Originally posted by boristhedog
Still no 8.1 with Radio shack antenna. However, I was just propping it up on the upstairs landing for now. My other UHF antenna (outside) gets 16 channels (including 27.1), but no ABC. I did not try the Radio Shack VHF/UHF outside yet since its rainnig, but that will be my last attempt. I'm going to try mounting it on the same pole as my UHF antenna...and if that doesn't work, then I guess nothing will.

I understand WFAA is VHF channel 9, but it still shows up as 8.1 when "scanned" right?

Correct, does show up as 8.1..

Looks like we too are in the same boat. I get all but ABC HD also. But was 1 week ago, strange..

Since WFAA started broadcasting 8.3 I have noticed a slight decrease in signal lock with my E* 811. Was around 82-84% but now is locking in at 79-81%. For some reason, it almost seems that HD OTA signals tend to meander a tad bit. It took me almost a month of constant adjusting of my Terk 55 before I was able to NBC to lock in - but it cost me PBS most of the time. Tuning in all OTA HD channels can definitely be a challenge!

OK....I FINALLY GOT 8.1, 8.2, 8.3 by mounting the Radio Shack VHF/UHF 75XR outside where the DB4 was!!! It cost me channel 27-1. However, I'm going to try using both my DB4 (which I got everything but 8.1 etc.) AND the Radio Shack mounted on the same pole. Problem is...I need to move the bracket since it's in the way of my dish. No time today....I'll do it tomorrow, but it looks like I'll be good for MNF!!!

Hey all. I live down in the Lakewood area and went to Radio Shack several months ago for a new antenna. At Radio Shack that had a area diagram that showed the type of antenna you would need for different parts of the area. Interstingly, if you drew a line from the majority of the antennas south west of town to my house, the downtown area is in a direct line and cast a "shadow" (of poorer reception) over my neighborhood.. As a result, the chart said that I needed a stronger antenna. I also consulted Antennaweb.org and looked up all of the channels. According to that site, I needed a "purple antenna" with a pre-amp to pull in FOX. Everything else should go okay without an amplifier.

The house I live in is 30+ years old. The prior owner had an areal antenna. Where the antenna was hooked to the wire that fed into the house, the prior owner went from coaxial on the antenna to a two-wire flat antenna wire through the attic. He then has an old Radio Shack Amplifier hooked up (that takes the two wire antenna and outputs to another two wire antenna wire) that goes across the attic and down the wall to the wall plate.

Here is my problem. I cannot get a consistent signal on FOX. Trying to watch the Cowboys game today my signal went anywhere from a 55-72 score. (I have a Pioneer Plasma and the OTA tuner is in the box.) ABC and CBS regularly score in the low 80s and high 70s and I never have any problem with any of them. When the signal strength is in the low 60s, that is when the artifacting begins.

The amplifier in the attic works. If I unplug it, all my antenna signals are in the single digits. Am I suffering because of the two-wire antenna wire? Does that make a difference? Should I swap out all the wire to some type of coaxial wire? (Take into account the total beating that would be to rewire everything.) Could it be a matter of aiming? When I set up the antenna before, I made sure that the antenna got good scores on ABC, CBS, NBC, but what not worried about FOX because FOX was still fake-HDTV.

Rewiring in the last resort. Today all of the amplifiers that RS has are coaxial. I could put converters on the two-wire antenna wire, but would't that just degrade the signal more? Any thoughts?

Many thanks in advance.

Matt

Originally posted by Matt Cleaves
Rewiring in the last resort. Today all of the amplifiers that RS has are coaxial. I could put converters on the two-wire antenna wire, but would't that just degrade the signal more? Any thoughts?


Did you say your antenna is on the roof? I'm afraid you problem might be the twin flat lead wire (300 ohm vs. 75ohm coax). IMHO coax throughout greatly improves signal quality. Also, a quote from my Mits. DLP manual with built-in OTA tuner... "Mitsubishi strongly reccomends against using antennas with twin flat leads. Twin flat lead antenna wires are subject to interference which may adversely affect the performance.....recommend using coaxal antenna cable."

You might consider rewiring. Funny....I have an RS amplifier and I get 1 less channel when I use it so I pulled it out. Good luck.

...having someone from a home theater store come out and look at the wiring? Or is that just a waste of money? Do they have antenna experts?

Matt

Originally posted by Matt Cleaves
...having someone from a home theater store come out and look at the wiring? Or is that just a waste of money? Do they have antenna experts?

Matt

I guess...if you don't think you can do it yourself.

Why don't you just try connecting a single coax cable from your antenna to the tuner and re-scan. Don't worry about routing the cable through walls or attics yet, just run it across the house, out the window, down the attic door, whatever.....just see if that will improve your reception. If it does, then you can worry about routing the cable so it looks nice.

Craig... I'm wondering why you've been having so many problems. Where exactly in Allen are you? I'm just north of Alma and Mcdermott, and although weak, I get 8.1 and 27.x no problem with the $21 RS UHF antenna in the attic.

My 8.1 does have occassioanl dropouts, so I'll be switching to the $25 UHF/VHF at Frys (have been waiting for cooler temps!). I did add a cheapy amp just to help my 8.1 dropouts.

Originally posted by MikeN
Craig... I'm wondering why you've been having so many problems. Where exactly in Allen are you? I'm just north of Alma and Mcdermott, and although weak, I get 8.1 and 27.x no problem with the $21 RS UHF antenna in the attic.


Twin Creeks. Argh...I don't know why...I mean, I've finally solved the problem with a sledge hammer (2 antennas on the roof) but it doesn't seem right. The only thing I may try is a smaller VHF, maybe in the attic but I've had NO luck with antennas in the attic. I get every channel known to man right now, so I may leave it alone. The antennas are pretty obnoxious, but you can only see them from the alley.

For some reason, my OTA tuner (Samsung 360 HD) doesn't report signal strength (unless I'm just missing it).

Yea, you are right behind me... Not being able to check your signal strength, it's very possible you just dont have it pointed properly yet. On my Samsung, I can check strength, but it's done per channel. I dont recall the exact place in the menu it's hiding, but it's there :)

Originally posted by MikeN
Yea, you are right behind me... Not being able to check your signal strength, it's very possible you just dont have it pointed properly yet. On my Samsung, I can check strength, but it's done per channel. I dont recall the exact place in the menu it's hiding, but it's there :)

Hmmm, I'll look for for the signal strength menu option tonight. Granted, I used a cheap keychain compass to point my antenna(s) in the direction according to antennaweb.org (196-199 degrees), but I thought there was at least a 90 degree....I guess it could need more fine tuning.

Thanks.

I have found that with the Terk 55 you have to be right on with the pointing. There is very little room for any deviation. Even being off 2 degrees will cost me a channel. The joys of a directional antenna.

I live in Flower Mound and have a Sam SIR 165 OTA HD tuner connected to a Sony HS 10. My HT is located in a room on the second floor of my house. Upon initial setup, in order to view HD programs right away, I used a RS amplified indoor UHF-VHF antenna. I was able to receive most stations, but had to rotate the antenna for each channel. In addition, people movement in the room would affect reception. I then installed a RS VU-90 all channel outdoor antenna in the attic with a 100' run of coaxial cable. I could now receive fewer channels, but with no interference problems. Back to RS, where I purchased a mast mounted signal preamplifier. WOW!! All Dallas area digital channels are received all of the time.

Am I missing anything with not pulling in 27-1??? That is the only channel, I think, that I cannot get.

Rangers' games? :rolleyes:

Other than an occasional Ranger game (which is not in HD), you are not missing anything I can think of. As long as you can get 4-1, 5-1, 8-1, 11-1, and 13-1 (and that is debatable), you are pretty golden regarding HD.

Originally posted by bavaria72
Other than an occasional Ranger game (which is not in HD), you are not missing anything I can think of. As long as you can get 4-1, 5-1, 8-1, 11-1, and 13-1 (and that is debatable), you are pretty golden regarding HD.
For some of us, UPN and WB are pretty important also and they do both broadcast in HD.

And you are absolutely correct. I forgot about 21-1 and 33-1. My kids would kill me:D

Any idea if we will see Mavericks games in HD from D* again this year????

Haven't seen any announcements on the Mavs site with a schedule.

Hi,
I am watching the NLCS on Fox OTA on my Mits WD-62725 now, in Dolby, and ever so often I am hearing a sound, sort of like a little zapping sound - but not all that sharp, and the picture sort of freaks out. The score line at the top appears briefly toward the bottom, the pic is just kind of mixed up, then it straightens up. It has probably happened 20 times or more, so far. Is anybody else seeing this kind of behavior? I am trying to decide if it is broadcast or hardware related...

Thanks!
Randy

Clear as a whistle out here in Rockwall.

Originally posted by IFLYSWA
Hi,
I am watching the NLCS on Fox OTA on my Mits WD-62725 now, in Dolby, and ever so often I am hearing a sound, sort of like a little zapping sound - but not all that sharp, and the picture sort of freaks out. The score line at the top appears briefly toward the bottom, the pic is just kind of mixed up, then it straightens up. It has probably happened 20 times or more, so far. Is anybody else seeing this kind of behavior? I am trying to decide if it is broadcast or hardware related...

Thanks!
Randy


Must be the broadcast because I have had the same issue for both the NL and AL games today.

Noticing this also. Seems to happen when they switch cameras during the action.

Anyone else have issues with the OTA Fox game tonight?? Haven't changed anything and ad trouble keeping a locked signal. Glad I had the FOX HD from D* as a back up to watch the games.

Originally posted by Tonedeaf
Anyone else have issues with the OTA Fox game tonight?? Haven't changed anything and ad trouble keeping a locked signal. Glad I had the FOX HD from D* as a back up to watch the games.

Yessir...I wasn't on there until the last inning of the 'Stros game, but it was definitely weaker than it has been lately. I had to sit in one place in my living room to keep from interfering with the signal...

Randy

Clear as a whistle out here in Rowlett also..Never seen such a great picture! Problem is....I cant leave my TV anymore!
I pick up all the OTA channels and they all look great...

Cody

Hey all ...

I am new to HD and this forum.

I am wondering if anyone has any experience with antenna installations in the Dallas area. I am beyond the age of ladders, etc, and need someone to assist installing on a second story home and also to run the wire, etc.

Also, do trees affect reception? The ideal place on my home would be near a large shrub. I have heard about metal and buildings, but not so much if nature also blocks decent reception.

Originally posted by Uncle Churtle
Hey all ...

I am new to HD and this forum.

I am wondering if anyone has any experience with antenna installations in the Dallas area. I am beyond the age of ladders, etc, and need someone to assist installing on a second story home and also to run the wire, etc.

Also, do trees affect reception? The ideal place on my home would be near a large shrub. I have heard about metal and buildings, but not so much if nature also blocks decent reception.

Welcome Uncle Churtle!

I'm would guess that some of the local HT stores (maybe not CC or BB, but like StarPower or The Home Theater Store) would do an antenna install for you, but I have no idea how much it would cost. Or, if you plan on getting DirecTV HD, they have an option where they will install an OTA antenna while they do you dish (for around $50 more).

I did my own 2nd story antenna install with a pole mount kit from Home Depot and a spool of coax and some connectors.It was pretty easy, so another option would be to simply buy all the parts and maybe have a "handy man" type guy do the labor for you (might be less expensive than a "professional home theater expert").

No real experience with trees or shrubs (I have a pretty clear LOS)....I'd guess you'd experience some signal loss or ghosting, but not much. Check out antennaweb.org FAQ's for more info. Good luck!

Originally posted by MikeN
Craig... I'm wondering why you've been having so many problems. Where exactly in Allen are you? I'm just north of Alma and Mcdermott, and although weak, I get 8.1 and 27.x no problem with the $21 RS UHF antenna in the attic.

My 8.1 does have occassioanl dropouts, so I'll be switching to the $25 UHF/VHF at Frys (have been waiting for cooler temps!). I did add a cheapy amp just to help my 8.1 dropouts.

I live in Denton and have been receiving 8.1 and 27.1 with no problems for a year. In the last week or so I lose 8.1 and 27.1 but only in the evening.

Any ideas as to why?

FYI, The Comcast Mot. 6412 is now available in the Dallas area. I live in Frisco and went to pick mine up today over in Lewisville... Works great... Finally a dual tuner HD DVR.....Sweeeeet.

Originally posted by Scotty6595
FYI, The Comcast Mot. 6412 is now available in the Dallas area. I live in Frisco and went to pick mine up today over in Lewisville... Works great... Finally a dual tuner HD DVR.....Sweeeeet.

Dangit! I called them today to check on this and they told me (hopefully)by the end of November. I think I'll call again...thanks for the info!

BTW, can you tell us which guide they are using here? I am pretty sure that it will be the new iGuide (I think that's it), but just thought I would check. The guy I talked to today (very nice and really tried to be helpful, by the way) said they haven't even had a meeting about these boxes yet...

Randy

Yes, it is the new IGuide and it is mucho better than the legacy guide. Not to piss in your cherrios IFLYSWA but "Kcharg" over at Broadband forums (he works for comcast) stated that any system that is a dual coax system will be waiting a while for an addon to accomodate the dual drops required for these boxes... Sorry... Hope I'm wrong though. I am posting the link to that forum below... There is alot of good info about what comcast is doing in that thread... Check it out. Kcharg's comments are about half way down the page....

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8161587~mode=flat~days=9999~start=1200

Originally posted by Scotty6595
Yes, it is the new IGuide and it is mucho better than the legacy guide. Not to piss in your cherrios IFLYSWA but "Kcharg" over at Broadband forums (he works for comcast) stated that any system that is a dual coax system will be waiting a while for an addon to accomodate the dual drops required for these boxes... Sorry... Hope I'm wrong though.

That makes sense. I can't tell you how 'great' it is to live with that dual coax thing....ugh. The funny thing is that the guy I talked to there didn't know where I lived at that point. I asked that question first, and after he told me November I asked about why I don't get the INHD channels. Then I mentioned Plano, and he said they were working on INHD. Oh well, I guess I'll get it when I get it. I'll read the thread you sent me...thanks!

Randy

Any idea whether the cable HD channels are in the clear? My TV has a cable tuner, and I have a FusionHDTV with a cable tuner as well. But if they encrypt the channels, neither can receive them directly (I believe it's the law that they leave the locals unencrypted, but I'm more curious about ESPN-HD, Discover-HD, etc.).

Xesdeeni

I have two ATSC tuners and get all digital channels flawlessly on both, including 4-1, 5-1, 11-1 and 13-1, etc, etc. This weekend both tuners 'lost' channel 8-1 and 8-2. Both of the tuners continuously 'search' but come up empty. I live in Flower Mound if that matters. Is anyone else having problems or is it just me? I can't believe both of my tuners went bad all of a sudden just on channel 8-1.

I live in McKinney and have not experianced any problems receiving channel 8.

Originally posted by billt1111
I have two ATSC tuners and get all digital channels flawlessly on both, including 4-1, 5-1, 11-1 and 13-1, etc, etc. This weekend both tuners 'lost' channel 8-1 and 8-2. Both of the tuners continuously 'search' but come up empty. I live in Flower Mound if that matters. Is anyone else having problems or is it just me? I can't believe both of my tuners went bad all of a sudden just on channel 8-1.

Oddly enough, last night was the first time I was able to get Channel 8-1 to any extent in the three weeks or so that I've had my HDTV. It wasn't perfect, but I had better luck than before. I am using an amplified indoor antenna and show to be 30-35 miles from the towers.

-Randy

Originally posted by davidftuel
I live in Flower Mound and have a Sam SIR 165 OTA HD tuner connected to a Sony HS 10. My HT is located in a room on the second floor of my house. Upon initial setup, in order to view HD programs right away, I used a RS amplified indoor UHF-VHF antenna. I was able to receive most stations, but had to rotate the antenna for each channel. In addition, people movement in the room would affect reception. I then installed a RS VU-90 all channel outdoor antenna in the attic with a 100' run of coaxial cable. I could now receive fewer channels, but with no interference problems. Back to RS, where I purchased a mast mounted signal preamplifier. WOW!! All Dallas area digital channels are received all of the time.

David,

I live in Flower Mound as well and for 6 months I have received all of the digital channels flawlessly with 70% - 90% RF signal strength. Until now. I have now lost 8-1 and 8-2. I have a low profile, compact, Winegard UHF only antenna, http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/pr-4400.pdf, and it was working GREAT until this last weekend. Now the lone VHF channel is just gone. I guess I am off to RS. Which model of RF preamp did you buy?

WHY DIDN'T ABC CHOOSE A UHF CHANNEL FOR DIGITAL LIKE EVERYONE ELSE?!!!

Another interesting tidbit of info about WFAA digital transmission power relative to others in the area from http://www.transmitter.com/FCC98315/TXatwch.html

Ch 4/35 - 1000 kw at 511'
Ch 8/9 - 21.5 kw at 512'
Ch 5/41 - 1000 kw at 514'
Ch 11/19- 552 kw at 509'
Ch 27/36 -280 kw at 515'

The FCC limits RF effective radiated power for VHF frequencies much more aggressively since it is not necessarily line-of-sight and tends to bend over the horizon, causing co-channel interference at much greater distances. However the difference in radiated power is quite significant between ch 9 and all the others in the area.

Originally posted by billt1111
David,

I live in Flower Mound as well and for 6 months I have received all of the digital channels flawlessly with 70% - 90% RF signal strength. Until now. I have now lost 8-1 and 8-2. I have a low profile, compact, Winegard UHF only antenna, http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/pr-4400.pdf, and it was working GREAT until this last weekend. Now the lone VHF channel is just gone. I guess I am off to RS. Which model of RF preamp did you buy?

WHY DIDN'T ABC CHOOSE A UHF CHANNEL FOR DIGITAL LIKE EVERYONE ELSE?!!!

I never had any luck getting channel 8 with a UHF only antenna (West Allen). I have had no problems getting all the channels since I added a combo VHF/UHF antenna (no amp). This weekend, still good no problems.

My signal strength always bounces between 40-60%, but I have no problems with reception so I have not been motivated to re-position the antenna(s) for better strength...although I want to try it someday just to see.

And yes.....WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH WFAA!!!!! GET WITH THE PROGRAM AND GO UHF ALREADY!!!

Very interesting regarding the broadcast power. Is the height for the tower or the transmitter itself?

Ch 4/35 - 1000 kw at 511'
Ch 8/9 - 21.5 kw at 512'
Ch 5/41 - 1000 kw at 514'
Ch 11/19- 552 kw at 509'
Ch 27/36 -280 kw at 515'

Fortunately I get 8.1 in very well. It took me forever to get 5/41 to come in. Literally I ended up moving my antenna down 2 inches on one side and it popped in.

The height stated in the FCC records is HAAT (height above average terrain). Its a kind of meaningless figure except when trying to figure out signal strength in the local area.

For anyone who has been to cedar hill you know that it is up on the hill above Joe Pool Lake. The actual WFAA antenna height above sea level (AMSL) is 2362 feet. For reference my house in Flower Mound is at 479 feet AMSL. There is a 1883 foot drop between the two.

Cedar Hill is at 810 feet AMSL. That means the tower is around 1500 feet tall (2362 - 810).

OK, that makes sense. Drove by those towers for years when I lived in GP so I was a little confused by the heights. I knew that they were on a average 1,500 ft towers. Just out of curiosity, when that tower fell 8 or 10 years ago, was the replacement tower the same height as the one that collapsed?

I remember the tower falling and I remember the construction of the replacement tower. However I personally do not know if the replacement tower was exactly the same height as before or if the replacement antenna was exactly the same height as before. Remember that antennas and towers are not the same thing and the heights are sometimes drastically different. I notice that many people use the terms interchangeably. In fact, there are almost always many antennas on a tower. The height of the antenna, the type of tower, and the side of the tower it is mounted on have dramatic effects on the radiation pattern. However most TV antennas are mounted on the very top, but not always.

Yup, just like cell sites. You can have many different providers on a single tower. Different technologies, different antenna, different coverages all on the same tower. Do the station themselves own the towers or are they owned by a third party and they are renting space on them?

I suppose some TV stations own their own towers but they are just as likely to use a tower company like Pinnacle or Crown Castle. I used to work for a paging company that had more than 10,000 transmitter sites nationwide but only owned 180 towers. Those 180 sites were bought for $180 million in 1999 by Pinnacle. And it was a bargain, given the proliferation of PCS in this country since then. One 1500 foot tower can handle 90 to 100 tons of antenna loading. At $500 to $1000 per month per antenna that is a lot of income. The point is that it's expensive to own a tower, maintain it, and absorb the liability. Its much cheaper to lease space.

Hi everyone,

I live in Grand Prairie and only lessthan 10 miles from the broadcasting towers which are in Cedar Hill. I'm using an outdoor antenna (with LG LST4200A HD receiver and Samsung HL-P5062W) and the signal strength only can get up to midway. Does anyone around in Dallas could get a better signal strength? Any suggestion on the brand and type of atenna?

Thanks!

I don't have an LG STB so I don't know if it is inaccurate like the Samsung 360. However channel 4 and 5 transmit a digital signal at 1 MEGAWATT of power just 10 miles from you. That should be enough. In fact, in Grand Prairie your LG STB your HLP and everything in your house should be glowing in the dark (and in the daylight for that matter). :)

Are any of your digital channels breaking up or pixelating? Or are you just commenting on your signal meter reading?

What channel only gets to midway on the signal meter? What about the rest of them?

Anyone else experiencing a lot of audio drop out on 4-1 right now (Worl Series game)? That is....the digital 5.1 audio. I'm using the digital coax output on my Samsung HD rcvr. into my AVR....it keeps cutting in and out.

The audio seems ok right now. I hear one or two 'ticks' every once in a while. I cannot tell if it is my STB or Fox, however.

Seems to have settled down now....it was doing it on both the Samsung HD sat. tuner and my TV's tuner, so maybe it's Fox. Still a little flakey for me....too bad it's not the Rangers playing (maybe sometime in my life).

Originally posted by boristhedog
....too bad it's not the Rangers playing (maybe sometime in my life).

Interesting concept. I am a Ranger fan as well and I guess its this hope for ultimate success that keeps us coming back every year to watch. The one thing I noticed from these playoffs this year is how much the teams draw upon their fans for intensity and the desire to preservere against all odds. I am not sure Yankee fans even sit down during the game. They are packed in with their Yankee hats like sardines, standing shoulder to shoulder and screaming and clapping. Do you ever see Ranger fans energizing and willing their team to win like the NY, St. Louis, and Boston fans do? Its hard to imagine.

Originally posted by billt1111
Interesting concept. I am a Ranger fan as well and I guess its this hope for ultimate success that keeps us coming back every year to watch. The one thing I noticed from these playoffs this year is how much the teams draw upon their fans for intensity and the desire to preservere against all odds. I am not sure Yankee fans even sit down during the game. They are packed in with their Yankee hats like sardines, standing shoulder to shoulder and screaming and clapping. Do you ever see Ranger fans energizing and willing their team to win like the NY, St. Louis, and Boston fans do? Its hard to imagine.
That's why my 'Stros needed home field advantage.... :(

Randy

I've been to a game at Yankee Stadium.....and you're absolutely correct, it's not like your average, casual, hot dog eating, peanut chomping family good time. It's intense!!! I sat in the right field bleachers.....wow, not like any baseball game I've ever been to.

Just to keep on topic....I'm still getting major audio drop out on 4-1. Could this be a result of poor signal strength? My picture is fine (no drop outs, pixelization). But the audio is in and out...hmmm. I guess this gives me motivation to climb up there try re-pointing my antenna(s).

No audio problems here on 2 different set top boxes.

Originally posted by billt1111
I don't have an LG STB so I don't know if it is inaccurate like the Samsung 360. However channel 4 and 5 transmit a digital signal at 1 MEGAWATT of power just 10 miles from you. That should be enough. In fact, in Grand Prairie your LG STB your HLP and everything in your house should be glowing in the dark (and in the daylight for that matter). :)

Are any of your digital channels breaking up or pixelating? Or are you just commenting on your signal meter reading?

What channel only gets to midway on the signal meter? What about the rest of them?


None of the digital chan. are breaking up or pixelating, I'm just commenting on the signal meter reading.

All channels are only get up to midway on the signal meter, NBC a little bit less, and I could not get 27-1.

haidaovcf.

> Ch 4/35 - 1000 kw at 511'
> Ch 8/9 - 21.5 kw at 512'
> Ch 5/41 - 1000 kw at 514'
> Ch 11/19- 552 kw at 509'
> Ch 27/36 -280 kw at 515'

A couple of points about this list:

1. Those tower heights are above average terrain in meters, not feet. That means that all these stations are above 1600 feet up.

2. Comparing the power level of WFAA-DT against the other stations is deceptive because of the difference in allowable transmitted power between the VHF high band and UHF. Keep in mind that for *analog* broadcasting, the UHF channels are allowed almost 16 times as much power (5 megawatts) when compared to VHF high band (316 kw). If we apply the same factor to digital transmissions, WFAA-DT's is the equivalent of about 340 kw for a UHF station.

Originally posted by boristhedog
Anyone else experiencing a lot of audio drop out on 4-1 right now (Worl Series game)? That is....the digital 5.1 audio. I'm using the digital coax output on my Samsung HD rcvr. into my AVR....it keeps cutting in and out.

I sure did notice it. The signal strength was fluctuating between 68% to 86%. Ping ponging back and forth. It did finally settle down but for a while there is was tough sledding.

Does anyone know why "life as we know it" was not telecast on ABC(WFAA) yesterday even though it appeared on the abc webpage and tvguide?
Was it only in Dallas or national?

Nivas

Those that have reported losing 8.1 in the past couple of weeks, have they come back OR have you done anything to get them back?

I lost 8.1 a couple of weeks ago and previously posted inquires last week. Now I see at least 2 people report losing 8.1 in the past week also.

Thanks in advance..

FYI - I'm in northern plano. Attic RS antenna, pre-amp. I'm considering going to the top of line Winegard Antenna early next week.

Has anyone asked WFAA if they are having problems with their digital feed on 8.1 and 8.2? I lost both as of this morning.

Originally posted by corinthbandit
Has anyone asked WFAA if they are having problems with their digital feed on 8.1 and 8.2? I lost both as of this morning.


Update....yes they are. They are running on a backup tower over the weekend as the main tower is serviced.

Originally posted by corinthbandit
Update....yes they are. They are running on a backup tower over the weekend as the main tower is serviced.

Thanks for the update. I've lost 8.1, 8.2 also. As long as they have it fixed for MNF I'll be happy (since ABC doesn't bother doing college games in HD for some reason?!?!?) CBS does it great.

My understanding is that their main tower is being serviced (actually painted). The analog station is running off of a backup tower, but they don't have a backup tower for the digital station so it just goes off the air.

Hey guys I am in Dallas,TX and I am currently using the HDTV-S Terk broadcast antenna. We have been getting alot of storms lately and everything was working perfectly even during the storms last night, but then I get up this morning and tune to different channels on broadcast. I notice I don't get FOX or ABC 4 and 8 respectively anymore. I am wondering if anyone else is having problems like this or if it is probably my antenna? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!

Originally posted by Cheezmo
My understanding is that their main tower is being serviced (actually painted). The analog station is running off of a backup tower, but they don't have a backup tower for the digital station so it just goes off the air.

Do you know if this is also affecting 4.1? I received all local OTA stations perectly until a couple of weeks ago when all of a sudden I couldn't get 8.1 or 8.2.

I had been running my OTA antenna thru a Terk 5X8 multi-switch. I disconnected the antenna from the multi-switch and connected directly to my TV and it has been working perfect until today. Today I can't get 8.1 or 4.1.

Originally posted by BCS1770
Do you know if this is also affecting 4.1? I received all local OTA stations perectly until a couple of weeks ago when all of a sudden I couldn't get 8.1 or 8.2.

I had been running my OTA antenna thru a Terk 5X8 multi-switch. I disconnected the antenna from the multi-switch and connected directly to my TV and it has been working perfect until today. Today I can't get 8.1 or 4.1.

Well, I just checked again and now both are coming in just fine.

Go figure!

It was all explained here (http://dhtg.napurano.com/forum/tm.asp?m=969).

Tower maintenance today affected WFAA-DT and KDFW-DT.

But that doesn't explain for this of us that has had 8.1 gone for the past 3 weeks. I did called WFAA and the engineer returned my call stating atmospheric interface was my problem. Maybe, but I see other's aren't having a problem with 8.1 in my same area.

I read a couple of weeks back around the time I started having problems is the same time they were trying out a new decoder for 8.3. I think the shutdown the activity, but I never got 8.1 back afterwords.

Nobody has been able to explain why yet.

I'm going to upgrade to a better antenna and HOPE that cures it. R.S. to Winegard...

I lost 8.1 and 8.2 three weeks ago as well in Flower Mound. All other DFW digital stations work fine before and after. Putting a radio shack RF amp on made it intermittent, but proved that it was just a signal strength problem. So i ordered a channel master 7777 amp and will try that when it comes in this week. My antenna is in my attic and I really don't want to install a larger one just to receive MNF and 'Desperate Housewives' in HD. :)

I realize that atmospheric conditions affect VHF propagation drastically. However the weather has not changed THAT much for WFAA to lose that much channel 9 signal strength from before. Something changed that they will not admit.

(Note: Moderator had me repost this question to local area forum here)

Last week, I purchased a Samsung SIR-T451 HD OTA tuner for viewing in Dallas, TX. The picture is great. For sound, I have it connected to a 5.1 Audio Amplifier using Optical Audio. I have a question about the sound...

The sound comes in as 5.1 when watching a HD widescreen 16x9 program and also as 5.1 when watching any HD program (4x3) on channel 4 which is FOX. When watching all other channels such as 5, 8, 11, 13, 21, 27, 33, 39, the sound is only 2.1 meaning that sound comes only from the left and right front speakers plus the subwoofer...the center speaker and the 2 rear speakers have no sound.

Is this the way sound is supposed to be for OTA HD signals in the Dallas, TX area? Or should I expect to hear 5.1 sound from all HD signals, including all the channels sending 4x3 HD broadcasts?

HERE'S MY UPDATE...

I have been receiving OTA-HD for the past 1.5 years, the last 3 months on a HD-TIVO. I was using a 50 mile radio shack antenna with R.S. amp. My signals weren't all solid but it was working.
3 weeks ago, I total lost my local ABC and never could get it back. Tried 2 different AMPs and even any receiver, to no avail.

I decided to research antennas and read enough to believe that a better antenna would help. I got the Winegard HD7080P without an AMP and I got ABC-HD back plus a couple of other locals I couldn't get before.

I have read that an Good antenna can make a big difference, not I see it for myself. R.S. antenna and AMPs are average at best, from what I read, and the Winegard and Channel Master top end units are probable the best.

I'm definitely sold on the Winegard and I want to pass this info on to others that might be battling OTA issues.

Plus the Winegard I bought is only about $20 more than the other equivalent SP and other antenna. So it is a well spent $20 for a total of $100.

Location is Plano, Texas, north of Dallas and 35 miles from station antennas

Bill I also bought the 7777 amp to add onto the Winegard and it turned out I didn't need to. Se if you still are having problems with the R.S. antenna, you might want to try an upgrade on the antenna like I did.

Good luck...

Hi,
I have the ati hdtv card and I've placed the antenna in the attic and
I recieve the major stations such as fox, upn, channel 11, 33, with
signal strenth around 80-90%. I have a problem with wfaa, chanel 8,
I have a very weak signal or no signal at all.
If I hang the antenna from the rafters instead of the placing it on the
floor the signal strength on wfaa goes up to 50%, but then the
signal strength drops on all the other channels.
Anyone else in Carrollton, have problems with wfaa?

Thanks

I've only had HDTV for about 2 weeks now and have only found 5.1 sound from FOX as well. It must be the broadcast content or the station that governs.

Donny35,

The true Dolby Digital 5.1 sound is dependant on the program being aired. Fox is new to true HD programming, and they have made an effort to do everything in 720p picture and 5.1 sound. Most primetime shows on other networks are in HD, but the sound isn't always 5.1. When a show is in Dolby though, your receiver will show it. Enjoy the new world of HDTV.

mhn2

Originally posted by hdtv4me2
Hi,
I have the ati hdtv card and I've placed the antenna in the attic and
I recieve the major stations such as fox, upn, channel 11, 33, with
signal strenth around 80-90%. I have a problem with wfaa, chanel 8,
I have a very weak signal or no signal at all.
If I hang the antenna from the rafters instead of the placing it on the
floor the signal strength on wfaa goes up to 50%, but then the
signal strength drops on all the other channels.
Anyone else in Carrollton, have problems with wfaa?

Thanks

read my previous post. I love in Plano and I couldn't get 8.1 with the R.S. antenna I had. I went to a Winegard antenna,which I found to be a a lot antenna and it fixed my problems...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xesdeeni
[B]I was curious how much bandwidth is wasted by the simulcasting of the weather radar on several of our local affiliates

Wow!

Here is an email conversation I recently had with the chief engineer from WFAA recently. As a courtesy to him I have deleted his name and email address.



Thanks for the kind words. We are working with vendors to develop compression technologies that will minimize the pixilation you see during high motion content. Keep watching.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: WS5X [mailto:ws5x@cumbytel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:56 PM
To: deleted- WFAA
Subject: Re: 8.3



Thank you,

FWIW, I notice during Monday Night Football and other HD broadcasts that there is a great deal of pixilation during the show. The wife constantly asks "Why do we have to deal with this?" I reply with "It's HDTV!!" I am receiving your ATSC signal with a strength of 90+ here in Cumby TX., Hopkins Co. at all times with a standard antenna at 28 feet. Thanks you for what you are doing for us(SkyWarn) and the rest of the ATSC capable viewers in the market. I work in the cable/satellite industry and I can safely say that the Plano and McKinney area is 80% converted to digital TV. We install attic antennas EVERYDAY!!!



#1161 Hunt/Hopkins Co. ARES/SkyWarn



P.S. If you have an e-mail address for the powers that be involved with that purchase, I can provide them a good reason to make the investment. The president of the American Radio Relay League which represents ALL of amateur radio in the entire country resides in Dallas. We can arrange a proposal that will blow their socks off.

$150k is not a lot of money to a company the size of Belo. Maybe the future will come before next spring. Your radar helps us save lives!!

----- Original Message -----

From: deleted - WFAA

To: ws5x@cumbytel.com

Cc: deleted
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 4:09 PM

Subject: 8.3



Brian, our goal is to provide full time radar on 8.3 at some point in the future. Last week we were evaluating some new encoder technology that will allow WFAA to provide one high quality HD signal and two good quality SD signals all in our 19.39Mb stream. The new equipment is not cheap at $150k. Be patient with us. We are going to instruct our weather personnel to put the radar into the live window in 8.2 during major rain events, hopefully this will help you during severe weather.

From: WS5X <ws5x@cumbytel.com>

> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:24:30 -0500

> To: <deleted>

> Subject: Fw: Comments on 8.3

>

> Hope I didn't speak too soon. It's gone again.

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: WS5X <mailto:ws5x@cumbytel.com>

> To: deleted

> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 8:09 AM

> Subject: Fw: Comments on 8.3

>

> THANK YOU 100x for bringing back our life saving tool. Kudos to the

> swift action of your engineering staff.

>

> RACES #1161

> Hunt County




Director of Engineering

WFAA TV DT

deleted@wfaa.com / blackberry

214.977.**** voice

214.977.**** fax



This service is BY FAR NOT a waste of bandwidth. This precious service is the first REALTIME radar Skywarn has ever had access to. Before, we had the internet with a 3 to 5 minute delay. 3 to 5 minutes could be difference between early warning and no warning at all. I am a BIG HDTV fan. I have had HDTV since 9/9/01. Yeah the Sunday before. I remember that being one of the first things I saw on my new Mitsubishi/DTC100.

The 8VSB technology will undergo some major improvments in the near future. Channel 11 almost has it right but even then I saw an excessive amount of pixilation during the steelers game sunday with a 90% signal.

Mitsubishi 53" wide
DTV HR10-250
Mid grade RS antenna @ 28 FT with CM amplifier

I get >80% signal on all DT streams with the exception of KDFI which is around 50% here. I live in Hopkins county on the BIG hill between Greenville and Sulphur Springs.

Sure, live continuous radar is a good thing. So why not put a live radar down in the lower right corner of the analog broadcast? Because it detracts from the main program. The same is true of simulcasting on the digital domain. It's just not as obvious where the detraction is coming from.

The main point I want to emphasize is that there are several alternatives WFAA has that would be reasonable to everyone concerned. (And because they are an ABC affiliate, there's one that wouldn't be available to NBC, CBS, WB, or UPN.):

1. Broadcast the main HD in 720p. 720p requires less than 1080i to obtain approximately the same quality (not resolution, but specifically quantity of MPEG artifacts). WFAA is the only ABC affiliate in the country to broadcast ABC content at 1080i. This is because they were one of the first stations to broadcast digital at all (and I commend them on that!). But they haven't upgraded their equipment to go back to the ABC standard of 720p. And contrary to what WFAA engineers claim, while there is a debate between 720p and 1080i camps, no-one has ever claimed that 720p CONVERTED to 1080i (or 1080i converted to 720p for that matter) was as good as either native standard.

2. Contract out with other channels for their extra bandwidth. None of the spanish stations are broadcasting HD, so they have ample bandwidth. And the local religious and shopping networks may never be HD. The cost would be minimal (or free, if the other station understood that the presence of the radar would mean more attention to their channel).

3. Use an extremely low bandwidth. It's radar for goodness sake. It's not really video per-se. 1 Mbps is plenty for static images, and most channels (except CBS) waste more than that amount in NULL packets.

8.2 is a completely different story. You didn't mention it, so I hope you agree with me that it's a complete waste. It's fluff. The contents are old, the information scroll is not consistently updated, and the weather forecast takes up way too much of the screen. And on top of that, they can't even get a decent scaler, so the video looks like crap when they scale it to the upper left corner of the screen.

Xesdeeni

BTW, my parents lived through the huge tornado in Oklahoma a few years back. Gary England didn't seem to have any trouble coming on the air and warning them, and there was no digital TV in OKC at that time. A static radar image wouldn't have gotten their attention, or given them the actual address of the tornado as it closed in on their house! I think calling such a thing a lifesave might be stretching.

Originally posted by Xesdeeni
1. Broadcast the main HD in 720p. 720p requires less than 1080i to obtain approximately the same quality (not resolution, but specifically quantity of MPEG artifacts). WFAA is the only ABC affiliate in the country to broadcast ABC content at 1080i. This is because they were one of the first stations to broadcast digital at all (and I commend them on that!). But they haven't upgraded their equipment to go back to the ABC standard of 720p. And contrary to what WFAA engineers claim, while there is a debate between 720p and 1080i camps, no-one has ever claimed that 720p CONVERTED to 1080i (or 1080i converted to 720p for that matter) was as good as either native standard.

The reason that WFAA is 1080i is because they are owned by Belo, who also owns a CBS affiliate in Houston. The decided early on to standardize their infrastructure on 1080i (since they will be buying equipment for multiple stations, etc.).


3. Use an extremely low bandwidth. It's radar for goodness sake. It's not really video per-se. 1 Mbps is plenty...

I think that is part of the intent with the new encoder WFAA has experimented with. When they had 8.3 up a while back, 8.1 got the same bitrate it has been getting, but 8.2 and 8.3 shared the ~2mb/s that 8.2 is getting now.

8.2 is a completely different story. You didn't mention it, so I hope you agree with me that it's a complete waste. It's fluff. The contents are old, the information scroll is not consistently updated, and the weather forecast takes up way too much of the screen. And on top of that, they can't even get a decent scaler, so the video looks like crap when they scale it to the upper left corner of the screen.

It was of interest during the conventions and the Florida hurricane coverage, but I don't see much use for it day to day. Basically ABC trying to do an OTA version of CNN but more attention definitely needs to be given to the text crawl content (there was one a month or so ago about a space walk outside the shuttle!). I don't think the problem is scaling so much as using a very low bitrate.

Originally posted by Cheezmo
The reason that WFAA is 1080i is because they are owned by Belo, who also owns a CBS affiliate in Houston. The decided early on to standardize their infrastructure on 1080i (since they will be buying equipment for multiple stations, etc.).One of the WFAA engineers told me they only had 1080i equipment to choose from when they started, which is understandable. You may have hit on the reason that they haven't switched. But knowing the reason doesn't change the degraded quality of ABC content we get here in Dallas, or the higher bandwidth required of 1080i. And it doesn't lessen the effect of stealing bandwidthe from the HD feed.I don't think the problem is scaling so much as using a very low bitrate. The artifacts I see are definitely from poor scaling. Interlaced content is difficult to scale reasonably well, but the equipment or settings being used aren't doing a good job.

Xesdeeni

Originally posted by david(dallas)
read my previous post. I love in Plano and I couldn't get 8.1 with the R.S. antenna I had. I went to a Winegard antenna,which I found to be a a lot antenna and it fixed my problems...

Where did you buy this winegard antenna and what was the cost?

Thanks

Originally posted by hdtv4me2
Where did you buy this winegard antenna and what was the cost?

Thanks

I paid a total of $100 from a Culbertson's TV out of Rockwell. 972-772-3899.

He delivered it to my house in Plano. He offered to install for $75, but I ended up doing that myself.

I thought the price was very good. Everything on the INTERNET would have cost a minimum of $90 and that is with shipping.

Good luck...

Originally posted by Xesdeeni

BTW, my parents lived through the huge tornado in Oklahoma a few years back. Gary England didn't seem to have any trouble coming on the air and warning them, and there was no digital TV in OKC at that time. A static radar image wouldn't have gotten their attention, or given them the actual address of the tornado as it closed in on their house! I think calling such a thing a lifesave might be stretching.


Perhaps they had a ATV (amateur TV)feed supplied out of OKC by one of the stations. I know thah the Dallas RACES/Skywarn, until the advent of DTV and the radar that is being broadcast, used a ATV feed from KTVT. We can see a developing situation approaching. Also the NWS Ft Worth has a direct radio link to our skywarn activities and we exchange information.

Hey guys I heard somewhere that UPN 21 was rebroadcasting HDNet content except for sports games. Everytime I turn to it it has regular UPN content. Any ideas if they are rebroadcasting HDnet at certain times or what?

Originally posted by williamn333
Hey guys I heard somewhere that UPN 21 was rebroadcasting HDNet content except for sports games. Everytime I turn to it it has regular UPN content. Any ideas if they are rebroadcasting HDnet at certain times or what?

They use to do this when HDNET first came out. I don't believe they do it anymore..

Originally posted by david(dallas)
HERE'S MY UPDATE...

I have been receiving OTA-HD for the past 1.5 years, the last 3 months on a HD-TIVO. I was using a 50 mile radio shack antenna with R.S. amp. My signals weren't all solid but it was working.
3 weeks ago, I total lost my local ABC and never could get it back. Tried 2 different AMPs and even any receiver, to no avail.

I decided to research antennas and read enough to believe that a better antenna would help. I got the Winegard HD7080P without an AMP and I got ABC-HD back plus a couple of other locals I couldn't get before.

I have read that an Good antenna can make a big difference, not I see it for myself. R.S. antenna and AMPs are average at best, from what I read, and the Winegard and Channel Master top end units are probable the best.

I'm definitely sold on the Winegard and I want to pass this info on to others that might be battling OTA issues.

Plus the Winegard I bought is only about $20 more than the other equivalent SP and other antenna. So it is a well spent $20 for a total of $100.

Location is Plano, Texas, north of Dallas and 35 miles from station antennas

Bill I also bought the 7777 amp to add onto the Winegard and it turned out I didn't need to. Se if you still are having problems with the R.S. antenna, you might want to try an upgrade on the antenna like I did.
Good luck...

Update, With the Winegard ONLY, I wasn't pulling in 27.1 plus some other's like 58's and 68.s. I have since added on the Channel master 7777 amp and now I get everything!!!!

I hope I'm now set for life :)

> Hey guys I heard somewhere that UPN 21 was rebroadcasting HDNet content except for sports games. Everytime I turn to it it has regular UPN content. Any ideas if they are rebroadcasting HDnet at certain times or what?

They were doing this in 2002. Starting in early 2003, they switched to a special "OTA-only" service from HDNet that was mostly programming that had runs it course on HDNet -- and was not comparable to the HDNet programming available on satellite. However, HDNet recently dropped that service, so UPN 21 is no longer carrying anything from them, and is simulcasting their analog channel full time. But the good news is that they do have more HD programming since UPN is adding more HD...plus they have the syndicated HDOne movie package.

Sunday morning we lost the input card to the KTXA Upconverter. This means that we will not be able to simulcast normal SD programming until we can get a new input card or replacement upconverter. This will not affect true HD programming on KTXA. I anticipate having a fix for this by Tuesday 11/10/04.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Bill

HERE'S MY UPDATE...

Originally posted by billt1111
I lost 8.1 and 8.2 three weeks ago as well in Flower Mound. All other DFW digital stations work fine before and after. Putting a radio shack RF amp on made it intermittent, but proved that it was just a signal strength problem. So i ordered a channel master 7777 amp and will try that when it comes in this week. My antenna is in my attic and I really don't want to install a larger one just to receive MNF and 'Desperate Housewives' in HD. :)

I realize that atmospheric conditions affect VHF propagation drastically. However the weather has not changed THAT much for WFAA to lose that much channel 9 signal strength from before. Something changed that they will not admit.

Putting a CM 7777 amp on my attic mounted, compact, Winegard 4400, http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/pr-4400.pdf, solved my problem. My Sylvania ATSC tuner signal strength indication for 8.1 and 8.2 went from the 20s and 30s to the 70s and 80s. I know I could have used a larger antenna for more gain but I wanted to try and make the size and placement of the 4400 work first. I now get all DFW digital channels now (again).

Looks like the Cowboys game will NOT be in HD today (according to DMN)?!?!? Argh...dang Bengals!!!!!

Originally posted by boristhedog
Looks like the Cowboys game will NOT be in HD today (according to DMN)?!?!? Argh...dang Bengals!!!!!

Checkhd's e-mail listed NFL Football under Fox as being in HD today, and it is supposed to be market-specific, so I am holding out hope. But everything else I can find suggests the DMN might be right....

Randy

Good that the game was in HD, but unfortunately it was the Cowboys....UGLY!!!!!

Originally posted by Technobill
Sunday morning we lost the input card to the KTXA Upconverter. This means that we will not be able to simulcast normal SD programming until we can get a new input card or replacement upconverter. This will not affect true HD programming on KTXA. I anticipate having a fix for this by Tuesday 11/10/04.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Bill

The replacement Upconverter is in-place.

BTW - grey side panels are active.

Bill

Thanks for the update Bill.

Sorry if this is a dumb question but what do you mean by the 'grey side panels'?

Tune to 21-1 and it will be obvious. When upconverting standard definition 4:3 programming, they are putting gray bars on the sides rather than black bars.

Bill, just out of curiousity, what went into the decision to do that? I think you are the first in the Dallas OTA market to to it. While those of us with CRT or plasma based displays may appreciate it, those with fixed pixel displays that aren't susceptible to burn in may well prefer the black bars.

If you ask me, the best thing to do would be to not upconvert SD material to 1080i at all, but rather broadcast that material at 480i (or 480p) which would conserve bandwidth and allow the end user to choose what kind of bars to put on the sides (or stretch mode to use). But perhaps there are considerations with regard to changing resolution on a show by show basis.

I'm trying to find out if the OTA HD signals are live in the DFW market.

I did have excellent HD OTA reception (on all digital channels) until Sunday.

I'm using a Channel Master ant. in my attic linked to a Mit. WD52525 RPTV. Starting Sunday, I lost all my digital OTA signals. The analog is working great. I added a signal amp today and now even the weaker analog stations (ch 55, etc.) are coming in very strong. However, I still have no digital OTA signals. I'm starting to wonder if the problem is in my set or the ant. signal. Any suggestions?

Thanks

No problems here, although 8-1 was a little flaky last night...

Have you tried doing a reset and re-scan on your 52525, you may have the old software with some OTA tuner issues? (I have a WD-62725)

I tried re-memorizing the OTA channels on the WD52525. It didn't memorize any OTA digital signals. I called Mit. customer support and was told I needed a software update. They are suppose to be sending me a card with the update. Hopefully this will fix the problem.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Originally posted by boristhedog
No problems here, although 8-1 was a little flaky last night...

Have you tried doing a reset and re-scan on your 52525, you may have the old software with some OTA tuner issues? (I have a WD-62725)

I have problems getting OTA tuned in properly on my WS-55613, do think this could be the same s/w issue?

My HD DVR at the ready (including shifting ER and CSI to SD recording), I heard this morning that WFAA is NOT going to show Saving Private Ryan tonight (http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2552156). As a veteran, I am outraged at everyone involved.

The FCC did not grant a waiver or otherwise reassure ABC that they would not (or even tell them they would, in spite of previous airings) be fined. I was as upset as anyone about the Super Bowl fiasco, but the point was that the Super Bowl wasn't billed as adult entertainment! Saving Private Ryan will have warnings before it begins and on every commercial break. Tell parents up front, then they have a choice, but don't spring it on us.

WFAA - you're wimps. The fine will be so litigated that it will never pass. Any lawyer worth his salt can differentiate between a completely known and warned content and a surprise. And although I object to the characterization of sex as more offensive than violence (the last time I checked, humanity could go 1000 years without violence, but we wouldn't make it that long without sex), Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" is a completely different matter from a realistic depiction of a very real war.

Contact WFAA -- TODAY -- and let them know you want them to show Saving Private Ryan.

And contact the FCC -- TODAY -- and let them know they are not serving the public interest by leaving the network hanging on this.

It's Veteran's Day for goodness sakes!

Xesdeeni

I am right there with you Xesdeeni. I find it insulting that WFAA is worried about the FCC. I guess those 11 years of service are over shadowed by a concern that somebody will be offended by the f-word as the soldiers are being shot at. I suppose we North Texans are too sensitive to see the face of war. Of course it was OK for me to jump out of airplanes and sit in overseas bunkers with my finger on the button but just don't tell us about it. :mad:

It's just the ridiculous extremes. The Super Bowl, with a halftime show that was already so inappropriate for my young children that I had changed the channel before Janet Jackson even took the stage, but with absolutely no warning. So now, even with adequate warnings before and during the show, and a movie with well known content, they go to the other extreme.

Xesdeeni

Originally posted by Xesdeeni
It's just the ridiculous extremes. The Super Bowl, with a halftime show that was already so inappropriate for my young children that I had changed the channel before Janet Jackson even took the stage, but with absolutely no warning. So now, even with adequate warnings before and during the show, and a movie with well known content, they go to the other extreme.

Xesdeeni

I agree that WFAA's decision is ridiculous and infuriating. But I think that their motivation is not to err on the side of caution or to protect our children. Their motivation is revenge for the FCC fines. They are trying to show us sheep-minded public what will happen if we don't reign in the mean communists at the FCC and stop them from censoring 'artistic' content like Janet Jackson's left breast. This is a 'see what you started' retaliation. They know full well the two situations are completely different but are trying to draw a parallel. Luckily I have the dvd (along with 98% of the rest of the free world) and an upconverting dvd player, so I don't care what they do.

How ridiculous is it to believe the FCC will fine them? That's just stupid. You think, just perhaps, you could CHECK with the FCC first? Maybe?

They did check with the FCC. Apparently the FCC wouldn't comment. I can't find the quote, but it said something like "if we tell you not to air it, it will be censorship."

So they know the rules. They won't tell you the rules. But they will smack you if you break them.

Sounds a bit like some of the Communist countries to me.

Xesdeeni

WFAA is just unbelievable!! Just saw their disclaimer on why they weren't running SPR. Oh it's not our fault, it's the mean old network by not allowing us to show it later. WFAA and Belo Corp - you can just bite my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

Originally posted by Xesdeeni
They did check with the FCC. Apparently the FCC wouldn't comment. I can't find the quote, but it said something like "if we tell you not to air it, it will be censorship."

So they know the rules. They won't tell you the rules. But they will smack you if you break them.

Sounds a bit like some of the Communist countries to me.

Xesdeeni

Not quite. Two years ago the FCC provided comment on this movie and deemed it to be acceptable. Its not that the FCC would not comment. The FCC NEVER decides beforehand whether it will levy fines or not on any airing. They must have formal complaints from the public before they will investigate or do anything about inappropriate content. Quite rightly, they don't want to be put in the position of having to rate or judge every program before it airs.

Given that the show has already aired twice before, on ABC, they would not be judging it before it airs.

And since when are you breaking the law only if someone complains?

Xesdeeni

What's happening? Been watching WFAA-DT HD programming since 7pm and not 1 hiccup. Hope this is the case Monday night.

Originally posted by Xesdeeni
Given that the show has already aired twice before, on ABC, they would not be judging it before it airs.

And since when are you breaking the law only if someone complains?

Xesdeeni

The FCC does not rule beforehand on every one of the tens of thousands of shows per year. They leave it up to the public to decide and file complaints. In the case of this movie they had already received complaints in the previous airings and dismissed them, all after the fact.

The FCC provides guidelines and rules. To own a US broadcast license is a privilege, not a right, afforded only to citizens of the United States. To air indecent material is not breaking the law but you can be fined and/or lose your privilege for not excersizing judgement expected of a licenseholder.

But you're back to the same garbage: we won't tell you what wrong is, but we'll smack you if you do wrong. One of the founding principles of our country is that you won't be put in a position of not knowing you are violating a regulation or law. You have a right to know something is against the law before you do it. And the existence of complaints or not after the fact have no bearing on whether you violated the statute. They only have a bearing on whether the violation is acted upon. And they may shape changes in the regulations...although the changes cannot be applied retroactively.

On the other hand, it is not reasonable to expect the FCC to rule on broadcasts that they cannot judge beforehand, such as live performences (Super Bowl XXXVIII -- however if someone had asked the FCC if a bare breast was against the rules, they should have been able to say "yes"). But they certainly can judge content such as this, which is well known. If they intend to dismiss complaints, then the content is being judged OK. If they would fine ABC based on complaints, then the content is not being judged OK. And if their criteria has changed since the last time the show was aired, they have a responsibility to inform the broadcasters.

No, having a license is not a right. But just because it is a priviledge doesn't mean that the broadcasters don't have to be given a fair shake to use the airwaves within a set of known regulations.

Xesdeeni

Post in the Dallas thread.

KDFW-DT Anybody else having this problem??

I have been for a long time been experiencing pixilation only when there is an overabundance of RED on the screen. Tonight during COPS when they were talking to the car thief wearing glasses and a wife-beater. The red light of the police car was the source. It cut out badly. Another time is during the weather when the red L (low pressure center) is on the map. I talked to the engineering department. He talked to me like I was stupid and told me it must be my equipment. I am using a HR10-250 and my signal on ch. 35 is 92.

Anyone else having this problem?

I upgraded my TV to an HDTV receiver and Dish came out today and installed the 811 HD/OTA receiver. After the installer left, I installed a Radio Shack 15-2154 120", 37 element VHF/UHF/FM antenna in my attic.


After scanning for all available digital stations, I am able to view all the digital stations except KMPX-DT (30), KXTX-DT (40), KDFI-DT (36) and KLDT-DT (54).


I do not care about KMPX and KXTX (both Spanish) or KLDT (all informercials), but KDFI (Rangers and Stars games) are of interest to me. The signal strength for all the other signals is in the 70-85% range, while the signal for KDFI, KXTX, KMPX, and KPXD-DT are stuck at 49%. The antenna is pointing 199 degrees (South, I live in Plano) directly at the Cedar Hills towers.

Does anyone have any suggestions, short of mounting the antenna on the roof (which I'd rather not do) on how to boost the reception of the channels I'd like to get?

Here is a link to the FCC license data for Dallas only. Note the ERP power levels. KDFI is transmitting at a relatively low power. Click on the callsign for the complete license data.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=&city=dallas&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

Originally posted by mp3trojan
Here is a link to the FCC license data for Dallas only. Note the ERP power levels. KDFI is transmitting at a relatively low power. Click on the callsign for the complete license data.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=&city=dallas&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

I lost channel 27-1 as well in the last month or so. I get all other channels in Flower Mound very well since I installed a channel master 7777 amp.

The FCC database shows KDFI transmmitting at 5 megawatts ERP on channel 27. For KDFI digital channel 36 they have two different ERPs listed, but at different heights and different locations, 1 megawatt and 11 KILOwatts respectively. Does anyone know which are they using right now? I guess since I lost thier digital channel it must be the latter.

Until the Rangers come back on in April I really don't care too much so there is a lot of time to think about it. The Stars.....Well lets say that the Stars are looking good on KDFI for 2008.

KDFI TX DALLAS USA (Digital)

Licensee: NEW DMIC, INC.
Service Designation: DS Special Temporary Authority (digital)

Channel: 36 602 - 608 MHz
File No.: BDSTA-20020325ACC Facility ID number: 17037
CDBS Application ID No.: 598973

32° 32' 35.00" N Latitude 96° 57' 32.00" W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization: Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 11.2 kW ERP Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 384. meters HAAT Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 587. meters AMSL Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 0. meters AGL Directional Antenna ID No.: 43015 Pattern Rotation: 0.00


This is the STA license. Special Temporary Authority. They were granted a Construction Permit for the legal limit 1000.00 kw. They only went on the air with 11.2 kw. Don't know the reason for not running full power but I believe when they are granted their permanent license they will be at or near full power.

I have seen references to people using amplifiers with their antennas. Before I go out and spend $50 on one, I need to ask three basic questions:

1. My antenna is installed in an attic without a pole mount (I have a vaulted ceiling in the living room). The antenna is laying on the top of the vaulted ceiling pointing at Cedar Hill. Will an amplifier work without there being a metal poll to attach it to?

2. Will an amplifier like the Channel Master 7777 work with a Radio Shack antenna?

and most importantly:

3. Will an amplifier work with an attic mounted atenna, or does an amplifier require a roof installation?

1. Yes, I hung antennas on the rafters using coax to hang 'em with.

2. Yes, Channel Master is WAY better than a RS amp. However, RS antennas work fine.

3. Yes, will work in attic.

Originally posted by Cheezmo

Bill, just out of curiousity, what went into the decision to do that? I think you are the first in the Dallas OTA market to to it. While those of us with CRT or plasma based displays may appreciate it, those with fixed pixel displays that aren't susceptible to burn in may well prefer the black bars.

If you ask me, the best thing to do would be to not upconvert SD material to 1080i at all, but rather broadcast that material at 480i (or 480p) which would conserve bandwidth and allow the end user to choose what kind of bars to put on the sides (or stretch mode to use). But perhaps there are considerations with regard to changing resolution on a show by show basis.

Bill,

After watching a few Mavs games I couldn't agree more. Those forced gray bars are a real distraction. Is there any way we can convince the management to reconsider?

I must comment on the noticable improvments in the quality of WFAA-DT. In the last week I have been able to, on more than one occasion watch a complete show with no dropouts at all, except for the 3 minutes of audio only during Hope and Faith at 7pm(probably the network feed). It is obvious that David has done some work on their equipment. Your HDTV viewers thank you VERY much. Keep it up!!

I played around with my $20 rabbit ears a little more and can now pickup all the stations except 27. Channel 8 was the hardest to connect to, but I'm getting a solid 60% signal now. I'm located in north Plano, along the Frisco border.

Is there an issue with 27 right now or do I just need a better antenna to pick it up?

Channel 27 is not at full power.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that an old pair of busted rabbit ears mounted in the attic did the trick for me. No amplification. I'm getting everything except 27. The four major networks are at 90% and everything else is solid as well. I'm locate in Lucas, east of Allen.

I was about to go out get a decent antenna when I tried the rabbit ear thing on whim. If you are pack rat, it may be worth digging through your piles of junk first.

Originally posted by racedog
I was pleasantly surprised to find that an old pair of busted rabbit ears mounted in the attic did the trick for me. No amplification. I'm getting everything except 27. The four major networks are at 90% and everything else is solid as well. I'm locate in Lucas, east of Allen.

I was about to go out get a decent antenna when I tried the rabbit ear thing on whim. If you are pack rat, it may be worth digging through your piles of junk first.

VERY surprised, those must be from a good luck rabbit :)

I had so many problems getting 8.1 with my 50 mile radio shack in the past months, I upgraded to a Winegard antenna to get all my channels except 27. Adding the C.M. 7777 got me 27.

So I tip my hat to your rabbit ears...

An update from northern Plano: I installed the Channel Master 7777 amplifier to my attic mounted antenna tonight. I still can't pick up KDFI or KLDT, but now can get all 4 multiplex stations of KDTX and KPXD.

I can also pick up KXII-DT (20, Sherman) occasionally. KMPX-DT is still intermittent, as is KXTX-DT.

On the analog side, I am picking up KXII (12), and the low power stations on 26, 28, 31, 38, 44, and 57 with varying degrees of snow and static.

Then my next move would be a chimney mount. You then should have no problems. If you live under H.O.A. covenants and restrictions, federal law permits you to install it. It is illegal for them to stop you.
Reference: www.fcc.gov
Search: OTARD

Good Luck

I'm about to go HD, and have been reading a lot today about various issues. I have a question about Dallas HD and DirecTV.

I'm getting the DirecTiVo HD unit, and due to the fact that my bedroom TV will remain SD, I need to keep the D* local channels on the account so that they can be seen in the bedroom (which has an older model DirecTiVo). Anyway..

In the living room where the HD will be, how will the TiVo reconcile my local channels when I receive it via the D* local channel package here in Dallas, as well as the stuff I'll pick up over the antenna? Will I have say WFAA listed twice as 8 and then the extra stuff on 8.1, 8.2, etc?

If this queston is dumb, please excuse me, I'm pretty new to all of this.

Yes, unlike my old DTC-100 where you have to switch inputs for antenna and satellite, they will be integrated and show in the guide just like you say. The great thing about your new love for TiVo is that the guide info for the antenna digital channels is obtained from the satellite and will show an [HD] icon in the guide when applicable. I have only had my HR10-250 HD TiVo unit for 3 weeks now and I will never be without one again.

My ONLY complaint about the HD tivo is that I cannot crop non HD..4x3 with the receiver like I could with the DTC 100. I have to do it with the TV and it doesn't fit right. Now I watch non HD programs on the sat. locals. Other than that it rocks.

About 2-3 weeks ago I noticed that all my locals showed "Regular Schedule" in the guide. I have a Sony SATHD200. I thought it was just a temporary glitch but I still have the same thing on every local channel. My DirecTV locals still show correctly. Anyone else having this problem?

Yes, I have the same problem...I'm in Plano with a Sony HD200.

I called DirecTV 2 weeks ago, got to 2nd level support after doing the obligatory receiver reset, and he finally acknowleded that it's their problem not mine. I asked for a ticket number to track the issue and he said I don't need one, they're aware of it, and it will inevitably be fixed. Still waiting...

Must be a IRD specific problem. I have no problem with the guide in my HR10-250(HD-TiVo). The only OTA channels here showing "Regular Schedule" are:
2-1
30-1
33-2
46-1
68-2-3-4

All others show correct with advanced guide data i.e. [HD] [LB].

The guide on my RCA DTC-100 only shows OTA guide data being transmitted by the station. In Dallas, I only saw guide data on WFAA, KTVT, and PBS and then usually only in primetime.

Hello all,

I have had my hd tivo for about 4 weeks now and I have noticed that I do not see the Dolby Digital icon in the banner ONLY when watching OTA channels. I know for a fact that CBS 11, and FOX 4, when showing HD programming DOES transmit DD 5.1 audio. The only time I get the Dolby Digital icon is when I am on the satellite HD channels. I am watching the TB/ATL game on Fox and the banner on the tivo says "This program does not have any other alternate audio tracks"

I also have a RCA DTC-100 and it shows (Dolby Digital) in the banner on OTA HD.

Anyone else in Dallas with this receiver having this problem???

My son just moved into a town-home (The Reserve) near Montfort and Spring Valley near The Galleria.... He bought a new HDTV to go along with his HD Dish setup, and my job was to provide the OTA HD... Well, first bought a Winegard SS-2000, the amplified Squareshooter.... Nope, signals there, but too weak to lock... Next, bought a CM 4228 and a 7777 preamp.... Looked a bit ugly compared to the Winegard, worked a little better, but still no decent lock.... Tried another receiver.... Took my meter, compass, and rusty EE skills over there again today and still couldn't get decent signals... So, now I'm looking for suggestions as to what to try, or buyers.... I'll sell this stuff at my cost, less shipping, just to move it out of the garage.... It's all essentially new, have the boxes, and about 1-2 hours time on each.... And the hell of it, Channel 4, the lowest VHF station and supposedly the hardest to get period, is almost flawless.... UHF kinda pitiful... Go figure....

I have installed MANY setups at the reserve. I assume the dish is mounted on a south facing balcony??? or did he sign the contract to use the dish supplied by the complex???

If he is using the balcony then the OTA transmitters are in the same general direction as the dish.

If using the balcony...go to Radio shack and buy the smallest YAGI style antenna they sell..no amp necessary, and put it on the balcony using a tripod and point it(the V shaped side) in the same general direction as the dish is pointed then you should be good. If you are using the dish supplied by the complex and your balcony does not face south then admit defeat.

FYI comcast offers OTA locals in HDTV.

Hope I helped

We selected a balcony facing west so he could do a dish aiming SSW.... The Dish works just great.... Your right, the angle for the Dish and OTA are almost equal.... I thought about a chimney mount for a mast for the 4228 on the brick post next to the air conditioners.... I bought the over-priced DS-1111 bent pole to mount the Squareshooter above the Dish.... A tripod would be really easy too.... So a rat shack yagi is better than the 4228's and Squareshooters ???? Huh....
And you have done several installs there.... The Dish guy offered to try a Winegard bow-tie, but I had read such wonderful things about the CM and the Squareshooter, and being an old EE, I just had to try it myself... Should have probably listened to him.... Would you mind if I gave you a call ???? If not, email a number to me at ejkluft@sbcglobalnospam.net.... Thanks, Ernie

I have recently lost the lock on KSTR-DT. My Dish Network 811 says that the signal strength is 70-85%, but the signal will not "lock" and show the channel. Any ideas?

KSTR 49-1 is off the air here. I have NO signal.

Gator, let me know if my advice over the phone helped.

Is there something wrong with KERA-DT?

I have three OTA tuners. The FusionHDTV says 100%, but cannot decode the picture at all. The MyHD says 64%, but the picture jumps and stutters, although there are no macroblocks like you'd expect from bad data. The 65513's tuner doesn't have a meter, but the symptoms look just like the MyHD (jumps and stutters, but no macroblocks).

I don't have any problems with any other channels, and I haven't seen this problem with KERA-DT before (although I haven't looked at KERA-DT in a few weeks).

Is anyone else seeing similar problems?

Xesdeeni

No signal from KERA-DT here. Signal strength here - 0.
Usually 90-92

Ouch! 0%?

Anyone else?

Is it time to contact KERA, or should we give them a day (assuming the problem started over the weekend, and their engineers were out)?

Xesdeeni

Newbie help here.
I just received my new sammy 5674 DLP HDTV and I plan on having Direct TV or Voom HD installed soon. I would like to get High def local channels so I assume I need to get a OTA. I live in Little Elm. At the CEA website it said that I would need a Large-Directional Antenna with Pre-amp. Most of the digital channels are approximately 40-45 miles away. Here are my questions.
1. What antenna (brand) do I get. I have no clue. Does the amps come with the antenna. Where do I get this antenna.
2. Will Direct TV or Voom install this for me, and can I trust them to do this correctly.
3. I would prefer to have it mounted in the attic. Does this hurt reception.

Any other reccommendations welcomed. Sorry abount the clueless questions. By the way, I have to get channel 8.1 for Monday Night Football.:)

Not at home to check KERA, but was anyone having issues with KXAS(NBC 5.1) yesterday?

I relocated and mounted my attic antenna yesterday, which previously was just sitting on a box up there. Was able to pull in all major stations before, including 5.1.

All other channels are coming in just fine. Even getting 27-1 sometimes, which I had never pulled in before.

Originally posted by Stewee
Newbie help here.
I just received my new sammy 5674 DLP HDTV and I plan on having Direct TV or Voom HD installed soon. I would like to get High def local channels so I assume I need to get a OTA. I live in Little Elm. At the CEA website it said that I would need a Large-Directional Antenna with Pre-amp. Most of the digital channels are approximately 40-45 miles away. Here are my questions.
1. What antenna (brand) do I get. I have no clue. Does the amps come with the antenna. Where do I get this antenna.
2. Will Direct TV or Voom install this for me, and can I trust them to do this correctly.
3. I would prefer to have it mounted in the attic. Does this hurt reception.

Any other reccommendations welcomed. Sorry abount the clueless questions. By the way, I have to get channel 8.1 for Monday Night Football.:)

You will need an antenna. Go HERE (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx) and input your address and it will give some suggestions on your needs for the antenna.

I have my antenna mounted in the attic(36-38 miles from transmitters) and can pull in just about all channels just fine(except my new problem with the NBC channel mentioned in my post above).

The installer for DirecTV or Voom can install for you but will charge you to do so. It is up to the installer how much that will be. If going DirecTV, they may still have a special that will include an OTA antenna in the install.

Originally posted by Xesdeeni
Ouch! 0%?

Anyone else?

Is it time to contact KERA, or should we give them a day (assuming the problem started over the weekend, and their engineers were out)?

Xesdeeni

Just checked KERA digital channel 14 (13-1) on both of my ATSC tuners. Working fine in Flower Mound at 1252 pm. Not sure if it was down this morning however.

Still 0% here. Must have cut power WAY down for whatever reason. I am 75.1 NM away from Cedar Hill but my house sits on the tallest point between Little Rock and Ft Worth.

To the guy in Little Elm: Make sure the decking of your roof does not have an aluminum sheet. You will be able to see it in the attic. If you see wood between your rafters then you should be good. If you see aluminum, you must mount outside.

I experienced problems with dropout OTA beginning right after Thanksgiving. I sent an inquiry in to KERA via their web site.

Here is the response I got on Dec 3:

==================================================
Thank you for contacting KERA. We apologize for technical problems and
appreciate your patience while we work on repairs.

xxxx xxxx
Manager
Audience and Member Services
KERA Unlimited
==================================================

Since then my dropout problems have cleared up. I can only assume they were operating at reduced power for a while, or had some other problem.

I searched this thread with no results so I am posting. I live in Denton now, but I am moving to Ponder in the srping. I have an HD ready tv, but no HD yet. I am waiting until I move (live in an apartment now). I am not planning to get satellite or cable, but I am interested in getting OTA HD. Can anyone advise if this is possible in Ponder?

Also, what OTA receiver does everyone suggest for the best reception in the northern part of the metroplex?

Originally posted by FredHD
I searched this thread with no results so I am posting. I live in Denton now, but I am moving to Ponder in the srping. I have an HD ready tv, but no HD yet. I am waiting until I move (live in an apartment now). I am not planning to get satellite or cable, but I am interested in getting OTA HD. Can anyone advise if this is possible in Ponder?

Also, what OTA receiver does everyone suggest for the best reception in the northern part of the metroplex?

I live in Flower Mound and get by quite well now with an attic medium gain antenna and a channel master amp. Ponder looks to be further, about 50 NM northwest of the Cedar Hill transmitters. There is no question it can be done but you will probably need an external antenna on a mast or rooftop and an amp to get all of the digital channels. The lower frequency analog channels will probably not be to good, however. Not sure if you would do this yourself or not.

If you just want an inexpensive OTA ATSC tuner I use a Sylvania SRZ-3000. It works fine for me as a second tuner to my Directv/OTA Samsung 360 STB. It has never failed or locked up in 6 months I have had it. Do a search for the SRZ3000 and you should be able to find them for $50 or less on ebay and elsewhere.

If it were me....

I know that you said you werent looking to get satellite....

What I would do, is go on ebay and search for a RCA DTC-100. I have seen them go for $150. You probably won't get one with an unused VALID access card for that price(card not necessary for OTA only use), however It has an exceptional OTA receiver that is not integrated with the satellite,i.e. you have to press the input button to switch from sat to OTA. THEN if in the future(which i'm sure you will) go with DTV all you need is to hang a dish and get a card. Cards for receivers that have no card are $90... BUT, if you are a new subscriber, i'm sure you can get DTV to work a deal for you just to get your business.

Originally posted by mp3trojan
Cards for receivers that have no card are $90... BUT, if you are a new subscriber, i'm sure you can get DTV to work a deal for you just to get your business.

UI hadn't heard of that high of a price for a card before. I always hear of $20 for replacement cards on this forum and others.

Mabye DTV is different. I haven't dealt with DTV about this. That is what PIGasus charged. It was $40 if you had an old card to exchange and $90 if you didn't.

Does anybody know if Comcast devotes a full 18Mbps to their HD channels??

I have DirecTV and recently stumbled upon the info at wide movies dot com showing the small bandwidth the DirecTV provides for HBO HD, Showtime HD, ahd HD Net Movies. This was disappointing but consistent with the picture quality that I have observed.

Two years ago, the decision to get DirecTV was easy--my local cable, AT&T, didn't provide and HD.

Now, I'm think about getting the HD Tivo from DirecTV. However, $999 requires a little research first.

It seems that if I switch to Comcast, I can get their HD DVR for $10/month. It may not be a good as the Tivo but is a lot cheaper. I'd like to know if the Comcast signal is better that then compressed one from DirecTV.

Thanks

Directv will launch 2 more satellites in 2005 to add 500 more channels and bandwidth, and 2 more in 2007 to add an additional 1000 channels and bandwidth. The additional satellites and bandwidth will add more HD content, more local HD channels, and 'other enhancements'. I would stick with Directv and see what happens. For comcast to keep up they would have to run fiber to your house.

http://digital-lifestyles.info/display_page.asp?section=distribution&id=1569

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/headline.dsp?id=09_08_2004A

Ok I got all pumped up and excited about HDTV!!! Ready to go out and buy. Then I started looking into it a bit more and learned that in order to get the local channels that my option really came down to an over the air antenna. So, I go to antennaweb site and put in my address (zip code 76226). It basically comes back saying a couple of things

1. Only analog stations within distance
2. I need a large directional antenna with amp.

So I start doing some more research and basically have come to the conclusion that I am screwed!!

Please tell me I am wrong; I live in the freakin DFW metroplex - albeit slightly north, but not in the woods!!

Hopefully there is someone lurking on these forums that lives in my community that has had a good experience. I live in Lantana, TX which is basically a Master Planned Community in the Flower Mound Texas Area. I am between Lewisville/FlowerMound and Denton.

I don't want some gigantic Antenna on the roof or even in the attic, so what if any options do I have?

Ok I got all pumped up and excited about HDTV!!! Ready to go out and buy. Then I started looking into it a bit more and learned that in order to get the local channels that my option really came down to an over the air antenna. So, I go to antennaweb site and put in my address (zip code 76226). It basically comes back saying a couple of things

1. Only analog stations within distance
2. I need a large directional antenna with amp.

So I start doing some more research and basically have come to the conclusion that I am screwed!!

Please tell me I am wrong; I live in the freakin DFW metroplex - Denton County.

Hopefully there is someone lurking on these forums that lives in my community that has had a good experience. I live in Lantana, TX which is basically a Master Planned Community in the Flower Mound Texas Area. I am between Lewisville/FlowerMound and Denton. To give a further land mark I live off FM 407. I am about 5 Miles West of I-35 East.

what if any options do I have?

Also here are my antenna web scores
-----
blue - uhf KTXA 21 UPN FORT WORTH TX 159° 35.7 21
blue - uhf KMPX 29 DAY DECATUR TX 136° 19.1 29
blue - uhf KUVN 23 UNI GARLAND TX 159° 35.7 23
blue - uhf KLDT 55 IND LAKE DALLAS TX 119° 10.2 55
blue - uhf KDFI 27 IND DALLAS TX 159° 35.7 27
violet - vhf KDFW 4 FOX DALLAS TX 160° 35.9 4
violet - uhf KSEX-LP 57 IND DALLAS TX 159° 35.7 57
violet - uhf KFWD 52 IND FORT WORTH TX 159° 35.7 52
violet - uhf KDAF 33 WB DALLAS TX 160° 38.9 33
violet - uhf KUVN-CA 31 UNI FORT WORTH TX 202° 26.2 31
violet - vhf KDTN 2 DAY DENTON TX 159° 35.7 2
violet - uhf KDTX 58 TBN DALLAS TX 159° 35.7 58
violet - vhf KERA 13 PBS DALLAS TX 158° 36.6 13
violet - uhf KSTR 49 UNI IRVING TX 160° 38.9 49
violet - vhf KTEN 10 NBC ADA OK 15° 93.7 10
violet - uhf KPXD 68 PAX ARLINGTON TX 159° 35.7 68
violet - vhf WFAA 8 ABC DALLAS TX 160° 35.9 8
violet - vhf KXAS 5 NBC FORT WORTH TX 159° 35.9 5
violet - vhf KXII 12 CBS SHERMAN TX 10° 67.9 12
violet - uhf KXTX 39 TEL DALLAS TX 159° 36.0 39
violet - vhf KTVT 11 CBS FORT WORTH TX 158° 36.6 11

That website just seems to be screwed up. A decent suburban outdoor antenna without amplification should work just fine for you.

For way of comparison, a friend in Carrollton was considering getting an OTA digital tuner and asked me to bring one over to test with his attic-installed antenna (in a single story home), and it was able to bring in any major digital channel just fine and without breakup. Reception was fine without any sort of amplifier, either -- despite the fact that his analog reception isn't very good using the same antenna.

As an experiment, I also brought along an old Radio Shack two-bay bowtie indoor antenna and was able to bring in several stations at his home with that antenna (which also works at my own home in Plano).

Argyle isn't that much further out that you should require much more of an antenna system than my friend has. You may be able to get reception even with a good indoor antenna, although a decent attic or outdoor antenna would be better.

Originally posted by davidan
Ok I got all pumped up and excited about HDTV!!! Ready to go out and buy. Then I started looking into it a bit more and learned that in order to get the local channels that my option really came down to an over the air antenna. So, I go to antennaweb site and put in my address (zip code 76226). It basically comes back saying a couple of things

1. Only analog stations within distance
2. I need a large directional antenna with amp.

So I start doing some more research and basically have come to the conclusion that I am screwed!!

Please tell me I am wrong; I live in the freakin DFW metroplex - albeit slightly north, but not in the woods!!

Hopefully there is someone lurking on these forums that lives in my community that has had a good experience. I live in Lantana, TX which is basically a Master Planned Community in the Flower Mound Texas Area. I am between Lewisville/FlowerMound and Denton.

I don't want some gigantic Antenna on the roof or even in the attic, so what if any options do I have?

I live in Flower Mound and get all digital OTA channels with an small attic mounted antenna and a channel master amp. Argyle is 14 miles farther away from Cedar Hill than I am but it is definitely possible. Channel 8-1 and 27-1 will be your biggest challenge but the others will work fine.

Well get this, I went to my local Home Theater Store today in Southlake and they told me that an attic mount was not really a good idea for me since I have "cool ply" board in the attic (energy effeciency stuff). So I would want to mount outdoors. Anyone have any suggestions on Antennas I should look towards given this? Again I am the guy in Lantana/Argyle TX.

Obviously if I have to mount on the roof I want it to be as small as possible.


David

The same one you were going to put in your attic should do. look in your attic, do you see aluminum beneath the roof decking between the rafters??? If no, no "Cool Ply". Did the guy at HTS build your house? I spent 2 years installing DBS in Frisco, Plano, and McKinney. I saw this in 2 of 10 homes. 6 of 10 in high end homes. Just pull your attic door and look straight up. You see plywood, your good. They don't put it on the outside of composite(shingle) roofs. Oxidation and kinda hard to nail through

I do have the aluminum cool ply stuff in the house. I had the builder put it in, and I just went to the attic and double checked it. I had not yet selected an Antenna for the Attic, (newbie at this stuff), so open for suggestions. According to Antenna Web I need large directional with amp. As it appears I am now likely to have to put that outside (chimney mount or something), I am open for suggestions on something that will be powerful and give me 45 miles of range, yet be as small as possible. With each moment that passes by on this, my wife is rethinking her approval to let me do this stuff! First it was antenna in the attic, now antenna outside. She's not thrilled HAHA! :)

I dont know the modelnumbers but here in Hopkins County which i'm 77.5 N.M. from the transmitters, I am using the $50 Radio shack antenna. It is up 20'. Yes I am using an amp but I only need that for analog. My signal level on 4-1(35) is 92. When I unplug the amp it is 90. If your house is 2 story, you will have what I have and be 40 miles closer. You should be good.

Be sure and get the Yagi style and not let the salesman sell you something "Better"

Here's a pic of mine. It is up 20'. The tower to the right is up 30'.

Originally posted by davidan
Well get this, I went to my local Home Theater Store today in Southlake and they told me that an attic mount was not really a good idea for me since I have "cool ply" board in the attic (energy effeciency stuff). So I would want to mount outdoors. Anyone have any suggestions on Antennas I should look towards given this? Again I am the guy in Lantana/Argyle TX.

Obviously if I have to mount on the roof I want it to be as small as possible.


David

I live just down the road (407) from you in Lewisville. We have a Radio Shack antenna mounted on the chimney and have no trouble pulling in the OTA stations. We also get the CBS affiliate (12-1) from Sherman. I tried an amp from Radio Shack but it seemed to be too much--took it out. Our mast puts the antenna about 20' off the ground but we are on the downslope of a hill and I wanted to get over my neighbors house.

Originally posted by billt1111
Directv will launch 2 more satellites in 2005 to add 500 more channels and bandwidth, and 2 more in 2007 to add an additional 1000 channels and bandwidth. The additional satellites and bandwidth will add more HD content, more local HD channels, and 'other enhancements'. I would stick with Directv and see what happens. For comcast to keep up they would have to run fiber to your house.

http://digital-lifestyles.info/display_page.asp?section=distribution&id=1569

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/headline.dsp?id=09_08_2004A

Thanks--As I read the press releases, the two satellites in 2005 are going to provide local HD coverage--I get that OTA. If more national HD doesn't come until 2007, that's a long way off. It seems that DirecTV is primarily interested in expanding their local marketing potential in smaller metro areas. The only area that I care about is DFW.

Clearly switching to Comcast would be much cheaper than buying a $999 HD Tivo. I'm just trying to figure out what I could expect from PQ.

I was reading the info about how in DFW you can receive NBC and CBS via Direct TV since the station is owned by a central entity. Is there a catch with that offer for those of us in this DFW metroplex area or is it that simple?

Hi all...

Please help me understand something. I just stuck an OTA antenna up in my attic and got everything all plugged up. Did a channel scan and I get several digial channels plus even more analogs.

I start flipping through anxious to see some brilliantly clear pictures...and I'm still waiting. I happened to catch COPS and it was in HD. I definitely saw the difference there. It was full screen and really clear. The rest of the channels are pretty crappy. The info display when you change channels tells me that some things are 720p and others are 1080i but it doesn't look any different than SD, even has the black bars down the sides. What gives?

Plus, I can't seem to get any audio out of the opticial cable. Will it only spit out DD stuff via OTA or can I get even 2 channel audio from the optical? I thought that I had maybe hooked it up wrong or my AVR wasn't configured correctly, but I believe it is. I hooked it into the DVR/VCR2 optical port and assigned optical 2 (where it's hooked into) to that setting, but no sound.

I have the TV set to variable out. I tried looking in the manual but I didn't see what I'm missing.

Please tell me that HD is better than this...

also, I know that I haven't perfectly directed my antenna just yet, but I would expect that I either get a signal or I don't (or maybe lots of drops). I get a pretty solid signal (no meter) but it's not HD.

Ideas are greatly appreciated as this isn't exactly what I thought it would be, but I know it's probably user error or misunderstanding, so please enlighten me.

Thanks all!

On the audio, I cannot attest to. However, it sounds like you have the video straight.

Your TV is displaying 1080i because the signal being transmitted by the station is 1080i. However the video they are passing through the signal is not.

Tomorrow you will be amazed when you watch the football game. DAL/NO(FOX)and NYJ/PIT(CBS) will be in HD. On FOX you should see 720p and on CBS you should see 1080i.

Unless your TV is a DLP set. When watching non-hd shows with the black bars, you MUST stretch it to fit the screen or you will permanantly burn the black bars in your screen.

Look here for more info on HDTV programming.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164671

It says ABC is 720p. WFAA is the only ABC station in the country doing 1080i

Originally posted by davidan
I was reading the info about how in DFW you can receive NBC and CBS via Direct TV since the station is owned by a central entity. Is there a catch with that offer for those of us in this DFW metroplex area or is it that simple?

Yes, you can get NBCHD(WNBC) CH82 and CBSHD(WCBS) CH80 without waivers and it's free...no catch. When FOX goes on soon you will qualify for that as well.

WFAA is the only one of the "Big 4" networks that is not network O/O.
When ABCHD comes on you will need a waiver to get it. If you are in the metro area: Dallas, Tarrant, Denton, Collin, Kaufman, Johnson, and Parker counties. Then you can forget the waiver. Don't even try it.

I got waivers for CBS and ABC but was denied FOX and NBC. I live near Sulphur Springs. 10 more miles to the east then I would have got them, However, I would have needed a waiver from KLTV in Tyler for ABC.

To sum it up, when all the networks are on D* HD I will have them all (EST) and will have HD west coast for ABC and CBS.

Thanks MP3Trojan - I will definitely look for that.

I think I've got the audio part figured out in that my Sony GW4 (neglected to mention) will not digitize the analog audio.

In any case, can't wait to see some football in HD.

:D


Thanks for the info!

Originally posted by Chad0429
Hi all...

Please help me understand something. I just stuck an OTA antenna up in my attic and got everything all plugged up. Did a channel scan and I get several digial channels plus even more analogs.

I start flipping through anxious to see some brilliantly clear pictures...and I'm still waiting. I happened to catch COPS and it was in HD. I definitely saw the difference there. It was full screen and really clear. The rest of the channels are pretty crappy. The info display when you change channels tells me that some things are 720p and others are 1080i but it doesn't look any different than SD, even has the black bars down the sides. What gives?

Plus, I can't seem to get any audio out of the opticial cable. Will it only spit out DD stuff via OTA or can I get even 2 channel audio from the optical? I thought that I had maybe hooked it up wrong or my AVR wasn't configured correctly, but I believe it is. I hooked it into the DVR/VCR2 optical port and assigned optical 2 (where it's hooked into) to that setting, but no sound.

I have the TV set to variable out. I tried looking in the manual but I didn't see what I'm missing.

Please tell me that HD is better than this...

also, I know that I haven't perfectly directed my antenna just yet, but I would expect that I either get a signal or I don't (or maybe lots of drops). I get a pretty solid signal (no meter) but it's not HD.

Ideas are greatly appreciated as this isn't exactly what I thought it would be, but I know it's probably user error or misunderstanding, so please enlighten me.

Thanks all!


At this current time, none of the stations are broadcasting HD 100% of the time. You will usually see more HD during primetime, or on special events. Once it gets further along (~2006), then stations will have increased HD content, until that will be mostly what they all have. You should be able to pick up the digital stations, and although the station is not broadcasting HD all the time, the digital (480p) signal should look sharper than what the analog signal looked like. It will be dvd quality, mostly.

Originally posted by mp3trojan
Yes, you can get NBCHD(WNBC) CH82 and CBSHD(WCBS) CH80 without waivers and it's free...no catch. When FOX goes on soon you will qualify for that as well.


I forgot one thing...You must subscribe to either the HD pack or your local channel package then it's free.

Cool thanks a lot, I really appreciate all of you guys help. One more question (for the moment). If I call Direct TV and subscribe to their service, will they handle the off air antenna install? And do they provide it? Or do I need to already have one exisisting.

I haven't heard of that. But you can buy the antenna and pay the installer on the side to put it up.

Just to post a reply - I was able to *finally* see some good quality HD today on Fox during the football games. Thank y'all for the information as it helped me understand what all is going on.

Now, if only HDTivo prices would come down a bunch...but for now I'm very satisfied.

Thanks again

Good for you. Welcome to HDTV. Do you have TiVo in one of your other rooms? If so, YOUR CRAVING WILL GROW(subliminal).........If you have not experienced TiVo it will completely change the world of TV for you. I put it off for years until I got my hands on a SD TiVo and put it in the bedroom. It took a week to get hooked. About 6 weeks ago I got a HD TiVo and I will NEVER be without one again. I know where to get them for $850. BB and CC are making $200 off of everyone they sell. Wholesale price is $799

I predict that HD TiVo prices will only drop about $100 within the next 4-6 months. I doubt they will ever drop below $600 until the market is saturated, and that will be a while.

The HR10-250 HD TiVo is the ULTIMATE companion to your new HDTV.

Howdy,

I am new to this forum and just set up my HDTV receiver, Samsung T451 this weekend with a RS catalog number 15-2156 antenna in my attic. Things have gone well with the exception of Fox4- DT . I get no signal strength. I was wondering if they have cut power or are off the air as I got a pixelated picture last weekend with some rabbit ears. I have reaimed my antenna without any results and can't get anything on the rabbit ears either. Anyone else in Corinth/ Denton had any problems? I appreciate the help anyone else can provide.

Sincerely,
Mike T
CCT

All good here. Sig. strength 92. Are you sure your antenna is pointing in the right direction? As stated before I am 77.5 (crow flies) miles from the source and my sig. is 92. You should be pointing almost due south and the side of the ant. with the "v shaped array is the front of the antenna.

4-1 KDFW is one of the strongest digital signals in Dallas

Also when assembling the antenna, did you connect the UHF network?? Where the cable and balun(twin lead converter) connects is where the front and the back of the antenna connect. Also the elements along the boom that criss-cross cannot touch each other.

I can now watch Fox4-DT with excellent signal strength. It show up on channel 35 after autosetting. I thought I read where they had switched to 36 or something. For some reason my receiver did not assign it to 4-DT as it did other stations/channels. Thanks for the help. I will just have to keep trying things on the receiver and see what happens.

MIKE ET

Good to hear. Most likely after you directly tune to 35 it will now be 4-1.

MP3 - yes. I'm aware of the world of Tivo. I've got 2 SD Tivo's in my house. Unfortunately for me, I just can't justify spending 800 on an HD Tivo right now. I just spent a whole bunch on this new TV, new AVR, new DVD, new floor standing speakers and new sub and a new cabinet to stick the TV on.

I've been looking at the HDTivo's and had planned on getting one but they're just too expensive. Oh well, it's something to look forward to. I think 5/600 is a fair price, but 800 is just too much for me.

I was thinking about hocking one of my Tivo's on Ebay to help recover some of the money but I just don't see me getting 2/300 for a 40hr D*Tivo. Stand alone, I'm sure I could get some more for it.

Anyway - enough of my belly-acheing (sp?) about how expensive it is. I'll just enjoy what I have and see where the market for these go. :)

Thanks for the info and replies!

I didn't either. I liquidated some radio gear for mine. I had it laying around. I would have never come out of my pocket for one.

Glad I could help.

Did anyone notice any problems with Desperate Housewives last night? I've had my FusionHDTV for over three months, and I haven't had a problem (attributable to the Fusion) until last night. I got 42 seconds of black in a 1.09 GB file. The app didn't crash, and I'm sure I saw the recording dialog working about 55 minutes into the program. The Fusion is very picky (it crashes if I try to record KERA-DT, with their current faulty signal), so I'm wondering if the ABC signal was messed up around 7:57? Did anyone else notice this.

I'm doubly upset. First, I missed Desperate Housewives. And second, since I can't figure out what went wrong, there's no way I can be sure it won't happen again!

Xesdeeni

I did not notice any hiccups last night. I watched it live and recorded it(HR10-250) and all went well. I dunno.

Anyone having problems with Fox 4.1? Last week I was able to get it just fine and yesterday/today I'm having a hard time keeping the signal locked. It's unwatchable b/c I get about 10-20s worth of content then it pixelates and drops signal and comes right back to start it all over again.

I'm able to get ABC just fine and antennaweb says that Fox and ABC are both 167 degrees and the same milage from where I am. All other stations come in just fine too.

Maybe Fox is having problems? Anyone know or know who I can contact to find out?

I am watching the redskins v. niners game with high signal strength at the moment. I didn't have any problems Thursday night, but was not watching on Friday. Have your problems persisted or gone away?

They come and go. I was able to lock in and watch with only minor pixellation but it's only in about 10 minute increments then it drops for a bit and picks back up. Quite annoying.

I do have a non directional antenna but I could stand to probably aim it a little better. I may try that tomorrow.

Thx for the info - appears to be just me. BTW - I'm just north of you off of Post Oak right at the border of Denton.

Good luck! I put up my RS antenna I bought down at the FM2181 store last Saturday in my attic. It is very large, but seems to work well other than the fact my Samsung T451 did not reassign Fox4-DT from channel 35 similar to what it did for the other channels. It also does not pick up the call letters like it does most of the other stations. Who knows maybe that will change, but not in the last week.

Just noticed today that channel 5-2 is up with the radar and music. Picture looks awfully compressed(yeah). I hope this doesn't degrade the HD quality on 5-1.

Bitrate is down to about 16.7mb/s from 18.2mb/s. I noticed a marked increase in artifacts during the musical performances on the Tonight Show.

Please note that the Dallas, TX - Cable thread ended up being archived due to lack of activity (last post 6/25/04). Before the next archiving, I'll try to bump all inactive "Official" threads so they stay active. I'm changing this back to an "HDTV" for all Dallas HDTV discussion instead of "OTA only" so any Dallas AVS member has a place to go to ask any HDTV questions.

If you guys would like to keep it separate, could somebody start a thread for your local cable company with a summary of their HD offerings in the first post?

I am at the corner of Beltline and MacArthur in Coppell Texas
well one block east of there

can I use this antenna in my apartment
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/rf-cable-satellite.html#ant

or does someone have a better option for an antenna
just got my TV and need some help finding an indoor antenna

bump

I live in an apartment in Lewisville, Texas and need an indoor antenna. What is the best one to try first? I am looking at the Zenith silver sensor mentioned on this site. I know that an outdoor antenna would be the better option but I have no room living in an apartment. I have also seen people on this forum reference a $50 radio shack amplified antenna that seems to work well. What would be my best option to start with? I checked on antennaweb and I about roughly a little less than 30 miles from the nearest transmitter (NBC, CBS, ABC, etc). I have a feeling I may be out of luck but thought I would ask. Thanks in advance!

I have a question for the group that subscribes to Direct TV. How many of you are able to get your Local Channels (NBC, FOX, CBS) over Direct TV? It says that we (Dallas Market) are able to in "certain" cases get them from Direct TV without having to have an off air antenna.

Are you finding that you need to hassle them (direct tv) to get the channels or is it relatively painless?

Also do you have to do the waiver thing with the local TV broadcast companies? because if so I have heard that is painful.

I live in the FlowerMound, Argyle, TX area and am getting close to buying.

And while I am at it, worst case scenario if I can't get the locals in HD and instead get them through the normal Digital Satellite, how will they look on a 16:9 TV? Do I have to stretch them and when I do will that mess up the way they look or will it be transparent and look fine?

Originally posted by davidan
I have a question for the group that subscribes to Direct TV. How many of you are able to get your Local Channels (NBC, FOX, CBS) over Direct TV? It says that we (Dallas Market) are able to in "certain" cases get them from Direct TV without having to have an off air antenna.

Are you finding that you need to hassle them (direct tv) to get the channels or is it relatively painless?

Also do you have to do the waiver thing with the local TV broadcast companies? because if so I have heard that is painful.

I live in the FlowerMound, Argyle, TX area and am getting close to buying.

And while I am at it, worst case scenario if I can't get the locals in HD and instead get them through the normal Digital Satellite, how will they look on a 16:9 TV? Do I have to stretch them and when I do will that mess up the way they look or will it be transparent and look fine?

I have been a Pegasus/Directv subscriber in Flower Mound for 8 years and have not had any problem getting local SD channels in my D* package. No questions asked. I also get the HD package which includes CBS, NBC, and Fox HD feeds.

You should be able to get all local HD channels OTA with an attic or rooftop antenna. You cannot get local HD channels from Directv until late next year sometime. You can get SD local channels from Directv and have the option of zooming them to fit or displaying them at 4:3, depending on your STB and display capabilities. Whether they look good or not to you depends on all these factors, including your personal preferences.

You can get NBC and FOX without any problem. Our local affiliates are owned and operated by the network and give a blanket waiver to receive the HD feeds from DirecTV. CBS you may be able to get but it depends on if you are in the Sherman CBS affiliate's coverage area. They will not grant a waiver and are not owned and operated by the network. This affects Plano and areas north.

Plano area - D* gave me CBS, NBC, and FOX HD, but not ABC..

I have an odd question, so bear with me. I'm a long time Dish Network customer, and pretty happy with everything except the future of HD. It's apparent that nothing new will be added until late '05 at best, and even then that will be on the new mpeg4 technology, which means new receivers. I currently am getting HD only OTA with my TV's built-in ATSC tuner. This is fine, very good actually, but I want ESPNHD, DiscoverHD, TNTHD, HBOHD, etc.

Voom is out now for me until a decision is made on the direction of their company (maybe Dish will buy them if rumors are correct). DirecTV is an option, but would require switching our entire service and losing the investment we've made in DVRs, and my wife is not crazy about switching because she likes Dish so much. So, I was thinking about cable. My question is can I get an HD-only cable package, or would I have to subscribe to their base digital package and then their HD package? I was hoping I could get basic cable and add on HD, but I don't know if that's possible. I already have cable modem, so the physical service is here.

I'm in the Dallas area, if that makes a difference, and the cable provider is Comcast. Thanks for any advice.

Just lease a receiver from dish now. They already have the channels you want, so why worry about adding channels that don't exist yet. There will be no upfront costs with the box, so no worries...

Comcast policies vary from area to area. In most Comcast locations, you can rent a STB for $5 per month, and the local HD channels are included in any cable package, even the least expensive. The other HD channels, like INHD, Discovery HD, ESPN HD, all require a digital tier package, usually starting around $50 per month.

Dish will let you sub to the just HD package by paying a $5 access fee per month, for a total of $20. You get ESPN HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery HD, and TNT HD. The Dish HD receivers also can receive your local HD stations with an antenna.

I believe DirecTV will not let you sub to HD without a Total Choice package, perhaps others can verify.

Threads Merged.

Originally posted by CPanther95
Threads Merged.

My head is spinning. I put this in the HD programming forum initially, because it seemed to make sense, then it was moved and renamed in this forum then merged :D

Thanks for the responses, bgall and Ken H. Leasing one from Dish is an option, however, I'm really concerned because according to what I've read, they aren't adding any new programming until the end of the year, at the earliest. Meanwhile, D* and Comcast are adding HD programming. ESPN2HD is coming soon and I'm almost positive E* is not going to add it. I'm just trying to make a decision that will work well for short and long term, while trying to be somewhat budget conscious.

Send your complaints about WFAA/Belo broadcasting to:

dmuscari@wfaa.com



Issues at hand:

ABC-HD on D*. The inability to subscribe with or without a waiver.

Preempting ORIGINAL network programming for St. Jude(1/7) or Billy Graham

Quality of WFAA-DT.
email: djohnson@wfaa.com

Does anyone have a positive experience requesting waivers from WFAA or are they summarily rejected? I don't get the impression that they'd be very sympathetic even if you have a genuine OTA reception issue. The last time I submitted comments via their website I was totally ignored.

I was granted a waiver by WFAA but D* refuses me DNS or ABC-HD because D* carries Dallas locals LIL. They say it's the new law.

I live in a Grade "B" signal area

What a crock

I also have waivers for NBC, and CBS but I had them before the new law.

FYI I have called D* MANY times regarding this and I did not lose any DNS or HD.

I am in Flower Mound and am having trouble pulling in ABC-HD and also PBS-HD. But my main concern is ABC especially before the big games on Mon. and Tues. I know that Dish Net. has a CBS-HD local they can add if you in the right zip. But is there anything like that for ABC-HD?

Nope, NO ONE in the Dallas DMA can get ABC-HD from D* because WFAA is not owned by the network. Better get to working on that antenna..

What kind of ant?
Apartment or house?

Originally posted by mp3trojan
Nope, NO ONE in the Dallas DMA can get ABC-HD from D* because WFAA is not owned by the network. Better get to working on that antenna..

What kind of ant?
Apartment or house?

Belo is the debbil :mad:

BTW spinguy, I'm in Flower Mound and picking up ABC and PBS HDs just fine right now. Haven't watched them today, so don't know if it was an issue earlier or not.

All good here 77.5 miles from the tower. Sig 90%

thanks for the replies....

I am using the amplified Winegard Sensar II or III...GS 2200. Looks like I am going to have to get the install guy back out to get it a little higher.

Or pointed correctly. That antenna if outdoors in F.M. should be close to 100%

I have seen 100% using that antenna from a customers living room in McKinney.

Just stop watching ABC and send them a letter to the previous mentioned email address and tell them so. If they get enough complaints they will finally listen.

Hi Everyone, I finally did the HDTV thing over this holiday season, and I wanted to post for this DFW group my experiences, in hope that it will help other newbies like myself as you explore the Digital TV world!!!

First of all I have to say thanks to all of you in this thread and forums in general that have helped answer my questions, it has been a tremendous help.

Here is my situation

1. I live in Lantana, TX, (just nw of Flower Mound in Denton County) As a point of reference I am about 10 miles east of Texas Motor Speedway off FM 407.

2. I ended up buying a Samsung HLP5063 DLP Set, which seems really nice thusfar

3. I switched from Dish Network to Direct TV since they seem to have their act together more on HDTV. I avoided VOOM due to the uncertainty of their future and wanting to minimize long-term change

My lessons learned

Most important, you can get lots of good and bad advice, of which I received both, but in the end, long story short you have to do it to see what the outcome is.

For instance.

A) Antennaweb.org said I would need a gigantic Large Directional Antenna on my roof to get signal.
B) the guy at Home Theater Store told me that there was no chance I could pull a signal from an antenna in my attic since I had cool ply.

Both of these were wrong, I got a Antenna included from Direct TV, that they installed in my attic, with the cool ply, which is no larger than the satellite dish itself, and I am pulling the locals in at 90+ strength. The Direct TV guy told me that while the Antenna web site is useful that EVERY INSTALLATION IS UNIQUE, because the Signal Bounces around so much on the Terrestial broadcast. He's seen folks get great signal in one place, and go two houses next door and get no signal. I think that's probably somewhat extreme, but in my case I live approx 40 miles from the tower in Cedar Hill (35 to be exact) and thusfar it seems to be working (Fingers Crossed)

C) You will get lots of opinions on what is good and what is bad on TV selection, for me it came down to going with a recognizable yet affordable brand that looked good in the store and got decent reviews from reputable sources

D) Assume the folks at Direct TV (if you deal with them) generally have no clue on HD. I live in O&O obviously so I wanted to also make sure I got them to turn on the NBC, CBS, and FOX feeds for me as a safety net in case I need them. Many folks told me this would be no issue and they would do it automatically. This was not the case, when they activated my service they did not turn these on automatically , nor within a day or two. So I had to call them about 5-6 times and escalate it to their Customer Service Management to finally educate them on what needed to be done. If you call them and ask for them to turn on the locals I get the feeling they are really resistant to do so because of this new legislation law and they have no clue on the differences between O&O and DNS. So the default answer was NO. When I dealt with their management (not taking no for an answer) they told me that yes I could get them but that I had a technical issue so they transferred me to tech support. Tech support told me I needed to go to the HD Eligibility Group and they could transfer me. When they did the line Dropped! lol! But they gave me the key piece of info,

when you call ask immediately for HD Eligibility Group.
When I did this on another callback I got transferred after sweet talking the front line CSR. AS soon as I got to this HD Group they turned on the channels within 5 minutes. I have also been told you can ask for them at extension 721

E) last but not least, be prepared to immediately want to get a new DVD Player, HD recordable unit, etc if you are anything like me. I see the HD then start reading stuff and find that my older DVD player is past its time, and I want to record again, but the DVR units are expensive :) Also, the cables to connect your TV properly such as the DVI,HDMI stuff are expensive as all get out from local places. There is a store or two online that you can buy them for a lot cheaper. but if you need an HDMI cable for instance in a pinch and go to your local radio shack, expect to pay close to 100 bucks for it.



When it was all said and done, I got the TV, I got the service, the Antenna worked, and I watched the Sugar Bowl and Orange Bowl in HD! It looks totally awesome!!! :)

Goodluck and hope this is helpful to someone.


David

Good summary. Did you get all the local DFW SD channels activated with D* as well with no problems?

Yes I was able to get the regular SD channels from D* without any problems, it was only those national HD feeds that I had to haggle with them about.

Forgive me if I'm totally clueless here.....but I have Directv and get local SD channels (from before I upgraded to HD). I get the digital local channels OTA with an antenna. Are you saying that you can get the digital local channels through Directv? Or are you talking about the national network channels (CBS,NBC,ABC etc channels after hdnet)? Currently, I don't get those...I get the "call for subscription info". Are those the ones you say I should be getting as part of the HD package with Diretv?

Thanks for the info.

You can get NBC, CBS, and FOX. But not ABC. ABC is not owned by the network. The others are and all thats needed is a phone call and they are free.

After reading the last few posts I figured why shouldnt I have the National feeds if im intitled to em. Well it took me about 20 min on the phone first with a CSR who was clueless then she transferred me to the wrong spot and I was finally transferred to the right person. Took them about 30 sec and up pops the channels. I really do think that everyone who is entitled to the channels owes it to themselves to get em. Im paying a minor fortune to D* every month and I figure I might as well squeeze every last channel out of em that I can.

Jason

ps. They gave me the east coast feeds I would MUCH rather have the west Coast feeds is that possible?

Originally posted by jmont24
They gave me the east coast feeds I would MUCH rather have the west Coast feeds is that possible?


Not without waivers. If you are even close to the metroplex you can forget it.

I live in McKinney, TX (Stonebridge Ranch) and just thought I'd post my experience in setting up OTA antenna in my attic to receive HDTV signals. First of all, AntennaWeb.org indicated I would only be able to get 2 digital stations (I'm approximately 46 miles from Cedar Hill):

* violet - uhf KTVT-DT 11.1 CBS FORT WORTH TX 192° 44.8 19
* violet - uhf KERA-DT 13.1 PBS DALLAS TX 192° 44.8 14

I've learned that Antennaweb.org is very conservative. I live at the bottom of a hill, with the hill directed to the south of me. Not a good position to be in since the broadcast towers are all south of me. It was apparent I would most likely need a high gain antenna and a pre-amp. My roof line is quite a steep pitch, thus I was more interested in testing a bow-tie vertically designed antenna first since I could get it to the highest point in my attic. I purchased a DB8 antenna from antennasdirect.com. Also picked up a powered channel master 7777 pre-amp. Picked up an LG LST-3510A HDTV tuner from BB. Installed everything but the pre-amp, did an auto-tune and was immediately able to get CBS (Dallas and Sherman), FOX, NBC, PBS, UPN, WB and several other other independents on HD and SD.

Installed the Channel Master 7777 pre-amp and then ABC came right in with a digital HDTV signal. Could not get KDFI channel 27. Not sure they are broadcasting HD or not. Only problem is PBS signal is always there, but sometimes it gets very pixelated and drops bits and pieces of the image.

_______
rkhobbit

Also forgot to add that I removed the FM trap setting on the Channel Master pre-amp, hooked up the coax from my anntenna to my stereo receiver and starting receiving all kinds of local FM stations

Thanks for the great info....called directv, asked for HD eligibility dept., got right though, got channels turned on....not sure why I need them since I get all the locals here, but if it's something I'm entitled to then I want it!! Heh, heh.

Gotta go....Mavs/Lakers on HDnet!!!

Originally posted by boristhedog
Forgive me if I'm totally clueless here.....but I have Directv and get local SD channels (from before I upgraded to HD). I get the digital local channels OTA with an antenna. Are you saying that you can get the digital local channels through Directv? Or are you talking about the national network channels (CBS,NBC,ABC etc channels after hdnet)? Currently, I don't get those...I get the "call for subscription info". Are those the ones you say I should be getting as part of the HD package with Diretv?

Thanks for the info.

You can get SD local channels from D*, not digital local channels. Digital local channels are supposed to be available sometime late this year after they launch their next satellite. As the other poster noted you can get national digital/HD feeds, excluding ABC.

Hello all,

I'm considering a move to the Dallas area from Denver, where OTA HDTV is a joke. It seems like things are much better in your area.

I'd be working in Garland, so I planning to focus my home search in that general area. Can someone give me some tips on places to avoid as far as HDTV reception is concerned?

Also, can I get by with an indoor antenna in that area, or should I plan on packing up the one on my roof?

And although it doesn't belong in this thread, I'd really appreciate it if someone could give me the scoop on the other aspects of life around there (which schools are good, etc.). Feel free to PM me.

Thanks for any help!

Eric

Squidboy,

Texas could always use some more HD junkies. We're happy to have you headed this way.

The DFW Metroplex is very stable for Digital OTA. You should be fine with a big piece of metal in the attic somewhere as the Garland area is within 15-20 miles from antenna central. I can't speak of personal experience since I live on the west side of town (Garland being East), but you shouldn't have any problems as I am roughly 20-25 miles from the antennas. The only channel I have issues with is the local NBC, but DirectTV solved that riddle by offering the NBC east feed for me. Other than that, I get all the major networks at high signal strength with an antenna in the attic.

As far as Garland goes you should enjoy the area. I landed on the west side of Dallas closer to the airport based on every travel so I can't elaborate too much on the specifics of Garland. I'm sure you have read this site but I thought it may be of assistance.

http://www.ci.garland.tx.us/Home

Let us know how it all turns out and if you have any questions.

I have a Mitsubishi 55613 prtv that is capable of displaying 480i, 480p and 1080i, but not 720p. I am able to get all the networks HD signal. I even get FOX in HD even though they says they are broadcasting in 720p. Is FOX really broadcasting 1080i in the DFW area like ABC does or is my set upconverting the picture. Mitsubishi says my set is not able to do that.

Thanks

Your set is upconverting.

Fox is really broadcasting 720p. The built in tuner in your TV converts that to 1080i, and your TV displays a 1080i image. The TV can not accept a 720p signal on its component inputs or sync at that scan rate. The internal tuner does the conversion.

Is anyone else having problems with WFAA DT today? Their signal today here is 30-40%. The others are fine 80-90%. Is this just me?

Mine is normally 93% solid and today it seems to be dropping into the 79-86% Range. I live in Argyle, TX.

It's up to 58 here. When the sun set here, the transmitters were between me and the sun. Kind of like satellite sunouts in the spring and fall. Don't know how much that would affect VHF but it's a thought. My DTC-100 OTA receiver is doing a SUPER job handling the low signal. The wife hijacked the big TV with the HR10-250 so I cannot comment on that receiver's reception....YET!!!

Ok, I'm watching the game and at times it's unwatchable. It's an intermittant problem. All is good 75-80 and then it drops to 20-30 and the picture goes out. Signal at time of this post is 21. All other DFW stations are as normal. I do understand that WFAA DT is the only station in Dallas that uses the VHF band. KERA is the closest at ch14. That signal is 75.

Mine is fine here in Southlake. I will advise that I have had to replace two Sony HD300s due to the OTA tuner going out. The latest model (HD300) is working fine on WFAA.

Do you have your OTA feed going to any other receiver that you can test the signal with? When I went through this issue, I had a Sony HD200 on a different set that never suffered signal loss so I knew something was wrong with the previous two HD300 receivers.

Just some food for thought.

I have the HDVR Tivo and have had 2 or 3 HD to SD drops myself. Seems to have been corrected in the last few minutes. Others have mentioned this is a national problem.

I hope this is the right forum.

I'm using Dish Network's 811 receiver for OTA. FOX's HD (from Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX) never really looks that good to me. Yesterday, however, it was really bad. My other OTA HD channels look fine. I don't think it has anything to do with FOX transmitting in 720p, because ABC and ESPN look great. I've found that leaving the 811 set to 1080i usually results in the best picture no matter what the source, even though my monitor (Samsung 61" DLP: HLN617W) is 720p native. I did a quick comparison just to be sure, and setting the 811 to 720p did not help matters. It wasn't much better than SD for some reason.

Does anyone else have problems with Dallas/Ft. Worth's transmission of FOX in HD?

FWIW I'm using components.

Don't know about 1/6 but It did seem like the game yesterday looked bad.

Doh! That's what I meant. I don't know why I'm off 3 days! Yes, I was referring to the game on 1/9.

Yeah I thought the game looked pretty bad as well yesterday. 24, although a good show, didn't look much better.

Originally posted by 120inna55


Does anyone else have problems with Dallas/Ft. Worth's transmission of FOX in HD?

FWIW I'm using components.

Generally speaking, no. I didn't watch much football yesterday, but I am usually pretty happy with the Fox broadcast HD. I'll watch with a little more critical eye tonight to see if maybe I just haven't been paying attention... :)

-Randy

The Super Bowl will be on FOX, right? So, I guess it'll look like crap.

If you are talking about the Packer/Viking game it looked spectacular, IMHO, at Lambeau Field. On my 50" panny plasma I could see the individual blades of grass (what little there was of it) mixed in with the muddy painted field. I could even see the mist droplets of rain. I was switching back and forth between channel 88 on D* HD east and 4-1. 4-1 was slightly better for obvious reasons. CBS HD is still the best of all sports IMO but the others are catching up.

By the way I have the national HD feeds for Fox east, NBC east, and CBS east. Has anyone successfully talked their way into getting the west feeds? I would prefer them so I can watch shows in Pacific time that I missed earlier in the evening. But apparently there is a policy of some sort not allowing viewers a preference.

The Packs/Vikes game looks fine to me.

What do you guys mean when you say it looks bad? Lots of artifacts? Fuzzy?

The colors in the game is not as vibrant as the other game, but you have to consider that this game was played during dusk so the stadium lighting needs to be adjusted as the game moved on. Also, the rain and mist contributed to the fadeness of the colors.

I thought the game looked excellent as well.

Originally posted by 120inna55
The Super Bowl will be on FOX, right? So, I guess it'll look like crap.

Looks like you are about 70 or so miles from the towers. If the other channels are coming in fine then I would recommend you "slightly" adjust your antenna. I recently had to do that to my antenna after I took the latest software update for my 811 (current software is now 284). I am finding as you get further the away from the towers, the signal is not quite as "forgiving" as the old analog. But he PQ is 1000% better. As an aside, FOX was brilliant (unlike GB!)

Originally posted by dtle
The Packs/Vikes game looks fine to me.

What do you guys mean when you say it looks bad? Lots of artifacts? Fuzzy?

The colors in the game is not as vibrant as the other game, but you have to consider that this game was played during dusk so the stadium lighting needs to be adjusted as the game moved on. Also, the rain and mist contributed to the fadeness of the colors.


I mean the picture was soft, fuzzy and just not very vibrant. There must have been a problem with their sideline camera because every shot was MUCH darker than their play-by-play main camera. Some of their cameras looked like they were fogged up or had been damaged by the rain. Compared to a ESPN HD or ABC Monday night game FOX doesn't come close in my opinion.

Okay here's a newbie question for DFW area OTA HDTV broadcasts...

When a channel such as NBC channel 5.1 or CBS 11.1, stops broadcasting HD and outputs SD, does the native picture size change? For example, if I'm using an ASPECT ratio setting on my LG tuner to be determined by the signal source, will my picture go from Wide Screen 16:9 (HD) to a native 4:3 screen with black bars when the broadcast changes from HD to SD?

_______
rkhobbit

Originally posted by rkhobbit
Okay here's a newbie question for DFW area OTA HDTV broadcasts...

When a channel such as NBC channel 5.1 or CBS 11.1, stops broadcasting HD and outputs SD, does the native picture size change? For example, if I'm using an ASPECT ratio setting on my LG tuner to be determined by the signal source, will my picture go from Wide Screen 16:9 (HD) to a native 4:3 screen with black bars when the broadcast changes from HD to SD?

_______
rkhobbit

Yep...thats the way it works. There could be variables involved such as what setting your tv is set to and how that works with your tuner,,,,,but the short answer is YES.