I currently have a DVI to HDMI cable running from the Adelphia SA 3240HD set top box to my Toshiba HD TV.

Can anyone help me out here?And this has WHAT to do with attaching an external drive to the 8300HD???

In fact, what does it have to do with the 8300?

There are lots of discussion of HD cable STB HDCP issues in other forums.

Originially SATA was designed as an internal interface ONLY. My understanding is that the type I external connector (L shaped) was an unratified standard, that was produced as a stop-gap solution by enclosure manufacturers untill an external standard was determined....

Jesse.

Actually, I think the way it played out was, as you say, an internal only solution. Those of us doing things like external storage via FW wanted something faster... so the early days of external SATA had folks routing cables meant for internal connection to external controllers (the L connector was the ONLY standard, just not meant for external use). I suspect it was then it was realized this was a market that was bound to grow quite rapidly, so the need for a spec for an external connector, and thus eSATA was born.

The really interesting this (to me) is that this never happened with IDE/ATA. But that was then, eSATA is here and now and I expect this "market" to be significant. FWIW, I've done careful HD benchmarks... my external arrays are faster than my internal array!

FWIW, I've done careful HD benchmarks... my external arrays are faster than my internal array!
To what do you attribute that?

Good question... the PCI card was very cheap (4 external eSATA ports for 70 bucks). Contrary to the more expensive cards, it did not claim to take advantage of a PCI-X interface (a better version of PCI that seems to have gained zero traction and may be moot with more PCIe interfaces being built). ALL the disks involved are identical Maxtors, so the "comparison" is as "apples to apples" as you can get.

I'd speculate the controllers themselves shouldn't be making any difference, so my guess is it's how the motherboard is handling it (don't know the exact route, but we're talking about one going through the PCI bus, the other having a motherboard connection). Theoretically, a "motherboard" connection has the promise of being "better" so I'm left with I put it that they were very conservative in mapping out the mobo. It's not at all unusual for Apple to run their hardware slower than it's capable of (their built in DVD burners are generally "firmwared" to write slower than the drive spec, so the first thing I do is flash them with the OEM firmware which brings them up to the hardware's spec).

Anyway, this "faster" is a benchmark thing... as in the number "prove" it. Practically, I seriously doubt anyone could ever tell that one is faster than another. More and more I see this sentiment holding true in the HD area... the "difference you can see" is frequently way smaller (if at all) than what some numbers might suggest.

Good question... the PCI card was very cheap (4 external eSATA ports for 70 bucks). Contrary to the more expensive cards, it did not claim to take advantage of a PCI-X interface (a better version of PCI that seems to have gained zero traction and may be moot with more PCIe interfaces being built). ALL the disks involved are identical Maxtors, so the "comparison" is as "apples to apples" as you can get.

I'd speculate the controllers themselves shouldn't be making any difference, so my guess is it's how the motherboard is handling it (don't know the exact route, but we're talking about one going through the PCI bus, the other having a motherboard connection). Theoretically, a "motherboard" connection has the promise of being "better"
That's always been my thinking as well. And with lower CPU utilization as well unless the I/O card has onboard smarts, but you mentioned it was cheap.

Hi all,

Just upgraded my external storage drive to the Seagate SATA2 750gb hard drive. Works great. Bought it and a new external case (AZIO eSATA case) from Newegg. The case comes with the eSATA cable so this is all you need.

I was on the phone with Brighthouse and mentioned about an external hard drive. The guy did not have a clue (surprise). Anyway, he did a search and found a Brighthouse internal document that was a Users' Guide titled "SA 8300 External Hard Drive User Guide". I convinced him to send it to me. It is a 21 page guide to setting up an external hard drive, operating, etc. So the cable company does not support an external hard drive, but they have a user guide? I guess not really surprising. The guide did not give any information that is not on this thread, but if anyone would like a copy, send me a PM and I will forward.

What's the minimum software version that will support an external SATA?

Thanks

Sergio

I was on the phone with Brighthouse and mentioned about an external hard drive. The guy did not have a clue (surprise). Anyway, he did a search and found a Brighthouse internal document that was a Users' Guide titled "SA 8300 External Hard Drive User Guide". I convinced him to send it to me. It is a 21 page guide to setting up an external hard drive, operating, etc. So the cable company does not support an external hard drive, but they have a user guide? I guess not really surprising. The guide did not give any information that is not on this thread, but if anyone would like a copy, send me a PM and I will forward.

Its probably a SARA Manual

Wow, a 750G one.

I have this theory... the more space you have, the more "stuff" you acquire that you will never see or use. I have a fairly big place with a good amount of storage (for a city apartment). Somewhere way back in my clothes closet I bet you I have dashiki's and neru shirts.

I'm really kinda cramped now with the 160 in the 8300, it starts mentioning deleting stuff a few times in 2 months. BUT, it does kinda force me to actually watch and delete what I've recorded. With 300% more capacity, I'm afraid I'd pile up too much that I'd never be watching.

OTOH, I did use to pile on as many as 6 movies in a week when TCM runs those "Hitchcock" weeks.

Just upgraded my external storage drive to the Seagate SATA2 750gb hard drive. Works great. Bought it and a new external case (AZIO eSATA case) from Newegg. The case comes with the eSATA cable so this is all you need.

I think your the first with putting a 750GB drive on. Good info that it works.

I think your the first with putting a 750GB drive on. Good info that it works.
But will it continue to work when he gets to 60-70% full? That is the burning question.

What's the minimum software version that will support an external SATA?

Thanks

SergioI don't know what the minimum software version that will support an external SATA is.

This post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6007138&&#post6007138) describes adding an external SATA drive on a SARA 1.85.19.1 software version.

If you are using Passport, you need the latest version and even then you may have problems with fast forward and rewind.

I believe that it works with all current versions of SARA in the field. I was at 1.83.xxx.xxx when I first tried it.

RE: Passport - the current problem is that if you are viewing a current ("live") program that the "trick play" (pause live TV, or rewind and replay) functions will not work if the buffer being used is the external drive.

Hi all,

Just upgraded my external storage drive to the Seagate SATA2 750gb hard drive. Works great. Bought it and a new external case (AZIO eSATA case) from Newegg. The case comes with the eSATA cable so this is all you need.

Thanks for the info Dennis! I'm ordering the same from Newegg too. I like my SA8300HD, but my movies keep scrolling off before I can watch them. This will soon be less of an issue :)

RE: Passport - the current problem is that if you are viewing a current ("live") program that the "trick play" (pause live TV, or rewind and replay) functions will not work if the buffer being used is the external drive.

Ah, do we know empirically the problem is caused by the buffer being written to the external HD?

As for passport, I think the 1.8.112 is the most common release; from what I've read, the 2.5.x series was "next in line" and the beginning of external HD support. I think we've gone through a few revs of 2.5.x and the current latest one is .066. I'm kinda lucky not to be in a test area, so theoretically when I get a 2.5.x series upgrade, any issues with "trick play" is solved (and how the hell did it get that name; dvr's from the get-go were designed to be constantly recording so one COULD perform these functions!).

Ah, do we know empirically the problem is caused by the buffer being written to the external HD?

As for passport, I think the 1.8.112 is the most common release; from what I've read, the 2.5.x series was "next in line" and the beginning of external HD support. I think we've gone through a few revs of 2.5.x and the current latest one is .066. I'm kinda lucky not to be in a test area, so theoretically when I get a 2.5.x series upgrade, any issues with "trick play" is solved (and how the hell did it get that name; dvr's from the get-go were designed to be constantly recording so one COULD perform these functions!).
I don't think anyone has reported having a Passport version with an external SATA drive *and* functional trick play.

Hi all,

Just upgraded my external storage drive to the Seagate SATA2 750gb hard drive. Works great. Bought it and a new external case (AZIO eSATA case) from Newegg. The case comes with the eSATA cable so this is all you need.

I am new to the forum but am looking to attach an external SATA drive (esata II). It sounds like you have found a working setup. Where did you get the drive/box/cable? Should they be available at Frys, Best Buy, etc. or am I better off buying online. Cox Cable and Scientific Atlanta have been no help even though the SA manual references attcahing an external drive. Both entities disavow any knowledge of being able to help.

I would appreciate any insight you might have.

Thanks,
Dennis Wilkins

You'd be well served by reading through this thread.

Sheesh, he said right in the part you quoted that he bought the stuff from newegg, as in newegg.com. :)

I am new to the forum but am looking to attach an external SATA drive (esata II). It sounds like you have found a working setup. Where did you get the drive/box/cable? Should they be available at Frys, Best Buy, etc. or am I better off buying online. Cox Cable and Scientific Atlanta have been no help even though the SA manual references attcahing an external drive. Both entities disavow any knowledge of being able to help.

I would appreciate any insight you might have.

Thanks,
Dennis Wilkins
It's a tough crowd here, dhwilkins. Try using searching the thread. The info you seek has been covered . . and covered . . and covered. Honestly, it's annoying when people pop in and ask questions that were answered recently. When the question was answered in the very quote you replied to, it is especially irksome.

Hi all,

Just upgraded my external storage drive to the Seagate SATA2 750gb hard drive. Works great. Bought it and a new external case (AZIO eSATA case) from Newegg. The case comes with the eSATA cable so this is all you need.

Hi Dennis,
AZIO eSATA case has no fan. Does not it get too hot for 24/7 use?
Thank you.
Min.

Hi Dennis,
AZIO eSATA case has no fan. Does not it get too hot for 24/7 use?
Thank you.
Min.
This has been discussed - argued - here extensively. My opinion is that no passively cooled enclosure is suitable for 24/7/365 use.

I don't know; the Vantec Nexstar 3 enclosure I purchased seems at worst warm to the touch. And when the DVR is off (not recording or playing back) it runs even cooler. Here is a link for the product:

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1785959&CatId=0

Also, at this same location I found a Maxtor 300GB drive that appears to be a CE drive (based on the model number). Here is a link for the product:

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1487964&CatId=139

Here is the link to the Maxtor website identifying this unit as a CE drive:

http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor/en_us/documentation/data_sheets/quickview_data_sheet.pdf


Anyway, I just thought I would share this information as I have found this combination to be glitch free so far in addition to being very quiet; though I should qualify my comments by noting it has only been about a week.

Can use an external drive with the version 1.87 or I need the 1.88?

Thanks

Sergio

Come on folks, please read. :) In post #2265 on July 28, only a few posts back, Dave Hancock said he used it as far back as 1.83.x.x. Passport is the only software that is still problematic with SATA.

Sorry...

:) :) :) I just couldn't pass that up.

Dave,

You beat me to it. You'd think someone with better than a thousand posts would know better :rolleyes: (but then, how does one get that many posts - by being helpful, as you are, or asking obvious questions).

Well, I've missed a post or two in my time too. I just found it particularly amusing since the latest topic was reading stuff. :)

I don't know; the Vantec Nexstar 3 enclosure I purchased seems at worst warm to the touch. And when the DVR is off (not recording or playing back) it runs even cooler.

If you mean pull the plug from the wall off, then yes. If off by the "power" switch, not at all. The 8300 is ALWAYS recording to the buffer, even when it's off. Turn it on and you can actually watch the previous hours worth on the channel that it was tuned to when you shut it off. I've done this a few times.

I bring it up because I see posts alluding to the fact that the buffer may be being written to the external HD.

That being said, there are differences in operating temp for different drives; some run cooler than others. However, when I finally get SATA support, I will be looking at overall cooling. As long as I'm messing there, I'll probably consider the DVR as well as the overall I have a bit of an unusual situation in that 3-4 feet behind the whole setup is a radiator, no I can't re-arrange anything! So I'll probably put some fans sucking air in from the front and expelling it towards the rear/radiator.

Does anyone know if there is a way to determine if my external sata port is active or not? My cable company said they didn't "think" it was, but I'm not sure they know for sure (Everest Cable in Kansas City). I've paged through the diagnostic information but can't find anything useful. Any ideas on how I might confirm this prior to purchasing a drive, enclosure, etc?

If you mean pull the plug from the wall off, then yes. If off by the "power" switch, not at all. The 8300 is ALWAYS recording to the buffer, even when it's off. Turn it on and you can actually watch the previous hours worth on the channel that it was tuned to when you shut it off. I've done this a few times.

Gee, I wish my Cox 8300HD worked like this, but it does not. When I turn mine on, initially there is no buffer, and I can't even pause live TV. This is completely consistent since day 1, and since everything else with the DVR works correctly (or so it seems), it doesn't seem like it's broken or anything. I can only get these buffer-related features to work after changing the channel.

I wonder if it's because my DVR is connected to my TV via an HDMI cable...? Or maybe I've chosen a setting somewhere along the way that messed it up.

Dennis

Dennis,

What do you have your Viewer: Power On set to? Last Channel? Or a specific channel? I could be wrong, but I think if you set it to Last Channel, it will work as described. If you have it set to a specific channel like I do, the buffer is reset as soon as you power on because the channel was changed. I can't test this right now because I have 2 recordings in progress.

EDIT: Well, I tested that and it didn't do anything for me, no buffer, 1.88.19.1.

I recently added an external HD to my SA 8300HD. Now quite frequently I'm experiencing pixellation, dropouts & stuttering of programs. If I rewind a bit and watch the same section over again it may or may not behave properly so I'm assuming the problem is related to transferring data to and from the external HD. It's especially poor if I'm recording 2 HD programs and playing back a 3rd at the same time. On occasion it also seems to stop recording programs mid-stream.

My 8300 is SARA 1.88.15.3.


My external HD is a Seagate ST3300822AS 300GB 7200RPM SATAII 8MB HDD in a Manpower 3.5 MAP-H31SS-01 RT enclosure.

An easy test would be to disconnect the external drive and leave it off for several days, to see if the problem still occurs...

Hi All,
I just got my Cox SA 8300HD a couple days ago. However, I can't seem to get a SATA external drive to work properly. I can't get past the screen that says I have a device that is not working properly. I'm using a WD 300gig SATA drive in a Venus enclosure. Has anybody in the San Diego North County Cox Cable area been able to set this connection with an external SATA drive? Any suggestions and/or advice would be appreciated.

Many Thanks,
David

Hi All,
I just got my Cox SA 8300HD a couple days ago. However, I can't seem to get a SATA external drive to work properly. I can't get past the screen that says I have a device that is not working properly. I'm using a WD 300gig SATA drive in a Venus enclosure. Has anybody in the San Diego North County Cox Cable area been able to set this connection with an external SATA drive? Any suggestions and/or advice would be appreciated.

Many Thanks,
David
Did you hot plug it? Have both the 8300HD and the external drive on and *then* attach the drive?

Bondsman

I've been running a 300GB Seagate drive in an Addonics enclosure since about this time last year, running Cox in Ramona (South lineup). I think Pepar's got it right. Make sure the drive/enclsure is powered up, then unplug the 8300, connect the SATA cable and replug the 8300. In fact I just had to do this last week when the stroms were running thru our area as we lost power a few times.

Dennis,

What do you have your Viewer: Power On set to? Last Channel? Or a specific channel? I could be wrong, but I think if you set it to Last Channel, it will work as described. If you have it set to a specific channel like I do, the buffer is reset as soon as you power on because the channel was changed. I can't test this right now because I have 2 recordings in progress.

EDIT: Well, I tested that and it didn't do anything for me, no buffer, 1.88.19.1.
I have it set to power on to the last channel. I just did a test where I turn the DVR power off for just a few seconds and then turn it back on, but this time I left the TV (which again is connected by HDMI) turned on. When I turned the DVR back on, the buffer was gone.

However, I was able to Pause live TV this time and Rewind to the beginning of where I powered on the DVR. Usually, when I turn on the DVR, I use a Harmony remote to turn on the TV, the DVR, and the A/V receiver one-by-one. Whenever I do this, the buffer is gone, and I also can't Pause or Rewind. I have to change the channel to get the buffer-related functionality to begin working.

Maybe it's just me. :) But thanks for your suggestions.

Thanks,
Dennis

Is this a drive that might work?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140

I see several posts with Seagate 300gb drives that work. Was going to try this with the Vantec box.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=370891&prodlist=yahoo

Seems like $145 for 320gb is a great deal.

Not really... For the last 3 wks fry's I have gotten 500 gig drives for $178,189,179.. no rebates.. WD, Seagate, maxtor this wk.. all are up and running fine
"TEACH"

One of members of our local (Rochester NY) HD forum (RochesterHDTV) reports on buying a complete 8300 external drive set-up from Western Digital (he says that SA recommended that). This is the first that I've seen of this drive:

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=229

He says that it works fine.

I put 3 together last month with the wd500ks from fry's at 179.... box from newegg $33 with awesome quite fan...

Bondsman

I've been running a 300GB Seagate drive in an Addonics enclosure since about this time last year, running Cox in Ramona (South lineup). I think Pepar's got it right. Make sure the drive/enclsure is powered up, then unplug the 8300, connect the SATA cable and replug the 8300. In fact I just had to do this last week when the stroms were running thru our area as we lost power a few times.
Actually, both the 8300HD and the external drive should be powered on before connecting the external drive. As for losing power, I had that happen recently. I have two 8300HDs with external drives. The one upstairs, the one w/o a UPS and that I didn't futz with, came back up on its own with all content intact. The bedroom unit has a UPS - both STBs have power conditioning/surge suppression - and when the power went off, I turned off the UPS so that it wouldn't keep beeping. (Couldn't watch TV anyway). After power was restored, I disconnected the SATA cable and powered up both the 8300HD and the external drive before reconnecting the SATA cable. I got the dialog telling me the drive was attached, but checking the recorded programs showed that ALL content on the external drive was GONE. It worked fine and showed up in DIAG as the added capacity, but the content was not listed. I'm pretty sure it did not "reformat."

I do not know if the two different ways the setups came back up - one on its own and one with me intervening - had anything to do with it, nor do I know if I will be able to resist intervening.

Actually, both the 8300HD and the external drive should be powered on before connecting the external drive. As for losing power, I had that happen recently. ... After power was restored, I disconnected the SATA cable and powered up both the 8300HD and the external drive before reconnecting the SATA cable. I got the dialog telling me the drive was attached, but checking the recorded programs showed that ALL content on the external drive was GONE.You're running Passport, aren't you pepar? You might be subject to a different set of external storage behaviors than SARA users.

Over the last several months, my SARA-based 8300HD has gone through numerous (~10-20) reboot cycles (some forced by me, some by the cableco, and some for no reason at all!) with my external drive plugged in and running. I've never had a problem when the STB came back up, which suggests that it's not necessary to power up the STB before plugging in the drive. From what I can tell, the only constraint seems to be that the drive needs to be up to speed before the STB first tries to talk to it.

I've also turned off / unplugged the external drive without turning the 8300HD off first (brainfarts, each time). The STB gave me an error message about the drive disappearing, but it worked just fine when the drive was later reconnected. (I never did that when a recording or playback was in progress, though.)

You're running Passport, aren't you pepar? You might be subject to a different set of external storage behaviors than SARA users.)
Probably. At the most basic level though I believe all 8300HDs work the same. SARA and Passport are GUIs and IPGs that, I believe, sit on top of and hook into the hardware.

I put 3 together last month with the wd500ks from fry's at 179.... box from newegg $33 with awesome quite fan...

And 2 weeks from now you might not be able to touch a 500G drive for under 225 and 4 weeks after that they maybe be back under. HD pricing can be volatile at times. Eventually, in a certain "class" (like 250-320G currently) they DO tend to settle down. I'm usually thinking of them in terms of cost/GB. Aside from fluctuations in 500G drives, the sweet spot is that 250-320G category, they run around .30/GB.

A eSATA box with a fan at 33 bucks would be very interesting, I've not seen more than one single drive box with a fan, and that one was way expensive.

The real bottom line does seem to be that whether it's SARA or Passport, both are far more buggy than what they should be. Maybe it's because I'm very much into computers and know a lot of programmers (plus I've had jobs where they worked for me) but I find a lot of the these obvious software issues completely unacceptable (I would never "allow" a version with a major feature broken to be pushed). It's like these are foisting dev versions on us (BTW, I adhere to the real definitions, software that does NOT have all it's planned features running is NOT "beta" and the only real difference between dev and alpha is more timing than anything else).

I am still waiting for a 500GB box preferrably SATA that has a network jack so I can connect wirelessly to a hub and to the cable box. That would be real tether free.

Paul



And 2 weeks from now you might not be able to touch a 500G drive for under 225 and 4 weeks after that they maybe be back under. HD pricing can be volatile at times. Eventually, in a certain "class" (like 250-320G currently) they DO tend to settle down. I'm usually thinking of them in terms of cost/GB. Aside from fluctuations in 500G drives, the sweet spot is that 250-320G category, they run around .30/GB.

A eSATA box with a fan at 33 bucks would be very interesting, I've not seen more than one single drive box with a fan, and that one was way expensive.

Riverside_Guy,

I guess it depends on what you consider broken. I agree with your basic sentiment and I certainly would not let anything like this out either (though not because of SATA), but for arguments sake, here's the way I see it this particular issue.

SA makes a box that has a SATA connector and can run software packages form mulitple vendors.

SA also sells software (SARA) that uses the SATA port and it seems to be quite reliable I believe.

Now, where the current problems seem to arise is that Pioneer/Aptiv also sells software, but their current SATA implementation is highly suspect. Unfortuantely for SA, many, many users do not separate Passport software from SA and blame SA for the problems.

To carry this further, the box also contains a USB port, 1394 port, and front A/V ports. SARA now supports the 1394 and front A/V ports in version 1.88.x.x, but there is still no USB support. Eventually there may be a use for it, but I don't consider the box broken simply because the USB port is there for future use, do you?

Probably. At the most basic level though I believe all 8300HDs work the same. SARA and Passport are GUIs and IPGs that, I believe, sit on top of and hook into the hardware.Perhaps, but differences between the two platforms in external storage management emerge at a very low level. For instance, I've never heard of a SARA user losing access to "trickplay" features when using an external drive, whereas I've never heard of a Passport user who *hasn't* experienced occasional loss of "trickplay" features.

With fundamental differences in behavior like that, I just think it's worthwhile to make sure it's clear which platform we're talking about when sharing info on new behaviors / problems.

I guess the recordings that went AWOL on your external drive never came back? That's a serious bummer. I had my fingers crossed hoping you'd post again in a couple of hours telling us that they magically reappeared...

Very true.

I'm also surprised the recordings didn't come back. I thought the index was rebuilt during a reboot or something.

Now, where the current problems seem to arise is that Pioneer/Aptiv also sells software, but their current SATA implementation is highly suspect. Unfortuantely for SA, many, many users do not separate Passport software from SA and blame SA for the problems.
Other than the loss of trick play features upon attachment of the external drive, what makes it "highly suspect?"

Very true.

I'm also surprised the recordings didn't come back. I thought the index was rebuilt during a reboot or something.
I have powered down (with on/off button) before, removed the ext drive and powered up without it to find the SATA-stored content not on the list. And then reversed the process to find them present again. I wish I knew. Losing 6-8 episodes of - unwatched - Deadwood was @#$^* tragic.

Ouch, that is tragic. You missed Jane's topless scene. :)
I guess "highly suspect" was a poor choice of wording, but I was mostly referring to previous versions not supporting SATA vice SARA which has supported it all along, with regard to the comment that the "8300" was not ready. Folks tend to lump all aspects of the 8300 together and don't consider that 2 parts of one company and a totally separate company are involved. Of course, to the end-user, it doesn't really matter. :)

Ouch, that is tragic. You missed Jane's topless scene. :)
Hmmm, I must admit that since they cleaned her up last season my "interest" in her has been piqued. :D

My first shot at seeing all the episodes in order is to wait until they re-run the season. If not that, there'll be a DVD. I find the plot(s) hard to follow, and while I have a very good command of the English language, I have trouble following the dialog as well. Even the village idiot perplexes me with his verbosity.

just want to make sure I'm not confused after trying to read a bunch of this thread! I'm getting ready to upgrade with an external drive. If I understand correctly, here is what I need to find:

- a SATA drive (probably between 300-400 gig)
- a SATA drive enclosure with eSATA connection
- an eSATA to eSATA cable

I understand that many people prefer various brands, etc. But in general, is that the setup I need to find? I've seen some of the "pre-assembled" add-ons, but they seem to be more expensive. So, it seems "do it yourself" is the way to go.

Thanks.

So, it seems "do it yourself" is the way to go.
That's my feeling. Maxtor Quickview drives are popular; they have big buffers and are said to be tweaked for streaming video. My opinion is to use a case with active cooling - a fan. Others disagree on that, but it runs 24/7/365 and it holds data we'd all prefer to not lose. Draw your own conclusions.

You can use an enclosure whose external connector is "L" SATA. Just be sure to get the correct connecting cable. I believe most newer design enclosures have moved to eSATA.

thanks!

"Jane" is a Deadwood character, right? Well, there IS OnDemand for lost episodes... but I understand you lose HD. One of the issues I'm seeing having more of an impact is the repeat ai rings of various premium channel content happens on the sub channels, meaning SD. Absolutely part of the "we need more HD channels" thing!

Dave you're completely correct, I do understand the hardware/software issue. Perhaps a better focused opinion would be that TWC should not be pushing software revs that aren't full qualified. While it's is interesting to note what is or isn't broken in various revs and base software, we are paying customers and expect to be upset if someone theoretically paying the same thing gets something very functional while we get partial functionality in limited areas. Yeah, I know, slightly pollyana-ish! Still, holding TWC's feet to the fire IS a noble calling!

Then again, this is totally in keeping with what I think is a dangerous trend... making the public, most of who are clueless about it, into unwitting alpha/beta testers. I'm a huge fan of OS X, yet I've gotten into knock down, drag out "fights" because they freaking made people PAY for an alpha copy, then pay again for the 1.0 (in actuality beta) release when it was the next release that was the first one I would have released. Didn't I read about Redmond now charging for their alpha release?

"Broken hardware" isn't as simple as some would think. One does have to consider the software side as well. If the software supports the function, but it doesn't work, I'd look at the hardware. So I think I'd always be careful about calling hardware "broken" until there is empirical evidence that it's NOT a software issue. If a USB port was correctly wired into the right bus on the mobo and was tested to be compliant, then subsequent issues relate to the software.

An easy test would be to disconnect the external drive and leave it off for several days, to see if the problem still occurs...

Yes I did that. When disconnected it works fine (of course I can't view the recordings stored on the external drive).

My first thought was to change cases so I ordered a Vantec Nexstar 3 which offers and eSATA interface as opposed to the SATA interface from the MAPOWER cases I'm using now. My thought was perhaps the data transfer rate would be improved using a native eSATA interface.

When I moved the drive and connected the Nexstar 3 to the DVR however, it sees the drive but says it does not work with this drive. I'm wondering if I need to reformat the drive through the DVR now that it's in a new case but I cannot find any details on how to do this.

Yes I did that. When disconnected it works fine (of course I can't view the recordings stored on the external drive).

My first thought was to change cases so I ordered a Vantec Nexstar 3 which offers and eSATA interface as opposed to the SATA interface from the MAPOWER cases I'm using now. My thought was perhaps the data transfer rate would be improved using a native eSATA interface.

When I moved the drive and connected the Nexstar 3 to the DVR however, it sees the drive but says it does not work with this drive. I'm wondering if I need to reformat the drive through the DVR now that it's in a new case but I cannot find any details on how to do this.
Is this the same drive that had been attached to that 8300HD?

Is this the same drive that had been attached to that 8300HD?

Yes...same drive.

Besides the stuttering and artifacts, the DVR seems to stop recording sometimes in the middle of a program. I can only guess that the drive can't keep up with the data stream so the DVR has no choice but to stop recording.

I did some reading tonight and saw a few people hot plugging in their drives so I'm wondering if I should put the drive back into the Vantec case then plugging it in hot.

Yes...same drive.

Besides the stuttering and artifacts, the DVR seems to stop recording sometimes in the middle of a program. I can only guess that the drive can't keep up with the data stream so the DVR has no choice but to stop recording.

I did some reading tonight and saw a few people hot plugging in their drives so I'm wondering if I should put the drive back into the Vantec case then plugging it in hot.
Barring some connector/internal cabling issue, I don't think it can be the enclosure.

This wouldn't be one of those "ATA drives in a case with a SATA external output" would it?

This wouldn't be one of those "ATA drives in a case with a SATA external output" would it?
If there's electronics in the data path, then my previous statement is . . inoperative. Or at least incomplete.

OK, made my purchase today at Micro Center. Haven't played with it yet, but for now went with the NexStar 3 with usb 2.0 and eSATA. For the hard drive I went with a Maxtor 300GB 16MB cache 7200 RPM. Looking forward to getting it hooked up.

Side question: if/when I switch out to a Tivo series 3, can I reformat this drive and use this setup with that?

wow...how can I determine if my case is "too hot"? I've read posts talking about it, and some recommend an enclosure with fan. But I didn't find one locally. My system is in an enclosed space with little ventilation. I have not had any problems with any of my components, but my case feels quite hot to the touch (the NexStar case). I plan to add a fan to the back of my entertainment system to add some ventilation, but haven't had a chance to do that.

How can I benchmark to see if the case being this hot is "normal" or "too hot"?

wow...how can I determine if my case is "too hot"? I've read posts talking about it, and some recommend an enclosure with fan. But I didn't find one locally. My system is in an enclosed space with little ventilation. I have not had any problems with any of my components, but my case feels quite hot to the touch (the NexStar case). I plan to add a fan to the back of my entertainment system to add some ventilation, but haven't had a chance to do that.

How can I benchmark to see if the case being this hot is "normal" or "too hot"?
Lay a small thermometer on top of your external drive's case. (The drive inside will be hotter.) Check the drive's specs at the manufacturer's website. It should list an operating temperature range. If you're above that range, install a fan immediately. If you're within that range, but at the top of it, I would say that's "too hot" as well. Heat shortens the life of a component; the cooler things are , the longer they will live.

thanks! I'll give that a shot tonight. Appreciate the help.

Holy mother of god, it took me 3 hours to read this whole thread. The amount of useful information could have been summarized in about two paragraphs.

So can you sum it up?

ROTFLMAO!!!! That is the $64,000 question, isn't it????

actually, right now it doesn't feel as hot as it did last night, so I'll measure again later. Right now, it appears to be around 100 degrees (holding a thermometer against the outside of the case inbetween the case and my hand). I have found sites showing operating temp to 131 degrees (some show up to 140 degrees), so I would assume I'm ok for now. Hopefully once I install the fan behind my components it will help as well. Thanks.

I have found sites showing operating temp to 131 degrees (some show up to 140 degrees), so I would assume I'm ok for now. Hopefully once I install the fan behind my components it will help as well. Thanks.
I would hurry that project along.

this morning, everything was acting up. The drive was about the same temp as last night, and was not turned off or disconnected. When we powered on the cable box this morning, I tried to watch some recordings from the external drive. It didn't work. They showed up in the list, but when selecting play, it would show me a screen that tells me to use the list or change channels (or something like that...essentially, it didn't find anything to play). Eventually, a message popped up that said the external drive wasn't working properly. It said to reconnect it and then press A to reboot. Nothing to reconnect as all was fine there, so I rebooted. Once it came back, everything was fine.

Any ideas? Is this a common behavior? I hope I don't have to do this daily, as this will cause problems if it happens and I'm not home.

And yes, Pepar...I plan to work on that project soon. I hope to find a fan online today and have it delivered ASAP. I think I only need one fan to suck air out, as there are openings on the top and bottom of the rear panel for cable runs, etc.

this morning, everything was acting up. The drive was about the same temp as last night, and was not turned off or disconnected. When we powered on the cable box this morning, I tried to watch some recordings from the external drive. It didn't work. They showed up in the list, but when selecting play, it would show me a screen that tells me to use the list or change channels (or something like that...essentially, it didn't find anything to play). Eventually, a message popped up that said the external drive wasn't working properly. It said to reconnect it and then press A to reboot. Nothing to reconnect as all was fine there, so I rebooted. Once it came back, everything was fine.

Any ideas? Is this a common behavior? I hope I don't have to do this daily, as this will cause problems if it happens and I'm not home.
No, it's not common. Did the message say that the external drive "wasn't working properly," or "not connected properly?" Have you tried a different cable? It really sounds like a connectivity issue.

When we powered on the cable box this morning, I tried to watch some recordings from the external drive. It didn't work. They showed up in the list, but when selecting play, it would show me a screen that tells me to use the list or change channels (or something like that...essentially, it didn't find anything to play). Eventually, a message popped up that said the external drive wasn't working properly. It said to reconnect it and then press A to reboot. Nothing to reconnect as all was fine there, so I rebooted. Once it came back, everything was fine.This is not necessarily related to the heat issue. My drive is well-ventilated, and once every six to eight weeks (3 or 4 times in the seven months I've been running with it), I've had exactly the symptoms you describe.

Pulling the power cord from the STB to reboot the box (without touching the connected and running external drive) has always cleared the problem.

To put that in perspective, I've probably had the STB itself lock up on me for no reason and require a reboot about the same number of times in those seven months.

I just chalk it up to "one of those things"...

I believe it said something along the lines of the external recording device is not functioning properly.

jruhnke - thanks. I'll hope this was "one of those things"! The biggest downside was my wife not being impressed with the new setup I claimed we "needed'! Plus the fear of it happening when I'm not home and hoping she can make her way through it.

Thanks for the replies.

I hate to ask the question, but I've just spent 2 hours looking thru this thread and never found the answer to one of my questions. I'm in houston (so I have SARA) and am going to swap out my HD8000 for the HD8300 this Friday and want to add an external drive.

As long as the drive I purchase is a SATA drive (7200 RPM), I get an encloser which is cooled and has an eSATA outlet and I get the right cable, will it work, OR do I need to focus on the drives in here that most are getting and are assumed to work. Another way to state this is do I need to get the Seagate external drive or the quickview. I don't think I need to but want to make sure.

If I can, I'm just going to watch the adds at Fry's for one of the deals to pop up again (right now they have this drive on sale and I'm trying to figure out why it won't work):

Maxtor 200GB L01M200 8MB Buffer Serial ATA (SATA) - Retail Hard Drive Kit.
Serial ATA Hard Drives:
Capacity: 200GB
Seek Time: <9.3ms
7200RPM
8MB Buffer
Serial ATA (SATA) Interface
Up to 150MB/sec data transfer rate

Thanks for the advice and sorry I couldn't piece the answer to this together in the previous 2300 posts. Also, is there a minimum spec on the buffer size.

Aaron

the message is back. This time, it arrived while watching a recorded show. So, something is definitely wrong here. If it continues, I'll either try a different hard drive, or a different enclosure, or both. This is frustrating.

"The external recording device is not functioning properly. Check and see that the power and data cables are plugged in correctly."

the message is back. This time, it arrived while watching a recorded show. So, something is definitely wrong here. If it continues, I'll either try a different hard drive, or a different enclosure, or both. This is frustrating.

"The external recording device is not functioning properly. Check and see that the power and data cables are plugged in correctly."My apologies; you mentioned in your first note that you'd gotten an error message, and I disregarded that.

In my case, I've never gotten such a message. My only symptom when I've had problems is that I'll try to play a recording, and it'll just go back to the "idle" screen on the playback channel.

Your symptoms are definitely different than mine.

You are losing electrical connectivity through the eSATA line somewhere. Somehow, the operating voltage down the line is at the minimum and eventually it falls below that threshold and fails. Rebooting the STB with the power on only spikes the voltage during turn on to re-establish a connection and is a temp workaround, and not a fix. You must go through all the connection points and reseat them, especially in the enclosure. Also make sure that the eSATA cable coming out of the STB is straight and doesn't tend to be pulled up or down putting stress on the internal connectors and possibly breaking the contact points.

BTW - The correct sequence for connecting an external drive is the following:
Have both devices powered off with no AC power applied
Connect the eSATA cable between the two devices
Power up the External eSATA enclosure and wait a few moments for it to spin up
Plug in the STB and wait about three minutes for it to initialize and boot up before turning on power
Push the power button on the STB and watch the onscreen messages.
For a new drive, it will ask about formatting
For an existing drive, it will say to press "A" to use this drive
For any other messages, follow the instructions

vegggas

upon reconnecting/rebooting, still told me I had an external device not functioning properly. I powered everything down, and unplugged the cable box. I took the drive out of the case, then reinstalled it. Put the case back in the entertainment center, connected it to the cable box, powered it up, and then powered/rebooted the cable box. It is currently working fine. Hope it stays that way now!

Thanks for the replies! I failed to see them before my last post.

Veggas - I will go straighten my cable. It is partially curled still as I did not need the full length. But I will straighten it out completely. I have also printed your 8 step procedure and will be sure to follow that each time I need to do this.

Thanks!

The stiffness of the eSATA cable tends to put twisting or torque pressure on the cable at the connector, which could lead to connection failures.
I've installed probably about 20 of the Maxtor QuickView Expander kits (SA approved kit - the only ones I use!) from buy dot com and have only had one minor issue with the eSATA cable connection in a small rack. They insisted on having the enclosure side ways right next to the STB and coiling up the wire with wire ties, but it kept losing the conection. We moved it to the bottom of the rack (STB near top) and kept the drive flat and the cable coming out with no torque on the connector and attached the cable at the back of the rack (6 inches of slack) and did the same at the STB end, keeping the drive and STB in the same line.
It's been working fine ever since (about 7-8 months).

vegggas

I was wondring if anyone has noticed their 8300HD losing the connection to the external HD. I've noticed lately that for no reason that I can discover that the PVR fails to see the external HD. No power failures or anything like that occured to cause the loss of connection. I simply reboot the machine and it detects the HD. Just figured I'd ask.

I was wondring if anyone has noticed their 8300HD losing the connection to the external HD. I've noticed lately that for no reason that I can discover that the PVR fails to see the external HD. No power failures or anything like that occured to cause the loss of connection. I simply reboot the machine and it detects the HD. Just figured I'd ask.
Try reading. Try reading post #2331. A whole four posts above yours. :rolleyes:

Did you even bother to read the post previous to yours?

vegggas

upon reconnecting/rebooting, still told me I had an external device not functioning properly. I powered everything down, and unplugged the cable box. I took the drive out of the case, then reinstalled it. Put the case back in the entertainment center, connected it to the cable box, powered it up, and then powered/rebooted the cable box. It is currently working fine. Hope it stays that way now!
This is a surefire sign that vegggas was right; in the course of removing and reinstalling the drive in the enclosure, you re-seated the connections.

As long as the drive I purchase is a SATA drive (7200 RPM), I get an encloser which is cooled and has an eSATA outlet and I get the right cable, will it work...
If you've learned anything from reading this thread, it should be that there are absolutely no guarantees.

If one were to take the time to dissect every message in this thread and put together a chart of working combinations, I would bet there would be no obvious pattern.

The type of drive or enclosure does not seem to matter much. It most likely comes down to something inside the 8300HD itself. Some are simply more stubborn when it comes to supporting an external drive, be it due to firmware or some other yet undiscovered reason.

Any SATA 7200RPM drive should theoretically work. Some have had success getting the same brand drive as is inside the box (WD or Maxtor). Some have said to keep the size under 300GB, while others have had no problems with 500GB.

Bottom line: buy it, plug it in, cross your fingers ;)

Did you even bother to read the post previous to yours?

vegggas


Sorry guys. Completely my fault. Must have brain farted, and didn't see the simularity to what I was asking. I'll check the cables tonight and reseat them, and see if that improves it. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with everyone.

Brian

It's funny, but this "loss of connection" can, at times, prove to be far worse when you pay more money for the cable! First, I find the eSATA connection to be very flawed in that I would have expected some mechanism to help keeping all lines engaged. I know there are folks that hated them, but I actually liked those old SCSI connectors that had wire bails that totally and completely made the male/female connection into one item that almost could not be broken.

The very first HDMI cable I used was for someone else; they had gotten a 100 buck cable. Huge and fat. Both on the TV and the STB, the connector gave zero, I mean zero indication that it was completely connected. Look at it wrong and I'd expect it would come out. God awful. When I got my set, I got a 25 buck HDMI cable... sure it seemed "lite duty" but I noticed a barely perceptible click as I inserted the connector.

Failure - Seagate + Vantec

Got these from newegg:
320 gb Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS
N82E16822148140

VANTEC NST-360SU-BK
N82E16817145167

Powered everything thing up and connected with cable supplied with enclosure.
After a couple of seconds, I got error:
"The external recording device is not functioning properly. Check to make sure the power and data cables are plugged in properly."

Powered everything down and put jumper back on for 150 mode.
After power up and re-connect, I got same error.

Read up, there's a whole bunch of voodoo to get this rolling. I've seen a number of posts that say to hot plug the drive (i.e. plug the data cable after both units are powered up).

Read up, there's a whole bunch of voodoo to get this rolling. I've seen a number of posts that say to hot plug the drive (i.e. plug the data cable after both units are powered up).
Nobody reads. :(

Read up, there's a whole bunch of voodoo to get this rolling. I've seen a number of posts that say to hot plug the drive (i.e. plug the data cable after both units are powered up).Nobody reads. :(True...including us, sometimes. His note says he did that...twice:
Powered everything thing up and connected with cable supplied with enclosure.... After power up and re-connect, I got same error.Sugargenius, you might try reformatting the drive in your PC, and then trying to reconnect it to your 8300HD. If nothing else, you'll at least confirm that the drive itself isn't dead.

True...including us, sometimes. His note says he did that...twice:
Sugargenius, you might try reformatting the drive in your PC, and then trying to reconnect it to your 8300HD. If nothing else, you'll at least confirm that the drive itself isn't dead.
I might've read it wrong, but I got the impression that he did them both, but not (necessarily) in the order required, or the order in his sentence. A clarification would be helpful.

Thought folks knew what "hot plug" means... both devices powered up with no data connection, then make data connection.

I also thought there is some kind of different format to these drives, not ISO 9660, nor ntfs nor HFS+, nor UDF. Not a bad suggestion, it would mean the 8300 would be forced to do a reformat.

upon reconnecting/rebooting, still told me I had an external device not functioning properly. I powered everything down, and unplugged the cable box. I took the drive out of the case, then reinstalled it. Put the case back in the entertainment center, connected it to the cable box, powered it up, and then powered/rebooted the cable box. It is currently working fine. Hope it stays that way now!
Must be something in the way the earth is rotating on its axis! I have never seen so many posts about the same problem occurring all at the same time! :) I have been having this problem for about a week. Fortunately, I am a reader, and I have found that Veggas is amazingly accurate in his assessment of the cause and the cure for each and every problem that I have had, so I was delighted to come across his solution. Once again, he has come to the rescue. The explanation and instructions he has given us for this problem are both logical and simple to follow--and they are correct!

Many thanks, Veggas! You save us from ourselves. :)

Scarlett

Must be something in the way the earth is rotating on its axis! I have never seen so many posts about the same problem occurring all at the same time! :) I have been having this problem for about a week. Fortunately, I am a reader, and I have found that Veggas is amazingly accurate in his assessment of the cause and the cure for each and every problem that I have had, so I was delighted to come across his solution. Once again, he has come to the rescue. The explanation and instructions he has given us for this problem are both logical and simple to follow--and they are correct!

Many thanks, Veggas! You save us from ourselves. :)

Scarlett
:D :D :D
:rolleyes: Now, if only my wife would think that way, my life would be so much easier :rolleyes:

vegggas

I've installed probably about 20 of the Maxtor QuickView Expander kits (SA approved kit - the only ones I use!) from buy dot com...
vegggasI tried to find this at buy dot com, but they don't appear to be selling them--I got links to Discount Technology and Weaknees instead. Have you bought one of these recently?

I tried to find this at buy dot com, but they don't appear to be selling them--I got links to Discount Technology and Weaknees instead. Have you bought one of these recently?

Try searching buy dot com for the following SKU: 10408425

You can always follow the shop partners (http://www.maxstore.com/searchresults.asp?search=keyword&search_field=description&search_criteria=quickview&image2.x=0&image2.y=0) links from the Maxtor (http://www.maxstore.com/searchresults.asp?search=keyword&search_field=description&search_criteria=quickview&image2.x=0&image2.y=0) page.

300GB PS QVX E-SATA/16MB QV EXPANDER EXT HDD-UP TO 185 HOURS - J08M300
Buy.com Sku: 10408425
http://www.buy.com/prod/300GB_PS_QVX_E_SATA_16MB_QV_EXPANDER_EXT_HDD_UP_TO_185_HOURS/q/loc/101/10408425.html

160GB PS QVX E-SATA/2MB QV EXPANDER EXT HDD-UP TO 100 HOURS - P08K160
Buy.com Sku: 10408424
http://www.buy.com/prod/160GB_PS_QVX_E_SATA_2MB_QV_EXPANDER_EXT_HDD_UP_TO_100_HOURS/q/loc/101/10408424.html

Holy smokes, 300 bucks for the 300G model? Love to know the exact model number of the drive, Maxtor bare drives run around $100 for 300Gs... I got 2 of them 3 months ago for $198.

But, for a complete kit that's plug and play, has complete instructions, works right out of the box, and has an approval of SA, it's worth it to many people.
Did I mention, that it works, right out of the box, and it's not a hassle?
I believe that if this was the ONLY option, this thread would be a LOT smaller. :rolleyes:

vegggas

Holy smokes, 300 bucks for the 300G model? Love to know the exact model number of the drive, Maxtor bare drives run around $100 for 300Gs... I got 2 of them 3 months ago for $198.
That's my take as well. A minor amount of handiness can save a lot of money. Of course, not everyone has a minor amount of handiness.

I took delivery today of the Western Digital 250GB SATA box built for the SA 8300 box. I followed the directions and powered down the box and then unplugged it. Then plugged in an already running drive and powered the box back up.

It asked me if I wanted to format the drive and I said yes. Less than a minute later a screen informed me that the drive had been formatted and was ready to use. I went from 60 percent free space left to 22 percent left.

So far, it is flawless. I have a recording beginning in a minute and plan to go look for the blue light on the front of the drive to wink at me.

I will keep you posed.

I took delivery today of the Western Digital 250GB SATA box built for the SA 8300 box. I followed the directions and powered down the box and then unplugged it. Then plugged in an already running drive and powered the box back up.

It asked me if I wanted to format the drive and I said yes. Less than a minute later a screen informed me that the drive had been formatted and was ready to use. I went from 60 percent free space left to 22 percent left.

So far, it is flawless. I have a recording beginning in a minute and plan to go look for the blue light on the front of the drive to wink at me.
Congratulations!

The overnight recording test was successful and there were no playback issues with the programs recorded on the WD. As a matter of clarification (I am sure you decrypted my messed up statement) prior to the WD external I had used 60 percent of the recording space. After the WD external was attached I showed only 22 percent used.

Thanks to the folks in this forum. I have been reading about this issue here for the past month. I have built a lot of my own external cases, but never a SATA case. I have found that most of the external cases are of very poor quality and prone to malfunction. I was not willing to experiment with SATA externals until I found one I liked. I have already done this with firewire.

The price of the WD was $199 and considering it was "fall off the tailgate of the truck simple" it was money, and time, well spent for me.

If I ever get rid of the 8300 I am sure there will be a market on ebay for the WD 250GB SATA external.

My next research project is a DVD recorder to use for dumping off stuff that I really want to save from the 8300. My first experiment with Samsung was very dissapointing.

Thanks again for lots of informative posts. It was because of this forum that I was able to show Charter how to fix the problems I had with my initial digital cable HD installation. It might have helped if Charter actually supplied the user manual to the customer, but they do not!!

I am amazed at how little the Charter Communication technical folks actually know about the equipment they install. I actually had a call back from the tech who came to my house asking me again how to put the SA box into the set-up wizard for the initial display configuration!

CDL

yes it does, I have been recording this way for over a year now, you can buy a external enclosure and a 500GB Hitachi sata ii hard drive for like 350 bucks total. I have 2.5 TB of recordings thats five 500gb drives with a seperate enclosure. the only thing is that you can only have one drive hooked up at one time though I heard of a company thats has a 2.5 TB enclosure with one sataii output with 5 500gb drives but it costs like 3000 bucks. Happy recording!

yes it does, I have been recording this way for over a year now, you can buy a external enclosure and a 500GB Hitachi sata ii hard drive for like 350 bucks total. I have 2.5 TB of recordings thats five 500gb drives with a seperate enclosure. the only thing is that you can only have one drive hooked up at one time though I heard of a company thats has a 2.5 TB enclosure with one sataii output with 5 500gb drives but it costs like 3000 bucks. Happy recording!

I wasn't sure which post you are responding to...

Just to clarify, you can swap multiple external hard drives on a single SA8300HD? The directory only shows the items on the internal and currently attached external drive?

Thanks.

Do any of you use a UPS for the SD 8300 and the external drive to guard against a power failure during a scheduled recording session? If so, what capacity/brand do you recommend?

Thanks

Do any of you use a UPS for the SD 8300 and the external drive to guard against a power failure during a scheduled recording session? If so, what capacity/brand do you recommend?

Thanks
I do on one of my 8300HDs. (Surge suppression on both.) I think it's a 200 or 250. The brand is APC.

Do any of you use a UPS for the SD 8300 and the external drive to guard against a power failure during a scheduled recording session? If so, what capacity/brand do you recommend?I'm sure audiophiles will cringe, but I use a 1500VA Belkin UPS to provide surge protection to my whole A/V rack, and to provide blackout protection for my STB. Got it for $99 from buy.com (http://www.buy.com/prod/Belkin_1500_VA_Dual_Form_Factor_Small_Enterprise_UPS_F6C1500 _TW_RK/q/loc/101/10391960.html) a few months ago. Looks like it's a few bucks more now, but still reasonably priced, especially considering free shipping for something so heavy.

I'm sure audiophiles will cringe, but I use a 1500VA Belkin UPS to provide surge protection to my whole A/V rack, and to provide blackout protection for my STB. Got it for $99 from buy.com (http://www.buy.com/prod/Belkin_1500_VA_Dual_Form_Factor_Small_Enterprise_UPS_F6C1500 _TW_RK/q/loc/101/10391960.html) a few months ago. Looks like it's a few bucks more now, but still reasonably priced, especially considering free shipping for something so heavy.

Yes, some audiophiles do shun surge protection and the like. I really think it has the potential to limit power from some of those very high current solid state amps. I use vacuum tubes and quest for the best 17.5 watts I can get for my 1958 vintage QUAD EL-57s.

I lost a 200 wpc solid state amp 10 years ago due to lightning and the surge protector did not protect anyway.

I was just planning on connecting the SA 8300 and the WD external SATA to the UPS in hope that a 1000 to 1500 VA supply would be enought to keep them going for about an hour in case a recording was in process. I guess I need to check the plates on both devices and get an idea of what kink of current they draw.

Thanks

I lost a 200 wpc solid state amp 10 years ago due to lightning and the surge protector did not protect anyway.No "surge suppressor" can truly protect against all surges. It's like security: Locking your car doors won't stop all thieves, but it'll stop the small-fries who are just looking for easy jobs. Surge suppressors probably won't save you from direct lightning strikes...but they might save you from the residual surge of a strike hitting 500 feet away. You pays your nickel and takes your chance.

I was just planning on connecting the SA 8300 and the WD external SATA to the UPS in hope that a 1000 to 1500 VA supply would be enought to keep them going for about an hour in case a recording was in process.It depends on the "freshness" of your battery, of course, but a brand-new 1500VA supply should be able to carry the load of the STB and an external hard drive for a good long while. I'd guess an hour, easy.

The same model UPS kept my computer up for about 20 minutes (when the auto-shutdown routine stalled out!), but that load included five hard drives, a variety of fans, and a 19" CRT--a much larger load than the 8300HD and an external drive.

Just came across this over at Tom's Hardware. A 500GB eSATA drive from Seagate:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/24/seagate_500_gb_external_hard_drive_goes_esata/

Looks like it might be a good solution with the 8300HD. According to Tom's pricing engine it can be had for under $300, which as I recall is less than the all-in-one 300GB Maxtor solution the veggas had mentioned...

Anybody have any experience with this drive?

Anyone know how the space remaining gets updated? I have SARA 8300HD. I plugged a Maxtor 250 in a WELLAND (BLACK) ALUMINUM ALLOY 3.5" SATA TO (eSATA & USB 2.0) EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE ENCLOSURE - RETAIL BOX (ME-740J).
I connected it to the SA and got the format message. I don't see any change in the space available, so I assume either it's not working with the SA regardless of the format message or it is and I won't see any change in the space remaining until I fill the external drive to the same point as the internal drive. If this works, I don't think I'd recommend the enclosure I bought even though it seems like a good product - no fan and it does get hot. If the STB does put some programs on the device, I'll look for another enclosure with better cooling.

Just came across this over at Tom's Hardware. A 500GB eSATA drive from Seagate:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/24/seagate_500_gb_external_hard_drive_goes_esata/

Looks like it might be a good solution with the 8300HD. According to Tom's pricing engine it can be had for under $300, which as I recall is less than the all-in-one 300GB Maxtor solution the veggas had mentioned...

Anybody have any experience with this drive?

Indeed, that pricing seems to be very much in the ballpark of "buy the drive and case and put them together" thing that I would do in a heartbeat (well last I looked I could put a DIY for 240-50; but that was waiting for a deal on a bare drive). The trick is to find out the exact drive model number... then one could go looking around to see how heat and the drive get along.

Although one never see this today, I remember back in the day when the very first Barracuda came out... of course I jumped right on it. You could fry a burger on it in about 13 seconds... I went through three of those suckers (externally no less) fry before I got one that seemed to last.

Just came across this over at Tom's Hardware. A 500GB eSATA drive from Seagate:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/24/seagate_500_gb_external_hard_drive_goes_esata/

Looks like it might be a good solution with the 8300HD. According to Tom's pricing engine it can be had for under $300, which as I recall is less than the all-in-one 300GB Maxtor solution the veggas had mentioned...

Anybody have any experience with this drive?
pepar-one-note here: No active cooling disqualifies this for me.

.... I remember back in the day when the very first Barracuda came out... of course I jumped right on it. You could fry a burger on it in about 13 seconds... I went through three of those suckers (externally no less) fry before I got one that seemed to last.
:D Was it a... Hemi (http://www.bcautos.com/musclecars/70cudahemi.html) ??

Anyone know how the space remaining gets updated? I have SARA 8300HD. I plugged a Maxtor 250 in a WELLAND (BLACK) ALUMINUM ALLOY 3.5" SATA TO (eSATA & USB 2.0) EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE ENCLOSURE - RETAIL BOX (ME-740J).
I connected it to the SA and got the format message. I don't see any change in the space available, so I assume either it's not working with the SA regardless of the format message or it is and I won't see any change in the space remaining until I fill the external drive to the same point as the internal drive. If this works, I don't think I'd recommend the enclosure I bought even though it seems like a good product - no fan and it does get hot. If the STB does put some programs on the device, I'll look for another enclosure with better cooling.

Sometimes you need to reboot a 2nd time to see the change in the "gas gauge". When you do that you should see a message when the box is turned on that it sees an external device that works with the DVR.

Definately get an enclosure with a fan.

Sometimes you need to reboot a 2nd time to see the change in the "gas gauge". When you do that you should see a message when the box is turned on that it sees an external device that works with the DVR.

Definately get an enclosure with a fan.
That's great info. I'll reboot the STB as soon as a current recording is finished and look for the message. An enclosure with a fan (prolly two as I have 2 8300's running) is already in my shopping cart, should this work - which an Adelphia tech says it won't. Of course another tech told me HDMI isn't supported (and he's half right), but that's another story..
Edit: A reboot updated the space used - dropped to 25% from 75%. Outstanding. Now I need to get that fan cooled enclosure. I'd appreciate any comments from those who have made the jump - here's one I'm considering http://meritline.stores.yahoo.net/cintre-zdisc-external-enclosure-ci-355su2.html but glad to hear from anyone with personal experience yea or nay. Thanks!
Final edit: RTF - I know and guilty as charged. Just looked back several pages and saw recommendations - mea maxima culpa.

pepar-one-note here: No active cooling disqualifies this for me.
Good point, but I couldn't find anywhere on the Seagate site whether it has active cooling or not. I assume you'd know. Looks like its the same case as their other external drives, so perhaps none have any active cooling.

In any event I have Passport 1.8.112 and digging around in this thread and others it looks like I'm sol for the external drive anyway...

I am close to getting a HD DVR here in Queens New York City.

I am doing so only because my JVC D-VHS cannot record anything with mosaic and audio dropouts since the new Passport 068 build for Time Warner Cable TWC.

Can someone tell me if the current TWC HD DVR can record all HD channels including those on the HD Xtra Tier channels like inHD, HDNET, and ESPN-HD?

Finally, once you have recorded the HD shows onto the DVR, can it be transferred into D-VHS or an external Hard drive or onto your Windows PC?

Thanks all,

Paul

I just got a 8300HD and right away wanted more HD space (I guess my Replaytv will be sold soon...I really enojoyed it), I decided to get a Maxtor 500GB like this one ($190):
http://snipurl.com/vjyv
and external case ($60):
http://snipurl.com/vjyz
Total was about $250, I connected it, it format it and works fine...my question is, is it normal for it to always be "accessing", the HD is always working and gets pretty warm.

Would I have been better off with:
http://snipurl.com/vjz5

The case I got does have a fan and it does cool a little better than a fanless one I tried first...im just worried about the heat and always accessing/working. Is this normal? Will the Seagate be any better? Its pretty much the same price, does it have a fan?

Absolutely Paul... despite a lot of carping about the 8300HD, it's one amazing piece of technology, and that opinion comes from someone with 20 years experience in computers. One small thing never mentioned... while there is no choice on recording speed, what you get is as close to identical to live as can be had. With a bunch of fancy test instruments, you might see some numerical differences, I seriously doubt anyone could tell visually.

About the "always accessing" thing, that would seem to indicate the buffer was being written to that external drive.

BTW, I try and make it a habit to check dealmac/dealnews.com every day. Some way good bargains can be had there (there's also a dealram as part of it's mix).

OK, so I succumbed to the lure of the 8300HD DVR.

I went to Queens Mall early yesterday with an older HD box I had to trade.

The 1st 8300HD box I received was manufactured in Jan 2005 and had no firewire 1394 plugs, so I waited for one with them. The one I finally got was made in June 2006 and seemed never used.

I have one of those Gefen $350 HDMI switches so I did A/B tests with a 3250HD and the 8300HD on my Westinghouse 37" LVM-37W3 1080p LCD panel.

Findings.

8300HD
1. Running 2.5066 os
2. THe channel numbers and info text are so much BETTER than the 3250HD's
3. The live recording worked flawlessly
4. HDMI looked brighter and perhaps a little less resolved than the 3250HD
5. I can't find a mode to not have the Hard Drive go on to see how the 8300HD tuner work and compare with the 3250HD
6. Western Digital hard drive inside was very quiet

Issues.
1. Both firewire 1394 jacks does not allow for recording onto my JVC HM-DH40000U D-VHS VCR. BIG PROBLEM for me!
2. Because of the above, I tried connecting said connection with Windows XP SP2 computer and that got nothing.

Based on 1 and 2, I don't think I can archive anything out of the internal hard drive into something like a dual layer DVD.

While the HDMI connection seemed brighter than the 3250HD's DVI connect. The 8300HD's component outputs seemed more color neutral versus the 3250HD's YPbPr connection.

Any of you with both boxes and had similar findings?

Any ways to work around the firewire issues?

Paul

OK, so I succumbed to the lure of the 8300HD DVR.

I went to Queens Mall early yesterday with an older HD box I had to trade.Paul

So Paul, your post has WHAT to do with adding an External Drive to the 8300?

You ought to do a search for threads regarding the use of Firewire ports - they exist, but this isn't it! ;)

That's fair.

How many SATA HD can you have? Unlimited and one at a time?

What is the cost factor then to store programs on the SATA drives for HD 1080i programs?





So Paul, your post has WHAT to do with adding an External Drive to the 8300?

You ought to do a search for threads regarding the use of Firewire ports - they exist, but this isn't it! ;)

How many SATA HD can you have? Unlimited and one at a time?

What is the cost factor then to store programs on the SATA drives for HD 1080i programs?

I believe that you are on Passport - the SATA drive is only partially implemented on some Passport systems. Check earlier in this thread for discussions relating to that.

From what we know about SARA systems (and I would assume that it will be the same for SARA), you can only have one external drive on at a time (does not support port multipliers) and realiably supports up to 300GB external drives (though there is some debate, with some reporting success with 500GB drives). For most cable HD programs (either 720p or 1080i) it uses about 8GB storage per hour. Cost depends on lots of stuff - if you buy a $300 pre-built 300GB drive then the costs are $8/hr capacity. People have put stuff together for a lot less (again, check earlier in this thread).

Dave,

What happens as you disconnect a filled external HD and replace it with another?
Can you go back to the 1st and watch shows there or will the DVR ask to format that 1st one after you reconnect it?

Paul



I believe that you are on Passport - the SATA drive is only partially implemented on some Passport systems. Check earlier in this thread for discussions relating to that.

From what we know about SARA systems (and I would assume that it will be the same for SARA), you can only have one external drive on at a time (does not support port multipliers) and realiably supports up to 300GB external drives (though there is some debate, with some reporting success with 500GB drives). For most cable HD programs (either 720p or 1080i) it uses about 8GB storage per hour. Cost depends on lots of stuff - if you buy a $300 pre-built 300GB drive then the costs are $8/hr capacity. People have put stuff together for a lot less (again, check earlier in this thread).

Funny thing - I just answered that on the Passport thread. But the answer does belong here, so I'll repeat it here:

I need to preface this with the comment that the following relates to SARA (but may well relate to Passport.

First, the external drive is formatted (after the DVR screen asks) the first time it is connected to the DVR. All data recorded on that drive (as well as the internal drive) is encrypted with a key unique to THAT DVR.

The directory (List) of programs recorded is stored in RAM (that's one limitation for the upper size of external drives). You can force this directory to be rebuilt, based on the actual drive contents, by forcing a hard reboot (unplug DVR power cord, wait 1 minute, while holding front panel POWER button in, plug power cord back in, release POWER button after "boot" appears on front panel.

If you remove a drive (CAUTION - unplug DVR when doing this) and connect another, it will format that new drive (after the set-up procedure) and treat this as a new drive (you should do a hard reboot to clear the directory of the program data on the removed drive).

Anytime you want to switch external drives, you should do a hard reboot after the swap so the directory knows what program is where. It is a bit messy, and on wouldn't want to switch external drives daily.

I should note, that not many people have done this. But there have been one or two reported successes with it.

I believe that you are on Passport - the SATA drive is only partially implemented on some Passport systems. Check earlier in this thread for discussions relating to that.

From what we know about SARA systems (and I would assume that it will be the same for SARA), you can only have one external drive on at a time (does not support port multipliers) and realiably supports up to 300GB external drives (though there is some debate, with some reporting success with 500GB drives). For most cable HD programs (either 720p or 1080i) it uses about 8GB storage per hour. Cost depends on lots of stuff - if you buy a $300 pre-built 300GB drive then the costs are $8/hr capacity. People have put stuff together for a lot less (again, check earlier in this thread).
I have about 80GB of remaining space on my Passport 052 8300HD/500GB external combo. It is functioning flawlessly thus far.

Dave,

I assume the content of the eSATA external will be protected and readable only to the coding 8300HD box in use.

What about simply offloading said content onto some eSATA server where the size could be unlimited and managed by a computer? Wouldn't that be terrific!

Dreaming in Queens,

Paul

Dave,

I assume the content of the eSATA external will be protected and readable only to the coding 8300HD box in use. YES


What about simply offloading said content onto some eSATA server where the size could be unlimited and managed by a computer? Wouldn't that be terrific!

Dreaming in Queens,

Paul YES (Dreaming) ;)

Thanks to all who contribute to these forums - it helps us new guys a lot.

I'm in Northwest Florida - Gulfcoast Cox Cable

First I ordered the parts from Newegg based on my readings here in the forum. Then after the drive enclosure arrived, I found it included only an internal SATA to external SATA connector so I located a reasonably priced eSATA to eSATA one from SATACABLES. 320gb SATAII external for less than 150 total. I'm sure better deals could be found, but I was impatient and no rebates were involved.

I plugged it in - did about three reboots before I got it all in the right order. I wish I could describe the exact sequence but the OS messages from the SA box would go away before I could read some and I think I rebooted once without cause (impatience again) - I didn't fully understand the boot up vs normal start up sequence and the time difference and visual cues. But inspite of me the used disk space went from 7% used to 4% used so I think I was successful.

Newegg:

Rosewill RX343-S SLV 3.5" eSATA and USB 2.0 External Enclosure - Retail
Item #: N82E16817173023
Comes with The power adapter, USB cable, and eSATA to internal SATA cable.(25mm fan with an on/off switch for your choice of active or passive cooling)

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822148140

Quality Cables USA Inc.: goes by SATACABLES on the internet


Part: SS-1ESES eSATA to eSATA Cable (1m - 3ft.)
This had the flat eSATA connectors on both ends instead of the internal type that have the little "L" shape.

Good luck!

Dave, couple of questions (ah for some real documentation to this software!)... if the directory isn't written anywhere and only exists in RAM, then it would have to be dynamically read from that drive (i.e. after a hard boot). Which is kinda hard to believe... given I have a feeling as to length of time to scavenge a disk to create a directory. Which would then seem to imply that Paul's "multiple drives" could work.

Then again, my guess is the reason the cablecos have DVRs at all is mostly aimed at the "live trick play" stuff and being scared by what TiVo & Replay were doing; I can NOT imagine they want us archiving anything. One has to have an active account to even use the 8300, the box IS a bunch of dead metal unless you have an active cable plugged into it!

I will likely just get the 8300HD back and burn one in over a week to see if I can get the resolution and color issues out with HDMI. (I posted my findings this past weekend..)

The external hard drive solution is cost effective in my eye.

It still cost $10 for a 2.5 hour D-VHS HD tape from JVC or Panasonic. If I can spend $250 on a Seagate 500GB hard drive and can store at least 25 two hour HD programs, then the external drive is the same in cost to me.

The problems with hard drive and DVR can be listed:
1. Initial power on kinks
2. Hard to access that program at the end
3. You need to power up the hard drive, the DVR instead of just a D-VHS VCR
4. Corruption means death to all 25 HD programs

may be others.

Paul



Dave, couple of questions (ah for some real documentation to this software!)... if the directory isn't written anywhere and only exists in RAM, then it would have to be dynamically read from that drive (i.e. after a hard boot). Which is kinda hard to believe... given I have a feeling as to length of time to scavenge a disk to create a directory. Which would then seem to imply that Paul's "multiple drives" could work.

Then again, my guess is the reason the cablecos have DVRs at all is mostly aimed at the "live trick play" stuff and being scared by what TiVo & Replay were doing; I can NOT imagine they want us archiving anything. One has to have an active account to even use the 8300, the box IS a bunch of dead metal unless you have an active cable plugged into it!

Then again, my guess is the reason the cablecos have DVRs at all is mostly aimed at the "live trick play" stuff and being scared by what TiVo & Replay were doing; I can NOT imagine they want us archiving anything. One has to have an active account to even use the 8300, the box IS a bunch of dead metal unless you have an active cable plugged into it!
Tolerating us time-shifting is probably more like it, with "time-shifting" being sufficiently nebulous as to the offset. And yes, my guess is that it's a "me too" feature. The really unenthused parties have to be the studios as the DVR has already changed my DVD buying habits, and is a big factor in my staying on the sidelines for HD-DVD/BluRay.

Dave, couple of questions (ah for some real documentation to this software!)... if the directory isn't written anywhere and only exists in RAM, then it would have to be dynamically read from that drive (i.e. after a hard boot). Which is kinda hard to believe... given I have a feeling as to length of time to scavenge a disk to create a directory. Which would then seem to imply that Paul's "multiple drives" could work.

Then again, my guess is the reason the cablecos have DVRs at all is mostly aimed at the "live trick play" stuff and being scared by what TiVo & Replay were doing; I can NOT imagine they want us archiving anything. One has to have an active account to even use the 8300, the box IS a bunch of dead metal unless you have an active cable plugged into it!

And the questions are?

The concept that the directory exists in RAM has been discussed and verified several times on the external drive thread.

I will likely just get the 8300HD back and burn one in over a week to see if I can get the resolution and color issues out with HDMI. (I posted my findings this past weekend..)

The external hard drive solution is cost effective in my eye.

It still cost $10 for a 2.5 hour D-VHS HD tape from JVC or Panasonic. If I can spend $250 on a Seagate 500GB hard drive and can store at least 25 two hour HD programs, then the external drive is the same in cost to me.

The problems with hard drive and DVR can be listed:
1. Initial power on kinks
2. Hard to access that program at the end
3. You need to power up the hard drive, the DVR instead of just a D-VHS VCR
4. Corruption means death to all 25 HD programs

may be others.

Paul

All valid problems. I'd probably go with the D-VHS approach if I had the drive and Firewire DID work from the 8300HD. But............... :o

The really unenthused parties have to be the studios as the DVR has already changed my DVD buying habits, and is a big factor in my staying on the sidelines for HD-DVD/BluRay.

Indeed, given the amount of money I tithe over to TWC every month, I'm quite disinclined to buy DVDs. And I'm "voting with my wallet" and won't buy any HD optical until there is one and only one standard. AND by the time that happens, I probably won't buy either because (theoretically) the "cable" source for HD will be far greater than it is today.

Dave, far as I know, this the only thread about external drives that is relevant to me. I guess I need to read through the whole thing...when I first joined, I think I only read through the last 5 pages at the time.

Guess I didn't state the question clearly enough, but it had to do with how it could dynamically create a directory when my experience is that performing such a function is not at all fast. The overall issue was about having multiple external drives with different content on them and "swapping" them to be able to access that content. I got the impression that "directory in RAM" was that would would prevent that, and that didn't make sense to me as a reason, given that I do know a bit about how storage devices work in the computer world.

In any case, I don't want to belabor this...

.......how it could dynamically create a directory when my experience is that performing such a function is not at all fast.

It isn't all that fast (5-10 minutes). So switching drives is possible, it may not be very practical.

Perhaps the point of confusion is that everytime the external drive is swapped, one needs to do a hard reboot to build the RAM directory to reflect the drives (internal + external) currently connected.

It isn't all that fast (5-10 minutes). So switching drives is possible, it may not be very practical.

Perhaps the point of confusion is that everytime the external drive is swapped, one needs to do a hard reboot to build the RAM directory to reflect the drives (internal + external) currently connected.
I've got a working - and almost full - 500GB external drive with nearly 40 hi-def movies. I've considered giving the ext drive swap thing a try - there's been a report or two of it working. But either I'm satisfied with the status quo or inertia has been enough to put me off trying it. And then there's the possibility it simply would not work. Or worse, something would go south and I'd lose the 40 I've already got.

I've got a working - and almost full - 500GB external drive with nearly 40 hi-def movies. I've considered giving the ext drive swap thing a try - there's been a report or two of it working. But either I'm satisfied with the status quo or inertia has been enough to put me off trying it. And then there's the possibility it simply would not work. Or worse, something would go south and I'd lose the 40 I've already got.

But someone (for Passport) has always got to be first!

But someone (for Passport) has always got to be first!
Perhaps, but it won't be me. ;)

Is it at all possible to put a eSATA card into your computer and transfer all the "protected stuff" of your external eSATA drive? Sure, none of that "stuff" is usable by your computer, but it is stored in case it's wipe out.

Perhaps you can transfer it back onto that external and get it to work once again.

I am also about to do this, so just thinking out loud....

Paul



I've got a working - and almost full - 500GB external drive with nearly 40 hi-def movies. I've considered giving the ext drive swap thing a try - there's been a report or two of it working. But either I'm satisfied with the status quo or inertia has been enough to put me off trying it. And then there's the possibility it simply would not work. Or worse, something would go south and I'd lose the 40 I've already got.

Same here Dave, almost $160 a month to TWC.......

THe Blu-ray promises 1080p and my latest panel is 1080p rated, so it will be happy. I am pretty sure TWC will make 1080p available in coming years so I am also not inclined to be a big buyer of Blu-ray DVDs if I can watch it and store it in 1080p with my DVR....

Paul




Indeed, given the amount of money I tithe over to TWC every month, I'm quite disinclined to buy DVDs. And I'm "voting with my wallet" and won't buy any HD optical until there is one and only one standard. AND by the time that happens, I probably won't buy either because (theoretically) the "cable" source for HD will be far greater than it is today.

Dave, far as I know, this the only thread about external drives that is relevant to me. I guess I need to read through the whole thing...when I first joined, I think I only read through the last 5 pages at the time.

Guess I didn't state the question clearly enough, but it had to do with how it could dynamically create a directory when my experience is that performing such a function is not at all fast. The overall issue was about having multiple external drives with different content on them and "swapping" them to be able to access that content. I got the impression that "directory in RAM" was that would would prevent that, and that didn't make sense to me as a reason, given that I do know a bit about how storage devices work in the computer world.

In any case, I don't want to belabor this...

Is it at all possible to put a eSATA card into your computer and transfer all the "protected stuff" of your external eSATA drive? Sure, none of that "stuff" is usable by your computer, but it is stored in case it's wipe out.

Perhaps you can transfer it back onto that external and get it to work once again.

I am also about to do this, so just thinking out loud....

Paul
Nice thinking, but I'm sure that a PC - or Mac for that matter - would not "see" the content. Actually, the drive would look unformatted to the computer. I've seen tools available for law enforcement that apparently "see" everything. Whether or not software like that could make a bit for bit copy, I don't know.

pepar,

I sure hope you don't have to replace your 8300 and lose all those recordings. :)

pepar,

I sure hope you don't have to replace your 8300 and lose all those recordings. :)
:eek:

Indeed, the first trick in trying to "read" that drive is knowing exactly what the format is.

Computer OSes generally can read multiple disk formats, like FAT32, HFS, IS9660, NTSF, etc. Both can also read UDF (the format on movie DVDs).

I'm actually quite surprised that someone hasn't figured out what PowerTV uses (I'm assuming the underlying OS handles that, not Passport or SARA, but it wouldn't surprise me those applications might not add something proprietary to that mix).

Pepar, 40 hours and it's full? They claim 20 for the 160G drive in the 8300, 500G should get you more than 40 even with the overhead... wouldn't you think? Now all we need to do is talk you into a HD Marathon so you can try some HD swapping!

Failure - Seagate + Vantec

Got these from newegg:
320 gb Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS
N82E16822148140

VANTEC NST-360SU-BK
N82E16817145167

Powered everything thing up and connected with cable supplied with enclosure.
After a couple of seconds, I got error:
"The external recording device is not functioning properly. Check to make sure the power and data cables are plugged in properly."

Powered everything down and put jumper back on for 150 mode.
After power up and re-connect, I got same error.
I've just started following this thread, but I believe it was stated earlier that you have to use a SATA I to SATA II cable for this to work. Is that the type of cable you're using?

I've just started following this thread, but I believe it was stated earlier that you have to use a SATA I to SATA II cable for this to work. Is that the type of cable you're using?
The cable needed is dependant on the type connectors on the two devices; the 8300HD certainly has an eSATA connector, but the external enclosure could have an eSATA connector or an internal L-type SATA connector. In the case of the latter, the mating connector is needed on one end of the cable. Electrically (and "signally") there is no difference between the two connectors.

Yes, and it is getting a little hard to figure out what you will need from the drive data sheets.

Hi all,

Just upgraded my external storage drive to the Seagate SATA2 750gb hard drive. Works great. Bought it and a new external case (AZIO eSATA case) from Newegg. The case comes with the eSATA cable so this is all you need.

The above was posted on July 27th. Wanted to give update that the drive / case combo has operated flawlessly. The case is relatively cool to the touch. Hopefully the drive is happy on the inside. I am very happy so far...

Who here has manage to connect to an internal SATA drive of a computer?

The above was posted on July 27th. Wanted to give update that the drive / case combo has operated flawlessly. The case is relatively cool to the touch. Hopefully the drive is happy on the inside. I am very happy so far...
You never mentioned the free space you had after making the connection. Just curious how much overhead there was and if 160GB was thrown out for that reason. There are different readings for formatted space, available space (for use), and free space. The important reading is available space, since all the formatted space is never available.

vegggas

Who here has manage to connect to an internal SATA drive of a computer?
Nobody. That's the point of secure data.

vegggas

Just upgraded my external storage drive to the Seagate SATA2 750gb hard drive. Works great. Bought it and a new external case (AZIO eSATA case) from Newegg. The case comes with the eSATA cable so this is all you need.

. . . Wanted to give update that the drive / case combo has operated flawlessly. The case is relatively cool to the touch. Hopefully the drive is happy on the inside. I am very happy so far...
Clearly going where no one has gone before . . . :)

You never mentioned the free space you had after making the connection. Just curious how much overhead there was and if 160GB was thrown out for that reason. There are different readings for formatted space, available space (for use), and free space. The important reading is available space, since all the formatted space is never available.

vegggas

I guess I can add up my recordings and % available and report to you all. Be back soon.

The above was posted on July 27th. Wanted to give update that the drive / case combo has operated flawlessly. The case is relatively cool to the touch. Hopefully the drive is happy on the inside. I am very happy so far...


Just curious as to whether or not you have noticed any blocking or random pixelations with that setup. I have a 400g Seagate with the Vantec case and it works fairly well most of the time. My only complaint is the random pixelation for no apparent reason. I know alot of other users have the same complaint as well. I noticed that on CSI NY last night it was doing it and it was not even recording. It was doing it on a live TV feed, but I noticed the external drive was blinking away buffering the show.So I turned off my external to force it to use the internal drive, and the artifacts stopped. My box writes pretty much everything to the external since it is way bigger than the internal, so the internal is pretty much empty. I figure to work around this I'll just leave off my external drive until I have managed to almost fill up the internal drive and then I'll switch the external drive back on for the extra storage. I've noticed it does it much more on the HD content. It's not a deal breaker on the external drive, but sure is annoying with it does it. Has anyone else found a work around or way to stop the random pixelizations on recordings.

Thanks,

Bri

After reading this thread the last couple of days, I decided to stop by CompUSA and pick up a drive. I ended up with a Seagate 300GB eSata drive. My 8300HD is running Passport version 2.5.066. After setting up the drive (which simply consisted of unpacking it and snapping on the stand), I unplugged the 8300, plugged the eSata cable into both the drive and the 8300, powered up the drive, then the 8300. At first the 8300 didn't see the drive, but then I rebooted the 8300, and when it came back up it saw the drive and prompted me to format it. After formatting, everything was working.

I went to the diag screen to see what the new capacity was, and it read 411.1 GB. I believe it was previously in the low 150's, so adding the 300GB drive gives me approximately 255 - 260GB additional space. So there's a bit more overhead than I expected

I did see the problem that eveyone has mentioned where you can't FF or RW a live program when the recording is being done on the external drive. However, a simple workaround is to press the record button to record the current program, then press list and tell it to play the program curently being recorded. You can then RW and subsequently FF like normal.

I did see the problem that eveyone has mentioned where you can't FF or RW a live program when the recording is being done on the external drive.

Cogratulations,

However: it is NOT "EVERYONE", or even MOST people who have mentioned this problem. It is only a problem for those with recent Passport software (a lot of the current Passport software installations still do not support ANY external drive). Those with SARA (which are probably still the majority of those active in this forum) have no such problems.

It would be a good idea these days to post which system you have.

Cogratulations,

However: it is NOT "EVERYONE", or even MOST people who have mentioned this problem. It is only a problem for those with recent Passport software (a lot of the current Passport software installations still do not support ANY external drive). Those with SARA (which are probably still the majority of those active in this forum) have no such problems.

It would be a good idea these days to post which system you have.
Thanks for the clarification.

I've read in earlier posts that an enclosure with a fan is recommened. The unit I bought doesn't have a fan, so I may end up exchanging it for a separate drive and enclosure with a fan. My only concern is that the fan may be noisy. Can anyone recommend an enclosure with a quiet fan?

Just curious as to whether or not you have noticed any blocking or random pixelations with that setup. I have a 400g Seagate with the Vantec case and it works fairly well most of the time. My only complaint is the random pixelation for no apparent reason. I know alot of other users have the same complaint as well. I noticed that on CSI NY last night it was doing it and it was not even recording. It was doing it on a live TV feed, but I noticed the external drive was blinking away buffering the show.So I turned off my external to force it to use the internal drive, and the artifacts stopped. My box writes pretty much everything to the external since it is way bigger than the internal, so the internal is pretty much empty. I figure to work around this I'll just leave off my external drive until I have managed to almost fill up the internal drive and then I'll switch the external drive back on for the extra storage. I've noticed it does it much more on the HD content. It's not a deal breaker on the external drive, but sure is annoying with it does it. Has anyone else found a work around or way to stop the random pixelizations on recordings.

Thanks,

Bri

Bri

I do get that random noise, but I assumed it was dropouts on my signal. I have signal strength of -8db and was going to try to improve it. I will watch out for this issue.

You never mentioned the free space you had after making the connection. Just curious how much overhead there was and if 160GB was thrown out for that reason. There are different readings for formatted space, available space (for use), and free space. The important reading is available space, since all the formatted space is never available.

vegggas


I guess I can add up my recordings and % available and report to you all. Be back soon.

Vegggas,

On my SA8300HD + 750gb external drive setup, here is the current storage:

DVR Recording space used = 59% on 66 recordings

Diagnostics shows:
Drive 1:
160gb native
Capacity 152gb = 5% less than native
ITFS partition 1gb
AVFS partition 150gb = 6.25% overhead from native
Reserved 1 gb
ITFS free space 957mb
AVFS free space 33gb
Drive2:
750gb native
Capacity 698gb = 7% less than native
ITFS partition 1gb
AVFS partition 679gb = 9.5% overhead from native
Reserved 1 gb
ITFS free space 850mb
AVFS free space 292gb

I summarized my recordings:
HD 52 recordings of 84.4 hours
SD 13 recordings of 9.6 hours

Hope this answers the question you had in mind. Please let me know how you interpret this data.

Thats exactly what I was referring to. You broke down the advertised, formatted, and usable size of the drive.
Hope this works well for you!

vegggas

HD 52 recordings of 84.4 hours
SD 13 recordings of 9.6 hours

Please let me know how you interpret this data.

While I love getting into the nitty gritty details of all this, sometimes I think we might lose sight of the essential point... the ability to record almost 85 hours of HD content!

...and it's only 60% full! :)

Dennis, I think you and I have the same cable provider. As such, what do we do after your 750GB external is full?

Also, anyways to edit out those extra minutes in front and back of the recorded content?

Thanks,

Paul





Vegggas,

On my SA8300HD + 750gb external drive setup, here is the current storage:

...
Hope this answers the question you had in mind. Please let me know how you interpret this data.

Also, anyways to edit out those extra minutes in front and back of the recorded content?
No.

veggas, as you seem to be very knowledgeable about these things, what is the ITFS...I was looking at Dan's 1GB ITFS and the used portion and wondering what it is?

sorry if this has been discussed...i've followed this thread from the beginning, but it has been so long now that i've likely forgotten a great deal :D

veggas, as you seem to be very knowledgeable about these things, what is the ITFS...I was looking at Dan's 1GB ITFS and the used portion and wondering what it is?

sorry if this has been discussed...i've followed this thread from the beginning, but it has been so long now that i've likely forgotten a great deal :D
Not sure without looking through some white papers, but generally I think it would be the PowerTv software's Interactive TV File system. This would hold the permanent residual locations of files on the main partition. When you do a hard reboot and rebuild the file tables in memory, it would come from this partition. However, the memory space is much smaller than the hard drive storage area, so bad things could happen if the file structure is larger than available memory. Available memory for apps is determined by th eapps already in use by your cable co and options used on your DVR. The more that are used, the less memory you have for the file tables being edited in memory. This is my common thought on why larger drives work on some STB's and not others.

vegggas

Dennis, I think you and I have the same cable provider. As such, what do we do after your 750GB external is full?

Also, anyways to edit out those extra minutes in front and back of the recorded content?

Thanks,

Paul

Cablevision LI currently doesn't appear to have the copy protect flag on the 1394 port turned on. I can archive recordings to my JVC D-VHS recorder. So this is one way to empty. Another way is just to delete some stuff.

Not sure without looking through some white papers, but generally I think it would be the PowerTv software's Interactive TV File system. This would hold the permanent residual locations of files on the main partition. When you do a hard reboot and rebuild the file tables in memory, it would come from this partition. However, the memory space is much smaller than the hard drive storage area, so bad things could happen if the file structure is larger than available memory. Available memory for apps is determined by th eapps already in use by your cable co and options used on your DVR. The more that are used, the less memory you have for the file tables being edited in memory. This is my common thought on why larger drives work on some STB's and not others.

vegggas

thanx vegggas

Cablevision LI currently doesn't appear to have the copy protect flag on the 1394 port turned on. I can archive recordings to my JVC D-VHS recorder. So this is one way to empty. Another way is just to delete some stuff.

you have an 8300? i have cablevision LI and my 8300 boxes don't have 1394 ports...i was told that i would need to ask for a special version...

you have an 8300? i have cablevision LI and my 8300 boxes don't have 1394 ports...i was told that i would need to ask for a special version...

Cablevision has boxes with and without 1394. You tell them you have a TV with firewire and they will provide you with the 8300 with the 1394 ports.

This looks failry interesting - all inclusive

quickview (http://www.weaknees.com/maxtor_qvx.php)


I have had this in service for a few months now. It works great for expanding the amount I can record. Playback is almost 100% however on HD content it has an occasional but repeteaded stutter. It's a short one so it doesn't distract from the watching much.. still noy perfec

Just bought a WD500 at Circuit City (great Labor Day price $160, no rebates required). Since my SA8300 has a WD drive in it, I assume this will be most compatable. Now I need a box. Is this "all" I need:

http://www.etech4sale.com/hardware/partinfo-id-148728.html

I see many folks here using that case, or are there better deals out there?

Just bought a WD500 at Circuit City (great Labor Day price $160, no rebates required). Since my SA8300 has a WD drive in it, I assume this will be most compatable. Now I need a box. Is this "all" I need:

http://www.etech4sale.com/hardware/partinfo-id-148728.html

I see many folks here using that case, or are there better deals out there?
If the drive is 7200RPM with a healthy (=/>8MB) buffer, you're good to go, though the maker of the internal drive has no bearing on the selection of the external drive.

As for the case, it's argued here as to whether or not active cooling is a must have feature. Some, recently, bought fanless enclosures, felt that they got hot and switched to a model wth a fan. Here's the logic that leads me to be a proponent of active cooling in this, . . . ummm - case:

1. The external drive runs 24/7/365 and holds data we'd rather not lose.

2. Heat is the enemy of electronic and delicate mechanical components.

3. Enclosures with fans don't cost that much more than those without when considering the overall cost of the entire assembly and #s 1 & 2.

Just my $.03.

pepar,

Just when did your advice become worth $.03 instead of $.02? I realize there is the inflation factor, but isn't 33% a bit much? :) :D :)

pepar,

Just when did your advice become worth $.03 instead of $.02? I realize there is the inflation factor, but isn't 33% a bit much? :) :D :)
Haha! That crossed my mind as I hit "submit." The saying is decades - centuries? - old and has never been adjusted for inflation. But even so, my advice may still only be worth $.02. Or $.01. ;)

edit: If a requester only offers a penny for your thoughts, how is it that unsolicited advice is worth $.02? :D

In noodling around I see that single drive cases with a fan are pretty rare, most don't have one. Dual drive cases (I have 3 of those items!) seem to always have fans; dual drive "pure" SATA ones run about 80 bucks (no need for any electronics).

Like I said before, I think placement has a much bigger impact on heat than fan or not.

OK, I've narrowed it down to (all seem to come with the correct eSata cable):

no fan -Azio:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=104205&prodlist=yahoo

no fan - Vantech:
http://www.xpcgear.com/nst360subk.html

no fan - Kingwin (cheap):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817121020

fan - Rosewill:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817173022

The AZIO seems most popular (seems to have good ventalation design), but the Rosewill is cheap with a fan... any one of these NOT a good idea?

In noodling around I see that single drive cases with a fan are pretty rare, most don't have one. Dual drive cases (I have 3 of those items!) seem to always have fans; dual drive "pure" SATA ones run about 80 bucks (no need for any electronics).

Like I said before, I think placement has a much bigger impact on heat than fan or not.
If you're referring to placement near a heat source, or even placement that prevents/inhibits airflow, I'm witcha on that one. But then, in those scenarios, a fan would be even more important (in my opinion).

My case from Firewiredirect.com will hold two drives. I placed the single drive in the bottom bay with the thinking that the extra space above it would be better for airflow/cooling.

Exactly, a lot of folks never think about heat issues when "arranging" equipment, they just stick it where they see it being most convenient. When my day comes, I have the entire lower shelf on my stand free; a fan is much less necessary in that location because it has tons of airflow and zero other sources of heat; all that stuff is above it and through a thick wooden shelf.

Indeed I know the case you have, I already have 3 of them (1 FW800 and 2 SATA) sitting on top of my computer (they all contain 2 drives so they stand vertically). I always figured you were doing some form of homage to me <g> because that case looks exactly like my computer! While it's aluminum cheese grater look I find appropriately hi-tech, it sure does allow for a maximum amount of airflow. I'd orient it exactly as you have, the fan should sit and blow over the top of the drive, not underneath it.

Now if you could get them to fracking fix the trick play bug AND roll out 2.5.070 or above, THEN I'd be happy.

Indeed I know the case you have, I already have 3 of them (1 FW800 and 2 SATA) sitting on top of my computer (they all contain 2 drives so they stand vertically). I always figured you were doing some form of homage to me <g> because that case looks exactly like my computer! While it's aluminum cheese grater look I find appropriately hi-tech, it sure does allow for a maximum amount of airflow. I'd orient it exactly as you have, the fan should sit and blow over the top of the drive, not underneath it.
When I began my search, I started seeing a lot of cool G5-style models, so I googled "G5 enclosure" and found the Firewiredirect site. I have an extra case that I'm going to test with a quieter fan and, hopefully, a dimmer LED.

When I began my search, I started seeing a lot of cool G5-style models, so I googled "G5 enclosure" and found the Firewiredirect site. I have an extra case that I'm going to test with a quieter fan and, hopefully, a dimmer LED.

It looks like I found the same case for a little cheaper than Firewire Direct:

http://www.cooldrives.com/dudralenfors.html

There is also a single drive alternative for even less:

http://www.cooldrives.com/onba3esusb20.html

(It doesn't include the eSATA cable though).

Just found another and it looks kinda interesting. The full kit is only $40:

http://www.addonics.com/products/combo_hdd/aechdsa35.asp

Just a heads up - bestbuy.com has a 500GB WD SATA drive on sale for $159.99. Even better, they had recently sent out a 10% off coupon email, so final price was 143.99 + tax.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7821967&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat33200050001&id=1142294266760

It looks like I found the same case for a little cheaper than Firewire Direct .
Yes, indeed you have. Good find! I recently discovered CoolDrives while researching adding a four-drive 0+1 Raptor array o my speed demon PC. The single drive case looks good, but I have concerns about it having a USB connector as that suggests actve electronics. My preference is for strictly a mechanical connection.

Good post, SGinAZ!

Yesterday I picked up a eSATA external case (w/power supply and cables) on sale at Micro Center for about $25. I had a 250 GB Maxtor SATA drive that I had picked up about 6 months ago on sale after rebates for about $50. It only took about 15 minutes to install the drive in the case and use the eSATA cable supplied with the case to connect to my HD8300. Everything seems to have gone smoothly with the HD8300 detecting the external drive and prompting me to confirm that I wanted to format it. After that the HD8300's service menu now lists both the internal and external drives.

Ron Jones

Ron,

Does the external drive housing have an USB2 port in addition to the eSATA port? If so, what happens when you connected it to your computer?

If you have another SATA drive, can you connect that and see if you can build a third and not lose stuff on the 2nd. Since your 2nd is still new, maybe this is a good time to test.

I have a bunch of stuff ordered as I type. It's only a week+ and my 8300HD is nearly full.

Which service menu do you use to access the hard drive diagnostics on the 8300HD?

Thanks,

Paul



Yesterday I picked up a eSATA external case (w/power supply and cables) on sale at Micro Center for about $25. I had a 250 GB Maxtor SATA drive that I had picked up about 6 months ago on sale after rebates for about $50. It only took about 15 minutes to install the drive in the case and use the eSATA cable supplied with the case to connect to my HD8300. Everything seems to have gone smoothly with the HD8300 detecting the external drive and prompting me to confirm that I wanted to format it. After that the HD8300's service menu now lists both the internal and external drives.

Ron Jones

Boy, that single drive case does look interesting. The 3' eSATA cable, normally at 30 bucks, is around 10, so it's a 50 buck item assuming that 10 buck price doesn't go away. I kinda agree about the USB port, but I suspect that's the only fallback (i.e. for whatever reason you can't use it any more for hooking to a HD STB) for most folks; no matter to me as I already have 4 eSATA ports on my computer.

I would suppose the fan blows towards the drive body, but I'm curious of it might be "cool more" if it blew away from the case??

Ron,

Does the external drive housing have an USB2 port in addition to the eSATA port? If so, what happens when you connected it to your computer?
We've touched on this already. A PC or Mac will not only not see the content on the drive, it will see the drive as unformatted. Furthermore, the recorded content is HEAVILY encrypted and could not be accessed even if the computer saw files.

The $25 eSATA case I purchased on sale at MicroCenter was their house brand (PowerSpec) and it does not appear to be on their web site. It only has an eSATA interface connector (no USB nor Firewire). I does come with a eSATA cable that works with the HD8300 DVR and also comes with a SATA cable and connector plate for installation in a PC that doesn't have an external SATA connector (but does have an internal SATA controller). Of course the latter cable/plate is not needed to simply use the SATA drive with the HD8300. Thus for use with the HD8300, it includes everything you need except for the SATA hard drive itself.

Ron Jones

OK, I've narrowed it down to (all seem to come with the correct eSata cable):

no fan -Azio:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=104205&prodlist=yahoo

no fan - Vantech:
http://www.xpcgear.com/nst360subk.html

no fan - Kingwin (cheap):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817121020

fan - Rosewill:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817173022

The AZIO seems most popular (seems to have good ventalation design), but the Rosewill is cheap with a fan... any one of these NOT a good idea?
I just got the Rosewill, and the fan is louder than I'm willing to tolerate. It does have a switch for the fan, so for the time being I'll simply turn off the fan while I'm watching something and turn it back on when I'm done. If anyone finds a unit with a quiet fan, please let us know.

We've touched on this already. A PC or Mac will not only not see the content on the drive, it will see the drive as unformatted. Furthermore, the recorded content is HEAVILY encrypted and could not be accessed even if the computer saw files.

Of course; I did say "fallback." Perhaps a bad assumption that folks would take that to mean "I can still get use out of my investment to hold data on my computer if there an issue and I can't use it with my DVR."

Of course, that does NOT preclude a sourceforge project to decipher the disk format, then suck in the video. It CAN be done, the only question is whether someone with enough knowledge is willing to spend the time doing it. I'm sure the harder part is the disk format, breaking encrypted video is being done successfully by many folks already.

Of course; I did say "fallback." Perhaps a bad assumption that folks would take that to mean "I can still get use out of my investment to hold data on my computer if there an issue and I can't use it with my DVR."

Of course, that does NOT preclude a sourceforge project to decipher the disk format, then suck in the video. It CAN be done, the only question is whether someone with enough knowledge is willing to spend the time doing it. I'm sure the harder part is the disk format, breaking encrypted video is being done successfully by many folks already.
I read somewhere that the "industry" hired a few of the best black hats and put them together with their white hats and the best they could do was decrypt one stream from one box one time. Think about it; would content providers allow us to have a hard drive full of hi-def movies if we could do anything with them other than watch them on our systems?

Of course; I did say "fallback." Perhaps a bad assumption that folks would take that to mean "I can still get use out of my investment to hold data on my computer if there an issue and I can't use it with my DVR.".
Of course, it's always got a job in IT. :)

Guys,

I bought a 750GB Seagate SATA drive, popped it into the "firewiredirect" 2 HD setup, and followed the instructions as to how and when to hook up the devices... Following that, my screen said - "would you like to format the external drive?" I pressed "A" and thought that was all.

Turns out, after that, nothing happened! I went to see if the capacity was increased, nope. Im not sure what I should do next, maybe try it again? Let me know-

-mogurf21

PS- my 8300HD is running SARA 1.88.15.3 firmware.

You should reboot a 2nd time (unplug just the 8300 power for 30 sec or so - don't unplug the drive). That usually does it.

update:

I re-booted my 8300HD, and voila- my recording space went from 31% to 4%. I successfully added my 750GB HD

Components I used:

1. Seagate 750GB internal SATA 3.5" HD purchased at Best Buy.
2. Firewiredirect.com SATA dual HD enclosure with fan and ventilation up front.

Ill let you guys know how things progress.

Please clarify this ..M21,

1. Is this the very SATA drive you got?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2203982&Sku=TSD-750AS&SRCCODE=GOOGLEBASE&CMP=OTC-GOOGLEBASE

2. How do you get the "recorded space" on the hard drive data from the 8300HD box? A channel number on the cable box?

3. Does that dual drive enclosure fan blows out or in? How's the noise?

Thanks!

Paul




update:

I re-booted my 8300HD, and voila- my recording space went from 31% to 4%. I successfully added my 750GB HD

Components I used:

1. Seagate 750GB internal SATA 3.5" HD purchased at Best Buy.
2. Firewiredirect.com SATA dual HD enclosure with fan and ventilation up front.

Ill let you guys know how things progress.

Please clarify this ..M21,

3. Does that dual drive enclosure fan blows out or in?l
Oh, Paul, this is too easy. :D :D

All cases do both. It's sort of like "what goes up, must come down." Where there's an in, there's a way, er . . an out.

How's the noise?
The fan is too loud for being in the bedroom, but I do not notice it while watching something in the home theater. I can hear it plainly when I first walk in, but when the program starts it's gone. I purchased an extra unit so that I could experiment with different, after-market fans. When I've found a quieter fan - equal to/close enough to stock in cooling - I will certainly mod that one as well.

Please clarify this ..M21,

1. Is this the very SATA drive you got?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2203982&Sku=TSD-750AS&SRCCODE=GOOGLEBASE&CMP=OTC-GOOGLEBASE


Paul

The exact HD I got is:
Best Buy 750 GB Seagate (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7909301&st=seagate+750&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1149208161406)

BTW, how do you read the % space used on the hard drive(s) again?

Paul





The exact HD I got is:
Best Buy 750 GB Seagate (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7909301&st=seagate+750&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1149208161406)

BTW, how do you read the % space used on the hard drive(s) again?

Paul

Press DVR List button. Press "B" button. Voila.

BTW, how do you read the % space used on the hard drive(s) again?

Paul


1. Click "DVR" button on the remote.
2. Press "B" (Preferences)

The % used will be displayed.

For accurate space constraints, go into diagnostics and see the differing drives and partitions and see how full each is.
To do that, read the first posts in the 8300 thread linked in my sig.
vegggas

Different system as my NYC's Time Warner cable remote does not even have a "DVR" button.
No instructions manual as to getting the % used info either.

I am beginning to hear more hard drive disk noise. I think it's getting full. No way to check. Shiiiickk

Paul




1. Click "DVR" button on the remote.
2. Press "B" (Preferences)

The % used will be displayed.

Different system as my NYC's Time Warner cable remote does not even have a "DVR" button.On my remote, it's the big green button right in the middle of the remote labeled, "LIST". If you don't have a "List" button either, then use whichever button gets you to your list of stored recordings.

Then push "B".

Try the LIST button and then "B". Dennis had it right to begin with. :)

Guys, keep in mind that when you give advice on what to do on a 8300, indicate what software runs on it. This thread covers both Passport and SARA... plus stuff can be different depending on what version you have.

riverside,

i have TWC Queens and passport 2.5.066. Do you know how to get 8300HD file capacities with that?

Paul




Guys, keep in mind that when you give advice on what to do on a 8300, indicate what software runs on it. This thread covers both Passport and SARA... plus stuff can be different depending on what version you have.

riverside,

i have TWC Queens and passport 2.5.066. Do you know how to get 8300HD file capacities with that?

Paul
Have you tried the method that works for the rest of us? Simultaneously press and hold "SELECT" and "EXIT" until you hear a ding. This may take five seconds - be patient. When you hear the ding, release the two buttons. Then press "EXIT." A channel number *should* flash on the display - remember it. You should be in DIAG now. From here you can use the up and down arrows on the box or the remote to flip through the pages.

The next time you want to access the DIAG screens, do the "SELECT" - "EXIT" - ding thing. But instead of hitting EXIT, you can input the channel number that flashed on the remote to enter DIAG.

Maybe it depends on how the cableco has things set up, because I have Passport 2.5.066, and all I have to do is enter the correct channel number to get to the DIAG screens (I never have to do the SELECT-EXIT thing).

Maybe it depends on how the cableco has things set up, because I have Passport 2.5.066, and all I have to do is enter the correct channel number to get to the DIAG screens (I never have to do the SELECT-EXIT thing).
Could be. I can't access them on mine w/o pressing SELECT & EXIT. What happens if you do press those buttons?

Using the SELECT-EXIT thing one gets into what I'd call the service menu. There are multiple screens you can access. The ones to see data on the hard drives are almost all the way at the bottom of the selection screen. The "channel number "for this is 1999, something like that w/my rev. 4 digit channels are not directly tunable

There "channel tunable" screen, but it's a single screen. 996 works for me, not sure if it's version specific, my guess would be Passport specific rather than Passport version specific. The single screen there lists version number... plus a few other things that only a real tech may understand

Using the SELECT-EXIT thing one gets into what I'd call the service menu. There are multiple screens you can access. The ones to see data on the hard drives are almost all the way at the bottom of the selection screen. The "channel number "for this is 1999, something like that w/my rev. 4 digit channels are not directly tunable

There "channel tunable" screen, but it's a single screen. 996 works for me, not sure if it's version specific, my guess would be Passport specific rather than Passport version specific. The single screen there lists version number... plus a few other things that only a real tech may understand
The "channel" number used to access the full DIAG may vary from location to location because the 611 that gets me in to DIAG may be used as a TV channel on another system.

Using the SELECT-EXIT thing one gets into what I'd call the service menu. There are multiple screens you can access. The ones to see data on the hard drives are almost all the way at the bottom of the selection screen. The "channel number "for this is 1999, something like that w/my rev. 4 digit channels are not directly tunable

There "channel tunable" screen, but it's a single screen. 996 works for me, not sure if it's version specific, my guess would be Passport specific rather than Passport version specific. The single screen there lists version number... plus a few other things that only a real tech may understand
Entering 611 gets me into all of the screens that you're calling the service menu without using SELECT-EXIT. If I do press SELECT-EXIT, the display says "diag", and if I then press EXIT, it takes me to channel 611.

Just bought a WD500 at Circuit City (great Labor Day price $160, no rebates required). Since my SA8300 has a WD drive in it, I assume this will be most compatable. Now I need a box. Is this "all" I need:

http://www.etech4sale.com/hardware/partinfo-id-148728.html

I see many folks here using that case, or are there better deals out there?I still prefer the Apricorn External SATA Drive Enclosure you can buy at Newegg, because it has a large fan:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817362002

I have two of them currently in service and have just bought a third. With my first two, I had to buy the SATA to eSATA cables, but with the third I just bought, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the required cable is now included! Price is around $39 + $6.94 shipping, and I got it in less than a week.

Since the external drive runs constantly, I really think you should have an enclosure with a fan. If not, I would recommend buying a Seagate drive that has a 5 yr. warranty. :)

Scarlett

Since the external drive runs constantly, I really think you should have an enclosure with a fan. If not, I would recommend buying a Seagate drive that has a 5 yr. warranty. :)
That won't solve the overheating problem though, as hard drives have operating temperature specs and their warranties are contingent upon the user of the hard disk keeping the drive within the specifications to be sure that the drive will continue to work well, and to maintain the drive's warranty status. Those who do not keep their drives cool run the risk of having their warranty claims denied.

Read 'em and weep, all you fans of fanless cases! :D

Entering 611 gets me into all of the screens that you're calling the service menu without using SELECT-EXIT. If I do press SELECT-EXIT, the display says "diag", and if I then press EXIT, it takes me to channel 611.

That's why I added what software and version number I use as my sig to go along with my location below my 'tar. 611 is the rock digital music channel here.

That won't solve the overheating problem though, as hard drives have operating temperature specs and their warranties are contingent upon the user of the hard disk keeping the drive within the specifications to be sure that the drive will continue to work well, and to maintain the drive's warranty status. Those who do not keep their drives cool run the risk of having their warranty claims denied.

Read 'em and weep, all you fans of fanless cases! :DPrecisely--and I didn't mean to imply that buying a Seagate would solve that problem (hence, the smiley face), but only that it might give them a shot at a replacement. Even Seagates in the fan-cooled Apricorn enclosures have failed, but apparently not from over-heating, and those have been replaced. I would never risk a hard drive in a fanless enclosure, regardless of the manufacturer's claims. But, that's why they have horse races! :)

Scarlett

Precisely--and I didn't mean to imply that buying a Seagate would solve that problem (hence, the smiley face), but only that it might give them a shot at a replacement.

Scarlett
:)

Success! I have TWC Houston with Sara. Got a 300 GB Seagate at FRY's for $90 and the Nexstar Vantec 3 360SU-BK enclosure at Microcenter for $40 (both on sale). Needed a 2nd soft reboot, but it is working. Thanks for all the advice here.

A BIG THANKS!

That works now. For TWC Passport 2.5.066, the channel is 1999

I see that my 8300HD has a WD 160GB drive

After 2 weeks, I have used 133.9 GB of the 146.9 GB of capacity.
I have 21 hours and 34 minutes of HD recordings
I have 2 hours and 6 minutes of SD recordings

So, I see a rough 6.3 GB per hour of HD recordings.

Is this reasonable?

Paul





Have you tried the method that works for the rest of us? Simultaneously press and hold "SELECT" and "EXIT" until you hear a ding. This may take five seconds - be patient. When you hear the ding, release the two buttons. Then press "EXIT." A channel number *should* flash on the display - remember it. You should be in DIAG now. From here you can use the up and down arrows on the box or the remote to flip through the pages.

The next time you want to access the DIAG screens, do the "SELECT" - "EXIT" - ding thing. But instead of hitting EXIT, you can input the channel number that flashed on the remote to enter DIAG.

Thanks for the SATA info guys.

A BIG THANKS!

That works now. For TWC Passport 2.5.066, the channel is 1999

I see that my 8300HD has a WD 160GB drive

After 2 weeks, I have used 133.9 GB of the 146.9 GB of capacity.
I have 21 hours and 34 minutes of HD recordings
I have 2 hours and 6 minutes of SD recordings

So, I see a rough 6.3 GB per hour of HD recordings.

Is this reasonable?

Paul
You're very welcome. I can't believe we didn't cough that info up when you originally asked. :confused: :)

I have two 8300HDs and one 8300 (non-HD). I think these are capabilities/maximums(?), but a DVR page in the SD box says:

60 mins, 6Mbps 2.5GB - It'll record at 6Mbps and consume 2.5Gb of space with an hour's recording.

The HD box says:

60 mins, 20Mbps 8.4GB - Again, one hour (of hi-def source) can be recorded at 20Mbps and will occupy 8.4GB of storage space.

If you follow this thread and others involving HD-DVRs, you will learn that nobody is encoding hi-def material at 20Mbps and therefore an hour never takes that much drive space. To determine the actual space your hi-def recordings occupy per hour you would need to know the bitrates, but it seems plausible that they are at 6.3GB per hour.

Be aware, if you're not already, that a sizable chunk of drive space is allocated for things other than recording content.

Bitrates vary by channel and oftentimes by program, so there is no definitive way to determine precisely how much space will be needed for a given recording. The 6.3 is a good average, but if a channel is using close to 20Mbps like our CBs does here, recordings will require more. Others, like our Fox, use less, so recoridngs need less. It's basically a crap-shoot.

Curious, what about obviously SD material broadcast on one of the HD channels? Logic tells me that this stuff may be converted at the network to many more pixels, so no HD space savings.

BTW, a big thanks to all here, very rarely have I seen anyone refer to disk space as "memory." I have been on the warpath about that in the computer space and feel my "efforts" over the past 20 years have made no dent.

Paul, FWIW it's 1999 on 1.8.x as well. But you DO need to give up your trick play features to add an additional hard drive; then watch you rev to hit one that restores those features (I'm guessing 2.5.070 or higher). I'm only speculating, but I think they are holding off on deploying > 1.8.112 into Manhattan until that bug IS fixed.

6.3GB is already lower than the 11.9GB per hour of HD1080i recording that current HDV camcorders in the HD world requires in term of hard drive space.

I remember when I bought my first HDTV back in 1999 and that very first Panasonic D-VHS, TWC NYC was broadcasting in 8VSB and at MUCH higher bitrates! Recordings for 2+ years with my Panasonic D-VHS and the proprietary Panasonic tuner with 1394 yield nearly flawless programs that hardly had any macroblocking, motion blurs, and flashes that we are now getting at these lower rates that is QAM256.

It may not be QAM256 but the reality of TWC and others trying to jam more content into a fixed spectrum. I really do not buy this as the broadcasting spectrum is much larger than TWC and others claim. In addition, TWC and others are much more interested in jamming more PPV choices than our rights to more HDTV channels.

Paul






You're very welcome. I can't believe we didn't cough that info up when you originally asked. :confused: :)

I have two 8300HDs and one 8300 (non-HD). I think these are capabilities/maximums(?), but a DVR page in the SD box says:

60 mins, 6Mbps 2.5GB - It'll record at 6Mbps and consume 2.5Gb of space with an hour's recording.

The HD box says:

60 mins, 20Mbps 8.4GB - Again, one hour (of hi-def source) can be recorded at 20Mbps and will occupy 8.4GB of storage space.

If you follow this thread and others involving HD-DVRs, you will learn that nobody is encoding hi-def material at 20Mbps and therefore an hour never takes that much drive space. To determine the actual space your hi-def recordings occupy per hour you would need to know the bitrates, but it seems plausible that they are at 6.3GB per hour.

Be aware, if you're not already, that a sizable chunk of drive space is allocated for things other than recording content.

riversideG,

Are you saying no fast rewinds, forwards, pauses after you add an external drive? That would s.u.c.k!

Paul




Curious, what about obviously SD material broadcast on one of the HD channels? Logic tells me that this stuff may be converted at the network to many more pixels, so no HD space savings.

BTW, a big thanks to all here, very rarely have I seen anyone refer to disk space as "memory." I have been on the warpath about that in the computer space and feel my "efforts" over the past 20 years have made no dent.

Paul, FWIW it's 1999 on 1.8.x as well. But you DO need to give up your trick play features to add an additional hard drive; then watch you rev to hit one that restores those features (I'm guessing 2.5.070 or higher). I'm only speculating, but I think they are holding off on deploying > 1.8.112 into Manhattan until that bug IS fixed.

CLick_for_320GB_Drive (http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductDetail?Sku=6333092)
Works fine with SARA v1.88.17.a100. Approximately tripled total record time. Only $220. No fan... very quiet.

8300HD needed to be rebooted before showing the additional space. Space used went from approx 91% to 29% after adding the drive.

riversideG,

Are you saying no fast rewinds, forwards, pauses after you add an external drive? That would s.u.c.k!

Paul
No fast forwards or rewinds of LIVE programming. You can still pause it, but when you resume it jumps ahead to the live signal. FF, REW and all the slo-mo stuff still works on recorded programming.

And to add to what pepar said, the FF / RW of live TV bug only exists for Passport users (as pointed out to me by davehancock earlier). You can get around this bug by:

1. Press record and choose "record this show"
2. Press List, find the current program, and choose "Play"

You then can use FF, RW, and Pause like normal since you're watching a "recording", not live TV. A little bit of a hassle, but well worth it if you need those functions for the current program.

I remember when I bought my first HDTV back in 1999 and that very first Panasonic D-VHS, TWC NYC was broadcasting in 8VSB and at MUCH higher bitrates! Recordings for 2+ years with my Panasonic D-VHS and the proprietary Panasonic tuner with 1394 yield nearly flawless programs that hardly had any macroblocking, motion blurs, and flashes that we are now getting at these lower rates that is QAM256.
8VSB is a MUCH less (like 2:1) efficent modulation method than QAM256. There is a lot of redundancy in the 8VSB method to help compensate for OTA issues like multipath correction. 8VSB on a 6MHz broadcast channel has 19.4Mbs rate (18 after considering PISP, Audio & etc stuff). QAM256 (6MHz channel) has 38.8MBps. TWC has been putting 2 HD channels and 2 SD channels in that space - so they are providing the same bitrate per HD channel as an OTA station who doesn't have subchannels.

RE: TWC NYC was broadcasting in 8VSB and at MUCH higher bitrates! is just not true! The fact that 8VSB takes twice the bandwidth at QAM - does not make for higher bitrates!

dave,

why did it seem cleaner then?

I play a 8VSB recording of Titanic and compare to last month's QAM256 broadcast and the 8VSB version on D-VHS (no less) was much sharper, less grain, and no artifacts.

Paul


8VSB is a MUCH less (like 2:1) efficent modulation method than QAM256. There is a lot of redundancy in the 8VSB method to help compensate for OTA issues like multipath correction. 8VSB on a 6MHz broadcast channel has 19.4Mbs rate (18 after considering PISP, Audio & etc stuff). QAM256 (6MHz channel) has 38.8MBps. TWC has been putting 2 HD channels and 2 SD channels in that space - so they are providing the same bitrate per HD channel as an OTA station who doesn't have subchannels.

RE: is just not true! The fact that 8VSB takes twice the bandwidth at QAM - does not make for higher bitrates!

What about adding a 2TB array of drives?

Like this one?

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202618428&adid=17070&dcaid=17070

Is there anyway?

dave,

why did it seem cleaner then?

I play a 8VSB recording of Titanic and compare to last month's QAM256 broadcast and the 8VSB version on D-VHS (no less) was much sharper, less grain, and no artifacts.

Paul

There could be lots of reasons. First, what was the Titanic really showing on? Was it a broadcast station? If so, does that station now have one or more sub-channels? And how does TW get their feed from that station?

Then how is your D-VHS connected to your TV as opposed to your 8300? Maybe you have a defective 8300, maybe you have poor cable levels. I don't know (and this is an external drive thread anyway).

The fact is that the bit rates are nominally the same on 8VSB and QAM256.

dave,

why did it seem cleaner then?

I play a 8VSB recording of Titanic and compare to last month's QAM256 broadcast and the 8VSB version on D-VHS (no less) was much sharper, less grain, and no artifacts.Seems to me it's comparing apples to oranges unless you know the bitrate of each broadcast and it also depends on what channel. In the past, StarZ has broadcast the same movies in 3 formats; 4:3, OAR, and cropped full-screen. They all looked totally different.

Just curious as to whether or not you have noticed any blocking or random pixelations with that setup. I have a 400g Seagate with the Vantec case and it works fairly well most of the time. My only complaint is the random pixelation for no apparent reason. I know alot of other users have the same complaint as well. I noticed that on CSI NY last night it was doing it and it was not even recording. It was doing it on a live TV feed, but I noticed the external drive was blinking away buffering the show.So I turned off my external to force it to use the internal drive, and the artifacts stopped. My box writes pretty much everything to the external since it is way bigger than the internal, so the internal is pretty much empty. I figure to work around this I'll just leave off my external drive until I have managed to almost fill up the internal drive and then I'll switch the external drive back on for the extra storage. I've noticed it does it much more on the HD content. It's not a deal breaker on the external drive, but sure is annoying with it does it. Has anyone else found a work around or way to stop the random pixelizations on recordings.

Thanks,

Bri

Does anyone have a solution to this problem?

I first recorded Titanic in 2000 (I kept records on every tape), it was off HBO-HD (46-1) with a Panasonic HD tuner box and the Panasonic D-VHS under said 8VSB.

The recent Titanic recording was last November, also HBO-HD with the 3250HD box's firewire into the JVC D-VHS. This time, over 5 years later on QAM256.

You have a point on tnhe difference in equipment. Perhaps that explain some. The 2000 recording was nearly grainless. The 2005 version was grainy, almost like when you enlarge ISO400 film (remember that?)

Paul



There could be lots of reasons. First, what was the Titanic really showing on? Was it a broadcast station? If so, does that station now have one or more sub-channels? And how does TW get their feed from that station?

Then how is your D-VHS connected to your TV as opposed to your 8300? Maybe you have a defective 8300, maybe you have poor cable levels. I don't know (and this is an external drive thread anyway).

The fact is that the bit rates are nominally the same on 8VSB and QAM256.

Both off HBO-HD. Both 1080i.
The only apples & oranges analogy may apply to the difference in equipment. Read my post above this one.

Paul


Seems to me it's comparing apples to oranges unless you know the bitrate of each broadcast and it also depends on what channel. In the past, StarZ has broadcast the same movies in 3 formats; 4:3, OAR, and cropped full-screen. They all looked totally different.

Both being off HBO-HD does not mean both broadcasts were from the same transfer, 5 years apart. Also, both being 1080i does not mean both broadcasts were the same bitrates. I think my apples and oranges analogy is still intact.

What about adding a 2TB array of drives?

Like this one?

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202618428&adid=17070&dcaid=17070

Is there anyway?
If you could find an array that "looks" like a single drive to the 8300HD's SATA host controller, yes. The one at the link is to attach to a network - NAS - Network Attached Storage.

You're right. Good for you.



Both being off HBO-HD does not mean both broadcasts were from the same transfer, 5 years apart. Also, both being 1080i does not mean both broadcasts were the same bitrates. I think my apples and oranges analogy is still intact.

If we could connect the eSATA into a device that can communicate with the eSATA line and pass whatever handshake needed over the network. That would be something. Imagine that it can even be wireless.

2TB, imagine not having to every add another drive.

That's over 150 HD movies!

Paul



If you could find an array that "looks" like a single drive to the 8300HD's SATA host controller, yes. The one at the link is to attach to a network - NAS - Network Attached Storage.

You're right. Good for you.Thank you!