Huh? On my box, there's no difference between tuning to the channel being recorded vs. selecting the recording in progress from the DVR menu. Both methods dump you into the program "live", forcing you to manually rewind back to the beginning. (I use SARA v1.87.16.1)

When I do as I said I don't have a problem; when I do it the other way, I have a problem. We are talking about some bug in the box if you ask me so it doesn't really have to make much logical sense. If it doesn't work for others, I guess I'm lucky.

That would work if everyone were running the same version (likey 1.88.x.x) as you are and had that option. Unfortunately, many are still using 1.87.x.x software and it doesn't have a "Start From Beginnng" option when joining a recording in progress. :)

ah, i see now...sorry, thought everyone was basically far enough in the sara software to have that option...guess we know what solves the problem then :)

That version seems to give other cableco's fits and only some (mostly Cablevision) have been able to get it stable enough to use. It sure would be nice to have the new options though. :)

ah, i see now...sorry, thought everyone was basically far enough in the sara software to have that option...guess we know what solves the problem then :)Well, no, not really. I'm apparently using an earlier version of the software than you are and have never had the problem...

Well, no, not really. I'm apparently using an earlier version of the software than you are and have never had the problem...

you've been lucky, but for those who have had the problem, myself included, having the option to select the recording from the dvr list and selecting play from beginning seems to have solved the problem...

For various reasons I am currently convinced that this problem (recordings ending prematurely) is related to SW and to IPG data. I believe that having an external drive may relate to the problem, but the problem is not a defective drive.

Ben said: In my Academy Awards experience I went to the program from the list as you suggested - and had the problem. Also, other occurances of this problem have happened when I did not look at all at the program being recorded till the program was over.

I probably record 30-40 hrs of programs (mostly in HD) per week, and only have had the problem on network stations (no HBO, or Showtime problems) and also only during prime time hours. I only seem to have the problem once a week or less (usually less).

i guess then if you have the sara version that allows you to select play from beginning it is not the silver bullet...i'll keep my fingers crossed that i don't ever lose a program, like 24 :eek:

I listed an extra MAXTOR Quickview on eBay. $200US. A good deal.

item number 8773712094

Good luck.
btw this is an extra one that I ordered and it was never opened, installed etc. FULL WARRANTY.
-Bill. :)

It (partial recording) has happend on both my 8300 (with Ext HDD) and my 8000 (w/o Ext HDD). It is most llikely to happen if I am watching a delayed program and catch up to the live feed by pressing FF.
I have confirmed that as Hookbill describes, the recording indicator remains lit and says it is recording, but the program (remaining) is not there. I can almost make this happen if I want it to with the above method if the STB has not been rebooted recently.
The problem has ONLY happend on local stations during primetime. In each case, my best educated guess has been a memory problem that disrupted the mpeg stream and failed to continue recording. Those with external drives are MORE likely to see the issue due to the increased memory issues with extended catalog files and header information being stored in ram with the external drive.
So, would it be a good thing to routinely - once per week perhaps - reboot our boxrs?

I gave up too for the same reasons mentioned above. Eric

Is the recordings stopping early problem perhaps related to my locking up issue? When my box locks up, it will sometimes come back without my rebooting it. The whole time, when it's locked up and when it comes back, the recording light STAYS LIT. But, when it comes back, even though the recording light is lit, the box can't see the ext. drive. So, I could see how this could cause a program to stop prematurely.

Hookbill, if I'm right, then it's possible that as you were watching the recording light stay lit (with your TV and everything off I'm assuming, right?), the box froze, then came back. You never knew it happened because you weren't watching TV to see it freeze, and the recording light stayed lit. The moment it froze is the moment you lose the remainder of the recording.

Now, this would only be correct if after the recording is done, you try to play a show on the ext. drive and it fails. This would indicate that the box no longer sees the drive, which is consistent with my situation. So that's my question: Have you ever tried to play a program that is on the ext. hdd immediately after a program that stops recording prematurely is done recording?

Haha, say that ten times fast. Anyways, my wife and I have been pondering this, and I'm just throwing stuff out there. As someone mentioned earlier, my geek pride would take a SEVERE hit if I had to disconnect this drive and relegate it to "backup for NAS" status. :(

It (partial recording) has happend on both my 8300 (with Ext HDD) and my 8000 (w/o Ext HDD). It is most llikely to happen if I am watching a delayed program and catch up to the live feed by pressing FF.
I have confirmed that as Hookbill describes, the recording indicator remains lit and says it is recording, but the program (remaining) is not there. I can almost make this happen if I want it to with the above method if the STB has not been rebooted recently.
The problem has ONLY happend on local stations during primetime. In each case, my best educated guess has been a memory problem that disrupted the mpeg stream and failed to continue recording. Those with external drives are MORE likely to see the issue due to the increased memory issues with extended catalog files and header information being stored in ram with the external drive.

vegggas

This seems like the best answer I've seen to my issue. Unfortunately it does not resolve the problem. Yes, ONLY local stations during primetime. That sums it up for me. And ONLY recording HD. Not all my locals are HD and the ones that I watch either digital or analog have not had this problem.

Perhaps a daily reboot? Would that help the issue?

Hookbill, if I'm right, then it's possible that as you were watching the recording light stay lit (with your TV and everything off I'm assuming, right?), the box froze, then came back. You never knew it happened because you weren't watching TV to see it freeze, and the recording light stayed lit. The moment it froze is the moment you lose the remainder of the recording.
(

Here's how it works with me. I'm watching a recording when these things happen. I've gotten so aware of the issue I keep one eye on the "recording" light. I will usually pause the recording I'm watching at first commercial break and take a look at the recorded list. It's at that point I see the recording was only partial.

What your saying about the freeze makes the best sense to me. I guess I'll have to live with it, or perhaps try rebooting daily?

I don't believe it's corrupt IPG data as it only affects primetime local stations showing network programing in HD. All other recordings are fine.

you've been lucky, but for those who have had the problem, myself included, having the option to select the recording from the dvr list and selecting play from beginning seems to have solved the problem...

Almost missed this post. Actually for a short time I did have the 1.88.15.3 and I which had the play from beginning feature and the problem with partial recording still occurred. Apparently there were additional problems because my cable company switched back to 1.87.23.1 after just a few days trial.

Well, I'm giving up. My wife missed half of American Idol tonight due to a crash and that's just unacceptable :D . So, I'm throwing in the towel.

Do you think I should delete all the recordings that are on the ext. drive BEFORE I disconnect it, or after? Or does it not matter?

Good luck to everyone who's still having issues. I hope it works out.

Don't bother erasing them before. None of the files are split across both drives, so when you unplug the ext, its recorded shows will simply disappear from your recordings list. Presumably, you'll find a good home for that drive on a computer somewhere, and you can reformat it there.

Well, I'm giving up. My wife missed half of American Idol tonight due to a crash and that's just unacceptable :D . So, I'm throwing in the towel.

Do you think I should delete all the recordings that are on the ext. drive BEFORE I disconnect it, or after? Or does it not matter?

Good luck to everyone who's still having issues. I hope it works out.

FWIW someone without an external HD had an issue with a crash on AI too in my area.

Last night everything went well for me. I rebooted in the morning. I'm going to try a daily reboot.

Here's another idea. It comes from my wife. Keep the hard drive and record off of the digital channel. Yeah, I don't like that one either. ;)

Don't bother erasing them before. None of the files are split across both drives, so when you unplug the ext, its recorded shows will simply disappear from your recordings list. Presumably, you'll find a good home for that drive on a computer somewhere, and you can reformat it there.
This is not true. The index to all shows is on the internal drive. If you unplug the external, the recordings will still be on the list but they will not play.

This is not true. The index to all shows is on the internal drive. If you unplug the external, the recordings will still be on the list but they will not play.
A hard reboot (without the ext drive) doesn't rebuild the list?

A hard reboot (without the ext drive) doesn't rebuild the list?

I'm not sure about that but when I've disconnected the external hard drive in the past I formatted the hard disk. I figured clean up everything.

Of course you'll have to reprogram your future recordings if you do that.

Geek Pride be damned. I unplugged my brand new 500Gig Seagate last night. Stutter gone and shows actually record the whole show. I hate cable company controlled equipment. My MCE was sooooooo much smoother. Anyhow, I'm hoping that there is fixes in Sara 1.88.xx that will one day allow me to use this huge drive again. (Currently 1.87.xx is running)

I bet you it's something retarted like ncq that is giving Sara trouble. In any case, here's hoping to getting a fix for my ext!!!

K.

1.88.15.3 Cablevision

Samsung SP2504C 250GB SATA II 7200rpm 8MB Hard Drive
Vantec External SATA & USB2.0 Enclosure, NST-360SU-BK

This is not true. The index to all shows is on the internal drive. If you unplug the external, the recordings will still be on the list but they will not play.Whoops--my bad! Thanks for the correction.

It (partial recording) has happend on both my 8300 (with Ext HDD) and my 8000 (w/o Ext HDD). It is most llikely to happen if I am watching a delayed program and catch up to the live feed by pressing FF.
I have confirmed that as Hookbill describes, the recording indicator remains lit and says it is recording, but the program (remaining) is not there. I can almost make this happen if I want it to with the above method if the STB has not been rebooted recently.
The problem has ONLY happend on local stations during primetime. In each case, my best educated guess has been a memory problem that disrupted the mpeg stream and failed to continue recording. Those with external drives are MORE likely to see the issue due to the increased memory issues with extended catalog files and header information being stored in ram with the external drive.

vegggasFWIW, our local CBS has been messing around with setting up the capability to broadcast 1HD, 1HD+1SD, or 3SD during March Madness. The last 2 days they have caused all the symptoms beign discussed (freeze video, reboots, multiple recordings of a program, switching HD/SD, etc.) and wreaking havoc with our recordings. None of this appears to have messed up OTA at all, just cable. It has been verified it is not the 8300 that can't deal with it, it's something at the headend.

vegggas, if you want to take a look at what the HD engineer had to say, I can direct you to the thread in our local forum.

A hard reboot (without the ext drive) doesn't rebuild the list?The list may be rebuilt, but it still includes recordings saved to the external drive.

Here is an interesting twist. My 3 hour scheduled recording of Academy Awards on Sunday night was cut short. It was recorded yo my external drive and the time in the List screen showed 2 hrs and 34 minutes. I also had News on the same channel scheduled and it recorded fine. After shutting down, turning off the external drive, and restarting, the List screen shows the recording as 3 hours, but it is obviously not accessible. After reconnecting the external drive the List screen changed back to the shorter duration.

This implies that some additional and overriding information about the recording is saved on the external drive.

My scheduled recording of CSI: Miami on Monday night was also truncated to about 40 minutes. I don't recall having programs truncated before, but I only use the external infrequently when there is a lot of recording and minimum viewing time.

I am trying to drain it as there are frequent audio and visual drop outs.

I've actually deleted a partial recording, rebooted and saw the same recording I deleted at it's full time on the list. As you described nothing was actually there when I tried to play it. It just kept returning to the playback channel.

It's been 3-4 months since I posted last. Sorry for the delay.

We've finally released our 400GB eSATA kit for the Scientific Atlanta SA 8300HD (http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.12/it.A/id.383/.f) . It uses the latest generation video-rated 7.2K drive with 16MB cache. It can be found here. (http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.12/it.A/id.383/.f)

Once again we've seen such odd behaviours with different SARA versions, and different drives. We're beginning to think that sometimes, the brand of internal drive (in the SA8300) makes a difference too. V. odd!

The Netegriti drive kit is guaranteed to be fully compatible with your system (as long as you have SARA). It is also rated to suppor the SA multi-room functionality. Let me know if you have any questions. The 500GB is still undergoing testing.

Regards,

Jesse.

It's been 3-4 months since I posted last. Sorry for the delay.

Let me know if you have any questionsJust two:

1) Where the hell have you BEEN?!?!

2) Why, after all that time, the PREFUGLY external case?

-gil

just jumping in but I was going to hook up one of my externals to get more time out of my box
but the frigin box seems to cut shows short like others are having without any HD hooked up ?
basically like tonight I was going to watch one of my primetime HD shows and it only did 45 minutes worth ??
so sometimes it happens when I am not even watching the box other times its when I am watching another show and it cuts the other one ??
seems to be doing this more and more frequently over the last few weeks now its happening once a week ?? so going to swap out the box

still want to hook up a extra HD but now I am wondering if it will be worth it ??

just jumping in but I was going to hook up one of my externals to get more time out of my box
but the frigin box seems to cut shows short like others are having without any HD hooked up ?
basically like tonight I was going to watch one of my primetime HD shows and it only did 45 minutes worth ??
so sometimes it happens when I am not even watching the box other times its when I am watching another show and it cuts the other one ??
seems to be doing this more and more frequently over the last few weeks now its happening once a week ?? so going to swap out the box

still want to hook up a extra HD but now I am wondering if it will be worth it ??

1. Is it on CBS or other stations prime time? DoubleDaz says CBS is screwing around with their signals.
2. Have you tried rebooting? Vegggas has reported that this can occure without an external hard drive without rebooting.

This is being talked a great deal in my local thread. TW is going to eventually take over Adelphia in my area.

At first I was overjoyed as Adelphia, well, sucks. But now I'm hearing that TW in North East Ohio uses Passport software on the 8300. The thought seems to be they will convert everyone on to their system.

Passport=no SATA=bye bye External Hard Drive. :(

Just one more thing that's out of my control to worry about! :)

The Netegriti drive kit is guaranteed to be fully compatible with your system (as long as you have SARA).

What a guarantee, this coming Monday they will have the drive I returned to them for a MONTH (proof of delivery 2/13/06) and they have yet to give me a refund and I have emails saying that they will refund and even not charge me the restocking fee.

I am running SARA on Cablevision, they even sent me two drives (spent $45 in shipping them back and forth) and the recordings were unwatchable with over 10 seconds of it pausing repeatedly.

Just two:

1) Where the hell have you BEEN?!?!

2) Why, after all that time, the PREFUGLY external case?

-gil
Nice way to welcome him back.

What a guarantee, this coming Monday they will have the drive I returned to them for a MONTH (proof of delivery 2/13/06) and they have yet to give me a refund and I have emails saying that they will refund and even not charge me the restocking fee.

I am running SARA on Cablevision, they even sent me two drives (spent $45 in shipping them back and forth) and the recordings were unwatchable with over 10 seconds of it pausing repeatedly.
They? They? Who's "they?" DiscounTech?

Wow! What a response.

Perhaps I should clarify what our guarantee means. If our DVR drive kit does not work for an individual, it is fully returnable within 30 days. The point is that out of several hundred kits we have sold, about 3 have been returned due to peformance issues and a few for non-SARA users. There is little explanation as to why certain users, e.g. Brighton Line can seem to have the same setup as everyone else, yet two different kits caused issues. Brighton Line is the exception to the rule. (This is exactly why we've done so much testing before releasing new drives). Our guarantee means that the customer is assured that they won't end up owning a kit that doesn't work for them. It doesn't mean that we are super-human and can foresee or fix the <1% exceptional cases.

[QUOTE=Brighton Line]What a guarantee, this coming Monday they will have the drive I returned to them for a MONTH (proof of delivery 2/13/06) and they have yet to give me a refund and I have emails saying that they will refund and even not charge me the restocking fee.

I will check on your refund status. However, our accounting department can be a little slow sometimes. Apologies for the delay. However, this delay is just a delay, nothing more, nothing less. Frankly, as an organization we put more effort (and money) into ensuring on-time delivery and product testing, than into accounting functions. So accounting processes are sometimes queued. Not to mention the fact that credit card companies and banks are MUCH faster at taking money than returning it.

[QUOTE=GilWave]Just two:

1) Where the hell have you BEEN?!?!

Super, super busy! (and not wanting to post, without having more to share).

2) Why, after all that time, the PREFUGLY external case?

I presume the "PREFUGLY" means "very ugly". Honestly, I think the cases are pretty good looking. Of course, this is a totally subjective issue. Frankly, I think we have the best compromise of a case out there, but that said I wish it were better. Basically there are $100-300 cases, and then there are $20-60 cases. No-one will buy a kit where the case add $100-300 in cost. In the $20-60 range, they all have pros and cons. We've tested all of them (as far as I am aware). And felt that this is the best middle ground. That said, if you have a better suggestion, please send me a link. We always want to improve.

They? They? Who's "they?" DiscounTech?

Indeed Brighton Line (B.L.) is referring to us (DiscounTechnology). For no apparent reason, the kit we sent B.L. AND the replacement kit, both had compatibility issues for this customer. So we setup an RMA which is pending full refund, as part of our compatibility guarantee.

The strange thing is the fact that we have other customers on the same cable system, that are working fine. I don't have an explanation as to the issue.

Just the other day we had a customer working perfectly with our 250GB kit, he upgraded to the 400GB which caused the same issues B.L. had, but when he went back to 250GB it worked fine. However, B.L. had issues with the 250GB kit. All capacities of kits work pefectly for almost everyone, and then we come across a handful of people for whom one variant works and another doesn't. Explain that!!!! =)

This brings me full circle to the fact that we have seen different brands and models or drives being installed by Scientific Atlanta in various 8300HD boxes. We currently suspect that in some instances this has an impact. If anyone has an insight, or similar experiences, please let me know.

[QUOTE=Brighton Line]What a guarantee, this coming Monday they will have the drive I returned to them for a MONTH (proof of delivery 2/13/06) and they have yet to give me a refund and I have emails saying that they will refund and even not charge me the restocking fee.

Ironically enough the next refund in queue was B.L.'s. I asked accounting to issue the refund pronto as it is an issue for the customer. It has now been completed.

B.L. sorry it didn't work for you, and sorry for the delay.

Indeed Brighton Line (B.L.) is referring to us (DiscounTechnology). For no apparent reason, the kit we sent B.L. AND the replacement kit, both had compatibility issues for this customer. So we setup an RMA which is pending full refund, as part of our compatibility guarantee.

The strange thing is the fact that we have other customers on the same cable system, that are working fine. I don't have an explanation as to the issue.

Just the other day we had a customer working perfectly with our 250GB kit, he upgraded to the 400GB which caused the same issues B.L. had, but when he went back to 250GB it worked fine. However, B.L. had issues with the 250GB kit. All capacities of kits work pefectly for almost everyone, and then we come across a handful of people for whom one variant works and another doesn't. Explain that!!!! =)

This brings me full circle to the fact that we have seen different brands and models or drives being installed by Scientific Atlanta in various 8300HD boxes. We currently suspect that in some instances this has an impact. If anyone has an insight, or similar experiences, please let me know.
Well, I'll say one thing - you sure aren't afraid to answer posts, even the most hostile.

It is "rumored" that Pioneer/Aptiv is on the verge of releasing a Passport version that supports SATA. How much time will you need before you feel comfortable selling your kits for Passport. (Heh, you might as well expose yourself to abuse from the remaining 8300HD users.) :D

Thank you for the update, which was much better then "the boss was on vacation" previous emails..
I just related my experience with the unit, the extra shipping costs and overall frustration from JANUARY when I made the inital purchase until now with the refund.

I have an external 250gb working fine. there are 16 HD recordings totaling 26 hours. when I check useage it tells me 62% used. Is this normal ,I thought I saw less % used last time I looked.

I have an external 250gb working fine. there are 16 HD recordings totaling 26 hours. when I check useage it tells me 62% used. Is this normal ,I thought I saw less % used last time I looked.
If your 8300HD has a 160GB internal, then it accounts for ~20 hours of HD recording time. Your 250 gigger should hold ~32 hours. The total capacity should therefore be 52 hours. Twenty-six hours of HD content is only 50% of your total, but there is a fair (unfair?) amount of drive space taken by access tables, buffers and other "overhead." So 62% usage does not seem out of line. I can't address your "I saw less the last time" comment though. Someone else?

1. Is it on CBS or other stations prime time? DoubleDaz says CBS is screwing around with their signals.
2. Have you tried rebooting? Vegggas has reported that this can occure without an external hard drive without rebooting.
thanks for the response ;)

yup come to think of it ?? its CBS shows that are doing it ?? although had a wierd one cut off like last 8 minutes on another channel ??

also tried to reboot even did the complete erase and reformat thing

but that might explain why the CBS shows are cut off at exactly 15 minutes from the end

thanks again

CBS-5 here in Phoenix, not CBS the network, though there may be other places that are testing multicasting for March Madness besides Phoenix. Right now they appear to be done with testing and no more problems. I'll have to wait and see what happens when they flip the switch on the 16th to activate the 3 SD channels and take our HD away for the early rounds.

FWIW, w're on Cablevision Northern Westchers, NY running Sara version 1.88.15.3. We had glitches with a Seagate 400GB drive we bought and returned. I just tried a Discount Technologies Netegriti 400GB drive and had the same glitches PLUS 4 lockups of the box (requiring reboot) in the space of 1 hour of viewing (with NOTHING being recorded at the time).

I am exploring what to do next with Discount Technologies customer support. Not sure if it's their problem, or the box's problem. I'm posting the technical details here for the record so that people can see if there are any common details to when/where problems occur.

FWIW, w're on Cablevision Northern Westchers, NY running Sara version 1.88.15.3. We had glitches with a Seagate 400GB drive we bought and returned. I just tried a Discount Technologies Netegriti 400GB drive and had the same glitches PLUS 4 lockups of the box (requiring reboot) in the space of 1 hour of viewing (with NOTHING being recorded at the time).Well, also FWIW, you can't watch live TV without *something* being recorded--that's how the "rewind live TV" function works.

I think he means a "scheduled" recording. :)

I have Cablevision, the latest version of the firmware from what I've read here, and I am about to buy a Vantec NST 360SU enclosure (here):

http://www.vantecusa.com/p_nst360su.html

and pair it with a Maxtor DiamondMax 11 6H400F0 400GB hard drive. The enclosure is supposed to come with an eSATA to eSATA cable. Does anyone see any potential problems with this setup? Does that hard drive make sense, and does anyone have experience with either the hard drive or the enclosure?

I have Cablevision, the latest version of the firmware from what I've read here, and I am about to buy a Vantec NST 360SU enclosure (here):

http://www.vantecusa.com/p_nst360su.html

and pair it with a Maxtor DiamondMax 11 6H400F0 400GB hard drive. The enclosure is supposed to come with an eSATA to eSATA cable. Does anyone see any potential problems with this setup? Does that hard drive make sense, and does anyone have experience with either the hard drive or the enclosure?
I strongly suggest you read more of this thread - even if it's just the last few pages. In short, there is NO way for anyone to answer your question about potential problems because many, many posters have problems. And they've all got a wide array of gear. Setups that work for one don't work for the next. There is no logical pattern.

Is there ANYONE here successfully using an external eSATA drive with a Moto 8300HD on COX CABLED in Santa Barabara CA ?

Well, also FWIW, you can't watch live TV without *something* being recorded--that's how the "rewind live TV" function works.

I'm aware of that. We very rarely watch live tv. We almost always watch stuff recorded earlier, and that's what we're having problems with (only for stuff recorded to the external drive though).

We almost always watch stuff recorded earlier, and that's what we're having problems with (only for stuff recorded to the external drive though).What method do you use to determine which drive a given program was recorded on?

Is there ANYONE here successfully using an external eSATA drive with a Moto 8300HD on COX CABLED in Santa Barabara CA ?
FYI, the 8300HD is made by Scientific Atlanta, not Motorola.

I strongly suggest you read more of this thread - even if it's just the last few pages. In short, there is NO way for anyone to answer your question about potential problems because many, many posters have problems. And they've all got a wide array of gear. Setups that work for one don't work for the next. There is no logical pattern.


I see... Anyway, has anyone here used the VanTec NexStar 3 enclosure, and have there been any problems in terms or overheating, or during general use? Also, have people been successful using Maxtor DiamandMax 11 hard drives, especially the 400gb models? I noticed that particular model was used in the setup offered by DiscounTech, and they guarantee compatibility with SARA equipped units. Perhaps there will be a higher success rate with this drive due to its more recent implementation of native command queuing and the SATA standard and its purported inclusion of similar content streaming commands utilized by the QuickView 500 series of Maxtor drives. I saw one problem an individual was having with the DscounTech solution, has anyone else had either success or failure with this unit?

I see... Anyway, has anyone here used the VanTec NexStar 3 enclosure, and have there been any problems in terms or overheating, or during general use? Also, have people been successful using Maxtor DiamandMax 11 hard drives, especially the 400gb models? I noticed that particular model was used in the setup offered by DiscounTech, and they guarantee compatibility with SARA equipped units. Perhaps there will be a higher success rate with this drive due to its more recent implementation of native command queuing and the SATA standard and its purported inclusion of similar content streaming commands utilized by the QuickView 500 series of Maxtor drives. I saw one problem an individual was having with the DscounTech solution, has anyone else had either success or failure with this unit?
FWIW, the 8300HD does not support any of the SATA II streaming commands or NCQ, which is more of a multi-tasking/server feature anyway.

What method do you use to determine which drive a given program was recorded on?

Program recording date. All programs recorded while the external drive is attached get recorded on the external drive since it has more free space than the internal drive.

BTW, EVERY show recorded to the external drive suffered numerous glitches. This now includes 6 episodes of American Idol over the space of 2 weeks.

We have not seen a single glitch on shows recorded to the internal drive.

I have to agree that I have observed more glitches, i.e. sound drop offs since returning to the Maxtor Quickview.

It may be too early to proclaim a solution to my problem of partial recordings, but in the last 8 days I have rebooted every day (both drives) and I have not had a partial recording of any HD or SD shows during prime time (or anytime for that matter). Prior to trying this I was getting 2 or 3 partial recordings on HD shows during prime time per week.

I wouldn't tell anyone else a this point that this is a solution, nor would I recommend anyone who has a problem with dropped shows to try this. I'm merely sharing my experience as I go along here.

I have to agree that I have observed more glitches, i.e. sound drop offs since returning to the Maxtor Quickview.

It may be too early to proclaim a solution to my problem of partial recordings, but in the last 8 days I have rebooted every day (both drives) and I have not had a partial recording of any HD or SD shows during prime time (or anytime for that matter). Prior to trying this I was getting 2 or 3 partial recordings on HD shows during prime time per week.

I wouldn't tell anyone else a this point that this is a solution, nor would I recommend anyone who has a problem with dropped shows to try this. I'm merely sharing my experience as I go along here.
I would be directing queries to Maxtor as the Quickview Extender is specifically designed for and approved by SA for this purpose. With SA the status is technically "approved, but not supported." So, Maxtor needs to be brought into this.

Just my $.02.

I would be directing queries to Maxtor as the Quickview Extender is specifically designed for and approved by SA for this purpose. With SA the status is technically "approved, but not supported." So, Maxtor needs to be brought into this.

Just my $.02.

And your entitled! :)


I already have. I RMA my other unit, I have returned my SA 8300 for another. What else can they do?

I think the problem is that I'm the only one who is experiencing this issue with this external hard drive.

Anyway it is working OK now, glitches aside. I'll just continue my daily reboot.

And your entitled! :)


I already have. I RMA my other unit, I have returned my SA 8300 for another. What else can they do?

I think the problem is that I'm the only one who is experiencing this issue with this external hard drive.

Anyway it is working OK now, glitches aside. I'll just continue my daily reboot.
I don't think you are the only one. I haven't been keeping score, but I seem to remember others with Quickview drives that have stuttering, freezing and listed, but un-accessible recordings. If so, and neither SA nor local cableco has an answer, it should fall to Maxtor.

We're still trying to determine what percentage of users this "glitching problem" affects. It doesn't appear to be unique to Maxtor. We've seen many models of drives cause these issues (hence we don't use them). However, even our "approved" models cause issues with a small percentage of users. It is definitely under 4% on our 160GB/250GB kits. We don't have a large enough sample of 400GB users to measure.

Can the people experiencing the glitches report the brand/model of INTERNAL drive they have in their 8300HD in addition to the SARA version, and cable system?

Thanks!

Jesse.

My SA 8300 has internally a Maxtor 461R0L0 hard drive, and the external Maxtor Quickview Extendor running SARA v 1.87.23.1.

FWIW, I called Maxtor tech support and told them that I've had 1 partial recording and the sound gliches. Here's how it went:

Me: I'm calling about my rma xxxxxxxx. I got the replacement and I'm still having some problems. (Gave description of gliches and such).

Tech: Do you have this hooked up to your motherboard?

Me: This is a Maxtor Quickview. It's made specifically for the SA 8300.

Tech: Is that a tower?

Me: No it's a DVR. You do know what a DVR is don't you?

Tech: Sure, um...what's it doing again....

I had other things to do and this guy was clueless.

I gave it a try anyway. :)

My SA 8300 has internally a Maxtor 461R0L0 hard drive, and the external Maxtor Quickview Extendor running SARA v 1.87.23.1.

FWIW, I called Maxtor tech support and told them that I've had 1 partial recording and the sound gliches. Here's how it went:

Me: I'm calling about my rma xxxxxxxx. I got the replacement and I'm still having some problems. (Gave description of gliches and such).

Tech: Do you have this hooked up to your motherboard?

Me: This is a Maxtor Quickview. It's made specifically for the SA 8300.

Tech: Is that a tower?

Me: No it's a DVR. You do know what a DVR is don't you?

Tech: Sure, um...what's it doing again....

I had other things to do and this guy was clueless.

I gave it a try anyway. :)
E-S-C-A-L-A-T-E-!

This is being talked a great deal in my local thread. TW is going to eventually take over Adelphia in my area.

At first I was overjoyed as Adelphia, well, sucks. But now I'm hearing that TW in North East Ohio uses Passport software on the 8300. The thought seems to be they will convert everyone on to their system.

Passport=no SATA=bye bye External Hard Drive. :(

Just one more thing that's out of my control to worry about! :)

Sorry not to respond to this earlier - I've been out of town a bit.

I don't think that you will see any sort of SARA to Passport change. Both are used on various TW systems, and that happens because a system is built around one system or the other. It is virtually impossible to change a system.

So rest assured, your external drive is safe in Ohio.

BTW: I'm on TW Rochester - it's SARA. ;)

Sorry not to respond to this earlier - I've been out of town a bit.

I don't think that you will see any sort of SARA to Passport change. Both are used on various TW systems, and that happens because a system is built around one system or the other. It is virtually impossible to change a system.

So rest assured, your external drive is safe in Ohio.

BTW: I'm on TW Rochester - it's SARA. ;)

I know not all of TW is Passport. I sure hope your right on this one. Everybody in my local thread seems to think they will change the entire system to the current TW that is in my area.

To me that didn't make sense, it's got to be expensive - but stranger things have happened. Anyway time will tell.

Well,

I CHALLENGE anyone to report* where a major system has converted from SARA to Passport, or visa versa. I just don't believe that has ever happened. (But I am open).

*Report means: Person identifying this is identified (in a manner he/she can be contacted directly, not just some internet moniker), naming the system (TW Columbus, OH), the approximate date the change took place, the change (SARA to Passport) and how this person came to know the change took place.

Can the people experiencing the glitches report the brand/model of INTERNAL drive they have in their 8300HD in addition to the SARA version, and cable system?
Jesse.

Model: WDC WD 1600BB-56GUC0
Firmware Version: 20.02H20
Size 312450730

Sara version 1.88.15.3.

I see... Anyway, has anyone here used the VanTec NexStar 3 enclosure, and have there been any problems in terms or overheating, or during general use? Also, have people been successful using Maxtor DiamandMax 11 hard drives, especially the 400gb models? I noticed that particular model was used in the setup offered by DiscounTech, and they guarantee compatibility with SARA equipped units. Perhaps there will be a higher success rate with this drive due to its more recent implementation of native command queuing and the SATA standard and its purported inclusion of similar content streaming commands utilized by the QuickView 500 series of Maxtor drives. I saw one problem an individual was having with the DscounTech solution, has anyone else had either success or failure with this unit?


I bought a Seagate 300Meg SATA and the vantec NexStar case. There was no problem putting the drive in the case. I formated it by connecting it to my PC with the USB cable just so I could get it running. I let it run all day and periodically measured the VanTec case temp with a non-contact IR temperature "gun". It never got over 90 degrees F. Cooler then one of my PC internal drives. I don't think it will have an overheating problem and the Seagate has a 5 year warranty. I haven't hooked it up yet because I'm waiting for my new tv to arrive from the "C" online store. Once the TV is hear all my "stuff" will need to be moved around and I'm not going to connect the drive till everything else is hooked up and working correctly.

Model: WDC WD 1600BB-56GUC0
Firmware Version: 20.02H20
Size 312450730

Sara version 1.88.15.3.


How did you determine what the internal drive was?

How did you determine what the internal drive was?

Info comes right off of one of the diagnostic pages. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859 for instructions on accessing the diagnostic pages.

Well,

I CHALLENGE anyone to report* where a major system has converted from SARA to Passport, or visa versa. I just don't believe that has ever happened. (But I am open).

*Report means: Person identifying this is identified (in a manner he/she can be contacted directly, not just some internet moniker), naming the system (TW Columbus, OH), the approximate date the change took place, the change (SARA to Passport) and how this person came to know the change took place.

I think your right. I like your confidence. I'll post your challenge on my local thread.

Bet you won't get any takers. :)

I think your right. I like your confidence. I'll post your challenge on my local thread.

Bet you won't get any takers. :)
I know it's to filter our the BS, but the check list seems more like interrogation. :)

OK, I knew it probably wouldn't hold up. My "daily reboots" failed today to keep a show from only being partialy recorded. NCIS got a full 6 minutes - that's it. Of course the record light was on for the entire hour. :(

FWIW, the 8300HD does not support any of the SATA II streaming commands or NCQ...

Can you prove that? How has it been determined that this box for sure does NOT support any of these features?

...which is more of a multi-tasking/server feature anyway.

You mean like the simultaneous recording and playback of high def video? :rolleyes:

Drivie

Can you prove that? How has it been determined that this box for sure does NOT support any of these features?
If you mean can I point you to something in writing that says "The 8300HD does not support SATA II streaming commands" - no, of course not. But the 8300's design predates the SATA II standard - by a year or two, and PC host controllers are only just now beginning to support SATA II. Draw your own conclusions.

You mean like the simultaneous recording and playback of high def video? :rolleyes:
No, Drivie. I mean multiple users running multiple applications that access multiple files. Not one or two streams read or wrote to more or less contiguous files.

Well,

I CHALLENGE anyone to report* where a major system has converted from SARA to Passport, or visa versa. I just don't believe that has ever happened. (But I am open).

*Report means: Person identifying this is identified (in a manner he/she can be contacted directly, not just some internet moniker), naming the system (TW Columbus, OH), the approximate date the change took place, the change (SARA to Passport) and how this person came to know the change took place.

This doesn't meet your CHALLENGE, but it may be of interest to some people.

"Time Warner launches S-A DVR on Motorola system"
9/2/2004

http://www.cedmagazine.com/toc-bbdirect/2004/20040902.html

Houston Time Warner Cable did internal testing of the Motorola DVR but never released it. Instead it released the S-A DVR. I think the testing was done in the summer of 2003, but I can't find any references to it anymore. I have read reports that there was a problem with the second tuner at the time of the testing.

Another thing that is going to happen when the TW/Comcast/Adelphia buy out is completed in my area is that the people who have Comcast will becomed TW customers. This is all part of the agreement. Which brings up that Motorola box.

My feeling is something will have to change because of that. Or maybe TW will continue to use the Motorola box?

I know I'm getting off topic a bit, I apologize. It is indirectly linked to whether or not my Maxtor External Hard Drive will still be used after this merge. :)

Another thing that is going to happen when the TW/Comcast/Adelphia buy out is completed in my area is that the people who have Comcast will becomed TW customers. This is all part of the agreement. Which brings up that Motorola box.

My feeling is something will have to change because of that. Or maybe TW will continue to use the Motorola box?

I know I'm getting off topic a bit, I apologize. It is indirectly linked to whether or not my Maxtor External Hard Drive will still be used after this merge. :)
I just can't see a new owner trashing an existing system to use another one. Part of the assets they paid for is all the existing gear, including the headend. It doesn't make sense financially.

Ultimately OCAP will replace it all and negate the need to reply on single vendors for equipment and software, no?

I am exploring what to do next with Discount Technologies customer support. Not sure if it's their problem, or the box's problem.
If I was a gambler I'd bet a lot of money that you would have problems no matter what drive/enclosure you use.

Based on my own experience, and those on this thread, the problem lies in the SA8300HD itself. Why some exhibit problems and others don't is anybody's guess.

There has been no identifiable pattern of failure based on drive manufacturer, drive size, or enclosure type. There has been an identifiable pattern that when a user experiences a problem, the problem is not solved by changing the external drive. There has been at least one user who had zero problems with an external drive on one SA8300HD, but glitches using the exact same external drive/enclosure on a different SA8300HD.

There's no proof, but in my mind there is enough emperical evidence to support the theory that something in the SA8300HD itself is the source of the glitches. The question is, what makes one SA8300HD different from another, even when both are running the same version of SARA? Is it firmware? Is it that newer 8300's have upgraded chipsets? Is it something to do with the internal drive?

Unfortunately speculation is all we have, as frustrating as it is.

FWIW, we had glitches and 2 lockups (requiring reboot) today watching a 2-hour standard-def show (recorded from the Disney channel). So it would seem to not be data-rate related.

If I was a gambler I'd bet a lot of money that you would have problems no matter what drive/enclosure you use.

Based on my own experience, and those on this thread, the problem lies in the SA8300HD itself. Why some exhibit problems and others don't is anybody's guess.

There has been no identifiable pattern of failure based on drive manufacturer, drive size, or enclosure type. There has been an identifiable pattern that when a user experiences a problem, the problem is not solved by changing the external drive. There has been at least one user who had zero problems with an external drive on one SA8300HD, but glitches using the exact same external drive/enclosure on a different SA8300HD.

There's no proof, but in my mind there is enough emperical evidence to support the theory that something in the SA8300HD itself is the source of the glitches. The question is, what makes one SA8300HD different from another, even when both are running the same version of SARA? Is it firmware? Is it that newer 8300's have upgraded chipsets? Is it something to do with the internal drive?

Unfortunately speculation is all we have, as frustrating as it is.

I pretty much agree with this statement. After trying to analyize, test, reboot, formatting and everything else it boils down to the 8300.

I know some people don't enjoy seeing negative comments on the 8300 but it really is not a great machine.

I'm looking forward to the new TiVo series 3 coming out soon. The only thing that may hold me back is the price. If it's under 500.00 I'll buy it. It will have a larger HD then the 8300 anyway so I may not even need an external hd. Plus I've heard possiblities that it will work with other external hard drives, though a certain amount of hacking may be necessary.

I am considering getting a 250gb external drive from Discount Technologies. When you have an external drive attached to an 8300HD, is the external drive logically the same drive as the internal drive? In other words, is it transparent, from the guide interface, which drive the shows are recorded on? Thanks, Joe

Totally transparent. It acts just like any other 8300; record your shows, pick them from the list and enjoy.

Has anyone tried to see if you disconnect the internal drive, an external-only setup works?

Obviously if that worked, you could swap drives easily for unlimitted expansion.

Gary

I bought a Seagate 300Meg SATA and the vantec NexStar case. There was no problem putting the drive in the case. I formated it by connecting it to my PC with the USB cable just so I could get it running. I let it run all day and periodically measured the VanTec case temp with a non-contact IR temperature "gun". It never got over 90 degrees F. Cooler then one of my PC internal drives. I don't think it will have an overheating problem and the Seagate has a 5 year warranty. I haven't hooked it up yet because I'm waiting for my new tv to arrive from the "C" online store. Once the TV is hear all my "stuff" will need to be moved around and I'm not going to connect the drive till everything else is hooked up and working correctly.
I got the NexStar case and a Maxtor 300GB HDD, and my 8300HD barfed on it. Now comes the joy of figuring out which piece isn't working. (The drive works fine in the case over USB...)

Has anyone tried to see if you disconnect the internal drive, an external-only setup works?Well, there's that pesky matter about how the 8300 doesn't actually belong to you, but rather to the cable company, and they generally frown on people taking apart their boxes and mucking around with the innards. There are probably tamper-resistant stickers and such on your box so the cableco'd have a good idea whether you took it apart (at least, there are on mine).

I'd sure hate to get a bill from my cableco for what they think the 8300HD is worth if it conked out after I had broken the tamper-resistant seals...

Well, there's that pesky matter about how the 8300 doesn't actually belong to you.

Can't you purchase an 8300HD?

I can get one at several retailers in Toronto. I've CHOSEN to rent one, but could buy one tomorrow.

HDTV PVR EXPLORER 8300HD DIGITAL TERMINAL (http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=DigitalCable&product=1538016)

CAD$599

It's fairly common across cablecos here.

Digital cable products (http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Category.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=DigitalCable&pagenum=1&sort=1)


Gary

As far as I know, in the US there is no option to purchase an 8300HD and have it (legally) activated for use with a cable system. Certainly, I've never heard of anyone doing such a thing, nor have I ever seen one for sale. I am surprised to hear it's an option in Canada--thanks for the info.

Not an option in the US. Cox did sell the 3100 and 3250 at one time, but stopped and never did sell the 8300. The Tivo S3 might change all of that, but I'm not sure too many folks would opt to buy the 8300 even if they could, including me even though mine has worked fine. I believe most, if not all, 8300 problems are software related, but why buy something with lousy software that will probably be replaced within a year or 2?

I'm amazed.

No wonder the issues are so old and festering. You can bet they wouldn't survive long if people had purchased their units.

I agree about not purchasing, which is why I rent. But, I had thought the PVR were purchase only in some parts (I think they are for some cablecos here).

There seems to be little on the horizon from SciAtl other than the MR version. Hopefully OCAP will expand the possibilities and end the duopoly, which is far more entrenched than I had thought.

What about things like the Sony PVRs with CableCARD. How easy is it to use one of those?

Gary

Don't sell SA, Moto, etc., short. They provide either what they think cableco's will be willing to pay for or what cableco's ask for. Once cable is no longer limited to single vendors, SA, et al, will have to adapt in order to survive. The major problem is the cableco mentality. The Tivo S3 is a step in the right direction with OCAP soon to follow, but that assumes one is relatively content with cableco's as we know them today. Let's face it, even if the quality and usefulness of DVRs, Sony PVRs with CableCard, etc., changes drastically for the better, cable and sat are fast becoming antiquated delivery sysems subject to a lot of limitations.

I believe the internet will totally change the way we receive our entertainment content. There are already systems in play to replace DVD rentals whereby you select content and it is pushed to your recorder for viewing at your leisure much like Netflix DVDs only without the DVD. There is really no reason that smilar concepts couldn't be applied at the program level. If you want to subscribe to Lost, for example, it could be automatically "emailed" to your recorder much like newsletters are. Cable already provides 10 Mb or faster service and rumors are that this will increase significantly very quickly. Once video files become just another file traveling through the internet, there is nothing to stop content subscriptions from becoming the norm and even negating the need for local stations in their current configurations. I think the future is coming sooner that we thought possible just a few short years ago. Video Ipods today, direct HDTV/DVR downloads tomorrow. :)

I believe most, if not all, 8300 problems are software related, but why buy something with lousy software that will probably be replaced within a year or 2?I disagree. First I think most of the 8300 problems are firmware (software that is hard coded) or chipset related. This would more logically explain the varied results between users, and even different hard drive performing differently on the same box.

I purchased an 8300HD fifteen months ago, and based on the deal I got, break even point for rent vs buy is 9 months away (assuming that it does not fail during that time). If a replacement comes out in 2 years my savings will have paid for one of my two the external HDD's.

Can't you purchase an 8300HD?

I can get one at several retailers in Toronto. I've CHOSEN to rent one, but could buy one tomorrow.

HDTV PVR EXPLORER 8300HD DIGITAL TERMINAL (http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=DigitalCable&product=1538016)

CAD$599

It's fairly common across cablecos here.

Digital cable products (http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Category.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=DigitalCable&pagenum=1&sort=1)

Gary
I bought my first SA digital box about 6 years ago and all boxes have been available for purchase since then.

I bought my 8300HD about 20 months ago.

Cable already provides 10 Mb or faster service and rumors are that this will increase significantly very quickly. Once video files become just another file traveling through the internet, there is nothing to stop content subscriptions from becoming the norm and even negating the need for local stations in their current configurations. I think the future is coming sooner that we thought possible just a few short years ago. Video Ipods today, direct HDTV/DVR downloads tomorrow. :)

I definitely agree with this.

Here in Toronto, Rogers cable has what they call High Speed Extreme service, which requires the purchase of a special Motorola modem.

I test it once in a while on TOAST.NET which regularly shows speeds of roughly 4,580KB when downloading a 1.4MB graphic of F-16 jets. The download time is roughly 2.5 seconds.

They also compare the results against most of the other cable companies, and Rogers is always about 50% faster for this particular test. Of course, I don't know where they get their statistics from, so YMMV. :D

(software that is hard coded)Software is software, hardcoded or not. Newer chipsets require updated software and I think that's why you see the differences. That doesn't make the chipsets or hardware bad, it just makes the software outdated. Cableco's don't really know or care what chipset revision they get in the boxes they receive, but in this world of muli-version software/firmware floating around, they should.

I believe that also explains why one user gets different results using 2 different units with his SATA drive. My guess is that some of this stuff may be dealing directly with the hardware, much like PC programs used to do, and that ALWAYS gets you into these kinds of troubles. Software/hardware is pretty dumb and if all things were as equal as they appeared to be in that case, the results would be the same and they are not. Therefore, all things are not equal.

Of course, all this is purely my opinon. :)

I test it once in a while on TOAST.NET which regularly shows speeds of roughly 4,580KB when downloading a 1.4MB graphic of F-16 jets. The download time is roughly 2.5 seconds.FWIW, I think you mean 4580Kb/s, or ~460KB/s. That is comparable to the performance of Time-Warner's RoadRunner service in the US.

4580KB/s would be quite an improvement. That 1.4MB graphic would load in about 0.3 seconds!

FWIW, I think you mean 4580Kb/s, or ~460KB/s. That is comparable to the performance of Time-Warner's RoadRunner service in the US.

4580KB/s would be quite an improvement. That 1.4MB graphic would load in about 0.3 seconds!

Yes, it's KB/S. Thanks for pointing that out.

I often get around 600KB/S on downloads. Of course, that has a lot to do with the performance of the web site server.

Hello,

Just to report my success with an external enclosure.

I used a penguin gear 380 case and a Seagate 7200.8 250GB drive. The case came with a cable that worked with the 8300. Been a couple of months and no issues with drops or half recorded shows.

BTW I took a look inside the 8300HD this weekend and the eSATA port is driven by a Marvell 88SA8040 Bridge chip that creates a SATA connection from the secondary PATA connection (the primary PATA is for the internal drive which, BTW, is mounted upside down!). This chip supports 48-bit LBA addressing.

dialog_gvf has found a place (digital computing divide) that sells the Seagate DB35 PATA drive which is their version of the Maxtor Quickview (i.e. the error detection & correction are disabled).

Sorry about the lack of URLs but as I haven't yet posted 5 times the restrictions prevent me from making this easy

Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been out of town for awhile.

This doesn't meet your CHALLENGE, but it may be of interest to some people.

"Time Warner launches S-A DVR on Motorola system"
9/2/2004

http://www.cedmagazine.com/toc-bbdirect/2004/20040902.html

Houston Time Warner Cable did internal testing of the Motorola DVR but never released it. Instead it released the S-A DVR. I think the testing was done in the summer of 2003, but I can't find any references to it anymore. I have read reports that there was a problem with the second tuner at the time of the testing.

As I understand it, this is an example of cable systems not being able to change their system software. Here we are talking about adapting a specific piece of hardware (probably the SA8000, given the date of the report) to the system OS. That is exactly what the Passport software on the 8300 is. Perhaps, veggas or doubleDAZ can provide some additional info relating to the names of various OS.

Sorry about the lack of URLs but as I haven't yet posted 5 times the restrictions prevent me from making this easy


Seagate 400GB DB35 (https://usm.channelonline.com/ddcstore/storesite/Products/Overview/?id=M002813398)
Seagate 250GB DB35 (https://usm.channelonline.com/ddcstore/storesite/Products/Overview/?id=M002580388)
IDE-SATA Bridge Card (http://www.addonics.com/products/io/adsaide.asp)
Saturn ExDrive (SED) (http://www.addonics.com/products/Saturn/aesed.asp)

Any others?

Gary

Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been out of town for awhile.



As I understand it, this is an example of cable systems not being able to change their system software. Here we are talking about adapting a specific piece of hardware (probably the SA8000, given the date of the report) to the system OS. That is exactly what the Passport software on the 8300 is. Perhaps, veggas or doubleDAZ can provide some additional info relating to the names of various OS.

Houston Time Warner Cable started with the SA8000 DVR (both SD and HD models) and after several months released the SA8300 DVR. It uses SARA 1.87.16.a104 (dated July 11, 2005) on the SA8300HD DVR. I don't know if there is any specific software for Houston, but it has the same bugs documented by other people who use this version of SARA, for example the "Copy to VCR" function does not work correctly. Houston TWC is in the process of beta testing 1.88.x.x.

Russ,

I was referring to changing system software from one basic type (SARA) to another (Passport)- not versions of the software. It is really analogous to a Windows computer and a Macintosh computer. In some cases there have been emulators that allow Windows to run on a Mac - but the Windows still is on top of the Mac OS.

Russ,

I was referring to changing system software from one basic type (SARA) to another (Passport)- not versions of the software. It is really analogous to a Windows computer and a Macintosh computer. In some cases there have been emulators that allow Windows to run on a Mac - but the Windows still is on top of the Mac OS.


Actually, a Windows OS and a Macintosh OS run on different hardware (ignoring the Apple change a couple months ago from PowerPC chips to Intel chips). A more accurate comparison would be a brand new PC... you could either configure it to run Windows 2000/XP or to run some version of Linux. In both cases, you have the exact same hardware but running different software on top of the hardware.

The real issue would probably be a timing issue. My assumption is that a cable company that uses SARA software on their SA8300HDs probably use software on their servers that know how to specifically talk to SARA boxes. The same is true for Passport boxes... they require server software that knows how to handle Passport boxes. If a company wanted to convert from SARA to Passport (or vice-versa) they would either have to run dual servers on their cable network or would need to inflict some outage on customers while the new software type is downloaded to each of the cable boxes in the network. Once the boxes were all updated, they server would then be cut over.

You folks all know, don't you, that this "switching software" talk only serves to run up our post count with absolutely no relevance to the real world? :)

You folks all know, don't you, that this "switching software" talk only serves to run up our post count with absolutely no relevance to the real world? :)

Huh? Only if your not reading the thread. It does have revelance to what will be happening in my area soon.

That is, if I'm still living in the real world. After all I do live in Ohio. :)

Well just look at his (pepar's) post count :rolleyes:

Huh? Only if your not reading the thread. It does have revelance to what will be happening in my area soon.

That is, if I'm still living in the real world. After all I do live in Ohio. :)
Relevance only in your dreams. :)

I am readin' the thread and I see a boatload of speculation and rumormongering. No large cableco will ever junk a working system because of a new owner, or any other reason for that matter. Regardless of a perceived corporate preference, they will quickly be agnostic when they buy a working system of a different flavor.

:)

Well just look at his (pepar's) post count :rolleyes:
Workin' it! :)

Last night I got 2 minutes of Criminal Minds and no recordings of Law & Order, Heist, and CSI:NY. Tuesday I got all of 7 minutes of The Unit.

That's it. I'm disconnecting the Maxtor Quickview. I'm moving everything off the hard drive to DVD as I write.

I anxiously await TiVo Series 3. It's number 1 on my next list. Specially since Adelphia tells me that they now want to charge me for "rental" of the box $4.95. That gets added on to the 7.00 charge for DVR service, or digital.

They jam you up so many ways it's hard to keep track of.

My first 250 gig drive I received from you for my 8300 HD did not function properly. We returned it to you and within a few days I received another drive that does work just fine. In my case I guess the first drive was bad. No more skips, no more images breaking up! I must add that the people at Discount Technology could not have been more professional and I DO recomend them to everyone.

I think we were discussing the merits/downfalls of this approach (http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/27/cablevision-to-rollout-remote-storage-dvr-service/) a shot time ago...

Would this hard drive work fine with External SATA?
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10389075&loc=101&sp=1

Thanks!

Would this hard drive work fine with External SATA?
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10389075&loc=101&sp=1There is no way to definitively answer your question. I don't think anyone here would claim that any particular combination of drive/enclosure will work 100% of the time with the 8300HD, nor do I think anyone has identified a combination of drive/enclosure that will fail 100% of the time. (Note that DiscountTech has a "guarantee" that their product will work, but that simply means that if it doesn't, they'll replace your equipment until it works or offer you a refund if they can't. If you read back through this thread, they admit that a small number of customers have had persistent problems that DT could neither overcome nor explain.)

You pays your nickel and you takes your chance...

There is no way to definitively answer your question. I don't think anyone here would claim that any particular combination of drive/enclosure will work 100% of the time with the 8300HD, nor do I think anyone has identified a combination of drive/enclosure that will fail 100% of the time. (Note that DiscountTech has a "guarantee" that their product will work, but that simply means that if it doesn't, they'll replace your equipment until it works or offer you a refund if they can't. If you read back through this thread, they admit that a small number of customers have had persistent problems that DT could neither overcome nor explain.)

You pays your nickel and you takes your chance...
Perfect answer! While I'm a dyed-in-the-wool DIY'er, the DiscounTech offer is very attractive in this situation with the wackiness of mating an external drive to the 8300HD.

There is no way to definitively answer your question. I don't think anyone here would claim that any particular combination of drive/enclosure will work 100% of the time with the 8300HD, nor do I think anyone has identified a combination of drive/enclosure that will fail 100% of the time. (Note that DiscountTech has a "guarantee" that their product will work, but that simply means that if it doesn't, they'll replace your equipment until it works or offer you a refund if they can't. If you read back through this thread, they admit that a small number of customers have had persistent problems that DT could neither overcome nor explain.)

You pays your nickel and you takes your chance...

Yes, I agree as well. The Maxtor Quickview is suppose to aboslutely positively work for the 8300. And while it's worked well for the majority of people it didn't work for me.

FWIW since I disconnected the ext hd last week I've had no glitches, no sound problems, and most importantly, no missed recordings.

However I am already running out of disk space. :)

Okay thanks for the info. I guess I will wait it out some, since I am using Passport and they just recently activated the external SATA port.

Here is my SA8300HD external sata drive experience:

In February, I purchased a Vantec NexStar 3 3.5" SATA to eSATA / USB 2.0 External hard Drive Enclosure and a Maxtor MaXLine III 300GB Native SATA Hard Drive. I was easily able to install the hard drive in the enclosure and the enclosure itself had everything needed to hook it up the the SA8300HD. After plugging the enclosure into the dvr and a couple reboots, everything seemed to work fine. I was able to watch live TV and record shows without problems. After a few days, the problem started. The dvr would freeze while watching a previously recorded show. After it froze, I would have to reboot the box, or wait for itself to reboot itself. Once or twice, I was able to avoid a reboot by switching to a different recorded program, but 99% of the time it would require a reboot. It was like the hard drive was performing some error handling which was locking up the box. There was really no pattern to the freezing. It would freeze during HD or SD shows, some shows it would do it multiple times while others it didn't do it at all. The box would never freeze while watching live TV or while recording shows. I also never saw it freeze while watching a live show on a delay. It would only happen when watching a previously recorded show. Also, while watching the same show again after a freeze, it wouldn't freeze in the same spot. Very weird.

After doing a lot of research on the internet, I came to the conclusion that is was the hard drive error correction that was causing the problem. So I started looking for a hard drive that had its error correction optimized for the dvr and I came across the Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L300S0 300GB Serial ATA (1.5Gb/s) 7200RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer which was supposely the one used in Maxtor's Quickdrives. Before I purchased the new hard drive, I called Maxtor to verify that this drive would work with the SA8300 and they said it would. I also refused to buy the Maxtor 300GB Quickview Expander because they were obviously inflating the price, which was $289 on weaknees. I was able to purchase the same drive in that unit for $120 and I doubt the external closure is worth the extra $170. I was able to build my external drive for 1/2 of what one of those cost. Anyway, I have been running the new drive in the same enclosure I purchased in February for over a week now and everything has been running good so far. I haven't seen any freezing yet. If I do see freezing in the upcoming weeks, I will be sure to post another message.

A couple notes about the Vantec NexStar enclosure:
1. The light is very bright so I disconnected it.
2. The hard drive is not very secure in the enclosure. I had to place a piece of rubber next to the hard drive to keep it from banging when I moved the enclosure around. With the piece of rubber, it is nice and secure.

The moral of this story: Make sure to buy a sata hard drive that handles error correction in a dvr way and and not PC way. The dvr way should pretty much ignore the error and move on. The PC way is to try to fix the error which could take some time and cause the dvr to freeze.

I hope my story helps other people trying trying to do the same thing I did.

Scott

I hope my story helps other people trying trying to do the same thing I did.
Thank you, Scott.

Scott,

Thank you for the updated info. How did you go about researching to find out that the 6L300S0 drive was optimized for DVR usage aside from contacting Maxtor directly? Did you come up with any other drives that are also optimized for DVR? Preferably larger ones?

Thanks,

Drivie

Here is my SA8300HD external sata drive experience:


A couple notes about the Vantec NexStar enclosure:
1. The light is very bright so I disconnected it.
2. The hard drive is not very secure in the enclosure. I had to place a piece of rubber next to the hard drive to keep it from banging when I moved the enclosure around. With the piece of rubber, it is nice and secure.

Scott


THanks for the info on the right drive. I already have a Seagate that I'm going to try in a few days. It's in the same vantec nextstar enclosure. But mine has no loosness or banging around of the HD. You did use the four drive mounting screws to attached the drive to the inside carrier did you not????

I'll reply to say that I believe I found the answer to my own questions on the Maxtor site. After looking through the data sheets for the Maxtor Quickview drives, I have located the following model numbers for the SATA drives.

100GB - 6L100M0
120GB - 6L120P0
160GB - 6L160M0
200GB - 6L200M0
250GB - 60250S0
300GB - 6L300S0 (thanks to tiny1055)
400GB - 3H400F0
500GB - 3H500F0

I left out the model numbers for th 40GB and 80GB drives. Hopefully that will help future DIY'ers. I think I may go for the 300GB because I couldn't find a good/reputable source for the 400GB or 500GB but Newegg sells the 300GB.

Drivie

Scott,

Thank you for the updated info. How did you go about researching to find out that the 6L300S0 drive was optimized for DVR usage aside from contacting Maxtor directly? Did you come up with any other drives that are also optimized for DVR? Preferably larger ones?

Thanks,

Drivie

I was really just looking for the same drive that was in the Maxtor Quickview Expander because I knew that was made to work with the SA8300. So I went to the Maxtor website and clicked on Consumer Electronics and found the drives there.

THanks for the info on the right drive. I already have a Seagate that I'm going to try in a few days. It's in the same vantec nextstar enclosure. But mine has no loosness or banging around of the HD. You did use the four drive mounting screws to attached the drive to the inside carrier did you not????

Yes, I attached the hard drive using the mounting screws. The problem occurs when you slide the carrier into the enclosure. You attach the carrier on the one side using screws, but not the other (the side with the light). That is where the problem is. I removed and tried remounting it numerous times without any luck. However, the rubber piece fixed the problem in about a minute.

I'll reply to say that I believe I found the answer to my own questions on the Maxtor site. After looking through the data sheets for the Maxtor Quickview drives, I have located the following model numbers for the SATA drives.

100GB - 6L100M0
120GB - 6L120P0
160GB - 6L160M0
200GB - 6L200M0
250GB - 60250S0
300GB - 6L300S0 (thanks to tiny1055)
400GB - 3H400F0
500GB - 3H500F0

Drivie


Here is what I found for prices and availability:

Maxtor QuickView 500 - Hard drive - 400 GB - internal - 3.5" - SATA-300 - 22-position plug - 7200 rpm -- $227
http://www.c-source.com/ttechnote.asp?part_no=3H400F0&src=SP

400GB MAXLINE PRO 500-SATA 7200 16MB QU -- $232
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=704015&store=ecost&source=EWB07023&adcampaign=email,EWB07023

500GB MAXLINE PRO 500-SATA 7200 16MB QU -- $333
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=704016&store=ecost&source=EWB07023&adcampaign=email,EWB07023

The moral of this story: Make sure to buy a sata hard drive that handles error correction in a dvr way and and not PC way. The dvr way should pretty much ignore the error and move on. The PC way is to try to fix the error which could take some time and cause the dvr to freeze.

Its definitely the moral of YOUR story, but not everyone. These things are definitely hit and miss. I've had a 500GB drive for a long time now and don't have a single problem. I doubt this drive ignores error correction yet I don't have a problem. There is no sure fire answer as to what drives work and what don't. Its best left up to the user to buy from a place with a good return policy.

Hello All,

Sorry this wasn't done sooner and maybe someone else has already accomplished the same thing.

Here are the screenshots from the SATA working.

Please see earlier posts for details.


When I have time again I will take up the task of replicating this success and make a
second more thorough attempt.


~Galen

Hello All,

Sorry this wasn't done sooner and maybe someone else has already accomplished the same thing.

Here are the screenshots from the SATA working.

Please see earlier posts for details.


When I have time again I will take up the task of replicating this success and make a
second more thorough attempt.


~Galen
OK, but why does it say there's one storage device and then refer to it as internal?

There was one prior Passporter who reported getting an external drive working, but maybe the support is not yet complete - the hardware and part of the firmware "knows" about the external drive, but the OS doesn't?

I have it from a reliable source that Aptiv is six weeks away from Passport SATA support.

IIRC, galen was the first to get his to work with Passport (prior to the TWC-NC guys), albeit with some quirks like losing "pause TV" for a bit.

The screens seem to support the [confused disk controller] theory for his success...

v/r,
C-F

IIRC, galen was the first to get his to work with Passport (prior to the TWC-NC guys), albeit with some quirks like losing "pause TV" for a bit.

The screens seem to support the [confused disk controller] theory for his success...

v/r,
C-F
Ah yes, it's all coming back to me now . . .

fyi, outpost.com has Seagate 500GB SATA drives available for $199 after rebate, but they probably wont be around long.

If it's the one with the rebate, it's expired.

...
The moral of this story: Make sure to buy a sata hard drive that handles error correction in a dvr way and and not PC way. The dvr way should pretty much ignore the error and move on. The PC way is to try to fix the error which could take some time and cause the dvr to freeze.

I hope my story helps other people trying trying to do the same thing I did.

Scott
so do these sata drives that have relaxed error correction need to be configured to do this? or does the 8300 send commands to the drive telling it to relax its error correction? Do you need to set a jumper on the drive to have it relax its error correction? or even configure it by hooking it up to a PC first?

Yes, I attached the hard drive using the mounting screws. The problem occurs when you slide the carrier into the enclosure. You attach the carrier on the one side using screws, but not the other (the side with the light). That is where the problem is. I removed and tried remounting it numerous times without any luck. However, the rubber piece fixed the problem in about a minute.

You apparently did not get the optional rubber bumpers when you ordered yours. Mine already had some kind of black foam/rubber stuff glued to the inside of the case to stableize the free end of the drive carrier.

If it's the one with the rebate, it's expired.

It is now....as I said, it wouldn't be around long. They process stuff in California at Fry's Headquarters, thus on Pacific time. Was good until 3am Eastern.

It is now....as I said, it wouldn't be around long. They process stuff in California at Fry's Headquarters, thus on Pacific time. Was good until 3am Eastern.

I'm bummed I missed it :( It was a good deal.

I am new here, but I would like to do this for my timewarner supplied SA 8300 here in New York City. Can you tell me if ithis solution will work here?
Best regards,
Stan




At least in Shrewsbury, MA. Our town owns and operates its own cable company, so they do their own thing, but we're running SARA version 1.85.17.3.

So, I ordered the following items:

External enclosure (black plastic)-


SATA I to SATA II External Cable-

And a 120GB Maxtor Ultra Series SATA drive.

I plugged the unit in as described in the 8300HD manuals found online, and the 8300HD recognized the external drive and asked me if I wanted to format it. Once this was done (it did this very quickly) the remaining disk space on my existing 8300HD increased accordingly.

Now, I had to "fill up" my fairly new 8300HD's internal drive enough to equalize the remaining disk space on each drive. Once this was done, the 8300HD recorded my next recording to the external drive (the 8300HD always records to the drive with the most remaining space, and ping pongs back and forth).

So, if anyone has any questions, let me know.

-D

...So I started looking for a hard drive that had its error correction optimized for the dvr and I came across the Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L300S0 300GB Serial ATA (1.5Gb/s) 7200RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer which was supposely the one used in Maxtor's Quickdrives.
This is the exact hard drive that I have tried in my 8300HD and got plenty of freezes and skips.

Also, if it is the same drive used in the QuickView how do you explain that many people have had freezes and skips with the QuickViews as well?

I also tried the newer Maxtor drive, the MaxLine III (model number starting with "7") and had the same exact issues.

Sorry, but your findings are flawed. The 6L300S0 is not optimized for DVR use. It is a standard PC hard drive.

As far as I know there are no hard drives on the market optimized specifically for DVR use by using relaxed error correction. Even if there was, there is no evidence that error correction is the culprit when problems do occur.

I still believe the 8300HD itself is the cause of the problems, unless of course the hard drive is defective. Freezing and skipping issues are not likely to be resolved by changing to another hard drive. If it works for you, you are one of the lucky ones who's 8300HD hardware and/or firmware is more compatible with using an external device.

I am new here, but I would like to do this for my timewarner supplied SA 8300 here in New York City. Can you tell me if ithis solution will work here?
I don't remember seeing where TWCNY got the 2.5.048 upgrade. What's your Pasport version?

This is the exact hard drive that I have tried in my 8300HD and got plenty of freezes and skips.

Also, if it is the same drive used in the QuickView how do you explain that many people have had freezes and skips with the QuickViews as well?

I also tried the newer Maxtor drive, the MaxLine III (model number starting with "7") and had the same exact issues.

Sorry, but your findings are flawed. The 6L300S0 is not optimized for DVR use. It is a standard PC hard drive.

As far as I know there are no hard drives on the market optimized specifically for DVR use by using relaxed error correction. Even if there was, there is no evidence that error correction is the culprit when problems do occur.

I still believe the 8300HD itself is the cause of the problems, unless of course the hard drive is defective. Freezing and skipping issues are not likely to be resolved by changing to another hard drive. If it works for you, you are one of the lucky ones who's 8300HD hardware and/or firmware is more compatible with using an external device.
I'm with you. No way a drive sold for computer use would be optimized for streaming digital video/DVR use. Perhaps when the use it in the Quickview Extender they re-optimize it. (Their marketing materials say all the right things and touch all the right bases for the QE.) I have yet to see any drive with a big toggle switch - PC/DVR - but that's what we need.

And yet again we have a member raving about his success and another member posting his grief with the exact same drive.

And yet again we have a member raving about his success and another member posting his grief with the exact same drive.
Which says that there many issues in play. The early posters in this forum reported success. But then forums like these do attract those that just want to complain ;)

Another factor may well be the degree of tolerance one has for these jumps and skips. I usually experience about 1-2 skips/hour. I don't treat them with alarm - but others may find anything less than absolute perfection unacceptable. I should add that I generally have observed somewhat fewer skips on programs recorded on the external drive than the internal one.

Which says that there many issues in play. The early posters in this forum reported success. But then forums like these do attract those that just want to complain ;)

Another factor may well be the degree of tolerance one has for these jumps and skips. I usually experience about 1-2 skips/hour. I don't treat them with alarm - but others may find anything less than absolute perfection unacceptable. I should add that I generally have observed somewhat fewer skips on programs recorded on the external drive than the internal one.
Perhaps we should attack this from a different angle by contacting drive makers' tech departments and ask about defeating EC. It has to be doable.

1 or 2 skips wouldn't be bad. Mine skipped sometimes multiple times, enough to make it very aggrivating. But the most aggrivating part for me was partial recordings.

Now I'm trying to deal with having so much less disk space. My wife says stop recording HD. :confused: She can't see the difference. I sure wish it would have worked for me.

1 or 2 skips wouldn't be bad. Mine skipped sometimes multiple times, enough to make it very aggrivating. But the most aggrivating part for me was partial recordings.

Now I'm trying to deal with having so much less disk space. My wife says stop recording HD. :confused: She can't see the difference. I sure wish it would have worked for me.

You know what's interesting? I just recently got an external SATA drive for the newly upgraded Passport software (2.5.048) in my area. I've always gotten skips from the internal HDD, but now since I've connected the external drive, I get no skips at all. It seems the box is using the external drive as priority over the internal drive. Although now live TV buffering is disabled, but I think that has something to do with the software version not supporting the external drive fully.

This is the way it is in SARA and I suspect that Passport will be the same:
The 8300 decides what drive (internal or external) to used based on the percentage of space on each drive is available. Thus, if the internal drive is 55% full and the eternal drive is 56% full the recording will be sent to the internal drive.

Naturally, when an external drive is first installed it will be at 0%, so for quite some time all recordings will go to the external drive.

Now Passport may be different, but as that software is a layer above the base SA software, the odds are it will be the same.

Unless in galen's snapshots it is not just the [menu/formatting] that is confused, and the controller really is confused about what is where... thus causing the lack of a 'TCB' [buffer]...

Just tickled my OCD to play with Excel today...

Attachment is Excel worksheet saved as ".htm" so I could rename it and post it as .txt

v/r,
C-F

Got my new LCD HDTV (Sceptre 42") set up and after everything was connected, the TV, the DVD, VHS, Audio amp, and the SA83000HD, and all were working properly I added the external HD. I used the same Venteck Drive enclosure many others have and put a Seagate 7200 rpm 300 Gig SATA drive ($100 at Frys after rebate) in it. Followed the instructions for connecting it to the 8300 and it connected and formated on the first try. Took maybe 5 minutes total. Then recorded a HD tv program (Lost, which looked GREAT in HD), paused it while recording, restarted, finished and let it save, and then played it back. Everything is working properly at this point, no freezes or reboots or skips. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I'll be one of the lucky ones where this setup works like it's supposed to. I didn't disconnect the VenTeck light because I wanted to be able to see drive activity. I left the picture on pause for quite a while and it appeared that the drive may have parked, at least it seemed to not have any activity after a while. When I unpaused there was no noticable delay in the picture starting again. It's pretty quiet as far as spin noise but you can hear the heads moving if you stand next to it. :)


Update on Second day - System froze up. I was watching the program and could see the blue HD light simply go dark and the screen froze. When I touched the Ext HD it was really hot. So I shut everything down and took the HD out of the case and then rebooted the system. Came back up and everything has been ok since then. When I first pulled the drive out of the case it was at about 120 F. So I just left it out of the case so it would have better cooling. Don't really need a case the way I have things set up. If it acts up again I'll post again.

Another factor may well be the degree of tolerance one has for these jumps and skips. I usually experience about 1-2 skips/hour. I don't treat them with alarm - but others may find anything less than absolute perfection unacceptable. I should add that I generally have observed somewhat fewer skips on programs recorded on the external drive than the internal one.
This is not the case for me. I'd be very happy if my 8300HD skipped once or twice per hours.

I get a complete freeze that lasts anywhere from 10-20 seconds, during which time the 8300HD is unresponsive to any command. This happens at least 5 times per hour. In addition I get occasional skips.

any similiar issues or resolutions from anyone?
8300 hd nexstar external 300g seagate 7200 sata drive
using sara sofware

I am trying to isolate a pixallation issue again .since I installed the new external- I seem to have more when watching (live!) HD
but have had many issues of the last two years .
I have unplugged it for a day to see if there is less when using only the internal drive-
does everything we watch on the8300hd go to the drive first?

I was told live tv is not being read off the drive

so I tried the following:

had the external disconnected for a day - with no apparent issues- last night
checked PBS and Discovery for about 40 minutes no issues - re-connected the external and started to get break ups again on live tv -usually every 3-4 minutes - can't think why unless the external is sending some kind of signal back to the 8300? or draining signal power!!

turned off the extenal for a few days -

pulled everything out disconnected and re set up from scratch- drive recognized and was being used- within 5 minutes I tsrated getting break ups every 3-4 minutes on all channel while watching "live"- so about and hour later i turned off the external box -
went back to the guide - 8300hd ok - no break ups other the odd mini noise wheihc happens
every hour or so

I do not know how the external should be affecting live watching?

any help appreciated

I am sorry to be a whiner but what I hate about these threads is that ultimately there is some concensus information that makes early posts incorrect and one has to read 55 pages of posts to find out what the current state of affairs is. For these stickies to be useful there should be a top level post that lists the current state of affairs. I don't know why AVS is the only forum in the world that insists on these master thread structures that leave us with information overload. Not all of us have endless ammounts of time to read this much stuff, when a lot of it is not even pertinent to the topic.

Again, I know I'm whining, I don't know the solution, sorry for bitching.. Carry on :)

You are not alone, but I lost that argument when I started the 8300HD Tips and Phoenix threads. At least vegggas had the foresight to update his first post in the original 8000HD thread and I kept it up for the 8300HD Tips thread. Unfortunately, it takes a bit of work to do that and also takes someone sticking around long enough to do it. I haven't seen DMILANI post for while and I think he started this thread. I'm sure some enterprising member could put together a synopsis of this thread, start a new thread with it, and get folks to make the move with a little help from the mods, but I doubt that will happen. Of course, one could post a synopsis (SATA User's Guide) in a new thread and just keep it updated with info from this thread, kind of like a FAQ on some forums. :)

DoubleDAZ, I see what you mean.

Well let me ask a few questions anyway. Right now is there a known set of hard drives that do not cause skipping? And am I OK to get any SATA enclosure or is there a particular one I should get?

DoubleDAZ, I see what you mean.

Well let me ask a few questions anyway. Right now is there a known set of hard drives that do not cause skipping? And am I OK to get any SATA enclosure or is there a particular one I should get?
The collective wisdom is that there are no guarantees. I think there are a few complete external SATA "solutions" that have great success, and perhaps a drive or two done DIY. It's recommended that you get a case that keeps the drive cool, but there's disagreement over whether passive does that well enough or if a case/fan is the way to go.

Pepar, what are the external solutions called? What is the name of the product I mean?

How about this, its a dual drive enclosure with a quiet fan?

http://www.store.yahoo.com/firmtek/sata1en2.html

The other problem I have is people here are talking about things as if we are all supposed to know what they mean. What is Passport? What is all this stuff? Is there a faq somewhere?

ok so ive flipped through here and thus far the info i have found has been very helpful. My question however deals with hardware compatibility i want to confirm all of this before i go out and buy. I would like an external enclosure that has both the sata plug and a usb(usb2 prefered) plug on it so that in the event i wanted to no longer use the hard drive on my box i could move it to my laptop, reformat it, and use it as an external hard drive or vice versa. whats availible for me to use? I would also like to go with a western digital drive but thus far i have only seen vague references to them being used. what wd hardrives are compatible with the 8300HD? (btw i have the SARA system and im on Time Warner in Albany, NY if that matters). thanks

The other problem I have is people here are talking about things as if we are all supposed to know what they mean. What is Passport? What is all this stuff? Is there a faq somewhere?

Passport and SARA are two different operating systems that run on the SA 8300HD.

Thx, how do you know which one you have on your 8300HD? And what significance does it have?

Thx, how do you know which one you have on your 8300HD? And what significance does it have?

Check out this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859) thread, specifically the first post, for how to determine the software. I don't have an answer to your second question.

Hi sharpie,

Looks like you're getting shown around. Everybody starts where you are now. Just do a lot of reading. Big threads are so old that the first few pages are now irrelevant. But, if you can, read the last two months of posts on any thread dealing with your topic of interest.

If you are looking at a dual drive enclosure for some future, non-DVR use, that's fine. But you'll never be able to use two drives with your settop box (STB).

But you'll never be able to use two drives with your settop box (STB).

'Never' is a strong word..... SATA defines a 'port multiplier' which allows multiple drives to be attached to a single port.

http://www.sata-io.org/portmultiplier.asp

'Never' is a strong word..... SATA defines a 'port multiplier' which allows multiple drives to be attached to a single port.

Yes, but if you check back earlier in this thread (I know that it is tough to wade through all those pages) you will see some knowledgable discussion of the problems of using external drives approaching 500GB. The issue is that the directory ("List") is held in RAM and that there appears to be a somewhat "soft" (meaning malfunctions start to increase) upper limit that is around 500GB.

'Never' is a strong word..... SATA defines a 'port multiplier' which allows multiple drives to be attached to a single port.

http://www.sata-io.org/portmultiplier.asp
Indeed, it does. But to the OS, three drives on a port multiplier are the same as three drives with individial cables to the host controller resulting in three drive letters. Personally, I'll be happy to get just one honkin' drive on the thing before they change their minds about it completely and want to rent us storage on their servers.

Personally, I'll be happy to get just one honkin' drive on the thing before they change their minds about it completely and want to rent us storage on their servers.

That goes without saying...... I would settle for an external 160GB right now :) .

I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on this. The reason is this, considering that the quality of cable HD is subpar (compression being a key problem) and seeing as how these drives are rendered useless if your STB is swapped out, I just can't see the value in such a risky move.

The problem is that cable companies don't make their intentions to us known. We have no idea what they are going to do down the road and I just can't justify it as much as I'd like to be able to store more HD programming.

I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on this. The reason is this, considering that the quality of cable HD is subpar (compression being a key problem) and seeing as how these drives are rendered useless if your STB is swapped out, I just can't see the value in such a risky move.

The problem is that cable companies don't make their intentions to us known. We have no idea what they are going to do down the road and I just can't justify it as much as I'd like to be able to store more HD programming.I don't want to get into a coke vs. pepsi / cable vs. satellite/OTA/whatever debate, but I have three comments:

1) "...the quality of cable HD is subpar". My cableco (TWC-Houston) rebroadcasts the same HD signal that is available OTA for the local channels. Similarly, HD content from other sources is "unprocessed" by TWC. I get the HD signal as it comes "from the factory", with no modifications. Maybe your cableco is different, but people from around the country and with various levels of knowledge read this thread, so I wanted to point out that your statement is not accurate in general, so folks don't get the wrong ideas.

2) "...these drives are rendered useless if your STB is swapped out". Again, that's an inaccurate statement without some additional qualifiers. If the STB is swapped out for the same model, then you'll lose whatever you had recorded (on both the internal and external drives), but the new STB will reformat the drive and it'll still work. If you swap STBs to some new model that doesn't allow external SATA storage, then simply pull the drive out of its enclosure and stick it into a SATA-capable computer to get some use out of it. Worst-case, if you don't have any other use for it, sell it on eBay. Point is, the drive is not rendered instantly "useless" (or valueless) if the DVR goes away.

3) "I can't see the value in such a risky move..." It cost me less than $150 to add 300GB to my DVR. I've been able to record dozens of movies, sports events, and other programs that would have otherwise gone unrecorded due to lack of space. If I ever decide to take that drive off my DVR, I've got a PC that could certainly use it. For me, and for others, it was worth it. For you, it may not be.

But the value in threads like this one is that folks can make decisions with the best information available, so that's why I threw in my $0.02.

I don't want to get into a coke vs. pepsi / cable vs. satellite/OTA/whatever debate, but I have two comments:

1) "...the quality of cable HD is subpar". My cableco (TWC-Houston) rebroadcasts the same HD signal that is available OTA for the local channels. Similarly, HD content from other sources is "unprocessed" by TWC. I get the HD signal as it comes "from the factory", with no modifications. Maybe your cableco is different, but people from around the country and with various levels of knowledge read this thread, so I wanted to point out that your statement is not accurate in general, so folks don't get the wrong ideas.

2) "...these drives are rendered useless if your STB is swapped out". Again, that's an inaccurate statement without some additional qualifiers. If the STB is swapped out for the same model, then you'll lose whatever you had recorded (on both the internal and external drives), but the new STB will reformat the drive and it'll still work. If you swap STBs to some new model that doesn't allow external SATA storage, then simply pull the drive out of its enclosure and stick it into a SATA-capable computer to get some use out of it. Worst-case, if you don't have any other use for it, sell it on eBay. Point is, the drive is not rendered instantly "useless" (or valueless) if the DVR goes away.

3) "I can't see the value in such a risky move..." It cost me less than $150 to add 300GB to my DVR. I've been able to record dozens of movies, sports events, and other programs that would have otherwise gone unrecorded due to lack of space. If I ever decide to take that drive off my DVR, I've got a PC that could certainly use it. For me, and for others, it was worth it. For you, it may not be.

But the value in threads like this one is that folks can make decisions with the best information available, so that's why I threw in my $0.02.

I second that. I couldn't be happier with my external 300GB drive, and have put it to ALOT of use. If a day comes when a new DVR no longer needs it (or doesn't accept it), I will hook it up to my PC's external SATA connector.

Here in Vegas, at least earlier on, a discussion was had that compared the quality of OTA to Cable. There was no discernable difference, since our cable provider (Cox) passes the signal with no additional compression.

I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on this. The reason is this, considering that the quality of cable HD is subpar (compression being a key problem) and seeing as how these drives are rendered useless if your STB is swapped out, I just can't see the value in such a risky move.

The problem is that cable companies don't make their intentions to us known. We have no idea what they are going to do down the road and I just can't justify it as much as I'd like to be able to store more HD programming.
I wouldn't agree that cable HD is subpar as my experience is that it is excellent to stunning. Your point about losing recordings if the box goes south it right on though. But then, you've still got the drive and can attach it to the next STB and fill 'er up again. As long as we don't come to think that we own the content/files, we shouldn't get too upset if they become useless.

Its definitely the moral of YOUR story, but not everyone. These things are definitely hit and miss. I've had a 500GB drive for a long time now and don't have a single problem. I doubt this drive ignores error correction yet I don't have a problem. There is no sure fire answer as to what drives work and what don't. Its best left up to the user to buy from a place with a good return policy.
I did a little research on your hard drive, the Hitachi Deskstar 7K500 500GB Serial ATA II 7200RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer, and it is indeed optimized for audio/vidio performance. Here is the article that proves it. I cannot post links yet so do a google search for xbitlabs and 20050106072724.html to find the article. Here is a quote from the artical, "Based on newly ratified ATA-7 AV Streaming Feature Set standard, Hitachi’s Smooth Stream enables the host to control the drive’s error recovery process. This feature tunes the drive to capture video data streams."

so do these sata drives that have relaxed error correction need to be configured to do this? or does the 8300 send commands to the drive telling it to relax its error correction? Do you need to set a jumper on the drive to have it relax its error correction? or even configure it by hooking it up to a PC first?
I also found a great article by Hitachi that explains what I meant by being optimized for a DVR or Audio/Video performance. I hope this article answers your question. It definitely answered some of mine. Do a google search for Smooth_Stream_White_Paper_FINAL.pdf and you will find the document.

To update my statement in the previous post that said to buy a hard drive that handles error correction in a DVR way: The hard drive should support AV Streaming or the ATA-7 AV Streaming standard. The drive might or might not work, but at least you are increasing your chances by getting one that supports this technology.

My hard drive status update:
I have been using my new drive for about 2 weeks now, with about 45 recordings, and have not have any problems except the minor pixelation issues you get when you get a poor signal from your cable operator. The worst problem with my old drive, locking up completely while watching a recorded show, does not happen anymore with the new drive.

I did a little research on your hard drive, the Hitachi Deskstar 7K500 500GB Serial ATA II 7200RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer, and it is indeed optimized for audio/vidio performance. Here is the article that proves it. I cannot post links yet so do a google search for xbitlabs and 20050106072724.html to find the article. Here is a quote from the artical, "Based on newly ratified ATA-7 AV Streaming Feature Set standard, Hitachi’s Smooth Stream enables the host to control the drive’s error recovery process. This feature tunes the drive to capture video data streams."


I also found a great article by Hitachi that explains what I meant by being optimized for a DVR or Audio/Video performance. I hope this article answers your question. It definitely answered some of mine. Do a google search for Smooth_Stream_White_Paper_FINAL.pdf and you will find the document.

To update my statement in the previous post that said to buy a hard drive that handles error correction in a DVR way: The hard drive should support AV Streaming or the ATA-7 AV Streaming standard. The drive might or might not work, but at least you are increasing your chances by getting one that supports this technology.
Ahh yes, Smooth Stream. The 8300HD's SATA host controller, I don't think, is ATA-7 compliant. We'll see. Good luck!

I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on this. The reason is this, considering that the quality of cable HD is subpar (compression being a key problem)

You've already had some comments on this. But I'd like to add a couple of additional considerations:
1) In many markets OTA stations feed the cable head end directly (via fiber or microwave) and where those stations multicast (many, if not most, PBS stations do) the cable signal will be superior to OTA. At worst, cable is no worse than OTA.
2) Both satellite providers (DirecTV and Dish Network) do not broadcast full (1080 x 1920) HD. They call it HD, but instead it is "HD-Lite"
http://www.stophdlite.com/hdlite/hdcomp.html

Now, perhaps you have some signal strength issues with your particuar cableco, but in general that is our current best source of true HD

Now, perhaps you have some signal strength issues with your particuar cableco, but in general that is our current best source of true HD
In spite of my needling and whining, I have to agree . . . wholeheartedly.

I wouldn't agree that cable HD is subpar as my experience is that it is excellent to stunning. Your point about losing recordings if the box goes south it right on though. But then, you've still got the drive and can attach it to the next STB and fill 'er up again. As long as we don't come to think that we own the content/files, we shouldn't get too upset if they become useless.

Yes let me qualify that. The Cablevision feed that I get is nice but has the same MPEG related noise artifacts that can be found on DVDs. Clearly this is less than optimal, and a BlueRay disc or D-VHS should have less if not none at all if the encoding job was done well.

You may experience a better cable feed that is true, but for me Cable HiDef is a crapshoot based on where you live. There is not standard spec on the compression that cable companies are forced to use. As they add channels to your area, I am sure you will start to notice more compression, at least until they widen their pipes.

You've already had some comments on this. But I'd like to add a couple of additional considerations:
1) In many markets OTA stations feed the cable head end directly (via fiber or microwave) and where those stations multicast (many, if not most, PBS stations do) the cable signal will be superior to OTA. At worst, cable is no worse than OTA.
2) Both satellite providers (DirecTV and Dish Network) do not broadcast full (1080 x 1920) HD. They call it HD, but instead it is "HD-Lite"
http://www.stophdlite.com/hdlite/hdcomp.html

Now, perhaps you have some signal strength issues with your particuar cableco, but in general that is our current best source of true HD

No I believe the current best source of true HD would be a D-Theater tape.

My issue as I said in my previous post is not signal strength or resolution, its the high compression ration used by cable companies in order to jam as many HD channel down their pipe as possible. This is visible, and is why the Algolith Mesquito exists.

No I believe the current best source of true HD would be a D-Theater tape.
You sure are correct on that!

My issue as I said in my previous post is not signal strength or resolution, its the high compression ration used by cable companies in order to jam as many HD channel down their pipe as possible. This is visible, and is why the Algolith Mesquito exists.
Most cable companies are using the same modulation and compression. But, for ANY method to work in practical bandwidths, some compression is necessary - and I wonder if what you seeing is just that. Any OTA/cable/satellite real-time transmission will likely suffer from this. Perhaps the new fiber system MIGHT offer better transmission (but I doubt it).

You sure are correct on that!


Most cable companies are using the same modulation and compression. But, for ANY method to work in practical bandwidths, some compression is necessary - and I wonder if what you seeing is just that. Any OTA/cable/satellite real-time transmission will likely suffer from this. Perhaps the new fiber system MIGHT offer better transmission (but I doubt it).

Yeah, I don't hold out a lot of hope for a delivery mechanism that will meet the desires of videophiles, since the vast majority of customers are not videophiles. I can only hope that BlueRay wins this war as its best positioned with its large capacity to enable minimal compression on its film encodings.

But this is starting to go a bit off topic, I apologize. I guess there is some value in an external drive, its not as if I don't enjoy broadcast HD. I do, I am just a little annoyed at the idea of building up a collection and then having to start from scratch if my STB fails.

No I believe the current best source of true HD would be a D-Theater tape.
If you've got no horizon this is probably true. But one nanosecond after BD/HD-DVD debut, D-VHS decks will have ZERO resale value. I know there's been a limited, but enthusiastic market for this source, but it has always struck me as myopic and I've resented the mere existence and ESPECIALLY the pricing of this dodo magnet tape medium.

If you've got no horizon this is probably true. But one nanosecond after BD/HD-DVD debut, D-VHS decks will have ZERO resale value. I know there's been a limited, but enthusiastic market for this source, but it has always struck me as myopic and I've resented the mere existence and ESPECIALLY the pricing of this dodo magnet tape medium.

This is similar to the nice S-VHS VCR that I have that hasn't been hooked up in several years. Why bother now that DVD recorders are available (and relatively cheap)...

I am not suggesting that anyone engage in DVHS collecting, I was merely correcting the other poster who stated that the current best source of HD content was through Cable/Sat HD. Because it clearly isn't, its DVHS.

But yes, I agree its impractical and pointless to begin down the path of DVHS, unless you have money to burn and endless spite for Toshiba and Sony, or are just generally impatient to test the limits of your display (which HD cable clearly will not do as well as DVHS).

That's all I was getting at. Like I said, I am hoping BR pulls out a winner. You figure Sony has been losing these fights forever (BetaMax, MiniDisc, SACD, etc) that eventually it is going to get it right, but eventually could be in 15 years from now... :)

That's all I was getting at. Like I said, I am hoping BR pulls out a winner. You figure Sony has been losing these fights forever (BetaMax, MiniDisc, SACD, etc) that eventually it is going to get it right, but eventually could be in 15 years from now... :)

I'm still holding out hope that the two formats will merge into one. There's still talk about that lurking in the news every now and then. I think I read something along those lines just last week.

I just know that every time Sony pulls out there own format (see list above), even though it may be technically better, they do something to stifle it's growth, much the same way Apple Computers used to.

I am just a little annoyed at the idea of building up a collection and then having to start from scratch if my STB fails."Building up a collection" sounds like you are thinking of using your external drive for semi-permanent archiving. Is that really what you mean?

I keep a "collection" of unwatched movies on hand on my DVR as additional choices for when I want to watch TV for a couple of hours. When I watch one, I delete it and replace it with something else that looks interesting. If those recordings got wiped somehow, big deal; I'd just skim through the IPG for suitable replacements, and have a new "collection" within a few days.

If you look at an external drive as a large buffer for indefinite program storage, it's a pretty good solution.

If you're looking for a method to build a "permanent" program archive from broadcast material, then I agree it's not a robust solution at all.

But then, a hammer makes a lousy screwdriver, too...

That's all I was getting at. Like I said, I am hoping BR pulls out a winner. You figure Sony has been losing these fights forever (BetaMax, MiniDisc, SACD, etc) that eventually it is going to get it right, but eventually could be in 15 years from now... :)

(Memory Stick, UMD... at least BetaMax had some technical chops :) )

I have subscribed and read this multi-page thread for over 2 months now, and, I still do not know the answer to the basic [Y,N] question:

Q. Is there a certifiabley relaible 400GB/500 GB Hard Drive and External eSATA enclosure that works MOST of the time on MOST cable systems (mine is Cox Cable Santa Barbara CA)?

Say what you want about UMD, the PSP is a technical achievement, so was PSOne. I can tell you having coded to them. Sony knows games and gaming hardware.

UMD has more to do with their executives and their insane obsession over controlling their IP. But then again so did Memory Stick and MiniDisc :)

I have subscribed and read this multi-page thread for over 2 months now, and, I still do not know the answer to the basic [Y,N] question:

Q. Is there a certifiabley relaible 400GB/500 GB Hard Drive and External eSATA enclosure that works MOST of the time on MOST cable systems (mine is Cox Cable Santa Barbara CA)?If you've been following this thread for two months, then you shouldn't be surprised that it's difficult to answer that question.

I think there are too many variables in play and too few folks trying the external drive experiment and reporting their results for anyone to build a useful database of drive/enclosure/SA software version/cable company/success/problems.

As I posted recently, with the data available today, "You pays your nickel and you takes your chance..."

Say what you want about UMD, the PSP is a technical achievement, so was PSOne. I can tell you having coded to them. Sony knows games and gaming hardware.

UMD has more to do with their executives and their insane obsession over controlling their IP. But then again so did Memory Stick and MiniDisc :)

I have a PSP, it's a wonderful thing. I was addressing Sony's insane, and completely hysterical, control issues. They're a classic cartoon case of corporate multiple personality disorder.

Fazookus, I totaly agree. The only company with a seemingly more dimented executive staff might be Nintendo, but in a much quirkier way. Sony is like the mental patient that needs to be restrained from hurting itself. Nintendo is the mental patient walking around the halls who thinks he's Napolean, living in another world from the rest of us...

I have subscribed and read this multi-page thread for over 2 months now, and, I still do not know the answer to the basic [Y,N] question:

Q. Is there a certifiabley relaible 400GB/500 GB Hard Drive and External eSATA enclosure that works MOST of the time on MOST cable systems (mine is Cox Cable Santa Barbara CA)?

NO

Nothing certifiable in that size range PERIOD.

Nothing that works on MOST cable systems - still does not fully work on Passport systems.

Now you have your (simple Y,N) answer.

However...............................

Sorry if I haven't read all the prior posts here, but I need to know what is the SATA connection is with the 8300HD.

I have a 3250HD cable box currently with TWC in NYC. The system is running Passport 3.3 build 029. This latest build added something that stopped a clean copy with a D-theatre copy protected D-VHS HVC Recorder. The D-VHS recordings are filled with video and audio drop outs.

I'd like to know if you guys are:

1. Putting large SATA drives (up to 500GB) into the 8300 HD box to record HD shows.

2. If the above is true, then is the recorded 1920x1080 material readable and playable inside a Window powered PC running say PowerDVD, Windows Media Player, or VLC player?

3. Is the firewire port of the 8300HD active? Can this output go directly into a D-VHS recorder or into the 1394 connector of a Windows PC?

4. Does the 8300HD have a working DVI and HDMI?

Many thanks!


Paul
Forest Hills, NYC

paulchiu_28@yahoo.com

cecorded 1920x1080? isn't that 1080p? i don't believe anything is being broadcast in 1080p, but mostly 1080i. unless i am misunderstanding your question or am completely a fool (quite possible, you never know ;)..

cecorded 1920x1080? isn't that 1080p? i don't believe anything is being broadcast in 1080p, but mostly 1080i. unless i am misunderstanding your question or am completely a fool (quite possible, you never know ;)..

1920x1080 is merely the resolution of 2 of the formats; 1080i and 1080p. TWC also transmits 720P which is 1280x720. I believe there are a number of other sanctioned HDTV formats.

This is not my question. My questions are the following if you can help.

1. Putting large SATA drives (up to 500GB) into the 8300 HD box to record HD shows.

2. If the above is true, then is the recorded 1920x1080 material readable and playable inside a Window powered PC running say PowerDVD, Windows Media Player, or VLC player?

3. Is the firewire port of the 8300HD active? Can this output go directly into a D-VHS recorder or into the 1394 connector of a Windows PC?

4. Does the 8300HD have a working DVI and HDMI?

Thanks!


Paul
Forest Hills, NYC

paulchiu_28@yahoo.com

Sorry if I haven't read all the prior posts here, but I need to know what is the SATA connection is with the 8300HD.

I have a 3250HD cable box currently with TWC in NYC. The system is running Passport 3.3 build 029. This latest build added something that stopped a clean copy with a D-theatre copy protected D-VHS HVC Recorder. The D-VHS recordings are filled with video and audio drop outs.

I'd like to know if you guys are:

1. Putting large SATA drives (up to 500GB) into the 8300 HD box to record HD shows.

2. If the above is true, then is the recorded 1920x1080 material readable and playable inside a Window powered PC running say PowerDVD, Windows Media Player, or VLC player?

3. Is the firewire port of the 8300HD active? Can this output go directly into a D-VHS recorder or into the 1394 connector of a Windows PC?

4. Does the 8300HD have a working DVI and HDMI?

Many thanks!


Paul
Forest Hills, NYC

paulchiu_28@yahoo.com

1) No - we are attaching external SATA drives to the eSATA port on the back of the SA8300.

2) Not sure what you are asking here, but it looks like you are asking can you remove that drive from the 8300 and read it on a PC. If this is your question, the answer is NO - the data recorded on the HD is encrypted with a key unique to your SA8300 - without that key there is no way to recover the data.

3) Firewire is the subject of other threads. It usually is active on most systems, but it does use 5C copy protection, so it works with devices that have that (D-VHS) but this is problematic on PCs. There is a thread on the PC aspect:
Recording to PC from a SA8300HD via Firewire (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593271)

4) Yes, but "working" can be debatable. The 8300HD has a HDMI output and a strict implementation of HDCP. There are some displays that do not have a good implementation of HDCP and the 8300 is not tolerant of that. Also the 8300 does not work with receivers (such as Denon) which do not relinquish HDCP control to the 8300.

Answers and all kind of information and debate on the above can be found on many threads in the AVS Forum:
HDTV Recorders (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=42)

1) No - we are attaching external SATA drives to the eSATA port on the back of the SA8300.

2) Not sure what you are asking here, but it looks like you are asking can you remove that drive from the 8300 and read it on a PC. If this is your question, the answer is NO - the data recorded on the HD is encrypted with a key unique to your SA8300 - without that key there is no way to recover the data.

3) Firewire is the subject of other threads. It usually is active on most systems, but it does use 5C copy protection, so it works with devices that have that (D-VHS) but this is problematic on PCs. There is a thread on the PC aspect:
Recording to PC from a SA8300HD via Firewire (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593271)

4) Yes, but "working" can be debatable. The 8300HD has a HDMI output and a strict implementation of HDCP. There are some displays that do not have a good implementation of HDCP and the 8300 is not tolerant of that. Also the 8300 does not work with receivers (such as Denon) which do not relinquish HDCP control to the 8300.

Answers and all kind of information and debate on the above can be found on many threads in the AVS Forum:
HDTV Recorders (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=42)


Dave,

That covers all my concerns.
I guess after you load up one 500GB external SATA, you're need to daisy chain another and another to build a library of HDTV programs.

Thanks again.

Paul

I guess after you load up one 500GB external SATA, you're need to daisy chain another and another to build a library of HDTV programs.

Burried back a few page in this thread is a good discussion on this. Apparently the SA8300 keeps the directory (list) in RAM - and RAM is finite in this box. The result is that when you start to fill up a 500GB drive the directory runs out of RAM and is not to graceful when that happens. People with 400-500GB drives seem to have a higher incidence of problems than those with 300GB (and smaller) ones. Also, the only "officially sanctioned" external HD solutions, the Maxtor Quickview, is only available in 160GB and 300GB sizes.

Dave,

That covers all my concerns.
I guess after you load up one 500GB external SATA, you're need to daisy chain another and another to build a library of HDTV programs.

Thanks again.

Paul
There is no daisy-chaining, and fuggetabout "building a library." Look at it more as delayed viewing options. Anything more than that and you are setting yourself up to be majorly disappointed. If you need to swap STBs, you lose the files. If the drive crashes, you lose the files. The external drive cannot be backed up - at least not in hi-def resolutions.

There is no daisy-chaining, and fuggetabout "building a library." Look at it more as delayed viewing options. Anything more than that and you are setting yourself up to be majorly disappointed. If you need to swap STBs, you lose the files. If the drive crashes, you lose the files. The external drive cannot be backed up - at least not in hi-def resolutions.


I guess once 300GB is reached, I'll need to look for programs to delete.

Gosh I really need that HD-DVD to come sooner than later. Building a HD library on my own is not happening; so it seems.


Paul

I guess once 300GB is reached, I'll need to look for programs to delete.

Gosh I really need that HD-DVD to come sooner than later. Building a HD library on my own is not happening; so it seems.


Paul

Well, the following SA product might answer your desire, but I haven't heard of it's deployment:
SA MCP-100 DVR with DVD writer (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/7007081.pdf)

It allows you to "archive" HD recordings to a recordable DVD. Note, these recordings can only be played on the device that made them (same issue as with the external drive - DVDs made are data DVDs with proprietary format and encoded bitstream).

This was announced a year ago (April 3, 2005), but interest these days seem to be in Remote DVR approaches - so I sort of doubt if this product will ever really make it out there.

NO

Nothing certifiable in that size range PERIOD.

Nothing that works on MOST cable systems - still does not fully work on Passport systems.

Now you have your (simple Y,N) answer.

However...............................

Thanks.

Let me ask my question differently:

what large hard drive and enclosure combo has had the MOST success - i.e. which size & brand 250/300/320/400/500 GB drive and the brand external enclosure using the which brand eSATA cable.

I guess once 300GB is reached, I'll need to look for programs to delete.

Gosh I really need that HD-DVD to come sooner than later. Building a HD library on my own is not happening; so it seems.
I must say that the SA8300HD has very much enriched my home theater experience, even with only 20 hours (or so) of hi-def storage capability. Case in point: The first time I saw Chronicles of Riddick was on the Director's Cut DVD I purchased. I watched it 3-4 times in a row. And then it came on HBOHD; I recorded and watched it. Whoaa! Things were missing. Important plot development things. So now I watch the DVD once and a while so that my mind will "fill in" when I watch the hi-def HBO version. Thankfully, all of the other hi-def content I've got on the 8300HD is identical to the theater or my DVD version.

Just my $.02.

Thanks.

Let me ask my question differently:

what large hard drive and enclosure combo has had the MOST success - i.e. which size & brand 250/300/320/400/500 GB drive and the brand external enclosure using the which brand eSATA cable.
Not trying to be a smart-a22, but we probably don't know the answer to that question as we usually only see complaints. We have no idea how many external SATA users there are out there with no issues, or what they're using. Having said that, the Maxtor Quickview Extender seems like a safe bet. Also, there's a member posting here from DiscounTech, a company that puts together a complete solution and backs it wit a very nice guarentee.

Burried back a few page in this thread is a good discussion on this. Apparently the SA8300 keeps the directory (list) in RAM - and RAM is finite in this box. The result is that when you start to fill up a 500GB drive the directory runs out of RAM and is not to graceful when that happens. People with 400-500GB drives seem to have a higher incidence of problems than those with 300GB (and smaller) ones. Also, the only "officially sanctioned" external HD solutions, the Maxtor Quickview, is only available in 160GB and 300GB sizes.

With the 500GB drive I've got, the longest I've gone without watching anything but still adding is 3 weeks. There were a ton of shows (about 15 shows a week, sometimes more, all but 2 or 3 are in hd) and the box still has no problems. I don't know what the upper limit is (if there is one) but I have yet to hit it.

Mike it would be really great if you could try to fill it up for us to see at what point you hit a limit. That is if you don't mind potentially losing it and requiring a reformat.

Also, can you tell us what drive you're using along with what enclosure?

Sharpie,
Again, if you go back you'll see discussion of this. The problem apparently (as stated by those who seem to be in the know) is that different cable systems, versions of SARA and other things use up a variable amount of RAM - leaving the amount for the directory variable. The result is that the upper limit is "soft" - it varies. Mike is apparently has a relatively high limit - right now.

I did a little research on your hard drive, the Hitachi Deskstar 7K500 500GB Serial ATA II 7200RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer, and it is indeed optimized for audio/vidio performance.... "Based on newly ratified ATA-7 AV Streaming Feature Set standard, Hitachi’s Smooth Stream enables the host to control the drive’s error recovery process. This feature tunes the drive to capture video data streams."
The key words being newly ratified.

The SA8300HD has been out for several years now. I think it's safe to say that the SATA controller in a box that was designed several years before ATA-7 was ratified does not support that standard.

I'd be happy to purchase that drive if it was guaranteed to offer problem-free operation with the SA8300HD. I just don't see how anyone can make that claim.

The drive combo with the most univerasal acceptance has been the complete 160GB Maxtor Quickview Expander KIT. Each piece of the chain retains the SATA2 convention and protection and is low enough on menory to cause the least problems. The enclosure is also a SATA2 enclosure that does NOT conform to USB or 1394 ports, and is SATA2 exclusive.
Those that are using adapters to use SATA1 devices (drives, cables, or enclosures) are not fully being compliant to the SATA2 spec and the desired compliance of the external connection. An adapter is just that, it Adapts the connection to make it fit and supposedly work for PC applications.

Dave,
The MCP-100 DVR - DVD burner was working at this years CES. I used it and it looked and acted great. They were in final approval from cable labs and on the way to getting approval from cable co's to get some field testing. Expect it to be on some minor markets mid year and available to larger markets closer to the end of the year.
I had a thread about it the recorders section, but it may have fallen into the archives by now...

vegggas

Looks like Hitachi (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1945904,00.asp) is getting into the mix...

I have subscribed and read this multi-page thread for over 2 months now, and, I still do not know the answer to the basic [Y,N] question:

Q. Is there a certifiabley relaible 400GB/500 GB Hard Drive and External eSATA enclosure that works MOST of the time on MOST cable systems (mine is Cox Cable Santa Barbara CA)?

If I were a lawyer, I'm sure that I'd be paranoid about how to answer "certifiably reliable 400/500GB hard drive". However, I'm not so let me explain what we offer:
We guarantee our neTegriti 8300 HD 400GB eSATA DVR Hard Drive (http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.12/it.A/id.383/.f) solution to work with SARA based 8300HD DVR boxes. If our solution does not work for any reason (within 30 days) you can return the entire kit for a full refund (not including shipping). So your maximum risk is the cost of shipping, we eat the rest if you're not happy. So you don't have to "pay your nickel and your take your chance..." as jruhnke states, you can get your nickel back!

Currently the percentage of customers for whom our 400GB solution does not work is around 5%. The problem is that a few systems seem to have video "glitches". So far all or almost all of the DVRs with the glitching have Western Digital internal drives (listed on the info page as WDC). If you have SARA and a Maxtor internal drive, the likelihood of our solution not working is very low.

Also, we have just made the bold decision to move to a thick =fan-less= aluminium SATA enclosure (http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.12/it.A/id.383/.f#photos) . We have done this for multiple reasons:
This enclosure has enough heat conductivity/disappation and air ventilation to run without a fan, and still keep temperatures reasonable.
Fans in our previous enclosure, although sufficiently quiet early in their life, were getting louder over time as they became worn (this is a 24x7 product) .

So these drives just became as quiet as you could get. Now all we need are solid state hard drives, fan-less projectors and we'd be watching films with zero background noise. (I can dream can't I?)

We need more data to identify any patterns. Can anyone who experiences video glitches whilst their external drive is attached (but NOT when it is NOT attached) please report the following:

SARA Version: (e.g. 1.88.153)
Internal Hard Drive brand and model: (e.g. WDC WD1600BB-56GUC0)
Firmware: (e.g. 20.02H20)
External Hard Drive brand and model: (e.g. WDC WD1600BB-56GUC0)
SN / SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio): (e.g. 35 dBmV)

Thanks!

Jesse.

If I were a lawyer, I'm sure that I'd be paranoid about how to answer "certifiably reliable 400/500GB hard drive". However, I'm not so let me explain what we offer: (I can dream can't I?)

I like a man who is not intimidated by lawyer-speak from someone like me (who is NOT a lawyer).

POWERBUY...POWERBUY...POWERBUY...

Also, we have just made the bold decision to move to a thick =fan-less= aluminium SATA enclosure (http://discountechnology.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.12/it.A/id.383/.f#photos) . We have done this for multiple reasons:
This enclosure has enough heat conductivity/disappation and air ventilation to run without a fan, and still keep temperatures reasonable.
Fans in our previous enclosure, although sufficiently quiet early in their life, were getting louder over time as they became worn (this is a 24x7 product) .
FYI - My new version of Passport (2.5.043) now has a "power manager" setting that only powers up the internal drive when the 8300HD is turned on or for a scheduled recording. I'm speculating that that feature will extend to the external drive when SATA support is available.

FYI - My new version of Passport (2.5.043) now has a "power manager" setting that only powers up the internal drive when the 8300HD is turned on or for a scheduled recording. I'm speculating that that feature will extend to the external drive when SATA support is available.

I also have this option in version 2.5.048 and also have an external drive plugged into it. It doesn't appear to affect the external drive as it seems to stay on when I turn the box off. Maybe the feature isn't implemented yet for external drives.

A little bit of crossposting here. Recently TWC (Raleigh NC) gave us the following software update which enabled external SATA.

---------------------------------------------------
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.5.048
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.69.1sp
----------------------------------------------------

I purchased the Netegriti 250GB external drive and hooked it up tonight. Everything works like a charm except the TrickPlay features. By trickplay features, I mean rewinding or fast-forwarding live TV; pause works. Another user, scsiraid, ran into the same issue except he was using a Maxtor Quickview expander. So it doesn't look like the problem is drive vendor.

I just wanted to see if anyone has trickplay features working with Passport/SATA combination.

A little bit of crossposting here. Recently TWC (Raleigh NC) gave us the following software update which enabled external SATA.

---------------------------------------------------
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.5.048
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.69.1sp
----------------------------------------------------

I purchased the Netegriti 250GB external drive and hooked it up tonight. Everything works like a charm except the TrickPlay features. By trickplay features, I mean rewinding or fast-forwarding live TV; pause works. Another user, scsiraid, ran into the same issue except he was using a Maxtor Quickview expander. So it doesn't look like the problem is drive vendor.

I just wanted to see if anyone has trickplay features working with Passport/SATA combination.
A little bit of re-stating (and correcting) here. Nobody has been given a version of Passport that enables external SATA. Some cable systems have updated their SA8300HD STBs with a version of Passport that has a DIAG page with SATA info on it, however it in no way enables SATA (yet). If you spend time on this thread you will find that your observations re trick play is what everyone else who is hooking an external drive to a Passport box is experiencing. As SATA support is not official, I'd be surprised if any eSATA vendor will warranty their products for Passport.

I also have this option in version 2.5.048 and also have an external drive plugged into it. It doesn't appear to affect the external drive as it seems to stay on when I turn the box off. Maybe the feature isn't implemented yet for external drives.
That'd be my guess as external drives themselves are not yet "implemented", are they michaelscott? :)

Now that I consider this further, the 8300HD controls the power for the internal drive in a way that it will not for the external drive. And I'm not sure the 8300HD's SATA host controller is able to "power down" an external drive via signaling. We'll see.

A little bit of crossposting here. Recently TWC (Raleigh NC) gave us the following software update which enabled external SATA.

---------------------------------------------------
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.5.048
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.69.1sp
----------------------------------------------------

I purchased the Netegriti 250GB external drive and hooked it up tonight. Everything works like a charm except the TrickPlay features. By trickplay features, I mean rewinding or fast-forwarding live TV; pause works. Another user, scsiraid, ran into the same issue except he was using a Maxtor Quickview expander. So it doesn't look like the problem is drive vendor.

I just wanted to see if anyone has trickplay features working with Passport/SATA combination.

Same location, same problem, different external drive. I'm trying to decide whether or not that it's worth having more space and loosing the trick-play buffer or not. I'm also trying to even out the recordings on the internet and external drive to see if I can force the 8300 to switch over to the internal drive for the trick-play buffer. Maybe that will help it work again. Of couse, it will be a constant balancing act to get the buffer to work that way. Hopefully the next version we recieve will get SATA working %100.

A little bit of re-stating (and correcting) here. Nobody has been given a version of Passport that enables external SATA. Some cable systems have updated their SA8300HD STBs with a version of Passport that has a DIAG page with SATA info on it, however it in no way enables SATA (yet). If you spend time on this thread you will find that your observations re trick play is what everyone else who is hooking an external drive to a Passport box is experiencing. As SATA support is not official, I'd be surprised if any eSATA vendor will warranty their products for Passport.

Hi Pepar,

Actually SATA is enabled with the Passport version I mentioned. Its not just on the diag page. I have successfully stored recorded and played programming from it. The only issue I have with using the external SATA is the trickplay buffers.

Same location, same problem, different external drive. I'm trying to decide whether or not that it's worth having more space and loosing the trick-play buffer or not. I'm also trying to even out the recordings on the internet and external drive to see if I can force the 8300 to switch over to the internal drive for the trick-play buffer. Maybe that will help it work again. Of couse, it will be a constant balancing act to get the buffer to work that way. Hopefully the next version we recieve will get SATA working %100.
The loss of the trick play buffers may be the proverbial tip of the iceberg. Other, as of now, unnoticed aberrations may be there as well. There is just no telling what hooking an unexpected peripheral will do to an otherwise perfectly functioning box. This is what michaelscott found/finds so outrageous - that there'd be "incomplete code" in there and the potential for it to hose the STB.

Hi Pepar,

Actually SATA is enabled with the Passport version I mentioned. Its not just on the diag page. I have successfully stored recorded and played programming from it. The only issue I have with using the external SATA is the trickplay buffers.
Hi merlintl,

OK, I've passed this way before . . there is a difference between attaching an external drive to the SATA port and recording content and Passport supporting an external drive with full functionality. See my above post re other possible problems occuring that have not yet been noticed.

Hi merlintl,

OK, I've passed this way before . . there is a difference between attaching an external drive to the SATA port and recording content and Passport supporting an external drive with full functionality. See my above post re other possible problems occuring that have not yet been noticed.


Hi Pepar,

Thanks for the heads up. So far the only issue I've found is the trickplay support. If I see any other issues with external SATA in coming days/weeks, i'll kick out reply on the thread.....

Even though trickplay isn't there, I'll make good use of the external SATA a week from now when I go overseas on business....

Thanks,

merlintl

Hi Pepar,

Thanks for the heads up. So far the only issue I've found is the trickplay support. If I see any other issues with external SATA in coming days/weeks, i'll kick out reply on the thread.....

Even though trickplay isn't there, I'll make good use of the external SATA a week from now when I go overseas on business....

Thanks,

merlintl
I know I sound like the Grinch Who Stole SATA, but I'm concerned that Passport users are getting w-a-y ahead of reality on this. But I guess if anyone's going to be blazing a trail it'll be us AVS'ers! Just so everyone bears in mind that Passport Echo SATA support is not yet officially in place. :)

Just so everyone bears in mind that Passport Echo SATA support is not yet officially in place. :)

Actually, with the exception of some cable systems in Canada, I suspect that SARA SATA support has never been officially in place! SA refers people to their local provider, and I don't recall it being reported that any cable system acknowledged that it was in place either. We all are operating a little bit on the outskirts here - it's just that the Passport people are a little further out.

Actually, with the exception of some cable systems in Canada, I suspect that SARA SATA support has never been officially in place! SA refers people to their local provider, and I don't recall it being reported that any cable system acknowledged that it was in place either. We all are operating a little bit on the outskirts here - it's just that the Passport people are a little further out.
Well, I've been accused of being far out before, but you have an excellent point! SATA support seems to be like the crazy aunt they keep up in the attic. Or, perhaps, double-secret probation. :)

Plausible denial, anyone?

Well, I've been accused of being far out before, but you have an excellent point! SATA support seems to be like the crazy aunt they keep up in the attic. Or, perhaps, double-secret probation. :)

Plausible denial, anyone?

It's also the big excuse. Got a problem with your cable? Got an external hard drive? Well, that just might be the problem and gee sorry, we don't support the SATA.

It's also the big excuse. Got a problem with your cable? Got an external hard drive? Well, that just might be the problem and gee sorry, we don't support the SATA.
shhhhhh!

Actually, with the exception of some cable systems in Canada, I suspect that SARA SATA support has never been officially in place! SA refers people to their local provider, and I don't recall it being reported that any cable system acknowledged that it was in place either. We all are operating a little bit on the outskirts here - it's just that the Passport people are a little further out.

When I first ordered my 8300HD from Cablevision, I asked the rep on the phone if it supported an external hard drive and he said yes.

scsiraid, merlintl, KzY, and any other Passport user may want to read up about galen's experiences (search his name on this and the Passport thread).
It starts here: #2455 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6844455&&#post6844455) and #1132 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6844859&&#post6844859) , then takes a turn for the good (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6861883&&#post6861883) - but less success later (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6939489&&#post6939489).


v/r,
C-F

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlintl
A little bit of crossposting here. Recently TWC (Raleigh NC) gave us the following software update which enabled external SATA.

---------------------------------------------------
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.5.048
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.69.1sp
----------------------------------------------------

I purchased the Netegriti 250GB external drive and hooked it up tonight. Everything works like a charm except the TrickPlay features. By trickplay features, I mean rewinding or fast-forwarding live TV; pause works. Another user, scsiraid, ran into the same issue except he was using a Maxtor Quickview expander. So it doesn't look like the problem is drive vendor.

I just wanted to see if anyone has trickplay features working with Passport/SATA combination.

Same location, same problem, different external drive. I'm trying to decide whether or not that it's worth having more space and loosing the trick-play buffer or not. I'm also trying to even out the recordings on the internet and external drive to see if I can force the 8300 to switch over to the internal drive for the trick-play buffer. Maybe that will help it work again. Of couse, it will be a constant balancing act to get the buffer to work that way. Hopefully the next version we recieve will get SATA working %100.

Does FFD & RWD work as it should when playing back a pre-recorded program?

I hooked my Maxter Quickview back up. I simply couldn't live with the limited disk space.

If I get a dropped show or a partial I'll pick it up at that place we are not suppose to talk about so I won't mention it. ;)

I have both an 8300SD and an 8300HD DVR. I installed an external Seagate 300GB SATA drive with zero problems on the 8300SD several months ago. Last night I assembled an external drive using a Maxtor 300GB SATA drive--not the Quickview, though. It is a DiamondMax with a 16MB buffer, 7200 RPM. The hard drive case is an identical Apricorn, and the SATA cable is the same as the one I used on my first external drive.

I used the same installation and boot procedure that I did on the first one. The external hard drive was detected by the DVR, but I got the message that it was not properly connected. After powering down and removing the power cables, I disconnected all other cables and reseated them. The second time I powered up, I got the message that the drive had been detected and was asked if I wanted to format it by pressing "A" on the remote--which I did. The screen immediately went to New Channel, and I never received any confirmation that the format was successful, and the "Drive Space Used" remained at 86%. I tried this three times before giving up.

I don't recall having to jumper the Seagate at all--it just worked. However, the Maxtor arrived unjumpered, but with a notation in the manual as follows:

Important Note: Motherboards and host controllers equiped with VIA, VT8237, VT8237R, VT6420, VT6421L, SIS760, and SIS964 do not support SATA 300 transfer speeds. For Maxtor SATA 300 drives to function properly on the VIA chipsets, the Force 150 jumper must be used. For more information about your system chipset, please refer to the motherboard or host controller manufacturer's documentation or web site.
I am assuming that "SATA 300" is referring to the capacity rather than the actual transfer speed, since the specs state an external transfer speed of 150 MB/sec. Can anyone confirm this? Also, I have no idea what chipset is used in the 8300HD, but if it is a VIA chipset, do you think this possibly could be my problem?

I have forgotten the key-combination to get into the Diagnostic pages, so I can't give you the exact SARA firmware version, but the latest one we got here in Austin was 1.87.27.1. We have not yet received the 1.88.11.2 version that will fix many of the annoying problems that still plague us. However, since my first external drive addition was successful, the SARA firmware should not be an issue.

Any suggestions will be most appreciated!

Scarlett

I am assuming that "SATA 300" is referring to the capacity rather than the actual transfer speed, since the specs state an external transfer speed of 150 MB/sec. Can anyone confirm this? Also, I have no idea what chipset is used in the 8300HD, but if it is a VIA chipset, do you think this possibly could be my problem?
Hi Scarlett,

SATA 300 does indeed refer to the data transfer rate, so the spec you cite conflicts with that. Puzzling.

Hi, Pepar ~ Thanks for the quick reply!

I just read a review on Amazon from someone else who purchased this HD. The box states Serial ATA/150 and External Transfer Rate of 150 MB/sec. However, the reviewer stated that to his surprise, on opening the package, he discovered that this is a SATA II drive with 3.0 GB transfer rate! I didn't observe that on my drive, but then I wasn't looking for it!

Do you think it would do any good to remove the drive from the external case and jumper it? I bought the drive at Fry's, and I have no idea how picky they will be about an open-box return, but if my drive is actually a SATA II in a SATA I box, I would think it should be eligible for a return to the Vendor! I suppose I could try jumpering it to see if that makes a difference before I try to return it.

My husband is the one who actually made the purchase, and he didn't know what questions to ask--and I probably wouldn't have, either, to be fair, since the box clearly states 150 MB/sec transfer rate. But I probably would have balked at the one-year warranty. You can't beat Seagate's warranties! Also, I read in the reviews that this drive runs hot, even in an idle state, and that does not bode well for a drive to be used with the 8300HD. Maybe I would be better off just trying to return it and looking for another Seagate like the one I used in my other external case.

Thoughts?

Scarlett

Maybe I would be better off just trying to return it and looking for another Seagate like the one I used in my other external case.

Thoughts?Is your 300GB Seagate the ST3300831AS (http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,631,00.html)? For what it's worth, I picked up that drive from Fry's a couple months ago for $99 after rebate, and have been using it with my 8300HD (SARA 1.87.16.1) with zero trouble. YMMV...

Hi, Pepar ~ Thanks for the quick reply!

I just read a review on Amazon from someone else who purchased this HD. The box states Serial ATA/150 and External Transfer Rate of 150 MB/sec. However, the reviewer stated that to his surprise, on opening the package, he discovered that this is a SATA II drive with 3.0 GB transfer rate! I didn't observe that on my drive, but then I wasn't looking for it!

Do you think it would do any good to remove the drive from the external case and jumper it? I bought the drive at Fry's, and I have no idea how picky they will be about an open-box return, but if my drive is actually a SATA II in a SATA I box, I would think it should be eligible for a return to the Vendor! I suppose I could try jumpering it to see if that makes a difference before I try to return it.

My husband is the one who actually made the purchase, and he didn't know what questions to ask--and I probably wouldn't have, either, to be fair, since the box clearly states 150 MB/sec transfer rate. But I probably would have balked at the one-year warranty. You can't beat Seagate's warranties! Also, I read in the reviews that this drive runs hot, even in an idle state, and that does not bode well for a drive to be used with the 8300HD. Maybe I would be better off just trying to return it and looking for another Seagate like the one I used in my other external case.

Thoughts?
A few. SATA 300 (or II) should be backwardly compatible with SATA 150.

Is your 300GB Seagate the ST3300831AS (http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,631,00.html)? For what it's worth, I picked up that drive from Fry's a couple months ago for $99 after rebate, and have been using it with my 8300HD (SARA 1.87.16.1) with zero trouble. YMMV...
No, my Maxtor is a DiamondMax 10, Model 6V300F0, 300GB SATA 3.0Gb HDD . This is according to the label attached to the HD which I have now removed from the external enclosure. There was no rebate involved--just $99 and you are out the door! Since I now know it is a 3.0Gb transfer rate, would you recommend trying to jumper it, or should I just try to return it and find a Seagate? I do have a WD 120GB SATA drive on hand that I could try in the meantime.

Pepar, I agree that it should be backward compatible; however, in view of Maxtor's "Important Note" regarding the VIA chipsets' inability to handle the SATA 300 transfer rate, should I assume that the 8300HD's chipset is having the same problem? I still don't know what chipset is used in the 8300HD--haven't done any research on that yet. I really think I would be more comfortable with Seagate's 5-yr. warranty, but it will depend on what Fry's has to say. I'm not too excited about the 120GB WD, but 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing! :)

What would you do?

Scarlett

Is your 300GB Seagate the ST3300831AS (http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,631,00.html)? For what it's worth, I picked up that drive from Fry's a couple months ago for $99 after rebate, and have been using it with my 8300HD (SARA 1.87.16.1) with zero trouble. YMMV...
I'm an idiot! I didn't read the "Seagate" part of your post. I thought you were asking about my Maxtor, and I wondered why your Maxtor model started with "ST"! Just chalk it up to my tunnel vision.

I honestly can't remember the model number of my 300GB Seagate, and I didn't write it down--again, a stupid mistake. However, I think I got it at Fry's, and it did involve a rebate, so we may have bought the same drive. I had absolutely no problems at all getting it detected and formatted by the 8300, and it has been running non-stop from Day One with zero trouble. I do know that I didn't get a full 300GB of recording space with it, but I can't remember precisely how much I lost--and that was a known factor going into it. I can check my earlier posts in this thread to confirm the total lost. Do you recall how much additional space in GB you got after you installed your Seagate?

Finally, has anyone heard of any recent "deals" on Seagate SATA drives?

Thanks for the help!

Scarlett

edit: nevermind!

Do you recall how much additional space in GB you got after you installed your Seagate?According to diag p. 34, my 300GB Seagate is partitioned like so:
ITFS: 1GB
AVFS: 259GB
RESERVED: 1GB

BTW, the key combo to see the 8300 diag pages is: On STB front-panel, hold SELECT button until the "envelope" icon flashes on the front display, then press "INFO". Use vol +/- buttons to flip pages. You can find your Seagate model number on your 8300SD using the diag pages--just flip through until you find the page titled, "HDD Info", then look for the Model # of DeviceID 2. On my 8300HD, that's page 32 of 34, but it might be a different page on an SD box (or with a different software version).

Jim

Pepar, I agree that it should be backward compatible; however, in view of Maxtor's "Important Note" regarding the VIA chipsets' inability to handle the SATA 300 transfer rate, should I assume that the 8300HD's chipset is having the same problem? I still don't know what chipset is used in the 8300HD--haven't done any research on that yet. I really think I would be more comfortable with Seagate's 5-yr. warranty, but it will depend on what Fry's has to say. I'm not too excited about the 120GB WD, but 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing! :)
An SATA 300 drive will communicate with an SATA 150 host controler at 150. You could try the jumper thing to force 150. The warranty issue is a valid concern, but only you can decide to re-purpose (or take a hit on) your existing drive and get an SATA 150 drive.

I seriously doubt that Via has any chips in the 8300HD.

According to diag p. 34, my 300GB Seagate is partitioned like so:
ITFS: 1GB
AVFS: 259GB
RESERVED: 1GB

Jim
Hi, Jim, and thanks so much for the info for accessing the diagnostics! We do indeed have the same Seagate SATA HD, although my information shows 271GB rather than 259GB. We have the same SARA firmware 1.87.27.1 also. My internal hard drive in the 8300SD is an 80GB Maxtor 4R080L0.

My 8300HD internal hard drive is a Western Digital WD1600BB-56GUC0. It has the same SARA firmware 1.87.27.1 as the SD model. This is the one I am trying to expand with the external SATA drive. Currently, I have only 20GB free space on this one. Since the Maxtor SATA300 would not format, I am wondering if I might have better luck with the 120GB WD SATA drive I have available. In fact, I have removed the Maxtor from the enclosure and replaced it with the WD. I realize that 120GB isn't a lot of additional space; however, I am still recording everything in SD--just got the HD model because of the larger internal drive. When the summer re-runs start, I plan to replace my 8300SD with the 8300HD for the same reason. At some point, I would like to have at least 300GB in each of the external drives.

I have re-packaged the Maxtor, and I will be trying to return it to Fry's shortly--just bought it two days ago, and there is nothing on the outside of the box that indicates a transfer rate other than 150MB/sec, so I am hoping that is a legitimate cause for a return and that I won't have a problem with them. Just don't know what their policy is--I've never returned a hard drive. The fact that it won't format should be reason enough I would think.

Just have to button up the external case, and then I will see if the 8300HD will format the WD drive. Shouldn't take more than a half hour total, and I will report back with the results. If I have no better luck with the WD, should I assume that there is a problem with the 8300HD itself? In contrast to the 8300SD, it has always had a noisy hard drive, and that makes me a little nervous!

Thanks again!

Scarlett

Scarlett,

Did you try connecting the Maxtor to a PC to confirm that it does indeed function properly in that capacity? It's possible that you received a DOA drive and could possibly exchange it for another at Fry's.

On another note, I've been doing some reading regarding Maxtor drives and apparently they come from the factory with Write Verify enabled. Supposedly it is only enabled for the first 10 power-cycles and disables automatically after that point but that could be an issue for those that connect their drives to the 8300 and leave them powered on for a long period of time...could take a while before you power-cycle the drive 10 times. There is a utility to disable Write Verification manually. You can also use another utility to set the drive's acoustic management which could increase or decrease performance as well. I'm not sure yet whether or not these utilities are valid for the newest Maxtor drives but I plan to give them a try in a few days when I receive my drive.

Here's a link to an AVS thread with additional info and links to the Maxtor utils. If anyone is feeling brave, you might give this a try. I believe you may need to connect the drive to your PC's internal SATA controller for these to work properly (if at all).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=532576

Drivie

Scarlett,

Did you try connecting the Maxtor to a PC to confirm that it does indeed function properly in that capacity? It's possible that you received a DOA drive and could possibly exchange it for another at Fry's.



No, I haven't gone that far yet. I did try the WD drive, with the same results. The external drive was detected, I was asked if I wanted to format it, and I responded "Yes" by pressing the "A" button. The only difference this time was that the screen froze for several minutes. I thought perhaps the formatting was occurring and just waited. Finally, both audio and video were restored, but there was no confirmation that the external hard drive had been formatted successfully. I checked Recording Space Used, and it still reflects 86%. I rebooted twice with the same results.

I can't remember exactly what happened and what messages I received when I achieved the successful format of my Seagate drive several months ago. Can someone who has done this and can remember the process let me know what I should be seeing? I have followed the Scientific Atlanta instructions precisely, as I did before, and I am at a loss to understand what is different this time.

If anyone has successfully formatted an external SATA drive by using a process other than that prescribed by Scientific Atlanta, I would appreciate hearing the exact steps that were taken. I am willing to try anything at this point!

Many thanks!

Scarlett

Well, just an update. In a previous post I had moaned and complained about the trick-play buffer not working when having a external SATA drive connected using Passport v.2.5.048. After going through enough programs on my internal HD, it seems the internal and external drives have finally balanced out their free space. The trick-play buffer appears to have switched back over to the internal HD because I no longer see the external drive constantly flashing like before. My point is now the trick-play buffer works once again. I think this had been confirmed by someone else, but I just wanted to post it as well. At least I know it's the OS version on the box and not the HD that's the problem.

I wonder what days I will and won't have the trick-play buffer? It's like playing the lottery!

I can't remember exactly what happened and what messages I received when I achieved the successful format of my Seagate drive several months ago. Can someone who has done this and can remember the process let me know what I should be seeing?See attachments in this reply and the next reply for the relevant portion of the 8300HD user's guide. You can't read the graphics in the first picture, so I have closeups in the other four files (upper left, upper right, lower left, and lower right.)

See attachments in this reply and the next reply for the relevant portion of the 8300HD user's guide. You can't read the graphics in the first picture, so I have closeups in the other four files (upper left, upper right, lower left, and lower right.)The last two files are attached. What the manual doesn't show is the screen confirming a successful format. As I recall, it just said something similar to, "Your external drive is now ready for use." or something equally obvious. I checked the "Recording Space Used" graph before and after formatting, and could confirm from the dramatic change that the drive had been successfully added.

Thanks for the screen shots, Jim. I have seen all of them on my downstairs DVR, but only the first one on my upstairs DVR--makes you think it is going to format if you press the "A" button, but then you never get the confirmation screen, and the "Recording Space Used" doesn't change. I can't imagine what the problem is this time--it was so effortless on the 8300SD. I think I am going to call Scientific Atlanta tomorrow to see if they have any idea what could be blocking the format. The only way I can be sure that it isn't the hard drive is to see if I can find another Seagate like yours and mine.

I did a little research on the write verify issue that Drivie mentioned and found several comments that the WD drives might also be affected. However, I also learned that it is only the Maxtor ATA/100's that ship with this feature, so I doubt that the SATA drives were shipped with write verify, although I can't state that with certainty. I guess the only way to make sure would be to reboot at least 11 times to see if that would make any difference. I am growing a little weary of the process at this point, especially since I don't have anything "new" to try.

I think I'll go check the Sunday ads to see if I can find a Seagate for sale. :)

If I learn anything interesting from SA tomorrow, I will report it to the group.

Thanks again for trying to help!

Scarlett

'Never' is a strong word..... SATA defines a 'port multiplier' which allows multiple drives to be attached to a single port.

And the Marvel port multiplier chip states that it is compatible with the marvel PATA to SATA bridge the 8300HD uses ;-)

Well, there's that pesky matter about how the 8300 doesn't actually belong to you, but rather to the cable company, and they generally frown on people taking apart their boxes and mucking around with the innards. There are probably tamper-resistant stickers and such on your box so the cableco'd have a good idea whether you took it apart (at least, there are on mine).

I'd sure hate to get a bill from my cableco for what they think the 8300HD is worth if it conked out after I had broken the tamper-resistant seals...
I own my own 8300HD as we do have that option in Canada (has to be some benefit to not having Firewire as an option from our provider :). There are no tamper resistent seals on the case, just some T-10 torx tamper-proof screws which can be removed with a bit available from any automotive supply house. The HDD does, however, have a tamper seal between it and a cross-brace on the frame of the case.

And the Marvel port multiplier chip states that it is compatible with the marvel PATA to SATA bridge the 8300HD uses ;-)
Won't make a bit off difference unless the 8300HD's software/firmware supports multiple volumes, which is what drives on a port multiplier "look" like - one wire, but several drives (volumes).

It seems Maxtor drives may be shipped from the factory with Write Verify and Acoustic Management features enabled. Both could adversely affect performance of the drive.

Supposedly Write Verify is automatically turned off after 10 power cycles, but I wonder if it is really just a power cycle that resets it, or if it needs some kind of initialization from the host. If it is the latter, the SA8300HD may not send what the Maxtor is looking for, leaving Write Verify enabled forever.

Has anybody tried to see if their Maxtor drive has these features enabled, and if disabling them was any help on reducing or eliminating freezing and skipping?

It's wishful thinking, I'm sure, but at this point I'll try anything...

It seems Maxtor drives may be shipped from the factory with Write Verify and Acoustic Management features enabled. Both could adversely affect performance of the drive.

Supposedly Write Verify is automatically turned off after 10 power cycles, but I wonder if it is really just a power cycle that resets it, or if it needs some kind of initialization from the host. If it is the latter, the SA8300HD may not send what the Maxtor is looking for, leaving Write Verify enabled forever.

Has anybody tried to see if their Maxtor drive has these features enabled, and if disabling them was any help on reducing or eliminating freezing and skipping?

It's wishful thinking, I'm sure, but at this point I'll try anything...
Even when "supported" box owners are all alone to figure these things out. We clearly need some more insight into these drives, what they're doing and how to affect their parameters.

Won't make a bit off difference unless the 8300HD's software/firmware supports multiple volumes, which is what drives on a port multiplier "look" like - one wire, but several drives (volumes).
Looking at the SARA screens it seems to me that there were more than just two areas for Hard Disks - I'll have to look at home tonight.

At any rate it might be amusing just to hook up one of these PM cards to an 8300's eSATA port and connect a couple of SATA disks to see what happens. The PM adapters can be found for $85 on line so it's not that great of an investment.

Now if it works one could think about 5 500GB disks connected ...

Looking at the SARA screens it seems to me that there were more than just two areas for Hard Disks - I'll have to look at home tonight.

At any rate it might be amusing just to hook up one of these PM cards to an 8300's eSATA port and connect a couple of SATA disks to see what happens. The PM adapters can be found for $85 on line so it's not that great of an investment.

Now if it works one could think about 5 500GB disks connected ...
If the goal is amusement, then have at it! :)

You just might be the point man on this.