8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! [Text View] - Page 14

Scarlett

11-19-06, 08:32 PM

Scarlett,

Is the Seagate drive you speak of here their stand-alone External that has the slim, 'square-ish' form-factor - complete with a power supply? If so, I noticed it is on sale and available from CompUSA for the next 4 days, and from your experience it seems to work effectively with the 8300HD. I may consider this drive especially at the discounted price. No, it isn't a stand-alone. It is a Seagate ST3300831AS 300GB 7200.8 with a transfer rate of 1.5GB/sec. I used it in an Apricorn enclosure for over a year with a standard definition TV and as the external drive to an 8300SD DVR. When I got my HDTV, I upgraded to the 8300HD DVR and used the same external drive with it. I did experience some macro-blocking, but it was minimal. When I tried a Seagate 400GB 7200.10 with a 1.5/3.0GB transfer rate--but jumpered to force the 1.5GB/sec transfer rate--not only did I experience severe macro-blocking, but also freezes and truncated recordings. Right now I am enjoying flawless recordings with no external drive attached. Recording space available is only 30%, and when the drive is full, I am going to reconnect the external drive to see if the performance is better.

If you attach an external drive to an 8300HD that has no recordings on it, after the external drive is formatted, all recordings will go first to the external drive until it has less free space available than the internal drive does. The index for all recordings will always be on the internal drive, regardless of where the actual recording resides. It occurred to me that I had nearly filled my original internal drive before I added an external drive to it, and when I upgraded to the 8300HD, I immediately added the external drive, so all recording was being done on it instead of on the internal drive. Someone on the Forum mentioned that the internal drive is always trying to capture the buffer when space is available for recording. I don't know enough about the technology to know whether that makes a difference, but in order to simulate my success of a year ago, I am filling the internal drive before attaching an external drive! It will be full after tonight's scheduled recordings, so I can let you know after Monday night's recordings if what I have done makes any difference in the quality of the recordings.

I am going to use my original Seagate 300GB hard drive, because it is capable of only 1.5GB transfer rates, and that's what the 8300HD does. If I am successful with that one, I will then try the 400GB Seagate again to see if filling the internal drive first makes a difference with that one as well. I did have it jumpered to force the 1.5GB transfer rate, but others have reported that it performs better when left unjumpered and allowed to automatically negotiate the transfer rate, so I will try that first. If I have problems, I will try jumpering it again. If I still have problems, I will relegate it to PC-only use and either go back to the 300GB Seagate, or maybe buy one of the new Seagate DB-35 drives that has been optimized for streaming media.

I looked at the Seagate 300GB external eSATA hard drive at CompUSA. That's a decent price, but I would want to know which Seagate drive was used--not all 300GB Seagate drives are created equal--and I would want to know if the enclosure has a fan. I would not consider a fanless enclosure, but that's just me--and pepar. :) There are others who insist that a tight-fitting aluminum enclosure without a fan is just as effective as one with a fan. I just wouldn't take the chance.

I also have an Apricorn enclosure that should arrive tomorrow, and was looking at the WD5000KSRTL bare drive also on sale at CompUSA. Have you used this drive with the above enclosure? Thanks for any feedback and comments.I have not used any 500GB drive at all, but I also would want to know the model no. of the WD 500GB SATA drive that CompUSA is advertising, and then I would search for the specifications and any User Reviews that might be available. My internal drive on my 8300HD is a WD drive, and I have always thought that drives made by the same manufacturer might communicate better with each other than with a different brand, but my original Seagate external drive had no problem communicating with the Maxtor internal drive in the 8300SD DVR, so maybe it makes no difference at all. If I were going to try a WD 500GB drive, I would look for the one that has been manufactured specifically for use with streaming media. I think that is WD's CE series, based on information posted elsewhere in this thread. If I am incorrect, someone will correct me. :)

I'm not new to hard drives, and have used numerous USB and IP drives with my computers, but this is my first foray into eSATA for streaming/recording A/V and I gather from the posts here that an eSATA cable is a necessity! Hope one comes with my Apricorn, otherwise I may not be able to find one locally. :eek:I love my Apricorn enclosures and have four of them in service. Since you have bought one of the newer models, the correct cable will be included. I had to buy the cables for my first two, but they were included with the most recent two that I bought. Where did you find an Apricorn enclosure? Most of the online retailers have been out of stock recently.

Best of luck to you. Let us know what you decide and how it works out for you.

Scarlett

Scarlett

11-19-06, 08:38 PM

I have no real idea, but did you disconnect the cable from the 8300 or just the drive enclosure?I think you do have to disconnect the whole setup and wait awhile before reconnecting it with a different hard drive--at least that's what I was told.

Scarlett

redjr

11-19-06, 10:44 PM

No, it isn't a stand-alone. It is a Seagate ST3300831AS 300GB 7200.8 with a transfer rate of 1.5GB/sec. I used it in an Apricorn enclosure for over a year with a standard definition TV and as the external drive to an 8300SD DVR. When I got my HDTV, I upgraded to the 8300HD DVR and used the same external drive with it. I did experience some macro-blocking, but it was minimal. When I tried a Seagate 400GB 7200.10 with a 1.5/3.0GB transfer rate--but jumpered to force the 1.5GB/sec transfer rate--not only did I experience severe macro-blocking, but also freezes and truncated recordings. Right now I am enjoying flawless recordings with no external drive attached. Recording space available is only 30%, and when the drive is full, I am going to reconnect the external drive to see if the performance is better.

If you attach an external drive to an 8300HD that has no recordings on it, after the external drive is formatted, all recordings will go first to the external drive until it has less free space available than the internal drive does. The index for all recordings will always be on the internal drive, regardless of where the actual recording resides. It occurred to me that I had nearly filled my original internal drive before I added an external drive to it, and when I upgraded to the 8300HD, I immediately added the external drive, so all recording was being done on it instead of on the internal drive. Someone on the Forum mentioned that the internal drive is always trying to capture the buffer when space is available for recording. I don't know enough about the technology to know whether that makes a difference, but in order to simulate my success of a year ago, I am filling the internal drive before attaching an external drive! It will be full after tonight's scheduled recordings, so I can let you know after Monday night's recordings if what I have done makes any difference in the quality of the recordings.

I am going to use my original Seagate 300GB hard drive, because it is capable of only 1.5GB transfer rates, and that's what the 8300HD does. If I am successful with that one, I will then try the 400GB Seagate again to see if filling the internal drive first makes a difference with that one as well. I did have it jumpered to force the 1.5GB transfer rate, but others have reported that it performs better when left unjumpered and allowed to automatically negotiate the transfer rate, so I will try that first. If I have problems, I will try jumpering it again. If I still have problems, I will relegate it to PC-only use and either go back to the 300GB Seagate, or maybe buy one of the new Seagate DB-35 drives that has been optimized for streaming media.

I looked at the Seagate 300GB external eSATA hard drive at CompUSA. That's a decent price, but I would want to know which Seagate drive was used--not all 300GB Seagate drives are created equal--and I would want to know if the enclosure has a fan. I would not consider a fanless enclosure, but that's just me--and pepar. :) There are others who insist that a tight-fitting aluminum enclosure without a fan is just as effective as one with a fan. I just wouldn't take the chance.

I have not used any 500GB drive at all, but I also would want to know the model no. of the WD 500GB SATA drive that CompUSA is advertising, and then I would search for the specifications and any User Reviews that might be available. My internal drive on my 8300HD is a WD drive, and I have always thought that drives made by the same manufacturer might communicate better with each other than with a different brand, but my original Seagate external drive had no problem communicating with the Maxtor internal drive in the 8300SD DVR, so maybe it makes no difference at all. If I were going to try a WD 500GB drive, I would look for the one that has been manufactured specifically for use with streaming media. I think that is WD's CE series, based on information posted elsewhere in this thread. If I am incorrect, someone will correct me. :)

I love my Apricorn enclosures and have four of them in service. Since you have bought one of the newer models, the correct cable will be included. I had to buy the cables for my first two, but they were included with the most recent two that I bought. Where did you find an Apricorn enclosure? Most of the online retailers have been out of stock recently.

Best of luck to you. Let us know what you decide and how it works out for you.

Scarlett
Scarlett,

Thanks for your informative post. The Seagate ST3300831AS 300GB drive you have... is it 'certified' for streaming video, or just a 'plain ole' computer data drive? I have read a few post about the WD 'CE' models over the standard SE models, but are there confirmed reports that SE drives will not work with the 8300HD DVR? I will do another search to see if I can turn-up some conclusive 'evidence'.

Interestingly enough, my 8300 diagnostic screens reports that the 160GB internal drive drive is indeed a WD SE drive. Perhaps it makes no difference that a CE drive is used when it's hung off the internal IDE bus inside the 8300HD?

Anyway, I may pop for the CompUSA 500GB WD drive tomorrow, and take my chances with the Apricorn enclosure. If it does not work as an external eSATA drive with my 8300, I can always use it with/in one of my other computers. :D

Thanks again,

Edit: BTW, I found the Apricorn enclosure at Newegg. They were out of stock, but I was notified when they became available last week.

cuzzin

11-19-06, 11:58 PM

Okay, 2 questions then (well, maybe more :) ):

1. What happens when a scheduled recording starts, the same thing?

2. What happens when you disconnect the SATA drive? Does recording on the internal drive return to normal? If it does, then something is probably wrong with the combination you are using, either the enclosure, the drive, or both and you might consider trying a different combination. Or you could try the same combination with a different 8300 if you can convince TWC to let you.

Hopefully, someone more familiar with SATA will have some added thoughts.
1. Yeah, if I schedule a recording, I pretty much end up with the same results.

2. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this one. Do you mean unplugging the drive from the 8300HD completely by removing the cable from the eSATA port? I have never tried, but if I did, wouldn't my recording space shoot back up to the maximum? If this is an enclosure problem, if I bought another one, I wouldn't lost any of my recordings on the internal drive from switching enclosures right? And about switching 8300HDs, I really would rather not lose any of my recordings, so I'm going to try anything I can before resorting to something like that. Appreciate your help.

cuzzin

11-20-06, 12:03 AM

cuzzin,

Same problem I am having.

1. What is the model number of your drive?
2. Does your external enclosure have both USB and SATA?

So far I have tried both a 400GB Seagate 7200.10 and 300GB Maxtor 6L300S0 with the same results. My case is an AZIO dual USB/SATA case, only thing I can think to try is a SATA only case at this point.

I am on SARA 1.88.17.a100.

xnappo

1. I am running SARA version 1.88.22.1

2. Yeah my Coolmax enclosure is both a USB and SATA drive

The SATA only enclosure idea has potential. That just could be the problem for all I know. I might try a different enclosue as soon as I have confirmation switching enclosures won't cause me to lose my recordings on my internal drive.

Scarlett

11-20-06, 12:09 AM

Scarlett,

Thanks for your informative post. The Seagate ST3300831AS 300GB drive you have... is it 'certified' for streaming video, or just a 'plain ole' computer data drive? I have read a few post about the WD 'CE' models over the standard SE models, but are there confirmed reports that SE drives will not work with the 8300HD DVR? I will do another search to see if I can turn-up some conclusive 'evidence'.As far as I know, it's just a "plain ole" computer data drive. When I bought it, I didn't know to look for anything other than a SATA drive! It's not that the SE drives "won't" work--they just don't work as well as one that is optimized or "certified" for streaming video. My 300GB is not without glitches now that it is being used for HD programming. It worked flawlessly with SD programming, though.

Interestingly enough, my 8300 diagnostic screens reports that the 160GB internal drive drive is indeed a WD SE drive. Perhaps it makes no difference that a CE drive is used when it's hung off the internal IDE bus inside the 8300HD?I don't know whether it makes a difference. My guess would be that it doesn't. My internal drive is reported as a WD1600BB-56RDAO. I don't know if it is an SE, CE, or anything-E, but it does not get along well with either of my Seagate external drives at this point. I still want to see if filling the internal drive before connecting the external drive will have any impact on the quality of recordings. Without an external drive attached, playback of all recordings is 100% glitch-free--even with xnappo's "stress test." But 160GB is woefully inadequate for HD recording!

Anyway, I may pop for the CompUSA 500GB WD drive tomorrow, and take my chances with the Apricorn enclosure. If it does not work as an external eSATA drive with my 8300, I can always use it with/in one of my other computers. :DPrecisely what I intend to do with mine if I can't get them to work! I know that others have been successful with 500GB drives, but I don't know if it was with SARA or Passport. I think you will like the Apricorn enclosure--provided you can live with the bright orange light. It doesn't bother me, but my husband hates it!

I hope the 500GB WD will work perfectly for you. If it does, let me know before the sale is over, and I will go and get one, too!

Scarlett

Scarlett

11-20-06, 03:24 AM

Scarlett

11-20-06, 03:33 AM

1. I am running SARA version 1.88.22.1

2. Yeah my Coolmax enclosure is both a USB and SATA drive

The SATA only enclosure idea has potential. That just could be the problem for all I know. I might try a different enclosue as soon as I have confirmation switching enclosures won't cause me to lose my recordings on my internal drive.I am using a SATA-only Apricorn enclosure with my external drives, and I am having the same problems that xnappo is experiencing, i.e., macro-blocking, freezes, and truncated recordings. So the SATA-only enclosure idea may not be the solution--or maybe it's just my combination of drives and enclosure that is causing my problems. Someone has been successful with a Rosewill enclosure and some brand of 500GB hard drive, but the stand for the Rosewill does not hold it very securely according to User reviews. Also, I do not know if that combination is being used with SARA or Passport. Check back in the posts--it was fairly recently that I read it.

You absolutely will not lose your recordings by moving your drive to a different enclosure!

Scarlett

Character_Zero

11-20-06, 07:41 AM

Is anyone familiar with Perpendicular Recording Technology? I came across this Seagate SATA 320GB hard drive at Newegg, and I wonder if it might be more suitable for an external drive:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140&CMP=KNC-GoogleAdwords&ATT=Top+Seller+22148140

There is one User review on the Newegg site that makes an attempt to describe this technology. If anyone can add to the explanation, or make an assessment of this drive's suitability for our purposes, please add your comments.

Many thanks!

Scarlett

Thats the drive I use. It works ok but I do get the occasional audio/video dropout (but its not every channel) and I have had a few truncated recordings. I use a Kingwin enclosure. Not sure if its the drive or enclosure though. But I think Perpendicular Recording puts the bits closer together. Thats all I know, maybe someone else can explain, sorry.

pepar

11-20-06, 08:45 AM

Is anyone familiar with Perpendicular Recording Technology? I came across this Seagate SATA 320GB hard drive at Newegg, and I wonder if it might be more suitable for an external drive:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140&CMP=KNC-GoogleAdwords&ATT=Top+Seller+22148140

There is one User review on the Newegg site that makes an attempt to describe this technology. If anyone can add to the explanation, or make an assessment of this drive's suitability for our purposes, please add your comments.

Many thanks!

Scarlett
Perpendicular Recording is a way to increase areal density (of data) on the drive's magnetic platters and has no bearing on the downstream electronics or suitability for DVR applications. Also, more data per unit area means that, at any given totational speed, data is read/wrote faster. That is a big plus for computer applications, but as 7200RM with "standard" recording technology is more than adequate for our 8300HD DVRs, it provides no benefit for us.

pepar

11-20-06, 08:58 AM

DoubleDAZ

11-20-06, 08:58 AM

2. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this one. Do you mean unplugging the drive from the 8300HD completely by removing the cable from the eSATA port? I have never tried, but if I did, wouldn't my recording space shoot back up to the maximum? If this is an enclosure problem, if I bought another one, I wouldn't lost any of my recordings on the internal drive from switching enclosures right? And about switching 8300HDs, I really would rather not lose any of my recordings, so I'm going to try anything I can before resorting to something like that. Appreciate your help.Yes, I mean completely remove the SATA cable from the 8300 to see if operation returns to normal. If it does, this would tend to rule out the 8300 being the problem unless to connector itself is bad (which I doubt) or it's determined that 1.88.x.x is causing these problems for those who have them. If you don't think it's the 8300 though, then there is no real reason to try this. However, you should not lose any recordings if you did. It sounds like your internal drive might be pretty full and all new recordings are goign to the SATA drive. I don't know how full that drive is and if your problems started after it too got pretty full or right away.

xnappo

11-20-06, 09:45 AM

Is anyone familiar with Perpendicular Recording Technology?

I am so glad you asked. You are in for a treat:
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/research/recording_head/pr/PerpendicularAnimation.html

I think the Seagate 400GB drive you got from Fry's *is* perpendicular - at least if it is a 7200.10 it is. That is the first drive I tried and had problems with.

xnappo

belgiangenius

11-20-06, 10:01 AM

Dave,

See what you went and started? Now we're going to have Rogers Sucks, Cox Sucks, TWC Sucks, The 8300 Sucks, Everything Sucks, etc., all over the place. Guess I'll have to put my blinders on and learn to ignore ignorant signatures as well as posts. You sure do make things hard on me dealing with my pet peeves here. :) :D :)

Dude...you have to live in Toronto, Canada, and deal with Rogers to know how hard that company sucks. They've got us running firmware that is 18 months old. Need I say more?

pepar

11-20-06, 10:28 AM

Dude...you have to live in Toronto, Canada, and deal with Rogers to know how hard that company sucks. They've got us running firmware that is 18 months old. Need I say more?
Dude, the decision to roll out a newer version of software has little to do with it being available. And I doubt that being north or south of 49 degrees has anything to do with it.

belgiangenius

11-20-06, 11:03 AM

Dude, the decision to roll out a newer version of software has little to do with it being available. And I doubt that being north or south of 49 degrees has anything to do with it.

? Are you suggesting that SA is releasing new versions of firmware that have no purpose? Why wouldn't a provide make them all available?

archiguy

11-20-06, 11:08 AM

? Are you suggesting that SA is releasing new versions of firmware that have no purpose? Why wouldn't a provide make them all available?

What he means is that the local cable operator is under no obligation to send a new software revision down to your STB, whether it's been written by the Scientific Atlanta or the Aptiv people. And they all modify the base software packages to some extent to reflect the needs of their own local outlet, anyway.

redjr

11-20-06, 11:49 AM

I received my Apricorn enclosure this morning and promptly put in a test drive to see if my 8300 would recognize it. I did the power up /boot sequence of the STB, and I got a message that the 'external device was not recognized'. I simply powered down the Apricorn and powered it back up and immediately the 8300 displayed a message to format the drive. I pressed the 'A' key and the format screen went away. I did not see any disk activity on the LED. So...

I went into the diagnostic screens and sure enough the drive was listed - showing 149GB available(160GB drive). If it did format the drive it did so in about 2 seconds! Would it recognize the drive if it were unformatted? When recording to the external drive you will see disk activity - correct? I'm recording an HD show at the moment, but do not see any activity on the LED. Is it recording to the external drive?

I have not purchased the 500GB WD yet, as I wanted to give this 160GB Seagate a try in the Apricorn case first. Comments?

davehancock

11-20-06, 01:40 PM

? Are you suggesting that SA is releasing new versions of firmware that have no purpose? Why wouldn't a provide make them all available?Actually, the newer version (1.88.xx.xx) has a lot of new functionality. The problem is (as someone else has pointed out) that: first there may well be some localization of the software; PLUS the cable company needs to make sure that the new (and localized) software works properly in their system (each and every cable system is a little different) to avoid massive problems when they release it to everyone. It could well be that they did run into problems with their testing and need to have SA resolve the issue before widespread release. As I recall, some areas did have major problems when 1.88 was released (though it seemed to go OK here).

cuzzin

11-20-06, 03:28 PM

I am using a SATA-only Apricorn enclosure with my external drives, and I am having the same problems that xnappo is experiencing, i.e., macro-blocking, freezes, and truncated recordings. So the SATA-only enclosure idea may not be the solution--or maybe it's just my combination of drives and enclosure that is causing my problems. Someone has been successful with a Rosewill enclosure and some brand of 500GB hard drive, but the stand for the Rosewill does not hold it very securely according to User reviews. Also, I do not know if that combination is being used with SARA or Passport. Check back in the posts--it was fairly recently that I read it.

You absolutely will not lose your recordings by moving your drive to a different enclosure!

Scarlett
All right so maybe the enclosure isn't the problem. Does anyone here actually have flawless recordings and playback since the addition of the external drive? I don't want to have to keep spending hundreds of dollars trying out different drives/enclosures until I find one that works flawlessly...if one even exists. I read in some of your other posts that certain types of SATA drives work better with streaming video; what kind of SATA drives would I be looking for exactly? All I know about mine is it's a Seagate 500GB Searial ATA internal drive(7200 RPM, 10 MB Cache). I'm not sure as to whether or not this is the type of drive I should have bought. I suppose I would go ahead and buy another drive, but only after making absolutely sure that the drive is in fact the problem, that the new drive I buy will work properly, and after I have transferred all my recordings on my current drive to another source. Changing drives will be my last resort so I hope I can find an answer that doesn't involve doing this.

xnappo

11-20-06, 04:10 PM

redjr

11-20-06, 04:40 PM

A couple of follow-ons to cuzzin's questions:

1. Those of you with working SARA drives, did you format under 1.88.xx or 1.87.xx?
2. What is the build date and version of your SARA-running 8300 and does it work with SATA or not.

Note 'working' means it can record two streams and play one back with a max of 2 glitches per hour.

Thanks,
xnappo

AZIO case, 400GB Seagate 7200.10, 8300 build date 9/2006 - FAIL
AZIO case, 300GB Maxtor 6L300S0, 8300 build date 9/2006 - FAIL
I guess I'm glad my definition of 'working' isn't quite as stringent. The SARA OS tools are primitive for informing the user as to what's going on with the external drive at best, and almost non-existent at worst. I'll be glad if it just records 1 stream at a time without too many glitches! :D But then, I'm only primarily interested in HD content anyway. In the past I've had trouble recording HD content on the internal drive alone!

So far, my test 160GB Seagate drive seems to be working fine.

Bellavance

11-20-06, 04:41 PM

Has anyone tried this ready made 160GB External Drive?

Link to External Drive. (http://www.videotron.com/services/en/television/accessoire-disque-dur-ext.jsp)

Has anyone tried putting a bigger hard drive in one of these?

Thanks.

Pierre

xnappo

11-20-06, 04:57 PM

I guess I'm glad my definition of 'working' isn't quite as stringent. The SARA OS tools are primitive for informing the user as to what's going on with the external drive at best, and almost non-existent at worst. I'll be glad if it just records 1 stream at a time without too many glitches! :D But then, I'm only primarily interested in HD content anyway. In the past I've had trouble recording HD content on the internal drive alone!

So far, my test 160GB Seagate drive seems to be working fine.

What is your 8300's build date and version(hardware version)?? I will update my post with my box version later.

I guess I should say that when I record two streams and watch one, I get glitches every 30 seconds or so - and it usually locks up after 10 minutes or so.

Using the internal drive, I hardly ever see glitches, and if I do they are very minor.

xnappo

davehancock

11-20-06, 06:05 PM

A couple of follow-ons to cuzzin's questions:

1. Those of you with working SARA drives, did you format under 1.88.xx or 1.87.xx?
2. What is the build date and version of your SARA-running 8300 and does it work with SATA or not.

Note 'working' means it can record two streams and play one back with a max of 2 glitches per hour.

I have a SARA drive, that I formated under 1.85.14.1 (I've had it since April 05). We are now at 1.88.17.a100. I noticed no difference in glitch rate with changes in SW.

I had slightly more problems with glitches with the internal drive than I do with the external drive. As I recall, the internal drive is 5400RPM (I have a pre-firewire 8300).

To be honest, I probably have about 4 glitches per hour WHEN I am recording 2 HD programs and watching a previously recorded HD program.

My external drive is a Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM w/16Mb buffer. The enclosure makes no difference (other than cooling) as the connection is direct between the drive and the 8300 (via cable from CRUZ).

Scarlett

11-20-06, 08:19 PM

All right so maybe the enclosure isn't the problem. Does anyone here actually have flawless recordings and playback since the addition of the external drive? I don't want to have to keep spending hundreds of dollars trying out different drives/enclosures until I find one that works flawlessly...if one even exists. I read in some of your other posts that certain types of SATA drives work better with streaming video; what kind of SATA drives would I be looking for exactly? All I know about mine is it's a Seagate 500GB Searial ATA internal drive(7200 RPM, 10 MB Cache). I'm not sure as to whether or not this is the type of drive I should have bought. I suppose I would go ahead and buy another drive, but only after making absolutely sure that the drive is in fact the problem, that the new drive I buy will work properly, and after I have transferred all my recordings on my current drive to another source. Changing drives will be my last resort so I hope I can find an answer that doesn't involve doing this.Okay, I told you I would report the performance of my external hard drive after filling the internal hard drive, and I have some interesting observations to make.

As I posted earlier, after deleting every program except one (the CMA Awards), I removed the external hard drive from the 8300 altogether. The index of recordings on the internal drive continued to show the CMA awards, but if I tried to access it, of course it wasn't there, because it had been recorded on the external drive. I continued to record 6 to 8 hours of HD programming per night. Every program, without fail, was 100% perfect in every respect, i.e., no macro-blocking, no freezes, no truncated recordings, perfect audio, even using xnappo's "stress test."

When the internal drive was showing 92% full, I reconnected the original 300GB SATA drive. I won't list the steps I went through to do it, unless someone needs to know. You can PM me, and I will email the procedure. After the hard reboot, I got no message telling me that the external drive connected would work with the internal drive, but when I checked the recorded space used (under "List" and pressing the "B" button), it had dropped from 92% to 36%. This is not as much free space as you would expect to get after adding a 300GB hard drive. However, and this is my first interesting observation, when I went to the index and requested the CMA Awards show, the internal drive still found it and started playing it! This is a 3 hr. and 39 min. HD recording from ABC, which takes up a lot of space, but, and this is my second interesting observation, it has played back through the first 30 minutes of the show with no glitches! What makes this so interesting is the fact that when it was first recorded, there was significant macro-blocking from the beginning of the recording. Oops, should have kept my mouth shut--I just had a brief audio hiccup, but it was barely noticeable--I'm just looking hard for anything wrong.

Tonight, I will be recording 6 hours of HD programming, and I will watch one previously recorded show between 9:00 and 10:00 p.m. I will let you know how the quality of these recordings compares with the recordings made to the external drive before the internal drive had anything on it except the index. If they are glitch-free, then I will be convinced that first filling the internal drive before connecting the external drive is the solution.

As far as your 500GB Seagate is concerned, I don't think it has a 10MB cache. It should be either 8MB or 16MB. It may be a 7200.10 Seagate, and if so, as xnappo pointed out earlier, this is probably a perpendicular recording drive. Since I had so much trouble with my 400GB Seagate (also perpendicular recording), I am convinced that these drives should not be used as external drives on the 8300. As pepar said earlier, this is good technology to be used on a computer, and that's what I intend to do with the two that I bought. If I decide to buy a new hard drive, I am going to buy the DB-35 Seagate that is designed for use with streaming media. Maybe I will ask Santa to bring me a 500GB. :) However, we still don't know whether we will have an external drive option after TWC rolls out Navigator, so I might wait until after that happens to attempt a different hard drive, particularly if I continue to get good quality recordings with my current setup, which includes an Apricorn SATA-only enclosure and the ST3300631AS Seagate 300GB, 7200 RPM, 16MB cache, 1.5GB/sec data rate.

Where were you planning to transfer all the programs you have now? Are they on your internal hard drive or the external? The only options for transferring are to VHS or DVD--you can't transfer them to another hard drive, but I assume that you already know that. :)

Again, will let everyone know tomorrow the results of the "stress test." I can tell you right now that I am 15 minutes into recording two HD programs while watching the previously recorded CMA Awards, and playback continues to be perfect. Don't know what the shows being recorded will look like, though. Stay tuned!

Scarlett

DoubleDAZ

11-20-06, 09:01 PM

belgiangenius,

I won't use the "Dude" salutation :) , but FWIW, Cox-Phoenix is still officially running 1.87.x.x too, so it's not just a Rogers thing (and I already knew why the negative comment in your signature). The problem is that newer versions still have bugs that adversely affect some users (in our case 30,000 SA8000HD users) even though the newer versions have plenty of bug fixes and enhancements that other users want. We were fortunate to find someone within Cox-Phoenix who is willing to manage 3 "live" versions of the software and allow some users to get 1.88.19.1 and others to test 1.88.22.1. I should also add that there are quite a few folks pretty happy with 1.87.x.x (including one of my friends) because they simply don't know what they are missing or don't have a need for various features. I am still unsure of why this change of heart at Cox, but I never look a gift horse in the mouth. :)

Even though everyone knows I have personal problems with Tivo as a company, I believe one of the biggest things they have going for them is that every Tivo user (at least with a given box) has the same software, none are at the mercy of backward-thinking cableco managers. Though I understand some of the reasons for multiple versions of SARA (and probably Passport), I can't help but think things would be so much better with a single version. Even with 1.88.x.x, we are still saddled with several versions depending on locale and cableco. There are some things in the works that should resolve that problem, but they are still probably 6-9 months or more away.

pepar

11-20-06, 09:14 PM

I know I'm talking about OPM (Other Peoples' Money) here, but I'd like to see some SARAistas spring for drives from Maxtor's Quickview line of drives. Or another drive maker's "streaming video" drives. If the glitch problems disappear, then we'd - you'd - know that error correction was the culprit.

DoubleDAZ

11-20-06, 09:29 PM

xnappo

11-20-06, 09:34 PM

You know, when I went through the thread and summarized drives/enclosures, I was/am under the impression those were all working combos, at least with SARA. Are we now saying some or all of those no longer work correctly?

Absolutely. There are variables at play we don't understand/aren't documenting. There are a LOT of different versions of the 8300 hardware, plus the software rev... To truly understand what works and what doesn't we would need a database like this:
http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/db.asp

Not that I expect that to happen, but enclosure+drive isn't enough to base working on. Plus I really think 'working' needs a more definitive definition.

I do appreciate the work you did to put together the list though!

xnappo

pepar

11-20-06, 10:23 PM

DoubleDAZ

11-20-06, 10:36 PM

The ones in the summary post linked to from the first post.

cuzzin

11-20-06, 10:41 PM

Okay, I told you I would report the performance of my external hard drive after filling the internal hard drive, and I have some interesting observations to make.

As I posted earlier, after deleting every program except one (the CMA Awards), I removed the external hard drive from the 8300 altogether. The index of recordings on the internal drive continued to show the CMA awards, but if I tried to access it, of course it wasn't there, because it had been recorded on the external drive. I continued to record 6 to 8 hours of HD programming per night. Every program, without fail, was 100% perfect in every respect, i.e., no macro-blocking, no freezes, no truncated recordings, perfect audio, even using xnappo's "stress test."

When the internal drive was showing 92% full, I reconnected the original 300GB SATA drive. I won't list the steps I went through to do it, unless someone needs to know. You can PM me, and I will email the procedure. After the hard reboot, I got no message telling me that the external drive connected would work with the internal drive, but when I checked the recorded space used (under "List" and pressing the "B" button), it had dropped from 92% to 36%. This is not as much free space as you would expect to get after adding a 300GB hard drive. However, and this is my first interesting observation, when I went to the index and requested the CMA Awards show, the internal drive still found it and started playing it! This is a 3 hr. and 39 min. HD recording from ABC, which takes up a lot of space, but, and this is my second interesting observation, it has played back through the first 30 minutes of the show with no glitches! What makes this so interesting is the fact that when it was first recorded, there was significant macro-blocking from the beginning of the recording. Oops, should have kept my mouth shut--I just had a brief audio hiccup, but it was barely noticeable--I'm just looking hard for anything wrong.

Tonight, I will be recording 6 hours of HD programming, and I will watch one previously recorded show between 9:00 and 10:00 p.m. I will let you know how the quality of these recordings compares with the recordings made to the external drive before the internal drive had anything on it except the index. If they are glitch-free, then I will be convinced that first filling the internal drive before connecting the external drive is the solution.

As far as your 500GB Seagate is concerned, I don't think it has a 10MB cache. It should be either 8MB or 16MB. It may be a 7200.10 Seagate, and if so, as xnappo pointed out earlier, this is probably a perpendicular recording drive. Since I had so much trouble with my 400GB Seagate (also perpendicular recording), I am convinced that these drives should not be used as external drives on the 8300. As pepar said earlier, this is good technology to be used on a computer, and that's what I intend to do with the two that I bought. If I decide to buy a new hard drive, I am going to buy the DB-35 Seagate that is designed for use with streaming media. Maybe I will ask Santa to bring me a 500GB. :) However, we still don't know whether we will have an external drive option after TWC rolls out Navigator, so I might wait until after that happens to attempt a different hard drive, particularly if I continue to get good quality recordings with my current setup, which includes an Apricorn SATA-only enclosure and the ST3300631AS Seagate 300GB, 7200 RPM, 16MB cache, 1.5GB/sec data rate.

Where were you planning to transfer all the programs you have now? Are they on your internal hard drive or the external? The only options for transferring are to VHS or DVD--you can't transfer them to another hard drive, but I assume that you already know that. :)

Again, will let everyone know tomorrow the results of the "stress test." I can tell you right now that I am 15 minutes into recording two HD programs while watching the previously recorded CMA Awards, and playback continues to be perfect. Don't know what the shows being recorded will look like, though. Stay tuned!

Scarlett
You know, I think you're right, my drive is a 16 MB cache. After tonight, I realized my problem is not as severe as it could be. I was recording "Heroes" tonight and I think I may have counted a max of four or five glitches in the hour-long episode. Not bad, but I did tinker around with my cables in hopes of improving the picture. I have no idea if what I did even has relevance to how the picture records, but the picture while recording didn't seem as bad as usual. I have always run the cable from the wall through a splitter then into the 8300HD, but tonight I tried connecting the cable directly. Whether the better picture had anything to do with this or if tonight was just a good night for me, I don't know. I'll try more recording like this to see if it wasn't a fluke. For the first time, I unplugged the external drive to see how much space the internal drive had; it was at about 91%. I was going to try recording some FOX HD, but my signal tonight was HORRIBLE. I called the TW support number, and apparently they were having "service interruptions;" completely ruined "Prison Break" for me. There's no doubt that the number of glitches has been on the rise since the addition of the SATA drive, however the glitches that occur do not make the program altogether unwatchable; it just becomes an annoyance, especially when you're actively LOOKING for these glitches. Tonight, I found that the glitches were few and far between and didn't distract me too much from watching the cheerleader get saved. I hope tonight was not just a lucky night to be recording. If I can keep the recordings looking like they did tonight, with the glitches not happening every two minutes, I might consider staying with this SATA drive, at least for now. I'll see how it goes tomorrow when I record House. If this was all a fluke and I do end up buying another drive, then yes, since I obviously can't transfer from one drive to another, I will probably have to sacrifice loss of picture resolution and burn my shows to DVD. That is the last thing I want to do, however.

pepar

11-20-06, 10:46 PM

The ones in the summary post linked to from the first post.
Roger that, Dave. I don't know that "we" are saying anything, but what I'm saying is that I do not recall seeing ANY problem posts EVER from members with Maxtor Quickview drives, Expander or bare in an enclosure. And vegggas swears by the Expander saying that he's installed beaucoup with nary a hiccup. (Where is vegggas anyway?) In spite of that track record, I see people looking for the cheapest, largest drive they can find. And then beating their heads when they get unacceptable performance.

DoubleDAZ

11-20-06, 10:56 PM

Thanks, pepar. I'll leave the summary alone for now. I think you may be right about some of what's going on with regard to larger drives. I also think there might be something to the error-correction idea someone mentioned.

AFAIK, vegggas is dealing with some personal issues and will be back, though I thought he'd be back by now. I check the Las Vegas thread every once in awhile to see if he's posted yet, no joy.

DoubleDAZ

11-20-06, 11:00 PM

xnappo

11-20-06, 11:13 PM

Roger that, Dave. I don't know that "we" are saying anything, but what I'm saying is that I do not recall seeing ANY problem posts EVER from members with Maxtor Quickview drives, Expander or bare in an enclosure. And vegggas swears by the Expander saying that he's installed beaucoup with nary a hiccup. (Where is vegggas anyway?) In spite of that track record, I see people looking for the cheapest, largest drive they can find. And then beating their heads when they get unacceptable performance.
Pepar,

I could have totally misinterpretted earlier posts, but isn't the Maxtor 6L300S0 I am using(poorly) the 'bare in an enclosure' case? I thought I read that was what was in the Expander case?

xnappo

pepar

11-20-06, 11:29 PM

You know, I think you're right, my drive is a 16 MB cache. After tonight, I realized my problem is not as severe as it could be. I was recording "Heroes" tonight and I think I may have counted a max of four or five glitches in the hour-long episode. Not bad, but I did tinker around with my cables in hopes of improving the picture. I have no idea if what I did even has relevance to how the picture records, but the picture while recording didn't seem as bad as usual. I have always run the cable from the wall through a splitter then into the 8300HD, but tonight I tried connecting the cable directly. Whether the better picture had anything to do with this or if tonight was just a good night for me, I don't know.
Was your installation, including splitter, performed by your cable provider? The reason that I ask is that in the past I had some issues with "losing" certain ranges of channels and the fix was for a tech to come here and redo all of the F connections, starting ON THE POLE. I have RG6 homeruns from my "headend" to all wall outlets, but had installed splitters over the years. The tech removed all of the splitters on the three lines going to my 8300s and cable modem, and isolated them from the analog lines at my headend. Additionally, he used a tap - not a splitter - to do it.

If you have "good nights" and by corollary "bad nights," I'd call for a service visit.

pepar

11-20-06, 11:41 PM

Pepar,

I could have totally misinterpretted earlier posts, but isn't the Maxtor 6L300S0 I am using(poorly) the 'bare in an enclosure' case? I thought I read that was what was in the Expander case?

xnappo
My apologies, xnappo. Yes, that is from their Quickview family and you are the first - congratulations! :D - poster I've seen with problems with this family of drives. I don't think that is what's in the Expander case though as I've seen posted recently that there's an IDE (!) drive in there. If you've got good signal levels - read my previous post - then I suggest you get your provider to swap out your 8300HD.

edit: Oops, are you using the 8000HD as noted under your screen name?

cuzzin

11-20-06, 11:49 PM

Was your installation, including splitter, performed by your cable provider? The reason that I ask is that in the past I had some issues with "losing" certain ranges of channels and the fix was for a tech to come here and redo all of the F connections, starting ON THE POLE. I have RG6 homeruns from my "headend" to all wall outlets, but had installed splitters over the years. The tech removed all of the splitters on the three lines going to my 8300s and cable modem, and isolated them from the analog lines at my headend. Additionally, he used a tap - not a splitter - to do it.

If you have "good nights" and by corollary "bad nights," I'd call for a service visit.
No the cable guys pretty much came and hooked up the 8300HD to my plasma and that's about it. I connected the splitter myself because I needed an extra cable for RoadRunner. So you think by me having some nights good and some bad that I might have a signal problem?

cuzzin

11-20-06, 11:58 PM

cuzzin,

Those of us who have been doing this stuff for awhile tend to forget some of the basics assuming those have been covered. In that vein, just what are your signal levels? Digital is very susceptable to low signal levels as many folks have found out. The first post in the Tips&Tricks thread shows how to find the levels (for SARA anyway) and what the range should be.
Are you sure its in the first post? I kind of just skimmed through it but didn't see anything that really popped out at me. Is it in the Diagnostics menu? Guess I'll try to read into it a little harder.

vegggas

11-21-06, 01:36 AM

AFAIK, vegggas is dealing with some personal issues and will be back, though I thought he'd be back by now. I check the Las Vegas thread every once in awhile to see if he's posted yet, no joy.
Coming back very soon ;) Things should be better after the holiday :eek:
Only 10,000 more posts to catch up on first though...

For the record, I have had many great successes with the Quickview Expander (300GB) complete Kit. It comes with an eSATA to eSATA cable. Only problems ever encountered were due to poor cable connections (physical stress and torque), and the minor "glitch" when the drives were almost full and recording 2HD while playing back a 3rd HD during the use of the trick play features (ff/rew).

vegggas

mtchang

11-21-06, 03:19 AM

xnappo

11-21-06, 09:26 AM

My apologies, xnappo. Yes, that is from their Quickview family and you are the first - congratulations! :D - poster I've seen with problems with this family of drives. I don't think that is what's in the Expander case though as I've seen posted recently that there's an IDE (!) drive in there. If you've got good signal levels - read my previous post - then I suggest you get your provider to swap out your 8300HD.

edit: Oops, are you using the 8000HD as noted under your screen name?

I have an 8000HD that I am using as my primary box until I get the 8300HD and SATA working. Non-working recordings do not have a high WAF.

Signal levels are great, recordings without the external drive work fine. The box is very new (manf. 9/2006) but if trying an external case with a direct connection rather than my USB/eSATA case doesn't work, I guess I will do a box swap.

That is why I would really appreciate people with working setups reporting the build date and box version (sticker on the bottom).

Regards,
xnappo

P.S. Not the first:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7414019&&#post7414019
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6430106&&#post6430106

Riverside_Guy

11-21-06, 10:52 AM

Coming back very soon ;) Things should be better after the holiday :eek:
Only 10,000 more posts to catch up on first though...

For the record, I have had many great successes with the Quickview Expander (300GB) complete Kit. It comes with an eSATA to eSATA cable. Only problems ever encountered were due to poor cable connections (physical stress and torque), and the minor "glitch" when the drives were almost full and recording 2HD while playing back a 3rd HD during the use of the trick play features (ff/rew).

vegggas

Ah, good to hear you'll be back!

I recall a person who had some issues with a Quckview drive and had taken the drive out of the box... turned out it was a ATA/IDE drive! Yes, it is absolutely no big deal to use an IDE drive via a SATA "connection."

My guess is "other" HD solutions have much larger installed bases than this rather expensive solution, so that may be why we heard of issues with other equipment.

Still, ALL of this very much feeds into something I've been maintaining. No matter what the software platform, "support" for external storage shows every indication of early alpha software. From a real software developers perspective, none of this should be on the market until it has a much better reliability factor.

It sure seems like it was more of a business decision to leave this shaky code in shipping products; to me this is god awful because it essentially lowers the bar into the dregs of the bottom of the barrel. Why are we so accepting of crap software?

And now I'll shut up... I just want all of you to realize that I hold software purveyors to a real standard, not just whatever crap they can foist on us.

DoubleDAZ

11-21-06, 10:53 AM

Are you sure its in the first post? I kind of just skimmed through it but didn't see anything that really popped out at me. Is it in the Diagnostics menu? Guess I'll try to read into it a little harder.Yes, it's at the end because it's rather lengthy. Levels can be found on page 5, as well as some other pages. Even though the standard levels are listed here, the 8300 will highlight levels outside the -10 to +10 range. Also, levels can fluctuate, so it's best to check them often before determining they are good or bad. It's easy enough to check the levels when you experience glitches.

Diagnostic Display Data. Here's some general info regarding the diagnostic pages and the data displayed:

ANSI SCTE 40 2004 "Digital Cable Network Interface Standard" establishes "acceptable" levels. Free download from: http://www.scte.org/content/index.cfm?pID=59

Digital QAM carrier, STB Input Level: -12 to +15 dBmV for 256QAM and -15 to +15 dBmV for 64QAM.
Minimum S/N: 33 dB for 256QAM, 27 dB for 64 QAM and 43 dB for Analog. [Also known as C/(N+I).]

FDC QPSK carrier, STB Input Level: -15 to +15 dBmV
Minimum S/N: 20 dB

RDC QPSK reverse carrier, STB Output Level: +25 dBmV to +53 dBmV. (+85 to +113 dBuV is specified in referenced ANSI SCTE 55-2 2002.) Since the return loss back to the neighborhood node will vary depending on where you are in the power divider/amplifier chain, the RDC value will be automatically adjusted for more or less equal strength as received at the neighborhood node. If the RDC is at MAX, it may have run out of oomph....

=======================================
CURRENT FDC (Forward Data Channel) refers to I-N channel used to download software and program guide info to the DVR.
Level: Should be -15 to +15 dBmV
S/N: Should be 20 dB or more

CURRENT RDC (Reverse Data Channel) refers to I-N channel used to send the user's PPV/On-Demand and other commands back to the neighborhood cable node.
Power: Varies depending on where you are in the cable power amplifier/divider chain
Delay: Signal Propagation Delay from DVR to neighborhood node (Q: One-way or Round-Trip?)

CURRENT QAM refers to the currently tuned video channel:
Level: Should be -12 to +15 dBmV for QAM256
S/N: Should be 33 dB (or more) for QAM256 [This is more important than level]
Seconds: How long this channel has been tuned.
Corr Bytes: How many bytes were detected in error and corrected since first tuned
Uncor Blks: How many data blocks that failed parity check, but could not be corrected.
Errs Avg/Inst: Average and Instantaneous Bit (byte? block?) Error Rates.

DoubleDAZ

11-21-06, 11:12 AM

Still, ALL of this very much feeds into something I've been maintaining. No matter what the software platform, "support" for external storage shows every indication of early alpha software. From a real software developers perspective, none of this should be on the market until it has a much better reliability factor.

It sure seems like it was more of a business decision to leave this shaky code in shipping products; to me this is god awful because it essentially lowers the bar into the dregs of the bottom of the barrel. Why are we so accepting of crap software?And not to belabor the point, but isn't that precisely why it's not supported by any cableco? SA and others ship mulit-purpose units with any number of connectors. The connector is there, there is some software support there, so people are trying to use them, some with good success, others with limited success. Heck, even the Tivo S3 ships with a disabled SATA port (though it may now be working for all I know, I haven't kept up because SDV makes the S3 a non-starter for me). Would you rather they disable the port altogether, as I believe some cableco's have done? I'm sure that would upset the folks who have been successful, including a whole lot of vegggas' customers. :)

DoubleDAZ

11-21-06, 11:25 AM

Only 10,000 more posts to catch up on first though...Whew! That will take you until the New Year. :eek:

BTW. I hope I didn't speak out of turn with my comment.

vegggas

11-21-06, 11:33 AM

Point of clarification. I used the 300GB Maxtor Quickview expander complete KITs (drive, case, cable) not the bare drives supposedly called "quickview". Look for issues associated with the "kit" instead of the "drive", and they are very rare, and seem to only be found on inernal Seagate drives.
These were used on Maxtor HD equipped DVR's, running SARA with virtualy NO problems. Buy.com has run out of stock and they are now hard to find anywhere (although I thought I read that 200K units were made and available). I like to save money when I can, but for the ease of use and peace of mind -They Work!

vegggas

vegggas

11-21-06, 11:38 AM

Whew! That will take you until the New Year. :eek:

BTW. I hope I didn't speak out of turn with my comment.
It's ok - I've been lurking off an on for a few days.
I will be returning to a more normal life after the holiday.

vegggas

archiguy

11-21-06, 11:49 AM

I have gone ahead and pulled the trigger on the WD SE16 500GB drive I mentioned on a previous page as well as the Apricorn enclosure. Should be arriving in a few days and I will give a complete report as to how it all works out. I'm gambling that, since I'm a Passport kinda' guy, I won't have any serious issues and things will work out swimmingly. We shall see!

pepar

11-21-06, 11:52 AM

No the cable guys pretty much came and hooked up the 8300HD to my plasma and that's about it. I connected the splitter myself because I needed an extra cable for RoadRunner. So you think by me having some nights good and some bad that I might have a signal problem?
Are/Were you unable to run a dedicated line for the cable modem? Have you checked signal levels? Two-way splitters drop both legs by 3dB; if you've got signal to burn, then that shouldn't be a problem. As for good nights and bad nights, I can't think of any reason why that would happen other than possible signal fluctuations due to expansion and contraction of connectors, but that's just a guess. The "cable guy" that came for my last visit (and replaced F connectors) kept mentioning ingress, which I took to mean RF around the house getting into the cable.

mad6c

11-21-06, 07:18 PM

Scarlett

11-21-06, 07:26 PM

Just a heads up to everyone. Apricorn changed the EZ Bus DTS, from a SATA only enclosure to a SATA/USB enclosure. I ordered it thinking I was getting the SATA only version and the SATA/USB one showed.

I'll try it and let everyone know. I also got a Seagate 7200.10 320GB SATA drive.

MikeNewegg now has the Apricorn EZ Bus DTS SATA only enclosure in stock for $39.99 with S/H of $6.94.

APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT 3.5" SATA External Enclosure - Retail

AC Adapter: Yes
Dimensions: 8" x 4.80" x 1.80"
Features: Serial ATA interface Includes backup, encryption & synchronizing software Ultra-cool fan keeps enclosure at optimal temperatures, protecting your data Simple & easy to use Backup everything: Data, OS, Settings, Applications Supports multiple backups of multiple systems Hot Swappable - just plug and go Make an exact clone or compressed image
Internal Interface: SATA
Material: Aluminum
Package Contents: 3.5" External Enclosure 2 x SATA Cable Power Cord Power Adapter Vertical Stand Driver Disk User Manual

Model #: EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT
Item #: N82E16817362002
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$10.00 Instant Savings
3 Business Day Shipping $6.94
[2 Reviews]
Move To Wish List
Original Price: $49.99
Instant Savings: -$10.00
$39.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?DEPA=0&type=&Description=Apricorn&Submit=ENE&N=0&Ntk=all&Go.x=16&Go.y=31

redjr

11-21-06, 07:41 PM

DoubleDAZ

11-21-06, 08:06 PM

Scarlett

11-21-06, 08:30 PM

Redjr,
You may have missed my post of #3078 on 11/10/06.
I use WD 500GB SATA drive (WD5000KSRTL) and Apricorn EZ-Bus-DTS-EKED Enclosure with no problems. I got WD drive from CompUSA for $199 with $40 rebate.
MTC.I went back to your earlier post, and I now know that you are in Long Island, NY, and your cable provider is Cablevision. Are you on SARA or Passport, and what is the version?

It would be helpful if you would add that information to your signature each time you post.

Thanks!

DoubleDAZ

11-21-06, 08:56 PM

Too bad they don't have a multiple signature option here so we could choose the most appropriate one for the thread/forum we are in. I'm quite sure the Satellite Radio forum could care less about SARA, Passport, or my cableco. :) :D :)

But, Scarlett, your point is well taken and your choice of posts shows why. We shouldn't have to go backwards to find needed info like that. Do you think we'll ever get through to folks??????

cuzzin

11-21-06, 08:59 PM

cuzzin,

If you have signal level problems, the cableco should fix them. My cableco installed a splitter for a TV/modem when I first signed up for internet service. They also replaced an old splitter (for a VCR) when I added HD service on my HDTV. I then added another split which degraded the signal too much and got video glitches/audio breakups. Since then I've deleted the VCR and 2nd splitter, so no further problems. I'd hate to see you taking all your time trying to figure out the SATA problem, if you haven't first ruled out more basic stuff. Most folks recommend separate dedicated lines to both a modem and an HD DVR, but I have found that if the signal levels are okay, 1 spitter on each line usually does not cause problems.
All right, I went into the diagnostics just now to page 5 like you said. Here's how it was laid out for me:

Current FDC
Freq: 102.000 MHz
DAVIC: Connected
Status: Locked
Level: -4 dBmV
Seconds: 23048
Corr Bytes: 11
Uncor Blks: 0
Errs Avg/Inst: 0 / 0
Total Bytes: 4069267390
S/N: 29 dB

Current RDC
Freq: 20.000 MHz
Power: 43 dBmV
Delay: 660 uSec
Retrans: 0

Current QAM
Freq: 633.000 MHz
Tuning Mode: QAM-256
Status: Locked
Level: -6 dBmV
S/N: 36 dB
Seconds: 46
Corr Bytes: 0
Uncor Blks: 0
Errs Avg/Inst: 0 / 0
EQ Gain: Unavailable

Does this all seem pretty normal? I tried following along with your guide, and as far as I can tell, nothing seems off here.

DoubleDAZ

11-21-06, 09:04 PM

Yeah, looks good to me, guess that rules levels out. :)

pepar

11-21-06, 09:20 PM

Yeah, looks good to me, guess that rules levels out. :)
Except for that "good nights" and "bad nights" stuff. What could account for that?

Scarlett

11-21-06, 09:21 PM

Is it possible that the brand and type of the internal hard drive in the 8300 could be causing some of these problems?

My internal hard drive is a WD1600BB, and it is an EIDE 7200 RPM hard drive with a transfer rate of 100MB/sec. Relevant specs are:

Performance Specifications
Rotational Speed 7,200 RPM (nominal)
Buffer Size 2 MB
Average Latency 4.20 ms (nominal)
Contact Start/Stop Cycles 50,000 minimum

Seek Times
Read Seek Time 8.9 ms
Write Seek Time 10.9 ms (average)
Track-To-Track Seek Time 2.0 ms (average)
Full Stroke Seek 21.0 ms (average)

Transfer Rates
Buffer To Disk 748 Mbits/s (Max)

Buffer to Host (EIDE)
Mode 5 Ultra ATA 100.0 MB/s
Mode 4 Ultra ATA 66.6 MB/s
Mode 2 Ultra ATA 33.3 MB/s
Mode 4 PIO 16.6 MB/s
Mode 2 multi-word DMA 16.6 MB/s

Everyone has been saying that the transfer rate for the 8300 is 150MB/sec., and that is what my external SATA drive will do.

My upstairs 8300HD had a disk failure today, so I have now lost all recordings on both the internal and external drives. Got a new unit from TW this afternoon, but I haven't installed and authorized it yet. I told my husband to ask for a recent build, and he got one that was manufactured 11/1/2006, and it is a Rev. 2.2 (xnappo always wants to know that). It looks brand new, but I won't know which hard drive was used in it until I can get into the diagnostic screens.

Speaking of diagnostic screens, my current and operating 8300HD will not display a lot of the information I was getting prior to the upgrade to SARA 1.88.17a100, e.g., all information relating to the two hard drives. Tech Support told me it was because I had the external SATA drive connected and that the information would be available if I disconnected it. Of course, he was completely wrong! I checked for that information when I was using the 8300 by itself, and even after two hard reboots, there was no more information available than before. Can anyone with SARA 1.88.xx confirm that information for both hard drives is actually available in the diagnostic screens? I know for a fact that it was available prior to the upgrade, because I have notes listing that information for both the internal and external drives!

Since filling my internal drive to 92% capacity prior to reconnecting my external drive (the 300GB Seagate ST3300631AS), I have had 100% glitch-free performance--even under xnappo's "stress test" conditions. I don't know how long this will last, but so far, I couldn't ask for better picture quality. I strongly suspect that my earlier problems were caused by the 400GB Seagate with perpendicular recording. However, I never tried that drive after I filled the internal drive, so I can't be sure until I try it again under the same conditions. I can say that I had similar problems with my current 300GB Seagate SATA drive before there were any recordings on the internal drive, so I still suspect that filling the internal drive before connecting the external SATA drive does have a bearing on the quality of the recordings.

I am a huge proponent of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," but that 500GB WD at CompUSA is awfully tempting! :)

Scarlett

Scarlett

11-21-06, 09:42 PM

mtchang

11-21-06, 10:20 PM

I went back to your earlier post, and I now know that you are in Long Island, NY, and your cable provider is Cablevision. Are you on SARA or Passport, and what is the version?

It would be helpful if you would add that information to your signature each time you post.

Thanks!

I knew someone would ask me that question. But I am in Taiwan right now, won't be back until early December. I hope someone living in Long Island will answer your question. Anyway, I will check it ASA I get back. Thank you.

DoubleDAZ

11-21-06, 10:27 PM

Well, at least that's a darned good excuse. :)

LL3HD

11-21-06, 10:29 PM

I knew someone would ask me that question. But I am in Taiwan right now, won't be back until early December. I hope someone living in Long Island will answer your question. Anyway, I will check it ASA I get back. Thank you.
Cablevision on Long Island is SARA. Don’t know the version.

Scarlett

11-21-06, 10:44 PM

Too bad they don't have a multiple signature option here so we could choose the most appropriate one for the thread/forum we are in. I'm quite sure the Satellite Radio forum could care less about SARA, Passport, or my cableco. :) :D :)Has anyone in that forum asked what your sig means? :)But that's why I put my info under my Member name. It's less obvious, and I know to check both places before I ask!

But, Scarlett, your point is well taken and your choice of posts shows why. We shouldn't have to go backwards to find needed info like that. Do you think we'll ever get through to folks??????He's a new member, so he probably didn't know it's important--although he did include his location and provider in that earlier post, so maybe he had a clue. Ah, well, benefit of the doubt and all that. We probably will have to keep asking--especially if people don't read through the earlier posts. They really don't know what they are missing! :)

Scarlett

DKilleen

11-21-06, 10:57 PM

I'm a TW customer in Shreveport, LA. I had one CSR tell me that the SATA port on my SA 8300 HD DVR is turned on, and another tell me that it isn't so I decided to try for myself. I had a Buslink 400GB external drive that I wanted to try. It has ports for SATA, Firewire, and USB. It can be connected either of the 3 ways. I got my eSATA/SATA cable. Unplugged the DVR, plugged in the drive, made sure that power is on, and plugged in the DVR. It booted, no format screen, nothing to indicate that it found the external drive. So I looked at the DIAG screen.

I have Passport Echo v# 2.5.066

Under Feat. Auth. screen it says:
SATA: Yes (No check) Dunno what "No check" means.

Reset info screen says:
No valid reset recorded. Does this mean that it has never completed rebooted?

DVR Info screen says:
Storage Devices = 1
Capacity = 148.9GB

SATA screes says:
Authorized

It looks like SATA is turned on, but that my drive is not being found on boot. (I've booted 4-5 times). So I gave up and unplugged the drive from the SATA port. I immediately got a message that "The External Drive is not connected. Re-connect the drive and reboot". So I did that. Still nothing. It appears from that error screen that the DVR knows that the drive is there. But from the DVR Info screens it looks like the drive is NOT there. Perhaps the DVR doesn't like the Buslink drive?

I'd appreciate any ideas.

Thanks

David Killeen

redjr

11-21-06, 10:57 PM

hofs1

11-22-06, 12:14 AM

Cablevision on Long Island is SARA. Don’t know the version.

Well im in Cablevision in Northern NJ and we be running 1.88.23.1 since 7/12/06
maybe it helps maybe not but that info cant hurt :cool:

That was neat both my internal and external have exactly 90gb free on each drive odd huh

Scarlett

11-22-06, 12:15 AM

Scarlett,

Yes. SARA 1.88.19.1 (TWC - Upstate, NY) reports both drives on the diagnostic screens (page 33 to exact). If you were to disconnect the external drive I doubt very seriously that SARA could report that it is attached - unless it keeps track of this info in some type of memory buffer. :eek: This isn't the first time I haven't made myself clear. :) The Tech didn't mean that with the external drive disconnected that the diagnostic screen would give me information on the SATA drive--he meant that if I disconnected the external SATA drive, the diagnostic screen would then tell me about the internal drive! He was wrong. I am still getting the message that info on HDD 1 is "unavailable," and it's in bright pink! I read somewhere online that if information is reported as "unavailable," it means that a module is missing--or that feature is disabled. That's why I thought it might have something to do with the upgrade.

I recorded two HD channels earlier tonight and am currently playing back one of them as I write this. I have yet to notice a single 'blip' in either the video or audio. A perfect recording so far... Again, this has been with a test 160GB Seagate 7200 drive in an Apricorn SATA/USB enclosure. BTW, the Apricorn seems to keep the drive very cool. I have mine mounted vertically with at least 2-3" of space around it. I did hear a noticeable amount of head 'thrashing' during the recording, but as I mentioned, the playback has been smooth.All of my hard drives in Apricorn enclosures run cool, and I have never heard either the fan or the hard drive making any appreciable noise. Others have complained about noisy Seagate drives, and have said that the Apricorn fan makes too much noise, but that is not my experience with either.

Glad to hear that you are getting perfect recordings with your 160GB Seagate. It isn't one of the PRT drives, is it? Didn't you have a larger drive that you were having problems with? Or, are you just waiting before you buy a larger drive to see which one works best? I am really tempted by that 500GB WD at CompUSA!

Scarlett

pepar

11-22-06, 08:01 AM

ElwayLite

11-22-06, 08:48 AM

mtchang

11-22-06, 10:01 AM

pepar

11-22-06, 10:07 AM

I am getting the 8300HD installed on Saturday and have been reading many many posts in this thread. I have come up with this configuration for an external drive and wanted to get some input on it before I order:

All from Newegg

1 OKGEAR SATA II Cable $3.99

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $95.00

APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT 3.5" SATA External Enclosure - Retail $39.99

Does this look like a good setup for the 8300hd? Thanks in advance.
Location? Cable provider? SARA or Passport software? Software version?

If this is entirely Venusian to you, go here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=581843) and do some research on how to determine the last two items. We probably won't be able to help you at all if you don't already know the first two. :)

ElwayLite

11-22-06, 11:22 AM

I'm in Charleston, Sc.

Comcast cable

If I remember correctly it is NOT the passport version

unsure about software version until saturday

Riverside_Guy

11-22-06, 11:54 AM

And not to belabor the point, but isn't that precisely why it's not supported by any cableco? SA and others ship mulit-purpose units with any number of connectors. The connector is there, there is some software support there, so people are trying to use them, some with good success, others with limited success. Heck, even the Tivo S3 ships with a disabled SATA port (though it may now be working for all I know, I haven't kept up because SDV makes the S3 a non-starter for me). Would you rather they disable the port altogether, as I believe some cableco's have done? I'm sure that would upset the folks who have been successful, including a whole lot of vegggas' customers. :)

I DO understand the issues, obviously a port on a piece of hardware that COULD be VERY useful that can not be used is also frustrating. I DO understand the argument that half a loaf is better than none. BUT, the loaf here is the software and it may very well be that I'm kinda in the minority, but I also believe skanky software "lowers the bar" for what folks will or won't accept. See?

Riverside_Guy

11-22-06, 12:04 PM

If this is entirely Venusian to you...

Ah, now that tells me the right tale. But Venus? What happened to Mars?

Besides, I hate Venusian, is all way too lilting. Gimme some good Kilngon, now that's a man's language!

pepar

11-22-06, 12:08 PM

I'm in Charleston, Sc.

Comcast cable

If I remember correctly it is NOT the passport version

unsure about software version until saturday
The software and version will affect the answer to your question. Please post when you've determined that!

pepar

11-22-06, 12:11 PM

Ah, now that tells me the right tale. But Venus? What happened to Mars?

Besides, I hate Venusian, is all way too lilting. Gimme some good Kilngon, now that's a man's language!
You hittin' the tryptophan already? :)

ElwayLite

11-22-06, 12:29 PM

The software and version will affect the answer to your question. Please post when you've determined that!

Will post Saturday, thanks.

pepar

11-22-06, 12:38 PM

Will post Saturday, thanks.
Here is an extremely helpful post by DoubleDAZ (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8559304&&#post8559304) that would be good to read regardless of your software. It is a good way to familiarize yourself with the 8300HD and some of the connectivity "issues" surrounding it.

ElwayLite

11-22-06, 12:50 PM

Here is an extremely helpful post by DoubleDAZ (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8559304&&#post8559304) that would be good to read regardless of your software. It is a good way to familiarize yourself with the 8300HD and some of the connectivity "issues" surrounding it.

Thanks.

Scarlett

11-22-06, 12:57 PM

I am getting the 8300HD installed on Saturday and have been reading many many posts in this thread. I have come up with this configuration for an external drive and wanted to get some input on it before I order:

All from Newegg

1 OKGEAR SATA II Cable $3.99

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $95.00

APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT 3.5" SATA External Enclosure - Retail $39.99

Does this look like a good setup for the 8300hd? Thanks in advance.I like the Apricorn enclosure, and it will come with the cable you need.

I would avoid any hard drive with Perpendicular Recording Technology.

Scarlett

davehancock

11-22-06, 01:28 PM

As for good nights and bad nights, I can't think of any reason why that would happen other than possible signal fluctuations due to expansion and contraction of connectors, but that's just a guess. The "cable guy" that came for my last visit (and replaced F connectors) kept mentioning ingress, which I took to mean RF around the house getting into the cable.Pepar, you are correct on the ingress. But it is not limited to "the house". It can get into the cable system from anywhere with a bad connector, bad ground etc. It is a particular problem near a transmitter where ingress can overpower a digital cable signal. On analog cable, ingress used to show up as ghosts (on cable systems where they don't shift the station frequency. In digital, it can completely overwhelm the signal. I was talking to someone here in Rochester with this problem and he had checked his levels on his 8300 and they were fine, but his S/N readings were ZERO! TW here, in all their wisdom, put the local ABC HD and PBS HD signal on the same frequency as the local FOX analog signal. Bottom line is that in a few areas you can't get these two HD stations on cable (until TW finds the source of the ingress and fixes it - or changes the QAM channel).

When people check their signal levels it is important to do that while tuned to the station that they want to see, and to check the S/N level as well. There can be a big variation with different stations (QAM frequencies).

cuzzin

11-22-06, 04:14 PM

So being that my signal status did not read as a problem, yet I do continue to have "good nights/bad nights," (like yesterday, House recorded with more glitches that usual, and I hardly ever have problems with that show) what is the reccomended action I take here? Should I just have someone from the cable company come over to look at it?

archiguy

11-22-06, 04:54 PM

redjr

11-22-06, 05:28 PM

This isn't the first time I haven't made myself clear. :) The Tech didn't mean that with the external drive disconnected that the diagnostic screen would give me information on the SATA drive--he meant that if I disconnected the external SATA drive, the diagnostic screen would then tell me about the internal drive! He was wrong. I am still getting the message that info on HDD 1 is "unavailable," and it's in bright pink! I read somewhere online that if information is reported as "unavailable," it means that a module is missing--or that feature is disabled. That's why I thought it might have something to do with the upgrade.

Ah... now I understand. :)

All of my hard drives in Apricorn enclosures run cool, and I have never heard either the fan or the hard drive making any appreciable noise. Others have complained about noisy Seagate drives, and have said that the Apricorn fan makes too much noise, but that is not my experience with either.

ad to hear that you are getting perfect recordings with your 160GB Seagate. It isn't one of the PRT drives, is it? Didn't you have a larger drive that you were having problems with? Or, are you just waiting before you buy a larger drive to see which one works best? I am really tempted by that 500GB WD at CompUSA!

Scarlett
No, my 160GB is not a PRT drive. In fact, it's almost a couple yrs old! Right now, I'm basically useing it as a test drive to see if my SATA port was working. I was going to get the 500GB WD drive at CompUSA, but went back yesterday to pick one up and they were sold out. I shouldn't have waited. :eek: I guess I'll have to wait for another deal to come along. :D

I don't think either the Apricorn fan or the Seagate drive are too noisy, so I'm :cool:.

Scarlett

11-22-06, 07:14 PM

I was ready to buy the WD 500GB drive today at my local CompUSA and wouldn't you know it, they were sold out! :eek: This was only a 4 day sale ending tomorrow. The ole saying... "Strike while the iron is hot!" :(If you still are interested in this hard drive, I have found an even better deal on it at Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136014#spec

I called CompUSA and got the model number, then Googled it and found this one. The only difference is that the one at Newegg is OEM, and the one at CompUSA is retail. You really need only the OEM, however, since it is going into an external enclosure. The price at Newegg is the same as the price at CompUSA after rebate, and there is a $10 rebate at Newegg that will make the final price for this drive $10 less than CompUSA's price after rebate. Also, Newegg has 3-day FREE shipping and no tax (at least for Texas).

Just an FYI. :)

Scarlett

cuzzin

11-22-06, 07:50 PM

On an external drive? That's not officially "supported" in the first place? Good luck with that. ;)
The glitches happen during the recordings themselves, not during playback. Also some nights are practically glitch free, others aren't. This leads me to believe something is wrong signal-wise.

archiguy

11-22-06, 08:02 PM

If you still are interested in this hard drive, I have found an even better deal on it at Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136014#spec

I called CompUSA and got the model number, then Googled it and found this one. The only difference is that the one at Newegg is OEM, and the one at CompUSA is retail. You really need only the OEM, however, since it is going into an external enclosure. The price at Newegg is the same as the price at CompUSA after rebate, and there is a $10 rebate at Newegg that will make the final price for this drive $10 less than CompUSA's price after rebate. Also, Newegg has 3-day FREE shipping and no tax (at least for Texas).

Just an FYI. :)

Scarlett

Yep, a better price. Looks like I bought mine a couple of days too soon. Nice to know I haven't lost my touch. :)

redjr

11-22-06, 09:54 PM

Scarlett

11-22-06, 11:27 PM

Yep, a better price. Looks like I bought mine a couple of days too soon. Nice to know I haven't lost my touch. :)You do know that you can return the one you bought at CompUSA, don't you? If I remember correctly, the young man I spoke with told me that I could return it within 21 days--even if it had been opened and used! There were only 3 left in Austin, so I had him hold one for me. Then I found the one on Newegg! Better price and more time to make a decision. No-brainer!

Scarlett

Riverside_Guy

11-23-06, 10:10 AM

You hittin' the tryptophan already? :)

Was I asleep at the post<g>?

DKilleen

11-23-06, 06:11 PM

The proper order for Passport seems to be to have both the 8300HD and the external drive powered and on before connecting the two. Try that.

Pepar, when I do that I got amessage that said that the external drive was hooked up incorrectly. It said that I should check my cables. Cables were fine.

Any other ideas?

Thanks

David

Scarlett

11-23-06, 07:40 PM

Pepar, when I do that I got amessage that said that the external drive was hooked up incorrectly. It said that I should check my cables. Cables were fine.

Any other ideas?

Thanks

DavidFirst, check your Recording Space Used and make a note of the percentage. Next go here: http://www.peparsplace.com/html/22.html and follow the directions. Then reboot and check your Recording Space Used again. See if the percentage has decreased. If it has, then the external drive has been detected and formatted, and it should be available for recordings.

I am on SARA, and I don't know if the hard reboot works the same for Passport, but pepar can tell you. When I got the message about checking my cables, I just disconnected everything and started over, each time doing the hard reboot. I have no idea how many times I had to do that before it finally "took." Several others have reported the same experience. Just keep doing it, over and over, until you have success.

Also, please add your location, provider, software & version to each post--either under your Member name or in your signature. I had to go back to find your original post to get that information--but I was fairly certain about your being on Passport since pepar was trying to help you out. :)

Good luck!

Scarlett

archiguy

11-23-06, 07:50 PM

You do know that you can return the one you bought at CompUSA, don't you? If I remember correctly, the young man I spoke with told me that I could return it within 21 days--even if it had been opened and used! There were only 3 left in Austin, so I had him hold one for me. Then I found the one on Newegg! Better price and more time to make a decision. No-brainer!

Scarlett

No, I didn't buy mine there. I got it online (the OEM, or bare drive, price), but those prices change quickly, and never, it seems in my favor. It's a good thing I don't play the market. :p

Riverside_Guy

11-24-06, 11:16 AM

Actually, the problem I find is that all too many times I see a really good price, then I "think" about whether I should or should not buy. I make the decision, go back to buy and the price has jumped up! Or I'll see a coupon about a discount if bought by X, so I wait for X. Except, my X is actually after their X, so when I do my last minute thing, guess what? It's X+1!

Best thing to do is try and put a place like dealnews/dealmac on your regular web browsing schedule. And if you see something that looks especially good, go for it.

Newyorker

11-24-06, 11:38 AM

Enjoy! 500G Drive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?CMP=AFC-TechBargains&Item=N82E16822148136

pepar

11-24-06, 03:52 PM

The glitches happen during the recordings themselves, not during playback. Also some nights are practically glitch free, others aren't. This leads me to believe something is wrong signal-wise.
Have you watched in real time any of the shows you're recording to "see" if there are any glitches in the "live" signal. (Buffering precludes any real LIVE TV watching.) That would be first - note the quality of the incoming signal, and then record while watching, noting any glitches. Then on playback you can compare recorded to live. If you see a glitch in playback, stop rewind and see if it's there the second time through.

pepar

11-24-06, 03:54 PM

pepar

11-24-06, 03:56 PM

Pepar, when I do that I got amessage that said that the external drive was hooked up incorrectly. It said that I should check my cables. Cables were fine.

Any other ideas?
The cables/connectors/connections *inside* your enclosure OK?

Scarlett

11-24-06, 04:28 PM

Enjoy! 500G Drive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?CMP=AFC-TechBargains&Item=N82E16822148136This hard drive uses Perpendicular Recording Technology. I don't think it will work well as an external drive for the 8300.

Scarlett

pepar

11-24-06, 05:39 PM

This hard drive uses Perpendicular Recording Technology. I don't think it will work well as an external drive for the 8300.

Scarlett
I know your experiences suggest this, but I can't see why the type of recording technology would prevent it from working on a DVR. You *may* be right, but I don't understand why it would be so. :confused:

Scarlett

11-24-06, 08:44 PM

I know your experiences suggest this, but I can't see why the type of recording technology would prevent it from working on a DVR. You *may* be right, but I don't understand why it would be so. :confused:I'm not the only one who has had problems with a PRT hard drive--xnappo had the same experience with his 400GB Seagate. It is my understanding that these hard drives work well in computers, but not as well for the 8300. If this isn't the case, I stand corrected. But if I were buying a 500GB SATA drive, I would pay another $20 and get the Western Digital at Newegg--especially since my 8300's both have WD internal drives. I love my 300GB Seagates, but they are both pre-PRT.

Scarlett

xnappo

11-24-06, 09:16 PM

I'm not the only one who has had problems with a PRT hard drive--xnappo had the same experience with his 400GB Seagate. It is my understanding that these hard drives work well in computers, but not as well for the 8300. If this isn't the case, I stand corrected. But if I were buying a 500GB SATA drive, I would pay another $20 and get the Western Digital at Newegg--especially since my 8300's both have WD internal drives. I love my 300GB Seagates, but they are both pre-PRT.

Scarlett

I definately agree that from what we have seen one should not use a Segate 7200.10 which uses perpendicular technology, however I don't think we know that that technology vs. some other random 'improvement' in HD technology in the 7200.10 series is causing the issue.

Regards,
xnappo

mad6c

11-24-06, 09:26 PM

cuzzin

11-24-06, 10:26 PM

Have you watched in real time any of the shows you're recording to "see" if there are any glitches in the "live" signal. (Buffering precludes any real LIVE TV watching.) That would be first - note the quality of the incoming signal, and then record while watching, noting any glitches. Then on playback you can compare recorded to live. If you see a glitch in playback, stop rewind and see if it's there the second time through.

Read davehancock's post above (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8966240&&#post8966240).
Yeah I've done pretty much everything you listed here. I will let a program play for about 10 minutes without recording to see if there are any noticeable glitches. After 10 minutes, I start recording that program, and the number of glitches definitely increases while recording. The playback is about as good as the actual live recording, having the same number of glitches the live recording had. The glitches don't go away upon rewinding, they are recorded from the original broadcast along with the rest of the recording.

Scarlett

11-24-06, 10:58 PM

I connected my Apricorn eSATA enclosure (new one that is both USB and eSATA) and Seagate 320GB 7200.10 drive to my 8300, it asked to format I said OK, reboot and used space percentage decreased accordingly.

So far so good, I'll update if I start noticing problems.Congratulations! Let us know how it works out. Maybe your 320GB 7200.10 won't give you the problems we have experienced with the 400GB 7200.10 Seagates.

In the meantime: Provider? SARA or Passport? Version?

Scarlett

skanter1

11-24-06, 11:07 PM

Congratulations! Let us know how it works out. Maybe your 320GB 7200.10 won't give you the problems we have experienced with the 400GB 7200.10 Seagates.

In the meantime: Provider? SARA or Passport? Version?

I'm using SA8300HD, Passport, latest version. Bought this combo:

Rosewill RX343-S SLV 3.5" eSATA and USB 2.0 External Enclosure
Seagate Barracuda ST3320620AS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA Drive
Quality Cables SS-1ESES eSATA to eSATA Cable (1m - 3ft.)

About $128.

Working perfectly for the past two weeks, not a glitch.

redjr

11-24-06, 11:16 PM

You do know that you can return the one you bought at CompUSA, don't you? If I remember correctly, the young man I spoke with told me that I could return it within 21 days--even if it had been opened and used! There were only 3 left in Austin, so I had him hold one for me. Then I found the one on Newegg! Better price and more time to make a decision. No-brainer!

Scarlett
I think CompUSA has a 15% re-stocking fee though. At least my local store does. :eek: YMMV.

mad6c

11-25-06, 12:54 AM

Sorry here are the specifics:

SARA 1.88.23.1, Cablevision, Nassau County, Long Island.

APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT (eSATA & USB) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817362002

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140

pepar

11-25-06, 09:45 AM

I definately agree that from what we have seen one should not use a Segate 7200.10 which uses perpendicular technology, however I don't think we know that that technology vs. some other random 'improvement' in HD technology in the 7200.10 series is causing the issue.

Regards,
xnappo
You may be on to something there that makes sense to me; some other detail about the electronics and/or PC optimization is at fault. And that jives with davehancock's recollection of a tactic of defeating error correction for use with SARA. The better a hard drive performs with a computer, the less suitable it is for a DVR.

pepar

11-25-06, 09:47 AM

I connected my Apricorn eSATA enclosure (new one that is both USB and eSATA) and Seagate 320GB 7200.10 drive to my 8300, it asked to format I said OK, reboot and used space percentage decreased accordingly.

So far so good, I'll update if I start noticing problems.
I'm sure Scarlett and xnappo are following your experiences closely as they've not had success with this family of drives.

pepar

11-25-06, 09:51 AM

I'm using SA8300HD, Passport, latest version. Bought this combo:

Rosewill RX343-S SLV 3.5" eSATA and USB 2.0 External Enclosure
Seagate Barracuda ST3320620AS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA Drive
Quality Cables SS-1ESES eSATA to eSATA Cable (1m - 3ft.)

About $128.

Working perfectly for the past two weeks, not a glitch.
That does seem to be a big factor in being able to successfully use an external drive. After coming late to the party, Passport seems to be way less finicky than SARA.

Scarlett

11-25-06, 10:11 AM

I think CompUSA has a 15% re-stocking fee though. At least my local store does. :eek: YMMV.Hmmm.....you would think that all of the CompUSA stores would have the same policy. I was assured that there would be no restocking fee--information that was volunteered! This really surprised me, especially in view of past bad PR for them. Maybe they are making an attempt to be more customer-friendly.

I haven't decided to make the leap to 500GB yet. My 300GB drives are working well, and the jury is still out on what is going to happen with Navigator.

Scarlett

Riverside_Guy

11-25-06, 10:53 AM

I haven't decided to make the leap to 500GB yet. My 300GB drives are working well, and the jury is still out on what is going to happen with Navigator.

Scarlett

Then I'd say stick with what you got (besides, 300-320G drives are still the sweet spot as far as cost per goes)! Seriously, we KNOW that "support" for external storage has many, many issues and bugs. We KNOW that no cable company will actually say they support this function. Despite what some may say, this is all very characteristic of shipping alpha software... obviously the cable companies HAVE made a business decision to leave this very early, quite skanky alpha code in their "shipping code" and then decline to even discuss or talk about it.

Given there are zero issues with perpendicular recording in other applications, you can't lay the blame on it. AND given the skanky implementation, it may work fine for one person but not for another.

You are correct, it's actually moot to concern ourselves about SARA or Passport as it certainly LOOKS like both will be replaced by Mystro, at least in TWC systems. AND it appears TWC is at least aware that customers want proper support (I think it tied for first place in the "Consumer Interest" thread).

RaveD

11-25-06, 12:38 PM

I'm really beginning to think that the drive has very little to do with compatibility issues. The "solidness" of the SATA connection between the 8300 and external drive seems to be very important.

I had nothing but problems with an ePower enclosure with a SATA to eSATA cable. I switched to a Rosweill with a new eSATA-eSATA cable and all of my problems disappeared. Things that really stressed the box before are now glitch-free, such as watching an HD program from the beginning as it is being recorded, and recording to a drive that is almost full.

For me, at least, the drive was not the issue. It was the SATA connection itself, be it due to the enclosure or cable.

mad6c

11-25-06, 03:44 PM

pepar

11-25-06, 04:38 PM

Just a thought but I checked and verified that the jumpers on the hard drive were set to limit speed to 1.5Gbps. This is the way my drive arrived but I would think you would want to force the drive to the slow speeds if the host device, 8300HD, doesn't support the faster speeds. Has anyone played with these settings?
The SATA300 drives are supposed to be backwardly compatible with SATA150 host adapters, but I've heard of combinations of those that did not function properly. Jumpering to force SATA150 operation is a way to GUARANTEE that they communicate properly.

skanter1

11-25-06, 07:23 PM

That does seem to be a big factor in being able to successfully use an external drive. After coming late to the party, Passport seems to be way less finicky than SARA.

Besides being less finicky, it is also has far more features and advanced functionality.

broadwayblue

11-26-06, 02:09 AM

Maybe your 320GB 7200.10 won't give you the problems we have experienced with the 400GB 7200.10 Seagates.

Scarlett

What kinds of problems have you experienced with the 400GB 7200.10 Seagates? I installed mine about a month ago and it has been mostly problem free. I do get some pixelation/breakups, but I got nearly as many before I added the external drive.

Scarlett

11-26-06, 03:05 AM

What kinds of problems have you experienced with the 400GB 7200.10 Seagates? I installed mine about a month ago and it has been mostly problem free. I do get some pixelation/breakups, but I got nearly as many before I added the external drive.See my post #3121 on 11/13/06.

I had absolutely perfect picture and audio quality without an external drive, and after I filled the internal drive with recordings and reconnected my 300GB 7200.8 Seagate, I am now getting the same perfect picture and audio quality that I enjoyed before adding it. I have not tried the 400GB 7200.10 Seagate with the 92% full internal drive.

What is your location? Who is your provider? Are you SARA or Passport? What version?

Scarlett

redjr

11-26-06, 10:08 AM

What kinds of problems have you experienced with the 400GB 7200.10 Seagates? I installed mine about a month ago and it has been mostly problem free. I do get some pixelation/breakups, but I got nearly as many before I added the external drive.
Yes. Those kinds of issues would lead me to believe it's not the external drives fault. I agree with you that the pixelation can happen irregardless of whether or not an external drive is attached. In fact, I only get the Discover Channel HD - in a watchable state - about 50% of the time. :eek: For some reason TWC has severe problems with the transmission of that particular HD channel. This occurs routinely and even before my drive was attached. All others work as expected.

redjr

11-26-06, 10:11 AM

Hmmm.....you would think that all of the CompUSA stores would have the same policy. I was assured that there would be no restocking fee--information that was volunteered! This really surprised me, especially in view of past bad PR for them. Maybe they are making an attempt to be more customer-friendly.

I haven't decided to make the leap to 500GB yet. My 300GB drives are working well, and the jury is still out on what is going to happen with Navigator.

Scarlett
Unless their return policy has changed, or unless otherwise agreed to before a purchase, in the past CompUSA has charged me the 15% restocking fee. Needless tosay, it has changed my buying habits at their local store.

ElwayLite

11-26-06, 10:25 AM

OK,

here's my setup as requested. Any comments on if the ext hdd is activated and on what type of setup I should use. Thanks

SA8300HD
SARA 1.87.23.1
Charleston, SC
Comcast

pepar

11-26-06, 10:50 AM

Besides being less finicky, it is also has far more features and advanced functionality.
From what I read, it has *different* features. But having never used it, I can't say if either is better than the other. Regardless, I don't think we need to get into an us-and-them discussion on this thread.

Riverside_Guy

11-26-06, 11:19 AM

Besides, it's all going to be moot when they start deploying Mystro; although it seems that Passport users will get transitioned first.

FWIW, "SATA interfaces" are generally of the dumb variety (as opposed to USB or FireWire). Essentially, they bring the pins on the drive to the motherboard; USB and FW have silicon in the way to encode the raw signals into those protocols (which must then be decoded back as they go into the appropriate bus). So the only issue with a SATA connection is broken or kinked wires, not fully seating the connection, bad connector. i.e. there is a lot less to "go wrong" with such connections.

broadwayblue

11-26-06, 02:02 PM

See my post #3121 on 11/13/06.

I had absolutely perfect picture and audio quality without an external drive, and after I filled the internal drive with recordings and reconnected my 300GB 7200.8 Seagate, I am now getting the same perfect picture and audio quality that I enjoyed before adding it. I have not tried the 400GB 7200.10 Seagate with the 92% full internal drive.

What is your location? Who is your provider? Are you SARA or Passport? What version?

Scarlett

I'm in NYC on TWC Passport. I think it's the latest version that came out a couple months ago.

xnappo

11-26-06, 02:22 PM

... but if trying an external case with a direct connection rather than my USB/eSATA case doesn't work, I guess I will do a box swap...

Regards,
xnappo

P.S. Not the first:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7414019&&#post7414019
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6430106&&#post6430106

Well, I got my Apricorn enclosure. At first I was upset because it *did* have USB, which is what I was trying to avoid - however preliminary indications are that it works with my Maxtor 6L300S0! I no longer get breakup during stress testing (recording 2 HD streams while playing one back while it records).

I know there is the question of if it would work with my Seagate 7200.10 400GB drive, but sorry I am not going to try.

So from my experience:

AZIO USB/SATA case/Maxtor 6L300S0/Sara 1.88.17.a100 - FAIL
AZIO USB/SATA case/Seagate 400GB 7200.10/Sara 1.88.17.a100 - FAIL
Apricorn USB/SATA case/Maxtor 6L300S0/Sara 1.88.17.a100 - PASS
Apricorn USB/SATA case/Seagate 400GB 7200.10/Sara 1.88.17.a100 - UNKNOWN

I am not going to call it completly good until my wife catches up with her soaps and we switch over 100% from my trusty 8000HD - but it is much much better than what was happening with the AZIO case.

BTW - the box was 4% full when I added the drive.

Regards,
xnappo

pepar

11-26-06, 04:11 PM

Well, I got my Apricorn enclosure. At first I was upset because it *did* have USB, which is what I was trying to avoid - however preliminary indications are that it works with my Maxtor 6L300S0! I no longer get breakup during stress testing (recording 2 HD streams while playing one back while it records).
Congratulations!

davehancock

11-26-06, 04:23 PM

We KNOW that no cable company will actually say they support this function. I guess that I should not expect you guys who live in NYC to realize this: but several of the cable companies in CANADA (where their customers "own" their 8300s) do support external drives and actually sell them to their customers. So, your statement would be correct if you said that "no US cable company...."

skanter1

11-26-06, 04:28 PM

From what I read, it has *different* features. But having never used it, I can't say if either is better than the other. Regardless, I don't think we need to get into an us-and-them discussion on this thread.

Obviously no one is getting into a competition about this :rolleyes:.
From what I've read of both, Passport seems to have more advanced features.

Note: this is for informational and scientific purposes only! Anyone feeling superior because they have Passport or inferior because they have SARA software is an idiot. ;)

pepar

11-26-06, 04:30 PM

Obviously no one is getting into a competition about this :rolleyes:.
From what I've read of both, Passport seems to have more advanced features.

Note: this is for informational and scientific value only! Anyone feeling superior because they have Passport software is an idiot. ;)
:)

Scarlett

11-26-06, 06:10 PM

I know there is the question of if it would work with my Seagate 7200.10 400GB drive, but sorry I am not going to try.So, am I going to have to "bite the bullet" and go first? :) I will have to catch up on my recorded programs before I swap the hard drives, but I will make the switch and let you know how it works. I hope I don't shoot myself in the foot!

I am not going to call it completly good until my wife catches up with her soaps and we switch over 100% from my trusty 8000HD - but it is much much better than what was happening with the AZIO case.Did you get a new SATA cable with the Apricorn enclosure? If so, are you using it, or are you using the cable that you used with the AZIO case?

BTW - the box was 4% full when I added the drive.After you added the external drive, how much did the percentage drop? How much HD programming have you added since then? What do your playbacks look like? Are they as perfect as they were on the internal drive?

Also, are you able to see the specifics for the internal and external drives on page 33 of the diagnostic screens? That information is listed as "Unavailable" to me. I know for a fact it was available before the upgrade in February, and I can't imagine why either the upgrade or TW would have made it unavailable. If you can't see that information either, I am going to assume it is something that TW has disabled--or failed to enable--because my son's 8300HD with Charter in Fort Worth, also on SARA, displays that information. I don't remember what his SARA version number is--I will call him to find out.

Congratulations on finally getting a working setup!

Scarlett

xnappo

11-26-06, 06:32 PM

So, am I going to have to "bite the bullet" and go first? :)

Ladies first :)

Did you get a new SATA cable with the Apricorn enclosure? If so, are you using it, or are you using the cable that you used with the AZIO case?

Yes, it is similar in length, but does seem a little more snug.

After you added the external drive, how much did the percentage drop? How much HD programming have you added since then? What do your playbacks look like? Are they as perfect as they were on the internal drive?

It went from 4% to 1%. The playback looks perfect - just like with the internal drive. Like I said though, I will need to use it for a week or so to really trust it works well.

Also, are you able to see the specifics for the internal and external drives on page 33 of the diagnostic screens? That information is listed as "Unavailable" to me. I know for a fact it was available before the upgrade in February, and I can't imagine why either the upgrade or TW would have made it unavailable. If you can't see that information either, I am going to assume it is something that TW has disabled--or failed to enable--because my son's 8300HD with Charter in Fort Worth, also on SARA, displays that information. I don't remember what his SARA version number is--I will call him to find out.

Yep - they changed something with that. I can't get that info on either my 8000HD or 8300HD. Annoying.

Congratulations on finally getting a working setup!
Scarlett
Thanks for your help in getting me here!
Chris

DoubleDAZ

11-26-06, 06:43 PM

AZIO USB/SATA case/Maxtor 6L300S0/Sara 1.88.17.a100 - FAIL
AZIO USB/SATA case/Seagate 400GB 7200.10/Sara 1.88.17.a100 - FAIL
Apricorn USB/SATA case/Maxtor 6L300S0/Sara 1.88.17.a100 - PASS
Apricorn USB/SATA case/Seagate 400GB 7200.10/Sara 1.88.17.a100 - UNKNOWN
This is good info and I've added it to the summary post referenced in the first post.

Manatus

11-28-06, 06:10 PM

smook

11-28-06, 06:19 PM

Sorry, bad news.

You pouched the drive enclosure, possibly a resistor. Maybe the drive.
In my case it damaged the external sata drive and my 8300HD. I had to get both replaced.

I needed to get the entire unit fixed under warranty. They just swapped it out with a totally new unit. I was using the Maxtor Expander Quickview.

This happens when the power is turned off and the PVR is still on. This is all related to the power on/off of the PVR and the sata ii. Frys something somewhere.

Good luck. BTW your movies might be lost and further recording on the 8300HD will be suspect, unless you re-format the 8300HD now.

Let us know.
Bill. :eek:

pepar

11-28-06, 06:48 PM

smook

11-28-06, 07:13 PM

smook may just be trying to transfer some of his grief to you. :)

Pepar, I respect your position here, you have helped me in the past. But isn't it true that the power is a big issue when the power cycle is NOT turned-off-on in the correct order with the external sata drive setups?

This has damaged my external drives several times now.

Please comment.
-Bill. :cool:

mad6c

11-28-06, 07:26 PM

Anyone else see this before? My drive and enclosure were connected and powered up, but the available space was back at the pre-expanded size. I checked the diagnostics screens and the drive showed in the menu however the size of the AVFS partition on the external displayed as 0. The other partition ("IFS", i think) was the normal size.

After a reboot of the 8300HD it went back to normal and the diagnostica screens showed the right sizes.

Mike

SARA 1.88.23.1, Cablevision, Nassau County, Long Island.
APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT (eSATA & USB) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16817362002
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16822148140

davehancock

11-28-06, 08:33 PM

skanter1

11-28-06, 09:33 PM

DoubleDAZ

11-28-06, 09:38 PM

Yes. The 8300 is never totally off, it just goes into a standby mode so that scheduled recordings still get recorded.

pepar

11-28-06, 11:40 PM

Pepar, I respect your position here, you have helped me in the past. But isn't it true that the power is a big issue when the power cycle is NOT turned-off-on in the correct order with the external sata drive setups?

This has damaged my external drives several times now.

Please comment.
-Bill. :cool:
I'm not saying you didn't experience damage by "powering down" the external drive improperly, but of the two times I did it - accidentally one time and out of stupidity the other - I only lost data one time. No drive damage, only loss of content because upon re-powering everything the 8300HD said "Hi, wanna format this new drive I just found?" DOH!

Loss of data - perhaps. Permanent damage to the drive - I just can't see. What did you do to verify actual damage and not just scrambled formatting?

Hmmm, as I re-read my post I see that I *am* questioning if you experienced damage by "powering down" the external drive improperly . . . :)

Manatus

11-29-06, 08:58 AM

smook may just be trying to transfer some of his grief to you. :)

Have you gone into DIAG and looked at the drive space stats? If not, do that.

The external drive doesn't show up anywhere in DIAG -- not in the drive space stats or on the SATA screen. I now think that smook's "fried" diagnosis is probably correct. The red drive activity light on the SATA enclosure lights up whenever the drive is powered on even when the drive isn't spinning and is disconnected from the 8300HD. I hope that the damage is confined to the enclosure electronics and that the drive itself is ok. Too soon to know that, though. The programs recorded on the now-removed SATA still appear on the 8300HD's recordings list, but the DVR does let me delete them manually. No evidence (yet) of any damage to the DVR.

pepar

11-29-06, 09:19 AM

redjr

11-29-06, 09:27 AM

The external drive doesn't show up anywhere in DIAG -- not in the drive space stats or on the SATA screen. I now think that smook's "fried" diagnosis is probably correct. The red drive activity light on the SATA enclosure lights up whenever the drive is powered on even when the drive isn't spinning and is disconnected from the 8300HD. I hope that the damage is confined to the enclosure electronics and that the drive itself is ok. Too soon to know that, though. The programs recorded on the now-removed SATA still appear on the 8300HD's recordings list, but the DVR does let me delete them manually. No evidence (yet) of any damage to the DVR.
If I might chime in here... One method of trouble-shooting the external SATA drive would be to connect it to a computer. Do you have one that has SATA ports on the motherboard? Better yet, connect it using the USB port instead of the eSATA port. Now it may be that the format is different and your computer may not recogonize the drive. If this happens you may need other software tools to assess the drive's health. Do you have any HD utilities like Partition Magic? If so, PM should recognize any drive attached to your system - including external USB ones. If PM recogonizes the drive, you could try and reformat it to NTFS, or FAT32 and then try connecting to your DVR. If not, try removing the drive from the enclosure and connecting it directly to your computer via the SATA port. Any response? If still no, then it's possible the drive sustained some form of 'physical' damage during the accidental power-down. But, from what you've described thus far, I find that hard to believe. But there's always a first time!

archiguy

11-29-06, 10:10 AM

My Apricorn enclosure arrived yesterday, and my WD SE16 500GB drive is supposed to arrive tomorrow. I'll give this puppy a whirl and report on my findings. But as I'm on Passport, it would be helpful to have the "power-up/down" procedure spelled out, especially since folks here have experienced problems if not done correctly. I've tried to go back thru the thread and find it, but it gets a little confusing. Perhaps it should be "stuck" somewhere on the first page...?

Is it just as simple as making sure the DVR is turned "on" (meaning the output ports are active since it's always technically "on"), then turning on the external drive/enclosure, then connecting the eSATA cable? Do you then repeat the process in reverse to shut it all down (in other words, do you power down the enclosure, then the DVR)...? Because I always turn the DVR "off" (meaning the output ports go dormant) every night. Do I need to turn the external drive off as well, or should I leave it "on" all the time?

Thanks to anyone who chooses to help with these questions instead of scolding me to go dig it out of the thread even if it takes all day. ;)

Manatus

11-29-06, 10:11 AM

pepar

11-29-06, 10:21 AM

redjr

11-29-06, 10:23 AM

pepar

11-29-06, 10:24 AM

DoubleDAZ

11-29-06, 10:30 AM

Thanks to anyone who chooses to help with these questions instead of scolding me to go dig it out of the thread even if it takes all day. ;)I think the "scolding" (good-natured to be sure) comes from the fact that pepar's signature contains a link to almost all that is needed with regard to SATA with Passport.

I'll grant you that this is not normally a place where folks would look for such info, but it's there nonetheless and has been mentioned several times in the thread. I don't know if there is a link to similar instructions for SATA/SARA, but I'll send a PM to DMILANI to see if he won't add a reference to pepar's link in the first post like he did with my summary post. Do you think that will help?

archiguy

11-29-06, 10:41 AM

^...Yes indeedy. Thanks to you, pepar, and redjr, I'm all set.

pepar

11-29-06, 11:12 AM

Thanks to anyone who chooses to help with these questions instead of scolding me to go dig it out of the thread even if it takes all day. ;)
I've been trying to limit my scolding recently. I might reply with few words, but be "un-terse" in the process. (Others will have to judge the success of my efforts. :) ) I also might PM someone a friendly message with help and a hint at forum etiquette done in such a way so as to empower them to get more out of the wonderful resource that is this forum.

edit: ooooh, better pick up your feet. it's getting deep in here. :D

redjr

11-29-06, 11:14 AM

I have connected the drive to a computer via USB; the computer doesn't recognize its presence (and I don't have PM or anything similar). I've also connected it to a different 8300HD, which also can't detect it. Unfortunately, neither of my computers can handle a SATA drive.
If you can't hook it to a computer SATA port directly, then it's hard to say whether it's the electronics of your enclosure, or the HD itself. Does the drive spin up at all when power is applied? It sounds to me like more diagnostics is needed to fully determine what component(s) is at fault - the enclosure, HD, or both.

DoubleDAZ

11-29-06, 11:14 AM

pepar,

ROTFLMAO!!!! :) :D :)

redjr

11-29-06, 11:38 AM

I'm using Passport 2.5.066 with a Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA installed in a Rosewill RX353-S SLV 3.5" eSATA and USB 2.0 External Enclosure. These worked flawlessly until today when I accidentally bumped into the power button on the external drive enclosure, turning it off. Since then, I've not been able to get the 8300HD to recognize the external drive, even after trying every combination of cold reboots, disconnecting and reconnecting the external drive, and different power-up sequences that I can think of, several of which have been suggested in this thread.

After a cold reboot of the DVR, the list of recorded programs contains those on both the internal and external drives. Those on the internal drive play fine. But when I try to play those that are on the external drive, an error message pops up ("We're sorry, this show is currently unavailable. If an external storage device is connected to your set-top box, please make sure it is powered on and that its cables are properly plugged in"). Of course, it is powered on, and all the connections are tight.

Is there something obvious that I'm missing here?
Manatus,

In re-reading your post here, I'm curious about something... when you bumped the power switch on the enclosure, was it hard enough to physically move or tilt the drive? Are you using the enclosure in a vertical or horizontal position? The reason I ask is this...

Not long ago, I had a NetDisk network drive (attached to my giga-switch) that had been sitting on my desk and running non-stop for 3 years without as much as a hiccup. I was doing some cleaning and straightening of other things on my desk and very innocently picked up the drive to dust under it. I made the mistake of tilting the aluminum enclosure slightly and WHAM. I immediately heard this loud screeching noise(not good!) and put the drive down.

Well, to make a long story longer, I believe there was a hard head crash and the drive was damaged. My unscientific diagnosis of what happened was... The drive spinning at 5400rpm was fine as long as it was laying flat and undisturbed. The moment I picked it up and tilted it, under the spinning forces of the platter it momentarily acted like a gyroscope thus putting some abnormal forces and stress on the platters and head to affect a crash. I remember as soon as I tilted the enclosure I felt this incredible torque/force on my hand that felt just like a spinning gyroscope does that quickly and forcefully jerked my hand. Then the screeching noise. That was end of that drive and sadly(my own fault) the data too.

Does all this sound too unreasonable to what may have occured in your case/situation? Let's hope so, and that your drive survived.

archiguy

11-29-06, 12:19 PM

Manatus

11-29-06, 12:25 PM

No, the drive is not spinning when the enclosure is powered on (even though the red light indicates that there is read/write activity). The enclosure was installed in a vertical position. When the thing failed, I was seated inside the large cabinet where the enclosure was located working on another piece of equipment. I didn't know that anything had happened until the live program playing on the DVR went silent and I looked at the SATA enclosure and saw that its green power light had gone off. I think that I accidentally brushed against the power button with my right leg. The enclosure remained standing exactly where it had been before this event.

I've ordered a replacement enclosure (a different model) and will now just have to see what happens when I move the drive into it and hook it up to the 8300HD.

Thanks to all for your ideas about this one.

pepar

11-29-06, 01:00 PM

redjr

11-29-06, 01:02 PM

^ That leads to an interesting question... does the position of a hard drive have any effect on its performance? I notice that many who are using these external drives mount them in a vertical position instead of the more "common" flat position, and that's what I intend to do.

And then there's the question of laptops, which are tilted all over the place all the time with no ill effects... maybe they have "special" drives that are more resistant to the kind of gyroscopic tilting problem that redjr describes.
I do think notebook drives are designed for the rigors of portable environments. At the same time, they are not near as heavy as a 3.5" drive - thus the forces and inertia with a 2.5" drive are far less than a spinning 5400/7200 rpm 3.5" drive. They are also often mounted in a dampening mount to avoid the hard 'knocks and shocks' of a well used lappy.

On your other point, I don't think the position of the external HD matters. I have mine mounted vertically, very stable and with good ventilation. It's just when you suddenly 'move/tilt' the spinning drive that may cause problems - either from a vertical or horizontal position. Lesson learned? Wait till the drive spins down before moving it!

DoubleDAZ

11-29-06, 05:59 PM

FWIW, DMILANI kindly added a link to Pepar's Place to the first post. It's at the end under the heading, "SATA and Passport Info".

Icon Smith

11-29-06, 08:45 PM

The RDC power level according to the diagnostics on my 8300HD is 33 dBmV. Is this too low? My QAM signal level (+1) and S/N (36-38) is good. Thanks.

vegggas

11-30-06, 01:18 AM

Icon,
I'm responding to your PM about the RDC here, although the 8300 tips and tricks could be more appropriate.
Lower RDC is better!. Basically it's the level the STB has to pump out to get a signal back to the headend. A higher number means it takes more signal to get back, and also generates more heat.
Note that the amplifier power is doubled every 3.5 db increase. If you are at 33db now, someone with 40 db RDC requires 4x the power (and generated heat) to get the return signal back to the Head End.

vegggas

Manatus

11-30-06, 01:24 PM

The problem that I raised yesterday, in Post #3392, has now apparently been resolved by replacing the apparently damaged eSATA enclosure with a new one (this time an Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT R). I installed the HD in the new enclosure and connected it to the 8300HD. The DVR recognized the presence of the external drive and, since the HD was already formatted, went directly to the warning about the correct disconnection sequence. At this point, I entered DIAG and saw that the 8300HD was not correctly reporting the external drive's free space. I then did a cold reboot, went back into DIAG and was glad to see that the free space report is now accurate. Since the HD did not need to be reformatted, I'd hoped that its contents would still be available. Unfortunately, they're not.

pepar

11-30-06, 02:17 PM

Manatus

11-30-06, 02:39 PM

The damage to the enclosure was done when you "accidentally bumped into the power button on the external drive enclosure, turning it off?"

Yes. After the 8300HD+external drive wouldn't work after the drive was accidentally powered off (while it was running), by process of elimination, I guessed that the source of the problem was most likely a malfunction in the enclosure's electronics, not the DVR or the external HD.

pepar

11-30-06, 02:48 PM

Yes. After the 8300HD+external drive wouldn't work after the drive was accidentally powered off (while it was running), by process of elimination, I guessed that the source of the problem was most likely a malfunction in the enclosure's electronics, not the DVR or the external HD.
Well, that's GOOD, but puzzling. :)

archiguy

11-30-06, 03:10 PM

The WD SE16 500GB drive arrived yesterday. I installed it in the Apricorn enclosure, which took all of 3 minutes, and hooked it up as per the "Passport" instructions. First time flopped, but a cold reboot of the 8300 did the trick. Formatted the drive and my storage space jumped to 597GB. I kind of was expecting something closer to 650GB (160 internal + 500 external), but I guess it's that old DOS convention where the actual space on a hard drive is less than the "advertised" space. Whatever; it's a whole lot more than I had! I've got room for some 60 HD movies now, I figure.

I did a test recording right after that and it was perfect (thank you Passport Echo!). Since I had the internal drive mostly filled up (even had some hourglasses appear on the list the day before; then I watched something and they went away), I guess everything new I record from here on out will end up on the external drive. It would be so nice if the software allowed for directing content to the drive of choice and programs on the list would show up in different colors depending on which drive they got put on, as per the "original" plan when these external drives were first proposed. Now, you really don't know for sure where the content will end up. Note that this drive is not one "optimized for streaming video" (it can thus serve double duty in a computer someday if need be), and is very quiet.

While the drive itself is very quiet, one thing that bummed me out a little is that the Apricorn enclosure's fan is very audible. I mean, it's not bad, and is probably pretty quiet relatively speaking, but it was jarring to actually hear it in my theater room that was heretofore quite quiet. I wonder if I can wrap something around the case (leaving the front and back open, of course) that would attenuate the sound somewhat...? Anybody have any ideas?

redjr

11-30-06, 03:21 PM

The damage to the enclosure was done when you "accidentally bumped into the power button on the external drive enclosure, turning it off?"
I don't see how accidentally powering off the enclosure would be any different then purposely powering it off. :confused: Even if data was being written to the drive this should not happen. Clearly, something happened to the enclosure's electronics, either coincidently (but unrelated) with the power issue, or was brought about by the power being turned off. I'm not sure if the 'accidental' part of the power down is to blame. ;)

pepar

11-30-06, 03:29 PM

I don't see how accidentally powering off the enclosure would be any different then purposely powering it off. :confused: Even if data was being written to the drive this should not happen. Clearly, something happened to the enclosure's electronics, either coincidently (but unrelated) with the power issue, or was brought about by the power being turned off. I'm not sure if the 'accidental' part of the power down is to blame. ;)
That's why it's puzzling :)

redjr

11-30-06, 03:31 PM

redjr

11-30-06, 03:32 PM

That's why it's puzzling :)
:)

Manatus

11-30-06, 03:37 PM

After it formats an external drive, Passport warns that it should not be "disconnected" before the DVR is powered (not just turned) off. I think that if any generalization can be drawn from my experience, that warning should be enlarged to include turning off, not just disconnecting, an external drive (whether accidentally or purposefully). I'm taking the further precaution of installing a hard plastic chastity belt over the drive's power switch, to avoid future mishaps of this sort.

pepar

11-30-06, 03:43 PM

While the drive itself is very quiet, one thing that bummed me out a little is that the Apricorn enclosure's fan is very audible. I mean, it's not bad, and is probably pretty quiet relatively speaking, but it was jarring to actually hear it in my theater room that was heretofore quite quiet. I wonder if I can wrap something around the case (leaving the front and back open, of course) that would attenuate the sound somewhat...? Anybody have any ideas?
Your fan is your friend. Don't do anything that would lessen the heat dissipation of the enclosure. Have you thought about modding the enclosure by swapping the fan for a quieter one with similar CFM?

archiguy

11-30-06, 04:22 PM

Your fan is your friend. Don't do anything that would lessen the heat dissipation of the enclosure. Have you thought about modding the enclosure by swapping the fan for a quieter one with similar CFM?

Well, the only air intake/exhaust on the enclosure is on the front. Looks like it sucks in air at the top, then flushes it out at the bottom. The case itself stays pretty cool. Seems like I could wrap something like the acoustic mat that redjr mentioned around the enclosure without affecting the airflow around the drive or the grills on the front.

I don't know if I can get another, more quiet fan as this one seems to be designed to fit in this particular enclosure. It's actually in the center of the bottom of the enclosure, which has a "false floor" that the hard drive sits on. There is a gap between this false floor and the bottom-outside cover that acts as a plenum for flushing the hot air back out the grill on the front. Pretty ingenious design, actually. I haven't seen any others though; for all I know they're all made this way.

pepar

11-30-06, 04:29 PM

Well, the only air intake/exhaust on the enclosure is on the front. Looks like it sucks in air at the top, then flushes it out at the bottom. The case itself stays pretty cool. Seems like I could wrap something like the acoustic mat that redjr mentioned around the enclosure without affecting the airflow around the drive or the grills on the front.

I don't know if I can get another, more quiet fan as this one seems to be designed to fit in this particular enclosure. It's actually in the center of the bottom of the enclosure, which has a "false floor" that the hard drive sits on. There is a gap between this false floor and the bottom-outside cover that acts as a plenum for flushing the hot air back out the grill on the front. Pretty ingenious design, actually. I haven't seen any others though; for all I know they're all made this way.
Can you point me to a picture of your enclosure?

Manatus

11-30-06, 04:33 PM

Can you point me to a picture of your enclosure?

I think that I can (same enclosure that I just installed today, I believe):

http://apricorn.com/pdf_product_manuals/EZBusDTSUserGuideRevision2.1.pdf (Look at page 7).

LL3HD

11-30-06, 04:37 PM

redjr

11-30-06, 04:39 PM

Your fan is your friend. Don't do anything that would lessen the heat dissipation of the enclosure. Have you thought about modding the enclosure by swapping the fan for a quieter one with similar CFM?
pepar,

That enclosure fan is very unqiue and not easily removed and replaced with something different. When I put my drive in mine, I noticed the fan and it looks very similar to the type of fan used on video cards in laptops these days - very thin, only about 1/4-3/8" thick, but about 2- 2.5" in diameter. So, it's very flat. It looks like it was designed specifically for the enclosure. With enough time and effort anything can be modded, but in this case(no pun intended) I'm not sure it's worth the effort. :)

pepar

11-30-06, 04:47 PM

I think that I can (same enclosure that I just installed today, I believe):

http://apricorn.com/pdf_product_manuals/EZBusDTSUserGuideRevision2.1.pdf (Look at page 7).
redjr's right, this is a proprietary - of at least custom-made - fan. No dice on "upgrading" it.

archiguy

11-30-06, 04:51 PM

Can an external drive be set up in a room in the floor below where my STB is?
I’m talking about a total distance of no more than 8 feet from the STB to the external HD. My thinking is that this would eliminate any noise problems as archiguy mentioned and also keep it away from any unfortunate accidents as Manatus experienced.

TIA

I wouldn't think that would be a problem - you'd need an extension cord for the power and a long enough eSATA cable. That would probably be the ideal solution, in fact. Since you need to keep it running 24/7, it really doesn't matter where it is.

I'd attach a couple of pictures if I could figure out how to get "image shack" loaded on my computer. :o

redjr

11-30-06, 04:59 PM

Can an external drive be set up in a room in the floor below where my STB is?
I’m talking about a total distance of no more than 8 feet from the STB to the external HD. My thinking is that this would eliminate any noise problems as archiguy mentioned and also keep it away from any unfortunate accidents as Manatus experienced.

TIA
I'm not sure, but I think the max length on a shielded eSATA cable is about 3 meters. It might do 8', but still iffy. There might be some 'industrial' strength eSATA cables that would go further - but maybe not worth the added expense.

pepar

11-30-06, 07:09 PM

cuzzin

11-30-06, 11:50 PM

OK, so I have been looking for an answer to resolve a problem I was having with my SATA drive and I'm coming to the conclusion that there is no solution. To repeat, the problem was that during recording, I would get occasional picture distortion throughout (such as macro-blocking). This would occur not only during playback, but WHILE a program was actually recording live. I've tried many workarounds, hoping I would not have to sacrifice all my recordings on my external drive, but it seems that I have exhausted every possible angle. Tonight for the first time, I unplugged my SATA drive from the 8300HD, reset the box, and recorded an HD program to the internal drive; the recording was absolutely PERFECT, just as it always used to be before the addition of the external drive. Now that there is no doubt in my mind that the SATA drive was the problem, I am going to just break down and buy another SATA drive. This is where I need help. I need to know if there's anyone on here who has found a drive/enclosure combination that records just as flawlessly as the internal drive of the 8300HD does. I'm talking about NO picture glitches, digital breakup, macro-blocking, whatever. I know this kind of thing is common SOME TIMES, but it should definitely not happen as often as it did when I had my external drive. The type of SATA drive I had was a Seagate 500GB drive (7200 RPM, 16 MB Cache) and a Coolmax USB/SATA enclosure. I have heard often times around here that a drive over 300 GB or so can cause the kind of picture breakup I was experiencing. Is there any truth to this? I've also heard some of the Western Digital SATA drives seem to work well, but all this I still need confirmation of by someone here. Also, the Seagate drive I had was NOISY as HELL. I swear, especially like in scenes of a movie where it's quiet, that freaking drive made so much noise. So I guess that was two problems I had: a noisy drive and those "hiccups" in the picture. For reference, my 8300HD is a SARA, version 1.88.22.1 ( as seen in my signature). So again, anyone on here who has found a drive/enclosure combo that works completely glitch-free, I'd be more than appreciative if you could point me in the direction of where I might find one. Thanks in advance for helping me end my frustration.

redjr

12-01-06, 01:07 AM

Meteor

12-01-06, 01:58 AM

So again, anyone on here who has found a drive/enclosure combo that works completely glitch-free, I'd be more than appreciative if you could point me in the direction of where I might find one. Thanks in advance for helping me end my frustration.

Try Western Digital, I've been running the 320gb and 500gb 16mb cache versions for two months and they are absolutely glitch free even at full capacity.
Give any of this drives a try :
500gb drive free shipping and less than 30cents per gig.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136003
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136014
I experimented using Coolmax, Vantec and Sabrent I don't noticed any difference in performance maybe in cooling but these drives run very cool and quiet.

cuzzin

12-01-06, 02:04 AM

I haven't done a lot of recording per se, but I noticed a glitch every now and then without the SATA drive attached. I personally don't think HD recording has been perfected yet!

I do know, that at least in my 8300HD box is a WD 160GB 7200 SE drive. So, TWC in Upstate, NY uses SA boxes configured with WD drives. I don't think the SE line of drives is optimized for video streaming either. I'm seriously looking at the WD 500GB 7200 SE SATA drive to put in my Apricorn enclosure. Seems to be a safe bet.
Ok, so the 8300HDs themselves use Western Digital drives? If thats the case, WD should be a safe bet, right? And yeah, I know a glitches do pop up on rare occasions, but they were all over the place with my Seagate drive. As far as the WD drives go, is there any particular type you should look for or would any WD SATA drive do?

cuzzin

12-01-06, 02:07 AM

Try Western Digital, I've been running the 320gb and 500gb 16mb cache versions for two months and they are absolutely glitch free even at full capacity.
Give any of this drives a try :
500gb drive free shipping and less than 30cents per gig.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136003
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136014
I experimented using Coolmax, Vantec and Sabrent I don't noticed any difference in performance maybe in cooling but these drives run very cool and quiet.
Thanks for the reccomendation. So the WD drives seem to be the way to go from what I'm reading around here. I believe I might be able to drop by my BestBuy store and pick one up. There is no special type of WD SATA drive I need to be looking for right? As long as it is a Western Digital SATA, will I be all set? I'll probably give the 500 GB a shot.

richecker

12-01-06, 04:50 AM

Please forgive me if this has already been covered in this thread. Yes I tried a search and got frustrated sifting through a lot of pages only not to find my answer. Maybe its here, I dont know.

Anyways, are you able to take the external drive and connect it to a computer and watch content from the computer instead of the 8300? Are you able to move files on that hard drive? Can you take the recorded programs and move them onto another drive on your computer or are you only able to delete them?

All I got when surfing this thread was the mention that the content can only be deleted. I am looking for confirmation on this and the other questions so any help is greatly appreciated.

archiguy

12-01-06, 07:21 AM

Thanks for the reccomendation. So the WD drives seem to be the way to go from what I'm reading around here. I believe I might be able to drop by my BestBuy store and pick one up. There is no special type of WD SATA drive I need to be looking for right? As long as it is a Western Digital SATA, will I be all set? I'll probably give the 500 GB a shot.

I don't think it's the drive that's the problem. You're on SARA; that's the problem. That software package doesn't seem to handle big drives as well as Passport - that's what I've gleaned from this thread. Passport seems to be much more "forgiving".

If you're on SARA, the smart money says to stay with smaller drives "optimized for streaming video". Anything else seems to lead to problems.

archiguy

12-01-06, 07:27 AM

Anyways, are you able to take the external drive and connect it to a computer and watch content from the computer instead of the 8300? Are you able to move files on that hard drive? Can you take the recorded programs and move them onto another drive on your computer or are you only able to delete them?

The external drives seem to be locked into the specific DVR that formats them. They can't be moved to another DVR, nor can they be attached to a computer. Thus, the files on the external drive are accessible only by the DVR that originally recorded them.

However, some smart guy ought to be able to crack the code and remove those restrictions; it's just computer code, after all. ;)

Manatus

12-01-06, 07:33 AM

pepar

12-01-06, 08:49 AM

pepar

12-01-06, 08:53 AM

Programs recorded on an external drive connected to a SA8300HD can be viewed only on the DVR that recorded them, not even on any other 8300HD and not on any computer. Search this and related threads for "encryption" and "file system" for lots of info on these topics.
A computer won't even see the data on the drive; it will appear unformatted. Try using the search function and narrowing your search criteria; this has been covered many times.

davehancock

12-01-06, 11:20 AM

I do know, that at least in my 8300HD box is a WD 160GB 7200 SE drive. So, TWC in Upstate, NY uses SA boxes configured with WD drives.

It's not that TWC in Upstate, NY uses WD drives, it's that currently this is the drive that SA uses for ALL boxes. However, ALL cable companies do recycle their boxes, so you will never know what drive will be in the box that you get - UNLESS you absolutely INSIST on a new box. If you do, you will likely get one with a WD drive - but who knows about next month? They might change at any time.

Statements about matching WD drives to WD drives and Maxtor drives to Maxtor drives really appear to be conjecture at this point.

While talking about conjecture, let me reiterate some past conjecture, that may be relevent (and may not).
1) External drives that work best have NO error correction.
2) The enclosures that work best have NO internal circuitry (you do not want any circuitry between the drive and your 8300. This implies that those enclosures with an interface that provides both eSATA and USB out are more likely to have problems.
3) For SARA: external drives larger than 300GB may be prone to problems when the drive gets full.
4) The "Ready Made" drives (Maxtor Quickview Expander, and the Western Digital WDXS2500JS) appear to have the highest success rates

Sure, there examples in this forum that appear to disprove the above, but then the degree of tolerance for "stuttering" varies too. So what is acceptable for one person is not acceptable for another.

I also note that lately the "ready made" solutions are in short supply: The WD site indicates that they are "out of stock" and previous sources for the Maxtor "Quickview Expander" no longer have them in stock. I did note that WeaKnees listed these (Maxtor) as being "In Stock" a couple of days ago

pepar

12-01-06, 11:38 AM

I also note that lately the "ready made" solutions are in short supply: The WD site indicates that they are "out of stock" and previous sources for the Maxtor "Quickview Expander" no longer have them in stock. I did note that WeaKnees listed these (Maxtor) as being "In Stock" a couple of days ago
In the process recently of replying to inquiries about the Quickview Expander, I also found them to be difficult to find. The standard price search engines yielded no hits when using "quickview expander." Using the model number (J08M300) produced better results, and "googling" either produced results. But they do seem to be rare.

Someone mentioned that there was a 5400RPM ATA100 drive inside the Expander. the datasheet PDF says it support transfer speeds of 1200 Mbps which, more or less, confirms that. As such, it would seem that the drive is nothing special and not even an SATA150 part. With a "simple" enclosure and one of their Quickview family drives, one should be able to yield a better product.

RaveD

12-01-06, 11:53 AM

Statements about matching WD drives to WD drives and Maxtor drives to Maxtor drives really appear to be conjecture at this point.
I agree. I'm using a Maxtor external with a WD internal and finally I am getting very good performance with no glitches.

1) External drives that work best have NO error correction.

I don't know of any such drives other than those that use advanced SATA features that are not available in the 8300.

2) The enclosures that work best have NO internal circuitry (you do not want any circuitry between the drive and your 8300. This implies that those enclosures with an interface that provides both eSATA and USB out are more likely to have problems.

I think there is something to this, but it is not necessarily related to whether the enclosure supports USB. I believe it is very important to have as direct a SATA connection as possible between the drive and the 8300. Enclosures that rely on ribbon connectors, internal cabling, or SATA to eSATA adapters may be more prone to problems.

I will add one more item of conjecture: an enclosure that uses an eSATA connector, rather than a SATA connector, might provide better results. This is consistent with the fact that the "ready made" solutions appear to be more reliable. SATA was never designed for external use; eSATA is.

In my own personal experience, I had very painful results with an ePower enclosure using a SATA-to-eSATA cable. Switching to a Rosewill with an eSATA-to-eSATA cable has eliminated all of my problems and I am now glitch-free, using the same drive.

davehancock

12-01-06, 12:00 PM

In my own personal experience, I had very painful results with an ePower enclosure using a SATA-to-eSATA cable.And yet, I have excellent results with an (Ugly) ePower enclosure using SATA > eSATA cable on a 250GB Maxtor (no error correction) drive. :rolleyes: Lots of variables.

cuzzin

12-01-06, 01:52 PM

I don't think it's the drive that's the problem. You're on SARA; that's the problem. That software package doesn't seem to handle big drives as well as Passport - that's what I've gleaned from this thread. Passport seems to be much more "forgiving".

If you're on SARA, the smart money says to stay with smaller drives "optimized for streaming video". Anything else seems to lead to problems.
I have no problem getting a smaller drive. How much smaller are we talking, about 300 GB? Also, what do I look for in a SATA drive to know that it's "optimized for streaming video"? Is that actually written on the box?

archiguy

12-01-06, 02:01 PM

I have no problem getting a smaller drive. How much smaller are we talking, about 300 GB? Also, what do I look for in a SATA drive to know that it's "optimized for streaming video"? Is that actually written on the box?

Yes, I think that's about the upper limit for SARA folks to be safe, from what I've read here. And Maxtor and WD both have a line of drives that are made for streaming video, like the "Quickview" line pepar referenced a few posts back. Those drives are not meant for use in computers, however, which is kinda' weird. Don't know what that's all about...

BobKat6

12-01-06, 03:09 PM

Ok, so the 8300HDs themselves use Western Digital drives? If thats the case, WD should be a safe bet, right? And yeah, I know a glitches do pop up on rare occasions, but they were all over the place with my Seagate drive. As far as the WD drives go, is there any particular type you should look for or would any WD SATA drive do?

The internal drive in my 8300HD is a Maxtor. I've also used two Maxtor drives(250G and 500G) in two different enclosures with only the occasional hiccup common to SARA (v1.88.22.1). My 500G is at 41% of capacity and so far I am happy with it. Neither drive is a Quickview Expander and I saw no mention of "streaming video" in the ads or documentation.

GregLee

12-01-06, 05:21 PM

The standard price search engines yielded no hits when using "quickview expander."
Try "Qv Expander". I get 2020 hits.

redjr

12-01-06, 05:26 PM

It's not that TWC in Upstate, NY uses WD drives, it's that currently this is the drive that SA uses for ALL boxes. However, ALL cable companies do recycle their boxes, so you will never know what drive will be in the box that you get - UNLESS you absolutely INSIST on a new box. If you do, you will likely get one with a WD drive - but who knows about next month? They might change at any time.

Statements about matching WD drives to WD drives and Maxtor drives to Maxtor drives really appear to be conjecture at this point.

While talking about conjecture, let me reiterate some past conjecture, that may be relevent (and may not).
1) External drives that work best have NO error correction.
2) The enclosures that work best have NO internal circuitry (you do not want any circuitry between the drive and your 8300. This implies that those enclosures with an interface that provides both eSATA and USB out are more likely to have problems.
3) For SARA: external drives larger than 300GB may be prone to problems when the drive gets full.
4) The "Ready Made" drives (Maxtor Quickview Expander, and the Western Digital WDXS2500JS) appear to have the highest success rates

Sure, there examples in this forum that appear to disprove the above, but then the degree of tolerance for "stuttering" varies too. So what is acceptable for one person is not acceptable for another.

I also note that lately the "ready made" solutions are in short supply: The WD site indicates that they are "out of stock" and previous sources for the Maxtor "Quickview Expander" no longer have them in stock. I did note that WeaKnees listed these (Maxtor) as being "In Stock" a couple of days ago
That's why I said, "at least in my 8300HD..". I did not want to be too presumptuous on what SA uses, and/or whether or not the drive brand is spec'd by the cableco. :)

davehancock

12-01-06, 05:36 PM

That's why I said, "at least in my 8300HD..". I did not want to be too presumptuous on what SA uses, and/or whether or not the drive brand is spec'd by the cableco. :)
I just wanted to make the point that the consumer has no control over which drive he/she would receive and that it is not a cable company decision either (there are not separate pn's that cable companies can order for drive brand). I'm in Upstate too (probably further "up" than you) and I have a SA8300 with a Maxtor drive from TW.

davehancock

12-01-06, 05:58 PM

Try "Qv Expander". I get 2020 hits.I got 17,100 hits with Qv Expander, but most of them are "out of stock" or otherwise unavailable.

pepar

12-01-06, 11:13 PM

I got 17,100 hits with Qv Expander, but most of them are "out of stock" or otherwise unavailable.
You read "most of" 17k hits? :eek:

cuzzin

12-02-06, 01:42 AM

Ken in OH

12-02-06, 02:20 AM

I have been using these forums as a reference before I bought my drive and enclosure. I have Passport Echo 2.5.066 on Time Warner in Kent, OH.

Before I connected my external I had great HD live TV and recording on my internal drive. I might get 1 or 2 brief artifacts per hour. Now with the external drive I get about one dozen bad artifacts every 5 minutes.

I noticed that I have the same Passport version and 8300HD that Pepar has. That makes me think it would be my hard drive or enclosure giving me the macroblocking (unless it had something to do with me being on TimeWarner). Manatus had a similar hard drive and similar external case as mine and it sounded like there were no problems with that (before the power button thing... sorry to hear that).

This is the hard drive and enclosure I have:
Seagate Barracuda ST3400620AS 400GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
AMS Venus DS3 DS-2316SU2SBK (enclosure)

Two recommendations I saw was to use a hard drive without Error Correction and to use an enclosure that does not have extra circuitry like mine has. Does anyone know of a "dumb" cheap hard drive enclosure? I'd like to re-use my hard drive if I can determine it's not the source of the problem.

Does anyone have an external drive connected to the 8300HD with Passport Echo 2.5.066 on Time Warner that works flawlessly for them??? What are the components in your system? Thanks! :)

Scarlett

12-02-06, 04:19 AM

I have a quick question here. As I have been looking for another enclosure/drive combo, I am thinking of going with a WD 500 GB ( http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Internal-WD5000KSRTL/dp/B000FBSREK/sr=8-9/qid=1160440004/ref=sr_1_9/102-1503791-0146525?ie=UTF8&s=electronics) and an Azio enclosure (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=104205). My question here is, once I format my new drive to my 8300HD, will my old one be of any use? Will I be able to plug that one in and watch what is one that drive, or will that drive be no good after formatting a new drive to the 8300HD? Also, I'm hearing there are certain types of WD drives that work better for streaming video; is the one above a good drive for that purpose? If not, what exactly do I need to look for in a SATA drive to know it's good for streaming video?That's not the WD drive that you want if you are trying to get one without error correction, i.e., optimized for streaming video. You want a "CE Series" in a WD drive for that. I don't have a model number for the WD drive, but the equivalent Seagate drive is Model ST3500841SCE from its DB35 Series. That's the one I am going to buy just as soon as I find one for less than $300. Right now, the only place I have found that has one in stock is CDW, and their prices are always too high--which probably is the reason they have one in stock. :) I have found several places that have the 400GB Seagate DB35 models, but I'm holding out for the 500GB just as soon as I know that the external SATA drive will still be an option after TW switches to Navigator.

Also, based on xnappo's reported experience with the Azio enclosure, I don't think I would go with that either. The Apricorn external SATA enclosure has been a solid performer for me. I highly recommend it, and I believe that's the one that xnappo finally settled on as well.

As to your question about whether your old external drive will work with your 8300 after you have formatted another one, I do have personal experience with that. If you do not erase from the Recorded List on your internal drive those programs that are stored on your original external drive before you format the new drive, if you then later reconnect your old original external drive, those programs will still be available for you to play from the Recorded List. Your "Recording Space Used" will always report more programs than you actually have available to you after the new external drive is connected, because it will be counting every program on the Recorded List, some of which are still on the original external drive. If you try to play those programs while your new external drive is connected, you won't be able to, obviously, because they are on your original drive that has been removed. But, when you reconnect your old external drive, you will not have to format it, because it is already formatted to work with the internal drive in the 8300, and you should then be able to play any program on it that is still shown on the internal drive's Recorded List of programs. At least that's the way it worked for me! I didn't expect it to, but I hoped it would, and I was pleasantly surprised when it did. I assume it will work that way for you, too. With SARA there are no guarantees, so be prepared for the worst in the event the worst happens. :)

Scarlett

Scarlett

12-02-06, 04:33 AM

I got 17,100 hits with Qv Expander, but most of them are "out of stock" or otherwise unavailable.I got the same result from every source I checked. Don't you imagine it's because Seagate bought Maxtor and has now replaced the QuickView series with its own DB35 series which is optimized for use with DVRs? Those also are difficult to find--at least in the 500GB and 750GB capacities. Weaknees carries them, and CDW has them in stock, but they are too expensive from those sources.

I'm still limping along with my old 300GB Seagate, but the recordings are flawless! The sound you hear is me knocking on wood. :)

Scarlett

pepar

12-02-06, 08:46 AM

I got the same result from every source I checked. Don't you imagine it's because Seagate bought Maxtor and has now replaced the QuickView series with its own DB35 series which is optimized for use with DVRs? Those also are difficult to find--at least in the 500GB and 750GB capacities. Weaknees carries them, and CDW has them in stock, but they are too expensive from those sources.

I'm still limping along with my old 300GB Seagate, but the recordings are flawless! The sound you hear is me knocking on wood. :)

Scarlett
When the QV Expander debuted, there was a big splash about TWC ordering (http://www.shareholder.com/maxtor/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=151856&reltype=Product&maxtor_section=press) them so they could offer "external storage options to its digital video recorders (DVR) subscribers in select locations." We never were able to confirm they ever took possession, and never heard from anyone who received one. As we now know that cable providers essentially want NO PART of external drives, I speculate that the one-sy/two-sy nature of subscribers buying their own is not enough to sustain the QV Expander. Heck, the ones that "we" have been buying may have been from the first production run, and maybe included the lot ordered by TWC, whom I suspect canceled their order. (HAH! No press release for THAT event.)

archiguy

12-02-06, 08:49 AM

Does anyone have an external drive connected to the 8300HD with Passport Echo 2.5.066 on Time Warner that works flawlessly for them??? What are the components in your system? Thanks! :)

Did you not read any of my posts in the last few days? Just read back a couple of pages. I've had no problems with my setup using a WD SE16 500GB drive with Apricorn enclosure.

pepar

12-02-06, 10:31 AM

Did you not read any of my posts in the last few days?
Why would anyone do that when they can just pop in, ask and get an answer? :rolleyes:

xnappo

12-02-06, 10:39 AM

pepar

12-02-06, 10:49 AM

All,
I will say again that this Passport/Sara stuff is really annoying, I know I myself just replied to a Passport user with Sara-based information! I really think we should do what I mentioned in post 3155? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8897521&&#post8897521)

We've already discussed that and, I believe, the consensus was that changing this late in the game would cause more confusion than it would alleviate. Most new posters haven't a clue that they HAVE software, much less know which one and what version.

xnappo

12-02-06, 10:51 AM

We've already discussed that and, I believe, the consensus was that changing this late in the game would cause more confusion than it would alleviate. Most new posters haven't a clue that they HAVE software, much less know which one and what version.

It was discussed, but not with the solution I provided. I would like to reopen the discussion. The master post and the end of the legacy thread once locked (this thread) can tell users how to determine the version and point them to the correct thread.

Regards,
xnappo

pepar

12-02-06, 11:00 AM

It was discussed, but not with the solution I provided. I would like to reopen the discussion. The master post and the end of the legacy thread once locked (this thread) can tell users how to determine the version and point them to the correct thread.

Regards,
xnappo
I am categorically opposed to closing this thread for the EXACT reason stated in my previous post. People don't read past posts in this thread, not even the post just above their new post. It's bad now, but I think it would be worse if we followed your suggestion.

xnappo

12-02-06, 11:49 AM

I am categorically opposed to closing this thread for the EXACT reason stated in my previous post. People don't read past posts in this thread, not even the post just above their new post. It's bad now, but I think it would be worse if we followed your suggestion.

This is not a problem with the general 8300 threads (passport and sara) and the users considering adding a SATA drive are likely *more* advanced than the typical user...

xnappo

davehancock

12-02-06, 12:02 PM

When the QV Expander debuted, there was a big splash about TWC ordering (http://www.shareholder.com/maxtor/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=151856&reltype=Product&maxtor_section=press) them so they could offer "external storage options to its digital video recorders (DVR) subscribers in select locations." We never were able to confirm they ever took possession, and never heard from anyone who received one. As we now know that cable providers essentially want NO PART of external drives, I speculate that the one-sy/two-sy nature of subscribers buying their own is not enough to sustain the QV Expander. Heck, the ones that "we" have been buying may have been from the first production run, and maybe included the lot ordered by TWC, whom I suspect canceled their order. (HAH! No press release for THAT event.)EXACTLY!! :p

My point is that the supply of these "ready built" drives is apparently drying up - get them while you can!!

pepar

12-02-06, 02:06 PM

This is not a problem with the general 8300 threads (passport and sara) and the users considering adding a SATA drive are likely *more* advanced than the typical user...
You'd think, perhaps, that that might be the case . . . :)

cuzzin

12-02-06, 06:57 PM

cuzzin and Ken in OH,

If you read back 10-20 pages you will see my experience with Seagate 7200.10 drives and AZIO enclosures.

I only achieved success once I switched to a Apricorn enclosure AND a Maxtor 300GB drive. By success I mean I get no more glitches on the external drive than on the internal drive (pretty much 0).

Scarlett has also had nothing but trouble with the Seagate 7200.10 (400GB version).

So basically, at least for SARA - stay away from Seagate 7200.10 and stay away from AZIO enclosures.

All,
I will say again that this Passport/Sara stuff is really annoying, I know I myself just replied to a Passport user with Sara-based information! I really think we should do what I mentioned in post 3155? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8897521&&#post8897521)

xnappo
What makes you think the Azio enclosure is faulty? Did you try your Maxtor drive in that enclosure at all? I wish I knew this before buying the Azio (at the recommendation of another on this board), but I'll have no problem buying the Apricorn if it's guaranteed to work. So these "ready-made" drives, like the Maxtor Quickview Expander, are they found on any given electronics site or is there a specific online shop I should visit? I've read many others on here, such as archiguy, have had no problems with a WD SE16 drive, which is what I had my eye one. Are those not really sucessful among users? I really do not want to have to keep spending hundreds of dollars going through drive after drive until I find one that actually works. I am thinking of just going with your advice and buying an Apricorn enclosure with a Maxtor Quickview 500GB drive, as it seems to be the only sure thing, since these drives are manufactured for the purpose of streaming video. I just wasted about $40 on an Azio that I'm waiting on in the mail, but I'll live with that I guess. Now if you could be so good as to point me to a site that sells a Maxtor Quickview and/or Apricorn enclosure, I'd appreciate it.

xnappo

12-02-06, 07:33 PM

What makes you think the Azio enclosure is faulty? Did you try your Maxtor drive in that enclosure at all?

Absolutely I did. I tried the AZIO with a Seagate 7200.10 and my Maxtor and neither worked. I tried the Maxtor with the Apricorn case and it worked. The Apricorn actually *does* have USB as well - only thing I can figure is that the USB chip in the AZIO case was interfering somehow. Since Scarlett had problem with the Apricorn case and Seagate 7200.10, I didn't bother trying.

I feel your pain with spending money to find a good combination, I spent $140 myself! Luckily I needed the extra space on my computer anyway and plan to use the AZIO case and seagate drive on the computer...

Regards,
xnappo

cuzzin

12-02-06, 07:39 PM

That's not the WD drive that you want if you are trying to get one without error correction, i.e., optimized for streaming video. You want a "CE Series" in a WD drive for that. I don't have a model number for the WD drive, but the equivalent Seagate drive is Model ST3500841SCE from its DB35 Series. That's the one I am going to buy just as soon as I find one for less than $300. Right now, the only place I have found that has one in stock is CDW, and their prices are always too high--which probably is the reason they have one in stock. :) I have found several places that have the 400GB Seagate DB35 models, but I'm holding out for the 500GB just as soon as I know that the external SATA drive will still be an option after TW switches to Navigator.

Also, based on xnappo's reported experience with the Azio enclosure, I don't think I would go with that either. The Apricorn external SATA enclosure has been a solid performer for me. I highly recommend it, and I believe that's the one that xnappo finally settled on as well.

As to your question about whether your old external drive will work with your 8300 after you have formatted another one, I do have personal experience with that. If you do not erase from the Recorded List on your internal drive those programs that are stored on your original external drive before you format the new drive, if you then later reconnect your old original external drive, those programs will still be available for you to play from the Recorded List. Your "Recording Space Used" will always report more programs than you actually have available to you after the new external drive is connected, because it will be counting every program on the Recorded List, some of which are still on the original external drive. If you try to play those programs while your new external drive is connected, you won't be able to, obviously, because they are on your original drive that has been removed. But, when you reconnect your old external drive, you will not have to format it, because it is already formatted to work with the internal drive in the 8300, and you should then be able to play any program on it that is still shown on the internal drive's Recorded List of programs. At least that's the way it worked for me! I didn't expect it to, but I hoped it would, and I was pleasantly surprised when it did. I assume it will work that way for you, too. With SARA there are no guarantees, so be prepared for the worst in the event the worst happens. :)

Scarlett
Thanks for all the info. I am probably going to go ahead and buy me one of those Apricorn enclosures, so I guess I'll have no use for my Azio when it comes in. Wish I'd have waited. As far as what drive I'm buying I was leaning toward the Western Digital drives, but I think I might be leaning towards the Maxtor Quickview drives, as they seem to be the more popular ones around here. I will not buy another Seagate drive, as that was what I've been using and it was noisy as hell. I looked on that cdw site you mentioned and they do have the Maxtor QV drive in stock for a little over $300. Not exactly cheap, but if it's guaranteed to work I might go ahead and get it if I can't find one cheaper.
As far as being able to play video from my previous SATA drive, you said my recording space used will report more programs than I actually have available; you mean the number of recordings will be shown as higher than my new drive has, right? Or do you mean that my old recordings will be taking up space? Appreciate your help again.

cuzzin

12-02-06, 07:45 PM

Absolutely I did. I tried the AZIO with a Seagate 7200.10 and my Maxtor and neither worked. I tried the Maxtor with the Apricorn case and it worked. The Apricorn actually *does* have USB as well - only thing I can figure is that the USB chip in the AZIO case was interfering somehow. Since Scarlett had problem with the Apricorn case and Seagate 7200.10, I didn't bother trying.

I feel your pain with spending money to find a good combination, I spent $140 myself! Luckily I needed the extra space on my computer anyway and plan to use the AZIO case and seagate drive on the computer...

Regards,
xnappo
Good thinking on adding the drive to the computer; I might do that as well. I found this site CDW.com that seems to have some Maxtor QV drives (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=951546); would this be a good site to buy one from? I also saw this Apricorn SATA enclosure (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=996431). Are these the two I should be looking for? Thanks.

Scarlett

12-02-06, 08:27 PM

Thanks for all the info. I am probably going to go ahead and buy me one of those Apricorn enclosures, so I guess I'll have no use for my Azio when it comes in. Wish I'd have waited. As far as what drive I'm buying I was leaning toward the Western Digital drives, but I think I might be leaning towards the Maxtor Quickview drives, as they seem to be the more popular ones around here. I will not buy another Seagate drive, as that was what I've been using and it was noisy as hell. I looked on that cdw site you mentioned and they do have the Maxtor QV drive in stock for a little over $300. Not exactly cheap, but if it's guaranteed to work I might go ahead and get it if I can't find one cheaper.
As far as being able to play video from my previous SATA drive, you said my recording space used will report more programs than I actually have available; you mean the number of recordings will be shown as higher than my new drive has, right? Or do you mean that my old recordings will be taking up space? Appreciate your help again.Here is where you can buy the Apricorn enclosure--it is SATA only, not the combo SATA/USB that xnappo ordered when the SATA only was not available:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817362002

I also found a Maxtor QuickView 500GB SATA drive for a better price than CDW offers (257.99, I think):

http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A3400147&cmp=OTC-fr00g13

I have no experience with Club IT, but Newegg is stellar.

In response to your query about Archiguy's experience with the WD 500GB drive and Azio enclosure, he is on Passport, and you are on SARA if I'm not mistaken. Oddly enough, whatever differences there are in the two platforms does seem to have a bearing on what works and what doesn't work for each, and they are not always the same.

So far as the space consumed by recordings on your disconnected drive goes, the only space that will be used is on the internal drive, and that will be limited to however much space is required for storing the information about where to find the specific programs on the original external hard drive--it's just an index that points to the recording's location. I don't know how much space is needed for that information, but I would doubt that there would be sufficient space to keep track of say a full 300GB of recordings on a disconnected drive as well as all of the recordings for a full 500GB drive that is connected. And I did mean that the number of recordings will be shown as higher than your new drive has, not that the actual recordings on your old drive would be consuming any space on either the internal drive or your new external drive. I can't remember if the recording space used was being reported as higher than actually consumed, but I didn't save a completely full hard drive--just a few select programs that I really didn't want to lose. As others have said, this software is limited, and the external drive feature is not intended for archiving, but for time-shifting. We just try different "experiments" with it and then report our results. There are no guarantees! Everything is based on trial and error, and what works for one will not necessarily work for others. You "pay your money and take your chances" and it does get expensive, so you need to proceed cautiously and at your own risk. I will say that the exhilaration experienced when successful has been worth all the frustration and aggravation to achieve it--at least to me!

I know that you are using SARA, but I can't remember whether your provider is Time Warner. Before investing too heavily, if you are a TW customer, you might want to try to find out if we are going to lose the external SATA drive option when TW converts to Navigator (Mystro) next year. I have requested that information from my local TW provider, and when I get an answer, I will post it here.

Good luck!

Scarlett

Scarlett

12-02-06, 08:34 PM

Good thinking on adding the drive to the computer; I might do that as well. I found this site CDW.com that seems to have some Maxtor QV drives (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=951546); would this be a good site to buy one from? I also saw this Apricorn SATA enclosure (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=996431). Are these the two I should be looking for? Thanks.Yes, those are the products. However, you will save money buying them at the two dealers I listed in my previous post. :-) I have done business with CDW in the past, and they are quite reputable. Also, they price-matched for me. If you call them with the information about the lower prices at Newegg and Club IT, they might match those prices or even lower theirs by some percentage. It's certainly worth a try, if only to get both items from the same source.

Scarlett

cuzzin

12-02-06, 09:27 PM

Here is where you can buy the Apricorn enclosure--it is SATA only, not the combo SATA/USB that xnappo ordered when the SATA only was not available:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817362002

I also found a Maxtor QuickView 500GB SATA drive for a better price than CDW offers (257.99, I think):

http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A3400147&cmp=OTC-fr00g13

I have no experience with Club IT, but Newegg is stellar.

In response to your query about Archiguy's experience with the WD 500GB drive and Azio enclosure, he is on Passport, and you are on SARA if I'm not mistaken. Oddly enough, whatever differences there are in the two platforms does seem to have a bearing on what works and what doesn't work for each, and they are not always the same.

So far as the space consumed by recordings on your disconnected drive goes, the only space that will be used is on the internal drive, and that will be limited to however much space is required for storing the information about where to find the specific programs on the original external hard drive--it's just an index that points to the recording's location. I don't know how much space is needed for that information, but I would doubt that there would be sufficient space to keep track of say a full 300GB of recordings on a disconnected drive as well as all of the recordings for a full 500GB drive that is connected. And I did mean that the number of recordings will be shown as higher than your new drive has, not that the actual recordings on your old drive would be consuming any space on either the internal drive or your new external drive. I can't remember if the recording space used was being reported as higher than actually consumed, but I didn't save a completely full hard drive--just a few select programs that I really didn't want to lose. As others have said, this software is limited, and the external drive feature is not intended for archiving, but for time-shifting. We just try different "experiments" with it and then report our results. There are no guarantees! Everything is based on trial and error, and what works for one will not necessarily work for others. You "pay your money and take your chances" and it does get expensive, so you need to proceed cautiously and at your own risk. I will say that the exhilaration experienced when successful has been worth all the frustration and aggravation to achieve it--at least to me!

I know that you are using SARA, but I can't remember whether your provider is Time Warner. Before investing too heavily, if you are a TW customer, you might want to try to find out if we are going to lose the external SATA drive option when TW converts to Navigator (Mystro) next year. I have requested that information from my local TW provider, and when I get an answer, I will post it here.

Good luck!

Scarlett
Thanks. I just ordered the Apricot enclosure, but will have to wait on the Quickview drive until I can make a bank deposit. If I actually get this going succesfully, it'll be in large part thanks to you. People like you make this forum what it is. Thanks.

xnappo

12-02-06, 10:18 PM

Here is where you can buy the Apricorn enclosure--it is SATA only, not the combo SATA/USB that xnappo ordered when the SATA only was not available:
Scarlett

Actually this is the one I ordered, even though NewEgg says it is SATA only, when it arrived it was combo SATA/USB.

xnappo

DoubleDAZ

12-03-06, 12:30 AM

.............I wish I knew this before buying the Azio (at the recommendation of another on this board............That's part of the problem with this thread. The info you used might have come from someone using different software (Passport or SARA) and therefore was inaccurate. I believe it's also been shown though that what works for one may not work for others with the same software. I see Passport users having problems and I see SARA users having problems. SARA may appear to have more, but they've had the capability longer. I thought someone using a 750G drive was using SARA, but I could be mistaken.

IMHO, it just shows that SATA may not be ready for primetime do-it-yourselfers. vegggas has had success with the QVE ready-to-use units, but I suspect he deals only (mostly?) with SARA users and 300G drives. It also seems that the folks having the least success are buying units from wherever they get the cheapest price, etc. When someone says they use Passport and bought unit X from supplier Y, it would seem that combination should then work for everyone with the same software, etc. However, folks go elsewhere, buy the same drive but a different case or the same case but a different drive, and then wonder why it doesn't work. Others don't know enough the make sure their signal levels are up to par and still others don't plug the cables in tight enough. If I were a cableco, I don't think I'd support this stuff yet either. :)

BobKat6

12-03-06, 01:05 AM

..........if it's guaranteed to work...........

So these "ready-made" drives, are they found on any given electronics site or is there a specific online shop I should visit?

I really do not want to have to keep spending hundreds of dollars going through drive after drive until I find one that actually works.

.........it seems to be the only sure thing.............

If you want a guaranteed, sure thing...this was posted 10/10/2006:

http://discountechnology.com/8300HD-eSATA-Hard-Drive-for-Scientific-Atlanta-8300HD-DVR-250GB?sc=2&category=22

160, 250, 300, and 500gig are available here. My drive turned out to be a Maxtor.

_________________________
SA8300HD SARA v 1.88.22.1

cuzzin

12-03-06, 01:50 AM

Actually this is the one I ordered, even though NewEgg says it is SATA only, when it arrived it was combo SATA/USB.

xnappo
Well as long as you're not having problems with it I guess I'm still OK.

cuzzin

12-03-06, 01:54 AM

If you want a guaranteed, sure thing...this was posted 10/10/2006:

http://discountechnology.com/8300HD-eSATA-Hard-Drive-for-Scientific-Atlanta-8300HD-DVR-250GB?sc=2&category=22

160, 250, 300, and 500gig are available here. My drive turned out to be a Maxtor.

_________________________
SA8300HD SARA v 1.88.22.1
That site says that what makes it's product so much better is that it uses 7200RPM compared to Maxtor's "5400RPM," but the Maxtor drive I plan to buy (http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A3400147&cmp=OTC-fr00g13) does use 7200RPM. Seeing as how the external drive on that site is supposedly made just for the 8300HD, why don't more people buy or recommend that one?

cuzzin

12-03-06, 02:09 AM

That's part of the problem with this thread. The info you used might have come from someone using different software (Passport or SARA) and therefore was inaccurate. I believe it's also been shown though that what works for one may not work for others with the same software. I see Passport users having problems and I see SARA users having problems. SARA may appear to have more, but they've had the capability longer. I thought someone using a 750G drive was using SARA, but I could be mistaken.

IMHO, it just shows that SATA may not be ready for primetime do-it-yourselfers. vegggas has had success with the QVE ready-to-use units, but I suspect he deals only (mostly?) with SARA users and 300G drives. It also seems that the folks having the least success are buying units from wherever they get the cheapest price, etc. When someone says they use Passport and bought unit X from supplier Y, it would seem that combination should then work for everyone with the same software, etc. However, folks go elsewhere, buy the same drive but a different case or the same case but a different drive, and then wonder why it doesn't work. Others don't know enough the make sure their signal levels are up to par and still others don't plug the cables in tight enough. If I were a cableco, I don't think I'd support this stuff yet either. :)
As far as the signal issue goes, I thought I had my problem solved when I suspected that a signal issue was the problem, but a tech came to my house and messed around with my connections, increasing my signal strength substantially; I did not get any improvement in picture. I recently unplugged my external drive and all the glitches that were appearing in the picture dissappeared, so it was clearly an issue with the SATA drive, as I originally suspected. You mention vegggas has success because he only deals with SARA users and 300GB drives; I am a SARA user, but the drive I was planning on getting is a 500GB. Do you find 300GB work better or something? And I'm not cheaping out on the drive; I'm getting the exact enclosure (Apricorn) and Maxtor QV drive that seems to be successful around here. I am making it a point this time to not buy just any drive/enclosure combo. My Apricorn enclosure is already on it's way and I'll probably buy the QV drive later this week. I'll probably sell the Azio on eBay or something.

BobKat6

12-03-06, 02:37 AM

That site says that what makes it's product so much better is that it uses 7200RPM compared to Maxtor's "5400RPM," but the Maxtor drive I plan to buy (http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A3400147&cmp=OTC-fr00g13) does use 7200RPM. Seeing as how the external drive on that site is supposedly made just for the 8300HD, why don't more people buy or recommend that one?

Does ClubIt guarantee it?

Why not more people is a damn good question.

______________________________
SA8300HD SARA v. 1.88.22.1

cuzzin

12-03-06, 03:08 AM

Does ClubIt guarantee it?

Why not more people is a damn good question.

______________________________
SA8300HD SARA v. 1.88.22.1
They better guarantee it for almost $300. If not, I'm sending it back right quick for false advertising, but I'm sure that won't be the case.

vegggas

12-03-06, 03:10 AM

You mention vegggas has success because he only deals with SARA users and 300GB drives; I am a SARA user, but the drive I was planning on getting is a 500GB. Do you find 300GB work better or something? And I'm not cheaping out on the drive; I'm getting the exact enclosure (Apricorn) and Maxtor QV drive that seems to be successful around here. I am making it a point this time to not buy just any drive/enclosure combo.
I've never used a Maxtor Quickview DRIVE and generic or name brand enclosure..
I have always used Maxor's Quickview Expander Kit. This is Maxtor's drive with Maxtor's enclosure and Maxtor's eSATA to eSATA cable made specifically for the SA8300. I've installed about 30 units for co-workers over the past two years (come Feb) in Las Vegas on SARA. In that time, the only failure to date has been due to twisting torque on the eSATA cable that, IMO has made the connection on the drive and STB somewhat "iffy". To remedy the situation, we zip tied the eSATA cable to the equipment rack.
Glitches can and do happen from time to time, but are mostly seen when the drives are filled to capacity and each has the "same" amount of remaing space available. I think that as both drives have the same remaining space available, two recording shows are recording on each drive.
Ironically, the Quickview Expander drive kit has a PATA drive. I opened one of mine to verify and it has a build date of Jan 2005, the same as the CES announcemnet. The build quality is top notch and very solid with extra bracing and vibration tape around the drive as well as internal rubber mounting bumpers.

vegggas

DoubleDAZ

12-03-06, 10:25 AM

As far as the signal issue goes, I thought I had my problem solved when I suspected that a signal issue was the problem, but a tech came to my house and messed around with my connections, increasing my signal strength substantially; I did not get any improvement in picture. I recently unplugged my external drive and all the glitches that were appearing in the picture dissappeared, so it was clearly an issue with the SATA drive, as I originally suspected. You mention vegggas has success because he only deals with SARA users and 300GB drives; I am a SARA user, but the drive I was planning on getting is a 500GB. Do you find 300GB work better or something? And I'm not cheaping out on the drive; I'm getting the exact enclosure (Apricorn) and Maxtor QV drive that seems to be successful around here. I am making it a point this time to not buy just any drive/enclosure combo. My Apricorn enclosure is already on it's way and I'll probably buy the QV drive later this week. I'll probably sell the Azio on eBay or something.I wasn't referring to you specifically. My comments were general in nature based upon what I see in this thread. Some folks do have a higher tolerance for problems and the wallet for trying different combinations until they find something that works for them, Scarlett seems willing to try just about anything. :)

Unfortunately, I've yet to see a combination, other than QVE maybe, that works in all situations. Many folks having problems are having them with capacities larger than 300G. That doesn't mean larger drives won't work, it just means the chances seem better with the smaller drives.

I know you are looking for something that positively will work for you right out of the box, but I don't think anyone here can give you that guarantee. I don't think SA even recommends anything other than the QVE and I'm not sure about that. Folks have simply taken it upon themselves to experiment and this threads was born. IMHO, return policy would be my number one consideration. :)

redjr

12-03-06, 12:29 PM

That's part of the problem with this thread. The info you used might have come from someone using different software (Passport or SARA) and therefore was inaccurate. I believe it's also been shown though that what works for one may not work for others with the same software. I see Passport users having problems and I see SARA users having problems. SARA may appear to have more, but they've had the capability longer. I thought someone using a 750G drive was using SARA, but I could be mistaken.

IMHO, it just shows that SATA may not be ready for primetime do-it-yourselfers. vegggas has had success with the QVE ready-to-use units, but I suspect he deals only (mostly?) with SARA users and 300G drives. It also seems that the folks having the least success are buying units from wherever they get the cheapest price, etc. When someone says they use Passport and bought unit X from supplier Y, it would seem that combination should then work for everyone with the same software, etc. However, folks go elsewhere, buy the same drive but a different case or the same case but a different drive, and then wonder why it doesn't work. Others don't know enough the make sure their signal levels are up to par and still others don't plug the cables in tight enough. If I were a cableco, I don't think I'd support this stuff yet either. :)
I agree with you. I don't think the cablecos can viably support the add-ons to their DVRs, anymore than MS (or your favorite hardware vendor) can support the addition of new software/hardware to a computer. More importantly, I think the 'tech' support for DVRs in general is woefully inadequate. And, despite the fact that the addition of an eSATA drive is reserved for a very small fringe group of technically incline people, due to the combination of factors that you mention above, it would prove almost impossible for CS reps at cablecos to deal with. Furthermore, in a defacto type of way forums such as these on AVS provide far more technical support to help in resolving hardware compatibility issues. Just my take on the situation. :D

redjr

12-03-06, 12:46 PM

Does ClubIt guarantee it?

Why not more people is a damn good question.

______________________________
SA8300HD SARA v. 1.88.22.1
Maybe there are more people buying them and not having any problems, hence more inclined not to be active participants in this thread. People tend to frequent forums when they're having problem as opposed to not. ;)

Robert Clark

12-03-06, 03:45 PM

If you want a guaranteed, sure thing...this was posted 10/10/2006:

http://discountechnology.com/8300HD-eSATA-Hard-Drive-for-Scientific-Atlanta-8300HD-DVR-250GB?sc=2&category=22

160, 250, 300, and 500gig are available here. My drive turned out to be a Maxtor.

_________________________
SA8300HD SARA v 1.88.22.1

Both that hard drive and the one on Weaknees say they are not compatible with Passport, but only with SARA.

Has anyone with Passport used either of those drives successfully?

DoubleDAZ

12-03-06, 03:57 PM

That could be because Passport didn't support expansion at all until fairly recently. Might be worth a phone call/email to clarify.

Scarlett

12-03-06, 05:28 PM

I wasn't referring to you specifically. My comments were general in nature based upon what I see in this thread. Some folks do have a higher tolerance for problems and the wallet for trying different combinations until they find something that works for them, Scarlett seems willing to try just about anything. :)Aw, come on Dave, where would we be today if Orville and Wilbur hadn't tried "just about anything"! :) Actually, I will try almost every logical and rational suggestion made by the good people here, but I have not spent a lot of money trying different combinations of enclosures and drives. The only enclosure I have ever bought is the Apricorn (4 of them), and I steadfastly maintain their excellence for this application. I had several SATA drives already available to me from a PVR project I have yet to complete, so when one didn't work, I tried another. The two that ultimately worked flawlessly were 300GB Seagates, and they continue to perform perfectly. The two 400GB Seagate SATA drives with perpendicular recording were bought for $95 each when frys.com launched. At that time, I traded my 8300 for an 8300HD, and it was the perfect opportunity to see how those 400GB drives would work as external SATA drives. They didn't work at all, so they are now earmarked for the PVR project--which probably now will become just a very large PC project. :)

It is true that I am more than a little interested in the Seagate DB35 series of hard drives. I believe them to be the successors to the Maxtor QuickView drives, but until we know whether Time Warner plans to retain the external SATA drive feature with its release of Navigator, I have no intention of spending +/-$300 to see if they perform as advertised. Here, in pertinent part, is the email I have sent to the Operations Manager at Time Warner Austin:

It has been reported that Time Warner is planning a switch to Navigator, or Mystro, in 2007. This, apparently, is in an effort to get all customers on the same platform, rather than having some operating with SARA firmware and others with Passport. If this is correct, can you tell me (a) when TW Austin is planning to implement the switch, (b) will we retain our SA8300HD DVRs, or will a completely different DVR be required, and (c) whether the option for external SATA drives will be available to us after the switch--regardless of whether it will be "supported" by TW? If a totally different DVR is to be used, will it ship with a substantially larger internal hard drive? The current 160GB hard drive in the 8300HD is woefully inadequate for HD recording!

Those of us who have been successful in adding external drives have done so at considerable expense, and we neither expect nor solicit "support" from TW for this feature. However, in an attempt to improve the quality of our HD recordings, some of us are now considering the purchase of SATA drives that have been optimized for streaming media, and those drives are even more expensive than the ones we are currently using that are designed for use in a computer. Furthermore, it is my understanding that the optimized drives cannot be used in computers, so if we lose the external SATA drive feature, the optimized drives will then become rather expensive doorstops or paperweights. :)I plan to ask these same questions in the TWC Consumer thread--maybe Diana can or will answer them for us--although that thread appears to have taken on a life of its own.

Unfortunately, I've yet to see a combination, other than QVE maybe, that works in all situations. Many folks having problems are having them with capacities larger than 300G. That doesn't mean larger drives won't work, it just means the chances seem better with the smaller drives.I agree that the QVE probably is the best solution, but they are impossible to find. I think the conjecture that the QVEs that were available at retail were a result of TWC's canceled order is more than a little plausible. Therefore, the next best logical choice would be the drive that was used in those kits, together with a reliable enclosure. I know that vegggas has had 100% success with the QVE kits, but weren't they all made with 300GB drives? Was there ever a 500GB QVE? I read his disclaimer about the QuickView drives coupled with generic or name-brand enclosures, and I agree that it remains to be seen whether that combination will work, but "nothing ventured, nothing gained" does seem to apply here. Isn't that what technology is all about? My only recommendation to cuzzin was the Apricorn enclosure, based not only on my own experience with it, but also on emphatic declarations from (admittedly self-proclaimed) experts that it is the best enclosure that money can buy. Those same "experts" claim that the Apricorn is capable of handling hard drives up to and exceeding 750GB. They praise the chipset that is used, as well as the power supply and the fan. So far as the 500GB QuickView SATA drive is concerned, I simply did the research to find cuzzin the lowest advertised price. I hope the combination is a winner for him, but I also warned him not to invest too heavily if his provider is TWC, because we still do not know whether we will have the external drive option after the switch to Navigator.

I know you are looking for something that positively will work for you right out of the box, but I don't think anyone here can give you that guarantee. I don't think SA even recommends anything other than the QVE and I'm not sure about that. Folks have simply taken it upon themselves to experiment and this threads was born. IMHO, return policy would be my number one consideration. :)I know that my posts are both exhaustive and exhausting, but if you take the time to read them, you will see that I have made these identical observations--and, for the record, I agree that return policy is a critical consideration. It is to your credit that you are able to say in a single paragraph what it takes me an entire chapter to relate! :)

Scarlett