8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! [Text View] - Page 13

GilWave

11-07-06, 05:10 PM

The "300GB" ceiling you're experiencing may very well relate to a mechanical issue, i.e. the r/w head snags when it gets to that radius on the drive.But why would it happpen on 400GB, 500GB, and 750GB drives? I've had and used all three.

I have 4 8300HDs in the house - 2 in the HT, 1 in the guest room, and one in my bedroom. I had a 500GB Quad G-Tech drive in the bedroom, same problem. That eventually failed, I replaced it with a Glyph 400GB eSata Drive, so far so good but got the sputter/stutter problem again at 75% full (300GB of 400GB)

I had the 750GB Seagate in a Glyph e-SATA enclosure on the main input in the HT. Everything was fine until I exceeded 70% on that drive (525GB of 750GB)

I have a 500GB quad-interface Glyph drive on the secondary 8300HD in my HT - no problems to date, but it typically stays around 60 - 65% full (around 300GB). Same with the one in the guest room.

I have other 400GB units out in the field with associates, and they report the same digital stutter issues above 75%, so I'm starting to think that the current rev of SARA does not work well above 300GB, which is what Maxtor has been saying since day o9ne wiith their QuickView Drives that top out at 300GB. They claim that drives >300GB are not stable with 8300HD running SARA.

I am surprised to read that someone has hacked the internal drive on the 8300HD - I was told that the HDCP in SARA wouldn't allowthe primary drive to be "upgraded" in the field.

I am burning through 750GB of space due to my families HD veiwing preferences, so I would love to have a 500GB internal and a 500 - 750 GB eSATA to keep from hitting more than 75% and still have all the HD shows saved for a season.

-gil

Paul Chiu

11-07-06, 05:59 PM

Gil,

I did not wait long before ordering the Seagate 750GB as I know I can use it for computer backup if it didn't perform with the 8300HD.

I did try to format the drive after the initial glitches but it started immediately upon the second and third handshakes with the 8300HD, so I gave up and went back to the 400GB SATAs. Since the 750GB Seagate has pretty much the same specs; 7200RPM, 16MB buffer, etc, I wonder if the firmware from a Seagate to a Western Digital may be the reason.

The only real requirement on Page 16 of the SA 8300HD Instuctions Guide was for a 7200RPM drive. I could not find anything on SA's website either...

Paul

I've had little or no trouble with my Seagate 750GB e-SATA drive for a few months, until last week. The drive started making noise (read/write head moving back annd forth to the spindle) and stalled playback on the last show.

I deleted some shows and movies, re-booted the drive and the SA8300HD andall was fine for a few days, then the drive just shut down completely. I am in th process of reformating it.

Before that, the drive worked flawlessly up until 70% full, then it started to exhibit the sputter/stutter anomolies mentioned prviously on this and other threads. I am starting to think it is a SARA issue with any volume above 300GB, as the problems seem to start happening once I exceed 300 GB by percentage, ie I have experience the problems with a 400 and 500 and now 750GB drive.

-gil

Paul Chiu

11-07-06, 06:01 PM

The 8300HD I have has a 160GB Western Digital inside. It's a 7200RPM drive.

Paul

Paul what brand is the hard drive in your 8300HD?

pepar

11-07-06, 06:01 PM

But why would it happpen on 400GB, 500GB, and 750GB drives? I've had and used all three.l
Oooops, I missed that. :o

But then if they all got noisy and failed, that doesn't sound like an 8300hd issue. Odd, though, that three would go the same way. Too much heat?

Paul Chiu

11-07-06, 06:04 PM

Gil,

I too recognize a tad of stuttering after my 400GB WD became nearly full. All the stored HD stuff did play back perfectly. It was the LIVE events that started to stutter when the almost full 400GB WD was attached.

The 750GB made things stutter within minutes of handshake. This was when I had reformatted the 750GB Seagate.

Paul

........e sputter/stutter problem again at 75% full (300GB of 400GB)

I had the 750GB Seagate in a Glyph e-SATA enclosure on the main input in the HT. Everything was fine until I exceeded 70% on that drive (525GB of 750GB)

I have a 500GB quad-interface Glyph drive on the secondary 8300HD in my HT - no problems to date, but it typically stays around 60 - 65% full (around 300GB). Same with the one in the guest room.
........-gil

Newyorker

11-07-06, 06:09 PM

The 8300HD I have has a 160GB Western Digital inside. It's a 7200RPM drive.

Paul

Could it be that the 8300HD works better with the same brand in has internally? Mine has a maxtor drive and it has been problem free with the my external maxtor drive. Also there seems to be less trouble with people using drives that are smaller.

pepar

11-07-06, 06:09 PM

FWIW, after this weekend's Star Wars marathon my 500GB external drive will be very close to full. So far I've had only a small number of glitches in a few movies. I re-record them and those recordings usually have less glitches. Once the second try had more glitches, in which case the third try resulted in one worth keeping. None if the movies I've recorded are completely glitch-free, but then I occasionally see glitches in live programing.

Passport 2.5.066

Paul Chiu

11-07-06, 06:29 PM

This could be as I had

1. 1st External was WD 400GB SATA now nearly full
Had detached this and successfully re-attached and played recordings stored
near the beginning as well as more recent ones. (if that matters any...)

2. 2nd was a Seagate. Problems within a dozen recordings

3. 3rd and 4th now also WD 400GB SATAs. So far so good.
Real test will be the Star Wars Marathon Friday into Saturday afternoon.

So, maybe the same brand of drives, having the same firmware, helps.

Paul

Could it be that the 8300HD works better with the same brand in has internally? Mine has a maxtor drive and it has been problem free with the my external maxtor drive. Also there seems to be less trouble with people using drives that are smaller.

pepar

11-07-06, 07:17 PM

So, maybe the same brand of drives, having the same firmware, helps.
Good luck on the SW marathon, Paul. I think the same brand of drives thing is probably an urban legend.

GilWave

11-07-06, 07:44 PM

I moved the SA8300HD and 750GB e-SATA up to the bedroom, after leaving them unplugged all weekend.

Just for the halibut, I did a controlled drop of the drive unit from a height of 2 feet.

Powered up the drive first - no noises, no clicks - then powered up the 8300HD and let it boot. It recognized the external drive as it should, I hit Exit on the remote and everything came up normally.

All my recorded content was intact, and is now working again. Will keep an eye on it this week while it records more HD content.

-gil

Paul Chiu

11-07-06, 09:22 PM

YOU DID WHAT?

......Just for the halibut, I did a controlled drop of the drive unit from a height of 2 feet.
......
-gil

Paul Chiu

11-07-06, 09:25 PM

pepar

11-07-06, 09:46 PM

We are planning to have a party with perhaps 3 couples and their children to try watching all 6 non-stop on one of the 3 screens in the house. I think the kids will make it through with little trouble...
I'll start my recording of the six episodes starting at midnight Sat morning and start watching sequentially mid-morning Sat to check for glitches. If I find any that I deem unwatchable, I'll schedule another recording of that episode the next time around - and then immediately watch again re-recording as necessary.

No kids during my watchathon. Maybe some Makers Mark though.

Blue 911

11-07-06, 11:08 PM

Time Warner in North Carolina says the SATA ports on its 8300HD's (Passport vers. 2.5.066) have been disabled, but when I check the diagnostics page on mine, it says under FEAT. AUTH:

SATA: YES (NO CHECK)

This cryptic "Yes (no check)" appears next to several items. Does this mean this port will work?
Just to follow up on this post for those residing in North Carolina. My initial inquiry to Time Warner resulted in this standard reply:

"The DVR’S provided by Time Warner Cable are unable to support any external equipment such as SATA hard drives, I-Pods, and camera’s."

After correcting them on this point with respect to hard drives and asking them why they would want to disable this feature, I amazingly received this reply today:

"This port has recently been enabled, but is not supported by Time Warner Cable. If you choose to use this port, contacting the manufacture will be required."

I guess they just didn't want to have to deal with tech support of this feature. But, hey, with the collective wisdom of this forum, who needs TW's tech support?

I'm ordering the new LaCie 320 GB (http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10809) drive ($180). Is this a good choice?

skanter1

11-07-06, 11:17 PM

Just installed Seagate Barracuda 360GB into Rosewill case, hooked up to SA 8300HD -- it works! I now have 426.2 GB capacity! The case is a handsome black aluminum, and the drive is silent, fan very quiet too. One can turn the fan off if not needed. This is a great deal for $120.

The buffer, as expected, is lost. But I can now record HD movies to my heart's content without worrying.

jruhnke

11-08-06, 12:29 AM

But why would it happpen on 400GB, 500GB, and 750GB drives? I've had and used all three.

...I replaced it with a Glyph 400GB eSata Drive, so far so good but got the sputter/stutter problem again at 75% full (300GB of 400GB)

I had the 750GB Seagate in a Glyph e-SATA enclosure on the main input in the HT. Everything was fine until I exceeded 70% on that drive (525GB of 750GB)

I have a 500GB quad-interface Glyph drive on the secondary 8300HD in my HT - no problems to date, but it typically stays around 60 - 65% full (around 300GB). Same with the one in the guest room.

I have other 400GB units out in the field with associates, and they report the same digital stutter issues above 75%..Does the problem go away if enough recorded material is deleted to drop the drive back down to some "comfortable" capacity (say, well below 300GB used)? Or is the problem persistent, once it begins? (I.e., even after freeing up lots of space again, the problem still occurs.)

GilWave

11-08-06, 07:22 AM

Does the problem go away if enough recorded material is deleted to drop the drive back down to some "comfortable" capacity (say, well below 300GB used)? Or is the problem persistent, once it begins? (I.e., even after freeing up lots of space again, the problem still occurs.)Good question. The answer is yes. Also, the stutter/sputter issue was never in the same place on playback when the drive was full, so I knew the anamoly was not on the recording itself, but on the playback.

YOU DID WHAT?A controlled drop. I've been making computers for audio production for 10 years, and every once and a while you need to drop a stuck hard drive to unstick it. Sometimes freezing it for 24-48 hours does the trick, at least long enough to back up data or off-load content.

Riverside_Guy

11-08-06, 11:55 AM

Riverside, are you near Columbia U?....

Yup, 'bout 12 blocks south.

Big question in my mind is will they pay ANY attention to passport with Mystro in their sites? What we seem to know is that Mystro has had some deployments, so it's more than marketing-speak. What we seem to have no clue on is even a vague idea of when. Like I've said, I think SI and maybe a few 'hoods in Queens might get it 3 months or so in advance of a citywide rollout.

Riverside_Guy

11-08-06, 11:59 AM

Riverside_Guy

11-08-06, 12:02 PM

...or causes them to turn off SATA support completely.

Actually, a little pessimism is probably healthy for all of us! Kinda keeps thing a tad better balanced,

pepar

11-08-06, 12:09 PM

Riverside_Guy

11-08-06, 12:17 PM

How can you make the leap from attaching an external drive to assuming the 8300HD will accept and keep track of MULTIPLE external drives?

Yes, it is a sort of an act of faith... I believe what Paul Chiu says he's seen with his own eyes. Indeed, a lot of our collective experience comes from what folks post here (I took your saying that you saw a better picture with an upconverting DVD player the same way I took Paul's specific information). Obviously, there's a lens associated with that; in that "we" would discount the "raving lunatic" type of posts. We DO seem to not attract this type near as much as other HD focused forums.

Part of my "lens" is many years managing software development. As such, it isn't near as much a leap to think it MAY be able to manage this. Like I tried to explain, the "SATA support" very much involves dealing with a new "factor, data item" which is a volume indicator. It sure CAN be further coded to only deal with a single drive, but I also know from developers perspective this is a real alpha level effort, so knowing it's as incomplete as it is, I can have a lot of confidence that they never really got around to doing something like writing code to specifically only allow one external device.

Riverside_Guy

11-08-06, 12:29 PM

Gil,

I too recognize a tad of stuttering after my 400GB WD became nearly full. All the stored HD stuff did play back perfectly. It was the LIVE events that started to stutter when the almost full 400GB WD was attached.

The 750GB made things stutter within minutes of handshake. This was when I had reformatted the 750GB Seagate.

Paul

Not so sure I'd be that quick to put "stuttering" on the use of an external drive; I've sure as hell seen this occasionally (and we're not talking once or twice i.e. rarely) on a totally stock 8300 with no external drive.

As for LIVE, my educated guess is that we never see anything really live, as in directly from the wire. I think we are always seeing the output FROM the HD. Oh, I just thought of a possible experiment that might address this, I'll run it tonight and see what I see.

pepar

11-08-06, 12:33 PM

I mentioned this awhile ago - and I'll bring it up again: This thread was started when only the external drive would only work with SARA. Since then, PASSPORT has added the capability (well sort of). Since much of the operation (like the installation procedure) is different it would make sense for there to be different threads. So would someone (with PASSPORT) please start a "8300HD/Passport External Drive" thread so that each can focus on the relevant system.

I think part of the issue is that there already is a lot of Passport users making posts here already, so there's a bit if user experience noted in this thread.

Would a mod consider spending some time to move them into a new thread?
I certainly respect Dave's opinion and his experience as exhibited on this thread, but I need to (at least mildly) disagree on this one. While the circumstances have changed with Passport vis-a-vis SATA "support," I believe the thread's title would continue to attract the attention of members attaching an external drive to the 8300HD and another thread - "8300HD, Passport and External SATA?" may cause confusion. The main difference in the procedure at issue seems to be the order of powering up and attaching. Similarities are the hardware solutions, off-the-shelf or DIY. Troubleshooting the hardware is the same for both (I think) as well.

Admittedly, there is a certain frustration level amongst the veterans of this thread in dealing with the repeated questions on topics already - and recently - dealt with, but that is common to all long threads. And perhaps splitting out the Passporters from the SARAites would reduce the thread's growth rate, but I don't think that outweighs the other "pros" I mentioned.

Just my $.01.

pepar

11-08-06, 12:34 PM

Yes, it is a sort of an act of faith... I believe what Paul Chiu says he's seen with his own eyes.
But it's not really working for Paul, is it? Isn't the jury still out with him? Isn't he still in the "beta" test stage?

Riverside_Guy

11-08-06, 12:37 PM

A controlled drop. I've been making computers for audio production for 10 years, and every once and a while you need to drop a stuck hard drive to unstick it. Sometimes freezing it for 24-48 hours does the trick, at least long enough to back up data or off-load content.

Wow, I haven't heard any talk of stiction in many, many years! I remember when it was a real topic in HDs... but it seemed to totally die out so I figured the manufacturers tweaked the engineering to decrease it's likelihood.

Hey, as an old HD pro, remember the very first Barracuda's? Sunny side up eggs in 90 seconds...

GilWave

11-08-06, 12:43 PM

Hey, as an old HD pro, remember the very first Barracuda's? Sunny side up eggs in 90 seconds...Hotter than hell and twice as painful!

Riverside_Guy

11-08-06, 12:51 PM

But it's not really working for Paul, is it? Isn't the jury still out with him? Isn't he still in the "beta" test stage?

I think he said it was a 750G drive and he went back to a 400 and things smoothed out a tad. My impression overall is that while we have a few folks who seemingly don't have issues with large drives (none of them ever said how full they had their drives) we have a number of reports of issues.

BTW, let us not forget that more than one computer has had issues with drives over a certain size. M$ had oodles of issues, even Macs did ('bout 6 years ago there was a hardware issue with firmware that used a older addressing scheme that precluded accessing [reading or writing] anything over 128G, it worked fine up to that limit than just didn't work with the additional space). AND there was an OS issue with the size of a single file that was an issue for quite a while before they fixed it in the OS.

So while this issue was well understood many years ago, it actually doesn't surprise me there are issues here; like I've expressed many times, I am surprised at how half-assed and flaky this software is.

I tell ya, I'd love to get my hands on the source and let the guys at ars tear into it to see WTF is going on in there!

GilWave

11-08-06, 01:32 PM

Whenever I have the stutter/jitter/blocks/sputter during a live broadcast or pay-per-view, I call the cable company (TKR/Optimum) and they tell me it's a bandwidth issue.

They send a guy out and sure enough, he finds a short-cut that one of the installers did when a neighbor down the street orders service with HD. Typically they do a patch-in that lowers the voltage sufficient to decrease performance down the line, but not enough to kill the signal.

So I am making an assumption that the digital anamolies I see in recorded content on playback, since a) they are not in the same place on successive viewings and b) they only occur when the drive goes over a certain amount full, that it is related to the DVR software's ability to handle de-compressing HDCP-encoded MPEG4 when there is too much data on the drive to read from. It may be the equivilent of fragmentation on the drive, as was once a problem in PCs and Macs.

There is no "defrag" utility in SARA or I would try that first. I assume that SARA does not write to the disks in a linear fashion.

CAVEAT: These are just my assumptions based on my limited knowledge of how data devices work, please do not atack me for postiting them. If you have additional theories or assumptions of your own, I'd love to hear them.

-gil

davehancock

11-08-06, 02:32 PM

I certainly respect Dave's opinion and his experience as exhibited on this thread, but I need to (at least mildly) disagree on this one. While the circumstances have changed with Passport vis-a-vis SATA "support," I believe the thread's title would continue to attract the attention of members attaching an external drive to the 8300HD and another thread - "8300HD, Passport and External SATA?" may cause confusion. The main difference in the procedure at issue seems to be the order of powering up and attaching. Similarities are the hardware solutions, off-the-shelf or DIY. Troubleshooting the hardware is the same for both (I think) as well.

Admittedly, there is a certain frustration level amongst the veterans of this thread in dealing with the repeated questions on topics already - and recently - dealt with, but that is common to all long threads. And perhaps splitting out the Passporters from the SARAites would reduce the thread's growth rate, but I don't think that outweighs the other "pros" I mentioned.

Just my $.01.My feeling is that having both is fine IF EVERYONE POSTING here CLEARLY STATES WHAT OS THEY ARE ON. Some people seem to think that the only OS around is Passport and automatically assume that everyone else has it too. :rolleyes:

BTW: I do also do not understand why people also do not put their location in their profile. :mad:

pepar

11-08-06, 03:31 PM

My feeling is that having both is fine IF EVERYONE POSTING here CLEARLY STATES WHAT OS THEY ARE ON. Some people seem to think that the only OS around is Passport and automatically assume that everyone else has it too. :rolleyes:

BTW: I do also do not understand why people also do not put their location in their profile. :mad:
I just *know* you've got that on a macro. :)

I don't think anyone is assuming anything. I think they are ignorant (in the kindest sense) about their gear. Many new posters here don't have a clue that their boxes have software, let alone know what it is. And I'd bet that some of those folks have never visited their profiles and have only the initial information in it from when they registered.

We can't get people to read the first page, search the thread and/or honor basic forum etiquette, so how the dickens would we get your sensible suggestion across to them?

Passport 2.5.066 York PA Comcast :)

redjr

11-08-06, 03:41 PM

...And I'd bet that some of those folks have never visited their profiles and have only the initial information in it from when they registered.

I think many people just prefer to keep as much personal information as possible 'off the net' - including their forum profile location.

redjr...

pepar

11-08-06, 03:43 PM

I think many people just prefer to keep as much personal information as possible 'off the net' - including their forum profile location.

redjr...
Yes, good point. Very good point. I'm thinking of disguising my feet.

Basheer

11-08-06, 03:48 PM

pepar

11-08-06, 03:51 PM

Hi all,

I have what probably is a stupid question, but I have read about 30 of the pages in this thread and I am confused about two things.

1. What is SARA vs Passport......I have an SATA port at the back of my Rogers 8300HD PVR

2. Given the 3000 + posts of experience in this thread, what external hardrive would you recommend?

I am willing to purchase a 160GB plus drive and ideally would like a bigger external drive...but I've seen too many posts about issues at the greater than 300GB size.

Thanks!
Basheer
Those are not stupid questions at all, Basheer, and they illustrate my previous point.

Passport and SARA are the two different software/program guides for this box. When you view the upcoming programs, do you see either name?

If you yank the power cord and then plug it back in and turn on the box, what do you see?

KingMax

11-08-06, 04:26 PM

Hi there.

I've been lurking around this and similar threads for a couple weeks now, trying to get a handle on the eHDD expansions people are doing with their 8300HD DVRs.

I was hoping not to have to solicit opinions and clutter the thread with a question that has been asked a dozen times already, but...

i am looking at getting a combo deal at newegg that includes these 2 items: (sorry, wont let me do URLs yet, so please cut and paste if you'd like to help out...

newegg-dot-com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822144701

and

newegg-dot-com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817173041

the reason I am asking for opinions/advice is that on that terrific summary post there are cables listed as needed with a very similar combo set up:

"Rosewill RX343-S SLV 3.5" eSATA and USB 2.0 External Enclosure
Seagate Barracuda ST3320620AS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA Drive
Quality Cables SS-1ESES eSATA to eSATA Cable (1m - 3ft.)"

here is the link for the cables:

satacables-dot-com/html/esata-external-esata-shielded-.html

do i need to purchase these cables seperately, or will the included "eSATA-eSATA Cable" and "SATA-eSATA + PC Bracket Cable" be enough?

also, how can i tell if the eSATA connection runs directly or not (which i have read as being a concern to some)

thank you very much!

max

pepar

11-08-06, 04:40 PM

Hi there.

I've been lurking around this and similar threads for a couple weeks now, trying to get a handle on the eHDD expansions people are doing with their 8300HD DVRs.

I was hoping not to have to solicit opinions and clutter the thread with a question that has been asked a dozen times already, but...
:)

i am looking at getting a combo deal at newegg that includes these 2 items: (sorry, wont let me do URLs yet, so please cut and paste if you'd like to help out...

the reason I am asking for opinions/advice is that on that terrific summary post there are cables listed as needed with a very similar combo set up:

"Rosewill RX343-S SLV 3.5" eSATA and USB 2.0 External Enclosure
Seagate Barracuda ST3320620AS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA Drive
Quality Cables SS-1ESES eSATA to eSATA Cable (1m - 3ft.)"

here is the link for the cables:

satacables-dot-com/html/esata-external-esata-shielded-.html

do i need to purchase these cables seperately, or will the included "eSATA-eSATA Cable" and "SATA-eSATA + PC Bracket Cable" be enough?
The included cables are what you need.

also, how can i tell if the eSATA connection runs directly or not (which i have read as being a concern to some)
Go to the manufacturer's website and research the item. If you cannot find that info, call them.

KingMax

11-08-06, 04:57 PM

thanks, pepar.

called Rosewill and sure enough, the drive will run through the enclosure circuitry. makes sense since it has USB, too-- but in case this doesn't work i can use it for my mac.

pepar

11-08-06, 11:33 PM

thanks, pepar.

called Rosewill and sure enough, the drive will run through the enclosure circuitry. makes sense since it has USB, too-- but in case this doesn't work i can use it for my mac.
I'm one of those "concerned" about circuitry in the signal path of the SATA drive, but admittedly I am a tweak going for, perhaps, a more elegant solution with a performance advantage that goes un-realized. If/when you get this working, record a hi-def program and then watch it while recording TWO hi-def programs at the same time. And then watch both of them. Three simultaneous hi-def streams - one being read and two being written - is pretty much the most work the DVR will ever be called upon to do. If you get no stuttering on any of the programs, your rig is good to go, circuitry or no circuitry.

Jason F

11-09-06, 12:51 AM

Can I use a SciAtl8300HD to simply be my off-air tuner? I don't want to upgrade my DishNetwork to HD for various reasons, and Atlanta has plenty off off-air HDTV available. I think all I'd need is the tuner (my Sony KV-32H600 is HD-ready, so the 8300HD would work as my tuner, right?), and an antenna (I've got a call in to a loca installer for a quote on gear + installation).

Am I correct in thinking that I can run this setup alongside my DishNetwork 510DVR? I think I could keep running the Dish DVR in Video1, and put the 8300HD in to the DVI or Component ports on the back of my Sony.

I'm VERY new to all this HD stuff... I just bought the TV off my old roommate because he was moving to New Zealand and didn't want to take it with him- so he sold it to me for a song! Otherwise the wife never would have said yes to an HD-ready tv! :)

Thanks everyone!

dfennig

11-09-06, 12:56 AM

So I just got my 8300HD and the eSATA drive setup and I'm already having issues. Using TWC and a Passport box. External enclosure is a Nexstar 3 with a WD 250GB 16MB hard drive. I plugged it into a powered on 8300HD (wrong I now realize), but anyways, it connected and formatted just fine, and appeared to be working. I leave for the night and come back to watch Lost, which should have recorded on the then empty external. I get errors when I try to playback the show, along the line of the file not being there.

I unplug everything, power up the drive, then the 8300, as the manual suggested. Still nothing on the programs that recorded earlier, so I delete those. Try recording something else, and after a few minutes I get the "Drive has been disconnected" error, and then a message saying I need to reboot. I do so, same error a few minutes after reboot. Any thoughts?

jruhnke

11-09-06, 01:06 AM

Can I use a SciAtl8300HD to simply be my off-air tuner?Nope, sorry. The 8300HD only works with cable broadcasts, not over-the-air broadcasts.

Jason F

11-09-06, 07:38 AM

Nope, sorry. The 8300HD only works with cable broadcasts, not over-the-air broadcasts.

Dang.... anybody know of a unit similar to the 8300HD that would work for my aforementioned setup/situation?

Thanks for the help!

mbrennan5

11-09-06, 07:44 AM

AFAIK, cable providers have stayed away from boxes that allow OTA.

jruhnke

11-09-06, 07:57 AM

Dang.... anybody know of a unit similar to the 8300HD that would work for my aforementioned setup/situation?

Thanks for the help!There's always the Tivo Series 3 (http://www.tivo.com/2.0.3hdDvr.features.asp), if you're willing to pony up the $$$. It's not compatible with your satellite signals, though, so it'd only be useful for OTA recording.

pepar

11-09-06, 09:50 AM

Paul Chiu

11-09-06, 10:02 AM

You! 12 Blocks south of Morningside Campus Dude is Right!

My single experience with a Cavalry 750GB Seagate should not in any way dictate that the 8300HD DVR cannot work with a 750GB drive. I could have a faulty drive. Until I get a few more 750GB or larger drives (I am sure that will come...), we have just this ONE sample.

So far though, I have had good luck with now 4 Western Digital 400GB SATA drives and NexStar 3 eSATA/USB2 enclosures. The enclosures do get very warm on 24/7 use.

Paul

I think he said it was a 750G drive and he went back to a 400 and things smoothed out a tad. My impression overall is that while we have a few folks who seemingly don't have issues with large drives (none of them ever said how full they had their drives) we have a number of reports of issues.

BTW, let us not forget that more than one computer has had issues with drives over a certain size. M$ had oodles of issues, even Macs did ('bout 6 years ago there was a hardware issue with firmware that used a older addressing scheme that precluded accessing [reading or writing] anything over 128G, it worked fine up to that limit than just didn't work with the additional space). AND there was an OS issue with the size of a single file that was an issue for quite a while before they fixed it in the OS.

So while this issue was well understood many years ago, it actually doesn't surprise me there are issues here; like I've expressed many times, I am surprised at how half-assed and flaky this software is.

I tell ya, I'd love to get my hands on the source and let the guys at ars tear into it to see WTF is going on in there!

Riverside_Guy

11-09-06, 11:11 AM

Issues specific to a single HD can at times be difficult to quantify. One has to really adopt a real troubleshooting approach where you try and eliminate various things. Example... I have 2 drives in a case that I had set as a stripped RAID. I got the combined thing about half way full and I seemed unable to write any more data. Oh, FW was the interface. So I tried concatenated, still an issue. Then as 2 separate drives, now I'm getting somewhere, one drives fills up just fine but the second one seems to barf.

But it isn't a typical drive failure, the thing still mounts. I can still initialize it. My overall experience says that there STILL might be other factors, so the next thing to test is the interface (like swap the internal cables around).

Anyway, the point is that only with a careful set of "tests" can one narrow down a real reason or cause. If I swap the interface around and the same drive exhibits the same kind of behavior, it probably is the drive. Oddly enough, despite having gone through a LOT of drives in my day, I really haven't seen one flak out exactly like this.

Back to the real topic, the fact that one CAN take an external drive one intends to use with a 8300 and moving it to the computer sure will allow one to test various aspects of the drive itself. One caution is that if you use the USB port to test it, you MIGHT see issues that are specific to the USB interface and not specific to the drive itself. Long ago I saw the writing on the wall and have had 4 external eSATA ports on my computer!

One other things, while I'm a big fan of privacy, I don't think I'm giving anything up by saying my location. I obviously use a nick (and not even that clever of one, guess what I live near?) and do NOT use an e-mail address (that you guys can't see anyway) that points to my domain. And as we know, location is a critical data point in being able to respond to questions. A month or so after I joined I also figured out that I should indicate other significant details, so my display, the software and the version are all part of my "signature" so I shouldn't have to always spell out what I'm using. Actually, to lessen confusion further, I'll add my STB to my sig...

scott_bernstein

11-09-06, 11:40 AM

dfennig

11-09-06, 11:44 AM

At this point I agree with checking the drive for errors. It was a refurb I got off of woot, so that might be an indicator.

On the box side, I'm running Passport 2.5.066. SATA (No Check) is enabled in the features. Errors on the SATA screen log I have seen: "Drive Unplugged" and "Drive Failed".

davehancock

11-09-06, 12:34 PM

AFAIK, cable providers have stayed away from boxes that allow OTA.It's not so much an intention to "stay away", but that OTA reception requires completely different electronics:
1) Modulation scheme on cable is QAM vs 8VSB on OTA.
2) Signal levels are quite different. OTA is lower.

Costs would be higher - if cable were to include OTA capability should cable raise the rates for everyone?

As someone said, your only option is the Series3 TiVo (and that is not an entirely satisfactory option either).

pepar

11-09-06, 12:37 PM

My SATA drive has a jumper that allows me to select a transfer speed of either 1.5Gbps or 3.0Gbps for backwards compatiblity older SATA interfaces.

By default it was set to 1.5Gbps, and it's working fine at that speed.

Has anyone experimented with using the 3.0Gbps setting? Will it work with an 8300HD?

Scott
The 8300HD is an "SATA I" device, i.e. 1.5Gbps. You would not want to lock it at 3.0, but if there's a "auto" setting, it would still need to negociate to the 1.5 speed. In short, leave it at 1.5.

pepar

11-09-06, 12:38 PM

istores

11-09-06, 01:26 PM

scott_bernstein

11-09-06, 02:45 PM

The 8300HD is an "SATA I" device, i.e. 1.5Gbps. You would not want to lock it at 3.0, but if there's a "auto" setting, it would still need to negociate to the 1.5 speed. In short, leave it at 1.5.
Thanks. This is pretty much what I figured, but just wanted to verify my hunches.

Scott

skanter1

11-09-06, 03:57 PM

pepar

11-09-06, 04:05 PM

skanter1

11-09-06, 04:13 PM

Then stop wondering! :)

Hey, scientific/intellectual curiosity is still in effect, even when something works!

scott_bernstein

11-09-06, 04:17 PM

I noticed that my Seagate 360GB/Rosewill combo is always flashing it's red light meaning that it's reading or writing. I assume that, while the buffer doesn't work, the drive is always buffering a few second while the 8300 is on? Any other ideas what the drive is doing, and is there a way to get it to stop continual read/write?

In any case, operation has been flawless so far...
If you are on Passport, you can do the following (I posted about this last week):
1. Tune to a VOD channel (say, 1000 on my system)
2. Press "swap"
3. Tune to a DIFFERENT VOD channel (say, 1002 on my system)

See red light on drive stop, indicating that it is no longer buffering, thereby saving wear and tear on your hard disk.

skanter1

11-09-06, 04:23 PM

If you are on Passport, you can do the following (I posted about this last week):
1. Tune to a VOD channel (say, 1000 on my system)
2. Press "swap"
3. Tune to a DIFFERENT VOD channel (say, 1002 on my system)

See red light on drive stop, indicating that it is no longer buffering, thereby saving wear and tear on your hard disk.

Thanks! I'll try it.

BTW, how on earth did you figure this out? :confused:

scott_bernstein

11-09-06, 05:55 PM

BTW, how on earth did you figure this out? :confused:
Frankly, I do not remember. Just trial and error -- I've had this box (and the 8000HD before) for a number of years now, and I'm a born tinkerer....

skanter1

11-09-06, 06:02 PM

Frankly, I do not remember. Just trial and error -- I've had this box (and the 8000HD before) for a number of years now, and I'm a born tinkerer....

Trial and error? There must be a gazillion combinations of buttons to press. Why would you think VOD has anything to do with buffering?

scott_bernstein

11-09-06, 07:02 PM

Trial and error? There must be a gazillion combinations of buttons to press. Why would you think VOD has anything to do with buffering?
Have you ever tried to record anything on the VOD channels? It doesn't let you, saying "This channel is unrecordable" or something. Also, if you FF/REW a VOD program, it's clearly not coming from your hard drive (it's not smooth at all). To me, that's pretty obvious that it wouldn't be buffering to your hard disk at that point....

skanter1

11-09-06, 07:06 PM

Have you ever tried to record anything on the VOD channels? It doesn't let you, saying "This channel is unrecordable" or something. Also, if you FF/REW a VOD program, it's clearly not coming from your hard drive (it's not smooth at all). To me, that's pretty obvious that it wouldn't be buffering to your hard disk at that point....

Obvious to you, but I never would have thought of it! Brilliant, if you ask me...

:D

skanter1

11-09-06, 07:52 PM

If you are on Passport, you can do the following (I posted about this last week):
1. Tune to a VOD channel (say, 1000 on my system)
2. Press "swap"
3. Tune to a DIFFERENT VOD channel (say, 1002 on my system)

See red light on drive stop, indicating that it is no longer buffering, thereby saving wear and tear on your hard disk.

This works, but I assume can be used only after watching and before turning off TV. As soon as you tune to a channel, the drive will start buffering again?

xnappo

11-10-06, 09:38 AM

pepar

11-10-06, 09:46 AM

Paul Chiu

11-10-06, 12:57 PM

Only 11 more hours to go!

Make sure you have at least 100GB on your drives.
Are we all excited yet?

Paul

pepar

11-10-06, 01:01 PM

Only 11 more hours to go!

Make sure you have at least 100GB on your drives.
Are we all excited yet?

Paul
May the Schwartz be with us!

Paul Chiu

11-10-06, 01:19 PM

Yeah!
I hope the neighbors won't be calling the "Force" (Schwartz) on us as I am blasting that DOLBY 5.1 all night long.

May the Schwartz be with us!

Scarlett

11-10-06, 01:24 PM

I built an external drive using a Seagate 400GB SATA perpendicular drive from Outpost and an AZIO case from Newegg.

The drive is recognized and records just fine, but 'studders' (minor MPEG stream breakup) about once every 5 minutes. The box works fine with material recorded to the internal drive.

The box is quite new - manufactured 9/2006. We are running a pretty recent version of Sara in Austin - the one with the 4x FFWD and kick-out fix.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
xnappo
Just out of curiosity, why are you using the Explorer 8000, rather than the 8300? Also, is it the HD or the SD version?

I bought two of those 400GB Seagates from the "new" Frys.com, and I had planned to substitute them for the two 300GB Seagates I am currently using in Apricorn enclosures. However, I have been unable to get my old 300GB formatted with my new HDTV and the 8300HD I picked up at TW here in Austin. I had similar problems with my other 8300HD several months ago--it will recognize the drive, but it won't format and use it! I had absolutely no problems at all with the SD version of the 8300.

I am fairly certain the problem is with the SATA cable connection. I finally managed to get the upstairs 8300HD to format that 300GB Seagate by propping the SATA cable up (actually, I tied it up to a more rigid coax cable!) and it has worked perfectly since that time. Now I am reluctant to disturb that connection just in order to gain another 100GB in programming.

I have no such reluctance with the downstairs setup since it isn't working right now anyway. However, I have experienced the same intermittent "stuttering" you mention while using only the internal drive. I assumed it was happening because of the additional HD signals. There is no pattern to the stuttering, and up to this point it has not been anything more than slightly annoying.

When I have a little more time, I will try the new 400GB Seagates with the downstairs setup to see if I have the same problems with it that you report--provided, of course, that my current 8300HD will actually format it, rather than simply "detect" it. Have you asked this question on our local Cable Group? If so, I haven't seen it. I get great help from both AVS and our Cable Group! :)

Scarlett

skanter1

11-10-06, 02:05 PM

If you are on Passport, you can do the following (I posted about this last week):
1. Tune to a VOD channel (say, 1000 on my system)
2. Press "swap"
3. Tune to a DIFFERENT VOD channel (say, 1002 on my system)

See red light on drive stop, indicating that it is no longer buffering, thereby saving wear and tear on your hard disk.

We made a macro on our universal remote (MX-500) that performs all this, then turns off the TV -- with one button press!

xnappo

11-10-06, 02:15 PM

Just out of curiosity, why are you using the Explorer 8000, rather than the 8300? Also, is it the HD or the SD version?

Hi Scarlett - I am actually using an 8300HD - I had a very rock solid 8000HD ever since it came out (got lucky I guess) but recently picked up an 8300HD to use the SATA port.

I bought two of those 400GB Seagates from the "new" Frys.com, and I had planned to substitute them for the two 300GB Seagates I am currently using in Apricorn enclosures. However, I have been unable to get my old 300GB formatted with my new HDTV and the 8300HD I picked up at TW here in Austin. I had similar problems with my other 8300HD several months ago--it will recognize the drive, but it won't format and use it! I had absolutely no problems at all with the SD version of the 8300.

I had that problem at first, but by resetting it using the front panel reset (left arrow, right arrow, info I think?) it recognized it and formatted it.

Just out of curiosity - what is the version and build date of your boxes? (on the bottom).

When I have a little more time, I will try the new 400GB Seagates with the downstairs setup to see if I have the same problems with it that you report--provided, of course, that my current 8300HD will actually format it, rather than simply "detect" it. Have you asked this question on our local Cable Group? If so, I haven't seen it. I get great help from both AVS and our Cable Group! :)
Scarlett

Thanks - I look forward to your findings. If it turns out that the 400GB causes a problem I guess I will switch to 300GB and try. I think I will also go for a drive with seek-time noise management - these Seagates are loud!

I didn't post over on 'cable' yet - may do so over the weekend after I play with the jumper and find they don't help :)

Regards,
xnappo

pepar

11-10-06, 02:58 PM

Hi Scarlett - I am actually using an 8300HD - I had a very rock solid 8000HD ever since it came out (got lucky I guess) but recently picked up an 8300HD to use the SATA port.
Scarlett noticed that the line below your screen name (still) says "Explorer8000HD-Sara."

xnappo

11-10-06, 04:17 PM

Scarlett noticed that the line below your screen name (still) says "Explorer8000HD-Sara."
Yeah, I know - I'll change it if I get SATA working and decide to keep the 8300HD - I still have my 8000HD hooked up and recording. I know most people think the 8300HD is superior, but like I said my 8000HD has been rock solid, and the lemon rate from SA is pretty high...

xnappo

mtchang

11-10-06, 06:20 PM

Scarlett

11-10-06, 07:34 PM

I had that problem at first, but by resetting it using the front panel reset (left arrow, right arrow, info I think?) it recognized it and formatted it.
As well as I remember, the hard reboot ("front panel reset") is done by holding in the front panel power button while connecting the power cable to the box, and then releasing the power button when "boot" is displayed on the front panel screen. The sequence you mentioned is for gaining access to the diagnostic screens, I think.

Actually, on a hunch, I tried an experiment with my current setup. I powered everything down and disconnected the external SATA drive. Then I rebooted the 8300HD and tried accessing the programs I recorded last night. Although the menu was there (which is always recorded on the internal drive), I was unable to play any recent programming! I then powered down, reconnected the external SATA drive, and did a hard reboot of the 8300HD. Sure enough, my programs are now available for playing. All of which proves that the external SATA drive was, in fact, both detected and formatted, and it is being used for storage.

With the external SATA drive disconnected, the recording space used was only 17%. With the external SATA drive connected, the recording space used is 37% (of the 460GB available) with 19 programs, totalling 24 hours, stored. All of my recording is done in HD, so I guess that is about right. I know that others have made more specific calculations for how many hours of HD programming will fit on the various configurations, and I will defer to them as to the accuracy of the percentage used being reported for my setup. Of course, there is some overhead involved, so the actual amount of "real estate" available is not a full 460GB. :)

The bottom line here is that the 300GB external SATA drive is being utilized, even though I never got confirmation that it was configured for use with the 8300HD. Interesting. This is also the same external drive that I used with my old 8300SD box, so it has been running constantly for over a year.

Just out of curiosity - what is the version and build date of your boxes? (on the bottom).
The 8300HD I picked up a couple of weeks ago is a Rev. 22, and was manufactured on 7/12/2006, so you have an even newer box. The 8300HD that I have had a little more than a year is the one that has the SATA cable tied in place, so I don't want to disturb that setup to look for the version and manufacture date. Obviously, it would have had to be a much earlier model, and it works just as it is supposed to.

Thanks - I look forward to your findings. If it turns out that the 400GB causes a problem I guess I will switch to 300GB and try. I think I will also go for a drive with seek-time noise management - these Seagates are loud!
I have had excellent luck with my 300GB Seagates, and I don't anticipate any problems with the 400GB drives. Others have been successful with them, and even 500GB drives. I think 400GB is as large as I want to try, however, since the overhead seems to increase disproportionately with each 100GB of additional storage.

So far as the noise with Seagates is concerned, I haven't found them to be particularly loud, and I am about 3 feet away from mine. I can hear it, but it has never bothered me, and I think the fan in my enclosure may be causing most of the noise. In my opinion, the main reason you would want a Seagate is because of the 5-year warranty.

After I watch all the stored programs on my external drive, I will replace it with the 400GB Seagate and will let you know how I fare.

Good luck!

Scarlett

Scarlett

11-10-06, 07:52 PM

Hi,
I live in Long Island, NY. Use Cablevision. I added a WD 500GB SATA drive (WD5000KSRTL) in Apricorn EZ-Bus-DTS-EKIT Enclosure to SA Explorer 8300HD DVR 3 weeks ago, running smoothly ever since.
MTCI absolutely love those Apricorn enclosures! I have installed 3 external SATA drives using them, and I bought the USB version to use with an external IDE drive. They never get hot, but I do open them occasionally to blow all the dust out. The nice thing about the newer Apricorn enclosures is that they now include the SATA to eSATA cable that we need for the 8300HD, and that saves $20-$30 each time. :)

Scarlett

roadsterdoc

11-10-06, 09:51 PM

Where is a good place (online) to buy the Apricorn enclosure that includes the SATA to eSATA cable?

KingMax

11-10-06, 11:02 PM

...record a hi-def program and then watch it while recording TWO hi-def programs at the same time. And then watch both of them. Three simultaneous hi-def streams - one being read and two being written - is pretty much the most work the DVR will ever be called upon to do. If you get no stuttering on any of the programs, your rig is good to go, circuitry or no circuitry.

Hey pepar.

Thanks again for your advice.

Tonight I hooked up a WD 250G with Rosewill enclosure (with fan :) ). I followed the agreed upon Passport set up procedure and... knock on wood... everything seems great so far. I'm testing the unit now with your suggestion of 3 simul HD streams and I have yet to see one stutter (knock on wood, knock on wood).

All with an hour to spare until the saga begins! Not bad for someone who just got their first HD TV less than 2 weeks ago (knock on wood ad infinitum!)

Cheers all.

Paul Chiu

11-11-06, 01:01 AM

So far so good. All my drives working well into the 1st hour.

http://paulchiu.zoto.com/img/50/4de30418efc0e37be99931203ed958fa-.jpg

Above capture of my 1080p 37w3 panel using 8300HD DVR as primary and 3250HD as secondary through a D-VHS firewire recorder.

http://paulchiu.zoto.com/img/50/332d7361d2c6428d397a8ab1a6257589-.jpg

Above with 3250HD through D-VHS and Component as primary and 8300HD through DVI as primary

http://paulchiu.zoto.com/img/50/a2d7838cd65412e584617ef72836db1d-.jpg

D-VHS recorder connected to 3250HD and recording via firewire. Will know PQ after marathon....

http://paulchiu.zoto.com/img/50/bd470a6bed6428448ddb607687212a4b-.jpg

3250HD on left and 8300HD DVR on right

http://paulchiu.zoto.com/img/30/ab2730c5969a5288884ebe1c22698512-.jpg

Drives working hard with 8300HD

There you have it. The recorders working hard and hot in my office. People partying in living room watching another HDTV with 3250HD. Most kids still up and interested.....

Later....

Paul

Paul Chiu

11-11-06, 09:22 AM

Everybody fell asleep including myself halfway into Star Wars 3.

I just woke up finding out that the DVR stills works and Star Wars (4) looks fabulous! As good as any HDNET old movies look. Star wars in 1080i looks way better at the native 235:1 today than my DVDs, my Japanese imported Laserdisks, an the special edition S-VHS tapes.

This is the one!

Now, the greatest of them all, The Empire Strikes Back(5)!

PS The PQ has been so GOOD! Oh, so GOOD! In HDMI, DVI, and even Component!

Riverside_Guy

11-11-06, 09:50 AM

OK Paul, NOW you have an obligation to tell us what versions, extended or not (I decided it wasn't worth paying for Cinemax because all the stuff they premiere goes to HBO anyway, so the saga will run in January on HBO and I can wait).

Paul Chiu

11-11-06, 10:04 AM

Morningside fella, off to Zabar for Lox??? I wish....

As for Star Wars (4) versus my old stuff.

The 1080i version is better than

1. 1991 widescreen VHS
2. 1995 same as above but with THX (video wasn't any better)
3. 1994 or so, the CAV editions from Japan. VERY VERY expensive.
4. Finally, those 2004 editions with 1997 originals and 2004 movie re-release
Frankly, those video changes were not that great on DVDs

Today's 1080i on MAX-HD is better than all of the above. I did not get the current lines of DVDs.

I will get Blu-ray or HD-DVD versions if they release them. Just another Star Wars junkie here....

Paul

OK Paul, NOW you have an obligation to tell us what versions, extended or not (I decided it wasn't worth paying for Cinemax because all the stuff they premiere goes to HBO anyway, so the saga will run in January on HBO and I can wait).

pepar

11-11-06, 11:28 AM

My DVR has been laying down tracks since midnight and I have just started watching the episodes in order beginning with Phantom Menace, which I am about an hour into. So far, I've seen only three minor glitches and none, really, where there's a lot going on.

Passport 2.5.066 / 500GB Maxtor Quickview 500 had ~97GB available space before beginning. To me, it looks like 2:20 movies are consuming ~11GB.

KingMax

11-11-06, 12:33 PM

Riverside Guy--

you might want to call TWC and ask about a free month of Cinemax. It worked for me even though i already had HBO ( I believe they're running a promotion where you get a month free if you sign up for both).

Scarlett

11-11-06, 01:19 PM

Where is a good place (online) to buy the Apricorn enclosure that includes the SATA to eSATA cable?I have bought all of my Apricorn enclosures through Newegg. The first two did not have the SATA to eSATA cable, but the third one, which I bought in September 2006, did. The enclosures are silver, aluminum, have large fans, and have a very similar design to the 8300HD. The only downside is a very bright, orange light. My husband hates it, but it doesn't bother me. I have never tried to disable it. It would be nice if it were green or blue, though. :)

Scarlett

pepar

11-11-06, 01:35 PM

Riverside_Guy: If you call them now, you will be able to capture the two trilogies (for free) with ease as they run through the end of the month.

Paul Chiu

11-11-06, 01:45 PM

I have now watched nearly 8 hours of the marathon and Menace, I am glad to say, was the weakest of the 6.

Maybe they were fixing things as they go.

Star Wars was extremely good for a 1977 film.

Return just finished with probably the most artifacts of the 6 but still sharp and colorful.

I did not liked the fact that they use the 2004 re-issues of the original 3, but hey, maybe they'll all be our in Blu-Ray in the original 1977, 1980, and 9183..

PAul

My DVR has been laying down tracks since midnight and I have just started watching the episodes in order beginning with Phantom Menace, which I am about an hour into. So far, I've seen only three minor glitches and none, really, where there's a lot going on.

Passport 2.5.066 / 500GB Maxtor Quickview 500 had ~97GB available space before beginning. To me, it looks like 2:20 movies are consuming ~11GB.

pepar

11-11-06, 04:50 PM

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/10/nasa_space_streaming/

Paul Chiu

11-11-06, 05:34 PM

Watching my 6 precious DVR recordings after 2 hours of slumber...

The PQ on the External 400GB Western Digital is flawless, miles better than the D-VHS recordings I made through a 3250HD box with a JVC HM-DH40000U HDTV Recorder.

Star Wars (4) looked great for a 1977 film at 2.35:1, near CinemaScope.

In Seth (3), the opening space "dogfight" with Anakin and Obi-Wan had just 1 digital artifact event and that was subtle. It was the scene when both Jedae were flying through a giant screen-wide explosion in mostly "reds"

Empire (5) with its dark moods has some fabulous "blacks"

Menace (1) as I had stated earlier was the weakest recording. I know not why that is...

Paul

Fazookus

11-11-06, 06:23 PM

pepar

11-11-06, 07:31 PM

Ha!

For some reason I tried connecting a SATA drive to my SA8300 and... it works! It looks like TW in Manhattan has upgraded their firmware to 2.5.066 very recently, up from 1.8-something a few weeks ago.

Cool...
Yep, that's one thing that's been discussed in the last few pages - TWC Manhattan, Passport and external SATA.

GilWave

11-11-06, 09:20 PM

I can't get over how good SW:ANH looks in 1080i on my Sony SXRD, especially the Tatooine scenes. And to think, for once I didn't have to pay for the priviledge!! Gotta love Cinemax for this.

Now, what do I do with my (comparatively) useless Laserdisc Trilogy? And all my old VHS tapes (Original and Special Edition)? Gotta get rid of them to make room for the inevitable Blu-Ray editions.

-gil

mtchang

11-11-06, 10:39 PM

Where is a good place (online) to buy the Apricorn enclosure that includes the SATA to eSATA cable?

I bought Apricorn from ZipZoomfly but they ae all sold out.
I searched the google and found dell still has it.
See my next post for Dell website.
mtc

mtchang

11-11-06, 10:42 PM

I bought Apricorn from ZipZoomfly but they don't have it any more.
I searched the google and found dell has it.
mtc

Dell website:

http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=dhs&c=us&l=en&cs=19&k=Apricorn+EZ-Bus-DTS-EKIT&cat=all&x=10&y=11

pepar

11-11-06, 11:51 PM

I bought Apricorn from ZipZoomfly but they ae all sold out.
I searched the google and found dell still has it.
See my next post for Dell website.
mtc
Usually ships in 1-2 weeks really doesn't sound like Dell has it. :)

Riverside_Guy

11-12-06, 09:38 AM

Ah Zabar's. Fortunately, it's a mile or so away so I can kinda limit myself from going there. Actually, while the food is expensive, you will not find any better anywhere. AND it does have the BEST prices on any kitchen hardware... yeah this is way off topic, but this place is very special.

So it sounds like the first three eps are the last remasters with the new material that got so many fans in a tizzy. That's really fine with me; didn't I read about an even newer release that also had a "as first shown" version? One of the little dirty secrets of the DVD world is how many releases of any specific film do they publish? Take your favorite film... sheesh, every two years there's another DVD of it to buy, with just this much different to make you want it.

Riverside_Guy

11-12-06, 09:51 AM

Riverside_Guy: If you call them now, you will be able to capture the two trilogies (for free) with ease as they run through the end of the month.

Really? I call them and say I want a free month of Cinemax to try it out and they give it to me? A friend of mine did tell me to add the service, then cancel it next month, somehow I find that more of a PIA than just seeing them in January. Besides, I'm locked into one of my patented internal tug-of-wars about an external drive vs. the hassles attendant with all the necessary work around for the "trick play" bug (which I use ALL the time).

Fazookus

11-12-06, 11:36 AM

Yep, that's one thing that's been discussed in the last few pages - TWC Manhattan, Passport and external SATA.

Dang, usually I check before posting but I got all excited :o

Character_Zero

11-12-06, 11:39 AM

pepar

11-12-06, 11:50 AM

Really? I call them and say I want a free month of Cinemax to try it out and they give it to me? A friend of mine did tell me to add the service, then cancel it next month, somehow I find that more of a PIA than just seeing them in January. Besides, I'm locked into one of my patented internal tug-of-wars about an external drive vs. the hassles attendant with all the necessary work around for the "trick play" bug (which I use ALL the time).
Have you thought of TWO 8300HDs? You could attach an external drive to one for "archiving" hi-def movies and leave the other one naked for use with live TV tricks.

pepar

11-12-06, 11:55 AM

I hooked up my 320GB Seagate 7200.10 with a Kingwin enclosure. It works pretty good, the only problem I have is that I can't record 2 feeds and watch 1 feed off of the drive. The also applies to watching the start of one feed (recording in progress) by going into the list while record 2 feeds. I am not sure if its the drive or the box thats doing this. I also tried to record 2 feeds which are going to the external because it hasn't filled up enough, and then try to watch a feed off of the internal drive (i know its on the internal because it was recording before I got the external). This leads me to believe its more of the box trying to read and write to both drives or something. I also originally had the external drive se to 3.0Gb/sec. I read somewhere that the controller in the SA box is only a 1.5GB/sec and that setting the drive to that would ensure better compatibility.
The 3.0 drive should negotiate with the 8300HD SATA controller and then send data at the host's rate, but sometimes it doesn't work. Jumpering the drive to 1.5 addresses that problem.

What do you mean you "can't?" Blank screen?

mtchang

11-12-06, 12:01 PM

:eek: Usually ships in 1-2 weeks really doesn't sound like Dell has it. :)

CDW has it for $66.99 + $13 (H/S) - ouch :eek:
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=996431

Character_Zero

11-12-06, 12:17 PM

The 3.0 drive should negotiate with the 8300HD SATA controller and then send data at the host's rate, but sometimes it doesn't work. Jumpering the drive to 1.5 addresses that problem.

What do you mean you "can't?" Blank screen?

So the best thing to do it set the jumper to 1.5? 3.0 won't really change anything since the SA only sees a max of 1.5?

Yeah I see a blank screen followed by a reboot (about 2 mins later). While I am able to know what programs are on what drive I am doing some more testing. I was watching a recorded program and set the box to record 2 feeds during the program. The watched program was on the internal while the 2 recording would go to the external. No problems the recordings started and the watched feed didn't break up or anything. I am thinking this could be a problem of the box negotiating the recording and playing of the feeds. I still have one more test wher eI watch a feed off the external and set it to record 2 feeds. So far I have :

Record 1 feed, watch live tv : no problem
Record 2 feeds : no problem
record 1 feed, watch the recording feed by going through list : no problem
record 2 feeds, watch recorded feed : hang on DVR screen and then reboots

um actually while I was writing this I did another test and It worked watching a feed while recording 2. So now I am confused. Maybe the drive needed to be "broken in", I have no idea what that would mean. Well I will update if I get more conclusive evidence.

pepar

11-12-06, 01:39 PM

So the best thing to do it set the jumper to 1.5? 3.0 won't really change anything since the SA only sees a max of 1.5?

Yeah I see a blank screen followed by a reboot (about 2 mins later). While I am able to know what programs are on what drive I am doing some more testing. I was watching a recorded program and set the box to record 2 feeds during the program. The watched program was on the internal while the 2 recording would go to the external. No problems the recordings started and the watched feed didn't break up or anything. I am thinking this could be a problem of the box negotiating the recording and playing of the feeds. I still have one more test wher eI watch a feed off the external and set it to record 2 feeds. So far I have :

Record 1 feed, watch live tv : no problem
Record 2 feeds : no problem
record 1 feed, watch the recording feed by going through list : no problem
record 2 feeds, watch recorded feed : hang on DVR screen and then reboots

um actually while I was writing this I did another test and It worked watching a feed while recording 2. So now I am confused. Maybe the drive needed to be "broken in", I have no idea what that would mean. Well I will update if I get more conclusive evidence.
There's really no "broken in" as drives get tested and work optimally right out of the box. If you still experience the problem, remove AC (yank the cord) from the 8300HD, wait a few minutes before re-applying AC power and turning it on. If that doesn't fix it, call your cable provider and get them to "hit" the box.

GilWave

11-12-06, 02:43 PM

Have you thought of TWO 8300HDs? You could attach an external drive to one for "archiving" hi-def movies and leave the other one naked for use with live TV tricks.I've done that recently, although I put 500GB eSATA drives on both of them.

One is for me, and one is for my wife. She gets:

Desparate Housewives
Greys Anatomy
Men in Trees
Six Degrees
Dancing with the Stars
Weeds

...and all the Lifetime movies she can shake a stick at.

I get:

Lost
The Wire
Brotherhood
South Park
Family Guy
House
Bones

and all the Sci-Fi/Action/Out-there films I can shake a dick at, including my 1080i archive of:

Star Wars (all 6 eps, thanks Cinemax!)
The Matrix
Independence Day
Men In Black
Donnie Darko
Pulp Fiction
Kill Bill 1 and 2
Serenity
etc.

and my favorite HD concerts.

And we can, thannks to my Harmony remote, watch each others DVRs when we feel like it.

One big happy family, just $89 a month!!

;-)

gil

xnappo

11-12-06, 03:14 PM

I hooked up my 320GB Seagate 7200.10 with a Kingwin enclosure..

Can you try an experiment for me? Record two HD shows, then go to one of the two after they have been recording for ~1 minute and play it from the beginning. Watch for ~5 minutes and let me know if you see any breakup? This is the condition under which my 7200.10 glitches. BTW - I found the drive to work better with the jumper off.

Thanks,
xnappo

Scarlett

11-12-06, 03:44 PM

:eek:

CDW has it for $66.99 + $13 (H/S) - ouch :eek:
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=996431
When Newegg has it in stock, it sells for $39.99 + $6.74 (S/H). If you don't need it immediately, you can ask Newegg to AutoNotify you when it is back in stock:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Page=2&N=0&Submit=ENE&Nty=1&Description=Apricorn&Ntk=all

Robert Clark

11-12-06, 04:22 PM

I hooked up my 320GB Seagate 7200.10 with a Kingwin enclosure. It works pretty good, the only problem I have is that I can't record 2 feeds and watch 1 feed off of the drive. The also applies to watching the start of one feed (recording in progress) by going into the list while record 2 feeds. I am not sure if its the drive or the box thats doing this. I also tried to record 2 feeds which are going to the external because it hasn't filled up enough, and then try to watch a feed off of the internal drive (i know its on the internal because it was recording before I got the external). This leads me to believe its more of the box trying to read and write to both drives or something. I also originally had the external drive se to 3.0Gb/sec. I read somewhere that the controller in the SA box is only a 1.5GB/sec and that setting the drive to that would ensure better compatibility.

I hooked up the 320mb Seagate from Newegg and have had nothing but trouble. The 8300HD (Passport) tells me to check the cable but still records some programs. I get lots of freezeups, and missed recordings. The SATA enclosure Newegg sent broke within seconds of opening the box so I quick installed it in a Nexstar3. The drive came with the 1.5 jumper setting but I've switched to 3.0 hoping that would help. No dice.

:(

mweppner

11-12-06, 06:12 PM

I plan to order a new enclosure (one with a fan). I currently have the Vantec Nexstar 3. Everything is working fine, but as I have mentioned before in the thread, my enclosure is fairly hot, so I'm going to make a switch sometime soon.

When I disconnect the current setup, take the hard drive out and put it in the new enclosure and follow the procedure to get it hooked back up, will I need to reformat the drive (ie - lose the recordings)? Or will it still be fine because it is the same drive only with a new enclosure?

pepar

11-12-06, 06:38 PM

Character_Zero

11-12-06, 06:58 PM

Can you try an experiment for me? Record two HD shows, then go to one of the two after they have been recording for ~1 minute and play it from the beginning. Watch for ~5 minutes and let me know if you see any breakup? This is the condition under which my 7200.10 glitches. BTW - I found the drive to work better with the jumper off.

Thanks,
xnappo

I haven't done any recording with both tuners going to the external but sometimes I have seen a little breakup and sometimes I haven't. It varies by the channel and I suspect what I see is maybe from my cable company. I have tried to recreate my problems with trying to watch a recording while recording from both tuners and I haven't had any problems. Although I did unplug the unit a few times when moving cables and such so maybe one of those reboots fixed my issues. I have the jumper on.

There's really no "broken in" as drives get tested and work optimally right out of the box.

Yeah that did sound a bit funny, but I have built computers where the new drive would act flaky (getting disk read errors or other drive errors) for a couple of weeks. Then the drive would work perfectly.

I don't know what happened in this case but the drive seems to be working good now, I haven't had a freeze-up in a while.

mweppner

11-12-06, 07:37 PM

thanks for the reply pepar!!

Character_Zero

11-12-06, 08:47 PM

So a little update for xnappo, I kinda did your experiment. I started recording one HD program and one SD program because thats just how I had it set up for the shows I wanted to watch. I dunno if recording 2 HD programs is that much different. So the 2 recordings started and I waited a couple of minutes and then went into the List and started the HD recording. I did not see any breakup or pixelation of any kind. I think it may have to do with the HD channel since I have seen it on other channels recorded and live (I guess technically in the buffer). I have seen the pixelation on non-local HD channels. I wonder if the local channels give a higher bitrate signal to the cable company than they get for other channels such as TNTHD and HDNET. This is the best I can come up with. Its strange but my external Hard Drive is working good. I am using the SARA software version 1.88.xx (dunno the exact number).

xnappo

11-12-06, 08:59 PM

So a little update for xnappo, I kinda did your experiment. I started recording one HD program and one SD program because thats just how I had it set up for the shows I wanted to watch. I dunno if recording 2 HD programs is that much different.

Hi CZ - Thanks for doing that - I do think that doing two HD recordings with my experiment is much different. One HD and one SD will not cause my setup to breakup - only two HDs with one playing buffered. HD recording forces 8x the amount of data to be recorded vs. SD - really challenging the data rate.

My other box (8000HD) can do this just fine. As will my 8300HD without the drive connected.

Regards,
xnappo

DoubleDAZ

11-12-06, 09:03 PM

(dunno the exact number).The first post in the Tips & Tricks thread tells you how to find the version number.

Character_Zero

11-12-06, 09:59 PM

Hi CZ - Thanks for doing that - I do think that doing two HD recordings with my experiment is much different. One HD and one SD will not cause my setup to breakup - only two HDs with one playing buffered. HD recording forces 8x the amount of data to be recorded vs. SD - really challenging the data rate.

My other box (8000HD) can do this just fine. As will my 8300HD without the drive connected.

Regards,
xnappo

Ok I just did 2 HD feeds. Started playing one and got some hic-ups, nothing unwatchable. Although I did encounter another problem. I was watching a recorded feed that was still ongoing and about 40 minutes in it just stopped. I wasn't too far behind live so i didn't miss much but its like the buffer stopped there. I went over to live. I tried to pause Live and it went back to where the buffer stopped (at the 40 minutes). I stopped the recording and started a new one. The new one starts at the beginning of the buffer (an hour ago). Its like its not making a new buffer. Might have to do a reboot to see if it fixes it.

Scarlett

11-13-06, 02:20 AM

Ok I just did 2 HD feeds. Started playing one and got some hic-ups, nothing unwatchable. Although I did encounter another problem. I was watching a recorded feed that was still ongoing and about 40 minutes in it just stopped. I wasn't too far behind live so i didn't miss much but its like the buffer stopped there. I went over to live. I tried to pause Live and it went back to where the buffer stopped (at the 40 minutes). I stopped the recording and started a new one. The new one starts at the beginning of the buffer (an hour ago). Its like its not making a new buffer. Might have to do a reboot to see if it fixes it.I finally had time earlier today to exchange my old 300GB Seagate for my new 400GB Seagate. So far, it has been a disaster!
Exactly the same thing happened to me tonight while I was recording two HD shows and watching one of them as it recorded. Was it by any chance "Without a Trace" that froze on you? That's the one that locked up on me just about 40 minutes into the program, and I tried everything that you did--all to no avail. I finally ended up just watching it live. As you said, it never made a new buffer! "Brothers and Sisters" was recording at the same time, and it did not have the same freezing problem, although macro-blocking on all recordings is now worse than I have ever seen it! I am seeing it on shows I am watching live, both with and without another program being recorded at the same time. It must have something to do with the new hard drive, because I was not having these issues with my 300GB.

Aside from the obvious increase of 100GB, there are three differences in the old and new drives: (1) The 300GB has an 8ms seek time, and the 400GB has a 10ms seek time; (2) The 300GB was made in Thailand, and the 400GB was made in China; (3) The 300GB has a 150MB/sec data rate, and the 400GB has a 300MB/sec data rate. Both are 7200 RPM and both have 16MB Cache. I did leave the jumper on the 400GB in order to force the 150MB/sec data rate; however, xnappo indicated earlier that performance was better with no jumpering. I have not tried that but will do so tomorrow. If removing the jumpers doesn't effect a significant improvement, I am going back to my 300GB hard drive. The additional 100GB isn't worth this aggravation!

Could some of you who have been successful with the larger hard drives let us know the seek times and data rates on the hard drives you are using? Those seem to be the major differences that might possibly have some bearing on this issue. Could the fact that I am passing the source signals through the 8300HD and allowing the TV to do the upconverting make a difference? That's not the way Time Warner told me to set it up, but I was told in the Sony 40V2500 owners thread that I should let the TV handle the signal conversions.

Many thanks!

Scarlett

Character_Zero

11-13-06, 07:51 AM

Nah I was watching "Desperate Housewives" (my wife likes it, i swear) but it was really strange. It was like the buffer just stopped and it thought 7:55 was 8:55 in the buffer (I am in central time). I actually had mos tof my problems with the jumper off. I figured since the 8300HD maxes at 1.5 might as well set the drive to match it, its not like at 3.0 the drive is going to go any faster. What makes me mad is, if I hadn't been watching the show semi-live the recording would have only gotten 40 mins of the show. At least it didn't lock the system up and cause me to miss the entire ending. I should note that I was also recording an half hour HD program during the first half hour and had no issue with it.

xnappo

11-13-06, 08:34 AM

Character_Zero

11-13-06, 08:53 AM

Yeah it seems that it is something that just happens, with or without the external drive. I want to do a Hard Reboot to just clean the system out but I am unsure of what software version it would load. I though I had read that Knology had rolled back from 1.88 to 1.87 (SARA) but my box has 1.88. It would suck to find out that if I did the Hard Reboot that my firmware got rolled back. I will just keep an eye on the box and see if I get any more incomplete recordings. I rarely record 2 show at once so hopefully that will keep the errors down.

Brighton Line

11-13-06, 09:26 AM

Ok I just did 2 HD feeds. Started playing one and got some hic-ups, nothing unwatchable.

My 8300HD filled up (1.88.23) so I plugged in my extranal drive. As I caught up more and more shows are on the external to the point I'm recording two and watching a third all on the external drive. This is when I notice studdering, little hic-ps. Didn't have any problem when it was just the STB or wathing a third from the STB and recording to the extrenal. Only when all three programs are coming to/from the external do I get studderring.

Character_Zero

11-13-06, 09:36 AM

Only when all three programs are coming to/from the external do I get studderring.

That seems to be the case for me, but with this software I can't tell if its the drive or the box. If it keeps partially recording shows I might have to go back to Tivo and SD. I really really want to keep the ability to record in HD though so I will give it some time.

xnappo

11-13-06, 09:53 AM

My 8300HD filled up (1.88.23) so I plugged in my extranal drive. As I caught up more and more shows are on the external to the point I'm recording two and watching a third all on the external drive. This is when I notice studdering, little hic-ps. Didn't have any problem when it was just the STB or wathing a third from the STB and recording to the extrenal. Only when all three programs are coming to/from the external do I get studderring.

Yep, same here. Works fine unless all content is coming from/going to the external drive. What drive make/size and enclosure do you have?

Thanks,
xnappo

pepar

11-13-06, 10:23 AM

Yeah that did sound a bit funny, but I have built computers where the new drive would act flaky (getting disk read errors or other drive errors) for a couple of weeks. Then the drive would work perfectly.
For me, in a PC environment drive errors on a new drive = RMA.

pepar

11-13-06, 10:47 AM

I finally had time earlier today to exchange my old 300GB Seagate for my new 400GB Seagate. So far, it has been a disaster!
Exactly the same thing happened to me tonight while I was recording two HD shows and watching one of them as it recorded. Was it by any chance "Without a Trace" that froze on you? That's the one that locked up on me just about 40 minutes into the program, and I tried everything that you did--all to no avail. I finally ended up just watching it live. As you said, it never made a new buffer! "Brothers and Sisters" was recording at the same time, and it did not have the same freezing problem, although macro-blocking on all recordings is now worse than I have ever seen it! I am seeing it on shows I am watching live, both with and without another program being recorded at the same time. It must have something to do with the new hard drive, because I was not having these issues with my 300GB.

Aside from the obvious increase of 100GB, there are three differences in the old and new drives: (1) The 300GB has an 8ms seek time, and the 400GB has a 10ms seek time; (2) The 300GB was made in Thailand, and the 400GB was made in China; (3) The 300GB has a 150MB/sec data rate, and the 400GB has a 300MB/sec data rate. Both are 7200 RPM and both have 16MB Cache. I did leave the jumper on the 400GB in order to force the 150MB/sec data rate; however, xnappo indicated earlier that performance was better with no jumpering. I have not tried that but will do so tomorrow. If removing the jumpers doesn't effect a significant improvement, I am going back to my 300GB hard drive. The additional 100GB isn't worth this aggravation!

Could some of you who have been successful with the larger hard drives let us know the seek times and data rates on the hard drives you are using? Those seem to be the major differences that might possibly have some bearing on this issue. Could the fact that I am passing the source signals through the 8300HD and allowing the TV to do the upconverting make a difference? That's not the way Time Warner told me to set it up, but I was told in the Sony 40V2500 owners thread that I should let the TV handle the signal conversions.

Many thanks!

Scarlett
Sorry to hear about your ordeal! Three simultaneous hi-def streams do not saturate a 150MBps bus, so a 300MBps one would make no difference (even if it were possible on the 8300HD). Seek time, on modern drives, is not an issue either, as they are all quick enough. Nor should where the upconversion takes place affect DVR performance either.

My 500GB Maxtor Quickview 500 is nearly full after the Star Wars marathon. I've watched four episodes so far and while they are not 100% glitch-free, they are mostly much more than acceptable. I had previously recorded Episode Three and will watch it again to see if it's better than the one I just recorded. There is more breakup in the final battle than I'd like and I seem to remember the previous recording being better. Some of the glitches I've seen are on the recording, i.e. present in every playback of the specific segment, while others are NOT there the second time. The former could have been present in the source, while the latter seems like a read error.

I realize I haven't shed any light on what your problem *might* be, but that seems to be the nature of the incompatibility issues experienced with these boxes.

pepar

11-13-06, 10:55 AM

Yep, same here. Works fine unless all content is coming from/going to the external drive. What drive make/size and enclosure do you have?

Thanks,
xnappo
My two 8300HD/external drive setups are both functioning perfectly, i.e. I have no problems with the "three HD stream" test - regardless of which is the target drive. I am not saying that I have ZERO glitches, only that there doesn't seem to be more than when there was no external drive. And if I do "reject" a recording, usually the second capture is better.

Passport 2.5.066 / Maxtor Quickview drives (300GB & 500GB)

xnappo

11-13-06, 11:05 AM

I finally had time earlier today to exchange my old 300GB Seagate for my new 400GB Seagate. So far, it has been a disaster!

Scarlett,

I hate to say this, but to me this is good news.

You have the same 400GB drive as me and we are obviously on the same firmware - this gives me hope that I can pick up a 300GB drive and get this stuff working right.

Sorry to be happy about your problems!
xnappo

davehancock

11-13-06, 11:20 AM

RE: Discussion of recording 2 HD streams while watching a 3rd: I have observed increased "stuttering" when doing this - but as pepar reports, the amount is entirely acceptable. I've also previously noted, that I observed more "stuttering" when the internal drive was used than when my 250GB Maxtor was being used.

Also, at one time in this thread (before it was "captured" by the Passport folks), there was a fair amount of discussion of the need to disable error correction on the external drives. The consensus back then was that it needed to be disabled. I wonder if this is still relavent (for either Passport or SARA).

davehancock

11-13-06, 11:32 AM

I was watching a recorded feed that was still ongoing and about 40 minutes in it just stopped. I wasn't too far behind live so i didn't miss much but its like the buffer stopped there. I went over to live. I tried to pause Live and it went back to where the buffer stopped (at the 40 minutes). I stopped the recording and started a new one. The new one starts at the beginning of the buffer (an hour ago). Its like its not making a new buffer. Might have to do a reboot to see if it fixes it.I, and others in my area, have periodically had this early stopping problem. It seems to take various forms and clearly is not directly related to the version of SARA (it was there on earlier versions of SARA as well as the current one). People have had this problem with 8300s without an external drive, though more seem to report it that have the external drive. It can happen with just recording a single program, even when the box is doing nothing else. But, I've also encountered exactly the same situation that you did (froze while watching from buffer)It also seems to be most prevelent on certain channels in an area (ABC here, but Fox in other areas). A manager at TW has told me that the problem is due to a "problem" with one of the chips in the 8300, but SA does have a SW patch in Beta testing. The date is past when they said it will be available.

Hard reboots seem to have no effect.

Riverside_Guy

11-13-06, 12:00 PM

(before it was "captured" by the Passport folks).

Oh, we "Passport" folks are just plain old evil!

pepar

11-13-06, 12:16 PM

Also, at one time in this thread, there was a fair amount of discussion of the need to disable error correction on the external drives. The consensus back then was that it needed to be disabled. I wonder if this is still relavent (for either Passport or SARA).
I've never taken any action to accomplish that unless you count using only Maxtor Quickview drives, which are "advertised" as being specifically for streaming video.

Character_Zero

11-13-06, 12:17 PM

It also seems to be most prevelent on certain channels in an area (ABC here, but Fox in other areas).

It was ABC. Well I hope it something that is fixable. I don't watch as much ABC programming so hopefully it won't affect my other channels.

davehancock

11-13-06, 12:48 PM

Oh, we "Passport" folks are just plain old evil!

Yes - you are to this thread :D because the workings with SARA are apparently different than with Passport. All too often folks (of both persuasions) talk about what works and what doesn't don't make clear which. Further, you folks have not moved Passport/ext drive discussions to a separate thread.

The early parts of this thread are all SARA - so it is the PASSPORT folks who are the evil ones here :p

pepar

11-13-06, 01:28 PM

Yes - you are to this thread :D because the workings with SARA are apparently different than with Passport. All too often folks (of both persuasions) talk about what works and what doesn't don't make clear which. Further, you folks have not moved Passport/ext drive discussions to a separate thread.

The early parts of this thread are all SARA - so it is the PASSPORT folks who are the evil ones here :p
Passport is not OT here on the subject of an external SATA drive. With the exception of Scarlett and the other (rare) super-diligent members, who reads the "early parts" anyway? If the mods want to split the thread, so be it, but I think there's more similarity than dis-similarity. I've been hanging out here since way before Passport "supported" external drives and I see no more confusion now than then. People - see above caveat - didn't search the thread and read anything that went before then, and they - see above caveat - don't now. :) & :p

Scarlett

11-13-06, 02:55 PM

Passport is not OT here on the subject of an external SATA drive. And who reads the "early parts" anyway? If the mods want to split the thread, so be it, but I think there's more similarity than dis-similarity. I've been hanging out here since way before Passport "supported" external drives and I see no more confusion now than then. People didn't search the thread and read anything that went before then, and they don't now. :) & :pTo the contrary, I have read every single post in this thread from the very beginning, and while I enjoy reading your comments and appreciate them, I have to agree with Dave that our respective interests would be best served if we had a "SARA" thread and a "Passport" thread. I have tried to comply with every rule imposed by the AVS Forum, as well as every suggestion by the members, e.g., I have listed my equipment, firmware, and provider as part of my Member Name, and not in a signature. And I always search first! This thread is huge, and I find myself reading the old and new posts and wondering if this is information that applies to me and my current problem, only to discover that Passport is being discussed and, therefore, cannot benefit my setup. It is not always readily apparent which firmware is being discussed, although more and more people are posting that information. As mentioned before, it also would be helpful if everyone would list their locations, and I fail to understand the reluctance to provide them. Knowing that someone is in your same city with the same provider is always a plus. And knowing that someone in a different city and/or state who has the same provider, but who has a later firmware version, has also been beneficial to me. I have used that information to inquire of our local provider when the same version would be made available to us--and I have been told why we didn't have it yet and when it would be rolled out. It's always better to have something to look forward to. But I digress...

I don't know how much time and effort would be involved in splitting this thread, but I would be very much in favor of it. This is not to suggest that you or any Passport user would be unwelcome to post generic comments. I especially enjoyed seeing your home theater setup. But specific comments regarding the performance, capabilities, enhancements, and problems with Passport and SARA firmware belong in separate threads. That would make each thread more manageable and should enhance and encourage searches within the threads for people seeking information for their specific firmware.

If this is not a feasible solution, then I will continue to read each and every post and simply weed out those which do not apply to SARA. You have always been quick to post responses to my questions, and those responses have addressed the technology rather than the firmware. That information has been valuable to me, and I thank you again for taking the time to help. I need all the help I can get! :)

Scarlett

pepar

11-13-06, 03:15 PM

To the contrary, I have read every single post in this thread from the very beginning, and while I enjoy reading your comments and appreciate them, I have to agree with Dave that our respective interests would be best served if we had a "SARA" thread and a "Passport" thread. I have tried to comply with every rule imposed by the AVS Forum, as well as every suggestion by the members, e.g., I have listed my equipment, firmware, and provider as part of my Member Name, and not in a signature. And I always search first! This thread is huge, and I find myself reading the old and new posts and wondering if this is information that applies to me and my current problem, only to discover that Passport is being discussed and, therefore, cannot benefit my setup. It is not always readily apparent which firmware is being discussed, although more and more people are posting that information. As mentioned before, it also would be helpful if everyone would list their locations, and I fail to understand the reluctance to provide them. Knowing that someone is in your same city with the same provider is always a plus. And knowing that someone in a different city and/or state who has the same provider, but who has a later firmware version, has also been beneficial to me. I have used that information to inquire of our local provider when the same version would be made available to us--and I have been told why we didn't have it yet and when it would be rolled out. It's always better to have something to look forward to. But I digress...

I don't know how much time and effort would be involved in splitting this thread, but I would be very much in favor of it. This is not to suggest that you or any Passport user would be unwelcome to post generic comments. I especially enjoyed seeing your home theater setup. But specific comments regarding the performance, capabilities, enhancements, and problems with Passport and SARA firmware belong in separate threads. That would make each thread more manageable and should enhance and encourage searches within the threads for people seeking information for their specific firmware.

If this is not a feasible solution, then I will continue to read each and every post and simply weed out those which do not apply to SARA. You have always been quick to post responses to my questions, and those responses have addressed the technology rather than the firmware. That information has been valuable to me, and I thank you again for taking the time to help. I need all the help I can get! :)

Scarlett
Previous post edited!

I understand your well-reasoned position, but I still disagree. People like you, who read, will always determine relevance. And people who don't read will always be redundant and clueless - in the same thread or separate ones. I would abstain, though, if a vote were taken on thread splitting and simply follow the majority.

davehancock

11-13-06, 04:04 PM

Scarlett,

Thanks for your vote of confidence. It is clear to me that many aspects of these are quite different between systems. For example, the initialization of a SARA external drive is different - connections are made with power disconnected to 8300 on SARA, but apparently, done "live" on Passport. The "issue" that I mentioned (early stopping) seems to be exclusive to SARA. Likewise, the earlier discussion of the need to disable error correction was exclusive to SARA (Passport did not support the ext drive then).

davehancock

11-13-06, 07:13 PM

Previous post edited!

I understand your well-reasoned position, but I still disagree. People like you, who read, will always determine relevance. And people who don't read will always be redundant and clueless - in the same thread or separate ones. I would abstain, though, if a vote were taken on thread splitting and simply follow the majority.

The issue remains that people fail to note if they are on SARA or Passport - and that this IS IMPORTANT! The most effective way to deal with this is for someone (like you pepar) to start a thread for the external drive on Passport systems.

Failing that, I'll start asking folks to ID which they have (you'll be seeing me do that a lot - maybe that will get my post count up, but that won't be why I do it).

pepar

11-13-06, 07:27 PM

The issue remains that people fail to note if they are on SARA or Passport - and that this IS IMPORTANT! The most effective way to deal with this is for someone (like you pepar) to start a thread for the external drive on Passport systems.

Failing that, I'll start asking folks to ID which they have (you'll be seeing me do that a lot - maybe that will get my post count up, but that won't be why I do it).
Deja vu, Dave. I don't disagree on posters listing the software their box is running, but many don't know they have software, much less know which it is. The last time I posted that, the next post (or so) was from someone asking what Passport and SARA are. There'd need to be a thread for people to learn about software and which one they had before going on to the "correct" thread. I just don't see that working.

davehancock

11-13-06, 07:39 PM

Deja vu, Dave. I don't disagree on posters listing the software their box is running, but many don't know they have software, much less know which it is. The last time I posted that, the next post (or so) was from someone asking what Passport and SARA are. There'd need to be a thread for people to learn about software and which one they had before going on to the "correct" thread. I just don't see that working.
The answer will be simple: Check THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6225742&&#post6225742) thread!

DoubleDAZ

11-13-06, 07:52 PM

davehancock

11-13-06, 07:58 PM

"Nuff said" - I'll be a persistent reminder to those who don't post their OS.

pepar

11-13-06, 11:33 PM

Unfortunately, even though I agree with Dave :) , I don't see it working either, it's simply too late in the game. Even the SARA and Passport threads have seen an increase in posters from the opposite camp and I expect this to increase as we get closer to Christmas. The Passport thread itself has seen an increase in SATA-related posts. I won't even mention the number of PMs I get regarding SATA and Passport and I use neither. :)
I frequently get those myself. I'd prefer they post - or better yet SEARCH - on the appropriate thread, but I do help. Mostly by nudging, but it usually doesn't take more than two exchanges until they're on track.

So, a lot of folks either don't know what software they are using or simply don't look hard enough at the list of threads before posting. I think the best we can hope for is to direct posters to the right thread and continue to harp on adding a location and hardware/software note to their profile/signature. I know AVS generally doesn't like a laundry list of hardware in signatures, but I've seen nothing to indicate they have a problem with a single line saying 8300/SARA 1.88.22.1/SATA, etc.

I'm not sure why the Moderators didn't split out the Passport posts when they first started. They jumped on that very early with the Tips&Tricks thread and it's worked fairly well, all things considered. Of course, other than the initial connection sequence, I'm not really sure just how much difference there is relative to SATA expansion.
That's easy; this thread's subject/title is non-denominational. SARA threads are obviously for SARA posts. Ditto Passport threads.

I have hit statistics on my web server which contains my company's site (http://www.agedwoods.com) and pepar's place. The second highest referring domain to the server is avsforum.com; my sig's link is getting a LOT of hits. I could easily add an SA8300HD FAQ, call it "ultimate" or some such splashy/flashy/trashy name and link *it* in my sig. For that matter, any regular here could link to it. That might be a workaround. Comments?

AND, I've edited my sig again . . .

DoubleDAZ

11-14-06, 08:55 AM

That's easy; this thread's subject/title is non-denominational. SARA threads are obviously for SARA posts. Ditto Passport threads. The Tips&Tricks thread, when first started, was also non-denominational. As soon as Passport started showing up, the Moderators changed my title and spun off the Passport posts to a new thread. Eventually they decided to make a Master thread so there would be only one SA8300 Sticky. Vegggas immediately added to that thread the info on how to find the software version so folks could then post to the correct thread. That worked, but only for a short time as folks don't often read the first post in any thread until advised to do so. Hence, we have posts and PMs all over the place. I don't know if you've noticed or not, but there are also quite a few new threads being started because folks simply take the easy way out and start one. Their hope is that someone will answer it without them having to put forth any effort searching the larger threads, etc. Of course, these scroll off fairly quickly and they don't realize that by doing this, they minimize the number of views and often don't get much, if any, response. Such is life on AVS. :(

pepar

11-14-06, 10:03 AM

The Tips&Tricks thread, when first started, was also non-denominational. As soon as Passport started showing up, the Moderators changed my title and spun off the Passport posts to a new thread. Eventually they decided to make a Master thread so there would be only one SA8300 Sticky. Vegggas immediately added to that thread the info on how to find the software version so folks could then post to the correct thread. That worked, but only for a short time as folks don't often read the first post in any thread until advised to do so. Hence, we have posts and PMs all over the place. I don't know if you've noticed or not, but there are also quite a few new threads being started because folks simply take the easy way out and start one. Their hope is that someone will answer it without them having to put forth any effort searching the larger threads, etc. Of course, these scroll off fairly quickly and they don't realize that by doing this, they minimize the number of views and often don't get much, if any, response. Such is life on AVS. :(
It's a self-perpetuating circle. Lack of effort to search a long thread = one more redundant post = that much longer thread = etc, etc. Just like we all have different home theater budgets, we all have differing amounts of initiative and resourcefulness. Such is life, period.

Riverside_Guy

11-14-06, 10:17 AM

Oh, long ago I stated that there already is a lot of "collective intelligence" in this thread applying to Passport. I suggested that a thread split into SARA and Passport must have some effort from the mods to at least try and split posts; lacking that, it just doesn't make sense to start a thread devoted to Passport while a lot of answers that will stay "locked up" in this thread.

For a really long while now, I have realized the reality of very different software running the same hardware; indeed more posts than not don't mention what software they are on and thus those questions become difficult at best to be answered. Obviously I have endowed my sig and "nick-badge" with all the relevant information so I shouldn't have to say what I have/use.

Rather than being called "evil" it's probably far more helpful to get members to put this kind of basic information into their sigs, DESPITE the dumb warning that you shouldn't put equipment in formation into your sig. If someone knows how to come here, register and post, they know full well how to add sig information (d/oh, user control panel).

redjr

11-14-06, 11:21 AM

It's a self-perpetuating circle. Lack of effort to search a long thread = one more redundant post = that much longer thread = etc, etc. Just like we all have different home theater budgets, we all have differing amounts of initiative and resourcefulness. Such is life, period.
pepar,

I don't think it's always a lack of effort in searching a long thread. The AVS thread search function is dismal and the Google option isn't provided at the thread level. More often than not I find it incredibly hard to ferret out the information I'm looking for. Try doing a search on os, or 'OS'. You'll get every word that contains os. Furthermore, you can't search within results - either within a thread, or using the Google option. At least I haven't been able to find out how. :eek:

I've recently taken an interest in finding out about the SARA software on my STB. I tried in vain to find a post that outlined what buttons to push or hold on the remote to enter the diagnostic screens(all 35 pages of them) so that I could find out the version on my box. Google finally provided me with an answer, but even that was a painful process! But, nonetheless, the effort was almost more time consuming than it was worth! Even after leaving a post requesting this information for my local area, I got a reply to try another site altogether for the info. How to access this kind of information about a STB seems pretty basic and should be the first listed under tips and tricks.

It's often challenging to find things on the AVS Forums. I still can't find out how to change the color scheme of the Post Ticker - to match the AVS White I prefer. Any takers?

Rant over....

redjr :)

davehancock

11-14-06, 11:50 AM

redjr

11-14-06, 12:46 PM

redjr,

I certainly agree with what you say about the AVS search being almost useless. However, the start of the SARA threads does contain the info on entering the diagnostic screens. I can understand the difficulty of finding info buried somewhere in the middle of 107 pages, I can't understand people asking for info that is right there on the first page of a thread!
Dave,

Point taken. However, I find it odd that as ubiquitous as cable boxes are, and the fact that they are typically referred to as a 'STB', that not one AVS subcategory even mentions 'STB'. While my SA 8300HD is an HDTV DVR, it is first a plain ole STB. I think most people glancing at the Forum index, or even doing a search might first be looking for STB under some category that might include Cable Reception, etc. Instead, it's buried under HDTV > HDTV Recorders! Sigh. I know it's all about how the AVS powers that be have decided to organize the topics. There are multiple ways to organize data though and many equally valid. Normally, I can't find anything by looking at the index! But maybe that's just me. :D

BTW, I did ultimately find it under the first thread as you suggested, but in my case is wasn't particularly easy. I don't think I ever searched on 'Tips and Tricks - SARA', but instead something more logical like SARA OS. :confused:

Thanks again for you assistance...

redjr... :)

Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta

11-14-06, 12:57 PM

I can understand the difficulty of finding info buried somewhere in the middle of 107 pages, I can't understand people asking for info that is right there on the first page of a thread!I realize people do ask questions for which the answers seem readily available, but for newcomers it can be tricky to figure out where to look and how to recognize the best source to consult. I'm sure many people are coming here, finding what they are looking for, and taking advantage of it without leaving a post in their wake.

Regards,
Ron

xnappo

11-14-06, 05:11 PM

Okay... now that we have two MORE pages of stuff for newbies to wade through back to my problem :)

I went ahead and ordered a Diamond Max 10 6L300S0 - which is supposedly the same drive that is in the quickview explorer - I will let y'all know the result.

I suppose I will put in my $0.02 on the thread subject, personally I think we should split. It is only going to get worse once people start being on TWC Navigator (http://www.timewarnercable.com/milwaukee/navigator/default.html) and start posting here.

We should ask the moderators to close posting to this thread, with the 'Sticky' 8300HD 'master thread' pointing to three posts:

Legacy eSATA thread (this thread)
Sara eSATA thread
Passport eSATA thread

At the end of the Legacy thread we also point to the two new ones.

xnappo

pepar

11-14-06, 05:24 PM

I've recently taken an interest in finding out about the SARA software on my STB. I tried in vain to find a post that outlined what buttons to push or hold on the remote to enter the diagnostic screens(all 35 pages of them) so that I could find out the version on my box. Google finally provided me with an answer, but even that was a painful process! But, nonetheless, the effort was almost more time consuming than it was worth! Even after leaving a post requesting this information for my local area, I got a reply to try another site altogether for the info. How to access this kind of information about a STB seems pretty basic and should be the first listed under tips and tricks.
SA 8300 HD Tips & Tricks -- SARA (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=471859) first post. This thread is readily accessible from the stickied SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA Master Thread for all PVR's/ DVR's and HD STB's (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=581843) thread. I'm sorry, but I don't know how it could be any easier.

:eek: is right.

DoubleDAZ

11-14-06, 09:00 PM

redjr

11-14-06, 10:18 PM

redjr,

I'm sorry if the Tips&Tricks are not listed in a sequence you'd find more useful. They are what they are and I don't apologize for not putting in some extra hours sequencing them to your liking. I'm sorry if you don't have the time or patience to read through the post to find what you are interested in.

FWIW, the second post in the Master thread tells you exactly what to do to find version info. The Master thread was put together by the Moderators here explicitly for folks like you and, like pepar said, I don't know how it could be any easier.

I believe there is a forum for STBs, but it's titled HDTV Reception Hardware and includes OTA, cable, and satellite HD receivers. While you may think of your unit as an STB first and DVR second, most folks who visit AVS are looking for DVR-related info, not basic/general STB info.
Dave,

I wasn't criticizing the sequence of your tips and tricks thread. I now know what to look for and where to look. I guess using my lame or ill-defined search criteria, I never found it under the Tips and Tricks labeled thread.

Anyway thanks for replying, but let's not spend any more time on what is apparently my weakness in finding specific information on the AVS forums.

redjr...

redjr

11-14-06, 10:25 PM

SA 8300 HD Tips & Tricks -- SARA (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=471859) first post. This thread is readily accessible from the stickied SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA Master Thread for all PVR's/ DVR's and HD STB's (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=581843) thread. I'm sorry, but I don't know how it could be any easier.

:eek: is right.
Believe me, I've now got a shortcut on my desktop that will take right there! :D

redjr... :)

DoubleDAZ

11-14-06, 10:46 PM

redjr

11-15-06, 09:56 AM

redjr,

Perhaps I mistook your postings as a complaint. At any rate, I've never, ever had any success using the AVS search functions and as you can see I've been here for over 3 years now. In fact, when folks post that they tried to search, I tend to try myself and see that they would never get what they were looking for. I am not a proponent of searching for info and I certainly have my own problems with how AVS determined their forum/thread titles, but I am a bit perplexed as to how you found this thread but not the Master thread or the Tips&Tricks thread. Anyway, I hope I haven't soured you on posting questions here. :)
Dave,

You haven't. No problem. I use Google everyday and usually can find what I'm looking for within a couple tries after narrowing my criteria. In the few months I've been using AVS, my quest for search info always comes up short and like a lot of people, I probably give up too soon and just post my question. I'm sure the seasoned users here know many more efficient ways to navigate the forum topic categories and search threads.

I do appreciate your feedback and patience. I'm sure I'll be back cause my next project is adding an external drive to my 8300. From the looks of this thread there is plenty of first-hand experience I can tap. I'll also have to check out pepar's site.

Thanks again.
redjr...

pepar

11-15-06, 10:02 AM

Dave,

You haven't. No problem. I use Google everyday and usually can find what I'm looking for within a couple tries after narrowing my criteria. In the few months I've been using AVS, my quest for search info always comes up short and like a lot of people, I probably give up too soon and just post my question. I'm sure the seasoned users here know many more efficient ways to navigate the forum topic categories and search threads.

I do appreciate your feedback and patience. I'm sure I'll be back cause my next project is adding an external drive to my 8300. From the looks of this thread there is plenty of first-hand experience I can tap. I'll also have to check out pepar's site.

Thanks again.
redjr...
Your humbleness has made me feel like a bully. :o

Paul Chiu

11-15-06, 10:12 AM

Are you guys getting the forum in TEXT ONLY mode today?

Riverside_Guy

11-15-06, 10:17 AM

Bad pepar, no Star Wars for you this week!

redjr

11-15-06, 10:59 AM

Your humbleness has made me feel like a bully. :o
Nah... I'm just slow. :p

redjr...

pepar

11-15-06, 11:01 AM

Are you guys getting the forum in TEXT ONLY mode today?
Got the whole enchilada here.

belgiangenius

11-15-06, 11:10 AM

So, does anyone actually have a solution to this "add an external HDD and get constant video and sound blips" problem?

jchandlerhall

11-15-06, 11:29 AM

Scarlett

11-15-06, 11:47 AM

So, does anyone actually have a solution to this "add an external HDD and get constant video and sound blips" problem?(1) Are you running Passport or SARA firmware?

(2) What is your location?

(3) Who is your provider?

xnappo

11-15-06, 11:49 AM

So, does anyone actually have a solution to this "add an external HDD and get constant video and sound blips" problem?

Not that I can tell. But from Scarlett and my experience I would say don't use a Seagate 7200.10 400GB drive :)

My Maxtor DiamondMax10 6L300S0 will be here tomorrow, and I will see how it works.

I think the error correction part of this thread (search) is quite interesting - on a computer you want a drive to attempt to re-read bad data as much as possible, but for this application that is not the case. It seems the Hitachi CinemaStar series may provide this. It seems like people building RAID systems also have an interest in how much error correction the drive tries to do, however I wasn't able to discern whether a drive made for RAID(which exist) would treat errors favorably for streaming video...

xnappo

belgiangenius

11-15-06, 12:30 PM

(1) Are you running Passport or SARA firmware?

(2) What is your location?

(3) Who is your provider?

1. SARA firmware

2. Toronto, Ontario, Canada

3. Rogers

I added a Seagate 320GB 7200.10 with a Vantec Nexstar 3 and it's blip city, even 10 minutes or so.

Character_Zero

11-15-06, 12:34 PM

Hey, I also lost most of the Desp Housewives show that night. We didn't get anywhere near 40mins, instead maybe only 20. The 'bar' showed 1/3 green, 2/3 red. Other shows recorded.

This was on Knology cable company, Huntsville AL, running an 8300 / Sara.

My cut recording was with Knology in Huntsville as well.

1. SARA firmware

2. Toronto, Ontario, Canada

3. Rogers

I added a Seagate 320GB 7200.10 with a Vantec Nexstar 3 and it's blip city, even 10 minutes or so.

Thats the drive I have but the blips don't happen all the time on all the channels. Its weird but watchable.

archiguy

11-15-06, 01:05 PM

Scarlett

11-15-06, 01:05 PM

Hey, I also lost most of the Desp Housewives show that night. We didn't get anywhere near 40mins, instead maybe only 20. The 'bar' showed 1/3 green, 2/3 red. Other shows recorded.

This was on Knology cable company, Huntsville AL, running an 8300 / Sara.What is your SARA Revision Number?

I called TW Tech Support last night about this issue. The Tech first checked my signal and said it was fine. I then reported that the 8300HD had just gone into a spontaneous reboot. He suggested that the 8300HD had detected that it needed to be reset. (The spontaneous reboots have occurred frequently with this unit.) I then reported the macro-blocking issues, and he wanted to send someone out to "test my signal." Typical Tier 1 responses. I doubt that there is anything wrong with my signal, and I declined his offer.

My freeze on Sunday night occurred on CBS, and it happened again last night on NBC, so I doubt that it is a network problem. Immediately after my lockup last night, my 8300HD went through the spontaneous reboot. Fortunately, that happened before my 7:00 p.m. (and subsequent) recordings started! I have two HD recordings scheduled every night beginning at 7:00 p.m. and ending at 10:00 p.m. All of my shows recorded last night, and I have watched about half of them. There was no freezing, but there was significant macro-blocking (or pixellation).

Were you watching "Desperate Housewives" while it was being recorded? I am wondering if this might be a buffering problem. I simply don't understand the technology well enough to make a realistic determination. All I can do is to report the "symptoms" and let the experts make a "diagnosis."

Before I bought an HDTV and upgraded my 8300 to an 8300HD, I didn't have these problems. After formatting my external SATA drive to work with the new 8300HD, I did have more pixellation than I experienced with my earlier SD recordings, but I did not have any freezing problems. It was only after I exchanged my 300GB Seagate for a 400GB Seagate that the lockups, or freezing, occurred. This may be a coincidence, but I am going to troubleshoot the problem in the following manner:

(1) Completely disconnect the external SATA 400GB drive and observe how the internal hard drive handles the recordings. If the problems completely disappear, I will move to:

(2) Reconnect the external 300GB SATA drive to see how the internal and external drives co-exist and perform. If I have no, or minimal, problems, I will then:

(3) Substitute the external 400GB SATA drive and wait to see if the problems reappear. If they do, I will:

(4) Exchange the 8300HD for a new one and repeat this sequence. If I experience the same problems, I will then:

(5) Order a Maxtor Quickview Expander kit to see if that hard drive really makes a difference as pepar has reported. If that is the solution, I will report it here. Otherwise, I will simply:

(6) Live with it!

Both Passport and SARA users have reported these problems. To my knowledge, no one has come up with the definitive answer. It is all trial and error, and you won't get any help from your provider. I have had minimal success dealing with Scientific Atlanta in the past, but I do intend to make another call to them to see if they can shed any light on these issues. Who knows, I might get lucky and make a connection with someone there who actually has a clue about this equipment! :)

I don't know whether the size of the external SATA drive really matters--some folks have reported success with hard drives up to 750GB--but my experience dictates that I had fewer problems with the 300GB drive, and I had even fewer problems when I was recording SD programs. I have always had an 8300HD DVR connected to my upstairs SDTV, and it has handled that programming perfectly. I am beginning to think that the 8300HD equipment cannot perform to its specifications. I wonder how the TiVo S3 is working out. I think it ships with a 250GB hard drive, and at this time has no external drive options, although it was my understanding that it does have that as a future capability. Perhaps the answer for the SA 8300HD is to start shipping with larger internal hard drives and more memory--although I have been told by SA that they have no plans to do that. I guess we will have to continue "pushing the envelope" to see how far we can get and how much we are willing to accept in the way of reduced performance.

My current SARA firmware is 1.88.17.a100. I know that I have seen a later revision of 1.88.22.xx for someone here. I don't think I have ever seen the Revision History for the 8300HD anywhere. I would be interested in knowing what features were added in the later revision, though. Perhaps someone at SA would be willing to tell me. If so, and if they are significant, I will ask TW here in Austin when we can expect to move up to that revision. The worst they can tell me is "never." :)

Onward through the fog....

Scarlett

Character_Zero

11-15-06, 01:29 PM

Were you watching "Desperate Housewives" while it was being recorded? I am wondering if this might be a buffering problem. I simply don't understand the technology well enough to make a realistic determination. All I can do is to report the "symptoms" and let the experts make a "diagnosis."

My 40 min recording happened when I was watching the show while it was recording but going through the "List" (to avoid being kicked out the live). When the recording stopped early the box did not reboot. I was able to switch over to Live and continue watching as I was only about 5 mins behind. When I tried to pause the Live feed, the pause was where the recoding stopped (40 mins in). When I hit play it went back to Live. When I tried to start a new recording useing the record button while in the live feed, it started at the beginning of the buffer (i.e if it was 7:50 realtime, the new recording would start at 6:50). The box did not freeze or reboot during any of this. I was using an external. I since (the last couple of days) haven't seen this happen again on Broadcast TV. It did happen yesterday on a movie from HDnet but those channles have been flaky as of late. My SARA version is in my sig.

pepar

11-15-06, 02:28 PM

Has anyone had any success using this particular drive?

Western Digital Caviar SE16 SD5000KS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/sec

Is this one that has been optimised for streaming video, like the Maxtor Quickview series that I know is popular hereabouts? I can't tell from it's online description...
Something from their "CE" line would be the WD equivalent of the Maxtor Quickview drives - http://westerndigital.com/en/products/ce/index.asp?Language=en

Scarlett

11-15-06, 02:33 PM

My 40 min recording happened when I was watching the show while it was recording but going through the "List" (to avoid being kicked out the live). When the recording stopped early the box did not reboot. I was able to switch over to Live and continue watching as I was only about 5 mins behind. When I tried to pause the Live feed, the pause was where the recoding stopped (40 mins in). When I hit play it went back to Live. When I tried to start a new recording useing the record button while in the live feed, it started at the beginning of the buffer (i.e if it was 7:50 realtime, the new recording would start at 6:50). The box did not freeze or reboot during any of this. I was using an external. I since (the last couple of days) haven't seen this happen again on Broadcast TV. It did happen yesterday on a movie from HDnet but those channles have been flaky as of late. My SARA version is in my sig.Right. I was already familiar with your scenario. My question was to jchandlerhall. Just wondering if his experience was similar to yours and to mine.

Just got off the phone with TW here in Austin. A new wrinkle is that I have no information on either of my hard drives in the Diagnostic Pages! The Tech told me that it was because I have an external hard drive connected, they do not support external hard drives, blah, blah, blah. I have always had this information available to me on both 8300HD DVRs. I believe it is something that TW has done to make this information unavailable. When I get back from my doctor's appt., I will begin my step-by-step testing and will report my findings.

Incidentally, my DVR recorded only 8 minutes of "Law & Order" last night! I was unaware of that when I made my earlier post. I thought everything recorded, but I was mistaken. It was another NBC recording, and I had my earlier problem with the NBC news, but it appears that my 9:00 p.m. CBS program recorded the full one hour, so I doubt that the box rebooted after the "freeze" occurred on the NBC program. Grrrrrr.......

Scarlett

archiguy

11-15-06, 03:56 PM

Something from their "CE" line would be the WD equivalent of the Maxtor Quickview drives - http://westerndigital.com/en/products/ce/index.asp?Language=en

Yes, that seems to be the case. Unfortunately, their web site lists only a 250GB version in the "CE" line. I wonder whether the SE16 type drive I listed is somehow inferior, or will result in glitchy recordings? The specs indicate it's one of their premium products.... but I just don't know if it's "as good as" their CE line for this purpose? The blurb on this 250GB CE drive mentions: " This drive is not designed to work with PCs. It is configured for streaming video." There is no such "restriction" placed on the SE16 line. Found a good deal on that one w/ an enclosure at newegg.

I've decided I'm going to jump into the external drive waters after lurking about this thread for the last few weeks. I'm just trying to find a 400-500GB drive optimized for streaming digital video at the best possible price (i.e. around $200 or less). It's tougher than I thought it would be. :D

redjr

11-15-06, 04:39 PM

...I've decided I'm going to jump into the external drive waters after lurking about this thread for the last few weeks. I'm just trying to find a 400-500GB drive optimized for streaming digital video at the best possible price (i.e. around $200 or less). It's tougher than I thought it would be. :D
archiguy,

I've decided to do the same thing. Just placed an order for the Apricorn enclosure from Newegg. Haven't decided on a drive yet though, so let us know what you finally settle on. I may stop at the MicroCenter on my way to the airport tomorrow afternoon and see what they have. :D

redjr... :)

pepar

11-15-06, 04:45 PM

Yes, that seems to be the case. Unfortunately, their web site lists only a 250GB version in the "CE" line. I wonder whether the SE16 type drive I listed is somehow inferior, or will result in glitchy recordings? The specs indicate it's one of their premium products.... but I just don't know if it's "as good as" their CE line for this purpose? The blurb on this 250GB CE drive mentions: " This drive is not designed to work with PCs. It is configured for streaming video." There is no such "restriction" placed on the SE16 line. Found a good deal on that one w/ an enclosure at newegg.

I've decided I'm going to jump into the external drive waters after lurking about this thread for the last few weeks. I'm just trying to find a 400-500GB drive optimized for streaming digital video at the best possible price (i.e. around $200 or less). It's tougher than I thought it would be. :D
In Charlotte, you're on Passport, which seems to be less afflicted than SARA in this aspect. There was even talk about defeating error correction on drives attached to a SARA box. My preference for the Quickviews was merely to remove a possible problem. With others using non-Quickviews since, that seems unnecessary. The Quickview 500 will set you back about 300 clams.

archiguy

11-15-06, 04:58 PM

In Charlotte, you're on Passport, which seems to be less afflicted than SARA in this aspect. There was even talk about defeating error correction on drives attached to a SARA box. My preference for the Quickviews was merely to remove a possible problem. With others using non-Quickviews since, that seems unnecessary. The Quickview 500 will set you back about 300 clams.

Yeah, being the cheapskate I am, I'm not quite ready to "shell" out that many "clams". :D

If I can get some confirmation that the SE16 series 500GB drive will play nicely with the 8300, then that's the way I will go as it is considerably cheaper and does appear to be a premium product. In addition, if TWC yanks SATA "support" down the line, then at least I can re-use the drive with my computer to, you know, store computer files n' stuff. Can't do that with the CE series drives, so they say.

pepar

11-15-06, 06:58 PM

If I can get some confirmation that the SE16 series 500GB drive will play nicely with the 8300, then that's the way I will go as it is considerably cheaper and does appear to be a premium product. In addition, if TWC yanks SATA "support" down the line, then at least I can re-use the drive with my computer to, you know, store computer files n' stuff. Can't do that with the CE series drives, so they say.
Good points.

archiguy

11-15-06, 08:13 PM

I was so curious about the differences in drives, in fact, that I called Western Digital and talked to one of their techs. I asked him: a) Why the CE series drives are almost twice as expensive as the SE16 series drives in spite of having identical specs. He sort of fumbled around and said something about the CE series "having better parts". Riiiiight. And... b) What is it about the CE series drives not being able to work in computers? He said there may be something in their circuitry that doesn't recognize the Windows operating system. Well, he may have something there, I dunno....

In short, I learned basically nothing. Typical tech call. ;)

hdlern

11-15-06, 10:11 PM

pepar

11-15-06, 10:30 PM

I was so curious about the differences in drives, in fact, that I called Western Digital and talked to one of their techs. I asked him: a) Why the CE series drives are almost twice as expensive as the SE16 series drives in spite of having identical specs. He sort of fumbled around and said something about the CE series "having better parts".
Plausible, but doubtful.

b) What is it about the CE series drives not being able to work in computers? He said there may be something in their circuitry that doesn't recognize the Windows operating system.
Horsefeathers!

roadsterdoc

11-16-06, 01:34 AM

Is it possible to transfer a recording that is on the 8300's internal drive to the external drive?

Scarlett

11-16-06, 02:28 AM

Hi folks,

I am new to this forum, and want to thank all the posters that helped me to set up my Sara driven 8300 external SATA drive.... But....

I purcahsed a WD5000KS 500gb drive. In fact I am on my second one because I thought the first one was defective. Seems it wasn't. I am unable to ge the 8300 to recognize this dive with my APRICORN EZ-BUS. I tried a Maxtor SATA II 200gb drive that works perfect, but just can't get the WD to work at all. The first one I had came up with messages that the power or connections to the external drive were bad or incorrect (they were fine) I did get it to recognize once for 5 min, then everyhting froze up and it never would accept it again. The second WD comes up correctly with the message to format, but never comes back with a reply after hitting the 'A' button and never updates the memory. I will say the Maxtor has ben flawless from the start everytime, but it is onlt a 200gb.... Anyway long winded way to cut to the chase... Does anybody know of an issue with either this particular WD dive not working, or not compatable with the Apricorn (which is rated to 500gb). Any help would be much appreciated..... Thanks!I use nothing except Apricorn enclosures, and I have been successful with Maxtor, WD, and Seagate 300GB drives. I currently am having problems with a 400GB Seagate in an Apricorn enclosure; however, it was detected and formatted, and although I never received the usual confirmation, programs are being recorded on it, albeit with frequent lockups and/or pixellation. Even though I finally achieved success with all of the 300GB drives in Apricorn enclosures, I initially received the same error messages that you have reported. You just have to keep rebooting and retrying until it finally works!

If I had to guess, I would say that your problems are caused by the 500GB hard drive and not by the Apricorn enclosure--especially since your 200GB was flawless, as were my 300GB drives. Not everyone has been successful with the larger drives, but some have managed to get 750GB drives to perform well. It seems that the Passport users are the ones who succeed with the larger drives, even though SARA users had the external drive capability first. There are many different revisions of the SARA firmware, and that may be why some hard drives work and others don't, but I don't know that for a fact. All I do know is that trial and error is the only way to achieve any degree of success. There are no hard and fast rules--and your cable company won't be able to help at all.

I am still trying to locate the Revision History for SARA. If I discover anything that addresses the large hard drive issue, I will report that. In the meantime, I remain convinced that the Apricorn enclosure is an excellent choice. I have never tried your particular model of Western Digital drive, so I don't know if it could be the problem. You will see from other posts that the hard drive most recommended is one that is specifically designed for streaming video. There is at least one WD and one Maxtor with that specification. Don't know if yours is one of those, but I think the WD mentioned is a CE and not an SE model.

If misery loves company, please know that I feel your pain and share your frustration--as do many others here. Read the posts, keep trying, and report your success or failures.

Good luck!

Scarlett

archiguy

11-16-06, 07:06 AM

.......I have never tried your particular model of Western Digital drive, so I don't know if it could be the problem. You will see from other posts that the hard drive most recommended is one that is specifically designed for streaming video. There is at least one WD and one Maxtor with that specification. Don't know if yours is one of those, but I think the WD mentioned is a CE and not an SE model.

No, I believe the hard drive 'hdlern' is speaking of is the very one I was discussing just a few posts above and asked about in post # 3173 on the previous page. It's that SE16 series drive, not the CE series recommended for streaming video (right, 'hdlern'...?). And considering we know about SARA users having trouble with large drives, it's not terribly surprising.

Anybody with Passport using this drive, or an equivalent large capacity "regular" (not optimized for streaming video) drive, with success?

Anybody??

pepar

11-16-06, 09:21 AM

Is it possible to transfer a recording that is on the 8300's internal drive to the external drive?
No.

jruhnke

11-16-06, 09:23 AM

Is it possible to transfer a recording that is on the 8300's internal drive to the external drive?Nope. Once content is recorded, the only control you have over it is choosing when you want to delete it.

pepar

11-16-06, 09:34 AM

FWIW, I'm suspicious of any SATA enclosure that has any other output than SATA. I've not looked at the Apricot/Unicorn :) enclosures that have become popular lately, but I have seen a post that refers to one as being "rated to 500GB" and this could be an indication of extra circuitry in the SATA signal path. My kinda enclosure has either a physical connector that mates to the drive inside and is also the eSATA connector, or has small jumpers inside. Enclosures like this care not a whit about the size of the drive inside.

I do not know if additional outputs/circuitry is the cause of SARAistas' incompatibility problems, but eliminating that as a possibility might be worth trying.

Riverside_Guy

11-16-06, 10:26 AM

FWIW, if a scheduled recording is happening and the box does a reboot, it will pick up and start recording automatically after the reboot. There have been a couple of times that I was playing around during a commercial break that got the box confused so I needed to manually re-boot, there were times when it just did the reboot on it's own.

While the software running the box gives us some amazing capabilities, it's nowhere near rock-steady reliable. AND (at least in TWC systems) we are looking at them moving to a new application to replace both SARA and Passport, so I seriously doubt there are any concentrated efforts to make those more reliable. My guess is only enough resources are being devoted to keep them limping along.

Didn't we "learn" that the drives in those QuickExpander Maxtor's are actually IDE/ATA drives? It's not that complicated to use a SATA "connection" to work with a IDE/ATA drive. Having worked with tons of drives with numerous systems over many years, most of the issues are with the host system, not the drive itself. Indeed drives can fail at the hardware level, but this is actually fairly rare. As with most things in life, you'll find many heated debates over this drive or that drive. My experience is that I can not in any way say any one is "better" than another... having used them all (trust me, I do "push" my drives more than most, I've been using software based arrays for over 10 years and run my internal drives 24/7/365). The ONLY drives I could ever say "stay away from" are the very early 10k Barracudas. It took Seagate about 6 months (as I recall) to sort out the heat issues and after that, they were good to go.

redjr

11-16-06, 10:54 AM

Scarlett

11-16-06, 02:29 PM

No, I believe the hard drive 'hdlern' is speaking of is the very one I was discussing just a few posts above and asked about in post # 3173 on the previous page. It's that SE16 series drive, not the CE series recommended for streaming video (right, 'hdlern'...?). And considering we know about SARA users having trouble with large drives, it's not terribly surprising.That's what I was trying to say, but didn't do a very good job saying it! I didn't mean the WD drive that he mentioned, but rather the CE model referred to by pepar:
Something from their "CE" line would be the WD equivalent of the Maxtor Quickview drives - http://westerndigital.com/en/produc...asp?Language=enAfter discovering that QuickView hard drives are in short supply and no longer being shipped by the manufacturer, it occurred to me that Seagate (which purchased Maxtor this year) also might have a product line like this. They do. It's their DB35 series, and I have found them up to 500GB at various online stores. I can't remember the names--it was 4:30 this morning, and I was headed for bed! I do have the model number for the Seagate 500GB in this DB35 line, though--it is ST3500841SCE. The 400GB model is ST3400833SCE, and I found it for less than $200. As well as I remember, the 500GB model is less than $300. The recording capacities for the 500GB and 400GB, respectively, are 93 hours and 74 hours for HD MPEG-4. Transfer rate for both is 3GB/sec. I do not know if there is a jumper to force the 1.5GB/sec transfer rate. The cache for the 200GB through the 500GB drives is only 8MB. There are 80GB, 120GB, and 160GB models also available in this line, and their cache is only 2MB.

Because I am a Seagate "diehard," and because I believe that this new Seagate line is the replacement for the Maxtor QuickView, I am going to buy either the 400GB or 500GB model to see whether this will solve my freezing and macro-blocking problems. I lost "Criminal Minds" to a freeze last night--that makes 3 total programs that I have lost. I got the full 2 hours of "Daybreak," but the buffer behaved strangely--I could FF through the commercials, but the pointer never moved on the green buffer display. Interestingly enough, and perhaps because it was the only HD program being recorded, and maybe also because I was not watching a previously recorded show, there was minimal macro-blocking.

Someone mentioned earlier that TW is going to do away with both SARA and Passport and move us to an entirely new firmware/software. Would this be "Navigator"? I asked the TW Tech when it would be coming to Austin, and he had no idea. He wasn't aware that it is already available in Wisconsin--if it is. I think someone provided a link to that effect, and after reading the features included in Navigator, I believe that it provides almost exactly the same features we have with TiVo. This might be a welcome change, but only if we are still able to have external drives! Since we can't yet with the Series 3 TiVo, this may be a mixed blessing.

I have one source at TW who may be able to give me an ETA for Navigator here, and he may be able to tell me whether or not external drives will be an option. If it's coming soon, I may just live with my 300GB SATA drive and its minimal problems. If not, I am willing to make the additional <$200 investment to see if the Seagate DB35 7200.2 400GB drive will be the ultimate solution for SARA users, but after that, I have reached the "end of my rope." :) I guess I should ask, has any SARA user bought one of these drives, and if so, what was the result?

Hope springs eternal.

Scarlett

davehancock

11-16-06, 04:07 PM

jchandlerhall

11-16-06, 05:16 PM

Right. I was already familiar with your scenario. My question was to jchandlerhall. Just wondering if his experience was similar to yours and to mine.

Scarlett

I wasn't watching anything at the time, was away from the house. I also don't believe anything else was set to record at that same time. So the 2/3 missing housewives episode occurred and it wasn't a buffer issue, I believe.

I'm on at least 1.88...looked last night but didn't expect to need the complete numbers today. I seema to remember an end like .a1 ; I'll try to check 2nite.

hdlern

11-16-06, 07:33 PM

:mad: Well I give up, thanks for all the responses. The wd5000ks 500gb (western digital) will not work properly with my APRICORN running SARA on my 8300. It comes up with the message to format - then thats it, no confirmation, no icreased space, nothing. The diagnostic page does show the drive with the space, but thats the only place. I even tried every single jumper setting just for fun. Dozens of reboots (all hard). Can't explain it, but I guess it goes back. Shame, picked it up cheap. Next I'll try a Maxtor 500gb I guess, and if that;s no goodm work myself down the GB chain to a lower number. Again my 200gb Maxtor Basics SATA II drive ($59 Office Depot this week) works fantastic, but I want more space. Open to any last thoughts before dumping out. Someone suggested mabe the Apricorn was the problem but I do not believe so. The Apricorn passes through the SATA directly with no circuitry. Only circuitry is for power. :mad:

pepar

11-16-06, 07:45 PM

I wasn't watching anything at the time, was away from the house. I also don't believe anything else was set to record at that same time. So the 2/3 missing housewives episode occurred and it wasn't a buffer issue, I believe.

I'm on at least 1.88...looked last night but didn't expect to need the complete numbers today. I seema to remember an end like .a1 ; I'll try to check 2nite.
Look at dave's sig in the post just above yours. Could that be it?

pepar

11-16-06, 07:49 PM

hdlern

11-16-06, 07:54 PM

Not to prolong your pain, but if it formats and is shown anywhere in DIAGs, what makes you say it's not working? Have you tried recording and playing?

The reason I say it is not working is that the memory % does not go down and after recording 5 shows nothing went to that drive.... I don't get it.... :confused:

pepar

11-16-06, 07:59 PM

The reason I say it is not working is that the memory % does not go down and after recording 5 shows nothing went to that drive.... I don't get it.... :confused:
Did the internal drive's capacities change?

pepar

11-16-06, 08:08 PM

RE: Navigator or "Mystro" (the code name). It is being tested in Lincoln, Nebrasca, not Wisconsin. Here is a link to their web site. (http://www.timewarnercable.com/nebraska/products/cable/mdn/mdn_dvr.html).

There is an AVS thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830&page=1) that discusses this (if you can get by the pro-TiVo rhetoric by some). The first release appears to be pretty lame.
Mystro . . Mystro . . isn't that sort of like TiVo, but lets cable networks prevent people from time shifting certain shows and inserts commercials when viewers hit the pause button?

hdlern

11-16-06, 08:14 PM

Did the internal drive's capacities change?

Nope, no internal drive changes. the couple of hours of shows total on the drive took 8%. about right for the 160gb internal for HD recordings.... Crazy

pepar

11-16-06, 08:17 PM

Nope, no internal drive changes. the couple of hours of shows total on the drive took 8%. about right for the 160gb internal for HD recordings.... Crazy
Then trying recording more and see what happens.

davehancock

11-16-06, 08:40 PM

Nope, no internal drive changes. the couple of hours of shows total on the drive took 8%. about right for the 160gb internal for HD recordings.... CrazyJust one additional suggestion (you might have done it already) - do a 2nd reboot after the format? In many cases that is also needed - the first to format the drive, the 2nd for the 8300 to recognize it. As I recall, the original posts in this thread had you do that.

We start to loose focus on this due to the co-mingling of Passport and SARA :rolleyes:

pepar

11-16-06, 09:03 PM

We start to loose focus on this due to the co-mingling of Passport and SARA :rolleyes:
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain . . . :cool:

davehancock

11-16-06, 09:43 PM

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain . . . :cool:
But, unlike the Wizzard, he has no leverage :D

hdlern

11-16-06, 11:30 PM

Just one additional suggestion (you might have done it already) - do a 2nd reboot after the format? In many cases that is also needed - the first to format the drive, the 2nd for the 8300 to recognize it. As I recall, the original posts in this thread had you do that.

We start to loose focus on this due to the co-mingling of Passport and SARA :rolleyes:

Well, I have to thank you - kinda. After reading your post I knew this had been done, but I figured why not take it out of the box one last time and try a static double boot. I took out my working Maxtor 200gb, inserted the wd5000ks 500gb, hard booted the first time and BOOM- there is was a perfect format with confirmation!

Storage used dropped to from 39% to 15%. No second reboot... I swear I did this 50 times earlier. Whatever, gremlins I guess. This time I did notice in the diagnostic screens instead of just recognizing the drive itself, it now also see's the full space of it as th AVFS partion 2 - which was not the previous case when it would not work. then it just zeroed out

Now the question is can the system power down and ever see it again? I think I will leave that test for tomorrow after I've done some record tests and see that it stays up all night without freezing out. I would love a technical explination of what the f--- was going on that suddenly disappered. :eek:

pepar

11-16-06, 11:40 PM

Well, I have to thank you - kinda. After reading your post I knew this had been done, but I figured why not take it out of the box one last time and try a static double boot. I took out my working Maxtor 200gb, inserted the wd5000ks 500gb, hard booted the first time and BOOM- there is was a perfect format with confirmation!

Storage used dropped to from 39% to 15%. No second reboot... I swear I did this 50 times earlier. Whatever, gremlins I guess. This time I did notice in the diagnostic screens instead of just recognizing the drive itself, it now also see's the full space of it as th AVFS partion 2 - which was not the previous case when it would not work. then it just zeroed out

Now the question is can the system power down and ever see it again?
Leave the drive on all the time. And the box powered, but off when not in use.

hdlern

11-16-06, 11:51 PM

Leave the drive on all the time. And the box powered, but off when not in use.

Absolutely, but what happens when I have a black out. Will it all come back... now thats the $50k question.... Thanks for all your suggestions!

pepar

11-17-06, 12:06 AM

Absolutely, but what happens when I have a black out. Will it all come back... now thats the $50k question.... Thanks for all your suggestions!
I've had a few blackouts and everything came back up normally when electricity ws restored. The 8300HD did tell me that the drive was attached. The only choice was OK, and after pressing that everything operated normally.

Scarlett

11-17-06, 01:50 AM

Scarlett,

RE: Navigator or "Mystro" (the code name). It is being tested in Lincoln, Nebrasca, not Wisconsin. Here is a link to their web site. (http://www.timewarnercable.com/nebraska/products/cable/mdn/mdn_dvr.html).

There is an AVS thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830&page=1) that discusses this (if you can get by the pro-TiVo rhetoric by some). The first release appears to be pretty lame.

There also is a thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=733414&page=1) started by Diana Smith, who is transitioning to a new management position (apparently working on Mystro) at TW headquarters. Her participation in the last couple of weeks has been spotty due to her relocating from South Carolina to CStamford (what a change $$$$$). She has indicated two things: 1) They will be rolling this out first on Passport systems (it apparently needs help more than SARA) and it PROBABLY will support an external drive (I sort of have my doubts about that, but we all need to push that with her).Dave, thanks for all the links. I have read the entire Navigator thread (started by your "good friend" Jacksonian), and Navigator apparently is being tested in Wisconsin also. I got that idea from this:
I like the way it functions. Functionally it is up there with all of the other boxes I've had from TW (6 now I think). The path to acessing menus and programing is improved. Example: Hitting the A button brings you to the Acess menu. From there are now horizontal options on the bottom of the screen, similar to what you find in the on demand programing. They include Free on Demand, Premium n demand, sports now, news and weather now, HDTV now, and Home which includes: Settings, Movies on Demand, Wisconsin on Demand (where I live), and Find Shows.I subscribe to the "Diana" thread also, and I may have picked up something there about Wisconsin, but Nebraska is definitely one of the test markets as you pointed out. It doesn't sound like much of an improvement at this point. I believe that someone predicted that Texas will be getting Navigator in the first quarter of 2007. I will be checking with my source at TW here in Austin to see if that means our SARA units as well. I really hope that we get to keep the external drives. I have temporarily disconnected my external SATA drive in order to fill up the internal drive first, and it should be full by tomorrow night! It was totally empty at 7:00 p.m. tonight, and it is now 44% full with only 11 recordings! The external drive would be a tremendous loss for all of us who have become accustomed to it. I will drop in on the TW thread and add my vote. I would also like to see the SA boxes start shipping with larger internal hard drives and more memory. Well, I can dream, too. :)

Scarlett

archiguy

11-17-06, 06:44 AM

Riverside_Guy

11-17-06, 09:58 AM

Mystro . . Mystro . . isn't that sort of like TiVo, but lets cable networks prevent people from time shifting certain shows and inserts commercials when viewers hit the pause button?

I don't think that's the thrust. As I understand it, Mystro is an OCAP enabled application. Essentially meaning that the cable company will have a more advanced platform to sell you additional services. There's also a possible issue of a desire to move all TWC customers to a single software platform (where have we heard that before?). For customers, that will probably mean we ALL will feel the same pain; right now the passport and SARA pains are different!

While I'd love to see it support some new things, I'd FAR rather it fix the most egregious outstanding issues. Like Dave said, a lot of us think full and proper support for external storage is "our" number one issue. I think it was in the top 3 issues Diana noticed, so if you agree it IS number one, go to the thread Dave mentioned and post!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8922077#post8922077

xnappo

11-17-06, 10:32 AM

hdlern,

Can you try doing a stress test?

Record two HD shows, then after 1 minute go to the list and play from the beginning. Watch for 5 minutes for any breakup.

I got my Maxtor drive yesterday - unfortunately with the stress test above, I get even more breakup than with the Seagate :( As a last ditch effort I am going to try formatting it under Windows and trying again.

pepar,
I took apart my case and see that for the eSATA connection the traces go straight out. The traces then connect through 0ohm resistors to the SATA->USB chip. I suppose I could take them off and see if it helps, additional loading on a 1.5Gbs differential signal might not be too nice.

Scarlett,
With your drives that work - were they formatted by the software back when we were still on 1.87.xx?

Thanks,
xnappo

davehancock

11-17-06, 10:42 AM

Absolutely, but what happens when I have a black out. Will it all come back... now thats the $50k question.... Thanks for all your suggestions!

First, I am going to keep repeating this: Sorry that the co-mingling of software systems kept us from getting you the correct answer sooner. :o

Second, don't worry about power outs. When the power comes back the 8300 goes through a routine. The external drive will be up and spinning before the 8300 looks for it. You will get a message after it powers up that there is an external drive that it can use.

Again: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR SARA ONLY!

pepar

11-17-06, 12:04 PM

Mini-rant edited out for brevity. :)

. . don't worry about power outs. When the power comes back the 8300 goes through a routine. The external drive will be up and spinning before the 8300 looks for it. You will get a message after it powers up that there is an external drive that it can use.

Again: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR SARA ONLY!
Please tell me why this is for SARA only as this is exactly what my Passport 8300HD does in this situation.

RaveD

11-17-06, 01:03 PM

I got my Maxtor drive yesterday - unfortunately with the stress test above, I get even more breakup than with the Seagate :( As a last ditch effort I am going to try formatting it under Windows and trying again.

Unfortunately that might not be very fruitful. I'm on my second drive, and I used Maxtor utilities to do a complete low-level format followed by a Windows NTFS format before attaching it to the 8300HD. There was no improvement.

What enclosure are you using? I don't want to jinx myself, but I just switched from an ePower to a Rosewill and so far I have experienced NO breakups. This makes me wonder if the actual SATA connection from the drive to the 8300 needs to be rock solid to prevent problems.

davehancock

11-17-06, 01:36 PM

Please tell me why this is for SARA only as this is exactly what my Passport 8300HD does in this situation.
That's the point: I don't know what Passport does in this situation (but you do). I was simply saying the the information that I provided applies to SARA. You know very well that these two systems act differently and that we need to make sure people know which one we are talking about!

hdlern

11-17-06, 02:08 PM

hdlern - I asked you this in a post earlier, but you must not have seen it.... are you certain that this drive is the "SE16" series drive from Western Digital? It will be in the name of the drive; look on the box if you need to. Thanks.

Hey Archieguy,

Sorry I missed the question the first time. Yes the WD5000KS is part of Western Digitals Caviar SE16 line. FYI- the system stayed up all night, recorded shows, and is playing back with no breakups or issues. Just wish I knew why it took so long to make the 8300 recognize the damb thing. I also did a power down to make sure it would continue seeing it after a blackout. No problems there either, came right back up with the proper message. So end of story, all seems to be well with this drive, if you can get it to initially see and format it. I bet I hard booted 30 times or more. FYI- do not use any jumper settings with this drive.... :)

hdlern

11-17-06, 02:14 PM

archiguy

11-17-06, 02:15 PM

Hey Archieguy,

Sorry I missed the question the first time. Yes the WD5000KS is part of Western Digitals Caviar SE16 line. FYI- the system stayed up all night, recorded shows, and is playing back with no breakups or issues. Just wish I knew why it took so long to make the 8300 recognize the damb thing. I also did a power down to make sure it would continue seeing it after a blackout. No problems there either, came right back up with the proper message. So end of story, all seems to be well with this drive, if you can get it to initially see and format it. I bet I hard booted 30 times or more. FYI- do not use any jumper settings with this drive.... :)

Wonderful! That's very good news regarding such a large drive, especially for you being on SARA. With me being on Passport, it's probably an even better bet to work well also. Looks like my decision is made! :)

xnappo

11-17-06, 02:37 PM

What enclosure are you using? I don't want to jinx myself, but I just switched from an ePower to a Rosewill and so far I have experienced NO breakups. This makes me wonder if the actual SATA connection from the drive to the 8300 needs to be rock solid to prevent problems.

I am using an AZIO enclosure from NewEgg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817106098

I would like to try one that is only a SATA->eSATA connection, but I can't seen to find one?

xnappo

hdlern

11-17-06, 03:02 PM

I am using an AZIO enclosure from NewEgg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817106098

I would like to try one that is only a SATA->eSATA connection, but I can't seen to find one?

xnappo

I believe the one that you would like is the APRICORN

http://www.buy.com/prod/Apricorn_SATA_Backup_External_Storage_System_3_5_HDD_Not_Inc luded/q/loc/101/202641074.html

It comes with the SATA to ESATA cabe included. Also has a quiet fan. I have this myself and love it. And if you use GOOGLE checkout it will deduct $10 for a total of $39. Great deal I think. This is the one that has my 500gb wd5000ks in it. Hope this helps

RaveD

11-17-06, 03:27 PM

I am using an AZIO enclosure from NewEgg:
[url]I would like to try one that is only a SATA->eSATA connection, but I can't seen to find one?
The Rosewill uses an eSATA<->eSATA connection. The drive is attached with no extra cabling and seems very secure. The fan is a bit loud, but at least it has one. So far I am very encouraged...

Riverside_Guy

11-17-06, 04:01 PM

FYI, if an enclosure has a SATA to eSATA cable, that means it has an external SATA port that was not meant or designed for external use. This did happen a bit before the eSATA connector got "accepted." If you have one of these, be careful of the plain SATA connector, try not to plug and unplug it too much (one of the hallmarks of an external connector is the ability to go through tons of plug-unplug cycles).

archiguy

11-17-06, 04:04 PM

Um..... what's the difference between a SATA<->eSATA connection and a eSATA<->eSATA connection? Which one is recommended for connection to an SA8300 DVR?

pepar

11-17-06, 04:12 PM

Um..... what's the difference between a SATA<->eSATA connection and a eSATA<->eSATA connection? Which one is recommended for connection to an SA8300 DVR?
SATA on Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

pepar

11-17-06, 04:19 PM

Here's a graphical reference on the different Serial ATA connectors - http://www.cooldrives.com/saiandsaiiin.html

redjr

11-17-06, 07:25 PM

...Sorry if you already posted that and I just didn't search. :D
Thou shalt search for the answer first!.... :D

redjr... :)

No, my enclosure hasn't arrived, and I haven't selected a drive - yet. I'm searching the thread for recommendations, but it sounds like a variety 'may' work. Operative word - may. :eek:

pepar

11-17-06, 07:35 PM

Thou shalt search for the answer first!.... :D

redjr... :)
Thanks, I deserved that. :)

skanter1

11-17-06, 07:54 PM

The Rosewill uses an eSATA<->eSATA connection. The drive is attached with no extra cabling and seems very secure. The fan is a bit loud, but at least it has one. So far I am very encouraged...

I thought it was very cool the way the drive slipped right into the case with no cabling. Seems efficient and secure. I like the Rosewill case a lot, and so far (with 320GB Seagate) has been working perfectly with SA8300.

cuzzin

11-18-06, 04:19 PM

Hey all. I have been looking for an answer to a problem I've been having with my 8300HD/SATA drive for a while around here and haven't had much luck. I recently added a 500GB Seagate internal drive with a Coolmax enclosure to my 8300HD and have been noticing a lot more glitches in the recordings than I used to have prior to adding the drive. All my recordings used to be perfect for the most part before, but lately, I've noticed more picture distortion while recording. It's not even that it records good and plays back bad; it seems as soon as I push record, the picture just doesn't play as clear for some reason. For about one second at a time, the picture gets all "blocky" and sometimes the audio skips at the same time. I know it's common for this type of thing to happen every now and then with high definition broadcasts, but since the addition of the drive, it's been happening a LOT more. I was able to tolerate it at first, but not it's REALLY starting to get annoying. Does anyone know why this might be happening and if there's a way to fix this? I'd really appreciate anyone who can shed light on this situation.

davehancock

11-18-06, 04:54 PM

cuzzin,

It would help to get the answer sooner if you would include your location in your profile and the software that your 8300 uses in your signature. Check here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6225742&&#post6225742) to find out how to find whether you are SARA or Passport.

belgiangenius

11-18-06, 05:40 PM

davehancock

11-18-06, 06:30 PM

Anyone know how to get the 8300HD to recognize a new external HDD and format it after you've already been using a different one? It just keeps telling me it can't find the external drive and to check the cabling.

Please do the same as I requested in the post just before yours. There are two different software used (SARA and Passport) and the set-up is different for each. Or have you bothered to read ANY of this thread?

DoubleDAZ

11-18-06, 07:59 PM

cuzzin,

When you say "not as clear", are you talking about macro-blocking type glitches where the picture breaks up and you lose audio for a second? Or are you saying the picture is softer, colors more subdued, etc., when you press Record?

belgiangenius

11-18-06, 10:20 PM

Please do the same as I requested in the post just before yours. There are two different software used (SARA and Passport) and the set-up is different for each. Or have you bothered to read ANY of this thread?

Done. Anyone got an answer on how to format a new drive?

cuzzin

11-19-06, 12:17 AM

davehancock,
I looked it up through the diagnostic screen and I am running SARA version 1.88.22.1
My location is League City, Texas, right outside Houston. Time Warner is my cable provider.

DoubleDAZ,
I'm actually almost positive I'm talking about macro-blocking. I know it occurs every now and then in HD broadcasts, but, as I said, the addition of the drive seems to have elevated the number of times this happens during recording. I'd say it happens at least 10 ten times an hour, and that's minimum. The picture is as good as it always was when I'm not recording, but as soon as I hit that record button, the picture is chock-full of macro-blocking.

Appreciate the help.

pepar

11-19-06, 11:59 AM

davehancock

11-19-06, 12:50 PM

Anyone know how to get the 8300HD to recognize a new external HDD and format it after you've already been using a different one? It just keeps telling me it can't find the external drive and to check the cabling.

I'm using the 8300HD with Sara software.
What pepar is saying:Going back and editing your "original" post to include (incomplete) information requested by someone else in a subsequent post does not count. means, please alter your profile and signature to include your LOCATION and DVR software (SARA), including version number (1.88.17.a100). That way, when you post a question the right people are in a better position to give you the right answer.

I have not gone through the procedure, but I would guess that your 8300 is expecting the external drive. I'd suggest first teaching it that there is not one by doing a HARD Reboot (unplug 8300, wait 30 sec., plug 8300 back in WHILE HOLDING FRONT PANEL POWER BUTTON till "boot" appears) with no external drive connected. Then repeat the normal installation procedure with the new drive (reboot with new drive to format it and then do one more reboot to make system recognze it).

Bellavance

11-19-06, 01:06 PM

davehancock

11-19-06, 01:56 PM

My Sara 8300HD is filling fast, and I'm therefore ready to jump. I've tried searching through 3200 messages in this thread, but I'm totally lost with SATA types, cables, etc...

My questions are as follows:

1- I have two Maxtor 6L300S0 DiamondMax 300GB SATA 150 drives. Can I use one of these?

2- On Tiger Direct Canada (http://www.tigerdirect.ca) I see a lot of enclosures for Hard Drives, from brands such as Cintre, Sabrent, Vantec, etc... but I'm all mixed up with interfaces, cables, dual connectors (USB 2.0 and some sort of SATA), etc... Can some people "in the know" give me (and the the others like me) specific recommendations as to what works and what doesn't, to help me out?

3- My last resort would be to purchase the Videotron Drive (http://www.videotron.com/services/en/television/accessoire-disque-dur-ext.jsp) and replace its 160GB drive with my 300GB drive. Can this be done?

Thanks.

PierreHi Pierre - a welcome from a Yahoo group regular (actually didn't you start that thread?).

The Vistron drive is an external 160GB drive, so you don't do anything inside your box. But, you indicated that you were thinking of buying that drive and replacing the internal drive with one of your 300GB dirves. That might work - but I've heard that some of the commercially available external drives meant for the 8300 actually used an IDE drive (a different type of interface). You can buy similar products with 250GB or 300GB drives from the states (either Maxtor or Western Digital).

However, as you already have a suitable 300GB Maxtor drive, you just need an enclosure (with Power Supply) and probably a cable (SATA to eSATA). Over time the available enclosures have changed, so check back a few pages and find what has been working for people recently.

xnappo

11-19-06, 03:26 PM

So my Maxtor 6L300S0 was working *worse* than my Seagate 7200.10.

I found this article, and did the power cycling it suggested:
http://www.ureader.co.uk/message/1223009.aspx

Interesting - I wonder if any other drives have this 'feature'?

It is now working the same as the 7200.10 (under stress test, breaks up every minute or so :( )

I am going to try:
1. Doing a hard reset, format etc and start over.
2. Buying an Apricorn case.

Regards,
xnappo

DoubleDAZ

11-19-06, 04:03 PM

The picture is as good as it always was when I'm not recording, but as soon as I hit that record button, the picture is chock-full of macro-blocking.Okay, 2 questions then (well, maybe more :) ):

1. What happens when a scheduled recording starts, the same thing?

2. What happens when you disconnect the SATA drive? Does recording on the internal drive return to normal? If it does, then something is probably wrong with the combination you are using, either the enclosure, the drive, or both and you might consider trying a different combination. Or you could try the same combination with a different 8300 if you can convince TWC to let you.

Hopefully, someone more familiar with SATA will have some added thoughts.

xnappo

11-19-06, 05:09 PM

cuzzin,

Same problem I am having.

1. What is the model number of your drive?
2. Does your external enclosure have both USB and SATA?

So far I have tried both a 400GB Seagate 7200.10 and 300GB Maxtor 6L300S0 with the same results. My case is an AZIO dual USB/SATA case, only thing I can think to try is a SATA only case at this point.

I am on SARA 1.88.17.a100.

xnappo

redjr

11-19-06, 05:53 PM

...The bottom line here is that the 300GB external SATA drive is being utilized, even though I never got confirmation that it was configured for use with the 8300HD. Interesting. This is also the same external drive that I used with my old 8300SD box, so it has been running constantly for over a year...Scarlett
Scarlett,

Is the Seagate drive you speak of here their stand-alone External that has the slim, 'square-ish' form-factor - complete with a power supply? If so, I noticed it is on sale and available from CompUSA for the next 4 days, and from your experience it seems to work effectively with the 8300HD. I may consider this drive especially at the discounted price.

I also have an Apricorn enclosure that should arrive tomorrow, and was looking at the WD5000KSRTL bare drive also on sale at CompUSA. Have you used this drive with the above enclosure? Thanks for any feedback and comments.

I'm not new to hard drives, and have used numerous USB and IP drives with my computers, but this is my first foray into eSATA for streaming/recording A/V and I gather from the posts here that an eSATA cable is a necessity! Hope one comes with my Apricorn, otherwise I may not be able to find one locally. :eek: