For some reason I only receive closed caption on High Definition stations. If I bypass the cable box, I get the close caption just fine. I do have the new Motorola 6214 DVR unit. My other TV uses the Motorola 5100 and that box used to be able to show Closed Caption until recently when the new software was uploaded to it by Comcast and now I get no closed caption.

When I called Comcast, the first person told me that this is a function of the TV (my HD monitor has no tuner) but I insisted that that is not the case. I called back few minutes later and spoke to another person that assured me that there is a caption available on all channels including the analog channels. A technician was sent who did nothing and he had no clue and said that this is the way it is.

As a hearing impaired, I do not know where to turn or what to do. I could just downgrade to basic service with out the cable box on one of my TV sets but my expensive plasma monitor would then be useless to me.

I guess that the reason I am posting this is to find out if anyone else have this problem because if everyone does then there is no point in me calling the Comcast over and over.

So if anyone with the latest software in their Motorola 6214 or 5100 uses the CC and is not getting it as of late on ANY of the non-HD stations, would you please let me know.

Not all the stations broadcast in CC.

You should receive CC on all channels if availavle, HD or not. I too have the 6412 with Comcast and get CC through it on SD and HD channels. However, CC ONLY works if you are using an RF or RCA to the TV. It does not work if you are using HDMI or Component connection. This apparently is a function of the Plasma screen, and not Comcast. Its something im looking for answers to as well, because quality in HDMI is much better. If you use RCA's you should be fine though.

As I am sure you know, on analog, CC is sent on line 21 of the picture and is recovered within the TV. With HD, the CC is sent as a separate packet and it has to be inserted by the HD encoder and then decoded by either the STB or the TV. If your TV has no tuner, then the STB has to be able to decode CC, that is the law. Sounds like Comcast has hosed something out in your box.

I had a similar issue and the way I fixed it on my Comcast 6412 is I turned the unit off and hit the Menu Button. I could then setup the CC directly in the DVR and it pumped the CC info over the HDMI cable along with the Video Signal in High Def. Now there was a bug that caused the CC info to be garbled on the DVR and my Cable Card TV could Decode it fine but thats another topic.:)

Jason

For some reason I only receive closed caption on High Definition stations. If I bypass the cable box, I get the close caption just fine. I do have the new Motorola 6214 DVR unit. My other TV uses the Motorola 5100 and that box used to be able to show Closed Caption until recently when the new software was uploaded to it by Comcast and now I get no closed caption.

So if anyone with the latest software in their Motorola 6214 or 5100 uses the CC and is not getting it as of late on ANY of the non-HD stations, would you please let me know.

Not all the stations broadcast in CC.

Usually you can go into the cable box menu and find something that activates cc.

I had a similar issue and the way I fixed it on my Comcast 6412 is I turned the unit off and hit the Menu Button. I could then setup the CC directly in the DVR and it pumped the CC info over the HDMI cable along with the Video Signal in High Def. Now there was a bug that caused the CC info to be garbled on the DVR and my Cable Card TV could Decode it fine but thats another topic.:)

Jason

Thanks for this tip Jason. I had the same problem and searched every available option in the setup screens but surprisingly it doesn't have a way to turn the CC on and off. It sucks that it must be done on the front panel of the DVR because my wife likes the captions but I don't so we turn them on and off quite a bit. Anyway, thanks for the help.

Newbie here in Denver - Sept. 06 have same CC problem - - can see captions on HD channels, but not on SD. Comcast tech here yesterday, stumped, left saying he'd check on it. Have Motorola 6412 box. Not sure of my cables to our Panasonic HD monitor only.

Any solutions identified? Have complained to Comcast to no avail.
Thanks in advance

You should receive CC on all channels if availavle, HD or not. I too have the 6412 with Comcast and get CC through it on SD and HD channels. However, CC ONLY works if you are using an RF or RCA to the TV. It does not work if you are using HDMI or Component connection. This apparently is a function of the Plasma screen, and not Comcast. Its something im looking for answers to as well, because quality in HDMI is much better. If you use RCA's you should be fine though.

Newbie here in Denver - Sept. 06 have same CC problem - - can see captions on HD channels, but not on SD. Comcast tech here yesterday, stumped, left saying he'd check on it. Have Motorola 6412 box. Not sure of my cables to our Panasonic HD monitor only.

Any solutions identified? Have complained to Comcast to no avail.
Thanks in advance
I have a Series 2 Motorola 6412 HD-DVR; connected with component cables. Go to the setup menu (press menu button on remote with power off) and change the 4:3 SD setting to either off or 480p. For some reason, I don't get captions for the SD channels when it is set to 480i. Weird, but this can probably be chalked up to buggy firmware in the Motorola box. But I am not clear on what off, 480i, or 480p really means for the analog and digital SD channels.

Wow - that fixed it. Just switched the 6412 HD-DVR box MENU 4:3 Override setting to "OFF" and now CC works on the SD channels. Have notified Comcast that they owe "afiggatt" at least 1000 On-Demand free movie passes.... Thanks a bunch.

With the 4:3 setting at "OFF", I can't zoom, full, or justify my Panasonic monitor's picture. With it set to "480p" I still get CC and can zoom, full, etc. the picture OK.

Roger

Have notified Comcast that they owe "afiggatt" at least 1000 On-Demand free movie passes.... Thanks a bunch.

With the 4:3 setting at "OFF", I can't zoom, full, or justify my Panasonic monitor's picture. With it set to "480p" I still get CC and can zoom, full, etc. the picture OK.
Glad that I could be of help. Tell Comcast I want them to hurry up and add more HD channels to the Adelphia franchises that they took over back on August 1. :D

It has been a while since I tried out all the 4:3 override settings and I can't find the manuals for the 6412 (which I as recall was barely useful). I think the 4:3 override "off" setting results in a upconverted HD output for the SD channels and the Panny does not zoom for HD signals. So 480p is the best compromise for the Motorola output if you want CCs. The best that can be said for the Motorola 6412s is that they work, but they have a lot of quirks and bugs.

The members of this forum helped me get my closed captioning working with the Motorola cable box and HDTV LCD set.

BUT, now I have a very irritating problem that I didn't have before with SD. It doesn't happen all of the time, but I'd say it happens at least 40% of the time, which is unacceptably high.

What happens, very simply, is that the captions are WAY out of synch with the speech, usually much faster, sometimes much slower. I do not have this problem AT ALL with my "old" analog TV connected directly to the cable without any box; it is only when I use my fancy LCD HDTV which connects through a Motorola cable box to the actual cable that I experience this problem.

Interestingly enough, when I switch my TV input from "component" ( component cables from box ) to cable ( coaxial from box ), the picture becomes worse, but the captions do not have the annoying delays. Also, this turns off the digital captioning and reverts to analog captions.

What in the blazes is up with this annoying delay/jump ahead of the captions?

Thanks for this tip Jason. I had the same problem and searched every available option in the setup screens but surprisingly it doesn't have a way to turn the CC on and off. It sucks that it must be done on the front panel of the DVR because my wife likes the captions but I don't so we turn them on and off quite a bit. Anyway, thanks for the help.

The problem is that the firmware people have apparently decided that peolle will either want the captions always on or always off.


Wha tis going on as far as I can tell is that you are not sending "CC" (closed captions), but OPEN captions once you set the set top box to captions on. IE the set top box is decoding the captions and inserting them as part of the picture. thereby the tv/display cannot turn them off. Newer dispalys if accepting cc (vs open captions) will only activate on mute!

This is annoying as heck to me since I like to watch late at night and have just a tiny bit of hearing loss. I like to have the volume low but not off late at night. for me in the day, my wife and kids don't need he captions when they watch. By using the open captions on the set top via the front panel menu, it is really pain to just turn them on or off.

So I don't have an answer but keep in mind the set top boxes controls change to "open" captions and your tv then cant turn them off.

Again I think the designers were thinking sound would be off always (like in a noisy or public place) or completely deaf person, and not anything else.

AS others have noted this was not the case with analog sets.

I am also dealing with out-of-sync, truncated and incomplete "open captions" in HD. I have a Motorola 6214-III dual tuner cable box from Insight Communications. A techie at Motorola denied there were any known issues regarding captioning but when I went down to Insight and whined & yelled their tech supervisor claimed to have gotten on the line with Motorola who then admitted it was an unresolved problem with their unit.

Someone at Insight suggested I try using a cable card for my HD source (My Mitsubishi LCD has a card slot) in conjunction with a cable box to get program guides and "on demand" service.

BTW, caption problems do not occur on all channels but it does not seem to be a function of the original signal: HBO movies and series play fine from the "On Demand" (99) channel but not on its regular (700 numbered) or HD (900 numbered) channels.

The local Insight people claim I am the only one who has raised this issue with them. Is there anyone else out there from the Cincinnati/NKY area who uses Insight?

For some reason I only receive closed caption on High Definition stations.I just recently figured this out for myself. I have a Motorola DCT3416 (identical for closed captioning purposes to your DCT6412), connected to a Samsung HL-S5087W via both HDMI and component video cables. While I would always get CC via HDMI, I would only get closed captions via component video cables when watching HD channels. I had the DCT3416 configured with 4:3 OVERRIDE set to 480I. Changing this to OFF seems to have made the difference -- I now am receiving closed captions via component video on SD channels.

My other TV uses the Motorola 5100 and that box used to be able to show Closed Caption until recently when the new software was uploaded to it by Comcast and now I get no closed caption.It is very possible than when new software was loaded into the box, the closed captioning configuration in the Set-up was changed.

When I called Comcast, the first person told me that this is a function of the TV (my HD monitor has no tuner) but I insisted that that is not the case. I called back few minutes later and spoke to another person that assured me that there is a caption available on all channels including the analog channels. A technician was sent who did nothing and he had no clue and said that this is the way it is.Very few customers need closed captions, so unfortunately, the staff get inadequate training on it. That's why we're here in this forum, to bridge the gap from what the standard service is to address the special needs that each of us may have. (I remember having the delight of showing the folks in the Comcast office that their cable box there actually did support closed captioning -- they had no idea.)

I have found this web site very helpful. It has a lot of information about the CC options

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Category:How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR

The manual for my new Panasonic TH42PX6U says that closed captions will not work with HDMI. I found that hard to believe but after reading these posts I am starting to worry. I am getting a DVR that I planned to use with HDMI and was also planning to get an Oppo DVD player. They have HDMI but no component outputs.

Is anyone with a Panasonic HDTV getting CC over HDMI? If so, what are the source and model of TV?

HDMI only carries the generated digital picture (and audio). With a HDMI connection, the closed captions are generated by the set top box and the DVD player. The set top box and DVR are straightforward - you turn on captions in the set up menu. If you get a Motorola DVR, you have to turn the box off to access the setup menu for the signal output and the captions. The DVD player is a different matter. You can display subtitles, but some player support CC through the HDMI and some do not.

My DVD player doesn't even support CC through component video, as far as I can tell.

I have the new Oppo 1080p DVD player with a Mitsubishi HDTV. DVDs that have subtitles encoded on them will play fine over the HDMI connection. You can turn on subtitles via a button on the Oppo remote without having to wade through DVD menus. As far as I know, there are no DVD/HDTV combinations that provide "closed caption" as opposed to "subtitles" via the HDMI connector. But my DVDs look GREAT played on my Oppo.

That's one thing I don't understand about my new DVD player. There is no way to turn on Closed Captions in it. :confused:

I need CC due to hearing loss. I just ordered a Mitsubishi LCD TV. It provides both analog and digital CC service "except at the component and HDMI inputs".

I intend to upgrade my Dish System to a 622 which privides the CC service. Am I in error on this? I thought that the CC is combined with the HD signal at the set top box. I would have the problem as well with my DVD player.

tnx

I need CC due to hearing loss. I just ordered a Mitsubishi LCD TV. It provides both analog and digital CC service "except at the component and HDMI inputs".

I intend to upgrade my Dish System to a 622 which privides the CC service. Am I in error on this? I thought that the CC is combined with the HD signal at the set top box. I would have the problem as well with my DVD player.
The captions are generated by the set top box for digital channels. You should have a caption option in the set up menu for the STB regardless of the model.

As for the DVD player, that is more complicated. The DVD player should display sub-titles, but CC for an upconverting DVD player through the HDMI is not something that all DVD players do. Look for info in the DVD player forum or even contact the manufacturer of the DVD player and hope you find a CSR who has a clue on the subject.

Appreciate the message back. The 622 stb for the Dish system does have the captioning option. The question is in regards to the 46231. The manual states that the "TV cannot decode closed captions received on component or HDMI inputs".

Will the stb combine the CC with the HD signal and there is no requirement for any decoding by the TV itself?

tnx again

Appreciate the message back. The 622 stb for the Dish system does have the captioning option. The question is in regards to the 46231. The manual states that the "TV cannot decode closed captions received on component or HDMI inputs".

Will the stb combine the CC with the HD signal and there is no requirement for any decoding by the TV itself?
Yes. The closed captions are part of the digital data stream and have to be decoded and generated by the receiver/decoder which for Dish is the STB. If you use an internal ATSC tuner in the HD TV for over the air reception of your local digital broadcast stations, then you will turn on CC in the digital tuner set up menu, because the internal tuner is doing the decoding and generating the picture.

For background, do a wikipedia or google search for EIA-708 caption format. This replaces the older EIA-608 format where the caption data was/is embedded in the digital video data in a matter comparable to analog.

Yes. The closed captions are part of the digital data stream and have to be decoded and generated by the receiver/decoder which for Dish is the STB. If you use an internal ATSC tuner in the HD TV for over the air reception of your local digital broadcast stations, then you will turn on CC in the digital tuner set up menu, because the internal tuner is doing the decoding and generating the picture.

For background, do a wikipedia or google search for EIA-708 caption format. This replaces the older EIA-608 format where the caption data was/is embedded in the digital video data in a matter comparable to analog.

So whatever is sent from the stb will be on the screen of the HDTV, including the captioning. The Signal is complete with the CC. The TV has nothing to do with having to overlay the CC to the picture.

Appreciate it.

Actually, at that point, they're not closed captions anymore -- they're open captions.

Have Spectroniq 37" TV, widescreen. Have Comcast, Model 5100. Closed captioning will not work when I am using On Demand for certain stations, i.e. Starz & Showtime. HBO works fine.

Sometimes also captioning starts out visible but disappears in about 30 seconds. Also othertimes it is cut off on the top of the screen. This can happen with most any channel at any time, not just On Demand.

We also have a Sony TV that works fine, no problems with CC which is also connected to Comcast, Model 5100.

We do not understand what the problem is. Comcast is of no help.

Actually, at that point, they're not closed captions anymore -- they're open captions.

Beat me to it...

Over here we have a couple of different "subtitling" standards.

1. World Systems Teletext in VBI (similar to the analogue closed caption system). These are mainly used on analogue OTA, and are assigned a page number (in the UK usually p888) to select, as Teletext carries other info, like TV listings, news stories, financial news, recipes, airport arrivals etc. These are almost universally closed captions, with the TV optionally decoding / displaying them.

2. World Systems Teletext via packet. These are the same as the above, but carried via packets in an MPEG2 transport stream. They can either be inserted as open captions burned into the video output from a receiver, or transcoded to the VBI for decoding and display by a TV (see 1.), along with other WST services.

3. DVB subtitles. These are bitmap graphics (like DVD subtitles?) rather than character graphics (WST is a 1970s 40x25 or 20x25 character graphcs based system), and are also sent as packet data. They are almost universally burnt in by an external set top box, turning them into open subtitles, or decoded internally in an IDTV.

Almost every set top box or TV either has a "Subtitles" button or menu option to quickly switch them on or off.

Hi
Thanks for your reply, but don't understand what to do. Have tried all the sub menus in the tv setup and the cable setup, and the problem still exists. Some channels work fine all the time and some start out working fine then captioning disappears. My cable company has sent two techs and they could not correct the problem. They have changed the set top cable box twice, still no help. I am at a loss.
Thanks

Signal problems can also be traced back to bad cable... changing the box won't help in such cases.

chajo,

Your TV is a what I would consider a no-name brand. I would take it back and stick with the name brands. Even still, that is no guarantee. I had a Samsung plasma - it would start displaying CC for a while and then cut off completely (just plain ol analog and EIA 608 captions). Took it back. I got a Panasonic plasma panel and it's been working perfectly since - both ATSC closed captioning and analog closed captioning are working flawlessly.

As a rule, I stay away from the no-names because I believe that they are marginal in many areas, particularly with accessibility features. Just to prove my point and that I'm not spouting some mindless drivel - I had a DVD player manufactured by some obscure Chinese company. When I played back DVD's with closed captions (the line 21 format, not subtitles, mind you) - the DVD player stripped the line 21 data and the TV never received anything to decode. Piece of junk for sure.

Of course, what's junk to me is someone else's pride and joy - so YMMV.

By the way, I do have HD on my Sony Grand Wega III LCD projection TV. Here is my experience so far:

(1) Closed captioning works for NTSC programming fed through the component input at 480i. This is a pleasant surprise.
(2) DVI input (this was before HDMI was widespread) does not support CC decoding (of course, that was expected)
(3) I have Comcast HD programming with the original 6400 series set top box (before DVR). Early on, I got working CC decoding on my HD channels. At some point, a firmware update screwed everything up. What was working doesn't work so great now or is somewhat working. I didn't even bother calling Comcast - I've had run-ins with them in the past definitely did not want to get into something as obscure as this issue! Frustrating, to say the least!

In any event - my solution to my CC woes was to buy the Samsung HB-260F set top box. It does closed captioning for my ATSC channels flawlessly and I let this STB do all my CC decoding and not the TV or the cable box (except for the analog channels - that's fine still).

Was wondering if someone could help me with this. First of all I want to thank everyone on this forum...without you guys I would never have been able to get captions on my new samsung HDTV. I'm hearing impaired so this was a big deal for me. My question is this...how do I get the menu back on after having accessed it for the first time? I turned off the box and hit "menu" the first time and put captions on and set the 4:3 to 480p. Then when i tried to go back a few mins later to take the captions off it wouldn't let me access the menu. I have my tv hooked up through HDMI if that makes a difference. It's a series 3 6412 DVR box. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

It's not easy to get into that menu. Be persistent. You're not doing anything wrong. Just keep trying.

You may want to try it with your television hooked up to the box using component video. That seems to help make learning the correct timing a bit easier.

If i use component cables won't that sacrifice some of the picture quality as opposed to using the HDMI cable? I press menu and the screen flickers but the menu doesn't come up. I just have to keep trying until I get the menu I guess huh?

Branden,

I have never had the problem you are discussing but it sounds like you may be hitting the Menu key too much so it is coming up and then turning back off. You only need to hit the Menu button once and then wait about 3 seconds to see if the command worked.

If you are still having the trouble, I recommend unplugging the box and then plugging it back in. Then turn it on. Turn it off (with the power button, remote or front of box work). Then press Menu on the remote or front of box.

Regarding HDMI vs. Component, most people agree there is little if any improvement in picture quality when going from Component to HDMI. Some people argue Component is better. I can tell a slight difference when I compare the PQ w/HDMI and Component but I wouldn't say one is better than the other.

Bicker and Adam thanks so much for the help. It takes a while sometimes but I have been able to get the menu button up again. Thanks!! I already have the HDMI cable so I'll just stick with that for the time being. I got an extra one when I ordered my Oppo Upconverting DVD player so I didn't have to shell out any money for any cables.

I have a 62 inch sony projectiion tv with high resolution. I can no longer use the remote control (the infored on tv is shot) I cannot use the close captioning because it can only be used with the remote. I brought DV1-AV Closed Caption/V-Chip Decoder but it isnt compatiable with the special dishtv receiver. It has a recording option in it. What else can I do. I can no longer watch tv because I need the close captioning.

I have a 62 inch sony projectiion tv with high resolution. I can no longer use the remote control (the infored on tv is shot) I cannot use the close captioning because it can only be used with the remote. I brought DV1-AV Closed Caption/V-Chip Decoder but it isnt compatiable with the special dishtv receiver. It has a recording option in it. What else can I do. I can no longer watch tv because I need the close captioning.

On my Sony, you can enable the closed captions using the onscreen menu, which is accessible through the front panel controls on the TV. Have you tried that?

On my Sony, you can enable the closed captions using the onscreen menu, which is accessible through the front panel controls on the TV. Have you tried that?


Yes and it doesn't have a close caption option. I called sony and was told that the only way to use that option is through the remote control.

Hi guys, I am having problems displaying closed captions on my panasonic TH-50PX60U using a Dish model 6000.

Whenever I switch to HD I can't get any closed captions from any channel, but if I switch to SD then I can get the closed captions from all channels. Is there a way to display CC through component on HD mode on all channels?

Thanks.

Hi guys, I am having problems displaying closed captions on my panasonic TH-50PX60U using a Dish model 6000.

Whenever I switch to HD I can't get any closed captions from any channel, but if I switch to SD then I can get the closed captions from all channels. Is there a way to display CC through component on HD mode on all channels?

Thanks.

Check out this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9739730&&#post9739730

Hi guys, I am having problems displaying closed captions on my panasonic TH-50PX60U using a Dish model 6000.

Whenever I switch to HD I can't get any closed captions from any channel, but if I switch to SD then I can get the closed captions from all channels. Is there a way to display CC through component on HD mode on all channels?

Thanks.
Foxeng already linked to an earlier post of mine. I suspect you have a component (analog) cable connecting the Dish 6000 and the Panasonic TV and that you have CC enabled in the TV - correct? In this scenario, the STB is generating Line 21 caption data in the analog NTSC 480i data sent to the TV for backward compatibility. But for the HD channels, the embedded captioning signal is not being generated by the STB. To get captioning for all channels, turn on captioning at the Dish 6000 STB and off at the TV. For digital systems, the captions are generated at the decoder/tuner point in the system. For your setup, that is the satellite box. If you use the ATSC tuner in the Panasonic TV (nice TV, BTW) to get your local broadcast stations, then you turn on the CC in the ATSC tuner menu.

Hope this makes sense!

Foxeng already linked to an earlier post of mine. I suspect you have a component (analog) cable connecting the Dish 6000 and the Panasonic TV and that you have CC enabled in the TV - correct? In this scenario, the STB is generating Line 21 caption data in the analog NTSC 480i data sent to the TV for backward compatibility. But for the HD channels, the embedded captioning signal is not being generated by the STB. To get captioning for all channels, turn on captioning at the Dish 6000 STB and off at the TV. For digital systems, the captions are generated at the decoder/tuner point in the system. For your setup, that is the satellite box. If you use the ATSC tuner in the Panasonic TV (nice TV, BTW) to get your local broadcast stations, then you turn on the CC in the ATSC tuner menu.

Hope this makes sense!

Yes, I do have a component cable connecting the Dish 6000 and I have CC enabled in my TV. I've already tried looking for an option on the Dish 6000 but I can't seem to find anything on CCs. As you said, if I switch to SD and receive my signal in 480i the CCs work on ALL channels but this is not the case if I am receiving 1080i. Any ideas where to look for the CCs in the Dish 6000? Thanks again.

Yes, I do have a component cable connecting the Dish 6000 and I have CC enabled in my TV. I've already tried looking for an option on the Dish 6000 but I can't seem to find anything on CCs. As you said, if I switch to SD and receive my signal in 480i the CCs work on ALL channels but this is not the case if I am receiving 1080i. Any ideas where to look for the CCs in the Dish 6000? Thanks again.
I am not familiar with the Dish 6000. The caption controls may be in an initial setup menu for setting the HD and SD output which is how the Motorola DVR and STB work. Ask in the Dish forums, call Dish, or find a manual (printed or on-line). A quick check of the Dish website has the 6000U manuals here: http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/user_guides_and_manuals/receivers/6000/index.shtml.

I am not familiar with the Dish 6000. The caption controls may be in an initial setup menu for setting the HD and SD output which is how the Motorola DVR and STB work. Ask in the Dish forums, call Dish, or find a manual (printed or on-line). A quick check of the Dish website has the 6000U manuals here: http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/user_guides_and_manuals/receivers/6000/index.shtml.

Thank you very much!

Hi - I have a SA3250HD and a Sharp LC-32D43U and Time Warner Cable Houston (soon to be Comcast). I have "Caption Off/On/On with Mute" set in the STB and the Sharp on "Input 1" (component). I get captions fine on all cable channels (the ones that provide them anyway) except Encore movies ("Movies Plus" on TWC, 400 - 406, I think). For those, I have to switch to TV input (Channel 3) and set captions on for the Sharp.

I called Time Warner and this was the first they'd heard of it. They're supposed to call me back but I wanted to see if anyone here has run into the same thing. TIA.

Bump...

Thanks to Branden826 with his suggestions/hints regarding turning on CC (ie. accessing the menu while the cable box/unit was off).

I'm using a Comcast Cable/PVR/DVR (Motorola DCH3416) which has an HDMI output. When I recently bought a Sony TV (HDTV), I also bought an HDMI cable and used it to connect my Motorola Comcast Cable/PVR/DVR. The HD channels look fantastic on the HDTV, but the Close Caption (CC) did not show-up.

Please google the DCH3416 user guide (PDF). There should be one on the motorola site. The file name is DCH3416_User_Guide_537529-001-c.pdf. See Page 11 of this guide.

Initially the idea accessing the DCH3416 menu while the box was turned-off sounded strange, specially when the DCH3416 box did not have an On/Off switch. The front panel of the DCH3416 box did have a number of small buttons, including one called "Power" and another called "Menu". The Power button just puts the unit into Stand-By mode (not really powered off).

The following is the summary of steps I followed to enable closed caption on the DCH3416 box:
(1) Turn off the TV.
(2) Press the Power button on the front panel of the DCH3416 unit to bring the unit into Stand-By mode.
(3) Unplug the power cable from behind the unit to truly power-off the unit.
(4) Turn the TV back again (should just be blank screen)
(5) Connect the power cable to the DCH3416 unit and quickly press the Menu button on the front panel of the unit.
(6) If all goes well, there will appear a rough looking screen on your TV titled "User Setting Status". This is the same menu as shown on Page 11 of the DCH3416 user guide (see above URL to get the PDF file). NOTE: If this does not work immediately, try steps (3) to (5) a few more times.
(7) Notice that item "Closed Caption" is Disabled.
(8) Use the Remote of DCH3416 unit to scroll down (using up/down buttons) to the "Closed Caption" line. Press the right arrow on the Remote to toggle this item to be "Enabled".
(9) Then press the "Menu" button on the front panel of the DCH3416 unit to get out of the "User Setting Status" screen. This saves your settings.
(10) Press the "Power" button on the front panel of the DCH3416 unit to bring the unit out of Stan-By mode into full operation. The close caption should now work.

Hope this helps.

Thanks to Branden826 with his suggestions/hints regarding turning on CC (ie. accessing the menu while the cable box/unit was off).

I'm using a Comcast Cable/PVR/DVR (Motorola DCH3416) which has an HDMI output. When I recently bought a Sony TV (HDTV), I also bought an HDMI cable and used it to connect my Motorola Comcast Cable/PVR/DVR. The HD channels look fantastic on the HDTV, but the Close Caption (CC) did not show-up.

Please google the DCH3416 user guide (PDF). There should be one on the motorola site. The file name is DCH3416_User_Guide_537529-001-c.pdf. See Page 11 of this guide.

Initially the idea accessing the DCH3416 menu while the box was turned-off sounded strange, specially when the DCH3416 box did not have an On/Off switch. The front panel of the DCH3416 box did have a number of small buttons, including one called "Power" and another called "Menu". The Power button just puts the unit into Stand-By mode (not really powered off).

The following is the summary of steps I followed to enable closed caption on the DCH3416 box:
(1) Turn off the TV.
(2) Press the Power button on the front panel of the DCH3416 unit to bring the unit into Stand-By mode.
(3) Unplug the power cable from behind the unit to truly power-off the unit.
(4) Turn the TV back again (should just be blank screen)
(5) Connect the power cable to the DCH3416 unit and quickly press the Menu button on the front panel of the unit.
(6) If all goes well, there will appear a rough looking screen on your TV titled "User Setting Status". This is the same menu as shown on Page 11 of the DCH3416 user guide (see above URL to get the PDF file). NOTE: If this does not work immediately, try steps (3) to (5) a few more times.
(7) Notice that item "Closed Caption" is Disabled.
(8) Use the Remote of DCH3416 unit to scroll down (using up/down buttons) to the "Closed Caption" line. Press the right arrow on the Remote to toggle this item to be "Enabled".
(9) Then press the "Menu" button on the front panel of the DCH3416 unit to get out of the "User Setting Status" screen. This saves your settings.
(10) Press the "Power" button on the front panel of the DCH3416 unit to bring the unit out of Stan-By mode into full operation. The close caption should now work.

Hope this helps.

Yes, thanks this works, but requires a similar routine (power/menu/DISABLE) to turn CC off (sigh). I would like to be able to turn CC on/off via the TV as I have always done.
I have a new Sony 1080p HD and the TWC/Moto DCT3416 box hooked up via Component.
I get CC (w/ 3416DVR CC DISABLED) on all SD Channels - using CC1 in the TV's CC Options - But NO CC on any HD channels. Is there any way for the TV to decode CC for all channels (ie, cable box set to DISABLED) - or is TWC not supplying the CC signal for HD channels via Component/HDMI? Very frustrating.

I have a Sharp LC-32D63U LCD TV connected to a Comcast Motorola DCH3416 Digital Cable box with an HDMI cable.

When using the HDMI cable , I'm able to use close caption after enabling the feature in the 3416 menu. Unforunately, the only way to turn captioning off is the disable it in the 3416 menu.

When using component cables, I get CC on analog channels only.

When using RCA cables to the video input, CC works fine on all channels, but the HD quality is greatly diminished.

I have a Sharp LC-32D63U LCD TV connected to a Comcast Motorola DCH3416 Digital Cable box with an HDMI cable.

When using the HDMI cable , I'm able to use close caption after enabling the feature in the 3416 menu. Unforunately, the only way to turn captioning off is the disable it in the 3416 menu.

When using component cables, I get CC on analog channels only.

When using RCA cables to the video input, CC works fine on all channels, but the HD quality is greatly diminished.
What are you trying to do? Do you want closed captions for all channels? What are your settings in the Motorola 3416 STB? For digital systems, you want to turn on the CC at the STB and leave the CC in the TV off. The TV CC only work for a analog 480i input where the caption data is embedded in the signal. In the digital system, the STB or tuner must generate the captions for the screen. The current generation of Motorola STBs and DVRs are very awkward in how they handle CC.

If the Motorola 3416 has the same setup menu as the Motorola 641x DVRs, you should check out this webpage: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Setup. In general, if you want closed captions for SD and HD channels, you should set the 4:3 Override for the SD channels to either off (which I detest because it upscales all the SD channels to HD) or 480p, which I am using for the 6416 DVR on Verizon Fios.

I have the closed captions set to small font size, red font, transparent background, and User settings. I am using a component hook-up because of all the problems that you run into with HDMI and cable boxes.

If by RCA cables, you mean the yellow composite cable, of course HD quality is diminished because it is not HD. Composite cable can only carry 480i, not HD.

Ideally, I'd like to have the capability of turning the CC on or off without having to go into the STB 3416.

Right now using a HDMI cable, I have CC enabled in the stb, with 4:3 overide set to off and cc is being displayed on the tv, on both HD and SD channels.

If I change the 4:3 overide to 480i or 480p the CC still displays on HD and SD. Changing the overide doesn't make any difference.

Thanks for the quick response.

Ideally, I'd like to have the capability of turning the CC on or off without having to go into the STB 3416.

Right now using a HDMI cable, I have CC enabled in the stb, with 4:3 overide set to off and cc is being displayed on the tv, on both HD and SD channels.

If I change the 4:3 overide to 480i or 480p the CC still displays on HD and SD. Changing the overide doesn't make any difference.
Without a firmware upgrade, the Motorola STBs and DVRs don't allow for turning the CC on or off without getting into the setup menu which is only accessible by turning the box off.

Verizon FiOS has new software (the IMG) for the Motorola QIP 6146 DVR which in theory allows me to turn the CC on or off from the IMG menu. However, turning the CC off wipes all the user settings, so when I turned them back on, the DVR displays the default white text on blackground. I have to leave the CC off in the IMG menu and turn CC on with user settings in the 6416 setup menu. I hope a future IMG software release will fix the CC on/off issues.

As for your 3416 generating CC for 4:3 override set to 480i, Motorola may well have fixed that in the newer 341x series so that the STB outputs CC for all 4:3 Override settings which is what it should do.

Thanks, I kind of thought that was the case, but couldn't find anything definitive in either the TV manual or the Cable manual. Kind of frustrating, spending hours trying different settings without success. I can't see myself shutting down the cable box and going into the menu every time I'd like to put Closed Caption on or off.

My problem also concerns CC, but only on the HD CBS channel transmitted by Suddenlink in the Georgetown, TX area. HD ABC, FOX and NBC come in fine? Any thoughts?

My problem also concerns CC, but only on the HD CBS channel transmitted by Suddenlink in the Georgetown, TX area. HD ABC, FOX and NBC come in fine? Any thoughts?

Sounds like a problem at Suddenlink's or the local CBS station's end. Contact them to let them know you're not receiving digital captions on that channel even though you can get HD captions from other channels. Be sure to specify that so they don't blame the problem on your TV. They may not have the digital captions turned on or may need to upgrade their equipment so that it's compatible with all TVs.

Note that some digital captions are showing up via the digital-to-analog converter boxes but they're not showing up on some digital TVs, so closed captions are being sent that cannot be decoded by all TVs---and the solution should be to standardize the closed captions on the program distributor's end. If all else fails, the EEG Caption Legalizer was designed to correct formatting errors in caption data, but that would be purchased and installed by the CBS station.

ana

On the other HD channels, the CC is fairly large font and is at the bottom of the picture. On CBS, occasionly the CC with break through for one or two lines. When it does, it is usually delayed from the speech by one or two seconds, smaller font and is in the upper left of the screen. Extremely frustrating, as I am former military and blew away my hearing years ago. Unfortunately, CBS has most of the shows we are interested in. Thanks, Dana, for your suggestion and I am going to contact Suddenlink and see if they have any answers.

On the other HD channels, the CC is fairly large font and is at the bottom of the picture. On CBS, occasionly the CC with break through for one or two lines. When it does, it is usually delayed from the speech by one or two seconds, smaller font and is in the upper left of the screen. Extremely frustrating, as I am former military and blew away my hearing years ago. Unfortunately, CBS has most of the shows we are interested in. Thanks, Dana, for your suggestion and I am going to contact Suddenlink and see if they have any answers.

Let me point out that the local CBS affiliate needs to be sending out both CEA-708 (digital) and CEA-608 (analog) captions for digital programs. Many engineers don't realize both are required. If they're only sending out CEA-608 captions, your set-top box or TV may be having trouble decoding those CEA-608 captions if it is designed to decode only CEA-708 captions.

FWIW, I get captions just fine on CBS in the Washington, DC area. The local CBS affiliate in your area, SamGrant, might be the source of the problem you're experiencing. Suddenlink still has the responsibility to check out whether it's doing anything on its end to cause a problem with the captions, but you might want try your rabbit ears on your HDTV to see if you get the same problem over the air from the CBS affiliate. If you do, then you can also contact that affiliate yourself to let them know their captions are unwatchable. (You should do everything that the FCC requires for a formal complaint about captions, including noting the name and date of programs with bad captions.)

I would suggest also providing the make and model number of every major piece of equipment used in receiving your television signal, including your HDTV itself, and the fact that you get captions fine on the other local channels (name those channels as well).

There's more guidance about how to write a letter about captioning problems to a station or pay TV service provider at:

http://www.nvrc.org/content.aspx?page=10938&section=5

If the problem is not resolved to your satisfaction, you need to follow up within a certain time frame to the FCC. Go ahead and tell them in the letter that you will follow up with a complaint to the FCC if the caption problems aren't resolved. This tells the station it will be costly for them to ignore the problem, and will "help" the engineer get permission to investigate the problem further. Note that the station absolutely needs to fix this problem anyway, and should do so sooner rather than later, but not enough people are complaining to them directly.

If you yourself use digital captioning from cable or satellite, please look at this new thread that I've set up that discusses how to activate the digital captioning:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036172

That's a thread where we can and need to share information about how to activate the digital captioning on the different boxes so that we'll know how to turn them on if we see an uncaptioned television in a public place and if we want to be able to see the captions.


Dana

Greetings,
I Live in Norway but I am interested in watching North-American TV series on DVD. I am a big fan of a TV series called MacGyver contains 7 seasons and 2 tv movies. The only problem is that only seasons 1-4 are available with Norwegian open subtitles. seasons 5-7 + 2 TV movies are only available on DVD with Closed Captions (which somebody told me 4 months ago or I would never know about cc).
I was also told by person that I'll need to buy a TV with closed caption decoder to watch dvd with cc. So I googled to find a closed caption decoder TV. Panasonic TH-42PX80E Viera was listed from many different web-shops to be Tv with cc decoder so I bought it. I have a Pioneer DV-300-S DVD-player attached with scart cable to Panasonic TV. When I tried to view MacGyver DVDs with cc it did not show cc. I have read here an early post where somebody told to connect to TV-channels antenna. I did it but still no closed captions.
Somebody also said that my DVD player must support cc. How can I find it out?
And what other reasons can be /can be done to solve out this issue such that I can watch MacGyver DVDs with closed caption.
One little information, dont know if this may be important. it is written CBS DVD on MacGyver seasons 5,6,7, +2 Tv Movies.
Please help. Every help will be appreciated.
Thank you
Yngvar

Greetings,
I Live in Norway but I am interested in watching North-American TV series on DVD. I am a big fan of a TV series called MacGyver contains 7 seasons and 2 tv movies. The only problem is that only seasons 1-4 are available with Norwegian open subtitles. seasons 5-7 + 2 TV movies are only available on DVD with Closed Captions (which somebody told me 4 months ago or I would never know about cc).
I was also told by person that I'll need to buy a TV with closed caption decoder to watch dvd with cc. So I googled to find a closed caption decoder TV. Panasonic TH-42PX80E Viera was listed from many different web-shops to be Tv with cc decoder so I bought it. I have a Pioneer DV-300-S DVD-player attached with scart cable to Panasonic TV. When I tried to view MacGyver DVDs with cc it did not show cc. I have read here an early post where somebody told to connect to TV-channels antenna. I did it but still no closed captions.
Somebody also said that my DVD player must support cc. How can I find it out?
And what other reasons can be /can be done to solve out this issue such that I can watch MacGyver DVDs with closed caption.
One little information, dont know if this may be important. it is written CBS DVD on MacGyver seasons 5,6,7, +2 Tv Movies.
Please help. Every help will be appreciated.
Thank you
Yngvar

Wow, you must really, really love MacGyver to buy a TV in order to watch it! :o I will have to try watching some of those programs myself!

I'm not sure about this, but because closed captions are a North America phenomenon, I wonder if they might only show up if you set the DVD setting on your computer's DVD drive or your DVD player to Region 1 (rather than the region for your country). (Most DVD players purchased in Norway might not even have the option to switch to Region 1.)

I don't know anything about scart; that's not something I've familiar with and maybe it's not used in North America. I would wonder if the scart cable would pass through the closed caption data to the Panasonic TV. A better bet would be to try to play the DVD on a computer with a DVD drive, setting it up for Region 1, and to let the software decode the captions. Somebody else may know more about whether a scart cable can pass through closed caption data (which would be CEA-608 caption data, formerly known as EIA-608 data). (If you can instead connect the DVD player to your TV via composite (yellow video) cable, this will pass through any closed caption data that's present.)

Not all DVD software programs will show closed captioning, but the U.S. versions of Windows Media Player can.

Once you see whether you can play closed captions from DVDs on your computer, then you may be able to MacGyver a way to hook up the computer to your TV!


Dana

NTSC closed captions can be sent only via 480i, so make sure you turn off progressive scan and upconversion in your DVD player.

Hey Dana, hey jtbell,
Thanks for your answer and detailed information. jtbell my tv dvd player has default progressive scan off. but what did you mean by upconversion in your DVD player? please specify. Maybe it could be something I could try?
Dana. I tried everything you mentioned.
Because English is not my native language maybe I mixed it with Norwegian when I said Scart-cble. By that I mean that wide cable that is connected to AvConnector (RGB) TV / AV Receiver (written where cable is connected at the back of my dvd player), And connects at the other end to AV1 RGB Video or (choice 2) AV2 RGB, Video, S VIDEO.
Now when you know which connection /cable I meant can you please clearify wheather or not it can transfer closed caption from dvdplayer to panasonic tv.
As for other connection options there are three HDMI behind Panasonic TH-42PX80E TV, with Three coaxial One green colored named "Y", one blue colored named "Pb" and one red colored name "Pr". And 1 white and 1 red for audio in. But there is no Yellow coaxial behind Panaisonic TV you talked about. However there is Yellow coaxial named "Video out" behind DVD-player.
My old (non cc decoder tv) WHich is 7 months old has a Video in yellow coaxial built in but when i connect to it only picture without6 closed caption comes.
Other coaxials behind Pioneer DV-300S DVD player Under component video out are Pb (blue), Pr (red), video out (yellow), Y (green), Digital audio out 1 orange coaxial, and 2 white and red normal audioout coxial.
I have tried all possible combinations but please mention if I have missed anyone or anyone may help.
On my old tv OKI 32TV v32 TD is only out and in coxial with 1 white and red audio in, 1 yellow video in, 1 red and 1 white audio out and 1 yellow video in.
These are deatils. I have tried everything you told before, but if there maybe anything else I can try please be sure to let me know that.
Thank you very much.
Have a pleasant day

Hi all

Closed captions vs DVD subtitles are a very interesting topic in Europe. In Europe we don't use the Closed Captioning system for captions on live TV - we use teletext subtitles (for analogue TV), and DVB subtitles or teletext subtitles (for digital TV), unless, of course, the subtitles are burned into the video signal itself. Teletext on analogue TV uses a much higher bandwith signal than the US closed caption system.

VHS VCRs were not able to record the analogue teletext signal unless they decoded the text subtitles and burned them in (which was an option on some models), and only some S-VHS machines had the bandwith to record the teletext raw data.

As a result, a PAL Closed Captioning system was introduced for prerecorded VHS movies and TV shows. However it was never widespread, and not mandated for inclusion in European TV sets (which almost always had teletext decoders for live subtitles) and only a couple of models of standard decoders were available (and they are now quite rare AIUI). It was NOT the same as NTSC closed caption standard AIUI - as it is carried on a different scan line of the PAL composite/S-video signal?

AIUI US DVD releases can have both Closed Caption subtitles (where the subtitle data track is inserted into the invisible closed caption portion above the top of the screen in the video output for the TV to decode) and DVD subtitles (where extra graphic data is recorded on the DVD and burned into the TV picture by the DVD player on replay, under user control in most cases - though some subtitles are forced on)

Thus for closed captions to be displayed you need both a DVD player that will insert the closed captioning AND a TV with a closed caption decoder.

I'm not sure how widespread closed captioning has ever been on European DVD releases or DVD players. In fact I'm not sure it has ever been used?

Are your McGyver DVDs Region 1 US releases or Region 2 European releases?

If they are R1 releases then they are likely to be 480i (aka "NTSC"), if they are R2 releases then they are likely to be 576i (aka "PAL").

If they are R1 releases then you are going to need both a DVD player that is compatible with US closed captioning and a US closed captioning compatible TV.

If they are R2 releases then I doubt that they carry closed captioning - I'm not sure there is a European DVD closed captioning standard, and instead DVD subtitles are used universally (hence many European DVDs have English and English SDH tracks - with the former intended for those who can hear, and the latter for those who have hearing difficulties, and which would be closed captioned rather than DVD subtitled on a US release)?

SCART is a European standard connector for connecting RGB (similar quality to component but always interlaced SD) and Composite, with stereo audio OR S-video with stereo audio.

I suspect that European multi-region DVD players won't have the closed caption insertion facility - apparently there is usually a "CC" as well as "Subtitle" option in the menus and/or remote control.

Whether your TV has a US or European closed caption decoder I'm not sure - - though I suspect it will be a US caption decoder, as that would be the most useful for a multi-standard set.

jtbell my tv dvd player has default progressive scan off. but what did you mean by upconversion in your DVD player?

Upconversion means to convert 480i to 720p or 1080i for sending to a HD display. If your DVD player has this feature, there should be a setting for the output resolution (480i/p, 720p or 1080i) somewhere in the menus.


can you please clearify wheather or not [SCART] can transfer closed caption from dvdplayer to panasonic tv.

SCART is unknown here in the USA so I can't answer that.

Three coaxial One green colored named "Y", one blue colored named "Pb" and one red colored name "Pr".

That's "component video." It can carry the CC signal provided the resolution is 480i. This is the type of connection that I use for one of the DVD players in my system, specifically so that I can play CC-encoded DVDs. "Composite video" (yellow coaxial) and "S-video" (round multi-pin plug) also can carry CC.

One other note to the OP.

Closed captions have to be enabled on the TV if they are to be displayed, as they are encoded in a hidden bit of the video signal (like Teletext subtitles, but differently) and the TV has to be told to decode them (just like selecting teletext and then page 888, 170 etc.). This may be a CC button on the TV remote, or a menu option?

Hey. How are you guys? Sorry could not answer before now. dmulvany, jtbell and sneals2000 How have you guys learn so much??? I must say that I am impressed. I was not aware of cc for a few months ago.
You are right! You are absolutely right! Those MacGyver DVDs (seasons 5-7 +2 Tv films) are Region 1 US release, bought at Amazon.com (American Branch of Amazon).
My new Tv is Panasonic TH-42PX80E and according to the internet (google) it musty have a cc decoder built in. My DVD-player is Pioneer DV-300S bought also in Norway like the TV (but without knowledge og cc compatibility or even it's existence in December last year). Now my DVD-player was not multi region /Region free /Zone free, but SIba (electronic shop where I purchased this DVD-player) did me a favour and did something I don't know what to it so it became multiregional. Now it can play both NTSC and PAL DVDs without any problem. But does it mean that it shall or should inter penetrate cc from Region 1 MacGYver DVDs (season 5-7+2TVfms).
I have checked both remote control, setup /options of both Panasonic TV And Pioneer DVD-player. I have even searched TVs user manual but found nothing about cc there (althrough I do remember to read word teletext there in manual).
as for component video /(colorful connecting system in red, green, blue, yellow and orange colors) what combination worked for you to receive cc /send out cc from dvd-player?? unelss something can be done here. There may be two options left. I would prefer if you guys could help with second last option.
Which is if you guys could recommend a good DVD- player that can read and send cc and has also other functions like DivX, MP3, DTS and WMA(optional). I use to do my shoping at amazon.com but they have a strict restriction on selling any electronics goods to anywhere outside North America /United States Of America & Canada. But I will be gratefull if you guys can help me choosing because I have a limited reading and hearing capacity of information. And that's the main reason why I need closed caption. Another peoblem with North-American electronic purchases is that go on 110V while we use 230V here in Norway like rest of Europe (except UK Where they use 110V). So if it is a American DVD-player with cc decoder and other things and 230V conversation thats great. if not let me know pplz where I can buy such conversation.
And last but not wanted option is to return the new purchased TV back to gooba as watching cc movies with cc view ability was main reason of buying this new TV. Otherwise I had a TV before.
Please reply with any opinion as I am open to learn new things. Thank you very much for your help and support

I forgot one thing. Preferably DVD player with mention functions and if possible with VHS and recording both dvds (dual-layer) and VHS (if possible).
thanks

somebody? anybody?

Have patience - we don't live all live logged in - particularly on a nice sunny Sunday!

If the DVDs have CCs and the TV has CC decoding, then the DVD player sounds like the weak link.

Sounds like you need either a second US model R1 DVD player just for these discs, or a US multi-region model. My suggestion is you import a really cheap CC compatible DVD player from the US just to play US discs and keep your current player for your European DVDs?

Others here will be able to suggest cheap CC compatible players with 220-240V/50Hz power inputs needed for Europe?

I'm based in the UK so have no expertise in this area...

Is your TV NTSC or PAL? If the TV is PAL, no doubt the CC is getting lost in the conversion from NTSC to PAL, if PAL TVs are even CC capable. If the TV is 220 volt and has a VGA input it's a PAL TV.

Hi all,
How are you doing? Yeah it,s sumer and nice with sunny weather outside these days. I hope that those sunny days last long such that you guys can enjoy them. As for me and MacGyver.
Samijubal my tv goes has VGA in /Video Graphics Array in or in connection from a PC. And it goes on 220V without volt converter, and is bought in Norway (not imported from US). DOes it mean that it is a PAL tv although it can show NTSC dvds?
I have found a DVD player named SYLVANIA DP170SL8 see link below:
http://www.own4ever.com/product_info.php?products_id=69510
Can this DVD-player play DVD with closed caption such that cc is viewed on cc tv with this dvd connected. I know some guy on amazon said something like that, but am not sure. here is the link:
http://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-DP170SL8-Upconverting-Compatible-Player/dp/B000N45W8I******pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1214836556&sr=8-1
If anybody please help me ebfore I buy this dvd-player?? I'll prefer to buy it if I know that it will work. price +25% imprt duty + shipping of course. I am not affraid of using money but too much money for something useless. if its usefull then it may be worth it.
THanks

I checked that link was not working so I am copying text from amazon.com customer review about Sylvania DP170SL8
Thanks for reading and helping.

Most Helpful Customer Reviews


6 of 6 people found the following review helpful:
4.0 out of 5 stars Good, feature rich, player., January 5, 2008
By SJI (NY) - See all my reviews
Pros:

- No problem reading Netflix, or other marginal quality, DVDs
- Two zoom levels, around 200% and 350% of original picture size
- Can enhance picture brightness and turn virtual surround sound on/off while viewing
- Change caption and audio language, including commentary tracks, while viewing (most functions can be performed while watching the program)
- Remembers where you were when you stopped a program or shut the player off, and will resume from that point.
- Video outputs for Analog, component, S-Video, and HDMI
- Audio outputs for both analog and digital sound
- Plays both unprotected and licensed DivX content
- Easy setup, with auto revert test for progressive scan compatibility
- * Allows pass through of closed captioning not encoded as a feature on the disk

* (Some DVDs don't have digital captions programmed on them, but the source copy included closed captioning for televisions that support it. This is often found on DVDs made from television programs, and some low budget movies. Other players I've used don't allow that embedded caption track to reach the set. Playing a Sopranos DVD recently, this type of closed caption wouldn't work with either my Magnavox or new Phillips players. They work fine with the Sylvania units. A very big plus for me)

Cons:

- The on-unit time counter display is a bit too small (need to use the on-screen display)
- Will only play U.S. Region 1, NTSC, format. (very few people will care about this)
- Only comes with analog cables

I now have two different models of Sylvania DVD players. I've used other brands, and although they all have some odd limitations, the Sylvania models com closest to doing everything I need or want. I usually have no sense of brand loyalty, but I'm sticking with players made by this company until the rest finally catch up.

Does your TV, anywhere in its manual, discuss closed caption decoding?

Almost every TV sold in Europe will accept an NTSC signal these days, without requiring conversion, even if it contains a tuner for System BG/DK/I or L PAL/SECAM broadcasts. (It won't have an NTSC M tuner - but will accept NTSC signals via composite, S-video and 60Hz NTSC-timed signals in RGB)

The KEY thing is to find out whether your model of TV will decode closed captions embedded in an NTSC signal. Buying a Closed Caption DVD player will not help if it doesn't.

Can you list the precise model number written on the display? (Some manufacturers use the same core number in all territories, but add a suffix to denote which territory it is sold for)

I have a 2 Toshiba DVD recorders that will do CC from the recorder. If they make recorders that will do CC then there's probably players that will do it too. When the CC is done in the recorder it will work at any resolution and over any connection. When done on the TV CC only works in 480i and won't work over HDMI at any resolution. I can't say for sure that a player or recorder capable of doing CC would work on your TV but I bet it would.

I have a 2 Toshiba DVD recorders that will do CC from the recorder. If they make recorders that will do CC then there's probably players that will do it too. When the CC is done in the recorder it will work at any resolution and over any connection. When done on the TV CC only works in 480i and won't work over HDMI at any resolution. I can't say for sure that a player or recorder capable of doing CC would work on your TV but I bet it would.

So are you saying that commercial DVDs with closed captions - as well as or instead of DVD subtitles - are replayed with your DVD recorder decoding the closed captions and inserting them into the video (rather than requiring the TV to decode and insert them)?

Are you aware of any players that do this - as this would be a real solution to our OPs issues. A DVD player with closed caption decoding built in, in addition to DVD subtitles, would be ideal.

Yes, the Toshiba recorders I have have the CC decoder built into the recorder. It can be turned on in the DVD recorder menus and sent to any TV wheather it does CC or not. One of the recorders is an upconverter and will even send the CC over HDMI. I've never been able to get the CC to work over HDMI any other way, even if the signal is 480i. I don't know of any players that will do the CC but I've never looked for one that will. The OP mentioned a DVD recorder. I don't know if the ones in PAL land would do CC or not.

Yes, the Toshiba recorders I have have the CC decoder built into the recorder. It can be turned on in the DVD recorder menus and sent to any TV wheather it does CC or not. One of the recorders is an upconverter and will even send the CC over HDMI. I've never been able to get the CC to work over HDMI any other way, even if the signal is 480i. I don't know of any players that will do the CC but I've never looked for one that will. The OP mentioned a DVD recorder. I don't know if the ones in PAL land would do CC or not.

Sounds like that would do the trick for the OP as a player for his McGyver DVDs - though as a recorder it is likely to be of limited use unless it records 576/50i content (aka "PAL") as well as 480/60i stuff (aka "NTSC") and any tuner it has internally will be redundant.

Norway uses 576/50i PAL BG with NICAM for analogue OTA broadcasting, along with DVB-T with MPEG4 H264 (even for SD) video and AAC audio for digital OTA, so any NTSC-M and ATSC tuners will be redundant. I believe analogue PAL is due to be switched off quite soon, leaving just DVB-T terrestrially - along with DVB-C for cable and DVB-S/S2 for satellite.

European DVD recorders don't do CC as CC is not used at all in European broadcasting. For analogue TV I believe a couple of models will transcode European teletext subtitles to a DVD subtitle track, and DVB models may do a similar trick with DVB subtitles.

However most people who want to record European shows with subtitles use a DVR these days (as most models record the subtitle data - either teletext or DVB subs - as a data stream along with the video and audio) - and then if they want to archive, they burn to DVD by replaying on their DVR with the subtitles displayed.

My recorders are '05 and '04 models. I don't know if the current models will still do CC or not. Most recorders sold here don't have tuners anymore since they are required to have an ATSC tuner or no tuner at all with the upcoming switch to digital in February. The more expensive models have an ATSC tuner, the cheaper ones don't have any tuner. I doubt the tunerless recorders will do CC. My main recorder is a Toshiba D-R4, which I know for sure will do CC. They can be bought on Ebay in the U.S. for a reasonable price. I don't know how many sellers, if any, would ship overseas.

Thanks. I have tried ebay but no seller seems interested in selling International. Can anybody please help in doing that? I can pay for the services. :)

The only D-R4 I see on Ebay in the U.S. right now is one that doesn't work. The D-R400 and R410 are tunerless models that I doubt would do CC.

Looking around on the internet I saw a post from someone saying the Toshiba SD3950 DVD player has a built in CC decoder. They even said it was better than TV decoders.

Hi,
Same problem with This Toshiba SD3950. Can't find somebody to export it to me. What function makes sure that cc works from a dvd player?
CAn you find any models from here that will work with cc for sure:
http://www.world-import.com/index.htm
if not can somebody purchase and ship me item I will pay all expenditures and something extra to the person who helps me. How about that? FIrst come first get then. :)
Thanks

Hi,
Same problem with This Toshiba SD3950. Can't find somebody to export it to me. What function makes sure that cc works from a dvd player?


To ensure that you get CCs from a Region 1 US disc the function you are looking for is "Closed Caption Decoding" or "Closed Caption Insertion". However I suspect this will only be apparent on using the device (or may be visible in a good instruction manual which some manufacturers post on their website)

This is the nearest to a guaranteed solution you will find with the DVD player not only reading the closed caption track of the disc, but decoding AND inserting the text as overlaid graphics into the video signal leaving the DVD player, such that it will display on any TV that accepts the signal the DVD player generates.

(This is different to "closed caption compatible" where the player just reads the track and inserts it into the composite/s-video signal as data for the TV set to decode and insert into the picture - which requires both the DVD player and TV to be US CC compatible)

The advice from others here - who have working closed caption DVD players that insert into video is probably the best. Might be worth posting a question in the DVD Player forum if you haven't? The HDTV Tech area isn't directly relevant to your problem?

I'm afraid I can't help with sourcing - I'm in the UK.

Here's one from that site that says CC decoder. There may be others too.

http://www.world-import.com/yamaha-dvd.htm

I'd contact them first just to make sure it does have a built in CC decoder.

Linking to other threads where more info about working DVD players with captions over HDMI has been posted:


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=699933
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=846346
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=778037

In short Panasonic recorders are the only ones able to do it.

I have a Toshiba DVD recorder with built in CC decoder that will work over HDMI. Panasonic isn't the only one.

I have a Toshiba DVD recorder with built in CC decoder that will work over HDMI. Panasonic isn't the only one.

could you let us know what the model number of your DVD recorder is ?

Toshiba RD-KX50. It's an '04 or '05 model. I don't know if newer models will do CC over HDMI or not. I doubt the tunerless recorders will.

Toshiba RD-KX50. It's an '04 or '05 model. I don't know if newer models will do CC over HDMI or not. I doubt the tunerless recorders will.

The strange thing is, page 159 of the RD-KX50 manual says:

"While the recorder is sending signals in the progressive output format, closed caption is disabled regardless of this setting."

Regardless whether this is true or not, this model is no longer available on the market. I did not get any hits on eebay either.
Does anyone have any insight into the current line of Toshiba recorders ?

They must be talking about CC on the TV which won't work with progressive on. I just went through all this with someone on VideoHelp. It will definitely send CC over HDMI at any resolution when using the decoder in the recorder not the TV decoder.

hitting cable /power/ menu buttons in that order.. it should bring up a screen with hd settings and closed caption...should beable to turn it on there;)

I came here to ask, "Can I hear the sound, and see closed captions, at the same time?"

But now I see there are lots of even more confusing issues re cc & HD. Is there a simple answer to my original question? A complicated answer? (Any answere at all?) Thanks!

I came here to ask, "Can I hear the sound, and see closed captions, at the same time?"

I know that quite a few people have publicly indicated the only way to see captions is to hit the mute button on the remote control. (This misconception was conveyed on "Life" earlier this week.) However, that's not the case.

You'll need to figure out which device is able to decode captions for you. If you're watching television over the air or with a direct caption feed, or if analog caption data is being transmitted to your TV via an inexpensive, non-HD set top box, then your TV would be the device that would decode captions. If not, if you're using an HD set top box and an HDMI cable, then the captions need to be decoded by the set top box.

Assuming your TV needs to decode the captions, if you go into the Menu system for your TV, you should be able to find settings for closed captions and to turn them on all the time. If your remote control has a CC button, you can then use the CC button to turn them off temporarily if you need to.

If your HD box needs to decode the captions, then you may need to check out a thread that I had set up to help people figure out how to enable captioning from different set top boxes at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036172

Some of the set top boxes are very difficult to work with, and the company may not provide the user manual for the box. That lack of information is why the above thread was set up.


Dana

I have read all of the posts on this forum, and I did not see my particular problem in any
of the previous posts.

OK, I have what I think is a unique CC problem on all FOX HD channels that I can get. I am going to give as much info as I can, and I am really frustrated to say the least that I cannot watch FOX HD prime time programming in my living room. Here are the facts:

I have two Sanyo HDTVs. One 26" and one 32". The 26" is just shy of a year old. The
32" is about two and half years old, and this is the TV that has the problem.
I watch HD over the air.
I get two local FOX network stations at my house, KVHP-DT and KBTV-DT. 90% signal
and 70% signal respectively.
CC is set to CC1.
CC is fine on both channels when watching anything other than FOX prime time
network programming.
CC during prime time reverts to a small box big enough for one letter at a time which
flashes for a mili-second one letter at a time.
Every now and then, the CC box will extend out for the last couple of words of a
sentence.
I was able to recieve one other FOX network station KRIV-DT out of Houston the other
night and the CC did the same thing as the two locals. So all three FOX stations are
affected.
All other networks and channels are fine. Local FOX stations are fine except during
network programming.
I have returned all CC options to default to no avail.
I have done an add on scan hoping to have the tuner "re-learn" the channel to no avail.
I have cleared the channel memory and have done a total re-scan to no avail.
I have unplugged the HDTV and let it sit for 10 minutes or so to no avail.
The 26" HDTV CC is fine, It is not affected.
Once again, all other HD channels CC is fine, and local FOX station non network
programming is fine. Only prime time FOX programming is affected.
Sanyo customer service was useless. After explaining that I get my HD OTA, they suggested I turn on the CC on the cable box.
Local FOX engineers are scratching their heads, saying it is not us.
Network digital programming in SD on the sub channel is fine on the 32" HDTV. It just affects the HD programming.

So what could FOX be doing that is different than all of the other networks?
Fox engineers are scratching their heads, and I'm going bald from pulling my hair out.
Any ideas?

Check the firmware version in your Sanyo and then call them and ask if there is a newer version. You may or may not be able to upgrade it yourself.

I have read all of the posts on this forum, and I did not see my particular problem in any
of the previous posts.

OK, I have what I think is a unique CC problem on all FOX HD channels that I can get. I am going to give as much info as I can, and I am really frustrated to say the least that I cannot watch FOX HD prime time programming in my living room. Here are the facts:

I have two Sanyo HDTVs. One 26" and one 32". The 26" is just shy of a year old. The
32" is about two and half years old, and this is the TV that has the problem.
I watch HD over the air.
I get two local FOX network stations at my house, KVHP-DT and KBTV-DT. 90% signal
and 70% signal respectively.
CC is set to CC1.
CC is fine on both channels when watching anything other than FOX prime time
network programming.
CC during prime time reverts to a small box big enough for one letter at a time which
flashes for a mili-second one letter at a time.
Every now and then, the CC box will extend out for the last couple of words of a
sentence.
I was able to recieve one other FOX network station KRIV-DT out of Houston the other
night and the CC did the same thing as the two locals. So all three FOX stations are
affected.
All other networks and channels are fine. Local FOX stations are fine except during
network programming.
I have returned all CC options to default to no avail.
I have done an add on scan hoping to have the tuner "re-learn" the channel to no avail.
I have cleared the channel memory and have done a total re-scan to no avail.
I have unplugged the HDTV and let it sit for 10 minutes or so to no avail.
The 26" HDTV CC is fine, It is not affected.
Once again, all other HD channels CC is fine, and local FOX station non network
programming is fine. Only prime time FOX programming is affected.
Sanyo customer service was useless. After explaining that I get my HD OTA, they suggested I turn on the CC on the cable box.
Local FOX engineers are scratching their heads, saying it is not us.
Network digital programming in SD on the sub channel is fine on the 32" HDTV. It just affects the HD programming.

So what could FOX be doing that is different than all of the other networks?
Fox engineers are scratching their heads, and I'm going bald from pulling my hair out.
Any ideas?

Mallego's suggestion is a good one.


I think that the Fox stations in your area are sending out the caption data in a slightly off-beat fashion that is causing problems for the decoder in your older TV but not your newer TV. If your older TV can be made to mimick the functionality of your new TV though a firmware update, then you might not see the decoding problem any longer.

These Fox stations are likely to be causing problems for other TVs as well, however.

One way of fixing the problem may be for the local Fox stations to use the EEG HD caption legalizer. That device "legalizes" caption data that isn't being sent out properly so that all caption decoders can read the captions. If you go to the EEG web site and look at the documents that they have online, you can see that the company identified more than 33 ways that caption data can be transmitted improperly, and which their device is designed to correct.

The Fox station in DC has had problems with very delayed captions for syndicated programs for years and still hasn't been able to work them out as of last week. The engineer at Fox station WBFF, however, long ago realized that there were problems getting clean captions onto the HD channels and installed the EEG HD Caption Legalizer, which fixed the problems. My DTV equipment can decode the captions for syndicated programs fine from WBFF, but not from WTTG. (I suspect it's likely that EEG may generally know more about how to fix captioning problems on the broadcast side than other companies do, so if there is something else that the station is doing incorrectly, my bet is that EEG would probably help them figure that out.)

(I don't have a financial interest in EEG or other dealings with that company.)


Dana

A long-shot, but at this point, maybe something to work with at least.

I tried to help a poster with a similar situation with a TV that would show only a small box in bottom center. I duplicated that by setting my TV to teletext (TT1) which might be happening there by accident or bad "interpretation" by your rogue TV?

Here's my post for ref. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14884753#post14884753)

Maybe set the rogue TV for TT1 and see what happens, or .... ?????????

FOX sends caption data as part of the encoded stream and it is just passed through at the local level. If the problem was with the network, it would be nationwide and not just local. I would call Sanyo back and try to get someone more knowledgeable that the first person you talked to.

Something else to try is to change the settings to analog captions. Both types of captions will be present on the digital channel and your set may have an easier time with the legacy captions.

Thanks ot all for your suggestions about the CC problem. I will attempt to see what I can do and report back when I know something definitive. Thanks again!

Mallego's suggestion is a good one.


I think that the Fox stations in your area are sending out the caption data in a slightly off-beat fashion that is causing problems for the decoder in your older TV but not your newer TV. If your older TV can be made to mimick the functionality of your new TV though a firmware update, then you might not see the decoding problem any longer.

These Fox stations are likely to be causing problems for other TVs as well, however.

One way of fixing the problem may be for the local Fox stations to use the EEG HD caption legalizer. That device "legalizes" caption data that isn't being sent out properly so that all caption decoders can read the captions. If you go to the EEG web site and look at the documents that they have online, you can see that the company identified more than 33 ways that caption data can be transmitted improperly, and which their device is designed to correct.

The Fox station in DC has had problems with very delayed captions for syndicated programs for years and still hasn't been able to work them out as of last week. The engineer at Fox station WBFF, however, long ago realized that there were problems getting clean captions onto the HD channels and installed the EEG HD Caption Legalizer, which fixed the problems. My DTV equipment can decode the captions for syndicated programs fine from WBFF, but not from WTTG. (I suspect it's likely that EEG may generally know more about how to fix captioning problems on the broadcast side than other companies do, so if there is something else that the station is doing incorrectly, my bet is that EEG would probably help them figure that out.)

(I don't have a financial interest in EEG or other dealings with that company.)


Dana

Hi Dana -

Unfortunately, the EEG box won't work during prime-time. Since the Fox "splicer" is downstream from the EEG Legalizer, anything that it fixed is replaced by data from the HD feed from Fox. It does work really well for the syndicated programming, however.

On a related note, I just got an e-mail from the chief engineer of the Fox station in Syracuse, NY asking about closed captions on the Fox prime-time programming. In it he says that "It is a result of a encoding software upgrade they (Fox) did a few weeks ago."

I guess that it's not just you...

_

Hi Dana -

Unfortunately, the EEG box won't work during prime-time. Since the Fox "splicer" is downstream from the EEG Legalizer, anything that it fixed is replaced by data from the HD feed from Fox. It does work really well for the syndicated programming, however.

On a related note, I just got an e-mail from the chief engineer of the Fox station in Syracuse, NY asking about closed captions on the Fox prime-time programming. In it he says that "It is a result of a encoding software upgrade they (Fox) did a few weeks ago."

I guess that it's not just you...

_

Thanks for clearing up that up about the role of the EEG box, Mark. Would all engineers hook up the EEG box the same way?

I'm confused, though. Are you saying there was a problem with how caption data from Fox primetime programs were formatted and transmitted nationally due to a software upgrade?

Cat Lady---I agree with spwace that it may help to force your Sanyo to show CC1 captions instead of CS1 or Service1 captions----if that's a choice that your TV has. (I can't force my Sharp HDTV to show only CC1 captions, but I *can* force my Samsung HDTV to do that, so HDTVs behave differently in this respect.) I myself have experienced that the CC1 caption data (ATSC CEA-608 captions) may be decoded flawlessly when there are problems with the ATSC-CEA-708 caption data (from the local ABC station).

Dana

Thank you all so much for your input. As I try to resolve the problem, I will keep refering to this thread to see what continuing info y'all can offer. Thanks. :)

That's one thing I don't understand about my new DVD player. There is no way to turn on Closed Captions in it. :confused:

I am having issues with CC not playing on my PS3 with certain DVDs. The Season 1 DVD set indicates on the box and in the menu that CC is available. However, it is not something you turn on and off in the menu. The subtitles button the remote does not turn them on either. I have it connected to my HDTV via component video cables since my Panasonic is pre-HDMI. Any other DVD or BD that can be menu or remote enabled will display the CC. Any ideas?

I am having issues with CC not playing on my PS3 with certain DVDs. The Season 1 DVD set indicates on the box and in the menu that CC is available. However, it is not something you turn on and off in the menu. The subtitles button the remote does not turn them on either. I have it connected to my HDTV via component video cables since my Panasonic is pre-HDMI. Any other DVD or BD that can be menu or remote enabled will display the CC. Any ideas?

Hitting a DVD player's subtitle button has nothing at all to do with closed captions. It will only affect whether the subtitles are shown.

Please note that closed captions are very different from subtitles.

It's not clear that your Panasonic TV has actually shown closed captions from DVDs via the component video input or if you've only seen subtitles from the DVDs. Many people don't make the distinction between subtitles and closed captions, but it's important to do so. Your Panasonic may not be able to decode closed captions via component video input, but then again it may. Presumably you have made sure that the TV's CC1 (analog) captions are on? [If you have your TV set to display only Service1 (digital/advanced) captions, it might not show the analog captions. (The default caption mode should allow decoding of native captions on both analog and digital inputs.)]

Rarely, some DVDs that are labeled as having closed captions don't actually have them. This happened with DVDs of "Sophie's Choice" (which I've never been able to see with captions). Did you try playing the Season 1 DVD on your computer? While not all DVD software has the option to turn on captinos, the free Windows Media Player program does.

It's possible that the PS3 doesn't pass through the line 21 closed captions; there's currently no law requiring such devices to do that.


Dana

Hitting a DVD player's subtitle button has nothing at all to do with closed captions. It will only affect whether the subtitles are shown.

Please note that closed captions are very different from subtitles.

It's not clear that your Panasonic TV has actually shown closed captions from DVDs via the component video input or if you've only seen subtitles from the DVDs. Many people don't make the distinction between subtitles and closed captions, but it's important to do so. Your Panasonic may not be able to decode closed captions via component video input, but then again it may. Presumably you have made sure that the TV's CC1 (analog) captions are on? [If you have your TV set to display only Service1 (digital/advanced) captions, it might not show the analog captions. (The default caption mode should allow decoding of native captions on both analog and digital inputs.)]

Rarely, some DVDs that are labeled as having closed captions don't actually have them. This happened with DVDs of "Sophie's Choice" (which I've never been able to see with captions). Did you try playing the Season 1 DVD on your computer? While not all DVD software has the option to turn on captinos, the free Windows Media Player program does.

It's possible that the PS3 doesn't pass through the line 21 closed captions; there's currently no law requiring such devices to do that.


Dana

Thanks for the explanation. I will try the disks in my laptop when I get home. I understand what you are saying. I think you are correct that my Panasonic is the culprit, despite the fact that this problem originally was discovered by my folks using some crappy, no-name DVD recorder connected to their Samsung plasma HDTV. I will try to find out what type of cable they are using. I think the problem with my equipment is linked to the TV, because the CC adjustments are grayed out for the component video settings. I guess I am so used to selecting English as a subtitle choice is how I am confusing them with cc. Thanks for the assistance!

steve

Thanks for the explanation. I will try the disks in my laptop when I get home. I understand what you are saying. I think you are correct that my Panasonic is the culprit, despite the fact that this problem originally was discovered by my folks using some crappy, no-name DVD recorder connected to their Samsung plasma HDTV. I will try to find out what type of cable they are using. I think the problem with my equipment is linked to the TV, because the CC adjustments are grayed out for the component video settings. I guess I am so used to selecting English as a subtitle choice is how I am confusing them with cc. Thanks for the assistance!

steve


The Samsung plasma HDTV is *very* likely not to be able to decode caption data via the component video input. The Panasonic *may* be able to do that. Don't assume just yet that it's the TV's fault; it sounds like the Panasonic isn't detecting any CC data to decode.

Remember that captions can't be decoded via the component video input if the video resolution is higher than 480i (interlaced), so if your PS3 is automatically upconverting the video, that might be why you can't get captions decoded. If you can force the PS3 to send the video at 480i, that might help.

You'll need to do some troubleshooting to figure out what's going on. If you could borrow someone's DVD player with component video and turn off progressive scanning and upconversion on the player, you could figure out if your Panasonic TV can decode captions via component video. If it can, then the PS3 device may be stripping the caption data on the component video output. As an alternative, you could use your laptop with captioned DVDs that don't have English subtitles.

Dana

Thanks for clearing up that up about the role of the EEG box, Mark. Would all engineers hook up the EEG box the same way?

I'm confused, though. Are you saying there was a problem with how caption data from Fox primetime programs were formatted and transmitted nationally due to a software upgrade?

Cat Lady---I agree with spwace that it may help to force your Sanyo to show CC1 captions instead of CS1 or Service1 captions----if that's a choice that your TV has. (I can't force my Sharp HDTV to show only CC1 captions, but I *can* force my Samsung HDTV to do that, so HDTVs behave differently in this respect.) I myself have experienced that the CC1 caption data (ATSC CEA-608 captions) may be decoded flawlessly when there are problems with the ATSC-CEA-708 caption data (from the local ABC station).

Dana

I think the issue with Fox is that they run a VERY different affiliate/network distribution model to the other networks.

ABC, NBC and CBS distribute a network feed to the local affiliate, but that local affiliate decodes it, adds local shows at some times, and then re-encodes it. This means that the EEG legaliser could be placed just before the final ATSC encoder such that it processed both network and local caption content, as that encoder path is used all the time.

Fox doesn't do this - and instead distribute a final encode network feed to their affiliates. When the station is showing networked shows there is no local decoding and recoding going on - the streams Fox distribute are simply passed straight through to the viewer - so AIUI the closed captions, just like the audio and video, are totally untouched by the local station's equipment. The station's local encoder and other equipment is only "in circuit" during local programming when the local encoder output (which COULD be passed through a local EEG device) is "spliced" in to the broadcast chain, replacing the network feeds, so any local legaliser would only be legalising locally inserted content.

Fox take this approach to avoid every local station needing HD decoders and HD switching gear for their HD feed, and it also guarantees a level of quality for all network content irrespective of the local station's encoder, removing picture quality losses and audio metadata errors etc., and also reducing the bandwith required for distribution (as you can distribute at a lower bitrate if you don't have a further MPEG2 decode/recode process downstream - as ABC/NBC/CBS do) However it also means that any network errors are passed by all stations...

I think the issue with Fox is that they run a VERY different affiliate/network distribution model to the other networks.

ABC, NBC and CBS distribute a network feed to the local affiliate, but that local affiliate decodes it, adds local shows at some times, and then re-encodes it. This means that the EEG legaliser could be placed just before the final ATSC encoder such that it processed both network and local caption content, as that encoder path is used all the time.

Fox doesn't do this - and instead distribute a final encode network feed to their affiliates. When the station is showing networked shows there is no local decoding and recoding going on - the streams Fox distribute are simply passed straight through to the viewer - so AIUI the closed captions, just like the audio and video, are totally untouched by the local station's equipment. The station's local encoder and other equipment is only "in circuit" during local programming when the local encoder output (which COULD be passed through a local EEG device) is "spliced" in to the broadcast chain, replacing the network feeds, so any local legaliser would only be legalising locally inserted content.

Fox take this approach to avoid every local station needing HD decoders and HD switching gear for their HD feed, and it also guarantees a level of quality for all network content irrespective of the local station's encoder, removing picture quality losses and audio metadata errors etc., and also reducing the bandwith required for distribution (as you can distribute at a lower bitrate if you don't have a further MPEG2 decode/recode process downstream - as ABC/NBC/CBS do) However it also means that any network errors are passed by all stations...

That's really interesting. How did someone from across the pond figure this out? <grin>

The problem that I myself experience with the DC Fox station (WTTG) is with the captions for the *syndicated programs.* (markbulla, who's the engineer for both the Baltimore Fox and CW stations, *doesn't* have a problem generating intact, synchronized captions for those programs.) What this means is that instead of taping the Saturday afternoon program of "Stargate Atlantis" from WTTG, I often watch the 2 a.m. broadcast of "Stargate Atlantis" from WUVA (which my CECB can't pick up in order fr my TiVO to record it). :-( (My sleep cycle is out of whack!)

Dana

That's really interesting. How did someone from across the pond figure this out? <grin>


Dunno - I like knowing how things work I guess - and have hung out here long enough to pick up some stuff...

Also - knowing the differences between the UK/European standards and the US standards makes life a lot easier when trying to use MS stuff this side of the pond (where Windows 7 has finally caught up to where my first OTA CECB was 9 years ago in supporting DVB Subtitles and Interactive text...)


The problem that I myself experience with the DC Fox station (WTTG) is with the captions for the *syndicated programs.* (markbulla, who's the engineer for both the Baltimore Fox and CW stations, *doesn't* have a problem generating intact, synchronized captions for those programs.) What this means is that instead of taping the Saturday afternoon program of "Stargate Atlantis" from WTTG, I often watch the 2 a.m. broadcast of "Stargate Atlantis" from WUVA (which my CECB can't pick up in order fr my TiVO to record it). :-( (My sleep cycle is out of whack!)

Dana

If my understanding is correct then syndicated programming is replayed by the local station - and thus any Closed Captions will be inserted by them. If there are problems then it is either with the syndicated source or the local station - not the Fox network, as they aren't responsible for syndicated content?

Are stations in the US legally obliged to caption a minimum percentage of content? (Over here the main networks have to hit near 100% these days)

Practically all television stations (broadcast and cable), operating for more than four years, are required to closed caption practically all of their programming.

Practically all television stations (broadcast and cable), operating for more than four years, are required to closed caption practically all of their programming.

What is the definition of practically - out of interest?

In the UK it is a weighted percentage based on national audience share - meaning most terrestrial (analogue-originally) networks have to hit between 95 and 100% whilst some of the less watched channels - like the shopping channels and music channel have lower percentages to hit.

The interesting issue is with British Sign Language (which currently has to be open, not closed, apart from stations that can simulcast an interactive video stream containing it - Sky News is a notable proponent of this) - as there are similar rules for sign-language in the UK - though the targets aren't as high. All channels - including the music video channels - have to abide by these quotas - meaning you get BSL interpretation of music videos (though these are often confined to the early hours of the morning).

The BBC broadcast an overnight block of content called The Sign Zone - after midnight most nights - which contains in-vision sign-language versions of a lot of BBC current affairs, factual and some drama programmes. (It is designed for VCR/PVR time-shifting)

There are also quotas for AD (Audio Description) for visually impaired viewers.

What is the definition of practically - out of interest?http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/dro/exemptions_from_cc_rules.html

I have exactly the same problem with FOX in Milwaukee. I have an RCA DTV L26WD26and OTA reception. Local FOX station engineer says FOX goes directly to air through a "splicer" and that local station has no control over the problem. How do we contact FOX engineering?

I have looked at the FOX network web site and can't find any reference to network engineering. Does someone have a web address for FOX network engineering???