My hard drive is a Western Digital Caviar RE WD3200YS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s and the enclosure is an epower EP-301SA tied together with a SIIG 3.28 ft. eSATA to SATA I Cable. I also bought an AZiO ENC311SU31 3.5" eSATA + USB 2.0 External Enclosure which i intend to use on my PC. I elected to use the epower enclosure because I needed somthing with a fan because I have the drive in an enclosed space. I was wondering if anyone has an opion on weather the AZiO enclosure would make a difference.

Hi All,

Please refer to the above quote.

I desided to try the AZiO ENC311SU31 using the stock cables that come with the azio enclosure. The 8300hd box gave me a message that there was a problem with the external hard drive please check cable connections etc. etc. (please note the HD works fine in the epower enclosure). I hooked the azio up to my firewire ports using the same stock cables that come with the azio to my laptop and it recognized the drive just fine. I formated the drive in windows xp and hooked it back up to the 8300 and got the same message. I then put the drive (formated in XP) back in the epower enclosure and the 8300 formated it and it works just fine.

I searched the forum and all posts I found say the drive and azio enclosure work just fine.

Has anyone had this type of problem that can give me some pointers as to whats wrong.

Hi All,

Please refer to the above quote.

I desided to try the AZiO ENC311SU31 using the stock cables that come with the azio enclosure. The 8300hd box gave me a message that there was a problem with the external hard drive please check cable connections etc. etc. (please note the HD works fine in the epower enclosure). I hooked the azio up to my firewire ports using the same stock cables that come with the azio to my laptop and it recognized the drive just fine. I formated the drive in windows xp and hooked it back up to the 8300 and got the same message. I then put the drive (formated in XP) back in the epower enclosure and the 8300 formated it and it works just fine.

I searched the forum and all posts I found say the drive and azio enclosure work just fine.

Has anyone had this type of problem that can give me some pointers as to whats wrong.

I had this same problem with the AZIO enclosure. Can't explain why some people are using them just fine. I switched to an Apricorn enclosure and it worked fine.

xnappo

I had this same problem with the AZIO enclosure. Can't explain why some people are using them just fine. I switched to an Apricorn enclosure and it worked fine.
Dodgy connections perhaps? Absent "interfering" electronics, there's nothing else in there.

Dodgy connections perhaps? Absent "interfering" electronics, there's nothing else in there.

My guess at the time was that the USB microcontroller that translates the SATA to USB was interfering with the straight SATA connection. Could be AZIO is using different vendors for the SATA->USB chip... Who knows? I was upset that though I ordered a SATA only Apricorn case, I got one with SATA and USB - but it works fine. It is clear from the database that Apricorn cases have a very high success rate (if you discount Seagate 7200.10 drives).

xnappo

I had this same problem with the AZIO enclosure. Can't explain why some people are using them just fine. I switched to an Apricorn enclosure and it worked fine.

xnappo

xnappo,

Thanks for the reply.

The epower enclosure works fine, I was just hoping to reduce the microblocking and audio dropout by changing the enclosure. If it will help this problem I would concider the Apricorn enclosure.

Dodgy connections perhaps? Absent "interfering" electronics, there's nothing else in there.

Pepar,

Thanks for the reply.

I checked and rechecked the connections and also tried the enclosure with the same cable used on the 8300 on my laptop which worked and formated fine. I'm not sure what you mean by absent "Interferfering" electronics but I have all my equipment plugged into a high end monster line conditioner and the epower enclosure does not have any problems.

there's nothing else in there.

I agree I can't think of anything else to try other then connecting the sata cable directly to the hard drive. The thing with that is I already know the hard drive works so this would not tell me whats wrong with the enclosure.

I agree I can't think of anything else to try other then connecting the sata cable directly to the hard drive. The thing with that is I already know the hard drive works so this would not tell me whats wrong with the enclosure.
Try that. With only the enclosure's power connector hooked to the drive.

Just hooked up my AZIO/WD Caviar 320GB Sata to my 8300HD, and it looks like I'm in business.

The first time it detected it I had to accept the format, but I didn't seem to get any message that formatting was complete. The drive was no longer flashing activity, so I figured it was done. I reset the box and drive again, and the box picked it up and said it was usable. My percent available then went fro 11% to 72%. Very nice.

I recorded a movie from HBO last night and it was going to the external based on the drive activity. I scanned through various parts of the movie and all playback seemed good.

Since the majority of my saved movies are on the internal, most of my TV viewing will be done from the external, so if there are any issues I should see them relatively soon.

I'm not sure what you mean by absent "Interferfering" electronics but I have all my equipment plugged into a high end monster line conditioner and the epower enclosure does not have any problems.
I am a proponent of enclosures with SATA ONLY as an interface. Many seem to have no problems with enclosures with more than one interface, but then some are bedeviled by problems with seemingly no rhyme or reason (except perhaps "interfering" electronics bridging to the other interface(s)).

Try that. With only the enclosure's power connector hooked to the drive.

I gather the direction your heading is that the enclosures circuit that powers the drive may be interfearing with the sata data circuitry within the enclosure? It makes sence and would give me an excuse to return the enclosure for an exchange.

Edit>> After further examination of the enclosure I found the HD power is supplied from the sata power connector and not a molex (4 pin) plug so this test is not possible.

I gather the direction your heading is that the enclosures circuit that powers the drive may be interfearing with the sata data circuitry within the enclosure? It makes sence and would give me an excuse to return the enclosure for an exchange.

Edit>> After further examination of the enclosure I found the HD power is supplied from the sata power connector and not a molex (4 pin) plug so this test is not possible.
I'm not being clear enough. My concern is that a USB interface in addition to the SATA interface has circuitry that messes with - note my highly technical background - the data going to the DVR. Not concerned about EMI or anything like that.

With the case open and case power attached to drive, run an SATA-to-eSATA cable from drive to DVR.

I'm not being clear enough. My concern is that a USB interface in addition to the SATA interface has circuitry that messes with - note my highly technical background - the data going to the DVR. Not concerned about EMI or anything like that.

With the case open and case power attached to drive, run an SATA-to-eSATA cable from drive to DVR.

I understand where your coming from. We are trying to determine if the USB to sata crossover circuitry is functioning correctly.

After further examination of the enclosure I found the HD power is supplied from the sata power connector and not a molex (4 pin) plug so this test is not possible.

I think a big recommendation to all would be to purchace an enclosure with just an sata connection and stay away from the sata/usb combination enclosures.

I think a big recommendation to all would be to purchace an enclosure with just an sata connection and stay away from the sata/usb combination enclosures.
I've posted my concern many times, but inexplicably it gets ignored quite often. :confused:

I've posted my concern many times, but inexplicably it gets ignored quite often. :confused:

It is a very valid concern, a differential interface at these speeds is going to be extremely sensitive to loading and termination.

In people's defense it is getting very hard to find eSATA only enclosures. As I mentioned I actually ordered one without USB and they did me a 'favor' of sending me an Apricorn enclosure with USB.

xnappo

It is a very valid concern, a differential interface at these speeds is going to be extremely sensitive to loading and termination.

In people's defense it is getting very hard to find eSATA only enclosures. As I mentioned I actually ordered one without USB and they did me a 'favor' of sending me an Apricorn enclosure with USB.

xnappo

My original EPower EP-301SA SATA only enclosure works very well so this is the configuration that I entered into your database. Hope all will heed this recommendation.

Exactly. And one millisecond after that happens cable companies all across the country will find themselves buried in unwanted cable boxes. We only have these kludges because of the monopoly.
From the diagnostic screens, or physical inspection, what is the internal drive in the DVR? Is it ATA or is it SATA?

I'm probably going to try and replace the internal drive and see if I can make it work. I'm not concerned right now with the ethics of the process. If it doesn't recognize the drive and format it automatically, I'll take the internal drive and image it onto the replacement using adapters to my computer and an imaging program. I may also use a partitioning program to expand the resulting partition to the full drive if the imaging program doesn't do it for me. Be interesting to see if any saved shows survive the process and if the imaged larger drive is immediately recognized by the DVR without reformatting.

My original EPower EP-301SA SATA only enclosure works very well so this is the configuration that I entered into your database. Hope all will heed this recommendation.

Thanks for the entry. It piqued my interest and... I think I might actually have some helpful advice for you!

You have an RE2 series drive, where most people reporting success with WD drives have SE16. One of the big differences between the two drives is in how it handles error correction. Read this article:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q3/wd-500s/index.x?pg=1

We have long suspected that differences in error correction may be leading to video stuttering. The good thing about WD drives is that they offer utilities to change the firmware features (unlike Seagate). You should be able to find a firmware utility through their website to play with TLER.

Hope this helps!
xnappo

P.S.
Unverified link to util to change setting:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~willm1/WDTLER.zip

From the diagnostic screens, or physical inspection, what is the internal drive in the DVR? Is it ATA or is it SATA?
I believe it is EIDE.

I'm probably going to try and replace the internal drive and see if I can make it work. I'm not concerned right now with the ethics of the process. If it doesn't recognize the drive and format it automatically, I'll take the internal drive and image it onto the replacement using adapters to my computer and an imaging program. I may also use a partitioning program to expand the resulting partition to the full drive if the imaging program doesn't do it for me. Be interesting to see if any saved shows survive the process and if the imaged larger drive is immediately recognized by the DVR without reformatting.
Sounds like you've got skilz. :D

If your imaging software has the right stuff, there's no reason why everything won't transfer bit-for-bit. Expanding the partition might be tricky, though. Good luck and keep us posted. We want to congratulate you or say "I told you so." :eek: :D

Isn't it ironic that a while back, many were arguing that the case won't matter, and that their 8300 was bad because it was stuttering with an external drive. Now, as people are experimenting with the same drive in multiple encolsures, they are learning that the enclosure makes a big difference, as well as the drive type.
For the record and the newbies, I'm still going strong (two yearswith dozens of users with the original 300GB Maxtor Quickview Expander kit. The kit has an internal PATA drive with a eSATA connector on the case.
vegggas

Isn't it ironic that a while back, many were arguing that the case won't matter, and that their 8300 was bad because it was stuttering with an external drive. Now, as people are experimenting with the same drive in multiple encolsures, they are learning that the enclosure makes a big difference, as well as the drive type.
For the record and the newbies, I'm still going strong (two yearswith dozens of users with the original 300GB Maxtor Quickview Expander kit. The kit has an internal PATA drive with a eSATA connector on the case.
vegggas

Yep. It is clear from the database that both are factors. The reason I started it in the first place was because I had to change *both* before getting a working setup.

xnappo

Personally I looked at the Quickview two years ago but to me it wasn't worth the cost vs. benefit.

Now I have 320GB extra for about $110. That's much more worth it.

Yep. It is clear from the database that both are factors. The reason I started it in the first place was because I had to change *both* before getting a working setup.
Is there data to conclude that the enclosure problems are due to dodgy internal connections or possibly from "additional" interfaces?

Personally I looked at the Quickview two years ago but to me it wasn't worth the cost vs. benefit.

Now I have 320GB extra for about $110. That's much more worth it.
I'd say "trouble-free operation" would be considered a "benefit."

Is there data to conclude that the enclosure problems are due to dodgy internal connections or possibly from "additional" interfaces?

Not really. There are a lot of people who have had success with Apricorn enclosures which have two interfaces. Someone would have to break out a very high speed oscilloscope to determine what is really going only. All we can do without such investigation is offer anecdotal advice. I want about double the current data before I think we will have enough information to make any hard statements. You can easily look at the database and pick a most likely to succeed case/drive combo though.

xnappo

Not really. There are a lot of people who have had success with Apricorn enclosures which have two interfaces. Someone would have to break out a very high speed oscilloscope to determine what is really going only.
Does this suggest that bad internal connections should be looked at closer as a possible differential on any given case that has successes and failures?

Does this suggest that bad internal connections should be looked at closer as a possible differential on any given case that has successes and failures?

Sure - people should obviously double check their connections. But I can tell you I tried many many times to get the connection good on my AZiO case that worked for some people. I even went as far as taking the entire interface out out of the case and plugging it into the drive directly to no avail.

One thing the database does not capture - and which I still think may be a factor - is the box hardware rev. What if SA switched vendors on the IDE->SATA chip, and one chip is more tolerant of signal levels for example? There are so many variables in what could cause 50% failure rates that I think we need to focus on what combinations have 90%+ success instead.

Certainly if you buy an Apricorn case and a WD SE16 drive and it does not work - check your cables carefully because that combination has a very high success rate.

xnappo

My original EPower EP-301SA SATA only enclosure works very well so this is the configuration that I entered into your database. Hope all will heed this recommendation.

Danny - could you please put your failing combo into the database too? I really need to have both parts of the data for it to be meaningful.

Thanks,
xnappo

Well, I picked up a 250GB Western Digital SATA drive and an aluminum SATA external enclosure a couple weeks ago at a local computer show. Got the drive at only 60 bucks for brand new OEM, and the case was about 20.

I finally got around to installing it (I needed a 6' grounded extension cord to run from my Power Center/Surge Protector to the PSU of the external enclosure, and I kept forgetting to pick one up, lol).

First go, I didnt have the sata power cable seated right so I had to take the enclosure apart and redo it. Plugged it back in, got the "Would you like to format" message and all went well from there. Was working great for 2-3 hours, no A/V skipping or popping like I have heard from other passport users.

8:00pm rolled around and I had 2 channels tapping at once, and 20 minutes in a menu came up saying I disconnected the drive! I am almost certain it overheated, the enclosure is pretty tight and has no fan or even vents on it!

So, what enclosure should I try next? I'll use this one for my PC since it is USB/IDE also which will come in handy.

I know people are using this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817362002

And it looks nice but it's kind of pricey. Are there any other's that are tried and true, but are less expensive? I'd like to stay around 20-25 but I guess if I have to 40 for that one aint too bad for piece of mind.

Thanks for the entry. It piqued my interest and... I think I might actually have some helpful advice for you!

You have an RE2 series drive, where most people reporting success with WD drives have SE16. One of the big differences between the two drives is in how it handles error correction. Read this article:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q3/wd-500s/index.x?pg=1

We have long suspected that differences in error correction may be leading to video stuttering. The good thing about WD drives is that they offer utilities to change the firmware features (unlike Seagate). You should be able to find a firmware utility through their website to play with TLER.

Hope this helps!
xnappo

P.S.
Unverified link to util to change setting:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~willm1/WDTLER.zip

Thanks xnappo,

That was a very intresting artical. I purchased the drive based on the fact that it was an enterprise level drive that would be more suited to running 24 hours a day. The 5 year warranty wasn't bad either. The point the artical brings up about TLER error correction could be spot on with the microblocking problems. I'm going to look into the utility to disable it. I'll report back when this is accomplished.

Danny - could you please put your failing combo into the database too? I really need to have both parts of the data for it to be meaningful.

Thanks,
xnappo

Be happy to.

P.S.
Unverified link to util to change setting:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~willm1/WDTLER.zip

I downloaded the utility to disable TLER and researched and found mention of the utility on serverl forums so I'm pritty sure its the right tool. There is a batch file called tler-off which I ran from a command prompt and I know it accessed the drive because I could here the drive spin up. I let it run for about 20 minutes and it never gave an indication that it completed or did anything at all. I finally had to end task on it. I have no clue if it disabled TLER but I put it back in the 8300 box and it did re-format and work.

Anyone know if there are any tools out there that will read the configuration of the drive and tell me the status of TLER.

As a follow up I did some research on WD's site and they claim that there is no way to disable TLER on the RE2 drive.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1478&p_created=1161619255&p_sid=v-zqtCwi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ 9NTgmcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXB lPXNlYXJjaF9mbmwmcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1kaXNhYmxlIHR sZXI*&p_li=&p_topview=1

Also WD's explination of how TLER works seems to contridict the articles explination. WD claims TLER sets the time the drive trys to correct the error to 7 seconds so raid controllers won't drop the drive from the array while non TLER drives (SE16) will try to error correct for up to 2 minutes.
Sooo, why buy a drive with that feature?

Sooo, why buy a drive with that feature?

In my opinion it is perfectly safe to use this drive because TLER is only concerned about the physical condition of the platter and would only come into play if the drive was physically defective or the drive was at the end of its lifespan and blocks and sectors were starting to physically go bad. In which time it would be recommended to replace the drive regardless of whether it was an re2 or se16 drive.

In my opinion it is perfectly safe to use this drive because TLER is only concerned about the physical condition of the platter and would only come into play if the drive was physically defective or the drive was at the end of its lifespan and blocks and sectors were starting to physically go bad. In which time it would be recommended to replace the drive regardless of whether it was an re2 or se16 drive.
I am of the opinion that anyone who buys a drive made for computer usage for streaming video is pushing their luck.

I believe it is EIDE.


Sounds like you've got skilz. :D

If your imaging software has the right stuff, there's no reason why everything won't transfer bit-for-bit. Expanding the partition might be tricky, though. Good luck and keep us posted. We want to congratulate you or say "I told you so." :eek: :D

Ok, so today I opened up the box and removed the internal 160gb Western Digital ATA hard drive. I ordered a 500gb Seagate and proceeded to hot replace it to see what happens.

On boot, I get the following sequence which eventually leads to no recognition of the hard drive:
Error 51
FRLR (I think, flashes very fast)
4 digit hexadecimal count down from 4FFF to 0
PROC
BOOT
shut-down/restart
Passport screen on the TV
Front panel then Says FAIL an starts a series of sequencing dashes for about 30 minutes. Hard drive sounds like it's being accessed and I assume trying to format.
System shuts off with time of day on front panel
Turn system on, TV comes up on cable channel, but no hard drive functions work.

I've repeated this sequence several times both using the front panel to reboot and also removing the plug for 5 minutes and rebooting.

I did see a post about the external SATA drive and Passport and removing the cable while the system is running and re-attaching it and then getting a format. I may try that, although I'm not to happy about removing an IDE cable while the system is operational.

Any other suggestions?

By the way, the posted method of getting into diagnostics for the Passport software doesn't seem to work for me (SELECT+EXIT until DIAGO followed by EXIT). The system did a software upgrade on me when I rebooted it before starting all this, so I may have a new version with newer access methods?

While all this was going on, I took the original WD hard drive and put it in an IDE tray set as slave on my PC. None of my partitioning or backup software recognized the partition or data on the disk; and some of them are supposed to backup LINUX volumes or work with them.

Ok, so today I opened up the box and removed the internal 160gb Western Digital ATA hard drive. I ordered a 500gb Seagate and proceeded to hot replace it to see what happens.

On boot, I get the following sequence which eventually leads to no recognition of the hard drive:
Error 51
FRLR (I think, flashes very fast)
4 digit hexadecimal count down from 4FFF to 0
PROC
BOOT
shut-down/restart
Passport screen on the TV
Front panel then Says FAIL an starts a series of sequencing dashes for about 30 minutes. Hard drive sounds like it's being accessed and I assume trying to format.
System shuts off with time of day on front panel
Turn system on, TV comes up on cable channel, but no hard drive functions work.

I've repeated this sequence several times both using the front panel to reboot and also removing the plug for 5 minutes and rebooting.

I did see a post about the external SATA drive and Passport and removing the cable while the system is running and re-attaching it and then getting a format. I may try that, although I'm not to happy about removing an IDE cable while the system is operational.

Any other suggestions?

By the way, the posted method of getting into diagnostics for the Passport software doesn't seem to work for me (SELECT+EXIT until DIAGO followed by EXIT). The system did a software upgrade on me when I rebooted it before starting all this, so I may have a new version with newer access methods?

While all this was going on, I took the original WD hard drive and put it in an IDE tray set as slave on my PC. None of my partitioning or backup software recognized the partition or data on the disk; and some of them are supposed to backup LINUX volumes or work with them.
What if you hooked both hard drives up to a PC, and you cloned the original Drive from the 8300 to the new 500gb drive? You could use something like Acronis True Image (Which provides a fully functional 15 day trial, I just used it to upgrade my laptop hard drive a few weeks ago).

http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

....I did see a post about the external SATA drive and Passport and removing the cable while the system is running and re-attaching it and then getting a format. I may try that, although I'm not to happy about removing an IDE cable while the system is operational.

Any other suggestions?Mike, I don't think you can replace an internal drive in an 8300HD that is running Passport--it is my understanding that only internal drives in SARA-based DVRs can be replaced and will format properly.

I also don't think you should try connecting or removing the IDE cable with power connected. That instruction is for the external drive/eSATA cable and never was intended for the internal drive/IDE cable.

I don't know very much about Linux, but my understanding of how you "clone" the internal hard drive is by using MFSTools and the "duplicate disk" or "dd" command in some form or fashion. If you understand Linux, then you should know how to go about it. If you are able to clone your Passport internal drive using MFSTools, then that might work for you. Apparently, the reason you can replace a SARA internal drive is because the formatting software is in flash ROM on the motherboard. I'm just guessing here, but maybe the formatting software for the Passport drives is not in flash ROM?

I know very little about the technical aspects, but this is what my research has revealed. I admire your pioneering spirit, and I wish you luck!

Scarlett

What if you hooked both hard drives up to a PC, and you cloned the original Drive from the 8300 to the new 500gb drive? You could use something like Acronis True Image (Which provides a fully functional 15 day trial, I just used it to upgrade my laptop hard drive a few weeks ago).


Reread my last paragraph. I did try Acronis True Image and Disk Director as well as Partition Magic. None of the three applications recognized any valid partitions on the original drive. I used the disk editor of Disk Director and examined some sectors and could see the data, but I'm assuming it's a propriatary format.

In these forums there are several posts about copying TIVO drives with a LINUX bit duplicating utility. Nothing specific on a Passport formatted drive though.

I plugged the original drive back into the DVR and it immediately recognized it and accessed all the disk functions. I have to believe that unlike the SARA software systems, the Passport systems keep some vital information on the hard drive that must be there when a replacement drive is installed.

One other possibility is that the drive I chose is too large (500gb) and the ROM routines are unable to access it due to its size; not sure.

I hate to give up, but I might just return the drive for a credit towards a SATA drive and enclosure; we'll see.

I don't know why people keep thinking that they can hook up a proprietary system to a PC and use an off the shelf product to read the encrypted data. The "OS" used is not related to linux or any computer format and the partitions are not common parameters that can be read in a PC. The use of hardware drive duplicator (~ $1500.00) could clone the existing drive, but that's as far as you would get. The cloned drive would only work in the original STB.

vegggas

I am of the opinion that anyone who buys a drive made for computer usage for streaming video is pushing their luck.


Not if they're running Passport, it seems. I was one of the first here to try a 500GB "ordinary" external HDD and it's been working flawlessly for months. Only have about 140 GB remaining on it now. Don't want to "queer the deal", but if it was going to misbehave, probably would have seen some evidence of it by now.

Not if they're running Passport, it seems. I was one of the first here to try a 500GB "ordinary" external HDD and it's been working flawlessly for months. Only have about 140 GB remaining on it now. Don't want to "queer the deal", but if it was going to misbehave, probably would have seen some evidence of it by now.
Yeah, you're right. We now know that Passport seems to work with just about anything. In the beginning, though, I just thought it best to drink the koolaid and go with a drive - HEY there, R_G! - "optimized for streaming video."

Let me revise my comment: "I am of the opinion that any SARA user who buys a drive made for computer usage for streaming video is pushing their luck."

P.S.
Unverified link to util to change setting:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~willm1/WDTLER.zip



I downloaded the utility to disable TLER and researched and found mention of the utility on serverl forums so I'm pritty sure its the right tool. There is a batch file called tler-off which I ran from a command prompt and I know it accessed the drive because I could here the drive spin up. I let it run for about 20 minutes and it never gave an indication that it completed or did anything at all. I finally had to end task on it. I have no clue if it disabled TLER but I put it back in the 8300 box and it did re-format and work.

Anyone know if there are any tools out there that will read the configuration of the drive and tell me the status of TLER.

__________________
8300HD
sara 1.89.17.1
WD3200YS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB SATA 3.0Gb/s
EPower EP-301sa Enclosure

Yeah, you're right. We now know that Passport seems to work with just about anything. In the beginning, though, I just thought it best to drink the koolaid and go with a drive - HEY there, R_G! - "optimized for streaming video."

Let me revise my comment: "I am of the opinion that any SARA user who buys a drive made for computer usage for streaming video is pushing their luck."

Sorry guys, but I disagree.

There have been many Passport failures reported with Seagate 7200.10 drives. I have no reason to believe that other drives that have a high SARA failure rate do not have a high Passport failure rate until there is some hard evidence of this. Currently there ARE no other drives with an obvious high failure rate with SARA.

I think due to the trick play bug scaring people off, the delay in enabling of the feature, and number of users we just see more SARA problems than Passport.

I don't think the issue with drives is in SARA/Passport but rather in PowerTV or the hardware itself.

xnappo

...disable TLER...WD3200YS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB SATA 3.0Gb/s...Have I got this backwards? I am confused -- why do you want to disable this function? I understood the [desired goal] for streaming video function eliminated error-correction [entirely], whereas this function [allows] 7 seconds before the cut-off. But is that not less than the [WD normal PC-oriented allowance] of >2 minutes¹? I do not see the expected gain in turning it off (which would increase the allowed time to > 2 minutes before cutoff). Albeit there is probably no expected gain in having a TLER of 7 seconds either².

Are you toying with trying to examine if the [error correcting] routine itself may be different - and presumably slower than the ones associated with non-RAID/TLER or streaming-video-optimized -- with the assumption that the routine would revert back when you switch TLER off, and not just change the time limit -- ?

Anyone know if there are any tools out there that will read the configuration of the drive and tell me the status of TLER.Some RedDwarfer fellow posted a comment on the TechReport page that WD support sent him a routine to "Enable / disable read and/or write TLER. Displays current read and write TLER.", but WD Answer ID 1478 (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1478) states otherwise, so WD probably does not support that anymore (if ever...), but you could try.


v/r,
C-F
TWC-ELP
SARA 1.89.17.1 but no time to frak with it.


¹ WD Answer ID 1397 (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1397)
² Not counting other robustness enhancements on an Enterprise/RAID oriented drive. Although sometimes perceived enhancements are not really benefits.

Sorry guys, but I disagree.

There have been many Passport failures reported with Seagate 7200.10 drives. I have no reason to believe that other drives that have a high SARA failure rate do not have a high Passport failure rate until there is some hard evidence of this. Currently there ARE no other drives with an obvious high failure rate with SARA.

I think due to the trick play bug scaring people off, the delay in enabling of the feature, and number of users we just see more SARA problems than Passport.

I don't think the issue with drives is in SARA/Passport but rather in PowerTV or the hardware itself.

xnappo
Yes, and all pepar said was people were "pushing their luck" - and it appears that was a good statement that summarized the situation (for either SARA, Passport, or Navigator ;) ).

Have I got this backwards? I am confused -- why do you want to disable this function? I understood the [desired goal] for streaming video function eliminated error-correction [entirely], whereas this function [allows] 7 seconds before the cut-off. But is that not less than the [WD normal PC-oriented allowance] of >2 minutes¹? I do not see the expected gain in turning it off (which would increase the allowed time to > 2 minutes before cutoff). Albeit there is probably no expected gain in having a TLER of 7 seconds either².

Are you toying with trying to examine if the [error correcting] routine itself may be different - and presumably slower than the ones associated with non-RAID/TLER or streaming-video-optimized -- with the assumption that the routine would revert back when you switch TLER off, and not just change the time limit -- ?
Grrr, buy the part best suited to the mission and no "toying" would be necessary. What is it? A price savings to buy a "computer" drive over a "video streaming" drive? If so, what about all of these machinations to then get it to work smoothly on a DVR? What's their time worth? Sheeeesh.

Yes, and all pepar said was people were "pushing their luck" - and it appears that was a good statement that summarized the situation (for either SARA, Passport, or Navigator ;) ).

Not to be snarky, but pepar also said:
"Yeah, you're right. We now know that Passport seems to work with just about anything. In the beginning, though, I just thought it best to drink the koolaid and go with a drive - HEY there, R_G! - "optimized for streaming video.""

Which is what I was disagreeing with. I think Pepar disagrees with himself on this point too :)

The party line needs to be buy a drive with high success in the SARA database or that is optimized for video for your highest chance of success.

With no caveats like - unless you have Passport, in which case you can use just about anything.

xnappo

Not to be snarky, but pepar also said:
"Yeah, you're right. We now know that Passport seems to work with just about anything. In the beginning, though, I just thought it best to drink the koolaid and go with a drive - HEY there, R_G! - "optimized for streaming video.""

Which is what I was disagreeing with. I think Pepar disagrees with himself on this point too :)

The party line needs to be buy a drive with high success in the SARA database or that is optimized for video for your highest chance of success.

With no caveats like - unless you have Passport, in which case you can use just about anything.

xnappo
Is your feeling that, if there were as many Passporters adding external drives, there would be as many problems as there is with SARA?

Is your feeling that, if there were as many Passporters adding external drives, there would be as many problems as there is with SARA?

Basically yes. If you look at the failures with SARA, the vast majority were due to the rock-bottom prices on Seagate 7200.10 drives. The next failure mode seems to be case related(not enough data). I think we have seen signs that these problems exist on Passport too - but not the huge rash of people trying 7200.10 drives we had with SARA in December.

xnappo

Actually, I am far more interested in Mike2977's experience.

Someone in the Albany NY area posted that they successfully replaced the internal drive in a 8300, from his description, it sounded like the whole software suite did get dynamically downloaded. I could be wrong, but I think I remember it being a TWC/Passport area.

Marketing mumbo-jumbo aside, any and all of the hard drive/enclosure combos have no issues doing what they were designed to do, write data and read it back. I feel the issue is 100% at the doorstep of the DVR and more specifically, it's software. It's no wonder that there seems to be a largely anecdotal body of data saying this drive with that enclose doesn't work, or vertical recording HDs don't work which leads some to think the fault lies with the drive or the box.

That being said, Mike2977's failure to have a internal drive replacement could very well be a part of this. Given the general experience with external drives, it very well may be that a different drive might work.

Ok, so today I opened up the box and removed the internal 160gb Western Digital ATA hard drive. I ordered a 500gb Seagate and proceeded to hot replace it to see what happens.

On boot, I get the following sequence which eventually leads to no recognition of the hard drive:
Error 51
FRLR (I think, flashes very fast)
4 digit hexadecimal count down from 4FFF to 0
PROC
BOOT
shut-down/restart
Passport screen on the TV
Front panel then Says FAIL an starts a series of sequencing dashes for about 30 minutes. Hard drive sounds like it's being accessed and I assume trying to format.
System shuts off with time of day on front panel
Turn system on, TV comes up on cable channel, but no hard drive functions work.

I've repeated this sequence several times both using the front panel to reboot and also removing the plug for 5 minutes and rebooting.

Did you try to format the new drive as an external drive, through esata, before hooking it up internally?

Basically yes. If you look at the failures with SARA, the vast majority were due to the rock-bottom prices on Seagate 7200.10 drives. The next failure mode seems to be case related(not enough data). I think we have seen signs that these problems exist on Passport too - but not the huge rash of people trying 7200.10 drives we had with SARA in December.
Maybe, but then that may just be an assumption, too. Lack of Passporters complaining doesn't automatically suggest to me that it's due to not enough of them adding external drives. In fact, those that I've helped or followed posts the posts of have had universal success.

Have I got this backwards? I am confused -- why do you want to disable this function? I understood the [desired goal] for streaming video function eliminated error-correction [entirely], whereas this function [allows] 7 seconds before the cut-off. But is that not less than the [WD normal PC-oriented allowance] of >2 minutes¹? I do not see the expected gain in turning it off (which would increase the allowed time to > 2 minutes before cutoff). Albeit there is probably no expected gain in having a TLER of 7 seconds either².

Are you toying with trying to examine if the [error correcting] routine itself may be different - and presumably slower than the ones associated with non-RAID/TLER or streaming-video-optimized -- with the assumption that the routine would revert back when you switch TLER off, and not just change the time limit -- ?

Some RedDwarfer fellow posted a comment on the TechReport page that WD support sent him a routine to "Enable / disable read and/or write TLER. Displays current read and write TLER.", but WD Answer ID 1478 (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1478) states otherwise, so WD probably does not support that anymore (if ever...), but you could try.


v/r,
C-F
TWC-ELP
SARA 1.89.17.1 but no time to frak with it.


¹ WD Answer ID 1397 (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1397)
² Not counting other robustness enhancements on an Enterprise/RAID oriented drive. Although sometimes perceived enhancements are not really benefits.

I am having video microblocking and audio dropout problems and xnappo suggested that having TLER enabled may be causing this due to its short (7 second) error correction timing. By disabling it the drive would error correct up to 2 minutes like a desktop hard drive (SE16) does. If I knew about TLER before I bought the drive I would have gotten an se16 drive. But whats done is done so I'm trying to make the best of a bad situation.

Maybe, but then that may just be an assumption, too. Lack of Passporters complaining doesn't automatically suggest to me that it's due to not enough of them adding external drives. In fact, those that I've helped or followed posts the posts of have had universal success.

Not the ones who used 7200.10 drives.

Those guys never got it working.

xnappo

*EDIT* If you want to find the 7200.10 failures on Passport, here are the usernames to search for in this thread (in January mostly):

racinmd
Hamster
nctraveler
truthteller2424

I am having video microblocking and audio dropout problems and xnappo suggested that having TLER enabled may be causing this due to its short (7 second) error correction timing. By disabling it the drive would error correct up to 2 minutes like a desktop hard drive (SE16) does. If I knew about TLER before I bought the drive I would have gotten an se16 drive. But whats done is done so I'm trying to make the best of a bad situation.

Actually after reading up on TLER - I tend to agree it probably won't make any difference. It is a knob to turn, but from what I have read it shouldn't hurt this application - actually if anything it would help. It is interesting that the RE2 and SE16 are so similar and yet the SE16 does not seem to have this issue.

xnappo

Actually, I am far more interested in Mike2977's experience.

Someone in the Albany NY area posted that they successfully replaced the internal drive in a 8300, from his description, it sounded like the whole software suite did get dynamically downloaded. I could be wrong, but I think I remember it being a TWC/Passport area.

Marketing mumbo-jumbo aside, any and all of the hard drive/enclosure combos have no issues doing what they were designed to do, write data and read it back. I feel the issue is 100% at the doorstep of the DVR and more specifically, it's software. It's no wonder that there seems to be a largely anecdotal body of data saying this drive with that enclose doesn't work, or vertical recording HDs don't work which leads some to think the fault lies with the drive or the box.

That being said, Mike2977's failure to have a internal drive replacement could very well be a part of this. Given the general experience with external drives, it very well may be that a different drive might work.

I would love to know what the Albany guy did to get a replacement internal drive to work (used to live in Albany many, many moons ago.)

The Saga continues:

Ok, so today I brought a Linux expert home with me from work (small bribe for a beer or two.) We put a bare 160gb drive in my computer in the drive 1 slot (set as master) and the DVR drive in the drive 2 slot (set as slave.)

I downloaded the MFSBackup ISO image and created a bootable CD. Then booting from that CD we attempted to follow the instructions on the TIVO forums for backing up the DVR's hard drive unsuccessfully. MFSBackup refused to recognize the DVR source drive (as did all my image copy programs before and a try today with a friends DriveImage program.)

We then tried to mount the DVR drive even though it did not appear in any partition lists. I don't recall all the commands my friend was able to use, but after about 20 minutes...success! There were all the files and directories including a very large file in the root of the drive that must have either been a virtual partition or the 2 hour movie that I know was on the drive (likely the later.)

However the only commands we could get to access these files were the CP commands, and in retrospect we stopped the copy process because we knew that the target drive, formatted in FAT32, would likely not work in the DVR since it didn't have the hidden partition on it (our guess, but not sure.)

At the moment I have taken the 160gb "spare" drive out of my PC and put it in the DVR just to see if the larger 500bg replacement drive was too big.

The screen on the DVR showed a new message after it errored out "UPGR" and now is blinking the running dots as it may be trying to format it. I'll know in an hour or so if the smaller sized drive does format. If it does, then I'll go out and get a 300gb to replace the 500gb I bought. If not, I'll return the 500gb and give up on this project and pick up an eSata this weekend and start over!

It's been a fun project; be more interesting if it worked!

Did you try to format the new drive as an external drive, through esata, before hooking it up internally?

The internal drive is ATA. The external, SATA. So no way to hook up the replacement internal drive in an external enclosure....although thinking about it, I haven't tried hooking it up to the USB port.

Has anyone had any success with a USB2 external hard drive?

The internal drive is ATA. The external, SATA. So no way to hook up the replacement internal drive in an external enclosure....although thinking about it, I haven't tried hooking it up to the USB port.

Has anyone had any success with a USB2 external hard drive?

No, that won't work. But there are IDE to SATA adapters.

xnappo

No, that won't work. But there are IDE to SATA adapters.

xnappo

Now you had to start me thinking again :)

So, I've just ordered an external eSata Seagate hard drive kit (complete with cables, etc.) and will pick it up at CompUSA tomorrow. So I guess I can see if they have an IDE to SATA adapter such that I could take the ATA drive I still have and if the SATA port is active and the process works for the external drive, I could try it again for the bare IDE drive with the adapter through the external port and then try putting it in the inside of the box.

However, the more I think this through, the more I wouldn't think it would work. When we were able to look at the contents of the DVR drive (about 20 directories and a lot of files in the root), I wouldn't think that the external format process would put all those system files on that drive; they'd stay on the internal one.

Gave up on trying to make an upgrade to the internal drive under Passport and joined the ranks of successful installers of an external eSATA drive.

Picked up a 300gb external hard drive at CompUSA today: Seagate ST3300601XS-RK for $142.49 plus tax. I figured that by buying the complete solution, I eliminated the guesswork of a seperate case and bare drive combination. Also, the CompUSA return policy is 21 days no question asked (as long as no damage to the drive.) That gave me the assurance that I could return the whole thing if it didn't work.

It did.

As has been posted here, it takes a couple of reboots to get everything working. Since I tried this a couple of different ways, I can't give you an exact step by step of what I did, but essentially I shut down the DVR and removed the power cable. Then I powered up the external drive and plugged it into the DVR. Turned on the DVR power and it went through the boot cycle.

When it finished and the TV was visible, I entered the diagnostics screens and saw that the only entry on the SATA screen was "authorized" and the DVR AVFS screen only showed me the capacity for the internal drive.

Remembering that someone posted they had to disconnect and reconnect the SATA cable while powered up, I did that and immediately got a pop-up message stating that the external drive was unplugged or turned off.

Then I shut everything down again, removed power from drive and DVR and repeated the process above. This time after the reboot, I got a pop-up message stating that the external drive had to be formatted. I accepted it and following a very short time (maybe a minute or so), the TV picture came back.

Once again, I entered the diagnostics screen and this time on the SATA page it had a sequence of messages in reverse chronological order under SATA: Authorized: Drive Unplugged, Drive Not Formatted, Format Complete, Drive OK. And under the DVR AVFS page, even though it still reported the storage as internal, the total capacity had gone up from 146.9 to 407.5.

Mission successful except for the reported problem of live shows that are paused not having the ability to fast forward or rewind. I couldn't even press the "live" button on the remote. I had to turn off and on again in order to bypass the delayed video stream. Small price to pay I guess to get the larger storage as recorded shows have full functionallity of program control.

Wish I could have made the internal upgrade work, but I'll settle for the external. And the 300gb solution was about $50 cheaper than the bare ATA internal I had purchased. And in the Seagate box, they even threw in a PCI SATA controller I can use on my PC if I want to get faster eSATA backups than my USB current drives.

Mike

. . . I could return the whole thing if it didn't work.

It did.
CONGRATULATIONS!

So what is the best enclosure and hard drive to buy for the SA 8300 with Passport? What is the added hourly time of recording of High Definition material of a 300GB drive compared to a 400 or 500 drive? And I would also need an ESATA to ESATA cable correct? or is it a SATA to ESATA cable?

So what is the best enclosure and hard drive to buy for the SA 8300 with Passport? What is the added hourly time of recording of High Definition material of a 300GB drive compared to a 400 or 500 drive? And I would also need an ESATA to ESATA cable correct? or is it a SATA to ESATA cable?
There is no "best" enclosure. Aesthetics enters into the decision. Having said that, I look for an enclosure with a fan and no other interfaces than the eSATA. The cable needed is determined by the connectors on the DVR - an eSATA - and the enclosure - (hopefully) eSATA as well. I say "hopefully" as there may still be some with SATA connectors and that dates the design.

With regard to the drive, again, my preference is one made for streaming video, i.e. DVR usage.

I have the 8300HD and the same external drive and I am also unable to get it to work! I have tried using the eSATA to eSATA cable and I get the same disconnection error.

Question: Have you tried using an eSATA to SATA I cable?

I have the 8300HD and the same external drive and I am also unable to get it to work! I have tried using the eSATA to eSATA cable and I get the same disconnection error.

Question: Have you tried using an eSATA to SATA I cable?
You can only use the cable that fits. If you're plugging into an eSATA connector, then you need an eSATA connector on that end of the cable. And the connector on the opposite end is determined by the connector with which it needs to mate.

Try re-seating the connectors, including the ones INSIDE the enclosure. SATA connections can be extremely fussy. If you have additional cables, try swapping them.

would this be a good drive to buy?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136073

or would the Maxtor be better like this one

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2928327&Sku=TSD-500M3&SRCCODE=NEXTAG&CMP=EMC-NEXTAG

would this be a good drive to buy?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136073

or would the Maxtor be better like this one

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2928327&Sku=TSD-500M3&SRCCODE=NEXTAG&CMP=EMC-NEXTAG

Well, for $142.49 and 300gb with the case included/matched by Seagate and the proper cable included, why wouldn't you just get an external hard drive and not fuss with trying to match up a custom installation?

Having returned an ATA to Circuit City no questions asked, when it didn't work inside my DVR and buying the external drive at CompUSA, again with a no questions asked return policy, why take chances with unknown quantiies?

Also take a look at this database and see the combinations that seem to work (just added my configuration today.) http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/main

Well, for $142.49 and 300gb with the case included/matched by Seagate and the proper cable included, why wouldn't you just get an external hard drive and not fuss with trying to match up a custom installation?

Having returned an ATA to Circuit City no questions asked, when it didn't work inside my DVR and buying the external drive at CompUSA, again with a no questions asked return policy, why take chances with unknown quantiies?

Also take a look at this database and see the combinations that seem to work (just added my configuration today.) http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/main
I would Mike but I read your earlier post saying you can't FF or RW after you pause live TV with the Seagate. I use that way too much to even consider that. I am one of those that will pause an hour long show for 15 minutes si I can FF thru commercials. And thanks for that link I will be sure to check that out.

I checked that link and its for the SARA versions of the 8300 I have the Passport. Thanks anyway Mike.

phipp01,

I think you misunderstand. You lose "trick play" with Passport, it has nothing to do with any particular drive/enclosure combination. The workaround is to simply record everything you watch and watch the recording.

I checked that link and its for the SARA versions of the 8300 I have the Passport. Thanks anyway Mike.
True, it's the only database that I saw, so I added to it with the Passport software. But at least the database gives you guidance on what drives and cases do and don't work with the DVR itself.

I would Mike but I read your earlier post saying you can't FF or RW after you pause live TV with the Seagate. I use that way too much to even consider that. I am one of those that will pause an hour long show for 15 minutes si I can FF thru commercials. And thanks for that link I will be sure to check that out.

Instead of pausing the DVR, just press record and then come back and pick up the show from the point you started recording it.

I don't think I see any live shows any more anyway; maybe the morning news when I get up. Just about everything I watch these days is time shifted. That being more important to me than full functionality of the pause and advance/rewind, I view the gain of additional space as being more significant. As it was, I was starting to lose some of the weekly shows since I was saving 2 hour + movies to watch on the weekends. Now I have enough space for both.

I tried to connect my WD My Book Premium ES 500GB external hard drive up to my 8300HD. I live in lincoln, NE and have the new navigator. Even after several reboots I got nothing. I just emailed technical support about it and will be awaiting their answer. I will post back here.

I tried to connect my WD My Book Premium ES 500GB external hard drive up to my 8300HD. I live in lincoln, NE and have the new navigator. Even after several reboots I got nothing. I just emailed technical support about it and will be awaiting their answer. I will post back here.

Good luck with technical support; most likely they'll tell you that the external port is not supported on their system.

But to check it out, go into the diagnostics mode and go to the screen showing SATA support and see if it's "authorized." Also look to see if there are any other entries on that page. Since your My Book is not working, you may not see any.

Exit the diagnostics mode (you may have to turn the front panel button off and on again (I couldn't figure out how to exit, as the exit button didn't) so you have a video picture back. Then with everything running, remove the eSATA cable either from the hard drive or the back of the unit (whichever is more accessable.) See if you get a pop-up saying to check your cables or power on the drive. This will tell you if the port itself is active. If this happens, you can be pretty sure that your diagnostics page for SATA has been updated with that status (as mine was.)

Turn everything off again (remove power cables from both units) and remove one end of the eSATA cable. Now turn on the external drive and reconnet the eSATA cable. Then insert the DVR power cable and either durring or after the boot cycle watch for a pop-up message that will ask you if you want to format your drive.

This has been documented several times on this forum and is exactly what happened to me. I had to do this more than once for it to work, but it eventually did.

Let us know what happens.

would this be a good drive to buy?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136073

or would the Maxtor be better like this one

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2928327&Sku=TSD-500M3&SRCCODE=NEXTAG&CMP=EMC-NEXTAG
I would go with the Quickview wthout question. In fact, that's the drive I have on one of my 8300HD's.

True, it's the only database that I saw, so I added to it with the Passport software. But at least the database gives you guidance on what drives and cases do and don't work with the DVR itself.

I can easily create a Passport page if one is wanted. I asked a while back and there wasn't any interest. Just let me know - I don't want to mix the two yet though.

xnappo

Instead of pausing the DVR, just press record and then come back and pick up the show from the point you started recording it.

That is the exact "work-around" to the Passport trick play bug. Except, twice that I tried doing exactly that, I got a recording of everything up to the point I hit record, and NOTHING after that (the exact situation was I was watching something, someone called, I thought it more important to take the call AND I knew it would probably outrun the buffer, so I just hit the record button)! Obviously, a subtle Passport bug. As in intermittent.

Good luck with technical support; most likely they'll tell you that the external port is not supported on their system.

But to check it out, go into the diagnostics mode and go to the screen showing SATA support and see if it's "authorized." Also look to see if there are any other entries on that page. Since your My Book is not working, you may not see any.

Exit the diagnostics mode (you may have to turn the front panel button off and on again (I couldn't figure out how to exit, as the exit button didn't) so you have a video picture back. Then with everything running, remove the eSATA cable either from the hard drive or the back of the unit (whichever is more accessable.) See if you get a pop-up saying to check your cables or power on the drive. This will tell you if the port itself is active. If this happens, you can be pretty sure that your diagnostics page for SATA has been updated with that status (as mine was.)

Turn everything off again (remove power cables from both units) and remove one end of the eSATA cable. Now turn on the external drive and reconnet the eSATA cable. Then insert the DVR power cable and either durring or after the boot cycle watch for a pop-up message that will ask you if you want to format your drive.

This has been documented several times on this forum and is exactly what happened to me. I had to do this more than once for it to work, but it eventually did.

Let us know what happens.Hey guys, this has been brought up before - but it is time to repeat it. What works, and what doesn't and how to make it work are all very dependent on the software that YOUR cable system uses. People who post here really ought to:
1) Include their location in their profile
2) Include the version of software that they are using in their signature.

Mike, your advice might be useful, or might not. It would help if we knew whether or not you had Navigator, and if so, where you were located.

Beerpimp, Your post here tells us that you are in Lincoln and have Navigator - but the next post you make will not have that info - so including the info in your profile/signature will always make it easy for the rest of us to "know where you are coming from".

Thanks guys

I can easily create a Passport page if one is wanted. I asked a while back and there wasn't any interest. Just let me know - I don't want to mix the two yet though.

xnappo

Yes, please do. You can move my entry in the Sara database over if you like, or I'll do it when you set it up.

Yes, please do. You can move my entry in the Sara database over if you like, or I'll do it when you set it up.

Done. See link in my sig. Mike - I moved your info over. Other Passporters - please add.

xnappo

Let me reiterate what Dave said, without knowing where your are, what cable system, what STB and what software, it's really impossible to help. I used to post "please, we need some basic information in order to help" but honestly, I tend to not do that anymore.

Done. See link in my sig. Mike - I moved your info over. Other Passporters - please add.

xnappoAnother great job, xnappo; however, the "Back" button on the "Comments" page sends you to the main SARA database. :)

Scarlett

Another great job, xnappo; however, the "Back" button on the "Comments" page sends you to the main SARA database. :)

Scarlett

:) ok - fixed that.

I am also missing a link to tell Passport people how to figure out their software version.

xnappo

:) ok - fixed that.

I am also missing a link to tell Passport people how to figure out their software version.

xnappoI believe software version is in the diagnostics pages referred to at the end of this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4547722&&#post4547722

I believe software version is in the diagnostics pages referred to at the end of this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4547722&&#post4547722

gracias.

xnappo

I suggest adding a note that TrickPlay is busted on Passport w/ external drive, and a brief explanation of the defect. You might also include a column "TrickPlay busted (Y/N)" just in case by a miracle TrickPlay is not busted for someone.

Something like this:
"It is a known defect that the Live Buffer (also refered to as TrickPlay) is defective on Passport when recording to an external drive. This manifests itself by your not being able to use Rewind or RePlay when watching live tv. Note that if you have an external drive connected but the DVR is currently recording to the internal drive (because the internal drive happens to have more free space than the external drive), then the LiveBuffer will function normally."

Here's one for Pepar!

Most of the time I think just about anyone should be able to do a DIY and get a hard drive into a case. And in many cases, that is true. BUT, I just got handed a left field situation that I solved mostly because I've spent so many years dealing with such issues. I got a new burner and an enclosure and the enclosure had a WAY short ribbon cable that would never in a million years fit any HD or optical drive. It was about an inch long and it should be more like 3-4 inches. AND just about all ribbon cables one could buy are minimum 18 inches and include a second connector. These would NOT fit into the rather small space allocated.

Of COURSE I have a collection for such cables, so I took an 18 incher and cut off the middle to end connector portion that was the longer of the 2. Now I have about a 5-6" section that fit just fine and dandy. THEN I see that it's virtually impossible to re-attach the power light. I had to further disassemble the circuit board to get that baby set correctly.

Everything works 5 by, but I think a LOT of folks would be on the phone trying to get their money back!

gracias.

xnappo

Might you be ready to start a Navigator db? From all we know, it sure seems like it's going to replace both Passport & SARA, hat percentage and timing still very much up in the air. But it sure seems inevitable!

Might you be ready to start a Navigator db? From all we know, it sure seems like it's going to replace both Passport & SARA, hat percentage and timing still very much up in the air. But it sure seems inevitable!

Oh, trust me, I am definitely going to make a Navigator one the second we get some people talking about it! It is trivial to make a new one.

I have heard conflicting reports of it working at all. I think there is one person who got Navigator and already had a drive that it worked for, and another that got Navigator then added a drive and it didn't work?

xnappo

I'm sure others have had success, but I did add an eSATA drive to the 8300HD SARA with no problems. It was a SEAGATE eSATA 300GB drive. I just turned everything off, unplugged the 8300, plugged in the drive, connected it (cable included), plugged in the 8300, told the 8300 to reformat the drive (I never received a message saying it was done), waited about 10 minutes, unplugged the 8300, re-plugged it and my used space went from 45% to 15%.

The only issue was one show wasn't viewable, and I don't know why. But since then, no problem.

The drive cost $269. Great for those who don't want to mess with an internal drive and then connecting an enclosure. I don't know the software version but I have the 4th FF and the start at beginning option.

Rich N.

I have heard conflicting reports of it working at all. I think there is one person who got Navigator and already had a drive that it worked for, and another that got Navigator then added a drive and it didn't work?

xnappo

Plus from what I've read, one of the test areas seem to be deploying Navigator to non DVR boxes only. Some guy said he has it only on a pair of 2150s (can't remember the exact number) but his 8300 has passport.

Plus from what I've read, one of the test areas seem to be deploying Navigator to non DVR boxes only. Some guy said he has it only on a pair of 2150s (can't remember the exact number) but his 8300 has passport.

Yep... Here is the post saying it doesn't work at all:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10057800&&#post10057800

And one that has it working:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9279739&&#post9279739

xnappo

I have a 300G esata drive connected to my TWC NY 8300HD. I know that allot of people have the 500 G drives, but can you use the 700G drive with the 8300H. My external case supports 700+, but I do not want to buy a 700, when it might only be able to go up to 500G.

Thanks

FYI for anyone purchasing an Apricorn EZ BUS DTS eSATA enclosure. I ordered one from Newegg and received the version with both USB and eSATA ports. I installed my existing SATA drive into the enclosure (came from a Vantec Nexstar3 whose power supply failed) and plugged everything back into the SA 8300. Performed the typical power removal process but the 8300 would not see the drive at all which had me pretty worried. Tried the power removal several more times, checked connections, etc.

Anyway, long story short, this enclosure has a jumper inside on the PCB labeled J4. Mine came jumpered on pins 1&2 which is labeled "USB to 2 SATA HDDs" (whatever that means). Anyway, I switched it to jumper pins 2&3 which is labeled "SATA and USB for 1 SATA HDD". Plugged the whole mess in again and it's working properly now.

I searched the forum but did not find any reference to this so I figured I'd share my experience in case someone trips over the same issue.

Take care,

Drivie

Anyway, long story short, this enclosure has a jumper inside on the PCB labeled J4. Mine came jumpered on pins 1&2 which is labeled "USB to 2 SATA HDDs" (whatever that means). Anyway, I switched it to jumper pins 2&3 which is labeled "SATA and USB for 1 SATA HDD". Plugged the whole mess in again and it's working properly now.


Drivie

Yeah - Newegg seems to always ship the USB/eSATA version even if you order the eSATA only version.

That is weird about that jumper - I saw it inside mine but it was set the right way. I think that little board in there must also be used in a 2 eSATA drive to USB only case...

xnappo

Ha, both 1, and 2 can refer to the USB connection and to the version of SATA!

My guess is that we aren't going to see all that many eSATA ONLY enclosures. A device like that is really only applicable to those who are savvy enough to install an extra card in their computer to do external SATA. Plus, having a USB connection really makes it more flexible, if there's an issue with that external SATA card, you still have the USB connection to use. Then again, there is no fault of the drive/box combo if it's a SATA + USB box and doesn't work with the 8300, the notion of USB "interfering" with the SATA connection I find impossible to believe.

Apricon now offers two DVR Xpanders, 250GB ($129) and 500GB ($199):
http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=37
Sounds like one-stop shopping for those not inclined to DIY when you just have
to have more DVR capacity....

And the price ain't half bad either....

Now if TWC-SD could simply fix the inability to use FF/RW for
those programs that end up on the eSATA (records to whichever drive
has most room).

Until TWC fixes it, eSATA is a non-starter for me....

the notion of USB "interfering" with the SATA connection I find impossible to believe.

Still, if for no other reason than simplicity, ya can't beat just a cable from the SATA connector on the drive to a straight through connector in the case. :p

Apricon now offers two DVR Xpanders, 250GB ($129) and 500GB ($199):
http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=37
Sounds like one-stop shopping for those not inclined to DIY when you just have
to have more DVR capacity....

And the price ain't half bad either....

Now if TWC-SD could simply fix the inability to use FF/RW for
those programs that end up on the eSATA (records to whichever drive
has most room).

Until TWC fixes it, eSATA is a non-starter for me....

Didn't Maxtor (wasn't there another one, maybe WD?) do the same thing, offer a drive/enclosure combo that they specifically marketed as a DVR expander... and didn't they also kind of let it die as a category?

Indeed, as I said, DIY can be problematic, but very doable if you have done such things before. Still one can rig up a 250G drive and a case for 80-90 bucks by careful shopping.

Still, if for no other reason than simplicity, ya can't beat just a cable from the SATA connector on the drive to a straight through connector in the case. :p

Or 100% I appreciate the engineering simplicity of it. Still, I also always think of flexibility. Not so much for me, I've had raw drives in my hands for over 20 years, but I'd still go with a dual interface drive for the less technically inclined.

Actually, I'm lobbying Apple to start adding eSATA connectors on it's boxes. If they go for that in a big way, won't be too long before the commodity guys like Dull pick up on it.

Or 100% I appreciate the engineering simplicity of it. Still, I also always think of flexibility. Not so much for me, I've had raw drives in my hands for over 20 years, but I'd still go with a dual interface drive for the less technically inclined.
Yes, indeed that is a very good point. And the consensus is (now) that dual interface enclosures carry no higher failure rate than (somewhat more difficult to find) eSATA-only designs. If that's the case :D , there's no downside and only upside to them.

Didn't Maxtor (wasn't there another one, maybe WD?) do the same thing, offer a drive/enclosure combo that they specifically marketed as a DVR expander... and didn't they also kind of let it die as a category?
If it died, Seagate "let it die" after purchasing Maxtor. Seagate has it's own line of drives optimized for streaming video and perhaps Maxtor's was not needed. I don't think I would have abandoned the Quickview brand so quickly. DB35 Series just does not roll off the tongue as easy nor intuitively describe the underlying product line as Quickview.

Didn't Maxtor (wasn't there another one, maybe WD?) do the same thing, offer a drive/enclosure combo that they specifically marketed as a DVR expander... and didn't they also kind of let it die as a category?

Indeed, as I said, DIY can be problematic, but very doable if you have done such things before. Still one can rig up a 250G drive and a case for 80-90 bucks by careful shopping.

I'm not so sure about that. I checked Weaknees (http://www.weaknees.com/maxtor-quickview-expander-qvx.php) today in response to someone on our local HDTV site and found that the Maxtor line is still available and has been expanded to 400GB and 500GB models. I had checked there a few months ago and found the two drives that they had listed were backordered.

I'm not so sure about that. I checked Weaknees (http://www.weaknees.com/maxtor-quickview-expander-qvx.php) today in response to someone on our local HDTV site and found that the Maxtor line is still available and has been expanded to 400GB and 500GB models. I had checked there a few months ago and found the two drives that they had listed were backordered.
It's a bit confusing as their Quickview PDF (http://www.weaknees.com/pdf/datasheet_quickview_105g.pdf) refers to drive from 40GB - 300GB, but yet they do list 400GB and 500GB Quickviews.

EDIT: After wading through a LOT of Weaknees pages on their DVR expansion offerings, I came up with this from their FAQ: What is the difference between the Maxtor QuickView Expander QVX drive and this Expander PLUS drive?
The Expander PLUS is assembled here at WeaKnees with Maxtor drive. Full warranty is through WeaKnees.

It is NOT a Maxtor product, it is a Weaknees product. From elsewhere on their site, I read that they now use Seagate DB35 drives. So I'd surmise that Maxtor's Quickview product have "died."

It's a bit confusing as their Quickview PDF (http://www.weaknees.com/pdf/datasheet_quickview_105g.pdf) refers to drive from 40GB - 300GB, but yet they do list 400GB and 500GB Quickviews.

EDIT: After wading through a LOT of Weaknees pages on their DVR expansion offerings, I came up with this from their FAQ: What is the difference between the Maxtor QuickView Expander QVX drive and this Expander PLUS drive?
The Expander PLUS is assembled here at WeaKnees with Maxtor drive. Full warranty is through WeaKnees.

It is NOT a Maxtor product, it is a Weaknees product. From elsewhere on their site, I read that they now use Seagate DB35 drives. So I'd surmise that Maxtor's Quickview product have "died."Good research! Again the conjecture earlier was that Maxtor/Seagate stopped manufacturing the product due to the cable companies lack of carrying through with active support for the product. Meantime, enterprising retailers (like Weeknees and Discount Technology) have offered pre-packaged solutions.

Didn't Maxtor (wasn't there another one, maybe WD?) do the same thing, offer a drive/enclosure combo that they specifically marketed as a DVR expander... and didn't they also kind of let it die as a category?

Indeed, as I said, DIY can be problematic, but very doable if you have done such things before. Still one can rig up a 250G drive and a case for 80-90 bucks by careful shopping.
I'm not so sure about that. I checked Weaknees (http://www.weaknees.com/maxtor-quickview-expander-qvx.php) today in response to someone on our local HDTV site and found that the Maxtor line is still available and has been expanded to 400GB and 500GB models. I had checked there a few months ago and found the two drives that they had listed were backordered.
YES! The SA approved and Maxtor packaged Quickview Expander Drive Kit is exactly the complete product that I bought and used for myself and many others with virtually ZERO problems over the last two years. They were purchased from Buy dot com as a Maxtor product (not a Weaknees or other companies pre-packaged solution). After the warranty expired, I opened up the case to find a solid enclosure attached to a PATA drive. So far, none of the installs I have done have failed, and only a few had any problems. Those problems were all related to the eSATA connection points and the stiff cable supplied and were fixed by better mounting locations and keeping the cables straight, thus removing the torque at the ends. They did cost more, but they work.

vegggas

Has anyone tried a 700G eSata drive with the 8300HD yet?

Thanks

FYI for anyone purchasing an Apricorn EZ BUS DTS eSATA enclosure. I ordered one from Newegg and received the version with both USB and eSATA ports. I installed my existing SATA drive into the enclosure (came from a Vantec Nexstar3 whose power supply failed) and plugged everything back into the SA 8300. Performed the typical power removal process but the 8300 would not see the drive at all which had me pretty worried. Tried the power removal several more times, checked connections, etc.

Anyway, long story short, this enclosure has a jumper inside on the PCB labeled J4. Mine came jumpered on pins 1&2 which is labeled "USB to 2 SATA HDDs" (whatever that means). Anyway, I switched it to jumper pins 2&3 which is labeled "SATA and USB for 1 SATA HDD". Plugged the whole mess in again and it's working properly now.

I searched the forum but did not find any reference to this so I figured I'd share my experience in case someone trips over the same issue.

Take care,

Drivie
Chances are, all you would have had to do with everything connected. was to power off and back on the Apricorn drive. The 8300 would have recognized and way you'd go. It's such a simple solution to what first appears to be a big deal - thinking a particular enclosure/HD combo isn't 8300 friendly. It has worked for me on more than one occasion.

Hi All,

I'm trying to use the WD Caviar 320gb (WD3200KS) and an AZiO case (ENC311SU31).

The cable box will boot up and ask if I want to format the drive. I hit 'A' for Yes and the drive spins up but it never seems to finish. I've let it run for 1 hour to overnight.

When I go into the 'Status' screen I can see that the box see's the drive (only as 298gb instead of 320gb) and it even seems to identify the brand and such. I can't tell you how many times I've rebooted today while trying to work this out.

My box is running SARA 1.88.25.1 with a date of 11/9/06.

Can anybody think of something I'm not doing or can do to make this work?

I'm tempted to try another enclosure.

Thanks.

David

I have a Maxtor Quickview (believe it came from Weaknees) hard drive and want to hook it up to my PC just for some temporary external storage. I have a PCI Express to SATA II eSATA One Port Controller Card that the PC see's but when I plug in the Quickview it does not see the drive (I do here that sound played when you hot plug a USB device).
I have also tried booting with it already plugged in and still can't see the drive.
Any ideas?

(Came into this drive from a friend, will use it as a back up to my current extranal DVR drive but for now need quick external drive storage for the pc)

Thanks

Hi All,

I'm trying to use the WD Caviar 320gb (WD3200KS) and an AZiO case (ENC311SU31).

The cable box will boot up and ask if I want to format the drive. I hit 'A' for Yes and the drive spins up but it never seems to finish. I've let it run for 1 hour to overnight.

When I go into the 'Status' screen I can see that the box see's the drive (only as 298gb instead of 320gb) and it even seems to identify the brand and such. I can't tell you how many times I've rebooted today while trying to work this out.

My box is running SARA 1.88.25.1 with a date of 11/9/06.

Can anybody think of something I'm not doing or can do to make this work?

I'm tempted to try another enclosure.

Thanks.

David
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070323052347AAqGevp

I have a Maxtor Quickview (believe it came from Weaknees) hard drive and want to hook it up to my PC just for some temporary external storage. I have a PCI Express to SATA II eSATA One Port Controller Card that the PC see's but when I plug in the Quickview it does not see the drive (I do here that sound played when you hot plug a USB device).
I have also tried booting with it already plugged in and still can't see the drive.
Any ideas?
Windows XP? If so, go to Start|Control Panel|Administrative Tools|Computer Management. Double-click on Storage and then double-click on Disk Management. Look at the drives listed; do you see one that is not formatted?

Thanks xnappo, I thought that might be the case. I wasn't too worried about the 22gb I just wanted to give accurate info.

Any thoughts on getting the drive to finish formatting?

Thanks,

David

Thanks xnappo, I thought that might be the case. I wasn't too worried about the 22gb I just wanted to give accurate info.

Any thoughts on getting the drive to finish formatting?

Thanks,

David

It formats almost instantly. I think you are up and running. Does your free space show the expected percentage?

You should try a stress test to make sure it is working well. Record two shows in HD while playing one back and look for glitches. You will probably hear your new drives clicking quite a bit during this test which will tell you for sure it is working.

xnappo

It formats almost instantly. I think you are up and running. Does your free space show the expected percentage?

The space available doesn't change.

When I go into the 'Status' page I see the second drive but it has no partition and no space available. :confused:

Thanks.

The space available doesn't change.

When I go into the 'Status' page I see the second drive but it has no partition and no space available. :confused:

Thanks.

Do another power cycle(unplug the cord). Hopefully it will then come up with a screen saying the harddrive is ready to use. Sorry - should have told you that before, I didn't realize there was no free space in diags.

If that doesn't work all I can think to do is try formatting on a computer just to wipe it so you can try again. It never gives any kind of format complete message - so just wait 5 minutes or so to be safe. When you reboot though - you should get a message saying it is ready to use.

xnappo

Has anyone tried a "lower performance" drive in an external enclosure and had it work properly? I haven't read through all 150 pages of the thread ;), but I'm looking to buy a shiny new drive to replace one of my gaming PC's older drives (a 250GB Western Digital Caviar 7200RPM 2MB cache PATA drive), and then toss the 250GB into the enclosure for the 8300HD to use. Would this work, or is it likely to be far too slow? I don't know how critical performance is to this machine, though I assume that since I can record HD to it now using an HDhomerun through my computer's PVR software (SageTV), that it would be fit for this task. Am I correct :)?


Anyone?

Windows XP? ... Look at the drives listed; do you see one that is not formatted?

Yup, XP and thanks I'll give it a try tonight.

Anyone?

It might work, it might not. There isn't anyone that I have seen since beginning to follow this thread how has tried this exact combination. It isn't like the cases are expensive - why not just try it?

xnappo

I subscribe to Everest in KC and have the 8300HD. I was getting ready to buy a SATA drive to expand my DVR and I called Everest, per the Scientific Atlanta user guide to see if they had a "recommended list of hard drives." Turns out Everest didn't "buy the license" to use the expandable port and supposedly mine won't work. Before I go dropping a couple hundred bucks on something I don't need. Does anyone have any experience with this situation? Has anyone seen any kind of "hack" to get around the license? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I subscribe to Everest in KC and have the 8300HD. I was getting ready to buy a SATA drive to expand my DVR and I called Everest, per the Scientific Atlanta user guide to see if they had a "recommended list of hard drives." Turns out Everest didn't "buy the license" to use the expandable port and supposedly mine won't work. Before I go dropping a couple hundred bucks on something I don't need. Does anyone have any experience with this situation? Has anyone seen any kind of "hack" to get around the license? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
This entire thread is a hack, read it.. There are no cable companies that support or use the eSATA port and none of them will tell you of any approved devices that they can use.
Read the thread and Good luck. There are no right answers.

vegggas

I subscribe to Everest in KC and have the 8300HD. I was getting ready to buy a SATA drive to expand my DVR and I called Everest, per the Scientific Atlanta user guide to see if they had a "recommended list of hard drives." Turns out Everest didn't "buy the license" to use the expandable port and supposedly mine won't work. Before I go dropping a couple hundred bucks on something I don't need. Does anyone have any experience with this situation? Has anyone seen any kind of "hack" to get around the license? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I can't promise you this, but I think you were fed a line of bull. No one on this thread has ever reported that they had any sort of license issue.

Regards,
xnappo

I subscribe to Everest in KC and have the 8300HD. I was getting ready to buy a SATA drive to expand my DVR and I called Everest, per the Scientific Atlanta user guide to see if they had a "recommended list of hard drives." Turns out Everest didn't "buy the license" to use the expandable port and supposedly mine won't work.
If anything, that is a creative answer. :rolleyes:

Alright...thanks .... I kinda figured it was a line of crap, but figured I'd ask before I dumped a couple hundy on a drive that I couldn't use. Thanks again.

Yup, XP and thanks I'll give it a try tonight.
In case you are not aware, every time you "re-purpose" this drive between PC and DVR, you will lose whatever is on it.

I am following up on my previous post. I was trying to connect a WD Premium My Book ES 500GB usb/esata hard drive to my 8300HD. I live in Lincoln, NE and we are a testbed for the new navagator software. I was unable to get it working. I sent a email to time warner and the representative called me back the next day or so. Long story short he said that currently esata is not supported. Right away he mentioned you cant disconnect the drive and copy stuff to your computer. I told him all I was looking to do was to add extra storage. He said until they fix all the more pressing issues. Aka slow menus, lockups, and all the missing features they will not look at supporting esata. He did not rule it out in the future. Oh well. Then again still waiting on all the features they are suppose to add back. I imagine this will go on until at least the end of the year.

Long story short he said that currently esata is not supported.

This is interesting because this guy says it works:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9279739&&#post9279739

I think a LOT of people here are going to be seriously irritated if this is true.

xnappo

It might work, it might not. There isn't anyone that I have seen since beginning to follow this thread how has tried this exact combination. It isn't like the cases are expensive - why not just try it?

xnappo


A) I don't have the box (SA8300HD) yet.

B) The drive has data on it that I don't want to back up to a bundle of DVD's if I'm going to have to get a new drive anyway.


I broke down and ordered a 500GB Maxtor (7H500F0 model) today for $110 shipped from Outpost/Frys :). I also ordered a new eSATA enclosure from Newegg for about $23 shipped, which someone in the database had reported as working well with this drive :D.

When I was at CompUSA, I was looking for a External SATA drive and I asked the Manager. He said they don't make them and that they are only for internal use.

People crack me up sometimes. No wonder CompUSA is going under.

In case you are not aware, every time you "re-purpose" this drive between PC and DVR, you will lose whatever is on it.

Understood, thanks for you help it works.

When I was at CompUSA, I was looking for a External SATA drive and I asked the Manager. He said they don't make them and that they are only for internal use.

People crack me up sometimes. No wonder CompUSA is going under.

Especially since I bought my Seagate eSATA drive (already with an enclosure) at CompUSA.

Rich N.

Guys - First and foremost... thanks to all for creating and contributing to such a great line of discussion.

I am a cablevision subscriber in NJ and plan on adding the following external setup based on recommendations from the site and SARA database:

Apricorn (SATA only) Enclosure
Western Digital Caviar 7200 WD5000KSRTL (500GB) Drive (if you have recommendations for a larger drive let me know).

More importantly, I scanned the diagnostic screens and noticed some wacky warnings/errors on the SARA diagnostic screen. Can anyone tell me if the information in this screen is a make or break item for adding the external drive?

Pict of SARA Diagnostic Screen - Image (http://picasaweb.google.com/brigont/8300SaraWarnings/photo#5047356431011039186)

Any advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Brian G

Those warnings mean nothing to the end user and are not critical to operation.

vegggas

Guys,

I noticed that Apricorn (the enclosure of choice) has packaged a Rig that includes the DVR Xpander, a 250 or 500 gig drive, and cables. Here is the link:

Apricorn Xpander with drive (http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?other_info=reviews&id=37&type=family&anc=#bottom)

$199 is not bad for a plug and play solution - they also have a 14 day return policy if it does not work.

I checked the thread to see if anyone is recommending/warning based on the product ID (none listed).

Is anyone using the ADVRX-500 and do you recommend?

Thanks

Brian

Those warnings mean nothing to the end user and are not critical to operation.

vegggas


Thanks vegggas

When I was at CompUSA, I was looking for a External SATA drive and I asked the Manager. He said they don't make them and that they are only for internal use.

People crack me up sometimes. No wonder CompUSA is going under.


Internal Use? - Like a Suppository :eek:

Guys,

I noticed that Apricorn (the enclosure of choice) has packaged a Rig that includes the DVR Xpander, a 250 or 500 gig drive, and cables. Here is the link:

Apricorn Xpander with drive (http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?other_info=reviews&id=37&type=family&anc=#bottom)

$199 is not bad for a plug and play solution - they also have a 14 day return policy if it does not work.

I checked the thread to see if anyone is recommending/warning based on the product ID (none listed).

Is anyone using the ADVRX-500 and do you recommend?

Thanks

Brian

Wow! That's fantastic! $199 delivered for a guaranteed 500gig box is a sweet price! I already built a setup with this enclosure and the Western Digital Caviar 7200 WD5000KSRTL , but paid about the same, after rebate for it!

Much easier this way!
Good find!

Eph

Called apricorn and the tech guys say the xpander has a WD 500 gig drive so I am ordering one.

I'll post the results.

Brian

I can't believe I've already nearly filled a 500GB expansion drive with HD movies, but I have. Which means I've got to swap it out with a new drive. And I know we've touched on the procedures for this from time to time, but I've not been able to search out the answers - this thread is too large now. And I've kind of forgotten how I did it the first time. So, at the risk of having cyber-rocks thrown at me, can we go over the proper connect and power up/down procedures again for Passport users? Might be useful for newbies too.

This is how I think it goes... to attach an expansion drive:

1) "Turn off" the 8300 and pull the power plug.
2) Attach the expansion drive (connect the eSATA cable) w/ the power to the enclosure turned off.
3) Turn on the power to the expansion drive enclosure.
4) Plug back in the 8300 and let it boot up. When it boots, it will recognize the expansion drive and we're off and running.

To detach an expansion drive:

1) Turn off the 8300 and pull the power plug.
2) Turn off the power to the expansion drive enclosure.
2) Disconnect the expansion drive (pull the eSATA cable out from the 8300).
4) Plug the 8300 back in, turn it back on, and watch something. Or not.

So, is that correct? Have I messed up a step somewhere? You know, it wouldn't be a bad idea if we could get this info on the first page/post somehow... it's kind of critical to anyone looking to do this and it's hard to find (at least it was for me).

Second issue is what is going to happen if I hook up a new drive, record some stuff, then take it out and re-connect this almost-filled drive. Will the 8300 program list I've got now immediately restore/rebuild itself? I realize it's a good idea to write down all the programs I've got recorded before I yank the drive, and then check the list, and by process of elimination determine what programs are resident on the expansion drive. But I'm not sure what will happen when I reconnect it.

Thanks for your patience. If I can get these questions answered, I'll print 'em out and never have to ask them again. But it would be a good idea to get the power-up/down procedures on the first page, I think.

Wow! That's fantastic! $199 delivered for a guaranteed 500gig box is a sweet price! I already built a setup with this enclosure and the Western Digital Caviar 7200 WD5000KSRTL , but paid about the same, after rebate for it!

Much easier this way!
Good find!

Eph


It's not really that good a price... I ordered a $20 shipped enclosure (eSATA) and 500GB Maxtor 7H500F0 for $110 shipped, for a $130 total to give myself the exact same capacity at a $130 total. Both the enclosure and drive are listed as working together by users on the compatibility list. The "pre-done" version of this is simply not worth the 5 minutes of putting it together, for $70 cost. I don't know where you bought your drive (I got my drive from frys.com, and enclosure from newegg.com), but you must have way overpaid unless it was awhile back, in which case your comparison makes no sense. Plus, I know I have a 5-year warranty from Maxtor directly which will give me good customer service and quick turnaround if anything happens with the drive.

archiguy,

I thought PASSPORT required a "hot-plug" for the attachment phase.

Here is somewhat of a description from Meteor: Post #4168 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9675649&&#post9675649). I would have thought that the detachment phase would be a complete shutdown of both systems.

I usually find more relevant results with Google appending site:avsforum.com, but I did not look further to find the other eSATA swappers.

v/r,
C-F
Who lost PASSPORT for SARA, but no time for much TV here anyway.

archiguy,

I thought PASSPORT required a "hot-plug" for the attachment phase.

Here is somewhat of a description from Meteor: Post #4168 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9675649&&#post9675649). I would have thought that the detachment phase would be a complete shutdown of both systems.

I usually find more relevant results with Google appending site:avsforum.com, but I did not look further to find the other eSATA swappers.
You are right on both accounts. And "swappers" are asking for trouble.

The url you give seems to be dead. I have the SATA drive and the enclosure but it doesn't seem to work without the proper cable. Can someone recommend a place to get it????

Thanks
Greg

Help!!

I have the drive and enclosure but the link you give to order the cable is dead. Does anyone know where the cable can be ordered???


Thanks
Greg

Can someone tell me where else to get the cable?? The link provided doesn't seem to exist.

Greg

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&q=eSATA+to+SATA+cable

It's not really that good a price... I ordered a $20 shipped enclosure (eSATA) and 500GB Maxtor 7H500F0 for $110 shipped, for a $130 total to give myself the exact same capacity at a $130 total. Both the enclosure and drive are listed as working together by users on the compatibility list. The "pre-done" version of this is simply not worth the 5 minutes of putting it together, for $70 cost. I don't know where you bought your drive (I got my drive from frys.com, and enclosure from newegg.com), but you must have way overpaid unless it was awhile back, in which case your comparison makes no sense. Plus, I know I have a 5-year warranty from Maxtor directly which will give me good customer service and quick turnaround if anything happens with the drive.

The WD5000KSRTL, which I believe has the most "user successes" in the database, is a more expensive drive:

link (http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__WD_Caviar_SE16_500GB_Hard_Drive,__19525593/search=WD5000KSRTL)

If your system works for $70 less, that's great!

Eph

archiguy,

I thought PASSPORT required a "hot-plug" for the attachment phase.

Here is somewhat of a description from Meteor: Post #4168 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9675649&&#post9675649). I would have thought that the detachment phase would be a complete shutdown of both systems.


Well, that's what I'm trying to find out. Actually, I don't think I'll be swapping out the drive with a new one anytime soon (although that's a possibility before too much longer - I am running out of space). But I do need to power down the external drive to try to disconnect the fan (it's the Apricorn enclosure) and then get it back up and running with nothing squirrely happening to the data. I was just trying to get the procedural sequence down correctly, both ways. Hope someone helps with that.

Well, that's what I'm trying to find out. Actually, I don't think I'll be swapping out the drive with a new one anytime soon (although that's a possibility before too much longer - I am running out of space). But I do need to power down the external drive to try to disconnect the fan (it's the Apricorn enclosure) and then get it back up and running with nothing squirrely happening to the data. I was just trying to get the procedural sequence down correctly, both ways. Hope someone helps with that.
Turn the 8300HD off at it's power button, then remove AC ("electric power" for those of you in Rio Linda). Now power down your external drive and disconnect it. Follow the reverse procedure for getting back in operation, though you *may* need to hot-plug the (running) external drive.

Full disclosure: This has always worked for me, but I believe I remember it NOT working for one member who LOST all recorded content.

Thanks for the help Canon Fodder but I'm not exactly sure which cable to use. Doesn't it have to be eSATA to SATA II ? Or will a straight SATA II cable work?

Thanks again in advance!

Greg

Thanks for the help Canon Fodder but I'm not exactly sure which cable to use. Doesn't it have to be eSATA to SATA II ? Or will a straight SATA II cable work?

Thanks again in advance!
You are confusing - many, many people do it - Serial ATA (SATA) standards with SATA connectors. "eSATA" is the connector now used for external connections. The 8300HD has an eSATA connector. Most external enclosures now have an eSATA connector. I say "most" because before the eSATA connector was put into the standard, manufacturers used the internal SATA connector externally. The cable you need is determined by the gear you are connecting.

Thanks for the help Canon Fodder but I'm not exactly sure which cable to use. Doesn't it have to be eSATA to SATA II ? Or will a straight SATA II cable work?

Thanks again in advance!

Greg
eSATA and SATA-II connectors are the same. People have also started to refer to them as type "L" (the original SATA) and type "I" (eSATA or SATA-II). These denote the shape of the connector keyed slot, and is an easy way to tell the difference.

The 8300 needs the eSTAT (SATA-II or Type "I") connector, the other end of the cable depends on your drive or enclosure.

eSATA and SATA-II connectors are the same. People have also started to refer to them as type "L" (the original SATA) and type "I" (eSATA or SATA-II). These denote the shape of the connector keyed slot, and is an easy way to tell the difference.

The 8300 needs the eSTAT (SATA-II or Type "I") connector, the other end of the cable depends on your drive or enclosure.
I guess it's become common usage that eSATA (the connector) and SATA-II (the standard) are interchangeable. It is not correct, but it's past the point of it ever being straightened out.

This SATA Backgrounder (http://www.peparsplace.com/SATA-IO_Backgrounder.pdf) explains it.

I added a 320GB Western Digital drive last week in the Azio enclosure recommended by several people and it appeared to work at first, but I ended up with mostly partial recordings. One-hour shows would only be 17 minutes long, etc. I replaced that drive with a 200GB Samsung I pulled from an old PC, and it's worked flawlessly so far. Recorded 20 HD & SD shows on my 8300HD over the last 2 days and didn't get one partial recording.

Here's the info on the Samsung Drive:
Samsung SpinPoint P SP2004C 200GB Serial ATA 7200RPM Hard Drive w/8MB Buffer

Enclosure:
AZIO ENC311SU41 3.5in USB 2.0/eSATA Aluminum External Hard Drive Enclosure Retail

The WD drive that didn't work was a WD3200JD—60KLB0

Thanks to everyone for figuring out how to do the upgrade.

eSATA and SATA-II connectors are the same. People have also started to refer to them as type "L" (the original SATA) and type "I" (eSATA or SATA-II). These denote the shape of the connector keyed slot, and is an easy way to tell the difference.

The 8300 needs the eSTAT (SATA-II or Type "I") connector, the other end of the cable depends on your drive or enclosure.

Odd, when I went and researched this (long before 8300 external drives were even an issue) I NEVER saw SATA II used as a reference to an external SATA connector. It makes absolutely NO sense to refer to it as SATA II, both connector types support SATA I or II drives. Using a term meant to denote transfer speed for a connector type sure seems to serve to confuse folks even further.

Odd, when I went and researched this (long before 8300 external drives were even an issue) I NEVER saw SATA II used as a reference to an external SATA connector. It makes absolutely NO sense to refer to it as SATA II, both connector types support SATA I or II drives. Using a term meant to denote transfer speed for a connector type sure seems to serve to confuse folks even further.
If you go to the SATA IO ORG site, they make it a point to say that SATA II does NOT mean 3GBps.

Dispelling the Confusion: SATA II does not mean 3Gb/s (http://www.sata-io.org/namingguidelines.asp)

Even "we" are confused. :)

I guess it's become common usage that eSATA (the connector) and SATA-II (the standard) are interchangeable. It is not correct, but it's past the point of it ever being straightened out.

This SATA Backgrounder (http://www.peparsplace.com/SATA-IO_Backgrounder.pdf) explains it.

Exactly where has confusing a i/o spec with a connector type become "common usage?" They simply are NOT the same thing. Except for this thread, I have never seen them referred to that way.

Sorry, but it bugs the **** out of me when technology terms are completely misused, I always thought it was a kind of role of those who really understood the technology to guide the on-technical to use the correct terms. Next we'll have the cable itself referred to as SATA II!

If you go to the SATA IO ORG site, they make it a point to say that SATA II does NOT mean 3GBps.

Dispelling the Confusion: SATA II does not mean 3Gb/s (http://www.sata-io.org/namingguidelines.asp)

Even "we" are confused. :)

Interesting, that's the first time I saw that. 100% the whole industry has been referring SATA II to the "3Gb/s" speed for the past 4 years or so. So I'd say this very much IS "common usage."

Nevertheless, I think we should all agree to use the term eSATA to refer to the connector. As we can see from the link you found, SATA II should ONLY refer to the group setting these standards, AND it seems they decided to change their name... so they say SATA II should ONLY be used to point to their original group name. Good find pepar!

Turn the 8300HD off at it's power button, then remove AC ("electric power" for those of you in Rio Linda). Now power down your external drive and disconnect it. Follow the reverse procedure for getting back in operation, though you *may* need to hot-plug the (running) external drive.

In other words, the external drive should never be either attached to, nor disconnected from, a powered-up 8300 DVR. Always pull the power plug before making, or breaking, that connection. Likewise, the external drive should be running when the eSATA connection is made to the 8300, even though the 8300 will not have A/C power at the time. That about right?

Full disclosure: This has always worked for me, but I believe I remember it NOT working for one member who LOST all recorded content.

ARRRRRRRGGHHHHH!!!

The WD5000KSRTL, which I believe has the most "user successes" in the database, is a more expensive drive:

link (http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__WD_Caviar_SE16_500GB_Hard_Drive,__19525593/search=WD5000KSRTL)

If your system works for $70 less, that's great!

Eph


It's not much more expensive:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=101258&prodlist=froogle

$133 shipped (same warranty) without the shiny box. That plus my $20 enclosure still comes out far cheaper. Pre-built devices rarely are a better deal than what you can put together yourself quickly/easily in the computer world ;). P.S. more expensive doesn't mean better :rolleyes: .

Interesting, that's the first time I saw that. 100% the whole industry has been referring SATA II to the "3Gb/s" speed for the past 4 years or so. So I'd say this very much IS "common usage."

Nevertheless, I think we should all agree to use the term eSATA to refer to the connector. As we can see from the link you found, SATA II should ONLY refer to the group setting these standards, AND it seems they decided to change their name... so they say SATA II should ONLY be used to point to their original group name. Good find pepar!If you guys (you Riverside_Guy, and you Pepar) go back to the first few pages of this thread (and don't you think that folks should always start reading a thread by reading the first few pages to see what it it all about?), you will see that the connector used by the 8300 was ONLY referred to as a SATA-II and that the prints posted by Cruz systems (the original supplier of the cable used for this application) clearly referred to SATA-II. Now, I'm pretty sure that was because this was early in the game, and at the time the "official" name of eSATA (or whatever it is) had yet to be coined. So, correct, or not, my post attempted to point out how these different terms for the CONNECTOR have been used, in an attempt (which you guys are trying to shoot down) to clarify the CONNECTOR naming confusion.

Yes, SATA-II does have other electrical connotations - but for people simply trying to find the correct cable to plug into their 8300 what is wrong with trying to focus on the physical connector (ie: original SATA conector will not fit in the 8300)?

If you guys (you Riverside_Guy, and you Pepar) go back to the first few pages of this thread (and don't you think that folks should always start reading a thread by reading the first few pages to see what it it all about?), you will see that the connector used by the 8300 was ONLY referred to as a SATA-II and that the prints posted by Cruz systems (the original supplier of the cable used for this application) clearly referred to SATA-II. Now, I'm pretty sure that was because this was early in the game, and at the time the "official" name of eSATA (or whatever it is) had yet to be coined. So, correct, or not, my post attempted to point out how these different terms for the CONNECTOR have been used, in an attempt (which you guys are trying to shoot down) to clarify the CONNECTOR naming confusion.

Yes, SATA-II does have other electrical connotations - but for people simply trying to find the correct cable to plug into their 8300 what is wrong with trying to focus on the physical connector (ie: original SATA conector will not fit in the 8300)?
You've got a PM. :)

You've got a PM. :)Which says:
I was going to reply in the thread and then I was going to PM you, then I was going to post and now I'm back to PM'ing. Couldn't decide whether it would seem like I'm flaming you or not. So, here goes: Dave, You *always* point back to that first post when this comes up. If the organization that wrote the standards says it's wrong, how does a very early mis-use constitute grounds for perpetuating the mis-use?
I recognize this (and it is clear that you do too), but the fact that early on, those of us that were active here only had "SATA-II" to refer to (in regards to the connector). So, IF someone goes to the beginning of this thread (as, I'm sure you will agree, they should) there needs to be clarification of the initial use of SATA-II (and provide linkage to eSATA and Type "I"). That's why I *always* point back there (and as long as those pages exist, always will).

Let's not drag this out:
1) Your post agrees ("I guess it's become common usage that eSATA (the connector) and SATA-II (the standard) are interchangeable. It is not correct, but it's past the point of it ever being straightened out.").

2) The SATA link you provided does not clarify it (largely because it does not really address it).

Do we agree?

PS: I was active in this (had my external drive) long before "eSATA" (not the "e.SATA") came into use(been almost 2 years now). I helped 15 people here in Rochester get their external drives going with SATA-I to SATA-II cables (from Cruz).

In other words, the external drive should never be either attached to, nor disconnected from, a powered-up 8300 DVR. Always pull the power plug before making, or breaking, that connection. Likewise, the external drive should be running when the eSATA connection is made to the 8300, even though the 8300 will not have A/C power at the time. That about right?
:confused:

With both 8300HD and external drive ON, turn the 8300HD OFF, remove AC power from the 8300HD and then power down and disconnect the external drive. Follow the reverse procedure after you've moved the box, cleaned the shelf or whatever you were going to do that required it to be disconnected in the first place. Some have just "re-hot-plugged" the drive to the 8300HD to get back up and running. I've never tried it that way myself.

Thanks, I *thought* the "P" in "PM" was for "private."

Let's not drag this out
Too late.

I recognize this (and it is clear that you do too), but the fact that early on, those of us that were active here only had "SATA-II" to refer to (in regards to the connector). So, IF someone goes to the beginning of this thread (as, I'm sure you will agree, they should) there needs to be clarification of the initial use of SATA-II (and provide linkage to eSATA and Type "I"). That's why I *always* point back there (and as long as those pages exist, always will).

1) Your post agrees ("I guess it's become common usage that eSATA (the connector) and SATA-II (the standard) are interchangeable. It is not correct, but it's past the point of it ever being straightened out.").

2) The SATA link you provided does not clarify it (largely because it does not really address it).

Do we agree?
No, it may not clarify it (for you), but it does address it under the History of the Specification|Cables and Connectors|External consumer connection. Irregardless, eSATA is a connector and SATA II is a family of specifications among which is the eSATA connector. Continually referring to a misnomer, no matter how old it is, does not change the FACT that it's a misnomer. Just because that's "all you had" doesn't mean the correct terminology wasn't out there to be had. You are perpetuating the misnomer and therefore the confusion.

Or are you agreeing with me and somehow I missed it in the obliqueness of your post?

PS: I was active in this (had my external drive) long before "eSATA" (not the "e.SATA") came into use(been almost 2 years now). I helped 15 people here in Rochester get their external drives going with SATA-I to SATA-II cables (from Cruz).
Relevance? (I don't think points are given for being one of the first to use incorrect nomenclature.)

. . . SATA-I to SATA-II cables (from Cruz).
The Cruz link is dead, Cruz Systems no longer sells cables and Comax (the mfg of said cable) sells a "SATA external signal cable, eSATA signal lane cable" with nary a SATA I-to-SATA II cable to be found.

:confused:

With both 8300HD and external drive ON, turn the 8300HD OFF, remove AC power from the 8300HD and then power down and disconnect the external drive. Follow the reverse procedure after you've moved the box, cleaned the shelf or whatever you were going to do that required it to be disconnected in the first place. Some have just "re-hot-plugged" the drive to the 8300HD to get back up and running. I've never tried it that way myself.

Yeah, I got it now, thanks. What happens to the list/directory? If you connect a "clean" drive, will it still list the programs on the now-disconnected drive, or only those first ones that got placed on the internal drive? If you then begin to record programming on the new drive, will it build a new list as it goes? And then, if you replace the original drive with it's original programs, will the list/directory then get rebuilt with the original progamming listed, the same way you left it? Because, if it wouldn't, you'd never be able to find your programming on that drive again. And that would be sad. Yet ironic, because it would still be there, marooned forever, tantalizingly near, yet unobtainable. Oh, the humanity.

Yeah, I got it now, thanks. What happens to the list/directory? If you connect a "clean" drive, will it still list the programs on the now-disconnected drive, or only those first ones that got placed on the internal drive? If you then begin to record programming on the new drive, will it build a new list as it goes? And then, if you replace the original drive with it's original programs, will the list/directory then get rebuilt with the original progamming listed, the same way you left it? Because, if it wouldn't, you'd never be able to find your programming on that drive again. And that would be sad. Yet ironic, because it would still be there, marooned forever, tantalizingly near, yet unobtainable. Oh, the humanity.
I have never been curious/adventurous/(foolish?) enough to try to use multiple external drives. I have seen a post (or two) by those saying that they do swap drives, but I'm still skeptical. And I haven't seen anything recently. Supposedly, all recordings are listed with only those on the attached drive playable. That's puzzling, as rebuilding a list happens from what's presently "online." In fact, cold/hard rebooting is recommended as a way of "cleaning out" recorded content still listed, but erased. Perhaps multiple drive *can* be used if one rebuilds the list with every drive swap?

If you decide to try it, please post your results - good, bad or ugly. :D

All drive contents (internal and external) are stored on the internal drive and are read during the reboot to put them into ram. Replacing an external drive with a clean drive would still show the contents of the old drive, but you won't be able to play them. Deleting a show on a non-attached drive, will create an orphan, where all the references to the old show are deleted, but the space is still in use on the old drive, but not accessible. To clear those discrepancies, a format must be done.

vegggas

The problem I am having is that the drive is not recogized by the 8300HD. I have followed the steps outlined here, as well as in the Scientific Atlanta manual (http://www.cox.com/support/digitalcable/dvr/pdf/SA8300HD%20connects.pdf), and cannot get it to work. The enclosure works fine when I hook it up to my computer via SATA.

Questions:
The HDD can be jumpered between 1.5 Gbit/s and 3.0 Gbit/s; does it matter how I set the jumper?

Is it possible the eSATA to SATA cable could be bad?

Should I fork out money for a new enclosure or drive(that would be more compatible)?


These are the parts I used:

Enclosure: AMS Venus (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817145660)

HDD: Maxtor QuickView (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Maxtor/3H500F0/)

Cable: eSATA to SATA cable (http://www.satacables.com/html/sata_external_cables.html) it's the second cable down, part number SS-1ESS

Thanks in advance.

So, are we saying that even if the old external drive were removed and replaced by a clean drive, the old drive's contents still get displayed when you pull up the list? So they're basically "permanently" listed until physically erased by the user, no matter which drive is currently hooked up?

What then happens when you create new programming on the new drive? Do those programs then show up along with the others that are on the old external drive, as well as those on the internal drive? And then if you swap the old external drive back in, do the programs recently created on the new external drive still show up as well? This could get confusing. You'd have to keep your own lists to keep track of which shows are on which drive, if they all show up in the guide list until they're physically erased. But there's no theoretical reason why it couldn't continue to work that way, is there?

I guess I was thinking that the software just scanned both drives whenever the system is booted up and displays a list created by what it just found on the drives. This list thus exists in RAM memory. I'm still a little confused....

So, are we saying that even if the old external drive were removed and replaced by a clean drive, the old drive's contents still get displayed when you pull up the list? So they're basically "permanently" listed until physically erased by the user, no matter which drive is currently hooked up?

What then happens when you create new programming on the new drive? Do those programs then show up along with the others that are on the old external drive, as well as those on the internal drive? And then if you swap the old external drive back in, do the programs recently created on the new external drive still show up as well? This could get confusing. You'd have to keep your own lists to keep track of which shows are on which drive, if they all show up in the guide list until they're physically erased. But there's no theoretical reason why it couldn't continue to work that way, is there?

I guess I was thinking that the software just scanned both drives whenever the system is booted up and displays a list created by what it just found on the drives. This list thus exists in RAM memory. I'm still a little confused....
At some point I would think that the 8300HD would get confused as well. I'd guess there are pointers to recorded content - addresses. What happens when a show recorded on ext drive A is at the same address as a show on ext drive B?

At some point I would think that the 8300HD would get confused as well. I'd guess there are pointers to recorded content - addresses. What happens when a show recorded on ext drive A is at the same address as a show on ext drive B?

Couldn't possibly be at the exact same address, though, could it? What're the odds? Besides, I thought the file structure on HDD's was more intelligent than that. Looks for specific words, does it not?

Couldn't possibly be at the exact same address, though, could it? What're the odds? Besides, I thought the file structure on HDD's was more intelligent than that. Looks for specific words, does it not?
Hopefully, vegggas will chime in here on this, but the 8300HD doesn't know anything about multiple/swapping external drives. And at the drive controller level, accessing files is done by addresses and not by names. The same address? Could happen I would think. Rare, but possible.

http://www.peparsplace.com/assets/images/Ext_SATA_017.jpg

what is this screen and how do you get therE?

http://www.peparsplace.com/assets/images/Ext_SATA_017.jpg

what is this screen and how do you get therE?
That depends on the software your 8300HD is running. The two (that I am aware of) are Passport and SARA. If you are running Passport like I am, then this is how you get to the diagnostic screens:

"To get to the multi-page Diagnostics screen, simultaneously press and hold the front panel's SELECT and EXIT buttons till DIAGNO appears - BE PATIENT - then release the buttons, then press EXIT and the the box tunes itself to the multi-page Diagnostics channel. To exit press Ch + or Ch -"

You will need to scroll through the (many) screens until you get to the SATA screen.

If the above precedure doesn't work, you will need to do some research on your software and version. In fact, you should do that anyway and post the results in your sig like I and many others here have done.

Getting this error message:

The external recording device is not functioning properly. Check to make sure the power and data cables are plugged in properly.

8300HD using SARA

Getting this error message:

The external recording device is not functioning properly. Check to make sure the power and data cables are plugged in properly.

8300HD using SARA
SATA connections seem to be a bit dodgy. Re-check all of them, including the ones *inside* of your enclosure.

Getting this error message:

The external recording device is not functioning properly. Check to make sure the power and data cables are plugged in properly.

8300HD using SARA

What drive, what enclosure? (!)

xnappo

My Book, 500GB. The enclosure is EZ Bus DTS.

Guys,

Arguing this point is not worth the time.

At the moment the best we can say is adding a drive "should" work, there are no guarantees just a few hopeful examples of it working. For all we know, Cablevision will push an update tomorrow that will disable the esata port and we are all screwed.

For me, Apricorn's 14 day return policy is a guarantee I don't mind paying a few extra bucks for. I just plug it in and it will either work or not. If it fails in the future I call them up and they will fix/replace. Simple as that.

Now if you genius' can build an esata based raid with a few terrabytes of space AND a better interface for accessing content as the 8300's software is crap, let me know and I will buy it.

Brian

P.S. - Please do not mistake my capability - I can build PC's and wire home theater rooms... I just prefer to spending my time grilling NY Strips and drinking cold beer in my spare time... Enjoy guys.






It's not much more expensive:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=101258&prodlist=froogle

$133 shipped (same warranty) without the shiny box. That plus my $20 enclosure still comes out far cheaper. Pre-built devices rarely are a better deal than what you can put together yourself quickly/easily in the computer world ;). P.S. more expensive doesn't mean better :rolleyes: .

... I just prefer to spending my time grilling NY Strips and drinking cold beer in my spare time... Enjoy guys.
I've heard about those "NY Strips" and they sound like they're much more fun than building external drive assemblies. ;)

My Book, 500GB. The enclosure is EZ Bus DTS.

Only other person I know who tried a MyBook tried it on Navigator:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10143090&&#post10143090

Didn't work for him either. There aren't any entries in the database for this drive at all. If you can, I would try another drive (assuming you double checked the cables - also someone reported their Apricorn case having a jumper set incorrectly - make sure it is right. SEE THIS POST: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10091397&&#post10091397 ).

xnappo

Well ladies and gentlemen, I seem to have fixed the problem.

I went to a local electronics store chain and picked up a new SATA to eSATA cable this AM. Disconnect, reconnect, reboot, etc....Viola! I get the prompt to format the external device for use with the DVR, hit A.

Checked the diagnositc screens...the drive shows as device 2.

Okay, next I checked my recorded space, it went from 77% to 17%. Yes!

It feels good to have built something on my own and not have to rely on someone else.

I will take my NY Strip medium rare please.

Well ladies and gentlemen, I seem to have fixed the problem.

I went to a local electronics store chain and picked up a new SATA to eSATA cable this AM. Disconnect, reconnect, reboot, etc....Viola! I get the prompt to format the external device for use with the DVR, hit A.

Checked the diagnositc screens...the drive shows as device 2.

Okay, next I checked my recorded space, it went from 77% to 17%. Yes!

It feels good to have built something on my own and not have to rely on someone else.

I will take my NY Strip medium rare please.

Congrats! Database entry with comment about cable problem please :)

xnappo

I am going to monitor my setup for glitches and I will update the Database tonight.

Thanks pepar
It says its authorized so does that mean i'm cool to give this a shot?

when will my sig show up.
i finally made one.

After great consideration of the issue...

I retract my NY Strip reference for a 38 OZ. PORTERHOUSE

Unofficial AVS Steak Thread:

AVS Steak Thread (http://www.peterlugers.com/)

Enjoy!

Brian

P.S. - I will let you guys know how the boxed 500MB Apricorn Solution works out... Should be here in a day or two.

Thanks pepar
It says its authorized so does that mean i'm cool to give this a shot?
"Probably."

when will my sig show up.
i finally made one.
You've gone to User CP|Edit Signature, entered text for your sig and then clicked on Save Signature? If so, it should have been added to every post you've ever made and all posts going forward.

You've put your software/version and cable provider there? Let's get your sig showing and then we can better assist you in expanding your DVR storage capacity.

passport same version as yours and twc

I retract my NY Strip reference for a 38 OZ. PORTERHOUSE
Unofficial AVS Steak Thread:
AVS Steak Thread (http://www.peterlugers.com/)
If you happen to be in the neighborhood and you need a break from this Forum… check out this place. ;) It covers both of Brians’s choices—the strip and the porterhouse. :cool:
http://events.nytimes.com/2007/02/28/dining/reviews/28rest.html?em
Now back to the regularly scheduled hard drive discussions. :)

Only other person I know who tried a MyBook tried it on Navigator:

Didn't work for him either. There aren't any entries in the database for this drive at all. If you can, I would try another drive (assuming you double checked the cables - also someone reported their Apricorn case having a jumper set incorrectly - make sure it is right. SEE THIS POST: ).

xnappo

Okay, took the hard drive out of the my book casing and used the EZ Bus DTS casing. Plugged it in, the DVR asked to format, selected yes, and the screen went blank. Changed the channel and checked space used at 100%. Restarted the dvr, and space is now 22%, so it appears to be working. :)

passport same version as yours and twc
You're good to go then. Personally, I like drives designed and marketed for DVR expansion - Maxtor Quickview and Seagate DB35 Series. You should be able to use the 500GB size. There are two or three enclosures that are popular here and have high success rates. Got to DoubleDaz' summary post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8559304&&#post8559304) for some helpful information on drives, enclosures and expanding storage in general. It is SARA-centric (the "other" software), but I've not seen any drive/enclosure that works on SARA fail on Passport.

Full disclosure: The SATA port is not officially supported, so there is no absolute guarantee that you can attach an external drive. That said, I don't think I've seen anyone with 2.6.002 NOT get it working.

Chances are, all you would have had to do with everything connected. was to power off and back on the Apricorn drive. The 8300 would have recognized and way you'd go. It's such a simple solution to what first appears to be a big deal - thinking a particular enclosure/HD combo isn't 8300 friendly. It has worked for me on more than one occasion.

This is what I had to do with the Apricorn Xpander 500gb I purchased this week. I followed the instructions exactly that were supplied by Apricorn but the external drive Xpander would not recognize my 8300HD. I emailed tech support with no reply and even telephoned the 800 # (recorded message replied: support is unavailable at this time).
So, I decided to just power off and on the Apricorn Xpander. That did the trick. It displayed the format prompt and the drive formatted in about a minute.
Well, it's only been two days but so far so good. My 8300HD was full to it's capacity so this extra space the Xpander gave me was extremely welcome. Especially for HD content which sucks up so much HD space.
I decided to test it right off the bat. With my 8300HD DVR full I recorded about 8 hours of HD content on both tuners and it recorded everything and plays back fine.
I do have a question now for the forum. I always turn off my 8300HD cable box when it's not in use. Can I turn the Apricorn Xpander off when I have no recordings scheduled or will I get a prompt to format it when I RE-power it up as I did at the initial install?
I hope my experience can help someone.

This is what I had to do with the Apricorn Xpander 500gb I purchased this week. I followed the instructions exactly that were supplied by Apricorn but the external drive Xpander would not recognize my 8300HD. I emailed tech support with no reply and even telephoned the 800 # (recorded message replied: support is unavailable at this time).
So, I decided to just power off and on the Apricorn Xpander. That did the trick. It displayed the format prompt and the drive formatted in about a minute.
Well, it's only been two days but so far so good. My 8300HD was full to it's capacity so this extra space the Xpander gave me was extremely welcome. Especially for HD content which sucks up so much HD space.
I decided to test it right off the bat. With my 8300HD DVR full I recorded about 8 hours of HD content on both tuners and it recorded everything and plays back fine.
I do have a question now for the forum. I always turn off my 8300HD cable box when it's not in use. Can I turn the Apricorn Xpander off when I have no recordings scheduled or will I get a prompt to format it when I RE-power it up as I did at the initial install?
I hope my experience can help someone.
I'm sure that we all leave the external drive running 24/7/365 - I know I do. If the external drive "disappears" while the 8300HD is powered, you'll get alerts when turning the 8300HD on even if you power up the external drive before doing so. None of us want to chance losing our recordings, so we don't mess with it. Except for a power failure (or two), my external drive have been running continuously for about twenty months. :)

Okay, took the hard drive out of the my book casing and used the EZ Bus DTS casing. Plugged it in, the DVR asked to format, selected yes, and the screen went blank. Changed the channel and checked space used at 100%. Restarted the dvr, and space is now 22%, so it appears to be working. :)

Wow - so that is evidence the MyBook case does not work. This is good information to get into the database. Also it may be an indication that the report of Navigator not working may not be due to the software.

Glad it is working for you! Did you by chance note what kind of drive was in the case?

xnappo

Guys,

I got my Apricorn Xpander 500gb this morning.

I followed the instructions supplied by Apricorn. I got the original diag. screen that recognized the availability of the new drive and asked to format it.

I let the formatting run for an hour but never saw the "format complete" screen. I checked the drive availability and it stayed 99% full.

I decided to unplug and restarted the 8300 to try the format again. Once the restart was complete the formatted drive was recognized (no reformat needed).

Availability went from 99% full to 21% full...

I have not watched any programs to determine clipping or quality of the recordings... I will follow up in the next few days and give an update on record quality.

More to come.

Brian

Based on all of the helpful info that I gathered at this thread (and the SA 8300 HD Tips and Tricks thread) I had successfully connected a Maxtor QuickView Expander 300GB drive back in January (also added an entry to the thread's database at that time). My cable company is Comcast and we are currently running SARA 1.88.25.1.

My extended capacity was working great for several months and then over the last couple of weeks we started experiencing problems. Severe stuttering during certain recordings (thought that it was only happening while recording 2 concurrent HD broadcasts, but this has not been consistent). Certain recorded programs were also forcing the 8300HD to re-boot itself while watching the program and freezing on a frame. Checked the diagnostics and at some point the 8300HD box stopped seeing the external drive (the second partition was displaying 0 bytes). I then did a hard re-boot on the box and the the communication between the drive and the 8300HD was re-established.

Recordings have now been inconsistent and I have been trying to determine if :

1) The external drive is failing.

2) There is some type of data or file corruption on the external drive.

or

3) Something happened when Comcast rolled out the last update (1.88.22.1 =====> 1.88.25.1)


Does anyone have any ideas? Is there anything else that I may be able to try?
My priority at this point is to try to correct the problem rather than to try to save any shows on the drive.


Thanks again for any help that you can give me!

Marie

I've heard about those "NY Strips" and they sound like they're much more fun than building external drive assemblies. ;)

Arghhh, if you want a kick ass cut, go porterhouse! There used to be this butcher along a tiny 2 lane in CT where we used to get 2 1/2" porterhouses and grill them up, best meat I have ever bought raw and cooked.

Next time you're in NY, try Sparks and a sirloin. VERY expensive, but might be one of the best best streak experiences you may have!

Arghhh, if you want a kick ass cut, go porterhouse! There used to be this butcher along a tiny 2 lane in CT where we used to get 2 1/2" porterhouses and grill them up, best meat I have ever bought raw and cooked.

Next time you're in NY, try Sparks and a sirloin. VERY expensive, but might be one of the best best streak experiences you may have!
I was thinking more along the lines of the "strips" they serve at Scores . . . :)

After great consideration of the issue...

I retract my NY Strip reference for a 38 OZ. PORTERHOUSE

Unofficial AVS Steak Thread:

AVS Steak Thread (http://www.peterlugers.com/)

Enjoy!

Brian

P.S. - I will let you guys know how the boxed 500MB Apricorn Solution works out... Should be here in a day or two.

Ha, I read this AFTER I said to go porterhouse!

Never saw that cut in a restaurant, either.

Many years ago, the first time I went to Sparks, I found it curious the only cut they had was sirloin. BUT not like ANY sirloin I'd ever had, this was better than ANY filet or shell steak I ever had (except for my own flame grilled porterhouse). Unfortunately, their prices have skyrocketed recently.

Wow - so that is evidence the MyBook case does not work. This is good information to get into the database. Also it may be an indication that the report of Navigator not working may not be due to the software.

Glad it is working for you! Did you by chance note what kind of drive was in the case?

xnappo

No, I didn't, sorry. :(
Since it is working, I'd rather not take it out of the new enclosure.

Wow - so that is evidence the MyBook case does not work. This is good information to get into the database. Also it may be an indication that the report of Navigator not working may not be due to the software.

Glad it is working for you! Did you by chance note what kind of drive was in the case?

xnappoIf I am not mistaken, all My Books have Western Digital drives. I first heard about them when I was researching the possibility of external storage for the TiVo S3. Speculation was that you would be able to attach a My Book, but I don't think the SATA port on the S3 has been activated by TiVo at this time. I haven't bought an S3 yet, so I can't check it. However, if my 8300HD keeps rebooting spontaneously, and if TW doesn't get the SDV issue resolved, I may be buying two S3's in the near future! If those internal hard drives are as easy to upgrade as the Series 1's are, I won't have to worry about external storage--I'll just put a 750GB HD inside each S3 and be on the road again! :)

Scarlett

Just wanted to update this forum and thank those concerned for the very useful information.
I was using a 500 gb seagate with V1.87.16.1 and had problems. Instead of cobbling together another solution I bought a 300 gb from weaknees. Wouldnt you guess that it was a problem from the start. Since then my system upgraded to V1.89.18.1 and while waiting for weaknees to return the warranteed drive I have been using the seagate with very few problems.

Fast forward to getting the "repaired" 300gb drive back into use.......its not working well. I had misunderstood the warranty terms to be 6 months instead of the 30 day return for refund. Since Im not the only person wanting a plug and play solution I thought youd appreciate the troubles weaknees can be, its not a solution to Pandoras box. Im awaiting their reply as to whether they can apply some higher degree of fairness. It seems that at least in my case this isnt the route to go. :eek: :confused: :( :D :cool:

If I purchase a SATA HD enclosure with USB2.0, will I be able to connect to the SA8300 by using the USB port on its front panel as opposed to the SATA port on the back panel of the unit??

Is there a list of HDs that are acceptable to use and that works with the SA8300HD? + enclosures?

If I purchase a SATA HD enclosure with USB2.0, will I be able to connect to the SA8300 by using the USB port on its front panel as opposed to the SATA port on the back panel of the unit??

No.

Is there a list of HDs that are acceptable to use and that works with the SA8300HD? + enclosures?

Not guaranteed, but see my sig.

xnappo

If I am not mistaken, all My Books have Western Digital drives.

Yeah, I meant the model number :) I understand not wanting to open it again once it is working though!

I first heard about them when I was researching the possibility of external storage for the TiVo S3. Speculation was that you would be able to attach a My Book, but I don't think the SATA port on the S3 has been activated by TiVo at this time. I haven't bought an S3 yet, so I can't check it. However, if my 8300HD keeps rebooting spontaneously, and if TW doesn't get the SDV issue resolved, I may be buying two S3's in the near future! If those internal hard drives are as easy to upgrade as the Series 1's are, I won't have to worry about external storage--I'll just put a 750GB HD inside each S3 and be on the road again! :)

Uhh, won't that just make things much worse since you can't get any SDV channels at ALL with cable card? At least with the 8300 you can watch SDV even if recording isn't reliable.

Regards,
xnappo

No.



Not guaranteed, but see my sig.

xnappo

Do you have a link to an enclosure that works? Are there any documents that explain the SATA connector which is in the back panel of the SA8300HD? So, to summarize, I would need to purchase an enclosure that has a SATA connector which fits onto the back port of the unit? I am now looking to find out which enclosures come with said connectors. TIA.

I see the link that you've provided in your sig to be for various HD's that work/do not work with the SA8300HD. Nice.

Do you have a link to an enclosure that works? Are there any documents that explain the SATA connector which is in the back panel of the SA8300HD? So, to summarize, I would need to purchase an enclosure that has a SATA connector which fits onto the back port of the unit? I am now looking to find out which enclosures come with said connectors. TIA.

I see the link that you've provided in your sig to be for various HD's that work/do not work with the SA8300HD. Nice.

The database has cases too - third column. I think the rest of your questions are answered in the first few posts of this thread. Most cases come with the cable you need now. I recommend an Apricorn case.

xnappo

....Uhh, won't that just make things much worse since you can't get any SDV channels at ALL with cable card? At least with the 8300 you can watch SDV even if recording isn't reliable.

Regards,
xnappoWell, duh...I didn't know that! :o I guess we will just have to grin and bear it until TW gets the kinks out then. In the meantime, I will do some research on SDV--I really don't understand it at all. I just know that it has caused my husband a lot of annoyance. Thanks for pointing this out to me!

Scarlett

weaknees Is Not A Place Anyone Should Consider Buying A Drive From For Their Sa8300 Sara Hdv. Learn From My Experience, The 1st Drive From Them Was Bad Causing Tiling, Freezes Etc. The Next Was Not An Improvement. That Makes 2 Drives That Are Worthless For The Application.

The Worst Thing That Can Happen Is You Keep The Drive For Data Storage. The Best Is That You Eat A 15% Restocking Fee If Returned Within 30 Days. Buyer Beware.

I Hope Those Thinking Of A "solution" Will Appreciate My Comments.

Well, duh...I didn't know that! :o I guess we will just have to grin and bear it until TW gets the kinks out then. In the meantime, I will do some research on SDV--I really don't understand it at all. I just know that it has caused my husband a lot of annoyance. Thanks for pointing this out to me!

ScarlettBasically SDV is a variation of "on Demand". The cable box sends a signal to the local cable node (usually within a couple of miles of your house) that it wants to tune to a particular program, the node checks what QAM channels are available, picks one, and sends out the desired program on the available QAM. It should be fairly transparent to the viewer, unless there are not a sufficient number of local QAM channels available.

Basically SDV is a variation of "on Demand". The cable box sends a signal to the local cable node (usually within a couple of miles of your house) that it wants to tune to a particular program, the node checks what QAM channels are available, picks one, and sends out the desired program on the available QAM. It should be fairly transparent to the viewer, unless there are not a sufficient number of local QAM channels available.

The big difference between SDV and InDemand(from what I gather) is that the content is always going from the head end to the nodes, and the QAM is assigned at the node. This makes the operation much faster. I can't tell SDV channels from normal channels without looking at diags. There is no huge delay like there is with InDemand.

The problem we have in Austin(FYI) is that when you record and SDV channel somehow the request for the channel doesn't work right and you get the wrong channel on recordings (setup to record Speed, get MTV2). This never happens when manually tuning.

xnappp

The big difference between SDV and InDemand(from what I gather) is that the content is always going from the head end to the nodes, and the QAM is assigned at the node. This makes the operation much faster. I can't tell SDV channels from normal channels without looking at diags. There is no huge delay like there is with InDemand.

The problem we have in Austin(FYI) is that when you record and SDV channel somehow the request for the channel doesn't work right and you get the wrong channel on recordings (setup to record Speed, get MTV2). This never happens when manually tuning.

xnappp
This is why I record movies (and other shows) when they "air" and watch them when I want to from my DVR. I'll take MY InDemand any day. For me and my family, their InDemand does not move the ball forward.

The big difference between SDV and InDemand(from what I gather) is that the content is always going from the head end to the nodes, and the QAM is assigned at the node. This makes the operation much faster. I can't tell SDV channels from normal channels without looking at diags. There is no huge delay like there is with InDemand.

The problem we have in Austin(FYI) is that when you record and SDV channel somehow the request for the channel doesn't work right and you get the wrong channel on recordings (setup to record Speed, get MTV2). This never happens when manually tuning.

xnapppDo you know which hub you are on? David V. and I are on the same hub (33), and we are having the problems you describe. I assume that you are also, but is everyone in Austin having this problem? Is it because of TW's network design, or because the DVR can't handle the delay in response from the channel? We get truncated recordings, if we get anything at all, from the SDV channel we select--or, we get a completely different channel. I hope this is something that can be corrected. Even if you can watch an SDV channel, it sort of defeats the purpose of the DVR if you can't record and time shift that channel's programming. :)

Thanks to you and Dave for the crash course on SDV!

Scarlett

ok..so I purchased a Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT SATA Backup & External Storage System from ZipZoomFly

Now, I'm looking for a 500GB HD to fit in it but most of the one's that I see are already apart of a USB2.0 enclosure. Sorry for being such a noob, but that's not what I should be looking for to connect to the SA8300HD, right?

Any recommendations for 500GB HD's (preferably with links - or I could google it all the same)?

What does SARA stand for?

ok..so I purchased a Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT SATA Backup & External Storage System from ZipZoomFly

Now, I'm looking for a 500GB HD to fit in it but most of the one's that I see are already apart of a USB2.0 enclosure. Sorry for being such a noob, but that's not what I should be looking for to connect to the SA8300HD, right?

Any recommendations for 500GB HD's (preferably with links - or I could google it all the same)?No, you do not want to buy a USB external hard drive. I bought this drive: ST3500830SCE Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 - Consumer Electronics - internal Hard drive - 500GB - less than a month ago for $178.76 from TheNerds.net. You can buy it today for $157.76 from the same place! Here is the link:

http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page=productpage&pn=ST3500830SCE

This SATA drive has been used successfully with the 8300HD, has a 5-year warranty, and is one of those optimized for streaming A/V.

Good luck!

Scarlett

What does SARA stand for?
Scientific Atlanta Resident Application

What does SARA stand for?"Scientific Atlanta Resident Application."

It would be nice if you would add your location, cable provider, software and version in your signature. :)

Scarlett

Does anyone have any comments on my post below :confused: ? Any suggestions would be appreciated...... :) Thanks!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Based on all of the helpful info that I gathered at this thread (and the SA 8300 HD Tips and Tricks thread) I had successfully connected a Maxtor QuickView Expander 300GB drive back in January (also added an entry to the thread's database at that time). My cable company is Comcast and we are currently running SARA 1.88.25.1.

My extended capacity was working great for several months and then over the last couple of weeks we started experiencing problems. Severe stuttering during certain recordings (thought that it was only happening while recording 2 concurrent HD broadcasts, but this has not been consistent). Certain recorded programs were also forcing the 8300HD to re-boot itself while watching the program and freezing on a frame. Checked the diagnostics and at some point the 8300HD box stopped seeing the external drive (the second partition was displaying 0 bytes). I then did a hard re-boot on the box and the the communication between the drive and the 8300HD was re-established.

Recordings have now been inconsistent and I have been trying to determine if :

1) The external drive is failing.

2) There is some type of data or file corruption on the external drive.

or

3) Something happened when Comcast rolled out the last update (1.88.22.1 =====> 1.88.25.1)


Does anyone have any ideas? Is there anything else that I may be able to try?
My priority at this point is to try to correct the problem rather than to try to save any shows on the drive.


Thanks again for any help that you can give me!

Marie

Does anyone have any comments on my post below :confused: ? Any suggestions would be appreciated...... :) Thanks!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Based on all of the helpful info that I gathered at this thread (and the SA 8300 HD Tips and Tricks thread) I had successfully connected a Maxtor QuickView Expander 300GB drive back in January (also added an entry to the thread's database at that time). My cable company is Comcast and we are currently running SARA 1.88.25.1.

My extended capacity was working great for several months and then over the last couple of weeks we started experiencing problems. Severe stuttering during certain recordings (thought that it was only happening while recording 2 concurrent HD broadcasts, but this has not been consistent). Certain recorded programs were also forcing the 8300HD to re-boot itself while watching the program and freezing on a frame. Checked the diagnostics and at some point the 8300HD box stopped seeing the external drive (the second partition was displaying 0 bytes). I then did a hard re-boot on the box and the the communication between the drive and the 8300HD was re-established.

Recordings have now been inconsistent and I have been trying to determine if :

1) The external drive is failing.

2) There is some type of data or file corruption on the external drive.

or

3) Something happened when Comcast rolled out the last update (1.88.22.1 =====> 1.88.25.1)


Does anyone have any ideas? Is there anything else that I may be able to try?
My priority at this point is to try to correct the problem rather than to try to save any shows on the drive.


Thanks again for any help that you can give me!

Marie
I am a bit out of my element with SARA (I run Passport), but does the box perform normally when watching live TV? Have you tried a cold reboot? Have you visited (and researched on) the SARA thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859)?

.....Recordings have now been inconsistent and I have been trying to determine if :

1) The external drive is failing.

2) There is some type of data or file corruption on the external drive.

or

3) Something happened when Comcast rolled out the last update (1.88.22.1 =====> 1.88.25.1)


Does anyone have any ideas? Is there anything else that I may be able to try?
My priority at this point is to try to correct the problem rather than to try to save any shows on the drive.


Thanks again for any help that you can give me!

MarieHow full is your external drive? These are symptoms that have been reported when it approaches full capacity. If it is nearly full, and provided you still have communication between the internal and external drives, try deleting as many programs as you feel you can live without. See if the situation improves.

Another possibility is that your SATA cable is not firmly seated in the enclosure and/or DVR. This happened to me, and it was the connection in the back of the DVR that was loose, but it could be on the inside of the enclosure, the outside of the enclosure, and/or the back of the DVR. The cable could also be bad--how long is it? Anything greater than 3 ft. may be problematic, and the shorter the better. Mine is 3 ft. and has worked well. I don't remember what brand enclosure you are using. Apricorns are great, and I am an advocate of fans in enclosures.

Also, you may have a bad hard drive--either internal or externsl. If you can, take the external drive out of the enclosure, put it in your PC, and run diagnostics on it. If it checks out okay, and as a last resort only, you might try the drastic reformat of the internal drive. As well as I remember, those instructions can be found in the first couple of posts in this thread, or in one of the links provided in those posts.

If none of the above works for you, then take the 8300 in and swap it for a new one--I have had to do that 4 times. Ask for the most recent build they have on hand. If you are lucky, you will get one with a Maxtor internal drive. Check the diagnostic screens to see what brand your internal drive is right now. I'm betting it will be a Western Digital. :) Most folks here have great luck with WD, but they are the only drives I have ever had that failed, so I am biased.

It is remotely possible that the upgrade could have caused some problems. Ours caused a lot of problems with the SA 8000's, but I haven't heard of any with the 8300's. If your problems started after the upgrade, it is something to consider. Again, trading the 8300 for another would be the only solution for that.

I am out of suggestions. Maybe someone else can offer others. In any event, do let us know how this works out.

Good luck!

Scarlett

How full is your external drive? These are symptoms that have been reported when it approaches full capacity. If it is nearly full, and provided you still have communication between the internal and external drives, try deleting as many programs as you feel you can live without. See if the situation improves.

Another possibility is that your SATA cable is not firmly seated in the enclosure and/or DVR. This happened to me, and it was the connection in the back of the DVR that was loose, but it could be on the inside of the enclosure, the outside of the enclosure, and/or the back of the DVR. The cable could also be bad--how long is it? Anything greater than 3 ft. may be problematic, and the shorter the better. Mine is 3 ft. and has worked well. I don't remember what brand enclosure you are using. Apricorns are great, and I am an advocate of fans in enclosures.

Also, you may have a bad hard drive--either internal or externsl. If you can, take the external drive out of the enclosure, put it in your PC, and run diagnostics on it. If it checks out okay, and as a last resort only, you might try the drastic reformat of the internal drive. As well as I remember, those instructions can be found in the first couple of posts in this thread, or in one of the links provided in those posts.

If none of the above works for you, then take the 8300 in and swap it for a new one--I have had to do that 4 times. Ask for the most recent build they have on hand. If you are lucky, you will get one with a Maxtor internal drive. Check the diagnostic screens to see what brand your internal drive is right now. I'm betting it will be a Western Digital. :) Most folks here have great luck with WD, but they are the only drives I have ever had that failed, so I am biased.

It is remotely possible that the upgrade could have caused some problems. Ours caused a lot of problems with the SA 8000's, but I haven't heard of any with the 8300's. If your problems started after the upgrade, it is something to consider. Again, trading the 8300 for another would be the only solution for that.

I am out of suggestions. Maybe someone else can offer others. In any event, do let us know how this works out.

Good luck!

Scarlett

Scarlett

Thanks for the reply! :)

-I already manually deleted many of the programs on the drives (got down to 10% full) and then did several hard re-boots and the problem still exists.

-The issue does not occur during live TV and I am pretty sure at this point that it's isolated to the external drive (when I tested with the external drive powered down the problem does not appear to happen---I kept choosing programs off the list until I found some that were resident to the 8300HD box and they played fine).

-I will further investigate how to run diags on the drive from my PC. I do not have a SATA port on the PC and I think that the Maxtor QuickView only has a SATA connection.

-I will also check all of the cable connections (haven't tried that yet).

I appreciate your help! I'll try some of your suggestions and report back later. The QuickView drive is only 3 months old and worked perfectly before, so I was hoping that it was something that could be corrected, but it just may be a bad drive....

Thanks again!
Marie

P.S - Thanks Pepar for your comments, as well.

-I will further investigate how to run diags on the drive from my PC. I do not have a SATA port on the PC and I think that the Maxtor QuickView only has a SATA connection.

-I will also check all of the cable connections (haven't tried that yet).

I appreciate your help! I'll try some of your suggestions and report back later. The QuickView drive is only 3 months old and worked perfectly before, so I was hoping that it was something that could be corrected, but it just may be a bad drive....
As it's probably the easiest, try re-seating the SATA cables, including the one*inside* the enclosure. As a family, the Quickviews have performed flawlessly for everyone who has used them, but a bad drive is always a possibility, too.

Do you have another cable to try?

I don't know how new your computer is, but if it's less than three years old, there's a good possibility that the motherboard has SATA ports. It is only recently that (some) computers have eSATA ports. You could verify the health of the drive if you could connect it to your PC.

The 8300HD, the external drive and the cable - not much left but the box if the drive and cable are OK.

Good luck!

I've had the Sata cable problem myself with the short internal cables in the drive enclosure...it would worked well for about a week and then loose connection eventhough the 8300 said it was working fine. I found the problem by bypassing the internal cable and going directly from the drive to the 8300....somewhat of a pain because that required a special Sata 1 to Sata 2 cable. I ended up buying a better enclosure for my drive ( it had a small fan) and started using a new cable that has clips so it doesn't slip out of the Sata port. It hasn't failed for 3 months.

The big difference between SDV and InDemand(from what I gather) is that the content is always going from the head end to the nodes, and the QAM is assigned at the node. This makes the operation much faster. I can't tell SDV channels from normal channels without looking at diags. There is no huge delay like there is with InDemand.

The problem we have in Austin(FYI) is that when you record and SDV channel somehow the request for the channel doesn't work right and you get the wrong channel on recordings (setup to record Speed, get MTV2). This never happens when manually tuning.

xnappp

I think this would work perfectly for me... but how many systems are fiber to their "nodes?" I know I am, but am curious how many others. For systems that still run copper to their nodes, it would seem SDV may be problematic... correct?

Hi all. I'm new here, so if this has been asked and answered, forgive me. I have searched, but didn't find anything.

I'm trying to add an eSATA drive to my Cox SA 8300HD. I put a brand new Seagate 320GB ST3320620NS drive in a NEXSTAR 360SU 300Gbs enclosure (which others have reported as working. The drive is from Seagate's ES series, which is designed for video use.

I powered down and unplugged the DVR, connected and powered up the drive, then plugged in the DVR. I got prompted to format the drive, and did so. Nothing appeared to happen: the TV went directly to the SA startup screen. Checking the diagnostics, the 2nd drive was shown, but with 0GB available. After waiting a while, I powered down and unplugged the DVR, disconnected the external drive, and powered up. Everything normal.

I did it all over again, and now the diagnostics show the drive with about 300 GB available, which is good. But whenever the drive is connected, the image on the TV keeps flashing on and off. All the time, even when I'm not recording anything. Even if the DVR is switched off.

Has anyone seen this before? Any idea what the problem might be? Thanks!

I think this would work perfectly for me... but how many systems are fiber to their "nodes?" I know I am, but am curious how many others. For systems that still run copper to their nodes, it would seem SDV may be problematic... correct?I understand that most modern systems use HFC (Hybrid Fiber Copper). If the system has "On Demand", it has HFC.

so i plugged mine in and it only says rec next to the original drive?
does this mean i'm screwed


w00t n/m 650 gig dvr like whoa

No, you do not want to buy a USB external hard drive. I bought this drive: ST3500830SCE Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 - Consumer Electronics - internal Hard drive - 500GB - less than a month ago for $178.76 from
This SATA drive has been used successfully with the 8300HD, has a 5-year warranty, and is one of those optimized for streaming A/V.

Good luck!

Scarlett

Hey! Thanks for the info and the link to the drive. The drive is appealing and I like the 5 year warranty. That actually looks nice but what about the Buffer being only 8MB? I think I'd like to get the same drive except with a 16MB Buffer. I'm assuming I will see a difference in data transfer. How is this drive working out for you? I'm not too sure about what the Buffer does for a drive - is there a noticeable difference?

How about this drive - http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=998263? Any comments/suggestions on it?



Cablevision - SA8300HD - Apricorn SATA

Seagate 750GB External eSATA drives $279.00 and free shipping this weekend at Frys.

Seagate 750GB Internal SATA drives $229.00 this weekend at Frys if you prefer to build your own.

I think this would work perfectly for me... but how many systems are fiber to their "nodes?" I know I am, but am curious how many others. For systems that still run copper to their nodes, it would seem SDV may be problematic... correct?

I am not sure if copper can handle it or not - but obviously there needs to be more bandwidth between the head end and the hubs than the hubs and houses... Maybe they can do higher frequencies on copper out to the hubs as well as fiber - I don't know...

xnappo

ohh man this is so great i have like 7 hd movies recorded now thanks guys

I am having video microblocking and audio dropout problems and xnappo suggested that having TLER enabled may be causing this due to its short (7 second) error correction timing. By disabling it the drive would error correct up to 2 minutes like a desktop hard drive (SE16) does. If I knew about TLER before I bought the drive I would have gotten an se16 drive. But whats done is done so I'm trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I was having the same problems as you with the macroblocking and audio drop outs with this drive.

Western Digital WD5000YS RE2

I needed a external drive for my pc so I replaced the RE2 on the cable box and used this in its place.

Western Digital WD5000KS SE16

Swapping these drives fixed all my problems. With the RE2 drive in there it was barely worth the extra storage because the quality was so bad. This has eliminated 99% all of the macroblocking and audio cutouts.

Not sure what causes the RE2 to works so poorly but it does. I only bought it because it had a longer warranty and sounded like a better drive. Clearly the SE16 is the better drive for cable box storage.

I posted this the Comcast tivo coming soon thread, but just found this. I'm in northern Virginia with Comcast running an SA 8300HD box with SARA firmware. I purchased a 500GB Xpander external drive from APRICORN and it works fine, so I can cofrim that Comcast SA boxes also have an ACTIVE eSATA port at least in my case. Apricorn's 500GB Xpander is only $199 compared to almost double that for the more established external drives. I've had one of Apricorn's small computer external drives for a while so know their products are good.

so i plugged mine in and it only says rec next to the original drive?
does this mean i'm screwed


w00t n/m 650 gig dvr like whoa
Pls restate your question. Not sure what you are asking . . .

well when i turned it on it and went to the setup screen drive 0 had rec written beside it and drive 1 didn't and at this time i was still being told that some of my recordings only had a couple days before they're deleted but then i powered down and powered up my dvr and everything worked fine. thanks for the help guys... i think i need a new drive case though the one i have is getting pretty warm.

well when i turned it on it and went to the setup screen drive 0 had rec written beside it and drive 1 didn't and at this time i was still being told that some of my recordings only had a couple days before they're deleted but then i powered down and powered up my dvr and everything worked fine.
I "protect" all of my recorded content by selecting manual erase only. If my storage capacity is getting low, I'll select something and designate it as keep until space is needed. I refer to this program as my canary in the coal mine.

thanks for the help guys... i think i need a new drive case though the one i have is getting pretty warm.
Glad we could help!

I recommend cases with a fan. If you have a case without a fan, a make sure it gets plenty of (room) air circulating around it.

How do I find out what SARA version I have running? Is there a big difference between a 8MB and 16MB Buffer? I'm debating between a Western Digital Caviar 7200, WD5000KSRTL model (which according to the SARA eSATA chart will work with the Apricorn SATA Enclosure that I've purchased) and a Seagate DB35 7200.3, ST3500830SCE model. The main difference being the 8MB vs. 16MB Buffer and also Seagate's 5 year warranty. I really need some advice here guys. Which drive do you think I should purchase to go along with the Apricorn SATA Enclosure?

Guys,

It has been almost a week now and the 500 gig Apricorn XPander is working just fine.

I know this is no surprise to anyone because the components have already been documented to work...

Just thought you may want to know...

Brian

I was having the same problems as you with the macroblocking and audio drop outs with this drive.

Western Digital WD5000YS RE2

I needed a external drive for my pc so I replaced the RE2 on the cable box and used this in its place.

Western Digital WD5000KS SE16

Swapping these drives fixed all my problems. With the RE2 drive in there it was barely worth the extra storage because the quality was so bad. This has eliminated 99% all of the macroblocking and audio cutouts.

Not sure what causes the RE2 to works so poorly but it does. I only bought it because it had a longer warranty and sounded like a better drive. Clearly the SE16 is the better drive for cable box storage.

Thanks for the reply vindii.

I think I'm going to try a new drive.

How do I find out what SARA version I have running? Is there a big difference between a 8MB and 16MB Buffer? I'm debating between a Western Digital Caviar 7200, WD5000KSRTL model (which according to the SARA eSATA chart will work with the Apricorn SATA Enclosure that I've purchased) and a Seagate DB35 7200.3, ST3500830SCE model. The main difference being the 8MB vs. 16MB Buffer and also Seagate's 5 year warranty. I really need some advice here guys. Which drive do you think I should purchase to go along with the Apricorn SATA Enclosure?


Buy the OEM version of the WD. Much cheaper.

WD5000AAKS

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

This drive works great in the Apricorn

Buy the OEM version of the WD. Much cheaper.

WD5000AAKS

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

This drive works great in the Apricorn

If I buy the OEM version, am I going to be missing any cables that are necessary to connect the drive to the enclosure? or will the Apricorn SATA enclosure have all the required cables to connect?
The box contents for the enclosure are:
- EZ Bus DTS Enclosure (no hard drive included)
- Vertical stand
- External shielded SATA cable
- AC power adapter
- EZ Gig II Disaster Recovery & Backup software, Second Copy Synchronizing Software & Cryptainer Encryption Software

If I buy the OEM version, am I going to be missing any cables that are necessary to connect the drive to the enclosure? or will the Apricorn SATA enclosure have all the required cables to connect?
The box contents for the enclosure are:
- EZ Bus DTS Enclosure (no hard drive included)
- Vertical stand
- External shielded SATA cable
- AC power adapter
- EZ Gig II Disaster Recovery & Backup software, Second Copy Synchronizing Software & Cryptainer Encryption Software

I have the same drive and enclosure and everything you need comes with the enclosure. Even the external cable. No reason to pay that much extra for the HD just to get the box.

I have the same drive and enclosure and everything you need comes with the enclosure. Even the external cable. No reason to pay that much extra for the HD just to get the box.

Thanks a lot Vindii! I appreciate the reply. I'll probably get the WD that you've linked to. The only thing that concerns me is that I had a WD HD years ago and it failed on me after about 3-4 years. So the 5 year Seagate warranty is tempting to me. Is there anyway to backup the data on these drives once the shows have been recorded?

How do you find what node your on?

Do you know which hub you are on? David V. and I are on the same hub (33), and we are having the problems you describe. I assume that you are also, but is everyone in Austin having this problem? Is it because of TW's network design, or because the DVR can't handle the delay in response from the channel? We get truncated recordings, if we get anything at all, from the SDV channel we select--or, we get a completely different channel. I hope this is something that can be corrected. Even if you can watch an SDV channel, it sort of defeats the purpose of the DVR if you can't record and time shift that channel's programming. :)

Thanks to you and Dave for the crash course on SDV!

Scarlett

How do you find what node your on?

It is on page 4 of the diags screens.

xnappo

I have a two or more second delay when switching digital channels on my explorer 8300 hd, Sudden Link is my cable subscriber and they say there is no updates addressing this problem. Can anyone help?

I have a two or more second delay when switching digital channels on my explorer 8300 hd, Sudden Link is my cable subscriber and they say there is no updates addressing this problem. Can anyone help?And this relates to the external drive, how? Perhaps you should check with the other AVS forums that are oriented towards the SA8300 itself.