No, just the simple fact that "off-road" vehicles are not warranted or supported for "off-road" use. They claim all that traction control and 4-wheel drive is for rainy or snowy highway driving. Break something while offroad and your warranty is not valid because it is considered abuse.

I very much understand your point, vegggas. But I don't think the analogy is quite the same. The SATA port is turned off until somebody at the provider makes a concious decision - probably after at least one meeting with technical people - to activate the port. One criteria that *should* be considered/discussed is support. The only "out" I'd allow them is for them to assume that their subscribers don't know an F-connector from a G-string. And will take what they get, when they get it. And be happy.

I had a short discussion with Andy.A in another forum and I suggested that the internal reformat procedure would also reformat the external at the same time if it was connected, but how would you know for sure. The only way would be if after the reformat of the internal it popped up the external drive detected and do you want it formatted. I did it once but cannot remember if I got a separate message.

At this point the only sure method is reformatting the external in a PC and then reconnecting to the PVR. This results in the external detected and format question.

The interesting part is the reformat takes less than a minute to complete, so I guess it is only laying down a FAT.

Bear in mind that a PC uses a completely different format/file system than the DVR. What we would be dong is more erasing the file system that the DVR laid down than "reformatting" the drive. That's why I suggested a low level format, a much more basic function.

If a quick format - clearing the file access table - works, great. But personally I'd do a full formatting.

Anyone with the hitachi 500GB drive notice that its noisey? If I lightly pick up the case with it in it while on it makes all kinds of noises. When I power it off it kind of grinds to a stop. Don't know if this is just hitachi drives and the way they are or what. It "seems" to work ok (see below) though so I don't know. There is no noise at all while it is actually operating though which is what I'd be really worried about.

Had my first hiccup with the 8300 box last night during amazing race. Don't know if its the external drive or the cable boxes fault though since I've heard about this happening to many others with just the internal drive. Was recording 2 shows at the 7-8pm time slot and watched a 3rd recorded show. Those played back fine and I had no problems. Watched another recorded show from 7:45 until around 8:30. At the 8-9 slot had 2 recording, from 9-10 the 2nd hour of amazing race was recording. Around 8:30 flipped over to the amazing race and rewound to the beginning so I could watch it all. Because of various interruptions ended up not catching up to live tv at 10 so it kicked me out. Went back to start amazing race again and it indicated it was only 1 hour 35 minutes long! So watched it till the 1:35 mark and it kicked out even though I saw the box still recording until 10pm. One thing I noticed while watching is that FF and RW got really slow and the box started reacting very slowly to inputs. So now I'm in the dog house because it didn't all record and I'll need to "find" the show through alternate means to catch the ending.

In regards to the stats on my box:

PTV OS: OS Home Server Edition 1.4
Flash: 1.87.27.1
App(s): SARA v1.87.27.1

Drive 1
ITFS
Part 1GB
Free 969MB
AVFS
Part 150GB
Free 67GB
Reserved
Part 1GB
Free 0KB

Drive 2
ITFS
Part 1GB
Free 986MB
AVFS
Part 446GB
Free 404GB
Reserved
Part 1GB
Free 0KB

On another HDD Page drive 1 has capacity of 152GB and drive 2 465GB.

Is this what you were looking for?

Anyone with the hitachi 500GB drive notice that its noisey? If I lightly pick up the case with it in it while on it makes all kinds of noises. When I power it off it kind of grinds to a stop. Don't know if this is just hitachi drives and the way they are or what. It "seems" to work ok (see below) though so I don't know. There is no noise at all while it is actually operating though which is what I'd be really worried about.

Noisy hard drive = BAD. Grinding hard drive = REAL BAD. Could be bad bearings. Picking it up by hand usually means it gets tilted a bit, and this puts sideways pressures on the bearings. Grinding at that point indicates, at least to me, that the bearings are headed south. It may work for a while, but if this were on my computer, I'd be preparing for a failure.

Noisy hard drive = BAD. Grinding hard drive = REAL BAD. Could be bad bearings. Picking it up by hand usually means it gets tilted a bit, and this puts sideways pressures on the bearings. Grinding at that point indicates, at least to me, that the bearings are no good. It may work for a while, but if this were on my computer, I'd be preparing for a failure.

I need to prepare for a swap then. I'll have to watch what is on it and then disconnect and send it back for replacement. This means clearing off a bunch on the internal drive. Wish there was a way to clone these drives.

I need to prepare for a swap then. I'll have to watch what is on it and then disconnect and send it back for replacement. This means clearing off a bunch on the internal drive. Wish there was a way to clone these drives.

I haven't seen any posters here saying anything about that, but it should be possible. Somehow.

Bear in mind that a PC uses a completely different format/file system than the DVR. What we would be dong is more erasing the file system that the DVR laid down than "reformatting" the drive. That's why I suggested a low level format, a much more basic function.

If a quick format - clearing the file access table - works, great. But personally I'd do a full formatting.
Here is the page on the Maxtor site re connecting there QVX to a PC. I don't know if it will work with other brand drives. Note that the file system on the drive is LINUX based and therefore you cannot work with the drive in Windows.
https://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/maxtor.cfg/php/enduser/popup_adp.php?p_faqid=2361&p_created=1115047456

Here is the page on the Maxtor site re connecting there QVX to a PC. I don't know if it will work with other brand drives. Note that the file system on the drive is LINUX based and therefore you cannot work with the drive in Windows.
https://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/maxtor.cfg/php/enduser/popup_adp.php?p_faqid=2361&p_created=1115047456

Alll-righty then, what would happen if we hooked it to Linux box? If we can look at it, we should be able to image it for ghosting to a new drive for upgrade or replacement.

I know there has been a lot of concern about using an esata case with a fan-- and I know alot of you selected that ugly amber case for the fan, but I still believe that the alumninum cooldrive case is sufficient considering the high operating temp of the Hitachi 500MB drive.

You might want to check out the review of HD's on Tom's Hardware site:

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20050927/hd_round_up-07.html

(Oh-- I'll apologize to those of you who like ugly amber cases in advance of your replies! :)

I know there has been a lot of concern about using an esata case with a fan-- and I know alot of you selected that ugly amber case for the fan, but I still believe that the alumninum cooldrive case is sufficient considering the high operating temp of the Hitachi 500MB drive.

Even though I'm getting mine replaced with a new one I also think its ok. The sucker does get hot though. When I took it out last night to package it back up the thing was HOT. I could still hold it with bare hands but some might not have been able to. The sides were hotter than the top. I have no clue what its temp was though. The cooldrive case was slightly warm, not anywhere near the temp of the HD itself.

ok im not sure if this was talked about, but good gawd theres 39pages of this stuff :)
Anyways, I JUST got a 8300 (not hd) box today (yea i know i'm behind on the times)
But I was wondering if I go the SATA drive route, is it possible to transfer whats on that drive to a PC?
Or would getting a standalone DVD Recorder be a better option? Does that even work.
Sorry for such newbie questions, but I figured someone would at least know.
Thanks for your help,
Eric

I know there has been a lot of concern about using an esata case with a fan-- and I know alot of you selected that ugly amber case for the fan, but I still believe that the alumninum cooldrive case is sufficient considering the high operating temp of the Hitachi 500MB drive.

You might want to check out the review of HD's on Tom's Hardware site:

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20050927/hd_round_up-07.html

(Oh-- I'll apologize to those of you who like ugly amber cases in advance of your replies! :)

My UA (ugly amber) case will be here next week! :)

ok im not sure if this was talked about, but good gawd theres 39pages of this stuff :)
Anyways, I JUST got a 8300 (not hd) box today (yea i know i'm behind on the times)
But I was wondering if I go the SATA drive route, is it possible to transfer whats on that drive to a PC?
Or would getting a standalone DVD Recorder be a better option? Does that even work.
Sorry for such newbie questions, but I figured someone would at least know.
Thanks for your help,
Eric

The file systems are not compatible, so it's not possible to even see the files on a PC, much less do anything with them.

Even though I'm getting mine replaced with a new one I also think its ok. The sucker does get hot though. When I took it out last night to package it back up the thing was HOT. I could still hold it with bare hands but some might not have been able to. The sides were hotter than the top. I have no clue what its temp was though. The cooldrive case was slightly warm, not anywhere near the temp of the HD itself.

A measure of how good a passive cooling solution is working is that the case would be close to the temp of the drive. Anybody disagree?

I'm flabbergasted at all the resistance and even pushback that the "fan" side of this issue is getting. The cooler a drive runs, the less likely that it will have data errors and an early death. I'd rather err on the "too cool" side - if there is such a thing - than on the "too hot" side. That we want to have a piece of gear that looks at home with our other gear is fine, but my thinking is that given a choice between attractive/hot drive and ugly amber/cool drive, I would always select the latter. Actually, I will keep searching until I find attractive/cool drive. But until then, it's ugly/cool for me.

A measure of how good a passive cooling solution is working is that the case would be close to the temp of the drive. Anybody disagree?

This is true. But, in order for the two temps to equalize, the drive's temp must come down, while the case's temp comes up. How much the drive's temp comes down depends on (assuming the case is capable of conducting heat very efficiently from the drive) how much heat the case can hold, and how fast the case can dissipate heat to the atmosphere. Since we're talking 24/7 operation, the second is much more important. Thus, the usual addition of large heat sinks, or a fan...

I thought it would be next week before it arrived, but here it is. I will take pictures and post them tonight. I'll say one thing right not; it's NOT amber. The case is textured aluminum with end caps made of smoked plexiglas w/integrated rubber feet.

"Pictures at 11."

This is true. But, in order for the two temps to equalize, the drive's temp must come down, while the case's temp comes up. How much the drive's temp comes down depends on (assuming the case is capable of conducting heat very efficiently from the drive) how much heat the case can hold, and how fast the case can dissipate heat to the atmosphere. Since we're talking 24/7 operation, the second is much more important. Thus, the usual addition of large heat sinks, or a fan...

Indeed. And that was my point.

When I hear the drive is "HOT" (as opposed to merely "hot") and the enclosure is "slightly warm", I am suspicious that there is insufficient heat transfer from drive to enclosure.

Indeed. And that was my point.

When I hear the drive is "HOT" (as opposed to merely "hot") and the enclosure is "slightly warm", I am suspicious that there is insufficient heat transfer from drive to enclosure.

Agreed. And since the enclosures are not much larger than the drives themselves (read: same order of magnitude), I am more than suspicious. I would be willing to bet money that the heat transfer is lacking at best. And if there are any gaps between the case and drive (which would contain air), the case may be acting as an insulator, rather than a conductor. Not good...

Again, I'm totally with you on the fan thing.

Agreed. And since the enclosures are not much larger than the drives themselves (read: same order of magnitude), I am more than suspicious. I would be willing to bet money that the heat transfer is lacking at best. And if there are any gaps between the case and drive (which would contain air), the case may be acting as an insulator, rather than a conductor. Not good...

Again, I'm totally with you on the fan thing.

You'd be right if the case were indeed sealed. The aluminum case from cooldrive (the one most people are talking abot) has numerous slit vents on the bottom. Simply turning it over works well. This combined with its metal material does not make it an insulator.

You'd be right if the case were indeed sealed. The aluminum case from cooldrive (the one most people are talking abot) has numerous slit vents on the bottom. Simply turning it over works well. This combined with its metal material does not make it an insulator.

Slit vents on the bottom, eh? Are there any on the top?

The "insulator" reference was to the air itself if there is any between the drive and the case.

Yes, I fully understand the air reference and the implications of it acting as an insulator. No, there are no slit vents on top and very little room between the drive and case itself.

I have mine on the floor, upside-down, behind a speaker. So for me it's out of sight, radiating (transferring) the heat from the drive, through the metal and venting throught the slats.

Yes, I fully understand the air reference and the implications of it acting as an insulator. No, there are no slit vents on top and very little room between the drive and case itself.

I have mine on the floor, upside-down, behind a speaker. So for me it's out of sight, radiating (transferring) the heat from the drive, through the metal and venting throught the slats.

For a drive to pass it's heat to the enclosure by radiation it would have to emit infrared. (Look it up.) Another alternative is convection, but you indicated there are no holes at the top - just the bottom, so that's not happening. That leaves conduction and metal-to-metal contact, which I'd bet is minimal. So, we're back to the drive heating the air and the air heating the enclosure. We're also back to air being an insulator . . .

I received the case I ordered and took some pics so that everyone can see.

Click here (http://www.peparsplace.com/html/21.html) and LET IT LOAD!

Looks nice! And you ordering it from...?? And for $$$...?? And got your cable from...?? And got your drive for $$$...??

Thanks!
xnappo

I get freezes and skips with my 8300HD now that the new Maxtor external drive is connected.

Sometimes it happens on recorded programs, where I might lose a few seconds of the program. Sometimes it happens while watching the live buffer and recording to the external drive at the same time.

I hooked up the drive to my PC and ran PowerMax and it passes the full scan with no errors. Thus, I don't suspect the drive is bad, though a low-level format is my next task (once I watch all the shows I recorded there ;)).

I did a hard reboot of the 8300HD and it didn't seem to help.

Anyone else having these problems? Is it necessary to use the Maxtor drive that is designed for consumer electronics, with relaxed error correction?

What is the best app (free) to do a low-level format? thanks in advance. Eric

Looks nice! And you ordering it from...?? And for $$$...?? And got your cable from...?? And got your drive for $$$...??

Thanks!
xnappo

Sorry. I just threw it up quickly. I searched online and then eBay, and one or two met my criteria; ACTIVE COOLING (FAN), ATTRACTIVE and COMPACT, in that order. I bought this one on eBay for $35.33 plus $14.99 shipping. (If you'd like, I can email you the URL for the auction.) The cable came with the case. Obviously, there is a manufacturer, but it is nearly impossible to find; my guess is that they OEM it a lot and have attractive, but generic packaging. The Maxtor drive is one that is "lying about" about to be built into a computer and was merely a placeholder.

I've seen what I think is the exact same case at Newegg, but you need to look at all of their external enclosures as there a few that look identical, but are priced very differently. One or two seemingly minor features, there or not there, seem to make a big diference in price.

I received the case I ordered and took some pics so that everyone can see.

Click here (http://www.peparsplace.com/html/21.html) and LET IT LOAD!

This is the exact E-Power enclosure you can get from NewEgg for cheaper, and with a better AC adaptor that you can actually plug into a power strip.

The cable is a straight $2 SATA cable; you still need the eSATA cable to connect to the 8300HD.

I've seen what I think is the exact same case at Newegg, but you need to look at all of their external enclosures as there a few that look identical, but are priced very differently. One or two seemingly minor features, there or not there, seem to make a big diference in price.

From the photos this looks identical to the one I had a customer purchase from NewEgg - except for the color. Price is $33.95

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817155903

Again, you still need a SATA to eSATA cable.

From the photos this looks identical to the one I had a customer purchase from NewEgg - except for the color. Price is $33.95

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817155903

Again, you still need a SATA to eSATA cable.

I thought so, too. Your first post with the Newegg URL came just hours after I won the auction, but I made a mental note that Newegg would probably be a more reliable supplier. And shipping that was more in line with real costs. That's my main gripe against some ebay sellers - they gouge on it. And many buyers are too, oh, what's the word - STUPID - to consider the shipping cost when deciding what they're willing to pay for the item.

Thanks, I was aware that the included cable would not work. I'm up to 90 days away from being able to use an external drive acording to the tech director at my provider. I've got some time to pull all of that together.

Thanks, I was aware that the included cable would not work. I'm up to 90 days away from being able to use an external drive acording to the tech director at my provider. I've got some time to pull all of that together.

I knew you knew what you were doing - I posted the link and cable comment for others. I am so convinced that this E-Power case is the way to go that I have just ordered one myself. As you recall, I have been living on the edge for 9 months with no fan - but I have always conceeded that a fan (and a big, slow one like on the E-Power) is the smart thing to do.

Best of luck with your cable provider - I've alway wondered how come you were posting often on both this and the Passport site. It's clear that you hope that Pioneer really comes through with software that enables ("incorporates" would be a more correct term) the eSATA port. :cool:

I've alway wondered how come you were posting often on both this and the Passport site. It's clear that you hope that Pioneer really comes through with software that enables ("incorporates" would be a more correct term) the eSATA port. :cool:

Jus tryin' to put my ass in the know so I can hit the ground running when the flag drops. Hope that's not too many metaphors . . .

:)

I get freezes and skips with my 8300HD now that the new Maxtor external drive is connected.

Sometimes it happens on recorded programs, where I might lose a few seconds of the program. Sometimes it happens while watching the live buffer and recording to the external drive at the same time.

Anyone else having these problems? Is it necessary to use the Maxtor drive that is designed for consumer electronics, with relaxed error correction?Many of us are having the similar problems, some not as bad. A pattern or root cause has not been determined and just about everything has been done to try and resolve the problem, e.g. different 8300, different hard drive, reformat of hard drive.

I suspect it is either a SARA software issue or hardware performance issue.

dc_dc dug this up and posted it on the Passport thread, so I imagine fellow lurking Passporters have already seen this. But, in case any of them have missed it (and to justify our presence on this thread!):

The jist is that Pioneer has spun off the division responsible for Passport software and " . . it is . . working on several new projects, including Passport Echo version 2.7, which will support 16 or more “mosaic” video thumbnails that can be categorized, and a suite of “PassTime” games. It will also include an “iSubscribe” element for impulse subscriptions to premium networks and other cable services, including high-speed data. A forthcoming DVR feature will allow users to save shows in a folder format. Selecting “Play All” in a “Friends” folder, for example, will automatically play consecutive saved episodes, starting with the first one that was recorded. The 2.7 version should be released by November 2005 . . .

This ties in with what my cable provider told about activating the SATA port 12/15 - 12/31.

Here's the entire release. (http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2005/1005/10f.htm)

Ok so the PC thing won't work, but a standalone DVD recorder should work fine right?
Just want to make sure before I shell out the dough.
Again sorry for the sort of off-topic post, but you guys seem to know a helluva lot more than I do, so it's much appreciated :)

Thanks
Eric

Ok so the PC thing won't work, but a standalone DVD recorder should work fine right?
Just want to make sure before I shell out the dough.
Again sorry for the sort of off-topic post, but you guys seem to know a helluva lot more than I do, so it's much appreciated :)

Thanks
Eric

I don't know how you'd hook a hard drive directly to a DVD recorder, but if you could, I'd be surprised if a 8300HD-formatted drive would be recognized.

No one here has posted re being successful at doing ANYTHING with the files on their external hard drives except watch them. Someone did point out that the format is a Linux format, which leads to hooking one to a Linux box, but no one has reported doing so.

No I just mean a direct out from the 8300 to the standalone DVD recorder.
I dont have an external hard drive, just the 8300 itself.
All I'm looking to do is archive stuff to DVD if needed.
But yea I dont actually have an external SATA hard drive...
I'd like to be able to archive them straight to DVD (rather than VHS of course)

No I just mean a direct out from the 8300 to the standalone DVD recorder.
I dont have an external hard drive, just the 8300 itself.
All I'm looking to do is archive stuff to DVD if needed.
But yea I dont actually have an external SATA hard drive...
I'd like to be able to archive them straight to DVD (rather than VHS of course)

Ya can't do it. And it's purposely designed that way. The moment the files - programming - can be gotten out of the DVR, it would be on the internet. The files are encrypted beyond present hacker technology's ability to decrypt them.

Ya can't do it. And it's purposely designed that way. The moment the files - programming - can be gotten out of the DVR, it would be on the internet. The files are encrypted beyond present hacker technology's ability to decrypt them.

Sorry pepar but it can be done. Just connect the PVR to a DVD recorder either using the S Video connection or component connection. Play the program or use the Transfer to VCR option and record away. I have done it on a number of occasions. (Of course at the moment you cannot make an HD quality DVD.)

Sorry pepar but it can be done. Just connect the PVR to a DVD recorder either using the S Video connection or component connection. Play the program or use the Transfer to VCR option and record away. I have done it on a number of occasions. (Of course at the moment you cannot make an HD quality DVD.)

Sorry, I din't consider s-video and I don't know of any recorders that accept component video. Perhaps you mean composite. In any case, I can't imagine that anyone wth hi-def gear would even consider down-rezing HD to s-video.

Sorry, I din't consider s-video and I don't know of any recorders that accept component video. Perhaps you mean composite. In any case, I can't imagine that anyone wth hi-def gear would even consider down-rezing HD to s-video.
I just checked my recorder Sony RDRGX300 and you are right. It does not accept component input just S Video. Having said that I have recorded a DVD of an HD program using the S Video connector. Quality was comparable to a commercial DVD movie. Many people would find that acceptable if they could save the program and free up space on the internal 8300HD drive. Also program could be played on a PC.

I just checked my recorder Sony RDRGX300 and you are right. It does not accept component input just S Video. Having said that I have recorded a DVD of an HD program using the S Video connector. Quality was comparable to a commercial DVD movie. Many people would find that acceptable if they could save the program and free up space on the internal 8300HD drive. Also program could be played on a PC.

S-video passes at most about 400 lines of horizontal resolution. DVDs have 480 lines of horizontal resolution. Using the s-video interface will "lose" 20% of the available resolution. I've been spoiled beyond return by hi-def cable and hi-def displays. So, for me, that is not acceptable.

Well, the Pioneer HD box would allow composite output in [animorphic] aspect ratio (4:3 TV, SQUEEZE settings) with Passport. That output to a VCR was very nice on a 32" CRT direct view, because the Samsung TV would allow WIDE mode on the 480i content, and on my smaller display it produced a better picture than SD content on the same set. The 8000HD and the 8300HD have comparatively hugely reduced picture quality on the 480i down-convert, so I do not archive to VCR anymore. YMMV.

v/r,
C-F

Just read thru this thread and saw my question asked several times, but never answered. So let me ask it again!

Has anyone in Toronto or Canada purchased either the sata-esata cable OR the EP-3015A case locally? All the US companies don't ship internationally, so we're screwed otherwise. There was mention of the sonnettech cable being carried @ Carbon Computing in Toronto, but I called and was less than surprised to find that the salesman didn't even understand what I wanted. The case is on eBay for $41 plus $25 for shipping - ridiculous, but just about the only option left.

Somebody, please?!?!?

Another use for down-rez'd DVD's is for playback on PCs or portable DVD players when traveling. While not HD quality, some folks find this preferrable to missing the movie/show altogether or renting/buying DVDs.

S-video passes at most about 400 lines of horizontal resolution. DVDs have 480 lines of horizontal resolution. Using the s-video interface will "lose" 20% of the available resolution. I've been spoiled beyond return by hi-def cable and hi-def displays. So, for me, that is not acceptable.

Actually S-video will pass higher horizontal resolution than that. S-VHS tape recorders could record 400 lines (that's where that number comes from). Also DVD's have 540 horizontal lines of resolution (at least that's what I see when I play through either component or S-Video connection).

BUT there is a problem here: the 8300HD downconversion process really much trashes resolution. I've measured 280 lines (horizontal) max from the HDNet test patterns (on S-video or composite). Actually I get the best DVD quality (on my Sony GX300) recording from SD HBO or HBO "On Demand".

Yep, we've been spoiled :o

Just read thru this thread and saw my question asked several times, but never answered. So let me ask it again!

Has anyone in Toronto or Canada purchased either the sata-esata cable OR the EP-3015A case locally? All the US companies don't ship internationally, so we're screwed otherwise. There was mention of the sonnettech cable being carried @ Carbon Computing in Toronto, but I called and was less than surprised to find that the salesman didn't even understand what I wanted. The case is on eBay for $41 plus $25 for shipping - ridiculous, but just about the only option left.

Somebody, please?!?!?

I have a two extra. PM if intersted.

I have a two extra. PM if intersted.


I like that; eSATA cases without borders.

I get freezes and skips with my 8300HD now that the new Maxtor external drive is connected.

Sometimes it happens on recorded programs, where I might lose a few seconds of the program. Sometimes it happens while watching the live buffer and recording to the external drive at the same time.

I hooked up the drive to my PC and ran PowerMax and it passes the full scan with no errors. Thus, I don't suspect the drive is bad, though a low-level format is my next task (once I watch all the shows I recorded there ;)).

I did a hard reboot of the 8300HD and it didn't seem to help.

Anyone else having these problems? Is it necessary to use the Maxtor drive that is designed for consumer electronics, with relaxed error correction?
I have 3 of te ugly gold cool 300 maxtors on my 83hd cox box....
I have posted this before but here goes again...
The drve max 7l300s0 from newegg is the fastest and coolist and quiet...
$124 case same as epower ugly and cool $26 mwave or new egg $34
I switch them out ... I have the us open tennis on one.. movies on another and series show on the third... Takes less than 2 mins to reboot and switch...
1 terabye for under $500..

These are maxtors best multimedia drive... I use a 600gig raid 0 array in my pc with these

Sorry, I din't consider s-video and I don't know of any recorders that accept component video. Perhaps you mean composite. In any case, I can't imagine that anyone wth hi-def gear would even consider down-rezing HD to s-video.
Plillips makes dvd recorder with component inputs that do work off the cox box
Al

I like that; eSATA cases without borders.

Yeah, our friends to the North get the shaft sometimes when it comes dealing with US companies. Shipping to Canada is really not that expensive or difficult (its a simple green form that takes a minute to fill out). I had a few laying around and figured I'd send them on up.

Oh yeah, its the cable not the cases.

Plillips makes dvd recorder with component inputs that do work off the cox box
Al

Is that a current product? I seem to remember a recorder like the one you mention - maybe that one, but that was discontinued some time ago.

Pepar, FWIW my Philips DVDR80 has component inputs and does a very nice job archiving content from my SA8300HD (cablevision). You have to set the STB to "fixed" output and set the output to "480i wide" to record in 16:9 - no other outputs do 16:9. The DVDR80 is an older model, but is available (along with the DVDR72 and other models that have component in) on Philip's outlet site. For a current model with component in, you could look for a DVDR615. At least I think it's current - it's available at Circuit City.

The drve max 7l300s0 from newegg is the fastest and coolist and quiet...

The 7L300S0 (MaXLine III) has nearly identical performance specifications to the 6L300S0 (DiamondMax 10) that I have.

As I understand, the drives and firmware are the same; the MaXLine has a different construction to supposedly improve reliability.

Are you saying that you have no incidences of freezes or skips with your set-up?

Has anyone tried the Maxtor 300GB SATA hard drive, #TSD300-M16?

Tiger Direct, http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=1487964&sku=TSD-300M16&CMP=EMC-TIGEREMAIL&SRCCODE=WEM975H is offering it for $90 bare.

It would be great if someone who has already tried it can keep me out of trouble before I go ahead and buy it.

Thanks.

Has anyone tried the Maxtor 300GB SATA hard drive, #TSD300-M16?

Tiger Direct, http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=1487964&sku=TSD-300M16&CMP=EMC-TIGEREMAIL&SRCCODE=WEM975H is offering it for $90 bare.

It would be great if someone who has already tried it can keep me out of trouble before I go ahead and buy it.

Thanks.

Gee for $90 that is a fairly safe bet. It looks like this is just OEM version (meaning the packaging is different and there is no software or cabling included) of the LOS300 that lots of people have successfully used for this application. Most of the specs are the same except that this unit has a 150MB/sec transfer rate vs the 133MB/sec speed of the LOS units.

Also, I highly recommend the E-Power enclosure. I just received mine yesterday (replaced a non-fan Addonics aluminum enclosure). It does a nice job of muffling the noise of the drive and the fan is quiet. Of course you will also need a SATA 1.0 to eSATA (or SATA 2.0) cable, such as Cruz sells.

Gee for $90 that is a fairly safe bet. It looks like this is just OEM version (meaning the packaging is different and there is no software or cabling included) of the LOS300 that lots of people have successfully used for this application. Most of the specs are the same except that this unit has a 150MB/sec transfer rate vs the 133MB/sec speed of the LOS units.

Also, I highly recommend the E-Power enclosure. I just received mine yesterday (replaced a non-fan Addonics aluminum enclosure). It does a nice job of muffling the noise of the drive and the fan is quiet. Of course you will also need a SATA 1.0 to eSATA (or SATA 2.0) cable, such as Cruz sells.

Thanks Dave! Got a source for the E-Power enclosure and cable? Also, will I need to format it first?

David

Thanks Dave! Got a source for the E-Power enclosure and cable? Also, will I need to format it first?
The 8300HD will present that option upon connection and bootup. Let it.

Thanks Dave! Got a source for the E-Power enclosure and cable? Also, will I need to format it first?

David

David,
It's pretty easy - consult the following SA manuals for additional information
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003870.pdf

The important thing is to UNPLUG the 8300, then connect & Power Up the External drive then plug the 8300 back in.

Always leave the external drive powered up.

But read the stuff on the External Drive in the links above :) :) :) :)

MarketingProf: Being a delicate piece of electronics, you will want to have quality surge protection. Also, though we do not agree on it, an uninterruptible power supply is something to consider.

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll let you know how it goes.

I found the E-Power enclosure for around $34 (newegg). It comes with a SATA cable but I guess I need a SATA 1.0 to SATA 2.0 cable from Cruz, right?

BTW, all my electronics go through high quality Monster Power controllers (except my Bryston monoblocks which go directly to the wall outlet).

Again, thanks so much for your patience with a newbie on this stuff.

David

I found the E-Power enclosure for around $34 (newegg). It comes with a SATA cable but I guess I need a SATA 1.0 to SATA 2.0 cable from Cruz, right?


Right! ;)

I bought my SATA1 to SATA2 external cable here:

http://www.satacables.com/html/esata-external-esata-shielded-.html

This is the one I bought and installed today: SS-1ESS 3ft. (1-Meter) eSATA to SATA Cable. It was $15.99.

Shipping was a little over $5. I think I paid $21.88 total. I think this is about a $10 savings over the Cruz price, and the setup worked perfectly. My used recording space went from 87% to 12% immediately.

Since the DVR records to the hard drive with the most space available, I am recording a program right now, and I will check the recording for freezes and skips after it is complete. For what it's worth, I have been experiencing the freezes and skips with the internal hard drive since the SARA update a couple of weeks ago. Before the update, I had no such problems. Could just be coincidence, but since I have seen these anomalies with only the internal hard drive, I'm not sure that they are directly related to the addition of an external drive.

I am using a Seagate 300GB NCQ SATA drive in an Apricorn EZ Bus DTS SATA hard drive enclosure, and it does have a large fan and an orange power light. So far, it isn't even warm, and I had to hold my hand in front of it to feel the air being exhausted in order to be sure it was running! It is the quietest external hard drive I have ever seen. It is silver and looks great sitting beside the 8300. I couldn't be happier!

SATA Cables (they won't let me post the URL until I have 5 posts)You can get around that by putting the URL in your profile and tell folks to look for it there. :)

You can get around that by putting the URL in your profile and tell folks to look for it there. :)

Thanks, Dave! For anyone else who might be interested, I added the URL to my profile in the HT Gear space, and I also sent an email directly to MarketingProf with the same information.

After I recorded a 2 hour movie, my used storage space went from 12% to 14%. If that suggests 1% per hour of recording, then I have only doubled my recording space by adding a 300GB hard drive! I started with an 80GB internal drive. By adding a drive that has almost 4 times that capacity, shouldn't I see a higher percentage of unused storage space or, conversely, a lower percentage of used storage space?

The only other thing I noticed while watching the movie was that it wasn't as "sharp" as the movies recorded on the internal hard drive. I am guessing this has something to do with the transfer rate, because the edges of images would start out fuzzy, then smooth out. However, I don't know enough about the technical aspects to make an informed judgment. So far, I have had no freezes or skips. Do these come later, as the drive fills up?

Thanks again for the suggestion. Hope I put the URL in the right place. If not, just let me know where I should put it.

Linda

Just posting in order to subscribe to this thread--forgot to do that in my previous posts. :)

You're welcome. Just remember to remove it sometime after you hit your 5 posts. Then you should be able to go back to that post and edit it to add the URL.

The only other thing I noticed while watching the movie was that it wasn't as "sharp" as the movies recorded on the internal hard drive. I am guessing this has something to do with the transfer rate, because the edges of images would start out fuzzy, then smooth out. However, I don't know enough about the technical aspects to make an informed judgment. So far, I have had no freezes or skips. Do these come later, as the drive fills up?

If the movie appeared "soft" - it probably was the movie. The external drive can't do anything that would result in softer pictures. But it sure can make a difference in digital drop outs, freezes and skips. My external drive seems slightly better in this regards than the internal drive.

If the movie appeared "soft" - it probably was the movie. The external drive can't do anything that would result in softer pictures. But it sure can make a difference in digital drop outs, freezes and skips. My external drive seems slightly better in this regards than the internal drive.
No, it didn't appear "soft." The outlines of the images were jagged, then they would smooth out--would this be a result of "digital drop-out"? I watched the movie while it was recording so that I could compare it to the recorded version. The original was great, and I am not recording in HD.

Any idea about whether or not the full 300GB capacity of the external hard drive has been recognized--or if the system sees it as only an additional 80GB? I am recording another 4 hours tonight. Will check available/used storage after that has been done.

Linda

No, it didn't appear "soft." The outlines of the images were jagged, then they would smooth out--would this be a result of "digital drop-out"? I watched the movie while it was recording so that I could compare it to the recorded version. The original was great, and I am not recording in HD.

Any idea about whether or not the full 300GB capacity of the external hard drive has been recognized--or if the system sees it as only an additional 80GB? I am recording another 4 hours tonight. Will check available/used storage after that has been done.

Linda

Linda, Sorry I misunderstood you. However, the effect you saw would not be due to the external drive. In DTV the picture is broken into 16x16 (pixel) blocks and if there were recording problems they would show up as missing 16x16 blocks or more. What you are describing is something occuring within the blocks.

Did you reboot (unplug) the cable box (with the drive running) a 2nd time? At times that is needed to properly reflect the added drive capacity.

Linda,

You can't go by % numbers, etc., alone because different content on different channels will need varying amounts of storage space. For example, using the average numbers for Phoenix locals, 1 hour on CBS at 17.5Mbps will need a lot more space than 1 hour on ABC at 12.5Mbps and SD content requires significantly less. I've seen HD requirements run from
5G/hr to 9G/hr or more.

Also, you say your 8300HD has an 80G internal drive, but are you sure? Most units came with a 160G drive and adding another 300G (which BTW formats to less than 250G I believe) only adds somewhere around 150% to available storage.

The bottomline is that the guage is only a tool and is not intended to be a finite/accurate indicator of space.

Did you reboot (unplug) the cable box (with the drive running) a 2nd time? At times that is needed to properly reflect the added drive capacity.
Thanks for the suggestion, Dave. No, I did not reboot a second time. Nothing in the instructions indicated that it might be necessary. If that has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, then I missed it, and I read through it several times before deciding to add the external drive.

I know that I am not supposed to unplug the hard drive while the cable box is running. I assume that there is no problem unplugging the cable box while the drive is running. :) I will try this after I have watched all the shows that I recorded tonight and will report the outcome.

Thanks again!

Linda

Also, you say your 8300HD has an 80G internal drive, but are you sure? Most units came with a 160G drive and adding another 300G (which BTW formats to less than 250G I believe) only adds somewhere around 150% to available storage.
Okay, Dave, I'm busted! Yes, I am sure that I have only an 80GB internal drive, because.....I don't have an 8300HD, just an 8300! If this means I'm not welcome here, then I will trade it for an 8300HD. :) I have read the instructions for using the 8300HD with an SDTV, which is all that I have at the present time, and I already had considered trading my 8300 for the 8300HD for the very reason that it does have a 160GB internal drive.

Everything that I have learned here regarding the 8300HD has helped me with my 8300, and because I also have the SATA connector on my DVR, I was sure that I could expand my storage options. The setup worked just as described here, so I'm happy, but I would be happier with even more storage--especially if a 300GB drive is going to give me only 150% additional capacity! Do you think the 300GB formats to even less than the 250GB you mention if you start with an 80GB internal drive?

Linda

Well, Linda, I didn't mean to "out" you, but since you do have the 80G SD version, then the SATA should add another 300% or so, giving you somewhere over 300G total capacity. If you look through previous posts, especially those from vegggas, you'll see more accurate formatting data (and perhaps some pointers on how to check your capacities). There is a lot of overhead and he was making the point that on a G/$ basis, the larger drives were not as economical as one would think and the overhead seems to increase as the drive size increases.

Anyway, I still think you are reading too much into the 12%-14% change for a 2-hour recording when the 87%-12% change shows that your capacity certainly more than doubled when you installed the SATA. I don't know what you recorded for those 2 hours, but AFAIK SD space requirements also vary by channel and content.

Also, you should check how many hours you have recorded that make up the 14%, 7 hours recorded would give you 2%/hr while 14 hours would give you the 1%/hr you computed. I have about 5.5 hours recorded taking 24% of my 160G right now. That's a tad over 4%/hr and that roughly computes to the 20 hours of HD the 160G is rated for, considering overhead, actual filesizes, etc. Your 1%/hr would suggest over 300 hours of recording capacity for you. I believe the 80G is rated for 50 hours, so that means you now have 6 times that. :)

BTW. You now have 6 posts and should be able to post a URL. :D

FWIW, 1 hour doesn't always = x% of space equally. Size varies with content and varible bit rates.
ANALOG video typically takes up more disk space with encoding at a Varible Bit Rate (video) centered at 4.85Mbps and a resolution of 720x480 and a fixed stereo audio encoder at 48khz. Sizes can vary with motion content and encoding datarates as needed.
Each Digital channel will have minor amounts of change of space used, depending on the Stat-muxing (shared varible bit rate amongst all channels on a QAM) of data between other channels and video bitrate depending on movement and complexity of all channels on the same QAM. It's nice to have SD audio and video at a combined averaged datarate of 4Mbps, but 3Mbps, 2Mbps or even less is typical of systems squeezing every bit of space they can out of the bandwidth allocated (any channel can have up to 4Mbps at any instant if needed as long as most others are low usage around 3Mbps, etc).
Sorry for the technical answer, but I stayed at a Holiday INN last night and wrote a paper :cool: ...

Dave, I have now edited my earlier post and provided the URL for the place where I bought my SATA cable. Also removed it from my profile. Thanks again for helping me out with that.

I have watched and erased all my Sunday programs. The only recordings left are on the internal drive. Saving some to copy to VHS and a couple of UT football games for my husband to watch (again)! I have 12 recordings, totalling 23 hours, and have used 12% of my recording space. That shoots down my 1 hr. = 1% theory, although Veggas did a more thorough job. :)

Math has never been my long suit, and when you deal with computers it's all about math--in one form or another. I love the construction aspect, assembling and installing all the various components, and I am always thrilled when they work the way they are supposed to. That's another reason I tried the external SATA drive with my SD version of the 8300--just to see if I could get it to work, and it did! But, I obviously can't do the math. I appreciate the explanations you offered, and I followed, somewhat, the technical explanation Veggas was kind enough to contribute. I don't understand it completely, but I can see the logic involved.

I tried wading through the technical specification pages in the DVR, and I know that the capacity for the hard drive has changed, but I am unable to determine from the 9-digit number displayed (159955456) exactly how much capacity has been calculated. Again, that requires math, and it doesn't say what unit of measurement was used. Also, only the Maxtor hard drive is listed--no second or external drive is mentioned--and the entire capacity is allocated to the Maxtor.

I am not overly concerned about any of this. I am extremely happy with my new external hard drive--especially the enclosure which still is not even warm to the touch--and I can always use it with one of my computers if I don't wear it out with recordings first. :) I have another 8300 upstairs, and I may try replacing the VCR I have connected to it with a DVD recorder to see if I can make that work! Or, I may trade that 8300 in for the 8300HD. Time Warner doesn't charge any more for that version, so I don't have anything to lose. I would be interested in knowing a little more about the "overhead" aspect so that I can buy the most efficient SATA drive to add an external drive to that one.

Thanks again for all the help, good advice, and nice responses!

Linda

I tried wading through the technical specification pages in the DVR, and I know that the capacity for the hard drive has changed, but I am unable to determine from the 9-digit number displayed (159955456) exactly how much capacity has been calculated.It can be tricky because the number displayed is actually double the "real" capacity. It has to do with cluster size or something, but the 159,955,456 equates to approximately 160/2 or the 80G capacity of your internal drive and that is the "unformatted" capacity. There is a page (32 of 34) titled HDD Info that shows what I believe is a "formatted" capacity, 152G in my case. This page appears to contain data for 2 devices, but I don't have a SATA drive, so I don't know if it would then show up on this page. I also don't know if the diagnostics pages are the same for the 8300SD, but I assume they are.

There is a page (32 of 34) titled HDD Info that shows what I believe is a "formatted" capacity, 152G in my case. This page appears to contain data for 2 devices, but I don't have a SATA drive, so I don't know if it would then show up on this page. I also don't know if the diagnostics pages are the same for the 8300SD, but I assume they are.
Dave, you are absolutely correct--again! I just didn't go that far in my initial search. Device 2 is accurately displayed with the model and serial number, and it shows the capacity to be 279GB. So, I assume that the full capacity of the SATA drive has been recognized--interesting that it would require 21GB for formatting, since the internal Maxtor drive shows the capacity to be 76GB, indicating a loss of just 4GB for formatting. Is this the "overhead" aspect you mentioned? There is also "Partition Info" for Device 2 on page 35. This indicates a 1GB partition size and free space (within the partition, I am assuming) of 998MB for the ITFS file system. Under the AVFS (audio/video?) file system, the partition size is listed as 271GB with free space of 266GB. Notwithstanding my limited math skills, what other area of "education" do I need to pursue in order to understand what is going on "under the hood"?

After watching programs recorded on both drives, I can say that the quality of both audio and video is better on the Maxtor internal drive. I do not, however, know whether this is due to the fact that the Seagate drive is external or that the Seagate drive might be inferior to the Maxtor in overall quality. Perhaps I should have bought the same $99 Maxtor that MarketingProf found. I can still do that for the upstairs DVR if you think the manufacturer of the drive is a significant factor. I also have a new Western Digital 120GB SATA drive that I could test to see if there is an appreciable difference in quality. Maybe that also would address the overhead aspect or law of diminishing returns? If I also trade the 8300 for an 8300HD, that would give me an additional 80GB at no cost increase. Decisions, decisions! :)

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

Linda

Overhead is overhead and there is nothing you can do about it. It will vary by drive size and that is part of vegggas' point about diminishing returns with larger drives. The 80G internal gives you 76G with 5% for overhead while the external 300G gives you 266G with 8% for overhead. Again, these numbers are not exact, so you can only draw general conclusions from them.

I'm not sure why you'd see any significant difference in PQ. Both drives store the same data in the same way and it is all just digital 1's and 0's. Unless you are able to actually record the exact same show on both drives and compare the difference though, I think what you may be seeing is simply the difference in the actual recorded programs vs any difference in the drives. The only thing that could really be different would be dropouts and breakups caused by different transfer rates and things like that. I could be wrong, and if I am, I'm sure one of the guru's will chime in and let us know. :)

After watching programs recorded on both drives, I can say that the quality of both audio and video is better on the Maxtor internal drive.

This just makes no sense at all. Not that you are imagining it, Scarlett, but that it is happening. Assuming data is being delivered consistently and reliably, a bit is a bit is a bit. Anybody else find this puzzling?

Well, I think I will go back and review Veggas' posts to see if he has a recommendation for the "sweet spot" as far as the larger capacity hard drives go.

The only way that I can compare picture quality on the two drives is to record the same show on the upstairs DVR, which still has only the 80GB internal drive, and on the downstairs DVR which has the greatest storage space available on the external drive. However, I think you may be correct that it is the transfer rate that is causing any perceived difference in picture quality. I have experienced my first "freeze," although I didn't lose any of the information--it seemed as if part of the picture just needed to "catch up" to the rest of it.

I will have duplicate recordings after tonight's shows, and I will let you know if I still believe there is any difference in quality.

Thanks again!

Linda

I don't think vegggas came to any hard conclusion on the best size/$, he just offered the info for those who were touting very large drives without looking at the "real" cost factor. :)

The way you are comparing PQ seems a little like apples and oranges to me. As I mentioned earlier, the only way to truly compare PQ is to record the very same program on both drives at the same time and then play them both back on the same display, something you simply can't do. Even then, there is different circuitry involved within the 8300 itself to make this an totally accurate comparison.

In your case, you are using 2 different lines on 2 different units, not to mention different drives, and then playing them back on different TV sets. It is very hard to believe there is a difference in PQ between programs recorded on the internal drive vs the external drive, everything else being equal. I think what you are seeing may be accurate, but I don't believe it's because of the different drives, there are still too many variables, what with different lines and different TVs, to make an accurate comparison.

As DoubleDAZ mentioned, I never made any conclusion to a "correct"drive size, and I was pointing out that a drive with XX capacity does not yield that same capacity. You, Linda, saw for yourself that the 300GB drive formatted at a smaller size, and then within that smaller size, a smaller amount was available as free space. With your numbers in an earlier post, you can see there is about 10% of advertised drive space lost on the 300GB drive.
There are no differences in PQ of recorded content based on internal or external drives. Differences can be seen when analog signal levels are weaker on the original analog channels before encoding. A slight difference can be seen as Digital signal levels drop too low (in the form of bit errors and resolveable detail), but no differences on where they are stored.

vegggas

I have recommended the SA8300 to several friends who I think would be overhelmed going full out geek into HDTV captures. They are all happy with the unit, but like most, wish for more than the 20 hours of storage. I recommended they get an external SATA drive as this thread speaks of, but the connections have a sticker over them in the back.

Does anyone know if you need specific firmware loaded from the MSO to make the 8300 SATA External Drive work or will it work without any issues under normal SARA software?

I have recommended the SA8300 to several friends who I think would be overhelmed going full out geek into HDTV captures. They are all happy with the unit, but like most, wish for more than the 20 hours of storage. I recommended they get an external SATA drive as this thread speaks of, but the connections have a sticker over them in the back.

Does anyone know if you need specific firmware loaded from the MSO to make the 8300 SATA External Drive work or will it work without any issues under normal SARA software?
Is there, in fact, a port (connector) under the sticker, or does the sticker cover a blank chassis hole? If there's no physical connector, no firmware upgrade in the world will "activate" it.

Clearly, I understand if no connector no firmware will work :)

There is a connector there.

I don't believe that SA made any units without the SATA connector. It's interesting that the cable company (it must have been them) covered it up. I haven't yet heard of a SARA based system where the external drive doesn't work - so it's definately worth a try. I've read some good prices here for drives laely. You can apparently put together an external drive for around $160. And I'll bet it will work too! ;)

The way you are comparing PQ seems a little like apples and oranges to me. . . In your case, you are using 2 different lines on 2 different units, not to mention different drives, and then playing them back on different TV sets.
Sorry for the delayed response--I've been at school and then out to dinner.

Just to clarify, I have not been comparing picture quality on two different units. I have been comparing it on two different drives, one internal and one external, on the same DVR and the same TV. Obviously, I cannot record the same program on both drives in the same unit in order to make a comparison, which, as you point out, is the only way to compare apples with apples. :) The only thing I thought I might be able to tell by recording the same program on two different units is whether or not my original observation about the difference in sharpness still holds true.

We discussed this issue in class tonight, and the consensus was that it might be related to transfer rate. I suspect that your, and the other experts', assessment is correct. I most certainly defer to your superior knowledge of the technology involved. In all probability, it is nothing more than my overly-critical observation of a perceived degradation in picture quality. In other words, it's all in my head! :)

I am more than happy with the additional storage capacity, the great hard drive enclosure, and the wonderful education I have received from each of you here in this forum. I appreciate your patience, as well as all the good advice.

Thanks again to each of you for your contributions!

Linda

Great thread! Great idea to hold us over 'til Blu-ray or HD-DVD's (at which point I'll start replacing my 500+ DVD collection. lol). HD looks great on my new widescreen (especially up close with "theater lighting", etc.). I can't seem to watch anything less than HD anymore (anything else looks grainy/fuzzy to me now... of course I could back away from the screen a bit. lol).

I'm going to order the stuff above but wanted to check if there's a final verdict (sorry this is redundant), if my cable box with Passport software might work or not? (I have Time-Warner cable in Columbus, Ohio).

Thanks, Dallas.

I am getting my 8300HD here in Columbus, Ohio tomorrow. Does the external SATA drive work on it?

Apparently the SA8300 has a 160GB Hard Drive built in.

What is the largest capacity External SATA Hard Drive that someone has connected to a 8300 and actually had it work?

250GB?

300GB?

320GB?

400GB?

500GB?

1TB?

2TB?

Apparently the SA8300 has a 160GB Hard Drive built in.

What is the largest capacity External SATA Hard Drive that someone has connected to a 8300 and actually had it work?

250GB?

300GB?

320GB?

400GB?

500GB?

1TB?

2TB?
To the best of my knowledge, the largest single hard drive is 500GB.

Many of us are having the similar problems, some not as bad. A pattern or root cause has not been determined and just about everything has been done to try and resolve the problem, e.g. different 8300, different hard drive, reformat of hard drive.

I suspect it is either a SARA software issue or hardware performance issue.
Has anyone learned of any solutions to the freeze/skips that can happen with the Maxtor extended storage attached to the 8300? Does anyone know what Maxtor says about it?

Has anyone had success with a large external SATA RAID array?

Has anyone had success with a large external SATA RAID array?
RAIDs require a RAID host adapter and the 8300HD does not have one. For a RAID array to wrk with it, it would need to "look" like a single volume. Silicon Image has a RAID rig that does just that - there's even a press release where they announce compatibility/certification with/for SA DVRs - but they are $3200 for a terabyte of so.

To the best of my knowledge, the largest single hard drive is 500GB.

So has anyone used a 500GB SATA to a 8300?

And either of these will be seen with on a SATA connection as 1 large drive:

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10129

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10038

RAIDs require a RAID host adapter and the 8300HD does not have one. For a RAID array to wrk with it, it would need to "look" like a single volume. .


Again, see links above

So has anyone used a 500GB SATA to a 8300?

Yes. I have. The drive was defective so I had to return it but I'm getting the replacement today. It worked while I had it though just fine. It is a hitachi SATA2 500GB drive. 16MB cache, 7200rpm drive.

Yes. I have. The drive was defective so I had to return it but I'm getting the replacement today. It worked while I had it though just fine. It is a hitachi SATA2 500GB drive. 16MB cache, 7200rpm drive.


Thanks

Good info to know at least the 500GB size is not an obstacle.

I have run into far to many bios issues in the last 18 months are Hard Disk sizes increases where too many PC's with bios less than a year old won't recognize larger disks.

Keep in mind that, the physical RAM in the STB is limited. It is my belief that mapping of the physical size uses more memory for larger drives than smaller ones (virtual mapping in ram). Each stored program, also takes up space in a memory bank as seen by the programs stored in the list (even without the drive connected). The more memory that is used (actually all of it used, but gets cached around), the more likely that there will be a memory crash or error when recording or retrieving data and the system will be a bit slower to respond to commands. Although there appears to be no size limitations on the hardware, the STB was designed with an additional 160GB, or a max of 300GB additional storage connected. At 300GB, there are enough memory issues to know that there will be issues from time to time at this level. At 500GB I would expect them to be even worse, and at larger sizes, I would expect severe problems with memory usage and failure.
The current mantra is still "Use at own risk" and no cable co is officially supporting this feature or any devices connected to them.

vegggas

I've been using the 500GB Hitachi. Works fine. No problems to report.

I've just spent a long time reading a lot of info in this thread! Thanks for all the info.

Basically, I'm looking to get the 8300hd and the Maxtor 300 gig Quickview Expander. I know there are other methods that may be cheaper, etc, but I'm looking for the easiest possible solution, even if it costs me a bit more.

So, if I buy the QV Expander, does it come with everything I"ll need to make the connection? Or are there other cables I would need to buy?

Also, are the skipping problems, etc, common - or are just a few having them? And if it's common, is it enough to put the purchase on hold until things are resolved a bit more?

Thank you.

With the quickview expander, everything is included including step-by-step instructions (about 3 or 4). It is also a true eSATA 2 interface.
Open the box and follow the instructions - about 5 min total.

vegggas

How noisy is the 500 Gb Hitachi ?

Which enclosure are you using ?

thanks for the reply vegggas! Once I have everything setup, my next purchase will be the QV expander. Anxious to try it...

.... are the skipping problems, etc, common - or are just a few having them? And if it's common, is it enough to put the purchase on hold until things are resolved a bit more?If you have read the forum then you should have an idea about the degree of skipping problems. A poll has not been conducted so it is difficult to say if it is common, ie. 75% of users experience it. Some have reported trouble free operation.

I suspect that is a primarily a hardware problem with the 8300 so some resolution is highly unlikely until an updated or new box is released.

If you need the extra capacity, just go ahead and purchase and hope for the best. Periodic skipping is not the end of the world.

How noisy is the 500 Gb Hitachi ?

Which enclosure are you using ?

No noise at all. I'm using the following enclosure:

http://www.cooldrives.com/alexsaiiesdr.html

Its a eSATA enclosure and comes with an eSata to eSata cable. I have had no skipping problems at all.

No noise at all. I'm using the following enclosure:

http://www.cooldrives.com/alexsaiiesdr.html

Its a eSATA enclosure and comes with an eSata to eSata cable. I have had no skipping problems at all.
Well, it *looks* cool, but is it cool? It's totally enclosed with no fan.

If you have read the forum then you should have an idea about the degree of skipping problems. A poll has not been conducted so it is difficult to say if it is common, ie. 75% of users experience it. Some have reported trouble free operation.

I suspect that is a primarily a hardware problem with the 8300 so some resolution is highly unlikely until an updated or new box is released.

If you need the extra capacity, just go ahead and purchase and hope for the best. Periodic skipping is not the end of the world.

I like this response. :)

I've noted that skipping seems to be more an issue of the amount of simultaneous activity - there is more skipping when I am recording two HD programs while watching a third. I have few skips when I record a single HD program (overnight). I've also noted that I seem to have somewhat fewer skipping problems when recording on the external drive (Maxtor 250GB 7200rpm SATA w/16Mb buffer) than the internal drive (a 5400rpm unit).

Well, it *looks* cool, but is it cool? It's totally enclosed with no fan.

The enclosure is warm to the touch. The enclosure wouldn't be cool, but it shouldn't be hot either. The enclosure is not completely enclosed, the bottom has vents. I will admit that I am a little concerned about heat and am looking for an alternate case, but at the same time it doesn't seem to be any hotter than my pc gets on the inside with fans. I don't like the case that others have posted from newegg here. I have my doubts that it would really be any cooler (temp-wise) than this one.

I am getting my 8300HD here in Columbus, Ohio tomorrow. Does the external SATA drive work on it?

You won't be adding an external drive to a time-warner 8300 box in Columbus. They use the passport software there and passport does not support an external drive for the time being.

I don't like the case that others have posted from newegg here. I have my doubts that it would really be any cooler (temp-wise) than this one. I can understand the looks issue - but how can you conclude that it wouldn't be cooler. It's not the case that counts - it's the drive inside that is the issue. As others (pepar) has pointed out before it is a issue of life of the drive. After some time of operation and the drive fails, will you blame it on the drive, the fact that the drive runs 24/7, or the fact that you did not keep the temperature of the drive itself down!

I don't think it'll be any cooler because of the position of the fan. Its on the bottom floor of the case. I'm assuming its blowing down and that it channels it out the back, does that work? I may just get one just to try it just for the hell of it though. 33 for the case, 15 for the cable.

Have had 2 - 8300's installed about 4 weeks ago. Am very satisfied with the quality and function.

I was encouraged to add drive capacity to the unit in my home theater when a crush of HD sports a few Sundays back caused major problems with lack of space.

I used the following components:

From New Egg:

Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JD 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822144154 $ 130.00 April 2005

E-POWER EP-301SA 3.5" SATA External Enclosure - Retail
Item #: N82E16817155903 $ 33.85 Oct 2005


From: www.SATACABLES.com.com

SS-1ESS 3ft. (1-Meter) eSATA to SATA Cable $ 15.99 Oct 2005

I had the 250G SATA drive left over from a HTPC project. If buying new, I would have gone for the a 300G version. It seems like the best value per Gig. The external case works great and I power it thru the same UPS I use to power the 8300. The fan noise is reasonable and the case temp in modest. Air flow in thru the small hole on the side and out the back near the bottom. I have it hidden, but it looks "cool" enough to sit almost anywhere.

I followed the instructions in the operating manual of the 8300 and warning posted here and all seems to be working just great.

My local installer said that the eSATA port would not work! Well he is paid to say that.

Hope my experience may encourage others to try. Great value for watching HD on my schedule. Also, Thanks to all others that offered support here.

Steve

At one point several weeks ago, Tiger Direct had a 300GB SATA drive for $89 after rebates.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1121653&CatId=0


Also for what it's worth, I discussed the 8300 external HD capacity with a very knowledgable tech person at Brighthouse/Tampa Bay last week. This one is overpriced, but good for those who aren't technical enough to turn on a light switch. This is what he said:

Check out the link below to see an eSATA drive that they are selling specifically for the SA8300. They say it works with all SARA systems and even comes with the right cable. However, they specifically say (about halfway down the page) that it is known to not be compatible with Brighthouse Cable. I'm assuming that is because somewhere Brighthouse is using another system but no changes are planned for this system.
Down at the bottom there is pictures of the cables you can click on.

Take a look:
http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.13/it.A/id.220/.f

I had the 250G SATA drive left over from a HTPC project. If buying new, I would have gone for the a 300G version. It seems like the best value per Gig.
Not that I'd totally ignore price, but maximizing storage space would be my main consideration. I would spring for a 500GB.

As vegggas has pointed out a few times, you also need to consider the overhead required ot format the drive. This is not a finite size, it varies with drive size. The formatted usable space may not be what you'd think it would be for a given drive size and this will affect the G/$ comp.

That said, I tend to agree with pepar, space would probably be the main consideration given your budget. :)

I picked up a SA8300HD today so I could help some friends I have recommended it to.

Has anyone tried to replace the internal 160GB Hard drive with a larger one? It appears the OS is on a 1 gig Partition (1) and the recordings are on a 152GB Partition 2.

Also, I recorded several programs testing this out. The prefences show I have used 24% of my space - but when I go into diagnostics, it shows 101GB out of 151GB are free. Those 2 numbers do not match up?????

As vegggas has pointed out a few times, you also need to consider the overhead required ot format the drive. This is not a finite size, it varies with drive size. The formatted usable space may not be what you'd think it would be for a given drive size and this will affect the G/$ comp.

That said, I tend to agree with pepar, space would probably be the main consideration given your budget. :)
I've seen capacity/capacity utilization/overhead numbers that are all over the place, but obviously larger drives have more overhead. Whether overhead space scales linearly or or, for some reason, exponentially, I don't know. But no one's put data out there that suggests a 400GB drive has less usable space than a 300GB drive, so . . MORE is MORE!

I picked up a SA8300HD today so I could help some friends I have recommended it to.

Has anyone tried to replace the internal 160GB Hard drive with a larger one? It appears the OS is on a 1 gig Partition (1) and the recordings are on a 152GB Partition 2.
I am not an alt-OS guy, but someone posted that the AVFS is a Linux format. If there's a "ghost" app for Linux, it may be possible to place the original drive's image onto a larger one. I can imagine, though, that is would put one in deep doo doo with one's cable provider.

Also, I recorded several programs testing this out. The prefences show I have used 24% of my space - but when I go into diagnostics, it shows 101GB out of 151GB are free. Those 2 numbers do not match up?????That may be because the 24% includes the 1-hour cache. Suffice it to say there is no direct correlation between the % used, free space, or the number of programs/hours that you can record. There are a lot of variables (SD/HD, compression, bandwidth, etc.) and the % used is just an indicator, kind of like your fuel guage, never accurate to the last drop. :)

And, if you are renting the 8300 from your cableco, you don't own it, and it would be unwise to open it up to exchange drives. There are rumors that the unit stops working if opened by unauthorized personnel, but I don't know that to be true. I don't think our Canadian friends who purchase their 8300's have opened it to try to replace the drive. The best route to more capacity is the SATA expansion discussed in this thread.

Does the MPEG Encoder stats on page 19 of the diagnostics showing 720x480 and a VBR of 4.85Mbps mean that this unit is down rezing the captured HD video to this lower resolution/bandwidth?

Does the 8300 capture the stream at the rate it was fed or does it compress it more prior to playback - ala HD-Lite.

Does the MPEG Encoder stats on page 19 of the diagnostics showing 720x480 and a VBR of 4.85Mbps mean that this unit is down rezing the captured HD video to this lower resolution/bandwidth?

Does the 8300 capture the stream at the rate it was fed or does it compress it more prior to playback - ala HD-Lite.
Those are the analog encoders. They have to take the analog singnal and encode it as digital, and that is the resolution with a VBR capped at 4.85Mbps. This has nothing to do with digital signals, which are recorded as the exact signal that comes down the line. The STB will, however, convert that signal to any resolution, upconverted or downconverted you want based on your settings.

vegggas

Those are the analog encoders. They have to take the analog singnal and encode it as digital, and that is the resolution with a VBR capped at 4.85Mbps. This has nothing to do with digital signals, which are recorded as the exact signal that comes down the line. The STB will, however, convert that signal to any resolution, upconverted or downconverted you want based on your settings.

vegggas

that makes perfect sense.

thanks


Now to get the Windows XP to work with the IEEE 1394 ports. This is really not working at all. Anyone have any ideas?

Ok, so I picked up the case with the fan that is on new egg that folks have posted here to compare it to the cooldrive fanless case. The outside of the case is definitely a lower temperature than the fanless case. But you CAN hear the fan. There is nothing wrong with the fan but you can hear it running. I wish there was a way to slow it down so it would be quieter.

Does the MPEG Encoder stats on page 19 of the diagnostics showing 720x480 and a VBR of 4.85Mbps mean that this unit is down rezing the captured HD video to this lower resolution/bandwidth?

Does the 8300 capture the stream at the rate it was fed or does it compress it more prior to playback - ala HD-Lite.

The received data streams are MPEG2 format whether OTA, CATV or SAT.
DVRs simply record the MPEG2 stream into a data file and stream it out later.

Nothing is changed from the original, except when you select a different output resolution.

PS: Analog channels must go through a MPEG2 Encoder within the DVR prior to being recorded.

Ok, so I picked up the case with the fan that is on new egg that folks have posted here to compare it to the cooldrive fanless case. The outside of the case is definitely a lower temperature than the fanless case. But you CAN hear the fan. There is nothing wrong with the fan but you can hear it running. I wish there was a way to slow it down so it would be quieter.
I find the fan to be very quiet. The fan on my RPTV is much louder.

If you have the case on a hard surface most of the sound you hear is probably a reflection. You could try putting the case on top of a piece of poster board or foam rubber.

I find the fan to be very quiet. The fan on my RPTV is much louder.

If you have the case on a hard surface most of the sound you hear is probably a reflection. You could try putting the case on top of a piece of poster board or foam rubber.

Its sitting on top of a glass shelf so yes, the sound is probably being reverb'd between the bottom of the case and the top of the glass shelf. I'll have to try different materials or maybe try and cusion the feet of the case.

Cons:
•interface looks like a Micro$oft product
•remote looks like Micro$oft designed it
•interface looks like a Micro$oft product Surely enough to return it.

Couldn't resist the very delayed response.

Hey guys, I currently own the dvr explorer 8300 hd cable box and would like add either a 300 or 500 gb hardrive to it. I currently have used up 68% of space on the cable box. What hardrives would you recomend, what enclosure would I need and what wires do I need to hook it up? Could you please post links to what I need. Thanks alot Stu

Just checking in to see if anyone has figured out how to combat the freeze/skip problem.

It seems to be getting worse on my 8300HD. I can deal with the skips but the program freezes for 15 seconds at a time. If I rewind past the freeze point and play back, it plays fine. This indicates the problem is on playback.

It used to be I got these issues only while the 8300HD was busy recording but now it happens even when watching a recorded program when the box is not doing anything else.

I would even replace the hard drive with a different model if I knew for sure it would make a difference. But there are people here with the same Maxtor (DiamondMax 10) drive not having the same issues.

Is this just a SARA bug and there's nothing we can do?

Just checking in to see if anyone has figured out how to combat the freeze/skip problem.

It seems to be getting worse on my 8300HD. I can deal with the skips but the program freezes for 15 seconds at a time. If I rewind past the freeze point and play back, it plays fine. This indicates the problem is on playback.

It used to be I got these issues only while the 8300HD was busy recording but now it happens even when watching a recorded program when the box is not doing anything else.

I would even replace the hard drive with a different model if I knew for sure it would make a difference. But there are people here with the same Maxtor (DiamondMax 10) drive not having the same issues.

Is this just a SARA bug and there's nothing we can do?
Just a thought here - is it possible that the deterioration is due to fragmantation? We have no way to look at the file structure, much less defrag it. That seems, to me, to be a flaw in the design. I know my computers slow down after not defragging for a month or two. I can't imagine NEVER defragging.

I thought this (long blanks) was an issue with error correction of data done by the drive? Quality drives use error correction to verify data is correct when there are recovery problems. The drives used SPECIFICALLY for the DVR's, including the supported Maxtor Quickview Expander kit (not just a Maxtor drive) disable that feature so that any errors are just a blip and keep going instead of a long delay trying to recover the data.
I had read that somewhere on Maxtors website, but I'm not sure where...

vegggas

It was discussed here somewhere, because I asked about the rate of soft errors and ended up with ~7 statistical blips per hour with HD bitrates, if I remember correctly.

Do the Maxtor drives store statistics about itself that could be recovered using their tools? I think I have seen some document in testing that some of this information could be recovered from even encrypted drives. So, that may be an avenue to see if the ECC algorithms are at fault here.

v/r,
C-F

Hey guys, I currently own the dvr explorer 8300 hd cable box and would like add either a 300 or 500 gb hardrive to it. I currently have used up 68% of space on the cable box. What hardrives would you recommend, what enclosure would I need and what wires do I need to hook it up? Could you please post links to what I need. Thanks alot Stu

Anyone? please help me, I've narrowed it down to 3 hardrives. The 300gb maxtor diamondmax 10, the 500 gb Hitachi Deskstar 7K500. and I'm also interested in the 500 gb Maxtor Diamondmax 11 but havent found any stores that sell it. Is it available yet? Anyone know when it'll become available? Would these hardrives work with my cable box? Thanks alot Stu.

I decided to go ahead and add an external hard drive, knowing that some others have experienced an increased level of skips and freezes after installation. I purchased the following components:
Hard drive - Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L300S0 300GB Serial ATA 7200RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer from ZipZoomFly
Enclosure - EXT SATA ENCLSR E-POWER EP-301SA from Newegg.com
Cable –SATA I to SATA II from SATACABLES.com
The installation was very simple and quick. Assembling the drive in the enclosure can easily be completed without instructions. I was more cautious about connecting the drive to the 8300HD and followed the instructions from the SFA web site very closely. Everything seems to be working as expected. Disk usage went from 80% to 27%. The fan in the drive enclosure is very quite. Day 1 looks good but I’ll post again if I experience any problems.
Thank you to all the previous external drive installers that have shared their results.

EDIT: It didn’t take very long to see the intermittent skips and pixelization with the external hard drive. The defects occur as often as every five minutes but only last for a second or so. I also played a recording that was made prior to installing the new drive and saw no defects. The defects I’m seeing are repeatable. If I rewind and play the section again they occur in the same place.
I now have to make the decision of whether or not the extra recording time is worth the occasional loss of quality.

Just checking in to see if anyone has figured out how to combat the freeze/skip problem.

It seems to be getting worse on my 8300HD. I can deal with the skips but the program freezes for 15 seconds at a time. If I rewind past the freeze point and play back, it plays fine. This indicates the problem is on playback.

It used to be I got these issues only while the 8300HD was busy recording but now it happens even when watching a recorded program when the box is not doing anything else.

I would even replace the hard drive with a different model if I knew for sure it would make a difference. But there are people here with the same Maxtor (DiamondMax 10) drive not having the same issues.

Is this just a SARA bug and there's nothing we can do?

I still am not seeing any of this after having recorded, deleted, played while 2 recording, played while one recording, watch live while one recording, etc. All combinations. It just all works fine. I pretty much record just HD content these days.

Anyone? please help me, I've narrowed it down to 3 hardrives. The 300gb maxtor diamondmax 10, the 500 gb Hitachi Deskstar 7K500. and I'm also interested in the 500 gb Maxtor Diamondmax 11 but havent found any stores that sell it. Is it available yet? Anyone know when it'll become available? Would these hardrives work with my cable box?

Any of those will work fine. I have the hitachi 500GB drive and have had no problems except the first one I got had bad bearings and was returned. 2nd one has been fine though.

Just a thought here - is it possible that the deterioration is due to fragmantation?
I doubt it. Fragmentation generally occurs on drives with smaller file sizes. Since the 8300HD is storing large files, fragmentation is not likely an issue.

In any case, it certainly wouldn't be caused by fragmentation on the external drive, since my 8300HD exhibited these problems since it was brand new.

I still am not seeing any of this after having recorded, deleted, played while 2 recording, played while one recording, watch live while one recording, etc. All combinations. It just all works fine. I pretty much record just HD content these days.

Which enclosure do you have?

I just might purchase an additional enclosure and different hard drive (I have the Maxtor DiamondMax 10 (6L300S0) just to see if it makes a difference. I could always use another 300GB on my computer anyway :)

I had the cooldrive enclosure for awhile but the heat scared me :)

I then got the newegg ugly case with the fan. I don't like it because of the fan noise but its definitley cooler.

But I didn't notice any problem as far as performance with either case.

Any of those will work fine. I have the hitachi 500GB drive and have had no problems except the first one I got had bad bearings and was returned. 2nd one has been fine though.

Thank you. What enclosure would I need with the Hitachi 500 gb hardrive? Anyone know where I can purchase the new Maxtor DiamondMax 11 hardrives? I assume that since my explorer 8300 hd cable box is Sata l then I'll need an Sata l to Sata ll cable? Could someone post a link to where I can purchase one? would this (http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cluster?btnG=Search+Froogle&hl=en&oid=5617974903975870939&pid=4844710272241659693&q=SATA+I+to+SATA+II+cable&scoring=p) one do the trick? Stu

The drives used SPECIFICALLY for the DVR's, including the supported Maxtor Quickview Expander kit (not just a Maxtor drive) disable that feature so that any errors are just a blip and keep going instead of a long delay trying to recover the data.I wonder if this is equivalent?I should have mentioned that "RE2" stands for RAID Edition 2. These drives are specifically designed for RAID-like applications, so don't run out and buy one for a desktop. Among the optimizations they've made are some tweaks to the motor or head control algorithms for vibration control in tightly-packed drive configurations, and they've also limited the amount of time that the drive will crank away trying over and over again to recover from a hard error (this prevents repeated controller errors from interfering with the RAID/Unraid data recovery process).UN-RAID Thread #483 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6431889&&#post6431889) #484 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6431942&&#post6431942) #486 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6432195&&#post6432195) Speaking about the Western Digital Caviar RE2 400 GB SATA 16MB Cache 7200 RPM (WD4000YR) (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=150467&Category_Code=SATAHardDrives) for $220.

edit: According to this SMART protocol reading software SMARTMon-UX (http://www.santools.com/smart/SMARTMONUX-Manual.pdf) (pg.17) it seems that IDE drives do not store the statistical information I asked about earlier.

v/r,
C-F

Has anyone tried the new Maxtor QuickView 500 series? It comes in 400GB and 500GB versions and apparently uses a new hard drive.

I am willing to bet the drive is identical to the DiamondMax 11, but the QuickView 500 data sheet says:

Improved user experience through dynamic stream detection

which makes me wonder if the firmware is somehow optimized for use with the SA8300HD, for example, more lenient error correction...

My problem with stutters and pixilation experienced when using external HDD seem to be resolved.

My first external Seagate 250 GB HDD had enough problems that I thought the HDD was bad, and it returned it for exchange. The replacement HDD was even worse. It caused stutters, freezes, and reboots. This was replaced by a Maxtor drive which worked quite well, but there is still the occasional stutter and pixilation. Some of these were repeatable when that section of the recording was replayed, but very often playback was fine. The original broadcast could have been the problem for the repeatable problems, or it could have happened during the recording.

I recently turned off the external Maxtor drive and found that recording and playback from the internal drive was perfect as expected, suggesting that the original broadcast was not the problem. I purchased and installed a cheap SATA controller for my PC, and connected the replacement Seagate drive that caused so many problems. After the install I partitioned and formatted the drive under XP (about 1 hour). This was followed by a “scan and attempt recovery of bad sectors” using the Properties and Tools function (about 5 hours). There was no log or report available from this activity.

The drive was then connected to the PVR. It was recognized and formatted in one step, no reboot required. Recording of two HD streams while playing back another was fine. Subsequent playback of the recorded programs was also fine. I will continue to monitor this situation over the next week, and will also try the same procedure on the Maxtor drive. It looks like I have joined ranks with those people who have not had problems with their external drive.

It appears that the HDD’s out the box from the manufacturer may have some bad sectors that would normally be identified and flagged when they are installed and formatted in a PC. The format function performed by the PVR takes about 20 seconds, so it must just be laying down some basic structures. It certainly cannot scan the entire drive during that short time.

So if you are having any pixilation or stutters with your external drive doing a full format and scan on your PC may clear them up. If you do this please report your results.

Hey guys. I have a question, is this (http://www.cruzsystems.com/(4fzeob55mx0o4azzouvb1c55)/Products/Comax/221303C.aspx) the wire that I need to hook up my explorer 8300 hd cable box to a 500 gb hardrive? It's the eSata to Sata 1.0 221303C cable. Thanks, Stu

here's what you need for a 8300HD External Drive :D

http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4350515

Complete kit HERE (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10408425&loc=101&sp=1)
or
Manufacturers website HERE (http://www.maxstore.com/qvx/)
This is the approved upgrade and expanded storage.

vegggas

Does anyone have any experience with swapping drives with 8300HD. I have two 300mb drives in the newegg enclosures. When one was nearly full, I swapped it with an empty one and recorded programs on it. Last night, I swapped back to the first drive but cannot access any of the recordings. I would appreciate any help. Thanks.

Complete kit HERE (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10408425&loc=101&sp=1)
or
Manufacturers website HERE (http://www.maxstore.com/qvx/)
This is the approved upgrade and expanded storage.

vegggas
Not sure what you mean by "approved upgrade." First of all, cable companies don't support the external SATA port at all. Also, I don't think Scientific Atlanta has actually approved the Maxtor QuickView as an offiically supported device.

Some on this thread have reported skipping and freezing problems with the QuickView, so I'm not sure this solution is any better than rolling your own with a SATA drive an enclosure (which you can do for $100 less than the QuickView).

Personally I am curious if the new QuickView 500 series will offer more stable performance. If so, they would be worth the extra money...

Not sure what you mean by "approved upgrade." First of all, cable companies don't support the external SATA port at all. Also, I don't think Scientific Atlanta has actually approved the Maxtor QuickView as an offiically supported device.

Some on this thread have reported skipping and freezing problems with the QuickView, so I'm not sure this solution is any better than rolling your own with a SATA drive an enclosure (which you can do for $100 less than the QuickView).

Personally I am curious if the new QuickView 500 series will offer more stable performance. If so, they would be worth the extra money...

The cable companies are not supporting the SATA connected devices and will not do any trouibleshooting of such devices since they are beyond their control. With that in mind, all cable companies HAVE tested and approved the Maxtor Quickview Expander as a valid storage expansion device for the 8300 series STB's. Scientific Atlanta approved the Maxtor Quickview Expander last January at CES with a press release and with followup at their website. They approve of Maxtor and one other manufacturer's expansion storage kit, but Maxtor has been the primary one used and accredited. SA only approves the direct eSATA to eSATA interface on specific DVR based drives that do NOT use error correcting software that attempts to re-read bad blocks, sectors, or corrupt data streams. This way an error shows as a blip instead of a long pause on the data stream.

vegggas

SA only approves the direct eSATA to eSATA interface on specific DVR based drives that do NOT use error correcting software that attempts to re-read bad blocks, sectors, or corrupt data streams. This way an error shows as a blip instead of a long pause on the data stream.
The show must go on!

Does anyone have any experience with swapping drives with 8300HD. I have two 300mb drives in the newegg enclosures. When one was nearly full, I swapped it with an empty one and recorded programs on it. Last night, I swapped back to the first drive but cannot access any of the recordings. I would appreciate any help. Thanks.

I was under the impression (from somewhere) and it could be the wrong impression, but thought it had been infered that you could only have AN external Hard Drive and not an endless supply.

I was lead to believe that the 8300HD encrypts itself to that hard drive - and once you change Hard Drives, that encryption changes so the first drive is no longer valid with that or any other 8300HD.

Again, that could be wrong, but that was my impression. Otherwise, people would be buying cheaper 250GB Hard Drives instead of a 500GB Hard Drive.

I read in an earlier post in this forum that someone is using different drives for different subjects and swaps them. I thought that the hard drive was encoded to a specific 8300 and that if you switched 8300's, you would lose all your recordings.

I was under the impression (from somewhere) and it could be the wrong impression, but thought it had been infered that you could only have AN external Hard Drive and not an endless supply.

I was lead to believe that the 8300HD encrypts itself to that hard drive - and once you change Hard Drives, that encryption changes so the first drive is no longer valid with that or any other 8300HD.

Again, that could be wrong, but that was my impression. Otherwise, people would be buying cheaper 250GB Hard Drives instead of a 500GB Hard Drive.
I don't know that it's the encryption so much as it would be the file access tables, but swapping external drives on our DVRs is an urban legend.

SA only approves the direct eSATA to eSATA interface on specific DVR based drives that do NOT use error correcting software that attempts to re-read bad blocks, sectors, or corrupt data streams. This way an error shows as a blip instead of a long pause on the data stream.
This makes perfect sense, but I'm not sure the Maxtor QV (current 300GB version) does this, since people are reporting the same freezing/skipping problems with this kit as with homegrown SATA solutions.

I'd be willing to pay more for the QV assuming that it does work better, but I haven't seen evidence of that.

On the other hand, the new QV 500 just might...

MikeAlletto:How long have you been using the hitachi Deskstar 7k500 and Have you had any performance problems so far with it (skips, freezes?) What enclosure did you end up using and where did you purchase the eSata to Sata cable?(Cruz?)

Stu

bump. I ordered this (http://www.netdata.net/ssproduct.asp?pf_id=10473886) esata to sata cable from netdata.net. anyone order from them? you guys who are using a 500 gb hardrive what enclosure did you get? I'll be ordering the Hitachi Deskstar 7k500 very soon. ALso how do I hook up the 500 gb sata hardrive to the enclosure, sorry but I've never done this before (what cables hook up from the enclosure to the sata hardrive?)

also is this a good enclosure for the Hitachi Deskstar 7k500? Slim Line Sata Hardrive enclosure (http://www.cwol.com/serial-ata/slim-line-sata-hard-drive-enclosure.htm). thanks for your help, stu

bump. I ordered this (http://www.netdata.net/ssproduct.asp?pf_id=10473886) esata to sata cable from netdata.net. anyone order from them? you guys who are using a 500 gb hardrive what enclosure did you get? I'll be ordering the Hitachi Deskstar 7k500 very soon. ALso how do I hook up the 500 gb sata hardrive to the enclosure, sorry but I've never done this before (what cables hook up from the enclosure to the sata hardrive?)

also is this a good enclosure for the Hitachi Deskstar 7k500? Slim Line Sata Hardrive enclosure (http://www.cwol.com/serial-ata/slim-line-sata-hard-drive-enclosure.htm). thanks for your help, stu

The enclosure mentioned might lack the cooling required for the 500GB drive. Look to get something with better cooling. Go to the Addonics.Com site and look at some of their enclosures. Some have two fans.

The enclosure mentioned might lack the cooling required for the 500GB drive. Look to get something with better cooling. Go to the Addonics.Com site and look at some of their enclosures. Some have two fans.
Do we have airflow numbers on the two cases? The two-fan unit may run them slower to reduce noise levels, but not actually move any more air.

I hope this is not too off-topic, but I think SA8300HD owners who are recording a lot of material may know the answer to this.

Is it posssible to output anamorphic 16:9 on the S-Video or Composit jacks so I can archive to DVD. When I try now, I get a letterboxed image in a 4:3 window. This works OK if I play back on a 4:3 set, but if I try to playback on a 16:9 set. I get a further letterboxed image.

Anyone have any success with this?

I don't believe so unless you have one of the DVD recorders that let's you control recording formats (Toshiba D-R2 is one I believe).

I hope this is not too off-topic, but I think SA8300HD owners who are recording a lot of material may know the answer to this.

Is it posssible to output anamorphic 16:9 on the S-Video or Composit jacks so I can archive to DVD. When I try now, I get a letterboxed image in a 4:3 window. This works OK if I play back on a 4:3 set, but if I try to playback on a 16:9 set. I get a further letterboxed image.

Anyone have any success with this?

No, the 8300 incorrectly assumes that anything connected to the composite or s-video ports are 4X3 only and letterbxes the image on those ports. I solved the issue by getting a Philips/magnavox brand DVD recorder. Most of theirs has a component connection that accepts 480i only. I then set my box to output 480i widescreen and 480i standard only. It works great.
I have the box connected to my plasma with HDMI and I use the components to the DVD recorder. The only downside is that I live with 480i most of the time. I only go through the trouble to change the settings when there is something "special" on that I want to see in 720P/1080i.

As videoguy mentioned in a PM, the problem with this approach is when you view the DVD on another player, it is again LB'd. One of the main uses for recording downconversions to DVD is to view them while traveling, etc., and that usually isn't done using the original recorder or one that controls the output format.

I hope this is not too off-topic, but I think SA8300HD owners who are recording a lot of material may know the answer to this.

Is it posssible to output anamorphic 16:9 on the S-Video or Composit jacks so I can archive to DVD. When I try now, I get a letterboxed image in a 4:3 window. This works OK if I play back on a 4:3 set, but if I try to playback on a 16:9 set. I get a further letterboxed image.

Anyone have any success with this?
I was researching this topic as well, as I just bought a Pioneer DVR-831H-S with the hopes of archiving some of my recorded programs. As larrimore said, the problem is that the 8300HD only outputs a 4:3 picture (ie letterboxed 16:9 picture) via s-vid. To my knowledge (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) there is no way to change this on the cable box. The only way to archive to DVD is to find a DVD recorder that has component inputs. I have contented myself with the full-letterboxed 16:9 image, as my TV has very good stretch modes which fill up the screen nicely. I also don't want to bother w/ having to switch the resolutions back and forth to view programs > 480i.

No, the 8300 incorrectly assumes that anything connected to the composite or s-video ports are 4X3 only and letterbxes the image on those ports. I solved the issue by getting a Philips/magnavox brand DVD recorder. Most of theirs has a component connection that accepts 480i only. I then set my box to output 480i widescreen and 480i standard only. It works great.
I have the box connected to my plasma with HDMI and I use the components to the DVD recorder. The only downside is that I live with 480i most of the time. I only go through the trouble to change the settings when there is something "special" on that I want to see in 720P/1080i.

There's really no "assuming" going on on the part of the 8300HD; s-video is 4:3, period. And standard definition.

Point for clarity.
On the other hand: the 16:9 HD signal could be SQUEEZE (d) into the 4:3 SD format much in the manner of the Pioneer Voyager STB, allowing the display to manipulate the image back to the correct aspect. That was very nice for the VCR, but I can record and playback in the SA box, so I do not archive to tape any more. Used DVD at the rental stores are cheaper and easier. I also watch most commercials :)

v/r,
C-F

Since installing my external SATA drive I’ve had to reboot the 8300HD about once a day in order for it to recognize the free drive space. The total drive space will show less than 30% usage but if I try to play or record something I get a ‘drive is full’ message. I also can’t pause or rewind anything live, when it is in this state. Rebooting corrects the problem for the remainder of the day. Has anyone else experienced this type of problem? The problem may not be related to the external SATA drive but I didn't have the problem until after I installed the external drive. I plan to disconnect the drive sometime this week to see if that corrects the problem.

There's really no "assuming" going on on the part of the 8300HD; s-video is 4:3, period. And standard definition.

S-Video Standard def yes, but 4:3 period... no. Lot's of 16x9 TV's are set up to accept widescreen via s-video. (Satellite TV boxes from both DirectTV and Dish and many early DVD players had no component outputs, but were able to output widescreen images)

vandu, have you tried a "hard" reboot or are you just unplugging/plugging the power cord?

pepar:

I'm confused by your comment. There are lots of SD wide screen movies broadcast on cable which can be watched via S-Video which are not 4:3. It's no different from watching a DVD over S-Video, where you get the proper letter-boxed aspect ratio.

I pass SD material to my Faroudja NRS via S-Video and it does a great job with digital cable channels or DVD, almost as good as HD.

vandu, have you tried a "hard" reboot or are you just unplugging/plugging the power cord?

I've been doing a hard reboot, holding the on/off button until I see the boot message. I don't see any difference in the boot times however. A reboot (hard or regular) usually takes about 5 minutes.

I've been doing a hard reboot, holding the on/off button until I see the boot message. I don't see any difference in the boot times however. A reboot (hard or regular) usually takes about 5 minutes.Just checking in case it might have made a difference.

This is a big thread... I am sorry if this question has been asked and answered before.

Can the external HD be read by a computer? Therefore, transfer the recorded content to a computer?

Also, Has anyone tried to connect the 8300HD to computer? I was hoping to copy the recorded contented to a computer even thought I doubt it would work. I connected via Firewire to a computer. XP did recognize the device but unable to install driver. I tried looking for the driver on SA's site, none available.

I guess my ultimate goal is to burn recorded content to CD/DVD. Is this possible?

Thank you!

pepar:

I'm confused by your comment. There are lots of SD wide screen movies broadcast on cable which can be watched via S-Video which are not 4:3. It's no different from watching a DVD over S-Video, where you get the proper letter-boxed aspect ratio.

I pass SD material to my Faroudja NRS via S-Video and it does a great job with digital cable channels or DVD, almost as good as HD.
The signal passed by s-video is 4:3. That there is 1.85:1, 2.35:1 or 2.40:1 image banded by bars within that 4:3 signal doesn't change that.

I've been doing a hard reboot, holding the on/off button until I see the boot message. I don't see any difference in the boot times however. A reboot (hard or regular) usually takes about 5 minutes.You should also try a complete power off. Turn off the PVR and unplug it for 30 seconds, same for the external HDD. The power up the HDD, and shortly after, plug in the PVR.

If this does not help you should reformat the HDD on a PC, does not matter what format. This should flag any bad sectors.

I was about to post exactly the same one.

Programs exist (http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=HDTV2DVD) to convert HD to DVD but only if a computer can access the external drive.


"This is a big thread... I am sorry if this question has been asked and answered before.

Can the external HD be read by a computer? Therefore, transfer the recorded content to a computer?

Also, Has anyone tried to connect the 8300HD to computer? I was hoping to copy the recorded contented to a computer even thought I doubt it would work. I connected via Firewire to a computer. XP did recognize the device but unable to install driver. I tried looking for the driver on SA's site, none available.

I guess my ultimate goal is to burn recorded content to CD/DVD. Is this possible?"



Thanks in advance!!!!

Can the external HD be read by a computer? Therefore, transfer the recorded content to a computer?

No.

This is a big thread... I am sorry if this question has been asked and answered before.

Can the external HD be read by a computer? Therefore, transfer the recorded content to a computer?

Also, Has anyone tried to connect the 8300HD to computer? I was hoping to copy the recorded contented to a computer even thought I doubt it would work. I connected via Firewire to a computer. XP did recognize the device but unable to install driver. I tried looking for the driver on SA's site, none available.

I guess my ultimate goal is to burn recorded content to CD/DVD. Is this possible?

Thank you!
The format used by the 8300HD is not a PC format, so PCs cannot "read" the drive. It would look unformatted to a PC. Furthermore, even it a PC could read the files, they are heavily encrypted.

Like MikeAlletto said: "No."

pepar:

I don't buy your statement, which is OT for this thread, of course. If S-Video is 4:3, how do you explain a 16:9 display with black bars at top and bottom but not at the sides? A 4:3 aspect would not do this. There is no loss of picture on the sides either. Aside from being a different colour space, S-Video acts exactly the same as component when it comes to aspect ratios.

I really must be missing something here.

pepar:

I don't buy your statement, which is OT for this thread, of course. If S-Video is 4:3, how do you explain a 16:9 display with black bars at top and bottom but not at the sides? A 4:3 aspect would not do this. There is no loss of picture on the sides either. Aside from being a different colour space, S-Video acts exactly the same as component when it comes to aspect ratios.

I really must be missing something here.

A 4:3 aspect WOULD do this if your display "stretches" SD content. If the SD content is letterboxed (i.e. a movie in original aspect ratio), then what is being sent is 4:3 content with black bars at top and bottom. Your display would then stretch the content to fill the screen. You'd still see black bars at top and bottom if the content is more horizontal to vertical than 16:9 (i.e. 2.35:1). If your display is not stretching SD content, then this goes out the window...

pepar:

I don't buy your statement, which is OT for this thread, of course. If S-Video is 4:3, how do you explain a 16:9 display with black bars at top and bottom but not at the sides? A 4:3 aspect would not do this. There is no loss of picture on the sides either. Aside from being a different colour space, S-Video acts exactly the same as component when it comes to aspect ratios.

I really must be missing something here.
First of all, Jim, my statement was not for sale; it was free and worth every penny! ;-)

It is a 4:3 image that has a 16:9 image banded by two black bars. The black bars are part of the 4:3 image. And the corollary - if your 8300HD and 16:9 display are set to "normal" picture, you see a 4:3 image banded on either side by black/grey bars. The bars are part of the 16:9 image being sent by the 8300HD.

bcoombs:

No, my display is not stretching anything. The explanations about this make no sense to me, but it's time to end the debate, in this thread at least.

bcoombs:

No, my display is not stretching anything. The explanations about this make no sense to me, but it's time to end the debate, in this thread at least.
Whatever. I didn't know we were "debating." I thought I was trying to explain it.

pepar:

I don't buy your statement, which is OT for this thread, of course. If S-Video is 4:3, how do you explain a 16:9 display with black bars at top and bottom but not at the sides? A 4:3 aspect would not do this. There is no loss of picture on the sides either. Aside from being a different colour space, S-Video acts exactly the same as component when it comes to aspect ratios.

I really must be missing something here.

Jim,

I think the issue is how the display is set up to treats a 480i NTSC signal. By definition, it is 4:3. If it is a letterbox image (your example) then black bars are transmitted at the top and bottom. I have heard of some displays that recognize those black bars and automatically ZOOM the image to fill the screen. Also, many users set up their burn-in sensitive widescreen displays to either stretch or Zoom SD signals.

Of course, another signal (72fps for example) could be sent out of S-video of a device, but virtually all devices sold in North America (yes, even Canada) send out 60fps 4:3.

You should also try a complete power off. Turn off the PVR and unplug it for 30 seconds, same for the external HDD. The power up the HDD, and shortly after, plug in the PVR.
What happens to all your recorded programs when you do this? I thought the reason we needed external enclosures with fans was because we are never to turn off the external hard drives, and we need the fans to keep the hard drives cool. If my understanding is accurate, but if no programming is lost when the external hard drive is turned off, then why is it necessary to keep it running constantly?

I may be confused, and if so, someone help me out here, but I distinctly remember someone's saying that he wasn't concerned about having to keep the hard drive running, because he bought a Seagate with a 5 year warranty. I did the same. When the internal hard drive on my 8300 died, I lost all the recorded programs on it, but it actually failed--it was not simply powered off. If the internal hard drive can be powered off and not lose its recorded programs, then why does the same not apply to the external hard drive?

Many thanks!

What happens to all your recorded programs when you do this? I thought the reason we needed external enclosures with fans was because we are never to turn off the external hard drives, and we need the fans to keep the hard drives cool. If my understanding is accurate, but if no programming is lost when the external hard drive is turned off, then why is it necessary to keep it running constantly?

I may be confused, and if so, someone help me out here, but I distinctly remember someone's saying that he wasn't concerned about having to keep the hard drive running, because he bought a Seagate with a 5 year warranty. I did the same. When the internal hard drive on my 8300 died, I lost all the recorded programs on it, but it actually failed--it was not simply powered off. If the internal hard drive can be powered off and not lose its recorded programs, then why does the same not apply to the external hard drive?

Many thanks!
The DVR and external drives only need to be "on" when a scheduled recording is about to happen. Nothing is lost if they are powered down. Starting and stopping a hard drive is thought to be harder on it than continuous operation. So, keeping them on all the time, assuming they're kept cool, is better for them and more convenient than trying to remember to turn them on and off.

BTW, when your 8300HD is "off" only the display and A/V outputs are off; the drive is still running and the circuitry - tuners, processor, memory, etc - is still powered.

To take what pepar says one step further: It is possible to power down the external hard drive - IF (and only IF) the 8300 is also powered down (I mean unplugged). So if you connect both the external drive and the 8300 to a power switch, you can turn both off at night and both back on 10 minutes or so before the first program is to be recorded. As the 8300 will go through it's boot sequence everytime it is powered up it will be 5 minutes or so until it can be used. The external HD needs to be up and spinning before the 8300 tries to access it. The boot sequence is long enough so that the external drive is ready when the 8300 looks for it.

For most, this is too much of a hassle - so leave it powered up.

To take what pepar says one step further: It is possible to power down the external hard drive - IF (and only IF) the 8300 is also powered down (I mean unplugged). So if you connect both the external drive and the 8300 to a power switch, you can turn both off at night and both back on 10 minutes or so before the first program is to be recorded. As the 8300 will go through it's boot sequence everytime it is powered up it will be 5 minutes or so until it can be used. The external HD needs to be up and spinning before the 8300 tries to access it. The boot sequence is long enough so that the external drive is ready when the 8300 looks for it.

For most, this is too much of a hassle - so leave it powered up.
This is an excellent point, davehancock! When an external drive is attached, it and the 8300HD become ONE UNIT and need to be treated as such.

To take what pepar says one step further: It is possible to power down the external hard drive - IF (and only IF) the 8300 is also powered down (I mean unplugged). So if you connect both the external drive and the 8300 to a power switch, you can turn both off at night and both back on 10 minutes or so before the first program is to be recorded. As the 8300 will go through it's boot sequence everytime it is powered up it will be 5 minutes or so until it can be used. The external HD needs to be up and spinning before the 8300 tries to access it. The boot sequence is long enough so that the external drive is ready when the 8300 looks for it.

For most, this is too much of a hassle - so leave it powered up.
Thanks, Pepar, for the initial response, and thanks for the clarification, Dave! I have not turned my external HD off since installing it, and I have not had to reboot the 8300, so I don't have a problem--yet. I was most concerned about what would happen in the event of a power failure, and if I understand what you are saying, when the power comes back on, the external HD will certainly be up and spinning long before the 8300 finishes the reboot and attempts to access it. In this event, no recorded programs should be lost--only those that were scheduled to be recorded while the power was out. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I think this also answers my question about a hard reboot of the 8300. I can unplug the 8300 without unplugging the external HD, right? Just leave the drive running, and then replug the 8300 which will then go through the boot process, and look for the external drive. I guess this also holds true during a firmware upgrade and a soft reboot for the 8300. Surely do hope so, because we are looking for the SARA upgrade this month that will correct so many annoying features!

Thanks again for the responses!

Linda

Linda (Scarett),

You are correct on all assumptions. When the 8300 reboots and properly recognizes the external drive - you will get a message telling you that it sees that you have an external drive. Hit the exit button to get rid of the message.

Incidently, a while ago I accidently disconnected power to my external HD. Nothing major happened (all was fine after a reboot) - the the list reflected programs that should be there on the ext drive. If I tried to play these programs, nothing happened (blank screen). I don't know what happens if the 8300 made a recording while the drive was not available. I assume that it would do that on the internal drive.

Linda (Scarlett),

You are correct on all assumptions. When the 8300 reboots and properly recognizes the external drive - you will get a message telling you that it sees that you have an external drive. Hit the exit button to get rid of the message.

Incidently, a while ago I accidently disconnected power to my external HD. Nothing major happened (all was fine after a reboot) - the the list reflected programs that should be there on the ext drive. If I tried to play these programs, nothing happened (blank screen). I don't know what happens if the 8300 made a recording while the drive was not available. I assume that it would do that on the internal drive.
Dave, it's good to know that I am correct about something! But now I am curious about something else: How can you tell that a program should have been on the external drive--as opposed to the internal drive? I am assuming that all of my programs are being recorded to the external drive, because it has the most space available, but I also know that some of the early movies that I recorded are still on the internal drive, because they were recorded before I installed the external drive.

How long was your external drive disconnected? Are you saying that you had programs scheduled to record during the time it was disconnected, and that they are listed on the Recorded List as if they were recorded during the down time? Or, are you saying that you actually lost all of the programs that had been recorded on the external drive prior to the accidental disconnection? If the former, then your assumption, i.e., that a recording scheduled while the external drive was not available would then be recorded on the internal drive, does not seem correct--if it recorded to the internal drive, you should not get the blank screen and should be able to watch it. If the latter, then why would that occur? Maybe the drive was reformatted when it was reconnected? A more likely scenario is that I am simply confused again and have completely misunderstood what you are saying! Maybe you are describing the 8300's behavior before you discovered that the external drive had been accidentally disconnected?

I am so happy with my external drive that I am planning to add one to my upstairs DVR--which I traded for an 8300HD in order to get the 160GB internal drive. (Remember, I had the 8300SD version with an 80GB HD.) I just received my second Apricorn external SATA HD enclosure today. It is more expensive ($63) than most of the enclosures, but it is beautiful, it has a fan, and it never gets hot or even warm to the touch! I love my Seagate hard drive, but I have a Western Digital SATA drive that I will use in this enclosure until I can afford to buy a 500GB Seagate. Hopefully, it will perform as reliably as my Seagate has. Can someone who is using a 500GB HD tell me what the overhead is? With my 300GB Seagate, I lost 21GB, or 7%.

On a different subject, how successful has Record to DVD (as opposed to VCR) been for those who have tried it? Buy.com has a standalone Sony DVR on sale for $139, and I thought I might ask Santa Claus to bring me one. I know that it doesn't have component or composite outputs--just S-Video and RCA--but it will record in all formats and is also dual-layer capable. From the reviews, I understand that the DVDs will not play back from the recorder through the TV, and that seems a little odd. Anyone know what would cause that? They will play on a computer or another DVD player, however. I am running out of ports on my TV! Is there another DVR that doesn't have this anomaly that anyone can recommend for the Record to DVD feature?

Once again, many thanks for all your help!

Linda

How can you tell that a program should have been on the external drive--as opposed to the internal drive? I am assuming that all of my programs are being recorded to the external drive, because it has the most space available, but I also know that some of the early movies that I recorded are still on the internal drive, because they were recorded before I installed the external drive.
Sorry, but you can't. Some enclosures have an indicator that blink when the drive is active - but most do not. You may also be able to hear the drive and it will likely sound different than the internal one. Ultimately, the external drive will catch up and get just as full as the internal drive and then the 8300 will split the recordings between the two.

How long was your external drive disconnected? Are you saying that you had programs scheduled to record during the time it was disconnected, and that they are listed on the Recorded List as if they were recorded during the down time? Or, are you saying that you actually lost all of the programs that had been recorded on the external drive prior to the accidental disconnection? If the former, then your assumption, i.e., that a recording scheduled while the external drive was not available would then be recorded on the internal drive, does not seem correct--if it recorded to the internal drive, you should not get the blank screen and should be able to watch it. If the latter, then why would that occur? Maybe the drive was reformatted when it was reconnected? A more likely scenario is that I am simply confused again and have completely misunderstood what you are saying! Maybe you are describing the 8300's behavior before you discovered that the external drive had been accidentally disconnected?
I probably gave too much info. I don't think any recordings were scheduled while the drive was disconnected. I don't know how long it was disconnected. It could have been days or just hours. All I was trying to point out that disconnecting it did not result in permanent loss of content. While it was disconnected the List still showed programs that were supposed to be available. When I tried to play one of these, I just got a blank (thats how I discovered it was disconnected). After connecting the drive again and rebooting the 8300 everything was fine.

On a different subject, how successful has Record to DVD (as opposed to VCR) been for those who have tried it? Buy.com has a standalone Sony DVR on sale for $139, and I thought I might ask Santa Claus to bring me one. I know that it doesn't have component or composite outputs--just S-Video and RCA--but it will record in all formats and is also dual-layer capable. From the reviews, I understand that the DVDs will not play back from the recorder through the TV, and that seems a little odd. Anyone know what would cause that? They will play on a computer or another DVD player, however. I am running out of ports on my TV! Is there another DVR that doesn't have this anomaly that anyone can recommend for the Record to DVD feature?

Once again, many thanks for all your help!

Linda

I have a Sony RDR-GX300 DVD recorder and it works fine with the 8300HD. I use the S-Video connection. I know some models of Sony have an issue recording from the 8300. Those Sony units think that all programs from the 8300 is copy protected and therefore won't record. I also know that the Sima GoDVD (available for about $100 from CompUSA) will fix the problem. I would say that if you are not willing to spend the $100 (sometimes it is on sale for about $60) then make sure that you can take the Sony back if it does not record properly from the 8300. Incidently, I don't use the copy to VCR function. The reasons are due to the way my system is wired rather than any problems with the copy function.

pepar:

I don't buy your statement, which is OT for this thread, of course. If S-Video is 4:3, how do you explain a 16:9 display with black bars at top and bottom but not at the sides? A 4:3 aspect would not do this. There is no loss of picture on the sides either. Aside from being a different colour space, S-Video acts exactly the same as component when it comes to aspect ratios.

I really must be missing something here.

This is because most widescreen displays automatically stretch 4X3 material to fill the screen. It is also stretching the bars accross the screen as well. The bars shouldn't even be there on most widescreen TV programming unless it is a 2.35:1 movie.

This is because most widescreen displays automatically stretch 4X3 material to fill the screen. It is also stretching the bars accross the screen as well. The bars shouldn't even be there on most widescreen TV programming unless it is a 2.35:1 movie.
Jim and I stepped outside and settled this like gentlemen. :)

Jim and I stepped outside and settled this like gentlemen. :)

Yes, we did and pepar straightened me out. :)

Pepar's statement about S-Video being 4:3 is correct. The confusion on my part comes from the fact that when DVD players and boxes like the 8300HD are set to output a 16:9 picture, they are actually forcing a 4:3 image into a 16:9 aspect ratio.

The basic fact remains that the original NTSC signal is 4:3, which he was patiently explaining to me. :o

Another stand-alone supplier (in addition to the Maxtor QuickView):

Netegriti eSATA drive for Scientific Atlanta 8300/8300HD

250GB - $199.95
http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.12/it.A/id.220/.f

160GB - $159.95
http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.12/it.A/id.249/.f

Another stand-alone supplier (in addition to the Maxtor QuickView):

Netegriti eSATA drive for Scientific Atlanta 8300/8300HD

250GB - $199.95
http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.12/it.A/id.220/.f

160GB - $159.95
http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.12/it.A/id.249/.f
IMHO, adding anything less than 300GB is a waste. And while one is at it, why not go for 400GB or 500GB?

And I'm wondering about them calling it "Scientific Atlanta 8300HD 250GB DVR Upgrade." Tested and approved by SA? Licensed by SA? Just trying to ride SA's coat tails? They've clearly lifted copy from SA; I recognize the "Recordings are balanced between the internal hard drive on the 8300HD and the external SATA drive as follows:" text. Could be some copyright violations here . . .

And I'm wondering about them calling it "Scientific Atlanta 8300HD 250GB DVR Upgrade."Probably because just about the only people looking for small-scale (non RAID) external SATAII drives are 8300HD users ...

They're just bundling drive/enclosure/cable ... pre-installing drive into enclsure ... and selling it as a single bundle.

Edit: Maxtor explicitly markets the QVX as "Expansion Storage for the SA Explorer 8300"
http://www.weaknees.com/pdf/QVX_datasheet.pdf

Probably because just about the only people looking for small-scale (non RAID) external SATAII drives are 8300HD users ...

They're just bundling drive/enclosure/cable ... pre-installing drive into enclsure ... and selling it as a single bundle.
I'm not wondering why. I'm wondering how they can legally do it.

I'm not wondering why. I'm wondering how they can legally do it.For the same reasons someone can sell a "Dell Inspiron 4000 Memory Upgrade" or "Honda S2000 Turbo Kit" or whatever add-on products for whatever name-brand products ...

Although ... yes ... they should include the trademark symbol for SciAtl and appropriate legal jargon.

Gotcha!

I have an important question.

I have a SA 8300 and want to know if it is possible to record programming, NBA Basketball games, onto a DVD recorder?

I'm in the military and am moving to Germany soon.

Thanks in advance!

I have an important question.

I have a SA 8300 and want to know if it is possible to record programming, NBA Basketball games, onto a DVD recorder?

I'm in the military and am moving to Germany soon.

Thanks in advance!

yes

any reason not to buy this enclosure:

http://www.satasite.com/esata-3-5-hard-drive-case.htm

and load it with this Hitachi 500GB drive?

http://www.firewire-1394.com/hitachi-sata-ii-hard-drives.htm

The Maxtor 300GB is too small for all the HD I want to store, and I can't find the Seagate eSATA 400GB model retail.

I know it's not officially sanctioned by Scientific Atlanta, but is seems to be a good drive/enclosure combo with decent bang for the buck.

-gil

any reason not to buy this enclosure:

http://www.satasite.com/esata-3-5-hard-drive-case.htm

and load it with this Hitachi 500GB drive?l
No fan and no visible vents leads me to wonder how effective the cooling is.

No fan and no visible vents leads me to wonder how effective the cooling is.
Seeing as it has an external power supply, is that as important? Does the drive run hot?

I have seen some enclosures with large fans, I worry about the noise.

-gil

Seeing as it has an external power supply, is that as important? Does the drive run hot?

I have seen some enclosures with large fans, I worry about the noise.

-gil
The drive will generate heat. And being "on" 24/7/365, its life could be short if it is not kept cool. We've had this debate on this thread before and I am in the "why take the chance" camp. Here's an enclosure at Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817155903) that is popular with some posting on this thread. It has a SATA connector on the back, so you'd need to get the appropriate cable.

Here's the case opened. (http://www.peparsplace.com/html/21.html)

The drive will generate heat. And being "on" 24/7/365, its life could be short if it is not kept cool. <snip> Here's the case opened.[/URL]Thanks. That case looks a little cheezy, but the fan in the bottom looks like a smart solution.

I don't know what is holding up Maxtor offerng 400 or 500GB version of their QuickView, nor Seagate making their new 400GB eSATA available retail.

I don't know what is holding up Maxtor offerng 400 or 500GB version of their QuickView
A cynical person would say they are trying to sell 300GB drives for a premium.

A cynical person would say they are trying to sell 300GB drives for a premium.Hey, I'm as cynical as they come - so charge me a bigger premium for a bigger drive!! Seems like they are missing an opportunity, as I'll now most likely build my own 500GB.

Hey, I'm as cynical as they come - so charge me a bigger premium for a bigger drive!! Seems like they are missing an opportunity, as I'll now most likely build my own 500GB.
In the grand scheme of things, we who have the expertise to do this sort of thing are but a very small minority and have virtually no impact on the kind of business decision/plan that has Maxtor selling "only" 300GB Quickview Expanders. They have positioned it masterfully and DVR users - mostly the non-techie kind (and a few here on this thread) - are snapping them up. When their sales numbers begin to plateau, they will bump up the size and do another round of promotion. Rinse and repeat.

Okay, this one looks sweet, has FW 400 and 800 and USB in addiditon to eSATA connectivity. It runs cool, is fanless so it is quiet and it's available with the new Hitachi 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA drive for 250 hours (!) of HD programming:

http://www.g-technology.com/Products/G-DRIVEQ.cfm

Okay, this one looks sweet, has FW 400 and 800 and USB in addiditon to eSATA connectivity. It runs cool, is fanless so it is quiet and it's available with the new Hitachi 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA drive for 250 hours (!) of HD programming:

http://www.g-technology.com/Products/G-DRIVEQ.cfm
It does look sweet! Nice retro appearance. For your reference, the 500GB drive can be had for $375, making the case an absurdly whopping $225. If one needs all the interface flexibility, this *may* be a good deal. If not, this case could probably be found for the $60-$75 that it's worth.

"IMHO, adding anything less than 300GB is a waste. And while one is at it, why not go for 400GB or 500GB?"


This is an excellent question. Let me start by pointing out that we are a storage specialist (primarily SCSI and SATA). We have plenty of SATA drives in stock, including the Seagate 400GB NCQ compliant 7.2K model (that one of the other users is looking for).

We have performed multi-week testing on our "8300HD approved" kits. As such, our 250GB and 160GB kits are GUARANTEED to be fully compatible with the 8300HD.

We have tried to find a large (over 300GB) SATA drive that works =reliably= with the 8300HD. So far we have experienced a variety of problems, the most common of which is that the drive goes off line intermittently (fixed with a cold reboot of the DVR). We had hoped to have a 400GB and 500GB bundle by now (to offer as an approved 8300HD upgrade). Our feeling is that this is an appliance, hence reliability is more important than capacity.

If you want to buy a large (400-500GB) drive from us, bundled with cable and enclosure, we will happily sell you one! (assembled or unassembled). However, we will not guarantee it to be compatible with the DVR. Its functionality will only be guaranteed with PCs.

Our conclusion is that the 8300HD's design is the limiting factor here, not some "conspiracy" by Maxtor to milk the market by only offering smaller drives.
If anyone has truly tested a large (400-500GB) capacity drive, that works (long term) we would be very excited to conduct our own testing, with a view to offering it to the market.

That said, we are offering greater value than Maxtor. Scientific Atlanta clearly document that 7.2K drives will be required for the Multi-Room feature (when activated). Maxtor Quickview Expander drives are 5.4K RPM, ours are 7.2K. Also, we've noticed that 5.4K drives have a propensity to display video glitches when recording two programs and playing a third. This is mostly eliminated by the 7.2K drives we offer. Of course, our prices are lower also, plus we offer real-time actual cost FedEx shipping rates.

Since, I'm rambling, I may as well mention the fan/fanless enclosure consideration. We too would LOVE to offer a fanless enclosure. However, our experience shows that only the most substantial (hundreds of dollars!) cases can reliably handle the heat dissipation required to maintain the longevity of drive. Over the life span of the hard drive/DVR these drives are really going to get a work-out. This type of application really generates heat, and no-one wants their drive cooked. We've tested and sourced cases with high-quality fans that make minimal noise. You can hear a light hum in a perfectly silent room. However, as soon as you turn the TV on, even at low volumes, you'd be unaware of the fan. I live with one in my home theatre and it's fine.

In conclusion, we'd really like our customers to understand that we're not just taking any external SATA drive and pretending it's for the 8300HD. We're actually investing time and money to find solutions that work! We'd love to make them better and bigger, and look forward to your input.

We have performed multi-week testing on our "8300HD approved" kits. As such, our 250GB and 160GB kits are GUARANTEED to be fully compatible with the 8300HD.

We have tried to find a large (over 300GB) SATA drive that works =reliably= with the 8300HD. So far we have experienced a variety of problems, the most common of which is that the drive goes off line intermittently (fixed with a cold reboot of the DVR). We had hoped to have a 400GB and 500GB bundle by now (to offer as an approved 8300HD upgrade). Our feeling is that this is an appliance, hence reliability is more important than capacity.

Our conclusion is that the 8300HD's design is the limiting factor here, not some "conspiracy" by Maxtor to milk the market by only offering smaller drives.
If anyone has truly tested a large (400-500GB) capacity drive, that works (long term) we would be very excited to conduct our own testing, with a view to offering it to the market.

Any thoughts on what could be different about the larger drives that would cause this? Do you have any contacts at SA who could shed some light on this?

Thank you for the incredibly informative post!

post problems, see below -- sorry

Jesse,

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain the reliability of the different SATA drives and enclosures that you sell.

I don't know if you have tested the Hitachi 500GB SATAII 7200 RPM 16MB Buffer 8ms HDD yet or not but several members of this forum have. They have reported excellent results with them.

I believe that there are two main problem with the SATA drives as reported here:

1.
That's just one, joepic. :)

This is an excellent question. Let me start by pointing out that we are a storage specialist (primarily SCSI and SATA). We have plenty of SATA drives in stock, including the Seagate 400GB NCQ compliant 7.2K model (that one of the other users is looking for).

We have performed multi-week testing on our "8300HD approved" kits. As such, our 250GB and 160GB kits are GUARANTEED to be fully compatible with the 8300HD.

We have tried to find a large (over 300GB) SATA drive that works =reliably= with the 8300HD. So far we have experienced a variety of problems, the most common of which is that the drive goes off line intermittently (fixed with a cold reboot of the DVR). We had hoped to have a 400GB and 500GB bundle by now (to offer as an approved 8300HD upgrade). Our feeling is that this is an appliance, hence reliability is more important than capacity.

If you want to buy a large (400-500GB) drive from us, bundled with cable and enclosure, we will happily sell you one! (assembled or unassembled). However, we will not guarantee it to be compatible with the DVR. Its functionality will only be guaranteed with PCs.

Our conclusion is that the 8300HD's design is the limiting factor here, not some "conspiracy" by Maxtor to milk the market by only offering smaller drives.
If anyone has truly tested a large (400-500GB) capacity drive, that works (long term) we would be very excited to conduct our own testing, with a view to offering it to the market.

That said, we are offering greater value than Maxtor. Scientific Atlanta clearly document that 7.2K drives will be required for the Multi-Room feature (when activated). Maxtor Quickview Expander drives are 5.4K RPM, ours are 7.2K. Also, we've noticed that 5.4K drives have a propensity to display video glitches when recording two programs and playing a third. This is mostly eliminated by the 7.2K drives we offer. Of course, our prices are lower also, plus we offer real-time actual cost FedEx shipping rates.

Since, I'm rambling, I may as well mention the fan/fanless enclosure consideration. We too would LOVE to offer a fanless enclosure. However, our experience shows that only the most substantial (hundreds of dollars!) cases can reliably handle the heat dissipation required to maintain the longevity of drive. Over the life span of the hard drive/DVR these drives are really going to get a work-out. This type of application really generates heat, and no-one wants their drive cooked. We've tested and sourced cases with high-quality fans that make minimal noise. You can hear a light hum in a perfectly silent room. However, as soon as you turn the TV on, even at low volumes, you'd be unaware of the fan. I live with one in my home theatre and it's fine.

In conclusion, we'd really like our customers to understand that we're not just taking any external SATA drive and pretending it's for the 8300HD. We're actually investing time and money to find solutions that work! We'd love to make them better and bigger, and look forward to your input.


Jesse,

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain the reliability of the different SATA drives and enclosures that you sell.

I don't know if you have tested the Hitachi 500GB SATAII 7200 RPM 16MB Buffer 8ms HDD yet or not but several members of this forum have. They have reported excellent results with them.

I believe that there are two main problems with the SATA drives as reported here:

1. Drives go off line intermittently
Problem - heat or communications failure to the 8300?
Solution - better cooling?

2. When recording 2 sessions and watching a third show, the drive skips or freezes up.
Problem - drive performance?
Solution - one forum user formatted his SATA drive on the PC to find bad sectors then reformatted on the 8300. This solved his problem.

Another possible performance issue is the 5400 RPM SATA 1 vs the 7200 RPM SATA 2 drives. To my knowledge this idea has not been mentioned in this forum. The Hitachi is a 7200 RPM SATA 2 drive which may solve this problem.

I am curious as to your experience in these areas for testing a product that you sell?

Thanks for your input

David

one forum user formatted his SATA drive on the PC to find bad sectors then reformatted on the 8300. This solved his problem.
I think he just got lucky as a drive formatted by a PC would look unformatted by the 8300HD. Unless the PC somehow flagged the bad sectors in the drives firmware.

Another contender?

http://www.seagate.com/pdf/marketing/PO-Cuda7200.9.pdf

DiscounTech's comments not withstanding, at some point these 500GB drives will have to work as well as the 300GB ones - mechanically they are very similar.

-gil

Our testing of the "drive going offline intermittently" problem seems to suggest that the issue is a function of the firmware. There's been no indication that this is a cooling issue. For competitive reasons I'm not at liberty to share all our findings. But suffice to say, we've never found a Non-Maxtor drive that truly works 100%. So currently the limit is the fact that Maxtor aren't making 400 or 500GB drives. We've primarily tested Maxtor, Western Digital and Seagate.

Have the Hitachi 500GB drives been going offline at all? If someone who uses one can confirm that they've never seen it go offline, we'll bring in all the Hitachi models pronto and perform integration testing. Aside from our products, you have no idea how much I want a gigantic drive at home! =)

Low level formatting of drives, or surface integrity tests can indeed remap the drive so that bad blocks are ignored. Bad blocks can indeed cause drive performance issues. My feeling is that 3 simultaneous streams are literally at the edge of the performance envelope for a 5.4K RPM drive. 7.2K drives can acheive a higher sustained throughput and alleviate the drop out issue. However, users may well be seeing a mixture of both variables.

Another contender?

DiscounTech's comments not withstanding, at some point these 500GB drives will have to work as well as the 300GB ones - mechanically they are very similar.

-gil

Gil, you're right. Surely it only has to be a matter of time. However, I believe that the ball is firmly in Scientific Atlanta's court. There's no physical reason that all of the drives shouldn't work. I suspect the solution is in an update to the SARA software.

Our testing of the "drive going offline intermittently" problem seems to suggest that the issue is a function of the firmware. There's been no indication that this is a cooling issue. For competitive reasons I'm not at liberty to share all our findings. But suffice to say, we've never found a Non-Maxtor drive that truly works 100%. So currently the limit is the fact that Maxtor aren't making 400 or 500GB drives. We've primarily tested Maxtor, Western Digital and Seagate.

Have the Hitachi 500GB drives been going offline at all? If someone who uses one can confirm that they've never seen it go offline, we'll bring in all the Hitachi models pronto and perform integration testing. Aside from our products, you have no idea how much I want a gigantic drive at home! =)

Low level formatting of drives, or surface integrity tests can indeed remap the drive so that bad blocks are ignored. Bad blocks can indeed cause drive performance issues. My feeling is that 3 simultaneous streams are literally at the edge of the performance envelope for a 5.4K RPM drive. 7.2K drives can acheive a higher sustained throughput and alleviate the drop out issue. However, users may well be seeing a mixture of both variables.

From your testing of the SATA hard drives you have found:

Maxtor - works
Western Digital - fails
Seagate - fails
Hitachi - ?

When I say "fail" it means the product is NOT 100% reliable and not good for the general public.

I would be interesting to see the comments from users who have Western Digital and Seagate drives?

If users with WD, Seagate and Hitachi drives that truly work 100% could post the part number, and firmware code of their drives, that would be very helpful. We could bench test them. Perhaps they are using different models.

Have the Hitachi 500GB drives been going offline at all? If someone who uses one can confirm that they've never seen it go offline, we'll bring in all the Hitachi models pronto and perform integration testing. Aside from our products, you have no idea how much I want a gigantic drive at home! =)

I have a hitachi 500GB sata2 drive connected to my 8300HD box and have had zero problems. I've had it for about a month now I guess and have not turned it off or had to reboot the 8300. I record about a dozen shows a month and many times am recording 2 and watching a recorded one at the same time with no problems. The majority of stuff I record is all hidef material. The thing just works.

If users with WD, Seagate and Hitachi drives that truly work 100% could post the part number, and firmware code of their drives, that would be very helpful. We could bench test them. Perhaps they are using different models.

The Part Number and Firmware Code of the drives are found on the 8300 information screen or is some of this information located on the drive which would require taking it out of the case? I live in TW NEO land, so that screen is 611 for my 8300.


PS: SATA does not work on Passport software in my part of the country.

Reports indicate that the eSATA ports do not yet work on Passport in ANY part of the country. There are reports that they are getting close though.

If you google "vod" "error correction" you will find - amongst the crap - some white papers on video servers. Common to most is that there is NO error correction applied at the drive.

PC World on the Hitachi 7K400: "The drive is not only speedy; Hitachi says it also excels at streaming video--a key function of set-top, TiVo-like boxes and of PCs used as digital video recorders--thanks to its new Streaming Command Set. When used with compatible software, the industry-standard technology alters the drive's error-correcting functions during video streaming to permit minor errors rather than stopping the stream for correction. Although such errors are unacceptable in PC data, this results in smoother video, with rare, blink-and-you-miss-it imperfections. Hitachi says users should be able to turn this feature on and off."

From Hitachi's 7K500 online datasheet: "The Deskstar is the second generation Deskstar drive to enable the host system to maximize storage of data. This is achieved by Hitachi’s “Smooth Stream” technology which gives the host control over the drive’s error recovery process. This important ATA-7 Standards feature fine tunes the Deskstar to capture long audio or video data streams.

The Streaming Command Set has features that enable an AV system to maximize performance of the disk drive. The Configure Stream command allows the system to tell the disk drive how many simultaneous streams will be used and if they are read or write streams. This information enables the Deskstar to optimize its buffer management.

1. Drives go off line intermittently
Problem - heat or communications failure to the 8300?
Solution - better cooling?Is it possible that the drive did an automatic shutdown after a period of inactivity? I originally thought that an automatic shutdown would be a nice feature of an external drive, but this would have to be managed by the 8300 to avoid missing the start of a recording.

That Hitachi drive is sounding better all the time.

If you end up selling a full package including this drive- just plug and play- please post an announcement in this thread so that interested parties (like me) might purchase.

Thanks!!

That Hitachi drive is sounding better all the time.

If you end up selling a full package including this drive- just plug and play- please post an announcement in this thread so that interested parties (like me) might purchase.

Thanks!!
Just one piece possibly missing from the equation - there is that "When used with compatible software" statement meaning that the host controller in the 8300HD would need to be ATA/ATAPI-7 compliant and be able to give the Configure Stream commands to the drive. Without that, there may be no advantage for the Hitachi. I've googled and googled and still haven't been able to find ANY info on the 8300HD's SATA controller.

If you end up selling a full package including this drive- just plug and play- please post an announcement in this thread so that interested parties (like me) might purchase.I second that.

From Hitachi's 7K500 online datasheet: "The Deskstar is the second generation Deskstar drive to enable the host system to maximize storage of data. This is achieved by Hitachi’s “Smooth Stream” technology which gives the host control over the drive’s error recovery process. This important ATA-7 Standards feature fine tunes the Deskstar to capture long audio or video data streams.

The Streaming Command Set has features that enable an AV system to maximize performance of the disk drive. The Configure Stream command allows the system to tell the disk drive how many simultaneous streams will be used and if they are read or write streams. This information enables the Deskstar to optimize its buffer management.

Just one piece possibly missing from the equation - there is that "When used with compatible software" statement meaning that the host controller in the 8300HD would need to be ATA/ATAPI-7 compliant and be able to give the Configure Stream commands to the drive. Without that, there may be no advantage for the Hitachi. I've googled and googled and still haven't been able to find ANY info on the 8300HD's SATA controller.

You hit the nail on the head. If the 8300 does not support the ATA-7 command set and issue the correct commands to the eSATA drive the advanced features are lost.

Also I will bet the four different SATA drive manufactures (MAXTOR, SEAGATE, WESTERN DIGITAL & HITACHI) all have different levels of compatibility support to the ATA-7 level commands. It probably all depends on the firmware level on the drives as sugguested earlier by Jesse.

So the 8300 must issue the correct commands and the SATA drives must have the correct version of the firmware to accept and execute the commands.

Here are some BIG QUESTIONS:
1. Do the four SATA drive manufactures list their compatibility to the ATA-7 command set?

2. Are firmware upgrades available?

3. To apply the firmware upgrade must the SATA drive be attached to a PC?

Remember the Hitachi Deskstar is a second generation SATA drive.

(joepic, you do a smashing cut-and-paste job!)

Here are some BIG QUESTIONS:
1. Do the four SATA drive manufactures list their compatibility to the ATA-7 command set?

2. Are firmware upgrades available?

3. To apply the firmware upgrade must the SATA drive be attached to a PC?
4. What is the SATA host controller in the 8300HD and what standards does it support?

4. What is the SATA host controller in the 8300HD and what standards does it support?


I am glad you like my cut & paste :cool:

I don't believe there is an 8300HD hardware issue, only software. I believe it would be the folks who code the SARA or PASSPORT (someday, in the near future I hope they support SATA) software to READ the eSATA drive information (what level of ATA code it supports) and issue the correct commands.

I don't believe there is an 8300HD hardware issue, only software. I believe it would be the folks who code the SARA or PASSPORT (someday, in the near future I hope they support SATA) software to READ the eSATA drive information (what level of ATA code it supports) and issue the correct commands.
That could require "smarts" that are just not there. At some point, new firmware isn't enough. But, we're all just filling up column inches here with speculation. Fun, isn't it? :)

Edit: Just emailed to SA "World Headquarters" - "Can you tell me what SATA controller is in the 8300HD? I am interested in determining the ATA/ATAPI standard that it supports. " We'll see . . .

Is it possible that the drive did an automatic shutdown after a period of inactivity? I originally thought that an automatic shutdown would be a nice feature of an external drive, but this would have to be managed by the 8300 to avoid missing the start of a recording.

A drive shut down for inactivity sounds like a good idea but you are asking the wrong guy since I do not have a SATA drive connected to my 8300HD yet (I live in PASSPORT land).

An external drive shutdown and restart must be controlled by the 8300 not the external drive as far as who issues the commands. Otherwise the 8300 assumes the SATA drive is ready to accept data and the data is lost or the 8300 hangs waiting for the drive to power up.

Has anyone tried this 400g drive?

external 400gig SATA drive (http://www.cmsproducts.com/detail.aspx?ID=725)

has a 7pin SATA connector.

Has anyone tried this 400g drive?

external 400gig SATA drive (http://www.cmsproducts.com/detail.aspx?ID=725)

has a 7pin SATA connector.

I checked their web site and it does not appear that the enclosure has a fan. Lack of a fan should make it completely unsuitable.

Has anyone tried this 400g drive?

external 400gig SATA drive (http://www.cmsproducts.com/detail.aspx?ID=725)

has a 7pin SATA connector.
It seems intently focused on being a backup solution and as such may not easily be used as a DVR external drive.

OT for this thread, but I'm curious about cooling. I have an IoMega external hard drive which is running all the time my computer is on. It never even gets warm, never mind hot and it's in a small case with no fan.

Just wondering: Why do the external SATA drives need to be cooled? I assume there's something very different about them.

OT for this thread, but I'm curious about cooling. I have an IoMega external hard drive which is running all the time my computer is on. It never even gets warm, never mind hot and it's in a small case with no fan.

Just wondering: Why do the external SATA drives need to be cooled? I assume there's something very different about them.
That's not really OT, Jim. I don't know what the rotational speed of your Iomega is, but most are buying 7200RPM drives for external DVR usage. Plus, our boxes and the drives are running 24/7/365, and most likely containing content which we would prefer not to lose as there is no way to back up or archive it. Perhaps the drives would have long lives w/o active cooling, perhaps they wouldn't. Those that have fans consider it a worthwhile and even necessary safety measure; those w/o don't.

pepar:

I agree that cooling makes sense. Even hard drives inside your computer are cooled by its fans. Maybe it does have something to do with the RPM. I'm not sure what my external drive runs at. I've had it for a couple of years and it's never been a problem. Now, if I buy an external for my 8300HD, I might go with a cooling fan, which seems to be the consensus here.

The other factor seems to be styling. The box with the best cooling (ePower from New Egg) is considered ugly by many. The stylish boxes usually don't have a fan.

The other factor seems to be styling. The box with the best cooling (ePower from New Egg) is considered ugly by many. The stylish boxes usually don't have a fan.
Ugly is in the eye/mind of the beholder. To me, never having a drive failure and loss of data is beautiful. Besides, in many installations, the ext drive will be stashed away and out of view. Having said that, sooner or later as this relatively new application gains popularity, companies will turn their attention to marketing an attractive and efficient enclosure.

The other factor seems to be styling. The box with the best cooling (ePower from New Egg) is considered ugly by many. The stylish boxes usually don't have a fan.

Not only is it nasty butt ugly but its also very noisey. No silent fan on these things.

Not only is it nasty butt ugly but its also very noisey. No silent fan on these things.
Well, you could pay these guys (http://www.g-technology.com/Products/G-DRIVEQ.cfm) $600 for their "fan-less" model.

I'd give them 50 bucks for an empty case without all the other connectors on it. Just a sata connector and card on the inside.

I'd give them 50 bucks for an empty case without all the other connectors on it. Just a sata connector and card on the inside.
That makes two of us, but I might go $75 just because I *really* like the styling. I've been googling with no luck so far.

Not only is it nasty butt ugly but its also very noisey. No silent fan on these things.

Mike,

I find the fan on the ePower enclosure to be very quiet. I've come across them 3 different times. I'm quite happy with mine (I'm not looking for something stylish).

:)