8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! [Text View] - Page 24

davehancock

10-04-07, 06:32 PM

You will likely use more bandwidth if you record but a good answer would necessitate a discussion of how tech businesses operate.Don't understand your bandwidth logic here. There is no increase in bandwidth taken just by recording a program, instead of watching it.

The rationale for these fees is that the boxes cost money, you are essentially renting them. The DVRs cost quite a bit more money than non-DVR STBs, so more money. Besides, TiVo created a business model charging monthly fees for program guides - cable is adopting that model (though you could argue the service).

danki6x

10-04-07, 06:55 PM

I'm really curious; what is the logic / reason behind charging extra for the privilege of recording ("the DVR service"), other than it gives the cableco an additional revenue stream? If they feel justified in charging more for a DVR box over a non-DVR box, why not just charge $17 for the box and service, instead of separating them? Do they actually incur an expense when you record?

Thanks,
Cactus
I thought the "service" was the guide that is used to program what you want to watch. Here the box is the same rent as a non-DVR box and of course with the harddrive inside is more expensive and problem prone.
Dan

pepar

10-04-07, 07:01 PM

Don't understand your bandwidth logic here. There is no increase in bandwidth taken just by recording a program, instead of watching it.
Don't know that the add'l $$$ for this is anything more than "because they can" but DVRs have two tuners and that means twice the data. YMMV, but we often are watching something while recording something else.

BIGA$$TV

10-04-07, 07:41 PM

Don't know that the add'l $$$ for this is anything more than "because they can" but DVRs have two tuners and that means twice the data. YMMV, but we often are watching something while recording something else.

Ding, ding, ding. Exactly. Companies charge additional fees because they can. And they can because customers feel they are getting something of value for their money. Personally, I'd probably pay double what I'm now paying for my DVR, but please don't tell my cable co.

ps. and don't forget the hard drive cost as well as the extra service calls because the boxes are less trouble free than a plain STB.

Hilo Hairy

10-04-07, 08:06 PM

Don't understand your bandwidth logic here. There is no increase in bandwidth taken just by recording a program, instead of watching it.

Don't we all record some programs that we end up not watching and record and watch programs that without timeshifting, we'd have to miss?

davehancock

10-04-07, 08:14 PM

Don't we all record some programs that we end up not watching and record and watch programs that without timeshifting, we'd have to miss?Sure do, is that what you meant? I thought you were talking about cable bandwidth coming in, and couldn't see that.

CZ Eddie

10-04-07, 08:41 PM

I just tried my freeagent ( freeagentpro) 500GB that I got earlier today and no sort of fiddling at all could make it format. I just got the error that something was wrong with the device.

Going to print out the known-working list and take it back to the store with me now and make sure I get the RIGHT drive/enclosure.

Btw, I couldn't figure out how to remove the hard drive from the enclosure. Not without deforming the enclosure anyway.

redsandvb

10-04-07, 09:03 PM

That also makes me think it's not the drive itself doing the clicking per se, at least not like the heads were hitting the disks or something.
I sure hope so...:)

sanitystream

10-05-07, 01:02 PM

I'll reseat the cables tonight.

Also, does the fact that I have the 8240 rather than the 8300 make a difference?

Thanks!

This is a good question. I had an 8240 hooked up to a Western Digital DVR Expander via eSata and kept getting glitches every 2-3 minutes. I then bought an Apricorn Xpander and saw the same glitches, so I knew it wasn't the external drive.

Then the cable company came out to fix an unrelated matter, and in doing so replaced my 8240 with an 8300. The glitches went away.

Now before I jump to the conclusion that it was the 8240, they also replaced some of my co-axial cable. They said I was getting very poor signal strength due to cheap wiring. So it's *possible* the glitches were due to the signal and not the 8300. I'll never know.

Anyone here w/ an 8240 and an external drive that works glitch-free?

davehancock

10-05-07, 02:17 PM

This is a good question. I had an 8240 hooked up to a Western Digital DVR Expander via eSata and kept getting glitches every 2-3 minutes. I then bought an Apricorn Xpander and saw the same glitches, so I knew it wasn't the external drive.

Then the cable company came out to fix an unrelated matter, and in doing so replaced my 8240 with an 8300. The glitches went away.

Now before I jump to the conclusion that it was the 8240, they also replaced some of my co-axial cable. They said I was getting very poor signal strength due to cheap wiring. So it's *possible* the glitches were due to the signal and not the 8300. I'll never know.

Anyone here w/ an 8240 and an external drive that works glitch-free?I'm sure the problem was the signal strength. The 8240 should work the same with an external drive as the 8300. As you know, the difference between the two is only the analog tuners. The specs for the 8240 indicate support for the external drive.

nihilan

10-05-07, 03:01 PM

This is a good question. I had an 8240 hooked up to a Western Digital DVR Expander via eSata and kept getting glitches every 2-3 minutes. I then bought an Apricorn Xpander and saw the same glitches, so I knew it wasn't the external drive.

Then the cable company came out to fix an unrelated matter, and in doing so replaced my 8240 with an 8300. The glitches went away.

Now before I jump to the conclusion that it was the 8240, they also replaced some of my co-axial cable. They said I was getting very poor signal strength due to cheap wiring. So it's *possible* the glitches were due to the signal and not the 8300. I'll never know.

Anyone here w/ an 8240 and an external drive that works glitch-free?

Did you ever test to see if your glitches were a result of playback? Ie, could you rewind and not see the same glitch?

In any event your experience leads me to believe that it is possible that a new box would help.

xnappo

10-05-07, 03:03 PM

I'm sure the problem was the signal strength. The 8240 should work the same with an external drive as the 8300. As you know, the difference between the two is only the analog tuners. The specs for the 8240 indicate support for the external drive.

Agreed. WHENEVER you have glitching you can simply check your S/N ratio in the diags screens. If it is below 33 then it is your signal.

xnappo

evperry

10-05-07, 09:45 PM

Ok.

I just bought the Western Digital DVR Expander. I thought this was gonna be th easiest of all setups as I dont have to guy an exclosure, drive and cable, I thought i just hook it up.

Im in NYC (Queens) and I am running passport echo on a 8300HD. I unpluged the 8300HD from the rear, plugged in the DVR expander and the sata cables and waited a minute. Plugged back in the 8300HD and did the boot but it doesnt recognize the drive or ask to format or change the amont of space I have left.

I made sure the cable on both ends were secure and pushed in but im not getting anything.

Does anyone has any suggestions?

Riverside_Guy

10-06-07, 08:55 AM

I'm sure the problem was the signal strength. The 8240 should work the same with an external drive as the 8300. As you know, the difference between the two is only the analog tuners. The specs for the 8240 indicate support for the external drive.

Dave, my recent experiences point me to at least one sure fire way to increase the glitches... running way too tight on bandwidth. The last channel added (ESPN2 HD) started glitching like you wouldn't believe, it made a lot of things unwatchable. Not only that, but I also "know" the same issue happened at a different head end from me. VERY slowly, it got better. Then one of our more astute members noticed recordings were taking less disk space, a sure sign they were rate shaping. Problems went way down. THEN about a month ago, they dropped 4 analogs. BINGO, virtually NO glitches since then.

BTW, signal strength and s/n ratio were 2 items I did check frequently. At no time could I see any appreciable difference. Signal strength was consistently at or above what common wisdom said was OK.

Riverside_Guy

10-06-07, 08:56 AM

sanitystream

10-07-07, 02:59 AM

Did you ever test to see if your glitches were a result of playback? Ie, could you rewind and not see the same glitch?

In any event your experience leads me to believe that it is possible that a new box would help.

yeah, I did test that. Sometimes the glitches were recorded and I could play them back, sometimes they weren't -- but mostly they were, so probably it was a signal issue.

My S/N ratio was like down to 8 or 10 or some really low number, the cable guy said.

Now that I've had a new wire installed 3 days ago, I've been glitch free ever since.

nihilan

10-07-07, 10:40 AM

yeah, I did test that. Sometimes the glitches were recorded and I could play them back, sometimes they weren't -- but mostly they were, so probably it was a signal issue.

My S/N ratio was like down to 8 or 10 or some really low number, the cable guy said.

Now that I've had a new wire installed 3 days ago, I've been glitch free ever since.

My glitches are definitely playback issues. Which is quite irritating, because I don't know how to isolate the problem (short of renting an additional box -which I am reluctant to do).

I may try another apricorn enclosure first.

jwhhouston

10-07-07, 02:15 PM

I have been unsuccessful in adding my external drive that previously worked to my new hdc. It previously worked when I had just the 8300hd box but ever since I swapped out that for a 8300HDC it hasn't been able to work. It asks to format and then does nothing. I have tried letting it run over night and still nothing. When I reboot it just asks to format it again. Previously it took just a few seconds to format and then gave me a success message. Nothing this time. I've tried swapping out boxes twice more but still the same.

My only thought is that since it is a drive I used previously that it will take forever to format it.

Any suggestions? Any one else who has had problems adding a previously used HD to a new 8300? Thanks in advance.
Here's what I have

8300 hdc
SARA 1.90.5.103
Seagate 500 gb internal in Smart Drive enclosure

xnappo

10-07-07, 02:29 PM

8300 hdc
SARA 1.90.5.103
Seagate 500 gb internal in Smart Drive enclosure

Is the Seagate a 7200.10? If so those don't work well - neither do some 7200.9s. Check the database in my sig for successful combos.

You are sure that your free space did not go up?

xnappo

sugarman71

10-08-07, 01:14 PM

Is the Seagate a 7200.10? If so those don't work well - neither do some 7200.9s. Check the database in my sig for successful combos.

xnappo

xnappo et all
I have been checking this thread (& others) off & on & just finished reading this one. :D I post quite a bit on Digitalhome.ca about all things Rogers SARA 8300 & external drives. Check it out, like you guys we are always finding new issues & sometimes have a different spin on things that might be helpfull. I hope you don't mind if I post your HD data base on our site. It is truly a godsend to anyone new & old to all this. I've already posted some info, like that above, on our ext. drive thread. I've had quite a few 8000 & 8300s to contend with since they became available in Canada 3-4 yrs ago. I find it frustrating that the cablecos have thrown us to the wolves with this & all the others issues we contend with.
Now, since it's Thanksgiving in Canada I'd like to thank all the people who've shared their wisdom,time & patience here.ie... pepar,veggas,dmilani,riverside guy,davehancock,doubledaz, and of course xnappo & others. To my fellow Canucks who puruse these threads, happy Thanksgiving, EH!

xnappo

10-08-07, 03:53 PM

I hope you don't mind if I post your HD data base on our site.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=505907&postcount=907

:)

But it would be great to have it more prominent!

Thanks,
xnappo

sugarman71

10-08-07, 04:38 PM

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=505907&postcount=907

:)

But it would be great to have it more prominent!

Thanks,
xnappo

How true and how soon we forget.:) Posters there still ask what's recommended to use. Guess you wouldn't mind if I ask them to add to the summary post. I'll post it again as a reminder.
THX

xnappo

10-08-07, 04:42 PM

Posters there still ask what's recommended to use. Guess you wouldn't mind if I ask them to add to the summary post.
THX

Yeah, that would be great!

Thanks,
xnappo

evperry

10-09-07, 12:56 AM

Thank you very much.

This thread is soooo long that when i searched I didnt check that far back.

I am up and running with a WD DVR expander.

You might try a hot plug of the SATA cable; if I recall, that worked for a few...

seldenpat

10-09-07, 07:58 PM

I'm one of the successes with the 500GB Cavalry drive and can report no issues whatever so far, which is a happy thing now that we are well into college football season. Keep an eye on buy.com - they occasionally offer it under $100 AR.

I have it working as well, but can't figure out how to post to the database.

Came with the right cable as well.

xnappo

10-09-07, 09:02 PM

I have it working as well, but can't figure out how to post to the database.

Came with the right cable as well.

Just click the 'New' link.

xnappo

wlemunyon

10-10-07, 03:01 PM

daloosh

10-10-07, 04:10 PM

DoubleDAZ

10-10-07, 09:34 PM

I am new to this. I replaced a Hitachi 500gb drive in my enclosure with a 1TB Hitachi drive and it works great. I am trying to use the 500gb drive in my PC as a secondary drive but my PC does not seem to 'see" it so that I can reformat it. Any suggestions?AFAIK, that is not possible. Simplistically, I think the SATA is "formatted" on the fly, though I'm not sure "formatted" is the right term. I don't think it goes through the entire drive like Windows does or anything like that and I don't believe the software recognizes any sort of partitioning like Windows does either.

DoubleDAZ

10-10-07, 09:36 PM

Wow! I keep running around 85% on the 500GB Samsung, and am deleting things I've no time to watch to make space for new stuff, like the new fall TV shows.

Just looked at newegg, that Hitachi is $359, a little pricey for me right now... Thanks for the info, tho!

dalooshThat's the problem. I suspect if you had 1TB, you'd still run 85% or more. The more space we have, the more we record, even though there are not enough hours to watch it all. :)

CANNON-FODDER

10-10-07, 10:07 PM

AFAIK, that is not possible. Simplistically, I think the SATA is "formatted" on the fly, though I'm not sure "formatted" is the right term. I don't think it goes through the entire drive like Windows does or anything like that and I don't believe the software recognizes any sort of partitioning like Windows does either.I think he meant to re-purpose the old drive as a normal HHD, but his PC did not recognize the drive to format it for computer use.

If so, wlemunyon, you might look into the BIOS for the motherboard to make sure the SATA ports are enabled. Especially if you are using PATA primary drive or connected it to supplemental SATA ports connected to a separate SATA controller (or RAID controller) instead of ones directly off the chipset.

Or, you might need to go into the computer management console (right click My Computer) and find/delete the partition from the [correct] drive.

v/r,
C-F

DoubleDAZ

10-10-07, 10:43 PM

I think he meant to re-purpose the old drive as a normal HHD, but his PC did not recognize the drive to format it for computer use.You're right, my mistake.

Hilo Hairy

10-10-07, 11:24 PM

I am new to this. I replaced a Hitachi 500gb drive in my enclosure with a 1TB Hitachi drive and it works great. I am trying to use the 500gb drive in my PC as a secondary drive but my PC does not seem to 'see" it so that I can reformat it. Any suggestions?

Did you use a SATA connection to your PC? I ask because early Sata drives had both SATA and PATA connectors. I believe only the SATA are internally connected.

genes

10-11-07, 08:14 AM

dannyv@cybernex.

10-11-07, 09:13 AM

I am new to this. I replaced a Hitachi 500gb drive in my enclosure with a 1TB Hitachi drive and it works great. I am trying to use the 500gb drive in my PC as a secondary drive but my PC does not seem to 'see" it so that I can reformat it. Any suggestions?

Can you keep us informed as to the operation of the 1tb drive over the long run. I'm courious to find out if it runs stable over the next several weeks.
Let us know if you start getting any glitches, or if programs terminate early or if you get any performance issues at all as the drive fills up.

BPlayer

10-11-07, 09:18 AM

I am trying to use the 500gb drive in my PC as a secondary drive but my PC does not seem to 'see" it so that I can reformat it. Any suggestions?
Go to Help and Support from the Start Menu, and search for Disk Management. There are tips on adding a drive and the Disk Management Console should provide the facility for the additional drive to be identified, partitioned and formatted.

xnappo

10-11-07, 09:48 AM

I am getting freeze-ups as follows: I recently connected a Seagate ST3300601XS-rk drive (that is listed as working on this forum). Since then on four occassion I have had the 8300 totally lock up during playback. The remote does not work, the front power button does not work. Either I have to pull the plug and re-boot, or if I wait too long the box re-boots itself. Questions:

1) Known Solutions?
2) What buttons on the front do I press to force a re-boot?

Since this is an external drive, it is quite possible that they can switch what is inside and not change the part number. I would open it up and see what the model of the internal drive is and compare to the database.

xnappo

wlemunyon

10-11-07, 11:00 AM

The PC is a year and a half old HP Media Center PC m7470n with 2 SATA connectors on the motherboard, the original hard drive is connected to the first SATA connector and I connected the Hitachi 500gb to the second SATA connector. In the BIOS it says the SATA-1 adapter is enabled. I go to Disk Management and rescan but it does not find the disk. I use DISKPART and rescan, but it does not find the disk.

PatG25

10-11-07, 05:23 PM

I just connected a 500 MB Cavalry eSata external Hard Drive to the 8300. After a little playing around with it the drive was recognized, and I am down to 14% recorded space (from 67%) :). I have not yet recorded anything, but we'll see. I read somewhere that Cavalry puts in different drives and you can get unlucky :mad:.

I do have a questions for those that have an external drive connected. Do you turn off the external drive at night? I know that the 8300 Hard Drive is always running, but it seems to me that I wouldn't need to have the external one on all the time.

If you do turn it off, does the order matter? How about when turning everything back on. If the external drive is left off, does the 8300 just go back to its internal drive?

Thanks.

genes

10-11-07, 07:35 PM

You have to leave it on. If it tries to access it and it is off, then you must re-boot to be able to get at any recorded material on the external drive.

Millwood1

10-11-07, 07:57 PM

IIRC, you need to put a disk signature on the disk. Flail around a bit and see if the disk manager offers that choice.

tony57

10-11-07, 09:24 PM

Glitches continued after further use, so I tried a better quality cable ($20), and it seems to have (finally?) solved my problem. The response time of the rewind and quick rewind has also improved. I thought that 'a cable is just a cable', but in researching eSata cables on Newegg, the cheaper cables did get negative comments. I still prefer the Apricorn case over the Rosewill (but both include cheap eSata cables). If anyone is having problems with glitches, it might be worth the $20 to see if a quality cable fixes the problem.

Tony

The Apricorn case solved the glitching I was getting with the Rosewell. The Apricorn enclosure is what I would now recommend.

Tony

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony57
I have a Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 on order. This drive is supposed to be opimized for DVR's ("The 500GB DB35 7200.3 3.5" Disc Drive for DVRs redefines value for high-capacity systems and delivers performance optimized for DVR storage and optimization.")

I should have it in a couple of days and I'll post my results after I give it a workout.

nihilan

10-11-07, 10:57 PM

Glitches continued after further use, so I tried a better quality cable ($20), and it seems to have (finally?) solved my problem. The response time of the rewind and quick rewind has also improved. I thought that 'a cable is just a cable', but in researching eSata cables on Newegg, the cheaper cables did get negative comments. I still prefer the Apricorn case over the Rosewill (but both include cheap eSata cables). If anyone is having problems with glitches, it might be worth the $20 to see if a quality cable fixes the problem.

Tony

Can you tell us what cable you bought?

Also, did you notice whether your glitches were playback or recording glitches?

Thanks!

I'm on my second Apricorn case and still getting playback glitches.

pepar

10-11-07, 11:41 PM

Glitches continued after further use, so I tried a better quality cable ($20), and it seems to have (finally?) solved my problem.
Before you tried a different cable, did you try re-seating all of the connections with the previous cable? If not, then the act of "re-seating" the (new) cable might have been the cure. Just a thought . . .

tony57

10-12-07, 12:16 AM

Yes, it tried that a few times with cable that came with the enclosure, no effect. The quality cable even has a noticeable effect on re-wind and quick re-wind.

Before you tried a different cable, did you try re-seating all of the connections with the previous cable? If not, then the act of "re-seating" the (new) cable might have been the cure. Just a thought . . .

tony57

10-12-07, 12:21 AM

The cable I bought was a SIIG 3.28 ft. eSATA to eSATA Cable Model CB-SA0111-S1 (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16812191016)

Not sure if it was playback or recording glitches, but the new cable appears to have fixed the problem

Tony

Can you tell us what cable you bought?

Also, did you notice whether your glitches were playback or recording glitches?

Thanks!

I'm on my second Apricorn case and still getting playback glitches.

DoubleDAZ

10-12-07, 12:30 AM

Yes, it tried that a few times with cable that came with the enclosure, no effect. The quality cable even has a noticeable effect on re-wind and quick re-wind.Sounds more like a bad cable, maybe some broken strands or something limiting the current flow. Might be interesting to actually run some tests on the cable to see what's what, or maybe compare specs. I've got to believe other cables are working just fine or they'd start shipping these units with different cables.

PatG25

10-12-07, 08:48 AM

You have to leave it on. If it tries to access it and it is off, then you must re-boot to be able to get at any recorded material on the external drive.

I know that most Hard Drives now work fairly well, but I have had one hard drive go bust in almost every computer I ever owned. So I just have a hard time leaving a disk on all the time; even though there is an argument of what is worse - leaving it running on spinning it up during a power-on. And yes, there are millions of servers all over the world with hard disks that are on 24/7.

I assume that if I just turn off the hard drive and not try to play a show that is on the external drive everything will be fine. Problem is how do I know where it is? Also, if the external drive is off new shows should just go onto the internal drive.

So bottom line, I should be able to turn off the drive when the DVR is not in use, and just turn it on when I possible want to watch something that is recorded. Question is, how does the 8300 handle the handshaking on the SATA port? Does it work as smoothly as USB? If I screw up, than I would need to reboot.

Or am I oversimplifying?

tony57

10-12-07, 09:02 AM

.
Compared to the $20 cable, the one supplied with the Apricorn enclosure is of poor construction. I also had problems with the Roswill enclosure, I thought it was the case, but it probably was the poor quality cable that they supplied. For me, it was worth the extra $20 for a quality cable (I haven't had a single glitch in the 15 hrs since I changed cables)

Tony

Sounds more like a bad cable, maybe some broken strands or something limiting the current flow. Might be interesting to actually run some tests on the cable to see what's what, or maybe compare specs. I've got to believe other cables are working just fine or they'd start shipping these units with different cables.

DoubleDAZ

10-12-07, 09:38 AM

tony57,

Did you happen to notify them that a different cable solved your problem? Perhaps they need to rethink what cable supplier they use. Makes me wonder how many other problems might have been solved with a better cable vs different drive/enclosure. I took a look at the cable in your link, how did the other one compare? What it thinner cable? Poor connectors?

pepar

10-12-07, 09:50 AM

DoubleDAZ

10-12-07, 09:59 AM

Misunderstanding. Misunderstanding the implications, I'd say, of the drive "disappearing" and "reappearing" and how the 8300HD would interpret and react to that. I'd rather risk a long-term hard drive failure than rolling the dice every day on the box not recognizing the drive and asking if I want to format the "new" drive that it sees.I don't know that it can't be done, but my take is that if the OP is so worried about drive failure and is willing to turn it on/off, why get an external drive in the first place? IMHO, it pretty much defeats the purpose, doesn't it? I know there have been some who thoiught about doing something along those lines to try to manage where specific recordings went for archiving. Not sure what came of those though or if anyone is actually doing that.

tony57

10-12-07, 10:24 AM

.
.
Nope. Good case, very poor cable. My advice, its worth the extra $20 for a quality cable.

tony57,

Did you happen to notify them that a different cable solved your problem? Perhaps they need to rethink what cable supplier they use. Makes me wonder how many other problems might have been solved with a better cable vs different drive/enclosure. I took a look at the cable in your link, how did the other one compare? What it thinner cable? Poor connectors?

davehancock

10-12-07, 10:46 AM

I know that most Hard Drives now work fairly well, but I have had one hard drive go bust in almost every computer I ever owned. So I just have a hard time leaving a disk on all the time; even though there is an argument of what is worse - leaving it running on spinning it up during a power-on. And yes, there are millions of servers all over the world with hard disks that are on 24/7.Well, in 20+ years of using computers I've never had a hard drive go bad. More to the point: I've had an external hard drive on my 8300HD for a little over 2 1/2 years now and have had the drive powered up 24/7 and not had any sort of failure. I think that keeping the drive cool is important, and do have an enclosure (ePower) with good cooling.
I assume that if I just turn off the hard drive and not try to play a show that is on the external drive everything will be fine. Problem is how do I know where it is? Also, if the external drive is off new shows should just go onto the internal drive.You assume too far much. You don't state (include it in your signature) if you have SARA or Passport (or even Navigator), and operation may be different between these. But, the designers started with the assumption that the external drives would be up and running 24/7 (as stated in SA documentation) and the logic you look for just may not be there. Also, as no US cable company actively supports the external drive, there is little feedback to the software folks about "proper" operation.

So bottom line, I should be able to turn off the drive when the DVR is not in use, and just turn it on when I possible want to watch something that is recorded. Question is, how does the 8300 handle the handshaking on the SATA port? Does it work as smoothly as USB? If I screw up, than I would need to reboot.

Or am I oversimplifying?Yes, as I said above, you are expecting too much. The 8300 is not a computer, you can't it expect to act like one.

Riverside_Guy

10-12-07, 11:19 AM

Sounds more like a bad cable, maybe some broken strands or something limiting the current flow. Might be interesting to actually run some tests on the cable to see what's what, or maybe compare specs. I've got to believe other cables are working just fine or they'd start shipping these units with different cables.

Many more times than not, the "issue" with cheap cables is the quality of the connectors (the most expensive part) AND how they are "connected" to the wire. Wire is pretty much wire, there CAN be an issue with wire being too light weight for the distance it has to travel.

My stock advice is always, ALWAYS buy the middle price.

Riverside_Guy

10-12-07, 11:28 AM

Yes, as I said above, you are expecting too much. The 8300 is not a computer, you can't it expect to act like one.

I gotta take a tad of exception there Dave! The 8300 is actually very much a computer, not a general purpose one, yes there are no exposed APIs or any form of SDK, but it very much IS a computer. Witness so many different software choices they have, SARA, Passport, Nagivator...

Just because we are afflicted with the world's worst software support for external volumes, one can't disclaim it as being a computer.

Honestly, I can't fault anyone for thinking (having expectations) that it SHOULD work as it should... despite the fact that the cable guys refuse to say they support external drives, there sure IS some level of support in all three possible software platforms. ALL the cable guys COULD have made sure it never worked at all.

davehancock

10-12-07, 11:41 AM

I gotta take a tad of exception there Dave! The 8300 is actually very much a computer, not a general purpose one, yes there are no exposed APIs or any form of SDK, but it very much IS a computer. Witness so many different software choices they have, SARA, Passport, Nagivator...Well, is an automobile a computer? No, just because an item uses a processor, does not make it a computer.
Honestly, I can't fault anyone for thinking (having expectations) that it SHOULD work as it should... despite the fact that the cable guys refuse to say they support external drives, there sure IS some level of support in all three possible software platforms.As I am sure you know, any software project starts with specifications on what the overall product is to do. The the SHOULD's relate to the product spec's not to typical functions of an entirely different product (a PC). Just because there is an eSATA port, and a USB port on the device, does not mean that the use of those ports conforms to normal computer expectations.

ALL the cable guys COULD have made sure it never worked at all.Shhhhhh. There had been rumors a while ago (thankfully, false) that the cable companies were asking SA to disable the eSATA. We don't want to get them to reconsider that. ;)

genes

10-12-07, 12:17 PM

It is my experience that if you turn an external drive off, the 8300 can continue to record using the internal drive. It also can playback anything on the internal drive. The recordings on the external drive appear on the recorded list, but if you try to access them nothing happens (you stay on the list screen). In order to play a program recorded on the external drive, you cannot just turn the drive on -- you must re-boot. So you have a five minute wait. You cannot tell from the recorded list which program is recorded where, the algorithm used puts a program on the disk with the most remaining empty space when recording starts. Since most external drives are bigger than the internal drive (why else would you bother), most recordings are put on the external drive if it is turned on at the time of recording.

PatG25

10-12-07, 01:15 PM

davehancock

10-12-07, 02:28 PM

Riverside_Guy

10-13-07, 10:04 AM

Well, is an automobile a computer? No, just because an item uses a processor, does not make it a computer.

Not the best example in the world, the automobile's main function is quite nicely fulfilled without a processor, so it's a product that contains some computing functions, ones that are NOT needed to provide it's main function.

As I am sure you know, any software project starts with specifications on what the overall product is to do. The the SHOULD's relate to the product spec's not to typical functions of an entirely different product (a PC). Just because there is an eSATA port, and a USB port on the device, does not mean that the use of those ports conforms to normal computer expectations.

It's obvious the "specs" you refer to sure as hell specified expanded storage via additional HDDs, the hardware is there and rudimentary software support also are available in Passport, SARA, and Nagivator. As such, they absolutely DO have to "act" like a computer, they ARE functions that a computer uses. This is all very well known stuff, there's no mystery here.

Shhhhhh. There had been rumors a while ago (thankfully, false) that the cable companies were asking SA to disable the eSATA. We don't want to get them to reconsider that. ;)

On that we CAN agree!

I know this is about semantics, but I engage in it because I feel strongly that TWC's software MUST be judged by... standards of software in general. Arguing that these computers aren't really computers seem counter productive to me.

Riverside_Guy

10-13-07, 10:12 AM

Thanks everyone for all the good information. I will keep the drive running; it just makes sense to do so. I would be very, very happy to get 2-3 years out of it. I have to reconfigure my entire setup and move stuff around, so I'll see if it connects back easily.

What I can offer is that over the course of 25 or so years I have run multiple HDDs 24/7 (not only that, but at least 10 of those years I was running multiple arrays of more than one disc, generally stripped) and the ONLY failures I have ever had were with 100% known issues (the original Seagate Barracudas had a bad design, they ran way over their temp spec; it took them a while to slipstream some changes, so I had 2 failures of those drives and eventually I got a drive that lasted).

HDDs ARE designed to run warm. Make SURE that your location (of the drive) is well ventilated.

DoubleDAZ

10-13-07, 10:16 AM

I know this is about semantics, but I engage in it because I feel strongly that TWC's software MUST be judged by... standards of software in general. Arguing that these computers aren't really computers seem counter productive to me.I tend to agree, but I think the point is that cableco's generally don't provide SATA support, therefore the hardware/software folks haven't been hounded to fix the problems/incompatabilities. Just because a port exists, and is somewhat useable by those who are adventurous, doesn't mean the software should be judged on the same level as those ports/functions that are supported. The USB port seems to be totally useless. Does that mean the software is broken or that it is inadequate for the functions that are advertised?

davehancock

10-13-07, 12:06 PM

I know this is about semantics, but I engage in it because I feel strongly that TWC's software MUST be judged by... standards of software in general. Arguing that these computers aren't really computers seem counter productive to me.I don't think that this discussion is about semantics at all. It is what a device is intended to do. If a device is a general purpose computer, than it needs to be judged as one. But if it is designed as a TV cable box with recording capability, that's what it is. If it utilizes computer technology, that doesn't mean that it has to take on the characteristics of a PC. My example of an automobile, I believe, was right on target in this discussion. My Prius is absolutely loaded with computers, even has a hard drive + DVD in the nav system - but I have no expectations that it should operate in any particular PC-like manner. (I have no expectation that I should be able to take out the nav database DVD and play a movie DVD on the multifunction (nav) display. I see NO difference in principal between that and the 8300. Each was designed (using computers) to perform certain functions.

Now, if you want to complain about how the Passport (or did you get Navigator crammed down your throat) software is buggy, leading to the 8300 not performing it's stated function - that's fine. But overlaying your own PC oriented expectations on an entertainment device is not.

passmeabeerdude

10-14-07, 01:08 PM

DoubleDAZ

10-14-07, 01:43 PM

I have been searching around and could not find if anyone has figured out if you can hook up the eSata on the back of the 8300HD to a eSata on a computer running XP. I appologize for the post if it is already here some place but I have been trying every search phrase I could think of that would apply and nothing has turned up yet.Of course you can, simply buy the right cable, but then what? Even if they recognize each other, they can't do anything with each other. Believe me, if they could, there's be a whole thread devoted to it and you wouldn't have to search.

passmeabeerdude

10-14-07, 01:49 PM

Of course you can, simply buy the right cable, but then what? Even if they recognize each other, they can't do anything with each other. Believe me, if they could, there's be a whole thread devoted to it and you wouldn't have to search.

Thanks for the quick response. Has anyone tried it with linux?

DoubleDAZ

10-14-07, 03:09 PM

Thanks for the quick response. Has anyone tried it with linux?Again, if anything were possible (Linux, XP, Vista, Mac, what have you), there would be a thread dedicated to it. I guess my response didn't make that clear since you just asked about XP. :)

There is a thread dedicated to recording to a PC using Firewire, etc., but that process is severely limited due to 5c copy-protection. There are also HD Tuner cards out there that will allow some recording, but that again is limited by 5c. It is also somewhat OBE since many network programs are now available online and newer PCs have HDMI ports for playback on the TV.

danno321s

10-14-07, 04:33 PM

I gave up on the Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750GB eSATA drive. I bought a Rosewill 3.5" eSata USB 2.0 enclosure and a Seagte 750GB Barracuda SATA HD. So used an eSATA to eSATA cable and everything works like a charm. Very quiet!

One question: how do I tell how much free space I have?

Danno (TWC SE Wisc SA8300HD DVR running Passport v2)

xnappo

10-14-07, 05:38 PM

There is a thread dedicated to recording to a PC using Firewire, etc., but that process is severely limited due to 5c copy-protection. There are also HD Tuner cards out there that will allow some recording, but that again is limited by 5c. It is also somewhat OBE since many network programs are now available online and newer PCs have HDMI ports for playback on the TV.

It really isn't that limited. Only pay channels seem to have 5C in Austin at least. The biggest problem is you can only get a clean recording using a Mac...

xnappo

DoubleDAZ

10-14-07, 09:31 PM

It really isn't that limited. Only pay channels seem to have 5C in Austin at least. The biggest problem is you can only get a clean recording using a Mac...

xnappoWell, yes, it does depend on location and cableco. One can check various channels in the diagnostics (at least for SARA) to see how the flags are set. Locals are generally set to Copy Freely while others are up to the cableco, etc.

Hilo Hairy

10-14-07, 09:55 PM

I gave up on the Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750GB eSATA drive.

:(I thought I was meaner and smarter than others here.:(

I programmed my FreeAgent 750's firmware to never turn off, reformatted its drive, gave it a new name and bought it an expensive E-Sata cable. About all I didn't do for it was buy it new lingerie from Victoria's Secret.

None of the above allowed it to be recognized by my Sara, Time Warner 8300HD. #**@#ing wasted Sunday.

It was so cheap though, I think I'll keep it and buy a new case for the drive.

BWX

10-15-07, 06:53 AM

BTW, on the issue of an 8300 being a "computer" or not.. of course it is a computer, a handheld calculator or a digital watch is a computer. I think an abacus and a person's brain can be considered a "computer".

com·put·er
n.
-A device that computes, especially a programmable electronic machine that performs high-speed mathematical or logical operations or that assembles, stores, correlates, or otherwise processes information.

-One who computes.

-it's just not a "PC", but it is very similar to one in many ways.

personal computer
–noun
a microcomputer designed for individual use, as by a person in an office or at home or school, for such applications as word processing, data management, financial analysis, or computer games. Abbreviation: PC

[Origin: 1975–80]

xnappo

10-15-07, 09:47 AM

BTW, on the issue of an 8300 being a "computer" or not.. of course it is a computer, a handheld calculator or a digital watch is a computer. I think an abacus and a person's brain can be considered a "computer".

Yes, this whole fun conversation could have been avoided if Dave had said 'PC' instead of 'computer' which is of course what he meant.

To answer Dave's car question - no a car is not a computer, however they usually contain quite a few.

xnappo

pepar

10-15-07, 10:42 AM

xnappo

10-15-07, 11:26 AM

Oh good grief! Not everything with a processor and storage is a computer, personal or otherwise. Our 8300HDs are DVR/tuners. Controlling the functions is a processor. My Acura is a car with a processor and memory. Our Jenn-Air is a refrigerator, our Advantium is an oven, my IR RDC-7 a pre/pro and my Mororola V3i a cellphone. All of them have processors and memory, but they are not computers. It could be said that they contain computers, but they are not computers themselves.

Sorry, I beg to differ(though your last sentence has us close to agreement) - by definition anything that performs computations is a computer - this can also be a human (or a horse?). A car's engine controller is very much a complex computer. Not worth arguing about though - we will have to agree to disagree.

com·put·er /kəmˈpyutər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhm-pyoo-ter] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. Also called processor. an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations. Compare analog computer, digital computer.
2. a person who computes; computist.

Just because a lot of people use the word 'computer' to mean 'personal computer' does not change the definition (at least not yet :) )

xnappo

biffbyun

10-15-07, 12:00 PM

Sorry as I haven't been able to read through but a portion of this thread, but from what I can tell, all that is required is to plug the esata enclosure in and go. Is there a step by step how to enable if this is not the case? How can I set the 8300 to use external instead of the internal? Anyway to copy alreay recorded stuff over from the internal to the external?
Thanks and sorry for the newbness.

pepar

10-15-07, 12:26 PM

Sorry, I beg to differ(though your last sentence has us close to agreement) - by definition anything that performs computations is a computer - this can also be a human (or a horse?). A car's engine controller is very much a complex computer. Not worth arguing about though - we will have to agree to disagree.
No disagreements here because you seem to be making my point: A car's engine controller is a computer . . the car's engine controller is a computer. It's a car whose engine's controller is a computer, not the car.

Your sub-conscious seems to agree with me! :)

xnappo

10-15-07, 12:46 PM

No disagreements here because you seem to be making my point: A car's engine controller is a computer . . the car's engine controller is a computer. It's a car whose engine's controller is a computer, not the car.

Your sub-conscious seems to agree with me! :)

Agreed :)

xnappo

DoubleDAZ

10-15-07, 12:55 PM

Sorry as I haven't been able to read through but a portion of this thread, but from what I can tell, all that is required is to plug the esata enclosure in and go. Is there a step by step how to enable if this is not the case?I don't know about any step by step, but many people have tried hot-plugging (plug in cable while both units are On) and gotten things to work. Also, sometimes it can take 3-4 reboots before the external drive is recognized.
How can I set the 8300 to use external instead of the internal?You can't, at least not without a lot of hassle managing your saved recordings, etc., and it's just not worth all that. It uses whichever drive has the most available space. It's not like the Dish DVR.
Anyway to copy alreay recorded stuff over from the internal to the external?No. It's not like a computer in that regard.
Thanks and sorry for the newbness.We were all new at one time. :)

davehancock

10-15-07, 02:05 PM

Yes, this whole fun conversation could have been avoided if Dave had said 'PC' instead of 'computer' which is of course what he meant.My bad! You are almost right (how about a Mac, etc.?). I should have really used the term "general purpose computer".

But, the reason that we got onto this topic on this thread is that all too often, folks expect the 8300 to act like a general purpose computer. And that is wrong.

I note that as you made this post, it happened again:

Sorry as I haven't been able to read through but a portion of this thread, but from what I can tell, all that is required is to plug the esata enclosure in and go. Is there a step by step how to enable if this is not the case? How can I set the 8300 to use external instead of the internal? Anyway to copy alreay recorded stuff over from the internal to the external?

IT'S NOT A (General Purpose) COMPUTER!

IT'S NOT A (General Purpose) COMPUTER!

IT'S NOT A (General Purpose) COMPUTER!

:eek:

xnappo

10-15-07, 02:50 PM

IT'S NOT A (General Purpose) COMPUTER!

IT'S NOT A (General Purpose) COMPUTER!

IT'S NOT A (General Purpose) COMPUTER!

:eek:

Haha - okay now on to the next horse :)

xnappo

Meteor

10-15-07, 03:38 PM

The 8300 is defined as a "computer appliance" the operating system commands and functions are hidden to the user and only leaves the software interface to operate the unit.

biffbyun

10-15-07, 04:33 PM

Wait, so the 8300 is a computer? :D

biffbyun

10-15-07, 04:35 PM

It uses whichever drive has the most available space.

so should I fillup the internal beforehand so it doesn't use it?
My concern is that once the internal has more space than the external, it will use that HD to record and I won't be able to switch between the 2.

davehancock

10-15-07, 05:12 PM

so should I fillup the internal beforehand so it doesn't use it?
My concern is that once the internal has more space than the external, it will use that HD to record and I won't be able to switch between the 2.Ahh - the beauty of this not being a (general purpose) computer! Don't worry about it, the 8300 knows where everything is, so it worries about what goes where.
If you have SARA (and I believe that what Howard County has), the fact that you have an external drive is totally transparent to you (except that you have more capacity). According to Scientific Atlanta, the 8300 always puts the program on the drive that as the most available space (on a % basis). So initially, most everything will go on the external drive.

biffbyun

10-15-07, 05:23 PM

Niiiiiiiice.

DoubleDAZ

10-15-07, 05:57 PM

Niiiiiiiice.You might not think so if you have to swap your 8300 for another one as all your recordings, including those on the external drive, will be lost. That's why we caution folks against trying to use it like a general purpose computer for long term archiving. Record all you want, but try to view it relatively soon in case of a failure. Nothing wrong with then keeping the recording for subsequent viewing. I know quite a few folks record series for summer viewing, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you know of the potential danger.

p3pete

10-15-07, 06:13 PM

:(I thought I was meaner and smarter than others here.:(

I programmed my FreeAgent 750's firmware to never turn off, reformatted its drive, gave it a new name and bought it an expensive E-Sata cable. About all I didn't do for it was buy it new lingerie from Victoria's Secret.

None of the above allowed it to be recognized by my Sara, Time Warner 8300HD. #**@#ing wasted Sunday.

It was so cheap though, I think I'll keep it and buy a new case for the drive.

Since we all appear to be off-topic, I just had to say that this post had me laughing out loud - particularly the bit about Victoria's Secret....

Riverside_Guy

10-16-07, 11:42 AM

My bad!

But, the reason that we got onto this topic on this thread is that all too often, folks expect the 8300 to act like a general purpose computer. And that is wrong.

IT'S NOT A (General Purpose) COMPUTER!

IT'S NOT A (General Purpose) COMPUTER!

IT'S NOT A (General Purpose) COMPUTER!

:eek:

Guess you didn't catch the multiple times I said it was NOT like a general purpose computer! And THAT is 100% because the OSes APIs are very much NOT exposed, nor is there a SDK.

However, FUNCTIONALLY is "acts" like a computer, it has a processor, it has RAM, it has software. As such, it must be judged as any "computing device." As such, I have every right to think and believe that it HAS to act like a "computing device."

CactusJack

10-16-07, 03:43 PM

pepar

10-16-07, 04:21 PM

pepar

10-16-07, 04:22 PM

Does the BIOS have an entry to enable the SATA-2 adapter?
Jack
You mean like a computer? :D

DoubleDAZ

10-16-07, 09:17 PM

Funny (and OT) question for this thread, but are there any cablecard, non-DVR HD set top boxes out there? I need an HDMI hi-def tuner and the only one Comcast is offering up is the 8300HD - for another $22/mo.SA makes other models (8300C, 8240C, 4240C, etc.), but what does Comcast do for those who just want HD and no DVR? They don't force everyone to take an 8300HDC, do they?

Edit: Sorry, I didn't note the HDMI requirement. I'd check the models out, but if Comcast doesn't offer them, why waste the time? :)

DoubleDAZ

10-16-07, 09:19 PM

Computer, schmuter, what a waste of bandwidth. ;)

BIGA$$TV

10-16-07, 09:52 PM

Funny (and OT) question for this thread, but are there any cablecard, non-DVR HD set top boxes out there? I need an HDMI hi-def tuner and the only one Comcast is offering up is the 8300HD - for another $22/mo.

Just out of curiosity, why do you need a STB with a cable card? My provider has HD STBs, in fact we have one. It's an SA, forget the number, something like 3500.

CactusJack

10-16-07, 10:26 PM

You mean like a computer? :D
Wait....it's NOT a computer? But, but, but, it has SATA ports...

davehancock

10-16-07, 10:57 PM

SA makes other models (8300C, 8240C, 4240C, etc.), but what does Comcast do for those who just want HD and no DVR? They don't force everyone to take an 8300HDC, do they?

Edit: Sorry, I didn't note the HDMI requirement. I'd check the models out, but if Comcast doesn't offer them, why waste the time? :)I've seen the cable system in Buffalo (once Adelphia, now TW) issue 8300HDs to anyone who wanted a HD STB. In those cases, they did not enable the DVR fuction. Perhaps they were just using the 8300s when they did not have HD STBs in stock, but it was something (as late as this June) that they were doing for some HD customers. I assume that still may be a business practice with the "C" versions.

Meteor

10-16-07, 11:22 PM

Riverside_Guy

10-17-07, 02:47 PM

I bought 5 of these 1TB Western Digital drives for a RAID project I have
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136151 and of course I was curious how they perform with the 8300HD and if they work it all so I installed it in one of the two Vantec enclosures I've been using for a year and half and they're flawless. These drives are the coolest and quietest I've ever had but a little expensive for fun use.
I'll run it for a week or two and I will update.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2654/tbtq8.th.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tbtq8.jpg)
PASSPORT Echo 2.6.002

WOW! However, there have been enough reports on 500G drives that issues crop up when it gets over 1/2, 2/3 full... leading to speculation it may be the limited RAM at play as an assumption has been made the RTOS always loads the directory into memory and may not update it from disk near as much as a proper computing device does.

Watch it carefully as you add content to that external drive.

CactusJack

10-17-07, 04:16 PM

... may not update it from disk near as much as a proper computing device does.
Hee hee hee!

danno321s

10-17-07, 05:48 PM

Meteor

10-17-07, 06:09 PM

WOW! However, there have been enough reports on 500G drives that issues crop up when it gets over 1/2, 2/3 full... leading to speculation it may be the limited RAM at play as an assumption has been made the RTOS always loads the directory into memory and may not update it from disk near as much as a proper computing device does.

Watch it carefully as you add content to that external drive.
Yes definetely memory is an issue but like I said this is no a permanent installation, I left it recording all the shows from HBOHD and STARSHD since yesterday to stress test it. I'll report back when I get home.

superflysocal

10-18-07, 02:46 PM

superflysocal

10-18-07, 02:51 PM

I use to support PC hardware. I think Seagate makes the best PC drives. WD's fail too often.

i like seagate drives also, but it is ironic that for dvr applications, the wd drives have fared better than the seagates.

pepar

10-18-07, 02:58 PM

I understand that itf i moved the external drive from one dvr to another i woul dlose everything. But, what if I just want to switch out enclosures but use the same drive on the same DVR? Could I save all the recordings?

I got a vantec 3 becuase it was affordabel and has worked well, but now I see a sale on the Antec MX-1 which supposedly has a near silent fan and wonder if that would be better in the long run heatwise and stability wise.
The drive is keyed to the 8300HD. Move the drive, lose the content. Changing enclosures will not affect your ability to access the content. Generally speaking, the cooler the drive, the longer the drive life.

nihilan

10-19-07, 09:10 AM

I need help.

I've tried two different hard drives (the samsung spinpoint and the WD 500AAKS) both get good reports in the database. I've tried two different Apricorn cases, and three different eSATA cables.

With all of these combos, I still get way too many playback glitches. The only thing left is the converter box. It's a 8240 and I'm wondering if getting an 8300 will fix my problem.

The only catch is I don't want to take my box back because I've got a lot of shows I want to watch on it. Is there anything else I can do? I've seen some mention of software versions on these boxes, how do I check that and/or update it, and is there any likelihood of that having an effect on playback from the external drive?

Thanks!

xnappo

10-19-07, 09:44 AM

The only catch is I don't want to take my box back because I've got a lot of shows I want to watch on it. Is there anything else I can do? I've seen some mention of software versions on these boxes, how do I check that and/or update it, and is there any likelihood of that having an effect on playback from the external drive?

Thanks!

Honestly, I think you have done everything you can except try another box. I am assuming you DO NOT get glitches without the external drive.

I would just go and rent another box and don't return your current one. Hook up the new one and see if the glitches go away. If they DON'T you should be able to return the box and only get charged for a couple of days (unless they are bastards, which is a possibility). If it DOES fix the problem then you need to decide if you should pay the extra $$ until you get everything watched on the old box, or sacrifice the shows.

xnappo

DoubleDAZ

10-19-07, 10:00 AM

Honestly, I think you have done everything you can except try another box. I am assuming you DO NOT get glitches without the external drive.I agree. And it shouldn't matter whether you get another 8240 or an 8300. The only difference between them is that the 8240 does not have the analog tuner circuitry, making it a bit cheaper. And, depending on what they have in their current inventory, you may actually end up with an 8300HDC that uses cablecards. Also, you don't identify your location/cableco. If it's TWC/Passport, you could end up with an 8300HDC with the Navigator software.

nihilan

10-19-07, 10:26 AM

davehancock

10-19-07, 01:25 PM

And, depending on what they have in their current inventory, you may actually end up with an 8300HDC that uses cablecards. Also, you don't identify your location/cableco. If it's TWC, you could end up with an 8300HDC with the Navigator software.Dave, just a reminder that currently this is only a threat (Navigator) on TW in Passport systems. They haven't moved Navigator into any SARA areas yet. (But folks are having issues with SA8300HDCs with SARA.)

BWX

10-19-07, 02:06 PM

........... They haven't moved Navigator into any SARA areas yet......
I sure hope they don't either.. Especially in the Buffalo area.

dannyv@cybernex.

10-19-07, 04:43 PM

DoubleDAZ

10-19-07, 08:30 PM

Dave, just a reminder that currently this is only a threat (Navigator) on TW in Passport systems. They haven't moved Navigator into any SARA areas yet. (But folks are having issues with SA8300HDCs with SARA.)I guess I should have specified TWC/Passport, huh? :)

davehancock

10-19-07, 08:44 PM

I guess I should have specified TWC/Passport, huh? :)(AGAIN) It sure would be nice if this thread was broken up into separate threads for SARA, Passport & Navigator. Gotta remind folks every couple of months or so. :rolleyes:

xnappo

10-19-07, 09:04 PM

(AGAIN) It sure would be nice if this thread was broken up into separate threads for SARA, Passport & Navigator. Gotta remind folks every couple of months or so. :rolleyes:

I will now issue my quarterly agreement.

However, I will say that I think that the database suggests the SATA driver is at a lower level than SARA/Passport/Navigator.

xnappo

DoubleDAZ

10-19-07, 09:16 PM

I will now issue my quarterly agreement.

However, I will say that I think that the database suggests the SATA driver is at a lower level than SARA/Passport/Navigator.

xnappoGuys, guys, guys, it's not that hard to do. Just start 3 new threads. Use some of the first post here as the first post in each of those threads and reserve posts 2-5 in each. Then ask one of the mods (CPanther95 or markrubin for example) to close this thread. Then have Mark update the Scientific Atlanta Master thread to include links to the new threads. Then watch a lot of data get duplicated in each thread. ;)

pepar

10-19-07, 10:19 PM

Guys, guys, guys, it's not that hard to do. Just start 3 new threads. Use some of the first post here as the first post in each of those threads and reserve posts 2-5 in each. Then ask one of the mods (CPanther95 or markrubin for example) to close this thread. Then have Mark update the Scientific Atlanta Master thread to include links to the new threads. Then watch a lot of data get duplicated in each thread. ;)
At this point it seems to come down to which is easier - finding out from new posters which system/software/version they have and helping them here, or finding out from new posters which system/software/version they have, sending them to one of three threads and then going there and helping them.

DoubleDAZ

10-19-07, 11:02 PM

At this point it seems to come down to which is easier - finding out from new posters which system/software/version they have and helping them here, or finding out from new posters which system/software/version they have, sending them to one of three threads and then going there and helping them.I totally agree. I wasn't advocating 3 threads. I happen to believe there is simply too much overlap, but we have to agree that Dave is right, we do tend to have to keep mentioning the differences pretty often.

I personally think all that could have been overcome if there were a "first post" here that outlined the major points. And I'm sure I could get it done if someone would put it together. DMILANI is still around and he will pretty much put whatever we want in the first post. I don't use SATA and I don't have the expertise to do it or I would have already done it. All it really needs is a 3-part summary of things specific to each software package, beginning with the install instructions. xnappo's databases already take care of the hardware end of things.

We could even get it done with a series of posts detailing what everyone would like to see in the first post for a given software package. I, or anyone else that wants to, could then take those and merge them for DMILANI to edit into the first post. He's moved on and no longer monitors this thread, so he can't maintain the first post like I do for the SARA Tips thread, but he'll replace what's there as needed with whatever we give him.

PatG25

10-20-07, 08:37 AM

testing

Riverside_Guy

10-20-07, 09:05 AM

Here's an interesting product http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817332013

A 4 bay esata enclosure with its own onboard controller. I wonder if it would work for the 8300HD.

It would be insane if it did. Imagine 3 - 4TB of storage for the 8300 (note that you can span drives with this).

I bought the USB/ATA version of this for my standalone MVIX media center and love it.

This can't work (unfortunately). The rub is that uses a single data cable for those 4 drives. And THAT means that it hooks to a host that understands the concept of a single data cable (normally, SATA means one drive, one connector, one controller times how many you want). Note that it comes with a PCI-E card, so I couldn't actually use it on my PCI-X system (there may very be a PCI-X card that has the single data cable feature).

msltechie

10-20-07, 10:59 AM

First off, thanks to all the experts who have posted their knowledge here. I've been lurking for a bit and finally took the plunge. After making the mistake of buying a Seagate FreeAgent Pro BEFORE reviewing the list, I ordered the WD5000AAKS and the Apricorn EZ BUS DTS EKIT. I followed the instructions from Pepar's link and it worked like a charm. I now have a total of 597 Gb. Now back to the thread to read about testing the space... Thanks again.
Mike in Milwaukee
TWC, Passport, etc...

danno321s

10-20-07, 04:30 PM

Meteor

10-20-07, 11:20 PM

Here's an interesting product http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817332013

A 4 bay esata enclosure with its own onboard controller. I wonder if it would work for the 8300HD.

It would be insane if it did. Imagine 3 - 4TB of storage for the 8300 (note that you can span drives with this).

I bought the USB/ATA version of this for my standalone MVIX media center and love it.
Unfortunately not,
Extracted from 8300HD manual:

Recommendations for the SATA Drive

Contact your cable service provider for a list of approved external SATA hard disk drives.
At a minimum, your SATA drive should have these capabilities:
• External SATA Connector - SATA II: Cable and Connector, Revision 1.0 (www.sata-io.org for more information)
• Drive Speed: 7200 RPM (5400 RPM without Multi-room); 133 MB/sec
• Capacity: Only one SATA drive can be connected to the 8300HD. The 8300HD will not support a separate port multiplier.
• SATA Drive Power: The SATA drive should power on when plugged in and should not be
controlled by a switch.

netvizier

10-21-07, 03:19 AM

I just bought a new WD 1TB eSATA drive (My Book Home Edition: WDH1CS10000) and I am having a difficult time trying to get my 8300 HD DVR (TWC)to recognize it. I am writing in the hopes that someone may be able to help.

I've been using an external eSATA drive from Seagate, and its been working fine, but it was only 200GB or so, so I've been wanting to upgrade to 1TB.

The diagnostic screen shows 1 storage device with a capacity of 148.9 GB Which is the capacity of the internal drive that comes with the DVR). Strangely, when I connect the WD drive and reboot the DVR, I don't get any error messages and the capacity stays the same. However, if I then unplug the eSATA cable or power off the WD drive, I will get an error saying the external drive was unplugged.

I seem to recall that when I got the Seagate drive working, there was actually a message that indicated it was being formatted or something like that. Well I haven't ever received that message with the new WD drive.

What gives? Please help!

Thanks,

nv

xnappo

10-21-07, 10:59 AM

I just bought a new WD 1TB eSATA drive (My Book Home Edition: WDH1CS10000) and I am having a difficult time trying to get my 8300 HD DVR (TWC)to recognize it. I am writing in the hopes that someone may be able to help.

I've been using an external eSATA drive from Seagate, and its been working fine, but it was only 200GB or so, so I've been wanting to upgrade to 1TB.

The diagnostic screen shows 1 storage device with a capacity of 148.9 GB Which is the capacity of the internal drive that comes with the DVR). Strangely, when I connect the WD drive and reboot the DVR, I don't get any error messages and the capacity stays the same. However, if I then unplug the eSATA cable or power off the WD drive, I will get an error saying the external drive was unplugged.
What gives? Please help!

Thanks,

nv

WD 'My Book' drives are known not to work. See the database. According to one database entry this is due to auto speed negotiation.

WD makes a separate line calle 'My DVR Expander' which does work.

xnappo

tony57

10-22-07, 08:28 AM

Did you only use the eSata cables supplied with the enclosures? I have not had a glitch since I started using a $20 eStata cable with an Apricorn.

I need help.

I've tried two different hard drives (the samsung spinpoint and the WD 500AAKS) both get good reports in the database. I've tried two different Apricorn cases, and three different eSATA cables.

With all of these combos, I still get way too many playback glitches. The only thing left is the converter box. It's a 8240 and I'm wondering if getting an 8300 will fix my problem.

The only catch is I don't want to take my box back because I've got a lot of shows I want to watch on it. Is there anything else I can do? I've seen some mention of software versions on these boxes, how do I check that and/or update it, and is there any likelihood of that having an effect on playback from the external drive?

Thanks!

tony57

10-22-07, 08:31 AM

What type of issues? (I recently installed a 500g and I'm under 50% at this time).

WOW! However, there have been enough reports on 500G drives that issues crop up when it gets over 1/2, 2/3 full... leading to speculation it may be the limited RAM at play as an assumption has been made the RTOS always loads the directory into memory and may not update it from disk near as much as a proper computing device does.

Watch it carefully as you add content to that external drive.

greggie26

10-22-07, 04:38 PM

I tried a 750 seagate on an 8300HD DVR, bought an enclosure but the multiple interface options on the SATA external enclosure made the box (except for the external power supply useless. I cut a slot in the back of the external so a standard sata cable would fit then plugged that cable into an esata cable and I was up. The only thing that i hate is the fact that an external sata takes away your ability to rewind live shows... My next try will be to replace the internal IDE with a close to 500gb........

netvizier

10-22-07, 10:26 PM

WD 'My Book' drives are known not to work. See the database. According to one database entry this is due to auto speed negotiation.

WD makes a separate line calle 'My DVR Expander' which does work.

xnappo

Yeah, but the "My DVR Expander" only comes in capacities up to 500GB.

So, now I've tried a Seagate 750GB FreeAgent Pro, and that doesn't seem to work either! What gives? Doesn't anyone make something close to a terabyte work with these DVRs out-of-the-box?

Thanks!

nv

ps: what database are you refering to?

davehancock

10-22-07, 10:40 PM

Yeah, but the "My DVR Expander" only comes in capacities up to 500GB.

So, now I've tried a Seagate 750GB FreeAgent Pro, and that doesn't seem to work either! What gives? Doesn't anyone make something close to a terabyte work with these DVRs out-of-the-box?

Thanks!

nv

ps: what database are you refering to?See the links in Xnappo's signature!

I'm curious what made you think that these drives would work?

DoubleDAZ

10-22-07, 10:59 PM

ps: what database are you refering to?Read the first post in this thread and you'll see the database links.

DoubleDAZ

10-22-07, 11:01 PM

The only thing that i hate is the fact that an external sata takes away your ability to rewind live shows...Only for Passport users. You do know you can record the program and get the "trick play" functions back, don't you?

netvizier

10-22-07, 11:12 PM

Read the first post in this thread and you'll see the database links.

Oops, sorry about that. I should've payed closer attention.

Thanks,

nv

Riverside_Guy

10-23-07, 12:00 PM

What type of issues? (I recently installed a 500g and I'm under 50% at this time).

Many folks report far more "glitching" on shows that are recorded to the external drive as evident of an incompatibility. Which seems odd to me as observation in a system without an external drive absolutely points to squeezed bandwidth creating almost unwatchable content due to said "glitching."

My market had that in spades when ESPN2 HD was added. Over the course of the next few months it gradually got better. BUT one of my homies documented how they had started doing more "rate shaping."

Riverside_Guy

10-23-07, 12:05 PM

Only for Passport users. You do know you can record the program and get the "trick play" functions back, don't you?

Dave, the problem is that there must be some sequence of dos and don'ts to be successful with that. Twice I tried to mimic the advice, I'm watching something, I need to be away for 1/2 hour, I hit record and end up with a recording of everything I have already watched that ends at the point I hit record.

DoubleDAZ

10-23-07, 01:16 PM

Dave, the problem is that there must be some sequence of dos and don'ts to be successful with that. Twice I tried to mimic the advice, I'm watching something, I need to be away for 1/2 hour, I hit record and end up with a recording of everything I have already watched that ends at the point I hit record.Yeah, I've seen posts that mentioned that. Probably a difference in versions or something. Never hurts to try though. I probably should have said "might get". :)

Btw, has anyone tried pressing Record a second time to see if it would then start recording from that point on? It seems the first time, it is simply emptying the buffer.

scott_bernstein

10-23-07, 01:24 PM

Dave, the problem is that there must be some sequence of dos and don'ts to be successful with that. Twice I tried to mimic the advice, I'm watching something, I need to be away for 1/2 hour, I hit record and end up with a recording of everything I have already watched that ends at the point I hit record.
This works virtually flawlessly for me here in NYC, on the same platform version.

If you want to increase your chance that everything will work just fine, flip away from the channel momentarily (to clear the buffer), flip back to the channel, and then press record. This will make sure that you're getting the program from that point forward....

DoubleDAZ

10-23-07, 01:25 PM

Many folks report far more "glitching" on shows that are recorded to the external drive as evident of an incompatibility. Which seems odd to me as observation in a system without an external drive absolutely points to squeezed bandwidth creating almost unwatchable content due to said "glitching."

My market had that in spades when ESPN2 HD was added. Over the course of the next few months it gradually got better. BUT one of my homies documented how they had started doing more "rate shaping."There is no doubt rate-shaping, as you call it, has an impact, but there have been plenty of reports where the glitches simply went away once the SATA drive was disconnected and recording reverted to the internal drive. I'm sure both things are at play depending on location, drive, etc. It's always recommended that folks disconnect the drive to see if the glitches go away. This would point to a drive/connection problem vs rate-shaping.

Also, with larger drives, there might be a speed problem causing glitches as the drive fills up. I know that doesn't really make much sense, but we don't know exactly how the data is written to or read from the drive. We know how PCs do it, but not specifically how the 8300 does it. Lack if definitive info always leads to speculation and some (heated) discussion. :)

scott_bernstein

10-23-07, 01:35 PM

There is no doubt rate-shaping, as you call it, has an impact, but there have been plenty of reports where the glitches simply went away once the SATA drive was disconnected and recording reverted to the internal drive. I'm sure both things are at play depending on location, drive, etc. It's always recommended that folks disconnect the drive to see if the glitches go away. This would point to a drive/connection problem vs rate-shaping.

Also, with larger drives, there might be a speed problem causing glitches as the drive fills up. I know that doesn't really make much sense, but we don't know exactly how the data is written to or read from the drive. We know how PCs do it, but not specifically how the 8300 does it. Lack if definitive info always leads to speculation and some (heated) discussion. :)
I can personally attest to this. I had a seagate external SATA drive hooked up for nearly a year, and dealt with 1-3 "glitches" every 30 minutes.

Of course I eventually filled that drive up and needed a bunch of space when I was going out of town for the weekend, so I bought a 2nd hard drive (a Western Digital, touted in its specs as being "rated for streaming video" or something like that) so I'd have enough space to record the entire UHD coverage of the Live Earth concert while I was away.

And now I've left the WD hooked up because I am experiencing none of the glitching I saw with the Seagate.

Go figure.....Same SATA housing, same power supply, same cables, same SA8300HD running the same version of Passport -- just MUCH smoother operation with a SERIOUS reduction in glitches.....

(BTW -- my info is in the database)

As a side note, I have ALWAYS noticed smoother operation (less chance of "glitching") when whatever program I'm watching has recorded to the internal drive (which happens when your internal drive has more free space on it than your external drive). My external housing has a light on it that blinks when it's being accessed. You can tell which drive any program is on in the following manner:
1. Tune both of your tuners to "non-recordable" channels (in my area, I tune one tuner to an "on demand" channel, press "swap", and then tune the other to a different "on demand" channel). This will stop your 8300 from buffering.
2. Note that the drive light (assuming you have one) on your external should go out.
3. Select a program to play back. If the drive light blinks while it's playing back, it's on the external drive. If it doesn't, it's on the internal drive.

Scott

bb09

10-23-07, 08:19 PM

Hey guys,

Man, reading all these posts combined with my lack of technical knowledge in the hard drive connection area I decided I should just add my own post. I am looking to add an external drive to my 8300HD from Cablevision (NJ). Based off of the images on the first post, my guide looks like the SARA version. On the Cablevision website, they recommend the WD My DVR Expander and the Apricorn (ADVRX-500 or ADVRX-750) ...links for both provided below.

Looking at the database provided on the first post, it looks like both pass, but I would like to hear some personal experiences if possible. Also, I can't find anyone selling the WD model, so if you have it, where did you get it?

With the Apricorn model, I am assuming what is on the link below for $180 is all I need (plus possibly a better cable). I have read other posts that sound like the Apricorn is a case and you have to buy a drive to put in it?

Sorry, I am just really confused, but I am also tired of having to rush through and watch shows to free up room to record other shows or not having enough space to tape a sporting event I want to watch later because I only have like 15% space left. Also, I don't need an external drive for my PC, so I want to be sure to have something that works.

WD
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=334

Apricorn
http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=37

Spencercat

10-23-07, 10:20 PM

I'm also in the Cablevision boat, and just upgraded my 8300 with a Beyond Micro 320 GB external HDD (500 GB was OOS), for $99 delivered.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822709021

After a couple of reboots, I was able to get it to work and watched some shows off of it today. Best thing, it came with the right cable in the box!

Spencercat

dannyv@cybernex.

10-24-07, 08:56 AM

bb09

10-24-07, 09:19 AM

I use cablevision and am located in northern NJ. I've used the following for about 6 months now and it works perfectly.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817362002

The cable included with the enclosure works fine.

Hooked up easly
no glitching
no early termination of recordings

Does everything work normal (FF, REW, etc.)? This would be about $40 cheaper. How many HD hours do you have now? I am assuming yours is SARA and not Passport?

Riverside_Guy

10-24-07, 09:24 AM

This works virtually flawlessly for me here in NYC, on the same platform version.

If you want to increase your chance that everything will work just fine, flip away from the channel momentarily (to clear the buffer), flip back to the channel, and then press record. This will make sure that you're getting the program from that point forward....

Ah, logic says that may work. However, I adopted the "record it, watch it" attitude that so far seems to be working... i.e. do NOT let things pileup on the drive.

DoubleDAZ

10-24-07, 09:32 AM

Does everything work normal (FF, REW, etc.)? This would be about $40 cheaper. How many HD hours do you have now? I am assuming yours is SARA and not Passport?If you looked at his signature, he is indeed using SARA and all functions work for live viewing with SARA. Passport has the "trick play" problems, but that doesn't have anything to do with any particular drive/enclosure. It's simply a problem with Passport when any external drive is connected.

Riverside_Guy

10-24-07, 09:35 AM

Go figure.....Same SATA housing, same power supply, same cables, same SA8300HD running the same version of Passport -- just MUCH smoother operation with a SERIOUS reduction in glitches.....

Scott

I assume none of your observations happened around this past June? 6/15 they added ESPN2 HD and I remember the glitching was SO horrendous that many shows were essentially unwatchable (also a good pal who I have been suggesting get into HD finally took the step and got one, only to hit this excessive glitching). It very slowly and gradually got better... and your note about additional rate shaping to reduce bandwidth sure as hell pointed to the "why" it slowly got better.

I'm NOT trying to say that glitching has no relationship to an external drive, just that there clearly ARE other causes for it.

I guess glitching is a better term term skippage <g>!

bb09

10-24-07, 09:36 AM

If you looked at his signature, he is indeed using SARA and all functions work for live viewing with SARA. Passport has the "trick play" problems, but that doesn't have anything to do with any particular drive/enclosure. It's simply a problem with Passport when any external drive is connected.

duh....I always forget to look at sigs.

DoubleDAZ

10-24-07, 10:00 AM

duh....I always forget to look at sigs.Understandable. These 8300 threads are some of the few where we use signatures (or the area below your User ID) to identify type/version so we don't have to keep asking for it or remembering to post it. So much, especially in this thread, depends on this info for accurate answers. :)

bb09

10-24-07, 11:07 AM

I use cablevision and am located in northern NJ. I've used the following for about 6 months now and it works perfectly.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817362002

The cable included with the enclosure works fine.

Hooked up easly
no glitching
no early termination of recordings

Wow, I checked the database a quite a few people use this case/drive combo or case/differnt drive combo and MOST have worked flawlessly. I may have to give this a shot. Worst case, I'll use the drive on my PC.

dannyv@cybernex.

10-24-07, 12:44 PM

Does everything work normal (FF, REW, etc.)? This would be about $40 cheaper. How many HD hours do you have now? I am assuming yours is SARA and not Passport?

That is correct I'm on SARA and all functions (FF, REW, PAUSE jump back 5 sec ETC..) work correctly. I record any where from 3-6 shows a night and quite frequently watch one prerecorded show while recording 2 other shows. So over 6 months I would consider that heavy use but I'm sure you can do the math. I originally started with a 320GB WD YS (server grade drive) which quickly burned up but the 500GB AAKS drive has been used for about 4 months and works great. I do know there have been a lot of problems with long gevity with the YS series drives in server and PC applications so I wouldn't blame the drive failure on the 8300HD. The feed back about the AAKS series as it applies to the 8300HD has been very positive. So that combination of drive and enclosure in my opinion is a very wise choice.

PatG25

10-24-07, 08:35 PM

I
1. Tune both of your tuners to "non-recordable" channels (in my area, I tune one tuner to an "on demand" channel, press "swap", and then tune the other to a different "on demand" channel). This will stop your 8300 from buffering.
2. Note that the drive light (assuming you have one) on your external should go out.
3. Select a program to play back. If the drive light blinks while it's playing back, it's on the external drive. If it doesn't, it's on the internal drive.

Scott

The Swap button on my 8300HD remote doesn't do anything. It is on the bottom of the remote with other PiP buttons. Is there another Swap buttons? I haven't figured out a way to swap between tuners.

WSZsr

10-24-07, 08:49 PM

I've found that eSATA only hard drives work - not eSATA/USB combo interfaces, etc.

dack70

10-25-07, 09:41 AM

I apologize if this has already been asked and answered. I'm at work right now and I don't have time to read through every post. I want to buy an external hard drive to connect to my DVR. Here is what I'm looking at:

- I have TWC 8300HDC with Navigator (not sure which version) - I'm in Syracuse, NY

- I'm looking to buy the Western Digital 500GB external HD model # WDG1S5000

I called TWC, to ask about compatibility and they have yet to get back to me. Will this combo work? When I hook the external drive up, will my existing shows stored on my 8300HDC be erased? Any other suggestions?

DoubleDAZ

10-25-07, 09:49 AM

xnappo

10-25-07, 10:00 AM

I've found that eSATA only hard drives work - not eSATA/USB combo interfaces, etc.

eSATA only is a good idea, however the Apricorn enclosure has USB and eSATA and is the most successful case in the database.

xnappo

rooobosmith

10-25-07, 11:46 AM

I just got the I-Rocks eSata/USB case at Meritline (http://meritline.com/i-rock-3-5-hdd-enclosure.html) for $10 AR + ship. Rebate expires 10/29.

Comes with eSata cable & bridge and works with the Maxtor 320GB sata and Navigator.

Good deal.

davehancock

10-25-07, 12:14 PM

bb09

10-25-07, 12:17 PM

That is correct I'm on SARA and all functions (FF, REW, PAUSE jump back 5 sec ETC..) work correctly. I record any where from 3-6 shows a night and quite frequently watch one prerecorded show while recording 2 other shows. So over 6 months I would consider that heavy use but I'm sure you can do the math. I originally started with a 320GB WD YS (server grade drive) which quickly burned up but the 500GB AAKS drive has been used for about 4 months and works great. I do know there have been a lot of problems with long gevity with the YS series drives in server and PC applications so I wouldn't blame the drive failure on the 8300HD. The feed back about the AAKS series as it applies to the 8300HD has been very positive. So that combination of drive and enclosure in my opinion is a very wise choice.

Well, I think I am now leaning towards the fully enclosed Apricorn (ADVRX-500) rather than the the combo you suggested above with the Apricorn external case. When you add taxes (I live in NJ) and shipping, there is not much savings. Plus the enclosed Apricorn is rocommended by Cablevision and others on this site have not had problems with it (at least in the posts I got when I pulled up the searched the thread for the model number).

dack70

10-25-07, 12:17 PM

Can't answer directly, but did you check the Navigator database (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/navigator)?
I just checked it out. Looks like one guy had good luck with the same setup I want to get! I guess the only other thing I would like to see, is multiple people with the same setup claiming success. Anyone else out there have this setup working? (8300HDC & WDG1S5000)

Thanks for the link!

dack70

10-25-07, 12:22 PM

I'm pretty sure that TW in Syracuse has SARA. So getting a SA8300HDC does not switch you to Navigator, like Passport systems do. So you want to check the SARA database instead of the Navigator one.
wow. You're kidding. All this time I thought I had Navigator. To tell the truth, I have no idea how to tell the difference. Anyone care to enlighten me?

davehancock

10-25-07, 12:44 PM

wow. You're kidding. All this time I thought I had Navigator. To tell the truth, I have no idea how to tell the difference. Anyone care to enlighten me?Check the first page: Shows Passport vs SARA.

scott_bernstein

10-25-07, 06:13 PM

The Swap button on my 8300HD remote doesn't do anything. It is on the bottom of the remote with other PiP buttons. Is there another Swap buttons? I haven't figured out a way to swap between tuners.

It works A-OK on my setup with Passport and an 8300HD. It is actually one of the only features that has NEVER broken through the years of various Passport updates. ;)

If you don't have Passport, I can't help you. If you do have Passport, maybe you need to "swap" for a new remote from your local cable service office. At least here, they don't charge for swapping out a broken remote.....

dack70

10-25-07, 06:16 PM

PatG25

10-25-07, 08:31 PM

It works A-OK on my setup with Passport and an 8300HD. It is actually one of the only features that has NEVER broken through the years of various Passport updates. ;)

If you don't have Passport, I can't help you. If you do have Passport, maybe you need to "swap" for a new remote from your local cable service office. At least here, they don't charge for swapping out a broken remote.....

I have Sara 1.88.25. Does everyone with Sara know if the Swap button works. I am trying to set both tuners to a music station so the hard drive defrags. Does anyone know if the external HD gets defraged at the same time?

DoubleDAZ

10-25-07, 09:18 PM

A TWC Tech Manager called and left me a message, after I called and asked for advice on which SATA ext drive to buy for my 8300HDC box. (I called because that's what the manual said to do) Well, it was no suprise to me when the tech said he isn't allowed to give me advice on an ext drive because TWC does not support that feature. He said we are welcome to use the SATA connection, but he warned me that when they go to upgrade my SARA software to Navigator, all of my recorded shows would probably be erased.

A couple things suprised me. First, I had no idea we were going to get upgraded to Navigator (Syracuse). Second, does this mean that even my recorded shows that are stored on the 8300HDC will get erased as well?! If this is true, I would hope TWC would give it's customers a heads up before they change the software on our DVRs.

If I do decide to buy a SATA external HD to hook up to my DVR, and by some chance the Navigator software completely breaks the connection, can I use my SATA drive with my PC? I'm pretty sure I have spare SATA connections "inside" my PC, but I don't know if there is a good way to hook up an external drive.All TWC sysytems will eventually get Navigator, it is going to be their in-house DVR software.

And, when you do get it, you probably will lose all your recordings (doesn't matter which 8300 you have), that seems to be the case so far. And, there has not been any prior notice, so all you can do is keep watching what is importatn as soon as possible.

However, losing your recordings just means that you have to start recording all over. It does not necessarily mean that you will not be able to continue using your SATA drive, so don't fire up the PC just yet. :)

DoubleDAZ

10-25-07, 09:23 PM

I have Sara 1.88.25. Does everyone with Sara know if the Swap button works. I am trying to set both tuners to a music station so the hard drive defrags. Does anyone know if the external HD gets defraged at the same time?The Swap button works on SARA, but only when you have PIP turned on.

Why are you trying to defrag? There is absolutely no reason to do so unless you are trying different things to troubleshoot a problem. In fact, I may just take that out of the first post as there's been no definitive proof that there is even a defrag happening and too many people are trying to use the 8300 as if it were a PC.

nihilan

10-25-07, 09:52 PM

Did you only use the eSata cables supplied with the enclosures? I have not had a glitch since I started using a $20 eStata cable with an Apricorn.

No, I bought a $20 cable. I think you posted the link to it. Didn't change a thing unfortunately. I've tried 3 different cables actually.

Thanks for the help though!

pepar

10-25-07, 10:05 PM

No, I bought a $20 cable. I think you posted the link to it. Didn't change a thing unfortunately. I've tried 3 different cables actually.
Check the cable connections inside the enclosure.

DoubleDAZ

10-26-07, 12:30 AM

I noticed a couple of days ago that the first post doesn't include a link to the Navigator database. So, rather than edit it and contact DMILANI to repost it, I asked CPanther95 if it was possible to reassign the first post to someone else here. Unfortunately, the answer was No.

In light of that, I thought about starting a new thread, but that would kind of lose a lot of info. I know, it would still be accessible, but that's just not the same no matter how you slice it.

So, I'd like to explore the idea of changing the first post to simply a single link. The link would be to a new "First" Post that we (someone who expects to remain active in this thread for the foreseeable future) would be able to maintain easier and more current than what's there now.

I know some would like to see the thread split into 3 parts, but I still believe there would be too much overlap. I think a new post could divide the unique info enough to satisfy that desire while keeping everything accessible to all without having to keep up with 3 threads.

Comments?

PatG25

10-26-07, 01:15 PM

The Swap button works on SARA, but only when you have PIP turned on.

Why are you trying to defrag? There is absolutely no reason to do so unless you are trying different things to troubleshoot a problem. In fact, I may just take that out of the first post as there's been no definitive proof that there is even a defrag happening and too many people are trying to use the 8300 as if it were a PC.

Thanks for the info. I never use PiP, so it is probably not turned on. The only reason I am trying to defrag is because of the first post. I didn't think it was necessary since large files are stored on the HD. It is not like a PC with a huge amount of small files. But I figured in can't hurt, either.

nihilan

10-26-07, 02:48 PM

Check the cable connections inside the enclosure.

I've tried 2 different enclosures. Assuming that's the problem, what should I be looking for?

pepar

10-26-07, 02:54 PM

I've tried 2 different enclosures. Assuming that's the problem, what should I be looking for?
Slightly loose and/or misaligned connectors. Look closely. Better yet, re-seat them all. SATA connections, especially the "internal" kind are exceptionally dodgy. Not saying that's your problem with two enclosures, but it's work a try.

Good luck!

DoubleDAZ

10-26-07, 07:47 PM

Thanks for the info. I never use PiP, so it is probably not turned on. The only reason I am trying to defrag is because of the first post. I didn't think it was necessary since large files are stored on the HD. It is not like a PC with a huge amount of small files. But I figured in can't hurt, either.I believe with Passport, the Swap button switches tuners whithout having to turn PIP on. I would apprecaite it if you turned PIP on and tried the Swap button to make sure I'm giving you accurate info. :)

danno321s

10-26-07, 09:11 PM

Is there going to be an upcoming fix so that one can instant replay live TV when using an eSATA drive?

Dan
TWC SE Wisc, Passport

DoubleDAZ

10-26-07, 09:13 PM

Is there going to be an upcoming fix so that one can instant replay live TV when using an eSATA drive?I think the current wisdom is that Passport is too close to being replaced by Navigator throughout TWC, so there will be no more Passport updates released to TWC customers.

Riverside_Guy

10-27-07, 09:44 AM

Here's a pisser for y'all. Bare Feats (http://www.barefeats.com/) just did a comparison among... terabyte drives! By a significant margin, Seagate took the crown!

xnappo

10-27-07, 09:54 AM

Here's a pisser for y'all. Bare Feats (http://www.barefeats.com/) just did a comparison among... terabyte drives! By a significant margin, Seagate took the crown!

I don't think anyone has tried a 7200.11 yet... Maybe it will work? 7200.3 drives came out after 7200.10, and they seem to work with the box pretty well.

xnappo

pepar

10-27-07, 10:06 AM

Here's a pisser for y'all. Bare Feats (http://www.barefeats.com/) just did a comparison among... terabyte drives! By a significant margin, Seagate took the crown!
A Raptor killer?? Oh no, say it isn't so. :eek:

pepar

10-27-07, 10:14 AM

Here (http://www.storagereview.com/1000.sr) is a very in-depth comparison of the Hitachi and Seagate's Barracuda ES.2 and WD's Caviar GreenPower. The ES.2 is the enterprise-grade version of Seagate's consumer-oriented Barracuda 7200.11. The comparison is worth a read, but they conclude "When it comes to sheer single-user performance, the newest offerings from Seagate and Western Digital cannot touch Hitachi's mighty Deskstar 7K1000. Those seeking the ultimate in capacity and speed remain with the 7K1000 as their only choice." That is completely at odds to what Bare Feats concluded. One of them is wrong.

danno321s

10-27-07, 03:18 PM

I think the current wisdom is that Passport is too close to being replaced by Navigator throughout TWC, so there will be no more Passport updates released to TWC customers.

Does Navigator handle instant replay properly with an eSATA drive? With Passport, if I hit Skip Back, it goes to where I started watching and then I can't fast forward at all.

jfbuchanan

10-27-07, 04:31 PM

If I do decide to buy a SATA external HD to hook up to my DVR, and by some chance the Navigator software completely breaks the connection, can I use my SATA drive with my PC? I'm pretty sure I have spare SATA connections "inside" my PC, but I don't know if there is a good way to hook up an external drive.

After disappointing results with an ESATA drive and my 8300HDC I ended up adding the 500GB external drive to my PC. I used an adapter plate to make the connection from the internal SATA on the PC motherboard to the ESATA. Google "dual sata esata plate" to get a link for the adapter plate I used.

Once the drive was connected and powered up I went into the PC BIOS and enabled the SATA port for the new drive. The PC recognized the drive and told me the hard drive manufacturer (Western Digital) and model number. I then used the model number to go to the Western Digital website and download the driver software for it. After installing the driver software, the PC was able to access the drive with no problems. All in all, a pretty simple upgrade for the PC and it took some of the sting away from the disappointing results with the 8300HDC.

PatG25

10-27-07, 08:16 PM

I believe with Passport, the Swap button switches tuners whithout having to turn PIP on. I would apprecaite it if you turned PIP on and tried the Swap button to make sure I'm giving you accurate info. :)

Swap button does not work with PiP off. Works fine with PiP on, but then you have the little window up; which is a pain in the a** if all you want to do is switch quickly between two channels

DoubleDAZ

10-27-07, 09:40 PM

Swap button does not work with PiP off. Works fine with PiP on, but then you have the little window up; which is a pain in the a** if all you want to do is switch quickly between two channelsSorry, but I have to ask, have you read any of the remote User's Guide to see what the dfferent buttons do? If all you are trying to do is switch between the same 2 channels a lot, like between 2 ballgames or something, simply hit the LAST button and it will take you back and forth. PiP is there to keep track of 2 channels at the same time and the Swap button is there to change the Active windowl, mostly for the audio.

Manatus

10-27-07, 10:39 PM

If I do decide to buy a SATA external HD to hook up to my DVR, and by some chance the Navigator software completely breaks the connection, can I use my SATA drive with my PC? I'm pretty sure I have spare SATA connections "inside" my PC, but I don't know if there is a good way to hook up an external drive.

No problem. If you have a free drive bay in the PC, just remove the SATA drive from its external enclosure and install it there. That's what I did when I replaced the 320 GB drive that I'd used with my 8300HD with a larger drive and moved the old drive to a PC. Or you can leave the SATA in its case and hook it up using an adapter like the one that's included with the Apricorn enclosure. It features a bracket with a SATA connector that sits at the back of a PC expansion slot, to which an external drive can be connected, and a cable that plugs into the PC's SATA controller.

guruuno

10-29-07, 07:56 AM

Optimum Online Metuchen NJ, have a Seagate 750GB HD in a Antec Veris MX-1 case, for several months now working without issue.
(SARA, 8300HD)

Last few days, having early termination of random recordings, and sssstttuuuuddderrriiinggg from time to time.

To do what to fix, different HD, case??

Need stability, consistency and any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

xnappo

10-29-07, 09:09 AM

Optimum Online Metuchen NJ, have a Seagate 750GB HD in a Antec Veris MX-1 case, for several months now working without issue.
(SARA, 8300HD)

Seagate 7200.10? Known issue - look in the database for a more suitable drive.

xnappo

guruuno

10-29-07, 09:52 AM

pepar

10-29-07, 10:01 AM

Thankz xnappo, could you just tell me, without my brain siezing up digesting the database, as to a simple cut and dry, use this, this is the best, least problems, works recommendation?

Appreciate it, truly.
The whole purpose of xnappo going to the trouble of setting up and maintaining the database, and then us cajoling everyone to use it is for the members to look at and draw their own conclusions. It is NOT for xnappo to analyze and then tell everyone what to do. Besides, there are a number of successful drives and enclosures. You've been shown how to fish, now go fish. ;)

davehancock

10-29-07, 12:17 PM

The whole purpose of xnappo going to the trouble of setting up and maintaining the database, and then us cajoling everyone to use it is for the members to look at and draw their own conclusions. It is NOT for xnappo to analyze and then tell everyone what to do. Besides, there are a number of successful drives and enclosures. You've been shown how to fish, now go fish. ;)Nicely said.:)

I constantly find it amazing how folks have expectations that internet forums will provide them with instant, accurate, and pre-digested answers for FREE.

pepar

10-29-07, 12:30 PM

Nicely said.:)
Not too cranky? :D

dannyv@cybernex.

10-29-07, 12:59 PM

Nicely said.:)

I constantly find it amazing how folks have expectations that internet forums will provide them with instant, accurate, and pre-digested answers for FREE.

Answer price list

correct answers = $5.00
Educated Guesses = $3.00
Incorrect answers = $1.00
Dumb looks = free:)

pepar

10-29-07, 01:05 PM

Answer price list

correct answers = $5.00
Educated Guesses = $3.00
Incorrect answers = $1.00
Dumb looks = free:)
xnappo should put that in his sig.

guruuno

10-29-07, 03:05 PM

Oh PLEASE! Go Fish for your A**. THe Internet is full of info, the purpose of forums and other means of dissemiating information is to help. I was here months ago getting grief for *some* of you buttholes, but others were very helpful. Get it. The keyword is *helpful*. I bought 2 hard drives, 2 external cases, 3 different cables, and ate most of them until I got it "right". Now, after time, and testing, it has been determined that there are 'known issues' with a specific configuration. So, I ask, "which is the 'preferred' setup/combo of equipment", and I get jerks that tell me to go fishing, others that I shoul pay someone, and more to tell me, look for yourself, don't bother us.

Am I on drugs or do the buttfaces that answer in such ways feel like they own the information?

Major oooooooooofffffffffffff!

pepar

10-29-07, 03:13 PM

If we "owned it" it wouldn't be at a free link on the World Wide Web, now would it? If you were here before, then you were directed to the database. All of your problems stem from your not following our suggestions then.

guruuno

10-29-07, 03:29 PM

Maybe I'm retarded and need help. Do you always assume someone can figure it all out? If I remember correctly, I had stated way back when, about sifting through 180+ pages of data, and trying to make sense of it all. I know it ain't me dude.

pepar

10-29-07, 03:41 PM

There are quite a few successful drives and enclosures. I tend to recommend eSATA enclosures only. Others maintain that a well-designed enclosure with eSATA and USB work fine. Mine works. Theirs works, too. I could tell you what I have (or you could find it on the Passport database ;) ), but you may decide you're OK with a more available eSATA/USB enclosure. I could tell you that I also strongly recommend drives that are optimized for streaming video, but Riverside_Guy would roll his eyes and pooh-pooh it as smoke and mirrors. Mine works, but others have drives that are NOT optimized for streaming video they work just fine.

If you previously posted your software, software version and cable company, I'm sorry I missed it. There are three different databases, one for each of the three common softwares. What works for one may not work (so well) for the others.

So again, you really need to look at the databases yourself to decide what to spend YOUR money on.

:)

edit: Reading 100+ pages is daunting for sure. However, I can tell you it is generally accepted on all forums that a new member do as much reading as possible for themselves to come up to speed. Think of the threads as groups of people having a conversation. And then imagine that everything that has been said in that group is archived for all to read. Now further imagine that a new person walks up to that group and asks a question that had been discussed and answered five miinutes before he got there. Or, in the case of xnappo's database 500 times before he got there. Can you understand how some in that group could roll their eyes and be less than helpful?

davehancock

10-29-07, 05:55 PM

Reading 100+ pages is daunting for sure. However, I can tell you it is generally accepted on all forums that a new member do as much reading as possible for themselves to come up to speed. Think of the threads as groups of people having a conversation. And then imagine that everything that has been said in that group is archived for all to read. Now further imagine that a new person walks up to that group and asks a question that had been discussed and answered five miinutes before he got there. Or, in the case of xnappo's database 500 times before he got there. Can you understand how some in that group could roll their eyes and be less than helpful?pepar, again well said. I would have added that in many cases (this one included) reading the first post in a thread is always a good idea. The very first thing are links to xnappo's databases.;)

But perhaps he really touched on it when he said:
Maybe I'm retarded and need help.

bb09

10-29-07, 06:07 PM

But perhaps he really touched on it when he said:

uncalled for.

Sorry I can't help you guruuno, I am new to adding an HD to my DVR also. You can see from my other posts in this thread that I am leaning toward the Apricorn (HD and case) or the My DVR extender since those are recommended by Cablevision.

pepar

10-29-07, 06:33 PM

Sorry I can't help you guruuno, I am new to adding an HD to my DVR also. You can see from my other posts in this thread that I am leaning toward the Apricorn (HD and case) or the My DVR extender since those are recommended by Cablevision.
That any cable company now recommends an external expansion solution is astounding and should be taken seriously. It means that they will, at least, help you if you call with a problem. The norm up until this was (is!) that they blow you off with "we don't support external drives."

pepar

10-29-07, 06:35 PM

pepar, again well said.
Thanks, Dave. :)

bb09

10-29-07, 06:59 PM

That any cable company now recommends an external expansion solution is astounding and should be taken seriously. It means that they will, at least, help you if you call with a problem. The norm up until this was (is!) that they blow you off with "we don't support external drives."

The support many eSATA drives, but recommend the two I mentioned.....here's the link with Cablevisions take on adding more storage space....

http://optimum.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/optimum.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2135&p_created=1170339698&p_sid=mOtwCqPi&p_accessibility=&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ 9NCZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2V hcmNoX3RleHQ9ZXh0ZXJuYWwgZHZy&p_li=&p_topview=1

pepar

10-29-07, 07:11 PM

The support many eSATA drives, but recommend the two I mentioned.....here's the link with Cablevisions take on adding more storage space....
I've seen all of that except for the "recommendations." Interesting.

KY Joe

10-29-07, 08:42 PM

Thanks to everyone for the info posted here, and a special thanks to xnappo for the database. This has been a great assistance to me. I tried two unsuccessful setups before finding this forum. With assistance from this site, I now have a functioning combination, and I have added data for my three attempts to the database.

For those who are interested in what's inside the FreeAgent Pro 500 GB, see the comments for my second entry in the database.

I'm sure this won't be a surprise to those who have been around here for a while, but we can add Cox Cable Central Florida to the list of providers who are no help at all. Same old story: The SATA port is activated, but we don't support external drives. Despite all of the results in the database, Scientific Atlanta tech support says that the FreeAgent Pro and Seagate 7200.10 will work but no recommendation for an enclosure for the 7200.10.

guruuno

10-29-07, 09:22 PM

DoubleDAZ

10-29-07, 09:31 PM

The support many eSATA drives, but recommend the two I mentioned.....here's the link with Cablevisions take on adding more storage space....

http://optimum.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/optimum.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2135&p_created=1170339698&p_sid=mOtwCqPi&p_accessibility=&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ 9NCZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2V hcmNoX3RleHQ9ZXh0ZXJuYWwgZHZy&p_li=&p_topview=1Boy! I'm sorry I had to work today and missed out on all the fun. :)

So, let me get this straight. When guruuno (or anyone else for that matter) goes out, buys one of those recommended drives, and finds out it doesn't work for them, who should he then contact for help? You? Cablevision? Anyone?

The purpose of this thread, and xnappo's databases, is to provide information for folks to weigh and make their own decision. That is basically all pepar (and the other Dave) said. If you want a single item that is virtually guaranteed to work, then pay the premium for the Maxtor Quickview Expander.

What? You don't want to pay that much? Then do your homework and make a decision to try something else, but don't beat someone up simply because no one here will tell you what you should buy.

If you read the applicable database and then have a question about a specific dirve, that is one thing. But, to just throw out the question of what should you buy because you don't feel like reading 180 pages of posts or the databases, I think that's asking too much and you should expect a less than helpful response, even though that response was simply trying to tell you that there is no finite solution. But I guess that's just me, pepar, and The Other Dave. :)

I should add that I sincerely believe this thread, with all it's non-responses, has helped countless folks expand their storage capacity and will continue to do so in the future.

DoubleDAZ

10-29-07, 09:40 PM

With all the different combinations in the "database", one might consider kinda figuring out why there are so many variables, and what makes the DVR Xpander the preferred "device of choice", finally ending all of the trial and error that has been happening for so long.I don't understand this at all, especially after the recent "discussions".

Do you really think that if someone here were actually capable of doing just that, they wouuldn't have done so by now? Obviously, the Maxtor folks know the answer you are looking for, but they are in business to sell a product, not provide their research to us.

Just about everyone here knows the Expanded works, but they prefer to go cheaper and roll one of their own, in spite of the trials and tribulations they may face. Even you, after finding that the Expander should work, now want to piddle around and find out if the drive they use will work in a different case. This seems totally contrary to your original post/question, at least IMHO.

bb09

10-29-07, 10:14 PM

So, let me get this straight. When guruuno (or anyone else for that matter) goes out, buys one of those recommended drives, and finds out it doesn't work for therm, who should he then contact for help? You? Cablevision? Anyone?

I don't care what he does or what you do. I posted what was on Cablevision's website and what I was leaning towards. I have had bad experiences "piecing" my own systems together and would prefer one of the "pre-packaged" expanders. Both expanders are in xnappo's database and both have no or minor issues.That's my preference. Do I expect Cablevision to provide support if it doesn't work? No, I will go to Apricorn or Western Digital as I would have to do if I had bought an HD and an enclosure.

bb09

10-29-07, 10:18 PM

DVR Xpander looks like the answer.
Anyone know why this particular manufacturer works?
Is it the internals of the enclosure, chipset?
Anyone know which HD is inside?
I'd most likely buy one, but before I did, I'd at least try to test (to be a nice guy and post back here) as to if it worked (the identical HD inside the DVR Xpander) as well with the Antec MX1 case, or if indeed, it did not, and it was the case/electronics.

With all the different combinations in the "database", one might consider kinda figuring out why there are so many variables, and what makes the DVR Xpander the preferred "device of choice", finally ending all of the trial and error that has been happening for so long.

If somebody has a "as specified by Cablevision" unit that works, and can attest to what, why, and so forth, it might be a good thing.

I'd gladly do it if pepar says he's sorry! :(

If you check Apricorn's website, it was developed specifically for the 8300HD. That's why it appears to work. Keep in mind, Cablevision only recommends it because it was designed specifically for use with the SA 8300HD. Does it mean it WILL work, who knows, but those that have used it and posted results to the database seem to have had success. I think I saw one post where the guy has some problems with the xpander, replaced the cable that came with it and the problems went away.

pepar

10-29-07, 10:33 PM

I'd gladly do it if pepar says he's sorry! :(
But guruuno, don't you know that being a buttface means never having to say you're sorry? ;)

dannyv@cybernex.

10-30-07, 09:19 AM

DVR Xpander looks like the answer.
Anyone know why this particular manufacturer works?
Is it the internals of the enclosure, chipset?
Anyone know which HD is inside?
I'd most likely buy one, but before I did, I'd at least try to test (to be a nice guy and post back here) as to if it worked (the identical HD inside the DVR Xpander) as well with the Antec MX1 case, or if indeed, it did not, and it was the case/electronics.

With all the different combinations in the "database", one might consider kinda figuring out why there are so many variables, and what makes the DVR Xpander the preferred "device of choice", finally ending all of the trial and error that has been happening for so long.

If somebody has a "as specified by Cablevision" unit that works, and can attest to what, why, and so forth, it might be a good thing.

I'd gladly do it if pepar says he's sorry! :(

I think I had answered you on this once before.
I'm on cablevision in northern NJ and like you I have gone through 3 combinations until I found one that worked.

enclosure:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817362002

Drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

If I offended you with my price list comment I appologize but with a little reasearch you would have found that this combination is very prevelent in the database and is the most successful combination for sara and passport.

xnappo

10-30-07, 10:46 AM

enclosure:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817362002

Drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

I concur that this is the most successful combo in the database. However as others have said, I don't really want to say 'buy this' because there are some failures and I don't want to be responsible if it doesn't work. Plus one should be able to tell this is the most successful combo from a quick look at the database. Perhaps it isn't obvious you can click on the column headers to sort by Pass/Fail , vendor etc?

xnappo

Riverside_Guy

10-30-07, 11:31 AM

Riverside_Guy

10-30-07, 11:42 AM

That any cable company now recommends an external expansion solution is astounding and should be taken seriously. It means that they will, at least, help you if you call with a problem. The norm up until this was (is!) that they blow you off with "we don't support external drives."

Indeed I'd fall off my chair if I read some cable company actually doing that! You know of one such?

If I had to "support" the software TWC-NYC put on my DVR I very much would NEVER support external storage solutions.

Maybe they make a big deal when they force Nagivator on all of us... as a way of trying to obscure how god awful it seems to be, ESPECIALLY as a replacement for what we have now.

NB... OUCH, I hit my head falling out of my chair by reading the post about Cablevision which was "after" I made the above comment! Does Cablevision so only SARA?

bb09

10-30-07, 12:05 PM

NB... OUCH, I hit my head falling out of my chair by reading the post about Cablevision which was "after" I made the above comment! Does Cablevision so only SARA?

From what I've read/seen in the DB, it seems that Cablevision is only SARA. Mine is. Doesn't mean it's 100% true though.

dannyv@cybernex.

10-30-07, 12:46 PM

I concur that this is the most successful combo in the database. However as others have said, I don't really want to say 'buy this' because there are some failures and I don't want to be responsible if it doesn't work. Plus one should be able to tell this is the most successful combo from a quick look at the database. Perhaps it isn't obvious you can click on the column headers to sort by Pass/Fail , vendor etc?

xnappo

This is exactly what I was pointing out. It took me all of about 30 seconds to look this up in the database but I guess some people want there homework done for them.

DoubleDAZ

10-30-07, 10:27 PM

This is exactly what I was pointing out. It took me all of about 30 seconds to look this up in the database but I guess some people want there homework done for them.And isn't that all pepar tried to say before folks took offense and things escalated a tad? ;)

arnoldhf

10-31-07, 09:47 AM

To navigator_guy:

I also have TWC-Queens. I recently got a 2nd DVR from them (8300HDC). It has different software (and much INFERIOR) to the software that came w/8300HD. Their technical customer support is non-existent. They just said email them.
When I emailed them a long list of the features missing in the new software and asking when an upgrade might be available here's their reply:

Thank you for your recent message to Time Warner Cable.

We appreciate that you have taken the time to share your comments.

Regrettably, at this time we have no additional information and
apologize for any inconvenience.

Please refer to our website for any future plans,
services and news updates.

Thank you for taking the time to let us know your thoughts.
Anybody know anything about Verizon FIOS in NY?

tony57

10-31-07, 10:49 AM

The Apricorn has disconnected from my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD three times in 3 weeks (requiring a re-boot). I'm going to try the Antec MX-1 USB2.0 & eSATA External Enclosure. (At least changing the eStata cable to a quality cable has soved the glitching.)

The Apricorn case solved the glitching I was getting with the Rosewell. The Apricorn enclosure is what I would now recommend.

Tony

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony57
I have a Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 on order. This drive is supposed to be opimized for DVR's ("The 500GB DB35 7200.3 3.5" Disc Drive for DVRs redefines value for high-capacity systems and delivers performance optimized for DVR storage and optimization.")

I should have it in a couple of days and I'll post my results after I give it a workout.

pepar

10-31-07, 11:07 AM

tony57

10-31-07, 11:16 AM

I did. Possibly just a bad case that made it past their quality control. I like Apricorn and have used other products from them, but I'm going to give the Antec MX-1 a try. (FWIW, before this set-up I had a KINGWIN SS-350S-BK and a Segate 400g Barracuda 7200.8 running for over 2 years without glitchs and it never disconnected from the 8300HD. The Barracuda died, so I decided to upgrade to 500g and a new encosure (sending the Barracuda in for a replacement to use for other purposes)).

In hinsight, it would have been easier if I just replaced the Barracuda 7200.8 with the warrany replacement drive ...but then I would not have had fun playing with new equipment ;-)

Tony

Check the cables and connections inside the enclosure.

NLN987S

11-01-07, 09:33 AM

'Bought a Western Digital 500Gig DVR Expander at BB over the weekend. Installation was a breeze and straight-forward -also comes with eSATA cable. My Cox SA8300HD was able to recognize the external drive. :D

pepar

11-01-07, 09:50 AM

I did. Possibly just a bad case that made it past their quality control. I like Apricorn and have used other products from them, but I'm going to give the Antec MX-1 a try. (FWIW, before this set-up I had a KINGWIN SS-350S-BK and a Segate 400g Barracuda 7200.8 running for over 2 years without glitchs and it never disconnected from the 8300HD. The Barracuda died, so I decided to upgrade to 500g and a new encosure (sending the Barracuda in for a replacement to use for other purposes)).

In hinsight, it would have been easier if I just replaced the Barracuda 7200.8 with the warrany replacement drive ...but then I would not have had fun playing with new equipment ;-)
One of the beautiful things about adding external drives to these boxes is that "behind-the-curve" SATA drives work just fine. I, personally, wouldn't go "back" as far as 5400rpm, but otherwise it's all good.

rooobosmith

11-01-07, 10:34 AM

Any of you guys have trouble with shows on the external drive disappearing?

When I had the Passport software with an external drive that appeared to be recognized and work initially, later several shows in the list would not play. Eventually it seemed so corrupted that I had to trade it in for a new box.

TWC San Diego no longer gives out Passport boxes; the only thing I can get is a Navigator box which has inferior features but appears to be more stable.

Just last week I plugged in an I-Rocks case with Maxtor 320GB drive that appeared to work. After recording several new shows on the external drive, none of them would play (blank screen), but at least the box did not crash. After rebooting, the new shows are no longer even in the list.

??? :confused:

Riverside_Guy

11-01-07, 11:15 AM

One of the beautiful things about adding external drives to these boxes is that "behind-the-curve" SATA drives work just fine. I, personally, wouldn't go "back" as far as 5400rpm, but otherwise it's all good.

I assume "behind-the-curve" SATA drives means IDE drives. Don't we have IDE/ATA drives IN our 8300HDs?

pepar

11-01-07, 02:51 PM

I assume "behind-the-curve" SATA drives means IDE drives. Don't we have IDE/ATA drives IN our 8300HDs?
I didn't mean Integrated Device Electronics or the formal name, Advanced Technology Attachment, when I said SATA. I'm pretty sure that there are IDE drives in our boxes though I only know what mine are and those of members who post. I don't recall anyone adding an IDE drive externally. By behind-the-curve, I simply meant not the latest and greatest.

danno321s

11-01-07, 04:49 PM

I have been using a Rosewill eSATA/USB enclosure http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817173043 with a Seagate 750GB drive with no problems other than not being able to instant replay live shows. I believe the instant replay is a bug for all eSATA drives. Is this going to be fixed by the monopoly?

Dan
TWC SE Wisc SA8300HD/Passport

pepar

11-01-07, 04:58 PM

DoubleDAZ

11-01-07, 09:28 PM

Actually, (loss of) "instant replay" (of live TV) is a bug for all eSATA drives attached to Passport SA8300HD's.Nice save. You knew I was ready to post, didn't you? :)

pepar

11-01-07, 09:34 PM

Nice save. You knew I was ready to post, didn't you? :)
;)

nihilan

11-02-07, 02:24 PM

Thanks guys, I was hoping to hear something different - but I guess it is what it is...

For clarification, my cableco. is Cox and I'm in North Florida. And the glitches are absent when watching without the external drive (I actually moved my TV the other day and forgot to replug in the eSATA cable - thought I had magically fixed things by moving the TV!)

I guess I'll try another box then. I'll let everyone know how that works out.

Thanks

So, I finally went to get a new box today, and of course they were out of them.

Then the lady told me the expected "we don't support that feature" line, but wanted me to bring in my external hard drive and test it out on their TV when I came for the new box. I don't think she had any clue what she was talking about. She also told me that none of the additional ports on the box work including the HDMI output. I've been using the HDMI output the whole time I've had the box.

A very odd experience. Bottom line, I'll be waiting at least another week to try a new DVR.

DoubleDAZ

11-02-07, 08:17 PM

So, I finally went to get a new box today, and of course they were out of them.

Then the lady told me the expected "we don't support that feature" line, but wanted me to bring in my external hard drive and test it out on their TV when I came for the new box. I don't think she had any clue what she was talking about. She also told me that none of the additional ports on the box work including the HDMI output. I've been using the HDMI output the whole time I've had the box.

A very odd experience. Bottom line, I'll be waiting at least another week to try a new DVR.I accepted that kind if ignorance back when the 8300 first came out, but to get that kind of comment today is nothing short of plain stupidity. I hope you take it upon yourself to educate them and then demand some free services. :)

pepar

11-03-07, 12:20 AM

I accepted that kind if ignorance back when the 8300 first came out, but to get that kind of comment today is nothing short of plain stupidity. I hope you take it upon yourself to educate them and then demand some free services. :)
But on the other hand, never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. ;)

nihilan

11-05-07, 10:31 AM

But on the other hand, never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. ;)

I agree. I've seen what those poor customer service folks have to go through. I try to be a friendly as possible.

DoubleDAZ

11-05-07, 08:42 PM

I agree. I've seen what those poor customer service folks have to go through. I try to be a friendly as possible.No one suggested getting nasty about it. It's easy enough to educate these folks. All you have to do is send them a nice email and ask them to get it to the appropriate folks to add it to the CSR/tech info. If they choose not to use it, then at least you tried.

bb09

11-07-07, 08:25 AM

Well I got the Apricorn 500g DVR Xpander (ADVRX-500) yesterday.

http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=37

I have Cablevision (Central NJ) running SARA software. So far so good. The box recognized the device right away. It was supposed to show a message after formatting, but after 20 mins, no message and no decrease in storage size. I called Apricorn's site and the guy told me to power off the xPander and I should get a meassage that the device has been disconnected. I turned it off and got the message. I waited about 15 sec and powered the xPander back on. My TV screen froze for about 5-10 seconds and then returned to normal. I checked my available space and it went from 87% full to 19% full.

I will post this to the database, once I get the SARA version #.

pepar

11-07-07, 09:14 AM

I waited about 15 sec and powered the xPander back on. My TV screen froze for about 5-10 seconds and then returned to normal. I checked my available space and it went from 87% full to 19% full.
:)

I will post this to the database, once I get the SARA version #.
Thank you!

rooobosmith

11-08-07, 06:05 PM

bb09

11-09-07, 03:32 PM

Do you know what kind of disk is in the box?

I don't know for sure, but according to the live chat support I did with Apricorn before I ordered it, it's a Western Digital HD.

tcat

11-09-07, 11:49 PM

I have a WD 300g HD that's been working fine for a couple years (with 8300 SARA). All of a sudden I can only view 3 of 16 recorded programs, the others just give me the "Playback" screen that says hit the List button or the channel up/down button. Says disk is 10% full, usually it's 30 or 40%. But it shows all 16 recordings in the list. What's odd is on the second reboot try, it said 28% full when I first looked at it, then it said 10% full after trying to play one of the programs (that wouldn't play).

Tried unplugging the HD and SA box 3 times. Any other ideas?

pepar

11-10-07, 12:11 AM

tcat

11-10-07, 12:34 AM

PatG25

11-10-07, 07:49 AM

Riverside_Guy

11-10-07, 08:24 AM

Hard Drive going bad??

Not necessarily. If he has more trouble with the combo (drive + 8300), I'd suggest putting it to use on his computer, chances are good it will be 100% fine there.

DoubleDAZ

11-10-07, 08:44 AM

Thanks, kind of what I figured. Erased all the others, down to 2. Tested a new recording and plays back fine. Any clue what would cause that? Maybe an electrical outage? Kind of odd my AT&T DSL connection has quit sometime during the day for the past 3 days, and I've had to reboot its modem (and there's big trucks and trenches down the road laying cable). Wonder if its related... That hasn't gone out for a year either.You might want to record several programs to make sure something goes to the external drive and then replays. As long as the recordings are going to the internal drive, you probably won't notice a problem.

Also, what happens when you just disconnect the external drive? Do you get a message saying it has been disconnected or something like that?

tcat

11-10-07, 09:41 AM

pepar

11-10-07, 10:00 AM

Thanks, kind of what I figured. Erased all the others, down to 2. Tested a new recording and plays back fine. Any clue what would cause that? Maybe an electrical outage? Kind of odd my AT&T DSL connection has quit sometime during the day for the past 3 days, and I've had to reboot its modem (and there's big trucks and trenches down the road laying cable). Wonder if its related... That hasn't gone out for a year either.
I've got two 8300HDs with external drives attached. Since using them, we've had about six power outages of varying duration. Out of those twelve incidents (six outages x two boxes), I experienced exactly what you experienced one time. All other times when power was restored I got the "your external drive is attached and working (or some such thing)" and it worked like nothing had ever happened.

DoubleDAZ

11-10-07, 06:52 PM

I recorded a movie last night, so I have 4 hours of HD recordings. Says disk is 21% full. That tells me it's all going to the internal drive (right?). When I go to diagnostic pages, it does show the 300g external - I'm not techy enough to know much more than that. After a reboot, I do get the message external device is working properly (or something like that). I just unplugged the SATA cable and got the message "external drive has been disconnected, you will need to reboot the DVR..." I didn't reboot and it's playing fine.Recordings should go to the drive with the most free space (based on percentage, I believe). That is why I would simply record several hours of whatever to see what happens. The internal drive should record around 20 hours of HD. If you have 4 hours now and are 21% full, something doesn't seem right to me. 4 out of the 20should be about 20%, but the 300G should give you an added 30+ hours. 4 out of 50+ should be less than 10% full. Even though it "seems" to recognize the external drive, I don't think it's using it at all. Anyone else seeing the same thing I am or am I missing something?