8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! [Text View] - Page 25

Pantalaimon

11-11-07, 08:07 PM

This is kind of long, so please bear with me.

I have been using an external drive with my 8300HD for about a year and a half with no problems until now. Yesterday I noticed the box was making a racket trying to access the external drive (I wasn't watching anything and it was turned off).

I turned it on and it was frozen on a blue boot-up screen while the external drive was grinding away. I unplugged the external drive and then the box displayed a message that the external drive appeared to be corrupted, and asking if I wanted it reformatted.

I unplugged everything and then started everything up in the proper sequence and got the same result. Had to unplug the external drive to get anything, and then I got the offer to reformat. Obviously if I chose "reformat" it wouldn't be able to do it as it was disconnected, and if I connected it the box would never get past the blue screen.

I plugged the external drive (Azio enclosure and I believe a Hitachi 400 gig drive) into a computer and opened computer management/storage. It recognised the drive. I decided to reformat it, but the only option at that point was to "initialize" it, so I chose that, which took about a second. Then I would have been able to format it, but I didn't bother because I wanted to try it again with the cable box which has its own format.

I unplugged the 8300HD, connected the drive, fired up the drive, and then plugged in the box. I have done this several times now, and it either freezes on the blue screen, or it boots normally as if there is no external drive connected. When it boots up there is no mention of detecting an external drive, no offer to format, and no message that there is a functioning drive. Nothing.

At this point I suspect that my eSATA cable went bad, because the computer, connected by USB, seems to think the drive is OK.

But here is my big question. When I first got the external drive in June 2006 I seem to recall that I was able to determine that I had the SARA software (firmware?) by calling up some obscure diagnostic screen. But now when I reboot the box, the blue screen says "NAVIGATOR" in big letters. At first I thought nothing of it. But then I started reading threads on this forum talking about how some cable companies were switching over to some awful Navigater software and people would lose their saved programs on the external drive when it happened.

How can I determine what actually happened? I have Cablevision (Long Island) and I can't find any mention of them changing over. Also, even if I lost the programs from a switch to Navigator, the external drive should still work, right?

[I just spoke to a Cablevision rep who assures me that they haven't done any major firmware upgrades that would affect my external drive. But he didn't know which operating system is on their boxes.]

I would appreciate any information or thoughts and comments.

DoubleDAZ

11-11-07, 08:29 PM

AFAIK, the only cableco using Navigator is TWC, they are the ones who developed it. If you look in the first post in the SARA Tips & Tricks thread (see my sig), it tells you how to get to the diagnostic display, among other things you might want to try, like a "hard" reboot, etc.

Pantalaimon

11-11-07, 10:27 PM

If you look in the first post in the SARA Tips & Tricks thread (see my sig), it tells you how to get to the diagnostic display, among other things you might want to try, like a "hard" reboot, etc.

Wow, that is a whole lot of useful information. I will be trying a hard reboot in a short while.

Thanks to you and everybody else who contributed to the tips and tricks.

Pantalaimon

11-11-07, 10:46 PM

OK, the hard boot didn't fix it. Next I will order a new eSATA cable and try that.

BobKat6

11-11-07, 10:54 PM

OK, the hard boot didn't fix it. Next I will order a new eSATA cable and try that.

There were posts a few months back about improperly "seated"cables. Try a search or PM to xnappo, DoubleDAZ, pepar or DaveHancock for the details before junking your cable.

Bob

DoubleDAZ

11-11-07, 11:03 PM

Good advice, Bob. One thing recommended is to reseat all cables inside the external enclosure. Don't just push on them, remove them and plug them back in. That goes for the eSATA cable as well.

pepar

11-11-07, 11:03 PM

There were posts a few months back about improperly "seated"cables. Try a search or PM to xnappo, DoubleDAZ, pepar or DaveHancock for the details before junking your cable.
Check connections inside the enclosure.

Pantalaimon

11-11-07, 11:04 PM

There were posts a few months back about improperly "seated"cables. Try a search or PM to xnappo, DoubleDAZ, pepar or DaveHancock for the details before junking your cable.

Bob

Thanks.

I unplugged and replugged both ends of the cable and that didn't help. I saw a post about checking to see if the cables inside the enclosure are seated properly, so perhaps that's what your referring to. I suppose I will check that eventually.

DoubleDAZ

11-11-07, 11:05 PM

Check connections inside the enclosure.Beat you by mere seconds. :)

BobKat6

11-11-07, 11:08 PM

Ah! The big hitters are back on. Wasn't there also some talk about shaving the plastic to get enough metal to seat properly?

DoubleDAZ

11-11-07, 11:12 PM

Ah! The big hitters are back on. Wasn't there also some talk about shaving the plastic to get enough metal to seat properly?You have a good memory. There were some pictures (or links to such) posted showing some short connectors that didn't quite make good contact. After some of the plastic was shaved away, the metal parts were then long enough to go further in for better contact. The pictures showed the difference between the "shorties" and good connectors.

pepar

11-11-07, 11:20 PM

Beat you by mere seconds. :)
Wow! :)

drdcpa

11-12-07, 10:37 AM

Hi Guys,

I'm using the 8300HD with SARA Firmware 1.88.24.., I plug my Western Digital External ESATA with 320Gb using 7 Pin ESATA cables, however, I get a message on my 8300HD saying a communication error. When I unplug the cable, it says it's unplugged but it will not work when it is plugged in. I've tried rebooting the 8300HD and the Harddrive to no avail. I also have another 8300HD upstairs and I get the same error.

It appears to know that the drive is there, but it just keeps giving me a communication error. Any Ideas?

I've also tried a Seagate external Harddrive but I got the same error message.

I'm on Hargray Communications Cable out of Hilton Head Island, SC, so it's possible that my cable company is just backwards and the system will not work, but I wanted to give it a shot!

Thanks! :)

xnappo

11-12-07, 10:41 AM

Hi Guys,

I plug my Western Digital External ESATA with 320Gb using 7 Pin ESATA cables, however, I get a message on my 8300HD saying a communication error.

I've also tried a Seagate external Harddrive but I got the same error message.

Thanks! :)

What EXACT models are you trying to use? Check the database and see if they are generally successful or now.

xnappo

rooobosmith

11-12-07, 10:48 AM

I bought the I-Rocks eSata case for use with a Maxtor 320GB Sata drive on a Navigator (Mystro) 8300.

Upon rebooting the 8300 it recognized and formatted the disk.

Record and playback initially work OK with ~1 glitch per minute on average.

Twice now, after < 1 week, it stops recording all new shows with a "channel not available" error message in the record log.

I am ready to give up on this combo, as it is really annoying for it to randomly quit recording new shows.

tcat

11-12-07, 11:16 AM

How "cool" is "cool enough" for a HD? I just ordered a new WD 500g to replace my fried drive. I am planning on using my existing AZIO case, but plan on leaving the top cover off. I ordered an 80mm MASSCOOL COOLINGFAN ($1.99) from Newegg when I ordered the drive. The 8300 STB, HD, AVR, DVD are in one base cabinet about 30" wide. I have (8) 2" holes drilled at the bottom up under the baseboard. I'm planning on mounting the fan under one shelf and having it blow up directly through the AZIO. Does this sound adequate?

Also, where's the best place to pull 12V DC from, the HD or just find an old 9-12V power supply?

PS: I thought I'd add, in going back to no external drive I did a hard reboot. TV picture would flash on and off about every 2 or 3 seconds. After 2 more soft reboots all is back to "normal", except I already have it 75% full... my replacement drive can't get here soon enough. Also checked "warrantee" at WD web site, you just plug in your serial number and it tells you "warrantee expired 7/15/07, feel free to upgrade here" (at prices way hirer than Newegg).

xnappo

11-12-07, 12:31 PM

Twice now, after < 1 week, it stops recording all new shows with a "channel not available" error message in the record log.

I am ready to give up on this combo, as it is really annoying for it to randomly quit recording new shows.

People are reporting in the Navigator thread that this happens ~twice per week WITHOUT an external drive.

xnappo

rooobosmith

11-12-07, 12:50 PM

People are reporting in the Navigator thread that this happens ~twice per week WITHOUT an external drive.

xnappo

Thanks xnap. I hope this fact gets me off the hook with my gf. :D

Pantalaimon

11-12-07, 04:25 PM

I decided to have Windows XP do a full format of my external drive that no longer works with the 8300 just to definitely determine if the drive itself is OK or not (short of doing a full format XP indicates that the drive is "healthy.")

So my question is: Is there supposed to be some sort of progress bar or some other indicator of progress during a full (as opposed to a quick) format?

Because I don't see any.

DoubleDAZ

11-12-07, 04:31 PM

So my question is: Is there supposed to be some sort of progress bar or some other indicator of progress during a full (as opposed to a quick) format?

Because I don't see any.It's been a long time since I've formatted a drive, but I thought there was a status bar that gave the percent complete or something.

Pantalaimon

11-12-07, 04:42 PM

It's been a long time since I've formatted a drive, but I thought there was a status bar that gave the percent complete or something.

That's what I thought too. I'm starting to think the drive is shot. I will give it some more time.

pepar

11-12-07, 04:45 PM

That's what I thought too. I'm starting to think the drive is shot. I will give it some more time.
Does the drive appear in the BIOS settings? Does the drive appear in Computer Management|Storage? Does the drive appear in Windows Explorer?

chichichi

11-12-07, 05:33 PM

After PVR powerup I dont get the format screen. Seems like my PVR never sees the external harddrive.

Cable seems to fit snug. HD works via USB to my PC.

The HD is IDE in a case that can accept either IDE or SATA.

Does the drive need to be formatted in a special way before hooking it to the PVR?

Suggestions? Info Needed?

xnappo

11-12-07, 05:35 PM

xnappo

11-12-07, 05:35 PM

Millwood1

11-12-07, 06:13 PM

I bought the I-Rocks eSata case for use with a Maxtor 320GB Sata drive on a Navigator (Mystro) 8300.

Upon rebooting the 8300 it recognized and formatted the disk.

Record and playback initially work OK with ~1 glitch per minute on average.

...

One glitch per minute! That's not working, IMHO. I use the WD DVR Extender - 500G WD Drive in a WD case, and see maybe one glitch a week - and I think that's more than it should be.

Pantalaimon

11-12-07, 06:30 PM

Does the drive appear in the BIOS settings? Does the drive appear in Computer Management|Storage? Does the drive appear in Windows Explorer?

It is an external USB/eSATA drive, so it wouldn't appear in the BIOS screen. When I plug it into the computer via USB cable the computer detects it as an external drive. It shows up under Computer Management/Storage as a healthy, but unallocated drive. I was able to select the drive and go through the steps to format a partition, but, although the drive is spinning, and XP says "formatting," there is no indication of any progress being made.

I will open the case and reseat the cables and try one more time, and then I will toss it. That's why I now like to buy Seagate drives with a 5 year warranty. I have seen so many drives fail before then.

chichichi

11-12-07, 06:31 PM

What drive, what case, what does the database have to say?
[excuse the double post]
xnappo

WD1600 Caviar
Sabrent Silver Serial ATA (SATA) & SATA II to eSata or USB 2.0 3.5" Aluminum External Hard Drive Enclosure

Drive isnt listed.
Sabrent in the reviews section of where I purchased it someone is using it there 8300 HD without problems.

rooobosmith

11-12-07, 06:31 PM

One glitch per minute! That's not working, IMHO. I use the WD DVR Extender - 500G WD Drive in a WD case, and see maybe one glitch a week - and I think that's more than it should be.

Is that with Navigator?

Cause I see your entry in the Sara database.

I did not notice any glitches with this disk when I had Passport.

I could put up with glitches as long as the programs were recording reliably and the box did not crash all the time (cause it takes much too long to reboot).

Oh well, the 8300 will soon be gone cause I got my gf Tivo HD for her b'day. :D

pepar

11-12-07, 10:44 PM

It is an external USB/eSATA drive, so it wouldn't appear in the BIOS screen. When I plug it into the computer via USB cable the computer detects it as an external drive. It shows up under Computer Management/Storage as a healthy, but unallocated drive. I was able to select the drive and go through the steps to format a partition, but, although the drive is spinning, and XP says "formatting," there is no indication of any progress being made.
What is the drive size? 300GB can take over an hour.

tony57

11-12-07, 11:42 PM

.
.
OK, its been 12 days and no glitches and no disconnections with the Antec MX-1 / Seagate DB35.

Tony

The Apricorn has disconnected from my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD three times in 3 weeks (requiring a re-boot). I'm going to try the Antec MX-1 USB2.0 & eSATA External Enclosure. (At least changing the eStata cable to a quality cable has soved the glitching.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony57
The Apricorn case solved the glitching I was getting with the Rosewell. The Apricorn enclosure is what I would now recommend.

Tony

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony57
I have a Seagate DB35 Series 7200.3 on order. This drive is supposed to be opimized for DVR's ("The 500GB DB35 7200.3 3.5" Disc Drive for DVRs redefines value for high-capacity systems and delivers performance optimized for DVR storage and optimization.")

I should have it in a couple of days and I'll post my results after I give it a workout.

Pantalaimon

11-13-07, 02:40 AM

What is the drive size? 300GB can take over an hour.

400GB. I think I left it for two or three hours. The reason I gave up is that there was no indication that anything was happening except it said "formatting." I seem to recall that Windows has a running display of progress when formatting a drive. But there was nothing like that.

pepar

11-13-07, 07:54 AM

400GB. I think I left it for two or three hours. The reason I gave up is that there was no indication that anything was happening except it said "formatting." I seem to recall that Windows has a running display of progress when formatting a drive. But there was nothing like that.
It's been a while since I've added a drive to an existing installation and used that method of formatting, but IIRC there is a percentage indication (with no bar) in Computer Management|Storage|Disk Management, though a USB-attached device may show up under "Removable Storage."

You could attach the drive and run Windows XP installation and use the format utility which does have a progress bar. You can abort the "installation" after formatting - or not formatting - the drive.

Millwood1

11-13-07, 08:57 AM

400GB. I think I left it for two or three hours. The reason I gave up is that there was no indication that anything was happening except it said "formatting." I seem to recall that Windows has a running display of progress when formatting a drive. But there was nothing like that.

I had a funny experience formatting a new 500G drive on windows. (I assume we are talking about full, not fast, format. You want to full format to get the surface scan).

The first time I tried, I apparently did something that deadlocked the software - there was no indication of progress. After a reboot, I tried again, being careful to do nothing else after starting the format. Then, I got a progress bar and it worked.

Millwood1

11-13-07, 09:00 AM

Is that with Navigator?

Cause I see your entry in the Sara database.

:D

You are right - I'm Sara 1.89.20.1. But I was just adding a probably useless observation that once a minute is broken. Sorry for the unhelpful noise.

chichichi

11-13-07, 10:20 AM

WD1600 Caviar
Sabrent Silver Serial ATA (SATA) & SATA II to eSata or USB 2.0 3.5" Aluminum External Hard Drive Enclosure

Drive isnt listed.
Sabrent in the reviews section of where I purchased it someone is using it there 8300 HD without problems.

Where should I start trouble shooting this thing?

pepar

11-13-07, 10:24 AM

Where should I start trouble shooting this thing?
Well, absolutely the drive needs to be determined first.

chichichi

11-13-07, 11:01 AM

Well, absolutely the drive needs to be determined first.

How do I do that? It works via USB to my PC.

danno321s

11-13-07, 11:12 AM

When I have my SA8300HD/Passport off, my eSATA Seagate 750GB drive (Rosewill enclosure) is constantly reading/writing with noticeable read/write arm clicking. What is the SA8300HD doing?

pepar

11-13-07, 11:15 AM

How do I do that? It works via USB to my PC.
Open it up and look if the manufacturer/vendor can't tell you.

xnappo

11-13-07, 11:47 AM

Where should I start trouble shooting this thing?

Open it up and look if the manufacturer/vendor can't tell you.

Just a warning - if the case and drive are not in the database, the only advice we are going to be able to give you is(in order of cost):

- Check your cables
- Try another eSATA cable
- Try another case (with high success rate in the database eg Apricorn)
- Try another drive (with high success rate in the database eg WD5000AAKS)
- Try another 8300(though this is RARELY the issue)

xnappo

Pantalaimon

11-13-07, 12:03 PM

chichichi

11-13-07, 12:32 PM

Open it up and look if the manufacturer/vendor can't tell you.

Western Digital EIDE Caviar
WD1600JB-00EVA0

xnappo

11-13-07, 12:49 PM

Western Digital EIDE Caviar
WD1600JB-00EVA0

It sounds like your case converts EIDE to eSATA. As far as I can remember no one has ever tried this before.

Given the problems people have had just with SATA to eSATA I am not too surprised this doesn't work(yes, I know the internal drive is EIDE!).

I suggest you save yourself a headache and use this drive with your PC and purchase a combo with high success in the database for your DVR.

xnappo

pepar

11-13-07, 01:19 PM

I suggest you save yourself a headache and use this drive with your PC and purchase a combo with high success in the database for your DVR.
I concur. :)

chichichi

11-13-07, 01:36 PM

It sounds like your case converts EIDE to eSATA. As far as I can remember no one has ever tried this before.

Given the problems people have had just with SATA to eSATA I am not too surprised this doesn't work(yes, I know the internal drive is EIDE!).

I suggest you save yourself a headache and use this drive with your PC and purchase a combo with high success in the database for your DVR.

xnappo

Cool ... I like being the first :)

Ill buy a SATA drive tonight either the 500GB or 320GB WD both seem to have a high success rate.

phousley

11-13-07, 01:42 PM

Possibly it is defragging the drive.Navigator does the same thing. In the case of Navigator, I don't think it's defragging because the amount of I/O activity is directly related to the channel you were last tuned to. HD makes it very busy, SD is much less. I always tune to one of the music channels and the disk activity is very little.

This has always worried me because it's undoubtedly reducing the life of the drive. You would think that when you turned off the DVR, it would stop recording. On my old Instant Replay, it actually lets the drive spin down when it's turned off.

indy29

11-13-07, 01:53 PM

When I have my SA8300HD/Passport off, my eSATA Seagate 750GB drive (Rosewill enclosure) is constantly reading/writing with noticeable read/write arm clicking. What is the SA8300HD doing?

My educated guess is that it's using the expansion drive to cache the instant replay buffer.

Edit: My next educated guess is that I didn't completely read your post before responding, sorry...

While it's powered off, I have no idea.

dannyv@cybernex.

11-13-07, 04:55 PM

When I have my SA8300HD/Passport off, my eSATA Seagate 750GB drive (Rosewill enclosure) is constantly reading/writing with noticeable read/write arm clicking. What is the SA8300HD doing?

Not sure maybe its constantly updating the channel guide.
Maybe tune your 8300HD to the DVR playback channel and see if it stops.

On mine (SARA) right after I delete a program if I leave it on the DVR channel then shut it off I don't hear a thing from my drive.

chichichi

11-13-07, 05:20 PM

How long does the actual format take once the drive has been recognized by the STB? Its a 500 GB drive.

xnappo

11-13-07, 05:23 PM

How long does the actual format take once the drive has been recognized by the STB? Its a 500 GB drive.

Pretty much instant. I would give it two minutes or so. With SARA at least it doesn't tell you when it is done :( . You may have to do a hard reboot to see the space.

xnappo

chichichi

11-13-07, 08:14 PM

I added both my attempts to the database. Thanks for all the help guys.

CANNON-FODDER

11-13-07, 08:34 PM

When I have my SA8300HD/Passport off, my eSATA Seagate 750GB drive (Rosewill enclosure) is constantly reading/writing with noticeable read/write arm clicking. What is the SA8300HD doing?Possibly it is defragging the drive. ... don't think it's defragging because the amount of I/O activity is directly related to the channel you were last tuned to ... I always tune to one of the music channels and the disk activity is very little ... You would think that when you turned off the DVR, it would stop recording. On my old Instant Replay, it actually lets the drive spin down when it's turned off.When I still had it, the PASSPORT software maintained one buffer even when the machine was "off" [standby]. It would maintain a buffer on both tuners if you had used the second buffer within some time (I never bothered to nail down).

I know that attaching an external eSATA HHD to a PASSPORT DVR prevents the use of the buffer to FF/RW when recording to the external HHD.

I say again, I know that attaching an external eSATA HHD to a PASSPORT DVR prevents the [U]use of the buffer to FF/RW when recording to the external HHD.

But, given some vague recollection that the buffer is still there (maybe because someone reported recording via the guide worked to capture the back buffer?)

I agree the noise is probably the DVR diligently buffering one or more tuners, even if the software does not let you use it to FF/RW.

A simple test is to find a channel that is not buffered or that lessens the noise. As mentioned, Music Choice or PPV or non-subscribed channels often work, although I can record the music channels here...

v/r,
C-F

xnappo

11-13-07, 08:51 PM

I added both my attempts to the database. Thanks for all the help guys.

Thanks for the entries - just a point of clarification though - I thought your first drive was actually EIDE not SATA?

xnappo

chichichi

11-13-07, 09:47 PM

Thanks for the entries - just a point of clarification though - I thought your first drive was actually EIDE not SATA?

xnappo

It is.

xnappo

11-14-07, 08:12 AM

It is.

So does you case 'Sabrent (Serial ATA (SATA) & SATA II to eSata or USB' actually have BOTH an EIDE and SATA connection inside?

Thanks,
xnappo

chichichi

11-14-07, 09:19 AM

So does you case 'Sabrent (Serial ATA (SATA) & SATA II to eSata or USB' actually have BOTH an EIDE and SATA connection inside?

Thanks,
xnappo

I did order the 'Sabrent (Serial ATA (SATA) & SATA II to eSata or USB'. And oddly enuff it does contain both the SATA and IDE adapter interfaces The case is very generic and contains no markings to identify model or even branding and neither did the box it came in.

From the total lack of branding on the product it is really impossible to even know if I got exactly what I ordered.

So far no glitches, but im still testing it.

xnappo

11-14-07, 09:43 AM

I did order the 'Sabrent (Serial ATA (SATA) & SATA II to eSata or USB'. And oddly enuff it does contain both the SATA and IDE adapter interfaces The case is very generic and contains no markings to identify model or even branding and neither did the box it came in.

From the total lack of branding on the product it is really impossible to even know if I got exactly what I ordered.

So far no glitches, but im still testing it.

Okay, that sounds like a weird case :) Glad it is working for you now.

xnappo

nedeveritt

11-14-07, 12:21 PM

I'm looking for your opinions on what could be the cause of my A/V freezes.

I have the following equipment:

Explorer 8300HD w/ SARA 1.88.25.1
Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT SATA Backup & External Storage
WD Caviar SE 16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s

Until this past weekend, this set-up had worked flawlessly since purchased in April 2007.

Symptoms

I first noticed that scheduled recordings did not record or only recorded for 1 minute, but the system showed a usage of less than 40%.
Then, while watching live TV, the video and audio started freezing up, as if paused. Sometimes the audio would return on its own, but never the video. Changing channels (after significant lag) would solve the issue, but only monentarily. It happens all the time now, after about 2 seconds, on any channel (SD or HD).

I suspect that #1 was caused by the freezing described in #2. We weren't watching TV at the time of the scheduled recording. No issues were observed watching previously recorded programs, from either the internal or external drive.

Troubleshooting 1
Configuration - External Drive Connected to 8300

Completely powered everything down.
Double checked all connections.
Restarted everything.
The 8300 completed a countdown (which I've read about here, but never seen at home), and then booted up.
Received message indicating the external drive was not operating properly, and to check connections.

Result - Drive not recognized, so I turned everything off again.
Observation - The external drive sounded different, as if the power level was fluctuating. Spinning up and down, almost pulsating. The indicator on the front even went out for a couple of seconds.

Troubleshooting 2
Configuration - External Drive Connected to 8300

Completely powered everything down.
Double checked all connections.
Restarted everything.
The 8300 booted normally.

Result - No error messages received. System still froze. Playback from the external drive is OK.

Troubleshooting 3
Configuration - 8300 Only

Completely powered everything down.
Disconnected the external drive
Restarted 8300.
The 8300 booted normally.

Result - No error messages received. No freezes. Playback from internal drive was OK.

I'm leaning towards a bad enclosure based on my observations on Troubleshooting 1, and from what I've read in other posts regarding faulty power supplies in the Apricorn enclosure. I don't think it's the external HDD because I can still playback OK, even after freeze ups.

I have a call into Arpicorn tech support, as other posters have indicated they might replace the enclosure. That would be free, and preserve the recording we haven't yet watched.

What do you all think?

Thanks,
Ned

xnappo

11-14-07, 12:36 PM

What do you all think?

Thanks,
Ned

I agree. You are using one of the 'safer' combinations, so start eliminating the cheapest variables first (cable and case).

xnappo

nedeveritt

11-14-07, 01:31 PM

I agree. You are using one of the 'safer' combinations, so start eliminating the cheapest variables first (cable and case).

xnappo

Thanks, I have received an RMA # from Apricorn and will be getting a replacement enclosure from them. Hopefully, that will resolve the issue.

Ned

dannyv@cybernex.

11-14-07, 05:00 PM

xnappo

11-14-07, 05:05 PM

Your symptoms are the exact symptoms I had with my external drive (same case as yours with a WD 360MB YS series drive) Expecially the programs freezing, spinning up then down like a power fluctuation. Also I noticed that the whole external drive would just shut off (red led gos out) then come back on after 30 seconds to a minute and resume recording. In my case the drive went bad. I replaced the drive with the same one your having problems with now and it is working. If you don't mind loosing the programs that are on it. Put it on your PC via the USB interface and try to repartition it then re-format it in NTFS. My guess is you will not be able to. You are most likely going to need to replace the drive. I'm suspecting that heat buildup killed my drive so I'm using a different enclosure now with better ventilation.

You know - I missed the part about the setup working since April!!!

That makes it less likely the enclosure is the issue. Still, if you don't want to lose your programs you can give that a shot.

xnappo

hrdesai

11-14-07, 07:32 PM

I just received a 1TB Apricorn DVR Xpander this
morning and hooked it up per instructions on this thread.
Everything has been working flawlessly today except for
the ff/rew of live tv. Hope that doesn't get too annoying,
but enjoying the expanded space for now.

FYI...
Tried the Western Digital MyBook 750 Meg first - couldn't get it to work.
Tried the Segate 750mg next - couldn't get it to work either.

hrdesai

_______________
_______________

Explorer 8300HD - Passport 2.6.002
Apricorn DVR Xpander 1 tb.

gparrish

11-14-07, 08:00 PM

Not sure if this is on the forum here any where, but I just installed a 500GB Seagate Barracuda Sata ST3500630AS using full sata throughput 3.0Gbps (remove jumper) into a NexStar-3 esata. I got it working on the 8300HD after some tweaking.

Initially I connected the unit and it was recognized but got some error. I powered off the 8300 and waited 30 seconds and cut it back on and no mention of the drive. I turned off the drive and it reported it as being disconnected so it saw it but did not let me use it yet. I turned off both and powered up the drive and then the 8300 and got the same thing. Next I powered down the drive and turned it back on and finally it found the drive and allowed me to format it. When done I have a total of 500 + the 160 (146 usable) so lots of space to cache up junk.

Anyway wanted to share let me know if you have questions. I will report back later after I am using the unit for a week or so with success.

-greg

xnappo

11-14-07, 08:08 PM

Not sure if this is on the forum here any where, but I just installed a 500GB Seagate Barracuda Sata ST3500630AS using full sata throughput 3.0Gbps (remove jumper) into a NexStar-3 esata. I got it working on the 8300HD after some tweaking.

-greg

This drive has a pretty low success rate. Please try recording two HD shows at the same time. After 5 minutes, play back one of the two from the beginning. Watch for ~15 minutes. If you do not see excessive glitching - then congrats! You are one of the few who have gotten this drive to work without glitches...

xnappo

nedeveritt

11-14-07, 08:39 PM

You know - I missed the part about the setup working since April!!!

That makes it less likely the enclosure is the issue. Still, if you don't want to lose your programs you can give that a shot.

xnappo

Your symptoms are the exact symptoms I had with my external drive (same case as yours with a WD 360MB YS series drive) Expecially the programs freezing, spinning up then down like a power fluctuation. Also I noticed that the whole external drive would just shut off (red led gos out) then come back on after 30 seconds to a minute and resume recording. In my case the drive went bad. I replaced the drive with the same one your having problems with now and it is working. If you don't mind loosing the programs that are on it. Put it on your PC via the USB interface and try to repartition it then re-format it in NTFS. My guess is you will not be able to. You are most likely going to need to replace the drive. I'm suspecting that heat buildup killed my drive so I'm using a different enclosure now with better ventilation. If this is the case check with western digital the drive may still be under warrenty.

Bummer to hear that, but I'm still going to start with just replacing the enclosure. If that doesn't do it, then I'll lose the programs and try testing the drive on my PC. It should be under warranty since it's less than a year old.

What is your new enclosure with better ventilation?

Thanks,
Ned

dannyv@cybernex.

11-15-07, 09:02 AM

Bummer to hear that, but I'm still going to start with just replacing the enclosure. If that doesn't do it, then I'll lose the programs and try testing the drive on my PC. It should be under warranty since it's less than a year old.

What is your new enclosure with better ventilation?

Thanks,
Ned

Its an epower EP-301SA sata internal to sata external (Not sata/usb external combo) Unfortunitly it is no longer available. I think the only place you can get it is from epowers site.
http://www.epowertec.com/enclosure_tp301sa.html

davehancock

11-15-07, 10:12 AM

Its an epower EP-301SA sata internal to sata external (Not sata/usb external combo) Unfortunitly it is no longer available. I think the only place you can get it is from epowers site.
http://www.epowertec.com/enclosure_tp301sa.htmlYeh, I've had that enclosure for better than two years. Nice BIG slow moving fan to keep the drive cool. Never had any problems in 2 1/2 years.

lokilarry

11-15-07, 10:51 AM

dannyv@cybernex.

11-15-07, 12:21 PM

Yeh, I've had that enclosure for better than two years. Nice BIG slow moving fan to keep the drive cool. Never had any problems in 2 1/2 years.

Unfortunitly is almost impossible to find now.

pepar

11-15-07, 01:42 PM

Unfortunitly is almost impossible to find now.
I have one - identical appearance, different name - most likely made by same Chinese company - that I'm not using. If I can locate it, is anyone interested? $20 plus shipping via UPS.

BobKat6

11-15-07, 02:28 PM

[QUOTE=hrdesai;12218995]I just received a 1TB Apricorn DVR Xpander

Love to know what HDD Apricorn uses for the 1TB kit. I beleave it's a WD for the 500G. Let me/us know if you can. Thanx.

Bob

BobKat6

11-15-07, 02:32 PM

Prior post meant for hrdesai . Quote didn't work properly.

pepar

11-15-07, 02:57 PM

Prior post meant for hrdesai . Quote didn't work properly.
Close his/her quote with "[/quote]" (minus the " )

dannyv@cybernex.

11-15-07, 04:39 PM

I have one - identical appearance, different name - most likely made by same Chinese company - that I'm not using. If I can locate it, is anyone interested? $20 plus shipping via UPS.

There are a few out there that look identical but are sata/usb

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817332012

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817145660

Mine is sata only.

BobKat6

11-15-07, 04:58 PM

pepar

11-15-07, 06:38 PM

Anyone remembering my posts knows I had heat issues with my first plastic, single drive enclosure (very tiny fan on the bottom) bought from DiscounTechnology. My replacement is almost cool enough to make icecubes (exagerating).
Identical to the ones I have (http://www.firewiredirect.com/product/360/), but $5 more. ;)

Does yours have the soul-piercing blue light and the droning, hypnotic fan?

BobKat6

11-15-07, 10:59 PM

Identical to the ones I have (http://www.firewiredirect.com/product/360/), but $5 more. ;)

Does yours have the soul-piercing blue light and the droning, hypnotic fan?

The fan is about as loud as the SA8300HD's recording "percolation." I disabled the light about 2 seconds after installation.

danno321s

11-16-07, 06:13 AM

Yeh, I've had that enclosure for better than two years. Nice BIG slow moving fan to keep the drive cool. Never had any problems in 2 1/2 years.

I use the Rosewill enclosure http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817173043
with great success. The fan is very quiet and can be turned on/off.

Regarding Seagate drives, buy the NS series over the AS. The NS is a server-grade drive. Or buy one of the drives made solely for DVRs like the DB35 series. The AS series is for standard desktop computer that is not used 24x7.

danno321s

11-16-07, 06:34 AM

I can't modify my db entry, get 'invalid entry' in red color. Need to change 'failure mode' to 'n/a (pass!)'...

Riverside_Guy

11-16-07, 10:20 AM

The 1T Apricorn drive + case is 380 bucks, BUT there is a rebate of 50 bucks (didn't check the details about expiration). $330 is not a bad price although slightly more per G than other options.

Hard to say if this is a single drive or not. For the longest time, LaCie touted large capacity drives with NO information that they contained 2 drives with a chip that spanned them.

Right now, the sweet spot for cost per G is 500G bare drives for under 100 bucks. Wish there was a case available that one could put 2 drives in AND have a chip for RAID along with a eSATA external connection.

pepar

11-16-07, 10:34 AM

Has anyone had success with a 1T drive? IIRC, one person reports success with a 750GB. But I seem to remember a number of failures over 500GB that, also IIRC, were before xnappo's database.

macemuscle

11-16-07, 04:08 PM

hrdesai reported success with the Apricorn 1TB (see a few posts above). I just ordered the same drive and will report back on the results

shippo

11-16-07, 04:27 PM

Has anyone tried to complete copy from one drive to another drive? I'm thinking of changing my 160G to a 500G but I don't want to lose all my recording.

DoubleDAZ

11-16-07, 04:31 PM

Has anyone tried to complete copy from one drive to another drive? I'm thinking of changing my 160G to a 500G but I don't want to lose all my recording.Just forget it and move on, it doesn't work.

dannyv@cybernex.

11-16-07, 04:33 PM

Heres somthing interesting. Westerdigital has a complete line of drives for AV application such as servalience, streaming, PVR/DVR etc...

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=7&language=en

I gather these are the drives they put in the MY DVR Expanders.

xnappo

11-16-07, 05:11 PM

Has anyone had success with a 1T drive? IIRC, one person reports success with a 750GB. But I seem to remember a number of failures over 500GB that, also IIRC, were before xnappo's database.

At the time the Seagate 7200.10 750GB drive was the only reasonably priced drive on the market - an that is what people were trying. I don't think we can conclude anything from those as people have problems with the smaller size too...

xnappo

pepar

11-16-07, 06:14 PM

At the time the Seagate 7200.10 750GB drive was the only reasonably priced drive on the market - an that is what people were trying. I don't think we can conclude anything from those as people have problems with the smaller size too...

xnappo
On the ".10," the posts/data suggested to me that it was something other than capacity.

xnappo

11-16-07, 06:31 PM

On the ".10," the posts/data suggested to me that it was something other than capacity.

Yep.. It will be good to know if other 750GB drives work consistently!

xnappo

Speedskater

11-16-07, 07:29 PM

I just saw a Western Digital "My DVR Expander" on the shelf at Best Buys for about 10 % more than it was at W.D. buy online web page.
But now W.D. no longer lists it on the buy online page.

PatG25

11-19-07, 11:09 PM

Equipment is SA 8300HD (Comcast) Sara 1.88.25; Cavalry CAXM37500 500GB - USB 2 & eSata External Hard Drive

Hooked up the HD about 2 months ago, and everything has been working great. Total Disk Space used is 38%.

Today I noticed Audio Dropouts, about 3-4 seconds every 30 seconds or so. Tried 4 different channels with the same results. There are absolutely NO Video problems whatsoever. It went away after an hour or so. Because Audio wasn't working I watched something that was recorded (no problems). After I went back live, the audio problems had stopped.

Has anybody seen this problem before. I would expect both problems with Audio and Video if something is wrong with the drive.

Thanks,
Pat

pepar

11-20-07, 11:11 AM

philshare

11-21-07, 11:25 AM

After not paying attention and buying a Free Agent Pro, I'd like to do it better this time.

I'm with Videotron and there have been successful Nexstar
and WD Caviar WD5000AAKS implementations.

I see that my local Staples has the Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB Hard Drive (WD5000KSRTL) on sale. There are no reports of success or failure with this drive with Videotron yet but there are reports of success with both drive models at TWC whose SARA versions are close to Videotron's (although not identical).

Any idea of the likelihood of it working with Videotron?

tcat

11-21-07, 11:54 AM

summerschad

11-21-07, 02:02 PM

I use the Rosewill enclosure http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817173043
with great success. The fan is very quiet and can be turned on/off.

Regarding Seagate drives, buy the NS series over the AS. The NS is a server-grade drive. Or buy one of the drives made solely for DVRs like the DB35 series. The AS series is for standard desktop computer that is not used 24x7.

If i get this enclosure can i just put the drive in it? sorry first time i have done this so sorta a newbie. Are the connections pretty simple? also has anyone had any success or failure with this drive and their box? From the database posted it looks like it will work. thanks for the help...

philshare

11-21-07, 02:11 PM

Is the sale cheaper than $105 at Newegg? I bought the WD Caviar WD5000AAKS at Newegg to replace a 2 year old one that fried. It fixed my problems, and I also bought one of Neweggs $2 fans and keeps my cabinet much cooler, so hopefully this one will last!

No. It's $129 after a coupon. However, I'm in Canada and Newegg doesn't ship to Canada but they did have an open box for $93 (which was then indicated as out of stock)

I'm going to be in Boston next week so I'm going to check it out there.

Riverside_Guy

11-21-07, 02:30 PM

If i get this enclosure can i just put the drive in it? sorry first time i have done this so sorta a newbie. Are the connections pretty simple? also has anyone had any success or failure with this drive and their box? From the database posted it looks like it will work. thanks for the help...

Putting a drive into a box is a very simple process. It involves several screws and 2 multi-wire connections needing to be made. What gets difficult is clearances are very, very tight. The biggest trick is getting it in without putting too much strain on those connections. One trick is to "pre-crease" the wires into shapes that will be easier to fit in BEFORE the drive goes "in."

Work SLOWLY and methodically.

Lay a large towel on a desk and have at least 3 times the size of the components free and clear. Have a small flashlight handy (highly recommend LED flashlights, there are No hot spots or uneven spread).

If you know you are ham handed, you might want to buy an assembled unit. You should pay 30-50 bucks more for a plug n play unit.

summerschad

11-21-07, 03:56 PM

Putting a drive into a box is a very simple process. It involves several screws and 2 multi-wire connections needing to be made. What gets difficult is clearances are very, very tight. The biggest trick is getting it in without putting too much strain on those connections. One trick is to "pre-crease" the wires into shapes that will be easier to fit in BEFORE the drive goes "in."

Work SLOWLY and methodically.

Lay a large towel on a desk and have at least 3 times the size of the components free and clear. Have a small flashlight handy (highly recommend LED flashlights, there are No hot spots or uneven spread).

If you know you are ham handed, you might want to buy an assembled unit. You should pay 30-50 bucks more for a plug n play unit.
Got the antec external case from staples (link)http://www.staples.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StaplesProductDisplay?&langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10051&productId=183699&cmArea=SEARCH
for $59 minus a 25$ off $50 i got in the mail. the coupon was 2 weeks expired and i told them i just got it. they accepted it no problems. threw the caviar in i pulled from the other external i had and it was very simple. gotta get home and try it out. thanks for everyones input...

summerschad

11-21-07, 11:44 PM

Got the antec external case from staples (link)http://www.staples.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StaplesProductDisplay?&langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10051&productId=183699&cmArea=SEARCH
for $59 minus a 25$ off $50 i got in the mail. the coupon was 2 weeks expired and i told them i just got it. they accepted it no problems. threw the caviar in i pulled from the other external i had and it was very simple. gotta get home and try it out. thanks for everyones input...
worked!

danno321s

11-22-07, 02:35 PM

macemuscle

11-22-07, 11:35 PM

DoubleDAZ

11-23-07, 08:38 AM

I read posts about whether live TV pause/rewind/ff works while recording another program with the Apricorn drives. I just tested this and it does actually work. I did not have any issues pausing/rewinding/ffing live TV while recording another show. I tried it a few times.That only affects Passport users and only when recording to the external drive.

philshare

11-23-07, 08:55 AM

Is the sale cheaper than $105 at Newegg? I bought the WD Caviar WD5000AAKS at Newegg to replace a 2 year old one that fried. It fixed my problems, and I also bought one of Neweggs $2 fans and keeps my cabinet much cooler, so hopefully this one will last!

For Canadians, I just bought a WD5000AAKS for $101 Cdn and a Nexstar 3 enclosure for $41 from Canada Computers. Total was $159 shipped including GST.

davehancock

11-23-07, 01:17 PM

I have connected the 1TB Apricorn drive then I recently got and it works! The install went smoothly.

I had 93% of the internal drive full before the install and it went down to 11% :)

I read posts about whether live TV pause/rewind/ff works while recording another program with the Apricorn drives. I just tested this and it does actually work. I did not have any issues pausing/rewinding/ffing live TV while recording another show. I tried it a few times.

The Apricorn drive actually looks nice (matches the PVR) and it is whisper quietYou did not indicate software type (SARA, Passport, or Navigator) nor do you have your location in your profile (always a good idea) so it is hard to tell what software your have. My guess is that it is SARA, as it is Passport that has the FF issue (aka "Trick Play" bug).

It's great to hear that 1TB works. Conventional wisdom a year ago had the upper limit at 300Mb - but that wisdom also indicated that folks would only run into trouble as they filled the drive up. But there have been a lot of changes to software since then, and this situation probably has changed.

dack70

11-23-07, 04:05 PM

After disappointing results with an ESATA drive and my 8300HDC I ended up adding the 500GB external drive to my PC. I used an adapter plate to make the connection from the internal SATA on the PC motherboard to the ESATA. Google "dual sata esata plate" to get a link for the adapter plate I used.

Once the drive was connected and powered up I went into the PC BIOS and enabled the SATA port for the new drive. The PC recognized the drive and told me the hard drive manufacturer (Western Digital) and model number. I then used the model number to go to the Western Digital website and download the driver software for it. After installing the driver software, the PC was able to access the drive with no problems. All in all, a pretty simple upgrade for the PC and it took some of the sting away from the disappointing results with the 8300HDC.
Sorry I'm responding so late to this post. I didn't notice it before. What kind of problems did you have with your Western Digital external drive? Did it work at all? What model number was your drive?

I'm looking to buy a Western Digital 500GB WDG1S5000 eSATA drive to expand my TWC 8300HDC DVR. I have SARA version 1.90.5.106. I noticed in the SARA database, one person claims this configuration works. Also, the WD website claims they have tested this drive with SA 8300HD boxes. I'm guessing this is the safest drive for me to purchase for now. The big question is, what happens when Navigator shows up? Will this drive (or any drive) work? Has anyone out there with Navigator had any luck with this? Does anyone, with a similar configuration as me, have any suggestions for me, on which drive I should get? Any help would be appreciated.

macemuscle

11-23-07, 11:26 PM

You did not indicate software type (SARA, Passport, or Navigator) nor do you have your location in your profile (always a good idea) so it is hard to tell what software your have. My guess is that it is SARA, as it is Passport that has the FF issue (aka "Trick Play" bug).

It's great to hear that 1TB works. Conventional wisdom a year ago had the upper limit at 300Mb - but that wisdom also indicated that folks would only run into trouble as they filled the drive up. But there have been a lot of changes to software since then, and this situation probably has changed.

I am in Toronto, Canada, and yes I am on SARA 1.89.22.2 for my 8300HD

Btw, I have also done a bit of stress testing. I have tried watching a recorded program while recording two others. I have not encountered issues or glitches

Also, the PVR diagnostic says 931GB of space for the drive. The underlying drive Apricorn is using is the Western Digital 10 according to the diagnostic

xnappo

11-24-07, 03:25 AM

The big question is, what happens when Navigator shows up? Will this drive (or any drive) work? Has anyone out there with Navigator had any luck with this? Does anyone, with a similar configuration as me, have any suggestions for me, on which drive I should get? Any help would be appreciated.

It will probably work. There is a separate database for Navigator (see sig) with people reporting success...

xnappo

dack70

11-24-07, 12:57 PM

It will probably work. There is a separate database for Navigator (see sig) with people reporting success...

xnappo
Thanks for the link. It looks like someone has the same configuration as me and the drive works well. Good thing, considering I went ahead and ordered the external drive already. :)

blammy

11-27-07, 05:33 PM

DoubleDAZ

11-27-07, 09:01 PM

I apologize if I cannot find the proper posts or threads on the subject however should the SA8240HD operate essentially the same as the SA8300HD from an external SATA perspective? This assumes, of course, software versions are correct, etc.Yes, it should. They are the same unit, the 8240 just doesn't have the analog tuning circuitry.

And, this is the right thing, all things SATA. :)

MR12

11-28-07, 10:06 PM

xnappo

11-28-07, 10:14 PM

Can someone help me out. I have the 8300 and just bought this:

http://www.staples.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StaplesProductDisplay?&langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10051&productId=193692&cmArea=SC3:CG104:DP2167:CL142595

Will this drive work with the DVR, and if so what cable do I need to make the connection?

Looks like that is a USB only drive. You need a drive with an eSATA connection and cable. You could take it apart and put it in another case possibly.

xnappo

MR12

11-28-07, 10:38 PM

Looks like that is a USB only drive. You need a drive with an eSATA connection and cable. You could take it apart and put it in another case possibly.

xnappo
Thanks, can someone provide a link to one of these drives?

DoubleDAZ

11-28-07, 11:36 PM

Thanks, can someone provide a link to one of these drives?Check out the approprite database in the first post or xnappo's signature. Then google the drive you are interested in to find a source. A lot of folks use newegg.com, but there are plenty of other places to buy from.

Riverside_Guy

11-29-07, 02:35 PM

Thanks, can someone provide a link to one of these drives?

Short lesson. Drives are either IDE/ATA or SATA. The issue here is NOT with the drive, but with the enclosing box the drive is housed in (one can put a IDE drive into a box that has an external SATA connector, 2 or so folks who looked inside the 8300HD found IDE drives in there). THOSE boxes can be USB 1 or 2, FireWire 400 or 800 or SATA. Or can sport multiple interfaces on the same box. For boxes that do SATA externally, they can have SATA or eSATA connectors. eSATA and SATA connectors are electrically the same, but the connectors differ slightly. It ONLY makes a difference when you are looking at the cable.

STBs seems to all have eSATA connectors.

And don't forget that the INSIDE of the box can have IDE/ATA or SATA connections.

It can get a tad confusing to some who haven't worked a lot with such technology. Best thing to do is think about the signal path... it starts in one place and travels to it's final destination. Keeping the start, the end and every point in between is the mantra both for what you may need and for any troubleshooting.

keric

11-29-07, 05:45 PM

dack70

11-29-07, 06:09 PM

Does anyone know of a online site to purchase the "MY DVR Expander" from Western Digital?

I bought one, two months ago and love it. Would like to buy another as a Christmas gift.

I tried Western Digital online site(where I got the first one) but it seems they do not sell them anymore.:mad:

Best Buy is backordered and they may or may not have some in before Christmas.

Any suggestions?
I ordered the same drive through the Best Buy website. It is back ordered and will be shipped when it becomes available. I looked all over the Net to try and find one. Unfortunately, no luck. If you or anyone else finds one, please post it. I doubt mine will come in before Christmas, but I'm hoping.

dannyv@cybernex.

11-30-07, 09:27 AM

Does anyone know of a online site to purchase the "MY DVR Expander" from Western Digital?

I bought one, two months ago and love it. Would like to buy another as a Christmas gift.

I tried Western Digital online site(where I got the first one) but it seems they do not sell them anymore.:mad:

Best Buy is backordered and they may or may not have some in before Christmas.

Any suggestions?

http://www.superwarehouse.com/Apricorn_DVR_Xpander,_500_GB/ADVRX-500/p/1499868

I can't vouge for them but you can also do a search on amazon and come up with several dealers that have them in stock.

bb09

11-30-07, 10:26 AM

http://www.superwarehouse.com/Apricorn_DVR_Xpander,_500_GB/ADVRX-500/p/1499868

I can't vouge for them but you can also do a search on amazon and come up with several dealers that have them in stock.

Or, just order it from the Apricorn website. $179.99 and free shipping. That's what I got. So far, so good. I've had it about a month now.

Speedskater

11-30-07, 11:44 AM

So of the brick and mortar Best Buys have the Western Digital "My DVR Expander" on the shelf.

keric

12-01-07, 08:39 PM

dack70

12-01-07, 08:54 PM

I'm still unable to find a WD "MY DVR Expander" online or in stock as Best Buy. (Christmas gift):(

I am now considering the "DVR Xpander" from Apricorn. After searching many posts on this thread, I'm a little concerned about the "FF/Rewind" capabilities while viewing a live TV show.

It seems this may only be a problem with the "Passport" software of the 8300. (I'm buying for somone with "SARA". )
Can anyone post if these problems are not found with those using the SARA software.

Really don't want to give a Christmas gift that doesn't work...

Any advice?
I have the 8300HDC running SARA and I've seen posts of people using the WD "MY DVR Expander" that say this combination works well. Also, this drive works with the soon to be released Navigator guide (replaces SARA). To me it's more important that the drive works and is somewhat future proof.

L.Mun-C

12-01-07, 09:36 PM

I'm still unable to find a WD "MY DVR Expander" online or in stock as Best Buy. (Christmas gift):(

I am now considering the "DVR Xpander" from Apricorn. After searching many posts on this thread, I'm a little concerned about the "FF/Rewind" capabilities while viewing a live TV show.

It seems this may only be a problem with the "Passport" software of the 8300. (I'm buying for somone with "SARA". )
Can anyone post if these problems are not found with those using the SARA software.

Really don't want to give a Christmas gift that doesn't work...

Any advice?

First post, hope it's helpful. I contacted WD Support about 2 weeks ago, because their site shows the "My DVR Expander" without the option to purchase. I was told to check back in 2-3 weeks as they are releasing a new drive. I think to add compatability with TiVo mentioned in a press release. I have checked everyday since, several new drives, but no change to the "My DVR Expander" yet.
BTW when the option was there, it was $20 less than BB shows for the backordered unit. I hope the price point remains the same and it happens soon, as I am planning to give it as a christmas gift also.

DoubleDAZ

12-01-07, 10:15 PM

It seems this may only be a problem with the "Passport" software of the 8300. (I'm buying for somone with "SARA". )
Can anyone post if these problems are not found with those using the SARA software.yes, the problem, often referred to as "trick play", is limited to Passport software.

dack70

12-02-07, 05:54 PM

First post, hope it's helpful. I contacted WD Support about 2 weeks ago, because their site shows the "My DVR Expander" without the option to purchase. I was told to check back in 2-3 weeks as they are releasing a new drive. I think to add compatability with TiVo mentioned in a press release. I have checked everyday since, several new drives, but no change to the "My DVR Expander" yet.
BTW when the option was there, it was $20 less than BB shows for the backordered unit. I hope the price point remains the same and it happens soon, as I am planning to give it as a christmas gift also.
That's interesting. I have the drive on back order through Best Buy right now. Does that mean I'll be getting the "new" drive you are talking about? Will the name be the same ("My DVR Expander" ) with a different model number? Maybe I should call.

Stefx73

12-02-07, 09:01 PM

Hi

There was a power outage.

I shut down the 8300HD PVR, I unplug it. Then I turn off the external hard drive.
I wait about 30secs, then I turn on the hard drive and I turn on the 8300HD about 30 seconds later.

I get a msg from the 8300 saying that the external recording device isn't connected properly....the list of recorded movies is there but it won't play any.

I repeated the shutting down and then on, I checked the cables, to no avail.

Any suggestions?

***EDIT**** Oh well, did it 6-7 times and now it works.

L.Mun-C

12-02-07, 10:49 PM

That's interesting. I have the drive on back order through Best Buy right now. Does that mean I'll be getting the "new" drive you are talking about? Will the name be the same ("My DVR Expander" ) with a different model number? Maybe I should call.

How long have you had it on order with BB?

You can reach WD Basic Support at 800-275-4932
M-TH 8 am-7 pm CST
Fri 8 am-5 pm CST
Sat 8 am-5 pm CST

Unfortunatly everytime I think about it, they are unavailable. Like right now.

danno321s

12-03-07, 09:52 AM

pepar

12-03-07, 02:07 PM

cadillact

12-03-07, 07:25 PM

Riverside_Guy

12-05-07, 12:36 PM

I have the 8300HDC running SARA and I've seen posts of people using the WD "MY DVR Expander" that say this combination works well. Also, this drive works with the soon to be released Navigator guide (replaces SARA). To me it's more important that the drive works and is somewhat future proof.

Are you sure it's an HDC? This would be the first time I have heard of this exact box NOT running Craptigator! Most other locations where HDCs are going out seem to have only Craptigator on them...

Riverside_Guy

12-05-07, 12:42 PM

That's interesting. I have the drive on back order through Best Buy right now. Does that mean I'll be getting the "new" drive you are talking about? Will the name be the same ("My DVR Expander" ) with a different model number? Maybe I should call.

One important fact, there are only a few who make the actual drive (Western Digital, Seagate, Maxtor among others). Many are packagers... like LaCie, they do NOT make drives but put a drive from the real maker into a box they design.

I would assume a My DVR Expander that came from WD to house a WD drive, but I'm pretty sure I've heard the same title used by Apricorn, so a "drive" there would NOT come from Apricorn.

xnappo

12-05-07, 12:52 PM

Are you sure it's an HDC? This would be the first time I have heard of this exact box NOT running Craptigator! Most other locations where HDCs are going out seem to have only Craptigator on them...

Do I *HAVE* to slap you upside the head again?!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12207065&postcount=2956
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11530992#post11530992

:D

You need to write it down or something. All TWC SARA areas are deploying 8300HDCs with SARA 1.90.x.

xnappo

Riverside_Guy

12-05-07, 12:57 PM

Hi to all board members.

This is my personal view and comments.

Well I know NOW that seagate freeAgent doesnt work.

I did call both Cox and SA and asked before purchase (freeagent) and both said that it would work.

I did call both of them AFTER purchase and asked why I was lied to.

Both STILL said it would work and when I asked both COX and SA for recommendation for another external HD they both couldnt give me any.

Well I should have checked this board before buying. I didnt, but NOW I know what should work or what doesnt work.

Even seagate tech support was clueless.

As someone who has a lot of experience with hard drives, none of the manufacturers bears any fault for this. With very few exceptions, any drive you get from any of those that make them will correctly do what they are designed to do, record data onto them and get that data back. WHAT that data may be is irrelevant (to the drive, it's all ones and zeroes). 100% of any issue we all have is 100% up to the software on the DVR that addresses the drive.

One of our members goes to extra effort to maintain a database of what SEEMS to work with what drive. I could guarentee you that combos that have shown to not work so well would work 100% with that drive in another application... i.e. hooked up to a device that has proper software that recognizes external volumes, etc. Frankly, the Seagate CSRs (and CSRs for all disk makers) should be saying that there are serious issues with DVRs having functioning software.

davehancock

12-05-07, 12:59 PM

Do I *HAVE* to slap you upside the head again?!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12207065&postcount=2956
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11530992#post11530992

:D

You need to write it down or something. All TWC SARA areas are deploying 8300HDCs with SARA 1.90.x.

xnappoYou beat me to it. He doesn't listen - he thinks that the rest of the world is just the same as in Manhatten!

Riverside_Guy

12-05-07, 01:01 PM

Do I *HAVE* to slap you upside the head again?!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12207065&postcount=2956
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11530992#post11530992

:D

You need to write it down or something. All TWC SARA areas are deploying 8300HDCs with SARA 1.90.x.

xnappo

Damn, you are right, somehow that bit if data seems to keep going to some of my "slowly going bad" neurons!

Or every brain location is already full of data, so new stuff goes into some temp swap area.

Riverside_Guy

12-05-07, 01:07 PM

You beat me to it. He doesn't listen - he thinks that the rest of the world is just the same as in Manhatten!

If you can show me that EVERY area outside Manhattan is getting HDCs without Craptigator, you comment is simply another in a long line of mean spirited attacks.

davehancock

12-05-07, 01:20 PM

If you can show me that EVERY area outside Manhattan is getting HDCs without Craptigator, you comment is simply another in a long line of mean spirited attacks.You wouldn't be getting these "mean spirited attacks" if you would simply recognize that there are areas outside of your "domain" that are not just the same as your area. As long as these "corrections" are necessary, they will likely continue (if not from me, then likely from someone else).

pepar

12-05-07, 01:22 PM

Hey, how about those Yankees? ;)

PJWest

12-07-07, 05:48 PM

pepar

12-07-07, 06:04 PM

xnappo

12-07-07, 06:04 PM

I'm a little confused and maybe some of you can help. I live in So. Cal, which is serviced by TW LA, I think. At least that's who I pay. My DIAG indicates that the SA 8300 HD has Passport Software 2.6.002, and it also indicates SATA is active. Does that mean that the Apricorn DVR Expander would work?

Yes, however Passport has an issue where 'trick play' does not work when the external drive has more free space than the internal drive. This means if you are watching 'live' TV (not a scheduled recording) you will not be able to rewind.

xnappo

Riverside_Guy

12-08-07, 10:06 AM

Pausing "live" is something I seem to of a lot. Not so much using rewind, but let's say you get back to the TV 1/2 hour later. Start from the spot you paused. Want to catch up to "live" by FF through commercials? Nope, trick play bug! You can ONLY watch it in real time, with all those glorious commercials.

PJWest

12-08-07, 11:38 AM

Thanks to peper, xnappo, Riverside_Guy,
Your responses are very helpful. Having also read the installation summary matrix from the top of this thread, I find mixed experiences with the installation I'm contemplating. So I'm inclined to wait a bit, but still encouraged.

Thanks again for your help, and I'll stay tuned.

Paul

ckradjia

12-08-07, 02:27 PM

Hello,

If I had known how complicated setting up an HD home theater system would be I'd have gone and gotten an engineering degree. Oh wait, I did....

So after the HDTV, AVR, a bunch of speakers, $500 in wires & cables, a harmony remote, and a $150 a month TWC bill, the only part that I have yet to complete is adding an esata drive to my SA Explorer 8300HDC. This forum provided a lot of info about every piece or technology I've purchased so far, so I figured I can find out some more info about this HD-DVR also. Lone and behold, I found this thread.

Over the last 4 weeks, I've gone through 7 different SA explorer HD boxes, 2 cable technician visits, horrible freezes with the boxes, several phone calls, new cable lines run from the pole to my house, and a new dedicated cable line going into the DVR. Finally the HD-DVR box is working fine. Except, sometimes when I'm in the guide and hit exit, the screen doesn't go back to full screen and the picture stays in the little preview box on top right corner. Luckily, turning PIP on then off restores full size picture. Don't know if there is a better workaround.

Ok, so I've had 2 SARA boxes, 2 passports, 2 navigators, and i think the one I have now says OCAP on the DVR when it boots, says Mystro on the screen during the bootloader, and says it's a navigator through the guide (SystemDiag). I've noticed there is some data regarding the types of drives various people have connected to their SA8300 running different pieces of software. I've also noticed that there are 3 best buys in my area that actually have the WD My DVR Expander in store (I live in Los Angeles), but like a dumbass, I thought I could connect a 1TB WD My Book Studio to the DVR, but it didn't work.

I was wondering if any of you know if the software (or hardware for that matter) has some kind of limit on the hard drive capacity?

Also, I know how your supposed to turn off the DVR, unplug it, plug in the eSata drive, power it on, connect to eSata port on DVR, plug in DVR, then turn on DVR, and the SA 8300 should "auto-magically" detect the hard drive and format it, but that hasn't worked since I got the drive. Don't know if I should return the 1TB drive and pick up 1 or 2 My DVR expanders, or keep pretending like this 1 TB drive will work one day.

Open to any suggestions, comments, advice, true stories of adventure.

Thanks

holl_ands

12-08-07, 06:53 PM

The eSATA database (pg 1 on this tread) lists several failed attempts to use 500 GB MyBooks
under PASSPORT and no reports of any kind for either SARA or NAVIGATOR.

Probable conclusion: MyBook ain't gonna work...

For 1 TB Apricon DVR Extender, it lists one success under PASSPORT and one for SARA,
so it's likely that NAVIGATOR will also succeed (but no guarantees).

And no one has reported success for anything larger than 1 TB....so you could be the first
to report re success (or not)...

einhorn

12-09-07, 10:23 AM

This thread and its database were useful in building my external device which "passes" the test ie, less than 1 glitch every 10 minutes, or even less than 1 every 30 minutes.

My question: Why should ANY glitches occur (internal or external)? My point is that watching a movie of the Movie Network HD should be pretty much the same experience as watching it on Blu-ray/HD-DVD as long as you're willing to settle for 1080i and DD5.1.

I'm happy with 1080i and DD5.1. 1080P and Dolby TrueHD may be technically better, but 1080i and DD5.1 are really hard to fault except by the Audiofiles/Videofiles.

What is intollerable is any drop out of sound or picture during the movie. On every movie I record, there is at least 1 moment, lasting from a fraction of a second to several seconds, where the sound or picture has a "glitch".

I suspect that if I'd watched the movie when broadcast, the glitch would not have occurred. In other words, the recorder is unlikely to record 2 hours of programming, glitch free.

Any ideas on getting a glitch free recording? Should I consider upgrading the internal hard drive to a higher quality drive?

Also, any thoughts on what aspects of a drive make it more glitch-free? Would a 10K RPM drive be better than a 7.5K RPM, or a 7ms access be better than a 10ms?

DoubleDAZ

12-09-07, 10:46 AM

einhorn,

We suspect it is simply the software and hardware that introduces the glitches, especially if they play fine when rewound. The hardware has a finite amount of useable memory/other resources and the software, well, it's just software. When these are stressed, like watching a 17 Mbps 1080i recording while recording 2 other 17Mbps 1080i programs at the same time, things just can't keep up error-free in many cases. Then too, cableco's, cables, splitters, signal levels, etc., all play a role.

DVD players are designed to do one thing, playback. Therefore, sufficient resources are included to do just that. Unfortunately, cable DVRs are subjected to outside forces. Of course, that doesn't mean they shouldn't have had more resources designed in, but they were designed before much of this stuff was a reality.

And then there is the cableco mindset to go cheap, probably the biggest problem. :)

einhorn

12-09-07, 02:22 PM

Hi DoubleDAZ, thanks for the reply. In most cases, where there is a 'glitch', it remains if i replay, ie the glitch is in the recording, not the playback.

I appreciate your points re: stretched resources. I generally reboot the machine an hour before any important recordings. I've also tried instructions that I've read on here regarding 'defrag' (put on a non-buffered channel, etc..), but I'm not convinced that this works.

I've followed what I've read re: keeping a significant amount of free space. And the signal level is bang-on as read by 2 different sources.

The next thing that I'll try is to minimize the "work" the machine is doing during an important recording. ie, putting the 2nd channel to a non-buffered channel, and keeping the device off during a recording. Anyone with other ideas?

Could a cable modem cause these problems?

ckradjia

12-09-07, 03:57 PM

Thanks for the reply holl_ands. I returned the 1TB MyBook and picked a WD MyDVR Expander.

I unplugged the DVR then connected the eSata drive. The DVR picked up on the new hard drive during boot-up(at L-13) and prompted me do format it. I had actually seen that same screen the first time I connected the 1GB MyBook, but the display kind of crapped out, and I might have accidentally pressed the C button to cancel and not format the drive. Every time after that, the option to format the new drive never came up. I'm not sure if that's a bug in the software, where if you cancel and choose not to format an external drive, it no longer prompts you to format again. I guess I could have spent some more time trying to repeat and/or reproduce it, but SA or TWC don't pay my bills so I just moved on...

As for the MyDVR Expander, after the format, it began to work pretty well. It's got Navigator, and so did not have the "trick play" issue; however, all of the old recordings I had on the internal hard drive disappeared. I just assumed that this had happened because the external drive simply "replaced" my internal drive, which meant that as long as the eSata drive was connected I couldn't access the internal one. Then I attempted to record a show, but I got an error message saying that my drive was full and I needed to delete some recordings to free up space. Well, that was kind of odd, since the recorded show list had NO shows recorded. The DVR also said that it was 0% full. That's when I hopped back on to this forum and found out that I was wrong with my assumption about the eSata "replacing" the internal hard drive as opposed to "adding" to it. That's when I read about the forced reboot. I tried holding down the power button until it restarted and got nothing. I tried pressing the Guide and Info buttons at the same time and got nothing. Turned the DVR off and pressed guide & info and got nothing. Then I tried holding down Vol + and Vol - at the same time and got nothing. Then while pressing the Vol + and Vol - buttons I accidentally pressed the Info button and the DVR restarted. After the reboot, I went to check the recorded show list and disk space and to my surprise all of my old recording from the internal drive were back. The DVR also said it was around 10% full, which meant it was also picking up the external drive also (before the eSata drive I was at 89% full).

I'm now going to try to record some HD channels, as well as some SD channels. Then I'll playback both and see if they work error/glitch free and post my results to the eSata database.

There is, however, another issue or two I'm still having, and haven't yet found a solution, but do have a possible hypothesis. I have the NBA League Pass on channels 711-719. Sometimes when I tune in to one of those channels, I get no video or sound. Now I know those channels are probably in 480i, but I think the DVR is trying to upconvert it to 1080i, but can't and it just doesn't output anything.

Also, sometimes when I go from a premium or NBA channel to a network HD channel the video output goes nuts. It keeps changing resolutions and picture sizes, starts to pixelate, and then displays a bunch of weird lines across the screen. The sound still comes through though. Sometimes just changing the channel up then back down fixes the issue. Sometimes I need to turn the DVR off then on to fix it. Sometimes I need to change to a different input on my TV to fix it. Sometimes I need to do all three to fix it. The fact that I need to do different things to fix the problem leads me to believe that it more than one problem.

Now, based on some of the other issues people are having with their SA8300HD's my issues are pretty tame. It must have been deemed "acceptable" while the box was undergoing testing, but it's so damn annoying having such a cool piece of technology which doesn't work as well as it is advertised.

DoubleDAZ

12-09-07, 04:13 PM

Could a cable modem cause these problems?I would think that if your signal levels are already ok, the modem should not have any impact. Most folks do not keep the modem on the same line as the DVR though. My modem (wireless) is in the bedroom and shares a line with an SDTV. It's often difficult to troubleshoot glitches that are actually in the recording because there are so many variables; there could have been a glitch in the actual broadcast, the cableco could have had some hiccups, the signal level could have fluctuated, etc. If it happens in all recordings with some degree of regularity, then I would suspect the drive itself not being fully compatible or up to the task. I'm sure someone with more expertise will chime in and offer some ideas/comments.

DoubleDAZ

12-09-07, 04:26 PM

There is, however, another issue or two I'm still having, and haven't yet found a solution, but do have a possible hypothesis. I have the NBA League Pass on channels 711-719. Sometimes when I tune in to one of those channels, I get no video or sound. Now I know those channels are probably in 480i, but I think the DVR is trying to upconvert it to 1080i, but can't and it just doesn't output anything.

Also, sometimes when I go from a premium or NBA channel to a network HD channel the video output goes nuts. It keeps changing resolutions and picture sizes, starts to pixelate, and then displays a bunch of weird lines across the screen. The sound still comes through though. Sometimes just changing the channel up then back down fixes the issue. Sometimes I need to turn the DVR off then on to fix it. Sometimes I need to change to a different input on my TV to fix it. Sometimes I need to do all three to fix it. The fact that I need to do different things to fix the problem leads me to believe that it more than one problem.Are you connecting via HDMI? Some HDTVs are known to have problems processing 480i signals. You might try disabling 480i and see if the problems go away.

Now, based on some of the other issues people are having with their SA8300HD's my issues are pretty tame. It must have been deemed "acceptable" while the box was undergoing testing, but it's so damn annoying having such a cool piece of technology which doesn't work as well as it is advertised.I would hope that these issues did not show up in testing only to be deemed acceptable, they certainly are not IMHO. I would prefer to believe that since they could not possibly test all combinations of HDTVs, many which were not even on the drawing boards at the time, these issues simply never came up during testing. I cite my own experience as an example. I have a CRT-based HDTV circa 2003. I use Component connections and have not had most of the problems others have had. The HMDI and other specifications leave a lot of wiggle room in their implementation and there are quite a few minor differences between how it workds on the 8300 and how it works on some HDTVs. It's one thing to connect test equipment that measures signals, etc. It's quite another to deal with any number of different HDTVs, cableco's, and software.

ckradjia

12-09-07, 05:32 PM

DoubleDAZ

12-09-07, 05:55 PM

DoubleDAZ, you make a good point about SA working out all of the compatibility issues with all of the different HDTV, cableco's, and software;especially since most of those devices "were not even on the drawing board" while SA probably conducted it tests. However, one would expect a company which is trying to stay one step ahead of its competitors to keep QAing their product as the technology surrounded them changes. It's a matter of not being static about a product and it applications. After all, how else will they develop a newer and better DVR if they don't continually test the old one to work out all of its bugs?I don't disagree and this has been talked to death over the years. There have been firmware updates to some HDTVs that have fixed some problems for them, so it's a bit unfair to lay all the blame on SA, though they certainly deserve the bulk of it IMHO. The only other thing I'll say on the subject is that almost no cableco supports SATA expansion, so that should tell you something. If it worked as well as SA tries to advertise it in some of their documentation this thread wouldn't even exist. :)

So I am running the DVR with an HDMI cable. I have tried holding info & guide to enter the video settings but can't. Do I need to have the component cables plugged in to see an output for these settings? I've got navigator on this box, so I don't know if that trick even works.No, the connection type should have nothing to do with it. I suggest you check the Navigator thread to see how to get to the diagnostics display. There is a link in my signature.

xnappo

12-11-07, 12:32 PM

Well, today marks the one year anniversary of the eSATA database:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=9137347&postcount=3684

We have 230+ entries and have had 40,000+ hits between the three databases!

Thanks to everyone for their entries and making the project a success!

xnappo

Riverside_Guy

12-11-07, 03:30 PM

And no one has reported success for anything larger than 1 TB....so you could be the first
to report re success (or not)...

Uh, don't think they make single drives >1T... yet.

One very interesting thing... there are a number of enclosures that hold 2 drives with a RAID chip in the box. Only ones I've seen are FW interface... but they "present" to the OS as a single volume. Might be interesting if there was such an animal with a SATA interface (assuming the controller would correctly "see" a single volume as such). Of course that IS making a HUGE assumption that the DVR is properly programmed... there IS a reason some of us call it Craptigator.

Riverside_Guy

12-11-07, 03:33 PM

And then there is the cableco mindset to go cheap, probably the biggest problem. :)

More like the head honchos reap their multi-million dollar bonuses by spending as little as possible while charging as much as they can get away with.

Riverside_Guy

12-11-07, 03:40 PM

Hi DoubleDAZ, thanks for the reply. In most cases, where there is a 'glitch', it remains if i replay, ie the glitch is in the recording, not the playback.

Most folks equate those "glitches" with external drives "not working correctly." Personally, I think that have zero to do with external drives and everything to do with the overall transmission system. I do not have an external drive (Passport's trick play bug makes that a no-go for me) and have more than enough observations to firmly conclude it's the transmission system (which involves not just physical plant/wiring but also various "policy issues").

xnappo

12-11-07, 03:57 PM

Most folks equate those "glitches" with external drives "not working correctly." Personally, I think that have zero to do with external drives and everything to do with the overall transmission system. I do not have an external drive (Passport's trick play bug makes that a no-go for me) and have more than enough observations to firmly conclude it's the transmission system (which involves not just physical plant/wiring but also various "policy issues").

I take it you mean 'other than drives like the Seagate 7200.10 which from the database CLEARLY causes glitches?' There are MULTIPLE cases of people trying a 7200.10, having glitches, switching drives and then it going away.

xnappo

DoubleDAZ

12-11-07, 08:57 PM

DocVegas

12-12-07, 12:23 AM

Put together a Vantec NexStar 3 case and Western Digital Caviar SE16 750GB with SARA on a Cox SA 8300. Works great, no errors. Thanks for all your help.

Riverside_Guy

12-12-07, 01:59 PM

I take it you mean 'other than drives like the Seagate 7200.10 which from the database CLEARLY causes glitches?' There are MULTIPLE cases of people trying a 7200.10, having glitches, switching drives and then it going away.

xnappo

That would seem to make a good case, but I am still a tad troubled to point a finger at them.

Perhaps there are issues with such drives; if there are issues storing and replaying data from those drives failing in any way, then Seagate must be held accountable.

My "opinion" on this matter takes into account that in the middle of the summer, we got 2 new HD channels (in a system that I have heard has as much if not more overall bandwidth than any other system). Effectively the ONLY new HD channels we get all year (I don't really count 2 more we just got, we got 2 for 6 months of the year and 2 for barely a month). The very same "glitching" was so god awful, one could barely watch ANYTHING. A good bud on a separate head end got the same thing. Gradually it got better. Then one of my homies from the NY thread discovered that TWC WAS applying a lot of "rate shaping" as stored programs seemed to take much less disk space.

Now I DO understand that you may feel that the drive makers bear some responsibility here. Saying they "need" to re-engineer their drives to work better with DVRs is a valid point. BUT, that (IMO) would be asking someone to support a device that is running on software that is well known to be NOT of any production quality at all. Having managed a fair amount of software development, I would make the point that the DVR has to have production quality software running on it before I'd invest in re-engineering MY software.

AND the cable outfits know eactly this... which is why none of them will "support" external hard drives. Oh wait, TiVo does... do those Seagate drives fail on a TiVo???

xnappo

12-12-07, 03:34 PM

Now I DO understand that you may feel that the drive makers bear some responsibility here. Saying they "need" to re-engineer their drives to work better with DVRs is a valid point. BUT, that (IMO) would be asking someone to support a device that is running on software that is well known to be NOT of any production quality at all. Having managed a fair amount of software development, I would make the point that the DVR has to have production quality software running on it before I'd invest in re-engineering MY software.

AND the cable outfits know eactly this... which is why none of them will "support" external hard drives. Oh wait, TiVo does... do those Seagate drives fail on a TiVo???

We have had this discussion before.. I think we agree:
1. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with any PC hard drive line
2. SA's eSATA interface is old
3. SA's code is not very good
4. Because of 2 and 3 some drives work better than others

By the way - the MyBook drive series that does not work well with SA8300s doesn't work well with Tivo either(see III.6 here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784) and the Seagate 7200.10 series does not work with ReplayTVs(http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8819941#post8819941).

xnappo

DoubleDAZ

12-12-07, 07:41 PM

By the way - the MyBook drive series that does not work well with SA8300s doesn't work well with Tivo either(see III.6 here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784) and the Seagate 7200.10 series does not work with ReplayTVs(http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8819941#post8819941).So let's all call Tivo and Replay software crap and their programmer's worthless like we do SA for crying out loud.

This whole issue is just so childish IMHO. If you don't like the software, fine. Get a job with them and make it better. If you think the hardware is the same all over, too bad, it's not. All drives work fine with PCs mostly because there is all kinds of error-checking, etc., going on to deal with the inconsistencies, not so with DVRs. Two totally different environments, two sets of specs, and different expectations.

As for support, neither cableco's or SA/Motorola/Tivo can possibly test all hardware configurations and I don't know of any HDD maker specifically designing drives for DVRs, even those supposedly optimized for DVR use. For all I know, optimized means simply turning off error-checking or something similar.

I know this is a simplistic POV, but if my drive doesn't work and I put a different one in the same case, I will tend to blame the original drive. That doesn't mean DVRs can't or shouldn't be changed to deal with a wider range of drives the same way PCs do. It also tends to support the idea that all drives are not equal. Don't PCs load different drivers based on the drive being used and don't these drivers deal with drive inconsistencies? Since DVRs can't do this, perhaps that is part of the problem. I'm quite sure a generic driver doesn't work correctly with all drives on PCs either.

BTW, xnappo, this is not directed at you, I just used your link to vent. :)

xnappo

12-12-07, 08:09 PM

BTW, xnappo, this is not directed at you, I just used your link to vent. :)

You make a good point really. Actually I have been quite impressed with the low level code of the SA8300 since I got the box. The video drivers, simultaneous streams etc all work quite well. The main area of complaint I had with the code was with the higher level code - but at least with SARA that has been fine for quite some time.

xnappo

DoubleDAZ

12-13-07, 09:03 AM

You make a good point really. Actually I have been quite impressed with the low level code of the SA8300 since I got the box. The video drivers, simultaneous streams etc all work quite well. The main area of complaint I had with the code was with the higher level code - but at least with SARA that has been fine for quite some time.The only thing I find lacking in SARA is a decent search/wishlist feature. I know a lot of folks like/use bookmarks, but I just don't watch my recordings that way. 14 day IPGs would be nice, but that has little to do with the interface. Mind you, I wouldn't object to some nice HD graphics with smoother fonts and a 3 hour grid, etc., but those are not deal breakers for me either.

I don't even use the search much on TitanTV, but it would be nice to add a title for recording whenever it shows up in the IPG instead of relying on reminders from TitanTV. However, none of these are worth paying extra for, at least not to me, and certainly not what Tivo charges new subs. I'll undoubtedly change my tune once more OCAP compatible options show up, but I'm not going to buy into the only option available now (Tivo) and then regret it.

billlh

12-13-07, 11:27 PM

I've read the last 3 months of this forum. Looked at the data in all three databases. The conclusions I've come to is as follows:

Either the Antec or the Apricorn case work if you use the proper drive. :cool:

The Seagate drives are a crap shoot at best. It appears the WD drives work consistantly.

So here is my situation. I have a new Antec MK-1 sitting on the shelf at home. I have two new Seagate ST3750640AS-RK drives also. But if I want to make this a sure thing then I probably should pony up for the WD7500AAKS? :mad:

I'm turning into a HD junkie, so their is no way a 160Gig drive is going to cut it for me! :eek:

My cable company is Time Warner out of Buffalo N.Y. The box is the SA 8300HD with HDMI port. Which is weird since the SA site says only the 8300HDC has HDMI port? But I saw two of them at the Cable company and they were both the same 8300HD's and both had HDMI. Isn't it so nice when the idiots keep their site up to date! :rolleyes: I'm pretty sure my box is running the Sara software. But I'm not positive. I'm not home so I can't just go check it. But from what I gleened from the data the software doesn't really have anything to do with if it works or not. It seems the hard drive is the biggest factor? I don't really have a lot of time to screw around with this. So I'm thinking that I might just be best to buy the WD drive and I shouldn't have too much trouble?

Any thoughts? :confused:

Bill

DoubleDAZ

12-14-07, 12:05 AM

Which is weird since the SA site says only the 8300HDC has HDMI port?I don't know where you are reading that or specifically what it says, but connection diagrams and User's Guides for several different models, including the 4250HD, 8300HD, 8240HDC and 8300HDC, show HDMI ports and have for at least the past 3 or so years for the 8300HD.

billlh

12-14-07, 12:15 AM

I don't know where you are reading that or specifically what it says, but connection diagrams and User's Guides for several different models, including the 4250HD, 8300HD, 8240HDC and 8300HDC, show HDMI ports and have for at least the past 3 or so years for the 8300HD.

I was reading it on their site. Your right I must have been looking at the non HD boxes. :confused:

Bill

DoubleDAZ

12-14-07, 08:20 AM

I was reading it on their site. Your right I must have been looking at the non HD boxes. :confused:Wasn't really trying to defend SA, they weve been behind the 8-ball on documentation for a few years until now. I was just curious where you were reading.

Anyway, that doesn't answer your question, but I'm sure someone will offer some advice. Software might play a little role because there are some different experiences if you are using Passport vs SARA, etc. Some will tell you that a dirve is a drive and if it doesn't work, it's the software at fault. There could be some truth to that too since a generic HDD driver is being used, but the databases have proved to be a very good indicator of what will or won't work.

xnappo

12-14-07, 09:49 AM

Any thoughts? :confused:

Bill

I would tend to agree with your assessment that the Seagates won't work... However if you have them sitting there, you could give it a shot. If it doesn't work then either you will have problems with the box recognizing the drive or you will get severe glitching when you record two HD shows, then after 10 seconds rewind on of them and watch while they continue to record.

xnappo

davehancock

12-14-07, 12:20 PM

I'm pretty sure my box is running the Sara software. But I'm not positive.Yes, TW in Buffalo runs SARA. I have calibration customers in the area and some have been running external drives for a couple of years now (installed when it was Adelphia). I'm not home so I can't just go check it. But from what I gleened from the data the software doesn't really have anything to do with if it works or not.Well it once did make quite a difference. Passport only gained external drive capability around a year ago - and even then there are some issues (no trick play buffer).
It seems the hard drive is the biggest factor? I don't really have a lot of time to screw around with this. So I'm thinking that I might just be best to buy the WD drive and I shouldn't have too much trouble? There are some enclosures that have issues in this application too - but just pick ones that consistently work from Xnappo's database. It's really not much problem to assemble a drive to an enclosure, but buying a "pre-built" solution takes the "mystery" out of it.

billlh

12-14-07, 06:10 PM

I would tend to agree with your assessment that the Seagates won't work... However if you have them sitting there, you could give it a shot. If it doesn't work then either you will have problems with the box recognizing the drive or you will get severe glitching when you record two HD shows, then after 10 seconds rewind on of them and watch while they continue to record.

xnappo

Yea if I wasn't so pressed for time I would try it. But right now I'm working 12 hr days 7 days a week. So money isn't the issue time is! I want to put one together that will just plain work. As I stated before I have the Antec MK-1 sitting on the shelf. So all I need is the drive that won't give me any issues. From what I could tell the WD's were the only ones you could say were mostly bullit proof.

Bill

billlh

12-14-07, 07:42 PM

Yes, TW in Buffalo runs SARA. I have calibration customers in the area and some have been running external drives for a couple of years now (installed when it was Adelphia).

What kind of calibration do you do? I'm a calibration technician myself.

Well it once did make quite a difference. Passport only gained external drive capability around a year ago - and even then there are some issues (no trick play buffer).

Well that is history now so it doesn't hold much relevance for me.

There are some enclosures that have issues in this application too - but just pick ones that consistently work from Xnappo's database. It's really not much problem to assemble a drive to an enclosure, but buying a "pre-built" solution takes the "mystery" out of it.

I have an Antec on the shelf and it shows no problems in the database. Building an enclosure is a non issue for me. I build computer systems quite regularly.

Bill

davehancock

12-14-07, 08:06 PM

What kind of calibration do you do? I'm a calibration technician myself.
Video (isf Certified) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=7485774&postcount=130).

EJT

12-15-07, 04:19 PM

This is another great AVS Forum.....just hooked up a WD5000AAKS (500GB) hard disk in a Antec MX-1 enclosure (came with eSATA cable).....unplugged my SA8300HD, plugged in the eSATA cable, powered up the Antec enclosure, plugged in the SA8300HD, asked if I wanted to format, responded yes with the remote's "A" button, waited 5 minutes, unplugged the SA8300HD, plugged it back in, and voila, I went from 49% of the disk space to 11%.

I will enter this in the data base when I have a few more minutes.....I am running SARA, in Markham, Ontario, on Rogers Cable.

I will put it through its' paces over the next week....we typically only tape HD programs, hence the need for more storage space. Thanks everyone! Merry Xmas!

linus15

12-16-07, 03:06 PM

DoubleDAZ

12-16-07, 06:12 PM

Hi

Looking to the database, I successfully added an external eSata Drive using a MadDog MegaVault eSata-USB/sata-ide case with a WD 500 Gb sata drive. I also read this thread but found nothing about the following question:

Have ever someone succeeded to attach an external drive #1 and record some programs until it is almost full then, removed this drive #1 and added and formatted an external drive #2 and recorded also programs on it. Then (I understand it could be annoying) connected back the drive #1 and watched/deleted some recorded programs and again connected back the drive #2 and do the same, and so on, and so on?

Is the OS (SARA) able to track down and keep accurate directory of programs recorded on multiple drives, i.e. knowing that a program is either on internal disk, drive#1 or drive#2?

Any feedback on such an experience would be welcome.

ThanksIIRC, that has been done, but not without a bit of hassle, reboots, etc., and I don't know that it was anything more than an exercise simply to see if it worked. SARA is not geared toward disk management and the list of recordings will not identify which drive, etc., you will have to maintain a manual list. Also, if you have to replace your 8300, all will be lost. The DVR is simply not an archive mechanism.

cbh2424

12-17-07, 03:27 PM

Question here. I had my external setup and running fine (SARA, Cox, 4240 HDC, blah, blah, blah) , until wife started trying to "hide" cables. So during playback, "king of the hill" for the detail oriented, it froze. Now all shows recorded on the external still appear on the menu, but will not play, the screen goes to the generic dvr screen that appears when you go to the dvr channel directly (ch 750 in my case). This has happened before when the external lost power, but usually a screen would appear telling me to first power off the dvr before disconnecting the external. Normally I reboot the dvr, unplug, wait about 10 seconds and plug back in, and things start working again. Well, that hasn't worked and it seems that the dvr isn't even seeing the external based on the fact that the recording space is being eaten on the the internal hard drive ratio (5% per hour compared to 1% with the working external with HD content). I've tried rebooting with the external powered, off, and unplugged, nothing seems to work. very frustrating as you all know. Any advice is appreciated.

EJT

12-17-07, 05:48 PM

DoubleDAZ

12-17-07, 09:52 PM

until wife started trying to "hide" cablesI don't have any advice, but why is it wives simply can't leave well enough alone? Have they no appreciation for the artistic look of cables strung all over the place. :)

dannyv@cybernex.

12-18-07, 08:51 AM

I've tried rebooting with the external powered, off, and unplugged, nothing seems to work. very frustrating as you all know. Any advice is appreciated.

You may want to try powering down and rebooting several times. I've read several posts in this forum stating they had to reboot 3 or 4 times for it to come back online. Also check sata cables maybe somthing got damaged when the wife was hiding wires. My wife loves to move furnature and try to stick the vacuum in tight spaces (Usually where I hide wires). I know it sounds cruel but sometimes I could think of a tight space she could stick the vacuum:)

BPlayer

12-18-07, 09:04 AM

Now all shows recorded on the external still appear on the menu, but will not play, the screen goes to the generic dvr screen that appears when you go to the dvr channel directly (ch 750 in my case).This symptom indicates that the PVR does not see the external HDD. This is caused either by the external HDD not being powered on or no connection via the eSata cable. The latter is the most likely cause, so check that it is securely plugged in to both units.

pepar

12-18-07, 09:26 AM

This symptom indicates that the PVR does not see the external HDD. This is caused either by the external HDD not being powered on or no connection via the eSata cable. The latter is the most likely cause, so check that it is securely plugged in to both units.
The cables *inside* the enclosure should be checked as well if the external ones are properly connected.

strutter

12-18-07, 09:56 AM

I could think of a tight space she could stick the vacuum:)

pics or vid please:D:D

cbh2424

12-18-07, 10:37 AM

Many thanks for the advice. I gave it another try last night unplugging and plugging back in in different orders. I think the winning combo was powering off the external, then the dvr, powering up the external, then the dvr, followed by a dvr unplug, external off, external on, dvr plug in. I got a little nervous at one point because the format option came up and I thought I was screwed. All is working and my wife is resting easier. Seriously though, do they have the touch of death? Everything she touches breaks, it's unbelievable. Before I got to work on the DVR I had to work on the dvd player that magically stopped working during the day. She drives my car and the satellite radio stops working. Two broken laptops last year, the list goes on and on...everyday I come home it's like, what is it going to be today? One last forum related question, what is the appropriate way to power off the external for a period of time with the expectation that it will work normally when powered back on? Oh, and hats off to the pioneers of this thread that were paying around $160US for an extra 15 hours of HD space. My rig was about $1US per HD hour.

DoubleDAZ

12-18-07, 09:12 PM

pics or vid please:D:DWhat? Are you trying to get this thread closed? :)

strutter

12-18-07, 10:31 PM

What? Are you trying to get this thread closed? :)

heck no:o......id rather them ban me instead....too much good stuff here.

he wouldnt have to post them here:rolleyes::D

deilenberger

12-19-07, 09:35 PM

billlh

12-19-07, 11:25 PM

http://www.buy.com/prod/cavalry-1tb-single-disk-dual-interface-usb-2-0-esata-external-hard/q/loc/101/205986373.html

Cavalry CAXE3701T0 - comes with cable and everything you need to plug and play. Hooked to my Cablevision 8300HD, rebooted once to format, and once to recognize and use it. Usage went from 67% to 6%. :eek:

That's TERABYTE folks for cheap $$. Ordered and received it in 3 days, free shipping. Hard to beat that deal. Only "problem" - the "on" and "activity" lights are a bit bright. VERY quiet, runs cool, what's not to like? :D

Sounds like a pretty good deal if your willing to take the risk. But I can't see me using this. I can't find any reviews anywhere on this thing. They only support it for 1 year. Seems to me your getting what you pay for. I just bought the WD7500AAKS for 149 with free shipping and the Antec MK-1 it is going in I got for about 50. So were talking 200 for quality stuff here. Granted it's only 750 GIGs. Good luck hope it works for you.

Bill

deilenberger

12-20-07, 12:21 AM

Sounds like a pretty good deal if your willing to take the risk. But I can't see me using this. I can't find any reviews anywhere on this thing. They only support it for 1 year. Seems to me your getting what you pay for. I just bought the WD7500AAKS for 149 with free shipping and the Antec MK-1 it is going in I got for about 50. So were talking 200 for quality stuff here. Granted it's only 750 GIGs. Good luck hope it works for you.

BillFrom what I can find the Cavalry uses a WD drive in the enclosure they make. You spent $200 and put it together (does this include the cable?) - I spent $230 and had plug and play.

YMMV but I'm very comfortable with what I bought and the results I got.

billlh

12-20-07, 03:32 AM

From what I can find the Cavalry uses a WD drive in the enclosure they make. You spent $200 and put it together (does this include the cable?) - I spent $230 and had plug and play.

YMMV but I'm very comfortable with what I bought and the results I got.

Yes the Antec has the cable. Putting it together is about as simple as it gets. So assembly isn't an issue. I'm just leary of no name crap. I'm not saying you bought a bad unit, I just don't know anything about it. Do a search for reviews on that drive you bought and you will see what I mean. No one has reviewed it for good or bad. I think the price you paid is fine. I just don't know how long it will last or if you can stand it (noise) after it's been running a while. One thing you are going to want to watch for though is excessive heat. Part of the reason I went with the Antec case is it has a large slow moving (quiet) fan. It pulls the air through the case over the entire drive. It's a very efficient cooler. Lots of the cheap cases come with fans that will drive you nuts. Not saying yours will just pointing out the pit falls of buying a case you know nothing about. Their are tons of reviews on the Antec case and almost everything I've read about it was positive. I hope that it works out for you. Please keep us informed I might be interested down the road once it has a track record established.

Bill

dannyv@cybernex.

12-20-07, 09:22 AM

DoubleDAZ

12-20-07, 09:39 AM

The link indicates its $317.98 not $230.00. Guess it must have been a one day black friday sale.No, I checked yesterday and it was still $228.97 plus tax and a $10 google discount for first time users. I think the link did have a 7-Day Sale banner and it simply must have been at the end of that period. The new price does make it less attractive, especially on a $/G basis, but it's nice to see larger drives getting some notice.

I, too, will be interested to see how this combo works after the drive starts filling up and while recording 2 HD/watching 1 HD, that is the true test. :)

Also, the experience needs to be entered into the applicable database and updated as needed.

Riverside_Guy

12-20-07, 11:49 AM

strutter

12-20-07, 12:45 PM

Uh, buy.com says it's $318, not $230.

it was 230 yesturday when i checked his link..it seems to have gone up today

billlh

12-20-07, 04:24 PM

Drive arrived yesterday and I put it together when I got home this morning. System found the drive with no problem and offered to format it. I wasn't sure how long to give it? So I left for half hour to 45 mins. Came back shut the box off (cable box) unplugged it and when it rebooted I went from 19% used (3 HD 1 hour programs) down to 3% used. Not sure if that sounds right or not? The box has a 160 GIG drive in it? Anyway I set up a bunch of movies to record so we shall see how it performs. I'll make an addition to the data base once I see how the shows actually recorded and if their are any glitches. Hopefully all the hard work and reporting others have done here will make this a no brainer.

For anyone curious about the Antec MK-1. I have 3 of these and I have to say this is the best external case I've ever worked with period! I have a lot of other cases both 3.5 and 2.5 and nothing else even comes close. To anyone sitting on the fence about buying one of these. Yes they are worth the extra cost. One really nice thing is I set mine in my entertainment system right on top of the Cable Box. It looks right at home with all my other gear stays very cool and the soft blue Hard drive led actually sets it off very nice. I highly reccomend it.

Thanks,

Bill

dannyv@cybernex.

12-21-07, 09:02 AM

it was 230 yesturday when i checked his link..it seems to have gone up today

Oh well guess I just missed the sale. Buy-dot-com does have great prices and every so often you come across an unbeleavable sale. I just got a buffalo linkstation live 500GB NAS for 202.00 and everywhere else wanted 299.00 for it.

jczinn

12-23-07, 10:49 PM

davehancock

12-23-07, 10:58 PM

I have suddenly begun having a really odd issue after installing an eSata drive. I am not 100% sure if the drive is the culprit but wanted some insight, as this is so strange.

The particulars: SA 8300HD, Vox Ion 250 GB eSata drive, Time Warner with Navigator (Brooklyn, NY). Everything worked fine at first...drive recognized, formatted, recordings and playback ok. But now, after a few days, everytime I turn off the cable box, when I turn it back on there is no signal at all. The box is on but no video or sound, no functions will work. A reboot brings everything back, and everything is fine until I again turn off the box. When it turns back on, same thing...no signal until I reboot. So essentially I am rebooting every time I turn on the box/tv.

But here's the even weirder thing. Occasionally, I turn off the box and I am still getting the signal! I.e., the 8300 is OFF and yet I am still getting the full sound and image of the channel that I was tuned to. Of course, none of the controls work, but the signal is coming through. How is this even possible?

I am planning to swap out the box later in the week for a replacement, but just wondering if anyone has thoughts on this first. Obviously one thing is to disconnect the external drive and see if it all goes back to normal, but a) I really, really want/need that extra drive space; and b) I'm really curious as to what could possibly be going on here.

Thanks....

Befuddled in BrooklynJust a caution on exchanging the DVR: Any recordings that you have on the external drive WILL NOT be playable on the new DVR. The recordings to the hard drive (either internal or external) are encoded with a key that matches ONLY the DVR that recorded them.

The other "suggestion" is to not turn off the DVR.

jczinn

12-23-07, 11:03 PM

Just a caution on exchanging the DVR: Any recordings that you have on the external drive WILL NOT be playable on the new DVR. The recordings to the hard drive (either internal or external) are encoded with a key that matches ONLY the DVR that recorded them.

The other "suggestion" is to not turn off the DVR.

Thanks, yeah I know that---that's why I'm not swapping it until the end of the week, fortunately I have the week off and can catch up with everything already recorded on both drives (not really that much on the external since its new.)

And the DVR never powers off...its got an on/off switch which is always on and plugged in independently of the box or tv.

davehancock

12-23-07, 11:15 PM

And the DVR never powers off...its got an on/off switch which is always on and plugged in independently of the box or tv.I'm confused: why did you say everytime I turn off the cable box, when I turn it back on there is no signal at all. I was suggesting that YOU not turn it off as a potential solution to your problem.

jczinn

12-23-07, 11:19 PM

I'm confused: why did you say I was suggesting that YOU not turn it off as a potential solution to your problem.

Sorry, my confusion--I misread and thought you were referring to the external drive. Its the eSata that I never shut off. As for the DVR, I tried your idea but unfortunately it seems to shut itself off after some period of inactivity overnight, so that didn't help.

mtchang

12-24-07, 10:24 AM

davehancock

12-24-07, 11:19 AM

Hi,
Cavalry has
Cavalry 2TB Hard Drive - Dual Interface (USB 2.0 & eSATA) RAID - External Hard Drive - CADA002SA2
on Buy.com for $490
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=206461304&adid=17070&dcaid=17070
Anyone know if it works with SA8300HD?
Thank you.
Min.I doubt it, but check Xnappo's database (link on first post on this thread).

rentwist

12-25-07, 10:29 AM

Hi,
Cavalry has
Cavalry 2TB Hard Drive - Dual Interface (USB 2.0 & eSATA) RAID - External Hard Drive - CADA002SA2
on Buy.com for $490
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=206461304&adid=17070&dcaid=17070
Anyone know if it works with SA8300HD?
Thank you.
Min.

From my personal experience, Calvary drives are very problematic.

jfile

12-25-07, 12:30 PM

I have a system with the setup that most people have had very good success with: Vantec enclosure, WD hard drive. I had not noticed any problems in the relatively light use in the 2 weeks I have had it. I just noticed that 2 of my HD recordings have a problem with the sound whereby I can hear the background noises and music, but the voices are not there. It is as if the center channel is missing. I don't have this problem on the couple of other HD recordings or any of my SD recordings. Does this sound like it could be a "glitch", or is it more apt to be a problem with the transmission. If it was just one instance, I would think transmission, but two, makes me wonder. Thoughts?

davehancock

12-25-07, 02:23 PM

EJT

12-25-07, 04:01 PM

Okay, so now I am experiencing an odd problem.....I have a WD5000AAKS (500GB) hard disk in a Antec MX-1 enclosure (came with eSATA cable) hooked up to my SA8300HD PVR. It seems every time I power down the 8300 (using its' power button, not the power cord), and then turn it back on, it does not see the external drive which is left powered on 24/7.

I have to then go through powering down the external drive, unplugging the 8300, turning the external drive back on, plugging the 8300 in again, letting it boot, and then having to format the external drive, uplug the 8300, and then plug it in again. Then the 8300 sees the external drive's additional capacity.

Pain in the butt.....any suggestions? TIA.

davehancock

12-25-07, 05:36 PM

jczinn

12-25-07, 09:22 PM

I have suddenly begun having a really odd issue after installing an eSata drive. I am not 100% sure if the drive is the culprit but wanted some insight, as this is so strange.

The particulars: SA 8300HD, Vox Ion 250 GB eSata drive, Time Warner with Navigator (Brooklyn, NY). Everything worked fine at first...drive recognized, formatted, recordings and playback ok. But now, after a few days, everytime I turn off the cable box, when I turn it back on there is no signal at all. The box is on but no video or sound, no functions will work. A reboot brings everything back, and everything is fine until I again turn off the box. When it turns back on, same thing...no signal until I reboot. So essentially I am rebooting every time I turn on the box/tv.

But here's the even weirder thing. Occasionally, I turn off the box and I am still getting the signal! I.e., the 8300 is OFF and yet I am still getting the full sound and image of the channel that I was tuned to. Of course, none of the controls work, but the signal is coming through. How is this even possible?

I am planning to swap out the box later in the week for a replacement, but just wondering if anyone has thoughts on this first. Obviously one thing is to disconnect the external drive and see if it all goes back to normal, but a) I really, really want/need that extra drive space; and b) I'm really curious as to what could possibly be going on here.

Thanks....

Befuddled in Brooklyn

Updating this: It got to the point where the box wasn't responding at all, even after multiple reboots. So I've now disconnedted the Vox drive, and lo and behold things seem back to normal so far. So it seems the drive was the culprit and nothing really wrong with the DVR. However, I am still not sure what was happening or why it worked just fine for several days and then the problems started. I would really like to use an external drive but now I'm leary of trying a different one until I can figure out just why this one was so problematic, as it was recognized, formatted, and recorded just fine---just the DVR would not behave normally with it attached.

DoubleDAZ

12-25-07, 09:38 PM

EJT

12-25-07, 09:55 PM

SARA, Passport, Navigator?

Sorry Dave.....SARA

davehancock

12-25-07, 10:53 PM

Sorry Dave.....SARAOK then, maybe I can help. It looks like you have gone (mostly) through the right steps. I suggest COMPLETELY going through the Set-Up Wizard again. Power the box back on, THEN doing a HARD Reboot (Unplug power to cable box leaving ext drive powered and connected, wait at least 30 seconds, WHILE HOLDING FRONT PANEL POWER button, plug power back in, Release POWER whe "boot" appears on the front panel, resume use of DVR when time appears on front panel). There is some memory rebuilding that goes on with the HARD reboot that often resolves problems that a regular reboot doesn't solve.

EJT

12-26-07, 12:36 PM

OK then, maybe I can help. It looks like you have gone (mostly) through the right steps. I suggest COMPLETELY going through the Set-Up Wizard again. Power the box back on, THEN doing a HARD Reboot (Unplug power to cable box leaving ext drive powered and connected, wait at least 30 seconds, WHILE HOLDING FRONT PANEL POWER button, plug power back in, Release POWER whe "boot" appears on the front panel, resume use of DVR when time appears on front panel). There is some memory rebuilding that goes on with the HARD reboot that often resolves problems that a regular reboot doesn't solve.

Dave, thank you.....I will try it later today or tomorrow....taking in a movie and dinner with the family. A Christams tradition. Best of the season to you!

jczinn

12-27-07, 08:01 AM

I don't know, but have you tried reseating ALL drive connections, inside and out, and to the DVR? Often enough, connections become loose and cause recognition problems. This may not have anything to do with it, but it's always worth a shot.

I'm going to try that next...everything is stable again without the Vox drive connected; tonight I'm going to start all over with it and see if the same issues occur again. If so...then I guess this drive will be demoted to PC backup, and I'll have to try again with a different drive---but I'm leery now!

Meteor

12-27-07, 01:07 PM

Hi,
Cavalry has
Cavalry 2TB Hard Drive - Dual Interface (USB 2.0 & eSATA) RAID - External Hard Drive - CADA002SA2
on Buy.com for $490
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=206461304&adid=17070&dcaid=17070
Anyone know if it works with SA8300HD?
Thank you.
Min.
No it won't work there isn't any 2TB standalone hard drive yet. Only one SATA drive can be connected to the 8300HD. The 8300HD will not support a separate port multiplier.

Riverside_Guy

12-27-07, 02:34 PM

No it won't work there isn't any 2TB standalone hard drive yet. Only one SATA drive can be connected to the 8300HD. The 8300HD will not support a separate port multiplier.

Not so sure we can 100% rule that out. Generally speaking, a box that holds multiple drives WITH an onboard RAID chip will "present" to the host system as one single drive. I have a 2 drive box wit a RAID chip (FW 400/800) and to the host computer, it's always a single volume (having nothing to do with port multipliers).

Then again, there clearly is something way wrong with the software running on our DVRs to expand storage. IMO of course, but it COULD be that it has issues with volume mount points... anyway, not saying it will work, but not stating for a fact it won't.

davehancock

12-27-07, 09:15 PM

Not so sure we can 100% rule that out. Generally speaking, a box that holds multiple drives WITH an onboard RAID chip will "present" to the host system as one single drive. I have a 2 drive box wit a RAID chip (FW 400/800) and to the host computer, it's always a single volume (having nothing to do with port multipliers).

Then again, there clearly is something way wrong with the software running on our DVRs to expand storage. IMO of course, but it COULD be that it has issues with volume mount points... anyway, not saying it will work, but not stating for a fact it won't.Meteor's statement was a Quote from the SA documentation. It was NOT his conjecture. And the fact that SA points out that it is not intended to work with a port multiplier, indicates that it was not designed to work with one, not tested with one, and should not be expected to work with one. It is NOT a case of "something way wrong with the software running on our DVRs to expand storage". Probably it is because it was not designed the way that YOU wanted.

tinman_99

12-28-07, 03:05 PM

Updating this: It got to the point where the box wasn't responding at all, even after multiple reboots. So I've now disconnedted the Vox drive, and lo and behold things seem back to normal so far. So it seems the drive was the culprit and nothing really wrong with the DVR. However, I am still not sure what was happening or why it worked just fine for several days and then the problems started. I would really like to use an external drive but now I'm leary of trying a different one until I can figure out just why this one was so problematic, as it was recognized, formatted, and recorded just fine---just the DVR would not behave normally with it attached.

I had a similar problem last weekend. I have the 8300HDC w/Navigator and an external WD drive. Been working fine for several months, then last weekend I had to reboot the box several times before anything would come up. It worked for a day, then the same problem the next morning. I was out, so the wife rebooted several times and got it back up and going. Later that day, I noticed many saved programs were missing from the list. Looking at the recording log, it says 'the set-top box was unable to record'. Unplugged the box, ext drive and started them back up. System was back online, but the programs are still missing. Lost the programs, but the box and ext drive has been working again for the last several days. Not sure what happened, but the box never asked me to reformat, so I assume the drive is intact and back in action. Something got messed up in the recordings table though...shame, as I lost some programs I was hoping to catch up on during the year end break...

BobKat6

12-28-07, 03:17 PM

I had a similar problem last weekend. I have the 8300HDC w/Navigator and an external WD drive. Been working fine for several months, then last weekend I had to reboot the box several times before anything would come up. It worked for a day, then the same problem the next morning. I was out, so the wife rebooted several times and got it back up and going. Later that day, I noticed many saved programs were missing from the list. Looking at the recording log, it says 'the set-top box was unable to record'. Unplugged the box, ext drive and started them back up. System was back online, but the programs are still missing. Lost the programs, but the box and ext drive has been working again for the last several days. Not sure what happened, but the box never asked me to reformat, so I assume the drive is intact and back in action. Something got messed up in the recordings table though...shame, as I lost some programs I was hoping to catch up on during the year end break...

If any were ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, ETC., ETC. check out Amazon Unbox. At $1.99 each episode you don't have to sit through commercials like direct from the Networks and you can watch them at your leisure.

Bob

DVDO+WESTY=1080p

12-28-07, 03:19 PM

Meteor's statement was a Quote from the SA documentation. It was NOT his conjecture. And the fact that SA points out that it is not intended to work with a port multiplier, indicates that it was not designed to work with one, not tested with one, and should not be expected to work with one. It is NOT a case of "something way wrong with the software running on our DVRs to expand storage". Probably it is because it was not designed the way that YOU wanted.

it could be worth a try there are several 5 port hard drive enclosures and maybe if you put 5 1TB drives in them then maybe the 8300HD willl read 5TB as one drive!

Skylark

12-29-07, 01:48 AM

I have a Thermaltake Max4 USB2 and eSATA enclosure with fan on order from Newegg and have a Seagate 300GB SATA drive in a second PC running WinXP that I want to use on my SA 8300. After reading and searching I'm not sure of the answer.

1. I've read a post that says after reformating the drive with ntfs in the PC it works on the 8300.
2. I've read that a low level format is the way to go.
3. I've read that the 8300 does not care how the drive was partitioned or formatted and it just formats it the way it wants.

The Seagate drive I intend to use is currently partioned in half. Should I delete the partitions using WinXP? Should I reformat it as one partition using ntfs? Should I leave it as unformated "free space"? Or just take the drive as is and install it on the SA 8300?

The SA 8300 is running SARA.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks,
Skylark

Hughmc

12-29-07, 06:25 AM

External My Book 320g HD with eSATA, FW, and USB. Connected by PNY eSATA cable and got the message many got about cable not connected properly. Having no luck at all. Did all the reboot several times and change the cable around. I have SARA software.

DoubleDAZ

12-29-07, 08:43 AM

The Seagate drive I intend to use is currently partioned in half. Should I delete the partitions using WinXP? Should I reformat it as one partition using ntfs? Should I leave it as unformated "free space"? Or just take the drive as is and install it on the SA 8300?AFAIK, the references to formatting the drive on a PC (NTFS or otherwise) is simply meant as a troubleshooting technique. Sometimes the 8300 loses the settings (or whatever) that tells it a SATA drive is attached. Formatting on a PC can reset the drive so the 8300 will recognize it as a new drive and let you start all over. I don't believe it matters whether or not you delete partitions or reformat your drive. But, it certainly won't hurt anything and you are waiting for your enclosure, so it's up to you if you want to take the time.

FWIW, the 8300 doesn't format the drive in the traditional sense. It simply sets indicators and probably creates an initial index. It basically streams data to the drive and doesn't store recordings using a standard PC-like file management system. Also, it ties the recordings to the 8300 so that if you have to replace the 8300, your recordings are lost. For this reason, don't get caught up in any long-term archiving frenzy. :)

Skylark

12-29-07, 05:50 PM

AFAIK, the references to formatting the drive on a PC (NTFS or otherwise) is simply meant as a troubleshooting technique. Sometimes the 8300 loses the settings (or whatever) that tells it a SATA drive is attached. Formatting on a PC can reset the drive so the 8300 will recognize it as a new drive and let you start all over. I don't believe it matters whether or not you delete partitions or reformat your drive. But, it certainly won't hurt anything and you are waiting for your enclosure, so it's up to you if you want to take the time.

FWIW, the 8300 doesn't format the drive in the traditional sense. It simply sets indicators and probably creates an initial index. It basically streams data to the drive and doesn't store recordings using a standard PC-like file management system. Also, it ties the recordings to the 8300 so that if you have to replace the 8300, your recordings are lost. For this reason, don't get caught up in any long-term archiving frenzy. :)
Dave,

Thanks much for your info and thanks too for your in-depth SA8300 SARA Tips and Tricks thread. I'll go ahead and delete the WinXP partitons on my used Seagate 300GB drive and make it look like a new drive out of the box and see what happens.

Skylark

Hughmc

12-30-07, 01:57 AM

jczinn

12-30-07, 11:57 AM

I returned the WD My book and I got the WD DVR expander, 500g. I don't understand the difference why the other drive wouldn't work.

I see no reason for anyone to get anything but this drive if it remains to be a backup for your DVR. It has no issues and connects easily. To me it makes no sense to get any other drive internal or external and hassle with them.

This is the way it should be. Plugged it in, walk away and it is good to go.

I tried to find this drive but it was completely unavailable before Christmas. Now i see it at Best Buy, but at $219 it is considerably more expensive than other choices. However if I can't get the Vox drive back in action then I may have to go for this one...

Meantime I've not yet tried re-installing the Vox drive as I wanted to be sure to have hassle-free viewing/recording over the holiday week; everything is working fine and I am trying to catch up with recorded shows on the 8300 and deleting to free up some space in the meantime :) I'll report back when I get a chance to hook the Vox back up.

dack70

12-30-07, 04:13 PM

Hughmc

12-30-07, 04:17 PM

I tried to find this drive but it was completely unavailable before Christmas. Now i see it at Best Buy, but at $219 it is considerably more expensive than other choices. However if I can't get the Vox drive back in action then I may have to go for this one...

Meantime I've not yet tried re-installing the Vox drive as I wanted to be sure to have hassle-free viewing/recording over the holiday week; everything is working fine and I am trying to catch up with recorded shows on the 8300 and deleting to free up some space in the meantime :) I'll report back when I get a chance to hook the Vox back up.

Thye have it online for 199.00 and will price match their own online site. From the WD home page you can locate it and locate where it is sold. It looks like many places carry it.

Skylark

12-30-07, 06:33 PM

My DVR is not even close to being full yet, so I'm assuming nothing is recorded to the external drive yet. This problem isn't huge, but it does get quite annoying. Has anyone else seen this?
I've read that the DVR will record to which ever drive is the least full. It does not fill up the internal drive first and then start recording to the external drive.

dack70

12-30-07, 06:42 PM

I've read that the DVR will record to which ever drive is the least full. It does not fill up the internal drive first and then start recording to the external drive.
Interesting. Does that go for pausing live tv as well? I'm assuming the DVR is constantly recording to the drive while live tv is playing, thus giving us the ability to rewind. If this is true, maybe the external drive is the problem.

jojo57

01-02-08, 06:22 PM

Plug and Play 320g - 86% full to 26%:D
and came with a cable too...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822101028

billlh

01-03-08, 12:42 AM

So far WD75000AAKS in Antec MK-1 case, all is good. About 60% full all HD recordings. Looks like it is using about 1% per hour of HD programing. I've seen maybe so far one or two minor glitches. Otherwise everything is good. Case is a little loud for a living room but fortunately I sit far enough away. But I do hear the drives when everything is off. Guess thats the price we pay for our toys.

Bill

art-yow

01-03-08, 09:10 AM

I am using a WD 500gig drive with a TAOETEC enclosure, runing SARA on Rogers in Ottawa. The setup worked well for several months, I am now getting video freeze ups when watching live HD. The external drive seems to be running fine.

Past posts on this symptom have indicated loose connections or failed external drives. I don't think this the case as programs recorded on the external drive play back without a problem. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Art

brigont

01-03-08, 09:26 AM

Guys,

I have now been through 3 Apricorn Xpander products including their BUS product that has increased fan speed (aka noise).

The connections between my 8300 and the xpanders keep failing. It will work for a week or two and then crap out. I tried the 500 gig, 750 gig, different housings, and the Apricorn BUS product. They all worked for a bit and then one day would just stop working. I also traded in my 8300 boxes a few times along the way.

I took the hard drives out of the apric. housing and put them into my computer. The drives themselves are in tact. I can't put my finger on it but something keeps killing the connection.

I have the unit hooked to a power conditioner and there were no power outages or other issues I can map the issue to.

I can't take it anymore. I am going to wait and upgrade to the new TivoHD one day.

For now I'm shifting my focus to a DVD/HDDVD/BluRay machine for now.

Best of luck folks.

Brian
Cablevision NJ

xnappo

01-03-08, 10:16 AM

bb09

01-03-08, 11:31 AM

Anyone know the proper sequence to disconnect an Apricorn DVR Xpander? Is it the same for all drives?

Here's the situation. I have bought a new surge protector, so I need to unplug everything from the old one and plug it in to the new one. Obviously, I need to unplug both the 8300HD and the Xpander. Is there a proper sequence without losing my information or having to re-format the drive?

I call Apricorn and the guy told me:

Power down the Xpander
Unplug the Xpander
Unplug the 8300

Then reverse the order to re-connect

However on the Apricorn website it says:

"Q: Is it okay to disconnect a Xpander drive from a DVR?

A: Users are advised not to unplug, or disconnect the drive while the DVR unit is plugged in or operating. To safely disconnect the drive from a DVR, first unplug the DVR from its power source, wait 10 seconds, and then disconnect the Xpander drive. "

so this is saying I should unplug the 8300 first. Any thoughts? Am I mis-reading something?

holl_ands

01-03-08, 07:27 PM

ALWAYS keep eSATA drive POWERED UP and connected until you remove DVR power cable.

Disconnect/reconnect cable when power is DISCONNECTED from DVR and eSATA is OFF.

Turn eSATA drive ON, BEFORE plugging power plug back into DVR to reboot.

===================================
PS: If you power down eSATA drive while DVR is running, PASSPORT DVR
will display a menu (basically) saying the external drive has been disconnected,
asking you to remove power from DVR, reapply power to eSATA drive and reboot....
after which everything should still be okay.

bb09

01-03-08, 08:20 PM

Skylark

01-03-08, 10:36 PM

Post #6225: I have a Thermaltake Max4 USB2 and eSATA enclosure with fan on order from Newegg and have a Seagate 300GB SATA drive in a second PC running WinXP that I want to use on my SA 8300....snip
Just installed the combo above and it is working great so far. Came up on first boot, formatted, still 77%, did 2nd boot, then said 15%. Recorded about 30 minutes and playback is perfect.

The Thermaltake Max 4 N0012US enclosure is a winner.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153061

It has a built-in fan that is absolutely quiet from about 1 foot away, though it moves enough air to feel it exiting the front and back of the box. Had to hold ear next to fan to hear it. ..... It has a stand to hold the unit in the vertical position though one could put four rubber feet on the non-fan side to place it flat since the box is rectangular in nature. ..... It comes with a power brick (not wallwart) which allows easy plugging into a crowded power strip. It also comes with a USB cable, an eSATA cable (which is what I'm using), and a SATA to eSATA cable mounted to a PC back plate.

The blue light on the front of the unit is rather bright and the "in-use" blinking is rather distracting when watching TV. I put a piece of black electrical tape over the light and can still see the reflections of the light inside of the case through the front grill. (completely vented front grill made up of many small holes.). The reflections are not noticeable at all while watching TV from my normal viewing distance of about 7 feet, but I can see the reflections if I focus on the reflections through the grill. Perfect disk activity indicator with the tape on.

Skylark

Skylark

01-03-08, 10:50 PM

...snip... PS: If you power down eSATA drive while DVR is running, PASSPORT DVR
will display a menu (basically) saying the external drive has been disconnected,
asking you to remove power from DVR, reapply power to eSATA drive and reboot....
after which everything should still be okay.
When you say "while DVR is running", do you mean powered off via the remote but still plugged in?
If so, does the menu still display even if the DVR is powered off?

For SARA users, does this behavior happen also? (I'm running SARA but I don't want to experiment until my new external drive which I installed today is tested good for at least a couple of weeks.)

holl_ands

01-04-08, 12:00 AM

By "running" I mean when actually displaying a picture....so you can see the menu pop up....

When the DVR is plugged in and "OFF" it obviously won't display the pop-up....
but will probably muddle through when you switch it back "ON".

=========================
BTW: I just replaced my DVR Xpander under warranty so I've spent a lot of time recently
trying various permutations. DVR showed larger size in Diagnostic Menu, but couldn't write.

Connecting to laptop via USB port, after reboot Device Manager saw WD5000 HDD,
but it failed partition/format process. Yup, the Xpander was sick...

This was after I lost all external drive recordings...AGAIN...first time was a couple months ago.

The replacement Xpander is MUCH QUIETER than original.....hmmm, maybe it's related....
It's now quieter than the SA8300HD (which is fairly noisy).

============================
PS: Apricorn guy said they swap among several different eSATA drives, making sure
to disconnect power to DVR & power down eSATA drive before making the swap.

Anyone brave enough to try????

DoubleDAZ

01-04-08, 08:45 AM

PS: Apricorn guy said they swap among several different eSATA drives, making sure to disconnect power to DVR & power down eSATA drive before making the swap.There have already been posts by a few people who do this. You pretty much have to keep a manual list of what is on each drive and it's some hassle disconnecting/reconnecting, etc., but if you want to spend the money on multiple drives, it works. As you have found out, the only real problem is that if you replace your 8300, it's all for naught, everything is lost.

strutter

01-04-08, 10:34 AM

channel G4 is providing CES 2008 coverage.

Monday, 1/7, 7pm EST, G4 ,CES 2008 first day coverage

Tuesday, 1/8, 7pm EST, G4, CES 2008 second day coverage

jfbuchanan

01-04-08, 12:31 PM

I'm wondering if any of you have seen this problem:

I have the 8300HDC DVR with the 500GB My DVR Extender from WD. When I hooked up the external drive, it asked me to format and even said this drive IS compatible with my DVR. After that everything seems to be working, well,... OK. The only problem I am seeing is, when I'm watching a recorded show, or even a paused show, I get pixelation hic-ups every couple minutes or so. This never happens when I'm watching live tv though, so it seems the problem only happens when watching tv from the DVR. My DVR is not even close to being full yet, so I'm assuming nothing is recorded to the external drive yet. This problem isn't huge, but it does get quite annoying. Has anyone else seen this?
I got the exact same results as you with the same setup you have. Every couple of minutes the video would pixelate and recover. I tried everything I could think of, including contacting Apricorn tech support (worthless) and eventually gave up. I use the Xpander with my PC for bulk storage, so it wasn't a complete waste.

brigont

01-04-08, 12:36 PM

Guys,

a few pages ago I quit... but then again I hate giving up and want more HD recording space. I am willing to give it one more shot.

I have a 500gig xpander with has a segate drive inside.

I am willing to dump the xpander enclosure and drop the drive into another box.

Can anyone recommend a super quiet enclosure that has significant proven working time for my last attempt?

Brian :eek:

dannyv@cybernex.

01-04-08, 12:38 PM

DVR showed larger size in Diagnostic Menu, but couldn't write.

Connecting to laptop via USB port, after reboot Device Manager saw WD5000 HDD,
but it failed partition/format process. Yup, the Xpander was sick...

I have the apricorn ezbus kit not the expander with a WD aaks 500GB drive. I've had one hard drive give that exact symptom and I returned the drive and when I got the new one and put it in the apricorn case the DVR would not even recognize it. Then I connected it to my laptop and it was recognize but again you could not partition or format the drive. I then took a power brick from an azio case (same brick) and put it on the apricorn case and it worked perfectly. I RMA'ed apricorn for a new power brick and for 2 weeks now the ext. drive is great.

People don't just assume the hard drive or case is bad. It very well could be the power supply brick.

This seems to be a common symptom on these apricorn's lately.