Gave my Seagate 500gb esata a rest by disconnecting from my SA8300HD Passport. ( I was having what could be HD failure problems).Were your problems the loss of FF / REW capability when you tried to pause live TV, by any chance? Scan this thread and you'll quickly learn that is expected behavior with external drives on Passport.

After a week the titles( only the titles because the shows were on the Seagate) of the shows that were on the disconnected HD started to delete from the 8300 and now they are all gone. here's the problem; when i connect the external the titles of the shows do not appear... so if I want to watch the shows from the Ext. or even delete them.. how do I do it?? I am confused.Were these shows set to only be kept for a certain length of time, then be automatically deleted? Was your box set to delete old shows as required to make room for new shows?

If your box tried to delete the shows while the external drive was disconnected, I'm not sure what state the system is in. I don't know if it will be smart enough to recover the space occupied by those shows the next time the external drive is plugged in.

You may be in uncharted territory here, and have to do some "playing around" to figure out your situation. Worst-case, you may need to reformat the external drive to recover the "lost" space and get back into a stable configuration.

I'm not sure how to force Passport to reformat a drive, if you ultimately decide you need to do that. You could always plug it into a PC and format it, then plug it back into your 8300HD. When Passport sees a drive but can't recognize the format, it should go through the reformat process.

Good luck,
Jim

I have recently made the switch to HD with my new TV and I hate the fact that there's barely any room on the DVR for recordings.

I just saw this great deal on Buy.com for a 500 GB External SATA drive with the SATA cable.

Will this work with the SA 8300 HD?

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=203268361&adid=17070&dcaid=17070

If so, I'm ordering one today.

Thanks in advance.

Darrell

I might have to scrap my external drive for the 8300HD for now. Not having rewind/ff wasn't that big of a deal since you can just record the program you're watching, but even that isn't working out well for me. It records fine and playback starts back to where I started watching the program, but the timeline is screwed up. Like it'll show the currently timeline position but replay the program from when I started watching it, which could be 30 mins to an hour earlier. Hopefully Passport will release an update (highly doubtful) that will create the buffer on an external drive.

:(

Thanks for the suggestion.

Note that it's also possible that the reboot alone solved your problem. If you notice troublesome behavior growing over time again, you might try simply rebooting before scrubbing the hardware connections. Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4682052#post4682052), and scroll down to the various reboot methods. Many folks have solved a variety of minor (and sometimes major) ills by rebooting.

Some folks even do hard reboots weekly as a form of preventive maintenance.

jruhnke,

Thanks for the link. I reviewed it a while back but haven't refered to it in a while. Good stuff to try for next time.

I have recently made the switch to HD with my new TV and I hate the fact that there's barely any room on the DVR for recordings.

I just saw this great deal on Buy.com for a 500 GB External SATA drive with the SATA cable.

Will this work with the SA 8300 HD?

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=203268361&adid=17070&dcaid=17070

If so, I'm ordering one today.

Thanks in advance.

Darrell

The Cavalry CAXM 500GB was reported as successful on the Passport Database but no mention on the Sara database. See links:

http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/passport
http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/main

Check the first post in this thread to find out which software you are running.

BOB

Hey everyone, wassup!?!? Longime lurker, but finally registered and making my first post!

I have followed this thread with great interest since I broke down and got the 8300 last week. I've already used 59% of the WD drive up and want to expand.

The last entry on the SARA database similar to me is from skifiend, who has the same location and (I think) same SARA version as me (skifiend posted 1.88.23a100 and I see 1.88.23.100, is that the same?), so I am considering mirroring his/her equipment buy (posted below):

iO Optimum(Cablevision - Westchester County) 1.88.23.100 APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT Samsung SpinPoint T HD501LJ 500GB 16MB

He/she said it passed, but hasn't updated since then, so I don't know if it's still true. My concern is the Spinpoint isn't well known. It has mostly great reviews at newegg, but most people who mention what they use it for do so in RAID, and no one mentioned DVR). I do have an aversion to WD, too, due to drive failures.

I appreciate any thoughts!
daloosh

The last entry on the SARA database similar to me is from skifiend, who has the same location and (I think) same SARA version as me (skifiend posted 1.88.23a100 and I see 1.88.23.100, is that the same?), so I am considering mirroring his/her equipment buy (posted below):

iO Optimum(Cablevision - Westchester County) 1.88.23.100 APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT Samsung SpinPoint T HD501LJ 500GB 16MB

He/she said it passed, but hasn't updated since then, so I don't know if it's still true. My concern is the Spinpoint isn't well known. It has mostly great reviews at newegg, but most people who mention what they use it for do so in RAID, and no one mentioned DVR). I do have an aversion to WD, too, due to drive failures.
You could PM skifiend and ask.

I received my Cavalry 500GB drive last Friday and have been testing it out since. Being stupid as I am, I hot-plugged it while my cable box was running. I was surprised that a box immediately popped up recognizing it and asked if I wanted to format. After confirming this, it didn't give me any status so I checked preferences and it still showed the same amount of space. I then cold booted the cable box and when it came back up it showed the increase in available space. Judging from before and after, I would say the internal drive in the 8300 is either 80 or 100GB. I haven't checked to see if this is standard.

Anyway, after using it for several days, it has worked flawlessly. About the only problem were some momentary drop-outs that are likely attributed to Cox more than the HD. I haven't opened the box to determine what drive is inside since it's working fine for me.

I highly recommend the Cavalry to anyone looking for a cheap eSATA drive to add to the 8300.

Anyway, after using it for several days, it has worked flawlessly. About the only problem were some momentary drop-outs that are likely attributed to Cox more than the HD. I haven't opened the box to determine what drive is inside since it's working fine for me.


I think you should be able to see the drive type from the diags screens.

Can you also try a 'stress test' just to be sure all is good(if you haven't already)? Record two HD programs while playing one the the two back from the beginning. Look for glitches for ~10 minutes.

Thanks,
xnappo

You could PM skifiend and ask.

Yes, I have sent skifiend a PM, but he/she has not been on the forums in awhile.
Thanks, tho.

daloosh

I received my Cavalry 500GB drive last Friday and have been testing it out since. Being stupid as I am, I hot-plugged it while my cable box was running. I was surprised that a box immediately popped up recognizing it and asked if I wanted to format. After confirming this, it didn't give me any status so I checked preferences and it still showed the same amount of space. I then cold booted the cable box and when it came back up it showed the increase in available space. Judging from before and after, I would say the internal drive in the 8300 is either 80 or 100GB. I haven't checked to see if this is standard.

Anyway, after using it for several days, it has worked flawlessly. About the only problem were some momentary drop-outs that are likely attributed to Cox more than the HD. I haven't opened the box to determine what drive is inside since it's working fine for me.

I highly recommend the Cavalry to anyone looking for a cheap eSATA drive to add to the 8300.

Glad to hear that. I ordered mine yesterday. FYI, the people who have opened it up found a Western Digital hard drive inside. This was on the reviews on Buy.com

I'll keep you guys updated when I get mine.

I think you should be able to see the drive type from the diags screens.

Can you also try a 'stress test' just to be sure all is good(if you haven't already)? Record two HD programs while playing one the the two back from the beginning. Look for glitches for ~10 minutes.

Thanks,
xnappo

I actually haven't been in the diagnostic screen yet, so I'll definately check that out when I get home today. Judging from the screenshots on the first page, I'm using SARA. I wish I wasn't, Passport looks a lot cleaner and more modern.

I can't believe we still have to put up with the outdated and clunky UI on these boxes. When are they going to update them to HD with more than 16 colors? They used the same interface in '97-98 when I was still living at home in Minnesota. Feels like an old EGA computer program. ;) I guess I was spoiled with the Windows MCE interface I had on my old HTPC.

I'll also run that stress test when I get home. Do you mean record two HD programs at once and then watch one of them from the beginning while they are both recording? I might have done this already at some point, but I'll do it just to be sure it's working properly.

I am having trouble adding a Cavalry CAXM37500 500Mb drive to my 8300HD. The Cavalry has the Western Digital drive in it.

When I first installed it I powered down the DVR, power up the drive and connect it to DVR, power up DVR. It came up and asked to format the drive etc everything seemed fine. I DVR locked up and I power cycled the DVR. It starts a count down in hex and then boots and the passport screens come up. Once the DVR is up I get the error "the external drive is not functioning properly. Please make sure tht the power and data cables are properly connected" If I disconnect the drive at this point the DVR gives me an error to reconnect and reboot the DVR. I have tried powering off the DVR power on DVR over and over each time getting the same results (drive not functioning properly).

I attached the drive to my pc via USB and formatted it as NTFS. Then I attached it to the DVR when the DVR was on. It found the drive and formated it. Everything seemed fine but now I cant rewind or fast forward unless I am recording. I rebooted the DVR and get the same error "drive not functioning properly".

At this point I think I can use the PC to format the drive and get it connected again by formatting the drive with a pc and connecting it hot to the DVR but I lose FF and rewind plus if the DVR looses power I will lose the esata drive connection and have to do the format/attach method. Lossing all recordings, not really a good work-around.

HELP.


bpostma


Ok I understand now that trick play doesnt work and that is expected behavior. :mad: I wish I had read this thread before I ordered the drive as I dont know that loosing trick play is worth it. :mad: :(

I could not get the Calvary CAXM37500 500GB enclosure to work. HOWEVER when I removed the western digital wd500aaks caviar se16 and connected it directly to the SA 8300HD (using a pc power supply and case as the enclosure :) ), everything works fine. I either have a defective Calvary unit, or some incompatibility between my calvary and my 8300 units, or the calvary just doesnt work with the 8300.

I see the comments on buy-dot-com mention that the calvary enclosure does work with the 8300. Its in the passport database, and Dead.Horse just posted that its working. Dead.Horse, have you checked to see if it works if your DVR reboots? I could get the drive working "live" but if I rebooted my DVR I had problems outlined in my first post

thanks
bpostma

Ok I understand now that trick play doesnt work and that is expected behavior. :mad: I wish I had read this thread before I ordered the drive as I dont know that loosing trick play is worth it. :mad: :(

I could not get the Calvary CAXM37500 500GB enclosure to work. HOWEVER when I removed the western digital wd500aaks caviar se16 and connected it directly to the SA 8300HD (using a pc power supply and case as the enclosure :) ), everything works fine. I either have a defective Calvary unit, or some incompatibility between my calvary and my 8300 units, or the calvary just doesnt work with the 8300.

I see the comments on buy-dot-com mention that the calvary enclosure does work with the 8300. Its in the passport database, and Dead.Horse just posted that its working. Dead.Horse, have you checked to see if it works if your DVR reboots? I could get the drive working "live" but if I rebooted my DVR I had problems outlined in my first post

thanks
bpostma

Yeah, I cold-booted it when I first connected it and once since then. It seems to be working fine, but I'm going to test it when I get off of work. Btw, what's this "trick play" thing everyone is referring to? Is that the ability to pause, seek, and skip back recordings or live tv? I'm still able to do this with recordings made to the external drive, so maybe I'm not understanding it correctly.

I could not get the Calvary CAXM37500 500GB enclosure to work. HOWEVER when I removed the western digital wd500aaks caviar se16 and connected it directly to the SA 8300HD (using a pc power supply and case as the enclosure :) ), everything works fine. I either have a defective Calvary unit, or some incompatibility between my calvary and my 8300 units, or the calvary just doesnt work with the 8300.
SATA connections seem to be dodgy and easily the cause of a particular drive/enclosure combo not working - even if the combo has been shown to work for others. In fact, that would cause me to look closely at the connections, including the ones inside the enclosure. The slightest bit of pressure - from the cable being jammed into a small space for example - can cause an intermittancy.

Yeah, I cold-booted it when I first connected it and once since then. It seems to be working fine, but I'm going to test it when I get off of work. Btw, what's this "trick play" thing everyone is referring to? Is that the ability to pause, seek, and skip back recordings or live tv? I'm still able to do this with recordings made to the external drive, so maybe I'm not understanding it correctly.


I am starting to think the sata controller of my calvary is doa. The USB works to a PC, Sata works to 8300HD if i bypass the calvary controller. A friend of mine has the same Calvary and I hope to get it tommorow and test the sata functionality.

The trick play: The problem is with live tv not recorded shows. The 8300HD will use the drive with the largest amount of free space. If that is the internal drive the DVR works as always. But if its using the external drive (while watching live)tv, the pause, ff, rewind, skip back etc do not work. This has been my experience. I can hit record, go to list play the show and then trick play features all work, that is not a great work-around but its all I got.


bpostma

I am starting to think the sata controller of my calvary is doa. The USB works to a PC, Sata works to 8300HD if i bypass the calvary controller. A friend of mine has the same Calvary and I hope to get it tommorow and test the sata functionality.
Whoaaa, there's a "controller" in the enclosure?

I have the Cavalry 500GB enclosure (WD drive) and so far, I'm about 50/50 on the fence with it. I've tried recording two HD shows and playing it back and seemed to have no problems...but at other points it seems to skip on me. But I'm not sure if it's the cable company or the e-sata drive... I can't seem to find a consistent yes or no with it.

I think my problem is that they (cable company) also just a while back opened up the internet speed to a lot higher than they used to be (no limit on the cable modem according to the cable modem information screens)...so I'm wondering if that has also done something to the quality of the signal I'm getting... I'll have to do more tests with it.

I did have my HD loose and not connected to the drive controller when I got the drive, so I had to open up the enclosure and re-attach the drive...about my only "real" problem with it.

But so far, I think it's a big thumbs up to the drive working! :)

Whoaaa, there's a "controller" in the enclosure?

Why surprise? There is a controller in the Apricorn case too as well as most other cases people are reporting as working.

xnappo

I'll also run that stress test when I get home. Do you mean record two HD programs at once and then watch one of them from the beginning while they are both recording?

Yes.
Thanks,
xnappo

Why surprise? There is a controller in the Apricorn case too as well as most other cases people are reporting as working.
I take "sata controller" to be a host controller. There is an SATA host controller in the 8300HD and on (all new) computer motherboards. Perhaps the OP did not mean sata controller, but that's what he/she said. Enclosures do not need SATA controllers; they only need to hold, cool and power the drive. This is exactly why I recommend ZERO internal electronics to avoid mucking up the SATA signaling.

I can't believe we still have to put up with the outdated and clunky UI on these boxes. When are they going to update them to HD with more than 16 colors? They used the same interface in '97-98 when I was still living at home in Minnesota. Feels like an old EGA computer program. ;) I guess I was spoiled with the Windows MCE interface I had on my old HTPC.I know you probably don't really want an answer, but here is one anyway, when there is some competition. They use that mostly because it's cheap and it supports old legacy DCT2000s that have almost no ram and can't do any better graphics. Hopefully all that will change soon. An HD GUI capability has been added to SARA, but cableco's have been advised not to use it just yet. I don't know why, so don't bother asking.

I'm sure we'll see some enhancements once OCAP is implemented, if for no other reason than other GUIs should become available as an option and cableco's will have to compete. Also, once they convert to digital, there will be no need to support legacy equipment, though I suspect they could do better even now if they wanted to spend the money.

I personally could care less what the GUI looks like, all I want is functionality and that, to me, is a lot bigger isssue than prettier colors and different fonts. I want 14 days of data and 3 hours of timeslots displayed. I also want a better search and I'll even take a Wishlist. What I don't want though is a $600-$800 price tag with additional monthly service fees.

But, I might even take that if I knew the cableco was going to support it and it worked with all aspects of the cableco; SDV, PPV, VOD, etc. I'd buy a Tivo S3, but I'm not convinced the cableco's aren't going to (unwittingly?) sabotage that at some point, and not just with SDV. Tivo's finances (though they might have improved) and the Comcast port delays also give me pause. I'm also not sure what OCAP does to the current S3, if anything.

I read one decent post over in the Comcast/Tivo thread that outlines the S3 features without all the anti-SARA/8300 BS. It is an impressive list, though I'm not sure I'd use much of it. But a few more unbiased posts like that could really get me thinking. I'm pretty much locked in to waiting for post-OCAP to see what happens with "Generation Cox", but I could be persuaded if something doesn't develop soon after that. My main concern is the third-party aspect of Tivo where there is no direct working relationship between them and the cableco. It wouldn't take all that much for cable to render the S3 pretty useless, if they so desired.

I take "sata controller" to be a host controller. There is an SATA host controller in the 8300HD and on (all new) computer motherboards. Perhaps the OP did not mean sata controller, but that's what he/she said. Enclosures do not need SATA controllers; they only need to hold, cool and power the drive. C'mon, pepar, use context to interpret the ambiguity. The OP is not a computer designer; when he said "controller", it is most likely that he simply meant "interface" or "converter" or whatever more-precise term you prefer that means "the circuit board thingie between the drive and the enclosure's eSATA port that helps the drive talk to other gizmos".

This is exactly why I recommend ZERO internal electronics to avoid mucking up the SATA signaling.Only the simplest enclosures will be built with a pass-thru cable that extends the drive's SATA port to the eSATA port on the outside of the enclosure. The majority of enclosures these days have multiple interfaces, and thus some conversion electronics that perform the translation from the drive's connector/protocol to the various ports on the enclosure and their respective protocols.

Since eSATA is far less common than USB or 1394, there are relatively few users looking for cases with only that single interface, and thus relatively few enclosures available that have only an eSATA connection, so it's becoming harder and harder to comply with your advice.

For over a year, I have been using an ATA100 IDE drive in a $20 enclosure with an IDE-to-eSATA converter in it. I have seen absolutely zero hiccups in uncounted hours of HD recording and playback. There may be some enclosures with poor converters that cause problems, but plenty of users like me have found perfectly functioning enclosures that include conversion circuitry. YMMV.

Rather than exclusively recommend "no converter" enclosures, I would recommend new users try to stick with drive/enclosure combos that several others have reported success with.

Thanks to Xnappo's databases (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/main), more and more data are available every day to help folks choose combos that should have high likelihoods of success, even if there's conversion circuitry involved.

Jim

C'mon, pepar, use context to interpret the ambiguity. The OP is not a computer designer; when he said "controller", it is most likely that he simply meant "interface" or "converter" or whatever more-precise term you prefer that means "the circuit board thingie between the drive and the enclosure's eSATA port that helps the drive talk to other gizmos".
As all SATA drives - and all drives period - need a controller regardless of what they're attached to; I saw no ambiguity. Would he be likely to know there's a controller inside the 8300HD? Maybe not, but that's not certain one way or another. The OP used "controller" so they had to have heard it somewhere in context with a hard drive.

Only the simplest enclosures will be built with a pass-thru cable that extends the drive's SATA port to the eSATA port on the outside of the enclosure. The majority of enclosures these days have multiple interfaces, and thus some conversion electronics that perform the translation from the drive's connector/protocol to the various ports on the enclosure and their respective protocols.

Since eSATA is far less common than USB or 1394, there are relatively few users looking for cases with only that single interface, and thus relatively few enclosures available that have only an eSATA connection, so it's becoming harder and harder to comply with your advice.
Less common if one looks at all external enclosures because external storage for computers is on the upswing. If one concentrates on DVR expansion, they are readily available. I do see a valid reason to buy a dual interface enclosure if one is uncertain if their DVR can be expanded, or if one simply wants a backup purpose should they decide not to use it on their DVR. Ironically, that may very well be what dooms their efforts.

For over a year, I have been using an ATA100 IDE drive in a $20 enclosure with an IDE-to-eSATA converter in it. I have seen absolutely zero hiccups in uncounted hours of HD recording and playback. There may be some enclosures with poor converters that cause problems, but plenty of users like me have found perfectly functioning enclosures that include conversion circuitry. YMMV.
Well now, that's not a dual interface enclosure, is it?

Rather than exclusively recommend "no converter" enclosures, I would recommend new users try to stick with drive/enclosure combos that several others have reported success with.

Thanks to Xnappo's databases, more and more data are available every day to help folks choose combos that should have high likelihoods of success, even if there's conversion circuitry involved.
That's very good advice and we do need to point noobs to his database. But on the other side is that no straight through "no converter" enclosure has failed. Some "with converter" ones have. It might have been the drive, so we'd need to capture successfull retries with the same enclosure/different drive. But isn't it safe to say that 100% of all failed combos have had "converters?"

Ok, I tried a few things with my 8300 + Cavalry last night. First, I was able to find my way into the diagnostic and found out that it is indeed a WD drive, a WD5000AAKS to be exact. I paged through the rest of the diagnostic screens and didn't find much I could actually understand. :) Looks like the built-in drive is 160GB.

I then did some testing by recording two HD programs simutaneously and then watching one from the beginning. I watched for about 6 minutes or so, then flipped to the other recording channel. No hiccups at all.

I also tried trick play on a live program, which also worked without issues. I'm not sure why some people are able to do this and not others, but I'm guessing that it might have to do with different providers (I have Cox) or differences in the boxes themselves (SARA vs. Passport). I'm happy that I have the capability though.

Like PewterTA posted above, I also get hiccups occasionally in recordings that I've watched (I watch a lot more recordings than live tv), and it's difficult to determine if cox or the box are at fault.

Btw, thanks for the answer DoubleDAZ, that makes me more hopeful for an HD upgrade in the future. I also agree that features are more important than the actual look of the interface. The DVR itself could use a bit of overhauling, as I'm sure anyone else who's used another recorder can testify.

The OP used "controller" so they had to have heard it somewhere in context with a hard drive.Not necessarily--"controller" is a very common word. If one knows that a drive is a SATA drive, but the enclosure has a USB port, one might search for a word to describe the electronics one assumes must exist to convert the signals, and decide "controller" is appropriate without ever hearing it used in that context before. A policeman with a whistle might be generally described as a traffic controller; similarly, a circuit exchanging data between ports might be generally described as a data controller.

I just thought it was unwise to immediately assume the OP intended "controller" to be interpreted very narrowly as "SATA host controller" when a more general sense of the word seemed far more likely.
Well now, that's not a dual interface enclosure, is it?I don't understand this comment. I was directly responding to this line in your note: "This is exactly why I recommend ZERO internal electronics to avoid mucking up the SATA signaling." My enclosure has a small circuit board that converts between IDE and SATA, and it works just fine.
But isn't it safe to say that 100% of all failed combos have had "converters?"I'm not sure if that's accurate or not. At any rate, I wasn't arguing the accuracy of your advice; I was arguing the practicality of it. My point was that your suggestion throws plenty of babies out with the bathwater by excluding all enclosures with internal electronics. Not only does it unduly constrain a shopper's choices, it completely ignores the fact that many people use enclosures with internal electronics and have no problems at all.

I recommended an alternate approach: Instead of avoiding all enclosures with electronics inside them, folks should try to look for a drive/enclosure combo that meets their needs and has been demonstrated to work for multiple people.

It should generally be easier for folks to follow that suggestion now that there are databases (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/main) capturing such info explicitly, and they're getting populated with more data as time goes by. It's also a more positive approach: "demonstrated to work" vs. "not demonstrated to fail".

Not necessarily--"controller" is a very common word. If one knows that a drive is a SATA drive, but the enclosure has a USB port, one might search for a word to describe the electronics one assumes must exist to convert the signals, and decide "controller" is appropriate without ever hearing it used in that context before. A policeman with a whistle might be generally described as a traffic controller; similarly, a circuit exchanging data between ports might be generally described as a data controller.



I agree. I work on microcontrollers for a living - calling the chip in there that handles SATA to USB/eSATA a controller is actually perfectly acceptable terminology.

Actually I don't think having a SATA->eSATA conversion step is necessarily bad. If you read the 'external SATA' section of the Wikipedia SATA entry you will see that in fact the transmit and receive characteristics of eSATA are more tolerant than SATA. The chip may actually help by acting as an amplifier/receiver.

My first case that I had problems with tapped off the SATA bus to translate to USB, but then passed the SATA through to the connector. To me - this is a bad configuration since SATA is a high speed differential interface, the signal integrity is degraded by tapping off the connection. The Apricorn case (I think) actually uses the 'chip thingy :P' to go from SATA to the eSATA connection.

We can BS like this all we want... The database is the best place to get answers though.

As to whether 100% of the failures had converters - well most failures are due to Seagate 7200.9/10 drives. If you look at the few cases that appear to be case issues - yes they have chips in them. However the vast majority of the successful cases *also* have chips in them.

xnappo

I also tried trick play on a live program, which also worked without issues. I'm not sure why some people are able to do this and not others, but I'm guessing that it might have to do with different providers (I have Cox) or differences in the boxes themselves (SARA vs. Passport). I'm happy that I have the capability though.


As you guessed, this is a Passport only issue.

xnappo

and it's difficult to determine if cox or the box are at fault.You will find that very few, if any, recording problems are because of Cox. They simply pass what they get and at times that can be very iffy, especially with ABC-15, who continues to struggle somewhat. Fox-10 also can be a bit touchy because they do so much at the network level unlike the other local stations. To see what I mean about ABC-15, pay careful attention to the switches to/from commercials and compare their switches to other stations. Wheel of Fortune also tends to have problems more frequently and those are definitely the station, not Cox or the network.

Also, check my profile for a link to our local forums. There isn't much posting currently, but problems, solutions, and loca input by station reps generally are posted there first, especially stuff from the station reps.

I agree. I work on microcontrollers for a living - calling the chip in there that handles SATA to USB/eSATA a controller is actually perfectly acceptable terminology.
I stand corrected then.
Actually I don't think having a SATA->eSATA conversion step is necessarily bad. If you read the 'external SATA' section of the Wikipedia SATA entry you will see that in fact the transmit and receive characteristics of eSATA are more tolerant than SATA. The chip may actually help by acting as an amplifier/receiver.
No electronics are necessary for SATA>eSATA; it is just different hardware. Contextually, I'd surmise you meant EIDE>SATA - a la jrunhke's enclosure?

My first case that I had problems with tapped off the SATA bus to translate to USB, but then passed the SATA through to the connector. To me - this is a bad configuration since SATA is a high speed differential interface, the signal integrity is degraded by tapping off the connection. The Apricorn case (I think) actually uses the 'chip thingy :P' to go from SATA to the eSATA connection.

We can BS like this all we want... The database is the best place to get answers though.

As to whether 100% of the failures had converters - well most failures are due to Seagate 7200.9/10 drives. If you look at the few cases that appear to be case issues - yes they have chips in them. However the vast majority of the successful cases *also* have chips in them.
I don't think we're at odds here, just emphasis. I stress that, to avoid possible problems, internal circuitry is to be avoided. You favor leading with internal circuitry is not inherently bad.

I recommended an alternate approach: Instead of avoiding all enclosures with electronics inside them, folks should try to look for a drive/enclosure combo that meets their needs and has been demonstrated to work for multiple people.

It should generally be easier for folks to follow that suggestion now that there are databases (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/main) capturing such info explicitly, and they're getting populated with more data as time goes by. It's also a more positive approach: "demonstrated to work" vs. "not demonstrated to fail".
I agree. And I'll again thank xnappo for his efforts. In my goal of K.I.S.S (in re internal circuitry) I do not want to be dismissive of his database.

Actually I don't think having a SATA->eSATA conversion step is necessarily bad. If you read the 'external SATA' section of the Wikipedia SATA entry you will see that in fact the transmit and receive characteristics of eSATA are more tolerant than SATA. The chip may actually help by acting as an amplifier/receiver.No electronics are necessary for SATA>eSATA; it is just different hardware. Contextually, I'd surmise you meant EIDE>SATA - a la jrunhke's enclosure?No, he meant SATA>eSATA. If you read the Wikipedia entry he referred to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#External_SATA), you can see the more tolerant signal specs he's talking about (emphasis below is mine):
Standardized in mid-2004, eSATA defined separate cables, connectors, and revised electrical requirements for external applications:

* Minimum transmit potential increased: Range is 500–600 mV instead of 400–600 mV.
* Minimum receive potential decreased: Range is 240–600 mV instead of 325–600 mV.
* Identical protocol and logical signaling (link/transport-layer and above), allowing native SATA devices to be deployed in external enclosures with minimal modification
* Maximum cable length of 2 m [vs. 1m--jruhnke] (USB and FireWire allow longer distances.)Note that it would thus be a violation of eSATA specs to build an enclosure that simply had a pass-through cable running from the SATA port on a drive to an eSATA port on the enclosure. Such a configuration would not compensate for the larger voltage ranges allowed by the eSATA spec--the 8300HD could "legally" send signals that arrived at the drive at 240mV, but the drive may "legally" require received signals to be above 325mV.

No, he meant SATA>eSATA. If you read the Wikipedia entry he referred to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#External_SATA), you can see the more tolerant signal specs he's talking about . .

Note that it would thus be a violation of eSATA specs to build an enclosure that simply had a pass-through cable running from the SATA port on a drive to an eSATA port on the enclosure. Such a configuration would not compensate for the larger voltage ranges allowed by the eSATA spec--the 8300HD could "legally" send signals that arrived at the drive at 240mV, but the drive may "legally" require received signals to be above 325mV.
Before eSATA-equipped enclosures came to market many of us used a simple L-type to eSATA cable to attach our external enclosures to our 8300HD's. No circuitry there and they worked fine. Even now all of my enclosures have a (L-type-to-L-type) pass-through cable running from the SATA port on a drive to an eSATA port on the enclosure. No problems there either.

To quote the Wiki section you cited: "With passive-adapters, the maximum cable length is reduced to 1 meter, due to the absence of compliant eSATA signal levels." The internal jumper cable is mere inches. I guess some peoples' equipment arrangements could require an external cable in excess of 1m, but all that I've seen are well within 1m. Practically speaking, for DVR applications, it is moot.

Like PewterTA posted above, I also get hiccups occasionally in recordings that I've watched (I watch a lot more recordings than live tv), and it's difficult to determine if cox or the box are at fault.



Thanks for the info. Database entry soon I hope?

As to your glitches, the most important number to look at is on page 5 of the diagnostics - S/N or signal to noise. If this number is 33 or less it could cause glitching.

xnappo

Thanks for the info. Database entry soon I hope?

As to your glitches, the most important number to look at is on page 5 of the diagnostics - S/N or signal to noise. If this number is 33 or less it could cause glitching.

xnappo

That's funny, that was the one section I took pause on, knowing it had something to do with the signal strength, but I can't remember what the number was. I am fairly sure it was 30-something. I'll have to check it out tonight, thanks!

I'll also find out my software version so I can add an entry to the database.

...As to your glitches, the most important number to look at is on page 5 of the diagnostics - S/N or signal to noise. If this number is 33 or less it could cause glitching.

xnappo

Thanks for the useful info. Presumably, you're referring to the SARA Diagnostics.

I think I see comparable info in the Passport Diag, in the SYSTEM SUMMARY screen, with QAM SNR numbers for each of the tuners. Mine are both showing 35-36, and I haven't noticed any glitching, so I guess I'm doing OK.

I just installed my replacement Apricorn 500GB Xpander drive yesterday. I just want to let it run for a few days without any heavy stressing efforts just to be sure it's stable under normal operation. So far, so good. I'll add an entry to your database once I'm confident of success or failure (hope not).

I am starting to think the sata controller of my calvary is doa. The USB works to a PC, Sata works to 8300HD if i bypass the calvary controller. A friend of mine has the same Calvary and I hope to get it tommorow and test the sata functionality.

The trick play: The problem is with live tv not recorded shows. The 8300HD will use the drive with the largest amount of free space. If that is the internal drive the DVR works as always. But if its using the external drive (while watching live)tv, the pause, ff, rewind, skip back etc do not work. This has been my experience. I can hit record, go to list play the show and then trick play features all work, that is not a great work-around but its all I got.


bpostma

DOH. My friends Calvary does the same thing as mine does. (It the same Calvary unit, we bought them the same day from buy-dot-com). I have a different friend that received a "new" SA HD DVR yesterday. I will ask him to test the drive.

What are my options here? Looking at the Calvary unit I dont think I can modify it to use its existing power connector and bypass the sata connection. I could buy a enclosure that is listed on the passport database. How can I be sure the other enclosures will work for me given I dont know the root cause of my issue :mad:


bpostma

DOH. My friends Calvary does the same thing as mine does. (It the same Calvary unit, we bought them the same day from buy-dot-com). I have a different friend that received a "new" SA HD DVR yesterday. I will ask him to test the drive.

What are my options here? Looking at the Calvary unit I dont think I can modify it to use its existing power connector and bypass the sata connection. I could buy a enclosure that is listed on the passport database. How can I be sure the other enclosures will work for me given I dont know the root cause of my issue :mad:


bpostma

Assuming it doesn't work for your friend's 'new' box either, I would get an Apricorn case and give it a shot. The WD drive that seems to be in the Calvary cases has been successful in quite a few entries.

When all is said and done, please put your passing and failing cases into the database.


xnappo

I added my information to the database after finding the software version. I did check the S/N and it was around 36-38, so I should be good on that front.

Are upgrades to the software per the cable companies discretion?

Are upgrades to the software per the cable companies discretion?Yes - they need to make sure that the software is compatible with the rest of their system.

Yes - they need to make sure that the software is compatible with the rest of their system.And I don't expect any further upgrades until OCAP is implemented, do you?

Has anybody tried the Western Digital 500GB "My Book Premium ES Edition" (model WDG1SU50000N) yet? I just got a buy ad, and that was the first I'd heard of this drive.



Sorry it took a few days to reply.

I've tried that model, and a few others also. As far as I have found, in this forum and elsewhere on the net, no one has gotten this drive to work.

No matter how (or how many times) I reboot, I always get "The external recording device is not functioning properly" message.

I wrote to WD support, but never heard anything back.

Right now I just leaving it connected to the 8300HD hoping for a miracle. :)

Eventually I guess I'll add it to my network storage, and try again.

Sorry it took a few days to reply.

I've tried that model, and a few others also. As far as I have found, in this forum and elsewhere on the net, no one has gotten this drive to work.

No matter how (or how many times) I reboot, I always get "The external recording device is not functioning properly" message.
You might try additional futzing with the cabling including the one inside the enclosure. SATA connections can be very dodgy.

Hi, can anyone suggest a external hard drive for my 8300HD DVR. I tried to follow this thread, but I'm not that familiar with computer based hard drives.
My 8300HD is running passport software.

thanks

Hi, can anyone suggest a external hard drive for my 8300HD DVR. I tried to follow this thread, but I'm not that familiar with computer based hard drives.
My 8300HD is running passport software.

thanks

Look here for pass: yes: http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/passport

http://discountechnology.com/8300HD-eSATA-Hard-Drive-for-Scientific-Atlanta-8300HD-DVR-250GB?sc=2&category=12

anybody think this will work with 8300HD running passport?

billy

I guess no one else has tried skifiend's combo:

iO Optimum(Cablevision - Westchester County) 1.88.23.100 APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT Samsung SpinPoint T HD501LJ 500GB 16MB

He/she said it passed, but hasn't updated since then, so I don't know if it's still true. My concern is the Spinpoint isn't well known. It has mostly great reviews at newegg, but most people who mention what they use it for do so in RAID, and no one mentioned DVR). I do have an aversion to WD, too, due to drive failures.

But I'll give it a try and report back here after it's all (hopefully) running. Still, if anyone's used the Samsung drive, I'd love to hear your experience!

daloosh


anybody think this will work with 8300HD running passport?

billy
P.S. billy, this drive you link to is the same price as the Apricorn/Spinpoint combo I'm considering at newegg, but your drive is half the storage space (250 vs 500 gb)!

http://discountechnology.com/8300HD-eSATA-Hard-Drive-for-Scientific-Atlanta-8300HD-DVR-250GB?sc=2&category=12

anybody think this will work with 8300HD running passport?
yes, probably. but there are no guarantees.

You might try additional futzing with the cabling including the one inside the enclosure. SATA connections can be very dodgy.

Thanks. Only problem is I can't figure how to get it open (My Book Premium ES). They changed the case from the other drives. It used to be a concealed screw and latches. The latches are still there, but pushing them in does not seem to release the case.

I've also seen that no one has been able to get this drive to work, so I suspect it ay be more than the connections. I've written WD again.

http://discountechnology.com/8300HD-eSATA-Hard-Drive-for-Scientific-Atlanta-8300HD-DVR-250GB?sc=2&category=12

anybody think this will work with 8300HD running passport?

billy

That seems very overpriced for a 250GB drive. I would check the Passport database and find out which drives give pass: yes. You could likely find a 500GB drive for a bit cheaper than that.

That seems very overpriced for a 250GB drive. I would check the Passport database and find out which drives give pass: yes. You could likely find a 500GB drive for a bit cheaper than that.
mmm...good thing I didn't buy it yet. The "Passport database" you spoke about, where can I check it out? Anybody think it's worth my time to call TWC for advice. The official SA8300HD website suggested contact service provider for "acceptable" SATA drives. I'm not that fluent in the computer world, so I'm looking for "pre-assembled"/ready to go/plug and play type of hard drive. If someone can give a link or two it'll be great.

thanks a bunch
billy

mmm...good thing I didn't buy it yet. The "Passport database" you spoke about, where can I check it out?Just check for the link in one of Xnappo's posts - he posts here often. Anybody think it's worth my time to call TWC for advice. The official SA8300HD website suggested contact service provider for "acceptable" SATA drives.You really ought to add your city to your profile (location) so we can easily tell where you are located. However, most all cable companies will say "we don't support the external drive" - so talking to them will do no good. I'm not that fluent in the computer world, so I'm looking for "pre-assembled"/ready to go/plug and play type of hard drive. If someone can give a link or two it'll be great.

thanks a bunch
billyThe discount technology drive that you asked about earlier will be fine.

mmm...good thing I didn't buy it yet. The "Passport database" you spoke about, where can I check it out? Anybody think it's worth my time to call TWC for advice. The official SA8300HD website suggested contact service provider for "acceptable" SATA drives. I'm not that fluent in the computer world, so I'm looking for "pre-assembled"/ready to go/plug and play type of hard drive. If someone can give a link or two it'll be great.

thanks a bunch
billy

The database link was in post #5045.

The database link was in post #5045.

For future reference, the database link is in post #1 too.

xnappo

For future reference, the database link is in post #1 too.

xnappoNot to mention your signature also. :)

Is there a way to determine which program are on which drive (internal or external)? I'm using an 8300HD / Passport.

Are there any other funky commands/menu systems not obvious or accessible through the normal interface (i.e. the remote control)?

Is there a way to determine which program are on which drive (internal or external)? I'm using an 8300HD / Passport.

Are there any other funky commands/menu systems not obvious or accessible through the normal interface (i.e. the remote control)?
Only if you look at the free space before and after you record a program. Hmmm, I guess that's pretty much a "no." :)

Just a very large THANK YOU to the folks on this thread - SUCCESS with the Cavalry CAXM37500 from Buy on Cox Cable in Santa Barbara, CA. Logged info into the SARA database. This looks to me to be the best deal out there right now: 500GB WD5000AAKS inside and on sale for 119.99 AR ($20) with free shipping (+tax in CA), plus they have a 10% off code now, various deals for new customers, new Google checkout, etc. (see the deals forums AT, SD, etc.)

SARA 1.89.18.1
Process: hot plugged, SA8300HD recognized and asked to format, utilization from 68% to 15% after reboot (the "three finger reboot")

THANKS AGAIN!

hello everyone, this is my first post on avs in years.
I recently bought a "Beyond Micro" 320gb esata external drive from newegg with rebate and hooked it up to my Passport 8300HD and all is working except the trick play, rewind in live mode etc... I guess I can live with this until a firmware update but I was wondering, has nayone with this issue tried running a 250gb external instead?
Cause I read somewhere that that is th ehighest SA was testing with at the moment.
Perhaps trick play would work with under 300gb esata drives?

And my next idea, is opening the 8300DVR up and replacing the 160gb drive with the 320gb one in my external box. Perhaps after its formatted and software loads on it, It will work with trick play and have double it's capacity! Then I can live without the external until they fix it and plug the 160gb in again.
it's an idea...If I try it, I'll let you guys know my findings.

thanks in advance, AnthonyNYC TWC NYC passport version

Asked and answered MANY times. Trick play does not work while recording to the external drive. Once the internal drive has more available space, trick play will work again. The real "trick" is to record whatever you want to watch and then you can FF, Rew, etc.

FWIW, a search for "trick play", with the quotes, would have turned up the answer in the first post found. :)

Also, at least one person opened his 8300 up and replaced the internal drive. Not sure what will happen, if anything, once he puts it back and returns it to the cableco though. You do know it's their's and opening it up is a no-no.\?

My first Apricorn 500GB DVR Xpander drive failed after a power outage, and since then I received and installed the replacement five days ago. So far, all is well, with no operational problems or abnormal behavior during a cold boot on the DVR. I'm running the new unit, and the DVR, on a small UPS system to try to avoid future disturbances and service interruptions.

The fan on this one is a bit noisier than the first one was, though. I only really notice it when everthing else is shut down, so it isn't really that big a problem. I may end up putting it inside the cabinet, as long as I can avoid excess heat.

Now I can turn my attention to worrying about Navigator, and what it may do to us.

Asked and answered MANY times. Trick play does not work while recording to the external drive. Once the internal drive has more available space, trick play will work again. The real "trick" is to record whatever you want to watch and then you can FF, Rew, etc.

FWIW, a search for "trick play", with the quotes, would have turned up the answer in the first post found. :)

Also, at least one person opened his 8300 up and replaced the internal drive. Not sure what will happen, if anything, once he puts it back and returns it to the cableco though. You do know it's their's and opening it up is a no-no.\?

Hi Double Daz,
I read through hours of posts trying to find my answer, if someone actually tried a 250gb drive instead of all the 320-500gb everyone is talking about and didn't see a mention of it. But I appreciate you taking the time to reply anyway.

About opening the box being a no..no, I know. I wonder however what the penalty (if any) would be, since i plan to keep it until something goes wrong, if it's the drive I put in then i would replace with original drive before returning it to them. I returned the SA 8000DVR when I got HD tv and it they never bothered looking at it, if it was open or not, just took it back and handed me another, so I doubt they would even notice me having opened it if I return it for exchange.

About surge protection, yes, that is important, I have UPS on my computer and don't see the need for one on DVR, but I did splurge a good $40 on a decent surge protecter and it has cable filtering and ground, that eliminated my cable ground loop issue that I was having also.

I might try the opening up and swapping hard drive after I delete all my shows, I would lose them all I assume by doing that, so need to watch them all first. It's hard to do!! :)

Thanks all,
AnthonyNYC
:)

About opening the box being a no..no, I know. I wonder however what the penalty (if any) would be, since i plan to keep it until something goes wrong, if it's the drive I put in then i would replace with original drive before returning it to them. I returned the SA 8000DVR when I got HD tv and it they never bothered looking at it, if it was open or not, just took it back and handed me another, so I doubt they would even notice me having opened it if I return it for exchange.

I might try the opening up and swapping hard drive after I delete all my shows, I would lose them all I assume by doing that, so need to watch them all first. It's hard to do!! :)
If you open your box and swap internal drives, you should be prepared to:

1. Lose all of your recorded content and

2. have your "transplant" fail and

3. pay your cable provider what will seem like an OUTRAGEOUS sum for your self-damaged box and - maybe

4. be charged criminally for destruction of property.

Any questions? :rolleyes:

Hi Double Daz,
....About surge protection, yes, that is important, I have UPS on my computer and don't see the need for one on DVR, but I did splurge a good $40 on a decent surge protecter and it has cable filtering and ground, that eliminated my cable ground loop issue that I was having also.
AnthonyNYC
:)

I know that the choice to use a UPS is entirely up to the indiividual, but I put a UPS on my DVR & External Drive primarily because I suspect that the damage that occured with my first drive, which was fully protected for surges, during a power loss, may have been the result of power loss interruption of a critical operation between the DVR and drive that resulted in the subsequent inability to use the drive with the DVR.

I can't prove that, of course, since I don't have the resources to isolate the root cause, and the drive went back to Apricorn anyway. When you think about it, the DVR and External Drive are performing as a computer, and is vulnerable to sudden power losses, especially when you are writing to, and reading from an external mass storage device.

VicW

wow, that is scarey reply. LOL

Years ago I had a Dish network DVR, I opened the box, swapped in a bigger hard drive, had it format with no problem, and enjoyed larger storage for many many years after that with no problem, until I had to move and get cable, so i replaced the smaller drive and all was normal again on sat box. No fraud or criminal actions were intended simply just wanted enough storage to equal what I was getting before with non HD DVR (about 40 hours), 20 seems way to little now, and shows are always erasing.
I added external sata but miss my trick play, I miss being about to rewind cnn and read the scrolling news ticker from begining.

So I thought upgrading cable box would be as simple as Sat. Box was, but you scared the CR*P out of me dude, so I won't! Yikes!!!!
I don't want to go to jail!!

Thanks,
AnthonyNYC :eek:

Hi Double Daz,
I read through hours of posts trying to find my answer, if someone actually tried a 250gb drive instead of all the 320-500gb everyone is talking about and didn't see a mention of it. But I appreciate you taking the time to reply anyway.What DoubleDAZ was pointing out is that it doesn't matter what size drive you put in, the behavior is the same: When the external drive has a greater percentage of free space than the internal drive, "trick play" features do not work on Passport-based systems. This behavior is clearly documented in literally hundreds of posts throughout this thread.

There's nothing magical about a 250GB drive or any other size that will change that behavior.

I know that the choice to use a UPS is entirely up to the indiividual, but I put a UPS on my DVR & External Drive primarily because I suspect that the damage that occured with my first drive, which was fully protected for surges, during a power loss, may have been the result of power loss interruption of a critical operation between the DVR and drive that resulted in the subsequent inability to use the drive with the DVR.

I can't prove that, of course, since I don't have the resources to isolate the root cause, and the drive went back to Apricorn anyway. When you think about it, the DVR and External Drive are performing as a computer, and is vulnerable to sudden power losses, especially when you are writing to, and reading from an external mass storage device.

VicW

Yes, i agree, and it wouldn't need to be as powerful a UPS as is needed by PC anyway, just enough for DVR and external drive to run afor say 30 minutes or an hour till power comes back on or you can properly stop recording and shut down,

Can I ask what model you bought? If it's cheap enough maybe I will do the same.
Thanks Anthony
:)

What DoubleDAZ was pointing out is that it doesn't matter what size drive you put in, the behavior is the same: When the external drive has a greater percentage of free space than the internal drive, "trick play" features do not work on Passport-based systems. This behavior is clearly documented in literally hundreds of posts throughout this thread.

There's nothing magical about a 250GB drive or any other size that will change that behavior.

I seem to understand that now, sorry to everyone if it was a redundant question.
Thanks DoubleDaZ and jruhnke for clearing that up for me.

So basically then, if I start deleting all the shows that where recorded on my internal drive prior to adding external, eventually i will free up enough space to get my trick play features back? That will be nice.
Also i read in SA manual, the DVR will record into whichever of the two drives has more free space, correct?

So then, i should get a huge external drive, say 500gb or 750gb that way it will only ever record on external drive keeping the external drive always empty and free for the buffer and trick play.

Any reason this shouldn't work? Before I try ordering a 500gb drive, Thanks in advance.

If you open your box and swap internal drives, you should be prepared to:

1. Lose all of your recorded content and

2. have your "transplant" fail and

3. pay your cable provider what will seem like an OUTRAGEOUS sum for your self-damaged box and - maybe

4. be charged criminally for destruction of property.

Any questions? :rolleyes:

In retrospect the Dishplayer DVR I had updated belonged to me, I think, so it's not the same, you are correct if anything went wrong with their box because i what i did while i opened it, I would be liable for repair cost, true, and rightfully so.

I like your web page! Excellent work builing your media roon, nice.

I also see you used a 250 gb drive and have passport also, did you notice the lack of trick play immediately? Or was your main drive empty enough that the external was used more and never ran into that problem?

I am wondering how much of the internal drive needs to be empty for my trick play to return?
I see the screens you got on your web page, I will check my explorers info page now to see the diference.
Thanks,
Anthony

PS I know I need to update my profile, last time I was on AVS was when I had 2 Replay TV's hooked up to cable, before I sold them for the TWC DVR rental.

Originally Posted by jruhnke
What DoubleDAZ was pointing out is that it doesn't matter what size drive you put in, the behavior is the same: When the external drive has a greater percentage of free space than the internal drive, "trick play" features do not work on Passport-based systems. This behavior is clearly documented in literally hundreds of posts throughout this thread.

There's nothing magical about a 250GB drive or any other size that will change that behavior.I seem to understand that now, sorry to everyone if it was a redundant question.
Thanks DoubleDaZ and jruhnke for clearing that up for me.

So basically then, if I start deleting all the shows that where recorded on my internal drive prior to adding external, eventually i will free up enough space to get my trick play features back? That will be nice.
Also i read in SA manual, the DVR will record into whichever of the two drives has more free space, correct?

So then, i should get a huge external drive, say 500gb or 750gb that way it will only ever record on external drive keeping the external drive always empty and free for the buffer and trick play.

Any reason this shouldn't work? Before I try ordering a 500gb drive, Thanks in advance.No, your scheme won't work. This, too, is explained in those hundreds of posts.

The DVR will always record into whichever of the drives has more free space, percentage-wise. So if you have 225GB free on your 500GB external drive (45% free), and 88GB free on your 160GB internal drive (55% free), the DVR will record into the internal drive.

On Passport systems, the only time trick-play will work is when the DVR is recording into the internal drive.

Typically, when someone adds a new external drive to a Passport system, trick-play stops working for a while, until the external drive fills up to the point that the internal drive has more free space (percentage-wise). Then, trick-play will work for a while until the internal drive fills up some more and the external drive has more free space, at which point trick-play stops working again. Once the percentage of free space has equalized like this, trick play simply comes and goes as free space fluctuates on the two drives.

***Edit: I am not certain whether the DVR picks which drive based on percentage free space or total free space--I have seen people post both, but have not checked it myself. Either way, the gist of this note remains the same.

As DoubleDAZ pointed out in his original reply to you, the simple workaround for when your trick-play features aren't working is to simply hit the "Record" button while you're watching a show and play it back while it's recording. FF/REW always works fine during playback of recorded programs, even while the recording is still in-progress.

Anthony,

I think you might be chasing your tail trying to defeat the loss of "trick play" by monitoring the space on the internal/external drives and trying to make sure various recordings go to one drive or the other. You will spend an inordinate amount of time just trying to compute the space since Passport has no "fuel guage" and all that really defeats the purpose of having the extra storage in the first place.

I don't know if you missed it, but I'm not sure why you don't simply press Record for anything you think you might want to use "trick play" with. Even if you tune to something and watch a bit of it, you can still press Record and capture the buffer from the point you started watching. This will then give you the "trick play" features you want and would be pretty much the same as if you had "trick play" for the live program to begin with. It might take a little getting used to, but I find it hard to believe there are that many programs you watch where you need "trick play" that you couldn't remember to record them and watch the recording.

Even if you manage to fill your external drive, you are then pretty much in the same position you'd be in without the external drive, again limited to the internal capacity. Swapping the internal for a larger drive would probably be the best solution for you and I think the chances of getting dinged by the cableco are pretty remote (though I wouldn't take the chance myself). AFAIK, they will be able to tell you tinkered with it, but I've never seen a CSR look at a returned box except maybe to check the S/N, etc.

You could always do what pepar does and simply watch nothing but recordings. My primetime viewing is almost exclusively recordings during the season, but we do watch live TV during the day on weekends, etc. I do use the "trick play" features, especially on some of the HGTV/DIYNet stuff where I rewind to catch something, but I don't think I'[d mind hitting record to get those features if I needed to. Oftentimes I hit record and watch the whole program over again anyway.

In retrospect the Dishplayer DVR I had updated belonged to me, I think, so it's not the same, you are correct if anything went wrong with their box because i what i did while i opened it, I would be liable for repair cost, true, and rightfully so.

I also see you used a 250 gb drive and have passport also, did you notice the lack of trick play immediately? Or was your main drive empty enough that the external was used more and never ran into that problem?

I am wondering how much of the internal drive needs to be empty for my trick play to return?
I see the screens you got on your web page, I will check my explorers info page now to see the difference.
Thanks,
Anthony

PS I know I need to update my profile, last time I was on AVS was when I had 2 Replay TV's hooked up to cable, before I sold them for the TWC DVR rental.
Sorry for the fire and brimstone. As you've noted, the difference was that you owned the SAT DVR. Now, you might swap the internal drive, be up and running is a heartbeat and be able to - undetected - put the stock drive back in if and when you need to surrender the box. But then again, everything might go south and you'd be found out. In that case, I'd bet you could fuggetabout "repair" cost; they'd likely ding you for the MSRP of the box. Since we don't know what MSRP is . . . ;)

I have a 250GB on one of my 8300HDs and a 500GB on the other. Live TV trickplay disappeared immediately in both cases. It returns when there is more (raw, not proportionately) storage space on the internal drive than the external drive.

Anthony,

I don't know if you missed it, but I'm not sure why you don't simply press Record for anything you think you might want to use "trick play" with. Even if you tune to something and watch a bit of it, you can still press Record and capture the buffer from the point you started watching. This will then give you the "trick play" features you want and would be pretty much the same as if you had "trick play" for the live program to begin with. It might take a little getting used to, but I find it hard to believe there are that many programs you watch where you need "trick play" that you couldn't remember to record them and watch the recording.


I don't have Passport, but have always been curious, can you just hit the pause button then play to ensure future 'trick play'?

xnappo

Live TV trickplay disappeared immediately in both cases. It returns when there is more (raw, not proportionately) storage space on the internal drive than the external drive.Whoops! I had seen earlier that it was based on percentage of free space. (I edited my earlier note to acknowledge that I don't know for sure which way it works.)

No, your scheme won't work. This, too, is explained in those hundreds of posts.


As DoubleDAZ pointed out in his original reply to you, the simple workaround for when your trick-play features aren't working is to simply hit the "Record" button while you're watching a show and play it back while it's recording. FF/REW always works fine during playback of recorded programs, even while the recording is still in-progress.

Now I really feel stupid, but catching up by reading a thread a few years old is hard, so sorry! to all.

I see now, so my only 2 options basically are, keep hard drive as it is, start hitting the record button everytime I change channels so i can be prepared to rewind if I didn't hear something, or wait till I actually need to rewind, then hit record and then play from beginning or rewind after the fact, still acceptable,

or
open box, carefully replace drive with bigger one, making sure NOT to damage anything, or be prepared to pay lots to cable co, and if done correctly have a perfectly functioning box with no workarounds needed and enough space for shows again. But also be prepared to get charged criminally for tampering with private property, if cable co finds out.

correct? I think i'll go with number one, i'm sure next one or two firmware updates will adress and correct this issue with external hard drives anyway.
Thanks to this group, I now know, I've done all I can do myself, and haven't missed or done something wrong in the installation, and the bug is the cable companies issue and not something I did wrong.
That in itself is a huge relief to the do it yourselfer!!
This is why I love this forum so much, even though i tend to forget about it when not having any currrent issues or problems.

You guys are the BEST!

I don't have Passport, but have always been curious, can you just hit the pause button then play to ensure future 'trick play'?

xnappo

Hey xnappo,
No, that doesn't work, what happens when you hit pause with the external drive connected on a Passport system is, the current show pauses. That part works, but as soon as you hit play it continues and you are delayed but can't rewind or fas forward irregarldless, those 2 features don't work, so you still have to sit through commercials, because the minute you try to either rewind or f/f the unit skips to live so you miss everything that was being bufferred. At least that's how mine has been acting.

I must admit the hitting record trick sounds ok, I will start trying it and see how convenient it is. I guess I need to constantly go through list erasing shows i watched live before the unit decides to start deleting shows I actually recorded that are older on the list.

Either way, I remember the first DVR experience, and how it's spoiled us to how we now watch tv forever! :)

AnthonyNYC :)

Anthony,

You've hit on something many of us have known for some time, even those of us without a Tivo. ;) Once you get used to something, it's difficult to go back to something less functional. In that regard I almost feel lucky to have SARA since it is only one step up from the VCR whereas Passport is 2 steps up and Tivo is 3 or more. The only consolation I have is that things can only get better for me whereas folks with Passport over in Lincoln have learned just how much worse it can get with TWC's Navigator.

Hey xnappo,
No, that doesn't work, what happens when you hit pause with the external drive connected on a Passport system is, the current show pauses. That part works, but as soon as you hit play it continues and you are delayed but can't rewind or fas forward irregarldless, those 2 features don't work, so you still have to sit through commercials, because the minute you try to either rewind or f/f the unit skips to live so you miss everything that was being bufferred. At least that's how mine has been acting.

I must admit the hitting record trick sounds ok, I will start trying it and see how convenient it is. I guess I need to constantly go through list erasing shows i watched live before the unit decides to start deleting shows I actually recorded that are older on the list.

Either way, I remember the first DVR experience, and how it's spoiled us to how we now watch tv forever! :)

AnthonyNYC :)

Thanks for the info Anthony.

Can you put an entry into the database in my sig?

Thanks,
xnappo

P.S. If TWC f**ks up my eSATA with Navigator, I am opening the box and throwing in a larger drive.

Yes, i agree, and it wouldn't need to be as powerful a UPS as is needed by PC anyway, just enough for DVR and external drive to run afor say 30 minutes or an hour till power comes back on or you can properly stop recording and shut down,

Can I ask what model you bought? If it's cheap enough maybe I will do the same.
Thanks Anthony
:)

I've got kind of an unusual situation, power-wise. I retired to North Carolina a couple of years ago, and got paranoid about AC power after listening to stories from the locals about the history of unstable power in our area. I installed a full-house automatic generator, so I actually only need about 10 seconds of operaiton before the generator power cuts in, consequently I didn't agonize over the battery capacity for this project - I just got the smallest one I could find, an APC 350VA unit at Best Buy for about $41, and I have only the DVR and Expansion Drive plugged in to minimize the load on the battery. In reality, I am really more concerned about avoiding the short term, momentary interruptions that are far more numerous than the long outages anyway. It was an almost undetectable short-term outage that took out my first drive.

P.S. If TWC f**ks up my eSATA with Navigator, I am opening the box and throwing in a larger drive.

Amen to that - it's awfuly tempting anyway, despite the possible worst-case consequences. I don't plan to try it, but I wonder if anybody already has. It would really simplify things operationally with Passport. I don't recall seeing any comments in these threads that it has been tried before.

In reality, I am really more concerned about avoiding the short term, momentary interruptions that are far more numerous than the long outages anyway. It was an almost undetectable short-term outage that took out my first drive.In that case, you might actually prefer a UPS a step or two up the evolutionary chain. The more capable UPS units have built-in voltage regulators.

Simpler UPS units essentially can only handle three situations: Good voltage from the wall, no voltage/power from the wall, or a voltage surge from the wall. Smaller voltage fluctuations around "normal" that are not severe enough to look like a complete power outage or a major voltage surge are essentially ignored by the UPS.

More capable UPS units have a built-in voltage regulation mechanism that can help smooth out fluctuations around "normal". For instance, I can set my 1500VA unit from APC to kick in if the voltage goes above a certain threshold (selectable in 1V-increments between 124-136V) or below a certain threshold (selectable in 1V-increments between 94-104V).

It also has a "sensitivity" setting (high/med/low) that isn't well-explained, but I think sets how long the UPS has to see the anomalous voltage before it kicks in.

The UPS will occasionally pick up the computer load when a big household load comes online and perturbs the line voltage (like the A/C system, the vacuum cleaner, or a hair dryer).

In that case, you might actually prefer a UPS a step or two up the evolutionary chain. The more capable UPS units have built-in voltage regulators.

Simpler UPS units essentially can only handle three situations: Good voltage from the wall, no voltage/power from the wall, or a voltage surge from the wall. Smaller voltage fluctuations around "normal" that are not severe enough to look like a complete power outage or a major voltage surge are essentially ignored by the UPS.

More capable UPS units have a built-in voltage regulation mechanism that can help smooth out fluctuations around "normal". For instance, I can set my 1500VA unit from APC to kick in if the voltage goes above a certain threshold (selectable in 1V-increments between 124-136V) or below a certain threshold (selectable in 1V-increments between 94-104V).

It also has a "sensitivity" setting (high/med/low) that isn't well-explained, but I think sets how long the UPS has to see the anomalous voltage before it kicks in.

The UPS will occasionally pick up the computer load when a big household load comes online and perturbs the line voltage (like the A/C system, the vacuum cleaner, or a hair dryer).

You're right. The APC unit is pretty minimal. It has gotten me transparently through at least one minor outage, so far, though. I have a more competent, regulating Tripp-Lite unit on my PC, and I see that they make a Home Theater version that also has the regulation capabilities, and is nicely designed to fit in a component cabinet (as long as it won't generate too much heat.) It also has a digital display to show line voltage, which might be interesting. If I step up to that level, I will probably put all the major components on it, since it has much more capacity, as well.

[opening the box and throwing in a larger drive.] ... I wonder if anybody already has ... Passport ... Yes, and no. Explorer 8000 or 8300 Hard Drive upgrade (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=483092).

The upgrade seems to work fine on SARA which has an accessible method of reformatting the internal drive. 1

On PASSPORT, before I moved to a SARA town, I had not seen a successful swap nor re-format of the internal drive (that would indicate a path for success ethical or not). 2



v/r,
C-F

1 In Canada, where they may purchase the devices there is no ethical or legal barrier. Of course from the cable company's standpoint, the line might look pretty thin between that and if an [unsupported] external eSATA drive fails and shorts out the SA8300HD circuit board.


2 There was one report of partial success in finding (not decrypting) the files of an external drive. If someone with the skills and knowledge and [more time than it takes to press RECORD] followed up, it may have lead to a method to clone the disk onto a larger one - after they determine what to change to inform the OS/Application of the larger [drive size/addresses]. Of course that someone with that knowledge set could probably have made real money with the same working time.

Pepar's dire warning is correct to give out to folks who are the least bit nervous about technology.

BUT, if you have fooled around inside various electronic toys, you should know that the issue is "how can they tell?"

Most of the "tricks" mfg's use are blobs of paint or some form of extra sticky labels over one or more screws that secure the component. So the FIRST thing you do is to carefully check all connections of the HD to the rest of the box. IF something is there, the question becomes "can you replicate it if you have to bring the box back (with the original drive)?"

So all those issues to me are moot, I can deal with any of them.

HOWEVER, there IS one unknown (for Passport users). There's the matter of an operating system and the IPG application. 3 things need to happen when you put a blank drive into the box. It needs to be formatted and the OS & application need to be added. From various posts I've read about this being successfully done in SARA areas, one could assume some silicon (firmware) formats the drive and the OS & application get downloaded from the head end. The $64,000 question is does this happen in a Passport system? AND is there any quirk to different cable outfits (TWC, Comcast) or to various locations?

The answers to these kinds of questions typically come from someone taking the bull by the horns. I've sure as heel been LOOKING for some confirmation, but haven't gotten any. Part of the reason I haven't tried it is that I kind of made my peace with having restricted space available. I did this before there even was a chance at adding an external drive to Passport 8300s.

Reminds me of the early rumors that simply opening the case would flip a switch that rendered the 8300 useless. :)

HOWEVER, there IS one unknown (for Passport users). There's the matter of an operating system and the IPG application. 3 things need to happen when you put a blank drive into the box. It needs to be formatted and the OS & application need to be added. From various posts I've read about this being successfully done in SARA areas, one could assume some silicon (firmware) formats the drive and the OS & application get downloaded from the head end. The $64,000 question is does this happen in a Passport system? AND is there any quirk to different cable outfits (TWC, Comcast) or to various locations?

The answers to these kinds of questions typically come from someone taking the bull by the horns. I've sure as heel been LOOKING for some confirmation, but haven't gotten any. Part of the reason I haven't tried it is that I kind of made my peace with having restricted space available. I did this before there even was a chance at adding an external drive to Passport 8300s.

The great unknown of these issues, on top of the potential of legal and ethical issues should give any judicious user great pause. I don't see pursuing it.

I do wonder if it ever ocurred to SA or TWC that there might be a marketing opportunity in offering PLUS versions of the 8300 with a larger storage capacity. I think there might be a significant number of users who would pay a buck or two a month more for triple or better internal storage capacity. Drive sizes have increased substantially since they started marketing the 8300, and the 500 GB range drives really don't cost any more today than the 150-160 GB drives they put in originally.

Well, if you look at some of the WeaKnees prices for Tivo S3 upgrades, I don't think a buck or 2 for cableco's would cut it. Upgrading the base 32 hr S3 to 65 hrs runs $400 and to 107 hrs another $200. While $600 might seem good for more than triple capacity, I seriously doubt any cableco would agree to market multiple versions for lease. Things would be different if these were available retail, but even where they are in Canada I don't see much hacking going on nor a demand for such options. I think OCAP will eventually offer us the kinds of options we want, but who knows when that will all happen. Next year's CES might show just what we can expect if DVRs are to become just another piece of gear like the VCR and DVD player.

I just got an 8300HD on Time Warner Cable in NYC. It seems to be running Passport not SARA.

I was wondering if anyone had experience connecting an external drive to a Passport 8300HD on TWC-NYC?

Having to delete all these HD shows to make room on the stock 160GB drive is frustrating. I was looking at the Seagate 750gb FreeAgent Pro eSATA/USB2 as external storage but I'm not sure about compatibility with the 8300HD.

Just connecting to PC to download the shows would be good enough, but I understand that's not possible?

I was wondering if anyone had experience connecting an external drive to a Passport 8300HD on TWC-NYC?Check out Xnappo's "External storage on Passport" database (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/passport), and scan the left column for TWC in NYC.

Thanks. I see there are 3 entries for Passport TWC NYC, looks like eSATA is known to work for 320GB and 500GB drives.

I see there is one entry on the SARA list that shows a 750GB drive working on a COX network, but the comment doesn't sound too reassuring - "lvjoe writes: Works fine for SD channels but HD causes many glitches"

I noticed most of the listings are internal drives in 3rd party enclosures. I'm curious if Seagate's "FreeAgent Pro" external drives are known to work. I only see one listing for a FreeAgent Pro drive, its on the SARA list and it was non-working.

Awesome ;)

Reminds me of the early rumors that simply opening the case would flip a switch that rendered the 8300 useless. :)

LOL, As a kid, I was very experimentive, i had to open everything electronic up just to see what it looked liked inside. Of course this was way before the internet, kids today could just do a google and someone else has already opened and photographed everything already.

Anyway, one day I remember opening up my families cable box, it had torx screws or something (made it more appealing) and as soon as I lifted the top off, I heard a click. And sure enough, there was switch held down by the box lid.
Nothing I did after that point could get the box to work again, it had an error code.

I learned a valuable lesson, never open a cable box again! LOL
They came and replaced it, we never got questioned, I guess it happened a lot.
But from reading other posts SA didn't booby trap these units except the sensitive tape on drive itself.

AnthonyNYC

I need to expand the memory of the 8300HD and my pc. Is it possible to partition a external drive to work on both the 8300 and a computer? Or am I stuck with buying 2 drives. It would be nice to have it used as a external pc drive normally, then when I know I'm going to need it for the dvr, use it for that. Thanks!

I need to expand the memory of the 8300HD and my pc. Is it possible to partition a external drive to work on both the 8300 and a computer? Or am I stuck with buying 2 drives. It would be nice to have it used as a external pc drive normally, then when I know I'm going to need it for the dvr, use it for that. Thanks!You cannot use a single drive to store 8300HD and PC data simultaneously. Neither device will recognize / respect the other's partition and filesystem information.

Yea, that's what I figured. Thanks for the response. :)

Memory and disk space are NOT the same thing. Given some of the supposition about exactly what goes on in these boxes, more memory (RAM) sure seems like it might be of great benefit.

Indeed it is interesting if the cable guys offered additional storage for additional money. I suspect this will never happen because the content guys who license their stuff TO the cable co. would for sure fight them... as the owners of the content, they CAN make it impossible for them to offer such choices.

Boy, a permanent kill switch... first time I've heard of anyone actually seeing such an item. But it's like DRM, once it is KNOWN, it is defeated. Frankly, having contact with the underground, I've many times seen far more extra effort put towards kracking content protection schemes that are "sold" as unbreakable. I remember a small shareware app that the dev touted as being so secure, it couldn't be broken. He frakking bragged that because he used to krack, he knew how to create an unbreakable system. That claim got a krack far more widely disseminated than if he just kept his mouth shut and did NOT try and get nasty (it is a truism that the more stringent the DRM, the more legit users have troubles and issues).

BTW, it's torx screws, "torch" did make me smile!

Greetings everyone. I've got a SA8300 that I use for HD from TWC here in Austin. After stumbling onto this thread and forum, I used the information to pick out an external drive for my 8300.

First tried the Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750Gb that was on sale at Fry's. It connected and was recognized by the 8300, but had an error message indicating that it was unavailable and to check the power and data cables. Was never offered the option of formatting the drive. Tried rebooting numerous times to no avail.

As part of the troubleshooting process I picked up a Seagate 500Gb eSata external drive. It was recognized as soon as I connected it and I was prompted to format it. I rebooted the box one more time and stopped there, as my drive usage with it dropped from 82% to 18%. I might return the other drive, or keep it for other uses, haven't made up my mind yet. I appreciate the advice in this thread, it made an undocumented process as painless a possible.

Not sure if it was the capacity or the external box on the FreeAgent that caused the problem, and I'm not inclined to take it apart to troubleshoot further as I have something that works.

Tex

I took the FreeAgent 750GB box apart and connected the drive with a sata to esata cable and it worked.

Something about the case which interferes with esata.

I took the FreeAgent 750GB box apart and connected the drive with a sata to esata cable and it worked.

Something about the case which interferes with esata.
Dodgy connections inside or, if it has interface other than eSATA, the circuitry for same.

Dodgy connections inside or, if it has interface other than eSATA, the circuitry for same.

It's supposed to be esata, but apparently they're doing something funky.

It's supposed to be esata, but apparently they're doing something funky.

If you have it open, I'd be interested in the photos of the little board in there...

xnappo

It's supposed to be esata,
Only eSATA?

I have recently made the switch to HD with my new TV and I hate the fact that there's barely any room on the DVR for recordings.

I just saw this great deal on Buy.com for a 500 GB External SATA drive with the SATA cable.

Will this work with the SA 8300 HD?

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=203268361&adid=17070&dcaid=17070

If so, I'm ordering one today.

Thanks in advance.

Darrell

Well, I finally got my drive today. Took it out of the box, and followed the instructions on my 8300 HD.

Unplugged the power from the 8300 HD
Hooked up the SATA cable to the 8300 HD
Hooked up the SATA cable to the drive
Plugged in the AC power to the drive
Plugged in the power to the 8300 HD
Rebooted the 8300
Message asked "Do you wish to format this drive?" Hit "A" for yes.

Then, nothing happened. I waited 20 minutes and checked my recording space. It was still at 65% with 12 recordings.

Then I tried the process all over again. This time, when the box rebooted, it said, "This drive is ready to use with your DVR." Then when I went to my recording space, it was at 10% with 12 recordings.

I guess you have to reboot the box again after it formats it.

I'll test some recordings and report my findings soon. So far, so good.

Only eSATA?

The FreeAgent is eSata and USB external drive. Seems the USB circuitry interferes with the eSata interface.

I suppose a clean connection from drive to esata connector is best, perhaps the electronics inside the case is to allow piggy back features? for more than one sata drive. Or optional connection to usb ?
I got the Beyond Micro external case with 320gb drive and it works well, an was under $90 with a $30 rebate, so there are cheap external ready built options around.

Now I wonder, if I do open the beyond micro case to remove the hard drive and open 8300 to replace the 160gb with a 320gb, I void the Beyond Micro warranty and chance problems with cable co. also, it might be worth it to solve the trick play issue and double my storage capacity if I only knew if it would work and load Passport OS on the drive.

I think the drive would already be formatted since it was used as an external and it did format it, but did it add the 2 extra partitions to it also, that the internal drive needs to load OS software on?
That is the mystery, it's tempting to try it and just see.
Also I guess doing a ghost disk to disk image might work also on the pc with the original DVR drive and the one needed for replacement. But it might not since a byte for byte copy wouldn't allocate the extra space for use, right?

Any thoughts on which technique would have a higher chance of sucess?

I can't believe I typed torch instead of torx earlier, thanks for correction, glad to cause a smile! :)
AnthonyNYC

The FreeAgent is eSata and USB external drive. Seems the USB circuitry interferes with the eSata interface.
For lack of a better explanation (read: real science!), that's been my thinking. As shown on xnappo's database, some dual(/triple?) interface external enclosures do work, further speculation is that some manufacturer's get it right and others don't.

The 'base is your friend. :)

I am not an expert on USB and eSATA/SATA but I do recognize that there are some basic differences here with USB having a significant communications overhead that SATA is not burdened with. I have always suspected that many USB interfaces to a SATA drive may interrupt the data flow from the drive in order to "do it's communication thing". Some interfaces may do this, even if no USB connection is made (because they should periodically check to see if something is there).

This is conjecture, so I wish someone with a greater detailed knowledge of the USB protocol would comment. But,without more authorative knowledge I suspect that ANY enclosure with a USB interface runs the danger of screwing up the data flow through SATA/eSATA connections to the 8300. The bottom line would be: if you buy an enclosure with such an interface, then you should find a cable to do a direct connect from the drive to the 8300 and bypass the enclosure's interface altogether (if you possibly can).

Am I right?

I am not an expert on USB and eSATA/SATA but I do recognize that there are some basic differences here with USB having a significant communications overhead that SATA is not burdened with. I have always suspected that many USB interfaces to a SATA drive may interrupt the data flow from the drive in order to "do it's communication thing". Some interfaces may do this, even if no USB connection is made (because they should periodically check to see if something is there).

This is conjecture, so I wish someone with a greater detailed knowledge of the USB protocol would comment. But,without more authorative knowledge I suspect that ANY enclosure with a USB interface runs the danger of screwing up the data flow through SATA/eSATA connections to the 8300. The bottom line would be: if you buy an enclosure with such an interface, then you should find a cable to do a direct connect from the drive to the 8300 and bypass the enclosure's interface altogether (if you possibly can).

Am I right?
I've been preaching that and would still personally practice it, but xnappo's point is that some dual interface enclosures are reported as universally successful. He further points out that they are more readily available than eSATA-only enclosures. I've conceded to xnappo on this, but I have to bite my lip (keyboard?) when someone's USB/SATA enclosure fails. :)

I've been preaching that and would still personally practice it, but xnappo's point is that some dual interface enclosures are reported as universally successful. He further points out that they are more readily available than eSATA-only enclosures. I've conceded to xnappo on this, but I have to bite my lip (keyboard?) when someone's USB/SATA enclosure fails. :)It was actually me who piped up, so if you feel the need to gloat at someone, do it in my direction.

All I'll say is "babies" and "bathwater". Xnappo's database makes a good sieve.

I've been preaching that and would still personally practice it, but xnappo's point is that some dual interface enclosures are reported as universally successful. He further points out that they are more readily available than eSATA-only enclosures. I've conceded to xnappo on this, but I have to bite my lip (keyboard?) when someone's USB/SATA enclosure fails. :)

Yeah, I would like to get a better understanding of this. I bet there aren't that many different chips/configurations being used in these enclosures - that's why I would be interested in a picture of the board to see if we can find a pattern to the failures. I suppose it isn't really a big deal though, since there are at least two readily available cases that we know work fine (Vantec and Apricorn).

When we first started this discussion people(myself included) were trying to save $100-$150 by building a combo we weren't sure would work (vs. Quickview Expander). Now people are trying to save $20... The risk isn't worth $20 to me.

xnappo

I've been preaching that and would still personally practice it, but xnappo's point is that some dual interface enclosures are reported as universally successful. He further points out that they are more readily available than eSATA-only enclosures. I've conceded to xnappo on this, but I have to bite my lip (keyboard?) when someone's USB/SATA enclosure fails. :)For me, it's easy to see how some interfaces may only interrupt the data flow when something is actually connected to the USB, yet others may constantly be interrupting it. I haven't dealt with any enclosures with such interfaces, but I would imagine that it would be possible (as someone else suggested recently) to disconnect that interface and connect the cable (to the 8300) directly.

But I like jruhnke's comment that: All I'll say is "babies" and "bathwater". Xnappo's database makes a good sieve.

Well, I watched some TV and recorded last night's House episode and played it back and I noticed more "digital skipping" than normal. This occurred on my DVR from time to time but seems to be happening more frequently now that I added the extra 500 GB.

Is there any way around this or does it depend on the drive?

It's kind of annoying but I'm willing to pay that price for the increased storage.

Well my question about the My Book drive and 8300HD use I sent to Western Digital has made it to "escalated" status.

I'll post if I hear anything.

I find it very amusing that the multitude of issues that occur between a hard disk and our beloved DVRs are being laid on things like USB "interfering" with the SATA connection. As far as I'm concerned, if this kind of equipment operates 100% correctly on a standard computer, it meets it goals. Issues that may arise being hooked to a DVR are 100% an issue with the DVR, not the drive or it's enclosure.

AND I only reiterate this because I can easily see many concluding the drives and their enclosures being the problem. How many folks reading what is written here have concluded that multi-interface drives are a problem when used with their computers?

I find it very amusing that the multitude of issues that occur between a hard disk and our beloved DVRs are being laid on things like USB "interfering" with the SATA connection. As far as I'm concerned, if this kind of equipment operates 100% correctly on a standard computer, it meets it goals. Issues that may arise being hooked to a DVR are 100% an issue with the DVR, not the drive or it's enclosure.

AND I only reiterate this because I can easily see many concluding the drives and their enclosures being the problem. How many folks reading what is written here have concluded that multi-interface drives are a problem when used with their computers?

It could be that the DVR needs to put greater demands on the disk than a computer does and cannot tolerate the interuptions of the USB interface circuitry.

Thing is, DVR makers test with bare drives. External disk makers test with computers.

If it's not tested, no guarantees.

I find it very amusing that the multitude of issues that occur between a hard disk and our beloved DVRs are being laid on things like USB "interfering" with the SATA connection. As far as I'm concerned, if this kind of equipment operates 100% correctly on a standard computer, it meets it goals. Issues that may arise being hooked to a DVR are 100% an issue with the DVR, not the drive or it's enclosure.

AND I only reiterate this because I can easily see many concluding the drives and their enclosures being the problem. How many folks reading what is written here have concluded that multi-interface drives are a problem when used with their computers?

Well, you posted your post again, so now I have to post my usual response again.

We are talking in the context of the SA8300 - which we know does not officially support eSATA.

We all realize pretty much any case and drive will work with a PC. The 8300 is flaky, but we can't change that variable. Some cases and drives work with the flaky 8300 better than others. There is an established pattern to this in the database. The next level is to investigate what is different between case A and case B. Again - there isn't any point agonizing over the piece of the equation we can't change.

xnappo

Is it any wonder why the cable companies really don't "support" the eSATA port?

From previous comments, Riverside_Guy believes that the SA8300 should be simply a PC, and anything that works with a PC should work with the SA8300. If it doesn't, it is obviously the fault of a crappy SA8300 design (because they didn't make it like a PC).

The 8300 may be flaky, but it seems to me that if cleaning/resetting internal connections in an enclosure fixes a problem temporarily, which has been done a number of times, it very much IS the enclosure. Also, if a given USB/SATA combo enclosure works with the 8300 and another doesn't, it very much COULD be the other enclosure. Furthermore, if many drives work in many enclosures and a drive like the Seagate 7200-10 (or whatever the number) doesn't, then it very much COULD be the drive.

I get sick and tired of so many placing the blame on the DVR when there are so many variables. Just because a drive/enclosure works on a stinking PC, doesn't mean they meet the SATA specs sufficiently to work with a DVR, the specs being pretty loose IMHO. All things are NOT equal. If they were, then if one drive/enclosure worked, they'd all work for crying out loud.

The 8300 may be flaky, but it seems to me that if cleaning/resetting internal connections in an enclosure fixes a problem temporarily, which has been done a number of times, it very much IS the enclosure. Also, if a given USB/SATA combo enclosure works with the 8300 and another doesn't, it very much COULD be the other enclosure. Furthermore, if many drives work in many enclosures and a drive like the Seagate 7200-10 (or whatever the number) doesn't, then it very much COULD be the drive.

I get sick and tired of so many placing the blame on the DVR when there are so many variables. Just because a drive/enclosure works on a stinking PC, doesn't mean they meet the SATA specs sufficiently to work with a DVR, the specs being pretty loose IMHO. All things are NOT equal. If they were, then if one drive/enclosure worked, they'd all work for crying out loud.

It's really frustrating trying to draw any conclusions as to cause and effect when dealing with apparent drive or enclosure failures detected by the 8300 that don't manifest themselves on the USB interface. I don't think any of us know what exactly the 8300 has detected when it insists that 'The external drive is not funcitoning properly" Having just gone through an exasperating incident just like that (the replacement is working beautifully for over a week now, knock on wood), I dearly wish I had the resources to do some real failure analysis on failures, but even if I had the hardware, the failure code on the 8300 is still a mystery, at least to me.

It seems to me we are left with only one option - to amass anecdotal evidence, as in the xnappo databases, to try to build a case for what works, and what doesn't, or doesn't work reliably. It isn't ideal or perfect, but it's certainly helpful.

I do know that if encounter another drive failure in the future, I will set up an esata interface on my PC to at least see if it can detect any problems with the drive.

I find it very amusing that the multitude of issues that occur between a hard disk and our beloved DVRs are being laid on things like USB "interfering" with the SATA connection. As far as I'm concerned, if this kind of equipment operates 100% correctly on a standard computer, it meets it goals. Issues that may arise being hooked to a DVR are 100% an issue with the DVR, not the drive or it's enclosure.

AND I only reiterate this because I can easily see many concluding the drives and their enclosures being the problem. How many folks reading what is written here have concluded that multi-interface drives are a problem when used with their computers?Without detailed analysis of the problem, one cannot conclusively say whether the DVR or the drive/enclosure is the "problem".

Interface specs are established with the intent that if every device adheres to the specs, they will reliably interface with each other with whatever level of reliability the spec was designed to support.

Say you have an external drive "X". Say you have a PC "P" and a DVR "D" that are supposed to each be able to talk to drive "X".

Now, say drive "X" is a little flaky, and doesn't rigidly adhere to its end of the interface specs. Say "P" is very tolerant of spec violations, but "D" requires the spec be met exactly. In this case, X may work fine with P, but X may not work at all with D.

By R_G's argument, D is the problem, but in reality D is doing exactly what the spec says it's supposed to do. It's X that's not holding up its end of the bargain.

I'm not saying that's necessarily our situation. I'm just saying it *could* be--we simply don't have enough data to know what device is the "problem".

At any rate, Xnappo's identified the key point: We're in this thread because we've all got 8300HDs--it's the constant. The drive/enclosure can be changed--it's the variable. Therefore, it doesn't matter which device is the "problem"; from the end-user's perspective, there's only one "solution":

If drive no workee, change out the drive/enclosure until it does.

I've been using an external drive for a while without a problem. However, lately, when I play back a recorded show, all I get is a channel titled "playback channel", the the recorded program does not play. Could this be due to my external drive failing?

Of course, you're right, jrunhke, just something for discussion. But, the problem children do seem to be some enclosures that include both SATA and USB capabilities. Pepar has always made the point that there may be some circuitry that is interferring with one or the other connection and I believe he recommends staying away from such enclosures. Of course, xnappo's excellent database shows which ones tend to be okay and which ones don't. I guess 'm of the opinion that there's nothing wrong with a discussion even if it won't change the end result. :)

I've been using an external drive for a while without a problem. However, lately, when I play back a recorded show, all I get is a channel titled "playback channel", the the recorded program does not play. Could this be due to my external drive failing?Don't know which software you're using, but it's been pointed out in the SARA thread that that happens from time to time and a "hard" reboot (see the first post in that thread) might fix it and allow you to view the recording (also in the first post of that thread).

Without detailed analysis of the problem, one cannot conclusively say whether the DVR or the drive/enclosure is the "problem".

Want to place money on how many drive/enclosire combo's that do NOT work or work unreliably coupled with a DVR will work just fine in ANY computer based application? I'd bet you 100% that fail with a DVR will succeed with a computer. eSATA controllers are a dime a dozen and very standard, so that leaves the software on the DVR as the ONLY likely culprit.

Out of thousands of drives I or my friends have bought (work or pleasure) for computer application, I can't really recall ANY that failed on first use or within the first week of being in service. Having bought my first HD back in 1984, I have personally gone through hundreds. I've had only 2 failures, both being months after going in service and both attributable to a known issue (original Barracuda's ran way, way too hot).

Sorry, I think my "conclusion" is on very solid ground!

Of course, you're right, jrunhke, just something for discussion. But, the problem children do seem to be some enclosures that include both SATA and USB capabilities. Pepar has always made the point that there may be some circuitry that is interferring with one or the other connection and I believe he recommends staying away from such enclosures. Of course, xnappo's excellent database shows which ones tend to be okay and which ones don't. I guess 'm of the opinion that there's nothing wrong with a discussion even if it won't change the end result. :)

Has ANYONE seen, heard, read, or experienced this supposed "interference of the signals" on multi-transfer technology drives causing ANY issues in a computer application? I have never heard of such and I'm kind of in the business. Plus I tend to get MANY calls for help with such applications.

Again, I'm ONLY trying to point out that as long as such units seem to have a 100% reliable track record doing the job they were meant to do (store bits & bytes and get them in and out), if they fail to do that job only when hooked up to DVRs, the responsibility is 100% with the DVR software.

What I finds odd, is that obviously intelligent guys like yourself would attribute the "fault" to the fact that the drive has multiple i/o channels "interfering" with each other.

After Riverside_Guy's last post, my earlier post bears repeating:Is it any wonder why the cable companies really don't "support" the eSATA port?

From previous comments, Riverside_Guy believes that the SA8300 should be simply a PC, and anything that works with a PC should work with the SA8300. If it doesn't, it is obviously the fault of a crappy SA8300 design (because they didn't make it like a PC).My point is that the SA8300 is NOT a PC, what it needs in terms of an external drive is different than what a PC will tolerate. It is not that the 8300 is "crappy" - it is that it is DIFFERENT (a concept that some can't seem to grasp!)

Has ANYONE seen, heard, read, or experienced this supposed "interference of the signals" on multi-transfer technology drives causing ANY issues in a computer application?

Umm, do a search:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=51&threadid=2048694&enterthread=y

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=350510
(Tivo, but look at FAQ 32 - look familiar? FYI FreeAgent uses 7200.10 drives!)

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/24609792/m/900009750831

http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?p=1096178

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Forum/tm.asp?m=134059

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=307549

I could keep going, but I am tired of Googling. eSATA is a very new specification and there are bound to be issues.

xnappo

I've been using an external drive for a while without a problem. However, lately, when I play back a recorded show, all I get is a channel titled "playback channel", the the recorded program does not play. Could this be due to my external drive failing?

I think I had this same issue one day when I was trying to play back the latest 3 recordings from my Cavalry drive. I would select the program and instead of playing, it would pop up a screen asking me to press the list button to view programs and such. I was really puzzled by this and other recorded programs would play. I tried a couple hours later and they played fine. I'm not sure if you're having the same issue, but hopefully they'll work after a little bit.

There have been similar issues reported on the SARA thread with a suspicion that it is related to SARA version 1.89. That particular problem is resolved when you select a different recorded program, play it for just a second or two, then come back to the list and select the original program again.

There have been similar issues reported on the SARA thread with a suspicion that it is related to SARA version 1.89. That particular problem is resolved when you select a different recorded program, play it for just a second or two, then come back to the list and select the original program again.

Wow! It appears to me, that there are so many variable to what will be acceptable for proper operation. Debating which piece of equiptment is following true specs or not is good for the engineers over coffee to do, but doesn't help us users at all.

A databank on which drives work for others is so far the best way we have not to spend money on equiptment which is known to cause trouble. That's not to say it will continue to run properly as software updates might cause future bugs and issues to arise with certain combinations of hardware.

That's why an official approved cable company sanctioned list of extrnal hard drives would be nice, this way they can test future software updates on all those drives and conclude success before releasing and pushing such firmware updates out to all customers.

...That's why an official approved cable company sanctioned list of extrnal hard drives would be nice, this way they can test future software updates on all those drives and conclude success before releasing and pushing such firmware updates out to all customers.

That would be nice, but I'd be totally amazed if any of the cable companies would take on that responsibility, and potential liabilities. Once they did, they would own a piece of any of the problems we encounter with the external drives.

Unless they were actively promoting their own esata drives, I think they would rather give away free first run movies in HD than get into this domain at all.

I've been using an external drive for a while without a problem. However, lately, when I play back a recorded show, all I get is a channel titled "playback channel", the the recorded program does not play. Could this be due to my external drive failing?

I believe this symptom is caused when you request content stored on the Sata drive but the box cannot access the Sata drive. To correct, I unplug the box and the Sata drive; power the box back on, wait a few minutes, then power the Sata drive back on.

My suspicion is that this issue is caused by a voltage change that drops the connection. Both devices then race to re-establish the connection and the Sata drive wins.

Woohoo! Apricorn box and Samsung drive in da house! Now, it is sata/usb, but the Apricorn dual is well documented as working fine with the 8300, so I have no doubts there. As to the Samsung 500GB, well, we'll see tonite...

wish me luck!
daloosh

I believe this symptom is caused when you request content stored on the Sata drive but the box cannot access the Sata drive. To correct, I unplug the box and the Sata drive; power the box back on, wait a few minutes, then power the Sata drive back on.

My suspicion is that this issue is caused by a voltage change that drops the connection. Both devices then race to re-establish the connection and the Sata drive wins.

Good theory!
More of a case to use a UPS now, I wonder if it pays for me to run an extension cord from my computer UPS (in the other room) to the room with cable box and external sata and add them to this backup power supply. They won't draw much amps, probably won't effect anything negatively at all with computer UPS workings.

It's worth a try for free backup protection, since I already have a UPS working in the house. Unless this causes ground loop issues with tv's and amp's running off seperate power from the cable box then?

That's why an official approved cable company sanctioned list of extrnal hard drives would be nice, this way they can test future software updates on all those drives and conclude success before releasing and pushing such firmware updates out to all customers.But, first a cable company needs to commit to supporting the external drive - as far as I know, NO US Cable company even does this. In fact, most will tell their customers that the eSATA port is not activated!

But we do have Xnappo's list. :p

But, first a cable company needs to commit to supporting the external drive - as far as I know, NO US Cable company even does this. In fact, most will tell their customers that the eSATA port is not activated!

But we do have Xnappo's list. :p

well Time Warner of NYC gave me an installation booklet and inside it says you can plug in an external sata but tells you to only use approved drives.
Ok? Approved by who? and where does one find a list of such approved drives?

maybe they are getting ready to release this data? maybe SA has a list?

anyway, good thing for Xnappo's list, true! IN fact, SA will probably use that to compile their own.
:)

well Time Warner of NYC gave me an installation booklet and inside it says you can plug in an external sata but tells you to only use approved drives.
Ok? Approved by who? and where does one find a list of such approved drives?

maybe they are getting ready to release this data? maybe SA has a list?Was that a standard SA document (written for SARA as well)? The documentation on the SA web site covers the external drive and refers to the cable company. I'll bet that is the case and if you call TW and ask for the list that they will give you the usual cableco line ("It's not enabled" or "It's not supported").

What I finds odd, is that obviously intelligent guys like yourself would attribute the "fault" to the fact that the drive has multiple i/o channels "interfering" with each other.You must be having a slow day or something. You haven't posted in quite a while and now all you want to do is argue with anyone whose opinion differs from yours. No one said that is a fact, we are all just supposing because no one, including you, knows just what the problem is. As the other Dave said, these DVRs are NOT computers and the fact that the drives/enclosures work with computers means absolutely nothing. What I find odd is that you even care. If you want to be right, okay, you're right. Happy? Long live xnappo's databases. :)

I believe this symptom is caused when you request content stored on the Sata drive but the box cannot access the Sata drive. To correct, I unplug the box and the Sata drive; power the box back on, wait a few minutes, then power the Sata drive back on.

My suspicion is that this issue is caused by a voltage change that drops the connection. Both devices then race to re-establish the connection and the Sata drive wins.This problem happens to some of us without SATA drives, so SATA could be a factor in some, but it is certainly not the only cause.

This problem happens to some of us without SATA drives, so SATA could be a factor in some, but it is certainly not the only cause.

This is a true statement. Some other items that may cause this particular symptom include loss of authorization for the DVR service, loss of connectivity or my personal favorite (and most often correct) memory allocation failure in which a reboot of the box corrects. I am certainly not an expert on this so there may be other causes not discussed yet....

If you have it open, I'd be interested in the photos of the little board in there...

xnappo

Two little board pix from seagate FreeAgent Pro 750GB:

Am I to understand that IF I replace the 8300HD, that the saved recordings on the SATA drive will not be readable on a new one?

Am I to understand that IF I replace the 8300HD, that the saved recordings on the SATA drive will not be readable on a new one?(Hi Again :cool: ) That's correct - the data (on both the internal and external drive) is encoded with a key that is unique to the particular 8300HD.

My External Hard Drive Update :)

I've had my external hard drive setup now for 5 months (my setup is listed as the first for 2007 in Xnappo's SARA database) and last night the external drive finally reached it's capacity (99% anyway)! I know this because I was recording "Gladiator" on TNT and the first 130 minutes recorded, then the last 50 minutes recorded separately (on the internal drive or separate area of external drive!?) I purposely never let it get full before in fear of losing a program but all 70 of my previously recorded programs were set as "Until I Erase" and so I wasn't worried about losing any of them.

To date, I've had only one recording with problems - a show that was split into 3 separate recordings a few months ago!? Otherwise, it's been smooth sailing thanks to all the good advice I received on this thread at the end of '06. My only other concern was one that I previously reported several months ago: If I move either the DVR or the external drive even a slight amount, the connection will screwup requiring a reboot. Once rebooted, though, all is well! (obviously I don't move them much). I also want to add that I haven't had any problems with "trick play" features - at least that I've noticed! All rewind functions of both live/recorded programs seem to work well!

With my 500 gB hard drive, I find it simply amazing what this little box (plus the DVR's internal drive) can hold. Presently, I have saved for my family's summertime viewing: the aforementioned "Gladiator", the last 14 hours of "24", all six Star Wars movies, 9 hours of "Planet Earth", 24, yes, 24 hours! of "Dancing with Stars"*, two NFL games, 3 kid's movies and 2-4 episodes each of "Lost", "Ugly Betty"*, "Grey's Anatomy"* and "Desperate Housewives* - ALL in HD! Plus a few SD recordings also.

* - for my wife! ;)

This list will probably not impress anyone who already has an external hard drive but for anyone who's thinking about this addition to their system. I just have to say: go for it! My DVR/ external hard drive combination has become my single favorite part of my home theatre!

Has anyone with an 8300HD running Passport software with an eSATA drive been able to use the live rewind feature? From my understanding most people can't but has ANYONE gotten it to work?

Successful with the 500G Cavalry CAXM37500 from newegg.com for $110 AR for the past week. My 320G Seagate drive finally died after cooking in a generic case with no fan for the past two years.

Cracked open the case (ooh, voiding the warranty - I like to live dangerously) & it was a WD5000AAKS, just as reported by many other purchasers. Cost was less than the drive alone from newegg, and it's a nice case with a on-off switch for the fan.

This is w/ Cox Cable in Fairfax, VA.

First time I had it in use was with the TNT NBA Playoff game; had tons of breakups - thought it was the case/drive, but it turns out that was a signal issue. No problems since then, lots of simultaneous recordings with playback of a third program - very solid.

My External Hard Drive Update :)

With my 500 gB hard drive, I find it simply amazing what this little box (plus the DVR's internal drive) can hold. Presently, I have saved for my family's summertime viewing: the aforementioned "Gladiator", the last 14 hours of "24", all six Star Wars movies, 9 hours of "Planet Earth", 24, yes, 24 hours! of "Dancing with Stars"*, two NFL games, 3 kid's movies and 2-4 episodes each of "Lost", "Ugly Betty"*, "Grey's Anatomy"* and "Desperate Housewives* - ALL in HD! Plus a few SD recordings also.


I seemed to have had a problem that I'm trying to test out now.

I thought everything was working fine, but then realized that I wasn't getting the recording times that I had when I first hooked up the external drive.

So I managed to finally take a look and discovered (thru the diag page) that the external drive was off-line.

And yes, it was the cable. I just reseated it and rebooted the DVR and it saw the external drive (in my case it is a 500 GB drive).

But now I have to test to see how much it can record.

What's unfortunate, it lost a program that I had saved for months on it. So the index can be messed up if the drive goes off line for too long.

Anyway have any comments or experience with this happening.

Rob

Well folks, I'm as frustrated as can be...

This week, I lost my third 500GB drive, this one a Seagate model in a Glyph enclosure. It's making the same clicking noises (read/write head hitting the spindle) and the SA8300 won't recognize it.

There goes my 1080i Star Wars vol 1-6, all my South Park's, current seasons of House, Weeds and Bones, and some keeper movies in HD from HBO and Showtime.

SO - Western Digital, Hitachi and Seagate 500GB drives, all failed. Seagate 750GB drive - failed. In either Glyph or G-Tech enclosures. They worked fine up until I passed 300GB of storage, then they started to get flaky.

I've got 2 Glyph drives left, both with 400GB Seagates in them - so far, no problems.

Hitachi released a 1TB drive in April, would love to get THAT to work, but would settle for a good, solid 500GB. Did Maxtor ever come out with a 500GB for DVR?

To add insult to injury, my 50" Sony SXRD set just had the OB go kaflooey - I've got the dreaded "yellow stain" :mad:

It doesn't rain, it pours.

-gil

What are the chances that SA releases an update for the 8300HD that creates the buffer on eSATA drives soon?

What are the chances that SA releases an update for the 8300HD that creates the buffer on eSATA drives soon?They released that ages ago. The buffer issue only exists with Passport (not developed by SA).

I was looking at the Seagate Freeagent 500mb with esata connection to extend storage on my 8300HD. Will this work and is the connection on the 8300HD esata as well or will I need a esata to sata?

I was looking at the Seagate Freeagent 500mb with esata connection to extend storage on my 8300HD. Will this work and is the connection on the 8300HD esata as well or will I need a esata to sata?

I'd guess it won't work if it's the USB/eSata model. I know the FreeAgent Pro 750GB USB/eSata model does not work.

If it's eSata only it proly will work.

I just replaced my 320 gig wd3200ys with the 500 gig WD5000AAKS which according to the database works with the epower enclosure i've been using. What I notice is dropouts are much worse and I have many more shows that partialy record or end early. And now I have somthing brand new. The show will play then all of a sudden replay about 1 or 2 minutes of the segment I had just watched. I ordered the Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT esata only enclosure to see if that helps but if not then its back to the 320 gig epower setup.

Thanks for the report, dannyv; hope you have better luck with the Apricorn. (Don't forget to record your observations in Xnappo's database (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/main) so others may benefit from your experience!)

I'd guess it won't work if it's the USB/eSata model. I know the FreeAgent Pro 750GB USB/eSata model does not work.

If it's eSata only it proly will work.

Thanks for the info.

Does anyone think the freeagent drive could be modified. The enclosure has USB/ESata connections. Im just wondering what type of drive is inside? Would it be a sata? Im not sure how they do the USB/ESata but Im thinking if I could bypass all of that and just connect directy into the drive.. again assuming its sata.

If anyone thinks that could be modified Im thinking of maybe modifying the WD 1TB external.

Also what connection is on back of the 8300, Sata or ESata?

Thanks for the info.

Does anyone think the freeagent drive could be modified. The enclosure has USB/ESata connections. Im just wondering what type of drive is inside? Would it be a sata? Im not sure how they do the USB/ESata but Im thinking if I could bypass all of that and just connect directy into the drive.. again assuming its sata.

If anyone thinks that could be modified Im thinking of maybe modifying the WD 1TB external.

Also what connection is on back of the 8300, Sata or ESata?

I suspect that it depends on what drive is inside, it may or may not be the circuitry. You could certainly open it and see. I have heard that *some* of them have a Seagate 7200.10 series - which if you look in the database has the lowest success rate out there. Others have different drives and have gotten them to work by bypassing the case. I should also note that on the equivalent TIVO forum, many people had to try more than one cable to get it working with TIVO.

My advice? Use the database - it isn't worth the frustration to experiment (well unless you want to for fun, which is appreciated).

xnappo

I suspect that it depends on what drive is inside, it may or may not be the circuitry. You could certainly open it and see. I have heard that *some* of them have a Seagate 7200.10 series - which if you look in the database has the lowest success rate out there. Others have different drives and have gotten them to work by bypassing the case. I should also note that on the equivalent TIVO forum, many people had to try more than one cable to get it working with TIVO.

My advice? Use the database - it isn't worth the frustration to experiment (well unless you want to for fun, which is appreciated).

xnappo

Okay.. thanks. Looking at the database I did not know that some of the drives listed were actually manufactured units and not just drives and enclosures purchased and assembled. I was looking for a self contained unit that I could just buy so it looks like the Apricorn 750 for me.

Okay.. thanks. Looking at the database I did not know that some of the drives listed were actually manufactured units and not just drives and enclosures purchased and assembled. I was looking for a self contained unit that I could just buy so it looks like the Apricorn 750 for me.

The connection on the 8300HD is eSata.

If you want a guaranteed, plug and play use this link: http://discountechnology.com/8300HD-eSATA-Hard-Drive-for-Scientific-Atlanta-8300HD-DVR-500GB?sc=2&category=12

However, last I heard they will only guarantee SARA not PASSPORT and they are expensive. Other size drives are available.

Thanks for the info.

Does anyone think the freeagent drive could be modified. The enclosure has USB/ESata connections. Im just wondering what type of drive is inside? Would it be a sata? Im not sure how they do the USB/ESata but Im thinking if I could bypass all of that and just connect directy into the drive.. again assuming its sata.

If anyone thinks that could be modified Im thinking of maybe modifying the WD 1TB external.

Also what connection is on back of the 8300, Sata or ESata?

The drive inside the FreeAgent Pro 750GB is a Seagate 7200 16MB Sata2 drive.

I took it out and it works fine with a direct Sata/eSata cable.

The drive inside the FreeAgent Pro 750GB is a Seagate 7200 16MB Sata2 drive.

I took it out and it works fine with a direct Sata/eSata cable.
The model info you gave seems incomplete; was there a model number?

Well folks, I'm as frustrated as can be...

This week, I lost my third 500GB drive, this one a Seagate model in a Glyph enclosure. It's making the same clicking noises (read/write head hitting the spindle) and the SA8300 won't recognize it.

There goes my 1080i Star Wars vol 1-6, all my South Park's, current seasons of House, Weeds and Bones, and some keeper movies in HD from HBO and Showtime.

SO - Western Digital, Hitachi and Seagate 500GB drives, all failed. Seagate 750GB drive - failed. In either Glyph or G-Tech enclosures. They worked fine up until I passed 300GB of storage, then they started to get flaky.

I've got 2 Glyph drives left, both with 400GB Seagates in them - so far, no problems.

Hitachi released a 1TB drive in April, would love to get THAT to work, but would settle for a good, solid 500GB. Did Maxtor ever come out with a 500GB for DVR?

To add insult to injury, my 50" Sony SXRD set just had the OB go kaflooey - I've got the dreaded "yellow stain" :mad:

It doesn't rain, it pours.

-gil

Wow, are you sure you didn't kill a child's puppy for that kind of karma retribution? I'm sorry to hear about all of the problems. I'll have to see if I have issues with my WD 500GB after it reaches the 300GB mark. I also have a Sony SXRD, how long did you have yours before the problem?

Well folks, I'm as frustrated as can be...

This week, I lost my third 500GB drive, this one a Seagate model in a Glyph enclosure. It's making the same clicking noises (read/write head hitting the spindle) and the SA8300 won't recognize it.

There goes my 1080i Star Wars vol 1-6, all my South Park's, current seasons of House, Weeds and Bones, and some keeper movies in HD from HBO and Showtime.

SO - Western Digital, Hitachi and Seagate 500GB drives, all failed. Seagate 750GB drive - failed. In either Glyph or G-Tech enclosures. They worked fine up until I passed 300GB of storage, then they started to get flaky.

I've got 2 Glyph drives left, both with 400GB Seagates in them - so far, no problems.

Hitachi released a 1TB drive in April, would love to get THAT to work, but would settle for a good, solid 500GB. Did Maxtor ever come out with a 500GB for DVR?

To add insult to injury, my 50" Sony SXRD set just had the OB go kaflooey - I've got the dreaded "yellow stain" :mad:

It doesn't rain, it pours.

I know it doesn't match your experience by my hitachi 500GB drive has been going strong for a year and a half. I've had it up to 85% full and back down to the 20s with no problems. Since you've had so many drives from so many manufacturers die on you I would really start looking at your enclosure and heat/power issues. Since I don't trust Time Warner I try to not have anything on it that I would want to permanently keep, just not worth it for when it all eventually comes crashing down.

Well folks, I'm as frustrated as can be...

This week, I lost my third 500GB drive, this one a Seagate model in a Glyph enclosure. It's making the same clicking noises (read/write head hitting the spindle) and the SA8300 won't recognize it.

There goes my 1080i Star Wars vol 1-6, all my South Park's, current seasons of House, Weeds and Bones, and some keeper movies in HD from HBO and Showtime.

SO - Western Digital, Hitachi and Seagate 500GB drives, all failed. Seagate 750GB drive - failed. In either Glyph or G-Tech enclosures. They worked fine up until I passed 300GB of storage, then they started to get flaky.

I've got 2 Glyph drives left, both with 400GB Seagates in them - so far, no problems.

Hitachi released a 1TB drive in April, would love to get THAT to work, but would settle for a good, solid 500GB. Did Maxtor ever come out with a 500GB for DVR?

To add insult to injury, my 50" Sony SXRD set just had the OB go kaflooey - I've got the dreaded "yellow stain" :mad:

It doesn't rain, it pours.

-gil

WOW, I don't know ANYONE that has had so many HD failures. AND I have gone through many more drives than most with only 2 failures in 15 years or so (I currently have 11 drives, 2 in constant service, the others less frequently).

Have you assessed those drives to be failures by attaching them to a computer? Honestly I would NEVER assume a drive went bad if there was an issue using it as an external drive to an 8300...

I am in Fort Worth, I have an explorer 8300 regular from charter cable.

One thread said copy protection must be activated, I check the diagnostic screen

COPY PROTECTION
Outputs Protection Type Enabled
DVI/HDMI none no
YPrPb none yes
1394 disabled disabled
composite none / none

5 policies those listed above and VOD
And CCI events for RF disk, RF Video output, and Disk Video Output

So since SATA isn't on the list of outputs does that mean that charter from Fort Worth's software doesn't have SATA enabled?

I bought a mybook 500gb from WD and nothing happends when I plugged it into the SATA with an esata to esata connection. It just power cycles like normal. I now see after lots of time on this forum that MyBooks don't have good track records, 0'fer actually. But it didn't even say that the drive was corrupt or anything, it gives no message on tens of power cycles and info pressings.

Not one success has been listed for Fort Worth or Charter St Louis on the SARA eSATA comptibility list.

COMPONENT INFORMATION
ROM Image, OS 6.14.83.2, SARA 1.89.20.1, PowerKEY LIB, HAL Driver, firebus, fbdtcp, and PHAL3 Driver are all that are on the Component Information page of the diagnostic, all but the firebus and fbdtcp are 1/30/07 or newer and those two are 06/05ish.

Is that component list one more bit of evidence that SATA is not enabled or did I miss it and one of those is SATA? Any help would be nice. Like if I should just wait till Charter turns on SATA or if I should keep trying now with vagish guidelines I got from this forum, vague just because no Fort Worth or Charter entries are on the list.

Also is there a pause 62 like function that power cycles or reboots or activates SATA with the remote like I have read about on TIVO forums? Since the pause page - bring s up the diagnostic menu.

Is that component list one more bit of evidence that SATA is not enabled or did I miss it and one of those is SATA? Any help would be nice. Like if I should just wait till Charter turns on SATA or if I should keep trying now with vagish guidelines I got from this forum, vague just because no Fort Worth or Charter entries are on the list.sintient,

I just pointed this out on a different thread: There are no items on the SARA diagnostics screens that indicate that the eSATA port is or is not enabled. That port has been fully enabled on SARA for some time now. The screens will reflect the additional Hard Drive capacity and version 1.89.xx.xx (which you have) will show the two separate drives on certain screens.

Go back to the first post and follow the installation and booting instructions. It often takes two reboots: the first to format and the second to recognize.

Things may appear vague, because there have been some variations in experiences and because there is apparently a different installation process for Passport systems. I've suggested many times that this thread should be shut down and separate SARA and Passport threads should be started - but that has never happened - so the confusion remains for the "newbe" to figure out.

BTW: Here is a Link to the SA User Guide for the SA8300HD (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/userguidepdfs/4003986.pdf). Page 22 of the PDF (printed page 16) covers the Hard Drive installation.

This morning my neighborhood had a power outage that lasted about one hour. When we lost power I turned off the APC UPS on our bedroom system with an 8300HD w/ext 250GB Maxtor Quickview. (The other 8300HD in the "serious" system is surge protected, but not UPS'd.) When I came back in from spraying weeds, power had been restored and I immediately went to the bedroom system and turned on the UPS. Up powered the external drive an d the DVR began its booting sequence. When that was complete, I turned it on and went to LIST where I saw titles that had been erased long ago and missing titles along with some things that should have been there. I knew I was screwed, but turned off the 8300HD and unplugged the external drive. I turned the 8300HD back on and hot plugged the external drive and got this screen. (dvr 001.jpg)

I hit "Restart Now" and got this screen. (dvr 002.jpg) And it rebooted.

When everything came back up, I again looked at my LIST and saw it was unchanged from before, i.e. things that should be there weren't and things that shouldn't be there were - in name only as when I tried to play them, I got this screen. (dvr 003.jpg)

Quite few items were "phantom," but many were still there. They were recorded on the internal drive.

This evening I came home and the first chance I got I went up to the theater to check. I powered up and got this screen. (dvr 007.jpg) I hit "Accept" and found that my approx forty-five action/adventure/sci-fi movies were all still there.

Just after I first added external storage to my drives, I experienced content loss on one of my ext drives, but that time the UPS was on the "serious" system - and so was the loss. I had intervened then with the UPS as I did this time. Cause and effect somehow? I do not know. Luck of the draw more likely. But the next power outage will find me not touching anything.

I post this not to complain, or even to cast aspersions on UPS units, but rather as a reminder of how fragile our recorded content is and how finicky our rigs are. Loss can occur at any time.

And now I'm headed to watch Dead Man's Chest again . . .

Sorry for your loss, pepar, but you are absolutely right. Anyone who has lost a hard drive on a PC knows how frustrating it can be and how easy it can happen. I really feel sorry for those who archive series for summer viewing and I'm awfully glad I don't watch TV that way. Since you have the UPS, there should be a way to determine if there is a proper way to recover from an extended outage so as not to lose data; like power everything off, power on the UPS, power on the SATA, power on the 8300, in whatever sequence retains all the recordings. Seems like someone mentioned the SATA should be powered on first, though usually the SATA is up before the 8300 finishes it's boot if both are powered on at the same time.

Seems like someone mentioned the SATA should be powered on first, though usually the SATA is up before the 8300 finishes it's boot if both are powered on at the same time.Yeh Dave, no sweat with SARA - but Jeff has Passport - and I think that is the difference.

Yeh Dave, no sweat with SARA - but Jeff has Passport - and I think that is the difference.You really think so? From what he said in his post, he has 2 units and only one was corrupted, the one he messed with that had the UPS. ;)

Just as an aside, there is one other difference, Jeff. :)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

You really think so? From what he said in his post, he has 2 units and only one was corrupted, the one he messed with that had the UPS. ;)

Just as an aside, there is one other difference, Jeff. :)

Sorry, couldn't resist.
:)

Thanks for the info, I just remember on another page of the thread that someone said that "copy protection must be on." And since there is a diagnostic page for copy protection I thought there might be some evidence there. It now seems in my case that I should try something other than the eSATA to eSATA WD MyBook. I tried the instructions many many times. All unplugged plug in MyBook and turn it on, then plug in 8300 and basically no extra message screen ever comes up. Just a a normal dvr experience with no formatting warning or error message at all. I guess back to best buy and try a maxtor eSATA enclosure.

Did I understand correctly that eventually, you got all yer stuff back?

Jeff and I take different routes, he archives everything and only watches from his 8300. I try and keep no more than 16-18 hours on the 8300, so I'm quick to watch and delete (I categorically refuse to deal with the trick play bug, I do a LOT of pause).

The problem is the "never enough" syndrome. Every time you buy a "larger" container, you run out of space and need another "larger" container. I sit here and survey my computer and see I have 2.6 T of disk space available. If I got another T, guess what? I'd find a way to fill it up within a half year (or faster)!

God forbid whatever STB I have works as cleanly with external drives as my trusty Mac does; within a year I'd have a hundred hours of HD goodness and NO time to watch any of it!

Did I understand correctly that eventually, you got all yer stuff back?
Nope, gone into the great bit bucket in the sky. But we had been pretty much caught up on the regular series we watch. Missed the final episode of Boston Legal, but am able to re-record Tudors. Most of the movies that were recorded happened to be on the internal drive, so they're still there.

Jeff and I take different routes, he archives everything and only watches from his 8300. I try and keep no more than 16-18 hours on the 8300, so I'm quick to watch and delete . . .
We almost aways "clear" our recorded series episodes before the next one airs, although I did recently record the last five or so episodes of Hero and watch them in one sitting. The 8300HD in the "serious" system is, however, a different matter. I'll have a 1080p projector sometime in the next 3 months and am trying to use my DVR to tide me over until I decide to buy into BD/HD-DVD. Losing what's on there would have decremented my mental state substantially. :)

Does anyone else have an issue with the 8300HD video dropping out every once in a while (including the GUI)? It will go black for a second, then come back, and keep flickering like that until I unplug it. Most of the time if I unplug the DVR and plug it back in it'll fix the problem, but occasionally it will continue until I restart several times. I'm not sure if this would be an issue with it overheating, or if there's a handshake issue with HDMI. I would think that if it's a handshake issue, the audio would drop out as well. I'm about ready to exchange the box, but I don't want to lose all of my recordings.

Does anyone else have an issue with the 8300HD video dropping out every once in a while (including the GUI)? It will go black for a second, then come back, and keep flickering like that until I unplug it. Most of the time if I unplug the DVR and plug it back in it'll fix the problem, but occasionally it will continue until I restart several times. I'm not sure if this would be an issue with it overheating, or if there's a handshake issue with HDMI. I would think that if it's a handshake issue, the audio would drop out as well. I'm about ready to exchange the box, but I don't want to lose all of my recordings.

Must ... Hold back .... HDMI rant...

Phew.

You should try component cables for a few days and see if it was HDMI.

Oh no - I've lost it! HDMI was not 'engineered' much. Any engineering in it was done for the content providers, not the consumer.

xnappo

P.S. Yes, I know it is mostly HDCP not HDMI, but they are pretty tied together now.

Oh no - I've lost it!...and yet, it was a valiant effort, and the explosive release was well-contained!

Next time, you can tell us how you *really* feel about it... :)

MyBook and 8300HD:

Well I got my reply from Western Digital support, concerning the MY Book not working with the 8300HD:

Dear Roger,

Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support.

I apologize but I am unable to help you because this is a system issue that is outside the range of Western Digital’s standard support. Please contact the system vendor for assistance.
---

MyBook and 8300HD:

Well I got my reply from Western Digital support, concerning the MY Book not working with the 8300HD:

Dear Roger,

Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support.

I apologize but I am unable to help you because this is a system issue that is outside the range of Western Digital’s standard support. Please contact the system vendor for assistance.
---
Not only a "buzz off," but a cryptic one at that. A "system" issue? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot does that mean? :confused:

Not only a "buzz off," but a cryptic one at that. A "system" issue? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot does that mean? :confused:It means that they didn't design this to use with the 8300 (the "system") so they aren't responsible.

AKA: Pass the buck!

This is interesting:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=351824
rsnyder6 - take a close look at your cable.

xnappo

This is interesting:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=351824
rsnyder6 - take a close look at your cable.

xnappo
Wow, that is good to know.. I bet a LOT of people having problems connecting external HDs to PCs would be interested in that too.

This is interesting:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=351824
rsnyder6 - take a close look at your cable.

xnappo

That is very interesting. I just looked up the specs on the cable I'm using and it is infact an esata1 cable. This could be the whole problem to my intermitten recordings as well as the dropouts. It kinda makes sence now that when I disconnect and reconnect the cable it seems OK for about a week and then the problems return. I'll have to try trimming the cable. I'll report back.

OK my 8300 started just restarting about three days ago, two days after I must have unplugged and plugged it back in trying to get a mybook working 30 times maybe the problem maybe not, but the young guy working at the cable shop said that the sata was not activated by fort worth charter. He said it shouldn't work and he has had friends that have tried. I tried with a mybook didn't work, but I know the software is SARA 1.20. Think he was wrong or is this the first version of SARA without sata activated?

OK my 8300 started just restarting about three days ago, two days after I must have unplugged and plugged it back in trying to get a mybook working 30 times maybe the problem maybe not, but the young guy working at the cable shop said that the sata was not activated by fort worth charter. He said it shouldn't work and he has had friends that have tried. I tried with a mybook didn't work, but I know the software is SARA 1.20. Think he was wrong or is this the first version of SARA without sata activated?

As far as we know, there have been 0 cases of SARA NOT having active eSATA. Your friend is very likely wrong - but it isn't his fault - he just heard too much propaganda.

MyBook's have not be very successful - you might check into the article on the Tivo board I recently linked to and see if you have a 'long' or 'short' tip on your cable. If it is short - you might try another cable or trimming the existing one as shown in the article.

xnappo

I know the software is SARA 1.20. Think he was wrong or is this the first version of SARA without sata activated?That does not sound like any version of SARA that is in use elsewhere. Are you sure about the version (or that it is SARA)?

That is very interesting. I just looked up the specs on the cable I'm using and it is infact an esata1 cable. This could be the whole problem to my intermitten recordings as well as the dropouts. It kinda makes sence now that when I disconnect and reconnect the cable it seems OK for about a week and then the problems return. I'll have to try trimming the cable. I'll report back.

After further examination of the cable I found it to actually be an sata2. I finally got around to switching my epower enclosure with the apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT while still using the WD5000AAKS 500GB hard drive. Unfortunitly it made no difference. I still get drop outs every 5-10 minutes or so but as of yet i have not had any shows cutting off early but its only been about aweek or so. I noticed that the worst problems happen when I'm recording 2 HD shows while watching one pre-recorded show. But I've also had the show cut off early while only recording one HD program at 3AM while I'm asleep which you would figure would be the best time to record because of the low cable bandwidth demand at that hour. Go figure.

Small point, but there is NO SUCH THING as a sata1 or sata2 cable. Drives can be sata1 or sata2, but all cables are the same and only the CONNECTORS can be different (most commonly used terms are L or internal vs. I or eSATA).

Small point, but there is NO SUCH THING as a sata1 or sata2 cable. Drives can be sata1 or sata2, but all cables are the same and only the CONNECTORS can be different (most commonly used terms are L or internal vs. I or eSATA).

Actually that isn't quite right either:
http://www.sata-io.org/esata.asp
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2450

I believe if something is marked SATA I it means it is a device complying standards defined by the SATA 1.0a spec. If it says SATAII it complies to standards defined by the SATAII (now called SATAIO) committee.

The SATAII committee standard for eSATA connectors can be found here:
http://www.sata-io.org/esata.asp
"To prevent ESD damage, the insertion depth is increased from 5mm to 6.6mm and the contacts are mounted further back in both the receptacle and plug."
There was no eSATA standard set by the SATA 1.0a spec.

Of course, this is so damn confusing that things are bound to be marked any which way the marketer pleases.

Anyway - the point is, make sure your connector depth is 6.6mm

xnappo

After further examination of the cable I found it to actually be an sata2. I finally got around to switching my epower enclosure with the apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT while still using the WD5000AAKS 500GB hard drive. Unfortunitly it made no difference. I still get drop outs every 5-10 minutes or so but as of yet i have not had any shows cutting off early but its only been about aweek or so. I noticed that the worst problems happen when I'm recording 2 HD shows while watching one pre-recorded show. But I've also had the show cut off early while only recording one HD program at 3AM while I'm asleep which you would figure would be the best time to record because of the low cable bandwidth demand at that hour. Go figure.

Sorry to hear that - that is really annoying. I assume you used the cable that came with the Apricorn? Seems that you are now using the most robust combo in the database but still seeing problems. Just curious - what is the build date on your 8300(sticker on the bottom)?

xnappo

Sorry, I gave a quick read to those links and neither said what I said was "wrong" or incorrect. And one of them did have some BS:

"Key benefits of eSATA:Up to 6 times faster than existing external storage solutions: USB 2.0, & 1394"

WRONG, eSATA refers to the connectors and has NOTHING to do with the I/O capability of the drive itself. One can very easily use eSATA connectors with SATA 1/SATA-150/SATA 1.5Gb/s drive as well as SATA 2/SATA-300/SATA 3.0Gb/s drive.

Sorry, I gave a quick read to those links and neither said what I said was "wrong" or incorrect. And one of them did have some BS:

"Key benefits of eSATA:Up to 6 times faster than existing external storage solutions: USB 2.0, & 1394"

WRONG, eSATA refers to the connectors and has NOTHING to do with the I/O capability of the drive itself. One can very easily use eSATA connectors with SATA 1/SATA-150/SATA 1.5Gb/s drive as well as SATA 2/SATA-300/SATA 3.0Gb/s drive.

There was no eSATA in the 1.0a spec. The SATA II group spec includes a specification for an eSATA connector. So there is no such thing as a SATA I eSATA connector. Specifications set by the SATA II group are backwards compatible with the 1.0a spec.

You claimed there was no such thing as an SATA2 cable, but in fact an eSATA cable labeled SATAII means that it complies with the SATAII(now SATA-IO) eSATA spec.

"The first step toward a better understanding of SATA is to know that SATA II is not the brand name for SATA’s 3Gb/s data transfer rate, but the name of the organization formed to author the SATA specifications."

Again - I don't want to argue this point because the nomenclature is a mess - just make sure your connectors are 6.6mm.

xnappo

- just make sure your connectors are 6.6mm.And, of course, are Type "I" ;)

And, of course, are Type "I" ;)

:)

I don't know why these groups keep causing massive pain like this. For instance most people don't know that USB 2.0 does not in fact mean high speed USB. It is just that the USB 2.0 spec included the OPTION for high speed. It is quite possible to be USB 2.0 compliant and not high speed.

xnappo

Sorry, I gave a quick read to those links and neither said what I said was "wrong" or incorrect. And one of them did have some BS:

"Key benefits of eSATA:Up to 6 times faster than existing external storage solutions: USB 2.0, & 1394"

WRONG, eSATA refers to the connectors and has NOTHING to do with the I/O capability of the drive itself. One can very easily use eSATA connectors with SATA 1/SATA-150/SATA 1.5Gb/s drive as well as SATA 2/SATA-300/SATA 3.0Gb/s drive.
Most of us here know what they mean. It's a bit convoluted, sort of like six degrees of Kevin Bacon relationships. eSATA is an SATA II animal which introduced 3.0Gbps data rate. And *that* is "Up to 6 times faster than existing external storage solutions: USB 2.0, & 1394." :)

Most of us here know what they mean. You mean that most of the "old timers" here know. The problem is the new people get easily confused by this mess. :eek:

You mean that most of the "old timers" here know. The problem is the new people get easily confused by this mess. :eek:
Understanding imprecise and downright wrong terminology does not mean we're OK with it. But most times that I consider pointing out the incorrect terminology I think of the Robt Heinlein quote that begins with "Never try to teach a pig to sing . . . "

I wouldn't say guaranteed - but certainly much better chance than 7200.10! Sorry you didn't find us earlier...

xnappo

finally got my hands on WD5000AAKS, works like a charm! thank you! :D

Understanding imprecise and downright wrong terminology does not mean we're OK with it. But most times that I consider pointing out the incorrect terminology I think of the Robt Heinlein quote that begins with "Never try to teach a pig to sing . . . "

But don't you think it important, if not critical, for the "old timers" to "correct" statements that simply are untrue? Those kinds of statement just lead to more confusion and misunderstanding. You ARE aware that once some incorrect "fact" is posted, it elevates to "truth" the first time it's reiterated?

R_G,

That is true for sure. I still have trouble with "Trick Play", "hard" reboot, "cold" reboot, "soft" reboot, etc., because they all mean different things to different folks or have no meaning at all to some. Then along comes SATA II, eSATA, SATA, HDMI/HDCP, OCAP, DCAS, etc., and it gets even worse. Even some of us "old timers" only have a rudimentary understanding of many of these, like basic concepts vs full technical data, and that in itself can lead to misunderstandings.

But don't you think it important, if not critical, for the "old timers" to "correct" statements that simply are untrue? Those kinds of statement just lead to more confusion and misunderstanding. You ARE aware that once some incorrect "fact" is posted, it elevates to "truth" the first time it's reiterated?
I certainly do think it's important to use the correct terminology, but my fear is that we are being swamped by never-ending waves of unknowing misnomer-ists. Members here are effective - usually - at getting other members with 8300HD questions to post cableco, location, software & version in their sigs, but that's a piece of cake compared to the issue of SATA cables and connectors. He77, even we (in the broadest sense; not - necessarily :) - you and I) don't agree. I could tick off the areas of disagreement, but they've been discussed in the last page or so.

I'll take my pessimism and step aside allowing the optimistic sticklers to whack away at the problem, but crap like "Key benefits of eSATA:Up to 6 times faster than existing external storage solutions: USB 2.0, & 1394" make it a daunting task.

finally got my hands on WD5000AAKS, works like a charm! thank you! :D

Congrats, glad to help!

And thanks for the very clean database entry(usually I have to edit them to make them match the others)!

xnappo

They released that ages ago. The buffer issue only exists with Passport (not developed by SA).

Sorry, my mistake. I should've specified for Passport.

**Help**
I am having a problem 8300hd DVR box or Seagate 320gb hard drive ST3320620AS w/ AZiO ENC311SU41. Almost everytime my schedule program records it is not recording the complete program. My shows are about 60 minutes long, sometimes it records anywhere from 13 minutes to 58 minutes. At 1st i was @ 50% full, but deleted about 30%, so I am @ 20% full and I am having the same problem. I actually watched a without a trace and about 37 minutes into it stopped recording, the record light was still on and I watching the show live. I know sometimes the box reboots sometimes & recordings stop, but this is not the case. and usually when it does the it finishes the recordings once it is fully rebooted.

I have been running this setup for about 10 weeks now.

**Help**
I am having a problem 8300hd DVR box or Seagate 320gb hard drive ST3320620AS w/ AZiO ENC311SU41. Almost everytime my schedule program records it is not recording the complete program. My shows are about 60 minutes long, sometimes it records anywhere from 13 minutes to 58 minutes. At 1st i was @ 50% full, but deleted about 30%, so I am @ 20% full and I am having the same problem. I actually watched a without a trace and about 37 minutes into it stopped recording, the record light was still on and I watching the show live. I know sometimes the box reboots sometimes & recordings stop, but this is not the case. and usually when it does the it finishes the recordings once it is fully rebooted.

I have been running this setup for about 10 weeks now.

Seagate 7200.10 drives do not work well at all with the 8300. Check the database in my sig. I am surprised you don't also see glitches in the recording when recording two HD channels and playing one back? Also - I had trouble with the AZIO case as well. Are you on SARA or Passport?

xnappo

Are you on SARA or Passport?

xnappo


Thanks for your info,
I am on SARA (I am running Cablevision Suffolk county Long island, pretty much sure it is Sara).

It worked fine for the 1st 10-12 weeks of usage.

I have searched around enough that I feel comfortable asking this question.

Have the people who have tried using the WD Mybook with the 8300HD used an exteranl interface to the drive, or opened the drive case and hooked the sata drive inside directly to the 8300HD?

The internal cable came loose on a WD Mybook that I had some rather important information on. I opened it up and put the SATA cable back in place. It wasn't that hard. One screw and some plastic tangs that needed to be poked in through some slots on the end.

Anyway, I was just wondering, since I might try it in the future if other people were trying to use an external interface.

Best Regards,
Doug

**Help**
I am having a problem 8300hd DVR box or Seagate 320gb hard drive ST3320620AS w/ AZiO ENC311SU41. Almost everytime my schedule program records it is not recording the complete program. My shows are about 60 minutes long, sometimes it records anywhere from 13 minutes to 58 minutes. At 1st i was @ 50% full, but deleted about 30%, so I am @ 20% full and I am having the same problem. I actually watched a without a trace and about 37 minutes into it stopped recording, the record light was still on and I watching the show live. I know sometimes the box reboots sometimes & recordings stop, but this is not the case. and usually when it does the it finishes the recordings once it is fully rebooted.

I have been running this setup for about 10 weeks now.

I have a very similure problem to yours but in your case I would start with both the enclosure and the drive.

I've had problems with the AZIO ENC311SU31 which looks very similure to the one you have ENC311SU41. I could not get the 8300HD to recognize it at all. I keep hetting a message saying there is a problem with your external drive.

The success rate according to the database is also hit and miss with that enclosure. So it seems you may have problems on both fronts with the enclosure and the hard drive.

I started with an epower sata only enclosure and a western digital YS series 320GB drive and had the same problems as you.

I switched to the AZIO enclosure with the same drive and the 8300HD would not even recognize it as I mentioned earler.

I then switched to the Apricorn enclosure
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817362002
with the same drive and it recognized it but I still had the same amount of dropouts and some programs terminating early.

I Then upgraded the drive to a western digital 500GB drive
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822136073
and still no difference.
This combination seems to be the least problematic according to the Database found in this thread.

I still have a few problems such as droupouts and early termination of some recordings but I think is due to a problem with my 8300HD because I've tried several different hard drive and enclosure combinations and the problems still exist.

I Hope sharing my experience will help you with your problem. Good luck and keep us posted.

@XNAPPO

I still didn't forget your request to give you the Manufacture date of my 8300HD. Its in a tightly confined space so I have to do some disassembly of my home theater to get it. I try to get it to you this weekend.

I've had problems with the AZIO ENC311SU31 which looks very similure to the one you have ENC311SU41. I could not get the 8300HD to recognize it at all. I keep hetting a message saying there is a problem with your external drive.

The success rate according to the database is also hit and miss with that enclosure. So it seems you may have problems on both fronts with the enclosure and the hard drive.
Before throwing in the towel, open the enclosure and re-seat the internal data cable.

Before throwing in the towel, open the enclosure and re-seat the internal data cable.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've already tried that and it didn't work. I've actually removed it from the 8300 and now use it as an external usb drive for my mvix 760HD media control center.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've already tried that and it didn't work. I've actually removed it from the 8300 and now use it as an external usb drive for my mvix 760HD media control center.
There were a few posts about the depth of SATA plugs with pics of some that were too shallow. A possible remaining detail to check is the depth of the connectors on the internal cable. Here is the relevant xnappo post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10798134&highlight=depth#post10798134) on the issue.

So I got a 250GB Apricorn HD a couple weeks ago and it has been running great. Today the power got unplugged on the box while the cable box was still on. Now I cannot get at the shows saved on the HD although in the Diagnostics screen it shows that I have used 320 of my 360GB(of course some loss due to the format). This tells me that the HD is being recognized, but for some reason the Passport software is not seeing it. Before I try to do an fdisk using my windows PC(since I can't get the HD to show up in there either), I'd like to see if anyone has any other ideas before I lose all my shows. Thanks.

So I got a 250GB Apricorn HD a couple weeks ago and it has been running great. Today the power got unplugged on the box while the cable box was still on. Now I cannot get at the shows saved on the HD although in the Diagnostics screen it shows that I have used 320 of my 360GB(of course some loss due to the format). This tells me that the HD is being recognized, but for some reason the Passport software is not seeing it. Before I try to do an fdisk using my windows PC(since I can't get the HD to show up in there either), I'd like to see if anyone has any other ideas before I lose all my shows. Thanks.
Try turning the 8300HD off (front power button) and then remove AC from it in - pull the power cord. Then power off the external drive. Disconnect the SATA cable. Reapply AC and turn on the 8300. Ditto the (still disconnected) external drive. After everything is up to speed - and the 8300HD completely rebooted - reattach the SATA cable. Report back.

I tried this and no luck. I also, accidentally, pulled the SATA after it was connected and that gave me a message from the box asking if I wanted to reset the 8300. After answering yes, it didn't do anything different either. Any other ideas as to things to do? I've tried about every combination of removing cables and power to no avail.

Try turning the 8300HD off (front power button) and then remove AC from it in - pull the power cord. Then power off the external drive. Disconnect the SATA cable. Reapply AC and turn on the 8300. Ditto the (still disconnected) external drive. After everything is up to speed - and the 8300HD completely rebooted - reattach the SATA cable. Report back.

I tried this and no luck. I also, accidentally, pulled the SATA after it was connected and that gave me a message from the box asking if I wanted to reset the 8300. After answering yes, it didn't do anything different either. Any other ideas as to things to do? I've tried about every combination of removing cables and power to no avail.
Not sure what you mean by reset, but there's nothing else to do. :(

edit: You could try connecting an SATA cable from the 8300HD directly to the hard drive bypassing the internal cabling/circuitry.

In theory, should this unit work with my SA8300HD?

250GB Value Drive External eSATA Hard Drive
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0257901

In theory, should this unit work with my SA8300HD?

250GB Value Drive External eSATA Hard Drive
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0257901
Yes.

Of course, in theory, any eSATA drive should work with any 8300HD, and that's clearly not the case, so that's a pretty useless answer.

My suggestion? Use Xnappo's databases for SARA (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/main) and Passport (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/passport) to see what other folks are reporting success with, and pick one of those drive/enclosure combos.

If you *do* decide to venture into the unknown, please add your results--good OR bad--to Xnappo's database so others can benefit.

Actually, I did some search and buy.com carries the same drive and 1 of the 2 reviews indicated that it was purchased for an 8300HD and worked perfectly.

Pretty nice deal to bump up to a total of 50hrs HD for $53+tax after $40 rebate.

I don't see it in the database. I'm going to try to pick this unit up this afternoon and I'll note the database one way or another.

Thanks.

There were a few posts about the depth of SATA plugs with pics of some that were too shallow. A possible remaining detail to check is the depth of the connectors on the internal cable. Here is the relevant xnappo post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10798134&highlight=depth#post10798134) on the issue.

Yes I do remember reading about that. The plugs should be about half the size of a penny. and you could cut away the plug jacket to modify it. My cables were the correct ones. It seems it was the enclosure because I could use the same cable on another enclosure and it was recognized. It seems I'm getting the best results using the apricorn enclosure with the WD 500GB AAKS series HD. Its still not perfect but better. I do suspect the 8300 box so when I empty the external drive of movies I'm going to run the STB with only the internal HD and see if it clears up.

I am considering adding an external SATA drive to my 8300HD
- I have sara 1.89.16.2

Does the DVR spin down the external drive when not in use?

A while back before the software update I read that before although the SATA drives were supportd, they never spun down, and I didn't like the sound of that.

however, I am also now seeing reports that there are intermittent issues with the SATA drives not reconeccting after power failures, or simply going offline randomly...?

In theory, should this unit work with my SA8300HD?

250GB Value Drive External eSATA Hard Drive
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0257901

I got this today, but I can't get it to work.

I'm on Cablevision SARA 1.89.

One of the buy.com reviews indicated it works with the SA8300HD, so I'm hopeful, but maybe it wasn't the exact same product.

Anyhow, any ideas? I wasn't 100% which way to insert the cable into SA8300HD. Seemed to fit both ways, but when I looked at it carefully, I think I understand which way is correct based on the pins and cuts, but the way I think is right, the cable looks upside down.

Not sure what else I can check/try. Should it ask me to format is as soon as I plug in? I even tried powering the box off and letting it reset, but still nothing at all.

Yes, power is on to the eSata drive.

Any other ideas?

I got this today, but I can't get it to work.

I'm on Cablevision SARA 1.89.

One of the buy.com reviews indicated it works with the SA8300HD, so I'm hopeful, but maybe it wasn't the exact same product.

Anyhow, any ideas? I wasn't 100% which way to insert the cable into SA8300HD. Seemed to fit both ways, but when I looked at it carefully, I think I understand which way is correct based on the pins and cuts, but the way I think is right, the cable looks upside down.

Not sure what else I can check/try. Should it ask me to format is as soon as I plug in? I even tried powering the box off and letting it reset, but still nothing at all.

Yes, power is on to the eSata drive.

Any other ideas?
1. We should know what drive is inside the enclosure in order to speculate. ;)

2. The connector should only fit ONE way. It certainly only works when plugged one way. If it fits both ways, it is either:

a. the wrong connector

b. broken

c. all of the above

a. the wrong connectorThis gets my vote. :)

This gets my vote. :)

Well, it's definitely the right type of connector. Maybe there's something slightly wrong with it?

I tried reversing ends as well and pretty much same the same thing.

Not really sure what else I can try. I don't think I can find out what drive is in there or I might not be able to return it.

If my SA8300HD is on and I plug in the eSata drive, it should just ask immediately if I want to format or do I have to restart the box?

Any other thoughts?

Well, it's definitely the right type of connector. Maybe there's something slightly wrong with it?
Folks have mentioned recently on this thread that some eSATA cables have connectors that are not quite up to standards (the thinnest part that actually engages the receptacle is not long enough to make good contact with the pins inside the receptacle). This could possibly explain why you are able to insert the cable in either orientation--the cable's not actually fully seating.

You can probably examine the cable and the jack and determine whether this could be the situation in your case.

If it is, you could try to shave the thicker part of the connector down so that the thinner part could reach farther into the receptacle and make (better) contact with the pins.

Since this would physically mar the connector (and thus cause problems if you ultimately choose to return the drive), you may instead wish to go to your local electronics shop and buy an inexpensive eSATA cable that either has connectors of the right shape/size, or that you'd be willing to carve on. (Depending on your local electronic shops, you may have trouble finding an eSATA cable at any price.)

Xnappo's post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10741895&&#post10741895) has a link to pictures that illustrate both the problem and the solution.

jruhnke,

Thanks for that link. I definitely have the one with the shorter head. It's right about 1/4 of a penny, definitely not half.

Now I need to decide if I want to trim away and potentially not be able to return it or if I just want to get another eSata cable to try on.

What are some B&M stores that might carry a cheap eSata cable? (I'm in NY, so no Fry's or CompUSA anymore).

What are some B&M stores that might carry a cheap eSata cable? (I'm in NY, so no Fry's or CompUSA anymore).I live in Houston, and in my part of town, there are only two places I'd try: Fry's, and an independent electronics outlet store. Either of them would have a cable cheap enough to use as an experiment.

I don't think RadioShack, Best Buy, or Circuit City carry these cables (though individual RadioShack stores have surprised me in the past by stocking items not listed on the radioshack.com website or in the national catalog).

It's too bad you don't have a Fry's. You could order a cable from frys.com, though: http://shop1.outpost.com/product/5173976?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

jruhnke,

Thanks for that link. I definitely have the one with the shorter head. It's right about 1/4 of a penny, definitely not half.

Now I need to decide if I want to trim away and potentially not be able to return it or if I just want to get another eSata cable to try on.

What are some B&M stores that might carry a cheap eSata cable? (I'm in NY, so no Fry's or CompUSA anymore).

I think you most definitely have the wrong cable. It sounds like you have a standard sata cable. What you have to realize is that the 8300hd uses an esata cable such as this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812191017

You need to determine if your hard drive enclosure uses a regular sata connection if so you want this cable.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200092

If your enclosure is also esata then you want the cable in the first link.

Hmmm...very interesting then.

I think I see what's going on. It has a SATA connection on each end. The connection to the enclosure appears to be SATA connection. Then there's this adaptater that converts from SATA to eSATA.

I didn't realize that I was supposed to use that adapter to connect into the SA8300HD!

Take a look at this picture (click the more images link with the accessories)
http://www.buy.com/prod/Value-Drive-250GB-3-5in-eSATA-External-7200rpm-Hard-Drive/q/loc/101/203447441.html#moreimg

I think this explains what I'm looking at.

That make sense now?

I think you most definitely have the wrong cable. It sounds like you have a standard sata cable. What you have to realize is that the 8300hd uses an esata cable such as this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812191017

You need to determine if your hard drive enclosure uses a regular sata connection if so you want this cable.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200092

If your enclosure is also esata then you want the cable in the first link.

Hmmm...very interesting then.

I think I see what's going on. It has a SATA connection on each end. The connection to the enclosure appears to be SATA connection. Then there's this adaptater that converts from SATA to eSATA.

I didn't realize that I was supposed to use that adapter to connect into the SA8300HD!

Take a look at this picture (click the more images link with the accessories)
http://www.buy.com/prod/Value-Drive-250GB-3-5in-eSATA-External-7200rpm-Hard-Drive/q/loc/101/203447441.html#moreimg

I think this explains what I'm looking at.

That make sense now?

That is really goofy! So is it working now?

xnappo

That is really goofy! So is it working now?Not sure why there are 2 adapter cables and it's difficult to tell from the pictures if either is the right one for the 8300.

That is really goofy! So is it working now?

xnappo

Don't know. I'm not home. Will try around noon.

Not sure about the 2 adapter cables. I only got one with in the box I got from Microcenter. Not sure if there were supposed to be 2. If the enclosure uses the regular cable, there'd be no reason to include 2 adapters. None of the boxes were shrink wrapped, so I guess one could have easily gone missing too, but either way, I only need one.

Hopefully, now that I see that I was definitely using the wrong cable, this adapter will work.

Hmmm...very interesting then.

I think I see what's going on. It has a SATA connection on each end. The connection to the enclosure appears to be SATA connection. Then there's this adaptater that converts from SATA to eSATA.

I didn't realize that I was supposed to use that adapter to connect into the SA8300HD!

Take a look at this picture (click the more images link with the accessories)
http://www.buy.com/prod/Value-Drive-250GB-3-5in-eSATA-External-7200rpm-Hard-Drive/q/loc/101/203447441.html#moreimg

I think this explains what I'm looking at.

That make sense now?

You can use the supplied adapter but in my opinion the more connectors you use (adapters) the bigger chance things can go wrong.

This is what you need.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200092

You can find cheaper cables but remember you get what you pay for. This is a good quality shielded cable.

Because of the Apple TV product, those Apple stores carry HDMI cables. A pal got one there, said it was nicely made AND cost about 20-25 bucks, something like that.

The adapter worked fine! Afterr formatting and a reboot, I dropped from 37% full to something like 13% full.

I wish I would have figured that out last night, but thanks for everyone who clued me in to using the adapter.

I'll add this unit to that database.

$53+tax after $40 rebates for a complete 250GB unit that you just plug in is a pretty great deal.

Couple of notes on the unit. There is no fan, hopefully that won't matter too much. Also, according to the SARA screens, is a Western Digital Hard Drive inside. It is very quiet.

The adapter worked fine! Afterr formatting and a reboot, I dropped from 37% full to something like 13% full.

I wish I would have figured that out last night, but thanks for everyone who clued me in to using the adapter.

You can use the supplied adapter but in my opinion the more connectors you use (adapters) the bigger chance things can go wrong.
Glad you've succeeded! You can continue to use the adapted cable, but I strongly recommend that you take danny@cybernex.'s advice. These attached drives are a bit squirrelly sometimes and we do not want to be reading a post from you somewhere down the line that your box no longer "sees" your external drive and you've lost all of your recorded content. :)

The adapter worked fine! Afterr formatting and a reboot, I dropped from 37% full to something like 13% full.

I wish I would have figured that out last night, but thanks for everyone who clued me in to using the adapter.

I'll add this unit to that database.

$53+tax after $40 rebates for a complete 250GB unit that you just plug in is a pretty great deal.

Couple of notes on the unit. There is no fan, hopefully that won't matter too much. Also, according to the SARA screens, is a Western Digital Hard Drive inside. It is very quiet.

When you get a chance, can you please try to 'stress test' your setup by recording two HD programs and watching one of the two back delayed for ~10 minutes to confirm you don't see glitches?

Also it would be nice to know what is in the box. Can you either open it, or look at the diag screens to find the drive type? See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859&page=1) for instructions on entering diags. One of the screens displays the drive info.

Thanks,
xnappo

xnappo,

I'll do that tonight. There's nothing on that box obviously, so both recordings should record to it. I was looking for a good test before I go and send in the rebates.

It's a Western Digital drive according to the diag screens. I'll get the exact data tonight.

Because of the Apple TV product, those Apple stores carry HDMI cables. A pal got one there, said it was nicely made AND cost about 20-25 bucks, something like that.Ok, what did I miss? We're talking SATA cables, not HDMI. :)

Ok, what did I miss? We're talking SATA cables, not HDMI. :)
I've tried HDMI and they fit, too, in the eSATA port. :D

<puts away dremel>

Everything worked perfectly. I just added to your table.

Thanks!

When you get a chance, can you please try to 'stress test' your setup by recording two HD programs and watching one of the two back delayed for ~10 minutes to confirm you don't see glitches?

Also it would be nice to know what is in the box. Can you either open it, or look at the diag screens to find the drive type? See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859&page=1) for instructions on entering diags. One of the screens displays the drive info.

Thanks,
xnappo

I've tried HDMI and they fit, too, in the eSATA port. :D

<puts away dremel>

So we are saying that HDMI fits the esata port. But does it work in place of the esata cable and is it a better choice?

So are we saying that HDMI fits the esata port. But does it work in place of the esata cable and is it a better choice?
dannyv - When a poster uses the BF grin emoticon, they are riffing, otherwise known as BS'ing.

So, NO!

Wow! Guess we need to be careful with our humor here, someone might actually try some of the silly things we say. :D :) :D

BTW, I'm getting a new toy today, an Olympus E-510 dSLR with 14-42mm and 40-150mm lens kit, so I'll probably be playing with it for the next few days. I'll try to keep up with the HDMI/eSATA cable tests though. :)

Everything worked perfectly. I just added to your table.

Thanks!

Congrats! Thanks for the entry, and especially for making it pretty so I didn't have to edit it to make it match the others.

xnappo

dannyv - When a poster uses the BF grin emoticon, they are riffing, otherwise known as BS'ing.

So, NO!

I guess my next question about using a parallel printer cable is kinda moot then. :D

I guess my next question about using a parallel printer cable is kinda moot then. :D
I'm sure that, with a dremel, you could get it to fit. ;)

Oh boy, what HAVE we started? :)

I don't find much discussion of the noise made by various external disk units. (I did a forum search on noise - I didn't read all 175 pages of this forum).

The table showing how various units works does not have a noise column.

Any advice/information?

I'd like a really quiet unit with 500G for my SARA 8300. By quiet, I mean noise levels similar to that made by the 8300 - slight disk noise, quiet when the disk is spun down. I'm concerned about constant fan noise in particular.

Oh boy, what HAVE we started? :)

Oy, my senior moment for the month?

Actually, it was from having many threads in many tabs open and going to the wrong tab; the post would have made more sense if it actually happened in the thread I THOUGHT it was going into!

Looks like this is going to get easier for the general public:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/28/wd-my-library-drives-aimed-at-dvr-owners/

A little, maybe. This is not going to change the cableco's position on (NOT) supporting external drives. They will still reply with misinformation/disinformation when asked about it by subscribers.

Just my $.02.