Thanks navy and toker. I'm almost sold....looking forward to the 52" units and word from Microsoft on the XBox 360.

You should definitely bring a console with you to the store and test it out. Also note that the sidebars on 4:3 content is gray and cannot be changed. So if you play a lot of 4:3 gaming, you need to see whether or not this bothers you.

Neither of you guys had any problem with control delay in 480i games like was reported with some of the Samsung DLPs? This would probably be a deal breaker for me, although if it only occured deinterlacing and scaling 480i games I might be able to live with it, as those will probably disappear in the next console generation (I hope).

Thanks,
David

i dont even know if i have any 480i games left, i try to buy just widescreen 480p at minimum i'll try to find one tommorrow after work and see if there is a delay

There isn't any 480i upscaling delay on the JVC. I play a lot of fighting games on the DC (480i) and games like Gladius which require split second button presses.

Originally posted by swenjj
i dont have to pay anything , the shipping company was trying to get tva to pay for shipping , but the photos helped he said,

i figure i may as well have it shipped because it could as easily get broken in my truck as theirs, but this way i get a new one if it is,

jim and kid red, i should add i already got my new tv again, tva was right on it and it only took a couple more days to take care of this

That's great to hear. That's good service by TVA. I believe it's the retailer's (B&M or online) responsibility in a case like this, then they can play the blame game to determine who ultimately pays. TVA seems like a really good online retailer, I will look to them first when I decide which set I want.

Jim

Rumor has it that XBox 2 games will be at least 720p. That's why I'm waiting for the announcement on May 12.

I'm okay for now playing my consoles on my 27" and 32" direct view CRT's. If the next-gen consoles are as good as the hype and this years D-ILAs turn out to be keepers, I'll be spending some money this fall.

Originally posted by navychop
The bottom of the circle, at the bottom of the screen, shows some magenta on top and green on the bottom. Note that the top of the circle is all white.

Navy, thanks for posting the pictures - well done. From the movie screen shots it appears that even though the TV shows a little CA or misalignment with the calibration tools, actual program images look great.

gt

Continuing on with my first impressions in regard to my HTPC.

I hooked up my PC via the VGA connector set to 1024x768@60 and while watching some mpeg2 video streams noticed a lot of image tearing. As far as I'm concerned the VGA connector on the TV is worthless. Why go through the bother of add a VGA port to a wide screen TV and not have an option for a 16:9 resolution? GRRR!

One good note. My video card also supports component out at 720P. Now that does look pretty! In this mode I have a wide screen(ish) desktop that is not stretched and is producing a surprising sharp image with no image tearing. So this is what I am currently using until I can figure out how to get DVI-HDMI to work.

The video card I'm using in my HTPC is a Volari V3XT (http://www.xgitech.com/products/products_2.asp?P=8). It has some real driver issues (the current choice for various image resolutions is very limited on the DVI and component side) but for $40 it's a start.

lorenzow:

Just so you know, Microsoft's J. Allard announced at the Game Developers Conference in March that 720p and widescreen are minimums for all Xbox 360 games. This is not speculation, it was announced! I hope that puts some of your fears to rest.

all:

As far as the D-ILA sets go, I've been enjoying this thread very much. I'm looking forward to the 61" 1080p model in the fall. My only disappointment currently is with the VGA port on these sets. It really seems like limiting it to 1024 x 768 was a major mistake on JVC part. I hope they fix this with the 1080p sets.

Originally posted by Bombthroat
lorenzow:

Just so you know, Microsoft's J. Allard announced at the Game Developers Conference in March that 720p and widescreen are minimums for all Xbox 360 games. This is not speculation, it was announced! I hope that puts some of your fears to rest.


Thanks. I've read all the announcements and rumors on the XBox 360. Forgive me for saying this, but I take MS trial balloons with a grain of salt. They will come out with something on May 12 but might end up changing it before the actual release in November. It all depends on the reception they get from the media and what Sony announces for the PS3.

Originally posted by navychop
Xeye:

Regarding your post 242, I will try to do so. I'm leaving town for the weekend, so it will likely be Monday before I get a chance to try. I don't get the multi color effect. I'll try turning on and off clear type.

Can you tell me how you make more than one attachment to a post?

have a nice weekend, navy. Do you mean two links or two posts? I do not have attachments, they are just links I took from other site and put there by QuickEdit option.

Meantime look at CA obtained by Sony SXRD Qualia 006 taken from this AVS thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5486323#post5486323

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jiminy
Here are some links to shots on my 006. The last one shows the resolution options available ( 480p, 720p and 1080i). I have it running at 1080i. These images are heavily jpg compressed, but you get the idea. In person the text is cleaner.

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=236438
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=236447
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=236448

Well, those are gorgeous. But the TV alone costs more than my entire home theater, plus every TV and HTPC in the house.

OT- I can't believe PCs still don't have anti-aliasing for their screen fonts. How do you guys stand that crappy hard edged text?

Originally posted by Vikingmd
"The CA issue was those pics that sure looked as CA;
http://www.kodakgallery.com/PhotoVi...oid=46310074407"
That's what I was referring to as well. Dead link........
Originally posted by hifiaudio2
You can rent colorfacts for a month for $299.
They also state that they dont mind if you share it.
So get 4 or 5 people that want to calibrate and you have something affordable. Ok, thrill me, what are u talking about?Meantime look at CA obtained by Sony SXRD Qualia 006I thought this was a JVC thread?
Phony, no baloney...........

Well, I just phoned my local B&M and asked them if they knew when my 786 would be there, and they said "We can deliver it Tuesday". I guess I should have phoned them last week! I was waiting for them to contact me . . .:rolleyes:

Originally posted by navychop
Well, those are gorgeous. But the TV alone costs more than my entire home theater, plus every TV and HTPC in the house.

I will wait for second comparison (may be first set was badly misconfigured) but will tell you that if JVC will not solve the problem with CA in 1080 70" sets then everyone will piss off on it, because with higher resolutions and screen sizes the CA and mis-convergence will bring total mess on PC screen.

If your set will also show same large color splits then it's shame for optics designers at JVC, they are just nuts because with 3-chips there exist practical possibility to eliminate CA in first order completely by tweaking the sizes of each chip (what i think it was done with Sony). The quality of optics has no relationship with CA in this case. The worse optics the cheaper it is and hence the better. Optics needs just stable index of refraction dispersion from lens to lens.

Of course price for Sony is outrageous. But exactly this time in one year from now all 60-70-80 and higher size RPTVs will be 1080s and 60-70" will cost 3K to 6K max.

Hopefully your TV will show not as large CA based on previous screenshots and you wont be jealous for the rest of your life to anyone here starting just 6 months from now :)

because with 3-chips there exist practical possibility to eliminate CA in first order completely by tweaking the sizes of each chip (what i think it was done with Sony). The quality of optics has no relationship with CA in this case.

I have been wondering about this. Who has the patents on tweaking the chip sizes?

Well, I think my shots show that there is very little CA, at least on my TV. A 1 pixel color fringe, more or less, is not detracting from the viewing experience. The fact is not that there is CA or slight misconvergence, -it's that there's so little.

There is NO perfection. Look very closely at your CRT direct view. Look at the center and at the edges. The edges won't be as sharp. There may be other flaws. But it's still likely a very good picture.

Well, just before heading out the door, I checked an mpg file. It does tear. I don't know why- DVDs play thru the laptop just fine on the JVC. Any knowledgeable folks out there have any idea why an mpg file would smear on playback when a DVD won't?

Originally posted by Onmitsu
I have been wondering about this. Who has the patents on tweaking the chip sizes?

No idea who...
It's obvious though. Let's patent it together if no one did :)

Navychop:

That's because, in a similar sense to HDTV, "MPEG" is a method of compression with lots of variables, not one specific set standard. Your PC compresses the heck out of the MPEG alot more than the DVD (which isn't as concerned with saving disc space, and the artifacts are what's causing the blurring.

I've been a big fan of the JVC for about a year now, and I'm waiting for the new 56" this summer to pull the trigger. (I just didn't have the space for the 61") I've already e-mailed TV authority to put me on the "tell me when its coming" list. Love your posts....keep 'em comin'!

I finally had a chance to look at the 61z886 at the local box store. The CA was visible from 2' and in. I couldn't get more than 7' away because they have it set up on an aisle but, even at that distance, I couldn't see the CA. The set was playing 'The Incredibles' so it was hard to judge the PQ. It definately looked different than the DLP's lined up next to it on the same feed (480i DVD). I can't say for sure if they were better though. I did notice more jaggies on the D-ILA than the DLPs. The DLPs had a brightish edge on images that had jaggies on the D-ILA. That could have been caused by differences in the internal scalers (?).

Originally posted by kfeltes
I finally hooked my PC up to it via DVI-2-HDMI cable. The resolution is just about perfect. I'm working on tweaking it as some of the text is being duplicated/shadowed in different colors. I know there's a name for this but I can't remember what it is. I'll post my settings when I find out what they are. I'll be using the HTPC for DVDs/xvid and SD TV - so I need the PC connection cleaned up. It's my priority right now.

Image 1: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=235665

kfeltes,

Thanks for posts like this. I am following your posts closely.

(1) Have you improved your PC picture quality yet? I'm using my HTPC on a old Toshiba CRT RPTV. My desktop at 1080i is unreadable.

I see that you are using the HDMI connection.
(2) Are your pictures that at 720p? Have you gotten the desktop to show fully on the screen?

(3) Any regrets when using your HTPC?

Thanks,
BadB0y2K

Forgive me if I'm preaching to the choir, but to expand a bit on this:

video files can be encoded in different ways at different bitrates, sizes and with different settings or compression schemes. These settings can severely affect output quality of the video being played. For example, it would be possible to take a dvd that plays beautifully on the laptop and "rip" it (transcode it) from the dvd to an mpg file on the laptop. If the settings used were inappropriate or poorly chosen, the output would be very bad from the newly created file but still great from the DVD.

Also, the software that you use to playback the DVD and the video file can have a significant affect on the quality of playback as well.

Again, apologies if I'm rehashing information that everyone already knows...

Originally posted by Videoops
Navychop:

That's because, in a similar sense to HDTV, "MPEG" is a method of compression with lots of variables, not one specific set standard. Your PC compresses the heck out of the MPEG alot more than the DVD (which isn't as concerned with saving disc space, and the artifacts are what's causing the blurring.

I've been a big fan of the JVC for about a year now, and I'm waiting for the new 56" this summer to pull the trigger. (I just didn't have the space for the 61") I've already e-mailed TV authority to put me on the "tell me when its coming" list. Love your posts....keep 'em comin'!

Well they are bringing out a new set tomorrow. I am happy with this one, but since Navy is reporting less CA than I am seeing on mine, it cant hurt to try a new set.

Originally posted by BadB0y2K
kfeltes,

Thanks for posts like this. I am following your posts closely.

(1) Have you improved your PC picture quality yet? I'm using my HTPC on a old Toshiba CRT RPTV. My desktop at 1080i is unreadable.

I see that you are using the HDMI connection.
(2) Are your pictures that at 720p? Have you gotten the desktop to show fully on the screen?

(3) Any regrets when using your HTPC?

Thanks,
BadB0y2K

You're welcome!

1.) I haven't made any progress since my last post. I'm on a business trip (get back on Monday).
2.) Yes I have. The native resolution shows overscan (equal overscan on all sides). The entire desktop fits almost perfectly (underscan by 2 pixels on the bottom) when I underscan by 8%.
3.) No regrets at all. This TV is worth every penny. So is the HTPC.

Back in town, and back to testing.

For at least some OTA, gamma on does look better.

On WETA now, ch 26-1, starting at 8, they have one "deep jungle" or some such. Blockiness of leaves and monkeys moving is horrible. It seems they are multicasting the same program on 26-2 in SD. Is there any logic in this? Sometimes WETA looks fine, but too often, it is too blocky to watch.

I'm gonna havta watch a whole movie soon. My wife has asked if I can ever watch anything anymore, or am I just going to look for flaws? Of course, we haven't watched an entire movie yet. Jumping around too much.

It really does produce decent blacks. I may be losing some detail, but I'll know more after DVE gets here.

Also- I complained earlier that an mpeg-2 file from my laptop had tearing- it smeared. Well, I looked at the same clip on the laptop and on a CRT monitor- and it smears there too. It's not the TV. Other mpeg files played fine. The quality of the source material was poor, but the TV did not make anything worse.

Received my 61 G on Friday. Fantastic! Great blacks, and ZERO CA. Very happy. Only annoying thing is the grey bars.

mjtesdeus

So who here that has the new rig has also owned last year's model that can offer a comparison?

Anyone?

Hi guys I am here to give my view of this D-ILA set I have the HD-61Z786 (Black)....Well I had a 575 and they have made some good tweeks to the new set like the CA is reduced but NOT gone the blacks are better but not close to the Plasma I own.....

I just got my set Last night and upon fireing it up no Dead pixels 3 hours later 1 red in and or near center of screen but its no big deal unless you look for it and I have become numbed by the whole dead pixel thing anyway most Co stink in this area and JVC is no exception to the rule. If you buy LCD or LCOS, D_ILA you will get a dead pixel most of the time if ya don't go play the Lottery lol your luck is better then most....

I have a Philips 55 inch LCOS set and yes its working fine and I must say the picture is better then this D-ILA mostly because of the Digital noise and or blockey MPEG noise. I see in this set...I have a lot of TV's in my house and I have NEVER seen this much Digital noise in the picture...At first I thought it was me or just my set but i saw it in every other 786 I have seen today in my area ( 3 Tv's ).

I'm not sure where it is coming from got to be in there electronics so I'm going to open this sucker up and make some adjustments after I get the service manual...I think there power routing and decoder board is the suspect but who knows I'm a tweaker by nature(and an Engineer lol)

The CA is there if your 3 feet away but goes away from 4 feet...The blue and red misconvergance is there from 3 feet s well disappearing from 4....Overall there is a big red push with this set I'm sure i can get close to 6500K tho with a calabration....

Computer use is junk to me 1024X768 come on that was so 3 years ago we need at least 1280 X 720 come on JVC whats up with hat ????

Movies on my 5910 to the JVC are good not mind blowing tho again that noise issue is just killing me but again I'm a Picky B.....You may not think the noise is an issue....

HDMI is great I'm switching with a Onkyo TX-N1000 and its fine.. Firewire from my D-VHS is wonderful D-Theater tapes are very nice just the dam noise thing again lol..

Now in my opinion they have gotten better at the black thing with this set but the set still crushes black to a good degree.....The JVC D-ILA on HDTV is stunning and it has a lot of punch but SD is just sub par to my eyes.....

JVC I know is only on 2 gen with this guy so I'm not gonna get all crazy and say don't buy it its junk or whatever BUT I do know a lot of you are wanting a real review of this set and Ill say it here and now I think its a good set NOT a great or AAA+ set like the Sony SXRD however the Sony costs MUCH more then this D-ILA so it is good at what it can do....

JVC better Dot the I's and Cross the T's on there 1080P sets or else they will not be able to keep up with the SXRD and DLP 1080P sets I know we are all waiting for them, heck I'm gonna order one as soon as I can because I'm a crazy stupid man but heck I think we are all nuts lol...

Check out the D-ILA let your eyes be the judge I'm gonna keep mine a few months and toy with it maybe I can track down the noise I'll let everyone know..I mean heck I got my Philips set working better then there techs could so I'm hopeful....Stay Tuned.........Asab :D

Great review, Asab!

Thanks

Asab- (speaking from the current 52") The black crush is a symptom of improper calibrating. You either have gamma on or your brightness / picture settings making the set too dark therefore crushing blacks. You may lost the last step or two in the greyscale, but this set doesn't crush blacks unless you set it for darker blacks and comprise shadow detail in the process.

The HD-70G886 is now up on the JVC web site.

I am stuck between getting a 70" or 60" D-ILA or one of the new 50" Panny plasmas. I do game alot on the TV (not worried bout burn in) but the TV is also used alot for regular TV use and DVD's. It seems that I can get a 70" D-ILA for about the same price as the 50" Panny, but I am concerned about the clarity of the picture on the D-ILA. Black crush is one of them, especially in dark games such as Doom 3, and also having faded, washed out colors. Also, it will be the centerpiece (so to speak) in our living room, so it does need a good viewing angle. If someone could give me their opinion on how good the clarity on the screen is with an xbox and PC that would help me along alot. Thanks =)

Any opinions of extended warranties on these sets? HH Gregg has a 4 year extender for about $350 that covers a bulb too.....

WETA-HD is in the process of moving to the WJLA tower and increasing the transmission power. Hopefully, their reception will improve as I have also found it ok sometimes, but sometimes unwatchable.

Originally posted by swflbatth
I am stuck between getting a 70" or 60" D-ILA or one of the new 50" Panny plasmas. I do game alot on the TV (not worried bout burn in) but the TV is also used alot for regular TV use and DVD's. It seems that I can get a 70" D-ILA for about the same price as the 50" Panny, but I am concerned about the clarity of the picture on the D-ILA. Black crush is one of them, especially in dark games such as Doom 3, and also having faded, washed out colors. Also, it will be the centerpiece (so to speak) in our living room, so it does need a good viewing angle. If someone could give me their opinion on how good the clarity on the screen is with an xbox and PC that would help me along alot. Thanks =)

I posted above, black crush is not an issue with these sets if calibrated correctly. Colors are near flawless (according to Avia) OTB on the first gen, I don't think the second gen would be much different. The viewing angle is excellent with these sets. There are a few pics posted with a PC connected a few pages back I think, I can't comment on that personally.

What about HDMI DVD players?

Do any of you new HD-ILA owners have these?

If so, have you compared component vs. HDMI connections with all possible resolutions (480i/p, 720p. 1080i is pointless for a 720 set, of course)?

Originally posted by swflbatth
I am stuck between getting a 70" or 60" D-ILA or one of the new 50" Panny plasmas. I do game alot on the TV (not worried bout burn in) but the TV is also used alot for regular TV use and DVD's. It seems that I can get a 70" D-ILA for about the same price as the 50" Panny, but I am concerned about the clarity of the picture on the D-ILA. Black crush is one of them, especially in dark games such as Doom 3, and also having faded, washed out colors. Also, it will be the centerpiece (so to speak) in our living room, so it does need a good viewing angle. If someone could give me their opinion on how good the clarity on the screen is with an xbox and PC that would help me along alot. Thanks =)

I think another issue is how long you plan on keeping the set since the digital set has replacable bulbs, but the plasma has a set lifetime. With the price of bulbs, and the tech life span of TVs these days it may not be a huge deal depending on your situation though.

Originally posted by grendyl
I think another issue is how long you plan on keeping the set since the digital set has replacable bulbs, but the plasma has a set lifetime. With the price of bulbs, and the tech life span of TVs these days it may not be a huge deal depending on your situation though.

Personally I wouldn't plan on keeping a set for 60,000 hours like you could in a plasma. With improving technology, I would likely replace 1 bulb max. before I was ready to trade up.

If you do plan on replacing after say 20,000 hours of use, then the "run cost" will be 3-4 bulbs on LCOS/DLP and 0 on plasma. Plasma has the advantage under nearly all normal use models.

OK, I've posed the question in a different thread but had no feedback so I'm trying here again:

The set's drawing shows a width of 57 3/8 and my cabinet has 57 ½ and I’m wondering if I should wait for the 56” set. The 52” will be just too small. Has anyone installed a TV like this without side clearance? Where is the fan hot air coming out of (front, side, rear)?

Can someone measure its set and tell me if the 57 3/8 is an accurate measurement?

Thanks.

Originally posted by grendyl
I am stuck between getting a 70" or 60" D-ILA or one of the new 50" Panny plasmas. I do game alot on the TV (not worried bout burn in) but the TV is also used alot for regular TV use and DVD's. It seems that I can get a 70" D-ILA for about the same price as the 50" Panny, but I am concerned about the clarity of the picture on the D-ILA. Black crush is one of them, especially in dark games such as Doom 3, and also having faded, washed out colors. Also, it will be the centerpiece (so to speak) in our living room, so it does need a good viewing angle. If someone could give me their opinion on how good the clarity on the screen is with an xbox and PC that would help me along alot. Thanks =)

I would think the size difference would be the biggest determinant. A 70" TV has nearly twice as much total viewing area as a 50".

Originally posted by mjtesdeus
Received my 61 G on Friday. Fantastic! Great blacks, and ZERO CA. Very happy. Only annoying thing is the grey bars.

mjtesdeus

You mean 61 Z we assume....

No CA at all?
Can you please post ***similar*** picture from your TV?
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=235661
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=235659
Very curious... If you have XP and ClearType fonts on, turn fonts to Standard for better CA visibility (of course you know how, but just to remind Display/Display Properties/Appearance/Effects/Standard).

I saw today couple 61z786s in side-by-side comparison with 52z575.
Good news is they had no visible brightness differences with 52".
Kind of miracle (same lamp power, 1.4 times surface area difference, assuming same optics used).

But CA in 886s ...don't ask. Blue color separation was the disaster which reminded me first generations of color TVs where convergence was the main issue. Of course center was OK, bit specifically bottom and sides were terrible, 3-4 pix off. The whole image was a bit blury, like not perfectly focused. This is why max PC connection size has restrictions to 1024x768 I guess.

Nearby Sonys had no visible CAs at all over the whole field. Others like Toshibas, Hitachis and Sammys had **much** less CA.

Did somebody looked inside the box? If light engine is not sealed, is there any way to put an additional thin lens (with focal distance probably 200") in the blue light channel between the main objective? Blue CA are too severe.

Originally posted by empire_of_one
I would think the size difference would be the biggest determinant. A 70" TV has nearly twice as much total viewing area as a 50".

Yes it is a huge determinant, but I want to make sure that I am not shooting myself in the foot when it comes to a PQ comparison. I am used to playing games on the highest resolutions on PC's, so I like very crisp graphics. If an image is fuzzy when I play a console game on the TV it bugs the hell outta me. I know that the plasmas have stellar PQ, but I would be sacrificing alot in the way of screen size. Bulb replacement is a non-factor for me btw. If I go with a D-ILA I just wanna make sure it can hold up its end in the PQ department. If anyone can give me some opinions on how they look on an xbox I would appreciate it.

mine looks pretty darn good on the xbox, i like it better than on my 56 samsung dlp or my older 50 inch lcd panasonic, but i am not a pc gamer so i cant really compare it to that

But CA in 886s ...don't ask. Blue color separation was the disaster which reminded me first generations of color TVs where convergence was the main issue. Of course center was OK, bit specifically bottom and sides were terrible, 3-4 pix off. The whole image was a bit blury, like not perfectly focused. Quite obvious they don't have a handle on this.:mad:
Is the black level improved or is it still grey?

I was getting ready to pull the trigger on one of these but I need to see one side by side with the Sony XS first. When I saw navy's set the picture on the DVD scenes we viewed looked really good to me. We did see some colors on the edges of the Starwars THX test patterns but only from close up. I think I'll take my Avia disk to a local showroom and check both the JVC and Sony to see if there's a big difference. I like the JVC's cabinet a LOT better than the Sony (stupid side speakers) but PQ is, of course, most important.

Jim

Navychop or anyone else:

Do you have some images of a uniform black screen in a dark room with the new JVC's? Navy, I have looked at your images and they look great, but I didn't see any of a uniform dark or space/night scene under low light level conditions.

Setting the TV to an unused channel and turning "noise muting" off in the user menu generates a nice black screen which is good for this kind of test. If you don't turn "noise muting" off you get a gray screen. Hitting pause during a space scene in any Star Wars movie works well for this too.

I'm just really interested in what other people are experiencing. I personally think the purple/green color imbalances in dark screens is the biggest downer on these JVC sets. It's the kind of problem you can easily see in a dark room at any viewing distance.

I personally think the purple/green color imbalances in dark screens is the biggest downer on these JVC sets. It's the kind of problem you can easily see in a dark room at any viewing distance.Once you get past the overly bright, too grey looking blacks.

video- My blacks are pretty darn black. During the day, or with lights on, they are very deep. In darkness in a dark scene they aren't very deep, but no worse then any other non CRT set. Yet, this set screams for a ND filter mod.

enflux75:

Blacks are good. I've done the Star Wars test and it's uniform black, no purple or green or brighter splotches. Unfortunately, I have had no success in photographing it. Yet. I'll try again later, but yesterday morning my words were prophetic: Last night my wife insisted I stop tweaking and critiquing and watch something all the way thru. Spent an hour wishing I could try different modes to compare. Didn't dare. She now wants to watch an entire movie. However, the WAF is high with this set. I've looked at the solid grey screen also. Haven't seen any dead/stuck pixels. I'll examine more carefully this weekend.

My wife works on Saturday, so I can tweak, test, and practice photography, and try the "noise muting" bit. My DVE disc appeared yesterday, so I'll have that to practice with also. So, Jim Clark, you can come over Saturday with a Sony XS and we'll put them next to each other to compare!

I don't mind grey side bars. And I don't think the blacks are "too grey looking" - Videobruce, have you seen this model? Or are you going by the previous model?

Kid Red; I know you posted it, but which set did you get?

Navy,

If you can, set your digital camera to night mode. That's what worked on my Sony DSC-P52. It took a longer exposure with more internal gain, but not so much that it caused the uniformity to be overly exaggerated and unnatural. The pictures I were able to get were as extremely close to what you would see in a dark room AFTER you were viewing for a long while and your pupils were fully dilated.

Originally posted by videobruce
Kid Red; I know you posted it, but which set did you get?

I have the first gen 52". I can't imagine blacks have gotten worse. When I first got the set the blacks weren't very dark. However, since I calibrated with Avia and my new Denon 2900, my black level has improved drastically. I guess you need a decent DVD player to calibrate with.

Night mode? I'm gonna havta Read The Fine Manual. At least I've got a tripod, but it's a bit short, not quite up to screen center.

"..need a decent DVD player to calibrate with." Uh-oh.

Kid Red,

I too want a good DVD player to hook up to my 575. You say your Denon 2900 along with a calibration DVD improved blacks. That sounds pretty good to me. How is the Denon 2900 with the macroblocking issue? To be honest with everyone, I'm not even sure what macroblocking is or how it works.

From what I've read so far I think macroblocking either has something to do with:

1. MPEG compression artifacts on DVD's getting exaggerated.
2. Some kind of security feature embedded on DVD's to prevent copying.

I have read that certain DVD players exhibit "purple rain clouds" and other image artifacts when connected to a JVC D-ILA set due to this macroblocking thing.

Can anyone give me a short answer?

Originally posted by videobruce
Quite obvious they don't have a handle on this.:mad:
Is the black level improved or is it still grey?

How blacks can improve with 1:700 B/W ratio assuming the same LCOS chips? Even SXRD with its 1:3000
is not good enough for some folks who love CRTs blacks...
I am not CRT lover and for me black was acceptable though. Besides
I always have ambient light so question of black level is 100% non-existent. 786/886 blacks and brightness in this showroom were still better than in any Sony LCD RPTV. The only big problem of new DILAs are CA. They are at least 3 (Tosh, Hitachi, Sammi) to 10(Sony) times larger than in all other RPTVs.

enflux75- The 2900 has NO macroblocking. The MB is only on certain faradouja chips, and the 2900 does not have that chip. There is no purple rain clouds, no green blacks, no nothing. The image and the audio is simply outstanding. Not only that, the 2900 reads the gamma of every DVD, so you can then adjust the gamma as well, like 15 slides or so. So if a DVD has weak blacks, you can then adjust the last slide down to get better blacks. Really nice feature if a DVD doesn't have a clean gamma.

I would really like to see how this compares to the Sony XS's. Hope you all can do that comparison and let us know how it turns out. Especially cases such as color vibrancy, image crispness, viewing angle, and possibly an xbox test?

Well, my 786 just arrived - replacing my 4 week old Jan 05 build 585. I only had a minute to confirm that it was functioning OK before I had to rush back to work for a meeting.

But, I can confirm that SD was displayed with black bars at the sides, not gray . . . :)

Then the SD you saw was transmitted with black bars. When the set produces the side bars, as with an SD satellite receiver, they are gray.

I have just ordered a 61Z886 to replace a 585. I read earlier that the remote on the new unit does not have have the discrete video inputs on it, but instead a toggle input button. Does anyone know if the TV will still respond to the discrete input codes. I am sure JVC would not remove this capability, but I was wondering if someone could confirm this.

Thanks

Pete

Originally posted by navychop
Then the SD you saw was transmitted with black bars. When the set produces the side bars, as with an SD satellite receiver, they are gray.

Maybe the satellite receiver is adding the gray bars. My Scientific Atlanta STB has a "Set TV Borders" menu option.

Then the SD you saw was transmitted with black bars. When the set produces the side bars, as with an SD satellite receiver, they are gray.

Thanks for the info Navychop!

OK . . .

I have been watching a brand new 61Z585 for the last four weeks. On SD broadcasts in 4:3 ratio the set has been inserting light gray bars to the left and right of the picture. The feed is DirecTV. It was doing this up until this morning.

I am now the proud owner of a brand new 61Z786 which has replaced the 61Z585. On SD broadcasts in 4:3 ratio the set is inserting black bars to the left and right of the picture. The feed is the same DirecTV that was going into the 585 . . .


Maybe we just disagree on what black looks like on a DILA. After four weeks I might be thinking that any reasonably dark gray looks like the black of night!

But definitely the same feed, and way way darker bars.
:D

On SD broadcasts in 4:3 ratio the set is inserting black bars to the left and right of the picture.

So now I am seeing gray bars! :eek: :o

I am trying to work out what is going on.

It seems that with a bright picture the bars look black (or dark gray), and with a dark picture the bars look light gray. This can vary from frame to frame. This didn't happen on the 585, where the bars always looked light gray.

I suspect smart picture or dynamic gamma, but I can't check right now as the kids are watching Nickelodeon. :)

Onmitsu,

When you have the time, please give a report of how your HD61Z786 compares to your old HD61Z575. Is there a substantial improvement in this year's model?

Thanks!

Hi everyone,

I took delivery of my HD61Z786 last Friday. I just got around to trying to tweak settings and I have a Dish 6000 connected to my TV. I have one small problem though - when watching HD content I get a small black strip of dead space down the left hand side of the TV. It's about two inches wide and I can't figure out how to get rid of it.
I know you can adjust the picture up/down, but how come not left/right?
I have my Dish 6000 STB set to 720p, I was going to see if setting it to 1080i resolved the issue.

Does anyone think this is an issue w/ the TV or could it be related to my set top box?

Thanks in advance!

I would stretch 4:3 to 16:9 for casual tv-viewing. That way you are not distracted by the side bars if that is a problem for you.

Perhaps someone knows about overscan / postion settings in a service menu? This to fix a not horizontally centered picture.

Apparently, 26,500 JVC HD-ILA Sets were recalled including the model numbers discussed in this thread. Here's a link to the news article I found: http://ga1.org/ctrw/notice-description.tcl?newsletter_id=1370062#5

This comes as quite a disappointment since I was just about to buy the 52Z575 from costco at 2199.99. Looks like it's back the the LG DLP RU models... God I hope they don't have gamelag...

-Dave

The recall is old news. It is likely that retailers are no longer selling the recalled models. I personally ensured that Best Buy deliver a later build not subject to the recall.

I personally think it's a poor reason to cross the JVC off your list. In my opinion it's the best bang for the buck out there right now.

otakonx- that's old news and not very big news. Even if you get one from Costco, a 5 minute phone call to JVC and a 10 minute tech visit makes it all good. It's attaching a simple component to a plug inside the TV. No big deal, get the set you'll be happy.

So now I am seeing gray bars!

This is what was happening:

Out of the box the TV was set to dynamic picture mode. This makes the side bars look dark when the TV picture is bright, and bright when the TV picture is dark. I had never used the mode on the old set, so wasn't used to it.

With the regular and theater settings I am getting gray bars like on the old set.

Originally posted by Kid Red
otakonx- that's old news and not very big news. Even if you get one from Costco, a 5 minute phone call to JVC and a 10 minute tech visit makes it all good. It's attaching a simple component to a plug inside the TV. No big deal, get the set you'll be happy.

Kid Red,
Thanks for the quick reply. I wasn't sure if this was cause for concern since the news article was dated only a month ago. The set looked so much sharper than the DLP's displayed next to it - IMO of course . I hope it looks just as good when the set gets here.

--Dave

Originally posted by C-Shift
Onmitsu,

When you have the time, please give a report of how your HD61Z786 compares to your old HD61Z575. Is there a substantial improvement in this year's model?

Thanks!


I won't post one big review, because then you will see how incoherent my thoughts are! I will keep it to one point per post.

I would say that the 786 is an incremental improvement over the 585, but I would not go so far as to say it is a substantial improvement. A few more inputs, the OTA tuner, some more functions (like smart picture), a few more things here and there. The optics (CA) look the same.

The remote control:

This one will drive me crazy! On the 585 remote there is a different button for each input. My two inputs are satellite and DVD. Switching takes a second or two.

On the 786 there is just one button to cycle through the inputs. I guess this is because there are so many inputs now, and they couldn't spare the space! Anyway, once you push the button you have to wait for it to switch to the next input before you can push the button again. You can't just say to yourself "three clicks will get me to DVD", and then go click-click-click. You have to go click-wait . . . click-wait . . . click-wait.

This morning I put the stop watch on how fast I could cycle through all the inputs. It took 34 seconds. THIRTY FOUR SECONDS! That would make my average time to switch between two inputs 17 seconds. :eek: :mad:

Edit: After some practice, I can now cycle through all the inputs in 18 seconds. Not so bad!

Does anyone know if the TV will still respond to the discrete input codes. I am sure JVC would not remove this capability, but I was wondering if someone could confirm this.

I could have done a quick check with the 585 remote before it went back, but that opportunity is gone now. Sorry.

lorenzow, post 318:
It's a E* 721 SD DVR. It only knows 4:3, not 16:9 so it doesn't ever add any bars.

I certainly agree with Onmitsu regarding the input button. Since all my gear except for the sat box is by JVC, I use the CompuLink system. I have it now set up to where it automatically shifts to the correct input just by pressing the device button on the receiver's remote (DVD, TV, VCR etc). This happens quickly, so I believe there must be a discrete code to directly do the switching. When I use the sat box, it shifts to the TV input and I can receive it via channel 3. However, I have also wired it with S-video to input 3 (shared with PC), for a better picture. If I want to use the S-video input, I must select input 3. Sigh.

And thanks, Onmitsu, for the bars info.

Originally posted by Ohlson

Perhaps someone knows about overscan / postion settings in a service menu? This to fix a not horizontally centered picture.


To adjust picture position and/or convergence on JVC HD-61Z786:

Set the switches at the top of the remote to "TV" and "VCR".
Push the sleep button (just below the power button) and let go. The sleep timer will display on-screen.
Then (quickly) while the sleep timer is displaying, simultaneously push the display and video status buttons. This opens the service menu.
Ignore the service menu displayed on the screen. Push 9 to access convergence. A test pattern appears on the screen.
On the test pattern there will be a red letter "R". This is for red convergence.
Push the "display" button, and the letter will change to a blue letter "B" for blue convergence.
Push the "display" button again, and the letter will change to "RGB". This is to move the entire picture around.
(One more push of the display button will return to "R", beginning the cycle again.)

With "RGB" displayed, use the up down left right arrow keys on the remote control to move the picture around. One pixel per push.
When you are happy with the positioning, push "muting" to save and "menu" to exit. The test pattern will disappear.

You can of course play with the red and blue convergence as well while you are in there, but you may decide that you would rather leave them alone . . . :D

I do, of course, not hold myself responsible for anything anyone may mess up while using the service menus . .


p.s. Overscan is 4%, measured with DVE test pattern.

Onmitsu - Did you get your set from Video only? I would be interested to know what kind of deal you got on the new set. I too have a Jan 2005 61Z585, and had screen smudges. When I went to exchange, the 70 was in the computer and I reluctantly pre-ordered it (Add 2K?). Based on what I am seeing in the early reports, the extra 2K I paid for the 70 may not be justified. VO manager swore up and down that my set would be 1080p, with a black laquer finish. Obviously he didn't know what he was talking about.

Guys, here is where I am at with the JVC. I had a 5 year old ISF calibrated Sony 61V80, standard def which was very nice for SD and DVDs. I went to Video Only (the best deals in our area) and asked what was the best micro-display technology and was pointed to the JVC. I had already heard of LCOS, it was supposed to be the silver bullet for price/performance and Intel was prediciting 1K 42" sets by this Xmas. I did not like my neighbors Hitachi LCD (Ghosting and SDE/SSE) and this looked better at the store with "Finding Nemo"

My experience in the last four weeks of heavy viewing is that this set is great for HD sources, and good DVD masters, but has some serious issues with dark source material. Purple/Green, loss of detail, blue cast, black clipping (per DVE), and convergence/CA issues. Some parts of the screen are pretty bad, and that translates into a less than optimal focus.

Before I take delivery of that 70, I have to have to see some evidence that things have gotten better with this round of sets.

If this JVC is truly the lesser of all evils (LCD vs DLP vs LCOS), and the improvements are only incremental, then I should probably just get a new 61" and live with it till 1080p sets get down to 5K.

I should have came to the forums first....live and learn.

Onmitsu - please let us know the details of PQ improvements you may or may not be seeing in your 786.

Originally posted by SHOMan
Onmitsu - Did you get your set from Video only? I would be interested to know what kind of deal you got on the new set. I too have a Jan 2005 61Z585, and had screen smudges.

My experience in the last four weeks of heavy viewing is that this set is great for HD sources, and good DVD masters, but has some serious issues with dark source material. Purple/Green, loss of detail, blue cast, black clipping (per DVE), and convergence/CA issues. Some parts of the screen are pretty bad, and that translates into a less than optimal focus.

Onmitsu - please let us know the details of PQ improvements you may or may not be seeing in your 786.


SHOMan,

I did a no charge exchange. I don't think I can say anything about pricing or store name without transgressing forum rules. (If any longer term members have a better handle on what is OK to post, I'd be happy for your input). I was pleased with my 585, and wanted the extras on "this years model". Also, I was interested to see if there was CA improvement.

After one evening of viewing I don't want to say anything too definite about picture quality (yesterday I couldn't even tell gray bars from black bars!). My first impression however is that the picture quality is the same. I looked closely at the CA/convergence, and it is exactly the same.
The new set may be managing skin-tones better (5 point vs 4 point?), but I haven't had time to check properly and my test would be highly subjective. The 585 seemed to put a faint green tinge on cheeks, and I haven't noticed it yet on the 786.

[QUOTE]Set the switches at the top of the remote to "TV" and "VCR".
Push the sleep timer button and let go. The sleep timer will display on-screen.
Then (quickly) while the sleep timer is displaying, simultaneously push the display and video status buttons. This opens the service menu.
Ignore the service menu displayed on the screen. Push 9 to access convergence. A test pattern appears on the screen.
On the test pattern there will be a red letter "R". This is for red convergence.
Push the "display" button, and the letter will change to a blue letter "B" for blue convergence.
Push the "display" button again, and the letter will change to "RGB". This is to move the entire picture around.
(One more push of the display button will return to "R", beginning the cycle again.)

With "RGB" displayed, use the up down left right arrow keys on the remote control to move the picture around. One pixel per push.
When you are happy with the positioning, push "muting" to save and "menu" to exit. The test pattern will disappear.

You can of course play with the red and blue convergence as well while you are in there, but you may decide that you would rather leave them alone QUOTE]


I followed these instructions to a T - using the 'TV' input. However, I was not able to access the service menu. Is the 'TV' input the correct input? Whenever I pushed the 'timer' button on any other input, I didn't get anything to come up.

Originally posted by Rogbib
[QUOTE]Set the switches at the top of the remote to "TV" and "VCR".
Push the sleep timer button and let go. The sleep timer will display on-screen.
QUOTE]


I followed these instructions to a T - using the 'TV' input. However, I was not able to access the service menu. Is the 'TV' input the correct input? Whenever I pushed the 'timer' button on any other input, I didn't get anything to come up.

I was at work when I typed the procedure, and didn't have the remote in front of me to refer to. :)

The sentence that says "Push the sleep timer button and let go" should say "Push the sleep button and let go". Don't push the timer button.

Good luck!

Originally posted by Jim Clark
I was getting ready to pull the trigger on one of these but I need to see one side by side with the Sony XS first. When I saw navy's set the picture on the DVD scenes we viewed looked really good to me. We did see some colors on the edges of the Starwars THX test patterns but only from close up. I think I'll take my Avia disk to a local showroom and check both the JVC and Sony to see if there's a big difference. I like the JVC's cabinet a LOT better than the Sony (stupid side speakers) but PQ is, of course, most important.

Jim

Let me know what you find out when comparing these 2 tv's because those are the exact ones I'm down to. I want to like the JVC more because it's quite a bit cheaper but the Sony xs955 always looks better regardless of which store I go to. I like your idea for comparison so that you can see them both at their best. Please post your results or email me at danehauser1@yahoo.com

Thanks!

Onmitsu - sorry, new and forgot we can't discuss price. We *can* discuss dealer names (TVA, HH Gregg, etc) - I have to assume VO, as nobody else has the set in PDX.

If in fact there is no real significant difference in PQ with these new 720P sets, then I don't think 2K more for the 70" is a very smart move. I had a 61 4:3, so I would love the 70 for 4:3 material. The 61 is a bit too small with the 4:3 stuff. I really don't care for stretching.

How many folks are expecting 70" sets in the near future?

Has anyone even seen one of the 720P 70" sets? If you saw them at CES, did the 1080p sets look that much better?

I am not happy with the way my JVC looks with dark material. I am not happy with deinterlacing and other motion artifacts I am seeing. The scaler in this set is not very good. I see purple and green when the screen is dark. I see convergence/CA issues that are worse than my old sony 61" CRT that this replaced.

It seems as though I did not wait quite long enough (5 years!) to purchase. I may just return it all and wait.

Originally posted by SHOMan
[B]Onmitsu - sorry, new and forgot we can't discuss price. We *can* discuss dealer names (TVA, HH Gregg, etc) - I have to assume VO, as nobody else has the set in PDX.
Yes - VO.

Onmitsu - thanks for the reports so far.

Is it fair to say that, so far, folks who have upgraded from 585 series are not seeing any significant PQ change for the better? Same price point (street), more features seems to be the point of these 720P models.

Maybe I should take delivery of the 70" with the provision that if it does not knock my socks off, it is coming back for a new 61" Media card reader is not signifcant feature to me. The manager assured me the set I was pre-ordering was 1080p, then I find the forums.

I want to believe that the 70G886 will not be a larger more fuzzy version of what I already have, with respect to PQ. I am also somewhat concerned about brightness believe it or not. The set I have is not very bright when calibrated with DVE in D6500K mode. And it looks green much of the time when in that mode.

Can anyone who has seen the 70G886 please comment on the set and the
"Wow" factor? I would rather watch a 19" TV for six months if it means getting a 1080p set for the same or slightly more $$.

Originally posted by SHOMan

I am not happy with the way my JVC looks with dark material. I am not happy with deinterlacing and other motion artifacts I am seeing. The scaler in this set is not very good. I see purple and green when the screen is dark. I see convergence/CA issues that are worse than my old sony 61" CRT that this replaced.

It seems as though I did not wait quite long enough (5 years!) to purchase. I may just return it all and wait.

K, let me help with some of your concerns.

JVC is fine with dark materials, Sky Captain, iRobot, both looked awesome with a good DVD player and proper calibration. It doesn't have a perfect greyscale from what I've read, but it can be calibrated quite nicely.

De-Interlacing scan lines with motion means Natural Cinema is On or set to Auto. Simply turn it OFF and all deinterlacing and motion artifacts are gone.

Purple and green in the blacks is a light engine issue and will be a 30 minute fix from a JVC tech. I've had 3.

CA is not noticeable past 3-4', so therefore not an issue unless you are right up on the screen. If then, you really only see it with white text on a dark background, or a dark foreground object on a light background. So CA is only part time and not visible from normal viewing. Not an issue really tho it would be better without it of course.

Kid Red,
You said the blues and purples can be fixed by a tech? Was this a free of charge thing or something of an upgrade you had to pay for? Thanks.

--Otakonx

The blue & purple is a defect. The TV has a defect, and should be repaired or replaced under warranty. Best done quickly. The light engine swap out can be done in home in a few minutes. Don't pay for it, don't ask- they might decide to take your money.

Originally posted by otakonx
Kid Red,
You said the blues and purples can be fixed by a tech? Was this a free of charge thing or something of an upgrade you had to pay for? Thanks.

--Otakonx

i am seeing a couple of things that look almost like dlp rainbows, nothing too irritating but why would that be? there is no color wheel , i saw it on csi on the flashlights and last night on smallville someones hat was black with some spots on it and it looked like it had rainbows, but i think only when the hat was in a certain area of the screen , sort of top middle, just to the left

nothing i really notice without looking for it but is this something that an isf calibration could eliminate or should i cancel my calibration if this looks like it could show a potential problem ?

Originally posted by navychop
The blue & purple is a defect. The TV has a defect, and should be repaired or replaced under warranty. Best done quickly. The light engine swap out can be done in home in a few minutes. Don't pay for it, don't ask- they might decide to take your money.

Would you consider this a problem with the majority of the sets or just a small few that are defective. I know Lcos is difficult to manufacture but how willing are they to come out a fix this? I’m stuck between an LG RU 44” (HD3) model DLP and the JVC 52Z575. I thought the JVC’s picture looked better than all of the DLP’s I saw on the store floor. I know both technologies have their issues but this is getting to be a very hard decision.

otakonx:
From previous posts, they usually seem very willing to come out and fix this. Read Kid Red's posts. This occurred with previous models- heard of, but how common is hard to say. Haven't heard of it with the 786/886 models, but they've just come out. I doubt it's a big problem. I love my 61Z786, I'm just so amazed the SD looks so good. Even the black and white programs look very, very good.

I also like DLP images. But after delays and failures to deliver what was advertised, and then color wheel failures, and concerns over rainbows and headaches, I moved away from DLP, Samsung and other brands. But many people are quite happy with DLP (just beware reflective screens, and don't accept "you can remove it" as a good fix on a $3,000 purchase).

There is no single "correct" answer. You'll probably be happy whatever you buy.


swenjj:
From previous posts I've read in these forums, it seems CSI in particular actually ADDS rainbow effects, especially on flashlights. Artistic license, I suppose. Now the hat business- ??? I plan to cal mine with DVE this weekend, more or less quick and dirty (meaning I'll only spend a few hours on it!) and then after I'm sure it's had at least 100 hours on the bulb I'll do it again. This will adjust blacks, and maybe it could remove artifacts like you mention. But I haven't seen that, so I don't know for sure.

yeah i was thinking that, csi seems to have alot , that thing with the hat was odd, maybe just something with the hat because it was only that, and maybe i was just looking to hard for it ,

plus working 30 hours overtime in the last week maybe my judgement is just off

once i get some time this weekend i want to sit and try to figure out the dve disc, maybe save enough money on calibration to get a new subwoofer

With 30 hours OT you might get the sub AND an ISF cal!
Or eat.

well i have three things i want, a new velodyne sub, the digital one,
a new set of main speakers, i am using some cheap pioneers, and the calibration, it is pretty much 2 out of 3 as an option , i really want a cal just because, but i plan on getting hd satelite and hd dvd next fall or when ever thats available, so doing it now might not be worth as much as doing it then

Originally posted by Kid Red
Purple and green in the blacks is a light engine issue and will be a 30 minute fix from a JVC tech. I've had 3.

Did they have to come out 3 times to fix it or did you have 3 TVs (or something else)?

Originally posted by otakonx
Kid Red,
You said the blues and purples can be fixed by a tech? Was this a free of charge thing or something of an upgrade you had to pay for? Thanks.

--Otakonx

Call JVC tell them you have color fringing green and purple corners. They'll tell you to take some pics and email them. It's free. They'll then have a local tech switch out your light engine. Takes about 30 minutes. Go thru JVC not the store you bought it at. I'm getting ready to have best buy refund my warranty because JVC has done an excellent job with me.

Originally posted by grendyl
Did they have to come out 3 times to fix it or did you have 3 TVs (or something else)?

I had 1 replacement for the interlacing motion blur before I found out it was caused by having Natural Cinema on. That set was a July build and was perfect. Go figure. The 2nd set had color fringing. I emailed JVC and took the pics and had a light engine replaced. The second one was the same so they replaced it again. The 3 one has it as well, tho not as bad it's still there. JVC said there should be no color change at all so I had the choice of another light engine or a trade in towards a new set. So I'm still on the 2nd set (1st with the 3 light engines) and will be exchanging for the new 52" when they are released.

Originally posted by otakonx
Would you consider this a problem with the majority of the sets or just a small few that are defective. I know Lcos is difficult to manufacture but how willing are they to come out a fix this? I’m stuck between an LG RU 44” (HD3) model DLP and the JVC 52Z575. I thought the JVC’s picture looked better than all of the DLP’s I saw on the store floor. I know both technologies have their issues but this is getting to be a very hard decision.

Well, when JVC replaced my light engine they sounded surprised, they were floored when the 2nd one had it as well. So, there may be some sets out there with this issue, but JVC will fix it if you have it. They will let you exchange for a new one of they can't fix it. That's what makes me glad I bought from them, a great set with great support behind them.

I haven't read any reports that the new 2nd gen sets have this issue, so it seems they fixed it.

Kid Red - thanks for the post. It seems other than the Natural Cinema issue which I can fix, my set is in need of a new light engine.

I am a little troubled by the number of light engines that seem to need replacing, and I am also curious about what happens after the initial 1 year is up with JVC. I have an extended policy, and wonder how well JVC will work with GE when and if the time comes.

I respectfully disagree regarding the CA/Convergence issue. Yes, you can't see it as well from beyond 3 feet, but it is there, and results in a slightly out of focus image.

All in all, I think the 61 is a great value, but still not sure about the 70". Very anxious to hear from someone with a 70"

Shoman- Well, I have CA (not past 3 feet) and my image isn't out of focus at all, so maybe your light engine has other issues. If, after 3 replacements the issue is still there, JVC will allow you to return the unit for a new one. That's what I'm doing when the new 52" comes out. Even the hassle of the 3 light engine replacements don't take away from what I think is a great picture. The cabinet design is what separates it from everyone else.

It won't be my light engine for long. I will either take delivery of the 70G886 with the caveat that it had better look damn good, or exchange the 61585 for a 61786. Hopefully, the 70" will blow me away and that will be the end of that. Thanks again Kid.

Originally posted by SHOMan
It won't be my light engine for long. I will either take delivery of the 70G886 with the caveat that it had better look damn good, or exchange the 61585 for a 61786. Hopefully, the 70" will blow me away and that will be the end of that. Thanks again Kid.

I think based on marketing goals JVC reserved the "Wow" factor for its next 1080p model. Otherwise why would you buy new stuff?

For that they will
- solve or drastically improve CA problems (no way not to do that at such resolutions)
- improve brightness to match Sony LCOS RPTV which uses 200W lamp (not JVCs 110W)
- improve contrast ratio from current 700 to something close of Sony's SXRD 3000 (some plasmas have 5000)
- tweak further processor power to improve image quality

So unless you are not using PC with it, and are not too peaky (say, if you can not stand digital noise, which btw doesn't annoy me :), then even don't bother to give it a shot), the current 70" models are probably OK for you. It is great for kids, for "technology hating" wifes, for many of us who never had big screens before, and of course for those with extra (but not as crazy as 13K for SXRD) money they need to spend right now. Clearly with the same crappy optics (most probably not just lenses, but lots of others glass surfaces ?) the CA on 70" will be even worse... It is probably not for many of AVS forum geeks. Though... we can think how try to improve it, by calibrating further or even mitigating CA with tweaking optical system :)

You guys in general know how chromatic aberrations appear.
It is because glass optics has inhomogeneous index of refraction along the optical spectrum. It is a bit less refractive for blue edge than for red.

Say, if we see 3-4 pixels off for blue image respect to red one at the right hand side of the screen, then that means that we have instead of 1280 vertical lines resolution only 300-400 lines at these corners.

Damn, just think about this: it's worse than S-VHS :o . Doesn't it hurt your senses? ... You will say that unless the screen is small, u don't use PC or xbox and not sit near the screen, it's not too noticeable...Keep lie to yourselves...

Basically CA make for blue channel focal distance larger which means the blue image is smaller a bit. Now, suppose focal distance of objective is 0.5", then to correct 3-4 pixels over 1280/2=640 pixels (which is 0.5-0.7%) we have to place an additional lens in blue channel of approximately 75-100" focal length. With such focal lengths such lens looks like a piece of glass and not a lens. Almost as very thin parallel slab.

Does JVC design of optical tract allow to place an additional correcting element in blue optical tract before the objective? Can anyone take a look and confirm? Green-red channel has much less visible separation, and it is harder to find the lens with twice larger focal length probably, but in principle green-red CA can be fixed this way too. One isuue is IF such lenses fit the whole tight design.

That improvement alone would make this TV set worth $6000 instead of $2.7K and falling... ;)

I cant afford the new 70", barely afford the 61", and readily afford the older model (575?) but am not hearing enough comparison between the two models. My main concern is the inability it seems to get 1:1 pixel mapping when hooked up to a PC. I can live with the CA (I think, it will be my first big screen), but dont want to be limited to 1024x768 resolution, unlike the Sammy's that have supreme PC setups (just am scared of the audio/video sync problems). This TV in BB looks sooo sweet as does the Samsungs. The first product to resolve the issues for me gets my money. I want it now, but cant buy till I find a set with 1:1 pixel mapping and no audio/video sync issues (not concerned with rainbows, never seen them in the stores). Please tell me someone has gotten there PC to work with good reolutions with powerstrip on this D-ILA or that they have a fix for the Sammy's audio/video sync issue when doing what normal people do with running their audio straight to the reciever and video straight to the TV....

DrumDude

Is there not one person out there who has a 70" yet?

Originally posted by DrumDude
Please tell me someone has gotten there PC to work with good reolutions with powerstrip on this D-ILA...
I've gotten my PC to work with my 61Z786 at 1280 X 720 through the HDMI port. I didn't do much with it other than confirm it works. Didn't need Powerstrip either - just set my ATI control panel resolution to 1280 X 720. My plan is to build a dedicated HTPC for it now. kfeltes has had success too, with an nVideo card - see here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5471650#post5471650) and here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5474415#post5474415). You might be out of luck if you want to use the VGA input at 1280 X 720.

Is this TV just an incremental improvement over last years models with more inputs, HD tuner, and maybe slightly better picture or am I missing something as to why this is a "lot" better.

Also does anyone know what the cabinet size or form will be for the 61" JVC with 1080p chip that is due out in the fall? I really like the JVC cabinet size and looks so hopefully they will have similar cabinets in the 1080p sets. Why on earth Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi, and Panasonic put 4-6 inches on each side with speakers is just beyond me. Are there many people out there who buy a 3-5K TV that don't have their own speakers and AV receiver for sound? Also the extra 8-10 inches in width causes many to downsize to the smaller TV so it will fit in their cabinetry space.

Originally posted by Xeye
You guys in general know how chromatic aberrations appear.
It is because glass optics has inhomogeneous index of refraction along the optical spectrum. It is a bit less refractive for blue edge than for red.

Say, if we see 3-4 pixels off for blue image respect to red one at the right hand side of the screen, then that means that we have instead of 1280 vertical lines resolution only 300-400 lines at these corners.

Damn, just think about this: it's worse than S-VHS :o . Doesn't it hurt your senses? ... You will say that unless the screen is small, u don't use PC or xbox and not sit near the screen, it's not too noticeable...Keep lie to yourselves...


I am in agreement with Xeye. I consider CA to be a significant weakness in JVC's D-ILA implementation. He is correct in that even if some are reporting that they don't see a difference at 10', the resolution on the edges is well under DVD standard.

Fixing CA may be expensive for JVC. It may be that they need a significant upgrade in the lenses they are using. I suspect this is well-calculated decision by JVC, figuring that they had to hit a certain price point and the number of people who would be concerned about lower resolution on off-center images would be relatively small. If so, then the level of CA we are seeing is simply a characteristic of the design and not considered a defect. Just like rainbows are not a defect in a DLP set.

I guess we can't have everything, and in 2005, we can't have nice big 61" and 70" LCOS at reasonable prices without CA.

Originally posted by DrumDude
... that they have a fix for the Sammy's audio/video sync issue when doing what normal people do with running their audio straight to the receiver and video straight to the TV....
DrumDude..

First of all, I'm not a Gamer. But, I wonder if the audio/video sync issue with Sammys is not as significant an issue as you might believe.

Based on my lurking in many Sammy and other threads, the consensus seems to be that the audio/video sync issue primarily occurs when you are sending a 480i signal directly to the display while sending the audio to a receiver. (The generally accepted explanation is that the time delay introduced in de-interlacing and up-converting the signal by the display results in the de-synchronization. This strikes me as odd since it suggests that all displays should show some degree of de-synchronization unless JVC's and others' deinterlacing/up-converting electronics and software are just that much better [faster] than Samsung.) People have reported that they do not experience any problems with synchronization when sending 480p and 720p signals along the same route. A number of gamers indicated that there are few 480i games out there for the recent game consoles and no one expects more to be produced, esp. with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD in the wings.

I can not attest to the accuracy of any of this. I'm just passing along what I've read. YMMV. Why not grab your game console(s) and a buddy, and head for the nearest B&M store to run your own tests. That's the only way to be sure.

FWIW, I'm holding out for a 1080p display in the 56" range. (Yea, I know... At my viewing distance of 10 - 11 ft., I probably can not tell the difference from 720p!) I will go with either DILA (or other LCOS variant) or dlp. My primary concern with dlp is vertical viewing angle. (To the consternation of my wife, I have spent hours looking for rainbows and have never seen one on a dlp set.) My concerns with DILA are CA and contrast. (Yea, even if I can not see CA at my viewing distance, I KNOW it's there.) My concern with both technologies is reliability. But, what would you expect reading the threads in these forums.

I probably will not make a decision until October or November when both the 1080p DILAs and dlps are available from the likes of Mitsibishi, JVC and Samsung. Then, I can sit and actually view them before I buy. (To curve my itch to buy something now, I believe I'll buy a new Harmony 880 remote when it ships in May to consolidate remotes since I now need 4 after adding DVR capability to my current SD setup. Buyer's remorse at a $200 purchase is a lot less disheartening and debilitating than for a $3000 - $6000 purchase.)

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
I am in agreement with Xeye. I consider CA to be a significant weakness in JVC's D-ILA implementation. He is correct in that even if some are reporting that they don't see a difference at 10', the resolution on the edges is well under DVD standard.
Pardon me, but who cares about the standard??

It is widely reported (and my own experience) that a defect-free JVC D-ILA shows CA only at viewing distances of 1 foot or closer. Personally, I wouldn't care if I could see the defects at 4 feet. I can't see CA at 8 feet (my viewing distance) no matter how hard I look for it.

This is not a defect, it is a manufacturing decision. The optics to produce zero CA at close viewing distances would be cost prohibitive. I'm with JVC on this one. Who cares if a 52" shows some fringing when you put your eyeballs up to the screen, if it looks perfect when viewing it from normal distances?

Ok, called my dealer and the 70 inch sets arrived yesterday...

Went out to take a look before making my decision as to whether the upgrade to 70" with the new processor would be worth it.

I gotta say that the JVC 70" stood out from EVERY OTHER microdisplay set and looked GIANT compared to a 60" hitachi parked next door.

Short story on PQ...

1. I was concerned about brightness. Checked remote, and they had picture boosted to 15, and I backed it down to 0 and it still looked very bright with great contrast. Don't worry if this is one of your qualifiers.

2. CA - I looked at both the new 61 and 70, and while the 61 didn't seem to be any better than my 585, the 70 was really very good up close. Not perfect, but good enough to make me want it. But you DO NOT want to sit close to this thing.

3. Light engine issues - They had DiscoveryHD on, so it was impossible to determine. I will have set on Sunday and report back on my blacks turning purple and green.

4. Overall sharpness and natural color - The set was very sharp, *but* you have to get about 4 feet back from this guy to not have all of the various artifacts drive you nuts. The color was too hot at the 0 setting, but I backed that off a bit and it looked better.

5. Motion artifacts - none that I couldn't see in every other set. I note that "Natural Cinema" is absent from the menu. Apparently if it is broke, throw it out.

The input switching doesn't seem as bad as has been reported. You get a menu when you press the input button. This is probably better for my wife anyway.

My overall is impression was good enough to go ahead and get it, despite the premium and looming 1080p sets. I might be dead by the time the 1080p sets come out and get cheap. It felt good to walk out of the store knowing the biggest, baddest set in the store was going to be mine!!!

Too bad it is not black....

Get out and see one if you can...One of these and an xBox might have the same effect as crack.

"Get out and see one if you can...One of these and an xBox might have the same effect as crack."

i love playing mechassault 2 on my 61 incher, just awesome

the 61 inches along with 6.1 sound is just too much fun:), i am going down tommorrow after work to pick up a 12 inch velodyne sub, that will add more fun yet

2 out of 3, eh?

swennjj - just get it over with and get all three. You work so hard you deserve it. ;)

Originally posted by RaveD
Pardon me, but who cares about the standard??

It is widely reported (and my own experience) that a defect-free JVC D-ILA shows CA only at viewing distances of 1 foot or closer. Personally, I wouldn't care if I could see the defects at 4 feet. I can't see CA at 8 feet (my viewing distance) no matter how hard I look for it.

You are talking about seeing CA.

We were talking the effect on resolution.

These are two different things. Even if you can't see the CA, the loss of resolution must be present. Given the degree of CA reported and illustrated via photos, the resolution in those areas drops to significantly below what an EDTV could do with a DVD. I would care about this. You, of course, are free to not care about it. JVC is counting on a lot of people to not care about it.

Originally posted by SHOMan
swennjj - just get it over with and get all three. You work so hard you deserve it. ;)

yeah, but in the last couple weeks i spent 3400 for a tv, 2400 for a lawn tractor,900 for a king size bed, and today i am spending 550 for a 12 inch velodyne, then deciding later on the other two,

i have spent way too much money in the last couple weeks, also we had to pay my father in law 1600 bucks we owe them, oops plus 350 for a new mini pinscher


oh man looking at that list hurts, my profit sharing is pretty much gone,maybe i shouldnt have thought about all that, and maybe i should stop spending money-well, after the velodyne at least

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
You are talking about seeing CA.

We were talking the effect on resolution.

These are two different things. Even if you can't see the CA, the loss of resolution must be present. Given the degree of CA reported and illustrated via photos, the resolution in those areas drops to significantly below what an EDTV could do with a DVD. I would care about this. You, of course, are free to not care about it. JVC is counting on a lot of people to not care about it.

I'll quote this post rather then your first. Do you personally own a JVC? Because if you do, I'd return your set. If you don't then I question how you can conclude that DVD quality on this set is 'significantly less then an EDTV' because that's just beyond absurd. You think the dozens of us JVC owners here are just blind morons? That we are all raving about our crappeir then ED sets? Come on now. Your theory is well, your theory. Resolution on the JVC is beyond ED. HD is simply stunning and lifelike, yet somehow, when playing a DVD it's below ED? What? It's simply CA. All it is or means is that

1) white text with have a 1 pixel of purple and green inside each letter (big whoop)
2) some dark objects/silhouettes can appear to have a very faint green and purple 1 pixel outline.

So, I really fail to see how you can even conclude the resolution would be effected? The edges are fine in normal lighted scenes. It's only with white on black very high contrasts scenes that it's even apparent. Typical movies/commericals/tv shows with normal everyday lighting show ZERO CA. It's only certain times it's visible. So are we just blind with our less then ED $3000 sets? Or is it maybe, just maybe, your theory about the resolution is inaccurate?

swenjj- I won't get into my painful last 2 months of spending. Custom wall entertainment center, desk wall unit for my little girl, carpet for livingroom (entertainment center room) and a few other odds and ends that add up. It's painful. I'd rather have that in the bank. We also have a min pin, congrats on your little guy.

Kid Red...

You've been cheated!!

Your post counter did not increment between posts #373 and 374.:)

Swennjj and Kid - I retract my earlier statement about getting it all. I can't get into my list of expenditures either - 70" JVC, new DVD player, a couple of Nikons and some lenses. But I did pass up the Paul McCartney tickets....:(

yeah, this is an expensive hobby isnt it, and know i have another round of expenses whenever blu ray comes out,

Originally posted by swenjj
yeah, this is an expensive hobby isnt it, and know i have another round of expenses whenever blu ray comes out,

Expenditures?
I filled the gas tank of my car today.
Shite that was expensive!

i went down to circuit city to get that velodyne 12 inch sub, they didnt have it , they said they dont stock it even though it was on their website. Their communications were down they said so they could not call another circuit city but they said they probably wouldnt have it either. So i went over to Ultimate electronics and bought a 12 inch Definitive Prosub 200TL, whatever that means, but it sounds pretty darn good, i am going to watch some good bass movies tonight, maybe underworld or something

the new tv combined with a much better sub should make it a nice movie night

What's a good TV stand height for these JVC's? My couch is about 9 feet from where the set will be. I know eye level is the key here, but I don't know the measurements from the bottom of the set to the actual screen. I'm worried that my current stand wont have the verticle alignment needed. I'll be taking a trip to IKEA sometime this week, so any help is welcome.

--Dave

Originally posted by westa6969
Disappointing feedback or lack thereof.

I've spent months on the Plasma Forum and Qualia and when reviewing threads on Quality plasma TV's it's regular to get "Jaw Dropping" "Awesome" and other hightened adjectives that run on for dozens of pages . . . . . . and it appears this thread focuses on past problematic history of the JVC units which is not a glowing testimonial comparatively what Pio/Panny/Fujitsu Plasma or Qualia Units receive. It appears the input is related to looking for problems and yet we've yet to see anyone rave about how great they are at all.




Good point.

I would just like to say that my 61Z786 picture looks jaw-droppingly awesome!! I have spent literally years pacing the TV aisles looking for a replacement for our 27" Sony, and the JVCs are the first big screens that I have actually taken the big leap and bought. Of my own free will, I exchanged my 4 week old 585 for a 786, when I could have swapped it for anything else in the store. I am very happy with my JVC, and am happy to recommend it.

These are the reasons why I bought DILA:

CRT RPTV: I have a friend who has had a 65" Mitsubishi for four years. This is what turned me on to the idea of having a big screen TV. The picture is great. The price-point is good. I could not abide the thought of having 350lb + of TV delivered, moved around, etc. My TV goes in the corner of the room, and a CRT RPTV would stick out a long way into the room, and be generally unaesthetic. A plasma screen or microdisplay RPTV can go all the way back into the corner. Also, the room is bright during the daytime, and I wanted a set that would be easily viewable in sunlight. Also, I do not stretch 4:3 and did not want the possibility of burn-in. Also, I have seen the fun-and-games he has when he adjusts convergence.

DLP: I see rainbows. In stores. I also see rainbows on our conference room projectors. They drive me crazy.
There is something else about DLP that bothers me that I do not see discussed. A kind of constant snowy shimmery static across the whole picture, especially noticeable when the picture is not moving.

LCD (RPTV): I like LCD, and came close to buying Hitachi or Panasonic earlier this year. I see screen door effect, and I guess I had prepared myself that I could live with it. Also I see some kind of macro-screen door effect - a general sense that there are horizontal and vertical lines going across the screen that are inches across. Not from the source, because they don't move. Difficult to describe properly, but I guess I could live with it. Anyway, I could never quite take the leap and pay for one.

Plasma: Too expensive. ~ 61" plasma would cost more than twice as much as the JVC. My TV goes in a corner, so I couldn't even hang a plasma on the wall so it would look cool. (My JVC goes about as far into the corner as a plasma would.)

JVC DILA. No rainbows. No "static shimmer". No screen door effect. No "macro" screen door effect. Bright! I can watch it even when the sun is shining on it through the window. Space shuttle exhaust on the DVE disk is searingly bright.
Fast action - it handles with ease (For example: Spidey vs Doc Oc, LOTR battles, I see everything - no artifacts, no blurring).
Dark levels - I have no problem with the dark level. I watch in daylight, artificial light or in the dark. Dark movies like Underworld, LOTR Two Towers (Helms Deep) look just great. I appreciate that other sets have better blacks, but it is just not something that bothers me.

Today I sat down with the kids and watched Pirates of the Caribbean. Every scene looked great - the daylight scenes, the night-time scenes, the fast action scenes. The wife walked by and said "Wow, that looks great!". High WAF! Sweet. :)

Anyway, I just wanted to say how much I like my JVC. End of rant for now . . .

Hallelujah! Thank You - Thank You - Thank You! Onmitsu

Been reading through the posts for weeks waiting for such an evaluation. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be critical other new owners but it seemed that we were rehashing past historical imperfections. I was hoping to see more of what's right and it's advantages and the enjoyment and pleasure of the experience and Bingo you hit it on the mark with your review.

Now this is more like the Qualia type feedback where yes it has imperfections also but the dominant feedback is on the enjoyment of the viewing experience and I cannot wait to hear from the new 70" buyer in the next week. Thanks again and Enjoy!

otakonx- I have a current stand about 24" high. That puts me almost dead center on the TV. I'm 6' 2", so if you're shorter, maybe look around 20" high for the stand.

The 70 will be here in a few hours. Stay tuned. But don't hold your breath, you'll turn blue.

Playoffs today, but will post at one of the half-times my initial in-home experience. Let's hope 12 feet is far enough back for the this bad boy.

Hi otakonx

On my 61Z786, the start of screen is about 9" from the base resting on my Z-Line stand. My stand is 22" high. So.. dead center of the screen for me is 46"

I am 11 feet away from the screen and I find it comfortable. Sitting relaxed on the couch, I would imagine my eyes are about 36". So, yes I am looking up a bit to see center but I have not had any strain even during extended viewing.

Cheers

Kid Red & Wishfull1,
Thanks for the imput on the stand heights. I'm looking at the older 52" 75 series since it's the size range I'm looking for. My current stand is about 25" high and I'm thinking that's too high for a 52". thanks again!

--Dave

i was wondering if you have noticed anything that look like black lines down the tv, when looking at dark material like a space scene or something it looks like faint black line s about 1/2 inch wide and 6 inches apart are on the screen, almost like a jail cell was burned in lightly, they are evenly spaced, ten of them across the entire tv

i spent a little time trying to figure it out, it is ten lines running from the top to about half way down the screen, but it seems like its only when watching a dvd with a dark scene, or the blue, when i turn it on tv i cant really see it, but it may be because i cant find a good scene to try it on, i use a denon 2200 dvd player with monster componant cables, i suppose i could unhook it and try it again but the connection seemed solid, maybe i am having player issues, the pictures seems more static or grainy than normal , the dvd player is not very old though, maybe tonight i will be able to try it on hd channels

also, does anyone have some smudges that cant be wiped off the screen? i have two that look like water or something on the screen, not very noticable but paying over three grand for a tv i dont like having a smudged screen, is that just a normal problem on digital screens?

i am very happy with this tv so i dont want to seem like i am bitching about it, just trying to get the best picture i can

swenjj - My 61Z585 has smudges on the inside of the screen, between layers. This is a potential problem with two-layer screens on most sets. During shipping the two layers can rub together just enough to create the smudges, which are actually patches of "screen dust". On the Pioneer sets I have had in the past, they used to ship them with a removable layer of plastic that you took out when you unboxed the set. However, they didn't make the sheets big enough for the larger models, and some of them had these types smudges.

It is a defect, and I wouldn't live with it for 3K.

Delivery boys called, new set is now scheduled for 5:30 to 7:30pm PDT. Nothing like a Sunday evening delivery to thrill the wife.

I'm wondering how you got them to do a weekend delivery...

Originally posted by westa6969
Hallelujah! Thank You - Thank You - Thank You! Onmitsu

Been reading through the posts for weeks waiting for such an evaluation. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be critical other new owners but it seemed that we were rehashing past historical imperfections. I was hoping to see more of what's right and it's advantages and the enjoyment and pleasure of the experience and Bingo you hit it on the mark with your review.

Now this is more like the Qualia type feedback where yes it has imperfections also but the dominant feedback is on the enjoyment of the viewing experience and I cannot wait to hear from the new 70" buyer in the next week. Thanks again and Enjoy!

Probably the reason for the focus on flaws and imperfections is because there are a lot of people reading this thread, like me, who want to know if the new models have fixed the issues from the previous model, like CA, weak black levels, etc. Pretty much any HDTV will look stunning, jaw-dropping, awesome most of the time on the right material. I find discussion of a TVs flaws much more useful because ultimately it's deciding if you can live with those flaws that will determine if the TV is right for you, since as yet no one has produced a perfect TV. This is an owners thread so you'd expect plenty of raving from people happy with their TVs, but of course owners threads attract plenty of non-owners and potential owners who want to get firsthand info from the people who already have the set as well.

I saw the 70" today at Bleekers in Kanata. The source they were showing was crappy but looked equally crappy on all the sets. I like the new cabinet design. I could even live with the silver because it doesn't have the emphasis that the 5 series had. I'm waiting for the 52" though.

Navy, local dealer does delivery on Sunday. And they bring it in the house and put it on the stand and turn it on and stuff too.

AkaStp - Regarding your points

1. Grey sidebars - not sure why this is such big issue. Doesn't bother me at all.

2. The input selector DOES bring up a menu. So it is not as bad as previously reported.

3. Menus are same, with somewhat different options than before. Again, not sure what the big deal is, I have other TVs with real fancy graphic menus and ehhhh...Once set, never really use the menus much anyway.

4. Fan noise is about same. Do you really expect the fans that cool a high output lamp to be as quiet as the fans that cool your CPU and power supply in the computer? That is not realistic. Reset the expectation. Fan noise is about the same on all these sets.

5. Screen smudges...not sure yet...in about 3 hours, I can tell you. FWIW, I have read about smudges from dual layer screens in just about every RPTV, so don't think JVC has cornered the market on that.

6. Too bright? I don't think so, but your mileage may vary. I have been ISF calibrated for years, and I kind of like not sitting in the dark all the time after having this set. Way better than most FP units I have seen. With just a LITTLE ambient light, this set has decent blacks.

7. PQ seems to have improved with the new GENESSA chip. Not 1080p, but not 1.1 either.

8. Have upconverting player coming Thursday, will report back but I am using HDMI from my E* 921 and had no problems.

These sets represent a non-trivial improvement in feature set and price/performance. Not a Qualia 006, but damn fine.

After spending a bunch of time trying to find something that looked better for the money, I failed. LCD/DLP just did not look as good. Every set I looked at had some nit you could pick. None could touch the JVC for sheer value. My wife and daughter LOVE IT. They actually watch shows on the thing, not analyze the picture. Go figure.

Bottom line, I tried to find something better than the JVC, but it ain't out there at that price point.

i dont notice my fan at all really, the smudges are there in a couple spots, but i had them on my samsung dlp as well, i suppose i will just have to live with it, unless they make it a one piece screen

has anyone had the verticle line problem i mentioned? i guess it must be something with my dvd player , which sukks because i paid alot of money for it, i guess i only plan on keeping it until (or if ) the hd dvd's come out so it isnt a huge deal


i tried to DVE it last night, ugh, i dont understand those tests at all, not sure what i was supposed to really be doing on some of them, others i couldnt tell the differences, so i suppose i will end up paying a calibrator to make it perfect, kind of odd paying over three grand for a tv, then 500 for a cal, only to watch a perfect picture through some smudges though



one thing, i still havent had much time because of too much work, but watching smallville this week in hd i noticed that the colors or black too dont fade very well, like say its fades from skin color to black you can see a couple different grades of fading instead of a smooth transition, maybe that was just the crappy signal the WB puts out, they are the worst by far in my area,

i just cant wait for tru hd on dvd, so no worrying about signal strength or cutting out , just a nice looking pic

Okay, gray screen is apparently issue for some. Yeah, they could fix pretty easy with software.

Regarding fan noise, I can tell you that my neighbors' Hitachi LCD fan is louder than mine, and he has all kinds of other neat stuff like ghosting and SDE/SSE. I think the only way to settle the issue is to put a SPL meter next to every set and publish that in the specs! I wouldn't argue that some feel the fan is louder. FWIW, the E* 921 receiver fan and hard disk are louder than my TV is.

Ok, I am now in my window of delivery and getting quite anxious. TNT-HD is providing some temporary relief. :) Some good games today!

swenjj- no problem here with vertical lines.

Regarding DVE, schedule a full afternoon or evening to get a full grip on all that is there. It's a little overwhelming at first. Hang in there.

Originally posted by SHOMan
swenjj- no problem here with vertical lines.

Regarding DVE, schedule a full afternoon or evening to get a full grip on all that is there. It's a little overwhelming at first. Hang in there.

ok, must be my denon then, too bad no one in the western wisconsin / twin cities area doesnt want a half day demo of the jvc, someone who knows DVE :)

I received my HD-61Z786 from TVA on April 12th. TVA service was very good.
I have the TV set up in the following way. The coax cable line is split with one feed sent directly to the ATSC/Digital cable in input on the TV with the other feed sent to a Motorola 6412 DVR. The DVR is connected to the TV via component. I also have an old Toshiba SD-1710 (non-progressive) DVD player connected via component cables.
My normal viewing distance is 13.5'.

The picture quality for HD programming using the internal QAM digital tuner is Outstanding! I have especially enjoyed watching a couple NBA games on ESPN-HD and a HD college baseball game on the local public tv station.
From my perspective HD sporting events seem to be sharper than HD primetime shows from ABC & NBC.
The picture quality for digital SD is very good. Thankfully the local stations output black sidebars when there is non-HD programming so I don't notice the gray sidebars.
The picture quality for analog SD is not great but it's not too bad either. I was prepared for the worst so I have been pleasantly surprised. Some channels are better than others but all are very watchable. I view analog SD through
the Motorola 6412 DVR with the DVR set to output black sidebars so I don't notice the gray sidebars often. Maybe the analog stations would be clearer using the internal tuner but I haven't tried that.
I have comfortably watched HD, digital SD and analog SD from the couch at a distance of 9ft.

As for changing inputs. The Input button does bring up a menu to choose from:
TV
Video-1
Video-2
Video-3 / PC
Video-4
Digital-In
iLink

You either have to hit the Input button multiple times to cycle through the selections or press Input and then up/down arrow but the arrow button only takes you to the next selection. You can't press the arrow key twice and have it jump two inputs.

CA may be present in these sets but I have to put my nose up to the screen to see any evidence of it. Not an issue with my set but then again I'm not the videophile some of you are.

I haven't had time to watch any movies yet using the DVD player. Maybe next weekend.

WAF = Very happy!

Has anyone else noticed that the fan has two speeds? When first turned on the fan noise isn't bad. After 40-70 minutes it kicks up to a second speed that is very noticeable. I do think this is something JVC could/should improve upon
especially for the price of these TVs.

My philosophy with most purchases is to buy exactly want you want without letting price (within reason) be a factor. If you buy something cheaper and then end up not being happy with it was it really worth the $ you saved? I work as a systems/network administrator so I'm used to having the latest and greatest technology released right after you make a purchase. I've spent the last 1.5 years researching and waiting to purchase a HDTV. Now that I pulled the trigger I have absolutely no regrets. If you are sitting on the fence, JUST BUY IT AND BE HAPPY!

swenjj - no verticle lines here either

akastp - I have black side bars (using Comcast Motorola HD box.) I even called my wife down to make sure I wasn't imagining it.

I only seem to hear the fan noise after I turn off the unit, so it's not an issue for me.
I think the PQ is great. HD is awesome, but that's true of most sets, but I was flipping around today and came accross Empire Strikes Back in 4:3 on Fox today and it was actually watchable. Not great by a long shot, but not horrible either.
As far as the set being too bright... I never saw a 61" in a store, only the 52" (575) and it was brighter than all others in the store, but I don't think that the 61" is overly bright at all.

Does this set have discrete codes for programming activities into a Harmony Remote.

Or do you have to toggle through your inputs?

I am looking to simplify the operation of my upcoming system to single button activities via a single Harmony 880 Remote. I am looking for advice on the various components to meet this goal.

for example:

MicroDisplay RPTV 60"+ - ($3500-$4500)
HDMI DVD player (depending on the quality of the Xbox) - ($200-$300)
Xbox Media Center Extender [wired network] - ($200-$300)
Media Center Edition PC for Video-Editing and file serving - ($1800-$2500)
A/V receiver with speakers and component out at least - ($800-$1200)
Surge protector, and UPS for both the HT and HTPC - ($200)
Insight Cable Motorola DCT-6412 HD Dual-Tuner DVR

All advice welcome!

Thanks,

J.T.

My 70G886 arrived this evening, and Murphy was on the job.

There is some kind of debris on the inside of the screen. Not smudges this time, but clearly small pieces of PVC that were left inside the set. Sometime after the set left JVC (I am assuming it would not pass Q/A like this) static electricity caused the loose debris to cling to the inside of the screen. Just on the left hand side. My 16 year old daughter was the first to see this.

It's late, so just a brief rundown on what I have observed so far:

The 70 is HUGE, almost too big for 12-13 foot viewing distance. The defects in compressed HD from the sat are easier to see, but not too bothersome.

The amount of CA has been significantly reduced relative to my 61585, but the overall picture appears a little softer due to the size of the screen. Get back to about 15 feet, and it looks almost like a giant plasma display.

The input switching does in fact suck as stated by others. When I saw the menu come up at the store, I didn't try pushing the button mulitple times, or try to scroll thru the input selections. Switching between inputs is not as fast.

The remote is different, due to the additional features. Of course, I can't figure out how to get it into service mode to adjust the screen position. Anyone figured out the new keypress sequence?

PQ is generally better in the standard and dynamic setting. Cinema Pro looks a little washed out and greenish. SD does in fact look better than the last series of sets. The 4:3 diagonal is about 58.5 inches, making this much closer to my old 61" Sony 4:3 set. Very nice if you don't like to stretch. DiscoveryHD looks like a million bucks. Overall, it is safe to say that PQ has improved.

I tried calibrating with DVE, but after doing so, the picture really didn't look so hot. I am not sure what I should shut off before adjusting.

The screen geometry on the set I got is not as good as the 61. There are some slight bends of the left side of the screen. That said, a crosshatch from DVE looked pretty damn good overall.

More later.

Took the laptop to the shop expecting that with it I will evaluate CA precisely with the simple test pattern of white dots where I will see how RGB are separated in the corners, top/bottom/sides and in the center (where CA supposed to be exactly zero if the set was precisely adjustment initially for convergence).

And ... guess what ? Instead I spent an hour trying bunch of different things (changing back and forth different settings, resolutions, refresh rates, color depths etcetcetc) because

- the image on the screen was looking like piece of ^@#$, and was extreeeeeemely dark and red (at the time of connection it is OK and then it rapidly dims during a second).
- letters had some visible ghosting
- it was impossible to move the PC image left or right in PC mode, so the left part of picture was behind the TV screen edge by 100 pixels or so.

I had no such problems with the plasma TV

Was no time for CA investigations. There was something wrong with the PC/JVC bundle, the green and blue were substantially suppressed, so that the texts, for example, showed the miracle: it was *NO* noticeable CA at all (of course...). While on regular TV mode at normal brightness you clearly see they are huge, i.e. R-B were approx 3 pixels off !!

Any clues ? :confused: I've read that others complained about PC connection too but for different reasons. So, is the PC VGA input which I was waiting for so long completely brocken ?

i mentioned i tried using dve, adjusting detail/brightness/tint/ some other stuff i dont understand/ but last night when i went to use the tv it was back to normal, and all the processing options were back on, why would that be? was i supposed to save it somehow?

well, i am at work and i am not positive i was checking on the dvd input of the tv, so i suppose i will check that this afternoon and get back

thats just part of the deal with too much work, not enough sleep or play time :(

i get confused too easily now without sleep :)

Per SHOMan's first impressions sounds like the "Z" series and "G" series could be significantly different PQ wise. Was that revealed anywhere? Upcoming 52" and 56" sets also have "G" in the model number. Could the 61Z886/786 just been a bridge to the HD-61FH96 1080P model due this fall?

Thoughts?

The "Z" and "G" refer to slightly different cabinet styles.

Is the 2005 Honda Accord just a bridge between the 2004 & 2006 models?

Originally posted by navychop
The "Z" and "G" refer to slightly different cabinet styles.

Is the 2005 Honda Accord just a bridge between the 2004 & 2006 models?

It's easy to be confused by the nomenclature in this case and his question was understandable. The 61" '86" is the only model with a 'Z' and that seems to be because JVC chose to use the old '5' series cabinet with the 786/886 internals. I recall some discussion a while back where someone was speculating that the G stood for Genessa...

Originally posted by otakonx
What's a good TV stand height for these JVC's? My couch is about 9 feet from where the set will be. I know eye level is the key here, but I don't know the measurements from the bottom of the set to the actual screen. I'm worried that my current stand wont have the verticle alignment needed. I'll be taking a trip to IKEA sometime this week, so any help is welcome.

--Dave

I used the Markor stand from IKEA with matching bookshelves.. not too shabby and it's solid wood (unlike most IKEA stuff).

Only draw back is that my sub vibrates the glass in the door every now and then (it sits about a foot from the console.

It's a bit high, I suppose, but you could assemble without the feet and drop it 3 or so inches. I like the height as it is, but I used to have a plasma above a fireplace so I'm used to looking slightly up. It's really not a big deal in my opinion and have checked the viewing by raising myself up/down and see no difference from verticle vantage point =/- a foot.

I have just received my 61Z886 which is replacing a 52Z575. I actually had two 52Z575’s, the first one being exchanged on the advice of my salesrep after it had smudges, which did not seem to disappear. Interesting enough on the second 52Z575 it did a lot better job with SD, with the picture being noticeably crisper. My wife even commented on this unprompted. My brother who has a 52Z575 and who lives in a different city was visiting and also remarked that the SD looked a lot better on my set. Again, this was something he brought up unprompted while watching the same SD source that he uses.

After watching the 61Z886 this weekend I love the increase in size. HD seems to look just as good as the 52Z575, except bigger. However, SD looks close to my first set which I am very disappointed about – we still watch a lot of SD with both kids programming and home and garden shows.

I am noticing more CA than I noticed with my recent 52Z575. I’m not sure if this is contributing to SD not looking as good? I can live with the CA but am not happy about the decrease in the SD quality. I’m wondering if it is the luck of the draw on how the set outputs SD, or is it just a function of a larger viewing area, or is there some type of calibration that I could do to improve it?

On another note I can confirm that the 61Z886 responds to both the discrete power codes and video input codes that work with the earlier version.

You need to adjust your set/calibrate it if the SD is not where you want it. SD on my set is GREAT!

huskerforlife, you posted a very fine review. It is well composed and what I am looking for on this thread. I am really interested in this particular set and your posting really spoke to me in terms that were useful. If you have further thoughts and observations, please post them.

Originally posted by navychop
You need to adjust your set/calibrate it if the SD is not where you want it. SD on my set is GREAT!

Hi Navychop all three of my sets have been left at the factory default and this is why I thought it might depend on the unit itself. HD has looked equally stellar on all three sets but SD was about 20% better with my second 575. The picture looks grainy and not sharp. Any suggestions on what I should be adjusting would be greatly appreciated. My wife is questioning why we spent the extra dollars to upgrade.

Thanks

Pete

Get a THX movie. At the main menu you'll see an "Options" selection. Follow the directions and you should have it fairly well tweaked.

Or get Avia or DVE and give them a whirl. I think each set and the viewing conditions will be a little different, so my settings may not be the same as your settings. Plus, my TV OTA and other input settings are a bit different from each other.

Navy, what is a THX movie and where do you get it?

Thanks for the suggestion. MY DVD changer broke down last week and it will probably be a few days before I get it back. Once I do I will see if I can improve the SD quality.

Pete

Stan,
One THX movie is "The Incredibles"

Stan54:

THX is the latest & greatest version of surround sound. Many movies have it, you'll see "THX" on the label somewhere. For a list of movies with THX surround sound, look here. (http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/dvdFind.html) Just press the "select" button to see the list. Various Star Wars movies have it.

These movies will give you an option of adjusting your set to display the movie "as the director intended." It's a pretty good overall setup. Calibration disc could probably do better, certainly an ISF cal could. But you probably already have at least one THX certified movie so the calibration will cost you nothing but a little time.

Originally posted by Stan54
Navy, what is a THX movie and where do you get it?

Lucas Films includes two short calibration programs (audio and video) on DVDs which are THX certified. These would be the Star War movies, Indiana Jones, etc.

Originally posted by Franchot
Lucas Films includes two short calibration programs (audio and video) on DVDs which are THX certified. These would be the Star War movies, Indiana Jones, etc.

monsters inc as well i think

http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvdFind.html

Personally I feel optimization done with DVD is affected a great deal by the DVD player, cabling and type of connection used. Like navychop said, each input will be slightly different. THX optimization will get you in the ballpark, but you'll still have to tweak from there.

If you really want to nail the settings you need to find scenes from your source that allow you to dial it in (this is alot easier if you have a DVR and can pause on a scene). Find a dark scene and use that to adjust your brightness so blacks look as dark as possible but details aren't getting lost. Find a really bright scene and do the same with contrast/brightness. Grass and sky for color settings, flesh tones for tint. Then you just have to experiment with the various digital enhancements and noise reduction settings and figure out if it looks better on or off (usually off).

And if you're like me, you'll probably find yourself going back to those settings repeatedly over the next few weeks to make minor adjustments. Eventually you'll get there... or get sick of tweaking and just say "it's good enough, now I'm just gonna enjoy some TV"... or pay a lot of money for a professional calibrator.

Originally posted by SHOMan
More later.

Thanks for your initial impressions. I'm very interested in picking up one of these TVs at the 70 inch size. Now, I'm anxiously awaiting your "More later." No hurry, or course. :)

This is the best opportunity I've had to explore this just a little with people that have had some experience.

I do what Empire describes in his second paragraph to every conventional tv set I have ever owned and in exactly the same manner. (brightness, contrast, color and tint) ............ exactly! Usually, I turn off or minimize every other adjustment that the brand offers because they don't usually make things better.

Is this all that you are talking about or is there something else with an HD set that I am not picking up on?

I think that the technician calibration involves using a service menu that the ordinary user should probably stay away from. Am I correct in that regard? Does a calibration technician go inside the set or use equipment or tools that the ordinary owner does not posess?

This is pretty basic and I apologize. Thanks.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/isf/isf.html you can learn some calibration stuff here

Stan54, you can get a good feel for what sort of changes a calibration involves from these threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=331875
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=465144

Sorry they are for Sony instead of JVC, but I don't know a comparable JVC example.

Here is the service manual for last year's JVC sets:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=455897

From these threads you can judge the difficulty and risk of using the service menu. You'll see how some of the changes are best done with special measurement equipment, but for some the eyeball approach is all you need.

Also, via searches at amazon, google and at this site you can read about DVDs from Avia and DVE (Digital Video Essentials), which provide lots of useful test patterns and instruction about setting the user level settings as best as possible (or at least as "correctly" as possible, according to standards).

Hello All!
Thanks for the great info. I'm getting my 786 in a couple of days and wanted to know what size and brand stand-by power supplies I should be considering for this TV.
Thanks again.

Originally posted by Onmitsu


The [786] may be managing skin-tones better [than the 585] (5 point vs 4 point?), but I haven't had time to check properly and my test would be highly subjective. The 585 seemed to put a faint green tinge on cheeks, and I haven't noticed it yet on the 786.
After a week of watching the 61Z786, I have seen no green tinge on faces. All flesh tones look natural. I don't know if my 61Z585 had some small light leak in the engine, or if it is the new 5 point color management that has improved the picture. :confused:

Anyway - my 786 has better color fidelity than my 585 had. :)

Xeye,

Any further update on connecting a PC through the VGA connector?I am very interested in seeing how this works out for you. I really like this Set but am leary about purchasing it as my main use for it would be as a computer monitor and if the VGA connector does not function well then it will not do me any good. Can anyone else post on thier experenxe with the VGA connector, please?

Tfslionsfan,

Here is a picture of the upper right corner of my HD 61Z786 with my laptop outputting a 1024x768 pixels signal to the VGA input. I have the aspect ratio set to FULL as I think the text is a little clearer in that mode. I see very little if any CA. I received my TV on April 14th even though is was scheduled to arrive by April 12th. I bought it from TV-Authority and it arrived in excellent condition. The two day delay was due to the shipping co.

Here are some photos I took of my 61Z585 and 61Z786:

The TV pictures are from a Sony progressive scan DVD player connected using the component inputs. Mostly they are of paused pictures, although the 786 shuttle pictures were moving.

Close-ups of DVE geometry test pattern. I snagged and pasted the photos. The maximum CA is about one pixel on the right of the screen. On the rest of the screen it is about half a pixel or less.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=240675

DVE geometry test pattern full-screen from 7 feet away. I usually sit about 12 feet away. The lower picture looks a little less sharp because the camera was not perfectly focused. Notice that you cannot see any CA from this distance. The camera is tilted a bit - not the TVs.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=240677

Space Shuttle launch from the DVE disk. A good time to have a very bright TV! The exhaust is dazzlingly bright to the eye.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=240678

Space shuttle in orbit. I left the screen surroundings in the pictures so you can get an idea of the black level.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=240680

Gandalf the White. The 585 photo is a bit darker because of the camera exposure, not the TV. So where is the CA? None on the left or the middle of the screen (look carefully at the hairs). Look carefully at Gandalf's sleeve on the right. You can just see a faint purple tinge to the edge of the cuff, and a faint green tinge to the edge of the sleeve on the right. Can't see it? Look reeeaaally carefully. That's it.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=240681

My local HHGregg now has the 70G886 on display. What an awesome looking set!! A little better looking than the Z's, and the picture is awesome, especially for a 70" set.

I can't wait for the 56 and 52 to arrive!

Originally posted by Onmitsu
Here are some photos I took of my 61Z585 and 61Z786:

Gandalf the White. The 585 photo is a bit darker because of the camera exposure, not the TV. So where is the CA? None on the left or the middle of the screen (look carefully at the hairs). Look carefully at Gandalf's sleeve on the right. You can just see a faint purple tinge to the edge of the cuff, and a faint green tinge to the edge of the sleeve on the right. Can't see it? Look reeeaaally carefully. That's it.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=240681

Onmitsu, I have to say both sets look pretty good. I'm impressed. Yes, I can just make out the tinge on Gandalf's cuff on the 585 shot. It isn't present on the 786. Thanks for posting the shots.

Onmitsu - thanks for taking the time to document the old set before letting it go. Your set looks great!

I know people are waiting to hear more about the 70". I have been busy the last couple of days. I will get my replacement set tomorrow and if it is free of screen debris and the star fields in Star Wars are not purple, I will start tweaking and get some more info to you all.

I did hook up my laptop to the set tonight just for fun. The 1024x768 limitation sucks a bit. That said, I just put it in FULL mode and it looked very nice. You can see some slight ca if you get right up on the screen, but nothing to affect normal viewing. It may not look like the Qualia, but it is very good with a PC. I would be interested in anyone who had a HTPC with a better card.

American Idol looked really nice (OTA). TNT Post-NBA shows just explodes with detail and color.

My purple glow only seems to happen when going to black material, and so must be some kind of light engine glitch of some kind. Hopefully the new set will take care of that, as I did not see the same thing at the store, and I saw two different sets.

If anyone has any specific questions that pertain to the 70" set, let me know.

tfslionsfan - I did not have time to hook up laptop to another set yet, hopefully sometime before Friday. The boss of this Video Only shop planned to call JVC and find out what the heck happened with PC input. But I will tell you that the regular small texts you use on PC with 61z786 look crappy compared to any front 1024x768 projectors i used (and I used many for presentations), don't even mentioning quality of laptop own 1400x1024 screen or external Samsung 24" 1920x1200 monitor...If PC link works, then it's sure not for programming work, it's just for quick internet browsing, email and images if you don't like to brake your eyes. We have to wait next gen high-res monitors from JVC or ... buy Qualia 006. No doubt that ideally TV and PC images have to be similarly great. And they will in a year or two...
Damn, why nobody makes LCOS 3-chip TVs besides JVC (and very little Philips and Mitsu, I think. I even do not count Sony right now) to boost the competition and improve quality? The fact that LCOS has twice larger contrast ratio (700-1000:1) compared to LCD (400:1) and there are 3 chips used in LCOS designs of these TVs instead of one like in DLP makes these TVs so bright. LCOS 3chip TVs use RGB spectrum of lamp source much more efficiently,while DLP at any given moment filters 2/3 of the spectrum off. Other factors matter much less.

Omnitsu - what is the width of cross (in pixels) on test pattern ?
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=240675

Omnitsu, Lloydyo, SHOMan - do pictures and movies played from PC DVD drive or mpeg look bright and natural ? I know they definitely do on plasma TVs. Do you need change your regular settings of the TV set to see image from PC better so that you can watch regular TV channels and in another window simultaneously watch PC stuff ? Can you publish pictures ?

How life is sometimes unfair: when you change your front projector image size from 50" to 60", to 70" and even 100" you pay nothing.

When you change your rear projection TV size from 50" to 60", to 70" (and I even don't mention 100") you pay each time 1-2 grands more. For what, for 50 pounds more plastic ? :mad:

Originally posted by Xeye

Omnitsu, Lloydyo, SHOMan - do pictures and movies played from PC DVD drive or mpeg look bright and natural ? I know they definitely do on plasma TVs. Do you need change your regular settings of the TV set to better see image from PC properly so that you can watch regular TV channels and in another window simultaneously watch PC stuff ? Can you publish pictures ?

Movies look pretty good. Not like a DVD player hooked up with HDMI, but good. On my set, I would like to turn down the brigtness on the PC, but my laptop has no gamma adjustment, and using the set to do it would change anything that used the picture mode I modify.

Although I havn't tried it, I don't think PIP will work when you are using digital inputs as source.

To clarify, I know VGA is analog. What I meant was I am usually watching TV thru the HDMI input, and I can't seem to mix the two.

I want to connect my XP laptop to the new DILA HD61Z786 tv using Firewire for playing MPEG2 streams and pictures. I know that this tv has a VGA port but it is not satisfactory.

I tried connecting my PC to the tv using firewire. Neither the tv or the PC recognize the other on the wire. I wasn't really expecting them to, but I tried the same thing with Motorola 6412 and both the PC and the Moto recognized that there was something at the other end of the firewire. The TV does not even recognize the Moto box.

Now, the tv manual says that firewire will only work with the JVC DVHS or HD camcorders. But I was wondering that if the DVHS can connect to the Moto or the tv OOTB, then why can't the Moto connect to the tv OOTB. More importantly, and relevant to this forum, it appears that it should be possible to connect a laptop to the new DILA tvs using firewire.

Anybody have any leads on how to do this?

Thanks much

Xeye,

You may want to keep an eye on the upcoming LG 1080p LCOS, which will reportedly have slightly better response time and contrast and a significantly better OTA tuner than the Qualia at a much lower price.

Xeye- As commented above, Spatialight makes LCoS chips and has LG (large Korean multinational firm) as a customer, and may be about to sign up at least one more. eLCOS also makes chips, but I'm not sure who their customers are (Olevia?).

I am posting on this thread for information because I inadvertently started a new thread.

JVC 70 inch DILA

The picture on the DILA 70 inch in HD is incredible. When watching a basketball or baseball game it gives you the sense of being there. The colors are smooth, black levels are good. In SD on DTV, I was surprise to see how good the picture is. I was expecting the worst. On cable the picture was terrible but I believe I have a problem with my cable. This will become a weekend project to try and isolate. The PQ on this set is the best I have seen. I have not seen the Qualia but I have seen the Mitsubishi 82 inch LCOS. Definitely, this set appears to be a "Winner".

if anyone is interested, i am getting my 61 inch professionally calibrated on may 6th, next friday, do they give me things like results i could post on here? some changes and stuff, i will give my review of it that night or saturday,

Originally posted by swenjj
if anyone is interested, i am getting my 61 inch professionally calibrated on may 6th, next friday, do they give me things like results i could post on here? some changes and stuff, i will give my review of it that night or saturday,

Swenjj - If the person is ISF certified, they should have an "official" ISF calibration sheet they leave with you. Describes room conditions, etc as well as giving you the before and after color temps for each IRE level.

I would be very interested to see how off 6500K on this set is.

Also, I did get my new 70" set, and the purple glow is gone and the picture is WOW!!!. One little problem, the set had a small ding in the screen, so waiting on yet another. JVC must have a bit of a QA issue somewhere.

That said, this picture is outstanding, and I can confirm that SD material is looking really very nice. HD is just mind blowing.

yeah, he is at www.hdtvguy.com talking to people he is very good at what he does, maybe i should get a new scanner this weekend, i can post whatever he gives me

do you know how to check the lamp timer? just to make sure i have 100 hours or so on it by next friday

Onmitsu - what is the width of the cross (in pixels) on the test pattern?
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=240675
Short answer:
The cross is three pixels wide.

Long answer:
The three color components of the cross can be moved apart and inspected individually.
The green and blue components of the cross are exactly three pixels wide on the screen. The individual pixels can be clearly distinguished.
The red component of the cross appears more like 3.5 to 4 pixels wide. It has a solid region that is about 3 pixels wide, or slightly more. There is a less solid blur on the side of the cross towards the center of the screen, which is 0.5 to 1 pixel wide. The individual pixels in the red cross cannot be clearly distinguished visually.

interesting. I would think the blue channel would be the one to compromise on, since it is the most narrow band in the color spectrum and one the human eye is least sensitive to.

Originally posted by swenjj
if anyone is interested, i am getting my 61 inch professionally calibrated on may 6th, next friday, do they give me things like results i could post on here? some changes and stuff, i will give my review of it that night or saturday,

It'll be great to hear about your cal experience!! What all he does... Worth the cash etc... Good Luck :) :)

To all of the lucky new owners-

What DVD players do you have hooked up and what are your impressions. I'm planning on jumping on a 56" once it comes out, and am wondering what sources are gonna play nicely.

Thanks,
Jason

i have a denon 2200, i have notice a few lines on the screen , but i havent had time to unhook it and try again, new cables or something,

i think today i am finally done with overtime, i put 45 hours or so in the last 3 weeks, ugh, but it is paying for my new sub and calibration:)

Down- The Zenith 318 for cheap, the Denon 2900 for extra cash. I've had both and both work nicely with the JVC> Of course, the Zenith can't compare with the Denon which was $400 more.

I'll more specifically ask, has anyone used the oppo 971h with a d-ila? I'm leaning real heavily towards this combo, but wondering how susceptible it may be to mb, as I know that mb is pretty display dependent.

Thanks,
Jason

I have the Oppo with the HD-52Z575. I haven't watched many DVDs but on one in particular (Peter Gabriel: Growing Up Live) the macroblocking is very bad, to the point of being extremely distracting.

I haven't done a proper calibration of the TV yet, but I did fiddle with the settings to see if I could reduce the macroblocking. I have not had much success, other than to turn the picture control down to about -20 which of course crushes blacks.

I'm hopeful that a more proper calibration of the TV will reduce the macroblocking, or that maybe this DVD is particularly bad, but I am fearing that the JVC is one of those TVs that is very sensitive to the Faroujda macroblock enhance bug.

Originally posted by RaveD
I have the Oppo with the HD-52Z575. I haven't watched many DVDs but on one in particular (Peter Gabriel: Growing Up Live) the macroblocking is very bad, to the point of being extremely distracting.

I haven't done a proper calibration of the TV yet, but I did fiddle with the settings to see if I could reduce the macroblocking. I have not had much success, other than to turn the picture control down to about -20 which of course crushes blacks.

I'm hopeful that a more proper calibration of the TV will reduce the macroblocking, or that maybe this DVD is particularly bad, but I am fearing that the JVC is one of those TVs that is very sensitive to the Faroujda macroblock enhance bug.

Your post on the oppo thread is what has me second guessing.:)

Originally posted by Kid Red
Down- The Zenith 318 for cheap, the Denon 2900 for extra cash. I've had both and both work nicely with the JVC> Of course, the Zenith can't compare with the Denon which was $400 more.

This makes me wonder...isn't the chip in the dvb318 comparable to the oppo? Did you not have major mb issues w/ the Zenith? It's tough for me to discern, cause I'm coming from a OLD 27", so I'm sure I won't have the discerning eye that many have (I very well may not even notice mb), but I despise buyers remorse.

Thanks for the input!

folks.
I know this JVC DiLA RP has 1000 CR which is still inferior to DLP but kills LCD easily. :cool:
how about brightness, lamp lifetime?
any bowing like Tosh DLP when display 4:3?
when watch 4:3 source on 16:9 mode, side bars are black or gray?
fan noise level?
can it display correct aspect ratios in POP? 4:3 + 16:9, 16:9 + 16:9. can both L/R windows show HD sources simultaneously?
viewing angles of H/V?
tks.

Originally posted by swenjj
i have a denon 2200, i have notice a few lines on the screen , but i havent had time to unhook it and try again, new cables or something,

i think today i am finally done with overtime, i put 45 hours or so in the last 3 weeks, ugh, but it is paying for my new sub and calibration:)

looking at it a bit more, i see the lines when i have the dvd player on, displaying dark scenes or the blue screen on stop, but unhooking the cables i dont see it on the grey screen, so it looks like it is nothing with the tv unless it just doesnt like my denon

i will ask about this in the dvd area now since it looks like its not the jvc

Originally posted by Down
Your post on the oppo thread is what has me second guessing.:)



This makes me wonder...isn't the chip in the dvb318 comparable to the oppo?
Yes I think the Zenith uses the same Faroudja. I've read about various other issues with its DVI output, but don't know about macroblocking.

Since my last post, I've experimented more with the TV settings and watched a few other DVDs. I can confirm that the Peter Gabriel DVD is particularly bad (though another person on the Oppo thread indicated he saw no macroblocking on this disc). I see a little macroblocking on other titles, but it is acceptable, especially given the overall PQ of the Oppo.

I did find that the "Dynamic Gamma" setting on the JVC must be disabled. Turning it on revealed tons of macroblocking that I could not otherwise see. I'm still waiting for DVE to do a proper calibration of the set.

Tried PC link with 3 JVC 61" and 70" TVs and 2 or 3 different plasma TVs.

JVC shows same reddish dark image.
All plasmas produce bright perfect image.
As I said, I used this laptop (Dell C600, Radeon videocard, XP) with numerous projectors and had no problems...

Tomorrow will try new laptop with JVC,
the only what's left to suspect is that JVC by some reason
does not like Mr.Dell
;)

Damn, now I understand why some salespeople are not happy with JVC...

Originally posted by navychop
Xeye- As commented above, Spatialight makes LCoS chips and has LG (large Korean multinational firm) as a customer, and may be about to sign up at least one more. eLCOS also makes chips, but I'm not sure who their customers are (Olevia?).


navychop, ericlhyman -

Yea, I agree 2000:1 contrast sounds promissing
http://www.spatialight.com/Products/1920scdtv.htm
Its 2-3 times better than current one (JVC claims 1000:1 but in reality
it was measured 700 at least for 61z575)

And 1080 is not something extraourdinary. They all can do that,
the imaging technology is just waiting for years. I even don't mention electronics. JVC has developed even larger LCoS matrices and keeps it under the hood. Damn marketing...

Am I right that LCOS light engine uses polarisers (it has to, right?)
but, logically, DLP does not ? I do not see reference on that in JVC service manual.

Can you point at any service manuals for DLP TVs to look at detailed schematics which explains why the heck there is no 3chip DLP TVs? I dont think its just DLP chip cost difference compared to LCOS microdisplays.

I'm sorry for consequitive posts, but nobody posted for almost entire day...

Originally posted by RaveD
Yes I think the Zenith uses the same Faroudja. I've read about various other issues with its DVI output, but don't know about macroblocking.

Since my last post, I've experimented more with the TV settings and watched a few other DVDs. I can confirm that the Peter Gabriel DVD is particularly bad (though another person on the Oppo thread indicated he saw no macroblocking on this disc). I see a little macroblocking on other titles, but it is acceptable, especially given the overall PQ of the Oppo.

I did find that the "Dynamic Gamma" setting on the JVC must be disabled. Turning it on revealed tons of macroblocking that I could not otherwise see. I'm still waiting for DVE to do a proper calibration of the set.

Well, that sounds a bit more promising. At this point, I'm down to 2 options I'm considering-

Picking up the Oppo and if the mb IS pretty bad for me, just using the component connection on it.

OR

Picking up a Pio 588a and being done with it.

Wish I could see more peoples experience with the Oppo over component (even though I know it's not gonna be stellar, it'd be nice to know whether it's a viable option to fall back on if the mb is real bad).

Boy this tread has fizzled:( :( :( :(

Where is all the good news??
The "man this thing is awesome!"
The "wow stunning picture!"
The "this" The "that" ??????

Is anyone buying this TV? Or is just not good enough to talk about anymore? Or is all of the new owners just staring at their TVs like zombies in udder amazement... completely speechless?? :p

I hope it's the later.... I've been waiting to see the 52G786...

Originally posted by Xeye
And 1080 is not something extraourdinary. They all can do that,
the imaging technology is just waiting for years. I even don't mention electronics. JVC has developed even larger LCoS matrices and keeps it under the hood. Damn marketing...

But I think it's a matter if yield and the number of assembled units within a time window for profitability- not whether they can make a chip with that resolution or not. They have the technology, but there are so many more variables that help decide when and if they go into making a line of RPTVs or not.

Originally posted by Down
Your post on the oppo thread is what has me second guessing.:)



This makes me wonder...isn't the chip in the dvb318 comparable to the oppo? Did you not have major mb issues w/ the Zenith? It's tough for me to discern, cause I'm coming from a OLD 27", so I'm sure I won't have the discerning eye that many have (I very well may not even notice mb), but I despise buyers remorse.

Thanks for the input!

The Zenith did have MB. However, it's not on all DVDs and can be greatly minimized by turning down brightness. You see it more the brighter your set. If calibrated correctly, the MB isn't very noticeable.


Anyone with a new model check out the light bulb area or the light engine? Wondering if this set will be able to use the filter mod if the light engine has changed.

Originally posted by RowdyUSP40
Or is all of the new owners just staring at their TVs like zombies in udder amazement... completely speechless?? :p

I hope it's the later.... I've been waiting to see the 52G786...

It may be just self-preservation. Once someone makes a major purchase, it's not healthy to come back here and read about everyone that's taken a magnifying glass to every pixel.

Originally posted by RowdyUSP40
Boy this tread has fizzled:( :( :( :(

Where is all the good news??
The "man this thing is awesome!"
The "wow stunning picture!"
The "this" The "that" ??????

Is anyone buying this TV? Or is just not good enough to talk about anymore? Or is all of the new owners just staring at their TVs like zombies in udder amazement... completely speechless?? :p

I hope it's the later.... I've been waiting to see the 52G786...

I for one am busy watching my set, and have been enjoying it very much. The PQ *is* stunning. The off-air tuner is far better than my Dish 921. HDMI with Sony upconverting player (NS975) is very film-like. Component input is not far behind. Outstanding PQ really. CA has improved over last years sets.

Some folks are asking about the dimensions of the forthcoming sets with the new bezel. Based on what I am seeing in my G886, the sets should be about the same size as last years models. While the bezel is thin in front, it actually slants outwards as you go back towards the rear of the set. It gives the illusion of being thinner than it really is.

On the issue of the laptop user having a dark picture, I had same problem but adjusted the external monitor sync on my laptop and it got nice and bright. Not an issue with the set.

The folks who have been over to see my set think it is great.

Originally posted by Down
Well, that sounds a bit more promising. At this point, I'm down to 2 options I'm considering-

Picking up the Oppo and if the mb IS pretty bad for me, just using the component connection on it.

OR

Picking up a Pio 588a and being done with it.

Wish I could see more peoples experience with the Oppo over component (even though I know it's not gonna be stellar, it'd be nice to know whether it's a viable option to fall back on if the mb is real bad).
No, don't bother. The Oppo only does 480i over component, and its quality is not necessarily better than much less expensive players. Consider the Oppo a DVI player only.

If macroblocking really bothers you, and if in fact the JVC via HDMI is particularly sensitive to it, then any Faroujda player is probably not for you. I'm still not 100% sure I'm keeping the player past its 30-day guarante ... have to try out a lot more DVDs first to verify that I can live with the MB.

I'm still very happy with the set!!!

Is anyone interested in me starting a dedicated thread in the HTPC forum using this tv as a monitor?

I'm having very good luck using it as a computer monitor.

Why are we talking soooo much aout DVD playetrs in general? Is all this talk aout DVD players specific to THIS TV or just in general? If just in general then the DVD talk needs to be taken to DVD forum.

I too want to hear specifics aout the differences in this generation JVC and last years models. I also want to know any rumors on the 1080p units such as extra bells and whistles in addition to the 1080p.

One specific question is to the internal OTA tuner. Does anyone know who made this tuner and what generation of tuner it is? Is it a current 4th generation tuner or what? Any comparisons to other tuners? I saw where someone said it was etter than the DISH tuner ut any idea how it compares to the LG 4200 which most consider the est OTA tuner? And speaking of LG, will they have their 5th generation OTA tuner built into their LCOS unit to come out this year?

It is hard to label a tuner by generation. A second generation brand X might be equivalent to a fourth gen brand Y. There are no standards across brand lines.

I have the JVC 61Z786 and the LG-4200A (on a different TV). The JVC is not quite as good a tuner. I get more stations on the LG. Of course, this (4th generation) LG tuner is reputed to be the best, exceeded only by the 5th generation LG (currently available only on the WalMart unit, which has other features lacking).

Originally posted by TNVOL
Why are we talking soooo much aout DVD playetrs in general? Is all this talk aout DVD players specific to THIS TV or just in general? If just in general then the DVD talk needs to be taken to DVD forum.


Actually, it hasn't been about DVD players in general, it's been about DVD players' performance on these sets. A quick look a few posts back would have uncovered this post, which started the DVD talk-

Originally posted by Down
I'll more specifically ask, has anyone used the oppo 971h with a d-ila? I'm leaning real heavily towards this combo, but wondering how susceptible it may be to mb, as I know that mb is pretty display dependent.

Thanks,
Jason

Originally posted by RaveD
No, don't bother. The Oppo only does 480i over component, and its quality is not necessarily better than much less expensive players. Consider the Oppo a DVI player only.

If macroblocking really bothers you, and if in fact the JVC via HDMI is particularly sensitive to it, then any Faroujda player is probably not for you. I'm still not 100% sure I'm keeping the player past its 30-day guarante ... have to try out a lot more DVDs first to verify that I can live with the MB.

See, what throws a wrench into that line of thought is that I really would like a region free, pal-ntsc DVD player, too. When I consider that, I'm wondering whether a roll of the dice is worth it. MB very well may not bother me in the least, and if the oppo's performance over component is even the same as cheaper players, the region/pal conversion may sway me...

Still wish I could hear some more opinions from oppo users on these DILAS, though:cool:

Originally posted by kfeltes
I'm still very happy with the set!!!

Is anyone interested in me starting a dedicated thread in the HTPC forum using this tv as a monitor?

I'm having very good luck using it as a computer monitor.

YES! I didn't think anyone was having much luck using it with an htpc. I would love to hear some good things in that respect. I've been holding out, hoping that JVC would get their act together - especially with the upcoming 1080P sets. I want to use something like Xlobby to make it easy to use - music, movies, hdtv, satellite, pc games, home control...

Are you able to get 1:1 pixel mapping and characters without color fringing?

Yup, the PC problems i mentioned above were due to Dell - JVC incompatibility. The specific laptop of course, not all Dells. I took another Dell laptop and all went fine. Second laptop has smaller native resolution 1024x768 though.

Navy and others who had connected this set via VGA - do you have your laptops with 1024x768 native resolution or higher?

It might be that first PC needs a bit newer videodriver which i dont like to do because the new one will restrict me to lower resolutions not much exceeding native 1400x1050 one. The 1600x1200 and 1920x1200 which i use with external monitor will be gone...

Anyone knows any new laptop models with DVI output? I assume connection via DVI/HDMI works fine.

It is possible to experiment with PC-to-TV converters. But don't all existing converters lose the bandwidth?

RowdyUSP40

I agree - this thread has gotten really bad everytime you return someone is talking about their DVD player and PC use this is a thread on the TV if we want to know what good external components to use we can visit those threads.

Let's talk up the product at hand or I mean real feedback instead of it's external components as there hasn't been much raving about it here. Some of us don't give a damn whether this thing works with a PC, I manage a huge network and I personally don't give a damn after all day if I go home and can see a my app's 10 times larger unless it's a hot babe but then I'll go to the HTPC section and work there not here. Same goes with DVD's.

This thread has become a component htpc thread rather than reviews of the TV >90% of this has nothing to do with the TV feedback at all and it either hasn't impressed or it's so great no one returns to update us. But all this fluff that has nothing to do with the TV - If we're studying to buy a $5K TV who cares about the DVD Player or go research it in the proper forum. This is not the DVD or the HTPC Thread. Why don't the HTPC inquiring folks take their discussion over there to HTPC?

This thread has 24 pages and I would bet less than 2 pages are feedback on the TV PQ and Performance the rest is dealing with external components and PROBLEMS not glowing reports.

Originally posted by westa6969
RowdyUSP40

I agree - this thread has gotten really bad everytime you return someone is talking about their DVD player and PC use this is a thread on the TV if we want to know what good external components to use we can visit those threads.


I disagree. We are talking specifically about compatibility with the JVC D-ILA sets. It is a fact that certain DVD players have compatability issues and varying performance with certain TVs. Discussion of DVD player compatibility with the JVC D-ILA is certainly on topic here.

The point is, the JVC D-ILA HDMI input seems to be sensitive to the Faroujda macroblock enhance bug. That is how this discussion started.

Maybe you should just use the scrollbar instead of adding to the noise...

YOU ARE THE NOISE!

Originally posted by westa6969
YOU ARE THE NOISE! No... actually YOU are. This is an 'owners' thread. See the title. If 'shoppers' or 'browsers' find useful info then good for them! As an owner I want to see others opinions on good DVD players to use with this particular set. As an owner I want to see others opinions on most effect HTPC hookups with this particular set. Who appointed you thread monitor?

I came here for knowledge but left entertained.....2 for the price of 1.

Wishful JVC owner wondering how the heck to get a 70" in the basement.

Originally posted by DonDougan
No... actually YOU are. This is an 'owners' thread. See the title. If 'shoppers' or 'browsers' find useful info then good for them! As an owner I want to see others opinions on good DVD players to use with this particular set. As an owner I want to see others opinions on most effect HTPC hookups with this particular set. Who appointed you thread monitor?

yep, i have an issue that i was wondering if its something with my denon 2200 or jvc, i have some time actually now to figure it out but asking on here if someone had a problem should be ok

To those that think the thread has drifted:

People who are interested FAR OUTNUMBER the actual owners. In fact, most retailers are still sellng the 575/585 units. There are not many of us that are lucky enough to have the new sets.

So, pull back the flame throwers and go over to the Qualia thread where you will find the same thing going on. The owners threads are just that, for owners to discuss their sets and associated topics related to the ownership of that set.

So, if you are not an owner, why not CHILL just a bit, and quit demanding information from the owners.

Or, go BUY ONE and contribute. Otherwise, well, you know.

Sorry Guys! Didn't mean to start anything. I'm just a little frustrated trying to decide on a TV...makes me feel like I need to go to counseling or something. I mean hell it's just a TV!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I know everyone here invests a lot of time researching before they purchase. I have been looking and researching for what seems like forever.
I waited for months for the new Mits 52725 (gives you a idea) to come out and when it did I balked.... which was good because I started seeing rainbows (a whole other story). Back to the drawing board...

Anyway, this thread is just different from a lot of the other TV threads. There is not near as much talk about the TV it self, it's PQ, Tweaks,etc... list could go on but you get it.

Don't get me wrong I understand all the other talk (DVD/PC) as well, if I were a new owner I'm sure I would be doing the same. In fact if/when I get the 52G786 I would like to know what DVD player works or does not work well with the JVC. I had planned on the Denon 3910 but, as it has been noted here and other threads the JVC doesn't like the Faroujda chip, which the Denon has.

Well now that I've just added to the "noise"... I do appreciate ALL info....

Now talk it up new owners!:D :D Oh... and could someone help swenjj with his new jail cell window.... poor workaholic is getting no help!:p :p

Went to Best Buy to take a look at the new set / old sets and there were none. The guy told me that all of their JVC D-ILAs were recalled by JVC because there was something wrong with them. Anybody know anything about this, or was the guy just an idiot?

Originally posted by SteveCallas
Went to Best Buy to take a look at the new set / old sets and there were none. The guy told me that all of their JVC D-ILAs were recalled by JVC because there was something wrong with them. Anybody know anything about this, or was the guy just an idiot?

last years models needed a ten minute fix, so far this years ones are great

And the fix seemed to basically move a wire away from a hot ballast.

BTW, I never heard the fan in my 61Z786, except when the TV was switching off- until last night. It was warmer, and we watched for over 3 hours, more than we usually do, and the fan kicked into high. We could hear it. Not objectionable, but in quiet passages it could be heard.

I haven't had an opportunity to do more testing or photographs, or to even test the HDMI with my PC or LG-4200A tuner- the only DVI/HDMI sources I have right now. When we get back from vacation I'll have to do all that. Of course, by then I may be leasing a 942 and watching the Voom 10 and other HD! But I'm still enjoying the History Channel and other SD- because it all looks so great on a 61" HD-ILA!

And some folks that don't know I bought this set think the big grin on my face is because I'm going on vacation!

My mini-review of the new JVCs - by the guy who doesn't presently own a HDTV set, but has been looking at them for nigh 5 years now - while paying for college educations for my children:

Had a chance today to spend 45 minutes comparing both the 61" and 70" JVC x86 models against the Toshiba 52" and 62" DLPs and a Mitsubishi 62" DLP. I was able to have full access to the remotes and could tweak the picture settings on all fives to my hearts content.

My take on the JVCs went as follows:

The 61" and 70" pictures were near identical in every way, with the only difference being that the 70" had just a touch more noise (as is typical for a larger screen).

- Brightness was very good on both.
- Color was very good and appeared to be true on both, as best I could tell.
- Sharpness/Clarity was good, but not quite as good as any of the DLPs. Close enough that I didn't consider it to be a big issue. I had no opportunity to specifically test for CA, however the outer edges of the screen were not quite as sharp as the center. But it was slight enough that you had to look for it to see it.
- Horizontal viewing angles were excellent.
- Vertical viewing angles were mediocre, as are most rear projection sets. I would not place these sets any higher than the bottom of the image being 6" below eye level.
- Black detail was average at best. Definitely a couple of cuts below what any of the DLPs could do. I tried my best to compensate, altering the "Picture" and "Brightness" settings a number of times. I could get better detail in dark areas, but only when the bright areas were overly bright and starting to wash out.

Examples: A) when viewing a brightly lit golf course with trees in the shadowly background, on the DLPs one could easily see the tree limbs in the shadows, shaded to a dark green. On both JVCs, this detail was highly obscured and the color much closer to a solid black. This was with the well-lit grassy foreground being as close to identical as I could make it across all sets.

B) On a scene were one views a sunlit beach against a rock cliff background, where the cliff face was in the shadows. On the DLPs you could see more detail on the cliff face, see some strata in the rocks, and even some subtle colors. On the JVCs most of the detail was gone, lost in the shadows. The video was a loop, so I was able to try to correct for this on several loops of the same scenes, but was never able to get good detail in the cliff shadows without beginning to wash out the blues in the water & sky.

The black detail was particularly bad when the Dynamic Gamma setting was turned on. With it off, black detail improved, but still fell well short of what the DLP sets could do.

Now, I've overemphasized the attention to this trait in this review. My overall impression was that they threw up a big, colorful, bright, acceptably sharp image. I think someone could be very happy with these sets, if they weren't too picky on black level detail.

Tom_Bombadil, do you know whether or not Dynamic Gamma was turned on or not? If it is turned on, black get crushed badly.

I tried it with both Dynamic Gamma turned on and off. I should have stated this (will go back and do so). It was better without, but still no match for the DLPs.

Originally posted by DonDougan
No... actually YOU are. This is an 'owners' thread. See the title. If 'shoppers' or 'browsers' find useful info then good for them! As an owner I want to see others opinions on good DVD players to use with this particular set. As an owner I want to see others opinions on most effect HTPC hookups with this particular set. Who appointed you thread monitor?

Well, uhhh, I would venture to say that the VAST majority of folks would like to hear the owners discuss their TV's good and bad points before we decide on what 4K TV to buy. I would venture to say that the VAST majority don't give a flip about what PC will or will not blow up to humongous size on ANY TV. I would agree with the other poster that MAYBE 2 pages of the current 24 pages on this thread are talking about THIS TV. Talking about DVD players compatibility with THIS Tv is I suppose on target but geez louise- can we not fill up a few pages asking the same tired questions about one brand of DVD player with virtually no mention about THIS TV!

Still have not gotten a clear view as to how much better THIS TV is compared to last years model. Does it have better black levels? How is the internal tuner for OTA HD in direct comparison with others? Has the discrete video input problem been solved with learning remotes? How is the glare on this TV in a bright room with sun coming in during the day?

until you own a Z/Gx86, you probably shouldn't be dictating what an "owners thread" should or should not talk about. if the owners want to talk about connecting X and Y to it, that's their perogative.

if it bothers you so much, make a new thread called "Z/Gx86 impressions" instead.

Originally posted by TNVOL
Still have not gotten a clear view as to how much better THIS TV is compared to last years model. Does it have better black levels? How is the internal tuner for OTA HD in direct comparison with others? Has the discrete video input problem been solved with learning remotes? How is the glare on this TV in a bright room with sun coming in during the day?

TNVOL - All of your questions have been answered here except one - the discrete code issue. Did you not read my last post? Not many participating in the discussion actually have one of these sets!!! OK?

Yes, it has better black levels than last years, but not CRT level. I too have seen better black levels on DLPs, but at the expense of overall brightness, which brings us to your question about glare. The screens are the same as they were last year, and the have very little glare, and the set can be made PLENTY bright, so it is a great daytime viewing set. The OTA tuner in my set (70G886) is FAR better than the one in my Dish 921 receiver, my only point of reference. It picks up all the stations in my area, and I don't have line-of-site to the towers.

Lastly, as a non-owner, you are certainly welcome to visit other owners threads for sets that are just now coming out and report back how much concrete info you find out there. My experience is that all that has happened here is folks were waiting to receive their sets and started talking about related topics.

The simple bottom line is that the new sets are better, but they are not a 13K Qualia for 3K! After all, the light engine is the SAME as the 585 series. My experience with the JVC has been one of compromise, and when I tried to find a better set for the money, I could not. Every other set had something I didn't care for. So, like all things in life, we adjust and make compromises and move on. When you think about it, the fact that these sets look as good as they do for the $$$, it is a miracle.

The tone of your message indicates that you feel we owe it to you to post what you want to hear. Next time, why not just ASK THE QUESTIONS before complaining???

Again, as this is an owners thread, try and reset your expectation. I would never go over to any other owners forum and post the way you did. Why not just go look at one and see how you like it.

Geeezzz.

Originally posted by bhchan
until you own a Z/Gx86, you probably shouldn't be dictating what an "owners thread" should or should not talk about. if the owners want to talk about connecting X and Y to it, that's their perogative.

if it bothers you so much, make a new thread called "Z/Gx86 impressions" instead.

i wont drag this on past this one post, but i thought that is what an owners thread is for, for owners to discuss what works or doesnt on their tv, which dvd players have a problem with our tv is certainly something we can talk about, because it is relating to this specific tv

Originally posted by swenjj
i wont drag this on past this one post, but i thought that is what an owners thread is for, for owners to discuss what works or doesnt on their tv, which dvd players have a problem with our tv is certainly something we can talk about, because it is relating to this specific tv

I also won't drag on past my post here, but since it appears I partly started the "tizzy", I do want to say that I totally agree with ya. I would think that DVD player compatibility and HTPC performance are two of the main issues that threads like these are intended to cover.

But what do I know?

:D

well, i have the 61 inch, i cant compare it to last years model,but i had a panasonic 50 inch lcd and samsung 56 inch dlp, i sold the pan. and returned the samsung, this one i am keeping, i have a pro coming on friday to calibrate it to make it as good as it can get, i am not a real technical wiz or knowledgeable about this stuff so all i will say is i really like the picture , much better standard def than my old panny,hd is pretty darn good looking,

i should say though a part of the awe factor for me is just the sheer size of a 61 inch screen, pretty awesome in my little home theater

I just bought the HD-70G886 two days ago. From what I have seen I am VERY happy with the set. Couldn't wipe the smile off my face when watching it. The SD viewing (Directv) is WAY better than I expected. For whatever reason it looks much better to me than it did in the store. The HD (OTA) has been awesome (Watched Lost and American Idol) as it was in the store. I was concerned about the 70" maybe being too big for my viewing distance (12 to 13 feet) but now am glad I got the 70 as it looks amazing. I think even bigger would be OK if they had it. I have looked at a lot of TVs over the past few months and my favorite (slightly) picture was on the SONY 60" XS 955 but I wanted a 70" and not the XBR. For this reason I was hesitant on pulling the trigger on the JVC but after watching it at home I have no second thoughts. The pq is awesome. Even the wife commented on how stunning it is. The Theater mode seemed a little different to me at first but the wife liked it, so we watched some of Pulp Fiction in this mode and have to say it looks more like an actual film than anything I have ever seen on TV (no wonder it seemed different at first). Haven't had a chance to tweak but did determine that having the progressive on (even with my cheap DVD player) seemed better. The only things I don't like are:
1) The grey bars on some broadcasts (DTV) - Not too big an issue though.
and
2) When I watch SD (digital or analog) in 4:3 format there is a small vertical green (sometimes purple) line where the grey (or black) bars meet the picture. Can barely see it from viewing distance, but it is there. These lines are not present when streching the screen or watching 16:9 full screen. Anybody else see this?

This is the first time I have ever written a reply on any kind of forum so go easy on me if I am not posting this right. Also, thanks to everybody for all of the info on this site.

gobigreen, i notice the line of color between the grey and the picture, it doesnt bother me though,not sure why its there

All,

HTPC hookup is much better than I had anticipated. I am completely amazed at the quality of DVD/xvid/gaming through it. I fired up my first widescreen game last night (after some .exe modifications) and I was in complete amazement. I got the cordless logitech rumblepad 2 and the lite-on ir keyboard. I don't have to leave the couch to do anything with the PC, TV or Audio. Pictures will be coming this weekend. I had to use powerstrip to create a monitor driver for the JVC then added it to windoze and just like that, all my gaming issues went away (w/out the driver games would only run in 640x480 - and barely playable at that). I've watched a handful of xvid/divx movies and they look the best I have ever seen before. It does yield a 1:1 pixel mapping.

Here are my settings:

Use standard type fonts (don't set "clear type" like Microsoft recommends for digital displays).
ATI Radeon 9600 SE 128 MB w/ Catalyst 5.4 driver and control center.
Leave all things default on control center - except the resolution.
Create a custom resolution (because 1280x720 gives overscan): Mine is 1184x672 @ 60 Hz (progressive). NOTE: I did try 1900x1080 @ 30Hz (interlaced) but the screen was unreadable - I'll post a picture of that as well.
NOTE: I'm not running powestrip to create my desktop timings.
Connection is DVI-2-HDMI cable.
Turtle Beach Catalina sound card (Optical S/PDIF output to my receiver)
Hauppauge PVR 250
HD recording capability is in the plan but it's hard enuff to find time for this as it is - I just moved so I'm trying to get other things sorted out as well.
Sage TV

A NVIDIA GeForce 5200 would not display DVDs - I have no idea why. They wouldn't display thru sage tv nor WinDVD 6. I put in the 9600 and it played them just fine. So I wouldn't use a low-end video card.

Reading text on it is not as good as a dedicated computer monitor due to CA - which is what was displayed on the DVE pictures onmitsu showed us. But, I still do web surfing on it, check weather and movie times and it looks good enough. It's not bad by any means. There's a 1:1 pixel mapping but some letters of text display a small shadow of pink/blue which defects the image. Those issues go away when a 3D image is displayed or a movie or tv. It's only on static 2d images (desktop) that I see CA.

This thing is a keeper. No regrets, no remorse. I still sit with a smile when I watch it.

swenjj - good luck with the ISF calibration. Please let us know how it goes.

Has anyone tried the ATI component video dongle with this set?

Originally posted by gobigreen
2) When I watch SD (digital or analog) in 4:3 format there is a small vertical green (sometimes purple) line where the grey (or black) bars meet the picture. Can barely see it from viewing distance, but it is there. These lines are not present when streching the screen or watching 16:9 full screen.

Sounds like you're seeing the convergence aberation that's approximately 1 or 2 pixels in size. I remember someone having a Gandalf the White still showing slight green edge and purple edge around Gandalf's white sleeves that is barely visible even in the still.

The reason that you can see it better in the 4:3 mode is probably because it -is- still and not moving, while most of the time, you won't see a single pixel aberation because the image is moving.

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All Hail the Ga-Dila

Thanks for the info bhchan. Doesn't sound like I can do anything about it. Fotunately for me - I agree with swenjj - it doesn't really bother me. Just wanted to be sure I didn't have something defective.

Another thing I found after getting my HD-70G886 home. The POP? or Twin mode on my TV appears different than the one at the store. On my set it comes up as a split screen with equal sizes for each picture centered vertically. The set in the store showed one of the pictures in the upper left corner and the other in the lower right corner - also, the one in the upper left corner was larger. The two pictures even overlapped slightly at the corners. I do not see in the manual (or menus) how to change this (which I guess is OK since I like the equal split better). However, I am wondering how they did this at the store.

Go back through the JVC threads, there is previous info on how to enter the service menu and minimize (notice I don't say eliminate) the green/magenta lines (CA)

I did this on my 52z575 and it helped considerably. Doesn't eliminate, but takes it down further.

Thanks Ryan. If I go into the service menu is my warranty affected? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

Originally posted by gobigreen
I just bought the HD-70G886 two days ago. From what I have seen I am VERY happy with the set. Couldn't wipe the smile off my face when watching it.
The only things I don't like are:

2) When I watch SD (digital or analog) in 4:3 format there is a small vertical green (sometimes purple) line where the grey (or black) bars meet the picture. Can barely see it from viewing distance, but it is there. These lines are not present when streching the screen or watching 16:9 full screen. Anybody else see this?



The red, green and blue pixels are not lying exactly on top of each other, so you can see one color peeking out. It is caused by a combination of chromatic aberration (the different colors bending differently going through the lens) and mis-convergence (the three color chips are not perfectlly aligned with each other).
The chromatic aberration is fixed and can not be adjusted - all the DILAs have the same amount. It would tend to make the two vertical lines the same color, so you are mainly seeing mis-convergence.
The mis-convergence depends on the assembly of the light engine in the factory. There is a service menu adjustment that will move each color around one pixel at a time to adjust convergence, but if two colors are half a pixel off (for example), they will always be (at best) half a pixel off in one direction or the other.

Originally posted by SHOMan
Yes, it has better black levels than last years...
Just curious how JVC has managed to improve the black levels if in fact the new sets have the exact same light engine...?