RE: MR not being widely adopted by cable. First, I think that it will be coming. But right now cable has a lot of "irons in the fire" and I think that MR is on the "back burner". Other stuff includes "triple and quad" play, expanded capacity for HD, ban on integrated security and OCAP. As this MR stuff requires unique software, and as software is being reworked for OCAP, I would think that we may see MR deployed after OCAP based software is worked out.

With Passport, adding an external drive "breaks" what many refer to as "trick play" features when watching live TV. Recorded content playback functions normally.BBut you don't loose anything if you have SARA :), (or Navigator - though you loose in many other ways with Navigator).:rolleyes:

With Passport, adding an external drive "breaks" what many refer to as "trick play" features when watching live TV. Recorded content playback functions normally.
Added note: lost features when recording is being doen to external HD only since buffers on internal drive. You cannot control the drive, it takes the one with most space.
Dan

BBut you don't loose anything if you have SARA :), (or Navigator - though you loose in many other ways with Navigator).:rolleyes:
<owww> You are cru-el.:)

RE: MR not being widely adopted by cable. First, I think that it will be coming. But right now cable has a lot of "irons in the fire" and I think that MR is on the "back burner". Other stuff includes "triple and quad" play
What's the 4th? Video services, telephone, broadband internet and ???

What's the 4th? Video services, telephone, broadband internet and ???Cell Phones! (It's all about marketing!)

Cell Phones! (It's all about marketing!)
Oh, man, at any point does this use their network, or are they just another reseller? :)

Oh, man, at any point does this use their network, or are they just another reseller? :)I believe that they are a reseller (Sprint is one). It must be that some folks think it is important to only have one bill (to me, it's the total cost that is important).

BBut you don't loose anything if you have SARA :), (or Navigator - though you loose in many other ways with Navigator).:rolleyes:
So Dave you're saying that with an external drive on an 8300HD DVR running SARA software, that you DO NOT lose the "trick play" features? (when the DVR is caching to the ext. drive, that is.)

Thanks,
Cactus

So Dave you're saying that with an external drive on an 8300HD DVR running SARA software, that you DO NOT lose the "trick play" features? (when the DVR is caching to the ext. drive, that is.)

Thanks,
CactusYES - ABSOLUTELY. With SARA, the only observable difference with an external drive is much larger storage capacity (assuming you select the right drive). BTW I've had mine for 2 1/2 years now.

YES - ABSOLUTELY. With SARA, the only observable difference with an external drive is much larger storage capacity (assuming you select the right drive). BTW I've had mine for 2 1/2 years now.
I was in the home theater last night scrolling through the movies I have on my DVR and the "oldest" has been there about 26 months. :)

FYI - I added a new database for Navigator...

xnappo

FYI - I added a new database for Navigator...

xnappo
Do we know how extensively this has been deployed?

Do we know how extensively this has been deployed?

Maybe Dave H has a better tally - but I think like 4 or 5 markets? In some they are only deploying Navigator with 8300HDCs and leaving Passport on the standard boxes.

Here is the Navigator thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830

xnappo

Maybe Dave H has a better tally - but I think like 4 or 5 markets? In some they are only deploying Navigator with 8300HDCs and leaving Passport on the standard boxes.

Here is the Navigator thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830

xnappoSorry, I don't have any better tally on Navigator than the thread that Xnappo linked. BUT, I do have one observation: it appears that all Passport TW divisions are using Navigator for any new cable box deployments since 7/1/07. So there are bits and pieces of Navigator showing up in lots of places (NYC being one).

I'm safely (and happily) in SARA territory. :D

Sorry, I don't have any better tally on Navigator than the thread that Xnappo linked. BUT, I do have one observation: it appears that all Passport TW divisions are using Navigator for any new cable box deployments since 7/1/07. So there are bits and pieces of Navigator showing up in lots of places (NYC being one).

I'm safely (and happily) in SARA territory. :D
Have you heard any talk of Comcast's DVR/software plans?

Have you heard any talk of Comcast's DVR/software plans?You mean their plan to offer TiVo software? That keeps being delayed (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Still-Waiting-on-Comcast-TiVo-87141). Or what they are doing with SA8300HDC boxes? (I don't know).

(Hey I don't know everything - I only have certain areas that I watch. Sorry)

You mean their plan to offer TiVo software? That keeps being delayed. Or what they are doing with SA8300HDC boxes? (I don't know).

(Hey I don't know everything - I only have certain areas that I watch. Sorry)
I'd be happy if they just forgot about me for two years until I had my favs on hi-def optical at which point they could swap out my 8300HD for something else.

Just installed the western digital DVR expander - 500gig drive in a fan free enclosure, "designed" to work with the 8300HD. Only glitch was that after restart and saying yes to the format request, the drive was seen (in diag) but there was no free space. A reboot fixed that. Can't report yet on how well it works.

AFAIK this is only available from western digital right now, at $199. And its often shown as out of stock.

I plan to buy one this week. How is your's running so far? Did you perform pepar's "stress test"?

Thanks,
Harold

MyBook and 8300HD:

Well I got my reply from Western Digital support, concerning the MY Book not working with the 8300HD:

Dear Roger,

Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support.

I apologize but I am unable to help you because this is a system issue that is outside the range of Western Digital’s standard support. Please contact the system vendor for assistance.
---



Not only a "buzz off," but a cryptic one at that. A "system" issue? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot does that mean? :confused:

Well they market a drive just for DRVs now, so they would just steer me there I guess, and see no need to support that use of the other drive.

Of course this drive, though it lacking the USB interface, lists for the same.

This is interesting:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=351824
rsnyder6 - take a close look at your cable.

xnappo

Thanks. My cable looks like a good one.

I think it is the drive. I haven't found one person who has gotten it to work.

Next I'm trying to figure how to get it apart gracefully.

I have searched around enough that I feel comfortable asking this question.

Have the people who have tried using the WD Mybook with the 8300HD used an exteranl interface to the drive, or opened the drive case and hooked the sata drive inside directly to the 8300HD?

I tried the external interface. I have instructions to get into the older My Book drives, but they seem to have changed how you open them.


The internal cable came loose on a WD Mybook that I had some rather important information on. I opened it up and put the SATA cable back in place.

You have a My Book™ Premium ES Edition? How to you get in?

Sorry if this has been asked but i've searched through almost 175 pages of threads and couldnt find a definite answer.

I just bought a WD My Book 500gb eSATA drive. It has both USB&eSATA connections.
Will this work on my Comcast (Sara) 8300HD box?

Thanks.

I can't find anyone who has got it to work.

We understand not reading 175 pages of posts, but ALWAYS read the first post of a thread thoroughly before asking questions on AVS.

See the databases in my sig(or at the very TOP of the first post :) ) - so far two people have tried a MyBook and it did not work.

Note that WD is coming out with a new line called 'My Library' specifically for DVR applications.

xnappo

I can't get it to work, but I figure two "not working" and no "working" in you database was enough.

I am trying to find out what software is running on my SA 8300 HD DVR.

I am on the 3rd diagnostics screen and I see.

Software Versions

PTV OS:OS, Home Server Edition 1.10
FLASH: DVR1.5.2_8300_DOC.DC.LR_F.p.1202
App(s):GpiClient v3.0.7.2273
bodclient v3.0.1


On another screen I see mention of SARA so I assume I am running SARA. But, what version?

I am having issues with HDMI output. Heard it might be addressed in a firmware release but, all the numbers I see posted about aren't even close to what I see above.

I am using Cablevision in Westchester, NY. The box I got winter this year and I believe it had a date stamp on it some time in early 2007. The box was not new though.

Thanks,
Jim

Need help. I unplugged my 8300HD. I then plugged in my external Hd (Calvary 250GB 3.5" 7200RPM eSata + USB 2.0 ). I plugged in the eSata cable to both units. I turned on the external Hd, then plugged in the 8300. BOOT came up on the PVR then after like 5 min. the time came up. I tried a few times, even swapped the cable around though it has the same plug-in on each end. No format screen. Any suggestions? Maybe the eSata port on the 8300HD/PVR is not active? I'm running SARA 1.89.17.1. Thanks

Need help. I unplugged my 8300HD. I then plugged in my external Hd (Calvary 250GB 3.5" 7200RPM eSata + USB 2.0 ). I plugged in the eSata cable to both units. I turned on the external Hd, then plugged in the 8300. BOOT came up on the PVR then after like 5 min. the time came up. I tried a few times, even swapped the cable around though it has the same plug-in on each end. No format screen. Any suggestions? Maybe the eSata port on the 8300HD/PVR is not active? I'm running SARA 1.89.17.1. ThanksSARA 1.89.17.1 DEFINITELY work just fine with the external drive. I suspect that your problem is that the drive that you have is a combo USB unit, and that may be causing your problem. I also note that this drive enclosure is not on Xnappo's database.

SARA 1.89.17.1 DEFINITELY work just fine with the external drive. I suspect that your problem is that the drive that you have is a combo USB unit, and that may be causing your problem. I also note that this drive enclosure is not on Xnappo's database.

it is a combo Usb drive. Does that mean I'm S.O.L.?

You have a My Book™ Premium ES Edition? How to you get in?

I am not sure which version it is, but it is a 160 Gig drive purchased at Best Buy for about $90 sometime around last Christmas.

Just went out to get it from the car... It appears to be just a standard Mybook.

There is one screw under a sticker and then some tabs in the slots on the ends that need to be pressed in. Don't remember anything else, but there may have been a tab or two somewhere else...

If I get another drive to copy the files to, I might give the SATA connection a try. It is a lot of money to spend on something that is very unlikely to work, though.

Best Regards,
Doug

it is a combo Usb drive. Does that mean I'm S.O.L.?No, as I said in my PM, you might try to disconnect the internal interface and connect the drive directly to the DVR.

No, as I said in my PM, you might try to disconnect the internal interface and connect the drive directly to the DVR.

Yeah, I agree. eSATA is enabled everywhere that anyone has tried it. There was ONE person who did actually have a bad box, but bad cables/cases seem to be the main cause, followed by Seagate 7200.10 drives.

I would try hacking the box to connect the drive IO directly to the SA8300. If this works then pick up an Apricorn case.

Note that not all cases with USB and eSATA cause problems. It is in fact very hard to find an eSATA only case.

xnappo

I've had success with a Rosewill case (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817173043), eSATA / USB with a switchable fan. eSATA cable that's included with the case worked for me. I matched this with a SAMSUNG SpinPoint 500GB.

I added a 750GB HD w/Antec eSata case, works great, took 3 times to be able to "format" it after being 'seen', by unplugging, rebooting, etc., but eventually it all was seen and worked.

However:

It seems that over the last few weeks that TNT programming being recorded on the PCR/SA 8300HD has recording times chopped to less than the programming times that are supposed to be.

Anywhere from 1 minute for a 1 hr. recording to 24 min, as an example. This is odd.

Does anyone else have this issue, know why it is occurring?

No other channel(s) are exhibiting these weird recording times on the PVR, only TNT........

I recently added a 750 GB external HD via SATA cable to extend my recording time/capacity, but I can say I have absolute 99.9% perfection with the exception of this issue, and would like to know if anyone else has the problem with or without the additional capacity......

Would this have anything to do with my adding of the new 750GB HD?

If so, why ONLY TNT, as all other recording are A-OK...or does the vroadcast have a problem.

Just observations, looking for additional experiences, etc.

I added a 750GB HD w/Antec eSata case, works great, took 3 times to be able to "format" it after being 'seen', by unplugging, rebooting, etc., but eventually it all was seen and worked.

However:

It seems that over the last few weeks that TNT programming being recorded on the PCR/SA 8300HD has recording times chopped to less than the programming times that are supposed to be.

Anywhere from 1 minute for a 1 hr. recording to 24 min, as an example. This is odd.

Does anyone else have this issue, know why it is occurring?

No other channel(s) are exhibiting these weird recording times on the PVR, only TNT........

I recently added a 750 GB external HD via SATA cable to extend my recording time/capacity, but I can say I have absolute 99.9% perfection with the exception of this issue, and would like to know if anyone else has the problem with or without the additional capacity......

Would this have anything to do with my adding of the new 750GB HD?

If so, why ONLY TNT, as all other recording are A-OK...or does the vroadcast have a problem.

Just observations, looking for additional experiences, etc.Software (SARA or Passport) and version? That sounds a bit like an old SARA problem (that has since been fixed.

I have the 8300HD unit from Comcast.

I was thinking about adding the external SATA drive and all but got worried about those cheap adapters that come with these external enclosures. Considering that the enclosure has to stay on at all times ... I don't want some ugly fire at home when I am out. (I have read news stories about fires caused by cheap (chinese?) AC adapters).

So ... I am thinking about upgrading the internal drive itself. Perhaps get a 500GB drive as a replacement. I know I will have to get a Torx screwdriver to open the case and all ... but the main question I have for now is - are the internal drives SATA or ATA ? Should I get a 5400 rpm or 7200 rpm drive (heat issues ?).

Can I just replace with a blank new drive and expect the ROM O/S to do its magic ?

Max

I have the 8300HD unit from Comcast.

I was thinking about adding the external SATA drive and all but got worried about those cheap adapters that come with these external enclosures. Considering that the enclosure has to stay on at all times ... I don't want some ugly fire at home when I am out. (I have read news stories about fires caused by cheap (chinese?) AC adapters).

So ... I am thinking about upgrading the internal drive itself. Perhaps get a 500GB drive as a replacement. I know I will have to get a Torx screwdriver to open the case and all ... but the main question I have for now is - are the internal drives SATA or ATA ? Should I get a 5400 rpm or 7200 rpm drive (heat issues ?).

Can I just replace with a blank new drive and expect the ROM O/S to do its magic ?

Max

Hi Max,
I have a 8300HD from TW in New York and have an external SATA that works but I lose the trick play features because I have the Passport software. So I drove me nuts enough to finally open my box one day and remove the internal drive (which is PATA, not SATA) and try and upgrade it. As a test I added an old PATA 200gb I had lying around (7200rpm) and plugged it in and let it do it's thing for a good hour or so, then all of a sudden the start screen showed up, after a few reboots, I got cable working and thought I was home free but unfortunately their was a problem. It could npt record shows, it acted as if it was recording the red light would go on but nothing would play back. I remember I kept seeing a screen that would list tests and under drive, it would say failure, or something like that.
So I don't know if it was just my drive, or the fact that it wasn't formatted a certain way? Or that it was the Passport software itself, as I read others didn't have sucess with the passport but did with SARA.
So i gave up, never bought the 500gb I was planning to put in there, and closed it all back up and have been using it without any external HD since the fall season hasn't started yet and I don't need that much recording space just yet.
Maybe when they update my box to Navigator then my external will work with it?
As far as worrying about fires from external plug in power supplies, Gee I sure hope they are safe, i have about 12 plugged in throughout my home, for various gadgets! I would think they would just burn out internally before actually starting a fire from the basic design. I hope so, anyway.

When removing your internal drive remember to wear gloves so you don't touch the sticker they place on the drive which changes color from the acid on your skin. That is the way they can tell if the drive was tampered with.

Good Luck if you try, let us know how it goes!
AnthonyNYC

I have the 8300HD unit from Comcast.

I was thinking about adding the external SATA drive and all but got worried about those cheap adapters that come with these external enclosures. Considering that the enclosure has to stay on at all times ... I don't want some ugly fire at home when I am out. (I have read news stories about fires caused by cheap (chinese?) AC adapters).

So ... I am thinking about upgrading the internal drive itself. Perhaps get a 500GB drive as a replacement. I know I will have to get a Torx screwdriver to open the case and all ... but the main question I have for now is - are the internal drives SATA or ATA ? Should I get a 5400 rpm or 7200 rpm drive (heat issues ?).

Can I just replace with a blank new drive and expect the ROM O/S to do its magic ?

Max

You may want to reconsider replacing your internal drive. This question has been posed in this forum on many occasions. The success rate is not very good and it may not be worth all the effort it will take.

You mention using a cheap adapter which may catch fire. So I would stay away from the cheap adapters and use whats recommended in the database for your 8300's operating system (SARA or PASSPORT) which you can find a link to in post 1 of this thread. Its really a very simple process once you have the proper equipment. By using whats recommended you really don't need to worry about the drive catching on fire. I've used the epower external enclosure for years and its been nothing but reliable. I've also used the apricorn enclosure for several months and it runs very cool and I don't antisapate having problems with it.

I added a 750GB HD w/Antec eSata case, works great, took 3 times to be able to "format" it after being 'seen', by unplugging, rebooting, etc., but eventually it all was seen and worked.

However:

It seems that over the last few weeks that TNT programming being recorded on the PCR/SA 8300HD has recording times chopped to less than the programming times that are supposed to be.

Anywhere from 1 minute for a 1 hr. recording to 24 min, as an example. This is odd.

Does anyone else have this issue, know why it is occurring?

No other channel(s) are exhibiting these weird recording times on the PVR, only TNT........

I recently added a 750 GB external HD via SATA cable to extend my recording time/capacity, but I can say I have absolute 99.9% perfection with the exception of this issue, and would like to know if anyone else has the problem with or without the additional capacity......

Would this have anything to do with my adding of the new 750GB HD?

If so, why ONLY TNT, as all other recording are A-OK...or does the vroadcast have a problem.

Just observations, looking for additional experiences, etc.

I had the same exact problem you did and after trying many hard drives and enclosures I wound up replacing my 8300HD and I have not had a problem now in about 2 months.

Thanks for the info.

I decided to go with an external unit ... here is what I ordered moments ago from Newegg.

Western Digital WD5000AAKS (500GB) SATA drive

Rosewill RX-358 enclosure (incl. sata cable).

Total $149.00 w/ free shipping.

Not bad.

Now I can record all those Food Network HD shows ... ;)

Thanks for the info.

I decided to go with an external unit ... here is what I ordered moments ago from Newegg.

Western Digital WD5000AAKS (500GB) SATA drive

Rosewill RX-358 enclosure (incl. sata cable).

Total $149.00 w/ free shipping.

Not bad.

Now I can record all those Food Network HD shows ... ;)

Did you make sure that the rosewell works with your 8300HD operating system (SARA or PASSPORT> ? As you did not mention which operating system you are using the only info I can give is according to the database rosewell seems to work with passport but not SARA.

I can't help but think that the apricorn case may be a better choice http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817362002. Its the same price and seems compatable with both systems.

The WD drive is a good selection.

Software (SARA or Passport) and version? That sounds a bit like an old SARA problem (that has since been fixed.
It is SARA 1.89.20.1
I'm believing that I'll need to exchange the box?
If so, any advantages/disadvantages to the 'newer' replacements?
I'm also sure I'll lose my recordings, so I guess now is better before the new season.
Sure wish there was a way to dump 'em.

It is SARA 1.89.20.1
I'm believing that I'll need to exchange the box?
If so, any advantages/disadvantages to the 'newer' replacements?
I'm also sure I'll lose my recordings, so I guess now is better before the new season.
Sure wish there was a way to dump 'em.
"That sounds a bit like an old SARA problem (that has since been fixed"

By being 'fixed', meaning newer version of SARA?
How does one update that firmware, or request it from Cablevision?

It is SARA 1.89.20.1
I'm believing that I'll need to exchange the box?
If so, any advantages/disadvantages to the 'newer' replacements?
I'm also sure I'll lose my recordings, so I guess now is better before the new season.
Sure wish there was a way to dump 'em.You realize, don't you, that the contents on the external drive will also be lost if you switch boxes?

I suspect that switching boxes will not fix the problem. Before you do that, make sure that you do a hard reboot* (some have had some success with that).

New boxes will be SA8300HD. Same as current box, but with CableCard instead of integrated security. That will have a new version of SARA (1.90.xxs.xx). No functional difference from current box, but software change may fix things. TW customers in Passport systems have it rough though - TW puts the dreaded Navigator on these boxes. But you are safe.

*Hard Reboot: Unplug power from DVR for 30 sec - 1 minute. WHILE HOLDING IN FRONT PANEL POWER BUTTON, plug power back in. Keep holding POWER in until "boot" appears on front panel. Unit should be ready to go in about 5 minutes. The "official" directions for this call for unplugging the external drive too, but I have found that really makes no difference - so I just leave it plugged in and powered up through the process.

It is SARA 1.89.20.1
I'm believing that I'll need to exchange the box?
If so, any advantages/disadvantages to the 'newer' replacements?
I'm also sure I'll lose my recordings, so I guess now is better before the new season.
Sure wish there was a way to dump 'em.If you are using SARA and have a VCR or DVD recorder, you can "dump 'em" in SD using the Copy To VCR option, assuming there is something you really want to view.

If you are having a problem with only one channel (TNT-HD), I'd suspect something other than the box. From what I recall, quite a few Cablevison subs have had similar problems over the years, though I don't specifically recall them being with only 1 channel.

You might want to do some checking on signal levels, etc., before swapping the box and losing "all" your recordings. You also might want to disconnect the SATA drive temporarily to see if TNT then behaves correctly. The Other Dave has already suggested a "hard" reboot, so I don't know of anything else to try. If nothing else works, then a new box is the only thing left to try.

Dannyv .. I have SARA version on the DVR. I am a little lost as to why a firmware would be partial to any specific enclosure.

I will keep your comments in mind if the thing shows up and does not work.

Thanks.

Max

Dannyv .. I have SARA version on the DVR. I am a little lost as to why a firmware would be partial to any specific enclosure.

I will keep your comments in mind if the thing shows up and does not work.

Thanks.

Max
I think people misunderstood when you said exchange the box, you meant the eSATA enclosure that you ordered from Newegg, not the cable box itself, correct?
I think a few posts where refering to you exchanging the cable box for a different version of SARA.
:)
AnthonyNYC

I think people misunderstood when you said exchange the box, you meant the eSATA enclosure that you ordered from Newegg, not the cable box itself, correct?
I think a few posts where refering to you exchanging the cable box for a different version of SARA.
:)
AnthonyNYC
oops! 2 different topics going on at once, i think...sorry
:)

I can't help but think that the apricorn case may be a better choice http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817362002. Its the same price and seems compatable with both systems.

The WD drive is a good selection.
dannyv - The description for the enclosure in your link says it's "USB 2.0 & eSATA" but the picture of the back of the unit shows ONLY an SATA port. Does it actually have a USB 2.0 port?

Thanks,
Cactus

*Hard Reboot: Unplug power from DVR for 30 sec - 1 minute. WHILE HOLDING IN FRONT PANEL POWER BUTTON, plug power back in. Keep holding POWER in until "boot" appears on front panel. Unit should be ready to go in about 5 minutes. The "official" directions for this call for unplugging the external drive too, but I have found that really makes no difference - so I just leave it plugged in and powered up through the process.

Hmm, that sounds like a combo of hard and soft booting... maybe call it "Dave's Diamond Boot."

New boxes will be SA8300HD. Same as current box, but with CableCard instead of integrated security.

I do believe the hardware you refer to is a 8300HDC. See, you CAN hit the wrong keys <g>!

dannyv - The description for the enclosure in your link says it's "USB 2.0 & eSATA" but the picture of the back of the unit shows ONLY an SATA port. Does it actually have a USB 2.0 port?

Thanks,
Cactus

The actual enclosure is esata & USB 2.0. The picture is wrong. The picture is from a previous model which I don't beleive they manufacture any more.

dannyv - Thanks very much! Enclosure and drive on order!

Cactus

I do believe the hardware you refer to is a 8300HDC. See, you CAN hit the wrong keys <g>!Close, but no cigar:rolleyes: just didn't hit the "C" key (after 8300HD). ;)

The Rosewill RX-358 works with SARA. I installed it and it looks to be a better choice than the apricorn. The Rosewill has a very quiet fan (switchable), and the eSATA cable that's included with the case will work.


Did you make sure that the rosewell works with your 8300HD operating system (SARA or PASSPORT> ? As you did not mention which operating system you are using the only info I can give is according to the database rosewell seems to work with passport but not SARA.

I can't help but think that the apricorn case may be a better choice. Its the same price and seems compatable with both systems.

First post in this thread.

Can anyone recommend a "plug and play" external drive into my Sa8300?Running SARA.

Looking for the easiest solution (minimum assembly and quite proven by other users)

I have a Maxtor 6V300F0 but do not know how to get it to work (did a search on this entire thread but did not find any info):( (What might I need?) (I do not mind getting rid of this and just getting a new external drive that will WORK)

Any recommendations appreciated.

The Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT seems to be a good choice.

Check Xnappo's Database here (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/main)

First post in this thread.

Can anyone recommend a "plug and play" external drive into my Sa8300?Running SARA.

Looking for the easiest solution (minimum assembly and quite proven by other users)

I have a Maxtor 6V300F0 but do not know how to get it to work (did a search on this entire thread but did not find any info):( (What might I need?) (I do not mind getting rid of this and just getting a new external drive that will WORK)

Any recommendations appreciated.

I just bought a WD "My DVR Expander" 500GB for about $220 w/2 day shipping. Should get it Mon. A bit more expensive than build-your-own, but I've read good things about it, there's no hassle, and it's guaranteed to work.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=334&language=en

Harold

The 2 available plug -n- plays are the Western Digital My DVR Expander (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=334) and the Maxtor QVX Expander PLUS (http://www.weaknees.com/maxtor-quickview-expander-qvx.php) at weaknees. If you want to save a few $, then you can build your own with minimum fuss with a Rosewill RX-358 (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817173043) (This enclosure has a very quiet fan and an eSATA cable will work) and your choice drive (I went with a SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822152052))



First post in this thread.

Can anyone recommend a "plug and play" external drive into my Sa8300?Running SARA.

Looking for the easiest solution (minimum assembly and quite proven by other users)

I have a Maxtor 6V300F0 but do not know how to get it to work (did a search on this entire thread but did not find any info):( (What might I need?) (I do not mind getting rid of this and just getting a new external drive that will WORK)

Any recommendations appreciated.

I just bought a WD "My DVR Expander" 500GB for about $220 w/2 day shipping. Should get it Mon. A bit more expensive than build-your-own, but I've read good things about it, there's no hassle, and it's guaranteed to work.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=334&language=en

Harold

I recently got one. One of its features is a fan free enclosure which, since it's from the disk manufacturer, is hopefully adequate for the disk.

I did notice that drive does not spin down - it's apparently jumpered for automatic spin up. It's essentially inaudible unless you put your ear to it, as least in my set up.

Does anyone know if the external interface works with disk jumpered for system controlled spin up?

The Rosewill RX-358 works with SARA. I installed it and it looks to be a better choice than the apricorn. The Rosewill has a very quiet fan (switchable), and the eSATA cable that's included with the case will work.

That is good news. Please be sure to enter your results in xnappos database.
The link can be found on post #1 in this thread.

Well, the SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ is acting-up. I'm getting a glitch about every 30 minutes. I'm going to return the drive and try the Seagate DB35.

Well, the SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ is acting-up. I'm getting a glitch about every 30 minutes. I'm going to return the drive and try the Seagate DB35.


I since disconnected my external drive till the fall line up starts, and I was just watching tv and got a glitch once about every 10 minutes, so glitches can happen intermitently, according to channel, according to the direction of the wind, etc... I wouldn't be so quick to blame the drive just yet.
Unless, you disconnect it and notice zero glitches for a few days then see glitches again when you connect.
Just a thought, cause I think glitches are a part of life now a days and come and go often.
AnthonyNYC

Got my parts today. The case is very solid in built .. all aluminum. The 80mm fan is a nice feature.

The drive is VERY QQQQUIET !

The SATA cable that came with the enclosure worked like a charm with the 8300HD.

Since this setup is for my bedroom ... and the 8300 HD is tucked into a rack ... I decided to use the enclosure without the top lid on ... and with the fan OFF ... call it AIR-COOLED !

All said, it works.

BTW ... see my next post about an unrelated Question.

Thanks for the info.

I decided to go with an external unit ... here is what I ordered moments ago from Newegg.

Western Digital WD5000AAKS (500GB) SATA drive

Rosewill RX-358 enclosure (incl. sata cable).

Total $149.00 w/ free shipping.

Not bad.

Now I can record all those Food Network HD shows ... ;)

I plugged my external drive in ... plugged the 8300HD back up. It found the drive ... I pressed A on the remote to OK the format. The current channel video was displayed. No visual sign of a format taking place. I gave it 2 minutes ... saw no activity on the external hard drive. Figuring I had messed up ... cycled power to the DVR ... it displayed a message your ext. hard drive is ready for use ... I did a test recording and saw the activity led on the ext. hard drive start flickering ... also confirmed I had gobs of new free space !

That quick for a 500GB drive ? BTW ... this is not a used or refurb drive .. its a sealed drive from Newegg.

Max

That quick for a 500GB drive ? BTW ... this is not a used or refurb drive .. its a sealed drive from Newegg.

Max

Yep, this is normal. Obviously it just sets up a file table and doesn't actually initialize all the storage space to 0...

xnappo

Yep, this is normal. Obviously it just sets up a file table and doesn't actually initialize all the storage space to 0...

xnappo
Indeed, it takes seconds to "format" a 500GB drive. This picture (http://peparsplace.com/assets/images/Ext_SATA_022.jpg) shows an elapsed time of :44 to do mine. And some of that might have been me fumbling with the buttons as this was the first time I performed the operation.

Just connected my WD "Expander" w/no problems. Went from 82% full to 20%. Kewl. It'll be great not having to worry about HD recording space anymore.

Harold

I since disconnected my external drive till the fall line up starts, and I was just watching tv and got a glitch once about every 10 minutes, so glitches can happen intermitently, according to channel, according to the direction of the wind, etc... I wouldn't be so quick to blame the drive just yet.
Unless, you disconnect it and notice zero glitches for a few days then see glitches again when you connect.
Just a thought, cause I think glitches are a part of life now a days and come and go often.
AnthonyNYC

Just keep in mind that glitches like this are NOT necessarily a part of using an external drive. I and at least 2 other close friends do NOT have external drives and certainly DO get the glitching. It was god awful right after ESPN2 HD was added, but has gradually gotten better, but still happens. Scott B., ever the sleuth, has managed to ascertain that they ARE lowering bandwidth; recordings now take up less disk space than they used to pretty much indicating bit rate/bandwidth is reduction.

I DO realize MANY think this kind of artifacts is "caused" by the use of certain specific hard drives, but as long as users have the same issue without external drives, I for one would not come to the conclusion the fault lies with external drives.

Just keep in mind that glitches like this are NOT necessarily a part of using an external drive. I and at least 2 other close friends do NOT have external drives and certainly DO get the glitching. It was god awful right after ESPN2 HD was added, but has gradually gotten better, but still happens. Scott B., ever the sleuth, has managed to ascertain that they ARE lowering bandwidth; recordings now take up less disk space than they used to pretty much indicating bit rate/bandwidth is reduction.

I DO realize MANY think this kind of artifacts is "caused" by the use of certain specific hard drives, but as long as users have the same issue without external drives, I for one would not come to the conclusion the fault lies with external drives.
Exactly! This was my point. About them lowering bandwidth, did you mean they are changing the recording quality, so it uses less space on the hard drive? In one way, that would be good for giving us more room but would also lower our viewing pleasure (quality).
:)

Exactly! This was my point. About them lowering bandwidth, did you mean they are changing the recording quality, so it uses less space on the hard drive? In one way, that would be good for giving us more room but would also lower our viewing pleasure (quality).
:)

At least here in NYC, they have squeezed *some of* the channels so that more of them are sharing the same bandwidth. It does seem to lead to smaller files on our DVRs for those that are affected. I can sense the bandwidth starvation during action scenes and sometimes during scene changes in movies.

[Note that there are others that do seem to still run at full bandwidth].

The funny thing is that the DVR estimates that it needs ~6 Gig of space per hour of HD content, so if you're like me and the drives are nearly always full and you set all of your programs to "Save until manually erased", Passport will refuse to record certain programs, saying there is not enough space on the drive, when actually there is more than enough.

Oh well......

Just keep in mind that glitches like this are NOT necessarily a part of using an external drive.
Though in my own experience, the physical drive can contribute greatly to glitching.

I've got 2 drives now, that I've swapped in and out into the same external housing, power supply, cables, etc., and the first one that I bought (Seagate Barracuda) seemingly couldn't go longer than 10-15 minutes w/o a glitch. Nowadays with my newer Western Digital I get FAR less glitching (once or twice an hour).

Go figure.

I DO realize MANY think this kind of artifacts is "caused" by the use of certain specific hard drives, but as long as users have the same issue without external drives, I for one would not come to the conclusion the fault lies with external drives.

So because some people who don't smoke get lung cancer, cigarettes don't cause cancer? :rolleyes:

One *should* make sure that they do not get glitches without the external drive, however from the experience of many here (you know who actually HAVE an external drive? :P ) it definitely can cause glitches.

xnappo

Just keep in mind that glitches like this are NOT necessarily a part of using an external drive.

Riverside_Guy you are absolutly correct.

I had a very bad glitching problem with glitching every 5-10 minutes and even programs that stopped recording early. I switched cables went through 3 enclosures and 3 hard drives. None of which made a difference. I had the cable company out to check bandwidth and they said I had pleanty of bandwidth and a very strong signal. I finally went to the cable company and replaced the 8300HD and had perfect records ever since. Now 80% of the shows I record are perfect with the remaining 20% having maybe 1 very slight glitch in the entire program. I attribute this glitch to be when recording 2 HD programs while watching a pre-recorded HD program. So if you tried everything then exchanging the box may just solve the problem. You really want to check cables and swap out hard drives and enclosures if you can and have the cable company check your bandwidth and as a last resort change the Box.

Scott B., ever the sleuth, has managed to ascertain that they ARE lowering bandwidth; recordings now take up less disk space than they used to pretty much indicating bit rate/bandwidth is reduction.There is no doubt "some" cableco's rate-shape, but let's not forget that many channels don't use the full bitrate to begin with and some local channels multicast 1 or more SD channels along with their HD channel and they do it on an "as needed" basis. New equipment being used, particularly for multicasting, can allocate bandwidth on the fly with little or no impact on the end result. While many "sleuths" can see reductions in bitrates, they often can't readily ascertain the specific reason or impact.

Let's also not forget that some channels (locals) have switched from 1080i to 720p and 720p requires less bitrate. And many channels provide different ritrates depending on what is being broadcast. Movies, in particular, vary greatly. The only way to know for sure that a given cableco/channel has decereased the bitrate is to verify that someone else broadcast the same content at a higher bitrate. even then, I'm not sure that actually "proves" anything. :)

There is no doubt "some" cableco's rate-shape, but let's not forget that many channels don't use the full bitrate to begin with and some local channels multicast 1 or more SD channels along with their HD channel and they do it on an "as needed" basis. New equipment being used, particularly for multicasting, can allocate bandwidth on the fly with little or no impact on the end result. While many "sleuths" can see reductions in bitrates, they often can't readily ascertain the specific reason or impact.

Let's also not forget that some channels (locals) have switched from 1080i to 720p and 720p requires less bitrate. And many channels provide different ritrates depending on what is being broadcast. Movies, in particular, vary greatly. The only way to know for sure that a given cableco/channel has decereased the bitrate is to verify that someone else broadcast the same content at a higher bitrate. even then, I'm not sure that actually "proves" anything. :)
This is true, but just based on my own observation on my local system, the movies that I tape from HBO, Cinemax, HDNet Movies, and UHD all seem to take up a fraction of what they were taking up before TWC-NYC added a few new HD channels to a system that they had long claimed to be "out of bandwidth for new channels".

On the other hand, some of the other channels seem to be almost exactly the same as before (networks, Showtime).

All based upon my own personal observation.

This is true, but just based on my own observation on my local system, the movies that I tape from HBO, Cinemax, HDNet Movies, and UHD all seem to take up a fraction of what they were taking up before TWC-NYC added a few new HD channels to a system that they had long claimed to be "out of bandwidth for new channels".

On the other hand, some of the other channels seem to be almost exactly the same as before (networks, Showtime).

All based upon my own personal observation.Not trying to throw any stones here, but I don't know what you consider a "fraction". I also don't know what the general difference in file size is between something at 18MBps and something else at 15MBps, but "fraction" seems a bit strong. :)

Anyway, one way to check some of this is to go through and identify the QAM frequency being used for each channel to see how many are being assigned to a given frequency (a tedious process). If TWC-NYC is 'stuffing" more that 2 HD channels (or 1 HD and more than 8-10 SD channels) into a single frequency, then they are degrading the quality at your expense. However, if, as I suspect, they are only assigning 2 HD channels, then perhaps the channel itself is lowering the quality.

I don't have any recent stats to link to, but others have posted bitrates being used by various channels from time to time. In many cases, those stats show that either the channel has lowered their effective bitrate, or the content is using less, or they simply have new equipment that allocates bandwidth on the fly, nothing to do with the cableco.

Our local CBS is a prime example. They "were" using 17.9 out of the available 19.3 for HD video until they began multicasting. They have since dropped the HD to ~15 with the rest going to their sub-channel and audio. In fact, during March Madness, they actually drop the HD channel in favor of 3 SD channels. Obviously, anyone recording stuff on CBS can see less space being needed for recordings. They then often blame the cableco, when the cableco is at the mercy of the content provider. Our cableco, Cox, has stated more than once that they pass what they get and, AFAIK, no one has been able to refute this (and a few have tried). :)

Then there are channels like A&E-HD that only broadcast HD content part-time, even though the signal may be 1080i. I would suspect that the bitrate on actual HD would be different from that used for non-HD programming, though I could be wrong.

The biggest problem I see with all this though is that content providers seem to be okay with offering lower quality content because many viewers just don't "see" a difference. Well, as we all know, D* has used HD Lite and while it may look fine, studies have shown that you "can" see a difference in side-by-side comparisons (just like you can between OTA and cable). However, most HD subs are quite happy with D* quality which simply reinforces the content provider's beliefs.

As for bandwidth, Cox also said/says they are bandwidth constrained. However, they are doing things, like building out to 850MHz, reallocating resources from telephone and internet services, upgrading hardware, etc., to allow more HD content. I'm sure TWC is doing similar things in order to keep pace with satellite. I guess we'll see shortly as more channels go HD this fall and next year.

It sure would be nice if there was a way for anyone to see bitrates in real time via a diagnostic page/screen. The rates that I have seen came from TSR Reader data for captured recordings.

Dave, Some comments on a couple of your points:
Anyway, one way to check some of this is to go through and identify the QAM frequency being used for each channel to see how many are being assigned to a given frequency (a tedious process). If TWC-NYC is 'stuffing" more that 2 HD channels (or 1 HD and more than 8-10 SD channels) into a single frequency, then they are degrading the quality at your expense. However, if, as I suspect, they are only assigning 2 HD channels, then perhaps the channel itself is lowering the quality. I think that 12 SD channels is more the "norm" than 8-10.

I don't have any recent stats to link to, but others have posted bitrates being used by various channels from time to time. In many cases, those stats show that either the channel has lowered their effective bitrate, or the content is using less, or they simply have new equipment that allocates bandwidth on the fly, nothing to do with the cableco.I did this early this year (thanks to some help that you provided) and found that some bitrates were lower than I expected (12-14Mbps for HBO for example), yet there were only 2 HD channels/QAM (A QAM can handle 38Mbps). I also ran my data past the chief technician of the TW headend here and he verified that those were the kind of bitrates that they were receiving.

Our local CBS is a prime example. They "were" using 17.9 out of the available 19.3 for HD video until they began multicasting.According to some industry experts, there is about 1.3Mbps overhead in the OTA bitstream, so 18Mbps is about max that can be achieved.

Then there are channels like A&E-HD that only broadcast HD content part-time, even though the signal may be 1080i. I would suspect that the bitrate on actual HD would be different from that used for non-HD programming, though I could be wrong.I also looked into this on my tests, and found virtually no correlation between SD/HD program material and the bitrates - odd as that may seem.

Well, as we all know, D* has used HD Lite and while it may look fine, studies have shown that you "can" see a difference in side-by-side comparisons (just like you can between OTA and cable).Actually, in some areas cable is SUPERIOR to OTA when the station delivers the signal to cable via fiber with less compression than OTA. This is particularly true with PBS, which has a propensity to put lots of subs on their DTV signal (1 HD + 3 SD here).

Dave, Some comments on a couple of your points:Concur with all your points with only minor nits:

I only mentioned 8-10 just to put some number in. I didn't want to get into a discussion on exactly how many would fit and it didn't really matter for the point I was making.

I also didn't want to fuel any fire re cable vs OTA, so I gave the edge to OTA. Your point is certainly valid though.

Didn't mean to imply that I believe there is any direct correlation between SD/HD bitrates. I was simply making the point that bitrates differ for any number of reasons and I have no idea what individual channels do.

I do know that bitrates can and do vary from channel to channel, program to program, and even within a program. It's not as simple as taking a snapshot at any given point in time and making a general statement that a cableco/channel is rate-shaping, etc. Many folks don't understand how bandwidth is allocated with a portion going to video, a portion to audio, some to 1 or more sub-channels, and the rest filled with Null, or that is varies all the time, evenmore so with new equipment that does things on the fly.

My Second External Hard Drive Update :(

Well just 3 months after bragging about how well my external hard drive was working (post #5143, pg. 172), it has suffered a total failure! (loud continuous clicking at first, now when it's turned on it "buzzes" (spins?) for a few seconds followed by several low level clicks, then buzzes again, then silence). Since my setup (Western Digital 500 gB in a Vantac enclosure) seems to have become fairly common I thought it would be best to report the bad news as well the good!

Luckily, I still have about 4-months left on the drive's paltry 1-year warranty and thus far, WD customer support appears to be treating me right with an even exchange! I understand that these drives now come with a 3-year warranty - to their credit, WD will still allow me to extend their original warranty to 3-years for only $15 (which I will do!) I should get the replacement drive in 3-5 business days - plenty of time for my wife to start loading it up again with her favorite shows!

Although the Vantac enclosure doesn't have a fan, it always ran cool. For the Summer months, I added a quiet, plastic fan behind both my DVR and the external drive just to be safe. The WD customer service rep. said " ... these drives can last 3 years or 3 months, you never know!" She also said that they can be safely loaded to 100% without any problem (which I did on 1 or 2 occasions!)

Before I bought me drive, WD told me that the OEM drives have a 3 year warranty and the retail drives only have a one year warranty. Strange since the OEM drives are cheaper..

Anyway, My Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 16MB drive still works great in the AZiO ENC311SU41 enclosure w/o a fan, it has been running constantly for about 6 months now. My setup under name "BWX" here- http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/main

Not trying to throw any stones here, but I don't know what you consider a "fraction". I also don't know what the general difference in file size is between something at 18MBps and something else at 15MBps, but "fraction" seems a bit strong. :)
Going from an avg. of ~6G/hr to an average of 2-4G/hr on some channels is certainly a fraction in my point of view. And yes, they are stuffing 3 HD channels on some QAM frequencies in our area now. Or 2 HD channels and a few SD channels.....

I just received my WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB SATA 3.0Gb/s with KingWin Jet external enclosure. I paid $133 + $9 s/h. Probably don't have much (if any) warranty though. (MWAVE isn't an "authorized" dealer of WD drives as far as I can tell).

Drive was $103, case $30 and it has a fan, USB, and SATA ports. It included AC adapter and both cables!

Put it together last night, but haven't plugged it in. Need to read this thread again to refresh memory. Probably just unplug 8300, plug in drive, and power up again, right?

WOW. 1/2 Terrabyte for less than $150.... And, just in time for fall TV shows!!!!!!!!! Wooooo HOOOOOOO!!!!!

I remember when terrabytes were just a concept as a kid.

gp

I'm thinking of buying a Rosewill RX-358 and Seagate 7200.10 drive (either 500 or 750 GB). The reason I'm leaning toward the Seagate rather than the WD is because of the 5 year warranty.

I've noticed however, that some folks seem to think that the Seagate 7200.10 series is not the best choice and point to the database. Can anyone give me a principled/technical reason why the Seagate's should be any less "compatible" than the WD?

Alternatively is there another drive with a 5 year warranty that is more compatible?

Thanks.

Going from an avg. of ~6G/hr to an average of 2-4G/hr on some channels is certainly a fraction in my point of view. And yes, they are stuffing 3 HD channels on some QAM frequencies in our area now. Or 2 HD channels and a few SD channels.....

They probably have to do this for now to add channels. Hopefully once SDV rolls out they will provide the full version... Of course that depends on Navigator ever getting anywhere...

xnappo

I've noticed however, that some folks seem to think that the Seagate 7200.10 series is not the best choice and point to the database. Can anyone give me a principled/technical reason why the Seagate's should be any less "compatible" than the WD?

Alternatively is there another drive with a 5 year warranty that is more compatible?

Thanks.

It should be clear to you from the database that it WILL NOT WORK. It is not 'some folks' it is responsible for more failures than any other factor in the database. We don't know why, they just don't work. If you want a Seagate, get a DB35 series.

xnappo

It should be clear to you from the database that it WILL NOT WORK. It is not 'some folks' it is responsible for more failures than any other factor in the database. We don't know why, they just don't work. If you want a Seagate, get a DB35 series.

xnappo

With all due respect, if I thought it was clear from the database, I would not have posted the question. I'm just not sure if the survey represented by the database is sufficiently powered or controlled to draw any conclusions about cause and effect. I see a lot of failures, but I also see successes. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Hence, my request for a principled/technical explanation of why that should be. If you don't know the answer, that's OK. Perhaps someone else does.

With all due respect, if I thought it was clear from the database, I would not have posted the question. I'm just not sure if the survey represented by the database is sufficiently powered or controlled to draw any conclusions about cause and effect. I see a lot of failures, but I also see successes. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Hence, my request for a principled/technical explanation of why that should be. If you don't know the answer, that's OK. Perhaps someone else does.

I assure you that no one is going to give you a better answer than mine :) I have been here watching successes and failures in this thread since post one.

You are right, it has a 30% success rate. If you like those odds, go for it. Just don't come complaining if it gives you glitches.

We have theorized about it for over a year. Do a search any you will see many discussions about it including caching schemes, error recovery etc.

The database was started because we don't have any better means to judge, but with enough data such a scheme works fine. Count the number of WD RE16 drive and then the number of failures and you can clearly see a big difference in the success rates. There is enough data to rule out user error. I can tell you myself, I had a 7200.10, glitched, put a Maxtor in the same case, same cable - worked fine...

xnappo

Going from an avg. of ~6G/hr to an average of 2-4G/hr on some channels is certainly a fraction in my point of view. And yes, they are stuffing 3 HD channels on some QAM frequencies in our area now. Or 2 HD channels and a few SD channels.....That sure sucks (and I now see why you used the term "fraction" :) )! And then they are going to shove Navigator down your throat, if they haven't already.

I often wonder why there is so much difference between cableco's. I assume TWC-NYC is built out to at least 750MHz, so they should have as much bandwidth as Cox does here. I believe we are Cox's 2nd largest market for both internet and phone services, so they allocate more than other Cox markets to those services, but I don't know how all that compares to other cableco's. This discussion sure has been eye-opening. :eek:

I just added the APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT Aluminum 3.5" USB 2.0 & eSATA External Enclosure with a Western Digital WD5000AAKS (500GB) SATA drive to my 8300HD (SARA) last night; it was recognized and formated with no problems. One difference I DID note, just for the record, was I never saw a "your drive is ready for use" message. I gave it a few minutes after the second power cycle and checked the space usage stats to verify it was there. I went with the Apricorn case based on good reviews here, but also because I wanted a USB port in addition to the eSATA. Should my situation change and I no longer use the drive with my DVR, I can always use another ext drive with my computers.
A question: If I were to connect this drive now to a Windows XP machine, would XP recognize it and allow me to partition / format it to NTFS? Or does the SARA format somehow prevent this?

Oh, and for anyone considering the Apricorn enclosure, I just noticed this morning there's a $15 rebate for it on NewEgg through Sept. 30th.

Jack

A question: If I were to connect this drive now to a Windows XP machine, would XP recognize it and allow me to partition / format it to NTFS? Or does the SARA format somehow prevent this?
You will be able to partition and format it with XP after it have been used by SARA, and it can also be used by SARA after being NTFS formatted. However, all original data is lost going either way.

I'm thinking of buying a Rosewill RX-358 and Seagate 7200.10 drive (either 500 or 750 GB). The reason I'm leaning toward the Seagate rather than the WD is because of the 5 year warranty.

I've noticed however, that some folks seem to think that the Seagate 7200.10 series is not the best choice and point to the database. Can anyone give me a principled/technical reason why the Seagate's should be any less "compatible" than the WD?

Alternatively is there another drive with a 5 year warranty that is more compatible?

Thanks.

Both of these drives are WD drives and are server grade drives and carry a 5 year warrenty.

I use:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136053

you can also look at:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136143

they work flawlessly in an apricorn enclosure on the 8300HD with SARA.

They also come in other sizes. Just make sure it has a YS at the end of the model number.

I now use the AAKS version because I needed to re-task the previously mentioned drive for a media control center. But the drive did work with no problem for the few months I had it in the 8300HD.

That sure sucks (and I now see why you used the term "fraction" :) )! And then they are going to shove Navigator down your throat, if they haven't already.

I often wonder why there is so much difference between cableco's. I assume TWC-NYC is built out to at least 750MHz, so they should have as much bandwidth as Cox does here. I believe we are Cox's 2nd largest market for both internet and phone services, so they allocate more than other Cox markets to those services, but I don't know how all that compares to other cableco's. This discussion sure has been eye-opening. :eek:

Eeek is right! Right now TWC-NYC is only giving out 8300HDC boxes with Navigator. The rest of us (who follow such things) are EXTREMELY nervous because at some point they are going to kill our very functional Passport/8300HD box for this piece of crap software. AND, from what I read, it's going to be a different version that the one for the HDC boxes...

I thought I read that TWC-NYC was a 875MHz system, something like that.

You will be able to partition and format it with XP after it have been used by SARA, and it can also be used by SARA after being NTFS formatted. However, all original data is lost going either way.
Thanks, BPlayer!

Jack

I have a Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 on order. This drive is supposed to be opimized for DVR's ("The 500GB DB35 7200.3 3.5" Disc Drive for DVRs redefines value for high-capacity systems and delivers performance optimized for DVR storage and optimization.")

I should have it in a couple of days and I'll post my results after I give it a workout.


I'm thinking of buying a Rosewill RX-358 and Seagate 7200.10 drive (either 500 or 750 GB). The reason I'm leaning toward the Seagate rather than the WD is because of the 5 year warranty.

I've noticed however, that some folks seem to think that the Seagate 7200.10 series is not the best choice and point to the database. Can anyone give me a principled/technical reason why the Seagate's should be any less "compatible" than the WD?

Alternatively is there another drive with a 5 year warranty that is more compatible?

Thanks.

What would make a drive "optimized for DVR" as opposed to other HD applications?

I thought the pre-packaged HDs (like the WD DVR Expander) were adapted to DVR use by adding low-power modes or something like that.

What would make a drive "optimized for DVR" as opposed to other HD applications?

I thought the pre-packaged HDs (like the WD DVR Expander) were adapted to DVR use by adding low-power modes or something like that.
You'll get some disagreement on this, but my understanding is "optimized" in this case means de-tuning the error correction so that the drive does not try to re-read a particular section to reconstruct bad data - causing the "stream" to stop. Better to take a small hit from an error than to turn it into a big interruption is the thinking. And it's not "as opposed to other HD applications" but rather as opposed to computer files and programs where there is nothing streaming and taking time to re-read is not a problem.

You'll get some disagreement on this, but my understanding is "optimized" in this case means de-tuning the error correction so that the drive does not try to re-read a particular section to reconstruct bad data - causing the "stream" to stop.

I think all will agree that it is firmware differences and perhaps cache differences.

Here is an interesting article about 7200.10 drives and differences in firmware versions:
http://www.fluffles.net/articles/seagate-AAK-firmware
Note that I don't think this explains the issue with DVRs (ReplayTVs also have issues with 7200.10s) because the speed difference isn't enough to hamper HD recording (from what I can tell anyway).

xnappo

I think all will agree that it is firmware differences and perhaps cache differences.

Here is an interesting article about 7200.10 drives and differences in firmware versions:
http://www.fluffles.net/articles/seagate-AAK-firmware
Note that I don't think this explains the issue with DVRs (ReplayTVs also have issues with 7200.10s) because the speed difference isn't enough to hamper HD recording (from what I can tell anyway).

xnappo
EC would be tunable via firmware, wouldn't it?

I've bookmarked the article for later, but it looks very interesting!

I just added the APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT Aluminum 3.5" USB 2.0 & eSATA External Enclosure with a Western Digital WD5000AAKS (500GB) SATA drive to my 8300HD (SARA) last night; it was recognized and formated with no problems.
Jack

So, are those two items all you need? Or do you need to add a SATA cable, too? If so, do you have a part number for the cable? Is an eSATA cable the same as a SATA cable?

Oh, and BTW, how large is the hard drive in the 8300HD? How large of a second drive do you need to double the capacity? I'm pretty sure I don't need more than double the current capacity.

Just make sure it has a YS at the end of the model number.

I now use the AAKS version because I needed to re-task the previously mentioned drive for a media control center.

What does AAKS and ..YS mean? Do they both work?

So, are those two items all you need? Or do you need to add a SATA cable, too?

The case comes with a cable.

xnappo

eSATA and SATA refer to the connector not the cable. Same pinout, but one is every so slightly different (and eSATA is "rated" for far more insertions than SATA). AND a cable can have a SATA connection on one end and eSATA one on the other. So it's up to the two pieces of equipment.

Far as I know, the 8300HD (and presumably the 8300HDC) use a eSATA connector. So you have to look at the enclosure you get to house the drive.

If any particular enclosure comes with a cable, most likely it has eSATA at the end that connects to the STB... but that is NOT a guarentee.

So, are those two items all you need? Or do you need to add a SATA cable, too? If so, do you have a part number for the cable? Is an eSATA cable the same as a SATA cable?

Oh, and BTW, how large is the hard drive in the 8300HD? How large of a second drive do you need to double the capacity? I'm pretty sure I don't need more than double the current capacity.
The Apricorn case comes with the correct cable, at least this particular model of Apricorn does. And if you think you may ever want to "reallocate" the external drive to PC use, the case kit is nice because it also comes with a USB port and a cable, and a "eSATA PCI Bracket" with which you can add an eSATA port to the back of a computer, if the computer has an internal eSATA cable connector. And I believe the cable is eSATA, not SATA.

I think the 8300HD has a 160GB internal drive. But remember the PC Mantra: "You can never have TOO much disk space!"

Jack

So, are those two items all you need? Or do you need to add a SATA cable, too? If so, do you have a part number for the cable? Is an eSATA cable the same as a SATA cable?

Oh, and BTW, how large is the hard drive in the 8300HD? How large of a second drive do you need to double the capacity? I'm pretty sure I don't need more than double the current capacity.



What does AAKS and ..YS mean? Do they both work?

AAKS is a standard desktop drive with error checking enabled in the firmware. A YS drive is a server grade drive with error checking disabled and usually has a longer warrenty. The reason error checking is disabled is most of these drives are put into a raid 5 system and the raid card usually handles the error checking. If you require error checking on these drives there is a WD utility (very hard to find) that will allow you to access the HD and turn it on.

The 8300HD has a 160GB drive. The larger the external drive the more room you will have. The internal HD is only good for about 20 hours of HD programing. Adding a 500GB drive will give 80 hours of HD programming.

The apricorn enclosure you refer to has everything you need to hook up the 8300HD including the cable. Just install a drive and plug it in to the DVR. Power down the DVR turn on the Hard drive and power back up the DVR. Once DVR prompts for a format it will take about a minute or two for it to format. Then power down and turn back on the DVR after the format so it registers and displays all that new space. Also be aware that the DVR will give no indication that it has finished formating. So just wait 2 minutes then power the DVR off then back on.

I installed the WD DVR Expander which is nominally a 500G system. The 8300HD diag page for HDD INFO shows the drive to be WDC WD5000AVJS and the Capacity to be 465GB. What's going on?

I installed the WD DVR Expander which is nominally a 500G system. The 8300HD diag page for HDD INFO shows the drive to be WDC WD5000AVJS and the Capacity to be 465GB. What's going on?
Are you familiar with the different "definitions" of 1K, 1MB and 1GB?

Are you familiar with the different "definitions" of 1K, 1MB and 1GB?And overhead? The internal 160 works out to 152 after the initial setup and the overhead increases as the size increases. So, 465 is certainly in the ballpark.

Actually I am. But I didn't actually to the calculation :-(

465 * 2 ** 30 is about 500*10**9, which explains the difference. Thanks for the kick in the rear.

But just for fun, what do others with nominal 500G drives see as the capacity?

Are you familiar with the different "definitions" of 1K, 1MB and 1GB?

But just for fun, what do others with nominal 500G drives see as the capacity?This was discussed to death a couple of years ago when SATA drives started coming down in price. At the time, it was determined that one got the most bang for the buck with 300G drives because of the higher overhead penalty for larger drives. Of course, as prices have dropped further, this is no longer really an issue.

As for your question though, assuming I understand it, allowing for possible differences in Passport and SARA (though I don't think they differ in this area), everyone should end up with the same capacity for a given drive size. If you get 465G, so should everyone else.

AAKS is a standard desktop drive with error checking enabled in the firmware. A YS drive is a server grade drive with error checking disabled and usually has a longer warrenty. The reason error checking is disabled is most of these drives are put into a raid 5 system and the raid card usually handles the error checking. If you require error checking on these drives there is a WD utility (very hard to find) that will allow you to access the HD and turn it on.

Thanks, danny. So, just for clarification, would both AAKS or YS drives work "out of the box" in this application? It sounds like a YS drive would be preferable, but more costly? Would you have to do somethign to the AAKS drive to disable the error checking?

Thanks, danny. So, just for clarification, would both AAKS or YS drives work "out of the box" in this application? It sounds like a YS drive would be preferable, but more costly? Would you have to do somethign to the AAKS drive to disable the error checking?

This drive worked right out of the box in an apricorn enclosure on my 8300HD which uses SARA. Nothing needs to be done with the AAKS this will also work right out of the box.

But just for fun, what do others with nominal 500G drives see as the capacity?Although, with SARA, there is more information stored on the internal drive than the external drive, eg. recorded program description and pointers, the available space on my upgraded WD 500MB internal drive also shows as 465MB.

Hi.

I've searched this thread and google but did not find a definitive answer.

I have a Vantec enclosure with a Seagate 7200.10 500GB SATA2 drive, using it with Videotron. Have been using it since last June. No problem (other than the noise/heat) until I decided to go HD. Now, like most here who have the same drive, I see glitches all over the place pretty much all the time when recording or watching anything in HD. Yes, like most here, I would really have liked to find this forum before.

So, I ordered a new enclosure (Antec MX-1, just in case) and a Western Digital 500GB SE16 drive.

I know I can just transfer what is on the external Seagate drive to the VCR (does not seem appealing to me...) or use the old and the new enclosure/drive one at a time until I've cleaned up the old but the real question is:

Can I copy (using dd in linux to do an exact bit copy) the old Seagate drive to the new Western Digital drive of the same size, use the WD drive and not loose anything?

I'll have the new hard disk tomorrow so I do not know the geometry and number of sectors of both drives but they must be pretty close.

If it can't be done and if I decide to chuck the old Seagate drive, how do I tell the 8300hd to rebuild it's program list from what it actually see on it's drive?

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

After you shut down the XHDD and the 8300, unplug the X from the 8300. then power up the 8300. What you see on the 8300 is what you got. I'm pretty sure. I don't know about the HDD clone.

Can I copy (using dd in linux to do an exact bit copy) the old Seagate drive to the new Western Digital drive of the same size, use the WD drive and not loose anything?

If it can't be done and if I decide to chuck the old Seagate drive, how do I tell the 8300hd to rebuild it's program list from what it actually see on it's drive?

Unfortunately cloning the drive cannot be done. Many have tried and failed.

Disconnect the old drive then try to play each entry in the recorded program list. If it does not play this means that it was on the external. Just delete that entry. Then connect your new external HDD.

Unfortunately cloning the drive cannot be done. Many have tried and failed.

Disconnect the old drive then try to play each entry in the recorded program list. If it does not play this means that it was on the external. Just delete that entry. Then connect your new external HDD.You should also be able to swap the new/old drives back and forth until you've viewed everything on the old drive, though this might be a bit of a hassle depending on your physical setup.

Well, still getting glitches even with the DB35. As was suggested on this forum, it might be the Rosewell enclosure. I'm going to give it a try now with the Apricorn as was recommend here (and good new is that it now has a $15 rebate)

I'll post my results with with the Apricorn (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817362002) / Seagate DB35 in a couple of weeks.



I have a Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 on order. This drive is supposed to be opimized for DVR's ("The 500GB DB35 7200.3 3.5" Disc Drive for DVRs redefines value for high-capacity systems and delivers performance optimized for DVR storage and optimization.")

I should have it in a couple of days and I'll post my results after I give it a workout.

Sorry if this is not the right place to post this question:

We just got our WD My DVR Expander today and tried to hook up to SA8300HD. TWC is our service provider, but our diagnostic screen says our box is SATA enabled. However, after following the directions in the expander box, the 8300HD doesn't seem to recognize the expander. Nothing has changed from before hooking things up.

Can someone who has a working WD DVR Expander tell me how they got it to work?

Thanks!

Hello all,

I've read a lot of this thread, but maybe I'm missing something:

I've got the Apricorn drive case and I've tried it with both the Samsung Spinpoint and the WD5000AAKS and with both I get minor audio and video glitches every so often. I notice these more on HD content.

IS there a way around this? Could it be my SATA cable? A setting on the Explorer?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Sorry if this is not the right place to post this question:

We just got our WD My DVR Expander today and tried to hook up to SA8300HD. TWC is our service provider, but our diagnostic screen says our box is SATA enabled. However, after following the directions in the expander box, the 8300HD doesn't seem to recognize the expander. Nothing has changed from before hooking things up.

Can someone who has a working WD DVR Expander tell me how they got it to work?

Thanks!

Reboot 2 or three times (unplug 8300).. Also make sure you have the correct eSATA cables.. or try another set.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=351824

Hello all,

I've read a lot of this thread, but maybe I'm missing something:

I've got the Apricorn drive case and I've tried it with both the Samsung Spinpoint and the WD5000AAKS and with both I get minor audio and video glitches every so often. I notice these more on HD content.

IS there a way around this? Could it be my SATA cable? A setting on the Explorer?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

It could be the cable
It could be the signal going to the 8300HD
It could be the connections inside the apricorn enclosure. (reseat the drive)
It could be the 8300HD (this was the problem in my case).

One clue I found telling me it was the 8300HD was if I rebooted the box it was good for a week then the glitching got progressivly worse.

I'm having same problem. Hooked up my Rosewill enclosure with 320GB WD HD and the 8300 saw it fine, formated it and gave me a message it was ready to go. It recorded a show but it played back terrible. How would you know if it's recording or playing back wrong? Don't see how it could be the 8300 since everything works fine with it's internal HD.

I'm having same problem. Hooked up my Rosewill enclosure with 320GB WD HD and the 8300 saw it fine, formated it and gave me a message it was ready to go. It recorded a show but it played back terrible. How would you know if it's recording or playing back wrong? Don't see how it could be the 8300 since everything works fine with it's internal HD.

My assumption is that if the glitch is reproducible when you backup and play again, it is in the recording. If it changes, it is in the playback.

Sorry if this is not the right place to post this question:

We just got our WD My DVR Expander today and tried to hook up to SA8300HD. TWC is our service provider, but our diagnostic screen says our box is SATA enabled. However, after following the directions in the expander box, the 8300HD doesn't seem to recognize the expander. Nothing has changed from before hooking things up.

Can someone who has a working WD DVR Expander tell me how they got it to work?

Thanks!


Can you expand on how you went about installing it?

Try the following:

Unplug your 8300HD then hook up the dvr expander using an esata cable (Should be provided with expander) power up the Hard drive first then plug the power back into the 8300HD. Once the 8300HD reboots and prompts for a format it will take about a minute or two for it to format, it will not indicate the formats complete so just wait 2 minutes. Then leave the DVR Expander running and unplug the 8300HD and plug it back in so it registers and displays all that new space.

Note that I kept saying UNPLUG the 8300HD. It must be completely powered down when installing the hard drive. Simply turning off the power by the on/off switch or remote is not going to work. The AC power has to be completely disconnected from the 8300HD.

i just got a 750 gig hd and it says there is a conecton problem
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8294017&st=esata&lp=3&type=product&cp=1&id=1172277308443
this is the case

di o need to format the hard drive? it works in the comp

Can you expand on how you went about installing it?

Try the following:

Unplug your 8300HD then hook up the dvr expander using an esata cable (Should be provided with expander) power up the Hard drive first then plug the power back into the 8300HD. Once the 8300HD reboots and prompts for a format it will take about a minute or two for it to format, it will not indicate the formats complete so just wait 2 minutes. Then leave the DVR Expander running and unplug the 8300HD and plug it back in so it registers and displays all that new space.

Note that I kept saying UNPLUG the 8300HD. It must be completely powered down when installing the hard drive. Simply turning off the power by the on/off switch or remote is not going to work. The AC power has to be completely disconnected from the 8300HD.

Thanks. It turns out we have crappy cables (shipped from WD but it falls out if you breathe on it). We jammed them in real tight, followed your instructions, and now it works. Thanks for the advice everyone!

Thanks. It turns out we have crappy cables (shipped from WD but it falls out if you breathe on it). We jammed them in real tight, followed your instructions, and now it works. Thanks for the advice everyone!
Then I would suggest
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812191017
if its esata to esata

Or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812191019

If its esata to sata

There expensive but the best you can find. Connections are the most important part of the entire setup. If you go cheap you can have all sorts of problems like intermitten glitching, early termination of recordings, the drive disapearing etc...

Well, still getting glitches even with the DB35. As was suggested on this forum, it might be the Rosewell enclosure. I'm going to give it a try now with the Apricorn as was recommend here (and good new is that it now has a $15 rebate)

I'll post my results with with the Apricorn (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817362002) / Seagate DB35 in a couple of weeks.

Since I've hooked up the Rosewill, my reg. programs as well as my recorded program freeze for a second or two every now and then. The recorded programs have the lip sinc issue. The only way to stop this is everytime it happens I rewind for a second or two. Then it's all right till the next time. Could it be the enclosure? Tony let us know if your probs disappear with the Acorn. Thanks.

Then I would suggest
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812191017
if its esata to esata

Or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812191019

If its esata to sata

There expensive but the best you can find. Connections are the most important part of the entire setup. If you go cheap you can have all sorts of problems like intermitten glitching, early termination of recordings, the drive disapearing etc...

Oh does this make me laugh! I was LAMBASTED big time for saying elsewhere that 5 buck HDMI cables had to be built with cheap/chintzy, crappy connectors and thus I wouldn't recommend them. Several seemed offended, claiming I was misinformed. More irony as I have handled hundreds of miles of wire and probably thousands of connectors, having personally (2 of us over 4 months) wired an entire radio station once upon a time.

I have found it a good truism to look at the cheapest, at the most expensive and buy in the middle.

Then I would suggest
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812191017
if its esata to esata

Or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812191019

If its esata to sata

There expensive but the best you can find. Connections are the most important part of the entire setup. If you go cheap you can have all sorts of problems like intermitten glitching, early termination of recordings, the drive disapearing etc...

If I knew for sure a $26 cable would solve my problem then I wouldn't hesitate to get one. But seems a high price to pay for possibly no improvement.

Oh does this make me laugh! I was LAMBASTED big time for saying elsewhere that 5 buck HDMI cables had to be built with cheap/chintzy, crappy connectors and thus I wouldn't recommend them. Several seemed offended, claiming I was misinformed. More irony as I have handled hundreds of miles of wire and probably thousands of connectors, having personally (2 of us over 4 months) wired an entire radio station once upon a time.

I have found it a good truism to look at the cheapest, at the most expensive and buy in the middle.


Another truism is "you buy cheap you get cheap" and "you get what you pay for". I can't tell you how many times I've gotten burnt by using cheap cabling. Cheap cables may work fine for a while but inevedibly will go bad in a short matter of time. Cables that are handled to much or have cheap ends that oxidize and fit poorly usually give some sort of problem in a very short amount of time. I really get pissed when I install the cable taking an hour or more to tie it up nice put it in a wire harness then move the very heavy home theater cabnets back to the wall and 2 weeks later poof no picture or no sound.

You also are correct look at the cheapest then look at the most expensive and buy somewhere in the middle. One more thing I can add to that is if your going to buy in the middle make sure its from a major brand manufacturer.

So if they want to lambaste me let the roasting begin.

Another truism is "you buy cheap you get cheap" and "you get what you pay for". I can't tell you how many times I've gotten burnt by using cheap cabling. Cheap cables may work fine for a while but inevedibly will go bad in a short matter of time. Cables that are handled to much or have cheap ends that oxidize and fit poorly usually give some sort of problem in a very short amount of time. I really get pissed when I install the cable taking an hour or more to tie it up nice put it in a wire harness then move the very heavy home theater cabnets back to the wall and 2 weeks later poof no picture or no sound.

You also are correct look at the cheapest then look at the most expensive and buy somewhere in the middle. One more thing I can add to that is if your going to buy in the middle make sure its from a major brand manufacturer.

So if they want to lambaste me let the roasting begin.
Many are so leery of being taken by expensive cable snake oil salesman that they get taken by cheap cable snake oil salesmen.

Many are so leery of being taken by expensive cable snake oil salesman that they get taken by cheap cable snake oil salesmen.

Right. Monster for example is an evil company, NEVER buy their products! But.. you don't want bottom of the barrel either.

xnappo

Many are so leery of being taken by expensive cable snake oil salesman that they get taken by cheap cable snake oil salesmen.

Interestingly enough, while our focus is on HD video, this exact same issues has been going on for YEARS in the audio business.

And now that we've (with my "help") done this one to death, let's move on!

Does anyone leave their fan cooled enclosures on 24/7? I've had my Rosewill for about a week now and never turned it off. Today I could smell the fan motor. Any imput greatly appreciated.

Does anyone leave their fan cooled enclosures on 24/7? I've had my Rosewill for about a week now and never turned it off. Today I could smell the fan motor. Any imput greatly appreciated.

My CoolDrive has been on 24/7 since 11/2006. No problems.

http://www.cooldrives.com/dudralenfors.html

Well, went out and got an enclosure, installed a Seagate 500Gb hard drive and connected it to my8300HD. Whala!! It asked me if I want to format and I pressed "A" and all seemed fine.

The only problems that I am having is recordings are incomplete, a 30 minute recording was in the list of recorded programs a 4 minutes, a 60 minute was in the list of recorded programs as 11 minutes.

Any Ideas ?

Well, went out and got an enclosure, installed a Seagate 500Gb hard drive and connected it to my8300HD. Whala!! It asked me if I want to format and I pressed "A" and all seemed fine.

The only problems that I am having is recordings are incomplete, a 30 minute recording was in the list of recorded programs a 4 minutes, a 60 minute was in the list of recorded programs as 11 minutes.

Any Ideas ?

Is it a 7200.10? They don't work. If not, what is the exact model?

xnappo

has anyone been able to get anything larger than a 500gb external drive to work?

has anyone been able to get anything larger than a 500gb external drive to work?
I don't think so. Have you checked xnappo's database (linked in the post above yours)?

has anyone been able to get anything larger than a 500gb external drive to work?

It looks like a few have. I bet with my system, and enclosure, a 750 GB drive would work just fine.

It looks like a few have. I bet with my system, and enclosure, a 750 GB drive would work just fine.
You could certainly give it a try. Personally, I'd want to have a Plan B for that 750GB drive just in case. ;)

Just received 2 new (to me) 8300HDC's running Navigator from TWC NYC following a move to a new apt. I've waded through the forum, but can't seem to find anyone reporting being able to get an external drive hooked up. Has anyone got this to work yet? If so, could you please post details of what you used..

8300HDC
Navigator 2.4.4_2

No major problems with Navigator thusfar.. Can't seem to prioritize scheduled recordings or shows that have been recorded which, frankly, sucks..

has anyone been able to get anything larger than a 500gb external drive to work?

I've noticed that Apricorn is selling 750GB and 1TB DVR expanders specifically for the SA 8300HD so I presume that they were able to make the larger drives work.

http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=37

Just received 2 new (to me) 8300HDC's running Navigator from TWC NYC following a move to a new apt. I've waded through the forum, but can't seem to find anyone reporting being able to get an external drive hooked up. Has anyone got this to work yet? If so, could you please post details of what you used..

There are a couple of people in the database (see my sig). Your could PM them...

xnappo

I picked up the Western Digital "My DVR Expander" and plugged it into my Time Warner Carolina (Charlotte area) 8300HD and everything is working great. The lack of rewind sucks though :(

I have a APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT Enclosure with a Seagate 500 GB purchased from Bestb*y ($99 this week).
I am getting frequent glitches and stutters.
I plan on getting a WD 500 GB from Frys and do some testing.

r.

Just received 2 new (to me) 8300HDC's running Navigator from TWC NYC following a move to a new apt. I've waded through the forum, but can't seem to find anyone reporting being able to get an external drive hooked up. Has anyone got this to work yet? If so, could you please post details of what you used..

8300HDC
Navigator 2.4.4_2

No major problems with Navigator thusfar.. Can't seem to prioritize scheduled recordings or shows that have been recorded which, frankly, sucks..

FYI, there is a specific NYC thread that you may want to visit...

I have read a few posts saying they got an external drive to work with Nagivator... AFAIK that software is going into areas that currently run Passport. While external HDs are supported (not officially) in Passport, they have a bad bug that negates their use for those who really use the "trick play" features (pause live, then be able to use FF or RR).

I have a APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT Enclosure with a Seagate 500 GB purchased from Bestb*y ($99 this week).
I am getting frequent glitches and stutters.
I plan on getting a WD 500 GB from Frys and do some testing.

r.

Maybe I need to add Seagate 7200.10s don't work to my sig?

xnappo

I picked up the Western Digital "My DVR Expander" and plugged it into my Time Warner Carolina (Charlotte area) 8300HD and everything is working great. The lack of rewind sucks though :(

Charlotte is using passport. that explains the loss of rewind. if you go to exchange that box the new one will have navigator.(from what I've read in the SARA and navigator threads.) up here in Statesville we use SARA and I've heard no plans to change to navigator,, YET.

ok..so I purchased a Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT SATA Backup & External Storage System and a Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM and it has been working since last February but now my Cablevision DVR does not recognize the drive anymore. It keeps coming up with an error message which says to check cables and power of the external drive and that it has not been connected properly.

Any advice?

ok..so I purchased a Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT SATA Backup & External Storage System and a Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM and it has been working since last February but now my Cablevision DVR does not recognize the drive anymore. It keeps coming up with an error message which says to check cables and power of the external drive and that it has not been connected properly.

Any advice?
I assume that you have checked the connection between the enclosure and the box? Also check the cables and connections INSIDE of the enclosure. eSATA connections can easily become dislodged enough to cause the message you are seeing.

Hello and thank you for all the information on hooking up an external drive to the 8300HD It*appears I've been successful in interfacing the drive and formatting it however I'm a little unclear as to how to do the test that's mentioned on your site. How do you "record two HD streams and play one of the two back delayed."

I also seem to have lost the ability to replay any portion of something I'm watching in real time, and if you pause the action and restart
it jumps*forward to the real time broadcast rather than viewing everything you've missed since you paused the action...not good.

Also getting glitches as I'm watching in real time that seem to translate into glitchy recording. I'll post my findings as a no pass unless you can help

Also getting glitches as I'm watching in real time that seem to translate into glitchy recording. I'll post my findings as a no pass unless you can help

Hmmm... Two in one day. This Best Buy sale on 7200.10s this week is going to cause issues. Seagate 7200.10 drives do not work well - they usually cause glitches. I assume your Barracuda is a 7200.10. The loss of rewind during live viewing is 'normal' for Passport.

xnappo

Hello and thank you for all the information on hooking up an external drive to the 8300HD It*appears I've been successful in interfacing the drive and formatting it however I'm a little unclear as to how to do the test that's mentioned on your site. How do you "record two HD streams and play one of the two back delayed."

I also seem to have lost the ability to replay any portion of something I'm watching in real time, and if you pause the action and restart
it jumps*forward to the real time broadcast rather than viewing everything you've missed since you paused the action...not good.

Also getting glitches as I'm watching in real time that seem to translate into glitchy recording. I'll post my findings as a no pass unless you can helpFor this it makes A BIG DIFFERENCE what kind of system that you are on (SARA, Passport or Navigator). It often also helps us pinpoint cable related stuff if you include your LOCATION in your profile (click on User CP to update your profile). You will note that most of us regulars here also include the software and version in our signature.

So if I add an external drive I automatically loose the stop action rewind function, no matter what drive I use?http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/confused.gif

So if I add an external drive I automatically loose the stop action rewind function, no matter what drive I use?http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/confused.gif

If you have Passport - yes. (unless your external drive is more full than the internal drive - in which case it will come back until the internal drive fills up more).

xnappo

Hi Everyone -

I am on Time Warner Cable in New York City.

My setup is:
SA 8300 HD Box running Passport Echo 2.5.066 software
External Drive - Seagate DB35.3 Series Hard Drive
External Drive enclosure - Apricorn SATA & USB EZ Bus DTS

About two months ago I setup the extra harddrive with no problems and it ran fine. About a week or so ago - I went into my list of recordings and everything from the external hard drive was missing. I unplugged the drive, replugged it back in - and was prompted for a re-format. I did that, however for some reason it's unable to format that drive - When I go into diagnostics, in the error log it shows: Format Error (0xffff).

At first I thought it was an issue with the harddrive, so I replaced it - no luck, still having the same issue.

I know some people had posted having a similiar issue a few months back - but I couldn't find any resolution searching through the forums.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Stephen

Hi Everyone -

I am on Time Warner Cable in New York City.

My setup is:
SA 8300 HD Box running Passport Echo 2.5.066 software
External Drive - Seagate DB35.3 Series Hard Drive
External Drive enclosure - Apricorn SATA & USB EZ Bus DTS

About two months ago I setup the extra harddrive with no problems and it ran fine. About a week or so ago - I went into my list of recordings and everything from the external hard drive was missing. I unplugged the drive, replugged it back in - and was prompted for a re-format. I did that, however for some reason it's unable to format that drive - When I go into diagnostics, in the error log it shows: Format Error (0xffff).

At first I thought it was an issue with the harddrive, so I replaced it - no luck, still having the same issue.

I know some people had posted having a similiar issue a few months back - but I couldn't find any resolution searching through the forums.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Stephen

It's actually very, very rare, but there is a slim chance the drive really is bad. Plug it into your computer format it and copy stuff to it. In all likelihood, nothing is wrong with the drive. After this, try getting it running on the 8300HD.

My CoolDrive has been on 24/7 since 11/2006. No problems.

http://www.cooldrives.com/dudralenfors.html

Thanks for replying. It gives me some peace of mind knowing that others leave their fans on and will reply with helpful info. Again, thanks for replying.

Charlotte is using passport. that explains the loss of rewind. if you go to exchange that box the new one will have navigator.(from what I've read in the SARA and navigator threads.) up here in Statesville we use SARA and I've heard no plans to change to navigator,, YET.

The horror stories about it in that other thread kind makes me not want to do that.

I have a 8300 HD with Comcast in Pittsburgh PA, and SARA, I believe. After speaking to a manager at Comast (CSR's did not know you could add a hard drive) I purchased a Seagate Free Agent Pro 500 GB with both eSata and USB connections. Then I looked at this thread to find out what cable to use and it appears this drive is incompatible. It has been unpacked (that's how I knew I need a cable). Should I even bother trying it? If so, does the 8300 have eSata connecton? I am having trouble eyeballing it to see if it looks the same as the eSata on the drive (it is marked Sata on the 8300). I am confused by the distinctions between eSata and Sata 1, Sata 2, etc. I am also a bit overwhelmed by the amount of info here. I have done several searches. Thanks

I'd try to clarify it for you, but there are other regulars here that don't like explanations that folks can understand!

I purchased a Seagate Free Agent Pro 500 GB with both eSata and USB connections. Then I looked at this thread to find out what cable to use and it appears this drive is incompatible. It has been unpacked (that's how I knew I need a cable). Should I even bother trying it? If so, does the 8300 have eSata connecton? I am having trouble eyeballing it to see if it looks the same as the eSata on the drive (it is marked Sata on the 8300). I am confused by the distinctions between eSata and Sata 1, Sata 2, etc. I am also a bit overwhelmed by the amount of info here. I have done several searches. Thanks

You are right - from the database the chances of it working are low(five failures out of five attempts combining SARA and Passport). If you did want to try, here is the type of cable you would need:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812150023

I think someone here took the drive out of the Seagate case and put it in an Apricorn case and got it working, but I don't remember the details.

xnappo

...I think someone here took the drive out of the Seagate case and put it in an Apricorn case and got it working, but I don't remember the details.

xnappo

The one I'm aware of just used the raw drive without the case with a Sata to ESata cable and that it worked fine that way.

These FreeAgent drives have gotten really tempting to troubleshoot with Costco selling the 750GB model for under two.

Did anyone try defeating the FreeAgent's 15 minute sleep mode? That would certainly screw up the hand shake. I'm also wondering if anyone removed the USB and ESata module that just plugs in at the bottom of the drive case. The connector that is then revealed looks like it has more pins than is needed for Sata but may be a direct connection to the drive.

Argh. Sleep mode, sounds like another complication. And the cables sure seem like a wild card, based on the reviews. Thanks for the input, though. Now I have improved my search methods and also read further into the 8300 manual. They advise a hard drive should have no switch and should power up on being plugged in. If I lose power, the Freeagent Pro will not power back up on its own when power is restored, I tried it. Granted I could buy a UPS for my 8300 and the Seagate, but that won't cure the sleep problem. I think I will go back to the drawing board (and the chart). The chart seems real short considering the length of this thread. Now to find a tutorial on selecting components and building an external hard drive.

Now to find a tutorial on selecting components and building an external hard drive.

I just spent a few more bucks and got the WD "My DVR Expander". It was up and running in about 1 minute w/no problems. The Apricorn DVR Xpander is even cheaper. Unless you're on a very tight budget, I'd go w/one of those and skip the hassles.

Harold

My brand-new DVR Expander is glitching every 3-4 minutes whenever I watch one program and record another.

I have a SA 8240HD (which is the same as an 8300) running SARA 1.90.5.201 and it works fine standalone, glitch-free. But when I add the DVR Expander, that's when the trouble starts.

It seems the DVR Expander can't handle two streams at once?

Or does cabling matter? Maybe buy some more expensive ones?

ss,

I've "tested" my Expander several times - recorded 2 hd programs while watching a recorded hd program - w/no problems, using the provided cable. I'm also on SARA and the 8300.

Harold

My brand-new DVR Expander is glitching every 3-4 minutes whenever I watch one program and record another.


Apricorn or WD? The cable can make a difference if it isn't making good contact. If it is an Apricorn I would be interested to know what drive is inside.

xnappo

Lardog/raze,

Could you please enter your failures into the database? This will help others in the future!

Thanks!
xnappo

xnappo,

Is there any point in entering the WD Expander success into the db? It seems pretty much established that it works, but if you think it would help...

Harold

xnappo,

Is there any point in entering the WD Expander success into the db? It seems pretty much established that it works, but if you think it would help...

Harold
Yes, of course it will help. It will help reinforce that that item is pretty much guaranteed to work. I've seen quite a few posters who looked at the database and then pretty much ignored it, or came up with an entirely different conclusion on a particular combo. Repetition is good.

Yes, of course it will help. It will help reinforce that that item is pretty much guaranteed to work. I've seen quite a few posters who looked at the database and then pretty much ignored it, or came up with an entirely different conclusion on a particular combo. Repetition is good.

Exactly. With a database like this with user error and other issues causing noise in the data you need as much data as possible to get accuracy.

Thanks,
xnappo

'k. Done!

Harold

Exactly. With a database like this with user error and other issues causing noise in the data you need as much data as possible to get accuracy.

Thanks,
xnappo
I like that - "noise in the data." :D

Apricorn or WD? The cable can make a difference if it isn't making good contact. If it is an Apricorn I would be interested to know what drive is inside.

xnappo


I have the Western Digital 500GB DVR Expander. It's a real pain. Just pausing a live show, rewinding it a bit, and then playing again starts the glitches going every time.

I have the Western Digital 500GB DVR Expander. It's a real pain. Just pausing a live show, rewinding it a bit, and then playing again starts the glitches going every time.

Hmm that is a bummer since others have been successful with it. The good news is since you bought something that is specifically for DVRs you should be able to get support from WD. It could be a bad cable or a bad drive. One person I remember actually DID have a bad box too. For me I live close to a TWC customer service building, so I would temporarily try another box... I guess just try to eliminate variables starting with the least painful to swap out.

xnappo

Argh. Sleep mode, sounds like another complication. And the cables sure seem like a wild card, based on the reviews. Thanks for the input, though. Now I have improved my search methods and also read further into the 8300 manual. They advise a hard drive should have no switch and should power up on being plugged in. If I lose power, the Freeagent Pro will not power back up on its own when power is restored, I tried it. Granted I could buy a UPS for my 8300 and the Seagate, but that won't cure the sleep problem. I think I will go back to the drawing board (and the chart). The chart seems real short considering the length of this thread. Now to find a tutorial on selecting components and building an external hard drive.

Defeating the sleep mode isn't a big deal though the weird connector at the Chasis base may be.

On the strength of the freeagent working in a similar ap for TiVo users, the fact that I already bought the unit and the local Costco is an hour away and that no HD I've ever bought was big enough in the end, I'm sending for a SIIG cable (www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812191016) to try as others have used it successfully with the Freeagent.

This will probably take a week or so to get. Pittpa: if you haven't yet returned your Freeagent, I'll be happy to let you know if I manage to get mine to work.

Has anyone here tried the Siig cable? I'm not trying to start one of those audiophile "does cable matter" debates. There is chatter all over the net about some ESata cables just like some HDMI cables simply not working reliably.

Has anyone here tried the Siig cable? I'm not trying to start one of those audiophile "does cable matter" debates. There is chatter all over the net about some ESata cables just like some HDMI cables simply not working reliably.

I seem to remember the Tivo guys having a problem with the cable that comes with that drive. I think it may have been once where the connector was too short for most ports.

xnappo

Hmm that is a bummer since others have been successful with it. The good news is since you bought something that is specifically for DVRs you should be able to get support from WD. It could be a bad cable or a bad drive. One person I remember actually DID have a bad box too. For me I live close to a TWC customer service building, so I would temporarily try another box... I guess just try to eliminate variables starting with the least painful to swap out.

xnappo

Yep,

That would be me with the bad box. Had glitches and early termination of recordings. After trying several cables, HD's and enclosures I finally traded in the old box for a new box and have had perfect recordings ever since.

Thank god I was able to re-task all that extra hardware I bought.

SA8300HD boxes start screwing up as drive gets filled. When I added my eSATA, all problems stopped. getting a new, empty box will solve issues in the same way.

I seem to remember the Tivo guys having a problem with the cable that comes with that drive. I think it may have been once where the connector was too short for most ports.

xnappo

actually, no sata cable comes with it. I'm theorizing that one problem is that many then buy the cheapest cable on the net and that can lead to problems.

actually, no sata cable comes with it. I'm theorizing that one problem is that many then buy the cheapest cable on the net and that can lead to problems.
No cable is better than a cheap one that the buyer would be lulled into using. But you're right, some would complain and buy the cheapest they could find. While others would be glad their money for the enclosure wasn't wasted on an inferior cable and promptly go out and get a good one.

I will look for Hilo Harrys' report, but I returned my Seagate Freeagent Pro to Costco. I was less than optimistic about it and did not want to have to modify it. The Siig cable would have been my choice if I had opted to buy one from Newegg. The Apricorn comes with a cable, so the overall cost is little more than the Seagate. I will miss the 5-year warranty on the Seagate. The Seagate eSata 7200 external drive also looks promising, with 5 positive results.

Ok, I am new to this and have some ?'s. I am TWC Hudson Valley with the Passport software. If I were to buy, say the Apricon DVR Xpander 500g what exactly would I loose. Would it only be while watching live tv pause, rewind, and fastforward wouldn't work? Or will I not be able to fast forward through commercial breaks on the shows I record or hit the replay button when I miss something quick.
I would love to expand the recording capacity but if I loose this for non live stuff maybe its not for me.

Ok, I am new to this and have some ?'s. I am TWC Hudson Valley with the Passport software. If I were to buy, say the Apricon DVR Xpander 500g what exactly would I loose. Would it only be while watching live tv pause, rewind, and fastforward wouldn't work? Or will I not be able to fast forward through commercial breaks on the shows I record or hit the replay button when I miss something quick.
I would love to expand the recording capacity but if I loose this for non live stuff maybe its not for me.

First, it a VERY good idea to put system, box, software, and location as a signature (like me). All are really critical to getting a decent answer. If you hadn't listed what you did I wouldn't even bother to respond, I got sick of always seeming to post a question to a question!).

Yes you would be hit with the "trick play" bug. No RR or FF for recordings that you "live pause." Live pause means working from the one hour buffer.

This does NOT happen with a recorded program, that is NOT coming from the buffer.

I tend to pause live a LOT, so this is significant for me. Others ONLY watch from a recording, so it matters not.

I just bought a fancy new surge protector, so I'll need to unplug all my electronics from my old one. I'm not going to lose my recordings when I uplug my WD Expander and my 8300 STB, am I?

Thanks,
Harold

I just bought a fancy new surge protector, so I'll need to unplug all my electronics from my old one. I'm not going to lose my recordings when I uplug my WD Expander and my 8300 STB, am I?

Thanks,
Harold
Harold, you need to turn the 8300HD off at the front power switch. Next, remove AC power from the box - unplugging it from the outlet works. After doing those things, you can power down the external drive. Do the external drive's power cord first and power it up. Then, plug the 8300HD into the surge suppressor and power it up. After booting, turn it on. If all went well - :D there are no guarantees - you should see a text message that says something to the effect of "your external drive is now working." YOu may need to hit a button on the remote to acknowledge that.

Make sure the data cable is securely plugged into both the drive and DVR. Good luck!

Ok, thanks, Pepar. Should get the new surge protector next wk. I'll cross my fingers.

H

First, it a VERY good idea to put system, box, software, and location as a signature (like me). All are really critical to getting a decent answer. If you hadn't listed what you did I wouldn't even bother to respond, I got sick of always seeming to post a question to a question!).

Yes you would be hit with the "trick play" bug. No RR or FF for recordings that you "live pause." Live pause means working from the one hour buffer.

This does NOT happen with a recorded program, that is NOT coming from the buffer.

I tend to pause live a LOT, so this is significant for me. Others ONLY watch from a recording, so it matters not.

Thanks for the response. What if when you're just watching live tv and you may want to be able to pause, replay etc, you unplug the external drive or power it off? Would this bring it back to normal behavior or just cause problems? As long as I'm able to fast forward, rewind, pause, and replay recorded shows/movies I think I'd be fine but I do on occasion hit pause on live tv to go do something or hit replay.

Thanks for the response. What if when you're just watching live tv and you may want to be able to pause, replay etc, you unplug the external drive or power it off? Would this bring it back to normal behavior or just cause problems? As long as I'm able to fast forward, rewind, pause, and replay recorded shows/movies I think I'd be fine but I do on occasion hit pause on live tv to go do something or hit replay.

That does not sound like a really workable solution... and quite possibly may cause other unexpected consequences (like for whatever reason you CAN'T get the external drive to be recognized).

One "work-around" that I don't want to use is to make an actual recording when you want to "pause live." I tried it once or twice and found major issues (the "recording" only had the already viewed content, it stopped at the point I stopped watching the live... so it's more complicated than simply hitting the record button, there must a few more button presses (ya gotta do a few "other" things for that scheme to work)).

Yes, those functions should work 5/5 for previously recorded content.

R_G,

Instead of hitting the Record button, have you tried selecting it from the guide and then setting it to record? I'm not talking about scheduling it ahead of time. I'm talking about while you are watching, bring up the guide and select Record from there. I don't know if this might make a difference and enable you to get the whole buffer and not end early. I don't have Passport, so this is just a thought.

Just wanted to post here now that i got my external eSata drive working. I've been lurking ever since I switched to TWC here in MNanhattan last month and initially purchased a Seagate Free Agent 500 Gig eSata/Usb 2.0 drive. I tried and tried, but had no luck with the Seagate. The 8300 HDC would see the drive, but report that it was "bad". End of story. I tried a bunch of times with different cables, etc. but no luck. I had a friend that needed an external, so it gave me the excuse to try again with the Western Digital 500 GB MyDVD Expander. It arrived this morning( i ordered it direct from Western Digital) and i had it up and running in about 5 minutes. Reported space used went from 38% to 9% after reboot. I am able to pause, ff and rewind live tv with no problems. (the screen does go blank for a few seconds when i first hit pause, but then no delays after that). The WD drive, btw, is a lot cooler and comes with a very solid esata cable. It also is easy on the eyes, unlike the seagate which looked like a pumpkin with its bright orange light.

Since I just got it this morning, I'll have to post about any glitches (hopefully there will be minimal) later, but wanted to get my results posted for other TWC NYC people who are on Digital Navigator and are unsure what drive will work.

tjw00

Since I just got it this morning, I'll have to post about any glitches (hopefully there will be minimal) later, but wanted to get my results posted for other TWC NYC people who are on Digital Navigator and are unsure what drive will work.

tjw00

Thanks for the report and DB entry. Can you do me a favor and also put in your failure too?

xnappo

Thanks for all the info riverside guy. Its a big help. Is there one drive/enclosure that is above the rest when it comes to smooth sailing? I'm thinking 500gb because of price. I like the Apricorn in the fact that it matches the dvr. Also, I read something about studdering when the drive reaches 70% full. Is that still a problem?

Thanks for the report and DB entry. Can you do me a favor and also put in your failure too?

xnappo

ok, done. Also added my navigator version to both.

btw, thanks for the site!

ok, done. Also added my navigator version to both.

btw, thanks for the site!

No problem - thanks a lot.

xnappo

The Apricorn case solved the glitching I was getting with the Rosewell. The Apricorn enclosure is what I would now recommend.

Tony


Well, still getting glitches even with the DB35. As was suggested on this forum, it might be the Rosewell enclosure. I'm going to give it a try now with the Apricorn as was recommend here (and good new is that it now has a $15 rebate)

I'll post my results with with the Apricorn (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817362002) / Seagate DB35 in a couple of weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony57
I have a Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 on order. This drive is supposed to be opimized for DVR's ("The 500GB DB35 7200.3 3.5" Disc Drive for DVRs redefines value for high-capacity systems and delivers performance optimized for DVR storage and optimization.")

I should have it in a couple of days and I'll post my results after I give it a workout.

The Apricorn case solved the glitching I was getting with the Rosewell. The Apricorn enclosure is what I would now recommend.

Tony


Congrats on success! Sorry it took you a few tries to get there, but at least you did! Please update the database with your passing/failing cases when you get a chance.

xnappo

The Apricorn case solved the glitching I was getting with the Rosewell. The Apricorn enclosure is what I would now recommend.

.

What kind of "glitching", specifically, were you getting from the Rosewill case?

I have the Rosewill, get sound dropouts and occassional pixelization glitches. Not sure, however, if that is coming from HD feed.

That is exactly what I was getting with the rosewill (sound dropouts and pixelization glitches.) It wasn't too bad, about 1 glitch evey 30 minutes or so. I've only had about 2 glitches over 20 hours with the Apricorn.


What kind of "glitching", specifically, were you getting from the Rosewill case?

I have the Rosewill, get sound dropouts and occassional pixelization glitches. Not sure, however, if that is coming from HD feed.

A weired problem just started happening.

I have an apricorn enclosure with a 320GB WD drive. It worked flawlessly for about 2 months.

Now every once in a while the recorded program I'm watching will freeze and the red HD indicator light on the external HD goes out then after anywhere from 1 - 5 seconds the light goes back on and the recorded program I'm watching will continue to play.

This happened 3 or 4 times while recording and watching. 3 times when it happened the recordings in progress were fine and one time the recorded program terminated early.

When the DVR is off (in standby or not recording) I have not seen the external HD light go out which tends to point to the 8300 causing it.

Anyone notice anything similure with there setups?

Anyone notice anything similure with there setups?

I hate to ask, but if you can put your ear to it does it back 'bad' clicking noises while this happens?

xnappo

Im in Queens, NY wwith a 8300HD SA running passport.

Im curious as to if we have the same setup. You have something called "navigator" but my box doesnt say that. Is WDG1S5000 the model number of what you purchased.

Have you had any problems thus far?


Thanks.


Just wanted to post here now that i got my external eSata drive working. I've been lurking ever since I switched to TWC here in MNanhattan last month and initially purchased a Seagate Free Agent 500 Gig eSata/Usb 2.0 drive. I tried and tried, but had no luck with the Seagate. The 8300 HDC would see the drive, but report that it was "bad". End of story. I tried a bunch of times with different cables, etc. but no luck. I had a friend that needed an external, so it gave me the excuse to try again with the Western Digital 500 GB MyDVD Expander. It arrived this morning( i ordered it direct from Western Digital) and i had it up and running in about 5 minutes. Reported space used went from 38% to 9% after reboot. I am able to pause, ff and rewind live tv with no problems. (the screen does go blank for a few seconds when i first hit pause, but then no delays after that). The WD drive, btw, is a lot cooler and comes with a very solid esata cable. It also is easy on the eyes, unlike the seagate which looked like a pumpkin with its bright orange light.

Since I just got it this morning, I'll have to post about any glitches (hopefully there will be minimal) later, but wanted to get my results posted for other TWC NYC people who are on Digital Navigator and are unsure what drive will work.

tjw00

ok..so I purchased a Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT SATA Backup & External Storage System and a Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM and it has been working since last February but now my Cablevision DVR does not recognize the drive anymore. It keeps coming up with an error message which says to check cables and power of the external drive and that it has not been connected properly.

Any advice?

I would contact Apricorn Tech Support for their help. My Apricorn ext drive worked great for me initially, but I had three device failures in 4 months, that were due to the power supplies, rather than the drives.

Apricorn was very good about quick replacements, but after the third failure, they offered me the option of a refund, or another replacment. I elected for a refund, which they processed within 24 hours of the return of my unit. I believe that they are apparently having a quality issue with the supplies, which manifests itself in several failure characteristics, including the one you described.

I subsequently bought a Rosewill RX-358-S, with another WD 500gb drive, and it has been working flawlessly (knock on wood) for a little over a month, so far.

I hate to ask, but if you can put your ear to it does it back 'bad' clicking noises while this happens?

xnappo

No clicking noise (like a dieing or dead drive) but what was weired was when I booted the 8300 it counted down (entirly re-loaded the software) and the drive would spin up then wind down several times until the 8300 came back up. The drive was there and the programs were all intact. Then I rebooted again and it booted normaly.

I'm a NYC area Cablevision subscriber. I have a 2 yr old SA 8300HD DVR with it's default 160GB drive.
I just attached a 500GB external drive - Beyond Micro BM500MD3CS16M 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache USB 2.0 / eSATA External Hard Drive (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822709031).
I unplugged the 8300HD, attached the drive with it's included cables, booted the external drive, plugged the 8300HD back in, when it came back onscreen it asked if I wanted to format the external drive, I selected yes, waited about 5 minutes, left the external drive powered on , rebooted the 8300HD without unplugging it, and when the 8300HD was back on, it showed my hard drive usage had dropped from 55% to 12% without any of my programs erased. My scheduled recording list is intact; the unit has just recorded 2 shows tonite without any problems. So far so good.

6 days later...still not seeing any problems after a week of many recorded and watched shows
Sorry, but I didn't attach the external drive to my PC first, so I don't what drive is in this enclosure.
A few Newegg reviewers reported theirs held a Hitachi drive.

That is exactly what I was getting with the rosewill (sound dropouts and pixelization glitches.) It wasn't too bad, about 1 glitch evey 30 minutes or so. I've only had about 2 glitches over 20 hours with the Apricorn.

A few questions:

What's the exact model of the Apricorn (where did you get it, how much)? Did you use the same drive and just exchange cases? What drive are you using? Why, anyway, would the -case- cause dropouts or glitches? :confused:

I'm getting pixelation and audio glitches with my Apricorn enclosure. I've tried both the WD 500 AAKS and the samsung spinpoint and with 2 different ESata cables and I get the same problems.

I know its a playback thing and not a recording error, because I can rewind and not see the same glitch.

Any thoughts? If I exchange my Explorer will the new one recognize my existing recordings?

I hate to ask, but if you can put your ear to it does it back 'bad' clicking noises while this happens?

xnappo
I have a wierd issue w/ clicking noises. If I turn the 8300HD off, my 500GB Seagate eSATA (forgot the model #, not a 'Freeagent') will make a single clicking noise every 5 minutes. It also happens if I'm watching something on-demand or anything that's not recordable.
If I leave the box on, no clicks, and everything seems fine. No glitches during playback, FF and REW is ok, etc...

Any ideas anyone? :confused:

Thx

I'm getting pixelation and audio glitches with my Apricorn enclosure. I've tried both the WD 500 AAKS and the samsung spinpoint and with 2 different ESata cables and I get the same problems.

I know its a playback thing and not a recording error, because I can rewind and not see the same glitch.

Any thoughts? If I exchange my Explorer will the new one recognize my existing recordings?

If you disconnect the drive you definately don't get glitches? You have tried two good drive candidates and have one of the best cases... So if you are sure that it does NOT glitch with the drive disconnected I can only advise you to double check your cables are plugged in well, and then to try swapping boxes.

xnappo

I have a wierd issue w/ clicking noises. If I turn the 8300HD off, my 500GB Seagate eSATA (forgot the model #, not a 'Freeagent') will make a single clicking noise every 5 minutes. It also happens if I'm watching something on-demand or anything that's not recordable.
If I leave the box on, no clicks, and everything seems fine. No glitches during playback, FF and REW is ok, etc...

Any ideas anyone? :confused:
Just one: While I can't address the conditions under which you hear that click, I can tell you that clicking is *never* a noise you want to hear from a hard drive.

If you disconnect the drive you definately don't get glitches? You have tried two good drive candidates and have one of the best cases... So if you are sure that it does NOT glitch with the drive disconnected I can only advise you to double check your cables are plugged in well, and then to try swapping boxes.

xnappo


No, no glitches when viewing straight from the box.

How much room for error is there with the ESata connection? I figured it would either work or not, but the connection to the Explorer always seems a little loose compared to the apricorn enclosure.

No, no glitches when viewing straight from the box.

How much room for error is there with the ESata connection? I figured it would either work or not, but the connection to the Explorer always seems a little loose compared to the apricorn enclosure.

Well, there have been problems with some cables, but the Apricorn cable has worked for most people...

xnappo

No clicking noise (like a dieing or dead drive) but what was weired was when I booted the 8300 it counted down (entirly re-loaded the software) and the drive would spin up then wind down several times until the 8300 came back up. The drive was there and the programs were all intact. Then I rebooted again and it booted normaly.

Just had another weird thing happen last night. I was recording 2 HD programs and watching a recorded show for about 3 hours last night. the box worked fine for 2 hours and 55 minutes then at 10:55 the box just rebooted for no apperent reason. The box came back up in the normal fashion and the ext. drive did not shut down (did not click, spin up and down as previously (it stayed on and ran constant).

So the problems now are

1. Picture freezes and external drive light goes out for 3-5 secs then comes back on and the program continues to play.

2. When I did reboot, the ext. drive spins up and then down and now clicks when it spins back up until the box finishes rebooting. When its done rebooting you can continue to watch and record until the next time it happens (Usually once or twice in a 3 hour period.

3. The box rebooted for no apperent reason.

I'm not sure if I should Reformat the drive in a PC then run chkdsk, replace the box or replace the drive.

Anyone have any opinions on what I should do?

TWC Hudson Valley-NY
Explorer 8300HD Passport
With either the WD my VDR expander or the Apricorn DVR Xpander will i have the live tv bugs (ie ff and rw)?
And they are a bout the same price is one better than the other?

TWC Hudson Valley-NY
Explorer 8300HD Passport
With either the WD my VDR expander or the Apricorn DVR Xpander will i have the live tv bugs (ie ff and rw)?
And they are a bout the same price is one better than the other?
As I understand it, w/Passport, yes, w/Sara, no.

Can't say if one device is better than the other, I've had the WD drive for a few wks now w/no problems.

H

Just one: While I can't address the conditions under which you hear that click, I can tell you that clicking is *never* a noise you want to hear from a hard drive.
Indeed, clicking is a sure sign of imminent HD failure. Clicking is bad.

Indeed, clicking is a sure sign of imminent HD failure. Clicking is bad.
The dreaded "el clic de la muerte." ;)

If you disconnect the drive you definately don't get glitches? You have tried two good drive candidates and have one of the best cases... So if you are sure that it does NOT glitch with the drive disconnected I can only advise you to double check your cables are plugged in well, and then to try swapping boxes.

xnappo


I'll reseat the cables tonight.

Any idea whether a new 8300 will recognize my existing recordings?

Also, does the fact that I have the 8240 rather than the 8300 make a difference?

Thanks!

I'll reseat the cables tonight.
Any idea whether a new 8300 will recognize my existing recordings?

Sadly no. Last time I had to transition boxes I just rented a second box for 20 days or so until I was caught up.

I'll reseat the cables tonight.
Also, does the fact that I have the 8240 rather than the 8300 make a difference?

Not sure - I don't have much experience there. Anyone else know?

Regards,
xnappo

I just received my WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB SATA 3.0Gb/s with KingWin Jet external enclosure. I paid $133 + $9 s/h. Probably don't have much (if any) warranty though. (MWAVE isn't an "authorized" dealer of WD drives as far as I can tell).

Drive was $103, case $30 and it has a fan, USB, and SATA ports. It included AC adapter and both cables!

gp

2wk update: Everything works O.K. but there are a couple of glitches....

I think the enclosure I bought does a poor job of cooling -- despite the fan inside. I might be wrong because I'm basing my observation off another poster who used a fanless enclosure with the WD5000AAKS. He said his maintained 73-75 degrees. I hope I remember wrong because mine clearly feels warm to the touch. I would guess the case is around 100 degrees.

I disassembled and cut more venting but can't see that helped much. The internal fan has it's own enclosure that's touch to modify. I'm wondering if a different enclosure would be safer -- especially considering my purchase location.

Also notice occasional decompression errors during playback. Not sure if the ext drive blips occasionally, or the enclosure's bus, or the original program content. I've only seen this on 2 or 3 of 20 recordings. Of course, some of those would be on the int drive and some on the new one. In general, I have to conclude successful operation.

(Also, buffering still works with my SARA software).

gp

Cincinnati, OH
SA 8300HD Passport
Cavalry 500GB - USB 2.0 & eSATA Dual Interface 7200RPM External Hard Drive Kit

http://www.buy.com/prod/cavalry-500gb-usb-2-0-esata-dual-interface-7200rpm-external-hard-drive/q/loc/101/203268361.html

From the diagnostic menu it says my SATA port is enabled. When I cold boot everything--nothing happens. Nothing at all. The box for the drive says it has been formatted for PC NTFS for your convenience.

Time Warner has been a nightmare this would be one ray of light in the storm if I could get this to work. Thank you so much!

EDIT: Sorry, I went OP and found the results database. I give full and props to his guy:

tbernstein writes:

Didn't recognize drive at first after multiple reboots. Tried turning off and on as recommended in the forum. That didn't work. Finally was about to give up and when I turned it off, the DVR finally recognized the drive. The only thing I did differently was open, and then close the diagnostic menus before turning off the drive.

I turned it back on, got the format question, and everything worked great.

THANKS, IT TOOK LITERALLY 30 SECONDS TO SET THIS UP, HOPEFULLY IT WORKS GOOD. Sorry for the caps, I'm giddy!

-TK

-Tony

Also, does the fact that I have the 8240 rather than the 8300 make a difference?Shouldn't, but we never say never. :) Pure and simple, the 8240 is an 8300 without the "analog" tuner parts. They both use the same software and have the same chipsets, etc. Because of the missing analog tuner, they are also cheaper. Cox started using them when they went all digital with their digital simulcast.

Just had another weird thing happen last night. I was recording 2 HD programs and watching a recorded show for about 3 hours last night. the box worked fine for 2 hours and 55 minutes then at 10:55 the box just rebooted for no apperent reason. The box came back up in the normal fashion and the ext. drive did not shut down (did not click, spin up and down as previously (it stayed on and ran constant).

So the problems now are

1. Picture freezes and external drive light goes out for 3-5 secs then comes back on and the program continues to play.

2. When I did reboot, the ext. drive spins up and then down and now clicks when it spins back up until the box finishes rebooting. When its done rebooting you can continue to watch and record until the next time it happens (Usually once or twice in a 3 hour period.

3. The box rebooted for no apperent reason.

I'm not sure if I should Reformat the drive in a PC then run chkdsk, replace the box or replace the drive.

Anyone have any opinions on what I should do?

I recommend that you call, or email to Apricorn Tech Support. If you saw my last post, I went through the whole scenario with my Apricorn unit. I would bet money you are experiencing a failing power supply on your unit, but even if it isn't, they are in the best position to resolve your problem.

Hi.

Just a small note to thank you xnappo for maintaining the results database.

Before finding it, I started with a "classic" Vantec + Seagate 500GB 7200.10. No problem until I bought my HDTV...

After consulting the database, I bought an Antec MX-1 case (did not have to but did not feel like swapping disks until the Seagate was empty) and a Western Digital 500GB disk. I probably had only two small glitches in over two weeks and life is beautiful once again. And way more quieter too with this combo.

To keep the ball rolling, I also added my results in the database. Hopefully, one day we'll know the real reason why everyone has problem with the Seagate hard disks.

So thanks again and keep it up.

Those databases have been of tremendous help to this thread, certainly better than my initial feeble attempt to summarize things, and if there were an AVS Hall Of Fame, xnappo would be in it. This has got to be one of the most difficult threads to keep track of and those databases make it a breeze.

Kudos also need to go to all those who have added their experiences to make the databases what they are.

I recommend that you call, or email to Apricorn Tech Support. If you saw my last post, I went through the whole scenario with my Apricorn unit. I would bet money you are experiencing a failing power supply on your unit, but even if it isn't, they are in the best position to resolve your problem.

I actually took the drive out of the apricorn and tested it in my PC and windows could partition it but could not format it. All I got was a windows could not access drive error. I wound up going back to my epower enclosure and putting in a new WD 500GB drive and everything is back to normal. I recorded 2 HD programs while watching one recorded program for 3 hours last night and had no problems. It looks like this drive is going back to WD for RMA replacement.

I do suspect that the apricorn enclosure may have had something to do with the drives failure the way it would just power off the way it did so I'll be sending that back as well.

Those databases have been of tremendous help to this thread, certainly better than my initial feeble attempt to summarize things, and if there were an AVS Hall Of Fame, xnappo would be in it. This has got to be one of the most difficult threads to keep track of and those databases make it a breeze.

Aww shucks thanks guys :)


Kudos also need to go to all those who have added their experiences to make the databases what they are.

Agreed - honestly I don't do all that much now that they are set up! I DO appreciate it when people make their entries nice and pretty and matching other entries naming conventions so I don't have to clean up!

Thanks to everyone for their entries!
xnappo

Agreed - honestly I don't do all that much now that they are set up! I DO appreciate it when people make their entries nice and pretty and matching other entries naming conventions so I don't have to clean up!I don't care what anyone says, but I know just how much work it is to come here every day and ask folks to add their data to the database, not to mention cleaning it up afterward. Granted, it's not physically or mentally demanding, but it's something that needs to be done regularly and not everyone will commit to that. Many come here, post a couple of times and then leave until they face their next problem. Very few take to time to participate and those who do make these forums/threads what they are, so don't sell yourself short. :)

Im in Queens, NY wwith a 8300HD SA running passport.

Im curious as to if we have the same setup. You have something called "navigator" but my box doesnt say that. Is WDG1S5000 the model number of what you purchased.

Have you had any problems thus far?


Thanks.

Yes, WDG1S5000 is the one I have. Couldn't find it in retail stores, so I ordered direct from Western Digital. My 8300 HDC is not runing passport, but Digital Navigator. I'm no expert so some others with a lot more experience on the difference may want to chime in (also, there's a long thread on TWC Digital NAvigator here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830) that i found very helpful.)

I've not had any problems so far with the External drive. Works quite well, with no glitches, so far. (knock on wood)

tjw00

Just one: While I can't address the conditions under which you hear that click, I can tell you that clicking is *never* a noise you want to hear from a hard drive.

Might be better to say LOUD clicking. Normal operation of a HDD always includes some level of clicking, but generally of a soft, almost feminine nature.

Those databases have been of tremendous help to this thread, certainly better than my initial feeble attempt to summarize things, and if there were an AVS Hall Of Fame, xnappo would be in it. This has got to be one of the most difficult threads to keep track of and those databases make it a breeze.

Kudos also need to go to all those who have added their experiences to make the databases what they are.

Agree 100%, except TWC should be PAYING him for doing it! After all, it's their totally crappy software that causes such a DB to have to be available and maintained.

Might be better to say LOUD clicking. Normal operation of a HDD always includes some level of clicking, but generally of a soft, almost feminine nature.
Yes. The OP used "weird" and "clicking" in the same sentence, which led me to believe it was something more than - to use your wonderful imagery - the sound of 1" vibrant red fingernails tapping on the stem of a martini glass. ;)

While waiting for my Esata cable to get here, my 8300HD has started to record some HD programs with extreme video and audio distortion. Its as though the picture and sound are both tearing. Its constant enough that the programs are painful to watch.

The unit's drive is near filled up which of course is why I'm adding an external. Have others had this problem? Fragmentation? Buffer underrun? Any solution?

I can't start testing a new drive while there is an existing issue. Too many variables.

(TW-Sara 8300HD, planning to try to crack the FreeAgent mystery.)

Sadly no. Last time I had to transition boxes I just rented a second box for 20 days or so until I was caught up.


Not sure - I don't have much experience there. Anyone else know?

Regards,
xnappo



Thanks xnappo.

Reseating the cables didn't do much. I'd hate to switch boxes right away and lose all my recordings. Have their been reports of Apricorn cases causing the glitches? I'll probably try that next. Is there another good case that you recommend, rather than trying a new Apricorn?

Thanks!

this is a monster thread but very useful. I have only read sporadic pages concerningvantec nexstar 3 and then threads from last two pages. It seems to me the much beloved Apricorn enclosure is begining to show some failure or quirks base on some recent posts, or is it just me? Looking at the database, I would say people have been using the vantec nexstar 3 almost as much as apricorn with success, as long as it is with WD caviar16 drive. is this safe to say and anyone want to chime in on the longevity of the vantec/WD combo or apricorn enclosures? What about the calvary external drives which uses WD caviar16 inside. I see two success on the database, but anyone care to report any long term issues/success?

I have a wierd issue w/ clicking noises. If I turn the 8300HD off, my 500GB Seagate eSATA (forgot the model #, not a 'Freeagent') will make a single clicking noise every 5 minutes. It also happens if I'm watching something on-demand or anything that's not recordable.
If I leave the box on, no clicks, and everything seems fine. No glitches during playback, FF and REW is ok, etc...

Any ideas anyone? :confused:

Thx
Just one: While I can't address the conditions under which you hear that click, I can tell you that clicking is *never* a noise you want to hear from a hard drive.
That's the first thing I thought.
I say it's a wierd problem because it only happens when the box is off...or when watching stuff that's not buffered/recordable, like on-demand.

That's the first thing I thought.
I say it's a wierd problem because it only happens when the box is off...or when watching stuff that's not buffered/recordable, like on-demand.Based on a comment someone else made, it sounds to me like the external drive is trying to establish a connection to the main unit. It keeps trying because the main unit is off and you hear the clicking. When the main is on, there is no clicking becasue there is a connection. That also makes me think it's not the drive itself doing the clicking per se, at least not like the heads were hitting the disks or something.

this is a monster thread but very useful. I have only read sporadic pages concerningvantec nexstar 3 and then threads from last two pages. It seems to me the much beloved Apricorn enclosure is begining to show some failure or quirks base on some recent posts, or is it just me? Looking at the database, I would say people have been using the vantec nexstar 3 almost as much as apricorn with success, as long as it is with WD caviar16 drive. is this safe to say and anyone want to chime in on the longevity of the vantec/WD combo or apricorn enclosures? What about the calvary external drives which uses WD caviar16 inside. I see two success on the database, but anyone care to report any long term issues/success?

I'm one of the successes with the 500GB Cavalry drive and can report no issues whatever so far, which is a happy thing now that we are well into college football season. Keep an eye on buy.com - they occasionally offer it under $100 AR.

Thanks xnappo.

Reseating the cables didn't do much. I'd hate to switch boxes right away and lose all my recordings. Have their been reports of Apricorn cases causing the glitches? I'll probably try that next. Is there another good case that you recommend, rather than trying a new Apricorn?

Thanks!

Sorry - the Apricorn is really the most successful case out there. You could try swapping for another Apricorn - however I think it is unlikely that is the problem. I know it isn't free - but here another box is only $8 a month. You could start recording things on the other box until your old one is cleared out and then try that...

If you had any other combination of drive/case I would suggest that was the problem - but you are using the most successful combo...

Of course I am only guess here - no guarantees!

xnappo

Based on a comment someone else made, it sounds to me like the external drive is trying to establish a connection to the main unit. It keeps trying because the main unit is off and you hear the clicking. When the main is on, there is no clicking becasue there is a connection. That also makes me think it's not the drive itself doing the clicking per se, at least not like the heads were hitting the disks or something.
I didn't know that drives initiated the dialog. I thought that the controller polled attached devices. :confused:

I didn't know that drives initiated the dialog. I thought that the controller polled attached devices. :confused:I have no idea, but the fact that turning the box on stops the clicking (along with a similar comment by someone else) seems to say that some sort of handshake or something is taking place, doesn't it?

I have no idea, but the fact that turning the box on stops the clicking (along with a similar comment by someone else) seems to say that some sort of handshake or something is taking place, doesn't it?
Sure, that's broad enough to agree with. ;)

Sure, that's broad enough to agree with. ;)Anything I can do to get you to agree with me. :)

I know it isn't free - but here another box is only $8 a month. You could start recording things on the other box until your old one is cleared out and then try that...
xnappo

You may wan't to check with your cable co first about a temperary additional DVR.

I inquired to my cable co (Cablevision North Jersey) about it and they wanted to charge me $9.99 a month for an additional DVR service and $6.99 a month for the second DVR box rental.

You may wan't to check with your cable co first about a temperary additional DVR.

I inquired to my cable co (Cablevision North Jersey) about it and they wanted to charge me $9.99 a month for an additional DVR service and $6.99 a month for the second DVR box rental.AFAIK, that's the way it is here too, only it's a total of $23, which is way to steep if you ask me.

AFAIK, that's the way it is here too, only it's a total of $23, which is way to steep if you ask me.
Dickering may be an option. A friend here on Comcast who's got two boxes and premium packages went to them and got one more for free as part of a promotion. He claims he can "renew" the promotion every six months, though that sounds to good to be true. I believe he "mentioned" satellite in passing during his "negotiations" with them.

...the sound of 1" vibrant red fingernails tapping on the stem of a martini glass. ;)

Talk about imagery... you nailed that one!

You may wan't to check with your cable co first about a temperary additional DVR.

I inquired to my cable co (Cablevision North Jersey) about it and they wanted to charge me $9.99 a month for an additional DVR service and $6.99 a month for the second DVR box rental.

Indeed I have thought about a second 8300HD... but they DO charge 7 and change for a STB and undoubtedly would charge the DVR fee (10 bucks), so I'd expect about an additional 18 bucks per month. I had "decided" that my next TV would be cable card quipped, but my fave brand this year is going QAM tuners in all sets, but no sets w/cable card slots!

You may wan't to check with your cable co first about a temperary additional DVR.

I inquired to my cable co (Cablevision North Jersey) about it and they wanted to charge me $9.99 a month for an additional DVR service and $6.99 a month for the second DVR box rental.
I'm really curious; what is the logic / reason behind charging extra for the privilege of recording ("the DVR service"), other than it gives the cableco an additional revenue stream? If they feel justified in charging more for a DVR box over a non-DVR box, why not just charge $17 for the box and service, instead of separating them? Do they actually incur an expense when you record?

Thanks,
Cactus

I'm really curious; what is the logic / reason behind charging extra for the privilege of recording ("the DVR service"), other than it gives the cableco an additional revenue stream? If they feel justified in charging more for a DVR box over a non-DVR box, why not just charge $17 for the box and service, instead of separating them? Do they actually incur an expense when you record?

Thanks,
Cactus

You will likely use more bandwidth if you record but a good answer would necessitate a discussion of how tech businesses operate.

When you buy a computer program as a download for eighty bucks the direct costs to the seller have minimal relationship to their cost of transferring it to you.

When a new trendy cell phone costs four hundred and a year later is given away with a two year contract, its not that the cost of the parts went down to nothing.