8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! [Text View] - Page 3

ClickCardo

08-21-05, 05:39 PM

pepar

08-21-05, 06:24 PM

Back in May I made a successfull external drive setup with my 8300hd consisting of a now previous generation 7Y250M0 250GB Maxtor SATA Hard Drive and an Addonics Hard Drive Combo encloser/cradle with fan and Cruz cable. Everything had been working perfectly untill 10 minutes ago when I heard a loud grinding/whirring type sound from the drive/enclosure. It was very warm on top and when I lifted the cradle off the glass/plastic stereo rack the bottom was very/very/very warm (almost hot).

I turned on the TV/8300HD and all my recordings were still listed. I powered down the 8300HD then powered down the SATA. I should have tried to play a couple shows, but what the heck. My drives list at 85% so I'd hate to lose anything.

Can anybody give me immediate advice on what I should do?

Thanks
CC
I'll guess that you know that grinding and whirring noises are not a good thing to hear from hard drives or you would have said "Oh boy, finally my hard drive is making noises!" Seriously though, at this point you should consider all your data LOST, and take measures to see IF any is recoverable. From now on until you've recovered data or decided that it's all toast, this drive should have any extra cooling you can muster. Removal from the case is a good first step. OK, actually verifying the operation of the case fan is probably the first thing. If it's not working, then that was the reason your rig is overheating; if it is working, then it's just that your hard drive's bearings have given out, or are in the process thereof.

Two things working against you here are the fact that the data is encrypted and that the encryption is unique to your 8300HD, i.e. it will NOT work with any other box. The next thing that is making your task more difficult is that the format is not the one used by your computer. That's the bad news. Unfortunately, there's more bad news; there is no good news. Hopefully, somebody will be able to offer up a piece of software that will allow you to make a bit-for-bit copy of the drive's contents. If it were me, I'd be googling like crazy now to find something.

Sorry I have nothing positive to offer you.

pepar

08-21-05, 06:25 PM

EDIT: Just removed the drive from the cradle and powered up the cradle/fan. It's the fan that seems to be making most of the whirring sound. Do I just get another cradle/fan? Would Addonics replace it for me? Do I put the drive back in untill then

Can I power up my 8300HD w/o the SATA. (possibly use the 8300HD w/o it). Then put the same drive back in when I get the new cradle.

CLOSE EDIT:

Can anybody give me immediate advice on what I should do?

Thanks
CC

That's a bit of good news; is the hard drive making ANY strange noises?

Edit: The heat build-up is still likely from your hard drive and, if it's been too hot for too long, it is still in danger and you should investigate methods of cloning the drive.

BPlayer

08-21-05, 07:48 PM

I turned on the TV/8300HD and all my recordings were still listed. I powered down the 8300HD then powered down the SATA. I should have tried to play a couple shows, but what the heck. My drives list at 85% so I'd hate to lose anything.

Can I power up my 8300HD w/o the SATA. (possibly use the 8300HD w/o it). Then put the same drive back in when I get the new cradle.

You can power up the 8300HD without the external HDD. It will retain the recording pointers to the external HDD. If you try to play any of the recordings that were made to the external HDD it will just flip you back to a menu screen (channel 950 in my area). As long as you do not erase these recordings from the list you will be able to play them when you reconnect the external HDD.

Depending on how full the internal and external drives were, some of your recent recording might be on the internal drive. You can play and erase these without affecting the pointers to recordings on the external HDD.

There is a good chance that there was no damage to the HDD. You may want to consider getting one of the aluminum fanless enclosures as a replacement. The fan could have quit while you were away for a vacation or a long weekend leaving the HDD without cooling for a long time, which would surely lead to its failure.

ClickCardo

08-21-05, 08:47 PM

There is a good chance that there was no damage to the HDD. You may want to consider getting one of the aluminum fanless enclosures as a replacement. The fan could have quit while you were away for a vacation or a long weekend leaving the HDD without cooling for a long time, which would surely lead to its failure.

The FAN still runs, it just makes the noise.

Thanks for the good news BPlayer. Can you give me any suggestions/links for an aluminum enclosure? I would think a fanless enclosure would get hotter than one with a fan. Maybe you mean ALUMINUM-FANLESS cooler than PLASTIC-FAN enclosure.

Thanks
CC

ClickCardo

08-21-05, 08:53 PM

Depending on how full the internal and external drives were, some of your recent recording might be on the internal drive. You can play and erase these without affecting the pointers to recordings on the external HDD.

Do you think I could record to the internal while the external was detached?

pepar

08-21-05, 11:15 PM

There is a good chance that there was no damage to the HDD. You may want to consider getting one of the aluminum fanless enclosures as a replacement. The fan could have quit while you were away for a vacation or a long weekend leaving the HDD without cooling for a long time, which would surely lead to its failure.

I might have been overly alarmist, but "loud grinding/whirring type sound(s)" don't start for no reason. I never did read that it was ONLY the fan making the nosie; ClickCardo only said it was making "most" of it. That's an important distinction. Hopefully, he's out of the woods, but it strikes me that we do not have enough information to give his drive a clean bill of health.

BPlayer

08-22-05, 09:36 AM

Can you give me any suggestions/links for an aluminum enclosure?

Do you think I could record to the internal while the external was detached?

I am using a StarTeck IDECASE32SAT aluminum fanless enclosure. It does get hot, but the design is supposed to be able to dissipate the required heat. I will know in a year or two if it was sufficient (hopefully not less).

You can continue to record to the 8300HD with the external HDD disconnected without loosing any of the pointer to what was recorded on the external HDD.

BenDover

08-22-05, 09:44 AM

You can power up the 8300HD without the external HDD. It will retain the recording pointers to the external HDD. If you try to play any of the recordings that were made to the external HDD it will just flip you back to a menu screen (channel 950 in my area). As long as you do not erase these recordings from the list you will be able to play them when you reconnect the external HDD.

Depending on how full the internal and external drives were, some of your recent recording might be on the internal drive. You can play and erase these without affecting the pointers to recordings on the external HDD.

There is a good chance that there was no damage to the HDD. You may want to consider getting one of the aluminum fanless enclosures as a replacement. The fan could have quit while you were away for a vacation or a long weekend leaving the HDD without cooling for a long time, which would surely lead to its failure.

Has anyone tried more than one external drive; i.e., fill up one external, switch to another empty(ier) external and still be able to play the recordings on either external drive, depending on which is connected at that time?

BPlayer

08-22-05, 09:51 AM

I might have been overly alarmist, but "loud grinding/whirring type sound(s)" don't start for no reason.

Hopefully, he's out of the woods, but it strikes me that we do not have enough information to give his drive a clean bill of health.
He identified the fan as the cause, and the load grinding would be because of its failure, bearings shot or housing warped from the heat. Who knows.

I agree that that condition of the HDD is unknown, but I was trying to give him an optimistic outlook. Actually he can just go ahead and reconnect and test it in the existing case. Even if the fan is shot running the drive for 10 minutes without the fan will not be a problem. That should be sufficient time to determine if the drive has been severely damaged. A clean bill of health would require a longer running time.

pepar

08-22-05, 09:56 AM

Has anyone tried more than one external drive; i.e., fill up one external, switch to another empty(ier) external and still be able to play the recordings on either external drive, depending on which is connected at that time?
WOW! Great idea, BenDover, and well worth a try.

pepar

08-22-05, 10:03 AM

I agree that that condition of the HDD is unknown, but I was trying to give him an optimistic outlook. Actually he can just go ahead and reconnect and test it in the existing case. Even if the fan is shot running the drive for 10 minutes without the fan will not be a problem. That should be sufficient time to determine if the drive has been severely damaged. A clean bill of health would require a longer running time.
I wish we had a utility to run on our computers so that we could hook up these DVR expansion drives and check their health.

davehancock

08-22-05, 01:25 PM

The FAN still runs, it just makes the noise.

Thanks for the good news BPlayer. Can you give me any suggestions/links for an aluminum enclosure? I would think a fanless enclosure would get hotter than one with a fan. Maybe you mean ALUMINUM-FANLESS cooler than PLASTIC-FAN enclosure.

Thanks
CC

Richard (ClickCardo),

My enclosure is an Addionics aluminum-fanless one (actually it has a tiny fan at the end - but it isn't powered). I've had this set-up for half a year now and the enclosure is "just" warm to the touch. The one thing that I have done is to stand the unit on it's narrow edge - to give it maximum air exposure. I think this setup works fine due to the close spacing between the drive case and the metal enclosure, which results in decent heat transfer and dissipation. :D

PS: As you know, I have the same drive as you.

ClickCardo

08-22-05, 04:44 PM

Richard (ClickCardo),

My enclosure is an Addionics aluminum-fanless one (actually it has a tiny fan at the end - but it isn't powered). I've had this set-up for half a year now and the enclosure is "just" warm to the touch. The one thing that I have done is to stand the unit on it's narrow edge - to give it maximum air exposure. I think this setup works fine due to the close spacing between the drive case and the metal enclosure, which results in decent heat transfer and dissipation. :D

PS: As you know, I have the same drive as you.

Dave

I just went to the Addonics website and found an AAHDSA35CS-R enclosure. Do I also need the cradle (AAHDSA35BY-R. I did find my enclosure AAHDSA35(BY/CS) listed however it does not seem to describe it as fully as I remember when I bought it in early May. I bought it as a kit and also got a power supply Model # DA30C01. Can you tell me exactly what order numbers on their website I'd need? Also, what good is the fan if it's not powered?

Does your enclosure/drive stay vertical easily? Has it ever tipped over? Do you have one side supported by something?

Thanks
CC

ClickCardo

08-22-05, 04:47 PM

You can continue to record to the 8300HD with the external HDD disconnected without loosing any of the pointer to what was recorded on the external HDD.

That's really good to know. Can I delete something that I just watched on the internal drive without messing up the pointers to the external? I need to be sure on this.

Thanks

BPlayer

08-22-05, 05:00 PM

That's really good to know. Can I delete something that I just watched on the internal drive without messing up the pointers to the external? I need to be sure on this.
Yes you can. I am 100% sure about it. Just consider your 8033HD as a stand alone device with some dormant lists associated with the external HDD. Use it as if you never had an external HDD connected.

I went through months of troubles with my external HDD and did lots of experiments with the external HDD connected and then disconnected. Although the 8300HD documentation outlines a specific process for connecting or disconnecting the external HDD, there are shortcuts that do not seem to result in any problems.

davehancock

08-22-05, 05:23 PM

Dave

I just went to the Addonics website and found an AAHDSA35CS-R enclosure. Do I also need the cradle (AAHDSA35BY-R. I did find my enclosure AAHDSA35(BY/CS) listed however it does not seem to describe it as fully as I remember when I bought it in early May. I bought it as a kit and also got a power supply Model # DA30C01. Can you tell me exactly what order numbers on their website I'd need? Also, what good is the fan if it's not powered?

Does your enclosure/drive stay vertical easily? Has it ever tipped over? Do you have one side supported by something?

Thanks
CC

I have the AEEHDSA35W-R listed in this link:
http://www.addonics.com/products/external_hdd/aeehdsa35.asp
I didn't buy a cradle (your's may work) so it "stands alone". The cradle provides power. The unit has no problem standing on it's edge.

Seeing you already have the power supply and cables you probably just want the enclosure:
http://www.shopaddonics.com/Itemdesc.asp?CartId={5E56EVERESTFE8D-395F-4B7C-84B5-13678F4BFC9C}&ic=AAHDSA35CSW-R

NOTE: I did not intentionally buy a housing without an operational fan. If I put this housing in a cradle, the cradle would power the fan. I have recommended fan powered enclosures to others - but I am relatively happy with this enclosure.

I have no problems with the drive (in this housing) staying on it's side. See photo in attachment. I have since added some foam rubber under the enclosure to take the tilt out and to isolate the unit from the shelf it is on (the shelf was acting as a sounding board).

PS: Have you contacted the vendor of your enclosure - I would think that they might replace it?

ClickCardo

08-22-05, 11:58 PM

Thanks alot Dave and Bplayer for the helpfull and timely info.

CC

BenDover

08-23-05, 07:17 AM

WOW! Great idea, BenDover, and well worth a try.

I presume you were being sarcastic :D

I didn't mean to imply that I just thought of this, I just wanted to know whether anyone has done the experimentation to confirm that we can do it without losing any recordings on any of the number of drives we might connect.

I could easily see myself with 2-3 400gb external drives...yes, yes, I know that if I changed 8300 boxes I would lose all my recordings, etc...although, when I get another external, I will record only a few throw away shows and then move it to my other 8300 to see just what exactly happens...i presume it will see it as a new drive and want to format it regardless of the fact that it has already been formatted by a device belonging to the same household/subscription authorization.

What I found interesting last week was that if you order VOD, whatever you ordered will play on any box in the house (I have two 8300HD's and one 4200HD and to my delightful surprise, I could play the VOD title I ordered on any box in the house AND it knew exactly where I left off on each box!)

pepar

08-23-05, 10:17 AM

I presume you were being sarcastic :D

I didn't mean to imply that I just thought of this, I just wanted to know whether anyone has done the experimentation to confirm that we can do it without losing any recordings on any of the number of drives we might connect.

I could easily see myself with 2-3 400gb external drives...yes, yes, I know that if I changed 8300 boxes I would lose all my recordings, etc...although, when I get another external, I will record only a few throw away shows and then move it to my other 8300 to see just what exactly happens...i presume it will see it as a new drive and want to format it regardless of the fact that it has already been formatted by a device belonging to the same household/subscription authorization.

What I found interesting last week was that if you order VOD, whatever you ordered will play on any box in the house (I have two 8300HD's and one 4200HD and to my delightful surprise, I could play the VOD title I ordered on any box in the house AND it knew exactly where I left off on each box!)

No, I wasn't being sarcastic; it was truly a eureka moment. If it works, that solves the 300GB-500GB limit of today's drives. I wonder how the file system would handle the swapping of drives. If it doesn't work, that'll be the reason. I don't think we would be able to drag the external drives around the house as the encryption is unique to EACH box, but it would allow more archived movies.

The fact is that we do NOT have ownership of this content; we are "licensed" to view it only one one box. And going in we know that if we need to exchange boxes, we lose what we've archived. But still, the DVR has completely changed my viewing. And I accept - begrudguingly - the limitations.

CANNON-FODDER

08-23-05, 08:18 PM

I still think the license should be with the account and not the box. So you could replace a bad box.

v/r,
C-F

pepar

08-23-05, 10:34 PM

I still think the license should be with the account and not the box. So you could replace a bad box.

v/r,
C-F

Sounds good to me, but it's easier for them to do box-specific encryption.

Robbo

08-23-05, 11:15 PM

Is Cruz systems still the best/cheapest place to get the eSatA - SatA cable? Their website doesn't allow for on-line ordering.

I ordered the cable today from Cruz. $25 shipped for the 6 foot cable. Terry said they are not charging a handling fee this month.

CANNON-FODDER

08-23-05, 11:23 PM

Sounds good to me, but it's easier for them to do box-specific encryption.

Don't take this harshly - I'm just asking for clarification, but is that a known position, an professional judgement, or a guess/lay-man's opinion?

v/r,
C-F

vegggas

08-23-05, 11:46 PM

Each cable STB is unique and has specific data encryption/decryption ID's. This is what makes digital cable so secure and not prone to piracy. Especially compare that to Sat STB's that are decrypted by an account that can be duplicated across thousands (or more) of STB's that allow pirace to run rampant.

vegggas

CANNON-FODDER

08-24-05, 08:29 AM

Thanks,

As a check -
The head-end encrypts all subscription channels to my STB ID when I am authorized them?

I figured they have [identity challenge/response] for each STB, but I thought that the channels were all encoded with the same key [per channel/set] and the keyset was transmitted to the box after ID/Account handshakes. And in that manner, the account could set the key for the encryption of the HHD, that key doesn't have to be the same across accounts.

I kind of thought the reason to go with the box unique encryption had more to do with not having to change the head-end software, and little to do with a more hairy technical issue than the normal account/channel authentication.

I guess I had an idea that the difference between the satellite & cable in this area lay between the connected cable system with always connected interactivity and the broadcast disconnectedness of the satellite hardware.

v/r,
C-F

pepar

08-24-05, 11:18 AM

Don't take this harshly - I'm just asking for clarification, but is that a known position, an professional judgement, or a guess/lay-man's opinion?

v/r,
C-F

Pure speculation on my part, but probably educated speculation.

Bear in mind that we're dealing with an industry that had been a monopoly nationally and locally until recently. They've been insulated from competition because they were the only ones with wire to the home. They introduced new technology very slowly, preferring rather to keep milking the cash cow than to re-invest. Since DBS services came into being, and now that the telcos have broadband, they've had to wake up. They still don't deal with competition from DBS in a confident manner; witness the FUD campaign they run against satellite TV. DBS, however, doesn't respond in kind, but takes the high road and just keeps forging ahead.

The whole idea of DVRs and customers locally storing programming is a newborn for the cable industry, and the multi-room idea is not even born yet. Give them time and they will become more flexible, more user-friendly. For now, we should just be happy to be getting hi-def programming and hard drives. That there are some limitations is just part of the deal for now.

Jeff

vegggas

08-24-05, 01:04 PM

pepar/Jeff, not too sure wether you are being serious or not???
Sat takes the high road?? You don't remember the famous "Cash Pig" series of commercials? While reading this, I just saw the Dish network "cable sucks" campaign. I've seen these campaigns that take the low road from sat companies for years - no one is innocent.
Storing content locally has been a forefront of cable technology, long before sat existed. A major part of advertising was the fact that you can use your VCR to record any analog channel without the need for any other equipment. This was a major theme in the 80's when DBS Sat started on the market. With the induction of digital cable in the late 80's, all STB's have VCR programming timers included in them to facilitate that storage need. Now with DVR's, they are allowing direct digital recording, and multiroom viewing options. The multi-room DVR is available in select markets already, and many more Home Media options are still in testing and will be available soon.

C-F,
The use of rolling codes within each program stream has kept the digital cable system secure. Hackers and industry analyists have been able to decrypt a single stream for a single program, on a single STB, with the fastest processors, but no where close to real time useage or in a way that makes it worthwhile enough to view the remainder of programming. With Sat, the code is pushed and once you emulate the code, it rarely ever changes and is open to copying and widespread emulation. Worse, yet, the decryption key is stored on the Sat Card, and easily transferred, wheras cable STB's use two-way keys to request a new key from the headend whenever the old one is about to expire.

vegggas

pepar

08-24-05, 01:53 PM

pepar

08-24-05, 01:58 PM

C-F,
The use of rolling codes within each program stream has kept the digital cable system secure. Hackers and industry analyists have been able to decrypt a single stream for a single program, on a single STB, with the fastest processors, but no where close to real time useage or in a way that makes it worthwhile enough to view the remainder of programming. With Sat, the code is pushed and once you emulate the code, it rarely ever changes and is open to copying and widespread emulation. Worse, yet, the decryption key is stored on the Sat Card, and easily transferred, wheras cable STB's use two-way keys to request a new key from the headend whenever the old one is about to expire.

It is, undoubtedly, the security of the cable system that appeals to the content providers and allows them to be comfortable with HD-DVRs, multi-room systems and all of the other tech doodads which we'll be seeing in the future.

I stopped stealing premium cable content when the tin pretzel can w/coiled 300-ohm twinlead (trap) stopped working. ;)

davehancock

08-24-05, 07:36 PM

CANNON-FODDER

08-24-05, 08:32 PM

Thanks veggas & pepar, that was what I was looking for.

I guess there is probably no way to have constantly expiring codes without re-encrypting the stored information. But having a static key coming from each account does not seem less secure than the static key in each box. I guess they could hold the key only long enough to actively decode the stored file, then make the DVR handshake to get it again, but there does not seem much point over the static solution.

v/r,
C-F

pepar

08-24-05, 09:07 PM

Pepar,

Taking the high road or low road is regionally oriented. Cable (TW) here has been very much taking the high road - but they have been having a significant success with their Digital Phone offering (and significant package deals). The local phone company and the SATs have been taking the low road in a desperate attempt to compete.

I'm tempted to switch back to SAT and the local phone with DSL - but the ONLY thing holding me back is the 8300HD with external 250GB drive (what this thread is all about). ;)

So, you see a connection between the strength of one's technology offerings and the tactics one employs in marketing same? From the scenario in your market, TWC has a hot hand and is being high-minded in their marketing, while the other two slog away to maintain the status quo. Tools of the trade, I guess.

I seriously considered leaving cable and going SAT. My programming choices were pretty much a wash cost-wise from CATV to SAT, so I stayed with the devil I knew. Hi-def and HD-DVRs sealed it. At least for now.

vegggas

08-24-05, 09:09 PM

The decryption keys for stored programs are located in the ram of the STB for first use, then it handshakes with the headend for continued usage. If you try to use your DVR after it has not been connected to cable for a while, it will no longer play back. You may get about 4 hours (+/- 2 hours?) of usage from stored content before everything times out and it becomes un-useable.
I do not have an NDA with SA, so this is conjecture based on the STB field and cable security general awareness. I do not specifically know exactly how the encryption/decryption process works, based on any STB manufacturers hardware or software platform.
Had to put that in...
vegggas

pepar

08-24-05, 09:10 PM

pepar

08-24-05, 09:12 PM

CANNON-FODDER

08-25-05, 09:32 AM

I sent them an e-mail yesterday and the fellow seemed excited during the call-back, talking about eureka, simple changes, briefing packets to management, maybe a bonus.

Then this morning's call-back was slightly incoherent: management reads foam?, pepper?, sarcasm? Killed the momentum?

I honestly didn't know what to make of it...

:P

v/r,
C-F

owenrutz

08-26-05, 05:25 PM

Won't cable card II make the encryption issues more user friendly?

rbienstock

08-26-05, 09:34 PM

Has anyone been able to get a SATA drive to work on a Passport box yet?

pepar

08-27-05, 09:07 AM

Has anyone been able to get a SATA drive to work on a Passport box yet?

I don't think so. The SATA ports are not yet activated on Passport-equipped units. However, I am about to buy an inexpensive Firewire drive to try as the DIAG info says "always activate Firewire" as the Firewire status. Being supported (by the cable operator) may be one thing and activated yet another. If the Firewire drive doesn't work, I'll use it with my laptop for external storage. In fact, even if it DOES work, it'll go with the laptop as I buy TWO 500GB Firewire drives to connect to the TWO Firewire ports.

BenSanford

08-30-05, 07:18 PM

Just tonight replaced the Seagate 400gb (ST3400832AS) I originally purchased with a Maxtor Maxline III 300gb (7L300S0). So far, 100% of the performance problems and glitches I've had with controlling "live" TV (both SD and HD) as well as playing back recordings (both SD and HD) seem to have disappeared completely!...

I just today read through all of the thread (2nd time for much of it) and after looking at all the options, etc. -- put my order in for the Cruz cable (2 meter) @ roughly $25 with shipping, and from NewEgg:

EXT SATA ENCLSR E-POWER EP-301SA - Retail (Qty=1,Price=$33.85)
HDD MAXTOR|16M SATA 7200 7L300S0 % - OEM (Qty=1,Price=$157.00)

Extended Warranty Fee: $0.00
Subtotal: $190.85
TAX: $0.00
Shipping and Handling Charge**: $9.98
Total: $200.83

Total with the cable will be ~$225

I paid about $20 extra for the higher-end 300gb Maxtor drive that DSperber suggested with the 5 yr. warranty. I figured that it's worth the money if it's quieter, and the extra warranty won't hurt.
(Newegg has the other 300gb Maxtor SATA drives for about $132 or so on their Labor day special).

Hopefully I'll have everything received, installed, and working before I leave for vacation on Sept 13th.

Will post results in a week or so - Cox SARA Fairfax, VA

Robbo

08-31-05, 12:00 AM

HDugan

08-31-05, 07:22 PM

My eyes are bleed from reading today...
Please catch me up...

Where is the best place to buy the 8300HD and External SATA ?

How is the return policy?

Are they the cheapest?

Do any store-chains sell these.

pepar

08-31-05, 08:08 PM

Huh? Buy them? How much *did* you read?

HDugan

09-01-05, 10:33 AM

Huh? Buy them? How much *did* you read?

...more specificly written...buy the external drive for the 8300HD.

tony57

09-01-05, 10:53 AM

...more specificly written...buy the external drive for the 8300HD.

See: Maxtor QuickView Expander - 160GB External Drive (http://www.maxstore.com/product.asp?sku=2663283)
and: Maxtor QuickView Expander - 300GB External Drive (http://www.maxstore.com/product.asp?sku=2663284)
Froogle the part numbers to get add'l prices.

cblackstone

09-01-05, 07:04 PM

MAXTOR 300GB SATA Hard Drive from newegg.com (http://http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822144421)
Mapower MAP-H31SS-01 SATA Enclosure from newegg.com (http://http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817145164)
Sonnet Technologies SATA Cable from macmall.com (http://https://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=534359)

Everything works great. Here's the diagnostic menu info
SARA Version v1.87.16.1
HDD Info: Maxtor 6L300S0
Capacity 279 GB
Partition Info: Partition Size 259 GB, Free Space 259 GB

The Serial ATA Enclosure is really nice. Brushed aluminum, super easy install, and very well made

If there's any other info I can provide, holler.

pepar

09-02-05, 12:07 AM

...more specificly written...buy the external drive for the 8300HD.

Sorry to have snapped at you. Currently, the largest eSATA drive is 300GB. But soon there will be 500GB drives from Seagate. And there are eSATA RAID solutions that hit 1.6 terrabytes - and are absurdly priced for anyone but the most well-heeled. There are many choices and soon there will be many more, so it is not possible to point you to one drive from one vendor and say it's the best. AT least imho.

BenDover

09-02-05, 07:29 AM

CANNON-FODDER

09-02-05, 11:27 AM

He was probably speaking of the largest drive with eSATA cabled enclosure, and not the largest bare SATA drive. But, product announcements and press releases are always coming out...

v/r,
C-F

HDugan

09-02-05, 11:29 AM

Sorry to have snapped at you. Currently, the largest eSATA drive is 300GB. But soon there will be 500GB drives from Seagate. And there are eSATA RAID solutions that hit 1.6 terrabytes - and are absurdly priced for anyone but the most well-heeled. There are many choices and soon there will be many more, so it is not possible to point you to one drive from one vendor and say it's the best. AT least imho.

I'm not a techie and get a bit confused with this.

This product is easy to identify as complaint with my 8300HD Cablevision box because it's advertized as such.
Maxtor QuickView Expander - 300GB External Drive
http://www.maxstore.com/product.asp?sku=2663284

But when I got into my local PC store I tend to get lost in the selection process. There's a lot of things called ~External Hard Drives~ but the box literture is a bit convoluting to me and I don't want to buy something that ultimately won't work for my purposes. That's why I'm putting my faith in the experts here.

I'm looking for clear alternatives to the Maxtor. They might be easy for you to pick but I'm foggy on this stuff.

A list of other model#'s that would simply plug into the 8300HD and work with a simple reboot would be greatly appreciated.

davehancock

09-02-05, 11:32 AM

Sorry to have snapped at you.

It didn't appear to me that pepar snapped, or owed any sort of apology. It seems that people somehow expect to get instant, FREE, answers on the Internet, and can't take the time to sort through what is already written.

tony57

09-02-05, 11:45 AM

I'm not a techie and get a bit confused with this.
I'm looking for clear alternatives to the Maxtor. They might be easy for you to pick but I'm foggy on this stuff.
A list of other model#'s that would simply plug into the 8300HD and work with a simple reboot would be greatly appreciated.

There is no other vendor at this time other than Maxtor that provides a simple plug-n-play solution.

HDugan

09-02-05, 12:22 PM

It didn't appear to me that pepar snapped, or owed any sort of apology. It seems that people somehow expect to get instant, FREE, answers on the Internet, and can't take the time to sort through what is already written.

WOW touchy. A visitor can't ask a question...who made you king of the sand box?

I do thank Tony57 for summing up what I couldn't figure out after indeed reading 19 pages. You just saved me time, money and headaches.

On page one ~other~ external drives are introduced into the thread. Talk goes to ports, cables, etc. I just got more and more confused. ~I am not a techie~.

More and more threads at AVSForum use summations, usually by the FIRST poster. This is a useful tool, especially when the topic strays a bit. Some thread are REAL BIG...years big.

My major criteria for visiting...
Was this plug and play the only model? (ANSWERED)
What is recommened Software version or requirements on 8300HD?
Does this software version vary from Cable co to cable Co?

BenSanford

09-02-05, 12:30 PM

There is no other vendor at this time other than Maxtor that provides a simple plug-n-play solution.

The above is correct - The Maxtor unit designed specifically for the 8300 is the only really simple (one item to buy) plug-n-play solution.

However, as noted in many previous messages - the solution this thread started with is "almost" as simple. An external SATA enclosure, a SATA drive, and the proper cable from Crus or other sources, saves a few bucks, and offers more choices in hard drive size, warrantee period, etc. Plus you can always move the drive to a PC if your needs change, etc.

Several people have indicated the specific hardware items they purchased, and I would suggest buying off the net (I bought mine from newegg and got very prompt delivery). Often the people at the local computer stores are more interested in selling you what they have on hand rather than what you might really need.

If your Cable system used the "supported" software then it should be fairly simple from there. If it doesn't use the right software, then even the Maxtor box won't help.

tony57

09-02-05, 12:56 PM

On page one ~other~ external drives are introduced into the thread. Talk goes to ports, cables, etc. I just got more and more confused. ~I am not a techie~.

What is recommened Software version or requirements on 8300HD?
Does this software version vary from Cable co to cable Co?

FYI, when this thread was started, the only way to add storage was to 'build-your-own', as the Maxtor QuickView Expander was not yet available (or even known to become available).

Also, the QV expander will work with the 8300, but not for all cableco's. This is because not all cableco's software enable the SATA port (i.e., while SARA (used by cablevision) works, the PASSPORT software won't)

tony57

09-02-05, 01:04 PM

If your Cable system used the "supported" software then it should be fairly simple from there. If it doesn't use the right software, then even the Maxtor box won't help.

Yes, good point, I initially neglected to mention that the 8300 will work with the Maxtor QV ONLY if the STB's software enables the SATA port (i.e. cablevison's SARA allows an external drive, but cable co's that use PASSPORT with the 8300 will not).

BenDover

09-02-05, 01:34 PM

There is no other vendor at this time other than Maxtor that provides a simple plug-n-play solution.

I thought I saw a Seagate over at Newegg the other day...

tony57

09-02-05, 01:42 PM

I thought I saw a Seagate over at Newegg the other day...

Good. I new that they were developing something along the lines of the Maxtor QV, but I didn't know that it was out yet.

Do you have a link?

Tony

BenDover

09-02-05, 01:57 PM

Good. I new that they were developing something along the lines of the Maxtor QV, but I didn't know that it was out yet.

Do you have a link?

Tony

Oops, my bad...senior moment...or is it a blonde moment since i don't really consider myself a senior...

anyhow, what i saw was a number of buslink models offered at compusa...sorry :eek:

pepar

09-03-05, 12:33 PM

not sure why you say the largest esata drive currently available is 300gb...i have 400gb and i believe the hitachi 500gb drives are out ...

Sometimes my information is a bit out-dated and technology moves fast. 300, 300, I have three hundred, do I have 400, 400, going, going, I have 400, do I have 500 . . .

:D

pepar

09-03-05, 12:38 PM

But when I got into my local PC store I tend to get lost in the selection process. There's a lot of things called ~External Hard Drives~ but the box literture is a bit convoluting to me and I don't want to buy something that ultimately won't work for my purposes. That's why I'm putting my faith in the experts here.

This "expert" says skip the local PC store and buy online. Most online vendors have clear, concise information about each and every item they sell. Whether you like to read very little or delve in and study (what to some would be esoterica) every last detail, the info is there. My experience with B&M vendors is that they either give you no information or mis-information.

Dmsoho

09-03-05, 09:08 PM

Just put a new Seagate Barracuda 400GB/7200RPM/8MB (ST3400832A) EIDE disk (5 year warranty) [jumpered Master] inside an external Argosy HD360SU 3.5" SATA enclosure [NOTE: Had to use my 12V 4A LCD panel power brick to power the Seagate 2.8A disk as the HD360SU power supply is only rated a 1.25A]. Then connected it to my SA 8300HD using one of the SATA I to SATA II cables and followed the 'Adding a external SATA drive' pages (16-17) in the SA 8300 HD manual. YES!! I now have 353GB of new AVFS disk space on my DVR after a short format cycle!

Now for some testing: I then tuned to an HD channel to see how the drive would handle I/O (internal SA8300HD disk was 90+%?? full (13GB free in 151GB AVFS) so I knew it would only use the new external drive for timeshift and recording) and I watched the disk LED during many pause, rewind, fast forward and record button presses to make sure all the features worked without a hitch or hicup. I left the Blue access led attached in the HD360SU to get a idea how hard it was being hit and although busy there is still idle time. That said I'll continue to monitor for potential heat buildup (as the external case has no fan) and review new recordings looking for drop outs that might be related to the external disk access latency (although I'm not expecting to find it) but I'm also using a 1 meter SATA I to SATA II cable so I can move it out of harms way after verifing all SA8300HD DVR dual tuner features work OK.

Bottom line I went from having an almost full internal SA8300HD disk to now only using 24% of all my disk space in 32 saved recordings.

I'm happy! :) [Now if I can only figure out how to add an external disk to my LG 50PX4DR PDP with DVR]. :D

Galaxy Convoy

09-05-05, 01:35 PM

Hey I am new here and I have a question. I just put together an external hard drive for the explorer 8300sd and it works fine and would like to know how the hard drive is supposed to shut off at night it seems to run most of the day should I be plugging the power cable in to the back of the box or a separate power strip(currently) thanks for the help you guys.

davehancock

09-05-05, 01:44 PM

GalaxyConvoy

You should leave it powered up 24/7. The SA8300 is really always on and expects to have that external drive always ready to accept new data.

Robbo

09-05-05, 04:53 PM

I just picked up my SA8300HD yesterady and will install the 8300 and the drive this weekend.

Another success in CT (Cablevision).

Got everything hooked up (Maxtor 300GB, Epower case, Cruz cable) and it works fine. One hitch was I didn't realize at first that there was a power toggle on the back of the Epower case which obviously needs to be turned on to get the drive to work.

Also the case got quite hot when it was left in my enclosed A/V cabinet so I moved it outside the cabinet (its pretty quiet).

pepar

09-05-05, 05:57 PM

GalaxyConvoy

You should leave it powered up 24/7. The SA8300 is really always on and expects to have that external drive always ready to accept new data.

And therefore AIR-FLOW and COOLING are of the utmost importance!

BenSanford

09-06-05, 07:27 PM

I just today read through all of the thread (2nd time for much of it) and after looking at all the options, etc. -- put my order in for the Cruz cable (2 meter) @ roughly $25 with shipping, and from NewEgg:

EXT SATA ENCLSR E-POWER EP-301SA - Retail (Qty=1,Price=$33.85)
HDD MAXTOR|16M SATA 7200 7L300S0 % - OEM (Qty=1,Price=$157.00)

Extended Warranty Fee: $0.00
Subtotal: $190.85
TAX: $0.00
Shipping and Handling Charge**: $9.98
Total: $200.83

Total with the cable will be ~$225

I paid about $20 extra for the higher-end 300gb Maxtor drive that DSperber suggested with the 5 yr. warranty. I figured that it's worth the money if it's quieter, and the extra warranty won't hurt.

Hopefully I'll have everything received, installed, and working before I leave for vacation on Sept 13th.

Will post results in a week or so - Cox SARA Fairfax, VA

Everything arrived, the drive and enclosure arrived last Thursday, and the cable today. Assembly was easy except that the connector on the ESATA enclosure was a bit too close to the plastic housing, so a minute with a dremmel tool to cut away a bit of plastic was necessary. I plugged in the enclosure to AC power, and could hear the disk and fan spin up (almost inaudible). Then (with the 8300HD powered up and a picture on my screen), plugged in the cable into the back of the unit. A window popped up recognizing the HD, and asked if I wanted to format it. Answered yes <A>, and then almost immediately another window cameup with a message that if I wanted to disconnect the drive, I should power everything off first.

That was it.

I went to the recorded list and it said I was only using 30% of capacity (instead of the 88% before connecting the 300gb drive).

I never re-booted or powered off anything during this time. I'll try a recording soon, but everything seems fine.

LJG

09-07-05, 09:09 AM

I posted this @ yahoo Groups IO Digital, hoping someone here might have an answer. I have the 8300 Hd dvr with external Sata drive, I am now expperiencing a color tinting shift in all my recordings which are repeatable in the same location of the recording, it looks like a tinting problem with red and green and is real obvious when I fast forward the green FF bar turns blue at the pproblem locations, any ideas if it is a 8300 problem or my external sata drive?

Lon

bkushner

09-07-05, 06:38 PM

Another success in CT (Cablevision).

Got everything hooked up (Maxtor 300GB, Epower case, Cruz cable) and it works fine. One hitch was I didn't realize at first that there was a power toggle on the back of the Epower case which obviously needs to be turned on to get the drive to work.

Also the case got quite hot when it was left in my enclosed A/V cabinet so I moved it outside the cabinet (its pretty quiet).

I'm a little confused. The external case I want to buy says it comes with a SATA cable. Can't this be used to hook the external box to the 8300? What is all this talk of a cruz cable?

Thanks

Brian

Dmsoho

09-07-05, 06:44 PM

Just remember that SATA is not plug-n-play as USB so to be safe you always want to make sure you have power off when making/breaking the data connection or you may risk data corruption.

pepar

09-07-05, 07:28 PM

I'm a little confused. The external case I want to buy says it comes with a SATA cable. Can't this be used to hook the external box to the 8300? What is all this talk of a cruz cable?

Thanks

Brian

An SATA cable is needed to connect the drive to the external enclosure and an eSATA cable is needed to connect the enclosure to the 8300HD. I've never checked, but I think a "cruz" cable is an eSATA. Try googling "eSATA cable."

davehancock

09-07-05, 08:56 PM

An SATA cable is needed to connect the drive to the external enclosure and an eSATA cable is needed to connect the enclosure to the 8300HD. I've never checked, but I think a "cruz" cable is an eSATA. Try googling "eSATA cable."

When this thread started the "Cruz" cable was known as a SATA-II cable (meaning the 2nd generation of the standard), eventually this became know as the eSATA cable (SATA-II = eSATA). The SATA connector is physically a little different than the eSATA connector.

mrpman

09-08-05, 05:40 PM

Just read the entire thread........ HAS ANYONE TRIED THE FIREWIRE PORT!!!!!!!!

HAS ANYONE USED THE 8300 WITH A HDMI SWITCH BOX?

pepar

09-08-05, 06:21 PM

Just read the entire thread........ HAS ANYONE TRIED THE FIREWIRE PORT!!!!!!!!

I bought A Firewire drive and had intended to try just that, but everything I've read tells me the Firewire ports are for either display output or for a recording/storage device which would be subject to the broadcasters' flags restricting or preventing me from storing hi-def content. The SATA external storage option encrypts the data going to the drive and is free to record EVERYTHING. Firewire storage makes the IP holders nervous; eSATA makes 'em relax. Resistance is futile.

pepar

09-08-05, 06:25 PM

HAS ANYONE USED THE 8300 WITH A HDMI SWITCH BOX?

I'm using a HDMI-to-DVI cable (signal-wise, they're identical) to a DVI switch and it works fine. The handshake is, er . . shakey sometimes requiring me to hit the 8300HD's power button to get it to talk to the display, but otherwise, it's 100% functional.

BenDover

09-08-05, 06:30 PM

I bought A Firewire drive and had intended to try just that, but everything I've read tells me the Firewire ports are for either display output or for a recording/storage device which would be subject to the broadcasters' flags restricting or preventing me from storing hi-def content. The SATA external storage option encrypts the data going to the drive and is free to record EVERYTHING. Firewire storage makes the IP holders nervous; eSATA makes 'em relax. Resistance is futile.

AFAIK, firewire drives also permit encryption of the data, really shouldn't matter...

HD-DVD drives will output via HDMI and Firewire...

pepar

09-08-05, 06:38 PM

AFAIK, firewire drives also permit encryption of the data, really shouldn't matter...

HD-DVD drives will output via HDMI and Firewire...

Well, sure, the drives wouldn't care or even know what the data was. But, I've never read anything that suggests that the 8300HD will record to a Firewire drive, much less encrypt the data. And I've never read that any upcoming hi-def optical drives will encrypt the Firewire output for recording. It may record to that output, but will be subject to the IP holders' flags.

Why would one want to record the output of HD-DVD/BluRay?

BenDover

09-08-05, 06:51 PM

Well, sure, the drives wouldn't care or even know what the data was. But, I've never read anything that suggests that the 8300HD will record to a Firewire drive, much less encrypt the data. And I've never read that any upcoming hi-def optical drives will encrypt the Firewire output for recording. It may record to that output, but will be subject to the IP holders' flags.

Why would one want to record the output of HD-DVD/BluRay?

I thought you were going to investigate whether the 8300HD will record through the firewire port? Mine doesn't have any firewire ports else I would have already investigated...

I didn't meant to suggest recording through the firewire ports but only that one means for sending the content to the display would be via firewire...

Cain

09-10-05, 09:49 AM

Guys I'm a TWC Customer in SC.

How can I tell if my 8300 has external SATA capabilities enabled ??

Many thanks for any help here..

-- Cain

pepar

09-10-05, 10:07 AM

I thought you were going to investigate whether the 8300HD will record through the firewire port? Mine doesn't have any firewire ports else I would have already investigated...

I didn't meant to suggest recording through the firewire ports but only that one means for sending the content to the display would be via firewire...

Yes, I was - right up until the Firewire drive showed up along with a clicking sound from one of the hard drives on one of my computers. So, the Firewire drive was pressed into emergency duty as a backup for the clicking drive. When I get the computer rebuilt, I might try the Firewire drive on the 8300HD, but as everything I read - about the 8300HD - tells me the Firewire ports are for displays, and everything I read - about Firewire - tells me that it's output is regulated by the content owners' flags and would be, IMO, crippled. With this in mind, I am concerned I will somehow hose my DVR or my Firewire drive. As such, I may chicken out. <squawk, squawk>

pepar

09-10-05, 10:09 AM

Guys I'm a TWC Customer in SC.

How can I tell if my 8300 has external SATA capabilities enabled ??

Many thanks for any help here..

-- Cain

You could call your cable provider's tech department and ask, or wait for someone else on your system to pipe up with the answer on this thread.

Or buy a drive and hook it up. :D

BenDover

09-11-05, 10:03 AM

Yes, I was - right up until the Firewire drive showed up along with a clicking sound from one of the hard drives on one of my computers. So, the Firewire drive was pressed into emergency duty as a backup for the clicking drive. When I get the computer rebuilt, I might try the Firewire drive on the 8300HD, but as everything I read - about the 8300HD - tells me the Firewire ports are for displays, and everything I read - about Firewire - tells me that it's output is regulated by the content owners' flags and would be, IMO, crippled. With this in mind, I am concerned I will somehow hose my DVR or my Firewire drive. As such, I may chicken out. <squawk, squawk>

lol, understandable circumstances...must be that time of year as I have had a couple of drives head off to that big hard drive dump in the sky...

I guess if a plain old firewire hard drive would not work then you would need something along the lines of an AVHDD, like that RCA DVR10 I had for a brief while. I think RCA was still providing these with their Scenium displays.

bkushner

09-11-05, 08:44 PM

I got a drive, case and cable package from http://www.discountechnology.com/ (click on Pro Video) for about the price of a drive alone. Great deal and great place to buy.

Brian Kushner

roland6465

09-12-05, 02:45 PM

^ Thanks for the head's up, Brian. I just ordered the 250GB kit. Had to create a new account so the wife won't get the bill, but I hope it'll be worth it.

Ronin1

09-12-05, 03:20 PM

GalaxyConvoy

You should leave it powered up 24/7. The SA8300 is really always on and expects to have that external drive always ready to accept new data.

Dave,

I have been using the Addonics box with a Maxtor 300 GB drive since late July. The fan on the box started making noises recently and so I am expecting a relacement unit soon to swap the drive into.

I have an Hitachi 500 GB drive I installed in my Mac last week which got me to thinking about how 'small' the 300 GB drive seems (I do need to clear it out). I spoke with Seagate and they are not anticipating shipping their 500 GB drive until later this year so I guess I will wait for it to bring down the prices on the 500 GB units (via some competition with Hitachi).

Has anyone cloned the contents of the external drive to a larger drive to reinstall on the SA 8300? It would seem that Carbon Copy Cloner would just treat it as data and clone it over or perhaps just copy it (I do not know if there are any hidden files that a copy over might not get that CCC might).

I do not know if the fan problem I have encountered is what I should expect out of this thing every few months or not. Has anyone explored different cases to use? Maybe something a little heavier duty.

Cheers

pepar

09-12-05, 03:24 PM

Has anyone cloned the contents of the external drive to a larger drive to reinstall on the SA 8300? It would seem that Carbon Copy Cloner would just treat it as data and clone it over or perhaps just copy it (I do not know if there are any hidden files that a copy over might not get that CCC might).

This is not a "yes" or "no"- more of a fwiw - the file system is not one that is compatible with Windows or MacOS.

davehancock

09-12-05, 04:42 PM

Dave,

I have been using the Addonics box with a Maxtor 300 GB drive since late July. The fan on the box started making noises recently and so I am expecting a relacement unit soon to swap the drive into.

I have an Hitachi 500 GB drive I installed in my Mac last week which got me to thinking about how 'small' the 300 GB drive seems (I do need to clear it out). I spoke with Seagate and they are not anticipating shipping their 500 GB drive until later this year so I guess I will wait for it to bring down the prices on the 500 GB units (via some competition with Hitachi).

Has anyone cloned the contents of the external drive to a larger drive to reinstall on the SA 8300? It would seem that Carbon Copy Cloner would just treat it as data and clone it over or perhaps just copy it (I do not know if there are any hidden files that a copy over might not get that CCC might).

I do not know if the fan problem I have encountered is what I should expect out of this thing every few months or not. Has anyone explored different cases to use? Maybe something a little heavier duty.

Cheers

Sorry, I'm no help with the CCC issue. I know of one person in my area that has also had a fan go out (I think it was an Addonics box). This does not seem to be an usual problem. I have my drive in an Addonics all aluminum box with no fan. There seems to be good heat coupling between the drive and the box and the unit is only warm to the touch.

ClickCardo

09-12-05, 11:11 PM

Dave,

I have been using the Addonics box with a Maxtor 300 GB drive since late July. The fan on the box started making noises recently and so I am expecting a relacement unit soon to swap the drive into.

I do not know if the fan problem I have encountered is what I should expect out of this thing every few months or not. Has anyone explored different cases to use? Maybe something a little heavier duty.

Cheers

Dave

I bought my Addonics in May. A little over two weeks ago it too started making noises. I sent it to Addonics with signature confirmation. Good thing cuz they said they never received it till I sent them the tracking number.

Just got the cradle/fan back today and there is no longer any noise. Maybe that is because THE FAN NO LONGER WORKS! Sent an e-mail to Addonics and am awaiting their reply.

interbay

09-13-05, 09:08 PM

pepar

09-13-05, 10:20 PM

ok i went bought a 160gb sata hard drive, external enclose, a sata 2 cable, my problem is the cable wont plug into the slot. is your slot connector an L shape sideways? the cable wont fit in the DVR at all. there looks like a peice is preventing it from going in

Welcome to AVS Forum. :)

You need an eSATA connector on the end that attaches to the 8300HD, and perhaps to the connector on your enclosure as well. The SATA II cable would be from the drive to the enclosure. SATA, SATA II, eSATA, oh my.

ClickCardo

09-13-05, 10:56 PM

Dave

I bought my Addonics in May. A little over two weeks ago it too started making noises. I sent it to Addonics with signature confirmation. Good thing cuz they said they never received it till I sent them the tracking number.

Just got the cradle/fan back today and there is no longer any noise. Maybe that is because THE FAN NO LONGER WORKS! Sent an e-mail to Addonics and am awaiting their reply.

I sent Addonics a second e-mail last night regarding a wire for the AECHDSA35 fan/cradle/enclosure kit they sent back which they responded that someone will call me about.

They completely ignored my original e-mail telling them they returned a DEFECTIVE part to me. Re-forwarded the original tonight and will see if they respond tomorrow.

Addonics doesn't leave me feeling warm and fuzzy so far.

Robbo

09-14-05, 12:28 AM

ok i went bought a 160gb sata hard drive, external enclose, a sata 2 cable, my problem is the cable wont plug into the slot. is your slot connector an L shape sideways? the cable wont fit in the DVR at all. there looks like a peice is preventing it from going in

Wrong cable--- order this one: http://www.cruzsystems.com/(njci1k450x4obj2cev5mjt55)/Products/Comax/221303C.aspx

pepar

09-14-05, 09:55 PM

Wrong cable--- order this one: http://www.cruzsystems.com/(njci1k450x4obj2cev5mjt55)/Products/Comax/221303C.aspx

From whatever vendor/source, you need an eSATA connector on the end that attaches to the 8300HD. And most likely you need the same connector on the end that attaches to your external enclosure as well.

davehancock

09-15-05, 12:21 PM

From whatever vendor/source, you need an eSATA connector on the end that attaches to the 8300HD. And most likely you need the same connector on the end that attaches to your external enclosure as well.
I BEG TO DIFFER with that! You are likely to need a plain old SATA connector on the HD/enclosure end. That is what the cable from CRUZ is, SATA on one end and eSATA on the other.

lorelevitt

09-15-05, 12:25 PM

I just had Comcast come out and swap out my 8000HD for an 8300HD this morning. After they left, I unplugged the 8300HD attached my eSATA drive and then plugged it in again. The box asked me if I wanted to format the drive and I said yes. After about 1 minute, it said its ready to use.

To get this going, I purchased a Hitachi OEM Deskstar 7K500 SATA II 500 GB drive from zipzoomfly.com ($345) and I purchased an aluminum eSATA enclosure from cooldrives.com (http://www.cooldrives.com/alexsaiiesdr.html ) for $69 on sale. The enclosure comes with the right cable to hook to the 8300HD.

This should add about 60 hours of HD recording or so.

ClickCardo

09-15-05, 01:59 PM

I sent Addonics a second e-mail last night regarding a wire for the AECHDSA35 fan/cradle/enclosure kit they sent back which they responded that someone will call me about.

They completely ignored my original e-mail telling them they returned a DEFECTIVE part to me. Re-forwarded the original tonight and will see if they respond tomorrow.

Addonics doesn't leave me feeling warm and fuzzy so far.

A tech got back to me yesterday 9/14 and confirmed what I already knew. That the fan was not working. He said they'd send a new one and he'd call me back. He did not call back so last night I sent another e-mail to the tech and cc: customer service.

Today tech called and transferred me to an order guy. They will send a second new, hopefully functional, replacement with a return shipping label for postage. The debited my VISA for the one to come and will credit when get the first new replacement back.

I'm satisfied they are making good faith efforts to correct the situation. My only complaint is their product broke after 4 months and it's taking all this time/hassle to correct the problem.

pepar

09-15-05, 09:02 PM

I BEG TO DIFFER with that! You are likely to need a plain old SATA connector on the HD/enclosure end. That is what the cable from CRUZ is, SATA on one end and eSATA on the other.

Don't beg; it's beneath you. :)

You may be right, I may be wrong, or vice versa. Who knows. But at some point I'll bet that external SATA enclosures will have external SATA connectors. With regards to a "cruz cable", that is just incredibly misleading, at least it is now for people just tuning in; Cruz Systems (http://www.cruzsystems.com/(y5qhlxmywwrpgpvp1dymk245)/Products/cables_top.aspx) offers SEVENTEEN cables including some that are for power.

vegggas

09-15-05, 10:28 PM

My Expansion drive is eSATA and my cable is eSATA on both ends. It matches EXACTLY what the spec calls for.
I'm using the Maxtor Quickview Expander 300GB kit. Comes complete with everything and a heavy duty, shielded 6ft eSATA - eSATA cable and 12ft power cable. Retails at $299 at buy dot com, but there are many places to get 10% -20% off coupons and free shipping, etc. to get a lower price.
No problems yet and I've been pushing this thing hard preparing for the fall season.
YMMV
vegggas

davehancock

09-16-05, 11:25 AM

Don't beg; it's beneath you. :)

You may be right, I may be wrong, or vice versa. Who knows. But at some point I'll bet that external SATA enclosures will have external SATA connectors. With regards to a "cruz cable", that is just incredibly misleading, at least it is now for people just tuning in; Cruz Systems (http://www.cruzsystems.com/(y5qhlxmywwrpgpvp1dymk245)/Products/cables_top.aspx) offers SEVENTEEN cables including some that are for power.

Yes, CRUZ is a vendor who sales lots of cable. Further, the cables that they sell for this application are made by COMAX. But, in the context of this thread -from the VERY FIRST POST (which everyone should really read) it has been clear what the "CRUZ" cable meant.

What I am trying to point out, is that till recently all SATA drives had the original SATA (SATA-I, if you will) connector, while the SA8300 needed the eSATA connector. Now as Veggas points out, the newer drives intended for DVR expansion (Maxtor Quickview Expander) do have the eSATA connector on both ends-the scenery is changing.

As you said earlier:SATA, SATA II, eSATA, oh my. :rolleyes:

pepar

09-16-05, 04:09 PM

Yes, CRUZ is a vendor who sales lots of cable. Further, the cables that they sell for this application are made by COMAX. But, in the context of this thread -from the VERY FIRST POST (which everyone should really read) it has been clear what the "CRUZ" cable meant.

I understand your point and you're right. However, while a few *may* read the first post and a few others may even use the search function, most noobs will just jump in at the last page and ask their question. Terminology changes as quickly as technology. I use to have a media room and now I have a home theater. Same room, same purpose, but a different moniker. I think the cables should be called by their current names. And for those that follow the proper forum etiquette, the first post should be edited and be kept current.

Just my $.02.

davehancock

09-16-05, 04:51 PM

pepar,

We agree :)

Worth more than $.02!

pepar

09-16-05, 05:08 PM

pepar,

We agree :)

Worth more than $.02!

:)

Steve Kahle

09-16-05, 10:03 PM

To get this going, I purchased a Hitachi OEM Deskstar 7K500 SATA II 500 GB drive from zipzoomfly.com ($345) and I purchased an aluminum eSATA enclosure from cooldrives.com (http://www.cooldrives.com/alexsaiiesdr.html ) for $69 on sale. The enclosure comes with the right cable to hook to the 8300HD.

lorelevitt,

I checked out your link to the eSATA cooldrive and, I have to say, that this enclosure looks very cool! I'm thinking about getting it. Can you give us a report on how this is working out for you, the quality and cooling ability, etc.? Does the included cable work OK?

Thanks for any input you can give us.

Steve K.

Steve Kahle

09-16-05, 10:09 PM

P.S., lorelevitt, does the cooldrive have an annoying bright blue LED as some of the others do?

Steve K.

Daphoid

09-18-05, 03:55 PM

That above linked enclosure is lovely! Simple, silver (matches my other stuff) and no hassle connectivity!

Looks like I'll buy that, a big hard drive, and be happy... now I just need to save the money :)

- D

pepar

09-18-05, 06:41 PM

Is there anybody here besides me who thinks an external hard drive that runs 24/7 needs a cooling fan? (He77, any drive that runs 24/7?) This CoolGear aluminum case looks cool, but will the drive RUN cool? Without a fan, I'm skeptical.

pepar

09-18-05, 06:58 PM

Steve Kahle

09-18-05, 07:03 PM

And I'm wondering, too. Does anyone out there have any experience with this Cooldrive enclosure or any other aluminum enclosures that work well without cooling fans? If these aluminum cases work well without cooling fans, this would be preferable, because the bearings in cooling fans will eventually go out, some sooner than others, then what will you do? Finding a replacement could be tricky, especially if the case is out of warranty. The aluminum case could act like a giant heatsink, making a cooling fan unnecessary.

Anyone have any input? Lorelevitt, if you see this, please give us your feedback.

pepar

09-18-05, 07:12 PM

The aluminum case could act like a giant heatsink, making a cooling fan unnecessary.

In which case <nyuk, nyuk) airflow over the enclosure is important. Gotta either blow air over the drive and out or sink heat from the drive and dissipate it from there. My bet is that all the enclosures we're seeing so far - with the possible exception of the MaxView Expander - are intended for home computer usage. (Read this as NOT 24/7.)

davehancock

09-18-05, 07:19 PM

pepar,

I've been running a Maxtor 250GB SATA drive in an aluminum ADDONICS case, without the fan being powered 24/7 for 6 months now. The thermal coupling between the drive and the case is pretty good and the case is just warm to the touch (around 85 degrees). I've had no problems. But, to be honest, if I had to do it over again, I would probably order a different case (with a fan).

I should point out that the drive is in open air and is standing vertically - to give maximum exposure to the air. Also, our house has central air and room temp rarely gets above 76 degrees.

RE: 2.5TB. GREAT QUESTION. (I assume your question is will 2.5TB work - not do these port multipliers work?) The largest that I've seen reported here is 400GB. And I've never seen anything higher reported as not working. I recall seeing some announcement quite some time ago about someone offering a terrabyte drive to work with the SA8300 - but never seen any reports of either success or failure.

pepar

09-18-05, 07:50 PM

pepar,

I've been running a Maxtor 250GB SATA drive in an aluminum ADDONICS case, without the fan being powered 24/7 for 6 months now. The thermal coupling between the drive and the case is pretty good and the case is just warm to the touch (around 85 degrees). I've had no problems. But, to be honest, if I had to do it over again, I would probably order a different case (with a fan).

I should point out that the drive is in open air and is standing vertically - to give maximum exposure to the air. Also, our house has central air and room temp rarely gets above 76 degrees.

Indeed, six months is a blip compared to the possible years that we could have the 8300HD's. In fact, a "long term" test (a la Motor Trend and it's ilk) may be necessary. To be safe and not try my luck, I will only use a case with a fan. A big, reliable, low RPM fan.

RE: 2.5TB. GREAT QUESTION. (I assume your question is will 2.5TB work - not do these port multipliers work?) The largest that I've seen reported here is 400GB. And I've never seen anything higher reported as not working. I recall seeing some announcement quite some time ago about someone offering a terrabyte drive to work with the SA8300 - but never seen any reports of either success or failure.

Yes, PM's do work, but I'm getting the idea that the host adapter needs to be "PM-aware."

Steve Kahle

09-18-05, 08:03 PM

I have a question regarding the references being made about the necessity that these external SATA hard drives connected to the SA8300 have to be powered on 24/7. When I read the SA8300 user manual a few months ago I remember reading that the external SATA hard drives should be plugged into the switchable socket on the back of the unit so that the hard drive powers up when the SA8300 is turned on and powers off when the SA8300 is turned off, thus eliminating the potential need that the hard drive has to be powered on 24/7. Does this setup does not work satisfactorily?

roland6465

09-18-05, 09:24 PM

According to this (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf) online guide, it has to be an unswitched outlet.

Steve Kahle

09-18-05, 11:08 PM

Thanks for the clarification, roland6465, it looks like my memory did not serve me well. Must be gettin' old.

In the meantime, I hope someone can give us some input on the Cooldrive enclosure and its cooling abilities. I'm ready and rarin' to go! Earth calling lorelevitt, are you out there?

Steve K.

pepar

09-19-05, 10:15 AM

This Silverstone FP53 (http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-fp53.htm) is intended to mount inside a computer case, but it is stylish - and sturdy - enough to be used as an external drive case. While not identically styled like the 8300HD, its design does not "fight" it either. Not only does it meets one of my deal-breaker bullet points - it has a cooling fan - it has vibration absorbers and is designed for quiet operation. Alas, though, being an "internal" drive cooler, it has no power or eSATA connector. I will continue to research this item to see how difficult it would be to adapt it to our specific purpose - an eSATA hard drive enclosure.

davehancock

09-19-05, 04:17 PM

RE: Need to keep external drive powered 24/7. One could connect both the 8300 and the external drive to a single switched outlet and power them both up and down together. HOWEVER there are some downsides to doing this:
1) You can't record anything while the boxes are powered down.
2) When you do power up, the SA8300 will go through it's BOOT routine (meaning, it will be 5 minutes before you can use it).
3) Once the boot is complete, you will need to clear the message that the 8300 has detected the external drive.
All-in-all, too much of a pain. But you could do this.

By the way, early in this thread it was suggested that one might be able to build a "library" of external drives with different contents on each. I can imagine that this would not work (the directory of recorded programs resides on the 8300 and that would be confused with different external drives) - but has anyone actually tried it?

assJack1

09-19-05, 04:33 PM

Does anybody know if a port multiplier like this one (http://www.cooldrives.com/cosapomubrso.html) wll work? If so, 2.5 terabyes is doable.

And here's another (http://www.barefeats.com/hard52.html) from LaCie.

I have emailed SA to ask if the host adapter in the 8300HD is "port multiplier aware."

Hmmm... I guess the 8300HD would need to send, in the stream, which port (e.g. drive) it needs to recieve data from. Can it do it? This is a very good question, and may open the door to massive amounts of storage. Is it part of the SATA spec? If so, we may be lucky.

I await your answer from SA on this.

pepar

09-19-05, 04:36 PM

pepar

09-19-05, 05:02 PM

Hmmm... I guess the 8300HD would need to send, in the stream, which port (e.g. drive) it needs to recieve data from. Can it do it? This is a very good question, and may open the door to massive amounts of storage. Is it part of the SATA spec? If so, we may be lucky.

I await your answer from SA on this.

I'm doubtful. Port multipliers still have the OS seeing multiple volumes and creating a software RAID, if desired. The host adapter in the 8300HD will not do that. It needs to see just one volume. So far, only the $3200/1.5TB Silicon Image product does that with multiple drives.

Dead end, I'm afraid. In fact, I've stepped up my search for the perfect single drive eSATA enclosure.

roland6465

09-19-05, 05:55 PM

SUCCESS in Winston-Salem, NC!!!!

I got my 250GB kit from http://www.discountechnology.com/ today and got it up & running in about half an hour. Only trip up was that I had to disconnect the power from the 8300 one extra time to get it to recognize the new drive.

Went from 51% full to 17%. Now I can really time shift me some HD!

Thanks so much to the members who made it so easy to find and hookup this great add on!

cdp1276

09-20-05, 10:39 AM

vegggas

09-20-05, 10:52 AM

I would follow the same basic steps as installation to get the drive back in sync.
Turn OFF the DVR, then unplug it. Remove power from the Drive and wait a moment for it to spin down. Re-apply power to the drive and let it spin up. Re-apply power to the DVR and watch the screen and it should sync up to the drive.

I would not select the option to reformat (to save your shows), if asked.

vegggas

cdp1276

09-20-05, 11:01 AM

I would not select the option to reformat (to save your shows), if asked.

Thanks I will try that later when I get home but when I first connected it I thought I recalled it did an auto-reformat. Are you sure I will have an option to bypass that?

vegggas

09-20-05, 11:14 AM

If a new drive is found, the screen will ask if you if you want to reformat the connected drive. You have to press the "A" button to reformat. Not sure if there is a timeout after 5 minutes, where it will automatically reformat if no button is pressed, but if the TV and STB is on, you should see any messages displayed from the STB (not sure if you see messags using HDMI out).

vegggas

ANDY.A

09-20-05, 12:31 PM

J08M300 QUICKVIEW EXPANDER 300GB 7200RPM SATA 150 16MB
I received the unit on Wednesday September 14 20051.
I connected it to my SA83000 HD PVR as per instructions and it was recognized and functioning with no apparent problem (the cable that comes with is an eSATA cable with the identical connector at both ends). it is set up on its edge using the stand provided.

Now for the concern.

I recorded a number of shows (Head Cases,HD The OC HD The Grid SD CSIHD). On playback I experienced some intermittent "audio and video skipping and freezing lasting less than a second at each occurence. This occurred on all of the shows with the worst being the OC about 10 instances Head Cases about 6 instances The Grid about three instances. All of the shows were recorded on the external drive as per the explanation that it has more space available. I played back the shows a couple of times and the skipping occurred at the same part of the show every time. I played Prison Break which I had recorded on Monday so It resides on the DVR internal drive and it had no instances of skipping or freezing. SARA firmware is 1.87.16.a11.

Thursday September 15
re- recorded OC on time shift while watching it live. Live was Ok Data loss on replay.
I did go into diagnostic mode yesterday and FDC signal strength is all white ( -7db) so within parameters.
Friday September 16
I played with this problem a bit more morning. I recorded a new HD show and watched with no problem. When I played back I got a brief audio/video skip. But when I rewound and replayed over the spot the skip was gone or so brief as to not be noticeable. I experienced this on two different programs one newly recorded and one from Wednesday night (Head Cases). I spoke with Maxtor tech support and they offered to exchange the drive and cable
. We rewatched (for the third time) Head Cases which was recorded on Wed. and this time the audio/video skips occurred at different places in the program than before. And there was no problem in most of the spots where the problems occurred on initial and second replay. And by rewinding over the point of problem the recording became smooth again in most instances.
We watched Head Cases until about 9:15 with the last 10 min of the show being problem free.
Friday September 16 p.m
I was recording Threshold CBS HD and Alien VS Predator TMN 301 SD. Both programs started at 9:P.M. I started watching Threshold at about 9:30 p.m. after rewinding it to the beginning. I was getting frequent picture and audio breakup (it looked like the old days of the Macroblocking/pixellation problem in some instances in others it was just an audio drop or a frame skip or a quick freeze) and the trick of rewinding over the point of data loss did not correct the problem. In effect I was recording 2 shows while watching a third with a significant increase in the problem. Could this be a buffer overload issue or compression issue which relates to the SA83000 HD PVR combined with the external drive? I watched the Recording of Threshold again on Saturday with no other activity going on and found that the brief data drop/audio video freezing occurred but not as frequently.
Perhaps some of you more technically oriented participants could comment?

Monday September 19.

Received my exchange J08M300 QUICKVIEW EXPANDER 300GB 7200RPM SATA 150 16MB and cable. Connected it and started recording. Same problem with data drops as reported before. Spoke to Scientific Atlanta Tech support around the issues of larger drive size 300GB VS 160GB faster drove speed and larger cache. I also exchanged my SA8300HD PVR just in case with no improvement showing. The SA tech suggested that they my have to change the firmware on the box to accommodate the larger unit. Any comments or suggestions re the size of the drive the cache or the drive speed 7200rpm Vs 5400rpm on the 160GB Quickview Expander?
Firmware version is 1.87.16.a11.
Sorry for the long explanation but after talking to both Scientific Atlanta Support and Maxtor Support without much success I am hoping for some suggestions
My provider Rogers in Ontario does not support external drive connection even though the current firmware allows it to work. A number of people in Ontario have built their own external drive, enclosure and SATA cable combination and it works fine.

Jim Boden

09-20-05, 02:05 PM

ANDY.A:

Welcome to the forum. Please add your location to your sig. People can help better when they know where you are.

I'm in Toronto and assume you are too. I don't have an external drive, but can say my 8300 works perfectly OK. It's interesting that you recorded something while watching live, which was OK, but the play back showed the problem. As you probably know, the DVR always plays back from the hard drive, which is how features like pause etc. work for live TV. It does sound like your second drive is suspect, although I don’t know why it would be. Have you tried the replacement drive yet?

Please keep us posted.

pepar

09-20-05, 02:32 PM

I have the Maxter QuickView Expander eSata external drive connected to my 8300HD and all has been working great. However I had a power surge today and lost power causing the 8300HD box to reboot. When it came back up I now have a yellow light on the external drive in addition to the typical green one. All my shows appeared in my list of the 8300HD but it says 1% usage when I have 10 HD shows and last night it said 10% so something is incorrect. I don't want to lose any of my shows and wonder if someone else has seen this and what would you recommend my correct sequence of next steps should be in order to resolve whatever this yellow light issue is trying to tell me?

Perhaps this is "close the barn door after the horse runs away" advice, but it is important. Like any electronic device, the 8300HD and expansion drive should be - AT MINIMUM - on a quality surge suppressor. The better way to go is to have them connected to an uninterruptable power supply. In many cases of lost power, the cable signal continues. Irregardless, if the power is never removed from the box and drive, it will never have to reboot.

We do not have "ownership" of content recorded. It is our responsibility to do what we can to preserve it with the understanding that if the box goes south and needs to be replaced, we LOSE the content. If the hard drive takes a header, we LOSE the content. Perhaps there is one, but I know of no way to backup or image the expansion drive.

Some cable providers choose not to support expansion drives, and those who do activate the port will not support the external drives themselves.

It's a jungle out there and we're on our own.

cdp1276

09-20-05, 04:10 PM

Perhaps this is "close the barn door after the horse runs away" advice, but it is important. Like any electronic device, the 8300HD and expansion drive should be - AT MINIMUM - on a quality surge suppressor.

I do have it on a good surge protector and the house never lost power during the thunderstorm. I refuse to add an APC for a DVR with a hard drive.

pepar

09-20-05, 04:58 PM

I do have it on a good surge protector and the house never lost power during the thunderstorm. I refuse to add an APC for a DVR with a hard drive.

From your previous post: "However I had a power surge today and lost power causing the 8300HD box to reboot."

Anyway, whether you did or didn't, a UPS would eliminate the problem. I've got mine on a UPS and I'd bet I'm not the only one. They can be had for very little money on ebay. I picked up six or seven 1000's last year for about $65 each. A few needed new batteries, but they're ~$50 each if you know where to look. Cosmetically, they look like sh*t, but I keep them hidden.

I'm not saying that you SHOULD have a UPS, only pointing out the advantage.

MikeAlletto

09-20-05, 05:17 PM

Just ordered the hitachi 500GB drive and the cooldrives enclosure. Should have it all friday. I'll post my thoughts when i get it going.

assJack1

09-20-05, 09:17 PM

Just ordered the hitachi 500GB drive and the cooldrives enclosure. Should have it all friday. I'll post my thoughts when i get it going.

I am just about to order the same combo as you. Probably this weekend when I get some time. I plan on measuring the temperture and if it's still too hot, I may get this

http://www.alltronics.com/12vdc_fans.htm (Part #04F008)

It's 12V and only 10mm thick and about 50mm square. I figure a few drill holes for air flow and a few more for mounting it in the back of the case may do the trick.

pepar

09-20-05, 09:44 PM

I am just about to order the same combo as you. Probably this weekend when I get some time. I plan on measuring the temperture and if it's still too hot, I may get this

http://www.alltronics.com/12vdc_fans.htm (Part #04F008)

It's 12V and only 10mm thick and about 50mm square. I figure a few drill holes for air flow and a few more for mounting it in the back of the case may do the trick.

Just a thought for you: A big fan running at lower RPM will move the same air as a smaller fan running faster, but make less noise. More blades is better than less. You might also look at the quality of the bearings as this will be running 24/7, won't it?

assJack1

09-21-05, 06:52 AM

pepar:

You have very good points. I would be trying to get *some* airflow over the drive, but I am not intending to heavily cool. A search for a real good active cooler turned up nothing As for the fan: brushless, bearing, etc. I believe brushless ar quieter, but I do not know the life expectancy as compared to a bearing.

As for airflow, RPM, and size - I agree with you. I am targeting a fan that is thin so that it can go literally be placed next to the spindle motor. This gives direct air over the drive. I figure 10mm thickness would fit nice, between the case and drive, and still have some room for circulation. The specs listed for the fan on that page seem just fine for the application.

I believe the 500 gig's drive max operating temp is 50/55 C, so the first thing to do is get some readings on how well the case disipates first. Everyone's HT environment is different, so I may be in luck. If not, well then drilling holes and popping in a fan is prolly the next step.

pepar

09-21-05, 08:17 AM

lorelevitt

09-21-05, 10:15 AM

Hi,

Sorry I haven't seen your questions earlier. For some reason I have not been notified that there are updates to this thread so I didn't check it back until I got a notification this morning.

First-- the coodrive enclosure feels fairly warm to touch but the case is aluminum and I believe its acting as an effective heat sink drawing the heat away from the drive and dissipating it. However someone would have to attach a temp sensor to the drive itself and measure it-- I don't have a way to do that. If you look at the specs for the drive:

http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/CE3F5756C827F35A86256F4F006B8AD4/$file/7K500v1.0.pdf

the operating ambiant temperature max is 55 deg. C. Perhaps someone could measure the case temp.

I also tend to figure how often I'm going to upgrade. I like to keep my hard drives no more than 3-4 years. Technology advances enough that by then there will be multi-terabyte units. So the question is that if it runs hotter will the life be reduced probably but should I still have 3-4 years of use-- most likely.

Second-- the lights glow a brighter green. If this is a problem, I think its pretty easy to cut the wire inside to them and they just wont glow. Its basically a fancy on/off light as they don't blink or anything like that.

Lore

MikeAlletto

09-21-05, 10:33 AM

From a time warner rep about adding on external HD's (at least in Austin, but I'm sure the code is the same around the country):

With the SATA connection, it is active but not supported by us right now.
There is a key GUI piece missing to make it user friendly. If the drive
loses power, the main drive in the box considers that hard drive dead and
reformats and places all of the file allocation on the main drive. On the
occasions where it does not.one issue is that when they are both running, it
does not write to one and then another. It spans both drives. So if either
fail, all recordings are then dead. We are awaiting more from SA on this.

davehancock

09-21-05, 11:27 AM

From a time warner rep about adding on external HD's (at least in Austin, but I'm sure the code is the same around the country):

It's nice to hear that some TW people actually know something about the external drive. This rep may be right about the interface not being "user friendly", but in my experience, he got some of the specifics WRONG:

1) If the drive loses power, the main drive in the box considers that hard drive dead and reformats and places all of the file allocation on the main drive. It does allocate new files to the main drive (nothing wrong with that) but does no reformat anything (either main drive or the, now dead, external drive).

2) one issue is that when they are both running, it does not write to one and then another. It spans both drives. It NEVER spans a recording to both drives. It does run into a problem when the drive it is writing to max's out - so you can have problems above 95% (not a good idea anyway).

3) (Really 2b) So if either fail, all recordings are then dead. No, if external drive fails, the recordings on it are dead. The statement is true for the main drive - which contains the directory.

If the external hard drive is powered down for a while and then powered back up - everything will be OK (of course, after rebooting the 8300).

Yeh, the messages one can get are a little alarming (not consumer friendly) and it would be nice if you didn't have to follow the specific boot-up sequence. So it is not exactly user friendly. But, as most of us know, it is a great boon to our HD viewing as it is. :D

MikeAlletto

09-21-05, 11:51 AM

It NEVER spans a recording to both drives. It does run into a problem when the drive it is writing to max's out - so you can have problems above 95% (not a good idea anyway).

How do you know that it never spans? There is no way to view the directory structure and unless you are relying on the little light on your external drive blinking (which isn't a very good indicator) you have no way to know that it doesn't span.

ANDY.A

09-21-05, 12:13 PM

re: J08M300 QUICKVIEW EXPANDER 300GB 7200RPM SATA 150 16MB
I know my above post is rather long:) but I wanted to provide as much detail as possible. Does anyone have a comment or suggestion re; the possible problem?
Thanks Very Much
Andy.A

davehancock

09-21-05, 12:15 PM

Mike,

First, the SA documentation explains how it allocates. Further, I have had some issues with an intermittant power connection to my external hard drive, and the behavior I observed confirms that. (After all, I said "in my experience"). If anyone KNOWS different, we all would like to hear it (that's what these forums are for).

Here is a link to the SA documentation:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf
Pg 17 of the document (page 23 of the PDF) explains the process and clearly states:
A recording is not split between an internal and external hard drive. :cool:

MikeAlletto

09-21-05, 12:30 PM

Cool, thanks for the link Dave!

Maybe thats the problem. Its not supposed to span but it actually does. I get my external drive friday so I'm eager to get it going.

lorelevitt

09-21-05, 01:51 PM

I would say its highly unlikely that it would span which would require a RAID 0 or other spanning raid level. Spanning would then only utilize the maximum size of the SMALLEST drive-- which would be the internal one. They would have been idiots to implement RAID 0 on the eSATA port. Other raid levels require more than 2 drives to handle parity and mirroring.

One other thing-- they would not have gone an invented their own new type of spanning beyond the existing RAID levels. So I think it was just bad information that someone is passing on from the cable company.

pepar

09-21-05, 02:03 PM

Come on, folks, the 8300HD's firmware knows there are two different drives; it enumerates them in DIAG with individual details for each, including usage statistics. This is a very basic piece of gear and it is HIGHLY unlikely that that it doesn't just use them both like our computers use two separate drives, and allocate drive space according to its own algorithms.

MikeAlletto

09-21-05, 03:05 PM

There is spanning, as in writing to both drives at the same time which yeah, I agree it probably doesn't do. But what is to stop it from writing to one drive, then when it hits a certain limit it closes the file and starts a new file on a different drive. It then links the 2 recordings as one recording in the catalog so when you play it plays from one file then the other. If the 2nd drive goes down the entire recording would be bad because it would still think it was there. The only reason I could see to do this was to level out the disk usage across both drives. I don't think this is a completely bad theory and it is probably what is meant by spanning in this case.

Doesn't mean its the best solution but this is SA we are talking about.

pepar

09-21-05, 03:10 PM

I heard that whichever drive has the most space gets the new file. And if neither drive has enough space for the ENTIRE file, the file does not get written. Don't remember if it moves from main to a just-added-and-empty external drive to balance the load. :confused:

pepar

09-21-05, 03:54 PM

I found this case - enter CA-SNST2316SATA in "search" (can't get the link to work directly) (http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/) on an Aussie site and this one (http://www.usb-ware.com/slim-line-sata-hard-drive-enclosure.htm) from a U.S. site that meet my criteria -

1. Active cooling
2. Aluminum construction
3. Stylish

. . . to be continued . . .

davehancock

09-21-05, 04:19 PM

pepar

09-21-05, 04:36 PM

pepar,

The fan in that 2nd link certainly looks like it violated your earlier rule of a big, slow fan. The fan in the case on the Aussie site certainly looks more like it. In fact, that unit looks identical to one listed early in this thread (it does pay to read way back ;) ).

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=17-155-903&depa=0#DetailSpecs

I've put together a unit for a customer of mine in Buffalo last spring that used this case. It is definately one that I would recommend (and the one I would get for myself if I felt my drive was running warm).

Yes, it looks identical, but "seems" to have a different mfg. I found one on eBay ($50.32 delivered) and bought it. Prices around the U.S. ranged from $39 to $59. One vendor had it for $15, but had no stock. And didn't have a clue as to when they might.

I'll post a good pic or two and maybe you can tell me if it is internally identical.

pepar

09-21-05, 04:43 PM

pepar,

The fan in that 2nd link certainly looks like it violated your earlier rule of a big, slow fan. The fan in the case on the Aussie site certainly looks more like it. In fact, that unit looks identical to one listed early in this thread (it does pay to read way back ;) ).

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=17-155-903&depa=0#DetailSpecs

I've put together a unit for a customer of mine in Buffalo last spring that used this case. It is definately one that I would recommend (and the one I would get for myself if I felt my drive was running warm).

A big 10-4 on the small, angry fan, davehancock! That feature along with the huge and very well integrated fan on the other were the main deciding factors.

assJack1

09-21-05, 05:01 PM

ClickCardo

09-21-05, 11:02 PM

pepar,

The fan in that 2nd link certainly looks like it violated your earlier rule of a big, slow fan. The fan in the case on the Aussie site certainly looks more like it. In fact, that unit looks identical to one listed early in this thread (it does pay to read way back ;) ).

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=17-155-903&depa=0#DetailSpecs

I've put together a unit for a customer of mine in Buffalo last spring that used this case. It is definately one that I would recommend (and the one I would get for myself if I felt my drive was running warm).

Dave

Did that link require additional purchase of power supply? As you know I already have the eSATA. Have a power supply from my Addonics who are shipping me a 2nd replacement for the fan/cradle, but do not have my hopes up for success.

pepar

09-21-05, 11:54 PM

Dave

Did that link require additional purchase of power supply? As you know I already have the eSATA. Have a power supply from my Addonics who are shipping me a 2nd replacement for the fan/cradle, but do not have my hopes up for success.

The PS is included. Click on the small picture that looks like an octopus - it's the cabling and power supply.

rx-8

09-22-05, 02:17 PM

Wow...I finally got to the end of the thread (23 pages). I just wanted to drop a quick line to thank all those who have contributed...thanks for sharing your experiences.

joelhe

09-22-05, 03:14 PM

I'm about to take the plunge and wanted to check with the pros on this list to make sure I've got it right before I submit my orders. I'm looking at a drive and enclosure from NewEgg.

Enclosure: HighPoint e.SATA Value kit v3 Aluminum 3.5" e.SATA External Enclosure - Retail $63 includes cable. Item #: N82E16817124007

Drive: Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6B300S0 300GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM * Model #: 6B300S0 $146.

Will these two items do the job or am I missing something? Are there better choices? Is the SATA port enabled for Time-Warner, Rochester, NY.

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.

Joel Elias, Pittsford, NY

pepar

09-22-05, 03:33 PM

Wow...I finally got to the end of the thread (23 pages). I just wanted to drop a quick line to thank all those who have contributed...thanks for sharing your experiences.

gosh, that must have been mind-numbing. ;)

pepar

09-22-05, 03:42 PM

joelhe

09-22-05, 03:57 PM

This one is much less $$$ and has a cooling fan.

Thanks pepar.

I chose the box in my note because it was the only one I found on NewEgg that had e.SATA in the description. (Is this terminology - e.SATA, SATA, SATA II - clearly explained anywhere?)

Agree on the need for a fan.

Do you know if the cable that comes with the box you suggest is all I need or do I need to get the CRUZ SATA - SATA II cable too.

Thanks - Joel

rx-8

09-22-05, 04:05 PM

gosh, that must have been mind-numbing. ;)

What I found interesting is the amount of knowledge gained over the few days which took six months to develop...it's like going to school in fast-forward mode. :eek:

Galaxy Convoy

09-22-05, 06:07 PM

how do I remove the HD from the cable box I can not out how to do it

assJack1

09-22-05, 06:24 PM

davehancock

09-22-05, 06:59 PM

assJack1

09-22-05, 07:21 PM

Joel,

I looked at the info on the HighPoint site, it really doesn't give too much info. I think that you would be better off getting the enclosure from NewEgg and the SATA to eSATA (aka SATA-II) cable from CRUZ.

Why woulndn't it work? It seems like it has all the capabilities required: eSata out, SATA drive capability, power supply, and it looks like it comes with a eSATA cable.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817124007&CMP=OTC-Sm4rterDe4ls&ATT=External+Enclosure#DetailSpecs

ClickCardo

09-22-05, 09:44 PM

This one is much less $$$ and has a cooling fan. (http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=17-155-903&depa=0#DetailSpecs)

The cooling fan on my Addonics and the TWO replacements they sent quit working. I wonder about the long term reliability of any fan setup.

davehancock

09-22-05, 09:58 PM

Why woulndn't it work? It seems like it has all the capabilities required: eSata out, SATA drive capability, power supply, and it looks like it comes with a eSATA cable.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817124007&CMP=OTC-Sm4rterDe4ls&ATT=External+Enclosure#DetailSpecs
I looked at the Highpoint site and it didn't have much information (in particular, it did not state that the cable was ordinary SATA on one end and eSATA on the other). Also, the E-POWER EP-301SA kit from New Egg is $34 and several of us know it works well. That kit plus the needed cable from Cruz is probably cheaper than the HighPoint kit.

Another concern, it is not clear that the HighPoint kit has a fan. The case looks like that on the E-POWER, but I don't see from the photos the slots for the fan.

Those are the reasons I said (and still say): I think that you would be better off getting the enclosure from NewEgg and the SATA to eSATA (aka SATA-II) cable from CRUZ.

Steve Kahle

09-22-05, 10:29 PM

Lorelevitt wrote regarding the Cooldrive enclosure:

First-- the coodrive enclosure feels fairly warm to touch but the case is aluminum and I believe its acting as an effective heat sink drawing the heat away from the drive and dissipating it.

Second-- the lights glow a brighter green. If this is a problem, I think its pretty easy to cut the wire inside to them and they just wont glow. Its basically a fancy on/off light as they don't blink or anything like that.

Hi, Lore

Thanks for your response! How's it goin' with that Cooldrive so far. I believe that this case does not have a cooling fan but just uses the aluminimum structure of the case for heat dissipation. Is this correct and do you think it will be effective for 24/7 operation?

Also, just one last question regarding the green LED's. According to the picture it appears as if there are a series of LED's across the front of the case. Do all of the light up with the green light? And are they bright enough to play shadow puppets in a darkened room? I know that some of the bright blue LED's on some new equipment these days are that bright. I would consider this a major drawback.

Other than these concerns I think this case is the coolest one I've seen so far and it has an eSATA connector. The E-Power case at Newegg described elsewhere in this forum is butt-ugly (at least from the photos on Newegg). I wouldn't let it anywhere near my entertainment system! Also, any case that has a fan will have a fan failure (bearings go out) sooner or later (probably sooner). And any proprietary fan is going to be hard to replace. One will probably have to replace the whole case instead. I'm in the computer service business and I can't tell you how many computer power supplies we've had to replace simply because the fan goes out!

Steve K.

vegggas

09-23-05, 03:15 AM

I'm starting to have some concerns with my external drive throughput. I do a lot of dual HD recording, while playing back an HD stream. This is a lot of throughput for the external drive system, and I have noted a few problems.
First, I have only seen problems while I am actually using the DVR while recording. Unattended recordings have not had a problem yet.

Problem 1) Watching a currently recording program delayed, while recording a second program. This scenario seems to add glitches to the recording process to either one or both of the recordings. Also, as you FF and get to the point where you catch up to the recording, and it switches buffers, I have seen the recording FAIL at that point, or immediately after that. The buffer is still there and you can watch live, but if you try to rewind, it will go back to place where it glitched out.
Once finished, the recording is gone (shown as red missing on the bar) where it glitched.

Problem 2) Recording 2 streams and watching a third. Pausing, frame advance, and instant replay, seem to introduce glitches, skips, or errors on the recordings. I had seen this to a small extent with just the internal drive, but it seems amplified and more common when using the external drive.

I think these two problems are a result of memory issues within the STB when trying to allocate those resources between the two drives. Currently, I'm recording both Leno and Letterman, and earlier tonight, all of primetime was spent recording two HD streams while playing back a third. When the recodings are finally finished, I am going to shut down both units, then do a hard reboot on the DVR to clear the memory and reload the OS applications. These issues started small, but are becoming more apparant now that the new season has started and I'm frantically trying to record virtually everything in HD during primetime.
My biggest failure so far was tonight's CSI. I watched the first 5 minutes live, then went and watched another pre-recorded show a little later. After it was finished recording, I noticed that it said in the LIST that there were only 18 minutes recorded. This is about the time I was FF through comercials on my playback show.

As always, YMMV. I will know if the hard reboot works tomorrow as I watch and try to crash the STB more.

vegggas

pepar

09-23-05, 08:08 AM

The cooling fan on my Addonics and the TWO replacements they sent quit working. I wonder about the long term reliability of any fan setup.

That's a very valid concern. If the enclosure depends on active cooling to remove heat from the drive/enclosure and the fan fails, you're probably screwed. I know mine would be because it could be DAYS before I'd discover it. That's why, when I get an actively cooled anything that's going to run a lot, I upgrade the fan with one of the truly high-end replacements available. The next level of geekiness is to have temperature sensors and do realtime temp monitoring with an alarm.

ANDY.A

09-23-05, 08:16 AM

pepar

09-23-05, 08:36 AM

Thanks for your response! How's it goin' with that Cooldrive so far. I believe that this case does not have a cooling fan but just uses the aluminimum structure of the case for heat dissipation. Is this correct and do you think it will be effective for 24/7 operation?

Also, just one last question regarding the green LED's. According to the picture it appears as if there are a series of LED's across the front of the case. Do all of the light up with the green light? And are they bright enough to play shadow puppets in a darkened room? I know that some of the bright blue LED's on some new equipment these days are that bright. I would consider this a major drawback.

Other than these concerns I think this case is the coolest one I've seen so far and it has an eSATA connector. The E-Power case at Newegg described elsewhere in this forum is butt-ugly (at least from the photos on Newegg). I wouldn't let it anywhere near my entertainment system! Also, any case that has a fan will have a fan failure (bearings go out) sooner or later (probably sooner). And any proprietary fan is going to be hard to replace. One will probably have to replace the whole case instead. I'm in the computer service business and I can't tell you how many computer power supplies we've had to replace simply because the fan goes out!

OK, I see we're dividing into fan and no fan camps here.

"Do you think it will be effective for 24/7 operation?"

Well, anyone who merely thinks a drive will be kept comfortable without doing any testing is just asking for trouble. And anyone who follows the advice of someone who merely thinks it is suitable for our purpose is flying blind.

The fan that I see on the E-Power enclosure is an 80mm and that is a standard size. Irregardless, for the price, one could buy several of them and use the others for spare parts. This "External DVR Storage" thing is a completely new animal and to select a drive enclosure with an eye solely on appearance and a desire to avoid noise is wrong-headed. These drives will run 24/7 and contain our precious - in most cases - hi-def movies that may or may not be repeated (for re-capture) anytiime soon. With a 500GB drive, the new pinnacle, that's a LOT of movies. Most of the enclosures available now pre-date 24/7 external DVR storage and will, I suspect, prove inadequate. What we should be looking to is the world of RAID enclosures as these babies ARE built for 24/7 operation. If we're spending $300-$500 for a drive and storing precious and, possibly, irreplaceable content, how does it make sense to use an enclosure because it is quiet, looks good and someone thinks it will keep the drive cool 24/7/365?

I think that somewhere not to far down the road I'll be reading posts about failed hard drives.

BPlayer

09-23-05, 08:53 AM

I'm starting to have some concerns with my external drive throughput. I do a lot of dual HD recording, while playing back an HD stream. This is a lot of throughput for the external drive system, and I have noted a few problems.There is definitely a performance issue with the PVR when connected to an external drive that does not exist when it is operating in standalone mode. I suspect that it is a hard related problem rather than something that will be resolved by SARA software change/upgrade. The symptoms suggest a channel bottleneck, memory or processor speed problem associated with the operation of the external drive. Why some drives work better than other is also a mystery.

The confusing part is that the problems not happen all the time (Andy.A and I have had multiple drives that were unusable). Unlike a PC where a write error, read error, or bottleneck problem is generally unnoticed, the PVR problems are quite obvious as the failure to deliver data at the right time results in audio or video problem.

It would be really great if we could get an SA tech specialist involved to participate in the discussion or provide some feedback. At this point I have resigned myself to live with occasional glitches on my purchased 8300. Hopefully the next version of this box will have these problems resolved.

pepar

09-23-05, 09:59 AM

It would be really great if we could get an SA tech specialist involved to participate in the discussion or provide some feedback. At this point I have resigned myself to live with occasional glitches on my purchased 8300. Hopefully the next version of this box will have these problems resolved.
As it seems higly unlikely that any cable provider will even support our external drives, much less do performance tests/comparisons, we are on our own. Those kinds of tests would be invaluable to us in our drive selection process and would save a lot of aggravation. Without it, we are effectively all beta testers. My cable provider did tell me that they would provide a compatibility list, but that's passive at best. The cable providers pretty much seem much resigned to activating the ports, with all the apathy that accompanies "resigned." As they are getting not a penny more revenue, I wonder why they even bother? It is certainly not in their immediate best interests. Or at least that's the impression that they're giving. (Guess SAT needs to be biting their collective a55 instead of just nipping at their heels before they'll see the light on just why it IS in their best interests, short-, medium- and long-tern.)

It is, however, in SA's best interests and perhaps we could get them to turn the compatibility list - after all, it must be originating with them! - into a performance list as well. They could list the compatible drives in order of performance. Or perhaps they'd make a few available to some of the review sites for third party testing.

SA - Are you listening?

vegggas

09-23-05, 10:17 AM

Andy, Like you, I am using the recommended Maxtor QuickView Expander 300GB drive. I did read your post a while back, but from downloaded offline mode.

My results of shutting down and doing a hard reboot... I turned off the DVR, then unplugged it from power, then removed power from the Maxtor. After waiting a few minutes, I powered up the Maxtor, then held down the power button on the DVR, and reapplied power to it. The DVR hard booted and redownloaded applications. It then came up and said "Hey, the External HDD you have connected will work with your DVR! Press EXIT to clear this message."

I had noticed the drive was getting louder before the reset, and after, it was MUCH quieter. Initial quick testing, so far is yielding much smoother results and no introduced artifacts. I will have to spend some time watching a few programs to look closely, but I'm sure a few were introduced into the recordings somewhere, and those caused on the spur of the moment memory issues are currently clear.

I had also found a few "orphaned" 1MIN recordings that were NOT showing up before I had reset the DVR. I was now able to actively select these recordings, and although I could not play them back, I was able to delete them and regain the full space they were using.
In my case, it appears there were issues that were cleared up by a reset. Possible things that caused the problems seemed to be watching a delayed recording and catching up to live, and deleting programs while they are recording, or while recording two other streams. I will do some more testing, but with the fall season in full swing, I may be more inclined to save the integrity of the data to catch up on programming.
As always, YMMV
vegggas

Jim Boden

09-23-05, 10:55 AM

assJack1

09-23-05, 02:03 PM

Someone reported doing just that, I believe on this forum. It worked just fine. The thread basically tuned into abusing the guy for messing with cable company property (which in his case it was).

assJack1

09-23-05, 02:09 PM

pepar:

One method I plan on testing is placing metal slab between the HDD and my aluminum case. This may help suck the heat off faster. As long as the surrounding environment doesnt get too hot it may work.

I'll report back when I've tested some ideas. This of course wont happen until I receive all types of equipment from UPS. Comming from Texas, that damn storm Rita may have added a few days to overall delivery.

Jim Boden

09-23-05, 02:19 PM

assJack1:

Thanks for the info.

I remember the thread, but wasn't sure if the guy actually did it or not. I'll search for it.

davehancock

09-23-05, 02:28 PM

The real problem with the fan/no fan/which fan discussion (as pepar has pointed out) is that it will take too long (year or so) to come to any real conclusion. The bottom line is the cooler the drive, the better and until someone hooks up thermocouples to a drive in various fan/housing configurations it is all conjecture. In the meantime, many of us are making our own choices, based on aesthetics, noise level, budget, etc.

I have a tightly coupled aluminum enclosure - but I do strongly recommend the (some call it ugly) E-Power enclosure. It has a relatively large fan, which turns slower and runs quieter (and likely lasts longer) than some other enclosures.

pepar

09-23-05, 03:22 PM

pepar

09-23-05, 03:32 PM

RaveD

09-23-05, 06:10 PM

Enclosure: HighPoint e.SATA Value kit v3 Aluminum 3.5" e.SATA External Enclosure - Retail $63 includes cable. Item #: N82E16817124007

I researched this as well, and I'm pretty sure this will NOT work.

Note that "e.SATA" is not the same as "eSATA". It is apparently a proprietary FireWire connector rewired to support SATA.

Thus, the connector on the back of the HighPoint box is FireWire. It is designed only to be plugged into the HighPoint extender that goes to the back of a PC. It does not come with a cable that can plug into the SA8300HD's "eSATA" connector.

vegggas

09-23-05, 06:35 PM

OT for this thread, but does anyone know if the internal hard drive can be replaced with a larger capacity one? I own my 8300 and would be interested if anyone has looked at this and, if so, what the implications are.

Andy:

I'm going to PM you for info on your external drive.

Jim,
AFAIK, He DID replace the drive with the exact same drive with no problems. I think he then replaced it with a larger drive and it still only formatted and used 160GB of space based on the fixed firmware of the STB. So, in his case, there was no benefit from upgrading the internal drive.

I can't speak for Andy, but he did say he was using the Maxtor Quickview Expander Kit. His first drive was the 300GB model, then he replaced it with the 160GB model because he believed there were too many problems with the larger unit. I have the 300GB model, which I purchased as a complete, simple kit of a cable and external drive (aluminum with fan). I purchased mine from buy dot com for about 279 (US) to my door, but it appears cheaper now with coupons. 300GB PS QVX E-SATA/16MB QV EXPANDER EXT HDD-UP TO 185 HOURS - J08M300
When searching for the 300GB, use the part number J08M300. The 160 is listed elsewhere on this thread. These are the units specified by SA and cable co's and they are true eSATA drives and cables with no adapters.
That said, many people are using homebuilt kits with few or no problems to increase their storage even further and shave a few dollars on the parts (around 50) by using differnt vendors.
So far, it appears my biggest problems stem from memory management issues with the hardware and software in the STB.

vegggas

pepar

09-23-05, 06:36 PM

I researched this as well, and I'm pretty sure this will NOT work.

Note that "e.SATA" is not the same as "eSATA". It is apparently a proprietary FireWire connector rewired to support SATA.

Thus, the connector on the back of the HighPoint box is FireWire. It is designed only to be plugged into the HighPoint extender that goes to the back of a PC. It does not come with a cable that can plug into the SA8300HD's "eSATA" connector.

Good catch! That's very observant, RaveD.

mrpman

09-23-05, 07:42 PM

OK,,,,I finally was able to get an 8300...For those of you in south Jersey you can go to the Comcast customer service center in Woodcrest (cherry hill) and they have some 8300s there. For a few weeks Comcast was saying they were only in the warehouses and not in the distribution centers...Well you can get them now.

Here is the real question, Which hard drive/case do you recommend????

Should we start a list of cases/combos that work and some plus/minuses?

Steve Kahle

09-23-05, 10:31 PM

davehancock wrote:

I have a tightly coupled aluminum enclosure - but I do strongly recommend the (some call it ugly) E-Power enclosure. It has a relatively large fan, which turns slower and runs quieter (and likely lasts longer) than some other enclosures.

Hi, Dave

Is the E-Power enclosure ugly in person or is it just in the photos? It looks like it's kinda brown or bronze or a dirty gold. What's the true color? I'm wondering why the manufacurer chose an off-color such as this since most setups these days are silver or black. Do you know if it comes in any other colors such as silver or black?

Thanks for any info you can give,

Steve K.

ANDY.A

09-23-05, 10:54 PM

VEGGAS
Actually I tried two Maxtor QVX 300GB kits and also changed my 8300. All to no benefit regarding the dropouts. The 160GB although it is not perfectly void of dropouts exhibits far fewer problems. When the only activity is viewing a pre-recorded program it exibited no problems at all. When I viewed a recorded program while recording two other shows I saw a couple of dropouts. The most number of dropouts ( 5 fleeting and minor) were noticed when I rewound and watched show that was being recorded while also recording another.

As to the comments about SA. I have spoken to them a number of times (1 800 722 2009). They maintain that the Maxtor 300GB kits should work without problems providing that the service provider has used a firmware version which enables the use of an external SATA drive. They no of no reason for the dropouts but are willing to try resolve the issue only if a service provider is interested in working with them. Good Luck with that :)
ANDY.A

pepar

09-23-05, 11:34 PM

davehancock

09-24-05, 01:37 PM

davehancock wrote:

Hi, Dave

Is the E-Power enclosure ugly in person or is it just in the photos? It looks like it's kinda brown or bronze or a dirty gold. What's the true color? I'm wondering why the manufacurer chose an off-color such as this since most setups these days are silver or black. Do you know if it comes in any other colors such as silver or black?

Thanks for any info you can give,

Steve K.

I really can't comment too much on that - "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" you know. I'd say that the actual color is close to the photos - probably a bronze with brown end caps. I personally wouldn't mind the color, but others may.

I don't know about other colors. These enclosures are designed as a piece of computer equipment - not as AV equipment.

ANDY.A

09-24-05, 02:06 PM

Diagnostic Screens And 160 GB External Drive
As I indicated in the other thread the
MAXTOR QUICKVIEW EXPANDER 160GB 5400RPM SERIAL SATA 150 8MB HARD DRIVE seems to having fewer and less sever dropouts than the 300GB version. However when I enter the SA8300HD PVR diagnostic screens and compare internal and external drives I see some puzzling discrepencies.

Screen 32/34 HDD INFO
DEVICE
1 MAXTOR 4R160L0 SIZE 160GB AVAILABLE CAPACITY 152GB REMOVABLE NO
2 MAXTOR 4R160L0 SIZE 160GB AVAILABLE CAPACITY 152GB REMOVABLE YES
(Screen 32 shows identical info for both drives -- so far so good)

SCREEN 33/34 Device ID 1

PARTITION SIZE ITFS 1GB AVFS 151GB RESERVED 0KB
FREE SPACE ITFS 979MB AVFS 108GB RESERVED 0KB

SCREEN 34/34 Device ID 2

PARTITION SIZE ITFS 1GB AVFS 133GB RESERVED 1GB
FREE SPACE ITFS 981MB AVFS 98GB RESERVED 0KB

If I am interpreting the info correctly the data would suggest that both external and internal drives are recognized as the same type of drive with the same total size.
But the AVFS partition size is smaller on the external drive. Can anyone explain or account for this? Does this mean that there is less space available recording? What type of file system is ITFS and AVFS ?
Thanks
Andy.A
Markham Ontario

ANDY.A

09-25-05, 03:00 PM

After additional investigation in the diagnostic screens I have found the following.

1. On page 32 (HDD INFO) the internal 160GB drive indicates capacity in the AVFS column of 152GB = to 95% of the total drive size. On the same page the external 160GB drive indicates exactly the same in the AVFS column 152GB = to 95% of the total drive size. When I connect the Maxtor 300GB Extender( in place of the 160GB and reboot the PVR) the Capacity on the AVFS column indicates 279 GB = to 93% of the total drive size.

Now for the discrepency on page 33 and 34

2. On page 33 Partition INFO Device ID 1 (Internal drive) indicates an AVFS partiton size of 151 GB = to 94% of the total drive size.

3. On page 34 Partition Info Device ID 2 (EXternal drive) indicates an AVFS partition size for the 160GB external of 133 GB = to 83% of the total drive size.
The same screen when I replace the 160 GB with the larger external and reboot the 8300HD PVR the AVFS partition size for the 300GB external is 259 GB = to 86% of the total drive size.

Although the PVR does recognize the total size of the external drives correctly it shows a relatively much smaller AVFS partition size (which is the partition to which the programs are recorded) for the external drives.

The Question is will this affect the total amount of programming that can be recorded to the external drive?

Just to confuse matters even more when I press list and then "B" to see total space used I get the following results. Prior to connecting the external 160GB 16% used. After connecting the external 160GB 8% used. (Just the way it should be.)
After recording anumber of programs untill the total space used = 16% again I checked the diagnostic screens 33 and 34 again. In the AVFS column on both screens the free space remaining on each drive = 111 GB. So despite a partition size difference as indicated above (152 internal 133 external) it would appear that the recording is being allocated as if each drive had the same amount of space available.
I hope that this is all clear and that someone might have a suggestion as to what is going on.
AndyA

assJack1

09-25-05, 07:55 PM

ANDY.A:

Did you reformat the internal drive when changing the external drive form 160 to 300? There may be a file structure pointer issue. Perhaps the steps should be:

1) Format internal drive
2) Add external 160GB (format here too)
3) Observe stats
4) Reformat internal
5) Add 300GB
6) Grab statistics

vegggas

09-25-05, 09:10 PM

Andy,
I brought this up a few months ago too. After the 160GB drive size, the usable partition decreases by about 20GB as you go to larger drives. I posted some of the drive sizes and availalble partition info, but people were just too excited about getting more space and were concerened with xx% percent available rather than seeing how much usable space was increased. I theorized that there was a practical limit, due to limited returns on partition sizes, but no one else seemed to either grasp the idea, or kept blindly trying to add larger drives.
A given advertised drive will yield a much smaller partition.
That smaller partition, will yield a smaller USABLE (ie recording space available) drive size.
I had also theorized, based of various drives used, that if a 1 Terabyte drive were available right now, there would only be about 700GB available for recording and the rest would be wasted on overhead and AVFS buildup. That is not a good return on investment for the price vs performance gains of smaller drives.

vegggas

ANDY.A

09-25-05, 11:02 PM

It could actually be worse.
Re-edited info
So far, the yields of larger extended drives are:
160GB Drive = 152GB total space = 1GB OS partition + 1GB reserved partiton + 150GB AV partiton = 150GB usable AV space for recordings
300GB Drive = 279GB total space + 1GB OS partition + 1GB reserved partiton + 259GB usable AV space for recordings (discrepancy of 20GB)
400GB Drive = 353GB AV partition (thanks Sean) (unverified usable space[reported as 292GB free, but that could be from already saved recordings]?)

In the diagnostic pages, there are details about how much space is available on the partition, and how much is usable space (279GB formatted vs 259GB usable on 300GB drive). I'm looking for screenshots or specific data from the large drive users to determine actual space available.

That is not fully determined yet. I want more data from a larger group because the loss of storage may be greater than that.

vegggas

veggas
Your partiton data for the 300GB QVX matches with mine.
But take another look at my partition data for the 160GB QVX drive. And that is after 2 reboots and disconnecting the drive from the 8300HD PVR twice.
Did you actually connect a 160GB? It may not be an issue of how the 8300 deals with larger drives but of how it deals with external drives.
The funny thing is that although the diagnostics reports a smaller partition for the external than what it is reporting for the internal 160GB (133 external on page 34vs 151 for the internal on pg 33) the total usage when you go to list and press B halves ie from 16% to 8% when I connect the external 160 GB
I am going to contact SA and Maxtor on Monday to see how they explain this.
Andy.A

pepar

09-25-05, 11:04 PM

vegggas

09-26-05, 12:25 AM

ANDY.A

09-26-05, 09:23 AM

Andy,
The 160GB data from that post was from the internal drive. There is a loss when attaching an external drive. The percent used is an adjusted, approximate estimate. Interestingly enough, I had recorded a marathon on an analog channel where there were about 20 hour long episodes on the same channel. Analog encoding is a CBR data rate that is always the same regardless of content. While deleting each episode, the percent used would fluctuate a few percentage points back and forth.

vegggas
Have you seen the Data Sheet on the QVX from the Maxtor Support site? Note the alleged capacity on the chart at the bottom. 160/5.6=29hrs of HDTV. That certainly does not take into account the reduction in partition size to 133GB/5.6=23.75hrs HDTV
http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor/en_us/documentation/data_sheets/quickviewXpander_data_sheet.pdf

pepar

09-26-05, 10:18 AM

Have you seen the Data Sheet on the QVX from the Maxtor Support site? Note the alleged capacity on the chart at the bottom. 160/5.6=29hrs of HDTV. That certainly does not take into account the reduction in partition size to 133GB/5.6=23.75hrs HDTV
http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor/en_us/documentation/data_sheets/quickviewXpander_data_sheet.pdf

Derived, no doubt, with the same thinking that brought us televisions measured diagonally.

Is somebody asking SA just what's up with that unusable space?

ANDY.A

09-26-05, 12:18 PM

Derived, no doubt, with the same thinking that brought us televisions measured diagonally.

Is somebody asking SA just what's up with that unusable space?
I just spoke to Maxtor support and they are investigating. I am not hopeful for an answer because they claim that this is an issue with the SA8300HD PVR.
I called SA and the tech support person I spoke to said that they don't support this connecting of external drives to the unit. In fact he stated emphatically that no cable providers in the U.S. have enabled the eSATA port on the PVR.
If enough people call with this issue maybe we might get them to pay attention.

1 800 722 2009
SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA
AndyA

pepar

09-26-05, 12:30 PM

I just spoke to Maxtor support and they are investigating. I am not hopeful for an answer because they claim that this is an issue with the SA8300HD PVR.
I called SA and the tech support person I spoke to said that they don't support this connecting of external drives to the unit. In fact he stated emphatically that no cable providers in the U.S. have enabled the eSATA port on the PVR.
If enough people call with this issue maybe we might get them to pay attention.

1 800 722 2009
SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA
AndyA

This is an outrage! Kafka, Machiavelli and Yossarian must all be grinning from ear to ear. I hope you pointed out to the pointy-headed Scientific Atlantan that, indeed, there are activated SATA ports out here. What's more, they are all on boxes with Scientific Atlanta Resident Application software.

smook

09-26-05, 12:30 PM

I actually believe it's NOT the 8300HD, but the Maxtor 300gb Quickview

Here's my story:

Purchased the first 300gb Quickview. Setup, plugged it in. Worked fine. Then I turned off the power to my 8300HD and Quikview to move my setup around in the house. After plugging everything back together. The 8300HD complained that the Quickview drive had a bad connection and refused to format/or read it any longer. So, I returned the Quickview#1 unit. Got unit #2 now. Plugged it in and everything worked great, until I unplugged the power to the QUICKVIEW and moved it to a new location. Same error as QUickview#1. SO this time, I figured it was the 8300HD. Went to Rogers in Toronto and picked-up a new 8300HD#2. Plugged it in and re-attached the Quickview#2. No success.

What's happening to the QUICKVIEW after it get's the power turned off?

Word of caution to everyone, do NOT turn your power off. Sounds crazy to me. NOW I'm faced with returning the QUICKVIEW#2. Do I want to get another one?

-Bill. :mad:

vegggas

09-26-05, 12:31 PM

I called SA and the tech support person I spoke to said that they don't support this connecting of external drives to the unit. In fact he stated emphatically that no cable providers in the U.S. have enabled the eSATA port on the PVR.
AndyA
They are basically correct - NO CABLE PROVIDERS IN THE U.S. SUPPORT THE EXTERNAL DRIVE. The control was built into the OS, but nobody has actually enabled the full suite of software for the eSATA connection. What we are doing is completely unsupported by all parties involved and is "At Your Own Risk". With that being known, there is no guarantee of functionality between devices or intent of use of other devices. SA has put out specifications as to the type of connection, and communication protocols, but I do not think an SDK was deployed for development outside of SA.

vegggas

pepar

09-26-05, 12:41 PM

pepar

09-26-05, 12:46 PM

They are basically correct - NO CABLE PROVIDERS IN THE U.S. SUPPORT THE EXTERNAL DRIVE. The control was built into the OS, but nobody has actually enabled the full suite of software for the eSATA connection. What we are doing is completely unsupported by all parties involved and is "At Your Own Risk". With that being known, there is no guarantee of functionality between devices or intent of use of other devices. SA has put out specifications as to the type of connection, and communication protocols, but I do not think an SDK was deployed for development outside of SA.

vegggas

Ahhh, caca de toro! SA put the eSATA port there, so surely THEY must support it. And their SARA software - some versions at least - have activated it, so their fingerprints are all over it. The cable providers that turn it on MUST support the eSATA port. I've got no issue that they do not support the DRIVES, but there must be a compatibility list. They cannot be allowed to keep passing the buck.

ANDY.A

09-26-05, 02:42 PM

smook

09-26-05, 02:53 PM

ANDY.A

09-26-05, 03:04 PM

Sounds like eSata is NOT true HOTSWAP.

What I did, Power off 8300HD. Unplug power from 8300HD. Removed eSata cable of Maxtor from 8300HD. THen powered off Maxtor.

So, how do I bring back the Maxtor to life? Do the low-level format? Or is the drive now DEAD?
-Bill. :confused:
I suggest that you follow the instructions provide with the drive. Follow the steps as you did the first time connecting it . But wait for about 5 min after plugging in the 8300HD for it to complete the Boot cycle. also be aware that it will not need to reformat the drive but you should get a screen saying that the drive has been recognized.

vegggas

09-26-05, 04:40 PM

Ahhh, caca de toro! SA put the eSATA port there, so surely THEY must support it. And their SARA software - some versions at least - have activated it, so their fingerprints are all over it. The cable providers that turn it on MUST support the eSATA port. I've got no issue that they do not support the DRIVES, but there must be a compatibility list. They cannot be allowed to keep passing the buck.
NO, They do NOT support it yet and it has not been officially released as a product enhancement yet. The physical port is activated in firmware, just as a SATA port on a motherboard is physically enabled, but they are not supporting any software for usage. It is for future enhancement, just like the USB port was supposed to be, but no cable co's support it. The official released product will have a GUI that customers can see and use to sort, archive and use other features of the external connection.
Just because the STB can make a great doorstop or boat anchor, doesn't meant SA supports that function of it.

smook,
You can't pull the SATA cable out of a powered device (either end). You must power down the STB, then the Maxtor, then remove the cable. The Maxtor documentation doesn't say anything about being hot swappable.

vegggas

davehancock

09-26-05, 07:07 PM

NO, They do NOT support it yet and it has not been officially released as a product enhancement yet. The physical port is activated in firmware, just as a SATA port on a motherboard is physically enabled, but they are not supporting any software for usage. It is for future enhancement, just like the USB port was supposed to be, but no cable co's support it. The official released product will have a GUI that customers can see and use to sort, archive and use other features of the external connection.
Just because the STB can make a great doorstop or boat anchor, doesn't meant SA supports that function of it.

Vegggas, I know that you have a good deal of insight into cable companies so I am a bit puzzled by your response. I'd appreciate clarification:
They do NOT support it yet and it has not been officially released as a product enhancement yet. How does this square with the official SA documentation on-line? From that, it certainly appears that it has been "officially released".
The official released product will have a GUI that customers can see and use to sort, archive and use other features of the external connection There is a GUI that customers can see and use - but not sort. It does archive (to VCR/DVD) like the internal drive. SA has kept the interface simple - by integrating the external drive as much as possible. Perhaps you have some insight into future plans - but, to me, it appears that this (external drive) is a fully functioning "feature".

I've always understood that SA does not support their products directly - that they depend on the cable companies to do that. While I am surprised by Andy A's being able to talk to them I don't understand why pepar seems so outraged (perhaps he just likes to flame SA).

pepar

09-26-05, 07:30 PM

pepar

09-26-05, 07:34 PM

While I am surprised by Andy A's being able to talk to them I don't understand why pepar seems so outraged (perhaps he just likes to flame SA).

Check my screen ID's sub-title. :)

I am outraged that a company can include a feature on a product and then somehow give us a head fake on support.

smook

09-26-05, 08:06 PM

pepar

09-26-05, 09:56 PM

Andy,

The Quickview is longer seen by the HD8300. I'm going out to get a pci card (esata) and try to low-level format the drive. (nursing it back to health) BUT the question is why do I have to do this?
Thanks.
Bill. :o

That's a very good question. We are all wandering around in the dark on this issue.

You might also try exposing it to a powerful magnetic field like the ones generated by the cranes at the junk yards that pick up cars. (OK, I'm just kidding on this one.)

smook

09-26-05, 10:07 PM

You might also try exposing it to a powerful magnetic field like the ones generated by the cranes at the junk yards that pick up cars. (OK, I'm just kidding on this one.)

Good one! But I might have to try that. I just priced a pci eSata card. OUch!
About $300us for the TEMPO. Might be easlier to just exchange the QV.

Why are things so hard? I was once told, "If it was so easy, everyone would be doing it!". Well, isn't that the idea of consumerism? Going out now to get a couple of large magnets for $1.50. (O, just kidding!! HAR HAR HAR)

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/

I just became a eExplorer Club member... o-yes. Now it allows me to send tech questions to Scientific Atlanta. Much joy!

I enjoy the thread's title "8300HD and External SATA -It works!!" Should be amended, DO NOT TURN POWER OFF, OR ELSE!!

-Bill :eek:

pepar

09-26-05, 10:47 PM

Good one! But I might have to try that. I just priced a pci eSata card. OUch!
About $300us for the TEMPO. Might be easlier to just exchange the QV.

Does your motherboard not have SATA ports on it?

smook

09-26-05, 10:57 PM

Does your motherboard not have SATA ports on it?

Yes but it's the SATA port NOT the eSATA (Sata II). I don't think anyone here has eSata ports on their PC yet.

BTW this is my second experience with the QV300. After powering off the first QV300, I lost it forever too.

BTW How is everyone archiving their shows? Are you hooking up a DVD recorder and using the COPY function of the 8300HD? (Yes I know, we lose HD and can only output via RCA video to the DVD recorder). ANYONE have a better idea?
I need to archive some of my recordings. What's everyone doing about this issue?

-Bill. :rolleyes:

I noticed HDMI output from the 8300HD, but I can't find a DVD recorder with HDMI input.

Aratak

09-26-05, 11:55 PM

Hi everyone. I didn't read EVERY message in this thread but I read a lot of them but didn't find my answer. Apologies in advance if I missed it.

I have a Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD from Time Warner Cable in Kansas City. It has USB, Firewire and SATA connectors on it.

I want to archive the shows on the DVR to my PC. I don't care how I do it, I have a DVD Burner, external SATA drive (on my pc), etc. Basically I want to pull the shows off the DRV and store them on my pc in a format that is playable by the PC (avi, or something similar).

I read the scientific atlanta specs on their site, they say they do not support this because of copyright issues, but I'm certain I understand that - you can record anything to vcr tape, I'm not certain how digital copies are different.

Anyways, if someone could point me to a guide on how this may be accomplished, whether it be by burning a dvd or copying the files directly somehow, please let me know. Thank you!

Aratak

09-27-05, 12:00 AM

Oh, and assuming I cannot read the data files themselves (as they are stored by the DVR and may be encrypted somehow) with my pc, then does anyone have suggestions on making live recordings from the DVR playback to a PC via any type of video connector? I'm using a ATI Radeon X800 series video card and it has a DVI connector on it as well as an s-video connector.

vegggas

09-27-05, 01:34 AM

SA's support is through their cable co's distribution. No U.S. cable company supports external drive storage through the eSATA connection with the current software. Although I haven't seen it yet, I'm under the impression that support will come in the form of a new GUI and external management with the release of the media center DVR series. Then it will only have compatibility with the "supported" drives as listed from drive manufacturers.

Pepar,
I am outraged that a company can include a feature on a product and then somehow give us a head fake on support. Show me where your cable company said that it supported this feature, and announced that you could go out and buy drives and they would offer support on your private equipment. I've had USB ports (yes they are active for peripheral devices such as keyboards and IR extenders, etc) on Digital STB's since the late 90's and have yet to have any support ever announced or given.

Aratak, (and Smook)
Check out the HD recorders forum. There is no way to archive digital signals from the DVR, other than through compliant devices (D-VHS) connected to the firewire port. You are free to record any down graded analog signals you want with the archive to VCR feature.

Smook,
I think you electrically "popped" your drives SATA controller when you yanked the cable out while it was still powered up. Although the DVR is powered down, there is still an electrical ground (via the coax) through the cable. Yanking the cable out while still powered up could have shorted lines to ground and even without a ground, th elines could have shorted out to the chassis. End result - You MUST power down both devices before removing the eSATA cable.

vegggas

smook

09-27-05, 07:17 AM

Smook,
I think you electrically "popped" your drives SATA controller when you yanked the cable out while it was still powered up. Although the DVR is powered down, there is still an electrical ground (via the coax) through the cable. Yanking the cable out while still powered up could have shorted lines to ground and even without a ground, th elines could have shorted out to the chassis. End result - You MUST power down both devices before removing the eSATA cable.

vegggas

I believe you are correct. I must have done this two times with two different drives. I will proceed to exchange the QV300 one more time for good luck and try once again.

Thank you for your help. CAUTION to everyone else who is using an external drive to their 8300HD.
Cheers!
;)

pepar

09-27-05, 10:18 AM

I believe you are correct. I must have done this two times with two different drives. I will proceed to exchange the QV300 one more time for good luck and try once again.

Thank you for your help. CAUTION to everyone else who is using an external drive to their 8300HD.
Cheers!
;)

"Learn from the mistakes of others as you'll never get a chance to make them all yourself."

pepar

09-27-05, 10:27 AM

Pepar,
Show me where your cable company said that it supported this feature, and announced that you could go out and buy drives and they would offer support on your private equipment. I've had USB ports (yes they are active for peripheral devices such as keyboards and IR extenders, etc) on Digital STB's since the late 90's and have yet to have any support ever announced or given.

Show me where I said that. And the "company" to which I was referring was SA. "They" put the port there . . . oh, man, you're making me repeat myself . . .

Every feature on my new car is "supported" by the mfg. Ditto every feature on my espresso machine, can opener, camera, vacuum cleaner, etc. Why should the 8300HD's SATA port be any different? If it's there and functional, it should be "supported." I have no issue at all that no one will support the actual external drive, but the port itself . . . .

MikeAlletto

09-27-05, 11:24 AM

Every feature on my new car is "supported" by the mfg. Ditto every feature on my espresso machine, can opener, camera, vacuum cleaner, etc. Why should the 8300HD's SATA port be any different? If it's there and functional, it should be "supported." I have no issue at all that no one will support the actual external drive, but the port itself . . .

Unless you bought your dvr box, you don't own it. You are renting it. Therefore nothing is officially supported until you get notice from your cable company. If you bought the box and the box came with a manual that talked about adding external drives they yes, you'd have a point. But only folks I know who own their 8300HD boxes live up in Canada. Since its not officially supported the cable company can turn it off whenever they want to. Technically its not supports to be there, but it is. Kind of like a "we'll turn it on, but don't ask us for help with it because its not ready yet."

I got my 500GB drive and the cooldrive case setup on friday. So far no problems at all. It recognized it right away and formatted it quickly. My usage went from 88% used to 19% used. No problems with playback yet. The case doesn't get horribly hot either. I have it sitting on the very top shelf with open air all around it.

ANDY.A

09-27-05, 11:43 AM

Unless you bought your dvr box, you don't own it. You are renting it. Therefore nothing is officially supported until you get notice from your cable company. If you bought the box and the box came with a manual that talked about adding external drives they yes, you'd have a point. But only folks I know who own their 8300HD boxes live up in Canada. Since its not officially supported the cable company can turn it off whenever they want to. Technically its not supports to be there, but it is. Kind of like a "we'll turn it on, but don't ask us for help with it because its not ready yet."

I got my 500GB drive and the cooldrive case setup on friday. So far no problems at all. It recognized it right away and formatted it quickly. My usage went from 88% used to 19% used. No problems with playback yet. The case doesn't get horribly hot either. I have it sitting on the very top shelf with open air all around it.
Mike
When you say that you have no problems do you mean that you have not noticed any data loss/dropouts/frameskips or freezing as I have reported? What make of drive do you have and what are the specs (speed cache size)? Also have you looked at the 8300HD diagnostic screens? What is the firmware version? What is the size and percentage of AVFS partition relative to the total size of the 500GB drive as compared to the same data for the internal 160GB drive?

You can enter the diagnostic mode from the couch! Be careful with this one though, it may do other accidental things if you press the wrong buttons. Press and hold the Pause button until the Mail light starts to flash (around 10-15 seconds). Press Page Up and you will enter the diagnostic screens. This does not appear to affect the buffer or recording in progress
Thanks for any info that you can provide.
Andy.A

MikeAlletto

09-27-05, 11:47 AM

Mike
When you say that you have no problems do you mean that you have not noticed any data loss/dropouts/frameskips or freezing as I have reported? What make of drive do you have and what are the specs (speed cache size)? Also have you looked at the 8300HD diagnostic screens? What is the firmware version? What is the size and percentage of AVFS partition relative to the total size of the 500GB drive as compared to the same data for the internal 160GB drive?

You can enter the diagnostic mode from the couch! Be careful with this one though, it may do other accidental things if you press the wrong buttons. Press and hold the Pause button until the Mail light starts to flash (around 10-15 seconds). Press Page Up and you will enter the diagnostic screens. This does not appear to affect the buffer or recording in progress
Thanks for any info that you can provide.
Andy.A

It's a Hitachi Deskstar 7K500 500GB Serial ATA II 7200RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer.

I'll check the diagnostic screens tonight for the firmware version as well as partition sizes.

davehancock

09-27-05, 12:10 PM

Unless you bought your dvr box, you don't own it. You are renting it. Therefore nothing is officially supported until you get notice from your cable company. If you bought the box and the box came with a manual that talked about adding external drives they yes, you'd have a point. But only folks I know who own their 8300HD boxes live up in Canada. Since its not officially supported the cable company can turn it off whenever they want to. Technically its not supports to be there, but it is. Kind of like a "we'll turn it on, but don't ask us for help with it because its not ready yet.".

Great Point Mike! :) We ALL need to keep this in mind.

An observation on the "break-up" issue that Andy has talked about: I have a 250GB 7200rpm Maxtor SATA with 16MB buffer. I've had this since March. I've observed that I have somewhat fewer break-ups on recordings made to this drive than made to the internal drive. This may be due to sample-to-sample variations in the 8300HD, or due to the 8300HD using a 5200rpm drive. It could also be due to the 16Mb buffer in the external drive. I also note, as others have, that when I ask the 8300 to do lots (record 2 HD shows, while watching a 3rd from the HD) that the incidence of drop outs on recorded shows increases. It then doesn't seem to make much difference what drive is being recorded to. It is likely a bus speed issue in the 8300HD.

ANDY.A

09-27-05, 12:21 PM

Great Point Mike! :) We ALL need to keep this in mind.

An observation on the "break-up" issue that Andy has talked about: I have a 250GB 7200rpm Maxtor SATA with 16MB buffer. I've had this since March. I've observed that I have somewhat fewer break-ups on recordings made to this drive than made to the internal drive. This may be due to sample-to-sample variations in the 8300HD, or due to the 8300HD using a 5200rpm drive. It could also be due to the 16Mb buffer in the external drive. I also note, as others have, that when I ask the 8300 to do lots (record 2 HD shows, while watching a 3rd from the HD) that the incidence of drop outs on recorded shows increases. It then doesn't seem to make much difference what drive is being recorded to. It is likely a bus speed issue in the 8300HD.

Dave
Thanks for the input. In theory the result that you have experienced is as it should be
What's puzzling to me is that I have experienced the exact opposite result. Programs recorded to the internal drive Maxtor 160GB 5400 rpm have no breakups (unless original program signal is crap). Programs recorded to the external drive Maxtor 160GB 5400 rpm have fewer and less severe breakups than the 300GB Maxtor QVX.
Andy.A

vegggas

09-27-05, 12:31 PM

I have not had any breakups or skipping since I did a hard boot last Thursday. The problems were getting worse, and the drive was getting louder. After the hard reboot, the drive is virtually silent again, and recordings are error free. I still think it comes down to an internal ram buffer memory issue that needs an ocasional reset that can only be done with a complete hard reboot (hold power while plugging in). In my process of doing a hard reboot, I also powered down the external drive while the STB was unplugged.

vegggas

ANDY.A

09-27-05, 01:19 PM

pepar

09-27-05, 02:33 PM

vegggas

09-27-05, 03:23 PM

Andy,
I thought I explained this earlier, but here it is again in detail, and also on the first page of the 8300 link in my sig.
To do a hard boot and download of software (any SA digi STB), do the following. Turn off the STB and wait 5 or more seconds.
Remove power (plug) from STB and wait 5 or more seconds.
- If you are resetting the external drive too, remove power from it at this point and wait 5 or more seconds, then re-apply power to external Drive and wait 5 or more seconds.
Press and hold the power button on the STB front panel. While the power button is depressed, re-apply power to the STB and continue holding the power button until it says boot and/or the LED display goes in a circle a few times (usually about 15 seconds). The STB will refresh all available software and modules on the system, as well as clear out the memory cache. The IPG and other data may take up to 30 min to fully download.
Pepar,
Here is one for you... Have you seen all those truck and SUV commercials where they are offroad and doing crazy stuff... Even though they boast they can do those things, they DO NOT SUPPORT ANYONE ACTUALLY DOING THEM. If you take your truck or SUV offroad and something breaks or is damaged, it will not be covered under warranty and labeled as abuse. Just because I CAN drive over a boulder, log, stream or even a curb, The manufacturer does not support my actions in any way, but the ability to do so is still there.

vegggas

DoubleDAZ

09-27-05, 06:41 PM

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that; I read all the problems had by posters here. I'm complaining about the fact that, somehow, the cable providers are getting away with this lame status of active, but not supported. Only a monopoly could do this; only a monopoly would have the mindset to think this is acceptable. And no flaming me on calling them a monopoly as SAT's but a gnat flying around their heads.

Just my $.02.I don't really want to jump in the middle of this "argument" (because I think you have somewhat of a point), but what would you have SA and the cableco's do? Should SA make mulitple units with and without various options? Should the cableco's then order units without the connectors until they are ready to support the optional features? And then, when they finally get their acts together, should they then order new units to swap out all the old ones?

Now you and I both know this doesn't make any fiscal sense for either SA or the cableco's, not to mention all the current users who would have to do without. IMHO (meaning I'm right :) ) it makes a lot more sense for SA to make a single unit with all possible options. This saves them, and eventually us, a lot of money through volume purchases and streamlined manufacturing while putting some pressure on cableco's to support the optional features. Cableco's save money by not having to purchase multiple configurations and swap basic units for those with optional features, and over time, they can add support for the optional features to gain subscribers and increase customer satisfaction.

To be sure, many (most?) cableco's do not move fast enough to support these optional features. But, in their defense, the investment needed might simply not be justified yet due to the still relatively low number of potential users, not to mention minimal profits. And, I can think of a number of questions that might be floating around the boardrooms. In the case of SATA, will they support a certain configuration/set of external drives or will they try to support all those on the market? Or are they trying to develop a way to support only rented units and not those purchased by subscribers? In the case of 1394 (Firewaire), there may also be some legal ramifications that preclude quick support. Then too, it's always easier for the cableco's to let us be the guinea pigs and do all the beta-testing/troubleshooting for them. :)

pepar

09-27-05, 07:52 PM

Pepar,
Here is one for you... Have you seen all those truck and SUV commercials where they are offroad and doing crazy stuff... Even though they boast they can do those things, they DO NOT SUPPORT ANYONE ACTUALLY DOING THEM. If you take your truck or SUV offroad and something breaks or is damaged, it will not be covered under warranty and labeled as abuse. Just because I CAN drive over a boulder, log, stream or even a curb, The manufacturer does not support my actions in any way, but the ability to do so is still there.

vegggas - You're resorting to the "Professional driver on a closed course. Don't try this at home." argument? Bwaaaaa - ha-ha-ha! :D

RaveD

09-27-05, 07:56 PM

I plugged in my new 300GB SATA enclosure and everything seemed to be going smoothly. It asked if I want to format the drive and I went ahead.

After a couple of minutes I moved the enclosure during the format and the light went off. It turns out the SATA cable was not firmly connected. The 8300HD indicated that the device was not working properly, as expected.

So I turned eveything off, secured the connection and rebooted. When the box came up it simply said that the external device is usable, and sure enough, my usage went from 93% to 31% as expected.

I fear that the drive format was interrupted and may not have completed properly. Nevertheless, the box seems to think it is fine. I did a test recording and it seems to work OK.

Should I be concerned that the drive is not formatted properly? Is there any way to force a reformat of the drive, short of connecting it to a PC?

pepar

09-27-05, 08:08 PM

I don't really want to jump in the middle of this "argument" (because I think you have somewhat of a point), but what would you have SA and the cableco's do? Should SA make mulitple units with and without various options? Should the cableco's then order units without the connectors until they are ready to support the optional features? And then, when they finally get their acts together, should they then order new units to swap out all the old ones?

Now you and I both know this doesn't make any fiscal sense for either SA or the cableco's, not to mention all the current users who would have to do without. IMHO (meaning I'm right :) ) it makes a lot more sense for SA to make a single unit with all possible options. This saves them, and eventually us, a lot of money through volume purchases and streamlined manufacturing while putting some pressure on cableco's to support the optional features. Cableco's save money by not having to purchase multiple configurations and swap basic units for those with optional features, and over time, they can add support for the optional features to gain subscribers and increase customer satisfaction.

To be sure, many (most?) cableco's do not move fast enough to support these optional features. But, in their defense, the investment needed might simply not be justified yet due to the still relatively low number of potential users, not to mention minimal profits. And, I can think of a number of questions that might be floating around the boardrooms. In the case of SATA, will they support a certain configuration/set of external drives or will they try to support all those on the market? Or are they trying to develop a way to support only rented units and not those purchased by subscribers? In the case of 1394 (Firewaire), there may also be some legal ramifications that preclude quick support. Then too, it's always easier for the cableco's to let us be the guinea pigs and do all the beta-testing/troubleshooting for them. :)

Oh heck, jump right in! :)

SA *does* make multiple units; check this 8300 PDF (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/source/7004920.pdf). I count fourteen. And cable companies *do* order the configurations that they want to offer. Of course, if they ever planned to offer external expansion, they'd order with the ports. And only turn them on when ready. So, "port not active" equals no support. "Port active" equals support. Or should in my book. They should leave the damn things OFF until they're ready.

BTW, an option is only an option until it's selected and implemented. And then it's a feature.

davehancock

09-27-05, 08:31 PM

Oh heck, jump right in! :)

SA *does* make multiple units; check this 8300 PDF (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/source/7004920.pdf). I count fourteen. And cable companies *do* order the configurations that they want to offer. Of course, if they ever planned to offer external expansion, they'd order with the ports. And only turn them on when ready. So, "port not active" equals no support. "Port active" equals support. Or should in my book. They should leave the damn things OFF until they're ready.

BTW, an option is only an option until it's selected and implemented. And then it's a feature.

I count 8! Several have been discontinued and 3 won't be available till 4th quarter. This forum is for 8300HD - and there are only 3 available right now:
1) 4006781 - Base HD Unit
2) 4006775 - MR HD Unit
3) 4009287 - MR HD Unit w/Internal Cable Modem
No choice on eSATA
No choice on USB (though not enabled)
No choice on HDMI
There was a choice on IEE 1394, but no longer

So the cable company really does not have much of a choice!!

pepar

09-27-05, 08:35 PM

I count 8! Several have been discontinued and 3 won't be available till 4th quarter. This forum is for 8300HD - and there are only 3 available right now:
1) 4006781 - Base HD Unit
2) 4006775 - MR HD Unit
3) 4009287 - MR HD Unit w/Internal Cable Modem
No choice on eSATA
No choice on USB (though not enabled)
No choice on HDMI
There was a choice on IEE 1394, but no longer

So the cable company really does not have much of a choice!!

Shhhh!

DoubleDAZ

09-27-05, 08:55 PM

Oh heck, jump right in! :)

SA *does* make multiple units; check this 8300 PDF (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/source/7004920.pdf). I count fourteen. And cable companies *do* order the configurations that they want to offer. Of course, if they ever planned to offer external expansion, they'd order with the ports. And only turn them on when ready. So, "port not active" equals no support. "Port active" equals support. Or should in my book. They should leave the damn things OFF until they're ready.

BTW, an option is only an option until it's selected and implemented. And then it's a feature.I know what the SA website shows, it's said that for quite some time now, but I believe what they show there and what is ultimately sold for cableco use are 2 different things. I think some of that is left over from their ill-fated attempt to enter the retail market here in the US.

Be that as it may, I tend to agree with your "port active = port support" concept, but I'm not sure there is an actual on/off switch here, software or otherwise, unlike the 1394 port. Actually, we're daisy-chaining HDDs here aren't we?

Then too, I'm pretty simple-minded and believe that a good many folks here are more than satisfied with their ability to record more HD and don't care all that much about support/non-support. :)

And that is all the $.02 worth I have to offer. :D

vegggas

09-28-05, 02:13 AM

vegggas - You're resorting to the "Professional driver on a closed course. Don't try this at home." argument? Bwaaaaa - ha-ha-ha! :D
No, just the simple fact that "off-road" vehicles are not warranted or supported for "off-road" use. They claim all that traction control and 4-wheel drive is for rainy or snowy highway driving. Break something while offroad and your warranty is not valid because it is considered abuse.

RaveD brought up a good point. How do you format the external drive? There is no support for reformatting the internal drive, but we figured it out. I wonder if the same process (found on the first post of the 8000 and 8300 SARA threads) will format both drives?
Anyone with empty drives willing to try it?

Re: Memory usage.
With larger drives in use, the memory required to map each program and constant recording and deleting may be causing a fragmentation of memory in the unit. Adding a much larger drive could also be affecting memory as the STB has to use a virtual mapping system for the file system on the new drive. Memory fragmentation is not cleared unless a reboot is done, but once running programs get corrupted, a hard reboot needs to be done to re-download the correct programs.

vegggas

smook

09-28-05, 07:58 AM

vegggas ,

I would be willing to reformat my external drive as a test. Since this might be the only way to recover from my bad disconnect of a couple days ago, and now the system is reporting it cannot see the external drive. BTW I'm waiting for the rma from Maxtor to get a new one.

Only caution I would like to clear up ...I don't wish to reformat my internal hard drive of the 8300HD just the external. Let me know what you think.

Send me the procedure and clearly let me know if it might affect my internal HD on the 8300HD.

Standing by. Cheers!
-Bill. :cool:

assJack1

09-28-05, 08:11 AM

(Posted this in the wrong thread last night and am at work now, so I cant test hooking the SATA cable up)

I recieved my Hitachi 500GB drive and cooldrive case yesterday. I mounted the drive into the case and powered it up without any SATA cables hooked. I did not hear the HDD spin up. Normally to me this means it's a bad drive. However, I have never used a SATA one before I am starting to wonder if a signal from the device 8300HD is required before the motor kicks in.

Any ideas before I call ZipZoomFly?

BPlayer

09-28-05, 08:20 AM

RaveD brought up a good point. How do you format the external drive? There is no support for reformatting the internal drive, but we figured it out. I wonder if the same process (found on the first post of the 8000 and 8300 SARA threads) will format both drives?
Anyone with empty drives willing to try it?I had a short discussion with Andy.A in another forum and I suggested that the internal reformat procedure would also reformat the external at the same time if it was connected, but how would you know for sure. The only way would be if after the reformat of the internal it popped up the external drive detected and do you want it formatted. I did it once but cannot remember if I got a separate message.

At this point the only sure method is reformatting the external in a PC and then reconnecting to the PVR. This results in the external detected and format question.

The interesting part is the reformat takes less than a minute to complete, so I guess it is only laying down a FAT.