I was guessing the city of tiny lights was a pun for Vegas - I have no idea where Bob lives!

My SP7210 is on the sales kiosk for some serious burn-in - as one thing I have noticed is eight hours a day gets your burn-in done quickly. The side effect is that the Red drains out much much faster and your greyscale goes quickly Cyan. So if you value your greyscale - don't use these as daily TV's - just a few movies to keep up a good duty cycle.

I was guessing the city of tiny lights was a pun for Vegas - I have no idea where Bob lives!

The "City of Tiny Lights" is an esoteric Frank Zappa reference...I live in the booming metropolis of Woonsocket, RI.

At least you don't live next to Billy the Mountain Bob ( and Ethel the tree )!!

No, but I'm good friends with Studebaker Hawk!

The "City of Tiny Lights" is an esoteric Frank Zappa reference...I live in the booming metropolis of Woonsocket, RI.

We had a drummer in a San Francsico Band from RI. He always complained to us we left him no Artistic Integrity. We kept telling him how we wanted the beat laid down. A hippy dude from Rhode Island. I passed that way many times heading up to my Dad's home town of Boston. Rhode Islanders talk like Bostonians, funny :)

Then again they tell me here I talk funny (Brooklyn accent).

Getting back to TV land. I recorded on the PVR, 13 going on 30, resolution looked excellent and worthy of a HD-VHS recording on the JVC40k. Nice looking girl also (Jennifer Garner) :)

Getting back to TV land. I recorded on the PVR, 13 going on 30, resolution looked excellent and worthy of a HD-VHS recording on the JVC40k. Nice looking girl also (Jennifer Garner)

Tom, talking about HD, much like you I have about a hundred titles that I have captured (you can tell I'm a computer guy, heh?) with my R5000. When the time comes, why don't you make some suggestions for some "torture tests" that will make for good comparisons between the two projectors. I also have about 1600 DVDs in my collection if anyone has any particular movies that they would like compared. This should be fun!

We had a drummer in a San Francsico Band from RI.

Who is he? Since I have been a professional musician for about 25 years of my life, I pretty much know all of the musicians (who are any good) in all of Rhode Island.

Edit: I'll check back later...I have to go out for jazz band rehearsal now...:D

I use to like Underworld but I think AVP has taken over top spot for Dark Movie tests. Color tests I guess Gold Member or The Spy who shagged me.

I forgot I even did this picture, not bad for OTB tune-up.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79austin2.jpg

Received my new H79 yesterday and spent half the night looking at some DVDs -- The H79 was placed on a table-top at about half the height of my (relatively cheap) 106" Dalite model B 'High Power' G=2.8 screen.

Since the H79 was purchased at an irresistably low price, I was at first a bit concerned that the projector might not be a good unit. However, when I turned the H79 on (right out of the box) I was immediately astonished by the picture quality. Denon DVD-2910 player, at 720p out, HDMI-to-DVI cable, & without any adjustments to H79 other than the usual focus and zoom.

'Seabiscut' DVD looked close to HD I've seen on satellite (upconverted by Denon to 720p) -- must have gotten one of the better H79 projectors since flesh tones looked great.

"Fifth Element" DVD flesh tones were as impressive as in the pictures that "guitarman" posted at the beginning of this thread.

"Firefly" sci-fi DVD dark scenes & shadow details were very impressive.

Evidently, feeding the H79 DVI input with an upconverted 720p signal works great.

I've seen the Sharp 12K with a Firehawk screen, and I feel that the mid-screen mounted H79 with a 'High Power' screen seems more vivid and 3D. Images seem to jump right out of the screen.
Disclaimer: the Sharp 12K setup might not have been optimum -- but the out-of-box setup of my new H79 was not yet optimized either.
In any case, the DaLite model B 106" 16:9 aspect 'High Power' screen is fantastic for the money. Initial impression is that the viewing cone of the HP is OK -- I could move around a bit and the image quality remained good.


Have a question: I am inexperienced with projectors, but H79 image brightness can evidently be reduced in the menu (use remote control) -- so maybe don't have to use a neutral-density filter if I would ever want to reduce brightness (HP screen is plenty bright in totally dark room, but not overly so) - or perhaps the menu brightness adjustment range may not be sufficient over the lifetime of the bulb?

Dear Bill,

Have you tried different lamp output? H79 has a Brite mode, if sets ON, it uses the full power of the 250W lamp. If set OFF, it's like the Eco mode in other projectors, and only uses like 80% of the lamp output or something.

So, if you feel H79 is too bright, the first step I would do is to set Brite mode Off. Then use Avia or THX DVD to set the right contrast and brightness levels. Then you can play with the Image mode (Cinema, TV and Video) to see which one you likes best. If you want to play more, use RGB gain/bias adjustment to tune to your liking. And since it's already bright enough for you, I suggest you keep Gamma at 1.

If after all these, you still feel too bright, I suggest you try different screen, gray screen will have better black level details, while less gain. Stewart Greyhawk RS is 1.0 or less and Firehawk is 1.3 gain.

If you think Stewart gray screen is over the budget, Optoma now has a "GreyWolf" screen, it's a gray screen base, but with 1.8 gain. It might give you a mid-point of your 2.8 gain high power and a gray screen. And it's price is affordable, check out their web page:
http://www.optomausa.com/optomausa/public/products_accessory_screen.jsp

I've seen the GrayWolf screen in Taipei Optoma demo, pairing with Optoma H31, and the color looks fabulous, the black looks very good. You might want to try it if the price is within your "experiment".

If you think Stewart gray screen is over the budget, Optoma now has a "GreyWolf" screen, it's a gray screen base, but with 1.8 gain. It might give you a mid-point of your 2.8 gain high power and a gray screen. And it's price is affordable, check out their web page:
http://www.optomausa.com/optomausa/public/products_accessory_screen.jsp

I've seen the GrayWolf screen in Taipei Optoma demo, pairing with Optoma H31, and the color looks fabulous, the black looks very good. You might want to try it if the price is within your "experiment".
Do you know if this is an angular-reflective or a retro-reflective screen? If angular-reflective it seems like it would hotspot quite a bit (must be at very high gain to go with gray and still give 1.8), but if it is retro-reflective then it could basically be like the gray High Power that I and others have been hoping for.

--Darin

TzungILin,

I checked the H79 menu and the Brite mode was off (default).

IMO, with the High power screen in totally dark room, only the white highlights might be on the bright side. During the day with some ambient light in the room brightness is not a problem.

When watching sci-fi DVD "Firefly" that has many dark shadowy scenes I liked using gamma =3 ... IMO image tradeoffs/shortcomings due to gamma=3 are worth it to see shadow details in "Firefly". Gamma=2 (default) seems about right for watching other movies.

As for other screens, what about DaLite "Video Spectra" with G=1.5 (cheaper price).
Somehow, to me Stewart screens seem very pricey at least compared to Dalite.

I will check out Optoma 106" "GreyWolf" screen, G= 1.8 Part # : DS9106PM (gray), MSRP under three hundred. Seems 106" Grey Wolf is in same price range as the High Power.

Again, rather than a filter to cut down the H79 light output, I wish that Optoma would include a third very low power mode for the bulb, say only 150 watts.

Or, Optoma could offer an alternative longer-life low-wattage bulb for the H79 (perhaps only 150 watt) that the user could install rather that the 250 watt bulb? Waste heat (fan) and electricity consumption would be lowered also. I think with the "High Power" screen, only one-half the light ouput would be OK.

Bill13

Optoma could offer an alternative longer-life low-wattage bulb for the H79 (perhaps only 150 watt) that the user could install rather that the 250 watt bulb? Waste heat (fan) and electricity consumption would be lowered also. I think with the "High Power" screen, only one-half the light ouput would be OK.I think this or the tri-power setting for the bulb would be a good idea along with a variable iris. At 380 hours old my H79's bulb still has brightness to spare with a 133" diagonal size image and High Power. BTW, the reds have come down somewhat and they don't look oversaturated at this point, or I've just gotten used to them. I anticipate I won't have to go to high bulb power until somewhere around the last fifth of the bulb's life if at all using the High Power and zooming down to a little smaller image.

It'd be nice if Optoma added a (more) variable bulb and iris in a future 1080p.

Dan

I think my glasses are working too well. At 1.8 screen widths, I can still see a little bit of screendoor "grittiness" Must be my old CRT eyes. Otherwise, the picture is very pleasing - far superior to the local cineplex. Now awaiting an IMX lens to see how well it gets rid of the last bit of screendoor. The DC3 already is pretty low in SDE, but it would be nice to get a bit more "solid" look in the image.

I was thinking wearing glasses which magnifiy would make the screen door easy to see. Lucky me I just need reading glasses, at 1.5 or even less I can't see a hint of screen door with the H79. I can with the HT1000 though, saw it this morning.

Now awaiting an IMX lens to see how well it gets rid of the last bit of screendoor.
I would suggest trying a half pixel shift with it instead of just enough to get rid of the screendoor and see what you think. I think this might reduce some of the high frequency noise to be more like a CRT.

--Darin

Bill13

It has been said that H79 has a great onboard scaler. Have you compared the 480p (DVI) feed against upconverted 720p?

I read somewhere Denon 2910 is not great in upconverting (macro-blocking, panning problems), so ideally just feeding 480p (DVI) to H79 will work better than 720p feed.

Projectorcentral.com even observed that iScan DVDO HD 720p conversion did not really do a great job over H79's native conversion.

Thanks
Prabhat

according to this pdf at Optoma's site, the Graywolf is a glass bead screen, constructed with 'pearl glass beads':

http://www.optomausa.com/optomausa/doc/screen/GrayWolf_DS92106PM.pdf

It looks like the mythical 'gray high power' has arrived, and at an MSRP of $200-300 depending on size!

Now awaiting an IMX lens to see how well it gets rid of the last bit of screendoor.
Darin & I played around with this combination a while ago and I thought the IMX lens worked great at 1.5X. I posted some comments on the subject here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5455786&&#post5455786) (along with some analysis and simulations earlier in the thread).

It will be interesting to hear what you think.

Brent

according to this pdf at Optoma's site, the Graywolf is a glass bead screen, constructed with 'pearl glass beads':

http://www.optomausa.com/optomausa/doc/screen/GrayWolf_DS92106PM.pdf

It looks like the mythical 'gray high power' has arrived, and at an MSRP of $200-300 depending on size!
I sent an email to the person at Optoma who sales orders go to and asked if this was angular-reflective or retro-reflective and whether I could get a sample. But at $199 for the smaller version I am tempted to just buy one and check it myself.

Okay, I got impatient and decided that I would just order one since I could find a use for it whether it is angular or reflective, if it looks good. But they don't make it easy. Their link for buying one just goes to the same person I sent the email to (and haven't heard back from) and uses popup email. I use internet email and don't have anything setup to allow that. I could just send an email to the same place (marcian@optoma.com), but I've already done that once.

--Darin

Prabhat,

Thanks for recomending that I try feeding 480p (DVI) to H79 -- to compare resulting video quality to using my Denon 2910 to upscale to 720p (DVI output) feed. I will try 480p directly into H79 (use the projector's upscaler) when I get a chance.

With the 'Seabiscut' DVD I did not notice artifacts (however, so far, I lack experience with home theater -- and was stunned by H79 first time I saw the movie) -- image on "High Power"screen often looked HD-like 'looking through a window', & objects jumping right out of the screen.

Could it be that most 720p artifacts occur mainly with the early-production Denon DVD-2910 players?

H79 maintenance?
BTW, I noticed NO instructions in the Optoma H79 user's manual about any procedure, and how often, the H79 projector's AIR filters should be cleaned (I assume there must some kind of air filter in the fan-driven cooling air-pathways. I would imagine if such air filters get partially clogged, possible overheating and damage could occur to the projector electronics, to say nothing about reduced lamp life (the lamp runs very hot!).

Thanks,

Bill13

Hi,

Starting to set-up my H79 and have two questions:

Does anyone know the diameter of the 12v plug that fits into the back of the projector (screen tripping)? I know it is smaller than 5 mm OD (outer diameter), but there are about 5 different sizes available (ranging from 2 mm to 4.8 mm).

I am using an optical fiber based DVI connector from source to projector. I am awaiting my AVR 4806, but in the mean time am testing with my HT PC. However the projector reports no signal when using the optical DVI cable. I found the following warning at the cable vendor, and suspect my PC video card does not have the proper power. Any comments and does anyone know if such a cable would work with an AVR source such as the 4806?

Warning: Please note that not all scalers have proper power on the DVI output which will result in no image with Fiber Optical cables. Please refer to your your scaler's user manual or contact the manufacturer for information. A DVI power adapter is required in this instance. (http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Cables/fiber_oc.asp)

Thanks,
-jerry

I have ordered a DVI optic cable power adaptor which is inexpensive and provides a 5v source to the cable which allows the optical conversion and transmission to work. If anyone is interested, I will report back with results. FYI, Projectorcentral had a small write-up on fiber optic vs. high end copper, for long runs. My run is about 10meters.

Thanks,
-jerry

Prabhat,

Thanks for recomending that I try feeding 480p (DVI) to H79 -- to compare resulting video quality to using my Denon 2910 to upscale to 720p (DVI output) feed. I will try 480p directly into H79 (use the projector's upscaler) when I get a chance.

With the 'Seabiscut' DVD I did not notice artifacts (however, so far, I lack experience with home theater -- and was stunned by H79 first time I saw the movie) -- image on "High Power"screen often looked HD-like 'looking through a window', & objects jumping right out of the screen.

Could it be that most 720p artifacts occur mainly with the early-production Denon DVD-2910 players?

H79 maintenance?
BTW, I noticed NO instructions in the Optoma H79 user's manual about any procedure, and how often, the H79 projector's AIR filters should be cleaned (I assume there must some kind of air filter in the fan-driven cooling air-pathways. I would imagine if such air filters get partially clogged, possible overheating and damage could occur to the projector electronics, to say nothing about reduced lamp life (the lamp runs very hot!).

Thanks,

Bill13

If it's not too dusty every 3 months would be good. The filters on the bottom of the PJ. Rinse with water put it back when dry.

THought I would post this review I found...

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/h79_san.htm

Looks like Peter is really annoyed with the inability of the Optoma to find active inputs and the inability to turn the autoscan mode off in order to manually select the input.

Wonder if a few people who have had their calibrated using professional equipment can post their settings including which color settings, etc (e.g. TV/FILM/, Cinema, gamma, RGB values...) I have DVE and can't seem to get good results. Thanks. SJ

Looks like Peter is really annoyed with the inability of the Optoma to find active inputs and the inability to turn the autoscan mode off in order to manually select the input.

Just how does one turn off the auto scan mode? I want to manually change inputs all of the time.

Wonder if a few people who have had their calibrated using professional equipment can post their settings including which color settings, etc (e.g. TV/FILM/, Cinema, gamma, RGB values...) I have DVE and can't seem to get good results.

If anybody answers this, please don't forget to include the screen size, material, and gain.

Greg Rogers does extensive testing of the H79 on a 100" diagonal Studiotek 130 in issue 97 of WideScreen Review ...

https://www.widescreenreview.com/eq_detail.php?id=379

It's ify using numbers per each machine and device but I'll give you a couple. A problem though is I calibrate in the service menu, but maybe not a problem since using my service numbers will better give you a shot at a match.

DVI progressive I use a Bravo D2 at 720p.

First Service area

ADC
R gain 188
G gain 191
B gain 187

R offset 43
G offset 54
B offset 46

Picture
Gain R 155
Gain G 139
Gain B 136

Bias R 109
Bias G 113
Bias B 113

Second User area
Cinema
Contrast 9
Brightness -1
Sharp 3
gamma 1

Image mode
White peak zero
CT 2
Image TV

Advanced Adjusments
R contrast 9
G contrast 6
B contrast 2

R brightness -10
G brightness 0
B brightness 0


Now Analog progressive from a Denon 1600
First Service area

ADC is identical to the numbers above for DVI.

Picture
gain R 127
gain G 124
gain B 128

bias R 121
bias G 120
bias B 116

User settings
Cinema
contrast -18
brightness 2
color 10
sharpness 3
gamma 3

image
white peak zero
CT 2
Image mode Film

Advanced all at zero


That's it, pls don't examine other areas of the service menu you'll be ok with just looking at ADC and Picture. There's a pandora's box in there and examining certain area's can cause you a problem. Write down all your original service Picture & ADC numbers. Remember just stay with ADC & Picture.

To get in the service menu
Looking from the back of the PJ to the front, the four buttons in a row, hit the left two buttons and the right buton at the same time. You can use your remote to move in the service area, menu and enter buttons will take you in and out of service functions, to exit there's an exit Icon at the bottom.
Pheww! it's tuff doing this numbers thing. If you give it a try lmk how it went?

Could we get links to this latest posting (and the other good tidbit postings onto the first post of this very long thread? This info is pretty important to know early on, especially the warnings about what items in the service menu should not be touched. The thread has gotten so long that it is hard to find the good tidbits. Needs an index in the first posting.

Guitarman, why do you choose to change values in service menu instead of normal settings?
Is there any difference in rgb contrast - brightness and rgb gain bias or offset (in servise menu) ?
(i have an optoma 78 by the way and i cant understand why they use different names for the same thing - or its not the same adjustment?)

You will be fine using the normal menu's 'advanced' adjustment for RGB contrast and brightness if you're adjusting for greyscale. The only advantage that I can see from the service menu is that it puts the RGB adjustments in a smaller window out of the way, so it doesn't interfere with the colorimeter (or whatever you're using to measure). The advanced user RGB adjustment is a huge window slap bang in the middle of the screen whuch isn't ideal for making adjustments with (though you can put the colorimiter to one side of it).

Gary.

Thanks Tom for the info. SJ

Gary said it, the RGB menu system in the service area is setup to make is easier when using a calibrating system. The small out of the way menu eliminates color spikes. But you can see when dishing out numbers for other users. It's best to match the service and the user area.

What I would do is try the RGB's in the ADC/Picture & any noted for the User advanced, then just use Avia to do your devices black/whites/color, unless my Avia numbers are exact for you also which would be surprising.

No offense it bought the thread back up. Probably new lookers that don't even know how great the H79 is and for it's price. Every time I fire it up I still shake my head. This thing is nice!

Have to agree with Tom there, very happy with mine overall. I had a H77 sold it (purely because I wanted a H79 when it was announced). But since I had to wait on the H79 to be released, I demo'd a Marantz S3, Infocus 7205, and a Sim 300E in my room. Chose the H79 over them all for my veiwing needs.

Only thing that's wrong with mine (that I didn't work around) is the bulb clock must be wrong. No way I'm watching it as much as it says :D:D (200+ hours now)

I am gonna ask a silly question. At present, my video source is a Mac OSX DVD Player. At night, I usually turn on the subtitle since I need to keep the volume really low. At 16.9 the DVD player's subtitle floats in the 16.9 frame at 2.35 it floats below 2.35 frame.

In near future I will have a fixed 2.35 screen with H79. I wonder how can I put the subtitle within the frame (in both 16.9 and 2.35). Is there in any option in the projector regarding placement of the subtitle? If this can be handled in the video source, please let me know what it is.

Thanks

I am gonna ask a silly question. At present, my video source is a Mac OSX DVD Player. At night, I usually turn on the subtitle since I need to keep the volume really low. At 16.9 the DVD player's subtitle floats in the 16.9 frame at 2.35 it floats below 2.35 frame.

In near future I will have a fixed 2.35 screen with H79. I wonder how can I put the subtitle within the frame (in both 16.9 and 2.35). Is there in any option in the projector regarding placement of the subtitle? If this can be handled in the video source, please let me know what it is.

ThanksSorry, the subtitle isn't a vector element being sent the the PJ. Just part of a big raster image, including the letterbox bars. A display has no way to discern them, nor more them. It is up to the source to change them. I'm not sure becasue I don't use them in my DVD productions, but I think they are muxed as a video layer that's essentially superimposted onto the other vide stream when played. In other words, I dont' think they can be moved unless the player had the ability to change positions per layer. Of course the correct thing is if the movie was encoded with the subtitles positioned correctly inside the video, but I could see where some DVD author might think he was "heping" by moving them out of the video and "into the black", which you will be cutting off.

This is an interesting point however, I'd post a question in the 2.35 forum and see if anyone there has a solution becasue I'd think it will be a potential issue for any subtitled movie

Thanks GetGray, that's what I thought, the issue is in video source, not in the projector. I will post this question in 2.35 forum and see there is any response.

I was watching a Doobie Brothers Concert on HDNET the other night (that I had recorded).. The blacks looked like ink. Color was just fantastic. What a fabulous picture. Hightly recommend to watch this show (especially if you like their music!). SJ

Downloaded HD 'WMVHD' sample 1080P and 720P video clips from Microsoft.com (including "Amazon" & "Coral Reefs" video samples). Looks impressive on my computer's monitor --- next step is to view using my Optoma H79 on 106" High power screen as an home theater HD monitor.

What is good way to view these HD clips on my Optoma H79? I ask this because my computer's video card only has the usual digital DVI out, and analog VGA connector, but does not have a component-video output. Have to get the expensive ATI 'X800 AIW' card for a component video capability? Does component video (HD) from a computer give better results with an H79 projector if you try to play 1080P WMVHD videos?

Has this H79 computer-video connection question been answered somewhere already?

Thanks,

Bill13

Question about Optoma H79 lamp cool-down (turn-off) and occasional AMBER light flashing during turn-off cycle:

Has anyone noticed their H79 projector's amber light flashing a few times just before the fan turns off (however, the blue light always flashes during the lamp cool-down cycle) -- especially when the ambient room temperature is warmer than usual, and when the (hot) projector has been running for more than two hours?

Just wondered if few flashes of the amber light just before fan shuts off is normal for a (hot) H79 projector? Optoma designed the cooling system for minimum noise so maybe thermal cooling is marginal ? (I use at low power lamp setting = brite mode OFF)

Maybe I should use another fan to force more air flow to the projector's intake -- even though there are no obstructions to air flow anywhere near the air-intake port on the bottom of the projector. Projector is only a couple of weeks old.

Bill13

I ordered an Optoma 106" "GREYWOLF" screen to compare to my 106" DaLite "High Power" screen, using my optoma H79.
Plan to post subjective comments.

My HP screen with H79 projector at mid-screen height, seems to image everything extremely well, although extreme white-highlights occasionally are brighter than needed in the totally dark room.

The high contrast capability of the H79 allows dark shadows to still look good even when part of the image is very bright (with a DaLite HighPower screen).

I'm hoping than Optoma screen (Greywolf actual gain expected to be about half the HP) will lessen intensity of the bright whites.

Hope "Guitarman" will comment on his new Optoma 'Greywolf' glass screen.

Bill13

The Gray 1.8 gain screen looks interesting. Speically for me with the white walls and ceiling. Waves are my big worry here, if they can't be seen with video it should be a winner.

Hi Bill,

I just finished installing my H79, and of course it is over the top. While I am currently setting up my Denon 4806 and DVD 3910, I have been testing the H79 by playing the WMVHD discs (currently have the most highly rated ones Coral Reef and Amazon) from my HT computer. Specifically, I simply hooked the DVI out from my video card to the H79 and there you have it. As I install my 4806, I am going to simply run the DVI from the HT to the DVI in on the AVR.

Cheers,
-jerry

Thanks jb1000.

I will try the computer's video card DVI out to the H79.

Bill13

DVI sould carry hd signals better than component. The only advantage with component is if you are stuck with HDCP compliance, you can get away with component.

I recently purchased an H79 from the nice folks here at AVS. I think I might have a defective unit, but wanted to run it by you folks first to rule out user error. Sometimes when I'm watching a movie or playing Xbox on my projector, the lamp will turn off for no apparent reason. When this happens, the blue power light blinks and the red lamp light turns on. None of the buttons on the remote control nor the projector itself respond at that point, and the only way to reset the projector is to use the physical power switch.

Anyone experience something similar or have an idea what's going on here?

BTW, the "Auto shutdown" option in the menus is set to Off (default setting).

One thing you can do is re-seat the bulb. Also make sure it's not getting too hot. Either house temperature or enough ventilation space. It's been 100 degrees here in California this last week. We have been running the AC but without It I could be in trouble.

Someone did report a similar problem recently but I think it went away.

Thanks guitarman, I'll try reseating the bulb. I doubt it's an overheating issue, as my media room is in my basement and has been pretty much been a steady 68-72 F all week. I have AC but it hasn't even had to kick in yet.

I think the other guy who reported a similar problem found if it was upside down it was OK, rightside up, not. If your's is right side up sitting on it's legs. Try to raise the legs high as possible and get as clear a ventilation path as possible underneath where it's intakes are.

Just got off the phone with Optoma. They think I have a bad bulb, so they're going to exchange it.

That's easy, so they're sending you a new bulb that's it?

H79 can auto detect the input signal. I remember it does searching digital component. Can you guys try if it can support HDMI component?

For those who have used a filter on the H79. What size of filter do you use? and
How do you attach the filter. The lens housing does not appear to have threads for accepting an ND filter.

Hi,

You can do it one of two ways - a 72mm filter is the same size as the lens, so you can fit it against the lens and use a rubbwer band around them both to hold it into place (see pic).

The other way is to use a 77mm filter and fit it backwards onto the lens so that it encloses the lens (if you get the idea). My H78 is ceiling mounted, and the filter wants to fall forward, but the bottom of the filter catches on the lens so is held in place at an angle (see pic).

I would use a Hoya HMC filter as they have less reflectance and allow more light through, You can see the difference between a coated and uncoated Hoya because you can get a little lens flare with whites bleding into blacks for example.

Gary.

I took a few shots using the Optoma Graywolf screen. See what you think, also I'm using the Oppo now which has it's own color thing which I like. Great combination H79, Graywolf, Oppo.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf4.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf5.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf6.jpg

Graywolf is a 1.8gain dark gray material that's retro-reflective. I told them this is a great screen material and they have to get some classier applications. Wing said it took a long time to develope this screen they wanted, working for a gray screen with a high gain. He said they're now working on fixed models and Electrics. Right now the screen case is like a Model B datlite's case but a little smaller.

There's a review in the screens forum. Darin's the only other that has the screen right now and has some input.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79glad1.jpg


http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf5.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79glad2.jpg

Those are so you can get a quick glimpse of the differences. Graywolf vs Mat White

Is it me or does there appear to be far more detail with the matte white than the graywolf in your last comparo shots? Are they the same resolution jpgs?

Wow. Thanks for those shots Tom!

You can really see the difference in the black level of the black 2.35.1 bars. The GrayWolf is noticeably more black. Fortunately I live very close to Darin and am planning to check his GrayWolf out soon in person.

Any chance that Optoma is planning on making a bigger version of this like 119" or 133" diagonal? It looks like it may be a real winner except for the limited screen sizes they are currently offering.

Brent

Re sharpness, I noticed that in the screen shots. Only thing I can figure is, the oppo's pause feature dosen't allow you to get the sharpest frame. They other players I've had, you could click click click to find the absolute sharpest frame. With the Oppo you're either in play or pause, play or pause. The other thing adding to this is I now have the PJ set to zero sharpness when before I used the middle level. Also the Oppo is set the zero sharpness. I thought there was too much sharpness in my images and video so I've changed the style. Pictures smoother now.

Next time I call in I'll ask about larger screen sizes.

Tom - Let me make sure I'm following you; the h79glad1.jpg and h79glad2.jpg pics were taken prior to making config changes in the H79? If so, how much trouble would it be to take some current pics with the matte screen and current Oppo / H79 config? What bothered you about the sharpness setting used in the first set of shots?

Murky blacks scene, sharpnesses on.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf7.jpg

Lady with projectros sharpness at middle
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf8.jpg

Lady w/pj's sharpness and the Oppos sharpness in default which they call low
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf9.jpg

Excellent deinterlacing scene, end of Greatness of Rome. nice 3D also, both sharpness adds
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf10.jpg

More of the Oppos sharpness feature, notice the ringing left side of face.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf11.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf5.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf11.jpg

Name your poison :)

I was watching a Doobie Brothers Concert on HDNET the other night (that I had recorded).. The blacks looked like ink. Color was just fantastic. What a fabulous picture. Hightly recommend to watch this show (especially if you like their music!). SJ

SJHT,

I'm curious what screen and light conditions you have with your H79 ? I am trying to decide on the perfect screen to match up to my H79 in a totally light controlled room.

Any opinions are welcome.

I have a Firehawk screen. I have a light controlled room, but sometimes let light in for weekend sports, playing XBOX, etc. The firehawk works great for my setup as I don't always watch things in the dark... If you only watch in the dark, I would get a different screen. SJ

Tom - Let me make sure I'm following you; the h79glad1.jpg and h79glad2.jpg pics were taken prior to making config changes in the H79? If so, how much trouble would it be to take some current pics with the matte screen and current Oppo / H79 config? What bothered you about the sharpness setting used in the first set of shots?

Yeah, I really preferred the sharper images but the h79graywolf11.jpg picture looks excellent! So Tom, in your opinion the Greywolf produces as sharp of picture but you have lowered the sharpness to your preference?

I really like the idea of the greywolf to better handle room lighting when I like to have some light in the room. I normally prefer pitch black but the Wifey prefers some light in the room :( and sometimes you have to please them in other ways then in the bedroom :)...

Tom - Any idea when Optoma will release the greywolf in a fixed screen? I have a 100" 4:3 using with my current pj that I will use the upper (92" dia) for the new H77 until I can decide on a screen. Also, I sent you a PM earlier.. Hoping for a reply today..

Thanks much everyone..

RK

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf5.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf11.jpg

Name your poison :)

Now I'm using my CRT monitor I can see the image better. The top one is soft for two reasons. The oppo's quirky pause technique and the zero sharpness settings on the PJ and Oppo. So it looks really soft, nice darker look though. There's a little camera shake also. All the latest shots about are on the Graywolf and majority are with the sharpness up.

It will be a while before the high end models come out. Darin's/Krases suggestion of buying a pulldown and cutting the material out applied to a DIY frame is a good one. It could save you a allot of money, because the frame is what costs. This material is extremely thick. Allot thicker then the Dalite's HP material. It should be easy to work with.

Screen suggestions: I just set up an H79 to shoot onto a new Carada Criterion 106" (diag) 16:9 screen. Room is 100% light controlled.

I couldn't be happier with the build quality of the Carada... it looks good, feels good, goes together well and hangs easily. I opted for the Brilliant White screen material to get maximum 'pop' from the image, based on recommendations from David @ Carada. Plus, you can't beat the price!

Tom - Thanks for posting the updated pics! Are you upconverting to 720p with the Oppo?

720p on the Oppo looks best with the H79. With the 854X480 H31 it's a pickum. Probably 480p. Love the player and glad they got it sorted out from the first one I tried.

Anyone know what the deal is with the new 3yr warranty for the H79. When
I purchased mine back in March, the warranty was 2yr. Will Optoma
extend the warranty another year?

Tomorrow my order goes in for an Optoma H79 from AVS. I'll be using it with a Lumagen Vision HDP scaler and I'll need a DVI cable about 40 feet long. Any suggestions from Optoma users on a good place to buy?

Joe Clark

Tomorrow my order goes in for an Optoma H79 from AVS. I'll be using it with a Lumagen Vision HDP scaler and I'll need a DVI cable about 40 feet long. Any suggestions from Optoma users on a good place to buy?

Joe Clark

RAM Electronics (http://www.ramelectronics.net/)

our sponsor ;)

Screen suggestions: I just set up an H79 to shoot onto a new Carada Criterion 106" (diag) 16:9 screen. Room is 100% light controlled.

I couldn't be happier with the build quality of the Carada... it looks good, feels good, goes together well and hangs easily. I opted for the Brilliant White screen material to get maximum 'pop' from the image, based on recommendations from David @ Carada. Plus, you can't beat the price!

Need HELP

Sightly OT, but is The Carada BW retro reflective - I'm looking at buying one today, but I plan to ceiling-mount an Optoma H77 or H78. Screen over 4 1/2' hearth in dem with some light.

Thanks,

Scott

Need HELP

Sightly OT, but is The Carada BW retro reflective - I'm looking at buying one today, but I plan to ceiling-mount an Optoma H77 or H78. Screen over 4 1/2' hearth in dem with some light.

Thanks,

Scott

I am in the same boat as I just purchased a H77. Fortunetly I have 100" 4:3 Da-lite HCCV I use with my current pj that I can do some inital testing before making a decision. I will however will say it has been recommended to buy the Da-lite HP (2.8 gain) because I will be ceiling mounting too and the HP will provide a 1.5 gain at seating level. I should have some brightness to spare in the first couple hundred hours which I may try a ND2 filter or just have a brighter image.. .

Good luck.. If you go with carada bw please report back.

RAM Electronics (http://www.ramelectronics.net/)

our sponsor ;)

Thanks, Vashon.

Optoma just ordered, Lumagen Vision HDP next on the list as soon as I get hold of the dealer. One last question on the DVI cable from RAM Electronics - the H79 says a DVI-I connection, not sure about the Lumagen. Will a RAM Electronics DVI-D high quality 40 foot cable work?

Ram 40' s/b ok. There's a member using a 50' Ram cable with the Optoma H31 with no problem. You can use either DVI-D or DVI-I.

Joe,

I'm using a 50' RAM Electronics DVI-D cable (part #DVS-50) with no problems at all from an Iscan HD+ to an H77.

Kevin

H79 Warranty now 3 years?

I saw Optoma H79 brochure on the Optomausa.com website that stated that the new H79 factory warranty is now 3 years (warranty was 2 years duration as of last month).

Since I bought my new H79 projector last month (June 05) when the stated warranty was only 2 years, does this mean that my H79 warranty is 'automatically' extended from 2 to 3 years?
Or, am I out of luck (get only a 2 year factory warranty) because I bought the H79 last month?

Bill13

I'd like to know about this also.

Considering Optoma has been getting a little crazy with the projector releases lately and a lot of us bought the H79 only a short time before all these price drops, new model announcements, and warranty extensions, I'd hope they'd extend the warranty for previous owners as well. We did pay a premium, after all.

Tom, any chance you could check with Optoma on the H79 warranty situation for people who purchased one before the new 3-year warranty was announced?

Ram 40' s/b ok. There's a member using a 50' Ram cable with the Optoma H31 with no problem. You can use either DVI-D or DVI-I.

Thanks. That's the last piece for now. This thread has made me feel really good about this projector upgrade for my home theater - almost as good about upgrading as I am exhausted from reading the whole thing. I think we can now officially declare this thread a full blown tapestry.

Has anyone else had the flashing orange light after the power down and was it fixed using a seperate fan. Has anyone had any feedback fom Optama on this particular problem.

Never saw orange lights on the H79, just the blue one flashes. The H31 sometimes starts up with two orange lights but it does start up ok. Sometimes there's no orange lights on start up. I think my problem has something to do with it being totally unpluged and not in use for long periods of time.

So every time you shut down the fan cycles down properly but you see an orange light every time? See what the tech dept. says.

I had the flashing orange light on startup once. I think the lamp failed to fire (no light at all). After turning off the master power switch and restarting the projector, it worked fine. If it happens again I'll probably take it down and reseat the lamp to see if that helps.

Interestingly, the exact same thing happened with both the Sim2 30H and 300E projectors I tested more than once.

It's a common thing, computer hicups. If it's every single time you got a beef.

My HT1000 if I don't power switch off then back on and wait for the PJ to green light flash after 15secs I'll have a problem. The bulb won't ignite. Turn the power switch on wait 15 secs and it fires every time. Hicups

Personal Experience

After working with 2 H79 projectors and sending them back and forth four times: Optoma gave up on correcting a manufaturing problem on H79. The H79 have a defective DDC Interface. The DDC interface (Part of the DVI that indentifies the projector to a Plug and Play Computer) works only for one day at most. After that it stops working and makes it very dificult or impossible to use the DVI Port with a Plug and Play Computer. Optoma has a terrible customer service. We indentified the problem, showed to them, they recognized the problem and tried to fix it and after almost two months and not being able to solve the problem: They suggested that we return the projector to CDW (Where we bought it).

Here are the RMA numbers:

RMA 39734
RMA 39505
RMA 40028

Some of the persons contacted at Optoma:

Jeff Davis Ext. 3816
Wing Chung Ext. 3839
Jorge Saldoval Ext. 3842

Please fee free to contact me if you want more details about this nightmare.

Ricardo Perdigao
rperdigao@eneuro.med.pro

Ricardo, I know this isn't want you want, but just FYI, I've added a Lumagen HDP to my setup. It has resolved all of the issues witht he H7x's relatively poor signal interface. Plus I get an outstanding external scaler, and DVI switcher to boot. No my sync/resync issues, and wow, what flexibility it has for adjustments. 1:1 pixel mapping total control, as it should be. Pricey, but avail from on-line folks (PM me for a suggestion if you want) . I'm very, very happy with the addition. Since your PC would interface to the HDP's DVI not the PJ, and I'm almost positive the HDP is PC compliant AFAIK (It has a setting specific to this and I'm sure they can tell you), it would alleviate the issue.

I am about to buy an H79, but what Ricardo just pointed is too bad as I am using a computer exclusively.

Does anybody have the same problem?

Guitarman, any help?

Thanks

Cassius

I am about to buy an H79, but what Ricardo just pointed is too bad as I am using a computer exclusively.

I've been using an HTPC since day one without problems. The H79 syncs to pretty much every signal I throw at it (800x600, 1024x768, 1280x720, 1920x1080) via DVI. Even 48Hz works very nicely for film material.

I will admit to be being very happy regarding Optoma's extension of the H79 warranty to 3 years. Their quality control is extremely bad and they let a lot of lemons slip through.

Hopefully the company itself will be around that long.

I am on my third H-79 and I've been out-of-town since receiving the replacement and now with 20 hours on the unit, while watching a movie, the screen goes blank and I have a flashing blue with lit red light which means bulb failure? I power the unit down, wait a few minutes and fired it back up and it seems to be working again (this happened at a critical point in the movie, kindof ruined the experience). Am I having abnormally bad luck with these units or is this a normal occurence? BTW, I do have a backup power supply on the unit so I don't think that was the cause.

Does the manual indicate bulb failure or overheating for that light pattern? Try taking the bulb out and reseating it.

One cause for my concern over the H79's longevity is its operating temperature. My H79 gets really hot. The cooling fan is very quiet, but I don't think it's moving enough air. The room is air conditioned.

Their [Optoma] quality control is extremely bad and they let a lot of lemons slip through.

That's terrible! As I am not living in the US, having the projector shipped back to the US is too expensive and risky.

That's terrible! As I am not living in the US, having the projector shipped back to the US is too expensive and risky.

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences with the computer input.

I just read all these recent posts about the H79. I got mine a couple of days ago and, yes, my unit gets very hot, too. It's almost too hot to touch after a few hours of use. No doubt I'm going to have to add a fan to the box I've constructed on the ceiling. There goes the H79's quiet fan.

My Dish 921 DVR died last night (replacement coming from Dish on Monday), so I'm going to hook up a couple of thiings temporarily, including a HTPC. I'll report back on that experience later.

After reading this thread, I decided on the H79 despite several unpleasant experiences from users and a questionable review in Widescreen Review about 480p/i performance. I have a Lumagen HDP coming, also, and the total cost was less than what I would have had to pay for a Sharp 12000, my next choice. As noted above, the combination should take care of a lot of the performance and usability issues talked about earlier in this thread.

Having just moved up from a Sharp 9000 PJ, I can say that the Optoma is a huge step forward in creating a sense of depth in both bright and dark scenes over the Sharp, even without calibration yet.

The Lumagen HDP adds about $1,500 to the cost of the unit, but when I trade up the next time, the Lumagen will make that transition, and it outputs 1080p. But, it isn't as attractive a deal as the H79's low initial price would suggest, if you go that route.

Joe Clark

You can buy the H78 in Europe. As far as running the PJ, I've ran it 6hours straight many times and never a problem. I guess you could build a fan box as a safety precaution, maybe the cooling will make the bulb last longer.

I use players not HTPC, the Bravo D2 and Oppo put out more than stunning images. Guy uses an Oppo with his H79. But I know, you guys spent time and money on your HTPC's and you want to use them. The H31 people are having HTPC issues. One was it would work for two weeks than the digital signal wouldn't be recognized anymore, sounds similar to Richardo's problem. Your Optoma tech response is probably a hang over from the many H31 callers.

But I know, you guys spent time and money on your HTPC's and you want to use them.

Actually, I use it because it's better :) Otherwise, I'd sell it.

It seems someone finally cracked the case on an H78DC3:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=561870

It seems someone finally cracked the case on an H78DC3:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=561870

They should print Themescene Dark Chip3 on the cover. 78/79 I'll bet it carries a nifty price, though dealers may fight the price down nicely. Wonder what the Euro street price is?

Bill, I know what you're thinking, who's going to be the first for open the USA H78. I think the sticker they're seeing will be in our H78. Looks like that's were the Dark 3 chip is, inside the light chamber. Probably a drop in part. But no little mouse running around inside inspecting top notch other parts. :)

I have not tried reseating the lamp, yet, and where my H79 is hung the temperature there is around 68* so it did not seem to hot (it was only running for 40 mnutes or so). The manual's error code show it to be a lamp failure and that is all it states. I guess we will see how it shakes out. If the unit fails again I may see if I can get my money back - three failures on three machines with so few hours seem excessive to me.
I owned a Marantz S1 for 3 1/2 years (hung in same place) and except for my bulb exploding ( in the first 70 hours ) it was trouble free.

There's a trigger jobbo on the bulb door also, see that it's hitting the key at the right spot. Maybe you should try a full rest in the service menu also.

Bill, I know what you're thinking, who's going to be the first for open the USA H78. I think the sticker they're seeing will be in our H78. Looks like that's were the Dark 3 chip is, inside the light chamber. Probably a drop in part. But no little mouse running around inside inspecting top notch other parts. :)

Actually Tom, I'm expecting the guys at Cine4Home to give both the light engine and the mice pretty thorough full body cavity searches... ;)

Regarding HTPCs - one factor may be the video card that you are using too. There are buggy drivers as well, and it does not mean the H79 is at fault unless it is proven. If it worked once and not again, that could imply to me that some setting in the HPTC messed up (i.e. plug-and-play problem).

I have gone the HTPC route for several years but now exclusively use players. I spent more time debugging the HTPC than watching movies then (though it was fun at the time ;)

Hi Rich4av,

I am a computer programmer for 10 years now ! I've tested with 3 different computers and 3 different video cards. Not to mention different cables and software (Powerstrip) ! And Optoma did recognize that for some unknow reason their DDC Interface was not working and tried to reflash the projectors to fix the problem. After they re-flash it and send it back: the problem appeared again.

Ricardo Perdigao

What video cards?

I had the same exact problem as you, MichaelZ. I called Optoma and they recommended that they try swapping the bulb for me. They said the fastest way to do this is for me to drive to their office in Milpitas, CA, since I live only about 25 min away. I asked them if I could swap the entire projector itself, since I didn't feel like having to drive there again if the simple bulb swap didn't do the trick. After swapping the projector, I haven't had the projector go dark on me once.

Hi Thirdkind,

ATI ALL in Wonder X600 (256 Mb)
nVidia 256MB PCI Express x16 GeForce 6800
nVidia Geforce FX 5200 (128 Mb)

Ricardo Perdigão

Were you using the latest drivers available? All of those should have no problem supporting 1280x720 natively. Powerstrip isn't necessary.

I find it really odd that you went through two projectors and you couldn't get one of them to work with your PC. Granted, the EDID on the H79 is messed up (it reports 1280x1024 as the highest supported resolution, but I had no problems getting 1920x1080 to work), but any fairly recent nVidia drivers allow you to use resolutions not officially supported by the display. All you have to do is uncheck the "Hide resolutions not supported by this monitor" box in the driver options. The video card ignores the EDID data if you do this.

Using a scaler is no different than using a video card that ignores EDID. The scaler sends whatever resolution you tell it to.

Does anyone know how to replace the bulb in a H79? Does it require a special allen wrench? Or am I missing something?

Brad

Thirdkind,

Yes, I used the latest drivers ! What did not work was not that it did not support the resolution. It's DCC Interface did not work. Usually the computer won't send image to the device until the device indentifies itself using the DDC interface. Through the DDC interface the device will tell the computer who is the manufacuter, the resolution and the refresh rate that it supports. And the reason that me and Optoma needed the Powerstrip program is because using it you will be able to query the monitor and test the DDC Interface. If you query your H79 using Powerstrip and it returns: Optoma H77 and all other information: Great ... You DDC interface still works and I would not recomend playing too much with connecting and disconnecting your projector and your computer. If Powerstrip times out and is not able to query your monitor: call Optoma and they will ask your projector to reflash it. Because they do know what DDC interface is and why it is so important for Plug and Play.

Ricardo Perdigao

Does anyone know how to replace the bulb in a H79? Does it require a special allen wrench? Or am I missing something?

Brad
Just a small allen wrench. The gold screws all have the same allen face. Allen face, I discovered a new word. :)

No offense Alan

A wish for a new optional feature for Optoma H79, and comments about screens:

With both my GreyWolf and High Power 106" screens, the H79 with it's 250 watt bulb (with briteMode = off) seems much brighter than necessary -- perhaps more than twice as bright!

Therefore, if possible, I wish Optoma would sell an optional, say, 130 watt low-power lamp assembly for the H79.

Such a very-low output bulb would generate much less heat, consume less electricity, perhaps last longer, & be more suitable even with a "GreyWolf" screen (G=1.8) in a totally dark room (perhaps certainly true for the High Power screen (actual reported G ~ 3.3) -- perhaps H79 brightness would remain OK even if the lower power lamp's light output drops to half as the bulb ages.

The anecdotal reason I feel that a lower power lamp is justified for the H79 (at least for my 106" screens): The times that I forgot to remove the H79's protective dark grey plastic lens cap before viewing movies the picture was still plenty bright with the GreyWolf & perhaps the highlights still too bright with the High Power (IMO only, of course).

Just think how cool the H79 would run with only a 130 watt lamp!

I would probably no longer feel the need to use a small fan to avoid possible amber light flashing during H79 turnoff-cooldown (of course, not everyone has seen this particular behavior with their H79). The quiet external fan I use doesn't seem to raise the noise level, and is inexpensive [Walmart] relatively quiet 12" metal fan [on the low speed setting] - the fan is pointed at the bottom [air-intake] of the mid-screen height-mounted projector).

Having used both the GreyWolf and the High power screens, both of course have their pluses and minuses. However, overall, I feel that the High Power probably is the better screen because of the way images can appear more vivid, & sometimes just seem to jump right out of the screen (IMO).

IMO, even if the Greywolf has a bit better black level, the high contrast of the H79 still renders satisfactory, if not great shadow details with the High Power screen -- even when white-highlights tend to be brighter than than they should be.

Bill13

I'd love to see a variable iris in the Optoma. I know this doesn't have any of the benefits you mention with regards heat, lamp life etc, but it does give the option of more contrast or a brighter image, depending on an individuals preferences.

Gary.

My wife and I watched Star Trek VI - The Undiscovered Country Sat. night on our H79 - that movie looks stunning on this projector. Sometimes I forget just how good some DVD's can look and this is one of them ( fun movie too )!!

Anyone know why H79 always appears in RED in this thread - maybe it's just because it's a red hot PJ !! I did a search for H79 some time ago and maybe ever since then it's been red - can't figure it..........

Please disregard my last post - the H79 is no longer red - immediately after I posted. But I'm sure it's still a red hot PJ :D

I've been seeing different names pop up all over the place regarding owning this projector. The number amount is massive, I'm going to step outside and say this machine and it's new brother the H78dc3 are going to be the most owned pj's in this forum. A title that use to be owned by the NEC HT1000. Betcha a ton of previous HT1000 owners now have this one. Craig once said the H79 is a HT1000 on steroids :)

Craig you're right about dvd looking so detailed. Just this morning I was watching Galaxy Quest for breakfast and thought the image was extremely crisp sharp and detailed. Just to see I checked the Oppos sharpness feature and oddly it was set to off, then I went to the PJ sharpness level and it was a the minimum 1. Very surprised to see such a sharp image with no help at all. I think it's the excellent lens it has.

I think I have a classic idea for a new thread.

I've been seeing different names pop up all over the place regarding owning this projector. The number amount is massive, I'm going to step outside and say this machine and it's new brother the H78dc3 are going to be the most owned pj's in this forum. A title that use to be owned by the NEC HT1000. Betcha a ton of previous HT1000 owners now have this one. Craig once said the H79 is a HT1000 on steroids :)

Craig you're right about dvd looking so detailed. Just this morning I was watching Galaxy Quest for breakfast and thought the image was extremely crisp sharp and detailed. Just to see I checked the Oppos sharpness feature and oddly it was set to off, then I went to the PJ sharpness level and it was a the minimum 1. Very surprised to see such a sharp image with no help at all. I think it's the excellent lens it has.

I think I have a classic idea for a new thread.


Guitarman,

Add me to the list of people who now own the H79. It is such a huge step up from the Sharp 9000 I was using before. I watched HD Getaways Bora Bora the other day, and then again the day after and then clips from it for a couple of days more. If you want demo material to impress friends, this is the program for you. Picture postcard material - rich and deep color, from brilliant beaches to the most beautiful sunsets I've ever seen. Images so beautiful, they almost hurt. And sharpness set to minimum. This H79 doesn't need any artificial help.

Thanks, Guitarman, for this thread. It's what got me lusting after this projector.

Please disregard my last post - the H79 is no longer red - immediately after I posted. But I'm sure it's still a red hot PJ :D

I assume that you did a search on the term H79? When browsing threads from search hits, the keywords are highlighted in red.

Kevin

Hi Kevin - yes, I expected the red highlights after my initial search, but the thing was the highlighting just would not go away when I accessed the thread from scratch (without searching) even days later! Now I've deleted the thread in question from my favorites list the highlighting has finally gone. A couple of replies back I posted the red highlights had gone - well they came back again, and it was only when I deleted the thread from my internet favorites that the highlighting went for good - funny old thing Windows eh!! :rolleyes: But back on topic - I'm 99% sure my next PJ is gonna be the H79. My local(ish) dealer here in the UK is expecting stock imminently, and providing his initial impressions are good and his first customers are happy, I'm going to take the plunge - I'm really excited about getting this puppy installed for the winter HT season. I've been advised to stick with my 100" diagonal 1.3 gain Vutec Pro screen (white) and am planning to use a 0.3ND filter for starters to get some really "inky" blacks :) I only ever watch in optimum (no stray light) conditions. Always pleased to hear from any H79 owners with experience of Neutral Density filters.

Twice now, my Optoma H79 has mysteriously reset its User Menu Advanced Settings RGB values to some off the wall numbers that destroy the image. Yes, I was in the Service Menu ADC and Picture sections, but not in the Auto Calibrate sections. (I'll double check with the ISF calibrator I hired on this.) We were there to set those values to the numbers at the beginning of this thread.

Anyway, for no reason I can determine, the RGB values blew up, twice. Thought I'd check here before wasting another calibration session. Did I activate the Service Menu self destruct mode?

No you did nothing in the service menu that could hurt anything.

You have one tuned signal using the User Advanced adjustment and it's changing numbers? Sounds wierd.

I figure you saved the tuned numbers at least so you could put them back at anytime. You could try a full reset if this keeps up. Write down all of the numbers in the service area and reset the machine in the service area. But first have the user rgb's you did set to zero. After the reset check for any service are numbers that might be different then before, use you records to fix them. Then do the User RGB and see if it sticks. I never use the user reset feature. Because one time I used the one that resets the user RGB and noticed my service area number went different, I think in the Picture area. The colors looked off but I saved my old service numbers and fixed it back.

Doing that will reset the lamp timer but you'll still have the projector usage available in the service area, so you know where you're at time wise.

No you did nothing in the service menu that could hurt anything.

You have one tuned signal using the User Advanced adjustment and it's changing numbers? Sounds wierd.

I figure you saved the tuned numbers at least so you could put them back at anytime. You could try a full reset if this keeps up. Write down all of the numbers in the service area and reset the machine in the service area. But first have the user rgb's you did set to zero. After the reset check for any service are numbers that might be different then before, use you records to fix them. Then do the User RGB and see if it sticks. I never use the user reset feature. Because one time I used the one that resets the user RGB and noticed my service area number went different, I think in the Picture area. The colors looked off but I saved my old service numbers and fixed it back.

Doing that will reset the lamp timer but you'll still have the projector usage available in the service area, so you know where you're at time wise.

My apologies. I did do something to these numbers, although inadvertently. Mea culpa.

Thanks for the tips anyway, Tom. They're useful.

No you did nothing in the service menu that could hurt anything.

You have one tuned signal using the User Advanced adjustment and it's changing numbers? Sounds wierd.

I figure you saved the tuned numbers at least so you could put them back at anytime. You could try a full reset if this keeps up. Write down all of the numbers in the service area and reset the machine in the service area. But first have the user rgb's you did set to zero. After the reset check for any service are numbers that might be different then before, use you records to fix them. Then do the User RGB and see if it sticks. I never use the user reset feature. Because one time I used the one that resets the user RGB and noticed my service area number went different, I think in the Picture area. The colors looked off but I saved my old service numbers and fixed it back.

Doing that will reset the lamp timer but you'll still have the projector usage available in the service area, so you know where you're at time wise.

The reason my User RGB values changed was that I changed the Service Area Picture numbers. Are you saying that these numbers should be able to be set independently and stick? The first part of the thread seems to indicate this, because there are different numbers for User and Service Menu RGB areas.

Also, I know you have an Oppo DVD player. I just got mine. Here's the issue: when I try to use the standard H79 calibration numbers (the ones I use with my Dish 921 DVR) for the Oppo, the brightness and contrast are way off. Both need to be cranked up dramatically. (They are going through a Lumagen HDP with the initial numbers for both devices set the same on the two different Lumagen DVI inputs.) So, if I increase contrast and brightness on the Lumagen input for the Oppo, the image begins to look normal. The question is, why the need for such different numbers for contrast and brightness? Is the upconverted Oppo DVI signal (720p) that much different than the Dish 921 DVI signal (also at 720p)?

To give a more specific example, in order to see the dark stripe in the pluge pattern in Avia with the Oppo, the Lumagen black level must be increased from its default of 128 to a value of 154. This blows the image out for the Dish 921, which looks OK with a Lumagen default value of 128. The net effect of all this is not being able to use Avia or DVE to set brightness, the first step in calibration - if the DVD looks good, the Dish 921 has its black level completely blown out. The same thing happens when using a Sony DVD player with component interlaced output through the Lumagen's component input - seeing the dark stripe in the pluge pattern requires setting the Lumagen black level so high that the 921 is blown out. DVDs look spectacular, but all the HD stuff from the 921 is dead.

I know I'm missing something, hopefully something simple. Ignorance is a terrible thing. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

What do you have the levels set to on the Lumagen input? Sounds like something in the chain has the levels set wrong. The default on the H7x is video levels, the default on my Lumagen is PC levels which I changed to match my chain (video levels). I don't remember if you set the levels per input or on teh output. Per inpur IIRC.

Anyway, it *sounds* like you have a device in teh chain with mismatched video levels.

FWIW, I have the Lumagen HDP, too. My DVD player is SDI in, which ought to be very similar to a RGB DVI in. And I have a HD Comcast box via component. The brightness and contrast aren't hugely different on those, although I'm no home where I can look at their exact values so I cannot say definatively.

You need to set the Oppo's onboard brightness level to plus 5 to pass proper black level for video single levels. Otherwise the blacks are crushed out (you'll see no moving black bars with the Avia black bars pattern).

What do you have the levels set to on the Lumagen input? Sounds like something in the chain has the levels set wrong. The default on the H7x is video levels, the default on my Lumagen is PC levels which I changed to match my chain (video levels). I don't remember if you set the levels per input or on teh output. Per inpur IIRC.

Anyway, it *sounds* like you have a device in teh chain with mismatched video levels.

FWIW, I have the Lumagen HDP, too. My DVD player is SDI in, which ought to be very similar to a RGB DVI in. And I have a HD Comcast box via component. The brightness and contrast aren't hugely different on those, although I'm no home where I can look at their exact values so I cannot say definatively.

Don't think this is the problem, but it's possible. Maybe Tom can say whether the Oppo is outputting PC level or Video level. I can't find a reference to that in the manual. As for the other stuff - the Optoma is set up for Video level DVI. On the Lumagen, both the Dish 921 and the Oppo are set up for Video level input and the output is set to Video level, too.

I'm baffled why the Lumagen defaults to PC level DVI, when most of us are going to have devices which have Video level DVI. When I've had to do a restore on the Lumagen, it sets the 11 pt. settings back to where I had them saved, but the DVI levels default back to PC.

You need to set the Oppo's onboard brightness level to plus 5 to pass proper black level for video single levels. Otherwise the blacks are crushed out (you'll see no moving black bars with the Avia black bars pattern).

Thanks, Tom. I just caught your post when I responded. I'll try that.

What do you have the levels set to on the Lumagen input? Sounds like something in the chain has the levels set wrong. The default on the H7x is video levels, the default on my Lumagen is PC levels which I changed to match my chain (video levels). I don't remember if you set the levels per input or on teh output. Per inpur IIRC.

Anyway, it *sounds* like you have a device in teh chain with mismatched video levels.

FWIW, I have the Lumagen HDP, too. My DVD player is SDI in, which ought to be very similar to a RGB DVI in. And I have a HD Comcast box via component. The brightness and contrast aren't hugely different on those, although I'm no home where I can look at their exact values so I cannot say definatively.

I suspect you are right, after what Tom said. There was probably a mismatch of PC/Video levels in my chain, which includes a MyHD. In some ways, that's been the hardest thing to get information on with this setup. I posted a few days ago on a MyHD thread to find out if the MyHD outputs PC or Video level DVI. So far, I've gotten no response on that question.

During the next couple of days I'm going to reconfigure my setup with four DVI inputs - two MyHD's, the Oppo DVD player and Dish 921. They'll be going through a five input Zektor DVI switcher. When all is said and done I should have the answers to the PC vs Video level questions.

Thanks, GetGray, for the feedback. Even though I'm going through some pains getting there, the H79/Lumagen combo is a really flexible arrangement. Although the Lumagen has only two DVI inputs, each one can have up to four different configurations, so each DVI source that I'll have hooked up to the Zektor can have its own settintgs.

You need to set the Oppo's onboard brightness level to plus 5 to pass proper black level for video single levels. Otherwise the blacks are crushed out (you'll see no moving black bars with the Avia black bars pattern).

Hey, Tom, do you know the answer to the first part of my question? Have you been able to make independent changes in the Service Menu Picture section and the User Menu Advanced Adjustments that stick in both?

Thanks.

Hey, Tom, do you know the answer to the first part of my question? Have you been able to make independent changes in the Service Menu Picture section and the User Menu Advanced Adjustments that stick in both?

Thanks.Waaaay back in the H77 thread I made some observations on that issue. I found if I changed the service level RGB's that the PJ changed the user-level numbers correspondingly. This would seem like correct behavior as the user menu is really a subset of the range on the service menu. I also found that some parameters were input specific and I had to be in the particular input before making any SM changes. IIRC.

I think the problem most folks are having with these adjustments is they can't get PC level adjustments to "stick". Getting to PC levels after doing a resync on DVI that is. I wonder if anyone has done the resync to PC levels THEN gone into the SM and made a change to see if it sticks? Becasue I had to do that sequence with other inputs and some were per input and input resolution. Don't remember which.

I'm no betting man but if I were I would not be betting on any big FW fixes from Optoma. Even if they released one, I only know of 3 people (including Optoma) that have the FW loader. Dave Harper is one of them and now he's with AVS so that's a possibility. But alas, I wouldn't be holding my breath for any FW releases. :mad: I mean how long has this issue (and others) been identified??.

I saw on the Lumagen forum the other day where bug was noticed and in less than 24 hours it was duplicated, identified, fixed, and a new FW released for the customers to self-load. 24 hours. Now that's the way it ought to be.

I think the problem most folks are having with these adjustments is they can't get PC level adjustments to "stick". Getting to PC levels after doing a resync on DVI that is. I wonder if anyone has done the resync to PC levels THEN gone into the SM and made a change to see if it sticks? Becasue I had to do that sequence with other inputs and some were per input and input resolution. Don't remember which.

This means, doesn't it, that the H79/Lumagen configuration should never require a resync on the H79? The Lumagen output defaults to a single configuration for all inputs, unless you specify otherwise. I believe, since the Lumagen output can be configured as PC or Video level, the Lumagen accepts PC or Video level DVI inputs and then creates a Video level output from that to feed the H79. As such, the H79 would not need to resync, since it's now getting Video level all the time from the Lumagen. This doesn't do much to answer the question for those who don't have the Lumagen, of course.

Joseph,

Your gonna get to AVS Special Member in one thread. :) :)

Joseph,

Your gonna get to AVS Special Member in one thread. :) :)

That's only one of my goals. With each new foray I make into home theater and the HTPC, I plan to ask questions that lurkers may be afraid to ask for fear of appearing too foolish. And thanks, BTW, for helping make part of my dream come true by allowing me to post again.

This means, doesn't it, that the H79/Lumagen configuration should never require a resync on the H79? The Lumagen output defaults to a single configuration for all inputs, unless you specify otherwise. I believe, since the Lumagen output can be configured as PC or Video level, the Lumagen accepts PC or Video level DVI inputs and then creates a Video level output from that to feed the H79. As such, the H79 would not need to resync, since it's now getting Video level all the time from the Lumagen. This doesn't do much to answer the question for those who don't have the Lumagen, of course.Well, I wouldn't exactly word it that way, but yes, one huge advantage to the Lumagen is the H7x never resyncs. And yes, you can set it to Video levels out and all inputs should transcode to the proper levels. The H7x syncs ONE time, when it's turned on, that's it. And this actually happens before teh bulb warms up, so you never see it. There's even a setting on the lumagen so if you accidentally choose the same source, even it (the Lumagen) won't resync , very nice. The main tidbit in here related to levels though is that the Lumagen will transcode a DVD player set a PC levels to the naitive output-input to the H7x of video levels.

The main tidbit in here related to levels though is that the Lumagen will transcode a DVD player set a PC levels to the naitive output-input to the H7x of video levels.

So, the mistake I've been making with the Oppo is to have its Lumagen input set at Video level DVI, rather than PC? Sounds like I might be better off setting the Oppo Lumagen input to PC and not resetting the Oppo brightness, and let the Lumagen do the transcoding. I'll try it both ways when I get the equipment reconfigured, to see if there's any difference.

Thanks.

So, the mistake I've been making with the Oppo is to have its Lumagen input set at Video level DVI, rather than PC? Sounds like I might be better off setting the Oppo Lumagen input to PC and not resetting the Oppo brightness, and let the Lumagen do the transcoding. I'll try it both ways when I get the equipment reconfigured, to see if there's any difference.

Thanks.Yes, that's what it sounded like from your description to me. But I don't have an oppo, can't speak to which levels it uses. There are 2, it has to use one or the other, there is no gray area for that setting, no pun intended.

1st choice is to have the entire chain match video->video->video. 2nd choice is to have the scaler do the transcode if you have different sources, and always output one level to the PJ. Last choice (not a choice IMO) is to try to adjust everthing to compensate for the mismatches. Having the scaler do the transcode would be the proper thing IMO. If the Oppo is natively set to use PC levels on it's output, I don't think artificially adjusting it's brightness/contrast to conform to video ranges is the optimal thing to do. You want that transcode to happen in the digital domain if possible, and the Lumagen should handle that transcode effortlessly.

You can ask Lumagen for confirmation, or post a note in the processors forum. One of their lead engineers (Pat Harkin) is responsive there to technical questions (if he's not on the way to CEDIA). But I'm pretty confident about my answer above.

[QUOTE=GetGray]Having the scaler do the transcode would be the proper thing IMO. If the Oppo is natively set to use PC levels on it's output, I don't think artificially adjusting it's brightness/contrast to conform to video ranges is the optimal thing to do. You want that transcode to happen in the digital domain if possible, and the Lumagen should handle that transcode effortlessly. QUOTE]

By setting the Lumagen input for the Oppo DVD player to PC level DVI, I am able to see the pluge pattern in Avia, so you seem to have been right on with your analysis. Raising the Oppo's brightness did much the same thing, but I have to believe you're right that the Lumagen will do a better job transcoding the PC level to Video level.

Special note: I began with the Optoma set to the brightness and contrast levels at the beginning of this thread - -1 for brightness and 9 for contrast. These levels give me wonderful contrast on HD material, so I didn't want to set brightness and contrast with the Avia patterns using the Optoma controls. Instead, I used the Lumagen controls to set the Avia brightness and contrast levels for the Oppo. They went from default values of 128 to 106 for brightness and 158 for contrast.

This seemed the logical thing to do, but I'm not sure. Can Avia be used with these settings on the Oppo/Lumagen to calibrate for HD now (by using Avia, copying the calibration settings to the Dish 921 input and then readjusting contrast and brightness on the Lumagen input for the 921)?

I just purchased the H79 and using a matte white 1.0 gain screen.
Should I update the screen to 1.3 gain?

Nope, Mat White is excellent with the H79. MW is excellent for keeping colors neutral plus the H79 is on the bright side. Going to a high gain screen like I did maybe adding 1.5 gain is too bright and brings out video noise. I'm much happier with 1.0gain.

I noticed there's no offset on the H79. My ceiling is only about 8ft high and with my 4805 mounted approx. 1/2ft from the ceiling it lines up perfectly with my screen. However, if I got a H79 and the lowest it can throw the image is centre line of lens at top of screen I will have to lower the projector another foot or so. One of the reasons I want a new pj, is the 4805 is so damn loud. If I have to drop the H79 down further, kind of defeats the purpose, not to mention comes close to my standing height. I can just imagine one of my friends cheering at a hockey game and taking out my pj! =D I only see 2 options, drop the pj or drop the screen. Can I do anything else?

Also, any recommendations for a good inexpensive mount?

I have 8' ceilings, you have to raise the screen so the projectors not too low. I think my shelf mount is down about 15".

I've had my H79 for a little while now, and I've been very happy with it for the most part. However, I've just started to notice some weird issues with the picture. These seem to be getting worse, but it's possible I just started noticing them for the first time. Hopefully you guys can help, I'm not even sure what the correct terms for the problems are, so I'll try to describe them.

1. The picture seems to have a green glowing problem. It seems to affect normal film/video, but it is really noticeable with animation such as the Simpsons. Every character seems to have a green glowing outline. I recently pulled up the color bars on Avia, and the yellow bar has a green line running down its right side.

2. The other problem I can best describe as very noticeable gradients. Kinda like when a picture is a low bit depth and the transition from color to color is not smooth. Blotchy is maybe another way to put it.

I see these problems no matter the source (HD, SD, DVD). Video scaler is a Lumagen, but taking it out of the chain, or resetting it to factory settings does not fix the problems.

Any help is appreciated!

I've had my H79 for a little while now, and I've been very happy with it for the most part. However, I've just started to notice some weird issues with the picture. These seem to be getting worse, but it's possible I just started noticing them for the first time. Hopefully you guys can help, I'm not even sure what the correct terms for the problems are, so I'll try to describe them.

1. The picture seems to have a green glowing problem. It seems to affect normal film/video, but it is really noticeable with animation such as the Simpsons. Every character seems to have a green glowing outline. I recently pulled up the color bars on Avia, and the yellow bar has a green line running down its right side.

2. The other problem I can best describe as very noticeable gradients. Kinda like when a picture is a low bit depth and the transition from color to color is not smooth. Blotchy is maybe another way to put it.

I see these problems no matter the source (HD, SD, DVD). Video scaler is a Lumagen, but taking it out of the chain, or resetting it to factory settings does not fix the problems.

Any help is appreciated!

Have you had your pj ISF calibrated? Done any greyscale tuning with advanced adjustments?

Have you had your pj ISF calibrated? Done any greyscale tuning with advanced adjustments?

Yes. Calibration equipment was Sencore and the H79 is hooked up to a Lumagen HDP via DVI.

I started by using the settings found in WSR (TV-1 and color temp 2). I was expecting my readings to be close to those in WSR, but they were not. I tried placing the sensor different places, finally settling on pointing towards the projector, about 12 inches from the screen.

I didn't write down my initial readings, but the 100 IRE window was around 8500k. From there, it dropped to around 5000k on the 20 IRE window. I changed the settings in the H79 to dial in 100 IRE, also changed to color temp 1 since 100 IRE dropped to 8200k. I used red as the limiting color (the one kept unchanged). I had to drop blue and green contrast quite a bit.

From there I calibrated 10-90 IRE in the Lumagen. What was strange was I needed the increase the blue and green gains in all cases. Seems red was high for all except for 100 IRE.

In any case, these changes did not have any affect on the problems I described earlier.

I've had my H79 for a little while now, and I've been very happy with it for the most part. However, I've just started to notice some weird issues with the picture. These seem to be getting worse, but it's possible I just started noticing them for the first time. Hopefully you guys can help, I'm not even sure what the correct terms for the problems are, so I'll try to describe them.

1. The picture seems to have a green glowing problem. It seems to affect normal film/video, but it is really noticeable with animation such as the Simpsons. Every character seems to have a green glowing outline. I recently pulled up the color bars on Avia, and the yellow bar has a green line running down its right side.

2. The other problem I can best describe as very noticeable gradients. Kinda like when a picture is a low bit depth and the transition from color to color is not smooth. Blotchy is maybe another way to put it.

I see these problems no matter the source (HD, SD, DVD). Video scaler is a Lumagen, but taking it out of the chain, or resetting it to factory settings does not fix the problems.

Any help is appreciated!

Number 2 bothers me because what you're describing is what I noticed when I hooked up my DVI inputs to a Zektor switcher. The output, not matter what it was, exhibited this problem (MyHD, Oppo DVD player, Dish 921). Low bit depth is exactly how I'd describe the symptom, 8-bit or lower.

I have an RMA for the Zektor, but if it persists with a replacement then it may indicate some other issue. Are you going straight into the Optoma or through a switcher, and how long is your cable run?

Also, I realized after I posted earlier the question about using the Oppo for calibrating the Optoma how lame it was. If the contrast and brightness are so different for the Oppo, then it's very unlikely it can be used to calibrate the Optoma, at least not the way I was suggesting.

I am working with a local calibrator, who is researching all these issues, but I wanted to test the waters here to try to get a better handle on what is going on from this experienced group. I'm continuing to test today - haven't had much time the last couple of days.

I just purchased the Oppo DVD player - any suggestion on contrast, brightness, saturation settings? Using with Optoma H79

thanks - how about the Vutec Silverstar with the H79?

I just purchased the Oppo DVD player - any suggestion on contrast, brightness, saturation settings? Using with Optoma H79


Glen tested the oppo with his Accupel HD3000 and found the Oppo brightness needed to be set at 5 for proper video level brightness, the others are at stock/zero.

"From there I calibrated 10-90 IRE in the Lumagen. What was strange was I needed the increase the blue and green gains in all cases. Seems red was high for all except for 100 IRE"

I don't see any color problem, I use TV, gamma 1, CT-2. We first tune the basics with Avia/DVE, then max out red and tuning G/B to reach 65k, in the low end we leave green alone because that was set when we first did the basic black level adjustment, then using just R/B to reach 65k. After the first run we check the basics again and in the same way tune highs and lows to 65k again.

Sure wish we could move the User menu because of all the spikes. I asked about a firmware for the H79 and reply was not now all resources are working on the new products. I want one, of the new products I mean. :)

thanks - how about the Vutec Silverstar with the H79?

I haven't heard of anyone using the SS with the H79. H79 is a very bright projector. Maybe if you're planning a 140" screen it would work ok.

Number 2 bothers me because what you're describing is what I noticed when I hooked up my DVI inputs to a Zektor switcher. The output, not matter what it was, exhibited this problem (MyHD, Oppo DVD player, Dish 921). Low bit depth is exactly how I'd describe the symptom, 8-bit or lower.

I have an RMA for the Zektor, but if it persists with a replacement then it may indicate some other issue. Are you going straight into the Optoma or through a switcher, and how long is your cable run?


I have a long cable 50' from RAM. I got sparkles with that cable, added a Gefen DVI extender near the projector end of the chain and the sparkles went away. I'll have to play around with cables and see if that is the problem.

1. The picture seems to have a green glowing problem. It seems to affect normal film/video, but it is really noticeable with animation such as the Simpsons. Every character seems to have a green glowing outline. I recently pulled up the color bars on Avia, and the yellow bar has a green line running down its right side.

I just took a closer look at the Simpsons (who are obviously yellow) and noticed that just like the color bars, they have a glowing green line down the right sides of their bodies.

I'll try to get pictures up later this weekend.

Glen tested the oppo with his Accupel HD3000 and found the Oppo brightness needed to be set at 5 for proper video level brightness, the others are at stock/zero.

The calibrator I'm working with got information on this from another calibrator who is working on a review of the Oppo. His first update to me on this is that apparently the Oppo manufacturers use values from 0 to 235 for the Oppo, which I'm hoping is why I had such strange results when I set the Lumagen at PC values for the Oppo. If this is true, Guitarman, then sometimes there are gray areas for DVI levels, instead of just PC or Video. It sure muddies the water, though. I'm going to try tests later with just a brightness increase and see if this brings the Lumagen/Oppo brightness-contrast numbers more in line with those for the Dish 921. For someone like me, who is trying to come to terms with some basic concepts right now, the confusion is magnified by things like this.

One thing, if you max out the lens shift you'll notice a color ghost on the focus/zoom grid. Back off the lens shift and it goes away. I don't think this is your problem though. I can see what you're talking about with the Pany S97 and Oppo thru DVI, those units cause a stepping problem and wave contouring in grayramps. You'll see the steps with colorbars.

Using my Denon 1600 there's little or no contouring or stepping problem. Some of what you're seeing with the Simpsons could also be some EE. Looks like some of it is source/device problems. I'll try my Bravo D2 next time and see if it compares to the Denon 1600.

Anyway when I view movies with the Pansonic I really don't see anything that bothers me, even with the tough contouring scenes.

Guitarman,

Here's the link for the Oppo using DVI RGB values between 0-235.

http://www.hdlibrary.com/viewtopic.php?t=2372

First I was using brightness at 4 but I trust the findings of the Accupel HD3000 since it's reference. I'm getting an Accupel next week so I'll see what Glen was talking about.

Guitarman,

Here's the link for the Oppo using DVI RGB values between 0-235. ...

The link says, "It appears that the DVI output is RGB but preset for 0-235 since the contrast control was not touched and there was no clipping. The Samsung is calibrated for a 16-235 RGB DVI response."

I doubt that it is 0-235. That conclusion does not follow from the statement that there was no clipping. I can imagine a manufacturer shifting the 16-235 (black to reference white) levels to 0-219 by subtracting 16, and then not scaling that to 0-255 (DVI-PC levels). (The levels should be 16-235, but by shifting to 0-219 and not scaling, the black level matches the DVI-PC black level and there will be no clipping above the reference white.) But it makes no sense to shift and then scale to 0-235, which will create contouring problems. Of course manufacturers have been known to do things that don't make sense, but I doubt they would do that. Putting a contrast control on an 8-bit DVI output makes no sense either, so I won't say it isn't 0-235, but I doubt that it is.

Anyway, the fact that the person in the link saw no clipping, doesn't prove the white reference level was 235, it could have been 219 and there would still be no clipping. The way to find out is to measure the projector's brightness with a 235 value from a known reference source and then compare that to the white reference brightness using the DVD player.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

"The way to find out is to measure the projector's brightness with a 235 value from a known reference source and then compare that to the white reference brightness using the DVD player."

Thanks, exactly what I plan to do next week with the Accupel. I'll need to test both the Oppo and the Pany S97. We are getting contouring problems with the Pany and Oppo. It shows up faintly in grayramp patterns. It can vary with different settings on the Pany but we haven't been able to eliminate it.

Grayramps to the H79 over component will show smooth gradients, actually very nice for a DLP projector.

One thing, if you max out the lens shift you'll notice a color ghost on the focus/zoom grid. Back off the lens shift and it goes away. I don't think this is your problem though. I can see what you're talking about with the Pany S97 and Oppo thru DVI, those units cause a stepping problem and wave contouring in grayramps. You'll see the steps with colorbars.

Using my Denon 1600 there's little or no contouring or stepping problem. Some of what you're seeing with the Simpsons could also be some EE. Looks like some of it is source/device problems. I'll try my Bravo D2 next time and see if it compares to the Denon 1600.

Anyway when I view movies with the Pansonic I really don't see anything that bothers me, even with the tough contouring scenes.

Yeah not the lens shift, I already checked that.

The contouring is definitely getting worse and worse. To rule out problems outside the projector, I tried several sources and connections. Both through the Lumagen and direct to the projector. Nothing solves either of my problems. I'm pretty certain it is the projector.

I've been on hold with Optoma tech support for over two hours. The operator assures me I'm in the queue. So far I'm not impressed with their support.

Have the image up and go to the service menu and adjust the CWI (color wheel index). Write down your old number. Don't enter other area's in the service menu, if you don't know what you're doing you could mess things up.

Looking from the back of the projector to the front, the four buttons in a row ontop, press the left two and the right one at the same time. Use the remote to move around, go in and out of an item by either the enter button or menu button. Use the cross arrows to decrease or increase CWI, start by decreasing.

Hope that helps.

"The way to find out is to measure the projector's brightness with a 235 value from a known reference source and then compare that to the white reference brightness using the DVD player."

Thanks, exactly what I plan to do next week with the Accupel. I'll need to test both the Oppo and the Pany S97. We are getting contouring problems with the Pany and Oppo. It shows up faintly in grayramp patterns. It can vary with different settings on the Pany but we haven't been able to eliminate it.

Grayramps to the H79 over component will show smooth gradients, actually very nice for a DLP projector.

Thanks, Greg and Tom. I'll be looking forward to that report. I'm going to pass this information on to the calibrator who sent me the link.

We are getting contouring problems with the Pany and Oppo. It shows up faintly in grayramp patterns. It can vary with different settings on the Pany but we haven't been able to eliminate it.

S97 sharpness setting can reduce contouring a little bit. If sharpness is set anything over 0, gray scale stepping gets much worse.

"I recently pulled up the color bars on Avia, and the yellow bar has a green line running down its right side."

Speaking about ghost lines in color bars. I was looking at the HT1000 with a Denon 1600 this morning and color bars do show lines next to each color bar. Actually one line on each side right where the line to seperate each color is. Probably normal for all displays, dvi or analog.

"I recently pulled up the color bars on Avia, and the yellow bar has a green line running down its right side."

Speaking about ghost lines in color bars. I was looking at the HT1000 with a Denon 1600 this morning and color bars do show lines next to each color bar. Actually one line on each side right where the line to seperate each color is. Probably normal for all displays, dvi or analog.

Thanks for your help guitarman. Your service menu adjustment improved my contouring problem.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I know there are a lot of knowledgable people that know the H79 on here. I figure this would be a good place to ask.

I am in the process of building my theater and will be using the H79. I am worried about all the heat the H79 put's out, heating my theater up.

Has anyone else had issues with heat build up in room using the H79. I am in Phoenix, so we use A/C the majority of the year.

I was wondering if it is necessary to maybe run a conduit from the H79 exhaust to the equipment room and use some type of computer cooling fan to draw the heat from projector through conduit to equip. room where my HVAC return will be ?

Has anyone else needed to do this, or is the heat not an issue in the room ?

Thanks for any help.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I know there are a lot of knowledgable people that know the H79 on here. I figure this would be a good place to ask.

I am in the process of building my theater and will be using the H79. I am worried about all the heat the H79 put's out, heating my theater up.

Has anyone else had issues with heat build up in room using the H79. I am in Phoenix, so we use A/C the majority of the year.

I was wondering if it is necessary to maybe run a conduit from the H79 exhaust to the equipment room and use some type of computer cooling fan to draw the heat from projector through conduit to equip. room where my HVAC return will be ?

Has anyone else needed to do this, or is the heat not an issue in the room ?

Thanks for any help.

At first, when I felt how hot the H79 gets, I was concerned. Practically speaking, it hasn't been an issue. My room gets a little warmer, but not noticeably warmer than with my old Sharp 9000.

I was going to add some sort of fan, but I really love how quiet this projector is, so I've decided against it. I never had a question as to whether my 9000 came on. I find myself looking up at the Optoma frequently to see if it fired up. It is as though its not there.

Thanks for your help guitarman. Your service menu adjustment improved my contouring problem.

How low did you have to lower the CWI, or what's the old CWI number vs the new?

How low did you have to lower the CWI, or what's the old CWI number vs the new?

Believe I went from 27/28 to 21/22. Any idea if this is a permanent solution or just temporary?

It's a tweak for contouring. Leave where it looks the best, it will stay that way.

Perhaps it's been covered in this mega-thread so excuse me if it has, but is there a cleanable filter in the H79? I've wondered lately if my fan is running a little faster after 7 months of use due to dust buildup.

Dan

Only the little one on the bottom of the unit (or top if it's upside down). Not much of a filter but it can clog.

There's a thin 4X6 foam filter that s/b washed and dryed maybe every 6months. The light chamber is still sheilded. The filter is extra X/dust precaution.

Tom and GetGray, thanks.

Dan

"The way to find out is to measure the projector's brightness with a 235 value from a known reference source and then compare that to the white reference brightness using the DVD player."

Thanks, exactly what I plan to do next week with the Accupel. I'll need to test both the Oppo and the Pany S97. We are getting contouring problems with the Pany and Oppo. It shows up faintly in grayramp patterns. It can vary with different settings on the Pany but we haven't been able to eliminate it.

Grayramps to the H79 over component will show smooth gradients, actually very nice for a DLP projector.

Guitarman,

Have you been able to run any of these tests? I'll be scheduling a full calibration for a week or so from now, and I'd like to know what you found out with the Accupel.

I'm going to throw out a couple of questions here, since I've been having trouble getting a definitive answer in other threads. I have a Dish 921, a Dish 6000 with the R5000 mod, and a MyHD. That configuration allows me to record to the Dish 921 and to computer, to get the same shows on both devices. I can play back and pause both, to do an A/B comparison. There seems to be only a slight brightness difference between the two signals. Does anyone know for sure if the MyHD is outputting DVI-Video or DVI-PC levels. It seems to be DVI-Video, but I wonder if anyone here has verified that or not.

Second question is if anyone is using a Zektor DVI switcher with their H79 gear? I got one last week and had the problem I described earlier with all the sources going in - what looks like low bit depth output from the Zektor to the H79. This happens on every output, from Sony DVD carousels, Oppo DVD player, Dish 921, Windows desktop. All the colors are there - RGB - but they all look like a low bit depth. I have a new Zektor coming Monday, but thought I'd check here to see if anyone has seen this before. (Output from the Lumagen that doesn't pass through the Zektor looks normal.)

Well one way I found out about video vs PC is with the Bravo at video mode with the H79 the black bars in the Avia pattern were gone. Not until I read Greg Rodgers review did I find I could bring the black bars back with using the resync PC level.

I don't get the Accupel until mid week/ next week.

The Oppo can be set to video level brightness by putting the players brightness to plus 5.

Well one way I found out about video vs PC is with the Bravo at video mode with the H79 the black bars in the Avia pattern were gone. Not until I read Greg Rodgers review did I find I could bring the black bars back with using the resync PC level.

I don't get the Accupel until mid week/ next week.

The Oppo can be set to video level brightness by putting the players brightness to plus 5.

So the Bravo also outputs PC level? That's interesting. I have the Lumagen, so I can set the Lumagen to PC level for the Oppo input and not worry about resync on the H79 or setting the Oppo's brightness to +5. I may get the calibration done before your report, so that's probably the way we'll proceed.

If you're reading, Greg, is there a clear explanation you can point me to on the differences between DVI-PC and DVI-Video levels? I've read the AVS thread that touches on this topic, but I still have lots of questions. I come from a more traditional video background, but I've worked a lot in computer programs like Adobe PhotoShop and Premiere, as well as other non-linear video editing systems. I think that may be part of my confusion. I thought I understood 8/24-bit color until I hit the DVI-V vs DVI-PC level issue. Now what I thought I understood makes no sense to me.

Second question is if anyone is using a Zektor DVI switcher with their H79 gear? I got one last week and had the problem I described earlier with all the sources going in - what looks like low bit depth output from the Zektor to the H79. This happens on every output, from Sony DVD carousels, Oppo DVD player, Dish 921, Windows desktop. All the colors are there - RGB - but they all look like a low bit depth. I have a new Zektor coming Monday, but thought I'd check here to see if anyone has seen this before. (Output from the Lumagen that doesn't pass through the Zektor looks normal.)


Joe, I have a Zektor, and an H77. How can I tell if it's putting out a low bit depth?
I'll check it out tommorrow.

Thanks,
Scott

The Oppo can be set to video level brightness by putting the players brightness to plus 5.That might be an apparant workaround, but I don't believe it's the same thing.

Joe, I have a Zektor, and an H77. How can I tell if it's putting out a low bit depth?
I'll check it out tommorrow.

Thanks,
Scott

You don't have the problem. If you did, you'd know it without question. Everything looks blotchy and unnatural, as though you took a 24-bit image in PhotoShop and reduced it to 8-bit (or less).

I have to give credit to Zektor for being responsive on this issue. I got the switcher at Digital Connection, who called Zektor and got a response from them as they were on their way back from Cedia. And Digital Connection called me the next day to ask if Zektor had helped. I'm impressed with that level of customer service by both companies.

Well one way I found out about video vs PC is with the Bravo at video mode with the H79 the black bars in the Avia pattern were gone. Not until I read Greg Rodgers review did I find I could bring the black bars back with using the resync PC level.

Tom,

Avia's black bars are not blacker than black and therefore shouldn't be affected whether the DVI is PC or Video specs. I think you may have that backwards. At PC level specs, anything "blacker than black" in the video signal will be crushed. With DVI Video levels (set at black = 16) that allows blacker than black and you would see PLUGE bars to adjust to the proper black level.

Avia didn't use blacker than black bars to set black level. They did this intentionally because at the time many DVD players couldn't pass blacker than black. Video Essentials on the other hand did have blacker than black PLUGE, which was the more correct way of setting black. This was one "advantage" of getting Avia over VE back then. (Unless of course you're talking about Avia Pro, then everything I just said is moot;)!!!)

If a DVD player's DVI output is made with PC video levels, there's nothing you can do to make it output Video levels, unless of course the manufacturer built in the ability to switch between PC and Video. What happens is that the 16-235 video range encoded on the DVD is "stretched out" to the 0-255 PC levels, thus losing your ability to view blacker than black and whiter than white.

The Oppo can be set to video level brightness by putting the players brightness to plus 5.

This can't happen. If the Oppo's DVI is set from the factory at PC levels, nothing you can do will give you true video levels. You are still losing blacker than black and whiter than white. Does the Oppo have a setting where you can choose whether the DVI outputs PC or Video levels??? By setting the brightness to +5 and it "looking correct", all you really did was take what was at 16 down to PC 0, then moved it back up to emulate 16. In the meantime you crushed anything that may have been encoded between video levels 0-15 (Below video Black 16)

Does anyone know for sure if the MyHD is outputting DVI-Video or DVI-PC levels. It seems to be DVI-Video, but I wonder if anyone here has verified that or not.

Joe, if you can get an HD test pattern with PLUGE and/or whiter than white then you should be able to tell whether it's video or PC. With PC they would be clipped.

Tom and HTAddict,

I´ve gotta a question: you said that it would be better if I chose a 720p over my 576p Optoma H57. So, which one should I choose between these two: the Sanyo Z3 or the Optoma H57?

Thank you!

Joe, if you can get an HD test pattern with PLUGE and/or whiter than white then you should be able to tell whether it's video or PC. With PC they would be clipped.

Thanks, Dave, for the input and the clarifications. Any idea where I could get hold of some HD test patterns which would allow me to check that out on the MyHD?

If you're reading, Greg, is there a clear explanation you can point me to on the differences between DVI-PC and DVI-Video levels?

I don't know what I would point you to, I think I've stated the difference several times in my reviews, although I can't remember which reviews had the most to say about it.

But what questions do you have? I think it's pretty straightforward so there must be some issues/confusion that haven't occurred to me.

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

Which screen would be better for an Optoma H7x: a Matte White 1.0 or a gray 1.1?

It depends on your size at least, and your gain requirements. Pleae don't double post to both H7x threads. Unless you have a small screen, I'd go with the higher gain personally. And all gray screens are not equal. "gray 1.1" is too ambigious. I recommend the Firehawk at 1.3 for most installations with any ambient light.

Yes, GetGrey said it. Most of the decision is based on ambient light as to what screen I suggest you use. That's what grey screens are for.

Thanks, Dave, for the input and the clarifications. Any idea where I could get hold of some HD test patterns which would allow me to check that out on the MyHD?

See GregR for that:)!!!!!! As his signature says, he is the man when it comes to HD test patterns because of his Accupel products. I suggest you maybe find someone to borrow or rent it from or buy one. It is a GREAT tool to have for any serious videophile.

I haven't used a MyHD card, but if there's a way to get either the HDNet or INHD HD test patterns that they play occasionally recorded you could potentially use that as a starting point.

"Tom,

Avia's black bars are not blacker than black and therefore shouldn't be affected whether the DVI is PC or Video specs. I think you may have that backwards"

To clear it up. We can't tune grayscales in PC mode so by putting the Oppo at brightness plus 5 we can use video mode. We're pushing the player into 0-255. Or we're putting the player into PC and using the projectors Video level, which is what hitting DVI gets you. It's a work around.

Glen tested the Oppo with the Accupel and got the plus 5 brightness figure to output 0-255.

Getting back to the Bravo with an Optoma in straight DVI/video. The blacks were crushed out. We'd have to use the resync to match 0-255.

Tom,

Yes, I understand that, but you are still clipping below black and above white. Not a huge deal and hard to see with DVDs that utilize them, which are few indeed. Like I said, you can get back to what appears correct, but clipping and crushing occurs.

How did he test the Oppo with an AccuPel? The Oppo doesn't have any inputs, does it? Or are you saying he used it as a baseline comparison?

Getting back to the Bravo with an Optoma in straight DVI/video. The blacks were crushed out. We'd have to use the resync to match 0-255.


Are you saying that the PLUGE was unviewable? What DVD test disc was it?

with the Accupel and got the plus 5 brightness figure to output 0-255.How you adjust brightness, how bright you make set it, and an output of 0-255 aren't the same thing per se. All of them output 0-255. For video levels black starts at 16, for PC levels black starts at 0. You might want to go study the "go-to guide for source settings" thread and get a firm handle on it. If the Oppo won't do video levels (and I don't know that), I would recommend to my customers to not use it with the PJ in video mode via DVI. Not if my customer was someone paying for a proper calibration.

I'm starting to think there's confusion here regarding PC and Video DVI settings.

With PC, "0" is black, giving no "headroom (can't think of the actual term right now...a$$room???, hehehe)" and "255" is peak white, again leaving no headroom.

With DVI Video, 16 is black and 235 is white, leaving headroom for both blacker than black and whiter than white info if the producer wishes.

When Video DVI, which is what is used in DVDs, is played back in a DVD player that only has DVI PC levels on it's output, then the normal value of 16 (video black in DVI VIdeo) is remapped to PC specs, which is a value of "0", therefore crushing any blacker than black info below DVI Video's black level 16. The same holds true for the whites from 236-255, just in the inverse.

Does that make any sense:confused:???

Well said GetGray:)!!! See my previous post for any confused viewers out there.

Glen said he pushed to Oppo to plus 5 bright to match the ref/level 0-255 of the Accupel. Actually I was using plus 4 and was able to tune black, but he said plus 5 is more accurate.

I use the all black moving bars pattern with good success. What I do is go up to the screen and make the left moving bar barely visible, where I can hardly see the dithering. If I got to a point where I can't see the left bar I'll lose detail in the blacks. I have DVE and Sound & Vision also. Guess I won't need them after I receive the Accupel. :)

Yeah, but is that left bar the PLUGE bar you are seeing or is it the 2% black bar that's just above video black? You may be crushing the actual PLUGE bar since it is below black and it seems your Oppo can't pass that because it's using PC levels.

I would DEFINITELY NOT get rid of your test DVDs. This is the exact case why you should have them. Every source is different and if possible you should ALWAYS use the source being connected to the system to do the calibration, not a known perfect test generator. It will give you false results. It is great to use as a reference of where it "should" be, but not the only source to calibrate.

The best thing to use the AccuPel for is setting up HD signals when your HD STB is the only thing you have and it doesn't have test patterns.

Guess I won't need them after I receive the Accupel. :)You will unless you are going to stop calibrating your sources. The signal generator will allow you to tune the projector to a "perfect" DVI or Component input. Few DVD players have perfect output, and you will need to do them, too. And you'll have to use calibration dics to do it. You will try to dial them in as close as possible to a perfect signal. Same goes for HD devices. But the accupel can't help you there since it has no HD RF out that you can feed into a STB.

It sounds like Glen is just using the work around to get a DVI PC output DVD player to match video black (16) and white (235) levels, but you're still crushing and clipping.

Not the pluge pattern the all black moving bars pattern. Works good for me. I don't trust the tuning I got with the comcast HD patterns. Hope the Accupel gets me a better picture.

...But the accupel can't help you there since it has no HD RF out that you can feed into a STB.

Oh to have $14K for a Sencore or the like;)!!!

Dave beat me to it. What he said :).

Cheers, Scott

Not the pluge pattern the all black moving bars pattern. Works good for me. I don't trust the tuning I got with the comcast HD patterns. Hope the Accupel gets me a better picture.

It probably will, if you plan on watching only the Accupel. But the truth is, you actually watch your Comcrap box, so the test patterns output from that will be a more "accurate" representation of the source.

Oh to have $14K for a Sencore or the like;)!!!
I don't think it THAT high, is it? I think Mr. Sencore (Jeff) priced it just over the Accupel. It has it's quirks I'm told. But I played with one (again) at CEDIA. It woudl be nice to have that RF out. They have a new one that outputs HD test video, with moving ballons in a landscape scene. Very nice. Maybe for xmas. That or a ISCO III.

BTW, get the new Sony HD DVR box for digital cable. Lots of free channels that you would normally pay for in packages with Comcrap.

I don't think it THAT high, is it? I think Mr. Sencore (Jeff) priced it just over the Accupel. It has it's quirks I'm told. But I played with one (again) at CEDIA. It woudl be nice to have that RF out. They have a new one that outputs HD test video, with moving ballons in a landscape scene. Very nice. Maybe for xmas. That or a ISCO III.

I meant their calibration "suite" that includes pattern generators, colorimeter, RF, etc.

You will unless you are going to stop calibrating your sources. The signal generator will allow you to tune the projector to a "perfect" DVI or Component input. Few DVD players have perfect output, and you will need to do them, too. And you'll have to use calibration dics to do it. You will try to dial them in as close as possible to a perfect signal. Same goes for HD devices. But the accupel can't help you there since it has no HD RF out that you can feed into a STB.

Yeah I know about the souces but I'm not getting all the sources with the mail in tunup program. We could get anal about it but even without the source, the cable etc. Grayscaling a PJ that's far off from reference will always be way better than it was.

I totally agree. Didn't realize this was for doing basic cals on other machines sent to you. The Accupel is a good starting point and reference for that:)!!!

Yeah I know about the souces but I'm not getting all the sources with the mail in tunup program. We could get anal about it but even without the source, the cable etc. Grayscaling a PJ that's far off from reference will always be way better than it was.Well, I wouldn't call it anal because a lot of sources are way off, but I agree a flattened and balanced grayscale is better than no tuning.

I think the it was the Secrets people who did a shoot-out calibrating between various DVD players and they found that there was approximately a 1% difference in output (IIRC) from various players, so generaly you can calibrate a pj to a different player and it should still be pretty good on the customers machine.

Have you guys had similar findings?

Gary.

Probably right Gary, it's too close to call. For a minute there I was about to cancel my Accupel order. :(

It went from being great to why would I need it, I should just use my comcast box and Sound & vision or DVE. I really don't like the small windows for doing grayscaling though. Does Avia Pro have large windows?

Sure it does, and so does the regular Avia. Just use the Full Field patterns. I think Avia's levels aren't completely correct though so Pro or DVE is the better option.

Gary, most DVDs are as you say, pretty close, but I have seen some with some totally wild outputs too. I didn't realize how bad until I hooked them up to some of our pro broadcast test gear and scoped them out and saw the funky things that were being done to the outputs:eek:!!! One example was a unit that when you selected 7.5 IRE as the black level output it raised the entire video range up 7.5% so what was supposed to be 100 IRE was now at 107.5 IRE and if you tried adjusting contrast down it just squished it and distorted the entire top end. It should have just adjusted the black level pedestal from 0 to 7.5 IRE and left the rest of the range untouched, meaning the 10 IRE step would still be at 10 IRE, only 2.5 IRE above black, the way it is in NTSC video.

Definitely keep the Accupel, as I said it is a great tool, it just shouldn't be the only one in your toolbox.

Probably right Gary, it's too close to call. For a minute there I was about to cancel my Accupel order. :(

It went from being great to why would I need it, I should just use my comcast box and Sound & vision or DVE. I really don't like the small windows for doing grayscaling though. Does Avia Pro have large windows?

Tom, et.al:

I've made a calibration disc for myself that has animated below black and above white bars, along with the other stuff. I (of course) think they are better than DVE or Avia (both pro) I have tested my patterns them using bitmap captures and comparing them to the pro reference discs and mine are spot on. I now see where Avia is off.

I can't let it go "into the wild" yet becuase it has one commercial pattern on it from one of my owned discs. It's a reverse gray ramp pattern. I am making one and as soon as I get it done, I'll let some folks have a copy.

My window patterns are similar to the other's sizes though. What size do you think you'd like to have Tom? Mine are labeled too. (text is same color as pattern so as not to hose measurments).

It has a simple menu, all patterns repeat until told to move on. Has the basics. All in one place (I'm tired of switching around). It does not have Y/C delay, I might not be able to make that one, since I'm not sure how it's done, nor do I want to know I think :).

If for nothing else, it's black and white moving bars (separate patterns) are nice, and spot on as compared to the reference discs. You woudln't believe what a pain it was to get from bmp to DVD without getting the colors wrong. Or maybe you would, Avia did.

Cheers

Edit: cause I'm a sorry typist :)

Dang, you are ate up Scott:D!!!

Y/C delay should be simple. Just start with the primary colors lining up with the grey luminance rectangular boxes at the center which would be zero delay. Then just slightly adjust each primary color by the same amount and a calculated distance from the zero point on a percentage basis.

Of course you MUST make sure that your reference that you use to make the pattern has no inherent delay in it. I guess that's the trick, huh?

I didn't realize how bad until I hooked them up to some of our pro broadcast test gear and scoped them out and saw the funky things that were being done to the outputs:eek:!!! One example was a unit that when you selected 7.5 IRE as the black level output it raised the entire video range up 7.5% so what was supposed to be 100 IRE was now at 107.5 IRE ...

It should have just adjusted the black level pedestal from 0 to 7.5 IRE and left the rest of the range untouched, meaning the 10 IRE step would still be at 10 IRE, only 2.5 IRE above black, the way it is in NTSC video.

Definitely keep the Accupel, as I said it is a great tool, it just shouldn't be the only one in your toolbox.
The example you gave above - black at 7.5 IRE and the 100% white reference at 107.5 IRE, is exactly what the RCA DTC-100 (the first DirectTV/ATSC receiver that was available for over a year before it had any competition) did. So the AccuPel HDG-3000 (and the previous HDG-2000) both have a special DTC-100 mode (analog signals only since the DTC-100 was analog only) that produces those signal levels to adjust the grayscale tracking and dynamic range of a projector for that product. (Thanks RCA for extra work it took to put that feature in the AccuPel generators!)

In video systems that have 7.5 IRE setup (i.e. black is at 7.5 IRE) the video range from black to the 100% white reference is linearly reduced to fit the 7.5 to 100 IRE range, rather than 0 to 100 IRE. So a digital signal from a DVD that is at 10% above black will be output as 10 IRE when there is no setup, but it will be output as 7.5 + 92.5 x 10% = 16.75 IRE when there is 7.5 IRE setup. So if you want to have a series of equal steps between black and white (such as a 10-step grayscale pattern) , both with and without setup, then you have different levels (in IRE units) for each step (except 100% white) when you have 7.5 IRE setup or no setup.

The AccuPel generator has BOTH 7.5 IRE setup (black at 7.5 IRE) and no setup (black at 0 IRE) for each of its video formats. The reason we include the option to have 7.5 IRE setup for 720p or 1080i is because some consumer upconverters do not remove the 7.5 IRE from NTSC signals (480i for instance) and therefore incorrectly include 7.5 IRE setup in their upconverted output signals (i.e. 720p for instance).

And thanks for the kind words about our generator!

Greg Rogers
AccuPel
Widescreen Review

I just bought my H79 from Dave Harper. I got a great deal and this thing is awesome. I had a Barco 1208 that had a good picture but very dim compared to this. (for my size of screen) I will say the Barco had awesome blacks but the trade off of this little unit is so worth it. It is so crisp and punchy. Not to mention it looks like a toaster compared to the HUGE Barco. HD is much better than the Barco (with my setup) My wife loves the H79 and she didn't care to sit under the three eyed monsterover 100 lbs. Setup was a snap compared to the 30 hours messing with the CRT. No more convergence drift or astig / focus problems. 114" wide screen no problem...I love it.

Dave,

I cant wait for you to ISF this thing for me. I still need more hours though.


John

John,

I am looking forward to it also:) I am glad I could be of service to you!

Greg,

You earned all the accolades you get, both with AccuPel and WSR. That DTC-100 mode was a great idea. I set up MANY of them in my time:rolleyes:

It was cine4home.de that did the DVD does not impact greyscale study. The reason is that the color difference signal is a +/- voltage. In order for it to impact greyscale the DVD ground would have to be off from your projector - thus adding color when there should be no color. If your grounds in your system are off from each other - you have worse problems than greyscale.

DVD players are screwed up sources though - because of the basic video adjustments that most AVSers should be OK at. It does not even require a test pattern DVD if you get by on the THX ones. And if they want to fix their greyscale on a mail-in calibration - and know they are hopeless on the DVD fixup too - send it in! What most people do not realize is most DVD players have the basic adjustments hidden away - you cannot just adjust the display.

It was cine4home.de that did the DVD does not impact greyscale study. The reason is that the color difference signal is a +/- voltage. In order for it to impact greyscale the DVD ground would have to be off from your projector - thus adding color when there should be no color. If your grounds in your system are off from each other - you have worse problems than greyscale.

DVD players are screwed up sources though - because of the basic video adjustments that most AVSers should be OK at. It does not even require a test pattern DVD if you get by on the THX ones. And if they want to fix their greyscale on a mail-in calibration - and know they are hopeless on the DVD fixup too - send it in! What most people do not realize is most DVD players have the basic adjustments hidden away - you cannot just adjust the display.

Kras,

Could you explain this a little more clearly please. I know you know you stuff, but I didn't quite get this.

Thanks,
Scott

It was cine4home.de that did the DVD does not impact greyscale study. The reason is that the color difference signal is a +/- voltage. In order for it to impact greyscale the DVD ground would have to be off from your projector - thus adding color when there should be no color. If your grounds in your system are off from each other - you have worse problems than greyscale.

DVD players are screwed up sources though - because of the basic video adjustments that most AVSers should be OK at. It does not even require a test pattern DVD if you get by on the THX ones. And if they want to fix their greyscale on a mail-in calibration - and know they are hopeless on the DVD fixup too - send it in! What most people do not realize is most DVD players have the basic adjustments hidden away - you cannot just adjust the display.

Are ya fer it, or agin it? :D:D

Hi, I just received the H78DC3, setup it, it has been running for an hour or so. Very nice clear sharp picture. I tried the Panasonic AE700 and the Sony HS50, what a difference. BUt ... I see lot of pixalization on fast moving scenes? I though this only existed on LCD type displays.
Can any body provide any input?

Thanks

Optoma's Dark Chip3's are about as good as it gets with panning artifacts, unless maybe they left out some of those hand picked parts. Just kidding
enjoy

"Kras quote
What most people do not realize is most DVD players have the basic adjustments hidden away - you cannot just adjust the display."

This is true you don't know how many friends forgot or didn't know how to turn on the digital stream. The Pany S97 is a little tricky with it's added PC vs video mode in a buried menu.

Optoma's Dark Chip3's are about as good as it gets with panning artifacts, unless maybe they left out some of those hand picked parts. Just kidding
enjoy

"Kras quote
What most people do not realize is most DVD players have the basic adjustments hidden away - you cannot just adjust the display."

This is true you don't know how many friends forgot or didn't know how to turn on the digital stream. The Pany S97 is a little tricky with it's added PC vs video mode in a buried menu.

Does this mean the Panasonic has a selectable PC or VIdeo DVI mode?

Not sure where I got everyone confused.

A greyscale over YPbPr should be Y00 as far as the signal goes. You should be able to pull the PbPr wires and not have greyscale change - otherwise your ground reference is screwy in your system - that is maybe a bit of red, blue, cyan or yellow is getting added by the color diff wires because they are not zeroed out like they should be. Am I out to lunch here? I am not saying it is not possible - I am saying it is not something to worry about.

I don't think a DVD player is necessary for a greyscale calibration - but you absolutely have to have it in there for a basic AVIA setup.

But then I have been a recent AccuPel convert - and would rather use it for advanced calibration - maybe it warps how I think about doing it now!

Not sure where I got everyone confused.

A greyscale over YPbPr should be Y00 as far as the signal goes. You should be able to pull the PbPr wires and not have greyscale change - otherwise your ground reference is screwy in your system - that is maybe a bit of red, blue, cyan or yellow is getting added by the color diff wires because they are not zeroed out like they should be. Am I out to lunch here? I am not saying it is not possible - I am saying it is not something to worry about....

...But then I have been a recent AccuPel convert - and would rather use it for advanced calibration - maybe it warps how I think about doing it now!


I agree Kras, we used to w/ TAW and I still do, remove the Pb & Pr signals to do greyscale calibrations. It is a good technique to ensure all is well with your DVD and it's component outs. Good tip.

I don't think a DVD player is necessary for a greyscale calibration - but you absolutely have to have it in there for a basic AVIA setup.

Remember, you are calibrating a system, not just the display. A DVD player should be required to do a proper greyscale on the system. In the end, you won't be watching the AccuPel after all. What I would do is greyscale the display w/ the accupel so it is dead nuts with a known reference source, then bring the DVD into the equation and tweak as needed based on that particular system.

I was in the broadcast realm up until about three weeks ago and this is how all setups and calibrations are done with every piece in the chain of the broadcast signal. It is always hammered home that you MUST treat it as a complete system and the broadcast was only as good as the weakest link in the chain. Even the $50K Pro Sony VTRs had to be tweaked sometimes.

Does this mean the Panasonic has a selectable PC or VIdeo DVI mode?

Yes, Enchanced choice is PC level, Normal is Video.

Yes, Enchanced choice is PC level, Normal is Video.

Have we (and by "we" I mean those of you in this thread who know a lot more than I do) come to any concensus about the ability of the Oppo to deliver DVI-Video, or is it DVI-PC only? I'm still confused on this issue as it relates to the Oppo. Dave Harper above says that neither of the Avia bars is below black on the pluge test, but I can't get the Oppo to display the darker bar without either setting the Lumagen to PC levels, or cranking the brightness up to +5.

According to the recent DVD shootout, the Oppo rated very highly, in its ability to pass WTW and BTB. I thought this was through its DVI output as well. If not, then it might be better for me to get the Panasonic. The Oppo would make a nice Christmas present in a couple of months.

Have we (and by "we" I mean those of you in this thread who know a lot more than I do) come to any concensus about the ability of the Oppo to deliver DVI-Video, or is it DVI-PC only? I'm still confused on this issue as it relates to the Oppo. Dave Harper above says that neither of the Avia bars is below black on the pluge test, but I can't get the Oppo to display the darker bar without either setting the Lumagen to PC levels, or cranking the brightness up to +5.

According to the recent DVD shootout, the Oppo rated very highly, in its ability to pass WTW and BTB. I thought this was through its DVI output as well. If not, then it might be better for me to get the Panasonic. The Oppo would make a nice Christmas present in a couple of months.

I dont' have an Oppo, but..

1) Dave is correct. Avia definately *does not* have bars in any test pattern that include "Blacker than Black" information. DVE and my personal test disc do. If you are having trouble seeing all the bars in Avia, you haven't even gotten to BTB levels yet. You should *definately* be able to adjust to see all the bars on Avia, no matter the digital output signal level. I can tell you the actual digital levels of the Avia bars if you want them. They are both above 16 (video level black).

2) *If* the Oppo will pass BTB and WTW information as they told you, then when it is doing it, its output signal must be at video levels, by definition. PC levels clip off BTB and WTW information.

Whether or not it will do it on DVI output is something for the Oppo thread. Since there seems to be some doubt here, I expect there is a guru there somewhere who can say definatively. Maybe Oppo themselves? It may very well be limited to a particular Firmware and setup. There may be a Oppo guru here, but I'd at least ask there if I were you, just to be sure you ping one of the gurus there who may not be watching a H7x thread. One of them may know the trick to make it output video levels over DVI. And thus BTB and WTW over DVI.

Hope that helps,
Scott

1) Dave is correct. Avia definately *does not* have bars in any test pattern that include "Blacker than Black" information. DVE and my personal test disc do. If you are having trouble seeing all the bars in Avia, you haven't even gotten to BTB levels yet. You should *definately* be able to adjust to see all the bars on Avia, no matter the digital output signal level. I can tell you the actual digital levels of the Avia bars if you want them. They are both above 16 (video level black).

This is correct.

2) *If* the Oppo will pass BTB and WTW information as they told you, then when it is doing it, its output signal must be at video levels, by definition. PC levels clip off BTB and WTW information.

Tread carefully here. Sources can do strange things, they can clip parts of things, clip whites but not blacks, blacks but not whites, etc etc. The best way to really know what is going on is to use full-range patterns from Avia PRO or DVE or DVE PRO. The PLUGE pattern is for setting black level, but it is not designed to reveal whether the system is clipping values. To image a below-black PLUGE bar on DVE all you need is *some* data below 16 that is not clipped. However, clipping still may be occurring, which is why a full range ramps test on DVE or Avie PRO is recommended to really know what is going on with the player.

Remember that when a source attempts to align video levels to PC levels, it can choose to do this any number of ways. Usually, 16 and 235 are re-mapped to 0 and 255, respectively, but another way that you can encounter is to have the video range lowered but not expanded. This leaves whites quite a bit dimmer than graphics levels, but does not introduce banding. Of course, all bets are off when it comes to many consumer products, which is why it's best to ascertain exactly what is going on. The step-by-step pattern in Avia PRO is perfect for this ( I forget exactly what the title for this is called). It can test the full range 1-254, and the illegal 0-255 by individual chip steps.

This is correct.



Tread carefully here. Sources can do strange things, they can clip parts of things, clip whites but not blacks, blacks but not whites, etc etc. The best way to really know what is going on is to use full-range patterns from Avia PRO or DVE or DVE PRO. The PLUGE pattern is for setting black level, but it is not designed to reveal whether the system is clipping values. To image a below-black PLUGE bar on DVE all you need is *some* data below 16 that is not clipped. However, clipping still may be occurring, which is why a full range ramps test on DVE or Avie PRO is recommended to really know what is going on with the player.

Remember that when a source attempts to align video levels to PC levels, it can choose to do this any number of ways. Usually, 16 and 235 are re-mapped to 0 and 255, respectively, but another way that you can encounter is to have the video range lowered but not expanded. This leaves whites quite a bit dimmer than graphics levels, but does not introduce banding. Of course, all bets are off when it comes to many consumer products, which is why it's best to ascertain exactly what is going on. The step-by-step pattern in Avia PRO is perfect for this ( I forget exactly what the title for this is called). It can test the full range 1-254, and the illegal 0-255 by individual chip steps.

Thanks, Chris. I don't have Avia PRO. Is there anyone here who is willing to do the test? I checked an Oppo thread, and it definitely states that at 720p upconversion, the Oppo passes WTW and BTB, so it would seem to indicate that it does output a DVI-Video level signal. However, out of the box it won't even display the second black bar in the regular Avia pluge pattern. Raising the Oppo's brightness does allow both bars to become visible, which begs the question, "What exactly were the Oppo manufacturers thinking when they shipped it that way?"

I know at this point this may seem far off topic, and more suited for the Oppo thread. Maybe it should be taken there, but originally it was an issue for me because I believed I had to set the Lumagen (feeding an H79) to DVI-PC levels to accomodate the Oppo signal. Now, just about a week before having my H79 calibrated, I'm still not sure what the Oppo designers have done with this player.

Joe: you can use the ramps in DVE, it's just a little bit harder to see slight clipping at the extremes compared to the patterns I mentioned on Avia PRO. However, you'd likely have to suffer some more serious clipping of the video range approaching 16 before it started to become a visible problem. So you could check just fine with the ramps on DVE. The full ramps/steps (sorry, I always forget the exact chapter) is excellent, as well as the black portion of the shallow ramps pattern. the shallow ramps cross at reference black, and white and should extend all the way to the edges of the screen without plateus. (also be careful about ANSI washout, as this can make the black parts really hard to see, so raise your black level a whole lot at your display temporarily for this testing of your video chain. A correctly calibrated video chain shouldn't really show anything(or much of anything) below black. So you'll want to bring up your black level, and down your white level, to make sure you're not clipping anything at the display so you are sure that you are seeing everything that the source is sending.)

and just remember to use DVE or Avia PRO, because as was mentioned above all the pattern elements in regular Avia are 16-235, and so they won't reveal clipping outside the nominal reference bounds.

Hope that helps!

Joe:

Do you have a DVD burner? My calibration disc is ready enough for you to use it to to check the BTB/WTW if you like. But you'll have to be able to burn a DVD.

Scott

Joe:

Do you have a DVD burner? My calibration disc is ready enough for you to use it to to check the BTB/WTW if you like. But you'll have to be able to burn a DVD.

Scott

Yes, I have a burner. Thanks for offering to let me try it out. Very generous of you.

I'll put it somewhere you can DL it this evening. It's only about 3Mb. I'll PM you a link.

S

So i should make sure my S97 is set to output video level over HDMI and not PC levels then?

Yes, if you are hooking it up to the H79's DVI port. That port (at least in RGB mode) defaults to video levels so you want to match them.

Thx for that, so say if i had the 59avi would i set that to output RGB or the other one (ybpr or whatever it is, 4:4:2/4 component) via HDMI to the H79s DVI port

Even the $50K Pro Sony VTRs had to be tweaked sometimes.
You might need to take that VTR in for repair :)

I have yet to see "ONE" Sony VTR that was "NOT" spot on SMPTE standard! Maybe if Sony had one of those Accupel "reference generators" they could have got a handle on the problem ;)

thomas

Thx for that, so say if i had the 59avi would i set that to output RGB or the other one (ybpr or whatever it is, 4:4:2/4 component) via HDMI to the H79s DVI portI dont' have a 59avi and try not to say anyting I'm not very sure about. But that sounds right. RGB is what I sent from my denon 3910 and is what I now send from my scaler. I *belive* it was RGB that Greg Rogers found only went to PC levels when doing a second syne (resync) on DVI in.

re: Calibraton disc requests:

Sorry for the OT post...

Seems I opened a can of worms :) Whew! I'm flooded with PM's for the calibration disc. Please hold off on PM requests for it. I was offering it to Joe Specifically since he was a AV-RS232 customer of mine in a bind.

I will make it available publically sometime this week, next at the latest. I have one submenu to touchup and one extra pattern to create and add. It is a 3Mb .iso file. You will have to have a DVD burner to make your own. I'll might make a mailing available for those who don't for a small charge to cover expenses.

I will post a quick snipet here when it's ready (since I let the cat out here), but I will start a thread in the right place when I have it ready.

I should have PM'd Joe in the first place, sorry about that...

Scott

As one of those who PM'd you I appreciate your post, Scott, and your generosity.

Dan

You might need to take that VTR in for repair :)

I have yet to see "ONE" Sony VTR that was "NOT" spot on SMPTE standard! Maybe if Sony had one of those Accupel "reference generators" they could have got a handle on the problem ;)

thomas

Touche'... :p!!! I was really just trying to make a point I guess.

scott, what patterns are on that?

scott, what patterns are on that?
Fundamental stuff. And a couple I think are "goodies". I'd be gratefull if you'd take a look at it. I'll PM you the link as soon as I have it ready if you are willing.

I made it specifically for a DLP (or possibly other digital) device. It has no pluge pattern for blooming for CRT's, no convergence patterns, but those could be added. It is authored in 16x9 mode. I do not have a Y/C delay pattern, that about the only one I use that's not here. I may take the time to add that one later, but due to it's nature, I'm not comfortable releasing that one as "correct" without some testing.

From memory it has:

* Stepped and smooth (deep ramp?) Gray scale, both a 5 IRE step (including BTB and WTW) and a full 0-255 digital 1 point ramp. Both ramps have markers for BTB abd WTW

* Moving bar patterns for black. FUll black screen with 4 bars. Each bar's level is marked/labelled (in a dark gray so as not to raise APL). Screen center includes a brighter (dark gray) strpe so you can see where teh bars are supposed to be in case they are not visible.

* A pattern with 50/50 white/black backgrounds each showing respective bars including BTB and WTW, labelled.

* Ditto moving bars for white and above white.

* Horizontal color bars similar to those on DVE. Mine are labeled for color and hue since I always forget which pairs to watch. I will probably make an animated version of this pattern as well, with moving or blinking bars.

* 0 to 100 IRE gray window patterns in 10 IRE steps. I'll probably expand to 5 IRE steps.

* All 6 primary and secondary color window patterns at 75% levels. Most of the color stuff was done at 75% in order to help cut out influences of colros being clipped at 100IRE. I may add some 100% (100IRE) patterns or change to 100% depending on input I get.

* an overscan/alignment patterns for adjusting overscan, pixel cropping, and centering output. Includes letterbox guides.

* A red ramp which I'm told will be usefull for finding red limit on DLP. Haven't used it yet, it's identical to gray ramps only I cut the B and G channels.

* Ansi contrast pattern (4x4?) checkerboard

* Ansi brightness pattern (with markers of where to measure)

I probably missed something, but that's most of it. All individual patterns stay (loop) until you tell it to move (skip) to next. All colors and levels have been verified against known good dvd sources (i.e. not Avia). All patterns made from scratch using digital levels. Very easy menu navigation. Professionally autored and encoded.

Scott

sure thing scott!

I made a test disk with ramped RGB so that I could visually test for colour crush. I think the increments were in 3s (i.e. .... R 229, 232, 235). Having them in 2 or less increments made it hard to see the bars or if crusshing was ocurring. Maybe you'd want to add that in if you think others might find it usefull?

Gary.

Joe: you can use the ramps in DVE, it's just a little bit harder to see slight clipping at the extremes compared to the patterns I mentioned on Avia PRO. However, you'd likely have to suffer some more serious clipping of the video range approaching 16 before it started to become a visible problem. So you could check just fine with the ramps on DVE. The full ramps/steps (sorry, I always forget the exact chapter) is excellent, as well as the black portion of the shallow ramps pattern. the shallow ramps cross at reference black, and white and should extend all the way to the edges of the screen without plateus. (also be careful about ANSI washout, as this can make the black parts really hard to see, so raise your black level a whole lot at your display temporarily for this testing of your video chain. A correctly calibrated video chain shouldn't really show anything(or much of anything) below black. So you'll want to bring up your black level, and down your white level, to make sure you're not clipping anything at the display so you are sure that you are seeing everything that the source is sending.)

and just remember to use DVE or Avia PRO, because as was mentioned above all the pattern elements in regular Avia are 16-235, and so they won't reveal clipping outside the nominal reference bounds.

Hope that helps!

I got hold of DVE. All the ramps that I could find showed fully visible steps (if the Oppo brightness menu was set at +5 - if not, the last two steps were indistinguishable), but I'm not sure I found the ramps you're talking about. I never tried to navigate DVE before, just Avia - that was an adventure. Contrast on the H79 was set very low and brightness very high. Thanks for the tips.

Anyway, I look forward to Scott's patterns to confirm BTB and WTW.

Joe: The patterns I mean are: T 12 Chp 14 and T 12 Ch 15. Also, T 12 Chps 2-13 have quite a few patterns with PLUGE for setting black level. These BTB PLUGE bars may clip. Chps 14 and 15 show the whole range, and also white, so I find them more useful in assessing the system, and where, if at all, there is clipping.

Joe: The patterns I mean are: T 12 Chp 14 and T 12 Ch 15. Also, T 12 Chps 2-13 have quite a few patterns with PLUGE for setting black level. These BTB PLUGE bars may clip. Chps 14 and 15 show the whole range, and also white, so I find them more useful in assessing the system, and where, if at all, there is clipping.

Thanks, Chris. I had the right screens, then. T 12, Chpt 14 displays the entire range of ramp patterns all the way to the edge of the screen on the Optoma, in discrete increments from white to black (and black to white on the bottom). This is with the Oppo's brightness set to +5 and all other DVD player settings set to default. My Optoma brightness was set to +9 and the contrast to -2. These settings were really far off to make sure the Optoma wasn't doing the clipping, if there was any.

I still don't understand why the manufacturer would set the DVD player this way, unless it represents what they feel is likely to be a "typical" setup for a lot of buyers.

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone here on this issue. It's gone a long way to help clarify for me the issue of DVI-Video vs. DVI-PC levels. (When I asked a question about DVI-PC vs DVI-Video on another thread, they ignored me until I asked the 4th time, then responded as though I were a two-headed monkey for even asking the question.) It looks as though, with this test, that I can feel relatively secure setting the Lumagen to DVI-Video levels for the Optoma calibration. Right?

You should be okay as long as you're maintaining things through the chain. Remember that on the DVE ramps, reference black and white (16, and 235 respectively) are marked by the dots.

I am very excited! I will have my h 79 on Wednsday, woo-hoo!!! Anyway, I will be using a 120.5" Siverstar from Vutec. I will be also using an Onkyo SP1000, TX 1000 and HDTIVO. And I forgot to mention a JVC HM5 U with over 80 DTHEATER titles. I am upgrading from a newer benq pj. Will I be blown away? My wife is one of those people who sees rainbows. She was seeing them a lot less on the benq so I am hoping with this 8 segment color wheel they will be neutralized even more. I read this entire thread plus the other one (happy owners). Guitarman, I want to thank you for your help in deciding on this PJ! And finaly, I read that someone needed the Gefen HDMI boost due to sparklies. I ordered one since I was seeing the sparklies with my 8 meter HDMI bettercable. Hopefuly this will do the trick...

joerod, you will LOVE the H79/Silverstar combo. Lemme know if you got any DVHS titles you want to get rid of.

Have fun!! :D

Joe: The patterns I mean are: T 12 Chp 14 and T 12 Ch 15. Also, T 12 Chps 2-13 have quite a few patterns with PLUGE for setting black level. These BTB PLUGE bars may clip. Chps 14 and 15 show the whole range, and also white, so I find them more useful in assessing the system, and where, if at all, there is clipping.

OK, maybe I am a two-headed monkey. I went back to check everything again, just to be sure my chain had all its links unkinked. Everything I said above was accurate, except I couldn't get the DVE pattern to display WTW (using the dots as a reference point) without reducing the Oppo's contrast setting to -2.

So, I tested a little further. I set the Lumagen DVI level to PC and the Oppo brightness and contrast back to 0. Just as a point of clariication, the Lumagen accepts either DVI-Video or DVI-PC and outputs as DVI-Video or DVI-PC. The Optoma accepts DVI-Video or DVI-PC. In all these tests, the Optoma is set up to receive DVI-Video and the Lumagen processor is set up to output DVI-Video. That remains consistent in all this.

So, here's the arrangement that is so confusing:

1. Oppo brightness and contrast at their factory defaults of 0.
2. Optoma set to receive DVI-Video.
3. Lumagen video processor set to output DVI-Video to the Optoma.
4. Lumagen video processor set to receive DVI-PC from the Oppo DVD player.

With these settings, the DVE ramp patterns are visible from BTB to WTW (title 12, chpt 14). Unless I misread everything above, a device set up to receive a DVI-PC signal is going to clip BTB and WTW. If the Lumagen is expecting DVI-PC (and that really means something) then how can I see BTB and WTW bars (clearly outside the dots that mark those BTB and WTW transitions on the bars)?

Is this a matter, Chris, of all bets being off, and the manufacturers make up their own rules as they go? Or am I just too thick to see how this all works?

This test tends to send me in the other direction and think the Oppo is best left at DVI-PC levels.

The Lumagen video processor, BTW, defaults to DVI-PC level input and DVI-PC level output, and it gives this piece of advice: "If unsure, use the defaults." Even after a Lumagen "Restore," its DVI level defaults back to DVI-PC and has to be reset manually, even though all the other Lumagen settings are restored to their saved states.

Perhaps, at this point, the only serious recourse is to press the manufacturers to supply the relevant information. My experience with doing that in the past has been mixed, though.