==>>The Official JVC - DILA - Z/Gx86 Owners Thread<<== [Text View]

ocxplant

04-09-05, 11:19 AM

OK all...got it up and running so it's time for a little review.......

First off, this TV is absolutely stunning in my living room! Now, I have only had about an hour or two of uninterrupted veiwing/tweaking/playing time because of my work schedule and have not had time to properly calibrate it with AVIA yet, but here is what I can tell you so far:

PRO's-

1) design of the cabinet itself is to me awesome looking (almost ALL screen with thin bezel and base)

2) warm up time seems to be shorter then stated in the manual (all of about 15-20 seconds for nice bright picture)

3) Can lower or completely turn OFF the blue power light at the bottom (great for dark room DVD watching!)

4) Side bars are BLACK not gray if you so choose to watch SD in normal mode

5) why watch it in normal mode...the stretch modes are done VERY well and you can barely tell that its stretched at all!

6) SD looks very decent if you are back enough from the TV anyway (I would not recommend sitting too close as you will see a sort of grainy gelatin type of pixelation [for lack of a better description] on SD and low quality broadcasts

7) When watching a DVD with the theater pro mode on it looks absolutely wonderful as it tones down the artificial brightness and vibrantness. If you have the room dark on this mode with a DVD playing I swear it looks the closest to FILM that I have ever seen on a consumer grade set. And mind you this is BEFORE calibration!

8) The dynamic gamma does a great job producing dark blacks from what I have seen so far.

Now some CONs I have noticed -

1) When watching SD broadcasts (from my cable at least) there is some of the grainy gelatin looking pixelation [if someone has a better term for this let me know lol] as the scenes pan around.

2) The fan noise is noticable if you have the sound very low or off, not a biggie for me but if you have it set-up in a small room it may be an issue for you.

3) Other than the theater mode, it is a bright set...I happen to like this quality but I have read some complain that this is a negative for them so I'll note it here.

That's about all I can think of at the moment and as I am stuck at work all day again today I can't play with it more until tonight. If you guys have any questions about things I didn't mention post them here and I'll answer the best I can with the limited experience I have with the set so far.

Also, I have to thank everyone here for all the information about various sets and technologies out there so that I could make such an informed purchase! I have absolutely no buyers remorse and am very happy with my decision to purchase this set over a DLP or other type. On a side note the WAF for me was extremely high (YMMV). My wife (who by the way cares nothing about electronics except the price) said WOW when she saw me turn it on for the first time, and actually said good job honey it looks perfect I can even see the details now (She wears glasses). ;)

Anyway, for those who have already ordered their's don't worry about your purchase...I believe you WILL BE HAPPY!

P.S. I did take some pics, but had no time to post them, hopefully I will do it tonight so you all can have a look.

Take care all,

ocxplant :)

swenjj

04-09-05, 11:33 AM

about how far away is your viewing distance? mine will be about ten feet, i wonder if i will have to make some room to extend that some,and will you be trying a gaming system on it at all? did you get to watch any HD shows? and have you owned other hd tvs if so how does this compare to them?

ocxplant

04-09-05, 11:42 AM

First off before replies I have the 61" set so we are on the same page:

"about how far away is your viewing distance?"

My sitting area is about 15 feet (edited due to over-estimation)

"and will you be trying a gaming system on it at all?"

I will eventually but not in the near enough future to post anything about it :(

"did you get to watch any HD shows?"

Yes, I watched a little bit of discoveryHD and KCETHD, and it looks very good, but still exhibited the pixelation a bit when you get right up to the screen..which to me is not an issue since I don't plan on watching the set from 2 feet away. This does bring up a point about gaming on it though if you like to game right up to the set. Bear in mind though that I am using component cable from my HD cable box not DVI/HDMI yet so this may improve. Also, it is not calibrated yet so this pixelation up close should get even better.

"and have you owned other hd tvs if so how does this compare to them?"

Yes, the set this is replacing was about a 3 year old Toshiba 40" widescreen, model 40H80. I know this is not the greatest set ever made, but until I saw this one I thought it looked damn good in HD.

Hope that helps some ;)

ocxplant

empire_of_one

04-09-05, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by ocxplant

1) When watching SD broadcasts (from my cable at least) there is some of the grainy gelatin looking pixelation [if someone has a better term for this let me know lol] as the scenes pan around.

Is this the same "swirly" effect that was reported on the last model? Or do you mean SSE? Have you tried turning off the noise reduction and other digital processing? Those kinds of processing often cause pixelation and other artifacts.

ocxplant

04-09-05, 12:43 PM

I would say it is the 'swirly' effect not SSE. But again this is only if I am very close to the screen (Too close to be able to watch anything on it).

I have not had a chance to mess with the digital noise correction etc. yet but I will tonight.

ocxplant

Tom_Bombadil

04-09-05, 02:31 PM

25' viewing distance!!!

Looks like the majority of us will need a second opinion on the image quality.

How's about what it looks like from 10' (which is 2X the diagonal)?

ocxplant

04-09-05, 02:54 PM

Hey Tom :)

I just called home and had my wife get out the tape measure..lol..you got me thinkin'

Anyway, I actually have about a 15' viewing distance (Guess I over-estimated the size of the room).

So, all of my comments are based on a viewing distance of 15' sorry ;)

ocxplant

Stan54

04-09-05, 04:32 PM

Something tell me that when you are done measuring, you will find that the distance from your eyeballs to the screen is more like 13 or 14 feet.

By the way, OCX, can't you take a little vacation time from work to satisfy our curiosity. Remember, all work and no play make OCX late to report.

Seriously, I hope your report continues to be good because this set holds out lots of promise.

empire_of_one

04-09-05, 07:46 PM

One more reason why more companies need to sponsor a "Take your TV to work" day.

Kid Red

04-09-05, 07:47 PM

ocxplant- CA, 'Color Abberation' is it there? Look at white text, or any text for that matter. Do you see a green pixel on one side and a purple pixel outline on the other side of each letter?

As for the 'swirling' effect, do me a favor and turn OFF Natural Cinema just to see if that does anything. And with the old sets, Gamma OFF always produced the best calibrated picture.

Jaa-Yoo

04-09-05, 10:06 PM

Hows the overscan on these sets? I have a 52Z575 and for the most part the 5% overscan doesnt bother me. But when i use full mode to fill the screen with 16:9 material, i know exactly what im missing and that total 10% is just too much.

hifiaudio2

04-09-05, 10:34 PM

Mine is supposed to be delivered tomorrow (Sunday) from HH Gregg. I will try to post some quick thoughts then. I tested it with Matrix II in store and was impressed. I am moving to this set from a Sony HS20 (which I now have to sell) and the subjective black level looked much better. I didnt know what many of the features did, so I just went in and turned off all processing and put the set on theater mode on the floor. I was very impressed sitting about 8 -10 feet away - no dancing pixels in faces at all - I see this all the time in any lcd. Truly, it looked like a DLP in terms of smoothness but without rainbows which I have seen on every DLP i have viewed.

I am really hoping that the PC input allows me to hook up an HTPC. I am going to be dissapointed if I cannot post process dvds with an HTPC and send it to this tv....

navychop

04-09-05, 10:36 PM

What other possible use could there be for the VGA in?

Luffy

04-10-05, 12:03 AM

I read the manual for the 61 (I am kind of assuming most of the functionality will be the same with the 52 version), and I am kind of concerned that the VGA input only supports 1024x768. Does anyone know if it will do 1280x720? I was kind wanting to use the vga in for my HTPC and that is at the moment setup for 1920x1080i via a vga->component converter. I was hoping that the JVC would eliminate the need for that converter with the VGA input but if it only supports 640x480 and 1024x768 that would really makes the input useless for me :(.

hifiaudio2

04-10-05, 09:49 AM

I havent found any useful specs on the vga input.

hifiaudio2

04-10-05, 12:24 PM

Well I just got the unit and opened it up. Picture is a great improvement on the HS20, which I already liked. Terrific color, nice black level. There is a "slight" color convergence issue, but very small and toward the sides.

THe manual does state 640 x 580 or 1024 x 768 for the pc input.

Hopefully a firmware update can allow it to take the native res.

navychop

04-10-05, 01:08 PM

When I get mine, I'll hook up a laptop to the VGA connector and see what kind of picture it produces. Maybe do a little surfing and see what that's like. I expect 1024x768 with the TV set to 4x3 will give good results. I'll report and maybe post a few pics.

Vikingmd

04-10-05, 01:18 PM

I'm pretty interested in this set, although I may wait for the 1080p sets. The two questions which I'm most interested in, because they are current issues, are:

1) Is there chromatic aberration ( no amount of tweaking or filters will eliminate this)

2) Are the colors uniform (same as above and this requires a new light engine)

dhauser

04-10-05, 01:25 PM

This may be a dumb squestion but are the models reviewed here the same, or a newer version, of the HD-61Z575 that Costco is selling for $2,899? How does it differ and is it worth the extra price (whatever that is)? How can I find out how much more these are?

Also, are these noticeably better than say a Sony 60xs955 LCD or a Samsung 5674 DLP or is it just like the difference between the LCD and DLP where 50 guys will say the LCD is best and another 50 say the DLP is better.

To tie this into the thread so as not to offend anyone, I'd love to hear reviewer's comments on why it is better or worse than the other 2 technologies. I'm basically down to these three brands but know the least about the JVC.

Thanks
Dane

westa6969

04-10-05, 01:42 PM

dhauser -
These are the new 720P Models that have just shipped and waiting feedback reviews but so far we've had very little feedback from those lucky recipients. (The 1080P models ship in late fall) It is rare for Costco to ever have new product they usually sell generation back.

Some of the new models are on the Power Buy Section at the top of the forum

JVC HD61Z786 – 61” 720p DILA TV – black frame - tentatively due to ship by End of March / Early April

JVC HD61Z886 – 61” 720p DILA TV – silver frame – tentatively due to ship by End of March / Early April

JVC HD70G886 – 70” 720p DILA TV – tentatively due to ship by End of March / Early April

As to feedback we've had very little from our fellow members so far - they're either addicted to the new TV's or other problems have occurred. So far this thread has gotten large with about 98% containing no feedback whatsoever and I think we've been abandoned by the new owners with next to no review material, really very disaapointing of rehashing SOSO.

One can hope we can get someone to give a detailed review with a little Q&A?

Perhaps we need to take up a collection to ship a case of beer and pizza's to get full review sessions?

hifiaudio2

04-10-05, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Vikingmd
I'm pretty interested in this set, although I may wait for the 1080p sets. The two questions which I'm most interested in, because they are current issues, are:

1) Is there chromatic aberration ( no amount of tweaking or filters will eliminate this)

2) Are the colors uniform (same as above and this requires a new light engine)

I am not totally sure how to look for these items. I have the original video essentials dvd - is there a pattern on here that will help with the answer?

I do find the colors on the set to be very "correct" looking, as well as naturally saturated when set with VE.

I have it off right now awaiting someone to come over and help move my new stand into place and get the tv on it.

navychop

04-10-05, 02:30 PM

Might be a REAL interesting review after a case of beer....

navychop

04-10-05, 02:37 PM

hifiaudio2:

Try to put an image with white words or white areas on pause. Look at the left and right edges of the letters or white image. If you see a thin line of green on one side and magenta on the other, let us know. Try to count the pixel width of any such colored line. Is it only visible at 2 feet or can you see it at a normal viewing distance?

Also, put a solid color on display, if you can. Does the color maintain the same shade all across the screen? The opening black sky of Star Wars might be something to look at- is the black of space around the words consistent or do some areas look brighter or of a different shade?

And look at images with lots of blue sky- does the blue meld into different shades nicely or does it show visible banding of colors?

Vikingmd

04-10-05, 04:15 PM

Just to clarify a little.

"Look at the left and right edges of the letters or white image. If you see a thin line of green on one side and magenta on the other, let us know. Try to count the pixel width of any such colored line."

This is chromatic aberration. It is caused by poor optics in the light engine and was an issue with the older sets.

"Are the colors uniform?"

Some of the earlier JVC sets had a tendency to show a purplish or green hue in one corner. I'm not sure if this is associated with a technical term.

"does the blue meld into different shades nicely or does it show visible banding of colors?"

This is vertical banding. It is a common problem with LCDs and somewhat with LCOS.

navychop

04-10-05, 04:24 PM

blotching?

hifiaudio2

04-10-05, 08:03 PM

I believe I have observed the thin line of red as you near the left side of the screen, I had always considered this a slight misalignment of the panels. It is no more noticeable than it was on the hs20, and doesnt detract while watching movies. I will report back with how close I have to be to seriously notice it.

I will be watching it a lot tonight for the first time and should have a good report for you.

I will say this: nothing is perfect and I know this as well as anyone. I am a perpetual "sit on the fencer" - always waiting for the next big thing and rarely purchasing. I can say that I have no buyer's remorse at all on this set!

I do wish it had a dvi input as well, though - or at least 2 HDMI.

hifiaudio2

04-10-05, 08:22 PM

You people and your observations. I went and looked closely at the screen. It was on the discovery HD channel. This effect is pretty noticeable on the left side, with green being 3-4 pixles off, and red being about 3 off. If it is on one set, is it generally on them all, or would exchanging it and getting a new one be beneficial?

hsm3

04-10-05, 08:45 PM

hifiaudio2, to evaluate CA I recommend using a crosshatch test pattern, if you have one. I don't have DVE, but Avia has a grid pattern of widely spaced white lines on a black background. CA will show up as magenta or green fringing on the lines. I would expect a misalignment of the 3 devices to show similar fringing across the whole pattern. On the other hand, CA, which is an optical flaw, will get worse as you go farther from the center, and will be symmetric, meaning the green fringe will always be hanging off the side of the line towards the center.

If you're close to the set you can also see the effect on shots with white titles on dark backgrounds.

I'm interested to hear any results, because I had and returned a 52Z575, and the CA was a big reason. In practice, I would very rarely see the color fringing from a viewing distance of 10', but I felt that the focus of the image was bad ourside the center part of the screen, and it stands to reason that the CA was to blame. I saw varying degrees of CA in a least 5 different sets in the stores, so I didn't bother trying a second JVC (ended up with the Sony 55WF655). With the same pattern I could detect no CA on my Sony or a previous Mits DLP.

Note also that on the x75 sets you can adjust the alighment of the panels in whole pixel increments via the service menu. In case you run into this problem, you'd figure similiar adjustments would be available on the new sets.

hifiaudio2

04-10-05, 10:24 PM

A slightly unrelated question.

On the stand I have, I have two options for the center channel:

Put it on the second stand shelf, below the tv, where the drivers would be about 17" from the floor.

Or build a shelf atop the tv, where the drivers would be about 67" high. What is the better option?

A third would be to get a lower stand, and put it on top of the tv, but that requires returning what I have.

hifiaudio2

04-10-05, 10:26 PM

It is odd how the CA seems so different depending on what I am watching. Many shows done seem to show it at all, and the dvds i have watched dont seem bad, but discovery HD was pretty bad.

Watched Deadwood HD tonight, it sure seems VERY dark - I turned up the brightness a good bit to see any detail at all in dark scenes - this was unnecesarry even on Xmen dvd - other hd channels seem extremely bright when I changed to them.

Vikingmd

04-11-05, 12:06 AM

There are claims that using the center channel above the TV is better and less fatiguing. I'm not sure the reason for this. It does stand to reason in most shots, the actors heads are closer to the top of the screen and that dialog would most naturally come from this area. For a more definitive answer you could post the question in the Audio setup and Theory forum or search as I'm sure the question has been asked.

Brandon B

04-11-05, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by Vikingmd
Just to clarify a little.
"does the blue meld into different shades nicely or does it show visible banding of colors?"

This is vertical banding. It is a common problem with LCDs and somewhat with LCOS.

Vertical banding refers to slight differences in brightness in adjacent columns of pixels, caused by incorrect driving voltages. It has the appearance of a screen mesh where some of the wires are pushed closer to each other than others. It is most visible on fields of uniform light color and is fixed to a position on the screen.

Color banding is different and is usually a scaling or mpeg decoding artifact. I think Navychop may have meant that.

BB

tokerblue

04-11-05, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by hifiaudio2
A slightly unrelated question.

On the stand I have, I have two options for the center channel:

Put it on the second stand shelf, below the tv, where the drivers would be about 17" from the floor.

Or build a shelf atop the tv, where the drivers would be about 67" high. What is the better option?

A third would be to get a lower stand, and put it on top of the tv, but that requires returning what I have.
> This is the solution I used.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=484959&highlight=tokerblue

Updated.

donb1948

04-11-05, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by tokerblue
> This is the solution I used.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...light=tokerblue

Tokerblue... link seems to be broken.

kfeltes

04-11-05, 01:42 PM

All,

Two things I've noticed in my 5 days with the 61" 786:

1.) The JVC stand is not very useful as it only holds < 7" components. My B&K AVR-307 and HTPC don't fit.

2.) I haven't been able to get anything better than 1024x768 on the VGA input. The display is fixed and will "scroll" the window if you use a higher resolution. I've only tried VGA and S-video. I haven't tried DVI to HDMI nor VGA - to - component-in. I will be trying DVI 2 HDMI in the next few days. I have to figure something out as this is one of my major requirments for a display.

HistoneMaster

04-11-05, 02:09 PM

Which stand are you using, the old RK-CILA5S stand, the new (and so far unseen) RK-CILAM6 listed in the product brochure, or the one you can get with the powerbuy (not from JVC)?

Tom_Bombadil

04-11-05, 02:16 PM

If you mount a center channel to where the tweeters are above or below the height of your ears at the listening position, then you should angle the speaker so it can fire directly at your ears. Treble response from your center speaker will fall off if your ear is off-axis, this will be worse on some speakers than others.

kfeltes

04-11-05, 02:31 PM

HistoneMaster

04-11-05, 02:45 PM

Sorry to hear that. Maybe you'll want to check with JVC and see if the new stands they are making for the 786/886's will have more space between the shelves.

Stan54

04-11-05, 03:22 PM

Just my luck! I am anxiously awaiting word on this particular tv set and the reviewers are mostly concerned with stands, sound systems, dvd's, connecting computers and game playing.

What ever happened to just watching television on a television set?

I'm just kidding, guys, but I would ask you to show a little mercy for us old fashioned types that just like to watch tv and try to do it with the best picture possible.

Best of luck to all of you that gone with the new JVC. I hope it proves to be a great set.

hifiaudio2

04-11-05, 03:39 PM

I am finding that the CA is very dependent on the material being displayed. It seems almost nonexistent on dvds. In fact, this is the best I have ever seen my dvds look, and all on a cheap pioneer progressive scan output through component.

I high quality hdmi player should be even better (hopefully one of the new denons at some point)

Other than absolute black level, dvds look better on this than on my Barco 808 crt. And the brightness is so high that apparent black is good as well.

Kid Red

04-11-05, 03:55 PM

hifi- can you elaborate on the CA? You mean there is no green/purple pixel inside edges on DVDs but there is on SD? Seems weird to me. I thought if it's there, it would show on every source.

hifiaudio2

04-11-05, 04:05 PM

I wouldnt say it isnt there, and i havent tried test pattens, but I definitely noticed it on a Discovery HD show, and not at all on multiple dvds.

I agree though, it should be there for everything. I will be spending more time on that tonight.

navychop

04-11-05, 04:57 PM

hifiaudio2:

Could you watch a snippet of a DVD with the player set to progressive, and then again with the player progressive turned off? This would tell us, assuming there is any difference at all, if the player or the TV is better at converting to progressive.

CA report seems weird- I'm with Kid Red. I thought it would always be there, if at all. Maybe with the lower rez of the DVD source, it somehow washes out. Less defined. I'm grasping.

I'll check the same things tomorrow - when MINE shows up. I have a delivery slot of noon to four! :D I almost drove up today to get it myself. I called to ensure they knew it's an inside the threshold delivery. The guy said "of course" and said it meant they would put it just inside the front door, and that there would be two guys there to do it.

My plan is to check the following and post results:
1. Checking NTSC & ATSC OTA, satellite SD, DVD and (gasp!) VHS images for quick and dirty impressions.
2. Freeze framing to check for CA- up close and at 12' (my normal viewing distance).
3. Hook up laptop to VGA input and check for usefulness of laptop word processing, web surfing and display of video snips from the HD. Just for the heck of it, I might play a VCD and DVD in the laptop to check results.
4. Check for blotches- areas of uneven color across the screen.
5. Check for color banding.
6. Examine black levels with different material. Matrix, MIB, Star Wars, etc. I'll do a most thorough job, it'll be tough but somebody's got to do it. :p
7. Check for stuck or dead pixels or other defects.
8. Make snapshots for posting.
9. Try to get closeup images of any defects, for posting.
10. Compare abilities of JVC TV & JVC 5 disc DVD player in converting to progressive.
11. Compare OTA tuner sensitivity to sensitivity of ATI HDTV Wonder in HTPC- and later, to the LG LST-4200A (an ATSC STB), when it arrives later this week.
12. Do more extensive testing when my DVE disc shows up. It appears the amazing dot com people have shipped it via millipede.

No satellite HD yet. I'm waiting until after the May announcement and after getting a better idea of the MPEG-4 phase in, and HD availability.

Does anyone care to add to this list? Things to look for and report?

hifiaudio2

04-11-05, 04:58 PM

I am intested in getting Colorfacts for calibration. Can someone tell me the codes for the older JVC to test if they work on this set?

pawrampe

04-11-05, 04:59 PM

Personally I think one of the only ways to reliably test a TV is to look at it's DVD performance. There are so many other variables with other sources that I sometime wonder what people are watching when they write reviews and mention artifacting and other issues. Compression does strange and terrible things to a signal... Compression on each channel is not the same...

My 2 cents.

Kid Red

04-11-05, 05:41 PM

navychop- looks about everything. I look forward to your report.

As for the 61", is it the same size as the old 61" If so, can we assume the 52" will be the same size as the old as well?

swenjj

04-11-05, 06:50 PM

how do the built in tuners in these tvs compare with the stb ones out there? i have had a samsung 160 and humax hfa100, are they better than them? do built in tuners handle multipath well? and weaker signals? are the tuners in the new ones new tuners or the ones from before? well, i suppose the last ones didnt have tuners but i am just trying to find out if i should sell my humax and trust that the built in is good, i hope so because then i have a free hdmi spot

navychop

04-11-05, 06:56 PM

The new 52" models have a "G" in the model number, the old ones had a "Z." This indicates different bezels, and hence, different sizes. But not necessarily by much.

navychop

04-11-05, 06:58 PM

swenjj-

I hope to have an answer for you shortly. Tomorrow I'll know roughly how it compares to the ATI HDTV Wonder. Later, I'll compare reception percentages. Later this week I'll be able to compare it to the LG STB (4200).

I figure the built in tuner eliminates a need for a second HDMI, because BD is expected to have firewire. So my sat box can use the HDMI- when I move up to an HD sat box.

westa6969

04-11-05, 07:34 PM

Disappointing feedback or lack thereof.

In comparisons, I've spent months on the Plasma Forum and Qualia and when reviewing threads on Quality plasma TV's it's regular to get "Jaw Dropping" "Awesome" and other hightened adjectives that run on for dozens of pages and a few checks for perhaps a panel Buzz, or NEC IR but the rest of the threads give detailed reviews of PQ and blacks and it appears this thread focuses on past problematic history of the JVC units which is not a glowing testimonial comparatively what Pio/Panny/Fujitsu Plasma or Qualia Units receive. It appears the input is related to looking for problems and yet we've yet to see anyone rave about how great they are at all.

Sorry, don't mean to offend anyone but this certainly doesn't make me want to buy one, nothing in these 5 pages equals a very glowing testimonial at all. I guess now I'll switch over to the Samsung 68 series or new Samsung plasma's debuting next month.

I wish the PB folks well but we sure don't see much to make anyone else here commit. Good Luck Navychop and JVCer's.

hifiaudio2

04-11-05, 07:41 PM

I have some shots I just took in between my 4 month old crying...I will try to upload or someone can shoot me an email and i will send to them...

Not sure if they show much since I just had my canon a85 on auto - but we will see...

hifiaudio2

04-11-05, 07:42 PM

Well - I have never seen a plasma that I liked, and I am very happy with this unit....

hifiaudio2

04-11-05, 07:58 PM

This pics turned out OK, if anything they make the problems look worse, but it will give you a worst case scenario....only a few of the test patterns made the issues visible. Someone will have to give me an email to send to though, I dont have the time to try to figure out how to get them in the forum.

Sketcha

04-11-05, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by AkaStp
westa6969, your ongoing comments about disappointing/lack of feedback aren't very motivating. Apparently only a handful of TVA power-buyers have actually received their new set (one was DOA). It could take weeks for a representative sample of new owners to get their sets, check them out, tweak them and post their impressions. So come on, give these guys a break (they've probably got important things like work, family, etc to deal with also) and be patient. I'm sure it won't be long before we're buried in first impressions and reviews.

Agreed.

Gotta' admit I thought this was pretty evident to anyone that had followed this thread. I guess the buzz is so great that people are posting on it like mad even though there's very little news.

I still think it would be a good idea to start a new one once the reviews start coming. If any are left on this thread, they could easily be copied and pasted.

Tom_Bombadil

04-11-05, 08:56 PM

I noted a few days ago in the JVC Power Buy thread that most of the people getting the first shipments were new to the forum. So I anticipated that there was a good chance they would not be subjecting their sets to the most rigorous tests.

We've waited this long, we can wait another week or two to get more comprehensive viewpoints.

swenjj

04-11-05, 10:08 PM

the one person said it was the most filmlike he has seen on an hdtv, that sounds pretty good to me, just what i want

menexxus

04-12-05, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by HistoneMaster
Which stand are you using, the old RK-CILA5S stand, the new (and so far unseen) RK-CILAM6 listed in the product brochure, or the one you can get with the powerbuy (not from JVC)?

Since you guys were talking about not having seen the New JVC STAND, I did a google search and found the stand in stock for the JVC HD61Z886 and the JVC HD70Z886. The Stand for the JVC HD61Z886 goes for $349.00 and the stand for the JVC HD70Z886 goes for $499.00. Unfortunately, they only have the picture for the JVC HD61Z886 stand.

JVC HD61Z886 stand is RKCILAM6
JVC HD70Z886 stand is RKCILAL6

The website for the stands is:

http://www.onecall.com/About_00001000_95_405_0_3_0_0.htm

HistoneMaster

04-12-05, 09:00 AM

Thanks for the heads up. Interesting, they are using a single stand for both the black and silver models. It looks like the legs are silver and the actual base is black, but I like the old stand better (I'm glad to hear it works with the new units).

I know some people are getting frustrated with this thread, but why dont we continue to use it for general questions and comments about the new models for another week or two until a few solid reviews come up, then we can make a new thread and cut/paste the usefull information so people dont have to sift through 6 or 7 pages of filler between reviews.

Doug

Kid Red

04-12-05, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by navychop
The new 52" models have a "G" in the model number, the old ones had a "Z." This indicates different bezels, and hence, different sizes. But not necessarily by much.

Well, different bezel could be the same size, the newer model will of course have the new letter in the model name. I'm just curious what size difference, if any, there between the new and old 61" as it may be a hint to the possible changes in the 52".

Jim Clark

04-12-05, 09:54 AM

I'm also interested in seeing more reviews as people get their sets.

navychop:

Any chance I could get a look at your set since we're both in NoVA? I can help you get it in the house and on the stand if needed. I guess you'll be getting it this afternoon, I should be available all day but the earlier the better for me. I've also got the Avia DVD if you want to use it for initial setup.

I'm in Vienna, send me an email to james.clark@cox.net, include you phone number if you want and I'll call or I'll reply with my phone numbers.

Jim

navychop

04-12-05, 10:14 AM

done.

swenjj

04-12-05, 10:40 AM

navychop, when did you expect to get yours in? today wasnt it?

mine should be in tommorrow, would it make sense to dve tweak it right away or just use it for a couple days and do it on the weakend?

hopefully this time my tv is in usable condition

navychop

04-12-05, 11:35 AM

It's HERE!

swenjj

04-12-05, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by navychop
It's HERE!

good deal, it will be nice to hear from a regular on this,

navy what other tv's have you had? just wondering what you will have to sort of compare it to,

of course, most likely you wont read this for a while because you are playing with the new toy :)

navychop

04-12-05, 01:20 PM

I'm waiting on JC to arrive to help heft it.

I don't recommend doing any serious cal (DVE/Avia) until after 50-100 hours are on the bulb. Of course, I'm no expert, I'm just parroting what I've read from others here.

I currently watch -gotta go, he's here.

Vikingmd

04-12-05, 02:57 PM

Can't wait to hear the report.

empire_of_one

04-12-05, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by navychop

No satellite HD yet. I'm waiting until after the May announcement and after getting a better idea of the MPEG-4 phase in, and HD availability.

I must be out of the loop. To which May announcement do you refer?
Also, to add one more thing to your checklist: can you report back on fan noise? Loud enough to hear during a dialogue-based scene on TV or DVD?

Wishfull1

04-12-05, 03:42 PM

It's here!!! My 61Z786 has arrived

Let me first say thanks to the delivery guy from our local Global. Not only did he get it inside the house, he helped carry it down in the basement and onto the stand (which is a Z-Line from Circuit City). He said it was the second DILA delivery for him today.

I got it plugged in, and let me tell you, this thing is fantastic. Absolutely Stunning!! I am no expert at this since this is my first HDTV, the only other TV's I have are the 32" CRT variety.

I haven't had much time to play with it. The wife and kids wanted to see it in action, so I hooked up the JVC progressive DVD player via component and popped in Shreck 2. They have taken over my TV!!:D

I really don't have to much to report at this time other than I do not regret this purchase at all.

I'm in the process of hooking up an OTA antenna in the attic. Need to get it done for American Idol (wife) and House (me) tonight. I will see how well the built in tuner does. I have DirecTV, but no HD. I am waiting for the Home Media Center from them due out this fall or next year or whenever.

Some little things to report:

Fan noise is not an issue for us. Even during low volume in the movie, it can barely be heard. A whole lot less the sitting next a computer, thats for sure.

Does not appear to have any CA, but then again this is only the watching the DVD so far. I don't have DVE, but plan on getting it.

The black cabinet looks great!

Colors are vibrant and uniform. No hint of splotches or banding. Blacks also appear uniform, neutral and free of hot spots or glow. I will have to try some more DVD's to get a better feel on this.

That is it for now. I will try and report back later with some pictures and other impressions.

Thanks to all at AVSForum for the comments on the JVC and others. I have made a wise choice!

Cheers!

Kid Red

04-12-05, 04:04 PM

Wow, keep the reviews coming!!

Navy!! Hurry up and report back.

navychop

04-12-05, 04:46 PM

AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
more in a bit....

swenjj

04-12-05, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by navychop
AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
more in a bit....

you dirty tease, :)

LL3HD

04-12-05, 05:12 PM

Is that like AHHHH, I dropped the damn thing on my toe and both my toe and new toy are broken? :(

Or is it an AHHHH, so this is what heaven looks like?

Hope it's the latter.
:cool:

navychop

04-12-05, 06:12 PM

The word for today, boys and girls, is GREAT!

As in, this thing is GREAT!

I got a call from Seko- they wanted to deliver early. I raced home, passing them on the way and gesturing to follow me. I later learned the driver thought maybe he had cut me off and the gestures were of a less friendly nature. But they soon realized what was going on. Very polite, carried it in, helped me move a couch, brought the TV next to where it will be, moved the couch back, maybe 5-10 minutes total. BTW, have you looked under your couch lately?.........

First off, I don't hear any fan noise. But I wasn't listening for it. I'll play a bit of Dangerous Liaisons later and listen carefully.

We watched some OTA (after I realized I needed to cycle the 721 to restore the OTA cable connection). The system found all the NTSC channels we normally get, plus it pulls in Baltimore's channel 2 (not very well, but watchable in a pinch). Picture was good. I have some speckle noise that is due to over amplifying but when I use a smaller amp, I lose a station. In between would be best, I might get an adjustable amp. But frankly, it only happens on NTSC, esp channel 5, and I don't think I'll be watching much NTSC anymore.

It picked up the ATSC stations I normally get, and everything looked fine. Except it does not show a picture (or sound) for 30-1 & 30-2, stations I sporadically get on my ATI HDTV Wonder. I must conclude that the tuner, while certainly good enough for the channels I normally might watch, is not quite as sensitive as the tuner in the ATI HDTV Wonder. I did not suddenly get WMPT, as I hoped. Maybe the LG LST-4200A due in later this week will do that.

Reception quality- PQ? MUCH better than I expected. Certainly I can easily watch OTA on this set, full size. And guess what- we watched a pre-recorded VHS tape of Riverdance. It was watchable. Not great, but again, quite watchable, which is more than I expected. I thought SD, esp VHS, would be only viewable in reduced size, by using POP- or twin, as JVC seems to call it.

We watched bits of DVDs. Looked great! And after I remembered to set the DVD player to 16:9 from the old 4:3 setting, the Panorama/Cinema/Full/Regular settings began to make more sense. Full now seems to adjust properly for different aspects on different DVDs. BTW, don't try to set your aspect ratio on an opening menu screen or such- it's likely the aspect ratio of that screen will not match the actual movie.

Again, DVDs were very good- great. Later I'll switch the player to progressive mode and see if it makes a difference as to which piece of equipment converts to progressive better.

We used the THX optimizer, since we did not have AVIA or DVE handy. We tweaked and improved the picture. Later, when my wife showed up, we reduced the yellow a bit more to improve the skin tones with DTV OTA.

I have no HD source but OTA, and that doesn't start until 6, I guess. I'll tune in 26 and others and get a real handle on just how good this set can be.

Blotching- this is what I call a reported defect on some earlier sets where a black field will have a lighter colored area on one side, and maybe a purplish color somewhere else. THERE IS NONE. On light grey screens and on black star fields from Star Wars, color is consistent.

Color banding: None. I looked for this just before typing this up. Absolutely not a trace.

CA. Sorta. Maybe convergence in this case. Using THX I put a white circle up on the screen. Getting up close and personal to the screen reveals the right part of the circle has a 1-2 pixel green side on the left, and magenta on the right. This is not visible on the left side of the circle. At the bottom of the circle, green on top, magenta on the bottom. This is not visible at the top of the circle. Or maybe I have green and magenta reversed. In any event, it is not noticeable from my normal 12' viewing distance, or even outside of very roughly 2 feet. More on this later.

Very little video noise on edges. I did not notice any until I later showed some scenes to my wife, where it was occasionally visible. This was NTSC so it's the source and how it's handled.

No motion artifacts when scenes are panned. No blurring in fast motion.

E* SD material looked even better than DTV OTA . Very watchable. I will have no trouble watching the History Channel on this set.

I previously watched an NTSC 36" set for most viewing. Also JVC. I will admit that the NTSC OTA does look better on the 36" CRT, but not by a large amount. I am really REALLY surprised at the SD PQ. Pleasantly surprised.

We thought that the edges looked bowed in at bit. I put a piece of styrofoam packing material next to the sides as a straight edge. Not bowed in, just my imagination.

Side bars are grey. I don't see a menu option to change this to black, but I certainly have not yet mastered the menu. Some 4:3 material is broadcast in a 16:9 format with black bars.

And yes, black is black. I'm not too sensitive in this area. We watched parts of the Matrix also, and this movie has a lot of black. I could see details in the black. I suspect side by side with a good CRT would show a difference, but when this set is fully tweaked, probably not too much. I'm happy with it now, and I expect it will get better as I learn to tweak. I might get an ISF cal. We did not try changing modes (theater, etc).

One thing I do not care for, and hope I will find an alternative to, is the single input button. You must cycle thru each mode to get to the one you want. I may just need to RTM and learn a better way.

Also, I do not have this plugged in as well as I could, in the sense that my compulink is not working properly to automatically shift inputs when I shift from OTA to DVD to E* to tape. The JVC compulink eliminates the need to select which input on the TV to go to, it just does it when you select the different sources on the receiver. I think if I move my DVD to video 2 I may solve much of this. I did not realize how much I was accustomed to the compulink until I was asked which outputs I was using from each source (S-vid, component, etc). I had forgotten- I just let compulink do it automatically so I never have to remember. If you don't have and use the JVC compulink system, this paragraph may not make much sense to you- don't worry about it. Minor.

Mine is up high, too high, eye level is about the bottom of the screen. Still, wonderfully watchable. I might angle the set down slightly to compensate. The furniture it's on has high WAF so it stays.

It turns out I did not have a male to male VGA cable, so I have not hooked up the laptop yet. My wife & I will go out tonight and forage for one. Guess I'd better pony up supper, too.

I'll try to post pictures later.

IT'S A KEEPER!

navychop

04-12-05, 06:20 PM

BTW, since last July I have been watching DTV on an HTPC with an ATI HDTV Wonder card and a 21" monitor. BIG difference. Before that, I rented an STB for a week, just to test reception in this area. Renting an STB is a good idea before buying stuff. It'll help figure out what works before you commit to the big bucks.

The "May" announcement. Rumors in these forums say that May 1 (or so) may have an announcement from E* on an upgrade path to MPEG-4, leasing units to current and new subscribers, and maybe even HD. Other rumors say a deal for all or part of the V* "exclusives" is in the works, and some HD for E* may start as early as June. Use of rainbow 1 presumably cannot start until FCC approval, maybe 3-4 months away.

Off to forage.

Kid Red

04-12-05, 06:54 PM

Navy great writeup, thanks.
Good news on the color banding, did you pop in Nemo? That has a lot of banding or -stepping in shades of color) ion the ocean. Good news on the CA, sounds like at least they minimized it. Your color (dropping yellow) confuses me because the JVC nails color OTB and even when calibrating with Avia. And with the grey bars that blows because someone said the bars were black so I was almost expecting that to be the case.

ocxplant

04-12-05, 07:00 PM

Nice Navy! Glad you are enjoying the bliss that is this set :) me too...

On the part about the inputs..I was peeved about that too, but figured out that after you push input once then use the cursor up and down keys on the remote to cycle easier ;)

ocxplant

swenjj

04-12-05, 07:05 PM

if there is no burn in why have grey bars? they bug me for some reason

ocxplant

04-12-05, 07:42 PM

Here's some pics all:

Camera is not that great (only 1.3 megapixel)so you can't really judge anything by it, but hey I'm sure some of you just want to see some pics of the set anyway :)

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=your_stuff&user_id=46567

ocxplant

P.S. And don't laugh at the picture of the set in its home...I know it looks ghetto at the moment I need to do some cable management and touch ups...it takes time :)

Sketcha

04-12-05, 07:58 PM

Nice shots, actually. Your system looks great, dude!

What kind of receiver or pre-pro do you have? The placement of your mains is unfortunate, but a good auto-room-set-up will compensate for that and you'd never notice it, eh?

lorenzow

04-12-05, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by swenjj
if there is no burn in why have grey bars? they bug me for some reason

According to the manual:
REGULAR - The regular ratio is used when you want to watch a 4:3 broadcast or recorded program without modifying the original picture to fit the dimensions of your 16:9 screen. The 4:3 picture will fill the screen from top to bottom, while black bars will appear to fill up the remaining space along the picture’s sides. The 4:3 picture will be centered within the boundaries of the 16:9 screen.

Vikingmd

04-12-05, 08:03 PM

If that's what you call ghetto, I'll be interested to see what you think looks good.

jb007

04-12-05, 08:05 PM

Hi all, just dropping by from the Qualia 006 Owner's Thread and wanted to say hello. I've been following your thread the past few days and share in the excitement with some of you that are receiving your new TV's. Congratulations!

paulbf1

04-12-05, 08:06 PM

OCxplant,

Nice "home"

Just some audio suggestions....

Put both of the front speakers at the same distance if you can. Even with receiver delay adjustments, there will still be an image shift to some extent. If you have small kids, I suggest a good barbed wire to avoid knocking them over :)

Your interior decorator imay want to kill me, but if there isn't one, put a heavy rug between the listeners and the speakers to absorb the ground bounce. The more damping the better as it appears that room is very reverberant.

Otherwise, the pics look good.

Paul

ocxplant

04-12-05, 08:08 PM

Thanks Sketcha!

Yeah it stinks that my mains have to be like that, but the other option was bookshelfs up in the cubes next to the reciever and that would have compressed my soundstage too much. But it actually doesn't sound strange at all to me and with a tall plant or something next to the left main the WAF won't be too low I hope..lol. (She hasn't seen the speaker set-up yet, she will tonight.)

My receiver is a Yamaha HTR-5150, but I am going to upgrade soon and hopefully my next receiver will have an 'auto-setup' type system (I'm thinking ONKYO but haven't decided yet.)

ocxplant

kfeltes

04-12-05, 08:54 PM

Great news navy.... Congratulations!!! I fully agree......SD PQ is definitely watchable. Much better than expected.

I finally hooked my PC up to it via DVI-2-HDMI cable. The resolution is just about perfect. I'm working on tweaking it as some of the text is being duplicated/shadowed in different colors. I know there's a name for this but I can't remember what it is. I'll post my settings when I find out what they are. I'll be using the HTPC for DVDs/xvid and SD TV - so I need the PC connection cleaned up. It's my priority right now.

navy - Any luck on the PC hookup?

Image 1: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=235665

Stan54

04-12-05, 09:32 PM

I suspect that you are refering to analog PQ and not digital SD. Am I correct? Digital SD should be very, very good and analog is, hopefully, more than adequate.

Can you clear this up?

ocxplant

04-12-05, 09:47 PM

kfeltes-

Nice, my post is on your tv..lol.

Anyway,

Please do post what the final resolution comes out to be..HTPC is next on my list of things to do and you would save me alot of hassle tweaking the rez.

Are you going to be using a PVR app like Sage or anything??

Also, please post some pics of upscaled DVD's (I assume you ARE going to be upscaling to 720p no?)from your HTPC when you get it right.

Thanks,

ocxplant

navychop

04-12-05, 10:18 PM

First, I'd like to thank Jim Clark for coming over and helping/sharing. I hope it was worth his time and trouble. Maybe he can post his observations also. They may be a tad more objective!

I can definitely hear the fan when I turn off the TV, so I can imagine in soft passages it will be a presence in the background. It is not likely to be troubling, though. I must point out, I keep my HVAC fan set to "on" not "auto" so there is always some background sound anyway. Haven't tried "D L" yet or anything else with quiet passages. Just got back- little time left for play tonight. But I can recommend (another) great Indian restaurant.

ocxplant: Thanks for the cursor tip. I'll have to try that.

I got the M-M VGA cable, but will not have time tonight to try the laptop. Maybe tomorrow night. I'll try to post pictures tomorrow night also.

Finding Nemo- just went down to try that out real quick. Watched about 15 mins, searching out scenes where I thought there might be color banding. None. Lookin REAL good.

I also moved my DVD component input from vid 1 to vid 2, and now my compulink works properly for selecting the proper input automatically. Now to wire in the audio from the TV to the receiver for ATSC, and see if there is a better way of hooking the sat receiver to the TV.

OTA HDTV looks quite good. Well, except for channel 26. Now I understand all the bit starving complaints. On a 21" monitor it looks good. On a 61" you can see what a pathetic job they are doing. They obviously don't care, or figure their audience has tiny TVs. But the big donors they want would be more likely to have big TVs. I'm being harsh too soon- maybe the two shows I watched part of tonight are not representative of their usual fare. Maybe.

Stan54- not sure which comment your post 136 is referring to. I find analog SD quite watchable. Digital SD is even better, but I would not say it is very very good. HD is very very good (outside of WETA). Digital SD is probably better than the analog SD on my 36" 4:3 NTSC CRT set, and is a bigger image to boot.

BTW, 30-1 & 30-2 come thru just fine at night. I wonder if the ATI HDTV Wonder does any better or worse during the day? I'll have to check that out. I may have failed to give proper credit to the JVC tuner.

millstj

04-12-05, 10:22 PM

Navy or anyone else,

Do you have a UPS connected to keep the fan going to cool bulb in case of a power outage? What type UPS will suffice on the JVC?

Wishfull1

04-12-05, 10:28 PM

Not much new to report. Just lovin' this set. Navy did a fine job with his review.

Tuner works great. Picked up our local HD and enjoyed House and others. During comercials, our side bars are black? Could this be how it was broadcast?

Oh... and what SD we did watch. I look very acceptable.

Heres a pic. The wires need cleaned up and things need added. But, here it is on a Z-Line stand.

Cheers

navychop

04-12-05, 10:38 PM

I have mine plugged in to an APC 750 UPS. I might later get a filter. First, I want to run some tests. I could see video interference on OTA on the CRT when I ran a certain chair heater/back massager. I want to see if that occurs with this set also, and then consider if a filter might extend the life of the equipment, as well.

Right now, I let the TV do the upscaling. My DVD player does not upscale. In the fall or later, I might get a BD. Also, the TV is doing the conversion to progressive- I'll try it with the player doing the conversion and see if there's any difference.

BTW, I have left gamma on for now. Maybe after I've tweaked some more I'll turn it off, but right now I think the set looks better with it on.

hifiaudio2

04-12-05, 11:01 PM

Navy are you seeing the CA on the left side of the set? I still see some, mainly showing itself in hD material. Are these issues usually set dependant? If someone will send me an email to send them to I will send pics from Video Essentials that I took..

dhauser

04-12-05, 11:06 PM

I'm glad some reviews are starting to come in as I was about to write off these tv's after going to a few stores this past weekend. I know bb isn't known for being the best place to demo so I took it with a grain of salt when the image was fuzzy compared to other models. It was better at ue but it still didn't seem as crisp as either the sony 60xs955 or the Samsungs. I realize these are newly back in stores so maybe they aren't perfectly dialed in yet. Is this technology known for a having a somewhat softer picture? I'm new to shopping for hd tv's so half of what I read in these reviews is greek to me. Is the pq supposed to be better on these or is it just that it has less problems as the the two models mentioned above with a slight sacrifice in image quality? From a pure wow factor when I walk into a store the Sony always hits me hardest but I honestly don't know the difference between artifacts, sse, etc so I don't want to go down that road and then regret it. I like the price of the H-DILA tv's and want to like them so I'm going to have to wait until I learn more which is why I'm thankful for threads like these.

navychop

04-12-05, 11:11 PM

hifiaudio2:

No, only on the right which makes me suspect it's not CA.

dhauser:

The LCoS technology lends itself to a more film-like, softer appearance. DLP tends to be a sharper, video-like image.

tokerblue

04-12-05, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by navychop
BTW, I have left gamma on for now. Maybe after I've tweaked some more I'll turn it off, but right now I think the set looks better with it on.
> If you have calibrated the contrast, try pausing a DVD or a HD picture and turning the Dynamic Gamma on and off. I'm fairly positive you'll see a lot of black crush with it turned on. I know mine does a fair amount of it, so I leave it off.

jcardona

04-13-05, 08:45 AM

Is the screen reflective? My last RPTV had a reflective screen which caused it to be nearly unwatchable with a lot of light on in the room.

Thanks,
Jason

Kid Red

04-13-05, 09:14 AM

jcardona- no it's not reflective.

Navy-hifi- So it's confirmed about grey bars? That's so disappointing. Gama is best turned off. It creates an unnaturally high contrast. Turn it off and adjust accordingly with Avia. At first gamma looks good with the blacks, but if you do Avia with gamma off, then calibrate, then turn gamma on, you'll see it crush blacks and lighten light greys. No color banding in Nemo?!?! Wow, that's good to hear.

hifi- what are you seeing on the left? and navy on the right? CA is the green/purple pixel inside stroke effect. You guys are seeing that on just one side (but differing) of the screen? Or is it color fringing you're seeing?

Tecumseh

04-13-05, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by dhauser
I'm glad some reviews are starting to come in as I was about to write off these tv's after going to a few stores this past weekend. I know bb isn't known for being the best place to demo so I took it with a grain of salt when the image was fuzzy compared to other models. It was better at ue but it still didn't seem as crisp as either the sony 60xs955 or the Samsungs. I realize these are newly back in stores so maybe they aren't perfectly dialed in yet. Is this technology known for a having a somewhat softer picture? I'm new to shopping for hd tv's so half of what I read in these reviews is greek to me. Is the pq supposed to be better on these or is it just that it has less problems as the the two models mentioned above with a slight sacrifice in image quality? From a pure wow factor when I walk into a store the Sony always hits me hardest but I honestly don't know the difference between artifacts, sse, etc so I don't want to go down that road and then regret it. I like the price of the H-DILA tv's and want to like them so I'm going to have to wait until I learn more which is why I'm thankful for threads like these.

I feel exactly the same and unless the JVC is changed from their first models, than Sony is the way I think I am leaning.
No offence to you guys of course.

navychop

04-13-05, 10:51 AM

I liked the 575 picture. The 786 I have has a better picture. It's great. This may be due in part to a better setup/surroundings, compared to a brightly lit showroom- but I think the TV itself has had some improvements in PQ. I still can't get over how good the SD from satellite and DTV OTA is.

I watched a Twilight Zone episode this morning, from the satellite receiver. A black and white Twilight Zone. Very, very good. No false colors introduced, just plain B&W.

My wife & I have visited Toronto many times. Nice city, we really like it. If you come visit the DC area, contact me & you can see for yourself- much better than in a showroom. Of course, getting to a showroom is cheaper, but hey, this isn't a cheap hobby. ;)

I should get my DVE disc shortly, the millipede delivery service must have settled their strike. I'll tweak, but in the nearer term I'll try that pause idea tokerblue has and check the gamma on and off. There's an awful lot to tweak. So far, I don't see much effect from "detail" and "digital noise clear" but I haven't been at it much. And I haven't even touched things like "theater pro."

I will note that to tune in DTV channel 26 I enter 26 and it goes to 26-1. If I want 26-3 I cannot enter 263, I enter 26 and then channel up twice. There is an alternative, using the SUB button, but I haven't tried that yet. I gather I would press 26 SUB 3 to get to 26-3 directly. I guess I'll think of the SUB button as a dash button and all will be well. Done this way since digital cable channels may be 3 digits plus sub channels, I guess. Am I getting picky or what? :p

I'll try to get some pics up later. Hopefully they came out OK, haven't even checked that yet. I would expect CA to be consistent across the screen, but what I'm seeing isn't. So either I misunderstand CA or it's something else. Slight convergence error?

BTW, Tecumseh, these are sorta the fourth set of models from JVC. They have the discontinued Dahlia, their FPTV, the 575s and now the 786/886s.

DonDougan

04-13-05, 10:57 AM

Navychop - thanks for the great review. I'll look at some of the same things when mine arrives.

DonDougan

04-13-05, 10:58 AM

I just talked to Seko and after some sweet talking I was able to convince them to deliver my 61" this afternoon. They wanted to wait for a 2 man crew which could have taken several days but I offered to help. My Seko tracking says it's 232 lbs. That can't be right can it? Isn't about 100 lbs? It isn't shipped in a wood crate is it? Wish me luck!

I have Comcast coming tomorrow to hook up a 6412 DVR so I'll be able to review the JVC with cable HDTV input. Not sure if I'll hook it up with DVI/HDMI or YPbPr though. Any suggestions? I'll also look at OTA, DVD and HTPC. I really hope we can get some good HTPC results - again, either DVI/HDMI or YPbPr. I also have a JVC 40K D-VHS recorder I'll hook up to the 1394 connector.

FWIW, I don't currently have a RPTV so my basis for comparison will be my Sony 36" XBR tube set and my JVC D-ILA theatre room front projector running off an HTPC with TheatreTek.

enflux75

04-13-05, 11:18 AM

Navychop, great reviews!

You're comments on color uniformity:

"Blotching- this is what I call a reported defect on some earlier sets where a black field will have a lighter colored area on one side, and maybe a purplish color somewhere else. THERE IS NONE. On light grey screens and on black star fields from Star Wars, color is consistent."

warms my heart. I'm a stickler for uniform dark and light screens. My set has been a little dissapointing in that respect.

I had and still have color non-uniformity on mostly black/mostly white scenes with my HD-52Z575, even with my new light engine. And watching the original Star Wars Trilogy (my favorite movies of all time) has been a bittersweet experience. Watching Star Wars at night in a DARK room and seeing Millenium Falcon fly across a green/purple starfield is annoying I must admit. I like my starfields to be uniformly black, thank you.

And I'm also glad to hear watching the Twilight Zone actually shows plain black and white. I love the original Twilight Zone.

Maybe I can trade my old set in at JVC and get some credit toward a new one.

navychop

04-13-05, 11:22 AM

The label on the box said something like 156 lbs. I think the 232 is just a way of jacking up the shipping costs- they have an alternative to estimate weights based on measurements rather than weighing. Or something like that.

Box is cardboard with styro on corners. Cut straps, remove top, surrounding box will now slide up easily, leaving TV on bottom and easy to get at. Pull plastic wrap down. Follow the inside picture of how to pick it up.

Sounds like you are television deprived! :rolleyes: ;)

Kid Red

04-13-05, 11:48 AM

enflux75- You say you still have green or purple concerns? According to JVC, that is unacceptable. You should have absolutely ZERO change in color at the edges, brightness drop is one thing, but there should be no color in the corners. Call JVC and get another light engine replacement and check that one. I've had 3 bad light engines and JVC will issue a RA to best buy which would allow me to get a new set, the new 52G786 when it comes out :) So I would call them, tell them you have green/purple corners, takes some pics, email them and at the least, you'll get a perfect light engine, if not, you might get a new set.

navychop

04-13-05, 12:07 PM

So here's a few pics. BTW, the screen is not reflective. That was important to me in selecting a set. Lotta daylight in the living room.

navychop

04-13-05, 12:08 PM

More.

navychop

04-13-05, 12:09 PM

More. Gotta learn how to attach more than one pic per post.

tokerblue

04-13-05, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by navychop
I'll tweak, but in the nearer term I'll try that pause idea tokerblue has and check the gamma on and off. There's an awful lot to tweak. So far, I don't see much effect from "detail" and "digital noise clear" but I haven't been at it much.
> You won't see a lot of different in the Detail setting until you use the DVE disc for calibration. The Digital Noise Clear is much easier to see. I ended turning it off on mine since I didn't like what it was doing to the image. It's really hard to spot on a normal DVD, but if you pop in a DVD like The Incredibles or Finding Nemo, it should be fairly easy to spot what the Digital Noise Clear setting is doing to the image, particulary the edges of objects.

kfeltes

04-13-05, 12:52 PM

PC settings (Digital-in):

I have a nVidia Geforce FX5200 w/ driver version: 71.84
Windows XP Pro sp/2
Sage TV

I used the following color correction settings for both resolutions:
system tray --> NVIDIA SETTINGS --> color correction --> HD-61Z786:
I left digital vibrance, brightness and image sharpening as default.
I changed contrast to 80%
I changed Gamma to 1.16

Resolution #1: System tray --> NVIDIA SETTINGS --> NVIDIA Display --> overscan compsenstaion. I chose underscan and left the default (8% 1177 x 662). I tried 7% and 9% but 8% is as close as it gets with the NVIDIA config. Click OK - the screen will go blank for about 7 seconds. The screen will come up and your resolution will match almost perfectly. The bottom will be about 2 pixels (under) and the sides will be perfect. However, this yielded higher pixel shadowing. Pictures:

Overall resolution: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=235659
pixel issue: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=235661

Resolution #2: I chose native resolution from the settings in #1. So the resolution is larger than the TV. It also showed less pixel shadowing and ultimately a much better image. Although some of the desktop (edges on all sides) are cut off, the image is much better and definitely usable. DVDs and xvid look much better with the native resolution. Pictures:

Overall resolution: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=235654
pixel issue: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=235649

The pixel pictures don't show much change, however there is a noticeable change when you're sitting 10' away.

Powerstrip will be used next.

Praise time....
This TV lives up to its billing. It is simply gorgeous on DVD (standalone, component). I definitely noticed a change w/ progressive and interlaced. Progressive was much more soft/film-like. It's absolutely stunning. Blacks are better on this than my 6 year old 36" Toshiba Cinema Series CRT. I don't know if I'll ever go to a cinema again. Netflix is my friend.

kfeltes

04-13-05, 01:05 PM

And, the grey bars on the side depend on the signal. I'll be watching a show and the bars are black, then a commercial will come on and the bars are grey. Another commercial will come on and the bars are black again. Are others seeing this?

navychop

04-13-05, 01:14 PM

Yes. I think when a 4:3 is broadcast as 4:3 the JVC adds grey bars. Sometimes the station broadcasts 4:3 in a 16:9 format, and they add black bars. Not certain, just my working hypothesis.

Kid Red

04-13-05, 01:15 PM

kfeltes- Yea, that means the JVC defaults to grey :( Some channels push the black, some don't. This is disappointing since one early owner said all the bars were black. I think they just didn't tune to the correct channel to see the grey bars.

hifiaudio2

04-13-05, 01:25 PM

What website offers some image hosting free that I can upload some VE pics to? I would like to show what I say my set is doing on the left side....

Kid Red

04-13-05, 01:37 PM

hifi- If they are 800x600 or you can resize them, simply hit 'post reply' button and on that page, there's an option to attach photos. You then upload then from your computer right to AVS.

ocxplant

04-13-05, 01:37 PM

hifi-

Imagedump.com works pretty good. Just setup a free account and upload away.

ocxplant

Sketcha

04-13-05, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by ocxplant
Thanks Sketcha!

Yeah it stinks that my mains have to be like that, but the other option was bookshelfs up in the cubes next to the reciever and that would have compressed my soundstage too much. But it actually doesn't sound strange at all to me and with a tall plant or something next to the left main the WAF won't be too low I hope..lol. (She hasn't seen the speaker set-up yet, she will tonight.)

My receiver is a Yamaha HTR-5150, but I am going to upgrade soon and hopefully my next receiver will have an 'auto-setup' type system (I'm thinking ONKYO but haven't decided yet.)

ocxplant

ocxy,

Check out the H/K 635. There seem to be a few bugs, but there is supposed to be a firmware fix coming out this month. Has the best auto set-up in it's price range by far.

glweeks

04-13-05, 03:27 PM

So when will the new 52" models be out?

DonDougan

04-13-05, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by glweeks
So when will the new 52" models be out? June. See here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5377081#post5377081)

DonDougan

04-13-05, 03:36 PM

Woo Hoo! My 61" just arrived. :D It was close - Seko didn't call in advance like we agreed to and then almost canceled on me 'cause the driver got there and no one was home. That was the quickest trip home from work in a long time!

It looks undamaged. More later...

empire_of_one

04-13-05, 03:45 PM

So how is SSE? If you have Ice Age or Empire Strikes Back, how sparkly is the screen on those snowy scenes?

Down

04-13-05, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by DonDougan
June. See here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5377081#post5377081)

I sure hope they do, as that'll increase the chances of the 56" launching in July, which is the set I'm waiting for:cool:

Jim Clark

04-13-05, 03:49 PM

I can confirm everything navy said.

The first thing I noticed when I arrived was the cabinet, it's very attractive and compact. It's pretty surprising how compact the overall unit is for a 61" set.

We lifted it into place and navy started on the connections. When we fired it up and were doing one of the first channel searches, there was something wrong, it wasn't getting the signal. A reset of the sat receiver fixed that and it found the NTSC and ATSC locals just fine.

The SD pictures were surprisingly good. Analog signals were totally watchable and the digitals were noticeably (if not substantially) better. It was displaying gray bars for some material and black bars for others. I think the set produces the gray bars for the analog OTA signal and the black bars are included with the digital OTA signal. We didn't find a setting to change the gray bars to black, the menus are somewhat complicated but it may be that the gray bars are the only option for certain material.

We did some preliminary tweaking of the settings. The OTA analog and digital seemed to have the color setting way too hot. Hopefully, all the video settings are adjustable for each input seperately. If you had to re-adjust the setting each time you changed inputs that would be a real pain and would probably be a deal breaker for me.

We popped in a couple of DVD's to check them out. Used Matrix to check black levels. Looked good to me but I'm probably not as sensitive to that stuff as the hard core videofiles in here. We used the THX setup stuff on the Starwars DVD to try and tweak the picture a little more. When we viewed a few scenes I thought the picture looked great.

I didn't get to see any HD material, navy's only HD receiver is the OTA one in the set and there wasn't any HD material being broadcast at the time we set it up. I'm a little surprised that the PBS HD material he first viewed was not up to his expectations. I've seen HD material from PBS on a 96" front projection Barco CRT (older unit) and it was outstanding.

At first glance this set looks like a winner. SD material and DVD's looked very good. I'm guessing it will be great with good HD material. I would love to see this set compared side-by-side with a Sony 955. I'd be willing to accept "slightly" less picture quality and eliminate the stupid side speakers on the Sony.

Jim

Kid Red

04-13-05, 04:01 PM

Jim- Weird about the color being hot. My JVC (current 52") was dead on OTB. Maybe it was the show you were watching. SD is usually either really dead color wise or slightly over saturated. I can't wait for the 52" to come out.

Stan54

04-13-05, 04:13 PM

Thanks, Navy and Jim, for responding to my question regarding SD. This is important to all of us, but all too often the writer refers only to "SD." I believe that SD is a term the FCC uses to for digital television signals delivering less than 720. Analog is analog and not SD. It sure doesn't tell me anything when the writer describes his "SD" reception. I want to know both analog and digital with high definition digital described separately.

Thanks again and keep it coming.

Sketcha

04-13-05, 04:32 PM

What I haven't seen yet is anyone comparing this rig to last year's model. I'm thinking about getting one from Costco.

Anyone?

swenjj

04-13-05, 05:41 PM

mine came in finally,
i couldnt get a picture out of it for a while, until i figured out that D/A button is to switch between analog and video tuners, i was worried for a while, looks pretty awesome so far,

alot of different color and picture adjustments and stuff, do i just turn all the automatic adjustments off and use DVE?
i dont see contrast in the menu, but i suppose i'll read the manual a little more

hifiaudio2

04-13-05, 06:48 PM

Is there a better site than imagedump? The home page had inappropriate images and the "security code" on every page that you do something we impossible to even read what it was....

Anything better?

swenjj

04-13-05, 06:58 PM

yahoo works pretty well for me, just go to photos, i have a ton of photos on there, its free

swenjj

04-13-05, 07:04 PM

ok, quick help please, how do i open the front panel to view the compact flash cards, it says in the manual to open the front panel

also, the tv was set to 4:3 in the digital setup, make sure you switch that

Onmitsu

04-13-05, 07:11 PM

"What I haven't seen yet is anyone comparing this rig to last year's model. I'm thinking about getting one from Costco.

Anyone?"

My local Brick & Mortar will be delivering my 61Z786 and taking away my Jan 2005 build 61Z585 at the same time. I will post a back-to-back comparison as soon as I can.

No word on delivery date yet. They just said that I will get mine when the 786s arrive in their warehouse. Should be any day now.

lorenzow

04-13-05, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by swenjj
ok, quick help please, how do i open the front panel to view the compact flash cards, it says in the manual to open the front panel

The manual says on page 87:

Notes:
MEDIA CARD VIEWER is for HD-70G886 ONLY.

swenjj

04-13-05, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by lorenzow
The manual says on page 87:

you know, i guess that explains why i cant find a front panel, doh! :)

my wife likes having the built in tuner, so you just turn it on and watch instead of having a separate box for tuning, half an hour until i watch my first hour show in hd on it, smallville, that should be pretty nice on this set, at least as long as the local wb bothers to put it on in hd-they are terrible at it

hifiaudio2

04-13-05, 07:32 PM

Ok I have them on yahoo photos.

Two things:

How do I get a link to post here so everyone can see?

How can I make them visible in native 1600 x 1200?

lorenzow

04-13-05, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by swenjj
you know, i guess that explains why i cant find a front panel, doh! :)

I envy you. You get to watch the TV and all I can do is read the lousy manual. :(

hifiaudio2

04-13-05, 07:58 PM

Lets see if this works:

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=krxrxvb.z563qbb&x=0&y=dlqvat

It is test patterns only. I am just looking for some initial feedback. The red on the lines is mainly on the left side of the set.

Vikingmd

04-13-05, 08:17 PM

The purple and green bordering the white lines in photo 9/12 looks like chromatic aberration to me, but I'm no expert- just a newb.

swenjj

04-13-05, 09:28 PM

i watched smallville in hd, it looked ok , but had something to irritate me, some solid colors would really have a blotchy fade instead of smooth,
but i put in a dvd and it looked perfect, so it must be just the crappy signal from the WB like usual

side note, i am totally confused by DVE, but i have been up since 3 this morning, so maybe this weekend will work better and i can spend some time watching the whole thing, i thought it would step you through each test but it looks like they teach you everything then you just do it with the test signals

oh well, time to hit the sack for a few hours sleep before work i guess, this weekend the tv will get some major hours on it

navychop

04-13-05, 10:06 PM

What was I thinking? It certainly DOES look better with gamma off.

I'm having trouble getting viewable closeups with the camera, but I'll try to post more pics tomorrow.

navychop

04-13-05, 10:11 PM

BTW, we had a brief power outage tonight, more of a stutter, lights blinked, etc. Glad I had the DILA on an UPS.

hifiaudio2

04-13-05, 10:56 PM

Navy - please check my photos and comment...

Do you see anything that might be remedied by getting another unit from my brick and mortar? I have about another week on the return / exchange policy....

videobruce

04-13-05, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Vikingmd
The purple and green bordering the white lines in photo 9/12 looks like chromatic aberration to me, but I'm no expert- just a newb. Yep, your correct. You aren't a newbie anymore. So much for the CA problem being corrected with the new models!:mad:

hifiaudio2; where did the patterns come from? Who has the generator and what model?

I hope you have requested a exchange! That's one of th worst I have seen so far.:mad:

Realy not a good thing.

SouthBark

04-13-05, 11:44 PM

I stopped by HH Gregg today around 3:30 pm. They had the 61Z786 set up by itself. The list price on the TV was $3699 and they had it priced a little less than that (TV Authority has them beat by a couple hundred). It was receiving an HD feed OTA through it's own tuner. It was NOT in line with all the other TV's.

The cabinet is, of course, all black. I think it's slightly better looking than the 575/585 series (or is it the same?). There was no HUGE Dila sticker on it. It was mounted on the JVC stand, but I forgot to see if it was the old or new one.

Good timing for me, because the Atlanta Braves game was on TBS HD. It looked awesome!! The picture seems to be sharper than the 575/585 series. I noticed no CA, green glow, or anything abnormal There were, however, grey bars when the game was at commercial.

I asked the guy (who was a manager) to put in a DVD (they had a crappy Kenwood hooked up). The only DVD he had was some concert DVD and I can't remember who it was. The picture was OK, but not great. This DVD was from 2000. Seems likely that the quality of the DVD and the cameras the concert was recorded with were poor (or they didn't have the player outputting progressive). I'll have to take my own DVD next time.

I'll take a look at this model in a few other stores, but it looks like a winner! I'm waiting for the 52".

Vikingmd

04-14-05, 12:16 AM

videobruce the problem is that the CA could be from the camera taking the photos not the set. Hey, I try to be an optimist.

Ken Golden

04-14-05, 12:37 AM

navychop:

So are my CES comments accurate? Is the new set an improvement over last year's model?

Ken Golden

tokerblue

04-14-05, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by navychop
What was I thinking? It certainly DOES look better with gamma off.

> Did you get a chance to test the Digital Noise setting on Finding Nemo or The Incredibles?

Tom_Bombadil

04-14-05, 01:23 AM

The color fringing in those photos may be CA, but it also looks like it could be misconvergence. Like the blue gun/beam could be shifted a bit.

Now if the lines were perfectly white in the center but showing color shifts on the edges, then CA could be the culprit.

If it were off due to misconvergence that would be a bear, as it is very difficult to realign these sets.

videobruce

04-14-05, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Vikingmd
videobruce the problem is that the CA could be from the camera taking the photos not the set. Hey, I try to be an optimist. My mistake about the exchange. I was responding to 3 posts and got one mixed up.
This is what I was referring to for the exchange;

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=235649

That's no CA or camera problem that I ever saw before.

kfeltes; is that what you saw up close, that smear of color around text? To me, it sure looks as to be a terrible chroma delay issue. This was with a digital input? Could you try a VGA/component input and post a pic?

The CA issue was those pics that sure looked as CA;

http://www.kodakgallery.com/PhotoView.jsp?Uc=krxrxvb.z563qbb&Uy=dlqvat&Upost_signin=BrowsePhotos.jsp%3FshowSlide%3Dtrue&Ux=0&collid=76499964407&photoid=46310074407

Havic

04-14-05, 10:00 AM

Having had my 61Z786 for two days now and still trying to decide how best to utilize it. I have a couple of questions right off the bat.

1. I would like to use the TV's speaker for my center channel. I have a JVC receiver that has a coaxial preamp center channel and the TV has a coaxial connector for center channel. Is that how I'm to pull this off? I saw some options in the TV’s setup menu about center channel but not sure if they really mean what I think they mean.

2. Even though the TV has a VGA port, and even though I could (and am at the moment) connect my HTPC to the TV via component. Is it possible to connect my HTPC via HDMI to the 61Z786? What is exact resolution and frequency I should be trying to match so the TV will recognize the signal?

Thanks

tokerblue

04-14-05, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Havic
1. I would like to use the TV's speaker for my center channel. I have a JVC receiver that has a coaxial preamp center channel and the TV has a coaxial connector for center channel. Is that how I'm to pull this off? I saw some options in the TV’s setup menu about center channel but not sure if they really mean what I think they mean.
> What kind of speakers are you using now? Unless they're terrible speakers, you should probably let your receiver create a phantom center from the left and right speaker. The TV makes quite a horrible center channel.

FLBuckeye

04-14-05, 11:24 AM

Has anyone tried to get into the service menu on the new sets? I was wondering if it is the same remote key sequence as last years models.

hifiaudio2

04-14-05, 11:30 AM

I didnt use a generator, those were just Video Essentials patterns.

So the concensus is that the problems are some that *might* be corrected by exchanging the set? I can still do so.......

I dont notice the misconvergence / CA on dvds practically at all.

THe only other issue: I do see a slight bowing of the images when displaying 4:3 material.

hifiaudio2

04-14-05, 11:36 AM

I think I will ahve HH Gregg exchange it anyway.....

Those service codes would be great if anyone has them...

hifiaudio2

04-14-05, 11:39 AM

I just called them and they want to send out a tech first - that should be a real adventure......

At least maybe I can get the service codes from him....

jfreites

04-14-05, 12:02 PM

Hello I have being following this thread because I am interested to buy the 61Z886/786.

To enter the Servive Manual of last year models follow this:

4. SERVICE MENU setting
Before entering the SERVICE MENU, confirm that the setting
of TV/CATV SW of the REMOTE CONTROL UNIT is at the
"TV" side and the setting of VCR/DVD SW of the REMOTE
CONTROL UNIT is at the "VCR" side. If the switches have not
been properly set, you cannot enter the SERVICE MENU.
1) Press [SLEEP TIMER] key and while the indication of
SLEEP TIMER 0 MIN is being displayed, press
[DISPLAY] key and [VIDEO STATUS] key (Fig.2)
simultaneously.
2) The SERVICE MENU screen of Fig.1 is displayed.
3) Verify what to set in the SERVICE MENU, and set
whatever is necessary (Fig.1).
Refer to the SERVICE ADJUSTMENT for setting.
4) Press the [BACK] key to return the SERVICE MENU.

Vikingmd

04-14-05, 12:04 PM

"The CA issue was those pics that sure looked as CA;

http://www.kodakgallery.com/PhotoVi...oid=46310074407"

That's what I was referring to as well.

navychop

04-14-05, 12:41 PM

Havic:
"I would like to use the TV's speaker for my center channel. I have a JVC receiver that has a coaxial preamp center channel and the TV has a coaxial connector for center channel. Is that how I'm to pull this off? "

STOP! That is an RCA input- standard analog speaker connection, not a digital coax connection. You would connect your receiver's center channel out there. Read The Fine Manual, page 58. I think you'll decide not to use the TV as a center speaker. If you ever listen to surround sound music with the TV off, you won't hook up the TV as center speaker- it won't work w/TV off or without a video signal.

"Is it possible to connect my HTPC via HDMI to the 61Z786? "

JVC says no, no support. Others are doing this, or trying.

"What is exact resolution and frequency I should be trying to match so the TV will recognize the signal?"

Welcome to the bleeding edge and ALL the fun there is to be had as a pioneer!

I have connected my laptop using the VGA connector, set to 1024x768 @ 60 MHz. I'm quite happy with the results. The 4:3 ratio on the screen is fine and it is quite usable for word processing and surfing. I'll attach a word processing example below.

I have learned that my ability to take a closeup macro shot of the TV screen is somewhat lacking. I'll have to practice more to get usable shots. Plus, I currently have to angle the camera up a bit on it's tripod to take photos.

I'll sort thru and maybe post a few more, or learn how to get a very close up shot of the CA, if that's what it is. I must emphasize, it's only about a pixel or so wide and certainly is not visible while watching. I'll try to get a better focus. And some shots make the magenta on the screen look blue. And some shots show color artifacts that aren't there by eyeball.

It appears to me that the 4:3 image sides are bowed, so I checked with a straight edge. On my set at least, they are not bowed, it's my imagination.

Ken Golden, your review was dead on. Certainly a better set. And if the 1080s are even better, great. For those with the cash. If I waited for a 1080, I'd go with the 70" model for the size and memory card slots. And that, I figure, would cost me about twice what I paid for my 61Z786. I'll bet a 61" 1080 will cost $1200-$1500 more than my 61Z786.

I've done more comparisons of the JVC tuner and the ATI HDTV Wonder tuner in my HTPC. It seems the ATI is in fact the better tuner. I can sometimes pull in 30-1 & 30-2 on the ATI but not on the JVC. So far, I have never received either station on the JVC but not on the ATI. These are not stations I watch and are not always available anyway.

I'll try to get to answering other questions later on, maybe tonight.

Sketcha

04-14-05, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Havic
Having had my 61Z786 for two days now and still trying to decide how best to utilize it. I have a couple of questions right off the bat.

1. I would like to use the TV's speaker for my center channel. I have a JVC receiver that has a coaxial preamp center channel and the TV has a coaxial connector for center channel. Is that how I'm to pull this off? I saw some options in the TV’s setup menu about center channel but not sure if they really mean what I think they mean.

Thanks

Gotta' say I've never seen that before. A center channel input. Went to the JVC site... sure enough, it's there.

Why not try it? I would think your assumptions on how to pull it off are correct. Let us know how it works out.

jfreites

04-14-05, 12:56 PM

I bought the HD51Z585 from Brandsmart on December 15 and by the end of January they took it to repair shop because the Tech who came to my house could not fix the slightly rotation of the screen counterclock.
After two months they told me they exchange the light engine tree times and couldn't fix the problem, so I could exchange it for any other model or brand. Then again I start all the research again (very stressfull but exciting). By the time they have my JVC, I bought for a month a 44" DLP RPTV Toshiba, very nice, but the image was too dark for me, color too soft and the same pixalation I saw on my JVC on some channels also was on this set and worse, that means is the feefing that creates it and not the TV.
What is my conclusion, again back to JVC, call me crazy, but I beleive HD-ILA is the best RPTV, for the technology, size and picture for your money. Non of them (DLP,LCD,Plasma,LCOS) are perfect but these JVC sets, at this time, are very close.
That is why I am waiting for Brandsmart to get the new HD61Z886/786 to buy it (upgrading from 52" to 61"), why Brandsmart again?, because besides they have very hot prices and close to my house, they just made me a Credit on paper, I must exchange the TV with them.
I have the Service Manual of last year models, if some of you whan to access the Service Menu or twist even more (do not know if works for the new ones), please send me your email address.
Enjoy
Enjoy all of you that already have or are plam

swenjj

04-14-05, 01:00 PM

navy, my first thought on seeing a 4x3 image was it looks bowed, i wonder why it looks like that?

it is straight though, just some weird illusion i guess

lorenzow

04-14-05, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by navychop
I have connected my laptop using the VGA connector, set to 1024x768 @ 60 MHz. I'm quite happy with the results. The 4:3 ratio on the screen is fine and it is quite usable for word processing and surfing. I'll attach a word processing example below.

Navy, have you tried changing your aspect to full for the PC input? (manual page 75) If so, how well does it stretch? (ugly?)

I'm interested in buying this TV for playing PC games and I'm kind of disappointed to read that PC's normal aspect is 4:3.

Thanks,

Larry

navychop

04-14-05, 01:13 PM

swenjj:
Yes, the shot looks bowed, camera was low and left of image, angled to screen. It does not look like that to my eyes. That's why I say I've got to learn how to take better and more accurate pictures.

lorenzow:
I think that IS the full mode setting. But now I'll have to check again tonight to see for sure, and try other settings. And maybe post more (misleading) pictures. The 4:3 is via VGA. This set only supports two settings, 1024x768 & 640x480 (I think).

hsm3

04-14-05, 01:13 PM

So the concensus is that the problems are some that *might* be corrected by exchanging the set? I can still do so.......

I briefly had one of last years DILAs as part of my TV search. It was a fairly late build, like Jan05 or Feb 05. The CA was pretty bad, a bit worse than yours. I also looked at 4-5 of the same model at difference stores, and with white titles on a dark background you could see they all had it. Judging from what we've heard and seen about the new models, I bet this crop will all have it to some degree also. I don't think the quality of the optics vary so much that some would be completely without it.

I dont notice the misconvergence / CA on dvds practically at all.

I think this is the $64 question - Does it matter for anything but test patterns from 2 feet away? For the set I had in my house, from viewing distance, I felt the focus was not sharp enough outside the center region of the screen. I suspect this was due to the CA, which gets worse as you move out from some center point where the optics are correct. On the other hand, some people love the DILAs. I like sharp, DLP-style displays, and others like smoother, film-like displays. In the end you have to decide if a technical flaw like CA really matters for your viewing experience.

Kid Red

04-14-05, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by swenjj
navy, my first thought on seeing a 4x3 image was it looks bowed, i wonder why it looks like that?

it is straight though, just some weird illusion i guess

Maybe the exact reason black bars are better? Just you thinking they bow is reason to not like grey bars because they distract from viewing. Disappointing they didn't change that.

swenjj

04-14-05, 01:18 PM

swenjj

04-14-05, 01:21 PM

what is the deal with the bar color? i had black bars, but i think at first they were grey, does it matter what signal you are recieving?

navychop

04-14-05, 01:46 PM

swenjj: Yes. Some stations send their 4:3 images as 16:9 with black bars on the sides.

Pictures: These aren't good, but they'll give you an idea. I put up a circle from the THX setup on DVD. On the right side of the screen, on the right side of the circle, you can see the inside of the circle is magenta and the outside is green, but only for a pixel or so in width. In some pics the magenta looks blue, but it is in fact magenta. The left side of the circle does not have this color error/CA.

Right side of the circle up close.

navychop

04-14-05, 01:48 PM

Right side of circle, back a bit. Note that these colors are not noticeable from any distance.

navychop

04-14-05, 01:49 PM

And back a bit more:

navychop

04-14-05, 01:51 PM

The left side of the circle, on the left side of the screen, is all white. This pic makes it seem there's a bit of color, but there is not, to the eye.

navychop

04-14-05, 01:53 PM

The bottom of the circle, at the bottom of the screen, shows some magenta on top and green on the bottom. Note that the top of the circle is all white.

navychop

04-14-05, 01:54 PM

And for your viewing enjoyment. Brightness across the screen is even- my shot does not show this properly.

navychop

04-14-05, 01:55 PM

A screen showing that there is no banding. I will later try to find another shot that I can get a better closeup of.

navychop

04-14-05, 01:57 PM

And a last color shot for now.

Sketcha

04-14-05, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by navychop
Havic:
"I would like to use the TV's speaker for my center channel. I have a JVC receiver that has a coaxial preamp center channel and the TV has a coaxial connector for center channel. Is that how I'm to pull this off? "

STOP! That is an RCA input- standard analog speaker connection, not a digital coax connection. You would connect your receiver's center channel out there. Read The Fine Manual, page 58. I think you'll decide not to use the TV as a center speaker. If you ever listen to surround sound music with the TV off, you won't hook up the TV as center speaker- it won't work w/TV off or without a video signal.

Good point, Navy but I think he was simply mis-stating. I doubt the receiver has a digital coax out marked "center" nor a coax in for center on the TV. I'm sure he meant RCA for both.

Sketcha

04-14-05, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by navychop
swenjj:
Yes, the shot looks bowed, camera was low and left of image, angled to screen. It does not look like that to my eyes. That's why I say I've got to learn how to take better and more accurate pictures.

lorenzow:
I think that IS the full mode setting. But now I'll have to check again tonight to see for sure, and try other settings. And maybe post more (misleading) pictures. The 4:3 is via VGA. This set only supports two settings, 1024x768 & 640x480 (I think).

Navy,

I'm guessing you have a moderately priced digital with a zoom lens.

Try taking your shots with the zoom in the middle of it's focal range.

ex.

For a 35-70 lens, zoom to 50-ish.

Most zoom lenses, even fairly expensive ones will display some barrel distortion at the wide angle. And most people just turn the camera on and shoot... where it IS at the widest angle. I'd recommend doing this for all shots that don't require you to zoom in or out.

Havic

04-14-05, 02:12 PM

1. I would like to use the TV's speaker for my center channel. I have a JVC receiver that has a coaxial preamp center channel and the TV has a coaxial connector for center channel. Is that how I'm to pull this off? I saw some options in the TV’s setup menu about center channel but not sure if they really mean what I think they mean.

Originally posted by Sketcha
Good point, Navy but I think he was simply mis-stating. I doubt the receiver has a digital coax out marked "center" nor a coax in for center on the TV. I'm sure he meant RCA for both.

Yes, I'm sorry I did mean RCA.

Kid Red

04-14-05, 03:17 PM

So far new sets still have CA (a lot of sets do, CRTs for sure), tho it looks different (magenta and aqua rather then green and purple), still has grey bars but now has no color banding. What about grain? Some feeds just seem a tad grainy, tho it is the JVC pronouncing the grain more then anything. Has the new models cleaned up some of the accentuated noise? And we don't know if the grey scale has improved yet.

hifiaudio2

04-14-05, 03:43 PM

Does Colorfacts work well with RPTV DILA?

navychop

04-14-05, 04:17 PM

Since most versions of Colorfacts cost more than the RPTV itself- maybe you should ask an ISF calibrator. Or contact Milori and ask them. I've never read any posts here where someone used it.

swenjj

04-14-05, 04:44 PM

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/swenjj/album?.dir=2517&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/swenjj/my_photos

hey , check out these pics again, mainly jvc3, the shipping company called and said there is no damage to the tv, that is just the obvious damage, they are trying to make tv authority pay for it,,

i am trying to call them now but i thought this was sort of funny, because i took pictures of it

BradJudy

04-14-05, 04:50 PM

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the green/magenta split that can be seen is likely the result of the anti-reflective coating (this can be seen in a number of optics settings including the glasses I wear).

Jim Clark

04-14-05, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by swenjj
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/swenjj/album?.dir=2517&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/swenjj/my_photos

hey , check out these pics again, mainly jvc3, the shipping company called and said there is no damage to the tv, that is just the obvious damage, they are trying to make tv authority pay for it,,

i am trying to call them now but i thought this was sort of funny, because i took pictures of it

It looks like the box fell over flat on its back, the weight of the screen(s) caused them to bend. Because the box fell flat on its back, the impact was spread out over the whole back side of the box so the box didn't show any significant damage but the TV was obviously damaged. There is no way to determine where this happened, in shipment from the original manufacturer, at TVAuthority's warehouse, in shipment from TVAuthority to you, or in your living room. It could be a real pain-in-the-butt for you, everybody is going to point fingers. The last shipper will point at you, TVA will point at the shipper to you, the manufacturer will point at the shipper to TVA or TVA themselves. Unfortunately, when you signed the delivery receipt, it probably had a clause that said you had thoroughly inspected the package and contents and they were OK. Good luck.

Jim

Kid Red

04-14-05, 06:15 PM

swenjj- So unfortunate, I hope you get it worked out. Your case is the very reason why I'd be too nervous to buy online something of this size and expense.

swenjj

04-14-05, 07:39 PM

i dont have to pay anything , the shipping company was trying to get tva to pay for shipping , but the photos helped he said,

i figure i may as well have it shipped because it could as easily get broken in my truck as theirs, but this way i get a new one if it is,

jim and kid red, i should add i already got my new tv again, tva was right on it and it only took a couple more days to take care of this

hifiaudio2

04-14-05, 08:44 PM

You can rent colorfacts for a month for $299.

They also state that they dont mind if you share it.

So get 4 or 5 people that want to calibrate and you have something affordable.

navychop

04-14-05, 10:20 PM

Not bad, but I think if I went that far, for a bit more, I'd just get an ISF cal, from someone who knows what they're doing. No need for me to learn another system that I'll use just once.

kfeltes

04-14-05, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by videobruce
[B]My mistake about the exchange. I was responding to 3 posts and got one mixed up.
This is what I was referring to for the exchange;

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=235649

That's no CA or camera problem that I ever saw before.

kfeltes; is that what you saw up close, that smear of color around text? To me, it sure looks as to be a terrible chroma delay issue. This was with a digital input? Could you try a VGA/component input and post a pic?

--- Yes, that's what I saw around the text. It was really noticeable when I got close, < 1' away (took the picture). From > 10' it wasn't "that" noticeable. The connection is dvi-2-hdmi so it's on the digital-in. There was a difference when I used native resolution vs. underscan by 8% (native was better).

I unfortunately don't have a vga-2-component converter so I can't test that. I haven't found a local store that carries one. I am looking and will hopefully find one locally and soon.

I am also going to try an ATI 9600 instead of the Nvidia 5200.

I actually have a test plan put together for this (dead time while flying).

I'm wondering if this could be more of a driver issue....

hsm3

04-14-05, 11:22 PM

--- Yes, that's what I saw around the text. It was really noticeable when I got close, < 1' away (took the picture). From > 10' it wasn't "that" noticeable. The connection is dvi-2-hdmi so it's on the digital-in. There was a difference when I used native resolution vs. underscan by 8% (native was better).

I unfortunately don't have a vga-2-component converter so I can't test that. I haven't found a local store that carries one. I am looking and will hopefully find one locally and soon.

I am also going to try an ATI 9600 instead of the Nvidia 5200.

I actually have a test plan put together for this (dead time while flying).

I'm wondering if this could be more of a driver issue....

Here's an idea for this problem: Windows and Mac OSX both have a clever feature designed to increase text rendering quality on LCD displays (desktop or laptop). On PC LCD displays, the red, green, blue sub-pixel elements are slightly offset from each other. The idea is that if you are drawing anti-aliased text and you want to make a piece of a letter to look as if it's positioned a bit more to the left (let's say), you draw that piece with a red shade, since the red piece of the pixel is on the left of the green and blue pieces. If it's done right, the slight coloring of the text is not noticeable, but you get smoother looking text.

When the CPU is doing this improperly for a device, you end up seeing lots of pieces of color hanging all over your text. Maybe that's what you're seeing? Perhaps you could find the switch somewhere in XP that would turn this feature off. I don't remember what it's called under XP - look for something like "text smoothing" or "optimize for LCD display".