==>>The Official JVC - DILA - Z/Gx86 Owners Thread<<== [Text View] - Page 3

swenjj

05-06-05, 08:27 PM

ok, my cal is done, i really dont know much about this stuff so i am just typing in some numbers he told me, he said that a decent home theater should have a foot lamberts of about 22, the jvc was at 62, overscan was less than 5 %, the picture wasnt centered exactly,but decent, about grey scale or color, he says that the color coordinates were at 292 - 306 instead of 293-329 , just looking at the chart here it looks like that means just under 9000k greyscale instead of 6500k, can someone who knows more about that write the exact number?
one test that showed scaling in 720p it showed pretty good, it had one line of pixels on ,one off, then two on two off,and so on, 720p looked decent, he said it had some problems in the two pixel area, but in 1080i the one pixel area just disappeared, all grey it was filtered out, so that means the picture is losing some detail making it softer i guess, not exactly sure about what that all means

remember i had some problems when the dvd player was on i had verticle bars, after cal it seems they are gone, it must have been some weird interference or something, for some reason it looks gone, and i think the really high brightness made my smudges appear very easily, now i couldnt find them after it, i am not saying they are gone, but i think just less noticable because of the mixture of color or brightness,(of course i could see them next time i go in and get ticked,hope not)

just looking at it now the picture really seems good, i am very happy with it, but i havent seen much so i will watch some hd tonight and probably dvds tommorrow to get some more time in on it

Tom_Bombadil

05-06-05, 11:28 PM

Do you know where he left it on brightness in foot-lamberts? I've seen the numbers from two other ISF calibrations of JVCs and they left it around 45-50 foot-lamberts. But I know other tuners who always shoot for 30-35. This might be related to your room, if room lighting tends to be darker, they might shoot for a lower number.

swenjj

05-07-05, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Do you know where he left it on brightness in foot-lamberts? I've seen the numbers from two other ISF calibrations of JVCs and they left it around 45-50 foot-lamberts. But I know other tuners who always shoot for 30-35. This might be related to your room, if room lighting tends to be darker, they might shoot for a lower number.

i didnt even think to ask him, buy my room is totally enclosed with no windows,so he did bring it down alot,

now today i cant even really use it until tonight, i have a 3.5 hour test for a new job, kind of strange i go to two years of school for being a machinist,work at my job 5 years but if i get this job as a corrections officer ,union job for the county, then i start at over a buck an hour more than i make now,but tons of people applying for that reason too

tonight i'll watch a few dvd's and see how it really looks

swenjj

05-07-05, 11:14 AM

i have a video processor / scaler question, if i buy a scaler/processor and plug everything to run into it, then to the tv would the tv just display it or would it have to go through the tv's presumably lesser scaler?

meaning would a processor be worth it or just use the onboard circuitry?

donb1948

05-07-05, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by swenjj
i have a video processor / scaler question, if i buy a scaler/processor and plug everything to run into it, then to the tv would the tv just display it or would it have to go through the tv's presumably lesser scaler?

I asked this same question over in the Video Processor forum back in Feb when I started looking for a new TV. The points I came away with were:
1. The external scaler will be more costly (as much as the TV in some cases) but will generally do a better job as a scaler/de-interlacer than the TV's internal scaler and all other things being equal, present a better PQ. (Of course, there is a debate as to whether the improvement would be noticeable to everyone in all cases because some internal scaler/de-interlacers are better than others.)
2. Whether a previously upscaled/de-interlaced signal is further manipulated by the internal video processor is a function of the manufacturer. The only way to know for sure is to ask the manufacturer. I did not get a list of which manufacturers were known to manipulate a processed signal and which did not. And, whether or not they did was subject to change with each model/model year. So again, you have to ask.
3. With the new "1080p" sets that can NOT take 1080p signal inputs, the TV will always manipulate the incoming signal, so you will always be at the mercy of the internal scaler/de-interlacers.

kcollins

05-10-05, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by gobigreen
Thanks for the info bhchan. Doesn't sound like I can do anything about it. Fotunately for me - I agree with swenjj - it doesn't really bother me. Just wanted to be sure I didn't have something defective.

Another thing I found after getting my HD-70G886 home. The POP? or Twin mode on my TV appears different than the one at the store. On my set it comes up as a split screen with equal sizes for each picture centered vertically. The set in the store showed one of the pictures in the upper left corner and the other in the lower right corner - also, the one in the upper left corner was larger. The two pictures even overlapped slightly at the corners. I do not see in the manual (or menus) how to change this (which I guess is OK since I like the equal split better). However, I am wondering how they did this at the store.

The POP that splits to the top and is slightly larger is a HD channel. The two side by side are non HD channels. It is in the manual but difficult to find.

I have a 61Z786 and love the TV. This is my first post and I have enjoyed reading this forum from day one :)

SouthBark

05-11-05, 09:54 AM

Kid Red obtained the measurements for the 52" models:

UNIT MEASUREMENTS (INCHES)

HD52G886 W H D
*48 3/8 *35 7/8 *16 5/16

houstongent

05-14-05, 01:57 AM

I'm having a problem and I'm not sure if its my HTPC or my DVI/HDMI cable or my 61Z786.

Anyway I'm trying to connect a PC to my new 61Z786 via a ATI 9800 Pro (not an AIW). I set my 9800 to force 720P on the DVI port. I get a brief image on the 61Z786 then both my VGA monitor I have hooked up and the 61Z786 go blank for a second then both turn back on for a couple of seconds. This process keep repeating off then on, off then on. Once I yank the DVI cable off the video card my VGA stabilizes. If I only have the DVI/HDMI cable in it start flashing again. On the computer it detects the TV and shows its name but I can’t get a stable image while it is connected to the PC.

I have different video card that can do HDTV Component (Y/Pr/Pb) and it works okay, but I get a lot of black borders. I'd like to watch a digital signal if possible.

So any ideas where the problem is?

Thanks

I'm getting the same exact thing when I use the DVI to HDMI. My card is the ATI X300 and I have the HP Media Center. Can't get it to work. Any help appreciated.

lienly

05-14-05, 02:45 AM

still gray bars in my review in Apr, 61z575.

Originally posted by Kid Red
pepco- Yea, the JVC can't override grey bars, but some cable boxes can. Someone said in another thread that the they grey bars are now black.

BigTVSteve

05-16-05, 02:35 AM

Has anyone spent any time doing a side by side comparison of the overall picture quality (sharpness, contrast, color fidelity, etc.) of the new JVC HD61Z786 or HD61Z886 sets to the 60 inch Sony (60XS955) or to the 55 inch Sony (55XS955) sets?

I am particularly interested in how well the JVC sets performed on 4x3 format digital/ATSC pictures, as that is an area in which I think these Sonys excel. These Sony sets also have an extremely bright picture and non-glare screens, both of which are useful in rooms with daylight viewing problems.

I know that some earlier posters in this thread have indicated they were also interested in the new JVC DILA to Sony comparisons. I have searched all of the normal show rooms in my SoCal area, but no one has the new JVCs on display yet. I will post my findings here if I can find some new DILAs to evaluate. Meanwhile...

Xeye

05-16-05, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by BigTVSteve
Has anyone spent any time doing a side by side comparison of the overall picture quality (sharpness, contrast, color fidelity, etc.) of the new JVC HD61Z786 or HD61Z886 sets to the 60 inch Sony (60XS955) or to the 55 inch Sony (55XS955) sets?

These Sony sets also have an extremely bright picture and non-glare screens, both of which are useful in rooms with daylight viewing problems.

I saw all these LCD Sony TV and LCOS JVC TVs side by side.

No comparison in brightness. And it couldn't be. The reason i think is simple:
the more light microdisplay can manipulate the larger brightness.
You probably also know that
- LCDs contrast ratios are marginally small (really less than 400 while LCOS are twice larger)
- LCOS by design can sustain larger heat load.

Hence Sony can not use more powerful light source because of
black level will be bad and LCDs will thermally degrade faster while JVC with its LCOS can.

In all other respects Sony are probably better than JVC, but remember,
that brightness is the key. This is why next Sony 006 (which caused a lot of people literally loose their minds and vision recently) has even twice larger brightness than current JVCs (based on its 200W mercury lamps compared to JVCs 110W in current designs)

Xeye

05-18-05, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by kfeltes
All,

HTPC hookup is much better than I had anticipated. I am completely amazed at the quality of DVD/xvid/gaming through it. I fired up my first widescreen game last night (after some .exe modifications) and I was in complete amazement.

Completely agree with you. All is really nice. DVD playback via computer is actually as good as it should be with natively digital progressive scan. I use it more and more as computer monitor. And use it right now to write this message.

Create a custom resolution (because 1280x720 gives overscan): Mine is 1184x672 @ 60 Hz (progressive). NOTE: I did try 1900x1080 @ 30Hz (interlaced) but the screen was unreadable - I'll post a picture of that as well.
NOTE: I'm not running powestrip to create my desktop timings.

Hey kfeltes, I dunno what kfeltes means, hopefully it is your real name.
One thing I have noticed though. To keep 16:9 streen ratio with 1184 horizontal pixels, the resolution has to be not 1184x672 but 1184x666.
You know what I mean? :)
I use powerstrip to get this resolution. Without prejudice.

Connection is DVI-2-HDMI cable.

For all who interested, don't buy HDMI-to-DVI cable in so called BestBuy.
Its total rip off for $160 . Buy it over Internet for $14-20.

A NVIDIA GeForce 5200 would not display DVDs - I have no idea why. They wouldn't display thru sage tv nor WinDVD 6. I put in the 9600 and it played them just fine. So I wouldn't use a low-end video card

Works with NVIDIA 5700 fine.

Reading text on it is not as good as a dedicated computer monitor due to CA - which is what was displayed on the DVE pictures onmitsu showed us. But, I still do web surfing on it, check weather and movie times and it looks good enough. It's not bad by any means. There's a 1:1 pixel mapping but some letters of text display a small shadow of pink/blue which defects the image. Those issues go away when a 3D image is displayed or a movie or tv. It's only on static 2d images (desktop) that I see CA.

Now I have to admit, that contrary to my previous observations, in my 61" CAs are marginable everywhere besides may be upper left corner. That's totally amazing.
The only problem to use this TV as monitor is the screen resolution itself which is clearly not enough for super-duper computing. But its fine. We will probably not see 1080p at this price for a year or two.

VGA connection is crap though. It is not worth of anything. It was not worth to wait it. Probably 61z575 with the same digital DVI connection and ATCS card in your computer would do the same job as 61z786 (but for one grand less).

This thing is a keeper. No regrets, no remorse. I still sit with a smile when I watch it.
swenjj - good luck with the ISF calibration. Please let us know how it goes.

Other Pros: No single bad pixel, homogeneous screen, good SD, zero fan noise unless I'm deaf. As a TV it is great. Kids use it with XBOXes etc. Besides I got it for much less than in TVA, with 5 years service which includes all lamps replacements.

Cons: I think there is no digital sound input (from computer). Am I right?Switching channels with remote sucks, its slowness just kills me :) .
No 'green functions' like monitor standby mode.

One funny con is that kids recently refused to take the hotel room without at least comparable quality plasma TV. The room was given to us for cheap (all rooms we ordered in advance were taken) while for others the price was $496/night :) :)

***************************************
Thanks kfeltes and all who posted images and suggested this great workaround
*******************************************

Eques

05-18-05, 12:04 PM

Been lurking here a long time getting information in anticipation of buying the JVC HD-61Z886 when available from Retailer. Spoke with a credible person at Best Buy Store in California yesterday who had been recently in touch with a JVC representative. The JVC representative stated because they don't have production capacity to offer the new sets both online AND at retail stores these sets won't show up in stores like Best Buy unitill mid- July (or later...)

I, like many, have been waiting months for this set and promised myself I wouldn't buy a television like this over the internet but have decided I am not willing to wait another 2 months. I just ordered a HD-61Z886 from "Vanns" (located in Montana) for $3399.00 which includes a new Harmony Remote, Free Shipping and No Sales Tax. The unit is in stock. Vanns has been in business since 1961 and recieves very high on-line customer ratings.

Good Luck.

Mike

n7tb

05-18-05, 12:26 PM

I had no trouble finding the all black model here in the PNW. I bought my JVC at Video Only in Salem, Oregon last week. Best time to buy is mid-week on a slow afternoon. They will deal. Not sure if I can post prices here so will not, but substantially below $3k.

I love the set. I have not run DVE yet, but looks like no more than one pixel CA. There are no bad pixels and the fan is very quiet even after 8 hrs on.

I will post more after DVE, but right now, the JVC is just amazing. The only thing I really dislike is having to toggle through the inputs. I am going to get access to a remote from previous JVC model that has discrete input buttons and program my MX 500 remote. I understand the previous model remote works with this JVC.

navychop

05-18-05, 12:59 PM

I'd only add that I'm happy with the VGA input on my 61Z786, for what I use it for. I do a small amount of surfing on it- maybe to look up something mentioned in a show or that came up. Dedicated gamers would probably prefer using the HDMI.

navychop

05-20-05, 01:17 PM

Since the DVE only sets up the DVD input, it would seem that to properly calibrate the other inputs, you would have to copy the settings from the calibrated input to the other inputs, or move the DVD to each input possible. But that would not quite work, since a sat/cable box will have different levels, as would a VCR (if it's worth calibrating for a VCR). Also, there's the cal for the built in tuner.

It seems to me that the only answer, other than setting by eye, is to get an ISF cal. Any comments?

swenjj

05-20-05, 01:47 PM

navychop

05-20-05, 02:55 PM

OK- now how to spring it on the wife that I want an ISF .............

swenjj

05-20-05, 06:06 PM

well, its easier if she doesnt know the price :)

videobruce

05-24-05, 08:15 AM

Reading text on it is not as good as a dedicated computer monitor due to CA - which is what was displayed on the DVE pictures onmitsu showed Doesn't that kinda rule it out as a computer display??VGA connection is crap though. It is not worth of anything. It was not worth to wait it. Explain. Are you saying there is a large difference between the VGA and the DVI input regarding a PC display? This is why next Sony 006 (which caused a lot of people literally loose their minds and vision recently) has even twice larger brightness than current JVCs (based on its 200W mercury lamps compared to JVCs 110W in current designs) How bright is bright? You already need sunglasses with the JVC as it is (stretching it a bit). :mad:

Kid Red

05-24-05, 12:31 PM

i had my isf cal navychop, i have different numbers between dvd and the hd tuner, my numbers wont mean anything to you because he changed stuff in the service menu, but to show you the differencein numbers:
tint/color/pic/bright/detail/ HD +4 -4 0 -7 -11 dvd is +6 -4 0 -16 -14 in color temp low,all processing crap off

Wow, 0 for pic and -16 for brightness? My results were 16-pic and 2 for brightness with Avia and my Denon 2900. That sounds way too dark to me. I can't imagine what he changed in the service menu to make up for the brightness loss with such low settings but I would guess you get pretty good blacks. No black crush? How much did it cost you?

There's a local ISF guy that visits here, Barry I think, who I may call up once I get my replacement set.

swenjj

05-24-05, 04:42 PM

it doesnt look too dark at all to me, looks great, not sure what he did in the service menu but it all ended up looking nice, i live a long way away from the guy,almost 3 hour round trip so with travel it was 575 bucks

Kid Red

05-25-05, 09:59 AM

LL3HD

05-25-05, 11:08 AM

Did he put in duvytene(?)

Is this a regular thing to do, is it necessary? What internal reflections?

Kid Red

05-25-05, 02:03 PM

I've seen it done on CRT PR sets, it's to cut down on internal reflections from any escaping light from the light engine. So it would prevent your cabinet from being a glow box, or so I gather. Not sure whether the JVC would benefit or not from this, Barry had never ISF-ed a JVC as of when we spoke, so I'm not sure the advantages are known.

swenjj

05-25-05, 04:44 PM

$575? Damn. Did he put in duvytene(?)? It's for damping internal reflections. So did you notice a major improvement, or slight or what? Do you feel like your near $600 was worth it forgetting the guy's trek to our house?

i didnt have that stuff put in, i think it was worth it,
not much time to explain now but i am glad i did it

Xeye

05-28-05, 06:27 AM

Doesn't that kinda rule it out as a computer display?? Explain. Are you saying there is a large difference between the VGA and the DVI input regarding a PC display? How bright is bright? You already need sunglasses with the JVC as it is (stretching it a bit). :mad:

1024x768 VGA does not do 1:1 pixel mapping which is obvious with 1280x720 native resolution. The texts are hence interpolated and look worse on VGA. And you don't get whole screen image with it, instead you get thickness from those damn two side bars like with SD broadcast.

With DVI you get slightly less lines and pixels per line (in my case 666x1184) but it is the whole screen image. May be the overscan can be fixed using service menu but it's just pennies. No time to play with this....The small texts are much more readable with DVI. Nevertheless honestly to use TV as PC monitor to do programming work the 1080p is a minimum, though I do that with this one too.
And you can watch 16:9 movies on it using PC DVD without much difference compared to external DVD player.

CA are very well compensated over the 80-90% of the screen. It's 1/3-1/2 pixels everywhere except upper left corner where they are 3/4-1 pixel. 1/3 pixel "CA" (kind of CA of course) is what any plasma TV gives us.

I did not think before that TV set is too bright and after using TV for a month confirm that again. We all will see Sony 006 soon and decide.

videobruce

05-28-05, 08:40 AM

Why can't you do 1184x666 (or whatever fits the screen to your liking) with a VGA input either through Powerstrip or the video cards software since both nVidia and ATI offer it?

Xeye

05-28-05, 09:37 PM

Why can't you do 1184x666 (or whatever fits the screen to your liking) with a VGA input either through Powerstrip or the video cards software since both nVidia and ATI offer it?

Unfortunately it does not work this way. No proper sync, distorted colorated image, and still the same small portion of the screen is only used (like with original 1024x768). VGA regime with z786 is very sensitive to PC resolutions/vsync as if JVC had no any experience with front projectors which usually recognize wide variety of PC settings and scale them appropriately. Looks like different departments of JVC have no connection.

Besides with Z786 you can not put PC in left or right position of POP by your choice. Same with XBOX/PS2. So you can not do PC stuff and watch movie or watch movie and kids play their XBOX. Many brands of plasma TVs do that no problem.

Also, I doublechecked, the texts via VGA do not seem to look much worse than via DVI. Fonts are smaller but still are not bad.

navychop

05-29-05, 11:30 AM

Last night I inflicted -er, showed some vacation pictures to my in-laws. This was from a CD in a laptop connected to the 61Z786 via VGA. Used the slide show feature in W-XP. Everything looked fine. Very useable for this purpose, and much better than showing it on a small computer monitor.

RowdyUSP40

05-29-05, 05:23 PM

videobruce

05-30-05, 11:35 AM

Xeye; is 1184x666 what you use for DVI? If so, what do you use for VGA?

bhometheatreman

05-30-05, 01:39 PM

swenjj

05-30-05, 01:58 PM

Hello, all of a sudden my TV when crazy and started showing a completely bizzare image. Please check the file I'm posting to see what the problem is. Does anyone know what this is? How can it be fixed?

I turned the TV off for a while, then on again, and it seemed to fix. But, after a while it started doing the same thing. Now, it won't get back to normal at all.

I even tried unplugging the unit from the power and waiting and trying again...but nothing....

Please see the attached jvc.jpg file for a visual of the problem.

Thanks!

actually that looks fine,must be your eyes,
just kidding

does it do that for dvd or other inputs or only on the tuner?

Xeye

05-31-05, 05:44 AM

Xeye; is 1184x666 what you use for DVI? If so, what do you use for VGA?
I have the NVIDIA videocard which has both DVI and VGA outputs. When you setup arbitrary resolution with Powerstrip both DVI and VGA have simultaneously the same output parameters.
The 1184x666 and some other resolutions i tried work with DVI with some a bit annoying overscan though. Some other resolutions little smaller or larger than that surprisingly may not work.

Output through VGA only works at 1024x768 (and lower) and is always displayed in the middle of the screen in 4:3 box

Do you or anyone else here have service manual of 61z786 which shows how to change overscan parameter? That may allow to get whole 1280x720 out of microchip completely displayed on the screen.

Videoops

05-31-05, 07:54 AM

Xeye:
I have the service manual for the older sets (should be the same for the light engine) and I can find nothing about adjusting overscan. I believe you would somehow have to move the light source back slightly and re-focus.

videobruce

05-31-05, 07:54 AM

bhometheatreman; it's probably service call time as I see no 'reset' button. :( Some other resolutions little smaller or larger than that surprisingly may not work. When you say 'not work' is that as in no display at all or something else? What good is 1024x768 on a 1280x720 display? "Looks like different departments of JVC have no connection.".............or was that said already. ;) Do you or anyone else here have service manual of 61z786 which shows how to change overscan parameter? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=455897

Nope, never saw one. :o There are only a centering adjustments.

Kid Red

05-31-05, 09:49 AM

Anyone use a Denon 3910 with their DILA? I asked this on the 3910 owners tread but got no response. It's getting close to the release of the 52G786 (hopefully) that I've been waiting on. The 3910 is the DVD player that I have had my eye on to go with the TV. I haven't been able to confirm if this is a good or bad combination. Any feedback on this combo would be greatly appreciated.

I have the 2900, isn't the 3910 the big brother? The 2900 is awesome with the JVC, but I think the 3910 uses a faradouja chip that has the MB and green tint issue? Check Secrets Shootout or get a 2900 to be sure.

Kid Red

05-31-05, 09:52 AM

Hello, all of a sudden my TV when crazy and started showing a completely bizzare image. Please check the file I'm posting to see what the problem is. Does anyone know what this is? How can it be fixed?

I turned the TV off for a while, then on again, and it seemed to fix. But, after a while it started doing the same thing. Now, it won't get back to normal at all.

I even tried unplugging the unit from the power and waiting and trying again...but nothing....

Please see the attached jvc.jpg file for a visual of the problem.

Thanks!

For future references, anytime, ANYTIME, your tv does anything it shouldn't, acts up, etc, call JVC that minute. I'm not sure if you did as you did not mention if so, but I wouldn't waste time waiting for input here when JVC could be fixing the set. Keep that pic, they may ask you to email it to them.

videobruce

05-31-05, 09:59 AM

It doesn't hurt to inquire first. The time it takes to set up a call, it could be fixed if it is something 'simple' or worse yet 'stupid'.
It happens..............
None of this was major surgery.

SouthBark

05-31-05, 10:25 AM

Check out my post linked below. There is an ad in the June 2005 Sound & Vision for the 52" JVC models.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5694819#post5694819

bhometheatreman

05-31-05, 12:28 PM

actually that looks fine,must be your eyes,
just kidding

does it do that for dvd or other inputs or only on the tuner?

Hello, yes, it does it on all inputs. I already eliminated the possibility of it being the tuner.

Thanks.

kcollins

05-31-05, 10:16 PM

Xeye

06-01-05, 03:41 AM

Has anyone had any issues with how slow the 786 changes channels? I am a channel surfer and it drives me crazy. I did not try changing channels on any units before I purchased but have since tried several others including Samsung DLP's and so far have only seen this issue with JVC DILA's. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Yes, new JVC's LCoS is PoS here, hands down. I use external cable box which together with DVI instead of long awaited VGA completely diminishes 786 to 575.

Xeye

06-01-05, 03:46 AM

videobruce

06-01-05, 08:28 AM

I believe you would somehow have to move the light source back slightly and re-focus. I wouldn't even consider this!Has anyone had any issues with how slow the 786 changes channels? I only hope the '05 models don't have this. :(

Kid Red

06-01-05, 10:00 AM

It doesn't hurt to inquire first. The time it takes to set up a call, it could be fixed if it is something 'simple' or worse yet 'stupid'.
It happens..............
None of this was major surgery.

Yea but my point was, rather then wait 3-4 days to hear he should call JVC once someone replies to his post, he could get much quicker results. Of course, something stupid would not apply and would/should be fairly obvious.

hop-man

06-02-05, 11:06 AM

Hi there,

I have just taken delivery of a 61Z786 a week ago and am loving it. However, I have noticed that convergence on the set is a bit off (3 pix?) horizontally on one side of the screen only. I have tried the simple convergence cal but the result is OK, since this procedure only shift the color fields (R and B) not its convergence. Does anyone know how to get into the service mode to do a bit more extensive cal?? Thanks.

dantethedog

06-02-05, 05:37 PM

I also have had a 61Z786 for two weeks now. Here is my quick review:

The good:

The picture is stunning, espcially HD. The colors are amazing and bright. The picture is very bright. The actual TV is a great looking box. The sound out of the TV is also quite good. I have been watching more HD nature shows than a stoner in college. Sometimes I'll just pause the picture on some very colorful scenery, and it brightens up the room better than my hanging artwork. (They definately need a 24 hour acquarium channel).

Watching sports on this TV in HD is unreal, its seems to handle fast action extremely well. I have never seen a better picture of a baseball game. I was just in Wrigley field last week and I swear the picture on my tv was actually better then my vision at the park. Black levels while watching HD sports seem to be much better than HD movies for some reason.

61inches is much bigger than I thought, I actually moved my couches back a little.

The Bad:

Black detail is not great. Not as bad as LCD but still not great.
Remote functionality sucks
Fan is noisier than I thought.
My cable box only provides 14 HD channels.
The different aspect ratios are just ok.

My feeling is that this set is an incredible TV for the money. And it would probably be atop everyones list (in its price range) if they didn't have quality control issues with the older sets, and fixed little stupid things like the remote.

My brother has a sony LCD which I also like, except for the blacks and the SDE. I also think the picture is too sharp. JVC is more movie like. I do not like DLPs because they seem to have trouble keeping up with live sporting action in my opinion.

ohcello

06-03-05, 12:33 PM

Hello all,

I have seen the base JVC 52" in many stores and have demo'd it quite a bit with very good results, but I'm considering the 61" version (the cheapest one, which isn't that much more than the 52 at this point) but there is no place that I know of on Long Island (NY) to view it.

Has anyone seen both tv's and if so, did you notice any major differences between the two or should I expect more of the same with the 61?

Thanks

the64gto

06-03-05, 12:58 PM

buy the base 52" do you mean 52z575/585 or the newest 52g786??

ohcello

06-03-05, 01:08 PM

52z575

chipvideo

06-04-05, 11:20 PM

I am about to buy the 61Z786, but I read that there can be issues with dead pixels and convergence problems. The dead pixel problem scares the crap out of me. Along with the convergence problem. I am going to be watching only dvd's and HD stuff on this set btw.

Anyone who has any advice please let her rip.

navychop

06-05-05, 12:03 AM

I have a 61Z786 that I bought from TVA. No dead pixels. I've never heard of anyone with a dead pixel on these sets. Very happy with purchase, as is wife. If you focus a camera up close, you can see that I have about a one pixel CA on the right and bottom of my set. Absolutely not visible in any viewing situation. I don't think these sets can have a convergence problem, unless it is a factory defect.

chipvideo

06-05-05, 12:31 AM

Ok. I am able to get the set including a 4 year repair master extended warranty and tax for $3100.

navychop

06-05-05, 10:13 AM

That's a very good price.

gazelle

06-05-05, 10:59 AM

Ok. I am able to get the set including a 4 year repair master extended warranty and tax for $3100.

It's a nice set. If you deduct the warranty cost, the price you're being offered is about the average street price. You may do a little better if you haggle. The warranty may not be worth the paper it's printed on to you - research other threads here on that subject and call the JVC service centers in your area to see if they accept repairmaster ( my guess is they don't).

videobruce

06-05-05, 11:26 AM

dantethedog; interesting review but under the 'bad',My cable box only provides 14 HD channels. That doesn't have anything to do with the set.Fan is noisier than I thought. Many sets are noiser to some people.The different aspect ratios are just ok Just what is missing?Black detail is not great. Not as bad as LCD but still not great. Are you refereing to the 'grey' blacks and if so, do you feel they are 'better' than a LCD RPTV (not necessary just the Sony)?
I read that there can be issues with dead pixels chipvideo; just where did you read that? It's LCD sets that have that issue.The warranty may not be worth the paper it's printed on to you - research other threads here on that subject and call the JVC service centers in your area to see if they accept repairmaster ( my guess is they don't). You beat me to it........... :cool:

chipvideo

06-05-05, 01:35 PM

Well if the extended warranty is worthless then what the heck do I do if it needs major repair after the 1 year warranty expires? Am I just SOL?

chipvideo

06-05-05, 01:44 PM

If anyone could tell me where to get the same set from a reputable dealer with shipping included and match the price. It is actually $3045 to be exact with tax included locally. I just was scared of getting one online because it was such a large purchase. I do expect issues within the next few years with the set so that is why I selected the extended warranty.

videobruce

06-05-05, 02:04 PM

Well if the extended warranty is worthless then what the heck do I do if it needs major repair after the 1 year warranty expires? Am I just SOL?You do the same as anyone else, pay for a service call (new concept)!

Point is, ANY extended warranty has to be honored by the LOCAL shop. If they don't honor ANY extended warranty no matter how good it is, then it isn't a option for you.

PS.; chipvideo, the modulators frown on mentioning prices.

chipvideo

06-05-05, 02:25 PM

How would I go about finding out if the warranty would cover it in my area. I live in seattle.

videobruce

06-05-05, 02:33 PM

navychop

06-05-05, 03:39 PM

chipvideo:

I recommend you call TVA (888 286-5353) and mention the prices you've been quoted, and by who. Be sure to tell them you are an AVS member. Many of us have been quite happy with TVA and their service. They are reputable and are authorized dealers in everything they sell.

the64gto

06-05-05, 04:23 PM

The extended warrenty issue. I made several calls in my area, and no one would tell me if they honored 'xyz' brand warranty. They all said, call your warrenty number and let them figure out who they send to fix it. During the first year, the Mfg will send who ever to fix, after that your warrenty will send 'company a' to fix. I don't know if that company is/is not an authorized service dept. But if you trust the extended warrenty in the first place, let them work it out. I even tried it via email asking a well known company if they had any service centers in my area the reply was:

Dear Sir/Ma'am:

Thanks first for buying a contract XXXX Priority Service. When
service work is done under your extended contract, we set up the service
call. We simply ask that you give us a call when service is required.

Please remember that we are here 24 hours daily every day but Christmas
for your convenience. You may either call or e-mail us at any time.

Thanks for writing and for choosing xxxxx Priority Service. :o

p.s. Reading the contract on line, mileage was covered up to 60 miles, after that there was a charge...of unknown $$

chipvideo

06-05-05, 05:40 PM

Ok. I will give TVA a shot and see if they can meet the price.

chipvideo

06-05-05, 06:21 PM

I just realized that TVA also has the repair master extended warranties. What difference does it make if I buy the tv and extended warranty from them or another outfit. I am thinking it makes no difference.

chipvideo

06-05-05, 06:24 PM

1. Call the manufacture or visit the website, give then you zip code and write down the shops.
2. Call each one and ask if they honor the warrenty company that you would be purchasing the plan through.
3.Good luck as I didn't have any through TVA's vendor, though you are in a much better area.

BTW, welcome to the forums. :)

Heck I figured that you being in the State of N.Y. would be much better than small Seattle. :-)

I did go to the jvc site and then found a few places within 20 miles of me. Umm unfortunately they are closed on Sunday's. Will try again tomorrow.

n7tb

06-05-05, 09:37 PM

Chipvideo,
If you are in Seattle, the place to buy is Video Only. I bought my 61Z786 at the Salem, OR store on a Thursday afternoon...slow days are a good day to buy. I got mine for $2650 plus $185 for a 5 year warranty including bulb replacement. I don't think you can beat that and Video Only is a local store for you. if you can transport, go to Portland and buy to avoide sales tax.

I love my set, no dead pixels, everything working absolutely perfectly! keep all your packing box material, if you do you can return your set for 30 days. Can't beat that.

contillion

06-06-05, 01:33 AM

OK. Just got my 61Z886, and there are a couple things I want to run by other owners to see if I’m the only one who’s experiencing any of this or if I should call/email JVC ASAP.

SETUP: I have an OTA antenna connected to Input 1 (Coax), a Hughes DirecTV SD-HGH receiver connected to Input 2 (S-Video), and an Xbox connected to Input 3 (Component). Viewing distance is 9’.

OVERALL: To be honest, I’m not sure if my expectations were realistic. I realize that with any non-HD feed, the picture wasn’t going to be super-clear, but for my Digital SD (both DirecTV and OTA), I’d say that I’d best describe the picture as “pixilated” or “slightly out of focus”. Color banding also appears many times

Here’s one thing I also notice in both SD and HD; I don’t know how to describe it, or if there is a technical term for it, but during a moderately paced camera pan, it looks like the image is stuttering, more like a photo montage vs. a consistent motion flow (is that what motion blurring is?)

Also, and again, this is for both SD and HD (but mostly SD), I noticed what looks like a shimmer when looking at things like a pin-striped suit or on the edges of station logos. What’s that and what would cause something like that?

OTA DIGITAL: Notice some color banding and some pixilation. I’m also not sure if that’s resultant from the antenna signal (I’m getting about 80-90)

OTA HD: The OTA HD programming displayed the best (obviously), but there is some occasional blurring that occurs, although it’s not as prevalent as in the DirecTV or Digital OTA feeds and again it could be symptomatic of the antenna signal.

XBOX: I have a modified Xbox that I use as my DVD player (has progressive). I played Shrek, and it looked very nice. The 720p games looked awesome, but the 420p games had more of that shimmer that I described earlier.

DSS (DirecTV): This is where I notice the color banding the most. The picture many times just seems like it’s blocky.

Now, I have Avia and tried to do some investigating, and what I concluded is that I either have CA or convergence issues. Here are a couple pictures I took using the Needle and Bars display. Could someone please confirm if this is CA or convergence, also what is up with that faint line on the right side?
dub dub dub dawt superincumbent dawt com slash files slash line3 dawt jpg
dub dub dub dawt superincumbent dawt com slash files slash line2 dawt jpg

[sorry for the cryptic link, appears AVS doesn't let you add "earls"until your 6th post]

Looking at any lettering, well, I’ll let you be the judge…
dub dub dub dawt superincumbent dawt com slash files slash letter2 dot jpg

OK. Should I call JVC now? Is there anything they or I could do about:
…the shimmer
…the color banding
…the stuttering
…the pixilation/out-of-focus look and feel
using Avia or the service menu?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Other than all of this, love the set

videobruce

06-06-05, 10:13 AM

I made several calls in my area, and no one would tell me if they honored 'xyz' brand warranty. I don't know if that company is/is not an authorized service dept. But if you trust the extended warrenty in the first place, let them work it out. the64gto; with an answer as that, I would NOT buy the warranty. :eek:
chipvideo; the state isn't the issue, it's the area. Buffalo is at the opposite end of the state as NYC is. Besides, there is much more $$ in your area then mine.

contillion; welcome to the forums. After your required posts would you re-post those links. Thanks. I think most of that stuff is your cable companies over compression.

arbleb

06-06-05, 10:38 AM

Okay...I've been trolling this thread for a while now looking for some info.

I just sold my 51" Hitachi RPTV and I'm looking to replace it with a 60" model of some sort. I stumbled across a 61z575 model at my local "large store that sells food and electronics".

The price seems to be excellent and includes a stand (the number starts with a 2).

BUT - there are like 6 JVC D-ILA models and their descriptions seem very very similar.

Can anybody enlighten me on this 61z575 model? The M.S.R.P. is still much higher than the other 61" models ... and I have no clue why! I can't gather much from the product descriptions!

Is it the old model? New model? Better? Worse?

Please help! They have 10 left and I'll need to go there today to buy it!

donb1948

06-06-05, 11:15 AM

I'm not the expert on these JVCs, but I've been lurking here because I'm interested in the 1080p's that are due and just wanted some idea of what the status of things were with JVC. However, yesterday, I spent some time looking at the 720p models to sort out what all the number meant for myself.

Here's my high level view. Someone more knowledgeable can get into details and subtleties.

1. HD-XXZ585 & HD-XXZ575 are the "older" models. Only difference in 585 and 575 is color of trim and bezel. (One's black & one's silver & black).
2. HD-XXZ786 and HD-XXZ886 are the newer models. Difference btwn 786 & 886 is color of bezel (one silver & other is black). Differences from 585/575 are: Uses 5-point color management system vs 4-point (suppose to have better skin tone management); Has ATSC/QAM tuner and slot for digital cablecard (digital cable ready); Has Dual IEEE 1394 (i.Link) ports. All other ports, technology, etc. appear to be the same as the Z585/575.
3. HD-XXG886. as best I can tell, the "G" only comes in the 70". It appears to be identical to the "Z886" except that it has a slot for memory cards that can be read directly to the display.

As I said, this is my high level view of the differences. There might be other subtle factors of which I'm not aware.

Edit: Corrected size of G model.

videobruce

06-06-05, 11:18 AM

I came across this which might be of interest. It seemed to add some more info than JVC's site has;

http://www.brightandsleek.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HD70G886

arbleb; somehow I would never even remotely consider something this expensive and important buying it from a; "large store that sells food and electronics".

navychop

06-06-05, 12:26 PM

arbleb:

Yes, it is the previous, discontinued model.

The newer x86 models also have VGA ports; the earlier models do not.

Your decision will hinge a lot on price. Go to this link (http://www.tvauthority.com/AVS-Forum-MEMBERS-ONLY/AVS-Forum-MEMBERS-ONLY.asp) and follow thru to see pricing of current models. You'll have to decide what the savings is worth to you. Newer, 1080, models come out in the fall.

videobruce

06-06-05, 12:36 PM

arbleb; I hope that isn't 'Blowmart' is it? If so, that's another reason to shop elsewhere.

contillion

06-06-05, 01:45 PM

Videobruce: Thanks for replying. Actually, I don't use cable, and I'm noticing these issues across the inputs - It's just more noticeable with SD digital.

As for the links, they're there, just described differently. Replace dub with w; dawt with .; slash with /; etc.

BrianWH

06-07-05, 10:25 AM

Forgive the paranoia, but I just got my replacement 52" delivered from BB yesterday. I noticed something strange while connecting everything. Looking at the back, the screw on the bottom right corner of the set (looks like its holding the speaker plastic in place) is a large flathead screw, really like a thumbscrew. On the opposite side (bottom left corner on the back), there is a smaller phillips screw with a couple of washers. These two screws are the only stainless (shiny silver) screws on the back. The rest of the screws are all black.

Can someone check their set and tell me if this is normal? These two screws don't match any others on the set, and they don't look like each other either!

My first set was an April '05 build and the replacement is Dec. '04 (SN: 179xxx), adding to my concerns. Did I get someone elses return?

Otherwise, no stuck pixels, less CA problems -why the first set was returned.
There is a slight (maybe 0.5 degree tilt counter-clockwise). Impossible to see without a test image.

Thanks,
Brian

MoPro

06-07-05, 05:54 PM

RowdyUSP40

06-07-05, 05:55 PM

Brain,
It would be hard for me to accept a four or five month older set as a replacement. I'm sure a lot of people would say who cares as long as it doesn't have a serious problem, but I'm just wired that way... I guess.

Sorry, I don't know about the screws, but it doesn't sound right does it?? Did they bring it in the box?? Personally I would like to see my set come out of a factory sealed box firsthand.

I guess Mopro just answered the thumbscrew question. What about the smaller phillips screw?

videobruce

06-08-05, 08:45 AM

I know this is a 'owners' thread, but to keep things interesting;

http://www.dtvcity.com/jvc-projection/jvc-hd61fh96.html
http://www.dtvcity.com/jvc-projection/jvc-hd52g786.html

(I posted this for description, not for price)

ball3r

06-08-05, 10:06 AM

If I am reading this correctly, they are SHIPPING!!! Can it be true? I won't even mention the "P" word, but that caught me off guard as well.

lorenzow

06-08-05, 10:47 AM

I know this is a 'owners' thread, but to keep things interesting;
(I posted this for description, not for price)

Accepted Video Signals: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i.

In light of the fact that Sony's PS3 console will have 1080p output, that's kind of disappointing.

the64gto

06-08-05, 10:52 AM

If I am reading this correctly, they are SHIPPING!!! Can it be true? I won't even mention the "P" word, but that caught me off guard as well.

Expected 'in stock' the first part of July.! :cool:

videobruce

06-08-05, 11:11 AM

n light of the fact that Sony's PS3 console will have 1080p output, that's kind of disappointing.It's only Sony. That is NO loss!

The G's ARE in stock FROM JVC,
The FH's at the end of June.

Per phone call to from DTV City. They won't stock them themselves untill they see how they sell.
Ok, Neil, your turn............ ;)

ball3r

06-08-05, 11:17 AM

Expected 'in stock' the first part of July.! :cool:

Does it say that somewhere on the page? I swear I can't find it. Though I did hurry through the page more than once since I am supposed to be working. :rolleyes:

the64gto

06-08-05, 11:37 AM

I called and talked to a sales rep!

ball3r

06-08-05, 12:29 PM

I called and talked to a sales rep!
Ahaaa!!! I see! Well thanks for the info. Can't wait till July then.

navychop

06-08-05, 12:32 PM

videobruce:

Why are you posting the same thing in multiple threads?

Anyway, folks, don't be too quick to believe what DTV claims. Let's see if anyone else posts such delivery dates and prices.

the64gto

06-08-05, 12:44 PM

[QUOTE=
Anyway, folks, don't be too quick to believe what DTV claims. Let's see if anyone else posts such delivery dates and prices.[/QUOTE]

NavyChop.....I remember monitoring the thread while you were waiting for your new TV.....I hate to admit it, but I am now where you were several weeks ago...chomping at the bit. My 27" JVC has been hanging in there for 13 years....its ready for retirement. :p

videobruce

06-08-05, 12:48 PM

Why are you posting the same thing in multiple threads?Because everyone doesn't read every thread............

I only posted what I saw and was told. Nothing is written in stone untill someone sees it.

lorenzow

06-08-05, 02:59 PM

It's only Sony. That is NO loss!

That may be but your argument doesn't invalidate the requirement for 1080p signal input.

videobruce

06-08-05, 11:16 PM

your argument doesn't invalidate the requirement for 1080p signal input.What argument? We were talking about JVC's new sets, where did the 1080 requirement part come from? :confused:

lorenzow

06-09-05, 11:23 AM

What argument? We were talking about JVC's new sets, where did the 1080 requirement part come from? :confused:

C'mon videobruce, just turn that frown upside down :) 'Argument' was not meant in a pejorative sense. One of us got off on the wrong foot so I'll try to get us synched up.

I said that the new 1080p JVC's will only support 1080i input and that's too bad because the PS3 is said to have 1080p output. You dismissed this by saying "Who cares, it's only Sony" and it was all dowhnill from there.

I now this is a 'G' thread and I kinda got off track with an 'H' discussion. Hopefully they'll get released soon and we can beat them to death in a dedicated thread.

Cheers

videobruce

06-09-05, 12:45 PM

Sorry, I couldn't figure out what you were talking about.............:confused:

lorenzow

06-09-05, 02:54 PM

Sorry, I couldn't figure out what you were talking about.............:confused:

Join the club. ;) Most of the time I can't either.

navychop

06-09-05, 02:57 PM

RowdyUSP40

06-09-05, 03:42 PM

videobruce:

Anyway, folks, don't be too quick to believe what DTV claims. Let's see if anyone else posts such delivery dates and prices.

I just talked to DTV and was told the same thing as videobruce "They won't stock them themselves until they see how they sell". I was told that the TVs are ready to ship and could order one now, but it could take up to three weeks for delivery. So, are they really ready for shipment?? :rolleyes:

navychop

06-09-05, 04:11 PM

SouthBark

06-09-05, 05:07 PM

I called DTV today. They said they charge your card when the Set arrives at their location. But I was asking about local pickup since I live in Atlanta. They said the "G" 52's were in stock at the JVC warehouse.

RowdyUSP40

06-09-05, 05:14 PM

And are they the FH (1080p) models? Or the 52" 720 models? Someone posted DTV City has dropped the FH models from their site.

Gee- does DTV charge your credit card upon placing the order?

I'll believe they are available for shipment when TVA says they are. The G models should be available soon. The FH - have you ever heard of any electronics reaching market 3 or 4 months BEFORE the estimated availability date?

The 52" 720 models.
They said late Sept. on the FH models.
I'm also waiting to hear something from TVA. I talk to Cammy at TVA yesterday and she said they have heard nothing new from JVC... ship dates or pricing. :(

RowdyUSP40

06-09-05, 05:22 PM

I think they (DTV) are trying to gauge how many they will order.

They said they charge your card when the Set arrives at their location.

The guy told me the TV ships directly to the buyer from JVC... he said nothing about it coming to their location.

Sorry for the back to back posts>>>>

navychop

06-09-05, 08:44 PM

Sept I can believe- as an optimistic date. And trying to get an early handle on interest- makes sense.

Anyone ordering from them, please report here how it goes.

videobruce

06-09-05, 11:06 PM

That cabinet surely looks nice. No silver, no side speakers.
No CA and black blacks...................wishful thinking. :rolleyes:

I'll supply the address, if someone would supply the credit card?:D

neiltvauthority

06-10-05, 12:54 AM

Evening all --

According to the West Coast district sales manager, the JVC HD52G786/886 won't be shipping for at least 4 more weeks. I'm not sure what the heck the folks at DTVCity are talking about. JVC Cypress is located about 30 miles from our office, and they've assured us no product is available in their warehouse. Not to mention does not drop ship from their warehouses to customers.

We will begin taking pre-orders shortly for the HD52G and HD56G.

Thanks all!

Ed Dixon

06-10-05, 08:00 AM

Received our 52Z585 model yesterday. Two things seem odd after initial setup.

1. Fan noise
2. Panorama aspect ratio

The fan noise is quite loud and comes on as soon as the TV is turned on (even after 8 or more hours of being off). It requires a volume setting of 8-10 to exceed the fan noise. This seems very high for a TV. Is this normal?

The Panorama aspect ration settings crops the top and bottom area when stretching the picture. For example on CNN, the bottom crawl line is lost. We have another HD set in house and it’s stretched mode only adjust the horizontal image to fill the screen, making no changes to the vertical image.

I would expect the zoom (Cinema) setting to do this, but not the stretch setting. Is this normal?

Ed

videobruce

06-10-05, 09:38 AM

I thought that would get Neil into the act.............. ;)

So much for DTV City's creditability.

Kid Red

06-10-05, 10:28 AM

Why would Sony -or anyone- put out a product with an output that no one could use? And would the improvement be all that noticeable, if it could be displayed?

1080p? Would that be at 24, 30 or 60 fps?

Because that product won't be out for at least a year. By that time, we should have what 2-3 TVs that output 1080p and who knows what else.

Kid Red

06-10-05, 10:36 AM

ed- Fan noise is loud, but not that loud in reality. You'll get used to it. Some have said acoustic foam placed on the wall behind the TV helps.

As for the panorama functions, I don't stretch, so I can't comment.

Ed Dixon

06-10-05, 11:38 AM

With TV volume set on 30, fan noise is still clearly heard. This is something we wouldn't even try to get used to.

Ed

lorenzow

06-10-05, 12:11 PM

Why would Sony -or anyone- put out a product with an output that no one could use?

To sell PS3 compatible Sony SXRD TV's and Blu-Ray players and media, maybe?

Ed Dixon

06-10-05, 02:34 PM

This one came from TV Authority, so the ball is in their court. Unless they can come up with something, this one will go back as well.

Ed

SouthBark

06-10-05, 03:10 PM

Contacted DTV City again today. They said 2-3 weeks on the 52G786/886. Seems they have corrected their stock status, but not on their web site yet. This is now close to Neils info of about 4 weeks.

I would say DTV City does have good "credibility", just by looking at their reviews and BBB status.

Ed Dixon

06-10-05, 03:41 PM

Talked to TV Authority about the fan noise problem. They were very nice and suggested a call to JVC. I checked the JVC web site, and then called the local service center.

They guy there (who seemed quite familiar with these sets) told me they get lots of complaints about the fan noise in these klind of JVC sets and there was nothing they could do about it. Apparently JVC designed a large fan and gave little thought to the noise factor.

So the set goes back and we start over looking for a set. Anyone else considering these sets should really think about this noise issue. For us, and apparentlly for others, it was a show stopper.

Ed

Stacy Huff

06-10-05, 03:43 PM

My JVC is in an apartment, so any fan noise created by the TV has to compete with noise from the refridgerator, the air conditioning, two computers, and a baby monitor. So far I have only noticed the fan running late at night when I turn the TV and everything else off just before bed. Still, I suspect that I'm mostly hearing the reflections bouncing off the very hard wall behind the TV. I may try to put a towel or something back there (not blocking the exhaust port, of course) to see whether or not it might absord some of the sound.

chazno

06-10-05, 04:23 PM

Post from Jeff Freilich on ecoustics in the Giant JVC thread May 11th
sorry cant link it.

"
I have the HD61Z575 and was bothered by the fan noise (which increases in volume as the set heats up) and the ensuing whiny tone that emanates from the front of the set. I had the front fan replaced (the exhaust fan, there are two other cooling fans), but it made no difference. I had the set sitting on top of a glass table with components on the two lower shelves. Using a sound level meter, I recorded 50dbs at 4' coming from the front of the set just from the sound of the fan. Because I like the picture so much on this JVC, I was determined to work out the fan noise issue.

First: the bulk of the egregious noise is transmitted by reverbs off the surface on which the set sits. If the set is resting on a hard surface, the noise will be amplified. I lay a 1/4" sheet of acoustic vinyl on top of the glass table and reduced the noise by about 30%. 50dbs were read inside 3'. Then, I discovered that most of the sound came from the 1/4" space between the surface of the table and the lower front edge of the JVC. The set itself rests on several small "feet" that elevate the television. I cut a 2" wide by 30" long strip of 1/4" spongy poster board (available at any art store) and placed it under the front of the television, flush with the front edge. I trimmed the front edge of the board with black electrical tape so it's virtually invisible. 50dbs can now only be read at 6". When I sit 12' from the set now, I can barely hear the fan noise and the whiny tone is completely gone. If you read the JVC site carefully, they make a point of stating the the surface on which the set rests determines the volume of the fan noise (e.g. harder surface = more noise).

My advice is to simply buy the $5 piece of poster board, tape the edge with a dark color, and slide it under the front edge of the set to block the space between the table surface and the bottom of the television. The sound eminating from the front surface of the television is minimal and won't bother the viewer from 12'.

The quality of the picture on these sets - the closest to film on any rear-projection HD - is worth keeping"

part two:
"
To RaveD and Bob Low -

RE: fan noise

I live in Southern California where material like acoustic vinyl is easier to get than most places (due to the number of recording and post-production studios). The truth is, almost any thin sheet of soft vinyl or even 1/8" foam rubber would do. I purchased mine (and it's pretty expensive) from Steve Klein (available on the internet most likely) in N. Hollywood . The sheet is about 6" wider (on all sides) than the footprint of the television.

I cut the sheet of 1/4" insulated poster board to 30". The set is actually about 34" wide at its base. The 2" on either side allows for the feet to sit on the table, not the poster board. I lifted each side of the set to insert the poster board under the set's front edge. The set rests perfectly level and is not elevated by the 1/4" board. All the board does is seal the front space under the television so no sound resonates from below the set and out toward the viewing area.

I failed to mention (although I believe this has little effect) that I mounted a 2'X4' acoustic sound board (also from Steven Klein) on the wall behind the set. I wanted to ensure that no sound emanating from the rear fans would bounce off the wall.

The JVC discharges no heat from beneath the television. All out ports are at the rear of the set. As long as you leave about 3" between the rear of the set and the wall, it should vent perfectly.

I will post a photo of the set up soon. It's actually easier to describe than to display in a photo, because the poster board, as I've placed it, is almost invisible.

I am considering, because I've become obsessive about eliminating all noise from the fans, building a panel lined with acoustic foam and cut to the contour of the front of the television to allow for the curved power panel (the blue power light and red LED). I don't use the JVC's speakers and know that if I put a facing in the front of the set, I can totally kill the noise - slight as it is now - coming from the fan. If I finish it in black lacquer, it'll look really nice. But, until it rains for about three days straight, I think I'll wait. There are better things to do. Like actually WATCHING the JVC.

Hope this helps."

MoPro

06-10-05, 06:00 PM

There are better things to do. Like actually WATCHING the JVC.

Hope this helps."

I too had a couple of Z585's, and the fan noise was more than excessive!

My TV's were mounted on the JVC stand, so there was no table or panel acting as a sound carrier/reflector. My TV's were first generation, so they had other problems that were deal breakers for me, but the excessive fan noise was definitely way up on the list.

It was very difficult to hear the sound of the audio from my surround system (Onkyo TX-DS787) at a reasonable level, and when the fan kicked in to high gear (about 90 minutes after powered up) the fan noise was down right distracting from 9' away.

My room acoustics are no different than the norm.

I really hope JVC decides that fan noise is an issue that should be addressed in future models.

Kid Red

06-10-05, 11:37 PM

My guess is those who complain about fan noise don't have a DVR, a Tivo, or large av rack with fans installed. I don't even hear the JVC anymore with the other fans going. I'll admit it was loud at first with no other units with fans, but I knew and prepared for the fan noise. It was there, sure, but a deal breaker? Hardly.

Ed Dixon

06-11-05, 12:15 AM

I have a Tivo, a HD Receiver, DVD, Dolby 5.1 speaker system, and Kenwood receiver. The fan noise is 4-5 times the combined total from those other devices.

Ed

gazelle

06-11-05, 12:55 AM

I have a Tivo, a HD Receiver, DVD, Dolby 5.1 speaker system, and Kenwood receiver. The fan noise is 4-5 times the combined total from those other devices.

Ed

You've got a problem.

navychop

06-11-05, 06:21 PM

I don't have a fan noise problem with my 61Z786. Now is that because there has been a change in fans, cabinet, etc since the 575? Or the fact that mine is on double folded cloth tapestry and not right up against a wall? My HVAC fan is usually on, so that may be a factor. I can't hear the fan until after it kicks into high, or after I turn off the set. Even then, it's certainly not objectionable.

Cyclonus

06-11-05, 10:26 PM

huskerforlife

06-11-05, 10:42 PM

I've been reading a lot about these JVC D-ILA TV's for 8 - 10 months, and I'm fairly certain I'm going to get one. The only thing I can't figure out at this point is whether to get the 52 inch or 61 inch. After careful masurment, I've determined that the screen will be 12.5 feet from my eyes (I'm certain that figure is no more than 3 inches off). Also, the majority of my viewing is television (HD when available, otherwise standard), with some amount games and DVD's. Any info would be appreciated.

I have the HD-61Z786 with a normal viewing distance of 13.5 ft. No issues at all at that distance. I have even watched analog SD at 9 ft without any problems. As one who was originally going to wait for the 56" but became impatient and got the 61" I am now very glad I didn't go any smaller. I would definitely go with the 61".

navychop

06-11-05, 11:16 PM

I am 12' away. I have a 61Z786. I wouldn't go any smaller.

RRDave

06-12-05, 07:56 AM

I too, have the 61-z786 at a viewing distance of 10'. At first it seemed too big, (previous set was a 32" Panasonic Tau) but after living with it for awhile, I would even consider the 70" version. On HD or DVD, it's fabulous. On SD, depending on the particular program, it ranges from good to mediocre. I purchased this set for the long term, when, hopefully more programs will be HD or at least digital transmissions from source to set.

videobruce

06-12-05, 08:29 AM

I really hate to see people return sets just because of fan noise. :(
My guess is those who complain about fan noise don't have a DVR, a Tivo, or large av rack with fans installed. Thank you.

chazno; very good post! I don't think you need anything expensive. A small rug, blanket or towel placed on the stand where the TV is and one hung on the wall behind the set should make a big difference. A piece of 1" foam probably would do it and that isn't wxpensive.
JVC isn't the only set that people have complained about fan noise. After listening to the 3 fans in my tower and the buzz from a noisy relay in my power control strip (commerical rack mount unit) I would welcome a little noise from any HDTV now.

After looking at all those sterile condos on H&G TV when my wife watches House Hunters, my take is, it's in a 'hard' room!
1. little if any rugs,
2. little if any curtains or drapes (you know, those things everyone use to put over windows),
3. not a whole lot of cushioned furniture.

all of which will amplify any noise that is generated. I don't think I have sen a 'owners' thread on any set here that didn't hqave posts complaining about fan noise.
I think it should be mandtory for everyone to watch a hour's worth of home 8mm movies with B&H movie projector.
Now, THAT'S fan noise! ;)

MoPro

06-12-05, 12:30 PM

I really hate to see people return sets just because of fan noise. :(
Thank you.

I think it should be mandtory for everyone to watch a hour's worth of home 8mm movies with B&H movie projector.
Now, THAT'S fan noise! ;)

I can't believe you guy's are trying to minimize, and even in some cases justify the excessive fan noise. If the noise wasn't too loud, then you wouldn't be trying to come up with creative ways to dampen the sound.

If the sound wasn't too loud, then so many people wouldn't be complaining!

If you are comfortable with the noise level of a helicopter inside your TV , then more power to you, and I hope you own the "Apocalypse Now" DVD, as the fan noise is sure to enhance your listening pleasure. :D

For those of us that enjoy the full dynamic range of our surround systems, the lower the noise floor, the bigger the impact. I mean, that is the reason why most of us invest in decent surround systems in the first place, and it is the hallmark of Dolby Digital, DTS, THX, etc.

Anything else is an unwelcome distraction!

Film makers these days spend an enormous amount of money to make sure the audio has every bit the impact as the video. It's a shame that some of the TV manufacturers have chosen not to respect that issue.

Kid Red

06-12-05, 03:02 PM

I have a Tivo, a HD Receiver, DVD, Dolby 5.1 speaker system, and Kenwood receiver. The fan noise is 4-5 times the combined total from those other devices.

Ed

In that case, I'd say something was wrong then. If the JVC is the only thing on, the fan is loud but wasn't a deal breaker for my wife and I. Now with more equipment and more fans, I can't even hear the JVC any longer.

videobruce

06-13-05, 08:29 AM

If you are comfortable with the noise level of a helicopter inside your TV I don't deny there is SOME noise from these fans, but don't you think that is a little excessive of a description??

I have been in stores that were fairly quite (mind you, it's not at home, but still quiet). and still haven't heard any fan noise yet even when I put my ear to the rear of the set.!

OK, if we could get away from fans for a moment, anyone with OTA and the G series of sets with the built in ATSC tuner, how is the switching time between ATSC stations (lock up time)?

Ed Dixon

06-13-05, 09:17 AM

Kid Red

06-13-05, 09:27 AM

I just received confirmation from JVC, the 52" will be shipping in 3-4 weeks as said earlier. I can't wait for my exchange.

videobruce

06-13-05, 09:35 AM

I can't wait for my exchange. Who did you get the set from and just how old is it?lack of a usable stretch display mode I didn't know there was a 'usable" stretch mode. Any 'stretch' mode I have seen, to me, isn't 'usable'! ;)

Ed Dixon

06-13-05, 09:50 AM

I didn't know there was a 'usable" stretch mode. Any 'stretch' mode I have seen, to me, isn't 'usable'! ;)

On our Mits set, it had a stretch display mode. It takes 4x3 source data and stretches it to fit the 16x9 display. The vertical is not altered so the top to bottom image content before and after is the same. It stretches the horizontal to fill the 16x9 screen and stretches the edges more than the center portion. This results in a more normal/pleasing image for peoples faces and other similar things that are usually more screen centered. The before and after images have identical content, just formated for the 16x9 screen.

With the JVC stretch mode, it does a similar thing to the horizotal image, but also clips the vertical image. The result at first looks pleasing until you watch something with key data at top or bottom of screen and realize it's gone. For example on CNN, the bottom scroll content is lost and the top headline headers.

Ed

MoPro

06-13-05, 11:16 AM

I don't deny there is SOME noise from these fans, but don't you think that is a little excessive of a description??

I have been in stores that were fairly quite (mind you, it's not at home, but still quiet). and still haven't heard any fan noise yet even when I put my ear to the rear of the set.!

Okay! I admit my description was a little "over the top" (excuse the pun). It was just an attempt at some levity. :D

But, It's difficult to tell how loud the fans are until you actually have one in your room.

I've tried to monitor the fan noise, just as you did, and I agree it was difficult to hear the fans at the stores, but I believe the stores environment, even though it may seem quiet, is far more noisy than any room in your house. I know that is true with mine!

Most of the stores that sell the JVC models, also display them amongst many other TV's that also contribute to raising the noise floor. They also sell many other appliances, not to mention audio gear that is usually playing something not related to the program material of the feed for the TV's, and let's not forget the Muszak, that I doubt you have playing in your house.

Though it may not be a helicopter... the first time you hear the fan kick into high gear, will probably remind you of something about to "take-off", and that is no exaggeration. :D

Kid Red

06-13-05, 11:30 AM

Who did you get the set from and just how old is it? I didn't know there was a 'usable" stretch mode. Any 'stretch' mode I have seen, to me, isn't 'usable'! ;)

Mine is a Dec build. I've had 3 light engine replacements and JVC gave me the trade in option. So, I asked to wait for the new models and they said sure. I will have to pay any difference, but who cares as it's a new set 6 months later. The street prices on these new sets may even be less the the old ones.

Kid Red

06-13-05, 11:31 AM

Okay! I admit my description was a little "over the top" (excuse the pun). It was just an attempt at some levity. :D

But, It's difficult to tell how loud the fans are until you actually have one in your room.

I've tried to monitor the fan noise, just as you did, and I agree it was difficult to hear the fans at the stores, but I believe the stores environment, even though it may seem quiet, is far more noisy than any room in your house. I know that is true with mine!

Most of the stores that sell the JVC models, also display them amongst many other TV's that also contribute to raising the noise floor. They also sell many other appliances, not to mention audio gear that is usually playing something not related to the program material of the feed for the TV's, and let's not forget the Muszak, that I doubt you have playing in you house.

Though it may not be a helicopter... the first time you hear the fan kick into high gear, will probably remind you of something about to "take-off", and that is no exaggeration. :D

You are right tho, the first time you hear it, assuming nom other units with fans, it does rather surprise you. However, it did not take long to become accustomed to the fan or the PQ :)

videobruce

06-13-05, 11:39 AM

I agree it was difficult to hear the fans at the stores, but I believe the stores environment, even though it may seem quiet, is far more noisy than any room in your house.Agreed. I guess it's up to you since you have to live with it. It just bothers me when I see someone sending something back for something stupid (not on your part) as a noisey fan.........

navychop

06-13-05, 01:28 PM

videobruce:
"...anyone with OTA and the G series of sets with the built in ATSC tuner, how is the switching time between ATSC stations (lock up time)?..."

I have the 61Z786 with built in ATSC tuner and a rooftop OTA antenna (Z and G indicate cabinet styles). I also have the LG LST-4200A STB on another TV (this is probably the finest STB ATSC tuner you can buy today). I love my JVC. But I must readily admit the channel changing time, using the up and down buttons, is too long. It must be about 2 seconds. Maybe when I get home tonight I will measure it. Also, you cannot hold the up or down and speed thru channels, like you can with the LG. So I tend to punch in channel numbers, if I have more than one channel up or down to go. The LG switches channels faster, and seems to bring in more stations- but oddly enough, the LG does not pick up DTV 14, but the JVC does. Part of the reception difference may be due to how they are wired. The LG has a direct coax to a distro amp at the antenna; I set the JVC up such that it gets it's OTA signal from a diplexer off the satellite signal coax.

It's not a killer, but JVC ought to improve it.

I have a variety of "stretch" modes on mine, and can always shift to another one if I don't like the default. I never lose much from overscan, there's always a mode available that provides a complete picture.

videobruce

06-14-05, 08:34 AM

The LG has a direct coax to a distro amp at the antenna; I set the JVC up such that it gets it's OTA signal from a diplexer off the satellite signal coax.Swap cables and report back.

navychop

06-14-05, 10:45 AM

They are on two different floors and it would involve a very long run of coax. But I just might do it- it's beginning to bug me.

RaveD

06-14-05, 01:30 PM

I suspect room acoustics also play a role here. My situation is a small room (10x12) with hardwood floors and a viewing distance of about 9 feet. with the door closed, the fan noise is still audible behind the TV sound until the sound gets in the 30+ range.

Perhaps in a larger open family room with carpet and longer viewing distances, it might be less noticable, but here it is the predominant sound heard as soon as the set comes on.

That coupled with the lack of a usable stretch display mode are the main reasons we are returning the set for something else.

Ed
An owner over on the ecoustics forum discovered that most of the fan noise eminates from under the TV.

You can significantly reduce fan noise by (1) placing the TV on acoustic tile, foam rubber or similar surface (i.e. not directly on a hard wood or glass table) and (2) stuffing a 2" x 0.5" x 30" piece of artist's poster board underneath the front of the TV, between the rubber feet.

Just doing #2 I have reduced the fan noise significantly, and the TV still sits directly on a glass table, close to the wall, and there is no carpeting in the room. I suspect I can reduce the noise even further by placing some non-sound-reflecting material like carpet or foam on the wall directly behind the TV.

As for the stretch modes, I don't use them, but I don't understand your complaint: the "panorama" stretch mode stretches 4:3 to 16:9 by stretching the edges more than the middle, and it does not remove any vertical information. The "full" mode stretches evenly, also maintaining the vertical information.

videobruce

06-16-05, 08:32 AM

navychop; I would have run a extra cable to each location for expansion. Can never have enough cables. ;)

arbleb

06-16-05, 10:30 AM

Okay -- I've had zero luck finding the right size stand for this 61" JVC that will ALSO hold a very large center speaker (unless I spend $500 -- but I already blew my budget on the RV :) )

So, I'm going to build my own stand (Lord help me!).

Since I'm building it, I want to make it the exact right height. My viewing height from about 12' is around 44".

If the specs don't lie, the TV is 41 1/8 inches high. Can anybody tell me how many inches from the bottom of the TV to where the display actually starts? I was guessing around 5" (41 - 5 = 36" display. 36/2 = 18" to middle. 44" - 18" - 5" = 21" high stand).

So, if you have a JVC 61", could you post up a quick measurement of how much space is at the bottom of the TV before the actual display starts?

Thank you!!!!!!

navychop

06-16-05, 12:41 PM

"....Can never have enough cables....."

Ain't it the truth. I have twin coax throughout for the Cox cable system (which no longer uses both coax, but the run is such that the second coax is really not usable for sat or OTA), an OTA coax, one or two sat coax, one phone, and one to three RJ-45 for the home network. I don't subscribe to cable anymore, but feel leaving the wiring in is a future selling point. Not all connections go to each wall plate, but each room has it all, including the kitchen. Yet I still find myself running more cable, because of this two sat coax to the 721 & 942 (& I expect, the 962). Plus, we did leave off the guest bedroom from the satellite connections, which will now be remedied.

The diplexer was used in order to reduce the number of coax to the living room (that box is crowded). Now I'll run a straight (temp) coax there to see if it matters. Plus, I'll hook up the LG LST-4200A to the 61Z786 HDMI input to test it, and to see if the LG picks up different channels on the diplexed coax. Busy weekend ahead.

Does anyone know if diplexers are known to reduce sensitivity for OTA, when combined with sat coax? FWIW, I needed the diplexers in a hurry, and bought the only brand available- Terk (a brand I normally avoid).

arbleb- I'll try to remember to measure tonight and post, if no one beats me to it.

MoPro

06-16-05, 02:38 PM

"

Does anyone know if diplexers are known to reduce sensitivity for OTA, when combined with sat coax? FWIW, I needed the diplexers in a hurry, and bought the only brand available- Terk (a brand I normally avoid)."

What is the bandwidth and gain reduction of your diplexer?

You may want to check out this link, they seem to be discussing what you need.

Check this out! (http://www.*************.us/showthread.php?t=21059)

Seems that diplexing an OTA signal can be very complex (more expensive) because of all the noise! :)

donb1948

06-16-05, 03:35 PM

You may want to check out this link, they seem to be discussing what you need.

Check this out! (http://www.*************.us/showthread.php?t=21059)
MoPro... The link is broken. Looks like you copied a condensed link description instead of the actual URL. This is what shows up as the URL: http://www.*************.us/showthread.php?t=21059 :(

MoPro

06-16-05, 05:35 PM

MoPro... The link is broken. Looks like you copied a condensed link description instead of the actual URL. This is what shows up as the URL: http://www.*************.us/showthread.php?t=21059 :(

I didn't copy it wrong; It seems that the moderator doesn't want me to post a link to that URL.

Each time I try to fix the link, the server replaces part of the URL with stars. :(

What the hell is up with that! :confused:

navychop

06-16-05, 06:29 PM

arbleb:

I measure 9 & 1/4 inches from the surface the TV is on to the very bottom edge of the display area. I also measure 40 & 7/8 as the height of the TV. Yes, I know the pub'd figures are 57 & 3/8, 41 & 1/8 and 18 & 5/8. But I measure: 57 & 3/8, 40 & 7/8 and fore to aft is kinda hard to be precise, but appears to be 18 & 5/8.

FWIW, mine is on a 35 & 1/2 inch tall stand that my wife likes. So our eye level is quite near the bottom of the display. If we stand up and stoop to where our eyes are dead center in the display, it is a bit brighter than from our seated position. But not enough to tilt the display or get a shorter stand. Probably would not notice it if we weren't looking for it. So the vertical viewing angle is superb- I wouldn't worry too much about being spot on. BTW we are at a 12' viewing distance.

Have you considered the stand TVA sells? (http://www.tvauthority.com/DILA-and-LCOS-TVs/JVC-HD-61Z786.asp)

arbleb

06-16-05, 09:59 PM

Thank you! Huge help!

videobruce

06-17-05, 08:58 AM

arbleb; my stands' size was dictated by what was to go underneath the set, not the set itself (since I don't have one yet). Good luck with the stand, go to the BYO thread and take your time.
MoPro; what browser are you using? Can you type the link, or at least the home page of the site?

BruteWes

06-17-05, 12:08 PM

Question on model numbers:

Are the older models in 52" and 61" only? (52Z585 & 61Z575 ) ?
Are the newer models in 61" and 70" only? (61Z786 & 70G886) ?

I thought I read about a 56" somewhere....

Also, with the different aspect modes, do they have one the expands a 4:3 image horizontally ONLY, and stretched the edge more than the center? I hate when 4:3 is expanded vertically as well, because you lost some off the top and bottom.

Thanks!

BestServedCold

06-17-05, 12:20 PM

The 56" sets are not shipping yet (pant, pant).

They will be numbered: HD-56G786, HD-56G886

The cabinet color is reversed on the new models I.E. 786 = Black.

BruteWes

06-17-05, 01:59 PM

Ahh, ok, are the 56" 1080p? If so, I expect them to be over $3K, right? If not, ya htink probably around $2300 or so? Are there specs on the 56" listed anywhere?

BestServedCold

06-17-05, 02:15 PM

Nope!

From the JVC Press Release on their site:

The first new sets to be available will be 720p models: the HD-52G886 (52 inches), HD-56G886 (56 inches), HD-61Z886 (61 inches) and the HD-70G886 (70 inches), all with silver cabinets. Black cabinet versions of the 52-, 56- and 61-inch models will also be available (models HD-52G786, HD-56G786 and HD-61Z786, respectively). All are ATSC tuner/CableCARD™-equipped, feature PC inputs, and dual IEEE 1394 inputs. The HD-70G886 adds a memory card slot for convenient direct playback of still images and video from the full array of flash memory cards.

Late in the year’s third quarter, JVC will ship the 56-inch HD-56FH96, 61-inch HD-61FH96 and 70-inch HD-70FH96, which offer resolution of 1080p using a 1920 x 1080 (over 2 million pixels x 3 panels), 0.7-inch D-ILA device. Each will offer dual HDMI inputs, and the 70-inch model will also include a memory card slot.

Gotta wait some more if you wish to go 1080P in a JVC set.

navychop

06-17-05, 02:19 PM

BruteWes:

See this link (http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=445) for the original JVC press release. The 1080 models all have FH in the model number and are not due out until the fall.

Different modes are available: Full, Regular, Panorama, Cinema- not all are available with each input. You can stretch or not stretch. You can chose to stretch the edges but not the center, or "overscan" (in effect) to lose some of the top and bottom. Your choice. I have the 61Z786 and love it- sat SD from DISH looks a lot better than I expected- quite good. In effect I have a 50" 4:3 image for SD.

BruteWes

06-17-05, 03:00 PM

So you're saying you can stretch JUST horizontally and not vertically? So a ticker at the bottom of the screen would still be seen? Can you do this for all inputs/sources?

navychop

06-17-05, 04:12 PM

Go to the JVC 61Z786 manual (http://books.jvcservice.com/download/641107744/36242.pdf) and look at page 74. It will explain it. Yes, there are stretches in both directions (or just one), and which modes are available depends upon which input or signal you are using (pg 75). You can keep or cut off the ticker.

BestServedCold

06-17-05, 04:25 PM

You can keep or cut off the ticker.

Now, if we can just come up with a Mod to replace the Channel Bug with original content, we'll all be rich!

dkennedy

06-18-05, 07:31 AM

JVC HD-ILA 61Z786 (manufactured March 2005) with CableCard

I just got the Time Warner (TW) CableCard installed and I have 3 peculiar problems.

Problem 1

My setup before the cablecard was with an OTA antenna coax in and cable in (analog cable) without cable box. I was able to switch between OTA HD channels and the analog cable channels.

Now, I installed the cablecard, the tuner setup is no longer available on the tv menu and I can't switch to the OTA HD channels unless I remove the cablecard.

Yes, I know that with the cablecard I pick up TW HD channels but TW doesn't transmit all of my local HD channels.

What did I do wrong?

Problem 2

I think this a TW problem with cablecard. But with the cablecard installed I can get all SD channels, once I add a premium channel like HBO to my account, I lose some of the SD channels like Disney West, FOX Soccer Channel, etc...TW is coming back on Wednesday to troubleshoot, meanwhile, I'm back to regular digital cable without premiums. The funny thing is I pay for the TW HD Tier and I get those channels without problems. So it seems that the problem is with the premiums & cablecard...

Problem 3

I have a Samsung HD-850 Dvd player installed via HDMI to the tv with DVD audio set to BITSTREAM. The dvd is connected via audio optical out to my stereo receiver. Without the cablecard I get Dolby Digital at my receiver and audio on the TV, however, when I installed the cablecard I get Dolby Digital at my receiver but no sound on the tv unless I change the DVD player audio output to PCM but when I do this, I lose the DD on the receiver.

What am I doing wrong?

kalin02

06-19-05, 07:47 PM

this question is for kid red or someone else who was brave enough to take your dila apart for the filter mod; how difficult do you think it would be to switch out the original fan for one that might be quieter? this might sound strange but i usually like to fall asleep while watching tv but the fan actually wakes me up if the timer doesn't cut the tv off first.

Kid Red

06-19-05, 09:59 PM

kalin02- there are 2 fans I think, the one you speak of may be accessible, I can't say for sure from memory. However, I'd be careful of switching it out for one that does not move as the exact amount of air the current fan does. Putting in a fan that doesn't cool the bulb accurately could be very bad. Either way, I can't say for hard how hard it would be offhand because i never paid much attention to the fan.

Others have noted various techniques for quieting the fan a few pages back. Putting foam core under the TV, placing acoustic foam or similar behind the TV to absorb the sound, etc.

Luffy

06-20-05, 12:53 AM

Does anyone know how much the JVC bulbs costs and their rated hours? I couldn't seem to find the info on JVC's website :(

reincarnate

06-20-05, 07:09 AM

Why would Sony -or anyone- put out a product with an output that no one could use? And would the improvement be all that noticeable, if it could be displayed?

1080p? Would that be at 24, 30 or 60 fps?
Quote:
"Why would Sony -or anyone- put out a product with an output that no one could use?"
Following this logic why not stick with 1280*720 60fps displays? Or just go back to VHS tapes...:)

Quote:
"And would the improvement be all that noticeable, if it could be displayed?"
Yes. Easily. Progressive signals are superior to interlaced signals. Internally all signals are SCALED to 1920*1080 60fps. The goal is here is to avoid this unnecessary scaling (which causes distortion).

The goal of all digital 1:1 pixel mapping is to feed the display exactly the format it natively displays at. That is, 1920*1080 60 - 72 fps.
1920*1080 24 fps is a progressive format and can be repeated in cadence to achieve 60fps without pixel distortion.

Marantz has already announced a DVD player which will output a 1920*1080 progressive signal. Remember that todays DVD players also output 480 progressive 60fps signal too. Progressive signals equate to high performance and quality.

See for Yourself
---------------------
For those who are viewing this post on an LCD monitor, change the computers resolution to another to force the PC display/monitor to scale. The pixel distortion is VERY easy to see. For example most 17-19" LCD displays have a native resolution of 1280*1024. Change your computers resolution to 1024*768 and behold the serious degradation in picture quality.

So there you have it, next year at this time we can all own state-of-the-art gear which can generate 1920-1080 progressive signals whether it be Dvd player, computers or gaming supercomputers (PS3).

So the question is really this: Can I afford to upgrade twice in rapid secession? Do I have money to burn? (I can already hear the whining of next years posts to AVS forum). Logic dictates to skip the displays which will only accept 1080i INPUTS.

Finally some manufactures desire to dupe and confuse the consumer into buying 1080i input signal displays by falsely advertising them as "1080p". Beware as the trap has been set just for you!
Also be aware that equipment manufactures can have employees post to this forum. JVC and Sony are direct competitors. This is why some posts (in this thread) do not follow logic or reason. Beware!

dkennedy

06-20-05, 09:24 AM

JVC HD-ILA 61Z786 (manufactured March 2005) with CableCard

I just got the Time Warner (TW) CableCard installed and I have 3 peculiar problems.

Problem 3

I have a Samsung HD-850 Dvd player installed via HDMI to the tv with DVD audio set to BITSTREAM. The dvd is connected via audio optical out to my stereo receiver. Without the cablecard I get Dolby Digital at my receiver and audio on the TV, however, when I installed the cablecard I get Dolby Digital at my receiver but no sound on the tv unless I change the DVD player audio output to PCM but when I do this, I lose the DD on the receiver.

What am I doing wrong?

*** UPDATE ***

I no longer have problem 3. I replaced my Samsung HD-850 with the LG DVB418 (manufactured April 2005) besides fixing the sound, I now have better PQ with DVD's. This should hold me over until HD-DVD's come out.

navychop

06-20-05, 03:16 PM

contillion

06-20-05, 04:51 PM

This is for those people out there using the x86 with DirecTV. In general, how would you rate your picture quality? I am somewhat disappointed with my pq (color banding being the main issue) and I wanted to find out from those that have good -> great pq, which type of DSS receiver are you using? What connection - S-Video, Component, etc.?

I'm trying to decide whether or not to upgrade my DSS receiver (currently using a Hughes SD HBD) and to find out what models are the best or at least above average.

Anyone?

Luffy

06-20-05, 08:30 PM

Luffy:

Bulb life is 6,000 hours, per this JVC FAQ. (http://www.jvc.com/support/support.jsp?pageID=1&item=411#8477)

Go here (http://www.jvcservice.com/Service/JPartInq.asp) and enter TS-CL110U and you will see the bulb costs $250.

Wow ouch, are there any OEM lamps you can buy that costs less? I am kind of thinking these new sets aren't going to be worth it in the long term. My current Toshiba CRT (TW40x81) is still working great and it is 6years old. If I assume the same time before my next upgrade and approx. one bulb a year thats an added cost of $1250 over 5 years. I am kind of having second thoughts about buying one of these sets now because it would really suck to have a bulb go when you might not have the money to buy a replacement bulb at that particular time.

navychop

06-20-05, 11:42 PM

Johnla

06-21-05, 04:49 AM

For 5 hours a day, the bulb lasts on average well over 3 years. .

Maybe in theory, under perfect conditions that's what it should work out to at 5 hours per day. But in reality with everyday normal use and with all the on and off cycles of the bulb taken into account, it's very unlikely that they will last as long as 3 years or more. Right now so far it looks like for all the current sets that are using projection bulbs, right around a year - +, seems to be what most people are getting from them before they need to be replaced. So expecting them to maybe need replacing in around a years time, should be part of the planned cost of owning sets that use such bulbs.

dkennedy

06-21-05, 05:51 AM

JVC HD-ILA 61Z786 (manufactured March 2005) with CableCard

I just got the Time Warner (TW) CableCard installed and I have 3 peculiar problems.

Problem 1

My setup before the cablecard was with an OTA antenna coax in and cable in (analog cable) without cable box. I was able to switch between OTA HD channels and the analog cable channels.

Now, I installed the cablecard, the tuner setup is no longer available on the tv menu and I can't switch to the OTA HD channels unless I remove the cablecard.

Yes, I know that with the cablecard I pick up TW HD channels but TW doesn't transmit all of my local HD channels.

What did I do wrong?

Problem 2

I think this a TW problem with cablecard. But with the cablecard installed I can get all SD channels, once I add a premium channel like HBO to my account, I lose some of the SD channels like Disney West, FOX Soccer Channel, etc...TW is coming back on Wednesday to troubleshoot, meanwhile, I'm back to regular digital cable without premiums. The funny thing is I pay for the TW HD Tier and I get those channels without problems. So it seems that the problem is with the premiums & cablecard...

*** UPDATE ***

Problem 1 is normal according to JVC. Once the cablecard is inserted it takes over both coax antenna inputs, it uses one for digital cable channels and the other for analog cable channels. The ability to go into the menu item for the tuner is disabled with the cablecard.

Problem 2 is a Time Warner cablecard issue that they are still working on. Apparently, I can watch anything but premium channels. If I want premium channels then I lose the digital channels.

Stacy Huff

06-21-05, 09:06 AM

Maybe in theory, under perfect conditions that's what it should work out to at 5 hours per day. But in reality with everyday normal use and with all the on and off cycles of the bulb taken into account, it's very unlikely that they will last as long as 3 years or more. Right now so far it looks like for all the current sets that are using projection bulbs, right around a year - +, seems to be what most people are getting from them before they need to be replaced. So expecting them to maybe need replacing in around a years time, should be part of the planned cost of owning sets that use such bulbs.

I think that I'm going to be able to provie AVS with a general idea about how long a bulb lasts under abnormally high use. I have the 61Z575 and right now I'm probably watching a minimum of 10 hours per day. I work from home, so I basically end up parked in front of the TV all day long. From Sportscenter in the morning through the prime time shows until The Late Late Show with that guy from The Drew Carey show, the TV is on. If I can get a year, then I'll be pleased. If I can actually get anywhere near 6000 hours, I'll be tickled pink. My bet, though, is that it will be far less.

Luffy

06-21-05, 12:15 PM

If you are replacing a bulb a year, it sounds like you're in commercial service, running over 16 hours a day. For 5 hours a day, the bulb lasts on average well over 3 years.

Yeah like Johnla said, I have been following the various threads on all RPTVs here regarding bulbs and people seem to be changing them about every year. So that really needs to be considered an added cost to the purchase price. I don't watch anywhere near 16 hours a day, at most maybe 5 hours a day but probably less.

The CRT RPTV is dead in the market, and despite the conspiracy theories, it's dead because people want something else. Look how few are for sale today, and how many fewer will be available next year. If that's what you want, fine- buy it. But it's only cheaper up front. Microdisplays have much longer potential lifespans- bulbs are much cheaper than CRT tubes. I expect bulb prices to remain high for the next 5 years or so. Maybe they'll go down in price around then, as production ramps up. Frankly, I expect within 10 years we'll probably all have moved on to new display technologies not even sold today.

Actually I am in the market for non-CRT otherwise I wouldn't be here ;). CRTs are cheaper all around not just upfront. No scientific data, just my personal experience. My current set cost me about $2300 for 6 years of use and it still going strong. If this were a D-ILA it would cost me about the same for the TV ~$2500 + approx. 1 bulb a year (5 years assuming original bulb lasted 1 year) $1250 = $3750. As far as maintence costs go I have none for the CRT as I do the calibration myself (probably not as good as ISF but good enough for me), and well I don't clean the insides of the tv but I see no dust or anything in the picture so it isn't an issue or added cost. You say the set I have won't have a long lifespan but that doesn't matter as long as it lasts till my next upgrade and so far it is still working great and I am now looking to upgrade soon so it has already exceeded my expectations. So while microdisplays might have a longer life expectancy it really doesn't matter to me because I am pretty sure that in 5-7 years I will be wanting to buy a new set, so the upfront cost for the initial 5 years is actually more important.

MoPro

06-21-05, 01:44 PM

So while microdisplays might have a longer life expectancy it really doesn't matter to me because I am pretty sure that in 5-7 years I will be wanting to buy a new set, so the upfront cost for the initial 5 years is actually more important.

Amen Brother! :)

It is wishful thinking to expect any TV manufactured today to last more than a year without needing some kind of maintenance, major repair, or replacement!

This is the unfortunate reality we live in.

I'm currently using a Pioneer rear projection CRT that was manufactured in 1991, and it still works! The CRT's need replacing, but after 14 years of service.

The only major repair was a faulty power supply midway through the 14 year cycle. That service cost a whopping $500, and that was the only expense! (Outside of cable and elec).

Now that I have had the experience of trying to, so called "upgrade" ( Two consecutive JVC D-ila's, last summer), I can safely say that I would be lucky to get much past the warranty period without needing some type of major repair or replacement, that's providing it even works right out of the box! ( My two JVC's didn't).

And guess what? after dealing with the two month headache of the, so called "upgrade", I understand exactly what you mean when you imply that CRT's over the long haul, are far less trouble, and I agree. :)

You guy's can yell about all the short-comings of CRT all you want...after 14 years, I have yet to see a burned-in image :) , and this new micro display technology has the painful potential to become a money-pit!

Yumf

06-21-05, 01:45 PM

I have been reading through your posts, but I'm still confused about one feture. Can you watch tv or a movie and play Xbox/PS2 on split screen on the JVC?

navychop

06-21-05, 06:05 PM

In home use, you will not likely be replacing the bulb each year. Counting on that in your calculations may make the calculations come out "right" for your answer, but they don't burn out in a year. We read of a few bad bulbs. The ones that burn out within a year have been replaced by JVC (and, I believe, Samsung and others). There are plenty of Samsung HLN series owners that are still on their original bulb, way past their first year or two of service. If they only lasted a year, we'd be hearing screaming from that quarter. These bulbs are similar. They are used in a variety of RPTVs- LCD, DLP and LCoS/DILA/SXRD. Bulbs may not last as long as CRT tubes, but they are A LOT cheaper.

CRTs are definitely the cheaper alternative. And for folks that accept them, they are a good bridge to a time a few years from now when technology will have shaken out, and the winning, long term display technologies may be clear. And cheaper than today. If you are happy with the PQ and your own tweaking, fine. There are a lot of posts about CRTs "needing" calibration and refocusing due to heat and aging of components. Certainly the high voltages attract dust on the mirrors and guns more than in other technologies. Maybe the purists see the difference, and lesser steps are "good enough" for the rest of us.

Some people get upset about bulbs burning out. Some see it as an advantage- new bulb, set is as good as new. And there may be resale value to think about, but I doubt that will amount to much in any case, with new technologies advancing so fast. But the day I replace my JVC, the JVC will become a secondary TV in my house. It's a keeper.

DaveInPA

06-22-05, 08:53 AM

Hey all of you PowerBuyers...
Did anyone receive a reimbursement from TVA for purchasing through the PowerBuy?
I'm sure they sold over 25 sets, but I haven't seen any cash in the mail from them.

From the TVA PowerBuy thread.....

Last, but not least, we are proud to announce volume discounts for AVS members beyond the already heavily discounted Powerbuy pricing. Our original Powerbuy price is set as low as ever before, but to further honor the AVS forum’s spirit of community, we’re going to give you even more money back! Here’s how it works:

à If TVAuthority receives more than 25 orders for JVC HD-ILA TVs, we will reimburse each one of you $25 in cold hard cash, not some worthless store credit that you’ll forget about!

à If TVAuthority receives more than 50 orders for JVC HD-ILA TVs, the reimbursement moves from $25 to $50 in cash.

à If TVAuthority receives more than 75 orders for JVC HD-ILA TVs, the reimbursement moves from $50 to $75 in cash.

à If TVAuthority receives more than 100 orders for JVC HD-ILA TVs, the reimbursement moves from $75 to $100 in cash.

à Finally, if TVAuthority receives more than 150 orders for JVC HD-ILA TVs, the reimbursement moves from $100 to $125 in cash. And to sweeten the deal, one lucky customer will receive his/her JVC HD-ILA TV for free! (Just be sure to thank your fellow AVS members for your great new free TV!)

navychop

06-22-05, 06:58 PM

I'm not sure they did. I didn't get any money back. I'm tempted to call....

RowdyUSP40

06-22-05, 10:40 PM

I'm not sure they did. I didn't get any money back. I'm tempted to call....

You should. :)

DaveInPA

06-23-05, 08:24 AM

The PowerBuy started on 3/24 and here's what Kirk said on 4/14...

Kirk Punches
Director of Sales
TV Authority
888-286-5353 x510
kirk@tvauthority.com

PS - we're 2 pieces away from qualifying everyone who has purchased for a $25 credit.

arbleb

06-26-05, 09:10 AM

Been in for two days!

So far, so good. But I do have a couple questions for my D-ILA brothas!

It took me about an hour to tweak it and PQ is doing very good EXCEPT where in the heck is the Contrast setting?! I turned off that Smart Picture thing but don't see a Contrast setting!

Also ... I *think* when I unplug it from the wall I lose all the settings I programmed in. I tweaked the set, realized the stand I made for it was too high. So I unplugged the set to saw off a couple inches on my stand. When I plugged it back in .... I had to start my tweaks over.

FINALLY - what is with that input selector?! Does anybody know if there are remote control codes to change directly to the correct input? I'd like to get the latest Harmony remote, but if I can't jump directly to an input then I can save the $250 :)

huskerforlife

06-26-05, 01:47 PM

FINALLY - what is with that input selector?! Does anybody know if there are remote control codes to change directly to the correct input? I'd like to get the latest Harmony remote, but if I can't jump directly to an input then I can save the $250 :)

I have the Harmony 680 remote with my HD-61786 and I love it. Each activity button such as Watch TV, Watch DVD, Watch DVR, etc can be programmed to directly switch to the correct input. Sometimes the activity button must be pressed twice if the TV is powered off because of the delay time between the TV starting and being ready to accept additional commands. I haven't messed with the delay settings but I'm sure it could be done. I found the 680 on a popular internet site for about 40% of what you quoted above. But the 880 with the rechargeable batteries might be worth it.

navychop

06-27-05, 09:53 PM

Well, I hooked up my JVC 61Z786 to my LG LST-4200A (NTSC & ATSC tuner) to test the HDMI port. The LG STB outputs via DVI, so I used an adapter to connect to the JVC's HDMI port. I ran the audio separately.

It worked fine. As part of this evening test, I wanted to see how the JVC tuner compared to the LG, using the same source. My antenna connection to the JVC is diplexed onto the DISH satellite cable. The diplexer may degrade the signal a bit, I haven't determined that, but the LG tuner is more sensitive, as it received more channels- but look at channel 11. ???

Under the heading of "more than you wanted to know" I've included the results below, for Burke, VA. The first column is the channel (NTSC followed by ATSC). X indicated fairly good to excellent reception, n indicates not received at all.

-------JVC-----LG
02----poor----better
04-----X--------X
05-----X--------X
07-----X--------X
09-----X--------X
11----poor------n
13-----X--------X
14-----X--------X
20-----X--------X
22-----X--------X
24----poor----poor
26-----X--------X
32-----X--------X
45-----X--------X
50-----X--------X
54----poor------X
56-----X--------X
66-----X--------X

04-1---X--------X
04-2---X--------X
05-1---X--------X
07-1---X--------X
07-2---X--------X
09-1---X--------X
09-2---X--------X
14-1---X--------X
26-1---X--------X
26-2---X--------X
26-3---X--------X
26-4---X--------X
30-1---n--------X
30-2---n--------X
30-3---n--------X
30-4---n--------X
50-1---X--------X
57-1---n--------X--dupes30-1
57-2---n--------X--dupes30-2
57-3---n--------X--dupes30-3
57-4---n--------X--dupes30-4-banner screen
66-1---n--------X--black screen
66-2---n--------X
66-3---n--------X
66-4---n--------X
66-5---n--------X

videobruce

06-28-05, 07:27 AM

Under the heading of "more than you wanted to know" NO, it should be under; What you really need to know...............

Interesting, but surely not good news (for JVC). Now what we need is a LG vs something else comparison.

It is apparent the mid to upper U's are a real problem.

Kid Red

06-28-05, 09:00 AM

Amen Brother! :)

It is wishful thinking to expect any TV manufactured today to last more than a year without needing some kind of maintenance, major repair, or replacement!

This is the unfortunate reality we live in.

I'm currently using a Pioneer rear projection CRT that was manufactured in 1991, and it still works! The CRT's need replacing, but after 14 years of service.

The only major repair was a faulty power supply midway through the 14 year cycle. That service cost a whopping $500, and that was the only expense! (Outside of cable and elec).

Now that I have had the experience of trying to, so called "upgrade" ( Two consecutive JVC D-ila's, last summer), I can safely say that I would be lucky to get much past the warranty period without needing some type of major repair or replacement, that's providing it even works right out of the box! ( My two JVC's didn't).

And guess what? after dealing with the two month headache of the, so called "upgrade", I understand exactly what you mean when you imply that CRT's over the long haul, are far less trouble, and I agree. :)

You guy's can yell about all the short-comings of CRT all you want...after 14 years, I have yet to see a burned-in image :) , and this new micro display technology has the painful potential to become a money-pit!

You must not watch an HD or 16:9 movies. Watch those for 1-2 years and get back to us. That's why CRTs are ancient, watch 'today's' material and your CRT will show it's age after a while. Watching 4:3 material won't be a big of factor causing burn in, it's when you watch 'current' DVDs or HD content with black bars. Oh wait. A 14 yr old CRT won't even display HD content will it, glad I have such a potential money pit to enjoy HD ;)

Johnla

06-28-05, 10:34 AM

You must not watch an HD or 16:9 movies. Watch those for 1-2 years and get back to us. That's why CRTs are ancient, watch 'today's' material and your CRT will show it's age after a while. Watching 4:3 material won't be a big of factor causing burn in, it's when you watch 'current' DVDs or HD content with black bars.

Unless you always have the exact same size "black bars" on, in the exactly the same place, and for every time you use the set. Then it's not so much the black bars that create burn in problems. And yes I have a Pioneer Elite 520HDpro CRT that IS a HD set, and I DO watch plenty of 16x9 DVD's and HD material that have black bars in various sizes, and in well over the "1-2 years" that you mentioned when to come back, I have absolutely no burn in issues what so ever with it. As long as a CRT set is not constantly fed with just one type of of the same type same size of problem causing signal over and over again, such as just one size of black bars that are always in the same place, or always in the same place station logos or game scores/menus. Then burn in is not the real problem that many of the "naysayers" try to make it out to be.

MoPro

06-28-05, 12:45 PM

You must not watch an HD or 16:9 movies. Watch those for 1-2 years and get back to us. That's why CRTs are ancient, watch 'today's' material and your CRT will show it's age after a while. Watching 4:3 material won't be a big of factor causing burn in, it's when you watch 'current' DVDs or HD content with black bars. Oh wait. A 14 yr old CRT won't even display HD content will it, glad I have such a potential money pit to enjoy HD ;)

Wow! I think you missed the point. You don't have to have an HD capable TV to be exposed to wide screen material, and I do own a DVD player! (apparently only to watch recordings of reruns of Gilligans Island... I like to rewind/play the good parts.) :D

Just because CRT has the potential for burn-in, doesn't mean it will! I believe it has more to do with a sharp contrast setting combined with a static image, over a certain period of time.

I'm very glad you're happy with your potential money pit, at least you admit it! :D

Why don't you get back to us in a couple of years, and let us know just how much your investment really cost! :)

gobigreen

06-28-05, 01:14 PM

Kid Red

06-28-05, 01:33 PM

Wow! I think you missed the point. You don't have to have an HD capable TV to be exposed to wide screen material, and I do own a DVD player! (apparently only to watch recordings of reruns of Gilligans Island... I like to rewind/play the good parts.) :D

Just because CRT has the potential for burn-in, doesn't mean it will! I believe it has more to do with a sharp contrast setting combined with a static image, over a certain period of time.

I'm very glad you're happy with your potential money pit, at least you admit it! :D

Why don't you get back to us in a couple of years, and let us know just how much your investment really cost! :)

No, you missed the point, twice now. Because you don't have HD, you aren't watching 16:9 material constantly on your 4:3 screen which would place the black bars on the top and bottom. That combined with frequent viewing of DVDs would fall in line to cause burn in from the constant black bars created from HD and DVD viewing on a 4:3 CRT.

I admit that you called it a money pit and I sarcastically repeated your comment in jest. I can hook up a DVI/HDMI DVD player, PS3, DVR, etc, and you can't. My tv is 16:9 so my DVD and HD viewing is larger. My TV weighs 80lbs, doesn't suffer burn in, has no convergance/cleaning needs as an old CRT would.

Yes, I will gladly compare enjoyment, PQ, connected equipment using a higher standard connection, and awesome 100+ HD channel selection by then and my HD-DVD/BRDs thru HDMI connections :)

As far as what this investment would cost, ah nothing. Where are the costs other then a replaceable bulb because I can watch my TV during the day with the windows open and lights on? Why don't you watch 16:9 DVDs for a year and get back us :)

DIGITAL HAZE

06-28-05, 05:05 PM

If you are replacing a bulb a year, it sounds like you're in commercial service, running over 16 hours a day. For 5 hours a day, the bulb lasts on average well over 3 years. New bulb, as good and as bright as new. The industry considers that direct view CRTs lose half their brightness over 5-7 years (although I don't believe that has been my experience). CRTs, especially CRT RPTVs, should be periodically calibrated and cleaned, as they age more than other technologies and the high voltages attract dust. CRT RPTVs such as yours will not have as long a lifespan (tubes/guns are driven hard and age rapidly) as the microdisplays- and of course, you're stepping up from 40 inches and into a much brighter set.

The CRT RPTV is dead in the market, and despite the conspiracy theories, it's dead because people want something else. Look how few are for sale today, and how many fewer will be available next year. If that's what you want, fine- buy it. But it's only cheaper up front. Microdisplays have much longer potential lifespans- bulbs are much cheaper than CRT tubes. I expect bulb prices to remain high for the next 5 years or so. Maybe they'll go down in price around then, as production ramps up. Frankly, I expect within 10 years we'll probably all have moved on to new display technologies not even sold today.

Good points you made about the downfalls of CRT RPTV. I am somewhat squeezed for space myself, and for me that fact that most of those TVs have solid bottoms did them in for me. I like my JVC sitting on top of a Sanus stand with 3 racks to place my DVD, games, ect. on. If I had a CRT RPTV, I'd have to make more room for an additional rack to stand beside it. Also, 84 pounds is awefully nice when you have to move the thing! I have nothing against the CRT RPTV on a technical level, I would have been happy with the picture. It's just that I don't have the space. (with my setup I'm having my 52" cake, but not having to sacrifice having my big speakers next to my TV either. :) )

The good news for me is...(my 52Z575 DILA has a black spot in the picture) that the place where I bought it can't get anymore of them, so they are letting me keep it until the new model arrives in early August!! I'll get either a 52 or 56G886. :)

MoPro

06-28-05, 05:09 PM

Am I missing something here? I have a 70g886 and it comes with a 1 year manufacturers warranty plus I got the extended warranty that lasts 4 more years after that. Also, the extended warranty covers 1 bulb replacement. So it seems to me that I will not have to spend one dime on this thing for at least four years (assuming bulbs last 2 years). How is this a potential money pit?

How much did you say you paid for that extended warranty?

How many bulbs will you have to go through, until you break even?

That free bulb you are going to get with your extended warranty... HELLO, you already paid for it. :p

I hope you never have to use your extended warranty, but the odds these days suggest that you will, and that is not a personal assault, but an observation that things are not built like they use to be, which was my initial point. :)

Unfortunately some people do view a difference of opinion, as a personal assault. I can't do anything about that other than to say "Good Luck", and I hope you never have to use your extended warranty either. :p

Oh yea! Replaced any light engines recently?

How about a filter mod...did you know that can void your warranty? :rolleyes:

Just an observation. :D

Atrayu

06-28-05, 11:51 PM

...so they are letting me keep it until the new model arrives in early August!! I'll get either a 52 or 56G886. :)

I'm with you DIGITAL H-the new models are the way to go. I've been looking at so many other TV's and I can't help but keep looking back at the DILA's, they still hold my attention more....61Z886 here I come! If they don't cut the price down enough for the 4th of July, then I am deffenitly going to get it on Black Friday!

WOOT WOOT :p

Kid Red

06-29-05, 09:47 AM

How much did you say you paid for that extended warranty?

How many bulbs will you have to go through, until you break even?

That free bulb you are going to get with your extended warranty... HELLO, you already paid for it.

I hope you never have to use your extended warranty, but the odds these days suggest that you will, and that is not a personal assault, but an observation that things are not built like they use to be, which was my initial point. :)

Unfortunately some people do view a difference of opinion, as a personal assault. I can't do anything about that other than to say "Good Luck", and I hope you never have to use your extended warranty either.

Oh yea! Replaced any light engines recently?

How about a filter mod...did you know that can void your warranty? :rolleyes:

Just an observation. :D

Still on the same bulb- 4 months 6-10 hours a day

I cancelled my extended warranty because there isn't much that can go wrong with the set other then the bulb after 1 year has passed.

JVC has replaced 3 light engines, and I will be getting the new model as an option rather then having another light engine replaced. Not sure you point, not all light engines need to be replaced and it doesn't cost me but 45 minutes of watching the tech switch it out. :p

Yes I have the filter mod. Since you're trying to be slick- I can take the filter out in about 15 minutes and there will be no evidence that the mod ever happened. So, it won't void any warranty :rolleyes:

Hows' that 300lb beuhemuth grumbling in the conrer?

Enjoying that breath taking crystal clear HD experience? :p

Glad you have a digital connection for that sweet new DVD, DVR player? :p

Inviting the fellows over Sundays at 1:pm with the overly sunny windows open and try to watch the game? In, oh yea, HD? :p

Worship your dinosaur, most cavemen do :D

gobigreen

06-29-05, 12:40 PM

How much did you say you paid for that extended warranty?

How many bulbs will you have to go through, until you break even?

That free bulb you are going to get with your extended warranty... HELLO, you already paid for it. :p

I hope you never have to use your extended warranty, but the odds these days suggest that you will, and that is not a personal assault, but an observation that things are not built like they use to be, which was my initial point. :)

Unfortunately some people do view a difference of opinion, as a personal assault. I can't do anything about that other than to say "Good Luck", and I hope you never have to use your extended warranty either. :p

Oh yea! Replaced any light engines recently?

How about a filter mod...did you know that can void your warranty? :rolleyes:

Just an observation. :D

The extended warranty was less than the cost of 1 bulb replacement (under $200) so it will more than pay for itself. And yes, I realize I have already paid for this. I am not saying the up front cost of these televisions is not significant. However, a "money pit" implies something that is financially draining due to maintainance etc. and I don't think that applies here. To be clear, I am not taking any opinions or observations as personal assaults. I have no personal stake in this discussion. I was just making an observation based on your comments.

So far I have had no problems. Hopefully it will stay that way. If not, I am not going to get bent out of shape over it - it is still just a TV - and it will not cost me any additional money.

MoPro

06-29-05, 07:28 PM

Worship your dinosaur, most cavemen do :D

Are you talkin to me!

Are you talkin TO ME!! :D

Now,now... It's not politically correct to criticize cavemen, you should know from our TV commercials that we can be quite temperamental! :D

On the other hand, I never said that CRT's were better than the new technology, or that micro display technology wasn't a good thing, just that the old tech was less trouble!

As far as all the bells and whistles you cite, some of them work and some of them don't!... Why?

Come-on man, do you think it's normal to have to replace a light engine three times? I mean, you say it like everyone should look forward to it!

We spent twice as much for this TV, as I paid for the CRT ... Shouldn't we all have the reasonable expectation that they work trouble-free?

Please, don't forget the fact that I owned two of these things, and their performance in both cases were less than stellar!

I'm also no stranger to how this stuff is supposed to work!

I'm all for technological advancement, but when you cut to many corners, it can be a huge headache, and in some cases deadly...Just ask the families of the astronauts that died in the Space Shuttle disasters! :mad:

Before you try and blast me for comparing a TV to the Space Shuttle, Remember that these TV's were recalled because of the possibility that faulty wiring could overheat and start a fire!

Fire is fire in my book, and can be every bit devastating in both cases.

I'll say it again! I'm glad you are happy with your TV, and I hope you never have a need for the extended warranty, but some of us expect more for our money, and are not afraid to express our opinion! :)

videobruce

06-30-05, 09:32 AM

I'm very glad you're happy with your potential money pit, at least you admit it! Why don't you get back to us in a couple of years, and let us know just how much your investment really cost! You should read your own 'sig'. It isn't consistent with that out of line comment!

If you want to TRY to watch 16x9 material on a direct view CRT go right ahead. What type of binoculars do you use?

MoPro

06-30-05, 09:46 AM

You should read your own 'sig'. It isn't consistent with that out of line comment!

If you want to TRY to watch 16x9 material on a direct view CRT go right ahead. What type of binoculars do you use?

I don't understand your comment, please be more specific. :)

videobruce

06-30-05, 10:11 AM

"New" Isn't always better, but you'll never know unless you give it a try!Then you talk about a "money pit".

MoPro

06-30-05, 12:26 PM

Then you talk about a "money pit".

What I said was that micro display technology has the "potential" to become a money pit! I was referencing the fact that the micro display technology requires periodic bulb replacement , and seem to have a higher frequency of break-downs/repairs that can be expensive over the long haul.

If that were not true, then so many people would not be buying extended service plans with the idea that it is such a necessity that they just factor it into the cost of the TV.

The big thing retailers are trying to sell now are UPS's, just in case your power goes off, it will not interrupt the bulb cooling cycle, which could shorten the life of the bulb.

Normally I would lean toward caution and buy one just to be safe, but then I realized that the retailer is trying to sell me a new type of TV that has more periodic maintenance than CRT technology, then trying to alleviate my worries by selling me an extended service plan, and now wants to sell me a UPS, no doubt to cut down on the company having to replace so many bulbs through the extended service plan, thereby making the extended service plans more of a profit for the company.

How many times do I shoot myself in the foot before I realize it hurts? :eek:

I don't believe I'm at odds with my sig. And I don't think I am exaggerating any of my points, though I have been a little sarcastic at times.

I do believe that you should give new technology a chance before you question it's validity, I also believe that I have been trying to do that. :)

I still look forward to a time when we can embrace the new technology without the discomfort of the growing pains of profit interfering with the engineering process. :cool:

Idealistic, maybe...out of line?

Not at all! :)

Joe Hendrix

06-30-05, 02:52 PM

DIGITAL HAZE

06-30-05, 08:44 PM

Let's get back on track... When are those 52" displays coming out!!! I thought they were suppose to be on the shelves by the end of June. Guess what? It's the end of June, and I haven't seen one yet. I wonder what the holdup is? Are they just going to skip the 52" and 56" release of the 720p and go straight for the 1080p release?

Also, anyone have an idea of what the cost difference will be between the 720p and the 1080p? Will the increase in picture quality be worth the wait, and the cost difference?
I am returning my current model to Sears because of black pixels. They said they couldn't find another 52Z575.....so they said to me I can keep it until early August when the new models are suppossed to arrive. Hope that helps. :D

chipvideo

07-01-05, 09:52 AM

I"m having some strange issues with my 61Z786 since I hooked up a dvd player with upconversion hooked up with a hdmi cable directly to the tv. It also says hdmi audio not supported everytime I even just stop it and restart the movie. Very anoying.

Every once in a while I get a green screen and snow and then it comes back. It doesnt happen very much or often, but it can sure be a pain in the arse.

I also have a question about the dvd player. It has options to change from rgb normal to rgb extended and it has the option of 4:2:2 and something else. What is the best setting. I have it set for 720P.

Could their possibly be issues with the dvd player compatibility with my jvc set? Seesm as though others say the same thing. I got the samsung dvd player. Maybe the LG is better. Also using the supplied hdmi cable. Should I also get a better cable? Or does it make no difference since it is a direct digital feed anyhow.

intexltd

07-01-05, 02:42 PM

I am new to this thread, I was first interested in a Samsung or Mits 71" DLP, but my custom installer gets a much better deal on JVC, plus we have purchased a Faroudja DiLa projector that uses the JVC 3 chip DiLa engine, and it is extremely good.

My question: How does the new 1080P HD70G886 stack up in comparison to the samsung or Mits 1080p DLP's. Are there any issues I should investigate. My Pioneer went dead last month and I need one YESTERDAY.

I am most intereseted in sharpness and brightness, did not like the new TI "wobbulated" chip.

Your replies greatly appreciated.

hifiaudio2

07-01-05, 03:17 PM

Sorry as I am sure this has been covered in this thread somewhere, but what is the latest on the best method to get a 1280 x 720 signal into this tv through HTPC? Does the HDMI input work well for this?

intexltd

07-01-05, 04:12 PM

I think my installer was mis-informed, the HD-70G886 looks like a 720p set, not the 1080p set. When are the 1080p sets coming out? and is there any info on them?

navychop

07-01-05, 05:22 PM

The G series is 720. The FH series is 1080 and is due out late Fall.

People that saw the JVC 1080s at the January CES were very impressed. And that's about all the info available, except for the original press release. (http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=445)

dkennedy

07-02-05, 08:45 AM

hifiaudio2

07-03-05, 08:14 AM

Is there a code for this set to change inputs directly?

chipvideo

07-06-05, 09:47 AM

Anyone else have any pixle issues. On a black screen I have a blue dot in the left upper quadrant. I only notice it on a black screen if I am within a couple feet or less. What the heck I thought that these sets didn't have any dead pixles?

Kid Red

07-06-05, 12:04 PM

Chip- if you just got the set, I would return it. Dead pixels can't be fixed and you'd need quite a few to warrant a return or fix under warranty. I'd get a new set.

RonC

07-06-05, 05:57 PM

Just got my 61Z786 last weekend and thought I'd relay my opinion on my first non-direct view TV. This may get long-winded; so you've been warned. ;)

First of all this thing is big! It's in our family room which has a rather long viewing distance of 16+ feet. (Our 35-inch direct view CRT looked mighty small at that distance, especially with a letterboxed image from DVD.) The 61 incher looks plenty big from that distance.

Second, the "Wow" factor for picture quality ranges all the way from "That's pretty $hitty", to "That's not too bad", to "That's pretty damn good", to "That's totally Awesome!" Those opinions relate directly to viewing a) Analog cable, b)SD digital cable, 3) DVD (at 480i), and 4)HD cable.

I was totally underwhelmed with the PQ on analog and some of the SD digital channels via Cox STB (Scientific Atlanta brand) plugged into the NTSC input. My first thought was "Uh-Oh, this may be a mistake!" PQ was awful. Blurry and grainy and other artifacts that I never noticed on direct view CRTs. Those that I had seen on direct-view CRTs were accentuated on the 61-incher.

Even tho' I expected a not-so-good image due to screen size, it really surprised me, and I was disappointed, for sure. WAF was pretty low at that point, too. :(

After doing some channel surfing, I noticed the PQ was highly sensitive to what channel. As you can expect, some were better than others. Hooking up the STB's component inputs was a little better, but still disappointing.

I hooked up the DVD on composite (yes, composite) and was pleasantly surprised by the really good PQ, which I thought was better than my old TV's, primarily since it was just as clear, but much bigger. WAF came up a couple of notches.

(To this point, I still hadn't changed anything but brightness level since it was way to bright OTB.)

Next, I tuned in to HD channels thru the STB and stuttered, "That's absolutely stunning!" WAF was at "Alllll---Right!!!" Leave it to high def to knock your socks off. :D

Third, changing over the STB and DVD player to component definitely gives a better picture. I changed the DVD from 480i to 480p and was somewhat surprised that I liked the PQ better on 480i. Guess that means the TV did a better job of scaling than the Samsung 941 DVD player? (I still haven't tried out hooking up the DVD thru HDMI and doing upconverting to 720. Maybe tonight.)

Fourth, I thought I'd try to see if I had a low signal level for the analog channels. I wired our house myself and used a 2-way splitter to separate the computer's cable modem feed from all the TV outlet's. Currently I'm running a 6-way splitter for the TV feeds. Now everything I know says that the signal strength should be toast after those splits, but I honestly didn't see much degradation at all on any of those TVs. OK, maybe a little, but not anything close to "I've GOT to fix that!"

So, I just happened to have an 11dB RF amp lying around and decided to hook it in between the first 2-way splitter and the 6-way. Man, I just couldn't wait to turn on the new TV after that! Well, surprise!! I didn't see a big difference like I thought I would in the analog channels. Maybe the amp doesn't work (it did at our old house ;) ). Maybe I didn't hook it up correctly, (and if I didn't then I didn't learn much with my college engineering degree.) I'll no doubt double check tonight.

As for other things:

A. As others have said, the remote and menuing are pretty crude. I played around quite a bit with picture adjustments and wasn't getting much satisfaction til I turned off all the dynamic gamma, color managment, and smart picture controls. One thing seemed to be prevalent was the picture was very bright on most inputs and I turned it way down to -25 or so in most cases to get a good level. I was able to get satisfactory adjustments for all inputs [TV, Input 1(STB on component), input 2(DVD on component)]. The DVD I used was "National Treasure".

Now last night I put the "Aliens" DVD in and had a hell of a time getting brightness and contrast to where I was satisfied. I never did reach an "acceptable" situation. Seems like I had to choose between some crushed blacks or overall "washed out" [my term] look. I'll have to try another dark movie like LOTR and experiment more.

B. Oh yes, earlier in the thread someone mentioned uniform blackness problems with previous models (xxZ575s etc.). I didn't notice anything non-uniform about black skys with stars or daylight blue sky. As a matter of fact, I didn't see any color "blotching" or "fading".

C. Unfortunately, I did see color separation. At first I thought, "Oh No, it's that damn chromatic aberration" that was attributed to earlier models. CLoser inspection leads me to believe that it's more a convergence problem. I have one pixel column of green on the right hand side next to a pillar bar. And the misconvergence seems to be worse on the right side of the screen. I couldn't make out any on the left hand side. Well, I've added convergence adjustment to my mental notes and will do so probably next weekend.

D. The TV case itself is very attractive and is a pleasure to look at. (Not at all like that Sony XS955 that looks like it came from an episode of "The Jetsons", if you're old enough to remember that 70's show. Shame because I like the PQ of that TV too!)

E. One last thing. These digital microdisplay RPTVs are a joy to move around compared to the 35" CRT, not to mention the behemoth CRT RPTVs. A hundred pounds!!!--No Problem!!! Those other types made me whimper every time I ever thought about having to move one.

Hope this diatribe helps someone,

Ron

RonC

07-06-05, 06:06 PM

Can someone give me a lead on how to purchase the Service Manual for the 61Z786? I've been to the JVC site, but wasn't able to find it. (I will call them if no one can help.)

From reading this looonnng thread, I've gleaned the basics on how to get into the service mode and do convergence adjustments, but it would be nice to have the manual at hand.

Thanks,
Ron

kmfdm515

07-06-05, 06:54 PM

Three questions for those 'in-the-know' with these JVC sets...here goes:

1) What exactly is 'GENESSA' processing? Do only the 70G886 and 61Z886/76 sets have it? Does it make a difference?

2) Also, are there any differences between the 70G886 and the 61Z886 besides (obviously) the size?

3) I'm hoping to purchase a 70G886 this fall...will there be any other comparable 70" 720p LCOS sets?

BarkingArt

07-06-05, 08:03 PM

The Jetsons is a 1960's show.

RowdyUSP40

07-07-05, 12:01 AM

The Jetsons is a 1960's show.

Yeah came out late 62.... and RonC thought he was showing his age... :D :D

Good job on the post RonC. :)

chipvideo

07-07-05, 10:37 AM

Chip- if you just got the set, I would return it. Dead pixels can't be fixed and you'd need quite a few to warrant a return or fix under warranty. I'd get a new set.

I also noticed a green one in the lower left quadrant. They are only visible on a jet black screen when your about 2 feet from the screen. I dont even notice it when I watch tv at all. I am wondering if I should just deal with it since it is only visible if your looking for it way up close on black screen. I could just amagine sending it back and getting another one with other issues. The set seems to work great.

When I did the adjustments using the dvd you guys suggested I noticed that on the sharpness part of the adjustment I never noticed any change. Could the set be compensating while using that adjustment or is it because I was hooked up with a hdmi inputs?

videobruce

07-07-05, 12:00 PM

Not at all like that Sony XS955 that looks like it came from an episode of "The Jetsons"It's a Phony...........Can someone give me a lead on how to purchase the Service Manual for the 61Z786?AFAIK, it's not out yet, but try either Tritronics or Herman Electronics.I put the "Aliens" DVD in and had a hell of a time getting brightness and contrast to where I was satisfied. I never did reach an "acceptable" situation. Seems like I had to choose between some crushed blacks or overall "washed out" [my term] look.That's the main issue with these sets.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=547602 did see color separation. At first I thought, "Oh No, it's that damn chromatic aberration" that was attributed to earlier models. CLoser inspection leads me to believe that it's more a convergence problem.Was it more like this;
dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Optical/Chromatic_Aberrations_01.htm

Kid Red

07-07-05, 12:34 PM

I also noticed a green one in the lower left quadrant. They are only visible on a jet black screen when your about 2 feet from the screen. I dont even notice it when I watch tv at all. I am wondering if I should just deal with it since it is only visible if your looking for it way up close on black screen. I could just amagine sending it back and getting another one with other issues. The set seems to work great.

When I did the adjustments using the dvd you guys suggested I noticed that on the sharpness part of the adjustment I never noticed any change. Could the set be compensating while using that adjustment or is it because I was hooked up with a hdmi inputs?

Lower green color fringing is unacceptable by JVC's standards and I would return the set for another one. The sharpness doesn't seem to do anything unless it's set too high.

RonC

07-07-05, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by RonC:
Unfortunately, I did see color separation. At first I thought, "Oh No, it's that damn chromatic aberration" that was attributed to earlier models. CLoser inspection leads me to believe that it's more a convergence problem. I have one pixel column of green on the right hand side next to a pillar bar. And the misconvergence seems to be worse on the right side of the screen. I couldn't make out any on the left hand side.

Originally Posted by Videobruce:
Was it more like this;
{{I can't post a link yet, so its deleted.}}

Videobruce:
Your link didn't work to the CA, but I managed to get there anyway.

I do see some color fringing, but not quite like the website showed. It is most prevalent on the right side of the screen with some visible in the center of the screen. Also, I don't notice that the color fringes are symmetrical around some point. (Its my understanding that lens-induced CA would always show one color towards, and the other color away from, a symmetry point. True?)

I also noticed last night that flesh tones are hard to get "right" since faces tend to show a pink cast to bright parts of a face, and a green cast to the darker areas. Consequently, the faces never do look "right" to me.

I still haven't done the convergence, so I'll see how it looks then.

RowdyUSP40:
You're right, as old as I know I'm getting, there's always someone... ;)

Ron

JoeBloggz

07-08-05, 02:42 AM

I went out to Sears today and they had a 52" Z575 on display. Contrary to what I saw with the 70G886 a few days ago, this set look very good to me. I think the 70 had a bad feed and the store layout was too bright. With a little tweaking the 575 shined. It was in between a Mitsu DLP and Panny LCD. The JVC simply had a better overall picture, colors looked amazing, where the others, colors looked to "artificially enhanced"(not real). Its something about these JVC's that when I look at them, I say to myself, that's "REAL". The others look, for lack of a better word, surreal. I mean some of the other technology seems "too enhanced". I want detail, and sharpness, and uniformity, etc, but I also want as close a representation to actuality as there is. And I think thats, D-ILA/LCos.
The 52G786 is, hands down, my first choice. I'm thankful to be a member of this forum and the current JVC owners for their invaluable comments, information, and suggestions regarding these sets. Otherwise, I dont think I would have given JVC a chance. :D :D

JoeBloggz

07-08-05, 03:20 AM

Are there any JVC owners in the MA/RI area?? I am in the Providence area and it would be a great help to see one of these sets in a home environment with proper adjustment!

navychop

07-08-05, 11:22 AM

This press release (http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=445) discusses the different models. Basically, the 70" version includes a memory card reader.

RonC

07-08-05, 02:17 PM

Update: I tried convergence adjustments last night to see what effect it had on what I called a "misconvergence" in previous posts. I was able to access the service menu using the method identified for the xxZ575 models and could adjust convergence for the Red and Blue colors.

The adjustments allowed are Up/Down and Left/Right in one pixel increments. That's it! No adjustment for Green, and no adjustments smaller than one pixel.

What I found was that the Red color didn't line up with a pixel. That is, the edges of the red color bar bleeds into an adjacent pixel on one side and doesn't fill up the pixel on the other side. In effect, there is a 1/2 pixel offset of the red color compared to green and blue.

The result is that it was impossible to adjust convergence to where I have no color fringing on a white "cross" displayed at the center of the screen. There always a small amount. The red would swap sides, left to right, but never "blend."

Additionally, my earlier observation of color misconvergence being most prevalent on the right side of the screen was confirmed. I could adjust to make the right side of the screen better, but then the left side and center suffered. The least objectionable setting was the way it was OTB -- misconvergence mostly on the right side of the screen. So not only was red convergence offset 1/2 pixel. There isn't consistency from left to right across the screen! :eek:

To sum up, on this particular TV, I couldn't achieve "good enough" color convergence.

At the best compromise setting, I can see the separation of colors (while watching B&W or some Color Video) from my seating distance of 16 ft! So that sucks to say the least. :(

Sigh----Unless, somebody has some info on tweaks to cure this problem, either this set will go back to TV Authority, or JVC will be contacted for a fix under warranty.

My thanks to all others who've contributed to this thread. It has been a great help for first-time owners of big-screen digital TVs , and these JVC sets in particular.

Ron