well the only thing i can think then is my set is defective, since the default mid numbers make the image wayyyy wayy too big for the raster

Are you certain your MID settings are at the factory defaults? Are you sure that you or nobody else might have gone in and changed them at some point? Try to get your hands on the Service Manual for your model, so you can confirm that the MID settings on your TV are indeed the factory default settings.

Are you certain your MID settings are at the factory defaults? Are you sure that you or nobody else might have gone in and changed them at some point? Try to get your hands on the Service Manual for your model, so you can confirm that the MID settings on your TV are indeed the factory default settings.I agree. It's certainly very likely that what the service manual shows as "firmware default" (e.g. 31 for many settings which really need to be quite different for good picture) have already been pre-adjusted through bench tests and setup at the factory before shipping and never actually look that way when your TV first comes out of the box.

Your initial settings (if you wrote them down the first time you got into the service menu) should probably be considered the true "defaults".

So, if the image layer is much larger than the raster, you're pretty much stuck with making some changes in MID.


Can't say I've run into such an issue. Besides perhaps, potential mis-adjustment of MID size values, I wonder what other issues might cause such a problem?

why not just see what these do for you when selected to INPUT5/6 while watching 1080i.


Maybe If I get bored someday and run out of things to do I'll look at it a bit ... But, otherwise, if you really want to know "Why Not" - I do not answer this to be "contrary", only to answer the question ... :

#1). Because I don't need to. Without addressing the sampling/resolution issues involved, or delving into the "image processing" and or"EE"/VM settings I've adjusted to preferred settings for all used inputs/scan rates/source "devices"/pic modes/etc in 2170P3+MIDE and any potential relevance that may be involved -- i.e. potiental need to perhaps adjust those as well if I mess around with the MID size settings -- :

*I* know What would result (regarding MID vertical/horizontal size changes, specifically) would be less overscan, and a slightly smaller image size, neither of which is necessarily desireable for me -- My current settings acheive overscan of approximetely 4% from all input sources/scan rates, which *is* generally desireable+appropriate for my purposes.

#2). I'm not sure I can fully express this properly, at present, so I apologize if this isn't very clear -- however, I utilize my set to view high quality, Hi-resolution 1080i and 720p HD broadcasts via Over-the-air broadcast signals(i.e. antenna) via this sets internal ATSC "tuner", as well as transport streams captured or in otherwords "recorded" from those same sources(via firewire from the 960's internal tuner specifically) but decoded/played back via a "PC setup" via KD34XBR960 V6 component input at 1080i. I also sometimes use the MS viewer with high resolution images scanned from film negatives. For various reasons, to put it one way, Since seeing the "nuances" of the differences in quality/etc. from these program sources is an importance for me, and perhaps most importantly, since in my circumstances it is *not necessary* in my case to do so for any reason, I'm just not going to want to "add" another potential variable regarding those "nuances" by adjusting the MID settings in a way such that their image quality *could* potentially be compromised -- I hope that makes some sense ...

As I already noted, however I already have adjusted MID2/3 vertical/Horizontal "posistion" controls, as necessary involving "scan rate/input source device specific" centering issues -- for the scan rates/input signals involved. Which luckily, and partly by my "design"(concering HPOS/VPOS settings/etc) did not involve my "input sources" of 720p or 1080i signals. Although I *may* change some of them back to the default values and live with "slightly off center pic" in some cases, as although it is a very *subtle* thing(and in fact I just may be "seeing things"), I think after living with it for a while it may be somewhat possible I may have(noticably, but barely so) ended up compromising image quality a bit by adjusting those values for 480p from DVD via V5 component. Although, at the time I made the adjustments, I *thought* I looked closely enough at such patterns as the AVIA resolution patters/small text in various test patterns/etc and I recall I didn't seem to *notice* a problem with it ...


VPOS 0-63 28 (26) <-- 2170D-1
VSIZ 0-63 32 (39)

HSIZ 0-63 41 (50)


In case you are interested, Here are my set's adjusted values for those (factory set defaults in partenteses) -- This is a KD34XBR960, Manufactuered at the PA plant in Jan 2005. And no, folks can't just "plug these in" to their set and expect "proper" results with the factory MID values/etc., as for instance, noted in an earlier post there are other settings in 2170D1/2 which have an effect on H/V size as well :

VSIZ=26 (31)
VPOS=26 (26)

HSIZ = 40 (45) Everything except Widezoom
HSIZ = 46 (51) Widezoom

HPOS = 27 (28) For everything except HD/1080i.
HPOS = 27 (31) For 1080i Full.

Quite frankly, I do not think I've lost any resolution whatsoever by what I've done. In fact if anything the fact that the overscan has been reduced (by increasing the horizontal and vertical sizes, thereby "shrinking" the effective size of whatever is seen onscreen since a somewhat larger total image area is being presented in the same size 34" screen rectangle) actually makes things much sharper and crisper, and more filmlike in its appearance.

Now, contrary to my last post ... I must say I do find your observation here intriguing -- especially the latter part of it, and Glen's subsequent comments on the matter, enough so that perhaps when I get a chance(which is probably going to be a while), I might try some *careful* experiments with it.

Hopefully, perhaps KenTech will have some additional comments to contribute on this issue of MID H/V size/posistion adjustments and our recent discussion of it as well ...

[update] -- There is a particularly good discussion of interest of this and/or "related" issues between KenTech, Oliver Deplace and others which can be found roughly between post #2005 and #2016 :

Here are three posts from those I find particularly informative and/or interesting :

Post #2005 :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8377877&&#post8377877


Post #2014 :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8390692&&#post8390692

Post 2016 :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8392350&&#post8392350

Hmm, on second thought after reading those again(particularly #2016), I think I'll stick with Ken's recommendations/findings on this one, as it doesn't seem to me I need to spend any more time on this ....

It's certainly very likely that what the service manual shows as "firmware default" (e.g. 31 for many settings which really need to be quite different for good picture) have already been pre-adjusted through bench tests and setup at the factory before shipping and never actually look that way when your TV first comes out of the box.

Your initial settings (if you wrote them down the first time you got into the service menu) should probably be considered the true "defaults".

While that is true for many settings(such as the "Deflection" settings), it's not true for other settings, such as the MID Picture size/posistioning settings. And, just as Ken has said and for the reasons he menitoned, (at least on XBR960/XS955) the set's "defaults" for MID Picture size/posistioning should probably be the same as the service code listing for your model set, they are not adjusted by factory personel -- The actual set defaults for those MID controls certianly match the service Manual's "Service Mode code chart" listing on my set, unlike some other SM settings. Although of course it is important to note whether or not that is the case (and write down the "actual" set defaults) before making any adjustments ...

See post #2005 and the service code chart for more details :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8377877&&#post8377877

I've tried to play with a few settings in the service menu but have yet to find the one that corrects a tilt of the picture, both top and bottom of my 30XS955. The tilt is only obvious during scenes with a running ticker - the ticker is about 1/4" higher on one side than the other. I've lived with it for a year but it's starting to annoy me during football games.

So which setting tilts the picture?

So which setting tilts the picture?In the XBR960's service menu, 2170D-1 item NSCO is for rotation/tilt.

In the service menu, it talks about the 1080i HD Mode Adjustment.
It says adjust the geometry similar to full drc mode
vertical size is 11.7 + o.1 sq. and horizontal size is 15.6 + 0.1 sq., if monoscope signal is avail.....Other wise set the vertical size to 91.0 + 0.6% and horizontal size as 91.0 + 0.6% scan.

What is the scale of those numbers?

In the XBR960's service menu, 2170D-1 item NSCO is for rotation/tilt.
Thanks.

In the service menu, it talks about the 1080i HD Mode Adjustment.
It says adjust the geometry similar to full drc mode
vertical size is 11.7 + o.1 sq. and horizontal size is 15.6 + 0.1 sq., if monoscope signal is avail.....Other wise set the vertical size to 91.0 + 0.6% and horizontal size as 91.0 + 0.6% scan.

What is the scale of those numbers?

Perhaps This may be of some use. I didn't find any detailed explanation of the "scale" involved which they are referring to via a search through the portions of the XBR960 service manual I have available (geometry pages/tube replacement sections/etc), but In section 4-1 (Picture Size and Geometry Adjustments) of the KD-34XBR2 Service Manual, page 15 it says :

:quote

:REQUIRED EQUIPMENT:
NTSC generator with monoscope pattern and cross-hatch pattern. (In lieu of the monoscope pattern, the cross-hatch pattern will suffice. However,
to correctly size the picture you must be able to calculate what percentage of the generator’s full pattern is being displayed due to the over-scanning
of the CRT.)

:end quote


Then, in the 1st upper right diagram on pg 15, it details a graphic of a monoscope pattern, and indicates (for a XBR2) a full mode (NTSC) adjustment of vertical height of "11.6" refers to 11.6 BOXES(vertically) of the Monoscope pattern they are referring to(basically looks like a crosshatch pattern in the diagram), which they also specify refers to 90% of the Height of a cross hatch pattern.

So, in the case for the 1080i full mode adjustments from XBR960/etc. Service Manual you refer to(section 2-9.2), I believe they are probably talking about 11.7 vertical "BOXES" in the monoscope pattern (+ or - .1 "square"(or "box"), by 15.6 Boxes Horizontally (+ or - .1 "square", or 1/10th the area of each "square") .....

Or, 91% (+ or - .6%) of the size of a cross hatch pattern(vertically or horizontally) ... Which, If I'm thinking about it right(and I may not be) would seem to me to be roughly equivilent to about 8.4~9.6% overscan (OUCH!) ... Which indeed is very much along the lines of how my set was adjusted "from the factory" ...

How do you access these so called codes or this service menu?

How do you access these so called codes or this service menu?

Here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5497408&&#post5497408)

remind me to never buy another CRT =(

although i will probably keep this piece of junk until I can get a nice SED set :)

for some reason now on my tv, the right side of the raster has more vertical size than the left, I have no idea how to fix it. it's terrible because now the vertical overscan on the right side of the screen is 8-10% while on the left is 3-5%

..............for some reason now on my tv, the right side of the raster has more vertical size than the left, I have no idea how to fix it. it's terrible because now the vertical overscan on the right side of the screen is 8-10% while on the left is 3-5%"for some reason"?......Somebody must have changed something. How to fix?......call for service if all else fails.

HTPZ is the probable fix.

remind me to never buy another CRT =(

although i will probably keep this piece of junk until I can get a nice SED set :)

for some reason now on my tv, the right side of the raster has more vertical size than the left, I have no idea how to fix it. it's terrible because now the vertical overscan on the right side of the screen is 8-10% while on the left is 3-5%

I just solved that using the service menu. My overscan was annoying as one side was more overscanned then the other. I put all the numbers to 0 and moved from there. Took like 3 hours to get it, but now I have a REAL 16x9 picture. Make sure you write down the original codes.

Thank you so much for this great resource.
I just adjusted my horizontal and vertical position and size on my xbr960, because it had been cutting off the right side of menus in Xbox games.

Thank you so much for this great resource.
I just adjusted my horizontal and vertical position and size on my xbr960, because it had been cutting off the right side of menus in Xbox games.

Please tell us how you did it...!

[QUOTE=KenTech]I would concentrate only on #0-12.

(3) I revisited all of my LANDING settings from #0 thru 6. #6, TESW, turns off the corner compensation of #0-3, LT-RB, so you can choose settings for EWSP and ENSW that give a most-even color for the screen. Put up a white or gray full screen (my black crosshatch-on-gray will do), not too bright, stand back a ways, set TESW to 1, and set EWSP and ENSW for best evenness. Then turn TESW back to 0 and tweak LT-RB for best corners -- minimum color, minimum darkening. (Don't stare; move your eyes around.) I improved mine. Something a tech said to me reminded me that there *are* set-orientation adjustments, and EW and NS look like east-west and north-south to me. I ended up with different settings than I had before and a more-even screen.

Thanks!!!, this helped me get rid of some slight blue uneveness in my left top and left buttom of the screen wheen showing a white or light grey background. :)
Now my ISF'ed XBR960 is almost perfect.

Hi all. just weighing in on the Mid3 codes as they pertain to horizontal overscan and position for the KV34-HS420/520.

I love the KV-34 series, but the horizontal overscan and centering is horrific on these models when shipped. They're popular around here, I've seen a dozen or so, and thev've all been scary. % may be a precise method of description, but it makes them sound better than they really are. I've seen HPOS center off by more than 4 inches straight from the factory. Combine it with the overscan and you have a movie called "aster and Commander"

It can't be corrected with the 2170D menus without creating unfixable picture geometry and/or blanking problems. At least I can't, and I've been messing with most of those codes for more than 20 years.

The Mid3 codes VDHS and VDHP are absolutely crucial with these models or you're going to have to watch "ora! Tora! Tora!" and wonder what's happening stage left. (It's been left on all the models I've seen anyway.)Trust the forum experts and leave the Mid3 verticals alone. The 2170D adjustments seem more than adequate for vertical issues.

If you own one of these the good news is that with the Mid3 VDHS & VDHP you can easily achieve 3% overscan on either side and perfect centering. The bad news is that you will have to reset your 2170D codes for geometry and blanking, including HPOS and HSIZ. I'd suggest you cycle through everything repeatedly and make the adjustments in smallish increments.

I haven't been able to find any real-world picture degradation problems with VDHS and VDHP. I thought I saw one, but with the assistance of muscular friends I managed a side by side comparison with matching hardware and it was purely psychological.

They are absolutely wonderful sets once you fix this nastiness. As an afterthought, it might be helpful to remember that they are not multisync like computer monitors. They always run at 1080i, no matter what signal you feed them.

cheers, John

PS. The movie titling example is slightly exaggerated, as you can still see part of the first letter, nevertheless it's still intolerable.

J

Hi all. just weighing in on the Mid3 codes as they pertain to horizontal overscan and position for the KV34-HS420/520.

I love the KV-34 series, but the horizontal overscan and centering is horrific on these models when shipped. They're popular around here, I've seen a dozen or so, and thev've all been scary. % may be a precise method of description, but it makes them sound better than they really are. I've seen HPOS center off by more than 4 inches straight from the factory. Combine it with the overscan and you have a movie called "aster and Commander"

It can't be corrected with the 2170D menus without creating unfixable picture geometry and/or blanking problems. At least I can't, and I've been messing with most of those codes for more than 20 years.

The Mid3 codes VDHS and VDHP are absolutely crucial with these models or you're going to have to watch "ora! Tora! Tora!" and wonder what's happening stage left. (It's been left on all the models I've seen anyway.)Trust the forum experts and leave the Mid3 verticals alone. The 2170D adjustments seem more than adequate for vertical issues.

If you own one of these the good news is that with the Mid3 VDHS & VDHP you can easily achieve 3% overscan on either side and perfect centering. The bad news is that you will have to reset your 2170D codes for geometry and blanking, including HPOS and HSIZ. I'd suggest you cycle through everything repeatedly and make the adjustments in smallish increments.

I haven't been able to find any real-world picture degradation problems with VDHS and VDHP. I thought I saw one, but with the assistance of muscular friends I managed a side by side comparison with matching hardware and it was purely psychological.

They are absolutely wonderful sets once you fix this nastiness. As an afterthought, it might be helpful to remember that they are not multisync like computer monitors. They always run at 1080i, no matter what signal you feed them.

cheers, John

PS. The movie titling example is slightly exaggerated, as you can still see part of the first letter, nevertheless it's still intolerable.

J

great post! however on my HS420 my MID3 settings don't have any settings for geometry.

great post! however on my HS420 my MID3 settings don't have any settings for geometry.

You're right, it doesn't. They are in the 2170D menus. No offense intended, but if you weren't solid on that, I'd suggest you back off on the MID3 adjustments for the time being. The necessary corrections are an EXTREME deviation from the manufacturers defaults. Plus, if that's all you adjust you'll mangle the picture geometry.

If you haven't already, scroll through the beginning of the thread and download the .pdf material KenTech has assembled for us. Print it. You'll need it in front of you, and it's a good place to notate your changes. Notate all changes. Resist all temptation, and every excuse not to, or I can guarantee regret.

You really need to get comfortable with the 2170D stuff first or combining it with the MID3 I was talking about is more likely to give you a migraine than a better picture.

When you do get to the MID3: My first post on the subject includes a knowledge assumption I shouldn't have made. You have to completely withdraw the blanking shutters before you start, then ease them back when you're finished. They're in 2170D-3, 0 thru 5. They keep the electron beam from hitting the sides of the tube and creating reflections on the screen.

You should probably pull them back before adjusting screen size and position in 2170D menus as well. If you see reflections on the screen, with the 420 most likely on the right side, don't worry, you can fix it with the shutters.

Have fun,

John

Hey Kentech and you other smart people, I finally understand sharpness. I always thought sharpness degraded my image until I calibrated my tv. As you know I pretty much took all the enhancements and things in the service menu (which was a LOT to say the least) and tried to make the tv "transparent" for the signal going into it. Well, now that my tv is more correctly set up I have my sharpness set on the default 29 setting for the user menu and whad-a-ya-know it looks fantastic. I didn't notice it made that huge of an impact until I started using the web browser of my PS3. I knew all my settings were correct but I noticed fine text looked blurred and almost out of focus. I thought to myself the only thing I'll even attempt to change is the sharpness, maybe those guys on AVS are right after all. If I go much past 29 text looks altered and messed up and if I go much below 29 text looks blurred. I'm not sure if the default setting is the sweet spot, but everything look great so far.

Thanks for all the informative posts all you guys make on here.

Hey Kentech and you other smart people, I finally understand sharpness. I always thought sharpness degraded my image until I calibrated my tv. As you know I pretty much took all the enhancements and things in the service menu (which was a LOT to say the least) and tried to make the tv "transparent" for the signal going into it. Well, now that my tv is more correctly set up I have my sharpness set on the default 29 setting for the user menu and whad-a-ya-know it looks fantastic. I didn't notice it made that huge of an impact until I started using the web browser of my PS3. I knew all my settings were correct but I noticed fine text looked blurred and almost out of focus. I thought to myself the only thing I'll even attempt to change is the sharpness, maybe those guys on AVS are right after all. If I go much past 29 text looks altered and messed up and if I go much below 29 text looks blurred. I'm not sure if the default setting is the sweet spot, but everything look great so far.

Thanks for all the informative posts all you guys make on here.

I have my sharpness set at 12, once I get around 20 you can see double lines and stuff, but I have a HS420.

Well, now that my tv is more correctly set up I have my sharpness set on the default 29 setting for the user menu and whad-a-ya-know it looks fantastic. I didn't notice it made that huge of an impact until I started using the web browser of my PS3. I knew all my settings were correct but I noticed fine text looked blurred and almost out of focus.Sounds simplistic, but it depends...

If you try and use an XBR960 (or any other CRT TV for that matter) as a computer monitor you're asking something quite different of the display mechanism than if you watch HDTV on it. Even overscan is a factor when the TV is used as part of a Windows desktop, as normal TV-acceptable overscan will crop the edges of the desktop (especially the taskbar at the bottom) making it unacceptable.

Similarly, the resolution of tiny text (from web browsing) on an XBR960 is also bound to be problematic. Tiny text is not normally seen in standard HDTV program content.

All of these situations may require non-zero sharpness to compensate and to produce a result that you find acceptable, but I contend that this is a situation not everybody has and I feel that in general sharpness=MIN is the proper setting for true 720p/1080i HDTV broadcast/HDDVD content. Hey... I have sharpness=19 for my D*-provided SD input (on INPUT1) but also have sharpness=0 on INPUT5/6 and 7 as well as firewire and ATSC.

Bottom line: a discussion of sharpness and its appropriate setting needs to include the type of content being handled (SD or HD), and whether you're displaying computer-like output (e.g. small text and graphics) or watching "Star Wars".

I have the latest oppo dvd upconvert player hooked to my HDMI on my SONY KD-34XBR960.
At resolutions of 720p and 1080i, I get a green push or green tint to the overall picture. At 480p, the picture looks great!

Is there any adjustment I can make to rid of the green push?

P

Wow all this time an you guys are still debating the same set of limited values......... You would think by now you would at least have tried to atempt a listed definition guide of all the service menu varaiables(so you could move onto a tried and true calibration guide). All I still see is Ken's braggart diary with axiom instructions from his learned greek mind and GlenC still owning him at every opportunity, but only in the interest of his trade(what a great guy). The rest of you act like Ken is god fooling around and repeating what he says to the noobs like you guys are his important right hand men and I'm sure he feels that way about you. I still see allot of conjecture that looks retarded. I would think you could have had some of these isf guys shed some light in here but it looks like no one has accomplished that either. You all know it all anyway what do you need them for. What is left is the first 10 pages of nonsense calibrations that ken has since revised, but he wants you to read 100 pages to figure that out so you can waste as much time as he and the rest of you have(in your inane I have the end all calibration approach one up contest). It seems you all end up agreeing with the manuals hidden secrets anyway so why even try to sound like you came up with it. I also see allot of non truths posted in this thread just mindless adherence to the manual or this is the way it is on my tv approaches that list variables without any kind of decent explanation of what they do or what other settings they affect(really your just writing dairies of your callibration experiences which have nothing to do with the title of this thread at all and have helped no one other than you so you can feel like your apart of something). If you read closely what your explanations always boil down to is endless trial and error until you get it just right which is not a method at all its just trial and error. I'm sure most of you don't even know what the different picture modes mean even still or can explain the errors in the service manual or even really understand any of this stuff beyond what is very east to understand. I mean there are whole sections of this manual and crucial details that still none of you understand. I mean what use is saying this abbreviated variable and this setting(Most of the time you dont even post your last or the service manual stock value for your tv like you assume everyone has your tv and service manual).

So in closing you really havent learned all that much about the service codes. Instead this thread should be titled my service mode journey and what limited knowledge I have come up with. Also ken most of your offerings have come from you googling the abbreviations, and I always find it amazing that you only release the information when someone else discusses it.

Sounds simplistic, but it depends...

If you try and use an XBR960 (or any other CRT TV for that matter) as a computer monitor you're asking something quite different of the display mechanism than if you watch HDTV on it. Even overscan is a factor when the TV is used as part of a Windows desktop, as normal TV-acceptable overscan will crop the edges of the desktop (especially the taskbar at the bottom) making it unacceptable.

Similarly, the resolution of tiny text (from web browsing) on an XBR960 is also bound to be problematic. Tiny text is not normally seen in standard HDTV program content.

All of these situations may require non-zero sharpness to compensate and to produce a result that you find acceptable, but I contend that this is a situation not everybody has and I feel that in general sharpness=MIN is the proper setting for true 720p/1080i HDTV broadcast/HDDVD content. Hey... I have sharpness=19 for my D*-provided SD input (on INPUT1) but also have sharpness=0 on INPUT5/6 and 7 as well as firewire and ATSC.

Bottom line: a discussion of sharpness and its appropriate setting needs to include the type of content being handled (SD or HD), and whether you're displaying computer-like output (e.g. small text and graphics) or watching "Star Wars".

That does make sense, and I've argued for a long time that sharpness set at Min or 0 would be the proper setting so as it would not introduce noise into the picture. However, and I'm not arguing here, but just making an observation of my set and they way I have it set up, at the moment, with my settings as they are, sharpness set around 29(give or take a point or two) looks beyond belief with whatever content I'm displaying. Video games look nothing short of astonishing, and I think astonishing is probably a huge understatement. Movies look, at times, as if the actors are right there in front of me. My sharpness honestly looks like it is acting as an extra focus control, and not the video noise maker I once thought it was. I'm beginning to think why I hated it so much in the past was because I never had my TV displaying images in such a transparent way before. I'm betting sharpness was just enhancing all those internal enhancers either directly or indirectly. But now, that just doesn't happen, my text looks perfect and doesn't suffer from any strange anomalies you would normally expect sharpness to cause. I'm now starting to understand why Kentech is so enthusiastic about adding 'tweaks' here and there to his television set.


If I could explain it to someone who works with Photoshop...

On my set, sharpness at 33 and going up acts like the Sharpen More tool is being added the further you go up. Sharpness at 25- starts acting like the Blur More tool is being added the further you go down. However, when you have it set right near that 29 position, at least on the standard setting, it's as if you just opened a high quality image in photoshop and it was taken by a very skilled photographer. But none of the settings, whether I raise it or lower it, act like the Noise tool in Photoshop.

That's just an observation of how it looks to me, and I don't know if this is simply how sharpness works on this set, perhaps it's the revision number I have or perhaps those ENHA settings are also controlled by the sharpness slider?, or if there are some other settings I have incorrect somewhere to cause it to act this way. Regardless of what it is, everything now looks astounding, beyond belief, and incredible. I simply can't recall a television set I've ever seen at any store or at anyone's home that could hold a candle to this thing.
Then again, I'm not a tv tech either.

You would think by now you would at least have tried to atempt a listed definition guide of all the service menu varaiables(so you could move onto a tried and true calibration guide).

I actually did this very thing when I calibrated my TV. I dug up all the information I could find posted by Dsperber, Ken, and everyone else. Then made a note of what each setting appeared to do and tried to disable or minimize the effect of anything that altered the image on the screen from it's original state. For instance, in the 3D-COMB section of the service menu I made a note that Ken, or someone on here, found that VAPG and VAPI are some kind of vertical enhancement and that 0 turned them off, so I turned them off. I learned that PROV, F1LV, LTLV, LTMD, and CTLV all provide some kind of alteration to the image, so I set them all to 0. The point is I had to make sure I could disable them and I had to make sure than 0 did just that. On a few settings 1 or 3 may center or disable the enhancement. I don't even know exactly what some of these setting even do, just that some of the kind folks here noticed what happened to their image when they adjusted them.



So in closing you really havent learned all that much about the service codes.

But, boy do I have one fantastic looking TV.

Greetings,
I am experiencing an extemely noticeable picture shift at the bottom of my screen (sony kd-30xs955). This is not adjustable with the LCP setting in the service menu. The geometry of my tv is very close to perfect (after hours of adjusting!), however at the very bottom of my screen my picture shifts HARD to the left. Has anyone experienced this before? Here is what it looks like:

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| < Image with great geometry
//////////////////////////////////////// < Image shifted left at very bottom of screen

If I switch APSW to 1 in the service menu this problem disappears on 1080i mode but comes right back when I am viewing dvd's through hdmi. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks-

The point is to share it and come up with a complete full on defintion of the service codes and interaction. Lets face it you wont do that work yourself..........

Two part question for the groups experts:

1 (curiosity) When viewing a 2.35:1 DVD why do the black bars shift in luminosity?

2 (what I'm desperate to know) Any thoughts on codes or settings where I could experiment with compromise values to minimize this effect?

30HS420, here...

After adjusting/calibrating/optimizing all that I think that I want to mess with, and getting really great results with regard to picture quality, overscan, and geometry; I still have 2 lingering issues that I wonder if anyone might be able to advise me how to try and correct?

#1
when fine fabric patterns appear in the screen (or tight contrasting patterns in general, really...) that area seems to 'shimmer', is the best way I can describe it. Like a fluctuating moire pattern. The DVE Test Pattern in Title 13, Chapter 2 'SMPTE RP 133' produces the effect for me. The box with fine black/white pattern shimmers. More so when 480i, but still with 480p.

#2
Horizontal lines within the mid-lower section of my screen bend/bow upward at the screen edges. this is most noticeable whenever a full-width horizontal banner is present on-screen.
I've tried adjusting with all the available Vertical geometry controls in 2170-D1; without much luck. If I overcompensate these controls to decrease this bowing, the rest of the image is severely compromised. I'm wondering if there is a MID-x series control that might help? But I don't have an understanding of what all of those settings control? The hs420 service data chart.pdf is an invaluable resource for finding settings, but no descriptions of each function accompanies that reference.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

--
corlay

If I switch APSW to 1 in the service menu this problem disappears on 1080i mode but comes right back when I am viewing dvd's through hdmi.

APSW is an aspect switch that tweaks pin, as you've seen (4:3 tube vs 16:9 tube on the sames chassis), and the setting for 1080 (as far as my limited knowledge goes) are opposite of what you need for the other input modes.

So, try setting the other modes to O, or setting your DVD output to 1080 (if you haven't already)

I've seen it and it ain't pretty.

As a desperate last resort, you could nudge up the bottom blanking shutter in 2170D. but it shouldn't be necessary.

Cheers
john

The shimmering you describe is most likely a result of ClearEdge Velocity Modulation.

NB. IF 210P-3, item 17, VM, is not 0: off does not mean off, and the screen has a noisy "shimmer". Modes other than Pro have some VM as a factory default, even when you turn it off.

Suggest you set VM to 0 for everything so you can actually turn it off, and try that in the normal TV video menu.

It can be helpful in very small doses. The factory settings are 4-15. I use mine at 1,2 & 3. (VML, VMM, VMH)

The bowing geometry problem is only fixable with time and patience. I started fixing deflection problems like this when you had to make the adjustments with a screwdriver and there's still no fast easy system that I can figure out. As you've noticed it's all interconnected. Change one thing and everything else goes out of wack.

All I can come up with is cycling through everything over and over, making adjustments in small increments and slowly nudging everything into place a bit at a time. It's tedious, but it works.

As much as I love perfection when I get to something that works for me in the real world I stop. Troy may be a ghastly awful movie, but if those phalanxes of spears are straight and travel across the screen without any wavering......................

only you know how good you need it

john

Two part question for the groups experts:

1 (curiosity) When viewing a 2.35:1 DVD why do the black bars shift in luminosity?

2 (what I'm desperate to know) Any thoughts on codes or settings where I could experiment with compromise values to minimize this effect?It really depends on what you are really seeing. My first guess would be that it is slight and changes with the brightness level of the picture. If so, that would be caused by reflections inside the tube. If you really want 2.35:1, you can make a mask to put in front of the tube. If you look at the 2nd disc of the Da Vinci Code, there is a scene in there where you can clearly see gaffers tape on the tube of the broadcast monitor, framing the 2.35:1 format.

Thanks for the suggestion gribble. I went thru the menu and made sure ASPW was set to zero for everything except 1080i...now let me check my bottom shutter.

My bottom shutter is set perfectly. I really don't want to "cover up" this problem. I am not a big fan of over-overscan so I think I'll seek another solution. Besides, on 720p broadcasts this problem climbs up almost two inches from the bottom of my screen. I'll try to post a picture of it...

http://thumbsnap.com/t/yAVS5QZH.jpg (http://thumbsnap.com/v/yAVS5QZH.jpg)

http://thumbsnap.com/t/AkkCMAH6.jpg (http://thumbsnap.com/v/AkkCMAH6.jpg)
Click on the pics.
Here is what it looks like...It's as if everthing on the bottom of my screen is smeared to the left. Grrr...
I must also mention that it is bad on 1080i broadcasts but is worse on 720p and DVD video via HDMI. However, SD broadcasts are perfect, no skewing! Please help! Chris-

Greetings,
I am experiencing an extemely noticeable picture shift at the bottom of my screen (sony kd-30xs955). This is not adjustable with the LCP setting in the service menu. The geometry of my tv is very close to perfect (after hours of adjusting!), however at the very bottom of my screen my picture shifts HARD to the left. Has anyone experienced this before? Here is what it looks like:

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| < Image with great geometry
//////////////////////////////////////// < Image shifted left at very bottom of screen

If I switch APSW to 1 in the service menu this problem disappears on 1080i mode but comes right back when I am viewing dvd's through hdmi. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks-

It's very interesting you posted this. I have the EXACT same problem on my 34xs955 on all content except 480i. It forces me to adjust 480p, and up, to have about 3-4% overscan, which isn't bad at all, but I would really like a nice 2% of that back. If I find any fixes I'll be sure and post them here.

The point is to share it and come up with a complete full on defintion of the service codes and interaction. Lets face it you wont do that work yourself..........

If I could I would, but there are so many codes, and so many combinations of codes that work together and counteract each other it's just nearly impossible to get through them all. Other members have posted what many of the codes do, you just need to search all the different pages to find them. I had an entire stack of pages printed out before I got the gist of them.

Give me a few more days and I'll be updating my settings post that is a few pages back. I may even start a new thread either here or on my site and list everything I can in one easy to read post. Just keep in mind I'm just simply not as skilled as other people on here are. I'm just the average joe fiddler and not a service tech.

To give you an idea of how nice my set is looking now, I can view the text on this forum from my PS3 with the display set to 1080i. Though I normally switch it to 720p since it's just that much easier to read. It, of course, isn't as easy to read as a computer monitor, but the fact I can read fine text on my CRT tells me I'm calibrating in the right direction.

Glen lose some weight.

Greetings,
I am experiencing an extemely noticeable picture shift at the bottom of my screen (sony kd-30xs955). This is not adjustable with the LCP setting in the service menu. The geometry of my tv is very close to perfect (after hours of adjusting!), however at the very bottom of my screen my picture shifts HARD to the left. Has anyone experienced this before? Here is what it looks like:

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| < Image with great geometry
//////////////////////////////////////// < Image shifted left at very bottom of screen

If I switch APSW to 1 in the service menu this problem disappears on 1080i mode but comes right back when I am viewing dvd's through hdmi. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks-
I'm not sure about 30XS955, but 34XBR970 has a setting PSTP in MID3 that seems to fix this.

Gen you obviously haven't been reading the thread very long. I have a better understanding of the codes than you do, and guy with the 45 degree angle at the bottom thats a front porch issue you need to go back through the thread or do that research on your own(kens solution is never adjust overscan(it makes it blurry))(to overcome this I just run 720P mode with the MIDE for 1080). A porch issue is hard to fix with just the tv by itself you need a computer or some other fancy device I have no idea about. My tv is now 5 years old and I think my red gun died. I need sed...... Think I'll just order a nice crt monitor to hold me over......
My point was, since it went completely over your head, is to not sound like a know it all jerk and actually work together instead of fighting like a bunch of impatient americans. Yes I'm from this country; I'm just above you and not a ridiculous. I mean you guys have been prattering on for 2 years now. Its time to put all this stuff together and be done with it. Stop witholding information like someone's set might look better than yours. I assure you the guy with the nicer model looks better anyway and none of you can touch the standards of a seasoned isf callibrator so why fight over whos crappy tweaks are better. Competition is good but in this situation it's just plain stupid. Think about someone else when you write your posts all I see in this thread is me me me. What a bunch of titties.

P.S. This is not the help me fix my tv thread. This thread is for discussion of service codes. Those that need help start another thread so you dont end up adding useless drivle to this thread which by now is most of it. I mean all I keep seeing is discussion of the same things over and over interspersed with useless informatiion and or typing.

Are you sure APSW can't get it? Tried all mode settings? I have three sets accessible to play with in addition to my own, and I can turn precisely the same hideous bottom shift on and off at will for the various modes in the APSW menu.

Here's what I did. Hooked up DVD player, cycled through all modes, 480i, 480p, 720p
1080i. Set APSW code to eliminate the shift for each one. The 720P is just for reference. As far as I can tell 720P uses the same setting as 1080i, but if you have the shift it's worse in 720.

Sadly, none of these sets are your model.

(only fer wot it's worth)

john

Thats what I figured, just hoping to be wrong. My language was a little sloppy, should have said 'fluctuates with overall average picture luminance.'

I only use Avia and DVE to establish my baselines anyway, given that DVD authoring values are all over the map and some heavily digitized stuff like LOTRings isn't even consistent from scene to scene. I'm pretty sure I can find a black/gamma/brightness/contrast compromise tweak in the DVD output settings that I'm content with. Didn't want to go there prematurely.

Thanks again

john

Are you sure APSW can't get it? Tried all mode setting? I have three sets accessible to play with in addition to my own, and I can turn precisely the same hideous bottom shift on and off at will for the various modes in the APSW menu.

(only fer wot it's worth)

john
I'll have to check APSW out next time I'm in my SM. I had the same problem with my TV, and found the PSTP "solution" in a previous post in this thread. PSTP seems to affect the slanty-bottom stuff directly - if you adjust it one way, it makes the slanty stuff start farther up the screen, and if you adjust it the other way it makes the slanty stuff start further down the screen, so you can keep going until it gets to the bottom of the screen and it's gone. If you go farther than that, it makes the whole screen go all loopy.

I couldn't find a whole lot of info about APSW here in this thread when I searched for it. I'll certainly do some investigating next time I'm in the SM. I'd rather leave all the MID3 settings alone if I can fix the problem with 2170D-1.

Man, if only there were a thread devoted to the sony service menu codes instead of just this "help me fix my TV" thread... then I might be able to learn more about APSW...

G-Bull you have solved my problem my friend. PSTP in MID3 was exactly what I needed to straighten those lines out. And for those people who have the same problem as I did and don't know how to search it on this forum, here are some key words to make their search a little easier:
Bottom slant
bottom curve
bottom bending
bottom skewed
Hopefully they find this post! Thanks again all who helped! C-

I understand exactly what the people averse to the "help me fix my TV" theme are talking about, but respectfully, I disagree.

I saw my first Sony Service Menu in 1985 when the TV station I worked for replaced the master control monitor bank with about 50 14" xbrs and told me to calibrate them. It's a good thing I had a direct line to Sony Technical Services, because, despite the hundreds of pages of detailed documentation provided, I NEEDED HELP.

I found this thread more than twenty years later because my new Sony had a lot of changes in the service menu from the last one, and I NEEDED HELP.

My point is, all the service code information in the world is useless if you can't use it to make the changes you need to. I answered most of my questions by reading the whole thread first, but I already knew what I had to look for, and how to apply it when I found it.

Most people who end up here only know 3 things when they start. There's something about their TV they don't like, you can probably fix it in the service menu, and they need help.

It might be easier keeping up if the only people here already knew how to read an offset values table, but I think the "help me fix my TV component" cluttering up the thread with redundant posts, speculation, et cetera, et cetera, is what makes it useful. I think it belongs here.

What better place to ask for help than the place where the methods for making the necessary adjustments are under discussion? How can anyone learn anything if they can't ask questions?

I get sick of reading the same stuff too. I sympathize with everyone who's tired of the same old simple issues, but I think it's a necessary price we pay to keep an active, useful thread going. The forums and sites that stuck to technical listings are gathering dust because they weren't very much use to very many people. Three cheers for the poorly informed newbies.

Kudos to monkeysalad on the keyword posting. That's how we get it done.

Of course you disagree your a selfish overly verbose(to the point of stupidity) jerk. This is to understand all the service codes not just everyones academic little problems. Thats why this thread is 80 pages long and none of you have read it all and i don't really blame you. I wouldn't read it either. See you create your own problem; you won't read the thread because its too long and then you make the situation worse by being lazy and posting your problem in the thread so someone will help YOU. I mean really all you do is crap all over the thread. Your lazy and selfish thats all there is to it. I don't care how nice you ACT facts are facts and outcomes are outcomes. I dare you to disprove anything I say.
No the thread has become unusable your just one of those say anything to get your way old fart losers. I mean you and the rest of you have proven that so dont come in here and lie to everyone. All the good people have left the thread because you losers have cluttered it with crap. Now there are just losers regurgitating the same crap over and over that has been covered at least 5 times. No the price that has been paid is the death of any further exploration or understanding to the regurgitation of idiots. Yes, you are all idiots. I'm tired of reading your posts almost every single one of them is incorrect. You guys can't ever make posts without erroneous self serving my tv looks better than yours conclusions.

Look, be a jerk all you want, but if the thread was run in a more collaborative collection of information into a tried and true guide it would have been a much better experience, but instead of course it has devolved into the crappy banter of a bunch of power minded hierarchical who is the bigger genius monkey pissing contests which ken spawned, and I hate him for it. He had a great idea to start the thread, but he wanted to be the "star" of it, and the rest of you monkeys just monkey see monkey do and copy him. I mean really you guys could at least sound somewhat courteous to each other. I find it funny how you all assume you know it all then when someone owns you cause you really dont know anything and you get so hurt. YOUR HILAROUS.

P.S. Ken yes you wanted to be the star of it. I saw that on agoraquest you were always quick to put others down so you would look the smartest.

...See you create your own problem; you won't read the thread because its too long and then you make the situation worse by being lazy and posting your problem in the thread so someone will help YOU.
Trolling again I see?

"Create your own problem?"

Sound familiar?

You're the one who almost two years ago ignored all the warnings and reset your antique set in the SM and then blamed everyone else for it.
I mean really all you do is crap all over the thread. Your lazy and selfish thats all there is to it. I don't care how nice you ACT facts are facts and outcomes are outcomes.
Look in the mirror.

...but if the thread was run in a more collaborative collection of information into a tried and true guide it would have been a much better experience...
You were whining about this almost two years ago as well. Talk about lazy - you could have put just such a thing together in less time. Add the word contribution to your vocabulary (that's a list of words one uses in written and spoken dialog...)

...I mean really you guys could at least sound somewhat courteous to each other...
Remember that mirror?

P.S. Ken yes you wanted to be the star of it...
Stand up and take a bow - I believe you are the new star :rolleyes:

I'm not sure about 30XS955, but 34XBR970 has a setting PSTP in MID3 that seems to fix this.

That cleared it up for all my modes, and I found that adjusting it to just the right number also helps to reduce flicker in the interlaced modes.

(also christensen you were right that mikeinfargo is a lazy kid but at the same time that isssue was never addressed in the thread so for others why not just help him)
Ken you do not know everything and I'm not an idiot, ok.

Look, I fixed it. I know what you know, and now I know more. You have no room to talk down to me. :)......
I mean really control yourself, and stop making yourself out to be a joke.


Glen lose some weight.

Gen you obviously haven't been reading the thread very long. I have a better understanding of the codes than you do.......I'm just above you and not a ridiculous...... What a bunch of titties.

Of course you disagree your a selfish overly verbose(to the point of stupidity) jerk...... Your lazy and selfish thats all there is to it....... I don't care how nice you ACT facts are facts and outcomes are outcomes. I dare you to disprove anything I say.
No the thread has become unusable your just one of those say anything to get your way old fart losers. I mean you and the rest of you have proven that so dont come in here and lie to everyone. All the good people have left the thread because you losers have cluttered it with crap. Now there are just losers regurgitating the same crap over and over that has been covered at least 5 times. No the price that has been paid is the death of any further exploration or understanding to the regurgitation of idiots. Yes, you are all idiots. I'm tired of reading your posts almost every single one of them is incorrect. You guys can't ever make posts without erroneous self serving my tv looks better than yours conclusions.

Look, be a jerk all you want, but if the thread was run in a more collaborative collection of information into a tried and true guide it would have been a much better experience, but instead of course it has devolved into the crappy banter of a bunch of power minded hierarchical who is the bigger genius monkey pissing contests which ken spawned, and I hate him for it. He had a great idea to start the thread, but he wanted to be the "star" of it, and the rest of you monkeys just monkey see monkey do and copy him. I mean really you guys could at least sound somewhat courteous to each other. I find it funny how you all assume you know it all then when someone owns you cause you really dont know anything and you get so hurt. YOUR HILAROUS.

P.S. Ken yes you wanted to be the star of it. I saw that on agoraquest you were always quick to put others down so you would look the smartest.

What the hell happened to you?

What the hell happened to you?

To quote Kobe Bryant : "I don't think he was hugged enough as a kid"

To quote Kobe Bryant : "I don't think he was hugged enough as a kid"

Um, didn't Kobe get into trouble for "hugging" someone? :p

Dude that got fixed a long time ago. Your a god damn retard I just said the warning was not worded correctly get your head out of your behind. Funny how you all wake up now. You know i got you all pegged. Justsc your just a ken regurgitator the reason why I dont post in this thread is you are just a gang of monkeys and anyone that disagrees with ken is the enemy(or who doesnt kiss the thread regs az)(well guess what kiss mine). You guys got all power tripped over a thread about tweaking a tv and you all still suck at it cmon your jokes. Please I saw all this coming reason I didnt do this before is because I thought maybe the thread would progress. 6 months ago I thought that the thread was over but now I can see I've been right about everything. Face it you gu;ys have just been a bunch of dicks the whole time. Serves you right to hear what you deserve.

Everything I have said about each of you you deserve and its right on. Glen telling people to put tape on their screen to get rid of black bars cmon only a fat loser would say something like that. Tired of that ahole trying to shet on the thread in every post and justsc you are a total a licker I saw that a long time ago. I can do the rest of you one by one just come to me and say something real. Dude that pasted all that stuff with the huge type quotes I thank you. I hope it hit in you your mind like that but in my mind it is much more quiet and monotone.

Ok you think im the bad guy? How many "noobs" did you guys take a crap on like you are so special(I mean cmon justsc pchristiansen gator whatever nightwatchman(your not as bad as the rest but your a follower) you guys have contributed nothing but you all act like college professors).........................
If you know what the person is talking about that means its been covered so your a dick and you say search the thread(never originates from you). If someone asks something you dont know you just sit there silent(you deserve to have higher status as a reg). I wasnt that mad about the misworded warning ken wrote. The warning should be dont ever reset your tv not avoid these keys(I'm still so fn right on this its hilarious that in power monkey land you still think you have legs to stand on). I was more mad about how you guys act and face it you know im right i believe silly internet power monkeys call that owned.

Also get real in the pos sony service guide course where ever that is maybe japan only they cover what you guys know in one day and I bet the job doesnt pay that high in japan compared to other jobs. You guys dont even know the acronym definitions. Its like you guys are arguing and being jerks over the debate of how many teeth a horse has................. When all you have to do is look a gift horse in the mouth....................

P.S. I have more than illustrated that you and your monkey gang and ken and his pos approach to sharing information are the problem(wow ken you have more experience sorry to break it to you ken your not all that bright at all) and I didnt create that. Sure, If I was around during the beginning of this thread i could have guided you idiots into being nicer. But you dont deserve to know the way how to live or think because your a gd retard.

Maybe kentech or somebody else can help me out here. I been lurking for a while and just ran into a problem. I posted this on the display calibration forum also cause i wasn't sure where it should go. heres the post from there:

I have a sony wega KV-FS100L ( stone age, i know ) and really been into the service menu adjustments for a while, so i know what i'm doing when it comes to that. What i noticed is a flickering on the screen. Like it will go dark to light. I did a search and set VRFL to 1 and DSD to 0 in the service menu a while back,and that got rid of it, but then i noticed the faint flicker again when on a static image. Whats weird is if i turn DCTV in the service menu to 0 or 1 it disapears, but if i keep it at it's default of 2 thats when it flickers. ALSO if i turn DSD back to 1 it disapears. What i'm wondering is which parameter should i be using for the fix? Each seem to fix the problem, but lowering the DCTV seems to raise the brightness a tad, and i have no clue what the DSD parameter even is for. So would it be safer to just turn the DSD to 1? Whats weird tho is the higher up i go on DSD the more interference and lines i get on the screen. Thanks for any help!

Hi all. just weighing in on the Mid3 codes as they pertain to horizontal overscan and position for the KV34-HS420/520.

I love the KV-34 series, but the horizontal overscan and centering is horrific on these models when shipped. They're popular around here, I've seen a dozen or so, and thev've all been scary. % may be a precise method of description, but it makes them sound better than they really are. I've seen HPOS center off by more than 4 inches straight from the factory. Combine it with the overscan and you have a movie called "aster and Commander"

It can't be corrected with the 2170D menus without creating unfixable picture geometry and/or blanking problems. At least I can't, and I've been messing with most of those codes for more than 20 years.


FWIW, adjustment of 2170D2 HPOS or HSIZ does not seem to effect geometry(straightness of vertical or horizontal lines in a crosshatch pattern specifically, or linearity) on my set(KD34XBR960).

However, as I believe I've noted before, it seems that on my set at least adjustment of HCNT ("supposed" to be used to center raster) does, most specifically+noticably effect H Linearity ... and, adjustment of 2170D1 VPOS has a slight effect(more pronounced the greater the difference in adjustment of the values if that makes since) on geometry as well, somewhat similar to PPHA ....

Hello again,

I have been trying to eliminate all sources of ringing/edge enhancement on my 34XS955 for the good part of a week now, but I am still plagued by ringing/ghosting above and below high contrast-low detail horizontal edges. Everything is hunky-dory on the left and right sides of edges and I do not have a clue as to what could be causing this. Improper scaling of the image from MID1 vert. size adjustment perhaps?
I must preface this by saying that my set does not fall in line with many default settings that are provided in the Service Manual and (like a few others) has no provision for making any of the standard vert/horiz adjustments in the MID3 menu. The group menu options are completely different.
So, if any of you kind souls have any options I might try, I would love to hear about them.

Cheers,

Bryan

Hello again,

I have been trying to eliminate all sources of ringing/edge enhancement on my 34XS955 for the good part of a week now, but I am still plagued by ringing/ghosting above and below high contrast-low detail horizontal edges. Everything is hunky-dory on the left and right sides of edges and I do not have a clue as to what could be causing this. Improper scaling of the image from MID1 vert. size adjustment perhaps?
I must preface this by saying that my set does not fall in line with many default settings that are provided in the Service Manual and (like a few others) has no provision for making any of the standard vert/horiz adjustments in the MID3 menu. The group menu options are completely different.
So, if any of you kind souls have any options I might try, I would love to hear about them.

Cheers,

Bryanmy set seems the same, menu options for geometry, etc. are very different than that of the service manual. Also my MID3 has no geometry adjustments. I just used the 2107D group to adjust the most stuff and MID1\2.
I also have sharpness set to the minimum, turned off all VM in the service menu, and have SYM=3 and SHOF=3.
I have a HS420 BTW.

Good to hear from others that have this version of the SM.

I utilize those same settings, but there is this bizzare vertical ringing. (I may be using the wrong terminology. Whatever you would call a halo or double image above and below horizontal edges.) It also contributes to some awful aliasing on moving diagonal edges.
It makes me wonder if maybe I have some sort of sharpening switched "ON" instead because I have noticed a pronounced softening of details in motion from 1080i T.V. sources. This was not an issue before. Static images are stunning, but introduce some motion and it's mushville.

Oh, well. I'll continue fiddling (as my wife calls it) until I hear some suggestions.

Thanks,

Bryan

Can't you revert to your previous, known-good settings or has your TV always done this?

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=056E8A0B5D5B4DEF

a link to the Service Manual for the HS and DRC model TV's

only good for a couple of days more someone could repost it if they like

Oliver,

I have tried the "original" settings, the "default" settings from the Service Manual and some adjustments of my own. All yield the same results in regards to the vertical overshoot, so it must have always been there (I just wasn't as anal about the PQ back then, thanks AVS!)

Actually after some more tinkering, I think it might be a focus issue. I had QDPC cranked to the max before because when I thew a test pattern up, it never quite reached complete focus. I was one 10" plastic screwdriver away from attempting KenTech's manual focus adjustment when I thought of another test source. On my HD DVD player, when you attempt a firmware upgrade you are confronted with a screenful of 1080i leagalese!
After adjusting focus and convergence, I have a greatly improved picture. My QPDC setting is now around 46, just about in the ballpark for my set's default. Wow, I obviously have been concentrating on horizontal resolution instead of vertical. Quite surprized it didn't jump out at me sooner.
Now I've freed up some time to futz with my greyscale. Urg, I tried RWetmore's experiment with the jacked up DRV and CUT. Yes, more shadow detail but I could not control the overdriven reds with any form of SBRT or GAMR/GAMG/GAMB. Back to the drawing board.

This is all quite fascinating and empowering (if you follow the Golden Rules). Thank you, KenTech, Nightwatchman, RWetmore, GlenC, justc, Oliver and everyone else who has contibuted positively to this thread. (You know who you are!)

Cheers,

Bryan

Would bypassing the MID chips for 1080i result in a better picture?
I was reading another thread about vertical bars with 1080i and it was mentioned to bypass the internal electronics and have the signal go straight to the CRT you change HDPT from 1 to 0. Would that make the picture quality better since your bypassing the MID\DRC circuts?
Also another quick question my upsacaling DVD player can output either YCbCr or RGB thru HDMI which is better to choose?
I want the least amount of converting the signal done.

Well, it appears I haven't solved the problem. My focus is sharp, but the ringing remains. It apparent on high quality DVD material and 1080i and 480i cable programming.
Still scratching my head as to what would cause ringing only in the vertical realm.
Any ideas as to a enhancement that may have eluded me?

Thanks,

Bryan

Can anyone elaborate on how to properly adjust Focus? , Should I have the Contrast turned down when making the adjustments? Im actually trying to adjust the focus on my Sony FW900 PC CRT , it has 2 focus screws (vertical & horizontal) but Im not sure what would be the best test pattern for making the adjustments or if I should be in a higher resolution vs. low , refresh rate etc. Ive adjusted it a few times today with decent results but the problem is black text looks kinda of 'blurry' on a white background unless I turn down the contrast, this symptom seems to be affected on how the focus is adjusted ..but so far it only improves if i set it slightly out of focus.

Any idea how to fix this...

Any idea how to fix this...

If I am right you have too little overscan, and thus are seeing those bends. Those white perimeter grids should be closer to the edge of the set, where they should be barely seen. There is a point where the bars stop bending and that is when the overscan is within bounds. Too little overscan, and pronounced bending will occur.

If it is not overscan and that is the right amount then take a look at this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36477) and see if you can't see where a tweak in geometry will help. This help correct it to the point on my 960 that it wasn't noticeable on regular programming. There is always a compromise unless you are really really good at calibrating.

The point is to share it and come up with a complete full on defintion of the service codes and interaction. Lets face it you wont do that work yourself..........

Someone HAS done the work. See DSperber's post #2200 and he has attached a spreadsheet that defines each code and what it does. It should be in the index at the beginning of this thread.

Here is the link (http://mirror2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=531494&page=37&pp=60) the page where the post is located. GO down to post #2200. Right click the .zip he provides and open in Excel in a new window or tab. I printed this out it was and is so informative.

Hi, I posted earlier over in the XBR960 thread about some awful color blotches on my 960, and thanks to this forum I was able to fix most of the problem with the LANDING settings in the service menu. The problem is that I can't get rid of the discoloration completely in one area of the screen. The top right corner still has some visual color blotching.

For those of you well-versed in the service menu, is there anything else that I can do to get rid of this problem? The LT and LB settings in my service menu are already at 0 out of 255, so I can't adjust those anymore. I am really stumped on what to try now. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, CK

If I am right you have too little overscan, and thus are seeing those bends. Those white perimeter grids should be closer to the edge of the set, where they should be barely seen. There is a point where the bars stop bending and that is when the overscan is within bounds. Too little overscan, and pronounced bending will occur.

If it is not overscan and that is the right amount then take a look at this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36477) and see if you can't see where a tweak in geometry will help. This help correct it to the point on my 960 that it wasn't noticeable on regular programming. There is always a compromise unless you are really really good at calibrating.

My overscan is nearly 8%. If I have enough overscan to rid of that, then things will not show up on the screen like headline tickers and logos.
I have gone through all of KenTechs info.

My overscan is nearly 8%. If I have enough overscan to rid of that, then things will not show up on the screen like headline tickers and logos.
I have gone through all of KenTechs info.

So if you brought the overscan down to 2% or 3% would the lines be bent really bad?

*Great* thread - 2 thumbs way up. :D :D :D

TV: KD-32FS170

The speaker volume for OTA digital channels are way out of whack (too loud), and I was hoping there was a service code for this TV to control audio. For example, on CBS the volume is borderline too loud at the lowest volume setting. :confused: Unfortunately it appears there is no AUDIO code group on the KD-32FS170. Does anyone know if there are generic speaker volume codes that apply to all Sony TVs?

Thanks in advance!

Dan

So if you brought the overscan down to 2% or 3% would the lines be bent really bad?

bringing it down by so few a % will not cause "more".

Any idea how to fix this...
Which "this" are you talking about, exactly? Your pic shows a few problems:

1) overscan - while not really a problem, that's what others mentioned. Overscan can be adjusted through the service menu. It's all in this thread.

2) geometry/bent lines. These can be adjusted to a certain extent within the service menu. However it's difficult (maybe impossible) to get 100% perfection of the geometry of these big tubes.

3) convergence - there's a fairly clear (and fairly pronounced) convergence problem in the pic that you posted. The white horizontal lines are flanked by a red line above the white part and a blue line below the white part. Unfortunately, this problem cannot be fixed within the service menu. The service menu does have convergence adjustments that fix sid-to-side horizontal convergence problems, but not top-to-bottom vertical convergence problems. These can only be corrected by someone (a qualified technician) removing the plastic cover from the TV and affixing magnets to the tube. This may be covered under warranty, I don't know. You'd have to talk to Sony about that. The up-side of having someone come out to correct the convergence with magnets is that they can also correct the geometry problems (#2 above) with the magnets as well.

bringing it down by so few a % will not cause "more".

If there are no adverse effects then do try to bring the overscan down to 2% to 5%.

If you can get a knowledgeable tech to come and do the magnet work for the up and down convergence that would be good too. I didn't see that in the pic. Good eyes G-Bull!

Can anyone elaborate on how to properly adjust Focus? , Should I have the Contrast turned down when making the adjustments? Im actually trying to adjust the focus on my Sony FW900 PC CRT , it has 2 focus screws (vertical & horizontal) but Im not sure what would be the best test pattern for making the adjustments or if I should be in a higher resolution vs. low , refresh rate etc. Ive adjusted it a few times today with decent results but the problem is black text looks kinda of 'blurry' on a white background unless I turn down the contrast, this symptom seems to be affected on how the focus is adjusted ..but so far it only improves if i set it slightly out of focus.

Answering my own post, Nice ..Just thought I'd share my results, After some trial and error I found out adjusting the focus with the Contrast turned up higher than you'd normally run it works wonders with getting optimal focus, All I did was load cnn.com which has a white background and a lot of black & blue text ..with the contrast turned up to 85 text had a blurry / bloom effect but I was able to get it crystal clear (with the contrast still at 85) by adjusting the focus, this worked out far better than trying to adjust it with the contrast turned down , Im able to crank the contrast to 100 now with very minimal blooming ,something I could never do before (I wouldn't normally run it that bright unless im watching a movie perhaps) Im assuming this method might help with any CRT, Cya.

Hello,

While trying to adjust overscan on my 34XS955, I realized that there just doesn't seem to be any way to adjust the horizontal overscan for 4x3 sources displayed in normal screen mode. You can scroll what's in there, change the width of the 4:3 window, but there doesn't seem to be any way to open up the 4:3 display area to show more of the image.

Nitewatchman first asked the question in post #1819 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8025344&&#post8025344) , but the issue never seems to ever have been resolved.

Has anyone figured the status of this?

Thanks!

Keeneye, I believe I am looking for the same answer as you. I posted a while back but got no reply. I have read until my head is about to explode, but haven't found the answer yet. When I'm watching regular TV (NTSC) 4:3 on my 970, the 4:3 picture is to narrow almost like the 4:3 window needs to be widened to see more of the picture, but if I adjust the width, which simply streches the picture, it also changes the 16:9 and I end up with a widescreen picture that is way to wide for the screen. Seems there should be a way to adjust the 4:3 window without messing up the 16:9 picture. If anyone has a clue on this one I would appreciate help with it. My set is perfect with the exception of this one problem. Thanks,

Chris

can someone help me out the picture on my screen seems to be cut off on the left side. there a option to adjust the picture vertically but not horizontally.

Keeneye, I believe I am looking for the same answer as you.
Chris

Well, there's one thing I just realized thinking about all of this again.

On 16:9 screens, it makes perfect sense for the side pillars of normal 4:3 mode to be of a fixed width. After all, what they're meant to is to turn your 16:9 34 inches tv into a 4:3 tv of roughly 27 inches. With the tv turned off, there's just one way to mask the sides of the screen so that we're left with a 4:3 piece of screen left.

So it makes perfect sense that there is just one window width available in normal mode that gives you the proper 4:3 aspect ratio.

I was looking for something to enlarge this 4:3 window without stretching or shrinking what's in it. There isn't a need for this, as that would be a control to change the 4:3 aspect ratio or the normal window to some other ratio.

The MID2 controls actually allow stretching or shrinking the image within the 4:3 window. If you shrink things enough using the horizontal size (DRHZ) and move things horizontally using the horizontal position (DRHP) you will end up seeing more of the picture, but within the same sized 4:3 window.

If my logic is correct so far, and we cannot actually change the relative width of the 4:3 window within the 16:9 one, doesn't that mean that there's just one proper value for the horizontal size (HSIZ) value of the 2170D-2 setting?

Wouldn't the proper HSIZ value be whatever actually ends up yielding a properly sized normal 4:3 window?

keeneye & Ironkaw
I'm fairly certain that the 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 are resolution-specific, and not global. So you can use 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 to adjust your 480i 4:3 window, and that should have no effect on your 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 settings for 1080i/720p 16:9...

EDIT/ADDITION: keeneye is correct in the post above -- once you establish the size of your 4:3 "window" with 2170D-2, you can use the horizontal controls in MID2 (or I believe MID3 in the XBR970) to squish or stretch the picture within the "window" in order to maintain proper aspect ratio.

***FINAL EDIT - THIS INFORMATION IN THIS POST IS INCORRECT. PLEASE SEE POST # 2339 BELOW***

Would bypassing the MID chips for 1080i result in a better picture?
I was reading another thread about vertical bars with 1080i and it was mentioned to bypass the internal electronics and have the signal go straight to the CRT you change HDPT from 1 to 0. Would that make the picture quality better since your bypassing the MID\DRC circuts?


I can't really add anything to my earlier posts on this, but in short to recap -- all I can report is that with my set (KD34XBR960) experiments I did regarding this issue seemed to indicate the answer to your question seems to be no. In other words, it looked to me like Using a "All Zeros" MID5 Column has the same effect on image processing or any effects on picture quality (in other words turning off all MID image processing) as changing HDPT to 0. Do keep in mind there are several controls elsewhere(ones which will have seperate "PT" columns in the service code listings) which come into play when HDPT is set to "0" and likely require adjustment in order to make a good comparsion between HDPT=1 vs HDPT=0.

Update: Oh almost forgot -- and, strangely enough -- actually, on my set, I noticed those "sort of" (moving if I recall correctly) vertical bar "artifacts" were actually visable with HDPT=0 rather than HDPT=1 .... Looked similar to some sort of RFI to me ...

For more details, Search this thread for HDPT or see the HDPT related posts Ken provided links to in the "table of contents" section in the first post of this thread ...

Can anyone elaborate on how to properly adjust Focus? ,

Can't really add anything to Ken's articles/posts on adjusting focus earlier in this thread. The procedure, and use of the suggested test patterns he detailed in those posts worked great for me ... As for the "screwdriver" adjustment In my case, it was awfully difficult to say whether or not adjustment of the Focus Pot resulted in any improvement, as it was evident that the factory adjustment was awfully close to what I ended up with .....

sorry for all the posts "right together", but I had a few minutes extra time after lunch today and thought I'd do my best to "contribute" a bit ....

Anyway, Amazing how at times "simple things" can at times seem complicated to discuss here in, let's say a manner that provides for proper "comprehension" by other parties, isn't it?

There isn't a need for this, as that would be a control to change the 4:3 aspect ratio or the normal window to some other ratio.


Keep in mind, The "normal" window doesn't "set" the aspect ratio, Horizontal+vertical size controls are what effects aspect ratio, and the side bars that fill out the rest of the 16x9 "screen" are effected by the HSIZ control just as the center(the "normal" window where 480i/p 4x3 source signals are displayed) of the screen is - therefore, the horizontal overscan is "fixed" in normal mode at about 5% and can't be adjusted in the manner which is possible for the other screen modes, such as "full" mode.


The MID2 controls actually allow stretching or shrinking the image within the 4:3 window. If you shrink things enough using the horizontal size (DRHZ) and move things horizontally using the horizontal position (DRHP) you will end up seeing more of the picture, but within the same sized 4:3 window.


Well, that is sort of what I was looking for -- But, IF I recall correctly(and I may not be as this is been over six months ago since I looked for it), the MID Horizontal size controls I found which effected this only allowed you to "shrink" the image on the Right side, and one side of the screen was "squeezed" more than the other, resulting in an obviously distorted image ... I didn't go far enough to check the MID horizontal posistioning controls, as I realized at the very least a "normal" screen mode specific vertical size adjustment would be required as well ...

If it is possible to properly reduce horizontal overscan with the "normal" screen mode "4x3" window via independant adjustment of Horizontal size with MID2 controls within the "normal" window -- It would also require a "normal screen mode" specific VERTICAL size adjustment in order to preserve proper aspect ratio. That isn't available in any 2170D adjustments(neither VSIZ or ASPT has a "normal" screen mode specific vertical size adjustment), and would probably only be possible with MID2/normal/DRVS adjustment, which is not an advisable adjustment as has been noted previously in this thread.


If my logic is correct so far, and we cannot actually change the relative width of the 4:3 window within the 16:9 one, doesn't that mean that there's just one proper value for the horizontal size (HSIZ) value of the 2170D-2 setting?


The proper value for HSIZ Depends upon your Vertical size settings(adjustment of controls such as SLIN affects what is "needed" for a HSIZ value as well),[update] AND a different HSIZ value is required(and allowed/available) for "widezoom"[end update], but otherwise yes.

By the way --- I think where you say "we cannot actually change the relative width of the 4:3 window within the 16:9 one" is a really good way of saying it, I wish I would could have come up with the words to say it that way! More specifically, The problem of course is that we can't change the relative size of the pillarbars, or "sidebars", therefore(other than the possibility of "shrinking" the image size within the 4x3 window with the MID2 controls you mention) the horizontal overscan for the "4x3 window" remains fixed --- at about 5%, regardless of how you have vertical overscan set , or HSIZ set .....


Wouldn't the proper HSIZ value be whatever actually ends up yielding a properly sized normal 4:3 window?

The proper Hsiz value is whatever results in proper aspect ratio(circles are circles/etc) given the Vertical size you are using, regardless of which picture mode (Normal, Full,Zoom) you are using .... HSIZ is global, there is only a seperate setting available for "widezoom" and "others" (as in all others) ....

For example, if your overscan(in full mode) is 3%, you're going to need a lower HSIZ value than if your overscan is 5% for proper aspect ratio to result ....

[updates for clarification] In "normal" mode, you're still going to need the same VSIZ/HSIZ values as is the case in "full mode" for proper aspect ratio to result, whether you have, lets say overscan set for 3% or 5% "all around" in "full mode", but because of those "statically sized" pillar bars the horizontal overscan is still going to be ~5%, regardless of whether you have 3% or 5% vertical overscan in normal mode ...

So, to put it another way although the actual aspect ratio of the *picture*/IMAGE isn't effected(unless you have VSIZ/HSIZ set improperly, for example), the normal mode "4x3" window, is not really an exactly "4x3"(or 1.33:1) *sized* window unless you also have vertical overscan set for 5% with VSIZ, AND Horizontal overscan(in full mode) the same, at 5% .... OTOH, if you have 0% overscan(all around in "full mode"), you'll have 0% overscan at top and bottom as well as proper aspect ratio for the image(no tall and skinny people or short and fat people) but, in normal mode, 5% of the edges of the picture will *still* be hidden in by those pillar bars inserted by the "set" on the sides ....

Sorry if this is repetitive concerning last post, but (in hopes to be clear) thought I should "clarify" concerning the below :

keeneye & Ironkaw
I'm fairly certain that the 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 are resolution-specific, and not global.


I'm only aware of the specifics as they apply to my set(KD34XBR960 ) -- in which case, just as the service code charts show, Some 2170D1/D2 settings are very "global", some are more "screen mode" specific ... For instance as mentioned in last post, You can only have a "different" HSIZ value for "Widezoom" and "all others" ..... Not that you would WANT to, but You can't for example, set HSIZ to 40 for 480i 4x3 signals, and say, 50 for 480i 16x9 signals, or 40 for 480i and 42 for 1080i/etc/etc ....


So you can use 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 to adjust your 480i 4:3 window, and that should have no effect on your 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 settings for 1080i/720p 16:9... So you can use 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 to adjust your 480i 4:3 window, and that should have no effect on your 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 settings for 1080i/720p 16:9...


Well no ... Also, keep in mind, you can't "adjust" that 480i 4:3 window --- For example, HSIZ effects the "blank area" outside of the "normal" 4x3 window just as it does the "image area" within the "normal" 4x3 window ....


EDIT/ADDITION: keeneye is correct in the post above -- once you establish the size of your 4:3 "window" with 2170D-2, you can use the horizontal controls in MID2 (or I believe MID3 in the XBR970) to squish or stretch the picture within the "window" in order to maintain proper aspect ratio.

Lets see if I can put it this way .... The way its "set up" Given all MID 1~3 H/V size controls are at the "service code list/factory" defaults(again, at least on my set) --- If we take any other possible adjustments out of it --- if this makes sense --- Global, and proper adjustment(which is all you have in this case) of for example, HSIZ and VSIZ should(and does on my set) result in proper apsect ratio for BOTH Normal (for 480i/p 4x3 source signals) AND Full screen modes(any 16x9 source signal, 480i/p, 720p or 1080i)...... Of course, VSIZ+HSIZ must be adjusted properly for proper aspect ratio to result, you can't adjust one of those without "effecting" the other ....

update: Oh -- as noted earlier -- while VSIZ is completely "global"(only one setting for all screen modes/resolutions/etc) You can only set HSIZ "specifically" for 1)."widezoom", and 2. "everything else". That's because, along with other settings(such as 2170D1 UVLN/LVLN) widezoom requires a "different" value in order for the "desired"(by sony, anyway) Widezoom aspect ratio to result ... I call it "desired", as I have a hard time calling it "proper" because "widezoom" uses a non linear "stretch" mode to fill the 16x9 screen with a 4x3 source, which distorts aspect ratio more on the sides than in the center, while cutting off less of the top+bottom of screen than simply cropping off top+bottom ... Can't image why anyone would want to watch that, but I guess some folks do ...

As for "zoom" mode ... At least on my set, I did have to adjust the "Zoom(and HDzoom) mode" specific 2170D-1 ASPT settings from "43" to "52" for proper aspect ratio(AR) to result, as for example, circles were "squished" and "fat" looking with the factory default/Service code ASPT setting ... On my set, That's the only adjustment to the ASPT settings which was necessary for proper AR to result from any screen mode/etc .... Since the ASPT factory defaults matched the service code listing on my set, somehow I'm assuming(but not sure) that's the case on all of these 16x9 DA-4 chassis sets(at least ones that were manufactured around the same time as mine), and perhaps Sony maybe wanted folks to be able see a little more of the top+bottom of a 4x3 signal in Zoom mode than they did "perfectly" proper AR, but I can't say for sure, especially as I think I'm the only one to have ever commented on it here ...

As for the H+V "expansion" Zoom available for 1080i/720p signals, I've yet to come across any use for them! Since both 720p/1080i standards use perfectly square pixels, I am clueless concerning why they included this feature on a 16x9 display ??? I suppose H zoom might be useful if the signal source(such as a broadcast station) is improperly formatting video, such as sending 16x9 NTSC video and sending it "squeezed" within a 4x3 frame by "squeezing in" additional "pillar bars"(normally needed for 4x3 SD programming) within the 1080i/720p 16x9 format ... And, I have seen that happen before from a local Fox affiliate in the Pre-FOX HD "Fox High resolution Widescreen" days, but not for several years ....

Sorry for going "backwards" ...

can someone help me out the picture on my screen seems to be cut off on the left side. there a option to adjust the picture vertically but not horizontally.

2170D2 HSIZ and HPOS are the Horizontal size+Posistioning adjustments respectively, HSIZ is "global" except for "widezoom" and "all others" on my set(KD34XBR960), HPOS can be set seperately for 1080i "full Mode"(720p source signals are effected as well), and "all others". As I mentioned in earlier post(s) today, Adjustment of HSIZ also requires proper adjustment of 2170D1 VSIZ(global) for proper Aspect ratio to be preserved, there are also more "screen mode specific" vertical size settings available with 2170D1 ASPT.

For example -- the most basic explanation of a solution to the problem you described may be ---- a simple adjustment to HPOS+moving the picture to the "right" would cut off some portion of the right side of the picture, instead of the left if you push it to the right "far enough". Adjusting HPOS so the *same* amount of picture is "cut off" on both sides would then "center" the picture. Reducing HSIZ value would then make those "cut off" portions of the picture on both sides visable, on screen, and then reduction of VSIZ value by some amount would be necessary as well to preserve proper aspect ratio. Do keep in mind, the 2170D3 Horizontal blanking shutters(I'll talk about those in a more detailed response to your post farther below) will "hide" a portion of the picture as well, so in other words unless you turn those shutters off, if you reduce HSIZ enough, there's actually a portion of picture hidden "behind" a bit of black on the sides ...

Do keep in mind that some portion of the picture will be cut off with anything above 0% overscan, and that it's possible you might get slightly different "centering" results with the output from different input devices(DVD players, Satellite/cable STB's/etc/etc), or source signals(one TV's station's SD analog or digital 480i signal vs another). For me, all things considered, I'm happy with about 4~4.5% overscan on my set(well, except as mentioned above due to the normal screen mode "static" pillar bars which results in horizontal overscan at about 5% in "normal" screen mode, and for "HD Zoom", which does not seem to have a sufficent "HD zoom" specific picture size adjustments available, including in the MID settings .... )

Of course, as mentioned numerous times --- Make sure you write the default settings *down* for anything, and everything you change in Service menu(including the screen mode, input or "scan rate" specific settings), and also its a a very good idea that you have a good reference chart in front of you that for example, shows you which settings are screen mode/input or "scan rate"/etc. specific .... Personally, I probably would not even start without having such a chart in hand, as the settings in these sony sets' service mode are genearlly quite complex, and for lack of a better way of saying it, I think it really helps you to understand the "relationship" among different settings/controls/groups ...

A little more "in depth" attempt to answer to your question, follows, but you can certianly find much more and more "in depth" info relating to your question scattered throughout this thread :

I would probably start by adjusting VSIZ/HSIZ and HPOS as necessary for desired or "acceptable" overscan and proper screen centering starting with a 480i(4x3 for 4x3 sets, 16x9 pattern for 16x9 sets) source signal along with an appropriate overscan test pattern from DVD, or/and with use via some of the internal "QM" section 480i test patterns(cross hatch patterns may have some useful "markings" for you along with the cross hatch boxes to check linearity), and then if/as necessary in screen mode/scan rate independant manner adjust(carefully!) the necessary MID1~3 screen mode or resolution specific *posistioning* controls as needed for proper centering for all used inputs/scan rates, screen modes/etc .....

I also like test patterns with cross-hatch pattern and circles in different parts of the screen when doing these sorts of things to more easily check(and in some cases "measure") geometry, linearity issues -- moreso perhaps when making adjustments to the 2170D1/2 controls to adjust for screen geometry(for straight "lines") or linearity(each of the boxes in crosshatch pattern should pretty much be the same "size", horizontally and vertically) adjustments, but more specifically as it relates to what we are talking about here, to make sure proper aspect ratio is preserved ...

personally, I'd do as much as I could "globally" and in 2170D1/2, first(in which case only very small adjustments to MID1~3 *posistioning* controls should be necessary in a scan rate/input/etc. specific manner). Keep in mind, even though these should probably be needed sparingly(if at all) as well, in 2170D1 you also have available ASPT which effects Vertical size, and SCRL which effects vertical posistioning, both of those in a somewhat screen mode(or in some cases resolution dependant) specific fashion ....

Before doing any of the above, however you might also :

#1)want to make sure the raster is properly centered horizontally with 2170D2 HCNT using the procedure described earlier several times in this thread as well as in service manual - Basically, you reduce HSIZ temporarily so you can see the "true" edges of the raster .... don't forget to temporarily "turn off" the Horizontal blanking shutters in 2170D3 (Hblk to 0, temporarily) and temporarily set 2170P2 AGNG to "1" to also ensure you're actually seeing the "true" edges of raster while your centering or checking it's centering! FWIW, which isn't much - HCNT was adjusted properly for centering the raster at the factory on my set, and also, FWIW - *caution* -- on my set, adjustment of HCNT *does* effect H linearity and screen geometry to a certian extent as well - so, if you need to adjust HCNT it, it's possible other 2170D1/2 settings involving screen geometry may need some adjustment for best results as well ..

#2) Make sure VPOS is properly adjusted for screen centering .. Do note there is no seperate raster/"picture" adjustment for Vertical posistioning as is the case with HCNT/HPOS, and you might also want to be careful here(and with vertical size/overscan adjustments as well) concerning SD signals from broadcast/cable sources with the line 21 closed captioning/data/etc. embedded in the "top" part of the frame. NOTE: Also, As noted earlier, at least on my set, I've observed adjustment of VPOS does effect screen geometry slightly, in a manner somewhat similar to how 2170D2 PPHA effects geometry ... Luckily, however, as was the case with HCNT, on my set, VPOS seemed to be properly adjusted at the factory ....

Concerning #1 and #2 above --- Especially if you are reducing overscan, some adjustment to the "blanking shutters" in 2170D3 may be necessary (Horizontal : LBLK/RBLK, Vertical : TBLK/BBLK) - Those are there to keep light from electron beam from striking edge of tube and causing reflections on screen, 2170D3 HBLK=0 turns "off" the horizontal blanking shutters completely, as does 2170D3 VBLK=0 for the vertical blanking shutters ... Again, of course, you'll want the blanking shutters "off" when centering the raster .... Once you have overscan set as desired, you'll want those shutters "active" only a bit beyond(a few extra "ticks" or so in LBLK/RBLK or TBLK/BBLK) the edge of the visable portion of the screen ... you don't of course want the shutters to "blank" any portion of the visable screen, or to "fool you" into thinking the edge of the "picture" is somewhere where it isn't ...

Hope something in there helps ;)

keeneye & Ironkaw
I'm fairly certain that the 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 are resolution-specific, and not global. So you can use 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 to adjust your 480i 4:3 window, and that should have no effect on your 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 settings for 1080i/720p 16:9...

EDIT/ADDITION: keeneye is correct in the post above -- once you establish the size of your 4:3 "window" with 2170D-2, you can use the horizontal controls in MID2 (or I believe MID3 in the XBR970) to squish or stretch the picture within the "window" in order to maintain proper aspect ratio.
I'm quoting my own previous post, to let you all know that the information I gave is false. I hope nobody has followed my advice and made a mistake. 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 ARE global, like Nitewatchman said, and NOT resolution-specific like I indicated earlier. And what was I talking about MID3? There's no horizontal controls in MID3.

I guess that's what I get for posting from work instead of going home and consulting my notes before posting. I apologize for the misinformation.

SERVICE MENU ADJUSTMENTS SHOULD ONLY BE MADE BY QUALIFIED TECHNICIANS. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. WRITE DOWN ALL "FACTORY" SETTINGS BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY CHANGES TO ANY SETTING IN THE SERVICE MENU.

Note: These instructions assume that you've already made picture size and geometry adjustments with 2170D-1, 2170D-2, and the "shutters" adjustments with 2170D-3. Your TV is *almost* just like you want it, except for the fact that your 4:3 "window" seems to be the wrong size - your "black bars" are too big (or too small).

This is the only way that I know to increase the size of the 4:3 "window" (and decrease the size of the 4:3 "black bars") on a 34XBR970. It should also work on the other sets (34XBR960, 34XS955, 34HS420, etc.). This procedure involves changing MID2 horizontal size values, which is not an official recommended procedure. The service manual recommends that geometry and size adjustments be made with 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 ONLY. The service manual does not say to make any changes to MID2 when adjusting picture size. However, I think this is the only way to change the 4:3 window size, and I don't notice any decrease in picture quality or resolution as a result of making these changes. Personally, I can't imagine why Sony would make the MID2 settings adjustable if you're not actually supposed to be able to change them in the first place, but that's another matter. I doubt any problems can be caused by changing the MID2 values.

Anyway, here goes. This will take some time...

1) Adjust vertical size / position / overscan using 2170D-1. Do not use any MID controls to adjust the size of the image vertically. Vertical size adjustments with MID controls have an adverse effect on picture quality, as has been outlined elsewhere in this thread.

2) With a 480i 4:3 cross-hatch test pattern on the screen, use HSIZ in 2170D-2 to increase or decrease the size of the 4:3 window until it is the desired size. Use a tape measure to be sure that you have a mathematically correct 4:3 window. Use HPOS to center the window. Since these are global settings, they will also affect the horizontal size and position of your 16:9 1080i/720p picture, as well as all of your inputs. (You'll fix these individually in step #5 below, but first we'll finish adjusting your 480i 4:3 window).

3) With the MID2 horizontal settings, adjust the size and position of the image so you have the proper amount of overscan (it should match the amount of overscan you have on the top and bottom of the screen). This will not move or change the size of the black bars, but it will squish or stretch the image within the 4:3 window. A cross-hatch test pattern is important here, because that's really the only way to know for sure that you've got the correct aspect ratio. These MID2 horizontal setting values on the 34XBR970 are DHHP (horizontal position) and DHHS (horizontal size), but the other sets have different names for these MID2 settings.

This completes the adjustment of the 4:3 window, which should now be exactly like you want it.

4) Now put a 16:9 (1080i or 720p) image on the screen, and adjust the 2170D-3 horizontal shutters (LBLK & RBLK) so they're *just barely* off the edge of the screen.

5) Now comes the fun part. When you made the 2170D-2 adjustments in step #2 above, you adjusted a global setting, which had an adverse effect on the horizontal size and position of your 16:9 1080i/720p picture (as well as your 480p picture, and all your other inputs and resolutions). These each now need to be adjusted individually, again with the MID2 horizontal controls. With a 1080i 16:9 test pattern on the screen, adjust the MID2 horizontal controls to give the correct amount of overscan (just like you did in step #3). Once you're satisfied with your 1080i overscan, put a 720p 16:9 pattern on the screen, and do the same MID2 horizontal control adjustments. Then put up a 480p test pattern and do the same MID2 adjustments. Then switch to another input and do 1080i, 720p, 480i, 480p, then do another input.

6) Finally, eventually, you'll be finished. All that work just to fix a minor annoyance with the size of your 4:3 window...

I'm quoting my own previous post .... 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 ARE global ...


You're the man! Seriously -- .. Both concerning your "stepping up to the plate" on this, and, also, I've read a number of your posts(including in other threads), and appreciate your work+efforts as I think you have provided much excellent info for folks .....

Certianly, I think we must do our best to post accurate info here, but We *all* make mistakes, *everyone* does -- it's NOT a big deal, really, at least as far as I'm concerned ... And, it's not as if we are getting a paycheck for it ;)

I for one certianly appreciate when my mistakes, or any unintended inaccurate info I might provide are corrected .... Well, usually ... after all, noone likes a smart *ss, and unfortunetly I perceive I may have come across looking like one of those every now and then(probably moreso elsewhere than on this thread, but I don't know) even though that was never my intent, I certianly also hope it didn't come out that way in this case ....


.... posting from work instead of going home and consulting my notes before posting.


Oh, I know where you're coming from, there ... For example, in the very posts of mine you referred to I had to go back and make several corrections, even though I had a PDF with the service code chart open right in front of me! (For instance, I had originally posted HSIZ/HPOS was 2170D2 instead of 2170D1, and I'd also noticed typos where I meant to refer to "BBLK" but typed "VBLK" instead etc, and it's certianly possible there are still some mistakes in there!

Can't speak for anyone else, but, for me, It really does at times, take a LOT of time and effort to discuss+post as accurately as possible about some of this stuff, and/or in some cases to "verify" comments/posts with actual experimentation/testing -- I recall Ken making a comment once via PM, and his word for it was "exhausting", which, at times I've also found to be an accurate assesment ..

Which is one reason why I think most folks really aren't being *nasty* when they say "search this thread"/etc. in regards to questions or comments which have been went over time and time again on earlier occasions ..... And, in this case, we even have a nice "table of contents" to refer to in the first post!

OTOH --- I also agree with Gribble's recent comments regarding: If this thread is to be useful, it has to keep going, and be "available" for folks who want to post new questions/comments ...

One reason why that is true is because if it isn't posted to for a certian period of time(probably 6 months or a year or so), it will likely go to the archive section, in which case it will likely still be accessable in some shape or form, but if I recall correctly with all the referenced links to specific posts probably broken ....

Basically, though, when possible, personally I Just happen to think it's best if folks do their best to research, "decipher" and search for the stuff they are looking for in all the posts which have come before in this thread, first before asking questions/making comments ..... I realize that's a bit of a "tall order" I've went through it myself, and it can get *very* confusing at times --- and, some of it can certianly be difficult to decipher and come out with the "right answers", but oftentimes it's the "back and forth" between folks which I think *can* and does make it more comprehensible ....

Ok, blah blah blah, Yadda yadda yadda, enough of that ...

Anyway, here goes. This will take some time...


Excellent post! Suppose to some extent, I also have to eat a little "crow" concerning some of my earlier posts from yesterday on this ... Went to try to pull some of that out and "quote myself", but it didn't work out very well given the context involved, so I'll attempt to address that, hopefully in a sufficent way with additional comments in this post ...

Specifically and most notably perhaps, where I mentioned I thought some sort of independant "vertical size" adjustment for "normal" screen mode would be necessary along with H-size adjustment in MID3 ... I was of course also wrong about how I "remembered" the MID2 480i DRHS Horizontal size control worked (which I did note at the time was possible) ....


This is the only way that I know to increase the size of the 4:3 "window" (and decrease the size of the 4:3 "black bars") on a 34XBR970.


You're right .. I Studied the procedure you detail, and tried some quick experiments with it in the SM, and I think it should work to effectively, "independently" increase size of the "4x3 window"/decrease the size of the pillarbars on the 16x9 DA-4 chassis sets, while still having a way to preserve proper aspect ratio for all of the "screen modes" and resolutions ... I didn't go as far as experimenting with it yet, but I suspect it might get a little more tricky to properly adjust the MID H-Size controls for the twin-view/index/etc. features on the models equipped with those ...

I suppose I was also a little too "persistant" in earlier posts concerning my thoughts about not being able to "adjust" the size of the 4x3 "window" or "reduce" the width of the pillar bars while at the same time preserving proper aspect ratio for all screen modes/etc, and perhaps I have to eat a little crow for that as well ... However, not that it's really necesssary, but just "for the record", I mentioned it a few times in a couple of different responses, and should pointout as I hoped was apparent I was referring in each case to the situation withthe MID2 H-size adjustments "out of the picture" ... while I did specifically state that was the case on one occasion, I wasn't specific about that on every occasion I brought it up ....

Also, Unless there's something else we haven't found yet(which I doubt, but I've been wrong before), I think you're right ... That *has* to be the only way ...


Personally, I can't imagine why Sony would make the MID2 settings adjustable if you're not actually supposed to be able to change them in the first place,


Well ... Keep in mind I'm not necessarily specifically addressing the MID2 settings here, but I don't think a number of these SM settings are necessarily "supposed" to be adjusted(including by qualified service technicians) as far as Sony's intent was concerned, just because they happen to be there and "adjustable" ...

For instance, there are certianly (at least) several settings you can adjust within SM to a very "undesirable" value, if you're not careful, to the point you can't "adjust them" to even be able to "see" what's on the screen (including the SM "info" display) to be able to adjust them back so your set will "work" .. Take "RGBS=0" for example ... IF you were to accidently "Write" the RGBS=0 value, and inadvertenly move to somewhere else within SM, and not be able to "get back" to RGBS with the appropriate Key presses .... That's a problem, since RGBS=0 turns ALL THREE guns off, and all you have, truly is a "blank screen" ... It's also not too difficult to find adjustments of settings/values which will result in loss of sync, and nothing but a "garbled mess" on the screen .....

Another one ...2171CXA FIXS ... Ok, it doesn't necessarily allways "garble" the entire screen, but adjusting this to a value other than the *exact* value required for the specific resolution/input involved certianly doesn't provide anything useful ... This is perhaps a good example, I think as it demonstrates that it's probably not there for "adjustment" purposes, and instead, I would speculate is likely there only because different values are necessary for different resolutions/input sources, even though one would think this sort of thing could be (for lack of a better description that comes to mind) "hard-coded" in a sense ....

As I seem to recall, there are also even other "worse" examples, but, at present I can't seem to recall the specifics involved in a sufficent manner ..

What I'm saying more than anything else here is ... I think you are wise to include the cautions in your post as you did, as we really just don't have any detailed, good info from Sony(or anyone else) concerning all of what is exactly involved concerning what some of these controls do, or what their *intention* was regarding adjustments/etc. of these controls ... OTOH, we have a great deal of info for many settings without much real help from Sony, and also know those are "safe" adjustments .. As one example, thanks to a few folks on this thread(Ken and ADU come to mind), concerning say, the many adjustments available with MID5 and P21703 "image processing" controls ...

Also, concerning those MID H-size adjustments ... while I trust gribble's word, (and in some cases others who have commented on it) concerning his "comparisions" with 2 sets sitting side by side regarding adjustment of MID Horizontal size controls and lack of any noticable degradation of Picture quality(I assume he tested that with appropriate test patterns, and different scan rates/etc?) ... I also realize it's the best info we have on the subject, and I still think, at this point mostly regarding Ken's findings on this as it pertains to MID *vertical* size adjustments, specifically, its probably a good idea to be "cautious"+for folks to fully understand and carefully consider whether or not it's "worth it", or necessary or desired to make this(these)adjustments to the size controls .... At least in regards to "public" discussion of it on a forum such as this, as, you may have noticed by now, it's not all that difficult for folks to become "confused" about such things .... Especially perhaps those folks who may only be reading the last several posts of the thread .... Again, as I've posted previously, in this case not because it's something that's likely to "damage" anyone's set, or cause problems in that sense ....


I doubt any problems can be caused by changing the MID2 values.


I don't really consider this as a "problem", but Believe it or not -- oddly enough I noticed an inital, quick adjustment of MID2 DRHS (Horizontal size adjustment) by about 10~12 clicks or so(480i via RF input) in fact *did* in fact cause my set to lose sync -- in other words to cause just a jumbled "mess" of "junk" to appear on screen .... it was no problem to "move it back" using the "3" key and regain proper sync, but perhaps it might be wise to do that "slowly" ... Don't know what was up with that, but I could not reproduce the issue(I didn't try very hard or spend much time on it, either, however)


3) With the MID2 horizontal settings, adjust the size and position of the image ........ These MID2 horizontal setting values on the 34XBR970 are DHHP (horizontal position) and DHHS (horizontal size), but the other sets have different names for these MID2 settings.


Yep ... I tried it ... Again, I was wrong/remembered that one wrong in my last post ... Seems to work nicely for this .. They're MID2 DRHP/DRHS on my XBR960, btw ...


5) Now comes the fun part. When you made the 2170D-2 adjustments in step #2 above, you adjusted a global setting, which had an adverse effect on the horizontal size and position of your 16:9 1080i/720p picture (as well as your 480p picture, and all your other inputs and resolutions). These each now need to be adjusted individually, again with the MID2 horizontal controls. With a 1080i 16:9 test pattern on the screen, adjust the MID2 horizontal controls to give the correct amount of overscan (just like you did in step #3). Once you're satisfied with your 1080i overscan, put a 720p 16:9 pattern on the screen, and do the same MID2 horizontal control adjustments. Then put up a 480p test pattern and do the same MID2 adjustments. Then switch to another input and do 1080i, 720p, 480i, 480p, then do another input.


Well, on KD34XBR960 at least, the 480p 16x9/720p/1080i MID3 Horizontal size/posistioning adjustments are actually located in MID3 -- Not sure if you had a typo there, or if it's different on the XBR970 ...


(from #5) - as well as your 480p picture, and all your other inputs and resolutions).


Of course -- I don't think you mentioned it, but (again, on XBR960 at least) there are input specific adjustments for 480i source signals and "normal" screen mode in MID2 .... for :

480i V5/V6 - Component inputs.

YC - (note: from previous adjustments I had made for DRHP on my set, I believe this one includes NTSC signals from S-video, composiste AND the RF input),

480i HDMI/ATSC - note - HDMI from the HDMI input, and of course "ATSC" actually refers to digital TV received(well MPEG2 streams to be more specific) via the set's internal ATSC/QAM receiver, with antenna or cable connected to the "RF" inputs on back of the set ... even the service code charts from sony can be cryptic confusing at times!

-----------------

Also, hopefully this isn't too "repetitive" as I mentioned it, earlier, but for sets so equipped, I believe one would likely also have to adjust the MID Horizontal ize adjustment controls for "twin-view"/"index"/"favorities/freeze" features etc, which could be a little more tricky than the other "standard" screen modes(which all fit under the adjustments listed in the service code chart as "single" BTW)... I haven't tried it yet, but given that for instance, the two "twin view" windows each only occupy certian "portions" of the screen, adjustment with test patterns for proper aspect ratio/overscan becomes more difficult .... If I'm thinking about it correctly, however, I think it would still "work", you'd just be looking at "smaller" cross-hatch patterns and or "circles"/etc ...

Also -- regarding all those Twin-view/etc. features -- You have a LOT more adjustments to deal with, including apparently in a "source signal resolution dependant manner"(and for example, I actually do use Twin View quite a bit, so I'd need to adjust those for proper AR, and I'd probably want to do all those other "features" as well, as I do use most of them occasionally) --- hearas, If you take a "hands off" of MID size controls "approach", no such indpendent adjustments are necessary ... proper aspect ratio+overscan(except that slight input/scan rate specific MID adjustments may be necessary in some cases for proper centering) equivilent to your other "single" screen modes results for all those "features" with everything else) with a single adjustment to the much more "global" HSIZ and VSIZ 2170D adjustments .... Well, as I probably repeated too many times, yesterday, that's actually 2 adjustments needed for HSIZ, one for "widezoom" and one for "all others" ....


6) Finally, eventually, you'll be finished. All that work just to fix a minor annoyance with the size of your 4:3 window...

Again nice work on this! I do really appreciate someone has properly addressed my comments/questions on this from last summer, and in short, found a way to do what I was looking for at the time!

Should probably note however that For me right now, the extra ".5%~1" horizontal overscan in "normal" mode caused by the "side bars" hiding the edges of the pic is not quite "annoying enough" for me to go to all that work, and add in some small reservation about adjusting MID2 horizontal size controls(more because it generally seems unnessary given the "work" involved for as you say "small" annoyances), and it might not be in any case ...

However ... should probably also explain -- The reason why it was a little more of an annoyance 6 months ago was, the right side of ID bugs for SD digital services (subchannels) from one of my local PBS affilaites were getting "cut off" given the way they were placing them ... For instance, one of those bugs says "ThinkTV 16 Prime" .... A portion of the "e" was cut off, and for some reason, it was more annoying for me than one might expect ... They have since adjusted the placement of those graphics so that they are all within the 5% "safe area" commonly observed by broadcasters, so I have no current reason for it to be a "significant enough" annoyance ... Of course, OTOH it's also probably not too difficult to come aross such "annoyances" If you look closely enough for them ....

In any case, I'm sure there are others who probably do have "significant enough" annoyances to the extent I'm sure your work on this will also be much appreciated ...

My that post was long! Sorry about that, probably a lot of spelling errors as well, sorry didn't get around to the "spell check" ... It's too early AM for me to be doing this!

G-Bull, While I really appreciate your info, I already tried that on my 970, and it won't work for me. I can adjust the 4:3 window on normal TV, but then my 1080i 16:9 is way too wide, and I can't tweek the mid2 adjustments to compensate, because after only a few steps, the picture goes out of sync, and it is just a bunch of garbage on the screen. My NTSC 4:3 TV picture is already wide enough, the problem is that the masking bars are covering up too much of it. If I put a full screen 4:3 movie in my DVD, it plays fine because the DVD player is sending the 4:3 picture with the masking bars to the set as a wide screen image, but when I watch broadcast 4:3 NTSC TV, the set adds the masking bars, and they aren't set right. The just simply cover up way too much of the picture. Actually over 2 inches too much on each side. What you say would make sense to me if there was a way to widen the 16:9 mode independent of the 4:3 mode, but on my set if I use MID2 to widen it more than a couple steps, the screen goes crazy, so it's not an option. I just need to open up that fricking 4:3 window to see the picture that is already wide enough to start with. If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know. Thanks alot.

Chris

Wow, does reading this thread give anyone else a terrible headache? Ugh. I won't trouble you guys with my problems just yet. I've seen the same questions I have crop up in my searching (although everytime someone says "This has been answered many times before elsewhere"), so I'll try to work this out on my own first.

A quickie though: after futzing around in the 2170D-1 and 2 with the global (wish I had known they were global at the time :() settings, I fixed my overscan problems. Now, however, the bottom half inch of the screen is very blurry. Everything slants from bottom left to top right at a 45 degree angle (think forward slash on your keyboard) across the bottom of my screen within that half inch area.

Any ideas what setting I should look at to fix this? Should I just position that part off screen?

Wow, does reading this thread give anyone else a terrible headache? Ugh. I won't trouble you guys with my problems just yet. I've seen the same questions I have crop up in my searching (although everytime someone says "This has been answered many times before elsewhere"), so I'll try to work this out on my own first.

A quickie though: after futzing around in the 2170D-1 and 2 with the global (wish I had known they were global at the time :() settings, I fixed my overscan problems. Now, however, the bottom half inch of the screen is very blurry. Everything slants from bottom left to top right at a 45 degree angle (think forward slash on your keyboard) across the bottom of my screen within that half inch area.

Any ideas what setting I should look at to fix this? Should I just position that part off screen?

Searching this thread for the word "slant" might be an idea...!

Searching this thread for the word "slant" might be an idea...!

That returns 4 hits, one of which was your post. I'm now going to look into blanking or overscan to fix it, which is what I suggested myself.

I guess you've been reading this thread for a while, and are tired of people asking the same questions over and over, but this is hard stuff for the uninitiated.

Half the time I read about a problem that I have as well, but don't understand the explanation, and the other half someone like you chimes in with a helpful "search!" or "this has been answered before!".

Wow, does reading this thread give anyone else a terrible headache? Ugh. I won't trouble you guys with my problems just yet. I've seen the same questions I have crop up in my searching (although everytime someone says "This has been answered many times before elsewhere"), so I'll try to work this out on my own first.

A quickie though: after futzing around in the 2170D-1 and 2 with the global (wish I had known they were global at the time :() settings, I fixed my overscan problems. Now, however, the bottom half inch of the screen is very blurry. Everything slants from bottom left to top right at a 45 degree angle (think forward slash on your keyboard) across the bottom of my screen within that half inch area.

Any ideas what setting I should look at to fix this? Should I just position that part off screen?
Look for a setting called PSTP in the group MID3 of the service menu. That should fix it.

Look for a setting called PSTP in the group MID3 of the service menu. That should fix it.

Thanks G-Bull :).

There's a really great attachment in post #409, which is an old service manual. It goes through a list of what to adjust, and what it does, with great illustrations. I think all of the categories have changed for the newer TVs, or at least they're different on my 970, but it should help any other newbies like me.

I think I'm going to go through this weekend and try to find some test patterns, and try to get everything looking decent.

Maybe you could give me your opinion on my plan. I had bad overscan issues with my PS3 (basically any signal in 720p or 1080i over component or hdmi). I fixed it using the global settings in 2170D-1 and 2, but then realized that my Wii (480p over component) had too little overscan.

I plan to revert my global settings back to their defaults, and then adjust geometry and postition through MID-1, 2 or 3 (not sure what it is on the 970). I will locate a 1080i test pattern, which I will probably have to display using my upconverting Oppo over HDMI. Then I will repeat using a 720p/i test pattern, also displayed over my Oppo.

I know there's more I could be doing, but this is where I plan to start. The overscan issues are pretty bad, so after I get them fixed, I can see where I stand and make a new plan.

G-Bull, While I really appreciate your info, I already tried that on my 970, and it won't work for me. I can adjust the 4:3 window on normal TV, but then my 1080i 16:9 is way too wide, and I can't tweek the mid2 adjustments to compensate, because after only a few steps, the picture goes out of sync, and it is just a bunch of garbage on the screen. My NTSC 4:3 TV picture is already wide enough, the problem is that the masking bars are covering up too much of it. If I put a full screen 4:3 movie in my DVD, it plays fine because the DVD player is sending the 4:3 picture with the masking bars to the set as a wide screen image, but when I watch broadcast 4:3 NTSC TV, the set adds the masking bars, and they aren't set right. The just simply cover up way too much of the picture. Actually over 2 inches too much on each side. What you say would make sense to me if there was a way to widen the 16:9 mode independent of the 4:3 mode, but on my set if I use MID2 to widen it more than a couple steps, the screen goes crazy, so it's not an option. I just need to open up that fricking 4:3 window to see the picture that is already wide enough to start with. If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know. Thanks alot.

Chris
Hi Chris. If I'm understanding you correctly, the procedure I outlined would work "in theory," but in actual practice the MID2 horizontal size settings won't let you change the size of the image enough before it goes out-of-sync. If I recall (and again, I don't have my notes with me this morning so this is from memory), there's actually another horizontal size setting in MID1 - I don't remember the exact name but it follows the format <letter><letter>HS for Horizontal Size.

I think if you make a change to that MID1 setting (reduce by maybe ten clicks), it will free up enough "wiggle room" so that you can follow my previous instructions and fine-tune with the MID2 to get it just right.

Also, if I recall correctly, this MID1 horizontal size setting is a global setting, and not an input-and-resolution-specific setting. But like I said I don't have my notes with me.

Good luck! And, of course, be sure you write everything down first so if you have to put everything "back" you can!

Edit: The MID1 setting I referred to is MDHS. According to my notes, it's not exactly a global setting, but the changes made under each resolution (1080i/720p, 480p, 480i, 480i "full," etc.) will stick for that resolution for all the inputs. So a change made to this setting at 1080i on the HDMI input will also change 1080i for the component inputs, etc., but it won't affect the setting for 480i. Each resolution will have to be set individually.

Thanks G-Bull :).

There's a really great attachment in post #409, which is an old service manual. It goes through a list of what to adjust, and what it does, with great illustrations. I think all of the categories have changed for the newer TVs, or at least they're different on my 970, but it should help any other newbies like me.

I think I'm going to go through this weekend and try to find some test patterns, and try to get everything looking decent.

Maybe you could give me your opinion on my plan. I had bad overscan issues with my PS3 (basically any signal in 720p or 1080i over component or hdmi). I fixed it using the global settings in 2170D-1 and 2, but then realized that my Wii (480p over component) had too little overscan.

I plan to revert my global settings back to their defaults, and then adjust geometry and postition through MID-1, 2 or 3 (not sure what it is on the 970). I will locate a 1080i test pattern, which I will probably have to display using my upconverting Oppo over HDMI. Then I will repeat using a 720p/i test pattern, also displayed over my Oppo.

I know there's more I could be doing, but this is where I plan to start. The overscan issues are pretty bad, so after I get them fixed, I can see where I stand and make a new plan.
2170D-1 and 2170D-2 (and 2170D-3) are probably the most important settings of all. All of the geometry adjustments can only be made with these settings. By "geometry" I mean making straight lines straight, reducing bowing, pincushion, curving lines, etc. MID2 can be used only to adjust size and position, but none of the essential geometry adjustments.

I suggest you make your primary adjustments with the 2170D global settings. Set it up with some overscan, because broadcast TV (and apparently the Wii) require some overscan. Personally, I have mine set to about 3% overscan. Some people like 5%, which is too much for my taste, and some people like 1%, but I like 3%. That's entirely up to you. Then, once you have your global settings "right," switch to your PS3 input and use MID2 size and position settings to reduce overscan for that input and resolution to near-0%.

That's essentially the plan I've followed when I set up my XBR970. I have an xbox360, so I've run into the same sort of problems you're getting with overscan and your PS3. I say it's "essentially" the plan I followed, because I also did the "resizing the 4:3 window" procedure that I outlined a few posts back. But I'd call that an "advanced" procedure, since it affects a lot of things, and involves a lot of adjustments.

Also, depending on your PC video card, you might be able to hook your PC up to your TV, and use that for test patterns, rather than your DVD player. My video card uses a DVI output, so I went to radio shack and bought a DVI to HDMI adapter and use that. That way I can change resolution to 1080i or 720p or 480p easily to make adjustments.

Remember, most importantly, write everything down first, before you go changing things. And while some settings are global, some of the settings are input- and resolution-specific, so you'll have to write down the settings for everything you're chaning (the HDMI input at 1080i will have different values than HDMI input at 720p, which will have different values than the component inputs, etc.). So write down EVERYTHING that you change, just in case you have to put something back to how it was before you started messing with it.

Good luck!

Okay, awesome. I know have a much better understanding of what I need to be doing. When you talk about % overscan, I assume that is a label on certain test patterns?

Okay, awesome. I know have a much better understanding of what I need to be doing. When you talk about % overscan, I assume that is a label on certain test patterns?
Yes, there are test patterns made specifically for testing (and adjusting) overscan, that have lines at various percentages. For example, the test pattern will be a 1920x1080 image (which is a 16:9 1080i image), and there will be a box like a border that goes around the pattern, where 95% of the image is within the border and 5% is outside the border. So if you use this pattern and adjust your screen so that border is just at the edge of your screen, you know that 5% is getting "cut off" all around your screen.

Most have more than one box or border, which are labeled 1%, 3%, 5%, etc. so you can decide how much you want to overscan.

If I used test patterns from Avia and DVE, and displayed them through my Oppo upconverted to 1080i, would that work? Or would I need to find a "true" 1080i test pattern?

If I used test patterns from Avia and DVE, and displayed them through my Oppo upconverted to 1080i, would that work? Or would I need to find a "true" 1080i test pattern?
The upconverting DVD player should work just fine. I'm not sure what patterns are on those discs, but as long as they've got one with marks for checking overscan, you'll be set.

Doesn't the PS3 play DVDs? If so you could use one of those test discs in the PS3 when you're adjusting for your PS3 input...

Doesn't the PS3 play DVDs? If so you could use one of those test discs in the PS3 when you're adjusting for your PS3 input...

It does, but it doesn't upconvert, so the test image would be displayed at 480p. I figure the Oppo hooked up using the same HDMI input the PS3 uses would be needed, since some of these controls depend on the signal (1080i, 720, etc).

I think.

It does, but it doesn't upconvert, so the test image would be displayed at 480p. I figure the Oppo hooked up using the same HDMI input the PS3 uses would be needed, since some of these controls depend on the signal (1080i, 720, etc).

I think.
Yes, if you use MID2 to adjust the size for the PS3 input, you'll need to have a source that matches the PS3 games (which I suppose would be 1080i).

Say, if you go with what I suggested earlier, and do your preliminary geometry and overscan adjustments with 2170D, and only change MID2 when you have to in order to reduce the overscan for the PS3 input, you will need a geometry & overscan test pattern for the 2170D adjustments. But you don't necessarily even need a test pattern for that final step with MID2 - since the goal is to have as much of the PS3 image as possible on the screen, you might just want to use a PS3 game or "desktop" (or whatever Sony calls it on the PS3) and adjust it so the edge of the image is just at (or just barely past) the edge of the screen. Since all MID2 does is change size and position, you don't necessarily need to even have a test pattern up, since when you're using MID2 on your PS3 input you'll be shooting for near-0% overscan (so you see the whole image).

Say, if you go with what I suggested earlier, and do your preliminary geometry and overscan adjustments with 2170D, and only change MID2 when you have to in order to reduce the overscan for the PS3 input, you will need a geometry & overscan test pattern for the 2170D adjustments. But you don't necessarily even need a test pattern for that final step with MID2 - since the goal is to have as much of the PS3 image as possible on the screen, you might just want to use a PS3 game or "desktop" (or whatever Sony calls it on the PS3) and adjust it so the edge of the image is just at (or just barely past) the edge of the screen. Since all MID2 does is change size and position, you don't necessarily need to even have a test pattern up, since when you're using MID2 on your PS3 input you'll be shooting for near-0% overscan (so you see the whole image).

That's a very good point. If I correct the geometry in 2170D menus, that should correct the geometry over ALL inputs (right?), leaving only size and position to be corrected on a by input basis.

Which, as you suggested, I could easily do in the PSP XMB (home screen @ 1080i) and a game (720p).

Thanks G-Bull, you're my hero ;).

Hello all. I'm a proud owner of a 30xs955. Its been really great so far but one problem that has been bugging me is the amount of overscan. I have only two things hooked up to the tv. An Oppo dvd player via hdmi and set to 480p and a xbox 360 set to 1080i via component. This thread can be rather daunting to a newb such as myself. What specifically do I need to go to in the service menu to adjust for overscan on these two items? Is there a way to adjust overscan without screwing up geometry? Thanks for your help

Look to Post #3 in this thread for how to access and navigate the SM. Then go to post #421 for overscan, which will also give a pointer for further info.

Hello Folks,

I've been trying to adjust the Pincushioning on my XBR970 and I never seem to get uniformed vertical lines throughout the screen. If I'm successful with straightening the far sides of the screen, I have too much hourglass in the middle. If I get the middle straight, then the edges are too rounded. The control of these settings remind me of manipulating Bezier curves in a CAD drafting software package. One setting has a lot of influence on previous settings and it can drive you a little nutz trying to fine tune this in small steps. Is there a sequence you should set MPIN, PIN, UCP, and LCP? Or is there one setting that should be more predominate for course setting and others for fine tuning? Or is this just a widescreen CRT limitation with vertical lines not being parrallel across the whole screen?


Thanks

Extremely new at this.

Week and a half ago, picture developed significant pincushion problem (albeit not equal) that was never evident on tv for almost 4 years. There has not been any change in associated equipment etc. Only change was new stand and very gentle moving of behemoth 206 lb tv. Although pincushion is inward, there is an exaggerated slight bow further increase inwards just below upper corners. This is evident only when in letterboxing is present. Plus some geometrical issues with size of left and right letterboxing is also evedint.

Both HD and standard channels as well as on DVD with both component and DVI inputs. Although there are a lot of postings on service menu etc. Is this more likely a hardware issue?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

As well there is a persistant aggrevation of evident fixed horizontal lines with two being lower in the television and one higher up sort of like this. Understand these are apperatures...can this be reduced in terms of visibility.

___________

___________
___________

Thanks in advance...

Extremely new at this.

Week and a half ago, picture developed significant pincushion problem (albeit not equal) that was never evident on tv for almost 4 years. There has not been any change in associated equipment etc. Only change was new stand and very gentle moving of behemoth 206 lb tv. Although pincushion is inward, there is an exaggerated slight bow further increase inwards just below upper corners. This is evident only when in letterboxing is present. Plus some geometrical issues with size of left and right letterboxing is also evedint.

Both HD and standard channels as well as on DVD with both component and DVI inputs. Although there are a lot of postings on service menu etc. Is this more likely a hardware issue?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

As well there is a persistant aggrevation of evident fixed horizontal lines with two being lower in the television and one higher up sort of like this. Understand these are apperatures...can this be reduced in terms of visibility.

___________

___________
___________

Thanks in advance...If all of this happened immediately after moving the set, I would guess the move broke or shifted something in/on the tube. Did you move it while warm? The other possibility is that unplugging the set somehow reset your sevice menu. BTW, that's not supposed to happen, and I have unplugged my HS510 many times with no such consequences.

The three horizontal lines are aperture grill support wires. They should only be barely visible when brightness(black level) and picture (contrast/white level) are set correctly.

Thanks raouliii

Actually this was not right after moving of set. about a week later...hopefully just a coincidence. As well again only with letterboxing, no visible picture problems with zooms etc. Have tried unplugging...turning off and on etc. for past week. No luck!!!!

really troublesome.

The problem I have in setting the 4:3 image correctly on my set is that the MID 1, 2, and 3 groups of codes are COMPLETELY different from the ones in the service manuals listed here for the 34xs955.

So I really have no idea what the "correct" values are for my set.

For instance, my MID2 0-3 codes are not DRxx values but are DHxx values.

The MID3 group starts with something labeled YCPO instead of VDHP.

I think my model is from 2004

A long time ago, Ken posted warnings about adjusting MID levels and how that would degrade the picture. Anyone know how much degredation? Anyone know how to keep the proper ratios?

And this may be of some help to other post I have seen; as I understand it, when you receive a 1080 signal from an OTB and the pic does not fill the entire screen, the "side" bars will be smaller than if you receive a 480i signal.

P

So I'm the idiot that doesn't listen.....

Anyways, let's just say HAD to reset the factory settings on my KV-36HS510, now my Video 5-7 (Component inputs) don't work and mostly static/sometimes flash red. Vidoe 1 hooked up through regular rca's looks fine. Anyone know which stting needs to get fixed? Any help would be appreciated.

Can't seem to edit the last post so...

Edit: Ok, I can be more specific, I somehow did the 7-9-enter thing thinking that would restore the factory defaults. Obviously not. Anyways, after that, I did restore the defaults BUT whatever it did to the HD inputs, it did not reverse. Basically the set doesn't know how to do HD signals after releasing the NVM data. I think that's what happened, at least...

Can't seem to edit the last post so...

Edit: Ok, I can be more specific, I somehow did the 7-9-enter thing thinking that would restore the factory defaults. Obviously not. Anyways, after that, I did restore the defaults BUT whatever it did to the HD inputs, it did not reverse. Basically the set doesn't know how to do HD signals after releasing the NVM data. I think that's what happened, at least...

You could probably order or google around for a KV-36HS510 service manual and just copy the settings from it.

Help my confusion?

If I am attempting to make my overscan near 4 or 5%, I should input a 1080i crosshatch signal, right? (I can do this using my PC.)
Once that signal is on the screen, adjust the 2170D 1 and 2170D 2 appropriate controls to achieve the overscan desired?

Here is my confusion. Adjusting the MID controls can make the actual “seen” picture on the screen pallet ( 2170D settings) so large as to cut off the picture. If the MID controls are set to service manual settings (as they are on my set) then the “picture” I see is cut off on all the sides. So therefore, if I input a 1980i signal from my PC it will show overscan by different percentages on the top and bottom, and I will not be able to see the full “picture” of the crosshatch signal.
So, I need to find a way to make sure the global settings or “pallet” from the global settings is not much larger than my screen. THEN I will need to adjust the MID settings to make sure the “picture” fits in the adjusted “pallet”.

That is my understanding of things. If you see something wrong or something that I am not understanding correctly, do not hesitate to correct me.

Thanks. 

Help my confusion?

If I am attempting to make my overscan near 4 or 5%, I should input a 1080i crosshatch signal, right? (I can do this using my PC.)
Once that signal is on the screen, adjust the 2170D 1 and 2170D 2 appropriate controls to achieve the overscan desired?

Here is my confusion. Adjusting the MID controls can make the actual “seen” picture on the screen pallet ( 2170D settings) so large as to cut off the picture. If the MID controls are set to service manual settings (as they are on my set) then the “picture” I see is cut off on all the sides. So therefore, if I input a 1980i signal from my PC it will show overscan by different percentages on the top and bottom, and I will not be able to see the full “picture” of the crosshatch signal.
So, I need to find a way to make sure the global settings or “pallet” from the global settings is not much larger than my screen. THEN I will need to adjust the MID settings to make sure the “picture” fits in the adjusted “pallet”.

That is my understanding of things. If you see something wrong or something that I am not understanding correctly, do not hesitate to correct me.

Thanks. 
You should be able to make adjustments to the size and position without touching anything in MID. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that when you reduce the size of the image with 2170D-1 and 2170D-2, you're still not able to see the actual edge of your crosshatch pattern, even when you've reduced the size far enough that you should be able to see the edge. It's being cut off.

Before you make any adjustments in MID, first make sure that the "blanking shutters" in 2170D-3 aren't what's cutting off the edges of your picture. That's essentially what 2170D-3 is there to do, so if you reduce the size of the image with 2170D-1 and 2170D-2, without turning off and/or adjusting the shutters in 2170D-3, you'll get the cut-off image problem that you're describing.

Thanks G-Bull.
I had "played" with the blanking before but had not noticed it shrinking or showing more of the "picture". I was thinking mainly of the 'guns' bouncing off the side of the tube.

Now, if I can only get the geometry correct...that is things like PIN, PPHA, VANG, LANG, etc.
What a pain it is to adjust those!!!

Thanks again G-BULL

Now, if I can only get the geometry correct...that is things like PIN, PPHA, VANG, LANG, etc.
What a pain it is to adjust those!!!
Indeed it is a pain. Just make small changes, and remember that changes you make to one setting will usually affect more than one thing, so you'll have to go back and forth between the various settings more than once... Be patient. Take notes. Good luck!

You could probably order or google around for a KV-36HS510 service manual and just copy the settings from it.


Where could I order one? No luck googeling so far....

A few questions about geometry.
What adjustments are universal...meaning they affect ALL the inputs at once.
Are the MID adjustments universal or input dependent?
If I put up a crosshatch pattern, what adjustments will stretch or shrink the image on all the "squares" at once? Meaning that all the squares in the pattern will shrink or squeeze at the same rate.

Is there a pattern that I can put on my TV that will show the degradation of the picture when I adjust some of the MID adjustments?

Thanks in advance.

A few questions about geometry.
What adjustments are universal...meaning they affect ALL the inputs at once.
Are the MID adjustments universal or input dependent?
If I put up a crosshatch pattern, what adjustments will stretch or shrink the image on all the "squares" at once? Meaning that all the squares in the pattern will shrink or squeeze at the same rate.

Is there a pattern that I can put on my TV that will show the degradation of the picture when I adjust some of the MID adjustments?

Thanks in advance.
You have the 34XBR960, correct? I have the 34XBR970, and the available settings in MID2 and MID3 are different in our sets, so I can only answer as best I can.

First, universal geometry adjustments are done with 2170D-1 and 2170D-2. These will fix image size, bowing, stretching, pincushion, slanting, trapezoid, linearity, and all sortsa other geometry problems.

Regarding MID settings, I don't know whether this is the same on the 34XBR960 as it is on a 34XBR970. I know the "names" of the settings are different, but I don't know whether they still do the same thing or not. MID2 settings on the 34XBR970 can be adjusted to change size and position, horizontally and vertically. These settings do stretch or shrink the size of the squares at a uniform rate. These are input-specific AND resolution-specific (so 480i on input4 is separate from 1080i on input4 which is separate from 1080i on input5, etc). If you have a test pattern with a black background and horizontal lines spaced every quarter inch or half inch or so, you'll see some of the horizontal lines become brighter or thicker as you make changes to the MID2 vertical size. This is the image degradation that people speak about when making MID adjustments.

Maybe its time for a plasma. :(

Maybe its time for a plasma. :(Geometry is perfect with the Panasonic 1080p (TH-(50/65)PF9UK) and with 1x1 pixel mode for 1080i/p input, no overscan. All others have about 3% overscan.

Hhahah thanks GlenC.
I was looking at the pioneer 50.
BUt we better stop...I dont think this is the thread for it.
I wonder if I can sell my sony 34xbr960

I apoligize if this cuts into the current line of conversation.

I was curious what people use for their color decoding these days. I haven't seen KenTech for a while, who was a pioneer in making some discoveries for Sony color-decoding.

I've been using (for RYR-GYB) 14-14-4-3 for the longest time, but then switched back to 14-14-6-4, as I felt the green was lacking a littl bit. I still swear that the perfect color decoding lies somewhere between 14-14-6-4 and 13-15-5-3.

Chad B. calibrated my display and locked in a perfect grayscale. He calibrated my set to 13-15-5-3 initially. I then ran the 14-14-6-4 by him, which he said looked "a little bit more accurate" on DVE.

I still feel that the TRUE color decoding lies somewhere between 13-15-5-3 and 14-14-6-4. The first has too much red while the latter has too much green. I remember KenTech saying that the 6-4 for green was set in stone. What do you guys think?

Color-decoding is definitely my favorite part in display adjustment, as so little adjustment has big effect on image aesthetics. But deciding on one setting is the biggest challenge. For a while i was swearing by 14-14-4-3, but I still felt that true NTSC accuracy was missing as we needed a little more greens with this one.

Calibrating on DVE gets you there, but i make final decisions by how well colors look on a dvd (usually the 2 agree).

14-14-6-4 seems to be the most accurate, although the greens look a touch over-saturated. 13-15-5-3 obviously takes out the green, but adds too much red. They're both VERY close, although I wish there was something in the middle that worked. What do you folks use?

I personally use 14-14-6-4..i find this to be the most accurate settings of all the different variations i've found.

Napoleon D you might want to try lowering your color settings also in the user menu since the default middle settings can somewhat be a bit too much saturation.

I personally prefur a more natural look so i keep my color settings at 4 clicks below the middle setting.

As for SBRT well i have my setting at 29, it seems to be the best compromise although 28 is really close.

And when all is said and done, the proof is in the pudding. You don't watch calibration DVD's on the set, you watch TV shows mostly. And that's ultimately where the final fine-tuning lies, watching some program content that looks most human-likfe and realistic.

I used to rely on "The Tonight Show" as my reference, and while I still do refer to it when adjusting new sets for friends and family, I've decided that the best looking show on TV now is "American Idol". I'm not concerned about 720p vs. 1080i, I'm talking about the COLOR.

First of all, it's live. That makes an unbelievable difference.

Second, I'm suggesting you concentrate on the post-performance discussion with Randy, Paula and Simon, and the closeups of them. This season the color of the background behind them and all of the surrounding areas are all fabulous. And of course the skin and hair and clothing colors of the three of them are simply remarkable (on my perfectly adjusted XBR960).

I get a kick out of Randy's multi-colored highly detailed shirts that he always wears over his T-shirt. This always looks like he's actually sitting in my room, it's so real and detailed and the colors are so true. The camera closeups are remarkable. With the detail available from a CRT you can see every single hair, every twinkle and reflection in eyes and glass, etc. Live TV is amazing in HD.

The production crew on that show really has reached a level that is unlikely to be matched on any other show. So use it as a reference. If their skin color looks perfect, you've got your color-tweaks set right on your Sony. If not, use them as your reference and try out slight adjustments.

First of all, let me give you a HUGE thanks KenTech for taking the time to create this thread, and continuing to add new information and discoveries to it - and thanks to all the other major contributers like NighWatchMen who have worked to "Perfect" their TV's.

I have a KD-34XBR960, and I was initally impressed by it's stunning clarity - like I'm sure all of you who own it were - out of the box, until I noticed many geometry errors, convergence errors (I STILL have an even misconvergence on horzontal lines - but have yet to tweak the H.STAT control on the CRT neck to resolve it), color and image artifacts from over sharpness, and slightly off color tone.

I've tweaked SM settings on most of my TV's before, but the Sony SM (unlike the Samsung) is VERY large, and very complex - had it not been for the large abundance of input in this thread, and the guidence contributed by everyone, I wouldn't have felt confident to dive in. I've learned alot along the way that I couldn't have figured out any other way aswell - like what the VON setting does (good thing I didn't mess with that too much!).

I can confidently say, my TV is as good as I can make it. I spend an hour or so each day, tweaking (much to my families annoyance) this awesome set, striving for the "Sweet Spot" where I can finally say I'm done. All my setting have been done in the hijacked PRO picture mode. :)

Soo far, the sharpness settings ended up best with the user menu sharpness set at 20, Velocity modulation OFF in the user menu, and with SM settings set to SYSM = 1, VMLV = 0, VMCR = 3, VMLM = 1, VMF0 = 1, VMDL = 4, SHOF = 2, SHFO = 1, PROV = 2, F1LV = 0, LTLV = 1, LTMD = 0, CTLV = 1, and I set MIDE to my own custom table at 21, which has the settings, 21-0-0-0-0-3-2-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 in the M row of settings - no enhancements were added to the S row of settings in the MID5 group. I applied these SM sharpness and user menu settings to every input with resolutions above 480i - for that mode I have some settings I will share when I can re-confirm them, and they resolve equally, pixel perfect, near LCD resolution.

I am first and foremost, using my TV for high-definition, and SD based video games, and PC software - and at this point, all of my months of tweaking through trial and error to discover things have resulted in a TV with clarity comparible to that of high-end PC CRT monitors in both color clarity, image resolution, ringing control, and overall image fidelity including color tone and greyscale gamma correction to 2.2 (windows standard gamma setting).

I also enjoy watching movies as the director intended. In the process of striving for a gaming monitor that produces the clearest, most accurate high-fidelity images - as gaming is one of the most resolution demanding applications of any monitor (pixel precision is a must for video clarity) - has made watching anything else on the TV spectacular. However, color accuracy isn't as important to gaming as it is to movies - but I've got my color decoder nearly perfect aswell with 15-15-6-3 (I believe) for the best of both worlds.

Using a PC to do the calibrations through HDMI and componnet, aswell as S-Video and composite has yielded fantasic results, and I firmly believe to be the best way to calibrate the majority of the image settings. I use a PC monitor to base my comparisons of image clarity against - and soo far, my TV shoots past my high-resolution PC monitor in nearly all areas. There is only a SLIGHT amount of ringing and ghosting left, due to the limitations of the component video bandwidth.

HDMI fares FAR better in this regard, as there is almost NO sign of over-sharpening, ghosting, or color mis-alignment - I can't wait to play PS3 games at 1080i through HDMI on this thing. I never expected to remove ALL picture noise - but I have come close with the adjustments I outlined above. Using a program though my PC called Nokia Monitor Test (you can still find it online [EDIT: Links are in my next post]) makes adjusting overscan, sharpness, scaling, convergence, auto brightness limiting, and geometry a breeze.

The only problem resulting from tuning the geometry is that the right side of the screen is being stretched outward more than the left - which I know can be fixed by simply adjusting the HCENT setting in the 2105D-2 table off from center in the raster. Right now, however, the image is perfectly centered in the raster with eqaul spacing on all sides, with almost no overscan, and only a SLIGHT bulge on the top right corner from magnetic adjustments that I cannot easily make.

The vertical convergence is nearly perfect, the overall screen brightness, thanks to the LANDING adjustments, is very even - and every resolution coming from my PC fits the screen perfectly square corner to corner, I can see the entire Windows Start bar, and every detail to the corners - and even in 1080i the image is soo clear I can easily make each pixel in the clock on the right side of the start bar.

Another important thing - as KenTech pointed out - the MID1-3 settings that stretch the image will GREATLY affect the overall image resolution if impropperly adjusted. I recommend using a 2x2 pixel and 1x1 pixel diagonal grid patterns (looks like a checker board) with full black on white to determine the MID settings are correct. It's nearly perfect for all modes on my TV except 720P, which is only slightly off in order to keep the overscan under control. If it's off at all, you'll see big rolling bars in the patters either vertically or horizontally, and you'll know it's coming from the MID1-3 table settings. These settings, are KEY to producing pixel-perfect image clarity. Since no 2 TV's are the same, I won't bother adding my geometry or MID1-3 settings here.

I've also found it very usefull to crank the YOF setting in the 2105P-1 table to 15 on all inputs, as it yields the best black-level detail in dark scenes. I took RWetmore's advice, and upped my CUT settings from around ~16 or less, and upped them to in the mid 20's while lowering the DRV and SBRT settings to stabilise the black level and contrast - the TV now maintains a consistant black level under nearly all contrast levels. Gamma is set at 2.2 with the settings in the 2107P-3 being GAMM = 0, GAMS = 10 (makes the image look more 3D - any high or any lower and it looks either pastel, or washed out), GAMR = 4, GAMG = 4, and GAMB = 4 - I'm very pleased with this setting, as all content seems to POP out of the screen. Somtimes I just sit back and say "WOW" because it looks as if you would reach through the TV when playing games or watching nature programs on the discovery channel.

I have some other things I will come back and share at a later time, on calibrating the DRC circuitry and the 2103-1 tables for making 480i content almost IDENTICAL in clarity to true 480P. I'm very impressed with the results the calibration has yielded in this area. Color delay is also very important to these results for ALL screen modes, and those adjustments can be found in the DRC table (for 480i), and in the MID1, and MID3 tables for all other modes (including 480i aswell). The MID3 VYCD setting is unique to each screen mode, and the MID1 DYCD adjustment is unique to 480i, but applied globally to all resolutions from 480P and above on both HDMI and Component input 5 and 6 (the only inputs I've adjusted soo far).

I've gotta go for now, but THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE for you're contributions, this thread has been awesome.

A few questions about geometry.
What adjustments are universal...meaning they affect ALL the inputs at once.
Are the MID adjustments universal or input dependent?
If I put up a crosshatch pattern, what adjustments will stretch or shrink the image on all the "squares" at once? Meaning that all the squares in the pattern will shrink or squeeze at the same rate.

Is there a pattern that I can put on my TV that will show the degradation of the picture when I adjust some of the MID adjustments?

Thanks in advance.

The MID1 table effects all screen modes - the MID2 and 3 tables are resolution (and in some cases such as with Component and HDMI) input independant.

I've managed to get perfect overscan and centering on all resolutions for HDMI and Component 5/6 using the MID tables.

A pattern that is great for adjusting the MID scaling settings can be found in the Nokia Monitor Test PC programs that can be found at these addresses (Remove the *'s) - both programs contain different patterns:

This is the big one - it must be installed on your hard disk:
w*w*w*.*construnet*.*h*u*/nokia/Monitors/TEST/monitor_test*.*h*t*m*l

This is the one I use, and the one my information reffers to:
w*w*w*.*softpedia*.*c*o*m*/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/Nokia-Monitor-Test*.*s*h*t*m*l

You'll need to hook your PC up to your TV through HDMI or Component though, and it works best with 480P and above, as the DRC circtuiry renders fine detail with LOTS of artifacts. The best patterns for this adjustment are in the Moire pattern page.

Hope you get the results you're looking for!

Thanks.
I have used other patters for 480i and for 1080i. When adjusting the HD, I use my computer to output to my TV via component. When I change my computer screen resolution to 1920 by 1080, my TV accepts that at 1080i and show the complete pattern.

I've been wondering for a while - and I'm sure someone here knows the answer - in the service data chart chart for the KD-34XBR960, there is a Red box and Yellow box at the top of each page that say Adjustment Data At CBA, and Adjustment Data At F/A (respectively) used to describe the appliable value of certain service menu items.

What is CBA, and what is F/A?

Any help would be VERY much appreciated. :)

First of all, let me give you a HUGE thanks KenTech for taking the time to create this thread, and continuing to add new information and discoveries to it - and thanks to all the other major contributers like NighWatchMen who have worked to "Perfect" their TV's.

I have a KD-34XBR960, and I was initally impressed by it's stunning clarity - like I'm sure all of you who own it were - out of the box, until I noticed many geometry errors, convergence errors (I STILL have an even misconvergence on horzontal lines - but have yet to tweak the H.STAT control on the CRT neck to resolve it), color and image artifacts from over sharpness, and slightly off color tone.

I've tweaked SM settings on most of my TV's before, but the Sony SM (unlike the Samsung) is VERY large, and very complex - had it not been for the large abundance of input in this thread, and the guidence contributed by everyone, I wouldn't have felt confident to dive in. I've learned alot along the way that I couldn't have figured out any other way aswell - like what the VON setting does (good thing I didn't mess with that too much!).

I can confidently say, my TV is as good as I can make it. I spend an hour or so each day, tweaking (much to my families annoyance) this awesome set, striving for the "Sweet Spot" where I can finally say I'm done. All my setting have been done in the hijacked PRO picture mode. :)

Soo far, the sharpness settings ended up best with the user menu sharpness set at 20, Velocity modulation OFF in the user menu, and with SM settings set to SYSM = 1, VMLV = 0, VMCR = 3, VMLM = 1, VMF0 = 1, VMDL = 4, SHOF = 2, SHFO = 1, PROV = 2, F1LV = 0, LTLV = 1, LTMD = 0, CTLV = 1, and I set MIDE to my own custom table at 21, which has the settings, 21-0-0-0-0-3-2-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 in the M row of settings - no enhancements were added to the S row of settings in the MID5 group. I applied these SM sharpness and user menu settings to every input with resolutions above 480i - for that mode I have some settings I will share when I can re-confirm them, and they resolve equally, pixel perfect, near LCD resolution.

I am first and foremost, using my TV for high-definition, and SD based video games, and PC software - and at this point, all of my months of tweaking through trial and error to discover things have resulted in a TV with clarity comparible to that of high-end PC CRT monitors in both color clarity, image resolution, ringing control, and overall image fidelity including color tone and greyscale gamma correction to 2.2 (windows standard gamma setting).

I also enjoy watching movies as the director intended. In the process of striving for a gaming monitor that produces the clearest, most accurate high-fidelity images - as gaming is one of the most resolution demanding applications of any monitor (pixel precision is a must for video clarity) - has made watching anything else on the TV spectacular. However, color accuracy isn't as important to gaming as it is to movies - but I've got my color decoder nearly perfect aswell with 15-15-6-3 (I believe) for the best of both worlds.

Using a PC to do the calibrations through HDMI and componnet, aswell as S-Video and composite has yielded fantasic results, and I firmly believe to be the best way to calibrate the majority of the image settings. I use a PC monitor to base my comparisons of image clarity against - and soo far, my TV shoots past my high-resolution PC monitor in nearly all areas. There is only a SLIGHT amount of ringing and ghosting left, due to the limitations of the component video bandwidth.

HDMI fares FAR better in this regard, as there is almost NO sign of over-sharpening, ghosting, or color mis-alignment - I can't wait to play PS3 games at 1080i through HDMI on this thing. I never expected to remove ALL picture noise - but I have come close with the adjustments I outlined above. Using a program though my PC called Nokia Monitor Test (you can still find it online [EDIT: Links are in my next post]) makes adjusting overscan, sharpness, scaling, convergence, auto brightness limiting, and geometry a breeze.

The only problem resulting from tuning the geometry is that the right side of the screen is being stretched outward more than the left - which I know can be fixed by simply adjusting the HCENT setting in the 2105D-2 table off from center in the raster. Right now, however, the image is perfectly centered in the raster with eqaul spacing on all sides, with almost no overscan, and only a SLIGHT bulge on the top right corner from magnetic adjustments that I cannot easily make.

The vertical convergence is nearly perfect, the overall screen brightness, thanks to the LANDING adjustments, is very even - and every resolution coming from my PC fits the screen perfectly square corner to corner, I can see the entire Windows Start bar, and every detail to the corners - and even in 1080i the image is soo clear I can easily make each pixel in the clock on the right side of the start bar.

Another important thing - as KenTech pointed out - the MID1-3 settings that stretch the image will GREATLY affect the overall image resolution if impropperly adjusted. I recommend using a 2x2 pixel and 1x1 pixel diagonal grid patterns (looks like a checker board) with full black on white to determine the MID settings are correct. It's nearly perfect for all modes on my TV except 720P, which is only slightly off in order to keep the overscan under control. If it's off at all, you'll see big rolling bars in the patters either vertically or horizontally, and you'll know it's coming from the MID1-3 table settings. These settings, are KEY to producing pixel-perfect image clarity. Since no 2 TV's are the same, I won't bother adding my geometry or MID1-3 settings here.

I've also found it very usefull to crank the YOF setting in the 2105P-1 table to 15 on all inputs, as it yields the best black-level detail in dark scenes. I took RWetmore's advice, and upped my CUT settings from around ~16 or less, and upped them to in the mid 20's while lowering the DRV and SBRT settings to stabilise the black level and contrast - the TV now maintains a consistant black level under nearly all contrast levels. Gamma is set at 2.2 with the settings in the 2107P-3 being GAMM = 0, GAMS = 10 (makes the image look more 3D - any high or any lower and it looks either pastel, or washed out), GAMR = 4, GAMG = 4, and GAMB = 4 - I'm very pleased with this setting, as all content seems to POP out of the screen. Somtimes I just sit back and say "WOW" because it looks as if you would reach through the TV when playing games or watching nature programs on the discovery channel.

I have some other things I will come back and share at a later time, on calibrating the DRC circuitry and the 2103-1 tables for making 480i content almost IDENTICAL in clarity to true 480P. I'm very impressed with the results the calibration has yielded in this area. Color delay is also very important to these results for ALL screen modes, and those adjustments can be found in the DRC table (for 480i), and in the MID1, and MID3 tables for all other modes (including 480i aswell). The MID3 VYCD setting is unique to each screen mode, and the MID1 DYCD adjustment is unique to 480i, but applied globally to all resolutions from 480P and above on both HDMI and Component input 5 and 6 (the only inputs I've adjusted soo far).

I've gotta go for now, but THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE for you're contributions, this thread has been awesome.


Unfortunately the PS3 doesn't do 1080i because a lack of a scaler, if you pick 1080i it will be downrezed to 480p.

But since your sony accepts 720p, i'd use that.

Sucks i know... :(

Unfortunately the PS3 doesn't do 1080i because a lack of a scaler, if you pick 1080i it will be downrezed to 480p.

But since your sony accepts 720p, i'd use that.

Sucks i know... :(

Darn, that's lame. I figured it would, since my year old 360 does. I can run everything at 1080i, or 720, or whatever the game wants. What a shame - hopefully they will have a firmware patch to fix this, as I know some TV's do not accept 720P aswell, and that would force early HDTV adopters to be stuck with 480P...

Well, soo much for the PS3 then - for now...

:(

Seeking some advice to clear something up. I have a 970, and I've got a dilemma. I've read many places in this thread that vertical size should not be adjusted in the MID options; however, when I set VSIZ and VPOS in 2170D-2 with a 480p/i input to 5% overscan, 1080i is overscanned to like 7%. Does anyone have any suggestions to resolve this? Horizontally things are OK, thanks to HPOS being separate for 1080i.

Some observations;
In the service manual under "picture distortions adjustments", subheading, "1080i HD Mode Adjustment"...it says to adjust geometry with a monoscope and says if you dont have one, set Verticle size to 91.0 +- .06% and Horizontal 91.0 +- 0.6%. DOes this meant the propper setting is at 9% over scan for 1080i?

Secondly, on a 960, when you see the display out put by the TV that tells the channel, ets, is that centered from the factory? Is it movable by itself? Is it centered on all the new 960?
If the answer to all that is 'positive' then one might be able to 'center' the control HCNT using the tv's display

:)

Is there a step by step guide i can follow to change the geometry on my sony XBR970.I want to get into the service menu so i can fix the picture a bit.I notice things are a bit off when i play my xbox 360.There is so many posts here,dont know where to look.Can anyone help?thxs.

Seeking some advice to clear something up. I have a 970, and I've got a dilemma. I've read many places in this thread that vertical size should not be adjusted in the MID options; however, when I set VSIZ and VPOS in 2170D-2 with a 480p/i input to 5% overscan, 1080i is overscanned to like 7%. Does anyone have any suggestions to resolve this? Horizontally things are OK, thanks to HPOS being separate for 1080i.FWIW, I use 2170D-1/ASPT and SCRL for such vertical adjustments on my XBR800. These controls are signal (SD, HD) and aspect ratio sensitive.

There's also a third sizing control in the grouping called APSW. This has only two settings (0 or 1), and appears to be used to quickly correct for the slight difference is size between the 480p/960i-line and 1080i-line display modes.

Is there a step by step guide i can follow to change the geometry on my sony XBR970.I want to get into the service menu so i can fix the picture a bit.I notice things are a bit off when i play my xbox 360.There is so many posts here,dont know where to look.Can anyone help?thxs.

Look back for post # 1941

I have another important question that I hope someone can answer.

I know many of you have had to call Sony, and have techs come over to your homes to propperly adjust the convergence and geometry on your Sony HDTV's - soo my quesiton is this.

When the Tech's take the back of the TV off, and perform the convergence adjustments, do they wear any sort of protective clothing or goggles to prevent over-exposure to the X-RAY's that the TV emits?

I ask this because I am going to take the back off of my set, and make some small adjustments to the convergence myself - and before I do, I want to know what precautions the "Pros" take in regards to protecting themselves from the minor amount of X-RAY's that the TV's emit.

I don't want my eye's to bubble out of my head, or be radioatively charged or something, and need to be de-contaminated - well, maybe that's a little extreme. :)

But, better safe then sorry. ;)

I know alot of you have seen these guys at work, and I'd just like to know if it appears that they have any special eye-wear or clothing on during the adjustments.

If they don't wear anything special, I'll be straight off to making the adjustments myself!

Thanks in advance! :)

After having read a significant portion of this thread, I started working on my television this weekend, but very slowly. I d/l the service codes list pdf file which was done with a Sony 34XBR910. I was wondering if someone with a Sony 34XBR970 took this file and converted it for that tv? If someone used this pdf file to do their XBR970 and inputed those values to that file, would they mind emailing that to me? It would serve as a much better road map than the 910 as the 970 is a bit different and does not have Super Fine Pitch. Obviously it could not be used verbatim as every tv is different, but again, it would provide a better "baseline" for me to use.

I personally use 14-14-6-4..i find this to be the most accurate settings of all the different variations i've found.

I have been playing around a lot with color-decoding recently. One thing i've noticed, and KenTech alluded to this earlier, is that DVE and Avia give very slightly different results with color decoding, most notably with the reds. There has definitely been a learning curve for me for me in calibrating the color-decoding, but that's because i've been trying to nail it 100%. I've been a little hesitant to accept the typical 14-14-6-4. While it looks impressive, i've always felt it looked a touch off, perhaps needing a little more red. Chad B. did my grayscale a little while ago, so that's still in tact. But adjusting color-decoding has great effect, and not to mention is very simple to adjust. It's just tedious to decide on one pattern :)

It looks as if the 6-4 for GYR/GYB is a constant, but the reds seem to be a little tricky. Avia seems to calibrate reds to 14-15 for RYR/RYB. To me this looks slightly inaccurate when watching video content. On the other hand, for DVE, the reds really look like something closer to 13-13, with 14-14 coming in a very close second place. For the final test i will usually pop in a dvd to see how all results look and choose frm there -- MI-3 is a great reference title to use as the colors are very rich in that film. From everything i've seen so far, it looks as if the "ideal" reds lie somewhere between 14-14 and 13-13 for dead-on accuracy. Both of these get you very very close, but 14-14-6-4 seems to look a a hint too dulled to my eyes, and i always thought it needed a touch more red to get it perfect. After everything i've tested, 13-13-6-4 seems to look a spec better than 14-14-6-4 IMHO. My reasoning for this (besides having it check out with DVE) is because an image with a touch more red looks a little punchier and less washed-out than an image with too many greens or blues. We are talking about a micrscopic red-push with 13-13, if even that. Both 14-14-6-4 and the 13-13-6-4 look to be the 2 most accurate patterns i've seen in terms of judging flesh tones and video content. When you watch video material you get a sense of what looks right and what doesn't judging by years of seeing colors on film. On a side-note, my HD input seems to agree closely with various color results for the compenent/dvd input.

I think that the challenge is finding one decoder pattern that works for every input - as different dvd players tend to yield different results. All Sony's are different, but from what i've been reading on here for the past year, they seem to be VERY similar in terms of color decoding.

I have been playing around a lot with color-decoding recently. One thing i've noticed, and KenTech alluded to this earlier, is that DVE and Avia give very slightly different results with color decoding, most notably with the reds. There has definitely been a learning curve for me for me in calibrating the color-decoding, but that's because i've bene trying to nail it 100%. I've been a little hesitant to accept the typical 14-14-6-4. While it looks impressive, i've always felt it looked a touch off, perhaps needing a little more red. Chad B. did my grayscale a little while ago, so that's still in tact. But adjusting color-decoding has great effect, and not to mention is very simple to adjust. It's just tedious to decide on one pattern :)

It looks as if the 6-4 for GYR/GYB is a constant, but the reds seem to be a little tricky. Avia seems to calibrate reds to 14-15 for RYR/RYB. To me this looks slightly inaccurate when watching video content. On the other hand, for DVE, the reds really look like something closer to 13-13, with 14-14 coming in a very close second place. For the final test i will usually pop in a dvd to see how all results look and choose frm there -- MI-3 is a great reference title to use as the colors are very rich in that film. From everything i've seen so far, it looks as if the "ideal" reds lie somewhere between 14-14 and 13-13 for dead-on accuracy. Both of these get you very very close, but 14-14-6-4 seems to look a little dulled, and i always thought it needed a touch more red to get it perfect. After everything i've tested, 13-13-6-4 seems to look a spec better than 14-14-6-4 IMHO. My reasoning for this (besides having it check out with DVE) is because an image with a touch more red looks a little punchier and less washed-out than an image with too many greens or blues. We are talking about a micrscopic red-push with 13-13, if even that. Both 14-14-6-4 and the 13-13-6-4 look to be the 2 most accurate patterns i've seen in terms of judging flesh tones and video content. When you watch video material you get a sense of what looks right and what doesn't judging by years of seeing colors on film. On a side-note, my HD input seems to agree closely with various color results for the compenent/dvd input.

I think that the challenge is finding one decoder pattern that works for every input - as different dvd players tend to yield different results. All Sony's are different, but from what i've been reading on here for the past year, they seem to be VERY similar in terms of color decoding.

Interesting observations.. ;)

If only there was a middle setting like 13.5,etc then we wouldn't be having this discussion. :D

Overall i find 14,14,6,4 to look it best with HD material,that's where colors truly shine and look really good!

I've got a question for you with color decoding aside what SBRT setting are you using for black level?

I'm still comptemplating from time to time using either 29 or 28, currently i'm using 29 and it seems accurate but feel my blacks could be richer and bolder if i bring it down a notch without sacrificing shadow detail.

Matt-

Yeah, if only you could calibrate with a a greater range than 15 for the greens and reds.

If i remember right my SBRT is 28, i'll give it a check next time i'm in the service menu. Keep in mind - all of my user-menu settings are in the middle - 32 clicks I believe. This is because the "correct" user-menu settings are stored in the service menu. I honestly think though that mine are all set for 32 anyway, with color at 33. By setting the real settings in the SM - and linking each of those settings to each User-menu slider at the middle, you will always know which User-menu setting is correct if someone were to ever change them. So when someone tells you their SBRT is 25, be sure to know what their corresponding user setting is - whether they have it set in the SM, or in the User-menu.

I do think though that there are several service-menu settings that interact with black-level. SBRT seems to be a big one, and it may have been the only one changed, but just remember that there might be other things that play a part.

I would recommend getting an ISF by someone reputable. Once i did this, it freed up all of my concerns of adjusting everything. Color-decoding is a nice and easy one to change from time to time however, but that's all i've needed or cared to mess with. Chad Bilheimer may even come up to Massachusettes for all i know. Trust me when i say that he is excellent! He is also has the most reasonable rates out there.

thanks for the tips:)

All i really need done for an ISF is greyscale adjustment and balancing the other inputs in black level color quality.

Matt- What type of display do you have?

I actually had loads of changes done to my display during ISF - things i didn't even know existed. Granted, i have a CRT rear-projection so focus, convergence and geometry adjustments are needeed as well. When Chad was finished calibrating it, according to him the display looked as good, if not a touch better then even his own 60" SXRD. Apparently the SXRD is slightly better with resolution, but mine edged out with black-levels and color fidelity.

So tell the truth, how many of you were frustrated to the point of insanity trying to get the geometry perfect?! I'm almost to that point. SO many little changes effect so many other problems that were corrected. VERY frustrating!

So tell the truth, how many of you were frustrated to the point of insanity trying to get the geometry perfect?! I'm almost to that point. SO many little changes effect so many other problems that were corrected. VERY frustrating!

No one can't get the geometry perfect - it is not possible even with the addition of the most skilled magnet work. At some point, compromise has to made since straighting one line result in curving another or throwing off convergence. Don't drive yourself crazy.

If only there was a middle setting like 13.5,etc then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Well perhaps there's a way to "create" a mid-setting like this. What does the "AXIS" item do in the service menu?

In my service menu, right before the 4 color decoder features, there is a feature called AXIS that ranges from 0-3. My display does NOT have the axis features in the user menu like some of you do - i don't have the "monitor" etc features. The only way to access any color axis feature is in the service menu.

The "AXIS" feature as i said goes from 0 to 3. Each of these values links to a different set of color-decoding patterns. For example, if you set AXIS to 0, it will link up with 14-14-6-4. If you set AXIS to 1, you can have 13-15-5-3.... and so one. For each AXIS value you can store whatever patterns of color decoding you want.

My question is - what the is the purpose of this setting? I've asked several times in different forums and so far there really aren't any clear answers to this.

Does the Axis slide the color decoding values. For example, with some of our sets, the correct values for red lie between 14 and 13. If you were to attach 14-14-6-4 to all 4 AXIS values (0-3), will there be any difference? I know this is easily explained by testing, but it is challenging seeing differences.

I'm wondering if the AXIS value will help at all in what i'm trying to do. I feel this Sony is really capable of nailing the color-decoding. Does the AXIS feature/setting work with this at all??


**UPDATE** I found a good and old post regarding AXIS which echoes my observations

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"First, let me say that I'm not an expert on this topic and I just want to contribute what I've observed. I may be 100% wrong and it would be cool if someone would correct me.

I've been playing with DCP-USER - AXIS a little bit last night. It seems each number in AXIS has certain values for RYB, RYR, GRB and GYR.

RYB (Red level for color decoder)
RYR (Red hue for color decoder)
GYB (Green level for color decoder)
GYR (Green hue for color decoder)

I've been trying to correct the Red and Green through RYB, RYR, GRB, GYR with the AVIA color bars on 480i component input and was able to get it pretty close to red bars showing all red and green bars showing all green, looking through the color filters of course.

Before I tweaked RYB, RYR, GRB and GYR, the red and green was closer to desired setting when at AXIS=0. AXIS=2 had too much green I believe.

I then tweaked RYB, RYR, GRB and GYR using the red bars and green bars while at AXIS=0.

After saving the settings, I then tried to change AXIS to 4 and RYB, RYR, GRB and GYR values changed. While on AXIS=4, I duplicated the RYB, RYR, GRB and GYR values to be the same as in AXIS=0 and it had the same effect.

In theory, when you set AXIS to be the same on all inputs, all inputs would have the same red and green levels. (I'm still trying to get a HDMI upconverting dvd player to compare it with HDTivo).

If certain inputs have more green or red because of the source, this is where you can apply a different AXIS number and modify RYB, RYR, GRB and GYR values."
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SurfingMatt -

By the way, my SBRT is actually set at 24.

SurfingMatt -

By the way, my SBRT is actually set at 24.

Interesting..after further analysis it happpens that 29 was correct after all for my sony tv.

BTW i own a Sony 34" 34HS420.

Also by turning the color guns on/off in the service menu you can adjust color decoder more accurately than using the color filters.

I believe it's RGBS in the service menu.

Also by turning the color guns on/off in the service menu you can adjust color decoder more accurately than using the color filters.

Very true. You should not use the color filters, apparently they aren't accurate.

The only challenge with even the color-gun method, is that DVE and Avia tend to disagree a little. What it all comes down to is what you like the best.

All in all, i think we can get 95% of the way there, but perhaps not 100%. Oh well!

I just made a large breakthrough with my display with color-decoding. This has been an ongoing effort, and i've learned a lot along the way. But I think i've finally nailed the color-decoding for this display. (or at least, something that's 98-99% of the way there)

I've personally found that DVE and Avia produce different results - I could be looking at it differently, but i come up with slightly different results from each when i calibrate red. From the looks of it, and from what I discovered tonight, DVE looks to be slightly the more accurate of the 2, at least in what i've found with my own eyes.

All Sony's are different, but from what i've read on here it seems we all agree on color-decoding for the most part.

I gave DVE another try, knowing that there must be a way to truly nail the colors. 6-4 for greens look set in stone for both Avia and DVE, but the reds have been tricky, the real deal-breakers/makers. I started calibrating reds again, and in really looking closely as the patterns, I found myself lowering reds more than usual. Finally, i came out to results of 13-12, 14-12 and once again 13-13 for reds. I thought, whatever, no one has reported this so this probably won't look right. I settled on 13-12, and then popped my MI-3 disc in, and i was instantly floored by the results. Not only was the color and flesh tones much more accurate than before, but the image looked more alive than i've ever seen it. I haven't seen others report these values, but this could very well be because i have a different Sony.

At any rate I tried out 14-12-6-4 and/or 13-12-6-4, and both were a significant improvement. I re-addressed 13-13 as well and it seemed to check out on DVE. Granted, none of these get it 100%, but to my eyes it nails it a little more so than 14-14-6-4, at least as it is on my display. Fine tuning the reds really gave the flesh tones a more natural look. I have not decided on which setting yet, but they all look very accurate (13-12 might be the best) I take it back about this set not being capable of perfect color-decoding accuracy, apparently i just needed a little more work on the reds. It's not 100%, but it's much closer than i was before.

Very true. You should not use the color filters, apparently they aren't accurate.

The only challenge with even the color-gun method, is that DVE and Avia tend to disagree a little. What it all comes down to is what you like the best.

All in all, i think we can get 95% of the way there, but perhaps not 100%. Oh well!

another thing i forgot to mention is that i have DVE, i don't own AVIA so that may be why we both have settled on different color decoder settings given the variation in the two settups discs tests. :)

I just made a large breakthrough with my display with color-decoding. This has been an ongoing effort, and i've learned a lot along the way. But I think i've finally nailed the color-decoding for this display. (or at least, something that's 98-99% of the way there)

I've personally found that DVE and Avia produce different results - I could be looking at it differently, but i come up with slightly different results from each when i calibrate red. From the looks of it, and from what I discovered tonight, DVE looks to be slightly the more accurate of the 2, at least in what i've found with my own eyes.

All Sony's are different, but from what i've read on here it seems we all agree on color-decoding for the most part.

I gave DVE another try, knowing that there must be a way to truly nail the colors. 6-4 for greens look set in stone for both Avia and DVE, but the reds have been tricky, the real deal-breakers/makers. I started calibrating reds again, and in really looking closely as the patterns, I found myself lowering reds more than usual. Finally, i came out to results of 13-12, 14-12 and once again 13-13 for reds. I thought, whatever, no one has reported this so this probably won't look right. I settled on 13-12, and then popped my MI-3 disc in, and i was instantly floored by the results. Not only was the color and flesh tones much more accurate than before, but the image looked more alive than i've ever seen it. I haven't seen others report these values, but this could very well be because i have a different Sony.

At any rate I tried out 14-12-6-4 and/or 13-12-6-4, and both were a significant improvement. I re-addressed 13-13 as well and it seemed to check out on DVE. Granted, none of these get it 100%, but to my eyes it nails it a little more so than 14-14-6-4, at least as it is on my display. Fine tuning the reds really gave the flesh tones a more natural look. I have not decided on which setting yet, but they all look very accurate (13-12 might be the best) I take it back about this set not being capable of perfect color-decoding accuracy, apparently i just needed a little more work on the reds. It's not 100%, but it's much closer than i was before.

what's your color settings set at in the user menu? mine are 4 clicks below the middle setting since i found the saturation of the middle setting to be a bit too much for me.

I personally like a more natural picture apposed to a "poppy" picture... but that's just me. ;)

Matt - I have DVE as well, and I like using it a little better than Avia. As i said i seem to have better luck calibrating color-decoding with DVE than w/ Avia.

Color setting for me is at 33. But the slider is at 32, the middle. (As i've saved the middle setting to reflect 33 clicks - so i can get back to the ideal setting).

You probably know this already, but the color slider should be an objective setting. To find the ideal setting, first bring up the 2 horizontal color-bar pattern on DVE under the display pattern menu. Turn off the red & green guns. All your left with is blue now. You need to adjust the color slider until the blue in the box matches the background completely. For me, this setting was 33 clicks exactly (which would be the first-half of the 17th bar on the color-slider if you catch my drift..) The best way to look at it is to view the color slider as the Blue adjustment, while RY's and GY's are for red and green. Honestly the saturation looks perfect to me, as that's what film and tv material is ideally supposed to look like, if everything's calibrated right.

Also, if you get the greens and reds calibrated just right, the image will look pretty natural and less cartoonish without having to slide the color bar down.

Another thing is that my grayscale was calibrated @ a year ago so that may play a part in the "natural" look. But i feel color-decoding takes you a long way with such simple settings. TV's are all different, but try out 13-12-6-4 and see if you like it. For me that helped in getting the flesh tones and reds to look a touch more natural. 14-12 looked good too. As much as i liked 14-14-6-4, as it works for many, with my particular display it looked a little too dulled and washed out and i thought there was some room to get it a little better.

Matt - I have DVE as well, and I like using it a little better than Avia. As i said i seem to have better luck calibrating color-decoding with DVE than w/ Avia.

Color setting for me is at 33. But the slider is at 32, the middle. (As i've saved the middle setting to reflect 33 clicks - so i can get back to the ideal setting).

You probably know this already, but the color slider should be an objective setting. To find the ideal setting, first bring up the 2 horizontal color-bar pattern on DVE under the display pattern menu. Turn off the red & green guns. All your left with is blue now. You need to adjust the color slider until the blue in the box matches the background completely. For me, this setting was 33 clicks exactly (which would be the first-half of the 17th bar on the color-slider if you catch my drift..) The best way to look at it is to view the color slider as the Blue adjustment, while RY's and GY's are for red and green. Honestly the saturation looks perfect to me, as that's what film and tv material is ideally supposed to look like, if everything's calibrated right.

Also, if you get the greens and reds calibrated just right, the image will look pretty natural and less cartoonish without having to slide the color bar down.

Another thing is that my grayscale was calibrated @ a year ago so that may play a part in the "natural" look. But i feel color-decoding takes you a long way with such simple settings. TV's are all different, but try out 13-12-6-4 and see if you like it. For me that helped in getting the flesh tones and reds to look a touch more natural. 14-12 looked good too. As much as i liked 14-14-6-4, as it works for many, with my particular display it looked a little too dulled and washed out and i thought there was some room to get it a little better.

Thanks for the tips! although personally i have no problem with skin tones what so ever i like it the way it is set now.sure it could get more saturated with the colors but like you said color is personal prefurance and i like the slightly dulled natural look. :)

To tell you the truth i really havn't been into the service menu since i got my xbox360 back in September 06. Don't have to since it's a set it and forget it thing once your satisfied with your settings you know. ;)

So i take it you finally found a happy medium of settings and will stick with them and set it and forget it now. :)

So i take it you finally found a happy medium of settings and will stick with them and set it and forget it now.

Yep :)

It's official now, 15-13-6-4 is the closest there is on my set. I got some help in finding it, but that's most definitely it, and i'm thrilled to finally have found it in there. I was on the right track with trying to fix the reds but just missing it each time. 14-14-6-4 comes in a close second for me, although it undersaturates the reds a hint too much. 15-13 (as opposed to 13-15) has the colors looking as dead-on with viewing material as possible with my set.

I tried to download the XS955:XBR960 Service Data.pdf but nothing happens. Is the attachment still valid?

I have another important question that I hope someone can answer.

I know many of you have had to call Sony, and have techs come over to your homes to propperly adjust the convergence and geometry on your Sony HDTV's - soo my quesiton is this.

When the Tech's take the back of the TV off, and perform the convergence adjustments, do they wear any sort of protective clothing or goggles to prevent over-exposure to the X-RAY's that the TV emits?

I ask this because I am going to take the back off of my set, and make some small adjustments to the convergence myself - and before I do, I want to know what precautions the "Pros" take in regards to protecting themselves from the minor amount of X-RAY's that the TV's emit.

I don't want my eye's to bubble out of my head, or be radioatively charged or something, and need to be de-contaminated - well, maybe that's a little extreme. :)

But, better safe then sorry. ;)

I know alot of you have seen these guys at work, and I'd just like to know if it appears that they have any special eye-wear or clothing on during the adjustments.

If they don't wear anything special, I'll be straight off to making the adjustments myself!

Thanks in advance! :)
Anyone have any personal experience on this matter to share with me? I'm about to take the TV apart today, and work on the convergence - but not knowing what the Pro's wear when adjusting has me concerned for my safety. Radiation typically has a half-life - but I don't have a clue about X-Ray's. I was really hoping to get a heads up on this. Please let me about anything that could be potentially hazardous during the calibration with the back off of my TV. ;)

Hi All,

I first posted this issue in November and still have yet to find a fix. It's starting to annoy me and I can't seem to figure it out.

I have KV-32HS510 hooked up to a Dish 942 and an Xbox 360. It works ok at 480p and on 1080i. However, when I switch to 720p the color is very green. Are there individual settings for color on 720p? I want to use 720p because it seems clearer than 1080i as it seems blurred on the left hand side.

Also when viewing the guide off the 942 the lines that separate the channels don't seem straight, but I can live with that for now... really it's the color thing.

Thanks in advance!

I was wondering if someone could suggest some service mode adjustments to fix a slight problem I've noticed recently on my set. Text on the bottom-right side of the screen looks slightly blurry. I notice it most when I'm in the Guide of my XBox360. I think I may be at fault for causing this, as I was in the service menu fairly recently (I can't remember why). What should I try adjusting to see if it clears it up?

My Sony KDF-60XS955 took a crap today. all i can say is that the red stanby led flahes 6 times, and repeats itself. any help out there on what this may mean

My Sony KDF-60XS955 took a crap today. all i can say is that the red stanby led flahes 6 times, and repeats itself. any help out there on what this may meanTime for a service call, from the SM:
Diagnostic Item Description | Number of times STANDBY or LAMP LED lamp flashes | Probable Cause ........................| Detected Symptoms
Low B error .........................| 6 times ............................................................ .........| -No "DD 6V " output (G1 board) | - No picture/No sound

is there any specific settings that are universal or does it vary by tv? i am a noob to this so anyhelp will be greatly apprecoated. my problem is that i have international free tv on my 970 and it is zoomed to fit the screen but it comes out somewhat pixelated, is there anyway to adjust this. I have a pansat reciever and my old 13year old tube sony seems to have a better picture than this does! what is my problem

My Sony KDF-60XS955 took a crap today. all i can say is that the red stanby led flahes 6 times, and repeats itself. any help out there on what this may mean

Yours is a 60" - so it's likely not a CRT like mine - but on occasion, after exiting the SM, my TV will do that. After the lights flash, the tube never turns on. The first time it did it, I nearly had a heart attack - but I unplugged the set for 1 minute, and plugged it back in. Viola! It turned back on. It's only done this to me a couple other times, and to fix it, I've had to do the same thing.

Perhaps you could give it a try before having a tech come out. ;)

Worth a shot anyhow. :)

is there any specific settings that are universal or does it vary by tv? i am a noob to this so anyhelp will be greatly apprecoated. my problem is that i have international free tv on my 970 and it is zoomed to fit the screen but it comes out somewhat pixelated, is there anyway to adjust this. I have a pansat reciever and my old 13year old tube sony seems to have a better picture than this does! what is my problem

Pixelation isn't a BAD thing, perse - it just means that your TV is very well adjusted, and very sharply focused. Soo much so, that you can make out the grainy, pixelated look of low resolution SD signals. You're seeing that "Raw" picture on your HD set much more than you did on your old one.

Best cure I can reccomend for this is to simply "Simulate" the (likely) poor image rendition of your lower resolution, older picture tube - by lowering the sharpness settings in the user menu, and disabling Velocity Scan Modulation. The added "Fuzziness" should make it look more at home on your HD set, if it takes that annoyance of signal grain out. Unfortunately, that's causing you to run away from why you buy HD in the first place - natural image rendition with extreme resolution and clarity.

It's up to you - but that's the best I can recommend. And if you think SD is grainy though analog inputs, you aught to see 480P through HDMI! MAN, it even bothers me - and I'm all about wanting to see each little pixel clearly!

Awesome find on the AXIS settings Napoleon D. Very much appreciated. I've applied your findings to all my SM settings, and have had amazing uniformity of coler decoder settings on ALL inputs and screen resolutions now. Only problem I have, is that when using my PS3 with HDMI (the only HDMI 1.3 device I own), 480P shares the same AXIS setting with 720P, and 1080i - but the color decoder settings for 480P are seemingly very strong on the red end of the spectrum. Whenever I change the AXIS for 480P over HDMI, it changes the 720P and 1080i AXIS value to match - soo I cannot achieve anywhere near a balence between 480P and the other resolutions on HDMI - yet. If you find this to be a problem aswell, do share any solutions you find.

AVSUSer-

Do you have an extra component cable lying around? Does the PS3 accept component? If so, why don't you plug both HDMI and component into the machine. This way you'll have 2 different inputs in your display for the PS3, one you can use for 480p and one for the rest. This way you CAN have 2 different sets of colors.

I've heard for certain displays component is either better or the image looks exactly the same as HDMI. I have a RP-CRT which that applies to.

That's too bad the color decoding changes so much over 3 resolutions. What kind of tv do you have? Are you saying you can't find a color-decoder setting that compromises with all of the resolutions?

15-13-6-4 is the holy grail with my set. Although this is over component for both HDTV and DVD. Are you sure that produces too much red on 480p for you? I thought that at first, but it was because i wasn't used to what looked correct. Also, certain dvd players apparently yield different colors, which baffles me.

AVSUSer-

Do you have an extra component cable lying around? Does the PS3 accept component? If so, why don't you plug both HDMI and component into the machine. This way you'll have 2 different inputs in your display for the PS3, one you can use for 480p and one for the rest. This way you CAN have 2 different sets of colors.

I've heard for certain displays component is either better or the image looks exactly the same as HDMI. I have a RP-CRT which that applies to.

That's too bad the color decoding changes so much over 3 resolutions. What kind of tv do you have? Are you saying you can't find a color-decoder setting that compromises with all of the resolutions?

15-13-6-4 is the holy grail with my set. Although this is over component for both HDTV and DVD. Are you sure that produces too much red on 480p for you? I thought that at first, but it was because i wasn't used to what looked correct. Also, certain dvd players apparently yield different colors, which baffles me.

15-13-6-4 is the perfect color decoder setting for my CRT 34" Sony KD-34XBR960. The color decoder settings are not the apperent problem - the ability of the TV to hold a unique AXIS setting for each resolution is the issue. 480i-1080i through component video yield nearly identical color tone settings - but through HDMI, the AXIS looks best at 1 with 720P and 1080i, but at 480P it looks best at 0. Unfotunately, the TV has only one AXIS settings for all HDMI resolutions. 0 takes the red push out of 480P, and makes the color decoder nearly perfect - but it must be set to 1 in order for the color decoding to be perfect in 720P and 1080i. I haven't been able to find a way to resolve this.

According to the Service Code listing for my model, each resolution should have it's own unique AXIS setting applicable - but that is seemingly not the case. I might jsut have to live with not using 480P over HDMI. And as fasr as running PS3 on both Component and HDMI - I'll stick with HDMI, as it's a much better image, with far less ringing and color bleeding, especially in 720P. The PS3 cannot output from more than one input at a time for either audio or video. It's HDMI or Component, HDMI-Audio or Optical - not both. :(

Soo - all I can do is keep tweaking, trying to get the most out of it. :D I'll get back to you if I figure it out. Thank you for the help, and for getting back to me.

I have an xbr960 and an xs955, the 960 was bought used the 955 NIB. I have noticed some slight geometry problems with the 960 and what appears to be perfect geometry with the 955. Picture quality on both seem to be comparable with same settings. The problem and/or question I have is with the 955 on with no signal input meaning blank screen, I believe it should be completely black. What I am seeing is a slightly red tinted screen with red lines running from left to right about one inch apart from top to bottom. The lines are not perfectly horizontal with the tube but are with each other. On the left side the lines will start out about an inch from the border of the tube and slightly bow down and then up, like a smile, and end on the right side even with the tube. It was brand new a month or two ago at the most so I figured some burn in time would possibly lessen the effect or even get rid of it. Well of course that is not the case. With a signal input the lines are still visible but less noticeable except when viewing a dark show like LOST. I have not noticed this same problem on my 960, I believe this to be an actual problem. I have read the enormous 960 and 955 threads. I may have read about this problem and a fix for it, but given how long it took me to read those and how much information is in those threads I just don't remember. I tried doing a search but of course do not know exactly what to call this problem, so the search yielded unrelated items. Any help would be appreciated.

Hi.
When I bring up TWIN mode on my XBR960, the screen rolls from top to bottom. This only happens on the Right picture.
Any fix or adjustments for this?

AVSUser - I'm a little confused when you say that changing the Axis has any difference on what you're seeing, or when you say "the AXIS looks best at 1 with 720P and 1080i."

As far as i know, and i could be wrong, the Axis button ONLY serves as a grouping-value, which affects only the 4 color-decoding values. Pretend you have 4 identical garages each with a different color car. If you change which garage you use, you change the look of the car inside. If you take the same red car and put one in each garage, then changing the garage makes no difference anymore.

You mentioned that changing Axis in one example gets rid of the red-push for 480p. It's not the Axis you should be focusing on, it's the color-decoding entires linked to each Axis. The only reason Axis-0 gets rid of a red push is because the color-decoding linked to that value just happens to have a lower red setting - this is the factory setting. You can change that.

When you change Axis from 1 to 0, you will then notice that the 4 color-values (RYR-GYB), which come right after Axis in the menu, change along with it. Try setting Axis to 0, and then change the colors to 15-13-6-4, hit save.... If you were then to change Axis to 1, you will see different colors. Why? If you go forward you will then see that the color-decoding is at a different pattern now, as it was the pattern that is stored for that specific Axis. Having Axis at 1, then change the colors to 15-13-6-4, and hit save. Now if you change the Axis back from 1 to 0, you will notice zero change in the colors.

I could be wrong about this, as i've only tried this over component only. But from all i've seen, the Axis is nothing more than a storage value that affects nothing except the 4 color decoding values that follow it. If you set the 4 color decoders to be indentical under each Axis value, in the future you will see no change when changing the Axis value.

This is exactly like the "MIDE" setting (which goes from 1-60), changing it only makes a difference because it effects 20 sub-values. If you went through each MIDE setting, and then set each of the 20 sub-values to the same pattern 60 times, then in the future when you change MIDE, every MIDE value would look the same.

If you already know this, or if there's something i'm missing let me know.

For you, i'm guessing that you can only have a single Axis setting for each input. In other words, the Axis setting is global for all resolutions on one input.

AVSUser - I'm a little confused when you say that changing the Axis has any difference on what you're seeing, or when you say "the AXIS looks best at 1 with 720P and 1080i."

As far as i know, and i could be wrong, the Axis button ONLY serves as a grouping-value, which affects only the 4 color-decoding values. Pretend you have 4 identical garages each with a different color car. If you change which garage you use, you change the look of the car inside. If you take the same red car and put one in each garage, then changing the garage makes no difference anymore.

You mentioned that changing Axis in one example gets rid of the red-push for 480p. It's not the Axis you should be focusing on, it's the color-decoding entires linked to each Axis. The only reason Axis-0 gets rid of a red push is because the color-decoding linked to that value just happens to have a lower red setting - this is the factory setting. You can change that.

When you change Axis from 1 to 0, you will then notice that the 4 color-values (RYR-GYB), which come right after Axis in the menu, change along with it. Try setting Axis to 0, and then change the colors to 15-13-6-4, hit save.... If you were then to change Axis to 1, you will see different colors. Why? If you go forward you will then see that the color-decoding is at a different pattern now, as it was the pattern that is stored for that specific Axis. Having Axis at 1, then change the colors to 15-13-6-4, and hit save. Now if you change the Axis back from 1 to 0, you will notice zero change in the colors.

I could be wrong about this, as i've only tried this over component only. But from all i've seen, the Axis is nothing more than a storage value that affects nothing except the 4 color decoding values that follow it. If you set the 4 color decoders to be indentical under each Axis value, in the future you will see no change when changing the Axis value.

This is exactly like the "MIDE" setting (which goes from 1-60), changing it only makes a difference because it effects 20 sub-values. If you went through each MIDE setting, and then set each of the 20 sub-values to the same pattern 60 times, then in the future when you change MIDE, every MIDE value would look the same.

If you already know this, or if there's something i'm missing let me know.

For you, i'm guessing that you can only have a single Axis setting for each input. In other words, the Axis setting is global for all resolutions on one input.


Ok - well - where to start. From what I've read in the SM data table for my 960 - HDMI can have dynamicly assigned color tone based on a digital value assigned during the handshake - a U_Tiny bit value that determines the AXIS value.

With my TV - changing the AXIS, does not change the actual integer values of the color decored values. The 15-13-6-4 is applied globally, to all inputs, at all resolutions, to all AXIS values - as is the GAMM setting, and the GAMR/GAMB/GAMG settings. None of those settings change based on Input, resolution, or AXIS setting. They are all shared. With Component, 480i and 480P share a common AXIS setting - and 720P and 1080i also share a unique axis setting. With HDMI - only one AXIS setting is saved for all 3 resolutions - 480P/720P/1080i - I cannot assign a unique AXIS value to 480P to correct the RED offeset - since it wont save it, and because the AXIS value does not effect the values of the color decoder, nor does it change them from my global 15-13-6-4 setting.

I really wish it worked like you describe - it's bothersome that the highest fidelity input on the TV happens to have a color decoder discrepency. I THINK - I have managed to remedy the issue today - by applying AXIS = 0 to 480P - making perfect color deconding there - and saving it. Going into 720P and 1080i and looking at color calibration patterns after power cycling the TV to force a handshake, it appears to have fixed the problem. I have yet to go back into the SM and turn off the individual guns to see the result - but to the eye, the color levels of R, G and B look perfectly even, as they do in 480P through HDMI.

This is seemingly a quirk with the firmware on the TV - but unfortunately, new firmware cannot be added. Soo - this is where I'm at. The other issue I have, is that black level through HDMI is MUCH deeper than through other sources. I can crang up the SBOF value till the screen glows slightly - but even with 5% shadow visible, the blacks seem to be culled - this is with DC current modulation off, BLK set to 0, YLMT set to 1 (off) - and all other black level limiters disabled. It seems that this is only an (apparent) issue with HDMI in HD - as I don't notice the issue in 480P through HDMI.

My biggest problem now is taking the back of the TV off and performing a static convergence adjustment on horizontal lines. The TV must've been banged a little during shipping, and for a TV of it's size - it seems to be off quite a bit. One question - you have a CRT RPTV correct? You had an ISF calibrator adjust it right? Did he have to wear any protective eye-wear or clothing during the calibration of the CRT convergence? I'm just playing it safe until I hear back from someone who has whitnessed it first-hand.

Thanks soo much for helping me with this. :)

So, I fixed my problem but I can't figure out how to get out of service mode. Please help me!

To give a bit more details there is this a screen stuck on my TV. There are three titles: Front End, In Band (FAT), Out of Band (FDC). I have a pic of it but forum rules won't allow me to post it.

I've tried the log in to service combo again but that didn't take me out of it. It just put the service menu over the top of this screen. I even tried unplugging the TV to see if it would go back. Please help as I'm freaking out that I might have screwed up my TV.

I have a KD-34XBR970. Help, please.

To give a bit more details there is this a screen stuck on my TV. There are three titles: Front End, In Band (FAT), Out of Band (FDC).

I think that's one of the QM "Info" screens, if I recall correctly. If so, You can easily accidently write the value which leaves one of those screens up(or from the QM PATN section) without knowing you did so. But, thankfully it's just as easy to Write QM/#0 - info to "0" (the "#0 -info" screens have values of 1~7 or more, 0 turns them off) and get it off there. See here for more detailed info(except substitute QM "#0 - Info" where he says #1-PATN) :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8430148&&#post8430148

I think that's one of the QM "Info" screens, if I recall correctly. If so, You can easily accidently write the value which leaves one of those screens up(or from the QM PATN section) without knowing you did so. But, thankfully it's just as easy to Write QM/#0 - info to "0" (the "#0 -info" screens have values of 1~7 or more, 0 turns them off) and get it off there. See here for more detailed info(except substitute QM "#0 - Info" where he says #1-PATN) :


God bless you. That was exactly it. I really, really appreciate you helping me with this. I think I set off some other stuff that I'll have to fix tomorrow but at least it's watchable now. Thank you again, I appreciate it.

I have yet another question about overscan. I know adjusting vpos and hpos can negatively effect geometry... but does vsiz and hsiz also effect geometry? I know your suppose to adjust them both the same. Like if you take vsiz down two clicks your suppose to do the same with hsiz. thanks

I have yet another question about overscan. I know adjusting vpos and hpos can negatively effect geometry... but does vsiz and hsiz also effect geometry? I know your suppose to adjust them both the same. Like if you take vsiz down two clicks your suppose to do the same with hsiz. thanks

Absolutely. If you screw with the VSIZ, you need to adjust HSIZ as well. If you are trying to fix a problem like everyones head looks fat or too tall, then you adjust them seperately. If you are just trying to get rid of underscan or overscan, then adjust both together like if you adjust VSIZ from 24 to 34, then adjust the HSIZ up 10 points. There is a disclaimer though. Due to the flat tube design, the picture at the extreme left and right does tend to stretch and will give you false readings on your adjustments. To get the best results when adjusting V and HSIZ is to have a circle pattern in the center of the screen where there is the least amount of stretching or warping to make sure that the picture is sized correctly. I recommend using the THX optimizer if you don't already have a test pattern DVD. The optimizer can be found on some DVDs. Pearl Harbor has it for sure, but it's not the only movie that does.

I now have a question that perhaps someone can answer. I have a Sony 970. I have just discovered that on any source at 480i, my blacks and gray tones have a heavy greenish tint to them. However on 480p, 720p, and 1080i, the halftones are all normal. I checked this out with the tv's self genertated gray scale test patterns in the tech rep mode and sure enough, 1080i, 720p, and 480p were all normal except for 480i. The 480i gray scale has a strong presence of green. I was wondering if there is possibly a gamma or RGB gun adjustment for each resolution in the tech rep mode.

I have yet another question about overscan. I know adjusting vpos and hpos can negatively effect geometry... but does vsiz and hsiz also effect geometry? I know your suppose to adjust them both the same. Like if you take vsiz down two clicks your suppose to do the same with hsiz. thanksI don't understand how this perspective came to be "gospel", that the very service menu controls provided by Sony to adjust overscan/geometry are somehow NOT to be used to control overscan/geometry without fear of doing some terrible harm! I believe it is simply a matter of doing the adjustments carefully and appropriately, using all of the available and appropriate service menu items...and you will end up with perfection (at least to your eyes, since this whole process is at least somewhat subjective, not to mention a function of each individual set and whether or not you've also had some Sony service technician magnet work done on your set's picture tube and how well that effort turned out... remembering that this is an ANALOG device with a rectangular flat picture tube and its resulting inherent imperfections).

For newcomers to this thread who haven't read every post, I suggest looking at my earlier post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9156830&&#post9156830) which provides a colorized Excel spreadsheet showing my USER MENU settings in rows 1-74 and SERVICE MENU settings in rows 75-later, for my 34XBR960.

Your mileage may vary, but what's obvious from my settings shown in this spreadsheet is that I have used ALL of the available adjustments to obtain rectangular perfection (to my eyes, as best as can be obtained with my particular 34XBR960 and the results of my Sony service technician picture tube magnet job).

And the blow-by-blow of how I used all available controls in 2170D-1, 2170D-2, and MID3, along with an overscan test pattern (if you can connect your PC to your Sony set) if you don't have DVE or AVIA, is described in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6764404&&#post6764404). Just be sure to follow the imbedded backward links in that post, to get all editorializing and specifics.

Bottom line: I learned about ALL of the available service menu adjustments for geometry/overscan from KenTech's wonderful treatises that started this thread. And this pretty much boiled down to a handful of controls in 2170D-1, 2170D-2, and MID3 (at least for the 720p/1080i inputs, since I watch just about 100% HDTV-only on my set, from OTA or cable/DVR). I'm not as concerned with 480i (and honestly not even with 480p, since I very very rarely watch DVDs) although I do sometimes watch 480i from D* via S-video on my set.

Early on in this thread I never saw any warnings about NOT using MID3 to complete the geometry/overscan adjustments started in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2, and I have never been able complete those adjustments without using MID3. Somehow, these "warnings" came to life only fairly recently, but (not to be flippant) I have disregarded them. All the controls are required to adjust the background and foreground components which produce the resulting image onscreen, and in my opinion they must all be used.

I am new to this but would like to move the overall picture up and to the left for every input and setting. Will changing HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1, 2170D-2 do it? Should I just adjust the vertical adjustment in the user menu and horizontal in the SM? I am trying to keep this as easy as possible for myself. I have read through this thread and I am confused if I also need to adjust HNCT and/or settings in MID2/3? any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

I am new to this but would like to move the overall picture up and to the left for every input and setting. Will changing HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1, 2170D-2 do it? Should I just adjust the vertical adjustment in the user menu and horizontal in the SM? I am trying to keep this as easy as possible for myself. I have read through this thread and I am confused if I also need to adjust HNCT and/or settings in MID2/3? any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks(1) Whatever you decide to try and change (to see what happens, and to decide for yourself whether or not your problem is completely resolved to your satisfaction), be sure and write down all of the current values for these settings before you change anything. That way you can always put things back the way they were before you started fooling around.

(2) You MUST have a stationary test pattern to use for your controlled primary adjustments, provided either by a calibration DVD (e.g. Digital Video Essentials). Don't think you can accomplish anything good with a "live" and moving picture from real content.

(3) Personally, in my 34XBR960 case all of the vertical adjustments in the user menu are unaltered from their 0 position (as they came from the factory). I used only the service menu to move things around.

(4) I believe that the horizontal and vertical size and position controls in the service menu are "global", in that you don't have to go to every input uniquely and accept every HD resolution on the HD inputs uniquely in order to set the geometry/overscan for the set. I believe what you set becomes effective for all inputs. This can be seen by my spreadsheet since adjustments were done only using one input and resolution and yet all of those same setting values seem to have gotten propagated to all inputs and resolutions columns.

(5) In 2170D-1 I used 0 (VPOS vertical position) and 1 (VSIZ vertical size) to adjust the "background" vertically. In 2170D-2 I used only 1 (HPOS horizontal position) and 2 (HSIZ horizontal size) to adjust the "background" horizontally. In MID3 I used 0 (VDHP horizontal position), 1 (VDHS horizontal size), 2 (VDVE vertical position) and 3 (VDVS vertical size) to manipulate the "foreground image" on top of the "background".

(6) Your description of a desire to move your picture "up and to the left" (though you haven't added what input or resolution you're looking at) has a vertical and horizontal component to it, so you will probably need to use all of the vertical and horizontal controls... in the service menu, not user menu. Just be sure you have all of your initial values written down first. And be sure and adjust ONE CLICK AT A TIME, to see what happens onscreen. Did that do the trick, or do you need ONE MORE CLICK? Slow and steady, go back and forth, better or worse, etc.

(7) Also, inevitably you have to return to an item you've already adjusted and moved on because you thought that one was finished, just to see whether your initial setting is still ok or perhaps has been affected by some other later adjustment somewhere else. It will be easy to test whether it's still good or bad by just ONE CLICK up/down or left/right, to view the effect and decide whether you should leave things as they are or go with the new setting or reverse directions or whatever. Slow and steady.

(8) Write your adjusted values down as you settle on them.

(9) Horizontal and vertical SIZE adjustments allow you to manipulate "overscan", and I'm sure that you'll want to look at that as well. With a proper stationary test pattern (cross-hatched, with grid marks that show percentages) you will be able to work on this as well. It'll be easy to see how much of the pattern's perimeter edges has been "cropped out" by the overscan settings, and then how much you can bring cleanly back in (without introducing edge anomalies or video noise) by your adjustments.

(10) Again... write everything down when you start, before you change any particular value. And then write your ending/adjusted values down as well. If you want you can certainly use my spreadsheet as a starting point for your own reference, but I can't promise that the XBR960 and XS955 service menu items and default values are the same. However you can obviously modify your copy of my spreadsheet as needed.

And do your experimenting and adjustment ONE CLICK AT A TIME, observing what happens on the screen... better or worse.


Good luck.

Hey everyone:

Ok, I have been reading this forum for a couple days, and am getting a headache. Information overload. I don't mind going into the SM, but I was wondering if anyone has a list of settings for the 36xs955? I realize each tv is different, but I figure if I had a complete list, I could write down my current settings, change them all to the settings of someone who has had success with the same set, then fine tune for my specific tv. It would save me a great deal of time and aggravation. I currently have the above mentioned tv, Yamaha 661 receiver, directv HR20-100 DVR, Oppo 981 DVD, and a nice VCR that i rarely use and could care less about. I have my DVR and DVD hooked up to the receiver via HDMI, and the receiver to the TV via HDMI. The VCR is hooked up via component. My biggest concerns are the clearest HD and SD signals possible (with more emphasis on HD), as well as the problem this Sony seems to have with compressing HD images, i.e. when watching HD the tv seems to compress it into a narrow horizontal strip....almost like compressing the normal letterbox image twice. I use the verical expand to see more image, but even that does not seem to expand it as far as it should (when I bought the set, I was told it would give a 33" HD letterbox picture,,,,it is nowhere near that). I don't know if anything can be done about the HD compression, but any help would be greatly appreciated, as well as the starting points in the SM. I know all of you have spent a great deal of time learning this stuff, and I plan to do so as well, but right now I need something to give me a better picture before I lose my mind. Thanks in advance.

(1) Whatever you decide to try and change (to see what happens, and to decide for yourself whether or not your problem is completely resolved to your satisfaction), be sure and write down all of the current values for these settings before you change anything. That way you can always put things back the way they were before you started fooling around.

(2) You MUST have a stationary test pattern to use for your controlled primary adjustments, provided either by a calibration DVD (e.g. Digital Video Essentials). Don't think you can accomplish anything good with a "live" and moving picture from real content.

(3) Personally, in my 34XBR960 case all of the vertical adjustments in the user menu are unaltered from their 0 position (as they came from the factory). I used only the service menu to move things around.

(4) I believe that the horizontal and vertical size and position controls in the service menu are "global", in that you don't have to go to every input uniquely and accept every HD resolution on the HD inputs uniquely in order to set the geometry/overscan for the set. I believe what you set becomes effective for all inputs. This can be seen by my spreadsheet since adjustments were done only using one input and resolution and yet all of those same setting values seem to have gotten propagated to all inputs and resolutions columns.

(5) In 2170D-1 I used 0 (VPOS vertical position) and 1 (VSIZ vertical size) to adjust the "background" vertically. In 2170D-2 I used only 1 (HPOS horizontal position) and 2 (HSIZ horizontal size) to adjust the "background" horizontally. In MID3 I used 0 (VDHP horizontal position), 1 (VDHS horizontal size), 2 (VDVE vertical position) and 3 (VDVS vertical size) to manipulate the "foreground image" on top of the "background".

(6) Your description of a desire to move your picture "up and to the left" (though you haven't added what input or resolution you're looking at) has a vertical and horizontal component to it, so you will probably need to use all of the vertical and horizontal controls... in the service menu, not user menu. Just be sure you have all of your initial values written down first. And be sure and adjust ONE CLICK AT A TIME, to see what happens onscreen. Did that do the trick, or do you need ONE MORE CLICK? Slow and steady, go back and forth, better or worse, etc.

(7) Also, inevitably you have to return to an item you've already adjusted and moved on because you thought that one was finished, just to see whether your initial setting is still ok or perhaps has been affected by some other later adjustment somewhere else. It will be easy to test whether it's still good or bad by just ONE CLICK up/down or left/right, to view the effect and decide whether you should leave things as they are or go with the new setting or reverse directions or whatever. Slow and steady.

(8) Write your adjusted values down as you settle on them.

(9) Horizontal and vertical SIZE adjustments allow you to manipulate "overscan", and I'm sure that you'll want to look at that as well. With a proper stationary test pattern (cross-hatched, with grid marks that show percentages) you will be able to work on this as well. It'll be easy to see how much of the pattern's perimeter edges has been "cropped out" by the overscan settings, and then how much you can bring cleanly back in (without introducing edge anomalies or video noise) by your adjustments.

(10) Again... write everything down when you start, before you change any particular value. And then write your ending/adjusted values down as well. If you want you can certainly use my spreadsheet as a starting point for your own reference, but I can't promise that the XBR960 and XS955 service menu items and default values are the same. However you can obviously modify your copy of my spreadsheet as needed.

And do your experimenting and adjustment ONE CLICK AT A TIME, observing what happens on the screen... better or worse.


Good luck.

DSperber, thanks for your detailed response. This forum is a wonderful resource. Currently I am using and HD cable box hooked through component and a sony dvd player through HDMI. I have used the Avia DVD images to test the DVD player through HDMI and some pictures through component/cable box. Both are upscaling to 1080i. So I guess I have not tested other resolutions other than 1080i. both inputs seem to be off about the same, a little to the right and a little down. I think 2-3 clicks to the left and 2-3 clicks up would fix it. Right now I am not going to mess with VSIZ and HSIZ. I am confused with why I also need to make these changes in MID3 too. Just changing HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1/2 would not do it? I do not seem to have the MID3 adjustments you have mentioned in MID3 or any MID. I have also noticed when reading the manual it states something about adjusting AGNG and HBLK when doing these adjustments. Do I need to adjust these too even if I am only adjusting HPOS and VPOS not VSIZ/HSIZ? Thanks

both inputs seem to be off about the same, a little to the right and a little down. I think 2-3 clicks to the left and 2-3 clicks up would fix it. Right now I am not going to mess with VSIZ and HSIZ.If you get what you want, then that's all you need to touch.


I am confused with why I also need to make these changes in MID3 too. Just changing HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1/2 would not do it?A picture's worth a thousand words. Just write down what you start from and you can always go back to that if you think you ended up worse.

Think Photoshop. 2170D-1/2 affects H/V size/position of the background (i.e. "canvas"), on top of which MID3 affects H/V size/position of the foreground layers (i.e. "image") which can be resized and moved around independently of the background (canvas) on which it is overlayed. It may seem overly complex, but there really are two components (background and foreground) to how Sony's implemented the display and its adjustments. And you can adjust both components independently.

But the best way for you to see this is to actually play with it. Start off with 2170D-1/2 and do the clicks you think are appropriate. Watch the test pattern on the screen as you do this. Then, try each of the four controls in MID3 and see what happens to the edges of the test pattern. You will see more or less of that pattern as you touch those four MID3 controls, and it will now be apparent to you just what you're adjusting with MID3 that's different from what you did with 2170D-1/2. Personally, I believe proper adjustment includes MID3 tweaks, but YMMV.


If I do need to makes changes in MID3 should I do those before or after I make changes to 2170D-1/2?I'd say start with 2170D-1/2, and then go to MID3. But I'm sure you'll then come back to 2170D-1/2 to see what happens if you now add or subtract one more click there... and then go back to MID3, etc., until you've finally got "perfection" to your eyes.


I have also noticed when reading the manual it states something about adjusting AGNG and HBLK when doing these adjustments. Do I need to adjust these too even if I am only adjusting HPOS and VPOS not VSIZ/HSIZ?Well I do believe that is the proper technique according to some very skilled people who've contributed to this thread. But in my own personal case I didn't touch those (I actually didn't know about them at the time I did my tweaks) and I really don't know that it made any difference. I was still able to get my overscan to where I wanted it even without temporarily uncovering the edges of the screen through those controls. However I do believe you're right, those controls should be used... at least when working on overscan.

If you get what you want, then that's all you need to touch.


A picture's worth a thousand words. Just write down what you start from and you can always go back to that if you think you ended up worse.

Think Photoshop. 2170D-1/2 affects H/V size/position of the background (i.e. "canvas"), on top of which MID3 affects H/V size/position of the foreground layers (i.e. "image") which can be resized and moved around independently of the background (canvas) on which it is overlayed. It may seem overly complex, but there really are two components (background and foreground) to how Sony's implemented the display and its adjustments. And you can adjust both components independently.

But the best way for you to see this is to actually play with it. Start off with 2170D-1/2 and do the clicks you think are appropriate. Watch the test pattern on the screen as you do this. Then, try each of the four controls in MID3 and see what happens to the edges of the test pattern. You will see more or less of that pattern as you touch those four MID3 controls, and it will now be apparent to you just what you're adjusting with MID3 that's different from what you did with 2170D-1/2. Personally, I believe proper adjustment includes MID3 tweaks, but YMMV.


I'd say start with 2170D-1/2, and then go to MID3. But I'm sure you'll then come back to 2170D-1/2 to see what happens if you now add or subtract one more click there... and then go back to MID3, etc., until you've finally got "perfection" to your eyes.


Well I do believe that is the proper technique according to some very skilled people who've contributed to this thread. But in my own personal case I didn't touch those (I actually didn't know about them at the time I did my tweaks) and I really don't know that it made any difference. I was still able to get my overscan to where I wanted it even without temporarily uncovering the edges of the screen through those controls. However I do believe you're right, those controls should be used... at least when working on overscan.

DSperber, thanks again. I believe I was editing my post when you responded to me. I do not seem to have the MID3 adjustments you mention. I have looked at the service manual and do not see them anywhere, is that possible? Another question I have is, will changing the settings in 2170D-1/2 only work for the resolution I am using globally? Should I mess with HCNT? What is the difference with adjusting HPOS compared to HCNT? Some people seem to recommend adjusting HCNT while others HPOS? Hopefully this is the last of my questions. I really appreciate your time in responding.

I do not seem to have the MID3 adjustments you mention. I have looked at the service manual and do not see them anywhere, is that possible?I have a 34XBR960, and that's all I'm familiar with firsthand I'm afraid. My spreadsheet thus is specifically for a 34XBR960 of my firmware level.

Only someone else with a 34XS955 can really answer your question.

However I have worked on my cousin's older XBR800 which also did not have MID3, and instead there were similar (but differently named) controls in MID1 which seemed to be relevant. His MID1 did not match the MID1 of the XBR960 list. However as I recall there was something different about the whole approach for that set and either I actually didn't need to adjust MID1 or it didn't accomplish what I wanted or something. Can't recall. I think for his set the 2170D-1/2 adjustments were all I had to work with but ended up sufficient to do the job, without MID1 or MID3.

Anyway, I really can only speak for the XBR960, not the XS955.


Another question I have is, will changing the settings in 2170D-1/2 only work for the resolution I am using globally?As my spreadsheet shows, I only adjusted in these two groups at one input/resolution, and yet the adjusted values appear to have been propagated to all inputs/resolutions.

I'd say the adjustments are "global".


Should I mess with HCNT? What is the difference with adjusting HPOS compared to HCNT? Some people seem to recommend adjusting HCNT while others HPOS?My spreadsheet shows both values at 32(31), meaning the value has been tweaked from the official service menu default. As to whether I did that, or Sony factory did it and I got it that way... I don't remember.

But just try it for yourself and see what happens. These are all controls which apparently have some effect on the result, else why are they there? You can always put it back if it doesn't look improved, as long as you wrote down and know what value you started from.

I'm sure there will be other controls you'll begin to fool with, to perhaps try and address issues of convergence, linearity, curvature, bowing, etc. And since your set is different from my set, and I've had a Sony tech do magnet work on my picture tube, it's guaranteed that my other significant adjustments in 2170D-1/2 and D-CONV will NOT be directly transferrable to your set (not to mention that I have an XBR960 and you have an XS955). And yet, you're free to experiment with these yourself if you have other imperfections you'd like to try and address (using your test pattern, of course).

<<waiting patiently for a response to my earlier post.

I have a 34XBR960, and that's all I'm familiar with firsthand I'm afraid. My spreadsheet thus is specifically for a 34XBR960 of my firmware level.

Only someone else with a 34XS955 can really answer your question.

However I have worked on my cousin's older XBR800 which also did not have MID3, and instead there were similar (but differently named) controls in MID1 which seemed to be relevant. His MID1 did not match the MID1 of the XBR960 list. However as I recall there was something different about the whole approach for that set and either I actually didn't need to adjust MID1 or it didn't accomplish what I wanted or something. Can't recall. I think for his set the 2170D-1/2 adjustments were all I had to work with but ended up sufficient to do the job, without MID1 or MID3.

Anyway, I really can only speak for the XBR960, not the XS955.


As my spreadsheet shows, I only adjusted in these two groups at one input/resolution, and yet the adjusted values appear to have been propagated to all inputs/resolutions.

I'd say the adjustments are "global".


My spreadsheet shows both values at 32(31), meaning the value has been tweaked from the official service menu default. As to whether I did that, or Sony factory did it and I got it that way... I don't remember.

But just try it for yourself and see what happens. These are all controls which apparently have some effect on the result, else why are they there? You can always put it back if it doesn't look improved, as long as you wrote down and know what value you started from.

I'm sure there will be other controls you'll begin to fool with, to perhaps try and address issues of convergence, linearity, curvature, bowing, etc. And since your set is different from my set, and I've had a Sony tech do magnet work on my picture tube, it's guaranteed that my other significant adjustments in 2170D-1/2 and D-CONV will NOT be directly transferrable to your set (not to mention that I have an XBR960 and you have an XS955). And yet, you're free to experiment with these yourself if you have other imperfections you'd like to try and address (using your test pattern, of course).

DSperber, thanks for your responses. I made adjustments to HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1/2 last night and all seems well. I am now going to try tinkering with overscan this weekend and try to find the MID settings for these adjustments. I really appreciate your thorough responses. I have learned a great deal in the last two days.
thanks

DSperber, thanks for your responses. I made adjustments to HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1/2 last night and all seems well. I am now going to try tinkering with overscan this weekend and try to find the MID settings for these adjustments. I really appreciate your thorough responses. I have learned a great deal in the last two days.
thanks
If I'm not mistaken, the 955 is the more accurate predecessor to the 970, which I own. On my set, MID position and size adjustments are not completely exclusive to all inputs and screen modes. I have noticed that my component inputs (4 & 5) share MID position settings within a particular screen mode (eg. Full). I'm not sure if this is the case with all the Sony sets or not. I thought everything was independent at first, until I started going crazy switching between the Wii and PS2 using input 4 and 5, respectively. Just something to think about before you start tinkering.

Somewhere in this forum I came across someone asking how to fix this problem(see attachment), and now can't find the post. (got the attachment from browser history).

I have a 32HS500 which has this issue. Was there a fix provided? Or can anybody tell me if this can be fixed?

TIA

So, does there happen to be a XBR970 service manual floating around in this thread anywhere? With this thread being 82 pages it would take an eternity for me to search all of it to find out. Just wondering if any of you guys know offhand.

So, does there happen to be a XBR970 service manual floating around in this thread anywhere? With this thread being 82 pages it would take an eternity for me to search all of it to find out. Just wondering if any of you guys know offhand.

While the service manuel i have is not specific to the XBR970 it does cover all the codes though for the various model of sony tv's such as HS420/XBR970,XBR960,XS955.

And is very detailed on most of the codes functions.

If anybody wants one PM me with your mailing address and $5 ;)

Reason why i ask for $5 is the information is very valuable, it's my bible of the sony gods. :D

I know that RCUT and RDRV both have something to do with the color red, but can anyone explain how or what exactly are these things doing if you change them?

I asked a question on the last page and have not received a reply. So I am thinking either the description I gave for the problem was not good enough, or no one else has had the problem to comment on.

I hope I just did not describe the problem good enough.

Here goes again. My 30-xs955 has a noticeable red tint when no signal is present with slightly more red lines running from left to right. They are not perfectly straight but are perpendicular to each other.

I believe that the background should be completely black when no signal is present. I may be wrong in assuming this but do not believe that I am.

This is present on all inputs, it is visible on tv shows especially dark ones like Lost.

I also have a xbr960 that does not display this particular problem. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

I've been tinkering with the service menu and I've decided that I want to start from scratch. Yet, when I press 7 and/or 9 and turn it off, the settings are the same as when I changed them when I turn the television back on. How do I get the settings back to "factory set"?

The main problem I'm having is that when the shot moves horizontally, it's like it's not spread out equally. Like when something from the side of the screen moves to the middle, it gets skinnier and when it gets to the sides, the object becomes wider. Any help would be grateful. I have a 970, btw.

I've been tinkering with the service menu and I've decided that I want to start from scratch. Yet, when I press 7 and/or 9 and turn it off, the settings are the same as when I changed them when I turn the television back on. How do I get the settings back to "factory set"?

The main problem I'm having is that when the shot moves horizontally, it's like it's not spread out equally. Like when something from the side of the screen moves to the middle, it gets skinnier and when it gets to the sides, the object becomes wider. Any help would be grateful. I have a 970, btw.Please do not attempt any type of reset in the service menu. It will cause you a world of hurt. You should have written down all of your service menu settings PRIOR to making any adjustments so that you could always get back to a factory aligned state.

The main problem you mentioned sounds like the effect of wide zoom screen mode. An explanation of the screen modes can be found in your instruction manual. What mode are you using for these adjustments? You mentioned in another post that you only view DVDs on your set. Anamorphic/enhanced for 16:9 DVDs should be viewed in FULL screen mode while 4:3 DVDs can be viewed in NORMAL screen mode (with black pillars but no stretching) or WIDE ZOOM mode (with no black pillars but with a non-linear stretch).

Please do not attempt any type of reset in the service menu. It will cause you a world of hurt. You should have written down all of your service menu settings PRIOR to making any adjustments so that you could always get back to a factory aligned state.

I did it once before and it just set the settings back to what they were before I went into the service menu.

The main problem you mentioned sounds like the effect of wide zoom screen mode. An explanation of the screen modes can be found in your instruction manual. What mode are you using for these adjustments? You mentioned in another post that you only view DVDs on your set. Anamorphic/enhanced for 16:9 DVDs should be viewed in FULL screen mode while 4:3 DVDs can be viewed in NORMAL screen mode (with black pillars but no stretching) or WIDE ZOOM mode (with no black pillars but with a non-linear stretch).

I'm viewing my DVD's in Full mode. The problem isn't quite as bad as if it were in Wide Zoom, but it's still the same kind of problem, just to a lesser effect.

Could someone tell me which setting in the service menu would help this problem? Or at least explain how to reset the service menu settings? Or does anyone know the defaults for some of the horizontal/vertical settings? I should have played it smart and written down the defaults.

I did it once before and it just set the settings back to what they were before I went into the service menu.

I'm viewing my DVD's in Full mode. The problem isn't quite as bad as if it were in Wide Zoom, but it's still the same kind of problem, just to a lesser effect.

Could someone tell me which setting in the service menu would help this problem? Or at least explain how to reset the service menu settings? Or does anyone know the defaults for some of the horizontal/vertical settings? I should have played it smart and written down the defaults.I don't have the Sony service manual for the XBR970 but have them for every crt set prior.

If you were successful in a previous reset then I'll bet you already have issues. I believe a full NVM (non-volatile memory) reset will default the service menu parameters to a state that is used at the factory PRIOR to factory alignments. You DON'T want to be there. The greatest apparent effect of a reset will be on geometry (your current problem) and convergence (white lines have red/blue borders).

That being said, all prior XBR CRT sets use the following to reset NVM in the service menu. 7, then 9, then enter

BTW, don't do it. Did I say don't do it? :rolleyes: Damn, this thread is dangerous. :eek:

I don't have the Sony service manual for the XBR970 but have them for every crt set prior.

If you were successful in a previous reset then I'll bet you already have issues. I believe a full NVM (non-volatile memory) reset will default the service menu parameters to a state that is used at the factory PRIOR to factory alignments. You DON'T want to be there. The greatest apparent effect of a reset will be on geometry (your current problem) and convergence (white lines have red/blue borders).

That being said, all prior XBR CRT sets use the following to reset NVM in the service menu. 7, then 9, then enter

BTW, don't do it. Did I say don't do it? :rolleyes: Damn, this thread is dangerous. :eek:

This will just reset it to the state that it was when I first hooked it up, correct? It won't affect my contrast, brightness, etc. settings in the regular menu, will it?

Also, does anyone know what the default settings are for the following: SLIN, HCNT, VSCO, VSIZ, and HSIZ? If I know the defaults, it might make a reset seem moot.

I'm also seeing some convergence problems as well, but they aren't bugging me as much as the geometry ones.

This will just reset it to the state that it was when I first hooked it up, correct? It won't affect my contrast, brightness, etc. settings in the regular menu, will it?
No, what raouliii is saying is that this will reset it to it's infant state - before the technicians at the Sony factory set it up. It will likely be nothing at all like it was when you first hooked it up.

Also, does anyone know what the default settings are for the following: SLIN, HCNT, VSCO, VSIZ, and HSIZ? If I know the defaults, it might make a reset seem moot.
There are no "default" settings for the 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 parameters. Since every set is differnet, the technicians at the Sony factory adjust the TV to factory specs, and those settings would be considered the "default" settings for your TV. They're different from the straight-from-the-factory settings for every other TV. AFAIK, if you didn't write those settings down and know what they are, then you don't have them anymore, and there's no way to reset the TV to how it came from the factory.

No, what raouliii is saying is that this will reset it to it's infant state - before the technicians at the Sony factory set it up. It will likely be nothing at all like it was when you first hooked it up.

There are no "default" settings for the 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 parameters. Since every set is differnet, the technicians at the Sony factory adjust the TV to factory specs, and those settings would be considered the "default" settings for your TV. They're different from the straight-from-the-factory settings for every other TV. AFAIK, if you didn't write those settings down and know what they are, then you don't have them anymore, and there's no way to reset the TV to how it came from the factory.

I reset it a couple of days ago and it looked like it did when I first hooked it up. Complete with the bowing on the left hand side of screen. I was just wanting to reset it so that I could just fix that and leave everything else alone.

I reset it a couple of days ago and it looked like it did when I first hooked it up. Complete with the bowing on the left hand side of screen. I was just wanting to reset it so that I could just fix that and leave everything else alone.
I've read too many horror stories in other posts here about people who reset the TV and messed it all up and couldn't get it back to how they wanted it, that I've never been willing to give the reset a try. But maybe Sony changed something with the "reset" functionality on this model, where it does like you say and sets it back to how it was when you first hooked it up, and not back to a pre-factory-setup state. I'm not willing to take the risk to try it to find out, so I can't say whether it will only reset the geometry problems or if it will reset all your user-menu settings and other service-menu settings, too. My suggestion is, if you know what the different geometry-correction functions in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 do, don't bother to try to reset it to how it was from the factory. Just put a good geometry test pattern on the screen and keep going with your corrections until you get it looking good.

I've read too many horror stories in other posts here about people who reset the TV and messed it all up and couldn't get it back to how they wanted it, that I've never been willing to give the reset a try. But maybe Sony changed something with the "reset" functionality on this model, where it does like you say and sets it back to how it was when you first hooked it up, and not back to a pre-factory-setup state. I'm not willing to take the risk to try it to find out, so I can't say whether it will only reset the geometry problems or if it will reset all your user-menu settings and other service-menu settings, too. My suggestion is, if you know what the different geometry-correction functions in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 do, don't bother to try to reset it to how it was from the factory. Just put a good geometry test pattern on the screen and keep going with your corrections until you get it looking good.

When I reset it before, all of my standard menu settings (color, brightness, etc.) stayed the same, but the service menu settings went back to default. Perhaps Sony did change it with this brand.

But I think I've fixed the problem I was having using the HCNT settings and lowering it. At least, I hope. It seems to look right now. :)

I've really messed my Sony up geometry and screen size.

I DID NOT WRITE DOWN THE ORIGINAL VALUES FOR THE SERVICE ITEM. So I'm pretty well messed up right now.

The issue I'm having is I can not get the screen to display the entire frame without setting HSIZ to above 56, which makes the Video input and Screen mode labels be very cut off.
-----------------------------
| |
|ideo6 |
| |
| |
|ull Screen |
-----------------------------

I tried to set the default values as listed in this document:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36480

Frankly once I get to MID1, Item 7 I don't understand which value shoudl be which, so I tried them all and kept the closest one.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I'll type my serive code values below.
I am trying to do this on Video 5 or Video 6 in 1080i mode, using Full Screen (no zoom) as the screen mode.
My VSIZ value is lower becasue the default (39) looks way too stretched.
Here are MY values from the service menus.

2170D-1 210D-2
VPOS - 24 HCNT - 38
VSIZ - 28 HCNT - 38
VSZO - 0 HCNT - 38
VLIN - 4 HCNT - 38
VSCO - 7 HSIZ - 56
VCEN - 19 SLIN - 5
VPIN - 20 MPIN - 10
MVPN - 0 PIN -12
NSCO - 31 UCP - 37
HTPZ - 22 LCP - 43
MHTZ - 0 UXCG - 0
ZOOM - 0 LXCP - 2
APSW - 0 UXCP -2
ASPT - 0 CXPP - 0
SCRL - 31 PPHA - 14
UVLN - 0 VANG - 31
LVLN - 0 LANG - 31
VBOX - 31
LBOW - 31

2107-3
HBLK - 1
LBLK - 50
RBLK - 31
VBLK - 1
TBLK - 4
BBLK - 6
AFCM - 2
JUMP - 0
VDJP - 1
VDST - 0
AKBT - 16


MID-1 MID-3
DHPH - 108 VDHP - 107
DVPH - 35 VDHS - 240
DHAR - 240 VDVE - 19
DVAR - 135 VDVS - 135
DHPW - 55 VDVO - 0
DVPW - 5 VCPO - 72
DYCD - 0 VCWD - 3
DYSD - 1 VYCD - 0
MDHP - 70 VSTP - 133
MDVP - 0 VSTT - 0
MDHS - 204 VHSC - 10
MDVS - 128 VFRV - 0

MLHP - 36
MLVP - 8
SDHP - 167
SDVP - 5
SDHS - 115
SDVS - 79
PDHP - 0
PDVP - 0
PDHS - 0
DPSW - 0
MDLV - 12
BCOL - 0
DYSS - 1
OSDH - 32
OSDV - 16


Thanks in advance,
Tom in San Diego

I've really messed my Sony up geometry and screen size.

I DID NOT WRITE DOWN THE ORIGINAL VALUES FOR THE SERVICE ITEM. So I'm pretty well messed up right now.Since every set varies (and you haven't mentioned what set you actually own), it's hard to provide advice at this point that really might help you out.

But up a bit on this very page you will find my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10329426&&#post10329426) that points to an earlier series of posts, the first of which provides an Excel spreadsheet showing my particular setup for all inputs and resolutions on my KD-34XBR960.

I think you will find that in my settings, my values of 2170D-1, 2170D-2, etc. are VERY DIFFERENT from the values you show as yours currently. Look in the 1080i-C column (amber colored column E in the spreadsheet) for the values you might want to try on your set, at least to begin with although you no doubt will have to make some adjustment for your own unique set.

Since your current values aren't working, and you have tried what was shown in that other "default" (i.e. service manual) PDF and it didn't fix things, and you didn't write down what you started from before you began tweaking, you have nothing to lose it seems by trying my values for my particular XBR960 (if that's your set as well).

Note that my spreadsheet (found in the first link-back post as I mention) shows the actual Sony Service Manual (which I own a copy of) defaults in parentheses, if my settings are other than defaults. Whether the adjust values came from the factory that way (already adjusted), or whether my sony service technician who came to do magnet work on my picture tube to address convergence problems did those adjustments, or whether I did those adjustments (after the magnet work was done)... it matters not. Those are my current settings for my XBR960, and those are the service manual defaults.

Remember... YMMV.

Oh, my bad. my set is the Sony KDXBR960 . How silly of me to write down all that data and not include the model. When I get home tonight I'll try your suggestions. Thanks.

I'm looking for the service code for Tilt correction on a Sony KD27FS170 model. Other models seem to use HTIL or NSCO but those are not available choices for this model.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Since every set varies (and you haven't mentioned what set you actually own), it's hard to provide advice at this point that really might help you out.
Remember... YMMV.
This got me MUCH MUCH CLOSER!!!

The values most helpful were MDHP and MDHS.

Mine Yours
MDHP - 70 MDHP - 0
MDHS - 204 MDHS - 240

These fixed the HSIZ problem
My old HSIZ -56
New HSIZ - 41


Now my 480i input on component is messed up, but I'll fix it yet!!

Thanks for the help.

-Tom

This got me MUCH MUCH CLOSER!!!Excellent news!


The values most helpful were MDHP and MDHS.

Mine Yours
MDHP - 70 MDHP - 0
MDHS - 204 MDHS - 240Interesting, because these are in MID1. As you can see from the chart, there are no changes whatsoever in any MID1 item from the service manual defaults... not by the factory, not by me. I certainly didn't change anything here for my geometry/positioning/overscan adjustments.

It was in MID3 where I worked extensively... using 1080i-C input for my test pattern, along with 2170D-1 and 2170D-2. You can see all of those adjustments in my chart.


These fixed the HSIZ problem
My old HSIZ -56
New HSIZ - 412170D-1 and 2170D-2 adjustments were critical for me, followed up by MID3, and then review of everything and fine tuning and re-review until finished.


Now my 480i input on component is messed up, but I'll fix it yet!!Good luck. I'm sure you'll find the sweet spot.

I very rarely pass through 480i on component, except by accident. I certainly never intentionally watch any SD channels from cable via DVR/component. I only watch HD programming from cable. That's the only reason I have cable at all... for HD.

For me, my occasional viewing of 480i SD on my XBR960 is from D*, using S-video from my Hughes E45/HDR-205 into INPUT1/3 of my XBR960. However my usual viewing of SD (news shows, Daily Show and Colbert, etc.) from D* is on conventional SD televisions, elsewhere around the house.

Honestly, my XBR960 is almost exclusively used for HD only.

New here.
Could some one please post or PM me an updated list of their calibrated service codes for a Sony KV-30HS420. I think I have nick2003's codes from 2006 but wanted a more updated list of calibrated codes if there is one to work from as a starting point as I start my very first self calibration. Thanks!! Wish me luck!

Seriously, is there a service chart for the XBR970? and should i use the DVE disc then go into the SM?? Thanks!

Ok i got a question. Without reading most of this stuff, is kentech a ISF calibrator? or is all this just guess work and stuff that looks "best" through his eyes? From the links in his first post i didn't see anything about what instruments he used for these calibrations.

is all this just guess work

No.

Yea my bad! i see kentech knows what he's doing now after reading through this for hours and hours i did most of the suggested tweaks! I like all the d/l charts and everything, real helpful. I just got a KDxbr970 and i tried to fix the overscan. Thing is when i lowered the parameters to be able to see the picture i in full i couldnt see the outer line on the right side even after messing with the banking levels, RBLK, etc. The only way i was able to get the whole picture inside and be able to see everything was to mess with the settings in the MID1-2 group such as DHPH, DHHP, DHHS etc. But i read a post on here saying DO not mess with these but it was the onyl way i was able to fix my overscan and everything is now perfect. BUT man what a pain in the arse it was doing this for all the picture modes!! I noticed some settings in MID 1 were global and had to leave them, but i was able to fine tune all the other resolutions using the settings in MID3 as they are independent from the others.

So i'm just wondering if this will mess anything up since ken said don't mess with those settings, it was the only way i was able to fix this problem.

Also you know that adjacent color diagram ken posted? well i d/led it to disc and noticed a few colors bleeding over. Not bleeding as in color too high, but like a shadow line of that color. I notice when i chnage the setting in mid5 "POP" to 19 from 20 it goes away, but those settings dont stick. So i'm wondering which of the sharpness enhancers is causing this. I pretty much have them all off! i don't think it can be a YC delay problem.

Not sure is this is a good place to post this request -

The grandkids were here and were playing with the remote. Suddenly, no sound. I believe that there is a set of keystrokes that resulted in this behavior. But 3 & 4 year-olds can't tell you what they did so you can repeat it!

Muting button still toggles indicator ON/OFF though sound stays off (even headphone jacks are off). Volume indicator still changes, but no sound

This happened years ago when the TV came back after servicing. We took it back and they quickly got it out of this mode.

Try speakers On-Off

Purchased a copy of the Service Manual covering this model as well as others and confirmed that ID0, ID1, ID2, ID3, and ID4 were properly configured. That alone was not the problem...

Closer inspection of the manual shows that there is a sound menu for KV-20S30, KV20V60, KV-21RS30C models ONLY. Here is the solution:
Enter Service Mode
Change ID2 from "3" to"11" (make this set think its a KV-20S30)
Write
Turn set Off

Now the menu appears. Turn speakers from OFF to ON. Shut down.
Enter Service Mode
Change ID2 from "11" back to "3"
Write
Turn set Off

Problem solved!!!

Purchased a copy of the Service Manual covering this model as well as others and confirmed that ID0, ID1, ID2, ID3, and ID4 were properly configured. That alone was not the problem...

Closer inspection of the manual shows that there is a sound menu for KV-20S30, KV20V60, KV-21RS30C models ONLY. Here is the solution:
Enter Service Mode
Change ID2 from "3" to"11" (make this set think its a KV-20S30)
Write
Turn set Off

Now the menu appears. Turn speakers from OFF to ON. Shut down.
Enter Service Mode
Change ID2 from "11" back to "3"
Write
Turn set Off

Problem solved!!!

Really? Could you please, please, please, please, please, please scan it and post it?

Oh, wait a minute. Looks like your not talking about the 970. Damn. For some reason I thought I'd clicked on the official 970 thread, lol.

I'm sorry, there are so many questions floating around in this thread, but I'm borderline desperate. My HDMI and component inputs put out a beautiful sharp picture. However, my s-video looks very foggy and lacks immense detail. I discovered this on my Gamecube that the picture just didn't look right, and I hooked it back up to my 27 inch and it looked perfect. Obviously something is way out of adjustment. I already checked all the user modes, and sharpness was at 60. Even if I max sharpness out, the picture looks really bad. Does anyone know of an adjustment to get my s-video to an acceptable level?

Hello

Again I would like to pose a question to someone that may be able to answer it. I have a problem with a light red background with red lines running from left to right the entire screen. The red lines follow the resolution meaning they are spaced about an inch apart at 480i/p and about a 1/4 inch apart at 1080i. If someone that has seen this before reply with an explanation or a fix it would be greatly appreciated. I have attached pictures for visual representation.

Do you see this when watching normal TV? Or just notice it with test patterns? I have the same thing on the bottom lower left of my set, only noticeable when viewing a test pattern pretty much tho. It's the horizontal convergence. I'm pretty sure the only way to fix it is with magnets, depending on the TV. messing with VCEN and VPIN tend to straighten out the lines and get rid of it tho, but i can't find a happy medium, cause too much adjusting and then i get the lines on the top half.

or did i misread your post and this is the only image you see when turning the set on? just a red screen with red lines?

I have what I hope is a simple question. I have found that my 34XS955's component connection geometry is right on. The HDMI connection is low and to the right. I have not permanently changed anything but when messing with 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 I can correct the problem but that changes for every input. How can I adjust only the HDMI's geometry and are the adjustments different for each resolution with the HDMI connection? is it common for the component and hdmi connections to be off?
thanks

Thanks ClayPigeon for the reply. A few pages back I posted a detailed explanation on the problem with no one replying. But here goes again. When TV is turned on with no video source to input 1-7 screen is complete black for a few seconds. Then slowly it turns a light red with the visible darker red lines as is represented in the picture. Each picture represents the entire screen of the TV. As it is left on longer the light red with red lines seem to lessen in intensity. But it does no go away completely. When the video source it turned on the problem is not seen unless there is a very dark scene or show playing. For example when watching Lost I can actually see the red lines from eight feet away, very annoying. What I am asking is this a correctable problem in the service menu, or am I screwed. I also own a xbr960 which does not have this problem. So I am pretty sure its a problem with the set.

Thanks in advance for any advice or help.

Midnite, thats strange. I thought HDMI inputs have seperate settings then everything else? If so make sure you are on the HDMI input channel when changing the settings, this way they only change for that input and not the componet, S-video etc. Yea tho, from what i understand HDMI can be way off from any other input.

Hmm leon. I have no clue :( Does this only happen when turning the set on cold? like if you have it on for a while then quickly shut it off and then restart it again does it still do the same thing? My old sony wega would always start up red when the degaussing circuit kicked in. Maybe your degaussing coil in the set has gone bad and thats why thats happening. That would make sense if it only happens when the set is turned on "cold"

from your picture tho it really looks like the cause of the red lines is a misconvergence of the horizontal lines. Are they bowed like that? or is that just how you drew up the diagram? Still tho even if thats the case that doesn't explain the red background. Wish i could help but i really have no idea. What set is it again?

This is a Sony Wega kd-30xs955.
When I turn it off and back on the red background does not pronounce itself but I do see the horizontal lines.
Yes the lines are bowed approximately like that, they do not start all the way against the left side but they do go all the way into the right side.

This red background with red lines do not affect picture quality. This little 30" set has an outstanding 1080i picture from blueray movies. It also has as far as I can tell perfect geometry and the over scan is at only 5% or a little less. The only noticeable problem is in dark scenes I can make out the red horizontal lines. When at a 1080i resolution the amount of lines are double or triple the 480i/p amount.

Again thank you

yea, thats what i have too. I see red by the bottom of my screen where my set is out of whack. Thing is i don't notice it until i'm "looking" for it. But your problem seems to be going through the WHOLE set. I'm sure if you threw up a test pattern you'd be able to see and adjust it better. I'm guessing if you messed with ( not sure what it is on your set) VCEN- for top bottom bowing and VPIN- Top bottom bowing pincushion you'd be able to straighten the lines out alot more and get rid of those red lines. Just a guess tho! since when on my set if i cranked either one of those to a crazy bowing degree i would see red under all the scan lines. You comfortable with the service menu and trying anything out? BTW you don't have avia do you? not sure if your set has any built in test patterns you can use, but it probably does. If not you can always d/l a test pattern image off the PC and burn it to a disc. Do you have a digi cam so you can take a pic of the set while it's doing this?

I have went into the SM with some of Kentech's tweaks. The bowing you are talking of, does that actually make the image on screen bow? Because the problem I have, I have absolutely no bowing of images. It is only the red lines which actually seem superimposed on perfectly straight images.

But if this is the problem then great it sounds like they could be adjusted. Now the red background is only slightly noticeable with a show playing.

I have DVE.

Thanks

I think it can be adjusted man. Check this out. i just went into my service menu and had a test image up and adjusted VCEN and VPIN so everything was bowed crazy and out of whack. Is this what yours looks likes? see how the red lines creeped in?

I got up really close to the set tho so ignore those bottom shadow lines/reflections. See the red lines ontop of each line?

It is hard to see but yes I think that may be my problem. I also have a VPIN and VCEN adjustment. Do you know of a test pattern for me to input from DVE to adjust it to. Or should I just use a no input signal where I can clearly see the red lines. And adjust till I do not see them anymore.

Yea man sorry the pics came out so crappy but my cam sucks and i took them really fast, but you can see what i'm talking about. Hold up and i'll link you up to a 1080i test pattern i found that i been using.

It is hard to see but yes I think that may be my problem. I also have a VPIN and VCEN adjustment. Do you know of a test pattern for me to input from DVE to adjust it to. Or should I just use a no input signal where I can clearly see the red lines. And adjust till I do not see them anymore.

Oh wait i missed the you having DVE part! Not sure how they work compared to avia. I use Avia.,Well for 480p thats what i use since i'm using the regular xbox 360 dvd player. For other resolutions tho i use patterns i d/led off the internet or from here. Whats the DVE menus like? they have chapters labeled for like " geometry and convergence" any pattern with say white lines on a black background will work. You should be seeing the red lines coming through. let me know.

No go, I tried and all that does is distort the already straight geometry. The red lines do move, but they seem to be a part of the display from the guns. It is hard to describe. If you can tell me how to take a picture with my digital camera I can try and post it.

Thanks

Damn then leon. I have no clue. I thought that would help. Is the set old? or have you moved it recently? a "VIOLENT" move? I'm sorry i couldn't help. Before giving up any hope tho see if anybody else posts who has had the same problem.

I bought it earlier this year NIB. I was pretty lucky to find this set still in the box. As far as I know there has been no violent move.

I can live with what problem it has. But was hoping it could some how be taken care of. DVE does have a test pattern called anamorphic geometry that is a grid of white lines on black background with a circle in the middle and a smaller circle in each corner. On almost every test pattern with some black in it I can see the red lines, but on the anamorphic geometry I can not see them. Maybe that is because there are so many white lines and it makes seeing the red lines difficult. Either way if it can be fixed I will be happy if not I will still be happy and just live with it, as long as it does not get worse.

Thanks again
We tried

..... On almost every test pattern with some black in it I can see the red lines, but on the anamorphic geometry I can not see them. Maybe that is because there are so many white lines and it makes seeing the red lines difficult. Either way if it can be fixed I will be happy if not I will still be happy and just live with it, as long as it does not get worse.......Do the red lines go away if you reduce brightness(black level)? Have you adjusted correct black levels? Are blacks actually inky black, or grey?

If you can't lower the brightness control so that blacks are black, then this may be a G2 adjustment issue. I have a HS510, a few generations older than the current sets. I recently had my D board replaced and after powering up the set, the tech stated that he was looking for red lines with no input to determine if the board needed adjusting. I don't have my service manual copies with me now but the G2 and focus pots are on the flyback transformer and I believe the G2 pot is the top one. The tech stated that the flyback is supposed to be preadjusted but sometimes needs adjusting after installation. You will need to remove the rear cover of your set to access the flyback transformer, which is in the rear right corner with a high voltage lead connecting to the picture tube anode. Dangerous voltages are present, so BE VERY CAREFUL if you attempt this adjustment. You will find that both pots have a glob of white paint that marks their pre-adjustment so you can always go back to close to the original setting. NEVER make large adjustments on the G2, a LOT can go wrong. If your not comfortable with all of this then stay out of the set. Please validate the correct pot before attempting.

Good Luck

That sounds promising (G2 pot). It is something that I would have no problem attempting with the proper instructions. I bought an extended warranty with this set knowing that they are not made anymore. I may make a few calls to see if it is something the warranty would cover in house. I am not willing to let this set go to someone's shop and get beat on for god knows how long only to be told that sorry your TV is out of production we will have to replace it with a POS LCD or something comparable.

I think I have read about adjusting the G2 pot on this forum somewhere. But its been a while and I do not remember where I read it or even when. I will attempt a search to gain some education.

Thanks it's at least a direction.

...... I bought an extended warranty with this set knowing that they are not made anymore. I may make a few calls to see if it is something the warranty would cover in house.......The warranty coverage is your best bet. This should certainly be an in-home fix.

I tried all menu adjustments both extremes and the red lines do not change one bit.

LOL thats the dumbest thing i ever heard raouliii . YEA "blacklevel" is causing red lines on his set. Lets hide it with darkness like my tech did. Good fix! For people who don't care about quality on their TV set.