I am helping out my grandfather with his new HDTV remotely and he lives near Dallas (I am in Colorado). He actually lives in Malakoff which is in between Athens and Corsicana if you arent familar with it. If I believe the antennaweb.org, they look to be 60-75mi from the broadcast antenna location.

My basic question is about the range of those signals. Should I expect them to pick them up with a basic powered antenna?

Most of us greatly prefer TV Fool over the dubious antennaweb (notorious for its incorrect database of facilities). In general, Malakoff appears to be well situated for receiving Cedar Hill facilities:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d0b869caa0467f8

I'd try either an AntennaCraft HBU-44 (available at Radio Shack) or a Winegard HD7696P (often found at Frys). Put it high and outside and aim it at Cedar Hill. I wouldn't even bother with the stations in Tyler/Longview/Jacksonville.

Unless there's loss in the coax run from the antenna to the receiver, a preamp isn't a must. If you do opt for a preamp, get one where the power supply is a separate unit from the actual preamp module so that the latter can be located at the antenna itself.

Here's my list of preamps I've used successfully:

AntennasDirect CPA19
ChannelMaster CM-7777
KitzTech KT-200

(That's my final post for the day -- the Super Bowl is nigh. See you all much later).

Most of us greatly prefer TV Fool over the dubious antennaweb (notorious for its incorrect database of facilities). In general, Malakoff appears to be well situated for receiving Cedar Hill facilities:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d0b869caa0467f8

I'd try either an AntennaCraft HBU-44 (available at Radio Shack) or a Winegard HD7696P (often found at Frys). Put it high and outside and aim it at Cedar Hill. I wouldn't even bother with the stations in Tyler/Longview/Jacksonville.

Unless there's loss in the coax run from the antenna to the receiver, a preamp isn't a must. If you do opt for a preamp, get one where the power supply is a separate unit from the actual preamp module so that the latter can be located at the antenna itself.

Here's my list of preamps I've used successfully:

AntennasDirect CPA19
ChannelMaster CM-7777
KitzTech KT-200

(That's my final post for the day -- the Super Bowl is nigh. See you all much later).

Thanks so much for the fast reply. Tvfool is indicating I likely need a roof/attic mount for most signals but that is not exactly plausible due to his age. What would you guess would be my success with a powered indoor antenna? I dont know the topology in that area but I expect it to be mostly flat but I could be wrong.

If you are in a brick, stone, concrete, or other such structure that includes ether masonry or steel, you are at the mercy of the building, not the antenna. If you're on the "wrong" side of the building, you might just as well assume you're SOL unless you get lucky and can catch a reflection off something outside.

The SS3000 would likely do best on the single VHF channel you have (WFAA) over the stock C2, but the C2 would overall do better that the SS3000 on the UHF reception. Adding the C2 VHF upgrade kit and the indoor Variable Line Amp from AD and you have about as good an indoor antenna (albeit expensive) as can be had for its relative size.

There's also KFWD/52 on VHF (channel 9). Its programming has gotten far better of late and might be worthwhile to get along with WFAA on virtual and actual channel 8.

(And of course, KTVT/11 continues its simulcast on RF-11 as well as RF-19. Actually 11 is is licensed facility and 19 is operating on an STA that's been around since August 2009).

In any case, blueapplepaste is a mile from the center of downtown Dallas (as shown by the distance to KLEG, atop the Bank of America Building). As you said, facing east when Cedar Hill is to the southwest is going to be a real hit-or-miss challenge for OTA. The signals are plenty hot from Cedar Hill but I can imagine at how distorted the 8VSB spectrum must appear being on the "other" (non-LOS) side, fighting metal in the structure and the multiple reflections from nearby buildings.

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll continue to futz around with it. I might order that amplifier and see what happens. Really hoping I don't have to go back to getting cable. :(

How about a reminder about the antenna model your using?

Antennacraft 5884

KXAS is another matter since it ought to be solid, with one of the better signals in the market. How well do you get its sister station, KXTX (Telmundo) on channel 39? They're on the same tower at Cedar Hill and the reception ought to be nearly identical for these two co-owned, co-located facilities.

Were these two among the stations that were reading strong on the roof? If so, I'd recommend a preamp mounted as near to the antenna as possible. If you're using a preamp that's located after the coax cable run, you're amplifying the signal after it has been degraded.

Signal on KXTX is in the 70's (72%-78%) but it is not one of the stations that we normally watch. Yes, KXAS and KXTX had very strong signals on the roof which is why I was so disappointed to see the signal strength on the sets in the house.

There are a number of preamps where the power supply can be used indoors with the preamp module itself located at the antenna. The power travels up the coax to the preamp module. Some of the ones I've used of this type are:

AntennasDirect CPA19
ChannelMaster CM-7777
KitzTech KT-200

I'll investigate the preamps option and report back with my results. Thanks again for the help.

Good replies all. Let me add my thoughts:

I finally found the time to get up on the roof and make some adjustments. I took a little TV up on the roof so that I could make adjustments using the signal strength meter on the digital converter box. I twisted the antenna around until I had all channels pulling in 87%-97% signal strength. Apparently I'm losing signal down the coax from the roof to the splitter in the attic. Most stations have a much stronger signal than before except for KXAS and KERA. KERA holds steady at around 55% with practically no drop outs...I can live with that. KXAS drifts up and down between 40%-45% even dropping below 40% regularly with picture loss and the "Weak Signal" message appearing on the screen. I do have the coax plugged into an amp before it goes to the splitter. Without the amp there was no KXAS or KERA at all. What now?

Since everything was coming in strong on the roof, it sounds as if there's something wrong with the cable going from your antenna to your amp. Perhaps there's a pinch or other damage where it enters the roof. So my next questions would be: 1) How long is that cable, and 2) How easy would it be to replace?

If it's not too long and easy to replace, that might be worth a try. If it's really long, I'd go with RE Nelson's suggestion and replace the downstream amp with a mast-mounted preamp. (I use a Channel Master 7777 preamp and it works great.) A preamp might let you "power through" a bad cable, so you wouldn't need to replace it. (Most likely, you wouldn't need your current amp anymore.)

If you decide to replace the cable, make sure to get RG-6 instead of RG-59, especially if it's over 25 feet. RG-6 is a little thicker but will lose less signal, especially at the top of the UHF band. (You'll probably want KTXD/47 once Me-TV starts.) "Quad shield" is even better but probably an unnecessary expense unless you plan on adding a satellite dish at some point.

Your low reading on KERA sounds about right; that's what I get too but it's perfectly watchable. KXAS is more puzzling; each of us seems to have a station or two that "should" come in a lot stronger than they actually do in practice. You said KXTX/39 was decent; how is KPXD/68?

If it's OK too the impairment is specifically at RF 41. You may have an "accidental" notch filter somewhere; perhaps your cable is damaged in two places about 3 inches (or an odd multiple, i.e. 9 or 15 inches) apart. At most frequencies the two impairments weaken the signal independently, but the signal will bounce from the second to the first and back again, and at RF 41 the two signals will interfere destructively and cancel out. (Could also happen if you have a 3-inch cable stub connected to your splitter.)

I stumbled upon this forum and thread and am hoping you guys with way more experience can help me out. Recently ditched cable, but still want to get the networks.

I recently moved to right outside downtown dallas and currently live on the 5th floor of a massive brick and concrete building. I live on the east side of the building, and from what I can tell all the towers broadcast from west of me, meaning I don't have a clear shot of the signal.

I just went onto Amazon and looked up indoor antennas and picked up the Mohu Leaf. Got a ton of channels, however, most I don't care about. I could never get all of the network channels. i.e. I'd get ABC, and CBS, but not FOX, and NBC would be intermittent. I could adjust it, but then I'd lose ABC, but get NBC, etc. I tried installing an amplifier, didn't really do much.

So I ordered at clearstream 2, which looked a larger and seemed it might get better reception. Hasn't really made anything better. I absolutely must have an indoor antenna b/c of where I live.

From just browsing the thread, I'm wondering if the Winegard SS-3000 might be worth a shot. Seems it is recommended. One of the top reviews mentioned living in a city with concrete and brick buildings all around, which is my situation right now.

Any other advice would be greatly recommended. I'm enjoying saving $100 not having cable, but not being able to watch the networks is going to be a deal breaker with the wife, especially when the Olympics are on.

Downtown, I suspect your biggest problem will be multipath interference. The CS 2 is an excellent antenna, but it has one weakness: it's not very directional, which means it's susceptible to multipath. The SS-3000 is a smaller, lower gain antenna, but it might actually be better in a downtown environment because its "side-by-side" design makes it more directional.

The towers will be to your south-southwest (as TV Fool showed), but if you don't have direct line-of-sight in that direction, you'll have to try for a good reflection. I see you're on the east side of the building. If you have any south-facing windows, try placing your antenna there. If you have a balcony, put it out there: if you can, put it where it can see "around the corner." Otherwise, as a last resort try aiming at a building facade to your south-southeast to try for a good low-angle reflection. Unfortunately there will probably be multiple buildings and therefore multiple reflections from that direction, but at least the reflections will be static since buildings don't blow in the wind as much as trees, so if you can find a good signal it should be pretty steady.

I am helping out my grandfather with his new HDTV remotely and he lives near Dallas (I am in Colorado). He actually lives in Malakoff which is in between Athens and Corsicana if you arent familar with it. If I believe the antennaweb.org, they look to be 60-75mi from the broadcast antenna location.

My basic question is about the range of those signals. Should I expect them to pick them up with a basic powered antenna?

I apologize if this has been written on in the 217 pages of this thread and I cant seem to drill down enough on a search.

Many thanks for the assistance!

According to TV Fool your grandfather is just over 60 miles out. The biggest problem at that distance will be fading: the signal will start out fine, but weaken and drop out for several seconds (usually when your favorite sports team is about to take the lead), then come back for a while longer.

An indoor antenna will be nearly useless at that distance, and a built-in amp won't help. Your best defense is to get the biggest, baddest antenna you can afford, and mount it as high as practical. I'd recommend hiring someone to do a rooftop installation, so your granddad doesn't have to deal with it himself.

The HBU-44 is a really good antenna at VHF-Hi, but may not be quite enough at UHF. If you can afford it, I'd recommend it's bigger brother, the HBU-55, or one of its competitiors, such as the Winegard 7698 or Channel Master 2020, just for the extra safety margin against fading.

Actually, all transmitted ATSC digital signals do have an absolute audio reference level (programmed into the PSIP data). And under the new federal CALM Act which adopted and incorporated the ATSC audio standard, ALL "peak/average" audio levels relative to the type of the audio content are set at -24 db, a 7 db offset to the theoretical -31 db output of an ATSC receive tuner. This offset is maintained at the receiver end of the process. For instance, in the past, many stations had -27 db as the reference "peak/average" level which the receive tuner would automatically reduce by 4 db to achieve the -31 db output specification.

The psychoacoustic aspects and processing aspects of audio make achieving constant average audio levels as heard by each individual's ears and interpreted by their brain between different types of programming much less between stations very difficult. However, the new law/regulations are now in effect with hard enforcement by the FCC expected to first occur this December (2012).

The proper level relative to the program content from content providers to transmission must be maintained. However, transitioning from a quiet dialogue program segment to a "bright" commercial will always be challenging. The only way to achieve that with level volume to an individual's ears/brain is with heavy intrusive audio processing which will almost always destroy the dynamic range and/or tonal balance content of the programming. And yet the dynamic range capabilities of the ATSC Dolby AC-3 digital audio system is one of its greatest attributes.

Which way do you want it? Which way do we want it? All of us in the industry struggle with that question.

Thanks; this is all good to know. But I was less concerned with volume changes coming from a single A/V source, such as a single ATSC subchannel, as much as with volume changes when switching from one source to another. As a practical matter audio volume does, and probably always will, vary among A/V sources due to factors such as different types of programming, varying levels of audio compression, LPTVs that don't have the expertise to follow the rules, non-ATSC sources (cable/satellite/DVD), etc. Enhancing TVs to remember each input source's volume setting would be far simpler than trying to standardize the entire world of A/V and, I think, useful even in the post-CALM Act era.

Downtown, I suspect your biggest problem will be multipath interference. The CS 2 is an excellent antenna, but it has one weakness: it's not very directional, which means it's susceptible to multipath. The SS-3000 is a smaller, lower gain antenna, but it might actually be better in a downtown environment because its "side-by-side" design makes it more directional.

The towers will be to your south-southwest (as TV Fool showed), but if you don't have direct line-of-sight in that direction, you'll have to try for a good reflection. I see you're on the east side of the building. If you have any south-facing windows, try placing your antenna there. If you have a balcony, put it out there: if you can, put it where it can see "around the corner." Otherwise, as a last resort try aiming at a building facade to your south-southeast to try for a good low-angle reflection. Unfortunately there will probably be multiple buildings and therefore multiple reflections from that direction, but at least the reflections will be static since buildings don't blow in the wind as much as trees, so if you can find a good signal it should be pretty steady.

Yeah, I went ahead and ordered the SS-3000 from Amazon - they have a great return policy, so we'll see.

I face just east, no balcony, no south facings, no anything. But I'll get it set up and see what happens...

My CM-3020 works well in Decatur, gets most of the Cedar Hill towers at 80 to 100% in cases. Wichita Falls is a excellent player here as well, since I have my antenna situated at 50 feet (increased from 40), I can pick up KFDX, KAUZ, KJTL, and maybe KSWO in tropospheric enhancement cases at roughly 40 to 60%.

Yeah, I went ahead and ordered the SS-3000 from Amazon - they have a great return policy, so we'll see.

I face just east, no balcony, no south facings, no anything. But I'll get it set up and see what happens...

Hope it helps. Maybe you can set it up along the north wall so it can "see" out your window to the SSE without taking up too much of your living room. Usually I recommend setting antennas up high, but it has to "look" through a window in your case, so don't put it up higher than the window - but try to find a spot where you won't walk in front of it too much. Finding a good spot might be tough.

My CM-3020 works well in Decatur, gets most of the Cedar Hill towers at 80 to 100% in cases. Wichita Falls is a excellent player here as well, since I have my antenna situated at 50 feet (increased from 40), I can pick up KFDX, KAUZ, KJTL, and maybe KSWO in tropospheric enhancement cases at roughly 40 to 60%.

I have a 3020 too and love it, even though it's overkill for my location. I was looking at a 3018 at Fry's but thought, "the 3020 is only $10 more; why not?"

It'd be a good choice for HateNewNHL's granddad, except since he doesn't need VHF-Lo frequencies, I'd go with the smaller (thus easier to keep up in bad weather) 2020 instead. I edited my response above to include the 2020 as an option.

Hope it helps. Maybe you can set it up along the north wall so it can "see" out your window to the SSE without taking up too much of your living room. Usually I recommend setting antennas up high, but it has to "look" through a window in your case, so don't put it up higher than the window - but try to find a spot where you won't walk in front of it too much. Finding a good spot might be tough.

It did help!! I'm not so much sure that the antenna is necessarily better than the mohu or CS2, but because of its low profile/size I was able to put it directly on a window sill so that was facing outwards. The CS2 and Mohu weren't really conducive to that, as I didn't want either of those those directly blocking the window (and the wife wasn't too keen on that either!).

Right now I have the wineguard facing east-northeast out of the window towards the building across the street from me. That building has a fairly unobstructed view, so I'm guessing I'm getting a good reflection or something off that building.

Needless to say, I'm getting FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, and KERA (the ones I care about) nice and clear. Overall I have fewer channels, but I didn't really care about the Korean and Mexican channels, so doesn't bother me.

Signal strength is only ~60% for them all, but its holding there and the signal quality is great. So hopefully this will last and be the solution...

It did help!! I'm not so much sure that the antenna is necessarily better than the mohu or CS2, but because of its low profile/size I was able to put it directly on a window sill so that was facing outwards. The CS2 and Mohu weren't really conducive to that, as I didn't want either of those those directly blocking the window (and the wife wasn't too keen on that either!).

Right now I have the wineguard facing east-northeast out of the window towards the building across the street from me. That building has a fairly unobstructed view, so I'm guessing I'm getting a good reflection or something off that building.

Needless to say, I'm getting FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, and KERA (the ones I care about) nice and clear. Overall I have fewer channels, but I didn't really care about the Korean and Mexican channels, so doesn't bother me.

Signal strength is only ~60% for them all, but its holding there and the signal quality is great. So hopefully this will last and be the solution...

UNFORTUNATELY, as Dallas heats up, the humidity changes, ........., the reflection patterns are likely to change dramatically. You've got your plate full on this one but we all wish you the best of luck!!!!!!!

UNFORTUNATELY, as Dallas heats up, the humidity changes, ........., the reflection patterns are likely to change dramatically. You've got your plate full on this one but we all wish you the best of luck!!!!!!!

Yeah, you're probably right, but for now I'm going to enjoy it!! :cool:

*** snip ***

Needless to say, I'm getting FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, and KERA (the ones I care about) nice and clear. Overall I have fewer channels, but I didn't really care about the Korean and Mexican channels, so doesn't bother me.

Signal strength is only ~60% for them all, but its holding there and the signal quality is great. So hopefully this will last and be the solution...

I'm not sure what kind of stations you're interested in, but we have several retro tv stations here too. HOT-TV (http://www.hottvchannel.com/schedule.html) (31.3), RTV (http://myretrotv.com/prog_schedules/RTV-National-Eastern.pdf) (31.4), Antenna TV (http://affiliate.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCGrid.do?aid=antennatv) (33.2) and soon ME-TV (http://metvnetwork.com/programs.php) (47.1?) all show stuff from the 50's and 60's. Highway Patrol, Sea Hunt, Bonanza, Burns & Allen, Jack Benny, McHale's Navy, Dick Van Dyke, etc., etc., etc. The ones on 31 are from a low power station in DeSoto, but I get them fine up here west of Denton. HOT-TV also shows on 26 and another station that slips my mind right now.

I'm not sure what kind of stations you're interested in, but we have several retro tv stations here too. HOT-TV (http://www.hottvchannel.com/schedule.html) (31.3), RTV (http://myretrotv.com/prog_schedules/RTV-National-Eastern.pdf) (31.4), Antenna TV (http://affiliate.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCGrid.do?aid=antennatv) (33.2) and soon ME-TV (http://metvnetwork.com/programs.php) (47.1?) all show stuff from the 50's and 60's. Highway Patrol, Sea Hunt, Bonanza, Burns & Allen, Jack Benny, McHale's Navy, Dick Van Dyke, etc., etc., etc. The ones on 31 are from a low power station in DeSoto, but I get them fine up here west of Denton. HOT-TV also shows on 26 and another station that slips my mind right now.

Don't forget KFWD/52 also airs classic TV :)

Oh, and just in case one of these works better than the others, Hot-TV is also shown on KODF/26 and KATA/50.4. All three are low-power broadcasts from Cedar Hill, though. The OP probably doesn't get them reliably, due to having to receive the signals indirectly; but he probably does get KDAF/33 and KTXD/47 reasonably well (although he may have deleted 47 since right now it's just infomercials, religious, and Spanish-language programming).

I'll post back when Me-TV starts to remind everyone to rescan and/or add 47.1 back to their channel lineup.

UNFORTUNATELY, as Dallas heats up, the humidity changes, ........., the reflection patterns are likely to change dramatically. You've got your plate full on this one but we all wish you the best of luck!!!!!!!

The big problem with hot weather is that a layer of hot air forms near any solid surface that faces the sun, which refracts signals arriving at a low angle (the mirage effect). Depending on what they're bouncing off of, this could make signals change throughout the day (and also evening as those surfaces cool down again), resulting in the dreaded "fading." Or he could be lucky and things won't be affected much. There's no way to know until it happens.

The big problem with hot weather is that a layer of hot air forms near any solid surface that faces the sun, which refracts signals arriving at a low angle (the mirage effect). Depending on what they're bouncing off of, this could make signals change throughout the day (and also evening as those surfaces cool down again), resulting in the dreaded "fading." Or he could be lucky and things won't be affected much. There's no way to know until it happens.

Yes, I should have included Mr. Refraction as well :)

I have a 3020 too and love it, even though it's overkill for my location. I was looking at a 3018 at Fry's but thought, "the 3020 is only $10 more; why not?"

It'd be a good choice for HateNewNHL's granddad, except since he doesn't need VHF-Lo frequencies, I'd go with the smaller (thus easier to keep up in bad weather) 2020 instead. I edited my response above to include the 2020 as an option.Since Dallas has hot days and very cold nights. (This winter is wacked out) My 3020 has been through it all and my other smaller antenna, the VU-90 shown it more than the 3020. 80 mph winds can move the dipoles back on the VU-90 and on 3020, I have more worries with that one than its dipoles moving back like for instance, when TS Hermine popped on through and gave us 12 straight hours of 60 mph winds. I was afraid of it blowing down with no guy wires. After that, we put up guy wires since it was high up.

Yeah, you're probably right, but for now I'm going to enjoy it!! :cool:

Warm day today. (Groundhogs is so stupid:p) Everything still working OK for you?

Hi All,

I haven't posted in awhile. I moved recently and what a difference it makes just moving a few miles. Where as I could get a signal using rabbit ears in the attic, this location is a different beast. I know that I will need to mount an antenna on the roof. I just wanted to get the groups opinion on my tvfool plot. Note, that the ALG is set a 25 ft.

Thanks,

Alan

RabbitEars lists a 34-76. I can get 34-2 & 32-3 but my Vip222k doesn't show a -76. Does anyone see -76? I would expect if you have one CH34 you would get all, unless a model just doesn't work beyond -9? And why would they go to a -76 when -1 is empty?

It's actually 34-768 but my site code doesn't handle display channels that long. :)

- Trip

It's actually 34-768 but my site code doesn't handle display channels that long. :)

- Trip I think 34-768 "audio only" went away about a week ago or so. Have not been able to tune it in since.

It wasn't audio only, it was actually MPEG-4 HD video.

- Trip

Everything I have that received 34.769 indicated Audio Only program. That's what I was going by.

Most TVs and tuners cannot decode MPEG-4, so that's not a surprise. You can see the MPEG-4 video noted in this TSReader data: http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/tx-dfw/26957-0_0.htm

- Trip

Just curious if ME-TV has signed on yet. I'm out of town right now and can't tell, but Neal Sabin told me a couple of weeks ago that March 1st was the sign in date. Should be on 47.1 if I'm not mistaken.

Just curious if ME-TV has signed on yet. I'm out of town right now and can't tell, but Neal Sabin told me a couple of weeks ago that March 1st was the sign in date. Should be on 47.1 if I'm not mistaken.

Still infomercials as of last night (3/1). I heard it's been pushed back to Monday (3/5) but I'll be checking throughout the weekend.

Did anyone notice the dropouts on KDFW HD D* LiL last night around midnight ? it was unwatchable. I am convinced that D* is pulling the signal off the air and being fed to D*. How am I convinced? I live out in the fringe areas and at night I have real diffuiculty getting 4, 8, 13, and 33. 8 and 13 being the worst. At the time of the dropouts I switched over to the OTA it was dropping out too. My antenna is the old school CM deep fringe antenna Don't know the model with a CM7777 preamp on a 40ft tower. My house sits on the tallest point on I-30 between Dallas and Little rock. When I'm up the tower, I can see into 3 counties. Hunt, Hopkins and Rains. I can see the Point TX cell tower, at night (if that counts).

Did anyone notice the dropouts on KDFW HD D* LiL last night around midnight ? it was unwatchable.

KDFW was on their backup transmitter until around 4 AM. On occasion, they do so on Sunday mornings.

Is anyone having trouble with Ch. 31 lately? I did a rescan yesterday and lost it all together on my main digital television. My other two, using converters, still showed it until I tried to do a rescan of one of them. That one now only shows 31.1 with a "no service" message.

The converter I left alone still has 31.4 (RTV) and will show a signal on 31.3, but says "no service". Signal strength is fairly good at around 70-73%. I usually don't have issues unless it falls below 60%.

After several hours of messing with it last night, I thought I'd check and see if anyone else was having problems with it too before pulling any more of my hair out.

Still infomercials as of last night (3/1). I heard it's been pushed back to Monday (3/5) but I'll be checking throughout the weekend.

*Sigh* Still infomercials as of Monday evening. Actually doesn't totally surprise me, but I wish they'd quit announcing dates before they're sure they can meet them.

Anyone heard a new ETA for Me-TV on KTXD/47?

*Sigh* Still infomercials as of Monday evening. Actually doesn't totally surprise me, but I wish they'd quit announcing dates before they're sure they can meet them.

Anyone heard a new ETA for Me-TV on KTXD/47?

I just heard from Neal Sabin of ME-TV, and he told me that the station here is experiencing some "internal equipment issues", and he has been told ME-TV should be on the air here tomorrow (Wed), but "as in the past, that may change".

BTW, all is right with Ch. 31 now. Just before noon, I went from getting 31.4 and no service on 31.3, to getting 31.3 and just black screen and buzzing from 31.4. At around noon, the signal went up and both 31.3 and 31.4 came in great, and scanned into my sets and converters.

I'm guessing they were doing repairs or maintenance on the transmitter.

i dont thank ktxd has any plains of going to metv they would be givieng up to much of a good thing they are makeing tons of money off of what they are doing right now thank about it ppl pay them to be on there ch why go to something where they are not paying

Good news everyone.... Sometime today, ME-TV signed onto Ch. 47.1 in Dallas. It wasn't on earlier today, but around 4pm I surfed over there and "The Rockford Files" playing with Me's logo in the corner of the screen. It looks like they finally solved their equipment problems.

Well I can do without the obnoxious 'MeTV' bug. I have to commend AntennaTV for not contaminating the image. Hopefully KTXD will submit their program info so it will show up in the TVGOS.

Are you getting a strange aspect ratio on 47? I'm watching "Rockford Files", and while it's not 4:3 like it should be, but it's not quite 16:9 either. It looks zoomed in (the tops of their heads look cut off). I've double checked the settings on my TV. Does it look that way to you too, or is it just me?

Are you getting a strange aspect ratio on 47? I'm watching "Rockford Files", and while it's not 4:3 like it should be, but it's not quite 16:9 either. It looks zoomed in (the tops of their heads look cut off). I've double checked the settings on my TV. Does it look that way to you too, or is it just me? I have narrow black bars on the sides, like an in-between ratio.
:confused:

i have the black on both sides to i hope they fix it and as far as the metv bug i like it :-) am glad we got metv !!!

I just noticed...47.1 has the strange aspect ratio and is showing it's 1080i HD, however 47.4 is also showing MeTV, and has the proper 4:3 aspect ratio and 480i SD.

I was told that they are still dealing with issues at the local level.

I was told that they are still dealing with issues at the local level.

There's some cropping on 47-1. Nevertheless, what I presume is a new exciter must be online. Their MER has never been better. It's an invariant >36.0 dB.

I never thought they'd go with general market programming like this. I hope it works out for London.

I just noticed...47.1 has the strange aspect ratio and is showing it's 1080i HD, however 47.4 is also showing MeTV, and has the proper 4:3 aspect ratio and 480i SD.

47.1 looks like an upconversion to me. Partially zoomed, so the top & bottom are cropped slightly, but the pillar box bars are smaller. Some of the commercials are 16:9 and you see a window box, but smaller than usual.

47.4 is straight SD, so the viewer has a choice. Nice touch.

PQ looks good on both.

Hello group. Am I the only one experiencing a choppy KXAS ch 5 on D* hd LiL? No storms, dish is nailed dead on. No signals under 85. I am even getting a 65 for the Houston spot beam The hockey game is awfully choppy. Borderline unwatchable. Been noticing this for a few days now. Only channel of the HD LiL's.

I noticed random stutters last night on KXAS during SNL. This was on Verizon FiOS so I switched over to OTA and also noticed it. I just sat on the hockey game for a few mins and it's fine for me on FiOS.

It looks like KTXD has adjusted the aspect ratio on 47.1 to 4:3.

Yep same here on KXAS 5, was doing it last night and this morning during their 6-7AM local news. OTA here.

Noticed the adjustment on 47.1 too. I can duplicate that same in-between aspect ratio with the narrow black side bars with my DTVPal set to "Partial" zoom on 4:3 video.

i stopped the recording on D* and picked up on WMC OTA and my reception is flawless. 98% according to WMC. IDK. Thanks for the reply. I thought L3 communications was handling the LiL HD fiber infrastructure. Why are these stations being picked up OTA and then xmitted to D*. Is it not possible to get a fiber feed from the affiliates? If so, why not?

I don't know about locally, but in another market, some stations offered D* a direct fiber feed and D* declined because they would have had to split the costs, and OTA was free.

Man, looks like KTXD is just a bit too weak. Granted I live 70 miles out and have my antenna in the attic, but I get KTXA, KDFI, KDAF, KXTX, KDFW, etc, all the full power stations, pretty much 24/7. But KTXD at only 600kW looks like it's going to cut out for me during the day and even at night just like all the LP stations do. It's a real bummer, because the programming (and picture quality) is so much better than either Antenna TV or RTV, and I only really pickup Antenna TV. Wish KTXD could be a bit more "full power" :D

Man, looks like KTXD is just a bit too weak. Granted I live 70 miles out and have my antenna in the attic, but I get KTXA, KDFI, KDAF, KXTX, KDFW, etc, all the full power stations, pretty much 24/7. But KTXD at only 600kW looks like it's going to cut out for me during the day and even at night just like all the LP stations do.

Now that KTXD/47 has become a mainstream station (with still some glitches from its "soft launch"), my dream would be for London to trade facilities with KAZD/55 on RF-39. The latter has one of the top four plants in the market based on square miles covered per RabbitEars.

The big coverage area of KAZD seems wasted since it appears that the programming on its streams appeals primarily to those living in the heart of the DMA, which RF-46 covers just fine.

I'm sure the novelty of MeTV will eventually wear off for me, but this weekend my "TSL" has been sky high watching programs like "Get Smart", "Mission Impossible", "The Untouchables" and a younger Peter Falk in "Columbo".

These are likely just reruns to most people. But as I worked my way through 4 years of college over a span of 11 years in the 70's, I was so busy juggling multiple jobs and classes that much of their fare is new to me.

Man, looks like KTXD is just a bit too weak. Granted I live 70 miles out and have my antenna in the attic, but I get KTXA, KDFI, KDAF, KXTX, KDFW, etc, all the full power stations, pretty much 24/7. But KTXD at only 600kW looks like it's going to cut out for me during the day and even at night just like all the LP stations do. It's a real bummer, because the programming (and picture quality) is so much better than either Antenna TV or RTV, and I only really pickup Antenna TV. Wish KTXD could be a bit more "full power" :D

From re_nelson:
I'm sure the novelty of MeTV will eventually wear off for me, but this weekend my "TSL" has been sky high watching programs like "Get Smart", "Mission Impossible", "The Untouchables" and a younger Peter Falk in "Columbo".

These are likely just reruns to most people. But as I worked my way through 4 years of college over a span of 11 years in the 70's, I was so busy juggling multiple jobs and classes that much of their fare is new to me.

I'm getting KTXD good out here between Denton and Decatur using nothing more than a Terk TV-42 (http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Technology-TV-42-Amplified-Antenna/dp/B00005T3A8) clipped onto my neutered satellite dish. I get most all the DFW stations good in fact, including the 31's. I'm in retro TV heaven now that MeTV has joined HOT (31.3), RTV (31.4), Antenna (33.2) and THIS (33.3). Even KFWD (52.1) has some good older stuff on it during the day (Andy Griffith, Dream of Jeannie, Addams Family, Rockford Files, etc.).

Speaking of KTXD (47.7)....it's currently 1:12am Monday morning, and 47.1 is showing a religious infomercial and 47.4 is showing MeTV. Hmmmm..

Working from home today, so I ganged a second DB8 up in the attic. I've actually been picking up KTXD all day today, but occasionally there are still blips and macro-blocking, so it's still right on the edge, plus it's cloudy today. A hot sunny day might still obliterate the signal for me. I may still need to play with my setup to see if I can get something more solid out of this configuration.

KTXD's website is up and their programming schedule is listed. There's a surprising amount of pseudo-church stuff on the weekends until 1pm, I really hope they're still just trying to line up replacement programming for this junk.

I don't know what their long term plans are, but over the last couple of days I've noticed that they run MeTV 24/7 on 47.4, and on 47.1 they run MeTv during the day and church stuff at night.

I ganged a second DB8 up in the attic. I've actually been picking up KTXD all day today, but occasionally there are still blips and macro-blocking, so it's still right on the edge, plus it's cloudy today. A hot sunny day might still obliterate the signal for me. I may still need to play with my setup to see if I can get something more solid out of this configuration.


How does KTXD compare to either KDTN/2 or KDTX/58? All three are diplexed through the same antenna. The latter two have an edge in power at 1,000 kW compared to KTXD's 600 kW, as you noted previously.

How does KTXD compare to either KDTN/2 or KDTX/58? All three are diplexed through the same antenna. The latter two have an edge in power at 1,000 kW compared to KTXD's 600 kW, as you noted previously.

Those stations come in clear, and although I don't really watch them, as far as I remember they have always had good reception when I flipped past them. KTXD has been pretty good the past couple of evenings with all the clouds and rain. By way of comparison both KDTN and KDTX are at 5/5 bars on my set right now, while KTXD is at 2/5, but ranges from 1 to 4. I still suspect it might cut out completely on a long, hot, clear day.

At first when I ganged the second antenna all LPTV reception and KTXD reception disappeared. I did a couple things, including reversing one of the baluns, angling the antennas slightly upward and actually butting both antennas up against each other, and it all returned. Last night and tonight I was even getting fairly strong LP reception of KODF and K31GL at 4/5 bars each.

I did stay up late watching Me-TV last night. When it switched to the religious stuff and I had to go to 47.4 to watch The Untouchables I noticed around midnight that 47.4 was cutting in and out for a short while even though the other substations were all solid. Go figure.

I've noticed the occasional freezes on MeTV also, but also noticed that my signal strength stayed the same. I think it's KTXD's MeTV feed in that is stuttering, not their OTA signal.

I've noticed the occasional freezes on MeTV also, but also noticed that my signal strength stayed the same. I think it's KTXD's MeTV feed in that is stuttering, not their OTA signal.

That's almost certainly the case. I have a signal analyzer off the splitter that feeds my television. When I noticed the glitches last Sunday night during "Columbo", I fired the Sencore up and kept an eye on it during the whole program. The signal itself never wavered nor did the bitstream even when the dropouts were occurring during the program.

By the way, I also noticed that the EPG data was up tonight for KTXD and was accurate, at least for "The Untouchables", the one program I had a chance to catch tonight.

Yeah, EPG was showing correctly last night for The Odd Couple and this morning for Perry Mason.

KTXD needs to check their audio levels. Watching Perry Mason just now, an Amica insurance ad came on and blasted me very loud. Adjusted volume down, program resumes and so low have to turn up volume. Same with a "Blue World Pools" ad that just came on and their ID at the top of the hour. Seems all the locally inserted stuff is way too loud. They are not complying with the CALM act that's for sure!

I agree, KTXD has some of the loudest commercial interruptions I've ever heard. I can hear the bellowing commercial in the next room or across the house, but not the program itself at the volume I normal view at, so it's pretty ridiculous.

Hi:

I have directv and use my zip in the North Fort Worth area : 76262.

I have a OTA and a AM-21 for rainy days.

I got a new receiver and remembered that I can program a secondary ZIP.
My thinking is that both FW and Dallas us the same Network feeds.

Does anyone know if using a secondary ZIP is even worth while and what would it be as to program channels and signal strength ?

Greg

So last night I couldn't watch The Untouchables because 47.4 was a blank, and tonight they're airing one of the religious spirit water hucksters on both 47.1 AND 47.4. Even KTXD's own web site claims they do air The Untouchables weeknights at 11:30, so maybe they're moving the religious crapola over to 47.4 and bringing Me-TV 24/7 to 47.1? I hope?

So last night I couldn't watch The Untouchables because 47.4 was a blank, and tonight they're airing one of the religious spirit water hucksters on both 47.1 AND 47.4. Even KTXD's own web site claims they do air The Untouchables weeknights at 11:30, so maybe they're moving the religious crapola over to 47.4 and bringing Me-TV 24/7 to 47.1? I hope?The people with SDTV's and converter boxes who watch KTXD are gonna be mad that another Godcaster has come to a subchannel which broadcasted MeTV in their format.

I think that 47 is still just sorting out the gremlins in the system. If they temporarily lost the MeTV feed, they had to put something on 47.4

It wasn't a temporary loss of the feed, it was deliberate, it occurred right at the time the programs change, and it happened again last night -- no Untouchables on either channel. Still hoping the shows will be back on one channel or the other, but if KTXD is going to persist in airing so much of this contemptible trash instead of regular Me-TV programming then DFW is going to end up with a rather sucktastic affiliate. Their morning schedules right now, especially on the weekends, are just ridiculous.

And how can anybody not notice the distracting ginormous blue pillar boxes on 47.1 today, complete with KTXD-TV logo splattered across them on both sides of the program. Real classy :rolleyes:. I don't see how this can possibly be chalked up to technical issues. I like Me-TV network programming a lot, and I'm willing to be patient while they work through the bugs -- it's only free TV we're talking about here. But if some of this stuff doesn't change I'm definitely not going to be a big fan of KTXD as a station.

And how can anybody not notice the distracting ginormous blue pillar boxes on 47.1 today, complete with KTXD-TV logo splattered across them on both sides of the program. Real classy :rolleyes:. I don't see how this can possibly be chalked up to technical issues. I like Me-TV network programming a lot, and I'm willing to be patient while they work through the bugs -- it's only free TV we're talking about here. But if some of this stuff doesn't change I'm definitely not going to be a big fan of KTXD as a station.

Originally KTXD was zooming the image slightly, which cropped a bit off the top & bottom of the screen but reduced the size of the pillars by about half. Apparently they're no longer zooming the image at all, so the pillars are now the typical size.

Given that pillar size, I guess they decided logos look better than solid black, but they take up extra bandwidth, which seems to have come out of the SD feed on 47.4. The latter seems to be down to 10-15 fps now.:eek:

I'm hoping the overnight religion is only temporary, but if they aren't airing MeTV on 47.4 while religion is on 47.1, than what's the point? They need to put it back like it was, or else drop 47.4.

They need to put MeTV on 47.1 24/7. 15 FPS on 47.4 fast enough for selling religious snake oil.

UPDATE: As of 11am CDT, it looks like KTXD has taken care of the slow frame rate on 47.4. Picture looks good, in fact. The blue color bars are still on 47.1, but that's a matter of personal taste. They're a little distracting, but I don't have a problem with them.

I wrote Neal Sabin, head of MeTV, last night (we've had an email relationship for a little over a year now) and told him about the problems with KTXD. Maybe he kicked a little butt, Chicago style, and got them to fix it. BTW, he's a great guy and a long time fixture in the Chicago television industry. He's got a genuine love for retro television, and it shows.

UPDATE: As of 11am CDT, it looks like KTXD has taken care of the slow frame rate on 47.4. Picture looks good, in fact. The blue color bars are still on 47.1, but that's a matter of personal taste.

I don't have much of a problem with them either. If the PQ on 47.4 is fixed, you can always switch over if they bug you. All of Me-TV's shows were originally recorded for SD (4:3 aspect) anyway.

Any word on getting at least some of Me-TV's overnight/AM schedule back on at least 47.4? I really wanted to Get Smart ;) and I know my wife would love The Brady Bunch.

I mentioned it to Mr. Sabin, but I don't know how much influence a network has over a local affiliate and their programming. I'll let you know if/when I hear something, or just check back around midnight. I still think that KTXD is in an ongoing process of sorting things out.

I just caught it tonight while doing a re-scan. The TS Reader ought to be posted on RabbitEars before too long.

My 47 channels are locked (as if paused) as of 3:30.

Must be around the corner. We have a signal but the screen is dark. Hopefully next up is Create. Beyond that The Country Network may be the only thing left that's a good Dallas fit, but they keep inventing networks :)

Must be around the corner. We have a signal but the screen is dark.

This seems to be dependant on the receiver. I have one receiver (CM-7000) that behaves like yours. Something is there and there is even EPG data, but no picture or sound. On the other hand a DTVPal displays this channel just fine.

The PCR PID is defined differently in the PMT and the TVCT. I can imagine some tuners choking on that.

EDIT: Correction, not just the PCR PID. All the PIDs are wrong in the TVCT.

- Trip

My Vizio HDTV and my two Dish DTV Pals for my old analog sets all get Bounce (27.2) just fine.

This seems to be dependant on the receiver. I have one receiver (CM-7000) that behaves like yours. Something is there and there is even EPG data, but no picture or sound. On the other hand a DTVPal displays this channel just fine.

I have an (original) CM-7000 and an Apex DT250, and both choke on 27.2.

My Vizio HDTV and my two Dish DTV Pals for my old analog sets all get Bounce (27.2) just fine.

Echostar products (both the DTVPal and, ironically, the CM-7000Pal DVR) work fine, as do the Funai-made (Philco & Magnavox brands) converter boxes and an LG HDTV I own. Guess I just got unlucky to own two different "bad" boxes, but the DTV spec is so complex glitches like this are bound to happen.

I mentioned it to Mr. Sabin, but I don't know how much influence a network has over a local affiliate and their programming. I'll let you know if/when I hear something, or just check back around midnight. I still think that KTXD is in an ongoing process of sorting things out.

They are soliciting for an anchor/producer for a new entertainment news/talk show they're apparently creating - plus there's a Crook&Chase announcement - so I'd say things aren't set in stone just yet. Regardless, even this 60/40 "hybrid" format is a big improvement over the old format. I'm just greedy :D

OTOH, after a day of good PQ, 47.4 went back to 15 fps over the weekend. It's no big deal for us over-the-air viewers since we can always tune a converter box to 47.1, but KTXD still needs to fix this for good. I understand some cable providers (Fios?) are picking up the SD version of Me-TV from 47.4, and they won't enjoy that jerky picture.

They are soliciting for an anchor/producer for a new entertainment news/talk show they're apparently creating - plus there's a Crook&Chase announcement - so I'd say things aren't set in stone just yet. Regardless, even this 60/40 "hybrid" format is a big improvement over the old format. I'm just greedy :D

OTOH, after a day of good PQ, 47.4 went back to 15 fps over the weekend. It's no big deal for us over-the-air viewers since we can always tune a converter box to 47.1, but KTXD still needs to fix this for good. I understand some cable providers (Fios?) are picking up the SD version of Me-TV from 47.4, and they won't enjoy that jerky picture.

other OTA news breaking!

KAZD is going HD finally! according to the TWC legal notice posted today as they are picking it up might have a deal with TWC to add the channel that might something to do with them adding KAZD to the TWC Greenville TX system late last year which is part of the Dallas metro systems but an off shoot of it with less bandwidth 750MHz instead of 860MHz like Dallas and surronding cities and they have a different channel lineup sort of.

wonder if KAZD will let other OTA channels pick up some of the subnets or are they going to be HD on cable only?

The legal notice can be found in the dallas morning news and at : http://shopping.dallasnews.com/ROP/Ads.aspx?advid=449976&adid=12718828

They must have done something at 27.2 as I can now see Bounce (still couldn't see it this morning). For the record I have DISH Vip222k with the OTD card.

Interesting note, I scanned for bounce on the TV itself and during the scan I pulled in KVUE 24 Austin Saturday morning then lost it almost as soon as I had it.

other OTA news breaking!

KAZD is going HD finally! according to the TWC legal notice posted today as they are picking it up might have a deal with TWC to add the channel that might something to do with them adding KAZD to the TWC Greenville TX system late last year which is part of the Dallas metro systems but an off shoot of it with less bandwidth 750MHz instead of 860MHz like Dallas and surronding cities and they have a different channel lineup sort of.

wonder if KAZD will let other OTA channels pick up some of the subnets or are they going to be HD on cable only?

The legal notice can be found in the dallas morning news and at : http://shopping.dallasnews.com/ROP/Ads.aspx?advid=449976&adid=12718828

Of KAZD's six current subchannels, three (55.3-55.5) are currently airing only infomercials. I'd expect those to disappear, leaving KAZD with a more typical lineup of one HD channel (Azteca) and two SD subchannels (VietFace and Biz TV).

OTOH, KAZD has had trouble shaking the infomercial habit before, so it wouldn't surprise me if one infomercial channel remains in the lineup :rolleyes:

Anyone in the area with DirecTV have the AM21 addon ATSC tuner? It's my understanding that it does not scan for channels so I'm curious as to what the OTA line-up looks like. My folks live out in Lavon and have an older rear projection 16:9 TV without a built in ATSC tuner. My father misses access to 8.2 for WX. They recently switched from Dish and have an attic mounted antenna that worked great on the 722 they had. I'm thinking about picking an AM21 up for them. Thanks in advance.

They must have done something at 27.2 as I can now see Bounce (still couldn't see it this morning).

Yes, new data this afternoon shows the TVCT and the PMT now agree.

- Trip

I have an (original) CM-7000 and an Apex DT250, and both choke on 27.2.

Yes, new data this afternoon shows the TVCT and the PMT now agree.

- Trip

Didn't get a chance to check the CM-7000 last night, but the DT250 now receives Bounce on 27-2 just fine.

Edit: The CM-7000 is receiving Bounce too. Didn't even need to rescan!

KTXD has now shown up on Suddenstink cable up here in the Gainesville area. I didn't expect that, but maybe with enough of these carriage fees they can hopefully drop the bogus religious junk.

Tomorrow Me-TV starts a new classic animation block for Saturday mornings. But DFW viewers won't get to watch/DVR it, we get more phony religious crud, which they actually started proudly running promos for this week. Being a classic cartoon fan, that alone is reason enough for me to say, KTXD just plain sucks.

Actually it's not just that, it's that we were told Me-TV was coming, then find out that we get the "privilege" of receiving only about half of Me-TV's schedule. People don't tune into TV Land or Antenna TV expecting to put up with this kind of junk that clearly doesn't even belong on this station. :mad:

Tomorrow Me-TV starts a new classic animation block for Saturday mornings. But DFW viewers won't get to watch/DVR it... Got a backyard? Set up a FTA satellite dish and receiver. You can bypass KTXD and have it 24/7.

"MeTV is also available nationwide on free-to-air C-band satellite via AMC-1 in DVB-S format."

I did a rescan and got hit the 90 mark on the channel count. With 3 channels coming in from Sherman without tropo conditions. Before, I got 87 with KMPX's new additions. I guess KXII did something, or I did something to my antenna. Thought I give some insight on my current channel situation.

... KTXD just plain sucks.

Actually it's not just that, it's that we were told Me-TV was coming, then find out that we get the "privilege" of receiving only about half of Me-TV's schedule. People don't tune into TV Land or Antenna TV expecting to put up with this kind of junk that clearly doesn't even belong on this station. :mad:

"Sucks" may be too strong but I share the disappointment. What's on KTXD now is better than what was on it before, and I didn't expect KTXD to be all Me-TV all the time (and there are hints of a few local & regional shows to come), but they badly violated viewers' expectations by giving us only about 60% of the Me-TV schedule. Maybe they were forced to keep the religious shows, but many are also on other channels, and I can't think of any good reason to air infomercials instead of Me-TV programming even late at night. Yes, I know infomercials are guaranteed revenue, but this is the DVR era, after all.

What's worst is that, for a time, they actually had it right, with the full schedule on 47.4 & a working EPG (not only on Me-TV but also on Mexicanal on 47.3). Then they jerked the full schedule off 47.4 and made it a clone of 47.1, screwed up the frame rate on 47.4 so it's unwatchable in any event, then fixed it for about a day, then broke it again and seemingly lost interest:eek:

Even the EPG hasn't been working for over a week! Edit: As of Monday evening the EPG is working again :) Still needs to go longer than 12 hours, though.

Got a backyard? Set up a FTA satellite dish and receiver. You can bypass KTXD and have it 24/7.

"MeTV is also available nationwide on free-to-air C-band satellite via AMC-1 in DVB-S format."

A big, expensive C-band satellite dish/rotor in the backyard isn't for everyone, but it could be a good alternative for those with the cash (and a nice backyard fence;)). I understand one can also get PBS subchannels that KERA doesn't carry, like Create. Of course there's no guarantee that Me-TV will always remain free, but there's enough variety to make FTA satellite worth considering.

Of course there's no guarantee that Me-TV will always remain free, but there's enough variety to make FTA satellite worth considering.

Or...just move to Chicago! :) MeTV is seemingly everywhere OTA there. By the way, it was my very first experience with DTV and multicasting back in 2008.

Signs of progress: KTXD has fixed 47.4 so it's watchable again (let's hope it sticks this time) - and they're keeping the EPG up-to-date.

Edit: 47.4 still looks OK after a week, so maybe the fix is permanent this time. Did want to add that it seems a bit "grainy" compared to 47.1, even though Me-TV is standard def., almost as if it's been converted to analog and back to digital again. Still, it looks way better than it did a week ago.

Things get stranger and stranger in the world of DFW OTA TV. I was tuning around tonight, and found that my Vizio TV automatically added 4 new subchannels on 29 (a channel I normally have blocked out). They are Spanish RADIO stations!

29.10 KZZA-FM
29.11 KTCY-FM
29.12 KNOR-FM
29.13 KBOC-FM

All the channels say "audio program, no video" on the screen.

I was tuning around tonight, and found that my Vizio TV automatically added 4 new subchannels on 29 (a channel I normally have blocked out). They are Spanish RADIO stations!

29.10 KZZA-FM
29.11 KTCY-FM
29.12 KNOR-FM
29.13 KBOC-FM


Liberman Broadcasting owns all of the above radio stations as well as KMPX/29. I think they just added them for convenience of channel-surfers, who might hear something they like on one of the radio stations even if nothing on TV appeals to them. Saves having to switch off the TV and switch on the radio (not to mention most radios are lousy for channel-surfing).

I think people across DFW can get those stations fairly easily and that's why I agree that Liberman just added them for the common channel surfer. It really adds up in the end for me, 90 channel barrier broken after this addition.

Signs of progress: KTXD has fixed 47.4 so it's watchable again (let's hope it sticks this time) - and they're keeping the EPG up-to-date.

Edit: 47.4 still looks OK after a week, so maybe the fix is permanent this time. Did want to add that it seems a bit "grainy" compared to 47.1, even though Me-TV is standard def.... Still, it looks way better than it did a week ago.

Seems KTXD is running Me-TV overnight on 47.4 again :D while the religion & infomercials play on 47.1. (47.4's EPG shows the 47.1 schedule, but you can get the correct schedule from Me-TV's website.)

I'm beginning to think they only have two SD video sources for 47.4. One is the Me-TV feed from their satellite receiver, which they're using now; the other is a converter box tuned to 47.1 and set to "zoom" to crop the pillarbox logos. When they use that, the D/A/D conversions produce the crappy video that looks like 15 fps.

If KTXD wants the religion & infomercials on 47.4, they probably need a timer to switch the video source at the appropriate times. But I'm hoping they just leave it as is, so I can DVR "Get Smart" and classic cartoon fans can watch He-Man and She-Ra on 47.4 this weekend.

Does anyone use Windows Media Center? If you do, when rescanning, does 27.2 show up, and does it have guide data?

I believe I am having a problem with my OTA card on my VIP222K so I thought I'd delete & rescan. In doing so my unit logged the following:
68-44 TeleFo
68-45 CineMe
68-46 Pasion
68-100 Airbox
68-101 Starz
68-200 Airbox
68-209 GolTV

Anyone else get the above? The channels are logged but the screen is black so does anyone know what these are?

As for the potential issue with my OTA card, even though I have a strong signal: 70's, 80's & 90's, the signal seems to drop way off for a brief second causing a Lost Signal screen message, but it quickly comes back. 47.1 is the ugly one. For some reason, while watching the channel, it shuts off my VIP222K. After a couple of minutes the unit turns on again starts the 5 min download process (this never happens on any other channel, not even 47.4). If I disconnect the cable and connect direct to the TV or my DigitalStream converter box, I have no issues.

Thoughts???

Anyone else get the above? The channels are logged but the screen is black so does anyone know what these are?

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=airbox

I believe I am having a problem with my OTA card on my VIP222K so I thought I'd delete & rescan. In doing so my unit logged the following:
68-44 TeleFo
68-45 CineMe
68-46 Pasion
68-100 Airbox
68-101 Starz
68-200 Airbox
68-209 GolTV

Anyone else get the above? The channels are logged but the screen is black so does anyone know what these are?

Those are encrypted MPEG-4 Hispanic channels for the Airbox pay-tv service. There's a discussion of this service here. (http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=210401.0)

As for the potential issue with my OTA card, even though I have a strong signal: 70's, 80's & 90's, the signal seems to drop way off for a brief second causing a Lost Signal screen message, but it quickly comes back. 47.1 is the ugly one. For some reason, while watching the channel, it shuts off my VIP222K. After a couple of minutes the unit turns on again starts the 5 min download process (this never happens on any other channel, not even 47.4). If I disconnect the cable and connect direct to the TV or my DigitalStream converter box, I have no issues.

Thoughts???

I'm guessing this started, or at least got worse, about a month ago. Sounds like multipath, but I have no idea why it'd affect 47.1 but not 47.4.

DTV receivers have improved a great deal over the last several years. I'd guess that the OTA card for the VIP222K uses an older chipset that can't cancel multipath as effectively as the receivers in your TV and converter box. (This is particularly likely if the direct signal path from Cedar Hill to your antenna is blocked, so that the strongest signal you're receiving is actually a reflection.)

If I'm right, a more directional (higher gain) antenna would likely help when using the VIP222K, even though your signal strength is already good. Sounds like your current antenna is fine for the TV & converter box, though.

I sure hope the restored programming on 47.4 isn't just another temporary "issue", but I appreciate it while it's here. I even DVR'd Gumby, lol.

Just noticing the pillar boxes on 47.1 have turned black and white -- MUCH less distracting and annoying.

I bought one of these portable TVs....
1. If you want to purchase a mobile hybrid TV in the US, this is the site:

http://getmyelectronics.com/collections/mobile-tv

They are shipping.

2. The cheapest model does have a standard external antenna input.

... primarily to use as a troubleshooting tool when I get in the attic or on the roof. Much more convenient than the battery-operated converter box+old B&W TV I used to use. But since it receives not only ATSC but also the mobile/handheld TV signals, I figured I'd report the M/H broadcasts I found in DFW. There are three:
4.1: simulcast of ATSC 4.1 (Fox)
8.2: weather - but not a simulcast of Accuweather on ATSC 8.2! It's a plain-vanilla radar image with the local NWS radio (KEC56?) for audio
68.1: simulcast of ATSC 68.2 (Qubo)

I thought KXAS was also broadcasting M/H, but I didn't pick up any M/H signals from them.

KXAS is encrypted.

- Trip

I sure hope the restored programming on 47.4 isn't just another temporary "issue", but I appreciate it while it's here. I even DVR'd Gumby, lol.

Just noticing the pillar boxes on 47.1 have turned black and white -- MUCH less distracting and annoying.

The ads on .1 and .4 are different too. .1 has the local ads for KTXD, including promos for the religious shows. .4 apparently has the generic ads from the MeTV feed.

KXAS is encrypted.

- Trip

A subscription channel? Do you know what it is?

http://www.dyle.tv/

Should just be a straight simulcast of NBC on 5-1.

- Trip

http://www.dyle.tv/

Should just be a straight simulcast of NBC on 5-1.

- Trip

Seems pointless - these portable TVs receive ATSC signals too :confused:

Of course that wouldn't work in, say, a moving vehicle; but I don't know too many folks who'd subscribe just so their kids could watch 5-1 in the car - especially since they already get Qubo for free ;)

Edit: After reviewing the Dyle site, it looks like you don't need to subscribe; apparently the encryption is only there to force you to use a Dyle device. But my point remains: unless you're targeting the rear car seat demo, why not just stick with ATSC and the portable device of your choice?

I won't be surprised if all the Mobile DTV currently available in Dallas winds up encrypted.

And the tuners in cell phones will not receive regular ATSC. I played with two of them a few months ago, M/H only.

- Trip

I won't be surprised if all the Mobile DTV currently available in Dallas winds up encrypted.

And the tuners in cell phones will not receive regular ATSC. I played with two of them a few months ago, M/H only.

- Trip

Ahh, cell phones. I hadn't seen cell phones with M/H tuners yet. (The Dyle site just says check back later.) I have heard of some with MediaFLO tuners, though, so I'm not too surprised.

A little experimentation with my new toy shows that M/H works with a weaker signal than straight ATSC requires - important for devices with tiny antennas. And of course, you have to sit or stand still for straight ATSC, while you can walk, run, or ride with M/H. So I guess portable device manufacturers will be willing to cough up a fee to Dyle to decrypt M/H, even if they could get the same content for free on the ATSC side.

But ATSC has a much bigger selection of channels. So I wouldn't be surprised if we soon see dual ATSC-M/H phones. As technology advances, that's almost inevitable. I already have a GPS with an ATSC tuner. A silly combination of technologies, granted, but it's only slightly larger than my BlackBerry.

What's the deal with KXAS today? OTA and D*LiL have been breaking up all day? Noticed it during the hockey game and tonight during Harry's Law. D* for the game and OTA for Harry.

Thanks

I won't be surprised if all the Mobile DTV currently available in Dallas winds up encrypted.

And the tuners in cell phones will not receive regular ATSC. I played with two of them a few months ago, M/H only.

- Trip

While in San Antonio with my Haier 7in DTV, I hooked it to my ham triband /vertical antenna (2/220/440) and reception of DTV sucked...if I could scan a channel one time, next time 5 miles down the road, it was lost...
Cant see how MDTV will work (oh wait, didnt they shut down?).

While in San Antonio with my Haier 7in DTV, I hooked it to my ham triband /vertical antenna (2/220/440) and reception of DTV sucked...if I could scan a channel one time, next time 5 miles down the road, it was lost...
Cant see how MDTV will work (oh wait, didnt they shut down?).

Is the MDTV signal horizontally polarized?

Is the MDTV signal horizontally polarized?

It's the same as the ASTSC signal which, in the US is always horizontal but frequently has a vertical component to the signal. You have to look up each individual station individually to see what they're doing.

Is the MDTV signal horizontally polarized?

Well, it's not actually a separate frequency; it's basically a data stream embedded in the ATSC signal with a bunch of extra error correction to compensate for all the reception errors that occur when moving.

Anyhow, here in DFW, KDFW/4 is elliptical, while KXAS/5, WFAA/8, and KPXD/68 are horizontal. If you're trying to pick TV up with a vertical antenna you probably won't have much luck outside of KDFW/4. Owners of mobile TVs are advised to extend their teeny whip antennas sideways for best results. (And if possible, hook up a real antenna when scanning. That way all stations will be in the TV's memory, whether or not you can receive them at any given location.)

Does anyone use Windows Media Center? If you do, when rescanning, does 27.2 show up, and does it have guide data?

I run Vista Media Center, and sub-channels are not supported at all. (Without a whole lot of work that is not really suppported.)

Now I haven't tried by new Windows 7 PC with Media Center - mostly because it in the kitchen on wi-fi and hence would not work all that well with my HD Homerun... But maybe I can get a ethernet over to it temporarily to test... Would be worth my while since I can see how Windows 7 handles sub-channels...

I run Vista Media Center, and sub-channels are not supported at all. (Without a whole lot of work....)

:eek:

I know you can add subchannels manually, but I can't imagine anyone other than Micro$oft getting away with a DTV product that didn't handle subchannels automatically. Surely they fixed this glaring omission in Windows 7 :confused:

My WMC7 setup missed some subs but they were all on LP's, it got everything on the big guys and most of the LP's with no fuss. I added 27.2 manually because it was lit up after I got the dust settled on my setup.

Good to hear. Sounds like WMC7 got it right. It still astounds me that M$ ever released a product without full subchannel support, though. What were they thinking?

Now we got 47 lined out, when will WFAA get their CP completed and get some more "fire in the wire". Wow, watching DWTS from last night recorded OTA and it's a disaster. John thats EM23bd for me. Tall hill, tall tower here. My info and pic are current on QRZ. tks es 73 de w5nl