To consolidate the info we have so far...
http://trackiepro.com/panny/pannymodelsum.JPG

http://www.trackiepro.com/panny/42PD50.jpg
http://www.trackiepro.com/panny/42PX50.jpg
http://www.trackiepro.com/panny/42PX500.jpg

LAS VEGAS, NV (January 5, 2005) - Panasonic, the leader in high definition and plasma TV, once again demonstrates its commitment to exceed expectations with its new line of plasma displays. The company is introducing six digital models for 2005, all with integrated ATSC1/NTSC/QAM tuners and all featuring the latest plasma panel technology for unsurpassed performance.

"Panasonic is escalating plasma panel development to meet the remarkable growth the market is experiencing," said Andrew Nelkin, Vice President, Panasonic Display Group. "We are committed to continually providing the very best for our consumers, in technology, performance and value. All of our plasma displays are produced solely by Panasonic. From R & D to the manufacturing of panels and electronics to control of the production process, Panasonic is setting the benchmark from start to finish."

The new line builds upon the superior quality and reputation Panasonic has established in the flat-panel display arena with technologies such as sub-pixel control, which individually addresses the red, green and blue charges within one pixel, resulting in a 30% increase in horizontal resolution over previous models. The new panels are capable of reproducing a maximum of 8.6 billion colors, with thousands of gradations within the red, green and blue spectra, and the highest contrast ratio in the industry, to render an incredibly vivid picture with enhanced detail in dark scenes. Further advancements have been made in optimizing color purity with 3D color processing, and in ensuring outstanding picture quality in a wide range of ambient lighting conditions.

"More and more high-definition programming is becoming available over the air, on cable, and via satellite," said Nelkin. "This year's plasma sets employ the best new technologies to enhance picture quality beyond conventional standards, to realize the true HD dream."

---------------------------

Confirmed! The new plasmas are 8th generation panels.

---------------------------

TH-50PX500U HDTV 720p
50" diagonal - MSRP - $5999

TH-42PX500U HDTV 720p
42" diagonal - MSRP - $4499

TH-50PX50U HDTV 720p
50" diagonal - MSRP - $5499

TH-42PX50U HDTV 720p
42" diagonal - MSRP - $3499

TH-42PD50U EDTV 480p - -NO CABLECARD and NO PIP.
42" diagonal - MSRP - $2499

TH-37PX50U HDTV 720p
37" diagonal - MSRP - $3???




Manual for the 42PD50U is available at http://service.us.panasonic.com/operman/ (maybe other manuals are coming soon?):D

any idea on the prices on these, and i mean street prices not msrp. i just got my income tax check and its buring a hole in my pocket. i was going to get the current panny consumer ed model...but if this is better technology for less i will wait a little... i noticed the newer panny ed model doesnt have cablecard slot or is this a misprint?

There were some speculative MSRP prices from another site posted in the original CES thread... try a search. Summary: cheaper.

Man, every time I see the PD50 I want to cry. :( Could they not have put even a narrow grey or black bezel?? All that silver just looks so... cheap. I don't mind the PX50 or PX500 at all. Looks like the same cabinet as the PX50; maybe I could switch the surround when nobody's looking? ;)

Also mourning the loss of the 37 ED, if indeed it's gone from the lineup; especially as I'm about to move, probably to a condo with much smaller rooms.

i dont think it has that cheap plastic silver you see on some sets, i think from the photo it has that shiny metal look, something like the samsung dlp sets have. if looks anything like the samsungs i think it will look great with my silver denon 3805 reciever and 3910 dvd player... did anyone see these at the show that can tell how they really look physically...ps the black bezel does look nice...

Originally posted by PerryU
There were some speculative MSRP prices from another site posted in the original CES thread... try a search. Summary: cheaper.



Here is a link to post #45 of the Panasonic CES Teaser thread - with some estimated MSRPs from 16nine dot com:

Post #45 Panasonic CES Teaser (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4931904#post4931904)

Here is a direct quote from 16nine dot com:

"The Panasonic TH-42PX500U and TH-50PX500U will carry unofficial list prices of US$4500 and US$5500, respectively"

JCPZero

Hm, wonder if they'll price the 50PX50 at $5000, or $500 less than the 50PX500. That'll be awesome.

what about the ed model, i wonder by how much they will be lowered... did anyone see them at the ces show, maybe took some pics...

I'm hoping the new 42" ED has memory for settings on each input in better implementation than the current model. Other than that it's a go (if I try to like the silver).

any more info on these new sets? like demisions, price and such?

so what is everyones opinion on this?

keep the TH-42PD25U I bought 2 weeks ago?

or

return it and wait for the new TH-42PD50U?

will the new model have all the features of the old one?
cable card, pc imput, sd??

I love my set, but feel that I bought at the worst time with new models comming out very soon

I know next to nothing about all this stuff

I need help!

I don't think the PD50 and PX50 have PC input, PC slot, or SD memory slot. But they both have the CableCard.

I would take it back, if it were me. The way I look at it, when the new models start to come out, the older one's will drop in price. So worst case is you get a better deal.

Just keep in mind...the cycle when the new model comes out is usually a significant drop in price in the older model, but then they eventually clear out. Don't get greedy and keep waiting for additional drops, or there won't be any left.

TH-42PD50U

Summary of Dimentions provided in this post:

Panny 42pd50u Availability Date Confirmed at Best Buy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5248583#post5248583)

42" W
3.8" D
27.6" H
72 pounds


JCPZero

MSRP listings here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5224582#post5224582

Any size dimensions on the 50px50u or 500u?

On a lark, I decided to search for the TH-42PD50U and TH-37PX50U on Amazon. As of February 28, they are listed, though they are listed as "not stocked or discontinued." As such, there's no price.

Interestingly, if you add them to your wish list, you'll get a price. The 42 is just a bit below what's been advertised as its MSRP. The 37, though, is quite a bit lower than what's been quoted. It makes me wonder if the MSRP on the 37 is lower than we expect (which would explain the disappearane of the ED model). Of course, it could also mean that Amazon has no real pricing info and is just guessing.

TH-42PM50 (New Model)
SRP $1,999.95
Available S-9
Standard Features Plus
• 42” 16:9 Diagonal Screen
• 852x480 Resolution
• Up to 5000:1 Contrast Ratio
• Aspect Ratio Control
• Optical Digital Audio Out
• Director Lighted Home Theater Remote
I'd be looking at a PM model for sure, i dont care about cable card slots or hd tuners.
Probably sell them at costco's for 1799 like the akai's

Originally posted by Bud-man
TH-42PM50 (New Model)
SRP $1,999.95
Available S-9
Standard Features Plus
• Up to 5000:1 Contrast Ratio
•


5000:1 contrast ratio?

That's new.

I wonder what's going on there? Increased brightness? (Black levels likely the same).

The TH-42PM50 wasn't included in the early Panasonic news releases. Does anyone know where it came from? Are we sure it is going to be available here? I don't see any mention of sub-pixel control.

The reason I ask is that the 37"ED is posted on the Pany site in Germany, but apparently won't be available here.

How come their cheapest model has the best contrast ratio of any of their sets?

MSRP listings here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...582#post5224582

I got that info from the above link, i did a search on google for the PM and theres a lot of japenese sites including panasonic that lists it, i'd like to see there spec's.

Japanese sites. Hmmmmmm . . .

The question remains: Will it be available in the US?

When I did a Google, almost all the sites were .jp urls. When I did a search on the US Panasonic site it came back negative (I know, I know, THAT doesn't mean much).

Hoping.

Well being a japenese company they do release and test there models way before they sell to us...........

Yup! And I'm still gonna hope! :)

Hey all,

I have called 2 BB's in the Dublin OH area. Neither of them had any information on the new TH-42PD50U. They said that without a SKU number, they could not find out when the new TH-42PD50U would be coming in, what the MSRP would be or if there was a discount for pre ordering.

Does anyone know what the SKU for BB is? What type of discount are we talking about.

Cheers,

Matt

I doubt there will be any B&M chain discount for the first few weeks (months?) - just because it is a new release. Hope I'm wrong.

On-line forum sponsors, on the other hand, might offer some. Keep your eyes peeled for the AVS special offers. Membership has its bennies. :D

Should i buy the costco's PA or wait a few months and hopefully they will have the '05's?, i dont know how long i can take watching this akai!!!
I figure i could buy it now and then after 6 months take it back if the new models pan out.

Costco's PAs (if you're talking about the Panny PA25), seem like they might be a stock sell-off, as the new model is due out in a couple weeks.

If the same situation should repeat itself, and that is really anybody's guess, I think it might be more than just a few weeks before they have the new models. But you'll see them in the B&Ms and forum sponsor sites.

In my experience, more than 75% of the people who work in the Home Theater department of Best Buy don't really know how to use their computer system all that well. Most cannot find the new Panny, even though it's on their system. In case anyone wants to go to their local BB to have them pull it up, the SKU is 7006134. With that number, anyone should be able to pull it up. It's on sale currently, and has been since Sunday. I'm not sure if that's only for this week or what. Hope that helps some of you out.

Mangelo

Thanks Mangelo. They do have that SKU number and were able to give me a price. Sale is on at BB until 3/5/05.

Cheers,

Matt

I just called BB and got the same info.

My question is: Why if the new model will be shipped on 3/22 is there not more info available?

There seems to be genuine confusion if this new model will have Cable-Card or not (though I would think that it definitely would).

-UC

Originally posted by matwags
Thanks Mangelo. They do have that SKU number and were able to give me a price. Sale is on at BB until 3/5/05.

Cheers,

Matt

I stand corrected! Hopefully this is a good sign. :cool:

Mangelo, do you happen to know the SKU for the TH-37PX50U (and whether it is also available / on sale)?

thanks!

It was AdilM ("Installer / Dealer in NC") that posted that PM50 info here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5224582#post5224582), part of a blurb he says he got from Panasonic around CES time. As he says himself, "don't crucify me if it's wrong!".

Available S-9, i.e. September; guess we'll have to wait and see.

I remember now . . .

A quick comparison between the PM and the PD below it show NO bullets in common. I wonder what all that means.

I guess we wait. :(

I email Panasonic about the specs of the 37 inch pd50u about 2 weeks ago. I finally got their response today and they said

"Thank you for your inquiry. The information that you have made a
request for is not yet available.

Thank You,
Panasonic Consumer Support"

I have already moved on and got the Sharp Aquos.

All the contrast ratio numbers are imaginary--Panasonic had to say 5000:1 to say that they were competitive with LG/Zenith. Who's really the best? Probably Panasonic by a hair but not at 5000:1 though LG/Zenith does have its believers.

goman,

Wow, you actually got a response! Well, sort of.

Maybe there's hope for me. I e-mailed them as well asking why, if there is going to be a 37" ED in Germany we can't have one here also.

I'm taking bets as to whether I get the same no-response response.

But I've been paralyzed so long a while more won't matter. I'm going to wait and see. :)

Originally posted by yobob
The TH-42PM50 wasn't included in the early Panasonic news releases. Does anyone know where it came from? Are we sure it is going to be available here? I don't see any mention of sub-pixel control.


That's a typo.

The TH-42PM50 is an older Japanese Model.

Does anyone know if the new Panasonic's (in particular the 42PX50U) will accept a 720 input, so that someone can watch ABC HD and other broadcast that are being feed in 720?
Or can you still view these programs without having an input that accepts 720 signals? Would you just switch to viewing it in 1080i? I am not this familiar with plasma as I do not own one at this time. I know the Pioneer accepts 720 signals, just wanted to make sure if I go the Panasonic route I could view certain programs.
If someone could clear this up for me I would appreciate any information in regards to the 720 input or being able to view programs without it.
Thanks
Jeff

"Does anyone know if the new Panasonic's (in particular the 42PX50U) will accept a 720 input, so that someone can watch ABC HD and other broadcast that are being feed in 720?"

Based on all the Press Releases it is my understanding that Panasonic has rectified this issue- yes it will now accept 720 signals via component, HDMI, etc.

Dave

Originally posted by cheridave
"Does anyone know if the new Panasonic's (in particular the 42PX50U) will accept a 720 input, so that someone can watch ABC HD and other broadcast that are being feed in 720?"

Based on all the Press Releases it is my understanding that Panasonic has rectified this issue- yes it will now accept 720 signals via component, HDMI, etc.

Dave

It only took them like 10 years to do it.

Originally posted by Artwood
All the contrast ratio numbers are imaginary--Panasonic had to say 5000:1 to say that they were competitive with LG/Zenith. Who's really the best? Probably Panasonic by a hair but not at 5000:1 though LG/Zenith does have its believers. These spec’s provided by "westa6969" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=508083&highlight=hpr5072) tout a contrast ratio of 10,000:1 for Samsung’s new 2005 HP-R5072 (http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,2393,l=&s=26812&a=142327&po=5,00.asp) PDP.

ExtremeTech.com (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0%2C1558%2C1750013%2C00.asp) listed the HP-R5072 among “The most impressive HD displays at CES (which) included some great values.”

“Samsung's 50-inch "HP-R5072" impressed me with its 12-bit processing (claiming 68.7 billion colors) as well as improved contrast and brightness. Luscious indeed, this desirable display will be available in April for $6,999 (MSRP).”

It will be interesting to see how this panel measures up against the new Panasonic TH-50PX50/500U series PDPs.

Samsung..haha.....see if they can get there "clayface" issue fixed first........
I have a Akai 2498ED1 and its a rebadged SP-P4231 and the posterization and clayface artifacts are horrible,driving me nuts figuring how to fix it thru the service menu....not much luck so far.
It's made in mexico and i read here that the new panny's are made there too, which prob is at the same factory, just added a different assembly line.
There's only a handful of plasma factory's in the world.
So what i'm seeing from mexico i'm not impressed, so the current made in japan panny's might be the best.
Time will tell and all the "good" ones might be gone.

Originally posted by Bud-man
Samsung..haha.....see if they can get there "clayface" issue fixed first........
I have a Akai 2498ED1 and its a rebadged SP-P4231 and the posterization and clayface artifacts are horrible,driving me nuts figuring how to fix it thru the service menu....not much luck so far.
It's made in mexico and i read here that the new panny's are made there too, which prob is at the same factory, just added a different assembly line.
There's only a handful of plasma factory's in the world.
So what i'm seeing from mexico i'm not impressed, so the current made in japan panny's might be the best.
Time will tell and all the "good" ones might be gone. I agree, to this point, Samsung PDPs have not received high marks. But you might think (perhaps erroneously so) after building PDPs this long and with an MSRP in the $5K+ range... Samsung would eventually get it right. As you said only time will tell. The good news is some B&M store should have either the 4272 or 5072 on display, so we will be able to see both the Samsung and the Panasonic PX50/500U panels, perhaps side-by-side. While we can't draw any conclusions until we see these panels, at least the specs for the Samsung are impressive and it does look nice in the picture. (http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,2393,l=&s=26812&a=142327&po=5,00.asp)

ExtremeTech.com viewed this panel at CES 2005 and gave it a favorable rating.

Any information on 37" speaker placement...and width??

Originally posted by jrock65
It only took them like 10 years to do it.

It probably took their marketing people that long to persuade their manufacturing executives to spend money to fix something that didn't really need to be fixed.

Panasonic's 720p "problem" applies only to STB's that output 720p signals, but not 1080i. Are there any?

As I understand it, most, if not all, external devices produce either output depending upon how they are set, converting one format to the other as necessary. Once inside the TV's circuity, all signals — 480, 720 or 1080 — have to be scaled to match the display's native resolution, which, on a plasma screen, doesn't exactly match either HDTV standard. If sales brochures are to be believed, it's not uncommon for other sets to convert all signals to 1080 prior to internal processing.

I suppose it could be argued that 720 to 768 involves less conversion than 1080 to 768, but it's doubtful that the difference is visible to the naked eye, especially since Panasonic engineers undoubtedly optimized their circuitry for 1080 to 768 (or 480 for ED) scaling.

As for watching ABC and Fox 720p broadcasts, I've been enjoying them on my Panasonic TH-42PD25U since the moment I plugged it in.

"Panasonic's 720p "problem" applies only to STB's that output 720p signals, but not 1080i. Are there any?"

I do not have my plasma TV yet so I really shouldn't be discussing any of these issues, but I think Comcast in my area was putting out 720p signals. This may not be the case any more but I know alot of panny ED people where having problems with this.

Which does a better job of scaling - the TV or a STB? If the TV, then it is better to have the 720P input and set the STB to passthrough. Also for Xbox users the 720P input is a plus.

JCPZero

It appears that Panasonic is no longer shipping the 50PX25. Hopefully, that means that the 50PX50 is coming in EARLY april, although that is probably wishful thinking.

Thanks to new forum member Nogits in this post:

Panasonic now has the owner's manual for TH-42PD50U available online in PDF. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5290502#post5290502)

See if this link works directly to the PDF:

TH42PD50U PDF (http://service.us.panasonic.com/operman/findmanual.aspx?model=TH42PD50U)

Now I am off to do some PDF manual reading!

JCPZero

Here are some comments on the TH-42PD50U pdf manual:

720P support on HDMI and component inputs
No Cablecard slot
Aspect cannot be changed on HD (720p/1080i)
All inputs on rear - none in front

Input specific picture settings? - Does not look good. It appears to be the same as the 25U. Seems you have to use the picture mode trick (Vivid, Standard or Cinema).


JCPZero

No Antenna B
Black Level Control
MPEG NR
Automatic Program review in Recall - Shows current program being viewed; nice
Color Management?
Zoom Adjust - Adjusts vertical size and position

Nice! Thanks for sharing that the manual is available. I am off to do some reading =)

Nothing is free, I guess. Panasonic really cut corner in this case to lower the price on the PD50U.

Among my favorite features which had been removed: front/side AV input for camcorder. PIP (good for watching 2 football games at the same time). Are this really equal tlo $500 diff in MSRP?

Let's hope the new PQ is worth it. I got turned off by this set already.

Does anyone know for sure if the new PX50/500 models plasmas will have HD aspect ratio control i.e. zoom on HD 4:3 letterbox or 2.35:1 widescreen, so it fills the entire display?

Unfortunately I believe it is unlikely as the service manual for the new TH42PD50U shows no aspect control for HD is available :(

I am starting to think the only way to get the Panasonic picture with the features I want is to combine a TH50PHD7UY with a DVDO Iscan HD+.

Panasonic best picture, poorest features

When I was in BB this past weekend, their computer showed one TH-42PD50U in the Birmingham, AL warehouse...perhaps we have a member in Birmingham that has seen it or might be able to check it out for us???

I'll second that!

With all the "losses" in the new 42ED, the only thing that might prove to be a redeeming quality is if it turns out to have the sub-pixel control with a fantastic PQ.

Aspect ratio for HD?

From what I understand, it takes some serious signal processing to do that (translation : cost) . Even stand alone set top box currently on market cannot do that.

On the other hand, movie directors definitely do not want us to do that as they spend a lot time to frame their shots.

I have to admit, I am not a big fan of 2.35:1 aspect ratio. I do not really understand the extra footage viewers will benefit from 2.35 as compared to 1.85. The attention is mostly on the center of the screen anyway.

Why don't they shoot movie all in 1.85:1, :-)

Originally posted by plasma_user

Why don't they shoot movie all in 1.85:1, :-) [/B]

Or why not issue DVD's "Pan and Scanned" at 1.85:1 (instead of 2.35:1) like they do 1.33:1?

I don't know why, but letterbox bars on my 16:9 screen annoy me, even though they never did on my 4:3 screen.

panasonic cut so many corners on this new set, i wont be suprized if they cut corners on pic quality also, from what i understand the commercial hd and onyx use this subpixel technology and those are 7th gen glass so i dont think its that ground breaking for the pd50u 8th gen if it is truly 8th gen....i am still in shock about the cable card slot not being included, i am wondering if maybe its a misprint or maybe the slot was added after the manual was written, i remember reading something like this happened with the pioneers and the hdmi features were not in the manual. i still cant believe panasonic did this....

Originally posted by Macfan424
It probably took their marketing people that long to persuade their manufacturing executives to spend money to fix something that didn't really need to be fixed.

Panasonic's 720p "problem" applies only to STB's that output 720p signals, but not 1080i. Are there any?

As I understand it, most, if not all, external devices produce either output depending upon how they are set, converting one format to the other as necessary. Once inside the TV's circuity, all signals — 480, 720 or 1080 — have to be scaled to match the display's native resolution, which, on a plasma screen, doesn't exactly match either HDTV standard. If sales brochures are to be believed, it's not uncommon for other sets to convert all signals to 1080 prior to internal processing.

I suppose it could be argued that 720 to 768 involves less conversion than 1080 to 768, but it's doubtful that the difference is visible to the naked eye, especially since Panasonic engineers undoubtedly optimized their circuitry for 1080 to 768 (or 480 for ED) scaling.


Couldn't diagree more. It needed to be fixed.

Watching ABC from an external STB would involve a 720p->1080i->768p conversion instead of a 720p->768p conversion. The latter is simply a matter of uprezzing the image, the former involves interlacing, uprezzing, deinterlacing and downrezzing. Not only that, some of the processing will have to take place in the external STB which (if it is a cable box) may not be very good at it.

Originally posted by david8613
i am wondering if maybe its a misprint or maybe the slot was added after the manual was written, i remember reading something like this happened with the pioneers and the hdmi features were not in the manual.

Hmmmm . . . wouldn't be the first time I guess.

Should we start a new rumor about the cable card? :cool:

David8613---where did you hear that the current Onyx and commercial versions already have the subpixel control?! If that is true then for some people there is little reason to wait for the new models. In terms of PQ improvement (Rather than things like cable card slot and other conveniences), this subpixel control thing that apparently enhances contrast by 30% is what caught a lot of peoples attention...I thought this was a new gizmo, but you seem to indicate it is already out on some models. More info?

Onyx does have sub-pixel control (you can read about it on the Panasonic website), but I believe the current commercial 7UYs don't.

Sub-pixel control is supposed to enhance perceived resolution, not contrast.

So, if the Onyx has sub-pixel control already, anyone report any perceived improvement in PQ? Glancing through reviews I don't recall many oohs and ahs about it. Indeed, many on this forum I think have commented that they can't see a difference in PQ between the onyx and non-onyx displays (especially the commercial version, which is the same generation glass, I believe). Hmmm, this leaves me wondering if the subpixel control thing is mostly hype.

This is already on the Onyx.

7th Generation Panel
Sub-Pixel Controller
2048 Shades of Gradation
Over 8.58 Billion Colors
Color Purity Optimizer
Motion Pattern Noise Reduction
Super Real Gamma Circuit

I bet ;) the Onyx will get the 8th gen panels and new electronics and processing before the regular lineup too. Is it worth the price increase? You decide.

IMO, Panasonic has just lost a lot of potential sales.

There were a lot of us hoping the 42ED with 8th gen glass and sub-pixel control would make up for their not offering a 37ED. I think we have been let down.

FWIW

Originally posted by ADGrant
Couldn't diagree more. It needed to be fixed.

Watching ABC from an external STB would involve a 720p->1080i->768p conversion instead of a 720p->768p conversion. The latter is simply a matter of uprezzing the image, the former involves interlacing, uprezzing, deinterlacing and downrezzing. Not only that, some of the processing will have to take place in the external STB which (if it is a cable box) may not be very good at it.

The only point of my initial comment was to suggest Panasonic may have had a valid reason for their choice. I’m not trying to engage in a heavy debate and they certainly don’t need me to defend them. However, before the 50 series they did not seem prone to cutting corners on anything important.

As a purist at heart, I agree in principle with everything you say, I’m just not sure it’s as straight forward as that. There is a lot of internal signal processing in these sets and it seems feasible that it may be more efficient to produce a circuit that does it all in in one realm, so the multiple conversions we’d like to avoid may be going on anyway. Some manufacturers’ brochures even make a “feature” out of converting all signals to 1080 prior to processing.

Anyway, page 13 of PD50U manual mentions 720p as part of its STB/DVD capability (as well as 480i which was not listed in the PD25U manual either), then adds this arcane entry: “Note: 720p signals will be converted to 1080i format and output to the display.” (sic)

The same reference on page 15 of the PD25U manual reads: “Note: 1080i signals will be re-formatted to view on your plasma display.”

Not that this necessarily means anything, it could even be a misprint or something lost in translation, but...

I wonder about that as well, since the Panny Plasma group told me it included the CableCard. I guess we will have to just wait and see!

Originally posted by david8613
panasonic cut so many corners on this new set, i wont be suprized if they cut corners on pic quality also, from what i understand the commercial hd and onyx use this subpixel technology and those are 7th gen glass so i dont think its that ground breaking for the pd50u 8th gen if it is truly 8th gen....i am still in shock about the cable card slot not being included, i am wondering if maybe its a misprint or maybe the slot was added after the manual was written, i remember reading something like this happened with the pioneers and the hdmi features were not in the manual. i still cant believe panasonic did this....

i dont remember were i read this but as far i can remember, i have been researching since last year, the commerical pannys and the onyx have 7th gen glass with sub pixel, virtually the same the only difference is better looking estethics and seperate media box for the onyx, the 25u uses 6th gen glass no sub pixel control i think, and the 50u is suppose to be 8th gen of and course should have subpixel but i am beginning to doubt that very much, maybe its really 61/2 gen...panasonic was on a roll but i think they just stumbled...this stuff now with the 720 issue is starting to stink...why in the world would panasonic take all these steps backwards, its like buying a newer reciever without component inputs, 7.1, component switching, etc etc...were supposed to get more features not less, it reminds of my damn union, you pay more and more dues each year but get less benefits, what the heck is going on?

Originally posted by yobob
IMO, Panasonic has just lost a lot of potential sales.

There were a lot of us hoping the 42ED with 8th gen glass and sub-pixel control would make up for their not offering a 37ED. I think we have been let down.

FWIW

IMO, the lost sales are infinitesimal.

But what do I know?

Is this feature really than valuable>

I think some people were hoping that the subpixel control thing would reduce the screen door effect on the 42 ED model, meaning that the viewing distance could be as close as the discontinued 37 ED model. If there is no reduction in the screen door effect, then some people with close viewing situations would have to go for the 37 or 42 HD versions (which are of course more money).

If I recall correctly R. Harkness commented on the Onyx and sub pixel control. He said the picture looked better with it turned OFF.

Sorry Rich if my memory is incorrect.

Originally posted by Pedro2
I think some people were hoping that the subpixel control thing would reduce the screen door effect on the 42 ED model, meaning that the viewing distance could be as close as the discontinued 37 ED model. If there is no reduction in the screen door effect, then some people with close viewing situations would have to go for the 37 or 42 HD versions (which are of course more money).

My thoughts exactly.

It seems like with everything they're doing, more than just to save money and offer the models at lower costs, is that they're trying to get people to buy the more expensive models in their lineup, which is a rather sleazy thing to do.

Originally posted by rogo
IMO, the lost sales are infinitesimal.


Count me in that infinitesimal number.

Originally posted by wassim17
It seems like with everything they're doing, more than just to save money and offer the models at lower costs, is that they're trying to get people to buy the more expensive models in their lineup, which is a rather sleazy thing to do.

I think you are being too hard on them. I think the truth is that most people don't need a cable card slot so why not take it out and let those people buy the TV for less money?

Well, if the glass is not 8th generation, I will be returning mine. If it is 8th generation, then this plasma is a home run for me. I have 30 days from receipt to determine whether or not it is. I will not hesitate returning if its not because I feel Panasonic lead us to believe it is.

Is panasonic even making a 8th generation glass???

IIRC they annouced their 7th gen glass last september with the 7uy's. Why would they start 8th gen so quickly. Am I missing something.

maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it was pretty well established that this new set has 7th generation glass, catching up to the commercial and Onyx models already out?

They have been announcing 8th gen glass for their upcoming 50 series panels ever since CES.

But from the posts flying around today, that does NOT include the 50 series 42ED. So it must be reserved for the HD models.

I can see them not wanting to put the CableCard in the Panny if that is what they are in fact doing. I was told by TV Authority that after a ruling by the FCC, any tv over over 30" is required to have a ATSC tuner and CableCard.
If CableCard is not included, that is OK with me. It is an extra charge to have added and there are probably a lot of people who do not need it. Here is an article from CNET on why it may not be useful to people. http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-8900_7-5581176.html

*Once CableCard 2 (or whatever the new version of it is called) comes out, then it would definitely be unacceptable for any company to produce a tv without it.
*One other thing that I still do not understand is how come you can not control the aspect ratio of HD. I presume that Panasonic believes there is no use in changing the quality of a HD feed only to change it and have the internal processors convert the picture to something that is not of true HD. However, as long as burn-in/image retnetion exists; I believe people are going to want to sacrifce a little picture quality to protect what most people consider is now an investment.

I think Panasonic sees the writing on the wall.They'll still sell many great quality HD sets, but they know that LG/Zenith will be the big seller for people who want contrast ratio at a cheap price. Panasonic may make the best EDTV--but their days of selling the most EDTVs are numbered.

Copy: ;)


Well as I said many times...

Unless I'm proven wrong ( I want to see REAL improvements ),
those 8G Models are simply a "Marketing BS" !!!! IMO

What happened to the 7th Generation Models Then ???

Why jump from 6th to 8th Generation ?!?!?

It doesn't make any sense to me !!!

Besides, Panasonic usually releases newer Generation Plasmas in Japan (For obvioulsy reasons). I still can't find ANY press release/info talking about new models coming to the Japanese Market.

So...




.

there is too much confusing information, look at the site below it states that all the new sets have sub pixel control and it shows they all have qam tuners, i thought qam tuners are used with cable cards, corret me if i am wrong...

http://www.tvtrack.com/2005/02/03/panasonic-pdp/

QAM is digital cable, but without cable card you can only tune unencrypted channels (like your digital locals which might be carried by your cable company).

Yep, I agree david8613. Anyone who has been following Panasonic's news releases for the past few months would be lead to believe that the TH-42PD50U has sub pixel control. Maybe thats not 8th generation, but its different than the previous ED generation and thats whats important. Call it improved 7th generation or 8th generation or what ever you like, but its still improved (according to press releases). If this is not the case I will be returning the TH-42PD50U. In fact, it may never get delivered =)

Best regards...

i have comcast cable in bloomfield new jersey and i have digital cable with a box in one room i get more channels in this room, but my other rooms dont have boxes and i get most of channels including hbo, will this qam tuner work for me? how does this work?

The external box is tuning *digital* cable for your first TV. Comcast has more channels available on digital than on their older analog service. Your other TVs are still tuning into the analog signal. When you upgrade to Comcast's digital service, you still also receive the analog feed and it's available to any of your TVs that can tune into it, i.e. most sets built in the past 10 years. The new Panasonics will tune the digital signal without need for the external box, but only those channels that are not scrambled (encrypted). To receive those channels you still need the box or a digital TV that supports CableCard.

Also looking at the remote for the 50u, it has half the amount of buttons and i dont see any pip buttons either, the whole set is looking more like my Akai i had for a week, small useless remote,made in mexico...etc
I'm sure panny didnt build a whole new plant they just added a line at the samsung plant.

As far as remotes go w/ any product I rec'd "every" customer get a good universal learning remote and never worry or deal w/ a multitude of mediocre remotes again period. It is almost always worth it in time saved and convenience.
I am serious every enthusiast should consider a single all purpose remote unless by chance their current remote does everything (unlikely).

Originally posted by AdilM
As far as remotes go w/ any product I rec'd "every" customer get a good universal learning remote and never worry or deal w/ a multitude of mediocre remotes again period. It is almost always worth it in time saved and convenience.
I am serious every enthusiast should consider a single all purpose remote unless by chance their current remote does everything (unlikely).

So true.

I've been helping someone put together a system. They've spent thousands of dollars putting together a plasma, surround receiver, cable box, DVD/VCR, surround sound. And now they are balking at the idea of spending the money for a decent universal remote. "Ah, maybe we'll think about that later."

I'm trying to make them realize that, after all that work and setting up a complex system, you really drop the ball at the last minute by not making your interaction with all that equipment smooth, easy and comfortable...instead of the multi-remote nightmare.

I agree and with a JP1 remote, you can program it from your computer!

However, I believe in this case, they were pointing out the lack of PIP to make us think that was one more feature they took out of the 50U...not just the remote!

Originally posted by AdilM
As far as remotes go w/ any product I rec'd "every" customer get a good universal learning remote and never worry or deal w/ a multitude of mediocre remotes again period. It is almost always worth it in time saved and convenience.
I am serious every enthusiast should consider a single all purpose remote unless by chance their current remote does everything (unlikely).

For those who missed the original CES picture of the 42PD50U, here is a high resolution image that you can zoom in on. It is obvious from this picture that there was not going to be any front inputs.

TH-42PD50U High Resolution Image (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/images/Content/pressroom/42PD50screen.zip)

Is it possible the inputs are on the side as they are with the Dell plasma?

I'm really bummed about this, and might buy the 42pa from Costco now.

Inputs on the back of the 42PD50.

...and I called the number in the 50U online manual and they confirmed...no Cable Card! I looked at the manual and see NO PIP at all. What the heck is Panny thinking? Perhaps a 25U on closeout may be the way to go! Just make the dealer think...oh gee, for a good price I will "take" the old one. :D

For our Bedroom it is looking like the 25U has a few key features I was expecting the 50U to have.

Originally posted by yobob
Inputs on the back of the 42PD50.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why are people talking about getting a 25U on closeout when you can purchase a TH-42PWD7UY for under $1900 shipped from more than one retailer? Even with a stand, you can find it for under $2,000 shipped.

I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules here (I didn't list WHERE to find it), but I just don't understand why people would opt for the 25U for more $$? Does anyone need the built-in speakers? Will anyone NOT be using a HD box from their cable company or satellite provider (negating the need for the tuner)?

Personally, the only reason I might hold out for the new 50U is the sub-pixel control, since it doesn't seem to have ANY of the other features everyone was hoping for :(

Just so you don't think we PA lovers are crazy...

Until sub-pixel is confimred on the PD50 (I'm doubtful), and until it's been reviewed as major improvement, the PD/PA25 offers more to 'typical consumer' right now.

Yes, I will be using Sat box, but want speakers so can watch stuff without powering up entire 5.1 system and waking the house.

Inputs on front important to me as I like to hook up my digicam to watch movies.

Last, buying PA model from Costco is getting multi-year warranty for free. Yes, it's about same as PD via on-line retailer, but don't need cable card or tuner (DTV offers tuner on thier HD boxes). Other than that, the same w/free warranty, just drop it off and pick up new one if I want.

Good luck whichever way you go...

Of course the downside to the PA/PD 25 is that they are based on the 6th generation panel. The PD50 is at least 7th generation.

You all keep forgetting the increased grayscale of the new pd50. That is a BIG DEAL!

Originally posted by jkozlow3
Maybe this is a dumb question, but why are people talking about getting a 25U on closeout when you can purchase a TH-42PWD7UY for under $1900 shipped from more than one retailer? Even with a stand, you can find it for under $2,000 shipped.

I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules here (I didn't list WHERE to find it), but I just don't understand why people would opt for the 25U for more $$? Does anyone need the built-in speakers? Will anyone NOT be using a HD box from their cable company or satellite provider (negating the need for the tuner)?

Personally, the only reason I might hold out for the new 50U is the sub-pixel control, since it doesn't seem to have ANY of the other features everyone was hoping for :(

I hear what you are saying as I almost went the route of 7UY. Now owning the PD25, I've definitely appreciated the added features.

The wife and kids just need plain old sound and using a single remote to increase the volume of the attached speakers has been a benefit.

The ASTC tuner has also been useful. My cable company provides most major networks except for ABC. Adding a simple FM antenna to the B Antenna allowed me to pick up ABC OTA.:D

I also see increased picture quality from cable directly into the unit. Thanks to the QAM tuner, I'm able to get all my non-digital stations and all unscrambled HD stations. Having the cablecard gives me the option of getting the best picture quality and all stations that I subscribe to.

I plan on connecting my STB via HDMI to see if I can bring up the quality close to straight cable. Also an added benefit of the consumer model.

I guess in the end, flexibility has been the added value for me.

BTW - Excellent PQ, Stunning HD and great SD. We'll see if the new units have a noticable increase in PQ. I hope so because I will need another plasma in about six months. Probably a 50" this time:D

Just my .02

YES! For a bedroom I want the speakers and tuner built it. One of our local places is trying to have me upgrade to a Hitachi 42HDT51 as they said he just bought a bunch of them at a great price and it is full HD. However, my concern is that I "think" an ED is better if 90% of viewing is ReplayTV and SD.



Originally posted by jkozlow3
Maybe this is a dumb question, but why are people talking about getting a 25U on closeout when you can purchase a TH-42PWD7UY for under $1900 shipped from more than one retailer? Even with a stand, you can find it for under $2,000 shipped.

I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules here (I didn't list WHERE to find it), but I just don't understand why people would opt for the 25U for more $$? Does anyone need the built-in speakers? Will anyone NOT be using a HD box from their cable company or satellite provider (negating the need for the tuner)?

Personally, the only reason I might hold out for the new 50U is the sub-pixel control, since it doesn't seem to have ANY of the other features everyone was hoping for :(

If these panels really do last for 60,000 hours, then eventually today's PDP will be relocated to another room in your house somewhere down the road. Consumer PDPs that include speakers, tuners and CableCARD provide a lot of relocation flexibility.

OK, so I decided to search for info about the TH-42PD50U one more time. I figure things must have changed since I last did an exhaustive search about one hour ago :)


This statement by panny is so boggling... What in blazing saddles did panny mean with such a statement (with respect to the 50u)???


LAS VEGAS, NV (January 5, 2005) - Panasonic, the leader in high definition and plasma TV, once again demonstrates its commitment to exceed expectations with its new line of plasma displays. The company is introducing six digital models for 2005, all with integrated ATSC1/NTSC/QAM tuners and all featuring the latest plasma panel technology for unsurpassed performance.

i think panasonic would have done much better by keeping the features with the newer glass and just charge what they charged for last years models at least we would feel like were getting something substantial that way, and not losing anything...i think we americans think differently we always want more...

Has anyone seen a good explanation of just what "sub-pixel control" really does for you? To me it sounds like marketing-speak. They obviously already control the sub-pixels (RGB) separately, or they couldn't do colours. I can imagine them changing the way they process the border pixels between colours, so the sub-pixels nearest the other colour are adjusted to smooth the transition, but how do they come up with a 30% increase in resolution without adding pixels??

As for SDE, my (limited) understanding is that it's based on the interpixel borders, i.e. the black space between the pixels (the tops of the walls, so to speak). Unless that's changed, I don't see how SDE could be improved.

Am I out to lunch (quite possible)? What am I missing?

edit: P.S. jspirate, the red statement sounds like more marketing fluff. Only politicians are better at saying nothing so impressively.

The reason I'm considereing a 37" 25u over a 7uy is this will be a TV for me, not in my home theater. I dont want surround sound with external speakers, and the built in atsc tuner will really come in handy since I dont have HD direcTv yet (cant give up my Tivo and wont pay $1000 for the hd one). Also I really want the 37" size since I'm trying to move down my tv size. (Yes I said DOWN lol). Right now I have a 53" and it just takes up too much space in the living room. If I want big I'll watch my projector at 106".

Originally posted by jkozlow3
Does anyone need the built-in speakers? Will anyone NOT be using a HD box from their cable company or satellite provider (negating the need for the tuner)?
:(

Well, I wish the built-in speakers could be removed from my 42PD25U, but I love many of its other extra features, especially its built-in tuner.

While I can't get a decent analog OTA signal where I live (excessive multi-path), my digital picture is flawless, even on low VHF, using my ancient antenna. (I know, not everyone is so fortunate.)

I subscribe to D*, but hardly watch it anymore. At this stage, I can't see buying another D* box, paying to install a new D* antenna, and spending another $11/mo. to add 4 or 5 HD channels that I'd only occasionally watch. The built-in tuner is the perfect solution for me until D* adds more HD content or they decide to improve their upgrade incentives to existing customers. Maybe by then their HD digital recorder won't be so outrageously priced.

In the meantime, I can enjoy a lot of HD content OTA, free. When I finally do get a new HD satellite receiver, I'll be able to connect it to my HDMI input and won't have to buy an additional blade. Or maybe I'll switch to digital cable, and take advantage of the cable card. The tuner gives me the luxury of being able to wait for the cable/satellite HD market to evolve before I commit to anything.

The 25U includes a full one year in home manufacturer's warranty backed by a reliable local B&M, too, which the commercial version does not match. After watching friends cope with a series of series of QC issues with their new plasma (albeit, not a Panasonic), this seemed valuable to me.

The 7UY certainly is a great choice, but for many of us the consumer version is even better.

hey how about everyone emailing panasonic to get an official statement on what exactly th 42pd50u have and doesnt have feature wise. the features i want to know about is.

1) what generation glass is it?
2) what tuners does it have?
3) i know this has been beaten to the ground but i want to hear it from the horses mouth, does it or doesnt it have the cable card slot?
4) does it have 3:3 pulldown? i am not sure if i worded that right.
5) does it have sub pixel control?
6) will it be capable of 8.6 billion colors?
7) what does it do with a 720p signal?

Originally posted by david8613
hey how about everyone emailing panasonic to get an official statement on what exactly th 42pd50u have and doesnt have feature wise. the features i want to know about is.

1) what generation glass is it?
2) what tuners does it have?
3) i know this has been beaten to the ground but i want to hear it from the horses mouth, does it or doesnt it have the cable card slot?
4) does it have 3:3 pulldown? i am not sure if i worded that right.
5) does it have sub pixel control?
6) will it be capable of 8.6 billion colors?
7) what does it do with a 720p signal?

OK I gave it a shot. For item 4 it should be 3:2 pull down.

I added 8) oes it remember uniqe settings for each input.

JCPZero

Originally posted by david8613
hey how about everyone emailing panasonic to get an official statement on what exactly th 42pd50u have and doesnt have feature wise. the features i want to know about is.

1) what generation glass is it?
2) what tuners does it have?
3) i know this has been beaten to the ground but i want to hear it from the horses mouth, does it or doesnt it have the cable card slot?
4) does it have 3:3 pulldown? i am not sure if i worded that right.
5) does it have sub pixel control?
6) will it be capable of 8.6 billion colors?
7) what does it do with a 720p signal?


I e-mailed them last Sunday, but I didn't ask all of the questions listed above. I asked about the sub pixel control and whether or not there was a cable card slot. I don't think it the 50u has a cable card slot, but I asked ayway.

No response yet.

kool jcpzero, i saw something on the pioneer 4340 having something called 3:3, i have heard about 3:2 pulldown so i figured 3:3 would be better.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4123_17600334,00.html

To add to further conflicting information, manager at a local store talked to his panasonic rep for me today and was told that the pd50u would in fact have the cablecard and the tuners. You'd think a rep would know his stuff, so maybe we'll all be happy afterall... :)

Just 12 days and I'll be able to find out for myself. Is anyone getting theirs sooner than the 22nd?

Mangelo

mangelo did you mention to the manager about the conflicting reports were getting? did ge say he is absolutely sure?

Originally posted by david8613
kool jcpzero, i saw something on the pioneer 4340 having something called 3:3, i have heard about 3:2 pulldown so i figured 3:3 would be better.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4123_17600334,00.html

You are absolutely correct about Pioneer and 3:3. But, most other manufactures (including Panasonic) only have 3:2 (or in the case of 50u possibly the feature is not included).

JCPZero

do you know the difference between the 2...

I looks like the date has been confirmed by most people from B&M's that the 42PD50U will be in-stores on 3/22. Has anyone heard of the delivery date for the 42PX50U? I see where it is in April. Will it be the beginning of the month or more toward the end? Just curious if anyone has heard. I would assume that it would closely follow behind the PD50 and come out early April.

Also, I see no mention of PIP. When was the last time a non PIP (not a monitor) was made?

I may have a Circuit City that will deal, but I now wonder if the OLD 42pd25u is even worth it if the 50U comes thru with the features we had expected!

Originally posted by david8613
mangelo did you mention to the manager about the conflicting reports were getting? did ge say he is absolutely sure?

Originally posted by david8613
do you know the difference between the 2...

If you go to this link and put your mouse over advanced pure cinema it will give you definitions of 3:2 and 3:3:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4123_17600334_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDeta ilComponent#

I'll paraphrase the link:

3:2 is to convert films 24 frames per second to the tvs 30 frames per second. 3:3 is *edit* pioneers improvement to do the same thing, but eliminate some of the jitter.

JCPZero

thanks, i wonder if the pannys will use this feature, sounds like something good to have...oh and i emailed them too, i also sent them a link to this thread so they can see there is alot confusion about the pd50u, i hope they respond soon so i can decide on wether or not to keep the my preorder.

I think I can work around some of the panny 50U deficiencies - such as possibly no per input memory picture settings. No 3:2 would be a concern though - as most of the competition offers this and I think it is a needed feature.


JCPZero

Originally posted by mangelo
Is anyone getting theirs sooner than the 22nd?

Mangelo

Mine will be delivered on the 25th :)

Originally posted by david8613
hey how about everyone emailing panasonic to get an official statement on what exactly th 42pd50u have and doesnt have feature wise. the features i want to know about is.


Don't hold your breath. I e-mailed them a couple weeks ago when we found out the 37ED would be available in Germany. I asked why it would not be available here.

Silence. . .

Anybody home?? Yoohoo . . . .

Conclusion: They blew me off.

Originally posted by jcpzero
I'll paraphrase the link:

3:2 is to convert films 24 frames per second to the tvs 30 frames per second. 3:3 is pansonics improvement to do the same thing, but eliminate some of the jitter.

JCPZero

Except that from what I've read here, many have turned it off because it doesn't work as well. And I *think* it is Pioneer instead of Panasonic.

Originally posted by yobob
Except that from what I've read here, many have turned it off because it doesn't work as well. And I *think* it is Pioneer instead of Panasonic.

It must have been late when I wrote that. 3:3 pulldown is a pioneer feature.

JCPZero

Correct... it's the Pio that has the 3:3, and according to reviews, it's far from perfect.

cheers.

Whats the big deal about 3:2 pulldown, a good dvd player will do that for you anyway?
I too wish the speakers would be removed as the speakers that are in there really suck!!
My just returned Akai had awesome sounding speakers, just too bad the rest sucked..haha.
I have a excellent surround 6:1 setup with a Yammi reciever but you dont want it on at 6am's newscasts.
Anyone with a PD or PA have a good setup settings for color and contrast...etc?
I'm starting to think a good LCD is a better looking choice as my panny plasma has kinda a washed look even compared to the $89 20" bedroom tv...it's just missing some deeper contrast than a good ole CRT

Originally posted by Bud-man
Whats the big deal about 3:2 pulldown, a good dvd player will do that for you anyway?

True, that would be a workaround for DVDs. I thought I had read 3:2 also comes into play with film sources on TV. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

I started a separate thread to learn more about the issues of 3:2 pull down here:

Would no 3:2 Pulldown concern you? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=519041)

JCPZero

Originally posted by Bud-man
I'm starting to think a good LCD is a better looking choice as my panny plasma has kinda a washed look even compared to the $89 20" bedroom tv...it's just missing some deeper contrast than a good ole CRT

In my opinion the Aqous picture is outstanding, but the price is for the birds. I just can't make myself comfortable with the price of the 37 inch. My plan is to use the 50u for two years. By then the LCD prices should be better and I will move the 50u to another room and have a newer more reasonably priced LCD in my entertainment room. The 50u price is what made me pull the trigger now. I was planning on waiting until this fall.

whats up people... its a little quiet out there, any news...

Gentleman:

I wonder why you have to pre-order the PD50U - any good discount? Otherwise, beside the "urge" it would be wise to wait ~2 more weeks. I am sure this web site will be flooded with comments.

Beside BB today drops the MSRP price of the PD25U to clear the stock. It is for new, not demo and the price is the same as new PD50U. Consider dollar/feature with the new one, this is a steal.

My problem with BB is that Panny/BB does not cover dead pixel. So if I am the unlucky one, I am stuck. The solution, of course, is to spend $299 on extend warranty.

Originally posted by plasma_user
Gentleman:

I wonder why you have to pre-order the PD50U - any good discount?

The discount was why I did it. It was only $125, but thats better than nothing :)

Originally posted by david8613
whats up people... its a little quiet out there, any news...

No news here. I have been researching wall mounts, cable management etc...

Is this store only as I do not see the 42pd25u online any more?


Originally posted by plasma_user
Gentleman:

I wonder why you have to pre-order the PD50U - any good discount? Otherwise, beside the "urge" it would be wise to wait ~2 more weeks. I am sure this web site will be flooded with comments.

Beside BB today drops the MSRP price of the PD25U to clear the stock. It is for new, not demo and the price is the same as new PD50U. Consider dollar/feature with the new one, this is a steal.

My problem with BB is that Panny/BB does not cover dead pixel. So if I am the unlucky one, I am stuck. The solution, of course, is to spend $299 on extend warranty.

well i ordered mine only because i know by reading this awesome forum, the pd25u was a great set with alot of extremely satisfied people even though its just an ed model, and i assumed after reading panasonics article the newer model would have all the features of the pd25u but with the newer 8th gen glass with the sub pixel control, and maybe some other newer features, so in my mind it had to be even better than the previous model, besides i got a 150.00 discount and that did it for me... but now i dont know if i want to keep it... and to make things worse is that i heard fujitsu just had a major discount on theres, do i smell a price war coming, i love the smell of discounts in the morning, maybe this will all cause the 50 inchers to come down. i would be willing to drop all the consumer features to get that...

"My problem with BB is that Panny/BB does not cover dead pixel. So if I am the unlucky one, I am stuck. The solution, of course, is to spend $299 on extend warranty."

I thought BB has 30 day return for any reason.

jrock65:
Thanks for your comments. When I asked the BB sale associate today, she said dead pixel warranty coverage varies from different manufacturers. We just have to check their web sites to verify.

As far as returning it within 30 days, I did not ask but I read many times in this forum that I have to pay 15% restocking fee. I hate to pay this cost for a defect that is not caused by me. At least BB should allow us to exchange for a different unit; however the store is forced to mark down 10% because it is already open.

Wasn't the 15% restocking fee for returns AFTER 30 days? Maybe I'm getting confused.

I went to Best Buy yet again today. When I asked if they had found anything out about the specs, he said that he was able to print up the price label they'd be using for the store display (the normal label you see under each TV in the store). On it, it had these features listed:

* 852x480 progressive scan 16:9 display
* Built-in ATSC tuner
* HDMI input
* 2 component video inputs
* 2 A/V inputs w/S-video
* Audio output
* 3D Y/C digital comb filter

This is the first actual written confirmation that the 50u will not have the cablecard slot, QAM tuner, no PIP, and no front inputs (at least that I've seen). It would have listed these things on the price label if they were present, of that I'm sure.

To top all of that, I can now get the 25u for $2200 (local). I don't know if I can turn that down since the 50u will be missing those features...I just wish I knew about the glass (subpixel or no?). Dave, will you be canceling your order? Did you find out if/how you could?

Mangelo

yeah i think i would like to wait and find out about the glass, because if its 7th gen. then that will be the straw that broke the camels back and i will diffenitely be returning my preorder if someone can tell me this bit of info. this will end my procrastination with the 50u. and i will have to look else where.

Originally posted by mangelo
I went to Best Buy yet again today. When I asked if they had found anything out about the specs, he said that he was able to print up the price label they'd be using for the store display (the normal label you see under each TV in the store). On it, it had these features listed:

* 852x480 progressive scan 16:9 display
* Built-in ATSC tuner
* HDMI input
* 2 component video inputs
* 2 A/V inputs w/S-video
* Audio output
* 3D Y/C digital comb filter

This is the first actual written confirmation that the 50u will not have the cablecard slot, QAM tuner, no PIP, and no front inputs (at least that I've seen). It would have listed these things on the price label if they were present, of that I'm sure.

To top all of that, I can now get the 25u for $2200 (local). I don't know if I can turn that down since the 50u will be missing those features...I just wish I knew about the glass (subpixel or no?). Dave, will you be canceling your order? Did you find out if/how you could?

Mangelo

Well, I know the corporate giants are sometimes just short of being absolutely foolish, but I will be surprised if the 50u doesn't have subpixel control. Its just too silly to offer a new model with less features than the old model and then charge more for it while having the same glass. I struggle to see the logic in it, even when considering the crap these companies try to pull. That being said, I will stick to my plan and return the 50u (or not have it delivered) if it doesn't :)

EDIT: I am pretty sure the panny release said the 50u had ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners (plural). Is that inconsistent with the BB info?

Regarding the missing features on the PD50U, I suspect Panasonic just switched the marketing plan.

There are two other 42" plasma coming out later this year. Maybe they will have all the features there. Talking about finer incremental MSRP.

This way Panasonic can lower the price of the plasma to compete. I suppose not everybody need PC input, or PIP, or cable card/QAM (I don't).

jspirate: According to the sales label printed up at Best Buy, it does contradict the Panasonic press release mentioning multple tuners. It only listed the ATSC tuner.

I'm not so sure the new panel will have the subpixel control. From when I talked to Panasonic directly on the phone, everything they have told me has been verified by BB's price label and they were the ones who also said it did not have subpixel control. I would think they may have listed it on the "features" of the price label considering they listed things so elementary as "audio output" and the "3D Y/C digital comb filter." Most any consumer TV will have both audio and the comb filter. It seems to me that they were just listing things because they had nothing else to list.

As I've said before, I suppose I can live without some of these features. But, if given the opportunity to purchase a 25u for $2200, would you do so versus a 50u for the $2137 I paid? I'm just afraid that if I wait too much longer to decide, that there will literally be no more 25u's left in my locale.

Mangelo

i am begining to think the 50u doesnt have all the tuners, if it had all the tuners i think it would have the cable card slot, think about it how much could it cost to put a slot if it had the tuner, duh... but you know i was reading some specs on the higher end unit the 42px50 i think that comes later in june, and it has cardcard 2 which is 2 way cable card, isnt that something... i am wondering at least if the 42px50 does the subpixel thingamajig... i still need to know about the glass though with the 50u...what if the 50u is just a 7th gen comercial model with a newer silver bezel, that would be messed up....shame on you panasonic...

doesn't it make you begin to think that the new models are going to be inferior to the old models.... in terms of feature and usability?

Originally posted by david8613
i still need to know about the glass though with the 50u...what if the 50u is just a 7th gen comercial model with a newer silver bezel, that would be messed up....shame on you panasonic...

Yeah David8613, this is the whole rub for me. Although I would think it foolish for panasonic to do something like this, I am really unsure of whats up. The cost of the older units relative to the new units is really boggling. Oh well, we should know something soon.

I was so happy to be out of the plasma market. I don't want to have to go back into "decision mode." :confused:

Originally posted by jspirate
The cost of the older units relative to the new units is really boggling. Oh well, we should know something soon.

I was so happy to be out of the plasma market. I don't want to have to go back into "decision mode." :confused: Mexico versus Japan, China versus Korea... the difference in labor costs (plus economies of scale) explain the introduction of 8th generation PDPs at lower prices. If SED 1920x1080 panels become a reality next year... HDTV enthusiasts will consider Plasma to be in the same league as RPTVs. The choice will become a cheap Plasma (or LCD FP) versus an expensive SED.

Originally posted by optivity
Mexico versus Japan, China versus Korea... the difference on labor costs (plus economies of scale) explain the introduction of 8th generation PDPs at lower prices.

Well, that is part of what is adding to the discombobulation here. It adds weight to the side of the scale that has the 50u with 8th generation glass. I want to be an optimist on this issue, but I just can't seem to think that way (even though I pre-ordered because I thought this was the case). Sometimes I wish I hadn't pre-ordered because then I probably would not be so interested in the issue.

Oh well, time will tell :)

but you know thats what kills me, you would think if they are making the pd50 in mexico it would be cheaper to make, then why cut so many corners on this unit, with cheaper labor cost you should get more features or at least the newer better glass "8th gen" for less money, i think panasonic is planning on making a killing with the msrp price now, then slash that price in half by xmas to fend off competition. i am begining to have my doubts that the pd50 is 8th gen., does anyone know for sure if its 7th or 8th gen?

Originally posted by mangelo
I went to Best Buy yet again today. When I asked if they had found anything out about the specs, he said that he was able to print up the price label they'd be using for the store display (the normal label you see under each TV in the store). On it, it had these features listed:

* 852x480 progressive scan 16:9 display
* Built-in ATSC tuner
* HDMI input
* 2 component video inputs
* 2 A/V inputs w/S-video
* Audio output
* 3D Y/C digital comb filter

This is the first actual written confirmation that the 50u will not have the cablecard slot, QAM tuner, no PIP, and no front inputs (at least that I've seen). It would have listed these things on the price label if they were present, of that I'm sure.

Mangelo

This is all confirmed by the 50U manual, which is just a re-edited version of the 25U manual, thus easy to compare. All references to cable card, PIP, second tuner and front inputs (including SD and VGA) have been removed.

There is a laundry list of other minor features that are gone from the 50U as well, although several others have been added, some of which look pretty cool. Generally, the features Panasonic took out so they could lower the price were not critical to most people, but those details served to make the 25U "feel" like a "luxury" product instead of a "budget" one (if the term "budget" can be applied to a $2500 TV).

I haven't seen this mentioned by anyone, but what I'd miss most, other than PIP, is the "Automatic" picture mode. I know not everyone likes this, but I use it all the time. (At the factory setting, it gives me very comfortable brightness and contrast levels in my darkened room as well as dead-on perfect colors through my DVE blue and red filters. Green is a bit off, but that's a color decoder issue that is pretty common in plasmas and I can't do much better manually.)

I'm inclined to agree with those who say that sub-pixel control would probably be mentioned by Panasonic somewhere if it existed. I've read that it would be defeatable, in which case it would be discussed in the manual, and it isn't, at least not by that name. They do mention several picture enhancement features that are not in the 25U, such as MPEG NR, switchable "Black Level," and defeatable "Color Management" (this is in addition to the previously implemented "Color Matrix;" could it be sub-pixel control?).

Listing "audio output" as a feature probably refers to digital optical audio output, which not every set has (mostly because not every set has a built-in ATSC tuner).

I was pretty dismayed when the 50U series was announced 5 days after I bought my 25U, but after reviewing the differences, I'm content with what I have.

It does not have the CableCard slot or PIP. I was at a CC yesterday and the Panasonic rep was there.


Originally posted by david8613
i am begining to think the 50u doesnt have all the tuners, if it had all the tuners i think it would have the cable card slot, think about it how much could it cost to put a slot if it had the tuner, duh... but you know i was reading some specs on the higher end unit the 42px50 i think that comes later in june, and it has cardcard 2 which is 2 way cable card, isnt that something... i am wondering at least if the 42px50 does the subpixel thingamajig... i still need to know about the glass though with the 50u...what if the 50u is just a 7th gen comercial model with a newer silver bezel, that would be messed up....shame on you panasonic...

The front inputs are a handy feature. Too bad if they are out.

I thought when I saw the first picture of the PD50U that they'd gone cheap to compete with the chinese models, and were going to save the good looks and features for the HD sets, in an effort to make HD more attractive vs. the ED.

I also haven't seen any explanation of the sub-pixel control, and just what good it is, and that seems to be the only thing that's changed in the "8th generation". Not sure I swallow the "30% increase in resolution" hype. ...and there's no sign it's in the PD50U anyway.

Which, along with the loss of the 37, sends me back to the TH37PWD7UY.

Originally posted by david8613
but you know thats what kills me, you would think if they are making the pd50 in mexico it would be cheaper to make, then why cut so many corners on this unit, with cheaper labor cost you should get more features or at least the newer better glass "8th gen" for less money, i think panasonic is planning on making a killing with the msrp price now, then slash that price in half by xmas to fend off competition. i am begining to have my doubts that the pd50 is 8th gen., does anyone know for sure if its 7th or 8th gen? Provided real improvements have been made to both the glass and electronics of the PX50/500U series panels would qualify the 2005 Panasonic PDPs to be considered 8th generation displays. Next year when 1980x1020 SED FPs are introduced 8th generation PDPs will be relegated to 2nd tier FP status. The only way for PDP (and LCD) to compete will be to cut their price. If PDP makers start building a version of 1920x1080 FP displays, I don't believe Plasma will render a picture better than SED. Next year when "Ferrari priced" SEDs are available there will be large inventories of PDPs built in China and Mexico being sold at the local Wal Mart, Sams Club, Costco... at some cut-rate price.

The TH-42PD50U is a direct response to the Sony consumer ED plasma, the KE-42M1. Not coincidentally, the KE-42M1 is the best-selling plasma in the U.S., followed closely by the TH-42PD25U.

The 42M1 has a silver bezel, has no front inputs, has no CableCard, has no ATSC tuner, and HAS 720p capability. So what does Panasonic do with the 42PD50? It makes the bezel silver, gets rid of front inputs, gets rid of CableCard, and adds 720p capability. At least Panasonic retained the ATSC tuner, which the 42M1 does not have.

The MSRP of the 42PD50 is $2500, and the MSRP of the 42M1 is $3500, although I have a feeling that the latter will drop to $3000 as soon as the 42PD50 is widely available.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=tv_plasmawega&ProductSKU=KE42M1&TabName=feature

Originally posted by jrock65
The TH-42PD50U is a direct response to the Sony consumer ED plasma, the KE-42M1. Not coincidentally, the KE-42M1 is the best-selling plasma in the U.S., followed closely by the TH-42PD25U.

The 42M1 has a silver bezel, has no front inputs, has no CableCard, has no ATSC tuner, and HAS 720p capability. So what does Panasonic do with the 42PD50? It makes the bezel silver, gets rid of front inputs, gets rid of CableCard, and adds 720p capability. At least Panasonic retained the ATSC tuner, which the 42M1 does not have.

The MSRP of the 42PD50 is $2500, and the MSRP of the 42M1 is $3500, although I have a feeling that the latter will drop to $3000 as soon as the 42PD50 is widely available.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=tv_plasmawega&ProductSKU=KE42M1&TabName=feature

I noticed this too.

Panasonic also dropped PIP, which the Sony also lacks. They even matched the KE42M1's bottom mounted speakers and less than 1 watt standby power rating. They didn't keep the pseudo-surround sound feature, though, which Sony still has, but most features are now tit for tat.

One thing Panasonic still has to overcome is Sony's #1 rating by CR. Once that was published, the Sonys seemed to fly out of the stores.

CR not withstanding, I thought PQ was a pretty much a draw between Sony and Panasonic, and chose the 42PD25U because of its richer feature set together with its lower price. If, as I too expect, Sony drops its price on the KE42M1, I'm not sure I'd make the same decision vs the 50U, although the ATSC tuner remains a big plus for Panasonic.

That's very interesting, and very likely explains Panasonic's strategy. I had no idea that Sony made the best-selling plasma in the US. I don't know if it's just me, or whether Sony just isn't that popular in Canada, but that stat really surprised me. When I asked at my local Sony store why they didn't have any plasmas on display, the salesman said "Sony only allows a few display models in the bigger markets, because after a month or two on display they burn in so badly they have to destroy them."

The plot thickens!!!!!!!!! I am from NY and today I visited a local PC Richards to look at plasmas. When I was there I asked if they had any info on the release of the 50U. The saleman brought up a computer screen showing them to recieve 350 of them on 4/01/05. I also inquired if he had any of the specs for the unit. He searched his system and showed me a listing indicating that the 50U would have ATSC NTSC tuners Qam, PIP, cable card, and every other feature the 25U had. I told him that there was alot of conflicting info as to the features of the 50U most of it pointing to the unit being a stripped dowm version of the 25U. He responded by saying that the info in our system is based on what the manufacturer provide us with and it should be accurate!. Interesting huh? There was no mention of sub pixel control, 8th generation glass or cablecard2.

What do you make of this??????????
______________________________
Panasonic TH37PX50 37 Inch 16:9 Plasma Display 1024x768 HD Resolution, HD Tuners

LAS VEGAS, NV (January 5, 2005) - Panasonic, the leader in high definition and plasma TV, once again demonstrates its commitment to exceed expectations with its new line of plasma displays. The company is introducing six digital models for 2005, all with integrated ATSC1/NTSC/QAM tuners and all featuring the latest plasma panel technology for unsurpassed performance.

¡§Panasonic is escalating plasma panel development to meet the remarkable growth the market is experiencing,¡¨ said Andrew Nelkin, Vice President, Panasonic Display Group. ¡§We are committed to continually providing the very best for our consumers, in technology, performance and value. All of our plasma displays are produced solely by Panasonic. From R & D to the manufacturing of panels and electronics to control of the production process, Panasonic is setting the benchmark from start to finish.¡¨

The new line builds upon the superior quality and reputation Panasonic has established in the flat-panel display arena with technologies such as sub-pixel control, which individually addresses the red, green and blue charges within one pixel, resulting in a 30% increase in horizontal resolution over previous models. The new panels are capable of reproducing a maximum of 8.6 billion colors, with thousands of gradations within the red, green and blue spectra, and the highest contrast ratio in the industry, to render an incredibly vivid picture with enhanced detail in dark scenes. Further advancements have been made in optimizing color purity with 3D color processing, and in ensuring outstanding picture quality in a wide range of ambient lighting conditions.

¡§More and more high-definition programming is becoming available over the air, on cable, and via satellite,¡¨ said Nelkin. ¡§This year¡¦s plasma sets employ the best new technologies to enhance picture quality beyond conventional standards, to realize the true HD dream.¡¨

TH-42PX500U HDTV 720p 42¡¨ diagonal
TH-50PX500U HDTV 720p 50¡¨ diagonal
ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners; 720p/1080i/480p/480i video in; CableCARD„· slot; Electronic Program Guide; SD Memory Card slot2; photo viewer; 16:9 screen; contrast ratio up to 3000:1; PCMCIA slot, PC input; HDMI, optical digital audio out; The Director Lighted Disc Home Theater remote. Quiet, power efficient.
June 2005

TH-37PX50U HDTV 720p 37¡¨ diagonal
TH-42PX50U HDTV 720p 42¡¨ diagonal
TH-50PX50U HDTV 720p 50¡¨ diagonal
ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners; 720p/1080i/480p/480i video in; CableCARD„· slot2; 16:9 screen; contrast ratio up to 3000:1; HDMI, optical digital audio out; The Director Lighted Disc Home Theater remote. Quiet, power efficient.
April 2005

TH-42PD50U EDTV 480p 42¡¨ diagonal
ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners; 720p/1080i/480p/480i video in; 16:9 screen; contrast ratio up to 4000:1; HDMI, optical digital audio out; The Director Lighted Disc Home Theater remote. Quiet, power efficient.
March 2005

About Panasonic Consumer Electronics Company
Based in Secaucus, N.J., Panasonic Consumer Electronics Company is a Division of Panasonic Corporation of North America, the principal North American subsidiary of Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. (NYSE: MC) and the hub of Panasonic's U.S. marketing, sales, service and R&D operations. Information about Panasonic products


1 Optional external over-the-air antenna may be required for ATSC reception.

The plot thickens!!!!!!!!! I am from NY and today I visited a local PC Richards to look at plasmas. When I was there I asked if they had any info on the release of the 50U. The saleman brought up a computer screen showing them to recieve 350 of them on 4/01/05. I also inquired if he had any of the specs for the unit. He searched his system and showed me a listing indicating that the 50U would have ATSC NTSC tuners Qam, PIP, cable card, and every other feature the 25U had. I told him that there was alot of conflicting info as to the features of the 50U most of it pointing to the unit being a stripped dowm version of the 25U. He responded by saying that the info in our system is based on what the manufacturer provide us with and it should be accurate!. Interesting huh? There was no mention of sub pixel control, 8th generation glass or cablecard2.



POST #
are you absolutley sure that pc richards was showing the specs on the pd50u and not the px50u which is an hd set due out later, and did they give you a price? i was about to cancel my order tommorrow from best buy for the pd50u and now this... maybe bestbuys version is different from pc richards? some years ago i brought a velodyne 18" subwoofer that was unique and was made and sold only through 6th ave electronics, you couldnt get this same exact 18" anywhere else, it had a different amplifier section compared to the other 18" velodynes in other stores...

I'm not quite sure what to make out of this conflicting information
about the 50u model, in which I am also interested. One thing that
seems obvious to me, even if the new unit comes out not being the
"8th" generation glass with subpixel or not, wouldn't that mean it
would at least be the "7th" generation same as the commercial units ?
If so, wouldn't that by itself make the 50u be more desirable to have
based on th 60K hour to half life time vs. 30K hour on the 25u by itself?
Assuming you didn't need the extras that don't quite have any impact on
the PQ such as the inclusion of cablecard or even the ATSC tuner ?

Assuming PQ is no worse than 25u, just the longevity of at least 7th gen
glass would make it a better purchase to me.

If the 50u doesn't have Cable Card you'll know that Panasonic is surrendering that segment of the market to LG/Zenith. I hope that is not the case.

Folks, I really think you can trust the owner's manual on Panasonic.com, which shows no cable card or pip or front inputs, just ATSC and NTSC tuners. Everything else until now has been either rumour or ambiguous press release; I'd consider the manual pretty darn reliable, maybe even more so (gasp) than a retailer's computer.

Of course it doesn't mention 8th-gen glass or sub-pixel control, but I still haven't seen anything describing the benefits, if any, of that.

Best let it go, swallow your disappointment, and if you need what's not in PD50 pick up one of the last of the 25Us or start saving for the PX50.

Originally posted by henryd31
If so, wouldn't that by itself make the 50u be more desirable to have
based on th 60K hour to half life time vs. 30K hour on the 25u by itself?


The 6th Generation 25U Models are also rated 60k Hours. :)

Originally posted by PerryU


Of course it doesn't mention 8th-gen glass or sub-pixel control, but I still haven't seen anything describing the benefits, if any, of that.


The manuals don't mention newer technology nor the Generation of the Panel. And since the Consumer models don't have Brochures like the Commercial Models, You'll have to rely on the Press Release http://boards1.wizards.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

are you positive about the 25u and it having the 60k half life panel?

Yes, as I stated the info quoted by the PC richards salesperson was for the 50U, directly from the computer. So still seems to be alot of conflicting info on this.

Yes, the price was quoted as 2499

I am not buying the 25U because I want the 720p input capability.

Panasonic sure seems to have done there homework on this model :rolleyes:

not for nothing but am i the only one that noticed "casey jones" first post ever was in this thread? Not saying he's lying but i wouldnt go canceling any orders or ordering any panels by what he claims to have seen.

Originally posted by BruZZi
The 6th Generation 25U Models are also rated 60k Hours. :)

That's not what I see looking at the specs of the pwd6uy vs pwd7uy
on the Panasonic web site. Since pd25u was based on the same glass as
pwd6uy it had the same older specs - do you possibly mean 60K hour life time and not 60K hour half life, that's a big difference ?
Now, if Panasonic started using the same glass in pd25u after the
commercial unit was introduced, and never bothered to update the model
number, I'd be happy to learn that.

Dont do that 88, the reason my first post was to this forum was there were questions posed in other threads asking if anyone asked salepersons specific questions regarding the 50U. I was there and I did. In the spirit of helping others in this forum I feel thats what its all about. Lying?? I think not. Remember dont shoot the messenger, lol!

Originally posted by david8613
are you positive about the 25u and it having the 60k half life panel?

Panasonic seems to think so. In November 2004, well before the 50U's were announced, they issued a White Paper entitled "Plasma Myths and Facts," in which they stated "Panasonic plasmas have a half brightness rating of 60,000 hours..."

Originally posted by henryd31

Now, if Panasonic started using the same glass in pd25u after the
commercial unit was introduced, and never bothered to update the model
number, I'd be happy to learn that.

I've postulated that possibility elsewhere, although we may never know for sure. Manufacturers sometimes make this kind of change without announcing it. They don't want to be deluged with customer demands for an upgrade. That's why specs usually include a "subject to change without notice" disclaimer.

Using just one kind of glass makes a lot sense from a production efficiency point of view, though, and Matsushita is a very efficient manufacturer.

Perry, I agree with you. I talked with the Panny Rep at CC Saturday and he confirmed No CableCard or PIP. etc. He said they had to go to a pay-for-features model. Also, Panasonic Plasma support confirmed it as well!

So, I looked at the ED's (including the 42PD25U) and bought a Hitachi 42HDT51...It is true HD and there is no contest with the picture quality or features. I can not quote the price, but it was only a little more than the 42PD25U!




Originally posted by PerryU
Folks, I really think you can trust the owner's manual on Panasonic.com, which shows no cable card or pip or front inputs, just ATSC and NTSC tuners. Everything else until now has been either rumour or ambiguous press release; I'd consider the manual pretty darn reliable, maybe even more so (gasp) than a retailer's computer.

Of course it doesn't mention 8th-gen glass or sub-pixel control, but I still haven't seen anything describing the benefits, if any, of that.

Best let it go, swallow your disappointment, and if you need what's not in PD50 pick up one of the last of the 25Us or start saving for the PX50.

Originally posted by Macfan424
I've postulated that possibility elsewhere, although we may never know for sure. Manufacturers sometimes make this kind of change without announcing it. They don't want to be deluged with customer demands for an upgrade. That's why specs usually include a "subject to change without notice" disclaimer.

Using just one kind of glass makes a lot sense from a production efficiency point of view, though, and Matsushita is a very efficient manufacturer.

I agree about the manufacturing efficiency statement, the only thing that
bothers me is the fact that they would be using the newer glass at the
end of the life of the whole model, which by itself might not be as straight
forward. I could just as well assume they used the last of the 6th gen glass
to finish up with the model, after all, there is either no way to tell which
glass is in the unit, or we simply don't know about such way. So,
assuming the truth about the 7th gen glass in the late pd25u's, I
still wouldn't want to chance it knowing it would be only in some of the
models from last months of its manufacturing life anyway, then why
bother when new ones are so close...but thanks for the enlightment.

Originally posted by henryd31
I agree about the manufacturing efficiency statement, the only thing that
bothers me is the fact that they would be using the newer glass at the
end of the life of the whole model, which by itself might not be as straight
forward. I could just as well assume they used the last of the 6th gen glass
to finish up with the model, after all, there is either no way to tell which
glass is in the unit, or we simply don't know about such way. So,
assuming the truth about the 7th gen glass in the late pd25u's, I
still wouldn't want to chance it knowing it would be only in some of the
models from last months of its manufacturing life anyway, then why
bother when new ones are so close...but thanks for the enlightment.

The White Paper that claimed a 60,000 hour half life was published in November, so a change in the 25U panels — if there actually was one — would probably have been phased in before then, most likely around the time the 7 series went into production. The 25Us sold as fast as Panasonic could make them, so you’d be hard pressed to find any made before November now, even if you wanted to.

But pure speculation like this is not a good basis for a purchase decision.

I love my 25U, but if the reduced feature set isn’t a problem, there are plenty of good reasons beyond potential longevity to favor the new 50U. Various sources indicate it will have 1/3 more grayscale resolution and 8 times greater color depth than the 25U. The manual mentions several new circuits, including MPEG NR, a Black Level control, and a Color Management feature.

Whether these enhancements result in PQ improvements visible to the naked eye remains to be seen, but they certainly do represent ongoing advances in technology.

Mpsan, did you buy your Hitachi at a brick and mortar store for that price, and if so, how did you get it at such a discount?

ok i need some advice guys i cant take it anymore with this whole pd50u thing, i already preordered the pd50u and since it looks like its missing features i want like the cable card, even though there are different reports of this. i have an oppurtunity to get one of the last few pd25u available in my area, should i cancel my preorder and dump the pd50u so i can get the pd25u, i am tired of looking at my laurial plasma table with nothing on it "look at my gallery" i am ready to buy now...

Yes, a B&M. They are in Wash.,OR, and California. They have been running a very good ad. They had a few left and the salesman I spoke to said he just returned from vacation and he would make me a killer deal if I would wait. I have bought many times from them.

I got it delivered and set up less than an hour ago. I can't begin to count the dead Pixels...there are none! :D

I think that is all I will say about this here (PM) but they just got their shipment in and they have a ton of them...actually I bet they have more than a ton by weight! :D

Originally posted by wassim17
Mpsan, did you buy your Hitachi at a brick and mortar store for that price, and if so, how did you get it at such a discount?

Originally posted by david8613
are you positive about the 25u and it having the 60k half life panel?

Yup.

Read Below


Originally posted by henryd31
That's not what I see looking at the specs of the pwd6uy vs pwd7uy
on the Panasonic web site. Since pd25u was based on the same glass as
pwd6uy it had the same older specs - do you possibly mean 60K hour life time and not 60K hour half life, that's a big difference ?
Now, if Panasonic started using the same glass in pd25u after the
commercial unit was introduced, and never bothered to update the model
number, I'd be happy to learn that.

Unfortunately you CANNOT rely on the info in the Panasonic's website. Just like any other site, there's a lot of mistakes and outdated info once and while.

I meant 60k half time.


Read Below


Originally posted by Macfan424
Panasonic seems to think so. In November 2004, well before the 50U's were announced, they issued a White Paper entitled "Plasma Myths and Facts," in which they stated "Panasonic plasmas have a half brightness rating of 60,000 hours..."



Check out the Brochure for the Panasonic "6UY" Models introduced around August 2003 :

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/brochures/B_TH-50PHD6UY.pdf


______________________________________________________

Page 3:

Long-Life Panel
Panasonic plasma display panels boast a long service life of
approximately 60,000 hours.*


* The time until panel brightness is reduced to half its initial level. However, this time varies
depending on the content of the images displayed and the usage environment. Displaying a
single still image for long periods should be avoided because it can cause the image to be
burnt onto the screen, leaving a permanent afterimage. (The service life given above is
intended as a guideline when displaying standard moving images.)
_______________________________________________________




The "PD25/PX25" Consumer models are based on the same 6th Generation Panel




.

Originally posted by david8613
ok i need some advice guys i cant take it anymore with this whole pd50u thing, i already preordered the pd50u and since it looks like its missing features i want like the cable card, even though there are different reports of this. i have an oppurtunity to get one of the last few pd25u available in my area, should i cancel my preorder and dump the pd50u so i can get the pd25u, i am tired of looking at my laurial plasma table with nothing on it "look at my gallery" i am ready to buy now...

I don't remember the original panny release making the cable card issue so clear. I swear they changed it, but anyway I am as certain as I have been that there will not be a cable card slot on the pd50u (grrrr, I was gonna provide a link but the panny site is off-line).

Anyway, I have been back and forth on the issue, but I am leaning toward keeping the panny. I want the 720p input capability and the 25u doesn't have it. I guess there is an argument to made as to whether or not its necessary on an ED model, but I buy into the side that says that there is value to it.

Anyway, I think its worth waiting a little while before you drop the pd50u. *shrug*

did anyone figure out what generation glass the pd50u has, right now my mind is leaning towards the pd25u, someone mentioned about new circuits in the new panny please elaborate, i am looking for a reason to stay with the pd50u but at this point nothing has lead me to believe that its worth giving up all the features of the 25u. by the way guys i just went to the panasonic site and its down right now, hopefully panasonic is updating the site to reveal what the pd50u truly has to offer if anything...

Strange... it looks like panny is doing some work on the consumer side of their website. We can hope for more pd50u info :)

EDIT: opps, I didn't see that David's post pointed out that the panny site is down.

it looks like they have not changed anything on the site, although i found by doing a search for the pd50u this little section, hit view televisions and you will see some pics of the newer models showing specs with subpixel control but no pd50u very wierd, why so secretive panasonic?

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/ces_2005/product.asp

Originally posted by david8613
it looks like they have not changed anything on the site, although i found by doing a search for the pd50u this little section, hit view televisions and you will see some pics of the newer models showing specs with subpixel control but no pd50u very wierd, why so secretive panasonic?

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/ces_2005/product.asp


Very strange, very strange indeed....

I can't remember who said it but someone mentioned that R. Harkness had reviewed the Onyx, which reportedly has the sub-pixel control feature, and his comment was the the picture looked better with that feature turned off. Does anyone remember that comment, and could Mr. Harkness perhaps weigh in on the issue of whether the PD50 would benefit from the SPC feature??????

Originally posted by tomboyter
I can't remember who said it but someone mentioned that R. Harkness had reviewed the Onyx, which reportedly has the sub-pixel control feature, and his comment was the the picture looked better with that feature turned off. Does anyone remember that comment, and could Mr. Harkness perhaps weigh in on the issue of whether the PD50 would benefit from the SPC feature?????? Better yet, go to your local "Tweeters" and verify the "sub-pixel controller" on/off feature for yourself.

Originally posted by tomboyter
I can't remember who said it but someone mentioned that R. Harkness had reviewed the Onyx, which reportedly has the sub-pixel control feature, and his comment was the the picture looked better with that feature turned off. Does anyone remember that comment, and could Mr. Harkness perhaps weigh in on the issue of whether the PD50 would benefit from the SPC feature??????

Well, I think in my mind I have become comfortable with the thought that if the "sub pixel controller" has been included in the pd50u that this would mean that the unit had the latest generation of glass. This is probably not a good assumption to make, but I am interested in what glass is offered in the pd50u more than I am about the pixel control. Would panny offer sub pixel control in anything but the latest generation of glass? If not I will be happy to have the option of turning the feature off because after flipping the switch the latest generation glass should be better than the previous generation? I don’t really know if this is the case. I do know what happens when you start making assumptions :p

Originally posted by david8613
...someone mentioned about new circuits in the new panny please elaborate.

I can’t tell you much more than is in the 50U manual. It lists these three selectable features that were not in the 25U:

* MPEG NR — “Unique noise to DVD, STB etc. will be reduced.” (sic) This may be similar to the filter used in external processors such as the iScan to remove the “chroma bug,” but it sounds different. Video NR also remains, although apparently it can no longer be set to engage automatically when the signal is weak.

* Black Level — “Select Light or Dark [Light: VIDEO/YUV 480i, Dark 480P (VGA)/1080i]. Valid only for external input signals.” It seems to complement the Color Matrix, which is still there. The latter only works with 480p signals

* Color Management — “Color Mng On. Enable vivid color management automatically.” This seems to have replaced the 25U circuit called Natural Color which was supposed to “increase the color reproduction range with natural color gradation and highly delicate hues.”

There are a host of changes in convenience feature circuits, too, some improvements, some deletions.

Really good advice Optivity, however, no Tweeters, no store of any kind to view on in, no access to any of the new Panny's in my location, and still just too impatient.

Even though the 50u hasn't been seen by anyone yet, I decided to go with my gut and I canceled my pre-order. This was after being 99% sure in my mind that all of the features that have been discussed are in fact going to be missing. The only feature that may be present would be the sub-pixel control with a newer glass and maybe a larger gray scale.

Somebody said it well earlier when they mentioned the 50u seemed to be a "budget" plasma compared even to the 25u. Unless the 50u had remarkably better PQ, I think I'd still have to look at it that way.

This decision was also based on the fact that I could get a really nice deal on the 25u at $2130. In my mind, I couldn't justify not pulling the trigger at that price, so I bought it.

I also picked up a Sony NS775 DVD player. I hope to use an HDMI cable from the STB to the Plasma and component from DVD to the plasma. Would anyone else do it differently for best PQ?

Mangelo

i was just in best buy today to pick up the dvd the incrediables "good movie" anyway i noticed that they removed 2 plasmas from the shelves i guess they are making space for the new panasonic pd50u, but there was a second space available for another plasma not sure which brand, anyone now if any other plasma is due next week also?

Ok, I live south of Boston, and I was just in Best Buy the other day, and one of the guys working there said they wouldn't be carrying ed plasmas any more, as they weren't selling nearly as well as their hds. He said he thought that most other bb's in the area would be doing the same, but I'm not sure he knew what he was talking about. Has anyone else encountered this?

Wassim,

I think he's full of it. Unless Boston is very different from where I live in Wisconsin. The ED's have been doing very well here, especially the Panasonics. BB has hundreds coming there way here and circuit city had 250 in a warehouse in the region. Was he trying to sell you on purchasing an HD set?

Mangelo

Originally posted by wassim17
Ok, I live south of Boston, and I was just in Best Buy the other day, and one of the guys working there said they wouldn't be carrying ed plasmas any more, as they weren't selling nearly as well as their hds. He said he thought that most other bb's in the area would be doing the same, but I'm not sure he knew what he was talking about. Has anyone else encountered this?

Doesn't know what he is talking about. In Q4 2004, 58% of all Plasma displays sold in North America were ED displays.

Display Research (http://www.displaysearch.com/press/2005/022205.htm)

No, he wasn't trying to sell me an hd, we were just discussing displays. Not all of the salesmen at BB know what they're selling, but I at least thought he'd know if his own products, if they had a shipment coming in like a week.

Originally posted by mangelo
Even though the 50u hasn't been seen by anyone yet, I decided to go with my gut and I canceled my pre-order. T

Mangelo

Bummer Mangelo. I have decided to keep mine. There are a couple features I would like to see, but I have become comfortable with two things: the 720p input and the glass improvements. If to 50u does not improve on the previous generation’s glass, I will re-evaluate. In my opinion (and needs), if these two features are present then they trump the features that the 25u offers.

Hey David, did you cancel your order also?

no i havent cancelled my order yet decided to wait it out, i am sure they will have one on display before the 22nd when my set comes. i will decide then when i see it first hand, the worst thing that can happen is i wont like the pd50u and the other sets prices will drop... the best thing that can happen is i will love it and take it home. though i am thinking about putting a little more money together and maybe get 50" comericial hd model if i cant find a set with all the features i want for my original price range 2500.00. i have waited this long i can wait a little longer, my infocus 4805 projector will have to hold me over in the mean time...

Ok, so it seems the ed version is the redheaded step child of the previous years. What about the hd versions. I know the manuals aren't up yet, but does anyone have any info on the px50?

The PX50 will be like the PD50, except with the addition of CableCard, black bezel, and 768p native.

It is also definitely 8th generation, meaning sub-pixel control.

Does anyone know when we'll see the PX50 or PX500? I thought the PX50 was coming with the PD50 and the 500 a few weeks later?

Any new info on these other than the original press release?

Originally posted by Chisand
Does anyone know when we'll see the PX50 or PX500? I thought the PX50 was coming with the PD50 and the 500 a few weeks later?

Any new info on these other than the original press release?


No, the 37HD and 42ED models were scheduled to come out together. The other HD models will be released later. I personally doubt the 37HD will be released at the same time as the 50u.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5224582#post5224582

The new units are 7th gen panels made in Mexico and have been refined. They have enhanced features labeled in the link.
There has been a pricedrop across the board... applause here.
I understand some of the issues people are having w/ the EDTV model, but we all know EDTV will be phased out over time and the prices have come down.
These panels will be better and longer lasting than current models.
The "8th gen" panels when they occur will start at the top (Onyx) and trickle down. This is the way it has always been.

These are the imporant features across the board for those too lazy to link ;) :

New Features:
7th Generation Panel
Sub-Pixel Controller
2048 Shades of Gradation
Over 8.58 Billion Colors
Color Purity Optimizer
Motion Pattern Noise Reduction
Super Real Gamma Circuit

Standard Features:
16:9 (Widescreen)
DTV Compatibility (1080i/480i/480p/ 720p returns)
HDMI-HDCP
Over 8.58 Billion Color
Asymmentrical Cell Structure
Mach Band Effect Enhancer
Gamma Enhancement System
2 S-Video or AV Inputs (1 on front)
2 Component Video Inputs
BBE ViVA HD3D Sound
Stereo Speakers
8W + 8W
AI Sound
Surround Sound
V-Chip Program Lockout
Sleep/On/Off Timers
Built-In CC Decoder
1536 Shades of Gradation
New Real Black Drive System
Remote Control
Pedestal Stand
Progressive Scan Doubler
Anti-Reflective Screen Coating
2400 Meter Altitude

adilm would you say the pd50u is basically a commercial ed panny plasma panel with a silver bezel? or do you think the pd50u is a totally different animal? i noticed that you show 1 set of inputs on the front but from the pics of the unit and others on the forum mentioned that there is no inputs on the front of the pd50u, are you sure about that?

Originally posted by AdilM

New Features:
7th Generation Panel
Sub-Pixel Controller
2048 Shades of Gradation
Over 8.58 Billion Colors
Color Purity Optimizer
Motion Pattern Noise Reduction
Super Real Gamma Circuit

Standard Features:
16:9 (Widescreen)
DTV Compatibility (1080i/480i/480p/ 720p returns)
HDMI-HDCP
Over 8.58 Billion Color
Asymmentrical Cell Structure
Mach Band Effect Enhancer
Gamma Enhancement System
2 S-Video or AV Inputs (1 on front)
2 Component Video Inputs
BBE ViVA HD3D Sound
Stereo Speakers
8W + 8W
AI Sound
Surround Sound
V-Chip Program Lockout
Sleep/On/Off Timers
Built-In CC Decoder
1536 Shades of Gradation
New Real Black Drive System
Remote Control
Pedestal Stand
Progressive Scan Doubler
Anti-Reflective Screen Coating
2400 Meter Altitude

I can't wait to get mine!!!


Anyway, I was at BB today and asked the sales guy when the 50u would be in. I did not tell him I had one on pre-order and that BB was delivering on 3-25-05. Anyway, the sales guy told me that he thought May was probably when it would be available. I told him that panny is supposed to be making them available for purchase at the end of this month. He said "Ahhhhh, then I would expect us to have them sometime around May." I said "OK, thank you" and then walked around the corner to check out the pannies currently on display. At that point I ran into another sales guy. We started the whole routine all over again with pretty much exactly the same results.

I left BB with a smile on my face. Maybe these guys have some info that I don't, but I think its more likely that they are just flying by the seat of their pants. Very funny indeed :D

whats up with the two different shades of gradiation figures?

The "Standard Features" are last year's consumer line.
I am assuming this is where the "front input" question came from?

The "New Features" represent changes across the board.
If you go to the link it shows individual features for each plasma.
It expects you to read the list of plasmas sequentially and see how the higher models improve on the one below.

I am expecting a "lot" of the EDTV in the last week of this month.
IMO (not any sort of official Panasonic Representative), I think the new consumer EDTV represents a refined and feature laden commercial model. Most of the "kinks" should be out.

Originally posted by AdilM
The "Standard Features" are last year's consumer line.


I thought the 720p input was new this year? I stay way to confused on this stuff :rolleyes:

Originally posted by AdilM
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5224582#post5224582


... we all know EDTV will be phased out over time...




Maybe, but not anytime soon.

42" ED's accounted for more sales last year than all other sizes and formats of plasma combined. As their prices keep dropping, their popularity will grow. It's unlikely that the mass market will be willing to pay more than a 25% premium for "true" HD plasmas, as their advantage over ED's is not all that obvious in the average living room. As long as ED's sell well, they will be available.

The high margin manufacturers (Fujitsu, Sony, Pioneer, etc.) and their HT dealers may drop ED's as unit profits drop in the face of Korean price competition, but Panasonic's current strategy — trimming hardware features, moving production to a lower labor cost plant, pricing agressively, etc. — suggests they are willing to take on the Koreans in the price sensitive end of the market.

We may not see a full featured ED like the PD25U again (although I wouldn't be surprised to see Samsung or LG step into that gap in the market), but we will be seeing ED's until it's possible to build comparably sized LCD's or HD plasmas for nearly the same cost.

Originally posted by Macfan424
Maybe, but not anytime soon.

42" ED's accounted for more sales last year than all other sizes and formats of plasma combined. As their prices keep dropping, their popularity will grow. It's unlikely that the mass market will be willing to pay more than a 25% premium for "true" HD plasmas, as their advantage over ED's is not all that obvious in the average living room. As long as ED's sell well, they will be available.

The high margin manufacturers (Fujitsu, Sony, Pioneer, etc.) and their HT dealers may drop ED's as unit profits drop in the face of Korean price competition, but Panasonic's current strategy — trimming hardware features, moving production to a lower labor cost plant, pricing agressively, etc. — suggests they are willing to take on the Koreans in the price sensitive end of the market.

We may not see a full featured ED like the PD25U again (although I wouldn't be surprised to see Samsung or LG step into that gap in the market), but we will be seeing ED's until it's possible to build comparably sized LCD's or HD plasmas for nearly the same cost. Next year when SED panels become available (with a premium price to match), I suspect you will see ED PDPs discontinued and price pressure applied to 720p displays. Once 720p PDPs become the 2nd tier performers, the only way they will compete with SED will be to lower the price.

Originally posted by optivity
Next year when SED panels become available (with a premium price to match), I suspect you will see ED PDPs discontinued and price pressure applied to 720p displays. Once 720p PDPs become the 2nd tier performers, the only way they will compete with SED will be to lower the price.

Excellent point.

If all the SED hype is true, it will wipe out both Plasma and larger LCDs, as it supposedly can be made better and cheaper than either, making this discussion moot. We've heard claims like this before for technologies that never made it in the market, so we'll have to wait and see.

In the meantime, I don't know that 720p plasmas can be made to sell for less than $2000 (for awhile yet, anyway), which is where many ED's will be by this Christmas. That will be a very popular price point.

Beyond that, I still think ED's will be around as long as they remain at least 25% less expensive than 720p's. There is an enormous market potential for flat panels in the close to $1000 range, which ultimately might be possible with ED's.

If there really is a wide gap in production cost between 480 and 768 glass, 480 could wind up dominating the low end while SED squeezes 720p's out in the middle. If not, I would have to agree with you, as I doubt that four flat panel formats (including LCD) will survive in the long run, if for no other reason than they will engender too much consumer confusion. As I said, if SED lives up to it's promise, it will be the sole survivor... until OLEDs or something else comes along!

But then, I thought Beta would prevail over VHS simply because it was superior technology.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by optivity
Next year when SED panels become available (with a premium price to match), I suspect you will see ED PDPs discontinued and price pressure applied to 720p displays. Once 720p PDPs become the 2nd tier performers, the only way they will compete with SED will be to lower the price.

I don't see how a PREMIUM-priced SED will cause $2000 ED plasmas to be discontinued. Simply because of price, people shopping for one will not cross-shop with the other.

Now, if the price of a SED came down to ED plasma, then sure.

Originally posted by Macfan424
But then, I thought Beta would prevail over VHS simply because it was superior technology.:rolleyes:

I still have mine, along with some of the "classic" movies. I don't have room on my current HT stand, so it sits in the closet until I want to plug it in for a "special showing."

And it IS/WAS superior to VHS. :)

The height dimension in the PD50 manual (27 39/64") appears to be without the table stand. Based on earlier types of Panasonic stands and looking at the press release photo, the stand will add at least couple of inches to the overall height. Does anyone have a better feel for this?

For what it's worth, the German Panasonic web site says the panel for the TH-42PA50E (presumably the European analog version of the PD50) is an "G8" (eighth generation?) panel iwth 2048 gray levels and subpixel control.

and the beat goes on . . . .

By this time next week maybe we'll all know something for sure. Maybe.

Originally posted by jrock65
I don't see how a PREMIUM-priced SED will cause $2000 ED plasmas to be discontinued. Simply because of price, people shopping for one will not cross-shop with the other.

Now, if the price of a SED came down to ED plasma, then sure. Right. This is all just speculation. It becomes a matter of how many different flavors of PDPs will a manufacturer produce, distribute and convince a retailer to carry in inventory... so everyone makes a profit. My spin is... by the end of 2006 we may see 50" SED 1920x1080 panels in the $7K - $10K range which will force the high-end (Pioneer/Fujitsu) PDP makers to lower the price for their 720p displays to compete. This in turn will make companies like Panasonic & Samsung lower the price for their 720p panels. Unless PDP manufacturers & retailers can make a profit for ED displays (that may eventually sell for under $1000), I suspect they may be dropped altogether. Especially if PDP makers attempt to come out with their own version of 1080p panels.

I agree that "Joe American" television buyer (myself included) will never spend more than $2K - $3K for a TV with an economic climate of $2.15 per gallon gas prices ($2.50 by this summer) and annual property tax increases of 25%.:eek:

Originally posted by optivity
Right. This is all just speculation. It becomes a matter of how many different flavors of PDPs will a manufacturer produce, distribute and convince a retailer to carry in inventory... so everyone makes a profit. My spin is... by the end of 2006 we may see 50" SED 1920x1080 panels in the $7K - $10K range which will force the high-end (Pioneer/Fujitsu) PDP makers to lower the price for their 720p displays to compete. This in turn will make companies like Panasonic & Samsung lower the price for their 720p panels. Unless PDP manufacturers & retailers can make a profit for ED displays (that may eventually sell for under $1000), I suspect they may be dropped altogether. Especially if PDP makers attempt to come out with their own version of 1080p panels.

I agree that "Joe American" television buyer (myself included) will never spend more than $2K - $3K for a TV with an economic climate of $2.15 per gallon gas prices ($2.50 by this summer) and annual property tax increases of 25%.:eek:

Good points. Although I doubt that the average "Joe American" will even spend more than $1000 for a TV.

has anyone compared the specs of panasonics commercial units to the the new pd50u, i wonder if there the same or different...

colour me slow but ... what does "SED" refer to?

"Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display".

Originally posted by optivity
I agree that "Joe American" television buyer (myself included) will never spend more than $2K - $3K for a TV with an economic climate of $2.15 per gallon gas prices ($2.50 by this summer) and annual property tax increases of 25%.:eek:

Unfortunately, gas will be a fair bit higher than $2.50 this summer, but I agree that with the 2k - 3k range.

I suspect that Christmas 2005 we will see 42" ED Plasma displays start to break the $1000 point. Most B&M stores now carry off brands well below $2k. The forum sponsors (above) have 37" commercial units getting close to the $1500 mark.

Going out on a limb here: I bet by Christmas 2005 B&M stores will start to have specials on 42" ED at $999.

This is the type of environment the new Panny 42ED model is being designed to compete in. I do not think that the name brand consumer models will hit $1k by the end of the year, they will start to appear below $1500. MSRP of $2499 for the 42ED now, 33% price drop over the year puts MSRP of $1649 by the end of the year. Talk about an explosion of plasma sales for Christmass 2005!

Originally posted by Negative Zer0
colour me slow but ... what does "SED" refer to? Originally posted by cajieboy
"Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display".Negative Zer0, SED is the first (due out in 2006) of a number of technologies to come that have the potential to be superior to current Plasma/LCD displays. SED is touted to render better blacks and colors more vibrant than even the best PDPs. True 1080p SED displays can be built for 50" panels. Additionally, technologies like FED and OLED show promise. Eventually SED/OLED/FED will relegate Plasma & LCD to 2nd tier FP display status with corresponding (i.e. much lower) prices.

ah. thanks guys *feels less in the dark now* :D

I was at Best Buy earlier this evening, and their system shows the 42PD50U arriving on 3/27.

SKU 7006134 if that helps anyone.

thats wierd mine is suppose to be coming here in jersey on the 22nd, where are you located?

i would still like to know if the pd50u is just a tweaked out commercial panny or is it a completely different unit. and does it have the qam tuner or not, i looked at the manual and didnt see anything refering to the qam tuner?

Originally posted by david8613
thats wierd mine is suppose to be coming here in jersey on the 22nd, where are you located?

David, have you verified this date since you ordered the TV? I tried to check my BB, but I didn't have the SKU with me at the time and salesguys knew nothing of a new panny.

I'm in the Midwest.

And given how much the Best Buy guys were willing to wheel and deal on the two open box panny's they had in the store (ie not much), I'd say you're getting a good deal from them, David.

If anyone does go ask at BB, make sure they look in their inventory system and not just on the BB web site. The web site has NOTHING on the pd50U. (Although you can order the PX50 there, surprisingly.)

how much were they selling the px50? i went to the site performed a search to see it but could not find it, thanks...

Originally posted by optivity
Negative Zer0, SED is the first (due out in 2006) of a number of technologies to come that have the potential to be superior to current Plasma/LCD displays. SED is touted to render better blacks and colors more vibrant than even the best PDPs. True 1080p SED displays can be built for 50" panels. Additionally, technologies like FED and OLED show promise. Eventually SED/OLED/FED will relegate Plasma & LCD to 2nd tier FP display status with corresponding (i.e. much lower) prices.

I know SED is "supposed" to debut in 2006, but that may be wishful thinking. It may be several more years down the road before we see these SED panels in the stores. Besides, even if SED did actually hit the market in 2006, would you really want a market unproven first generation expensive SED display when compared to say a much less expensive 8th Generation Panny Plasma? SED just may BE the future of flat panels, but I'd like to emphsize the word FUTURE. Still, it's nice to dream a little...:D

Originally posted by david8613
and does it have the qam tuner or not, i looked at the manual and didnt see anything refering to the qam tuner?

Is anyone still making an ATSC tuner that doesn't handle QAM (the cable modulation standard)? Such a tuner would only be able to receive VSP-modulated OTA signals.

I would imagine that any "ATSC tuner" released in 2005 would be able to handle unencrypted QAM. Of course, it may be that the cable companies will only use unencrypted QAM for local broadcast stations, and anything else would require a Cablecard or a STB.

Originally posted by cajieboy
I know SED is "supposed" to debut in 2006, but that may be wishful thinking. It may be several more years down the road before we see these SED panels in the stores. Besides, even if SED did actually hit the market in 2006, would you really want a market unproven first generation expensive SED display when compared to say a much less expensive 8th Generation Panny Plasma? SED just may BE the future of flat panels, but I'd like to emphsize the word FUTURE. Still, it's nice to dream a little...:D All true, the point I was trying to make is that if SED meets expectations it will be superior to Plasma. When SED becomes available I have no idea what the prices will be initially or by Christmas 06'. I'm not too concerned about reliability, since I'm confident that both Toshiba and Cannon know how to manufacture a TV and people are willing to spend $$$$ for PDPs assembled in Mexico. However, if a 1080p 50" SED panel sells for under $10K, companies like Fujitsu and Pioneer will no longer be able to command the same price for a 720p PDP.

Originally posted by yobob
I still have mine, along with some of the "classic" movies. I don't have room on my current HT stand, so it sits in the closet until I want to plug it in for a "special showing."

And it IS/WAS superior to VHS. :)

Me too. In fact, I have two, both still running, one in my bedroom connected to a 32" Sony CRT, the other attached to my Panasonic 42PD25U.

Originally posted by optivity
...SED is the first (due out in 2006) of a number of technologies to come that have the potential to be superior to current Plasma/LCD displays...


The operative word being "potential."

Didn't Intel make the same kind of claims for LCoS in the rear projection world? Before that, wasn't DLP being touted by TI as far superior to any other projection system? (At least TI is still in the DLP business.)

Developers of new technology don't advertise its shortcomings. It takes a while in the real world for them to become apparent.

I may have missed something, but as far as I know Toshiba is the only TV manufacturer to announce plans to bring SEDs to market. Much as I respect them (and SED co-developer Canon), they don't have a lot of clout in the US market. If one of the 800 lb. gorillas here (Panasonic and/or Sony) don't join in, SED isn't likely to take the US by storm.

I just hope no one here denies themselves the pleasure of a PD50U now (or PD25U, for that matter) solely because of claims that something "better" is under development.

I called BB today to ask them when they would have the 50u in-store. He could not answer the question; however, he said the panels were at the district warehouse and available for ordering.

I don't know if that was just a "song and dance" or not.

Isn't this plaz suspposed to be out at BB by now?, didnt people pre order and they said march 17th????

I apologize if this has already been brought up, but doesn't it seem like the PD50U is really a replacement for the PA25U (the BJ's and Costco model), not the PD25U?

It does seem strange that they deviated from their part numbering scheme, but companies do this all the time. Anyone know what the D and A stand for (digital versus Analog perhaps)?

Also, anyone know where he PD25U can still be found? I'm in the Philly area.

Thanks,

Tim
My first AVS post after a year plus of reading...

I think it's about half-way between. It does have an ATSC tuner, but not a cable card slot.

Good luck on finding a PD25U!

Oh--I didn't realize that it had an ATSC tuner; I was assuming that the PD50U couldn't get OTA HD. But knowing that it can, and that I don't care about the QAM tuner or CableCard, I may be OK with the PD50. I'll be using DirecTV with TiVo until either Comcast rolls out TiVo or a CableCard 2 standalone TiVo is out--and affordable. In otherwords--I'll be on DirecTV for a long while to come!

I'm just looking at the operators manual, specs page 45 reads, "Channel Capability-ATSC/NTSC," and goes on to list channels "VHF/ UHF : 2-69, CATV:1-135."

But then, there's been a lot of speculation about whether the manual contains correct info . . .

" I'm not too concerned about reliability, since I'm confident that both Toshiba and Cannon know how to manufacture a TV "

Maybe, but Toshiba's last foray into the bleeding edge resulted in a TV where nearly every single one was recalled and bought back by Toshiba due to defects.

Originally posted by Bud-man
Isn't this plaz suspposed to be out at BB by now?, didnt people pre order and they said march 17th????

Well, I can't remember when they said they would be available (in-store) because I opted for their delivery service. The first delivery date they had available was 3-25-05. I was hoping to look at the unit in store before it was delivered. I want to do some in wall wiring etc and seeing the back of it would make that easier.

Originally posted by rogo
" I'm not too concerned about reliability, since I'm confident that both Toshiba and Cannon know how to manufacture a TV "

Maybe, but Toshiba's last foray into the bleeding edge resulted in a TV where nearly every single one was recalled and bought back by Toshiba due to defects. Right, and these boards are loaded with complaints regarding Pioneer power supplies and 'you name it' problems with Panasonic PDPs. Of course I have complete confidence that panels assembled in Mexico will be "first rate.":rolleyes:

Not to worry though (at least for a few additional years) if you purchase an extended warranty (and don't have to actually use it...)

i would like to ask the forum members to be on the look out for the panny pd50u, mine is on preorder and should be available for pick up on tuesday march 22 from best buy, but i remember panasonic saying it would release this set on march 17 so i am thinking they should have one on display somewhere this weekend, i am going tommorrow to a couple of places to see if they are out yet.

hey guys, here is a tid bid, the newer panasonics coming out the px50 and px500 series are in fact 8th generation panels check this link and click on view televisions and you will see in the specs that these are 8th generation, funny thing is it doesnt show the pd50 at all, i wonder why?http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/ces_2005/product.asp

anyone care to comment on the 8th gen glass, sorry for posting so many times i didnt want this thread to get buried...