8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! [Text View] - Page 5

DiscounTech

11-23-05, 08:16 PM

We thought we had a case solution for everyone, a "magic case" if you will. It has a fan switch on the back that is completely independent of the drive power. However, the fan whilst operating is in the louder group of cases we've evaluated. More importantly, it makes a certain metalic whine (SanMax). We evaluated three more models of cases this week (including Kingwin which doesn't accomodate the sheathing on the external cable!). All are going back to the vendors.

Our current case is fairly quiet and the sound it makes is a tolerable low hum, rather than a whiny whirr.

We are trying to get our hands on the new Hitachi drives as suggested a few days ago. I will post more once I know more.

pepar

11-24-05, 01:54 PM

romanesq

11-25-05, 11:47 AM

Mike,

I find the fan on the ePower enclosure to be very quiet. I've come across them 3 different times. I'm quite happy with mine (I'm not looking for something stylish).

:)

I'm all for a fan that works to remove any concern about the drive. Dave, there's an orange cable with the drive. Does this in fact work with connecting to the 8300HD?
Yes, the orange is ugly but one could live with it.

davehancock

11-25-05, 11:53 AM

I was talking about the enclosure-not the drive. The cable that comes with most enclosures and drives is SATA-I, not the SATA-II (or eSATA these days) that is needed for the SA8300.

romanesq

11-25-05, 12:04 PM

Dave,

I just saw this back earlier in the thread but thanks for the quick reply. Wonder if anyone has dropped the big Hitachi 500GB in this yet.

HaloBox

11-26-05, 01:43 PM

I have a hitachi 500GB sata2 drive connected to my 8300HD box and have had zero problems. I've had it for about a month now I guess and have not turned it off or had to reboot the 8300. I record about a dozen shows a month and many times am recording 2 and watching a recorded one at the same time with no problems. The majority of stuff I record is all hidef material. The thing just works.

Mike, could you post details on the enclosure you are using? I'd like to know where you got it, where you got the eSata cable, and which Hitachi drive you are using.

I'm assuming it's the Deskstar 7k500 at http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/site/en/menuitem.8f07a3c3d3a7a12d92b86b31bac4f0a0/

thanks

Ronin1

11-27-05, 01:41 PM

The received data streams are MPEG2 format whether OTA, CATV or SAT.
DVRs simply record the MPEG2 stream into a data file and stream it out later.

Nothing is changed from the original, except when you select a different output resolution.

PS: Analog channels must go through a MPEG2 Encoder within the DVR prior to being recorded.

I don't know about HD specifically, but many cable channels are encrypted for transmission (to make theft of services more difficult) and have to be run through the box to be decrypted for viewing. When the program is recorded to the hard drive the material is stored in an encrypted format TWC and SA are understandably mum about the specifics of their encryption schemes) that is keyed to the particular DVR (and hence can not be played back on another DVR if one were to exchange hard drives). In short, there is a lot of processing going on and the hardware is probably right on the edge of not being able to handle everything when all the 8300's functions are utilized (record two programs, record one to VCR, and play back another recorded program).

HaloBox

11-27-05, 09:33 PM

Mike, could you post details on the enclosure you are using? I'd like to know where you got it, where you got the eSata cable, and which Hitachi drive you are using.

I'm assuming it's the Deskstar 7k500 at http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/site/en/menuitem.8f07a3c3d3a7a12d92b86b31bac4f0a0/

thanks

Does anyone have an external drive working that they built as opposed to buying the Maxtor solution? I too would like a 500gig solution but most if not all of the exclosures I've looked at have the wrong SATA connector on the outside. I'm looking for an enclosure with the eSata connector along with USB, Firewire, or all three.

davehancock

11-27-05, 10:17 PM

Does anyone have an external drive working that they built as opposed to buying the Maxtor solution?.

Gee, look back at the earlier pages of this thread (start with the first post). Lots of us have built them. Yes, you need a SATA TO eSATA cable.

pepar

11-27-05, 10:41 PM

Does anyone have an external drive working that they built as opposed to buying the Maxtor solution? I too would like a 500gig solution but most if not all of the exclosures I've looked at have the wrong SATA connector on the outside. I'm looking for an enclosure with the eSata connector along with USB, Firewire, or all three.
You do not need an enclosure with an eSATA connector as you can buy an eSATA-to-SATA cable.

HaloBox

11-27-05, 11:14 PM

You do not need an enclosure with an eSATA connector as you can buy an eSATA-to-SATA cable.

Awesome. Thanks!!!

Time to do a little more reading. :eek:

pepar

11-28-05, 08:17 AM

Awesome. Thanks!!!

Time to do a little more reading. :eek:
Many have been discussed and linked in this thread. "Search this Thread" top right of the page.

HaloBox

11-28-05, 10:43 AM

pepar

11-28-05, 11:36 AM

I ordered the following:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817145660
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100600-1
http://www.satacables.com/html/sata_external_cables.html (SS-1ESS)

This should all be here and working in another week or so.

Thanks folks. :D
I am excited for you! Please post your comments about putting it together, hooking it up and how it works. Specifically, I am interested in how it performs - any freezes, audio dropouts, etc. For the ultimate test, record something - hi-def if possible - and then watch that recorded program while recording TWO simultaneous programs, again hi-def if ya got it.

HaloBox

11-28-05, 11:45 AM

I am excited for you! Please post your comments about putting it together, hooking it up and how it works. Specifically, I am interested in how it performs - any freezes, audio dropouts, etc. For the ultimate test, record something - hi-def if possible - and then watch that recorded program while recording TWO simultaneous programs, again hi-def if ya got it.

No problem. Almost everything I record will be high def off Charter Communications cable via the Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD PVR.

Verizon FIOS TV is supposed to be fully lit in my area in the next few weeks so I'll be adding them to my infrastructure. I'm told they aren't currently supporting external drive recording from the MOT 6412 they are deploying. I plan to impress upon them that it is a requirement for me when the time comes... :D

Danabw

11-28-05, 12:46 PM

I had a TWC (West San Fernando Valley) tech out the other day, and he told me the sata output is active. I haven't tried it yet bhecause this forum indicates it won't work with Passport. Anybody had success?

That's what I thought...that the SATA on the TWC Passport SA8300HD boxes was disabled. Has anyone confirmed differently? Is SATA working now? Last I heard, TWC was controlling this so they could start renting external drives next year, and keep customers from the DIY approach.

pepar

11-28-05, 02:06 PM

That's what I thought...that the SATA on the TWC Passport SA8300HD boxes was disabled. Has anyone confirmed differently? Is SATA working now? Last I heard, TWC was controlling this so they could start renting external drives next year, and keep customers from the DIY approach.
Technically, it's not disabled; it not ENabled. There is rumored to be - discussed at random locations in this thread - an upcoming Passport version that will enable it. My cable provider (Suscom York PA) has informed me that it will be deployed 12/15 - 12/31. Even if that happens - they've since been purchased by Comcast - that does not mean every system will roll it out. Subscribe to this thread and you will be kept up to date.

To date, no cable provider is renting external DVR drives. (Many "SARA" systems have the eSATA turned on.) Even Scientific Atlanta does not support the drives. They provide a compatibility list, as my provider has told me that they will do as well. My understanding is that they do not/will not support the drives themselves is because they do not want to expend tech support resources on them. How much could they reasonably charge per month for a drive? Whatever, a single truck roll would chew it up quickly.

GilWave

11-28-05, 06:02 PM

johnearp

11-29-05, 10:42 AM

I ordered the following:

This should all be here and working in another week or so.

Thanks folks. :D

The link to the cable has 3 types of cables. Which is the correct one?

Thanks

HaloBox

11-29-05, 11:32 AM

The link to the cable has 3 types of cables. Which is the correct one?

Thanks

I ordered the SS-1ESS cable. Type L to type I. I'm assuming it's correct but won't know for sure until I get all the goods and put everything together.

DiscounTech

11-29-05, 10:22 PM

The correct cable is eSATA to SATA I. We like the Comax cable. It can be ordered from:

Comax Part # 221303D or 221303C (http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.52/it.A/id.195/.f)

This is guaranteed to work with any SATA I case and the 8300HD (which uses eSATA).

pepar

11-29-05, 11:41 PM

I called G-Technology about the shipping date for their eSATA 500GB heat sink/fanless drive - shipping starts next week.

I've ordered one and will post results when I've fired 'er up and recorded a few hours of HD. Not a moment too soon - my internal drive is nearly full.
I'd be interested in knowing if there are any identifying markings on the enclosure that would lead to the actual manufacturer enabling one to purchase it as a standalone item.

GilWave

11-30-05, 07:56 AM

I'd be interested in knowing if there are any identifying markings on the enclosure that would lead to the actual manufacturer enabling one to purchase it as a standalone item.It looks to me like G-Tech *IS* the manufacturer of the chassis, or at the very last is the designer of the chassis and it is being made exclusively for them - it matches all their other chassis designs, which were meant to go with an Apple G5 tower cosmetically.

pepar

11-30-05, 08:44 AM

It looks to me like G-Tech *IS* the manufacturer of the chassis, or at the very last is the designer of the chassis and it is being made exclusively for them - it matches all their other chassis designs, which were meant to go with an Apple G5 tower cosmetically.
Thanks. That's what I was afraid of. Stunning design - both cosmetically and functionally - aside, I can't bring myself to pay the premium that G-Tech commands for these. Guess I'll keep googling "G5 style SATA enclosure" . . .

Tanks again.

dt_dc

11-30-05, 10:48 AM

TWC and SA are understandably mum about the specifics of their encryption schemesSA uses 3DES for all content stored to the hard drive(s).

pepar

11-30-05, 01:24 PM

Thanks. That's what I was afraid of. Stunning design - both cosmetically and functionally - aside, I can't bring myself to pay the premium that G-Tech commands for these. Guess I'll keep googling "G5 style SATA enclosure" . . .

Tanks again.
Now we're getting somewhere - Here's a stylish aluminum SATA enclosure from Granite Digital (http://granitedigital.com/catalog/pg48_portabledrivesystems.htm). (Scroll down.)

GilWave

11-30-05, 04:51 PM

Now we're getting somewhere - Here's a stylish aluminum SATA enclosure from Granite Digital (http://granitedigital.com/catalog/pg48_portabledrivesystems.htm). (Scroll down.)If there is no fan or heat sink on that chassis, it will get too hot. If there is a fan, it will make noise.

The case looks like cheesy-taiwanesy to me, and besides - with the 500GB Hitachi drive it's only $30 less than the G-tech.

I find it amazing that some folks (not you of course, pepar) will spend $100 or more on a cable, and $2000 or more for a de-interlacer, yet when it comes to buying a nicely-built, well-designed case to put next to their STB they want to go as cheap as possible.

pepar

11-30-05, 06:46 PM

If there is no fan or heat sink on that chassis, it will get too hot. If there is a fan, it will make noise.
I'm somewhat at a disadvantage here as you at least have one of the two enclosures in your hands. But that's never stopped me before! :)

In order to compare the effectiveness of passive cooling strategies of the G-Tech and the Granite Digital, we'd need to know the total exterior surface areas as well as the coupling of the drives inside to the enclosure. On the surface, so to speak, it would seem link the fins may give the G the edge, but again, I haven't seen any specs on them. Better heat transfer inside the GD may give *it* the edge.

The case looks like cheesy-taiwanesy to me, and besides - with the 500GB Hitachi drive it's only $30 less than the G-tech.
I can't refute your cheesiness observation as that is a matter of preference, but I was referring to the total cost with buying the BARE enclosure and buying the Hitachi 7K500 for $375. That makes it about $475 for the case, drive and appropriate cable.

I find it amazing that some folks (not you of course, pepar) will spend $100 or more on a cable, and $2000 or more for a de-interlacer, yet when it comes to buying a nicely-built, well-designed case to put next to their STB they want to go as cheap as possible.
If it were only a $30 difference, I'd completely agree that that seems foolish, but my math makes it more a $125 savings.

FWIW, my deinterlacers are all built into the gear I own and I've never bought a standalone unit. As for cables, I employ the same strategy for them as I'm using re the external SATA enclosure; I try to find companies who sell their cables for not much over the cost of quality components and the labor to assemble them. NO PREMIUMS for some ethereal coolness factor. (If it isn't clear, that's a swipe at the G-Tech solution.)

I think your concerns and points are valid and well expressed, but I just see it all a wee bit differently.

GilWave

11-30-05, 08:08 PM

If it were only a $30 difference, I'd completely agree that that seems foolish, but my math makes it more a $125 savings.I'd agree, if the G-Tech chassis were available by itself. Even then, you have to order the case, then order the drive, and have them shipped to you with possible shipping and tax. That takes time.

Then you have to get it together, install the drive in the chassis and test it. That takes time, and yes it's simple but it's a hassle regardless.

Once the G-Tech drive is in full supply, the price will be discounted by the aggressive retailers they list on their site, so your $125 may come down to $25-50, and at that point (IMHO) I'd rather not deal with the hassle.

I try to find companies who sell their cables for not much over the cost of quality components and the labor to assemble them. NO PREMIUMS for some ethereal coolness factor. (If it isn't clear, that's a swipe at the G-Tech solution.)Duh. Not to worry, it's crystal clear. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't *last* night! :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, I hate to overpay for anything either - I am still reeling from the price that one of the esteemed AVS Forum Alliance Members wants for a 24 foot VGA cable. But as for the G-Tech, it's not just the "ethereal coolness factor" (eloquently put), but the quality of the chassis construction and the heat sink that make it worth a premium to me - whereas the Maxtor 300GB QuickView, while optimized for DVR use, is butt-ugly and anemic at 160 and 300GB.

I think your concerns and points are valid and well expressed, but I just see it all a wee bit differently.Absolutley! It's to the size of the wee that we disagree! :p

-gil

HaloBox

11-30-05, 08:16 PM

The G-Drive Q Stealth is way cool !!!

http://www.g-technology.com/Products/G-DRIVE-Images/G-DRIVE/G-DRIVE-Stealth.jpg

But it's $150 higher than what I paid. I could certainly afford it, but I'll give my chevy solution a shot first.

pepar

11-30-05, 11:07 PM

I'd agree, if the G-Tech chassis were available by itself. Even then, you have to order the case, then order the drive, and have them shipped to you with possible shipping and tax. That takes time.

Then you have to get it together, install the drive in the chassis and test it. That takes time, and yes it's simple but it's a hassle regardless.
Ahh, yes, they would be the two unaccounted for - and unaccountable - factors in making ones decision, wouldn't they. It's not a hassle if you can do it, and what's the rush? BTW, my calcs always include shipping; tax is never charged.

Once the G-Tech drive is in full supply, the price will be discounted by the aggressive retailers they list on their site, so your $125 may come down to $25-50, and at that point (IMHO) I'd rather not deal with the hassle.
Absolutely! Good point. No question. Ditto!

. . . the Maxtor 300GB QuickView, while optimized for DVR use, is butt-ugly and anemic at 160 and 300GB.
Amen, brother, on both counts.

GilWave

12-01-05, 08:56 AM

It's not a hassle if you can do it, and what's the rush?I can do it, and there's no rush, but if I didn't have to I'd prefer not to - nothing beats taking a complete unit out of the box and just plugging it in.

BTW pepar, I thoroughly enjoyed reading through your HT project - I am very impressed with the amount of DIY you've put into it. So obviously popping a hard drive into a case and cabling it is no big whoop.

Nice work on the HTPC too - I've built more than my fair share of PCs for audio (Wave Digital, Carillon) and was interested to see how you put the HTPC together. Good job - are you happy with the HTPC experience?

I decided on a refurbished HP Entertainment Center rather than build my own - I love the implementation and the fit-and-finish of their solution. So far so good as far as usability, but I wish MS Media Center Edition supported digital cable HDTV.

-g

GilWave

12-01-05, 09:34 AM

The G-Drive Q Stealth is way cool !!!.Yup, I love that unit.

Here is another eSATA unit that I am going to be checking out - it's from the folks at Glyph up in Ithaca, New York. They've been making custom external drive and storage solutions for the Pro Audio and Video community since 1993, and I've used their systems successfully with Digidesign's Pro Tools, Steinberg's Nuendo and eMagic/Apple's Logic Audio for years.

They just announced a quad-interface 500GB eSATA table-top drive that has self-contained power and fan-cooling, is ultra-quiet (designed for use in recording studios) and is tweaked for A/V use.

Don't have pricing yet, but they are due to ship later this month. I will most likely a-b this drive to the G-Tech and post results. The people at Glyph are passionate, engineering driven folks that take their work very seriously, and I have never been disappointed with their products. It is one of those (increasingly) rare product offerings where the reality of the ownership experience exceeds the hype of the marketing pitch.

http://www.glyphtech.com/site/products_gt050.html

pepar

12-01-05, 11:02 AM

I can do it, and there's no rush, but if I didn't have to I'd prefer not to - nothing beats taking a complete unit out of the box and just plugging it in.
I'm in complete agreement with you at $25-$50, but at $100+ I'd DIY. We both think alike, but at a different delta.

BTW pepar, I thoroughly enjoyed reading through your HT project - I am very impressed with the amount of DIY you've put into it. So obviously popping a hard drive into a case and cabling it is no big whoop.

Nice work on the HTPC too - I've built more than my fair share of PCs for audio (Wave Digital, Carillon) and was interested to see how you put the HTPC together. Good job - are you happy with the HTPC experience?
It's been fun - and very rewarding, too. I'm about to do some tweaking and take acoustical measurements which I believe will tell me that I need diffusion. My ear tells me I do, but the measurements will confirm it

My HTPC usage falls way short of many others in that I don't have a TV tuner in it, nor do I play DVDs through it. When I planned it, I thought I would. But your "out-of-the-box-plug-it-in-and-go" overcame me and I bought the outstanding Denon 3910. So much for futzing with apps, filters, etc.

I decided on a refurbished HP Entertainment Center rather than build my own - I love the implementation and the fit-and-finish of their solution. So far so good as far as usability, but I wish MS Media Center Edition supported digital cable HDTV.
"Out-of-the-box-plug-it-in-and-go" sure is powerful, isn't it? :)

rshamie

12-01-05, 10:52 PM

assJack1

12-02-05, 08:23 AM

Using a 500Gb Hitachi drive for about three months - zero problems to report.
(And I DVR a LOT of shows!)

MikeAlletto

12-02-05, 01:42 PM

vegggas

12-02-05, 10:15 PM

I've read elsewhere that installing an SATA drive on the 8300HD that is over 250gb causes problems. I notice that some people in this thread are using 300 and 500gb drives. Can you tell me if they are funtioning ok? I'm about to pull the trigger on a large drive but I want to make sure that I wont have any problems. The guys at discountechnology_com claim that they have done a significant amount of testing and they found that while the larger drives work initially, they are problematic and not reliable.

Can anyone confirm this?
While not causing specific problems, the larger the drive, the more the ram memory can be fragmented and cause problems. The internal memory has to keep a record of all the shows on both drives and all associated data. Each cable co uses the available memory in different ways to run specific objects in the OS on the STB as well as peripheral applications and IPG data. The actual video memory is also used (= apparent video quality reduction or softness) in some systems to create an overlay technology to run SA program STB's on other (like Motorola) embedded systems, etc. Once the memory usage has reached peak levels, the STB may behave erratically until a hard reboot is done. The process of adding and deleting shows, especially deleting a currently recording show, or watching a buffered recording behind live recording puts the memory in dangerously low conditions that may result in lost or cut off recordings, or data errors.
SA, with their OS and system without additional apps, can run another 160GB smoothly and can use 300GB with decent results. Outside their enviroment, in a cable plant, there are too many variables to provide a simplistic YES, NO or HOW BIG of a drive can be used. This is a primary reason that although the ports may be active due to built in SA software (Passport port is active, but software is not written) cable co's are not readily advertising this feature or supporting it.

vegggas

davehancock

12-02-05, 10:58 PM

As usual, veggas has given an excellent explanation.

Thanks :D

HaloBox

12-03-05, 02:39 AM

I ordered the following:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817145660
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100600-1
http://www.satacables.com/html/sata_external_cables.html (SS-1ESS)

FYI, the Hitachi drive I received appears to be defective. I have tried it with my laptop in the enclosure above (via USB 2.0), with my Dell PC via SATA (directly and via the enclosure), and of course connected to the SA 8300.

I cannot partition and format the drive from my laptop or Dell PC. The SA 8300 detects the drive but won't format and add it to the system.

So now I get to ship the drive back to zipzoomfly.com and let them ship me another drive. I'm guessing that will take 2-3 weeks considering they are going to test the drive and apparently don't plan to ship me one straight away.

The enclosure fan is almost silent. The drive I have is also whisper quiet, but considering it isn't working, who cares.

GilWave

12-03-05, 11:04 AM

FYI, the Hitachi drive I received appears to be defective. So now I get to ship the drive back to zipzoomfly.com and let them ship me another drive. I'm guessing that will take 2-3 weeks considering they are going to test the drive and apparently don't plan to ship me one straight away.Don't worry - just think about all the money you're saving over buying an out-of-the box solution like the Maxtor QuickView. :rolleyes:

Man I wish they'd do a 500GB unit already.

HaloBox

12-03-05, 12:17 PM

Don't worry - just think about all the money you're saving over buying an out-of-the box solution like the Maxtor QuickView. :rolleyes:

Man I wish they'd do a 500GB unit already.

Yea, I agree time is money. If the Maxtor solution was 500gig and had another connection other than SATA, I would have gone that route.

GilWave

12-03-05, 12:48 PM

If the Maxtor solution was 500gig and had another connection other than SATA, I would have gone that route.It is frustrating when we are forced to accept the inability of beurocratic corporations to adapt to change as quickly as we can react to change.

There is no justifiable reason that pre-packaged 500GB eSATA STB DVR solutions should not readily available from either Scientific Atlanta and other HD STB manufacturers and their 3rd party hardware partners. It is unfair for us "early adopters" to be unwitting uncompensated beta-testers for Hitachi, Maxtor, Seagate etc while we scamble to archive and otherwise fully enjoy the very features that Scientific Atlanta and the cable/satelite companies presented and hyped to us - they sure took our money for these services fast enough!

Since DTV is a government-mandated standard that must be adopted by all the networks anyway, it's not like our desire for extended DVR capacity is a flash-in-the-pan market opportunity.

Sorry for the rasnt - I will step off the soap box now.

-g

HaloBox

12-03-05, 10:57 PM

RaveD

12-06-05, 05:33 PM

Yea, I agree time is money. If the Maxtor solution was 500gig and had another connection other than SATA, I would have gone that route.
Maxtor has already announced 400GB and 500GB versions. Not sure when they will be available, though.

Tom_NK

12-06-05, 09:28 PM

I will be getting a box next week from time warner and unfortunately, they use passport for their software. It sounds like I won't be able to expand the storage capacity with the SATA drive with the current software revision. What are the keypresses to locate the software version? What is the last software version that has been verified not to work?

Finally, does Best Buy carry these drives yet? I'd be one to run out to try one out as soon as I saw a new software revision. That way, I'd be able to simply return it if it still didn't work.

Thanks

davehancock

12-06-05, 10:55 PM

BT1

12-07-05, 07:16 PM

Gavroche

12-08-05, 12:40 AM

The format used by the 8300HD is not a PC format, so PCs cannot "read" the drive. It would look unformatted to a PC. Furthermore, even it a PC could read the files, they are heavily encrypted.

Like MikeAlletto said: "No."

I'm afraid you are mistaken. I HAVE SUCCESSFULLY recorded content from my DVR disk to an Apple "Titanium" PowerBook (the very original powerbook running at a paltry 500MHz). The laptop correctly recognizes the 8300HD as such, and i use a program called iRecord to record the stream while it is playing. Apple has other capture utilities that are described elsewhere in these forums. The stream i get is purely MPEG2 unencrypted. In fact I played the file on my powerMac using VLC with no problem. I hear others are doing the same with PCs. The process seems to be slightly more complex but it works!

Cheers and good luck.

CANNON-FODDER

12-08-05, 12:53 AM

Gavroche,
It seems like you are speaking of a firewire connection between a powered up SA8300HD and your computer. Your success story may be appreciated in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593271) thread.

I believe pepar was speaking to connecting an external drive (with content recorded to it from the 8300HD) directly to a computer without the SA 8300HD and accessing the data on the drive like any other computer data.

There were scattered reports of success in examining some data on an internal HHD from 8000HD, but no algorithm was ever produced to read more than some text strings.

v/r,
C-F

Tom_NK

12-08-05, 07:40 AM

Tom_NK,

Welcome, but how about adding your location (city) to your profile. It makes a difference here as different cities in Time Warner systems have different versions of Passport (or SARA). None of the Passport systems have it yet.

The Maxtor Quickview drives seem to be in limited distribution. But you can easily build one yourself (it really is easy) or buy one on the internet. However, about the only place you will find out that your cable system has the new version is right here on the AVS forum (check out the passport thread). Your local TW system is not likely to tell you (from SARA experience).
Thanks for pointing out that oversight Dave. I've updated my profile accordingly. I'm in Norwalk, Ohio which is covered by Time Warner - Northeast Ohio.

I know they use Passport, but not sure of how to find out the version of Passport software. I guess I'll just have to deal with not saving the movies.

I signed up for the HDTV tier and HBO, which has two HD channels.

BenDover

12-08-05, 08:14 AM

I have been using a WD250 SATA drive borrowed from my HTPC for about 2 months. I had noticed from the start that the WD drive produced a slight clicking noise when the 8300 was on/or recording. The drive had made no (not noticeable) sounds when used in the HTPC for over a year, so I assumed it was from the constant drive head activity when on line. But it still bothered me!

Existing drive Western Digital WD250 SATAP/N:WD2500JD-00HB0
in a External SATA enclosure from Newegg (E-Power EP-301SA).

Today I installed a new drive Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L300S0 SATA 7200rpm/16MB (ZipZoom $126.50 delivered) After going thru the BOOT and format sequence on the 8300 all seemed OK, Capacity used 7% with estimated 10 to 15 hrs/HD material remaining on the internal drive. The “list” menu shows all of past total recordings, but obviously many were on the removed WD drive. The ones on the internal drive played fine, the ones I tried playing that were physically on the old WD (approx 6 2hrHD movies and 6 ½ hr shows) it just prompted me to return to the LIST.

For “fun?” I removed the new Maxtor from the case and reinstalled the older WD and went thru the “BOOT”, the screen showed up saying external drive was good to go as is. Then all titles on it played fine, just as before.

I then reinstalled the new Maxdor and re-ran the “BOOT”. All seems fine without having to run any formatting.

NOW, the question remains “ARE (1 at a time) MULTIPLE EXTERNAL DRIVES ON THE SAME 8300 POSSIBLE?” I had read earlier in this thread that is was an Urban Ledged, and also to the contrary that someone had multiple drives structured 1-sports, 1 movies, 1 specials etc.

From todays events it would sure seem possible. I will report when I get a few new HD movies on the empty Maxtor External drive and go thru the swap procedure. I have set it to record quite a few HD movies so I should be into the external drive in a few days.

Has anyone else done this? Fact not “Urban Ledged”?

The Maxtor is also much more quiet that the WD.

Steve

I had initially hoped to do this and in fact bought an enclosure that allowed me to easily swap out drives, each drive simply requiring its own caddy/tray. But, alas, I never tried it because I was fearful of losing the movie collection I had amassed. It would certainly be welcome news to me if this worked without losing the existing content, however, in the end it doesn't seem that workable at the present time unless they modify the software to cope with the multiple drives nicely; i.e., I would find it a severe pain in the a$$ not knowing which movies in the list were on which drive, etc. It would be nice if it either identified the recordings in the list as to which drive they belong (but that doesn't seem like a good solution either, I think it would be a mess), but it would be ideal if the 8300 simply did not show recordings in the list that were not physically present...it should recreate the list/catalogue each time a new drive is detected.

Short of being able to swap drives, the next thing would be an array of drives and I think a few in here have been investigating this but up until now it is cost-prohibitive and hardware is not that easily acquired to do this...

BT1

12-08-05, 10:42 AM

BenDover,

I agree that the menu listing issue would become unmanageable if you had more than 1 or 2 additional drives. I do not have a good plan on how to label the extra drives and see it as the biggest issue. With the price or HD storage falling, it seems like a reasonable value for now if we can find a convenient way to label the drives and cross-reference the 8300's recorded list.

The array of drives idea has been addressed here earlier and the costs for the server type interface for the array to be seen as 1 logical drive looks very costly.

Hope that others will chime in on this menu list / drive catalog issue, until we can find some way to stream the files to a PC and then archive to dvd as MPEG or?. It looks like others are on track with the Mack, so I hope that a work-around for the PC is near.

Steve

pepar

12-08-05, 11:32 AM

I'm afraid you are mistaken. I HAVE SUCCESSFULLY recorded content from my DVR disk to an Apple "Titanium" PowerBook (the very original powerbook running at a paltry 500MHz). The laptop correctly recognizes the 8300HD as such, and i use a program called iRecord to record the stream while it is playing. Apple has other capture utilities that are described elsewhere in these forums. The stream i get is purely MPEG2 unencrypted. In fact I played the file on my powerMac using VLC with no problem. I hear others are doing the same with PCs. The process seems to be slightly more complex but it works!

Cheers and good luck.
Nevermind that a Powerbook is not a PC, was the material hi-def when recorded and, if so, was it still hi-def on your Apple? I find it difficult to believe there would be such an obvious hole in the content providers' DRM as you being able to move HD content off of the 8300HD and play it elsewhere.

And yes, the context of my answer was attaching an external drive to a PC. But I'll expand it to include ANY computer.

pepar

12-08-05, 11:34 AM

BenDover

12-08-05, 11:37 AM

The 8300 is just NOT designed to have swappable external storage.

It would seem to be something that could easily be addressed by software/firmware upgrade...but that would require the desire to do so on the manufacturer/provider end.

BT1

12-08-05, 11:47 AM

pepar,

I fully understand that the 8300 is not designed to support multiple external drives, BUT is it not the purpose of these forums, to find uses for and get the most out of our toys?

I will keep trying to work out a reasonable solution to the listing / labeling issue and hope for the best.

Steve

davehancock

12-08-05, 12:02 PM

It would seem to be something that could easily be addressed by software/firmware upgrade...but that would require the desire to do so on the manufacturer/provider end.

Given the lack of interest* demonstrated by the providers in the external drive capability that is already there (on SARA systems), it is unlikely that they will request that SA address this "feature".

*I have not yet heard of ANY cable system actively promoting this great (external Hard Drive) capability. At best, they will acknowledge the capability but clearly state that they do not support it. I'd sure love to hear of examples of where ANY system is really promoting this.

pepar

12-08-05, 12:28 PM

It would seem to be something that could easily be addressed by software/firmware upgrade...but that would require the desire to do so on the manufacturer/provider end.
As they seem to have been dragged kicking and screaming into adding external drive capability in the first place, how motivated do you think they are to expand the capability to swappable external drives?

Someone even raised the memory issue in keeping track of material on the internal drive and a large external drive. The poster seemed to think the 8300 would have trouble with anything over 300GB (added on external). Plus, we have the issue of fragmantation; the more fragmented a file, the more space needed for the file allocation table, AND the more churning it has to do to stream the file. The larger the drive, the more fragmentation can occur. We have no defragging utility, which would need to be built in to the 8300HD and it's software, so at the top of MY wish list would be defragging.

BenDover

12-08-05, 06:59 PM

I agree, the likelihood of us getting *any* of these features is remote at best.

i'm not sure how big of an issue fragmentation would be given the very large file sizes.

i've got a 400gb external in my setup and i haven't had any issues with memory and keeping track of material...i've been near full at one point on both internal and external drives.

BT1

12-08-05, 09:05 PM

I very much agree with BenDover and pepar regarding any chance of getting the support we are suggesting.

If that is truly the case then I will sit tight and deal with a pair of 300g drives and wait until the cost of the 500's come down and go with just the 1 bigger drive.

OK by me, but I can dream can't I :)

Steve

Ronin1

12-09-05, 11:54 AM

Nevermind that a Powerbook is not a PC, was the material hi-def when recorded and, if so, was it still hi-def on your Apple? I find it difficult to believe there would be such an obvious hole in the content providers' DRM as you being able to move HD content off of the 8300HD and play it elsewhere.

And yes, the context of my answer was attaching an external drive to a PC. But I'll expand it to include ANY computer.

I have spoken with some of the TWC engineers and they told me that everything that is recorded on the HD is encrypted specifically so that the analog output is the only available option. They indicated that the encryption is keyed to the (serial number?) particular box such that a HD from a failed box can not be inserted in another box and retain useable data. Ditto the external SATA drive. I feel that Scientific Atlanta should be able to set up some sort of software to reauthorize an external drive to a different box through customer service (to authenticate the use), but they apparently have not even considered this possibility. Actually, TWC (San Antonio) has to send the box back to Scientific Atlanta when a HD fails as only they can set the replacement drive up...they must have more in shipping costs than the cost of the box the way these things fail.

As I have a Mac I will try to set aside some time to try this to see what happens, but it will be a while before I can get enough stuff off the Maxtor 300 GB drive so that I won't be hurt too badly if I have to reinitialize the drive for some reason.

Any other Mac users feel free to speak up.

Ronin1

12-09-05, 12:03 PM

Given the lack of interest* demonstrated by the providers in the external drive capability that is already there (on SARA systems), it is unlikely that they will request that SA address this "feature".

*I have not yet heard of ANY cable system actively promoting this great (external Hard Drive) capability. At best, they will acknowledge the capability but clearly state that they do not support it. I'd sure love to hear of examples of where ANY system is really promoting this.

Dave,

That has been precisely my experience with TWC-San Antonio. The people I spoke with about the matter acknowledged that the SATA port was active and that an external drive could be attached, but continued with disclaimers about what drives & etc might or might not work. Frankly, I think that they have not really tested things as they probably will be buying drives & cases from Maxtor and will rely upon Scientific Atlanta and Maxtor to certify the operation of the drives.

There are so many other issues that have gone unresolved that I doubt testing SATA cases to tell us which ones work is a priority.

The short answer to your question is, no, they do not promote the external SATA drive capability at all. I have never heard anything that is distributed to the general public.

Cheers,

Richard

pepar

12-09-05, 12:30 PM

There are so many other issues that have gone unresolved that I doubt testing SATA cases to tell us which ones work is a priority.

The short answer to your question is, no, they do not promote the external SATA drive capability at all. I have never heard anything that is distributed to the general public.
Oh, it IS a priority with them; it is at the TOP of their list of things they will NEVER do.

:(

Ronin1

12-09-05, 12:45 PM

Our testing of the "drive going offline intermittently" problem seems to suggest that the issue is a function of the firmware. There's been no indication that this is a cooling issue. For competitive reasons I'm not at liberty to share all our findings. But suffice to say, we've never found a Non-Maxtor drive that truly works 100%. So currently the limit is the fact that Maxtor aren't making 400 or 500GB drives. We've primarily tested Maxtor, Western Digital and Seagate.

Have the Hitachi 500GB drives been going offline at all? If someone who uses one can confirm that they've never seen it go offline, we'll bring in all the Hitachi models pronto and perform integration testing. Aside from our products, you have no idea how much I want a gigantic drive at home! =)

Low level formatting of drives, or surface integrity tests can indeed remap the drive so that bad blocks are ignored. Bad blocks can indeed cause drive performance issues. My feeling is that 3 simultaneous streams are literally at the edge of the performance envelope for a 5.4K RPM drive. 7.2K drives can acheive a higher sustained throughput and alleviate the drop out issue. However, users may well be seeing a mixture of both variables.

I have a Maxtor (16 MB) 300 GB 7,200 RPM drive attached to my SA8300 and I have simultaneously recorded two programs, run a "Record to VCR", and watched a previously recorded program. As near as I am able to make out the drive has been up to the task.

Like the others, I just don't think the 5,400 RPM drives are the way to go.

I have not seen any specific information about the Maxtor 500 GB drive availability, but they supposedly have them coming. Part of the problem with any new drive is that the supply of them goes to the OEM customers first.

Ronin1

12-09-05, 12:58 PM

The drive will generate heat. And being "on" 24/7/365, its life could be short if it is not kept cool. We've had this debate on this thread before and I am in the "why take the chance" camp. Here's an enclosure at Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817155903) that is popular with some posting on this thread. It has a SATA connector on the back, so you'd need to get the appropriate cable.

Here's the case opened. (http://www.peparsplace.com/html/21.html)

Thanks for the informative pix of the case. I noticed that yours is gray rather than the beige one shown in the link. I may have missed an option for the color. Could you explain?

Thanks

pepar

12-09-05, 01:06 PM

Thanks for the informative pix of the case. I noticed that yours is gray rather than the beige one shown in the link. I may have missed an option for the color. Could you explain?

Thanks
Actually, I bought it on eBay minutes before someone posted a link to what appears to be the identical enclosure on Newegg. I paid a few dollars less on eBay, but WAY overpaid for shipping (as is often the case on eBay). My best guess is that there is an Asian manufacturer who's OEM'ing them for everybody by the thousands..

RaveD

12-12-05, 02:31 PM

I have the same Maxtor 300GB drive that many here have reported no problems with. I always have problems -- either short skips or long freezes (10 seconds or more). These problems seem playback related because rewinding and replaying the same section works fine.

I took out the drive, connected it to a PC and used the MaxBlast program to do a full low-level format. Then I formatted the drive under Windows XP. Then I reconnected the drive to the 8300HD. STILL I have the same problems on playback.

Any suggestions on what to do next? Should I reformat the internal drive as well? Try a different drive (even though many people have reported success with this one)? Stop watching TV?

Help . . . if you can. . . .

pepar

12-12-05, 03:09 PM

lowella

12-12-05, 07:48 PM

Maybe try something other than maxtor...I have a great western digital and no problems whatsoever. I have also had TWO external Maxtor drives fail on me completely now, so am losing trust rapidly in that company. Just my personal experience though!

vegggas

12-12-05, 08:19 PM

pepar

12-12-05, 08:51 PM

Sounds exactly like a memory buffer fragmentation (not Hard Drive fragmentation) issue. Have you done a HARD reboot and forced a memory clear and rebuild? This will reload all OS data from the Headend and rebuild the virtual catalog files from the main drive.

vegggas
vegggas - Would that be a way to swap external drives? Could you just shut down and swap, having the 8300HD rebuild the list from what it saw on the drive, and then do it all over agian with a different external drive when one wanted to access that material?

vegggas

12-12-05, 09:22 PM

vegggas - Would that be a way to swap external drives? Could you just shut down and swap, having the 8300HD rebuild the list from what it saw on the drive, and then do it all over agian with a different external drive when one wanted to access that material?
NO!
The list is built and maintained on the internal drive only. If the list in memory gets corrupted, the mpeg files will still be there and the space will still be used, but you will not be able to access, or even see them. This is common when the second tuner is no longer available - the ram memory buffers become corrupted for that tuner buffer and the STB thinks it's already in use and not available to view or record. You also see this when your storage space is quite large, even though you have no programs recorded. The files are still there, but your (corrupted) ram image thinks they are gone, until a rebuild is done.
Rebuilding the list by reading from the main drive refreshes the RAM image that you navigate with. This is why I stress that with a lot of activity and added storage space, the ram memory will become fragmented and need to be rebuilt from the stored Hard Drive data. The larger the drive(s) the bigger the ram cache needs to be to hold all the data, the greater the risk of possible curruption.

vegggas

pepar

12-12-05, 09:58 PM

NO!
Oh well . . .

Thanks!

knoppe01

12-13-05, 07:16 AM

vegggas - To accomplish the rebuild - you only need to do a hard reboot (unplug and then replug the power after a little time) ? Is there some addtional step to take ?

Thanks

RaveD

12-13-05, 10:35 AM

Sounds exactly like a memory buffer fragmentation (not Hard Drive fragmentation) issue. Have you done a HARD reboot and forced a memory clear and rebuild? This will reload all OS data from the Headend and rebuild the virtual catalog files from the main drive.

vegggas
If by hard reboot you mean holding the power button while plugging it in, then yes, I have done that several times.

I'm at wit's end here ... I'm afraid I may have to re-format the INTERNAL hard drive as a last resort to solve this. But I still haven't watched the final season of Six Feet Under :mad:

RaveD

12-13-05, 10:37 AM

Are you getting the same behavior with material streaming from the internal drive?
Actually, I do get skips/freezes when playing back from the live buffer, which I assume is on the internal drive. But I don't seem to have any problems at all playing back recorded programs from the internal drive, though admittedly I haven't tried since the reformat.

pepar

12-13-05, 10:49 AM

Actually, I do get skips/freezes when playing back from the live buffer, which I assume is on the internal drive. But I don't seem to have any problems at all playing back recorded programs from the internal drive, though admittedly I haven't tried since the reformat.
Have you considered exchanging the box for a new one? If it's misbehaving with both internal and external, it may be a box problem.

jchandlerhall

12-14-05, 06:41 PM

Just wanted to post that I had success last night adding an external SATA drive, purchased locally at the CompUSA store.

I'm located in N.Alabama and have Knology as my cable provider. Running SARA, but couldn't catch the firmware level easily.

I purchase a 250GB SATA drive from CompUSA
Then had to call AcomData to purchase the appropriate external power supply cord. The included one assumes you'll be attaching the drive to the also-included PCI computer card -- which also provides power without a 'brick'.

The correct power cord is about $20 + $8 Fedex.
YOU ALSO need the right data cable, which is the same SATA to eSATA cable from Cruz systems (another ~$25). The AcomData drive uses the older SATA connector, so you need the conversion cable.

I have emailed AcomData and will discuss with their engineer (I have talked with already) about putting together a cable bundle to at least drop the price to around $40 or so for the bundle. Then they can offer at least slightly cheaper and one stop shop. We'll see if they bite...

Went from 80% full to 17% full. :-) I did try to plug the unit into the switched socket on the back of the 8300HD, but there are some bootup timing issues apparently where the drive isn't ready when the unit checks on it. Once I plugged it into my power strip, everything worked fine after that.

HaloBox

12-16-05, 02:16 PM

For those of you that added a 300, 400 or 500gig external drive, how long did it take for SARA to format the drive and display a message indicating it was ready and available?

Thanks

DEIFan

12-16-05, 02:43 PM

It took about 1-2min for my 300GB Seagate drive.

BT1

12-16-05, 03:08 PM

I have added 2 300gig drives to my HD8300 here in Tampa.

Agree with DEIFan, about 2 min for a new blank drive.

I got this link from the headder on this thread page of AVS. It is a GREAT summary on the do's and cant's. A bit pricy in comparison to roll your own, but a nice and clean adder AND it supports our forum!

http://www.weaknees.com/maxtor_qvx.php

Steve

liquidsg

12-16-05, 10:47 PM

HDTVFanAtic

12-17-05, 01:17 AM

pepar

12-17-05, 09:21 AM

Huh?

I must have missed something. You can add 2 300Gig Drives? How?
I saw that and wondered about it, too. I guessed that he had TWO 8300's and added a drive to each. Or he added a second drive after the first one blew up. :)

BT1

12-17-05, 09:32 AM

Sorry guys if I caused any confusion.

I do have two (2) separate external drives dedicated to one (1) 8300HD, BUT can only use one (1) at a time. I am forced to boot the 8300HD when changing drives.

I posted earlier that this is not the best situation because of the 8300HD listing menu issues. But, with juggling only two (2) external drives I feel I can keep track of the contents without too much trouble. If it becomes too much of a problem, I will switch to one (1) 500 gig drive when the price becomes more reasonable.

I have switched them back and forth about 3 times now without any problems I am aware of.

Steve

pepar

12-17-05, 09:43 AM

BT1

12-17-05, 10:58 AM

pepar,

I did go back and review several posting from vegggas regarding this issue and all I can say is that apparently, until I get some corruption of list memory files I can get away with what I am doing. If this is true I will convert to the 1 single larger external drive sooner rather than later.

I just went up to the theater room and again swaped the existing external drive. Re-booted the 8300 (0:02:15 boot time). 8300 said all is good with the swapped drive and I was able to access files there.

I stand forewarned that I may loose the files on both external drives if corruption occurs. Just an excuse to take the time to watch the HD movies now. :)

Steve

davehancock

12-17-05, 11:42 AM

Hey guys, i have been browsing through these forums for a while and have not seem many problems with the external sata. i have had mine working great for a few months ago and i had acquired a bunch of shows on the drive. Yestderday, when I turned the unit back on, all the shows that were on the external sata were gone! i had not made any changes to the unit or hd or touched any cables for that matter. I am getting a message wen i start the unit that the box is not authorized which i have not been getting b4. If n e ones knows anything about this, please help. thanks.

First of all, PLEASE put your LOCATION in your profile. When it comes to cable systems it is EXTREMELY important that we know where you are located.

If you are getting a message saying the box is not authorized, it sounds like the message is pertaining to the DVR itself, not the external drive. I'd suggest unplugging the DVR, then unplug the external drive, plug the DVR back in while Pushing the POWER button (hard boot). If you get the "Not Authorized" message, call the cable company - they might have something messed up with your authorization. Once the DVR is authorized and operating, then connect the external drive again (DVR power off), have it up and spinning and then do the Hard boot thing again. A new index will be built from the external hard drive contents. If the cable company determines that your DVR is defective and replaces it, any contents of the external drive will be gone.

pepar

12-17-05, 11:51 AM

BT1

12-17-05, 12:23 PM

[QUOTE=pepar]Whatever you do, don't look down! Wile E Coyote could run off a cliff and stand on thin air - until he looked down. :)

Hey, I have a habit of finding myself in that very situation much too often. ;)

Yes, ALL of the recorded material (all 3 drives, 1 internal and 2 external) shows up on the menu list of the internal drive. If I select one that is not on an available drive, it just prompts me to return to the list.

I did recently do some house cleaning (back-up to DVD) of the internal and 1 of the external drives and they were properly removed from the listing. I have several DVD recorders. A philips (magnavox MDV630) can record 480i thru the component cables. Nice quality. Fine for 55"RPTV, not so good thru a 720p FP on 100" screen.

vegggas

12-17-05, 12:23 PM

Just curious, does ALL of the recorded material appear on the list regardless of which drive is connected, or just the programming on the "live" drive?
All recorded material from all drives should appear on the list. The data list is maintained on the internal drive and accessed within Ram. The Ram list gets corrupted, but the act of rebooting helps refresh the Ram from the internal drive's catalog storage file. I've always said that more drive space increases the amount of Ram needed and the possibility of corruption of various types and that it MAY cause problems. That's just one of many factors, including buffers, multiple additions/deletions or deletions of incomplete files, etc, etc, that help contribute to problems. The amount of free memory available to handle these tasks varies wildly between systems and the way the STB is used.
Using two external drives will also take some commitment from the user to make sure they do not try to access content on the non-connected drive. That varible may cause erratic problems and corruption of the Ram and possible the catalog file on the drive being detected as a deleted file.

vegggas

BT1

12-17-05, 01:51 PM

Your summation seems quite clear to me.

It sounds like the newer 500 gig HD's may show some similar problems with taxing the onboard ram.

This thread should give us feedback on that issue soon. Many have stated that is the drive they are buying. We will have to wait. :(

I think I will just watch all I have on 1 of the external drives, then erase them on the menu and stick with only 1 until we get more feedback on the 500's. Throw it back in the HTPC.

Thanks again for the info,

Steve

HaloBox

12-18-05, 02:01 AM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16817145660
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produ...ctCode=100600-1
http://www.satacables.com/html/sata...nal_cables.html (SS-1ESS)

FYI, the Hitachi drive I received appears to be defective. I have tried it with my laptop in the enclosure above (via USB 2.0), with my Dell PC via SATA (directly and via the enclosure), and of course connected to the SA 8300.

I cannot partition and format the drive from my laptop or Dell PC. The SA 8300 detects the drive but won't format and add it to the system.

So now I get to ship the drive back to zipzoomfly.com and let them ship me another drive. I'm guessing that will take 2-3 weeks considering they are going to test the drive and apparently don't plan to ship me one straight away.

The enclosure fan is almost silent. The drive I have is also whisper quiet, but considering it isn't working, who cares.

UPDATE: I received the replacement 500gig Hitachi drive Friday. I had problems with it in the enclosure as well. So, I decided to take a different approach. I backed up one of my machines with Ghost 9 since it has a 300gig Maxtor SATA as drive c:. I pulled the drive and replaced it with the 500gig Hitachi and ran the restore. It runs flawlessly there.

After verification of my data, apps, mce shell works, etc., I dropped the 300gig drive in the enclosure and started running some tests. It worked flawlessly in my USB tests so I powered the SA 8300 down and connected it.

It formatted the 300gig drive and has been working nicely for about eight hours now. I recorded several HD programs. Right now, I'm recording two HD programs and watching a recorded HD program.

I think the problems I encountered were two fold. First of all, I think the external hard drive case referenced above may be limited to <400gig drives. I thought initially they just didn't bother to update the docs and marketing after the 500gig drives came out. In this cases case, it may be true. the 500gig drive would not work, and the 300gig does.

Second, it could also have been the SA 8300 didn't like the 500gig drive due the reasons previously described in this thread. It's hard to tell.

At this point, I got another 200gig upgrade to my PC, and a 300gig upgrade to my HD DVR so I'm happy they both work. For those of you planning a 500gig solution, I'd probably steer clear of this case. It's a really nice case for the price but I wanted to warn you about the possible capacity limit.

Merry Christmas :)

davehancock

12-18-05, 11:49 AM

I note that CompUSA has a TODAY ONLY sale of a 250GB Maxtor SATA Internal drive for only $59.99 after rebates. This drive has formed the basis for many of the folks here that have built their own.

http://www.compusa.com/adproducts/product_info.asp?product_code=305076&pfp=cat3

donleycott

12-18-05, 04:00 PM

MikeAlletto

12-19-05, 12:34 PM

UPDATE: I received the replacement 500gig Hitachi drive Friday. I had problems with it in the enclosure as well. So, I decided to take a different approach. I backed up one of my machines with Ghost 9 since it has a 300gig Maxtor SATA as drive c:. I pulled the drive and replaced it with the 500gig Hitachi and ran the restore. It runs flawlessly there.

After verification of my data, apps, mce shell works, etc., I dropped the 300gig drive in the enclosure and started running some tests. It worked flawlessly in my USB tests so I powered the SA 8300 down and connected it.

It formatted the 300gig drive and has been working nicely for about eight hours now. I recorded several HD programs. Right now, I'm recording two HD programs and watching a recorded HD program.

I think the problems I encountered were two fold. First of all, I think the external hard drive case referenced above may be limited to <400gig drives. I thought initially they just didn't bother to update the docs and marketing after the 500gig drives came out. In this cases case, it may be true. the 500gig drive would not work, and the 300gig does.

Second, it could also have been the SA 8300 didn't like the 500gig drive due the reasons previously described in this thread. It's hard to tell.

At this point, I got another 200gig upgrade to my PC, and a 300gig upgrade to my HD DVR so I'm happy they both work. For those of you planning a 500gig solution, I'd probably steer clear of this case. It's a really nice case for the price but I wanted to warn you about the possible capacity limit.

Merry Christmas :)

I'm using that case with a 500GB drive and it works perfectly. Maybe it is just hit and miss and I'm just really lucky, but I haven't had any problems.

BenDover

12-20-05, 07:12 PM

I'm getting one of these by the end of the week for my home server, but before it gets put into service, i'm going to plug it into the 8300 and see what happens...

5-Bay eSATA Hot-Swap... (http://www.satadrives.com/5hoespomuhad.html)

mike mcdaniel

12-20-05, 08:05 PM

WORKS IN NORTH GEORGIA MARKET WITH ADELPHIA Hello all! i used the Kingwin SS-350s-BK case from Newegg. Used a Maxtor 300 GB HD. I have SARA. Went from 85% to 28% !!!! yeah.... THanks everyone!!! Now i have to do like 5 more....!!! I did have to reboot 3 times and showed that external device not working properly 3 times. Now i have to hook up my new 4 way hdmi switcher from monoprice i got also today. :D

HaloBox

12-21-05, 03:10 AM

I'm using that case with a 500GB drive and it works perfectly. Maybe it is just hit and miss and I'm just really lucky, but I haven't had any problems.

I wish I had been lucky, too. No matter, I moved the 500gig drive into my PC and it's happy there. I'm probably going to add a VBOX HD tuner to it anyway.

RaveD

12-21-05, 06:40 PM

Just a reminder to those that experience drop outs when using the external drive, it is a good idea to FDISK and FORMAT the drive you are using as an external - I was having lots of problems with a new Maxtor 240GB SATA so I pulled it out of the 8300 and put it in my PC and formatted it =. Since then it has run flawlessly. I think the format on the 8300 is too fast and it does not detect any errors. Naturally if you do this after you have recorded some shows, you will lose all the recordings, so its best to do the format before installing.

Pat
Unfortunately it didn't work for me.

I took the drive out, did a full low-level format, then FDISK, then full format of the drive in Windows XP. Put it back in the 8300HD, cold boot.

If anything the problems are now worse than before. Still get freeze-ups. It's playback related -- the box will freeze for 10 seconds or more but if I rewind to the same spot it plays back flawlessly.

This using the same model hard drive and enclosure that others here have reported no problems with.

I guess I'll have to try getting a new cable box at some point...

pepar

12-21-05, 09:59 PM

Unfortunately it didn't work for me.

I took the drive out, did a full low-level format, then FDISK, then full format of the drive in Windows XP. Put it back in the 8300HD, cold boot.

If anything the problems are now worse than before. Still get freeze-ups. It's playback related -- the box will freeze for 10 seconds or more but if I rewind to the same spot it plays back flawlessly.

This using the same model hard drive and enclosure that others here have reported no problems with.

I guess I'll have to try getting a new cable box at some point...
I'm not sure how this got started, but "low level" formatting is not what's happening when using a PC's BIOS. It is actually a read/write verify of the drive’s user data sectors. And FDISK creates a partition FOR A PC FORMAT. The 8300HD does NOT use a PC-compatible format, so that is useless. Important drive information (servo, sector layout, and defect management, etc.) is stored in the low-level format at the factory. This information is designed to last the life of the drive and therefore it is not possible to low level the drive outside the factory. However, an honest-to-goodness low level format may be possible with a utility from the drive manufacturer. If available, it would be found on the manufacturer's website.

vegggas

12-21-05, 11:29 PM

I agree with pepar.
In my experience, the MaxBlast utilities for Maxtor drives work very well. I believe they do a defect management update with their specific drive utility.

vegggas

BPlayer

12-22-05, 09:37 AM

pepar

12-22-05, 10:13 AM

I was one of the people that reported positive results after doing an FDISK and format with a PC. As a refresher, I had an new external drive that had lots of problems. It was exchanged under warranty for a factory refurbished drive. The second drive was even worse. After the PC procedure it was totally flawless.

I subsequently disconnected it for a couple of months and put it in storage. It was reconnected yesterday and was back to its old problems. Very strange. I will be trying the PC procedure again.

While this was going on I had a second drive that worked almost perfectly, even after being turned off for weeks.

Once again I am at a loss to understand what is going on.
Perhaps something mechanical that the physical act of removing, doing the PC thing with it and then reinstalling it "fixed" . . loose internal connection, perhaps. When you moved it again, the problem reocurred . . loose internal connection seems like a good candidate . . .

Just my $.02. And worth every penny. :)

RaveD

12-22-05, 12:52 PM

I'm not sure how this got started, but "low level" formatting is not what's happening when using a PC's BIOS...
Yes, I know.

I did a low-level format using the Maxtor MaxBlast diagnostic software.

pepar

12-22-05, 01:32 PM

Yes, I know.

I did a low-level format using the Maxtor MaxBlast diagnostic software.

:)

It was intended for those who didn't. There appear to be a few . . .

HaloBox

12-29-05, 10:43 PM

UPDATE: I received the replacement 500gig Hitachi drive Friday. I had problems with it in the enclosure as well. So, I decided to take a different approach. I backed up one of my machines with Ghost 9 since it has a 300gig Maxtor SATA as drive c:. I pulled the drive and replaced it with the 500gig Hitachi and ran the restore. It runs flawlessly there.

After verification of my data, apps, mce shell works, etc., I dropped the 300gig drive in the enclosure and started running some tests. It worked flawlessly in my USB tests so I powered the SA 8300 down and connected it.

It formatted the 300gig drive and has been working nicely for about eight hours now. I recorded several HD programs. Right now, I'm recording two HD programs and watching a recorded HD program.

I think the problems I encountered were two fold. First of all, I think the external hard drive case referenced above may be limited to <400gig drives. I thought initially they just didn't bother to update the docs and marketing after the 500gig drives came out. In this cases case, it may be true. the 500gig drive would not work, and the 300gig does.

Second, it could also have been the SA 8300 didn't like the 500gig drive due the reasons previously described in this thread. It's hard to tell.

At this point, I got another 200gig upgrade to my PC, and a 300gig upgrade to my HD DVR so I'm happy they both work. For those of you planning a 500gig solution, I'd probably steer clear of this case. It's a really nice case for the price but I wanted to warn you about the possible capacity limit.

Merry Christmas :)

FYI, my external 300gig drive has been working nicely for almost a couple of weeks now. I would have liked to have the 500gig drive work, but it's ok. I'm using the 500gig drive to rip my DVD's and convert them to a format my PSP can play.

Happy New Year!!!

romanesq

12-31-05, 11:32 AM

I am now venturing into 500 gig territory as well with the Hitachi. And I remain optimistic about it. Using Macintosh OS X so I don't forsee any of this PC formating in its future.

I'm going in. :)

MarketingProf

12-31-05, 12:37 PM

I am now venturing into 500 gig territory as well with the Hitachi. And I remain optimistic about it. Using Macintosh OS X so I don't forsee any of this PC formating in its future.

I'm going in. :)Keep your wits about you and be careful in there. :D

mikepd

01-01-06, 12:55 AM

pepar

01-01-06, 01:05 AM

Addonics sells a 5x1 port multiplier which from the specs seems you can build a 5 drive SATA tower and make it appear as a single RAID drive to the Explorer box.

Since I do not have the requisite 5 posts, I cannot provide the URL but it is listed under Host Controller and they say it integrates into their external tower.

This would seem to be an ideal solution for increased storage space if it works and the money was in the budget. The nice thing about this is that you could add drives as you go and not have to add them all at once.

I just looked at this at first glance and thought I would throw it out for the more experienced folks to get their opinions on the subject.

Happy New Year to all, BTW.

Mike
Happy New Year to you as well.

I don't think it works quite like that. A port multiplier is not RAID. It is simply a way to attach multiple drives to a single cable. Those multiple drives will still appear as multiple volumes to an operating system. A port multiplier could be used with software RAID, but that software would be running on a computer. The 8300HD has no such capability. It's a nice thought though . . .

mikepd

01-01-06, 01:06 AM

We have Brighthouse for cable Internet and in order to get their new 15/2Mbs via Road Runner HSI service, you must subscribe to their triple play package.

We already have Dish for TV but decided to put cable in one room instead of a third sat receiver so I added an additional 200GB external SATA drive in the Addonics enclosure which is working very well. It took less than 30 seconds to prepare the drive for use in the SA 8300, barely gets warm, disk usage went from 28% to 7% and is a very simple upgrade.

Next month we plan to add HDTV in the living room and have not yet decided whether to go with Dish or Brighthouse but that is a topic for a different thread.

Thanks to the OP for the original subject as I had the disk as a replacement to one that went bad in one of my computers. Brighthouse has changed a lot for the better since we last had them back in 1998.

Mike

Roseylv

01-02-06, 12:23 AM

vegggas

01-02-06, 01:55 AM

Hello all and Happy New Year,
I live in Las Vegas and am using COX.
I have been searching and searching although I have not come-up with a conclusion to my problem.
My ESATA drive is hooked up although each time I reboot my system and turn it back on...It says, my external device isnot responding, check cables and connection?
I have tried to reboot at least 3-4 times and nothing. I have asked cox what version firmware I am currently running and they told me SARA...
The guy also said that my SATA outlet has NOT been enabled?? The technical support rep did not seem too knowledgable.
Can anyone help?
Thanks in advance
No cable company supports the eSATA function and external drives, and no sales rep or CSR will have any info regarding it. This is all unsupported, but "use at your own risk" external connectivity people on this specific forum have utilized. I, and others, have been using an external drive in Las Vegas for a long time. I still prefer, for compatibility's sake, the named suported Maxtor Qickview Expander complete drive kit. I have had dozens of other locals (some with NO electronic or PC aptitude) buy the same drive with no problems with installation.
Your firmware has nothing to do with the external drive working. The eSATA port is part of the SARA programming of the STB, that Cox Las Vegas uses exclusively. This is much like USB ports working in Win98 and above - it's built into the OS. That said, there is something wrong with your particular external parts or the way it's connected. The fact that the STB actively responds, tells me the port is working, but the external parts are not.
There is also a very active local Las Vegas area thread you shoud read and join (link in sig).

vegggas

Roseylv

01-02-06, 02:43 AM

pepar

01-02-06, 12:13 PM

Thanks for a quick response!
Do I need any other wires or cables to be connected? Included with my case was a black and red wire. It seems to be affiliated with HDD ACCESS, JP3 FAIL OUT, JP4, JP5. Sorry for such newbie type questions. I have my sata cable and a molex 4-pin connected! Is there any other troubleshooting that can be attempted before I cave in and admit that I purchased the wrong HDD.
thanks again

ps.
I'm using a Seagate Barracuda 7200. Is this compatable with SA8300hd?
Have you verified drive operation? Connecting it to a PC or another 8300HD would be a way to do that.

The wire designations you mention are associated with the light on the front of a computer case indicating - ready? - Hard Drive Access and what sounds like it might be remote jumpering. You might check the manual to see if what the jumpering configuration shoud be for your application. Once set, they would almost never need changing.

kevinivey

01-02-06, 06:18 PM

I see that most of thread has become how to build your own, but I bought a external Sata Maxtor 160 gb from "Weakness" and it has worked flawless. No noise, and worked the first time.

davehancock

01-02-06, 06:48 PM

I see that most of thread has become how to build your own, but I bought a external Sata Maxtor 160 gb from "Weakness" and it has worked flawless. No noise, and worked the first time.
No, the thread did not "become" a build it your own thread. It started before the Maxtor Quickview was available and Dmilani discovered that the port worked with an external drive that he put together. It was not till about 6 months later that "pre-built"drives (Maxtor Quickview) became available. The thread now covers both "build it yourself" and "pre-built" units. ;)

pepar

01-03-06, 01:45 PM

You might find my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6835815#post6835815) on the Passport thread interesting. It's titled "Passport version that activates SATA pushed to 1Q2006."

GilWave

01-03-06, 10:13 PM

All current drives have SATA I on back, and the 8300HD has a SATA II. SATA II spec. was just finalized, so most products don't support this connector yet.So if I bought the just-released G-Tech 500GB Quad-iterface drive with eSATA connector (http://www.g-technology.com/Products/G-DRIVEQ.cfm), do I get an eSATA II to eSATA cable II, type "I" connector at each end? Or SATA to eSATA, type "L" at one end?

I ordered this: http://www.satacables.com/html/sata_external_cables.html - SS-1ESES

ThePerfectViewe

01-04-06, 06:38 AM

GilWave

01-04-06, 07:03 AM

Also, which cable system are you on.CableVision of New Jersey, SARA software.

dt_dc

01-04-06, 01:01 PM

Silicon Image / LaCie announce SteelVine based external SATA products:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060104/sfw057.html?.v=42

500GB and 1 TB configurations

As with all solutions based on the SteelVine Storage Processor, the Two Big works with any SATA-compliant host port -- no drivers, host software or BIOS extensions are required -- making the Two Big completely operating system-independent. Its plug-and-play functionality allows it to simply connect to any standard computer equipment running Windows, Linux or MAC OS X, as well as to consumer devices such as set-top boxes and personal video recorders (PVRs).

davehancock

01-04-06, 02:01 PM

So if I bought the just-released G-Tech 500GB Quad-iterface drive with eSATA connector (http://www.g-technology.com/Products/G-DRIVEQ.cfm), do I get an eSATA II to eSATA cable II, type "I" connector at each end? Or SATA to eSATA, type "L" at one end?

I ordered this: http://www.satacables.com/html/sata_external_cables.html - SS-1ESES

I don't think anyone answered this question. It appeart that the G-Tech has a eSATA (Type "I") connector and thus you need a eSATA to eSATA cable (which is what you ordered).

When DMILANI made that statement there were no drives incorporating this new standard. There are now. Also it has taken a little bit of time for the "eSATA" designation to evolve from the SATA-II spec. eSATA, SATA-II, and now, "Type I" are all the same thing. It will take a couple of years for this all to shake out.

CAUTION: It has been pointed out that 500GBdrives may have problems with the 8300 as the memory in the 8300 may have problems supporting a drive that big (the list - or directory of recorded programs is stored in RAM.

GilWave

01-04-06, 02:16 PM

I don't think anyone answered this question. It appears that the G-Tech has a eSATA (Type "I") connector and thus you need a eSATA to eSATA cable (which is what you ordered). eSATA, SATA-II, and now, "Type I" are all the same thing. It will take a couple of years for this all to shake out.Thanks Dave, I appreciate the thorough answer. It is more than a little confusing, and reminds me of the SCSI nomenclature fiasco of the late 90's.

It has been pointed out that 500GBdrives may have problems with the 8300 as the memory in the 8300 may have problems supporting a drive that big (the list - or directory of recorded programs is stored in RAM.Yes, I've been reading through peoples posts regarding this, and I have been warned by the nice folks that sell 160, 250 and 300GB eSATA drives.

I am going into this with my eyes wide open, and fully expect to hit some snags, but hopefully in the end I'll get it to work. The G-Tech drive is the nicest looking, most well-constructed external drive I have ever seen - the build quality is first rate using quality components, and it looks right at home with my HT set-up, plus with the heatsink it is dead-quiet.

I need my wife to get off my back about recording full seasons of her favorite shows. The 160GB internal on the 8300 is anemic for HD content.

galen

01-04-06, 02:26 PM

Hello all,

I recently got a new 8300 with firewire/sata. It was brand new out of the box. I connected an external SATA drive (400 GB). I have now recorded over 24 hours of HD programing (mostly HD net). Under the DVR AVFS menu screen total av size is 500.7 GB. Apparently I am loosing about 50 GB between the OS and formating of the drives.

I have tried this for so long and had thought I bought an SATA drive for nothing. This same test failed with the older non-firewire 8300 but I would try it about once per month just to make sure the feature wasn't enabled.

This is awesome! I am continuing to record to see how many hours I can fit.

There is one strange thing to report. It seems that the live TV buffer doesn't work correctly. I will call warner later today to see if they have any suggestions.

notes/observations from my experience:
1. the 8300 does not ask if you want to format the drive. It formats the drive automatically during the cold boot cycle. You will notice that it will take longer for the boot cycle.
2. It seems that the external drive is primary unlike sara. I noticed heavy activity on the drive as soon as it was up and recording. I believe it is saving right to the new drive.

equipment:
generic external housing from newegg
same cruz sata cable as recommended in this thread
seagate sata drive 400GB

currently running PASS ECHO 1.8.112 Time Warner NYC

Now if warner could just implement the multi room setup that has been promised then I could ditch my old 8300....

:D

pepar

01-04-06, 04:29 PM

Roseylv

01-04-06, 04:53 PM

I'm wondering, is the "cold boot" enabled when you depress the Vol. + - along with the info button?
My equipment is similar to yours, although I am having no luck!!

MikeAlletto

01-04-06, 04:59 PM

CAUTION: It has been pointed out that 500GBdrives may have problems with the 8300 as the memory in the 8300 may have problems supporting a drive that big (the list - or directory of recorded programs is stored in RAM.

There is no evidence that the 8300HD box does or does not have definite problems. There are many folks here (me included) that have had a 500GB drive attached for months with no problems at all. In fact I would say there are more posts about problems with lesser capacity drives than there are with 500GB drives. So you could say that there is a caution out that drives of any capacity may have problems with the 8300, buyer beware. If it doesn't work in your setting it might be the drive, but it might also be your boxes software version, it might be your cabling, it might be your signal, it might be heat related, it might be a lot of things.

drivie

01-04-06, 05:01 PM

Just an FYI, I've been looking around for a decent SATA enclosure and I've found a couple of possible solutions. Does anyone own either of these?

Coolgear External SATA enclosure with USB and integrated power supply.
http://www.satagear.com/USBG-SATA-351B_SATA_3.5_inch_Enclosure.html

Vantec Nextar 3 eSATA enclosure. Apparently this one is coming soon.
http://www.vantecusa.com/home.html

Drivie

GilWave

01-04-06, 05:05 PM

Vantec Nextar 3 eSATA enclosure. Apparently this one is coming soon.That case looks suspiciously similar to the Maxtor QuickView case.

galen

01-04-06, 05:12 PM

Cold boot = power cable disconnected/reconnected

Alrighty, so I have had some time to play with the setup a little and have learned the following...

Spoke with warner regarding the buffer issue. Tier 2 said that I was missing some code on my box. They resent the code but it did not fix it.

I decided to disconnect power and remove the sata drive. The box booted quicker as expected and I was able to buffer live tv. Adding the sata may have some effect on buffering which doesn't make sense.

In addition I checked the "list" and all my programs were still listed without the drive connected but they did not play, obviously because the drive was not there. I also checked the DVR AVS menu again and it showed just the single drive.

Disconnected power and reconnected the drive. Booting took longer as expected and all my shows were playable again. Also looked at the DVR AVS with ext reconnected and it was back to 500.7GB.

So the question is "Is it worth it to lose live buffer for 500 GB of recording space?"

Could this be related to the 8300's capability (or lack there of) to handle big drives?

Anyone else with passport echo running into the same problem?

______________

breaking the storage barrier is painful process....

MikeAlletto

01-04-06, 05:15 PM

So the question is "Is it worth it to lose live buffer for 500 GB of recording space?"

Could this be related to the 8300's capability (or lack there of) to handle big drives?

I'd say its a passport software problem not a drive problem, the live buffer works fine on sara with a 500GB drive.

davehancock

01-04-06, 05:23 PM

galen,

You are the FIRST poster on this thread with Passport! So a lot of the knowledge expressed in this thread may not apply to you. I would suspect that your buffer issue relates, as you suspect, to your having an external drive. As us SARA customers don't have this buffer issue it would appear that, for the moment, you have a choice to make.

Did you tell the 2nd level support that you had an external drive? What was their reaction? Most cable companies won't acknowledge that the external drive works (so they don't have to support it). You might find some souls that are interested in exploring the issue (buffer doesn't work with external drive). And then again, you might run into a brick wall.

galen

01-04-06, 05:44 PM

DaveHancock,

Yeah, I wasn't sure if I was the first. I am just surprised it works at all. Keep in mind I have been trying this for months with my old non-firewire 8300 with zero success.

I was not able to speak directly with tier 2 on the last call to warner. I spoke with the tier 1 who relayed what the tech said. Keep in mind that most tier 1 don't even know what HDMI is so I doubt the tier 1 rep could have made it up.

The message relayed was that my buffer code was missing from the box. Perhaps adding the drive created a bug. For passport bugs are par for the course. Like I said I am just lucky to see that the AVS table reports 500 GB and that I can record so much.

I will attempt to call warner again and try to speak with a tier 2 tech directly, after all they actually know what a sidecar is.

vegggas

01-04-06, 06:38 PM

Galen,
Look around your diagnostic pages a bit more. The 500GB of Total space you noted is total space after the format and overhead only. You should be able to find a page that describes each partition, on each drive. Typically there will be three partitions per drive and your recording space available will be lower than expected. The AVFS partition will be the largest partition, and will indicate your true recording space available.

vegggas

galen

01-04-06, 07:03 PM

Veggas,

I checked it out.

Here's what I know is installed.

Internal 160 WD (capacity 148.9 GB from DVR info screen)
External 400 Seagate (no info reported onf DVR info screen)

I am also going by the DVR AVFS which shows total usable. It shows the following:

AV size 500.7 GB
AV capacity 500.7 GB
AV used space + AV free space = 500.7 GB

I would be perfectly happy with the loss of 60 GB for formatting and OS if I could just buffer properly for live TV.

_________________________
It's always good to be first.......

pepar

01-04-06, 07:11 PM

Veggas,

I checked it out.

Here's what I know is installed.

Internal 160 WD (capacity 148.9 GB from DVR info screen)
External 400 Seagate (no info reported onf DVR info screen)

I am going by the DVR AVS which shows total usable. It shows the following:

AV size 500.7 GB
AV capacity 500.7 GB
AV used space + AV free space = 500.7 GB

remember this is passport echo which may have different menu screens than sara.

I have Passport. It should list the devices - drives - separately. AT least my 2.2.020 version does.

galen

01-04-06, 07:19 PM

Veggas,

I have three dvr sub-menus

DVR INFO (internal DVR capacity{not free space} and model/ serial info)
DVR AVFS (reports availible usable recording space)
DVR ITFS (reports OS space in use)

I am also running only 1.8112. Are you able to run an external drive without any issues on version 2?

vegggas

01-04-06, 07:22 PM

davehancock

01-04-06, 07:36 PM

I think we should keep Passport in this thread (and change the title if appropriate). It is interesting to see what is happening with the "other" folks. Plus, I for one, participate in some other forums (Yahoo groups) that don't separate the two - so it is useful to know what is happening.

One issue that has not been resolved (I think) is the version of Passport that this works on. Could it be that this (eSATA) is a separate piece of software that is downloaded to enable it? Or perhaps something in firmware. What would the explanation be that it works (sort of) for galen with 1.8.112 but not for pepar with 2.2.020?

pepar

01-04-06, 07:38 PM

You should be able to see partition information for the buffer as well. I'm not in front of my machine, but there should be three partitions for each drive. The buffer will MOVE between the two depending on which drive has more free space.

Also, an earlier post mentions a cold reboot as unplugging the unit. To rebuild the OS data, do a hard reboot by holding down the power button while applying the power cable. Continue to hold for about 5- 10 seconds, or until you get a circular pattern on the screen.

What do you guys think about keeping the Passport info in this thread for now as opposed to starting a new passport thread? Seems the data is very similar so far, and the mods could eventually change the thread title if needed.

vegggas
SARA or Passport, the thread is 8300HD & SATA. I don't see a need to have a separate thread. Besides, it would be a lonely thread for quite some time.

I take galen at his word that it works, but I don't know what to make of it as I know that Aptiv is actively working on a version that supports SATA, the inference being that present versions do not.

galen

01-04-06, 07:44 PM

pepar

01-04-06, 07:44 PM

One issue that has not been resolved (I think) is the version of Passport that this works on. Could it be that this (eSATA) is a separate piece of software that is downloaded to enable it? Or perhaps something in firmware. What would the explanation be that it works (sort of) for galen with 1.8.112 but not for pepar with 2.2.020?
Honestly? I've never tried it. I accepted conventional wisdom along with the answer from my cableco's tech director that it's not presently supported, but will be in an upcoming firmware update. IOW, I "assumed."

pepar

01-04-06, 07:49 PM

DaveHancock,

The recording fucntionality works flawlessly. I am able to record and watch without issue. My only issue is the buffer functionality. It is just not buffering live TV, which I know is not 100% perfect.
Perhaps the upcoming version will address all of the incidentals involved with adding an external drive, including the one you mention. Perhaps it has basic functionality now, but with "issues."

galen

01-04-06, 07:51 PM

DaveHancock,

From what I have read, the sidecar functionality must be enabled. It is possible that it is not enable 2.2 version that it didn't work on.

vegggas

01-04-06, 07:59 PM

There is also the fact that Galen did not see any screens associated with the external connection. I don't think any of that software is written yet...

vegggas

galen

01-04-06, 08:10 PM

Well folks just wanted to let you know...

29 hours and still recording.

At this point I have recorded enough to ensure that the AVFS screen is true and that I am recording on the second drive.

I will keep you all posted on the live tv buffer issue.

--Veggaas I tried the power button trick while applying power. It didn't do anything just booted as usual.

davehancock

01-04-06, 08:38 PM

There is also the fact that Galen did not see any screens associated with the external connection. I don't think any of that software is written yet...

vegggas
Yeh, but it's Passport software - so the existing SARA paradigms may not apply.

davehancock

01-04-06, 08:40 PM

Honestly? I've never tried it. I accepted conventional wisdom along with the answer from my cableco's tech director that it's not presently supported, but will be in an upcoming firmware update. IOW, I "assumed."

Well, what are you waiting for? DMILANI tried it even when his cableco said it didn't work. You've been so active on this subject.

galen

01-04-06, 09:00 PM

Please remember that I never got a phone call from my cableco telling me the sata port was active. I just tried it again because I got a newer 8300 and hoped it would work.

jtymann

01-04-06, 10:52 PM

pepar

01-04-06, 11:06 PM

Well, what are you waiting for? DMILANI tried it even when his cableco said it didn't work. You've been so active on this subject.
Good point. I had been waiting for 500GB SATA-II drives, and now I'm waiting for them to drop in price, figuring that they'd be more affordable by the time the upgrade happens. Plus, I don't know what I'd do with a 500GB drive right now if it *didn't* work.

Still, maybe I'll wrangle something together to try it after my upcoming Mexican holiday . . .

jtymann

01-04-06, 11:29 PM

eSATA vs SATA/150 internal connection..

Is there a reason NOT to get an SATA II drive from a compatibility standpoint. I know its not necessary as far as the 8300 goes, I'm looking at the WD SE WD2500JS SATA II drive because its a couple bucks cheaper than its SATA/150 cousin.

I'm leaning towards the WD2500JS with the Vantec NST-360SU-BK case. Does anyone have any reason to believe that's not a good combination?

drivie

01-05-06, 01:17 AM

I did a little digging on the Vantec NST-360SU-BK.
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=370891&affiliate=yahoo

This looks like a really nice enclosure but I'm wondering if anyone has used this successfully.

It says it comes with an eSata to eSata cable, so if it works with the 8300, it's actually cheaper than the E-POWER EP-301SA/COMAC eSATA - SATA combo, which seems to get the most consistently positive feedback on this thread. I like the styling of it too, so if I can get a case&cable for < $50 "AND" it works, it seems like a no brainer.

Is the lack of a fan a real issue or is that just Chicken Little talking?

I like the Vantec enclosure as well. It's a good-looking enclosure but the question marks here are 1) Does it need a fan or does the metal case suffice 2) When will it be available 3) will it work well with the 8300HD and 4) the website mentions compatibility with drives up to 400GB so I wonder if a 500GB drive would work or not.

Also, the blue light on the front has to go...I don't like light pollution when I'm watching movies.

If you get one of these, please report back and let us know how it works out.

Drivie

pepar

01-05-06, 08:59 AM

I like the Vantec enclosure as well. It's a good-looking enclosure but the question marks here are 1) Does it need a fan or does the metal case suffice 2) When will it be available 3) will it work well with the 8300HD and 4) the website mentions compatibility with drives up to 400GB so I wonder if a 500GB drive would work or not.

Also, the blue light on the front has to go...I don't like light pollution when I'm watching movies.

If you get one of these, please report back and let us know how it works out.

Drivie
Enclosures that say anything about speeds supported have circuitry in the path to the output. Usually, those enclosures have multiple interfaces requiring the electronics. Some enclosures are solely SATA and usually have no circuitry. Any size drive available now or in the future will work in them.

jtymann

01-05-06, 11:53 AM

drivie

01-05-06, 11:56 AM

I'll let you know - I just ordered one - though I'm fine for now with a 250GB drive

http://newsite.pagecomputers.com/store/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Unclassified&category%5Fname=32g32c302s1287&product%5Fid=974023

Wirecutters baby...

Yikes, looks like you are taking your life into your own hands ordering from Page.

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1830.html

If you do get it, please keep up informed.

Thanks,

Drivie

jtymann

01-05-06, 01:53 PM

Yikes, looks like you are taking your life into your own hands ordering from Page.

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1830.html

If you do get it, please keep up informed.

Ouch... there are some pretty scary experiences there. I was going off the Price Grabber reseller ratings which are much more favorable:
http://www.pricegrabber.com/rating_getreview.php/r=386/m=15722408

But either way, it looks like they have a habit of listing things as being in stock when they don't have access to them. I think I'm going to hold my breath and hope for the best :eek:

I'll keep you posted

hotsko

01-05-06, 06:11 PM

Please remember that I never got a phone call from my cableco telling me the sata port was active. I just tried it again because I got a newer 8300 and hoped it would work.

Galen,

That is some truly amazing news!!!

I am in Bergen County, NJ and I believe that we are both part of TWCNY. I am going to try this tonight and report back.

I suspect, that the live buffer is exactly what others have said here. There requires an allocated area on the "active recording" disk for live buffering and it would appear that just by installing the 2nd drive, this area was not created on it. If my theory is correct, you might try the following...
1) Fill up the 2nd drive until it has less remaining capacity than the internal drive
2) delete a couple of shows from the internal drive so that will by default become the "default recording drive"
3) I bet the live buffer will work again until the "default recording drive" switches back to the external drive.

If this is correct, then there was a suggestion to force an OS rebuild (previous entry in this thread) which may take care of the problem by creating a "live buffer" region on the external drive as well.

Here's to you for being the first successful Passport/Sata user.
I am hoping to be the 2nd....

galen

01-05-06, 06:54 PM

hotsko,

Good luck just remember, it only worked for me on a 8300 with firewire/sata.

Hope you are the lucky second!

So far I have about 51 hours of only hd recorded.

I have studied the behavior of the box and learned that the box is buffering it is just not allowing me to forward and rewind/pause under certain conditions. If I watch a channel for a few minutes then press record, it actually saves the program from the moment I changed to that channel but still will not let me move within the show. If I schedule a show and turn to the channel after it starts the recording I am able to move within the show to the beginning or end and fast forward or rewind.

To sum up it is always buffering but I don't have the ability to manipulate the stream during live tv or unscheduled recordings at the time I record.

Also, found another anomily.

VOD does not work properly. Although I can access and play the VOD streams I get vertical blue blinds that cover the entire picture which makes it unwatchable. Occurs on all VOD channels. The cableco was stumped on that one too. Never heard of it before, I even spoke with the VOD "specialists" to no avail. They want to swap the dvr.

Anyone else have this problem with VOD?

galen

01-05-06, 06:57 PM

Anyone know how to reload the OS on the PASSP ECHO?

I tried the power button while applying power cord but it didn't work.

hotsko

01-05-06, 07:23 PM

Anyone know how to reload the OS on the PASSP ECHO?

I tried the power button while applying power cord but it didn't work.

Galen,

Let me know if the situation changes when the external has less capacity than the internal drive.

VOD is interesting. If you remove the external drive does VOD go back to normal?

Are you in Manhattan?

cajieboy

01-05-06, 08:37 PM

Galen,

That is some truly amazing news!!!

I am in Bergen County, NJ and I believe that we are both part of TWCNY. I am going to try this tonight and report back.

I suspect, that the live buffer is exactly what others have said here. There requires an allocated area on the "active recording" disk for live buffering and it would appear that just by installing the 2nd drive, this area was not created on it. If my theory is correct, you might try the following...
1) Fill up the 2nd drive until it has less remaining capacity than the internal drive
2) delete a couple of shows from the internal drive so that will by default become the "default recording drive"
3) I bet the live buffer will work again until the "default recording drive" switches back to the external drive.

If this is correct, then there was a suggestion to force an OS rebuild (previous entry in this thread) which may take care of the problem by creating a "live buffer" region on the external drive as well.

Here's to you for being the first successful Passport/Sata user.
I am hoping to be the 2nd....

VERY INTERESTING! This is what I've been awaiting. Last month, I got a new 8300 from Brighthouse Cable here in Central Florida, and if you guys can get an external drive to work w/Passport then I'd like to give it try as well. Please keep posting your results.

hotsko

01-05-06, 11:04 PM

VERY INTERESTING! This is what I've been awaiting. Last month, I got a new 8300 from Brighthouse Cable here in Central Florida, and if you guys can get an external drive to work w/Passport then I'd like to give it try as well. Please keep posting your results.

Well, you might have to wait a bit longer. I got home and first installed my new seagate 500 SataII in an external case with an eSata cable. I rebooted several times and the Passport 8300HD WITH Firewire (1 month old) running 1.8.112 never saw the drive.

Then, I replaced this drive with an 80Gb external SATA with a SATA 1 to eSATA cable, again no luck.

STB was rebooted several times.

All times the DVR info never mentioned a 2nd drive. DVR AFPS still shows 148.9Gb total and presently I have 6oGB used and 82GB free.

So I see no indication at all the the 8300HD sees either of these drives at all.

Galen, do you think you can post the firmware, OS version, etc from the STB diagnostics so that I might compare? This is driving me nuts!

Thanks,
Harold

cajieboy

01-06-06, 12:03 AM

That's a shame...geez, back to square one. Galen, could you be extremely specific on just how you got this thing to work? What is the exact model # of your Seagate?

pepar

01-06-06, 10:01 AM

Well, you might have to wait a bit longer. I got home and first installed my new seagate 500 SataII in an external case with an eSata cable. I rebooted several times and the Passport 8300HD WITH Firewire (1 month old) running 1.8.112 never saw the drive.

Then, I replaced this drive with an 80Gb external SATA with a SATA 1 to eSATA cable, again no luck.

STB was rebooted several times.

All times the DVR info never mentioned a 2nd drive. DVR AFPS still shows 148.9Gb total and presently I have 6oGB used and 82GB free.

So I see no indication at all the the 8300HD sees either of these drives at all.

Galen, do you think you can post the firmware, OS version, etc from the STB diagnostics so that I might compare? This is driving me nuts!
For those of us who have been following this avidly for six months or so, this is not a surprise. From sources that know, Passport's author Pioneer Digital for one, Passport does not presently support the SATA port. The latest reliable information is that a version will be released by 3/31 that *does* support it. That galen has gotten limited functionality is interesting and certainly gives him additional storage space - and braggin' rights! - but in no way is his rig 100% good to go. I'd be concerned that when the firmware *is* upgraded to support SATA, the system will reformat, repartition, etc and wipe out everything on the external drive.

cajieboy

01-06-06, 11:23 AM

For those of us who have been following this avidly for six months or so, this is not a surprise. From sources that know, Passport's author Pioneer Digital for one, Passport does not presently support the SATA port. The latest reliable information is that a version will be released by 3/31 that *does* support it. That galen has gotten limited functionality is interesting and certainly gives him additional storage space - and braggin' rights! - but in no way is his rig 100% good to go. I'd be concerned that when the firmware *is* upgraded to support SATA, the system will reformat, repartition, etc and wipe out everything on the external drive.

If SATA is not supported on Passport, then how in the dickens is Galen able to add an external HDD?? Inquiring minds would sure like to know the answer to this riddle. Galen's setup may not be 100%, but close enough for me to want it.

In regards to the upcoming promised Pioneer Passport update...how do you think this will be installed? Do you think a notification will be issued?

pepar

01-06-06, 11:40 AM

If SATA is not supported on Passport, then how in the dickens is Galen able to add an external HDD?? Inquiring minds would sure like to know the answer to this riddle. Galen's setup may not be 100%, but close enough for me to want it.

In regards to the upcoming promised Pioneer Passport update...how do you think this will be installed? Do you think a notification will be issued?
Though I may sound like it, I am not an expert on this. :) My best guess is that the 8300HD hardware (and what serves as a BIOS) knows about galen's external drive, but the software does not. galen's situation is unique, though, as NO ONE else has gotten it to work.

Like the Tooth Fairy, you would wake up one morning and - viola! - you've got a new version. Your cable provider will push it to the clients, i.e. your STB.

RaveD

01-06-06, 11:52 AM

In an attempt to fix the freezing problems I was having, I bought a brand new Maxtor MaxLine III 300GB drive to replace the DiamondMax 10. I did a full burn-in test with MaxBlast software, certified the drive error free. Did a full format on Windows XP. Ran a full CHKDSK with recovery of bad sectors. Drive was error free, zero bad sectors.

Installed the new drive in my E-Power enclosure, rebooted the 8300, it found it no problem.

Recorded a show to test. Still freezes. Possibly worse than before.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The only thing I have not changed is the enclosure, but I highly doubt that is the source of the problem since it works fine connected to my PC.

So now I am at wit's end. Is it time to reformat the internal drive on the 8300, or return the unit to the cable company for replacement?

MikeAlletto

01-06-06, 12:14 PM

So now I am at wit's end. Is it time to reformat the internal drive on the 8300, or return the unit to the cable company for replacement?

I would just return the cable box. You are just renting them, no point in fighting if it doesn't do what you want it to do.

galen

01-06-06, 02:29 PM

Ok, so I have about 55 hours saved. Late last night I turned on my box and like the "tooth fairy stopping by" buffering just worked. I tried recording some stuff and then the buffering stopped working after I stopped both recordings.

The today I turned it back on and voila buffering works even after I record on both tuners then cancel it. I can fw/rwd on demand recordings and live tv. I still have atleast 230 GB of free space availible on the DVR AVFS display menu. It appears to be perfect at this time, well at least DVR functionality.

When I called the cableco the last time the said an ticket was escalated to "IT" for this issue and sometime in the next 72 hours it would be attempted to be repaired. This is the only explaination for what happend that I can think of.

VOD still no success, and in fact I will just cancel the service because it's not that great anyway(when it works).

To sum up I am able to buffer/record live tv, schedule recordings and now manipulate any stream in all scenarios.

___________
Steps I took to install the drive....

1. I received a new 8300 firewire/sata drive
2. Before the first power up I connected my drive to the 8300
3. Applied power to external drive
4. Applied power 8300 (boot cycle took longer than usual on the dot screen)

The box never notified me that it installed the drive nor asked whether I wanted to format it. I then went to the diag menu and checked the DVR AVFS menu. It showed total capacity higher than normal.

This 8300 firewire/sata box has a western digital 160GB (not sure if it matters).

pepar

01-06-06, 02:52 PM

cajieboy

01-06-06, 03:10 PM

Galen, what is the exact model number of your Seagate? What exactly did you say to your Cable Co, and what was the stated problem that was escalated?

galen

01-06-06, 03:21 PM

Does your cable provider know about your added external drive? Did your box have it's present "issues" before adding it?

No I did not tell the cableco. I installed the drive on the first boot of the box when I received it. When I had the buffer issue I tested without the ext drive connected which worked but when I reconnected it I had the same issue. Now however it works like a charm and the only issue remaining is VOD, but with 55+ hours saved I have created my on VOD locally...LOL.

I have noticed that it is buffering live tv on the internal drive based on drive noise. Originally it was buffering on the external drive.

galen

01-06-06, 03:25 PM

Galen, what is the exact model number of your Seagate? What exactly did you say to your Cable Co, and what was the stated problem that was escalated?

seagate Model #: ST3400832AS

Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3400832AS 400GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive with NCQ - OEM

I bought my drive from newegg many months ago.

The last time I called and told the cableco that I could not buffer live TV they ran a remote diagnostic and created the ticket based on that information. I had called multiple times on this issue and during one of the earlier calls I was told that my box was missing the code to buffer.

galen

01-06-06, 04:21 PM

\
Galen, do you think you can post the firmware, OS version, etc from the STB diagnostics so that I might compare? This is driving me nuts!

Thanks,
Harold

Did you try uplugging for your reboot and waiting 20 secs before applying power?

from versions:
OS ver 6.14.43.3sp
ResApp Date: Aug 31, 2005
OS date Jul 6, 2005

from versions2:
OS , Home Server Edition 1.4
rel: Echo 1.8.112+OS:6.14.43.3841sp

GilWave

01-06-06, 10:14 PM

Finally got my G-Tech Q-drive with the new Hitachi 500GB 16MB cache 7200rpm SATA drive installed. Got the nice eSATA II to eSATA II cable from SATACables.com.

Followed the 8300HD manual instructions to the letter.

When I booted the 8300HD with the G-Tech powered up and connected, I got the "Drive found, proceed with format" message. I hit "Yes" and the display went away, live TV signal came up. I checked the DVR menu, no change in "Recording Space Used" level (75%) :(

Performed soft reboot, it took a few minutes. When I powered the 8300HD back on I got the "compatible external drive found" message. Clicked OK, checked the Recording Space Used level - 15%! :)

But wait - 160GB internal drive, 15 programs recorded, 75% used = 120GB of recorded material.

160GB internal plus 500GB external = 660GB total. Same 15 programs recorded, 15% used = 99GB of recorded material? How much space does the OS take up? Am I missing something?

Anyway, I checked the live buffering feature, no problems forward or backward.

The G-Tech looks right at home next to my 8300HD, and due to the heat-sink cooling it is ultra-quiet - I can only hear the drive itself, and then only when I put my ear up to the vent holes.

So far, so good.

-gil

hotsko

01-06-06, 10:49 PM

MikeAlletto

01-06-06, 11:18 PM

When I booted the 8300HD with the G-Tech powered up and connected, I got the "Drive found, proceed with format" message. I hit "Yes" and the display went away, live TV signal came up. I checked the DVR menu, no change in "Recording Space Used" level (75%)

Even though you got it working you need to wait until it comes back with another screen that says it has finished formatting. Hitting yes just tells it to start formatting, not that its ready to use yet.

GilWave

01-06-06, 11:24 PM

Even though you got it working you need to wait until it comes back with another screen that says it has finished formatting. Hitting yes just tells it to start formatting, not that its ready to use yet.How long should it have taken to display that screen? I waited for over an hour.

vegggas

01-07-06, 03:12 AM

But wait - 160GB internal drive, 15 programs recorded, 75% used = 120GB of recorded material.

160GB internal plus 500GB external = 660GB total. Same 15 programs recorded, 15% used = 99GB of recorded material? How much space does the OS take up? Am I missing something?
-gil
You are missing something. The bigger the drive, the more overhead loss there is. Read back a few pages. It was discussed in full a while ago.
Go look at the diagnostic pages for the individual HDD drive capacity and partitions. you will notice on one page, it mentions capacity, which is TOTAL capacity after formatting (sounds good, right). Then another page listing all the partitions, which will NOT add up to that listed capacity. Somewhere, something is mising. This is your ovehead loss, which increases as your drive size increases.
Here are my specifics with a 300GB drive.
Capacity = 279 GB
Partition 1 = 1 GB
Partition 2 = 259 GB
Partition 3 = 1 GB
That means an overhead loss of 18 GB!
vegggas

GilWave

01-07-06, 04:42 AM

Go look at the diagnostic pages for the individual HDD drive capacity and partitions. you will notice on one page, it mentions capacity, which is TOTAL capacity after formatting (sounds good, right). Then another page listing all the partitions, which will NOT add up to that listed capacity.Thanks vegggas. On page 31 of 33, HDD INFO, I get 2 columns, Device ID 1 and 2

Under each it says Unavailable for Model, Serial, Capacity, Removeable. Same thing, unavailable, on page 32/33 and 33/33 under Partition Info. Have I done something wrong?

Page 21/33, DVR HDD Information lists the internal drive as a Western Digital 160GB, Size: 312450730.

Under File Systems - ITFS, Size: 2097152 Capacity: 1048576 Free Space: 971875
AVFS, Size: 1246134500 Capacity: 265135 Free Space: 207716

drcos

01-07-06, 09:26 AM

VOD? Down here with Comcast, you cannot record (or buffer) VOD or MusicChoice.

For myself for Christmas, got the 250GB drive from Discountechnology. With SARA 1.87.23.1, went from 34% to 13% (now up to 22% after recording an additional 4 hrs of HD and 3 hrs of SD).
I am worried that the enclosure has no fan, although the drive doesn't seem to be getting too hot (so far).

knoppe01

01-07-06, 10:51 AM

Thanks vegggas. On page 31 of 33, HDD INFO, I get 2 columns, Device ID 1 and 2

Under each it says Unavailable for Model, Serial, Capacity, Removeable. Same thing, unavailable, on page 32/33 and 33/33 under Partition Info. Have I done something wrong?

Page 21/33, DVR HDD Information lists the internal drive as a Western Digital 160GB, Size: 312450730.

Under File Systems - ITFS, Size: 2097152 Capacity: 1048576 Free Space: 971875
AVFS, Size: 1246134500 Capacity: 265135 Free Space: 207716

GilWave I have the same thing no info listed on the HDD page. I'm presuming you have calblevision with SARA like me - that might be the difference, I beleive Galen is using Passport - maybe the 2 different operating systems report different info ? In ant event it works.

GilWave

01-07-06, 11:03 AM

GilWave I have the same thing no info listed on the HDD page. I'm presuming you have calblevision with SARA like me - that might be the difference, I beleive Galen is using Passport - maybe the 2 different operating systems report different info ? In ant event it works.Interesting. What is vegggas running? I assumed his was SARA as well.

I am on CableVision. Isn't it odd that SARA doesn't recognize or report these important details?

vegggas

01-07-06, 04:22 PM

Cablevision is using their own version of SARA that is not the same as everyone else. Their screens, pages, features, etc. are all different. This is why you are not seeing the screens telling you that the drive has been formatted and is ready for use and do not have all the diagnostic information.
Gilwave, your total AVFS is reported 623GB, but there is no report of how much of that is available as USABLE space. The figures work out to just the formatting size of each drive as 150GB and 473GB, but it is not deriving how much overhead is lost on the larger drive. I would guess that you are closer to having about 450GB of space on the new drive, but i would have to recheck this.

Galen, has a particular STB, where the SATA port was not turned off before deployment. His Passport software still does not support the SATA drive, and it's working from the hardware level while everyone else's SATA port should be turned off.

vegggas

cajieboy

01-07-06, 04:37 PM

veggas, how can I tell if I too have a similar 8300 as Galen???

pepar

01-07-06, 05:20 PM

veggas, how can I tell if I too have a similar 8300 as Galen???
Ummmm . . try it?

cajieboy

01-07-06, 05:42 PM

Well, I'd like to "find out" before going down to the store and plunking down a few hundred bucks on a hard drive & cables. Is there an inexpensive way to determine if my 8300 would work?

MikeAlletto

01-08-06, 12:43 AM

How long should it have taken to display that screen? I waited for over an hour.

Yeah thats too long. It popped up with a 500GB drive in about a minute or so.

pepar

01-08-06, 10:10 AM

Well, I'd like to "find out" before going down to the store and plunking down a few hundred bucks on a hard drive & cables. Is there an inexpensive way to determine if my 8300 would work?
No, there is not.

If your cable system runs Passport, there is a humongous chance you are wasting your time and money. I've seen no other posters besides galen successfully attaching an external drive to a Passport box. And galen's can't really be described as success as it doesn't seem to be completely stable, and may be contributing to some other features not working correctly. Everyone with Passport needs to relax and forget about attaching an external drive until Passport officially supports the SATA port. I will continue to participate in this thread and read with GREAT interest galen's SATA adventures, but until more - many more - Passport posters have success I think it is a waste of time - for me - to spend one penny or take one second trying it on my Passport 8300HD. Your mileage may vary.

Just my $.02.

cajieboy

01-08-06, 10:21 AM

Thanx Prepar, that's exactly what I needed to know.

GilWave

01-08-06, 11:12 AM

Yeah thats too long. It popped up with a 500GB drive in about a minute or so.Thanks Mike. Did it also show up in all your Diagnostics menu?

-g

CANNON-FODDER

01-08-06, 11:26 AM

Krustola

01-08-06, 02:10 PM

Hi all,

Long time reader first time poster.

Have installed a 300GB Maxtor drive in a Kingwin enclosure, with the Sonnet cable. Everything works great, except:

Every time I switch the box off, it reboots itself. Immediately after switching off, it will show the channel number of the channel I was just watching, and then shows the time; then it shows the channel number again, then it does a reboot. This only started when I added the external hard drive.

This is very annoying if something happens to be recording when I switch off the box.

I have recently switched over to using HDMI, instead of component.

I would very much like to avoid a hard reboot if possible, I now have a lot of stuff on the 2 drives...

Anyone have any ideas? Any help appreciated.

pepar

01-08-06, 07:26 PM

[those with easily twisted underwear please ignore]

Just wondering about how the Passport boxes come configured? Eliminating running changes in the SA line, what if his head-end just types in the information on the label to authorize a new box - without any other configuration? Could the success then be caused by the SATA drive attachment before the first boot? Maybe there is a window of opportunity to let the BIOS or base OS recognize the external drive before the application software comes up and sets the configuration?

v/r,
C-F
By Jove, I think you've got it.

Passport users can:

1) Breathlessly order a Maxtor Quickview, or equivalant components (some assembly required)
2] Attach same to 8300HD and:

a] find that it works - sorta, but now some other things don't
b] it doesn't work

OR

3] Inhale. Chill. Enjoy a hi-def DVR that generally WORKS WELL and is a real bright spot on an otherwise bleak hi-def-content-delivery-system landscape.

:)

galen

01-08-06, 07:27 PM

Galen,

Can you tell me what brand and where you got your external case (make and model) and sata/esata cable?
My drive is very similar to yours so I dont think thats it. I want to give it one more shot with the exact same cable and enclosure as you have.
Thanks,
Harold

Hotsko,

I am using the cruz cable recommended at the beginning of this thread.

Enclosure is:

E-POWER EP-301SA 3.5" SATA External Enclosure - Retail

from newegg

~G

gcrawford

01-09-06, 04:59 PM

cajieboy

01-09-06, 05:05 PM

I have an 8300SD which does have an SATA port on the back. Does anyone know if this port is active? Will it work with the external SATA solution posted on this thread? I have my order in for a 300Gb Seagate Barracuda drive from Newegg, an Apricorn enclosure and the cable from Cruz for my 8300 HD. Was just wondering if any have tried this with the standard def box.

Thanks.

As far I can tell, Galen is the only person that has been able to use an external HDD w/the 8300 & Passport OS. Please let us know if you become the 2nd person to get this to work. Could you put what area you are from as a lot of this stuff is area specific.

gcrawford

01-09-06, 09:24 PM

cajieboy

01-09-06, 10:28 PM

This thread includes BOTH SARA & PASSPORT.

vegggas

01-09-06, 10:33 PM

Not using passport software, as this is not the passport thread. Using SARA 1.88.12.2. I guess I can test this once my stuff arrives, but am curious to see if anyone has seen this work on a non HD box.........

-g
Yes, It works on SD boxes. Your version number, however, sounds like you are on a cablevision system. This may or may not be a problem.
Edit your file to show your location, or we can't really help you, since all systems are different with varying software and local issues.

vegggas

pepar

01-09-06, 11:32 PM

Yes, It works on SD boxes. Your version number, however, sounds like you are on a cablevision system. This may or may not be a problem.
Edit your file to show your location, or we can't really help you, since all systems are different with varying software and local issues.

vegggas
And then on the other hand, he could use the search function.

gcrawford

01-10-06, 10:40 AM

I didn't mean to step on any toes here.

Thanks for the useful info!

-g

Danabw

01-10-06, 08:24 PM

I have everything I need to try on a Passport SA8300HD w/the SATA port except the SATAI to SATAII cable (my enclosure uses a SATAI port and the SA8300HD uses a SATAII port). I had an extra 300G drive already, and wanted another external HD enclosure anyway, so those parts were easy. No local vendors appear to have the SATAI to SATAII cable, and I refuse to pay $5 - $7 in shipping charges for a ounce or so of cable.

I'd love to give it a try...if anyone has a SATAI to SATAII cable lying around that they would trust mailing to me to give it a try, I'll be happy to be another Passport ginuea pig.

PM me if you are interested...I've been on this forum for quite a while now and won't rip you off or anything...I'll return the cable after the test.

I'm actually quite happy waiting for "real" support to come, but you know how it is, this kind of stuff is just plain fun to try for the sake of trying.... :D

jtymann

01-12-06, 02:51 PM

I like the Vantec enclosure as well. It's a good-looking enclosure but the question marks here are 1) Does it need a fan or does the metal case suffice 2) When will it be available 3) will it work well with the 8300HD and 4) the website mentions compatibility with drives up to 400GB so I wonder if a 500GB drive would work or not.

Also, the blue light on the front has to go...I don't like light pollution when I'm watching movies.

If you get one of these, please report back and let us know how it works out.

Drivie

Recieved the Vantec NST-360SU-BK yesterday - mounted my WD SE WD2500JS 250GB Serial ATA II drive.

Used the eSata cable included with the unit and added it in about 1 minute (SARA). Went from 37% to %11% used space.

Super quiet and is only moderately warm even without a fan.

Looks real nice - the blue light on the front goes to a dedicated ribbon cable connector which you can choose to either plug in or leave unplugged. So far so good. Total price $146.90 shipped

GilWave

01-12-06, 03:04 PM

Looks real nice - the blue light on the front goes to a dedicated ribbon cable connector which you can choose to either plug in or leave unplugged. So far so good. Total price $146.90 shippedSweet!! Great value for the money. So a 500GB version would run about $300 I guess.

What does your 8300 say for total capacity now?

-g

Danabw

01-12-06, 07:17 PM

Sweet!! Great value for the money. So a 500GB version would run about $300 I guess.

What does your 8300 say for total capacity now?

-g

From product specs on two different sites...

- Supports Up to 400GB Hard Drives

GilWave

01-12-06, 08:23 PM

From product specs on two different sites... - Supports Up to 400GB Hard DrivesWhy would a case be limited to drive size? Heat dissipation?

drivie

01-12-06, 08:47 PM

Recieved the Vantec NST-360SU-BK yesterday - mounted my WD SE WD2500JS 250GB Serial ATA II drive.

Used the eSata cable included with the unit and added it in about 1 minute (SARA). Went from 37% to %11% used space.

Super quiet and is only moderately warm even without a fan.

Looks real nice - the blue light on the front goes to a dedicated ribbon cable connector which you can choose to either plug in or leave unplugged. So far so good. Total price $146.90 shipped

Cool deal! Thanks for the update. I think I may go with that case as I like the design pretty well. Have you recorded and played back very much material on the external drive yet? Wondering if you have experienced any issues.

Thanks,

Drivie

jtymann

01-12-06, 11:53 PM

Sweet!! Great value for the money. So a 500GB version would run about $300 I guess.

What does your 8300 say for total capacity now?

-g

Its reporting 152GB (internal) + 232 (external)

SARA 1.87.23.1

As far as bigger sizes, price/GB is definitely not linear - best value seems to be around 250/300GB. And then, of course, there is the stated max of 400GB on the enclosure - not sure that it's a hard limit though

jtymann

01-13-06, 12:09 AM

Cool deal! Thanks for the update. I think I may go with that case as I like the design pretty well. Have you recorded and played back very much material on the external drive yet? Wondering if you have experienced any issues.

Thanks,

Drivie

Working on filling it to test it - so far, I've added 5-6 hrs of HD and it hasn't made much of a dent. I'll record a couple HD channels overnight see how it goes.

pepar

01-13-06, 08:24 AM

Its reporting 152GB (internal) + 232 (external)

SARA 1.87.23.1

As far as bigger sizes, price/GB is definitely not linear - best value seems to be around 250/300GB. And then, of course, there is the stated max of 400GB on the enclosure - not sure that it's a hard limit though
It probably is. Enclosures that say ANYTHING about supporting capacities "up to" have circuitry in the data path. Usually, it is because they interface an SATA drive with SATA, USB and/or Firewire. Some enclosure are strictly SATA-to-SATA and most of them are straight through and use only cabling inside; some are designed so that the connector plugging into the drive is "double-ended" and serves as the external connector as well. Those enclosures can be used with any drive, present or future.

jtymann

01-13-06, 10:11 AM

It probably is. Enclosures that say ANYTHING about supporting capacities "up to" have circuitry in the data path. Usually, it is because they interface an SATA drive with SATA, USB and/or Firewire. Some enclosure are strictly SATA-to-SATA and most of them are straight through and use only cabling inside; some are designed so that the connector plugging into the drive is "double-ended" and serves as the external connector as well. Those enclosures can be used with any drive, present or future.

That would make sense - there is circuitry in the case to handle the eSata & USB2.0 interfaces. I recorded iNHD2 and DiscoveryHD all night and finally got to the point where I'm recording on the external drive.

Does anyone know a way to determine what drive a specific recording is on? Even if it's just an directory with timestamps of recordings?

LJG

01-13-06, 11:16 AM

Help...

SA8300 won't reboot, trid series of hard boots and the SA 8300 powers off and does not power back on when I hit the power button all I get is the Icon of the clock- I tried disconnecting the SATA external drive but that did not help, I hope all my SATA drive recordings are not in jeopardy

pepar

01-13-06, 12:31 PM

gregoryperkins

01-13-06, 01:49 PM

I tried searching through this large thread, but I'm still not sure if I missed something similar to what I want to do.

http://store.yahoo.com/cooldrives/mi4sapomu3ge.html has an enclosure that allows you to put up to 4 sata drives in it, but connect it via a single sata cable. One post said that the 8300 wouldn't see it as a single drive, but would that matter? It already accomodates 2, the internal and the external. Would it just format and use all 4 drives, use only one, or gag and die?

LJG

01-13-06, 01:53 PM

No HDCP compliant should I disconnnect the DVI?

pepar

01-13-06, 02:03 PM

pepar

01-13-06, 02:05 PM

No HDCP compliant should I disconnnect the DVI?
The box will output only a warning if HDMI is used w/o an HDCP compliant display attached. The clock will display as well as some little icon - perhaps the one you mention - but will not output anything else, including audio.

LJG

01-13-06, 02:41 PM

Not the issue I disconnected HDMI still will not power on

gregoryperkins

01-13-06, 06:11 PM

Are we sure it only wants to see one drive? I'm going to need a lot of storage for the world cup! I'm thinking about trying it with 2 drives and if it doesn't work, just using it on a PC.

VideoRoy

01-13-06, 08:53 PM

I have gotten really confused with the external cable. I tried to find one locally which I thought would not be too difficult in Houston but I get a lot of strange looks.

Is eSATA the same as SATA II or does eSATA come in either SATA or SATA II versions. Even the Serial ATA standards committee sites are not very clear.

Thanks.

davehancock

01-13-06, 10:27 PM

VideoRoy

01-13-06, 10:35 PM

SATA II = eSATA. But you probably need a cable with the original SATA I one one end and eSATA on the other.

I've also seen the designation "type L" for the original SATA ad "type I" for eSATA/SATA II. If you look at the end of the connector - that describes the difference.
Thanks for the help. I found a couple of pictures of connectors but still not very clear. I am a storage guy but I really have not dealt much with SATA cables mostly backplane stuff.

I think I will probably just call one of the online places listed here and order it. I have all the parts but the cable.

I appreciate the help.

Danabw

01-14-06, 09:35 PM

Thanks for the help. I found a couple of pictures of connectors but still not very clear. I am a storage guy but I really have not dealt much with SATA cables mostly backplane stuff.

I think I will probably just call one of the online places listed here and order it. I have all the parts but the cable.

I appreciate the help.

Here's a picture of eSATA (or SATAII) and the SATA (or SATAI) connectors:

http://www.cooldrives.com/10satsaexca3.html

VideoRoy

01-14-06, 11:35 PM

Here's a picture of eSATA (or SATAII) and the SATA (or SATAI) connectors:

http://www.cooldrives.com/10satsaexca3.html
Thanks! I actually tried taking a picture on the back of my unit tonight and it did not turn out will this is a big help.

pepar

01-15-06, 05:03 PM

Not the issue I disconnected HDMI still will not power onCall your provider's tech support. They might have better mojo. Or they may swap it.

pepar

01-15-06, 05:13 PM

Are we sure it only wants to see one drive? I'm going to need a lot of storage for the world cup! I'm thinking about trying it with 2 drives and if it doesn't work, just using it on a PC.
I'm positive. One drive - one single drive. Period. You could rent additional 8300HDs to temporarily add more storage.

I'll qualify my "one drive" statement with this: There is one manufacturer, Silicon Image, that has something they call Steelvine Technology to do exactly what you're asking about - essentially a RAID array that "looks" like one drive. There's a catch though; a 1TB array is around $3k. And then there's the position of some here that the 8300HD can only address - or keep track of - a finite amouint of storage. I don't think anyone's run into it yet, but it supposedly exists. Something about memory. Seach this thread for posts by vegggas. (Yes, three gees.)

Seriously, get some additional boxes for the World Cup.

bymyhand

01-15-06, 09:46 PM

Does anyone know if the external Sata HD works with Cox in Phoxenix, Az. If it works for one location does it means that it can work for any Cox customer?

Thanks for the help,
ByMyHand

romanesq

01-16-06, 07:01 PM

I'm positive. One drive - one single drive. Period. You could rent additional 8300HDs to temporarily add more storage.

I'll qualify my "one drive" statement with this: There is one manufacturer, Silicon Image, that has something they call Steelvine Technology to do exactly what you're asking about - essentially a RAID array that "looks" like one drive. There's a catch though; a 1TB array is around $3k. And then there's the position of some here that the 8300HD can only address - or keep track of - a finite amouint of storage. I don't think anyone's run into it yet, but it supposedly exists. Something about memory. Seach this thread for posts by vegggas. (Yes, three gees.)

Seriously, get some additional boxes for the World Cup.

You can only install one additional external drive based on the Scientific Atlanta 8300 instructions. So in preparation for the mighty World Cup, I just got the Hitachi 500GB installed today. Everything went smoothly on the power down and after a reboot the space went from 99% to 22%. Watching some basketball and scrolled back a bit and in a short replay no problems with playback.

I'm all set for the World Cup now with the external 500GB. Using the Newegg external drive it sits on the bottom shelf on a stand behind the couch and the fan is quiet. Shoot I might just buy another 500 GB Hitachi and swap it out before the games. Then record everything and keep the HD with all the World Cup games for future viewing.

(All the videocassetes I have of the World Cup since 86 don't get much of a workout.)

SDchargers

01-17-06, 12:30 AM

Has anyone here used or is currently using a Metal Gear Box Enclosure for their external SATA HD? I'm wondering if I should pick one up or not. I know they're flimsy enclosures but I like the bling effect of the neon lights on it. It's vented enclosure may be a bit noisy but I plan on cranking up the volume on TV anyway to drown the drive activity. :cool:

djones18

01-17-06, 10:34 AM

pepar

01-17-06, 12:23 PM

You can only install one additional external drive based on the Scientific Atlanta 8300 instructions. So in preparation for the mighty World Cup, I just got the Hitachi 500GB installed today. Everything went smoothly on the power down and after a reboot the space went from 99% to 22%. Watching some basketball and scrolled back a bit and in a short replay no problems with playback.

I'm all set for the World Cup now with the external 500GB. Using the Newegg external drive it sits on the bottom shelf on a stand behind the couch and the fan is quiet. Shoot I might just buy another 500 GB Hitachi and swap it out before the games. Then record everything and keep the HD with all the World Cup games for future viewing.

(All the videocassetes I have of the World Cup since 86 don't get much of a workout.)
I'm 99.9999% sure you cannot "swap" drives. The reason I'm not 100% sure is because one poster reports being able to do that, though we're not sure it's not a glitch unique to him.

davehancock

01-17-06, 12:38 PM

I agree (80%) with pepar. The worst part is that you might try it out on a limited basis and then find that everything is lost on a more "full scale" basis. The issue is going to be the directory (list) and how it would keep track of two different external drives (it likely won't as 2 distinct drives). What I am afraid of is that it might work some, but fail as the directory grows.

My 20% thought is that it MIGHT work if you do a hard reboot when changing drives. From what others have said, I believe that when that is done, a new directory is built from the internal and external drives. If that is correct, you could make a new list each time you switched external drives. To do a HARD reboot, unplug the 8300 Power and after a short delay (30 sec) plug the 8300 back in WHILE HOLDING the front panel POWER button. Contine to hold until the "go around" appears on the front panel.

It would really be neat if we had more experimetation in this area so we had a more definate understanding of the issue.

galen

01-17-06, 01:57 PM

In efforts to further explore the capabilities of the 8300 and sata I was able to get a dispatch and new 8300.

I plugged the old drive in that I knew worked on the other 8300 and nothing. (Yes I knew that it should erase everything on the drive) I let it sit there for days and still nothing. I bought a new drive believing that it might possibly require a clean formatted drive(didn't have a way to format the old one). Well you guessed nothing happened no added space showed up in the AVFS.

So I put the old drive back on the old 8300 (which was running and recording without the drive for 4 days straight.) Well it didn't recognize it and I could access the shows that were there according to the list. I am not sure if it was formatted by the new 8300. Anyway I accidently unplugged the power to hard drive and then remembered.....

When I got the first 8300/fire I uplugged the SATA cable while it was running and the box froze(as a test). When I did this on the non-fire 8300 the box didn't flinch. This is how I knew the box saw the SATA drive. It was only after that I was able to record to 500.7 GB. So I plugged the power back in the SATA drive, did a soft reboot using the power button and viola I got my 500.7 back again.

Preliminary Conclusion: the 8300/fire Passp requires this strange process to force it to see the external drive. I did also lose the capability to pause live tv again but I am happy to see the 500.7 again.

I will attempt to test this on the other new box sometime in the next week.

Keep in mind that this "procedure" may cause problems with your box ie, no pause for live tv and I still have the VOD blue screen problem as well ( no vod does not change if I try it without the SATA connected).

On the bottom of my 8300 it has a sticker that shows REV 2.2

Good hunting.

(Try this at your own risk but keep in mind you don't own the box anyway..lol)

Procedure:
1. make all connections
2. power up sata drive
3. power up 8300
4. watch tv
5. disconnect sata or power for sata (yes while it is running, picture should freeze)
6. power up or reconnect sata
7. soft or hard boot the 8300
8. check your AVFS menu for you new drive

doze

01-17-06, 06:52 PM

Very successful external drive install on COX 8300HD DVR, Fairfax, Virginia:

- Vantec NEXSTAR 3 NST-360SU-BK eSATA and USB Interface Enclosure
- Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6V250F0 250GB SATA II Drive

1. ZipZoomfly.com sent in four days. Shipping free.

2. I've never put a hard drive/external case together. Took 5 minutes.
a. Drive installs easily into case.
b. All cables provided including correct eSATA to eSATA cable.

3. Followed hookup/startup procedures noted in these threads.

4. Upon turn-on, 8300HD immediately recognized external drive. Asked if I wanted to format drive. I accepted and drive was immediately added to my 8300HD system.

5. Diagnosis screen indicates I now have 153GB internal and 233GB external.

So Cool...thanks to everyone here. Would never have known this could be done so quickly and inexpensively if not for you!!

Cheers :)

Got my Vantec enclosure today from Newegg and used a 160Gb WD SATA drive I already had. 8300HD is from Adelphia. I followed the directions in this Scientific Atlanta PDF http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf

The whole thing took 10 minutes. I was very impressed with the ease of installation and construction of the Vantec

romanesq

01-17-06, 08:58 PM

I'm 99.9999% sure you cannot "swap" drives. The reason I'm not 100% sure is because one poster reports being able to do that, though we're not sure it's not a glitch unique to him.

I think if you power everything down properly pop in another HDD into the case and power up in the correct order the software should tell you there is a drive present and do you wish to format.

If the plug can be pulled and the drive show it's no longer available, it would seem logical it would read the availability of another external drive.

Well I won't know until the World Cup. Because I don't intend to disconnect the Hitachi 500GB until then. At that point, I'l try another 500 GB drive. If it doesn't work, I'll just keep it for some music backups.

VideoRoy

01-18-06, 10:33 PM

Got my Vantec enclosure today from Newegg and used a 160Gb WD SATA drive I already had. 8300HD is from Adelphia. I followed the directions in this Scientific Atlanta PDF http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003986.pdf

The whole thing took 10 minutes. I was very impressed with the ease of installation and construction of the Vantec
I ordered an enclosure and cable from another reseller but they are back ordered. Does the Vantec enclosure come with the correct eSATA cable for the 8300HD?

mkerdman

01-18-06, 11:58 PM

Has anyone's cable system enabled the ability to share playback of recorded programs between 2 or more SA 8300HD's over the coax distribution within the home?

pepar

01-19-06, 01:53 PM

Has anyone's cable system enabled the ability to share playback of recorded programs between 2 or more SA 8300HD's over the coax distribution within the home?
I *think* the multi-room boxes - and the ARE different than the ones we have now - are still being beta tested. At least that's what my provider tells me.

EDIT: A further comment is that it is my understanding that technically it will not be "distribution over coax within the home" but rather the recording will stream to the cableco's headend and THEN back to the other box. That seems unduly and unnecessarily complicated and I'm not sure I understand why they would do that. Perhaps it's DRM-related.

CANNON-FODDER

01-19-06, 02:11 PM

pepar

01-19-06, 02:33 PM

At one time there was some talk about some special splitter for the home with the MR-DVR, so that the signal was local and contained. Maybe there was no good way to isolate the MR-DVR transmitter/signal and still allow 2-way to the head-end for the client boxes when they are not being used exclusively as clients of the MR-DVR. Reducing VOD and PPV to only one box could reduce chances of revenue and might raise some attention.
I wish they'd let us use our CAT6 ethernet cabling. It sounds like the upcoming hi-def optical formats might let us do that. At least I'm fortunate enough to have all RG6 homeruns to all TV locations. I'm ready for the future whatever it may be!