Just an update... My Maxtor Quickview 160 on Passport is 'working' great. Still no trickplay but other than that it has been recording and playing back fine. No jerks, No drops, Just trickplay-less joy.

Just an update... My Maxtor Quickview 160 on Passport is 'working' great. Still no trickplay but other than that it has been recording and playing back fine. No jerks, No drops, Just trickplay-less joy.

My trick-play buffer didn't work when I first connected the drive. When data on both drives evened out, it switched back to the internal drive and the trick-play worked. Now it seems I have more on the internal drive again, so the trick-play quit working again. It seems like I get about 3 or 4 days with it working, and the same without it.

I would like to thank all of you who have provided so much help. I finally figured out how to overcome all the difficulties with my SA HD8300 DVD-R and the miserable SARA software provided by TW– I’m going to return the son-of-a-bitch to Time Warner. I’ve ordered DirectTV’s HD TIVO, and except for the $499 bucks for a permanent lease, will actually be a few dollars cheaper than I am now paying Time Warner. The interest I’m losing on this investment only amounts to about $2.30 per month.

This leaves me with a 300 gig Seagate SATA hard drive plus the enclosure and the special cable. Is anybody interested in acquiring same from me?

Again, my thanks for all the help.

Tom

Just an update... My Maxtor Quickview 160 on Passport is 'working' great. Still no trickplay but other than that it has been recording and playing back fine. No jerks, No drops, Just trickplay-less joy.
It'll be interesting to see if your recorded programming is "still there" when real SATA support is rolled out . . .

can anyone recommend an enclosure with a good cooling fan? i got my 300gb maxtor hooked up to my 8300HD, but the enclosure i got has a really crappy fan and the drive is running so hot that i just took the cover off for now.

i'd post a few examples of ones i'm looking at, but AVS forum doesnt allow you to post URLs until your 5th post =p

i'd post a few examples of ones i'm looking at, but AVS forum doesnt allow you to post URLs until your 5th post =p
If you reply to my post, you'll be at 5. :D

looks like the E-POWER EP-301SA (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817155903) will do the trick. it has an internal and external SATA 1 connection, and i can just buy a SATA 1 --> SATA II (aka: eSATA) cable. i just hope the fan is robust enough to keep this baby cool.

and the AMS Venus DS3 DS-2316SU2SBK (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817145660) seems to be the exact same, but with a SATA --> USB translator, and an external SATA 1 connector as well. might be worth the extra few bucks if someone ever decrypts the mpeg2 streams on the 8300HD ;)

looks like the E-POWER EP-301SA (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817155903) will do the trick. it has an internal and external SATA 1 connection, and i can just buy a SATA 1 --> SATA II (aka: eSATA) cable. i just hope the fan is robust enough to keep this baby cool.
Here's more info and pics on that enclosure (http://www.peparsplace.com/html/21.html).

skijumpz,

Some people think that this drive is "butt ugly", but it has a huge, slow moving fan that is quiet and should last forever. I guess that one could always try to hide the unit - there is no need to have access to it.

BTW, I junked my Addonics enclosure 6 months ago and purchased this enclosure. While I had no problem with the Addonics, I felt that I would ultimately be better off with an enclosure with superior cooling.

skijumpz,

Some people think that this drive is "butt ugly",
Butt ugly is in the eye of the beholder and certainly would mean something entirely different with Heidi Klum than with Keith Richards. ;) :D

meh.... ugly smugly, as long as it keeps cool right? :)

It'll be interesting to see if your recorded programming is "still there" when real SATA support is rolled out . . .

Yup.... That will be an interesting situation.... It could go either way. Depends on what is currently 'wrong' or 'missing' in todays implementation. If I were to bet... I would say the programming would remain since it seems that the issue is where/which drive the SW believes the trickplay buffers are located. It may be as simple as that. Or it may not...... :)

does the E-Power have a removable LED? they are so annoying!

does the E-Power have a removable LED? they are so annoying!

I haven't tried (it's not too bright) - but I am pretty sure that it can be disconnected.

can anyone recommend an enclosure with a good cooling fan? i got my 300gb maxtor hooked up to my 8300HD, but the enclosure i got has a really crappy fan and the drive is running so hot that i just took the cover off for now.
I bought 3 of the Apricorn enclosures at buy.com and love them. They have large, quiet fans, and they have been running for 6 months with no heating problems:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10385125&loc=101&sp=1

They look great sitting beside the 8300--if you don't mind the bright orange light. You still need to order the SATA I to SATA II cable. I got mine at satacables.com for around $21 which included the shipping.

Scarlett

I would like to thank all of you who have provided so much help. I finally figured out how to overcome all the difficulties with my SA HD8300 DVD-R and the miserable SARA software provided by TW– I’m going to return the son-of-a-bitch to Time Warner. I’ve ordered DirectTV’s HD TIVO, and except for the $499 bucks for a permanent lease, will actually be a few dollars cheaper than I am now paying Time Warner. The interest I’m losing on this investment only amounts to about $2.30 per month.

This leaves me with a 300 gig Seagate SATA hard drive plus the enclosure and the special cable. Is anybody interested in acquiring same from me?

Again, my thanks for all the help.

Tom
Tom, I have sent you two PM's--neither of which has been read, and the first of which was in reply to your PM to me. Check your Inbox and please get back to me.

Thanks!

Scarlett

Well, since my internal and external drives have balanced out, now I get the trick play buffer working for a few hours, then when I go to erase a program, it stops, and visa versa. I guess I just have to accept that's just the way it is with this version of the software.

My question is: I have an enclosure for my internal drive. The problem is, the enclosure has no fan at all and is air tight. When I open it up, the drive doesn't really seem to be running that hot. I've seen people on here say that they use an enclosure with a good fan to avoid problems. Should I get one with a fan even though it doesn't seem like it's running that hot? I have it out of the enclosure for now...

Well, since my internal and external drives have balanced out, now I get the trick play buffer working for a few hours, then when I go to erase a program, it stops, and visa versa. I guess I just have to accept that's just the way it is with this version of the software.

My question is: I have an enclosure for my internal drive. The problem is, the enclosure has no fan at all and is air tight. When I open it up, the drive doesn't really seem to be running that hot. I've seen people on here say that they use an enclosure with a good fan to avoid problems. Should I get one with a fan even though it doesn't seem like it's running that hot? I have it out of the enclosure for now...

Actually, never mind. This enclosure is a tight aluminum box and seems to act like a heat sink dispersing all the heat. It seems to keep the drive rather cool inside.

Hi all... first post here. Quick question...

I want to get an external HD for my 8300HD, as I'm running out of space all the time. I tried reading most of this thread... there's a lot of info!

I want to know what the best hard drive and enclosure to get would be... and a decent place to get them online (newegg?)

I have Cablevision in NY, and the software version of my STB is SARA 1.88.15.3

Thanks for any advice you can give!

Well the "safest" choice would be a package from Discount Technology (they have posted here before and provide good support/warranty) or go with the Maxstore Quickview (check the ad at the top of the forum - weaKn)ees. Then there are the "do-it-yourself" approaches. The e-Power enclosure from NewEgg, a Maxstore 250GB or 300GB 7200RPM SATA, and the needed SATA to eSATA cable from Cruz, or a few others. The eSATA connector is not widely used, so it might be a problem buying one from a local store.

What do you think about this drive?
Ugh, can't post urls...

Maxtor DiamondMax 11 6H400F0 400GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

What do you think about this drive?
Ugh, can't post urls...

Maxtor DiamondMax 11 6H400F0 400GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Check the diagnostics page of your 8300HD and see if it reports that the internal hard drive is a Western Digital -- if it is, you may find it doesn't work well with a 400GB external (I found that out the hard way, now I'm in the process of exchanging the 400 for a 250).

Check the diagnostics page of your 8300HD and see if it reports that the internal hard drive is a Western Digital -- if it is, you may find it doesn't work well with a 400GB external (I found that out the hard way, now I'm in the process of exchanging the 400 for a 250).

This has been discussed many times before: One significant issue is the amount of available RAM in the system. The directory (or list) of all drive (both internal and external) contents are kept in RAM. The larger the total HD the more RAM needed. Malfunctions occur as you run out of RAM. While many people have no problems with 400GB & 500GB ext drives, others have problems over 300GB. This is due to many factors, many of them dependent on the local system, version of SARA, etc. It is likely that these are more significant than if the internal drive is WD or Maxtor. Note that the maximum Quickview size is 300GB (which will give you around 60 hrs of HD) - there is a reason! :o

This has been discussed many times before: One significant issue is the amount of available RAM in the system. The directory (or list) of all drive (both internal and external) contents are kept in RAM. The larger the total HD the more RAM needed. Malfunctions occur as you run out of RAM. While many people have no problems with 400GB & 500GB ext drives, others have problems over 300GB. This is due to many factors, many of them dependent on the local system, version of SARA, etc. It is likely that these are more significant than if the internal drive is WD or Maxtor. Note that the maximum Quickview size is 300GB (which will give you around 60 hrs of HD) - there is a reason! :o

Ah... ok, that makes sense. Wasn't sure what "Quickview" was... I assume that's the model of Maxtor drive in the 8300s.

60 hours of HD would most likely be more than enough I think. Right now, I'm just always keeping it around 90%... can't ever get a chunk of time to watch everything at once. So you'd recommend a 300gb drive just to be safe?

When I get home, I'll check the diagnostics and see how much RAM it has (as well as whether it's Maxtor or WD).

Right now, I'm just always keeping it around 90%... can't ever get a chunk of time to watch everything at once.Sorry, but this always makes me chuckle. Don't have enough time to watch what's recorded now, so let's get a bigger HDD, so we can record more. :)

Don't people buy bigger houses for essentially the same reason, so they don't have to clean out the closets or the attic? Don't knock it--it keeps the economy moving! :)

Ah... ok, that makes sense. Wasn't sure what "Quickview" was... I assume that's the model of Maxtor drive in the 8300s.
The correct and complete product name is "Quickview Expander." "Quickview" is something else, related, but not the same.

Don't people buy bigger houses for essentially the same reason, so they don't have to clean out the closets or the attic? Don't knock it--it keeps the economy moving! :)Shhhh, don't tell my MIL that or she'll be looking for a bigger house, there isn't a nook or cranny left in the one she's got. :)

One significant issue is the amount of available RAM in the system. The directory (or list) of all drive (both internal and external) contents are kept in RAM. The larger the total HD the more RAM needed. Malfunctions occur as you run out of RAM.

Kind of makes sense EXCEPT why would it be running out of RAM with only 3 or 4 programs (not more than 6 hours worth) saved? My gut instict is something else is involved.

Sorry, but this always makes me chuckle. Don't have enough time to watch what's recorded now, so let's get a bigger HDD, so we can record more. :)

We tend to watch a few hours on weekend evenings when we're not otherwise busy. Occasionally on a really slow weekend we may watch a bit more.

Some weeks there will be a lot of stuff on we want to watch, other weeks (especially) will have nothing. So some weeks we build up a lot of content, and others we catch up on the accumulated content.

So it becomes very easy to exceed 20 hours of space. So yes, a bigger HDD to record more makes perfect sense.

Kind of makes sense EXCEPT why would it be running out of RAM with only 3 or 4 programs (not more than 6 hours worth) saved? My gut instict is something else is involved.

Perhaps I am missing something here, I didn't recall anything about 3 or 4 programs. I was talking about the limitations of total HD capacity being limited by the amount of RAM in the system. We are talking here in terms of something like 60 or 70 programs.

Come on Steve, it was only a joke, everyone can use more HDD space. It's just that some folks write things that look kind of funny if read a certain way. :)

Kind of makes sense EXCEPT why would it be running out of RAM with only 3 or 4 programs (not more than 6 hours worth) saved? My gut instict is something else is involved.
A lot of stuff is stored in ram when adding a second drive.
The new partition and structure information, drive data (files) information, cab files used to index the drive space used and free, etc.
All this and more has to be available to the OS as it decides where to store and playback the recordings.

vegggas

Has anyone tried this with the 8300HDs Cox is leasing on the Gulfcoast FL area (Pensacola, Ft. Walton, Destin)???

Sorry if this has already been asked/answeared, skimmed through the posts a few times and didn't see anything about Cox Gulfcoast specifically...

Thanks


jwd

Tom, I have sent you two PM's--neither of which has been read, and the first of which was in reply to your PM to me. Check your Inbox and please get back to me.

Thanks!

Scarlett

Scarlett,

I keep replying but I get no response from you.

Tom

Scarlett,
I keep replying but I get no response from you.
TomAnd all this time I thought - he frankly didn't give a damn...

Scarlett,

I keep replying but I get no response from you.

Tom
Tom, I have only one reply from you, and I have now responded. Sent a PM in response. Sorry, but I have been away from my computer for the past week. But I'm back now! :)

Scarlett

And all this time I thought - he frankly didn't give a damn...

Good one... :D

Check the diagnostics page of your 8300HD and see if it reports that the internal hard drive is a Western Digital -- if it is, you may find it doesn't work well with a 400GB external (I found that out the hard way, now I'm in the process of exchanging the 400 for a 250).
Aha! This may be precisely what my current problem is! I do have a Western Digital internal hard drive in my 8300HD, and I have been unsuccessful in formatting (a) 300GB Maxtor; (b) 120GB WD; or (c) 300GB Seagate SATA drives! Were you successful with your 250GB drive?

I had no such problem with my 8300SD recorder. It has an 80GB Maxtor internal hard drive and formatted flawlessly. I have even done a forced firmware upgrade on the 8300HD, but I still am unable to get the external drive formatted. As I have said before, the external drive is detected, I am asked if I want to format it, I reply "yes" and then leave it alone for hours. When I check the Recording Space Used, I find that it remains at 86%.

Has anyone else with a Western Digital internal drive had problems getting an external drive formatted? Taking into consideration the RAM requirements, is there any reason to believe that the WD drive would require any more RAM for formatting than the Maxtor drives require, and/or that there is any less RAM available in a system that has a Western Digital internal drive?

I have one final thought: I am using the 8300HD configured in SD mode. Could this be causing a problem with formatting, i.e., should it be configured in HD mode in order to format the external drive, then returned to SD mode for recording?

If neither of the above makes sense, then I will have to call Scientific Atlanta to see what they might suggest. Time Warner is less than no help since this feature is not officially supported. I am beyond frustrated!

Thanks for any suggestions you can offer.

Scarlett

After saying yes to format and waiting you have to reboot the 8300 for the percentage to change.
I've done that on 4 different drives for the and each time after reboot the % changed.
Hasn't solved my playback issues though ;)

After saying yes to format and waiting you have to reboot the 8300 for the percentage to change."Not for everyone. When the format of my new drive was complete, I immediately went to the "space remaining" screen and saw a big jump in free space, no reboot required.

Same here - no reboot needed to change the % when I added my Seagate 300.

Not for everyone. When the format of my new drive was complete, I immediately went to the "space remaining" screen and saw a big jump in free space, no reboot required.
And, happily, not for me either! Houston, I have liftoff! Eureka! It finally worked!

The only thing I did differently this time was a forced firmware upgrade first. When the DVR rebooted, I got the message that the external device was not functioning properly, so I disconnected power from both boxes, reattached all the cables, powered up the external box, powered up the DVR, waited for the reboot, got the message asking if I wanted to format the external device, told it yes, waited about 5 minutes, got the message that the external device would work with the DVR, got another message telling me how to properly disconnect the external device, and when I checked the Recording Space Used, it had dropped from 96% to 26% with 99 recordings! How happy do you think I am? :D

A huge thanks to each and every one of you who has suffered through this with me and made so many great suggestions. In the end, it has all been worth it to me, and I am just so grateful that I didn't have to try calling Scientific Atlanta--I was told that I probably would get little or no help there. Not so with this group--you are the best!

Many, many thanks!

Scarlett

Congrats DEI and Scarlett,

I too believe that I have successfully added external storage to my 8300HD. I used a Vantec enclosure with a Maxtor 6L300S0 300GB drive. The first time I connected the drive to the STB, everything worked perfectly and I was recording to it in no time. I then decided to mess with the drive in my PC so I unplugged the STB and shutdown the ext. drive and placed it in my PC. I was bound and determined to disable Acoustic Management and Write Verification for the drive but lo and behold, I could not locate a utility to disable WV and Maxtor was no help so I powered on and off my PC 12 times and ran the PowerMax quick verification utility in between each shutdown as Maxtor claims that 10 power cycles will disable WV.

I was more successful with disabling AM. I found that the Hitachi Feature Tool will disable the AM on a Maxtor drive. I did confirm that the settings stuck when I was finished with the entire process. Getting the drive to be recognized by the 8300 again was quite an adventure and I thought for sure I was going to have to format it in the PC before reattaching it to the STB but it worked out after several attempts at unplugging and replugging in the power.

So far, so good. I have witnessed small audio skips but no different than without the external drive....granted, I only have about five HD programs on the external so I haven't really put it to the test just yet and don't want to jinx myself by saying that it's great and nothing can go wrong. One interesting fact is that my STB has a Western Digital internal drive...bummer eh? Hopefully that won't come back to bite me down the road. Anyway, there you have it.

Drivie

One interesting fact is that my STB has a Western Digital internal drive...bummer eh? Hopefully that won't come back to bite me down the road. Anyway, there you have it.

Drivie
Mine is a Western Digital, too, and I know what you mean. The only hard drive I have ever had crash was a Western Digital. Holding my breath and hoping that this one will last a long time. Good luck with yours!

Scarlett

Mine is a Western Digital, too, and I know what you mean. The only hard drive I have ever had crash was a Western Digital. Holding my breath and hoping that this one will last a long time. Good luck with yours!

Scarlett
On the other hand...
I have about a dozen Western Digital drives in my various computers and find them to be the most reliable brand. And they are good at replacing them if necessary--but avoid the 1 year warranty that they (and the whole industry) had for a while (now mostly back to 3 years). :)
I wouldn't touch a Maxtor to same my life--3 1/2 years ago I got two DOA Maxtors in a row and the 3rd one which wasn't DOA died 2 months after the 3 year warranty. :mad:

Perhaps I am missing something here, I didn't recall anything about 3 or 4 programs. I was talking about the limitations of total HD capacity being limited by the amount of RAM in the system. We are talking here in terms of something like 60 or 70 programs.

I experienced problems with just 3 or 4 programs saved. Not more than 6 hours worth. That's way too little to be explained by the above.

I have an new 8300HD that I hooked up mu external Discount Technology set up to and it's having a problem. First understand that this external drive worked perfectly with my original 8300 that I had to return because of optical out problems.

With the new set up the external is recording the program perfectly, but on playback every 10 seconds or so I have a sound drop out and pixelation of the image. If I hit back and go through the same part it will be clear so it's not on the original recording. It looks like the unit is having a hard time synching the date coming from the external drive.

My original HD had a Maxtor drive and I believe this has a WD.

Anyone else expierience this and is there a workaround?

Brian

I experienced problems with just 3 or 4 programs saved. Not more than 6 hours worth. That's way too little to be explained by the above.

Is it that you are having problems with 3 or 4 programs out of many recorded - or that you ONLY have 3 or 4 programs recorded? Some of your posts indicate that you have many recorded (stored up for weekend viewing).

By the way, I made my comment suggesting that it is RAM limitations (originally suggsted by veggas) rather than manufacturer of the internal drive (Western Digital) that is the principal reason for difficulties with 400GB ext drives.

Well, since my internal and external drives have balanced out, now I get the trick play buffer working for a few hours, then when I go to erase a program, it stops, and visa versa. I guess I just have to accept that's just the way it is with this version of the software


i must be a 8300HD n00b, what is "trick play buffer" ?

I experienced problems with just 3 or 4 programs saved. Not more than 6 hours worth. That's way too little to be explained by the above.Is it that you are having problems with 3 or 4 programs out of many recorded - or that you ONLY have 3 or 4 programs recorded? Some of your posts indicate that you have many recorded (stored up for weekend viewing). By the way, I made my comment suggesting that it is RAM limitations (originally suggsted by veggas) rather than manufacturer of the internal drive (Western Digital) that is the principal reason for difficulties with 400GB ext drives.srothkin, this is the way I interpreted the discussions about RAM.

You have a hotel with 160 rooms and old fashioned keys with the big 'mail-me-home' tags. Your front desk has to have spaces for 160 keys for the clerk to issue. While you could do it more compactly, it probably takes up a bunch of wall because you laid it all out so the clerk can rapidly see vacancies/usage. You probably left some room in case you built another wing with ~250 rooms. The rest was 'decorated'.

Now instead of building your 250 room wing, you buy-out the hotel across the street with 400 rooms. There may or may not be enough wall space behind the counter for you to put all these other keys. So your clerk does the best he can with the setup.

You really need to rearrange the room, build a key-box with moving panels, or come up with a new way to store and issue the keys.

What is really frustrating is that your best Hotelier pal, who lives in the next tourist trap over but has the same lobby layout, left a bunch of empty wall and had no problems when he bought his 500 room neighbor.

That is what they are saying. If all the 8300HD start off with the same memory, some cable companies use/waste more of it to store poker/VOD/etc. and make it hard to put the big HHD on it. To put the big storage on there, accommodations in the soft/firm/jello-ware may need to be done to ensure the CPU has enough address space for it all - which means the Cable companies must ask for software upgrades (unless you bribe the right programmer/PHB at SA).

i must be a 8300HD n00b, what is "trick play buffer" ?A name for the place the current channel is temporarily recorded to and stored, so you are able to pause/FF/REW and capture the program back to the beginning (or where you tuned to the channel). There are actually two, one for each [tuner]. These are on the HHD, although other buffers in general computing refer to temporary memory storage.

Mostly mis-used lately to describe what is really the loss of the FF/REW ability in PASSPORT boxes with eSATA drives that have a higher % of free space than the internal. The early report (galen on 1.8.112) held that the buffers are still present with pause and [record back to channel change] but FF/REW do not work. I do not remember any changes for the 2.x fellows in the Carolinas.

v/r,
C-F

A number of months ago I successfully installed a 250gb Sata 11 drive to my 8300. Recently, I've been running very low on recording space and noticed that the capacity is about 20-23 HD shows usually an hour each. I seem to remember more available time but I can't remember how much. What is the capaciy of a 8300 with an external 250gb drive attached?

How can I tell if my Sata drive is working properly? Is there a setup screen that shows the connected storage?

I rebooted both the 8300 and the Sata drive ( power off 8300, then Sata and reversed the order to reboot) but nothing changed.

I'd appreciate any help

thanks

I got a new 500GB eSATA Glyph external drive today using a DVR-specific, OEM hard drive that SMOKES the previous model - it's quieter, runs cooler, and NO SPUTTER on playback (currently 50% full)!

The drive and case are actually quieter that the 8300HD itself, so we've reached the point of diminishing returns on noise.

I'm going to fill the drive up to 90% and do some more tests, then post a report and some pics.

The 500GB OEM DVR drive in this model is not available retail, so the only way to get it for now is as part of the Glyph solution, which obviously is not as cheap as building it yourself. For me, the noise (actually, the lack thereof) and the video performance of this drive blow away everything else I've seen and tested to date, so I don't care.

YMMV.

-gil

As I mentioned earlier, I was using a 250GB Drive that I bought from discountechnology with my 8300HD for about 8 months. The 8300 had a Maxtor internal drive. A few weeks ago I had to get a new 8300hd (optical port went bad) and the new 8300hd has a Western Digital internal drive. I immediately started having problems with audio drop outs and pixelation every 10 seconds or so on playing back recordings made on the external drive.

After contacting Discont Technology today they say it's the WD internal drive and there is NOTHING that can be done other then getting a 8300HD with a Maxtor drive. Problem is this, my friend who works at Comcast today told me that he contacted SA and that they have a 3 year deal with WD to use their drives in all the units. So, my question is this, is there ANY external drive that has been known to work with an 8300HD that has a WD on the inside?

What about the MAxtor J08M300 that is made for the 8300. I would think with all the 8300's coming out with WD inside that this would be a problem? What about the new drives Discount is selling?

Let me know. Also, if anyone with a Maxtor inside 8300HD wants a good deal on my external 250gb drive and case let me know. Works great with the Maxtor.

brian

As I mentioned earlier, I was using a 250GB Drive that I bought from discountechnology with my 8300HD for about 8 months. The 8300 had a Maxtor internal drive. A few weeks ago I had to get a new 8300hd (optical port went bad) and the new 8300hd has a Western Digital internal drive. I immediately started having problems with audio drop outs and pixelation every 10 seconds or so on playing back recordings made on the external drive.



I would say you have another bad 8300HD. In fact, I'd say you'd see the exact same symptoms if you recorded to the 8300HD by itself, and tried using the Guide or PIP functions while recording, then watched the recorded content.

When I upgraded to Cox Digital DVR, my 1st 2 SA8000 SD DVRs had the same problem playing back recorded content from the internal drive. The 2nd box also had power/rebooting issues. When I called to say I was going to be stopping by to pick up a 3rd box, taking the afternoon off work to do so, I said if I had to return the 3rd box, it would arrive in pieces... The 3rd box so far, knock on wood, no issues what so ever. Go figure.

Hate to say it, but you may just have to keep returning these POS boxes till you find one that works.

This is an issue that will require very vocal feed back from customers in order to see results (results = working boxes in customer hands) SNAFU as far as Cox and Comcast goes I'd say.

jwd

Jwd my box is 100% fine without an external drive hooked up?

I would say you have another bad 8300HD. In fact, I'd say you'd see the exact same symptoms if you recorded to the 8300HD by itself, and tried using the Guide or PIP functions while recording, then watched the recorded content.

When I upgraded to Cox Digital DVR, my 1st 2 SA8000 SD DVRs had the same problem playing back recorded content from the internal drive. The 2nd box also had power/rebooting issues. When I called to say I was going to be stopping by to pick up a 3rd box, taking the afternoon off work to do so, I said if I had to return the 3rd box, it would arrive in pieces... The 3rd box so far, knock on wood, no issues what so ever. Go figure.

Hate to say it, but you may just have to keep returning these POS boxes till you find one that works.

This is an issue that will require very vocal feed back from customers in order to see results (results = working boxes in customer hands) SNAFU as far as Cox and Comcast goes I'd say.

jwd
Now what do you think that the cable companies do when we return out "defective" boxes? I know EXACTLY what they do, they put them on a truck the next day with a technician to go be installed in another subscriber's house. They probably say, well, the head office wouldn't send us defective hardware, so it must work, he just doesn't know what he's talking about, but we'll humor him and give him a new STB anyway.

This would not surprise me ONE BIT.

Now what do you think that the cable companies do when we return out "defective" boxes? I know EXACTLY what they do, they put them on a truck the next day with a technician to go be installed in another subscriber's house. They probably say, well, the head office wouldn't send us defective hardware, so it must work, he just doesn't know what he's talking about, but we'll humor him and give him a new STB anyway.

This would not surprise me ONE BIT.

Doesn't surprise me either, since the rep I was dealing with as much as admitted it.. (that returned boxes more often that not cycle right back into "the rack" for distribution to other customers)

I'm just saying that rather than giving up, if you keep returning the defective boxes, that sooner or later you will get one that works.. They are out there.. Shouldn't have to do that given how much $$$ we pay these turkeys, but that's SNAFU with Cox, Comcast, etc these days..

I got lucky with my rep. Very friendly, attractive rep ;-) She said if I had another bad 8000 DVR, she'd find and set aside a SD 8300 DVR for me, she admitted that the 8000 had been replaced in other markets due to problems. She genuinely wanted me to get this working. Rare find, dealing with these companies these days.


jwd

Jwd my box is 100% fine without an external drive hooked up?

grrrrr

:confused:

Sorry.

I believe you, but have you tortured it a bit? Recording 2 shows at the same time? Recording and using the guide or PIP functions at the same time? You don't see the same artifacts in recordings?

All but the last 8000 I went through had the same issues (or worse, wouldn't power up at all) w/o any ext drive..

I'd say it'd be worth a return anyway... Your last box worked, there should be others in the wild that will work properly..


Or am I being too optimistic?


jwd

One of my colleagues just reported to me that Brian Kushner is having the glitching problem with a replacement set top box. He has had an 8300HD with Maxtor hard drive working perfectly with our external hard drive for about 8 months. Recently his 8300HD was replaced with a new DVR with Western Digital internal drive. The replacement box appears not to be compatible with our drive. This is the same "glitching" issue I have mentioned in previous posts. We are more convinced than ever that this problem is caused by WDC internal drives. However, that is not to say that ALL WDC drives have this problem.

To be clear regarding our compatibility guarantee, we ONLY issue refunds for the first 30 days. On 4/4/6 I stated this clearly. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7433570&&#post7433570) After the first 30 days we warranty the functionality ONLY of our hard drives. It is not reasonable to expect us to issue refunds for changes in the customer's equipment (e.g. replacement DVRs) that result in compatibility problems after several months of usage.

I hope that you can appreciate our position. We are however, actively trying to find a viable solution to the WDC issues.

Sincerely,

Jesse.

One of my colleagues just reported to me that Brian Kushner is having the glitching problem with a replacement set top box. He has had an 8300HD with Maxtor hard drive working perfectly with our external hard drive for about 8 months. Recently his 8300HD was replaced with a new DVR with Western Digital internal drive. The replacement box appears not to be compatible with our drive. This is the same "glitching" issue I have mentioned in previous posts. We are more convinced than ever that this problem is caused by WDC internal drives. However, that is not to say that ALL WDC drives have this problem.

Jesse,
Thanks for your input. Your position on this situation seems reasonable. I assume that you have had people who have replacement 8300s go through the reformat procedure. I wonder if people forget that the external drive data is "keyed" to the specific 8300.

Jesse,
Thanks for your input. Your position on this situation seems reasonable. I assume that you have had people who have replacement 8300s go through the reformat procedure. I wonder if people forget that the external drive data is "keyed" to the specific 8300.
Indeed, after swapping, the drive should be wiped somehow and the new box given a chance to format. Only after that is done is it fair to assess compatibility.

Is it that you are having problems with 3 or 4 programs out of many recorded - or that you ONLY have 3 or 4 programs recorded? Some of your posts indicate that you have many recorded (stored up for weekend viewing).

In this case it was only that many recorded. This was with a new 8300HD (we traded to see if it would fix the problem).

By the way, I made my comment suggesting that it is RAM limitations (originally suggsted by veggas) rather than manufacturer of the internal drive (Western Digital) that is the principal reason for difficulties with 400GB ext drives.

I doubt that the WD drive is itself the problem. More likely that the units with WD hard drive have differences in the firmware or circuitry vs. units with Maxtor or other hard drives.

I find it hard to believe I'd be hitting ram limitations with less than 6 hours of video saved.

In this case it was only that many recorded. This was with a new 8300HD (we traded to see if it would fix the problem).................
I find it hard to believe I'd be hitting ram limitations with less than 6 hours of video saved.
Now that I understand, I must agree. I also found Jesse's input on this matter valuable (he deals with a lot of these situations).

Indeed, after swapping, the drive should be wiped somehow and the new box given a chance to format. Only after that is done is it fair to assess compatibility.

When I hooked up the empty external drive to the new 8300 it gave me the format message and then the message saying the drive was ready for use. What else could have been done?

I originally tried formatting the internal drive as well. Nothing will let the external drive work. The standalone 8300hd works PERFECTLY.

One thing about Jesse's message, he seems to indicate that there is a problem with the external drives and Western Digital. I confirmed yesterday from a friend at Comcast that SA has a 3 year contract to use all WD drives in their dvr's. Seems kind of stupid if they know that NO external drive would work.

I'm curious if anyone here has an 8300HD with a Western Digital drive inside that has a no issue external drive working?

To be fair to Discount Technology as I've stated all along, the external drive they sent me worked FLAWLESSLY with my original 8300HD which contained a Maxtor drive inside. They have also answered all support questions in a timely manner and I have no beaf with them.

Finally, I agree with the previous poster about the WD drives. I too believe that the WD drives being used are not the problem but something changed in the software and or firmware as of late when they started using these drives that is the culprit. I know when I first contacted Comcast about a replacement box they had NONE and were expecting a new shipment from SA .

Brian

Tom's Hardware has an article about a new 2-HDD eSATA enclosure. I'm definately thinking about hooking it up to my 8300HD. I would probably put 2 Maxtor SATA HDDs into it.

The article also has a nice description of what eSATA is.

Tom's Hardware has an article about a new 2-HDD eSATA enclosure. I'm definately thinking about hooking it up to my 8300HD. I would probably put 2 Maxtor SATA HDDs into it.

The article also has a nice description of what eSATA is.

Do you have a link to that site? Thanks, Joe

Tom's Hardware has an article about a new 2-HDD eSATA enclosure. I'm definately thinking about hooking it up to my 8300HD. I would probably put 2 Maxtor SATA HDDs into it.

The article also has a nice description of what eSATA is.
It's been covered hera before a few times; you cannot connect two external drives to the 8300HD. Port replicator, you say? Won't work. Search this thread.

It's been covered hera before a few times; you cannot connect two external drives to the 8300HD. Port replicator, you say? Won't work. Search this thread.

Couldn't hurt to let him try :)

Is there a specific maxtor OEM bare drive that seems to work well with a maxtor drive equired 8300? I scanned the thread but couldn't find anything. Is there a ceiling on how big an external drive you can use?

Is there a specific maxtor OEM bare drive that seems to work well with a maxtor drive equired 8300? I scanned the thread but couldn't find anything. Is there a ceiling on how big an external drive you can use?

Boy, you really SCANNED. Check the first page or so of the post for the bare drive. There is a practical upper limit of about 300GB (the RAM imposed "soft" limit).

There is a practical upper limit of about 300GB (the RAM imposed "soft" limit).Dave, you've repeatedly mentioned your theory that the recording/playback problems folks have run into are related to how much file system data needs to be stored in RAM, but it's not clear to me what you're basing that on. I've never seen any indication of how much RAM is present in an 8300 and how much is consumed by the file system. I seen also never seen any authoritative details of how the file system is designed, though it seems clear to me from the diagnostics screens that the box is based on some flavor of *nix.

I'm not very *nix-savvy, but years ago I used Unix systems with 16-32MB RAM running with ~50-100GB drive arrays holding several thousand files with no problems. It's not intuitively obvious to me why a 400-600GB drive system with likely far fewer individual files and probably significantly more RAM would necessarily have a problem managing the file system. It's also not clear to me why it would be useful to retain details of the entire file system in RAM at all times, instead of just reading the necessary file allocation details during specific disk accesses, the way DOS/Windows and other file systems do.

Since there has been at least one report from a user who's had problems after recording only a handful of shows, it's that much more puzzling to me why the problem would be some sort of RAM limitation related to the file system.

Could you point me somewhere or suggest some Google searches where I could get smarter about these kind of RAM-intensive file systems, and/or explain again more clearly how you think large hard drives cause the available RAM to be consumed?

Thanks,
Jim

Nothing specific, but here are some thoughts posted by vegggas a few days ago:
A lot of stuff is stored in ram when adding a second drive.
The new partition and structure information, drive data (files) information, cab files used to index the drive space used and free, etc.
All this and more has to be available to the OS as it decides where to store and playback the recordings.
I suspect more specific info might be proprietary. :)

I'm curious if anyone here has an 8300HD with a Western Digital drive inside that has a no issue external drive working?
Yes, I have an internal Western Digital drive in my 8300HD, and I finally succeeded in formatting an external 300GB Seagate that is working with no issues! If you read my post on the previous page, it describes precisely what I did to make it work. I did not have to re-format the internal drive, but I did a forced firmware download for it. This reloaded the OS and the firmware without disturbing the recorded programs. A re-format would have destroyed my 99 recordings!

Finally, I agree with the previous poster about the WD drives. I too believe that the WD drives being used are not the problem but something changed in the software and or firmware as of late when they started using these drives that is the culprit.
Well, I tend to agree that the Western Digital drives are harder to use with the external SATA drives, probably because my 8300 with the Maxtor drive formatted the SATA drive immediately and has worked flawlessly for 8 months! However, I noticed that you have the latest SARA firmware, and I do know for a fact that there are some problems that came right along with the solutions the newest firmware contained. In Austin, we are still waiting for that firmware upgrade--we are limping along with the older 1.87.27.1 SARA firmware--because of the bugs that still need to be ironed out. Therefore, the newer firmware may be an issue for you, but I still believe that most of my problems were caused by the Western Digital internal drive! It took several tries before I managed to get the external drive formatted, and it was only after the forced firmware and OS download that I got it to work. The recordings on the external drive are just as good as the ones on the internal drive--if not better! I have no trick-play buffer problems, either. Of course, my firmware is SARA and not Passport. :)

I highly recommend the 300GB Seagate SATA drives, not only because I have been successful in formatting two of them for use with my DVRs, but also because of the excellent 5-year warranty. Those external drives are running constantly in small enclosures, and there is wear and tear on them as well as a possible over-heating factor. If they die within the 5-year warranty, Seagate will replace them. If I were you, I wouldn't give up until I tried the Seagate ST3300631AS. In fact, if you read my earlier posts, you will see that I tried a 300GB Maxtor and a 120GB Western Digital before I bought another 300GB Seagate. Even the Western Digital SATA drive wouldn't work with the Western Digital internal drive! If you really think it is the firmware, you might ask your provider to roll you back to the earlier SARA firmware to see if that makes the difference. I know this is possible, because a few people here were able to test the same firmware you now have, and after testing, they were rolled back to the old firmware we are still using--again, because of the bugs that the newer firmware contains.

Best of luck to you!

Scarlett

Scarlett:

From reading back on your posts was your only problem formatting your external drive? I have no problem with that. My problem is with audio and video drop outs every 10 seconds on anything recorded on the external drive.

Brian

I did not have to re-format the internal drive, but I did a forced firmware download for it. This reloaded the OS and the firmware without disturbing the recorded programs. A re-format would have destroyed my 99 recordings!Scarlett

Can you tell me how to do this forced firmware download without losing my programs? I have searched and can't find information?

Brian

Dave, you've repeatedly mentioned your theory that the recording/playback problems folks have run into are related to how much file system data needs to be stored in RAM, but it's not clear to me what you're basing that on. Could you point me somewhere or suggest some Google searches where I could get smarter about these kind of RAM-intensive file systems, and/or explain again more clearly how you think large hard drives cause the available RAM to be consumed?

Thanks,
Jim

This was discussed a fair amount back in December:
Post 1043 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6646022&highlight=RAM#post6646022)
I for one, put a great deal of faith in what veggas posts and what he says makes a great deal of sense.

Yes, I have said this several times and as one who has participated in this thread from the early days (a little over a year ago) I recognize that there is some valuable stuff burried in the middle of these page - particularly when someone is headed off to spend bucks for something that earlier postings indicate won't work.

So go back to those posts late last year and "bone up" on the subject - it's not JUST MY THEORY.

Well I picked up a Quickview drive this morning and it's the same problem. Video and audio drop outs every 10-15 seconds on external recordings.

Upon calling Maxtor they told me they are not supporting the drive and to call SA. They said they are going to stop making the drive.

SA told me that the days of the external drive are coming to an end that too many cable companies are complaining about people having external drive issues and are requesting the function be eliminated. SA's solution is bigger drive units in the future.

Well I picked up a Quickview drive this morning and it's the same problem. Video and audio drop outs every 10-15 seconds on external recordings.

Upon calling Maxtor they told me they are not supporting the drive and to call SA. They said they are going to stop making the drive.

SA told me that the days of the external drive are coming to an end that too many cable companies are complaining about people having external drive issues and are requesting the function be eliminated. SA's solution is bigger drive units in the future.
After all the problems and lack of financial incentive to the cable operators, I'm surprised it got this far. I hope that Aptiv continues and perhaps has a more stable implementation. But then I hope for $2.00 per gallon gas next year, too.

Can you tell me how to do this forced firmware download without losing my programs? I have searched and can't find information?

Brian
You power off the 8300 then disconnect the power cord. Wait at least 10 seconds, then push in the power button on the front of the unit and hold it in while you reconnect the power cord. Continue to hold in the power button until you see the word "boot" on the 8300, then release it. After the boot cycle is complete, you can turn the unit on with the remote. You should see the message about detecting an external drive and asking if you want to format it. Since you have been successful with the formatting already, you know just to press the "A" button and wait until you get the message that the external drive will work with the internal drive.

In your case, I don't know whether the forced firmware download will solve your problem. It could be that the newer SARA firmware is causing the problem. It also could be the brand of the hard drive you are formatting. I still swear by the Seagates. I think you should have bought a Seagate instead of a Maxtor Quickview, but that's just my opinion. Asking your provider to roll you back to the previous firmware should still be an option.

Your original question was whether anyone with a Western Digital internal drive had been able to get a "no-issues" external drive to work. I have, but I don't know whether my difficulty in getting them formatted would have been the only issue with the Maxtor and Western Digital drives if I finally had been able to get them formatted after the forced firmware download. In other words, I did not try formatting the Maxtor and Western Digital drives after I did the forced firmware download, so I don't know whether formatting them is now possible and, if so, whether I would also experience the same problems with them that you describe. I did try formatting the Seagate before I did the forced firmware download, and I was not successful--it was only after I did the forced firmware download that I was able to format the Seagate. Therefore, it is possible that the Maxtor and Western Digital hard drives can now be formatted, but it is also possible that I might encounter other "issues" such as yours even if formatting them now would be successful. I am not willing to disconnect my working Seagate in order to test those other drives, though.

All I know is that I managed to format the Seagate only after the firmware download and that I have no other issues with that drive! It certainly wouldn't hurt anything for you to try the forced firmware download, because you won't lose the recordings on your internal drive. If reloading the firmware and the OS doesn't solve your problem, you could try to reformat the internal drive and then format an external drive to work with it. That would be drastic, because you would lose all your recorded programs. If that doesn't work, then ask for the earlier firmware to be downloaded to your 8300. If that doesn't work, you probably should resign yourself to waiting until the larger capacity internal drives come out--that's what I would do, but I wouldn't be very happy about it.

I have a brand new 300GB Maxtor that I bought for the sole purpose of formatting as an external drive. It is now back in the box and on a shelf, just waiting to be installed in the PVR that I am building. That project now may be even more important to get completed if SA is going to build the new boxes without external SATA drive support. In the meantime, I have bought a brand new Seagate to use as an external drive with the 8300, and it does work flawlessly. I still would recommend that you try a Seagate.

Good luck!

Scarlett

Indeed, after swapping, the drive should be wiped somehow and the new box given a chance to format. Only after that is done is it fair to assess compatibility.
Are you saying that the external drive should be wiped, or the internal drive? If you are talking about the external drive, it seems to me that any external drive would be "wiped" by the formatting process and would then be re-keyed to the new box. If you are talking about the internal drive in the new box, wouldn't it have been reformatted by the cable company before it was given to you? I don't understand.

Scarlett

Are you saying that the external drive should be wiped, or the internal drive? If you are talking about the external drive, it seems to me that any external drive would be "wiped" by the formatting process and would then be re-keyed to the new box. If you are talking about the internal drive in the new box, wouldn't it have been reformatted by the cable company before it was given to you? I don't understand.

Scarlett
I think the original poster called me on this statement and I didn't reply. Perhaps I misread his post, but I thought he had a perfectly working 8300HD/ext drive and then had to swap his 8300HD. After the swap, he experienced the stuttereing with the previously working drive, a Discount Tech unit - I think. And that's when I made my comment about needing the new box to format the drive, which I didn't know if it happened automatically. If the new box didn't offer to format the drive, I thought wiping it with a PC would be necessary.

Everyone does realize that this is an UNSUPPORTED feature right? Not a single cable co has supported this feature due to too many varibles involved with external hardware. Cable co's are moving toward local node storage for ALL STB's not just DVR users, so that your 5 year old digibox can now use DVR functions, in ANY and ALL rooms (with digboxes) on your account. True Multi-room support wth existing hardware. This will be realized as OCAP headends are made available and the JAVA apps are downloaded into the STB's instead of various firmware revisions.

As noted recently by Scarlett and myself repeatedly over the (years?), a HARD reboot [holding the power] (scarlett calls it a forced firmware download) will resolve MANY issues with not only external drives, but memory issues too. You should WAIT until the reboot is completely finished before powering up. It takes about 5 - 10 min, depending on your application and IPG data. The best way to determine when the download is finished is to watch the front panel indicators. On the front panel, where the : (colon) seperates the hours and minutes, the bottom " . " dot will appear after all the os firmware has been loaded. A STB getting a download or initializing will be blank. Leave the STB alone until the dot appears.
Memory is being asked about again. For the record, here is the memory map for the 8300:
Flash = 512Kb
Application Dram = 64Mb
Media Dram = 32Mb [SD versons have 16Mb Media decoding Dram]
Mpeg Encoding Dram = 16Mb
Non-Volatile Memory = 8Kb
Your cab files for all your recordings are stored in the NVM, along with all your other settings and preferences. The use of favorites, among some other settings, eats up most of this memory. A hard reboot reads off the drive and/or account memory and refreshes the NVM, whereas pulling the power plug alone, does not. This is an extended basic explanation, and not absolute gospel - I didn't write it.
I think cable operators also have the ability to use some of the Media Dram for overlay technologies when the application dram is too full, thus reducing overall PQ. It appears somewhat common in NY TWC divisions and a possibly the Texas TWC divisions too.

vegggas

This was discussed a fair amount back in December:
Post 1043 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6646022&highlight=RAM#post6646022)
I for one, put a great deal of faith in what veggas posts and what he says makes a great deal of sense.

Yes, I have said this several times and as one who has participated in this thread from the early days (a little over a year ago) I recognize that there is some valuable stuff burried in the middle of these page - particularly when someone is headed off to spend bucks for something that earlier postings indicate won't work.

So go back to those posts late last year and "bone up" on the subject - it's not JUST MY THEORY.Many thanks for the pointer, Dave. I definitely did not scrub this thread as well as I thought I had, 'cause I missed that one.

Memory is being asked about again. For the record, here is the memory map for the 8300:

* Flash = 512Kb
* Application Dram = 64Mb
* Media Dram = 32Mb [SD versons have 16Mb Media decoding Dram]
* Mpeg Encoding Dram = 16Mb
* Non-Volatile Memory = 8Kb

Your cab files for all your recordings are stored in the NVM, along with all your other settings and preferences. The use of favorites, among some other settings, eats up most of this memory. A hard reboot reads off the drive and/or account memory and refreshes the NVM, whereas pulling the power plug alone, does not. This is an extended basic explanation, and not absolute gospel - I didn't write it.
I think cable operators also have the ability to use some of the Media Dram for overlay technologies when the application dram is too full, thus reducing overall PQ. It appears somewhat common in NY TWC divisions and a possibly the Texas TWC divisions too.Vegggas, thanks to you too for your recent memory map response (and all your prior postings). It's clear that you seem to have some level of insight not granted to the rest of us poor slobs. I would like to know more about the system design than what I can glean from your postings, as not everything makes "a great deal of sense" to me like it does for Dave.

For instance, what are these "cab" files? What specific data do they hold? (I'm only familiar with ".cab" as an archive format commonly used with Microsoft software distribution, but clearly that's not what you're talking about.) Do they hold file allocation data of some sort? If yes, how? MS's original 16-bit FAT could require up to 64KB to manage files on disks up to 4GB, and 32-bit FAT32 tables can require up to 16MB, so what's being stored that can fit into just 8KB, and why does it need to be in NVM instead of read from disk when needed? Also, what's the distinction between "Flash" and "NVM"? What is "Account memory"? Why would SARA-based STBs ever come close to exceeding Application Memory threshholds when Passport-based boxes seem to have far more sophisticated applications, and thus woud intuitively consume far more application memory? Etc., etc., etc...

It's not realistic/fair/polite to ask you to explain all that to me, though. I'll just have to keep watching and try to catch on and make sense of things as best I can.

Thanks again,
Jim

As noted recently by Scarlett and myself repeatedly over the (years?), a HARD reboot [holding the power] (scarlett calls it a forced firmware download) will resolve MANY issues with not only external drives, but memory issues too. You should WAIT until the reboot is completely finished before powering up. It takes about 5 - 10 min, depending on your application and IPG data. The best way to determine when the download is finished is to watch the front panel indicators. On the front panel, where the : (colon) seperates the hours and minutes, the bottom " . " dot will appear after all the os firmware has been loaded. A STB getting a download or initializing will be blank. Leave the STB alone until the dot appears.Good info. I added this to the Tips & Tricks post. I think I'll add the memory info too. Thanks, vegggas.

You can imagine when I called Comcast and asked about getting a firmware upgrade or downgrade. Long story short, it isn't going to happen and they also confirmed what SA and Maxtor told me, that they are waiting on a new version of the firmware that will disable the sata port . She also said that there is a slip of paper inserted in all the 8300HD's going out stating that the external port will not work.

Side note, I have a Dish 622 HD setup as well and they confirmed today that they are not ever going to support an external drive anytime soon either. They claim to be the HD Leader yet they give you a box with 200 SD hours and only 25 HD. Go figure.

You can imagine when I called Comcast and asked about getting a firmware upgrade or downgrade. Long story short, it isn't going to happen and they also confirmed what SA and Maxtor told me, that they are waiting on a new version of the firmware that will disable the sata port . She also said that there is a slip of paper inserted in all the 8300HD's going out stating that the external port will not work.
The whole eSATA thing seemed extremely half vast from the beginning. SA says "here's the port, but we don't support it" and then the cable companies say "here's the port, but we don't support it" leaving subscribers to flail around helplessly, hooking up drives willy nilly. And a mere mention of the SATA port in a new Passport rev has caused Raleigh TWC'ers to go bonzo attaching drives. Honestly, I understand the enthusiasm, but it's probably that enthusiasm and trying to attach drives too soon that is causing problems and making the cable industry rethink the whole issue. Pessimism rises. Maybe I will be an early adopter of hi-def optical . . .

The whole eSATA thing seemed extremely half vast from the beginning. SA says "here's the port, but we don't support it" and then the cable companies say "here's the port, but we don't support it" leaving subscribers to flail around helplessly, hooking up drives willy nilly. And a mere mention of the SATA port in a new Passport rev has caused Raleigh TWC'ers to go bonzo attaching drives. Honestly, I understand the enthusiasm, but it's probably that enthusiasm and trying to attach drives that is causing problems and making the cable industry rethink the whole issue. Pessimism rises. Maybe I will be an early adopter of hi-def optical . . .
I am a little perplexed to find out that Maxtor paid SA a decent size licensing fee to call the Quickview Drives compatible with the 8300HD and then when I call both Maxtor and SA after spending $300 they tell me drive won't work and to return it to place of purchase.

Brian

I am a little perplexed to find out that Maxtor paid SA a decent size licensing fee to call the Quickview Drives compatible with the 8300HD and then when I call both Maxtor and SA after spending $300 they tell me drive won't work and to return it to place of purchase.

Brian
I'd say "perplexed" is being polite, calm and rational.

jruhnke, First a word of caution - I don't always KNOW exactly what I'm talking about, although I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once or twice... ;) My posts shouldn't be always accepted as pure fact, but usually detailed with enough facts to come to a logical conclusion or plausible sound theories. I have been wrong before and will be wrong again... I also sometimes enjoy several frosty beverages while reading AVS and continue writing long posts, but I digress... :D
The memory map is published fact.
When I use the term cab files, I use it as my own personal descriptor, as a pointer file to larger data structures, or possibly specific start drive sector numbers and subsequent jumps for the non-contiguous data files. The design of the DVR is to have the drive powered down when not recording or playing back, thus relying on memory data for quick access to files and immediate response to commands. Memory is also used to speed up the trickplay functions with pointers for jumping ahead or back within a file. I mentioned account memory as a possible read from an account profile [Node or HE] during a hard reboot. An account read may be neccesary to set permissons for channels and services. A pure SARA STB would probably not run out of memory, but the inclusion of IPG, optional 3rd party applications and headend specific data could use more than standard memory configurations. I think Passport combines the stripped down OS and 3rd party apps written into one OS for better management.
All this is based on heavily speculated theory with some background facts and similar data structures with similar equipment and other commercial PPV and VOD systems that I work with.

vegggas

I am a little perplexed to find out that Maxtor paid SA a decent size licensing fee to call the Quickview Drives compatible with the 8300HD and then when I call both Maxtor and SA after spending $300 they tell me drive won't work and to return it to place of purchase.

Brian
Are you talking about the Maxtor Quickview Expander kit, or just a bare drive called a quickview from Maxtor? SA qualified the entire transport - SATA2 to SATA2 Cable, SATA2 enclosure with SATA2 electronic throughput and transport to SATA2 drive of the Quickview Expander Kit.

vegggas

Are you talking about the Maxtor Quickview Expander kit, or just a bare drive called a quickview from Maxtor? SA qualified the entire transport - SATA2 to SATA2 Cable, SATA2 enclosure with SATA2 electronic throughput and transport to SATA2 drive of the Quickview Expander Kit.

vegggas

I bought the whole kit Veggas from Buy.com

When I called Maxtor yesterday all the techs said they can't support the drive. Nothing to use to troubleshoot. They did say they would issue an RMA for an exchange but I know that won't make a diff.

Brian

I tried two of those kits from weaknees with my 8300, but neither one worked ok. Lots of stuttering, pauses, freezes and audio machine gunning. I gave up. JR

There is a practical upper limit of about 300GB (the RAM imposed "soft" limit).

I thought I saw recently that someone had a 250gig Discount Tech drive that worked fine for 8 months with a maxtor-based 8300hd. Then the 8300hd got replaced with a WD-based one and the 250gig drive gives problems. If the problems were due to a 300GB upper limit, then 250 gig drive should have continued to work fine.

Everyone does realize that this is an UNSUPPORTED feature right? Not a single cable co has supported this feature

CORRECTION: Cablevision supports it (or at least did) -- when I ordered my first box in December 2005 I specifically asked about an external drive and the CableVision rep said yes. And when I called in March to swap the box due to the external drive problems, they said "take it to the cablevision store and get a new 8300hd". They never said "external drives are not supported'.


I understand the enthusiasm, but it's probably that enthusiasm and trying to attach drives too soon that is causing problems and making the cable industry rethink the whole issue.

If the 8300HD was available with sufficient internal disk space, I wouldn't be looking to add an external drive. IMHO, 20 hours of HD storage is too small. I would settle for 50 hours, though 70-80 would be nicer.

Scarlett. What firmware version is your 8300 running?

Brian

Scarlett. What firmware version is your 8300 running?

Brian
Last time I checked, we were still running SARA 87.27.1.

We are (impatiently) waiting on the version you are running. It was projected for November 2005, and some of our users Beta tested it and gave good reviews. However, when I questioned one of the TW Austin managers, he told me that they are not releasing it here because of bugs they have not been able to remove. I do know that TW in Albany, New York, has released your version, but Austin, Texas, is proceeding a little more cautiously.

It is because of these bugs in your firmware version, and because we have had no similar problems in Austin, that I suggested our earlier firmware version might work for you. The manager here did not state specifically what kinds of problems are caused by the bugs in your version, so I can't say with certainty that this is your problem. However, nearly everyone here who has tried the external SATA storage has been successful.

I am distressed by the report that the external SATA drive feature is going to be disabled! I am in the process of registering a complaint with TW Austin about this. If TW Austin does not release the new firmware that is coming from SA, then logic would dictate that we should be able to continue to use our external drives with no more problems than we currently are experiencing--in most cases, none!

If Scientific Atlanta would build the new DVRs with 500GB internal drives, then I would happily relinquish my external drives! Right now, I have 460GB on my 8300HD box and 380GB on my 8300SD box, and 500GB would be a great compromise. But what are the odds of that happening? I would guess that SA will install no larger than 300GB drives in the HD models, and probably no larger than 150GB drives in the SD models. Of course, they could save money by simply removing the 160GB drives that currently are being used in the HD models and then installing them in the "new" SD models!

In your conversations with SA and your cable provider, did they happen to indicate what size internal drives are being contemplated? Or how soon this is likely to happen? I have a fair amount of money invested in the hard drives, the external enclosures, and the special cables required. It irritates me no end that "SA giveth and SA taketh away!" Is the two-tuner TIVO available yet? :)

Scarlett

The external drive is/was never officially supported by any cable company - Period. Any reports of a CSR saying otherwise are/were mis-communiations by them. It is an unsupported feature that we, as a group, exploited to our advantage. The port is active by default, thus we were able to connect to it.
If there is any reason that Cable companies want to specifically disable it, it's because of customers calling and complaining about it not working correctly with mostly homebrew equipment. People are expecting this feature to work, when in no way has the cable company ever advertised it as a feature or service. To close that hole, some cable co's have requested to be able to turn OFF that port. Any success stories are NOT dependent on past firmware revisions, and firmware has very little, if anything to do with the SATA port working. The port works by default from the OS level, but some firmware revisions include screens for interaction and control. A newer firmware revision may give Head End control to be able to toggle the port on or off.
The primary reason for failure, after hardware incompatibilities and RF issues, is local HeadEnd applications running on the box. These are applications that the local cable company uses for various reasons, that are not part of the STB main control. These applicatons are using the same memory areas and resources that would be used with an external drive, so are causing problems and interefering with normal usage.

vegggas

The external drive is/was never officially supported by any cable company - Period. Any reports of a CSR saying otherwise are/were mis-communiations by them. It is an unsupported feature that we, as a group, exploited to our advantage. The port is active by default, thus we were able to connect to it.
If there is any reason that Cable companies want to specifically disable it, it's because of customers calling and complaining about it not working correctly with mostly homebrew equipment. People are expecting this feature to work, when in no way has the cable company ever advertised it as a feature or service. To close that hole, some cable co's have requested to be able to turn OFF that port. Any success stories are NOT dependent on past firmware revisions, and firmware has very little, if anything to do with the SATA port working. The port works by default from the OS level, but some firmware revisions include screens for interaction and control. A newer firmware revision may give Head End control to be able to toggle the port on or off.
How's my logic? -

1) Only a technically inclined and curious person such as the folks on this thread would attempt to connect a peripheral to a STB in the absence of instructions from a cable provider to do so.

2) And those folks calling the cableco and bitching is what's causing the cablecos to complain to SA and ending the whole thing before it got very far.

3) We have shot ourselves in the foot.

Did I get it right?

- temporarily at The Venetian for a trade show -

Any success stories are NOT dependent on past firmware revisions, and firmware has very little, if anything to do with the SATA port working. The port works by default from the OS level, but some firmware revisions include screens for interaction and control. A newer firmware revision may give Head End control to be able to toggle the port on or off.
The primary reason for failure, after hardware incompatibilities and RF issues, is local HeadEnd applications running on the box. These are applications that the local cable company uses for various reasons, that are not part of the STB main control. These applicatons are using the same memory areas and resources that would be used with an external drive, so are causing problems and interefering with normal usage.

vegggas
Well, why didn't you say so sooner? :) I didn't know if an older version of the firmware would help--it was a "clutching at straws" suggestion. Would the fact that I am running my 8300HD in SD mode mean that it takes up less memory and resources, and that is the reason I have been successful when Brian has not?

The hard reboot (thanks for the clarification on nomenclature) seemed to be the thing that worked for me. I just hope that TW Austin doesn't disable that port!

Scarlett

The external drive is/was never officially supported by any cable company - Period. Any reports of a CSR saying otherwise are/were mis-communiations by them.

I beg to differ. When I first ordered my box and I asked about it and asked for details, the CSR read the information to me from a computer screen. I highly doubt that CableVision would provide the CSRs with information on their screens saying a feature was available if CableVision was not officially intending to allow customers to use the feature.

In fact, the way the info was phrased by the CSR was like it was written to promote the features of the DVR so customers would want to pay the extra money to rent it (instead of a non-DVR box).

Also, I spoke with at least 2 different CSRs at 2 different times regarding the external drive. If Cablevision wasn't supporting the feature, at least one of them would have told me that. "Miscommunication" by 1 rep I could understand, but 2 or more is no longer miscommunication.


If SA/Cablevision disables the port (or if I can't succeed in getting an external drive working reliably), I will replace the box with a Tivo when the dual-HD-tuner cable-card compatible version comes out. I'd be fine with the 8300HD if it had sufficient storage capacity (which the external drive could add).

I beg to differ. When I first ordered my box and I asked about it and asked for details, the CSR read the information to me from a computer screen. I highly doubt that CableVision would provide the CSRs with information on their screens saying a feature was available if CableVision was not officially intending to allow customers to use the feature.

In fact, the way the info was phrased by the CSR was like it was written to promote the features of the DVR so customers would want to pay the extra money to rent it (instead of a non-DVR box).

Also, I spoke with at least 2 different CSRs at 2 different times regarding the external drive. If Cablevision wasn't supporting the feature, at least one of them would have told me that. "Miscommunication" by 1 rep I could understand, but 2 or more is no longer miscommunication.


If SA/Cablevision disables the port (or if I can't succeed in getting an external drive working reliably), I will replace the box with a Tivo when the dual-HD-tuner cable-card compatible version comes out. I'd be fine with the 8300HD if it had sufficient storage capacity (which the external drive could add).
I think you are missing - or ignoring - the reality of the situation. This box is intended for time-shifting, not archving. If your CSR spoke about it, he did not speak about building a library. For the purpose of time-shifting - an inherently short term thing - the internal drive is sufficient. The "extra money to rent it" is for the DVR as it shows up on your doorstep, not some future possible functionality.

- temporarily at The Venetian for a trade show -

I beg to differ. When I first ordered my box and I asked about it and asked for details, the CSR read the information to me from a computer screen. I highly doubt that CableVision would provide the CSRs with information on their screens saying a feature was available if CableVision was not officially intending to allow customers to use the feature.
Or, those screens could have come directly from the User Guide that SA ships with each DVR! There are instructions in the User Guide for connecting and formatting the external SATA drive.

In fact, the way the info was phrased by the CSR was like it was written to promote the features of the DVR so customers would want to pay the extra money to rent it (instead of a non-DVR box).

Also, I spoke with at least 2 different CSRs at 2 different times regarding the external drive. If Cablevision wasn't supporting the feature, at least one of them would have told me that. "Miscommunication" by 1 rep I could understand, but 2 or more is no longer miscommunication.
In my experience with TW Austin, I have found that most CSRs are totally clueless, and I can't imagine that Cablevision CSRs are any more knowledgeable. The turnover is phenomenal, and there isn't much "training" involved. I spoke with several CSRs, and the story was different from each of them--depending on their level of technological expertise. I got answers that varied from "I don't know what you are talking about" to "Yeah, I know it's there, but I don't know if it's active" to "It's there and is enabled, but we don't support it; if you can figure out how to use it, that's great!" As a side note, the CSR who actually handed me my HD box and entered it in the system couldn't even tell me whether it would work in SD mode! You get your most reliable information from Level II Techs.

If SA/Cablevision disables the port (or if I can't succeed in getting an external drive working reliably), I will replace the box with a Tivo when the dual-HD-tuner cable-card compatible version comes out.
The TiVo dual-HD-tuner cable-card compatible version is being released on Monday. I think the boxes can be had for $99 after rebate, and I think the hard drives are 40 hour and 80 hour, but not certain--I am quoting from memory, which admittedly is not that reliable. :) Monthly fee is tentatively set at $19.95. I would reprint the article, but it's copyrighted. I will try to find the site again and post a link to it. I'm not sure what TW Austin's situation relative to cable-cards is at the moment--I have heard some grumbling about it.

I'd be fine with the 8300HD if it had sufficient storage capacity (which the external drive could add).
I would be fine with the "new and improved" 8300HD also, provided it had a 500GB hard drive--even though it would mean losing all of my currently recorded programs! I know there is a way to record directly to your PC's hard drive in real time, but I am unsure whether the "Copy to VCR" feature can be utilized for the same purpose, using the same technology. If I could do that, I wouldn't lose any recorded programs after all. I would be able to re-author and copy to DVDs!

I'm just going to wait and see what TW Austin does about this issue. If the port gets disabled by ALL of the cable companies, then I feel relatively certain that this group will come up with another way to "skin this cat."

Scarlett

For the purpose of time-shifting - an inherently short term thing - the internal drive is sufficient. -

Not for me it isnt. 'Sufficient' is in the eye of the person using it. I use the box for timeshifting and find the capacity insufficient. Another 10-20 hours of HD and it would probably be sufficient for me.

The TiVo dual-HD-tuner cable-card compatible version is being released on Monday. I think the boxes can be had for $99 after rebate, and I think the hard drives are 40 hour and 80 hour, but not certain--I am quoting from memory, which admittedly is not that reliable. :) Monthly fee is tentatively set at $19.95. I would reprint the article, but it's copyrighted. I will try to find the site again and post a link to it. I'm not sure what TW Austin's situation relative to cable-cards is at the moment--I have heard some grumbling about it.
Replying to my own post...My bad! These are not the High Def dual-tuners! And this is not the original article I read, but it has more information than the one I found earlier, and it corrects some of the [mis]statements I made:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ZDM/story?id=1893376

Sorry!

Scarlett

If SA/Cablevision disables the port (or if I can't succeed in getting an external drive working reliably), I will replace the box with a Tivo when the dual-HD-tuner cable-card compatible version comes out. I'd be fine with the 8300HD if it had sufficient storage capacity (which the external drive could add).


I see there are no plans by Tivo to release such a box. Where did you get this information? I see they have a dual tuner stand alone box releasing Monday but it is not HD?

BRian

The external drive is/was never officially supported by any cable company - Period. ...
vegggas

Videotron (http://www.videotron.com/services/en/promotions/disquedur_enp.jsp) in Quebec sells the 160GB Quickview Expander to it's clients for $199CDN

:) I got in trouble once too for forgetting that our Canadian friends have some things a lot better than we do in the good old US of A.

I see there are no plans by Tivo to release such a box. Where did you get this information? I see they have a dual tuner stand alone box releasing Monday but it is not HD?

BRian
The high definition version allegedly is planned for later this year--at least according to the article I read, and if I didn't misunderstand what was said! I posted the link in my second post on the subject. Here it is again:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ZDM/story?id=1893376

Where did you read that TiVo has no plans to release a high def version?

Scarlett

:) I got in trouble once too for forgetting that our Canadian friends have some things a lot better than we do in the good old US of A.
"Better" is subjective - Though my provider does not admit that the eSATA works they have stated to me in writing they have no intention of enabling firewire on their STBs in the forseeable future.

I knew I should have said "different". :)

Where did you read that TiVo has no plans to release a high def version?There is a whole thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638886) devoted to the Tivo Series 3.

There is a whole thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638886) devoted to the Tivo Series 3.
Too bad I didn't know about this sooner. I had no idea that TiVo had discontinued its Lifetime Subscription! I might have bought one had I known about it before the April 15th cutoff. Oh, well....life is full of missed opportunities.

I read the entire thread and found it interesting and enlightening, but I didn't see anything indicating that TiVo has no plans to release its high def version--which is what my question to Brian was, i.e., where did he read that there were no plans to release a high def version. To the contrary, there was much speculation about the various release dates. Maybe you were answering his question instead of mine? :)

Scarlett

I think you are missing - or ignoring - the reality of the situation. This box is intended for time-shifting, not archving. If your CSR spoke about it, he did not speak about building a library. For the purpose of time-shifting - an inherently short term thing - the internal drive is sufficient. The "extra money to rent it" is for the DVR as it shows up on your doorstep, not some future possible functionality.

- temporarily at The Venetian for a trade show -

The Houston Time Warner Cable site states that you can build a library of recorded shows.

Record your favorite shows - choose one episode or an entire season, record two shows at the same time, build a library of recorded shows - all without videotapes or a VCR.

Click here (http://www.timewarnercable.com/houston/products/cable/dvr.html) to go to the web site.

Of course, it would have to be a very small library if you don't use an external drive. ;)

Note: Houston Time Warner Cable doesn't support external drives, but external drives do work on their system.

1) I should have said no U.S. cable companies ever supported external drives. All I know about are U.S. cable news events and the one that said all participating cable co's (U.S.) are not supporting the external drive due to inconsistant performance.
2) The SA documentation, given to cable co's and available online does have instructions on how to connect and use an external drive. CSR's can easily read those instructions if asked directly by a customer since they are part of the documentation.
3) The DVR's as outfitted for their primary purpose, can easily hold 100 hours or more of SD digital video. They were designed when there were very few HD channels and programming available to record.

vegggas

The Houston Time Warner Cable site states that you can build a library of recorded shows.
I certainly stand corrected. I'm surprised at the different levels of touting the feature, but vegggas is correct about SD recording time vs. HD recording time. And entire season of an SD series would easily fit. So would the HD version as well, but not much else. Oh well . . .

Scarlett,

I was just pointing out the thread because there seemed to be some interest in Tivo plans for an HD cable receiver and I didn't want to see the wheel reinvented in another thread. :)

I too, am intersted in where Brian heard that as it seems to contradict everything in the S3 thread.

Scarlett,

I was just pointing out the thread because there semed to be some interest in Tivo plans for an HD cable receiver and I didn't want to see the wheel reinvented in another thread. :)

I too, am intersted in where Brian heard that as it seems to contradict everything in the S3 thread.
TiVo's Series 3 box will feature dual QAM digital SD/HD tuners. It WILL SUPPORT HD viewing and recording.

TiVo's Series 3 box will feature dual QAM digital SD/HD tuners. It WILL SUPPORT HD viewing and recording.We know that, that was the point of referring to the S3 thread. We were wondering about bkuchner's post on the previous page regarding srothkin's post and Scarlett's comment about the SD Tivo being released Monday and Tivo having no plans to release an HD version.
Originally Posted by srothkin
If SA/Cablevision disables the port (or if I can't succeed in getting an external drive working reliably), I will replace the box with a Tivo when the dual-HD-tuner cable-card compatible version comes out. I'd be fine with the 8300HD if it had sufficient storage capacity (which the external drive could add).
I see there are no plans by Tivo to release such a box. Where did you get this information? I see they have a dual tuner stand alone box releasing Monday but it is not HD?

I simply said I didn't see any plans on their site about this. I was reading the site and saw about the sd 2 tuner unit but nothing about an HD. I've since come to realize there is an HD in the works. Sound and Vision is reporting it will only have a 250gb drive. Big mistake, 25 hours of HD will not suffice as more and more programs are available in HD. Also, the price has been put out there as anywhere from $800 to $1500.

I figured that might have been all it was, but you through some of us for a loop.

I agree that the 250G is probably a mistake and I don't recall if the S3 will have any expansion capability. Of course, if I'm more of a typical user, 25 hours will probably be fine for the majority of us. Since I tend to only record things I will definitely watch and I don't put off watching series episodes, I still haven't come close to the 8300's 20 hour limit. If cableco's follow through with plans to store recorded shows centrally, kind of a personal VOD system, then 250G's of local storage might be just fine, assuming they allow both.

Interesting data point.

I have an SA 8300HD with a Maxstor 160gb internal drive (6L160P0) according to the diag screens.

Two months ago I bought the Vantec enclosure (from NewEgg) previously mentioned in this thread, along with a 300gb SATA-I drive from Tiger.

It was unusable - 90% of the recordings ended early with no indication why.

Two months ago the box was running SARA 1.87.23.1.

Time Warner Memphis pushed a new firmware upgrade (1.88.17.a100) about two weeks ago. It has the fourth fast forward along with the 'Play from Beginning' option for shows in progress. Don't know if it still kicks you out when watching a show while recording it.

I tried the same eSATA drive again. Now, it works! I have recorded over 24 hours of HD and SD shows on the external box. Even two at a time while watching one off the same drive. All of them record to the end. A few minor glitches - 2-4 seconds of video or audio dropouts during some shows.

Gee, I hope TW and SA don't disable eSATA for drives that are formatted and working!

...I don't recall if the S3 will have any expansion capability.
Yes, it does, but it may be proprietary. The pictures of the expansion drive look identical to the Western Digital My Book--a 500GB USB drive.

Scarlett

I see there are no plans by Tivo to release such a box. Where did you get this information? I see they have a dual tuner stand alone box releasing Monday but it is not HD?

"Rumors" I've heard/read are that the series 3 will be that and will be released sometime in the July to September time frame.

I think you are missing - or ignoring - the reality of the situation. This box is intended for time-shifting, not archving.

I am using the box SOLELY for time-shifting. Between our schedules and the "feast or famine" cycle of shows we want to watch, 20 hours is simply inadequate.


If your CSR spoke about it, he did not speak about building a library.

True, but he did say the external drive was supported. And I have NEVER had a Cablevision rep tell me the external drive was NOT supported.

I am using the box SOLELY for time-shifting. Between our schedules and the "feast or famine" cycle of shows we want to watch, 20 hours is simply inadequate.




True, but he did say the external drive was supported. And I have NEVER had a Cablevision rep tell me the external drive was NOT supported.
I've been too strong in my comments as apparently there is a wide range of statements being made by CSRs. Whether the different cablecos have different scripts or CSRs are paraphrasing - always a source of creeping inaccuracy - I do not know. But clearly, different people are being told different things.

Did he say that the external drive, the one you're supplying, is supported. Or did he say the port for an external drive is supported. I know that may seem like semantics, but it makes a difference. Also, did the cableco provide a list of compatible drives?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueRock
Tom's Hardware has an article about a new 2-HDD eSATA enclosure. I'm definately thinking about hooking it up to my 8300HD. I would probably put 2 Maxtor SATA HDDs into it.

The article also has a nice description of what eSATA is.


It's been covered hera before a few times; you cannot connect two external drives to the 8300HD. Port replicator, you say? Won't work. Search this thread.

This unit makes 2 HDD look like one HDD. It has a switch on the back where you select RAID-1 or RAID-0. This definately looks like a cheap way to add a lot of storage to a SA 8300HD

Do you have a link to that site? Thanks, Joe

Apparently I have to have 5 posts before I am allowed to post a web link. I guess its a way the forum keeps out spammers.

I think this is my 5th post.

Originally Posted by TrueRock
Tom's Hardware has an article about a new 2-HDD eSATA enclosure. I'm definately thinking about hooking it up to my 8300HD. I would probably put 2 Maxtor SATA HDDs into it.

The article also has a nice description of what eSATA is.


Do you have a link to that site? Thanks, Joe

The link:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/04/17/thecus_brings_sata_to_external_storage/

The article starts out saying:

Thecus Brings SATA to External Storage
Patrick Schmid, Achim Roos
April 17, 2006 10:00

Most users do one of two things when their PC runs out of hard disk space: they either add an additional drive or rely on external storage with a USB 2.0 or Firewire connection. However, both options have their disadvantages, since installing a new drive can be a cumbersome process, while external hard drives do not offer the same level of performance as that of directly attached Serial ATA (SATA) or UltraATA. However, external SATA (eSATA) is a worthy alternative.

eSATA falls under the DAS (Direct Attached Story) category, which comprises storage products that are hooked up externally at a high speed using fast interfaces such as SATA, SAS or UltraSCSI.

Taiwanese storage firm Thecus' eSATA device accommodates two SATA drives, with a maximum bandwidth of 300 MB/s. Still eSATA is not going to replace USB 2.0 or Firewire any time soon: eSATA is comparatively a nascent technology and most motherboards do not yet offer it, while USB or Firewire can be found on almost any computer today. For this reason, Thecus decided to equip the N2050 with both eSATA and USB ports.

Originally Posted by TrueRock
Tom's Hardware has an article about a new 2-HDD eSATA enclosure. I'm definately thinking about hooking it up to my 8300HD. I would probably put 2 Maxtor SATA HDDs into it.

The manufacturer link is:
http://www.thecus.com/products_over.php?cid=1&pid=3&PHPSESSID=7439acd375761905df38af0516fc1fdf


Here is someone selling it for $190:
http://www.a-computers.ca/crazyspecials.htm

Put a couple of Maxtor 500GB Ultra16 SATA II HDDs in it and your good for 1TB of storage!!!

The manufacturer link is:
http://www.thecus.com/products_over.php?cid=1&pid=3&PHPSESSID=7439acd375761905df38af0516fc1fdf


Here is someone selling it for $190:
http://www.a-computers.ca/crazyspecials.htm

Put a couple of Maxtor 500GB Ultra16 SATA II HDDs in it and your good for 1TB of storage!!!

Do it already and let us know how you make out :)

TrueRock,

Have you been reading this thread at all? Shortly after your first (I think it was) post on 4/26 I made a comment about practical upper limits on the size of HD. That was subsequently challanged, and I provided a links back RAM Impacts on Ext HD Size (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6646022&highlight=RAM#post6646022)

Now if you insist on going ahead, be our guest - but don't say that you were not told ;)

Since eSATA is not available everywhere yet, Thecus bundles Silicon Image's 2515 controller for the PCI bus.]
My 8300HD doesn't have a PCI bus, does yours?

TrueRock,

Have you been reading this thread at all? Shortly after your first (I think it was) post on 4/26 I made a comment about practical upper limits on the size of HD. That was subsequently challanged, and I provided a links back RAM Impacts on Ext HD Size (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6646022&highlight=RAM#post6646022)

Now if you insist on going ahead, be our guest - but don't say that you were not told ;)
He wouldn't even get that far. See my above post.

My 8300HD doesn't have a PCI bus, does yours?

Well... more than likely, your 8300 does have a PCI bus... but you cant get to it ;).

The expansion box he is referring to has two external interfaces... eSATA or USB. The RAID is internal to the box.

http://www.thecus.com/products_spec.php?cid=1&pid=3&PHPSESSID=7439acd375761905df38af0516fc1fdf

However.... I would have to agree that trying this would be futile....

Well... more than likely, your 8300 does have a PCI bus... but you cant get to it ;).

The expansion box he is referring to has two external interfaces... eSATA or USB. The RAID is internal to the box.

http://www.thecus.com/products_spec.php?cid=1&pid=3&PHPSESSID=7439acd375761905df38af0516fc1fdf

However.... I would have to agree that trying this would be futile....


I have no problem in letting him try his hardest ;)

I have no problem in letting him try his hardest ;)

I just wanted him to know what he was working against.

After all, if Dmilani hadn't tried something different over a year ago, we probably would all be stuck at 160GB.

But he really should read the thread. At least postings written within a few days of his first post.

Tom's Hardware has an article about a new 2-HDD eSATA enclosure. I'm definately thinking about hooking it up to my 8300HD. I would probably put 2 Maxtor SATA HDDs into it.
The link:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/04/17/thecus_brings_sata_to_external_storage/

The manufacturer link is:
http://www.thecus.com/products_over...f38af0516fc1fdf

Here is someone selling it for $190:
http://www.a-computers.ca/crazyspecials.htm

Put a couple of Maxtor 500GB Ultra16 SATA II HDDs in it and your good for 1TB of storage!!!


TrueRock,

Have you been reading this thread at all? Shortly after your first (I think it was) post on 4/26 I made a comment about practical upper limits on the size of HD. That was subsequently challanged, and I provided a links back RAM Impacts on Ext HD Size (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6646022&highlight=RAM#post6646022)

Now if you insist on going ahead, be our guest - but don't say that you were not told ;)

OK, I'm being chastised by Dave. I admit, I was trolling for flame when I threw my comments on the board.

So, the obvious issue: 300GB Maxtor HDDs work perfectly, 500GB Maxtor HDDs work perfectly, what is the upper limit?

500GB Maxtor HDDs cost $250 per drive. The enclosure is $200. Now, if I just had $700...

By the way - my 300GB Maxtor has been running for over a year and I have had no problems. I keep the top of the HDD enclosure off and it seems to run cooler that way. Maxtor makes HDDs specifically to be used with DVRs. Plus, the comments on this forum seem to indicate that they work very well with the SA 8300HD. I highly recommend the Maxtor SATA HDDs.

And, because its been a long time since I've used this forum, I have another comment to make. The HDD does not make a good place to create a "library" of TV videos. I bought a $89 DVD recorder ( http://www.cyberhome.com/products.asp?Product=1600 ) that makes a pretty good DVD copy of any TV show I want to save. I admit, it's a long way from 1080p quality.

So, the obvious issue: 300GB Maxtor HDDs work perfectly, 500GB Maxtor HDDs work perfectly, what is the upper limit?

Again, if you check out the discussion - particularly postings from veggas you'll see that the upper limit is rather soft. At lot of 500GB Maxtors don't work perfectly - but some do. Key is that the Maxtor Qucikview Expander (designed for the 8300) is ONLY available UP TO 300GB.

Did he say that the external drive, the one you're supplying, is supported. Or did he say the port for an external drive is supported. I know that may seem like semantics, but it makes a difference. Also, did the cableco provide a list of compatible drives?

He said the DVR would support an external drive. He didn't provide a list of compatible drives -- he said to refer to the documentation for the requirements (which both drives I have tried exceeded).

He said the DVR would support an external drive. He didn't provide a list of compatible drives -- he said to refer to the documentation for the requirements (which both drives I have tried exceeded)....and by "exceeded", I think he means the drives exceeded the minimum requirements and thus should have been compatible.

Well... more than likely, your 8300 does have a PCI bus... but you cant get to it ;).

The expansion box he is referring to has two external interfaces... eSATA or USB. The RAID is internal to the box.

http://www.thecus.com/products_spec.php?cid=1&pid=3&PHPSESSID=7439acd375761905df38af0516fc1fdf

However.... I would have to agree that trying this would be futile....
As I was driving home I realized I had probably misread the review and that the PCI card was to add eSATA to a PC and that the RAID functionality was onboard the external enclosure. Shades of Steelvine . . .

He said the DVR would support an external drive. He didn't provide a list of compatible drives -- he said to refer to the documentation for the requirements (which both drives I have tried exceeded).
Poets, priests and politicians - and, I suspect, cable companies - have words to thank for their positions. The DVR supporting the external drive is not necessarily the same as the cable company supporting it.

There's been much discussion on this forum, with some users finding that particular SATA drive brands/models "work" and some don't. The bandwidth demands the 8300HD puts on the drive are well within the capabilities of any 7200 rpm SATA drive, and the ATA protocol is very mature, so that's not likely to be the problem.

The likely explanation for this variability is that the electrical specifications of the SATA interface for external devices (eSATA) are different from those of the original SATA interface specification, which was designed only for internal drives---they're tighter to allow for signal degradation in the longer external cable you'd expect to use in an eSATA configuration. See the white paper at http://www.sata-io.org/docs/External%20SATA%20WP%2011-09.pdf, which mentions the SA 8300HD specifically.

Since eSATA is newer, it's likely that the design of some (most?) first generation SATA drives do not meet these tighter eSATA specifications, but that the eSATA port on the 8300HD does. Hence, it's a crap shoot if a particular first generation SATA drive brand/model works in a given situation, and may work better with the shortest possible cable. It's difficult to check the interface electrical specification details of a drive without tracking down the manufacturer's OEM design manual/specifications for the drive (which some manufacturers put on their web sites, and some don't).

I'm speculating, but it's reasonable to assume that the newest (2nd generation) drive designs from most manufacturers do meet the eSATA specs, and thus have a higher probability of working with the 8300HD.

However, note that none of this is likely to fix the "trickbuffer" problem, which is clearly a 8300 software issue.

However, note that none of this is likely to fix the "trickbuffer" problem, which is clearly a 8300 software issue.
Bingo! Time to beat my drum again; the "software" does not yet support the SATA port.

Bingo! Time to beat my drum again; the "software" does not yet support the SATA port.

Not trying to be difficult but I would probably say it a little differently.... I dont believe the SATA port is really the issue... I believe the root issue is two physical disk drives.

So if you said that the DVR software does not properly manage or support a dual disk environment then I would wholeheartedly agree.

for whatever my agreement is worth.... ;)

Just a reminder folks: The "Trick Play" problem with external drives is one ONLY with PASSPORT software. Not with SARA

Not trying to be difficult but I would probably say it a little differently.... I dont believe the SATA port is really the issue... I believe the root issue is two physical disk drives.

So if you said that the DVR software does not properly manage or support a dual disk environment then I would wholeheartedly agree.

for whatever my agreement is worth.... ;)
It's worth a lot, but you're agreeing to something else. :)

dps-raleigh was commenting on why some drives work and others do not, and concluded that the trick-play buffer not working (on Passport setups with attached drives) was due to a "software issue."

Ok, so here's a real kicker. Went and picked up another 8300HD today figuring if I can't have external storage then I need another unit. Anyway, hooked it up, added the external drive and guess what, external drive is working. Both units are manufactured in June 2005, both are running identicle software and identical WD Hard drives. The only TWO things different about the new unit versus the first is this.

1. I hooked up external drive from beginning, original unit I didn't try the external drive until after there was already programming on internal drive.

2. I don't believe the cable company has sent a "hit" to my box because I'm getting premium programing I didn't pay for. Eventually the box will take a hit or reboot and I will have my paid programming.

I don't know why the external is working now and not on ther previous 2 identical units I had but we will see if it lasts.

Brian

Ok, so here's a real kicker. Went and picked up another 8300HD today figuring if I can't have external storage then I need another unit. Anyway, hooked it up, added the external drive and guess what, external drive is working. Both units are manufactured in June 2005, both are running identicle software and identical WD Hard drives. The only TWO things different about the new unit versus the first is this.

1. I hooked up external drive from beginning, original unit I didn't try the external drive until after there was already programming on internal drive.

2. I don't believe the cable company has sent a "hit" to my box because I'm getting premium programing I didn't pay for. Eventually the box will take a hit or reboot and I will have my paid programming.

I don't know why the external is working now and not on ther previous 2 identical units I had but we will see if it lasts.

Brian

Congrats and keep us updated...

jwd

So near, and yet so far.

My SA8300 stopped picking anything up from the cable after I attempted to record to my computer via it's firewire port... as has happened before it rebooted the 8300 when the recording started, and while I could access what was already recorded nothing new was coming in.

So, i took it back to Time Warner and got a new one (and here's where I go on-topic) and just for laughs I plugged the new one into a 400GB WD drive in a 'coolmax' SATA/firewire/USB external enclosure. And voila! The drive access light went on when I plugged the 8300 in, and I went into the diagonotic screen it showed 500GB available!

Didn't actually work, though, since the 8300 never bothered to ask if I wanted to format the drive... I deleted the partition table with a PC and plugged it back in and there was nobody home.

This is like a blast from the past back to the days of plug 'n pray, which is not a good thing. :(

Um, duh, my 8300 uses Passport...

Since eSATA is newer, it's likely that the design of some (most?) first generation SATA drives do not meet these tighter eSATA specifications ... I'm speculating, but it's reasonable to assume that the newest (2nd generation) drive designs from most manufacturers do meet the eSATA specs, and thus have a higher probability of working with the 8300HD.

Sorry but I do not agree with your speculation.

First, most people hooking up these drives use a short cable, the same length you might use inside a PC. The only difference is the connector, and the fact that the cable is shielded.

Second, most people are using second generation drives and still experiencing problems.

It's a nice theory, but untl proven otherwise, I will maintain that the incompatibilities are due to firmware issues and/or SARA bugs.

Sorry but I do not agree with your speculation.

First, most people hooking up these drives use a short cable, the same length you might use inside a PC. The only difference is the connector, and the fact that the cable is shielded.

Second, most people are using second generation drives and still experiencing problems.

It's a nice theory, but untl proven otherwise, I will maintain that the incompatibilities are due to firmware issues and/or SARA bugs.

I agree, SATA shouldn't be one of the black arts and that's just what we're dealing with here. The fact that I almost got a reaction from plugging in a drive to an 8300 running Passport has me thinking firmware.

It would be nice if someone could actually get SA or one of the cable companies to address the issue, wouldn't it? I for one could live with a "no you can't use it" answer and would in fact rather have that over this craziness.

They could, you know, actually fix it, too.

I have no idea if this may or may not apply to all Cox customers but it's interesting nonetheless and I thought you guys might like to see it. Hope springs eternal!


Cox May replace its own DVRs with TiVos
Posted by Hemos on Monday May 08, @02:02PM
from the eat-a-box dept.

Television Hardware
Controlio writes "According to a posting by user BrettStah on the TiVo Community Forums, Cox Cable is currently circulating a survey to gauge customer's interest in TiVo services. From the survey, 'While Cox currently offers its own DVR service, the Cox DVR may soon be powered by TiVo, and include the features that TiVo owners have come to expect. If Cox were to offer digital cable service with a TiVo branded DVR for about the same price as you are currently paying for satellite service each month, how likely would you be to switch from satellite TV to Cox cable that featured this TiVo branded DVR service?'"

Credit to Slashdot.org for the article

drivie,

vegggas posted this the other day in the Tips thread:

http://thomashawk.com/2006/05/cox-communications-and-tivo-sitting-in.html

That "news" has been around for a few days - Check the tips and tricks thread for more info. The surmise is that Cox could run the third party software from Tivo on the Moto STB's, and possible on the SA STB's.

For the poster on Passport, The SATA interface screens were there as delivered by SA, but deleted to put the Aptiva Passport software on the box instead.

vegggas
edit: Dave posted while I was typing...

Sorry guys...I only watch a certain number of threads so I was unaware of the fact that the news has been around for a few days.

Drivie

drivie, I added the link so you could read more about it, not to indicate you shouldn't have posted anything. These 8300 threads are getting so big, I'm surprised more doesn't get lost in the shuffle or cross-posted.

Edit: I didn't see vegggas' post before I posted this comment. :)

I have read through this thread, and I am a little naive about this, so here is goes:

Do I need a special connector to connect to the SA 8300HD with an external SATA drive, or does the SATA to SATA work? Do I need an SATA to eSATA cable?

Thanks

Do I need a special connector to connect to the SA 8300HD with an external SATA drive, or does the SATA to SATA work? Do I need an SATA to eSATA cable?The connector on the 8300HD is an eSATA connector, so your cable will need to have at least one eSATA connector on it.

The other end of the cable is determined by the external drive interface. If your external drive has a normal SATA connector, then you'll need an eSATA-to-SATA cable. If your external drive has an eSATA connector, you'll need an eSATA-to-eSATA cable.

Many folks who have tried adding an external drive have taken a SATA drive (sold for use inside a computer) and stuck it into an inexpensive enclosure sold for the purpose of turning "internal" drives into "external" drives. Most of those inexpensive enclosures have a regular SATA ("internal") connector on them, which drives the eSATA-to-SATA cable requirement.

What happens to a working eSATA external Hard Drive's data (if anything) in the event of an unprotetced (UPS) power outage?

Does it come right back up if the eSATA external Hard Drive is powered up before the SA 8300HD?

Many folks who have tried adding an external drive have taken a SATA drive (sold for use inside a computer) and stuck it into an inexpensive enclosure sold for the purpose of turning "internal" drives into "external" drives. Most of those inexpensive enclosures have a regular SATA ("internal") connector on them, which drives the eSATA-to-SATA cable requirement.

I figured that would be the case. I went out tonight to Fry's and bought a 160GB Western Digital and an external box for $125 out the door. :D Fry's has the 160GB Western Digital on sale until close on the 9th for $49.99 and a 200GB Maxtor for $69.99. Both are 7200rpm with a 8mb buffer.

I will head back there tomorrow or to BB to pick up the proper cord and hopefully plug and play.

Thanks.

Sorry but I do not agree with your speculation.

First, most people hooking up these drives use a short cable, the same length you might use inside a PC. The only difference is the connector, and the fact that the cable is shielded.
Well, the shortest SATA to eSATA cable I could find was 3 ft., and I don't use anything that long inside my PC's. I would have preferred a shorter cable--just couldn't find one.

Second, most people are using second generation drives and still experiencing problems.
Agreed.

It's a nice theory, but untl proven otherwise, I will maintain that the incompatibilities are due to firmware issues and/or SARA bugs.
Well, here is what I have been told is the official reason that our cable company is not supporting the external drive:

With the SATA connection, it is active but not supported by us right now. There is a key GUI piece missing to make it user friendly. If the drive loses power, the main drive in the box considers that hard drive dead and reformats and places all of the file allocation on the main drive. On the occasions where it does not…one issue is that when they are both running, it does not write to one and then another. It spans both drives. So if either fail, all recordings are then dead. We are awaiting more from SA on this.
This is not the way that I have always understood that the drives "behave." My understanding is that the recording is always made to the drive with the most free space available. However, I have heard references to the "span" theory also. If, in fact, it is spanning both drives, would this explain the brief dropouts in audio and video that have been reported?

We really are on our own so far as the external drives are concerned. If we can manage to make them work, it's a bonus. We are being allowed to experiment with this feature without any sanctions from the cable company. Scientific Atlanta says that the feature is completely firmware dependent. If the cable companies want to provide the enabling firmware or the disabling firmware, they will.

I have bought a TiVo/DVD recorder to compare the interface with what I have now. It is supposed to be better. However, until the S3 is released, there is no external port to use for expanded storage. The only way to increase storage space on a current model TiVo is to replace the 40GB or 80GB hard drives with larger ones. As soon as you do that, not only is the warranty voided, but also TiVo knows what size hard drive you are using and that you have opened the box to upgrade it. Good luck getting any support from them on an upgraded box! Of course, right now you own those boxes, but if the cable companies make a deal with TiVo to use their boxes and service, and then start renting the boxes to us, we won't have any expansion options other than to rent multiple boxes. I doubt that TiVo and our cable companies would be willing for us to open the boxes and replace those "wimpy" hard drives with the 300GB-500GB drives we are now using. They have just released the TiVo dual tuner boxes, but I can't remember what size hard drives they have--and I can't find one locally anyway! I will buy one, though, because the TiVo boxes can be networked--you can record a show on one and watch it on another. The SA 8300's have this capability also, but they require...you guessed it, the right firmware...and we don't have it yet.

Overall, I think it all boils down to firmware or the lack thereof.

Scarlett

I figured that would be the case. I went out tonight to Fry's and bought a 160GB Western Digital and an external box for $125 out the door. :D Fry's has the 160GB Western Digital on sale until close on the 9th for $49.99 and a 200GB Maxtor for $69.99. Both are 7200rpm with a 8mb buffer.

I will head back there tomorrow or to BB to pick up the proper cord and hopefully plug and play.

Thanks.
You won't be able to find the proper cable at Fry's or Best Buy--or if you do, I will be surprised. They had no idea what I was talking about. You need to order it from www.satacables.com:

SS-1ESS.... 3ft. (1-Meter) eSATA to SATA Cable Type I to Type L.....1..... $15.99

I think the shipping was around $11. Delivery took about 4 or 5 days. Good luck with the Western Digital. Let us know if it works.

Scarlett

What happens to a working eSATA external Hard Drive's data (if anything) in the event of an unprotetced (UPS) power outage?
Nothing.

Does it come right back up if the eSATA external Hard Drive is powered up before the SA 8300HD?
Yes.

We have had huge thunderstorms here in Austin recently and have lost power from minutes, to hours, to days. In each instance, I simply unplugged the 8300's and the external drives so that they wouldn't turn on when the power came back on. I then powered the external drive first, waited for it to spin up, then rebooted the 8300. Everything was intact...with the exception of the programs that were recording when the power failed! :)

Scarlett

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkerdman
What happens to a working eSATA external Hard Drive's data (if anything) in the event of an unprotetced (UPS) power outage?

Nothing.

Quote:
Does it come right back up if the eSATA external Hard Drive is powered up before the SA 8300HD?

Yes.

We have had huge thunderstorms here in Austin recently and have lost power from minutes, to hours, to days. In each instance, I simply unplugged the 8300's and the external drives so that they wouldn't turn on when the power came back on. I then powered the external drive first, waited for it to spin up, then rebooted the 8300. Everything was intact...with the exception of the programs that were recording when the power failed!

Scarlett

I wonder if the data would have been OK if you were not there when the power went off and came back up.

I have lurked here for 3-4 months after moving to a city with no OTA HD.

Finally, I just went to Fry's and bought (2) of each of the following for my two SA 8300HD's:

VANTEC NST-360SU-BK SATA
http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4741169?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

MXT L01F500 500GB SATAII
http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4551377?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

It was absolutely plug-and-play on both of my SA 8300's by powering up the VANTEC NST-360SU first and then plugging in the SA 8300's.

The VANTEC NST-360SU had the neccesary eSATA to eSATA included in the box.

I have watched several recordings, some made 2-tuners-at-a-time to the external HDD with absolutely no more glitches than the SA 8300HD normally produces on my cable system- Cox Cable Santa Barbara CA.

Done deal.

I have lurked here for 3-4 months after moving to a city with no OTA HD.

Finally, I just went to Fry's and bought (2) of each of the following for my two SA 8300HD's:

VANTEC NST-360SU-BK SATA
http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4741169?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

MXT L01F500 500GB SATAII
http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4551377?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

It was absolutely plug-and-play on both of my SA 8300's by powering up the VANTEC NST-360SU first and then plugging in the SA 8300's.

The VANTEC NST-360SU had the neccesary eSATA to eSATA included in the box.

I have watched several recordings, some made 2-tuners-at-a-time to the external HDD with absolutely no more glitches than the SA 8300HD normally produces on my cable system- Cox Cable Santa Barbara CA.

Done deal.Wonderful news! This means that they are finally stocking something with the right "parts" in one box and we won't have to "mix and match" in the future. I'll bet they still don't stock the SATA to eSATA cables, though. What is the length of the cable that was included? And is the enclosure aluminum or plastic? And does it have a fan?

Scarlett

I wonder if the data would have been OK if you were not there when the power went off and came back up.Good question! I don't know the answer, because I was here, and I did disconnect both boxes. I suspect you can find the answer by plugging both boxes into a power strip, disconnecting it, waiting a few minutes, and then reconnecting the power strip. That would bring both boxes back up at the same time. I would be willing to try it if I didn't have so much programming recorded. Maybe you could try it since your setup is so new. Of course, you would be running the risk of damaging your new equipment if that, in fact, would be the result of a simultaneous restart! My guess is that it wouldn't damage the equipment, but it might corrupt some of the data, and it probably would require a reformat of the external drive. No way to know for sure unless someone else has experienced this event and can share the outcome. Scientific Atlanta's Tech Support might be able to give you the answer also.

Guess I wasn't much help after all.

Scarlett

You won't be able to find the proper cable at Fry's or Best Buy--or if you do, I will be surprised. They had no idea what I was talking about. You need to order it from www.satacables.com:

SS-1ESS.... 3ft. (1-Meter) eSATA to SATA Cable Type I to Type L.....1..... $15.99

I think the shipping was around $11. Delivery took about 4 or 5 days. Good luck with the Western Digital. Let us know if it works.

Scarlett

Thanks. before I go the route of ordering, and since BB is across the street from my house, I will just go ahead and try there. Outpost has a SATA - eSATA adaptor so if BB does not have one, I will go to Fry's, with my current box, and either return to get the box WITH the eSATA to SATA or get the adaptor and try it.

Thanks for everyone's responses. That is why I come to this forum.

Good question! I don't know the answer, because I was here, and I did disconnect both boxes. I suspect you can find the answer by plugging both boxes into a power strip, disconnecting it, waiting a few minutes, and then reconnecting the power strip. That would bring both boxes back up at the same time. I would be willing to try it if I didn't have so much programming recorded. Maybe you could try it since your setup is so new. Of course, you would be running the risk of damaging your new equipment if that, in fact, would be the result of a simultaneous restart! My guess is that it wouldn't damage the equipment, but it might corrupt some of the data, and it probably would require a reformat of the external drive. No way to know for sure unless someone else has experienced this event and can share the outcome. Scientific Atlanta's Tech Support might be able to give you the answer also.

Guess I wasn't much help after all.

Scarlett

I've experienced the issue (loss of power to both SA8300HD and Ext Drive at the same time) and everything comes out fine. The only thing you see is a message after power up that an external drive that works with this DVR was detected. It does not reformat the drive or anything and all previously recorded programs are there. I think that the "deal" is that when the box comes back up it first needs to reboot - starting with getting "authorization" from the cable head end. By the time it gets around to checking the hard drive, that drive is up and running. It really is a "no sweat" issue.

Well, here is what I have been told is the official reason that our cable company is not supporting the external drive:

With the SATA connection, it is active but not supported by us right now. There is a key GUI piece missing to make it user friendly. If the drive loses power, the main drive in the box considers that hard drive dead and reformats and places all of the file allocation on the main drive. On the occasions where it does not…one issue is that when they are both running, it does not write to one and then another. It spans both drives. So if either fail, all recordings are then dead. We are awaiting more from SA on this.
This is not the way that I have always understood that the drives "behave." My understanding is that the recording is always made to the drive with the most free space available. However, I have heard references to the "span" theory also. If, in fact, it is spanning both drives, would this explain the brief dropouts in audio and video that have been reported?

We really are on our own so far as the external drives are concerned. If we can manage to make them work, it's a bonus. We are being allowed to experiment with this feature without any sanctions from the cable company. Scientific Atlanta says that the feature is completely firmware dependent. If the cable companies want to provide the enabling firmware or the disabling firmware, they will.
Scarlett

I don't know where your cable company got it's information - but it appears to be wrong. SA documentation makes pretty clear that there is no spanning going on. I've often had a problem with the BS that cable often hands out. Often it is good intentioned, but "half baked" information - as in your quote. It may well be that someone at that cable company thinks that the user should be able to direct to what drive a recording goes - until it does that it is not acceptable.

The REAL issue is that cable has not figured out where they can make additional money from customer attached external hard drives. Further, they do not look forward to the additional support hassles with such customer attached equipment and just wish it would go away.

Location: Tampa, Florida
SA 8300 HD
SARA version: 1.87.16.a109
Hard Drive: Maxtor 4R160L0
Cable Co.: Brighthouse

I purchased the Netegriti 300GB eSATA kit for Scientific Atlanta 8300HD from Discount Technology. Followed the instructions and nothing. The instructions included frequently asked questions and had the following:

“Known to work with Cox Cable, Cablevision, Time Warner Cable, Comcast, WOW Cable and Adelphia.
Known to NOT work with Brighthouse Cable”

Discount Technology’s website did not reveal the above comment. And DiscountTech (post 1527) stated, “The Netegriti drive kit is guaranteed to be fully compatible with your system (as long as you have SARA).”

I’m not knocking Discount Technology (well maybe a little), the customer service was very apologetic and I can return the item. (Don’t know if they will hit me with the 15% restocking fee.) I just thought with SARA, the hard drive in the SA8300HD being a Maxtor, and not going too large on the external hard drive, that I would be OK.

So does Brighthouse do something to the box differently than the other cable companies?
Has anyone had any luck with a product and have Brighthouse?

I have read a lot more since last night and in purchasing the Western Digital, I was going for price. Would you guys recommend just upgrading to the $69.99/200GB Maxtor or try the Western Digital before giving up? It seems to be quirky, according to others in the forum.

Ideas, comments, concerns, etc.....

Thanks ;)

I have posted before and what I said seems to have gone unnoticed. I really have to thanks Vegass for all his great posts.... It is all there plain and simple.

I will try this again..... The size of the drive doesn't matter....
I had a maxtor in the epower (cheapo) doing a 300 gig and no skipping.... I was alternating with another maxtor maxline 300 ...
all from newegg.... just got a wd500 and a ENCLOSURE ATHENAPOWER|EB-2318SU2S R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$55.99)HD 500G|WD 7K 16M SATA2 WD5000KS % - OEM (Qty=1, Price=$275.00).... Now I switc off between them....

Just do a Forced Reboot (without unplugging unit). On the front of the box, press and hold both the VOL+ and VOL- buttons, then press the INFO button. while rebooting simply switch the esata cable and walla , next hd ready.

I have been doing this for 7 months now with no loss or skipping.
I drive is a maxline and te other is th wd...I did format te original hd in te box.. simple just follow what veggass said.. took one minute or so to format both together.

My 8300 is empty most of the time as the 300 or 500 gig has to pass the 134 gig mark to ever touch that slow maxtor drive.

Al

I've experienced the issue (loss of power to both SA8300HD and Ext Drive at the same time) and everything comes out fine. The only thing you see is a message after power up that an external drive that works with this DVR was detected. It does not reformat the drive or anything and all previously recorded programs are there. I think that the "deal" is that when the box comes back up it first needs to reboot - starting with getting "authorization" from the cable head end. By the time it gets around to checking the hard drive, that drive is up and running. It really is a "no sweat" issue.And worst case if the external is not ready, the index entries to the shows recorded on the external are listed but you cannot play them. Just power down and power up with the external turned on first. All the recording will then be available.

Wonderful news! This means that they are finally stocking something with the right "parts" in one box and we won't have to "mix and match" in the future. I'll bet they still don't stock the SATA to eSATA cables, though. What is the length of the cable that was included? And is the enclosure aluminum or plastic? And does it have a fan?

Scarlett


I have the same questions about this enclosure. The cable that is included works with the 8300HD and how long is the cable?

I have two of the USB2.0 enclosures and they are well made. They are all aluminum and do not have a fan. The aluminum enclosure is suppose to act as a heatsink and pull the heat away from the drive. I don't have them on for a long time, only to back up files.

I believe the eSATA enclosure does not have a fan which worries me if using this for a long period of time. Hopefully we can get a confirmation on this.

Look forward to hearing your experience with this enclosure.

I can testify that the SATA port on my box is indeed active and I have successfully added a 300gb drive. The process was very simple.

Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3300831AS 300GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache (NewEgg)
E-POWER EP-301SA Aluminum 3.5" SATA External Enclosure (NewEgg)
External eSATA - SATA cable, 100 cm (Addonics)

Put it all together and hooked it up to the box, when it re-booted it recognized the drive and formatted it in a couple of minutes, and that was it... Astound/WaveBB Walnut Creek, CA.

As some of you have read, I have a Western Digital external SATA setup. I have followed the instructions that everyone has posted, but one issue. The box is not recognizing the drive. When would it recognize it? I have done an unplug re-boot, hard re-boot with the volume buttons, then turned on the unit and it does not recognize the external drive.

Are there any suggestions?

Thanks

UPDATE: I had originally bought an AMS DS-2316SU2SBK SATA External enclosure because it was the only one at the time that I could find to support SATA and it had a fan. Bad news was that the SA8300HD would not recognize it.

Returned it and got a VANTEC Nexstar 3 NST-360U2. Others in this post and the Houston, TX - TWC post. As stated, the 8300HD recognized it right away and it has now been put to good use.

IT REALLY DOES WORK!! :eek: :D

I bought a 300GB SATA HD for $99 and bought the plasitc enclosuer from the first post in this thread for $35 (Which now comes with a SATA to eSATA cable option BTW).

It was very easy to do. I was impressed at the ease of setup/install. Once it was pluged into the 8300HD, the drive was seen and asked if I wanted to format it.

I didn't know the external drive spins ALL THE TIME (like the internal drive does). This is all the time, even when the unit is off (sleep). So even though the external dive is not very hot, it's warm and with it running 100% of the time :eek: , I am a little worried.

Therefore, I just orderd one with a fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817155903) and it was cheaper then the first one I bought w/o a fan. I figured it's a better idea since it will be on ALL THE TIME.

I went from 60% of my storage space being full, down to only 20% now, so I now have more room for '24'.

Anyone else using the non-fan enclosure and if so, how long have you been using it this way? I just wanted some others thoughts and feedback...

Just wanted to pass along my 2-cents...


EDIT/UPDATE: 5/15/06
WOW This new case (E-POWER EP-301SA) is awesome. Way better then the other and the price was right too. The fan is pretty quite and it run WAY COOLER now. I may buy another and use it for a backup drive for my PC.

Two thumbs up on this case!

EDIT/UPDATE: 5/15/06
WOW This new case (E-POWER EP-301SA) is awesome. Way better then the other and the price was right too. The fan is pretty quite and it run WAY COOLER now. I may buy another and use it for a backup drive for my PC.

Two thumbs up on this case!

Good to hear, plus I figured that I would post. No one has in a couple of days. I am loving the the fact that I do not have to worry about drive space anymore. It is sweeeeeeet! :D

Returned it and got a VANTEC Nexstar 3 NST-360U2. Others in this post and the Houston, TX - TWC post. As stated, the 8300HD recognized it right away and it has now been put to good use.

In the picture I saw, it has a USB out only, no SATA connector, how did you get it to work?

I may get that enclosure for a backup drive for my main PC...THANKS.

BTW, I too am from Tomball/Spring..Small world :D
Regards, Matt

In the picture I saw, it has a USB out only, no SATA connector, how did you get it to work?

I may get that enclosure for a backup drive for my main PC...THANKS.

BTW, I too am from Tomball/Spring..Small world :D
Regards, Matt

There are 2 different models. The more expensive one has both the SATA and the USB. The less expensive one has just the USB. The complete model number is: VANTEC Nexstar 3 NST-360U2-BK SATA . They are on the back wall at Fry's, to the left of the hard drives, under the displayed bare drives. It is the one that costs $59.99. I think there was a black and a blue one. I got the black one since it matches most stuff in my HT system.

Hope that helps! :D

.......WOW This new case (E-POWER EP-301SA) is awesome......[QUOTE]

Would it take a 500GB drive? I have got mine to work with VANTEC Nexstar 3 NST-360U2. I like it but it gets a bit warm (hot) without a fan. The drive is a Maxtor.

Would it take a 500GB drive? I have got mine to work with VANTEC Nexstar 3 NST-360U2. I like it but it gets a bit warm (hot) without a fan. The drive is a Maxtor.

Mine has a 500GB drive in it. (epower case, ugly as ****, but oh well)

I am on TWC San Diego and received the 2.5.051 upgrade.

I used a Maxtor 250GB hard drive (6Y250P0- that's a PATA drive) I had laying around and a (fanless) Bytecc ME-740U2SI enclosure I bought from DealSonic and it worked first attempt. I've sworn off Maxtors for future purchases for my PC because I've had a high (at least 50%) post-warranty failure rate over the past 5 years across at least a dozen drives, though I still have several in use.

I also bought the ThermalTake eSATA enclosure (A2319) Pepar mentioned in post #1294 back in the day, but I'm going to use that for my PC.

As expected from the discussions on this esteemed forum, trick play doesn't work. Sometimes if I care enough, I sort of workaround it by recording whatever I'm watching, then going to the guide and playing it from the start then going back to "live" (the end of the recording)- though there (occasionally) seems to be a large lag between live and the end of the recording. I've also hung the DVR once playing around trying to simulate trick play with multiple channels (actually had to yank the power cord). Couldn't repro this problem.

Testing is underway on beta Passport code that activates - officially - the SATA port. I should know soon what build that is.

.......Mine has a 500GB drive in it. (epower case, ugly as ****, but oh well).......

Thanks. I'll give it a try too. The athena website said up to 300GB.

.......WOW This new case (E-POWER EP-301SA) is awesome......[QUOTE]

Would it take a 500GB drive? I have got mine to work with VANTEC Nexstar 3 NST-360U2. I like it but it gets a bit warm (hot) without a fan. The drive is a Maxtor.
It took my 300GB Maxtor, you could email the manufactuer and ask. What is the largest hard drive that the 8300HD supports?

Mine has a 500GB drive in it. (epower case, ugly as ****, but oh well)So what is your capacity now? I've heard that the overhead goes up with the drive size.

Wonderful news! This means that they are finally stocking something with the right "parts" in one box and we won't have to "mix and match" in the future. I'll bet they still don't stock the SATA to eSATA cables, though. What is the length of the cable that was included? And is the enclosure aluminum or plastic? And does it have a fan?

Scarlett

The length of the cable that was included was about 4 feet and the enclosure was fanless aluminum.

So what is your capacity now? I've heard that the overhead goes up with the drive size.


593 GB = 160 + 500

The length of the cable that was included was about 4 feet and the enclosure was fanless aluminum.The specifications for this enclosure state that it will accept up to a 400GB hard drive. You used 500GB hard drives if I remember correctly. Have you experienced any problems with the larger drives? Also, without fans, is excessive heat being generated by the constantly spinning drives?

Outpost sells these enclosures for $59.99. I found them at Eagle Computer for $39.95 and at Directron for $44.95 if anyone else is interested.

My SATA to eSATA cable is about 3 feet long, and I wish it were much shorter. Has anyone been able to find one that is less than 3 feet?

Scarlett

I just read/searched/clicked through 2 hours of information trying to find out if there's an external HDD that will work for my SciAm 8300HD DVR here in Austin, Tx as the Time Warner rep I picked the box up from today said I could connect an external HDD if I required more storage...

Is this now a fully confirmed go? As in, no bugs aside from the normal ones I'd get anyway? Also, what's the consensus on products?

Could someone post a FULLY working configuration?

Thanks in advance (I can't wait)!

I just read/searched/clicked through 2 hours of information trying to find out if there's an external HDD that will work for my SciAm 8300HD DVR here in Austin, Tx as the Time Warner rep I picked the box up from today said I could connect an external HDD if I required more storage...

Is this now a fully confirmed go? As in, no bugs aside from the normal ones I'd get anyway? Also, what's the consensus on products?

Could someone post a FULLY working configuration?

Thanks in advance (I can't wait)!
Ummm, yeah that's what this whole thread is about. If you have SARA it will work fine, and if you have Passport it will work, but your trick play buffer will no longer function. You can still pause and play i believe, but no fastforward or rewind on the buffered content. External SATA drive WILL WORK. By the way, what's a "SciAm"??????????

Could you have meant Scientific Atlanata 8300HD?

I just read/searched/clicked through 2 hours of information trying to find out if there's an external HDD that will work for my SciAm 8300HD DVR here in Austin, Tx as the Time Warner rep I picked the box up from today said I could connect an external HDD if I required more storage...

Is this now a fully confirmed go? As in, no bugs aside from the normal ones I'd get anyway? Also, what's the consensus on products?

Could someone post a FULLY working configuration?

Thanks in advance (I can't wait)!Yes, it works here in Austin. I have sent you a Private Message with all the information you need. It has been hashed and re-hashed in this thread many times. Two hours is not sufficient time to search through this thread--two days might be more accurate. :)

Let me know if you need more help.

Scarlett

Scarlett,

FWIW, it would have taken me about 2 minutes to read back a few posts, find your name as someone from Austin, and then PM you asking what you were using. :D

Also this person could just have spent 2 minutes on the first page on this thread and have easily found the fully working configuration.

Scarlett,

FWIW, it would have taken me about 2 minutes to read back a few posts, find your name as someone from Austin, and then PM you asking what you were using. :DAgreed! But look how many posts you have and how many he has. When I was new, I didn't know what "PM" meant, and I didn't know that you could click on a member's name to search his or her posts. I didn't think it would hurt anything to tell him about what worked for me, and I did it by PM so that it wouldn't be printed here for the umpteenth time. I know how everyone feels about "lazy" people, and that's why I read through the entire thread before I asked for help. Everyone here was especially nice to me when I had problems, and I was just trying to "give back" a little. Heck, I'm even one of those people who lets drivers into 5:00 rush-hour traffic! :) And in Austin, that is a rare gesture--especially when they don't even bother to thank you!

The only reason I posted to tell him that I had sent a PM was because I was afraid he wouldn't know to look for one! I didn't when I was new. If I have done the wrong thing, I apologize. I guess I'm still learning! :)

Scarlett

Agreed! But look how many posts you have and how many he has. When I was new, I didn't know what "PM" meant, and I didn't know that you could click on a member's name to search his or her posts. I didn't think it would hurt anything to tell him about what worked for me, and I did it by PM so that it wouldn't be printed here for the umpteenth time. I know how everyone feels about "lazy" people, and that's why I read through the entire thread before I asked for help. Everyone here was especially nice to me when I had problems, and I was just trying to "give back" a little. Heck, I'm even one of those people who lets drivers into 5:00 rush-hour traffic! :) And in Austin, that is a rare gesture--especially when they don't even bother to thank you!

The only reason I posted to tell him that I had sent a PM was because I was afraid he wouldn't know to look for one! I didn't when I was new. If I have done the wrong thing, I apologize. I guess I'm still learning! :)

Scarlett
You're cool, Scarlett. Some of us are a little cranky. :)

Scarlett,

Is everyone cranky this morning? I thought you handled the question very well. I was just making a joke (note the Smiley) and trying to offset some of twitchee3's sarcasm.

FWIW, I completely understand anyone's failure to find things on AVS using the search function. Anyone reading this thread can see that there are some folks having problems and I doubt any search would have turned up someone with a functioning setup specifically in Austin, and I think that's mainly what the poster was looking for. Heck, I've even offfered to summarize working setups if I could get access to the first post and I don't even use SATA.

I always check the post count before responding to the poster, but I was just joking with you, not chastizing the poster. There have been plenty of folks though entering this thread, and others, who are not new to AVS and were just too lazy to read, one even admitted as much, and I think there's been plenty of comment on that subject before. Sorry you took offense, not intended at all.

Scarlett,

Sorry you took offense, not intended at all.Oh, no, Dave--I didn't take offense at all! I did see your Smilies, and I used them as well. I truly thought I might have done something wrong! You are one of the people who has helped me tremendously, and I wouldn't have you think I was upset with you for the world. My response was a sincere apology for doing the wrong thing--if that's what I had done--especially since the "other" Dave also seemed to take exception.

I really am not upset or offended in the least. I just want to be a good member and not upset or offend any of the resident experts! I might need some more help somewhere down the line, and I want to be sure that I am playing by the rules! :)

Many thanks!

Scarlett

Scarlett,

That's good to hear, really. ;)

I don't think anyone is upset with you for responding to the query. I thought it was smart to use PM and not repeat info that has already been posted. I think folks just get a little testy when others say they read the thread and tried to search, but couldn't find what they were looking for, especially when it seems pretty simple, i.e., someone from Austin with a working SATA expansion.

I remember when you first posted, I was happy to see that I wasn't the only one to read a whole thead before asking a question. Some folks find a thread like this intimidating, but I think skimming these large threads actually makes one smarter. If all one does is look for the easy answer, they never learn anything or how to think for themselves. Then, too, like other things, some of us may be more adept at skimming a thread like this, or like my initial comment, more adept at finding answers in a somewhat round about way. :)

My response was a sincere apology for doing the wrong thing--if that's what I had done--especially since the "other" Dave also seemed to take exception.

No apology needed. I wasn't trying to take exception, but rather to point out that the beginning of this thread (as is often the case in many of these threads) contains the "gist" in the first few posts.

Thanks, guys! I'm happy to know that no one is mad at me. As far as I can tell, I am the only female-type who is posting in this thread, and I have been treated with the utmost courtesy and respect. I wouldn't want to do anything to change that! I appreciate all the wonderful help and suggestions I have received. I have learned a lot, and I am still learning. I have actually read this thread from beginning to end more than once, and every time I do, something else makes a little more sense to me. Very little intimidates or offends me--I even try to wade through white papers that are over my head, but then I can ask more questions! :)

Probably everyone has read the Fry's ad today, but just in case you missed it, and in case anyone else is looking for hardware that will give you an expansion drive, my favorite Seagate SATA/300 drive is on sale for $99.99, no rebate required, and it has the 16MB buffer.

Also, Fry's is advertising a new SATA external enclosure--the Cintre Z-Drive--that is $29.99 on sale with a $10 MIR. This one is aluminum and has a fan. I looked up the specs at http://www.meritline.com/cintre-zdisc-external-enclosure-ci-355u2.html:

The CI-355U2 is a new outstanding 3.5" external hard drive enclosure with built-in 12-in-1 card reading functionality including CF type I &II, SM, SD, MMC, MS, MS Pro, MS DUO, MS Pro DUO, (Mini SD, RS-MMC, T-Flash - adapter required). With a built-in 2 ports USB 2.0 Hub in the front panel, you can connect any additional USB 2.0 peripherals easily. Also, via 12-in-1 card reader, you can now transfer all your photo images from your digital camera. Additionally, aluminum body plus the 40mm x 40mmbuilt-in cooling fan enhance the heat dissipation and keeps your drives cool and safe.

Features:
Built-in 4 ports of USB 2.0 card reader. (CF type I & II, SM, SD, MMC, MS, MS Pro, MS DUO, & MS Pro DUO)
(Mini SD, RS-MMC, T-Flash - adapter required)
Built-in 2 ports USB 2.0 Hub
Aluminum Casing Cooling Down Your Hard Drive
Built-in Cooling Fan with Power On/Off Switch for ultra heat dissipation.
Support USB 2.0 Ports (USB 1.1 compatible), Transfer rate up to 480Mbps
LED indicator show Power / HDD Activities / Enable
Hot-Swappable: Plug & Play without rebooting
Kensington Lock Slot Available
Quick & Easy installation
Package Includes:
CD-ROM
User Manual
3.5" HDD Enclosure
Power Adapter
USB 2.0 Cable
SATA Cable
4 pin to 15 pin Power Cable
Screws
Specification:
Interface: IDE to USB 2.0
Dimension: 8.25"x 4.75"x 1.75"(L x W x H)
Support: Windows 98SE/ ME/ 2000/ XP/ MAC OS X
12-in-1 Memory Card Reader:
Compact Flash Card (CF Type I & II) - 4G
Smart Media Card (SM) - 128Mb
Security Digital Card (SD) - 2G
Multimedia Card (MMC) - 256Mb
Memory Stick (MS) - 512Mb
Memory Stick Pro (MS Pro) - 4G
Memory Stick DUO (MS DUO) - 256Mb
Memory Stick Pro DUO (MS Pro DUO) - 1G This is the least expensive enclosure I have found that is both aluminum and has a built-in fan. It seems to have a lot of extra features, but I think a SATA to eSATA cable will still be required. I believe the enclosed SATA cable is SATA to SATA.

I hope the above information will be beneficial to someone--always my intent! :)

Thanks again!

Scarlett

I just read/searched/clicked through 2 hours of information trying to find out if there's an external HDD that will work for my SciAm 8300HD DVR here in Austin, Tx as the Time Warner rep I picked the box up from today said I could connect an external HDD if I required more storage...

Is this now a fully confirmed go? As in, no bugs aside from the normal ones I'd get anyway? Also, what's the consensus on products?

Could someone post a FULLY working configuration?

Thanks in advance (I can't wait)!
I already did. I am in Austin too. email me if you you want more info. Get the case that I "WOWed" about and get a 300GB Seagate SATA from Frys for $99 and you be good to go!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7641121&&#post7641121
burkhardi@hotmail(remove the stuff here).com

Cintre case with fan $29.99 w/ $10 Mail in rebate and 300GB Seagate for $99 at Fry's till Tues.
I assume it's ok to post price since it's not for an AV product? Let me know if this is a no-no...

I've sent you a pvt message. Please respond. thanks.

Tom

I just read/searched/clicked through 2 hours of information trying to find out if there's an external HDD that will work for my SciAm 8300HD DVR here in Austin, Tx as the Time Warner rep I picked the box up from today said I could connect an external HDD if I required more storage...

Is this now a fully confirmed go? As in, no bugs aside from the normal ones I'd get anyway? Also, what's the consensus on products?

Could someone post a FULLY working configuration?

Thanks in advance (I can't wait)!

I've sent you a pvt message. Please respond. thanks.

Tom

... Probably everyone has read the Fry's ad today, but just in case you missed it, and in case anyone else is looking for hardware that will give you an expansion drive, my favorite Seagate SATA/300 drive is on sale for $99.99, no rebate required, and it has the 16MB buffer. ...




I have been waiting for the Seagate 7200.9 400 GB SATA to go on sale, but, for some reason, it just doesn't want to. My eyes are peeled though :)

Heck, I'm even one of those people who lets drivers into 5:00 rush-hour traffic! And in Austin, that is a rare gesture--especially when they don't even bother to thank you!

Oh, your one of THOSE people :)

We here at Glyph are very close to releasing an external SATA-based drive for the DVR market. For now it only works with the SciAtl 8300 series. However, it will also be compatible with Tivo3 when it is released this fall. Capacities will be available all the way through 700GB... these are special drives using the DB-35 model from Seagate, fine-tuned for excellent performance in the DVR application. If anyone has questions about the product, please feel free to contact me via a personal message here if you'd like. Thanks.

-Josh

To 700GB, eh? Well, this should be interesting!

Welcome to AVS Forums, Josh.

Cablevision's plan to offer its subscribers a DVR service that's centrally located -- so shows are recorded at the cable head-end, not the customer's home -- is being met with a lawsuit from a group of movie and TV studios. The studios say it's a video-on-demand service, and as such, must pay licensing fees. Cablevision says subscribers control all the functions of their virtual DVRs and it's no different legally from a physical DVR in the home. This will be a very interesting and important court battle to track.

http://www.lostremote.com/archives/008553.html

Is this the end of the DVR as we know it? No need for SATA drives. Cable company makes big bucks everytime you watch something. You own NOTHING just lease it.

Cablevision's plan to offer its subscribers a DVR service that's centrally located -- so shows are recorded at the cable head-end, not the customer's home -- is being met with a lawsuit from a group of movie and TV studios. The studios say it's a video-on-demand service, and as such, must pay licensing fees. Cablevision says subscribers control all the functions of their virtual DVRs and it's no different legally from a physical DVR in the home. This will be a very interesting and important court battle to track.

http://www.lostremote.com/archives/008553.html

Is this the end of the DVR as we know it? No need for SATA drives. Cable company makes big bucks everytime you watch something. You own NOTHING just lease it.
I don't think central storage will fly. IP holders will be successful in litigating it out of existence. Local (in our homes) storage will be judged fair use. Personally, I prefer it that way.

Cablevision's plan to offer its subscribers a DVR service that's centrally located -- so shows are recorded at the cable head-end, not the customer's home -- is being met with a lawsuit from a group of movie and TV studios. The studios say it's a video-on-demand service, and as such, must pay licensing fees. Cablevision says subscribers control all the functions of their virtual DVRs and it's no different legally from a physical DVR in the home. This will be a very interesting and important court battle to track.

http://www.lostremote.com/archives/008553.html

Is this the end of the DVR as we know it? No need for SATA drives. Cable company makes big bucks everytime you watch something. You own NOTHING just lease it.

From what I read, it is going to work exactly as your home DVR works, using remote storage. I did not read that they were going to charge each time you view something that you have recorded. How do you figure that they are going to make big bucks every time I watch something? Joe

pepar, I'm with you on this one. Local storage equates to "fair use", central storage smacks of "VOD", even if there is no added charge.

pepar, I'm with you on this one. Local storage equates to "fair use", central storage smacks of "VOD", even if there is no added charge.
While i don't agree that legally the VOD DVR system should be treated any differently than local storage, i would not trade in my DVR with a hard drive in it for anything at this point, i also prefer having the DVR in my home, especially with the current lagginess of VOD.

I don't know that I do either. I just think they are different, treatment is another topic. Giving users control simply opens VOD to everything that is available, not just what is licensed for VOD, and I can see both arguments. I will be surprised in the courts side with the cableco's, but stranger things have happened. If they do, then what would be the point to VOD?

I don't know that I do either. I just think they are different, treatment is another topic. Giving users control simply opens VOD to everything that is available, not just what is licensed for VOD, and I can see both arguments. I will be surprised in the courts side with the cableco's, but stranger things have happened. If they do, then what would be the point to VOD?
They are different; one is in our homes, owned and operated by us, while the other is not. IP holders/content providers would love to take it all away from us and make us pay each and every time we view/listen to something, but my opinion is that "Fair Use" will be upheld for "home recording."

They are different; one is in our homes, owned and operated by us, while the other is not. IP holders/content providers would love to take it all away from us and make us pay each and every time we view/listen to something, but my opinion is that "Fair Use" will be upheld for "home recording."

Just a minute here! In the US, the 8300 is NOT owned by us! It is owned by the cable company. Further BOTH are operated by us. The remote DVR function would still be owned by cable and still be operated by us! The ONLY difference is the location of the HD and the fact that the customer supplies power for the unit in our home. This IS NOT a library of programs that the user can choose from (which is VOD).

Please pepar - get it right ;)

Just a minute here! In the US, the 8300 is NOT owned by us! It is owned by the cable company. Further BOTH are operated by us. The remote DVR function would still be owned by cable and still be operated by us! The ONLY difference is the location of the HD and the fact that the customer supplies power for the unit in our home. This IS NOT a library of programs that the user can choose from (which is VOD).

Please pepar - get it right ;)
Ummm, maybe I overspoke. :)

I was including an external drive in the equation. And even though we lease my wife's car, we still consider it to be owned by us. But to be most accurate in making the distinction between the two, I'll emphasize "location" - in our homes as opposed to NOT for the remote storage.

You're perfectly right about remote storage operating exactly like local storage and not being a library of programming, but IP holders/content providers don't like ANY storage (other than the shiny discs they sell us) and would do away with ALL of it if they could. The courts will draw the lline around our homes; "home recordring" will continue.

Just my $.03 worth. (Due to inflation.) :)

I'm on my third SA8300.

Plugging something into the SATA port killed two of them, and plugging a computer into the firewire port killed the third, although actually death-by-firewire only happens when you try to record to a computer, you can actually watch TV perfectly well over firewire.

The dead 8300s aren't completely dead, in all fairness, they still show whatever you have stored perfectly fine... however when the thing boots it only gets as far as two 'dots' (the poor things belong to TW NYC and run Passport) and after it goes to channel 78, which is blank, and that's it as far as connecting to the outside world.

Why 78?!?!?!

If you go to look at debug information one of the two tuners shows nothing but zeros.

I checked for voltage between the 8300 and the cable, nothing there, so I don't think it's a grounding problem.

I haven't seen anybody else with this problem and that's making me crazy... the lesson here is obviously "Don't plug things into the SA8300" but it would be nice to find out what's going on here.

Any ideas? Any ideas where to go for a definitive answer (I suspect nobody from SA or TW will address this in any place I'll ever know about it).

TIA,

Dave

Plugging something into the SATA port killed two of them, and plugging a computer into the firewire port killed the third, although actually death-by-firewire only happens when you try to record to a computer, you can actually watch TV perfectly well over firewire.
I've never tried the Firewire, but it seems to me that a video signal for a display would not be the same as one for recording. And Passport does not support the SATA port, so why plug anything at all into it? A few have attached drives to their Passport 8300HDs and had a degree of success, but I can't imagine anyone here who hasn't attached one trying it to "find out what's going on here." And cable companies running SARA that do allow external drives don't really support the drives, so you're right, neither TWC nor SA will offer any assistance.

You might try posting on the Passport thread.

I've never tried the Firewire, but it seems to me that a video signal for a display would not be the same as one for recording. And Passport does not support the SATA port, so why plug anything at all into it? A few have attached drives to their Passport 8300HDs and had a degree of success, but I can't imagine anyone here who hasn't attached one trying it to "find out what's going on here." And cable companies running SARA that do allow external drives don't really support the drives, so you're right, neither TWC nor SA will offer any assistance.

You might try posting on the Passport thread.
The video signal for display sent from any STB via firewire is the SAME signal used for recording. It's the original digital transport stream (MPEG-2 packaged) which is being sent over firewire. Since it's a digital feed, basically 1's and 0's, it can be decoded by an MPEG-2 decoder in an HDTV for display, or it can be recorded, basically the data stream is written to a computer's hard drive in real time as it comes in, to a computer. Some boxes seem to know what they are connected to (i.e. Moxi), and others do not (i.e. Moto DCT 62xx series). Either way, all STB's send the same .ts data over firewire, that is, if firewire is active on a given box.

The video signal for display sent from any STB via firewire is the SAME signal used for recording. It's the original digital transport stream (MPEG-2 packaged) which is being sent over firewire. Since it's a digital feed, basically 1's and 0's, it can be decoded by an MPEG-2 decoder in an HDTV for display, or it can be recorded, basically the data stream is written to a computer's hard drive in real time as it comes in, to a computer. Some boxes seem to know what they are connected to (i.e. Moxi), and others do not (i.e. Moto DCT 62xx series). Either way, all STB's send the same .ts data over firewire, that is, if firewire is active on a given box.
And displays can acccept and process a .ts? Obviously, I don't know jack about Firewire. :D

I've never tried the Firewire, but it seems to me that a video signal for a display would not be the same as one for recording. And Passport does not support the SATA port, so why plug anything at all into it? A few have attached drives to their Passport 8300HDs and had a degree of success, but I can't imagine anyone here who hasn't attached one trying it to "find out what's going on here." And cable companies running SARA that do allow external drives don't really support the drives, so you're right, neither TWC nor SA will offer any assistance.

You might try posting on the Passport thread.

I was informed by the friendly TW rep that the SATA port was working, hence my experimentation. Also in another thread here people have successfully recorded 'copy freely' data from 8300s to computers, so that's at least possible in theory.

I've used firewire (and SATA) a lot and so far nothing has killed off any drives, computers, cameras, etc., etc..

I'm inclined to believe there's power issues with my building... it was built during the Roaring 20's and I wouldn't be too surprised if it was never rewired.

Didn't know there was a Passport thread, thanks for the info...

Dave

I was informed by the friendly TW rep that the SATA port was working, hence my experimentation. Also in another thread here people have successfully recorded 'copy freely' data from 8300s to computers, so that's at least possible in theory.
A number of CSRs from cablecos running Passport have recently told subscribers that the port is working. I don't know if they're ignorant of the facts, lazy with the facts or saying whatever comes to mind. As of now, Passport does not support the SATA port. Period. That some Passporters - and it is only a very few - have had limited success attaching a drive is more about the hardware knowing about the port than the OS/firmware. I happen to know that there is beta Passport code available for testing, with release scheduled for late summer. As has been noted relentlessly, a Passport version available that supports SATA is no guarentee that any given cableco will choose to deploy it. From this basically SARA thread, I see lots of reasons why they would NOT choose to use it.

Check out the Passport thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804).

And displays can acccept and process a .ts? Obviously, I don't know jack about Firewire. :D
Yes, they can. An MPEG-2 transport stream is NO DIFFERENT than the original feed provided by the cable company. If it's an ecnrypted channel, what is output over firewire is what the cable company would have provided had they sent it to the subscriber unencrypted. The transport stream sent over firewire to a capable HDTV is the same signal (as far as a single unencrypted channel goes) that is sent to the QAM tuner if the cable signal is fed directly into the HDTV's internal tuner.

Is there anyway yet to get the shows off of the hard drive to record to dvd?

Is there anyway yet to get the shows off of the hard drive to record to dvd?
My guess is that the best way is only s-video, but I'll want to wait to see what twitchee3 says. :D

Is there anyway yet to get the shows off of the hard drive to record to dvd?
I asked the technician who installed mine the same question. He said to connect a DVDR to the output, instead of a VCR. Then you record to VCR (which is the DVD recorder instead). He said it does not know what is on the other end of the output and doesn't care. Joe

I asked the technician who installed mine the same question. He said to connect a DVDR to the output, instead of a VCR.
He obviously didn't care enough to be more specific than "the output" either.

FYI,

I've successfully recorded from the DVR to a DVD recorder using S-Video output from the 8300 (my DVD recorder did not have component video input) and it works just fine. I did the recording manually rather than selecting the "Record to VCR" option from the menu system and I was able to take out the commercials by pausing the recording.

Drivie

FYI,

I've successfully recorded from the DVR to a DVD recorder using S-Video output from the 8300 (my DVD recorder did not have component video input) and it works just fine. I did the recording manually rather than selecting the "Record to VCR" option from the menu system and I was able to take out the commercials by pausing the recording.

Drivie

While we are discussing burning DVDs from the 8300HD via S-Video, I posted this back on 4/15/06 on the SARA thread:

One "trick" to maximize DVD quality from a HD recording is to record it in 16x9 format. To do this:
1) DO NOT use "Copy to VCR" mode - connect DVR-R with S-Video.
2) Go to set up wizzard (Power off, push both Info & Guide buttons on front panel)
3) Select 480i (press A)
4) Turn 8300 on
5) Press "#" key to get stretch mode (will squeeze image).
6) Set DVD recorder to record 16x9 image & record.

When done, run the set-up wizard again to restore 8300 to normal HD mode.

Thanks to ReplayJanitor, who published this awhile ago.

has anyone used more than one hard drive with their box? I have filled up one ext. hard drive and intend to buy another, but I want to be able to switch back to my original hard drive to watch the programs on it at a later date.

He obviously didn't care enough to be more specific than "the output" either.

I dont think that was true. He knew I would not have a problem hooking up output. Actually, he said he would stay as long as I wanted to make sure I was comfortable with the remote and features.

has anyone used more than one hard drive with their box? I have filled up one ext. hard drive and intend to buy another, but I want to be able to switch back to my original hard drive to watch the programs on it at a later date.
There is a post from someone that has used more than one hard drive. The post said that the hard drive had to be switched during boot up to prevent the OS from wanting to reformat the hard drive.

Here is a link to a post which describes using 2 drives (note: it is not the post I was referring to). There are follow up posts, too.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6733750&&#post6733750

How does the STB handle the recorded list for separate external drives? Does it keep a list of both, and is only able to access the programs from the connected drive?

Out of the dozen or so people who have tried swapping external drives, only one person claims to have done it successfully, but my recollection is a bit hazy on the particulars as it was a ways back in this thread. Try it at your own risk. Or better yet, seach for the post and poster and ask him.

I just noticed on my 8300HD Explorer (Adelphia) that I now have 4 levels of FF/REW compared to 3 just a few days ago. Is there a list anywhere with new features that this firmware may have besides this?

When you select a recording that is still in progress, you will have a new option to Play From Beginning and you won't get kicked out to live when the recording finishes.

The Firewire port may also be active.

The front inputs may also be active.

Well I went ahead and bought a second hard drive today (300GB Maxtor for $89 at Fry's) and set it up with the 8300HD. No problems with it so far. My recorded list does show all of the programs I recorded onto my first hard drive. When I select a program from the first hard drive and hit play it will go to the DVR channel (channel 800 for me, I have Adelphia) but obviously will not play the program. The good thing is that it doesn't lock up the unit, it just tunes to the channel and sits there.

I haven't tried reconnecting my first hard drive but so far it appears that the unit will work with multiple drives. I'll reconnect it tonight and post again.

By the way, my connect/reconnect procedure is to completely unplug the 8300HD and then work with connecting/disconnecting the hard drives. I always have the hard drive connected and powered on before plugging the 8300HD back in. This seems to work best for me.

This would indicate that the indexing of both the internal drive and any external drive is on the internal drive. That makes sense. The interesting part is when you record a program on drive 2 and it assigns an address. It may add the address to the index and have no problem, as long as you have the correct drive connected. It will also show up if drive 1 is connected, but not be accessible. You are going to have to remember what is on which drive, as it sounds like everything is going to show up in the recorded list all the time, since it appears the indexing is on the internal drive. Are both drives the same size? If they are different sizes, then it is possible that they will be formatted differently and that may cause a problem. This is very interesting. Thanks for posting. Joe

I do unplug my external drive for periods of time, like now with most programing in repeats and I've caught up on things tapped.
I unplug the extrnal because I have issues when tapping two shows and playing back a third at the same time so and since I watch 95% timeshifted it does become annoying. When the internal gets up to 65% I plug in the extrenal.
I have yet to have any issue of a show being deleted that is on the external when it is unplugged.
I've also had less issues of programs just stop being recorded when the extrenal is unplugged.

I just noticed on my 8300HD Explorer (Adelphia) that I now have 4 levels of FF/REW compared to 3 just a few days ago. Is there a list anywhere with new features that this firmware may have besides this?

If your with TW, besides the forth FF/Rew speed (read - really halls booty), the front A/V RCA jacks are live too. It's nice to be able to plug a game console to the 8300HD and pres the input select on the remote and play a game.

Besides those two things, I don't know what else the new firmware did...

Regards, Matt

If your with TW, besides the forth FF/Rew speed (read - really halls booty), the front A/V RCA jacks are live too. It's nice to be able to plug a game console to the 8300HD and pres the input select on the remote and play a game.

Besides those two things, I don't know what else the new firmware did...

Regards, Matt

What is the version number for this new firmware? Passport, right?

What is the version number for this new firmware? Passport, right?

No (why would you expect Passport on this thread). His system is SARA, and is about to be taken over by Time Warner. Time Warner has been rolling out SARA 1.88.17.100 in upstate NY over the last month or so.

This would indicate that the indexing of both the internal drive and any external drive is on the internal drive. That makes sense. The interesting part is when you record a program on drive 2 and it assigns an address. It may add the address to the index and have no problem, as long as you have the correct drive connected. It will also show up if drive 1 is connected, but not be accessible. You are going to have to remember what is on which drive, as it sounds like everything is going to show up in the recorded list all the time, since it appears the indexing is on the internal drive. Are both drives the same size? If they are different sizes, then it is possible that they will be formatted differently and that may cause a problem. This is very interesting. Thanks for posting. Joe

Actually, the indexing is in RAM (which is the reason that there is a "soft" upper limit on external HD sizze). The "key" to this multiple external HD operation is that the Index is rebuilt from actual HD content upon hard reboot. So one could have as many external hard drives he/she wanted - but the Index will only reflect the contents of the drives (internal + 1 external) connected on the last reboot.