Let’s get the discussion rolling! We installed the 5910 tonight. As it is not yet calibrated to our display there is not much fair to say about the visuals. It is replacing a 5900 in our setup.

A few observations about the cosmetics, in comparison with the 5900. The 5910 looks big and square compared to the more sleek lines of the 5900. All the logos are white printings behind a glass panel. Much less attractive than the silkscreened on aluminum of the 5900. There are brightly blue lit logos for DVD-Audio/Video and SACD. These dim when the unit panel is dimmed. What does not dim, however, is the big circular power button. And for some unfathomable reason, it is GREEN when the unit is on! That’s more than a matter of taste—it is flatly annoying. It displays a large red circle when on standby.

As for the rear panel, the RCA connections are the classiest I have ever seen. However, unlike the predecessor, none of them are color coded, oddly. They are very nicely spaced, which helps with connections if you are working in tight corners. The DVI jack is a cheap looking silver one that looks very out of place. Power cord attached snugly.

The remote is nothing special and probably no one would want to use it. It does have full backlighting you may switch on. It also has output format switching for DVI/HDMI which is very helpful for our purposes, and saves a lot of running up to the unit (wow, did I get flamed when I complained about that aspect of the 5900…). Otherwise, clumsy with tiny labels.

Navigation is not the fastest but significantly faster than the 5900, at least with the firmware we were running. We did do some SACD listening, via the analog outputs, multichannel. Played a few tracks off Peter Gabriel Up which sound like mud on lesser players, which I have listened to many times for comparisons. Maybe it was just my imagination, but to me, it sounded noticeably more open and detailed than the 5900. And then I did not feel so bad.:)

As an aside, while this thing is pricey, I counted 27 more expensive DVD players in a current buyers guide from Sound and Vision. Helps to put it in perspective.

DoctorO,
Thanks for the mini review!
Now for the good stuff.....
How's the picture from this bad boy?
Are you able to view using it's HDMI output or are you limited to component?

Regards,

dc

Originally posted by DoctorO
As an aside, while this thing is pricey, I counted 27 more expensive DVD players in a current buyers guide from Sound and Vision... Like Meridian's Reference 800? :D

As a 3910 owner, I was also surprised at the lack of color coding on the back of the unit. It's not like I need it to know which cable to plug in where, but it seems like such a standard that the omittance of it seems like...well, an omittance.

Jason

When your chief complaint is the lack of color coding on the RCA jacks, things are looking good!! ;)

Originally posted by Kris Deering
When your chief complaint is the lack of color coding on the RCA jacks, things are looking good!! ;)
For sure...I love the 3910! :D

Jason

Originally posted by DreamCatcher
DoctorO,
Thanks for the mini review!
Now for the good stuff.....
How's the picture from this bad boy?
Are you able to view using it's HDMI output or are you limited to component?

Regards,

dc

Using DVI but will have to calibrate the display to it on the weekend. Using the settings from the 5900, things look "off".

"off" ?

Does the 5910 have a source direct mode similar to the 3910's? If so, what does source direct bypass (bass crossover/distance/levels/etc)? It was the only way I could get the 3910 to play SACD's without converting the DSD data to PCM first.

Originally posted by DreamCatcher
"off" ?

Out of the box, hue and black levels don't look quite right, but that's on display settings calibrated for the 5900. Will calibrate tomorrow.

Originally posted by uzun
Does the 5910 have a source direct mode similar to the 3910's? If so, what does source direct bypass (bass crossover/distance/levels/etc)? It was the only way I could get the 3910 to play SACD's without converting the DSD data to PCM first.

It does have a mode but I cannot find in the manual clarification as to how it functions. Maybe Kris can answer that one.

Does anyone know if there are any professional reviews floating out there for this bad boy yet?

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Does anyone know if there are any professional reviews floating out there for this bad boy yet?

Of course, there's Kris' professional review at Secrets. :D

I trust very few other reviewer's judgment as much as his. Very few others have equal experience or knowledge of the field, or are as thorough in testing.

Likewise, this is the kind of language they typically use. Player X is one of the best... Very few others have... There aren't many others that... They must all go to the same school of non-committal writing. They never specify which is as good or better. Maybe they don't remember, or maybe it's just a vague form of writing that says very little with many words...padding...and leaves the author an escape route in case they open themselves to criticism.

The way they write excludes specifics, and requires that you scour previous reviews in an attempt to deduce which devices they consider equal or superior, but to little avail.

Erm, I'll shut up now ;)

does the 5910 pass 480i over HDMI ?

We know about the video quality, lets hear about the audio quality through the analog connections especially cds.

The 5910 does not pass 480i over HDMI and never will. It would require a hardware and software upgrade according to Denon. Plus, why would you even want to bypass the Realta scaling??

If you are using the HDMI or DVI setting go into the user memory settings and set the contrast level to -2. This is the only way to get proper above white levels. Make sure HDMI output is set to "Normal" and IRE is set to 0 as before.

In the user memory settings I recommend setting the detail enhancer to 1 and the NR filter to 1 as well. With my tests this resulted in the best images. All other settings should be left in their default settings (with the exception of contrast to -2 ONLY IF USING DVI or HDMI!!!). Use your display controls for any tweaks you need to do after that point.



If you go source direct you do not get bass management but you still get time alignment and channel level control. This does keep the DSD signal from being converted to PCM.

Originally posted by apesma
We know about the video quality, lets hear about the audio quality through the analog connections especially cds.

As good as anything I've heard from Denon before. Reminds me more of the DVD-9000 in this regard then the 5900.

Thanks Kris
How many steps above the 2900 would the audio be?

I'd like to see an audio comparison between the 5910 and the Mccormack UDP as they're about the same price. We know the video is better in the 5910 but audio is my major concern.

Originally posted by apesma
Thanks Kris
How many steps above the 2900 would the audio be?

I would say quite a few steps. The 5900 easily bested the 2900 in our setup with regards to sound, and the 5910 sounds better than the 5900 (all of these used multichannel analog outs for SACD, with the pre-pro doing the adjustments). Of course results will vary for other ways of listening.

DoctorO

If your pre-pro is doing adjustments then you probably aren't hearing as much of the player. Adjustments usually require a A to D then D to A conversion. You should be comparing with a pure pass through and do any tweaking in the Denon.

I am trying to arrange to get the UDP right now. Haven't heard back on it yet. Right now I have the Teac Esoteric UX-1 which is about $13K. I will be doing a little bit of comparing on the audio front with them.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
DoctorO

If your pre-pro is doing adjustments then you probably aren't hearing as much of the player. Adjustments usually require a A to D then D to A conversion.



Absolutely, thus my caveat re different ways of listening. I heard all three players with the same pre/pro setup, at least.

Originally posted by apesma
I'd like to see an audio comparison between the 5910 and the Mccormack UDP as they're about the same price. We know the video is better in the 5910 but audio is my major concern.
I thought the 5900 was on par with the UDP-1, sonically, so the 5910 should be a notch or two above.

Question for Kris or others,
If your display had a native resolution of 1366x768, which my Panasonic 65" plasma has, would I be better off keeping my Pioneer 59AVi which can output 480i through it's HDMI output and adding an external scaler like the iScan HD+ to output 768. Or is the 5910 so good that it would be the better choice?

dc

Well the Iscan HD+ doesn't support 480i in via DVI yet so that may not be a huge benefit. But supposedly this feature is in the works. When it does come through that would probably be the preferred method IF your plasma lets you input a native resolution signal (not all do). If it doesn't then the 5910 does have performance benefits over the Pioneer but I don't know how much your display may limit their appearance.

Thanks for the reply Kris,
I don't understand why my display would "limit their appearance"?
You may well be right about the display not accepting a native resolution. I know it won't accept 480i.
480p, 720p, 1080i yes, but not 480i....

dc

How is the 5910's performance over component cable? I know it can't upconvert over component.

I have an older Sony Progressive DVD Player and was looking to upgrade and am thinking the 5910 can last me forever, even when I get a new television in a few years with hdmi and\or dvi input.

Any thoughts on doing this? Am I better off just saving my money and seeing whats out in about 2 years when im ready to buy a new television? Thanks.

-Evangelo2

Dreamcatcher

It would limit the appearance slightly because the plasma will have to rescale and Panasonic's internal scalers are poor at best. They tend to overly soften the image.

We watched a short on the 5910 last night (not calibrated yet). The family's response was: What is that green light? The big round green power button light. Unfortunately, our player sits beneath our display. So, it is pretty distracting. My wife thought it looked like the cigarette lighter in our truck! Who was the fool who picked GREEN?! And who designed it to stay on when the rest of the front panel is dimmed? We may end up moving the player...

Does the green power-button light dim with the display?

Green makes sense for ON, albeit muted, but I thought blue was the new LED colour.

How hard is it for manufacturers to consult the customer base, at least regarding some things, such as aesthetics?

Originally posted by zeropoint
Does the green power-button light dim with the display?



No it does not dim, that's the problem. If I ever get it serviced I'll ask to have it disabled. Or I could put electricians tape over it, like some people do with the "Check Engine" dashboard light!

Originally posted by DoctorO
No it does not dim, that's the problem. If I ever get it serviced I'll ask to have it disabled. Or I could put electricians tape over it, like some people do with the "Check Engine" dashboard light!
A little trick I use is to get some of that blue 3M painters tape, cut out a circle, in your case, use a black marker to sort of paint it black, then stick it over the light. That way you don't leave a sticky residue where the tape was.
So DoctorO, what's your take on the 5910? Is it worth the price of admission?

dc

If we can go by this forum there's not a lot of interest in this player. Will Denon sell many?

the green light doesn't bother me at all. i actually rather like that color as it matches some of my other components.

i posted a little mini review earlier. i would say for my needs it definately is worth the price of admission.

the picture is the best i've seen. the upconversion really does improve the picture in my setup. (1080i with Pioneer Elite 630HD)

The sound seems to be close to the Sony SCD-777ES but I need more listening time and break-in. I previously didn't have multichannel SACD or DVD Audio and that is a nice benifit. It also seems to be a very decent transport.

It seems well thought out and has been a joy to use. I appriciate all the features and capabilities of this player!

Originally posted by apesma
If we can go by this forum there's not a lot of interest in this player. Will Denon sell many?

Being that this forum makes up a miniscule amount of Denon's overall sales, I would say it isn't a factor. Plus this player was JUST released so there aren't many with it. Then keep in mind that this forum seems far more interested in the sub $1K players then anything else. Seems by most posts I see that the majority want to stay under $500 but expect to have the best image out there.

If we can go by this forum there's not a lot of interest in this player. Will Denon sell many?

Denon successfully approached its target market for afficianado's with around $2K to spend on great audio and video performance with its 3910.

The 5910 covers the last 9 yards for those with appropriate collateral equipment and proper depth of pocket resources to achieve superlative A/V results with the latest technology.

Given its price point and target market I believe the 5910 will be a great monetary success for Denon along with further cementing its position as a cutting edge technology leader (despite the unmarked outputs and bright green power light!)

In the end its what you see and hear.

Originally posted by apesma
If we can go by this forum there's not a lot of interest in this player. Will Denon sell many?

It's interesting that a few responded to this comment without asking a key question. What is "many"?

Denon's marketing and r&d people realize that a $3500 player is targeted to a very select demographic. So does "many" units mean Denon's goal of sales? Does "many" units mean enough units to get the AVS forum members to form a powerbuy? Or is "many" units in the ball park of 2900, 3910 sales?

Apesma, I like you do remember all the extensive chat about the 2900 and 5900 before and after release...the feedback is why I bought both. And to a certain extent the early good reviews of the 5910 is why I have it on order and will pick it up this week.

But as Kris stated most of the players that had the real excitement and thread talk are 2900's, 5900's, 2910's, 3910's etc....street sub $2k (bigger audience). Unfortunately I would not expect many threads(read "interest") about a $3500 player. For example, how many times do you think the average forum member spends time reading and posting on the high end or ultra high end projector pages? I suspect not much...it's a very limited market. Heck...I even had to special order the 5910 because most mid end retailers do not and will not even have it on the floor.

For the market Denon is targeting I would not be surprised if they sell "many" relative to target if this is the player that the reviewers say it is. I'm at least hoping it is!

I think I would buy it if I was sure the audio was good enough that I would have no desire to bring it to an aftermarket modder. But I've seen no evidence so far that Denon invested any time or $$ in upgrading the quality of the power supply, clock, analog output stages, etc, that make the difference between a mass market device and high end piece. We know it has high end DACs but little else.

Sounds to me like the 5910 is DOA.(dead on arrival)
There certainly is not alot of raving about it.
Glad I stuck with my 59avi and DVDO Iscan HD+

Well Stevie I am sorry you feel that way. I would be happy to accomidate you up here in Washington if you ever want to see what your combination can't do! ;)

Gee, I wonder how many more pms I will get from folks telling me I was right? I have been very quiet as of late, letting people judge this unit for themselves. I still think it is a great unit, just not head and shoulders above the others (Pio 59, Onk SP1000, Den 3910). Still there are many more who still haven't typed their findings, (maybe they kept their receipts like I suggested). And before the Denon faithful jump on me I want to say again that this unit is great, just not great enough for 3500.00...I, ROBOT on DVHS beats the dvd version on the 5910 HANDS DOWN!!!

I don't undertstand. You're comparing HD versus SD and surprised that HD is better?

Um, yeah, all DVDs are 480i, so of course DVHS looks better.

Not surprised one bit, just making a point! I could spend 3500 on the 5910 or 550 on a JVC HMDH5 U and the lesser is better. I compare all these units to the DVHS units. When they get closer than you know their getting somewhere...

Originally posted by joerod
And before the Denon faithful jump on me I want to say again that this unit is great, just not great enough for 3500.00...I, ROBOT on DVHS beats the dvd version on the 5910 HANDS DOWN!!!

Just curious, what price point is it "great" enough for. Because no one is or at least should be actually paying anywhere NEAR $3500 at respectable, regional, authorized, brick and mortar locations if you have a prior strong relationship. And when I say nowhere near it I mean nowhere near. I know this from my purchase. Let's just say I could buy a new 3910 with what I saved.

So for me it is a no brainer with all the available data points I have to date (very limited) regarding the 5910 ability. Now...to your point Joerod....I am keeping my receipt! Because I sure as heck never expected the 5900 to give me so much macroblocking that I could not bear to watch it!

Maybe the 5900 experience on AVS has caused some apprehension or tempered the usual excitement for some. There was a ton of excitement at 5900 release and then this big Denon let down about a month later. And remember...there was months and months of talk about a fix and it never materialized.

Brings to mind the phrase "cautiously optimistic".

Thing is you aren't go ing to get close to DVHS with DVDs. The source materials aren't good enough, and I don't care if you spend 10 billion dollars on a Denon DVD-35400 or whatever numerical name it has, your display isn't going to look better than the source.


Now when they start making Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, then you can compare them. You'll probably have to pay as much for a high end Blu Ray player as you did for the 5910, and it will probably be pretty basic player.

Joe first the dvhs DOES NOT PLAY all the FORMATS the 5910 does. Why do you have to continue to compare things that are NOT THE SAME. If a dvhs did all what a 5910 did and was just as good in ALL parts you have a point other wise it is not a fair comparison.

Yes your right, your not going to get close. So why spend so much on a very high end dvd player when if I have duplicate titles (DVHS, DVD) the DVHS will win every time. When I have guests over and give them options, many times they pick a title I have in both. So until HD DVD comes then the 5910 will always be a second place unit when compared to true HD. A very nice second place player indeed, but at this late in the game (HD DVD planning over 75 titles launched by years end) it just doesn't make sense. My suggestion is wait til the end of the year and get one severely discounted...

Kevin, the JVC HM5 U decodes DTS, Dolby, has HDMI and plays in TRUE 1080i, what more does it need to do when playing a movie? Besides, I was only making a simple point. I am not surprised one bit that all most did was concentrate on my DVHS statement. I am saying that there is something already more superior out there now (DVHS), and there will be another something out there 10 months from now(HD DVD). So why invest in something (5910) that cost more than both. I guess if there are those out there that believe they can squeeze even more out of 480i than a DVDO Iscan HD+ combo can than go for it. But I have been typing for a couple of months now that I would save my coin, and buy the next format. Sure keep your current collection, but just get the future newer HD releases when they come out and some choice favorites of the past.Keep your good 480i dvd player now, there is not much better out there anyway, and add a HD DVD unit (1,000) when they come...Because for me, I want the dvd player for movies(picture quality). And if there is a better picture in the next room, then that's where I'll be!

Too bad DVHS will never catch on and it's support will eventually dwindle. The movie companies just weened consumers off of VHS, and I don't think they are ina hurry to go back to it.

Joe does it play cds? no! does it play sacd and dvd audio? NO. does it play anything but tape NO, that is what i am talking about also like you have sais the sound is the best you have heard this is waht i am saying it is not fair to compare somethign that does not play the same formats. and by the way when dvhs came out it was almost 1500.

joerod,
Why is it always all about you. Can't you just talk about the subject at hand and leave the crap about yourself out of it?

Bluesea, refer to my edited post^^^. And I don't think I typed anything personal about ME. I just mentioned the simple practices that many do when watching a movie.

God, what an insufferable bag of wind....

Joe

I don't understand the point of your comments here. Noone in this thread has compared the player to anything else, and no one here has anything bad to say about its performance. So whatever you think you know compared to everyone else is irrelavent. At the end of the day you can't prove that there is a better performing player for video. Yeah there are some that are close, but there are players that are close in audio too that have more then $10K in between their price tags.

This player outperforms ANY DVD player that I've seen at ANY price. Be it $200, $2000, or $20,000. I can bet money that I've TRULY tested far more players then you have probably ever even looked at. Yeah true HD looks better, but I am not buying a D-Theater deck and no one in a DVD forum is looking for information on a piece of gear that ISN'T DVD. So I can get a handful of titles that look better on a passing format that isn't even close to mainstream, great. But I have to pay close to three times what the average street cost of a DVD is to get them. Why should I go with that if I can enjoy the best of the what DVD has to offer today? No one is saying you have to go buy one of these. But there are people that want the best there is for their DVD collection and sorry sir, this is it.

I have a lot of 1080i D-VHS and D-Theater tapes. You can record broadcast/cable HD via a D-VHS deck so it's not quite so narrow in utility as the list of D-Theater titles would suggest, and certainly broadcast HD and D-Theater both look considerably better than even the best DVD's out there, but D-VHS/D-Theater is not any sort of replacement for a regular DVD player. Based on availability of titles DVD is far and away the more useful product. It's true that a $500 D-VHS deck will produce an image superior to even a 5910, but D-VHS decks have a sub-par audio section, won't play any sort of music (CD's/SACD's/DVD-A's etc), and you are limited to movie titles available via broadcast/cable HD and D-Theater (even adding the two the selection is miniscule compared to DVD).
Comparing a D-VHS deck to a SD-DVD player on the basis of image quality ignores the very real issues with title availability, music and convenience. Like I said, I have a pretty extensive collection of D-VHS/D-Theater titles but they do not in any way supercede my need for SD-DVD's. And the 5910 represents a very high quality universal disc player that gives one access to a huge library of movies/music. I love D-VHS and D-Theater, but these decks are indeed niche products.

Making a statement such as "my $500 JVC deck has PQ that blows away that of the 5910, therefore the 5910 is overpriced" simply ignores some basic truths about what roles the two products serve. For $3500 you get perhaps the best SD-DVD player out there video wise while providing superb audio performance with both redbook CD's and high resolution titles. That's still something worth considering for a lot of people.

I just have to respond to this thread because I think some of the points that are being brought up are absolutely ludicrous. First of all where did DVHS come from? This is a niche market, and mediocre one at that. I have owned and sold many DVD players in the past years of my "hobby". Krell, Denon 2900,5900,3910, Arcam,Esoteric and many more. The Denon 5910 is a true high end piece of equipment that outperforms video from any other player I have come across, many being more expensive. The audio section is also incredible, besting many stand alone audio only units costing many times more. 3500 for a player that beats all other players in video playback regardless of price is quite an achievement and alone is justification enough for me. This player was not designed for everyone. It was designed for the viewer who will settle for nothing but the best. Some people cant justify spending 2000 more than the dvd3910 for a 5-10% increase in performance, and no macroblocking I might add. If you cant then dont buy it. For me, I love my home theater and I enjoy it even more when it looks and sounds the best that I can make it. The 5910 was worth every penny in my book.

Originally posted by joerod
Yes your right, your not going to get close. So why spend so much on a very high end dvd player when if I have duplicate titles (DVHS, DVD) the DVHS will win every time. When I have guests over and give them options, many times they pick a title I have in both. So until HD DVD comes then the 5910 will always be a second place unit when compared to true HD. A very nice second place player indeed, but at this late in the game (HD DVD planning over 75 titles launched by years end) it just doesn't make sense. My suggestion is wait til the end of the year and get one severely discounted...


I totally agree.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Joe

I don't understand the point of your comments here. Noone in this thread has compared the player to anything else, and no one here has anything bad to say about its performance. So whatever you think you know compared to everyone else is irrelavent. At the end of the day you can't prove that there is a better performing player for video. Yeah there are some that are close, but there are players that are close in audio too that have more then $10K in between their price tags.

This player outperforms ANY DVD player that I've seen at ANY price. Be it $200, $2000, or $20,000. I can bet money that I've TRULY tested far more players then you have probably ever even looked at. Yeah true HD looks better, but I am not buying a D-Theater deck and no one in a DVD forum is looking for information on a piece of gear that ISN'T DVD. So I can get a handful of titles that look better on a passing format that isn't even close to mainstream, great. But I have to pay close to three times what the average street cost of a DVD is to get them. Why should I go with that if I can enjoy the best of the what DVD has to offer today? No one is saying you have to go buy one of these. But there are people that want the best there is for their DVD collection and sorry sir, this is it.


Kris, you defend Denon products like you own 50% of their stock. You're a knowledgable guy but your bias shows very clearly when you speak about Denon products. Here's a tid bit of info for you, Denon's have FAR more faults to worry about than their image quality. I notice you never mention that though.

Kris,
I might take you up on that offer .Maybe I could stop up sometime when I visit my son in law who is based up there on the island.
Better yet if you could post some of things the 5910 can do that a iscan hd+ combo can't do it might be a big boost for the 5910.

Wow, this thread went waaaaayyy off topic overnight. Where is a moderator when you need one?

Calibrated the 5910 over the weekend with DVE. Watched about an hours worth of material, and thinking...this player may have been overkill, in terms of the video aspects, for our display, compared with the 5900. It looks quite similar via DVI into our direct view 40 inch XBR800. But we will have to watch further, using more current films, before passing judgment. It certainly sounds better to my ears than the 5900, under the conditions I described above, so I am not disappointed. The fact that one can switch formatting on the fly from the remote is a great convenience feature, compared with the 5900, owing to the quirks of this display (e.g., makes it much easier for family members to use when, say anamorphic widescreen and full aspect special features are combined on a DVD).

Wow Kris, I guess I should spend more time ripping apart dvd players instead of installing many different BRANDS on many different DISPLAYS. You know, I never said once that this unit was not great. WHY is everyone so DEFENSIVE? Even if I posted I was going to have a parade for the 5910 some folks in this thread would still find something wrong about it. It is a great dvd player, just not NEAR worth the MONEY! Some people need to feel like they have the ultimate best at no matter what price, and this fits the bill. I still think the 3910 is very close, and someone already posted the 5910 is 5-10% better. I agree with them. So with 480i squeezing out 5-10% more is that worth it? And as far as my DVHS unit and over 90 titles, they may seem like a gimick, but when I watch a movie they seem more REAL to me. I have a 5910, but I plan on selling it this week, so I guess I won't be part of the exclusive 5910 clubhouse owners thread anymore. And while your at home looking for MB or timing layer changes (what happened to the 5910 there), I will be out there installing units with displays. And so far, many of my very high end clients have laughed at me when I offer them a 5910 (after they hear the price). They think I am nuts even after I offer a terrific discount on it! So I will bow out now and let you continue on your DENON crusade. After 14 years of installing, I am sure I haven't seen many different types of dvd players. You know, this thread should be changed to the Denon/KrisD followers thread...And the funny thing is, even if Denon released a 5920 in December, (you never know with them) and it was 1% better than the 5910, you would still be acting like it was the END ALL BE ALL! Oh that's right, the 5900 was too...

Originally posted by DoctorO
this player may have been overkill, in terms of the video aspects, for our display, compared with the 5900. It looks quite similar via DVI into our direct view 40 inch XBR800.

Overkill? You can't use that word in AVS where everything is overkill! :D

I know what you mean. On my Sony 40XBR800, the Denon 1910, Denon 2900, Denon 3800, Denon 5900 SDI-modded+IScan, LG7832, Momitsu, Pioneer 59avi that I did try were all looking really close to each other for PQ.

But on my 110" screen, I was able to easily separate them, and clearly see those "minor" differences between all those players. Grain, "noise", artifacts and sharpness are showing clearly on a big screen.

But don't forget your 5910 is also an audio player. And you will be ready if you buy a projector and a big screen. :D

And btw, you should start saving for that meal you did promise me... :p

Can the 5910 do PAL-NTSC conversion?

To blkout and joe both of you need to quit saying Kris is biased he is NOT!! read his review and i belive joe you did and said you agreed with him on it. His review ripped denon quite a bit if you actually read it. Joe i could install a milion dvd players and how does that quaillify as a person who reviews them and puts them through real test WHICH YOU DO NOT. Kris have way more knowledge and real test equitment to do his test. He dont just look at it and say hey thet looks good.

Originally posted by LEVESQUE
Overkill? You can't use that word in AVS where everything is overkill! :D

I know what you mean. On my Sony 40XBR800, the Denon 1910, Denon 2900, Denon 3800, Denon 5900 SDI-modded+IScan, LG7832, Momitsu, Pioneer 59avi that I did try were all looking really close to each other for PQ.

But on my 110" screen, I was able to easily separate them, and clearly see those "minor" differences between all those players. Grain, "noise", artifacts and sharpness are showing clearly on a big screen.

But don't forget your 5910 is also an audio player. And you will be ready if you buy a projector and a big screen. :D

And btw, you should start saving for that meal you did promise me... :p

So Levesque (Kris chime in too)...

Based on your experiences would you pay $1k (upgrade charge) to get the 5910 and out of the 5900. I have severe macroblocking issues with my Mits 62725 DLP display and have a chance to get out of the 5900 and into the 5910 for that $$ difference. Actually it is on order now and due in this week. I pay the retailer when I pick up.

Or would you take your money back on the 5900 and get something entirely different?? I obviously do like top PQ and sound but with this open opportunity I want to be smart.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Bluesea
Can the 5910 do PAL-NTSC conversion?

I've not tried it but it has a button for that function right on the remote.

Thanks for asking a question about the thread topic!:)

Thanks. I wonder if thats for conversion, or just switching between PAL and NTSC? If it does do the conversion, then it is on my short upgrade list. Was considering the iScan, but need to verify first if my Panasonic 37PD25 is capable of 1:1 pixel mapping.

DoctorO,

What is your take on my question....?

I wish I could get a deal like that.

I'm getting 10% off, and @$1000 trade-in for my 5900.

Gonna cost me over $2k.

Originally posted by kevinca1
To blkout and joe both of you need to quit saying Kris is biased he is NOT!! read his review and i belive joe you did and said you agreed with him on it. His review ripped denon quite a bit if you actually read it. Joe i could install a milion dvd players and how does that quaillify as a person who reviews them and puts them through real test WHICH YOU DO NOT. Kris have way more knowledge and real test equitment to do his test. He dont just look at it and say hey thet looks good.

I've been on this forum and others long enough to see that Kris is quite biased towards Denon. This player is just one more of Denon's products that he will defend to the end no matter what flaws it has.

Interesting that the person accused of bias isn't the guy who is making his living selling and installing DVD players. . . .

And Joe, if the Denon is so overpriced, how are you going to sell it in good conscience this weekend? Won't you feel like you are just ripping the buyer off? After all, he could get 7 D-VHS decks for the price of the Denon.

It doesn't bother me that people think I am biased for Denon. My job is to test DVD players and find the ones with the absolute best picture quality. That is the information that people want from me. Right now Denon has it. They had it with their last line too. Yeah they have quirks and problems but so does everyone else. I would love to sound biased toward someone else for a change but unfortunately no one else is pushing the limits like Denon. I remember when everyone used to say that me and Stacey were biased for Panasonic too. Man I loose so much sleep at night over it too.

I do find it funny though that I have never gotten a check from Denon, I don't get any special deals from Denon that I don't get from every other manufacturer out there, and I definately don't have any stock from them. I just appreciate that they try their hardest to produce the best picture possible. No one else has shown that kind of commitment. Pioneer did an outstanding job with the 59Avi but their previous players were mediocre at best. Onkyo/Integra are the same. Hell they won't even send me their new players because I was so brutal on their older ones. Sony is starting to show some promise but they haven't released a flagship design in forever now.

Who else is there? Arcam did a super job with the DV-27A but stepped back wth the DV-29. Marantz is starting to show promise by moving away from the poor Pioneer designs but still needs a better video processor. Lexicon has a long way to go, Toshiba has a long way to go, Theta has a ways to go.

So exactly who else should I be advocating right now. If you want to hear that your player is the best out there, there are plenty of other reviewers and publications that will pretty much tell you that regardless of what you have. I think people look to me to find out exactly what player does what on the video side.

As for the quirks and issues, I'd love you to point me to the player out there that doesn't have one or some other compromise. Yeah Denon has macroblocking but so does Yamaha, Samsung, Toshiba, Oppo, Teac, Krell, Panasonic, and probably a few more I don't remember right off the top of my head. Seems the Onkyo has some audio issues that have been discussed a lot here. The Pioneer had some Y/C delay issues but I've heard they cleared those up. But they still have time alignment issues for their high rez stuff.

Hey Kris...any thoughts on my topical post/question above. Thanks.

I think it would be a good move. Especially with the MB issue affecting your display. All of the quirks of the 5900 have been worked out with the 5910 and the video is better.

Hey, Joe--

How much for the 5910? :D

Originally posted by Bluesea
Can the 5910 do PAL-NTSC conversion?

It appears so, but I do not see one that is codefree at this point.

http://www.jvbdigital.com/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=dvdplayers&page=title&title=267

Originally posted by umr
It appears so, but I do not see one that is codefree at this point.

Well, if they hope to sell any in Europe, especially the UK, they had better make it so this side of the pond!

$3,500 for a region-locked R2 player? now that WOULD be laughable!

:p

Thanks for the link, UMR. Based on the 2900/2910, it might seem reasonable to expect that region-free play would be accessible via firmware. Still, I'd prefer a mod by JVB. I'm sure there are or will be other solutions.

Originally posted by Bluesea
Thanks for the link, UMR. Based on the 2900/2910, it might seem reasonable to expect that region-free play would be accessible via firmware. Still, I'd prefer a mod by JVB. I'm sure there are or will be other solutions.

I agree, but until the firmware or a mod appears I would not count on this player being region free.

Originally posted by awhb
Well, if they hope to sell any in Europe, especially the UK, they had better make it so this side of the pond!

$3,500 for a region-locked R2 player? now that WOULD be laughable!

:p

I agree even on this side of the pond.:)

Originally posted by coolstrategist
DoctorO,

What is your take on my question....?

Go for it. For your display, all the reports suggest you're likely to see a significant improvement. And it sounds better too. Hopefully the additional mass of the thing is not just dead weight, with regards to build quality. Maybe someone know more about the other build details, and whether the transport itself has differences.

Originally posted by DoctorO
Go for it. For your display, all the reports suggest you're likely to see a significant improvement. And it sounds better too. Hopefully the additional mass of the thing is not just dead weight, with regards to build quality. Maybe someone know more about the other build details, and whether the transport itself has differences.

But I have read many posts around here that supposedly confirm that the newer Mits DLPs xx525, xx725, xx825 all do a D/A/D conversion via hdmi.

If this is true am I losing my mind by buying a top upconverter like the 5910? Does the Mits' manipulation of the digital path negate any Denon benefit? I had a Samsung 61" DLP prior to the Mits and it had a pure digital path so this d/a/d concept was not an issue.

Help me out here.....

Kris, or anyone else, aside from build quality, ability to play SACD, and better DACs for CD analog out, how would the 5910 beat a decent HDMI/480i outputting DVD player paired with the Algolith Dragonfly with the HQV chip? By "decent" I mean a DVD player that didn't have macroblocking or other gross deficiencies.

I realize the MSRP would be higher for such a combo but the Dragonfly would obviously have the advantage of processing multiple inputs.

Thanks.

Dan

Hey Dan

Without having seen the Dragonfly yet I couldn't say. Theoretically it should be fine, but I don't know what other processing that piece may or may not be doing.

Cool

It is definately a bummer that your TV does the D to A to D thing, but the player's excellent de-interlacing, scaling and NR attributes should all still be intact. You will probably get some softening of the image though, but that is going to happen regardless of source most likely.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
I think it would be a good move. Especially with the MB issue affecting your display. All of the quirks of the 5900 have been worked out with the 5910 and the video is better.

Kris,

Sorry, this is off topic, but I've noticed comments regarding a new firmware for the Panasonic S97 claiming Faroudja related 'macro-blocking' has been reduced. However, as far as I know, Denon/Faroudja were unable to fix this for the 5900. Do you know whether Panasonic have fixed this problem in the S97?

Also, on a totally unrelated point, I see you use a Behringer feedback destroyer, and wondered where you use this in your system? Do you use it for microphony induced feedback or straight equalization?

I'll stay on topic now :D honest.

Joerod,

I have a library of about 300-400 SD DVDs, which DVHS player do you recommend to make them look their best? ;)

Hey Zero

I have requested a new S97 to look at but no luck so far. I imagine if they reduced artifacts it was probably due to reducing a filter or something. This worked for Denon but never completely eliminated the issue. Same thing with Krell and the Showcase player.

I do use a Behringer but only for Parametric EQ purposes. I have 3 subs in my room and I needed a small amount of equalization and the Behringher worked out great. It isn't very user friendly but it is very effective. Managed to dial my room in +/- 1db from 18 to 80Hz.

Byte, I have never been an advocate for any unit in particular. To me though, as a consumer, I like the Onkyo SP 1000 better than the Pio 59 or Den 3910. It is more bright with better depth. Plus the audio is terrific. I would never post my shootout here for obvious reasons(read the last couple pages of posts). Anyway, they are all very similiar in picture quality and all run very close (sometimes matching) the 5910... Tbhugh, if you own 300-400 sd dvds and have a killer HD display then I feel sorry for you for not having the absolute best picture quality for it. I think it is funny when a very high end client will spend thousands then decide not to throw in a DVHS player. What kind of chip is the JVC HM5 U using? Which frimware version is it? Will I need more firmware discs to be up to date? What are those box looking pixels in night scenes? None of that is here! And 10 months from now when you are still going on about your 3500.00 (or wait 2,800) SD dvd player, I will be already installing HD DVD players (1,000 msrp) with the absolute best picture quality. So for NOW it is a DTHEATER machine (550.00) for the BEST, or 10 months from now 1,000 for HD DVD players for the BEST. The math is not hard for me...Now if you want to keep this on topic stop bringing up prior posts...Talk about the 5910, what is up with that remote? Has Denon ever made a good remote?

I have a Delta Unisaw.

It will do things your little tape player couldn't dream of doing.

But then, we're not talking about tablesaws here, are we?

Originally posted by moonhawk
I have a Delta Unisaw.

It will do things your little tape player couldn't dream of doing.

But then, we're not talking about tablesaws here, are we?

LOL :D

Man I feel the love. :0

Originally posted by joerod
...I, ROBOT on DVHS beats the dvd version on the 5910 HANDS DOWN!!!

This is where this promising, potentially informative thread went downhill. No relevance whatsoever....

But if someone wants to keep informing me about their experiences with the 5910 and it's relationship to other upscaling players I welcome it. Also please check my earlier specific questions here.

I ultimately just want a great player (5910 or otherwise) and to know what to look out for when my 5910 arrives. It is that type of discussion that uncovered the 5900 issues and why mine is headed back.

Thanks.

coolstrategist

There are no underlying issues with the 5910 that I know of. I have found some quirks with the processing but they are not deficiencies but merely limitations and they can only be seen with certain test materials. I will talk more about those in the review, but they are nothing along the lines of something like the macroblocking issue.

I don't know what you mean by, "to know what to look for when my 5910 arrives" though. If you PM me specific questions I could probably help.

Thanks Kris.

I will PM you when I have more specific questions from learning/reading/using. My statement was refering to any quirks that individual 5910 users may have seen thus far but you definitely answered my questions/concerns.

Plus I wanted to get this thread back on track!

Is AL24 processing permanently enabled for audio 2CH and multi-channel, or can it be defeated?

The picture quality on this unit continues to please. I have not found any quirks/problems either.

My initial feeling on the SACD performance being close to the Sony SCD-777ES has not panned out yet. Comparing the 2 directly last night it was obvious that the Sony was much better (smoother, better soundstaging, air, general realism) I should say that I tested the units through a Placette passive preamp. Since passives can be picky about source components the Sony may just be a better match. But I suspect the 5910 sound will improve after continued use. It is really too early to judge. I am still happy with it even if I decide to keep the Sony for 2-channel playback of SACDs. I still gained multichannel SACD/DVDA and the terrific video performance.

zeropoint

I haven't seen any way to disable the AL24 processing. I assume it is just part of their audio circuitry that can't be avoided.

As far as I know the AL24 processing can not be bypassed.

Cheers Kris, bafx,

Anyone have a multi-region 5910? Otherwise, anyone know if it will be possible to MR?

Why do you want to disable the AL24 Processing? Never heard anuone wanting to do this is why i ask. Kris would it be good if it was?

kevinca1,

I like the flexibility of having the option to switch it to decide which I prefer for particular material, and for compatibility with other equipment which may also apply over/up-sampling at various stages. Also, heard somewhere concerns about adverse affect of AL24 on audio - sound-stage I think - but this may be specific product related (may have been a receiver.)

Originally posted by kevinca1
Why do you want to disable the AL24 Processing? Never heard anuone wanting to do this is why i ask. Kris would it be good if it was?

Would it be good? I don't know. I don't think it would hurt it depending on how you handled the signal afterwords. I don't think the AL24 processing applies to the digital output when you play CDs though. My Anthem D1 will tell you the specifics about an incoming digital signal and when I playback a CD is still says 16/44.1 so it obvioiusly isn't upsampling to 24 bits via digital. The difference in sound between the 5910 and the Anthem D1 is very slight though with CDs. I like the Anthem a tad bit more for the low end and imaging. But I doubt most people would even notice a difference.

The difference between the two with movie soundtracks is huge though. The D1 sounds FAR better then the analog outs of the 5910 with DD and DTS. And we're talking on every level.

Originally posted by Kris Deering

The difference between the two with movie soundtracks is huge though. The D1 sounds FAR better then the analog outs of the 5910 with DD and DTS. And we're talking on every level.

I don't like the sound of that!

What about with digital outs?

Ok Kris you got me a little confuesd, are you saying the digital is better then the anolog outs from the 5910? If so what about using denon link like i am with the 3910 and 3805.

I don't recall reading anywhere which DSP(s) are used in the 5910, for AL24, DD, DTS, etc. Are they the same as for the 5900?

Ah, just answered my own question on Canadian site: 'Analog Devices Melody 100 'HammerHead' processors (DSD signals are converted to PCM)'

For what it is worth, I am also using the digital out for standard redbook playback and DD/DTS through my Arcam AV8. The Arcam does a beautiful job with digital signals, the best D/A conversion I have had in my system. I enjoy redbook cds more than ever since the AV8 entered my system. The 5910 did make a considerable improvement as a cd transport compared to my previous EAD Theatermaster DVD player. To be fair, I haven't done a direct comparison of the 5910's redbook and DTS/DD playback though.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
So exactly who else should I be advocating right now. If you want to hear that your player is the best out there, there are plenty of other reviewers and publications that will pretty much tell you that regardless of what you have. I think people look to me to find out exactly what player does what on the video side. This is a great question to ask since on one hand you must remain agnostic to retain your objectivity while testing yet on the other hand you get bombarded with questions for recommendations, etc. I think if the DVD player shootout reports contained information on any given players performance on "good" DVD material instead of just how they performed with "bad" DVD material, you might not get as much flack as you do. Or maybe it wouldn't change any for you and simply not recommending any brands would be the best "out" for you. :)

I feel your pain and appreciate your efforts. I certainly don't consider you a Denon "fanboy" or anything but at the same time I think people tend to read too much into the shootout reports resulting in so "fanboy-ism". I just wonder how the tides would turn of some other brand scored higher than Denon next time around. :)

In any event, I certainly hope you keep fighting the good fight and doing the best you can to remain objective in your testing. I know I wish I could try out some of these more expensive players so I can better understand some of the things you report on but maybe someday I'll be in a position to do so. :)

Peace...

I'm, sorry if I don't chime with the proper politically correct responses but Kris has stated ;
#1 That the ESS+ decoder used is a sore point for him.
#2 He states that the white levels are off and he recommends adusting to-1.
#3 He recommends to add noise reduction to +1.
This does not sound like a $3500.00 player to me and believe me I was waiting to purchase it but based on the above how can anyone say it is the ultimate player?

No-one is.

Maybe you should read the rest of what he has to say, including about much higher priced competition.

One tick corrections really don't seem to me to be that out of line.

I'm a little more concerned about his audio comments at this point.

If this thing puts out DVD video as good as it gets, and high end audio, and I don't need to add a bunch of on board processing, and more shiny black boxes to get it, I'm in.

I really like keeping it simple...One player for everything, one high end receiver, and my HD PVR/sat receiver, and I'm in tall cotton.

Cheers

Speakers are good, too....:D

(And I'm building my own)

Originally posted by DoctorO
Wow, this thread went waaaaayyy off topic overnight. Where is a moderator when you need one?

I appreciate the intent of your thread.

I'm sorry to see so many Denon haters visiting without the benefit of a pooper scooper.

:(

I'm definetly not a Denon hater and did read the full review.
It is still not the ultimate player due to the ESS mpeg decoder and a simple item like white level should be dead on for the price.
The truth is that the average forum reader will not be able to tell the difference between the 5910,3910,59avi etc. That is why HQV is going to release their test dvd to prove the product is better.
Without a test dvd you won't be able to see a difference.

I'm sorry to see so many Denon haters visiting without the benefit of a pooper scooper.

You rang? :)

larry

Originally posted by steviec
I'm definetly not a Denon hater and did read the full review.
It is still not the ultimate player due to the ESS mpeg decoder and a simple item like white level should be dead on for the price.
The truth is that the average forum reader will not be able to tell the difference between the 5910,3910,59avi etc. That is why HQV is going to release their test dvd to prove the product is better.
Without a test dvd you won't be able to see a difference.

Is this last statement true?

I am definitely an average guy with an average 62" DLP display. I won't have a projector or 100"+ screen for a while down the road. Your comment is why I asked the question earlier...should I dump my macroblocking 5900 for the 5910 for additional $1k or just return the 5900($1600 cash back from the retailer) and get a player (3910, Pio, Okyno) at much less cost since I "won't be able to see a difference"?

That is the million dollar question.

If you are an 'average guy,' I doubt you'd have bought a 5900, let alone a 5910. The 'average guy' doesn't spend $1500, far less $3500. Most guys buy mainstream players, and few are even aware of such issues as CUE: many don't notice it until it's pointed out to them - then they can't ignore it.

If you're looking at a 5910, or 5900 even (or 3910, 59AVi, SP1000,..,) then I would expect you to be a discerning enthusiast, who is looking for the best affordable solution. One who has identified shortcomings/failings/flaws in 'lesser players,' and is looking for players that overcome/eliminate them.

You (one) shouldn't just buy the more expensive player because it is said to be better, unless you can see and appreciate the improvement, and consider it worthwhile. If you can't see the difference, or if it is of no significance to you, then you could save money and buy one that you find satisfactory, then deploy that money elsewhere.

I would suggest a demo disc is being produced, not to prove a difference exists for those who can't see it, but to conveniently highlight the key advantages obtained for those aware of common shortcomings.

There is a difference. One person will see it, another won't. One will care, another won't. The proof of the pudding is in the eating: you have to see it and compare it to your reference, to see if it produces a worthwhile improvement to you, that's worth the asking price.

Cool,
Only you can answer your million dollar question. Demo the players. You may be just as happy with the Pio (cheapest you mention) for $2500ish less than the 5910. Audio concerns can only be addressed by hearing a player in _your_ system. Crutchfield sells Denons and they have a 30 return policy. You may have to find a local dealer for the others.

larry

Steve you are what you say you are not. Just becuase you MAY have to adjust a player one click its a POS in your book. TELL ME ONE PLAYER THAT IS PERFECT NO MATTER COST. If i use your logic on tvs then they also are POS due to you have to adjust them. I can also use your logic on a 50,000 car does it never have to have oil changed does it never have to have to be ADJUSTED? you dont like it dont buy end of story.

Originally posted by steviec
I'm, sorry if I don't chime with the proper politically correct responses but Kris has stated ;
#1 That the ESS+ decoder used is a sore point for him.
#2 He states that the white levels are off and he recommends adusting to-1.
#3 He recommends to add noise reduction to +1.
This does not sound like a $3500.00 player to me and believe me I was waiting to purchase it but based on the above how can anyone say it is the ultimate player?

#1. The ESS decoder is a sore spot because of the CUE issues. Luckily the Realta chroma processing masks the problem completely and doesn't seem to impact chroma resolution in either the vertical or horizantal directions. But I would still like to see Denon move on from it. Just a personal thing and one you will never even notice.

#2. The white level via DVI and HDMI is not set properly in the default setting. If you set the contrast level to -2 in the memory settings it is perfect. Just set it when you get the player and never touch it again. After you set it, use the displays settings to adjust contrast. ALSO, someone who bought one of these recently told me he did not have this issue so Denon may have addressed it in the firmware that is in production units now. I am not positive on this and I'm following up with Denon on it. They are sending me a completely new unit shortly that I am buying so I will verify it with that one and report it if it is true.

#3. You don't need to set the NR to +1. I was recommending this because the Realta's NR filter is incredible and this will make just about ALL MPEG noise evident on DVDs go completely away. If you get a player you should try it. Find a DVD that has obvious MPEG noise in the backgrounds and bring up the NR setting. While adjusting on the fly look at the noise on the screen, it disappears and it doesn't hurt the image at all. This is an added feature of the player that I recommend using, that is all.



As for the audio thing. What I meant by my comments was if I feed my Anthem a DD or DTS signal digitally from the Denon it sounds a lot better then just using the Denon for the DTS and DD decoding and feeding the Anthem via the analog outputs. I don't know a single person that uses their DVD player for the DTS and DD decoding and uses their processor or receiver as a pre-amp only. But I still wanted to compare the two. CD, SA-CD and DVD-A performance via the analog outputs is still excellent and I really don't have any complaints here at all. So my suggestion, use the digital outputs for DD or DTS, and use the analog outputs for the rest unless you like using the firewire or HDMI output for high rez and CD instead. I don't have those capabilities yet but I will when the upgrade for the D1 comes out.

Originally posted by PooperScooper
You rang? :)

larry

I thought this might happen, but I did not mean to confuse the function with the celebrity.

:D

However, I would 2nd the nomination if you would enjoy performing the function when necessary? How does AVS select moderators?

Kris
I use a 6 channel preamp so the player has to do the dts and dd decoding. Is the 5910 bad at this or just not as good as the Anthem? Thanks.

I am the guy Kris is talking about that doesn't seem to have the same white level problem. I am not seeing the white clipping on the test patterns with the default settings. Kris will be confirming if its been corrected when he gets a new unit. I don't consider that a deal breaker regardless as Kris's unit performs perfectly when making a small adjustment.

Just to be clear on the noise reduction, I agree with Kris in that it is the most effective noise reduction I've seen without degrading the picture. This is a bonus feature, not a requirement to get a good picture! The picture is better without it on then any other player I've tested. I tend to leave it off unless I notice the artifacts however.

I too can't imagine anyone really wanting/expecting the DD/DTS decoder in the unit to perform as well as a high-end surround preamp. I'd rather they didn't even put them in there! The multichannel SACD/DVD Audio is nice though.

The 5910 maybe the best player out there now but we still do not have the ultimate player as this one should have been.
One poster mentioned that he wanted simplicity and to do away with all the extra black boxes.Well if the 5910 would have had all the DVDO resolutions available and a different mpeg decoder than I would say it is the greatest player.I'm hoping to get the next one if it has these features.
Why buy the 5910 and do an SDI mod when you can do the same for less with the 3910(same ESS decoder)?Someone at Denon wasn't thinking.

There would be absolutely no reason to get a 5910 if you were going to have it SDI modded and by-pass the Realta deinterlacing.

"I am definitely an average guy with an average 62" DLP display. I won't have a projector or 100"+ screen for a while down the road. Your comment is why I asked the question earlier...should I dump my macroblocking 5900 for the 5910 for additional $1k or just return the 5900($1600 cash back from the retailer) and get a player (3910, Pio, Okyno) at much less cost since I "won't be able to see a difference."


Trade-up for only a grand? Yes, I wish, but something better is always around the corner.

Too bad the MPEG decoder comment from Kris turned some people off of this player. I am very sensitive to the chroma bug issue and have seen no trace of it on this player. That is the bottom line. If it would have used a better MPEG decoder would the picture be ultimately that much better? I seriously doubt it.

As far as supporting other resolutions I can see why that is a serious ommision for some people's setups. I luckily don't have that problem. Hopefully it will be enabled it a software upgrade since the player is technically able to do it.

Originally posted by steviec
One poster mentioned that he wanted simplicity and to do away with all the extra black boxes.Well if the 5910 would have had all the DVDO resolutions available and a different mpeg decoder than I would say it is the greatest player.I'm hoping to get the next one if it has these features.


That was me...

I don't need those extra resolutions, so I'm thinking this may well be the ultimate player for me.

Unfortunately, I'm having problems with the new light engine in my display, a warranty issue that will take some time to resolve, so I can't really demo the unit my dealer has yet.

Meanwhile, I've nearly completed my subs....

I don't know a single person that uses their DVD player for the DTS and DD decoding and uses their processor or receiver as a pre-amp only.

I do, when I use the Meridian. They use the player to decode and then send 3 x SPDIF to their processor for additional processing.

Kevinca1, You are not correct. I really do respect the Denon crew very highly.I just think they release their products a bit prematurely before really tweaking them to perfection. If the the 5910 had a top notch mpeg decoder it would be a killer period.You can rationalize anything but you are talking apples and oranges by comparing dvd players to displays.
Kris has even stated that it's best to leave the players settings as is and adjust the display to the player.In this case apparently it is a quick fix for the high white level and apparently the HQV noise reduction must be incredible as he usually does not recommend using noise reduction.
Like I said: Had Denon said o.k. best mpeg decoder we can find so people will flock to have an sdi mod done , and the ability to scale to different resolutions, this would be a killer player and everyone would be trying to find a way to buy it. As it is ,No sale.

I don't think there is a "flock" of people who would buy a $3500 player just to have it modded for another $1500, or who need those odd resolutions.

Why would you bypass the most exclusive feature the player has?

Leave it to Stacey to chime in. Okay, I know one guy who uses his DVD player to do DD and DTS decoding, but only because it converts to PCM and is sent out digitally upsampled. But that doens't matter because he really doesn't do this because he REALLY uses a SDI modded RP-82 and goes digital out. So there.

steviec, out of curiosity, which player would you consider the best right now?

I have the Pioneer 59avi 480i component into a DVDo Iscan HD+ outputting 1080i thru DVi.
.I just sold my Denon 3910 with sdi mod( the 59avi is way superior)I have previously owned the Denon 2900 with sdi ,the panny xp30,still have a panny rp82 in the box,momitsu v880,Pioneer 38a,Denon 1600.
Like many others I still look for that one box solution but so far no luck.

STevie

What didn't you like about the 3910 via SDI? I can't imagine that not producing a far better image then the Pioneer via component and 480i. Both players have the exact same CUE issues as each other, but you are getting a D to A and A to D step with your solution???? When I A/B'ed the component vs SDI in with the DVD-5900 to an iScan there was no comparison. I am curious what you didn't like about the SDI route?

Aww now i see why he wants to trash denon, then he makes a bold statement that the pioneer is supieror to the denon. You just exposed yourself, Kris wrote bad things about the pioneer but that didnt matter to you did it because it was not denon, he does about denon and you start trashing it. let me remember the score was it 82 for the pioneer and 93 for the denon. and the 5910 is even higher.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
STevie

What didn't you like about the 3910 via SDI? I can't imagine that not producing a far better image then the Pioneer via component and 480i.

I can't either, maybe he's using a HDMI out to the ISCAN?

Well Kris to be very honest I did not see a great difference on my display.Granted it is not the best but it is Isf caled and gives me the best picture I have ever seen. Dont laugh: Hitachi 51GWX20B.
I have no need to buy another display or projector until I
can get the black detail I get out this set.( and of course there is 1080P someday).
As for the 3910 it had a green cast in the 20ire I did not like and also slow navigation and a general feeling of hoping it will work properly.Having to reinstall firmware is something that really should not have to be done.
My 59avi came with the newest firmware that fixed the y/c delay and works perfectly. but I still search for that 1 box and Denon is always so close.
I sure hope they will fix things and I will be the first to dump the 59avi for a Denon that has the best mpeg decoder and will scale as the iscan hd+ does.

Keenan, I think the Iscan HD+ does a better job of deinterlacing , that is why I use component rather than hdmi.

But doesn't the Pio output 480i through the HDMI output? Wouldn't that be better than the D to A and then A to D?

It would be better but the iScan doesn't accept 480i via DVI yet so he doesn't have that choice.

I see Stevie. No laughs on that display. My friend Paul had a Hitachi RPTV and it looked great too. I didn't notice the green cast with his though, kind of strange. Glad to hear that Pioneer is working out for you, that is an excellent player. I was just curious more about the SDI vs component thing.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
It would be better but the iScan doesn't accept 480i via DVI yet so he doesn't have that choice.


Forgot about that.. :p

Well how's this for strange. Outputting the DVI from the 5910 to the 40XBR800, we have a scrolling bar issue, only when the output from the 5910 is in 1080i mode. What is really bizarre is that the bar moves in the opposite direction right-to-left- compared with the 5900 that ran left-to-right. How can that be explained? Guess we'll look at a nice set of component cables...

DoctorO, do you have a cableTV line hooked to that display? If so you might remove it to see if that fixes the problem.

Originally posted by keenan
DoctorO, do you have a cableTV line hooked to that display? If so you might remove it to see if that fixes the problem.

No no cable line, but thanks for having a shot at the problem!

Yeah, besides if it was the cable feed it would be a horizontal scolling line not vertical like you described.

Originally posted by DoctorO
Outputting the DVI from the 5910 to the 40XBR800, we have a scrolling bar issue, only when the output from the 5910 is in 1080i mode.

It's not the 5910. It's a well known problem of your set (Sony 40XBR800), and alot of other Sony direct-views...

Here's to you my friend: Vertical bar on Sonys when viewing 1080i .

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190083&highlight=40xbr800

Have fun reading this enormous 26 pages long thread... ;) Or simply go to this page and look for the post from jjingle1: "Service Bulletin Confirmation" from Sony.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190083&perpage=20&pagenumber=14

You have a defective "B" board...

Yep,struggled with that with the service fools around here for awhile, then gave up. It just struck me as strange that it reversed directions when changing from the 5900 to the 5910???

Does anyone know if the 5910 will come in silver? I would like it to match the rest of my components.

http://www.avland.co.uk/denon/dvda1xv/dvda1xv.htm

looks like it does in europe. not so sure about the US but i see no reason why you would only have black over there.

Thanks Umberto!

Originally posted by tbhugh
Does anyone know if the 5910 will come in silver? I would like it to match the rest of my components.

The A1XV is available in Premium Silver in Europe.

"Premium Silver"? Really? It sounds like they're offering it with leather seats and the moon roof option....
:D

--Bob

The A1XV has just been announced - at last - on Denon's UK website, along with photos, and operating instructions for download.

Originally posted by DoctorO
Yep,struggled with that with the service fools around here for awhile, then gave up. It just struck me as strange that it reversed directions when changing from the 5900 to the 5910???

According to the first post:

"Its source is the very slight (1 Hz) frequency difference between the set's horizontal scan rate and the 1080i video's horizontal sync rate."

So a slight change in scan frequency of the source could cause it to change speed or even change direction. I think you've uncovered yet another Denon production variance.

Kris,

Unlike some others that whine about your hard work, I happen to appreciate it! I was wondering why Secrets has never tested a Esoteric DV-50s. I am very interested to hear some reviews on that player vs. the Denon 5910

Originally posted by Papafox
Kris,

Unlike some others that whine about your hard work, I happen to appreciate it! I was wondering why Secrets has never tested a Esoteric DV-50s. I am very interested to hear some reviews on that player vs. the Denon 5910

Never could get a DV-50; HOWEVER, I am currently testing their new UX-1 Universal that replaced it so look for that very soon.

Kris,

Will the UX-1 replace the Dv50-s or is that there higher model?

In listening to the Esoteric at my local dealer, the player appeared to have significantly better audio than the Denon 5900. (which I currently own)
My quandry is should I mod my player for audio or get a higher audiophile player? Do these mod companies really deliver the performance that they advertise?

For video the obvious answer would be a the new Denon 5910. Although the follow up audio review on Secrets did not give me reaffirmation that it is a much better audio player than the 5900. Thanks for your reply.

I also have the Anthem D1 processor and am wondering if you run your Denon 5910 in Analog Direct or use Analog DSP?

If using Analog DSP, Source Direct - ON , how do you calibrate the DVD-A/ SACD since the settings are now bypassed in the 5910 or 5900?

Question; If I run the 5910 to output 1080i into a 1080i native resolution hd set will the realta chip be doing anything? and what exactly ?
Does it deinterlace? Would it be better to use 480p output and let the set scale? Thanks!

I've got a 5910 on order. Any idea what the backlog looks like?

Question; If I run the 5910 to output 1080i into a 1080i native resolution hd set will the realta chip be doing anything? and what exactly ?

In one of the threads I read on this forum, it was stated that 480i is deinterlaced into 480p, then scaled to 1080p, then reinterlaced to 1080i for the output. So, if that is in fact the case, the Realta would be providing deinterlacing even for a 1080i output.

The Realta will still be de-interlacing and re-interlacing the image. You also get the benefits of its NR if you chose to use it. The scaling is done by the DVDO and that would also be far better then your display's scaler.

Papafox

The UX-1 is the replacement for the DV-50 as far as I know. The audio performance was indeed better then the 5900 (dual differential DACs will do that for ya!!), but I think the 5910 is close considering the price differences. The UX-1 is still a bit better with CDs, but I like the Denon for DVD-A and SA-CD in the multi-channel realm.

As for the D1 setup, I use the 6CH input with Analog Direct and let the Denon do all the bass management and levels. So I am NOT using Source Direct with the Denon. This resulting in far better bass response. For CDs I go into the D1 via digital and let it do the decoding. I like the sound of the D1 a little bit better then the 5910, but we're splitting hairs here. I used the Chesky demonstration disc's test tones for channel levels on the 5910. It is a DVD-A.

Hey Kris..

Have you posted your audio review of the 5910 yet? I thought I saw a reference to it, but couldn't find it at the Secrets site.

Thanks

Originally posted by Kris Deering
The UX-1 is the replacement for the DV-50 as far as I know.

The UX-1 is $13,000!

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?cat=&sku=AESOTUX1

For CDs I go into the D1 via digital and let it do the decoding.

Kris,

For CD's try using the left and right analog outputs on the 5910 and connect to the Anthem's CD analog inputs. Turn off video, digital and display power with the 5910's Pure Direct button, and set the Anthem to Analog Direct. If your Reference 3's sound anything like mine do with this setup, you might find your preference change for listening to CD's. :)

Being able to turn off power for video, digital and display circuitry is a powerful and compelling audio attribute of the 5910 that hasn't been much discussed.

Nick

The main reason I go the way I do has more to do with the room response then anything else. The lower end of a speaker is non-existant in my room so running a full range speaker in true full range is a lost cause. Instead I use bass management. I have 3 subs in my room and my room response is just about ruler flat using them so there is NO benefit to going full range at all.

I will be doing some two channel comparisons between the Denon, Teac and a Krell piece on a dedicated 2-channel system, that isn't mine.

Just curious - has anyone figured out the firmware display sequence for the new 5910?

Is there any new firmware for the 5910? I will be collecting mine next week so I am also interested to know the firmware display sequence .

Sorry for bit OT,
Kris - Did you get the new firmware HS50 to pair with the 5910?

I spoke to JVB and they mentioned that they are working on a code-free mod. This should work out great since the 5910 is already capable of PAL-NTSC.

Hey Jason

Haven't got the HS-50 yet. Sony is backordered still.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Hey Jason

Haven't got the HS-50 yet. Sony is backordered still.

Make sure it's one that has the "fix"..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5280159#post5280159
OFFICIAL Sony HS50(51) thread - AVS Forum

So far it doesn't appear that anyone has physical possession of the 5910 to be able to review it. I've got mine on order but I have no idea when I'll be receiving it. I'll let you all know how I like it after I've received it. If anyone gets a chance sooner than I, let us know how you like it.

To get firmware for the 5910, can we download it from the Denon website?

Charlie,

I've had mine for a week now in Atlanta. While the video is truly exceptional with Kris' setup advice, the audio is just drop dead spectacular whether it be sourced from redbook CD, SACD, DVD-A or a DVD movie.

HDTV kind of got me used to high resolution so the 5910 raises DVD playback to very near that level. Audio resolution is simply breathtaking.

My wife actually said we may have to re-"listen" to some of our old DVD's!

Nick...good to hear, as I'm kind of on the fence...

What did you upgrade from, and what amplification are you using?

Thanks

Nick,

It's great to hear that the audio section is so "spectacular." I've been an audiophile long before videophile (which I'm a newbie). I have a pretty decent surround sound system (somewhat mismatched though which I can explain later). I have the B&K Reference 20 surround pre-amp, B&K Ref 7250 5.1 amp, Kef Reference Model 2's left & right & reference center, with (here's the mismatch) Martin Logan Mosaic's (wider dispersion than electrostatics, & somewhat brighter than kef, which I was wanting for the) rear speakers. I believe strongly that the video HT experience comes more alive when you have a good surround sound system, especially when you feed it high quality, high octane surround audio. And this is one of the reasons I picked the Denon 5910. So -- as you can imagine, I'm very psyched to hear how impressed you were by the audio section.

And of course, I wanted the best source for video (applying the GIGO principle) to feed my projector. I'm not convinced that a scaler would do any good unless I was using a lower grade dvd player. Plus, I'm ujnderstanding that the 5910 is very good at cleaning up certain motion picture defects in the recordings of some dvd's.

Thanks!! I can't wait til mine shows up.:)

moonhawk,

For sources I had three: For video, a Bravo D1 that provided 1:1 pixel mapping for a Sony HS10 projector's native resolution of 1366X768. For CD redbook playback I enjoyed a highly modified Music Hall CD-25 player. And for an occasionaly DVD-A, I retained my trusty old Panny RP91.

Pre-amp is an Anthem AVM-20 pre-pro feeding a Sherbourn 7/2100 amplifier.

My rack picked up three places of real estate but probably lost in the weight category as a 5910 is over 40 lbs. The mass is apparently the result of the independent electrical circuits for each of video, analog, digital, and the display. All can be selectively turned off elimating any potential for interference.

I mention this because the independent circuits don't seem to draw a lot of attention since they are competing with dual BB DACS per channel and the Realta video chip for the spotlight. For any audiophiles out there, I feel this design contributes significantly to the high quality of the 5910's audio .

Hi Keenan, thanks for your info . I am now pretty anxious to hear from Kris how the HS50 pair with 5910 by hdmi to hdmi and how does it compare to VGA 1:1 pixel mapping . I have seen someone posting pic regarding VGA is sharper than hdmi . Now I am glad to know HS50 hdmi masking problem is solve but waiting for Kris to comment on the hdmi input from 5910 .

I don't know about the 5910, but there is a whole thread devoted to the HS-50-51 here,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5282940#post5282940
OFFICIAL Sony HS50(51) thread - AVS Forum

Nick

Not familiar with any of those pieces...I currently have a 5900 which I'm running through an old Denon 3803...which I hope to upgrade to a 4806 when it comes out, and depending on it's specs vis a vis new formats, or resolving the hdmi issues with the 5805.

Is the 5900 significantly better than the Music Hall on redbook? Is that a good piece?

I'm just hoping there's a noticeable difference between the 5910 and the 5900.

My dealer's going to lend me one this week, and give me some trade-in on the 5900, so I'll probably check it out.

Unfortunately, my Sammy DLP is having "issues" right now, and I won't be able to compare video as well, but I'm confident Denon has done well in this regard, from all reports.

Thanks for your reply

Anyone know about the 5910's performance over component cable?
I have an older Sony Rear Projection TV, with only component video, will be upgrading beginning of next year, in the meantime that is my only option, would appreciate any feedback.

Originally posted by charlie1
So far it doesn't appear that anyone has physical possession of the 5910 to be able to review it.

You haven't read far enough. Go back to the start of the thread. Some of us have had them for a month. One fellow posted his observations on a separate thread. Do a search on the 5910 and look at threads started since end of Jan/begnning Feb.

BTW...anyone seen one of these in silver?

I am thinking of upgrading to the Denon 5805 receiver. I'm having a hard time deciding on a matching DVD player. Currently I am using a Pioneer Elite 59TXi/59avi combo.

I will most likely hold of on the 3910 because of Macroblocking, green push, BTB, and other reported problems. I find this very unfortunate considering the price is substainly less and I believe the Audio will sound the same since I will be using Denon Link and the 1394 port.

I have a few questions regarding the 5910:

1. Does the 5910 have any of these problems of the 3910? I will be using HDMI on my Sony KDF-60XS955 TV.

2. Since the Sony KDF-60XS955 uses a 1386 x 788 resolution I would not be using the scaling feature of the 5910. Will the Denon be superior to my Pioneer? In what way? I'm afraid I will not be using most of the features of the 5910 making the purchase of the player a relative waste.

3. Has Denon resolved the SACD/DVA-A connection issues? Assuming I get a Denon 5910 how would I hook up SACD and DVD-A to the 5805 receiver? Has any actually hooked up the two pieces successfully?

4. If I use BM and distance settings in the received will their be a DSD to PCM conversion? If so, how do I avoid this conversion?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I want to make sure this is money well spent especially if I decide to go w/ the 5910 over the 3910.

Thanks.

-Brian

Originally posted by Bghead8che
I am thinking of upgrading to the Denon 5805 receiver. I'm having a hard time deciding on a matching DVD player. Currently I am using a Pioneer Elite 59TXi/59avi combo.

Brian, I think you have a perfect combo already! What don't you like about it? Moving to the Denons is not neccesarily an upgrade, more like a lateral move IMO.

You might be setting yourself up for a "Bghead8che"!

If the 59TXi is anything like the 49, it's probably the best sounding receiver next to the Lexicon. Well I guess it comes down to if you prefer the Denon or Pioneer "house sound". Not to mention the 59AVi is a world class player.

I have one question for 5910 owners, does it pass BTB? I have the 3910 09/2004 build date and it doesn't. As much I like the 3910 for features , I find that flaw unacceptable, my cheap $89.00 Panny can pass btb.

Of course it passes BTB or else there would have been the biggest sh*t storm here that AVS has ever seen. :)

larry

Originally posted by Bghead8che
I am thinking of upgrading to the Denon 5805 receiver. I'm having a hard time deciding on a matching DVD player. Currently I am using a Pioneer Elite 59TXi/59avi combo.

I will most likely hold of on the 3910 because of Macroblocking, green push, BTB, and other reported problems. I find this very unfortunate considering the price is substainly less and I believe the Audio will sound the same since I will be using Denon Link and the 1394 port.

I have a few questions regarding the 5910:

1. Does the 5910 have any of these problems of the 3910? I will be using HDMI on my Sony KDF-60XS955 TV.

2. Since the Sony KDF-60XS955 uses a 1386 x 788 resolution I would not be using the scaling feature of the 5910. Will the Denon be superior to my Pioneer? In what way? I'm afraid I will not be using most of the features of the 5910 making the purchase of the player a relative waste.

3. Has Denon resolved the SACD/DVA-A connection issues? Assuming I get a Denon 5910 how would I hook up SACD and DVD-A to the 5805 receiver? Has any actually hooked up the two pieces successfully?

4. If I use BM and distance settings in the received will their be a DSD to PCM conversion? If so, how do I avoid this conversion?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I want to make sure this is money well spent especially if I decide to go w/ the 5910 over the 3910.

Thanks.

-Brian


To answer the 5910/5805 question... I have the 3910 and 5805 and use the 1394 to pass both DVD-A and SACD. Include the audyssey EQ and it sounds fantastic. I wish I could compare this setup with others such as Anthem and Lexicon in my environment.

I would challenge the Stefan to listen to the Denon 3910/5910 hooked up to the Denon 5805 using Audyssey in pure direct mode. I am guessing he would dump the 59TXi. The Audyssey is that good. Anyway, that is my opinion.

To answer your last question, I think if the 5805 is in pure direct mode, DSD stays in it's original format.

Andy

In the UK (at least) the multi-region firmware update is now available for the A1XV.

Originally posted by zeropoint
In the UK (at least) the multi-region firmware update is now available for the A1XV.
From where/whom? I ask because my experience with Denon shows that it being available and actually being able to get hold of it can be different things!

:confused:

From AVLand, a brilliant organisation - no affiliation - helpful friendly guys & gals. They received the multi-region firmware update this morning, in the mail.

Just finished setting up the Denon DVD-5910 in a Friends system (he is not an AVS'r so I will pass on our experience). He has the Anthem D1,P2,P5 combo, and a Motorola HDTV cable box with a Sim2 HT 300 E-link projector and a 106" diagonal Da-Lite Hi power screen. The speakers are Paradigm Signatures with the S8's in front, the C5 center, one signature servo sub, ADP's on the side, and a set of Theil Power Points in the ceiling for the rear.

We are running HDMI at 720P to the Sim2 and I have got to say the picture is absolutely stunning!! We were using the Sony DV-9000 which was no slouch, but the 3D dimensionality, color resolution, clarity and detail available is amazing. We demoed the "Asteroid Chase" in SW II and the 3D look of the image was very nice indeed. We have only had about an hour on the video portion so far but we were both quite pleased. We also played a couple of multi-channel SACD's (Roxy Music - Avalon, and Norah Jones - ?) Very moving audio experience. This was the first time since completing the Theater that we had had a chance to do multi channel music and we found it very impressive, especially the Roxy Music disk since it used a more aggressive surround sound mix than the Norah Jones disk. I also played an Acura DVD-A demo disk that came with my TL. It has a good variety of mutlti channel music and clarity and involvement provided was quite an experience. I mostly listen to two channel stereo at my home but found the multi channel experience to be very pleasing. Definitely a new dimension in sound.

We next played a variety of normal CD's through coax digital out comparing to the Sony, and I have to admit that I definitely heard an extra layer of detail and definition with a more involving sound stage then what we had before adding the 5910. I did not expect this from the digital outputs. We did not try the two channel analog out.

I can't wait to get back and do some more viewing and listening.

Cheers!

Well I just heard from Denon customer service that they are not planing to offer a silver version of the 5910 in the US; even though there is apparently a silver version in Europe.

Now I can understand that the 5910 might be a lower volume unit so it would not be worth stocking two different versions but does that thinking not go out the door when they already have a silver version in a different market?

Now the aesthetics of my rack is way secondary to the aesthetics on the screen but if I had a preference I would prefer if everything matched! Maybe I will mod my 2900 with SDI and wait for a scalar with Realta technology instead...:confused:

John,

Thanks for giving us an update after only reviewing the 5910 an hour or so. The audio sounds very impressive, as does the video.

I was curious how you would compare the video to the Sony DV-9000. If I'm correct, the Sony only has component outputs. I've spoken to a tenured and very knowledgeable (or at least he'd like you to think so) sales rep from a local retailer and he didn't seem to think too much about HDMI. I beg to differ, but try arguing with a sales person; it's a no gainer.:D

Thanks again!! I look forward to hearing more.

tb -- a friend of mine can paint almost anything, including my ski helmet ($20 for high grade reflective color-changing paint). Maybe you can find someone to paint your dvd player silver. But ultimately, as you mentioned, I would buy for video & audio quality, and live with whatever color it comes in.;)

charlie1,

I will try to give a more thorough comparison of the HDMI vs component capability of the 5910, but I have to wait to get a problem fixed on the Sim2 video processor. We experienced an issue with the component inputs only, and we need to wait until we get it repaired. As soon as we get it back, we will be able to do a serious evaluation. Will keep you posted.

Cheers!

Originally posted by charlie1

tb -- a friend of mine can paint almost anything, including my ski helmet ($20 for high grade reflective color-changing paint). Maybe you can find someone to paint your dvd player silver. But ultimately, as you mentioned, I would buy for video & audio quality, and live with whatever color it comes in.;)

In the end I agree with you, just wondering why they would not offer it here as well as Europe.

Originally posted by tbhugh
In the end I agree with you, just wondering why they would not offer it here as well as Europe.
Yeah...I wonder why as well. If I am not mistaken, as far as the exterior is concerned, the difference in a European model vs US model would just be the back panel.

Just picked up the 5910 yesterday!
This thing is built like a tank, a very sleek tank at that.
I have it mated with the 5805 (via iLink),
a Panasonic AE700 projector (via HDMI),
and a 106" DaLite screen.
Last night I was able to watch one of my reference DVD's
(Finding Nemo).
The presentation most reminded me of "HD like".
Even walking right up to the huge screen, the fuzzyness was gone!
Everything about the video image has improved over my previous DVD players (3910, 59AVi, Onkyo DV1000 & 5900).
Beautiful rich colors, sharp, crystal clear images, deep blacks.... you name it the 5910 delivers.... I'm a very happy camper. Can't wait to pop in all my DVD's and enjoy them, maybe for the first time.
I knew my projector system could give me a huge image and a great picture, HD broadcast look outstanding, but I didn't think I could get such a great image on DVD's!

I think I just upgraded my entire audio/video system big time :D

Regards,

dc

Does the 5910 come w/ all the audio cables? Ilink, denon link, etc?

If anyone knows where I can pick up a 5910 for a decent price please PM me!

-Brian

Comes with DenonLink cable, ILink cable, and crummy analog stereo cable.

Can someone comment on the video quality in comparison to the Denon 2900. Because they use the same chip, it would be interesting to see the true side by side comparison.

Originally posted by RobZ
Can someone comment on the video quality in comparison to the Denon 2900. Because they use the same chip, it would be interesting to see the true side by side comparison.

Rob, The 5910 and 2900 do not use the same chip. Every part of those machines are different.

I thought they use the same SI. Hmmm. I'm considering it for my Panasonic AE700. However, I am not ble to see one being that I am in a pretty isolated part of the US. Anyone have comments comparing it to the 2900 (PQ wise). Thanks.

Not even close. The 5910 is better than the 3910, which is better than the 2900. According to Secret's, the 5910 is simply the best PQ on the market.

Okay. I'm trying to obtain a "detailed" opinion of video differences between two very different Denon products. I'm not asking what is better. I would hope a $3-3.5k unit is better than their previous $1k product. It would be a hard sell otherwise. I'm aware of and respect the valuable progressive scan information Secrets has provided us through their research and testing. However, I'm looking for "Hey RobZ, I have seen both and the 5910 has......."

Originally posted by DoctorO
Comes with DenonLink cable, ILink cable, and crummy analog stereo cable.

Just like the 3910.


Why in world would anyone spend $3,500. on a Denon DVD player with only marginal PQ at best over less expensive players, with probably undetectable sonic differences.

If you tell me that its worth $3,500. because it does not have the green push, ala the 3910, and that it will pass btb, then you might have a justification for purchasing it.

On the question of audio, I challenge Kris to conduct a ABX listening test between the 5910 and my cheap $129.00 Pioneer DVD player and then present his findings. I know the folks over at Secrets believe in ABX testing and they are in possession of an ABX Comparator.

Doing that would be great act of consumer advocacy. It would even add more credibility to an already credible source.

Auditor

Are you talking about via the digital output? If so there probably won't be any difference. The processor you are sending it to does the audio work.

If you are talking analog, I will definately take the Pepsi challenge on that one. The Denon stands up nicely against the $13K Teac Esoteric in most cases (especially MC DVD-A and SA-CD).

Kris, in your opinion, would the quality of film based DVD images using a "lower or mid level" DLP or LCD (such as AE700 or HS51) be improved with the 5910 as opposed to a 2900, 2910, or 3910. In other words, would there be a significant enough difference to consider the upgrade? I appreciate your opinion.

Definately an improvement over the 2900. The 2900 has CUE issues that kill it for me. It also doesn't have the advantage of DVI or HDMI.

The 2910 or 3910 would be much closer in overall level of video performance. I am not sure if the HS-51 is a display that shows the macroblocking problem that is an issue with the Faroudja chips. If it isn't, the 2910 and 3910 should look tremendous on the 51. The 5910 would be a step up with its excellent cadence detection and noise reduction capabilities but unless you are a REALLY picky videophile like me, the difference may not warrant the extra expense.

You're darn right I'm picky, otherwise I wouldn't be spending my time on the AVS forum.:p :p :p

I bought the Sony DVP-S7000 DVD player (drop down front panel) when it first came out. I was struggling between it and one model down (the S5000??). The rep told me that the video circuitry was the same, but that the S7000 had improved audio. I asked to do a side x side comparison of the audio. WITHOUT A DOUBT, the audio was far superior on the S7000. But what I didn't expect was that the video was better as well (w/o details). I've never looked back on my purchase.

Here's my point. I ordered the Denon 5910 sight unseen, after having read various articles and forums. The small differences are what you get with higher end gear. That's what it's all about -- the law of diminishing returns. BTW thanks guys, you've been a tremendous help. IMHO I have no doubt that it's worth it, and that I'll own it for many years to come. Heck, I'm replacing the S7000 after about 8 years or so (I can't even remember, it's so long ago), or should I say passing it to the kids to use on their tv.:D

With audio gear, you can't go by many of the specs. I've compared cheap gear to high-end gear, and have seen many of the same specs. You've got to go by your ears. There are many differences between components that aren't in the specs, they're in the listening of the person.

I will say without even the slightest hesitation that the 5910 is the best all around DVD player I've ever had the oppurtunity to use, if that helps any. There are some other great players out there and to some the difference won't be tremendous, but for those of us that know what to look for and want the least amount of compromise on the market today (yes, there is ALWAYS some compromise) this is it for now. By years end I think there may be a few more options, but we'll have to see what compromises those bring too.

And I meant audio too. Superb. I can get better in some areas if I wanted to pay astronomical fees, but this is the best of all worlds in one bag so far. Add to that the fact that you have 3 digital output options for high resolution audio and you have the icing on the cake. As some of the other gear gets better, this thing will not become a relic, rather a great means.

I just picked mine up on Monday...

Settled for black, oh, well, couldn't find reference to a silver one, glad to see it's not offered and I didn't screw that particular pooch.

"HEY, ROBZ, I'VE HAD A 2900, A 5900, AND NOW THIS...DUDE, IT'S JUST WAAAAYYY BETTER..." ...:D

I'm having issues with both my audio and video gear, and I lack the "finer points" of audio terminology, but I would say, though I'm listening through new subwoofers and mains, that aren't quite fine-tuned yet, that audio is definitely a cut above both the 2900 and 5900. It's not huge, but it just seems that much crisper and tighter, great space and soundstage, very musical.

Bear in mind, since I am playing through my old 3803, that I'm running analog out at this point, for obvious reasons, and will probably do so, for music at least, until i upgrade the receiver, probably to a 4806, depending.

On the video side, my Sammy 56" dlp is having problems with color banding in less than fully lit scenes, after a recent replacement of the color engine due to a noisy bearing. They'll be back out in a few days, but meanwhile I've only checked out a few scenes on LOTR, ROTK, extended.

HOLY SMOKES, BATMAN....WHAT A FREAKIN PICTURE!!!!

I liked the 2900, and the 5900, except for the slow menu changes, was a real step up, but this thing blew me away...almost indistinguishable from HD--at least on scenes not affected by the banding issue. Blacks, whites, colors, smooth, non-grainy, sharp, deep, images, just incredible. I am really impressed, and will not regret this purchase.

Truly high end, one-box solution.

These are the replies I was looking for. My main concern has been deciding if a source component this stellar would shine enough on a projector like my Panasonic AE700. I definitely wouldn't need it for my RPTV or Sony 34". It would especially be overkill for the Sony. Then into the equation came "hmmm.. in about twelve months or less I could buy a HD-DVD (or BR...or both) and every new disc that comes out for around the same money. Decisions, decisions.

Originally posted by RobZ
Then into the equation came "hmmm.. in about twelve months or less I could buy a HD-DVD (or BR...or both)

or wait years (how long has DVD been out?) for them to perfect that technology.

Kris,

In your opinion, will I notice a difference going from a 59AVi to a 5910? I am using HDMI to HDMI on my Sony XS Rear projection LCD TV. Unfortunately, I will not be able to take advantage of the Denon's scaling ability since my TV uses a non-standard resolution.

Thanks.

-Brian

Hard to say Brian. Since your TV uses an odd resolution you may want to consider getting an outboard scaler like the Lumagen to mate with the Pioneer. It will take the 480i signal from the HDMI out and scale it to the resolution of your TV. It would be a lot less money then the 5910 and the picture would be great.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Auditor

Are you talking about via the digital output? If so there probably won't be any difference. The processor you are sending it to does the audio work.

If you are talking analog, I will definately take the Pepsi challenge on that one. The Denon stands up nicely against the $13K Teac Esoteric in most cases (especially MC DVD-A and SA-CD).

I'm talking pure analog 2 channel CD, no SACD or DVD-A, comparisons.

Kris,

Someone asked in the 3910 Owners thread, since the latest batch of 3910's, those with build dates from Sept. 2004 on, does not pass btb should the 3910's lose points?

Hi Kris,
I have a 3910 right now using component out to my mit. WS-65857,"yes i need a new tv" how much better will the 5910 be using this type of setup & how about the audio using 1394 firewire to my denon 5805 ? Thx Jim....

Did Secrets do a full dedicated review on the 5910? I looked and I can't find it. Anyone have a link?

-Brian

One of the major reasons for getting the 5910 over the 3910 or even 5900 should be for its ANALOG AUDIO sound quality. The 5910 is successor to the old flagship DVD-9000 in terms of build quality and audiophile things. But you can't tell from the silly model numbers they chose... The 3910 is more like the 5900 successor.

If you're just going to use it as a digital transport (eg: iLink) then much of its goodies are wasted! The 3910 or even 2910 should be just as good if not identical for sound quality in that situation, video quality aside of course.

The 5910 is also known as the DVD-A1XV super hi-end player in other countries.

http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=1&action=detail&Pid=176

I have to disagree with the assessment that the 5910 is only superior to the 3910 in regards to its analog sound quality. I own both, and babk to back, video switching between both usind their respective HDMI outputs and digital coax audio, the 5910 is significantly better,
The noise reduction in the pictire aone presents a much better vodeo experience.
I've compared "Meet Joe Black" on DVHS HDMI, vs, the dvd on the 5910 and 3910, switching between all of them, and the 5910's picture was close to that of the DVHS than that of the 3910, due mostly in part to how well the 5910 handles noise, Detail is much better than the 3910 and the image appears more 3 dimensional.
Digital coax out yielded a fuller sound out of the center channel. Dialogue that I was familiar with before on the 3910 was reproduced with less effort with the 5910 and had much more "body" to it than the 3910.
My wife noticed the picture improvement on brand new material that she wasn't familiar with and commented that the picture really improved before knowing that I had been using another DVD Player
EL

Oh come on Elbert, re-read my post carefully please! I know the video is better on the 5910 and I carefully chose my words accordingly.

Originally posted by AVfile
One of the major reasons ...

... video quality aside of course.

My advice is if audio is your main priority get the 5910.

If video is your main priority consider the Elite 59AVi running HDMI 480i to a quality scaler, as Kris Deering suggests, for less money.

Also the $2000 difference between the 3910 and 5910 (in terms of audio) goes a long way towards a better center channel speaker, processor/preamp, or amp. Yes the source is important, but less so if only used as a digital transport IMO.

If video is your main priority this is still the best solution out there. I only recommend going with an outboard video processor if your display's native resolution isn't accomidated by the 5910. If it is, the 5910 is the one to beat for now.

"Digital coax out yielded a fuller sound out of the center channel"


This is why ABX testing is necessary. We have rid the world of audio from myth, shamanism, ritualistic tweako nonsense.:)

It may not be myth though. But I don't find it very likely.

Remember that the digital signal is still clocked and the 5910 could very well be using a different clock that could theoretically yield a better sound. Again, not likely, but indeed possible.

One person’s nonsense is another’s nirvana, be it real or perceived. That is what happens when your experiences and interpretations invoke feeling, passion and emotion. At that point it is not just a simple scientific experiment.

Eric

I would tend to agree with both Kris and Eric on this one.

I find it more unlikely that whatever improvement there is would be isolated to the center channel of a compressed bitstream, although I do not doubt that could be what was most apparent to Elbert.

Originally posted by AVfile
I would tend to agree with both Kris and Eric on this one.

I find it more unlikely that whatever improvement there is would be isolated to the center channel of a compressed bitstream, although I do not doubt that could be what was most apparent to Elbert.

What Elbert is experiencing is called the "expectation effect", he expects it to sound better and his mind will tell him that its does, even though there isn't in real reason that it should. But ignorance is bliss and I don't want to be the serpent pulling someone out of the garden of bliss:p

Originally posted by Auditor55
What Elbert is experiencing is called the "expectation effect", he expects it to sound better and his mind will tell him that its does, even though there isn't in real reason that it should. But ignorance is bliss and I don't want to be the serpent pulling someone out of the garden of bliss:p

For movies, the center channel is what is important for voice, so that is where differences might be heard. As Kris said, it is possible that there is less jitter out of the 5910 digital outputs. Jitter can be very important on some processors. I have a Denon 5800 receiver, and the sound quality difference between the coax and the optical digital inputs is like night and day. The optical (via plastic Toslink) has no body at all to the voice. The dynamics seem muted. Glass Toslink has a better sound, but still not very good.

Elbert seems to make a similar claim in sound. It isn't impossible, though I think the clocking of the 3910 is probably not bad. My 2910 seems to be pretty good (at least on coax out).

Neil

Originally posted by Kris Deering
If video is your main priority this is still the best solution out there. I only recommend going with an outboard video processor if your display's native resolution isn't accomidated by the 5910. If it is, the 5910 is the one to beat for now.

Kris,

For the 5910 displaying into a JVC HD2K (1080p) projector which comes with the Fajoudja 1010 scaler, would it be better for the 5910 to send a 480p DVI signal (deinterlaced and processed by the Realta, but not scaled) into the 1010 for scaling or to have the 5910 output 1080i into the 1010, which would still have to deinterlace from 1080i to 1080p?

I know that at a recent trade show, they used a 5910 which was modified to output 1080p directly into the HD2K, and it was an amazing image, but, unfortunately, I do not believe such a modified 5910 is available as yet. So I'm trying to determine the best settings with a "stock" 5910.

Thanks,
Alan

Auditor55 –

What a person interprets with his/her senses is as “real” to them as any “true” fact and it is not just superstitious folly. Some individuals may have the ability to perceive and differentiate nuances in music reproduction with different components and some may not, again real and/or perceived.

One individual cannot prove that another individual’s interpretations are not what he/she is experiencing – this is why an ABX test falls short with sensory input. It will not take into consideration the infinite variability of individual interpretations, experiences and the influence of emotions and feelings let alone the differing physical abilities of each individual.

I for one enjoy the experience, be it emotional or otherwise, that listening to music gives me more than the measurable and analytical reproduction thereof. So…off to the garden I go. Maybe I’ll find some more of those stones to put on top of my gear to make it sound better :D

Eric

OK Guys, you want FAR OUT. Try on this for size:
http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/

The concepts behind their products for improving the audio experience is about as far reaching as I've heard. I tried the rainbow foil for the fun of it, and did some abx testing, and damn if I didn't actually perceive an improvement. For those that dare, check it out.

Originally posted by AlanMFriedman
Kris,

For the 5910 displaying into a JVC HD2K (1080p) projector which comes with the Fajoudja 1010 scaler, would it be better for the 5910 to send a 480p DVI signal (deinterlaced and processed by the Realta, but not scaled) into the 1010 for scaling or to have the 5910 output 1080i into the 1010, which would still have to deinterlace from 1080i to 1080p?

I know that at a recent trade show, they used a 5910 which was modified to output 1080p directly into the HD2K, and it was an amazing image, but, unfortunately, I do not believe such a modified 5910 is available as yet. So I'm trying to determine the best settings with a "stock" 5910.

Thanks,
Alan

I would output 480P and then let the processor scale up. That way you get the benefit of the HQV de-interlacing.

The dynamics seem muted. Glass Toslink has a better sound, but still not very good.

I don't see how this can make any difference at all. Fiber optics doesn't care about material with this low of bandwidth. Consumer fiber is usually a graded index plastic based medium, but it will still handle this bandwidth fine and the only thing that matters is whether or not the light gets there, not the material it flows through. So glass as opposed to plastic doesn't really mean anything.

Originally posted by AlanMFriedman
Kris,

For the 5910 displaying into a JVC HD2K (1080p) projector which comes with the Fajoudja 1010 scaler, would it be better for the 5910 to send a 480p DVI signal (deinterlaced and processed by the Realta, but not scaled) into the 1010 for scaling or to have the 5910 output 1080i into the 1010, which would still have to deinterlace from 1080i to 1080p?

I know that at a recent trade show, they used a 5910 which was modified to output 1080p directly into the HD2K, and it was an amazing image, but, unfortunately, I do not believe such a modified 5910 is available as yet. So I'm trying to determine the best settings with a "stock" 5910.

Thanks,
Alan

Alan/Kris,

I have the same question. Though I want a 5910, I am using both a Symmetry (480p) & 59AVI (480i over HDMI) with the HD2K/bundled scaler combination. Given the bundled scaler is not a 1080 doing true 1080i->1080p deinterlacing, this seems to be the weak link.

Is a 5910 doing true 1080p going to be offered? I would jump in a heartbeat, otherwise it's not worth doing anything until I add BluRay (and it looks like HD DVD) to the rack.

Tim

Originally posted by rudolpht
Alan/Kris,

I have the same question. Though I want a 5910, I am using both a Symmetry (480p) & 59AVI (480i over HDMI) with the HD2K/bundled scaler combination. Given the bundled scaler is not a 1080 doing true 1080i->1080p deinterlacing, this seems to be the weak link.

Is a 5910 doing true 1080p going to be offered? I would jump in a heartbeat, otherwise it's not worth doing anything until I add BluRay (and it looks like HD DVD) to the rack.

Tim

Tim,

Exactly. If I could get my 5910 modded to output 1080p through the Realta, I'd be right there. No question that 1080i to 1080p is not ideal at the moment. But given Kris suggested outputting 480p (rather than 1080i) for the Realta processing, does that mean using the upscaling of the 5910 to 1080i does NOT use the Realta for deinterlacing and processing. If it does upscale with the Realta processing, I guess my question is which is the better scaling engine to 1080i, the Denon (DVDO) or the Faroudja 1010.

Alan

In previous posts it has been stated that the Realta deinterlacing is used even when the 5910 is outputting 1080i. 480i > 480p >1080p > 1080i.

I'm assuming that 480p into your processor is preferred because it avoids a reduntant scaling step. 480p > your scaler > 1080p, or whatever your native resolution versus 480p>1080p>1080i in the 5910, then 1080i to your native resolution.

But, that's all just a guess. I look forward to seeing the real answer.

The reason I recommended 480P is so you don't use the de-interlacing in your scaler (Faroudja). You would only be scaling to 1080P from 480P.

I don't know if Denon is going to offer more resolutions including 1080P but I know they are investigating it, so I wouldn't count it off.

For those of you with a 59AVi and a HD2K, I would just wait for the Algolith Dragonfly. It will accept 480i HDMI and scale to 1080P. It will also accept other sources including true 1080i and do true 1080i de-interlacing (3-2 pulldown). Even if Denon offered 1080P output it would only work for DVD, whereas the Dragonfly will do it with all sources including true HD material. And it will be about the same price.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
The reason I recommended 480P is so you don't use the de-interlacing in your scaler (Faroudja). You would only be scaling to 1080P from 480P.

I don't know if Denon is going to offer more resolutions including 1080P but I know they are investigating it, so I wouldn't count it off.

Thanks Kris. Let us know if you hear whether Denon will offer a 1080P mode through the Realta.

Alan

I've had my 5910 for a week now and have put it through a few cycles. I’m using the 5910 with an Infocus 7200 via DVI and Lexicon MC12b. I still have my 5900 and a DVI switcher so I was able to do some A/B comparisons on both audio and video.

Video:
The 5910 as everyone has mentioned provides a better picture. To me the difference between the 5900 and 5910 varied between subtle and significant depending on what DVD I was watching. I'm currently in my theater with my little guy watching a DVD of original Spiderman cartoons. The image of these old cartoons on the 5910 is much better then the 5900 - cleaner with less noise. Last evening we watched Ray and the difference between the two players was still noticeable, but not as dramatic as with the Spiderman cartoon. The elimination of macroblocking is very cool and appreciated. I immediately noticed this while watching the opening sequence of the LOTR. I have two copies of the LOTR so I synchronized the players and A/B’d between the 5900 and 5910. To my eyes the 5910 provided a lot more depth and clarity. The difference between the two was always there - sometimes it was very subtle and other times it was obvious. On a scale of 1 – 10, on average I favored the 5910 by 1 - 2 points sometimes more or less depending on the content.

Audio:
With my set-up I could A/B digital outputs, 2 CH analog outputs, but not the multi-channel hi-rez outputs. First off with the digital output of the 5910 and 5900 into the Lex. I didn’t hear a difference. They both sounded great via the digital output, but I just could not tell any difference between them. I could tell a difference with the 2 CH analog outputs and I preferred the 5910. Using the 2 CH analog outputs, the 5910 had more depth and imaging. I tested this a couple ways first off I listened to 2 CH music using the analog bypass mode on the Lexicon. Next I used the Lexicon’s Logic 7 processing on the analog inputs, this is my preferred way to listen to CD’s, as I love the way Logic 7 wraps a listener into the music. In both situations I found the 5190 sounded better then the 5900. Comparing the 2CH outputs, on a scale of 1-10, I preferred the 5910 by 1 point.

My last comparison was the multi-channel hi-rez outputs, but I had to do this from memory since the MC12 does not have multiple analog high-rez inputs so this comparison is even more subjective then my other comparisons. To me, this is where the 5910 really shined in the audio comparisons. My preferred DVD-A/SACD listening option with the 5900 is to use the analog outputs of the 5900 in source direct mode and have the MC12 process the signal and add base management and time alignment to the signal. This is a cool feature of the MC12, but with the 5910 I didn’t prefer this setting. I found that I preferred using the TA and BM of the 5910 and the analog bypass mode on the MC12. On the 5910 the difference between using the MC12 processed signal vs the analog bypass was dramatic. I tried both SACD and DVD-A with the 5910 and in both cases the analog bypass mode was significantly better to my ears. Even my wife who thinks I’m nuts when I’m comparing sources preferred the 5910 using the analog bypass mode. On the same 1-10 scale as above I preferred the 5910 by 2 points.

Overall, I’m happy with my purchase of the 5910 and think this player will be in my system for a long time.

Pete

Originally posted by phovenier
I've had my 5910 for a week now and have put it through a few cycles. I’m using the 5910 with an Infocus 7200 via DVI and Lexicon MC12b. I still have my 5900 and a DVI switcher so I was able to do some A/B comparisons on both audio and video.


Overall, I’m happy with my purchase of the 5910 and think this player will be in my system for a long time.

Pete

Pete,

I am very pleased to read your favorable review. I have a Lex MC12B as well. I was already pretty confident in the superior video of the 5910, but it's nice to hear that the multichannel hi-rez audio also surpassed your expectations. I am somewhat suprised to hear that you preferred the audio processing of the 5910 over the Lex given that digital processing is what Lex is known for, but your review certainly reinforces my decision to purchase the 5910.

Alan

I'm very happy with what the MC12 (logic 7) does with the 2ch and digital outputs of the 5910. It's only with multichannel high-rez audio that I'm bypassing the processing of the Lex.

Pete

Hello Pete,

Now that's a great review - thanks!

Stefan

Originally posted by phovenier
I'm very happy with what the MC12 (logic 7) does with the 2ch and digital outputs of the 5910. It's only with multichannel high-rez audio that I'm bypassing the processing of the Lex.

Pete

Pete,

Understood. I was referring to the BM and TA of the 5910 vs. the Lex. But it makes sense if the 5910 is performing the adjustments to the pure signal in the digital domain as opposed to the Lex which gets the channels in analog form and has to convert them back to digital again to perform the BM and TA management. I'm definitely going to try it

Alan

Kris,

Have you had a chance to test the new Ayre D-1x? I know many reviewers and audiophiles feel it's even better than the previous generation which was thought to be the best player in many circles.
I would be curious to hear your thoughts.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
And I meant audio too. Superb. I can get better in some areas if I wanted to pay astronomical fees, but this is the best of all worlds in one bag so far. Add to that the fact that you have 3 digital output options for high resolution audio and you have the icing on the cake. As some of the other gear gets better, this thing will not become a relic, rather a great means.

Pete,

Thanks for the review, I also have a MC12 and an IF7200. When comparing bypass to digitized, do you have V4 installed on your MC12? I too preferred bypass to digitized pre V4 but not after.

Pete,

Great review.

I'm guessing it's safe to say that you liked the 5910 over the 5900 by 10-20% depending on your audio/video comparison. That's a marked improvement. It appears that one of the major improvements is the 5910's ability is to clean up less than perfect recordings of video material.

Am I correct that the 3910 is the model that followed the 5900? Has anyone attempted abx testing on these 2 units to the degree that Pete did?

Tom, Yes I also have V4 on my on my MC12 and I like it a lot. I leave V4 at the mid (default) setting, but also like the high setting. I have not yet listened to the 5910 with the other (low, high, max) V4 eq settings. Looking at your signature it appears we're not too far apart, if you're interested and we can swing it you're welcome to come by and check out the IF7200/5910/MC12 combo. I think it's a great combo.

Charlie, Yes the 3910 replaced the 5900. I've not spent any time with the 3910, but from what I've read they are basically the same unit. The only differences that I know of between the 5900 and 3910 is the 3910 is supposed to have less macroblocking and the 3910 has HDMI and DVI outputs while the 5900 only has DVI. I'm sure there are other differences too, but these are the ones that I remember.

Pete

Charlie, Interesting that you say Pete has a 20% increase in quality with the 5910 over the 5900 considering that the 5910 is over a 200% increase in price , is it really worth it ? You can now buy a 5900 for around $1000.