50PX50U: $4,999.95

I have seen the promised land!!!

Originally posted by DarrenK
Well, I just took the time to look through the PX50 manual. Found some interesting tidbits. First of all, what is the real resolution of this set. The manual says that 1080i AND 720p signals will be "reformatted" to fit on your display. Does seems to suggest that the true resolution is 480p? Or would it be 768p? Perhaps the PD version is closer to the PX than I thought...

Another interesting note is that under 'Troubleshooting" the last item mentioned is not to worry about a "whirring sound" as it is only the fan. Am I correct in recalling that prior versions did not have a fan, and were extremely quiet?

The unit does have two Component inputs, which is a plus. Apparently it also has a built in program guide as well for OTA and Satellite programming. Apparently this feature does not work with cable.

Darren

The 42PX50U is 1024x768. Presumably the 50PX50U will be 1366x768, just like the 50PX25U. Neither matches 1080i or 720p pixel-for-pixel so the signal must be scaled to those resolutions. They're definitely not 480p, that would make them ED sets.

Interesting about the fan, the PD50U's don't have fans. I guess driving all those extra pixels for HD creates more heat. I hope it's not loud.

Just to clear something up. There are a lot of people making a big deal about the PD50 and PX50 not having every feature on the planet. I am going to make a couple of bold statements:

1) As someone else wrote, most people who spend > $2K on a plasma TV are not just going to be watching over the air programs.
2) As for 3:2 pull-down. Most people are not going to be feeding their > $2K plasma TV a 480i signal.

So, if you are like most people you will own a progressive scan DVD player and will probably have a STB. What this means:
1) 3:2 pull-down detection is useless
2) Not having zoom capability for HD signals is not an issue (every HD STB from cable to satellite I have ever seen has it's own zoom modes).

I have two quick observations:

(1) Wow. Panasonic is deadly serious about expanding the market for plasmas and expanding its market share.

(2) Can we please now have a permanent ban on any post that wrongly suggests plasmas are not getting cheaper?

Originally posted by Foos-Man
Not having zoom capability for HD signals is not an issue (every HD STB from cable to satellite I have ever seen has it's own zoom modes). Not with the Comcast Motorola 6412 Dual DVR box. :(

Who is going to try out the HDMI connector with a PC DVI video card connected via a DVI-HDMI cable to get the best quality connection between a PC and this plasma as this would be a cool way to connect a media center PC.

I noticed the online manual suggests you shouldn't use this connection with a PC (Any technical explanation such as the HDCP prevents this or is this to cut down on support issues as it may or may not work).

Anybody in a position to try this out?

Th-42px50u
Ships on or about 06/07/2005
Thats what panasonics said when ordering from there site!

Does anyone know if these will have subpixel control the px50u. or is it just the 500u's

Originally posted by Sheldon186
Th-42px50u
Ships on or about 06/07/2005
Thats what panasonics said when ordering from there site!

Sadly, Panasonic is using the same "on or about 6/7/05 " for another one of its products, the SA-XR50 receiver, which earlier was posted by Panasonic as being available as early as April 8th. I am still waiting for that as well as the PX that Panasonic had posted as available April 25th.

My marketing and sales background leads me to believe that Panasonic has to deal with mounting inventories of their earlier versions. It is no strain on the logical processes to understand how countless distributors who have these in stock would be upset. I also noticed on Panasonic's own web site a newly advertised "hot deal" sticker on their TH-42PX25U/P, probably reflecting their own concerns about inventory. Trying to shore up prices by rolling back release of new products is understandable, but frustrating to say the least.

I would think it will be mid summer before these models are widely available. As far as the new 37" and the 50" consumer models go, that could be late summer, given that they are not, to my knowledge, anywhere to be found on Panasonic's site. I would guess the commercial units would be early to mid fall.

The waiting game goes on for us all.:(

Originally posted by Foos-Man

1) As someone else wrote, most people who spend > $2K on a plasma TV are not just going to be watching over the air programs.
2) As for 3:2 pull-down. Most people are not going to be feeding their > $2K plasma TV a 480i signal.

So, if you are like most people you will own a progressive scan DVD player and will probably have a STB. What this means:
1) 3:2 pull-down detection is useless
2) Not having zoom capability for HD signals is not an issue (every HD STB from cable to satellite I have ever seen has it's own zoom modes).

1) I have a progressive-scan DVD player, but the de-interlacer is not that great. I see de-interlacing artifacts and problems with 3:2 flags not getting read properly. Having 3:2 pulldown in the TV is not useless for me, as it would save me from having to upgrade my DVD player.

2) My parents have the Comcast HD STB (don't know the exact model number) and it has no stretch/zoom modes. I'll be using an HD DirecTivo and I have no idea if it has stretch/zoom on HD. But I have more leeway in choosing a TV than I do an STB (there are no HD DVRs that can compete with the Tivo IMO) so if the DirecTivo doesn't have that feature, the TV had better have it. Also, the STB will be replaced eventually with whatever DirecTV comes up with for their new DVR, and no one has any idea what features that will have. So I'm not counting on doing stretch/zoom from the STB.

Today I visited one of our local CC's and finally was able to view the new panny 50U. My spouse and I spent about 45 minutes viewing the various plasma displays which included both HD and ED models. I have to tell you that I am extremely critical with overall picture quality , especially when spending the kind of money these sets retail for. We were both floored with the picture quality of the 50U! Its was just amazing. We viewed digital feeds, HD feeds, Dvd and yes SD. I even brought a Dvd or two and was able to view them on the 50U. The blacks were great with no noticeable loss of details in dark scenes. No jaggies, or clayfacing at all. In fact the 50U was hanging next to a $7000 plasma display that will remain unnamed and looked ever bit as good. As far as the screen door effect we measured with a tape measure that we could not observe it after being more than three feet from the screen, and that was with reading glasses on lol!. The set we viewed seemed very well adusted no overally rich colors or brightness actually just right, while viewing the TV I specifically looked for the green push I have heard mentioned and didnt see it at all. It appears that CC is willing to really bargain to. Within about 40 seconds of discussing price he lowered the sale price another 100 dollars. I then decieded to see if they will bargain on the Service contract. and yes they will. I told him the bottom line was important not the separate item prices. They also said they are selling alot of 50U's and should have the new px models in shortly.

In regards to the 3:2 Pulldown, what does Panasonic do with their consumer line? I notice that in the industrial line, Panasonic uses their own Mach Digital Contour Enhancer. I presume this is their own version on something very similar to 3:2 Pulldown. Is this technology being used by Panasonic in their latest line of consumer displays?

The higher the quality of feed that you are supplying your display with; the less 3:2 Pulldown will need to be used by your internal drive system from you panel. With progressive scan dvd players, hd-dvd's, digital cable and high def cable, you eventually will not need 3:2 pulldown.

I think Panasonic has to have something in their current and previous panels to help offset 480i programming. It may be the Mach Digital Contour Enhancer that is in the industrial line or it could be some other technology. Because time and time again I see Panasonics in the stores and they consistently one of the top plasmas I see.

Jeff

Originally posted by Casey Jones
In fact the 50U was hanging next to a $7000 plasma display that will remain unnamed and looked ever bit as good. As far as the screen door effect we measured with a tape measure that we could not observe it after being more than three feet from the screen, and that was with reading glasses on lol!.

The TH-42PD50U is indeed has a great PQ, black levels and the like, no doubt about it; but the screen door effect does show at up to about 7 to 8 feet; it can be better detected if it is displayed next to a Pioneer HD or similar. My assumption is that over time and useage at home, the SDE is assimulated by the brain and becomes a non-issue.

Just need to add my 2-cents about PIP. I can't believe that so many people in this thread don't seem to care about PIP - or are too willing to discount it as non-essential.

Last night, on my old TV (still deciding what plasma to get), I had to watch the latest Bridget Jones movie with my wife. Yippee! But with PIP, I was able to keep an eye on the NFL draft in a small box in the lower right corner, and flip over to it whenever the teams I cared about were picking.

When I finally choose a plasma, I want one with the best display to *wow* everyone that comes over, and this forum has convinced me that's the panny. But I'll be so dissapointed if I have to give up PIP.

Anybody have an educated guess as to whether or not the 42PX500U will have PIP? I'm pretty sure it will have a PC-slot for photo viewing which I don't care about, but what about PIP? If no PIP, then I may have to go over to the dark side and consider the Pioneer...

Any educated guess about the 42PX500U having PIP or not?

Well all I can tell you is what we saw. Maybe we are the lucky ones not noticing the SDE. And yes, it was displayed next to hd sets that one included.

Originally posted by Gooch74
In regards to the 3:2 Pulldown, what does Panasonic do with their consumer line? I notice that in the industrial line, Panasonic uses their own Mach Digital Contour Enhancer. I presume this is their own version on something very similar to 3:2 Pulldown. Is this technology being used by Panasonic in their latest line of consumer displays?


I believe the Mach enhancer is an edge enhancement techique and doesn't have anything directly to do with 3:2 pulldown (which Panasonic has called "Progressive Cinema Scan" at times for earlier models.)

At the moment, it's unknown if the current generation Panasonic consumer plasmas have 3:2 pulldown. There's some debate about whether the last generation (PD25) had it. The current generation does have the Mach enhancer, for what that's worth.

If you have a progressive DVD player in progressive mode, it's doing the 3:2 pulldown and the TV isn't, so it doesn't matter.

If you want to spend a lot of time researching DVD players and learn about all the ways that DVDs can be encoded wrong and mess up your DVD player, head to http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

Originally posted by megaptera
When I finally choose a plasma, I want one with the best display to *wow* everyone that comes over, and this forum has convinced me that's the panny. But I'll be so dissapointed if I have to give up PIP.


If you're going to watch something with PIP during a movie, I don't think I'd want to come over to watch no matter how great your TV is. :)

It's hard to say if the PX500 will have PIP or not. The only stated differences between the PX50 and the PX500 are the program guide, PC and SD card slot, and PC input. That's basically the feature set from the PD25, and it had PIP, so there's a fair chance the PX500 will. It all depends on how important PIP is in Panasonic's estimation.

Originally posted by jaimslaw
The TH-42PD50U is indeed has a great PQ, black levels and the like, no doubt about it; but the screen door effect does show at up to about 7 to 8 feet; it can be better detected if it is displayed next to a Pioneer HD or similar. My assumption is that over time and useage at home, the SDE is assimulated by the brain and becomes a non-issue.

SDE is a strange beast indeed. I have the pd50u and I am amazed at how much the picture settings can effect SDE. It makes sense that one can effect the other, but in my opinion the range is very wide. I have not nailed it down yet, but for me SDE can sometimes be visible at about 7 feet and at others it starts at closer to 5.5/6.0 feet. I doubt I would have noticed this if it were not for me getting on the floor and watching TV with my son. My son's shows are not always entertaining so I find my self analyzing more than watching :cool:

One note... If you have to place it next to another plasma to see the SDE then I would not worry about it when you have the unit at home :)

Originally posted by jspirate
SDE is a strange beast indeed. I have the pd50u and I am amazed at how much the picture settings can effect SDE. It makes sense that one can effect the other, but in my opinion the range is very wide. I have not nailed it down yet, but for me SDE can sometimes be visible at about 7 feet and at others it starts at closer to 5.5/6.0 feet. I doubt I would have noticed this if it were not for me getting on the floor and watching TV with my son. My son's shows are not always entertaining so I find my self analyzing more than watching

I wasn't able to tinker with any of the PD50's to see if the SDE will be enhanced by, say, a higher contrast setting. I'm curious (and clueless): can the SDE be "softened" with adjusted TV settings?

Originally posted by jaimslaw
I wasn't able to tinker with any of the PD50's to see if the SDE will be enhanced by, say, a higher contrast setting. I'm curious (and clueless): can the SDE be "softened" with adjusted TV settings?

Well, its very strange. I can not watch a show and adjust and one setting to make SDE less or more visible, but under certain settings (and maybe content) I do see it at different distances.

I find it very bamboozling to say the least :)

Originally posted by megaptera
Just need to add my 2-cents about PIP. I can't believe that so many people in this thread don't seem to care about PIP - or are too willing to discount it as non-essential.

Last night, on my old TV (still deciding what plasma to get), I had to watch the latest Bridget Jones movie with my wife. Yippee! But with PIP, I was able to keep an eye on the NFL draft in a small box in the lower right corner, and flip over to it whenever the teams I cared about were picking.

When I finally choose a plasma, I want one with the best display to *wow* everyone that comes over, and this forum has convinced me that's the panny. But I'll be so dissapointed if I have to give up PIP.

Anybody have an educated guess as to whether or not the 42PX500U will have PIP? I'm pretty sure it will have a PC-slot for photo viewing which I don't care about, but what about PIP? If no PIP, then I may have to go over to the dark side and consider the Pioneer...

Any educated guess about the 42PX500U having PIP or not?

If you check out the PIP thread, you'll find most people don't really use it. I have Tivo and for me that eliminates any need for PIP. As long as I don't have to watch two live events at the same time, right as they're happening, there's no use for PIP. But I'm much more of a movie watcher than a sports watcher, and I understand some people's need to watch two football games or baseball games simultaneously. I can almost do that with my Tivo by switching back and forth between two games and rewinding to see what I might have missed while I was on the other game, but of course I'm not seeing it "live" that way. I usually only do that so that I have something to do during the commercials on the other game anyway. Like any good Tivo user, commercials have become intolerable for me.

Originally posted by ccdengr
I believe the Mach enhancer is an edge enhancement techique and doesn't have anything directly to do with 3:2 pulldown (which Panasonic has called "Progressive Cinema Scan" at times for earlier models.)

At the moment, it's unknown if the current generation Panasonic consumer plasmas have 3:2 pulldown. There's some debate about whether the last generation (PD25) had it. The current generation does have the Mach enhancer, for what that's worth.

If you have a progressive DVD player in progressive mode, it's doing the 3:2 pulldown and the TV isn't, so it doesn't matter.

If you want to spend a lot of time researching DVD players and learn about all the ways that DVDs can be encoded wrong and mess up your DVD player, head to http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

The comb filtering demonstrated at the bottom of the article is exactly what I've seen on my DVD player. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does it can be distracting. Of course, there's no guarantee that any 3:2 pulldown in the TV would do a better job than my player, but when I tried it with a Sony RPTV, the TVs processing eliminated those comb filtering artifacts.

Originally posted by megaptera
... I can't believe that so many people in this thread don't seem to care about PIP - or are too willing to discount it as non-essential...

conversely, i can't believe so many people make such a fuss about needing/wanting it. when i got my new DVR cable box with PIP, i was very eager to try it out, finally happy to have the ability to use it. that lasted all of 30 minutes or so.

same thing with my wife. when she came home later that night, and found out we had it, she was all gung-ho to give it a whirl too, and made no secret of her delight in finally being able to use it. i've never seen her use it since that night.

in the end, i found that PIP really detracts from the television watching experience. IMO you really can't appreciate what you're watching if your attention is continually split to that degree.

what you end up with, is one show that you can't see all of and that you're really not paying that much attention to, because you're just so determined not to miss anything important in the other show that you must have it onscreen.

on the other hand, you have a tiny picture that really defeats the purpose of you getting a big tv to begin with. not to mention the fact that you can't hear a thing that's happening on that show either! which further forces you to give it more of your attention so you really don't miss anything good, which in the end, makes you miss even more of the "main" show that you're supposed to be watching.

not worth it, IMO. further reinforced (for me anyway) by the fact that since that first magical day that PIP finally entered our lives, it's been nowhere to be seen ... and, might i add, no missed at all, despite both of our initial excitement at its arrival.

... man i really gotta work on keeping my .02c to an actual .02c length! lol :rolleyes: :p :D

Originally posted by empire_of_one
The comb filtering demonstrated at the bottom of the article is exactly what I've seen on my DVD player. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does it can be distracting. Of course, there's no guarantee that any 3:2 pulldown in the TV would do a better job than my player, but when I tried it with a Sony RPTV, the TVs processing eliminated those comb filtering artifacts.

We were watching the platinum edition of BAMBI last night on the PD50 and I noticed comb artifacts on the trailer for BAMBI 2. (The feature itself was fine. I was using a Panasonic ES10 DVD recorder set to progressive auto1 for playback.) I switched the ES10 to interlaced and the artifacts "disappeared" but I wouldn't say that means the PD50 has 3:2 pulldown, because as I understand it, comb artifacts are usually a symptom of MPEG encoding errors and can be worse than simple pulldown artifacts.

If you really want to get 3:2 pulldown that works in the pathological error cases, the safest thing would be to buy a Secrets-recommended DVD player, although many of the error cases (e.g., bad MPEG flags) don't apply to TVs since they don't see the raw MPEG stream.

Sure I use PIP, but not when watching movies or any other serious viewing.

Let's say I'm watching the news (everything I watch is through TIVO), and I happen to be recording something else on my DVD recorder. The PIP is the perfect thing to turn on when you think the recording is near it's end. Sure I can flip back and forth between the alternating inputs, but that's much more of a pain than simply keeping the small window in the lower right corner for a couple minutes.

I'm not sure it would be a deal breaker for me, but it is a nice convenience and I do use it on occasion.

cheers

shane

Originally posted by Foos-Man
…2) Not having zoom capability for HD signals is not an issue (every HD STB from cable to satellite I have ever seen has it's own zoom modes).

Originally posted by Carey P
Not with the Comcast Motorola 6412 Dual DVR box. :(

Foos-man said zoom, but I speculate meant stretch with respect to the Comcast provided Motorola 6412 Dual DVR box. Page 5 of Comcast’s 6412 manual Using Your Built-in Digital Video Recorder indicates:

“Step 4: Set 4:3 Override
This setting provides the ability to specify how 4:3 standard definition programs are displayed on your TV. The choices are OFF, 480i, 480p, or stretch If you have a widescreen TV and select the streatch setting, 4:3 programs will automatically be stretched to a widescreen 16:9 aspect ratio and display video in the format you specified in step 3…”

Originally posted by HDidiot
Foos-man said zoom, but I speculate meant stretch with respect to the Comcast provided Motorola 6412 Dual DVR box. Page 5 of Comcast’s 6412 manual Using Your Built-in Digital Video Recorder indicates:

“Step 4: Set 4:3 Override
This setting provides the ability to specify how 4:3 standard definition programs are displayed on your TV. The choices are OFF, 480i, 480p, or stretch If you have a widescreen TV and select the streatch setting, 4:3 programs will automatically be stretched to a widescreen 16:9 aspect ratio and display video in the format you specified in step 3…”

According to that description, the stretch only works on SD 4:3 material. No help for 4:3 HD material, or signals where the station has added sidebars to a 4:3 picture to make it 16:9.

Originally posted by empire_of_one
According to that description, the stretch only works on SD 4:3 material. No help for 4:3 HD material, or signals where the station has added sidebars to a 4:3 picture to make it 16:9.

Empire of one
I agree with you in part.

One of the frequently cited missing functions on Panny “PX” HD models issued to date is that they DON’T have stretch modes. Many factors should be weighed in selecting a plasma. To some that missing function alone sells Pioneers. [While to others, Panny's stellar blacks for plasmas in its price range vs mediocre Pioneer blacks, sell Pannys.]

One of the frequently cited complaints about otherwise fantastic HD pictures is of sidebars that the user cannot nuke on certain plasmas.

Within the realm of those well established facts I was merely indicating capabilities of the 6412 which could have appeared to be otherwise understated.

Thanks for bringing up that it needed clarification.

Originally posted by HDidiot
One of the frequently cited missing functions on Panny “PX” HD models issued to date is that they [B]DON’T have stretch modes.

To clarify a bit more, Pannys don't have zoom/stretch modes on HD inputs. The Pioneers do, it's said (I can't prove it from the product brochures and haven't downloaded the manuals, but I have no reason to doubt it.)

The Panny can zoom/stretch any 480i or 480p signal, just not on HD that has explicitly embedded letter/pillarboxes. One hopes that the need to stretch HD will be lessened once all or most TV content is 16:9.

It *is* irritating when NBC-HD shows an HD rerun in SD that's both letterboxed and pillarboxed and sits in the middle of the screen in a sea of black on all four sides and can't be zoomed; I just sigh and switch to their SD channel when this happens.

What if your Comcast Moto STB suddenly stopped working? Do they offer a better choice? I do agree that it's a bit strange that the PD50U/PX50U don't have a zoom/stretch for HD signals. It seems like Panasonic is designing for the future and leaving off legacy features.

My main concern is whether the PX500U will have HD stretch/zoom modes. Unless the Pios come WAY down in price, I'm almost certainly going with a Panny. My only decision is whether to get the PX50U or wait for the 500U. Based on the known added features of the 500U, it's not worth the wait for me at this point, since I won't be using the PC input, Memory Card, etc. But if I knew the 500U was going to have extra HDMI inputs or stretch/zoom for HD, I might wait for it. All indications though are that the 500U won't have those features, so I guess I'll work around it. I know I can set the STB output to 480p during a 4:3 program, then I'll be able to use the SD stretch/zoom modes. It's just a shame to have to down-res HD for that.

Originally posted by Foos-Man
I do agree that it's a bit strange that the PD50U/PX50U don't have a zoom/stretch for HD signals. It seems like Panasonic is designing for the future and leaving off legacy features.

Panasonic has never supported zoom/stretch for HD as far as I know. I assume it's harder to implement the scaling for HD inputs (higher bandwidth) -- it's pretty typical for other manufacturers to have this limitation as well.

If you want to watch 4:3 HD, you could always just watch it in 4:3. I don't think a little pillarboxing is going to constitute a big burn-in risk. Of course, it'd depend on how much 4:3 you're going to be watching.

All this discussion about stretch modes is a bit confusing to me. I have the pd50u and I use the Motorola 6412 STB. For the most part, there are a couple channels that are in 4:3 mode for any noticeable viewing time. ESPN HD and CBS HD seem to periodically have some content that is not HD or its in 4:3 mode. I wouldn't mind stretching the ESPN HD content, but I always have the option of viewing the equivalent analogue channel. The amount of non-HD content on ESPN is fairly slim (with respect to my viewing habits). The pd50u does fairly well displaying the analogue equivalent and I think the amount on HD content is improving everyday.

In short, I don't really feel like I need the stretch modes now and the opportunity for use in the future seems to be diminishing. On the flip side, I guess we really don't know what channels will be offered going forward and what their roll-out will require from a viewing standpoint. I guess each person must determine the level of importance based on their signal situation and their viewing habits.

Well some good news. Over the weekend, I managed to visit a few other displays that featured a PD50, and wow was there a huge difference. I am not sure what was wrong with the first place I went, but I was very impressed by the PQ at these other places. I was able to compare the PD50 to a bunch of other plasmas (such as sony's and even the old Panny) and their PQ was definitely not as good. My father, who was tagging along, was so impressed by the PD50 that he is considering buying one now, even though he has always pretty much been against plasmas.

As it turns out I won't need a rooftop antenna. The PD50U was able to pick up most of the major networks HD channels, ABC, NBC, CBS, WB, PBS and FOX thru cable.

All this talk about stretch mode, I find that "full" and "just" is almost indistinguishable. I really don't like stetch mode and I was hoping to use JUST mode for most SD viewing. But even in JUST mode I find the faces look odd so most of the times I find myself going back to 4:3 for SD viewing. I thought JUST was suppose to stretch the sides and leave the middle mostly intact why is there so little difference between full and just?

Originally posted by mister_two
As it turns out I won't need a rooftop antenna. The PD50U was able to pick up most of the major networks HD channels, ABC, NBC, CBS, WB, PBS and FOX thru cable.

All this talk about stretch mode, I find that "full" and "just" is almost indistinguishable. I really don't like stetch mode and I was hoping to use JUST mode for most SD viewing. But even in JUST mode I find the faces look odd so most of the times I find myself going back to 4:3 for SD viewing. I thought JUST was suppose to stretch the sides and leave the middle mostly intact why is there so little difference between full and just?

Errrr, I can't remember now, but I thought "just" simply streached the top and bottom and did nothing to the sides?

Originally posted by MattNelson
I was at Best Buy today and they have the 50PX50U on their computer for sale less than list price (I wish I could say, sorry due to forum rules). Lets just say fairly well below, but still above $1k above Ecost.com.

The computer says they will arrive 2nd week of May. The service drone was amazed how low the price was (compared to last years model).

I was just speaking yesterday with a Panasonic representative at Best Buy and inquired about the 42PX50U. He said he thought about May 15 but that isn't guaranteed. He thought the price might be below list at BB as part of an introductory offer.

Rich N.

Originally posted by jspirate
Errrr, I can't remember now, but I thought "just" simply streached the top and bottom and did nothing to the sides?

I thought Just mode was a combination of stretch and zoom.

Originally posted by empire_of_one
I thought Just mode was a combination of stretch and zoom.

I bet you are correct. I don't like to rely on my memory :confused:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/prometheus5/PD50UAspects.jpg

Carey P,

thanks for posting the related manual. Calling PD50U owners, what mode do you use when viewing SD 4:3 programs (I know that's redundant) ? Do you find "Full" and "Just" to be about the same? Or is there something wrong with my PD50U's "just" mode?

Originally posted by mister_two
... Calling PD50U owners, what mode do you use when viewing SD 4:3 programs (I know that's redundant) ? Do you find "Full" and "Just" to be about the same? Or is there something wrong with my PD50U's "just" mode?

Speaking as a PD25U owner, I really have to study the picture to find any difference between FULL and JUST. The difference is too subtle to be of any practical value to me.

I doubt the 50U is different from the 25U in this regard. The illustration in the manual is identical.

After the break-in period, I began watching SD 4:3 material in 4:3 most of the time, because I think the PQ is much better that way. (Of course, 80% of my viewing is in HD, so I'm not using the 4:3 mode a lot.)

Originally posted by mister_two
Carey P,
Calling PD50U owners, what mode do you use when viewing SD 4:3 programs (I know that's redundant) ? Do you find "Full" and "Just" to be about the same?

I'm using JUST on 4:3 material in the break-in period. There *is* a difference between JUST and FULL -- put up the grid from the THX Optimizer on, for example, the FINDING NEMO DVD (it's under setup) and switch between modes -- but it's fairly subtle. The distortion in JUST doesn't bother me, but some people hate it.

If burn-in wasn't a potential issue (not to start a debate about that!) I would watch all 4:3 material in 4:3 mode.

Saying "SD 4:3" is not quite redundant -- there's letterboxed SD, when you want to use ZOOM, and anamorphic DVD, when you want to use FULL. And unfortunately there's plenty of 4:3 HD with black sidebars right now.

OK, on a related note (for those with the PD50U), how adjustable is the zoom mode? The Zoom Adjust allows you to change the vertical position and the vertical size (I'm assuming changing vertical size adjusts the amount of zoom, rather than stretching the picture vertically). How much variability do these controls offer? The amount of zoom required to show a 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 image letterboxed in a 4:3 frame (the box-in-a-box effect) at full-size with minimal cropping is different from the amount of zoom required to show a letterboxed 2.35:1 image in a 16:9 frame at full vertical size, so I'm wondering if the Zoom Adjust allows you to set both those to their optimal zoom ratios. Also, how far does the V. Positioning go? Can you, for example, zoom and then move the image all the way up so that only the bottom portion of the zoomed image is cropped?

Originally posted by empire_of_one
How much variability do these controls offer? The amount of zoom required to show a 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 image letterboxed in a 4:3 frame (the box-in-a-box effect) at full-size with minimal cropping is different from the amount of zoom required to show a letterboxed 2.35:1 image in a 16:9 frame at full vertical sizeI have taken a program that was a 16:9 letterboxed in a 4:3 frame (e.g. Star Trek: Enterprise) and expanded it to full screen using the ZOOM feature with no loss of picture. Note - it starts out expanded horizontally to fit the sides of the screen to begin with. Of course, the "quality" of the picture suffers some.

I have also taken a 2.35:1 movie with black bars top and bottom and ZOOMed it so that it filled the screen vertically. You could also use the ZOOM to shift the image to meet the top of the screen and leave a large black bar at the bottom. I believe I tried that too for the fun of it. Hope that answers your q's.

the zoom adjust is a very nice feature. I'm beginning to use it more and more over the regular JUST and FULL modes.

You can adjust it so that if you're watching SD, you can zoom up on it, and pan it so that the top part is only part showing. That means it can get rid of the annoying channel logo!

the zoom adjust is a very nice feature. I'm beginning to use it more and more over the regular JUST and FULL modes.

You can adjust it so that if you're watching SD, you can zoom up on it, and pan it so that the top part is only part showing. That means it can get rid of the annoying channel logo!

I can usually get rid of the FOX logo and the TBS logos with the v-positioning.

So it sounds like you can zoom and position the picture pretty much however you want. Very nice indeed.

Now if they were to allow you to combine zoom and stretch, so you could zoom the picture just enough to get rid of the logos/tickers, and then stretch the picture just enough to not noticably distort people's faces, and then... ahh but now I'm just dreaming...

comparing my pd50 to my old 25u, the 50u displays SD better when getting straight analog cable. I think it has a better interlacer or line doubler, or whatever...it just looks better.

Has anyone had experience with Panasonic's extended warranty service? We're thinking seriously about the 42PX50U when it arrives on the shelves and if it looks as good as we think it will. I called Panasonic today to ask them about their 3 year extended warranty. It's a genuine 3 years, not like some store warranties that are called 4 year but don't actually begin until after the manufacturer's warranty expires. But at $700, it's considerably more expensive than the store's warranty. JK

Originally posted by jacx
Has anyone had experience with Panasonic's extended warranty service? We're thinking seriously about the 42PX50U when it arrives on the shelves and if it looks as good as we think it will. I called Panasonic today to ask them about their 3 year extended warranty. It's a genuine 3 years, not like some store warranties that are called 4 year but don't actually begin until after the manufacturer's warranty expires. But at $700, it's considerably more expensive than the store's warranty. JK Is their warranty available after the sale during the first year? IMO nothing beats the manufacturer's extended warranty.

Ok "Kids", here's how to enter the Service Menu on the TH-42PD50U :


While pressing the VOLUME - (minus) button on the Plasma,
press the "RECALL" button on the Remote Control 3 times in a row (within 2 seconds).



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adjustment method - Use the remote Control:

"1" button - Main items Selection in forward direction
"2" button - Main items Selection in reverse direction
"3" button - Sub items Selection in forward direction
"4" button - Sub items Selection in reverse direction
"VOL" Button - Value of sub items change in forward direction (>) - reverse direction (<)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exit the Service menu:

Switch off the power (Using the remote or the plasma button)


Don't have the PD50U so I have no idea how the menus look like. ;)


Let me know if it works.


Have fun. :D

Originally posted by BruZZi
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ok "Kids", courtesy of BruZZi's Web...

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Here's how to enter the Service Menu on the TH-42PD50U :




While pressing the " VOLUME + " button* on the Plasma,
press the "RECALL" button on the Remote Control 3 times in a row (within 2 seconds).



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adjustment method - Use the remote Control:

"1" button - Main items Selection in forward direction
"2" button - Main items Selection in reverse direction
"3" button - Sub items Selection in forward direction
"4" button - Sub items Selection in reverse direction
"VOL" Button - Value of sub items change in forward direction (>) - reverse direction (<)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exit the Service menu:

Switch off the power (Using the remote or the plasma button)



* I'm still not sure if It's the [Volume +] or the [Volume -] so try both.


Don't have the PD50U so I have no idea how the menus look like. ;)


Let me know if it works.


Have fun. :D

Nice! I can't wait to get home and try it :)

Originally posted by BruZZi
I'm still not sure if It's the [Volume +] or the [Volume -] so try both.

Don't have the PD50U so I have no idea how the menus look like. ;)


It's [Volume -].

The top of the screen says "INTERCAT2001" in red.

There are then four top-level menu items: PCT-ADJ (picture adjust), OPTION (BOOT/ROM), RM-SET (remote mode), and STB-CAS (don't know what this is). PCT-ADJ has subentries for color, tint, and some AGC modes (automatic gain control?)

I didn't see anything that looked like the number of hours of operation, which was the only thing I was actually interested in.

I was frankly afraid to play with it any further; there are plenty of ways you can mess up at this level.

ccdengr,
Once inside Service Menu, press "1" on the remote two times until you see OPTION BOOT ROM.

Now press and hold the MUTE key on the remote for 3 seconds.

And there you have it.
TIME = Hours of Operation

My wife and I recently finished a remodel of our house. The last piece is the plasma screen above the fireplace :). I've been waiting on the TH-42PX50U to release. I saw on the Panasonic website that they were available and would ship out "on or about 5/2". I decided to place the order yesterday, with the intention of canceling if they came available at a local store sooner. I received a call this morning from Panasonic saying that my TV will ship out today!!!

I'm a little nervous about buying before seeing the TV, but the wife and I have been without TV in the family room since the end of January. So given the reputation of the Panasonic line and the rave review of the pd50, hopefully it is worth the risk.

Originally posted by hdguy
ccdengr,
Once inside Service Menu, press "1" on the remote two times until you see OPTION BOOT ROM.

Now press and hold the MUTE key on the remote for 3 seconds.

And there you have it.
TIME = Hours of Operation Cool! Now we're getting somewhere. :)

Only problem I have now is, after going into the STB-CAS and hitting the OK button - I got a "CAS" screen with the choice of Hard Test or SD Download. The other sections are blank. Hitting OK on the Hard Test shows all checks OK. Hitting Return gets you back out to the Service Menu. However - after a power off and back on, it keeps entering the same CAS screen with the Hard Test highlighted. I seem to be stuck in that mode every time the set is turned on! :( I need to hit Return to go to the regular channel.

I tried leaving the Service Menu in many other ways, such as from the main INTERCAT2001 screen, but it still wants to go to that CAS screen when I power on.

Do you know any other secrets you wish to divulge, such as how I get out of this mess?

I notice in that Hours menu screen there are a set of 0's on the second line under PTCT which can be changed with the VOL or the 3&4 keys. What does that do?

The only thing I set was the Tint from 05 to 02. However, now it seems to have changed by itself to 00. I also noticed the YMAX started out as 002 (which I could not change) and now it is at 000. Other settings have not changed. This seems to be the case for any input or signal type. Any further help is greatly appreciated! Thanks.

did anyone thank Bruzzi yet?

YOU DA MAN!

Like to hear what others think on what these consumer models will do to the pricing on the commercial models when they are released ?

I am considering purchasing the TH-50PHD7UY next month, and think they will go even lower when the new consumer models come out...

Originally posted by onyx1906
I've been waiting on the TH-42PX50U to release. I received a call this morning from Panasonic saying that my TV will ship out today!!!



Onyx, we want pics as soon as it arrives. You'll probably be the most popular guy on the forum in a few days. :cool:

Originally posted by Carey P
I tried leaving the Service Menu in many other ways, such as from the main INTERCAT2001 screen, but it still wants to go to that CAS screen when I power on.

Yikes! That sucks. I see now that my fear about playing in the service menu was justified.

Presumably the info about the service menu is coming from the service manual; it seems unlikely that somebody would stumble on the MUTE button thing by experimenting. So hopefully a fix for your problem is forthcoming.

BTW, my best guess about what CAS means is Conditional Access System (i.e., CableCard.) I wonder if the guts of the PD50 would support a CableCard and they just saved a few bucks by omitting the external connector and card slot.

Carey P (and others) PLEASE BE CAREFUL!

Don't go poking around stuff if you do not know what the outcome will be!

Carey P, to get out of your problem, press the SLEEP button (on the remote) and VOL down (on the unit) simultaneously for 5 seconds.

After the self check screen, unplug your set.

Originally posted by mister_two
Carey P,

thanks for posting the related manual. Calling PD50U owners, what mode do you use when viewing SD 4:3 programs (I know that's redundant) ? Do you find "Full" and "Just" to be about the same? Or is there something wrong with my PD50U's "just" mode?


I view the majority of 4:3 programs using the "JUST" aspect however once in awhile certain sitcoms do seem to display the people as a bit blown up. I really do not see a lot of difference in the "FULL" or "JUST" aspects they really seem the same although the manual state otherwise. I guess it is just a matter of choice.

For example some threads i have read talk about the green-house effect. I haven't noticed that at all. From what i have read not everyone experiences the Green House effect and i can confirm that because i have tried to see it and cannot. I am thankful for that.

I do seem to have a "green" push as some people have mentioned in earlier posts. It shows up on some scenes but it isn't consistent. It seems to be more prevalent in scenes that display a lot of green like golf courses. But like i said it isn't consistent as sometimes the green looks great.

I have been able to pick up the Local HD programs using standard TWC, but sometimes the signal keeps dropping off. It seems that although the signals are allowed to feed through they are not all that strong as they fade out quite frequently. Has anyone else experienced this. It isn't always the case and seems to be more prevalent during the day at least for me. When they do come through they look fantastic. I can't wait till i get Digital and HD from TWC. I love this set . It has the best PQ of any PDP/LCD/DLP/LCOS/RP HDTV or EDTV that i saw displayed anywhere. I had a friend come over the other day to watch the NFL Draft and he owns a CRT HD Phillips set. He couldn't believe that it was not HD. He had never heard of EDTV and when i explained it all to him i had to bring it up on Google so he could read up on it for his own eyes. The reason he didn't believe it was HD was because some of the HD Channels were coming through in 720p and 1080i. I explained that the native resolution was 420p and that the signal was adjusted to 420p and not HD but ED. He wished he had waited because he also loved the Panasonic.

Originally posted by ccdengr


BTW, my best guess about what CAS means is Conditional Access System (i.e., CableCard.) I wonder if the guts of the PD50 would support a CableCard and they just saved a few bucks by omitting the external connector and card slot.

I think you are right about it supporting a Cable Card. One person i talked to at Panasonic said it did and when i explained to him that it didn't i do not feel he believed me. I think Panasonic just saved a few bucks by ommitting it as you claimed.

Originally posted by hdguy
Carey P (and others) PLEASE BE CAREFUL!

Don't go poking around stuff if you do not know what the outcome will be!

Carey P, to get out of your problem, press the SLEEP button (on the remote) and VOL down (on the unit) simultaneously for 5 seconds.

After the self check screen, unplug your set. Thanks for the save! That worked nicely. Too bad it resets everything to defaults. I'm re-scanning my channels now. I'll be a lot more careful in the future!

Originally posted by snook789
Like to hear what others think on what these consumer models will do to the pricing on the commercial models when they are released ?

I am considering purchasing the TH-50PHD7UY next month, and think they will go even lower when the new consumer models come out...

The commercial models (7uy) prices have been dropping constantly, month to month. I don't know if there will be a "big" price drop or not, but there should continue to be a steady decline.

JCPZero

Sorry if it's been posted, but I was at BB today and found out that the TH-37PX50U will be in stores (at least in my region) on May 15th.

Originally posted by jcpzero
The commercial models (7uy) prices have been dropping constantly, month to month. I don't know if there will be a "big" price drop or not, but there should continue to be a steady decline.

JCPZero

As far as I know, the black strobing question has never been satisfactorily resolved.....which makes me ask why I should buy one of these rather than wait a few weeks for the new Panny's which will probably be competitively priced.

For those interested in getting the TH-42PD50U Service Manual , There's a Online Store especialized on Manuals selling it for cheap. PM for more info. :)




.

Originally posted by hdguy
Carey P (and others) PLEASE BE CAREFUL!

Don't go poking around stuff if you do not know what the outcome will be!

Carey P, to get out of your problem, press the SLEEP button (on the remote) and VOL down (on the unit) simultaneously for 5 seconds.

After the self check screen, unplug your set.

Hi hdguy

Did you figure out how to change the overscan?
I checked out the service menu but is is very different from the PD25U which I was familiar with.
Any input is greatly appreciated

Does anyone know for sure the 42px50u are any different from the 42phd7uy. Panny doesnt say anything about sub-pixel control for either.
What is the the difference. I know commercial notuner thing and some hookups. But 7th to 8th Gen. Or is the 8th gen the 500u's.

Just got a notification from a certain alliance member, they seem to be the authority on TVs, that they had the PX50U in stock now.

AND the panasonic web site now shows "full" specs for the 42PX50 (previously many of the specs were not listed - they just said N/A).

Originally posted by megaptera
AND the panasonic web site now shows "full" specs for the 42PX50 (previously many of the specs were not listed - they just said N/A).

Good catch!

Has anybody else noticed this? Look at the pictures of the PD50U, PX50U and PX500U in the first post of this thread.

The speakers of the PD50U and PX50U are clearly visible beneath the display. For the PX50U, they're in the silver section.

But when I take a close look at the PX500U, I don't see any speakers in the picture. Perhaps the "texture" of the speakers is hidden in the "wider" black section at the bottom of the PX500U?

Well, the bezel looks VERY similar to the 7th gen PX series, so it probably works the same way.

Pricegrabber now shows all the models w/ several vendors selling each. Come on, guys. Get to orderin'. :D

Has anyone noticed the "ONYX" label seems to be associated with the PX500U PDPs but not the PX50U's? While the 500U's add features like an electronic program guide & PC input, is there anything "radically" superior regarding the glass or electronics, or are the 500U's essentially the same as the 50U's, but with some additional "bells & whistles?"

Originally posted by iBleedGarnet
Pricegrabber now shows all the models w/ several vendors selling each. Come on, guys. Get to orderin'. :D

Just got an e-mail form TVA saying that the 42PX50 is in stock. To reitereate...someone get to ordering :D

fwiw plasmahouse now says the the 37 will be available in 2-3 weeks, and the 50 listed at 2 weeks. Not sure what its worth since plasmahouse has previously said that it was available and we all know that wasnt true, but now they have a time frame.

Now if we can only find a B&M with one on display...

I am definitely hoping for some intensive reviews with pictures as soon as ppl get their hands on some. Maybe some of the TVA ppl can give us their opinion on the 42px50 since they have it in stock?

Originally posted by ccdengr
It's [Volume -].

The top of the screen says "INTERCAT2001" in red.

There are then four top-level menu items: PCT-ADJ (picture adjust), PCT-ADJ has subentries for color, tint, and some AGC modes (automatic gain control?)


Can someone explain what the picture adjustments in the service menu give above and beyond the regular picture settings?

My big gripe with the PD50U is the lack of per input picture settings. Can the service menu picture adjustments make up for this deficiency?

Sounds like we are going to need a how to guide on the service menu.

Thanks,

JCPZero

Originally posted by jcpzero
Can someone explain what the picture adjustments in the service menu give above and beyond the regular picture settings?


On the PD25, the service menu could be used to set overscan and determine the number of hours. Presumably there were ways to tweak individual color channel settings to correct "green push" and similar problems, though I haven't been able to find the specifics.

There may or may not be ways to set these with the PD50; I think this can only be discovered with reference to the service manual.

It's entirely possible that the "average user" will never need to access the service menu.


My big gripe with the PD50U is the lack of per input picture settings. Can the service menu picture adjustments make up for this deficiency?


It doesn't seem likely that this issue could be corrected.

I want to make sure I understand correctly. There are three picture "modes" in the Panny: Vivid, Standard, and Cinema. Each can be tweaked individually and assigned to any input, so this basically gives you three separate sets of picture settings to work with. The modes can be shared by any of the inputs or used on just a single input. Is this correct? Are there any differences between the three picture modes that aren't user-configurable?

Originally posted by empire_of_one
I want to make sure I understand correctly. There are three picture "modes" in the Panny: Vivid, Standard, and Cinema. Each can be tweaked individually and assigned to any input, so this basically gives you three separate sets of picture settings to work with.

This is my understanding. On any input you can select one of the 3 picture modes.

The NEC VR5 for example has 6 memory settings, The Fuji has 8 picture settings and the 7uy rembers settings for each input.

Maybe someone can comment on Vivid, but I don't know if it can be tweaked enough to be close to a standard setting for example.

JCPZero

empire, you are correct. That's one way to get around adjusting picture settings for each input (well, at least you have 3 memories).

Originally posted by empire_of_one
I want to make sure I understand correctly. There are three picture "modes" in the Panny: Vivid, Standard, and Cinema. Each can be tweaked individually and assigned to any input, so this basically gives you three separate sets of picture settings to work with. The modes can be shared by any of the inputs or used on just a single input. Is this correct? Are there any differences between the three picture modes that aren't user-configurable?

There are differences. The same settings in each mode will not give you the same results. (I've read that each has different Gamma settings, but I don't know that for a fact.)

That doesn't seem to bother some users, though, as they are quite content with the workaround you describe.

Does it surprise anyone else that there's been absolutely zero mention (that I've seen) of the much-vaunted sub-pixel control that, in the initial press release, was going to "increase horizontal resolution by 33%"??

What happened to it? Is it in any / all of the new panels? Why isn't it mentioned anywhere??

Good catch, Perry.

Jumped over to the Pany website to check out the 42PX50's description (we already knew the PD said zip). Nada.

500 series????

Originally posted by Macfan424
There are differences. The same settings in each mode will not give you the same results. (I've read that each has different Gamma settings, but I don't know that for a fact.)

That doesn't seem to bother some users, though, as they are quite content with the workaround you describe.

So the next obvious question is, are there service menu settings for each of these individual modes to tweak the settings that are different between them, gamma and whatnot?

Originally posted by empire_of_one
So the next obvious question is, are there service menu settings for each of these individual modes to tweak the settings that are different between them, gamma and whatnot? Doesn't appear to be. I was able to change the tint down a couple of notches to eliminate some green, but it seems to apply to all Picture Modes. Effectively, this seems to allow one to use a higher Tint number (more near 0) in the normal settings.
Actually, the manual does not describe the purpose of many of the Service Menu settings, from what I could tell.

One nice thing though is the Hotel Mode, where you can set a default startup input to use and volume setting, etc. This works great for my wife who turns the set on in the morning after I've left it in some unknown state the night before. :D

Did a Google search for TH-42PX500U and came up with this:

PANASONIC - TH42PX500U 42-IN HDTV Plasma Television with CableCARD Slot and PC Input
ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners; 720p/1080i/480p/480i video in; CableCARD slot; Electronic Program Guide; SD Memory Card slot2; photo viewer; 16:9 screen; contrast ratio up to 3000:1; PCMCIA slot, PC input; HDMI, optical digital audio out; The Director Lighted Disc

This is the same info that appears in the very first item in this thread.

Originally posted by puckfreak
Just got an e-mail form TVA saying that the 42PX50 is in stock. To reitereate...someone get to ordering :D

It is now listed on their website. Surprising thing is, their price for the 42PX50 is lower than their price for the 42PHD7UY. Makes you wonder why anyone would buy the 7UY.

Originally posted by jrock65
It is now listed on their website. Surprising thing is, their price for the 42PX50 is lower than their price for the 42PHD7UY. Makes you wonder why anyone would buy the 7UY.

I want the built in ATSC tuner and my main complaint is that the TH-42PX50
doesn't have a PC interface (DVI or RGB). I'm not sure how well HDMI will
work with a PC DVI connection.

The 42PHD7UY has the flexibility of multiple HDMI interfaces "built-in"
through optional blades and PC interface.

I think the 42PX500 has the PC interface but Panasonic will probably
botch this by putting the interface in the front again like they did with
the 42PX25. For home theater pc's (HTPCs), the interface should be
in the rear.

Still no good sense of "convergence" in the living room from
manufacturers :^(

Originally posted by jrock65
It is now listed on their website. Surprising thing is, their price for the 42PX50 is lower than their price for the 42PHD7UY. Makes you wonder why anyone would buy the 7UY.

Makes me look forward to 8uy and lower msrps... Possibly the PX50 will help drive down the PHD7UY price soon.

JCPZero

The price at TVA is just sick! ;)
Makes me think that popping for the 'HD' version is not as bad a decision for me as it used to be. That and the dark grey bezel make this unit very attractive. Gone (more or less) would be the dreaded SDE.

On the other hand... waiting for the 8UY could also be the ticket, even the HD model.

Paralyzed by indecision and choices. I'll pull the trigger on something eventually! ;)

Cheers.

Even less if you google this: sku#S4060964

Originally posted by megaptera
Even less if you google this: sku#S4060964

And look at the price on the 500U from the same vendor!!!

hi,

articles and posts from awhile back noted that panny's composite PQ, oddly enough, was better than its S-video. is this still the case with the new models like the 50u? considering buying one and the best my cable company can do is s-video. thanks.

Originally posted by jcinzano
articles and posts from awhile back noted that panny's composite PQ, oddly enough, was better than its S-video. is this still the case with the new models like the 50u? considering buying one and the best my cable company can do is s-video. thanks.

I didn't do a direct head-to-head between composite and S-video, but I've got my set-top box (SA3100) hooked up to my PD50 via S-video and the quality of SD seems fine.

Originally posted by DarrenK
Even Better

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by megaptera
Even less if you google this: sku#S4060964
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And look at the price on the 500U from the same vendor!!!

And I notice the TH-50PX500U is only $155 more then the TH-50PX50U !

Originally posted by megaptera
Has anybody else noticed this? Look at the pictures of the PD50U, PX50U and PX500U in the first post of this thread.

The speakers of the PD50U and PX50U are clearly visible beneath the display. For the PX50U, they're in the silver section.

But when I take a close look at the PX500U, I don't see any speakers in the picture. Perhaps the "texture" of the speakers is hidden in the "wider" black section at the bottom of the PX500U?

There is a good Flash movie on panny site, check it out
http://www.panasonic.com/flash.html

Also here is the buyers guide, with more pictures
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/brochures/B_PlasmaTVBuyersGuideFAQ.pdf

Originally posted by shane55
The price at TVA is just sick! ;)
Makes me think that popping for the 'HD' version is not as bad a decision for me as it used to be. That and the dark grey bezel make this unit very attractive. Gone (more or less) would be the dreaded SDE.

On the other hand... waiting for the 8UY could also be the ticket, even the HD model.

Paralyzed by indecision and choices. I'll pull the trigger on something eventually! ;)

Cheers.

People keep talking about an 8UY set, but I have yet to see any info on it or even an announcement. Why would you want to wait for this set?

Originally posted by swflbatth
People keep talking about an 8UY set, but I have yet to see any info on it or even an announcement. Why would you want to wait for this set?

Actually swflbatth, I was somewhat kidding...
But part of the paralysis which is common to people like me and many on this and other threads is knowing that 'something better' is right around the corner.
"Heck, I've waited this long, another couple months for something even better, won't hurt" is the pervasive philosophy. At some point we just have to pull the trigger and jump in to the fray.

I have not seen anything about the 8UY except a rumor or two here and there, but you *know* it’s coming ;)
While there's much to like about the PD50 and the PX50 (mainly the newer panel and its superior PQ), but I still prefer the simple PW7UY styling. I don't want speakers, I don't care about a tuner, I don't want the thick frame, and I would like PIP and input choices. So if this newer, better panel is 'soon' to be available in a commercial model, I would hold out for it. My need for a new plasma monitor is actually more of a ‘want’. And if the current pricing is any indication of things to come, the ‘8UY’ (when and if) could be amazingly affordable.

Cheers.

According to Panasonic the next Generation will have a half life of 100,000 hours. This should significantly improve burn-in as well. The speculation is that the 8UY will have this latest panel.

That might make it worth waiting for. Also, Pany has been steadily lowering their MSRPs as they introduce the new models. Dare we hope???

The new Panny ED display PD50 is spec'd with a contrast ratio of 4000:1 while the HD version PX50 is only 3000:1.

Does anyone know why there is this difference between two models of the same generation?

Would this difference be more visible in Daylight or low-light conditions?


Do you think the PD will actually have a better overall viewing experience for all non-HD programming?

If anyone has a chance to see the two side-by-side it would be interesting to hear the comparison.

Thanks.

Originally posted by jaguar62
The new Panny ED display PD50 is spec'd with a contrast ratio of 4000:1 while the HD version PX50 is only 3000:1.

Does anyone know why there is this difference between two models of the same generation?


Probably because the pixel size is smaller on the HD set. (Same screen area, more pixels.)

Constrast ratio has a large marketing component. I wouldn't think the difference between 4000:1 and 3000:1 would change the viewing experience much in reality.

Some people have argued that SD video quality is better on ED sets than HD sets because there's less scaling required. This is obviously a function of how well the scaling is done. I think Panasonic's scaling is pretty good. What the actual PQ is likely to be the sort of subjective opinion that people will debate endlessly but can't ever agree on.

Another issue with the PX50 is that since it's 1024x768 pixels, the pixels aren't square, whereas they are on the PD50. That might or might not make a visible difference to PQ.

If I had had the choice between a PD50 for one price and a PX50 for $500 more, I'm not sure what I would have done. Fortunately, when I bought the PD50 I didn't have that choice. :) I'm pretty sure I wouldn't pay $1000 more for 1024x768 instead of ED, and I'm not sure I'd buy a plasma over the net instead of at a B&M either, by obviously that's just my own preference.

Originally posted by ccdengr
Another issue with the PX50 is that since it's 1024x768 pixels, the pixels aren't square, whereas they are on the PD50. That might or might not make a visible difference to PQ.


I don't think it will. The reason I say this is that I've viewed two 50" HD panels next to one another (Sony and Pio). Both have 768 vertical but the Sony has 1365 (or is it 66?) horizontal while the Pio has 1280. Both PQ's were excellent, and the most noticeable differences were the subtle differences in colors rendered.

FWIW

Does it allow you to expand the number of inputs?

Kurt

Originally posted by yobob
I don't think it will. The reason I say this is that I've viewed two 50" HD panels next to one another (Sony and Pio). Both have 768 vertical but the Sony has 1365 (or is it 66?) horizontal while the Pio has 1280. Both PQ's were excellent, and the most noticeable differences were the subtle differences in colors rendered.

FWIW

But that is comparing apples and oranges. The only way to tell if the pixel shape makes a difference is to compare two similar models from same manufacturer. It is mostly believed that the sqauresness of pixels on ED is beneficial and that is why at 42", ED sets PQ are not that far behind HD, even with HD content...

Originally posted by jaguar62
The new Panny ED display PD50 is spec'd with a contrast ratio of 4000:1 while the HD version PX50 is only 3000:1.

Does anyone know why there is this difference between two models of the same generation?



I'm not sure of this either, but my barely educated guess would be that with more pixels to light on the PX50U, the overall max brightness of the panel may be less than the PD50U. Lighting the extra pixels is going to use more energy, and so the PX50U might not be able to output quite as much light as the PD50U. Of course, it all depends on the exact method Panasonic uses to measure their contrast ratios. If they're measuring it as the difference between an all-black screen and an all-white screen, then the lower panel brightness would give a lower contrast difference. But if as some manufacturers do, they only light up a small portion of the screen to measure the white level, then other factors such as pixel size may play more of a role.

Either way, after calibration it's unlikely you'll be producing whites at the exaggerated level they're using for their measurements, so there may be very little practical difference in contrast.

The PX50 is only 1024*768? I was under the impression that the larger panels would get 1366*768 or 1280*720 as writers earlier in this thread implied.

I too do not care for the tuner and accessories included with the PX50. I would much prefer just the panel like the 7 or 8Y. I wonder when these models will be available?

Manual for TH-37PX50U, TH-42PX50U, TH-50PX50U

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TH37PX50U.PDF

Originally posted by kiwi2000
The PX50 is only 1024*768? I was under the impression that the larger panels would get 1366*768 or 1280*720 as writers earlier in this thread implied.

That is the resolution for the 42PX50. The 50PX50 is 1366X768.

Originally posted by alexb76
But that is comparing apples and oranges. The only way to tell if the pixel shape makes a difference is to compare two similar models from same manufacturer. It is mostly believed that the sqauresness of pixels on ED is beneficial and that is why at 42", ED sets PQ are not that far behind HD, even with HD content...

Do you really think so?

Seriously, an outstanding PQ is an outstanding PQ, to my eyes. And as so often stated here, it's a function of several components of the overall picture.

I've witnessed a far greater difference between panels with the same resolution from top and second tier manufacturers than I have between two panels with different resolutions when they're both top brands.

Originally posted by jaguar62
The new Panny ED display PD50 is spec'd with a contrast ratio of 4000:1 while the HD version PX50 is only 3000:1.

Does anyone know why there is this difference between two models of the same generation?
Thanks.

IIRC, based on previous threads, the contrast difference is due to less physical surface area available to "light up" on the HD version. There are more plasma cells (pixels) which require more membranes (borders) to separate the elements. These areas are always "off". In other words, when the panel is fully lit, an ED version will be brighter than an HD version.

Originally posted by Geordon
IIRC, based on previous threads, the contrast difference is due to less physical surface area available to "light up" on the HD version. There are more plasma cells (pixels) which require more membranes (borders) to separate the elements. These areas are always "off". In other words, when the panel is fully lit, an ED version will be brighter than an HD version.

Thanks for a very informative and concise explationans. Thought I'd throw this one at you: What is it that causes the SDE on ED's, and what, if any adjustments can be made to lessen this affect (hopefully, without a significant degradation in overall PQ).

BIG bordered pixels. Way bigger than any found on a HD panel of similar dimensions. Especially noticeable in white or light scenes. That's because the cell borders are black and white calls attention to them.

Can't tune out the borders, but by reducing brightness you can mitigate the SDE effect to a degree.

Originally posted by jaimslaw
Thought I'd throw this one at you: What is it that causes the SDE on ED's, and what, if any adjustments can be made to lessen this affect (hopefully, without a significant degradation in overall PQ).

everything I've read on SDE so far says "Scoot back to 8-10 feet"

:)

Good answer w0mbat. While it doesn't treat the disease, it does something for the symptoms. :)

Originally posted by KurtC
Does it allow you to expand the number of inputs?

Kurt

Nope.


Only the Commercial Models have this feature (Slots).

Originally posted by yobob
Do you really think so?

Seriously, an outstanding PQ is an outstanding PQ, to my eyes. And as so often stated here, it's a function of several components of the overall picture.

I've witnessed a far greater difference between panels with the same resolution from top and second tier manufacturers than I have between two panels with different resolutions when they're both top brands.

Totally true! My comment was to the comparison a Pioneer and Sony units with different pixel shape and concluding that it didn't make a difference! While it could have been a multiple other reasons for that...

In almost all properly technical reviews, sqaureness is a major factor in PQ, as well as a whole lot of other factors which can totally minimize the effect of pixel squareness...

Generally speaking, everything else being equal, a unit with square pixel has better PQ... I dont think anyone can dispute that!

I wouldn't. I would always prefer square pixels, and when I finally (????) pull the trigger it is going to be one of the brands/models that have them.

But my reason isn't so much the "squareness," as it is the whole package that makes them more preferable than another brand.

Does anyone have the Th-50px50u in stock? I'm ready for a plasma but if I can't find one soon from a reputable dealer I will probably end up with a Pioneer.

Originally posted by DaveN
Does anyone have the Th-50px50u in stock? I'm ready for a plasma but if I can't find one soon from a reputable dealer I will probably end up with a Pioneer.

Have you tried calling any local dealers? Two different local dealers
now have TH-42PX50U's in stock as of yesterday/today. Well, actually
only one does ... the other dealer got 7 in yesterday and I'm taking
delivery of #7 tomorrow. :D

Panasonic seems to have significantly reigned in their pricing policies
too. *FINALLY*

Online prices are not that much cheaper than the local dealers.
Gone are the days of the $2K price differential between online and
local retailers.

When it was all said and done, the local dealer took $200 off without
me even bargaining (cuz I kept callin' him and making a pest of myself).
Plus free delivery. Which means the sales tax was free.

Plus I've bought most of my AV equipment from these guys so maybe
I could save another $100 or $200 but at least I *KNOW* I don't have
to wait 3-5 days and I *KNOW* if I have a problem I can return the item.

And it ain't one of the nationwide chains.

Originally posted by empire_of_one
Now if we can only find a B&M with one on display...

Yesterday I saw both the Panasonic 42PX50 and the 42PD50 on display at a Fry's Electronics store, and at under the new MSRP pricing, very inviting and great looking. I like the height of the table stand, I measured there is enough height I could set my center channel speaker on the base in front of the display and it wouldn't block any of the image.

I have no "local" dealers. Nearest BB/CC is 35 minutes away and they don't plan on carrying the Panny 50 inch in stock. Once you're talking 2 hours to a dealer online looks attractive.

So, is there any word yet on how the 42px50 displays SD vs. the 42pd50? I'm just about ready to pull the trigger, and perhaps the HD set is the way to go if it has no shortcomings SD or DVD-wise. I use Cablevision digital Io service in NJ.

Originally posted by Joxer
Yesterday I saw both the Panasonic 42PX50 and the 42PD50 on display at a Fry's Electronics store,

You gonna tease us like that? Did you not take any spy pics?:D

Seriously, give us more info. How'd the bezel look compared to the PD's silver one? Were they running the same feed, etc...... Give us your thoughts.

the px has a black bezel and a silver stand,

Ken, I know that, silly. I've seen the pics. He's the only one claiming to have seen more than just a .jpg of the display.

I wanted to know how it looks in real life. :p

Thanks for the manual snook789! Very interesting reading.

On page 13 it states that 720p signals will be converted to 1080i. If the 50 inch panels resolution is 1366*768 that seems like an unnecessary step.

I do not see in the manual where it states the resolution of the panels. Where is this information found?

Originally posted by kiwi2000
Thanks for the manual snook789! Very interesting reading.
On page 13 it states that 720p signals will be converted to 1080i. If the 50 inch panels resolution is 1366*768 that seems like an unnecessary step.

Yep, I read that too. So I guess it means that they TV will:

720p -> 1080i -> 768p.

Now, does the 720p to 1080i conversion only apply to the component inputs? Or HDMI as well?

If it does apply to the HDMI input, there is absolutely no reason to set your upconverting DVD player to 720p. You should just set it to upconvert to 1080i. Is this correct?

The TH-50PX50U is now on Panasonic's official website.

As expected, it carries an MSRP of $4,999.95.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=93338&catGroupId=24973&modelNo=TH-50PX50U&surfModel=TH-50PX50U&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702

Originally posted by jrock65
The TH-50PX50U is now on Panasonic's official website.

As expected, it carries an MSRP of $4,999.95.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=93338&catGroupId=24973&modelNo=TH-50PX50U&surfModel=TH-50PX50U&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702

no pip - any idea if the 500 will have pip???

I have the 42PD50 and am currently using a non-progressive DVD player that I picked up a few years ago for $130. I've been reading the DVD forum and it appears that providing a 480i signal to an ED television and letting the television do the work may be just as good as what we would get from a progressive player and a 480p signal.

What kind of DVD player are you using on your 42PD50 and does it really make a noticeable difference if you use 480i or 480p? If not, I would think it would be best to just wait for the HD players.

I just saw the 42px50 at Fry's. Very nice looking, I like the black bezel
better than the silver. They had Discovery HD on thru the component input.
I am by no means an expert, but the contrast was definitely better than
the sony xbr. If cc is going to sell them at the price they had in their computer last weekend, I will bite.

Mike, how did the px50 look compared to the pd50? Hopefully I'll get to see it soon.

Originally posted by GTalbert
I have the 42PD50 and am currently using a non-progressive DVD player that I picked up a few years ago for $130. I've been reading the DVD forum and it appears that providing a 480i signal to an ED television and letting the television do the work may be just as good as what we would get from a progressive player and a 480p signal.

It depends on the player and on how good the PD50's deinterlacer is. These differences are all so subtle that you might not notice them in either case. Using progressive mode on the player may introduce some artifacts with many DVDs, but should look better on 90% of the DVDs out there.

Until somebody does detailed tests with test disks, this question can't really be answered objectively. I'm using a progressive player on mine and it looks really good, but I don't know if I'd be able to tell if I used interlaced. If you're happy with what you've got, I wouldn't worry about it, since just switching to progressive is *not* a slam dunk.

Lots of good information (maybe too much :)) at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/dvd-benchmark-introduction-9-2000.html

Originally posted by jrock65 ]
Yep, I read that too. So I guess it means that they TV will:

720p -> 1080i -> 768p.

Now, does the 720p to 1080i conversion only apply to the component inputs? Or HDMI as well?

If it does apply to the HDMI input, there is absolutely no reason to set your upconverting DVD player to 720p. You should just set it to upconvert to 1080i. Is this correct?
_________________________________________________________

jrock65

I have read about the px50 on the web site link you left. On it they claim some units will display native 720p. A quick call to Panasonic and they claim this unit will do just that without upconversion.

Originally posted by jrock65
Yep, I read that too. So I guess it means that they TV will:

720p -> 1080i -> 768p.

Now, does the 720p to 1080i conversion only apply to the component inputs? Or HDMI as well?

If it does apply to the HDMI input, there is absolutely no reason to set your upconverting DVD player to 720p. You should just set it to upconvert to 1080i. Is this correct?

Wow, that's really strange. I checked the manual and the exact quote is:

"720p signals will be converted to 1080i format and output to the display."

This just sounds weird to me, because we know the native resolution is 768p so obviously it's converted to 768p at some point. So when they say "output to the display" I'm not sure exactly what they mean. Obviously they can't mean the actual display of the plasma, since it has to be 768p to work. It could mean, the component inputs themselves convert 720p to 1080i, but that would have to be done in the electronics after the inputs, not the inputs themselves. Perhaps there's an extra step in the electronics between the component inputs and the main panel processing electronics that does this conversion step. But if this is the case, you would assume this is done because the primary electronics aren't capable of processing 720p. In which case, you would assume the same to be true of a 720p signal sent by HDMI, but there's no mention of this conversion in the HDMI section. The HDMI section only says "1080i and 720p signals will be re-formatted for viewing on your plasma display" which presumable refers to the conversion to the panel's native 768p resolution.

Because this note is in the STB/DVD section, it also makes me wonder if they're referring to the STB or an upconverting DVD player converting 720p to 1080i, and then outputting to the display, i.e. the TV through it's component inputs. But that doesn't seem right either, since STBs and upconverting DVD players can output both 720p and 1080i.

Since the PX50 is the same glass as the 7UY, it probably has mostly the same processing electronics as that panel, and we know the 7UY didn't accept 720p at all. So maybe Panasonic just added some extra electronics to convert 720p signals to 1080i, so that the existing processing electronics, which couldn't process 720p, could be re-used. That's definitely cutting corners, since you're not really getting true 720p that way. I also wonder how this affects HDMI. I was never clear whether the 720p limitation applied to HDMI as well as component on the 7UY, but I was under the impression it did. But the manual doesn't mention anything about converting 720p to 1080i on HDMI. Maybe the electronics are capable of processing digital 720p delivered over HDMI, but not analog 720p delivered over component.

Originally posted by kiwi2000
Originally posted by jrock65 ]
Yep, I read that too. So I guess it means that they TV will:

720p -> 1080i -> 768p.

Now, does the 720p to 1080i conversion only apply to the component inputs? Or HDMI as well?

If it does apply to the HDMI input, there is absolutely no reason to set your upconverting DVD player to 720p. You should just set it to upconvert to 1080i. Is this correct?
_________________________________________________________

jrock65

I have read about the px50 on the web site link you left. On it they claim some units will display native 720p. A quick call to Panasonic and they claim this unit will do just that without upconversion.

I hope you're right. It's just such an odd quote. If it isn't converting all 720p signals to 1080i, maybe this is a quote left over from manuals of previous Panny models? Maybe it's referring to the need for the STB on those models to convert and output 1080i to the display, since those previous models couldn't accept 720p.

If it does convert 720p to 1080i, that would bother me because it's really a downconversion, not an upconversion, at least as far as vertical resolution is concerned. Since 1080i only delivers 540 vertical lines 60x/sec, vs 720 vertical lines 60x/sec for 720p, it would really be performing the equivalent of a 720p -> 540p -> 768p conversion.

TH-50PX50U (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=93338&catGroupId=24973&modelNo=TH-50PX50U&surfModel=TH-50PX50U&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702) is listed on Panasonic's web site. MSRP $4999.95

GTalbert - Just got a PD50U and upgraded to a progressive DVD player, so I have both 480i and 480p players I can test.

Old DVD player - Sony DVP5550D - 480i - S-Video to Panny
New DVD player - Denon 1910 - 480p - DVI to Panny

The comparison may not be fair because of the S-Video vs. DVI connections but will give it a try anyway. You got my curiosity going.

Will try an report back on Monday if I have a chance to test this weekend.

Day 5 - Still amazed / Awesome set.

One comment I'd like to share. I think the whole discussion about HD vs. ED is relative. Being in the computer industry for 20+ years, I’ll try to describe it from a different perspective.

If I had a 3GHz processor that I was used to and sat down on a 1GHz processor system, it would feel really slow and would be a bummer experience. However if I was used to a P-II systems and sat down on a P-IV system, WHOW! It would feel lightening fast and I would be elated.

I went from a Sony 27" Wega (non-XBR) to the Panny PD50U and WHOW! AMAZING! Relative change from 27" SD - to 40" ED is huge IMHO. Relative change from an ED set to HD set is 10%, maybe 15% at best and IMHO not as big of a WHOW factor.

If I owned a HD set before, I don't I'd be as pleased with the Panny 50U ED as I am now relatively speaking...:-)

Another opinion: I think the “Industry as a whole” is still dominantly in 480i mode. Most TV broadcasts (including OTA/Cable/Satellite) are broadcasting in 480i and today’s DVD standard is 480p. Therefore, IMHO, today an ED set is much more practical and cost effective.

My take is that the “Industry as a whole” won’t be ready for HD for 2 or 3 years years, (50%+ HD TV channels, plus the new HD-DVD maturing). By then, the cost of HD panels will also come down and make it more practical and cost effective and can enjoy high-quality viewing till then

I’m sure many will blast me for my opinion, Bring it on!!!

"If it isn't converting all 720p signals to 1080i, maybe this is a quote left over from manuals of previous Panny models?"

I don't think so, because that language is not in the manual for the PX25, which does not accept 720p at all.

All of this is very confusing.

Brief synopsis of the PX50 manual:

HDMI section: "1080i and 720p signals will be re-formatted for viewing on your plasma display."

STB/DVD (via Component) section: "720p signals will be converted to 1080i format and output to the display."

-----------------

Something of interest to note is that I remember reading from other posters that in the PX25, when it received 720p signals via the internal ATSC tuner or CableCard, the plasma actually stated the signal as 1080i.

At this point, I'm leaning toward the conclusion that in the PX50, all 720p signals, whether via component, HDMI, ATSC tuner, or CableCard, is converted first to 1080i, then to 768p.

Originally posted by stevepas9
...Just got a PD50U and upgraded to a progressive DVD player, so I have both 480i and 480p players I can test.

Old DVD player - Sony DVP5550D - 480i - S-Video to Panny
New DVD player - Denon 1910 - 480p - DVI to Panny

The comparison may not be fair because of the S-Video vs. DVI connections but will give it a try anyway. You got my curiosity going.

... Relative change from 27" SD - to 40" ED is huge IMHO. Relative change from an ED set to HD set is 10%, maybe 15% at best and IMHO not as big of a WHOW factor.

...I’m sure many will blast me for my opinion, Bring it on!!!

Last things first, I think you nailed it with your HD vs ED comments. :cool:

The big jump is from an interlaced to a progressive display. Increased resolution beyond that is undeniably a good thing, but nowhere near as dramatic on a 42" screen as eliminating scan lines. Greater resolution becomes much more important on larger screens, of course.

As for your DVD player tests, if you have the cables, try the component inputs with the Sony instead of S-Video. Panasonic has a reputation (deserved or not, I can't say) of having poor S-Video response, some claiming that even their composite input is better. At least component vs DVI/HDMI would allow both players and processors to do their best.

Originally posted by Macfan424
Last things first, I think you nailed it with your HD vs ED comments. :cool:

At least component vs DVI/HDMI would allow both players and processors to do their best.

True!

And I ditto your HD vs ED comments. I hope I can put it all into action when I whip out my card. There's just something about that 50" panel . . . .

Originally posted by stevepas9
Therefore, IMHO, today an ED set is much more practical and cost effective.

I would have agreed with you 100% when the cost differential between ED and HD was more than $1000, which is why I bought an ED plasma back in the dark ages (early March 2005 :))

But people today now have the choice that under some circumstances, an extra $500 will buy 1024x768 HD.

Barring some indication that the HD is actually *worse* on analog video, which I think is very unlikely, it might make more sense to spring for HD.

Originally posted by jrock65
...At this point, I'm leaning toward the conclusion that in the PX50, all 720p signals, whether via component, HDMI, ATSC tuner, or CableCard, is converted first to 1080i, then to 768p.

Actually, this is common practice on many Plasmas, regardless of brand. Some even list it as a "feature."

My guess is that this lets the manufacturer use the same processing chip for many different sets, saving scaling to the panel's native resolution for the final stage.

Since no plasma exactly matches a 720p signal's 1280x720 resolution, they all have to scale the signal to match the panel. Keeping the input signal as close as possible to the panel's native resolution would have been important with analog sets, but all scaling is done in the digital realm on a plasma, so there is probably little or no visible degradation involved, given the sophisticated algorithms employed.

Originally posted by ccdengr
But people today now have the choice that under some circumstances, an extra $500 will buy 1024x768 HD.



I don't think think this is quite true.... at least not yet. If it was I think I would have sprung for the HD set. Let's compare the PD50U and the upcoming PX50U. I paid under 2k for the PD50U, shipping, tax everything included. I don't think you can get the PX50U for under $2500. The difference may not be $1000 but it's more than $500 and probably closer to $1000.

Originally posted by Macfan424
Since no plasma exactly matches a 720p signal's 1280x720 resolution, they all have to scale the signal to match the panel.


That's a great point, and why not? Why didn't they make sets with 720 instead of 768? Why didn't they start making sets that match the signal?

Wouldn't that have been easier than all this scaling, and all the problems it causes?

Probably a really dumb question.

Cheers.

shane

can someone steer me to an electronics B&M store in and around tysons corner, VA and DC where I can see the 42Px50 in person ?
I will be visiting VA and DC for a week starting this sunday and without my better half, I will have considerable time on my hands....

Originally posted by Macfan424
Actually, this is common practice on many Plasmas, regardless of brand. Some even list it as a "feature."

My guess is that this lets the manufacturer use the same processing chip for many different sets, saving scaling to the panel's native resolution for the final stage.

Since no plasma exactly matches a 720p signal's 1280x720 resolution, they all have to scale the signal to match the panel. Keeping the input signal as close as possible to the panel's native resolution would have been important with analog sets, but all scaling is done in the digital realm on a plasma, so there is probably little or no visible degradation involved, given the sophisticated algorithms employed.

ugh. This really bothers me. I can understand their reasons for doing something like this, because it saves them money. But it's still adding an extra unnecessary conversion which degrades the signal. If it was the other way around, and all 1080i signals were converted to 720p and processed before final conversion to the actual native resolution, that would be a lot better because a) no unnecessary interlacing/de-interlacing steps added to the process, which create more problems than scaling does and b) no loss of vertical resolution on 720p native signals, and not much less loss on horizontal resolution of 1080i signals than you would have converting them directly to 768p. I was excited that Panny was finally supporting 720p but if this is true they're not really supporting 720p beyond allowing the panel to accept 720p signals. This is worse than unnecessary A/D-D/A conversions in my opinion.

Originally posted by empire_of_one
ugh. This really bothers me. I can understand their reasons for doing something like this, because it saves them money. But it's still adding an extra unnecessary conversion which degrades the signal. If it was the other way around, and all 1080i signals were converted to 720p and processed before final conversion to the actual native resolution, that would be a lot better because a) no unnecessary interlacing/de-interlacing steps added to the process, which create more problems than scaling does and b) no loss of vertical resolution on 720p native signals, and not much less loss on horizontal resolution of 1080i signals than you would have converting them directly to 768p. I was excited that Panny was finally supporting 720p but if this is true they're not really supporting 720p beyond allowing the panel to accept 720p signals. This is worse than unnecessary A/D-D/A conversions in my opinion.

I'll just wait and let the PQ do the talking. I am sure it will still beat out any other TV that doesnt go through this conversion (DLP's and such at native 720p).

Originally posted by mister_two
I don't think think this is quite true.... at least not yet. If it was I think I would have sprung for the HD set. Let's compare the PD50U and the upcoming PX50U. I paid under 2k for the PD50U, shipping, tax everything included. I don't think you can get the PX50U for under $2500. The difference may not be $1000 but it's more than $500 and probably closer to $1000.

Fair enough; the difference between the PD50 and the PX50 at the online vendor mentioned a few days ago in this thread is $626 (still closer to $500 than $1000, but...) I think my point is still somewhat valid; the choice between HD and ED is getting harder and harder to make.

Yeah, I agree with ccdengr. Less than a year ago, the msrp difference between the panny's ed and hd panel was 2500 bucks! Now, it's only one thousand dollars. That's two and a half times less than last year. And, that's with certain problems that the px25u had compared to the pd25u. When I started looking at sets back in septermber, hd wouldn't have even been an option for me. However, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the px50u in a few weeks, once I compare the pd50 and the px50.

Originally posted by shane55
That's a great point, and why not? Why didn't they make sets with 720 instead of 768? Why didn't they start making sets that match the signal?

Wouldn't that have been easier than all this scaling, and all the problems it causes?


Maybe because 768 is a better binary number, as is 1024, another common plasma screen resolution. It's might actually be easier to build to a binary value than to an arbitrary one.

Which then begs the question: Why isn't the ATSC signal standard 768p and 1024i? No doubt there are good engineering reasons for those choices, too.

Also, I'm not sure all countries are using 720/1080 as their standard HD signal. If I'm right about that, it probably makes sense to build the panels to a computer friendly configuration and adjust the signals to fit.

Originally posted by swflbatth

I'll just wait and let the PQ do the talking...

Absolutely! :cool:

Too often, we have a tendency to pay too much attention to specs when we should just focus on the end results. ;)

Originally posted by ccdengr
Fair enough; the difference between the PD50 and the PX50 at the online vendor mentioned a few days ago in this thread is $626 (still closer to $500 than $1000, but...) I think my point is still somewhat valid; the choice between HD and ED is getting harder and harder to make.

I have to go back on this thread and check out that discussion. This $626 difference was it from the same store? If you pick the lowest price online vendor for the PX50 and the highest price vendor for the PD50.....I can probably find a PD50 that cost MORE than the PX50 :D

The 37PX50U is now posted on Panasonic's web site. We should soon see these in stores.

Panasonic 37PX50U (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=93337&catGroupId=24973&displayTab=S&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702&surfModel=TH-37PX50U&surfCategory=Plasma%20TVs)

People need to get better informed on scaling and deinterlacing, I feel. It's just not true that scaling is less preferable than A/D --> D/A conversions. The fact is that 99+% of all HD displays use a technique called bobbing on 1080i signals that effectively halves the much-more-important vertical resolution, and yet 1080i looks gorgeous.

And the reality is that 720p is much less used than 1080i overall, so having it as the native resolution is hardly a panacea (note that although the two major networks are split on resolution, UPN, WB, HBO, SHO, TNT, HDNet, HDNet Movies, INHD, UHD, etc. etc. etc. are all 1080i). And having more display pixels is actually a good thing -- all else being equal.

Macfan, rogo, (or any others who want to chime in),

So with the PX50, there is absolutely no reason to set my upconverting DVD player (Panasonic DVD-S77) to upconvert to 720p, right?

It should only be set to upconvert to 1080i?

I'm very interested in the 37. I entered in my zip and got Sam's as one of the carriers. I'd love to be able to buy from a local store, but the prices from online vendors are very attractive.....for all models, even the 500Us.

Check 'em out at the following link: (note the prices from forum sponsor eCost.) :eek:

Check out pricegrabber.com.

[Direct Links Are Not Allowed]

Originally posted by yobob
I wouldn't. I would always prefer square pixels, and when I finally (????) pull the trigger it is going to be one of the brands/models that have them.

But my reason isn't so much the "squareness," as it is the whole package that makes them more preferable than another brand.

I agree... many factors play together to produce a great PQ and pixel sqareness is just one of them!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by iBleedGarnet
[B]I'm very interested in the 37. I entered in my zip and got Sam's as one of the carriers. I'd love to be able to buy from a local store, but the prices from online vendors are very attractive.....for all models, even the 500Us.

Check 'em out at the following link: (note the prices from forum sponsor eCost.) :eek:

i must say ecost's prices look too good to be true on a few models, the 50 inch looks verrrrrry cheap

Dr. Plasma says it can ship the 42" 500U in 24-48 hours. Anyone wanna place an order?:)

That's 24-48 hours after they eventually get them in stock, in . . . . :rolleyes:

500U or did you mean the 50U?

Originally posted by jrock65
Macfan, rogo, (or any others who want to chime in),

So with the PX50, there is absolutely no reason to set my upconverting DVD player (Panasonic DVD-S77) to upconvert to 720p, right?

It should only be set to upconvert to 1080i?

My guess is that you won't see any difference either way, but no, there is no reason to set your DVD player output to anything but 1080i.

If you're like me, you'll probably feel better skipping the additional processing step. Of course, if you really are like me, you won't be happy until you've tried it both ways and seen for yourself. ;)

Originally posted by Chisand
500U or did you mean the 50U?

No, I meant the 500U. That's what's caught my eye. Get your order in now. :cool:

Since no plasma exactly matches a 720p signal's 1280x720 resolution, they all have to scale the signal to match the panel.
The 50" Pioneers are 1280x768 and maybe I'm just a gullible fool but I prefer the 720p output from my cablebox to 1080i output. It matches the horizonal perfectly (1280). But then you get into *slightly* less than square pixels in compromise for this no-need-to-scale so YMMV.

overtime

Picking up my 42px50 in 16 hours and counting!
Tick, Tick, Tick.
Do these have sub-pixel controll or not?
And, "Since the PX50 is the same glass as the 7UY" someone said 2 pages ago. Where was this read at.

How do i post Pics of before "34 sony 2 1/2' deep tube"and after "Th-42px50u"

one more question? Im making custum mount for the pdp. Anyone got a site or something that has a diagram of wall mounts for the th-42px or pd50u. Bolt size, with, hieght ext.

On the Panasonic website they have a dealer stock search and I just did it for the 42PX50 model and it shows near me dealers including Circuit City, Tweeter, Frys, Sears, and Costco. If Costco carries it, that could mean a lower price and no need for an expensive extended warranty! If anyone sees one at a Costco store please report it.

TH-42PX50U arrived 4pm today and has been up and running all night. An upgrade from a 14 year old 27" Sony Trinitron.

Tivo recorded Comcast Cable on S-video looks better than I expected. First show watched was Animal Planet's "Ultimate Zoo" because that's what my 5 year old wanted to watch. It was recorded in "High Quality" mode. We (wife and I) found that "High Quality" mode has too many noticable MPEG artifacts, especially when there's lots of motion. "Best" mode had few noticable artifacts. Watched "Star Trek: Enterprise" in NTSC Standard Def recorded in "Best" mode. I liked the cinematic feel. The only problem was that some of the analog video noise was noticable, but didn't detract. Good thing I replaced hard drive in Tivo so 120GB yields about 40 hours in "Best" mode, down from 64 hours in "High Quality" mode.

We found that "Zoom" mode aspect ratio was preferable to "Just" mode aspect. The warping on "Just" was just a little disorienting. Down side to "Zoom" is that top and bottom get masked a little, although this is adjustable.

Started watching DVD on S-video ("Fools Rush In", wife's pick). DVD player is an old Sony 7000 which is only 480i, no 480p. Picture was amazing. Seriously. I broke open the Component cables and attached them. Watched the rest of the DVD. Picture was absolutely stunning. It had a dimensionality, resolution, and subtlety of color that blew me away. Watching "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" at the moment. We now feel that this is what it's supposed to be like watching movies and TV shows at home.

I prefer Standard color mode to Vivid which seems too vibrant and Cinema (which seems to washed out.

The experience is far better than I expected after being to Fry's, Anderson's, Best Buy, Circuit City and staring at sets for the past few years.

Complaints ...

Programmable remote says us Aux code 102 for Sony Tivo ... this doesn't seem to work. :^(

Still have to experiment with black levels and other adjustments.

Digital Video Essentials (DVE) arrived yesterday but haven't had chance to spend the hour or so to make adjustments.

And, no, there's no obvious way to play with subpixel positioning (unless it's a hidden mode that requires special remote codes to access it).

Disappointed that small Zenith indoor HDTV (UHF) antenna doesn't pick up the San Francisco HDTV (ATSC) signals. I'll have to return antenna and will either have to opt for HDTV and CableCard from Comcast (no UPN / Star Trek Enterprise) or plunk down the $1K for the DirecTV HD Tivo and install a roof antenna for the terrestrial ATSC signals.

There's no PiP (picture in picture) though I really don't care about this.

I'm happy I waited and did not pick some other brand of Plasma.

PX50U is now listed on CC website for MSRP.

Nogits, can you post some pictures? And maybe you could help Sheldon, too. We wanna see "proof." :D

Nogits,
To improve block noise from your Tivo, go to Picture settings -> Other Adjust -> MPEG NR (see page 25 in the manual).


I've noticed that this feature will soften the effect of MPEG macroblocking.

Try it, and let us know what you think.

Originally posted by nogits
TH-42PX50U arrived 4pm today and has been up and running all night. An upgrade from a 14 year old 27" Sony Trinitron.

Tivo recorded Comcast Cable on S-video looks better than I expected. First show watched was Animal Planet's "Ultimate Zoo" because that's what my 5 year old wanted to watch. It was recorded in "High Quality" mode. We (wife and I) found that "High Quality" mode has too many noticable MPEG artifacts, especially when there's lots of motion. "Best" mode had few noticable artifacts. Watched "Star Trek: Enterprise" in NTSC Standard Def recorded in "Best" mode. I liked the cinematic feel. The only problem was that some of the analog video noise was noticable, but didn't detract. Good thing I replaced hard drive in Tivo so 120GB yields about 40 hours in "Best" mode, down from 64 hours in "High Quality" mode.

We found that "Zoom" mode aspect ratio was preferable to "Just" mode aspect. The warping on "Just" was just a little disorienting. Down side to "Zoom" is that top and bottom get masked a little, although this is adjustable.

Started watching DVD on S-video ("Fools Rush In", wife's pick). DVD player is an old Sony 7000 which is only 480i, no 480p. Picture was amazing. Seriously. I broke open the Component cables and attached them. Watched the rest of the DVD. Picture was absolutely stunning. It had a dimensionality, resolution, and subtlety of color that blew me away. Watching "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" at the moment. We now feel that this is what it's supposed to be like watching movies and TV shows at home.

I prefer Standard color mode to Vivid which seems too vibrant and Cinema (which seems to washed out.

The experience is far better than I expected after being to Fry's, Anderson's, Best Buy, Circuit City and staring at sets for the past few years.

Complaints ...

Programmable remote says us Aux code 102 for Sony Tivo ... this doesn't seem to work. :^(

Still have to experiment with black levels and other adjustments.

Digital Video Essentials (DVE) arrived yesterday but haven't had chance to spend the hour or so to make adjustments.

And, no, there's no obvious way to play with subpixel positioning (unless it's a hidden mode that requires special remote codes to access it).

Disappointed that small Zenith indoor HDTV (UHF) antenna doesn't pick up the San Francisco HDTV (ATSC) signals. I'll have to return antenna and will either have to opt for HDTV and CableCard from Comcast (no UPN / Star Trek Enterprise) or plunk down the $1K for the DirecTV HD Tivo and install a roof antenna for the terrestrial ATSC signals.

There's no PiP (picture in picture) though I really don't care about this.

I'm happy I waited and did not pick some other brand of Plasma.

How far are you from SF that you don't pick up any OTA HDTV signals on your Zenith antenna?

Some searching showed me that the 50PHD7UY can be had for about $800 less than the PX50 and $1000 less than the PX500. I'm having a hard time justifying the difference in my mind. Would my eyes see PQ improvement of 20-25%? Since I don't need the tuner, nor even want speakers, unless there is a signicant increase in PQ or someone can convince me that there are other features/improvements to warrant the additional cost, I'm still leaning towards the 7UY. Anyone seen both side by side yet?

search again, the 50PHD7UY and PX50 are being advertized for about the same price

Could someone that has seen a PX50 please confirm that it has a cablecard slot.

I was at a large dealer on Friday who insisted that the PX50 will not have cablecard. He claims that the specs are a missprint and that they have confirmed with Panasonic that it has QAM but no Cablecard slot. He claims they will be getting 150 PX50's on Monday and that he has a 20% deposit on over a hundred of them!

Originally posted by sox404
PX50U is now listed on CC website for MSRP.

Not the 50 incher. Let us all be on the same page with the model numbers. PX50U includes 37, 42 and 50 inchers. The 50PHD7UY is a 50 inch TV.

Originally posted by Sheldon186
Picking up my 42px50 in 16 hours and counting!
Tick, Tick, Tick.
Do these have sub-pixel controll or not?
And, "Since the PX50 is the same glass as the 7UY" someone said 2 pages ago. Where was this read at.

Well, I was gonna say that a trip to the Panasonic website would answer your questions, but not I'm not so sure . . . .

To quote the website description for the 42PX50, "8th Generation Plasma Panel." It doesn't say whether it is glass, or if they are referring to the whole display. I've seen it described both ways. A lot of us are assuming that it refers to the glass, but it wouldn't be the first time if we were wrong. If it is referring to the glass, then there must be something different from the glass in the 7UYs. But if it is referring to the whole panel (PDP), then the glass might be the same but the electronics differences would cause them to call the panel 8th gen.

I've read recent speculation here that "true" 8th generation glass may have the 100,000 hour half-life Panasonic has recently hinted at.

As far as sub-pixel control, it appeared soon after CES in a press release about the inproved PQ on the entire new lineup. BUT, unless I've been blind, I haven't seen it mentioned in the specs of the individual sets on the Pany website.

All of this to say that your questions remain . . . . . . unanswered. :confused:

Just back from CC. They have the 42PX50 on the wall right next to the 42PD50.

I'm looking to purchase my first plasma, have limited technical knowledge, so please excuse me if the following does go into technical details. I watched the typical HD store feed.

To me, the black frame of the PX is more pleasing to the overall look than the silver of the PD. One obvious difference is the SDE on the PD but this fades away at somewhere around 8 - 10 feet.

My first impression of the side-by-side comparison was that the colors on the PX seemed deeper, richer and more pleasing. Then I noticed some artifacts in a darker scene with fast motion on the PX that weren't as noticeable on the PD. But what really troubled me was that picture detail on the PX in darker scenes was not visible where it was visible on the PD and, for that matter, on virtually every other plasma on the same wall. For example, faces in the back of the crowd at a basketball game were not visible on the PX while they were on other sets. The PX was initially set to vivid mode. In standard mode, the situation was even worse. I asked the salesman about this. He agreed with me. He turned up the brightness to max and fiddled with some of the other settings but the situation never improved much.

I've been waiting for this set to be released thinking this may be the one. Now I'm not so sure. I do realize that the set may not have been set up properly in the store. I'm going to try to view it again at another store but it's not yet widely released in my area.

Originally posted by DanP
Not the 50 incher. Let us all be on the same page with the model numbers. PX50U includes 37, 42 and 50 inchers. The 50PHD7UY is a 50 inch TV.

Ergo, use 42PX50U to refer to the 42 inch model... And don't cocmpare that to the 50PHD7UY, a 50-inch model. :D

Originally posted by sox404
To me, the black frame of the PX is more pleasing to the overall look than the silver of the PD.

Is the frame a glossy black, like previous HD Consumer models?


JCPZero

Originally posted by Chisand
Could someone that has seen a PX50 please confirm that it has a cablecard slot.

I was at a large dealer on Friday who insisted that the PX50 will not have cablecard. He claims that the specs are a missprint and that they have confirmed with Panasonic that it has QAM but no Cablecard slot. He claims they will be getting 150 PX50's on Monday and that he has a 20% deposit on over a hundred of them!

I haven't seen it in person yet, but the manual clearly shows a CableCard slot and instructions on using CableCard on the PX50. Either the dealer or the person they spoke with at Panasonic was probably confused between the PD50 and the PX50.

Originally posted by yobob
Well, I was gonna say that a trip to the Panasonic website would answer your questions, but not I'm not so sure . . . .

To quote the website description for the 42PX50, "8th Generation Plasma Panel." It doesn't say whether it is glass, or if they are referring to the whole display. I've seen it described both ways. A lot of us are assuming that it refers to the glass, but it wouldn't be the first time if we were wrong. If it is referring to the glass, then there must be something different from the glass in the 7UYs. But if it is referring to the whole panel (PDP), then the glass might be the same but the electronics differences would cause them to call the panel 8th gen.

I've read recent speculation here that "true" 8th generation glass may have the 100,000 hour half-life Panasonic has recently hinted at.

As far as sub-pixel control, it appeared soon after CES in a press release about the inproved PQ on the entire new lineup. BUT, unless I've been blind, I haven't seen it mentioned in the specs of the individual sets on the Pany website.

All of this to say that your questions remain . . . . . . unanswered. :confused:

I'm not really up on the 7UY so bear with me, but the specs I've seen for the 7UY say it has approx 3.5 billion colors, vs approx. 8.5 billion colors for the PX50. Don't know if the glass has anything to do with that specifically, or if it's just electronics. Also if the PX50 has sub-pixel control (which unfortunately is still a big IF) then that would also perhaps be what makes the PX50 8th gen.

Originally posted by empire_of_one
I'm not really up on the 7UY so bear with me, but the specs I've seen for the 7UY say it has approx 3.5 billion colors, vs approx. 8.5 billion colors for the PX50.

Same displayable colors for the "7UY" and "50/500U" Models:

Full time 3.62 billion (Maximum 8.52 billion in low brightness area).

:)

a very informative thread.

the bottom line on PIP - is it totally gone in all the new Panasonic models? Is there any new model that has it, any 42" EDmodel that has it? I use PIP all the time, does that mean I should be looking at a different manufacturer to get it in a plasma (other then buying the "old" model 25 42" ED unit). I can't believe the marketing decision they made to remove PIP on a $2000+ television.

Is the frame a glossy black, like previous HD Consumer models?


I was just at CC on UWS in NYC and they had the 42px50u up on the wall. It is more of a black matte finish - definitely does not have the shine like the Pioneer/Hitachi models.

They were running The Incredibles over DVD-component and I thought it looked great. Definitely noticeable difference between the px and pd.

Unfortunately, they would not hook up digital cable or any other sources, so I didn't have the chance to see a true HD feed or a regular cable broadcast. Frustrating.

Customer service is sort of a foreign concept in NYC.

For those in NY - the UES store on 86th does not yet have one on display, but the one in Union Square reportedly does. I'm headed there tomorrow to see if I can convince them to try different feeds. Will let you know.

-Cereal

Originally posted by empire_of_one
I'm not really up on the 7UY so bear with me, but the specs I've seen for the 7UY say it has approx 3.5 billion colors, vs approx. 8.5 billion colors for the PX50. Don't know if the glass has anything to do with that specifically, or if it's just electronics. Also if the PX50 has sub-pixel control (which unfortunately is still a big IF) then that would also perhaps be what makes the PX50 8th gen.

Both have exact same colors, 3.5 Billion is typical, 8.5 billion is max... it's stated on their commercial website.

In response to someone's comparison of PX50 and PD50 and the lack of details in dark scenes... it could be the fact of less contrast ratio on PX50 (3000 vs. 4000)

CC on Rte. 17N in Paramus has the 42PX50U on the wall, surrounded by 8 different PDP models/brands (42PD50U is 2 PDPs to the left). Its listed for "full" MSRP.
I too noticed some detail loss by the PX in dark / porly lit scenes vs. the PD but it had a bit more color punch and depth than all other panels on the wall (feed was component, store video loop) but in all fairness there was no way to make a fair assessment as I was not allowed to play with the remote (nor that of the other panels as well) so I'll just have to defer and rely a bit more on AVS members' opinions when comparing properly calibrated sets.
The 37PX50U and 50PX50U are both in stock (at "full" MSRP) and will be on the floor by Wed.
I will be finally buying a plasma by the end of May and it will come down to the Panny 50PX50U and Pio 5050HD.... just can't wait to see them side by side.

Sorry to change the subject but....
My wife and I just returned from CC where they finally had the sammy 4232 and PD50 on display right next to each other, and I have to agree with an earlier post that the yellows displayed on the PD50 showed up neon green! This apparent during their INHD feed when yellow bus goes by in the background as someone is being interviewed and it stands out as much as one of those newer neon green road signs. How do I know its not supposed to be that color? because every other plasma in the showroom showed it as yellow. I even went to the BB across the street, and saw the same thing! This really bums me out because the detail and depth of the PD50 is decidedly greater than all the other ed's, but I know that green is gonna bug the heck out of me at home during football and basketball games.

No one else has seen this? we even tried to play with the color settings, but they only offer a few adjustments, and we couldn't get a good yellow out of it. In contrast, the sammy had LOTS of color adjustments, I think it was separate adjustments for red, blue, green, yellow and magenta, I wish Panasonic had something similar.

any thoughts beside the screens were not calibrated?

Originally posted by Chisand
Could someone that has seen a PX50 please confirm that it has a cablecard slot.

I was at a large dealer on Friday who insisted that the PX50 will not have cablecard. He claims that the specs are a missprint and that they have confirmed with Panasonic that it has QAM but no Cablecard slot. He claims they will be getting 150 PX50's on Monday and that he has a 20% deposit on over a hundred of them!

The PD50 (EDTV) does not have the CableCard slot, but the PX50 definitely does. I know because my PX50 has a slot labeled CableCard. It is not a misprint.

I ordered the Comcast CableCard today and it will be installed on Tuesday.

However, I noticed that even without the CableCard, I can pick up all of the HDTV channels and the unencrypted digital cable channels with the built in QAM receiver. Makes me wonder why I'm going to pay for the CableCard and $5 per month extra. :^)

However, what I knoticed is that all of the digital and HDTV channels are on very odd .x channels. For instance, Comcast says I should tune to channel 707 for Channel 7 but I tune to channel 7.1 on the Panny. INHD is channel 719 but Panny says it is 105.2.

Maybe the CableCard will map the channel tuning. We'll see. Does anyone in the SF Bay area have any clues about what channels are assigned to what encodings?

In contrast, the sammy had LOTS of color adjustments, I think it was separate adjustments for red, blue, green, yellow and magenta, I wish Panasonic had something similar.

I think (hope) Panasonic has that too, but only in the service menu. Why Panasonic makes these RGB settings so unaccessible i can't understand, because the screen defenitely needs some adjustments.

Btw, i found out that the USA models do have HDMI, here in Europe it doesn't. :mad: :mad: :confused:

Well, after hearing reports of PX50U sightings elsewhere, I stopped by the neighbourhood CC while I was out today, and indeed they did have to 42PX50U, occupying the spot on their plasma wall where the 42PX25U formerly resided (I saw it moved over to some nearby shelves with other "closeout" items). This particular CC places all their plasmas on one wall, two rows high, but the spot where the PX50U resides is a special display off to one side on the corner, meaning to do direct comparisons I had to walk back and forth between the corner and the main plasma wall. Some of the other plasmas on the wall include the Pio 5050HD, the 42PD50U, the Sony XS955 50", the 42" Hitachi, and the Samsung 50" HD (not the upcoming model). The Pio was hung directly below the 42PD50U, but those two were hung on the far side of the wall from the PX50U, hence the need for walking back and forth.

First impression was, shadow details were terrible. Where other plasmas, particularly the Pio, showed details in the black areas, the Panny was one big black blob. However, this was true of both the PD50U and the PX50U. So the first thing I did was pick up the PX50 remote and start adjusting settings. The settings hadn't been touched, it was in Vivid mode with all settings at their default. I changed to Standard mode, contrast was 20 but I left it there since the store was so bright. I jacked up brightness to the 10-15 range (max of 30), reduced sharpness from +15 to +5, and dialed down the color setting from 0 to -6. This made a huge difference. Shadow details became visible again (though never quite as apparent as the Pio). I went back over and applied the same settings to the PD50 and it also improved immensely. The lesson being, the OTB settings on these sets are poor and require some adjustment to get a reasonably good PQ. In order to have a somewhat reasonable comparison, I chose the Pio and went in and adjusted it too. I didn't do any major calibration, just enough playing around to get the TV looking reasonably good (in a store environment). For the record, the Pio was CRANKED. Picture/contrast and brightness were both nearly maxed (no wonder those shadow details were showing up so well). I brought contrast back to midway, lowered brightness enough to still leave those shadows intact, and turned off almost all of the digital processing like NR (everything was turned on). I left one setting on on the Pio, can't remember the exact name but the description said it enhanced bright/dark contrast and it seemed to give the picture more pop, at least in the showroom. After changing the settings, I could look back and forth between the Pio and the PD50 above it, and despite the bright environment, blacks on the PD50 looked noticably deeper than the Pio. The Pio looked somewhat washed out in comparison, and the Panny just had more depth. Blacks on the PX50 looked just as good. I couldn't A/B as easily due to the PX50's location off to the side, but walking back and forth between it and the PD50, I didn't notice any obvious difference in blacks or shadow detail.

So overall, the PD/PX50s definitely a big advantage for black level. The Pio slightly better for shadow detail, and since Brightness has to be cranked up a bit on the PX50 for shadow detail to become apparent, the headroom for that setting is a bit limited. As a sidenote, I went into the advanced settings on the Panny's and when I changed Black Level from Light to Dark, the shadow details got washed out again, so I changed them back to Light. Do any PD50U owners notice this? What do you leave your Brightness and Black Level set to?

The color setting made a huge difference. The colors on virtually every other set there were way out of whack, and the Panny's colors initially were too, though not as bad as the other sets. I have to assume those other sets, like the Pannys, were not set up well, but just hung up on the wall in the manufacturer's default torch mode. I played with color til I found what looked to be the sweet spot of just enough color saturation without unnatural bleeding/blooming. Around -6 I felt like I hit just the right balance, and once I looked around the difference was striking. Whereas most of the other sets had that dreaded day-glo quality in greens and purples and blues, the Panny looked very natural without losing the vibrancy of the colors. Even the Pio, to my eyes, did not look as good color-wise. The Panny had the best, most realistic colors of all the plasmas on the wall, but I didn't bother with the settings on the others so maybe they could have been adjusted to come closer to the PX50.

Some other things I noticed. The Pio display was noticably noisy, even after dropping the brightness. Neither Panny had much noticable noise. The feed was satellite HD, presumably in 1080i. At first they were showing a nature program of some sort, which I used for adjusting the settings. This was a really good feed, because it would linger on the same scene for a couple minutes at a time, allowing me enough time to go back and forth between the PX50 and other sets and still view the same scene. Later they turned it to ESPN-HD. All the scores and the ticker gave me a good chance to check for SDE and jaggies on text. Those bright white letters in the ticker are perfect for judging SDE, I just walk backwards until the dots all merge together to form a letter. I guess I must be more sensitive to SDE than some other people here, on the 42PX50U, it took 4-5 feet for the SDE to completely disappear on text, on the 42PD50U it was closer to 8-9 feet. Jaggies were definitely more noticable on the PD50 on text, even past the 8-9 feet distance. I also checked for clayface on the broadcasters. I didn't notice any on either set, except for one guy who looked like he had probably had some pancake makeup applied. There was also a guest on who had a tweed coat, with black and light tan threads, which produced a noticable moire effect on all sets. It stood out much more on the PD50 than the PX50 though, presumable due to the down-rezzing of the HD broadcast to ED resolution. The bezel is definitely matte black, not reflective at all. Overall glare on the PX50 is no better or worse than any other plasma there (though much less glare than the glossy bezel of the Pio).

It looks like the PX50 is a winner. Once adjusted, it definitely seemed to outshine the other displays on their wall. As for the difference between the PD50, I don't think there's much with regard to colors and black levels. The differences are what you'd expect: less SDE, more detail when sitting closely enough on HD, and the extra features like CableCard. Whether that's worth the extra $1K is up to you; both sets were selling for MSRP. Since I'm looking for a 50-incher, it's a moot point for me. Which brings me to the most exciting part of my day:

When I had first gotten to the plasma display wall, I noticed a spot down in the left corner, right next to the 5050, that was empty. I didn't give it much thought, and headed straight for the 42PX50U. However, as I was getting ready to leave, I looked over at the RPTV part of the salesfloor right next to the plasma wall, and noticed a big plasma sitting there on the floor, just a few feet from that empty spot. Then I noticed it was grey with a black bezel, and the stand looked mighty familiar. It was definitely a Panny; I peeked around the back and saw those glorious letters and numbers: TH-50PX50U. I was afraid I might see a 25U, but no, double-checked and it WAS the 50U 50-incher, and obviously it was destined for that spot on the wall next to the 5050. I was very excited to see that CC had this model in stock, since I wasn't expecting any 50PX50Us to be in the stores for a few weeks at least. Sadly I couldn't see it in action, they'd just taken it out of the box and had to get it up on the wall before it could be hooked up. But I was able to check out the back of the panel, and yes, it DOES have CableCard. I'll definitely be back sometime this week to check it out, and it will be right next to the Pio which will be great for a side-by-side comparison. If it looks as good as the 42PX50, but bigger, I might just have one in my home by next weekend.

nice review empire.

i too went over to cc today to check out the flat panel wall to do my own research. goal was to compare 42PD50 and 42PX50. my cc had all the usual suspects pio, sam, sony, but the pd and px were clearly in a league of their own (if you don't count the rockin' sharp aquos, but i'm looking for a bargain here).

not knowing if or how the setting were adjusted, the PD50 was the king of the display area. clean, crisp, deep and detailed. the PX50 exhibited some very peculiar double/shadowed images so i think there had to be some cable issues as the PD50 was virutally flawless.

i'm waiting for the PX50 owners (or someone who's seen properly adjusted sets) to tell me the PX50 is better, but i'm just not convinced. from what i gather from past posts, the px is 'future proofed' but i want at least 5 years and notch picture quality... can the PX50 deliver above and beyond the PD50?