Sorry, HotDog, I should have noted that was provided from our local AZ HDTV Forum, that is his User ID. I changed the post to reflect that.

That is what I suspected, that Zephyr was a poster, or a forum - I just needed to be sure. I will sleep much better tonight!

Regards, Dave

p.s. thanks for all your hard work, great job!!

Success! I bought a Maxtor drive and an Azio case. Everything works perfectly. No fan on this case but I didn't want one. Seems like it has good ventilation. Still pretty cool to the touch. Pretty easy set up. Highly recommended combo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817106098


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144421

Opinions on this harddrive.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148140

Opinions on this harddrive.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148140
SATA? Check.

7200RPM? Check.

16MB cache? Check.

Found this Today. Looks to good to be true.Went to manufactures website and it does include the e-sata cable. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822101028&ATT=22-101-028&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r

Found this Today. Looks to good to be true.Went to manufactures website and it does include the e-sata cable. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822101028&ATT=22-101-028&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r
It also has a USB interface; make sure there's no circuitry between the hard drive and the eSATA output. And iIf it's fanless, be concerned about heat build-up.

My SA8300HD started forgetting that it had an external HD attached last week.
I tried all the tricks to get it to see and format the hard disk. I was lucky in that I did not have much saved that I needed. I would keep getting a message that I needed to check the cables and power on the external disk. It never would ask to format, no matter what I did.
I decided that the SA8300HD might be at fault. I exchanged the old one for a new one at the local Cable Office (TW in Austin, TX).
Also decided that that I needed more storage than the 300gb I had before. So I installed a WD 500gb Sata in an Apricorn (ez bus dts) housing. Booted up everything in the proper order and it asked me to format!!! Finally things are looking up. !!Success!!

My SA8300HD started forgetting that it had an external HD attached last week. I tried all the tricks to get it to see and format the hard disk. I was lucky in that I did not have much saved that I needed. I would keep getting a message that I needed to check the cables and power on the external disk. It never would ask to format, no matter what I did.
This implies that it at one time "knew" it had a drive attached and if it did, it would have been formatted when it was first attached. Subsequent connection problems would only cause alerts to that effect and would not (usually) cause it to ask to format the drive (again).

. . I installed a WD 500gb Sata in an Apricorn (ez bus dts) housing. Booted up everything in the proper order and it asked me to format!!! Finally things are looking up. !!Success!!
Excellent!!

This is a really big thread and I've read as much of it as I can, hopefully this question has not been asked before. I went out and purchased a eSata to SATA 1 cable and a venus enclosure with fan. The external enclosure is armed with a left over 250GB SATA Western Digital Drive. The SA8300HD recognized the drive just fine and asked me to format it, which I did. I entered the diag by holding down select +exit on the unit, then after seeing diag I hit exit. I then entered the AVFS section of the diag. It reported that I had 364.6GB (764652400 sectors and 162692 clusters). I am confused by this because the default drive showed up as 160GB before the upgrade and now it shows 364.6GB. This does not add up 160+250=410GB. I know hard drive manufactures market there drives as 1000MB = 1 GB as opposed to the real number wich is 1024MB = 1GB. So even using this calculation I should see roughly 391GB as my number for total space instead of 364.6GB. Anyone know what is taking up the extra 25+ GB? It also didn't make sense to me if there is actually a 160GB drive internally why did I see that at 160GB in the diag AVFS section of diag when it was standalone.

Any input on this would be great! Thanks in advance!

Mike

This is a really big thread and I've read as much of it as I can, hopefully this question has not been asked before. I went out and purchased a eSata to SATA 1 cable and a venus enclosure with fan. The external enclosure is armed with a left over 250GB SATA Western Digital Drive. The SA8300HD recognized the drive just fine and asked me to format it, which I did. I entered the diag by holding down select +exit on the unit, then after seeing diag I hit exit. I then entered the AVFS section of the diag. It reported that I had 364.6GB (764652400 sectors and 162692 clusters). I am confused by this because the default drive showed up as 160GB before the upgrade and now it shows 364.6GB. This does not add up 160+250=410GB. I know hard drive manufactures market there drives as 1000MB = 1 GB as opposed to the real number wich is 1024MB = 1GB. So even using this calculation I should see roughly 391GB as my number for total space instead of 364.6GB. Anyone know what is taking up the extra 25+ GB? It also didn't make sense to me if there is actually a 160GB drive internally why did I see that at 160GB in the diag AVFS section of diag when it was standalone.

Any input on this would be great! Thanks in advance!

Mike
You're good to go. Not only is there shenanigans by the drive makers, there is space lost to "overhead" consumed by the 8300HD. For an apples-to-apples comparison, you would have needed to check the AVFS page for (only) the internal drive. Mine never said 160GB on that page. Are you sure yours did?

FWIW, my AVFS page says 151GB for an internal-only drive.

This is a really big thread and I've read as much of it as I can, hopefully this question has not been asked before. I went out and purchased a eSata to SATA 1 cable and a venus enclosure with fan. The external enclosure is armed with a left over 250GB SATA Western Digital Drive. The SA8300HD recognized the drive just fine and asked me to format it, which I did. I entered the diag by holding down select +exit on the unit, then after seeing diag I hit exit. I then entered the AVFS section of the diag. It reported that I had 364.6GB (764652400 sectors and 162692 clusters). I am confused by this because the default drive showed up as 160GB before the upgrade and now it shows 364.6GB. This does not add up 160+250=410GB. I know hard drive manufactures market there drives as 1000MB = 1 GB as opposed to the real number wich is 1024MB = 1GB. So even using this calculation I should see roughly 391GB as my number for total space instead of 364.6GB. Anyone know what is taking up the extra 25+ GB? It also didn't make sense to me if there is actually a 160GB drive internally why did I see that at 160GB in the diag AVFS section of diag when it was standalone.

Any input on this would be great! Thanks in advance!

Mike

If you read on youll see that hard drive size in the 8300 can be unusually reported has most to do with how the 8300 reserves space on the drives some say as much as %20 of the hard drive size

If you read on youll see that hard drive size in the 8300 can be unusually reported has most to do with how the 8300 reserves space on the drives some say as much as %20 of the hard drive size


Ok I'll bite it seems that my SA8300HD has about a .5 hour buffer which seems to equal about 4 gigabytes being that a full hour when we are talking HD is about 8.4??? gigabytes. So why does the SA8300HD take 20% overhead for nothing as it seems? If it has a .5 hour buffer for each tuner that would equal 8.4 gig (both tuners totalled) ???

Mike

Ok I'll bite it seems that my SA8300HD has about a .5 hour buffer which seems to equal about 4 gigabytes being that a full hour when we are talking HD is about 8.4??? gigabytes. So why does the SA8300HD take 20% overhead for nothing as it seems? If it has a .5 hour buffer for each tuner that would equal 8.4 gig (both tuners totalled) ???No one on this forum can say with 100% certainty exactly how the hard drive is sliced-and-diced so that you can account for every byte, so unfortunately, you're never going to get an authoritative answer to your question. However, the numbers you have reported are generally in line with what other folks have seen on their boxes, so your results are not unusual, nor are they indicative of a problem.

Bottom line is, don't sweat it. Congratulations, and enjoy your newly expanded recording capability.

No one on this forum can say with 100% certainty exactly how the hard drive is sliced-and-diced so that you can account for every byte,
A few can and have done so several times. But I don't blame them if they do not re-repeat themselves. "Searching" is good for the soul.

AFAIK, the buffers are an hour each, but they reset when a new program starts. Therefore, if you watch a lot of sitcoms, they will look like only a half hour.

Best not to think of any programming when thinking about the buffer (it has nothing to do with programs starting or stopping). It will buffer up to an hour when continuously tuned to the same channel. ANY time you switch a channel, the buffer clears and the new channel starts being buffered.

Here's a trick... you're watching a football game, you're more than an hour into it. You get called away, you know it's going to be more than an hour. If you hit record, the one hour buffer you've already watched will be a part of the recording. So switch to another channel, the back. Then hit record. It will only record from when you switched back because THAT it what the buffer NOW holds.

Ok I'll bite it seems that my SA8300HD has about a .5 hour buffer which seems to equal about 4 gigabytes being that a full hour when we are talking HD is about 8.4??? gigabytes. So why does the SA8300HD take 20% overhead for nothing as it seems? If it has a .5 hour buffer for each tuner that would equal 8.4 gig (both tuners totalled) ???

Mike

Note that because of "rate shaping", no hour of HD recording will be anywhere near 8.4 GB. In my 8300, one hour of SD recording takes up about a 1.5 - 2 GB footprint and each hour of HD recording takes up about 5.5 - 6 GB. Those are the figures I use to gauge how much recording time I have left on the HDD (including about 20 GB for the buffers and general "overhead") and it's proven to be remarkably accurate. The buffers each record one hour, not a half-hour, of "live" TV.

Ok I'll bite it seems that my SA8300HD has about a .5 hour buffer which seems to equal about 4 gigabytes being that a full hour when we are talking HD is about 8.4??? gigabytes. So why does the SA8300HD take 20% overhead for nothing as it seems? If it has a .5 hour buffer for each tuner that would equal 8.4 gig (both tuners totalled) ???

Mike

I have know idea why it is what it is i just rember that my 160 gig internal drive shows as 148gig and my 250 gig external shows up as 218gig just seems to be scientific atlanta magic.

I have know idea why it is what it is i just rember that my 160 gig internal drive shows as 148gig and my 250 gig external shows up as 218gig just seems to be scientific atlanta magic.
Cluster overhang. :D

Bottom line is, don't sweat it. Congratulations, and enjoy your newly expanded recording capability.

Yup i was just happy when i saw drive 1 and then drive 2 which of course was not there before hooking up the sata drive.

Cluster overhang. :D

Hey pepar :

Cluster overhang :D :D LOL I usually follow "cluster" with a 4 letter word especially after i fried my 2 WD 250gig drives. But the good news is WD sent my replacement yesterday and Apricorn agreed to swap my enclosure but are backordered till "tommorrow".

Now my question I had both units plugged into a surge protector do u think its possible the 8300 sent a current over the sata line which burnt my drives or is it more likely the power supply on the Apricorn did it? ( i will pick up a UPS before setting this all up for the 3rd time ) Just throw me any ideas that you could fathom.
( remember both drives dead no spin up upon power up.) :cool:

[QUOTE=pepar]This implies that it at one time "knew" it had a drive attached and if it did, it would have been formatted when it was first attached. Subsequent connection problems would only cause alerts to that effect and would not (usually) cause it to ask to format the drive (again).


Yes, it worked well for over a year. Then it just forgot it had a HD attached. I could not access the files on the external HD, even though they were listed on the LIST. I tried many reconnects using the recommened procedure. I finally removed the HD, formated it on my computer, then reconnected it, which should have forced a format. No Joy!
Installed a different HD which should have forced a format. No Joy!
Formated the internal HD and then attached the external HD. No Joy!

During all this the SA8300HD worked fine in all other respects. Only problem was it would not see the external HD.

My suggestion to others that are having problems getting the SA8300HD to see the external HD is to consider exchanging their current SA8300HD for a new one at their local cable office, if that is an option for them.

At least it worked for me.

Now my question I had both units plugged into a surge protector do u think its possible the 8300 sent a current over the sata line which burnt my drives or is it more likely the power supply on the Apricorn did it? ( i will pick up a UPS before setting this all up for the 3rd time ) Just throw me any ideas that you could fathom.
( remember both drives dead no spin up upon power up.) :cool:
My guess in order of likelihood:

1. PS in Apricorn

2. 8300HD

3. Ghosts in the machine

:D

My guess in order of likelihood:

1. PS in Apricorn

2. 8300HD

3. Ghosts in the machine

:D

Ah i forgot the ghost in machines thing or more likely my wife recorded a ghost....something show and it never fully deleted. The 8300hd was "brand new" when i added the ext drive i had just exchanged it for a fire wire model (that never panned out) :D

Anyone in this thread get an external HD working on TWC in the Austin area? My box refuses to recognize the external HD hooked up to the eSATA port in the back (I have SARA version 1.88.17.a100). I called tech support and the guy was pretty clueless, but did say it says in some guide he has that the SATA port is "output only". Hopefully this doesn't mean the port is disabled?

Anyone in this thread get an external HD working on TWC in the Austin area? My box refuses to recognize the external HD hooked up to the eSATA port in the back (I have SARA version 1.88.17.a100). I called tech support and the guy was pretty clueless, but did say it says in some guide he has that the SATA port is "output only". Hopefully this doesn't mean the port is disabled?
It only means he is clueless.

It only means he is clueless.
Any tips on what to do if the DVR doesn't recognize the external drive, then?

Any tips on what to do if the DVR doesn't recognize the external drive, then?
Right-o!

I am a Passport user, but many things are basic and common to all 8300HDs. The simple stuff first: Is this something that you assembled or "off-the-shelf?" If self-built, are all of the internal connections made correctly and solidly? Does the drive spin - listen and touch - when power is applied?

Next is attaching: With the 8300HD turned on and the external drive powered up as well, plug the eSATA cable into the drve enclosure and then the 8300HD. This is where the 8300HD should acknowledge the drive and offer to format it.

Cluster overhang. :D

Which most folks think of as a cluster frak from the manufacturers!

Oh, shop4tech (where one can buy a eSATA box to house a HD for external use) has a 10% off coupon (GC10) AND a $10 off $30 purchase if you buy through "Google Checkout." The following box:

http://www.shop4tech.com/item5165.html

should then become around 27 bucks, free shipping.

Oh, shop4tech (where one can buy a eSATA box to house a HD for external use) has a 10% off coupon (GC10) AND a $10 off $30 purchase if you buy through "Google Checkout." The following box:

http://www.shop4tech.com/item5165.html

should then become around 27 bucks, free shipping.
Great price, and it seems like a nice fit for the 8300HD but the question still comes down to this: is a fanless enclosure satisfactory? Has anyone definitively answered this question yet?

Great price, and it seems like a nice fit for the 8300HD but the question still comes down to this: is a fanless enclosure satisfactory? Has anyone definitively answered this question yet?
Well, I"VE answered it definitively. :D

I would never use a case without a fan. Heat shortens component life - we have data stored on our drives that we'd prefer to not lose - why take a chance?

sweet!, thought there's no hack forum for my dvr like here. but now im here! i also own a 8300hd from timewarner. i found out there's 1 usb + 1 sata inputs on my dvr, so the first thing came to my mine is: could this be hackable? i know this thread already clears up working versions of hdd that allow the dvr to expand the storage capacity. that's a good rep. but my question now is: how to extract the contents from the hdd (specially hdtv video files) to the pc for video editing? anybody can help me here how to get started?! i learn fast, been on ps2, xbox, x360, l7 moto hacking. thanks!

sweet!, thought there's no hack forum for my dvr like here. but now im here! i also own a 8300hd from timewarner. i found out there's 1 usb + 1 sata inputs on my dvr, so the first thing came to my mine is: could this be hackable? i know this thread already clears up working versions of hdd that allow the dvr to expand the storage capacity. that's a good rep. but my question now is: how to extract the contents from the hdd (specially hdtv video files) to the pc for video editing? anybody can help me here how to get started?! i learn fast, been on ps2, xbox, x360, l7 moto hacking. thanks!
Yes, indeed! You've come to the right place!

Yes, indeed! You've come to the right place!

cool. is there a thread here that discuss bout extracting hdd contents for video editing?

sorry newb here, it's my day 1! :cool:

Yes, indeed! You've come to the right place!
I too am newb on this forum but I did take the time to read through a great deal of this 90 page thread, so props to your reply with the saw pic :cool:

Anyway, I just ordered my sata setup today (320 GB Western Digital with Rosewill RX353-S enclosure). Can't wait for it to get here, I'll post success/failure once it comes in.

I'm on Passport in Cincinnati, anybody heard anything new about the trick play bug? Is there any place to track progress of a fix? or to send concerns to?

Thanks to all for this thread, its awesome.

Cheers to nortchuck and jeers to Dakomo. Sorry, I calls 'em as I sees 'em. ;)

nortchuck: There is nothing new on the trick play bug which some of us do not consider a bug as SATA support is not official. What is your Passport version?

nortchuck: There is nothing new on the trick play bug which some of us do not consider a bug as SATA support is not official. What is your Passport version?

yeah guess its not really a bug :) I'll have to check my Passport version when I get home don't know it off the top of my head.

With regard to the trick-play "bug", I guess that's a matter of semantics. It doesn't work like it's supposed to (or, how the SARA version works), no matter how you slice it.

At any rate, the only people that can address it are the folks at Aptiv (or however you spell the name of the company that bought the Pioneer software division that writes the Passport software).

If the problem is, as I suspect, the formatting process not creating permanent buffers on the expansion drive like the ones created on the internal drive, then it would be a ridiculously easy problem to fix. What I'm most surprised about, shocked really considering this has been a "documented bug" for months now, is that nobody here using this feature has attempted to contact Aptiv and ask them about it. Only they can provide a remedy; not the cable company, and not Scientific Atlanta. It's not like AVSer's to be so timid about finding a solution to a problem that should be so easy to fix. ;)

. . . trick-play "bug" . . . It doesn't work like it's supposed to . . . has been a "documented bug" for months now . . .
Nope, not gonna to touch it . . . :rolleyes:

nortchuck: There is nothing new on the trick play bug which some of us do not consider a bug as SATA support is not official. What is your Passport version?

Just checked my Passport version, its 2.5.066 (OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.74.1sp)

. . . trick-play "bug" . . . It doesn't work like it's supposed to . . . has been a "documented bug" for months now . . .

I'm willing to give it a whirl, can't hurt right...

Just checked my Passport version, its 2.5.066 (OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.74.1sp) I'm willing to give it a whirl, can't hurt right...
You should be OK. If you didn't read the posts with instructions for attaching and formatting, click on the link in my sig and navigate to the last page.

You should be OK. If you didn't read the posts with instructions for attaching and formatting, click on the link in my sig and navigate to the last page.

Yep, already read all the instructions (and checked out your site, that HTPC looks nice).

Can't wait to get my hardware. NewEgg shipped today!

I am a Passport user, but many things are basic and common to all 8300HDs. The simple stuff first: Is this something that you assembled or "off-the-shelf?" If self-built, are all of the internal connections made correctly and solidly? Does the drive spin - listen and touch - when power is applied?

Next is attaching: With the 8300HD turned on and the external drive powered up as well, plug the eSATA cable into the drve enclosure and then the 8300HD. This is where the 8300HD should acknowledge the drive and offer to format it.pepar, I've been out of town and not able to promptly respond to your post - but I am quite surprised at your recomendation (that I've highlighted).

A common instruction from day one of this thread has been to MAKE ALL CONNECTIONS WITH THE 8300 UNPLUGGED FROM POWER! The SA documentation (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf) states the following:
1. Make sure that both the 8300HD and the external SATA drive are unplugged from power.
2. Connect the data cable for the SATA drive to the 8300HD.
3. Plug in the power to the external SATA drive.
4. Plug in the 8300HD power cord, ad then turn on the 8300HD.
5. Follow the on-screen instructions. One of the following occurs:
* If it is a new drive or one used on another device, you will be asked to format it.
* If the drive is formatted and will work with this 8300HD, you will get a confirmation that the drive is working.
Now I know that you have Passport, and perhaps your procedure works for that, but you really shouldn't state that the procedure that you stated is "basic and common to all 8300HDs" when it is opposite of what is recommended and is commonly accepted to work.

pepar, I've been out of town and not able to promptly respond to your post - but I am quite surprised at your recomendation (that I've highlighted).

A common instruction from day one of this thread has been to MAKE ALL CONNECTIONS WITH THE 8300 UNPLUGGED FROM POWER! The SA documentation (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf) states the following:

Now I know that you have Passport, and perhaps your procedure works for that, but you really shouldn't state that the procedure that you stated is "basic and common to all 8300HDs" when it is opposite of what is recommended and is commonly accepted to work.
That's a good point, Dave. While I was "speaking" to a Passport user, and the "common and basic" referred to the first paragraph points of verifying internal connections and drive rotation when powered up, non-Passport users could be confused.

I find it curious that the only way for a Passport box to accept an external drive is exactly opposite to that of a SARA box.

edit: I have edited my sig to show my instructions are for Passport 8300HDs

Nope, not gonna to touch it . . . :rolleyes:
Recent (and happy) Passport external SATA drive user here.....

And I'm wondering if anyone's figured out under what situations my "trick play" buffer starts working correctly again?

After having my external drive active for about a week, the "trick play buffer" magically and unexpectedly reappered last night, only to disappear again this morning.

I have to guess is has something to do with how full the external drive is, since I've been slowly filling it up.

Has anyone had any luck figuring out what the situation is that makes it re-appear again?

Maybe only when it's recording a program to the internal drive? Or when I'm watching something on the internal drive?

Scott

Recent (and happy) Passport external SATA drive user here.....

And I'm wondering if anyone's figured out under what situations my "trick play" buffer starts working correctly again?

After having my external drive active for about a week, the "trick play buffer" magically and unexpectedly reappered last night, only to disappear again this morning.

I have to guess is has something to do with how full the external drive is, since I've been slowly filling it up.

Has anyone had any luck figuring out what the situation is that makes it re-appear again?

Maybe only when it's recording a program to the internal drive? Or when I'm watching something on the internal drive?

Scott
Just recently my live TV pause/rewind/slow forward returned. I rarely used it before, but I happened to tune through a Scarlett Johannson love scene and reflexively hit rewind and, to my surprise (and delight), it worked. At the time my internal drive had more space than my external, and that's what is theorized causes it to return.

I just got going with the Seagate/Azio combo from Newegg. I'm on SARA. I get a few glitches in a show but nothing too bad. It was much easier than expanding the DTiVo!

David

Just recently my live TV pause/rewind/slow forward returned. I rarely used it before, but I happened to tune through a Scarlett Johannson love scene and reflexively hit rewind and, to my surprise (and delight), it worked. At the time my internal drive had more space than my external, and that's what is theorized causes it to return.
I guess it's possible that this was the case, but frankly, I haven't cleared much of anything from my internal drive (which was maxed out when I installed the external drive).

I think that there was a tiny bit of free space on the internal drive, and I wonder if it decided that something short that I was recording could fit on there. Then I might theorize that when it's recording something on the internal drive, it un-confuses itself regarding the buffer, and it starts working again, but maybe the next time is records something on the external drive that it loses the buffer again?

The interesting thing in my case is that the buffer remained working until I changed the channel (or powered the unit down? or started recording something else [which I did]? -- not sure?).

Hmm....The plot thickens.....

Just got my Western Digitial/Rosewill combo from new egg ($123 after shipping). 320GB working perfectly. haven't recorded to it yet, but i don't forsee any problems as it was recognized and formatted fine.

Woohoo!

I just got my drive connected to my 8300HD using a 500GB Seagate Internal SATA drive and a Coolmax enclosure. I get pretty much excellent picture, just as good as the DVR would record, only I seem to notice that the picture has a few more "hiccups" than it did before the addition. It's not really anything major, just slight image distortion for not even half a second, but it does happen quite a few times throughout the recording. It's not just the playback that's flawed, as soon as I hit the record button, the signal of the live show just doesn't play as clean as I remembered it before the drive addition. Is this a common thing I'm dealing with here? I suppose it's not such a big deal and a small price to pay for so much extra storage, but does anyone else experience this? Also, the drive itself makes some very quiet noise, kind of lick a clicking. It's not constant, as it does shut up eventually. It seems to start up and stop at random. It is very faint and can really only be noticed with my TV off or muted, but it's definitely louder than any noise my DVR or TV ever made. Any help here is really appreciated. I'm lovin all the extra space but could do without the image screw ups.

I just got my drive connected to my 8300HD using a 500GB Seagate Internal SATA drive and a Coolmax enclosure. I get pretty much excellent picture, just as good as the DVR would record, only I seem to notice that the picture has a few more "hiccups" than it did before the addition. It's not really anything major, just slight image distortion for not even half a second, but it does happen quite a few times throughout the recording. It's not just the playback that's flawed, as soon as I hit the record button, the signal of the live show just doesn't play as clean as I remembered it before the drive addition. Is this a common thing I'm dealing with here? I suppose it's not such a big deal and a small price to pay for so much extra storage, but does anyone else experience this? Also, the drive itself makes some very quiet noise, kind of lick a clicking. It's not constant, as it does shut up eventually. It seems to start up and stop at random. It is very faint and can really only be noticed with my TV off or muted, but it's definitely louder than any noise my DVR or TV ever made. Any help here is really appreciated. I'm lovin all the extra space but could do without the image screw ups.
There should be no difference between the live program and the recorded program. What you are seeing after hitting record is actually no longer live, but is also a "recording" that is being played back seconds after it was recorded. In either case, no gltches should be introduced by the DVR. Occasional glitches in the live stream are normal and, of course, they would appear in a recording of that program as well. But if you are not experiencing problems live and you are on a majority of your recorded content, then something is wrong.

Passport or SARA?

I just got my drive connected to my 8300HD using a 500GB Seagate Internal SATA drive and a Coolmax enclosure. I get pretty much excellent picture, just as good as the DVR would record, only I seem to notice that the picture has a few more "hiccups" than it did before the addition. It's not really anything major, just slight image distortion for not even half a second, but it does happen quite a few times throughout the recording. It's not just the playback that's flawed, as soon as I hit the record button, the signal of the live show just doesn't play as clean as I remembered it before the drive addition. Is this a common thing I'm dealing with here? I suppose it's not such a big deal and a small price to pay for so much extra storage, but does anyone else experience this? Also, the drive itself makes some very quiet noise, kind of lick a clicking. It's not constant, as it does shut up eventually. It seems to start up and stop at random. It is very faint and can really only be noticed with my TV off or muted, but it's definitely louder than any noise my DVR or TV ever made. Any help here is really appreciated. I'm lovin all the extra space but could do without the image screw ups.
Hmmm....since hooking up my external drive, I've not seen a rise in the number of "hiccups" or skips or anything. In fact, on my system (Passport), the skipping seems to be quite a bit reduced from what I'd previously seen on the internal drive.

Could the sound you're hearing be related to a fan on the drive turning on/off?

Just recently my live TV pause/rewind/slow forward returned. I rarely used it before, but I happened to tune through a Scarlett Johannson love scene and reflexively hit rewind and, to my surprise (and delight), it worked. At the time my internal drive had more space than my external, and that's what is theorized causes it to return.
Over the last couple of days, with my external drive filling towards capacity, I've been watching my trick play buffer appear and disappear seemingly at random. It won't be working, and then like magic, it'll be back again. It's very odd....

I'm starting to suspect that the buffer appears or disappears depending on whether the program that I'm currently recording is going on the internal or external drive. If I'm recording something to the internal drive, the buffer returns and stays available until I record something to the external drive, whereupon it disappears again.

Does this sound plausible?

Can anyone test?

There should be no difference between the live program and the recorded program. What you are seeing after hitting record is actually no longer live, but is also a "recording" that is being played back seconds after it was recorded. In either case, no gltches should be introduced by the DVR. Occasional glitches in the live stream are normal and, of course, they would appear in a recording of that program as well. But if you are not experiencing problems live and you are on a majority of your recorded content, then something is wrong.

Passport or SARA?
My STB uses SARA. I just find it too coincidental that I'm noticing all these glitches in the picture AFTER hooking up the SATA drive. In fact, just to test it, I was watching The Simpsons on the FOX HD channel, which was playing perfectly. To put my theory to the test, about halfway through the show, I pushed record. I did soon notice those "hiccups" after pushing the record button, which I did not notice before recording. I would understand that if only during the PLAYBACK of the recording it had image distortion. If this was the case, I would come to the conclusion that the SATA drive was the problem. But since the image distortion actually occurs DURING the recording, I'm confused as to whether the SATA drive can have any effect on a live broadcast.

Hmmm....since hooking up my external drive, I've not seen a rise in the number of "hiccups" or skips or anything. In fact, on my system (Passport), the skipping seems to be quite a bit reduced from what I'd previously seen on the internal drive.
It'll be interesting to see if the hiccups return when the external drive is full enough to have the recording shift to the internal drive. If it does that, then there's a problem with the internal drive. Come to think of it, you might want to try to get a new box before you build up any irreplaceable content on the external drive.

Could the sound you're hearing be related to a fan on the drive turning on/off?
I just took his description to mean he was hearing the read/write head flitting around the platter - very sensitive hearing!

My STB uses SARA. I just find it too coincidental that I'm noticing all these glitches in the picture AFTER hooking up the SATA drive. In fact, just to test it, I was watching The Simpsons on the FOX HD channel, which was playing perfectly. To put my theory to the test, about halfway through the show, I pushed record. I did soon notice those "hiccups" after pushing the record button, which I did not notice before recording. I would understand that if only during the PLAYBACK of the recording it had image distortion. If this was the case, I would come to the conclusion that the SATA drive was the problem. But since the image distortion actually occurs DURING the recording, I'm confused as to whether the SATA drive can have any effect on a live broadcast.
Well, cuzzin, SARA users seem to be afflicted with random and limited mis-matching of drives and 8300HDs. What works perfectly for one group of people causes the behavior you're eperiencing with the same drive for someone else. Somebody here, I think, was trying to analyze for some sort of pattern in this but I don't remember seeing any conclusions drawn. Based on that, my advice would be to buy another drive from a different manufacturer.

Well, cuzzin, SARA users seem to be afflicted with random and limited mis-matching of drives and 8300HDs. What works perfectly for one group of people causes the behavior you're eperiencing with the same drive for someone else. Somebody here, I think, was trying to analyze for some sort of pattern in this but I don't remember seeing any conclusions drawn. Based on that, my advice would be to buy another drive from a different manufacturer.
Would I really need to buy another drive and enclosure or just one or the other?

Would I really need to buy another drive and enclosure or just one or the other?
Sorry. As long as you're sure that the internal cables are not the problem including connections to the drive, swap drives only. To perhaps less expensively verify this is the cause, do you have any other SATA drives that you could try?

Sorry. As long as you're sure that the internal cables are not the problem including connections to the drive, swap drives only. To perhaps less expensively verify this is the cause, do you have any other SATA drives that you could try?
No I don't. Well like I said this isn't a HUGE problem. The image hiccups are few and far between and they only appear for not even a second. I might be able to just learn to tolerate this. I don't know if I want to fork up another $200 plus for another drive.

No I don't. Well like I said this isn't a HUGE problem. The image hiccups are few and far between and they only appear for not even a second. I might be able to just learn to tolerate this. I don't know if I want to fork up another $200 plus for another drive.
:cool:

Over the last couple of days, with my external drive filling towards capacity, I've been watching my trick play buffer appear and disappear seemingly at random. It won't be working, and then like magic, it'll be back again. It's very odd....

I'm starting to suspect that the buffer appears or disappears depending on whether the program that I'm currently recording is going on the internal or external drive. If I'm recording something to the internal drive, the buffer returns and stays available until I record something to the external drive, whereupon it disappears again.

Does this sound plausible?

Can anyone test?Yes, it is very plausible - even likely. This has been discussed before and whenever a program is recorded on the internal drive, the "trick play buffer" will work - for that program.

Well, cuzzin, SARA users seem to be afflicted with random and limited mis-matching of drives and 8300HDs. What works perfectly for one group of people causes the behavior you're eperiencing with the same drive for someone else. Somebody here, I think, was trying to analyze for some sort of pattern in this but I don't remember seeing any conclusions drawn. Based on that, my advice would be to buy another drive from a different manufacturer.
Pepar, I don't think that the mis-matching of drives and 8300HD's is limited to SARA users. It's just that most of the posts till lately have only been from SARA users. Some people seemed to think that if your 8300 had a WD internal drive then you would have better results with a WD external drive. That was a feeling, and I think you are right - there never was any firm conclusion.

Pepar, I don't think that the mis-matching of drives and 8300HD's is limited to SARA users. It's just that most of the posts till lately have only been from SARA users. Some people seemed to think that if your 8300 had a WD internal drive then you would have better results with a WD external drive. That was a feeling, and I think you are right - there never was any firm conclusion.
Un-scientific as my "recollection" is, if a Passport-ian has been able to get the drive recognized and formatted, it has worked without causing glitches/dropouts. Whereas an unlucky few SARA-ites go through those two steps successfully and then go on to be afflicted by audio & video dropouts and pixelization.

That's possibly true, but I think more SARA users have been experimenting with larger (>400G) drives and that might be some of the problem. It's also true though that folks using the same drive/enclosure can have difference experiences and that may be attributable to the relatively large number of SARA software versions being used. At last count, there seemed to be 8 or so different flavors of SARA out there. It's hard to spot a trend when folks don't provide enough info; software type/version, specific hardware (Drive/Enclosure), etc. Many just say they received a Seagate drive and Vantec enclosure without thinking that most suppliers market different models of everything. For example, a 500G drive might be 5400 or 7200 rpm and without such detail, trends are hard to see.

Yes, it is very plausible - even likely. This has been discussed before and whenever a program is recorded on the internal drive, the "trick play buffer" will work - for that program.
Actually, this is not at all what I'm referring to.

I'm not talking about the buffer working for programs that I'm recording -- I'm talking about the buffer coming back on both tuners, exactly the way it was before I installed the drive.

I suspect that while I'm recording something, and it's going to the internal drive, both buffers work. And then after I record something on the internal drive (even after I change channels), both buffers continue to spool -- until I record something on the external drive....

Un-scientific as my "recollection" is, if a Passport-ian has been able to get the drive recognized and formatted, it has worked without causing glitches/dropouts. Whereas an unlucky few SARA-ites go through those two steps successfully and then go on to be afflicted by audio & video dropouts and pixelization.
pepar, I have Passport, and was able to format a WD 320GB drive, but had to return it after I started to experience the problems you describe. I switched to a Maxtor 300GB drive, and it has worked great (in fact I have 2 DVRs, and have added the Maxtor drive to both with no problems).

pepar, I have Passport, and was able to format a WD 320GB drive, but had to return it after I started to experience the problems you describe. I switched to a Maxtor 300GB drive, and it has worked great (in fact I have 2 DVRs, and have added the Maxtor drive to both with no problems).
This could have been a SARA-like problem, or perhaps something was actually wrong with the drive. Your data point is noted. Thanks.

Can I use this item
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817106097
along with an internal SATA drive to expand my SA8300HD?

Is there anything else at all I'd need other than those 2 items?

Thanks!

Can I use this item
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817106097
along with an internal SATA drive to expand my SA8300HD?

Is there anything else at all I'd need other than those 2 items?

Thanks!
This would work, but I would recommend finding an enclosure with a built-in fan. I bought a Rosewill enclosure from newegg and it's similarly priced and has a built-in fan.

Scott

This would work, but I would recommend finding an enclosure with a built-in fan. I bought a Rosewill enclosure from newegg and it's similarly priced and has a built-in fan.

Scott

I too am using a Rosewill enclosure with a built in fan. It runs relatively quiet and keeps the drive nice and cool.

Newegg has good combo deals going on right now.

Check out: Rosewill Combos (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductComboList.asp?ItemNo=N82E16817173041&Subcategory=92&PageSize=10&SortField=0&Page=1)

I bought the 320GB Western Digital, its running well with Passport.

Just got my Western Digitial/Rosewill combo from new egg ($123 after shipping). 320GB working perfectly. haven't recorded to it yet, but i don't forsee any problems as it was recognized and formatted fine.
If you've read this thread then it is clear that just because the box recognizes and formats the drive correctly does not mean there will not be any problems. I really don't see how you can say it is "working perfectly" when you haven't recorded anything.

Now that it is days later, have you successfully recorded and watched programs with no freezes or skips?

Also do you know the manufacturer of the internal drive on the 8300HD?

I'm contemplating ordering a WD drive because two Maxtors have been problematic on my box...

Can I use this item
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817106097
along with an internal SATA drive to expand my SA8300HD?

Is there anything else at all I'd need other than those 2 items?

Thanks!


I used the black version of this case. Works very well. I've built many computers - and external drives. You don't really need a fan. As long as the case is well designed you don't need it.

If you've read this thread then it is clear that just because the box recognizes and formats the drive correctly does not mean there will not be any problems. I really don't see how you can say it is "working perfectly" when you haven't recorded anything.

Now that it is days later, have you successfully recorded and watched programs with no freezes or skips?
The CW on SARA has yet to be shown as relevant to Passport, nortchuck's system. With one possible exception, Passporters have a working rig once it has been "seen" and formatted.

Now that it is days later, have you successfully recorded and watched programs with no freezes or skips?
I have recorded to and played back from the external now. I have not had any glitches at all (minus of course the trick play problem).


Also do you know the manufacturer of the internal drive on the 8300HD?


Don't know, I can check when I get home and let you know.

I used the black version of this case. Works very well. I've built many computers - and external drives. You don't really need a fan. As long as the case is well designed you don't need it.

Even though you don't need a fan, the fact that you can get a case with one for the same price seems to make sense. No point in risking overheating if you can easily avoid the problem with a fan. Just my two cents....

I used the black version of this case. Works very well. I've built many computers - and external drives. You don't really need a fan. As long as the case is well designed you don't need it.
All due respect, but how do you KNOW a fan isn't needed? Have you done long term MTBF tests with and without a fan?

Fact: Heat shorten component life. Fact: We have data on our drives that we'd prefer not to lose. Why take a chance?

I too am using a Rosewill enclosure with a built in fan. It runs relatively quiet and keeps the drive nice and cool.

Newegg has good combo deals going on right now.

Check out: Rosewill Combos (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductComboList.asp?ItemNo=N82E16817173041&Subcategory=92&PageSize=10&SortField=0&Page=1)

I bought the 320GB Western Digital, its running well with Passport.
I bought a similar combo -- except I went for the Seagate Barracuda, and it's been working flawlessly.

Heat shorten component life. We have data on our drives that we'd prefer not to lose. Why take a chance?
...not to mention, it increases the chance of read/write errors. Drives have a specific operating temperature range that they work best in. I know that where my cable box is situated, it does not get much ventilation at all, so I'm sure that the fan helps.

I'm sure that the fan helps.
Of course it does. Fanless fans are whistling in the dark. :)

Has anybody looked ahead into November's CineMAX schedule? All - ALL - Star Wars episodes will be showing! WOOO HOOO!

All due respect, but how do you KNOW a fan isn't needed? Have you done long term MTBF tests with and without a fan?

Fact: Heat shorten component life. Fact: We have data on our drives that we'd prefer not to lose. Why take a chance?

From Maxtor's website

It is important not to obstruct the front or rear panels of the QuickView Expander drive. The QuickView Expander drive comes equipped with front air vents and a thermostatically controlled rear fan. The fan operates when a predetermined drive temperature is reached. You should only hear the fan running occasionally, or you may never hear it running at all. If you hear the fan running constantly you will want to reduce the ambient (surrounding) air temperature in and around the components in your entertainment center. Some components will have vent holes in the tops and sides allowing heat to escape. Do not stack the QuickView Expander drive on top of, or block the vent holes of other components in your entertainment center.

Ambient temperature is much more important than a fan. You only need af an if you are not going to let the enclosure be in an environment that will let it dissapate its heat.

Yes I have real working knowledge of using these types of enclosures. I have never had a hard drive that failed in a fanless enclosure. A free standing enclosure will keep your Hard drive cooler than one in a computer. Have you ever touched a hard drive in a computer. You'll be surprise how hot that is. The fan might make you feel better but you don't really need it.

The fan might make you feel better but you don't really need it.
Thanks. And the fact that the external drive is "on" 24/7/365 doesn't change your opinion? In the computer world, only servers see this kind of duty.

Thanks. And the fact that the external drive is "on" 24/7/365 doesn't change your opinion? In the computer world, only servers see this kind of duty.


As long as the enclosure is in a nice open space, no I'm not worried.

I'm not even sure if the 8300HD itself has a fan.

As long as the enclosure is in a nice open space, no I'm not worried.

I'm not even sure if the 8300HD itself has a fan.
Not sure myself. Maybe no. FWIW, a recent Passport version added "Power Manager" with a setting to spin down the internal drive when the box is off. When asked why that was added, my cableco contact said "to reduce the incidence of (internal) drive failure." You and I are of two opposing opinions on fans for our external enclosures.

Not sure myself. Maybe no. FWIW, a recent Passport version added "Power Manager" with a setting to spin down the internal drive when the box is off. When asked why that was added, my cableco contact said "to reduce the incidence of (internal) drive failure." You and I are of two opposing opinions on fans for our external enclosures.


Well if the 8300HD doesn't have a fan you have more worries there than the external HD. The 8300HD houses a lot more components than just the Hard drive so it's a lot hotter in there than the Azio enclosure I'm using.

Well if the 8300HD doesn't have a fan you have more worries there than the external HD. The 8300HD houses a lot more components than just the Hard drive so it's a lot hotter in there than the Azio enclosure I'm using.
My 8300HD is mostly OFF and the internal drive along with it. My external drive is NEVER off.

Thanks. And the fact that the external drive is "on" 24/7/365 doesn't change your opinion? In the computer world, only servers see this kind of duty.
...which is why I always set both of my tuners to VOD channels when I power down. This keeps the hard drive from 24/7/365 read/write buffering. It may be on, powered up, and even "spinning", but at least it's not doing anything during that period. The drive sucks more power when doing read/write operations, which generates more heat.

My 8300HD is mostly OFF and the internal drive along with it. My external drive is NEVER off.
Believe it or not, the drive is still running when your 8300HD is off (unless it's unplugged). This is why, if you have a channel set (and your trick play buffer is working -- no SATA drive hooked up), you can turn the box on and whatever channel you were tuned to will often have an hours' worth of buffer space already there. Unless you're tuned to a VOD channel (or other "unrecordable" channel), the box continues to read/write to the hard drive 24/7/365, whether the box is on/off.

I believe that all the power button really does is disable the video outputs.

...which is why I always set both of my tuners to VOD channels when I power down. This keeps the hard drive from 24/7/365 read/write buffering. It may be on, powered up, and even "spinning", but at least it's not doing anything during that period. The drive sucks more power when doing read/write operations, which generates more heat.
Passport here. No option to set tuner channels like SARA. But then since it's off, there's no need to.

Believe it or not, the drive is still running when your 8300HD is off (unless it's unplugged).
No, it is not spinning when the box is turned "off" and not recording a scheduled program.

Passport here. No option to set tuner channels like SARA. But then since it's off, there's no need to. I don't think either of us will convince the other on the issue of external enclosure fans.
Oh, I'm with you on the fans. :)

But I'm on Passport too. When the DVR's off, it does continue to buffer unless you specifically tune it to a non-recordable channel. If you listen close enough, you can hear the hard drive working when it's off. But when you tune to a non-recordable channel, and turn it off, it's quiet as can be.

You'll even notice it on your external drive. If the "trick play" buffer isn't working on the internal drive, it will constantly be writing to the external drive (even though it doesn't work right) -- on mine a red light blinks on access to the SATA drive. When I tune both of my tuners to VOD channels, the access light stops blinking.

Even if you don't believe me -- try it out and you might be surprised at what you find out!

Scott

Oh, I'm with you on the fans. :)
I edited that out. I thought I was replying to NewYorker. :)

But I'm on Passport too. When the DVR's off, it does continue to buffer unless you specifically tune it to a non-recordable channel. If you listen close enough, you can hear the hard drive working when it's off. But when you tune to a non-recordable channel, and turn it off, it's quiet as can be.

You'll even notice it on your external drive. If the "trick play" buffer isn't working on the internal drive, it will constantly be writing to the external drive (even though it doesn't work right) -- on mine a red light blinks on access to the SATA drive. When tune both of my tuners to VOD channels, the access light stops blinking.

Scott
Do you have Power Manager in Settings|General Settings? If not, then I would agree with your description of its operation.

Oh, I'm with you on the fans. :)

I'm on Passport . . When I tune both of my tuners to VOD channels . . .
How do you do that?

Do you have Power Manager in Settings|General Settings? If not, then I would agree with your description of its operation.
I do not have this setting. In NYC, they haven't given us any new settings since they gave us the audio output settings maybe 6 months ago.

How do you do that?
My VOD channels are in the 1000 block.

So I tune the current tuner to channel 1000. Then press "SWAP", tune the other tuner to 1002, and voila! The hard drive(s) stop(s) spinning!

I figure that if I ease the load on them by only spinning them when necessary, they'll last longer and get less errors over the long term (reducing physical wear and tear on the platters and heads, as well as reducing power consumption, thereby keeping the heat down).

And there's no danger, since if a scheduled recording pops up, it just tunes the 2nd tuner to whatever program you've selected and everything works just like normal. Of course, it will continue to be tuned to that channel after your recording is done, so the hard disc will be spinning just like it had been before, but at least you've saved the hard disc from spinning until your program starts.

I do not have this setting. In NYC, they haven't given us any new settings since they gave us the audio output settings maybe 6 months ago.
My point to NewYorker was that the code to enable/control that aspect - powering down the internal drive - was made available to system operators as a way of reducing the incidence of (internal) drive failure. Implementation of the various features is at the perogative of the sysops.

I am not dissuaded by his argument (in the kindest of connotations) that a drive not doing read/write operations draws less power and therefore generates less heat. On is on.

My VOD channels are in the 1000 block.

So I tune the current tuner to channel 1000. Then press "SWAP", tune the other tuner to 1002, and voila! The hard drive(s) stop(s) spinning!

I figure that if I ease the load on them by only spinning them when necessary, they'll last longer and get less errors over the long term.

And there's no danger, since if a scheduled recording pops up, it just tunes the 2nd tuner to whatever program you've selected and everything works just like normal. Of course, it will continue to be tuned to that channel after your recording is done, so the hard disc will be spinning just like it had been before, but at least you've saved the hard disc from spinning until your program starts.
Ah HA! No "swap" here . . .

Ah HA! No "swap" here . . .
All of the 8300HDs have "swap" on the remote control. If you've never found this button, it's one of the really neat-o features of the 8300 (HD and SD models, as well as the 8000). Trust me, it's on your remote.

What this button purports to do is allow you to swap what's in your PIP window with what's live on screen; but savvy 8300 users have realized that it allows you to basically watch 2 programs at once -- tune your main tuner to one show (like a sporting event), tune your 2nd tuner to some other show, and swap back and forth between the 2, skipping commecials, etc.

I am not dissuaded by his argument (in the kindest of connotations) that a drive not doing read/write operations draws less power and therefore generates less heat. On is on.
Actually, I have proof of this, when I got my new external SATA drive (Seagate Barracuda), I noticed specs in its documentation for idle power usage vs. R/W power usage. See here a spec sheet from Seagate:
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_barracuda_es.pdf

This specific drive consumes 9.3 watts when Idle, but 13.0 watts during "typical" usage. Not a tremendous difference, but more than 30% more power consumed. And think about the way the drive works when it's reading and writing, having to move its heads around the platter vs. when it's not and the heads can be idle. People forget that there are actual moving parts inside of a hard drive that do break down after a while -- especially during constant usage in a hot environment....

Not that I feel the need to convince anybody whether I'm right or wrong, but if I can spare anyone a hard drive failure in the long run, I might as well try to help! :)

All of the 8300HDs have "swap" on the remote control. If you've never found this button, it's one of the really neat-o features of the 8300 (HD and SD models, as well as the 8000). Trust me, it's on your remote.

What this button purports to do is allow you to swap what's in your PIP window with what's live on screen; but savvy 8300 users have realized that it allows you to basically watch 2 programs at once -- tune your main tuner to one show (like a sporting event), tune your 2nd tuner to some other show, and swap back and forth between the 2, skipping commecials, etc.
:o

We watch no live TV except for Today Show in the morning and CNN at a few other times. We watch all other programming from the DVR - movies, series, documantaries, etc. - minus commercials. I only see PIP when a cat walks on the remote and I have to scramble to find the @$#%#@^ #$#@* PIP controls.

But I won't be ignorant on the existance of a "swap" button anymore! :D

But I won't be ignorant on the existance of a "swap" button anymore! :D
Glad to be of service. When I find SWAP to be useful is when I'm out of space and there are 2 programs on at once that I want to see.

Or when my significant other wants to watch sports (which NOBODY wants to watch on any kind of delay), we can watch a few minutes of another program here-and-there during the commercials by swapping out.

There is one danger with the SWAP button. The DVR always uses the tuner that's not currently displayed on your screen to start recording something. So if something unexpectedly pops up for it to record, it will switch the tuner that's not currently being displayed to the channel that it wants to record from without warning you first!

Note that in the same area of the remote where the PIP and SWAP buttons are, there are +/- buttons which allow you to change the channel of the 2nd tuner w/o viewing it. This, again, is documented as being useful for the PIP functionality.

Hi Everyone,

My Dad is having some problems. Let me give you a brief history on my set-up, and then the problems he is having (we have the same set up).

A few months ago, I added the Vantec Nexstar 3 and a Maxtor 300GB drive to my 8300HD. Over the first couple of days, I had to do several reboots of everything as the box kept losing "sight" of the external drive. Since then, I have not had the problem at all and things have been working great. My case is quite hot, but it's been working, so I am not that worried about it.

A few days ago, I sent my Dad a list of what I had purchased to do the addition. He got the exact same items and set up was a breeze. He has called me a couple times since then saying that his box stopped recognizing the drive, etc. I told him it happened to me for a couple days and then stopped, so hopefully that was the same thing for him. It's been 4 days now and he still has problems.

Here was his latest problem: This morning, he turned everything on. The cable box sent some sort of signal to the TV, but no picture (basically just a border). A few minutes later, the picture came on, but none of the buttons would control the cable box (neither from the remote nor the box itself - he couldn't even turn the box off). After a few minutes of that, the box rebooted itself. When it came on from that self-reboot, the box worked fine but did not see the external drive. He then unplugged everything, let it all reboot, etc, and it is now working fine.

Any idea what the problem is? I don't think he minds the very seldom need for reboots, but if it needs to be done daily, or several times a day, that can be quite frustrating.

One note: I have Comcast in Manassas, VA, and he has Cox in Annandale, VA. So, not sure what differences that could play, if any, given that we have the same equipment.

Looking forward to any ideas/suggestions/fixes! Thank you!

Glad to be of service. When I find SWAP to be useful is when I'm out of space and there are 2 programs on at once that I want to see.

Or when my significant other wants to watch sports (which NOBODY wants to watch on any kind of delay), we can watch a few minutes of another program here-and-there during the commercials by swapping out.

There is one danger with the SWAP button. The DVR always uses the tuner that's not currently displayed on your screen to start recording something. So if something unexpectedly pops up for it to record, it will switch the tuner that's not currently being displayed to the channel that it wants to record from without warning you first!

Note that in the same area of the remote where the PIP and SWAP buttons are, there are +/- buttons which allow you to change the channel of the 2nd tuner w/o viewing it. This, again, is documented as being useful for the PIP functionality.
And now, to complete my embarrassment, I must say that after looking closely at my remote, I HAVE KNOWN about the "swap" button, but never had a clue I was switching between the two tuners. I only knew it as switching the display between two channels - current and previous. DOH!

:D

And now, to complete my embarrassment, I must say that after looking closely at my remote, I HAVE KNOWN about the "swap" button, but never had a clue I was switching between the two tuners. I only knew it as switching the display between two channels - current and previous. DOH!

:DMaybe that's why SARA makes you turn PIP on first in order to use the Swap button. That way you know what you are doing. Yeah, right! :) :D :)

Hi Everyone,

My Dad is having some problems. Let me give you a brief history on my set-up, and then the problems he is having (we have the same set up).

A few months ago, I added the Vantec Nexstar 3 and a Maxtor 300GB drive to my 8300HD. Over the first couple of days, I had to do several reboots of everything as the box kept losing "sight" of the external drive. Since then, I have not had the problem at all and things have been working great. My case is quite hot, but it's been working, so I am not that worried about it.

A few days ago, I sent my Dad a list of what I had purchased to do the addition. He got the exact same items and set up was a breeze. He has called me a couple times since then saying that his box stopped recognizing the drive, etc. I told him it happened to me for a couple days and then stopped, so hopefully that was the same thing for him. It's been 4 days now and he still has problems.

Here was his latest problem: This morning, he turned everything on. The cable box sent some sort of signal to the TV, but no picture (basically just a border). A few minutes later, the picture came on, but none of the buttons would control the cable box (neither from the remote nor the box itself - he couldn't even turn the box off). After a few minutes of that, the box rebooted itself. When it came on from that self-reboot, the box worked fine but did not see the external drive. He then unplugged everything, let it all reboot, etc, and it is now working fine.

Any idea what the problem is? I don't think he minds the very seldom need for reboots, but if it needs to be done daily, or several times a day, that can be quite frustrating.

One note: I have Comcast in Manassas, VA, and he has Cox in Annandale, VA. So, not sure what differences that could play, if any, given that we have the same equipment.

Looking forward to any ideas/suggestions/fixes! Thank you!
It's difficult to do any more than speculate at this point. What software and version is your/his box running? Was the balky start and unresponsive controls accompanied by anything flashing on the display?

Hi Everyone,

My Dad is having some problems. Let me give you a brief history on my set-up, and then the problems he is having (we have the same set up).

A few months ago, I added the Vantec Nexstar 3 and a Maxtor 300GB drive to my 8300HD. Over the first couple of days, I had to do several reboots of everything as the box kept losing "sight" of the external drive. Since then, I have not had the problem at all and things have been working great. My case is quite hot, but it's been working, so I am not that worried about it.

A few days ago, I sent my Dad a list of what I had purchased to do the addition. He got the exact same items and set up was a breeze. He has called me a couple times since then saying that his box stopped recognizing the drive, etc. I told him it happened to me for a couple days and then stopped, so hopefully that was the same thing for him. It's been 4 days now and he still has problems.

Here was his latest problem: This morning, he turned everything on. The cable box sent some sort of signal to the TV, but no picture (basically just a border). A few minutes later, the picture came on, but none of the buttons would control the cable box (neither from the remote nor the box itself - he couldn't even turn the box off). After a few minutes of that, the box rebooted itself. When it came on from that self-reboot, the box worked fine but did not see the external drive. He then unplugged everything, let it all reboot, etc, and it is now working fine.

Any idea what the problem is? I don't think he minds the very seldom need for reboots, but if it needs to be done daily, or several times a day, that can be quite frustrating.

One note: I have Comcast in Manassas, VA, and he has Cox in Annandale, VA. So, not sure what differences that could play, if any, given that we have the same equipment.

Looking forward to any ideas/suggestions/fixes! Thank you!

It's difficult to do any more than speculate at this point. What software and version is your/his box running? Was the balky start and unresponsive controls accompanied by anything flashing on the display?

I am running SARA 1.87.23.1 (no...no updates here yet!). He is running SARA 1.87.xx.x (he is not home now, but checked this morning and is certain it is 1.87...). He said he did not experience any flashing on the display during this.

I am running SARA 1.87.23.1 (no...no updates here yet!). He is running SARA 1.87.xx.x (he is not home now, but checked this morning and is certain it is 1.87...). He said he did not experience any flashing on the display during this.
Hopefully, some SARA users will drop in and assist. I am on Passport.

My case is quite hot, but it's been working, so I am not that worried about it.
I don't know if this is the problem or not, but I would be very worried if my case were "quite hot." This is why I am a proponent of active cooling - a FAN - in this application.

thanks Pepar...I was reading some of this thread again earlier this morning and saw a couple cheap options with fans. I may be ordering one to give it a try.

I apologize if this has been asked and answered.

I have a couple questions.
1) I have comcast in Alexandria and a 8300, does the external drive work ? (or rather is there a chance it will work)

2) How do I tell what software and version I am running?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
jctivo (can't aford tivo series 3 and need my HD!)

I apologize if this has been asked and answered.

2) How do I tell what software and version I am running?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Try searching the thread as it's been answered a hundred times.

Sorry if this has been answered:

I have SA8300HD with Passport 2.5.066 software. Will this support external eSATA drive? If so, can you point me to parts of thread that recommend drive, enclosure, cable? I don't have time to go through 95 pages of posts!

TIA,

Sorry if this has been answered:

I have SA8300HD with Passport 2.5.066 software. Will this support external eSATA drive? If so, can you point me to parts of thread that recommend drive, enclosure, cable? I don't have time to go through 95 pages of posts!

TIA,
Location?

Location?

TWC in NYC (Manhattan).

TWC in NYC (Manhattan).
Others in Manhattan have been successful adding external drives. Check the last 3-4 pages ffor a suggestion on hardware - the last 7-8 pages if you really want to get a sense of the latest goings on.

Others in Manhattan have been successful adding external drives. Check the last 3-4 pages ffor a suggestion on hardware - the last 7-8 pages if you really want to get a sense of the latest goings on.

Thanks -- that beats 98 pages! ;)

In addition, you might want to visit the first post and then the summary link referenced in that post.

In addition, you might want to visit the first post and then the summary link referenced in that post.

Great! Thanks...

Hi Everyone,

My Dad is having some problems. Let me give you a brief history on my set-up, and then the problems he is having (we have the same set up).

A few months ago, I added the Vantec Nexstar 3 and a Maxtor 300GB drive to my 8300HD. Over the first couple of days, I had to do several reboots of everything as the box kept losing "sight" of the external drive. Since then, I have not had the problem at all and things have been working great. My case is quite hot, but it's been working, so I am not that worried about it.

A few days ago, I sent my Dad a list of what I had purchased to do the addition. He got the exact same items and set up was a breeze. He has called me a couple times since then saying that his box stopped recognizing the drive, etc. I told him it happened to me for a couple days and then stopped, so hopefully that was the same thing for him. It's been 4 days now and he still has problems.

Here was his latest problem: This morning, he turned everything on. The cable box sent some sort of signal to the TV, but no picture (basically just a border). A few minutes later, the picture came on, but none of the buttons would control the cable box (neither from the remote nor the box itself - he couldn't even turn the box off). After a few minutes of that, the box rebooted itself. When it came on from that self-reboot, the box worked fine but did not see the external drive. He then unplugged everything, let it all reboot, etc, and it is now working fine.

Any idea what the problem is? I don't think he minds the very seldom need for reboots, but if it needs to be done daily, or several times a day, that can be quite frustrating.

One note: I have Comcast in Manassas, VA, and he has Cox in Annandale, VA. So, not sure what differences that could play, if any, given that we have the same equipment.

Looking forward to any ideas/suggestions/fixes! Thank you!

It's difficult to do any more than speculate at this point. What software and version is your/his box running? Was the balky start and unresponsive controls accompanied by anything flashing on the display?

I am running SARA 1.87.23.1 (no...no updates here yet!). He is running SARA 1.87.xx.x (he is not home now, but checked this morning and is certain it is 1.87...). He said he did not experience any flashing on the display during this.

Anyone with SARA have any similar issues or suggestions? Thanks.

Funny, I do the same thing, channel surf during commercials. BUT, I use the "Last" button, not the "Swap" button. Mostly because if I'm recording something, the second tuner is occupied. Also I don't have to set up the two tuners. I'd only use the Swap button if I'm doing PIP... and I only do PIP if I'm watching a game (and not recording something).

Scott, I think you mentioned having 2 buffers. Absent actual software documentation, practical experience seems to point me to one and only one buffer... that which is attached to whatever "main" channel you are watching. AND your "last channel" if the 8300 is "off" (which is never really is unless you pull the power). Never tried the VOD channel thing, I usually try and leave it at my favorite news channel so that even if I get there late the next day, I can rack the video back to pick it up when want it as opposed to setting it as a recording. I've also many times left it on a channel I want to see something on at, say, 10, turned everything off, done other things, got back at 10:10 and been able to "rack" it back to 10 and watch from the buffer. It's stuff like this that I've gotten used to that makes me hesitant to add an additional drive.

I too have a long history using hard drives, so I think I understand the beasts better than most. They are designed to run hot. More times than not, they actually run 10-20 degrees cooler than the top of their ranges. As some have pointed out, the real criteria is environmental. If you have the thing located above heat producing equipment, or in a badly ventilated spot, get a enclosure with a fan. If it's in an openish area with good air circulation, it isn't necessary. Oh, my previous computer had 2 arrays internally, with one drive stacked on top of the other (2 2 drive stacks) with no forced cooling. Bottom of the tower so no heat below them. Ran 24/7 for something like 3 years. Never had any heat related issues, like I said, they ran cooler than the maximum allowable, even is a "not the best" environment.

regarding my questions above...just found out that it happened again this morning. Appears that the problem usually happens in the morning after everything has been off overnight (the external drive is not turned off). Does this help diagnose the problem at all?

Oh, my previous computer had 2 arrays internally, with one drive stacked on top of the other (2 2 drive stacks) with no forced cooling. Bottom of the tower so no heat below them. Ran 24/7 for something like 3 years. Never had any heat related issues, like I said, they ran cooler than the maximum allowable, even is a "not the best" environment.But isn't the difference the fact that the external drive actually runs 24/7, unlike your PC drives? I don't necessarily disagree that a well-ventilated external drive might work reliably for years without a fan, just that the analogy between the external drive that runs 24/7 and a PC drive(s) might not be the best indicator of drive life.

But isn't the difference the fact that the external drive actually runs 24/7, unlike your PC drives?
That's the chorus of a new song I'm working on - "Shall we fan the drive?" :D

<pardon for picking up the tail of a thread, careful about asking too much of a RV Park wireless string&can network>
PASSPORT .112 in TWC-KC had a separate [buffer] attached to each [tuner output]. I often bounced between paused shows, and used this when the wife left the TV unsecured and unattended but I knew she was counting on coming back to the buffer. No information about whether the buffers are actually two files or one...

v/r,
C-F

What this button purports to do is allow you to swap what's in your PIP window with what's live on screen; but savvy 8300 users have realized that it allows you to basically watch 2 programs at once -- tune your main tuner to one show (like a sporting event), tune your 2nd tuner to some other show, and swap back and forth between the 2, skipping commecials, etc.

Could you explain this a little further, please?

How is this better than the last button? That swaps between the current channel and the last channel you were on.

If you use the swap button, you have to call up the PIP screen first (at least I do) so it's extra buttons to push to turn on the PIP and then turn it off.

Could you explain this a little further, please?

How is this better than the last button? That swaps between the current channel and the last channel you were on.

If you use the swap button, you have to call up the PIP screen first (at least I do) so it's extra buttons to push to turn on the PIP and then turn it off.

There are 2 tuners in the 8300. The "swap" button simply alternates back and forth between the two tuners. Each one is buffering back an hour on the channel it's currently tuned to. Change the channel on either tuner and its buffer starts over with the new channel. Passport users do not have to engage PIP to use the swap button to switch back and forth between the two tuners. I don't know about SARA software in this regard.

The "last" button is nothing more than a "previous channel" button on one of the two tuners. It simply changes that tuner to the last channel tuned on it; the other tuner likewise functions independently. Note that when you change channels, you flush the buffer and start over.

But isn't the difference the fact that the external drive actually runs 24/7, unlike your PC drives? I don't necessarily disagree that a well-ventilated external drive might work reliably for years without a fan, just that the analogy between the external drive that runs 24/7 and a PC drive(s) might not be the best indicator of drive life.

Uh, I said my "pc" drives ran 24/7 for over 3 years. And that they were stacked, so one got far more "heat" than any single drive. And the arms moving the heads around probably got more use in the computer application; they were flitting around for more hours typically than an external drive on my STB would be.

I really don't want to make this a big issue; nobody will be hurt by going with a enclosure with a fan. It's just that there are circumstances (bedroom HD) where a fan CAN be an issue and I don't find the "you have to have a fan or the drive could fry itself" as compelling as some might (I suspect most don't' realize that the 8300 doesn't appear to have any fans to cool it's constantly running HD).

The STB AND any external drive should be positioned to minimize heat.

There are 2 tuners in the 8300. The "swap" button simply alternates back and forth between the two tuners. Each one is buffering back an hour on the channel it's currently tuned to. Change the channel on either tuner and its buffer starts over with the new channel. Passport users do not have to engage PIP to use the swap button to switch back and forth between the two tuners. I don't know about SARA software in this regard.

The "last" button is nothing more than a "previous channel" button on one of the two tuners. It simply changes that tuner to the last channel tuned on it; the other tuner likewise functions independently. Note that when you change channels, you flush the buffer and start over.

Ok. That makes a bit more sense now, so you actually can have the secondary tuner (in the background) paused while watching on the primary tuner.

I'm on SARA so I guess that's why this isn't as readily available to me.

In addition, I think, with SARA, if the primary tuner is paused and you swap it into the PIP box, it will automatically unpause and start playing.

Ah, I didn't realize that each tuner had a separate buffer (could that be a 2.5.066 function that wasn't in 1.8.x?)! It gets weirder... I said that even with the 8300 off, it was always recording to it's buffer, and there have been some times I have personally seen exactly this. However, learning of a new feature, I had to play. Turned on the set, up pops SHO, the last channel I had looked at last night. NO BUFFER AT ALL! Very odd. Hit the swap button, it goes to 702 (CBS HD) where I had been watching the Jets yesterday. A full one hour buffer was there. Sure LOOKED like it was keeping only one buffer. Even so, for the next 5 minutes I think I see it accumulating for 2 buffers, one of each channel. (Ah, I think I get it... it had recorded something in the middle of the night on 704, so that's probably why it had no buffer on 703 (SHO) when I fired it up this morning).

Very cool... I can swap with the swap button and not have to time it exactly because I can rack it back if I think I missed something important.

Very cool... I can swap with the swap button and not have to time it exactly because I can rack it back if I think I missed something important.

Exactly. If, for example, you're watching two live football games on a Sunday afternoon, you can tune each tuner to a different game and "swap" back and forth between them, using each tuner's buffer to trick-play all you want. If you use the "last" button to bounce back and forth between the games on one tuner, you'll flush the buffer each time you change the channel.

Uh, I said my "pc" drives ran 24/7 for over 3 years. And that they were stacked, so one got far more "heat" than any single drive. And the arms moving the heads around probably got more use in the computer application; they were flitting around for more hours typically than an external drive on my STB would be.

I really don't want to make this a big issue; nobody will be hurt by going with a enclosure with a fan. It's just that there are circumstances (bedroom HD) where a fan CAN be an issue and I don't find the "you have to have a fan or the drive could fry itself" as compelling as some might (I suspect most don't' realize that the 8300 doesn't appear to have any fans to cool it's constantly running HD).

The STB AND any external drive should be positioned to minimize heat.
The 8300HD has no fans, but has a nearly completely perforated top and a perfed side to allow convection to remove the heat. Most external (passively cooled) enclosures are nowhere near as airy and rely on conduction to move heat from the drive to the enclosure where radiation and in-room air movement is relied upon to move the heat from the enclosure to the surrounding environment. This "assumes" that the installation is arranged so as to minimize stagnant air around the component(s) and is in an environment that is not overly warm. "Assumes."

I think you have pretty much nailed it with this post, though. :)

Scott, I think you mentioned having 2 buffers. Absent actual software documentation, practical experience seems to point me to one and only one buffer... that which is attached to whatever "main" channel you are watching.
2 buffers. One on the channel you're tuned to, and the other on the "back channel" -- the one that you're not tuned to or is being used to record something.

This can be easily demonstrated, and I used it all the time in the following manner (when you're not recording something):
1. Tune to some show on your main tuner.
2. Press swap.
3. Tune to something on the 2nd tuner.
4. Swap back to the original tuner. Watch for a while. Note that you can FF/REW/Pause, etc.
5. Swap again to the 2nd tuner. Note that the channel on the other tuner has been buffering the entire time that you were on the 1st tuner, and you can FF/REW/Pause this channel as well.
6. Swap back and see that the first channel was still buffering while you were watching the 2nd.

The 8300 has 2 tuners, which are always in operation, and both are always buffering simultaneously. You can swap between them at will with the "SWAP" button.

Ah, I didn't realize that each tuner had a separate buffer (could that be a 2.5.066 function that wasn't in 1.8.x?)!
Nope -- this has been around since day 1. Even before then -- it was a feature of the 8000HD as well.

It gets weirder... I said that even with the 8300 off, it was always recording to it's buffer, and there have been some times I have personally seen exactly this. However, learning of a new feature, I had to play. Turned on the set, up pops SHO, the last channel I had looked at last night. NO BUFFER AT ALL!

This happens if you DVR has recorded something while it was off.

Uh, I said my "pc" drives ran 24/7 for over 3 years.
True, but generally, PC drives are not put through 24/7 read/write operations at high bandwidth (picture 2 HD streams being written and then immediately read back, and possibly a 3rd HD stream being simultaneously played back). PC drives get bursts of high bandwidth operations, but (in general), those are more the exception than the rule.

This explains the high rate of failure in 8300HD internal hard drives. They never get a chance to cool down -- they are under constant stress.

The 8300 has 2 tuners, which are always in operation, and both are always buffering simultaneously. You can swap between them at will with the "SWAP" button.
In DIAGS under System Summary, the tuners and the frequencies to which they are tuned are listed. You'd need to know what frequency assignments the channels have to make sense of it, but the info is there.

True, but generally, PC drives are not put through 24/7 read/write operations at high bandwidth (picture 2 HD streams being written and then immediately read back, and possibly a 3rd HD stream being simultaneously played back). PC drives get bursts of high bandwidth operations, but (in general), those are more the exception than the rule.

This explains the high rate of failure in 8300HD internal hard drives. They never get a chance to cool down -- they are under constant stress.
FWIW, the file sizes on our DVRs are gargantuan - got out my thesaurus :) - compared to those on computer hard drives minimizing r/w head thrashing as most files are contiguous. Fragmentation over time does occur, but at a much slower rate and, probably, never even approaching that of a drive in a computer.

FWIW, the file sizes on our DVRs are gargantuan - got out my thesaurus :) - compared to those on computer hard drives minimizing r/w head thrashing as most files are contiguous. Fragmentation over time does occur, but at a much slower rate and, probably, never even approaching that of a drive in a computer.

You have to wonder if the life of the 8300 could be extended if the drive were defrag'ed occasionally. I know recordings are big chunks of contiguous data, but fragmentation over time has to occur, and that tends to rob HDD's of their optimal performance.

FWIW, the file sizes on our DVRs are gargantuan - got out my thesaurus :) - compared to those on computer hard drives minimizing r/w head thrashing as most files are contiguous. Fragmentation over time does occur, but at a much slower rate and, probably, never even approaching that of a drive in a computer.
I guess that depends on how quickly you take things on/off your DVR and how much SD programming you put on there. I suspect that my discs are quite fragemented based upon my own usage.....

Regardless, the pure physical action of the heads being under 24/7 constant high bandwidth read/write stress (of up to 3 distinct streams, none of which is likely to be contiguous to one-another) is surely none-too-good for their long-term health.

You have to wonder if the life of the 8300 could be extended if the drive were defrag'ed occasionally. I know recordings are big chunks of contiguous data, but fragmentation over time has to occur, and that tends to rob HDD's of their optimal performance.
This is true, and I've wondered for years about fragmentation on the DVR hard discs. But I know nothing about the structure of the AVFS filesystem, and depending on how it is designed, fragmentation/defragmentation might not be applicable.

There are ways to design file systems so that fragmentation will not be an issue.

True, but generally, PC drives are not put through 24/7 read/write operations at high bandwidth (picture 2 HD streams being written and then immediately read back, and possibly a 3rd HD stream being simultaneously played back). PC drives get bursts of high bandwidth operations, but (in general), those are more the exception than the rule.

This explains the high rate of failure in 8300HD internal hard drives. They never get a chance to cool down -- they are under constant stress.

I usually turn the power off on each of the two 8300's I use with the add on drive. This stops the intermitant ticking I always hear on the external drives. I assume ?? that this is reducing the wear and tear on the drive.

Steve

You have to wonder if the life of the 8300 could be extended if the drive were defrag'ed occasionally. I know recordings are big chunks of contiguous data, but fragmentation over time has to occur, and that tends to rob HDD's of their optimal performance.
Defrag utilities use memory to move data off the drive and back on. I don't think these boxes have enough RAM to defrag. If one stores weekly programming for a short time until it is viewed and then erased, fragmentation would develop quickly. In that case, another - fresh - drive could be swapped in and used while the other was formatted by a PC (requiring the 8300HD to format it again when it is swapped in. If one is building a library of hi-def movies with little of no churn, then fragmentation will probably not become an issue. The box will fail before that happens and POOF! there goes the fragmentation.

Just my $.01.

I usually turn the power off on each of the two 8300's I use with the add on drive. This stops the intermitant ticking I always hear on the external drives. I assume ?? that this is reducing the wear and tear on the drive.

Steve
You pull the power cord?

Hi Pepar,

I should have been more clear. I just turn the power off on the front panel of each 8300 when not in use actually viewing. In both cases the extrnal drive obviously keep it's power on and the external drive keeps spinning. But, as I said the intermitant clicking (drive head active) stops, except when the unit may automatically power up to record preprogramed shows.

I certainly think that I am doing no harm and possibly lenghtening the life of the exteral drive in doing so.

I have also been continuing to use multiple external drives on one of the 8300's with few problems except trying to keep track of what drive has what on it. It has been a pain at times, but no mechanical problems for about a year.

Steve

Defrag utilities use memory to move data off the drive and back on. I don't think these boxes have enough RAM to defrag. If one stores weekly programming for a short time until it is viewed and then erased, fragmentation would develop quickly. In that case, another - fresh - drive could be swapped in and used while the other was formatted by a PC (requiring the 8300HD to format it again when it is swapped in. If one is building a library of hi-def movies with little of no churn, then fragmentation will probably not become an issue. The box will fail before that happens and POOF! there goes the fragmentation.

Just my $.01.

I know this is the SATA thread, but I was speaking of the internal drive on the 8300. I imagine that after 2 years of steady time-shifting, my 8300's HDD is a cluttered mess.

To my knowledge, there is no way to simply direct content to the external drive, is there? The machine will fill the internal drive all the way up and then start recording stuff on the external drive, no? So, I don't know how one could designate an external drive for archiving movies, for example. You'd have to keep your internal drive in a state of perpetual fullness in order to get programming sent to the external. And that seems pretty risky for time-shifting, which is what most of us use the DVR for.

If the external drives were an "official" supported feature, one would hope that ability would be part of the feature set. When a TWC engineer first told me about proposed expansion drives for their HD-DVR's over 3 years ago, he mentioned that would be one of the features (directing content to a specific drive), and that content on different drives would be color-coded in the on-screen guide so you could easily and quickly see what content was where. He also said that the cable company would lease the expansion drives to customers for around $2/month. He was just a wee bit "off" in his predictions, as it turned out. ;)

Hi Pepar,

I should have been more clear. I just turn the power off on the front panel of each 8300 when not in use actually viewing.
Ok, gotcha. I think we all do this, don't we?

I know this is the SATA thread, but I was speaking of the internal drive on the 8300. I imagine that after 2 years of steady time-shifting, my 8300's HDD is a cluttered mess.
Watch and delete everything before recording anything else if that's a concern.

To my knowledge, there is no way to simply direct content to the external drive, is there? The machine will fill the internal drive all the way up and then start recording stuff on the external drive, no? So, I don't know how one could designate an external drive for archiving movies, for example. You'd have to keep your internal drive in a state of perpetual fullness in order to get programming sent to the external. And that seems pretty risky for time-shifting, which is what most of us use the DVR for.
No, there is no way to assign content to a particular drive - it is determined by the box based on free space, but my reference was on a "per 8300HD/ext drive" basis. The one in our bedroom catches various series and movies whicn tend to get watched within a week or so. The 8300HD in my "serious" home theater has been grabbing movies to keep (until the whole rig goes south). The internal drive on that one filled up a long time ago. I have movies on it that were recorded 18-20 months ago.

If the external drives were an "official" supported feature, one would hope that ability would be part of the feature set. When a TWC engineer first told me about proposed expansion drives for their HD-DVR's over 3 years ago, he mentioned that would be one of the features (directing content to a specific drive), and that content on different drives would be color-coded in the on-screen guide so you could easily and quickly see what content was where. He also said that the cable company would lease the expansion drives to customers for around $2/month. He was just a wee bit "off" in his predictions, as it turned out. ;)
I think the imagination of SA (and TWC) got ahead of the market - too far ahead.

Defrag utilities use memory to move data off the drive and back on. I don't think these boxes have enough RAM to defrag.
Actually, if you look in the diagnostics screens, the 8300HDs have quite a bit of RAM in them.....

Scott

Watch and delete everything before recording anything else if that's a concern.

Not an option. I'd have to take a week off work, and even then I might not get everything watched. If my unit ever "goes south", I'm hosed.


No, there is no way to assign content to a particular drive - it is determined by the box based on free space, but my reference was on a "per 8300HD/ext drive" basis. The one in our bedroom catches various series and movies whicn tend to get watched within a week or so. The 8300HD in my "serious" home theater has been grabbing movies to keep (until the whole rig goes south). The internal drive on that one filled up a long time ago. I have movies on it that were recorded 18-20 months ago.

Ah yes, the ol' "two-DVR solution", using one just for movies w/ an expansion drive. Yep, that'll work! How much are they charging you for that second 8300? Same as the first? I assume you're still only paying one guide fee....?


I think the imagination of SA (and TWC) got ahead of the market - too far ahead.

I'm not so sure about that. If expansion drives were a supported feature, there would probably be a decent number of folks requesting it. But even if there wasn't a big demand for it, it'd still be a nice option for folks like us - and we tend to be their biggest spending customers (for me, in excess of $160/mo. Yikes!).

Actually, if you look in the diagnostics screens, the 8300HDs have quite a bit of RAM in them.....

Scott
But, IMO, not enough. At least not enough to do it in any reasonable amount of time.

Ah yes, the ol' "two-DVR solution", using one just for movies w/ an expansion drive. Yep, that'll work! How much are they charging you for that second 8300? Same as the first? I assume you're still only paying one guide fee....?
I don't recall seeing a "guide fee", but the second box costs the same as the first.

There are ways to design file systems so that fragmentation will not be an issue.

Absolutely... 10.4/Tiger of OS X has built-in defragging. It only works for large files, I think 20MB and up, something like that. File system is pretty much the same as it's been for years, so the functionality (in this case) doesn't have to come from the fs.

All of the 8300HDs have "swap" on the remote control. If you've never found this button, it's one of the really neat-o features of the 8300 (HD and SD models, as well as the 8000). Trust me, it's on your remote.

What this button purports to do is allow you to swap what's in your PIP window with what's live on screen; but savvy 8300 users have realized that it allows you to basically watch 2 programs at once -- tune your main tuner to one show (like a sporting event), tune your 2nd tuner to some other show, and swap back and forth between the 2, skipping commecials, etc.

Interesting. I do use the PIP to watch two sporting event's simulatenously. But what I've found that works a bit better for me personally is to use 'Last' button. This is a bit more distracting and I get tired of hitting the 'Move' button to optimize the viewing. Now maybe if they'd move it to the corner of the 16:9 screen when you've got it setup for a 16:9 TV, it's be more out of the way, but they stick it in what would effectively be the corner of the 4:3 subwindow.

Record both sports programs you want to watch simulatenously but w/o PIP. Tune to one of the channels at the beginning (or do the rewind job) so that it's using the 'buffer' on it. Then use 'List' and select the 2nd recording and hit 'Play from the beginning'. Then you use Last to swap between the two and FF through the Down Time (i.e. Between Wrecks / Pit Stops / Favorite drivers action and Between Plays.)

I find this great while watching NFL games and Nascar Races (i.e. Colts / Bronco's game and Atlant 500 yesterday) Heck I even started watching it 1.5hrs into it the Colts game.

CCourtney

I don't recall seeing a "guide fee", but the second box costs the same as the first.

Argh, I keep forgetting about a second 8300. Just checked my cable bill, I think it's listed as "Converter @ 7.49 ea." That's' like 18 months compared to a 320G external drive (I'm still of twisted mind about the work involved in dealing with the "trick play bug").

I know this is a stab in the dark, but I'm guessing that by next summer we may be using Mystro, the OCAP IPG. At least in NYC... or maybe a tad later. Diana Smith did say external drives would be completely supported, so that dynamic may change quite a bit by then.

The whole archiving thing I find interesting. A good bud went bonkers building a huge DVD library by recording to a Panasonic HD + DVD Recorder (in addition to ripping discs we get from the library, given a 1 week only rental, we are time shifting). For the past 2 years or so I would always claim I didn't need it because we both pay a small fortune for cable and everything will roll around anyway. Turns out he hasn't watched hardly any of this archive. I also at one time was buying DVDs like water. Financial circumstances changed and I stopped buying. So I have this collection of DVDs... which I never watch. The current excuse is eventually I'll see HD versions coming down the cable.

Like my man George Carlin always says, "we are ALL diseased!"

I know this is a stab in the dark, but I'm guessing that by next summer we may be using Mystro, the OCAP IPG. At least in NYC... or maybe a tad later. Diana Smith did say external drives would be completely supported, so that dynamic may change quite a bit by then.
Well, she sort of said that:

You asked:
Will the new "Mystro" Digital Navigator fully support external SATA hard drives?
And she replied:
SATA - I would think so
That didn't sound like an knowledgable answer! We need somehow to get her to make a commitment to try to make that happen.

That didn't sound like an knowledgable answer! We need somehow to get her to make a commitment to try to make that happen.

Ask and ye shall receive. She has asked for TWC consumer input in this thread here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=733414)

Ask and ye shall receive. She has asked for TWC consumer input in this thread here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=733414)
Oh yes, I know - where do think the quotes came from?

The machine will fill the internal drive all the way up and then start recording stuff on the external drive, no?

My understanding is that the machine will choose the drive with the least recorded on it when a scheduled recording starts. I don't know if the selection is based on % of capacity or hours of content. (SARA 1.88.?)

That didn't sound like an knowledgable answer! We need somehow to get her to make a commitment to try to make that happen.

Indeed, it looks like I colored her answer a tad... yes, not a ringing endorsement. One of the problems with that thread is that folks are bombarding her with the kitchen sink, not sticking to stuff that she may have an actual say on. What we REALLY need is some exec from their engineering group listening to us!

Indeed, it looks like I colored her answer a tad... yes, not a ringing endorsement.
One of the things about climbing the corporate ladder is that one becomes more like a politician - people hear what they want to hear when the person really said nothing at all. Sorry, Diana. :rolleyes:

One of the things about climbing the corporate ladder is that one becomes more like a politician - people hear what they want to hear when the person really said nothing at all. Sorry, Diana. :rolleyes:
I prefer the believe (and I think that is the case here - based on Diana's earlier active participation on the AVSForum) is that management is looking for an effective way to get public input for their product development.

I prefer the believe (and I think that is the case here - based on Diana's earlier active participation on the AVSForum) is that management is looking for an effective way to get public input for their product development.
And we all wish the best for Diana in this new position!

But as you said, it's for them to get public input. I'll bet that very little real info will flow the other way. I hope I'm wrong. And I also hope that her sunny disposition wears well in the trench that they're throwing her into. The "public" - especially on this forum and on this subject - can be brutal.

She has been in that trench for many years. I know from when she was active on a national scale that information did flow both ways (but people on the forum need to listen to what is being said). I (and I know that this is also true of the other Dave) gained a good of insight from her of the technical difficulties that the cable companies face.

She has been in that trench for many years. I know from when she was active on a national scale that information did flow both ways (but people on the forum need to listen to what is being said). I (and I know that this is also true of the other Dave) gained a good of insight from her of the technical difficulties that the cable companies face.
Sometimes what I think is realism on my part is actually pessimism. Tough to tell the difference sometimes. Again, I hope i'm wrong and that we, TWC (and possibly by extension, the cable industry) and Diana benefit from this move.

:)

My understanding is that the machine will choose the drive with the least recorded on it when a scheduled recording starts. I don't know if the selection is based on % of capacity or hours of content. (SARA 1.88.?)
I believe it selects the drive based upon raw MB free on the drive.

I believe it selects the drive based upon raw MB free on the drive.
That's it. Real simple. It's which drive has the most space available.

That's it. Real simple. It's which drive has the most space available.And on SARA (perhaps also on Passport) that "space available" is determined on a %full (not on available GB) basis.

And on SARA (perhaps also on Passport) that "space available" is determined on a %full (not on available GB) basis.
Which drive it writes the files to purely depends on which drive has the most physical space available at the time of recording. That's it.

And on SARA (perhaps also on Passport) that "space available" is determined on a %full (not on available GB) basis.
I see the little scales showing percentage(s), but the text leads me to question whether the "logic" uses percent or raw space . . .

Which drive it writes the files to purely depends on which drive has the most physical space available at the time of recording. That's it.And you know this how??

This SA Documentation (pdf pg 23) (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf) (which at least applies to SARA) clearly shows "% Space Used".

And you know this how??

This SA Documentation (pdf pg 23) (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf) (which at least applies to SARA) clearly shows "% Space Used".

I see the little scales showing percentage(s), but the text leads me to question whether the "logic" uses percent or raw space . . .

:)

edit: I'll expand a bit. The internal 160GB drive is 90% filled and the external 500GB drive is 92% filled. Where's the 8300HD going to put a scheduled recording of a three-hour movie? In spite of the little graphic, I think the "decision" is based on absolute space available, not percentage available.

Just my $.01.

i'm sure this has been covered but i haven't been able to locate it...so could someone please point me in the right direction :)

what were to happen if after i got my 8300HD to record on my external drive, i unplugged it and used it with my CPU. What types of files would i see, would windows still recognize the drive? I would love to believe that i would see all my recordings with a weird number then .ts and i could transfer these to my computer, but i'm guessing its not quite as easy as that.

thanks in advance :)

what were to happen if after i got my 8300HD to record on my external drive, i unplugged it and used it with my CPU. What types of files would i see, would windows still recognize the drive? I would love to believe that i would see all my recordings with a weird number then .ts and i could transfer these to my computer, but i'm guessing its not quite as easy as that.Perhaps someone else can address what you will see in the terms of file types and organization but I do know that the file contents are encrypted with a key that is unique to the particular 8300 that recorded it. The bottom line is that the files supposedly cannot be decrypted by anything but the particular 8300 that created the files.

i'm sure this has been covered but i haven't been able to locate it...so could someone please point me in the right direction :)

what were to happen if after i got my 8300HD to record on my external drive, i unplugged it and used it with my CPU. What types of files would i see, would windows still recognize the drive? I would love to believe that i would see all my recordings with a weird number then .ts and i could transfer these to my computer, but i'm guessing its not quite as easy as that.

thanks in advance :)
It has been covered, but not for a while. You would see nothing on the drive because your computer would see an unformatted drive and offer to format it. Do you really think content providers would allow their HIGH DEFINITION programming to be copied to a computer and uploaded to the 'net? :)

You also cannot move an external drive to another 8300HD, in your house or a neighbor's, and watch the recorded content. That includes your 8300HD going south and you getting a different 8300HD. You're starting from scratch at that point.

hmm i see! well i'm a little lost why windows wouldnt recognize the drive as already formatted with data on it at least, wouldnt the SA 8300HD use a simiar file system/structure?

thanks for the info though, and i do believe u it doesnt work ;)

hmm i see! well i'm a little lost why windows wouldnt recognize the drive as already formatted with data on it at least, wouldnt the SA 8300HD use a simiar file system/structure?
No, it wouldn't. And on purpose at that.

hmm i see! well i'm a little lost why windows wouldnt recognize the drive as already formatted with data on it at least, wouldnt the SA 8300HD use a simiar file system/structure?Similar, sure...in the sense that there are probably directories, and files, and an index table that keeps track of where the data is physically stored on the platter, etc.

In that sense, all file systems--Linux, Mac, DOS/Windows FAT, Windows NTFS, etc.--are similar. But "similar" does not equal "compatible". Try sticking a Linux-formatted hard drive in a Windows box, or an NTFS-formatted hard drive in a Linux box. Without special applications or operating system extensions, those OSes won't just automatically read each others' file systems.

Now imagine that someone were designing a hard-drive based storage system that they intentionally didn't *want* anyone else to be able to read, to prevent the stored data from being duplicated and distributed to others. It's relatively easy to do. Futher suppose that same someone combined their proprietary, undocumented file system with undocumented encryption for the data stored within that file system.

The result is that even if you could write an app to detect and interpret the file system, the data representing your recorded shows would still be gibberish.

Further, the encryption key is different for every 8300HD out there, so if someone else figured out how to read the file system and managed to crack the encoding for their box, they wouldn't necessarily be able to tell you how to decode the data from your box.

Doesn't mean it can't be done. Just means it's likely a lot of work. If someone's managed to do it, they're not bragging about it here.

I prefer the believe (and I think that is the case here - based on Diana's earlier active participation on the AVSForum) is that management is looking for an effective way to get public input for their product development.

Ah, raging optimism! For no particular reason, I kinda think this is more about who is as opposed to any "directive" from her immediate manager, i.e. her participation here is at her own direction.

No matter, at the least she can be somewhat of a voice for the customers in those internal meetings. I recall saying before I even knew about her that SOMEONE in that org HAD to actually care about what customers wanted!

Ah, raging optimism!
Nah, Dave's just being supportive and a gentleman, two things the world can use more of . .

Hi Everyone,

My Dad is having some problems. Let me give you a brief history on my set-up, and then the problems he is having (we have the same set up).

A few months ago, I added the Vantec Nexstar 3 and a Maxtor 300GB drive to my 8300HD. Over the first couple of days, I had to do several reboots of everything as the box kept losing "sight" of the external drive. Since then, I have not had the problem at all and things have been working great. My case is quite hot, but it's been working, so I am not that worried about it.

A few days ago, I sent my Dad a list of what I had purchased to do the addition. He got the exact same items and set up was a breeze. He has called me a couple times since then saying that his box stopped recognizing the drive, etc. I told him it happened to me for a couple days and then stopped, so hopefully that was the same thing for him. It's been 4 days now and he still has problems.

Here was his latest problem: This morning, he turned everything on. The cable box sent some sort of signal to the TV, but no picture (basically just a border). A few minutes later, the picture came on, but none of the buttons would control the cable box (neither from the remote nor the box itself - he couldn't even turn the box off). After a few minutes of that, the box rebooted itself. When it came on from that self-reboot, the box worked fine but did not see the external drive. He then unplugged everything, let it all reboot, etc, and it is now working fine.

Any idea what the problem is? I don't think he minds the very seldom need for reboots, but if it needs to be done daily, or several times a day, that can be quite frustrating.

One note: I have Comcast in Manassas, VA, and he has Cox in Annandale, VA. So, not sure what differences that could play, if any, given that we have the same equipment.

Looking forward to any ideas/suggestions/fixes! Thank you!

It's difficult to do any more than speculate at this point. What software and version is your/his box running? Was the balky start and unresponsive controls accompanied by anything flashing on the display?

I am running SARA 1.87.23.1 (no...no updates here yet!). He is running SARA 1.87.xx.x (he is not home now, but checked this morning and is certain it is 1.87...). He said he did not experience any flashing on the display during this.

I posted this a few days ago and I am hoping it just got lost in the thread. Is there anyone who has had similar experiences with SARA? I am looking for some suggestions to look into. Thank you! (And thank you to Pepar for the quick replies to the original post!)

I posted this a few days ago and I am hoping it just got lost in the thread. Is there anyone who has had similar experiences with SARA? I am looking for some suggestions to look into. Thank you! (And thank you to Pepar for the quick replies to the original post!)
SARA users seem to be (fortunately only) occasionally afflicted with odd incompatibility issues. Have you tried attaching your drive to a computer to verify operation? Don't worry about formatting it for computer usage as the 8300HD will see it as unformatted when attached (and working :( ). If it does work on a computer and not the STB, then this might be one of those incompatibility situations. If that is the case (haha) then you've got yourself two computer hard drives and need to try a different drive for the STBs. Sorry . . .

ok, thanks. I'll ask him to give that a try. Appreciate it!

She has been in that trench for many years. I know from when she was active on a national scale that information did flow both ways (but people on the forum need to listen to what is being said). I (and I know that this is also true of the other Dave) gained a good of insight from her of the technical difficulties that the cable companies face.Being the "other" Dave, it was a sad day indeed for all when Diana chose to leave the national 8300 threads and devote her time to the SC thread. Unfortunately, the same thing may happen again, though I suspect she is a bit wiser now and started the Customer Input thread knowing full well what she was in for. I trust she will simply ignore the bashers, etc., and press on with the work at hand in her new position. Those complaining about things on other cable systems should be completely ignored and those complaining about TWC issues should be referred to the correct thread. Eventually most folks will get the hint that the thread is only for what the title (and forst post) says it is and nothing more. :)

I have an 8300HD, and purchased a Maxtor Quickview Expander (300GB) about 15 months ago. It's been working flawlessly up until about a week ago. The Maxtor started getting noisy, and I've traced it to the little fan failing. Maxtor doesn't do any service on this kit, and it's out of warranty (12 months). Right now, I've got a 280 buck paperweight sitting on my desk.

Does anyone know how to take these apart? All I need to do is replace the fan, and I'm back in business. Maxtor is no help right now.

Thanks!

I have an 8300HD, and purchased a Maxtor Quickview Expander (300GB) about 15 months ago. It's been working flawlessly up until about a week ago. The Maxtor started getting noisy, and I've traced it to the little fan failing. Maxtor doesn't do any service on this kit, and it's out of warranty (12 months). Right now, I've got a 280 buck paperweight sitting on my desk.

Does anyone know how to take these apart? All I need to do is replace the fan, and I'm back in business. Maxtor is no help right now.

Thanks!

Maxtor the paperweight factory :)

Buy Seagate next time around , they have 5 (five) years warranty.

I have an 8300HD, and purchased a Maxtor Quickview Expander (300GB) about 15 months ago. It's been working flawlessly up until about a week ago. The Maxtor started getting noisy, and I've traced it to the little fan failing. Maxtor doesn't do any service on this kit, and it's out of warranty (12 months). Right now, I've got a 280 buck paperweight sitting on my desk.

Does anyone know how to take these apart? All I need to do is replace the fan, and I'm back in business. Maxtor is no help right now.

Thanks!
Get some tools and take it apart. It's not like you'll void your warranty. Fans are pretty much standard sizes. Yank the one that's in there and look for a mfg name and number paying attention to the connector. If you don't know where to look for a replacement, post your info here and someone will point you to a replacement.

look30: You're so helpful. :rolleyes:

Maxtor the paperweight factory :)

Buy Seagate next time around , they have 5 (five) years warranty.

Wow, what a big help!

Anyway, now that Seagate has purchased Maxtor, they are still keeping the Maxtor warranties the same on Maxtor branded products.

And Seagate didn't have a simple, plug-in solution, which is what I was looking for at the time. The build-your-own solution was still in its infancy when I was looking to add the external drive July 2005, and I wasn't interested in being one of the guinea pigs back then.

So, anyone know how to take one of these apart without totally destroying it?

Get some tools and take it apart. It's not like you'll void your warranty. Fans are pretty much standard sizes. Yank the one that's in there and look for a mfg name and number paying attention to the connector. If you don't know where to look for a replacement, post your info here and someone will point you to a replacement.

look30: You're so helpful. :rolleyes:

Aaaahhhh, a long time trusted poster arrives...

Pepar, I tried taking it apart (a little). There are two small screws, one covered in tape to easily show tampering. I removed these, and a little plastic cover came off. I poked and prodded, and couldn't see anything past this, other than the two screws securing the fan to the case. The fan was still on the other side of a plate, so I'd have to remove the plate (the fan coming with it) and then separate the fan from the plate with above mentioned screws. I can't figure out how to remove the plate from the rest of the case. All else fails, I'm going to end up destroying this thing to figure it out. But if someone has any info, I'd like to keep it.

Aaaahhhh, a long time trusted poster arrives...

Pepar, I tried taking it apart (a little). There are two small screws, one covered in tape to easily show tampering. I removed these, and a little plastic cover came off. I poked and prodded, and couldn't see anything past this, other than the two screws securing the fan to the case. The fan was still on the other side of a plate, so I'd have to remove the plate (the fan coming with it) and then separate the fan from the plate with above mentioned screws. I can't figure out how to remove the plate from the rest of the case. All else fails, I'm going to end up destroying this thing to figure it out. But if someone has any info, I'd like to keep it.
I don't have one, but from the pictures the first place I would look to see what's holding it together would be on the bottom. Look for screws. If there are feet, look at their screws. It went together, it has to come apart.

2 buffers. One on the channel you're tuned to, and the other on the "back channel" -- the one that you're not tuned to or is being used to record something.

This can be easily demonstrated, and I used it all the time in the following manner (when you're not recording something):
1. Tune to some show on your main tuner.
2. Press swap.
3. Tune to something on the 2nd tuner.
4. Swap back to the original tuner. Watch for a while. Note that you can FF/REW/Pause, etc.
5. Swap again to the 2nd tuner. Note that the channel on the other tuner has been buffering the entire time that you were on the 1st tuner, and you can FF/REW/Pause this channel as well.
6. Swap back and see that the first channel was still buffering while you were watching the 2nd.

The 8300 has 2 tuners, which are always in operation, and both are always buffering simultaneously. You can swap between them at will with the "SWAP" button.

Mine doesn't work that way. The 'swap' button only works with the PIP feature, and even then swapping from one tuner to the other clears the buffer, and I can't rewind either show.

Why does it work for you and not for me?

Mine doesn't work that way. The 'swap' button only works with the PIP feature, and even then swapping from one tuner to the other clears the buffer, and I can't rewind either show.

Why does it work for you and not for me?Different software.

FWIW, Scott's directions apply to Passport software.

Oh boy, taking apart! I remember it took me weeks to figure out how to strip down a keyboard I wanted to clean-up; amazing the stuff that it attracts! Sometimes I wonder whop designs these things, it was 10 times more complicated than it ever needed to be.

The biggest trick I've seen in equipment disassembly is that all too frequently, there are screws that are hidden. In my keyboard's case, it was a totally useless metallic strip of tape that I "bored" through to get to the one screw that hung me up. One frequent trick is hiding screws under rubber feet that are kinda glued in place.It all involves a careful and close inspection of the case.

Mine doesn't work that way. The 'swap' button only works with the PIP feature, and even then swapping from one tuner to the other clears the buffer, and I can't rewind either show.

Why does it work for you and not for me?
I'm on Passport....

I'm on Passport....

OK, that makes sense. Thanks. Does the cable company determine the software? In other words, is there nothing I can do to make my 8300HD have the swap feature work like yours?

Also, to get back on topic, is there any way to know if an external drive will work before buying one and connecting it?

OK, that makes sense. Thanks. Does the cable company determine the software? In other words, is there nothing I can do to make my 8300HD have the swap feature work like yours?
Correct. In general, Time Warner provides Passport. Not sure what other cable companies provide.

Correct. In general, Time Warner provides Passport. Not sure what other cable companies provide.
That is JUST PLAIN WRONG! There are lots of TW systems with SARA - just because you are in NYC and TW has Passport there, does not mean that the rest of the country is the same! For example, downstate folks are alway forgetting that upstate NY exists - and in upstate NY the TW systems are mostly SARA. :rolleyes: (Sorry for the upstate/downstate rant - but it is election time)

The real deal is this: These cable systems were basically built by independent companies around one of two basic software systems. Once a system is built, and equipment is deployed in customer's homes, it is not easy to change. The large cable companies became large by buying up existing systems, and they have had to keep the software in place when they did so. As a result, these corporations have had a mixture of system software. There are now some efforts by the cable companies to create new unified user interface software that will work with the current system software. AT TW this is the Mystro project, and it will be rolling out first on Passport systems.

That is JUST PLAIN WRONG!
...which is why I said "in general", not "always".

...which is why I said "in general", not "always".It isn't even true "in general". "In general" it is mixed - and that is correct.

FWIW, Scott's directions apply to Passport software.

Oh boy, taking apart! I remember it took me weeks to figure out how to strip down a keyboard I wanted to clean-up; amazing the stuff that it attracts! Sometimes I wonder whop designs these things, it was 10 times more complicated than it ever needed to be.

The biggest trick I've seen in equipment disassembly is that all too frequently, there are screws that are hidden. In my keyboard's case, it was a totally useless metallic strip of tape that I "bored" through to get to the one screw that hung me up. One frequent trick is hiding screws under rubber feet that are kinda glued in place.It all involves a careful and close inspection of the case.

Yup they love to hide them under rubber feet etc u can allways break out the sawzall that will get it open for sure then use nice grey duct tape to put it back together again. :D

I remember seeing a quickview expander minus hdd on ebay awhile back the guy had a pic of it split open and to my surprise it uses a ide drive from what i remember. :cool:

Well, I tried taking apart the Quickview Expander again. No rubber feet on this thing, since it uses a stand.

Low and behold, after I removed the back plastic plate (two screws) and front plastic plate (pried off with butter knife), no screws to undo, other than the two holding the fan on the inside (as described earlier). I applied a little pressure to the back while holding the case, and it just slid through the case. Why didn't I think of that before?!? So, I removed the fan and hooked it back up to the 8300HD. Rebooted and the 8300HD recognized it. Works like a charm, albeit with no case right now. I'll just head down to Fry's and get a new fan.

On a side note, Maxtor replied a couple more times. They tried to convince me the drive was bad, which I explained that didn't appear to be the case, and to send it in for data recovery, which I explained was useless for a DVR drive. They basically left it as I should try to take it apart myseld (no instructions from them), and what have I got to lose. No more Maxtor for me...

bcoombs, someone mentioned they may use an IDE drive... can you confirm that as long as you have the thing apart?

BTW, IDE to SATA equipment does exist. There are modules to allow you to use IDE drives in systems that only have SATA connectors for internally mounted drives. Needless to say, you ain't getting the better bandwidth of SATA in this fashion... but you CAN use older IDE drives you have hanging around.

Great thread.... Long, but excellent. Appologies if this has been covered (I've read quite a bit of the posts here)..

It seems as thought most people who have sucessfully connected an external SATA hard drive to the SA 8300HD w/ Passport have been running software version 2.5.052. As Pepar's website illustrates, this gives an "SATA Status" selection on the diagnostic menu which shows "Authorized".

I am running Passport Ver 1.8.112 with Bright House Networks in Orlando, FL and do not have the "SATA Status" selection on the diag menu. I'm assuming this means I'm SOL regarding the addition of an external SATA HD. Has anyone been sucessful in adding a HD to the SA 8300HD under 1.8.112?

No external SATA for 1.8.112. In many ways, that rev is (IMO) more stable than 2.5.x. When we got upgraded, I found a lot more annoying issues with bugs. However, Passport's days are numbered. It will be replaced by a supposed unified OCAP enabled software, code name Mystro. Theoretically, it will replace both Passport and SARA. OCAP is a standard for enabling the cable provider to make more money by enabling them to have more diverse services to sell us.

bcoombs, someone mentioned they may use an IDE drive... can you confirm that as long as you have the thing apart?

BTW, IDE to SATA equipment does exist. There are modules to allow you to use IDE drives in systems that only have SATA connectors for internally mounted drives. Needless to say, you ain't getting the better bandwidth of SATA in this fashion... but you CAN use older IDE drives you have hanging around.

I can confirm that it is a Maxtor Diamondmax 10 PATA133 drive that is being used.

I can confirm that it is a Maxtor Diamondmax 10 PATA133 drive that is being used.
Well that just sucks. Another reason to DIY.

Time Warner in North Carolina says the SATA ports on its 8300HD's (Passport vers. 2.5.066) have been disabled, but when I check the diagnostics page on mine, it says under FEAT. AUTH:

SATA: YES (NO CHECK)

This cryptic "Yes (no check)" appears next to several items. Does this mean this port will work?

Time Warner in North Carolina says the SATA ports on its 8300HD's (Passport vers. 2.5.066) have been disabled, but when I check the diagnostics page on mine, it says under FEAT. AUTH:

SATA: YES (NO CHECK)

This cryptic "Yes (no check)" appears next to several items. Does this mean this port will work?
Earlier versions of Passport that do not mention SATA do not support it. However, the SATA port on 8300HD's with later versions that do have that page/info may not work either. It is my understanding that the cableco can turn support off if they so choose. The short - and really the only - answer is to try it.

After 2 months of recording on a Passport 2.5.066 powered 8300HD DVR, I loaded up the 1st external Western Digital 400GB SATA drive using the NexStar 3 External enclosure with both eSATA and USB2 connections.

I connected a 750GB Seagate external inside a Cavalry enclosure also with eSATA and USB2 connections this afternoon. The major difference between this enclosure and the NexStar 3 are:

1. Cavalry slightly larger
2. Cavalry has a vent in the front
3. Cavalry is quieter
4. Cavalry is cooler, maybe due to size and vent

After a reboot of the 8300HD DVR, the new 750GB Seagate records!

What is interesting is that the listing of programs on the internal hard drive, the 1st 400GB Western Digital and the new 750GB Seagate are all presented. If any programs on the 1st external drive is selected, the 8300HD simply prompts for the external drive to be connected.

Interesting.

Paul

It is my understanding that the cableco can turn support off if they so choose. The short - and really the only - answer is to try it.
I was afraid of that. Maybe I'll do that if I can find a store with a generous return policy!

How about exchanging the internal 160GB hard drive for a larger one? Anyone ever look inside the 8300?

How about exchanging the internal 160GB hard drive for a larger one? Anyone ever look inside the 8300?Do you own your 8300HD? If you're only renting from the cableco, opening the box to fool with the innards may expose you to hefty fees from your cableco when you turn the box back in.

For that reason, no one else on here has messed with the internal drive (or at least, no one has publicly admitted to doing so).

I was afraid of that. Maybe I'll do that if I can find a store with a generous return policy!

How about exchanging the internal 160GB hard drive for a larger one? Anyone ever look inside the 8300?
As jruhnke posted, there are legal issues with modifying a piece of gear that you are leasing. And it may be designed so that the cableco knows if it has been merely opened. There would possibly also be technical issues in that some of the files necessary for operation could be on the internal drive and would be missing if it was replaced. I would not have a clue about cloning the drive as the file system is foreign to a personal computer.

Stick with an external drive.

What is interesting is that the listing of programs on the internal hard drive, the 1st 400GB Western Digital and the new 750GB Seagate are all presented. If any programs on the 1st external drive is selected, the 8300HD simply prompts for the external drive to be connected.

Interesting.

Paul

Ha, there was a portion of some thread where I suggested someone who had the equipment might want to try this... essentially archiving recorded content on multiple external drives. So now you have recorded content on 2 separate eternal drives that had been used on one specific 8300, right? AND contents from both those externals is in the listing of recorded shows? AND you can choose (and more importantly play) recorded content from BOTH external drives?

This would be huge. Then again, given the nature of the half-assed "support" it could work for you and no one else.

This is exact it as you stated.

Whenever I select a program that is on the 1st external drive now disconnected, the 8300HD prompts to have that hard drive connected.
When any program from the internal drive or the connected (current) external drive is selected, it just plays as usual.

It has been over 2 days since I have the current Seagate 750GB drive connected. So far, so good.




Ha, there was a portion of some thread where I suggested someone who had the equipment might want to try this... essentially archiving recorded content on multiple external drives. So now you have recorded content on 2 separate eternal drives that had been used on one specific 8300, right? AND contents from both those externals is in the listing of recorded shows? AND you can choose (and more importantly play) recorded content from BOTH external drives?

This would be huge. Then again, given the nature of the half-assed "support" it could work for you and no one else.

This is exact it as you stated.

Whenever I select a program that is on the 1st external drive now disconnected, the 8300HD prompts to have that hard drive connected.
When any program from the internal drive or the connected (current) external drive is selected, it just plays as usual.

It has been over 2 days since I have the current Seagate 750GB drive connected. So far, so good.
Now all you need is an SATA switch. :)

I'd imagine though, at some point, the 8300HD would not be able to keep track of the recorded content. If ALL recording are listed regardless of which drive is attached, then that info must be stored in the 8300HD. And at some point, it will run out of that allocated space.

Now all you need is an SATA switch. :)

I'd imagine though, at some point, the 8300HD would not be able to keep track of the recorded content. If ALL recording are listed regardless of which drive is attached, then that info must be stored in the 8300HD. And at some point, it will run out of that allocated space.


In theory the 8300HD just keeps track of where it is so it just assigns each external drive a "letter" like d: or e: drive just like a computer. The 8300HD just keeps a directory - just like a computer. So it should be able to do it indefinitely.

In theory the 8300HD just keeps track of where it is so it just assigns each external drive a "letter" like d: or e: drive just like a computer. The 8300HD just keeps a directory - just like a computer. So it should be able to do it indefinitely.BUT, as has been discussed many times before by people who are quite knowledgable on the subject, the 8300HD keeps track of where things are in RAM. There is a finite amount of RAM, thus, at some point, it will run out of space. The 8300 is NOT A GENERAL PURPOSE COMPUTER - thus it "works" differently than a computer. :D

BUT, as has been discussed many times before by people who are quite knowledgable on the subject, the 8300HD keeps track of where things are in RAM. There is a finite amount of RAM, thus, at some point, it will run out of space. The 8300 is NOT A GENERAL PURPOSE COMPUTER - thus it "works" differently than a computer. :D
While it may or may not be the case that the 8300 stores its saved shows directory in RAM (and I'm not 100% convinced of this -- I personally suspect that the things that they keep in the "reserved" space on the internal drive [along with the trick play buffers] is the recorded program list, the future recordings list and the recurring programs list -- that would be a HECK of a lot of stuff to store in RAM eternally), the amount of RAM reserved for this function must already be quite sufficiently large so that someone with only a SD 8300 will be able to store hundreds of programs on it. Think about how little space an SD program takes up, and how much content the average user records. I mean, you could easily be talking over 200 distinct programs. You'd need 1.2TB to reach that level of HD programming. I think that it would be very hard for someone to overflow the number of slots they've made available for individual programs.

In theory the 8300HD just keeps track of where it is so it just assigns each external drive a "letter" like d: or e: drive just like a computer.
Where'd you get that theory?

The 8300HD just keeps a directory - just like a computer. So it should be able to do it indefinitely.
See above. Plus, have you ever heard of the 64k DOS memory limit, the 2GB FAT limit and 4GB Windows XP memory limit?

So I bought the case, the drive and the cable attached it to the explorer 8300 and I get an error message:

"The external recording device is not functioning properly
Check to make sure the power and data cables are plugged in properly"

I've tripled checked all the connections. I've tried different jumper settings. I still get the same error. I checked the error message online and I was only able to find the manual pdf and that wasn't any help.

Anyone have any suggestions? I

Thanks, Jim T

(I have Time Warner Albany, NY)

So I bought the case, the drive and the cable attached it to the explorer 8300 and I get an error message:

"The external recording device is not functioning properly
Check to make sure the power and data cables are plugged in properly"

I've tripled checked all the connections. I've tried different jumper settings. I still get the same error. I checked the error message online and I was only able to find the manual pdf and that wasn't any help.

Anyone have any suggestions? I

Thanks, Jim T

(I have Time Warner Albany, NY)
Passport or SARA?

Just received my Maxtor Quickview Expander 300GB.

Plugged in Hard Drive.
Connected eSata cable to the 8300.
Presto. Asked me to format drive.
Now have 400+GB of free storage

Just recorded a show (on DiscoveryHD) and works fine.

Cable is Time Warner New York City.
Sata shows "authorized" in diagnostics screen.

Pls note that the box recognized the drive only if I plugged in the hard drive *after* the 8300 was turned ON.
Best,

Where'd you get that theory?


See above. Plus, have you ever heard of the 64k DOS memory limit, the 2GB FAT limit and 4GB Windows XP memory limit?


Why do you think it has 64k dos or windows 4GB limit? My theory is that like a computer it just stores the information in some form of file structure. I'm not saying it is ACTUALLY a computer.

So I bought the case, the drive and the cable attached it to the explorer 8300 and I get an error message:

"The external recording device is not functioning properly
Check to make sure the power and data cables are plugged in properly"

I've tripled checked all the connections. I've tried different jumper settings. I still get the same error. I checked the error message online and I was only able to find the manual pdf and that wasn't any help.

Anyone have any suggestions? I

Thanks, Jim T

(I have Time Warner Albany, NY)
if on passport, unplug and replug the SATA cable and then change the channel. That's how I got it to recognize the drive.

My theory is that like a computer it just stores the information in some form of file structure.
Sooo, this is actually your theory, right, which is entirely something else from what is implied by the official-sounding "In theory the 8300HD . . . "?

Just received my Maxtor Quickview Expander 300GB.

Plugged in Hard Drive.
Connected eSata cable to the 8300.
Presto. Asked me to format drive.
Now have 400+GB of free storage

Just recorded a show (on DiscoveryHD) and works fine.

Cable is Time Warner New York City.
Sata shows "authorized" in diagnostics screen.

Pls note that the box recognized the drive only if I plugged in the hard drive *after* the 8300 was turned ON.
Best,
This is the proper order for Passport.

[QUOTE=jetb2]So I bought the case, the drive and the cable attached it to the explorer 8300 and I get an error message:

"The external recording device is not functioning properly
Check to make sure the power and data cables are plugged in properly"

I've tripled checked all the connections. I've tried different jumper settings. I still get the same error. I checked the error message online and I was only able to find the manual pdf and that wasn't any help. QUOTE]

Make sure the last thing to get power after you connect everything is the 8300. It took more than 1 try to get mine recognized at first. And its not enough to turn it off with the remote - physically unplug the DVR for 15-30 seconds the plug back in.



IF you can connect the hard drive to a computer - just to see if it is recognized that would eliminate loose connections or malfunctions on that end

Good luck

Sooo, this is actually your theory, right, which is entirely something else from what is implied by the official-sounding "In theory the 8300HD . . . "?


What? You have to make a big deal of everything :rolleyes:

What? You have to make a big deal of everything :rolleyes:
Just theories with zero supporting evidence.

Just theories with zero supporting evidence.


Where's your evidence? The fact is that the 8300HD can remember where the files are.

Where's your evidence? The fact is that the 8300HD can remember where the files are.Why don't you read back in the many pages of this thread where some of the inner workings of the SA8300 are discussed. They are posts made by veggas. There are several of us who have been with this thread from the beginning, and have managed to understand something about how this box works. :rolleyes:

Why don't you read back in the many pages of this thread where some of the inner workings of the SA8300 are discussed. They are posts made by veggas. There are several of us who have been with this thread from the beginning, and have managed to understand something about how this box works. :rolleyes:


yea ok..

Why don't you read back in the many pages of this thread where some of the inner workings of the SA8300 are discussed. They are posts made by veggas. There are several of us who have been with this thread from the beginning, and have managed to understand something about how this box works. :rolleyes:I agree that Vegggas has provided a great deal of insight into how this box works, and like many others I'm grateful that he's shared his thoughts with us.

However, it should be kept in mind that even Vegggas admits some of what he has posted has been little more than thoughtful speculation, based on some SA documentation plus his experience with similar equipment.

From post 1841 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7566660&&#post7566660): jruhnke, First a word of caution - I don't always KNOW exactly what I'm talking about, although I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once or twice... ;) My posts shouldn't be always accepted as pure fact, but usually detailed with enough facts to come to a logical conclusion or plausible sound theories. I have been wrong before and will be wrong again... I also sometimes enjoy several frosty beverages while reading AVS and continue writing long posts, but I digress... :D
...
All this is based on heavily speculated theory with some background facts and similar data structures with similar equipment and other commercial PPV and VOD systems that I work with.

vegggasI think it's accurate to say that we know a few things about how this box works, and we have some plausible working theories about a lot of the rest.

It's fair for folks to question where the information in this thread comes from, and how solid it is. (Even if you read every post in the thread, it's not always clear whether a poster is speculating or actually knows something for fact.)

In turn it's also fair for us to admit that much of the information in this thread is actually only educated speculation, and might not be 100% correct.

Jim

In turn it's also fair for us to admit that much of the information in this thread is actually only educated speculation, and might not be 100% correct.
Well, I think it's safe to say that we are sure that the 8300HD does not "just assign each external drive a "letter" like d: or e: drive just like a computer." Sheesh. :rolleyes:

Good point, Jim, but I think the thrust of Dave's comment was to educate oneself a little more before jumping into a fray with a lot of speculation. It seems that a 100 page thread dealing with SATA expansion would have already covered this type of info and it might have been more prudent to ask how it works vs just offering unsubstantiated speculation as if it were fact, some folks actually believe everything that's posted here. :)

The real problem though is how AVS works with these eccessively huge threads where most useful info is buried. I have no idea how someone new to the thread is supposed to "search" for the pertinent info and educate themselves. However, it did seem like the discussion quickly degraded to an argument vs learning from those who've been around the thread awhile and might actually know a bit more about the subject being discussed. That's not to say that just because someone has a lot of posts they are correct, but the number of posts should at least influence the tone of the discussion.

Just my $.03 worth.

Good point, Jim, but I think the thrust of Dave's comment was to educate oneself a little more before jumping into a fray with a lot of speculation.
...
The real problem though is how AVS works with these eccessively huge threads where most useful info is buried. I have no idea how someone new to the thread is supposed to "search" for the pertinent info and educate themselves.This really is a tough nut to crack. A while back, I downloaded this thread as a text file so I could go back and read some of the "history" before I started following it regularly. This thread was over ONE THOUSAND pages long in my text reader! It's probably not reasonable to throw that at a new person and say, "Here, go read this before you post."

However, it did seem like the discussion quickly degraded to an argument vs learning from those who've been around the thread awhile and might actually know a bit more about the subject being discussed.I concur. If it's not reasonable for the "veterans" to expect the new guys to read a thousand pages of history to come up to speed, it certainly *is* reasonable for the new guys to recognize those thousand pages of history exist, and that folks who've read a fair chunk of that history might know something the new guy doesn't.

It's now 4 days of active use and some 11 films on the second external hard drive, the Seagate 750GB external with Cavalry enclosure. We are seeing blocks and occasional artifacts on the premium HD channels like MAX-HD and Starz-HD. THis happens at all times with 750GB powered up and attached, even when it's not recording.

Upon inspecting some of the HD recordings over the last 48 hours, I see distortions like blocking and trouble with certain scenes with high contrast or fast action.

I stopped using the 750GB and loaded a 400GB Western Digital onto a 3rd enclosure, another NexStar 3 eSATA/USB2, the same as the 1st external experience.

After all this, the 8300HD now remembers the recordings from the 1st External, 400GB Western Digital with Nexstar3, the 2nd External, 750GB Seagate with Cavalry and the 3rd External, also 400GB Western Digital with NexStar3.

There had been minimal distortion since last night on the 3rd and most recent drive.

Maybe it's a problem with TWC over the last 48HR, but changing from 2nd to 3rd did stop a ton of it. We'll have to load the 400GB up with stuff before knowing if capacity has anything to do with the issues...

Paul

After all this, the 8300HD now remembers the recordings from the 1st External, 400GB Western Digital with Nexstar3, the 2nd External, 750GB Seagate with Cavalry and the 3rd External, also 400GB Western Digital with NexStar3.
Paul


Interesting looks like the 8300hd remembers exactly what each drive is storing. Sounds pretty computer like to me.

Just theories with zero supporting evidence.

Sorry my friend, you yourself, along with many others, have supplied more than enough "evidence." He made a statement that it kept track of stuff on multiple storage devices, likening it to the DOS drive letters. Drive letters are nothing more than volume identifiers. It's no theory, it's fact. It must keep volume information especially in light of the fact that we see that it keeps track of content on more than a single drive. You have an external drive, you say you can see and play content from both drives, ergo whether in RAM or not, a directory including volume identifier is kept.

Scott, I tend to agree that I find it highly doubtful the directory is "kept in RAM." But I also suspect there a terminology thing going on here; say RAM and we think of dynamic memory (it is widely accepted that "random access memory" is generally considered dynamic). Obviously, it isn't dynamic, but some form of nonvolatile memory. Then again, how many people refer to disk storage as "memory?" I suspect a lot of the "disagreements" come because some use terminology properly and others don't. Keeping a directory listing nonvolatile makes me think of a EEPROM. Which to me seems a dumb idea when you have disk space to use for that purpose.

Newyorker, you are correct, it IS a computer. It does not have any exposed APIs, so the assumption that it isn't general purpose is probably correct. It's also way too complex and upgradable to be called an embedded device.

Paul, I for one find your experiments to be of great service. Still, I'd almost bet you that someone else might not be able to re-create your exact experience (and I'm talking in the same area, with the same equipment). I think there whole software platform is a mess, so it wouldn't surprise me at all. I just wonder if their OCAP platform, Mystro, is better conceived, documented and delivered. STILL, it does provide us a glimmer at what may be going on in there!

Riverside, are you near Columbia U?....

I spoke to Jose in the HD tech support of TWC yesterday extensively. I got him through Yoghwati from Bon Watson's office.

Well, Jose knows about the firewire, DVR, external drive issues after we discussed about them for nearly 30 minutes.

I mentioned the irregularities of adding external drives. The hit and miss in the trick functions with an external. Why certain drives work better than others. Why firewire did not work with 8300HD with or without external. Jose said he will take back these issues and discuss them with SA and his boss. We'll see if this will make its way to Passport 3.5 or 4.0

Paul



....
Paul, I for one find your experiments to be of great service. Still, I'd almost bet you that someone else might not be able to re-create your exact experience (and I'm talking in the same area, with the same equipment). I think there whole software platform is a mess, so it wouldn't surprise me at all. I just wonder if their OCAP platform, Mystro, is better conceived, documented and delivered. STILL, it does provide us a glimmer at what may be going on in there!

It appears that the internal stores the data but not very user friendly as all it does is list chronologically all the titles. It will be up to us to make an index card and stick it to each external drive.

I am taking a few to get laminated today... (yes, very neat & geeky)


Paul



Interesting looks like the 8300hd remembers exactly what each drive is storing. Sounds pretty computer like to me.

I mentioned this awhile ago - and I'll bring it up again: This thread was started when only the external drive would only work with SARA. Since then, PASSPORT has added the capability (well sort of). Since much of the operation (like the installation procedure) is different it would make sense for there to be different threads. So would someone (with PASSPORT) please start a "8300HD/Passport External Drive" thread so that each can focus on the relevant system.

We'll see if this will make its way to Passport 3.5 or 4.0
...or causes them to turn off SATA support completely.

It's now 4 days of active use and some 11 films on the second external hard drive, the Seagate 750GB external with Cavalry enclosure. We are seeing blocks and occasional artifacts on the premium HD channels like MAX-HD and Starz-HD. THis happens at all times with 750GB powered up and attached, even when it's not recording.

Upon inspecting some of the HD recordings over the last 48 hours, I see distortions like blocking and trouble with certain scenes with high contrast or fast action.

I stopped using the 750GB and loaded a 400GB Western Digital onto a 3rd enclosure, another NexStar 3 eSATA/USB2, the same as the 1st external experience.

After all this, the 8300HD now remembers the recordings from the 1st External, 400GB Western Digital with Nexstar3, the 2nd External, 750GB Seagate with Cavalry and the 3rd External, also 400GB Western Digital with NexStar3.

There had been minimal distortion since last night on the 3rd and most recent drive.

Maybe it's a problem with TWC over the last 48HR, but changing from 2nd to 3rd did stop a ton of it. We'll have to load the 400GB up with stuff before knowing if capacity has anything to do with the issues...

Paul

I purchased a Cavalry 750gb external drive and would get the picture breakup about every three minutes and it drive me nuts so I stopped using it. It also seemed to cause problems with the 'trickplay' buffer. I decided to replace the internal drive with a 500gb Maxtor Diamondmax 11 and it works great. It is a little louder than the 160gb that was there. I have also put a 300gb Seagate 7200.8 internal drive in my other 8300hd and it works good and is very quiet. I have been using these for about a week and have had no problems.

Sorry my friend, you yourself, along with many others, have supplied more than enough "evidence." He made a statement that it kept track of stuff on multiple storage devices, likening it to the DOS drive letters. Drive letters are nothing more than volume identifiers. It's no theory, it's fact. It must keep volume information especially in light of the fact that we see that it keeps track of content on more than a single drive. You have an external drive, you say you can see and play content from both drives, ergo whether in RAM or not, a directory including volume identifier is kept.
How can you make the leap from attaching an external drive to assuming the 8300HD will accept and keep track of MULTIPLE external drives?

Thanks for confirmation on the Cavalry 750GB Seagate as we have 2 cases for there is trouble with the 8300HD.

The 3 External drives I have used so far had all been the Western Digital 7200RPM SATA
Have been using this model for 3 years now

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144423&ATT=22-144-423&CMP=OTC-pr1c3watch

Paul



I purchased a Cavalry 750gb external drive and would get the picture breakup about every three minutes and it drive me nuts so I stopped using it. It also seemed to cause problems with the 'trickplay' buffer. I decided to replace the internal drive with a 500gb Maxtor Diamondmax 11 and it works great. It is a little louder than the 160gb that was there. I have also put a 300gb Seagate 7200.8 internal drive in my other 8300hd and it works good and is very quiet. I have been using these for about a week and have had no problems.

I've had little or no trouble with my Seagate 750GB e-SATA drive for a few months, until last week. The drive started making noise (read/write head moving back annd forth to the spindle) and stalled playback on the last show.

I deleted some shows and movies, re-booted the drive and the SA8300HD andall was fine for a few days, then the drive just shut down completely. I am in th process of reformating it.

Before that, the drive worked flawlessly up until 70% full, then it started to exhibit the sputter/stutter anomolies mentioned prviously on this and other threads. I am starting to think it is a SARA issue with any volume above 300GB, as the problems seem to start happening once I exceed 300 GB by percentage, ie I have experience the problems with a 400 and 500 and now 750GB drive.

-gil

This really is a tough nut to crack. A while back, I downloaded this thread as a text file so I could go back and read some of the "history" before I started following it regularly. This thread was over ONE THOUSAND pages long in my text reader! It's probably not reasonable to throw that at a new person and say, "Here, go read this before you post."

I concur. If it's not reasonable for the "veterans" to expect the new guys to read a thousand pages of history to come up to speed, it certainly *is* reasonable for the new guys to recognize those thousand pages of history exist, and that folks who've read a fair chunk of that history might know something the new guy doesn't.
What came first - the long, unmanageable thread causing members to ask questions already answered or the repeated asking of questions that were already answered causing the long, unmanageable thread. IMO, it was the latter.

However, it is what it is and we are still here to help people. Reading all 3000 posts is in no way practical (though the truly diligent do it: jruhnke). However, it's poor forum etiquette to pop in and ask a question that's been answered on the SAME friggin' page, or to pop in with some wild-a** comment and then get defensive when asked what it's based on. Crikeys, most topics are (repeatedly) dealt with in a 3-5 page cycle. Is it too much to expect someone new to the thread to read the FIRST page and the last four? I don't think so.

I've had little or no trouble with my Seagate 750GB e-SATA drive for a few months, until last week. The drive started making noise (read/write head moving back annd forth to the spindle) and stalled playback on the last show.

I deleted some shows and movies, re-booted the drive and the SA8300HD andall was fine for a few days, then the drive just shut down completely. I am in th process of reformating it.

Before that, the drive worked flawlessly up until 70% full, then it started to exhibit the sputter/stutter anomolies mentioned prviously on this and other threads. I am starting to think it is a SARA issue with any volume above 300GB, as the problems seem to start happening once I exceed 300 GB by percentage, ie I have experience the problems with a 400 and 500 and now 750GB drive.
To me, that sounds like a hard drive problem, not an 8300HD one. You might be wasting your time reformatting it; try attaching it to a computer and running a disk utility. If S.M.A.R.T. is enabled, the computer itself may give you a warning on its health.

The "300GB" ceiling you're experiencing may very well relate to a mechanical issue, i.e. the r/w head snags when it gets to that radius on the drive.

How can you make the leap from attaching an external drive to assuming the 8300HD will accept and keep track of MULTIPLE external drives?


How can you not? Paul is doing it.