8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! [Text View] - Page 2

DoubleDAZ

05-30-05, 08:43 PM

They can't be viewed, they are tied (encoded) to that specific 8300 and it appears that if you have to replace your 8300 or SATA, there is no way to recover any recordings still on them. I believe someone speculated that you could swap SATA drives and archive that way, but I don't recall if anyone posted that they have done that.

FWIW, one of our local members has a setup with about 1,000 titles archived, but he uses an SA3250HD via Firewire to the following equipment:

Apple Dual 1Ghz G4 (Dual Gig), 1.75GB RAM, 2 internal 80GB hard drives, running a dual boot system (10.3.7 system for everyday use, recording and a separate 10.3.7 boot drive for HDTV playback), 22" Apple Cinema Display.

Apple eMac 700Mhz G4, 640MB Ram, 40GB internal hard drive running OS X 10.3.7

HP Celeron 2.8Ghz running XP Pro with 2 80BG drives (for editing out commercials, diving transport streams, and for burning DVD-r's).

An 8-bay Firewire 800 tower (media server) with 8 250GB drives connected to the Dual Gig tower via Firewire 800.

Prehjan

05-30-05, 08:58 PM

wow thats is quite some hardware.,..
i would think that this 3250hd box should be availabel form companies like charter! right? (since i already ahve th esa8300hd from them and it isnt exactly what i signed up on for!)
and i already have 4 250 gig crives..(among various other 80gig 120gig and 160gig drives..but my main archiving ones are the 4x250gig) but no firewire case yet!
is there a difference (i mean a huge one between firewire 400 or 800..(is there too much difference between the two?)
How much do you know if the specifics of the set up for such a system but say using a intel or amd64 based fiewire set up! i mean as long as the firewwire works on the htpc/ archiving machine it should see the sa3250hd..correct!

i already have a g4 that i might be abel to use is such as case..also a icg7 intel pentium4 3.0 mobo/cpu combo in the box..maybe i could built a p4 solution to captuer and archive what i what..mostly hostory/science and discovery channel with a pinch of combat on the action channel...all of which (combats!!) i already have on my sa8300hd...i tried paying andcapturing to teh amd64 htpc i got set up with a hauppage card,,,but it was a little raw..and havent attemted again!

What methode/route do you think is the simplest and most cost effective based on the hardware at hand!

Thanks for any help in advance!

Martin

DoubleDAZ

05-30-05, 09:06 PM

Martin,

Rather than tie up this thread, I've PM'd you a website where you can check out the system in further detail and email the owner if you have questions.

Cheers, Dave

Prehjan

05-30-05, 09:37 PM

thanks
DoubleDaz
i just went to firewire depot and looked at their 4 and 8 hd enclosures like the oxford..but they all seem to have that paralell to firewire converter deallie..in that case why cant i just buy the converters and make a rackmountable enclosure for it out of a server case!
...but thanksfor the link will check it out..

Martin

BenDover

06-03-05, 05:43 PM

Whew...close call.

I have been concerned about the consequences of losing power to my 8300 and external hard drive given the ominous warning message displayed when first connecting and formatting the external and the minor problems I had initially getting it working (it required me to have the hard drive powered up and spinning prior to powering down/up the 8300 (i initially had the external hd connected to the outlet port on the back of the 8300 but that wasn't working)). Anyhow, the wife (or the kids, but they blame my wife :) ) for some reason powered down my surge protector/line conditioner which caused my 8300 and hd to lose power. I was petrified that since it wasn't powered down and disconnected in accordance with the message displayed by the 8300 that I was going to lose all the programming that was now sitting on the external 400 (which btw i managed to fill up in about a week since install). So, I hit the power switch on the surge protector/line conditioner, observed the external hd and 8300 power up and waited to see what message would be displayed on the screen.

Thankfully, the 8300 went through a normal power up, never displaying any kind of message about the external drive, and when I instructed it to list the DVR programs, everything was there just as I left it!!!

I guess I should be able to put together another one of these and swap it out with the existing drive if I wanted to have a library of material (understanding that it isn't a stable archive since it is married to that particular 8300 and authorization card combo).

Prehjan

06-03-05, 07:02 PM

hi bendover!! (cool name!!)
i also use a sa8300hd and archive shows to a external hd!
you do know that whatever you save to this drive, will only be accessed by that (and by that..i mean that extact dvr..no other in the world..jsut that one!) DVR/STB..so if that one bites the dust and you get another one from the telco..cable comany..you have to seset everything and everything that was saved in there will be gone!

that is the onbly thing that has started me lloking for alternatives such as the firewire and sa3250hd!!

Anyhow

Martin

davehancock

06-05-05, 01:01 PM

Re: Discussion of swapping the external hard drive as an archive tool.

I believe that DILAMI originally proposed that. I don't believe that he, or anyone else, has ever done it. I would think that the program directory (list) is on the internal drive and it would have a problem locating a program on the external drive if that drive was swapped.

Any actual experience here?

Prehjan

06-06-05, 04:44 PM

while reaseeching i have seen different setups..but so far havent tried to go that route..from the pics i would say it is possible!
my first step would be to look into the sa3250hd box and see if the firewwire is on! then i l go forward and set up a firewire terrabyrte plus storaye area..all i will need are three more 250 or 300gig drives and a 8xhd firewaire cage...i already have firewire capabilities on both my machines!
i have ssen this set up with a dual mac g5 and it looked promising! this was some dude in arizona...

anyhow

any ideas/thourghts ...feel free to post!

thanks

Martin

DMILANI

06-06-05, 05:25 PM

DoubleDAZ

06-06-05, 07:38 PM

That is very true. HBO-HD here in Phoenix is the only one so far, but there will be more as time goes on and they complete the conversion to simulcast digital counterparts to the analogs sometime this summer. I'm glad I'm not into long-term archiving, it can get expensive and then pretty much be shut off on a whim.

CoolKitty

06-06-05, 11:14 PM

Another Success story on my 8300HD:

The equipment bought:

BYTECC 3.5" USB+SATA External Enclosure - NewEgg $39.99

SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series 160GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA133 Hard Drive - NewEgg $80.00 + $5.99 shipping for both.

MC78EX-AB - 2 meter Shielded External SATA w/ Type A to Type B (eSATA) - MacGurus - $23.95 + $6.12 shipping

Total cost to double up my 8300HD memory: $156.05

Don't know the version code, didn't really care, just know it works great and my wife is pleased. If it hadn't worked it would have made a great PC backup. My location is Oklahoma City with Cox Cable.

Wow, the Bytecc case really is a bright blue flashlight as someone had mentioned before and that's no understatement. A small piece of electrical tape does the diffusion trick well but I'm still assured it's working.

The case gets somewhat warm but shouldn't be a problem, and no noise to speak of while it sits silently behind my cable box.

I wanted to thank Dmilani, and everyone else on this forum, for enlightening me, and everyone who reads about this. The knowledge to improve upon the 8300HD and it's smallish stock memory has turned into a great upgrade at a very reasonable price. I just had to register and say thanks folks, very much. :)

Prehjan

06-07-05, 03:34 AM

Other than local network channels which should be sent in the clear, most other HD stations are/will be protecting their content and you won't be able to record onto a PC or MAC. This is the 5C copy protection you might have heard about.

hi folks

dimmilani...i was thinking that the set ups that i have seen online that use the sa3250hd to a g5 dual mac,,was done in the analog realm, hense i dont think that the encyption would be a problem...right now on the mechine one which i am typing , is connected to the analog out of the sah8300hd, and it is conneted to a pinnacle tvtv card..which is the cleanest card that i have had out of maybe 2 dousen card that i had tried ..there are also 2 other hauppage cards...but that is beside the point becasuse for some reason i am getting alot of junk on those two..but the way things are set up right now with dscaler it works pretty good...abd i can capture and archive...that way i am not connected to the hips to the sa8300hd that i have right now for archiving my shows and stuff..

i agree with doubledaz..for a cable company rental box it is spendid!..yeah it has a few flows...like i will kick you out of the show once the recorning is done regarless of what you want...which anoys me to hell!!! but regardless..it is a nice box...but i am a tinkerer and i need some new set up ideas!

does anyone have any system or know of such a set up so i can learn a little more about how to do it right the firt attempt,please let me know...

as far as hd and non digital, i guess it all depends on how it is captured and on what hardware, for the time being all digital realm recording is to eexpenmssive...and pluse most of teh channels are broadcasted in 480i..also at some point most of these shows...specially teh older oneswere film to analog recording and put on the acables so called digital system kind of a set up...so hd or no hd..unless it is done all in the digital realm it doesnt really matter...we are not talking hard dvd type playback.,.but capuuring adn seeing shows in the cable box..coming out of the telecos "feed"...i dont know about you guys but i dont buy techological terms at face value...specially some of the shows i wanna archive were shot 30 plus years ago...like the series combat on the action channel... so i dont think having a hd feed is gonna helpo in anyway in teh capture of some of the material...
plus with my recent setup that uses dscaler i can also process the analog picture with fdshow...which is an amasing piece of software and most of all it is freeware....

anyhow hope i didnt ramble toolong and the idea of the forum is to share whoughts and info to get some of our own projects and ideas goinng/flying...right???

thanks

Martin

DMILANI

06-07-05, 07:32 AM

Prehjan

06-07-05, 08:20 PM

Ok, I was not thinking you wanted to record down converted video. Most people on this forum are only interested in recording HD video in its native format.

Also, recording from the 3250HD via firewire in HD doesn't have to be expensive. I have a JVC 30K D-VHS recorder, and it works great as an archival device. You can get these pretty cheap today.

thanks for replying...i was just talking about what conclusions i came with with all this hd "concepts"..didint mean to sound harsh...and excuse me if i did...
i would really be interested in the project you mentioned with the d-vcr..i also looked into that...but it would take longer to convert and captuer and stuff...could you tell me how you had yours set up?

thanks

Martin

DMILANI

06-07-05, 08:30 PM

It's simple. Connect the 3250HD via firewire cable to the 30K D-VHS. I use the IR blaster from my cable company to tune to the proper channel and record unattended.

-D

DSperber

06-07-05, 09:48 PM

I bought the $34 external SATA enclosure from newegg.com (Item=N82E16817155903) and a 300 GByte Seagate Barracuda SATA drive (Item=N82E16822148064), plus the 221303D cable from Cruz Systems. I placed my order late last night, for the EP-301SA enclosure and Seagate ST3400832AS 400gb drive from Newegg, and the 221303D Comax cable from Cruz. All should arrive in a few days and I hope to have success with SA8300HD from Charter, in Topanga CA.

Incidentally, the price for the cable has increased from the $12.50 shown when this thread first started, to a current value of $18.50.

Also, in retrospect I could have saved CA sales tax on the $302+$3+$24 Seagate drive price by buying it from YesMICRO.com for $295+$7 instead of Newegg. A bit less on price for the drive, a bit more for shipping, and not in CA so no sales tax. I had originally decided to get both from Newegg for convenience, but naturally right after placing my order had second thoughts.

By the time I called Newegg first thing this morning to cancel the drive they said the two items had already been packed, scanned, shipped and my credit card charged, which I found amazing at 8:30AM. They told me I could just refuse delivery when it arrived, if I wanted to. They would refund my money and I could then reorder the enclosure.

I think I'll just let it go. I can't wait for the capacity-expanding hardware to arrive, so who really cares about the extra $27 now.

Let's hope there's no problem with the Charter SA8300HD SATA port.

davehancock

06-09-05, 02:09 PM

Owenrutz,

I don't understand your statement:
I am not allowed to have URLs in my posts

I think the following document (presentation at CES) is what you wanted to show:

http://www.sata-io.org/docs/SATA-IO%20Update%20for%20Enabling%20Technology%20Forum_Final.pdf

Pages 16 thru 20 of the PDF relate to the 8300 (though they clearly have an error in saying it is a SA9300).

I think that the confusion comes from the SATA II committee defining the new connector (with no name). According to the SAATA web site that committee changed names to SATA-IO and coined the name "eSATA" in January. Hence, people like CRUZ who had product available earlier adopted the SATA II nomenclature.

There should be no confusion re obtaining the correct cables if one simply goes back to the beginning of this thread.

archiguy

06-09-05, 04:20 PM

Does anyone know if this capability has been extended to the Passport software on any cable system anywhere? We have Passport here in Charlotte and I'm just sick of you SARA folks being able to get more 8300 storage while we Passporters continue to suffer. ;) :p

templeofdoom

06-09-05, 04:31 PM

Does anyone know if this capability has been extended to the Passport software on any cable system anywhere?
Not that I've heard of anywhere. Definitely not here in Orlando, FL.

davehancock

06-09-05, 05:48 PM

I think that the reason that only SARA has the capability is that SARA was developed by Scientific Atlanta and they simply included the functionality as part of the product. Passport is developed by someone else and is probably paid for by the cable companies that need to use it. The external drive feature would have to be something that the cable companies want to pay for. So far, the cable companies seem to be cool to this idea (many of them don't even know that the capability is there). Part of their apathy is likely due to the lack of commercially available drives. So, until this catches on in a big way in the SARA universe, Passport systems are likely to be stuck with 160GB.

dt_dc

06-10-05, 05:31 PM

"Passport Echo" is developed by Pioneer:
http://www.pioneerdigital.com/

For Passport users waiting / wanting SATA ... has anyone compared the earliest PTVOS (PowerTV OS) that supported SATA to the latest PTVOS version on Passport boxes? SARA and Passport both run on top of PowerTV ... so ... perhaps it's an issue of OS support (instead of Resident App support) and perhaps it will come if/when Passport upgrades to a newer OS. I would expect the PTVOS Passport uses to lag a little behind what SARA uses because ... well ... that's just the way these things typically work.

Anway ... just a ray of hope for Passport users.

Otherwise ... I wouldn't hold my breath.

Personally I think that SATA on the 8300s came about more via a deal between Scientific Atlanta and Silicon Image rather than any burning need/desire to support external drives on Scientific Atlanta's part. Yes ... external drives are cool. But, 1) SciAtl spends lots of $$$ on Silicon Image chips every year. 2) Silicon Image has a nice collection of SATA IP (licenseable patents) and this has given them something new to talk to stock analysts about and a proven model to point other manufacturers too. A little you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours ...

jtomdd

06-10-05, 06:13 PM

My cable provider is Beaumont, Texas Time Warner - My 8300HD software is SARA 1.87.4.3

When I go to Diags and get to the Hard drive page it shows for DEVICE 2, UNAVAILABLE for all enties.

The local tech rep said that SA had disabled the SATA feature on all their 8300 boxes. I don't know if this is true. Id appreciate it if someone running SARA in an area where folks have successfully added a SATA external drive, would look to see if the diags show a different result for DEVICE 2. If so, then I'll believe the technician. If not, I'll still not know.

Thanks in advance.

Tom

Gwarrior4u

06-10-05, 06:30 PM

Hi folks,
Got our box upgraded today using the stuff that folks have been posting about and so far it works great!

Details... SA 8300HD running Sara 1.87.16.1 on Adelphia in North Royalton, OH

External SATA enclosure from newegg (Item#N82E16817155903)

300 GByte Seagate Barracuda SATA drive (Item#N82E16822148064) (also Newegg)

Cruz's Esata to sata cable (221303D)

Plug it in, reboot the box, follow the prompt to format and you're there! The gold external box from Newegg works great, is very quiet, and so far seems to run pretty cool with no noticable fan noise. Some of the folks mentioned having to carve on the plugs for the cable to get some of the other cases to accept the cable plug (ack!), on this case the Cruz cable fits perfectly.

New Question..

Has anybody seen the network functions turned on yet that allow you to record programs on one box and display it via a seperate box? The software looks to be capable, and the SA docs describe it working, sounds like it would very cool especially in light of having the expanded hard drive capacity. You would then be able to display recorded programming on up to 4 seperate boxes, and see the stuff in your box on any of the other 4 sets, the capability is there, just need to get Adelphia to turn it on! (or figure out a way to turn on ourselves)

The firmware also talks about being ethernet capable and even lists a place for an IP address via dhcp, but there's no ethernet port on my box...so I'm not sure how you'd get that to work. The box also gets an IP address via the RF network (also assigned via some sort of DHCP) and in theory you *should* be able to get to the box configuration via a web browser or telnet, but I haven't figured out the details for that either (yet!).

Thanks to all for doing the research to make this a painless upgrade!

vegggas

06-10-05, 08:03 PM

The software and firmware you see is also for the 8300MultiRoom version with QAM connectivity to other STB's, the upcoming whole home media version under development and the DVR DVD recorder STB's. SA has got their software to work across multiple platforms instead of a differnt OS version for each STB, thereby streamlining the code. Those features not supported on a particular platform are just ignored. A good example of this is that the same software is also now on the 8000 DVR with none of the expandible or network capabilities.

Also, I know of NO MSO that is officially allowing or supporting SATA expandibility at this time. Right now, it works on a non-supported basis, so enjoy it, but beware that things can change. We went through this a few years ago with the 1394 ports on the 3250 and other STB's. They were "active" by default until MSO's had to start incorporating digital rights and other security features. Those that didn't have specific protection were forced to turn off the ports until things were straightened out.

vegggas

BenDover

06-10-05, 08:22 PM

kroberts1972

06-10-05, 08:37 PM

I just swapped out my SD DVR for one of these yesterday, and I have to say I love the HD. Has anyone used an external SATA drive with Cox in the Phoenix Area? I saw that Cox in another area worked (I think Oklahoma?), but I haven't seen anything about phoenix in this thread. I talked to 2 different tech guys on the phone and one told me that it wouldn't work but the other just implied that it wasn't supported and I was free to try it.

Thanks for all the great info in this thread.

DoubleDAZ

06-10-05, 09:27 PM

I have not seen any posts in our local forum (see website in my profile) or the Phoenix thread here that indicates anyone in Phoenix has connected an external SATA drive. We have a very small thread from a while ago that shows some interest, but no one ever followed through as near as I can tell. I can ask the question and see if anyone pops up.

There should really be no reason why it wouldn't work though, although vegggas' caveat certainly applies. Cox personnel are probably the last people to ask since they rrely comment on anything that has not been announced or is not officially supported. The only way you are going to know for sure is to bite the bullet, order the parts, and press on. I'd do it, but I have enough trouble watching what I record now, so I have no need for more storage at the moment. My problem is trying to watch/record 4 progams at the same time. :)

kroberts1972

06-10-05, 09:34 PM

Thanks for the info DoubleDAZ,
I think I will order the external box and cable, then just use a random drive I have sitting around as a test. Unfortunately, I am about to leave so that will have to wait until tomorrow.

smb11k

06-11-05, 11:19 AM

when i get my 8300hd might have to give this a try :p

GBL

06-11-05, 06:56 PM

The firmware also talks about being ethernet capable and even lists a place for an IP address via dhcp, but there's no ethernet port on my box...so I'm not sure how you'd get that to work. The box also gets an IP address via the RF network (also assigned via some sort of DHCP) and in theory you *should* be able to get to the box configuration via a web browser or telnet, but I haven't figured out the details for that either (yet!).

Thanks to all for doing the research to make this a painless upgrade!

The IP address, to my knowledge, is used to access on-demand programming; the 8300HD has a built-in cable modem that is used for that purpose thus IP address and DHCP client.

Prehjan

06-12-05, 03:41 AM

I placed my order late last night, for the EP-301SA enclosure and Seagate ST3400832AS 400gb drive from Newegg, and the 221303D Comax cable from Cruz. All should arrive in a few days and I hope to have success with SA8300HD from Charter, in Topanga CA.

Incidentally, the price for the cable has increased from the $12.50 shown when this thread first started, to a current value of $18.50.

Also, in retrospect I could have saved CA sales tax on the $302+$3+$24 Seagate drive price by buying it from YesMICRO.com for $295+$7 instead of Newegg. A bit less on price for the drive, a bit more for shipping, and not in CA so no sales tax. I had originally decided to get both from Newegg for convenience, but naturally right after placing my order had second thoughts.

By the time I called Newegg first thing this morning to cancel the drive they said the two items had already been packed, scanned, shipped and my credit card charged, which I found amazing at 8:30AM. They told me I could just refuse delivery when it arrived, if I wanted to. They would refund my money and I could then reorder the enclosure.

I think I'll just let it go. I can't wait for the capacity-expanding hardware to arrive, so who really cares about the extra $27 now.

Let's hope there's no problem with the Charter SA8300HD SATA port.

no problem..the serial port works on mine ian di am about ten miles away from toponga ca, so i know yours should work also..

good luck

Martin

Prehjan

06-12-05, 03:46 AM

i also use a sa8300hd
and ..cant find the version!

where in the menu do i find the info to find out which version i am running...is it by holding the buttom for a few minutes and then click on the other side button and you get the 30plus page info deallie...but whre eis the software number and version.??

also it is too bad that the eserial is not capable of being connected to a dvr type maybe even hdvd type device so you can store your favorite shows for your libarary! that would be good...i think...hardrive and dvdr capabilities...i d sign on to that

thanks

Martin

DoubleDAZ

06-12-05, 03:37 PM

Martin, I believe the software info is on page 3 of the "30plus page info deallie". :)

ntermini

06-13-05, 02:14 PM

Does anyone know if this feature has been enabled for Time Warner NYC customers?

BenDover

06-13-05, 02:46 PM

Does anyone know if this feature has been enabled for Time Warner NYC customers?

From what I've read, no because Time Warner uses Passport software, not SARA. Check out the Time Warner thread from the 8300HD.

billatlakegeorge

06-13-05, 03:02 PM

I am a Time Warner user in upstate NY and I have SARA but have not tried the external hard drive.

alha

06-13-05, 09:47 PM

Hi folks, I'm a new forum member in Mpls, MN (Time Warner) and got my 8300 HD about 3-4 months ago. This is the 1st DVR I've owned, and have a few questions that you may be able to answer for me. I got the HD version for the extra storage space, even though I don't have a HD TV yet. I understand now why TVIO was so popular, I've held off till now because I couldn't see paying $10 or more a month for basically a VCR with an HD, just to get a program guide which I already get and pay for from my cable company...

Now that I have had it for a few months, I have found that I have a hard time watching "live" TV on another set in the house without it, MAN, there's nothing like blasting FF thru 3-4 mins of commercials in 30 secs or so (though wish they would put in the skip 30 secs per button push like I heard TVIO has, but that’s a small quibble).

The problem I have, is that I have recorded a number of programs, many of which I would like to archive, and do not have the option/ability (that I know of, at least) to get them to a DVD (I don't want them on a VHS tape, I prefer the digital format and small physical storage space, plus the ability to watch them on my PC if I so choose). I knew this going in, but thought that there would be a "work around" ;) for it by now, as there has been in so many things in the PC world I live in, but as of yet haven't found a way to do it.

My DVR is full, even though I haven't recorded one thing in HD, and this has brought me to this crossroads. I haven't looked recently, but I believe all this HD/DVR rental stuff is raising my cable bill at least $10-20 a month, when it's all said and done (HD prog, DVR, remote control rental, etc etc etc...) I guess I don't mind the extra money, at least not if it would allow me to use this to it's full potential, that is, to replace my VCR.

The crossroads I am at, is I am trying to decide if I should break down, and spend $2-250 on the external SATA drive for this, (because this thing is consistently hovering between 92-100% full recently) or, since I don't have a way to get the recordings off the DVR and on to DVD, to go with another technology? I haven't researched it too much as of yet, I've just started to get to the very irritated point the last week or so, that's when I found this forum.

I was looking for 'answers' to the DVD backup/export issue, but didn't find a solution, although I did find some useful threads, such as this one. I have seen at least one DVR/DVD solution, didn't have time at that moment to look further into it, and lost the info, but I know that there must be something out there that will allow me to go from DVR to DVD in one unit, & preferably without having to integrate a PC into my entertainment center.

That's always an option, but not high on my list of preferences. Even with its idiosyncrasies, I do like the TW setup, but this inability is going to become an issue, & sooner rather than later, I can tell. I would assume that if I were to replace this unit with another (some sort of DVD/DVR combo unit), I would be spending (most likely) approximately the same amount that I would be to just increase the (non-exportable) storage capacity of this unit.

I like the integration that TW offers (there's something to be said about one stop shopping, at least when it works), and the cost isn't so bad, but I really want the option to get programs off this thing to a DVD. This DRM cr*p is going to drive me nuts, I can tell, and I wish there was something we all could do about it other than sit back and take it. I have the right to record for my personal use any program broadcast on TV, at least until they overturn the Fair Use doctrine, but they are obviously implementing technology to render it useless, so now we're stuck with what they feel we should be happy with.. Sorry about the rant, it's just so frustrating.

If anyone has any suggestions to help my situation, I would love to hear them. I certainly like the technology, and the perks that come with it, but to not have the ability to get it out of my box and onto an external media is looking to become a showstopper. (and sorry for the log post) :o

ps, one last quick question, rumor has it that TW is selling out (at least in my market) to Comcast in the not too distant future, and I've heard grumblings about their internet service, I've Loved my Roadrunner, had it more than 5 years now... Anyone have thoughts on what may be coming down the pike for us in the Twin Cities in terms of service, costs, etc? Thanks again!

DSperber

06-14-05, 01:03 AM

I placed my order late last night, for the EP-301SA enclosure and Seagate ST3400832AS 400gb drive from Newegg, and the 221303D Comax cable from Cruz. All should arrive in a few days and I hope to have success with SA8300HD from Charter, in Topanga CA. Let's hope there's no problem with the Charter SA8300HD SATA port.Well, yet another 100% success story to relate.

The unit was at 99% when I started (52 recordings). When the addition of the 400gb external drive was complete, the unit was at 26%. Essentially quadrupled the capacity of the box.

Took about 10 seconds to insert the Seagate drive into the terrific looking EP-301SA enclosure (with its built-in 80mm fan) and tighten all the screws. Took another few minutes to delicately insert the e.Sata end of the cable into the connector on the back of the enclosure, which was a bit snug on the top. But all went well.

Connected the Sata end of the cable to the SA8300, and then plugged the A/C adapter into the power connector on the enclosure. Nothing special happened, other than that the power light on the front of the enclosure lit up. But no comment from the SA8300.

Unplugged the SA8300 from the wall, let it sit for a minute, and then plugged it back in. Now it advised of a new device available that needed to be formatted, and did I want to do it. I gave it the "ok", and the message box went away. But it never actually told me it was finished, and I didn't know if it was in fact formatting the entire drive or just the VTOC. So I gave it 45 minutes while I did some fine-tuning on the Sharp Aquos using Digital Video Essentials.

Checked the list and capacity, and it still was at 99%. Unplugged the SA8300 from the wall a second time, and a minute later plugged it back in. Now a new message appeared, indicating that there was a device present that could be used by the DVR and did I want to use it. I gave it the "ok", the message box disappeared, and that was that.

I then checked the list and capacity, and now it was at 26%. My friend was absolutely ecstatic!

So... this is the second piece of Charter-dispensed misinformation that turns out to have been "yes" when Charter said it was "no". First, they said the HDMI port was not active (or at least not supported) and it was perfectly functional. Second, they said the SATA port was not active (or at least not supported) and it also was perfectly functional, just as many others on this thread from all around the country and from numerous different cable systems have attested to. I didn't see a Charter customer in the thread, so this may be a first (or perhaps I just missed it).

Anyway, case closed. Situation normal. 100% success.

Thanks to the thread starter. Wonderful.

[Edit] Addendum: The first attempt at recording following the presumably acceptable new dual-drive state failed. In other words, a timer recording did not record and did not create a new entry on the list. Nor did a manual recording succeed, and the red "recording" light did not come on, nor did the Guide show that recording was occurring.

It was necessary to pull the power plug for the SA8300 yet one more time, and a minute later plug it back in, to trigger the boot process one additional time with both drives active. Now all of the timer-recording and manual-recording features worked perfectly, and the recordings showed up in the list. WHEW!

I don't know if this one-additional reboot is absolutely necessary, or if some other anomaly might explain why recordings were not working before that. All I know is that thankfully the additional reboot corrected whatever was the problem and operation is now TRULY normal again, but with quadruple the original recording capacity thanks to the new Seagate.

REWJR

06-14-05, 02:35 AM

It took only 2 boots of my Rogers cable HD8300 for the proper screen saying detected drive and needed formatting . I added a 250GB SATA Maxtor drive with StarTech aluminum enclosure with power adapter . I was at 79% capacity before reboot and now it says 29% So it at least doubled my capacity .

I now keep the secondary drive powered off until I need the extra storage space .

I intend to get another HD PVR for the bedroom later this year and will use this combo upstairs. I will look for the latest SA MCP-100 to come along which will offer HD DVD archiving from the HDD .

jtomdd

06-14-05, 09:25 AM

BenDover

06-14-05, 09:42 AM

Help, please.

I have two 8300HD boxes in my home, one with the external HD added, the other just waiting for one. I'll take a look tonight when I get home to see what the screen says, but I am almost 100% sure that that is what the screen read; i.e., UNAVAILABLE.

Foxbat121

06-14-05, 09:43 AM

It could be the case in older firmware where SATA port is not enabled. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do. You have to wait for your local cable co to push new firmware out whenever they fells like to.

BenDover

06-14-05, 11:51 AM

anyone try doing this with one of those "port multipliers" ... connect five sata drives to one sata port; i.e., the sata port on the 8300?

DMILANI

06-14-05, 11:56 AM

I remember reading on SA's website, that port multipliers won't work.

davehancock

06-14-05, 12:35 PM

jtomdd

06-16-05, 09:16 AM

I have two 8300HD boxes in my home, one with the external HD added, the other just waiting for one. I'll take a look tonight when I get home to see what the screen says, but I am almost 100% sure that that is what the screen read; i.e., UNAVAILABLE.

Ben,

Did you remember to check your other 8300HD>? If so, what was the result? Thanks.

Tom

BenDover

06-16-05, 10:17 PM

Ben,

Did you remember to check your other 8300HD>? If so, what was the result? Thanks.

Tom

No, I forgot :) But I checked tonight when I got home. On my 8300 sans the external SATA, for device 2 it indicates unavailable everywhere there is something related to device 2...there are at least a couple of pages I saw mention of device 2 (pp. 30 and 32 I believe).

Prehjan

06-17-05, 01:56 AM

alha,

I had to sort through your posting to figure out what you were really asking. So forgive me if I missed your question.

You can "archive" to DVD or VCR with the "Copy to VCR" function of the 8300. The only problem is that the function is analog. However, for SD recordings the quality you will get on a DVD is about the same as you will see on your TV anyway (SD programs are reduced in quality when recorded on the 8300 because of the A to D conversion and compression). You need a standalone DVD recorder connected to the S-Video jack on the 8300 (for best quality).

Direct digital to digital transfer is not possible due to the encrypting process. SA has announced a unit with integral DVD recorder for archiving BUT I don't know if that has been rolled out anywhere yet. The downside of that unit is that the resultant DVDs are also encrypted and can only be played on the SA box that they were recorded on.

RE: Your cable system sale to Comcast. I'm not in your area, but I wonder if this rumor was started because of the sale of Adelphia systems to both Comcast & Time Warner. There is apparently an issue with Comcast getting too large ( :rolleyes: ) so I would doubt if there would be a sale of a TW system to Comcast - I would expect the opposite.

hi folks

I am also interested in being able to better use my sa8300hd box!
i have been following this thread and it is cool that sa is adding a dvd recording function to the box...or a new box...whichever way it goes, i still don't see the point of having everything encypted and since you can also use it with the box you record on..what is the point...i mean the stb/dvr boxes are leased, hence you cant be the legal owner and when you save/archives something,,,the second you exchange your stb/dvr or it bites the dust, your recording turn instantly into shinny discs that you cant use anywhere!
so i ask you , what is the point of being able to do that?
i mean is there is a sa tech reading this, i would hope they can go back to the drawing board to figure somerthing better!
i mean don't get me wrong i love my sa8300hd..but only for the timeshifting and saving a show and watching it that same week and erasing it...NOT for Archiving anything! i do that on my mac and i am quite happy with it! although if something smaller and simpler come along i would use it.,...but for now that is what i do!

also, lets even say that all recordings will work on all of the stb/dvr that come from that cable company!...great...but then what happens when the cable company gets "eaten" by a bigger company! it still sounds like a losing proposition!

anyway

Thanks

Martin

Foxbat121

06-17-05, 09:08 AM

It is not for archiving. The 20-hour HD recording is simply not enough for most of us.

PDPnNJ

06-17-05, 03:24 PM

so i ask you , what is the point of being able to do that?
i mean don't get me wrong i love my sa8300hd..but only for the timeshifting and saving a show and watching it that same week and erasing it...NOT for Archiving anything! i do that on my mac and i am quite happy with it! although if something smaller and simpler come along i would use it.,...but for now that is what i do!

Some of us have a really busy schedule and be out of town for weeks. The ability to save all your shows (which usually go beyond 20hrs) in HD, priceless.

This expense (buying the hard drive) is not throwing money away. You can use this hard drive (once formatted) in your PC for instance, if the provider decides to disable the SATA port.

kroberts1972

06-17-05, 04:04 PM

I live in Southeast Chandler and had success with the following config
SARA 1.87.16.1

Hard drive and eclosure from Newegg
17-155-903 EXT SATA ENCLSR E-POWER EP-301SA
22-144-393 HD 300GB|WD 7200RPM 8MB WD3000JD%

221303D Cable from Cruz

I forced a recording to it by recording 2 shows at once, and it looks like all is fine. I think my initial percentage used was 67% (I forgot to write it down) and it went down to 27% after installation.

Installation went smooth. I just unplugged the 8300HD, hooked up the external drive, powered on the external drive, then plugged in the 8300HD. I didn't get the message that a drive was connected until after the box was up and running and I was watching TV. It asked me if I wanted to format and I said yes. After that I left it sit for a few minutes and checked the service menu to see that it was recoginzed.

jtomdd

06-17-05, 08:08 PM

No, I forgot :) But I checked tonight when I got home. On my 8300 sans the external SATA, for device 2 it indicates unavailable everywhere there is something related to device 2...there are at least a couple of pages I saw mention of device 2 (pp. 30 and 32 I believe).
Ben, thanks. That;s encouraging. The fact that my diagnostics show it unavailable does not rule out its being enabled. Now the question is, do i spend a couple of hundred bucks, hoping the technician was ill-informed when he told me that it was disabled. Perhaps if I could buy the drive from some place that would let me return it if it doesn't work ...

davehancock

06-17-05, 09:03 PM

I think that people need to be reminded that external hard drives with eSATA (SATA II) connectors are not yet available. The only people who have them are folks like us who have done it ourselves. As a result the cable company personnel are just not aware that this capability exists and you get answers like jtomdd reported.

DiscounTech

06-17-05, 10:13 PM

We have listed an SATA enclosure with SATA 7.2K 8MB RAID Edition drive installed bundled with the Comax cable on ebay. Prices are as follows:
160GB $159.95
250GB $199.95
400GB $359.95

Item#: 5783122961

Let us know if you'd like this package modified at all!
It will be on our website soon also: http://www.discountechnology.com
We picked the box to match the colour of the 8300HD. The drive is the most robust SATA drive on the market.

Again, thanks to all the pioneers on this forum. I'm so excited to have an extra 250GB on my 8300HD. Works perfectly in San Diego on Cox Cable.

Regards,

Jesse.

Prehjan

06-18-05, 06:57 AM

Some of us have a really busy schedule and be out of town for weeks. The ability to save all your shows (which usually go beyond 20hrs) in HD, priceless.

This expense (buying the hard drive) is not throwing money away. You can use this hard drive (once formatted) in your PC for instance, if the provider decides to disable the SATA port.

true ...i was jjust thinking from my own position as far as my technical needs are...
i apologies for not "formulating" my responses better~

Martin

Prehjan

06-18-05, 06:59 AM

Prehjan

06-18-05, 06:59 AM

good info

Nulluni

06-18-05, 12:49 PM

davehancock

06-18-05, 09:14 PM

The Maxtor QuickView Expander external SATA drive designed for use with the SA 8300HD is available at Buy_dot_com. Both the 160GB and 300GB units are listed as in-stock. Search for part #s P08K160 and J08M300. Kind of pricey, but it comes with everything you need and is the 'Approved' method of expanding recording capacity for the 8300HD.

There is nothing that says this drive is 'Approved'. It may well be the first appearance of a commercially available drive that will work BUT, according to the spec sheet on the Maxtor website it DOES NOT have the needed eSATA (or SATA II) connection. It is listed only as SATA. So, I'm not sure that "This is the Drive"

300GB kit for $287 would not be too bad IF it did include everything (including eSATA cable).

;)

Prehjan

06-19-05, 01:06 AM

I believe dave hancock is corerct when he points out that even if it may work it is still not a eserial "labeled" connection, hence it might have problems working properly,...but then again i have had things working that everyone told me would not work...so i guess if you are willing to experimenet you might be nicely surpirsed and stumble on something "good"

Martin

Foxbat121

06-19-05, 10:42 AM

Actually, somewhere in Maxtor's website it did mention eSATA and the spec sheet mentioned about for DVR. I agree the price (for 300GB version) is not bad.

ghilgamesh

06-19-05, 11:08 AM

Bookworm

06-19-05, 03:59 PM

Actually, somewhere in Maxtor's website it did mention eSATA and the spec sheet mentioned about for DVR. I agree the price (for 300GB version) is not bad.
Also the second page of the .pdf shows the contents of the box and it includes an external serial ATA cable.

QuickView Xpander (http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor/en_us/documentation/data_sheets/quickviewXpander_data_sheet.pdf)

davehancock

06-19-05, 04:34 PM

Also the second page of the .pdf shows the contents of the box and it includes an external serial ATA cable.

QuickView Xpander (http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor/en_us/documentation/data_sheets/quickviewXpander_data_sheet.pdf)

But it does not say "eSATA" or "SATA II". Might (?) be an oversight. Please, someone try it! ;)

Dago Red

06-19-05, 10:51 PM

But it does not say "eSATA" or "SATA II". Might (?) be an oversight. Please, someone try it! ;)
The Quick Start Manual on Maxtor's website at "/_files/maxtor/en_us slash documentation/quick_start_cards/quickviewXpander_quickstart_guide.pdf " clearly states ESATA, and the diagrams seem to support that.

bigLane

06-20-05, 04:34 PM

maxstore_dot_com/qvx/ lists the same P/Ns as the buy_dot_com website. Slightly higher price, but says compatible with the 8300. One of you guys may have already posted that, sorry if a repeat.

jtomdd

06-24-05, 10:23 PM

SATA works on Time Warner in the Beaumont, Texas area.

The TW technician assured me that the SATA port had been disabled by Scientific Atlanta for copyright reasons, which didn’t make much sense. The diags showed that Hard Drive 2 was “unavailable”. BenDover was kind enough to report that one of his 8300HDs also showed “Unavailable” even though he had a SATA drive working on his other one. Thanks, Ben.

Encouraged by this I ordered a Seagate 300 gig SATA drive which after the $50 rebate will end up coasting $139. I also ordered the special cable and the Addonix, plastic enclosure. All the stuff finally arrived this afternoon.

1) installed the drive in the enclosure – 5 minutes.
2) Unplugged 8300HD
3) Connected the drive and turned on the power on it
4) Plugged in the 8300HD and turned on the power – 5 minutes
5) After boot up got message asking if I wanted to format the SATA drive. I replied, “yes!”
6) After a couple of minutes I got a message saying the new drive was working.
7) The usage went from 20% to 7%

Recording worked the first time. I didn’t even have to reboot!

My thanks to all who helped. Remember, just because the technician says it won’t work, don’t give up. At worst I would have had a nice external hard drive for my PC.

BenDover

06-25-05, 08:59 AM

davehancock

06-25-05, 11:05 AM

....or they purposely say otherwise b/c they want to be able to offer the expanded capacity and charge you for it!

I don't think so - there have been no reports of any cable system offering expanded capacity period (extra cost or not). SA documentation, and any (knowledgable) statements from cable have talked in terms of "approved lists" of ext drives that the customer purchases. Its just that us followers of DILAMI are at the leading edge here.

By the way, the "copyright" issues are addressed in the SA design - the recordings on the external drive are encoded to play back only with the original DVR. Bottom line - the tech didn't know what he/she was talking about (surprise)!

pbendo

06-25-05, 12:17 PM

pbendo

06-25-05, 12:48 PM

BenDover

06-25-05, 04:43 PM

Ronin1

06-26-05, 08:12 PM

I was under the impression that if you power down the external drive while the 8300 was still plugged in/powered that the programming on the external would be lost and if you reconnected as originally done, then it would want to reformat...at least that is what the original ominous warning implied to me.

At least on my SA 8300HD there is simply a message to reboot to have it recognized.

I am told that you will lose all programming if the SA 8300HD goes bad and you have to get a replacement box. The encryption scheme is tied to the specific box that was attached when the content was recorded.

LYU370

06-27-05, 10:39 AM

LYU370

06-27-05, 10:42 AM

I was under the impression that if you power down the external drive while the 8300 was still plugged in/powered that the programming on the external would be lost and if you reconnected as originally done, then it would want to reformat...at least that is what the original ominous warning implied to me.
No, I accidentally powered off the external drive a few times when I was first installing it, and after power cycling the 8300, everything came back just fine. You get a warning screen stating that the external drive is disconnected or unavailable or some such thing, can't remember.

bigLane

06-28-05, 09:21 AM

When I disconnect the external drive, the listed %usage doesn't change. However, all the shows that I have recorded since I installed it 3 days ago are no longer viewable (they are listed in the menu but won't play)

I assume that this means the new programs are being recorded on the external drive and merely the recording capacity meter doesn't reflect it. ...I can live with that.

However, I am wondering what will happen when I hit 100% on the meter, and yet still have lots of space on the external drive. Will it still record, or will the SA 8300 think there is no more room?

When you connected the eSATA drive and there was no difference in the recording space used gauge, have you tried to reboot (power-cycle) the 8300 (i.e. unplug and then plug-in its power cord)?

I think if you reboot the 8300 after installation (or preferrably install the eSATA when the 8300's power cord is disconnected, then plug in and turn on) the recording space used gauge should update.

--Lane

pbendo

06-29-05, 05:15 PM

When you connected the eSATA drive and there was no difference in the recording space used gauge, have you tried to reboot (power-cycle) the 8300 (i.e. unplug and then plug-in its power cord)?

I think if you reboot the 8300 after installation (or preferrably install the eSATA when the 8300's power cord is disconnected, then plug in and turn on) the recording space used gauge should update.

--Lane

Yes, I rebooted with power cord unplugged many, many times. I even installed a second hardrive (I had purchased one for my PC) and had exactly the same results. Initially, it goes well, the drive is formatted just like every other post describes, but the recording space meter doesn't budge.

bionicjay

06-29-05, 10:47 PM

For the Toronto people, I know that there are a few sonnet dealers, mostly mac shops, I know that Carbon Computing sells piles of sonnet stuff, i'm leaving for vacation in a few hours and they are currently closed... but they should be able to get it for you.

eSATA to SATA 1 Cable [TCB-SATA-2/1]
carbonation.com

OrangeKid

06-30-05, 07:01 PM

The Maxtor QuickView Expander external SATA drive designed for use with the SA 8300HD is available at Buy_dot_com. Both the 160GB and 300GB units are listed as in-stock. Search for part #s P08K160 and J08M300. Kind of pricey, but it comes with everything you need and is the 'Approved' method of expanding recording capacity for the 8300HD.

I successfully installed a Maxtor 300 GB Quickview Expander Drive to the SA 8300 HD box here in Vegas. The drive is an eSata external drive and comes complete with the eSata cable.

It took four tries and reboots of the SA box before it recognized the drive and asked if I wanted to format it. Once formatted my drive space used for recordings went from 94 to 31% full.

I picked it up at buy.com for $276 delivered.

MrWigggles

07-01-05, 12:05 PM

1. I went to Addonics.com and got their SATA to eSATA short adapter cable.

2. I got a Vantec aluminum removable SATA drive tray from Fry's for $40

3. Best yet I got a 320 GB Western Digital SATA drive from Monarch computing for $139 with free shipping!! http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=150439 . (Coupon code SGJE-30CCHS should give $16 off.)

Unplugged my 8300HD, plugged in all my $200 worth of SATA stuff and then waited through the long re-boot process (3 minutes or so). Viola! 2X more space to record. 60 Hours of HD total.

My only complaint is my Vantec's fan is a little noisy. I am going to power it off and see how hot my drive gets without it. The aluminum should do a decent job of moving heat even with simple convection.

-Mr. Wigggles

holl_ands

07-01-05, 02:32 PM

Nulluni

07-01-05, 02:43 PM

The Quick Start Manual on Maxtor's website at "/_files/maxtor/en_us slash documentation/quick_start_cards/quickviewXpander_quickstart_guide.pdf " clearly states ESATA, and the diagrams seem to support that.

If you check the Maxtor ATA Hard Drives/Digital Entertainment page, you'll see that the QuickView Expander is listed as being "Compatible with the 8300 series of DVRs, with external SATA interface**".

If you look at their Press Center, there is a press release for Jan. 5, 2005 that states Maxtor was beginning to ship the product to Time Warner. "The first version of the Maxtor QuickView Expander drive utilizes an external SATA connector and is designed to work in association with Scientific-Atlanta's Explorer® 8300™ series of DVR products."

MrWigggles

07-01-05, 09:12 PM

Rather than no fan, why don't you cut one of the fan wires, measure how much current
it takes and insert an appropriate resistor to slow it down below warp speed...

They also make SATA drive mount trays with a quieter, variable speed fan.

But that would actually take some work.

I am actually an electrical engineer by trade so I can figure that out pretty easilly. I just don't think it is necessary.

If I want to solve the problem now, I will go that route because there is no guarantee which harddrive the system is using to record a particular show. So feeling how hot it gets won't be that easy.

Anyway, I will take some 2 Watt power resistors home with me and solder one of them in-line to reduce the fan speed like you said.

-Mr. Wigggles

DiscounTech

07-02-05, 03:43 PM

I've noticed several people stating that they've had to reboot their 8300HD several times before being prompted for "New external drive found, do you want to format it?". We've been doing a bunch of testing and have found that you can reliably induce the format question by pressing the "Info" button. To recap: turn on the 8300HD, wait for the sound and video to appear then press Info. That's it.

Let me know if this doesn't work for anyone.

Also, we've been having mixed results with our Western Digital Raid Edition SATA drives. Although they are more reliable (long term), we may be seeing some quirks. It's possible that our drive/cable/case combos will be packaged with Maxtor drives soon.

Also if anyone wants to offer a different drive combo let us know. Also we can sell the case and cable without drive if that's appealling.

Robert Packman

07-03-05, 12:09 PM

van someone please give me what i have to buy to hook up a external drive to my CV SA8300hd--the drive,wires,box, how you connect,and How you decide if it (program)goes on HD or external HD?/thanks i know it's probably here already on the thread but if it can be put into 1 presise answer with brandnames for wires,box and hd thanks again

MrWigggles

07-05-05, 12:31 PM

Robert,

It is on this page. My solution works and will only set you back $200 total for 320GB (and if you want you could just leave the drive out in the open)

The only thing I left of is I also bought the wallmount +12V/+5 power supply from Addonics as well with the PC power cable adapter that goes on it. So in conclusion from Addonics:

# AASA2SAP15C for the eSATA adapter cable - $9
# AADCPAC12V for the mini power supply - $25

Then I already posted the Monarch Computing link for the ~$140 drive

Then finally you need a drive tray. The Vantech I bought at Fry's Electronics locally was a plain Jane aluminum SATA drive tray but it does have a normal SATA cable on the back. I don't know what is wrong with Fry's website at the moment (www.outpost.com) but you could probably get the same drivetray at www.addonics.com

Good luck, this is not that difficult.

-Mr. Wigggles

DiscounTech

07-05-05, 11:01 PM

Has anyone else seen their external drive go offline?
We've only seen it with the WD RE drives so far. However I'd like to know if anyone else has noticed issues with other brands/models?
Has anyone tested Hitachi?

Thanks in advance for any input.

smook

07-06-05, 08:21 PM

Here's a link for a new product. (in a box) solution for everyone. It's located on the maxtor website.

click here (http://maxtor.com/_files/maxtor/en_us/documentation/data_sheets/quickviewXpander_data_sheet.pdf)

A Maxtor Quickview product 106 or 300gb product for expansion for the 8300HD.

Product code for the 300gb is, J01M300.

Approx. costs, $300us, drive enclosure/cable/maxtor quickview 300gb drive (sata II) NOT sata I.

The Maxtor quickview is sata II and is also known as "6L300s0".
It appears to me as a much better deal than building one. You get the enclosure, with a sata II to Sata II drive setup. 300gb's too! Fast. Faster.

There is some caution though, it mentions that it needs to be authorized by the provider.. not exactly clear, but it seems to hint that. Anyone know for sure? Possibly a firmware check, since it's a special Maxtor drive. (Maxtor QUickView 300gb).
Also looks like it's focused towards the cable providers to resell to the end consumer.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers!
Bill.

I WANT ONE. :rolleyes:

bigLane

07-06-05, 09:05 PM

There is some caution though, it mentions that it needs to be authorized by the provider.. not exactly clear, but it seems to hint that. Anyone know for sure? Possibly a firmware check, since it's a special Maxtor drive. (Maxtor QUickView 300gb).

I think the 'caution' is because the 8300 with Passport does not work with the eSATA drives. Only the SARA sites have eSATA activated. Also, it may be that cable companies are not set up to support (or answer questions about) the eSATA drives, so they can say "we haven't activated it nor support it".

smook

07-06-05, 09:09 PM

To check to see if you are running Sara or Passport software on your 8300HD,
do the following:

To check which software is on your box:

Go into Diagnostic Mode. There are two ways to enter the Diagnostic Mode:

Press and hold the Select button on the front of the unit until the Mail light starts to flash, then press the INFO button.
Press and hold the Pause button on the remote until the Mail light starts to flash (around 10-15 seconds), then press the Page Up (-) button.

Scroll through the pages until you see SARA or PASSPORT listed. If you see SARA, then your box is compatible!

...lots of things to consider.
-Bill. :eek:

smook

07-06-05, 09:27 PM

Mark Petersen

07-07-05, 01:11 AM

templeofdoom

07-07-05, 08:12 AM

Sorry for the newbish question. The SATA connector on the SA8300HD only works for SARA and not Passport SW correct? I'm using TWC in San Diego (Passport), so unfortunately I assume that this thread isn't relevant to me (sniff). Can someone confirm?
Correct. SATA port is not currently enabled on any Passport systems that we know of.

Check out the below (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804&goto=newpost) thread for 8300 on Passport discussion.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804&goto=newpost

Hookbillswife

07-07-05, 01:04 PM

Well, here's some more good info.

Rogers 8300HD in Toronto is SARA software enabled.

That's good. That means the J01M300 Quickview should be plug and play.

I'm ordering one right now.

I'll let everyone know how it performs.
-Bill. :D

Bill, I am anxious to hear how yours goes - this too seems like a good deal to me also - I somehow like the idea that it is fully SATA II (eSata) and not a conversion.

Thanks!

smook

07-07-05, 01:18 PM

Some new info... drives might be available locally. With even better pricing in CDN$.

Old product code J01m300, new one... J08m300.

This does look like the right box to make all this work.
I've done further research and the QUICKVIEW MAXTOR is much faster for video streaming (e-sata) with a much larger cache.

The other replies in this thread are using sata' 1 and much slower drives.
BTW THE 8300HD have internal 80 or 160 sata 2's. I'm sure the performance hit is there if you do NOT use sata's 2 that are QUICKVIEW MAxtor's with the cache upgrade.

More coming soon.... :p

DEIFan

07-07-05, 01:44 PM

More success to report, here in San Diego. I used the 2m Cruz cable 221303C500200 (~$32 shipped), the black Addonics enclosure/cradle (AECHDSA35 ~$50 shipped w/ tax), and a 300Gb Seagate drive from NewEgg (Item #22-148-064 ~$182 shipped w/ tax). So, for about $265 I nearly tripled by storage capacity.

Install went smoothly. I unplugged the SA8300, plugged in and powered up the drive and cradle and connected it to the 8300, and then plugged the 8300 back in. It went thru the boot process, but only had basic channels with no "Advanced Services". After hitting power and info a few times, the other channels and IPG came back and I got the message about a new device found and would I like to format it. After saying yes, it was done in about 20sec. Went from 40% used (which is low for me) to 13%.

Thanks to all who have posted here with tips, and part numbers and the like. Great thread!

smook

07-07-05, 01:48 PM

Dear DEIFan,

The Segate drive you got.... sata 1 ? Just wondering.
I'm going with the e-sata to e-sata setup. (faster). Wondering how you might compare data streaming from the new drive vs the quality from the internal 8300HD (sata 2) drive ? Can you see any difference?

Let us know.
-Bill. :cool:

DEIFan

07-07-05, 02:01 PM

Yeah standard SATA (I) type. Since I don't know of a way to see where a recorded program goes for storage, I'm not sure how to compare the two. About the only way I read was to have filled up the internal drive, before adding the external, to force all new recordings onto the new drive. But I was less than half full before the addition. Thoughts?

smook

07-07-05, 02:18 PM

Since I don't know of a way to see where a recorded program goes for storage, I'm not sure how to compare the two.

If you hooked up the lights on the external drive and you are watching a recorded show... you should see the activity lights blinking away.

Also note, that a file saved will NOT span across drives. It seeks space required by drive and will not fragment a file across the two.

Cheers!
-Bill.

Mark Petersen

07-07-05, 04:47 PM

Correct. SATA port is not currently enabled on any Passport systems that we know of.

Check out the below (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804&goto=newpost) thread for 8300 on Passport discussion.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804&goto=newpost

Thanks for the confirmation. Although, this totally blows :( I need more disk capacity and have thought about going with DirecTv but then I just found out that they are downrez'ing (1280x1080) HD on sat now.

DEIFan

07-07-05, 06:01 PM

If you hooked up the lights on the external drive and you are watching a recorded show... you should see the activity lights blinking away.

Ok, I'll check that out as I record some things this weekend.

GregNico

07-08-05, 09:26 AM

Smooks & Deifan

What I did to test external drive. Without filling up your internal drive, you can extend the record time out of the test show to be a recorded, to say 20 hours ( you will get the recording to go to the larger drive),(you can manually stop the recording at any time when you have enough to test ).

ps..I have read not all the forums updates yet, but in diagnostics for sara models you can verify the type of hard drive in the unit. ( It has been installed with a 160 gb regular ata133 maxtor in previous cases.

tony57

07-08-05, 11:30 AM

Which is the preferred SATA drive to use, the 300g Maxtor Quickview or the 400g Seagate Barracuda? (The Seagate will get you an extra 100g, but I wouldn't be suprised to see both at 500g soon). One advantage to the Maxtor is that it uses a thermostatically controlled fan.

Tony

pbendo

07-11-05, 04:08 PM

I am in Palm Beach County, Florida, using the 8300HD with Adelphia running SARA running v1.87.23.1. I hooked up a WD Caviar 320GB SATA using the cable from Cruz and a Kingwin external box. I got the first 2 screens indicating success (do you wish to format...this external drive works with this DVR...don't disconnect without powering off first) but my recording capacity remained unchanged in the DVR preferences menu. When in the diagnostic screens, both the internal and new external drives show up with appropriate capacity listed for each drive.

I have rebooted (with the power cord actually unplugged for 60 seconds) so many times I have lost count.

Has anybody else had the same problem? (recording capacity unchanged?)
Does anybody have any suggestions?

2 weeks after original install, the usage meter (recording space used/available) has now adjusted for the new drive. The sequence of events goes like this:
1. I keep recording for a couple of weeks until the meter approaches 100%
2. A message pops up saying that there is not enough space to record a sheduled show, and that I must erase some shows to make room.
3. The DVR functionality is unresponsive (i.e. I can't playback any recorded shows, or erase any shows)
4. I reboot via unplugging power cord for approx 15 seconds.
5. I get the standard startup message (this external harddrive will work...)
6. I go to the DVR page and the meter now shows only 20% usage and all shows play as usual!!

My only explanation is that the unit had to hit 100% before the recording meter reset to show the new capacity. Who knows? It works perfectly now, so I'm Happy

tony57

07-12-05, 09:18 AM

4. I reboot via unplugging power cord for approx 15 seconds.
5. I get the standard startup message (this external harddrive will work...)
6. I go to the DVR page and the meter now shows only 20% usage and all shows play as usual!!

My only explanation is that the unit had to hit 100% before the recording meter reset to show the new capacity. Who knows? It works perfectly now, so I'm Happy

You should have received the startup message (and add'l space) after the install.
Programs will be recorded on the drive with the most available space, so it should have immediately started recording on the new drive. (also, there have been reports of buffering problems when the internal drive is maxed out, so you might want to delete some programs from the internal drive)

NorthJersey

07-12-05, 11:29 AM

so what are the pro's/con's of connecting the external HDD to the power-in on the back of the 8300 instead of into a wall outlet or power strip ?

TheScooter

07-12-05, 11:54 AM

I just got a Maxtor 300GB QuickView Expander (QVX) and installed yesterday on a 8300HD through Time Warner Cable in Houston. Works great! I was up and going in 10 minutes. The Quick-Start instruction sheet that came with the drive was simple and straight-forward.

Essentially the sequence I followed:

1. Before powering down the 8300HD, record the amount of recording space currently consumed in the DVR (mine was 68%).
2. Turn-off the 8300HD and remove A/C power cord from 8300HD.
3. Set-up Maxtor QVX and connect eSATA cable to drive and 8300HD
4. Plug-in A/C adaptor to Maxtor QVX drive.
5. Wait 30 seconds.
6. Insert power cord back into 8300HD.
7. Wait for reboot seqence (2-3 mintues).
8. Turn on TV (if it was not already on).
9. Turn on 8300HD
10. 8300 immediately recognized drive was connected and prompted to format drive to work with this DVR. Confirm all the prompts to format drive.
11. This completed in less than 30 seconds. Now check the amount of recording space consumed (mine was now at 28%).

Glorious!

BenDover

07-12-05, 11:55 AM

so what are the pro's/con's of connecting the external HDD to the power-in on the back of the 8300 instead of into a wall outlet or power strip ?

For me this didn't work, or at least wouldn't work for the intial power-up/install. The timing just didn't work out; I found that the HD had to be spun up before the cable box was powered up in order for it to properly see the new external. Haven't tried it since.

tony57

07-12-05, 12:10 PM

I just got a Maxtor 300GB QuickView Expander (QVX) and installed yesterday

What is the noise level of the fan on the Maxtor 300GB? (noisy, quiet?).

davehancock

07-12-05, 12:12 PM

SA directions CLEARLY say:
Do not plug in the power cord for the SATA drive to a switched outlet or to the AC outlet on the 8300HD.
See page 16 (22 of the pdf) of the following:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf

As BenDover says: the HD needs to be up and spinning before the 8300 is powered up. Keep in mind that the 8300 has two powered up states: On (when you are viewing programs) and Standby. It is only powered down when unplugged.

hookbill

07-12-05, 12:38 PM

My wife got me one for my anniversary present (Maxtor 300 GB Sata). She ordered it yesterday and it arrived today. Standard shipping! Most simple thing I've ever had to hook up. Disk space went from 44% to 14%.

So easy to hook up a child can do it. :)

Hookbillswife

07-12-05, 12:48 PM

Just to note, it was the Quickview Expander - made specifically for the SA Explorer 8300 series. Part J08M300

I'd link the part number on the maxstore site, but I can't since I don't have enough posts yet.

tony57

07-12-05, 01:05 PM

I'd link the part number on the maxstore site, but I can't since I don't have enough posts yet.

Here's the link: Maxtor QuickView Expander - 300GB External Drive (http://www.maxstore.com/product.asp?sku=2663284)

Can someone please post on the noise level of the fan?

Tony

hookbill

07-12-05, 01:30 PM

Here's the link: Maxtor QuickView Expander - 300GB External Drive (http://www.maxstore.com/product.asp?sku=2663284)

Can someone please post on the noise level of the fan?

Tony

I didn't even notice it. Must be quiet.

Robert Packman

07-12-05, 03:06 PM

i got my 250 mb drive from discountechnology.com hooked it up last night took 1 take,and a second to read the space left..recorded CSI miami (as a test) everything fine..good help on the phone..Works for me
Cablevision in NJ 8300HD box

CANNON-FODDER

07-12-05, 06:31 PM

A quick question, does the Maxtor [made for DVR] package spin down the drive when not in active use?

v/r,
C-F

smook

07-12-05, 07:52 PM

A quick question, does the Maxtor [made for DVR] package spin down the drive when not in active use?

I will know shortly. I will receive my unit this Friday. Yippie!

I expect and have heard that the fan is variable and does spin down.
Cheers!
-Bill. :rolleyes:

hookbill

07-13-05, 08:00 AM

A quick question, does the Maxtor [made for DVR] package spin down the drive when not in active use?

v/r,
C-F

I just assumed it was always on. I know the 8300 turns off the drive when I turn off the power (unless it's recording). I don't know how to tell if the drive is running on the Maxtor. The light was on when I got up this morning.

NorthJersey

07-13-05, 10:13 AM

just got my 160g qv expander last night and hooked it up. The thing is very silent, only way to know that it's working is the power light on the front of it. I connected the power to the wall instead of the back of the 8300hd (thanks for advise and link to 8300 manual). DVR usage went from 66% to 33%. One thing, I went into the diag pages of the 8300, and found the page that reports about the new 160g drive, but I can't find on which page that the 8300 reports the total disk storage inside/outside the server, in a total #. Which page is that on ?

tony57

07-13-05, 12:29 PM

just got my 160g qv expander last night and hooked it up. The thing is very silent, only way to know that it's working is the power light on the front of it.

The fan will only go on when its hot, so when you first plug it in the fan should be off. If it runs cool enough, the fan may never go on (per the FAQ). Is it quiet when the fan is running? (Is there a fan in the SA 8300? I never hear it)

NorthJersey

07-14-05, 11:18 AM

still haven't heard any fan noise from the QV. don't think the 8300 has a fan, it runs quitely (except when you are recording to the internal drive, at times)

tony57

07-14-05, 01:05 PM

still haven't heard any fan noise from the QV.

Excellent. I'm currently using a seagate, but the fan from the enclosure is driving me nuts. I'm going to try another enclosure, but if its still noisy, I'll switch to the maxtor (even though I'll lose 100g)

Tony

Robbo

07-16-05, 01:05 AM

What is the warranty on the QV?

DSperber

07-16-05, 02:45 AM

Just tonight replaced the Seagate 400gb (ST3400832AS) I originally purchased with a Maxtor Maxline III 300gb (7L300S0). So far, 100% of the performance problems and glitches I've had with controlling "live" TV (both SD and HD) as well as playing back recordings (both SD and HD) seem to have disappeared completely!

I must therefore attribute all of my previous difficulties to the Seagate 400gb drive, despite its claim to be "state of the art".

Aside from being $120 less expensive (yes, 100gb less capacity, I know) the Maxtor seems to be essentially completely silent inside the very same EP-301SA enclosure (with the built-in fan on the bottom). This is in stark contrast to the very noisy Seagate. I had originally thought the spinning/blowing noise was from the fan, but now that I've replaced the drive and things are near-silent I have to conclude that the fan in the enclosure is noise-free as is the new Maxtor MAxline III drive, and it is the Seagate 400gb drive which was making the noise.

Also, the Maxtor drive has a 16mb cache whereas the Seagate drive only has an 8mb cache. Surely this has to be a contributing factor to my so-far glitch-free experience (limited though it is at the moment). At the very least, it can't hurt and can only help performance I would think.

Also, when I removed the Seagate drive from the enclosure it was quite hot. I don't know if the fan speed in the enclosure is temperature sensitive, so that the whole thing will once again become noisy if the fan speed increases as the drive heats up, but for now it doesn't seem like that's happening. And maybe the Maxtor just runs cooler.

Finally, the internal drive in the SA8300 is also a Maxtor (4R160L0), and the newly available QuickView "expander in a box" product comes from Maxtor. I know these are all standard SATA drives, but perhaps the firmware and software is just "happier" with a Maxtor "partner" externally. I know... ridiculous.

Nevertheless, the Seagate is being returned to Newegg tomorrow and the Maxtor begins a new life of use as an external drive for the SA8300. Hopefully it will continue to be a perfect one as it currently looks like it will be.

My review: avoid Seagate. Go with Maxtor.

DCIFRTHS

07-16-05, 03:03 AM

I purchased a Quickview Expander drive directly from Maxtor, and it arrived in a white box. Did anyone else receive theirs in a white box?

BenDover

07-16-05, 09:16 AM

Matt_Stevens

07-16-05, 10:11 AM

An off tipic question. Any of you guys have Firewire enabled on your 8300's yet? I've been trying to get an answer from my cable company )Tele-Media) on this, but they won't return my calls. I currently have two 3250 boxes with Firewire enabled, but would trade them in a second if I could get 8300's with Firewire enabled.

BenDover

07-16-05, 10:21 AM

Jeff Williams

07-16-05, 12:43 PM

Yes the firewire ports are active on some boxes. I have one that is, but have yet to get my PC to recognize the 8300. I've been using the SATA port with a 250GB drive for months and it has worked great.

I tried the FireBus software and the software in the How to record via IEEE 1394 (Firewire) to Windows XP, neither with any good results. Actually froze or crashed the box a few times. Here are the software versions on my box.

ROM Image 1.87.23.1
OS 6.14.43.1
SARA 1.87.23.1
PowerKEY LIB 3.8.1.1
HAL Driver 1.0.39.109111
firebus 1.9.11.1
fbdtcp 1.3.4.1
PHAL3 Driver 3.5.12.1005

davehancock

07-16-05, 01:23 PM

I've seen this topic before and it baffles me. I have two 8300HD boxes and neither of them even has a firewire port!

Scientific Atlanta has models of the 8300HD both with and without Firewire.

Part Number for 8300HD with 160GB drive and HDMI: 4006190

Part Number for 8300HD with 160GB drive and HDMI and Dual IEEE 1394: 4006781

Lots of cable companys purchased the 4006190 units.

dt_dc

07-16-05, 01:28 PM

As of July 1, 2005 Scientific Atlanta is no longer selling 8300HDs without Firewire (via FCC reg):
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/7004920.pdf

All new 8300HDs sold by Scientific Atlanta will have a Firewire port.

Hookbillswife

07-16-05, 06:25 PM

I purchased a Quickview Expander drive directly from Maxtor, and it arrived in a white box. Did anyone else receive theirs in a white box?

According to Hoobill: Yep.

smook

07-17-05, 10:51 PM

Got mine in a white box too. QuickView Expander by Maxtor.

But I've had some interesting problems.

After hooking up on Friday July.15.2005 everything seemed fine. All the normal prompts of external drive found/please format etc.

Today Sunday, all shows recorded after the hook-up cannot be viewed on the 8300HD. The DVR playback channel says no shows currently playing error. But I can view all previous saved shows to July.15 (before install of QV) on the HD of the 8300HD. Now I also note that I can no longer record any shows either. If I disconnect the QV it works correctly and lets me record and playback, but with the QV no recording is allowed. (It doesn't even turn RED in the box to denote recording etc)

Do you figure that the QV is now bad or is my 8300HD mixed up? I've tried to reformat the QV and it says it has done this, but I get the same results by resetting etc. HELLLLP!

Bill. :eek:

I've disconnected the QV now. All functions and recording now work again on the 8300HD. Recording allowed again. I'll guessing that the QV went bad, since the 8300HD works without the QV, but with the QV it does NOT allow recording on the TV guide channel now. (I find that quite odd). Is it the 8300HD or the QV?

hookbill

07-18-05, 11:22 AM

All I can say is since I hooked up the QV things are running great. Come to think of it I don't think I've seen gliches in recordings as previously I had seen.

Just put me in the happy camper section. :)

NorthJersey

07-18-05, 11:50 AM

I purchased a Quickview Expander drive directly from Maxtor, and it arrived in a white box. Did anyone else receive theirs in a white box?

that's how mine came from buy.com. I thought it was just cheap packaging by that site, but I guess it was Maxtor's decision to put the drive in the white box.

oh, and my QV has been working perfectly since the day I've connected it. another happy camper

smook

07-18-05, 11:59 AM

Some updates,

I've got a RMA number for return now for the QV and also permission for Rogerscable to get a new 8300HD.

I'll try the new QV first and see how it goes tomorrow and then if it fails again, go with replacing the 8300HD. One or both should fix my problem. (hoping!!)

-Bill. :rolleyes:

Is it possible to damage the QV ? Just wondering.

DCIFRTHS

07-19-05, 03:22 AM

that's how mine came from buy.com. I thought it was just cheap packaging by that site, but I guess it was Maxtor's decision to put the drive in the white box.

oh, and my QV has been working perfectly since the day I've connected it. another happy camper

Interesting. I couldn't find it listed on the buy.com web site. That's why I bought directly from Maxtor.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with a white box :eek:

NorthJersey

07-19-05, 10:28 AM

Interesting. I couldn't find it listed on the buy.com web site. That's why I bought directly from Maxtor.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with a white box :eek:

I found it on buy.com by searching for the part number instead of the name QuickView

tony57

07-19-05, 10:38 AM

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with a white box :eek:

I wonder if the reason for the 'white box' might be that maxtor intended to sell this through the cable companies, but then decided to sell direct to the consumer.

bcoombs

07-19-05, 11:48 AM

TexasConsumer1

07-19-05, 11:02 PM

Success here with TWC in Corpus Christi TX software version Sara V1.85.20.a7: Maxtor QVX 300GB - $283.14 including shipping from Page Computers. Verified 72% of available HD space before installation. I disconnected the power plug to the 8300HD. Powered up the Maxtor QVX & then connected the SATA cable to the DVR. I then reconnected the power cable to the DVR and waited for the unit to boot. I turned the unit on and it said that there was an external HD connected that had bad data on it. Do you want to format. If so, Press B. I pressed B and the message disappeared and my tv program came on. I checked the available HD space and there was no change. I waited a prudent 20 minutes or so and turned off the DVR & disconnected the power cable to the DVR waited about 10 Seconds and then reconnected the power cord to the DVR and let the unit re-boot. I then turned on the power switch and got a message that said a usable external hard drive is connected. I checked the available HD Space and alas! It went from 72% down to 24%. Thanks guys, This is a great forum. Special thanks to Hall.

smook

07-20-05, 07:49 AM

I just received my second QV. First being DOA. How do you find out the sara version on you 8300HD ? Can you upgrade the version?
-Bill. :confused:

dt_dc

07-20-05, 10:10 AM

How do you find out the sara version on you 8300HD?See the Diagnostic Mode and Finding SARA Software Version sections in the following post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4682052&&#post4682052Can you upgrade the version?No, you can't. Your cable company can. The cable company upgrades on their head-end and the new software gets rolled out to all the clients.

NorthJersey

07-20-05, 11:44 AM

conanb

07-21-05, 04:27 PM

I just talked to a friend who works for Maxtor. The quickview drive has firmware that reduces the amount of error correction that occurs in the drive.
A high amount of error correction is not necessary or desireable for video files.

swankdaddy7

07-22-05, 05:49 PM

Is there picture quality loss across a HD-DVR (SA 8000)? I'm wondering if getting a standard digital cable box from Comcast would yield a better picture on my Samsung 6168 DLP. Any thoughts?

bcoombs

07-22-05, 06:01 PM

Is there picture quality loss across a HD-DVR (SA 8000)? I'm wondering if getting a standard digital cable box from Comcast would yield a better picture on my Samsung 6168 DLP. Any thoughts?

If there are any losses, I sure haven't noticed. The picture is outstanding, better than I had on the 3100HD (non-DVR) that I replaced.

davehancock

07-22-05, 06:06 PM

The digital signal recorded is the same as carried on cable - hence there is no loss in PQ due to the recording. However, the quality of the D to A converters in the 8000HD is not the best - so you will get a better picture with a 8300HD. Also, the 8300HD has an active HDMI output, which might give a yet better picture with your set.

vegggas

07-23-05, 02:56 AM

The 8000 and 8300 share the same high quality D-A converters, which only apply to the component outputs anyway. DVI and HDMI do not use any conversion and output the digital signal. The 8300 looks a bit better, especially in TW markets, because it has more dedicated video memory while other applications are in use. A DVR recording a digital signal will not look any diffrent than any other digital cable STB viewing. There is some degradation of analog signal recording (analog converted to digital for storage) if using some older versions of the ATI drivers (again better memory management and is varible across systems).

vegggas

davehancock

07-23-05, 11:16 AM

Dave,

Thanks for the clarification on why the 8300HD looks better than the 8000HD. I assume that you are also saying that (for HD programs) that the improvement in PQ on the 8300HD is true for BOTH live and recroded programs.

vegggas

07-24-05, 08:42 PM

Found some specific internal Cable company details on external drives.

------------------------------------------------------------
SATA External Hard Drives Compatible with Scientific-Atlanta DVRs

As of July 2005, the two Maxtor SATA (Serial Advanced Technology
Architecture) external hard drives listed in the following table have
been tested and are known to work with the Scientific-Atlanta Explorer
8300 series DVRs (including the 8300 HD, 8300 MR, and 8300 HD-MR DVRs).

SATA-to-DVR Compatibility Table
These SATA external hard drives Are compatible with these DVRs
Maxtor QuickView Expander
160 GB External Drive, Part # P08K160
300 GB External Drive, Part # J08M300
Explorer 8300 HD
Explorer 8300 MR (not available in all markets)
Explorer 8300 HD-MR (not available in all markets)

Note: The DVR SATA port complies with FCC's mandate for Copy Protection.

Educating the Customer
Because [cable company] does not sell, rent, install, or repair external hard
drives, customers are asked to contact the manufacturer of the SATA
external hard drive for more information.

Maxtor: www.maxtor.com
Seagate: www.seagate.com
Western Digital: www.westerndigital.com
------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like that the 8300 series DVR's have been tested with the Maxtor Quickview expander, but cable co's will not be offering support of connected devices. They will also not be selling or supporting this feature in any way. SA has enabled the specific Hardware without any intervention from cable co's versions of software, except that copy protection must be turned on for the SATA port to work.

vegggas

Jon SS

07-24-05, 10:13 PM

I think my external hard drive (maxtor 300gb) got corrupted a bit during a power outage last week. I keep noticing some skipping whilst watching recorded programs. Tried hard and soft reboots, slightly improved results. Does anybody know how to reformat the external drive (without reformatting the internal drive)?

If you reformat the internal drive, will it automatically reformat the external drive at the same time?

Thanks.

Carl Sims

07-25-05, 09:45 AM

Jon SS

07-25-05, 09:53 AM

Carl Sims

07-25-05, 12:31 PM

I tried to reformat the drives, but I think that only the internal drive got formatted (because it did not take very long) but can not tell. I don't have a SATA connection on my PC. When you mean remove the partition, do you mean take it out of the enclosure? I have an old SA8000 - does the SATA connection work on these models?

In order to remove the partition from the drive, you will need to be able to connect it to your pc and then use either fdisk or the disk management utility in Windows. But you have said that you don't have a SATA connection to your pc, so this idea won't help you.

tenguru

07-25-05, 02:47 PM

LYU370

07-25-05, 04:05 PM

Go into the diag screens. One of them tells you how much disk space is in use on each drive.

conanb

07-26-05, 10:04 AM

Info from a Maxtor engineer:

The DiamondMAx 9 is a 7200 RPM drive, and while it has some of the video
streaming commands built into its firmware, it would not have the full
"Quick View" technology that is in the Maxtor expander.

The main difference would be with regards to error handling, as the DM 9 will go
to "heroic measures" to attempt to recover a sector error. This could
lead to loss of image or blackouts as some worst case recoveries could
take as long as 30 seconds. Quick View would limit error recovery to
the range of milliseconds and then give up, showing no more than maybe a
lost frame at worse.

A DM 9 in the small external box with out cooling, would soon fry itself since it would be powered on all the time.

I think most "Quick View" drives are 5400 RPM. The extra rotational speed does not factor into the drives ability to be able to run 3 streams of data as the 5400 RPM drives are fully capable of recording to streams, while playing another. There is no advantage to the higher RPM drive, it will just have a little more seek idle time, while still generating
the rotational heat.

tenguru

07-26-05, 11:34 AM

Thanks for info... very helpful in making decision..
Ig I coud only find out the warrenty on the expander...

The drive I was going to get was the Maxline III ... it has a 5 year warrenty 300 gigs.. fast and cool..1,000,000 MTFR.... 16mb buffer.. meant for video streaming.. $175 from newegg... I use one in my computer and it is fast and quite and cool..
So all in all I would risk the expander at 3 yr warrenty , but 1 yerar is a joke.

Anyone that has an expander please state warrenty.
Thanks for the help
Al

OrangeKid

07-26-05, 12:13 PM

tenguru:

The documentation that came with my Maxtor Quickview Expander 300 GB drive indicates that it has a one year limited warranty.

tenguru

07-26-05, 02:55 PM

tenguru:

The documentation that came with my Maxtor Quickview Expander 300 GB drive indicates that it has a one year limited warranty.

Thanks....
That's strange that they shorten the warrenty on drive as I know maxtor gives 3 to 5 on bare drives..
npw I really don't know what to do..
I guess I will get the drive from newegg and the kit from buy.co as I have a $20
off coupon....
Max extender kit $271 shipped...
newegg Maxline III 300 gig $175 +case =33 + cable $20- Appox $240
I was going to get a second 8300 anyway so maybe I will try both and let you know result... Just like a 5 yr warrenty on a HD that wil be going for years without being turned off... don't sleep much in Vegas :) :)

tenguru

07-26-05, 03:56 PM

tenguru

07-26-05, 04:02 PM

ATHENA POWER EB-2316SATA 3.5" ALUMINUM SATA HARD DRIVE ENCLOSURE KIT W/ EXTERNAL PORT CABLE $26.50

SKU: BA20606Mfg. Part No: EB2316SATAMore Info
This is same epower case

KINGWIN SS-350S-BK BLACK 3.5" ALUMINUM EXT.HDD ENCLOSURE FOR SATA TO SATA $28.00

SKU: AA33120Mfg. Part No: N/AMore Info

MAXTOR 300GB 6L300S0 SATA150 7200RPM 16MB HDD *SATA power cord is required $159.00
This is exact drive in expander kit
At newegg for $148

SKU: AA34720Mfg. Part No: 6L300S0More Info

:) :) :)

sanker

07-26-05, 09:24 PM

Hi,

First post. Hi All. Been a Tivo nut for the past 5 years but now that Adelphia has dual tuners and hd recording and YOU CAN PLUG IN AN EXTERNAL DRIVE!!!!! Are you kidding? No brainer, I'm jumping ship to cable. I used to go around upgrading all my friend's and family's Tivos. Big hassle. Biggest reason for the jump is the lack of NESN in hd on D*. Gotta watch the Bruins on my 50" sony rear projection LCD!!
so, on to this post....

Read through the first 7 pages and now I just want to get the crib notes version :)
What is the consensus on what's the largest drive you can get? I want to get

400g
Hitachi GST $329
can you put in a 400g in the external enclosure and plug it into the 8300hd?

then, the enclosure from newegg or addonics
I'm leaning toward the plastic since the aluminum does not have a fan (or did I read that wrong?)

looks like this one is the cheapest...
ATHENA POWER EB-2316SATA 3.5" ALUMINUM SATA HARD DRIVE ENCLOSURE KIT W/ EXTERNAL PORT CABLE
from mwave
if the fan is crap (most are) I would solder in a sunon fan ($13)

any info would be greatly appreciated.
-Sean

BenDover

07-26-05, 10:13 PM

sanker

07-27-05, 07:03 AM

tony57

07-27-05, 10:11 AM

Hi,

Read through the first 7 pages and now I just want to get the crib notes version :)
What is the consensus on what's the largest drive you can get? I want to get
400g Hitachi GST $329
can you put in a 400g in the external enclosure and plug it into the 8300hd?

-Sean

400g will work (I have a 400g seagate working with the 8300).
However, I bought this before I found out about the Maxtor Quickview (http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Maxtor/menuitem.ba88f6d7cf664718376049b291346068/?channelpath=/en_us/Products/ATA%20Hard%20Drives/Digital%20Entertainment/QuickView%20Expander). Its 100g less, but its a pure plug-n-play (no need to buy an enclosure or cables).

Also, the quickview has a thermostatic controlled fan (so its not always on), and reports in this forum are that its very quiet, if not silent. (FAQ (http://www.maxstore.com/qvx/QVX_FAQ.asp) )

Take a look (and read the posts in this forum on the quickview) before deciding.

sanker

07-27-05, 12:48 PM

For another $100 you get the 400g. I'm a computer guy, so putting a disk in an enclosure is not a problem. I just want to get the quitest drive/enclosure.
-Sean

OrangeKid

07-27-05, 01:44 PM

I own a Maxtor Quickview 300 GB Expander drive and I can verify that it works perfectly and is essentially silent. I have had it about a month.

The only issue I had was during installation as it took four tries before the SA 8300 HD recognized the Quickview and offered to format the drive. Others have stated that the format can be forced by hitting the info button on the remote.

BenDover

07-27-05, 02:45 PM

Noise and device life span are always a big concern in my home theater. In my DirecTivos I used Maxtor drives with FWB mechanisms and replaced the stock fans with Sunon or Panaflo (Panasonic fans) with excellent dba to cfm ratios. How quiet is the Seagate? I'm hesitant to use the Hitachi (IBM) since I had many problems with IBM's 75GXP drives (loud, failures after a couple of years etc). Who has the quietest 400g drive with the best warranty? I also read a couple of posts that said the Seagate was loud and another that said it was quiet. I would be interested in anyone that has had their drives running for more than a couple of months. I've seen a few drives get noisy over time. Not having a fan is a death sentince IMHO. Using a larger case with one of the above mentioned fans seems to be a no brainer. Keeping your electronics as cool as possible can only be a good thing. Will a heat sink/aluminum enclose cool the drive a bit, sure. Will it be as cool as one with air flow and a fan, doubtful.

-Sean

The Seagate is very quiet...I think they are known to be some of the quietest drives. The only noise I hear is the clicking of the drive head(s) doing its thing when recording/reading.

I can certainly understand your statement about cooling, but honestly, in this case, no cooling is necessary. Hard drives see much harsher environments when stuffed inside a computer case with all the other stuff jammed in there, including a number of other drives that are normally in very close proximity to one another.

sanker

07-28-05, 10:18 AM

Install was yesterday.

Cons:
•interface looks like a Micro$oft product
•remote looks like Micro$oft designed it
•interface looks like a Micro$oft product
•They gave me cheesy component cables which I replaced with an HDMI monster cable
(what is the best price/quality HDMI cable, I'm not keeping this $120 monster cable)

Pros:
•I can watch the Bruins in HD
•I can record the Bruins in HD
•If the box's hdmi craps the bed, I get a new one FREE
•If anything does wrong with the box I get a new one FREE
•It didn't cost a thing
•I will add 400g of space for $400 (HDTivo would have cost me $1100 to get 500g)
•No more "searching for signal"
•All my locals and I didn't have to wait for the 6 weeks to get turned down for local HD
•Picture quality is amazing

Next comes the 400g addition.

sdsilver

07-28-05, 01:53 PM

Bought the Maxtor QV Expander 300GB. Hooked it up per instructions. Worked first time!!!! Have Adelphia here in Port St. Lucie with Sara v1.87.23.1. Am absolutely thrilled. Can't wait for an even larger hard drive. Thanks to you all for your educated posts.

JFR0317

07-29-05, 09:58 AM

I just got a Maxtor Quickview Expander 300GB drive yesterday, and while the installation went smoothly, the fan seems to be running continually and is quite loud. The drive is sitting on an open shelf with plenty of ventilation, and the ambient temperature in the room is around 76 degrees F. Based on the other posts about how quiet the unit is, it seems like I must have a bad one.

Any other thoughts before I start trying to send it back to Maxtor?

Thanks.

OrangeKid

07-29-05, 11:05 AM

bcoombs

07-29-05, 12:03 PM

There's a fan?!?

JFR0317

07-29-05, 12:17 PM

bcoombs, Maxtor's website has the following info in a FAQ about the Quickview Expander:

"It is important not to obstruct the front or rear panels of the QuickView Expander drive. The QuickView Expander drive comes equipped with front air vents and a thermostatically controlled rear fan. The fan operates when a predetermined drive temperature is reached. You should only hear the fan running occasionally, or you may never hear it running at all. If you hear the fan running constantly you will want to reduce the ambient (surrounding) air temperature in and around the components in your entertainment center. Some components will have vent holes in the tops and sides allowing heat to escape. Do not stack the QuickView Expander drive on top of, or block the vent holes of other components in your entertainment center."

Since I don't have my Quickview Expander in an enclosed area nor near any heat-producing components, I'm assuming I have a problem with the thermostatically controlled fan.

cdp1276

07-31-05, 10:55 AM

I recently purchased the Maxtor QV 300GB on amazon for a decent price. I think I had to do a search on the model number before I found it. Again, the model # is J08M300 for anyone interested (thanks to Mrs. Hookbill). I'm an amazon prime member, so I had free two-day shipping (I guess I buy too much from them...). Hooked it up per their instructions, and have had zero problems. Very happy!!!

I just ordered mine from PCNation.com with the best price $290.22 over Amazon & Buy.com including FREE 2 day shipping. See:
http://www.pcnation.com/web/details.asp?affid=303&item=G04532

Robbo

08-01-05, 12:25 AM

tenguru:

The documentation that came with my Maxtor Quickview Expander 300 GB drive indicates that it has a one year limited warranty.

I'm really at a loss why anyone would go the QV Expander route if all you get is a one year warranty. The hard drive will eventually fail, most likely within 3 years (5 years of owning several ReplayTVs have taught me this).

If you assemble the pieces yourself (not rocket science-- order drive/enclosure from Newegg, order cable from Cruz systems, put drive in enclosure, attach cable to enclosure) you not only save ~ $50, you get a 5x warranty.

vegggas

08-01-05, 01:28 AM

I Ordered the QV expander from buy dot com. $271 after $20 off coupon and free shipping. Supposed to get another $25 back on the order, so it should break down to $246. I went the easy and Proven route, by a tested and approved manufacturer. If ater 1 year theres a problem, I'll simply replace the drive myself. More likely, I will be using the multi-room DVR and or the DVR with DVD burner combo by this time next year anyway...

vegggas

tenguru

08-01-05, 03:28 PM

I'm really at a loss why anyone would go the QV Expander route if all you get is a one year warranty. The hard drive will eventually fail, most likely within 3 years (5 years of owning several ReplayTVs have taught me this).

If you assemble the pieces yourself (not rocket science-- order drive/enclosure from Newegg, order cable from Cruz systems, put drive in enclosure, attach cable to enclosure) you not only save ~ $50, you get a 5x warranty.

Just to set this all straight... I got both... the QV exp from buy.com.. $271....
with email coupon from buy.com... also cable esat to sata .. $20 free shipping

New.egg.... Maxline III 300gig $173 (really the best-fastest-quitest-coolest-1,000,000
MTBF hrs- 5yr warnt) case-E-POWER EP-301SA.. $33 (MWAVE $26.50 )

Totals....you can see you save about $ 50 to 75 and get a 5yr extended warranty on something that is going to be on constantly (at my house >:)

Performance = Can't tell the diference.... sorry both are quiet and fast....
no skipping on any shows... recorded 40 hrs of hd & sd played back ect

:) :)

tenguru

08-01-05, 03:45 PM

I am going to install the QVExpander on my friends 8300hd as that is the one he wants... or else I would send back... Great unit..don't get me wrong... but a rip off in warrenty.
I just placed an order for 1 more 300 gig Max and 2 250 gigs...and another case
I will use the 300 for another expander and the Update Maxtor MaXLine III 7L250S0 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: 7L250S0 $128.00 on sale...Almasot as fast in raid as raptor..
.total for my computer 1/2 terrabyte for appox $250 quiet and fast and cool &5yrs

So for $128 and $26.50 case $20 cable you get a tested great quiet 8300 expander with 5 yr warrenty appox $179
Add $45 and go to the 300gig..........$225

All this I have now done and tested
all info is in tese last 2 posts....it took me less than 3 minutes to put the drive in the case and I am a KLUDTZ

These Maxline drives are amazing!!!!! :)

pepar

08-04-05, 12:11 PM

whos going to be the first to hook up a 2 TB RAID array to their box..drool:

My cable company tells me that the SATA on my 8300HD will be activated in "the 4th qtr" and I'm researching how I would attach a RAID array to it. Can anyone point me to a "how to" on this? I'm having trouble coming up with a design that will "look" like a single drive to the box.

BenDover

08-04-05, 12:38 PM

I've been after something like this as well but as far as I can tell, the implementation of SATA on the 8300 won't allow an array of SATA drives...if there is some piece of hardware or hardware/computer combo that can fool the 8300 into believing that a single device was attached, that would do the trick, but I haven't found anything of this sort available.

dt_dc

08-04-05, 01:48 PM

sanker

08-04-05, 05:33 PM

ok, got:
EP-301SA enclosure and Seagate ST3400832AS 400gb drive from macmall, and the esata to sata cable from sonnettech (tomorrow delivery). Looking at the enclosure it sure looks like I need to bring power to the drive. The powerbrick seems to only power the fan and led. Do I need an internal sata power cable? I'm pretty sure the sata-estat cable does not carry power no? please advise.
I obviously side with the get a 300 or 400 g drive/enclosure and get the 5 year warranty. Having to deal with the above hassles is well worth the extra 100g and 4 years of added warranty.
-Sean

pepar

08-04-05, 05:46 PM

I believe the Silicon Image SteelVine products present as a single disk.
http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=47&ptid=2

That's kindof their whole point.

Some other companies have talked about doing something similar ... but I don't know any on the market yet.

* Simple - no setup required, just plug into a SATA host
* Reliable - provides enhanced data security from loss due to disk failure
* Affordable - a high-value solution, at a fraction of the cost for traditional RAID systems
* Scalable - up to 2 TB per appliance - multiple appliances can be used

Sounds like it touches all the bases. Being $ilicon Image, I have to wonder about the cost though; don't imagine it's anywhere near a DIY unit. Wonder what makes it tick? A headless Linux "box" perhaps?

pepar

08-04-05, 06:14 PM

The Silicon Image SV2000 lists at $3295 for 1TB. Scratch that one from my list!

BenDover

08-04-05, 06:22 PM

It isn't just the price that will keep you away, I'm fairly certain they implement the port replication that is specifically indicated by SA to not be supported...

pepar

08-04-05, 06:24 PM

It isn't just the price that will keep you away, I'm fairly certain they implement the port replication that is specifically indicated by SA to not be supported...

Cool, I like it when things I can't afford won't work anyway. :D

sanker

08-04-05, 07:49 PM

duh, should have put it together before I posted. disk slips into the data and power connector. I had it in my head that it would mount further away from the connector and one of the sata cables would connect the two. So, why is there an external sata power? Initial impression is the disk and enclosure are whisper quiet. Still think I'll put it behind the rack of AV stuff since it doesn't really fit in.

-Sean

tony57

08-05-05, 10:15 AM

Initial impression is the disk and enclosure are whisper quiet. Still think I'll put it behind the rack of AV stuff since it doesn't really fit in.
-Sean

Same set-up here. Its quiet, but if everything is shut-down in my system, I can just about hear the drive working. I put larger rubber feet on the unit and it helped a bit. The added storage space is great (and needed for HD recordings).

jtomdd

08-05-05, 10:32 AM

I've got a Seagate 300G SATA which has been working beautifully. I just tried to go to diags as I have done many times before. Instead things locked up and the display went to "hddf", eventually followed by a reboot. It then became clear that "hddf" meant it was formatting the drives. I had lost all recorded programs and shceduled recordings. Not a serious loss, life threatining or anything, but irritating.

Do I just put this down to "stuff happens" or was I in some way responsible?

pepar

08-05-05, 10:41 AM

vegggas

08-05-05, 11:43 AM

Those of you with drives equal to or greater than 300GB, can you check your partition information in the diagnostics pages (last three pages)? During testing, I'm seeing a partition limit discrepancy at 300GB.
On the HDD Info Page, the 300GB drive reports as a 279GB formatted space.
On the Partition Info Page for the external drive, the 279GB formatted space shows only 259GB available on the AV partition.
The internal 160GB drive formats as 152GB with a 150GB AV partition.
Can someone confirm similar results with another 300GB drive?
Those with larger drives, are the results showing increased usable partition size, or is the usable AV partition staying at only 259GB?

This is one of the only issues I've found so far during my testing, and a detailed report will follow. So far, the Quickview Expander is a winner for ease of use and WAF (even let her hook it up for installation analysis).

vegggas

pepar

08-05-05, 11:56 AM

vegggas

08-05-05, 01:11 PM

Have you considered the diifferent ways of measuring hard drive space? For example, the larger hard drive is "called" 160 GB, but it's routinely listed as ~152 GB. Perhaps one spec is measured with one method and the others are using a different one.
Yes, I'm aware of that. I know the internal drive is 160GB and formats to 152GB. There are two 1GB PARTITIONS for buffer data and OS, and that leaves 150GB for the AV PARTITION. This information was put into the post as a reference for the internal drive so that people would know that advertised space(160) vs. formatted space(152) vs. usable recording space(150) is different.
My concern is the external drive PARTITION information does not match up. The 300GB drive formats to 279GB (as reported in diagnostics). The AV PARTITION though, is only 259GB in size (as reported in diagnostics). I'm trying to determine if there is a physical AV PARTITION LIMIT of 259GB in the firmware of the STB when using large drives. Those with larger drives should easily be able to determine the usable AV partition drive size to see if does go past this limit, or if it's not supported and a waste of money.

vegggas

pepar

08-05-05, 02:14 PM

. I'm trying to determine if there is a physical AV PARTITION LIMIT of 259GB in the firmware of the STB when using large drives. Those with larger drives should easily be able to determine the usable AV partition drive size to see if does go past this limit, or if it's not supported and a waste of money.

vegggas

Gotcha!

BenDover

08-05-05, 05:00 PM

veggas...I'll check my 400gb setup tonight and report back for you...

BenDover

08-06-05, 10:11 AM

hmmm, i can't get any info on either drive on the last few pages so i can't verify the partition sizes...strange, maybe i need to cycle the power and restart the unit.

pepar

08-06-05, 10:52 AM

hmmm, i can't get any info on either drive on the last few pages so i can't verify the partition sizes...strange, maybe i need to cycle the power and restart the unit.

Don't kniow if this is your problem or not, but on mine many of the "pages" contain no data when first displayed; it takes a few seconds - polling the firmware/hardware, perhaps.

vegggas

08-06-05, 02:36 PM

Here are the three pages on my system.
HDD INFO - Page 32/34 (see image HDD_INFO.jpg) Notice Formatted CAPACITY for each drive (Drive 1=152, Drive 2=279)
PARTITION INFO - Page 33/34 (see image Drive1.jpg) Notice each Partiton size (3 total) adds up to usable capacity (1+150+1=152)
PARTITION INFO - Page 34/34 (see image Drive2.jpg) Notice each Partition does not equal usable capacity (1+259+1=261 instead of 279)

SARA is: 1.87.16.1
OS is: 6.14.11.1

So far, I have not seen a usable AV partition that exceeds the 259 GB limit possibly imposed by the firmware. I would like to see if any of the larger drives installed take advantage of the extra space. If it doesn't, then lager drives would be a waste of money in this application.
At this point, I am only reccomending the Quickdrive Expander 160GB and 300GB drive kits. This is for correct drive size, type (less error correcting) and included 6.5 ft e-SATA cable and 12ft power cable, stand, feet, etc. This is not to say other setups don't work, but that the APPROVED setup DOES work, so far, flawlessly. A detailed report will follow after I get more information.

vegggas

BenDover

08-06-05, 04:54 PM

This is weird, all of my pages, 32-34, show "Unavailable" for everything...I let it sit on each page for some time but the information did not change...

hyedipin

08-08-05, 09:42 AM

What kind of files do you see when you connect your HDD to the PC after recording from 8300?
Thanks.

sanker

08-08-05, 09:58 AM

400g seagate disk (macmall) in enclosure from newegg
update:
turned everything off.
plugged in the sata cable
turned on the sata drive
wait 30 seconds
plug in then press power button on 8300hd
message comes up if I want to format
I say yes, nothing happens :)
I then press button on remote which tells 8300hd "yes"
drive is usable. recording capacity went from 69% full to 17%.
I'll check the diag. screens tonight for usable space. sure hope there is not a 300g limit.
-Sean

pepar

08-08-05, 10:09 AM

pepar

08-08-05, 10:15 AM

So far, I have not seen a usable AV partition that exceeds the 259 GB limit possibly imposed by the firmware. I would like to see if any of the larger drives installed take advantage of the extra space. If it doesn't, then lager drives would be a waste of money in this application.
At this point, I am only reccomending the Quickdrive Expander 160GB and 300GB drive kits. This is for correct drive size, type (less error correcting) and included 6.5 ft e-SATA cable and 12ft power cable, stand, feet, etc. This is not to say other setups don't work, but that the APPROVED setup DOES work, so far, flawlessly. A detailed report will follow after I get more information.

vegggas

It's not out of the question that there is a capacity limit; MS-DOS and the various flavors of Windows have had limits on addressable memory and storage since day 1. Ninety-nine point nine-nine-nine-nine percent of users have never bumped into them, but they've been there. And how excited can the powers be about us all having terabytes of their content stored for use and "abuse?"

sanker

08-08-05, 12:25 PM

vegggas

08-08-05, 01:05 PM

Just talked my daughter through getting into diagnostic mode.

#1=152g, #2=372g
looks like I have two bits of good news. The DVR is a 160g internal disk (I thought it was 80g for some reason) and the 400g I added is formatted as a 400g!!

-Sean
We know it FORMATS as a 400 gig drive, but what is the PARTITION size? Look at the screens I supplied in my previous post to see the partition information. You will not gain any recording space unless the partition is increased.
All but the first run of 8300 DVR's had 160GB internal drives.
vegggas

sanker

08-08-05, 07:07 PM

ok, partition size: 353
(for what it's worth, free space listed as 292)

-Sean

vegggas

08-09-05, 01:20 AM

ok, partition size: 353
(for what it's worth, free space listed as 292)
-Sean
Thanks for the feedback! For a few days, it looked like a 300GB drive was the largest usable drive in terms of partition space.

Anyone else with hard numbers?

vegggas

BenDover

08-09-05, 07:05 AM

The thing that sticks in my mind is that 300GB isn't one of those legacy limitations that have ever existed; the last I can recall was 137GB.

pepar

08-09-05, 08:25 AM

The thing that sticks in my mind is that 300GB isn't one of those legacy limitations that have ever existed; the last I can recall was 137GB.

Am I correct that you're thinking about DOS/Windows? If so, these boxes most likely run neither; the last person they'd want involved is Billy Boy.

tony57

08-09-05, 10:08 AM

Anyone else with hard numbers?
vegggas

Why do you need the partition size?
I was at 50% usage on a 160g before I added the external drive. If I add a 300g the 50% will drop to 17% (50% / (460/160). If I add 400g it should drop to 14%.
When I added my 400g, the % used droped as expected, so I know I'm using the full 400g.

pepar

08-09-05, 10:41 AM

Why do you need the partition size?
I was at 50% usage on a 160g before I added the external drive. If I add a 300g the 50% will drop to 17% (50% / (460/160). If I add 400g it should drop to 14%.
When I added my 400g, the % used droped as expected, so I know I'm using the full 400g.

I think vegggas is still not 100% confident that there's no 300GB limit . . .

BenDover

08-09-05, 11:18 AM

Am I correct that you're thinking about DOS/Windows? If so, these boxes most likely run neither; the last person they'd want involved is Billy Boy.

Good point! :o

vegggas

08-09-05, 01:06 PM

pepar

08-09-05, 01:11 PM

So far, the yields of larger extended drives are:
160GB Drive = 150GB AV partition
300GB Drive = 259GB AV partition
400GB Drive = 353GB AV partition (thanks Sean)

The partition size is the ONLY thing that dictates how much data you can store on a given drive. If the firmware does not recognize a larger partition size, then there would be a limit to the information able to be recorded. Both Replay and Tivo went through limitations at one point before work arounds were found. I was just hoping that this is not the case with the 8300 series. So far, only one person has been able to identify their partition size and accurately determine their STB is showing a usable partition of 353GB from a 400GB drive.

vegggas

You're obviously all over this issue; :) have there been people who have mis-identified their partition size - hooked up a larger drive and the system NOT recognize it, or not recognize all of the additional space?

Just curious - why is there a nearly 50GB loss on a 400GB drive? Overhead, or the normal discrepancy between "advertised" and "actual?"

BenDover

08-09-05, 01:50 PM

It is not so much a discrepancy between advertised and actual as it is they use different terminology/definitions; that coupled with the normal "overhead" when formatting and you lose what seems to be a large chunk of your drive(s)...it has been this way for as long as there have been hard drives :D

pepar

08-09-05, 01:57 PM

vegggas

08-09-05, 01:58 PM

It could actually be worse.
Re-edited info
So far, the yields of larger extended drives are:
160GB Drive = 152GB total space = 1GB OS partition + 1GB reserved partiton + 150GB AV partiton = 150GB usable AV space for recordings
300GB Drive = 279GB total space + 1GB OS partition + 1GB reserved partiton + 259GB usable AV space for recordings (discrepancy of 20GB)
400GB Drive = 353GB AV partition (thanks Sean) (unverified usable space[reported as 292GB free, but that could be from already saved recordings]?)

In the diagnostic pages, there are details about how much space is available on the partition, and how much is usable space (279GB formatted vs 259GB usable on 300GB drive). I'm looking for screenshots or specific data from the large drive users to determine actual space available.

Just curious - why is there a nearly 50GB loss on a 400GB drive? Overhead, or the normal discrepancy between "advertised" and "actual?"
That is not fully determined yet. I want more data from a larger group because the loss of storage may be greater than that.

vegggas

tony57

08-09-05, 02:27 PM

BenDover

08-09-05, 02:42 PM

I bet that each drive must have space reserved for the 1 hour buffer...that would account for another 9-10GB; and maybe some space reserved for encryption related "stuff" ??

vegggas

08-09-05, 03:16 PM

Its a lot easier to determine if the SA8300 recognises drives larger than 400g by noting the unused % and 'doing the math'. I've given hard data that proves that a 400g is recognised, so why is this topic continuing?
How is it easier than looking at the diagnostic page and seeing EXACTLY how much storage space there is. The percentage used is a user interface GUI that approximates usage and can vary in either direction. I know a 400GB drive is recognized, but what I'm looking for is "How much of it is recognized and usable?". So far, it looks like it drops about 50GB, but no one has listed exact numbers.
It would be nice to know if a terabyte server is connected, how much storage would there be. Would it be only 500GB; 700GB; ect? At what point does unusable space become enough of a problem that you are not willing to pay for increased storage?

vegggas

GBL

08-09-05, 04:19 PM

My 8300HD is at SARA 1.85.19.1 - that means it does not display seperate drive information. However, I did take a picture of the "DVR HDD INFORMATION " screen before the upgrade (with a 300GB Seagate):

Before adding 300GB drive:
ITFS Size: 2097152
AVFS size: 315976300
Total size: 317073452 usable out of 320173056 (size is in 512 byte sectors) = 160GB drive.

After adding 300 GB drive:
ITFS Size: 2097152 (same as before)
AVFS size: 860922500
Total size: 863019652 (an increase of 544946200 (size is in 512 byte sectors))

So, depending on what metric you use, the AVFS increase is about 272 to 279 GB.
Perhaps the newer SARA software does not compute sizes properly?

pepar

08-09-05, 04:29 PM

BenDover

08-09-05, 04:39 PM

tony57

08-09-05, 05:10 PM

It would be nice to know if a terabyte server is connected, how much storage would there be. Would it be only 500GB; 700GB; ect? At what point does unusable space become enough of a problem that you are not willing to pay for increased storage?

vegggas

How are you going to get more than 400g attached to the SA8300?
You can only add a single SATA drive to the SA8300.

Tony

GBL

08-09-05, 05:16 PM

That must be why I don't get that info either...do you simply see "unavailable" for all the items on pages 32-34 like I do?

No, I don't have pages beyond 30, just 1 to 30.

pepar

08-09-05, 11:15 PM

How are you going to get more than 400g attached to the SA8300?
You can only add a single SATA drive to the SA8300.

Tony

That's not necessarily true; "it" only has to "look" like a single volume to the software. By definition, a RAID array does that. At $3300 for a terabyte it's not practical, at least not for me, but here (http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=47&ptid=2) is a product from Silicon Image that technically could work. Note the third bulleted point at the bottom: "SATA direct host connection." The 8300HD has a builtin host adapter.

sanker

08-09-05, 11:40 PM

as requested:
serial number: 1.87.23.1

I get data on all 35 screens.

I am at 31% capacity.

screen shots attached.

<quote>400GB Drive = 353GB AV partition (thanks Sean) (unverified usable space[reported as 292GB free, but that could be from already saved recordings]?)</quote>

looks like free space goes down on page 35, as one might expect, as %full increases

vegggas

08-10-05, 01:01 AM

Thanks for the screenshots. This cleared things up for me.
It looks like the 400GB drive (seagate?) formats as 372GB and has usable space of 353GB for recording. This follows the same pattern as the 300MB drive, where 19GB is "Lost" between total and usable space.

vegggas

DMILANI

08-10-05, 08:01 AM

The Silicon Image array has been demonstrated to work with the 8300HD. Apparently, they put a demo together with SA. See here:

http://www.dvrinfospot.com/archives/2005/01/silicon_images_1.html

That's not necessarily true; "it" only has to "look" like a single volume to the software. By definition, a RAID array does that. At $3300 for a terabyte it's not practical, at least not for me, but here (http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=47&ptid=2) is a product from Silicon Image that technically could work. Note the third bulleted point at the bottom: "SATA direct host connection." The 8300HD has a builtin host adapter.

BenDover

08-10-05, 08:36 AM

pepar

08-10-05, 09:40 AM

Great, now how can I build my own box and add capacity as I see fit... Are the components separately available to consumers? Does someone sell the empty enclosure requiring only the addition of the drives? Or, can we possibly use a PC with some add in card that would have the PC house the drive array either internally or even externally?

Someone should be able to do something in linux or even windows given the approriate hardware and drivers...I would hope!

Even though my Passport-equipped 8300HD does not have its SATA connection active yet, I am pursuing this very issue. It looks like it may be a headless Linux box, but I haven't heard back from my team yet. The parts can't be that hard to find/duplicate, but the "know-how" may be elusive as I doubt if anyone at SI will spill the beans. If anybody beats me to it, please post!

OOOOOh, terabytes of storage. That should drive vegggas crazy for a while! :D

Edited: From the news release: "Silicon Image's first system-on-a-chip (SOC) implementation of the SteelVine architecture applies the performance and data reliability benefits of Redundant Array of Independent Disks (RAID) to home storage in a simple, easy-to-use manner. SteelVine requires no special drivers or loading and configuring of software. The interface to a DVR or other source device looks like a single SATA disk drive, even though the power, intelligence and capacity of a full RAID disk array sits behind this powerful chip."

This may make it impossible for us mere mortals to duplicate this box as a DIY project; the "secret" is SI's chip . . .

BenDover

08-10-05, 10:18 AM

Hmm, maybe LaCie (http://www.us.design-reuse.com/news/news11040.html) will come to the rescue with something.

vegggas

08-10-05, 10:48 AM

OOOOOh, terabytes of storage. That should drive vegggas crazy for a while! Actually that's what I want to eventually see. So far, only the Maxtor Quickview Expander has been approved and tested by most of the CableCo's. Seagate's expansion drive and one other product has been approved by SA, but they all are limited to 300GB maximum size. I was trying to determine if there was a limit imposed by SA in the firmware, or "other" factors involved. Is this the first and only true nearly unlimited storage DVR available? Will movie companies forcibly try to limit the storage time for viewing (they already do in my line of work [PPV])? Will there be effective storage limits imposed in the near future?
I'm not just trying to be a PITA, but trying to get data to see where this technology is currently being limited, and what the future may hold.

Remember, this is only an interim step for SA. The Multiroom DVR's are already being field tested by consumers for national deployment soon, and the media center DVR's with DVD burners are almost here too, etc. There are a lot of advancments just over the horizon...

vegggas