The 5910 can be had at a discount...look around.

I got a reasonable discount from my local high end guy.

Hi All,

I just purchased a Sony Qualia 006 with 1080i inputs. I was about ready to purchase a DVD-5910 but then today I see the CES news about the DVD5910ci. Will this output 1080i as well as 1080P? If so, I'll purchase the 5910ci and if not I'll purchase the 5910 with 1080i upscaling.

Paul

For film content will sending 1080p to the ruby be any different to sending 1080i. ie is the scaling or workflow of the image processing different?

I am trying to find information about the Denon DVD 5910ci. Where did you find it Paul A? Can you provide a hyperlink? I take it that this is the one with the redesigned hardware and firmware update to enabl 1080 progressive output for $3800 USD? Any information would be helpful as I am learning more about my future purchase later this year. Thank you!



http://cnet.com.au/hometheatre/homecinemakits/0,39028683,40059423,00.htm

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/01/05/dvds_not_dead_yet_at_ces2006/

Paul

Hi All,

I just purchased a Sony Qualia 006 with 1080i inputs. I was about ready to purchase a DVD-5910 but then today I see the CES news about the DVD5910ci. Will this output 1080i as well as 1080P? If so, I'll purchase the 5910ci and if not I'll purchase the 5910 with 1080i upscaling.

Paul

I've read on this forum that the newer units will output 1080p as well as 1080i. The older units can also get hardware upgrades to output 1080p.

So, now that HD-DVD and SONY Blu-Ray source components have been announced, the question remains for current Denon DVD 5910 / 5910ci owners: is it still worth the investment? Another question: is anyone who owns this unit going to get either or BOTH a HD-DVD and SONY Blu-Ray machine too?

It is probably the best picture quality machine for DVD on the market, the new HD players may be backwards compatible, but I doubt they will have this kind of quality video for DVD, or anything even close to it for awhile. It depends on whether you plan on rebuying all the movies you own for BluRay or if you plan on keeping most of the DVDs for years to come. i think it was worth the investment, it really depends on what you feel comfortable spending, but that is the case with all mid to high-end gear.

I am not going to go out and buy one of the new machines until they stabilize and prove their worth. Until then I will use a Playstation 3 and buy some BluRay discs.

;) So, now that HD-DVD and SONY Blu-Ray source components have been announced, the question remains for current Denon DVD 5910 / 5910ci owners: is it still worth the investment? Another question: is anyone who owns this unit going to get either or BOTH a HD-DVD and SONY Blu-Ray machine too?

Since I have a collection of about 600 standard def DVD's I think that the advantage of Hi-Def formats will be limited to software availability and also the PROVEN quality of their performace with standard def discs. I was an early adopter of SACD/DVDA and have struggled to get software for them for years, I am in no hurry to jump into the middle of another format war.

Basically, I am very happy with the 5910's performace, see no reason to make the switch to HD DVD/Blue-ray until either a universal player is introduced, or a clear winner in the format war is decided. :eek:

Half

I was going to upgrade from my 3910 to the 5910 but now that I know players are coming in March I will hold off and purchase both a HD-DVD player and a Blu-Ray player which sould come in under the total cost of the 5910. And when Denon release the DVD-5920 Universal Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD player with Realta HQV I will upgrade again then :)

I was going to upgrade from my 3910 to the 5910 but now that I know players are coming in March I will hold off and purchase both a HD-DVD player and a Blu-Ray player which sould come in under the total cost of the 5910. And when Denon release the DVD-5920 Universal Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD player with Realta HQV I will upgrade again then :)

IF Denon releases a "5920" with HQV and "Universal HD Playback" I will be right next to you in line spizz, but until then, I will stick with what I have.

Half

And when Denon release the DVD-5920 Universal Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD player with Realta HQV I will upgrade again then :)

Ditto. Does anyone with long term Denon experience have any idea when a unit like this could potentially hit the market.

Not really, but some dealers will give you some trade-in...though you may have to beg....:D

I plan on keeping mine for a long time, and when I trade up my DLP for a larger one with 1080P, I'll do the upgrade.

There's just nothing out there that comes close for an all-in-one, Audio and Video player....I love it.

Ditto. Does anyone with long term Denon experience have any idea when a unit like this could potentially hit the market.

Earliest would be September CEDIA where they also announce their new crop of Flagship Receivers etc.

Also, you should be going straight HDMI the entire time from the 5910 to the Ruby. That way you can get the full 10 bit video without any conversions. Set the player to HDMI and YCbCr out at 1080P, or 1080i for now until you get the update. I don't recommend using DVI with the Ruby.

OK, you're repeating a couple of myths here, let me address those.

First off, HDMi and DVi cabling is the same. It doesn't matter whether the cable is "straight HDMI" or HDMi-DVI or HDMI-DVI-HDMI or whatever. If a unit has both DVI and HDMI jacks, it might treat the jacks differently (i.e. it may support only RGB on the DVI jack, or not pass audio over the DVI jack), but the physical cabling is irrelevant.

Secondly, the "10 bit" processing in the 5910 has nothing to do with outputs, it's all internal. It's analogous to "oversampling" on audio CD players. It uses 10-bit registers to perform its internal video processing which results in greater precision. Your'e confusing internal processing registers with outputs. HDMI does not provide "10 bit video without any conversions". HDMI and DVI are both limited to a maximum of 24 bits of color per pixel. The transmission formats are:

DVI:
RGB 8x8x8 = 24 bit

HDMI
RGB 8x8x8 = 24 bit
YCbCr 8x8x8 = 24 bit
YCbCr 10x7x7 = 24 bit

It's extremely unlikely that you would see an improvement in display quality using the optional YCbCr 10x7x7 for numerous reasons (even assuming your display supported it).

KC

This is my strategy as well, but I think both you and I can agree that day will be several years into the future. I really wanted a super universal high resolution and high definition player, but I do not even know if that will ever happen.

I know this will sound crazy, but I am an audiophile only. Heck, I don't own a stereo system, just a top of the line headphone only system. I don't watch Hollywood films in the movie theaters and I don't watch DVD-Videos nor do I even watch TV. I want the Denon DVD 5910ci for its ultra high quality audio reproduction for all of the formats I have invested heavily in - Red Book CDs, HDCDs, SA-CDs, and DVD-Audios. I also want the convenience plus performance of a top of the line, state of the art, cutting edge, cost no object universal DVD player. I do not want to finance HD-DVD and SONY Blu-Ray's market success in the coming years.

I hope this will at least equal if not trounce my highly modified ModWright LLC Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi which I believe it will do so (certainly for the video end). I doubt I will ever watch a film or movie on it.

As someone who owns a 5910 and a tube CD setup (anthem CD player or computer into a nice tube DAC), I would be shocked if you liked the sound of a stock 5910 over the sound of your Modwright player. I would only expect the 5910 to better your moded 59AVI if you also mod the 5910 to have a better audio analog stage (tubes if thats your fancy). I only use my 5910 for video and for SACDs. I much prefer my tube setup for redbook CDs. I have been thinking about modding the 5910 to improve audio quality, but I haven't pulled the trigger. If you are not interested in video, you may find the 3910 to be awfully close to the 5910.

Secondly, the "10 bit" processing in the 5910 has nothing to do with outputs, it's all internal. It's analogous to "oversampling" on audio CD players. It uses 10-bit registers to perform its internal video processing which results in greater precision. Your'e confusing internal processing registers with outputs. HDMI does not provide "10 bit video without any conversions". HDMI and DVI are both limited to a maximum of 24 bits of color per pixel. The transmission formats are:

DVI:
RGB 8x8x8 = 24 bit

HDMI
RGB 8x8x8 = 24 bit
YCbCr 8x8x8 = 24 bit
YCbCr 10x7x7 = 24 bit
This post is so full of misinformation I don't know where to begin. At a minimum, I suggest you do a little research on "4:2:2". :rolleyes:

- Dale Adams

This post is so full of misinformation I don't know where to begin. At a minimum, I suggest you do a little research on "4:2:2". :rolleyes:

- Dale AdamsAnd perhaps take a gander at the HDMI spec. It explains - with pictures - quite well how the various bit depths of YCbCr 4:2:2 are transmitted.

larry

And perhaps take a gander at the HDMI spec. It explains - with pictures - quite well how the various bit depths of YCbCr 4:2:2 are transmitted.


This HDMI spec?

http://www.hossenfeffer.com/images/24bpp.gif

I did space on the bit format though, it's actually worse:

HDMI
RGB 8x8x8 = 24 bit
YCbCr 8x8x8 = 24 bit
YCbCr 12(10)x6x6 = 24 bit

Of the 12 "Y" bits only 10 are typically used and it's zero padded to 12 bits. That's why I remembered it as being 10 bits.

KC

This HDMI spec?

http://www.hossenfeffer.com/images/24bpp.gif

I did space on the bit format though, it's actually worse:

HDMI
RGB 8x8x8 = 24 bit
YCbCr 8x8x8 = 24 bit
YCbCr 12(10)x6x6 = 24 bit

Of the 12 "Y" bits only 10 are typically used and it's zero padded to 12 bits. That's why I remembered it as being 10 bits.
You might try reading the entire spec and seeing how the YCbCr bits are actually encoded in the data stream instead of fixating on one or two statements and then making a lot of groundless assumptions. :rolleyes:

10-bit and 12-bit YCbCr are sent as 4:2:2. Only 8-bit YCbCr is 4:4:4. If you don't understand what 4:2:2 means, I suggest you do a little research before posting more drivel like this. Here's a link I turned up by doing a simple web search on "4:2:2" and looking only at the first page of results: http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=YCbCrsampling I'm sure that's not the best explanation, but it's one I turned up with virtually no work at all and should give you some idea of why 4:2:2 sampling means that 12-bit YCbCr on HDMI doesn't mean that chroma resolution is only 6 bits.

- Dale Adams

You might try reading the entire spec and seeing how the YCbCr bits are actually encoded in the data stream instead of fixating on one or two statements and then making a lot of groundless assumptions. :rolleyes:

Maybe you should try to be factual instead of ad hominem.

I'm sure that's not the best explanation but it's one I turned up with virtually no work at all and should give you some idea of why 4:2:2 sampling means that 12-bit YCbCr on HDMI doesn't mean that chroma resolution is only 6 bits.

http://www.hossenfeffer.com/images/6bpp.gif

"12 bits for the C components" plural, that's 6 bits per component.

I think I see where you're getting this misconception, though. You're getting hung up on definitions of 4:2:2 that say that mode of decimation doesn't necessarily mean that the data is stored in those proportions. I'm saying that in the specific case of HDMI, it does in fact mean they are stored in those proportions because there are only 24 bits for the encode regardless of decimation format.

KC

I think I see where you're getting this misconception, though. You're getting hung up on definitions of 4:2:2 that say that mode of decimation doesn't necessarily mean that the data is stored in those proportions. I'm saying that in the specific case of HDMI, it does in fact mean they are stored in those proportions because there are only 24 bits for the encode regardless of decimation format.
I don't have misconceptions about any of this. You apparently do, however, as you still don't appear to understand the concept of subsampling or how 4:2:2 data is transmitted. Now you fall back to claiming that you only meant that the pixel data was stored in the proportions of 10/7/7 rather than your original claim that it wasn't' a true 10-bit resolution signal.

Let's look at your previous claims:

Secondly, the "10 bit" processing in the 5910 has nothing to do with outputs, it's all internal.
False. HDMI provides a true 4:2:2 YCbCr output with full 10-bit resolution. The output stage in the 5910 which feeds the HDMI transmitter provides it with a 10-bit 4:2:2 YCbCr signal. That format is preserved by the HDMI channel as long as it's the selected format (as opposed to, say, RGB).

It's analogous to "oversampling" on audio CD players. It uses 10-bit registers to perform its internal video processing which results in greater precision. Your'e confusing internal processing registers with outputs. HDMI does not provide "10 bit video without any conversions".
False. HDMI can actually provide full 12-bit resolution, let alone 10-bit. Although, granted, there probably aren't any sources out there yet that do this (i.e., 12-bit). That doesn't mean the channel isn't capable of it, though. As far as the internal processing goes, at least some of it is done with considerably greater than 10-bit accuracy, and is reduced to 10-bit resolution for the output.

HDMI and DVI are both limited to a maximum of 24 bits of color per pixel.
Well, that much is true - sort of. It would be more correct to say that 24 bits are provided per pixel clock. How those 24 bits/clock are allocated is a different issue.

The transmission formats are:

DVI:
RGB 8x8x8 = 24 bit

HDMI
RGB 8x8x8 = 24 bit
YCbCr 8x8x8 = 24 bit
YCbCr 10x7x7 = 24 bit

It's extremely unlikely that you would see an improvement in display quality using the optional YCbCr 10x7x7 for numerous reasons (even assuming your display supported it).
And here's your original claim that chroma only provided 7-bit resolution, not 10-bit. That's clearly false as Cb and Cr are both provided with 10-bit resolution. If a display can accept such an input signal and preserve the full 10-bit signal resolution, then with the right source material you very well could see a difference. That's been upheld by empirical evidence presented by a number of forum members.

- Dale Adams

KC,
Hint: Look at the "pic" in the spec that shows which bits of YCbCr 4:2:2 are sent in 2 pixel clocks. There are 2 Y's for every 1 Cb and 1 Cr in 4:2:2, so in 2 pixel clocks you get all the data that was encoded for those two pixels, i.e 48bits worth.

larry

Look, 4:2:2 YCbCr over HDMI isn't really all that complicated. Every 2 pixel clocks transfers 2 YCbCr pixels. Luma is full bandwidth and chroma is horizontally subsampled by 1/2 (i.e., the sampling is 4:2:2) so there are 2 luma samples, 1 Cb sample, and 1 Cr sample transferred in those 2 clocks. The first clock transfers the first luma sample and the (half-bandwidth) Cb sample, while the second clock transfers the second luma sample and the (half-bandwidth) Cr sample.

All of these can be up to 12 bits per sample. That's 12 bits for each of the 2 luma samples, and 12 bits for each of the Cb and Cr samples. As mentioned previously, 12-bit formats are rare, but 10-bit sampling is not that uncommon. Just substitute 10 bits for the 12 bits in the previous example, and that's what the 5910 is putting out. When 10-bit sampling is used, there are 4 unused bits out of 24 on every pixel clock.

The 'green channel' is used for the upper 8 luma bits, while the 'red channel' is used for the upper 8 chroma bits for both Cb and Cr. The lower bits are packed into the 'blue channel', with 2 extra LSBs per component for 10-bit formats and 4 extra LSBs per component for 12-bit.

- Dale Adams

The HDMI specification clearly states (in screen shot posted above), "24 bits total per pixel". A pixel is a pixel is a pixel.

If you're asserting there are up to 36 bits per pixel, spread across 2 data clocks, then there is clearly a factual/typographical error in the HDMI specification.

And if it's supposed to be using 1.5 clocks per pixel for this mode, thus reducing the effective bandwidth by 50%, can you explain how it's supposed to work @ 1920x1080p/60 + 8x192kHz audio over a single 165MHz link? Because I have a 1080p DVD player that supports this mode, and a 1080p display device, and when I enable that mode over HDMI -- surprise! -- it shows a picture. That should be impossible because 1920x1080p/60 with 5% blanking is over 130MHz, and with 50% bandwidth increase it would be 195MHz.

KC

:rolleyes: CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? ;)

The HDMI specification clearly states (in screen shot posted above), "24 bits total per pixel".
What's actually meant is 24 bits per pixel clock. When you have a 4:2:2 format an entire pixel is not transferred in 1 clock, as it takes 2 clocks to transfer both chroma components. That language would be correct for a 4:4:4 signal, but it's simply not the case when you have subsampled chroma.

A pixel is a pixel is a pixel.
That sounds like a computer-centric viewpoint. Video formats are often different. Perhaps the problem is that you're thinking about pixels when you should be looking at the video data stream as samples. Many common YCbCr formats have different sample rates for luma and chroma components. This provides the ability to spread out the chroma samples over multiple clocks, which is a simple form of compression. It also means that on a single clock you do not get all the data you need to form a 'pixel' needed by the display.

If you're asserting there are up to 36 bits per pixel, spread across 2 data clocks, then there is clearly a factual/typographical error in the HDMI specification.
No, read what I wrote above again. There are 48 bits per 2 pixels, with those 48 bits being spread out across 2 clocks. There are 2 12-bit luma samples (assuming we're still talking about HDMI's 12-bit mode here) and 1 12-bit Cb sample and 1 12-bit Cr sample transferred in 2 clock periods. Chroma is sampled at only half the rate of luma, so there are half as many samples per period as there are for luma.

And if it's supposed to be using 1.5 clocks per pixel for this mode, thus reducing the effective bandwidth by 50%, can you explain how it's supposed to work @ 1920x1080p/60 + 8x192kHz audio over a single 165MHz link? Because I have a 1080p DVD player that supports this mode, and a 1080p display device, and when I enable that mode over HDMI -- surprise! -- it shows a picture. That should be impossible because 1920x1080p/60 with 5% blanking is over 130MHz, and with 50% bandwidth increase it would be 195MHz.
First of all, you don't have 1.5 clocks per pixel. There is, on average, 1 pixel transferred per clock (1 luma sample and 1 Cb or Cr sample), at least during the active video portion of the signal. The 'pixel' clock rate for 1080p/60 is approximately 148 MHz. That includes blanking periods, so it fits well within DVI's or HDMI's 165 MHz maximum clock rate.

I'm not 100% sure how audio is handled in the current HDMI spec (as there were multiple techniques under discussion the last time I looked at it), but 192 kHz is roughly 3 orders of magnitude below the 148 MHz rate of 1080p/60. Even if the audio stream has 10x the data per sample that the video does, it will fit easily inside the horizontal and vertical blanking periods. Blanking takes up 401,400 clocks out of the 2,475,000 clocks in a 1080p/60 frame, or about 16% of the signal, so there's lots of room for audio.

If there's something about the above explanation that's not clear, let me know and I'll try to address it.

- Dale Adams

Iam not capable of understanding the craze about the future formats, so can yooze guys tink about this:

At some level, will my 5910 PQ be outgunned by a low- or mid-end blueray?

Will the leapfrog in techology of the new paradigm be better than the highly processed PQ of the older technology? Or just better in different ways?

Iam not capable of understanding the craze about the future formats, so can yooze guys tink about this:

At some level, will my 5910 PQ be outgunned by a low- or mid-end blueray?

Will the leapfrog in techology of the new paradigm be better than the highly processed PQ of the older technology? Or just better in different ways?
Yes the 5910 PQ will be outgunned. You can compare today a movie via HD broadcast to a DVD on the 5910. To me there just seems to be more black info, less noise and more depth to the image. But the caveat is the content must also be HD recorded. A lot of the HD broadcasts now are so compressed the image does not look that good at all.

Iam not capable of understanding the craze about the future formats, so can yooze guys tink about this:

At some level, will my 5910 PQ be outgunned by a low- or mid-end blueray?

Will the leapfrog in techology of the new paradigm be better than the highly processed PQ of the older technology? Or just better in different ways?

Yes and No,

It will be outgunned in terms of native HD material being played back on any HD player. High definition material has more resolution, plain and simple. It also has more bandwidth. Better detail, better color definition (including black).

But I severely doubt that even the highest end Blu-Ray model for the next few years will be able to playback standard DVDs as well as the 5910. Taking a look at the initial supporters of Blu-Ray pretty much assures this. And given that most of the money invested in the hardware design went to decoding all the new stuff Blu-Ray offers, SD-DVD playback will be pretty much an afterthought.

So the 5910 is still something that you should get a lot of use out of for still quite a few more years to come, even longer if you are into high resolution audio.

Has anyone heard when Denon will start offering the 1080P upgrade? I heard sometime in January. Any update on the timeline.

Paul

Yes and No,

It will be outgunned in terms of native HD material being played back on any HD player. High definition material has more resolution, plain and simple. It also has more bandwidth. Better detail, better color definition (including black).

But I severely doubt that even the highest end Blu-Ray model for the next few years will be able to playback standard DVDs as well as the 5910. Taking a look at the initial supporters of Blu-Ray pretty much assures this. And given that most of the money invested in the hardware design went to decoding all the new stuff Blu-Ray offers, SD-DVD playback will be pretty much an afterthought.

So the 5910 is still something that you should get a lot of use out of for still quite a few more years to come, even longer if you are into high resolution audio.

Thank you Kris, my thoughts on the 5910 exactly. Which is why I purchased one recently. The High Def dvd format will by definition, as you say, outperform SD dvds but what will do a better job of playing my 500+ SD dvd library than the 5910? And when I do buy the HD format machine and start buying HD DVDs, (or BR DVDs); 1. I am not going to suddenly stop watching many of the older SD format movies, and 2. the 5910 high res audio will play on for years to come.

Yes, the 5910si represents a serious investment but for me the timing of this product was right considering I don't plan on buying another SD format DVD player again in my life time.

mark

I don't plan on buying another SD format DVD player again in my life time.

Until the Denon DVD-5920 DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray/SACD/DVD-A Universal with Realta HQV comes out :)

Until the Denon DVD-5920 DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray/SACD/DVD-A Universal with Realta HQV comes out :)

You think? Darn, should have waited another two years ;)

Just pulled the trigger on a 5910. Upgrading from a 5900.
Got a great deal if the seller is truthful.
Will look at it this Friday to confirm.
I’ve read this thread from start to finish and the SP1000 vs 5910 thread. Whew!
I know I’m late to the game with this but does anyone else have a hard time deciding when and what to upgrade to?
In the last few of years it’s been extremely tough at times.
You can wait forever but at some point you just gotta go.
Earlier I was set to go with the 79AVi but as usual Mr. Deering came to the rescue,
not that the 79 is bad, far from it. It's just not the one for me.
Then I was set on the upcoming Oppo970 w\HDMI which is still very likely but for some reason I've got a bad audio upgrade jones going.
I'm hoping the 5910 is a noticeable upgrade in audio. I'm sure it will be on the video side.
Judging from this thread the 5910 has been a remarkably solid product.
I’ve heard\seen Kris’s system and it pisses me off every time ;)

It was a bit funny reading some of the posts here from 2004 scolding people for buying the 5910 when
hi-def dvd was “just around the corner” and 5910’s would be a dime a dozen on E-Bay.
Sorry for the ramble, still wondering if I did the right thing.

Just pulled the trigger on a 5910. Upgrading from a 5900.
Got a great deal if the seller is truthful.
Will look at it this Friday to confirm.
I’ve read this thread from start to finish and the SP1000 vs 5910 thread. Whew!
I know I’m late to the game with this but does anyone else have a hard time deciding when and what to upgrade to?
In the last few of years it’s been extremely tough at times.
You can wait forever but at some point you just gotta go.
Earlier I was set to go with the 79AVi but as usual Mr. Deering came to the rescue,
not that the 79 is bad, far from it. It's just not the one for me.
Then I was set on the upcoming Oppo970 w\HDMI which is still very likely but for some reason I've got a bad audio upgrade jones going.
I'm hoping the 5910 is a noticeable upgrade in audio. I'm sure it will be on the video side.
Judging from this thread the 5910 has been a remarkably solid product.
I’ve heard\seen Kris’s system and it pisses me off every time ;)

It was a bit funny reading some of the posts here from 2004 scolding people for buying the 5910 when
hi-def dvd was “just around the corner” and 5910’s would be a dime a dozen on E-Bay.
Sorry for the ramble, still wondering if I did the right thing.

Milt99,

I recently made a similar move! If you are a dork than so am I (misery loves company). I took it one step further though, I had my 5900 SDI modded and purchased a DVDO HD+ scaler in an effort to get rid of the macro-blocking bug, then finally stepped up and got the 5910 for not only the improved video, but also the improved build quality. This will definitely be my last SD DVD player so I figured I wanted the VERY best picture and competitive sound to last me for years to come. Of course I will eventually purchase a HD DVD/Blue Ray player, but as Kris D has mentioed they are not likely to have high quality SD DVD playback, so I feel my 5910 will serve me for quite sometime. Gonna have to get a bigger rack for all of the machines I'll need to keep up with the technology!

You won't regret your purchase IMHO, you will have comfort knowing that there is not likely to EVER be a superior SD DVD player produced.

Half

Just pulled the trigger on a 5910. Upgrading from a 5900.
Got a great deal if the seller is truthful.
Will look at it this Friday to confirm.
I’ve read this thread from start to finish and the SP1000 vs 5910 thread. Whew!
I know I’m late to the game with this but does anyone else have a hard time deciding when and what to upgrade to?
In the last few of years it’s been extremely tough at times.
You can wait forever but at some point you just gotta go.
Earlier I was set to go with the 79AVi but as usual Mr. Deering came to the rescue,
not that the 79 is bad, far from it. It's just not the one for me.
Then I was set on the upcoming Oppo970 w\HDMI which is still very likely but for some reason I've got a bad audio upgrade jones going.
I'm hoping the 5910 is a noticeable upgrade in audio. I'm sure it will be on the video side.
Judging from this thread the 5910 has been a remarkably solid product.
I’ve heard\seen Kris’s system and it pisses me off every time ;)

It was a bit funny reading some of the posts here from 2004 scolding people for buying the 5910 when
hi-def dvd was “just around the corner” and 5910’s would be a dime a dozen on E-Bay.
Sorry for the ramble, still wondering if I did the right thing.

Not to sound rude Milt but when have you seen my system? I suck at forum names so don't take it personal if we've met.

Ah, never mind Milt, didn't recognize you in your costume Doug ;)

Glad you went ahead with the 5910, I can't wait to finally hear your finished product over there. And you know you are more than welcome anytime here.

I just don't think a person can go wrong with a 5910...

Unless their wife divorces them or something...:D

Judging from this thread the 5910 has been a remarkably solid product.
I’ve heard\seen Kris’s system and it pisses me off every time ;)

It was a bit funny reading some of the posts here from 2004 scolding people for buying the 5910 when
hi-def dvd was “just around the corner” and 5910’s would be a dime a dozen on E-Bay.
Sorry for the ramble, still wondering if I did the right thing.

I have to agree with you there, I was just remembering a famous (infamous) poster from near the beginning of the forum, Joerod (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?userid=51052) springs to mind...Wonder what happened to the HD players.. I guess they'll be here sometime in spring ;)

GraXXoR.

Give you a little huh? wtf? there Kris? :D
Yeah, finally getting the beast.
I don't why but for some reason I'm a bit hestitant oh well.
Seriously guys, Kris has a fantastic system.

Hey Half.
Where abouts in Alaska are you?
Years ago when I was young I did some fishing out in Nak-Nek.
After the season we'd stop in Anchorage for a 24 hour bender.
Wow was that fun.
Memories
Sorry for the OT.

I have to agree with you there, I was just remembering a famous (infamous) poster from near the beginning of the forum, Joerod (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?userid=51052) springs to mind...Wonder what happened to the HD players.. I guess they'll be here sometime in spring ;)

GraXXoR.

Joe was going on the information he had at the time and brought up some very valid points. I would prefer true HD stuff too. The more HD I watch, the harder it is to watch DVD, that is for sure. Joe is a good guy and is passionate about this stuff just like the rest of us. We all get carried away once in awhile.

Hey Half.
Where abouts in Alaska are you?
Years ago when I was young I did some fishing out in Nak-Nek.
After the season we'd stop in Anchorage for a 24 hour bender.
Wow was that fun.
Memories
Sorry for the OT.[/QUOTE]


Anchorage is where I'm at Milt99, but I have lived in Juneau and Palmer/Wasilla also.

Half

Does anyone have a Pronto TSU-3000 PCF for the DVD-5910? I'd be greatly appreciative if you could share.

Thanks,
Dave

So Half since you've had both, I'm interested in your views re: 5900 vs 5910.
How do you like the 5910 for audio?
How does the 5910 compare to your 5900 w\ SDI?
Thanks.

So Half since you've had both, I'm interested in your views re: 5900 vs 5910.
How do you like the 5910 for audio?
How does the 5910 compare to your 5900 w\ SDI?
Thanks.

The 5900 sounded great, so does the 5910. I honestly never had them setup at the same time, so I can't say I could give you an accurate A/B comparison of audio quality. Safe to say you will not be disappointed in the audio performance of the 5910, and it seems to be alot less finicky about various discs that my 5900 wouldn't play (audioquest sacds, dual-discs, etc).

Video quality wise, the 5900 w/SDI feeding the iScanHD+ was an awesome thing! I was sooooo happy to finally be rid of the macro-blocking issues, and feel that the Silicon Image de-interlacing is definitely better than Faroujda's (especially cause I own maybe two video based DVDs). I wasn't really expecting a large difference in video performance with the 5910, but I have to say that the Relata chipset is definitely all that it is touted to be. Not only do quality transfers look better than ever, but do to the advanced noise reduction, cadence detection, etc even the lower qualtiy discs that sometimes were unwatchable on the 5900 are now very tolerable.

I definitely don't regret the move, although I certainly didn't "NEED" to upgrade, I got a great price, and sold my player/scaler at a decent price so opporunity presented itself.

Now if Sony would just release a SXRD 50" that will accept 1080P input I will finally be ready for a display upgrade also!

Half

I have had the 5900 and 5910 in my system at the same time and I agree with Half's comments.

Kal

I've had both as well, though not at the same time.

Definite improvement in Video, probably audio, and way faster in menus.

I was reading an otherwise unremarkable review somewhere that said the A1XV trounces the 9000 in every way. Having owned the A1 before I got my A1XV, at first I concurred.. "yep, that's right," but then I got to thinking, "does it?"

I then realised I miss three things from my old A1.

I really do miss the digital inputs that the old DVD-A1 of mine had. I used to play my Denon MD through them. It would have been excellent had the A1XV had some inputs, especially considering the quality of the video section. Do you think it was a license issue (i.e. stepping on the toes of higher priced decoders, in much the same way as limiting output resolutions)?

I really miss the sleek and minimal styling of the A1: The no nonsense fascia was gorgeous. Now replaced with a noisy powerstation control panel cum F1 sponsors' billboard.

However, finally I miss the menu navigation speed of the A1. (also mentioned this in a previous post).

Anyone miss anything else after upgrading their DVD to the A1XV?

Cheers,

GraXXoR

I've had both as well, though not at the same time.

Definite improvement in Video, probably audio, and way faster in menus.


OH YEAH, what in over-sight, HUGE improvement in navigation speed, not quite a DVD2900 unfortunately. The DVD2900 left you with a feeling of DAMN this thing is incredibly fast, the 5900 left you with a feeling of CRAP this thing is a dog, and the 5910 just does everything well, not so fast that you are in "awe", but fast enough that when using another player you will definitely notice how slow the rest of the competition is.

Not to mention the 5910 has a very quiet transport, excluding the constant relay clicking during chapter/format changes.

Did I meniton I love my 5910!LOL :)

I was reading an otherwise unremarkable review somewhere that said the A1XV trounces the 9000 in every way. Having owned the A1 before I got my A1XV, at first I concurred.. "yep, that's right," but then I got to thinking, "does it?"

I then realised I miss three things from my old A1.

I really do miss the digital inputs that the old DVD-A1 of mine had. I used to play my Denon MD through them. It would have been excellent had the A1XV had some inputs, especially considering the quality of the video section. Do you think it was a license issue (i.e. stepping on the toes of higher priced decoders, in much the same way as limiting output resolutions)?

I really miss the sleek and minimal styling of the A1: The no nonsense fascia was gorgeous. Now replaced with a noisy powerstation control panel cum F1 sponsors' billboard.

However, finally I miss the menu navigation speed of the A1. (also mentioned this in a previous post).

Anyone miss anything else after upgrading their DVD to the A1XV?

Cheers,

GraXXoR

I had a 3800, baby brother to the 9000, I really miss the constant freezes during playback, ultra sesitivity to less than perfect discs! (NOT)

Just kidding of course, if I could have found a reliable one, or perhaps Denon had came up with a fix earlier on, I probably would have had it until I stepped to the 5900 (and saved myself a lot of $ purchasing other players and trying to find one that was in the sames class, and reliable, never did).

Half

Kal,
I am looking forward to Part 2 of your article on the 5910 & 4806.
I realize the point of the article was to explore the digital connectivity and Auto-EQ features but have you connected the 5910 to the 4806 via analog cables and used the 5910's internal D\A conversion or connected the 5910 to any other pre-amps you have either for review or ones that you own?

I'd be interested to hear your impressions.

BTW, I enjoy your column immensely.

I am looking forward to Part 2 of your article on the 5910 & 4806.
Thanks. Already on it's way.

I realize the point of the article was to explore the digital connectivity and Auto-EQ features but have you connected the 5910 to the 4806 via analog cables and used the 5910's internal D\A conversion....
Yes.

or connected the 5910 to any other pre-amps you have either for review or ones that you own?
Not really. Not enough time.

BTW, I enjoy your column immensely.
Thanks.

Kal

Thanks Kal.
I was just returning to edit my query to say,
"Of course without compromising your upcoming article."
Hopefully your listening impressions will be in the upcoming issue.

Thanks Kal.
I was just returning to edit my query to say,
"Of course without compromising your upcoming article."
Hopefully your listening impressions will be in the upcoming issue.

I too look forward to hearing your impressions of the 5910's analog playback vs the performance of a receiver such as the Denon 4806.

Keep up the good work Kal

Half

I too look forward to hearing your impressions of the 5910's analog playback vs the performance of a receiver such as the Denon 4806.

Keep up the good work Kal

Half

Sorry. You will be disappointed in this particular expectation for reasons that will be made clear in the forthcoming article. That's all I will say for now. (You can shoot me later.)

Kal

Sorry. You will be disappointed in this particular expectation for reasons that will be made clear in the forthcoming article. That's all I will say for now. (You can shoot me later.)

Kal

Actually probably not as disappointed as enlightened, I actually find that the 5910's redbook playback is lacking in comparison with using it as a transport for my Integra Research RDA-7. I thought I might just be imagining this, but perhaps not. Unfortunately IR never made good on the promise of firewire for the RDA-7 so I'll never know how it would do with DVDA, and I assume that it's DAC's can't handle SACD anyway. Maybe it's time for that Integra Research RDC-7.1 upgrade after all? :confused: ;) :cool:

Actually probably not as disappointed as enlightened, I actually find that the 5910's redbook playback is lacking in comparison with using it as a transport for my Integra Research RDA-7. I thought I might just be imagining this, but perhaps not. Unfortunately IR never made good on the promise of firewire for the RDA-7 so I'll never know how it would do with DVDA, and I assume that it's DAC's can't handle SACD anyway. Maybe it's time for that Integra Research RDC-7.1 upgrade after all? :confused: ;) :cool:

The 7.1 is a tempting package. My(!) problem is trust. (JUst ask my wife!) Will IR continue to support this dandy product with new interfaces?

Kal

The 7.1 is a tempting package. My(!) problem is trust. (JUst ask my wife!) Will IR continue to support this dandy product with new interfaces?

Kal

I have to agree with you on that one, but can we really "TRUST" anyone to support their product beyond one year? IR has done a reasonable job with the RDC-7 (two upgrades over a four year period of time) and Denon has offered similar support with the 580x receivers.

I wish the BIG DOGS from across the water would take an example from our buddies "up north" (Anthem). But unfortunately that type of on-going product upgrade support isn't always whats best for the "bottom line profits."

Half

I have to agree with you on that one, but can we really "TRUST" anyone to support their product beyond one year? IR has done a reasonable job with the RDC-7 (two upgrades over a four year period of time) and Denon has offered similar support with the 580x receivers.

I wish the BIG DOGS from across the water would take an example from our buddies "up north" (Anthem). But unfortunately that type of on-going product upgrade support isn't always whats best for the "bottom line profits."

Half

It's a tough business model as it is logical and appealing but less profitable than selling a new model every year or two.

I am still amazed that Meridian keeps my 861 at the edge. If it only had an input for SACD........

Kal

It's a tough business model as it is logical and appealing but less profitable than selling a new model every year or two.

I am still amazed that Meridian keeps my 861 at the edge. If it only had an input for SACD........

Kal

Of course if they didn't keep coming out with new models, we wouldn't be spending so much time and money on this crazy hobby. The divorce rate would go down, and divorce attorneys would go broke, causing the highend product lines that only they can afford to go out of business. Not to mention the clients that keep me flush enough to hide enough cash from my wife to keep my upgrade habit alive!

Guess they better keep coming out with new models with new features that will make us yern to upgrade, or the whole world will go to heck!

Half :rolleyes:

Hi guys i live in Athens Greece and i have the A1XV (5910) for 5 months, my display is a Philips 42PF9830 lcd and the connection is through HDMI, the picture was more than great but yesterday out of the blue the A1XV shows all movies with heavy solarization (effect common of the early plasmas with low bit color).
The tv is fine i have two others dvd players and the picture is fine.
Any clues?
Thanks a lot.

Try a new HDMI cable. I've had several of them go bad on me. One diagnostic you can try is to see if you have the same problem with component cables.

Thanks for the responce.
I tried a different HDMI cable same think.
I contacted Denon and they don't have a clue the will respond next week they don't know whats going on.
I will try the component output to see what happen.

Actually probably not as disappointed as enlightened, I actually find that the 5910's redbook playback is lacking in comparison with using it as a transport for my Integra Research RDA-7. I thought I might just be imagining this, but perhaps not. Unfortunately IR never made good on the promise of firewire for the RDA-7 so I'll never know how it would do with DVDA, and I assume that it's DAC's can't handle SACD anyway. Maybe it's time for that Integra Research RDC-7.1 upgrade after all? :confused: ;) :cool:

I found general audio playback lacking also. I purchased an Ayre C-5xe for music playback, and will be using the 5910 for movies and surround music when one of my goofy friends comes over and wants to hear what surround sound is like...

will be using the 5910 for movies and surround music when one of my goofy friends comes over and wants to hear what surround sound is like...

Where do you live?...can I come over and be one of your goofy friends for a day? :D

I know this is all old hat here but I will post my "first look" impressions of the 5910 vs. 5900.

Boy, I thought the 5900 was built like a tank but the 5910 is substantially heavier.
The connector layout on the back is also better especially the analog outs.
Layed out inline with space between rather than the stacked,cramped ones on the 5900.
I've never taken the lid off the 5900 but you can see the copper clading of the chassis.
Looking through the vent holes on the 5910 I cannot tell if the chassis is copper clad or
not but the lay out looks substantially different than the 5900.

The front panel layout is also a step up to me.

I played a couple of sacds and the sound seems quite a bit better to me than the 5900 which surprised me on a first listen.
Not drastic but just smoother with a better bottom end. This could all be just my mind auto-rationalizing the upgrade but that is my initial impression.

I threw in home burned single & dual layer DVD+Rs, no problem.

Plugged in the Superbit 5th Element, no doubt about this, the pq is a lot better than the 5900.
Sharp and detailed without being edgy. Very nice.

Lookswise I say it's about a draw. The 5900 has a substantial, clean look. The 5910 is taller and has a beefier look.

On first look I say this unit is a definite keeper and worth the price of admission.

I know this is all old hat here but I will post my "first look" impressions of the 5910 vs. 5900.

Boy, I thought the 5900 was built like a tank but the 5910 is substantially heavier.
The connector layout on the back is also better especially the analog outs.
Layed out inline with space between rather than the stacked,cramped ones on the 5900.
I've never taken the lid off the 5900 but you can see the copper clading of the chassis.
Looking through the vent holes on the 5910 I cannot tell if the chassis is copper clad or
not but the lay out looks substantially different than the 5900.

The front panel layout is also a step up to me.

I played a couple of sacds and the sound seems quite a bit better to me than the 5900 which surprised me on a first listen.
Not drastic but just smoother with a better bottom end. This could all be just my mind auto-rationalizing the upgrade but that is my initial impression.

I threw in home burned single & dual layer DVD+Rs, no problem.

Plugged in the Superbit 5th Element, no doubt about this, the pq is a lot better than the 5900.
Sharp and detailed without being edgy. Very nice.

Lookswise I say it's about a draw. The 5900 has a substantial, clean look. The 5910 is taller and has a beefier look.

On first look I say this unit is a definite keeper and worth the price of admission.

Glad to hear that you are happy with your investment!

Congrats Milt99....

Half

Where do you live?...can I come over and be one of your goofy friends for a day? :D

I live about 45 minutes outside NYC, way too far from MD. ;)

I was just thinking, how fast would my wife beat the holy crap out of me if I brought someone home whom I met over the Internet and introduced him/her to my three kids? :rolleyes: :D

KAL I look forward to your review of SACD and DVD-A over the DL3 interface.

Anyone here go from a 3910 to a 5910 ?????

-- Cain

About to. I'll let you know how I go. Going to have the 5910, the new Pioneer BLu-Ray Elite Player and the Toshiba HD-DVD player all together on my rack :)

Sweet !! And you have a 3910 now ??

OK, help me out here - couple questions on the 5910:

Are the units that are currently shipping all set with Denon Link 3?

How about the "new" upgrade, which I hear has something to do with video? Doesn't that cost additional $ too?

Go Spizz!!
Pure speculation on my part, but I think Kal's review of the 5910 will be less than positive.

BamBam.
AFAIK, the video upgrade is for 1080p output, for units that have a serial number ending in less than 500 it requires a hardware\firmware update and costs $300.

There is\will be units produced that have the hardware onboard.
The MSRP will increase equal to the upgrade cost and the firmware will be "free" when available.
Preliminary info is earlier in this thread and there are a couple of different versions on this so.....

[QUOTE=Milt99]Go Spizz!!
Pure speculation on my part, but I think Kal's review of the 5910 will be less than positive.
QUOTE]

This seems crazy, as EVERY review I've read on this player has been outstanding.

[QUOTE=I was just thinking, how fast would my wife beat the holy crap out of me if I brought someone home whom I met over the Internet and introduced him/her to my three kids? :rolleyes: :D[/QUOTE]

Ya, mine to. Certainly wouldn't want to give my daughter any ideas, (I can just hear her now, "But Dad, you did it!). However, I just met a guy about a year ago through the DC Area Home Theater Ready to Show Off (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=538872) thread. Turns out we live about three miles apart. He came over for a listen and now would like help with his mx700 remote. It can work.

Just kidding about the visit :D I don't travel our DC beltway if I can help it. But if you're ever in the area you're certainly welcome to hear my modified 5910.

[QUOTE=Milt99]Go Spizz!!
Pure speculation on my part, but I think Kal's review of the 5910 will be less than positive.
QUOTE]

This seems crazy, as EVERY review I've read on this player has been outstanding.

Bambam, and Milt99:

IMHO, I am guessing that Kal's review is more likely to indicate that he feels that the multi-channel audio output via firewire/denon-link into the AVR4806 is superior to the analog output of the DVD5910, this can be a result of many factors including the internal bass management/time alignment of the 5910 being inferior to that of the AVR4806. I would be suprised if he indicates that the 5910 is a subpar audio performer in comparison with other universal players, but rather that the denon-link/firewire output is the best option if available.

For those of us that don't have a firewire/denon-link input, multi-channel analog bass management capable input, or full-range speakers all around the 5910's bass managment is a wonderful alternative. Giving up bass management would likely cause a greater drop in sound quality than the DSD/PCM/DSD conversion that take place in the 5910's circuitry, and almost certainly better than an extra AD/DA conversion like most pre-pros require to offer bass mangement on their multi-channel inputs.

Half

[QUOTE=bambam]

Bambam, and Milt99:

IMHO, I am guessing that Kal's review is more likely to indicate that he feels that the multi-channel audio output via firewire/denon-link into the AVR4806 is superior to the analog output of the DVD5910, this can be a result of many factors including the internal bass management/time alignment of the 5910 being inferior to that of the AVR4806. I would be suprised if he indicates that the 5910 is a subpar audio performer in comparison with other universal players, but rather that the denon-link/firewire output is the best option if available.

For those of us that don't have a firewire/denon-link input, multi-channel analog bass management capable input, or full-range speakers all around the 5910's bass managment is a wonderful alternative. Giving up bass management would likely cause a greater drop in sound quality than the DSD/PCM/DSD conversion that take place in the 5910's circuitry, and almost certainly better than an extra AD/DA conversion like most pre-pros require to offer bass mangement on their multi-channel inputs.

Half

My guess would be just the opposite as Kal has a dedicated ITU spec'd setup for multi-channel, so time alignment shouldn't be an issue.

Looking forward to the writeup in any case. :)

[QUOTE=Halfrican]

My guess would be just the opposite as Kal has a dedicated ITU spec'd setup for multi-channel, so time alignment shouldn't be an issue.

Looking forward to the writeup in any case. :)

Valid point, I guess only thing we can do to know for sure is just wait. (I hate this part)LOL

Half

Half, as my earlier post indicates, I tend to agree with you in regards to Kal’s cryptic response.
That’s just a gut feeling.
Otherwise, logic tells me the 5910 would be superior at digital to analog processing than the 4806.
But not knowing the detailed chip\circuit specs on the 4806, it may have some advantage when doing a direct
digital link with the 5910 that results in better sound. From looking at Ti’s specs, the 5910 seems to have
better DACs but that is only part of the equation.
I do know that the 5910 via analog to my D1 sounds nice.

This also brings up an OT question, clearly there is a duplication of processes between this receiver and player.
Both consumers and manufacturers are faced with this dilemma, where do you put the money?

Go Hawks!

I'm curious what KR will have to say. I've had a bunch of SACD players and CD players in the last 2 years, from the mundane (cheap Sony 5 CD changer) to the more expensive (Sony XA9000ES). Although I liked the XA9000ES (I had two different units over time). the sound is too clynical and never got to me (missing a soul). It is very well built and has one of the most silent transports I've had but I parted with it.

The Pio 59AVi was a solid performer and had a more lively sound than the XA9000ES but it lost in the other characteristics (sound stage, midrange, bass, etc.).

As funny as it may sound I finally settled on the Sony SCD-1. This is a hell of a machine, extremely well built and the first CD I put on it brought tears to my eyes. The SACD (2-channel only) is nothing short of superb. Although it is not a true balanced player, I connected it to the Krell via balanced and it sounded better than the unbalanced connection.

Now the 5910 is good but not a match for the SCD-1. It has newer DACs and brings more detail but when I place a CD on the SCD-1 I immediately get engaged in the music, the same does not happen to the 5910. The DVD-A is superb, much better than the other players I had.

I'm curious what KR will have to say. I've had a bunch of SACD players and CD players in the last 2 years, from the mundane (cheap Sony 5 CD changer) to the more expensive (Sony XA9000ES). Although I liked the XA9000ES (I had two different units over time). the sound is too clynical and never got to me (missing a soul). It is very well built and has one of the most silent transports I've had but I parted with it.

The Pio 59AVi was a solid performer and had a more lively sound than the XA9000ES but it lost in the other characteristics (sound stage, midrange, bass, etc.).

As funny as it may sound I finally settled on the Sony SCD-1. This is a hell of a machine, extremely well built and the first CD I put on it brought tears to my eyes. The SACD (2-channel only) is nothing short of superb. Although it is not a true balanced player, I connected it to the Krell via balanced and it sounded better than the unbalanced connection.

Now the 5910 is good but not a match for the SCD-1. It has newer DACs and brings more detail but when I place a CD on the SCD-1 I immediately get engaged in the music, the same does not happen to the 5910. The DVD-A is superb, much better than the other players I had.

I agree that the SACD and DVD-Audio playback on the 5910 are quite good, yet using the 5910 as transport only feeding my Integra Research RDC-7 on Redbook playback is superior IMHO.

Half

I heard from my Denon source that the 5910ci has been pushed back until mid-late February.. I have my order in, so I'll let y'all know when it ships :)

Half, as my earlier post indicates, I tend to agree with you in regards to Kal’s cryptic response.

My response has nothing to do with quality issues. ;)

Kal

Guys,

I'm getting occasional digital noise when watching DVDs. A patch of the screen goes blue and blocky for a moment, like watching the first few seconds of a DV cassette, before the image stabilises. It occurs randomly, perhaps once every two DVDs or so. (It occured about three times while watching the 6 disc USA release of Desperate Housewives). I've tried to rewind and play back the affected area again, but the problem never reoccurs.

I was told that the 5910 was less sensitive to bad media than its predecessors so do you think I have a faulty unit? Or dirty? Denon only gave the thing to me last November after >>an eighteen month running battle with Denon (click) (http://lloydie.homeip.net/blog/blog2004.php?show=50&order=asc&mode=view) << over a faulty A1, so I don't really want to contact them for a while.

Anyone else with this issue?

Cheers.

Guys,

I'm getting occasional digital noise when watching DVDs. A patch of the screen goes blue and blocky for a moment, like watching the first few seconds of a DV cassette, before the image stabilises. It occurs randomly, perhaps once every two DVDs or so. (It occured about three times while watching the 6 disc USA release of Desperate Housewives). I've tried to rewind and play back the affected area again, but the problem never reoccurs.

I was told that the 5910 was less sensitive to bad media than its predecessors so do you think I have a faulty unit? Or dirty? Denon only gave the thing to me last November after >>an eighteen month running battle with Denon (click) (http://lloydie.homeip.net/blog/blog2004.php?show=50&order=asc&mode=view) << over a faulty A1, so I don't really want to contact them for a while.

Anyone else with this issue?

Cheers.

I've seen this on my 5910, and also on my 5900 before and after the SDI mod was done. I assume it has to do with a "laser pickup" issue or perhaps something to do with the "memory buffer" that Denon has saturating?

You are not alone, and like you said it happens rarely and is not repeatable so I've learned to live with it.

Half

The 5900 threads have but disappeared so I'll ask the question here since many of you have gone from the 5900 to the 5910.

Wasn't there a laser alignment issue with the 5900 that Denon would fix if you sent the unit to them? I seem to recall mention of something like it months and months ago. My 5900 will occasionally not recognize a disk in the tray, it will just read zeros on the front panel display, even after repeatedly opening and closing the tray. If I turn the player off and then back on it usually resolves the issue. It has not refused to play any disk so far, but it seems as if the problem is getting a tad bit more frequent, maybe every 15 or so discs.

Thanks in advance for any input. :)

My response has nothing to do with quality issues. ;) Wow Kal, that clears up everything. :p
So if it's not a "quality" thing, could be a "quantity" thing?

Half, a friend of mine with the 5910 also uses his pre/pro to do the D-A conversion on redbook.
Not the same player, but Tom Norton thought the 5900 excelled at CD.

Keenan, I have occasionally had this issue on the 5900, mostly with DVD-A discs.
Almost always it will make a BURRR sound like the disc is fluttering.
I open the drawer, re-seat the disc and hit close. Always works.
When I say occasionally I really do mean occasionally and it has not grown more frequent.
Hopefully you can get your issue resolved either with a repair or a good trade-in\up offer.

But my trusty 5900 is boxed up and going to a new home this weekend along with my projector and screen
I know people had issues with this player, real & perceived, but as far as reliability I had none.
It played every type of disc that was put into it.
It only failed on one, an early REM VCD. It would play the audio tracks but not the video.

Wow Kal, that clears up everything. :p
So if it's not a "quality" thing, could be a "quantity" thing?

You might say so.

Kal (intentionally evasive)

Kal, my next guess was maybe connectivity but I'm giving up. :confused:
I'll just wait for the next issue.

You know, I really would like to have a head to head between the 5910 and say a Meridian or a Theta.
I guess I need more upscale friends.

Keenan, I have occasionally had this issue on the 5900, mostly with DVD-A discs.
Almost always it will make a BURRR sound like the disc is fluttering.
I open the drawer, re-seat the disc and hit close. Always works.
When I say occasionally I really do mean occasionally and it has not grown more frequent.
Hopefully you can get your issue resolved either with a repair or a good trade-in\up offer.

But my trusty 5900 is boxed up and going to a new home this weekend along with my projector and screen
I know people had issues with this player, real & perceived, but as far as reliability I had none.
It played every type of disc that was put into it.
It only failed on one, an early REM VCD. It would play the audio tracks but not the video.
Yes, I have been very happy with the 5900 as well and this issue is really a minor inconvenience. My "plan" is to hope is stays healthy until a suitable HiDef player is available, and so far, it has done that, and that is why I really hadn't investigated the problem further.

3500+$ so soon to HiDef rollout isn't in the cards for me, otherwise I would have already gone with the 5910.

Guys,

I'm getting occasional digital noise when watching DVDs. A patch of the screen goes blue and blocky for a moment, like watching the first few seconds of a DV cassette, before the image stabilises. It occurs randomly, perhaps once every two DVDs or so. (It occured about three times while watching the 6 disc USA release of Desperate Housewives). I've tried to rewind and play back the affected area again, but the problem never reoccurs.

I was told that the 5910 was less sensitive to bad media than its predecessors so do you think I have a faulty unit? Or dirty? Denon only gave the thing to me last November after >>an eighteen month running battle with Denon (click) (http://lloydie.homeip.net/blog/blog2004.php?show=50&order=asc&mode=view) << over a faulty A1, so I don't really want to contact them for a while.

Anyone else with this issue?

Cheers.
On mine occasionaly on a DVD there is a small glitch in part of the image but it is very fast and it happened only once per movie and not on every DVD.
Take care,

3500+$ so soon to HiDef rollout isn't in the cards for me, otherwise I would have already gone with the 5910. Me either. The key for me was not paying $3.5k.
I don't plan on being an early HiDef adopter. The announced players do not have the features I want\need. Until they do, the 5910 will do fine.

Me either. The key for me was not paying $3.5k.
I don't plan on being an early HiDef adopter. The announced players do not have the features I want\need. Until they do, the 5910 will do fine.

DITTO! :)

I have been looking all over for a good buy on one of these used, anyone have any ideas? Post or Pm me please! I checked the web sites, and ebay no luck.

The Key for me was a good price also. However I will still be an early adopter and pick up both a Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray and Toshiba HD-DVD player until Denon creates the DVD-5920 that does it all :)

ZZTop,
dakmart has B stock units for 2.4k.
Otherwise there's Audiogon, check every day, pounce on the deal when it arrives.

We all know the 1080p output upgrade is coming soon. Audioholics lists an upcoming upgrade for the AVR-4806 that will allow for 1080p passthrough.

What will 4806 1080p passthrough allow? I'm assuming it's for video switching for those who don't want to attach their upgraded 5910's directly to the display.

True? If so, that's going to be a double whammy from Denon.

Has anyone compared these to 480i out a player, like the 59avi or 79avi and the newer dvdo scalers?

I also see the 59ci is due soon, 1080p from a regular dvd, nice.

Has anyone compared these to 480i out a player, like the 59avi or 79avi and the newer dvdo scalers?

I also see the 59ci is due soon, 1080p from a regular dvd, nice.

As I mentioned earlier I had a 5900 w/sdi feeding a HD+ (480i), the performance was excellent and the advantage of supeior scaling and de-interlacing on all my sources was a plus. But for straight up DVD playback performance (assuming your display's native resolution is 480p/720p/1080i the 5910 is almost impossible to beat.

The performance of the 58avi and 79avi feeding the HD+ via HDMI would be almost identical to that of the 5900 feeding it with SDI (IMHO).

Of course the next-gen players may offer even better performance, but as discussed earlier the first true HD players will likely have subpar SD DVD playback, and certainly not the quality of the 5910 or it's competitors.

Lastly the value of 1080p output is TOTALLY dependent on your displays ability to accept it. With the exception of maybe two displays currently available, none of the 1080p displays currently available can accept a rate higher than 720p.

Half

The Key for me was a good price also. However I will still be an early adopter and pick up both a Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray and Toshiba HD-DVD player until Denon creates the DVD-5920 that does it all :)

Price is everything. If Denon hadn't given me one there's no way on Earth I'd stump up 400,000 yen for it. I'd have settled for my faulty A1 until HD came in. As it was... I found the price hard to refuse ;)

-- I bet there are some Denon bashers out there who would still say I was ripped off ;)

But, to be honest, with my new Z4 projector replacing the old NEC540 I had, I'm 100% satisfied with it and can't see me moving over to HD, what with droves of 18 month old films being released on DVDs for less than 1000 yen (about $7~$8) a pop!

My next upgrade is a 12m HDMI cable, as I'm using D2 (component). Well, there goes my credibility.

Then I think I'll be satisfied to stay like this for a couple of years.

Is there a planned (or suspected) successor to the 5910?

Is this the last of Denon's ultra high end DVD player line before they focus their efforts on HDDVD or Blu Ray?

Is there a planned (or suspected) successor to the 5910?

Is this the last of Denon's ultra high end DVD player line before they focus their efforts on HDDVD or Blu Ray?

Yes, all reports indicate that Denon will not be producing another "high end" SD DVD player. The 5910 will be available this year with the 1080p output option, but other than that is unchanged from it's original incarnation. The owners of the non-1080p model can also have their units "upgraded" to have this feature.

Half

The 5910 is supposedly the last flagship SD-DVD player from Denon. I could see maybe adding HDMI 1.2 to it eventually as a new model of it (say the 5910A or something) but nothing else. Of course this would have to be a new player since it requires a different HDMI chip so that probably won't happen. Oh well. I would love to see Denon eventually offer a Universal HD player that supports BRD and HD-DVD with the features of the 5910 and all the bells and whistles. But I imagine that is a few years off at least.

Yes, all reports indicate that Denon will not be producing another "high end" SD DVD player. The 5910 will be available this year with the 1080p output option, but other than that is unchanged from it's original incarnation. The owners of the non-1080p model can also have their units "upgraded" to have this feature.

Half



The 5910 is supposedly the last flagship SD-DVD player from Denon. I could see maybe adding HDMI 1.2 to it eventually as a new model of it (say the 5910A or something) but nothing else. Of course this would have to be a new player since it requires a different HDMI chip so that probably won't happen. Oh well. I would love to see Denon eventually offer a Universal HD player that supports BRD and HD-DVD with the features of the 5910 and all the bells and whistles. But I imagine that is a few years off at least.


Cool, thanks.

ZZTop,
dakmart has B stock units for 2.4k.
Otherwise there's Audiogon, check every day, pounce on the deal when it arrives.

I have avoided spilling any grief or ill-will over my odyssey of regret. But it has been over 2 months since I bought from DAKMART a Denon 4806 and Denon 5910; and I am still e-mailing them over issues that any customer oriented business would honor (precisely my shipping cost as they promised and a friendly request that their 12 mo. warranty begin the day it arrived in working order 1/26/06 - not the day of purchase 11/28 or so).

The order was made & paid for BLACK Friday weekend, and delivered on the Thursday after - promp, well packed, but missing th microphone (it arrived 1/27/06). The 4806 has worked well since. The DVD arrived DOA, unable to play an AVIA calibration disk, same with other dvd's. Phone calls that Fri 12/07 or so said to await an RMA, that took almost 2 weeks to get. No one person's fault it wasn't refurbished properly, it was honestly probably a difficult problem, but all of the DENON organization; Q/A, who tested, packed all the stuff. I knew by checking that the firmware WAS NOT updated as they promised, etc.

Returning it, promises of quick returns, etc. I received it back 2 months later. After saying 1/23 I wanted a refund of $$$$ (more than now) so indeed I could buy elsewhere.

CAVEAT EMPTOR. At least ask them to test it for playability and to personally verify all the components are present, etc.

BTW, ask for Patrick Singer or Kevin. Really nice guys, I mean that. Tell them I sent you. Just ask them to take care of your business. I worked to earn over $6000 to buy their toys and feel I deserved alot more. To be honest, I would go to COSTCO where the 4806 sells for less, and the return policy is beyond reproach.

Best wishes,

Sorry. You will be disappointed in this particular expectation for reasons that will be made clear in the forthcoming article. That's all I will say for now. (You can shoot me later.)

Kal
Safety is still on, Feb issue, no article.

If I have two different displays,both with 1920 by 1080 native res connected to the 5910. One HDMI and the other DVI,what can I expect? Only one output at a time? Both outputs function fine? Or neither work unless one is unplugged or off? Setting up a somewhat elaborate system and working out the connection possibilities.thanks in advance

Sorry. You will be disappointed in this particular expectation for reasons that will be made clear in the forthcoming article. That's all I will say for now. (You can shoot me later.)

Kal

Kal,

Are you able to tell us which issue your article will appear in?

mark

The order was made & paid for BLACK Friday weekend, and delivered on the Thursday after - promp, well packed, but missing th microphone (it arrived 1/27/06). The 4806 has worked well since. The DVD arrived DOA, unable to play an AVIA calibration disk, same with other dvd's. Phone calls that Fri 12/07 or so said to await an RMA, that took almost 2 weeks to get. No one person's fault it wasn't refurbished properly, it was honestly probably a difficult problem, but all of the DENON organization; Q/A, who tested, packed all the stuff. I knew by checking that the firmware WAS NOT updated as they promised, etc.

Returning it, promises of quick returns, etc. I received it back 2 months later. After saying 1/23 I wanted a refund of $$$$ (more than now) so indeed I could buy elsewhere.

CAVEAT EMPTOR. At least ask them to test it for playability and to personally verify all the components are present, etc.
Best wishes,

Yes, when it comes to Denon fixing stuff, just take your time, don't hold your breath, go on vaction or what have you... It took me 18 MONTHS to get a satisfactory response from Denon regarding my DVD-A1 that they promised DID NOT HAVE the chroma bug but when it arrived, it DID HAVE the chroma bug. But the service I got from the engineers and so on, once you cut through their outright lies and make it clear that you know what you're talking about, was fine. Still, I did finally get the service I wanted.

Cheers.
Craig.

Does anyone know of a source for all the 'button procedures' available on the 5910 that do things like change the region code, or show the firmware version?

This thread?

If I have two different displays,both with 1920 by 1080 native res connected to the 5910. One HDMI and the other DVI,what can I expect? Only one output at a time? Both outputs function fine? Or neither work unless one is unplugged or off? Setting up a somewhat elaborate system and working out the connection possibilities.thanks in advance
Both outputs work simutaneously.
Take care :)

Has anyone compared these to 480i out a player, like the 59avi or 79avi and the newer dvdo scalers?

I also see the 59ci is due soon, 1080p from a regular dvd, nice.


I've compared 480i SDI from a Panasonic RP82 into an Iscan HD to the 5910. With most viewing material it's neck and neck. But with menu screens the 82/Iscan HD combo shows a clear advantage that I haven't figured out yet. With the 5910 highlighted menu items aren't always alligned well in addition to other chromatic anamolies. In the top menu in DVE, the menu items have an odd green shadow that bleeds into the white surrounding the characters. This isn't there with the 82. It's also easily visible in the advanced menu screens in Avia (among others). With the 82 the menu options are a uniform yellow. With the 5910 the yellow isn't uniform, it looks posterized into 2-3 bands of varying shades of yellow.

The only thing I can guess that might be the cause for the difference is the lesser MPEG decoder that Kris mentioned in his review of the 5910. So far I haven't really noticed a problem outside of menu screens though. I did notice some digitized blockiness in a couple places in Valiant. But, then I realized I had color and tint controls pumped from watching Lava Girl and Shark Boy the night before in 3D. It went away when returning the player to normal calibrated settings.

Guys,

I'm getting occasional digital noise when watching DVDs. A patch of the screen goes blue and blocky for a moment, like watching the first few seconds of a DV cassette, before the image stabilises. It occurs randomly, perhaps once every two DVDs or so. (It occured about three times while watching the 6 disc USA release of Desperate Housewives). I've tried to rewind and play back the affected area again, but the problem never reoccurs.

I was told that the 5910 was less sensitive to bad media than its predecessors so do you think I have a faulty unit? Or dirty? Denon only gave the thing to me last November after >>an eighteen month running battle with Denon (click) (http://lloydie.homeip.net/blog/blog2004.php?show=50&order=asc&mode=view) << over a faulty A1, so I don't really want to contact them for a while.

Anyone else with this issue?

Cheers.

I used to see this digitized flashing about every other disc when using the 5910's DVI output. It was just quick enough that if you weren't looking right at that part of the screen, you might not even catch it. Sort of a corner of your eye thing. Since switching to HDMI output a couple weeks ago, I have yet to see it. With DVI out, I was also having some occasional-rare video blanking at startup, where I lost picture when the disc started to play forcing me to turn the 5910 off and back on. One time I had to cycle it off and on twice to get it to finally work. But it only happened at the beginning of a disc, either in the opening trailers, menu screen, or start of the movie. it's never happend during a movie (knock on wood). It hasn't happened yet via HDMI, but it was pretty rare anyway and might have had something to do with turning on the player before the PJ. I sent Denon an email or two, but never received a response.

I will say that the 5910 has about the best error correction/buffering I've used so far. I rarely have problems with rental discs. And aside from an RP91, it is the only player I've used that can handle my defective copy of Desperado superbit without so much as a hickup. Layer changes are also greatly minimized compared to the RP82 and frequently eliminated.

Just received my DVD-A1XV(5910). Out of the box using stock settings the picture is better that the DVD-3910 it replaced. Just one word in difference. Clarity.

Through my Denon AVC-A11XV (AVR-4806) via HDMI-HDMI and the into my Marantz S3 via HDMI-DVI that picture is a lot clearer for lack of a better word than the DVD-3910. Will use AVIA on the weekend. A couple of points. I get an "Out of Range"message on my S3 when using 720p from the DVD-A1XV but turning the player off and on before using the player solves this (have seen this problem before on my S3 with a Digital set top box in the past). Secondly the unit sure clicks when you enter a DVD and it starts to play it (going by comments in this thread the clicks/or circuit switching noise is normal). The only thing from my brief use that I wish was better on the A1XV, the menu speed.

But hey picture is my Priority No.1 and that is where this player shines :) Audio via DL3 is just as sweet.

Congrats, Spizz...

Enjoy!

Wow, am I the first 5910ci owner to post?

Picked mine up on Saturday and watched couple of movies over the weekend. I replaced a 3910.

Let’s say “no surprises”. It’s a 5910 with 1080p output. We knew the 5910 was the best before, and they didn’t screw it up adding 1080p.

It’s slightly, but noticeably, sharper than the 3910 and as bug-free as the Secrets 5910 review indicated. I ran it through the HQV tests and it was nearly perfect on all counts. In particular, in the cadence tests the coffee cups were absolutely rock solid. Even on the 3910, they didn't really get jaggy but the top edges tended to flicker a bit. The racing-car scene locked on to 3:2 in a couple of frames.

It's definitely a case of diminishing returns when you get into this price category; I think the 3910 is one of the great players ever, and only those with displays like my Sony Ruby are going to really benefit from the 5910ci. It was definitely worth it for me.

The only thing it really needs is a "crappy disc mode" button on the remote that softens everything out on a transfer that's full of compression artifacts. As is so often the case in high-end A/V, it makes the flaws of low-quality material more apparent.

This is probably the best we’re ever going to wring out of standard definition DVD. It's very likely the last primary DVD player I'm going to buy.

People may say it’s silly to spend this much on a DVD player with HD/BD coming. I disagree. It’s unlikely that any HD/BD players will play DVD as well as the 5910ci since they have to make compromises to hit a price point, and people are buying them primarily for the high-def discs. Remember, we never saw a laserdisc/DVD combo player that played laser as well as Pioneer's last flagship CLD-99. It will take a lot longer to replace the DVD library with HD/BD than it did to replace VHS/laser with DVD, since the general public with 27" CRTs don't care about high-def.

KC

KC,
You may want to set one of the memory stores in the 5910 with the NR setting that Kris Deering spec'd early on in this thread for less than optimum discs.
I believe it was +1, but a quick search will find it.
I'm a late adopter of the 5910.
I've had mine for about a month and so far I have no complaints.
The pq is stellar.

can i ask where you picked up the 5910ci from

NuB Q: I may have missed something, but how do I ensure I am letting the better DAC's in the 5910 "handle" audio istead of the 4806?

Is it a matter of internal settings? Does the highest quality connection prevail based on an internal "flag" on the cd? I thought so.

I have set-up all options for connections: From DVD out via DL3, toslink and rca cables for multichannel to the AVR. Toslink from TV and Motorola 6214 III to AVR.

DVD to TV via HDMI.

STB to TV via component.

Are these the correct ways?

Today for 1st time in my 2 weeks with all the new stuff heard buzz watching TV (on all channels via STB; but not via virgin cable to TV with TV spkr) with AVR source set as TV PLIIx C + THX and changed source to DBS and fixed the buzz. All connections were tight. Now back to former w/ no buzz. What gives?


The

Norman,
I assume that by using the better DACs you mean for CD, SACD & DVD-A discs.
Whatever the RCAs plug into on the back of your 4806 should be selected as the input for playing these discs as the 5910 will perfrom the D-A conversion and output to the analog outs.
I'm not familiar with the 4806 so I can't comment on the "buzz" you're getting except was it a "buzz" or "hum".
The hum could be a ground loop issue, possibly coming through the STB coax.

I am also replacing my 3910 with the 5910 (A1XV in Europe). Getting the player saturday. I was happy with the 3910 for very long, but the new pj brutally revealed all the macroblocking and that I couldn' t live with. Looking forward to the new dvd player and it is also nice to know that if I get a 1080p capable screen or pj, the player can be upgraded to 5910ci (A1XVA) for a minimal sum.

Milt99,

Might have been more like a hum, but I don't know the diff. Anyway, gone now -- only a temporary bug.

With your prompting, I do now rember something @ those 5.1 "analogue" RCA jacks. I did set it up that way. Now I have to make sure I select the proper internal audio transfer.

Thanks

Sorry. You will be disappointed in this particular expectation for reasons that will be made clear in the forthcoming article. That's all I will say for now. (You can shoot me later.)

Kal

So...OK, in March you listen to the 3910 instead of the 5910 for reasons stated. But will you ever revisit the 5910?

So...OK, in March you listen to the 3910 instead of the 5910 for reasons stated. But will you ever revisit the 5910?

Not likely. Possibly. Don't count on it.

Kal

can i ask where you picked up the 5910ci from

Well, DENNIS, that would be Magnolia Hi-Fi :)

KC

Can someone check something for me? When I select Pure Mode ALL OFF, I get a very low "pitched" sound coming from the player. It is completly gone if I select Pure Mode NORMAL. It then turns out the culprit is the Video Out option. If it is set to OFF the sound is there, with it ON, the sound disappears. Can someone try this for me? I want to know if this is a fault or not on my player. Notice the sound is VERY discrete, but is still heard. CD or DVD played makes no difference. Just put a disc in there and turn the volume to 0 and see if you get the sound with these settings.

Thanks

EDIT: Turned on the player today and was playing cds and dvds for a few hours with no issues what so ever but eventually there was the pitched sound again, using ALL OFF or any mode with Video Out OFF.

Volvoguy,
I think I saw an edit in which you said nevermind. So now it's back? I do not get this noise with All Off or in any other mode. I Do get relay noise when I switch between modes while a disc is playing. Without a disc playing, I hear nothing while switching between modes, or in any mode selected. I am grasping at straws here but two ideas come to mind; 1)Have you tried to set the Pure Direct Memory for either Mode 1 or 2? If you have, try re-setting to the factory defaults, 2)Try disconnecting Everything except the analog outs and see if it doesn't go away. Maybe this will help isolate a bad interconnect. (told you I was grasping at straws :( ).

Here's hoping it's a temporary glitch and it goes away FOR EVER.

mark

Volvoguy,
I think I saw an edit in which you said nevermind. So now it's back? I do not get this noise with All Off or in any other mode. I Do get relay noise when I switch between modes while a disc is playing. Without a disc playing, I hear nothing while switching between modes, or in any mode selected. I am grasping at straws here but two ideas come to mind; 1)Have you tried to set the Pure Direct Memory for either Mode 1 or 2? If you have, try re-setting to the factory defaults, 2)Try disconnecting Everything except the analog outs and see if it doesn't go away. Maybe this will help isolate a bad interconnect. (told you I was grasping at straws).

Here's hoping it's a temporary glitch and it goes away FOR EVER.

mark

Yeah I thought it went away but after a while it was back so I don't know what is going on here. I think the problem appears when I change the Pure Mode. I am now checking to see if the problem appears if I start the player with ALL OFF (the way I play my cds) playing a cd at repeat continously.

Kal,

Did you ever get the modified 5910 back from Denon? and, (holding breath), if you did, did you give it listen? and if you did, would you be willing to say a few words?

By the way, I did enjoy the article, especially the DL3 and i-Link part. Happy to hear there was no sonic improvement using the DL3 or i-Link over the analog to analog direct connection. Would you mind elaborating upon your statement that "Listening this way was suboptimal because the player's and receiver's bass-management parameters are somewhat different, and the EQ would bias the observations." Are you referring to the bass parameters in the player and receiver and contrasting these with the adjustability of the MultEQxt you discuss in the last half of the article?

Thanks for your help!

mark

Did you ever get the modified 5910 back from Denon? and, (holding breath), if you did, did you give it listen? and if you did, would you be willing to say a few words?
They were never able to get a modified 5910 to me. That's why I requested the 3910; I had a deadline.

By the way, I did enjoy the article, especially the DL3 and i-Link part. Happy to hear there was no sonic improvement using the DL3 or i-Link over the analog to analog direct connection. Would you mind elaborating upon your statement that "Listening this way was suboptimal because the player's and receiver's bass-management parameters are somewhat different, and the EQ would bias the observations." Are you referring to the bass parameters in the player and receiver and contrasting these with the adjustability of the MultEQxt you discuss in the last half of the article?
Yup.

Kal

Can someone provide a quick link to Kal's new article? Thanks in advance.

Can someone provide a quick link to Kal's new article? Thanks in advance.
There is no link yet. Only in print for now. I estimate posting in about 60 days.

Kal

That would be the current issue on the stands of Stereophile?

That would be the current issue on the stands of Stereophile?
March 2006.

Kal

Is there any way of Resetting this player to default values?

In the manual under Troubleshooting. The procedure is in the box third from bottom.

Thanks Jase H :)

Is there any way of Resetting this player to default values?

Or, more specifically, setting the Pure Direct Mode back to factory defaults = :

MODE 1; DO = ON MODE 2; DO = ON
MODE 1; VO = ON MODE 2; VO = ON
MODE 1; Dis = ON MODE 2; Dis = ON

I gotta tel ya, I spent several weekends playing with settings on the 5910 to get it to match the max potential of my processor. The following may not seem in the least related to the 'problem' you are experiencing but I may not be experiencing the noise you suggest Because of the way I have the 5910 set.

Contrary to Kris Deering's recommendations, (found in his wonderful review of the 5910 in Secrets of Home Theater), in the Audio Setup Section I have Source Direct set to ON, which defaults Audio Channel to Multi Channel and have set SW + 10dB to ON within the Channel Level sub menu of Speaker Setup, (have toned down the sub level to +5 dB). On the processor side I am using Direct in for stereo which bypasses all signal processing with the exception of the volume, (gain), control. Kris's cautionary remarks about using the Source Direct = ON are of course right on; Source Direct = ON sets the speakers in the 5910's setup to Large and provides no crossover protection for smaller speakers. Oh yes, I failed to mention that I have the stereo R + L outputs of the 5910 connected to stereo CD input on the processor, (which as I mentioned is set to Direct Mode).

With regard to 5.1 surround, I have connected the 5.1 outputs of the 5910 to my 5.1 DVD Audio analog inputs on the processor, (and must switch the processor input mode to CD DVD-A. CD Direct and CD DVD-A are saved as separate presets on the processor so I just swithch back and forth between presets depending on what's coming in from the 5910)

As a final note, I make sure I switch between MULTI, or STEREO in the Super Audio CD Setup depending upon which format the disc is recorded in or in the case of hybrid, which mode I choose to listen to. If I do not do this, I lose the bennefit of the subwoofer channel all together. This is to say, that the 5910 output, say stereo, must match the CD-Stereo input mode of the processor. Likewise, If I select Multi out on the 5910, I must switch the input mode on the processor to CD-DVDA.

Yikes! :eek: I know this is probably more than you needed to know at this juncture for your particular quirk, but I am most happy to help in any way I can. I certainly hope your noise does not require the dreaded "send it in for repair" response from Denon!

(Please, anybody, let me know if my information seems innacurate, is inadvisable, or needs clarification :cool: )

mark

Began with search .... and found other players occassionally have freezing and pixelating problems after 1-2 hrs of use. ....on unblemished DVD media. ....but the next day, same scene plays fine!! A Toshiba owner said this is reported on many players after 1-2 hrs of use.

This happened on my Denon 5910, on only the 7th movie watched since its refurbishment. I have always only watched 1 DVD at a time, but last night saw 2, after about 2-3 hrs of use this failure occurred. In fact, 1st movie was fine, but 1 hr into "Red Eye", freezing and pixelating occurred. Same movie played perfectly well Thursday night during whole playback. It was the only DVD played that night. The troubled scenes played well this morning.

Is this par for the course? Or should I send it back? I can't believe a top end player would not play FLAWLESSLY!!!!!!!!!

Began with search .... and found other players occassionally have freezing and pixelating problems after 1-2 hrs of use. ....on unblemished DVD media. ....but the next day, same scene plays fine!! A Toshiba owner said this is reported on many players after 1-2 hrs of use.

This happened on my Denon 5910, on only the 7th movie watched since its refurbishment. I have always only watched 1 DVD at a time, but last night saw 2, after about 2-3 hrs of use this failure occurred. In fact, 1st movie was fine, but 1 hr into "Red Eye", freezing and pixelating occurred. Same movie played perfectly well Thursday night during whole playback. It was the only DVD played that night. The troubled scenes played well this morning.

Is this par for the course? Or should I send it back? I can't believe a top end player would not play FLAWLESSLY!!!!!!!!!

I have never owned a DVD player that showed this behavior and that includes a boat load full, everything from the first RCA DVD player on DVD launch date to Pioneer Elites to my Fav Panny RP91 and everything in between(over 50)

this does concern me though as I had my eye on the 5910 as my last DVD player before my retirement of the format

-Gary

I've had no problems like that with mine...

You probably have a bad unit..

Gary, I wouldn't let this stop you.

I've had no problems like that with mine...

You probably have a bad unit..

Gary, I wouldn't let this stop you.

Ditto--mine plays flawlessly. I would return the defective unit.

Just got my 5910ci hooked up this morning....

Replaced Denon 3910 that was running DVI at 1080i.

Hooked up HDMI to Sony VPL100 Ruby. Running at 1080p / HDMI Comp. Audio feeding Denon 5805 via Denon Link.

Ruby is ISF calibrated.

Initial impressions: It definitely seems a hair sharper. The color reproduction seems the same, maybe a little more saturated on the 5910, but the 5910 still needs to be calibrated.

But the biggest difference to my eyes is in the stability of the image. I know that the Ruby has an excellent de-interlacer, but going in at 1080/60 appears to give it a more rock solid look.. can't explaing it, but, on a subjecrtive note, the image seems more locked onto the screen. It is almost, to me, like the differnce in looking at 35mm film on a good projector and 70mm on a screen (I know that seeing this is a rarity now a days)... it's like the 3910 had some registration judder and the 5910 has a rock solid image...

Since I am using DL3, there is no audio gain over the 3910... I am sure that the analog is a huge step up.

I am sure the question for everybody will be if it is a worthwhile upgrade from the 3910. At a $2,000 (over 130%) premium over the 3910, I don't think that many will feel that it is a major enough improvement worht that differnce in price, especially since you could buy an HD DVD AND BluRay player for the saved change... It's definitely the best DVD player I've owned, and I will get some more quality time with it in the next couple of weeks... I am in a little bit of a special situation since I got an amazing deal on the player, and I am not the least bit unhappy with the purchase.

Hey, I have a quick question for this great thread :)

I did a little searching and only came up with one or 2 comments

has anyone compared the:

5910
to
a DVDO/Lumagen scaler with SDI DVD from one of the Panasonic classic's(RP91/RP82 etc)

Boy I would love to hear that :)

I currently have the later feeding my 9" CRT Rear PJ TV, but really have no use for the scaler as it is only used for the SDI DVD playback

everyones glowing reviews and praise from Kris have me close to pulling the trigger on a b-stock from a authorized dealer

-Gary

I've got a 5910 and an SDI modded RP82/Iscan HD combo. And have compared the two systems feeding a 720p DLP pj and now a 1080p SXRD pj. At 720p they were neck and neck for the most part. Really, I had a hard time telling a difference switching back and forth between the two on a very revealing 92" Silverstar screen. Feeding 1080i to the SXRD, I'm getting some y/c delay on red with the 5910 that the 82/Iscan combo doesn't have. I haven't completely ruled out the scaling in the display as the cause for the delay, but it appears to be from the Denon. I've got a VP30 on order, so hopefully, I'll be able to correct y/c delay and confirm a few things then. I'm a little disappointed that the 5910 doesn't have y/c adjustment built-in. I'm also disappointed that it didn't support 1080p and 480i output digitally. Though, an upgrade should soon rectify the 1080p part at least. Also, inexcusably missing from the 5910 is a vertical stretch mode for non-anamorphic dvds. If you have any non-anamorphic discs, you have to either watch them window boxed in the middle of your screen or use one of the very poor zoom functions in the player that are not designed for actual use, as they horribly degrade image quality and do not optimize 4:3 letterboxed to fit 16:9 screens without cutting off part of the picture. The vertical stretch mode available in the Iscan products is excellent at making 4:3 letterboxed achieve its full potential on 16:9 screens.

The 82/Iscan combo is more flexible in terms of calibration to some extent. But, the 5910 has several features the Iscan doesn't that I've also found pretty useful; including gamma, a sharpness adjustment that actually works with digital signals, and very good DNR. The 5910 also has much better error correction than the 82. Discs that give the 82 a fit, play flawlessly with the 5910. It's a much better choice for rentals. And, layer changes are greatly minimized with the 5910. Where about the only discs you won't see the layer change on with the 82 are superbits (superbits are encoded for seamless layer changes), DVD5s (single layer discs), DVD10s (2 layers but read from opposite sides-flippers), and the single layer side of DVD14s (3 layers, 2 on one side, 1 on the other). That said, I used to own an rp91 (not sdi modded like the 82 is) and it also had excellent error correction. The 91 will do about as good a job with problem discs, but is still not as good with layer changes as the 5910.

(It's not critical, just a bit irritating..)

the non anamorphic issue is a deal breaker for me :(

Thanks Chad for your opinions :)

-Gary

Don't get me wrong. I would tend to agree with Kris' assertion that the 5910 is to date the best overall player made. But, it's not the end all be all of sd-dvd. And, some of the lapses in design are somewhat puzzling for a flagship piece from Denon. But, I tend to hold Denon to a higher standard than most player manufacturers, as they've proved in the past that they are up to the challenge. With most companies you might as well not even waste your breath as you know it'll fall on deaf ears.

Courtesy of Kal, I just learned me a new word, pluripotent.
I looked it up, it's meaning was not what I thought it would be.
Nice one.
Thankee. ;)

Kal- When will the article be online to read?

FilmMixer- It has been said that with poorer quality DVDs the Ruby makes them look worse than a DLP would. However does this still hold true when you are using the DVD-5910 hooked up to the Ruby?

I have seen 3910 1080i hdmi and 5910 1080i hdmi to Ruby . The immediate difference to my untrained eyes is day and night . Picture more solid(inclusive black) and stable on 5910. More sharp (sharpness untouch) without introducing EE . Background especially scenery is clean and stable unlike 3910 is a bit noisy and grainy sometimes . Even the colours looks nicer .

what the opinion on picking up one of these 5910's from a authorized online B-Stock dealer??

there are some killer deals out there by going that route, some with 90 days warranty, others with a full 1 year

I have saw a few opinions that don't sound very good(concerning dakmart)
anyone else picked up a B-stock 5910??

-Gary

Kal
FilmMixer- It has been said that with poorer quality DVDs the Ruby makes them look worse than a DLP would.

It's only because of the bad internal video processing of the Ruby. Bypassing it by sending 1080p (not 1080i) from a Realta or Gennum scaler is alot better.

what the opinion on picking up one of these 5910's from a authorized online B-Stock dealer??

there are some killer deals out there by going that route, some with 90 days warranty, others with a full 1 year

I have saw a few opinions that don't sound very good(concerning dakmart)
anyone else picked up a B-stock 5910??

-Gary
Yeah, I read the same bad review of Dakmart so I went with one of the other authorized online B-stock dealers and got an additional 1-year warranty for $45. I'll be sure to post my impressions when the 5910 arrives next week. :cool:

Kal- When will the article be online to read?


?? Whenever. Not under my control.

Kal

please do Scott :)

I have a offer for a brand new sealed 5910 for a great price and I am going to take it, can't wait to get this player

-Gary

If even a tenth of what I've read about the DVD-5910 is true it will be an ideal match for my ScreenPlay 333. :cool:

sold my 5910 a few weeks back in desperation to raise cash, changed my mind on future plans and reordered the player since I knew I wouldnt be happy with anything else unless it was a top notch player with an external scaler, my new player arrived last friday but its the upgraded 5910 CI , I was once again reminded why I purchased this player in the first place, great video from dvds that we have NOW!!, I was once again reminded of the build quality once I took it out of the box ...50lb universal player... ouch!!!

I think that's why I decided to bite the bullet and spend the extra $$$ to get the DVD-5910 instead of the DVD-3910 (although buying a refurbished player made the leap a bit less painful). The way I figure it, the 5910's superior upconversion and video processing saves me the added complexity of a scaler with nearly equivalent performance to an SDI player+scaler. I'm hoping the DVD-5910 will be the last standard definition DVD player I'll ever buy.

Scott I am hearing most if not all say that this player is better than SDI+Scaler, that is my current setup but I decided to dump my scaler since I only use it for DVD and I don't really need it
Ideally this would be my last standard DVD player I ever buy, that is my plan also :)

I have went thru just about the entire thread but I wanted to ask one more thing guys

I have no interest in 1080p ability, is there any specific build date or firmware version I need to look for when buying in the next few days or so?? does that matter if I don't need 1080p??

I will be using this unit at 1080i into my 9" CRT Mits RPTV

thanks for the help

-Gary

The latest production 5910 models are the "CI" units, to be able to tell all you have to do is to turn on the unit and it will say "5910 CI" Gary in regards to your question about not needing 1080p, if you get a unit that has the "CI" designation is almost identical to a unit that does not have the 1080p capability, in which case if you dont need it you just dont set the unit for 1080p. I saw some of your troubles you were having with your new vp30 scaler, I hope you get that straightened out, either setup should yield you great results, the trouble is once you get a 5910 its not really practical to use and outboard scaler unless your scaling and processing hd sources, it would be interesting to find someone who has used the 5910 with a videoprocessor that uses the realta or gennum chip.

funlvr, thanks for the info
I will be selling my VP30 to pay for the 5910, I only use the scaler for DVD anyways, I have given up on HD for the time being due to picture quality issues(bitrate/resolution), no HD is better to me that the current state of stuff from dish/directv :(

after the latest DVDO update released yesterday the unit is perfect in just about every way(all problems corrected), I think I will put it(with SDI card) on the display devices for sale forum here at AVS in a few days

-Gary

Gary best of luck with your changeover, do you have a dealer in mind already for the 5910/ I would be sure to purchase from an authorized dealer, something this pricey is not to be trifled with when it comes to qualifiying for warranty, welcome to the club and let us know your findings once you get the player

AFAIR, there was only one firmware update that addressed a problem with I think a Rick Springfield disc or something weird like that.

So, Gary since you are a huge Springfield fan you will want the firmware update fer sure ;)

BTW, for you guys just ordering your 5910's, I've had mine for about a month.
I upgraded from a 5900 so Denon has made their money on me.
So far I couldn't be happier. The beast is really expensive but it is sooo nice.
Outstanding everything.

I sold my 5900 to a friend who had an old Toshiba. He couldn't be happier as well.
Loves the PQ and SQ of the 5900.

will do Funlvr, thanks guys :)

also thanks for the info Milt

I have a offer that I cannot resist from a authorized dealer, a brand new sealed unit for the same price as a b-stock, I think I will get him to ship it 2 day UPS Air or overnight if it won't cost too much :D :D

can't wait to get it and I will be sure and let everyone know how it is

-Gary

funlvr, thanks for the info
I will be selling my VP30 to pay for the 5910, I only use the scaler for DVD anyways, I have given up on HD for the time being due to picture quality issues(bitrate/resolution), no HD is better to me that the current state of stuff from dish/directv :(

after the latest DVDO update released yesterday the unit is perfect in just about every way(all problems corrected), I think I will put it(with SDI card) on the display devices for sale forum here at AVS in a few days

-Gary
Will you sell the your VP30 and SDI DVD player before you buy your DVD-5910? Not that it will change my mind about my purchase (a little late for that now!) but I'm sure many people would be interested in hearing about a direct A/B comparison between the 5910 and an SDI player+scaler.

I did a similar A/B comparison a few days ago between an HTPC outputting 1280x720 (which would presumably have somewhat similar performance to a decent SDI player+scaler) and the DVD-3910 outputting 720p, and I honestly couldn't tell the difference between the two except on a couple of scenes during the SuperBit version of The Fifth Element. So the way I see it, with the refurbished DVD-5910 I'm (hopefully!) getting what most people would probably argee is an even better picture than the DVD-3910, for less than the cost of a good SDI scaler+player.

Gary...

I believe there are some other improvements in the upgrade on the 5910--not just 1080p...

Someone else will recall specifics, or read back a few pages...something to do with the scaler or the deinterlacer, just can't recall....

Gary also try to leave kris deering a pm and ask him for the optimal settings for the 5910, in his review he had optimal results setting the noise reduction, contrast and enhanced settings, I reinstalled these settings in the new player but honestly cant remember exactly what they were so its best to check with him, "Moohawk" if there are new improvements in the "CI" version of the player its news to me but entirely possible, if you find out for sure please let us know

I think someone did say the newer 5910 had a different chip in it, not sure if it was scaler I/P etc or what was involved if at all

Scott I have compared SDI/Scaler dvd to HTPC, the HTPC was a great unit(I used to be in the whole HTPC game, spent days upon weeks tweaking :mad: ) the SDI/Scaler setup easily beat the HTPC, as a matter of fact a few upscaling DVD players around 400$ have beat a HTPC I had, SDI/Scaler of course beat those

I will be very interested to see the 5910, if Kris says it is the best DVD playback he has seen then that says something, he has had his hands on so many toys

I fully expect the 5910 to be the king of DVD images I have seen, I am one picky SOB when it comes to video quality, we shall see :)

-Gary

The Ruby's internal scaler does introduce some mild artifacting. I wouldn't call it bad, but it's not DVDo, Faroudja, or HQV. Feeding the Ruby 1080p, bypassing the internal scaler, is definately its sweetspot.

Spizz, feeding the Ruby 1080p, I've found just the opposite to be true. My 720p DLP has absolutey nothing on the Ruby in it's a ability to render SD sources well on large screens.

Depending on the scaler of course, SDI/scaler combos will likely offer a little more flexibility than the 5910. But the 5910 offers a couple useful features that the VP30 doesn't. The 5910 is a little better than DVDo at deinterlacing video. But with film the two solutions are probably too close to call.

I hate to burst your bubble guys but I have owned 3 different 5910's and yes they are good but I have sold all of them and kept an Oppo dvd player.
If you ever put them side by side you have to ask yourself if you see a $2000.00 difference,especially with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray coming on board.
I can tell you aside from the build quality of the 5910 and the ego boost that you have something with a HQV processor in it it is all hype.Try the Oppo!

We are coming to the conclusion of a really cool high end installation here in Minnesota. One the highlights( of course there are highlights, I designed it :) ) is a 5910. We bought a unit that should be firmware only upgrade. Since we are using it with a Qualia 004 with the 1080p upgrade, I am anxious to get the update. Has anyone done any checking lately on when Denon is going to make it available? I looked on their site and found nothing pertaining to it. Thanks Dallas

How's that OPPO with CDs, DVDAs, and SACDs.....?

Thought so.

Dakmart told me that any Denon 5910 can be sent in to Denon for the fix, the price is 299$

Stevie, I have no doubt that the oppo may have a killer picture

but I have had it with cheap junk Chinese dvd players(not sure where the oppo is made), I have owned them all, NeuNeo, Momitsu etc, they were all crap(not speaking of picture quality) they all wound up in the junk bin

-Gary

[QUOTE=moonhawk]How's that OPPO with CDs, DVDAs, and SACDs.....?

I have to agree if your really into sacd etc. and audio the 5910 is the way to go.
All I am really interested in is the picture quality and that is what I was talking about.
Besides I think with the introduction of dts-hd and dolby hd plus all those formats will be passe fairly soon.
I also understand about the other players you mentioned Gary but as far as picture quality their is not a $2000 difference in my opinion.It is one very impressive overbuilt player though if you like that sort of thing.

there has got to be a happy medium somewhere, sadly there isn't much to choose from, too many higher end macroblocking players, too many cheaper players with crap build quality
Pioneer elites would be sweet, but they still aren't up to snuff, the same old sad story

no other player has this HQV stuff either

it all add's up to the DVD-5910 being the only choice(in standalone well built DVD players with no picture quality concerns)

-Gary

MoonHawk you beat me to it!

I appreciate the PQ of the Oppo and by all accounts if mated with a $2k scaler it is the equal of the 5910, but the current model does not have HDMI and my display does not have DVI.
If I was smart I would have waited for the Oppo 970 w\HDMI and the Gennum upgrade for my D1 BUT I didn't.

I do have a sizeable collection of SACDs, DVD-A and CDs and mine at least are not going away anytime soon.
I bought the 5910 as much for the audio side as the video side. The 5900 was no slouch for audio and the 5910 is marginally better but imo when you get to this level small improvements are the icing on the cake.

Videowise, the 5910 is so clear, natural and sharp it looks stunning even on small displays. When my HT room is done, I think I'll be happier still.

People have been talking Hi-Def DVDs replacing SD DVD "right around the corner" for the last 2 years. In fact look back to the beginning of this thread, people were trumpeting the same mantra, "why waste your money on this over-built battleship, Hi-Def will be here in a couple weeks\months 6 months" take your pick.
As of now no announced player BRD or HD-DVD does what the 5910 can do with SD-DVD and audio. I'm suspecting I will be buying a Hi-Def DVD player very soon, like 18 months or so when things settle down and a full featured player from oh say Denon or whomever gets the KD stamp of approval.

^^^ Exactly. Until this stupid high-def DVD format war burns itself out, I think I will be very happy with my DVD-5910.

I agree 100%, there will always be the new HD optical formats looming and when they are finally released if anyone thinks those units will have as good SD DVD playback as the 5910, then they are smoking some strong crack ;)

why deny ourselves top notch DVD playback?? I have over 800 titles that won't be replaced by their HD counterparts for many many years, the build quality of the Denon should ensure this unit makes it until then, because I have no intention of replacing this unit with another SD DVD player

just my take

-Gary

If I was smart I would have waited for the Oppo 970 w\HDMI and the Gennum upgrade for my D1 BUT I didn't.


I can tell you that you should have done that... ;) :D

Just had to rub it in huh?
Darth Levesque ;)
Had a 5910 and went to the Pioneer side, man what happened?

I've had a feeling for awhile that separate players for video and audio were a logical
way to go since with a good outboard processor, all the player needs to do is feed an unpolluted data stream.
I had planned on getting the 79-AVi until it's shortcomings were revealed.
A video transport like this should be cheap, like the Oppo.
But someone still has to make one.

Actually, I will still get the upgrade to the D1 but I won't be so anxious now.
What I really want from Anthem is room EQ and some details on their rumored
digital transport. It will have to be hi-def of some sort to be relevant.
Sorry for the OT.

anyone tried some Verbatim Dual Layer on this baby ?? I transfer alot of my DVD's to blank media to protect them from use and I was wondering how Dual Layers work on the 5910, the only ones worth using are the Verbatim's though

-Gary

anyone tried some Verbatim Dual Layer on this baby ?? I transfer alot of my DVD's to blank media to protect them from use and I was wondering how Dual Layers work on the 5910, the only ones worth using are the Verbatim's though

-Gary

Verbatim +DL work great on my 3910. Stay away from the Memorex aka Ritek +DLs though.

Hi

I wonder if anybody has any experience with HDMI connection between the Sanyo Z4 projector and Denon 5910? I have just received a DVD-A1XVA (European model 1080p ready) and are experiencing that when setting the projector to 0 overscan the picture on PAL disc and NTSC discs does not cover the whole picture area (ie “underscan”). Om PAL discs there are 5/6 black pixels left and right and 2/3 black pixels on the bottom of the picture. On NTSC discs the picture is shifted to the right 10/12 black pixels on the left side 4/5 black pixels at the bottom and zero at the top and right side. Have you experienced something simular? It seems like the scaler is not scaling properly. I can of course turn on the overscan on the projector but much of the point of buying a player with the DVDO scaler integrated is to omit the projectors scaler.

Hi again

This is a question to Kris Deering and others with lot of experience with various Denon and other DVD players. Before jumping on the DVD-A1XVA wagon I tried 3910 and 2910 even cheep Toshiba player all with HDMI connection. One thing I experienced was that subtitles and menus on the Denon players (also the DVD-A1XVA) all had form of shadow on the left side of subtitles and menu items. This is most visible on red/brown picture background were the shadow is greenish. Close up over 2 pixels wide and clearly visible from my viewing distance

The cheep Toshiba did not have this shadow effect. The picture otherwise is superb on all the Denon players (with a small and expensive (since I bought it) advantage to the A1XVA) and I can not see this kind if shadow effect in sharp transitions in film frame.

. Have you any explanation to this? I have not seen it discussed in this tread, I have seen it discussed in other forums regarding the cheaper Denon models wotout any answers. Is it a Denon artefact or have I seen 4 bad samples of Denon players?

Gary,
I use Verbatim single and dual layers on both my former 5900 and 5910 with no problems ever.

The overlay function of the MPEG decoder is just shifted. You should see how bad this is on the Krell Showcase DVD player, ugh. Every player is a little different in this regard.

Hi again

This is a question to Kris Deering and others with lot of experience with various Denon and other DVD players. Before jumping on the DVD-A1XVA wagon I tried 3910 and 2910 even cheep Toshiba player all with HDMI connection. One thing I experienced was that subtitles and menus on the Denon players (also the DVD-A1XVA) all had form of shadow on the left side of subtitles and menu items. This is most visible on red/brown picture background were the shadow is greenish. Close up over 2 pixels wide and clearly visible from my viewing distance

The cheep Toshiba did not have this shadow effect. The picture otherwise is superb on all the Denon players (with a small and expensive (since I bought it) advantage to the A1XVA) and I can not see this kind if shadow effect in sharp transitions in film frame.

. Have you any explanation to this? I have not seen it discussed in this tread, I have seen it discussed in other forums regarding the cheaper Denon models wotout any answers. Is it a Denon artefact or have I seen 4 bad samples of Denon players?


I just started noticing this exact same effect with my 3910. If there is a red background behind the white subtitles, there is indeed a greenish shadow to the left of the subtitles. I think this must have something to do with the Faroudja processing. When the background color is anything but red, the subtitles look fine.

thanks for the reports

the Memorex are garbage for DVD playback and that is a fact :mad:

Verbatims are down to 2$ and that includes jewel case(which is how I store my DVD's), not too bad

-Gary

Kris can you please repost your optimal settings for the 5910, I recently received the
5910 CI and want to be sure my settings are correct, also are you finding any improvements in the newer version of the player over the previous version?
thanks in advance, if you answer me here and see my pm just delete

Nice setup funlver!

Kris can you please repost your optimal settings for the 5910, I recently received the
5910 CI and want to be sure my settings are correct, also are you finding any improvements in the newer version of the player over the previous version?
thanks in advance, if you answer me here and see my pm just delete

Thought I might pass along Kris' review of the 5910. It has been very helpful in my struggle to set up the 5910 to achieve the maximum output of both audio & video in my system. Taken together with the manual I finally figured it all out. Humble apologies if you already have these nailed down.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/denon-dvd-5910-dvd-player-4-2005-part-1.html

AND

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/denon-dvd-5910-dvd-player-4-2005-part-2.html

Thanks Kris, means a lot coming from someone like yourself and thanks for returning my pm


Nice setup funlver!

I can't wait to get my hands on the Gamma adjustments ;)
CRT displays often suffer from gamma problems in the lower range, adjustment of gamma is one of the big reasons I am looking to this player :)

-Gary

The overlay function of the MPEG decoder is just shifted. You should see how bad this is on the Krell Showcase DVD player, ugh. Every player is a little different in this regard.

Thanks for the response Kris. Is this a player sample variation or is this a design flaw, were Denon is worse than others?

Do you Kris have any comments to my underscan problem reported in the post prior to the post regarding the subtitles?

Hi all,

Yesterday I went to a shop and I had a look at the 5910 connected (HDMI) to a Pioneer 436 plasma.

We played some dvd's and I believe I could see macro-blocking, I am not sure because the lights in the shop made it impossible to have a really good look at it.

My question to the owners of this dvd-player:

What are your experiences with this player regarding macro-blocking? Have you seen it while playing dvd's or is the picture always clear from macro-blocking?


Edwin

Thanks Kris, means a lot coming from someone like yourself and thanks for returning my pm
Yes it is nice, but I think this is the second time I've asked to move the gear from the sig to the profile. Gear in sigs is counter to forum policy. I ask because you can easily cut/paste now rather than I just report it and it gets deleted and you have to type it in again. :) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6930498&&#post6930498

thanks,
larry

Hi all,

Yesterday I went to a shop and I had a look at the 5910 connected (HDMI) to a Pioneer 436 plasma.

We played some dvd's and I believe I could see macro-blocking, I am not sure because the lights in the shop made it impossible to have a really good look at it.

My question to the owners of this dvd-player:

What are your experiences with this player regarding macro-blocking? Have you seen it while playing dvd's or is the picture always clear from macro-blocking?


Edwin

The 5910 has absolutely no issues with Macroblocking whatsoever. If you saw macroblocking it was either inherent in the source (DVD) or it was an issue with the plasma (which is probably the reason since most plasmas have all kinds of nasty issues because of low bit processing).

thanks for the reports

the Memorex are garbage for DVD playback and that is a fact :mad:

Verbatims are down to 2$ and that includes jewel case(which is how I store my DVD's), not too bad

-Gary

I have pretty much been a consistent Verbatim (single and DL) user, but decided to try the Memorex DL since BestBuy regularly have them on sale. My experience is that if burned at a slow speed (2.4X), the Memorex appear to playback just fine on a number of DVD players. But, if burned at any higher speed, "your mileage may vary" :p.

OBW, where are you finding Verbatim DL for $2? OfficeMax had them on sale for that amount a few weeks ago, but I have not seen them at that price again.

web

Web you can order the Verbatim dual layer's online for 2.30$ any day, they come with a jewel case(which is how I store my dvd's) so that is worth .30$ to me, hence my 2.00$ saying :D

-Gary

I would like to know if anybody with a 5910 has done the upgrade to 5910Ci (w/ 1080p output) and if there are any perceptible changes in pic quality or other after the upgrade.
I can have my player upgraded but can't use the 1080p output right now, so I was wondering if there are any other benefits making the upgrade.
Is the firmware a new version, specific to the 5910Ci player?

Thank you.

**grumble** It looks like I may not be doing an A/B comparison after all. It turns out that the salesperson at the authorized Denon on-line retailer where I ordered my refurbished DVD-5910 told me a fib. When I placed my order he said that they would have a refurbished DVD-5910 in stock by today, but now I am being told that they don't actually have any concept of when a refrubished DVD-5910 will arrive and it's on indefinite backorder.

So now I have a decision to make... do I Wait (im)patiently for the backorder to be filled? Cancel the DVD-5910 backorder and go back to my original idea of getting the DVD-3910? Go back to the idea before that and buy an SDI player+scaler? Bite the bullet and pay full price for a new DVD-5910?Frankly the economics don't make sense to me for the last option--for the price of a brand-new DVD-5910 I could get the Lumagen VisionHDP SDI-modified scaler and an SDI-modified DVD player and still come out several hundred dollars ahead. And for the half the price of the Lumagen scaler/player I could get the DVD-3910... and as I said before in another thread, I couldn't really tell the difference in picture quality between a 3910 and an HTPC, which presumably has similar performance characteristics to an SDI player+scaler.

ARRGH. I hate lying salespeople. I think I'll wait until the basement theater is completely finished (which is a week from today... yippee!!). If the refurbished DVD-5910 is still on infinite B/O, I'll probably just cancel it and go with a new DVD-3910.

Go back to the idea before that and buy an SDI player+scaler? Best option, especially looking forward. 480i via HDMI player is an option too instead of modding an existing player. 3910 is cheapest current solution. However, if you are going to lock into a 480p/720p/1080i only solution, you might consider a 59avi and save some money (given you're punting on the 5910).

larry

If you're referring to the Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi, I wasn't particularly impressed with the review it got at the Secrets (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all#Pioneer%20EliteDV-59AVi%20(HDMI)) website, and besides, I swore I'd never buy another Pioneer product ever again after suffering their LD-S1 laserdisc player.

Well, to each their own. 59avi and 3910 owners here are quite happy. However, if you look at the 3910 thread(s), you'll see more problems reported.

larry

As much as I'd love to own the 5910, smart money would say to get a 480i HMDI player and one of those new Vantage-HD scalers with the same HQV processing as the 5910 plus the added flexibility of scaling. Of course, this negates any of the 5910s audio options.

I agree Sam, but those scalers are not here yet, nor are they cheap, and I, like Scott, have no need for a scaler(other than DVD playback)

Scott eat beans for a few weeks and stick with the 5910, everything else seems to have issues, the biggest being macroblocking, from what I read about the 5910 it seems to have no issues or (most important)picture compromises, the trouble is scoring one for a great price :mad:

I would not own another DVD player from Pioneer either, my God!! how long does it take for a company to get their DVD act together

-Gary

I agree Sam, but those scalers are not here yet, nor are they cheap, and I, like Scott, have no need for a scaler(other than DVD playback)

Scott eat beans for a few weeks and stick with the 5910, everything else seems to have issues, the biggest being macroblocking, from what I read about the 5910 it seems to have no issues or (most important)picture compromises, the trouble is scoring one for a great price :mad:

I would not own another DVD player from Pioneer either, my God!! how long does it take for a company to get their DVD act together

-Gary

Gary,

Vantage HD w/Realta HQV already shipping:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=649108

I'm like you though, only a Mits RPTV, so 5910 would be the ultimate 480p playback machine for me. Right, now I'm stuck with my 3910 ;)

Like Kris Deering said, it woulda been nice to have some video inputs on the 5910.

"Stuck with" a 3910? It seems to me that it's the next best thing to a DVD-5910. And I thought the 3910 didn't suffer from macroblocking either...?

I might have settled for a 3910, as a matter of fact prolly could have been happy with it and saved some change over the 5910 BUT it has macroblocking and from the reviews 1080i is the worst
I would have tried a Oppo also but the same thing, macroblocking

I have seen macroblocking before on my CRT displays and it ain't pretty :(

-Gary

Sorry, should have been more specific... the DVD-3910 doesn't have macroblocking at 720p over DVI/HDMI, which is the only resolution I care about.

"Stuck with" a 3910? It seems to me that it's the next best thing to a DVD-5910. And I thought the 3910 didn't suffer from macroblocking either...?


I was being sarcastic, hence the ;) in my post.

I've only seen MB one time with my 3910, and it was the infamous Bugs Life CH 22 scene. Other than that, nada.

If I could audition the 5910 in my home to hear how much of an improvement the audio would be, then I would consider it more strongly. I can't imagine the 480p performance of the 5910 to be substantially improved over my 3910, so that's why I haven't upgraded.

Sam,
I used to have a 5900 which the 3910 replaced.
Although the build quality of the 5900 is better than the 3910 I believe they are the same as far as video.

In my current setup the 5910 is much better for video than the 5900 was.
Whether it's worth the upgrade price is up to the viewer but there is no doubt in my mind about the differences.

As far as audio between the 5900 and the 5910, not as much of a difference but so far the 5910 is superior in that realm as well.

Again whether the price of admission is justified is up to the individual.
As I stated earlier, it would have been more fiscally prudent for me to keep the 5900 for audio, upgrade my D1 and use an HDMI equipped transport like the upcoming Oppo for video but sometimes I'm a sucker for statement pieces.

I was being sarcastic, hence the ;) in my post.

I've only seen MB one time with my 3910, and it was the infamous Bugs Life CH 22 scene. Other than that, nada.

If I could audition the 5910 in my home to hear how much of an improvement the audio would be, then I would consider it more strongly. I can't imagine the 480p performance of the 5910 to be substantially improved over my 3910, so that's why I haven't upgraded.
Tell you what... if I don't get my refurbished DVD-5910 by next weekend, I'll see if I can find a nearby bricks-and-mortar Denon retailer that has a liberal return policy and I'll buy a new 3910 and 5910 for an in-home A/B comparison with my ScreenPlay 333 720p projector. If I can honestly see the difference in picture quality and hear the difference in sound quality with the 5910, I'll return the DVD-3910. Otherwise, the 5910 goes back. And of course, I will post my results here for all to enjoy (or heckle).

How's that sound?

As much as I'd love to own the 5910, smart money would say to get a 480i HMDI player and one of those new Vantage-HD scalers with the same HQV processing as the 5910 plus the added flexibility of scaling. Of course, this negates any of the 5910s audio options.


That was my analysis too.
Now to be patient waiting for an HQV scaler.... :)

Scott you could prolly find a dealer that would let you take the players home for one evening, just so you wouldn't have to purchase them

-Gary

Scott,
You're doing it the smart way.
BTW, I'm betting you'll see a difference, especially on a big screen.
You may want to search this thread for Kris Deering's settings for the 5910.
I've been too lazy to do it yet.

Hi

I wonder if anybody has any experience with HDMI connection between the Sanyo Z4 projector and Denon 5910? I have just received a DVD-A1XVA (European model 1080p ready) and are experiencing that when setting the projector to 0 overscan the picture on PAL disc and NTSC discs does not cover the whole picture area (ie “underscan”). Om PAL discs there are 5/6 black pixels left and right and 2/3 black pixels on the bottom of the picture. On NTSC discs the picture is shifted to the right 10/12 black pixels on the left side 4/5 black pixels at the bottom and zero at the top and right side. Have you experienced something simular? It seems like the scaler is not scaling properly. I can of course turn on the overscan on the projector but much of the point of buying a player with the DVDO scaler integrated is to omit the projectors scaler.

Noone had similar problems?

Hi again

This is a question to Kris Deering and others with lot of experience with various Denon and other DVD players. Before jumping on the DVD-A1XVA wagon I tried 3910 and 2910 even cheep Toshiba player all with HDMI connection. One thing I experienced was that subtitles and menus on the Denon players (also the DVD-A1XVA) all had form of shadow on the left side of subtitles and menu items. This is most visible on red/brown picture background were the shadow is greenish. Close up over 2 pixels wide and clearly visible from my viewing distance

The cheep Toshiba did not have this shadow effect. The picture otherwise is superb on all the Denon players (with a small and expensive (since I bought it) advantage to the A1XVA) and I can not see this kind if shadow effect in sharp transitions in film frame.

. Have you any explanation to this? I have not seen it discussed in this tread, I have seen it discussed in other forums regarding the cheaper Denon models wotout any answers. Is it a Denon artefact or have I seen 4 bad samples of Denon players?

Kr The overlay function of the MPEG decoder is just shifted. You should see how bad this is on the Krell Showcase DVD player, ugh. Every player is a little different in this regard.

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Thanks for the response Kris. Is this a player sample variation or is this a design flaw, were Denon is worse than others?

Do you Kris have any comments to my underscan problem reported in the post prior to the post regarding the subtitles?

Others have knowledge about this?

Scott,
You're doing it the smart way.
BTW, I'm betting you'll see a difference, especially on a big screen.
You may want to search this thread for Kris Deering's settings for the 5910.
I've been too lazy to do it yet.
Thanks... I'm very familiar with the excellent article Kris wrote (it was one of the key factors in my decision to spend the extra $500 to get a refurbed DVD-5910).

Tell you what... if I don't get my refurbished DVD-5910 by next weekend, I'll see if I can find a nearby bricks-and-mortar Denon retailer that has a liberal return policy and I'll buy a new 3910 and 5910 for an in-home A/B comparison with my ScreenPlay 333 720p projector. If I can honestly see the difference in picture quality and hear the difference in sound quality with the 5910, I'll return the DVD-3910. Otherwise, the 5910 goes back. And of course, I will post my results here for all to enjoy (or heckle).

How's that sound?

Sounds good. I look forward to your comparisions.

Scott,
Idle curiosity here.
I saw the thread on the PJ you have.
Sounds interesting.
What kind of cable are you using for DVD and other sources like satellite\cable.

DVD and DirecTV hi-def TiVo go into my Outlaw 990 which switches DVI-D. The Outlaw 990 is connected to the projector with a DVI-D cable that terminates in a DVI-D to M1-DA adapter, and the adapter is connected to the M1-DA digital input of the InFocus ScreenPlay 333.

Sorry, should have been more specific... the DVD-3910 doesn't have macroblocking at 720p over DVI/HDMI, which is the only resolution I care about.


From my personal experience with the 3910 I can tell you that it has, unfortunately, macro-blocking over HDMI (including 720p).

^^^ Odd, that's not what two different reviews have said. Oh well, I will soon see for myself. I've already spent $70,000+ on my "no compromises" home theater... what's another $2,000 to avoid macroblocking?

Some of you guys are WAY out of my league.....:D

Wow Scott, you got me beat by about 40,000$ ;)

-Gary

Yeah, but a large chunk of that is construction costs.

Yeah, but a large chunk of that is construction costs.

and those can add up quick, I had a perfect room in my home that cost me a total of 0$ :)

Scott please let us know how the 5910 is, I have recently got my VP30 and SDI dvd playback going and boy oh I do not fill the need to pickup the 5910 now, I have never seen a DVD image this good :eek:

and I am not slinging ****, I have been viewing nothing but HD movies for years now and I am the pickiest bastard when it comes to picture quality, up until recently I considered DVD movies unwatchable

my current DVD playback of the VP30 and Panasonic SDI DVD player is every bit as good as most of the HD movies I recorded from HBO/Showtime/HDNet(granted HD from current sources is **** and doesn't come close to D-Theater D-VHS), the VP30's new 10 bit scaling is amazingly superb(same as in the 5910)

Scott you could get a VP30 with SDI card for 1600$ or so if you look hard ;) and then add a 500$ SDI DVD player(Panasonic 82/91/xp30 etc) or buy a player and mod yourself and save more

you would then gain a 4 hdmi switcher and all of the VP30 adjustments and goodies

-Gary

Scott,

3 chip dlp? Wow...I'm jealous. ;) :)

Yeah, decided not to compromise this time around. :)

And in that vein, I'm afraid you nice folks won't get the 5910/3910 comparison I promised. I found out from the LIARS at the place where I ordered that DVD-5910 now don't expect shipment for at least 60 days. After cancelling the backorder and talking it over with the ISF technician who will be installing and calibrating the ScreenPlay 333, I decided to go the SDI player+scaler route. For the $3,500 a new DVD-5910 costs, I can get an SDI-modified DVD player, a Lumagen VisionDVI scaler, AND the ISF calibration... and STILL come out ahead.

When he put it to me that way, it was a no-brainer. :cool:

Good call Scott. Makes sense.
But, ahem... what will you be using for music?

BTW, how's your room coming?

Sounds like a great setup, Scott...

Me, I like the simplicity of the best universal player out there, that handles ALL my music and video chores, without the hassle of extra boxes...bear in mind, this is all in my living room, and not a dedicated theater, per se.

Please let us know how you like your new setup....:)

Sounds like a great setup, Scott...

Me, I like the simplicity of the best universal player out there, that handles ALL my music and video chores, without the hassle of extra boxes...bear in mind, this is all in my living room, and not a dedicated theater, per se.

Please let us know how you like your new setup....:)Soitanly. :D I think I would have been happy with the DVD-5910, but only if I'd been able to get it at the deep discount I was hoping for. When that didn't materialize, the SDI scaler/player made more sense.

Good call Scott. Makes sense.
But, ahem... what will you be using for music?
I'm not much of a music listener. I was only really interested in the DVD-5910 for its DVDO scaling circuitry.

BTW, how's your room coming?
Nearing completion, thanks! :D

Today my custom signs from Showcase Signs (http://www.showcase-signs.com/) arrived, and they look terrific (I'll be posting pictures in the appropriate forum in the next day or so). As I type this, the drywall and trim have been painted and the electricians are now swarming over the rooms doing the final electrical trim installations (sconces, wall plates, etc.). Next Thursday the carpeting will be laid, and sometime during the week of the 13th the projector will be permanently mounted and calibrated. And I just found out today that my theater seating will arrive several weeks early--sometime within the next 2-4 weeks the Jaymar 59000 seating (nine butter-colored microfiber seats, all with electric recline) will be delivered.

And THEN it's opening night! :cool:

Scott I seriously suggest the same scaling you would have gotten from the 5910, the VP30 DVDO, you will be amazed combined with a SDI DVD player (from the Panasonic line a few years back)

I have a fabulous Kenwood Sovereign DV-5700 1200$ 5 disc player that was modified for SDI, it has the CUE Free panasonic mpeg decoder and a amazingly crisp image with the VP30, I will be posting it for sale soon on the fab memeber forums here along with a bunch more panasonic SDI dvd players I have in my severly cramped space :), gotta clear some stuff out

-Gary

Yeah, decided not to compromise this time around. :)

And in that vein, I'm afraid you nice folks won't get the 5910/3910 comparison I promised. I found out from the LIARS at the place where I ordered that DVD-5910 now don't expect shipment for at least 60 days. After cancelling the backorder and talking it over with the ISF technician who will be installing and calibrating the ScreenPlay 333, I decided to go the SDI player+scaler route. For the $3,500 a new DVD-5910 costs, I can get an SDI-modified DVD player, a Lumagen VisionDVI scaler, AND the ISF calibration... and STILL come out ahead.

When he put it to me that way, it was a no-brainer. :cool:

Funny, I made the opposite decision. I bought a DVD-2910 three months ago and decided that since we were upgrading our Sony 42" "HD-compatible" rear-projection set to a Pioneer Elite 930, we could either buy a VP30 -- and maybe go the DVD-2910 SDI-modification route -- or trade the 2910 in for a 5910 that was already discounted almost 20% due to oversupply at the local A/V specialty store's warehouse.

I decided to buy the 5910 because even though I'd have loved to have my PC (where I get broadband TV to watch some foreign-language stuff), a DVD player, future DVR, and maybe a Hi-Def setup box all go through one HDMI input to the Pioneer 930, the many audio dropout and video sync problems I read about on the VP30 thread made me think that while a great concept, I was better off waiting for the VP40 or 50 when all the bugs were worked out with the scaler's HDMI/HDCP issues.

Besides, the 5910 picture is SO good with absolutely no macroblocking that it almost makes 480p look better than the 720p or 1080i we're getting from RCN's Motorola DCT6200 cable box, even going through component inputs (for now). I'm really looking forward to seeing what the 5910's HDMI video looks like when we get the Pioneer Elite sometime this month -- Tweeter willing. That and saying hello to Cable Card so I can see what the Pioneer set can truly do on its own:-).

As for the sound....it takes a special player to improve on a Denon 5803's DACs. This one does, particularly on DTS on some of the live rock concerts I've A/Bed.

Now if only I can get my wife to let me replace the 5803 with a 5806, but you have to draw the line somewhere.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by heja
Hi

I wonder if anybody has any experience with HDMI connection between the Sanyo Z4 projector and Denon 5910? I have just received a DVD-A1XVA (European model 1080p ready) and are experiencing that when setting the projector to 0 overscan the picture on PAL disc and NTSC discs does not cover the whole picture area (ie “underscan”). Om PAL discs there are 5/6 black pixels left and right and 2/3 black pixels on the bottom of the picture. On NTSC discs the picture is shifted to the right 10/12 black pixels on the left side 4/5 black pixels at the bottom and zero at the top and right side. Have you experienced something simular? It seems like the scaler is not scaling properly. I can of course turn on the overscan on the projector but much of the point of buying a player with the DVDO scaler integrated is to omit the projectors scaler.



Noone had similar problems?

Yep have the same problem with my DVD-A1XV and Marantz S3. I think it varies display to display.

Any one have an explanation to this? To mee it looks like the DVD player underscanns the piture not that the Z4 puts extra blank pixels in the picture. I have tried other DVD players without experinecing the same problem? Any suggestions?

While my Ruby's in the shop, I've got the 5910 hooked back up to a Marantz S3 temporarily. No problems with underscanning here. I have the display and player setup to 0% overscan.

BTW, I recently confirmed that the chromatic distortion I'm seeing with the 5910 doesn't appear to be display related or y/c delay. I can only imagine it must be a byproduct of the inferior MPEG decoder that Kris pointed out. As far as pure performance that is my only gripe with the player and the only place where the sdi modded rp82/DVDo combo shows superiority.

Chad that problem occurs with my S3 via HDMI-DVI or DVi-DVi. Not via component which is what I bet you have it hooked up by :)

Nope, I'm running DVI to the S3 at 720p for 1:1 mapping.

Nope, I'm running DVI to the S3 at 720p for 1:1 mapping.

Well I am at a lost for words as even Chris had this problem with he was evaluating the DVD-5910 with the S3. As I am going via a Denon Receiver with HDMI switching I will try a straight DVI-DVI from player to projector and see what happens :( But I also had the same problem with the DVD-3910 and that was going straight to the projector.

Chad if you don't mind what settings are you using on the AUX input on the S3.

Chris who? Let me clarify. I've noticed this with a few select discs. But, this was how they were encoded, as it's not apparent with most.

DVI is in RGB
aspect is overriden when doing 1:1
no keystone
ceiling mount off
rear off
OSD pos 16:9

Those are the only potentially relevant settings I can think of. If you would like any other just let me know.

Kris from Secrets spelt his name incorrect.

Let me clarify. I've noticed this with a few select discs. But, this was how they were encoded, as it's not apparent with most.

Thanks for clarifying that you see the issue on Select titles. As do I, but these that show this problem don't via component when I checked.

Kris uses a Sony HS51.

Maybe component is overscanning either in the display or player to hide it. I've never checked the 5910's output via component. But, I can't imagine what could make the 5910 treat one dvd differently from another when both share the same encoding. I really think what we're seeing are deviations in the framing on the disc that wouldn't show up with even as little as 1 or 2 percent overscan.

Kris also has a pre-production unit. I just received mine from Denon late last year and it was apparent that they've made some modifications from his. White clipping at 0 is one of them. Though, I've had some problems with DVD-audio playback that Kris's generation apparently doesn't.

Kris uses a Sony HS51.

But when he was evaluating it he was using an S3.

I just received mine from Denon late last year and it was apparent that they've made some modifications from his.

I received mine a month ago and yet this problem still exists.

It is a strange issue indeed but not one that enitrely detracts from me enjoying the player.

Also using a HD Set Top box here in Australia via DVI I also had the picture coming in from the right hand side of the screen, which stayed constant. So I feel it is a DVI/HDMI problem with certain projectors. Hoping when Marantz releases their new 1080P DLP which I would like to get, that I don't have this problem.

I've been meaning to drop Kris a line. Haven't talked to him in a month or so. I'll ask him about it. He told me he helped a friend setup an S3 once. But, it was awhile ago. I don't know if he can remember specifics that far back or not. I know I can't.

If the difference was between a 4:3 letterboxed disc and squeezed 16:9 it could be something in the player handling it differently. But, there is no reason I can think of why a scaler would respond differently to two different discs, both encoded at 16:9. The difference has to be in the framing on the disc. Also, it's not unique to the 5910 or S3. I've seen the same thing at 0% overscan with other players and other displays with component and digital inputs.

The difference has to be in the framing on the disc.

Chad I agree with you there. But again I only see this problem over HDMI/DVI and not via Component.