KTAQ is shutting off their analog on/before 2/17, making them the only DFW station to do so. As mentioned by russ26, KXII in Sherman killed their analog already and has temporary authority to begin broadcasting on their post-transition digital channel 12 pending approval of the construction permit. As for the Waco-Temple-Bryan DMA, the entire market is shutting off analog on/before 2/17 with the exception of KAMU in College Station.

Is WFAA waiting until June 12th to go full power digital?

I haven't seen any of our stations officially say they will stay on till the end. KDFW, KDFI, KTVT, KTXA, and KXAS probably will since they are network-operated, but I checked all their websites and didn't see anything that explicitly stated that the station will be shutting down analog on a specific day.

I haven't seen any of our stations officially say they will stay on till the end. KDFW, KDFI, KTVT, KTXA, and KXAS probably will since they are network-operated, but I checked all their websites and didn't see anything that explicitly stated that the station will be shutting down analog on a specific day.


Thanks. I saw on the news all of the local Waco stations were switching on Feb 17th, but I'm not sure of the status on the D/FW stations...

KTAQ is shutting off their analog on/before 2/17, making them the only DFW station to do so.

Not many folks will notice that station shutting down -- according to "Television Factbook", they averaga a whopping 779 viewers per day! (As a side note, I'm sure that the statistical variability on that small of a number is huge.)

They could probably afford to buy converter boxes for each viewer and send their engineer out to each viewer's home ensure that it is installed and set up correctly.

KTAQ is shutting off their analog on/before 2/17, making them the only DFW station to do so.

KSTR-TV 49 signed off last month. They had a "nightlight" slide up for almost 3 weeks before signing off completely.

KLDT-TV signed off several years ago in favor of their current digital station (DT 54). Since this station is in bankruptcy, I will be curious as to who ends up with it and what programming replaces the informercials (if any).

KSTR-TV 49 signed off last month. They had a "nightlight" slide up for almost 3 weeks before signing off completely.

KLDT-TV signed off several years ago in favor of their current digital station (DT 54). Since this station is in bankruptcy, I will be curious as to who ends up with it and what programming replaces the informercials (if any).
Of course, I meant the only ones remaining. Sucks that WFAA chickened out. Having them shut down now would pretty much guarantee that the entire market will be ready whenever everyone else decides to, since few viewers would be willing to go without a major network like that.

Hi

This thread is way too long to read all the pages.. I am living in south plano/north dallas area. Which antenna is the best one thats indoors?

Also anyone know of a antenna that has at least 1 coax input and 1 output(TV)

my tv only has 1 coax input for cable/antenna but i also have cable.

My current cheapo walmart brand has input from cable then out to tv from the antenna but it adds a lot of snow/noise.

Hi

This thread is way too long to read all the pages.. I am living in south plano/north dallas area. Which antenna is the best one thats indoors?

Also anyone know of a antenna that has at least 1 coax input and 1 output(TV)

my tv only has 1 coax input for cable/antenna but i also have cable.

My current cheapo walmart brand has input from cable then out to tv from the antenna but it adds a lot of snow/noise.

Try the Terk HDTVi, which is available through Amazon. I've had good success with it in Central Plano, although WFAA-DT can be kind of touchy to receive. A friend also just bought one to use in his apartment in Far North Dallas, and is getting similar results.

There's no such thing as a good indoor antenna for this market (or any other that has stations on VHF). The least bad indoor antenna is probably the Winegard SS-3000, but its performance on VHF is actually worse than a correctly adjusted pair of rabbit ears.

I noticed that channel 5/NBC here in Dallas has no program information on my HDTV converter box or through my TVGOS DVR or through my HDTV information. Has anyone else noticed this and do you know if this is just a temporary glitch?


I had the same problem and I sent an email to the station. The PSIP schedule data reappeared on Monday but I haven't received a response to my email.

Today I had a different problem with 5.1. The optical Dolby Digital output went silent. (Only for 5.1 as all other stations worked normally.) This appeared on both a recording starting about noon and live this evening. Strangely the analog stereo outputs (and the output of a CM-7000 converter) worked fine. Shortly after 8 the optical output magically started working again.

Is anyone familiar with this antenna?

[IMG]http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/667/productthumbphpvy8.gif (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=productthumbphpvy8.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/img4/productthumbphpvy8.gif/1/)

DB8 Multidirectional HDTV Antenna It is supposedly good for signals up to 70 miles away. I'm guessing I would also need a preamp? I'm fairly new to all of this.

I live about an hour West of Waco and hour and a half Southwest of Dallas/Fort Worth. I'm looking for a antenna to pull in stations from both cities. Can anyone recommend one?

josh - you are in a very challenging location for OTA reception, all your signals are very weak and none of the stations are line-of-sight (except K49HT - see later), some of them are on VHF which the DB8 will not receive, and the DB8 UHF performance while OK is not the best and you will certainly need every ounce of signal to get consistent reception in your location. The best possible solution for your location would be to use two antennas - a VHF antenna like the Winegard YA1713, and a UHF "deep fringe" antenna the 91XG, mounted as high as possible and with a rotor so you can rotate the antennas to the two different directions you will need to try for both DFW and Waco. The 91XG can also be tilted up slightly which many people report gives better reception for very distant stations. The best combination antenna is going to be the Winegard HD 7698p http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7698P but it is almost certainly not as good as having individual antennas for VHF and UHF.

I would normally recommend the CM7777 preamp because it's a great preamp and also can couple the two antennas together, but looking at your TVfool.com results I am concerned about a station K49HT which is close to you and has a very strong signal; it's possible this could overload the preamp. The Winegard HDP269 is usually recommended for these situations - not as high gain as the CM7777 but less susceptible to overload. The only way to know if the CM7777 will have a problem is to try it.

Even if your signals are strong enough, you also might have a problem receiving KCEN Waco and KFWD Dallas because after the digital transition they will occupy the same real frequency (channel 9) and so their signals will probably interfere with each other, particularly at night when VHF signals tend to travel further.

josh - you are in a very challenging location for OTA reception, all your signals are very weak and none of the stations are line-of-sight (except K49HT - see later), some of them are on VHF which the DB8 will not receive, and the DB8 UHF performance while OK is not the best and you will certainly need every ounce of signal to get consistent reception in your location. The best possible solution for your location would be to use two antennas - a VHF antenna like the Winegard YA1713, and a UHF "deep fringe" antenna the 91XG, mounted as high as possible and with a rotor so you can rotate the antennas to the two different directions you will need to try for both DFW and Waco. The 91XG can also be tilted up slightly which many people report gives better reception for very distant stations. The best combination antenna is going to be the Winegard HD 7698p http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7698P but it is almost certainly not as good as having individual antennas for VHF and UHF.

I would normally recommend the CM7777 preamp because it's a great preamp and also can couple the two antennas together, but looking at your TVfool.com results I am concerned about a station K49HT which is close to you and has a very strong signal; it's possible this could overload the preamp. The Winegard HDP269 is usually recommended for these situations - not as high gain as the CM7777 but less susceptible to overload. The only way to know if the CM7777 will have a problem is to try it.

Even if your signals are strong enough, you also might have a problem receiving KCEN Waco and KFWD Dallas because after the digital transition they will occupy the same real frequency (channel 9) and so their signals will probably interfere with each other, particularly at night when VHF signals tend to travel further.


I appreciate your feedback. Here's the story. I bought one of these http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=7197 and the performance was great. Between Waco, and D/FW, I was able to get about 35 channels and I didn't have to rotate much. The performance really is great. Antenna web says I'm not able to pick up any stations, but I was. I think these sites can be a bit conservative side. The problem with that antenna is that it was so cheaply made that is broke where the coax cable screws on from rotation. The performance was excellent, but the workmanship was poor. So, even with a cheap antenna I am able to get more channels than it says I can. However, I was looking for something a bit more sturdy.

Oh, and FYI, I have a 40 foot pole on the side of my house from the roof up....and I'm on a bit of a hill.

So my next question, if I were to buy two antennas, how do i connect them in order to do a channel scan for my HDTV?

Thanks so much for your help...

I appreciate your feedback. Here's the story. I bought one of these http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=7197 and the performance was great. Between Waco, and D/FW, I was able to get about 35 channels and I didn't have to rotate much. The performance really is great. Antenna web says I'm not able to pick up any stations, but I was. I think these sites can be a bit conservative side. The problem with that antenna is that it was so cheaply made that is broke where the coax cable screws on from rotation. The performance was excellent, but the workmanship was poor. So, even with a cheap antenna I am able to get more channels than it says I can. However, I was looking for something a bit more sturdy.

Oh, and FYI, I have a 40 foot pole on the side of my house from the roof up....and I'm on a bit of a hill.

So my next question, if I were to buy two antennas, how do i connect them in order to do a channel scan for my HDTV?

Thanks so much for your help...

Being on a hill and with a 40ft pole can make all the difference. Both antennaweb and the FCCs own site say you will get no stations in your zip. But if you go to tvfool.com and input your exact address you will get a better idea. However I did go to tvfool and input an antenna height of 60 feet above ground level and got much better looking numbers , but even so,
the antenna you are using claims only a 40 mile range and manufacturers usually exaggerate so you must really be in a "sweet spot" for reception. Do you receive any of the stations currently on VHF - KCEN, WFAA and KERA? And there will be a few more on VHF after the digital transition.
If you don't care about VHF stations then life may be much easier. A DB8 might do the job but a CM4228 is probably a better antenna for less money. Both these antennas are not really "multidirectional", to describe the DB8 as that is really a stretch.

. Do you receive any of the stations currently on VHF - KCEN, WFAA and KERA? And there will be a few more on VHF after the digital transition.
If you don't care about VHF stations then life may be much easier. A DB8 might do the job but a CM4228 is probably a better antenna for less money. Both these antennas are not really "multidirectional", to describe the DB8 as that is really a stretch.


Just to clarify, I down't own the DB8. I just read reviews on it and was considering. With that little antenna that broke, I could get 2,4,5,8,10,11,13,21,23,27,29,33,34,39,47,52 sometimes,58, 62 sometimes. I do get WFAA and KERA, but not KCEN so well. Mostly, I want the major networks, whether from Waco or D/FW, and then everything else I can get is great. Thanks again for your help. I will consider losing the VHF channels. That is something to think about.

It's pretty hard to get KCEN and WFAA at the same time, since both are on DT-09...

And KERA-DT is on 14. It's not a VHF digital.

- Trip

Just to clarify, I down't own the DB8. I just read reviews on it and was considering. With that little antenna that broke, I could get 2,4,5,8,10,11,13,21,23,27,29,33,34,39,47,52 sometimes,58, 62 sometimes. I do get WFAA and KERA, but not KCEN so well. Mostly, I want the major networks, whether from Waco or D/FW, and then everything else I can get is great. Thanks again for your help. I will consider losing the VHF channels. That is something to think about.

I'm considering just doing without the VHF ones as well. Right now (pre-transition), I get everything in the DFW area except WFAA (ABC, and the only VHF station) using only an amplified RS DA-5200 antenna mouted indoors. I'm midway between Denton and Decatur or about 52 miles from Cedar Hill. After the transition, I'll be losing virtual 52(IND) and 11(CBS) since they too are moving to VHF.

I really don't want to go through the expense and trouble of buying and mounting a large outdoor VHF antenna just for a couple of channels and I don't think I'm alone in that opinion. I really wish everyone had just gone to UHF only. It would have been much simpler for everyone.

I really don't want to go through the expense and trouble of buying and mounting a large outdoor VHF antenna just for a couple of channels and I don't think I'm alone in that opinion. I really wish everyone had just gone to UHF only. It would have been much simpler for everyone.

I wish so as well. For my situation, as long as I get the major networks, whether it be a Waco station or a Dallas/Fort Worth one, I'm fine.

Looking at my channel list, I don't think I'll be losing too much via VHF either.

I will. After the transition I'll be out ABC and CBS not to mention one of the better independents. I'll still be able to get all of the spanish and religious stations though. :rolleyes:

I'm on the road. Did any of the D/FW stations shut off their analog signals today???

It's pretty hard to get KCEN and WFAA at the same time, since both are on DT-09...

And KERA-DT is on 14. It's not a VHF digital.

- Trip

Sorry, you are correct about KERA.
Yes, it's surprising the OP gets WFAA rather than KCEN. With a very narrow beamwidth antenna pointed slightly south of Waco he could probably get KCEN rather than WFAA since WFAA would be out of the beam.

Just to clarify, I down't own the DB8. I just read reviews on it and was considering. With that little antenna that broke, I could get 2,4,5,8,10,11,13,21,23,27,29,33,34,39,47,52 sometimes,58, 62 sometimes. I do get WFAA and KERA, but not KCEN so well. Mostly, I want the major networks, whether from Waco or D/FW, and then everything else I can get is great. Thanks again for your help. I will consider losing the VHF channels. That is something to think about.
If you get WFAA on your current antenna (amazing at the distance), that demonstrates that the tvfool numbers are very inaccurate for your location. The CM4228 and DB8 are both UHF antennas, but the CM4228 has some VHF pickup. But looking at your current antenna, I would expect one of the smaller Winegard combo VHF/UHF antennas to work well, maybe the 7694p

I'm on the road. Did any of the D/FW stations shut off their analog signals today???

An article I read today stated that none of the significant DFW stations are discontinuing their analog signal anytime soon. I can't remember where I read it...it must have been in the DMN print edition, but I can't find it on their website. Anyway, it sounds like none that I have heard of are making the switch in the short term...

Randy

This will help: http://www.fcc.gov/021609AttachmentA.pdf

An article I read today stated that none of the significant DFW stations are discontinuing their analog signal anytime soon. I can't remember where I read it...it must have been in the DMN print edition, but I can't find it on their website. Anyway, it sounds like none that I have heard of are making the switch in the short term...

Randy

Thanks
Just wondering

Anyone gain any new channels? I'm using a temporary old antenna... but this morning I now get KTBS 3 out of Shreveport, and KTAL. I also get KMSS, which I think is FOX out of Shreveport. Also picked up KFXK and LKPN. I dont know what all these are cause I had to rush to work, but I picked these up on a crappy temporary antenna. Pretty nice. I also noticed that I get two 33.1's now. I didn't think the tuner would be able to do that.

One more question. A friend gave me another antenna, so now I have two. I would like to point one toward Waco and another toward Fort Worth/Dallas. What do I need to connect the two? How does that work with a channel scan, since I cannot manually add channels. How does the HDTV recognize the strongest signal for each channel?

UPDATE - I bought a ChannelMaster Signal "Combiner" but for some reason it only seems to pick up the signals pointed towards Waco, but the other one is not picking up anything. When they are by the antennas are connected to the tv individually, they work great. Am I still missing a piece?

You can't really combine 2 antennas pointed in different directions and expect good results. All antennas have some amount of gain outside of the main lobe, so you'll end up with 2 signals that are slightly out of phase that will confuse the tuner. The only real solutions are a rotator or running a second cable and using an A/B switch.

You can't really combine 2 antennas pointed in different directions and expect good results. All antennas have some amount of gain outside of the main lobe, so you'll end up with 2 signals that are slightly out of phase that will confuse the tuner. The only real solutions are a rotator or running a second cable and using an A/B switch.

Even if the antennas are on different ends of the house? I'm not trying to be a pain, but I see many houses with an antenna stacked on another one. I'm just wondering how this is pulled off? Also, I understand the A/B switch and rotator, but it's just a bad deal because I just got a new Samsung HDTV, and I can only do a scan, but cannot manually add channels. Say I point the antenna towards Waco, and then if i point it towards Dallas/Fort Worth, I have to do a brand new scan and I lose those channels while I gain the D/FW ones. It's 2009 and it won't let me manually add channels. Even most converter boxes can do that. Does anyone have any way around this?

Even if the antennas are on different ends of the house?

ESPECIALLY if they're on different ends of the house. A strong signal will be received by one antenna slightly later than the other, and thus creating artificial multipath.

I'm not trying to be a pain, but I see many houses with an antenna stacked on another one. I'm just wondering how this is pulled off?

If one's a VHF and the other is a UHF, then because they're using completely different frequency ranges, they can be easily combined with the right equipment.

- Trip

Josh - What happens if you do not have Ch4.1 saved and you just put in 4.1?
I could see where this migt work with digital 'remapping' of chanels.

Even if the antennas are on different ends of the house? I'm not trying to be a pain, but I see many houses with an antenna stacked on another one. I'm just wondering how this is pulled off? Also, I understand the A/B switch and rotator, but it's just a bad deal because I just got a new Samsung HDTV, and I can only do a scan, but cannot manually add channels. Say I point the antenna towards Waco, and then if i point it towards Dallas/Fort Worth, I have to do a brand new scan and I lose those channels while I gain the D/FW ones. It's 2009 and it won't let me manually add channels. Even most converter boxes can do that. Does anyone have any way around this?
You may see those stacked antennas feeding different TV's. If one is a UHF antenna and the other a VHF antenna many older TV's had separate inputs for the two antennas. In fact for a combination antenna many older TV's required a splitter to separate the UHF and VHF inputs.

Since you just bought a new, presumably HD, TV wouldn't you be a lot better off, especially in your location, with cable or satellite?

bernie - You ever ben to Hico? Look it up. Probly only satellite.

You may see those stacked antennas feeding different TV's. If one is a UHF antenna and the other a VHF antenna many older TV's had separate inputs for the two antennas. In fact for a combination antenna many older TV's required a splitter to separate the UHF and VHF inputs.

Since you just bought a new, presumably HD, TV wouldn't you be a lot better off, especially in your location, with cable or satellite?

Well, I don't really watch much tv. I'm also in money saving mode for a future wedding. The tv was actually a gift. Here's teh deal. with my one antenna towards D/FW, with a channel scan I get about 22 channels. With the antenna pointed towards Waco I get another 10 or 12. So I have the potential for several. Of course, some are just repeats of networks. Basically, I can live with the networks and a few extras. Obviously, it would just be nice to get as many that I can bring in. The real challenge is teh channel scan, as I mentioned before. I guess I could do some A/B switch, but I don't know how that would work while scanning, since I can't seem to "memorize" the channels from that scan while scanning again. I guess I can email Samsung and at least see what they say, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I guess having the locals with HD primetime programming is good enough. I'll get to satellite later on.

bernie - You ever ben to Hico? Look it up. Probly only satellite.

Fossil Rim Wildlife Park is as close as I've been. Not even sure how to pronounce Hico. Silent H and "i" sounded like "ee" as in Spanish? Like "hiccup"/"hiccough"? "Hi" "Coe" as the mountains on Colorado? ;)

Josh - What happens if you do not have Ch4.1 saved and you just put in 4.1?
I could see where this migt work with digital 'remapping' of chanels.

This does not seem to work. I can type in "4" and it brings up analog 4. I can go into my channel list and add that. I just can't seem to do it with digital channels unless I'm doing something wrong. I also know that not every digital channel that comes up on the screen is the actual channel....

Fossil Rim Wildlife Park is as close as I've been. Not even sure how to pronounce Hico. Silent H and "i" sounded like "ee" as in Spanish? Like "hiccup"/"hiccough"? "Hi" "Coe" as the mountains on Colorado? ;)

Hi-Co. ;)

Well, I don't really watch much tv. I'm also in money saving mode for a future wedding. The tv was actually a gift. Here's teh deal. with my one antenna towards D/FW, with a channel scan I get about 22 channels. With the antenna pointed towards Waco I get another 10 or 12. So I have the potential for several. Of course, some are just repeats of networks. Basically, I can live with the networks and a few extras. Obviously, it would just be nice to get as many that I can bring in. The real challenge is teh channel scan, as I mentioned before. I guess I could do some A/B switch, but I don't know how that would work while scanning, since I can't seem to "memorize" the channels from that scan while scanning again. I guess I can email Samsung and at least see what they say, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I guess having the locals with HD primetime programming is good enough. I'll get to satellite later on.
Josh, check the manual that came with your TV. If you don't have it you should be able to find it on the Samsung site. I have a Samsung TV and the manual has instructions on how to have the TV automatically find channels and also how you can manually add or delete channels. In my manual the instructions for automatic scanning are in the section labeled "Operation", the instructions for manually adding/deleting channels in a section labeled "Channel Control".

This does not seem to work. I can type in "4" and it brings up analog 4. I can go into my channel list and add that. I just can't seem to do it with digital channels unless I'm doing something wrong. I also know that not every digital channel that comes up on the screen is the actual channel....
See the section on changing channels. In my manual it is in the "Operation" section. The - on your remote is used to select 4-1, 4-2, etc.
Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_Texas for a list of stations. Clicking on most of the stations in the list will give you more detailed info. For instance, WFAA (ABC) is analog 8. The digital station is 8-1, news is 8-2, and weather is 8-3.

Josh, check the manual that came with your TV. If you don't have it you should be able to find it on the Samsung site. I have a Samsung TV and the manual has instructions on how to have the TV automatically find channels and also how you can manually add or delete channels. In my manual the instructions for automatic scanning are in the section labeled "Operation", the instructions for manually adding/deleting channels in a section labeled "Channel Control".

I will look closer at the manual. I know how to add/delete channels from the "channel list" after the scan, easy enough. I will look for channel control.

As for my two antenna situation. When I point one antenna towards Waco, I get all of those stations very strong and at night/morning most of the D/FW stations, excluding WFAA. So I did a channel scan and got everything. That antenna alone seems to do the job. If it's midday and the signals are not as strong, I will still get the Waco channels, but if I want something on Dallas Fort worth that isn't coming in well, I will get an A/B switch to the one towards Dallas Fort Worth. I think this will work for now.

One more question. A friend gave me another antenna, so now I have two. I would like to point one toward Waco and another toward Fort Worth/Dallas. What do I need to connect the two? How does that work with a channel scan, since I cannot manually add channels. How does the HDTV recognize the strongest signal for each channel?

UPDATE - I bought a ChannelMaster Signal "Combiner" but for some reason it only seems to pick up the signals pointed towards Waco, but the other one is not picking up anything. When they are by the antennas are connected to the tv individually, they work great. Am I still missing a piece?

Josh- take a close look at your Channel master signal combiner and see what frequency it is spec'd for. A lot of the "combiners" I see around seemed to be designed for one general purpose antenna and one channel-specific antenna. Also, a quick look at Channel Master products looks like anything called a combiner is aimed at combining one OTA antenna (54-900 mhz) and one satellite signal (950-2150 mhz). If you happen to have either type one of your antennas will likely not provide any signal through the combiner. You would be better off trying a simple passive splitter connected backwards to combine the two antenna signals. You may not be able to make 2 antennas work but sometimes it does.

Worth checking into anyway.

KTAQ is shutting off their analog on/before 2/17, making them the only DFW station to do so.

Can anyone confirm if KTAQ ended analog operations as scheduled?

Thanks,

Can anyone confirm if KTAQ ended analog operations as scheduled?




I'm pretty sure they did.

Does anyone have a good contact e-mail for My27? I've tried emailing them via their website as well as e-mail addresses listed on FCC website but I've gotten no response. For the past month or so they air Smackdown! either out of sync or there are loud crackling noises in the background.

NEWSFLASH -- Ch. 4 News is in HD.... FINALLY!

NEWSFLASH -- Ch. 4 News is in HD.... FINALLY!

Yes, and they let us know about it.... a lot! ;) It's fine though. I'm an HD junkie, even the news.

I live in North part of Plano, and I am using an indoor antenna (RCA) and was able to pick most of the major channels (except WFAA). I noticed about 10 days ago that I am not recieving channel 5-1 although I am able to get 5-2 and 5-3 without any issues. I scanned it again and still the same issue. I understand no one else has might have this problem (due to lack of posts). I would appreciate any help on this issue.

Thanks

I noticed about 10 days ago that I am not recieving channel 5-1 although I am able to get 5-2 and 5-3 without any issues.

Try going directly to channel 41 and see what you get. 41 is NBC's local broadcast channel number.

It's really strange that you would get the secondary sub-channels but not the 'main' sub-channel. As I understand it, all sub-channels for a given broadcast channel are combined into a single digital data stream. It's your tuner that then separates them back out into their individual sub-channels. (my description may not be technically accurate but I believe it's conceptually accurate ;))

One of NBC5's engineers is around this forum at times, so maybe he'll have an idea as well.....

MC

bernie - You ever ben to Hico? Look it up. Probly only satellite.

Most likely. but I travel Bosque, Erath, and Somervell counties a lot and almost every house has a 100' tower with a deep fringe antenna pointed to Dallas. Dont know how well they are working but they are everywhere.

Try going directly to channel 41 and see what you get. 41 is NBC's local broadcast channel number.

It's really strange that you would get the secondary sub-channels but not the 'main' sub-channel. As I understand it, all sub-channels for a given broadcast channel are combined into a single digital data stream. It's your tuner that then separates them back out into their individual sub-channels. (my description may not be technically accurate but I believe it's conceptually accurate ;))

One of NBC5's engineers is around this forum at times, so maybe he'll have an idea as well.....

MC
Not really sure how you can get sub channels and not main. We were playing around with AFD flags but found that Sony Bravia TV's don't handle the flag and you loose the channel when we send one. It has been over 3 weeks since we turned them off. We are not getting any calls so I agree your receiver does not like something or has lost our setup. I would unplug it, wait a minute, plug it back in and re-scan.

Not really sure how you can get sub channels and not main. We were playing around with AFD flags but found that Sony Bravia TV's don't handle the flag and you loose the channel when we send one. It has been over 3 weeks since we turned them off. We are not getting any calls so I agree your receiver does not like something or has lost our setup. I would unplug it, wait a minute, plug it back in and re-scan.

This may seem obvious, but also recheck your Channel list and make sure 5.1 hasn't been deleted. I did this once, while wondering why 5.2 and 5.3 were still there. Then I realized...

Not really sure how you can get sub channels and not main. We were playing around with AFD flags but found that Sony Bravia TV's don't handle the flag and you loose the channel when we send one. It has been over 3 weeks since we turned them off. We are not getting any calls so I agree your receiver does not like something or has lost our setup. I would unplug it, wait a minute, plug it back in and re-scan.

Wizsop - Thanks for response. I will try that next. I have a Sceptre brand.

Josh - How do I verify that it is not deleted? If, so how to undelete? I understand it might differ from model to model, but if you can tell me how you did it, I can look at similar setups.

Thanks

Wizsop - Thanks for response. I will try that next. I have a Sceptre brand.

Josh - How do I verify that it is not deleted? If, so how to undelete? I understand it might differ from model to model, but if you can tell me how you did it, I can look at similar setups.

Thanks

On my Samsung, I have a "channel list" and if you highlight that feature, it will list all analog and digital channels that your tuner has found. Beside each channel is a box with a check mark. You should find channels 5-1,5-2, and 5-3 on your channel list. See if 5-1 is unchecked. That's how it works for mine. If it unchecked, you should have some way to add it back. That's what I do with mine. I go through and "uncheck" all of my analog channels that I do not need. You may have accidently unchecked 5-1.

Try going directly to channel 41 and see what you get. 41 is NBC's local broadcast channel number.

It's really strange that you would get the secondary sub-channels but not the 'main' sub-channel. As I understand it, all sub-channels for a given broadcast channel are combined into a single digital data stream. It's your tuner that then separates them back out into their individual sub-channels. (my description may not be technically accurate but I believe it's conceptually accurate ;))

One of NBC5's engineers is around this forum at times, so maybe he'll have an idea as well.....

MC

I did manually add channel 41, and it mapped to 5-1 the NBC channel. I am surprised why it did not find in the scan. Thanks for the info. Is there a place where there is all the channel number list?

Is there a place where there is all the channel number list?

There are many, but the one that I use most often is from Antenna Web (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx).

RabbitEars (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=5) is another good one as well.

MC

Anyone tried getting the low power station on 3.1 yet? KHPK-LP with a mighty 300 Watts I read. There is now a digital station on Low VHF, channel 3 at 63 mHz. They sell jewelry so far and the audio is total distortion. Zero QC on the engineering. They supposedly will be running AMGTV network on a sub-channel pretty soon. I get it here in NW Dallas with a 16-21 Signal,with fewer dropouts than KERA-DT with 71-76 Sig.

KHPK-LD, 3.1 & 3.2 generally come in just fine at my home in Plano. You're right about the horrid technical quality, though -- a trait shared with the co-owned digital low power station on channel 31. Distorted audio or audio coming out of one channel only seems to be routine for these trash operations owned by Mako.

Fox 4 News in HD Finally!!!

Welcome to 2 weeks ago.

Welcome to 2 weeks ago.

Took awhile for the signal to get to Forney :)

Is anyone else seeing CW33/LATV on both 33.1, 33.2 and 32.1, 32.2? Odd thing is that I can't delete the 32.x channels, nor do they show up in my channel list or have guide info.

Mike

Being a NASCAR fan and looking forward to the race today on Fox, I am disappointed that KDFW 4 is not broadscasting the race in HD. Looks like 4:3 standard def to me.

EDIT: at 1:47 they froze up and then went black, then came back to full 16:9 HD ...

Got a reply back from Ch 4, there was a sun outage going on. That explains it.

Being a NASCAR fan and looking forward to the race today on Fox, I am disappointed that KDFW 4 is not broadscasting the race in HD. Looks like 4:3 standard def to me.

EDIT: at 1:47 they froze up and then went black, then came back to full 16:9 HD ...

Got a reply back from Ch 4, there was a sun outage going on. That explains it.
Must have been a very localized outage. I was working in the yard at 1:47pm today and the sun was bright enough for me to get a bit burned. However I do recall that at 1:47am there was a sun outage here.

[But some Fox subsidiaries do seem to be in the dark quite often. Maybe its not unusual for them to experience sun outages. :) ]

Klaatu barada nikto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaatu_barada_nikto)

Must have been a very localized outage. I was working in the yard at 1:47pm today and the sun was bright enough for me to get a bit burned. However I do recall that at 1:47am there was a sun outage here.

[But some Fox subsidiaries do seem to be in the dark quite often. Maybe its not unusual for them to experience sun outages. :) ]

Klaatu barada nikto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaatu_barada_nikto)


This happened to me as well. My girlfriend's dad was coming over to watch. It was 4/3 standard def and broadcast only in stereo... I was like "what the? I know they usually broadcast Nascar in HD."

Then almost as soon as I thought that, it changed.

I'm becoming such an HD snob.

First time "poster" - so I apologize if not the right format.

I have been using a 2 Digital Stream converter boxes since last July. I live in north Carrollton. This past weekend I moved 3 miles west to a new apt. complex. One converter box has "powered" rabbit ears and the other just plain ol' rabbit ears. Now that I a total of 4 reference points I have come to the conclusion that channel 8 WFAA will never come in. I get all other DFW channels absolutely perfect. I thought all DFW transmitter towers were in south Dallas - Cedar Hill.

Does anyone have any idea what is up with channel 8? I have both rabbit ears next to outside windows - pointed south. Nothing! If I didn't get other channels I would be suspect. But it doesn't matter which rabbit ears I put on which TV.

Thanks for any suggestions

I thought all DFW transmitter towers were in south Dallas - Cedar Hill.

Does anyone have any idea what is up with channel 8? I have both rabbit ears next to outside windows - pointed south. Nothing! s

Ch 8 is on VHF, all the others are UHF. That's the difference. You need an antenna that works as well on VHF as UHF. With an outdoor antenna that works equally on VHF and UHF Ch 8 is my strongest just a little south of you in NW Dallas near 635 and Stemmons Frwy. After June 12 Ch 52 and Ch 11 will permanently move to VHF too, so you will likely also have problems with those.
If you have a view to the south might try a Channel Master "Stealthtenna" amplified version if you have a place outside your apartment to put one. A Stealthtenna is about 40" across and will receive VHF and UHF quite well for what it is.

The Digital Stream boxes seem to be deaf in the VHF band when I have had to work with them.




I have been using a 2 Digital Stream converter boxes since last July.

Thanks for any suggestions

KHPK TV 3.2 went on the air as an AMGTV (schedules are online) affiliate yesterday (Friday) at 4pm.

We will be carrying AMGTV programming untouched for about a week. Beginning the last week of March we will be adding new programs. Tuesday nights prime will be The FBI Files, The New Detectives, and Cold Case Files.

Fred Hutton
817-480-5222
KHPK TV 3.2

Hello,

AMGTV is running on KHPK TV 3.2 as of 4:00pm Friday.
Thanks
Fred Hutton
817-480-5222

AMGTV is running on KHPK TV 3.2 as of 4:00pm yesterday. It would be a big help if you could let me know if you can pick it up or not.

No reception in East Fort Worth (I-820 & I-30 intersection), then again if it's the one that I looked at its signal contours recently I don't expect too.

MC

Good luck. 300W just can't compete with 100kW each from KDTN and KDFW analogs on adjacent channels. I doubt many people will be seeing KHPK before June 12, and even then, it's going to be spotty for anyone outside of LBJ or west of 360.

I'm getting it with an outdoor antenna in Plano. Sound and picture seem to be fine for a standard definition channel. and better than much of what Mako puts out on its digital LPs.

Thomas,

Thanks for the feedback. I will not be able to see the KHPK 3.2 signal for myself until Tuesday. Nice to know we can be seen in Plano. By next month we will be carrying a lot of new syndicated programming and running a lot of the AMGTV Network. Always open to programming suggestions and feedback.

Fred Hutton

I just bought a Kworld USB tuner that does both ATSC and QAM. I hooked it up to my apartment's TWC outlet.

The included software, TotalMedia 3.15, leaves alot to be desired. It doesn't handle subchannels at all. It just adds the channels sequentially. Here's a sample list of the channels.

26 - MC Dance
161 - Fox
162 - NBC
164 - ABC
211 - KTXA-HD

I can pick up alot of SD channels on QAM, but I can only pick KTXA-HD, KDAF-HD, and KDFI-HD. Is there any reason why I cannot pick up the other HD channels?

Fred, any plans to get carriage on FiOS/TWC/U-verse? Judging by the TVFool coverage map for KHPK, my area isn't likely to get anything without a good outdoor antenna, and my apartment complex doesn't allow any outdoor antennas large enough to have good reception on 3.

Coyo,

There are always plans for that kind of thing. Would love to be on Fios. Got a rep working on Time Warner. Perhaps if we can get some programming unique to this market we could.

BetterTV:

Is there a reason you're on 3-2 rather than 31-4, which might be easier to receive? I'm just generally curious as low-VHF is not well-known for being easy to receive.

- Trip

Hello,

The reason we are on 3.2 is because it was available.

Hello,

The reason we are on 3.2 is because it was available and we can operate it at a profit.

I understand if you prefer not to release this information, but are you saying that Mako was charging less for bandwidth on channel 3 than they were on the UHFs?

- Trip

No I am saying that it was available. There is not a lot of digital channels available in DFW market at this point at any price.

No I am saying that it was available. There is not a lot of digital channels available in DFW market at this point at any price.

Mako had a slide on 31-4 for a while offering the subchannel for lease, that's the only reason I asked... :)

I wish you the best of luck with your station.

- Trip

Anyone else having an issue with TVGOS data (analog) missing from KERA since Friday or Saturday? Or is it just my setup?

MC

Thomas,

Thanks for the feedback. I will not be able to see the KHPK 3.2 signal for myself until Tuesday. Nice to know we can be seen in Plano. By next month we will be carrying a lot of new syndicated programming and running a lot of the AMGTV Network. Always open to programming suggestions and feedback.

Fred Hutton

Fred,

To clarify, I'm able to receive your programming using a rooftop antenna in Plano -- I don't believe that anyone could received 3.2 with an indoor antenna, and suspect that an attic antenna wouldn't cut it, either.

Also, when I checked back in, I did notice that while the audio was clean, it was coming entirely from the right channel. Someone at the station needs to fix the audio so that it is coming from both channels.

Good luck -- I hope that you can achieve some success with your new channel, and demonstrate that LPTV can be something other than shopping and religion.

Anyone else having an issue with TVGOS data (analog) missing from KERA since Friday or Saturday? Or is it just my setup?

MC

I was told analog TVGOS ended on 02/28. Not sure about that though.

Good luck -- I hope that you can achieve some success with your new channel, and demonstrate that LPTV can be something other than shopping and religion.

Agreed 100%. Best of luck! :)

- Trip

Mako had a slide on 31-4 for a while offering the subchannel for lease, that's the only reason I asked... :)

I wish you the best of luck with your station.

- Trip

MAKO did not have the slide... It was the chap who was leasing the station from MAKO. He wanted to sub-lease.

As of last night, the programming on 3.2 was also showing up on 34.2 -- as stretched widescreen SD.

Briefly looking over some older posts, i see HDNet as litsted as OTA around 2004. Does this still exist today or just on satellite?

At one point, HDNet offered a service called HDNet Lite which, to my knowledge, had four affiliates. (KSTC, WFMZ, WRAZ, and another one which slips my mind) It aired selected HD programming over the air, and was a very nice service.

Now HDNet is subscription only on cable and satellite. Stations that were carrying it went their own route and started carrying their own programming instead.

- Trip

At one point, HDNet offered a service called HDNet Lite which, to my knowledge, had four affiliates. (KSTC, WFMZ, WRAZ, and another one which slips my mind) It aired selected HD programming over the air, and was a very nice service.

Now HDNet is subscription only on cable and satellite. Stations that were carrying it went their own route and started carrying their own programming instead.

- Trip

Well, they never called themselves "HDNet Lite" -- that was the semi-sarcastic nickname that was given to it here on this forum.

And HDNet actually did once air OTA -- during it's first year or so of existence, there was a period of several months where HDNet's programming aired almost intact on KTXA-DT here in Dallas/Fort Worth. I don't know whether this ran OTA anywhere other than on KTXA-DT.

When HDNet created the OTA-only version of their service, that did start running on several other stations, including KTXA-DT here in DFW, as well as the stations that Trip mentions. It also ran in Charlotte, NC on the station that was their WB affiliate at the time, and may have run briefly on KRON-DT in SF.

The OTA service consisted primarily of reruns of old sporting events, some high def versions of old public domain movies, and endless runs of an old Canadian mini-series ("Chasing Rainbows"). HDNet pulled the plug on it when they apparently decided to focus exclusively on paid distribution platforms.

KRON, that's the one I was forgetting. I didn't know that KTXA had carried it. WWWB-DT was co-owned with WRAZ, so I'm not surprised they aired it, though I didn't know that they did.

- Trip

Trip, not only did KTXA-DT carry it, but I think it was probably the first station to do so.

Which kind of makes sense, since HDNEt was (and is) based out of Dallas and Denver.

Anyone else having an issue with TVGOS data (analog) missing from KERA since Friday or Saturday? Or is it just my setup?

MC
As far as I can tell it's gone. I searched for the VBI packets on 11,13,19,11.1,13.1, and 19.1. (19 and 19.1 showed no signal, but they were active as CBS stations for a while last year as a copy of 11,11.1). Had no luck. I sent CBS11 an e-mail asking about this as I understand CBS has the TVGOS contract. And I used to see VBI packets on 11.1. No answer yet.

I was told analog TVGOS ended on 02/28. Not sure about that though.
- Trip

As far as I can tell it's gone. I searched for the VBI packets on 11,13,19,11.1,13.1, and 19.1. (19 and 19.1 showed no signal, but they were active as CBS stations for a while last year as a copy of 11,11.1). Had no luck. I sent CBS11 an e-mail asking about this as I understand CBS has the TVGOS contract. And I used to see VBI packets on 11.1. No answer yet.

As Trip noted, analog TVGOS does seem to be gone, although it was here local for at least a week after the date noted by Trip. (yes, I know that the guide gives a weeks worth of data but it was 2 weeks after that date that I no longer had listings).

Buraman, thanks for looking into this. Please keep me informed as to what you discover.

I am however having limited success getting the digital (ATSC) version of the TVGOS data from 11.1(19). It'll work OK for a day or two then it'll stop updating or reset and clear all the data. Also every few days all the analog stations reactivate in the program listings even though I keep turning them off. Also, every now and then it seems to see an analog TVGOS packet and so it resets back to analog.... I keep forcing ATSC slicing on, leaving the TV on CBS so it'll get the data packets, etc....

I'm hoping that once all the analog stations cease broadcasting that this will all straighten itself out. I'm guessing that the dual analog/digital coding in the TVGOS code assumed that analog would all go away at the same time, as it was planned that way for years, but then our fine reps. in congress had to mess with things.....

Anyone else local getting the digital/ATSC TVGOS data? If so, having any of the kind of issues I'm describing???

MC

Thinking about getting this Indoor/Outdoor Antenna (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090102&p_id=4730&seq=1&format=1#largeimage)from Monoprice. Just wonder if anyone use one of these here in DFW and am I going to get decent OTA HD channels being in Mesquite and tower in Cedar Hill?

No real published gain figures, and a lot of the reviews around suggest that it doesn't work very well for VHF, which isn't a surprise given the small size of the unit. As with most other gimmicky antennas, your reception will depend more on luck than anything else.

I am in East Plano and have fair digital reception except during windy days.

I am not sure of the antenna type. It is a full size UHF/VHF antenna that used to be on the roof. Due to a lightning strike several years ago, the antenna is now in the attic.

The signal strength is half on 8.1 & 11.1. The signal strength on 4.1 is down to about a quarter and frequently breaks up on windy days.

The cable length to digital converter box is fairly long (100 ft).

I am looking for antenna amplifier recommendations.

Thanks for your help.
Karen

Thinking about getting this Indoor/Outdoor Antenna (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090102&p_id=4730&seq=1&format=1#largeimage)from Monoprice. Just wonder if anyone use one of these here in DFW and am I going to get decent OTA HD channels being in Mesquite and tower in Cedar Hill?

I have a very similar one from Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765), and but it's for UHF only. Looks just like it. Mine worked very well, indoors, 50+ miles from Cedar Hill, but only on UHF. I'm guessing that the one you're looking at is a clone of mine, and isn't intended for VHF even if it's advertised as such.

I am in East Plano and have fair digital reception except during windy days.

I am not sure of the antenna type. It is a full size UHF/VHF antenna that used to be on the roof. Due to a lightning strike several years ago, the antenna is now in the attic.

The signal strength is half on 8.1 & 11.1. The signal strength on 4.1 is down to about a quarter and frequently breaks up on windy days.

The cable length to digital converter box is fairly long (100 ft).

I am looking for antenna amplifier recommendations.

Thanks for your help.
Karen
Winegard HDP-269

Any idea what NBC/Telemundo plans for these stations?

Coyoteaz,
Thanks for the quick reply on the antenna amplifier.

Karen

What I need is an antenna amplifier that has zero gain on VHF and 12 to 15 dB on UHF. I get 8.1 full scale, and it overloads amplifiers I've tried to bring up my UHF.

Have you tried using a separator, running the UHF side through an amplifier, and then using a combiner to put them back together?

Thought about two VHF-UHF splitters, one as a splitter, the other reversed as a combiner, with the VHFs connected together, and the UHF sides with an amp in line. I tried that once on analog years ago and while it worked on most channels, it caused some diagonal line interference in the pic on others. That type if interference might not be a problem with digital though. I think part of the problem then was the quality of the splitters I was using. I haven't really pursued it lately to see if there are any decent quality splitters that have all 75 Ohm connections. It's an idea that might get revived if I can locate some decent splitters.

As Trip noted, analog TVGOS does seem to be gone, although it was here local for at least a week after the date noted by Trip. (yes, I know that the guide gives a weeks worth of data but it was 2 weeks after that date that I no longer had listings).

Buraman, thanks for looking into this. Please keep me informed as to what you discover.

I am however having limited success getting the digital (ATSC) version of the TVGOS data from 11.1(19). It'll work OK for a day or two then it'll stop updating or reset and clear all the data. Also every few days all the analog stations reactivate in the program listings even though I keep turning them off. Also, every now and then it seems to see an analog TVGOS packet and so it resets back to analog.... I keep forcing ATSC slicing on, leaving the TV on CBS so it'll get the data packets, etc....

I'm hoping that once all the analog stations cease broadcasting that this will all straighten itself out. I'm guessing that the dual analog/digital coding in the TVGOS code assumed that analog would all go away at the same time, as it was planned that way for years, but then our fine reps. in congress had to mess with things.....

Anyone else local getting the digital/ATSC TVGOS data? If so, having any of the kind of issues I'm describing???

MC
Re: Problems in Dallas
« Reply #7 on: Today at 04:32:54 PM »

All, JSFERG got an answer for us. He posted at http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=141.0

------------- quote --------------------------
OK everyone the the low down blow.
I talked to the chief engineer today From ch 11 and they are aware of the problem. The G* system was faulting and as of last Friday (March 27, 2009), and they turned it off. The new equipment should be up and running by Friday April 3rd 2009.
Hope this helps.

I have a very similar one from Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765), and but it's for UHF only. Looks just like it. Mine worked very well, indoors, 50+ miles from Cedar Hill, but only on UHF. I'm guessing that the one you're looking at is a clone of mine, and isn't intended for VHF even if it's advertised as such.

Thanks for the respond K5ING, I will try it out and see.

Since we have one VHF station currently with two more on the way, I quit using that RS antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765) and got a Terk 42 (or maybe 41, I don't remember right now). I didn't attach it to my sat dish, however. I mounted it under my roof facia on the south side of my house, ran one lead to it and used the little ampifier (EDIT: should read "power supply", not amplifier) from my RS antenna, and guess what? I pick up every digital station in the DFW area except the LP Ch. 3 station. It works great, and as I said, I'm about 52 miles NW (midway between Denton and Decatur) from the transmitters at Cedar Hill.

138441
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=138441&d=1238527378

K5ING, I google Terk 42 (41 didn't come with anything) and it mention it has a built in amplifier, so it helps to add another amplifer (RS) to get a better signal? Was the signal weak without the RS amplifer (forgive me for the noob questions, don't understand antennas)? So coax cable from Terk 42 > RS amplifer > HDTV? Did you purchase this local or online?

TIA

K5ING, I google Terk 42 (41 didn't come with anything) and it mention it has a built in amplifier, so it helps to add another amplifer (RS) to get a better signal? Was the signal weak without the RS amplifer (forgive me for the noob questions, don't understand antennas)? So coax cable from Terk 42 > RS amplifer > HDTV? Did you purchase this local or online?

TIA

The Terk is designed to be connected through the LNB cables on a satellite dish, and the amplifier is powered by the sat reciever. It has 2 inputs and 2 outputs. I tried hooking it up the instructed way including using all of the diplexers that came with it, and it didn't work. In a "what the hell" moment, I just tried hooking it up using a single cable going to the RS antenna's power supply (wall wart) and then into my HDTV. Much to my surprise, it worked great.

I misspoke when I said I was using the RS amplifier. I should have said I was using the RS antenna's power supply (the little box that the coax and the wall wart connects to) to power the Terk's internal amplifier. Just for grins today, I disconnected the power supply to see how it worked un-amplified, and it didn't, at least not on Ch. 8. I haven't checked the other channels while unplugged.

I got it online, but don't remember where. I think I paid around $40 for it. I'll look around and edit this message if I find the exact place/price.

I started noticing on Saturday, 4/11, a loss of channels from my digital antenna. The strange thing is that the past few days, there has been a pattern. About 6:00am, signal strength is about 95-100%, then it deteriorates throughout the day. By 7:00pm, some channels are gone. Then around 10:00pm, the signal strength starts to slowly come back, and so do the lost channels. By morning, everything's fine again.

My first thought was that since the antenna is in the attic, that the heating unit was interfering; (as it's on a timer). But I tried turning the thermostat off, and still no improvement in reception.

The antenna's worked fine for weeks, and I'd hate to move it out of the attic. But I'd love to find out what is causing the interference.

If anybody has any ideas, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

I started noticing on Saturday, 4/11, a loss of channels from my digital antenna. The strange thing is that the past few days, there has been a pattern. About 6:00am, signal strength is about 95-100%, then it deteriorates throughout the day. By 7:00pm, some channels are gone. Then around 10:00pm, the signal strength starts to slowly come back, and so do the lost channels. By morning, everything's fine again.

My first thought was that since the antenna is in the attic, that the heating unit was interfering; (as it's on a timer). But I tried turning the thermostat off, and still no improvement in reception.

The antenna's worked fine for weeks, and I'd hate to move it out of the attic. But I'd love to find out what is causing the interference.

If anybody has any ideas, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

I'm by no means one to answer this question, but I always have strong signal in the early morning, with weakening in the afternoon, getting stronger again as night approaches. Thankfully, even when it is weak, I still get most all the channels, but it is weaker. I just figured that's how it is.

Is that antenna an amplified unit? If so, I suspect that the heat may be degrading the performance of the amplifier.

Hico is a pretty good distance from Cedar Hill for an attic mounted antenna. I suspect you don't have any margin and early am and late night will always give better propagation. I assume this is a real antenna with long and short elements and that you do have a PreAmp.
JStigler

It's probably just atmospheric conditions causing the dropout.

Do you have a radiant barrier on your roof? That will cut signal strength quite a bit. If so, you might want to remove just a bit of it in the antenna's sight path.

Thanks very much for the replies. I recently did install a pre-amp on the antenna, and that has solved my issues. Signal strength is now in the 90's on all channels, even in the early evening.
I just couldn't believe the large fluctuations in signal strength could be due to anything other than some outside source, and could not figure out what it could be. But, it's been so far, so good with the pre-amp!

Thanks,
Edward

I've noticed that KERA seems to be using a very low bitrate. Still images look great but as soon as you have a somewhat busy scene, there's macroblocking all over the place. I'm receiving it OTA so there's no third-party to blame.

What gives? Not only do they only broadcast in stereo but they can't even broadcast full HD? They don't even have any subchannels!

I've noticed that KERA seems to be using a very low bitrate. Still images look great but as soon as you have a somewhat busy scene, there's macroblocking all over the place. I'm receiving it OTA so there's no third-party to blame.

What gives? Not only do they only broadcast in stereo but they can't even broadcast full HD? They don't even have any subchannels!

Yes, I've noticed this about KERA. However, I also get KWBU/34 out of Waco, you get subchannels, but their main channel is rarely if ever showing in HD. I suppose I'd take KERA, as I like the concerts they show sometimes in HD.

I'd prefer KWBU to KERA myself. Does anyone know what 14.8 and 14.9 on KERA-DT are?

I'd prefer KWBU to KERA myself. Does anyone know what 14.8 and 14.9 on KERA-DT are?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV

- Trip

I'd prefer KWBU to KERA myself. Does anyone know what 14.8 and 14.9 on KERA-DT are?

This is data for TV Guide. No video here.
JStigler

This is data for TV Guide. No video here.
JStigler

TV Guide On-Screen comes from KTVT-DT, not from KERA-DT. The service that KERA-DT is offering on those channels has no video, as you suggest, but is the UpdateTV service. It's a service which provides software updates to selected TVs and other equipment with ATSC tuners.

- Trip

I have Charter as my Cable provider (Fort Worth, TX). I have one HD channel that has no Audio or Video. This channel is channel 760 which is CNNHD. The analog version (Ch 36) plays fine. I have two series3 TiVo's and this channel acts the same on both units and all 4 cable cards. After you select channel 760 and no audio or video is displayed I go into the cable card menu and select the SA Cable Card CP screen and the Power Key Status shows "Not Ready-Waiting for EUT". Sometimes this status may read "Not Ready-Waiting for Time". The cable card(s) will in a matter of minutes reset them selves and all is fine until I go back and select channel 760 again, and it again upsets the cable card. Also if I go to the Test Channel display, The display will say "No channels available". Again after a few minutes (usually less than 4-5 minutes) the card apparently resets its self and all is normal. One other data point - when the screen is black (no audio or video on channel 760) I can record the channel and it plays back with audio and Video like there was no problem. Also If I press pause and let the buffer fill for a few minutes, I then press Play and I again have Audio & Video until it catches up with the current playback time. I've talked to TiVo & Charter and no one has a clue as to the problem. My son has a Scienticic Atlanta 8300HD DVR and he has no problem with channel 760 (CNNHD). If there is anyone in the Fort Worth area with Charter as their provider I would appriciate if they would let me know if their TiVo is affected. I can't believe I have 4 bad Cable Cards or two bad TiVo series3 with 4 bad card slots. Again only channel 760 (CNNHD) is bad all other channels HD, Analog or Digital work fine.

I have Charter as my Cable provider (Fort Worth, TX). I have one HD channel that has no Audio or Video. This channel is channel 760 which is CNNHD. The analog version (Ch 36) plays fine. I have two series3 TiVo's and this channel acts the same on both units and all 4 cable cards. After you select channel 760 and no audio or video is displayed I go into the cable card menu and select the SA Cable Card CP screen and the Power Key Status shows "Not Ready-Waiting for EUT". Sometimes this status may read "Not Ready-Waiting for Time". The cable card(s) will in a matter of minutes reset them selves and all is fine until I go back and select channel 760 again, and it again upsets the cable card. Also if I go to the Test Channel display, The display will say "No channels available". Again after a few minutes (usually less than 4-5 minutes) the card apparently resets its self and all is normal. One other data point - when the screen is black (no audio or video on channel 760) I can record the channel and it plays back with audio and Video like there was no problem. Also If I press pause and let the buffer fill for a few minutes, I then press Play and I again have Audio & Video until it catches up with the current playback time. I've talked to TiVo & Charter and no one has a clue as to the problem. My son has a Scienticic Atlanta 8300HD DVR and he has no problem with channel 760 (CNNHD). If there is anyone in the Fort Worth area with Charter as their provider I would appriciate if they would let me know if their TiVo is affected. I can't believe I have 4 bad Cable Cards or two bad TiVo series3 with 4 bad card slots. Again only channel 760 (CNNHD) is bad all other channels HD, Analog or Digital work fine.
Perhaps a situation that I had with Time Warner a while ago will provide a clue. They reconfigured some of their equipment and I was unable to receive sound on a few digital stations through my cablecard. Worked fine with their Motorola DVR and on the analog versions of the stations. Time Warner was very good about investigating the situation, over a period of days and with many hours with a tech at my house communicating with people at three TW facilities. Turned out that some stations made changes and when they set up their new equipment they were slightly out of spec or something like that and didn't have the bandwidth quite right. When TWC discovered, and then fixed, the problem at their location the problem was resolved. Everything began working on the cablecard and continued working on the DVR.

Perhaps a situation that I had with Time Warner a while ago will provide a clue. They reconfigured some of their equipment and I was unable to receive sound on a few digital stations through my cablecard. Worked fine with their Motorola DVR and on the analog versions of the stations. Time Warner was very good about investigating the situation, over a period of days and with many hours with a tech at my house communicating with people at three TW facilities. Turned out that some stations made changes and when they set up their new equipment they were slightly out of spec or something like that and didn't have the bandwidth quite right. When TWC discovered, and then fixed, the problem at their location the problem was resolved. Everything began working on the cablecard and continued working on the DVR.
bernie33, thanks for the info...I'll get a hold of Charter again and this time My hopes are they will do something besides blaming TiVo. Thanks agin.

Curious to know if anyone on TX side of Texoma (Pottsboro, Highport, Tanglewood area) has had any luck picking up WFAA with outdoor antenna. Do I understand correctly they transmit digital on VHF chan 9? And will they continue to do so after the changeover? As new Dish subscribers we were amazed to find out we can't get ABC at all unless we "move" back to Dallas.

Curious to know if anyone on TX side of Texoma (Pottsboro, Highport, Tanglewood area) has had any luck picking up WFAA with outdoor antenna. Do I understand correctly they transmit digital on VHF chan 9? And will they continue to do so after the changeover? As new Dish subscribers we were amazed to find out we can't get ABC at all unless we "move" back to Dallas.

Right now, WFAA is broadcasting their digital signal on VHF Ch. 9. After the changeover, they will be going back to Ch. 8. Two other stations currently broadcasting digital on the UHF band will also be going back to VHF. Ch. 11 (now on 19 going to 11 post change) and Ch. 52 (now on Ch. 51 and going to Ch. 9 after the changeover).

If you have a really good VHF antenna and some height, you can probably pick them up, but it's going to be marginal at best. It's too bad everyone just can't go to UHF.

VHF actually works better over long distances than UHF, even with the seemingly large different in power output. Agreed with the recommendation of a good VHF antenna and lots of elevation. Your bet choices would either be an Winegard HD7698P if you want a VHF/UHF combo, or the YA-1713 if you're only looking for VHF.

VHF actually works better over long distances than UHF, even with the seemingly large different in power output.

If terrain and other obstructions are causing problems, yes, VHF has an advantage, but in Line of Sight areas, UHF is a lot easier to work with. I have found VHF to be troublesome at long distances where line of sight is still available (compared to UHF). VHF is also more dependent on antenna height in LOS areas and isn't as "rabbit ear/loop" friendly.

I have a brother in Denton who can get the UHF DTV stations just fine, but WFAA is very problematic. Of course, if he put a real antenna on his roof, it would probably be fine, but he has an indoor RE/loop combo.

Speaking of VHF, did KDTN end analog ops on 2, as scheduled? Thanks.

The Texoma area to Cedar hill is about 85 miles, so line of sight is going to be fairly difficult to achieve without a really big tower to put the antenna on. Denton at 45 miles is a cakewalk by comparison.

The Texoma area to Cedar hill is about 85 miles, so line of sight is going to be fairly difficult to achieve without a really big tower to put the antenna on. Denton at 45 miles is a cakewalk by comparison.

85 miles... Yeah, it's hard to get LOS at that distance. :eek:

It looks like we should request a TV Fool plot for the actual location to get a better idea of the situation.

I checked my recording of Supernatural last night, from KDAF. It was a weather radar for 1 hour - pretty annoying. Anybody else see this? I have not had a problem with any of my recordings this season.

My recordings of Smallville and Supernatural from KDAF via FiOS were perfectly normal last night.

My recordings of Smallville and Supernatural from KDAF via FiOS were perfectly normal last night.

Thanks. I have an OTA feed coming into my directv box, and record off 33-1 OTA....I wonder if the OTA feed was screwed up :\

I've changed my recordings to directv's channel 33 hd feed now...hopefully it doesn't happen again.

Unlikely since it would have affected everyone. Your box probably screwed up and somehow managed to record 9.3 (WFAA 8.3) instead of 32.3 (KDAF 33.1).

Thanks. I have an OTA feed coming into my directv box, and record off 33-1 OTA....I wonder if the OTA feed was screwed up :\

I just watched my recording and 33-1 HD OTA for SmallVille (the hour just before) was normal. So my guess also is that something went sideways in your system.

Mike

Speaking of VHF, did KDTN end analog ops on 2, as scheduled? Thanks.

Yes. Channel 2 is vacant now.

I was hoping its demise would help me get KHPK-LD on channel 3, but no such luck. Looks like I'll need to put that VHF-Lo antenna on the roof after all. Unfortunately, the weather this weekend hasn't exactly been ideal for rooftop work :(

I've noticed that KERA seems to be using a very low bitrate. Still images look great but as soon as you have a somewhat busy scene, there's macroblocking all over the place. I'm receiving it OTA so there's no third-party to blame.

What gives? Not only do they only broadcast in stereo but they can't even broadcast full HD? They don't even have any subchannels!

I've also wondered about KERA. Not only KWBU to the south but also the OETA stations to the north offer subchannels, but I'm too far away to get either (except when the tropo is just right!) KERA-FM doesn't use HD radio either (although since they're mostly talk, it's arguably not worth the expense).

PBS/NPR affiliates are seldom awash in cash, but is KERA even worse off than most (or are they just stingy)?

PBS/NPR affiliates are seldom awash in cash, but is KERA even worse off than most (or are they just stingy)?

I don't know the stats, but they show tons of Britcoms. Probably more than most other PBS stations around the country. After all, KERA introduced Britcoms to America by being the very first to show Monty Python back in 1974. I'm guessing those shows are expensive.

I'd expect KERA to be relatively well-off, since they pocketed something like $20 million when they sold KDTN to Daystar.

I'd expect KERA to be relatively well-off, since they pocketed something like $20 million when they sold KDTN to Daystar.

And retained the right to use KDTN's digital subchannels, as I understand it - a right they could exercise to give us the best of both worlds - subchannels and high-quality HDTV - since Daystar's single SD channel leaves KDTN with plenty of unused bandwidth.

Perhaps K5ING is right, and the British comedies burn up much of their operating budget. On the other hand, OETA airs many of the same British comedies, and they offer several subchannels. So it's still a bit of a mystery to me.

Thanks for the help on this one - not sure I can get enough height for 85 miles - hopefully Dish and ABC will come to an agreement and we'll get it from the satellite -
again thanks for your assist.

TWC Dallas now has the Motorola DCX-3200 with J-Guide. The DCX-3200 is much smaller than the current Motorola DCX box and it uses a power brick. No 2nd electrical outlet on the box but that should be no issue. The DCX-3432 will also be deployed. Has a 320 GB HDD and it's much better than the current ones. There is a little glitch with the guide which prevents the DCX-3432 to be deployed but it should be deployed soon.

TWC Dallas now has the Motorola DCX-3200 with J-Guide. The DCX-3200 is much smaller than the current Motorola DCX box and it uses a power brick. No 2nd electrical outlet on the box but that should be no issue. The DCX-3432 will also be deployed. Has a 320 GB HDD and it's much better than the current ones. There is a little glitch with the guide which prevents the DCX-3432 to be deployed but it should be deployed soon.
That is interesting news. It will be even better news when they announce it and start deploying it. No word from them about it yet.

Actually the DCX-3200 is already being deployed now. The 3432 may have to wait a while.

I am in Dallas, and I just plugged in an over the air ant. I get 5-1 great, but channel 5 bad. I get 11-1 great, but just 11 really bad. What does this mean? Does this mean I"m getting UHF, but not VHF? IS this a good thing?

I am about to cancel my cable since all I watch is local channels. How can I test to make sure I am getting the main channels well? If I pick them up well now, does this mean I will when the switch happens?

Can someone help me know if I am set or not?

Thanks.

I am in Dallas, and I just plugged in an over the air ant. I get 5-1 great, but channel 5 bad. I get 11-1 great, but just 11 really bad. What does this mean? Does this mean I"m getting UHF, but not VHF? IS this a good thing?

Thanks.

Yep you are getting UHF but not VHF. 4 and 5 are on low VHF. No major channels will be on the lower VHF channels, although a new low power station has showed up on 3, mostly infomercials.
In fact after the digital transition there will be 8, 11 and 21 on upper VHF so to get those you will need to use an antenna that works on the upper VHF channels eqally well as on UHF. If you can successfully receive NTSC-analog 8 & 11 with antenna improvements, then you should be set.

Thanks! So what would I punch in right now to see how well I'm picking up the channels? If I"m at 80-90% is that good?

Thanks.

If you get WFAA-DT 8-1 now, along with everything else, you should be set for the transition.

If you do not get WFAA-DT 8-1, you might want to look into an antenna with some more upper VHF gain in it.

- Trip

Thanks! So what would I punch in right now to see how well I'm picking up the channels? If I"m at 80-90% is that good?

Thanks.

You mentioned before you get "just 11 really bad" so you need to improve the antenna to get decent reception on 11, because the digital 11.1 will move to where analog 11 is now that you get "really bad". You need to be able to receive the analog 8 and 11 now so you won't lose those along with 21.1 which will also move to VHF after the transition.

21-1 is not moving to VHF. 52-1 is.

- Trip

Ok, so I Just played around with it, and I can't get 8 and 11 to come in very clear at all. they are super fuzzy. I can get 11.1, but not just plain 8, or 11. Does this mean I"m out of luck on these channels?

The bigger question is, can you get 8-1? If not, then you need to look into a better antenna.

- Trip

where is 8-1 right now? Is it actually another number? I don't have anything under 8-1, is there another number it would be?

It's on channel 9. The reason it's a useful test is because it is currently the only upper-VHF digital station in Dallas-Fort Worth.

So you might look for it on 9-1 and once it locks, depending on your brand of TV, it should automatically move to display as 8-1.

- Trip

So I"m not getting 9.1 either....guess I won't be able to pick up that channel, huh?

You'll need a better antenna. Where in Dallas are you and what antenna do you have now?

I am in Dallas (near white rock lake - Garland road) the issue is I"m in an apartment. We have uverse now, but I hate it! (and we only watch local channels)

I found out that ATT Home entertainment has free local channels for folks at this apartment. I'm going to get them to come out and hook it up for me - maybe that would solve all my issues!

Which apartment complex? I know the ATT Home Entertainment crap at the Winsted doesn't have any HD channels.

If the show in broadcast in hd- say Saturday night live - for instance, how could they make it not hd? That doesn't make sense.

(and no I don't live in that complex)

If you have a patio/balcony that faces southwest towards the towers in Cedar Hill, put up a decent VHF high/UHF antenna and be done with it. My personal favorite is the Winegard HD769P series. The bottom of the series HD7694P should be plenty for an outdoor installation in your area. If you need something inside, the SS3000 is probably the least bad choice, but I'm still not convinced there's such a thing as a good indoor VHF antenna.

I am in Dallas, and I just plugged in an over the air ant. I get 5-1 great, but channel 5 bad. I get 11-1 great, but just 11 really bad. What does this mean? Does this mean I"m getting UHF, but not VHF? IS this a good thing?

I am about to cancel my cable since all I watch is local channels. How can I test to make sure I am getting the main channels well? If I pick them up well now, does this mean I will when the switch happens?

Can someone help me know if I am set or not?

Thanks.

Don't worry about the plain 4, 5, 8, 11, etc. Those are the analog signals which are due to end next month. As long as you're getting 4-1, 5-1 (plus subchannnels), etc, you'll be fine. Those are the digital signals which is why they come in so much better.

The ones to worry about are 8.1(2&3), 11.1 and 52.1. Those three will be on VHF after the switch. 8.1(2&3) is there now. If you can currently get that, then you'll probably be alright on the other two.

Thanks! I bought a channel master ant at Frys. It is a square (like a pizza box) is this decent? I seem to be getting around 80% on all my digital signals. (except 8.1 for some reason) What do you think is this is a good one?

I don't even have it mounted, I actually just have it sitting on my balcony, and I get all the channels. I was thinking of mounting it someone by putting it on a pole, and putting the pole in a bucket of cement or something. Not sure how you mount these at an apt. complex...

If you have a patio/balcony that faces southwest towards the towers in Cedar Hill, put up a decent VHF high/UHF antenna and be done with it. My personal favorite is the Winegard HD769P series. The bottom of the series HD7694P should be plenty for an outdoor installation in your area. If you need something inside, the SS3000 is probably the least bad choice, but I'm still not convinced there's such a thing as a good indoor VHF antenna.

Coyoteaz where would a person get one of these locally. I'm looking at something indoor if all possible. Anyone have any idea/experience with the one from monoprice, model HDA-5700 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090102&p_id=4730&seq=1&format=1#largeimage)?

Thanks! I bought a channel master ant at Frys. It is a square (like a pizza box) is this decent? I seem to be getting around 80% on all my digital signals. (except 8.1 for some reason) What do you think is this is a good one?

I don't even have it mounted, I actually just have it sitting on my balcony, and I get all the channels. I was thinking of mounting it someone by putting it on a pole, and putting the pole in a bucket of cement or something. Not sure how you mount these at an apt. complex...
It's not the best, but if it works, you might as well stick with it. A pole in a bucket of cement is one way, or a tripod bolted to a sheet of plywood with some sandbags on it works too. If any of your neighbors have satellite dishes, check to see how those are mounted. Most of those mounts will work fine for a small antenna as long as the mast is the right size.

Coyoteaz where would a person get one of these locally. I'm looking at something indoor if all possible. Anyone have any idea/experience with the one from monoprice, model HDA-5700 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090102&p_id=4730&seq=1&format=1#largeimage)?
Not sure, Fry's maybe? Like most other electronics, you're usually better off purchasing online.

Thanks! I bought a channel master ant at Frys. It is a square (like a pizza box) is this decent? I seem to be getting around 80% on all my digital signals. (except 8.1 for some reason) What do you think is this is a good one?

I don't even have it mounted, I actually just have it sitting on my balcony, and I get all the channels. I was thinking of mounting it someone by putting it on a pole, and putting the pole in a bucket of cement or something. Not sure how you mount these at an apt. complex...

Can you still see 8.1(2&3) but it's just not at 80%, or are you not getting it at all?

Just remember that any antenna you get will have to get both UHF and VHF! If it's small and square, chances are that it's UHF only.

The ones to worry about are 8.1(2&3), 11.1 and 52.1. Those three will be on VHF after the switch. 8.1(2&3) is there now.


How did the FCC's allocation table manage to assign RF channel 9 to both the Waco-Temple market (KCEN) and Dallas-Ft. Worth (KFWD)? Cedar Hill and Eddy are only about 90 miles apart.

I see that KCEN (virtual 9) has 25 kw at 527 meters. And KFWD's application is for 55 kw at 546 meters. The service contour maps (using the FCC's TV Query) show KFWD (virtual 52) reaching well into Hillsboro and KCEN's 36 dBu edge is just south of Waxahachie.

How in the world is *this* possibly going to work? I haven't found any application for either KCEN or KFWD to get the allocation table modified.

It's going to work better than it does now. As it stands, WFAA-DT is non-directional on channel 9. At least KFWD-DT will have a null to prevent too much power from going to the south.

But I agree, it shouldn't have been allowed to happen.

- Trip

I've lost History and HGTV over Roadrunner's clearQAM today. Anyone noticing the same?

It's going to work better than it does now. As it stands, WFAA-DT is non-directional on channel 9. At least KFWD-DT will have a null to prevent too much power from going to the south.

But I agree, it shouldn't have been allowed to happen.

- Trip

I still wish that everyone would have gone to UHF. There's plenty of room for everyone up there, and it would have kept us from having to have both a VHF (big and bulky) and a UHF (small and can be put anywhere) antenna. From my limited research, it seems that digital stations on VHF are rare, and we're unlucky enough to have three of them in the DFW market.

Somewhat uncommon at the moment, but most major markets will have at least 1 digital VHF station come June 13. A few are worse off than we are; Philadelphia will have a major network (ABC) on low VHF, which is an even bigger headache than the relatively simple-to-receive high VHF stations we will have.

Coyoteaz where would a person get one of these locally. I'm looking at something indoor if all possible. Anyone have any idea/experience with the one from monoprice, model HDA-5700 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090102&p_id=4730&seq=1&format=1#largeimage)?

No personal experience with that model, but it looks way too small to work well on VHF. A decent VHF antenna will be at least 2.5-3 feet wide, and probably a lot more. The manufacturer may claim otherwise, but manufacturers are known to, um, exaggerate.

For VHF (channel 8.1), try rabbit ears first. If they work, just combine them with the UHF antenna of your choice. UHF/VHF combiners are still available at most electronics stores.

If you can't get 8.1 with rabbit ears and don't want an outdoor antenna, you may be able to build one that will work. There are some good threads on this forum on DIY antennas.

I have a Vizio HDTV. I pickup 11.1 and 52.1 really well. In the past I have picked up 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 with good signal. Lately I cannot get the 8's. I have a good antenna and receive a good picture on all the other channels. Why not the 8's

I have a Vizio HDTV. I pickup 11.1 and 52.1 really well. In the past I have picked up 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 with good signal. Lately I cannot get the 8's. I have a good antenna and receive a good picture on all the other channels. Why not the 8's

Apparently something happened to your antenna's ability to receive VHF because here in NW Dallas (about 25 miles from the transmitters) Ch 8.1 is as strong as ever, 100%. After June 12 when 11.1 and 52.1 move to VHF you will probably lose those too.

I have a Vizio HDTV. I pickup 11.1 and 52.1 really well. In the past I have picked up 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 with good signal. Lately I cannot get the 8's. I have a good antenna and receive a good picture on all the other channels. Why not the 8's


Obviously, you do NOT have a good (or the right) antenna or you would be getting them....

You'll need to identify what you have and where you are at.

I have a Vizio HDTV. I pickup 11.1 and 52.1 really well. In the past I have picked up 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 with good signal. Lately I cannot get the 8's. I have a good antenna and receive a good picture on all the other channels. Why not the 8's

Suggestion... do a quick search on this thread for "WFAA" and you'll find hundreds of posts concerning Ch. 8 and solutions to your problem.

Thanks people! Cleaned all terminals and then narrowed it down to a bad splitter. Replaced the splitter and everything is OK. Thanks again for the help.

So I have got 3 att with different results - maybe you can give me some feedback..(I wanted to try them out, and I'll return all but one)

I bought the Channel master 4220 Hd and I get all my channels almost at 100% except 8-1 which hovers around 60, but looks great!

I bought the 4221Hd (which is twice as big) and there is no increase in signal (even one the UHF stations) - should it pick up even better since it is double the size?

Then I bought then RCA ANT 751 - and it picks things up great, and gives me about 80% on 8-1.

Anyone have any feedback, or suggestions? Thinking I should keep the RCA unit, unless there is another I should try that I can buy here in Dallas.

Thoughts, feedback, suggestions?

thanks!

Good afternoon rick, I'm interest in getting an antenna and have a few questions.
- what retailer did you purchase the RCA from?
- how far are you from the transmitters?
- did you mount this outdoor or indoor?

I bought it from Frys.

I live near white rock lake

I just put it on my balcony. Really no install (and my view is facing north -not south). I have it just sitting on a table on my porch. (the RCA unit)

It looks like what I need is a good UHF ant with some vhf. Prehaps one of the channel masters. With the RCA I can pick up everything (even 8-1) great!

can anyone suggest anything different, and a place local to buy?

Or can I add vhf to the channel master 4220?

thanks

Thanks for the quick respond, I will check in on that.

Rick,

If the RCA ANT 751 is working for you then I would go with it. Both the 4220HD and 4221HD are UHF antennas that can, somewhat, pickup high VHF channels. My home built 4221 clone used to pick up 8-1 but doesn't anymore. I believe it's due to atmospheric conditions.

I picked up a RCA ANT 111 at Lowe's for around $10.00 and replaced my current antenna in the attic with it just to see what would happen. I'm picking up all channels. I was shocked by that since it's a set top antenna and I'm 47 miles from the towers. I'm only running one TV with it though which could make a difference.

Alan

Alan,

Just curious when you mention picked up all channels, how many channels? Same when others mention all channels, how many should I be picking up with an OTA antenna? Forgive my questions, I'm trying to learn about antenna and what might fit my needs since June is coming up.

Actually, when I say all channels I really mean the major networks since those are the only ones I watch. You can go to tvfool.com, input your address and find out what stations you should be receiving. These are the stations I'm currently scanning:

Digital - only main channel noted with call sign

2-1 KDTN-DT IND
4-1 KDFW-DT FOX
5-1 KXAS-DT NBC
5-2
5-3
8-1 WFAA-DT ABC
8-2
8-3
11-1 KTVT-DT CBS
13-1 KERA-DT PBS
21-1 KTXA IND
23-1 KUVN-DT UNI
27-1 KDFI-DT MYN
29-1 KMPX-DT IND
31-1 K31GL-D
31-2
31-3
31-4
33-1 KDAF-DT CW
33-2
34-1 KJJM-LP
34-2
34-3
34-4
39-1 KXTX-DT TEL
39-2
47-1 KTAQ-DT IND
52-1 KFWD-DT IND
54-1 KLDT-DT IND
58-1 KDTX-DT IND
58-2
58-3
58-4
58-5
68-1 KPXD-DT ION
68-2
68-3
68-4

Analog - receive but not really watchable

4
5
8
11
13
21
22
23
25
26
27
28
29
33
38
39
47
52
68

Thanks Alan, I'm going to drop by Lowes and give it a try.

JChin,

Please note that what works for me, may not work for you. I only have one tv hooked up so there is no splitters involved. Plus, I don't have any large objects in it's path (skyscrapers, large building, 2 story house next door, etc). Each location is different and may require a different antenna.

When I lived in Austin, I lived on the backside of a hill with a water tower directly in the path 300 yards away. To keep my antenna in the attic (2 story house), I had to have a large antenna (CM4228) even though I was 15 miles from the towers.

Alan

Thanks Alan I will keep that in mind. I don't have any large object around, actually on my roof top I can see downtown Dallas. I was going to order the monoprice indoor unit but it seen like nobody has used it. I can give the ANT111 a try, if that doesn't work I can go with the ANT751.

Thanks Alan I will keep that in mind. I don't have any large object around, actually on my roof top I can see downtown Dallas. I was going to order the monoprice indoor unit but it seen like nobody has used it. I can give the ANT111 a try, if that doesn't work I can go with the ANT751.

Keep in mind that the transmitters are south of downtown at Cedar Hill. What do you have in that direction?

We're moving this summer from the White Rock area to Grapevine. We currently have great OTA reception via outdoor antenna on a single story house with a pretty tall mast. Looking at AntennaWeb, they're recommending the large violet category antenna for our new address, and some of the stations aren't in the list. Even more stations disappear from the list if I click the "airport within 2 miles" box. In fact none of the 4.1, 5.1, 8.1 DTV stations appear in the list unless I select "multi story home". I don't know yet if HOA allows rooftop antennas so it may go in the attic of a single-story house. Is the airport the issue? At 25 miles from Cedar Hill, I can't imagine needing one of the monster antennas.

Anyone from Grapevine, Southlake, Flower Mound have any input?

Also, I'll be distributing the antenna feed to multiple rooms and was planning to use a ChannelMaster distribution amplifier. I always hear good things about the preamps like the 7777 but as I understand it, those are more for a single home run application to one set. With the antenna on the roof or in the attic and the need to distribute to multiple rooms, is a distribution amp in the attic my best bet or is there a way to get some benefit from a preamp as well?

Thanks,
Matt

The planes taking off and landing add a lot of multipath. If you own the house, the HOA really can't say much about outdoor antennas. Federal OTARD laws limit what rules they can have to those necessary for safety (e.g. no antennas that can fall on power lines) and those that do not significantly increase the cost (e.g. they can require you to mount the antenna in the backyard if it does not limit your reception or add significant cost).

Also, I'll be distributing the antenna feed to multiple rooms and was planning to use a ChannelMaster distribution amplifier. I always hear good things about the preamps like the 7777 but as I understand it, those are more for a single home run application to one set. I have a 7777 preamp with power supply in the attic. The coax splits to 5 tuners in the house with no problems. Stations are from 45 to 70 miles away. Just my experience. YMMV, of course.

If you don't have any lowband VHFs you won't need an old school all-channel monster antenna with the very long elements. Just a ch 7-69 highband VHF + UHF fringe antenna (http://search.solidsignal.com/?site=com&q=HD+769&I1.x=0&I1.y=0).

Antennaweb.org is not exactly accurate on reception prediction. A friend's address shows NO reception at all and he's getting all the local channels he wanted. For more realistic results, in the options at the bottom of the address entry page, add 50' to the antenna height.

I have a 7777 preamp with power supply in the attic. The coax splits to 5 tuners in the house with no problems. Stations are from 45 to 70 miles away.

So I assume you have the mast-mounted portion at the antenna and the power injector/receiver in the attic but before the splitter?

If you don't have any lowband VHFs you won't need an old school all-channel monster antenna with the very long elements. Just a ch 7-69 highband VHF + UHF fringe antenna (http://search.solidsignal.com/?site=com&q=HD+769&I1.x=0&I1.y=0).

That would be great. I think the Dallas ABC affiliate will be on VHF channel 8 post-transition and will be the lowest DTV station of consequence. Looks like those Winegards go down to Ch 7 so I guess that would be fine. Might these also squeak out FM reception, too? I think FM falls in the VHF channels 5-7 freq range. I could always do a separate FM antenna if needed.


Thanks.

I don't know yet if HOA allows rooftop antennas so it may go in the attic of a single-story house.

HOA's can not restrict placement of rooftop antennas. If your location requires a 10 foot mast on top of a two story house just to get reception, then that's what you get. More info here: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Now, if your in Grapevine trying to pick up stations out of Moody (Waco), that's another story. :) With that said, I prefer mounting antennas in the attic. No need to mess with grounding there.

Alan

Edit: Missed coyoteaz reply on the subject.

So I assume you have the mast-mounted portion at the antenna and the power injector/receiver in the attic but before the splitter?Exactly.
However, you can put the power supply behind one of the TVs if you use a splitter in the attic that only passes DC through one leg and blocks it on the others. I just prefer to have the power supply in the attic to get it out of the way. I've never had a problem with heat affecting the power supply in the attic, although it was a concern initially. It gets HOT here, but not quite as hot as where you live.

Looks like those Winegards go down to Ch 7 so I guess that would be fine. Might these also squeak out FM reception, too? I think FM falls in the VHF channels 5-7 freq range. I could always do a separate FM antenna if needed.If your lowest ch is 8, one of the Winegards should be a good choice. FM is between TV chs 6 & 7. I've read that the Winegards do not offer much, if any gain in the FM band, but I've never tried them for that. You could always add a standalone FM antenna later. Here's a gain comparison chart (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=142973&d=1242601153) for the HD769 series.


Attic installs can be good, unless you have a metal roof or foil-backed radiant barrier below the roof decking. If so, forget it. Advantage is no grounding required and protection from rain/ice & wind. Disadvantage can be significant signal loss an additional multipath problems. If your antennaweb results show violet or blue channels, I would skip the attic install.

As others have said, you have the FCC on your side when it comes to antennas. You don't have to get permission from your HOA to install a standard rooftop OTA TV antenna that is no higher than 12' above the peak roof line. If they bitch, give them a copy of the FCC OTARD rules.

Thanks for the helpful info. The FCC OTARD info is great if it comes to that. After it was mentioned I remembered hearing about that on the news.

I think I'll be able to make an attic install work, especially with those UHF/upper VHF antennas. We are planning on doing radiant barrier at some point, but we have a South facing (the direction I need) gable end that can definitely be left untreated to shoot through, as long as the HardiePlank won't attenuate the signal too much.

I have hardiplank on my house. It will attenuate the signal. Especially VHF chs.

If you have blue/purple signal strengths, you need to put the antenna outside.

With the recommendation to add 50' to the AntennaWeb query, all the digitals I care about are in the yellow range.

txmatt, check your PMs.

Folks, arxaw knows his antenna & HD stuff well. Remember what You do in a fringe areas is a good practice anywhere Your doing Antenna work for the best ...

Not a huge fan of Antennaweb because the numbers it uses are pretty conservative compared to reality. TVFool's predictions are more in line with the real world.

Wizsop,

I have watched a few Universal Sports clips on their website and noticed they are all 16x9. Everything on 5.3 is 4x3. I realize that due to bandwidth concerns, you won't be broadcasting in HD on that channel, but is there any chance you can at least broadcast the full 16x9 stream at 480p instead of cropping it? (KERA does this with some older shows, advertising them as "Available in Widescreen" rather than "High Definition")

KXAS can only pass what they're given.

I am in Plano Texas on Time Warner Basic Expanded Cable, which until today had about 11 HD channels, almost all of them were simulcasts of the Major Networks.

I run my basic cable into my media center pc with analog and digital tuners. so it picks up and add digital and analog into my media center tv guide listing. for $17 a month, it has been great. Suddenly today, all my HD channels are gone !

Thinking something weird had had happened with Vista Media Center, I switch the source over to the Samsung 1080p and did a fresh scan of all signals, previously, it also found the HDTV channels, but nope...all gone

When I set up my media center it appears I get my cable line up from Bedford, as all the channels match up directly, and when I re-scanned with media center, it listed Bedford basic and Bedford HD (or something) same as always

Is the Time Warner Cable franchise in North Texas screwing with we lowly $ subscribers or is something else going on ? If anyone knows anything, please copy me on reply !

Thanks in advance

What gives? Any reason Time Warner dropped HDNet and HDNet Movies and instead added Smithsonian channel HD and ...MavTV ??

MavTV really is HORRIBLE!! the content is so cheap and the channel looks very low budget and not true HD at all.

The smithsonian channel does not offer anything more original than what we already get from Science/Discovery/History etc.

And Universal HD airs a few decent films but edited for TV and cut with commercials.


TWC - Give me one reason to continue to pay extra for the HD Tier! in fact, I'm making the call to drop it NOW.

Here we are talking about channel 5 and channel 21 stations still having very poor or NO digital reception. Looking thru the posts, it appears the issue has been around for a long time. In Mesquite the 2 channels have always been my worse even as analog. I am trying to get these to work in Seagoville with no sucess. The housing is senior subsidized and an outdoor antenna is out. Thinking about what I read, it looks like there is not much hope even though Seagoville has a direct line of site to the Cedar Hill towers. Any suggestions?
Thanks to anyone that can help!!

So I have got 3 att with different results - maybe you can give me some feedback..(I wanted to try them out, and I'll return all but one)

I bought the Channel master 4220 Hd and I get all my channels almost at 100% except 8-1 which hovers around 60, but looks great!

I bought the 4221Hd (which is twice as big) and there is no increase in signal (even one the UHF stations) - should it pick up even better since it is double the size?

Then I bought then RCA ANT 751 - and it picks things up great, and gives me about 80% on 8-1.

Anyone have any feedback, or suggestions? Thinking I should keep the RCA unit, unless there is another I should try that I can buy here in Dallas.

Thoughts, feedback, suggestions?

thanks!

Of course if the RCA is working for you then the best advice is to stick with it. The CM antennas are UHF-only, but you may be able to improve their VHF performance by widening the reflector to about 3 feet wide. (The CM 4228 has better VHF performance than the 4220 or 4221 primarily because of its wider reflector.) Not sure how practical that would be, though.

Here we are talking about channel 5 and channel 21 stations still having very poor or NO digital reception. Looking thru the posts, it appears the issue has been around for a long time. In Mesquite the 2 channels have always been my worse even as analog. I am trying to get these to work in Seagoville with no sucess. The housing is senior subsidized and an outdoor antenna is out. Thinking about what I read, it looks like there is not much hope even though Seagoville has a direct line of site to the Cedar Hill towers. Any suggestions?
Thanks to anyone that can help!!

I've also had a lot of trouble with channel 21; if you can hold out until June 12, however, it should clear up. On that day, KTVT 11 will be moving from channel 19 back to channel 11, and KTXA 21 will be moving from channel 18 and taking over KTVT's old channel 19. So if you can get KTVT now, you should get KTXA then.

Not sure what's up with KXAS 5, which is fine for me. Is KPXD 68 weak too? If so, it could be your antenna is just in a bad spot for those specific frequencies; try moving it around the room and see if you can find a place for it that works better for you.

On Friday at noon most of the DFW broadcasters will turn off Analog.

WFAA-DT moves from 9 to 8
KFWD-DT moves from 51 to 9
KTVT-DT moves from 19 to 11
KTXA-DT moves from 18 to 19
KUVN-DT moves from 24 to 23 Think this is 11pm
KLDT-DT moves from 54 to 39 No info on time

RESCAN any OTA tuners to get the moves.

Rabbit ears or the so called indoor HD TV Antennas don’t perform well on VHF television.
Perhaps the pwr increase and the Circular Pol on WFAA-DT Ch8 will help indoor reception.
JStigler
WFAA TV

On Friday at noon most of the DFW broadcasters will turn off Analog.

WFAA-DT moves from 9 to 8
KFWD-DT moves from 51 to 9
KTVT-DT moves from 19 to 11
KTXA-DT moves from 18 to 19
KUVN-DT moves from 24 to 23 Think this is 11pm
KLDT-DT moves from 54 to 39 No info on time

RESCAN any OTA tuners to get the moves.

Rabbit ears or the so called indoor HD TV Antennas don’t perform well on VHF television.
Perhaps the pwr increase and the Circular Pol on WFAA-DT Ch8 will help indoor reception.
JStigler
WFAA TV

This posting was made within 90 minutes of the big switch at noon today, which impacted most of the D/FW facilities.

Mr. Stigler's prediction was correct. WFAA-DT 8 is coming in MUCH better using a Terk HDTVa and the inexpensive DigitalStream converter box. Here in Farmers Branch near LBJ and Denton Drive, the signal strength meter increased from 37 to 61. if this is the CP-MOD of 45.0 kw with circular polarization at 1679' now in use, I think it worked out well.

Kudos to WFAA for the classy sign off of analog.

There was a period of time when KTVT was on both DT-11 and still on DT-19. By 12:45 that was resolved with sister station KTXA moving from DT-18 to KTVT's vacated DT-19. As I suspected, KTVT got hit pretty bad on the rabbit ears with the move to DT-11 with 23.0 kw. The signal strength indicator dropped from a reading of 91 on DT-19 to just 38 (with dropouts) on DT-11.

The theoretical 30-foot outdoor antenna used for the FCC table of allotments and power/HAAT figures never took the ``real world'' into account, IMHO.

I just started rescans on a couple of my TVs only to see all kinds of analog, including the likes of 4, ... who said they were signing off at noon. There is actually a "help loop" playing. Some of my TVs have really "unfriendly" channel delete interfaces and it's painful. When can we expect these stations to truely not be brodcasting on analog so I don't have to go through this multiple times?

I just started rescans on a couple of my TVs only to see all kinds of analog, including the likes of 4, ... who said they were signing off at noon. There is actually a "help loop" playing. Some of my TVs have really "unfriendly" channel delete interfaces and it's painful. When can we expect these stations to truely not be brodcasting on analog so I don't have to go through this multiple times?

Analog KXAS 5 will continue broadcasting the "help loop" and any emergency messages until June 26. Someone might wake up from a long coma in the next few weeks and not understand that we switched over to digital.

Analog KXAS 5 will continue broadcasting the "help loop" and any emergency messages until June 26. Someone might wake up from a long coma in the next few weeks and not understand that we switched over to digital.

I was afraid of that. This has really been one you know what. Can't what until we see the same organization of our health care.

UPDATE - Just heard from Fox 4 and they will continue the "Nightlite" for 30 days.

This posting was made within 90 minutes of the big switch at noon today, which impacted most of the D/FW facilities.

Mr. Stigler's prediction was correct. WFAA-DT 8 is coming in MUCH better using a Terk HDTVa and the inexpensive DigitalStream converter box. Here in Farmers Branch near LBJ and Denton Drive, the signal strength meter increased from 37 to 61. if this is the CP-MOD of 45.0 kw with circular polarization at 1679' now in use, I think it worked out well.

Kudos to WFAA for the classy sign off of analog.

There was a period of time when KTVT was on both DT-11 and still on DT-19. By 12:45 that was resolved with sister station KTXA moving from DT-18 to KTVT's vacated DT-19. As I suspected, KTVT got hit pretty bad on the rabbit ears with the move to DT-11 with 23.0 kw. The signal strength indicator dropped from a reading of 91 on DT-19 to just 38 (with dropouts) on DT-11.

The theoretical 30-foot outdoor antenna used for the FCC table of allotments and power/HAAT figures never took the ``real world'' into account, IMHO.

Same for me. WFAA 8 comes in good now. KTVT 11 is coming in very poorly.

...Kudos to WFAA for the classy sign off of analog...

Agreed. http://www.wfaa.com/video/?z=y&nvid=370890&shu=1

Kudos to WFAA for the classy sign off of analog...

Is the WFAA analog channel signoff posted anywhere? I had not seen the old WFAA signoff in years, the '60s or 70s perhaps, when they used to sign off every night. Nice old shots of Dallas and Fort Worth in that film. Had I known that would run I would have recorded it.

EDIT: here is is! The analog side final signoff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYgmSAmvG8Y

Same for me. WFAA 8 comes in good now. KTVT 11 is coming in very poorly. I am actually getting 11 stronger than 8 in FB near Josey and Valley View... 85-90% on 8, 100% on 11.

Did any other stations do anything special for their analog shutoff? KXAS was the first TV station in Dallas, surely they did something to commemorate the occasion!

In North Dallas between Plano and Carrollton and lost both 8-1 and 11-1 which used to come in clear as the day with plain rabbit ears.

Re-scan.On Friday at noon most of the DFW broadcasters will turn off Analog.

WFAA-DT moves from 9 to 8
KFWD-DT moves from 51 to 9
KTVT-DT moves from 19 to 11
KTXA-DT moves from 18 to 19
KUVN-DT moves from 24 to 23 Think this is 11pm
KLDT-DT moves from 54 to 39 No info on time

RESCAN any OTA tuners to get the moves.

Rabbit ears or the so called indoor HD TV Antennas don’t perform well on VHF television.
Perhaps the pwr increase and the Circular Pol on WFAA-DT Ch8 will help indoor reception.
JStigler
WFAA TV

Folks,

I'm looking for advice on purchasing and installing a combined outdoor t.v. and FM radio antenna (if there is such a thing). I'm in Arlington, Texas (Zip code 76012) in the DFW area, near NE Green Oaks between Davis and Cooper.

I just hooked up a Digital Stream / NHENS DTX 9950 digital converter box between a set of cheap semi-broken RCA rabbit ears sitting waist-high and a Toshiba analog t.v.

With the rabbit ears oriented such that I get my favorite channel (13/PBS) the clearest, I find that I don't get channels 11 (CBS), 8 (ABC) or 5 (NBC) very clearly - the pictures are pixelated and the audio cuts in and out if I get them at all - thus my thinking I need an outdoor antenna. Signal strength for ch. 8 fluctuates from about 15-23%; 5 is from 25-47%; 11 (CBS) and 27 (KDFI) are non-existent. The stronger, clear stations, ch. 4 (Fox) and 13 (PBS) come in at about 68% for ch. 4/Fox and 52-53% for ch. 13. In other words, the strongest stations come in at yellow strength, the weakest at red; none are green (at least the ones I watch most). The transmitters at Cedar Hill are at about 140° 17 miles away.

Also, I notice that my cheap mini-ghetto-blaster boombox will, when near a western window, pick up low-powered FM radio station KTCU from southwestern Ft. Worth while my expensive (but un-antennaed) Bose clock radio in a northeastern bedroom won't. And I don't have an HD radio yet but I'm interested in getting one.

My tasteless idiot neighbor about 20' to the east has rebuilt his house into a two-story monstrosity in the middle of a neighborhood of one-story homes, and there's a large live oak (it's at least 20' tall) in my back yard that pretty much fills, when looking south, the gap from where the back of the east neighbor's house ends through the eastern half of my house. However I think an outdoor antenna mounted high enough somewhere on the southwestern corner of my house or in the attic there (over the garage) might have a clear shot to the Cedar Hill towers, or at least nearly so. There's no radiant barrier on the roof, though the western gable attic wall has aluminum siding between the top of the brick wall and the roof.

There's an unused but still-cabled satellite dish on the northwestern side of the house - would this be of any use in receiving terrestrial t.v. and radio signals without being subscribed to satellite service? Though it's outside the bulk of the roof is between it and the Cedar Hill towers.

My goal is to provide antennaed t.v. and FM radio reception to one jack in each of four rooms of my house (three bedrooms and a dining area), all equidistant (about 35 feet or so) from, and forming a right angle with, the proposed antenna site at the vertex. I don't have an HD radio yet but I'm interested in getting one.

Can anybody recommend some gear for me to pull this off as a do-it-yourself project, or should I hire someone to do it? Can I get by with one jack in each room, or will I need separate radio and t.v. jacks?

One concern I have is the mounting of the antenna - can it be mounted on a sloped shingled roof, or should I plan on attaching it to the vertical part of the western gable? Maybe inside the attic would be OK since I'm so close to the Cedar Hill transmitters?

I've searched this forum but I don't find any information specific to reception in Arlington, so informed advice would be appreciated.

EP

...
WFAA-DT moves from 9 to 8
KFWD-DT moves from 51 to 9
KTVT-DT moves from 19 to 11
KTXA-DT moves from 18 to 19
KUVN-DT moves from 24 to 23 Think this is 11pm
KLDT-DT moves from 54 to 39 No info on time...

Can someone refer me to a comprehensive list of the DFW DMA digital assignments. I used to believe this one (http://www.nab.org/AM/ASPCode/DTVStations/DTVStations.asp)was accurate, but it does not incorporate the aforementioned changes.

I sent them an update after reading your post. I would have thought they were on top of this but then there are lots of stations.
JStigler

Folks,

I'm looking for advice on purchasing and installing a combined outdoor t.v. and FM radio antenna (if there is such a thing). I'm in Arlington, Texas (Zip code 76012) in the DFW area, near NE Green Oaks between Davis and Cooper.

I just hooked up a Digital Stream / NHENS DTX 9950 digital converter box between a set of cheap semi-broken RCA rabbit ears sitting waist-high and a Toshiba analog t.v.

With the rabbit ears oriented such that I get my favorite channel (13/PBS) the clearest, I find that I don't get channels 11 (CBS), 8 (ABC) or 5 (NBC) very clearly - the pictures are pixelated and the audio cuts in and out if I get them at all - thus my thinking I need an outdoor antenna. Signal strength for ch. 8 fluctuates from about 15-23%; 5 is from 25-47%; 11 (CBS) and 27 (KDFI) are non-existent. The stronger, clear stations, ch. 4 (Fox) and 13 (PBS) come in at about 68% for ch. 4/Fox and 52-53% for ch. 13. In other words, the strongest stations come in at yellow strength, the weakest at red; none are green (at least the ones I watch most). The transmitters at Cedar Hill are at about 140° 17 miles away.

Also, I notice that my cheap mini-ghetto-blaster boombox will, when near a western window, pick up low-powered FM radio station KTCU from southwestern Ft. Worth while my expensive (but un-antennaed) Bose clock radio in a northeastern bedroom won't. And I don't have an HD radio yet but I'm interested in getting one.

My tasteless idiot neighbor about 20' to the east has rebuilt his house into a two-story monstrosity in the middle of a neighborhood of one-story homes, and there's a large live oak (it's at least 20' tall) in my back yard that pretty much fills, when looking south, the gap from where the back of the east neighbor's house ends through the eastern half of my house. However I think an outdoor antenna mounted high enough somewhere on the southwestern corner of my house or in the attic there (over the garage) might have a clear shot to the Cedar Hill towers, or at least nearly so. There's no radiant barrier on the roof, though the western gable attic wall has aluminum siding between the top of the brick wall and the roof.

There's an unused but still-cabled satellite dish on the northwestern side of the house - would this be of any use in receiving terrestrial t.v. and radio signals without being subscribed to satellite service? Though it's outside the bulk of the roof is between it and the Cedar Hill towers.

My goal is to provide antennaed t.v. and FM radio reception to one jack in each of four rooms of my house (three bedrooms and a dining area), all equidistant (about 35 feet or so) from, and forming a right angle with, the proposed antenna site at the vertex. I don't have an HD radio yet but I'm interested in getting one.

Can anybody recommend some gear for me to pull this off as a do-it-yourself project, or should I hire someone to do it? Can I get by with one jack in each room, or will I need separate radio and t.v. jacks?

One concern I have is the mounting of the antenna - can it be mounted on a sloped shingled roof, or should I plan on attaching it to the vertical part of the western gable? Maybe inside the attic would be OK since I'm so close to the Cedar Hill transmitters?

I've searched this forum but I don't find any information specific to reception in Arlington, so informed advice would be appreciated.

EP

Can you go to Tvfool, save your post transition results and post them here, we can give a good recommendation with ease, having the results!

I sent them an update after reading your post. I would have thought they were on top of this but then there are lots of stations.
JStigler

I did that too, but one quickly loses confidence in a site such as that when they don't keep something as critical as channel assignments up-to-date. I assumed there was a more official site.

In North Dallas between Plano and Carrollton and lost both 8-1 and 11-1 which used to come in clear as the day with plain rabbit ears.

I'm in West Plano, and also had trouble with 8 and 11. Investigation revealed that my Windows Vista Media Center PC hadn't received updated frequency assignments. (Same for the channel that moved to frequency 9.) I changed them manually, and now both stations come in well.

There're several active threads on www.thegreenbutton.com about channel information issues in Media Center. This site is owned by Microsoft, and they seem to be responding promptly.

-- Pete

Can someone refer me to a comprehensive list of the DFW DMA digital assignments. I used to believe this one (http://www.nab.org/AM/ASPCode/DTVStations/DTVStations.asp)was accurate, but it does not incorporate the aforementioned changes.
http://rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=5

Wizsop,

I have watched a few Universal Sports clips on their website and noticed they are all 16x9. Everything on 5.3 is 4x3. I realize that due to bandwidth concerns, you won't be broadcasting in HD on that channel, but is there any chance you can at least broadcast the full 16x9 stream at 480p instead of cropping it? (KERA does this with some older shows, advertising them as "Available in Widescreen" rather than "High Definition")

Anything we add to US will take away from 5.1. I believe most of what comes to us on satellite is 4:3. It may be 16:9 originally but by the time they put it on the sat is 4:3. Let me watch it for a couple of days and see what is coming down.

Whoo hoo! Now if we could get a KERA engineer in here to explain why their bit rate is so incredibly LOW and the audio is broadcast in 2.0 stereo.

...
WFAA-DT moves from 9 to 8
KFWD-DT moves from 51 to 9
KTVT-DT moves from 19 to 11
KTXA-DT moves from 18 to 19
KUVN-DT moves from 24 to 23 Think this is 11pm
KLDT-DT moves from 54 to 39...Can someone refer me to a comprehensive list of the DFW DMA digital assignments. I used to believe this one (http://www.nab.org/AM/ASPCode/DTVStations/DTVStations.asp)was accurate, but it does not incorporate the aforementioned changes.
http://rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=5

Thanks, coyoteaz! Now, I remember seeing this site before. I'll add it to the favorites this time.

Folks,

I'm looking for advice on purchasing and installing a combined outdoor t.v. and FM radio antenna (if there is such a thing). I'm in Arlington, Texas (Zip code 76012) in the DFW area, near NE Green Oaks between Davis and Cooper.

I just hooked up a Digital Stream / NHENS DTX 9950 digital converter box between a set of cheap semi-broken RCA rabbit ears sitting waist-high and a Toshiba analog t.v.

With the rabbit ears oriented such that I get my favorite channel (13/PBS) the clearest, I find that I don't get channels 11 (CBS), 8 (ABC) or 5 (NBC) very clearly - the pictures are pixelated and the audio cuts in and out if I get them at all - thus my thinking I need an outdoor antenna. Signal strength for ch. 8 fluctuates from about 15-23%; 5 is from 25-47%; 11 (CBS) and 27 (KDFI) are non-existent. The stronger, clear stations, ch. 4 (Fox) and 13 (PBS) come in at about 68% for ch. 4/Fox and 52-53% for ch. 13. In other words, the strongest stations come in at yellow strength, the weakest at red; none are green (at least the ones I watch most). The transmitters at Cedar Hill are at about 140° 17 miles away.

Also, I notice that my cheap mini-ghetto-blaster boombox will, when near a western window, pick up low-powered FM radio station KTCU from southwestern Ft. Worth while my expensive (but un-antennaed) Bose clock radio in a northeastern bedroom won't. And I don't have an HD radio yet but I'm interested in getting one.

My tasteless idiot neighbor about 20' to the east has rebuilt his house into a two-story monstrosity in the middle of a neighborhood of one-story homes, and there's a large live oak (it's at least 20' tall) in my back yard that pretty much fills, when looking south, the gap from where the back of the east neighbor's house ends through the eastern half of my house. However I think an outdoor antenna mounted high enough somewhere on the southwestern corner of my house or in the attic there (over the garage) might have a clear shot to the Cedar Hill towers, or at least nearly so. There's no radiant barrier on the roof, though the western gable attic wall has aluminum siding between the top of the brick wall and the roof.

There's an unused but still-cabled satellite dish on the northwestern side of the house - would this be of any use in receiving terrestrial t.v. and radio signals without being subscribed to satellite service? Though it's outside the bulk of the roof is between it and the Cedar Hill towers.

My goal is to provide antennaed t.v. and FM radio reception to one jack in each of four rooms of my house (three bedrooms and a dining area), all equidistant (about 35 feet or so) from, and forming a right angle with, the proposed antenna site at the vertex.

Can anybody recommend some gear for me to pull this off as a do-it-yourself project, or should I hire someone to do it? Can I get by with one jack in each room, or will I need separate radio and t.v. jacks?

One concern I have is the mounting of the antenna - can it be mounted on a sloped shingled roof, or should I plan on attaching it to the vertical wall of the western gable? Maybe inside the attic would be OK since I'm so close to the Cedar Hill transmitters?

I've searched this forum but I don't find any information specific to reception in Arlington, so informed advice would be appreciated.

EP

Can you go to Tvfool, save your post transition results and post them here, we can give a good recommendation with ease, having the results!

Here're TVFool's "TV Signal Analysis Results" (I tried to cut-and-paste the results themselves but it doesn't work - it looks like the reference is the best I'm gonna be able to do:

Here are the results for your location. The transmitter database was last updated on June 12, 2009. For more information about these plots and how to interpret them, please check out the Signal Analysis FAQ.

If you would like to share these results with others, this page can be referenced as: tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663deb5ee06faf

Can you go to Tvfool, save your post transition results and post them here, we can give a good recommendation with ease, having the results!

GJ,

Since I'm a newbie here I can't even post url ref's here either, so I've printed the TVFool results as a Word doc and (hopefully) attached them to this message.

Thank you for your offer to assist.

EP

Can you go to Tvfool, save your post transition results and post them here, we can give a good recommendation with ease, having the results!
GJ,

Also, contrary to my original post, upon further reflection I realize that the terrain slopes upward considerably to the south from here such that I can't realistically put an antenna high enough to be in direct view of the transmitter towers; there's also a multi-story office tower about a mile-and-a-half to the south on a terrestrial high point.

Also, there are power lines running all along the south edge of the property here about 12-15' off the ground.

Lastly, there are a lot of 20-30' live oak trees in this neighborhood, including plenty between me and the transmitter towers.

EP

Can you go to Tvfool, save your post transition results and post them here, we can give a good recommendation with ease, having the results!

GJ,

In case its easier for you to read ".png" files (which can be read in Microsoft Photo Editor) rather than ".doc" (Word) files, I've attached here the TV signal strength analysis results from TVFool.com as a ".png" file.

EP

Can you go to Tvfool, save your post transition results and post them here, we can give a good recommendation with ease, having the results!

GJ,

And, since I'm looking for an antenna rig that will improve radio as well as TV reception, I've attached the results of FMFool.com's FM radio signal strength analysis (as a ".png" file).

EP

GJ,

In case its easier for you to read ".png" files (which can be read in Microsoft Photo Editor) rather than ".doc" (Word) files, I've attached here the TV signal strength analysis results from TVFool.com as a ".png" file.

EP

You have a few options. If you did not want the FM side of the antenna, I would get a Winegard HD7694 or Antenna Craft HBU22. If you want FM a
Channel Master CM 3016 or Radio Shack VU-90 would work great. No need for pre-amp if you are not splitting it more then 3-4 times. Get it up as high as possible and you should be good.

I guess I'm not the only one seeing signal loss for KTVT. I have a Wineguard Square Shooter that was installed a year ago. All other channels work great, but now KTVT comes in at 50%. Any suggestions?

Here is my TV Fool results: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663d02ee4db873

Is it as simple has repointing the antenna?

I guess I'm not the only one seeing signal loss for KTVT. I have a Wineguard Square Shooter...

As per Winegard "While this antenna may pick up VHF Ch 7-13 and the amplfier passes VHF/UHF, this antenna is engineered for UHF signals".

Winegarddirect.com/Winegard-SS-2000 SquareShooter UHF Only Amplified Antenna (http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem~p~ss-2000~d~Winegard-SS-2000-SquareShooter-UHF-Only-Amplified-DigitalAnalogHDTV-Antenna-(SS2000)~post~.htm)

You do have the SS-2000 amplified version?


Looking at the polar patterns Winegard shows, on VHF 7 & 10 the main lobe (peak VHF signal) is darn near 45° off axis from the UHF!

You do have the SS-2000 amplified version?

No, the SS-1000, un-amplified


Looking at the polar patterns Winegard shows, on VHF 7 & 10 the main lobe (peak VHF signal) is darn near 45° off axis from the UHF!

In short, I need a different antenna? Nuts, I thought I was ahead of curve when I installed this a year ago.

No, the SS-1000, un-amplified

You could try this, might be worth a try, I've seen them for less than $40, if the strongest stations don't overload it.
SS-1000 amplifier (http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem~p~anwhdp269~d~Winegard-HDP-269-SquareShooter-PreAmplifier-for-SquareShooter-SS1000-(HDP269)~post~.htm)




In short, I need a different antenna? Nuts, I thought I was ahead of curve when I installed this a year ago.

Probably. The off-axis VHF looks like less than a dB off from optimum with it aimed straight at the towers so I don't think re-aiming it will help much if any.

I have a fairly small amplified Channel Master "StealthTenna" (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC3010KIT) up that feeds a couple of TVs in another part of the house, its amplifier doesn't overload, works equally well on VHF and UHF, size is about 40" at the widest points.

Anyone having audio/video dropouts on WFAA since the transition? Signal is strong, looks like problems at the transmitter.

Anyone having audio/video dropouts on WFAA since the transition? Signal is strong, looks like problems at the transmitter.
Haven't noticed any problem with 8, but I am hearing random slight crackling, popping noise in the audio on 21 with otherwise strong signal, on two different TVs and a converter box.

I'm in Richardson. I did a re-scan on my converter, no 11 to be seen. I can get 8 however, hovering around 60%.

I have a 2-bay screen UHF antenna & realize that's the issue, but it is interesting that I can get 8 (whose tower is right across the highway from 11.)

I'm in Richardson. I did a re-scan on my converter, no 11 to be seen. I can get 8 however, hovering around 60%.

I have a 2-bay screen UHF antenna & realize that's the issue, but it is interesting that I can get 8 (whose tower is right across the highway from 11.)
Slightly different paths. Ever notice while driving and listening to the FM radio, you might pull up to a stop in a spot where the signal suddenly is total trash, move up a foot or two and the signal is clear? Move your TV antenna a few feet in any direction and it might completely change the reception of 8 and 11.

I had to relocate my TV antenna 60 ft behind my house in the attic of my garage to get out of the shadows and multipath that were tearing up most UHF when I first tried the digital channels a few years ago. Happened upon a "sweet spot" out in the garage. I rescued an old antenna from a neighbor about to discard it, and put that antenna in the garage attic for a TV I have out in the shop area. Low and behold, it received ALL channels great! So I buried about 75 ft of RG6 in PVC conduit to get that signal to the house. Whatever it takes!

I'm in Richardson. I did a re-scan on my converter, no 11 to be seen. I can get 8 however, hovering around 60%.

I have a 2-bay screen UHF antenna & realize that's the issue, but it is interesting that I can get 8 (whose tower is right across the highway from 11.)

Aside from the UHF antenna you're using, another factor is the power disparity between the two Cedar Hill facilities. KTVT/11 is 23.0 kw at 1707' HAAT whereas WFAA/8 is 45.0 kw at 1679' HAAT.

I am in Decatur, Wise County, and had received KTVT 11 just fine with my above the roof antenna - but with the June 12 switch to DTV I no longer can get a signal. I have a dish service (DirecTV) so I am able to get programming via that!
I notice that the fcc map shows my loss is expected (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report_0609/Dallas-Ft_Worth_TX.pdf) and I notice that many of the broadcasters are listed with "granted construction permit"! Wonder if that means they intend to boost their signals? I notice that my TV Fool map (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90)also shows low level signal expectation!

.. the fcc map shows my loss is expected.. and I notice that many of the broadcasters are listed with "granted construction permit"... Maybe they are planning a SFN system (Single Frequency Network) that acts as a signal repeater or booster and fills in the reception holes and shadows.

I'm in Keller, with an external 'youtube' antenna, and can no longer get 11. 8 comes in just fine.

Does anybody know if 11 is planning on boosting thier output anytime soon??

I'm in Keller, with an external 'youtube' antenna, and can no longer get 11. 8 comes in just fine.

Does anybody know if 11 is planning on boosting thier output anytime soon??

I just checked the FCC's Video Division's application list and there's nothing filed to increase KTVT's power. The 23.0 kw at 1707' HAAT is likely the maximum considering that co-channel RF-11 is also assigned to the Wichita Falls-Lawton market. There *may* also be interference possible with adjacent channel RF-10 in Waco-Temple and RF-12 in Sherman-Denison-Ardmore that preclude anything beyond the present power/height combination.

Based solely upon a non-scientific, empirical ``study'' performed last night using a portable ATSC-capable handheld set with the installed unipole antenna at these points:

US-67 at Tidell Street
US-67 at Cockrell Hill
US-67 at Danieldale
IH-20 at Camp Wisdom
Spur 408 at Keist
Loop 12 at Singleton
Loop 12 at Shady Grove
Loop 12 at Union Bower

...my anecdotal ``evidence'' shows that KTVT suffers greatly in comparison to WFAA on RF-8 with 45.0 kw. At ALL of those points, WFAA come in with more than sufficient strength to lock the signal. Sadly, KTVT was too weak to lock once beyond the Spur 408 at Keist location.

Of course, KTVT covers sufficiently well with a proper antenna and is not nearly facing the challenges of other VHFs such as WPVI/Philadelphia (the ``hair dryer'' ), WBAL/Baltimore and WWBT/Richmond.

Nevertheless, in my unscientific (but ``real world'') approximations last night, KTVT just isn't at parity with WFAA. If I ran things at CBS, and strictly *IMHO*, I'd maybe look into swapping facilities with KLDT/54 which should have a pretty good facility once they maximize to the full 1,000 kw at 1673' HAAT on RF-39, non-directional.

Of course, with all of the problems arising from DTV on VHF, the FCC *MAY* be looking at readjusting the power levels upward. KTVT could be just waiting it out. Hopefully the dust will settle by Cowboys pre-season since this market has a fair amount of OTA viewing.

I am in Decatur, Wise County, and had received KTVT 11 just fine with my above the roof antenna - but with the June 12 switch to DTV I no longer can get a signal. I have a dish service (DirecTV) so I am able to get programming via that!
I notice that the fcc map shows my loss is expected (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report_0609/Dallas-Ft_Worth_TX.pdf) and I notice that many of the broadcasters are listed with "granted construction permit"! Wonder if that means they intend to boost their signals? I notice that my TV Fool map (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90)also shows low level signal expectation!

I am in Frisco with a rooftop antenna. I did not completely loose channel 11, but my signal strength dropped from the 70s to 40%. I hope they increase the power on this station.

Anything we add to US will take away from 5.1. I believe most of what comes to us on satellite is 4:3. It may be 16:9 originally but by the time they put it on the sat is 4:3. Let me watch it for a couple of days and see what is coming down.

Is anyone else having trouble with KXAS? I had KXAS until June 12. Now nothing. I'm using a Channel Master ant. (in my attic) I bought a couple of years ago. It's rated to 40 miles. I'm in Bedford (21.3 mi. from Cedar Hill according to TVFool). I've added a 24db gain amp. I've turned the ant. to tune it in to Cedar Hill. I rescanned and get every channel great except KXAS. I have 4 converter boxes (one on rabbit ears) and a HDTV DLP set. As I said I have no problems with any channel except KXAS (even the rabbit ears work except for KXAS). Any suggestions? Thanks.