The Official "PIO 4312/4304" Thread!!! [Text View]

gmwedding

03-23-05, 04:54 PM

A popular and affordable 43-inch, 16:9 HDTV-Ready plasma display, the Pioneer PDP-4312 package with the PDP-4304 black bezel monitor and matching speakers and stand, is back at some Costco stores this week!

In south Sacramento, California, the big box discounter received four sets on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 and I was told the eastern Sacramento store (Rancho Cordova) is scheduled to receive another four or so later this week. Sorry about the length of this post. I am taking this opportunity to consolidate and post information compiled from various sources, since we are considering a purchase today. It seems as if an official thread is needed for this model, since information is posted in different AVS sub-forums.

A report on another Web site indicates Pioneer is shipping newer, 5th generation plasmas to retail outlets, but several AVS'ers who've purchased this package seem to consider it to be a pretty good value. According to one online post about Pioneer models on another Web site, the first two digits in product names denotes screen size and the last designates the plasma generation (I think I have this straight, but maybe not). This would make the 4304 a 43-inch, fourth generation plasma technology. However, other information available online may conflict with this characterization of the 4304 as a fourth generation product (see PURCHASE NOTES, below).

Besides the nice bezel and black color which nicely frames the screen, what makes the PDP-4312 so attractive is that it is one of a few, recent generation HDTV-Ready flat panel plasmas available for under $3,000 (U.S.). Similar-sized LCD flat panel displays are much more expensive ? from about $4,000 to $7,000 (U.S.).

According to some Web forums posts and product reviews, this more affordable plasma also delivers good black levels (perhaps only surpassed by a couple of similarly-priced Panasonic plasmas), and a clean picture largely free from artifacts, noise and jaggies. I can attest that when viewed next to an even less expensive 42-inch ED plasma on display at the store, the Pio PDP-4312 picture looked much sharper with brighter, more vivid colors and much better (though not perfect) blacks. I also can attest that the range of colors reproduced seemed good (green values were vivid and especially impressive). However, I also noticed that orange uniforms and clothing worn by Syracuse University basketball players and fans in one demo scene appeared to nearly be over saturated and posterized under the arena lighting pictured. This caused me some concern about the red spectrum response of the display, and I still am thinking about this. I still believe the PDP-4312 provides an impressive picture for the money, but it is not perfect. Certainly, Costco does not have a very good HD demo loop to show off the capabilities of their displays.

One way that Costco has kept down the cost of the 43-inch model: using a 1024x768-pixel screen with a resolution that actually is slightly lower than HD resolutions, though right in line with typical plasma resolution offerings to date. Another shortcoming: no ATSC or NTSC tuners are included, but cable and satellite customers may not want to pay extra for these features anyway. The PDP-4304 does not include popular features such as a sleep timer function, or built-in audio controls for tone, surround sound, bass or left-right balance, though this could be mitigated with the purchase of a separate AV home theater receiver that has a remote control. Also absent are connectivity ports such as a cable card slot, OAR antenna input and outputs, i-Link (FireWire), an IR Blaster, or Digital Audio output and Subwoofer output ports. These features are available on other, more expensive, Pioneer models.

Some basic features included are a remote control with twin PIP (Picture-in-Picture) setting and an Energy Star certification. Both Pioneer models available at Costco (and sometimes through at least one other dicsount outlet ? Tweeters) also appear to utilize Pioneer's state-of-the-art Pure Drive technology, which maintains an all-digital signal to reduce distortion and produce a clear, smooth image. The Pioneer PureDrive feature is noted on the boxes, and on Costco's Web site. At the Pioneer Web site, other displays includes the following technologies (edited and condensed here):

? Advanced Continuous Emission II (ACE II): one billion colors; no false contouring and banding
? Deep Encased Cell Structure, new fluorescent materials results in highest brightness levels
? Digital Noise Reduction (DNR) effectively reduces random noise.
? MPEG Noise Reduction effectively reduces mosquito noise unique to MPEG signals.
? Natural Enhancer emphasizes image contours without causing adverse effects
? Color Detail Adjustment allows users to independently fine-adjust the six basic colors.

According to a Pioneer telephone support technician, the PDP-4304 has the same basic specifications as the_PDP-434CMX model, a 43-inch plasma that sells for prices ranging from about $2,400 to $4,300 online, with no external speakers or stand. The PDP-434CMX is a 'professional' display often sold to commercial users for digital signage, board room and other business applications. The PDP-434CMX's DVI-D connector has been replaced with an HDMI connector on the PDP-4304 (4312) version, so that it can be used as a modern home theater solution. The more commonly available PDP-434CMX also has two open architecture card slots (for communications and video), to add functionality such as a TV tuner, World Wide Web access (modem?), system control, MPEG playback, signal interface, or wireless connectivity or for an embedded PC.

The PDP-4312 box highlights the display size and resolution specifications, PureDrive, Deep Encased Cell Structure, Advanced Pure Cinema, five color temperature adjustment features and the Energy Saver function. However, the box marketing info (and the Costco Web site documentation begs a question: are the Pioneer ACE II (one billion, instead of a 16.7 million color palette, to minimize banding), DNR, MPEG Noise Reduction and Natural Enhance features also built in, and just edited out of the 4312 packaging, or they missing? (The documentation for 50-inch model does indicate that ACE II is supported, and so it probably is on the 43-inch model as well.)

Screen management features may be limited on the PDP-4312 as well ? though this isn't clear. Pioneer plasmas utilize several different burn-in controls, such as an Inverse mode that show images as a negative in off-peak hours to help achieve even wear of the phosphors. An Orbiter mode also can be activated to allow the plasma to constantly move a displayed image one pixel at a time at fixed intervals to help prevent burn-in, and this does appear to be supported, according to Costco documentation for the 50-inch model. But it isn't clear whether other Pioneer anti-burn patterns are available with these models, including RGB separate full mask and side mask brightness, and the Inverse mode, which is used to compensate for severe screen burn-in, according to the Pioneer support technician.

PURCHASE NOTES
As recently as March 18, 2005, the PDP-4312 (Costco item 704312) was available through the discounter's Web site, but the link (and product info) was removed a few days ago. Perhaps it will be returned. A 50-inch Pioneer plasma (1280x768p) also is available (at least in some stores), and still is listed on the Costco Web site.

On Nov. 19, 2004, Pioneer Electronics (USA) posted a notice on the company Web site that some "second- and third-generation plasma" displays have been prone to power supply failures, and that consumers are entitled to a free in-home power supply replacement if this happens. The PDP-4304 is listed as one of the displays that could be affected by this problem. Power supply failures are preceded by a loud popping noise. This information raises a question: is the PDP-4304 really fourth generation plasma technology, or an older technology?

The PDP-4312 box dimensions measure (approximately) 59l x 39h x 19w and it must be transported upright. This means it won't fit into the back of a typical SUV cabin. My Explorer and a neighbor's larger Chevy Suburban each have about 36 inches of vertical clearance through the rear gate. Bring a truck.

Another AVS Forum member reminds that some membership discounters provide 2% cash back at the end of each year and that large purchases such as this effectively reduce the price of the product by this same amount.

Also, yet another AVS member notes that Costco has a liberal warranty and return policy, as long as you keep the receipt, and I think perhaps, the original packaging. In addition, purchases charged to at least some American Express cards (and perhaps other brands) extend the terms of the original manufacturers warranty by an additional one year (for products with warranties that are less than five years). The PDP-4312 warranty is for one year, in-home service and the credit card purchase would double this. Costco accepts any American Express card, and the American Express 'Blue' card does include this benefit, which is called the Buyers Assurance program.

SPECIFICATIONS ? PIONEER PDP-4304, 43" PUREVISION? PLASMA PANEL MONITOR
Some specifications from Costco box, some from PDP-434CMX spec sheet
pioneerelectronics.com ? 800-746-6337

? 1- PDP-4304 plasma display
? 1- PDK-TS07 table top stand
? 2- PDP-S27-LR attachable speakers; 7W/channel, 60-20K
? 1- remote control

Aspect ratio: 16x9
Pixels: 1024 x 768
Dot Pitch: 0.93 x 0.70mm
Contrast Ratio: Data Not Available
Brightness: 1100 cd/m2
View Angle: 160 degrees
Video Input: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i
Colors: Data Not Available (ACE I: 16.7 million or ACE II: 1 billion?)
Plasma screen rated hours: 60,000 (30,000 half life)

Inputs (5 video; audio)
1- Mini D-Sub DB15 (RGB PC analog video)
1- HDMI with HDCP (Instead of DVI-D 24-Pin on the PDP-434CMX)
1- Component video (rear)
1- S-video (rear)
1- Composite video (rear)
1- AV (rear)

Dimensions: 42.1" Width, 24.8" Height, 3.9" Depth
Weight: 72 lbs
Power: 298W (0.8W in stand by)
Warranty: Standard 1-year manufacturer warranty

pbenjamin

03-23-05, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by gmwedding

The PDP-4312 box highlights the display size and resolution specifications, PureDrive, Deep Encased Cell Structure, Advanced Pure Cinema, five color temperature adjustment features and the Energy Saver function. However, the box marketing info (and the Costco Web site documentation begs a question: are the Pioneer ACE II (one billion, instead of a 16.7 million color palette, to minimize banding), DNR, MPEG Noise Reduction and Natural Enhance features also built in, and just edited out of the 4312 packaging, or they missing? (The documentation for 50-inch model does indicate that ACE II is supported, and so it probably is on the 43-inch model as well.)

The 4312 package is back on Costco's website at this moment and the list of features includes ACE II. I own one of these and can attest to the DNR and MPEG noise reduction, haven't heard of "Natural Enhance". There are three color temperatures.
Originally posted by gmwedding

But it isn't clear whether other Pioneer anti-burn patterns are available with these models, including RGB separate full mask and side mask brightness, and the Inverse mode, which is used to compensate for severe screen burn-in, according to the Pioneer support technician.

It does not have these features.
Originally posted by gmwedding

As recently as March 18, 2005, the PDP-4312 (Costco item 704312) was available through the discounter's Web site, but the link (and product info) was removed a few days ago. Perhaps it will be returned. A 50-inch Pioneer plasma (1280x768p) also is available (at least in some stores), and still is listed on the Costco Web site.

As above, the PDP-4312 package is back on the website.
Originally posted by gmwedding

On Nov. 19, 2004, Pioneer Electronics (USA) posted a notice on the company Web site that some "second- and third-generation plasma" displays have been prone to power supply failures, and that consumers are entitled to a free in-home power supply replacement if this happens. The PDP-4304 is listed as one of the displays that could be affected by this problem. Power supply failures are preceded by a loud popping noise. This information raises a question: is the PDP-4304 really fourth generation plasma technology, or an older technology?

The 4304 is not in the list currently posted on Pioneer's website concerning panels with the power supply problem. I have seen it on other sites posting Pioneer's original press release. I believe it to have been an error. The manufacturing dates on the 4304 panels that people have reported here are later than the Pioneer press release. People have reported here that they have been told by Pioneer that this is a fourth generation panel.
Originally posted by gmwedding

The PDP-4312 box dimensions measure (approximately) 59l x 39h x 19w and it must be transported upright. This means it won't fit into the back of a typical SUV cabin. My Explorer and a neighbor's larger Chevy Suburban each have about 36 inches of vertical clearance through the rear gate. Bring a truck.

The box is an outer box containing multiple inner boxes. The box containing the panel itself fit nicely in my son's Ford Explorer, sitting upright. We were able to load in the rest of the boxes (speakers, stand, etc.) as well as the flattened outer box and a bunch of groceries.

Icon Smith

03-23-05, 06:09 PM

They're baack!! ...at least as of today at costco.com.

cheridave

03-23-05, 06:20 PM

Threads Merged!

Dave

drivie

03-23-05, 07:58 PM

Quick question for you 4312 owners out there...does the 4312 support discrete IR codes for on, off and input selection?

Thanks,

Drivie

Thegov3

03-23-05, 09:56 PM

Quick question for you 4312 owners out there...does the 4312 support discrete IR codes for on, off and input selection?

Yes for on and off. Not sure on the input selection.

waltaz

03-23-05, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by Thegov3
Yes for on and off. Not sure on the input selection.
If that means, "Can you change the input selection with another remote," the answer is 'Yes.' I programmed my STB remote to do it.

drivie

03-23-05, 11:17 PM

Walt, discrete IR codes allow one to perform a specific task. For instance, you can turn the display on with one key and off with another and you don't have to use a single key to cycle through the selections. So for input selection, there would be a discrete IR code for each input such that if you were to push one button it might take you to Input 1 and another button would take you to Input 2 without pressing a generic input button that simply cycles through each input in order...does that make sense? I'm just trying to determine if the 4312 has this capability. It's very useful for programming universal remotes with macro functions.

Drivie

xmltok

03-23-05, 11:47 PM

There is discreet codes for input selection, I am not sure about power.

SteveHoltam

03-24-05, 12:23 AM

Discretes for power and inputs, YES.

Steve

drivie

03-24-05, 12:33 AM

Thank you for the quick responses. Are the discretes offered from the existing remote or does one have to locate them online?

Drivie

egiro

03-24-05, 12:48 AM

Hi guys, after much research I'm going to my Costco in the AM and pick up a 4312.

gmwedding posted the outer box sixe at 59X39X19, too big for my VW Jetta with the back seat down.

Pbenjamin you wrote:

"The box is an outer box containing multiple inner boxes. The box containing the panel itself fit nicely in my son's Ford Explorer, sitting upright. We were able to load in the rest of the boxes (speakers, stand, etc.) as well as the flattened outer box and a bunch of groceries."

I wonder if you ore one of the other owners can tell me what size the main plasma box is. The backseat area of my Jetta is about 55" wide with the rear doors closed, about 33" tall and about 16" wide at the narrowest point.

If it's too big for my car, then I'll have to rent truck.

Can't wait to get it though!!

Thanks to all the posters who have helped me in my months long decision with their detailed comments and tought!!

Great website!

xmltok

03-24-05, 12:57 AM

I fit the screen laying down in the back of my 330CI. I took it out of all the boxes and laid it down flat, kept the speakers/stand in boxes in the passenger seat. Get someones help to load it.

egiro

03-24-05, 01:02 AM

Great xmltok, thanks for the fast reply! I'm sure I can get some help at the store, they're a pretty helpful bunch.

pbenjamin

03-24-05, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by egiro
I wonder if you ore one of the other owners can tell me what size the main plasma box is. The backseat area of my Jetta is about 55" wide with the rear doors closed, about 33" tall and about 16" wide at the narrowest point.

If it's too big for my car, then I'll have to rent truck.

I just went out in the garage and found the inner box, now flattened. It seems to be about 45x30x16 but I just can't imagine it fitting in the back seat of a Jetta. I would suggest a truck. I have had this problem more than once (owning a 2 seater T-Bird and a New Beetle) and have learned that you can rent a truck by the hour at Lowe's.

pbenjamin

03-24-05, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by drivie
Quick question for you 4312 owners out there...does the 4312 support discrete IR codes for on, off and input selection?

Thanks,

Drivie

I realize that you are getting a variety of answers here but here is another: No for on/off (there is a single button, i.e. the same code for on as for off) and yes for input selection (there are 5 separate buttons).

xmltok

03-24-05, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by pbenjamin
I realize that you are getting a variety of answers here but here is another: No for on/off (there is a single button, i.e. the same code for on as for off) and yes for input selection (there are 5 separate buttons).

I'm guessing there is discreet on/off buttons that are just not on the stock remote control. Perhaps this is what Steve was talking about. I don't have any experience with other remote controls but it seems possible the set might recognize several signals.

egiro

03-24-05, 01:30 AM

pbenjamin, thanks for going out to your garage in the middle of the night!!

45X30X16 will go though the trunk pass-through to the back seat, laying down. there's a Lowe's on the way so I'll hop in and inquire about the hourly truck rental.

Also, is there a web link somwehere for the manual? I have the pdf for the 434, but can't turn up anything on the web on the 4304.

Thanks again to all

kenlong

03-24-05, 09:21 AM

I CONTACTED PIONEER YESTERDAY VIA E MAIL RE: THE POWER SUPPLY ISSUE.
THEIR FIRST COMMUNIQUE, 11/22/04, INCLUDED THE 4304 MONITOR AS ELIGIBLE FOR THE PS UPGRADE. THE MOST RECENT POST ON THEIR WEBSITE RE: POWER SUPPLY REPLACEMENT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE 4304.

YOU'LL NOTE THAT A FEW EARLIER POST'S SHOW RECENT BUILD DATES ON THE MONITOR CARTON OF FEB. 2005. (MINE INCLUDED)

THE RECENTLY BUILT 4304'S HAVE THE UPGRADED PS BOARD.

REGARDLESS, I WAS PLEASED BY THE WAY PIO HANDLED THE ISSUE.

waltaz

03-24-05, 11:03 AM

First of all, egiro, I don't think the plasma should be laid on it's side for transport. I ended up ordering mine from costco.com because the local stores didn't have any and paid $199 for "white glove" delivery. It the local store had had it, I would have rented a truck at Home Depot for $19.95.

Moderator - What do you think about merging this thread with the "Pio 4312 Settings and Tweaks" thread?

robglasser

03-24-05, 11:19 AM

kenlong,

Thank you for posting your settings both in the normal menus and the service menu. I applied them last night, dialing back the color and constrast a bit and it's like watching a whole new TV. It looks wonderful. I loved the TV before, now I really love it.

Thanks

Rob

yobob

03-24-05, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by egiro
45X30X16 will go though the trunk pass-through to the back seat, laying down. there's a Lowe's on the way so I'll hop in and inquire about the hourly truck rental.

What's the condition of the roads you will be traveling on?

If that box is laying on its side, and you hit a bad bump, you might find some shattered glass when you unpack it at home! And because you did the transport yourself, you will be out of luck.

xmltok

03-24-05, 12:05 PM

I carried my set on its back in my BMW for over 30 miles, I kept on the best streets and lanes I could. I had no padding and my car has a stiff suspension, the set made it fine. I think you would have to hit a pretty hard bump to do damage to the glass. Anyway I am not recommending it, Just saying that I have done it.

yobob

03-24-05, 01:03 PM

I have an S-Runner, has very stiff suspension. The speed bumps on my street tend to loosen my fillings unless I take them at a "slow walk." :D

If I could get a box behind the seats standing up I might try it. But I'm not sure I would try transporting one standing up in the bed.

Also, the larger the panel, the more susceptible to "gravity damage" if transported laying down.

kdb209

03-24-05, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by yobob

quote:Originally posted by egiro
45X30X16 will go though the trunk pass-through to the back seat, laying down. there's a Lowe's on the way so I'll hop in and inquire about the hourly truck rental.

What's the condition of the roads you will be traveling on?

If that box is laying on its side, and you hit a bad bump, you might find some shattered glass when you unpack it at home! And because you did the transport yourself, you will be out of luck.

I would advise against transporting it on it's side if you can help it.

Over on the Dell W4200HD thread there were some QC issues and displays failing with vertical lines of dead (or single color) pixels. A Dell Rep posted and blamed them on their shipping company disobeying instructions and shipping them on their side - apparently just the flex stress on the glass damaged the pixel structures.

Yes, since this is Costco, if those kinds of defects show up, you might have recourse to return it, but if you hit one bump and crack the glass, You probably will be out of luck.

Also, when I picked mine up from Costco, they specifically told me to load it upright, both the red vest guy who helped me load it onto the flat cart and the loading crew who helped me take it outside and into my rent-a-truck. When I was talking to a manager (those red vest guys) about the Vizio raincheck (I finally opted for the Pio instead), he explicitly told another customer that the sets had to be transported upright, and they would not help a customer load it flat.

So, I think the bottom line is - it's a good bit of insurance to shell out the $20-$40 for a Home Depot/Lowes/Budget truck on a $3K investment.

pbenjamin

03-24-05, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by waltaz
Moderator - What do you think about merging this thread with the "Pio 4312 Settings and Tweaks" thread?

If you do, drag in the "Pio at Costco" thread too (or put all of this stuff there.)

kenlong

03-24-05, 03:15 PM

ROB;

I'VE LEARNED SO MUCH FROM READING THIS FORUM AND THE HI DEF FORUM THAT IT'S GRATIFYING TO KNOW I HELPED!!

WATCHING THE TPC FROM SAWGRASS, NOT EVEN A TRUE HD BROADCAST, WITH WIDE SCREEN TO ELIMINATE BARS.

THE OVERSEEDED RYE GRASS SPARKLES!

I READ A REVIEW OF THE PANNY'S VS. THE PIO'S, BY THE GUY WHO DID MY CALIB. IN THE ATL. AREA.
IT/HE SAID, IF YOU LIKE SPORTS IN 720P (ESPN HD, FOX, ABC) YOU CAN'T BEAT THE PIO. PIO'S COLORS ARE SUPERB. SPORTS ARE B'CAST WITH FEWER DARK SCENES.
CONVERSY, IF DARK SCENES IN MOVIES ARE MORE IMPORTANT, CAN'T BEAT THE PANNY'S BLACKS.

COLLEGE/PRO FOOTBALL-NCAA'S/THE MASTERS ARE ALL WHY I CHOSE THE PIO, TO SAY NOTHING OF PEACE OF MIND DEALING WITH COSTCO.

THANKS FOR THE REPLY

KEN

wi2west

03-24-05, 06:01 PM

Does any of you gentlemen know where I can get an adapter that would let a component cable plug into the D-15 SUB RGB input?

TIA,
Simon

egiro

03-24-05, 06:45 PM

OK Guys,

Done the deed... I'ts been on for just a few minutes, and wanted to post thanks to all who helped me make the decision!

See pix of preliminary setup. SHOHD, Compo input, Motorola 4312 set at 720P

Also, for the poster who asked about the cables, eBay, eBay, eBay. Last night I ordered a 6ft HDMI M/M for less than $12 shipping included, and last week I bought 2 sets of component + Toslink cables, 3ft, for less than $21. They looked to be the same maker as what Comcast uses in their installs.
I have found all sorts of D-sub to component, DVI to HDMI, etc, by searching. Happy Hunting!

Thegov3

03-24-05, 08:00 PM

Regarding the transport of the screen on its side....No, No No. I heard the same thing from the Costco rep that others did. They do not help load it flat and advise against taking it home on its side due to screen pixel issues.

egiro

03-24-05, 11:17 PM

Indeed the Costco guy who helped me with the unpacking and loading, told me it had to go vertically. It wound up travelling home on the backseat in its foam filler cubes.

I can see no damage, and so far the PQ is great out of the box. Will tweak later...:D

vg92

03-25-05, 08:42 AM

egiro, I see your plasma is sitting on a cart without the speakers. How about mounting it over the fireplace? Just had mine mounted last week and the wife admits it looks good even when turned off. :)

pbenjamin

03-25-05, 09:58 AM

If we're posting pictures, here is mine:

http://members.cox.net/pbenjamin/img/DSC01073c.JPG

yobob

03-25-05, 10:24 AM

How do you like your Bose sound?

pbenjamin

03-25-05, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by yobob
How do you like your Bose sound?

I am no audiophile, but they sound great to me.

waltaz

03-25-05, 11:19 AM

Yo fellow Pio 4312 owners (and lurkers) - the best, most sensible deal out there...:D

Re my settings:
I had originally gone with what wabkab posed, which seemed pretty good for Input 2 (HDMI), but a little dark on Input 5 (DVD via component). Sat down last night during the NCAA games (CBS HD) with all my manuals and printed out threads and went with kenlong's settings for Inputs 2 and 5.

Also, and I think this is key for DVD via component, I changed my Sony 775 DVD setting for Black (or whatever it is called) to 'On' from 'Off.' More on that in a minute.

I am not using the Pio speakers; rather, I am running the audio from both the STB and my DVD player to an optical switch via digital optical Toslink cables, then to my Sony HTIB Dream System amp also via Toslink. I switch based on watching STB or DVD content. The amp only has one digital audio input (Toslink) and no digital coax.

Observations:
- The basketball court floor on Input 2 looked a little too bright and I thought people looked a little too light, so I backed the contrast down to +8 or 9.
- Jury's still out on Input 2 - I need to watch it a bunch more and fiddle with it to see if I'm OK with the rest of the settings.
- DVD on Input 5 via component looked better. kenlong's settings just about matched perfectly with the settings derived from the THX Optimizer on The Incredibles DVD.
- I was able to see "blacker than black," which I hadn't been able to see before. If I'm understanding this correctly, this is when you can see the "shadow" under 'THX' in the THX Optimizer, in addition to the darker grey/black boxes on the calibration screen. I think that was due to changing the DVD player setting on Blacks.
- I tried running DVE for calibration a few nights ago, but didn't do too well with it because the menu system sucks and I couldn't see "blacker than black." I will try again as the black issue looks like it's mitigated.
- I watched the first two hours of "24 - Season 1" last night and the PQ on Hour 1 wasn't very good - wierd effects on the faces and some shimmering in the backgrounds. Hour 2 on the same DVD seemed better.
- Re audio, if I set the STB audio to 'HDMI', I get decent stereo, but not 5.1, sound through to my sound system. If I set it to Dolby Digital, I get 5.1 sound (was having problems with this until Cox put a signal amplifier on) but it is at a reduced level and the center channel is relatively low. Though I had sneaker squeaks from all around while watching hoops.

Questions:
- Other owners, please post your settings and provide feedback!
- Re calibration, DVE or THX Optimizer or whatever obviously calibrates the DVD component input, but how do you really calibrate the HDMI input? And how do you do that for both HD and SD signals?
- What do you think about using Input 3 or 4 (I forget which is which) for SD via S-video? Has anybody tried that? What is your experience and what are your settings?

Also, I will post pix soon; hopefully this weekend.

Walt

plasmatime

03-25-05, 11:46 AM

Every input allows you to turn CTI on and off, but I am still not clear on what it does. The manual doesn't say much about it either. Any insight on this?

Also, for the guy looking for the D-sub cables, there are plenty of good deals on these just search for "vga to component cables" on google.

CTI-- what is it?

No geometry, sucks b/c it seems the overscan is pretty high, at least using the HD Net test pattern. How is overscan for everyone else?

Also, SD via s-video as opposed to HDMI or component looks better in most cases. If you have a box with multiple outs, hook up the s-vid and compare.

Keep up the good work, this forum continues to be an education.

egiro

03-25-05, 02:30 PM

vg92, at the moment my setup is temporary to get a feel for the plasma, play with controls, etc. Above my fireplace, I feel would be too high, as is, unless I changed out the mantel for a smaller scale one tht would better fit my room and would put the plasma at a more comfotable viewing height. I hate having to crane my neck up to watch all the time, and to surf the web, since as of this AM i just hooked up my homebuilt HTPC. My other consideration is a minimalist glass/steel rack to place in front of 2 windows to the right of the current cart. I'm not fond of corner placement, and I have on other blank walls on which to mount he set and place a credenza/shelf system underneath the screen.

pbenjamin, congrats on the setup, nice classy stand/credenza and practical gear storage to boot!

As for tweaking, I have tentatively played around with altering contrast and brightness and color temp then gone back to zero. That worked well for my viewing of 2001, a DVD i had kept unplayed for 2 yrs, waiting for someting decent to watch it on. It was great, excellent transfer with 5.1 sound, and so worth the wait. I watched cmpletely stock, all settings on zero, including my own, um, internal settings ;)

Which thread are kenlong's and other's settings posted on?? I've looked at settings and tweaks and can't find any individual's settings.

Thanks again for all the advice.

gocubsgo

03-26-05, 10:49 PM

Hello- Great forum. Before I go buy this on Monday I have a quick question? How is the picture on a non-digital or high def signal? there still are a few analog channels out there and the DLP sets I looked at were terrible when viewing analog signals. I hope this is better. Let me know.

thanks

TQM

03-27-05, 12:40 AM

I'm still very undecided:confused:

I found a Pioneer 4340HD (may be the display unit - didn't ask) at a local B&M for about three to four hundred less than the 4312 at Costco - Which one would you recommend??

kdb209

03-28-05, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by gocubsgo
Hello- Great forum. Before I go buy this on Monday I have a quick question? How is the picture on a non-digital or high def signal? there still are a few analog channels out there and the DLP sets I looked at were terrible when viewing analog signals. I hope this is better. Let me know.

thanks

The picture quality I've seen on SD programming (4:3 SD DirecTV) is actually pretty good - better than I expected - but it still depends on the quality of the source. Some channels look great, others, well not so. Some channels come across as near DVD quality, others show definite compression artifacts, but I think that is more of a statement of DirecTV's bandwidth choices rather than the PQ of the Pioneer.

The set looks stunning with DVDs (especially after I upgraded to the Panny S97 upconverting DVD player over HDMI) and HD.

Also keep in mind that this set is a monitor with no tuners, so to receive analog channels, you will need to use some sort of external tuner - VCR (for standard analog cable), cable set top box (for analog, digital and HD cable), satellite receiver (digital and HD satellite), or OTA HD receiver (for OTA HD broadcasts).

As far as SD PQ goes, this set is much better than the two other HD displays I test drove - the Costco Vizio 42" HD plasma and a Samsung 46" DLP (HLP-4663). The overall PQ and the zoom/stretch modes were much better than the Vizio and the PQ was definitely better than the Sammy, although my comparisons were for digital only SD (DirecTV), since I don't have analog cable.

yobob

03-28-05, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by kdb209
Also keep in mind that this set is a monitor with no tuners, so to receive analog channels, you will need to use some sort of external tuner - VCR (for standard analog cable), cable set top box (for analog, digital and HD cable), satellite receiver (digital and HD satellite), or OTA HD receiver (for OTA HD broadcasts).

As far as SD PQ goes, this set is much better than the two other HD displays I test drove - the Costco Vizio 42" HD plasma and a Samsung 46" DLP (HLP-4663). The overall PQ and the zoom/stretch modes were much better than the Vizio and the PQ was definitely better than the Sammy, although my comparisons were for digital only SD (DirecTV), since I don't have analog cable.

Saw it again this past weekend at Costco in Tucson. There were several in stock. Really nice. Also, it had the best looking PQ of all the sets on the shelf IMO, including the 42PA25, which was also in stock.

But as you said, no tuner. Unfortunately that takes it out of the running for me. I want something I can move around and "plug in" anywhere in my house other than my HT room.

BTW, after seeing it, the wife is beginning to change her preference for silver vs black bezels. It's a great looking set! :)

Coolmjr

03-28-05, 02:42 PM

Hi All;

Does the 4312 come with a wall mount kit?? If not which one are people using?? Does Costco carry it or where would you get one?? Which One??

Thanks

-Joe

godai

03-28-05, 03:30 PM

No it only comes with a table stand.

vg92

03-29-05, 08:59 AM

I bought a Sanus VMPL50B (black, to match the panel color) from B&H Photo. Costco (online only) has the VMPLB but personally I like the VMPL50 for a 43" display. Both are tilt mounts and fit the 4312.

SteveHoltam

03-29-05, 12:32 PM

Walmart is supposed to have a Plasma wall mount stand that works well. I have a few months until I move into my new house, so I would be curious on how others are hanging thier sets. Currently I have my 4312 sitting on a 10 year old fake wood $20 O'Sullivan TV stand!

Steve

pbenjamin

03-29-05, 02:16 PM

I have the Sanus VMSAb. It tilts and swivels. Very pleased with it.

Thegov3

03-30-05, 12:40 AM

Pio 4312 now hung above fireplace. PQ is good....photography skills are not. 4312

vg92

03-30-05, 08:51 AM

Here comes mine...

waltaz

03-30-05, 12:29 PM

Here's my setup:
- Cox HD service
- SA8300HD STB video out to Pio 4312 via HDMI
- STB audio out to optical switch via optical digital Toslink
- Switch to Sony HTIB amp/receiver via optical digital Toslink
- I am not using the Pio's speakers
- (I am also running my DVD video to the Pio via component and the DVD audio to the switch via Toslink)

I know that I have to set the STB audio to 'Dobly Digital' to override the HDMI audio, which will default to 2-channel. This forces 5.1 sound to the optical audio out. This issue has been discussed previously.

Here are my two questions:
- If I go to a music channel (933, for example), all is well as long as the plasma display is ON. If I turn the display OFF, the audio continues for up to a minute, then shuts off. Why would that happen? Shouldn't the audio being output to the receiver be separate from the video being output to the display, particularly if I set the sound to 'Dolby Digital,' or even 'Analog'? My wife would like to listen to digital music for long periods of time, but I don't want the display staying on one static image.
- When the STB audio is set to 'Dolby Digital,' the volume of the audio that is output to the receiver is relatively low. The receiver display shows 'Dobly Digital.' If I switch it back to 'HDMI,' the volume increases quite a bit. The receiver display changes to 'Pro Logic.' Why does the volume level change?

Any thoughts? Thanks,

Walt

waltaz

03-30-05, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by waltaz

- Other owners, please post your settings and provide feedback!
- Re calibration, DVE or THX Optimizer or whatever obviously calibrates the DVD component input, but how do you really calibrate the HDMI input? And how do you do that for both HD and SD signals?
- What do you think about using Input 3 or 4 (I forget which is which) for SD via S-video? Has anybody tried that? What is your experience and what are your settings?

...to the above questions.

Tx,

Walt

egiro

03-30-05, 04:57 PM

waltaz,

Regarding your loss of volume when using the digital input on your Sony HTIB, this is normal, as digital signals will have a different signal level than analog signals. This is also the case with purely digital signals, Dolby Digital bitstream out will, depending on the source, have a different level than a PCM digital out. I don't know how your STB will output audio through HDMI, I suspect it is as PCM, which is why your Sony HTIB displays the surround mode as Pro Logic. In any case this is minor, just turn up the volume!

What's strange is your loss of signal after you turn off the monitor. Experiment by using a component or S video out of yout STB to the Pio4312, while leaving the optical digital out from the STB to the Sony HTIB intact, and see if the problem recurs.

If it only happens when you're using the HDMI out of the STB to the monitor, then maybe the problem is that the HDMI hookup senses the power to the monitor, and when you turn the monitor off, the audio times out and shuts down. Maybe this is the way your STB is programmed, or maybe this is a feature of the HDMI interface. Sorry I can't provide more than this theoretical help, as I am not using the HDMI interface at the moment.

waltaz

03-30-05, 05:30 PM

Thanks, egiro, good input.

Walt

gmwedding

03-30-05, 06:25 PM

waltaz wrote:
- What do you think about using Input 3 or 4 (I forget which is which) for SD via S-video? Has anybody tried that? What is your experience and what are your settings?

After much complaining during the past week about poor standard defintion cable TV reception on a new plasma HDTV (a very good Pioneer PDP-4312 package from Costco consisting of a PDP-4304 monitor with speakers and stand), Comcast sent out two in-house technicians to work on our installation AND a Call Center supervisor to observe and provide feedback for improving the customer service experience. I get the feeling Comcast genuinely is trying to improve the initial HD experience for customers and this crew was very professional and helpful. I think that at least in the Sacramento area, the company may be receiving a fair number of complaints about HD installations, and (at least in part), the problems may be based on two issues we have encountered:

- The Motorola DCT-6400 and 6412 STB/DVRs do a very poor job of processing NTSC (480i) SD video.
- In Sacaramento, Comcast currently relies on sub-contractors with inadequate training to do most HD installs. Comcast is working to improve training for these sub-contractors, and eventually, to expand their internal work force so that all installations are performed by company techs, but many seem to lack the training right now to do a trouble-free HD install. I was told (by one of the subs) that they are paid by the job and so naturally, they tend to have to rush through the work, which doesn't help. They have been out to our house at least three times, always trying to get in and out in just a few minutes. If true, clearly this problem must be placed at the feet of Comcast management — it's a very bad idea to pay for this work by the job.

Unfortunately, the sub-scontractors keep dropping the ball on some basic HDTV setup steps, and equipment failures haven't helped either. For instance, the sub-contractors did the initial HD settop box install, but left us with unwatchable SDTV. In a test, the picture on an SD set connected to the new Motorola STB was far worse than it had been with the old (digital) STB! In a second visit, they had to replace a failing settop box (I don't recall why). During a third visit, I told two sub-contractors who responded that my replacement STB/DVR was not always recording when programmed. Two were here for this visit, and they tried to tell me the DVR wouldn't record HD (not true), never even checking out the Motorola box (Three days later, other DCT-6412 features started failing on this same box). To try and resolve my complaint about poor SD quality, these same techs disconnected the component video connection I had made from my DVD player to the HD display, and tried to get me to use the less capable composite video cable for the DVD (because they wanted to use the Component cables for the HD input — our plasma TV has just one component input). In doing this, they were ignoring the fact that we had an excellent HD signal using an HDMI cable and they didn't seem to understand the difference between component and composite video. I politely asked them to switch the cables back to the way I had it set up, and called Comcast support to complain after they left. Comcast was very apologetic, and offered to send someone out again.

Yesterday, better trained Comcast employees arrived. They replaced the STB/DVR, and acknowledged that the the Motorola DCT-6412 has problems delivering a good 480i signal. To compensate for the DCT-6412's shortcomings, they used a splitter to run a coax cable from the wall directly to our old VCR, and connected this to one of the plasma TV's inputs using our only other connection option - a composite cable (my VCR had no component or S-Video output). Surprisingly, even this setup proved to be better than allowing the Motorola DCT-6412 to process the NTSC video signal. Now, if I really want to watch an SD channel, I can choose to view it through the Motorola STB/DVR, or temporarily switch TV inputs (using the Pioneer remote) and watch a better (but not perfect) 480i signal through the VCR cabling and tuner. Switching inputs and then remotes (and remembering how to do all this) is a hassle, but it does work. My guess is that if our VCR had S-video or component video output, the NTSC signal on the HDTV would be even better. Kudos go to this Comcast crew for acknowledging and explaining the issues and problems, clearly communicating the setup options and suggesting an innovative solution. They did all they could to improve the service.

I've read that a good quality line doubler will improve the SD signal to an HDTV set, but I think the prices for these devices may start at about $300, and some are much higher. With precious few programming updates or information coming from Comcast or other cable and satellite providers on how long we'll be stuck with analog SD signals from their sources, it's impossible to gauge whether this would be a worthwhile investment for a consumer. If we have to live with the reduced SD quality on the majority of channels for a year or even two, it's probably not worth the investment. But if the transition from SD to HDTV is going to stretch out over the next five years, a line doubler that really works may be worth considering. Customers need guidance from their service provider to evaluate this, or perhaps the service providers should be offering a good quality line doubler to customers on an interim basis. After all, the cable and satellite providers are increasing rates even as SD service quality is degrading during this the transition to HD. It doesn't seem right that customers should be paying the same, or higher fees for a lower quality standard defintion service.

As I review this process, I see the new reality as this: After watching HDTV on a 43-inch screen for just a week, the enlarged, standard definition (480i) picture in this setup is now better after Comcast's last visit, but still noticeably inferior to our old picture on a standard, 32-inch Sony CRT. Of course, the picture is being enlarged and this accounts for some of the degradation I see. But not all of it. The quality of the signal being fed to the HDTV set matters, but only up to a point. In Sacaramento, the SD signal quality seems to vary widely from channel to channel — some are acceptable, others are no better than blurry, over-the-air TV from 20 years ago. This may mean that many brodcasters are not delivering a clean signal to Comcast, or that the composite video connection out of our VCR is degrading the signal, or that both are factors.

No matter. As a result of this experience of just one week with HDTV, we've already changed our habits and dramatically curtailed our use of SDTV. Instead, we now are watching more DVD movies and the few HD channels that are available. This should communciate something to Comcast along with broadcast and cable channel advertisers.

Already, we seldom bother with SD channels and about the only thing we really miss are local and national news (CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSN, Fox and CNBC) and of course, Jon Stewart on Comedy Central. Most local stations and networks do not yet gather news with HD cameras or even broadcast HD signals for the studio. But Leno is in HDTV, Letterman is coming this fall, and most prime time network programming is now produced in HD.

Of course, HDTV brings a dramatic, theatrical quality to prime time television dramas like 24. Along with a bigger screen, it makes watching television feel special again. HDTV is so mesmerizing that we'll almost always choose an HD over an SD channel with what is now reduced SD picture quality. We've even found ourselves watching many nature shows on Discovery HD and a lot of sports (even high school basketball tourneys from some unknown U.S. city and state), which are being offered on Comcast HD, I'm sure because the broadcast rights are free.

HDTV is compelling and seductive, and once you experience it and get the 'bug', there may be no looking back at SDTV. In our case, it has been a real hassle to get standard defintion to work properly on an HDTV set, and we have resigned ourselves to receive "a somewhat acceptable but not improved SD picture quality" on some channels with the HDTV set. We may ask Comcast for a credit since the level of service has decreased, but I don't really expect them to be able to do anything, or even be able to offer a quick fix, given the technology in their current settop boxes.

For now, we've settled on the SD setup described above, or we just watch SD on one of four analog Sony Trinitron TVs (32", 25" and 13") that remain connected to older cable boxes scattered around the house. We have launched a daily vigil in which we are constantly on the lookout for interesting HD content. We can only hope that content owners and broadcasters will now reach programming agreements and accelerate the adoption of HDTV technology.

kdb209

03-30-05, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by waltaz

Here are my two questions:
- If I go to a music channel (933, for example), all is well as long as the plasma display is ON. If I turn the display OFF, the audio continues for up to a minute, then shuts off. Why would that happen? Shouldn't the audio being output to the receiver be separate from the video being output to the display, particularly if I set the sound to 'Dolby Digital,' or even 'Analog'? My wife would like to listen to digital music for long periods of time, but I don't want the display staying on one static image.

Any thoughts? Thanks,

Walt

My guess would be that the STB is periodically checking the handshake on the HDMI connection. When it detects that the remote device has been turned off, it disables both the HDMI video out and the digital audio out - it's not a bug, it's a feature. If it checks every minute or so, you'ld see the behavior you describe.

waltaz

03-31-05, 12:17 PM

Regarding gmwedding's post above, we also have a Pio 4312 and are very pleased with the SD PQ. Generally, it is about the same or somewhat better than before on a 35" Mits CRT. Some channels are slightly worse.

We have digital and HD cable service from Cox in Phoenix with an SA8300HD STB. The Cox service is very good and the STB is excellent - both key issues towards getting good PQ.

I also want to add to the point about changed viewing habits. I used to flip through all sorts of different digital cable channels. I don't do that any more - I flip through the HD channels looking for HD stuff to watch. It is breathtaking to watch HD content on a good HD display. I could - and do - sit there for hours watching surfing, desert plants, the 2004 Olympics (inHD) or whatever and thoroughly enjoy it. Much more so than channel-surfing the SD channels. Two nights ago, there was a documentary on PBS HD about the earthquake and tsumani on Dec. 26 - just awesome in HD.

Walt

gongura

04-01-05, 04:05 PM

My Pio experience so far:

1. MOUNTING:

Wall mounted my Pio over the fireplace (will add the pictures shortly). Initial excitement somehow was shortlived once I saw the gap between the wall and the Pio (used the Sanus VMLP that I got from Costco.com). Not sure if I can substitute the tilt rails that Sanus has with flatter rails (don't need tilt) and reduce the gap between the Pio and the wall. Appreciate advice/comments here.

2. Connected my existing Dish 311 receiver to INPUT 3 (S-Video). PQ in wide/Zoom/Cinema/Game and Full mode is nowhere near my 15 year old Sony. Checked the settings posted here and changed settings to USER, Contrast - 6, Brightness -5, Sharpness -2, Tint 0, Mpeg NR to ON, Color Temp to Low, DNR to MID. Still PQ is far from improved. What am I doing wrong. Agreed having a HD receiver and HDMI will greatly improve PQ but the least I should match the PQ of my Sony for SD signals (given that I connected my Sony with a composite video!). Is there anything I can do to imrove SD PQ?

3. Connected my new Samsung ($99 at local Costco which I thought was good price for a HiDef DVD player. Comes witha DVI and since the 4304 does not have a DVI input I need to get a HDMI/DVI conversion cable. But for now connected the DVD to my A/V receiver using Optical cable and used a composite to connect the video out to the Pio. Popped in MI-2 DVD, honestly I was not impressed. Had to rush to work so stopped it there. Will get the component cables on my way home (plan to use the Pio's HDMI to connect my HD receiver once I get it from Dish). Could not set the Contrast/Brightness with the composite Video (forgot which INPUT # it was, must be 4 )

Will work on the ISF settings from kenlong and others tonight. Guessing once I get the HDr receiver and the component cables for the DVD hings will improve

RandyM9

04-01-05, 04:25 PM

gmwedding-

I find that even during non "prime time" viewing hours, if I tune to the HD channel of the broadcaster (abc, nbc, cbs, fox, etc.) I get a better picture than from the local channel carrying the same content. I'm not sure if this is because the signal is digital vs analog or what, but the SD picture is significantly better on the HD channel. This makes watching the local networks in SD much more tolerable.

BTW, Comcast, NJ, SA8000HD DVR, component out to Pio 5004. I use the component output from the STB for all my TV signals. Not using any other tuner or input.

Maybe you've already tried this, but if not...

Hope you get it sorted out.

-Randy

robglasser

04-01-05, 05:15 PM

In regards to #2. What size is your 15 year old Sony? Is it also a 43"+ TV? If not I'm not suprised you don't like the picture quality. You've just amplified all the garbage in the picture. You can minimize the issue with tweaking the picture but sorry, SD doesn't look as soon on a new HD TV as it does on a smaller older CRT. Going to a HD Receiver, with a digitial output, i.e. a Dish 811, 921, etc ... does help some, but don't get your hopes up too high. I find that SD content in 4:3 mode on my Pioneer 4312 looks pretty much the same as it does on my neighbors Sony 36" XBR HD CRT. We both see the same compression artificats and flaws in the picture. Take some time to dig up the ISF settings from kenlong in this thread, they did help with picture quality all around. I did tone back the contrast and color from what he had though.

3. As for that Samsung 841 DVD player you bought. It's a piece of garbage. Sorry but it is. I know there are some people out there that like it but I tried 2 different ones and found it's Black crush issues to much to handle so I returned it, bought a plain old Sony progressive scan DVD player (775), hooked it up to the component input on the Pioneer and have been much happier with picture quality.

Originally posted by gongura
My Pio experience so far:

1. MOUNTING:

Wall mounted my Pio over the fireplace (will add the pictures shortly). Initial excitement somehow was shortlived once I saw the gap between the wall and the Pio (used the Sanus VMLP that I got from Costco.com). Not sure if I can substitute the tilt rails that Sanus has with flatter rails (don't need tilt) and reduce the gap between the Pio and the wall. Appreciate advice/comments here.

2. Connected my existing Dish 311 receiver to INPUT 3 (S-Video). PQ in wide/Zoom/Cinema/Game and Full mode is nowhere near my 15 year old Sony. Checked the settings posted here and changed settings to USER, Contrast - 6, Brightness -5, Sharpness -2, Tint 0, Mpeg NR to ON, Color Temp to Low, DNR to MID. Still PQ is far from improved. What am I doing wrong. Agreed having a HD receiver and HDMI will greatly improve PQ but the least I should match the PQ of my Sony for SD signals (given that I connected my Sony with a composite video!). Is there anything I can do to imrove SD PQ?

3. Connected my new Samsung ($99 at local Costco which I thought was good price for a HiDef DVD player. Comes witha DVI and since the 4304 does not have a DVI input I need to get a HDMI/DVI conversion cable. But for now connected the DVD to my A/V receiver using Optical cable and used a composite to connect the video out to the Pio. Popped in MI-2 DVD, honestly I was not impressed. Had to rush to work so stopped it there. Will get the component cables on my way home (plan to use the Pio's HDMI to connect my HD receiver once I get it from Dish). Could not set the Contrast/Brightness with the composite Video (forgot which INPUT # it was, must be 4 )

Will work on the ISF settings from kenlong and others tonight. Guessing once I get the HDr receiver and the component cables for the DVD hings will improve

gongura

04-01-05, 05:53 PM

Thanks Rob. I thought I should get a better PQ regardless of my screen size up from 27" (old Sony) to 43" since I also used a S-video (had composite on my old Sony). I agree that the garbage gets amplified and will work on the ISF settings.

Did not know that the Samsung 841 was a piece of garbage since I do have the REAL garbage a Sony N360 DVD player that is famous for giving a C:13:0 error from day one!. Reason for the Samsung was that it was offered for $99 at Costco (much less than the $125 CC and BB are charging) and can play all formats.

On the ISF settings I did see the posts here show all the ISF options but the not the values for each of these options. Can someone post what their values are for INDV ADJ, PANEL1, PANEL2 etc.

Thanks again everyone..keep the advice coming. Newbies like me are learning everyday :-))

robglasser

04-01-05, 06:09 PM

The samsung 841 is nortorious for being one of the worst upconverting DVD players on the market, some will argue with you on that, but I've seen a lot more negative posted on the DVD players forum than positive. If you really want an upcoverting DVD player the ones that have gotten better reviews are the upper end Denons, 2910, 3910 (I believe), the Pannasonic S97, and the Sony 975 (though it is prone to tray lock issues). All of these are going to run you $250.00 or more. I decided to spend a $100.00 on a good progressive scan for now and wait for the true HD-DVD/Blu-Ray DVD players and go from there. I too was going from an old non-progressive scan Sony.

I have also attached an html file that I threw together with all the settings that I gathered from kenlongs posts earlier in the thread. It also has the steps for getting into the service menu. It had everything in it that I needed to tweak my display

Originally posted by gongura
Thanks Rob. I thought I should get a better PQ regardless of my screen size up from 27" (old Sony) to 43" since I also used a S-video (had composite on my old Sony). I agree that the garbage gets amplified and will work on the ISF settings.

Did not know that the Samsung 841 was a piece of garbage since I do have the REAL garbage a Sony N360 DVD player that is famous for giving a C:13:0 error from day one!. Reason for the Samsung was that it was offered for $99 at Costco (much less than the $125 CC and BB are charging) and can play all formats.

On the ISF settings I did see the posts here show all the ISF options but the not the values for each of these options. Can someone post what their values are for INDV ADJ, PANEL1, PANEL2 etc.

Thanks again everyone..keep the advice coming. Newbies like me are learning everyday :-))

kenlong

04-01-05, 07:52 PM

Rob/Gongura:
Not sure if I posted this a few weeks ago, regardless, my calibrator pointed out that my DVD player (Samsung P341) showed more jaggies in PS vs IS. PQ is significantly better in IS. He suggested that our 4304/4312 scaler is much better than this particular DVD player.

I too will wait to spend extra for the Blu Ray or HD DVD sometime in the future.

Good luck and enjoy!!

Ken

Thegov3

04-01-05, 11:18 PM

Anyone running a SA 8300 HD DVR with their Pio 4312?

I am having to reboot the 8300 on a regular basis after it locks up while trying to change from a SD channel to a HD channel. It even does it when I change from a 720P to a 1080i channel. It is very intermittent...once or twice in the evening.

When it happens, I can't control it with the remote or even turn off via the unit. I have to unplug it. It mostly does it when I am recording something. I will be flip through the stations fine until...bam. It just freezes up.

Any ideas? It can't be the Pio's up converter causing a problem with the 8300 can it?

I'll post over at the HDTV recorders & Players area just to see if they know if it is the 8300.

pbenjamin

04-02-05, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Thegov3
Anyone running a SA 8300 HD DVR with their Pio 4312?

I am and I don't have these problems. Sounds like you may have a bad DVR, I would suggest swapping it out.

technoreid

04-02-05, 04:31 PM

Using the 43 Pioneer from costco with panny S97S and the picture is great!

Have the setting on the S97 outputting 1080i.... mabye I should change it to 720p??

I do believe the S979S and the 43" Pioneer Costco model are a match for sure!!!!

I never saw DVD look so good.

thanks, tr

technoreid

04-02-05, 04:35 PM

?

would I be able to notice the difference in resolution
between the Costco 43 inch model and the 5040 (Costco Pioneer 50 inch)....???

I have noticed that the resolution for the 43" is 1024 X 768 and the 50" model
is something like 1260 X 768 ......

could I see any difference???? just wondering....

I read somewhere that 1024 X 768 is not "TRUE HD".....

thanks, tr

RandyM9

04-03-05, 07:45 PM

would I be able to notice the difference in resolution
between the Costco 43 inch model and the 5040 (Costco Pioneer 50 inch)....???

Depnds on your viewing distance. Odds are you won't notice the difference.

I read somewhere that 1024 X 768 is not "TRUE HD".....

"True HD" is 1920 x 1080 so very few available sets meet this standard. I have the 50" Pio and the PQ in HD is awesome. Hard to imagine what a "True HD" picture on a "True HD set" would look like!

vg92

04-04-05, 10:41 AM

technoreid, I have the same player hooked up to the 4312 via both HDMI and component (routed through a A/V receiver). Honestly, I couldn't tell a difference between 720p and 1080i on HDMI. Also, the picture looks just as good when sending 480i to component. This makes me believe the internal scaler of the panel is indeed very good if not excellent.

wabkab

04-04-05, 01:02 PM

waltaz,
Now that you settled in on settings somewhat, could you post your settings down the board for your input 5? Kenlong lost me once he got into the service menu.
Thanks

waltaz

04-04-05, 01:07 PM

Two things:
1. I have a Sony 775 DVD player inputting 480i via component into Input 5 and PQ is great. Using kenlong's Input 5 component settings.
2. I have an SA8300HD DVR from Cox plugged into Input 2 via HDMI and have not had any problems. Thegov3 - you likely have a bad DVR.

A settings question:
- Can you folks post your settings for an HD STB inputting to Input 2 via HDMI?

Tx,

Walt

waltaz

04-04-05, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by wabkab
waltaz,
Now that you settled in on settings somewhat, could you post your settings down the board for your input 5? Kenlong lost me once he got into the service menu.
Thanks
wabkab - You posted this while I was responding.

Will do, once I get home and look at it. I am pretty happy with Input 5 but feel that Input 2 needs tweaking. And I have not gone into the service menu - just don't want to go there right now.

Walt

540I

04-04-05, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by vg92

--- snip ---

There is a reset feature which allows you to return to factory settings. I tried that and everything was reset including contrast and sharpness settings on the picture menu.

--- snip

Hi all,

Thanks for the wealth of info. and opinions posted here (and in the
high-def forum) ... helped me take the plunge yesterday and get
the last 4312 package at a nearby Costco! I am eminently satisfied
with the purchase, both performance and value-wise.

vg92, your post is giving me the confidence to try out the posted
ISF settings. I tried a brief setup with the THX Optimizer included
in the Incredibles DVD, and am very happy with the results, but
would like to explore even more options ... I probably will get an
ISF tech. over after a few weeks, but would like to see what is
possible in the meantime.

BUT ... before I go mucking around with the service menu, I would
like to know how to activate the "reset feature" that you talk
about above. Is this some special menu option within the
service menu, or just the "Picture reset" menu option in the
"Picture" menu on every individual input? If it is the former, how
do I use it?

Thanks in advance for any/all answers to this Q ... and thanks to
everyone once again for all the stuff I could glean from this thread!

Cheerio!

bmott

04-04-05, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by RandyM9

"True HD" is 1920 x 1080 so very few available sets meet this standard. I have the 50" Pio and the PQ in HD is awesome. Hard to imagine what a "True HD" picture on a "True HD set" would look like!

I have a dell 2405 24" LCD which has a wonderful 1920x1200 resolution, let me tell you 1080i HD signals from my HD box look INSANE. THEY ARE SO NICE.

Im looking to upgrade my tv soon from a 30" crt wega HDTV, and was considering buying this tv from costco for $3k, or should i just get the 37" BenQ display which has a true 1920x1080 resolution for $2k???

vg92

04-04-05, 04:59 PM

540I, I stand corrected. The 'reset" in the service menu doesn't reset all the settings in the service mode as I found out later. It seems like it does the samething as the 'picture reset' in the picture menu. You may want to wait for a few weeks for an ISF tech. But if you can't wait, make sure copy down all your default settings before changing anything.

RandyM9

04-04-05, 05:32 PM

bmott wrote:

I have a dell 2405 24" LCD which has a wonderful 1920x1200 resolution, let me tell you 1080i HD signals from my HD box look INSANE. THEY ARE SO NICE.

Im looking to upgrade my tv soon from a 30" crt wega HDTV, and was considering buying this tv from costco for $3k, or should i just get the 37" BenQ display which has a true 1920x1080 resolution for $2k???

If you haven't already, check out this thread on the new BenQ

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=523546

You know what they say about opinions...

Ones viewing experience is dependent on source material, viewing distance, AD/DA conversions, scalers, etc. At the end of the day you need to look at all of the displays you can and judge for yourself. What looks good to me might not look good to you and vice-versa.

At my viewing distance (about 14') a 50" PDP with 1280 x 768 native resolution looks stunning with HD material and nearly as good with 480p DVD material. I don't think I've seen a 1920 x 1080 display so I can't honestly give an opinion on it. I can only imagine on the right screen it would look fabulous. But there are a lot of considerations to make in evaluating any display and any resolution.

Go to the B&M stores and view as many displays as you can. If possible, bring your own source material to view. Then weigh all the variables and buy what looks best to you.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong...

wabkab

04-04-05, 09:37 PM

Waltaz,
Looking forward to your settings. I only use component via input 5(Denon 2805 switches everything), so I can't help with HDMI info.

sachinh

04-05-05, 10:46 PM

Am very close to finalizing on the 4312 from Costco and this thread , in particular , has been invaluable in helping me make my decision. Its been quite the nightmare for the last 7-10 days :confused:

But , with costco's return guarantee , coupled with a HD set and mostly good reviews and of course a very competitive price , I'm almost there ... like 98% :)

I'd asked this question elsewhere but was wondering since this is a pseudo-commercial model , is there any chance the power supply can handle 100-240 V or is it only 120 V ?
Also, since a blurb on costco.com says :
"Converts All Signals to 768P First Plasma Capable of 72 Hz Display " , is there any chance this set can handle PAL signals ?
Haven't found the spec. sheet for this set or the 4304 for that matter . I've looked thru' quite a few of the 4312/4304 threads here and elsewhere .

Lastly, I know there's some talk of tweaking settings earlier in this thread but was wondering if it is a general opinion that SD content is quite watchable or is the resultant upconversion quite an ordeal to watch ? I understand that this is very subjective .

I have a TIVO (future: HD-TIVO) , current Comcast HD-STB & soon DVD with DVI capability so guess I need to invest in a new receiver when the HDMI/DVI equipped ones are available :D

Thanks for any answers .

Shopping-TVs

04-05-05, 10:59 PM

I'm also thinking of getting this plasma. For those of you who already own the plasma, how is the reflection on the glass. We are planning to put the plasma directly across a very large window and was wondering how the glare is when watching TV. Thanks.

SteveHoltam

04-06-05, 01:56 AM

sachinh - I cant help you with the tech stuff, but I have had a 4312 for about two months now and am loving it more every day. There is no problem at all with the SD content. It looks fine, and is not an ordeal at all. I have a standard DirecTivo and a HD DirecTivo both hooked to this tv and watch them both all the time.

You will find, like everyone here, that certain SD channels look better then others. (I think the Outdoor Life Channel has the worst picture quality of them all.) Its really up to the provider in how much bandwidth they want to allocate to each channel.

I would suggest you buy this tv asap and start enjoying it. The HD picture quality is AWESOME and will make you proud you bought this set over the others. I spent one day going to every store in town looking at every brand out there, and this 4312 won easily. My eyes told me I was making the right choice, and I still think so to this day. I only wish I could afford the 50 inch now!

Steve

PS
If you happen to be in Sacramento before you buy and want to see SD and HD on this set, PM me and perhaps you could come over for a look-see.

sachinh

04-06-05, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by SteveHoltam
sachinh - I cant help you with the tech stuff, but I have had a 4312 for about two months now and am loving it more every day. There is no problem at all with the SD content. It looks fine, and is not an ordeal at all. I have a standard DirecTivo and a HD DirecTivo both hooked to this tv and watch them both all the time.

You will find, like everyone here, that certain SD channels look better then others. (I think the Outdoor Life Channel has the worst picture quality of them all.) Its really up to the provider in how much bandwidth they want to allocate to each channel.

I would suggest you buy this tv asap and start enjoying it. The HD picture quality is AWESOME and will make you proud you bought this set over the others. I spent one day going to every store in town looking at every brand out there, and this 4312 won easily. My eyes told me I was making the right choice, and I still think so to this day. I only wish I could afford the 50 inch now!

Steve

PS
If you happen to be in Sacramento before you buy and want to see SD and HD on this set, PM me and perhaps you could come over for a look-see.

Thanks, Steve . This is great news . Especially the fact that u have both SD and HDTIVO and are happy with the broadcast signals. I have a TIVO Series 2 hooked uto my cable box and all my channels are imp. not just the SD ones ;)

Esp. given the fact that I found a scaler at Ram Electronics - DVDO Scaler (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVDO.htm) that can handle PAL signals, I think am so close to buying the TV that I can smell the packaging :)

BTW , did you go for the white glove service or do a store pickup ? Addl. 2 year warranty thru' Amex ?

Thanks.

SteveHoltam

04-06-05, 12:19 PM

I purchased mine in store and brought it home myself in the back of my Tahoe. I did have to lay the whole box on it's side, which is sort of taboo, but it didnt hurt anything. If I had known that the TV is in its own box inside of the big box, I think I would have broke open the big outer box so I could have brought the TV home upright.

The big box contains a box with the TV, a box for the speakers, the stand and some extra cardboard packaging. So I suggest if you bring yours home and dont have a truck, seperate the boxes to make it easier on yourself.

Also, this thing is heavy and unless totally unpacked, may require a friends help to move around. A buddy and myself moved the whole kit as one up three flights of stairs and it was rough. If I recall the big box weighs about 100 lbs and the tv itself wieighs about 75lbs.

I didnt opt for any extra warranty and they didnt even offer one.

I have not even read the instructions! Just plugged it in and have been enjoying it since. I will mention that I think the picture improved after a couple of weeks. I dont know why this would be, but I think it did. Af first I was wow, this is a nice tv. Now I feel it looks even much better then it did day one. Maybe someone else had the same feeling?

Steve

waltaz

04-06-05, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Shopping-TVs
I'm also thinking of getting this plasma. For those of you who already own the plasma, how is the reflection on the glass. We are planning to put the plasma directly across a very large window and was wondering how the glare is when watching TV. Thanks.
We have ours in a large great room with big windows to the bright Arizona outside. Glare is a non-issue - no different than our previous CRT TV. Of course, if it's a bright day and you don't have shades or blinds (which you have to in AZ) and you are looking obliquely from opposite the windows, you'll get glare. But you will on anything.

waltaz

04-06-05, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by sachinh

BTW , did you go for the white glove service or do a store pickup ? Addl. 2 year warranty thru' Amex ?

Thanks.
SD is definitely not an ordeal and some are excellent, some suck and many are the same as before.

I ordered from costco.com and got the white-glove shipping and they did a nice job - unpack in your living room (or wherever) and set it up, including stand and speakers. They even helped me move my 35" Mits beast.

sachinh

04-06-05, 02:23 PM

Haven't been able to find a visual/schematic of the 4312 back panel but am guessing that there is no ES Card slot , right ? From what I hear the Pio 4312 is derived from one of the commercial models and hence was hoping that a card slot will be available :)
That way I can just pop in a PDA-5004 and will be all set for expansion and PAL support :D

But since , Costco.com doesn't claim it , am guessing its not there ... why would Marketing not capitalize on this !

xmltok

04-06-05, 02:27 PM

I think there is the slot, I looked it up before and I think the 4304 panel comes with a PDA-5002 installed.

wabkab

04-06-05, 03:15 PM

Waltaz,
Still anxiously awaiting your latest settings so I can try them out.

Thanks

waltaz

04-06-05, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by wabkab
Waltaz,
Still anxiously awaiting your latest settings so I can try them out.

Thanks
Dude...I forgot...hopefully will get to it tonight. Was watching 24 season 1 last night for hours...

sachinh

04-06-05, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by xmltok
I think there is the slot, I looked it up before and I think the 4304 panel comes with a PDA-5002 installed.

Wow, that is really awesome, xmltok ! Is there anyway you can confirm this ?
Firstly , if there is a card slot , that will help put my concerns regarding expansion at rest . Secondly , if it is a PDA-5002 , that is great since it would support PAL OOTB :)
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4183_35060,00.html

If it is not too much trouble , could you pl. check the back panel and confirm that there is an ES card slot . Alternatively, if you can confirm it is a PDA-5002 , that would be great too . The only wierd part is PDA-5002 comes with a DVI connection and I understand that the 4312 comes equipped with a HDMI connection.

Thanks .

kdb209

04-06-05, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by sachinh
Wow, that is really awesome, xmltok ! Is there anyway you can confirm this ?
Firstly , if there is a card slot , that will help put my concerns regarding expansion at rest . Secondly , if it is a PDA-5002 , that is great since it would support PAL OOTB :)
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4183_35060,00.html

If it is not too much trouble , could you pl. check the back panel and confirm that there is an ES card slot . Alternatively, if you can confirm it is a PDA-5002 , that would be great too . The only wierd part is PDA-5002 comes with a DVI connection and I understand that the 4312 comes equipped with a HDMI connection.

Thanks .

I can definitly say that the 4312/4304 does NOT come with a PDA-5002 card. There is no DVI and there is no BNC connectors for composite video.

IIRC, someone on this (or another 4312) thread said that the 4312 had built in HDMI and VGA and used a PDA-5004 for S-Video, Composite, and Component. Looking at the 5004, I think it matches the input terminal configuration on the back of the 4312, but I'm not 100% sure - I can check on that when I get home. Also, there are no slots on the back of the 4312 where cards can be swapped - I beleive the 5004 card (if it is indeed a card and not built in) is in a slot coverred by the back panel, so you would have to open up the set to access it.

And since Pioneer does not advertise upgradable cards for this unit, I'm sure trying a different card in the slot (if it exists) would void the warrantee.

plasmatime

04-06-05, 06:37 PM

On the back for inputs 3 4 and 5

kdb209

04-06-05, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by plasmatime
On the back for inputs 3 4 and 5

I know it sort of looks like one. It could be one or Pioneer could just have cloned the PCB layout for the 5004 onto whatever main board is in the 4312.

Has anyone opened up the back of the unit to confirm this?
Is there a real slot there with a real 5004?

More interesting - if there is, has anyone tried upgrading to any other blades?

sachinh

04-06-05, 07:38 PM

If they have used the 5004 on the 4312 nothing could make me happier :D
That way I know for sure that my set can handle PAL signals , since that is what the product brochure for 5004 claims .

I've sent in a e-mail request for clarification to Pioneer support . Couldn't wait for the response and here's the conversation I had with what seemed like a "fairly knowledgeable" Customer Support person :
Q) Does the 4312 (re-badged 4304 available at Costco) support PAL video signals if I provide this using an external tuner/STB/DVD player,etc. ?
A) No (ouch!) It doesn't since this 4312 set is designed for consumer use in the US alone. Hence only NTSC video signals will be supported .

Q) Are there any ES card slots available on the 4312 ?
A) No. If you need this , you should try the 434-CMX (yeah thanks :( )

Q) I've heard that the 5002/5004 is loaded on this set . Is this true ?
A) No. That is mostly incorrect. If anything , it has been modified for consumer usage and no card has been used . I can transfer you to the Industrial section for more clarififcation (no thanks :) )

Of course , most of you might know this already but I thought I'll make this info. available anyway .

Oh well , looks like I'll need to upgrade to a DVI/HDMI switching receiver when they come out . Damn , its going to be tough convincing the wife ;)

Thanks.

sachinh

04-07-05, 12:22 PM

Yes, that is correct :(
Am hoping this helps those prospective buyers still in the decision-making process .

Having decided , for better or for worse , that Pio 4312 is the one for me , I started calling around . Unfortunately , there were none available in the area close to me . That is , if you exclude the display pieces .
So, Livermore Costco , it was ... They had 3 items in stock and now only 2 :D
It was quite the drive 30-35 miles away but am hoping it was worth it .
The next closest one is in Redding/Fresno/Modesto ... take your pick , or u could pay the shipping charges and wait for a month !

If you want it , then go and get it now . In talking some of the other Costco warehouses , they all maintained that there none on order so it could mean that if they run out (incl. the display pieces) , then they may never get the 4312 again .

Of course , there is the possibility that there will be a better HD set that replaces it ;)

... and now , I need to get me some Component cables and fix the grainy PQ . Hopefully , it doesn't stay as bad as it is now :(

Shopping-TVs

04-07-05, 11:10 PM

I live in Southern California and the 2 closest Costco's to me are out, but did say that tv is an active part number and their systems show new shipments set to arrive in 1-2 weeks. I was talking to one of the employees at Costco and was told that because there is such limited space in the warehouse, they cannot carry all the part numbers at the same time. When the 43" Pioneers sold out, they were replaced with the 50". Now that the 50" is sold out, they will be bringing back the 43". Call your local costco and they will be able to check stock and future shipments at all the local costcos.

waltaz

04-08-05, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by wabkab
Waltaz,
Still anxiously awaiting your latest settings so I can try them out.

Thanks
Sorry for taking so long. Here are my preliminary settings for Inputs 2 and 5. They are based on previous posts in this and other threads. I validated Input 5 with the THX Optimizer on the Incredibles DVD, but still need to run DVE on it. I am pretty happy with it, though. Input 2 still needs work - some content is excellent; some not as great. I am looking for other's Input 2 HDMI settings. I have NOT gone into the service menu and monkeyed with anything.

Anyways, here goes:
Input 2 - HDMI (HD STB)
Contrast +8
Brightness +5
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharpness -2
MPEG NR ON
DNR MID
CTI ON
COLOR TEMP MID
PURE CINEMA STANDARD

Input 5 - Component (DVD)
Contrast +10
Brightness -5
Color -3
Tint 0
Sharpness -2
MPEG NR ON
DNR MID
CTI ON
COLOR TEMP LOW
PURE CINEMA ADVANCED

All in all, I LOVE this display.

Walt

kenlong

04-08-05, 01:04 PM

THEY'RE BACK!! AT LEAST AT THE COSTCO IN MARIETTA, GA.

DRAWING A CROWD TOO.

HAD ONE SET UP NEXT TO THE 37" AQOUS HD LCD.

BLEW ITS DOORS OFF!!

GET EM' WHILE YOU CAN.

KEN

TQM

04-08-05, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by kenlong
THEY'RE BACK!! AT LEAST AT THE COSTCO IN MARIETTA, GA.

DRAWING A CROWD TOO.

HAD ONE SET UP NEXT TO THE 37" AQOUS HD LCD.

BLEW ITS DOORS OFF!!

GET EM' WHILE YOU CAN.

KEN

Also available in Chicago!

wabkab

04-09-05, 12:29 AM

Thanks Walt,
I plugged them in and I'll let you know how they work after I watch for a few days. I assume you keep your Energy Save mode on Standard?
The only thing that is a bit different in my setup is that everything is coming in on input 5(component) as I upconvert/switch :dvd recorder, dvd player prog scan, DTVtivoHD, through a Denon 2805. It probably is a compromise, but it looks very good all around and it makes it easy on the family. One day, I'll probably get curious with the HDMI. I saw a mid priced AVR by Yamaha has HDMI switching. Hmmm? Another mission in progress.

waltaz

04-09-05, 04:56 PM

Particularly if you have an SA8300HD STB. I do, with Cox in Phoenix providing the service.

waltaz

04-09-05, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by waltaz

Input 2 - HDMI (HD STB)
Contrast +8
Brightness +5
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharpness -2
MPEG NR ON
DNR MID
CTI ON
COLOR TEMP MID
PURE CINEMA STANDARD

While watching the Masters today in HD (sort of), I monkeyed with these settings and made the following changes:

Changed Contrast to +2

Changed Brightness to +12

I like this better, for now. More detail in the blacks.

le-penseur

04-10-05, 09:20 PM

Well, I was so keen on seeing how the ISF settings reproduced in post #124 stacked up on my PDP 4304, I acted like a total idiot and made the service menu calibration changes for input 5 (component video) without noting down the factory defaults :( ... and now I have no idea how to get back to them!

If possible, could some kind soul please post the factory defaults for the 4304 (non-ISF-calibrated, that is)? I was planning on using the sample ISF settings as a starting point, and since every set is different, I'd like to have the option of experimenting with the settings without stepping way out of bounds. To make this as easy as possible, I have put together the attached instruction sheet: all you need to do is fill in the "____" fields ... I would be greatly indebted!

[NOTE: I am interested in the settings for only input 5, which is the one I futzed with ... I have seen xmltok's post (#30) on factory settings for the HDMI input (IN 2) already. I have also gone through every post in the "Costco Pio setting tweaks" thread and the "Pio at Costco" threads, to no avail.]

dkaplan21

04-11-05, 11:01 AM

For those of you who have purchased the Pio 4312 from Costco, I am curious to know how many of you are truly happy and impressed with your purchase. I am considering buying the set myself but I have read various mixed reviews in some the forums here on AVS. It sounds like some people really like it, and those that don't are very picky. I know that it won't have the same black levels as some DLPs, however I am more concerned with overall PQ (for both SD and HD). What is the general consensus for this Pio?

waltaz

04-11-05, 11:25 AM

wabkab

04-11-05, 11:28 AM

Ditto

waltaz

04-11-05, 12:01 PM

Tony - Did you try those settings and play with them at all? Did you see my update for Input 2?

wabkab

04-11-05, 12:07 PM

We were out of town all weekend, but I watched half or Apollo 13 on DVD last night and it looks very good, as did my first looks at Disc HD and HDnet. Input 2, I don't use because I switch everything through a denon AVR to component. Is your Energy Saving mode on standard. mode 1, 2 or 3?

robglasser

04-11-05, 12:17 PM

SteveHoltam

04-11-05, 06:48 PM

I think the 4312 is one of the best reviewed plasma sets in this forum. WAY more positive then negatives. I can only remember a few members who opted out of the 4312. More often its they have gone through other models and ended up with this model. The Pio may cost more, but the detailed image is worth more over its competitors to me.

Also, since you would be buying the unit at Costco, you have the abilty to return without fear. My only wish was that I could have afforded the 50 inch version! Otherwise, 100% satisfied...

Steve

sachinh

04-11-05, 07:17 PM

le-penseur

04-11-05, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by dkaplan21
For those of you who have purchased the Pio 4312 from Costco, I am curious to know how many of you are truly happy and impressed with your purchase. I am considering buying the set myself but I have read various mixed reviews in some the forums here on AVS. It sounds like some people really like it, and those that don't are very picky. I know that it won't have the same black levels as some DLPs, however I am more concerned with overall PQ (for both SD and HD). What is the general consensus for this Pio?

It's simply superb in my setting. What really swayed us was seeing HD images on its 50" big brother at a friend's place. I didn't want to go for the 50" since I don't have the viewing distance for it, and the 43" works optimally for me, while also being the first set to come under my self-imposed price cap for one of this size. We were retiring our tired direct-view SD CRT, and thought it was high time to transition to HD (just trying to decide between E* and Comcast HD right now: will probably go with Comcast for now, since after the demise of Voom, the grape-vine is ripe with the rumor of a "significant" anouncement from E* on May 1).

Anyway, our primary reason for getting it was to view DVD movies (neither my wife nor I watch much TV, but that might change with the enticement of HD images, as we've experienced at friends' places). For DVDs through the component input, the enhancement in image quality was stunning. Though not side by side, I have checked out various DLP models, and the Panasonic 42" plasma EDTV that a lot of folks elsewhere in this forum love, and I must say I do like the Pioneer more. Having transitioned from a CRT, the shallow black level initially irked me (the one area where the Panasonic had a definite edge), but you know, I have gotten completely used to it, to the point where even LXG did not faze me last night: I still rejoiced in the incredible details, super smoothness and natural, just-correct color reproduction this set provides. Of course, it helps that it's in an extremely well-lit by day room, and we don't really view anything in very dark conditions even at night. I also paid a lot of attention (and time) to tweaking the set just so, with invaluable help from the "Rich's Method For Achieving A More Realistic Image" thread (sorry, being a newb, can't post URLs yet).

Speaking of which, Rich Harkness' thread on "Steps to a Better NTSC (Cable/Sat) Image On Your Plasma" contains very useful tips on battling with the initially disheartening (especially if you are stepping up from "average"-sized direct-view CRT sets) SD PQ. I now have it tweaked to the extent that digital SD cable signals (for the stronger channels at least) look just fine, and sometimes, better than they have any right to. I think this set has a particularly good and smooth scaler. Of course, be aware that I am an inveterate tweaker, and spent nights experimenting with all kinds of SD signals and settings before I was satisfied with the end results :), but they were certainly worth it!

Bottom line: cannot beat the stellar PQ, top value for money, sheer good looks (even when turned off), and unbelievable overall deal when you throw in Costco's return policy. Get one before, as the title of this thread suggests, they go "bye bye" for real.

le-penseur

04-11-05, 10:29 PM

Thought I read somewhere on this thread (or one of the related 4312 threads) that the color temperature setting of "LOW" on this set most closely approximated 6500K ... but my eyes seem to say that the "MID" setting is the closest (which the manual seems to corroborate, sort of).

Anyone care to chime in with an opinion?

waltaz

04-12-05, 12:22 AM

le-penseur - What are your settings for component and HDMI, if you're using it?

Walt

le-penseur

04-12-05, 02:19 AM

My settings for component video (I'm not using HDMI) on IN 5:

CONTRAST: +2
BRIGHTNESS: -12 (+3)
COLOR: -14 (+2)
TINT: -2
SHARPNESS: +1 (-1/+2)
MPEG NR: ON
DNR: MID
CTI: ON
COLOR TEMP.: MID
PURE CINEMA: ADVANCE (I am sending 480i to the display)
ENERGY SAVE: STANDARD

NOTE:
The numbers in parentheses represent the range of delta adjustments to the set values, applied digitally (as in using my "digits", or fingers, on the remote control :)), while viewing different program material.
Yes, I know the contrast is quite low: I'm intentionally keeping it low for the first 100 hours (I think the black level will improve some when I can set it up to about 10 or 12, and reset the brightness ... I'll wait and see).
The color might be set too low for your taste ... it works good for me for night viewing with good DVD transfers.
As with every subjective matter, YMMV.

BTW, if possible, could I get your take on post #164 :)?

wabkab

04-12-05, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by wabkab
We were out of town all weekend, but I watched half or Apollo 13 on DVD last night and it looks very good, as did my first looks at Disc HD and HDnet. Input 2, I don't use because I switch everything through a denon AVR to component. Is your Energy Saving mode on standard. mode 1, 2 or 3?

wabkab

04-12-05, 11:53 AM

le penseur,
I also did settle on the Mid color temp after looking at the pdp when I first got it. I tried the suggestions such as those recently posted by waltaz and others earlier. I found the black levels did improve some on the Low setting, but the other adjustments may also play a part.

gowens7228

04-12-05, 12:46 PM

le penseur and all!

i have aggregated the ISF calibration settings from this forum and noted the factory settings using le penseur's formatted document. now it is all in one place. enjoy!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:
Numbers before the slash are ISF Calibrated settings for COMPONENT INPUT #5 found on this forum. After the slash are original factory settings for the
same input. This should take < 15 minutes and really is quite easy.

SERVICE MENU:
Make sure the 4304 is first set to the desired input (INPUT 5 in my
case). With the 4304 in STANDBY, press DISPLAY on the remote (just
press, do not hold). Wait 3 seconds, then press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT
and POWER (on the remote). If done correctly, the 4304 turns on and the
INFORMATION page is displayed. Press MUTE to move through the top-level
menus (which are INFORMATION, FUNCTION CHECK, COMMON ADJ, OPTION,
INITIALIZE). Press the DOWN key to move through individual sub-menus.

1. Make sure that the INFORMATION screen shows that the settings are
for INPUT 5 (on the top right, it should show a field beginning with
"IN5-").
NOTE: While scrolling through the submenu settings in the following
steps (e.g., "RY GAIN <=> ..."), use the LEFT/RIGHT
buttons on your remote while scrolling through these fields,
to change the values (if that's what you want to do :-))!

2. Press MUTE to advance to the INDIVIDUAL ADJ. menu.
Cycle through the settings, by pressing DOWN:
RY GAIN <=> : 128/134
GY GAIN <=> : 117/122
BY GAIN <=> : 134/131

3. Press MUTE to advance to the COMMON ADJ. menu; this should show
RGB 1 (+) as the menu item (if it doesn't, UP/DOWN will cycle through
all the choices).
(a) On RGB 1 (+), hit SET to enter the sub menu (COMMON ADJ. will
change to show COMMON-RGB1)
Cycle through the settings, by pressing DOWN:
AD MAIN R GAIN <=> : 187/209
AD MAIN G GAIN <=> : 178/193
AD MAIN B GAIN <=> : 179/194
AD MAIN R OFFSET <=> : 129/127
AD MAIN G OFFSET <=> : 162/162
AD MAIN B OFFSET <=> : 128/128
Press SET to exit.
(b) Press DOWN to go to RGB 2 (+); press SET to enter the sub menu:

AD MAIN CONTRAST <=> : 081/081
Press SET to exit.
(c) Press DOWN to go to PANEL1 (+); press SET to enter the sub menu.
Cycle through the settings, by pressing DOWN (no changes to here):
X-SUS U1 <=> : 128/128
X-SUS U2 <=> : 129/129
X-SUS D1 <=> : 128/128
X-SUS D2 <=> : 128/128
Y-SUS U1 <=> : 128/128
Y-SUS U2 <=> : 129/129
Y-SUS D1 <=> : 128/128
Y-SUS D2 <=> : 128/128
Y-SUS D3 <=> : 128/128
Y-SUS D4 <=> : 128/128
VLT-SUS <=> : 107/107
VLT-OFS <=> : 157/157
Press SET to exit.
(d) Press DOWN to go to PANEL2 (+); press SET to enter the sub menu.
Cycle through the settings, by pressing DOWN:
PANEL R HIGH <=> : 247/241
PANEL G HIGH <=> : 248/249
PANEL B HIGH <=> : 256/256
PANEL R LOW <=> : 508/512
PANEL G LOW <=> : 511/512
PANEL B LOW <=> : 509/512
ABL LEVEL <=> : 117/123
Press SET to exit.

4. Switch unit off (i.e., place it in standby) to exit the service menu.

dkaplan21

04-12-05, 01:08 PM

Thanks everyone for your reviews of the 4312 at Costco. I went ahead and purchased one last night so you can imagine how anxious I am to get it calibrated.

Gowens7228, thanks for your post with the ISF settings for the component input. When your component was calibrated though, what was it connected to? Since I'm planning on using the component for my satellite SD and HD content, will the same ISF settings work? Also, what about ISF settings for the HDMI input (to be used by my upconverting DVD player) and S-Video input (to be use by my Tivo box)?

Sachinh and le-penseur, I tried searching for your suggested posts but only found what was posted at the beginning of this forum.

If anyone else has any recommendations for how to configure the inputs I'd appreciate it.

gowens7228

04-12-05, 01:21 PM

dkaplan21,

i aggregated the ISF settings from others on this forum, particularly kenlong, xmlbot, and wabkab and did not have them calibrated personally. i will use my AV receiver to switch between sources (DVD, Comcast HD STB) and will only use the single component connection on the Pio. hopefully others will be able to help with your questions. good luck!

wabkab

04-12-05, 02:20 PM

I can't take any credit for calibration beyond the main menu. I have been too chicken to even go into the service menu. I've just used and minimally modified settings such as Kenlong's original posts and waltaz's settings. What I have is very, very good. One day, I may get an ISF calibration and/or get off my duff and at least do DVE/AVIA tweaks. Till then, not bad, not bad at all.

drb4all

04-12-05, 02:49 PM

any word on any reductions anywhere in the price on the 5040 at Costco?

SteveHoltam

04-12-05, 03:01 PM

I hate to be a fanboy for the 4312, but last night I had myself a mini marathon of ABC's "Lost" in high definition, and I just had to post how BEAUTIFUL this show looked on this TV. I watched three episodes from my HD Tivo and it was SO nice. The sharpness was incredible.

Another good show that takes advantage of this tv and HD is HBO's Deadwood along with CSI and CSI Miami. With HD and 5.1, I feel like we are living in a glorious era of technology!

Steve

Qsquare

04-12-05, 03:49 PM

4312 box dimension:

Can someone confirm that 45x30x16 is the correct box dimension? I want to know if this will fit in my 2000 Pathfinder. I currently have a Vizio and want to return it to pick up the Pio. The box for the Vizio seems bigger than the one posted for the Pio. Thanks in advance.

wabkab

04-12-05, 04:17 PM

Sorry, I only kept my 4304 box(PDP display only).

pbenjamin

04-12-05, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Qsquare
4312 box dimension:

Can someone confirm that 45x30x16 is the correct box dimension? I want to know if this will fit in my 2000 Pathfinder. I currently have a Vizio and want to return it to pick up the Pio. The box for the Vizio seems bigger than the one posted for the Pio. Thanks in advance.

The inner box, the one that contains the panel itself, is 45x30x16. The outer box contains that plus other boxes with speakers, stand, etc. We fit everthing in a Ford Explorer by unpacking everything from the outer box. We then collapsed the outer box and put it on top of things.

gowens7228

04-12-05, 04:27 PM

wabkab / tony,

Qualifications: I don't know if the Avia or DVE discs would provide you with more confidence or a different calibration for the Component settings than those generated by Kenlong's ISF tech. Quite honestly, I am not even sure if the settings aren't impacted by the source used (ie. exact brand and model of DVD player; DVD vs STB, etc.). Can anyone confirm / deny this?

For Me: All that said, with le-penseur's step by step instructions (which I copied above) changing the settings in the service menu is no harder than adjusting the contrast / color / etc. within the typically accessible menus. It really doesn't take more than 15 minutes in total and the factory settings are also listed above (#'s after the slash) if you decide you don't like something and want to start over. To me, going through the calibration discs may enable you to tailor the set more to your personal tastes (?), but sounds like of allot of work.......

gowens7228

04-12-05, 04:31 PM

wabkab / tony and all:

i certainly am no expert and everything i know about the calibrations i picked up from these forums so if i am incorrect or inaccurate, i hope someone with more expertise will correct me for the benefit of all.

le-penseur

04-12-05, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by gowens7228
le penseur and all!

i have aggregated the ISF calibration settings from this forum and noted the factory settings using le penseur's formatted document. now it is all in one place. enjoy!
--- snip ---

Thanks much ... exactly what I was looking for! Thanks for taking the time.

sachinh

04-12-05, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by Qsquare
4312 box dimension:

Can someone confirm that 45x30x16 is the correct box dimension? I want to know if this will fit in my 2000 Pathfinder. I currently have a Vizio and want to return it to pick up the Pio. The box for the Vizio seems bigger than the one posted for the Pio. Thanks in advance.

Am not sure of the internal dimensions of the Pathfinder but my experience with my Lexus RX 300 was that the entire box will not fit for sure . I don't remember the exact dimensions but I think it was in the beginning of the thread (page #3/4) . Since the Plasma has to stand upright , as per the Costco guys, the only solution was to break open the packaging and then I was able to load the internal box (the 45x30x16 package) just fine .

Good luck :)

SteveHoltam

04-12-05, 06:34 PM

It didnt fit upright in my Tahoe. There is no way its going to fit in your Pathfinder un-opened and upright.

Steve

le-penseur

04-12-05, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by dkaplan21

--- snip ---
Sachinh and le-penseur, I tried searching for your suggested posts but only found what was posted at the beginning of this forum.
--- snip ---

Well, looks like I've progressed past my tenderfoot status, and can post URLs now; here you go:

Rich's Method For Achieving A More Realistic Image (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=261309)
Steps to a Better NTSC (Cable/Sat) Image On Your Plasma (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2865957#post2865957)

IMHO, both these should be required reading, the first for all plasma-ites, the second for all who haven't yet given up watching SD.
Cheerio!

kdb209

04-12-05, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Qsquare
4312 box dimension:

Can someone confirm that 45x30x16 is the correct box dimension? I want to know if this will fit in my 2000 Pathfinder. I currently have a Vizio and want to return it to pick up the Pio. The box for the Vizio seems bigger than the one posted for the Pio. Thanks in advance.

The outer box for the Pioneer is significantly bigger than the Vizio - I considered the Vizio (got the raicheck to delay the decision) but finally went with the Pio. Based on the Vizio and Pio theads here - I'm sure I made the right choice.

Anyway from what I recall the Pio outer box was something like 56" W x 38" H x 26" D.

sachinh

04-12-05, 07:14 PM

I have my 4312 connected to a Comcast HD STB and the only way I know of to turn on CC is to enable it on the CableBox (powering off setting options and power on) .
Is there any other way to do this ? Preferably without powering off the cable box :( . I thought I had read somewhere that the 4312 had a CC decoder built-in but I could be mistaken :confused:

SteveHoltam

04-13-05, 12:40 PM

Good question about the CC.... I have not found it yet either, and I looked around the menus for it. I dont think it has CC, but hope I am wrong. You would think a tv this modern would have the usual CC options, like CC when muted and all that.

Steve

jeffH70

04-13-05, 12:44 PM

For kenlong

Thanks for posting your setting Ken! I wonder if you can post the Ind. Adj. setting for the input 3 (S-Video) as well in the service menu. I think only two entries are allowed to change and one of them should be CVY Gain.

Jeff

wabkab

04-13-05, 12:55 PM

For those who have made the service menu changes, have they made a big difference? My settings via the main menu are incredibly good, so if improvement is obvious I'll look into a real calibration.

robglasser

04-13-05, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by wabkab
For those who have made the service menu changes, have they made a big difference? My settings via the main menu are incredibly good, so if improvement is obvious I'll look into a real calibration.

I thought so. For me they seemed to take away the redish tint I was seeing and overall made for a richer, deeper, more acccurate picture. Give it a shot, if you dont' like it change it back. I think it took me all of about 10 minutes to both note down the defaults and make the changes.

xmltok

04-13-05, 08:26 PM

The service menu changes got rid of the greenish tint I saw in blacks. It was really bugging me watching 24. The color settings look FANTASTIC now. I believe they might be common numbers for all of our sets.

wabkab

04-13-05, 09:33 PM

What post # has the service menu settings having the consensus for PQ? What exactly were these settings based on? Was it really an ISF calibrator?

kenlong

04-14-05, 09:45 AM

Jeff: I only had input 2 and 5 calibrated. I did hook up my s video setting (# 3?) and on certain SD material it may look better than than with input 2. Or it may be my imagination.

Input 3's non calibrated colors are not as robust; I use it occasionally to eliminate SD mosquitoes etc. on certain programming.

A question for all: I have a Comcast 6412 STB/DVR. NBC' s HD broadcasts (PQ) often are not as "crisp" as the other networks. Any one else notice this?

Best PQ is CBS/Fox/HBO (Deadwood) and ABC.

Great forum guys.

Ken

jeffH70

04-14-05, 02:03 PM

Ken,

Thanks for the reply. I messed around the service menu a bit and found a few more places that might be helpful to look into.

The last major main menu, I think it is initialize (the one just before jump back to the 1st page via mute key), when you scroll down, there are quite a few setting for color temperture default RGB setting for low, mid low, mid, mid high and high I believe. I wonder if yours has been changed or not? Further down, there are a bunch of setting in HDMI INTR POSITION menu that you can enter and mess with. I wonder if you can look at those setting and may be that is where input 2 is tuned.

Jeff

gowens7228

04-14-05, 03:44 PM

wabkab:

1) The service menu settings summarized in post #179 were ISF calibrated (per post #9) for kenlong. This post also notes the factory settings (#'s after the slash)
2) These settings are for Input #5 (Component). If I read post #17 correctly, the same exact settings work for Input #2 (HDMI) where applicable. I don't have an HDMI connection, so I have not made any adjustments.
3) The calibrated settings were pulled from Posts #54-57

Best of luck!

wabkab

04-14-05, 04:05 PM

Thanks for the spoon-feeding. One more bite? What post lists the procedure for going in the Service menu and doing the deed?

kenlong

04-14-05, 05:49 PM

Guys, look towards the end of page 3 of this thread where xmltok is talking me thru the service menu. The settings I gave him were what he/you are looking for.

My calibrator said this model will not allow you to adjust geometry, but he liked what he saw regardless.

Has anyone's fan come on? If mine has, it's quiet.

Could I have inadvertently disengaged it while in the service menu?

wabkab

04-14-05, 07:05 PM

Not to my knowledge.

gowens7228

04-14-05, 08:04 PM

wabkab,
le penseur spoon fed me though the procedure. i copied his instructions in thread #179 as well!

kenlong,
i've never heard my fan come on, but i have my standing free on a table as oppossed to installed in a cabinet or hanging close to a wall. i don't think you could have disengaged it since it is a safety feature, but of course i really have no clue what x-sus-D4, etc. really means :-)

dangerousdavid

04-15-05, 10:24 PM

And am very happy. Been lurking for some time. Very pleased with the picture quality. Suspect I will be more pleased next week when the D*TV high def reciever comes. My wife likes it too.

wabkab

04-15-05, 11:48 PM

Suspect I will be more pleased next week when the D*TV high def reciever comes.

Yes you will.

waltaz

04-18-05, 12:57 PM

Hey, is that blue "cloth" that came in a plastic bag in the box for cleaning the glass? I assume it is, but wanted to check. Do you clean it dry, or with anthing?

xmltok

04-18-05, 02:41 PM

I use it dry but I will breath onto the glass if I need to rub something off. Basically I treat it like a lens. I would not use any cleaners on it, and I would avoid getting it very wet.

gongura

04-20-05, 04:43 PM

everything going fine with my Pio (5 weeks since I bought). Did not change the ISF although I have been able to go into the Service menu couple of times. I sometimes see the screen go blank (for a second or two) when I watch the satellite channels. I assume this is due to a poor satellite reception and nothing to do with the settings (want to confirm I did not change anything accidentally when I was in the service menu). This never happened on my old Sony CRT. The only reason I isolated satellite as the cause is because I don;t think I saw this happening while watching DVD's. Any insight will be very helpful. Also I connected my Samsung 850 DVD player to Input2 using a DVI->HDMI conversion cable. The player gives me an option of changing my video setting to 720P/768P/1080i (default is 480p). Do I need to change this mode? Did not see any appreciable difference between 480P and 720P. Anything I need to do in the Pio setings?

kenlong

04-21-05, 10:39 AM

gongura: When I had my set calibrated, we discovered that the Pio's scaler was better than the scaler in my Samsung P341; it showed fewer jaggies when I set it to 480I vs. 480P. You should get better geometry with your DVI/HDMI connections.
My calibrater suggested that I get a player with HDMI connections; I'll wait for HD DVD...

gongura

04-21-05, 05:10 PM

Kenlong and others: How do I change the scaling on my Pio to 480I, how do I know what my current setting is. I can do this on my samsung DVD player since the remote has a button to change the scaling. Not sure how I can do this with my Pio remote. Also can someone post the ISF settings for S-Video (Input #3). I changed the settings for Input #5 last night and I assume you need to change (if you want to) for the other input types as well (#2 and #3) if you are using them. Not sure if the same settings apply for s-video as well.

egiro

04-21-05, 05:28 PM

gongura, the scaling takes place from the input, so all you have to do is set your source to 480I.

What the set scales it up to I don't know, I hope a more knowlwedgeable poster replies!

kenlong

04-22-05, 10:16 AM

gongura: How are you receiving your TV signal? Cable/Sat? I am on Comcast; my stb/dvr allows me to change resolution source on the stb. I have the stb set at 720p, was at 1080i. I really can't see much of a change either at 1080i or 720p.

Your Pio will tell you what Res. it is receiving, just hit the "display" button.

If your DVD has HDMI/DVI, (and you have it hooked up), the jaggie issue may be a non factor.

Ken

gocubsgo

04-22-05, 11:10 AM

Quick question. Bought the 4312 (so far so good) and based on what I've read, the lower the contrast the better (for burn in reasons). I went into the "menu" and adjusted my contrast down to -10. Is that too low. The standard setting was zero. Thoughts?

waltaz

04-22-05, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by gocubsgo
Quick question. Bought the 4312 (so far so good) and based on what I've read, the lower the contrast the better (for burn in reasons). I went into the "menu" and adjusted my contrast down to -10. Is that too low. The standard setting was zero. Thoughts?
I have Input 2 - HDMI at +2 and Input 5 - Component (DVD) at +10.

I would not worry about burn-in unless you leave the same image on there all day.

kenlong

04-22-05, 01:52 PM

I agree with waltaz; think you'll notice more detail in dark scenes by boosting your contrast. Had mine ISF calibrated and my contrast (input 2 and 5) are at + 8 - +12. Movies and dark scenes look better; with sports programming I may drop it back to 0.

stoli412

04-23-05, 12:32 AM

Hi all,

I just bought a 4304 from Tweeter (same as the 4312 from Costco, just w/o the speakers). It was their display model but in excellent condition and at a sweet price. Checked out the unit thoroughly before deciding to purchase (spent about 2 hours at the store!), and aside from some minor scuffs on the case it's in perfect condition. The glass has no scratches and the picture is flawless. I trust the guys at my local Tweeter as I've been buying from them for years.

Anyway, they have all the parts except for the manual. I've searched high and low on the internet to find one, but I can't. The guys at the store are going to try to get a copy for me, but they can't guarantee they'll be able to. Any chance anyone has an electronic copy they could send me? Anyone willing to scan it in and send me a PDF?

Qsquare

04-23-05, 03:10 PM

I picked up the PIO and returned the VIzio last weekend. Thank you to those who helped with with the box dimension. I threw out the outer box and the 3 inner boxes fits easily in my Path Finder.

I love this PIO! The PQ is amazing with my LG3510 with DVI-HDMI. Good transfer DVDs look even better than some local OTA HD channels. DVDs also look great with my Samsung 841 set at 480i with component cables. No black crush at all if you turn on the black level and allowing the plasma to scale with 480i. I have only done minimal tweaking with a THX DVD and have not mess with the service menu yet.

I wish I got the PIO from the get-go and not wasted 3 mos with the Vizio. The extra $1k was worth it.

antennahead

04-24-05, 12:20 PM

I agree Qsquare on the good transfer DVDs. I have played good DVDs on my Denon 2910 that were being broadcast on HBO or Showtime HD. Paused the DVD at the begining and qued them so they were at the same point in the movie, then did the A/B comparison. The picture quality of the DVD was as sharp or sharper than the HD feed, Color saturation as good and in some cases black level detail was better. I know D* compresses the signal and this effects the comparison, but still it amazes me how good a well made and transfered DVD looks. Now Discovery HD is another thing all together. The picture quality of their broadcast never ceases to amaze me.

John

soi_01

04-24-05, 11:06 PM

I'm going to buy this display, but I'm concerned about keeping the screen clean and scratch free. I live in an urban area that can be quite dusty and I don't have central air which means open windows and dust entering my house.

Mike

soi_01

04-24-05, 11:06 PM

soi_01

04-25-05, 09:08 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kenlong
[B]gongura: How are you receiving your TV signal? Cable/Sat? I am on Comcast; my stb/dvr allows me to change resolution source on the stb. I have the stb set at 720p, was at 1080i. I really can't see much of a change either at 1080i or 720p.

Your Pio will tell you what Res. it is receiving, just hit the "display" button.

Ken
I'm buying a 4312 and I have comcast which I'll upgrade to HD.
What is your overall experience with Comcast HD?

MIke

kenlong

04-25-05, 01:13 PM

soi: Congrats on your purchase!! Great value and peace of mind with Costco's return policy.

Just got back from our favorite club store, and they've received another shipment. One was on it's way out of the store as I left!!

Comcast was absolutely trouble free until 3 weeks ago; not sure if it's related, but coincidental with the broadband speed increase, PQ went to hell. Last weekend was really bad, glad it wasn't during the Masters.

All seems to have settled down; I noticed a # of Comcast trucks just outside the neighbor hood right before the trouble started.

I will probably stay with Comcast as I really don't want to buy STB's/DVR's
that will be obsolete due to changing technology in 1-2 years!

I've heard rumors that Direct may have some aggressive packages after they get their new birds up.

Let us know how you like the 4312 with your Comcast HD!!

All the best

Ken

I really enjoy the 6412 (DVR). Lets me record shows when I'm traveling., etc.

kenlong

04-25-05, 01:18 PM

soi: btw, the 4312 comes with a dust cloth. I use a slightly damp soft cotton cloth to remove fingerprints.

soi_01

04-25-05, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by kenlong
soi: Congrats on your purchase!! Great value and peace of mind with Costco's return policy.

All seems to have settled down; I noticed a # of Comcast trucks just outside the neighbor hood right before the trouble started.

I will probably stay with Comcast as I really don't want to buy STB's/DVR's
that will be obsolete due to changing technology in 1-2 years!

I've heard rumors that Direct may have some aggressive packages after they get their new birds up.

Let us know how you like the 4312 with your Comcast HD!!

All the best

Ken

I really enjoy the 6412 (DVR). Lets me record shows when I'm traveling., etc.
kenlong: I haven't bought it yet. I've got a small =Satrun and need to wait for my buddy with a Subaru SW to pick mine up. The picture is absolutely stunning. After reading all of the tweaks in this forum I'm even mmore anxious to get one.
Locally, there's a pretty good electronic tech show. The moderator reports comcast has much better HD programming right now than dtv.
The moderator sell DTV systems.

Mike

sachinh

04-25-05, 05:43 PM

My $0.02 on the Comcast HD and DVR :
The HD programming is pretty good in terms of content and quality . I've always had Comcast so guess can't say much in the way of comparisons but am quite happy with the PQ tho' I've heard others write that D* is way better than Comcast HD in terms of quality .

The DVR is another matter altogether ... I used to have a TIVO but can't use it anymore since it inputs/outputs Composite only . The PQ sucks :(
The Comcast/Moto DVR is horrendous . Its not intutive at all and WAF is quite bad on this . There is no concept of Season passes / wishlist based on searches ... ugh :mad:

Am waiting for the day the TIVO/Comcast box comes out or the HD TIVO drops in price significantly ... can't justify the ~800-1000 bucks thats its priced at currently.

Unfortunately , the pricing that Comcast has is very tempting and hence have made the compromise ...... for now :(

soi_01

04-25-05, 07:58 PM

My brother has HD DTV and likes it alot. The competition between HD competition between DTV and cable should benefit us.

Anybody compare the COSTCO JVC HDTV 42" 16:9 Plasma to the PIO PDP 4312? My local COSTCO doesn't have the 42" JVC in stock.

Mike

jcpzero

04-25-05, 08:34 PM

Yes, there have been comparisons between the Pioneer and the JVC and the Pioneer is preferred. On forum member returned the JVC and purchased the Panny ED instead.

The next generation of JVCs will hopefully be better, I noticed too much false contouring on the JVCs.

JCPZero

soi_01

04-25-05, 09:38 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jcpzero
[B]Yes, there have been comparisons between the Pioneer and the JVC and the Pioneer is preferred. On forum member returned the JVC and purchased the Panny ED instead.

The next generation of JVCs will hopefully be better, I noticed too much false contouring on the JVCs.

Interesting, the JVX costs $799.00 more than the 4312.

Any tips on cleaning the screen on the 4312 in a dusty environment?

Mike

Venman

04-26-05, 11:15 AM

Hey folks. Long time lurker, first time poster.
I just bought the Pioneer 4304 and love it. Used the general tweaks to create a pretty stunning picture.
However, when I went into the service menu, my settings were waay different
Example:
From a post... AD MAIN R GAIN <=> : 187/209 mine was set to 146.
Granted, I'm using Input2 (hdmi)
Does that change things? I don't want to make a mess.

robglasser

04-26-05, 12:47 PM

Just thought I'd throw this out there for all the Pioneer owners that previously had the Vizio. I was at my local costco yesterday and for the first time since the Vizio sale they have them in stock again. They also have it right next to the 43" Pioneer, both with the same HD loop connected via Component cable. Nice apples to apples comparision.

And in my opinion it just reinforced my decision to return the Vizio (When I returned the Vizio I didn't have HD yet, I was doing all my comparision with SD and Progresssive Scan DVD, with the Pioneer 100%+ better at). As far as HD the difference is not as great, but it's there. The Vizio is not nearly as crisp and the blacks to me didn't even seem that much better, if any. They just tended to be 'noisier'.

Anyways, just my 2 cents after spending about 10 minutes watching them side by side.

gongura

04-26-05, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by kenlong
gongura: How are you receiving your TV signal? Cable/Sat? I am on Comcast; my stb/dvr allows me to change resolution source on the stb. I have the stb set at 720p, was at 1080i. I really can't see much of a change either at 1080i or 720p.

Your Pio will tell you what Res. it is receiving, just hit the "display" button.

If your DVD has HDMI/DVI, (and you have it hooked up), the jaggie issue may be a non factor.

Ken

Kenlong: I have a Dish STB (311) that is connected to Input 3 on my Pio (S-video). I ordered the 811 (HD version) and hope to get a much better picture specailly for the HD channels. BTW, did you calibrate Input3 for your Pio, wil be interested in the calibrated settings for S-video.

kenlong

04-27-05, 09:53 AM

gongura: You should see a significant improvement in PQ when you go HD thru input 2. Suggest you spend a few extra $$ and get HDMI/DVI connections. My Comcast 6412 has a DVI out to the Pio HDMI input 2. I drive audio thru an optic cable from the STB to my Harmon Kardon 510 AVR.
BTW, I don't have the width to connect the Pio speakers; just curious, how do they sound?

You don't need to get the most expensive cables either.

I did not have input 3 calibrated, although it is connected. I rarely use it; occasionally I'll use it on SD programming.

dangerousdavid

04-27-05, 08:16 PM

Got the D*Tv HD tivo hooked up this weekend and have to say the picture is stunning in HD and pretty good in SD. Hooked it up with HDMI and tweaked using some of the settings posted here. No regrets and I think this is one of the best value out there right now.

bob2k2

04-29-05, 07:37 AM

The Comcast Scientific Atlantic 8000HD DVR in our area (Arlington, VA) does NOT have a active HDMI output (It's there, put does not work and tthere are no plans to activate it in talking to them). I connect to my Pio via the component input and use the hdmi port for my upscaling (1080i)Sony DVD.

Great picture on both.

gongura

04-29-05, 08:14 PM

Hi kenlong: Got a HD receiver last night and hooked it via component to the Pio. Did nto have teh HDMi cable and also I connected my Samsung HD850 to the HDMi using a HDMI-DVI cable. Anyway after hooking up my HD receiver (digital optical cable to my Yamaha receiver), I turned onto teh HD channels and it is FANTASTIC!!!. Never ever did I see such crisp picture with the Dolby Digital Sound. Hate to switch if off since I had to leave for work early this morning but still managed to get another glimpse at Discovery HD..they had a program called SunriseEarth and the PQ was STUNNING...I am ECSTATIC over my Pio..Love it!!

Thanks again for all the help on calibration, settings etc. Getting ready for HD Weekend :-)

Originally posted by kenlong
gongura: You should see a significant improvement in PQ when you go HD thru input 2. Suggest you spend a few extra $$ and get HDMI/DVI connections. My Comcast 6412 has a DVI out to the Pio HDMI input 2. I drive audio thru an optic cable from the STB to my Harmon Kardon 510 AVR.
BTW, I don't have the width to connect the Pio speakers; just curious, how do they sound?

You don't need to get the most expensive cables either.

I did not have input 3 calibrated, although it is connected. I rarely use it; occasionally I'll use it on SD programming.

kenlong

04-30-05, 09:36 AM

gong: you'll really enjoy true HD sports programming!! The Masters was awesome; I found I was so mesmerized by the picture that I wasn't paying attention to the golf.

My local Costco keeps restocking the 4312. Guess its going to be around for awhile.

All the best

Ken

soi_01

04-30-05, 05:09 PM

I'm buying the PDP 4312 from costco next week. I've got a 5 y/o sony dvd player and comcast digital cable. What should I do to minimize burn in during the time I don't have HD cable and am viewing digital cable 4x3 aspect ratio? what should I buy to generate the most enjoyment from the pdp4312? I'm going to get comcast HD soon. Should I stick with my old dvd player? Buy a progressive scan dvd player? which cable connect should I use?

Ally help is greatly appreciated.

Mike

SteveHoltam

04-30-05, 11:00 PM

Mike, HD is most have! Since you are buying a true HD tv, that is where you will be able to see your new set really shine.

Otherwise, while viewing 4x3 you should pick one of the tv's stretch modes that looks the best to you. I have always used standard on my 16x9 tv's and have gotten very used to it. The sooner you pick a mode and stick with it, the quicker you will get used to it.

I dont really have an opinion on the DVD players. A few years ago it was all about progressive scan. Now with modern TV's having much better processing, Im seeing a return of the interlaced players. Im not sure, but look for a player that can play blacker then blacks. Thats all I have on that.

Cable connects are from best to worst - DVI/HDMI, Component, S-video, Composite. Always use the best you can output. Also, with the 4312, you can buy a vga breakput cable to convert the VGA input into an additional component cable, which I recommend.

Good luck!

Steve

soi_01

04-30-05, 11:16 PM

Steve, thanks for the helpful advice. My timetable is to pick up the 4312 midweek I'll order comcast hd tomorrow, whcih means they'll install it in a couple of weeks, so I'll have to live with digital comcast using coaxial in.
When would I use a vga breakput cable to convert the VGA input into an additional component cable?

Mike

somno

04-30-05, 11:23 PM

You only need to convert the VGA input to component if you are using the other component input (input #4) for one of your devices (like DVD player) and need another component input (for example for your cable box). Otherwise, don't bother with that.

soi_01

05-01-05, 12:21 AM

Good point. How am I going to hook up cable box, xbox and dvd player?
Recommend some sort of component switch box?

Mike

SteveHoltam

05-01-05, 01:56 AM

I have my DVD player and Xbox (via breakout) hooked up through component hookups. I would suggest that you also purchase the xbox component cable kit to take advantage of the 480p and 720P graphics ability of the xbox. I think the kit was about $20 and was well worth it.

If your dvd player does not have component outs, then it needs to replaced. Denon seems to be the current brand of choice around here.

As far as your cable box, connect if via the best output it has until you swap it for the HD box and then you will use the DVI connection.

Steve

kenlong

05-01-05, 08:58 AM

Mike: As to the DVD player, when my 4312 was calibrated, we learned that it's scaler was much better than my Samsung P341's at eliminating jaggies. I leave it in interlaced mode rather than progressive.

Ken

soi_01

05-01-05, 10:04 PM

Thanks all. At this point it looks like comcast cable - coaxial connection, dvd component. I've got component connections for xbox. How do I connect the component xbox? Any recommendations for component switchbox?

Mike

bmott

05-02-05, 02:23 AM

Just got my 4312 Today and have been playing with the calibrations in the service menu and in the pio menu.

Couple Questions.

So our factory settings are unique for each display, however can we still use the information on the ISF calibrated display by dialing in the same number of clicks between the factory settings and the calibrated settings Correct?

For examples my display has a RY gain of 135 so i set it to 129 which is -6 clicks.

Also when you set the service menu to ISF settins, do we still need to mess with the Menu settings or should we just leave it on standard.

Anyone try using an ourboard scaler with this? Like the DVDO HD?

Any other helpful hints i should try with this display?

Is HDMI worth it over Component. I have read there are only perfomance gains on true Digital Displays like DLP and LCOS.

Originally posted by gowens7228
le penseur and all!

i have aggregated the ISF calibration settings from this forum and noted the factory settings using le penseur's formatted document. now it is all in one place. enjoy!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:
Numbers before the slash are ISF Calibrated settings for COMPONENT INPUT #5 found on this forum. After the slash are original factory settings for the
same input. This should take < 15 minutes and really is quite easy.

SERVICE MENU:
Make sure the 4304 is first set to the desired input (INPUT 5 in my
case). With the 4304 in STANDBY, press DISPLAY on the remote (just
press, do not hold). Wait 3 seconds, then press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT
and POWER (on the remote). If done correctly, the 4304 turns on and the
INFORMATION page is displayed. Press MUTE to move through the top-level
menus (which are INFORMATION, FUNCTION CHECK, COMMON ADJ, OPTION,
INITIALIZE). Press the DOWN key to move through individual sub-menus.

1. Make sure that the INFORMATION screen shows that the settings are
for INPUT 5 (on the top right, it should show a field beginning with
"IN5-").
NOTE: While scrolling through the submenu settings in the following
steps (e.g., "RY GAIN <=> ..."), use the LEFT/RIGHT
buttons on your remote while scrolling through these fields,
to change the values (if that's what you want to do :-))!

2. Press MUTE to advance to the INDIVIDUAL ADJ. menu.
Cycle through the settings, by pressing DOWN:
RY GAIN <=> : 128/134
GY GAIN <=> : 117/122
BY GAIN <=> : 134/131

3. Press MUTE to advance to the COMMON ADJ. menu; this should show
RGB 1 (+) as the menu item (if it doesn't, UP/DOWN will cycle through
all the choices).
(a) On RGB 1 (+), hit SET to enter the sub menu (COMMON ADJ. will
change to show COMMON-RGB1)
Cycle through the settings, by pressing DOWN:
AD MAIN R GAIN <=> : 187/209
AD MAIN G GAIN <=> : 178/193
AD MAIN B GAIN <=> : 179/194
AD MAIN R OFFSET <=> : 129/127
AD MAIN G OFFSET <=> : 162/162
AD MAIN B OFFSET <=> : 128/128
Press SET to exit.
(b) Press DOWN to go to RGB 2 (+); press SET to enter the sub menu:

AD MAIN CONTRAST <=> : 081/081
Press SET to exit.
(c) Press DOWN to go to PANEL1 (+); press SET to enter the sub menu.
Cycle through the settings, by pressing DOWN (no changes to here):
X-SUS U1 <=> : 128/128
X-SUS U2 <=> : 129/129
X-SUS D1 <=> : 128/128
X-SUS D2 <=> : 128/128
Y-SUS U1 <=> : 128/128
Y-SUS U2 <=> : 129/129
Y-SUS D1 <=> : 128/128
Y-SUS D2 <=> : 128/128
Y-SUS D3 <=> : 128/128
Y-SUS D4 <=> : 128/128
VLT-SUS <=> : 107/107
VLT-OFS <=> : 157/157
Press SET to exit.
(d) Press DOWN to go to PANEL2 (+); press SET to enter the sub menu.
Cycle through the settings, by pressing DOWN:
PANEL R HIGH <=> : 247/241
PANEL G HIGH <=> : 248/249
PANEL B HIGH <=> : 256/256
PANEL R LOW <=> : 508/512
PANEL G LOW <=> : 511/512
PANEL B LOW <=> : 509/512
ABL LEVEL <=> : 117/123
Press SET to exit.

4. Switch unit off (i.e., place it in standby) to exit the service menu.