Switch "Source Lock" in the user menu to "On".

Does anyone know where I can demo the H79 here in Los Angeles?

Anyone here live in my area & have the H79?

I've already seen the 7210/Firehawk135"/ND2 combo & now need to see the H79's acclaimed black levels for comparision.



P.S. If anyone has the BenQ 8720 here in LA I'd like to see it too (just kidding ;) )

3d guy,
What were your impressions of the 7210. I've yet to see that or the H79. I am leaning toward an H79 but only due to thread info.

Frank, system menu, check signal lock.

Dave Harper, welcome back buddy. I think you'll like this puppy. :)

Jay, the engineer guy Wing was called back to Taiwan for the next two weeks. He's always called there when new products are getting finished. Nothing in the high end line just some entry level products this time. When he's back I'll see if there's a way to memorize service gamma's.

whitewolf1,

Since yours is a 7210 question, I sent you a PM.

Thirdkind & Tom, thanks for tips on signal lock.

I borrowed my friend's Panasonic S97 DVD player and a HDMI Cable to check how the H79 perform with digital DVD input. I set the output to 720p from the Panny and native on the H79. I played clips from several reference DVDs including the Fifth Element Super Bit. To be quite honest, I didn't see much difference between the above set up and 480p from my Sony DVD player thru. components. It could be my eyes but we did A/B several times and both my friend and I could not see a noticable PQ difference. Did I miss some thing?
Frank

Frank, that's very interesting. I'm running 480P through my 59AVi component to my H76. It looks great. I've been wondering how good the scaler is on the Optomas. I've been missing out on 720P due to DVI issues.

Re DVI vs Analog, resolution wise if the analog player has a good front end it will look sharp and show a good picture. The main difference is the clean look to the image the digital path will show. The lack of video noise is commendable.

I have the Bravo D2 working perfectly now and it does look allot better than the Tosh 5790-hdmi I have. But I do prefer the cleaner look on both of these over a Denon 1600 I have.

Tom, in the Service menu should I use FULL or NATIVE if I'm sending a 480P signal via component?

You mean in the User menu's Display choice menu. With 480p analog definitely 16.9 scaled. Native with a 480p component signal will show a window framed image.

We can use Native with the DVI input for upscaling dvd players, HTPC or upscaling cable STB's.

Originally posted by RobZ
Tom, in the Service menu should I use FULL or NATIVE if I'm sending a 480P signal via component? Rob: I believe the service menu choice is just what the unit starts up in as it's default at power on. You can always choose the desired aspect from the remote. At 480p input, for 16:9 sources, use "16x9", for 4:3 sources, use "window" (unless you like your 4:3 material stretched horizontally - then use "16x9"). If you are watching a "talking heads" show and don't like huge heads, choose native and no upscaling will be applied, giving you a framed, smaller image. HTH

Originally posted by guitarman
Dave Harper, welcome back buddy. I think you'll like this puppy. :)


Yeah, if I can just get the chance to see it first hand!!! I'll believe the panning issue is fixed when I see it;)

Does anyone know if the H79 will accept an HDMI-DVI signal from the Pioneer DV-59AVi??? My old H77 would not, the final reason I decided to drop the H77 in favor of the 300E. I believe BobZ's H76 won't work with the 59AVi either. I hope they fixed this issue or again it's a dealbreaker.

Thanks Tom.

I do not believe my H76 problem is specific to the 59AVi. Actually, that would make it easier for me. It's not syncing with any DVI or HDMI at the moment. If anything, the 59AVi is getting closer to locking in than any other DVI or HDMI source. I'm going to have to explain to my wife that it's god's way of telling me that I'm going to have to upgrade to a 3 chip DLP.

Dave:

Other than the DMD change, there is absolutely no indication they have done anything else on the H79. The only difference I see is a couple service menu options that weren't there on my H77 (with original C08 firmware), but I believe these were added to the H77 in the later firmware you tried. Even the firmware on the H79 says it's a H77, they didn't even bother to change the name. So I'd say if the H77 didn't do something in the syncing world, that the H79 isn't gonna either. There is definately no speed improvement for syncing anyway.

I have a Denon 3910, I could test the HDMI output but I don't have a HDMI cable. Since the H7x's are so sensitive to DVI cable lengths, I wonder if a HDMI cable causes the problems others are seeing. We tried several DVI calbles when I got my 77, and not all of them worked. If someone has a long HDMI cable they want to loan me, I'll be happy to test the HDMI output of my Denon with the 79 for them. The 79 came with a HDMI adapter but I believe it's only gonna work on the DVI cable to PJ connection, not to the DVI cable to player end, dunno, have to look.

Scott

I'm going to test out some other cables today (short runs). I'll try the monster cables from BB. I agree that the technology involved in the cable arena plays a significant role in these issues. I often have sync issues with simple HDMI to HDMI with my new Sony tube.

I have used AVIA to calibrate my H79. While the calibration using the Avia was quite simplistic I found the picture to be too dim to my liking if I follow the Avia. I ended up changing all the sittings afterward based on my perference. I wonder how other people who had their H79 calibrated feel about the results. Is it worth to invest in a real calibration such as those by ISF. I just don't want to have the H79 professionally calibrated then going back to my "own settings".

Frank

Originally posted by kaka
I have used AVIA to calibrate my H79. While the calibration using the Avia was quite simplistic I found the picture to be too dim to my liking if I follow the Avia. I ended up changing all the sittings afterward based on my perference. I wonder how other people who had their H79 calibrated feel about the results. Is it worth to invest in a real calibration such as those by ISF. I just don't want to have the H79 professionally calibrated then going back to my "own settings".

Frank

I found the same thing. I use Attack of the clone to adjust brightness now. I use a star field and make sure I can see (barely) the dimmest star. That gave me way better result.

Bruno

Looks like I have to get the Attack of the Clone DVD.
Frank

Funny. I use that same star scene to adjust brightness on all my displays. There are also a few good scenes in Underworld to set brightness properly.

Could you guys tell me which star scene you used? ie. which DVD version and which cheapter etc.
Thanks,
Frank

I've been following this thread closely and I'm planning on getting an H79 in the fall or winter (When the prices have dropped a bit). I also may be lucky enough to redesign my home theater. I'm quite intrigued by constant height setups. I've read that the letterbox zoom on the H79 works perfectly for stretching an anamorphic DVD to compensate for an anamorphic lense. Is this something peculiar to the H79 or would any PJ's letterbox mode work? I'm asking because I don't really want to get a HTPC or a scaler, so I'll need a PJ with this function built into it. So as I understand it the H79 will work on its own in a constant height setup. Are there other HD2+ projectors that will also?

Thank you for any help

Greg

Any letterbox function will work quite well.

Why?

4:3/16:9 ~= 16:9/2.35:1
0.75 ~= 0.7565

This is why the Panamorph add-on lens can sell in both the 4:3 and 16:9 projector markets.

Originally posted by gobrigavitch
I've read that the letterbox zoom on the H79 works perfectly for stretching an anamorphic DVD to compensate for an anamorphic lense. Is this something peculiar to the H79 or would any PJ's letterbox mode work? I believe that most projectors do not support this for HD inputs, only 480p or less input, since they disable aspect ratio changes for HD. It requires an external scaler (including a PC or other device that can scale) in those cases. I remember asking if Optoma would include this a couple of years ago when AJ was working there, but didn't realize they had.

--Darin

Originally posted by DHarp193
Yeah, if I can just get the chance to see it first hand!!! I'll believe the panning issue is fixed when I see it;)

Does anyone know if the H79 will accept an HDMI-DVI signal from the Pioneer DV-59AVi??? My old H77 would not, the final reason I decided to drop the H77 in favor of the 300E. I believe BobZ's H76 won't work with the 59AVi either. I hope they fixed this issue or again it's a dealbreaker.

Thanks Tom.

Dave - my basement isn't done yet, so I don't have my equipment permanently set up yet - BUT...I have an H79 and a DV-59AVi and hooked up a temporary connection when the drywall was completed to test out the projector. I am using a 25' HDMI-DVI cable that I bought from ramelectronics.net. I used Episode II as a test DVD and set the HDMI resolution to 720P on the Pioneer - and it looked absolutely incredible (projected on the drywall!!). I was amazed at the image quality and cannot wait for the basement to get finished (2 weeks and counting!). Hope this helps...

Cheers,
Todd

Originally posted by RobZ
I do not believe my H76 problem is specific to the 59AVi. Actually, that would make it easier for me. It's not syncing with any DVI or HDMI at the moment. If anything, the 59AVi is getting closer to locking in than any other DVI or HDMI source. I'm going to have to explain to my wife that it's god's way of telling me that I'm going to have to upgrade to a 3 chip DLP.

Sounds like a HDCP problem. Try the hand shake format.

First display on, then turn on the source.

Shut down
First turn the source off, then turn off the display.

If there's time left on the warranty maybe the 76 needs a check up.

Originally posted by darinp2
I believe that most projectors do not support this for HD inputs, only 480p or less input, since they disable aspect ratio changes for HD. It requires an external scaler (including a PC or other device that can scale) in those cases. I remember asking if Optoma would include this a couple of years ago when AJ was working there, but didn't realize they had.

--Darin

If I understand correctly any letterbox function will work, but for most projectors they will not allow it on HDTV. So almost all would work with 480p using the letterbox zoom, but only a select few (including the H79) will work with HD sources?

Originally posted by gobrigavitch
If I understand correctly any letterbox function will work, but for most projectors they will not allow it on HDTV. So almost all would work with 480p using the letterbox zoom, but only a select few (including the H79) will work with HD sources? Don't know about the others behavior at 480p, but I can verify the H79 definately will do it with a upscaled (from my Denon 3910) 720p feed. HTH, Scott

Originally posted by Thwockage
Dave - my basement isn't done yet, so I don't have my equipment permanently set up yet - BUT...I have an H79 and a DV-59AVi and hooked up a temporary connection when the drywall was completed to test out the projector. I am using a 25' HDMI-DVI cable that I bought from ramelectronics.net. I used Episode II as a test DVD and set the HDMI resolution to 720P on the Pioneer - and it looked absolutely incredible (projected on the drywall!!). I was amazed at the image quality and cannot wait for the basement to get finished (2 weeks and counting!). Hope this helps...

Cheers,
Todd

Thanks Todd, that's good to know. Now if only I could see one for myself somewhere near Central PA. Anybody have one setup around here?

I scheduled it for warranty service. Maybe they will decide to just send me a new H79 instead of fixing it :)

Anyone aware of what filter size fits on the Optoma H77/H79? Seems that there is some threading on the lens. Anyone tried a specific size or use a specific method to fit one?

" Don't know about the others behavior at 480p, but I can verify the H79 definately will do it with a upscaled (from my Denon 3910) 720p feed. HTH, Scott " -

Letterbox works on both my former H76 and my current H79 using 720p from my iScan HD scaler. Worked great with the Prismasonic H1000 lens.

Originally posted by kaka
I have used AVIA to calibrate my H79. While the calibration using the Avia was quite simplistic I found the picture to be too dim to my liking if I follow the Avia. I ended up changing all the sittings afterward based on my perference. I wonder how other people who had their H79 calibrated feel about the results. Is it worth to invest in a real calibration such as those by ISF. I just don't want to have the H79 professionally calibrated then going back to my "own settings".

Frank

This is the problem with some THX disks, especialy those with the THX Optimode. It seems that you have to calibrate using the Optimode as the disk is authored so that blacker than black and whiter than white will be made visible - it's intentional. I can't remember who it was, but when they looked at the Optimode test patterns, they ound they had two levels of BTB which were to be kept visible, so if you've set the white and black levels with Avia, which doesn't allow for BTB and WTW, you will be missing this shadow detail and the image will appear to be too dark. Star Wars ep 4 is a perfect example.

You may find the star field a good test to set this level, but try the THX drop shadow test and see how that compare - the THX Optimode is on the disk so it should prove an interesting excersise if nothing else.

Gary.

Originally posted by Craig Peer
" Don't know about the others behavior at 480p, but I can verify the H79 definately will do it with a upscaled (from my Denon 3910) 720p feed. HTH, Scott " -

Craig,
Did you just get a 3910? I don't remember you mentioning that DVD player before. I only ask because I've been considering one for a month but haven't had the time to borrow one yet. What do you think about this machine with the H79? Is it a noticable improvement from your other DVD setup? Are you connecting via DVI or component?

No, that was Scott. I have my trusty old Panasonic RP56 with the SDI mod ( thanks to the AVS Powerbuy ) done by JVB Digital - in my opinion this works great. Using component cables it looks better than my Bravo D1 over DVI even. Althought the way I have it set up I can use either component or DVI. I'm not buying any more dvd players - this is it! I even have a back up RP56 from eBay in case mine dies.

Sotagear: I got my Denon 3910 becasue of it's stellar reviews on Secrets benchmark reviews. The only one they ranked higher was the 5910. I had the Bravo D2. I was OK with the D2's DVI upscaled pic, just a little annoyed at some of it's ergonomic quirks. I use upscaled 720p from the 3910, picture is great. I got mine in Jan. and I haven't had any issues with it. You have to be careful to get one with a August build or earlier because the later ones aren't passing BTB. And some later models are allegedly having a green push reported which mine also dosen't exhibit. In my never ending grass is greener syndrome (I've about decided it's a sickness :)), I'm thinking about selling the 3910 and trying a 59avi. The 3910 is overkill for me since I don't use any of it's high end audio capabilities. My only complaint with it is it does not handle automatic aspect changes on DVD's with mixed content (switch 4:3 and 16:9 on the fly). They may change it with a firmware update, don't know, they did on the 5910. The Pioneer is supposed to handle this "feature" properly, but it didn't rank nearly as high on PQ as the 3910 so I'm on the fence. I have a permanent indention in my you know what from sitting there :D. If I were recommending, I'd say either of the 2 pricey one's or the D2 woudl be reasonable players. Or there's the SDI mod option and a scaler, which I bet is very nice indeed.

Hope that's helpful, Scott

GetGray, pm me before you put that 3910 up for sale! Frankly, I've about had it with my D1 solely because of its ergonomics. But like you, I'm interested in the 59 avi; for me the HDMI 480i for output to a processor and apparent reliability are the attractions.

Dan

Originally posted by drapp1952
GetGray, pm me before you put that 3910 up for sale! Frankly, I've about had it with my D1 solely because of its ergonomics. But like you, I'm interested in the 59 avi; for me the HDMI 480i for output to a processor and apparent reliability are the attractions.

Dan

I love my 59avi. Great player, and yes, they are dependable.

With the money I could save by buying an Optoma vs other projectors I could buy an outboard scaler and utilize the 59avi's 480i output via hdmi. Should be a killer combo.

I have the Panny s97 with the H79. Right now I have the s97 set to output 720p and have the H79 set to native. With the s97's Faroudja scaler, would this be expected to be a better picture than setting the s97 to 480i and letting the H79 do the scaling?

I know, I know I should just go and try, but just wondering what the minds on this board think.

SpecialK-MD,

One thing that would indicate going with 480i would be the presence of macroblocking at 720p - this player has the Faroujda FL2310 which is known to produce it, though firmware changes in the S97 reportedly reduced it or got rid of it depending on who you read over in the player's big threads in the DVD forum. HDMI doesn't do 480i on this player so it'd have to be via component which is another issue.

If you don't see macroblocking I think the way you're already going is best.

Dan

Originally posted by drapp1952
GetGray, pm me before you put that 3910 up for sale! Frankly, I've about had it with my D1 solely because of its ergonomics. But like you, I'm interested in the 59 avi; for me the HDMI 480i for output to a processor and apparent reliability are the attractions.

Dan Will do. I'm torn. Too much going on right now to worry about it. Maybe a SDI modded player and a scaler if the 59avi won't do. Awaiting the upcoming secrets benchmark review update. I've tried Mr. DVD at Denon in NJ several times, for his input on my one and only issue. Closest I've got was "he's out to lunch". But I'm persistent if anything so I'll keep trying before jumping ship.

Originally posted by Craig Peer
"
Letterbox works on both my former H76 and my current H79 using 720p from my iScan HD scaler. Worked great with the Prismasonic H1000 lens.

Craig,

May I ask did you use a 2.35:1 scope screen with the H1000 lens ? Can you tell me what size screen you are using with the H79 and H1000 ?

Thanks, Mike

Originally posted by drapp1952
SpecialK-MD,

One thing that would indicate going with 480i would be the presence of macroblocking at 720p - this player has the Faroujda FL2310 which is known to produce it, though firmware changes in the S97 reportedly reduced it or got rid of it depending on who you read over in the player's big threads in the DVD forum. HDMI doesn't do 480i on this player so it'd have to be via component which is another issue.

If you don't see macroblocking I think the way you're already going is best.

Dan
Thanks Dan. I haven't seen macroblocking. I am seeing SDE (I think) in my front row which is 10' from a 96"x54" screen. Not really an issue as my wife and I are the primary viewers and we'll be watching from 16' (second row).

Another thing I noticed (and forgive the inane observations and questions as I'm new to FP's) is that there is a faint horizontal band that seems to be slightly darkened pixels on one of the top rows and bottom rows (only seen in bright scenes). Wondering what this is. Hope it isn't my DVI cable. I used fish wire to pull it through the wall last night and it got bent a little. I was able to straighten it but not sure if I did any significant damage. Any way to test this? I'll have to pull out a shorter cable and test with the DVD next to the H79 to see if there is any difference.

Mike, I am using a 2.35:1 screen - an tensioned electric DaLite Cinema Vision screen - 106" x 45.25". I sold my H1000 lens however to help pay for my new H79. I only watch 2.35:1 movies on it. I watch 1.85:1 movies and HDTV on a 92" x 52" HCCV screen ( actually 92" x 69" for 1.33:1 but I only partially deploy it for 1.85:1 ). I'm using a " constant square foot " screen concept. It works great - especially when you're done with the 2.35:1 movie and that screen goes up in the ceiling while the 1.85:1 is coming down. " This is sick " was what my wife said when she first saw it - HA!

Last night we watched the new dvd release of Apollo 13 - OH MY GOD - this movie ( which I have never seen before other than bits and pieces on TV ) looks ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS!!!!! Stunning would be the word. I love my home theater!

Craig, do you mean the IMAX version of Apollo 13? PQ and DTS soundtrack-wise, I believe it needs to be considered a reference DVD. The launch sequence is demo material par excellance - volume up, DTS, subwoofer turned up a bit....

Dan

No - haven't watched that disk yet. The regular theatrical is the one we watched last night, which is also great looking, and the sound track ( while not as good perhaps as the DTS on the Imax version ) still rocks!

Did a search and looked at the H79 manual, but didn't see anything. Can someone confirm how much vertical lens shift the H79 has? Is it full screen height?

Originally posted by Justins123
Did a search and looked at the H79 manual, but didn't see anything. Can someone confirm how much vertical lens shift the H79 has? Is it full screen height? It's spec is that it will go from horizontal with the top edge to horizontal with the bottom edge of the screen, or anywhere in between. A few users reported at throw lengths of about 14' that they actually got theirs about 6" beyond that spec. You'd have to test that yourself and make sure it didn't cause any image problems at the extreme shift. For design or planning purposes I'd cound on even with top (or bottom).

HTH, Scott

Does the H79 have vertical and horizontal image shifting in the menu when using DVI or is it still limited to analog inputs?

Pretty sure it won't do it on DVI. Only on other inputs. I say this because when I discovered the letterbox mode worked for my anamorphic lens plans, I found a couple lines of overscan on the top edge when in letterbox mode. I tried the shift to see how it would affect it, but couldn't when in letterbox and DVI which is what my DVD is hooked up with. My HD cable is on component and I can shift it becasue I tried pulling up the discrete function with my new AV-RS232 interface.

Originally posted by RobZ
Does the H79 have vertical and horizontal image shifting in the menu when using DVI or is it still limited to analog inputs?

No esp. in native mode the mode you want to be in when using dvi to get perfect pixel mapping.

Daniel.

Justins123,

There is more lens-shift available if the projector is table-mounted. I think I read 100% lens-shift table mounted and 50% lens-shift ceiling mounted.

-ftlee

Originally posted by ftlee
Justins123,

There is more lens-shift available if the projector is table-mounted. I think I read 100% lens-shift table mounted and 50% lens-shift ceiling mounted.

-ftlee

Why would that be?

Here's the pic out of the manual. I do believe there's more shift with
table mount than ceiling.

I've searched and google'd it but can seem to find a reference for
filters for the H79. I had a quick look at the H79 lens and didn't
notice any threads. How does one install a filter on the H79?

I'm in the throws of investigating screens and was interested what a
SilverStar and a H79 with ND2 filter would look like? As bulb life
increases, I could remove the filter and could still have good brightness?

My H77 is ceiling mounted, and I use a 77mm filter which I place over the lens backwards with the ridge part of the filter overlapping the lens. When you take you hand away, the filter tips forward and the bottom holds it to the lens.

Another way is to use a wide rubber band (one of the new wrist bands may work), half of the band will clamp onto the lens, and the other half onto the filter. You'll need a 72mm filter for that to work though.

The ND2 filter idea is a good one (it reduces the lumens by half). As Krasmuzik points out elsewhere, if you don't mind the look of the image with an nd2 filter in place, then you will be happy with the look of the image without the filter as it reaches the end of its life - the lamp dims to around half brightness. Removing the filter at one stage will give you back some lost brightness and it will then gradualy reduce back to the level you had with the filter by the time the lamp needs replacing.

Gary

Originally posted by ftlee
Justins123,

There is more lens-shift available if the projector is table-mounted. I think I read 100% lens-shift table mounted and 50% lens-shift ceiling mounted.

-ftlee This is incorrect. It has 100% in both directions, just as the manual page shows. It makes no difference ceiling or table. Presuming a upside ceiling mount, you have not changed any optical position if it's upside down or on a table right side up, the image is still shifted it's max toward the top (logo side) of the projector case.

The spec is as I quoted previously. Lens is even with top or bottom of screen, plus some reported extra possible. If you don't mind some digital keystone adjustment (I do mind), then you can go higher and adjust the distortion digitally.

If you tilt the pj only a little, you can sometimes get around using keystone by pulling out the screen a little at the bottom.

Gary.

Originally posted by GetGray
This is incorrect. It has 100% in both directions, just as the manual page shows. It makes no difference ceiling or table. Presuming a upside ceiling mount, you have not changed any optical position if it's upside down or on a table right side up, the image is still shifted it's max toward the top (logo side) of the projector case.

The spec is as I quoted previously. Lens is even with top or bottom of screen, plus some reported extra possible. If you don't mind some digital keystone adjustment (I do mind), then you can go higher and adjust the distortion digitally.

That certainly makes more sense to me.

Originally posted by Craig Peer
Mike, I am using a 2.35:1 screen - an tensioned electric DaLite Cinema Vision screen - 106" x 45.25". I sold my H1000 lens however to help pay for my new H79. I only watch 2.35:1 movies on it. I watch 1.85:1 movies and HDTV on a 92" x 52" HCCV screen ( actually 92" x 69" for 1.33:1 but I only partially deploy it for 1.85:1 ). I'm using a " constant square foot " screen concept. It works great - especially when you're done with the 2.35:1 movie and that screen goes up in the ceiling while the 1.85:1 is coming down. " This is sick " was what my wife said when she first saw it - HA!

Last night we watched the new dvd release of Apollo 13 - OH MY GOD - this movie ( which I have never seen before other than bits and pieces on TV ) looks ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS!!!!! Stunning would be the word. I love my home theater!

Hi Craig,

Did you find using the anamorpic lens more hassle than it was worth ?
I was really interested in using an anamorhic lens, however after reading up about them I don't think it would be a good option for me as I am limited to a 96" wide screen. They seem like they would be great if you have say 120" or so in width to play with. If I was to use a scope screen in my situation, I would really be giving up alot of screen area for 16:9 material don't you think ?

I am thinking of getting a Denon 3910 or 5910 dvd player to go with a H79.
I read this on the 5910 thread about using DVI instead of HDMI for projectors that are DVI only :


"Since you are converting to DVI you would just be using RGB out. That is unfortunate. The best output of the 5910 is via pure HDMI using the YCbCr colorspace. This is a true 10 bit video output. Selecting RBG for colorspace limits the output to 8 bit so you may see more contouring."

Does anyone know if the H79 is 8 or 10 bit processing over DVI ?

If the H79 is only 8 bit it will not be taking full advantage of the 3910 or 5910 through DVI right ?

Originally posted by nelson4u


Does anyone know if the H79 is 8 or 10 bit processing over DVI ?

If the H79 is only 8 bit it will not be taking full advantage of the 3910 or 5910 through DVI right ?

I believe that DVI is only 8 bit, that is the spec for the standard, so the H79 would be .

Originally posted by nelson4u
Hi Craig,

Did you find using the anamorpic lens more hassle than it was worth ?
I was really interested in using an anamorhic lens, however after reading up about them I don't think it would be a good option for me as I am limited to a 96" wide screen. They seem like they would be great if you have say 120" or so in width to play with. If I was to use a scope screen in my situation, I would really be giving up alot of screen area for 16:9 material don't you think ?

I think that you should consider a constant area screen. If you have 96" to work with, you could use an AR screen of about 2.0:1 . Watch scope movies @ 94 X 40 and 16:9 material @ 80 X 45. This produces excellent results in that both images "appear" to be the same size because the scope size is 26 sqft and the 16:9 is 25 sqft. You get the best of both worlds. :)

However, the major drawback is that masking is more of a challenge v scope..........4-way instead of 2-way......but absolutely worth the effort.

" Hi Craig,
Did you find using the anamorpic lens more hassle than it was worth ?
I was really interested in using an anamorhic lens, however after reading up about them I don't think it would be a good option for me as I am limited to a 96" wide screen. They seem like they would be great if you have say 120" or so in width to play with. If I was to use a scope screen in my situation, I would really be giving up alot of screen area for 16:9 material don't you think ? " -

I do think one gives up too much screen area. I my mind the ideal system would be 3 screens ( I'm close with 2 ) - a 106" x 45.25" Scope screen gives you 33.3 square feet of screen, a 92" x 52" HDTV screen gives you 33.22 square feet and a 80" x 60" 1.33:1 screen gives you 33.33 square feet. I have compromised by using my 92" x 69" electric screen as a 92" x 52" HDTV screen when only partially extended, and using it fully deployed with the HT1000 !!

Another thing I noticed (and forgive the inane observations and questions as I'm new to FP's) is that there is a faint horizontal band that seems to be slightly darkened pixels on one of the top rows and bottom rows (only seen in bright scenes). Wondering what this is. Hope it isn't my DVI cable. I used fish wire to pull it through the wall last night and it got bent a little. I was able to straighten it but not sure if I did any significant damage. Any way to test this? I'll have to pull out a shorter cable and test with the DVD next to the H79 to see if there is any difference.



I have the same observation and I noticed it right out of the box when I was testing my unit with a short cable.

Originally posted by GetGray
This is incorrect. It has 100% in both directions, just as the manual page shows. It makes no difference ceiling or table. Presuming a upside ceiling mount, you have not changed any optical position if it's upside down or on a table right side up, the image is still shifted it's max toward the top (logo side) of the projector case.

The spec is as I quoted previously. Lens is even with top or bottom of screen, plus some reported extra possible. If you don't mind some digital keystone adjustment (I do mind), then you can go higher and adjust the distortion digitally.

I'm a little confused. Wouldn't 100% vertical lens shift mean the lens could be half screen height above or below the top/bottom of the screen? 50% would mean even with top/bottom of screen. What am I missing here?

I agree their terms stink. But whatever their description implies, the fact is what it *means* is from top to bottom edges. From emperical testing I can vouch for that on both a sold H77 and H79 which I have.

"Another thing I noticed (and forgive the inane observations and questions as I'm new to FP's) is that there is a faint horizontal band that seems to be slightly darkened pixels on one of the top rows and bottom rows (only seen in bright scenes). Wondering what this is. Hope it isn't my DVI cable. I used fish wire to pull it through the wall last night and it got bent a little. I was able to straighten it but not sure if I did any significant damage. Any way to test this? I'll have to pull out a shorter cable and test with the DVD next to the H79 to see if there is any difference."



"I have the same observation and I noticed it right out of the box when I was testing my unit with a short cable."

I think what you guys are seeing is the border frame. You shouldn't make it part of the picture fill. Push that out to the black screen borders.

If you want to see the frame real good, set the brightness all the way up and down zoom the image. The frame will be on all sides. These frames are on all the projectors I have.

Originally posted by GetGray
I agree their terms stink. But whatever their description implies, the fact is what it *means* is from top to bottom edges. From emperical testing I can vouch for that on both a sold H77 and H79 which I have.

OK thanks for the help GetGray.

Anyone out there ceiling mounting this (or any other projector with this much lens shift) that has high ceilings? I've a 10 foot ceiling, which means this thing is really going to look like its hanging low. I'm afraid it may not be very pleasing to the eye.

I'm thinking I could use an adjustable column and just push the projector up out of the way when not using it.

Originally posted by Justins123
OK thanks for the help GetGray. Anyone out there ceiling mounting this (or any other projector with this much lens shift) that has high ceilings? I've a 10 foot ceiling, which means this thing is really going to look like its hanging low. I'm afraid it may not be very pleasing to the eye.

I'm thinking I could use an adjustable column and just push the projector up out of the way when not using it. A pushup column would be pretty cool if you could rig it automatic (or easy). And had some place for the pole to go in the space above. Maybe a hydraulic car door lift so you actually pull it down and lock it. then let it go up when done....

I'm currently using a Vogel mount. You can get a *REAL* long pole made just for it. Mine's hanging from a 9' ceiling (unfinished right this sec though). It dosen't bother me as much as I thought it would, it's down maybe 16-18" becasue I prefer my screen a little low. Depends on your room I suppose and it's other functions. Painting it to match the ceiling would go a long way toward camoflage I'd think. The white box of the H79 isn't the spiffiest color they could have chosen IMO either, I'd rather have seen it darker.

For a similar projector there really aren't many other options. They all have about this same shift range (i.e. Marantz S4, Sim 300E). Except the Infocus 7210 which has a fixed shift that's farther, but it's relatively *very* loud, and in my opinion dosen't have as nice a picture. But it's bright, real bright.

They make some devices to raise and lower into a drop ceiling but they are pricey. A search for projector lifts should produce some hits.

Originally posted by GetGray
A pushup column would be pretty cool if you could rig it automatic (or easy). And had some place for the pole to go in the space above. Maybe a hydraulic car door lift so you actually pull it down and lock it. then let it go up when done....

Something hydraulic would be very cool. Ceiling is concrete though, so no space above it. Right now I was just thinking of using a Cheif adjustable column, but instead of using a bolt/nut to lock it in place, figure out something quicker to change out.

Originally posted by GetGray
I'm currently using a Vogel mount. You can get a *REAL* long pole made just for it. Mine's hanging from a 9' ceiling (unfinished right this sec though). It dosen't bother me as much as I thought it would, it's down maybe 16-18" becasue I prefer my screen a little low. Depends on your room I suppose and it's other functions.[/B]

Basically my place is a huge open loft, so I'm sure it will be an eyesore. Maybe my calculations were messed up, but I was figuring mine would have to be something like 45" from the ceiling. 100" screen, 49" screen height, 120" ceiling.


Originally posted by GetGray Painting it to match the ceiling would go a long way toward camoflage I'd think. The white box of the H79 isn't the spiffiest color they could have chosen IMO either, I'd rather have seen it darker. [/B]

Yeah I agree. White is the last color I'd like it to be. Might paint it black as you suggest.

Originally posted by guitarman
"Another thing I noticed (and forgive the inane observations and questions as I'm new to FP's) is that there is a faint horizontal band that seems to be slightly darkened pixels on one of the top rows and bottom rows (only seen in bright scenes). Wondering what this is. Hope it isn't my DVI cable. I used fish wire to pull it through the wall last night and it got bent a little. I was able to straighten it but not sure if I did any significant damage. Any way to test this? I'll have to pull out a shorter cable and test with the DVD next to the H79 to see if there is any difference."



"I have the same observation and I noticed it right out of the box when I was testing my unit with a short cable."

I think what you guys are seeing is the border frame. You shouldn't make it part of the picture fill. Push that out to the black screen borders.

If you want to see the frame real good, set the brightness all the way up and down zoom the image. The frame will be on all sides. These frames are on all the projectors I have.

Thanks for clarifying Tom. Thinking that there was something wrong with a particular component was driving me nuts. Unfortunately I can't push it out with 2.35:1 material as I have a non-masked 16:9 screen. I know everyone recommends masking but I can't justify the expense when it looks so good right now unmasked. Similar argument for the anamorphic lens.

With 2.35 you still shouldn't see a border if your blacks are set at the lowest black point.

With Avia for digitals we use the all black pattern with moving bars, it's under grayscales and levels /black & white levles.

Best way is to delete the left moving bar, bring it back until you can just faintly see it, delete your on sceen menu to take a good look.

I am really torn at the moment, trying to decide which way to go. Presently I have a BenQ 8700+ that has been ISF'd. The final output from the projector puts out 6.5 ft-lamberts off a 104" Carada 1.4 gain BW. I believe I need more light than that. I demo'd the H79 and H77 at the Canadian service centre in Thornhill but they had a 60" diag. screen set up in a boardroom with windows that let tons of light in. Not the best way to see brightness and contrast from a projector. I enlarged the picture as much as I could, to around 84" diag. and watched the portion that hit the screen instead of the wall. The picture looked good from both projectors, the Spiderman 2 scene with Toby dragging his bike past MJ's posters looked horrible on the H77 (jerky movement, video noise and clayface was front and centre). I pointed this out to the Acct. Manager who underplayed it a bit but her assistant commented how glaring the problem was in that scene. By the way, the H79 played it flawlessly.
Anyways, my dilemma! Go by a less than perfect demo environment to determine the brightness of the H79, which will end up projecting on a 100" diag. Firehawk or go with the proven brightness champ Infocus 7210 firing on the same Stewart screen? Undetermined light output, great blacks versus light cannon with gray blacks?
By the way, I've read the entirety of all major threads concerning the H77, H79, 7205, and 7210 in the last week or so, my brain hurts!

For those of you H79 owners with a Bravo D1/D2 or Momitsu or any other (are there any?) DVD player that has the capacity to put out a customized signal, or HTPC, I highly recommend you try out 1280x720 @ 48 Hz for film material DVDs. Use the Native setting. As pointed out by Bruno and Darin in this thread the H79 is capable of receiving this signal - you'll see it acknowledged as such by the pj when you feed the source.

I tried out the settings after plugging in 1280x720 (HDTV) and 47.952 Hz (NTSC 2:2 pulldown) at this site (http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/customdvi.htm) and they work on the H79. Then look at the very opening scene in The Fifth Element where the small asteroids are flying by, for starters.

Dan

Originally posted by drapp1952
For those of you H79 owners with a Bravo D1/D2 or Momitsu or any other (are there any?) DVD player that has the capacity to put out a customized signal, or HTPC, I highly recommend you try out 1280x720 @ 48 Hz for film material DVDs. Use the Native setting. As pointed out by Bruno and Darin in this thread the H79 is capable of receiving this signal - you'll see it acknowledged as such by the pj when you feed the source.

I tried out the settings after plugging in 1280x720 (HDTV) and 47.952 Hz (NTSC 2:2 pulldown) at this site (http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/customdvi.htm) and they work on the H79. Then look at the very opening scene in The Fifth Element where the small asteroids are flying by, for starters.

It sounds like you saw it working, but I'm not sure that I would expect it to. The reason is that when Guy Kuo was over and we looked at some stuff with AVIA Pro with my Momitsu we found that the Momitsu would just stay in video mode and not switch to film mode. So, I don't see how it could do 2:2 pulldown and lock to that if it is staying in video mode. However, maybe I am just missing something. The opening of "Shakespeare in Love" with the pan down into a theater is a good one for looking at judder issues. I have a friend with an H79 and I have a Momitsu. I'm pretty sure he would be interested in getting a Momitsu if this works.

--Darin

Darin, I look forward to what you find. The H79 does show "1280x720 48 Hz" as the signal. Other evidence of change is some flickering on introductory images such as film ratings, etc., but once the film starts things look very improved in terms of smoothness and viewer fatigue. I suppose this could be placebo effect but whatever it is I'll stay with it. There still might be some tweaking to be done on those custom settings specifically for the H79. I'll see if I can get that info from Optoma - or maybe Tom could do so quicker :)

Dan

Anybody know what the (2) 12v relay ports do on the back of the H7x's? Manual doesn't say, I haven't pulled out a voltmeter to see. I presume one of them produces 12v when the PJ comes on, dunno. I'd like to know their load limits and behavior.

Thanks,
Scott

Finally assembled my new HTPC over the weekend and calibrated my replacement H79. The HTPC is connected via DVI and sending 1280x720 to the projector.

First, let me say that my new HTPC, driven by a Geforce 6600 and TheaterTek 2.1.1, provides the finest DVD playback I've ever seen. Period. The combination of the 6600 series' deinterlacing (including hardware-driven 3:2 pulldown and motion adaptive deinterlacing for video material) and newer scaling algorithm is amazing. My previous HTPC was quite good (and offered the best DVD playback I'd seen), but the new one is even better than I'd hoped. I'm also very impressed with the slick Windows Media Center 2005 interface. It has me once again contemplating a media server and PCs connected to all the TVs in my house.

I was also suprised to find that the H79 has no problem syncing at 1080p/60Hz via DVI. You read that right. 1080p@60Hz. I haven't tested DVD playback at this resolution yet, only viewed the desktop. If HD-DVD and BluRay support native 1080p output via DVI/HDMI, H79 owners should be good to go. The best results may still be achieved with the HD-DVD/BluRay player sending downconverted 720p, but it's nice to know the H79 provides the option.

As for my replacement H79, it's definitely proof that there's a fairly wide variance in manufacturing quality on this unit. This new H79 has much more even focus across the screen and better geometry than the H79 I had previously. I couldn't verify this until I had an HTPC connected since pixel-perfect test patterns are the only way to truly test a digital projector's focus. I'm very happy with this H79 and hope it doesn't develop any problems necessitating another replacement.

I ran through Avia PRO with Progressive Labs, and the CIE chart still comes out the same. Reds are oversaturated. Do I find it objectionable? Yes and no. While the perfectionist in me longs for more accurate reds, especially after having seen the nearly perfect colors of a calibrated Sharp 12K, the H79 provides so many other benefits that I can ignore the red oversaturation. The rest of the primaries and secondaries are all close enough to be considered quite good, and the post-calibration contrast and brightness are very satisfying.

I still think the H79 is the best value in its price range, and it's superior to at least one model (300E) that costs thousands more.

thirdkind: Thaks for the update. I might have to pick your brain on your HTPC. I'm considering one myself in lieu of my Denon 3910. Think it does as well/better on video?

Anyway I must say I was holding my breath to see how your new unit went. Breathed a sigh of relief to hear you got a good unit and didn't see anything esle wrong that I might have missed :)

Thirdkind,

Do you have a way to post your CIE chart? Please also list your D65 contrast and brightness numbers.

Thanks

I'm hoping to move into a new house in the next few months and will likely upgrade my HT setup. My current plan is for a contstant height setup using the H79 and one of the prismasonic h1000 lenses. I see that Carada sells a 135" 2.35:1 screen with 1.4 gain (for a really nice price). That would give about 12ftl with a new bulb(in low), and would be much brighter for hdtv. As the bulb aged a bit I could use the high brightness setting for the bulb when using the full screen and low when viewing 16:9. I know that is a big screen, but I'm hoping the brightness of the Optoma will be enough. Has anybody tried a similar setup with that big of scope screen?

I currently have a ptl300 panny with 1500H on the bulb on a 120" Goo CRT white screen. I'm happy with the brightness of this as long as all lights are off. I'm guessing I"m likely getting 8-10ftl now. (assuming panny likely putting out 200-300lumens and screen gain of around 1.3 or so).

Daniel,

Here's what the charts look like

Thirdkinds
http://www.go-racecar.com/HTStuff/H79/2005-03-19_CIE_Chart.jpg

My H79 w/tri-chromat sensor.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79factorycie.jpg

w/Gregtag 1eye
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79factory1eyecie.jpg

We're still debating the problem between the two calibration systems. Hey anyone remember what their CIE looked like with the H77?

Here's a CIE chart I saved from laaudiofile' H77 review. Looks a little better than the stock H79, but the key point is red is the best color.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77cies.jpg

"Display Primaries
The primary colors produced by the Optoma H77 were measured from our 100" Stewart FireHawk filmscreen using the GretagMacbeth Eye-One Pro Spectrophotometer along with the Milori ColorFacts software. The CIE chart shows where the ideal primaries are located with the smaller three points joined by the darker lines. The measured primary colors are indicated by the red, green and blue markers connected together with the white triangle. Only colors inside the triangle can be produced by the projector. This is one of the most accurate set of colors that we have measured out of the box on any projector."

"Only colors inside the triangle can be produced by the projector. "

What does this mean for thirdkinds red if it's outside the triangle?

Originally posted by guitarman
Daniel,

Here's what the charts look like

Thirdkinds
http://www.go-racecar.com/HTStuff/H79/2005-03-19_CIE_Chart.jpg

That's not my chart. It's Scott's.

Originally posted by guitarman
"Only colors inside the triangle can be produced by the projector. "

What does this mean for thirdkinds red if it's outside the triangle?

I believe he's referring to the plotted triangle (the actual color gamut reproduced by the projector), not the colorspace triangle (the ideal color gamut).

Originally posted by thirdkind
That's not my chart. It's Scott's. NOPE, that's not MY chart. Look closley, that must be a COLORFACTS CIE with RED off. I use Optic One, CIE's look different ;), Cheers, Scott

Originally posted by GetGray
thirdkind: Thaks for the update. I might have to pick your brain on your HTPC. I'm considering one myself in lieu of my Denon 3910. Think it does as well/better on video?

I'll see if I can find some video material in my collection and try it out. Do Avia and DVE have video test material?

The first thing I noticed was how well my HTPC handles the DTS intro on my Superbit discs (the one with the giant disc that has "the digital experience" fly into the frame and then explode into a starscape or something). I'm not sure what's up with that intro, but it always produced nasty combing artifacts on previous HTPCs and software. Now it's rendered very smoothly.

I think most of 20th Century Fox's DVDs have a blue introductory logo that's video-based. I'll give that a try as well.

gobravitch, I estimate you'll be in the ball park going for 8-10 fL. My bulb's 200 hours old and I'd guess the fL I'm seeing is at least in the high teens with a 2.8-3 gain High Power, 133" diagonal. I'll do a measurement tonight to get a number - for my current bulb age at least.

thirdkind, that's interesting and good news about the H79 accepting 1080p at 60 Hz. I'm curious about what you think of 1280x720 @ 48 Hz with film material.

Can anyone who has the RS232 controller tell me if the service menu can be brought up? I'd like to not have to press buttons at the top of the pj with each power-up to get to degamma 04 which I like better than the default gamma.

Dan

Originally posted by GetGray
NOPE, that's not MY chart. Look closley, that must be a COLORFACTS CIE with RED off. I use Optic One, CIE's look different ;), Cheers, Scott

Doh! Sorry Scott.

How about that. A Colorfacts CIE chart that shows the same oversaturated red primary as Progressive Labs/OpticONE.

Originally posted by thirdkind
I believe he's referring to the plotted triangle (the actual color gamut reproduced by the projector), not the colorspace triangle (the ideal color gamut). That is my understanding. The display device can only go so far red and only so far blue for instance. It can make anything in between those points, but nothing outside of it's own primary triangle. The primary points mark the limits of the devices to produce other colors with a mixture of the primaries. Anything in the CIE triangle that gets clipped is a color the PJ can't make, anything outside the triangle is a color it can make that does not lie in the spec.

Originally posted by thirdkind
A Colorfacts CIE chart that shows the same oversaturated red primary as Progressive Labs/OpticONE. Yes, I thought you'd like that :D, had to point it out.

Originally posted by drapp1952
Can anyone who has the RS232 controller tell me if the service menu can be brought up? I'd like to not have to press buttons at the top of the pj with each power-up to get to degamma 04 which I like better than the default gamma. It can not. :( They didn't include service menu activation in their RS232 command set. At least not as far as it is published.

Ok that was Brad's chart on a H79 he tuned for someone else.

Kras questions that his meter might be off. Here's the page
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=507075&perpage=20&pagenumber=42

One thing about the meters. Jimmy here gave me a tip to keep the meters stored in a plastic bag with a dry pouch. Which he was doing with the 1eye so now I keep both meters stored this way. Milori said it was a good idea also.

Originally posted by thirdkind
Doh! Sorry Scott.

How about that. A Colorfacts CIE chart that shows the same oversaturated red primary as Progressive Labs/OpticONE.

Whoever that was should send it in for refurb - that is the classic tilt towards red that happens when the sensors filters go.

I wonder if humidty is the cause of sensor drift. I just leave mine in the office on a tripod. Maybe a suitcase with a keep dry packet is a good idea.

Moisture, that's what they were saying. Jimmy said the moisture will actually destroy the sensor. Sounded severe but I wasn't going to argue.

I pretty confident both my sensors are in good shape. Jimmy kept good care of the 1eye and the Tri-chromat was always kept in the closed Milori hard case. Now I keep both in the hard case but also inside plastic bags with dry pouches.

guitarman

No hard case with the original AVS Immersive powerbuy on the Spyders...guess they added that "freebie" when they raised prices.

Originally posted by csedaniel
Thirdkind,

Do you have a way to post your CIE chart? Please also list your D65 contrast and brightness numbers.

Thanks


Any way you can post? If you'd rather not, I understand. Not trying to restart the great sensor/software debate again, just hoping to see the opticone results :) .

Thanks

Originally posted by drapp1952
Darin, I look forward to what you find. The H79 does show "1280x720 48 Hz" as the signal. Other evidence of change is some flickering on introductory images such as film ratings, etc., but once the film starts things look very improved in terms of smoothness and viewer fatigue. I suppose this could be placebo effect but whatever it is I'll stay with it. There still might be some tweaking to be done on those custom settings specifically for the H79. I'll see if I can get that info from Optoma - or maybe Tom could do so quicker :)

Dan

Dan, I'm trying the numbers from the site with my Bravo D2. The PJ reads out as 1280X720 48Hz.

It fails the Galaxy Quest opening Space ship fly by but it would fail using the players 720p 60Hz setting also.

But the end of Chap 12 The Greatness of Rome in Gladiator is another story. This sequence is excellent for the test. Here in 48hz is plays extremely close to the Denon 1600 using it's 121xxxxx series Faroudja chip. Using the Bravo's preset 720p 60Hz won't do near as well as the 48Hz.
Way smoother pans/jaggies.

Right some of the junk before a movie plays jerky and even combs at times, like the Dreamworks intro etc.

Got anymore test clips? Fifth Element astroids looked smooth, but it plays smooth at 60Hz also. What should I be looking for here?

I ran Panic Room opening and pans are smooth. Star Trek Insurrections smoother with pans.

The projector goes into a slow down sound mode when you toggle between 60Hz and 48Hz.

Thanks for the link it's been interesting.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
guitarman

No hard case with the original AVS Immersive powerbuy on the Spyders...guess they added that "freebie" when they raised prices.

In one of the deals I got part was the Milori road case which has spots for each item. Pretty nice actually. The person at Milori did say the Tri-chromat is much more durable.

Originally posted by csedaniel
Any way you can post? If you'd rather not, I understand. Not trying to restart the great sensor/software debate again, just hoping to see the opticone results :) .

Thanks

I didn't save the chart after my calibration.

I really, really wish degamma04 would stick in the service menu. It's clearly the best curve in there.

Why must the H79 be so buggy? Hopefully a firmware update can address this issue.

Tom, what I have seen with the 48 Hz setting is improved overall smoothness and coherence in the picture. Moving objects are easier to track. Look for scenes with snow falling (Day After Tomorrow is the one I used), and more easily follow each flake. This applies to just about every scene with fast moving objects, like the asteroids in TFE that looked much more "trackable" to me. As you point out, pans are better. Now, I do very occasionally see microstutters after some edits. I speculate these are bad edits.

Dan

Thirdkind, I just sent an email to Optoma tech support asking for a way to make degamma 04 stick; there's no excuse for it not doing so and a firmware fix is in order. It's my main complaint with the pj right now.

Dan

Originally posted by krasmuzik
[B]Whoever that was should send it in for refurb - that is the classic tilt towards red that happens when the sensors filters go.
Well, of course. If the CF meter says it's oversaturated too, it must be wrong! ;)

Originally posted by drapp1952
Thirdkind, I just sent an email to Optoma tech support asking for a way to make degamma 04 stick Dan: Was that recent? Did you get any kind of positive (or otherwise) response?

Thanks,
Scott

Originally posted by csedaniel
Any way you can post? If you'd rather not, I understand. Not trying to restart the great sensor/software debate again, just hoping to see the opticone results :) .

Thanks Daniel: The link referenced prior was:

http://www.go-racecar.com/HTStuff/H79/2005-03-19_CIE_Chart.jpg Brads? results. I think I remember Brad? calibrates professionally FWIW.

My CIE is attached per your request. Reds about identical from my new meter and Brads? CF. My blues look better than his. This was when PJ was brand new, haven't been able to get back to calibrating it since. Haven't had much time to watch, much less calibrate...

Scott, no word back from Optoma on the degamma 04 issue, but I emailed them only an hour ago. I also asked if they could send parameters for the DVI custom settings just to see if they might have suggestions or input there. I'll post when I get a response.

Dan

Great, thanks Dan. Fingers crossed, but hopes aren't too high. My dealer can do a FW upgrade if they'll just do it and release one.

Just catching up on this thread - was the CIE triangle issue covered before because I don't remember seeing it?

As I understand it reading for the Colorfacts help file, the CIE 'shark fin' is the full RGB range of visible light that the human eye can see. The white triangles that are shown within it are the colour gamut that the relevant standards use - such as PAL, NTSC, HDTV etc. The gamut is reduced but I think it relies on the fact our eye is forgiving in certain respects so we don't need all that colour information for us to think we are seeing 'true colour'. The triangle we measure as I see it is the colour gamut the pj is capable of reproducing, so if you skew the colours they can go outside of the triangle, and it isn't necessarily something being faulty, it's just not where it should be.

I'm not sure that last assumption is correct, but I was looking at one of my very first HT1000 CIE charts, and that had red outside of the triangle where people are calling it oversaturated. Later ones were all inside and close to the red and blue primaries, with green being a little towards yellow IIRC. Many DLPs seem to measure that way. My latest HT1000 CIE has red and blue almost spot on with green only a little toward yellow.

the CF helpfile mentions colours being richer and more saturated, not oversaturated, and show CIE representations similar to those we've seen here as being oversaturated, so I don't know if that is significant or not.

I have heard it mentioned that some pjs (HT1000) allow you to alter the RGBYCM points - maybe they allow the points of the pjs gamut to move around and skew the pjs gamut closer to the one you're trying to reproduce. Perhaps in doing that you can get one primary closer to its target at the expense of another, but produce a more balanced gamut - i.e. red is a little more orange (it was operfect before), but now green is more green than it was yellow before the move.

Does that sound reasonable?

Gary.

The Sharp 12K, HT1000, and Yamaha 1100/1200 offer adjustable primaries and secondaries. I had a 12K, and it had a perfect SMPTE-C response thanks to the color adjustments. It also had multiple memories, so it was possible to set up different colorspaces for different sources (NTSC, HDTV, etc.).

I wish more manufacturers would adopt this kind of flexibility.

Yup, the little NEC is certainly very capable. It's a pity they didn't do a 720 pj along similar lines. I'm sure they would have sold a truck load. :)

Gary.

Maybe it's just the bulb needs breaking in to get the CIE charts to settle down. How's Cliff doing on the testing? Wing's still not in, guess he's still in Taiwan. I got a short want list for him.

Gary the NEC is nice but popping the H79 on after viewing the HT1000 for a while. Well the difference is pretty hugh across the board. Especially the fire power, the 79 handles light infraction very well, it can keep a contrasty image even in daylight.

It will be interesting though when NEC unveils their 720p projector. Best would be a Dark Chip 3 with some of the qualities the HT1000 had. They could go the lower priced route though and use the new Ti smaller mirrored chip. I heard the new chip is weak on light output and things will have to be done to compensate (tiny mirrors).

Guys,

It seems I am about to aquire an H79 to use for my demo room to replace the 300e currently there.

PLEASE assure me that the panning and HDMI/DVI syncing issues are no longer there with the H79 that I had with the H77. I have to make this purchase sight unseen and I am basing it on what I saw with the H77 I had previously. The main thing I hated about the H77 was the pans ("clayface") and the fact that it wouldn't recognize my Pioneer 59AVi through HDMI.

so......

A) Does anyone who REALLY saw the panning issues now have an H79 with no issues...........

B) Does anyone have the H79 hooked to a DV-59AVi through HDMI to DVI adapter and/or Gefen switcher?????????

I need real answers real fast, so no BS please and try to keep it to actual experience, not guessing, etc.

Also, what's the latest FW for the H79?

Thanks guys, I'll owe you one:)!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave,

I think you'll have a hard time finding someone who was harder on the H77 than I was when it came to the panning issue. I'm probably Tom's polar opposite in this respect.

Let me assure you that the H79 has panning and motion that is the best you can expect from 1-chip DLP at this point. My previous reference for motion was the Sharp 12K because it very rarely exhibited panning artifacts. The H79 is at least its equal, perhaps even better. I hesitate to say better because it's been quite a while since I've watched a 12K.

I'm actually suprised you feel the 300E is acceptable in terms of pans. I found its panning and motion to be unacceptable given the price, the inclusion of the DC3 DMD, and the 6-segment color wheel. Those last two items should have assured great pans since faster mirrors paired with less color wheel segments should mean plenty of time to flip the mirrors during even complex motion. I found pans on the 300E distracting at times.

The firmware on my H79 is C17. As for the DVI/HDMI issue, I use an HTPC and haven't had to deal with HDCP handshakes.

Thanks Thirdkind, I was hoping you'd respond:)

I too had the 12K and was quite impressed, so I am happy that you report it's at least as good.

I did notice not so great pans with the 300e also, it's just that after the H77, it looked so much better, plus there's other things I did like about the 300e that made it a much better machine than the H77. I was really just waiting until Optoma got their $hit together and made the pj I knew that they were very close to doing, and it appears they did with the H79.

So I guess you're saying that in your opinion the trade to an H79 from a 300e is worth it, hehehe;)?

Anyone out there with an H79/59AVi combo that's working through HDMI???

Funny guys! :)

"A) Does anyone who REALLY saw the panning issues now have an H79 with no issues."

" I think you'll have a hard time finding someone who was harder on the H77 than I was when it came to the panning issue. I'm probably Tom's polar opposite in this respect."

Dave, answer to A is zero in 1280X720 60hz, but I have a custom res on the Bravo D2 1280X720 48Hz. Here the very hard clips like FOTR dwarfs rings/ & Journey in the Darkness will show the dither waves effect. Poorly edited clips I figure. Other times the 48hz looks better than 60hz for pans and 2.3 pulldown.

Seems the H79 draws voltage well from it's DVI input. The Bravo will work well with the H79 but not at all with my HT1000. I have another player a Tosh 5709 HDMI which works well the the H79 Also.

There's a couple of guys out there using the 59avi and the H79, maybe they'll chime on.

I think you'll like the blacks and punch of the image compared to the H77 also.
good luck!

Thirdkind, this morning I was messing around with the gamma table and tried 4. I did think 00 had better contrast. Did you try under DVDO to turn on gamma choices? Anyway I did and chose step 2. I'll see if it has a memory hold to the table 4 gamma. Wings still not back yet.

Originally posted by guitarman
Wings still not back yet.

Maybe he's heard about all of the H77 owners that want the H78 upgrade... :)

Later,
Bill

Thanks Tom, I appreciate the input.

I have decided to go with the H79, and I also got an iScan HD+ to go with it. Gawd I hope I made the right choice sight unseen:rolleyes:

I'll take everyone's word for it that the pans are better w/ the H79. I certainly hope so. I am glad to hear that others are using the 59avi with it. I may get the SDI input option on the HD+, so then I'll need an SDI DVD player again. Any opinions on what is better, an SDI DVD with the HD+ or just use the 59avi's HDMI output through the HD+ at say 480P??? I know the 59avi can put out 480i through the HDMI connector, but from what I know the HD+ can't accept 480i on it's DVI input, correct? What I really want again is the ability to go with 48Hz for the elimination of judder and I think the only way is using SDI or analog 480i with the HD+.

How much is it to get the 59avi modded with an SDI output? I am pretty sure if I remember correctly it can be modded. I guess I'll go check out the processor forum again to read up on the HD+. It's been a while since I've been there;)

Here's a post from at least one guy that's got the 59avi with the H79.

"Thwockage
my basement isn't done yet, so I don't have my equipment permanently set up yet - BUT...I have an H79 and a DV-59AVi and hooked up a temporary connection when the drywall was completed to test out the projector. I am using a 25' HDMI-DVI cable that I bought from ramelectronics.net. I used Episode II as a test DVD and set the HDMI resolution to 720P on the Pioneer - and it looked absolutely incredible (projected on the drywall!!). I was amazed at the image quality and cannot wait for the basement to get finished (2 weeks and counting!). Hope this helps...

Cheers,
Todd"

Wow, thanks Tom. I remember seeing that post now and I appreciate you reposting it for a lazy guy like me who forgot to use the search button;)!!!

Doesn't Craig Peer also use an iScan HD+ with his H79???

I am using a iSCAN HD (not the + model) with my H79. Works fantastic. SJ

What input and DVD player are you using...SDI, YUV, etc.???

Craig uses an SDI based RP56 with the iScan HD+ and 2.35 setup.

Wings not back yet,

Originally posted by Ursa
Maybe he's heard about all of the H77 owners that want the H78 upgrade... :)

Later,
Bill

I sure hope that upgrade works with NTSC units. You know if it's feasable they'll most likely work it out here. I'll tell him just charge the similar amount the UK guys are covering for all the work invovled. We'll see

Originally posted by guitarman
Thirdkind, this morning I was messing around with the gamma table and tried 4. I did think 00 had better contrast. Did you try under DVDO to turn on gamma choices? Anyway I did and chose step 2. I'll see if it has a memory hold to the table 4 gamma. Wings still not back yet.

I didn't do contrast measurements when I calibrated my previous H79. All I noted was the gamma curve itself, and degamma table 04 provides a much better gamma curve and greyscale. Table 00 has some fairly wide swings in color temp. If I calibrate 105 IRE to D65 (which I do to minimize tints in bright highlights) and say 25 IRE to D65, I see variances of over 300K at the middle IREs, which measure anywhere from 6150K to 6750K. Table 04 is much flatter and closer to D65 across the whole IRE range.

I didn't change any other settings in the service menu. I'll poke around some more tonight.

There must be a way to get gamma table selections to stick. If not, why even provide the option of changing them?

My machines tuned with the 00 gamma which probably has something to do with the difference I saw today. I had Men in Black II going and just hitting the 00 to the 4 gamma I could see more ANSI contrast with 00.

Maybe the Dpro3 area does something to save. It's was in the off mode at stock. There's about 5 gammas there also. Not really sure what Dpro3 is all about anyway, I've always left it at stock.

Well I finally pulled the trigger on a projector and the H79 is on the way from AVS as I type this.

I'll be lighting up a 100" firehawk. I'll be using a Lumagen HDP scaler, sdi-modded RP-91, and Motorola 6412. I've also got access to Sencore ColorPro IV for calibration, which hopefully I'll be able to figure out.

I'll post pictures once everything is up and running.

Originally posted by thirdkind
There must be a way to get gamma table selections to stick. If not, why even provide the option of changing them? As a software engineer I'm finding your repeated comments on this interesting. There is no reasonably complicated piece of software that doesn't have any bugs. You make it sound like they did this on purpose just to upset you. From where I sit it just looks like a bug in the program that saves settings and restores them and I would expect Optoma to fix this with their next software update.

Maybe I'm being too tough, but it seems a little bit like me posting, "Why did you have that typo? That's dumb. It doesn't make any sense for you to do that."

And no, with a bug like this there doesn't have to be a way for you to get them to save and most likely won't be. Chances are pretty slim that it won't require a software change to fix.

--Darin

Originally posted by darinp2
As a software engineer I'm finding your repeated comments on this interesting. There is no reasonably complicated piece of software that doesn't have any bugs. You make it sound like they did this on purpose just to upset you. From where I sit it just looks like a bug in the program that saves settings and restores them and I would expect Optoma to fix this with their next software update.

Considering they basically took an already existing projector, dropped in a new DMD, and pushed it out the door, I do find something this basic to be disappointing. Why? There's a degamma table in the projector that provides excellent results. One day with the projector told me this, and I'm no engineer.

Why is it not the default?

You forget, or possibly don't know, that Optoma currently requires projectors to be shipped back to their facilities in CA for firmware updates. Customers can't do it themselves as far as I know.

This makes "minor" bugs like this one seriously annoying. I'm confident it can be fixed with a firmware update, but I'm not happy about throwing my H79 back in the box and losing it for a week or two plus paying the cost of shipping. Besides, the optics are already shaky enough. I don't want to risk the bad effects of the projector getting knocked around during two trips across the country.

I've updated the firmware on numerous A/V components using my HTPC. Why not the Optoma?

If it meant hooking up an RS232 cable and clicking my mouse to get this problem fixed, I wouldn't complain. But the risk to the projector is frustrating and the shipping cost isn't trivial. Basically, I'm paying for them to get something working that should've worked when I bought it.

What happens when the next bug pops up? I ship it back again?


Maybe I'm being too tough, but it seems a little bit like me posting, "Why did you have that typo? That's dumb. It doesn't make any sense for you to do that."

I was an English major. That's exactly how I feel when I see typos, including my own. Attentive writers don't make typos, and attentive software engineers don't let such obvious bugs pass QC.

And if I did make a typo, I'd feel bad about it. Back when I was working at Panasonic, I wrote a lot of the copy you see on the consumer web site. What if I'd listed certain products as having HDMI when they only had DVI, and you purchased the product based on that info?

What would your reaction be? Let me guess: "Oh well, copywriters make mistakes too."

Right.

I've gotta agree with thirdkind here. This is essentially a third generation box with the same fundamental hardware and apparantly, firmware. It shares the same RS232, same remote IR, and at least most of the same hardware. They didn't even manage to change the name of their firmware from H77 on the 79. There was plenty of room for FW improvements on the H77, which empirical evidence shows were ignored, or at least not given any real priority.

But now I know there's a technical writer in the bunch I need to add a signature I suppose.

Cheers,
Scott


**Speels btr than types, specially when in a hury. Plse excuse tpyos

Originally posted by thirdkind
What would your reaction be? Let me guess: "Oh well, copywriters make mistakes too."
It sure wouldn't be something like, "It is asinine for a copywriter to make a mistake."

This is your comment that I thought was over the top:
Seems a bit asinine to include this option in the menu and then not retain the set value after powering down.
And then you just seem to continue it. I think it would be nice for them to fix it also, but whether you have to return the projector or not has absolutely zero to do with whether having a bug is "asinine".

It sounds to me like this error was in the previous models (somebody can correct me if this is wrong). If that is so then I think your point about this one being obvious when I saw no mention of it until the H79 doesn't hold much water.
Originally posted by GetGray
This is essentially a third generation box with the same fundamental hardware and apparantly, firmware. If it is the same firmware and this is such an obvious one, then why didn't someone tell them about it? Or maybe people have been screaming about this issue for over a year and not just for the last month in which case I would be interested in seeing the discussions about this issue with the H77 or H76.

--Darin

The H77 didn't have all the available items in the service menu that the H79 has. I don't recall gamma tables or dual CWI's. One point though, were not supposed to have access to the service menu. Only reason we do is I pryed it out of the Engineer.

"Well I finally pulled the trigger on a projector and the H79 is on the way from AVS as I type this.

I'll be lighting up a 100" firehawk. I'll be using a Lumagen HDP scaler, sdi-modded RP-91, and Motorola 6412. I've also got access to Sencore ColorPro IV for calibration, which hopefully I'll be able to figure out.

I'll post pictures once everything is up and running."

Good stuff Justin, I'm sure you'll be thrilled with the 79. Did you tell Jason guitarman sent you? just kidding!

Originally posted by guitarman
One point though, were not supposed to have access to the service menu. Only reason we do is I pryed it out of the Engineer.
Well, it does beg the question though, why can they not be set in memory/as default? What is their purpose if you lose them? My guess is that Darin is right, and this is a bug, but it is one I would imagine Optoma would have noticed early on since their engineers should have been able to notice the machine's were losing their changed degamma settings. Hopefully for you guys they will address it soon.

Cheers,
Raul

We may be acting up too soon. There is an area in there that turns gamma levels to on. Should know tonight if it effects the other gamma area, maybe they're linked.

I was too bulb cautious this morning to re-fire up to soon to check.

Originally posted by guitarman We may be acting up too soon. There is an area in there that turns gamma levels to on. Should know tonight if it effects the other gamma area, maybe they're linked. Tom: I tried that area and turned Gamma on and off and even tried the different ones in that menu. It didn't have any effect on keeping the settings on the other gama (table) selection. Let us know if you get it to work, I didn't. But like you I wasn't spending a lot of on-off cycles trying. One note of interest though, didn't you say yours was at gamma 00? Mines at 01 by default.

Cheers,
Scott

Originally posted by guitarman
I sure hope that upgrade works with NTSC units. You know if it's feasable they'll most likely work it out here. I'll tell him just charge the similar amount the UK guys are covering for all the work invovled. We'll see

I don't see why not Tom. The H78 I saw was fed via DVI from HTPC 1280 x 720 @60hz, and that's pretty much NTSC. The panning issues were not present in any of the mentioned scenes such as the Spidey 2 bike scene, or a real torture test cgi panning image which was horrendous on the H77.

I'm sure Wing will look into it as the panning issue is genuine and should be addressed IMHO. From Optomas point of view it could prevent some people from buying it, especialy with other HD2+ machines at similar prices (Infocus).

Gary.

Tom:

As long as you are asking, see if there are any unpublished RS232 codes, specifically for activating the service menu. or changing anything in it. Factories typicaly do things in an automated fashion and RS232 would be the way. I can't imagine folks on a assembly line with a IR remote dangling from a necklace or holster to adjust them. Come up with some additional usefull RS232's and I'll buy you a AV-RS232 to take advantage of them. Then anyone with one could use that to set the gamma wherever they want, maybe.

Originally posted by GetGray
Tom: I tried that area and turned Gamma on and off and even tried the different ones in that menu. It didn't have any effect on keeping the settings on the other gama (table) selection. Let us know if you get it to work, I didn't. But like you I wasn't spending a lot of on-off cycles trying. One note of interest though, didn't you say yours was at gamma 00? Mines at 01 by default.

Cheers,
Scott

Definetly stock gamma 00, great a free RS232 - where's Wing when you need him.

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
I don't see why not Tom. The H78 I saw was fed via DVI from HTPC 1280 x 720 @60hz, and that's pretty much NTSC. The panning issues were not present in any of the mentioned scenes such as the Spidey 2 bike scene, or a real torture test cgi panning image which was horrendous on the H77.

I'm sure Wing will look into it as the panning issue is genuine and should be addressed IMHO. From Optomas point of view it could prevent some people from buying it, especialy with other HD2+ machines at similar prices (Infocus).

Gary.


Gary I don't think this will be a tuff sell with Optoma. Thx for the info

Originally posted by guitarman
The H77 didn't have all the available items in the service menu that the H79 has. I don't recall gamma tables or dual CWI's. One point though, were not supposed to have access to the service menu. Only reason we do is I pryed it out of the Engineer.


If I remember correctly, the H77 didn't have the De-gamma tables in the service menu until about FW C16. If you remember with all the problems I had with the H77, they thought it could be fixed with FW. They gave me the ability and software to do FW updates (which I still have BTW:D!!!) so I did all of them from C08 to C16...none of them helped the H77:( The degamma tables showed up somewhere about C14 or 16.

So the point is, the degamma tables are a fairly new SM item.

Originally posted by darinp2
It sounds to me like this error was in the previous models (somebody can correct me if this is wrong). If that is so then I think your point about this one being obvious when I saw no mention of it until the H79 doesn't hold much water.

By "obvious", I meant it didn't take a lot of probing to find it.

1. Turn on projector.
2. Change degamma to 04.
3. Turn off projector.
4. On the next power-up, degamma is back to default.

I think all that Scott (GetGrey) was trying to demonstrate with his comments is that Optoma has a history of ignoring certain problems and lacking attention to detail. No one ever said this same issue was present on previous models.

Were you on the H79 engineering team? Awful touchy about the subject.

Have you guys tried setting the Film/Video/TV menu item to TV and then selected Gamma mode 1?

My review of the H79 will be in the next issue of Widescreen Review.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Can't say that I tried that combo Greg. I guess I'll give it a shot tonight and see how it works.

So you used those settings and left the service menu gamma at default? Would you mind telling us what your resulting gamma was and how well it tracked D65?

Looking forward to your review.

Originally posted by thirdkind
Can't say that I tried that combo Greg. I guess I'll give it a shot tonight and see how it works.

So you used those settings and left the service menu gamma at default? Would you mind telling us what your resulting gamma was and how well it tracked D65?

Looking forward to your review.

I have a rule not to discuss reviews until they are published, then I'll answer any questions that anyone has.

But if I had an H79 and wanted an almost flat gamma value of about 2.28 I wouldn't be mucking around in the service menu ... and I'd calibrate the grayscale to have a dE of 3 or less from 10 to 100 IRE.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Sounds like good advice to me;)!!!

Greg, hopefully your WSR review has some good things to say about the H79. I just purchased one and would hate to spoil the excitement. :)

Originally posted by darinp2
It sounds like you saw it working, but I'm not sure that I would expect it to. The reason is that when Guy Kuo was over and we looked at some stuff with AVIA Pro with my Momitsu we found that the Momitsu would just stay in video mode and not switch to film mode. So, I don't see how it could do 2:2 pulldown and lock to that if it is staying in video mode. However, maybe I am just missing something. The opening of "Shakespeare in Love" with the pan down into a theater is a good one for looking at judder issues. I have a friend with an H79 and I have a Momitsu. I'm pretty sure he would be interested in getting a Momitsu if this works.

--Darin

Video mode and Film mode make sense only when we are in a 60hz situation. It actually mean Video mode 2:2 pull down and Film mode 3:2 pull down. If you output 48hz and are watching a film you want the player to do 2:2 pull down. 24fps x 2 = 48fps. So the Momitsu should stay in Video mode when you switch to 48hz if you want it to work with film.

The best proof that it's working is that every material that is 30fps look really really bad at 48hz:p



Bruno

Guess what my H79 just started doing?

Wild color shifts any time I touch the RGB bias/gain controls.

I give up.

Bruno

But as the wife said the other day "Why are the extras all choppy" and I say "so the film is not all juddery". Silence. "So you can put it back to normal right?" Silence "OK"

Originally posted by gregr

My review of the H79 will be in the next issue of Widescreen Review.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Excellent timing in light of the fact I will be in the market for a new projector in the next few months!

Originally posted by DHarp193
What input and DVD player are you using...SDI, YUV, etc.???

I am using component input from my DVD player and XBOX. Passthrough for my HD Sat receiver (via DVI). I run both DVI and component from the iSCAN HD to my H79. The only time I use component is for XBOX games that run at 720P or 1080i. Otherwise, DVI from the iSCAN to the H79 for everything else. Works great.

Originally posted by Justins123
Well I finally pulled the trigger on a projector and the H79 is on the way from AVS as I type this.

I'll be lighting up a 100" firehawk. I'll be using a Lumagen HDP scaler, sdi-modded RP-91, and Motorola 6412. I've also got access to Sencore ColorPro IV for calibration, which hopefully I'll be able to figure out.

I'll post pictures once everything is up and running.

I am using my H79 with a 100" firehawk. I really like this combination as I sometimes have ambient light in the room for weekend sports watching. The blacks on the firehawk (with the H79) are REALLY good. Almost "inky"... SJ

Originally posted by gregr


My review of the H79 will be in the next issue of Widescreen Review.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Cool! Even though I already have a H79 (which has been rock solid and a real step up from my H77 that I traded in), I'm looking forward to your insights (they are always fantastic). SJ

Originally posted by thirdkind
Guess what my H79 just started doing?

Wild color shifts any time I touch the RGB bias/gain controls.

I give up.
Thirdkind, I have seen this behavior as well. Grayscales sometimes turn different color with different degamma choices, 90 becomes darker than 80 IRE. It usually comes after doing adjustments in the menu for some time and I've noted degamma 04 seems uneffected when the phenomenon occurs. If this color shifting happens again while you're in the service menu, see if you get a strange effect in Avia grayfields where higher IREs look blown out, that can be made to go away when you turn down different gains. This has then fixed the grayscale phenomenon I just described.

Back to the 48 Hz custom DVI setting for a second, I tried Darin's suggestion of checking out the pan of "The Rose" theater at the beginning of Shakespeare in Love and it looks very smooth.

Dan

Originally posted by SJHT
I am using component input from my DVD player and XBOX. Passthrough for my HD Sat receiver (via DVI). I run both DVI and component from the iSCAN HD to my H79. The only time I use component is for XBOX games that run at 720P or 1080i. Otherwise, DVI from the iSCAN to the H79 for everything else. Works great.

I'm thinking of an HD+ as well, my intent was to set the H79 at either
720p or 1080i and let the HD+ scale all my inputs (component and DVI).
Hopefully eliminating the long syncs, particularily with STB . Not sure if
that would work though?

Originally posted by krasmuzik
Bruno

But as the wife said the other day "Why are the extras all choppy" and I say "so the film is not all juddery". Silence. "So you can put it back to normal right?" Silence "OK"


LOL. :D They exact same thing append to me. That why I don't feed the projector 48hz anymore. I bought an Oppo thinking that my image should be now smoother at 60hz. Still waiting for the DVD player to be delivered.

Bruno

Originally posted by hdefjunkie
I'm thinking of an HD+ as well, my intent was to set the H79 at either 720p or 1080i...

Make sure the HD+ is set to output 720P to the H79, otherwise you've just negated the reason to have the iScan in the signal path to begin with, which is superior scaling over the built in scaler of the H79 or any other pj for that matter.

Originally posted by DHarp193
Make sure the HD+ is set to output 720P to the H79, otherwise you've just negated the reason to have the iScan in the signal path to begin with, which is superior scaling over the built in scaler of the H79 or any other pj for that matter.

And set the H79 to Native mode.....

Originally posted by hdefjunkie
I'm thinking of an HD+ as well, my intent was to set the H79 at either
720p or 1080i and let the HD+ scale all my inputs (component and DVI).
Hopefully eliminating the long syncs, particularily with STB . Not sure if
that would work though?
I don't believe the iScan HD+ will scale component input. Just DVI.

--Darin

Originally posted by darinp2
I don't believe the iScan HD+ will scale component input. Just DVI.

--Darin

Bummer, here's what on the DVDO website:

"For applications that do not require HDCP or HD format input scaling on DVI, the iScan HD+ offers no additional benefits."

It looks like the Lumagen VisionHDP might do the trick though.

Originally posted by gregr
I have a rule not to discuss reviews until they are published, then I'll answer any questions that anyone has.

But if I had an H79 and wanted an almost flat gamma value of about 2.28 I wouldn't be mucking around in the service menu ... and I'd calibrate the grayscale to have a dE of 3 or less from 10 to 100 IRE.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Thirdkind, Greg may have a point here about the service menu. Did you notice any color shifts before you made changes with the service gamma table?

The Film/video/TV user choices look like gamma changes to me. I don't think they have anything to do with 2.3 pulldown. Wings not back yet and come to think of it he said something about meeting up with Widescreen review, I think. Greg did you meet the engineer from Optoma?

" Originally posted by darinp2
I don't believe the iScan HD+ will scale component input. Just DVI. " -

I have my Comcast box outputting 720p so no scaling is required - I just use pass thru mode on my iscan HD. Why would one need to scale HDTV to begin with if it is being output as 720p?

Originally posted by drapp1952
Thirdkind, I have seen this behavior as well. Grayscales sometimes turn different color with different degamma choices, 90 becomes darker than 80 IRE. It usually comes after doing adjustments in the menu for some time and I've noted degamma 04 seems uneffected when the phenomenon occurs. If this color shifting happens again while you're in the service menu, see if you get a strange effect in Avia grayfields where higher IREs look blown out, that can be made to go away when you turn down different gains. This has then fixed the grayscale phenomenon I just described.

Back to the 48 Hz custom DVI setting for a second, I tried Darin's suggestion of checking out the pan of "The Rose" theater at the beginning of Shakespeare in Love and it looks very smooth.

Dan

My H77 has the exact same behavior. I don't think it's related to the degamma table you select. In my case not only thing go crazy playing with the RGB gain, and offset put everything turn back to defaut if I press the resync button.

Let me explain. Lets say I use Opticone and try to calibrate an 90IRE windows from AVIA. Out of the box O get to much green not enough blue. I turn my green contrast down from 0 to -10 and move my blue contrast up from 0 to +5. When it's done I press re-sync. I'm back with to much green and not enough blue. But both my cursor are still at -10 and +5. If I adjust again and go from Green contrast from -10 to -15 and blue from + 5 to +10. It won't matter. If the projector resync I'm back to square one.

Bruno

When my 77 did it, if I remember corectly, it only did it on the advanced user adjustments (ARGB), not the service menu. I'd get it about where I like it and touch one of the ARGB's, and I think it was a particular one, maybe green, then the colors woudl visibly jump to some other color. Numbers stayed the same. I think it's the same thing thirdkind saw. I'm getting chicken to fiddle with mine :( And fiddling is half the joy of having one :(

GetGray and Bruno,

If you get into this situation again and have Avia, put on the blended grayfields, especially the one that has high IREs at the top. See if you get a blown-out effect with a clearly demarcated border extending down maybe 1/5th of the way down from the top. Then, turn down R, G, or B one at a time and see the effect creep upward until it's off screen. On my pj this has done away with the apparent abnormality. The resulting picture has looked fine. What is really going on here is certainly beyond me but I assume it is some kind of software glitch.

Dan

Originally posted by drapp1952
GetGray and Bruno,

If you get into this situation again <snip> Dan: I hate to even typ eit but so far mine hasn't done it. thirdkind's is back at it though. It was my H77 that did it. But if mine does it, I'll see what I can tell and record the sequence to reproduce it if possible.

Originally posted by guitarman
The Film/video/TV user choices look like gamma changes to me. I don't think they have anything to do with 2.3 pulldown.

I don't want to discuss the performance of the H79 until the review is published in about three weeks. But since the manual doesn't say what the Film/Video/TV setting does, maybe this will help for now ....

The Film/Video/TV setting doesn't have anything to do with deinterlacing (i.e. 3-2 pulldown detection, inverse-telecine vs original interlaced-video deinterlacing, etc.). The Film/Video/TV settings provide three different sets of 5 gamma curves each. Each set has a different "shape". That's why I suggested that someone looking for another gamma curve might want to try TV mode, gamma 1. I'll publish charts that show gamma value versus input signal amplitude for all 15 of the gamma curves in the WSR review.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Gamma 1 and TV Mode - Aye!

Originally posted by bgosselin
My H77 has the exact same behavior. I don't think it's related to the degamma table you select. In my case not only thing go crazy playing with the RGB gain, and offset put everything turn back to defaut if I press the resync button.

Bruno

Maybe this will help -

Each time you press the Re-sync button the H79 is "set" for DVI-PC levels (0-255). Each time you press the DVI input button the H79 is "set" for DVI-Video levels (16-235). On my unit, switching the DVI level "setting" also made a major difference in the factory grayscale tracking. An easy way to verify that the DVI level "setting" is switching is to use a PLUGE pattern and watch the black level, below black, and just above black brightness levels change while alternately pressing the Re-sync and DVI input buttons.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

This would explain why hitting Re-Sync would raise the black level on my H79.

"The Film/Video/TV setting doesn't have anything to do with deinterlacing (i.e. 3-2 pulldown detection, inverse-telecine vs original interlaced-video deinterlacing, etc.). The Film/Video/TV settings provide three different sets of 5 gamma curves each. Each set has a different "shape"

Yesterday I used the Pluge pattern and could see the gamma changes. TV was making the best grays. I had the PJ set to factory for the test.

Re-sync button I never use it, so I never saw the changes. Good to know about the gamma changes for TV/video/film. Naturally we all figured film is best for film. :)
thx for the info

Greg - any tips for which color temperature to use as well? (yeah, I'm getting greedy; I'm also asssuming that everything that applies to the H79 will generally apply to my H77).

Later,
Bill

Originally posted by gregr
Each time you press the Re-sync button the H79 is "set" for DVI-PC levels (0-255). Each time you press the DVI input button the H79 is "set" for DVI-Video levels (16-235). On my unit, switching the DVI level "setting" also made a major difference in the factory grayscale tracking. An easy way to verify that the DVI level "setting" is switching is to use a PLUGE pattern and watch the black level, below black, and just above black brightness levels change while alternately pressing the Re-sync and DVI input buttons. Wow, in like 2 posts you've provided the 2 most technical tidbits any of us have seen here in a long time. Much appreciated. Can't wait for my Magazine delivery.

I know you don't go into service menu adjustments for the magazine, and to keep users without the right tools from hosing their stuff, but boy I sure wish you'd disect this puppy's SM a little the way you've obviously figured out the regular settings. Optoma has provided nothing to tell *exactly* what each of the SM items do, many of us have found some out by emperical testing (fiddling :)) but still don't have that warm fuzzy we'd like. Anything we can do to bribe you :):D?. Happy to wait till after the article

Cheers,
Scott

Originally posted by GetGray
Anything we can do to bribe you :):D?
I'm sure the purchase of a WR Web membership (or magazine subscription) by everyone reading this thread would be a good start ;)
R.

The coming review made me sign up today.

Originally posted by Raul GS I'm sure the purchase of a WR Web membership (or magazine subscription) by everyone reading this thread would be a good start ;) Too late for that (for me) I signed up last year at CEDIA. Just wish I'd have bought Greg's accupel generator at CEDIA when it was on sale :(. <suck up on> It's THE generator to own <suck up off>:D. Hard to rationalize for one display though.

Originally posted by Raul GS
I'm sure the purchase of a WR Web membership (or magazine subscription) by everyone reading this thread would be a good start ;)
R.

Only once my current subscription gets closer to running out! :D

So if an HTPC is using 0 to 255 with 16 to 235 used correctly as video levels within that range (thus allowing BTB and WTW), which setting do we use with the H79? Wouldn't using 16 to 235 crush BTB and WTW even though it's technicaly using the correct video levels?

Gary.

Originally posted by Raul GS
I'm sure the purchase of a WR Web membership (or magazine subscription) by everyone reading this thread would be a good start ;)
R.

You mean there are people on this forum who do not subscribe to WSR?

Blasphemy!

;)

Wow Greg. All this time I thought you guys were still reviewing laserdiscs!

Originally posted by gregr
I don't want to discuss the performance of the H79 until the review is published in about three weeks. But since the manual doesn't say what the Film/Video/TV setting does, maybe this will help for now ....

The Film/Video/TV setting doesn't have anything to do with deinterlacing (i.e. 3-2 pulldown detection, inverse-telecine vs original interlaced-video deinterlacing, etc.). The Film/Video/TV settings provide three different sets of 5 gamma curves each. Each set has a different "shape". That's why I suggested that someone looking for another gamma curve might want to try TV mode, gamma 1. I'll publish charts that show gamma value versus input signal amplitude for all 15 of the gamma curves in the WSR review.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Greg, could you ask WSR to put your review online on the subscriber's site?

It's killing us to have to wait until May 15th.... :-))))

I agree. It should be put online. Think of it this way, you'll get 20-30 new subscribers today if you do. If not, alot of guys are going to just read it at Barnes and Noble while sippin on a $9 Starbucks mochafrappachino whatever drink.

Originally posted by gregr
Each time you press the Re-sync button the H79 is "set" for DVI-PC levels (0-255). Each time you press the DVI input button the H79 is "set" for DVI-Video levels (16-235). On my unit, switching the DVI level "setting" also made a major difference in the factory grayscale tracking. An easy way to verify that the DVI level "setting" is switching is to use a PLUGE pattern and watch the black level, below black, and just above black brightness levels change while alternately pressing the Re-sync and DVI input buttons.

I wanted to thank you again for this post. When I saw the black levels change, it didn't even occur to me that it could be an issue of PC vs. Studio RGB levels. Who would've thought hitting Re-Sync would cause a change like that?

Last night, I returned the degamma setting in the service menu to default (00) and shut off the Optoma. Today, without entering the service menu at all, I recalibrated with the H79 set to TV mode with gamma at 1. I'm still not sure what caused the shifting colors I experienced on both H79's I've had (probably a software bug), but it didn't happen tonight and I was able to get a very nice greyscale with practically zero banding in any of the test patterns on Avia PRO. This is definitely the smoothest I've ever seen gradients look on any 1-chip DLP.

Perhaps the mere act of entering the service menu causes some wackiness in the H79. Who knows.

Whatever it was, it looks like I can rest easy though and enjoy the projector. For a while there, it looked like this one was going back too. I'm glad it's not, because aside from the oversaturated reds (I still trust Progressive Labs and its results), it's quite a performer.

Originally posted by Craig Peer
" Originally posted by darinp2
I don't believe the iScan HD+ will scale component input. Just DVI. " -

I have my Comcast box outputting 720p so no scaling is required - I just use pass thru mode on my iscan HD. Why would one need to scale HDTV to begin with if it is being output as 720p? You don't really need another box to scale HDTV if you are having another box do it. That is all you are doing in this case. Just having the Comcast box deinterlace and scale 1080i for you. I don't know whether the iScan HD or Comcast box would be better at doing this conversion. I am confident that the next iScan box (the one with HDMI and true 1080i deinterlacing) that will hopefully be out this year will do a better job than the Comcast box at this task though. And hopefully it will be able to do conversion to 1280x720@48Hz with 2:2 pulldown for 1080i film. That would be sweet.

--Darin

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
So if an HTPC is using 0 to 255 with 16 to 235 used correctly as video levels within that range (thus allowing BTB and WTW), which setting do we use with the H79? Wouldn't using 16 to 235 crush BTB and WTW even though it's technicaly using the correct video levels?

Gary.

If you are sure your PC produces black at 16 then go ahead and use the DVI-Video mode. It will pass slightly below black so you can use a PLUGE pattern to adjust the black level (Brightness control). But on my unit the proper black level in this mode (DVI-Video) was with the Brightness Control set to 0 (not true for all other inputs). The DVI-Video mode will pass WTW all the way up to 255, but of course the grayscale deviation above 100 IRE will depend on how you calibrate your grayscale.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Thanka Greg,

I appreciate the info.

Gary.

Originally posted by thirdkind
I wanted to thank you again for this post. When I saw the black levels change, it didn't even occur to me that it could be an issue of PC vs. Studio RGB levels. Who would've thought hitting Re-Sync would cause a change like that?

Last night, I returned the degamma setting in the service menu to default (00) and shut off the Optoma. Today, without entering the service menu at all, I recalibrated with the H79 set to TV mode with gamma at 1. I'm still not sure what caused the shifting colors I experienced on both H79's I've had (probably a software bug), but it didn't happen tonight and I was able to get a very nice greyscale with practically zero banding in any of the test patterns on Avia PRO. This is definitely the smoothest I've ever seen gradients look on any 1-chip DLP.

Perhaps the mere act of entering the service menu causes some wackiness in the H79. Who knows.

Whatever it was, it looks like I can rest easy though and enjoy the projector. For a while there, it looked like this one was going back too. I'm glad it's not, because aside from the oversaturated reds (I still trust Progressive Labs and its results), it's quite a performer.

I noticed service gamma table is different per signal. On mine 00 for DVI, 01 for component. I think we should refrain from hitting the gamma's there since the PJ fights to return to the factory setting, probably for a reason.

Oh I got a reply from Mark at Milori re the software/hardware debate.
http://www.milori.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=169

Sum it up the spectrometer would be the reference. Maybe my eye-one is off and I have bad luck that the Tri-chromat is off by the same amount. Or mabye not. Cliff ever finish his testing? I want to know if I should send the 1eye to gregtag.

I did have time to try using the Image gamma's. Left TV since it showed best grays to start with, also color temp 3 had closet grays. Used gamma one in the picture menu. tracking was good but I ended up with reference gamma 2.55. I used the limiting color method which is red and ends up at plus 15 red-contrast.

I used the Tri-chromat and first tried the recommended 18" and closer to the projector lens. You can't do that because you can't see the menu's. I tried putting white paper in front of the sensor but no go and too much of a hassle. Put the tripod back at the screen. :) There's no way at least with the Optoma you can have the sensor 18" or closer to the lens.

Originally posted by guitarman Cliff ever finish his testing? I want to know if I should send the 1eye to gregtag. [/B]I read your thread on CF's forum, I thought you worded it well and diplomatically. cudos for that.

Here's an update as best as I know... There was originally some concern (by me) not originally voiced here until now, that the 8 segment wheel may have introduced some measurment problems. Because the CA6X (AKA Optic One) measures at a faster rate (6Hz) than the probe used with CF, I was concerned there could be some signal issues if the measurment hit some resonant frequency related to the 8 segment wheel speed. Without going into the gory details of why I thought that, suffice it to say I was the one who got that ball rolling and brought it up as a potential issue. And the issue I had that brought it up turned out to be a defective probe which was promptly replaced. The new probe is the one that produced my graphs. But before discovering that as the problem, and in response to my concern, Cliff bent over backward to determine if the red was right or not. He discussed the issue I suggested with the probe manufacturer (who make the tristimulus probes for both companies). The probe foks considered the issue, felt it wasn't an problem, but to be positive about it, they contacted Optoma for a sample unit to test. It's my understanding they disected it, put it on the bench with their high dollar reference instruments and an ocilliscope to verify without a doubt that there was no wheel speed issues whatsoever and the probe was properly measuring the H7x's as it does with slower wheel speed DLPs. Can't complain about that customer service. Not used to it. It's like calling Optoma and saying "..you know, it would sure be nice if the H79 had a 2 extra controls, high bulb and low bulb..." and then Optoma said 2 days later, "we looked at your suggestion, evaluated it, and we agree. Here you go...". That'd be nice hugh? But I digress :).

As for accuracy, the probe mfgrs said the version 6 probe (as used in the CA6X) measured the x/y coordinates properly in all their tests within 0.001. They were confident the primaries were measured correctly as well as compared to their instruments. They were sending Cliff the details of the primaries test, I haven't seen those results yet. One issue that has been offered by several of the folks in this testing/confirmation chain (who much more color-technical that I) was that CF has something called "constrained primaries" (I believe that's the term). Through use or accidental misuse? of the wizards it is possible this is affecting the output of a CF CIE graph by "holding colors in" that might otherwise measure outside or have negative values. This is my interpretation of what I was told, don't hold anyone to it as what was actaully said. I get the gist of it intuatively but since that get's out of my technical realm it's nothing I could argue or discuss intelligently without knowing the nitty gritty details (mathematical formulas, probe communication details, etc.) and I don't have the desire to learn that.

The bottom line answer was Cliff says his is correct and he said the probe folks said his is correct as well. It was my understanding that the probe folks felt like either probe should produce the correct x/y raw measurments and if the software wasn't using any constraining, the x/y coordinates should be accurate on both probes I believe. I understood that they were within 0.001 on x/y on their test of the H7x.

If one PJ was measured by both systems (3 if you cound the 3 different probes in the topic, CA6X Tri. CF tri., GraytagMcBeth Spec.) and the results didn't match, then I'm confident each mfgr would say theirs was correct, because obviously they all believe in their product. One of these days a 3rd party expert will measure a H7x and it will be interesting to see what their CIE looks like. Maybe some tidbit in the upcoming WSR, we'll see. For now you have to trust something, I trust the measurments I took are close enough. Who knows, a new CF probe may measure mine identically. Hope so. That would put my curiosity to rest.

But even if a trusted 3rd party test matches one or the other, that is, measures over-saturated on red or not, that won't put an end to all our curiosity as to which is right. Unless someone with high dollar instrucments measures everything at the sme time on the same bulb, etc. And with more expensive instruments for comparison.

A silver lining to this is that at least with the H7x's, since we can't adjust the primaries anyway and they are fixed, the point is almost moot. The grayscale produced by by CA6X is visibly correct, so it's doing what I got it to do.

But all of that aside, right or wrong, it's always good to have a fresh calibration on optical (or any) expensive, sensitive instrument. The CA6X shows it's last calibration date, I presume CF will show it's probes dates as well? For my private personal use, I figure 18 months to maybe 24 months will be good enough. If I got a used instrument personally I'd want to start off with a calibration just for peace of mind. If I worked on other's sets (for $$), I'd say it would be appropriate for at least 12 months calibration cycle. I bet either company would recommend that.

Finally, Cliff also said humidity could degrade the probes performance and storing it in a dry place is good, dessicant wasn't necessary but certaintly won't hurt.

Cheers,
Scott

Sounds good it's only $75 for a 1eye re-cal, I'll send it in. Hey kudos to Cliff for the re-sync enlightenment. How come you re-sync fanatics never spotted this? I almost dumped my Bravo D2. All that was need was to calibrate via the re-sync voltage level. I just did it, image is beautiful. Just yesterday I was ready to pull the Bravo out and Ebay bound. Re-sync brought my black moving bars back for brightness tuning.
Thank you Gregr

Originally posted by guitarman
How come you re-sync fanatics never spotted this?

I did. I just chalked it up as more random H79 behavior and didn't attempt to diagnose it because the change simply doesn't make any sense.

Why is the RGB space changed from Studio RGB to PC with a re-sync? Such a setting should be present in the user menu as its own item like I've seen in other displays.

Originally posted by thirdkind
I did. I just chalked it up as more random H79 behavior and didn't attempt to diagnose it because the change simply doesn't make any sense.

Why is the RGB space changed from Studio RGB to PC with a re-sync? Such a setting should be present in the user menu as its own item like I've seen in other displays.

Gotta argee withthat one (too). I never hit resync before. I choose DVI and move on. I've got BTB from my 3910, so now I don't know whare I am. Is this the flow for someone who wants/needs PC levels:

start with component signal
press DVI to move to your DVI input (wait for it to sync, tic, tic, 15 more, tic..)
now, after that sync, pres RESYNC AGAIN (wait for it to (re)sync, tic, tic, 15 more, tic..)
Now you are where you need to be??

That'll suck if it's the case.

I misunderstand?

I'm just glad it works for me. Now I have to test the DVI on the H31, could solve problems the HTPC guys are having.

Hi Everybody,

I have certain queries regarding H79.

1) How is the optics and lens of H79 ?
I mean prismless optical system made of apochromatic glass lenses .

2) Do the lamp differ from H77 which was dim.

3) I read in some review that the internal scaler of H77 produces a bit soft image? Is it the same with H79 ? Is Iscan Ultra HD+ a must for it.

4) Will H76 will be sufficient bright for 123" Stewart Firehawwk ?

5) Is H79 sold in uS are from US or from Taiwan ?

Thanks a lot and looking forward to your answers.

S.B.Hira

"Why is the RGB space changed from Studio RGB to PC with a re-sync? Such a setting should be present in the user menu as its own item like I've seen in other displays."

It makes sense, re-sync to match up with your device. Wonder if it says anything in the manual about it?


S.Hira,
Optics look excellent to me. The blurb I got about the H79 being different from the H77 is many parts are hand picked for top quality.

The Dark3 chip makes for a much brighter images. Better reflection off the mirrors.

Scaling and deinterlacing is excellent also.

I've expanded out the that large of an image with a 1.0 gain screen and the picture was plenty bright. Way brighter with the Dark chip3 also.

The projector line is made in Taiwan. Personally I think thats a good thing. Even in my business Taiwan Products are thought to be of higher quality.
Taiwan has got it goin on! :)

My Nikon D70 digital SLR is made in Taiwan and the quality is very good.

Originally posted by guitarman
[B]"Why is the RGB space changed from Studio RGB to PC with a re-sync? Such a setting should be present in the user menu as its own item like I've seen in other displays."

It makes sense, re-sync to match up with your device. Wonder if it says anything in the manual about it? It dosen't make a damn bit of sense IMO. Not even a little in my wildest stretch of "sense". Mater a fact, I'm more inclined to believe it is a error. They must have their most Junior engineers working on their syncing, it's a real weak point with them. And no, the manual dosen't say anything about it. Sorry.

The manual doesn't say if you use DVI, PC to hit the re-sync button? It might be under trouble shooting. Just fishing

I'm using an HTPC that is properly configured for video playback (digital 16-235 with BTB and WTW viewable).

PC RGB isn't necessarily the correct space just because a PC is the source.

And why should users have to hit the Re-Sync button every time they switch to the DVI input if they want the PC RGB space?

The software and user interface on the H79 are definitely its weakest points.

It does say in the manual re PC to hit the re-sync button if there's something off with the image.

Sure was off for the Bravo, I had no black moving bars, voltage was off. That Bravo gives a super image very glad I can use it now.

Looks like I'm the only winner here, most of you HTPC guys are configured for video anway. No extra button hit for you. ;)

OT, check these amps coming out. I have a 60's Fisher that I use exclusivly for Stereo listening. It destroys the Harmon Kardon 7200 flagship for Stereo.

"New/Old Audio Technologies New Again: Part One

I seem to have missed this out at CES (and the company is completely quiet on its web site), but AKAI is getting back into surround receivers with a pair of tube receivers. Yes, vacuum tubes. The AVR8500 and AVR8510 are 7-Channel Vacuum Tube Audio/Video Receivers. Both receivers use 7 Dual Triode Vacuum tubes (of “Blue Tube Thermionic” design, whatever that is), one for each amplifier. Tubes actually introduce audible distortion to an audio signal, but the distortion is harmonically pleasing, giving the sound a "warmth" that audiophiles crave.

The AVR8500 is rated at 100-watts x 7, and the AVR8510 is rated at 125-watts x 7 and also throws in a universal remote control. Both units support all current surround sound modes from Dolby and DTS. Somewhat uniquely, both models also include HDMI switching capability, bringing tube warmth to the latest surround sound gear and HDTV.

No word on availability, but pricing is astonishingly low: $899 for the AVR8500, $1199 for the 8510. I actually think this is a mistake: tube gear is often ludicrously expensive, and, at this point, AKAI no longer has a strong brand in the U.S. home theater market. AKAI could easily create a few limited edition versions of the 85x0 series at much higher price points to build buzz and audiophile credibility."

Looks nice, but will it sound good? :)
http://www.abend.com/pics/akai-avr85xx.png

Originally posted by guitarman
It does say in the manual re PC to hit the re-sync button if there's something off with the image.

Sure was off for the Bravo, I had no black moving bars, voltage was off. That Bravo gives a super image very glad I can use it now.

"Something off with the image" doesn't sound like a switch for Studio vs. PC RGB. Sounds like it's meant to correct a garbled signal.

And DVI doesn't use voltage.

I use the term voltage becase the last time I had the no moving black bars with a DVD signal Seleco told me that the devices voltage wasn't right. But who cares, the re-sync button fixes my problem. Does this really bother you that much?

Voltage applies to analog connections.

I do feel a general state of agitation with regards to the H79's subpar software implementation, yes. The incorrect and unexpected behavior of that little button caused me a lot of grief during my calibration attempts.

True they don't go into the technical meaning of what the re-sync button does. I'll bet the H31 I have works the same way. Probably the H77 also. I have a 31 so I can check it.

Anyone have any comments on the RS-232 with the H79? I just picked one up but can not decided on remote yet (MX-700/850/ or 3000).

Originally posted by hdefjunkie
Bummer, here's what on the DVDO website:

"For applications that do not require HDCP or HD format input scaling on DVI, the iScan HD+ offers no additional benefits."

It looks like the Lumagen VisionHDP might do the trick though.

I must be missing something here. How do you scale a sattelite or cable signal that only has component out with the HD+ ? I thought the big benefit of the HD+ was to be able to scale standard def like sattelite, cable and VHS ? Does the HD+ only scale DVI ?

What they're saying is that if you want to scale HD, it has to be from a source that has a DVI/HDMI output because the HD+ will not scale HD signals via it's component or RGBHV inputs, only DVI. The other inputs like s-video, composite and 480i component will indeed be scaled via the HD+.

I also think what they're saying is that if you need HD scaling and your HD sources have DVI/HDMI w/HDCP, then get this unit. If not, just get the regular iScan HD, not the "+" version, for scaling only SD sources like you mention.

"Anyone have any comments on the RS-232 with the H79? I just picked one up but can not decided on remote yet (MX-700/850/ or 3000)." -

I started a thread on this. The RS 232 and the MX - 700 work great and solved all my remote problems with my H79 being in an enclosed soffit!

" What they're saying is that if you want to scale HD, it has to be from a source that has a DVI/HDMI output because the HD+ will not scale HD signals via it's component or RGBHV inputs, only DVI. " -

Like I said earlier, if your cable box is putting out HDTV in 720p like my Comcast box, why would you need to scale it? I just use pass thru - it looks great!

As we discussed a while back, the best method is to output native rate from the box and let the processor or projector do the scaling. Cable boxes have lousy internal deinterlacers/scalers.

Anyone outputting native from their box will get the original format of the broadcast (480i, 1080i, 720p, etc.), which is then fed to the projector or scaler.

Thought you guys might like to know this - using ColorFacts I measured different primaries from HTPC DVI desktop (under blue, over red) rather than the perfect blues/reds the Infocus SP7205 gives me - but it was fine with Comcast Video DVI and Component 480i/720p. Same sensor - latest ColorFacts - only difference was internal desktop patterns vs. external patterns (InHD). Something is wierd here!

BTW Tom - InHD test patterns are great for calibrating - dialed in the video decoding and greyscale - Spyder2 sensor worked great at a 2' image width - fit right into the InHD circles. I cheated and used the rotating projector mount to do all the work - skewed the gamma but saved repositioning the sensor!

Originally posted by krasmuzik
Something is wierd here!

With the H79? No way.

;)

Hey thirdkind,

With a signature panel like that, why aren't you in Indianapolis for Star Wars Celebration III convention;)???

I'm a fan of the original trilogy, but the prequels...meh.

I find it difficult to get excited about Star Wars these days. Lucas pretty much ruined the franchise, and the DVD release of the originals was very disappointing.

I thought the DVD image quality was stunning, but like you, didn't enjoy all of the changes. I have some OT laserdisks I can break out if I feel the need though fortunately. I did start converting them to DVD, but it took a huge amount of time to finish TESB, but will probably get around to finishing SW one day. :)

Gary

Originally posted by krasmuzik
Thought you guys might like to know this - using ColorFacts I measured different primaries from HTPC DVI desktop (under blue, over red) rather than the perfect blues/reds the Infocus SP7205 gives me - but it was fine with Comcast Video DVI and Component 480i/720p. Same sensor - latest ColorFacts - only difference was internal desktop patterns vs. external patterns (InHD). Something is wierd here!

BTW Tom - InHD test patterns are great for calibrating - dialed in the video decoding and greyscale - Spyder2 sensor worked great at a 2' image width - fit right into the InHD circles. I cheated and used the rotating projector mount to do all the work - skewed the gamma but saved repositioning the sensor!

Indeed you can your the IRE circles of the comcast pattern, tricky or impossible with the Tri-chromat type. Where can you aim it when facing the lens?

Thirdkind, rehashing Gregs comment of mucking around in the service menu :)

Absolutely fooling around with the service gamma tables is a no no. Remember I just got my Bravo working with the blackness level re-sync does. Well time to do the grayscale, guess what. Touch the user RGB and you get color skews, just like your problem with the first H79 and second. Only reason I can think of that caused it is messing with the service gamma. Anyway alls not lost.

First I tried a simple user reset in the image area. But before that I made note of the original service ADC/Picture/DLP -RGBs. Ok User image reset to try to fix the color skews, no go.

Sooo into the service menu and do a full factory reset, this fixed the problem.

Moral, don't fiddle with factory gamma's. :)

Everythings fine now, grayscaling was easy. I used user gamma 2, Image video, color temp 2.

Grayscale run showed gamma at 2.18 with this run. Not perfect, more testing needed.

And you're right the shifting colors with user RGB was very annoying. :)
You can fix it.

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
I thought the DVD image quality was stunning, but like you, didn't enjoy all of the changes. I have some OT laserdisks I can break out if I feel the need though fortunately. I did start converting them to DVD, but it took a huge amount of time to finish TESB, but will probably get around to finishing SW one day. :)

I have two sets of the THX "faces" LD set. They look good on my 32" Wega, but they're not adequate for front projection.

The DVDs have excellent image quality, but many of the redone effects are garbage (the lightsabers are particularly bad in some scenes) and the color timing is all over the map. Really a second-rate job considering how much time Lucas has had to rework them.

He should've given Lowry Digital more time than 30 days per film. His actions show his complete lack of respect for his own work and what these films mean to fans.

Originally posted by Ursa
Greg - any tips for which color temperature to use as well? (yeah, I'm getting greedy; I'm also asssuming that everything that applies to the H79 will generally apply to my H77).

Later,
Bill
I, for one, am using color temp 2.

Calibration is going to be needed to get the dE of 3 or less Greg Rogers mentions, but things look pretty flat to me just eyeballing it except for the highest IREs which look a bit cool, much like some of the luminance graphs posted earlier in this thread.

Anyone else turning down G and/or B contrast a notch as a beginning in the advanced adjustment area?

Thanks,

Dan

Red is the limiting color, on mine contrast red needs to be at +20. Others are probably the same. Then I tuned the green and blue from there. You could try that by eye I guess. On the low end green was left alone after brightness is calibrated correctly. Then blue and red are adjusted for the low end not touching the green again, being green was set when we adjusted the overall black.

I don't know if the H77/H78 are similar to the H79 with respect to controls and gamma etc, but I found gamma 3 gave me an overall gamma of 2.26. Using 1 gave 2.55 IIRC.

Gamma may be source dependant too since we all have different results - the H78 has C17 firmware too. BTW - tv mode does give a smoother gamma curve (on the H78) as Greg said. Amazing how he could deduce so much in so little time with his H79. It goes to show how much is to be said for knowing what you're doing. :)

Gary.

True going up on the gamma choice got me lower than the 2.55 I was getting at gamma 1. Interesting according to Greg you get 3 sets of 5 gammas by using the Film/video/TV choices. The Video choice got me the 2.18 first try, but I didn't like the curve at the higher end I got. More testing needed.

Preliminary report:

H79 plus iScan HD+ plus DV-59AVi at 1280 x 720, 48Hz is a big two thumbs up:)!!!!!!!!!!!! I am VERY impressed so far, and that's saying "sumthin";)!!!

I can't wait until I get my 59AVi modded for SDI with the SDI board for the HD+.............

Wow you got the projector pretty fast. I got the 48hz going but don't like what it does to opening logos's etc Like the Dreamcast opening or some of the coming attactions. Once the movies going things look smoother than the same movie at 60hz though.

Doesn't the H79 seem way brighter than the H77?

Dave,
My H79 is on the way. I'm also running the 59Avi and also an Oppo. You may want to wait on the SDI mod. If DVDO doesn't upgrade the HD+ to 480i DVI soon, they will be coming out with a new processor that does by the end of the year anyway. It's hard to justify doing an SDI mod to a 59Avi when it already has 480i.

What projector did you have prior to te 79 and how does it compare?

Originally posted by DHarp193
Preliminary report:

H79 plus iScan HD+ plus DV-59AVi at 1280 x 720, 48Hz is a big two thumbs up:)!!!!!!!!!!!! I am VERY impressed so far, and that's saying "sumthin";)!!!

I can't wait until I get my 59AVi modded for SDI with the SDI board for the HD+.............

Glad you're pleased Dave. It's always a bit nerve-wracking buying a projector sight unseen, especially when its predecessor didn't quite cut it.

I take it you're satisfied with pans? Tried the typical torture test scenes yet?

I couldn't get my HTPC working at 48Hz, but I didn't put much effort into it. Perhaps I'll take another shot at it given the many positive reports when viewing film-based material.

Originally posted by DHarp193
What they're saying is that if you want to scale HD, it has to be from a source that has a DVI/HDMI output because the HD+ will not scale HD signals via it's component or RGBHV inputs, only DVI. The other inputs like s-video, composite and 480i component will indeed be scaled via the HD+.

I also think what they're saying is that if you need HD scaling and your HD sources have DVI/HDMI w/HDCP, then get this unit. If not, just get the regular iScan HD, not the "+" version, for scaling only SD sources like you mention.

Thanks Dave for your explanation. I was hoping that I was wrong. I'm still a little new to all this technology, but thanks to you and everyone else here I am learning quick !

Originally posted by DHarp193
Preliminary report:

H79 plus iScan HD+ plus DV-59AVi at 1280 x 720, 48Hz is a big two thumbs up:)!!!!!!!!!!!! I am VERY impressed so far, and that's saying "sumthin";)!!!

I can't wait until I get my 59AVi modded for SDI with the SDI board for the HD+.............

Dave can you explain how much difference the HD+ makes on the H 79 versus just using the DV-59AVI straight to the H 79 ?

Have you used the HD+ to scale any other sources like sattelite or cable and what is your opinion of the HD+ ? Thanks

Originally posted by guitarman
True going up on the gamma choice got me lower than the 2.55 I was getting at gamma 1. Interesting according to Greg you get 3 sets of 5 gammas by using the Film/video/TV choices. The Video choice got me the 2.18 first try, but I didn't like the curve at the higher end I got. More testing needed.

The black level and gamma settings on the H79 interact. So be sure that you check/readjust the black level each time you change the gamma setting. If not, you may reject a gamma setting that you would actually like better if the black level were set correctly.

The TV gamma curves have the most flat gamma values vs signal level. The Video and Film gamma values roll off at higher signal levels. The Video gamma values increase at low signal values.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Originally posted by DHarp193
Preliminary report:
I am VERY impressed so far, and that's saying "sumthin";)!!!

Indeed !

I tend to not give much credence to the newbies who exclaim "I am impressed this is my first projector and it blows my 19" zenith away"

You are a seasoned veteran !!

Could you please remind me what you reference displays have been. (TAW if I recall)

Hope you are feeling great !

Originally posted by gregr
The black level and gamma settings on the H79 interact. So be sure that you check/readjust the black level each time you change the gamma setting. If not, you may reject a gamma setting that you would actually like better if the black level were set correctly.

The TV gamma curves have the most flat gamma values vs signal level. The Video and Film gamma values roll off at higher signal levels. The Video gamma values increase at low signal values.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Actually I over do watching the black level, I try and find the spot where I can barely see the left moving bar dither, with my nose up to the screen, no menu's, no subtitles. Plus I re-check it during the graysale run. So I'm good there. I'll try TV again last time with gamma 1 and TV on my machine I got 2.45, probably gamma 3 will get me there.

Thirdkind
I'm sorry I ever looked at the service gamma choices. I spoke to soon yesterday. Over DVI still if I move one user RGB I'll get the gray shift. What it's doing is bouncing back and forth between video and PC black. Wing s/b in next week I'll make him aware of it. So DVI is in trouble, no change with analog of course.

I could try a couple of things since I'm already at this state. I'll see if changing gray from the ADC area will fix the shift. Maybe the gamma tables were being saved but sent to the re-sync button, just a thought.

Originally posted by guitarman
Actually I over do watching the black level, I try and find the spot where I can barely see the left moving bar dither, with my nose up to the screen, no menu's, no subtitles. Plus I re-check it during the graysale run. So I'm good there. I'll try TV again last time with gamma 1 and TV on my machine I got 2.45, probably gamma 3 will get me there.

Thirdkind
I'm sorry I ever looked at the service gamma choices. I spoke to soon yesterday. Over DVI still if I move one user RGB I'll get the gray shift. What it's doing is bouncing back and forth between video and PC black. Wing s/b in next week I'll make him aware of it. So DVI is in trouble, no change with analog of course.

I could try a couple of things since I'm already at this state. I'll see if changing gray from the ADC area will fix the shift. Maybe the gamma tables were being saved but sent to the re-sync button, just a thought.

My H77 is having the same trouble. It make it almost impossible to do a good calibration with the DVI port and my Momitsu. I have to press Re-Sync button to get to PC level but that make me loose my calibration level. Really annoying.

Bruno

Originally posted by guitarman
Wow you got the projector pretty fast. I got the 48hz going but don't like what it does to opening logos's etc Like the Dreamcast opening or some of the coming attactions. Once the movies going things look smoother than the same movie at 60hz though.

Doesn't the H79 seem way brighter than the H77?

Tom,

I got the pj Thurs, just no real time until now.

I LOVE 48Hz and I totally forgot how much since I got rid of my CRTs and scalers and went with DLPs with no external scaler...until now:)!!!!!!!

I watched some scenes from SW: AOTC and the ship flyovers, pans, etc. were smooth as butter. It's amazing how you get used to judder and just accept it, until it's gone of course.

Yes, the very first thing I noticed was how much brighter and punchier it was than the 300e, as well as sharper, more contrast, better pans (never thought I'd say that;)), more 3D/depth and sooooooooo much more quiet.

Originally posted by RobZ
Dave,
My H79 is on the way. I'm also running the 59Avi and also an Oppo. You may want to wait on the SDI mod. If DVDO doesn't upgrade the HD+ to 480i DVI soon, they will be coming out with a new processor that does by the end of the year anyway. It's hard to justify doing an SDI mod to a 59Avi when it already has 480i.

What projector did you have prior to te 79 and how does it compare?

Rob,

I personally and professionally think that SDI is a better option than DVI/HDMI. I have been using SDI in my "real" job as a broadcaster for almost 11 years. It is pretty robust and of course has no HDCP or any other copy protection. It can also carry digital audio, although the HT world doesn't use that feature. I also helped with TAW's SDI products and it seems to me that SDI fed to a quality scaler has always had a better, cleaner more natural look to it than the DVI/HDMI I have seen. I also don't seem to recall as much banding as I have seen with a lot of DVI sources lately.

I tried 480i component to the HD+ at 48Hz and that's what prompted my initial post.

I was using a Sim2 HT-300e with no scaler. I have to honestly say my impressions so far are that the H79 is a better DLP and it is noticed almost immediately. Way less dither also.

Originally posted by thirdkind
Glad you're pleased Dave. It's always a bit nerve-wracking buying a projector sight unseen, especially when its predecessor didn't quite cut it.

I take it you're satisfied with pans? Tried the typical torture test scenes yet?

I couldn't get my HTPC working at 48Hz, but I didn't put much effort into it. Perhaps I'll take another shot at it given the many positive reports when viewing film-based material.

All I had to watch to evaluate the pans was about 5 minutes of the SuperBowl that I had recorded and I knew right away. How anyone else can't see the horrible pans of the H77 is beyond me:rolleyes: It was immediately apparent as the camera panned across the sidelines that the H79 was far superior in this regard.

If you have Powerstrip on your HTPC it should be fairly easy to get 48Hz (47.952). Try it:)

Originally posted by nelson4u
Dave can you explain how much difference the HD+ makes on the H 79 versus just using the DV-59AVI straight to the H 79 ?

Have you used the HD+ to scale any other sources like sattelite or cable and what is your opinion of the HD+ ? Thanks

Nelson,

I am working on that now. So far the only difference I notice is that the HD+ is ever so softer, but that's only because I used 480i component analog versus the 59avi's digital HDMI. I am 100% confident that when I get the SDI board for the HD+ and my 59avi modded with SDI that the HD+ will be superior, especially since I can get 48Hz frame rate and no judder, and to top it off it makes this already quiet pj even more quiet at 48Hz.

I did for a very short time look at SD cable from a 6412 and it did make the SD signal smoother and more watchable with less combing and aliasing. I wouldn't buy a scaler for this purpose alone though, I don't really watch SD TV shows that much, especially in my theater, except the occasional sports.

Originally posted by John Tuohy
Indeed !

I tend to not give much credence to the newbies who exclaim "I am impressed this is my first projector and it blows my 19" zenith away"

You are a seasoned veteran !!

Could you please remind me what you reference displays have been. (TAW if I recall)

Hope you are feeling great !

Thanks John, I REALLY appreciate that:)(Now I'm blushing), but I am sure Greg Rogers opinion and review in the upcoming WSR is much more valuable than mine.

I have used:

Sony G90, Marquee 9500LC (tricked out), Marquee 8500, TAW HD-800, Barco BG1208/2, BG808s, BG800, GE Imager 210, Sharp12K, TAW Stealth, H77, Sim2 300e, H79 and a Mitsubishi MegaView 33" Pro monitor which is still in use as a reference display for all my projector's performance issues.

I am doing OK lately, but still not my old self since all this mysterious medical crap after that "arthropod" bite almost two years ago:( Every hour and every day varies:confused: Thanks for the concern.

Originally posted by DHarp193
Tom,

I got the pj Thurs, just no real time until now.

I LOVE 48Hz and I totally forgot how much since I got rid of my CRTs and scalers and went with DLPs with no external scaler...until now:)!!!!!!!

I watched some scenes from SW: AOTC and the ship flyovers, pans, etc. were smooth as butter. It's amazing how you get used to judder and just accept it, until it's gone of course.

Yes, the very first thing I noticed was how much brighter and punchier it was than the 300e, as well as sharper, more contrast, better pans (never thought I'd say that;)), more 3D/depth and sooooooooo much more quiet.

Sounds great Dave, glad I didn't screw it up this time. ;)

Dave,
How do you like the black level on the H79 and how does it compare to the H77, Sim2, Sharp, etc? Notice I did not include the G90. I wont go there.

Originally posted by RobZ
Dave,
How do you like the black level on the H79 and how does it compare to the H77, Sim2, Sharp, etc? Notice I did not include the G90. I wont go there.

Rob,

Black level certainly appears better than what I remember with the H77. It also has a much better fill factor and smoother look due to that like the other DC3 machines I have seen, installed and calibrated.

The others...

Sim2, H79's defintely better. At least with every combination of color temp and gamma setting I tried with it:rolleyes: I am starting to think that machine's been a little over hyped, especially for the $$$. I am partly to blame.

Sharp...at least as good from what I remember on black level alone, but I think this thing's got it beat in terms of "punch" (visual contrast) while maintaining a good black level (when the Sharp is in it's high contrast mode)

G90...still the KING:D!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave: Which screen are you using the 79 with, I'm sure you mentioned it way back when, but I'm old and forget more than remember ;). I'm thinking about a constant height setup, considering different screen options. I'm worried the Silverstar, like the Som300e got a little overhype. I have a Firehawl and like it a lot, but I'm getting more used to watching in the batcave than I originally thought I would so now considering when/if I switch going to a Silverstar or ST130. Unfortunately no place around me to see a Silverstar. And getting a screen sample from them has proven impossible to date, not that I think I could tell from a small sample anyway :(.

Cheers,
Scott

Scott,

I'm using a Stewart StudioTek 130 in a totally light controlled environment.

Well I gave 48Hz a shot over the weekend. The nVidia drivers have a utility for adjusting refresh rate, so I set my HTPC up for 47.952. The drivers didn't seem to accept that exact number though; they kept jumping to 47.953 or something close, can't remember.

Perhaps it was because of the inexact refresh rate, but I got frequent dropped frames and stutters. However, the portions that played fine were exceptionally smooth. Almost like...video. I watched a few chapters from Return of the King, and the CGI combined with 48Hz playback made it look like a video game. I also found that 48Hz made motion dithering much more apparent.

I feel weird saying this, but I think I prefer 60Hz. It looks more like film to me.

The H79 definitely does quiet down a lot at 48Hz though. The projector was already the quietest I've heard. 48Hz drops it to near silence.

Tom, sorry to hear you're experiencing the RGB color shifting. Did you manually switch the degamma table back to the default in the service menu? You might try going back and forth between the Re-Sync and DVI buttons or shifting between Cinema, Normal, and Vivid modes, which shifts the gamma curve.

I've experienced the color shifting issue only once or twice over the weekend, and hitting Re-Sync followed by DVI (then Re-Sync again if you want the PC RGB space) seemed to reset things for me and get the H79 back to normal.

Greg, when you suggest using TV mode with gamma 1, are you using Cinema, Normal, or Vivid mode?

Originally posted by DHarp193 I'm using a Stewart StudioTek 130 in a totally light controlled environment. Thanks Dave. Nice to know you have one of my 2 choices for a light controlled room. Have you seen a Silverstar with these 1 chip DLP's? Your critical opinion/ comparision to the ST130 would be valuable if you have.

Also, I have a denon 3910 and am considering other players. Considered a SDI modded DVD. It's for video only (no SACD, etc.) so I have to go modding a 59avi. Is there some reason you chose the 59avi to mod? Which company's mod are you using?

Originally posted by thirdkind Greg, when you suggest using TV mode with gamma 1, are you using Cinema, Normal, or Vivid mode? [/B] Hopefully Greg will correct me if I'm wrong but... I thought these 3 modes were essentially just 3 "memories". That is, chose one and adjust the colors to suit. Something one might use if they had multiple input sources being fed to the PJ over the same input allowing correct calibration of each source. No? I did see that each setting remembers it's own repsective settings in the color menus on the H77, I presume it's the same on the 79.

You're probably right. Greg mentioned previously that there were three sets of five gamma curves, and upon reviewing his posts he was referring to the Film, TV, and Video settings.

Normal/Cinema/Vivid appear to be nothing more than memories.

Does using 48 Hz result in a slower cooling fan and create more potential for bulb overheating?

Dan

Originally posted by drapp1952
Does using 48 Hz result in a slower cooling fan and create more potential for bulb overheating?

Dan

Doubt it, since that what we in europe/japan use 50hz and its alot lower in dB's that way. I tried (using a iscan HD+ 48,50,60 and 72hz) and the last 2 up the sound alot.

Greetings.

Daniel.

Originally posted by drapp1952
Does using 48 Hz result in a slower cooling fan and create more potential for bulb overheating?

Dan It shouldn't, but with Optoma ya never know <wink>...

It should reduce the color wheel speed which hopefully is what's making the sound reduction they are reporting..

Originally posted by thirdkind
Well I gave 48Hz a shot over the weekend. The nVidia drivers have a utility for adjusting refresh rate, so I set my HTPC up for 47.952. The drivers didn't seem to accept that exact number though; they kept jumping to 47.953 or something close, can't remember.

Perhaps it was because of the inexact refresh rate, but I got frequent dropped frames and stutters. However, the portions that played fine were exceptionally smooth. Almost like...video. I watched a few chapters from Return of the King, and the CGI combined with 48Hz playback made it look like a video game. I also found that 48Hz made motion dithering much more apparent.

I feel weird saying this, but I think I prefer 60Hz. It looks more like film to me.

The H79 definitely does quiet down a lot at 48Hz though. The projector was already the quietest I've heard. 48Hz drops it to near silence.
I'll have to check out those CGI effects - that doesn't sound too good. Of course, rainbows are more apparent with the slowed down color wheel.

I've seen occasional stuttering, too, always at scene changes or edits and I guess these are bad edits that don't show up so much with 60 Hz 3:2 pulldown. My Bravo D1 will show momentary combing too with some of those stutters. A separate scaler might handle these better.

Some of these stutters showed up in a couple of the edits in the final race of Seabiscuit. But the increased ease and flow of all the race scenes themselves, and in the final fadeout to the finish line, was really evident. The panning in and out within the still photos in this movie looks solid. At this point I'll take the occasional stutter but would be interested in hearing that they don't occur with a scaler or HTPC setup.

About the heating question, I haven't had any overheating so far using the 48 Hz mode, but I was just wondering. Someone reported somewhere, maybe with the Infocus pjs, that the fan and colorwheel speed are connected and I don't know if that's just true or is only for the Infocus. Worst case scenario with Optoma is that fan speed is kept separate from the color wheel, etc. in pjs for distribution in non-60 Hz countries, but are connected in 60 Hz countries. I don't know if Optoma would be that systematic.

Dan

Originally posted by drapp1952
I'll have to check out those CGI effects - that doesn't sound too good. Of course, rainbows are more apparent with the slowed down color wheel.

I've seen occasional stuttering, too, always at scene changes or edits and I guess these are bad edits that don't show up so much with 60 Hz 3:2 pulldown. My Bravo D1 will show momentary combing too with some of those stutters. A separate scaler might handle these better.

Some of these stutters showed up in a couple of the edits in the final race of Seabiscuit. But the increased ease and flow of all the race scenes themselves, and in the final fadeout to the finish line, was really evident. The panning in and out within the still photos in this movie looks solid. At this point I'll take the occasional stutter but would be interested in hearing that they don't occur with a scaler or HTPC setup.

About the heating question, I haven't had any overheating so far using the 48 Hz mode, but I was just wondering. Someone reported somewhere, maybe with the Infocus pjs, that the fan and colorwheel speed are connected and I don't know if that's just true or is only for the Infocus. Worst case scenario with Optoma is that fan speed is kept separate from the color wheel, etc. in pjs for distribution in non-60 Hz countries, but are connected in 60 Hz countries. I don't know if Optoma would be that systematic.

Dan


I think you would get better result with an Iscan HD. I could be wrong but if I'm not mistaking, the Bravo is like the Momitsu. A flag reader. That means that if your film is flag the DVD player will try to do some 3:2 pull down even if you run it at 48hz. Only disc that are incorrectly flag or that have no flag will do well. I could be wrong here but that could be a reason why it's not as smooth as it should.

Bruno

Can one of the Windows Based HTPC users connected to the H79 run Viewsonic's EDID.exe. Have it read the EDID and translate it. Then post the results. After a bad bout with my previous projector, I am searching for a new one that might get this crucial packet of data correct. The EDID is the packet of data that is passed from the projector back to the source device (HTPC or DVD player) that describes supported resolutions and refresh rates. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.viewsonic.com/drivers/edid.exe