DVE, it has more test patterns and even more audio options as well to test your speaker system.

some global settings are SBRT, RYR-GYB and QPDC for focus.

My settings are a starting point, Its not going to be 100% perfect on yours cause every set is a little diffrent from the factory and also because you probably have diffrent equipment then me. There basically Settings that i have got from the various guides KenTech has posted and some calibrating on my end and also from me and SurfingMatt discussing settings. DVE wasn't a waste cause you need it to calibrate your DVD player. Your probably going to need to adjust overscan, Geometry and alot of other settings also and you will need alot of patterns on DVE.

You sound like you may not be up to all of this, It is alot of work and a learning process, Maybe you would be better off geting an ISF calibration from someone trained. Just another option.

nah its fine, im just slightly overwhelmed and frustrated.

irhxdffabc123rsvp-

A lot of us are with you. I have some interest in this image science, but I by no means enjoy the extra strain of balancing all of these tedious codes. A lot of this is just a means to an end, which is being able to enjoy dvds on a perfect image. I would prefer not to be here asking about service menu settings. Some of it is fun and interesting, and I'm glad I've learned a new skill. But it is VERY frustrating to get things correct, especially when one thing after another doesn't work. Once you do get things right, which you eventually will one way or another, the payoff is that much better.

One thing i've learned - if you get as ISF, make sure you are clear on how you need the image to look to your eyes. There is a compromise between what's "standard," and what is pleasing to your eye. My set looked great after calibration, and as good as it looked, it was still a little rough on my eyes. I've since been tweaking it to slightly improve things, and have succeded mostly. It's expensive to have these technicians come by your house, so it's good that we've been able to halp each other out, and also learn something new at the same time.

yea, im thankfull to nick for giving me his settings, and im sure it will be better than what i have now, i really would love to take a picture and show you guys the pools of black in these games... if its not better ill put it all back to the way it was.. tedius.. but.. oh well. was trying to use dve for my 360 but it ended up turning my brightness down double you tee eff, and my picture up as the contrast deal thing didnt work well, and i never seen any lines getting bigger, the color filter i have, is indeed purple unless purple changed to blue, and blue changed to purple, i have no eye problems of the such...

i will try nicks settings tonight, and let you guys know!

irhxcbcziuzxs,

I'm starting to think that maybe there is something wrong with your tv, becuase i never on these forums have heard someone have such a problem even at SBRT at 31 you say it's still too dark, now right there i can tell there is a problem because at that setting it should show everything.Can you return this tv, how long have you owned it for?

irhxcbcziuzxs,

Are you playing in a pitch black room? If you are see if you can put some type of light behind the tv. It helps alot.

irhxcbcziuzxs,

In the usermenu what is your brightness and contrast set to? Set them both to the middle, When you adjust SBRT and UBOF in the service menu your brightness slider should be in the middle.

I see you guys had to copy and paste his name as well huh LOL :D

I see you guys had to copy and paste his name as well huh LOL :D

Yep lol :)

I noticed on my XBR960 the left side of the screen is slightly darker and less focused vs. the rest of the screen , is there a service menu adjustment that might help this? Im familiar with navigating through the menu & making adjustments.. Just not sure what to try here.

I took this shot with my digicam which shows the symptoms , notice in the area where it says "Deliver the Amulet" the white backround gradualy turns grey on the left side of the screen, also the text gradualy loses focus on the left. Any ideas appreciated.

http://ded.zenblue.net/xbr960_leftside.jpg

Well crt's don't generally have a uniform brightness.So this could be a reason to consider.

Theres nothing you can really do since it's inherant to CRT technology.

not too long, im still under sony warranty...
sbrt is at 31, unless it didnt save, but im sure it did
and then after that i did dve in my 360, my brightness got brought down to 27 and picture went up to 40.. on the sliders...
i am not in a pitch black room i have two lamps in the room.... (i know part of the problem is glare)

as soon as i can, before changing my settings im going to take a picture of these things i speak of...

I have an issue with my kv-30hs420. I was playing some FPSs (Doom 3) on the xbox last night and the whites would blur (make trails) when I moved real fast. It never did that on any other tv I had. I thought I might have had the picture (contrast) up to high, but turning it down did nothing. Is there anything to tweak for this issue? Also on the top left side of the screen the horizontal lines seem to bend slightly downward, yet the bottom left seems straight as can be. Thanks in advance for any help.

To other Sony KD-36XS955 owners out there, including KenTech,
I would also see what your "tweaked out" service menu settings are as well.
Please share them.
Thanks!

I would like to second that request. I suppose I could go through the entire 43 page thread, but most of the settings have "evolved" over time. Therefore if I do go back and review the entire thread it will probably have to done backwards in order to get the most recent settings first.

I recently read that if one adjust the overscan just to the edges of the sony kd-34xbr960, that it will give distortion...like a fun house mirror when the picture scans. Has anyone heard of this?

With the 34xbr 960, what shoud the dimensions of the 4:3 display be? I have adjusted the geometry and when a 4:3 picture is displayed I am not sure if it is the right size.

Thanks

Disregard.

??

I wasn't referring to your post. Sorry for the confusion.

Well crt's don't generally have a uniform brightness.So this could be a reason to consider.

Theres nothing you can really do since it's inherant to CRT technology.

Hrm well my original XBR960 didnt do this so I figured something needs to be adjusted on this one..

Surely KenTech has some ideas? :)

depends on the tv mathestar, some have it.. some don't.

Hrm well my original XBR960 didnt do this so I figured something needs to be adjusted on this one.There is a lot of variation from tube to tube, and mere mortals attach and align the deflection yoke, focus coils, and permanent magnets. So, sure, the finished TVs vary even more.

First the CRT sets all have a "hot" center area, and there's nothing that can be done. Sony could have compensated completely for it but didn't.

However, the picture you posted looks like a beam-landing problem to me, and you should try fixing it. It's one of the first things I did to my own set.

Read the article here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7174280&&#post7174280).

If no amount of adjustment fixes a really dark patch at the center-left, you have a cause, I believe, to call out a service tech for a service-warranty adjustment. That is, if *they* can even fix it. If the deflection yoke is mismounted to the CRT, that will be a tough one, since a service tech might be afraid to touch it. You might suggest that it's a "purity" problem, and it might require repositioning of the yoke. But good luck! It may be fixable by you in SM in a jiffy.

Put up a uniform 50-75% gray or similar screen to see the real extent of the problem. A somewhat hot center is normal. A dark patch only at left-center is not. Use that screen to make your adjustments. The AVIA and DVE DVDs have suitable patterns available.

BTW, do you have a loudspeaker or other possible magnetic source at the left of the screen? An unshielded speaker too close to the screen can do this.

To other Sony KD-36XS955 owners out there, including KenTech,
I would also see what your "tweaked out" service menu settings are as well.
Please share them.I would be pleased to do this, but I have to explain: Some of these settings will do you no good. In particular, the settings for beam landing, geometry, dynamic focus, and dynamic convergence are really peculiar to each TV, as these are the adjustments that compensate for manufacturing variations, etc. The best starting point is frequently the default settings listed in the service-data charts.

Further, recommendations for anything having to do with brightness, white color temperature, grayscale accuracy, etc. can only be approximate, too. TVs vary somewhat, as you can see from reading recent posts on the 2170P-1SBRT, _CUT, and _DRV parameters.

On the matter of color decoding, the settings for 2170P-4: RYR, RYB, GYR, GYB tend to agree for common DVD players and the standard calibration disks. I like 14-14-6-4 for *zero* red push and minimum exaggerated blues. And that's way different from Sony's original settings! Others have tried and liked 13-15-5-3. You have to do it with *your* TV and a calibration disk, but I believe 14-14-6-4 would get very close.

On the matter of image processing, the fine-pitch TVs are likely very much alike, and so posting values for the 2170P-3, 2103-1, and MID5 parameters makes sense. They may even be useful for the HS510 and HS420 sets, but I have no exprience with these.

So should I post (again) the image-processing stuff? What would you like to see?

I assumed the fact that geometry settings are unique to each set. I was most interested in the image-processing stuff, not so much to copy them value for value, but to compare them with my current settings to get an idea of what direction to go when trying to optimize my particular settings.

Kentech, it goes without saying (but I'll try anyway) that your work on these service codes has been nothing short of phenomenal. I share your belief that non-professional people can figure this stuff out if we work at it hard enough. You have worked unbelievably hard and then some on this stuff and were also generous enough to take the time to share your findings with the rest of us.

Thanks for all your time and generous contributions to this forum, they are much appreciated!

Hi KenTech,
My KD-36XS955 has shown BIG improvements from your tweaks in the imaging processing areas. I have not started on the other areas yet.
I noticed that you changed certain settings quite alot since you started this thread.
Its so long that I just don't have time to read all the way through it.
What I and others would like to see is a quick run down summary of YOUR OWN PERSONAL latest [3-25-06] settings on your KD-36XS955.
I know these tv's do vary greatly and the values are only approximate, but it would still be very informative and interesting to read, especially in such areas as:
SBRT
RDRV
GDRV
BDRV
RCUT
GCUT
UBOF
GAMMA, GAMMS,GAMR,GAMG,GAMB
2103-1, 2170P-3, MID5 PERIMETERS.

On the last posts that I skimmed through last night, you had your CUTS at 43-21-24
SBRT at 29, and DRV values at 41-27-20, GAMMA at 0 in PRO, with GAMR-GAMB at 0-0-1, GAMMA at 1 in MOVIE with GAMR-GAMB at 3-3-4, etc., etc. Are these still accurate as of today?
Thanks a million, KenTech.

There is a lot of variation from tube to tube, and mere mortals attach and align the deflection yoke, focus coils, and permanent magnets. So, sure, the finished TVs vary even more.

First the CRT sets all have a "hot" center area, and there's nothing that can be done. Sony could have compensated completely for it but didn't.

However, the picture you posted looks like a beam-landing problem to me, and you should try fixing it. It's one of the first things I did to my own set.

Read the article here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7174280&&#post7174280).

If no amount of adjustment fixes a really dark patch at the center-left, you have a cause, I believe, to call out a service tech for a service-warranty adjustment. That is, if *they* can even fix it. If the deflection yoke is mismounted to the CRT, that will be a tough one, since a service tech might be afraid to touch it. You might suggest that it's a "purity" problem, and it might require repositioning of the yoke. But good luck! It may be fixable by you in SM in a jiffy.

Put up a uniform 50-75% gray or similar screen to see the real extent of the problem. A somewhat hot center is normal. A dark patch only at left-center is not. Use that screen to make your adjustments. The AVIA and DVE DVDs have suitable patterns available.

BTW, do you have a loudspeaker or other possible magnetic source at the left of the screen? An unshielded speaker too close to the screen can do this.

No unshielded speakers nearby, I tried doing the landing adjustments as described but I couldnt get it to make any differance, when looking at a solid gray screen you can see that the center is brightest and the corners and sides are all slightly darker but its alittle more noticable on the left side,same thing when looking at a Focus pattern ,center is the most focused but left and right are slightly off, with left side being worse.. would a Sony tech even consider these symptoms out of the normal range of operation, or should I just live with it?
Thanks for the replies.

Your just going to have to live with it, it's a CRT thing you know.

After a while once you get used to it you probably won't notice it.

BTW, I would really like to say thank you to Ken and everyone else who has contributed to this thread. It has been so very helpful. Again, thank you.

going to take the pictures now...

looking foward to it, it would make it easier for us to see what you are seeing as long as you have good lighting to take the picture and such.

Your just going to have to live with it, it's a CRT thing you know.

After a while once you get used to it you probably won't notice it.

Yea its not that bad really, Only noticable when playing games and actually looking for it, although I would like to get the geometry fixed in the corners sometime (bowing in all 4 corners).. I'll have to see if I can find an ISF around here.

Good luck!

Geometry should be fairly simple to do in the service menu, ask KenTech he should be able to help you out.

About geometry though on CRT's, you can make it acceptible, but it will never be perfect.

If this sounds familiar, I've asked about it once before in another thread. I still haven't gotten a guess as to what it might be.

On my TV--a 30xs955--I notice two vertical bars a few inches in from both the left and right sides of the screen. They are only really visible against a very bright image, and they appear as slightly brighter bars extending the entire height of the screen. What happens is, when text is scrolling across the screen or the camera pans, the picture seems to curve when it hits those two spots. It's like the entire image dips down and comes back up once it's past those bars. Does that make sense? What could cause something like this, and can it be fixed?

I'm discussing a 16:9 image here, and I believe these bars exist outside of the area of a 4:3 image. So, here's a possible clue: I still get the bars when watching 4:3 material, but they are now moved to within the 4:3 space in a position relative to where they are in a 16:9 image. Could this have something to do with the focus? I really don't even know what I'm talking about with that, so I probably shouldn't throw out guesses. I would like to know if this is something that can be dealt with.

Interestingly, my father has a Loewe CRT, and it has the same issue. So, you'll be helping two people if you can help me. :)

http://photobucket.com/albums/y158/irhxcbcziuzxs/TV/

ill leave you to sort through what pics are good and what arent
anyways...
thats with sbrt to 31

http://photobucket.com/albums/y158/irhxcbcziuzxs/TV/

ill leave you to sort through what pics are good and what arent
anyways...
thats with sbrt to 31

Hrm SBRT 31 seems high are you having to turn your TV's brightness below 31 to get good black levels?

A lot of the shots are blurred but the ones I can see look normal to me , You need to use a Torch to see through most of that area which is why the guard gives you one early in the game. If the TV were at fault I would think your health / status bar on the bottom would be dark as well, which it isnt. What do you have your TV's brightness set at? and did you try changing the in-game brightness setting?

I checked my SBRT yesterday and it was defaulted at 20, I changed it to 21 (after 21 I started to see the blacks turning gray) and also changed the default UBOF setting for Video 6 (Xbox360) from 1 to 2, with those settings I have my TV set at Brightness 31 , Picture 38 (Standard mode) and have Oblivions in game brightness turned up a few clicks above default and everything looks good, Oblivion is a dark game at times tho and I try to play with as little room lighting as possible during the day.

irhxcbcziuzxs,

Did you also adjust ubof in the service menu?

You should'nt have to adjust UBOF for that input though, the SBRT should take care of it.You only adjust UBOF to balance the rest of the inputs in black level, not the input you are calibrating.

Heck i'm still fiddling with an SBRT setting of either 28 or 29.

Anybody else using 28? KenTech have you tried 28? or do you prefur 29.just curious that's all since Nightwatchmen seems to prefur 28 and you 29 for an SBRT setting.

Matt~

http://photobucket.com/albums/y158/irhxcbcziuzxs/TV/?action=view&current=IMG_0004.jpg

see how the cars black blends in with the back ground, this was from page four
the pictures ive seen of oblivion are lighter than that.

i hear that people are having darkness problem with burnout however.. but i dont believe they are that bad.. not sure though

Your brightness is too low then since the car should stand out from the background not blend in with it.

Have you tried turning the ingame brightness in the game up?

maybe you guys can help me. i have read this thread and i still dont seem to get it much. you can see my original thread here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7374665#post7374665

so what exactly do i need to change? i am pretty computer savy which is why i am fustrated that i have a hard time understanding this

You should PM KenTech this info, you probably get more info that way on the exact items to adjust.

Matt~

http://photobucket.com/albums/y158/irhxcbcziuzxs/TV/?action=view&current=IMG_0004.jpg

see how the cars black blends in with the back ground, this was from page four
the pictures ive seen of oblivion are lighter than that.

i hear that people are having darkness problem with burnout however.. but i dont believe they are that bad.. not sure though

Hrm it doesn't look quite that dark on my TV but did your camera exaggerate the black crush any? (loss of detail in dark areas) Mine sure did at first ,I had to fiddle with the cameras manual settings in order to make the subtle dark blue highlights on the wall show up in my shots (I could easily see the blue in person), I also had to crank up my TV's brightness to 40 (burnout doesnt have it's own brightness adjustment) but luckily the black levels didn't suffer.

I tried the same test on my PC CRT (Sony FW900) with my 360 connected via VGA cable and the results were pretty close ,The FW900 does reveal more shadow detail but Im not sure if we can get our XBR960's to the same level in this area or not (without sacrificing black levels) , VGA is known to be brighter than component when it comes to Xbox360 so that might be the whole reason for the added detail.

IMO Burnout is just dark game at times, Period ..as well as other Xbox360 games,It seems like 360's Component output is tweaked for inherently brighter TV's such as LCDs. I havent noticed this problem with my other consoles (gamecube / ps2 / xbox 1)

I guess whats making matters worse is the fact Sony CRTs are known to crush blacks out of the box.

Heres a link to the pics: Click (http://ded.zenblue.net/XBR_FW900_Burnout_Blacklevels.html)

Could be you need to adjust the BLK setting in section 2170P-4 (it's right after the GAMM settings), it's hard to decide what to set this at. You can tell a big differenece in having it set to 1 as opposed to it being set at 3, I think at the least it should be at 1 to avoid the image looking washed out. I also have a 360 and Oblivion, also it depends on what scan mode you're playing the game in. 1080i seems to be a bit darker than 720p, so try playing around with that as well. Best bet is that your BLK setting is probably at 3, causing the black crush try lowering to 2 or 1.

What's your SBRT setting at? try 29 instead since it's a good compromise between shadow detail and black level.

Your brightness is too low then since the car should stand out from the background not blend in with it.

Have you tried turning the ingame brightness in the game up?

there is no in game brightness.

Hrm it doesn't look quite that dark on my TV but did your camera exaggerate the black crush any? (loss of detail in dark areas) Mine sure did at first ,I had to fiddle with the cameras manual settings in order to make the subtle dark blue highlights on the wall show up in my shots (I could easily see the blue in person), I also had to crank up my TV's brightness to 40 (burnout doesnt have it's own brightness adjustment) but luckily the black levels didn't suffer.

I tried the same test on my PC CRT (Sony FW900) with my 360 connected via VGA cable and the results were pretty close ,The FW900 does reveal more shadow detail but Im not sure if we can get our XBR960's to the same level in this area or not (without sacrificing black levels) , VGA is known to be brighter than component when it comes to Xbox360 so that might be the whole reason for the added detail.

IMO Burnout is just dark game at times, Period ..as well as other Xbox360 games,It seems like 360's Component output is tweaked for inherently brighter TV's such as LCDs. I havent noticed this problem with my other consoles (gamecube / ps2 / xbox 1)

I guess whats making matters worse is the fact Sony CRTs are known to crush blacks out of the box.

Heres a link to the pics: Click (http://ded.zenblue.net/XBR_FW900_Burnout_Blacklevels.html)

its close though, do you have parts on the map where you cant see anything at all? look through my other last few pages for more burnout pics, see back a page...
i dont believe the camera made it anyworse, its how it looks on my tv, my blacks seem darker than yours, but yours seem to crush as well.

What's your SBRT setting at? try 29 instead since it's a good compromise between shadow detail and black level.
SBRT is 31

I will second or third the request for a reprint of the common service menu items that can be tweaked.

I'm about to do my 34XS955. I've gone through this thread and written a lot down, but it's a jumbled mess. A nice clean post of values would be cool.

Maybe it's possible you have a bad set of component cables? It could be..you know it's not uncommon to have cables that are faulty right out of the box.

Why don't you buy another pair from a good place with a good return policy, and if you don't see an improvement then you can take the cables back and get a full refund.

what do you got to lose?

Also the game could be dark intentionatly, i'm not sure since i don't own an xbox360 yet but when i do i'll post pics too and compare it to yours and see if your tv really does have a problem.

BY REQUEST, A FEW CURRENT SETTINGS

I've decided to respond to this PM publicly, since some of these values might answer questions for other folks as well. Please heed my warning here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7373898&&#post7373898).
The settings I am most interested in are:
SHAP, SHFO, PREO, SSMD, PPHA = See posts #1137 and #1168. Some of these must be "tuned" for your TV.

YOF = as delivered. Recommend not tinkering with this.
CBOF = depends on input and video mode (see data chart).
Personal examples of YOF-CBOF-CROF:
1080i from tuner = 7-50-51. 720p from tuner = 7-51-52. 480i (digital) = 15-44-42.

SBRT = 29
RDRV = 43, GDRV = 28, BDRV = 23
RCUT = 46, GCUT = 21, BCUT = 18
The charts that make this easier to comprehend are in post #892. Further details are in post #896.

UBOF = Depends on input. I set all video modes the same. Ranges from 3 (a JVC VCR via S-video) to 5 (HD tuner). RF/480i is 4 (analog cable). 1 increment here = 2 or 3 clicks of SBRT.

SYSM = Not relevant without considering whole image-processig group of 2170P-3 and MID5. See post #1138 for personal examples.

VM SETTINGS = See post #1171.

RYR,RYB,GYR,GYB = 14-14-6-4. Good compromise among the different inputs, using both DVD calibration disks over V5 and the built-in test patterns.

GAMMA,GAMS,GAMR,GAMG,GAMB:
I have set gamma to max for all picture modes, except Movie, which I turn to when program material is too murky and dark for my tastes. The settings are:
GAMM = 0 for all inputs and picture modes, except Movie.
GAMM = 1 for Movie for all inputs.
Then, for GAMM = 0, GAMS,GAMR,GAMG,GAMB = 0-0-0-0
For GAMM = 1, GAMS,GAMR,GAMG,GAMB = 0-3-3-3
You can increase the gamma reduction for Movie (lightening mid-tones) by changing GAMR~GAMB to 4 or 5. Leave GAMS = 0. Remember that increasing GAMR~GAMB decreases display gamma, lightening mid-tones relative to black and white.

BLK = 0 for all picture modes and all video modes. This removes *all* automatic black-level and contrast manipulation by the TV. You could confine it to one picture mode, if you wish. I have no use for it for anything.

RELATED: With BLK set to 0, go to 2103-1 #24 and 25 (ATPD and DCTR), and set them to 0.

I hope this helps.

What's your SBRT setting at? try 29 instead since it's a good compromise between shadow detail and black level.This is only for *your* TV, Matt. There is no "correct" setting for SRBT. You can advise that someone "increase SBRT by a couple clicks" or similar, but specifying an exact number is pointless. There are many combinations of SBRT and _CUT that are all perfectly satisfactory. It's *changes* to these parameters that matter.

Could be you need to adjust the BLK setting in section 2170P-4 (it's right after the GAMM settings), it's hard to decide what to set this at. You can tell a big differenece in having it set to 1 as opposed to it being set at 3, I think at the least it should be at 1 to avoid the image looking washed out. I also have a 360 and Oblivion, also it depends on what scan mode you're playing the game in. 1080i seems to be a bit darker than 720p, so try playing around with that as well. Best bet is that your BLK setting is probably at 3, causing the black crush try lowering to 2 or 1.

anyone else reccomend this

Maybe it's possible you have a bad set of component cables? It could be..you know it's not uncommon to have cables that are faulty right out of the box.

Why don't you buy another pair from a good place with a good return policy, and if you don't see an improvement then you can take the cables back and get a full refund.

what do you got to lose?

Also the game could be dark intentionatly, i'm not sure since i don't own an xbox360 yet but when i do i'll post pics too and compare it to yours and see if your tv really does have a problem.

it is only on my xbox, tv.. ps2.. all fine. I think, maybe i just think they are ok.. im going to go through dve again.. i did it with sliders last time

This is only for *your* TV, Matt. There is no "correct" setting for SRBT. You can advise that someone "increase SBRT by a couple clicks" or similar, but specifying an exact number is pointless. There are many combinations of SBRT and _CUT that are all perfectly satisfactory. It's *changes* to these parameters that matter.

Thanks i settled on 29 last night, 28 seemed a bit on the darker side but 29 seems to be more better and pleasing to the eye, it really gives you that 3-D look and makes images POP off the screen.

Could be you need to adjust the BLK setting in section 2170P-4 (it's right after the GAMM settings), it's hard to decide what to set this at.At anything above 0, BLK enables automatic black level and/or automatic contrast ("Dynamic Picture"). BLK=0 disables it. In addiotion to that, with BLK set to 0, go to 2103-1 #24 and 25 (ATPD and DCTR), and set them also to 0. If you want black level and contrast to be solely under your control with the Brightness and Picture settings, set BLK to zero, as above.

I noticed recently that when I turn on my 30XS955, everthing is red for second or two, then corrects itself. It never did this before. Should I be worried that a problem is developing? Glitches like this worry me, especially since this set cannot be replaced (at least for much longer).

I noticed recently that when I turn on my 30XS955, everthing is red for second or two, then corrects itself. It never did this before.Are you sure it just started doing this? Whether you notice it will depend on what the program material is when it first comes on.

My set is completely weird for the first 2-3 seconds, too bright, blurry, high black level -- then it calms down and is perfectly watchable after a minute or so. A restart after 15-20 minutes guarantees a new warm "lock-in."

When the CRT's heaters first come on and the various control voltages haven't settled down yet, it's RGB anarchy! I presume it's okay after a few minutes, right?

At anything above 0, BLK enables automatic black level and/or automatic contrast ("Dynamic Picture"). BLK=0 disables it. In addiotion to that, with BLK set to 0, go to 2103-1 #24 and 25 (ATPD and DCTR), and set them also to 0. If you want black level and contrast to be solely under your control with the Brightness and Picture settings, set BLK to zero, as above.

I totally agree when it comes to different viewing material, but when it comes to gaming BLK at 0 can look washed out at times.

I totally agree when it comes to different viewing material, but when it comes to gaming BLK at 0 can look washed out at times.But then you can probably fix this in 2170P-3: UBOF for black level, UCOF for color intensity, and (if needed) UHOF for hue. A separate value will be stored for your gaming if it's a separate video mode from the others, and one value per picture mode, too.

Thank you KenTech!
You are the man!
This makes everything so much easier and up to date, without have to dig back through all those posts.
Great job!
Lanny

Here's a rather obvious (or maybe not so obvious) fix for black crush. Just drop the contrast down 5 or so clicks, or until the picture appears too dark. Then increase brightness by roughly the same number of clicks. DON'T do this in the service menu, just use one of the picture modes.

By doing this I was able to bring out a lot of detail in dark areas (like dark suits) that were previously getting crushed. It might be worth a try if some particular game is too dark to be playable.

And yeah, I know this messes up the proper black and white levels, and probably other settings as well. The picture appears "flatter" after you do this. But it does bring out more detail in dark areas where there was none before.

Are you sure it just started doing this? Whether you notice it will depend on what the program material is when it first comes on.

I'm sure it just started doing it. I have tried it with no programming connected, and it still does it.

My set is completely weird for the first 2-3 seconds, too bright, blurry, high black level -- then it calms down and is perfectly watchable after a minute or so. A restart after 15-20 minutes guarantees a new warm "lock-in."

When the CRT's heaters first come on and the various control voltages haven't settled down yet, it's RGB anarchy! I presume it's okay after a few minutes, right?

Actually, it's OK just after a second or two. It's almost as if there seems to be a delay for Green and Blue guns to come on....the red gun starts up a second or two before the others maybe??? Weird.

Ken,

I went through and gave your settings another look with my 57" RP CRT display. My ISF technician has already calibrated grayscale perfectly. However for color-decoding I changed over from 13-15-5-3 (what he thought was best) to 14-14-6-4. This is not what i officially calibrated it to, this was just a personal alternative to something so closely pinpointed to begin with. The latter settings resembles the colors of film the closest for me. Every film does have a different pallate i understand, but there is still that uniform balance of colors recognizeable in every color film.

Just to give you feedback on your sharp settings for my type of set: I went through and tried out your VM/Mide settings for my display, again. I have always been under the impression that minimum to zero mide/VM is best - leaving "sharpness" to do the job alone. Everything else just happens to match the other settings you (and others) have - PROV, LTMD etc. I leave black-level/grayscale alone, since the calibrator set all that perfectly, and I don't have the resources anyway to properly adjust all of those interrelated settings.

Getting things just right on a 57" screen (sitting 9 feet away) is more of a challenge since the screen takes up so much of your sight. Not only do you want the screen to look "right," but you need it to look right for your eyes as well (again, a very big screen).

480P is what I'm most interested in since that's what i mostly watch at this point. For my display, PREO, SHAP etc. are included in the 480P/component image. I'm not sure why, but i just assume that different displays have different outcomes. I set SHAP to either 0 or 1, leaving PREO and SHOF at zero (turning these on literally hurt my eyes).

For SYSM-2, I mimicked the "480i" settings you included Ken - including the exact MIDE column and VM settings. The results truly create an amazing picture, especially with the Froudja-chip/XP-30 I have. In my opinion the image rivals various plasma screens I have seen. I then tried this all out switching over to the SYSM-3 patterns, and as you've stated on many occassions, the difference is VERY subtle.

Again, the most important aspect on screens this large, to me, is getting the image at a comfortable level for you to see. But I imagine that getting sharpness "correct" without ringing/overshoot should mirror the above concern. Too much VM etc. not only doesn't look right, but also does a number on your eyes. But just the right amount (Ken's setting) seems to be just at the right level. My calibrator already did a hell of a job with the focus, as you can actually make out the scan lines the image is so tight.

He described how he set the brightness about a touch above a typical movie screen, as 2 x screen-width viewing distance calls for the need for a brighter screen. Gammas, in an effort to balance the grayscale were set on 1 and 3 for GAMG and GAMB respectively. But I digress....

My main focus (so to speak) is to make this display resemble an actual movie screen in its compatibility with vision. I think the main difference between theater/proj. screens and my display, is that my screen has a sweet spot - meaning the picture will be most intense/bright from the middle, as opposed to uniform all around. The image actually is much more comfortable to view when you're somewhat off of the sweet spot, but this really should not have to be like this. I leave contrast centered, as it really doesn't have much effect on the pictures overall intensity as you raise and lower it. Other settings seem to affect the image's overall intensity more so than contrast/picture. I understand "intensity" isn't a technical word, but it's all i have to describe how i perceive the image.

My display has been reviewed as a particularly good model. The image is one of the best I've seen for CRT. It is exceptionally clear, and VERY well-focused now. I would almost say that I find the image to be too clear. This is one of the reasons why such a clear and vibrant image has the potential to give your eyes such a workout, and it's been a challenge working with that.

Again, my black levels and color are set by ISF, and I don't plan on changing these. I seem to prefer the SYSM-2 more, and would need to use those accompanying values. I will experiment more with these. On first glance, it does look good, but it will need some getting used to. It seems that so many well-informed people here recomend that this is a good method for sharpness, that i should give them some belief. As long as true source details isn't being "covered up" then I think it's worth trying out more.

Napoleon, I appreciate the extensive feedback your whole message. Who knew that so much applicable to my direct-view set would apply to a rear-projection set?

My display has been reviewed as a particularly good model. The image is one of the best I've seen for CRT. It is exceptionally clear, and VERY well-focused now. I would almost say that I find the image to be too clear. This is one of the reasons why such a clear and vibrant image has the potential to give your eyes such a workout, and it's been a challenge working with that.I confess I don't quite understand this. The ultimate in clarity would be reality, and I don't think of that as a "challenge." When I look an amazing, well-broadcast picture, and I have the set properly adjusted for it, my eyes say that is approaching reality in its crdebility -- I can see fabric and skin texture, for example, not obvious in *lots* of broadcast program material and a goodly number of DVDs. My eyes like it indefinitely!

On the other hand, if I exaggerate sharpness, I find myself seduced into liking it for a short time, and then it looks false after a while. The word "scratchy" comes to mind. This works for a second-rate SD local-news program, say, viewed from far away, since it fools the eye into thinking it's almost right. But for really good program material, the "pleasures" of oversharpening are short-lived, and I go for more conservative settings.

This is why I have gravitated to the SYSM=3 settings I have listed: they seem, properly tuned, more realistic.

Please don't neglect the potential role of the MID5 filters, as they can accomplish things not possible with the Sharpness control and the settings in 2170P-3. Most notably, MHYE with values of 1-7 (with MHYL=3, MHYO=0) enhances only the very finest details and textures in HD and fine DVD sources, and you should consider watching a high-quality source while experimenting a bit. At some setting, you might find you achieve a "balance" with other available sharpness enhancements that is very symbiotic. Nothing else replaces the MHYE filter. (But if MHYO=1, its scope of action starts to creep downward into the video frequencies and coarser details also affected by other filters, such as 2170P-3/SHF0 and SYSM=2 + the Sharpness slider. Nonetheless, I find it indispensable for SD broadcast.)

But then you can probably fix this in 2170P-3: UBOF for black level, UCOF for color intensity, and (if needed) UHOF for hue. A separate value will be stored for your gaming if it's a separate video mode from the others, and one value per picture mode, too.

That does make sense, and I played a game of Oblivion last night with BLK at 0 and it looked pretty good. One question is what Gamma settings do you recommend? I was maxing all mine out by setting GAMM=3 GAMS=8 and GAMR, GAMG and GAMB at 15 (it was at default 12, but I noticed that when maxed out the images have more dimension it seems to me anyway), the reason I was maxing out was because I had set UBOF to 3 so it didn't look washed out. If I change UCOF and UHOF in the service menu, will I also have to readjust the color and hue settings in the user menu using the Avia and or DVE DVD?

Now that I have sat back and looked at it the BLK at 0 does make sense, I think it looked washed out before because I had UBOF maxed out at one time. If I do adjust the UCOF and UHOF how should I go about doing it?

Sorry if I am being a nusence, but I have a question. When I have a crosshatch pattern on my tv the vertical lines are close together in the middle and get further apart towards the sides.

I have pulled in as much of the over scan as possible. I just want to know if there is a way to expand the middle or something to even out the lines without losing any of the picture on the sides. Any help would be appreciated.

When I have a crosshatch pattern on my tv the vertical lines are close together in the middle and get further apart towards the sides. I have pulled in as much of the over scan as possible. I just want to know if there is a way to expand the middle or something to even out the lines without losing any of the picture on the sides.Yes. I recently corrected this problem for myself. Go into service mode, and adjust 2170D-2 #3, SLIN. You may have to touch up overscan and centering a little with HSIZ and HPOS.

One question is what Gamma settings do you recommend? I was maxing all mine out by setting GAMM=3 GAMS=8 and GAMR, GAMG and GAMB at 15 (it was at default 12, but I noticed that when maxed out the images have more dimension it seems to me anyway), the reason I was maxing out was because I had set UBOF to 3 so it didn't look washed out. If I change UCOF and UHOF in the service menu, will I also have to readjust the color and hue settings in the user menu using the Avia and or DVE DVD?See message #1302, above. Your "maxing out" of gamma is a bad idea, and it won't fix a "washed out" look the right way. It results in a way-screwy gamma on the screen (very low).

UBOF, UHOF, and UCOF *add* to the Brightness (black level), Hue, and Color settings in the user menu, but they can be set per video mode and picture mode. Leave the user-menu settings alone at your usual positions for normal TV viewing, and use UBOF, UHOF (probably not useful), and UCOF (more useful) to get the "look" you want when your user-menu settings are in their normal positions and you switch to gaming. Make sure that your gaming device isn't using one of the inputs also used by another device, or you will screw up the color for that device too. Example: You have a DVD player plugged into V5 (component) and your gamer plugged into V6 (also component). There's only *one* 2170P-3 settings for those two inputs together per picture mode (Vivid, Movie, etc.)

I don't use my TV for gaming, so I can't say anything more specific.

Wow, you tackled my problem with only 2 sentences. Amazing.

Like Emeril would say:..."BAM" :D

Does anyone have any High Definition test patterns for Black/White levels? I have DVE but can only calibrate at 480p.

Does anyone have any High Definition test patterns for Black/White levels? I have DVE but can only calibrate at 480p.You can use a HD broadcast that has dark content. Jay Leno/David Letterman, wearing a black/dark suit would work. Freeze the picture and adjust brightness up and down to see where the dark detail is best. Brightness up and you will see all the detail in the broadcast (some detail is missing from the source), reduce brightness till the darkest detail is just visible. This is best done using scenes with some bright areas in the picture too. If done with a low APL (very dark scene), you run the risk of setting brightness too low and loose some dark detail in higher APL scenes.

Does anyone have any High Definition test patterns for Black/White levels? I have DVE but can only calibrate at 480p.IF you are interested in going into service mode, there are excellent test patterns there. Glen's advice is just fine. If you want to be more wirehead about this, here is a partial repost of the original information from way earlier in this thread. There is a fine grayscale step-scale pattern, but its format may not be the best for judging deepest blacks. I'd go with Glen's advice.

***************
THis doesn't appear in any service manual I have seen. Enter service mode, and step *backwards* with the 5 key to see these groups. My 36XS955 has the service-menu group called "QM." It comes up in blue, not green, and AFAIK the values are never saved. Further, 0 - Enter reloads everything and kills the patterns, rather that your having to run the PATN count down to 0 before exiting. So does power-off.

Fair warning: Turn your sound down to zero before going for any patterns; a loud audio test tone is part of this. When you are showing one of the patterns, you lose ability to change picture modes and a couple of other things. Further, you have to return to QM/PATN and run the value back down to 0 to get the patterns to disappear. A bit tedious, but I'm not complaining about having built-in HD patterns!

#0 - INFO (values 0-7) has 7 screens of information about what is going on in the set. Nerds, rejoice!

#1 - PATN (values 0-80) has four groups of 12 patterns, both color and b/w, including a couple of amazing frequency sweeps, color bars, grayscale steps, crosshatch patterns, etc. Each pattern is at value 20*n + p, where n is 0-3 for the video-mode group (see below), and p is 1-12 for the pattern. (The remaining values are pure-white screens.) I used the top=blue, bottom=gray screen for adjusting the color intensity for the different video modes represented, especially HD.

The groups on my set are for 1080i, 480i, 480p, and 720p, in that order.

#2 - GPTN (values 0-12) are 11 different patterns of a decidedly different type on only the upper 70%of my screen, no matter the scan rate. Some are translucent. I don't know their specific purpose.

QM has more codes, but I haven't discovered anything about them yet.

The test patterns are inserted into the video channel *ahead* of all picture adjustments in 2170P-3 and MID5, so they can be used for evaluating these settings. I value the crosshatch patterns, but some of the others I will probably just look at for fun, as we don't know what pathway they take thru the long processing chain. I wonder what the sweep frequency extremes are for the #8 patterns in each group. Unfortunately the highest video frequencies are positioned at the right edge of the screen, where the horizintal focus is the worst!

See message #1302, above. Your "maxing out" of gamma is a bad idea, and it won't fix a "washed out" look the right way. It results in a way-screwy gamma on the screen (very low).

UBOF, UHOF, and UCOF *add* to the Brightness (black level), Hue, and Color settings in the user menu, but they can be set per video mode and picture mode. Leave the user-menu settings alone at your usual positions for normal TV viewing, and use UBOF, UHOF (probably not useful), and UCOF (more useful) to get the "look" you want when your user-menu settings are in their normal positions and you switch to gaming. Make sure that your gaming device isn't using one of the inputs also used by another device, or you will screw up the color for that device too. Example: You have a DVD player plugged into V5 (component) and your gamer plugged into V6 (also component). There's only *one* 2170P-3 settings for those two inputs together per picture mode (Vivid, Movie, etc.)

I don't use my TV for gaming, so I can't say anything more specific.

I think I get the jest of what you're saying, what should I set the gamma settings for then? Everything else you've suggested has worked pretty well :D . So if I understand correctly, adjusting the UCOF setting will not have a drastic effect as far as the color settings adjusted using the Avia DVD (in other words all the changes I made in the user menu to adjust for proper color, and the ones I made in the service menu to correct for any red push will not have to be corrected.) Am I understanding right? Or am I like way off in right field somewhere?

I have my Xbox 360 on V5 and my PS2 on V6 and I have a Toshiba DVD player on V7 (HDMI)

No unshielded speakers nearby, I tried doing the landing adjustments as described but I couldnt get it to make any differance, when looking at a solid gray screen you can see that the center is brightest and the corners and sides are all slightly darker but its alittle more noticable on the left side,same thing when looking at a Focus pattern ,center is the most focused but left and right are slightly off, with left side being worse.. would a Sony tech even consider these symptoms out of the normal range of operation, or should I just live with it?
Thanks for the replies.

I'm having the same issue as Mathesar, I first noticed it when I hooked up my PC to XBR with HDMI. The left side of the screen up to an inch inward is either slightly darker or blurry which causes text and windows to lose focus when moved to the side. I was reading about the LANDING adjustments but could this be caused by the HDMI cable or DVI adapter or is that not possible? It's weird because it's not really noticeable when watching HD or SD, but as soon as you go to PC HDMI it's there. Also, could this be input dependent or is it safe to assume all video inputs exhibit this behavior. Thanks for any response.

So, ok.. before i try nick's settings..
the only thing i want to fix is the black crush...
sbrt = 31

sliders
----
picture = 40
brightness 25

i got those from using dve, the picture one is probably not right.. because the picture setting, no matter where i had it i didnt see any of the so called lines moving, didnt see what they wanted me to see for there sharpness settings either so

sharpness = min
mode = pro
color = 31
hue = 0
color temp = neutral
clearedge vm = off

Can someone explain in better detail how to do this dve thing, as apparently im not getting it, is it because i did the dve with the sliders? should that make a difference
am i getting black crush because my ubof is set to 3 (default?).... you all seen my pictures... I got out of the first dungeon, and i really should go back and take pictures of the sewers, even with my torch i couldnt see 5 feen in front of me there....
outside, i wandered and.. it was coming on night time in oblivion, and again.. i needed a torch to see.... i know this isnt right...
something is wrong...

I think going with nicks settings would help, but i only want to fix the darkness problems at the moment, then tackle other things so id be changing alot of settings for no reason for me right now, cause im happy with everything else.. movies look fine, tv looks fine , (yes, movies on my 360, so it wouldnt be a componant cable problem i dont think)

also wanted to mention in those pictures, the in game brightness was almost to the top
haha, this is a good one, i put brightness to the center , in game brightness, not too much of a diff , but some... and then i was wondering around not being able to see where im going, and then... it became night, and i have a pitch black screen, so i up my torch.. and basically still a pitch black screen :-D just the glow of my torch not ligthing up anything but less than stuff a foot away
there for, my game is unplayable... hoorah...
sorry, didnt mean to make that into 3 seperate posts

...Can someone explain in better detail how to do this dve thing,...
Go to this link - it has a short course for both Avia and DVE:

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/Video-calibration.html#avia

i moved up the brightness in game to where i could sorta see at night, now during the day everything is washed out, ridiculous

So, ok.. before i try nick's settings..
the only thing i want to fix is the black crush...
sbrt = 31

sliders
----
picture = 40
brightness 25

i got those from using dve, the picture one is probably not right.. because the picture setting, no matter where i had it i didnt see any of the so called lines moving, didnt see what they wanted me to see for there sharpness settings either so

sharpness = min
mode = pro
color = 31
hue = 0
color temp = neutral
clearedge vm = off

Can someone explain in better detail how to do this dve thing, as apparently im not getting it, is it because i did the dve with the sliders? should that make a difference
am i getting black crush because my ubof is set to 3 (default?).... you all seen my pictures... I got out of the first dungeon, and i really should go back and take pictures of the sewers, even with my torch i couldnt see 5 feen in front of me there....
outside, i wandered and.. it was coming on night time in oblivion, and again.. i needed a torch to see.... i know this isnt right...
something is wrong...

I think going with nicks settings would help, but i only want to fix the darkness problems at the moment, then tackle other things so id be changing alot of settings for no reason for me right now, cause im happy with everything else.. movies look fine, tv looks fine , (yes, movies on my 360, so it wouldnt be a componant cable problem i dont think)

also wanted to mention in those pictures, the in game brightness was almost to the top
haha, this is a good one, i put brightness to the center , in game brightness, not too much of a diff , but some... and then i was wondering around not being able to see where im going, and then... it became night, and i have a pitch black screen, so i up my torch.. and basically still a pitch black screen :-D just the glow of my torch not ligthing up anything but less than stuff a foot away
there for, my game is unplayable... hoorah...
sorry, didnt mean to make that into 3 seperate posts

First thing you should do for gaming purposes (or atleast from what I have experienced) is to leave the picture and brightness settings right at the middle at around 31 or 32 (the default for Pro mode is 32). SBRT sounds about right I have mine set at 28, and UBOF at 3 and UCOF at 5 (the reason I have UCOF set so high is because I have BLK set at 0 and I also lowered my color slider in the user menu using the Avia DVD). I know what KenTech said about the GAMM setting, but in my humble opinion; as far as gaming goes; I have GAMM set at 3 GAMS at 8 and GAMR GAMG GAMB all at 12 (lowered from 15 where I originally had them, back to the default level of 12).

Also for gaming purposes you are best served having Clearedge VM set at high (note I said for gaming purposes, because of the fact that in gaming you want edge enhancement it makes the images appear even more crisp and 3Dish while gaming). I also have the temp set at cool (that's a personal preference). Give some of what I said a try, especially the VM thing. Those settings should make your game look a lot better, it did for me at least.

Oh yeah almost forgot, this is in Pro mode just incase you were wondering.

I really don't understand your posts irhxcbcziuzxs, With those settings you have it should'nt be dark at all,Though may i make a suggestion....Turn SBRT to 29 instead it will get rid of that washed out look.

Also i'm beginning to think that the game is dark intentionaly,bear in mind i don't own an xbox360 yet so i can't really go in to detail but by the looks of it, it looks the game maybe dark intentionally to give the game a certain look.Or maybe you got a bad copy of the game?

having a pitch black screen at night normal? no. having a pitch black screen at night with a torch normal. no. not being able to see where im going on some burnout maps normal... maybe. I should have only clicked up the brightness in game like two notches, but i am now 2 notches from the top..i play in a pitch black room at night now too

I really don't understand your posts irhxcbcziuzxs, With those settings you have it should'nt be dark at all,Though may i make a suggestion....Turn SBRT to 29 instead it will get rid of that washed out look.

Also i'm beginning to think that the game is dark intentionaly,bear in mind i don't own an xbox360 yet so i can't really go in to detail but by the looks of it, it looks the game maybe dark intentionally to give the game a certain look.Or maybe you got a bad copy of the game?

Most of the 360 games are just naturally dark on CRT monitors, because the developers mostly used LCD screens when testing and developing the game. LCD screens have a higher natural contrast and brightness ratio than CRTs, hence the games looking dark on the CRT. For instance if you were to have possibly played Perfect Dark Zero, you might have noticed that in the options menu of that game where you can change the brightness there is another option asking what kind of screen you are using. It has LCD, DLP, Plasma, and CRT and whenever you select a different screen type the in-game brightness bar automatically (you can also do it manually) recalibrates itself for whatever screen setting you set it to.

irhxcbcziuzxs, you should really read my post above it might help to solve your problem cause from what you're saying I think your BLK in 2107P-4 is set at 3 which would explain why it is so dark. Below is what I would try if I were you:

Picture = 40 (put this up a bit so you won't have to overcompensate with the gamma settings like I have been)
Brightness = 31

2170P-1
SBRT = 28* (anywhere from 28 to 31 is pretty good)

2170P-3
UBOF = 3* (anywhere between 3 and 5 should be fine)
UCOF = 5 ( to make up for the BLK setting being at 0 so the game won't look washed out, anywhere between 3 and 5 is good here also I personally like 5)

2170P-4
BLK = 0
GAMM = 2* (I think this is a good compromise between 1 and 3, and I'm happy with how my games look)

I edited this cause I had to go back and change a few things that were bothering me about my gameplay, I lowered SBRT to 28 and UBOF to 3 because whenever there was text on a black background you could see a line in which the text was on strectching across the whole screen, meaning my black level was not right. I changed GAMM to 2 because GAMM = 1 just did not make the images jump out enough and GAMM = 3 even though I liked it tended to make things too bright. I might go back to GAMM = 3 but for now I will try 2. Once again these settings are in pro mode and are set for my gaming needs.

having a pitch black screen at night normal? no. having a pitch black screen at night with a torch normal. no. not being able to see where im going on some burnout maps normal... maybe. I should have only clicked up the brightness in game like two notches, but i am now 2 notches from the top..i play in a pitch black room at night now too

I'm gonna tell you the truth, if the game is that dark and your BLK setting is at 0 (which you might have already done) then you need to up the GAMM setting. I know that KenTech said the GAMM setting being maxed out was a bad idea, but he also said he was not a gamer so no disrespect intended (Lord knows your posts in this thread have helped me very much) but if you're a gamer you want this setting maxed (maybe not all the way up to 15 for the GAMR GAMG and GAMB settings, but by atleast setting GAMM to 3 where the default levels would be 12 instead of 15). I've tried every GAMM setting and I feel the most comfortable with GAMM = 3, give it a try and you'll see what I mean. If that doesn't make the in-game lighting better then next check the UBOF setting and see if it needs to be raised a bit.

as i was going through my video channels, the green lettering for the service menu was alot brighter on every other video input... odd
anyways.. heres what i just changed

sbrt = 31
ubof = 3
ucof = 5
gamm = 2

the defaults on the tv for all of those were
sbrt = 22
ubof = 2
ucof = 0
gamm = 0
blk = 0

sigh, didnt help...
it seems like everything ive done has only helped with colors
i walked into a building in oblivion and had half of a black screen

sigh, didnt help...
it seems like everything ive done has only helped with colors
i walked into a building in oblivion and had half of a black screen

Are you using pro mode? Cause I have just started to realize that gaming is a lot brighter and vivid in ironically enough vivid mode, just use the same settings there and bump GAMM up to 3 (*edit nevermind it is already defaulted at 3, just make sure to move BLK to 0). You also might have to come up on the UBOF a couple levels if you're still having trouble. Or maybe for you set (since no two TVs seem to be the same) the SBRT level needs to be higher. Let me know what happens cause I really want to help you be able to truly enjoy the splender that is Oblivion.

sigh, didnt help...
it seems like everything ive done has only helped with colors
i walked into a building in oblivion and had half of a black screen

Forgive me for asking but just in case.. You do know you have to make these service menu adjustments with the Xbox360 powered on right? Otherwise it will only be changing the settings for 480 mode. (other than SBRT which is global).

Last time I made adjustments I did it at night using Oblivion while my character was standing in a semi dark cave (but not pitch black), Any adjustments I made were immediately noticeable even just going from SBRT 21 to 22 ,I guess what I'm saying is you should be able to fix your problem by making adjustments in a dark area of the game. Ive been using 720P lately as it seems to be slightly brighter by default and the sharpness seems 'just right' with Clearedge VM set on Low, I would normaly steer clear of VM but have to admit it doesn't look bad with 720p & videogames (on Low at least).

I also use Standard mode , Pro mode is just to dark and lacks the needed contrast for video games IMO. I havent tried VIVID mode as suggested by Romeo.

as i was going through my video channels, the green lettering for the service menu was alot brighter on every other video input...



That to me suggests that there is nothing inherently wrong with your TV, least of all the electron guns. I have a gut feeling if you guys persevere we can get your black levels and brightness spot on for the appropriate channel.

Now if I can just grab your name....:)

I presume you've plugged your XBOX360 into another CRT monitor to see if the console itself is not to blame??

Forgive me for asking but just in case.. You do know you have to make these service menu adjustments with the Xbox360 powered on right? Otherwise it will only be changing the settings for 480 mode. (other than SBRT which is global).

Last time I made adjustments I did it at night using Oblivion while my character was standing in a semi dark cave (but not pitch black), Any adjustments I made were immediately noticeable even just going from SBRT 21 to 22 ,I guess what I'm saying is you should be able to fix your problem by making adjustments in a dark area of the game. Ive been using 720P lately as it seems to be slightly brighter by default and the sharpness seems 'just right' with Clearedge VM set on Low, I would normaly steer clear of VM but have to admit it doesn't look bad with 720p & videogames (on Low at least).

I also use Standard mode , Pro mode is just to dark and lacks the needed contrast for video games IMO. I havent tried VIVID mode as suggested by Romeo.

You might be on to something here, I never even took that possibility into mind. The only thing I will disagree with you on is the VM thing (I too once hated the idea of setting mine to high, I even tried to make myself think it looked terrible). In my opinion it looks better on high when it comes to gaming, but it did take a while for my eyes to accept it. I do respect your opinion on it though.

Forgive me for asking but just in case.. You do know you have to make these service menu adjustments with the Xbox360 powered on right? Otherwise it will only be changing the settings for 480 mode. (other than SBRT which is global).

Last time I made adjustments I did it at night using Oblivion while my character was standing in a semi dark cave (but not pitch black), Any adjustments I made were immediately noticeable even just going from SBRT 21 to 22 ,I guess what I'm saying is you should be able to fix your problem by making adjustments in a dark area of the game. Ive been using 720P lately as it seems to be slightly brighter by default and the sharpness seems 'just right' with Clearedge VM set on Low, I would normaly steer clear of VM but have to admit it doesn't look bad with 720p & videogames (on Low at least).

I also use Standard mode , Pro mode is just to dark and lacks the needed contrast for video games IMO. I havent tried VIVID mode as suggested by Romeo.

if this is true, well.. then, i guess i have to power on my 360

Yep, everything is unchanged in 1080i, except for SBRT
here is where everything is at. These are all defaults for 1080i

1080i
----------

2170P-1 - 31 SBRT
2170P-3 - 1 UBOF
2170P-3 - 0 UCOF
2170P-4 - 0 BLK
2170P-4 - 0 GAMM

i have not plugged my crt into another monitor because i dont have one
my name is
"its tasty bacon" on live if that is what you are refering to

I presume u mean u haven't plugged ur XBOX 360 into another CRT monitor?

Worth a try. Maybe the XBOX console itself is pumping out the signal dark???

Yep, everything is unchanged in 1080i, except for SBRT
here is where everything is at. These are all defaults for 1080i

1080i
----------

2170P-1 - 31 SBRT
2170P-3 - 1 UBOF
2170P-3 - 0 UCOF
2170P-4 - 0 BLK
2170P-4 - 0 GAMM

i have not plugged my crt into another monitor because i dont have one
my name is
"its tasty bacon" on live if that is what you are refering to


UBOF = 3-5
UCOF = 3-5
GAMM = 2-3

Presto, problem solved! :D Or atleast it should be.

I presume u mean u haven't plugged ur XBOX 360 into another CRT monitor?

Worth a try. Maybe the XBOX console itself is pumping out the signal dark???

I think if he raises the values everything will be fine, cause I think he was setting it without the Xbox 360 turned on. If that's not the problem then I highly doubt that the system itself would be pumping out a dark signal (highly unlikely but not totally impossible), if anything it would be a problem with the video cords themselves not the system.

i have what you have it set to on the 480 and am unsatisfied with the picture, my blacks are gray, and therefore things look washed out..
might it do the same to the 1080i?


and i have not plugged it into a crt monitor, please read above where i said that :-)

i have what you have it set to on the 480 and am unsatisfied with the picture, my blacks are gray, and therefore things look washed out..
might it do the same to the 1080i?


and i have not plugged it into a crt monitor, please read above where i said that :-)

It will look a lot better at 720p or 1080i, trust me. The brightness settings between the input my 360 is connected to and the one my PS2 is connected to are totally different. If it looks washed out did you try moving UCOF up a couple clicks, helped fix my problem with the quickness.

p.s. I almost forgot to mention this, anytime you have a gaming system running 420 more than likely you're better served leaving UBOF at 1 or even 0 that's why your blacks are gray.

You do know UCOF is for color right?

You do know UCOF is for color right?

Yeah, he needs to raise that up to fix the washed out look. He was using Pro mode and that mode has a supreme lack of color when it comes to gaming, however it is pretty close to perfect according to the Avia or DVE DVDs. I was telling him to raise that so he wouldn't have to change the sliders everytime he went from playing a game to watching TV.

Lack of color in PRO mode???

Never heard that one before but i guess i can make this case an exception.;) Turning up color does not fix the image it just blurs the image because of color bleeding and you lose detail in clothing etc.

buty i can understand your comment on not worrying about raising color each time he uses another source so yeah, the service menu option UCOF would bea good idea.As for setting color in particular though,personally i would'nt set it any higher than the middle,i have mine at 27 which is 4 clicks from the middle.Looks great!! Too much color is'nt too pleasing to the eyes,but since color is basically set to prefurence,set to what ever way makes it look good to you.

Lack of color in PRO mode???

Never heard that one before but i guess i can make this case an exception.;) Turning up color does not fix the image it just blurs the image because of color bleeding and you lose detail in clothing etc.

buty i can understand your comment on not worrying about raising color each time he uses another source so yeah, the service menu option UCOF would bea good idea.As for setting color in particular though,personally i would'nt set it any higher than the middle,i have mine at 27 which is 4 clicks from the middle.Looks great!! Too much color is'nt too pleasing to the eyes,but since color is basically set to prefurence,set to what ever way makes it look good to you.

I'm refering to gaming purposes, not everyday watching purposes. I have a really good eye when it comes to color in video games, and Pro mode is no where near where it should be for that purpose. That's why I now use Vivid (with some tweaks of course) for my gaming needs, and Pro for watching TV. Mine is about around 27 as well, but video games (especially the Xbox 360) rely on really vibrant colors and by turning up UCOF all that is really doing is making up for the lack of color detail that is taken away by setting BLK to 0. When BLK is set at 0 the images are brighter, but it also takes away the natural shades from colors as well meaning you have to compensate. None of this applies to regular TV or DVDs in any way at all, it just mainly applies to video games.

Ok i get you now;)

Cool, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't confusing anybody. All the tweaks I talk about are for people who play video games, if the same tweaks were to be made to regular TV or DVD I'm pretty sure the results would be rather nasty.

When I try to download the XBR960 Service Data PDF from the first post on the first page, anyone know why at the end of the download I get a message saying "Cannot Copy File: Cannot read from the source file or disk"? Then it just aborts the download.

^^
Nevermind it seemed to be an IE issue, it worked with Firefox.

When I try to download the XBR960 Service Data PDF from the first post on the first page, anyone know why at the end of the download I get a message saying "Cannot Copy File: Cannot read from the source file or disk"? Then it just aborts the download.

yeah I think the amended pdf can be found in post #11 of The Sony Service Codes

VIvid is bad because it is bad for the TV, not necesarrily because people dont like it...
anyways...

all my other channels are fine, my ps2 is fine on video 6
my movies seem ok on my 360, but they arent running on 1080i
HDTV channels seem to be fine though too....

VIvid is bad because it is bad for the TV, not necesarrily because people dont like it...
anyways...

all my other channels are fine, my ps2 is fine on video 6
my movies seem ok on my 360, but they arent running on 1080i
HDTV channels seem to be fine though too....

No, Vivid is not bad if set correctly. The only way Vivid can harm your TV is if you leave the Picture setting jacked up all the way. Vivid is what you want for gaming, the little added things in Vivid that people hate to see in their HDTV programming or DVDs is exactly what you want to see in video games. It's all a matter of preference though either way you look at it, whatever looks good to you is good enough.

Vivid is what you want for gaming, the little added things in Vivid that people hate to see in their HDTV programming or DVDs is exactly what you want to see in video games. It's all a matter of preference though either way you look at it, whatever looks good to you is good enough.I recently worked on setting up my cousin's several year old 34XBR800 and his new SA8300, so that he could finally step into the HD world on the HD-capable set he'd purchased several years ago.

The TV is in his family room which has lots and lots of floor-to-ceiling picture windows, allowing in lots of broad daylight during daylight hours. And the TV screen pretty much faces these windows. So it turns out that this makes watching in PRO mode essentially impossible during the day, as the picture is just so dark that you can only barely make out any picture on the screen. Since he likes to watch CNN (SD, obviously) when he's having breakfast in this room, going into VIVID was quite simply the only solution to the problem. I agreed with him. Of course this is a special situation, and I pleaded with him not to keep it this way for night viewing when the room was dark.

Obviously, my tweaks on his setup were done at night, in a dark room, for matching the expected recommended viewing environment for HD and DVD content. I've made him promise me (on pain of death) that he will not watch HD/DVD content while still in VIVID but will go back to my PRO settings at night.

VIVID definitely has its uses, when appropriate.

I recently worked on setting up my cousin's several year old 34XBR800 and his new SA8300, so that he could finally step into the HD world on the HD-capable set he'd purchased several years ago.

The TV is in his family room which has lots and lots of floor-to-ceiling picture windows, allowing in lots of broad daylight during daylight hours. And the TV screen pretty much faces these windows. So it turns out that this makes watching in PRO mode essentially impossible during the day, as the picture is just so dark that you can only barely make out any picture on the screen. Since he likes to watch CNN (SD, obviously) when he's having breakfast in this room, going into VIVID was quite simply the only solution to the problem. I agreed with him. Of course this is a special situation, and I pleaded with him not to keep it this way for night viewing when the room was dark.

Obviously, my tweaks on his setup were done at night, in a dark room, for matching the expected recommended viewing environment for HD and DVD content. I've made him promise me (on pain of death) that he will not watch HD/DVD content while still in VIVID but will go back to my PRO settings at night.

VIVID definitely has its uses, when appropriate.

Once again I will say that I am saying only to use Vivid while gaming, at no other time do I use it. The image that Vivid provides with the right tweaks (and picture and brightness sliders at 31 clicks which is the middle) is unbelievable while gaming, it looks terrible for anything else though. I use pro mode for regular TV watching and Movie mode (tweaked) for DVDs, and Vivid for my PS2 and Xbox 360.

Anyone know if its possible to fix or at least adjust some of the geometry errors im seeing on my XBR960, Straight lines going across the screen tend to bend downward in the upper left & right corners and bend upward in the lower corners, the lower right corner is the worst .I took this pic and you can defiantely see the upward bend in the lower right, It's not bugging me that bad but would be nice if I could at least improve it.

http://ded.zenblue.net/geometry.jpg

Mathesar, one word...magnets. I corrected most of it on my 955, do a search for my thread on horizontal distortion. For the fearless and it may still not remove completely but you will see an improvement if you decide to (*gulp*) stick your hand back there. It isn't easy as there is a lot of trail and error so if you're not a patient person, it may not be in your best interest to try it.

Anyone know if its possible to fix or at least adjust some of the geometry errors im seeing on my XBR960, Straight lines going across the screen tend to bend downward in the upper left & right corners and bend upward in the lower corners, the lower right corner is the worst .I took this pic and you can defiantely see the upward bend in the lower right, It's not bugging me that bad but would be nice if I could at least improve it.

http://ded.zenblue.net/geometry.jpg

Seems as though your picture is at least brighter now.

I received my second 960N today. The first, from ABT, arrived damaged and is waiting to go back. This one I picked up from FRY's. It's new, not a demo, and I was pleased to find it. I have an adjustment question. I have been studying this forum for awhile but I am unsure exactly where to go in the service menu to correct this problem. My set is brighter in the center than at the left and right edges. These edges are a bit bluer than the rest of the screen and then become slightly pink as they transition to the bright center. All of this is quite subtle with the pink being just detectable (I don't think it is an optical illusion caused by the adjacent blue). It is only apparent with extremely light material. I tried the adjustments in the landing section of the service menu but they had no effect. I don't know if what I see is just a limitation of this CRT technology or something which could be ameliorated by fine tuning. Has anyone experienced this?

Mathesar, one word...magnets. I corrected most of it on my 955, do a search for my thread on horizontal distortion.So how about giving us a reference to your thread!

Mathesar, one word...magnets. I corrected most of it on my 955, do a search for my thread on horizontal distortion.
So how about giving us a reference to your thread!

Here it is.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=651619

Anyone know if its possible to fix or at least adjust some of the geometry errors im seeing on my XBR960, Straight lines going across the screen tend to bend downward in the upper left & right corners and bend upward in the lower corners, the lower right corner is the worst .I took this pic and you can defiantely see the upward bend in the lower right, It's not bugging me that bad but would be nice if I could at least improve it.

http://ded.zenblue.net/geometry.jpg


Your just going to have to live with it,geometry will never be perfect on the corners on a crt.

I have a question for KenTech,

Did you use a refferance to adjust your CUTS and DRV's for black level and color temperature?IF so what would you prefur or what equipment did you use?

Would copying your CUTS and DRV settings do fine on my 34hs420?I mean...i used your other settings and they looked ok to me such as SBRT at 29, RYR-14,RYB-14,GYR-6,GYB-4

I trust your eyes since we both have come up with simialr results in the past few weeks,so i'm pretty confident that what works with your set will work with mine.

So i take it your color temp with those CUTS and DRV are pretty close to D6500k?Is it anywhere close to perfection?

Mathesar, one word...magnets. I corrected most of it on my 955, do a search for my thread on horizontal distortion. For the fearless and it may still not remove completely but you will see an improvement if you decide to (*gulp*) stick your hand back there. It isn't easy as there is a lot of trail and error so if you're not a patient person, it may not be in your best interest to try it.

Thanks I read through your 'barrel distortion' thread and that is indeed whats going on with mine, Im just not sure what type of magnets to buy , you mentioned the 1/2" diameter magnet you tried was a bit strong?

Seems as though your picture is at least brighter now.

Yea Im very happy with Xbox360's picture quality now ,My problem was trying to get Pro mode looking good with video games .. Standard mode and some minor UBOF / SBRT adjustments did the trick ,also using a Low VM setting gave it a nice boost in overall "crispness" especially with text which you see a lot of in Oblivion.

Your just going to have to live with it,geometry will never be perfect on the corners on a crt.

Well it looks like using magnets may help,I may try improving the lower right corner with this method. You would be very surprised how good the geometry is on my 24" FW900 CRT pc monitor ..its literally near perfect with no corner bowing or bends at all.

one word...magnets. I corrected most of it on my 955, do a search for my thread on horizontal distortion. For the fearless and it may still not remove completely but you will see an improvement if you decide to (*gulp*) stick your hand back there. It isn't easy as there is a lot of trail and error so if you're not a patient person, it may not be in your best interest to try it.I think you are right about everything, and I haven't tried it myself yet. I had a service guy come out for a vertical convergence problem (horizontal lines), and he fixed that in a jiffy with the rotating magnets on the neck of the tube. When I asked him about the curvature in the corners and a slight bluish patch left of center, he reminded me of something I already believed: that you can get very screwed around with magnets. You adjust convergence/curvature in one place, and it goes out somewhere else. Deflection of the beam to straighten out those corners may conflict with vertical convergence for the same area, and so you may get the geometry right but have more color fringing on horizontal white lines. I say "may" because I don't have personal experience yet. (I do with computer monitors.)

I know there is a cluster of stick-on magnets on my tube just behind where the bluish patch is. Is it the cause or an attempt at a fix, I don't know? I'm motivated to find out. For now I'm ignoring it.

The service tech, in response to my request, didn't hesitate to give me a couple of "official" magnet assemblies. Each is a plastic base with self-stick tape, plus two independent magnets that can be (a) rotated to cancel or reinforce each other in strength, and (b) together rotated in any orientation. Haven't used them yet.

You might consider that *two* similar magnets stuck together might help you lessen the affect of a too-strong single magnet. Further, you have to consider whether the magnet's poles should be perpendicular to the tube, parallel to it, or somewhere in-between.

You can purchase at an Office-Depot-type store a flexible, rubbery, clay-like adhesive that you can mold into any shape. (Usually blue or white, maybe called "artists adhesive" or "type cleaner." Not a wax!) It doesn't deteriorate significantly with age and is great for adhering magnets to CRTs or nearby plastic in almost any position. Double-stick foam, by comparison, really limits your positioning ability and is hard to reposition without destruction.

Ken
I've pulled apart 2 XBR960's that were made in Japan and there were none of these so-called "landing" magnets on the tube.

If memory serves me right the US xbr960's were made either in Mexico or USA.

Is it possible that these tube magnets, if removed could ameliorate your bluish patch just left off centre?.

No harm in trying once each magnet is "referenced" with Liquid paper prior to removal
Will

Is it possible that these tube magnets, if removed could ameliorate your bluish patch just left off centre?. No harm in trying once each magnet is "referenced" with Liquid paper prior to removal.It is most certainly possible, and I intend to try! I have no reservations about numbering the magnets, outlining them on the tube, then removing them. They might all have been put there by an inexperienced setup technician.

Another example: The horizontal-trapezoid correction was way off (HTPZ), and was originally conpensated by another geometry setting being off in the other direction! Correcting HTPZ to <none>, I was able to improve geometry by correcting the competing settings to more-reasonable values. So much for intellligent assembly-line procedures!

It's just that dealing with this monster and its subwoofer draped intimately over the tube, to modify the magnets, all while looking into a large mirror at a test pattern, is like trying to get up the enthusiasm to do your own brake job!

Anyone know if its possible to fix or at least adjust some of the geometry errors im seeing on my XBR960, Straight lines going across the screen tend to bend downward in the upper left & right corners and bend upward in the lower corners, the lower right corner is the worst .I took this pic and you can defiantely see the upward bend in the lower right, It's not bugging me that bad but would be nice if I could at least improve it.

http://ded.zenblue.net/geometry.jpg

You could try VCEN if you haven't already. It helped me reduce mine.

Not that I would do this myself (though others might), but convergence and corner geometry/linearity adjustments should use "convergence correction" magnets affixed to various places on the back of the picture tube. This was done to my XBR960 by a qualified Sony authorized service technician who was called to try and correct the usual convergence/bowing anomalies that many new sets exhibit. The resulting improvements were genuinely dramatic, but this guy really knew his stuff and spent about 2 hours (over 2 separate visits) getting things right.

The magnets are sort of square (perhaps 1/2" square) affixed to the end of what looks like a piece of Scotch tape. Once positioned properly the tape is pressed down to make the magnet stick to where you want it.

Looking at the XBR960 service manual (fold-out page 142), this is item #63, Sony part number 4-051-734-21 ("PIECE B(120), CONV CORRECT"). It should be available from Sony parts sources, or maybe its substitute 4-051-734-41. Price is about $1.33 each.

Again... proper fooling around in the back of the set (and its very high voltage) is not for the untrained. But these magnets are the solution.

Thanks I read through your 'barrel distortion' thread and that is indeed whats going on with mine, Im just not sure what type of magnets to buy , you mentioned the 1/2" diameter magnet you tried was a bit strong?


Yes, the 1/2" dia. magnets were purchased at a local Radio Shack. I still haven't tracked down the appropriate magnets to use yet. Been watching too much tv. :D

Not that I would do this myself (though others might), but convergence and corner geometry/linearity adjustments should use "convergence correction" magnets affixed to various places on the back of the picture tube. This was done to my XBR960 by a qualified Sony authorized service technician who was called to try and correct the usual convergence/bowing anomalies that many new sets exhibit. The resulting improvements were genuinely dramatic, but this guy really knew his stuff and spent about 2 hours (over 2 separate visits) getting things right.

The magnets are sort of square (perhaps 1/2" square) affixed to the end of what looks like a piece of Scotch tape. Once positioned properly the tape is pressed down to make the magnet stick to where you want it.

Looking at the XBR960 service manual (fold-out page 142), this is item #63, Sony part number 4-051-734-21 ("PIECE B(120), CONV CORRECT"). It should be available from Sony parts sources, or maybe its substitute 4-051-734-41. Price is about $1.33 each.

Again... proper fooling around in the back of the set (and its very high voltage) is not for the untrained. But these magnets are the solution.

Thanks for the item number, I may call up Sony for these magnets. You're right, about the high voltage, just be very very careful not to touch anything. :) BTW, I spent hours adjusting, moving, turning the magnets to see the effect on the screen. Also, if anyone is interested, one can easily just point a flashlight through the top and sides of the tv to see the clusters of magnets around the tube.

i switched the componant cables to a different video, and it didnt help... because of the lack of adjustments on that video, the colors were awesome, but the black problem persisted... I decided to walk into EB today, and get them to put a copy of burn out in, and HEY, i could see, i dont know if i should sell the TV or not. I dont know what to do anymore.. the game was playing in 1080i

Thanks for the item number, I may call up Sony for these magnets. I have the name and phone number of an electronics parts place in Santa Clarita CA that for sure has six of these magnets in stock, if you can't get them from Sony (although I don't know why they wouldn't be able or willing to sell them to you). PM me if you need the details. That's how I got the price of $1.33 each.

There are also probably other non-Sony places around the country that sell Sony parts at good prices, where these magnets can also be obtained.

i switched the componant cables to a different video, and it didnt help... because of the lack of adjustments on that video, the colors were awesome, but the black problem persisted... I decided to walk into EB today, and get them to put a copy of burn out in, and HEY, i could see, i dont know if i should sell the TV or not. I dont know what to do anymore.. the game was playing in 1080i
This set where you could see, it was different than your current set?

I've been watching your posts since January, and if memory serves, I don't think you've ever been real happy with this tv, correct? Hasn't the problem been that the display is just too dark for your gaming?

Maybe you should consider another tv. Get something that'll make you happy and will make your gameplaying enjoyable.

im new to this and this has been a very helpful site, i just got a dve and ive been trying to calibrate my tv, i have a sony kv32hs510 i have been looking for guides but havent gotten far, some of the info seems to help but the tvs are different. i also dont have any external devices to see if im in db6550 so for right now im in neutral. i need help can someone help me or point me into a direction on a link that has my service manual info?

easy question. Whenever I adjust picture placement/overscan for HD it's affecting my 480i picture. Is there anyway to adjust them seperately? This is for an HS. My HD source is on Video 6 input. And I use Wide Zoom when watching SDTV.

I found someone who had the same problem with the 360 and the same tv

he changed his settings to

2170-P
sbrt - 40 was 24
gdrv - 21 was 23
bdrv - 27 was 25

2170-D
qpam - 36 was 22
qpdv - 63 was 55
df - 0 was 34
dqp - 32 was 30

and i guess now everything is fine... i might have to try that

This set where you could see, it was different than your current set?

I've been watching your posts since January, and if memory serves, I don't think you've ever been real happy with this tv, correct? Hasn't the problem been that the display is just too dark for your gaming?

Maybe you should consider another tv. Get something that'll make you happy and will make your gameplaying enjoyable.

Yes, that is the ONLY problem, things are too dark when gaming, and only on my 360.. well things in 1080i, everything else seems great I had things i thought were wrong but werent with the tv but were right... id love the tv to death if i could fix this one problem

\that and horizontal lines going across my screen when there is something fast moving, ive seen it in cartooons, shows, and my 360 dashboard when i press the middle circle button

I found someone who had the same problem with the 360 and the same tv

he changed his settings to

2170-P
sbrt - 40 was 24
gdrv - 21 was 23
bdrv - 27 was 25

2170-D
qpam - 36 was 22
qpdc - 63 was 55
df - 0 was 34
dqp - 32 was 30

and i guess now everything is fine... i might have to try that

Fixed....

I second what Justsc said, you should get another tv and look else where since you seem to not be satisfied with your sony. Maybe an LCD would be a better choice no?

Fixed....

I second what Justsc said, you should get another tv and look else where since you seem to not be satisfied with your sony. Maybe an LCD would be a better choice no?

like i said, i love my sony, but for some reason the games are unplayable on it.. and i have a problem with horizontal , left to right lines on fast moving objects, what do you think of those settings i posted

(also, theres no way i could get the amount i paid for this tv now)

Fiddle with SBRT and QPDC i would leave the others alone.

why, what are the others?
and is it ok to have sbrt that high

I would'nt touch too much SM items since ithen you will start to screw up other inputs,etc.

That's why i only said fiddle with those two settings because out of the box these sony's are pretty good PQ wise.You don't really have to do too much to them to make them great besides tone down the edge enhancements a bit and get rid of the black crush and redpush,but other than that these sony tv's are really good out of the box.

As for your question on that SBRT setting,yes that is pretty high,personally i would'nt go any higher than 31 myself.I have mine at 29 and no black crush here!

then i dont know what to do to fix this

You mean your black level?Well just raise UBOF for your xbox360 on that input pretty high then maybe you could see something.

colors are great just lots of black crush, pitch black where there should be shadows?
so do the ubof? whats a good number

Surfing matt do you agree with bolo's old posts

colors are great just lots of black crush, pitch black where there should be shadows?
so do the ubof? whats a good number

Have you tried making adjustments while the Xbox360 is on? Get to a semi-dark area in Oblivion and make the adjustments so that you can see the changes taking place, Thats what I did.

but im not exactly sure how it should look

but im not exactly sure how it should look


Ok then if that's the case then just look at the overall image and adjust untill you can visibly see things then stop when things start to get grey,that's when you know you have gone too far because then the image get's a smokey look and loses it's sense of contrast ratio.

ok ill do this, should i only mess with the settings bolo recomended

ok ill do this, should i only mess with the settings bolo recomended

The settings I tweaked were all settings that in my opinion needed to be addressed. The results may vary for you, it also depends a little on which video mode you're using and which scan mode. The settings for 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i shouldn't all be the same.

SO, like heres the plan
Tomb Raider, Legends and NBA live 06 for 360 demos have greyscales, in game... in 1080i , so im going to adjust it according to those
now to do this , i just need to know what settings to mess with

sliders?
service menu for contrast and brightness? or others?
what?

are you serious?

The info was already mentioned to you a few pages back..it's SBRT and UBOF to balance the other inputs.Leave brightness and contrast at the center when adjusting SBRT.

Now here is what you do,i'll make this simple and clear....

1: Leave the contrast and brightness in the middle

2: Adjust SBRT in the service menu leaving UBOF at 0 for the input your using,example..Component input 5.

3:Once that is set then you can adjust UBOF for the other inputs to balance black level,you might not need to use it since SBRT may do the trick but i don't own your tv or know what is connected to it so it's your decision where to set it.

4: Enjoy the show, your all done!:)

if i only mess with SBRT
to barely see the second darkest bar, like it says
SBRT is at 37-38


i also noticed
that both video inputs, 5 and 6, they both have osmething plugged into them, the green lettering of the service menu is dark on both of them and all other inputs are fine...

Your adjusting SBRT for the component inputs right? When you adjusted your SBRT it was for your dvd player at 480p correct?

i adjusted SBRT while xbox had a demo on at 1080i
top of my screen right now says

2170P-1 7 37 Service
SBRT HD-FULL Video5
WSL: #'s 1080i

Have you tried anything else on the component inputs were they dark as well or fine?What i mean is..have you tried another device on that input like a dvd player or another game console is it still Dark?

the green letterings on both video 5 and 6 are darker than any other video setting
ps2 is on 6, xbox is on 5... I have nothing else to run on this input, nothing else runs in 1080i that i have.
So SBRT is at 37 im about to do another greyscale...
It might have to be a little higher...
Things look kinda washed out now though, but i can see in oblivion now, sorta.. its getting there.. same with burnout, but its still kinda persistant in burn out

2170P-1 - 37 - SBRT
2170P-3 - 2 UBOF
2170P-4 - 0 BLK
2170P-3 - 0 UCOF
2170P-4 - 0 GAMM

So when you play a PS2 game is it dark on the component input as well?

Also when you were calibrating SBRT for the 360 UBOF should be at 0. UBOF is a brightness offset,it's purpose is to balance the rest of the inputs in black level incase you see an inbalance.

the green letterings on both video 5 and 6 are darker than any other video setting
ps2 is on 6, xbox is on 5... I have nothing else to run on this input, nothing else runs in 1080i that i have.
So SBRT is at 37 im about to do another greyscale...
It might have to be a little higher...
Things look kinda washed out now though, but i can see in oblivion now, sorta.. its getting there.. same with burnout, but its still kinda persistant in burn out

2170P-1 - 37 - SBRT
2170P-3 - 2 UBOF
2170P-4 - 0 BLK
2170P-3 - 0 UCOF
2170P-4 - 0 GAMM


Try GAMM = 1 and UCOF = anywhere from 1-5 depending on the video game system and scan mode, that should take away the washed out look. SBRT seems kinda high, but no two tvs are exactly alike.

Also I almost forgot to mention the best approach for setting SBRT or UBOF (in my experiences at least) is to use a black screen with some kind of text on it from the system (i.e. the Playstation 2 startup screen where is says Playstation 2). The text is on a line or a box if you will, which emits a different level of black than the background black making it appear gray all the way across the screen wherever the text is located. This is something you are not supposed to be able to see, so basically use that as a way of setting up for your gaming needs.

I'm coming to the conclusion (not a lot of people agree with me on this, but I believe it to be true) that you can leave UBOF at 0 or 1 or whatever it's default setting is, and set SBRT to the right level. Then you turn up GAMM to 3 and all should be good.

So when you play a PS2 game is it dark on the component input as well?

Also when you were calibrating SBRT for the 360 UBOF should be at 0. UBOF is a brightness offset,it's purpose is to balance the rest of the inputs in black level incase you see an inbalance.

my ubof is 2 by default though, but ok
i had to turn sbrt up to 40 today to see in GRAW

my ubof is 2 by default though, but ok
i had to turn sbrt up to 40 today to see in GRAW

You need to turn up your GAMM, give it a shot and you will see the difference.

Try GAMM = 1 and UCOF = anywhere from 1-5 depending on the video game system and scan mode, that should take away the washed out look. SBRT seems kinda high, but no two tvs are exactly alike.

Also I almost forgot to mention the best approach for setting SBRT or UBOF (in my experiences at least) is to use a black screen with some kind of text on it from the system (i.e. the Playstation 2 startup screen where is says Playstation 2). The text is on a line or a box if you will, which emits a different level of black than the background black making it appear gray all the way across the screen wherever the text is located. This is something you are not supposed to be able to see, so basically use that as a way of setting up for your gaming needs.

I'm coming to the conclusion (not a lot of people agree with me on this, but I believe it to be true) that you can leave UBOF at 0 or 1 or whatever it's default setting is, and set SBRT to the right level. Then you turn up GAMM to 3 and all should be good.

Seems about right Bolo, not sure about GAMM though since at 0 it should already be at Maximum Gamma,but then again these super fine pitch sony's tend to have a slightly darker picture than the hs420 series like the one i won so i guess that by you raising that setting it should work.

Seems about right Bolo, not sure about GAMM though since at 0 it should already be at Maximum Gamma,but then again these super fine pitch sony's tend to have a slightly darker picture than the hs420 series like the one i won so i guess that by you raising that setting it should work.

I have a 30HS420, and it's really hard to get a good viewing level for the 360 games without setting GAMM to a high level. If you set SBRT or UBOF too high it will wash out the blacks, and I don't really feel like raising the Contrast/Picture setting in the user menu.

I've been hearing several of the same issues and i think it has nothing to do with your tv, i think it's just the xbox360 itself.Apparently the designers must have had LCD in mind when making their games to a certain picture level.So naturaly xbox360 is darker on a CRT perhaps?

I can't comment for myself since i don't own one yet,but as for my cousin and his 34" sony 34xs955 he just simply turns the brightness higher when playing the xbox360 and has no issues.It could be the game as well, it could be dark intentionalyy to give it a sort of mood.

My settings are SBRT 29 and UBOF at 0 for the rest of the inputs,when i get my 360 someday i will coment and see if i am seeing the same issues you guys are seeing.

What's your SBRT set at? try 29 itg seems to be the best setting IMO while still achieving good blacks.

I've been hearing several of the same issues and i think it has nothing to do with your tv, i think it's just the xbox360 itself.Apparently the designers must have had LCD in mind when making their games to a certain picture level.So naturaly xbox360 is darker on a CRT perhaps?

I can't comment for myself since i don't own one yet,but as for my cousin and his 34" sony 34xs955 he just simply turns the brightness higher when playing the xbox360 and has no issues.It could be the game as well, it could be dark intentionalyy to give it a sort of mood.

My settings are SBRT 29 and UBOF at 0 for the rest of the inputs,when i get my 360 someday i will coment and see if i am seeing the same issues you guys are seeing.

What's your SBRT set at? try 29 itg seems to be the best setting IMO while still achieving good blacks.

Yes, I actually commented on this issue a few posts back somewhere. When the Xbox 360's software (games) were being developed, the developers and testers were using mostly LCD's. The 360 is indeed naturally darker on CRTs, but that's not too big of a problem to fix.

I thinking about actually lowering SBRT (29 right now) a little and raising UBOF (0 for PS2 and 3 for 360 at this point in time) and trying to use GAMM at 1, but 3 makes a lot more sense to me. Sooner or later I will stumble onto the perfect settings, it's just trial and error right now. I might end up going back to pro mode and see if I can't find a better way to utilize it for gaming.

im actually noticing some black crush on HD TV progs in 1080i though too, a black shirt where you can hardly see the wrinkles or blends in with a black background

im actually noticing some black crush on HD TV progs in 1080i though too, a black shirt where you can hardly see the wrinkles or blends in with a black background


It's still dark even at those high settings of SBRT at 37?

If that is true then i think there is a problem with your sony's component inputs because this sin't normal especially if you have to set SBRT that high,you really should'nt have to go any higher than 31 to see details in dark areas.

It's either that or there is a problem with your xbox360,try using someone elses on your tv and see if there is a difference in black level.

Just got my kd30xs-933, the pq is awesome, even though I don't have a hd receiver. My one concern is that at times my picture looks like it is being pushed in at the middle, almost a concave effect. Its most apparent when Im looking at dish networks program guide, especially in the normal screen setting. Is this a convergence issue, or just something I don't have set right. I've fiddled with the tilt level, ect. to no avail. Has anyone else with this set experienced this or know how to adjust it?

It's still dark even at those high settings of SBRT at 37?

If that is true then i think there is a problem with your sony's component inputs because this sin't normal especially if you have to set SBRT that high,you really should'nt have to go any higher than 31 to see details in dark areas.

It's either that or there is a problem with your xbox360,try using someone elses on your tv and see if there is a difference in black level.

it shouldnt have anything to do with component inputs when i just said I noticed some black crush on a TV channel...

much to my dismay i reset my tv to the original factory settings thinking to correct and undo a few things. i thought that was the setting to which it was when i purchased it, boy was i wrong. i have sat thru and has gone over the service menu countless times, and have set my convergence, focus, and color settings to that i like, but its only for 480i, when trying to view something in 480p, 720p and 1080i all i get is a weird signal that resembles that of what is beings sent to my tv via rf signal, everything is hooked up the same as it was, but my inputs are now(f....d!)my tv type is a sony kv32hs510, im looking for proper id values thinking that maybe 1 or a few are off, like 1d 7, so if theres anyone out there that has those values or may know what could be a solution ( value that i could set in the service manual ) please help. I have gotten this far as to resetting all of my values i just need those few left, and a few finer tweaks that i can do myself after i can get the appropriate signals to be sent to my tv and my tube will be perfect( in my eyes at least)

I also have an xbox 360 on a sony tv kd-36xs955 and it is missing the top and bottoms of many games. Again back to a previous comment maybe made with LCD in mind. I thought I would be smart and mess with overscan settings DHPH, DVPH, MDHS and MDVS to get it in focus I got the high def in focus great then my standard TV and PS2 and other devices were all out of wack. So I thought I set back to my defaults I wrote down and for some reason the screen is stretch vertically. Im worried maybe I wrote a default down for one mode and it wasnt same on all.. ugh. So now Im forced to make adjustments again. Out of town right now figured I would join this site do some posts see what I could come up with as far as help. I saw info for 34" sony widescreen tv and I downloaded it and made a spreadsheet to use when I get home.

I saw a post at beginning of thread for kd-36xs955 default settings from kentech. It wont download gets to end says it cant read. Does anyone have good copy of the kd-36xs955 default settings so I can match with what I have. Even a doc with all the definitions of these settings would be nice.

Thanks

Sorry if this is wandering off the subject. I am just responding to something from a couple of pages ago.

Ken-

Regarding the color decoding you discussed, I had my ISF calibrator (Chad Billheimer) return to do some tweaking last night. He is VERY skilled, and had previously adjusted my focus and convergence amazingly tight! I ran your color-decoding settings by him. Months ago we had initially set all inputs to 13-15-5-3 for RYR through GYB respectively. I liked this, even though I felt it gave the colors a bit of garishness to them (which is less realistic). With this is mind, the calibrator also found that the color slider should be up by about 1 more tick from where we previously had it. With the colors already being a bit gaudy, I felt this would be wrong. But rather than doubting that, I doubted the color decoding pattern. So we looked back at those values. He tried re-calibrating the colors using several different test discs. Using all of them to calibrate, 14-14-6-4 indeed got us the closest, which was a bit closer than 13-15-5-3. In reality, some of the ideal color decoding settings are more towards the middle of 2 numbers, but the closest combinations of all of them seemed to be that 14-14-6-4 pattern. It also looks the most accurate as well, which makes a lot of sense. And naturally, it is also the most realistic looking. This allowed the color to feasibly slide up a notch to its correct level and still look appropriate.

Good call on that one Ken!

He worked mostly on my 480p/component with the XP-30 player. Regarding SYSM-2 versus SYSM-3 – I personally prefer SYSM-2. As you have said, both combinations can get you to similar destinations. I asked the calibrator to redo the sharpness using SYSM-2 as a value. I had no mides or VM’s activated at the time. According to the patterns I had on my 57” RP/CRT, he approved the zero mide use (mide-63) and VM’s turned off. Part of this was due to my personally preference, but he also felt it wasn’t needed quite as much with SYSM being set at 2. That being said, he did take a look at MHLY and MHLC, and felt zero was the best for the colors. He didn’t look at MHYL or MHCL as closely, but still felt that the MIDE-63 looked the best with the color/sharp patterns. Keep in mind I’m a filter for translating this info. since he’s a pro and I’m not. But this is roughly what he was saying. Also, my screen is 57" and VM's personally never were easy to handle on a screen that large.

I swore SHAP and PREO had effect on 480P material. I swore that lowering SHAP to zero took away the coarsness with 480p material. I saw it happen with a few dvd’s over 480p. He did not see any change to Avia sharp patterns while manipulating SHAP in 480p, and felt the menu was not active for this resolution. I think the change is so subtle it was hard to notice, but I swear there is interaction going on. Otherwise I would not have bothered changing SHAP to zero.

As for sharpness, I am left with SYSM-2 and the sharpness slider. The result is a VERY film-like picture. The XP-30 puts out a great picture as it is. The sharp-slider is at 22 ticks. I feel this is a bit low, even though it did well with the sharp pattern on Avia. Question: What is the appropriate sharpness level for this? I want to say it should be somewhere between 24 and 30. One of you found a good level, but I can’t seem to track it down. My calibrator set it very well, I feel it could use a couple ticks more, and I was curious what you typically used.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you some positive feedback with your spot-on color decoding Ken!

Another question - the "Axis" value in the color service menu - is this merely a value that points to different color dedocing patterns, in the same way that different "Mide" values point to different mide collumns? I have entered in the exact same color decoding values for Axis - 1 and Axis - 0, and switched the two back and forth, and there is no change. I want to say that axis affects nothing else but color decoding values. If this is true, this means that you can mix up the color decoding values for a few inputs, to avoid having to compromise by using one color pattern for all inputs. Color decoding is global for each axis value, but the assigned axis value for each input is not global. For weeks i had the same colors for all inputs but the coax/antenna, and it was because axis was different for only that input.

I'd just keep sharpness in the middle personaly that way it balances out for other content like VHS,cable tv,etc.

My Vocal Coach is going to be on Conan O Brian Tomarrow, ill check for black crush then, cause i seen it during saturday night live, i was playing oblivion and it seems like the tv had reset the sbrt , but it hadnt...
Im going to have a professional callibrator come out if i cant fix this, or also have sony come out

New to forum not sure if I'm posting correctly. :)

I will be installing a new CRT in my KD-30XS955 in a few days so I will have an opportunity to put the memory stick patterns to the test.

I have found that Sony has some bad quality control on their CRT's having changed manufacturing plants 3 times in less than 3 years. I have two of these sets. The one manufactured in 1984 had an American made CRT. The one manufactured in 1985 had a Japanese made CRT (with loose aperture grill) & from what I'm reading the next CRT's will likely be manufactured in China. The American made tube has developed a G1-2 to K short that acts up after the set is warm.

I do have some nice test equipment & used to do television repair. My pattern generator is nice but not really for HDTV. I did put a pattern on with my generator & compared it to the test pattern that KenTech provided for memory stick use. I found that pattern tracked very close with my pattern generator as they both showed the convergence being off in the same area.

I have looked at the video waveforms with a digital storage oscilloscope.

I have replaced many picture tubes in my day but this will be my first HDTV tube replacement.

I'm planning to change the cabinet to gloss black while I have everything torn down.

My pattern generator is nice but not really for HDTV. I did put a pattern on with my generator & compared it to the test pattern that KenTech provided for memory stick use. I found that pattern tracked very close with my pattern generator as they both showed the convergence being off in the same area.Don't forget that there are internal test patterns for 1080i, 720p, and 480p. Absent anything else, the HD patterns can be used for fairly precise calibration, although they're not very sophisticated.

HELP ME! I went into the blue QM and QT info & test pattern section in the service menu and did some adjustments to the vertical and horizontal perimeters in D-1 and D-2 while on a test pattern.
I NOW CANNOT EXIT THIS SECTION!
I have tried turning the tv on and off several times, tried unplugging it, etc., and it goes back to this same test pattern and the loud test tone everytime I turn the tv back on!
What do I do to exit this screen and test tone and return the tv to normal operation.
I am very worried.
Please help. :(

Daltonlanny,

I've had that happen before a couple of times(even if you turn set off and back on outside of SM), even when I didn't "write" the QM PATN value for the test pattern I was looking at ---In my case here's what worked to fix it ..... For instance --- If one of the QM "PATN" test patterns are "stuck" on screen, try going to QM "PATN=0" and then writing the "0" value(which turns the test patterns off).

HELP ME! I went into the blue QM and QT info & test pattern section in the service menu and did some adjustments to the vertical and horizontal perimeters in D-1 and D-2 while on a test pattern.
I NOW CANNOT EXIT THIS SECTION!I apologize for not discussing this in my recent posting on the internal test patterns. Happened to me, too.

If you WRITE your new settings while using a test pattern, you have also accidentally written that test pattern! That's incredibly stupid on Sony's part: PATN should have been a *temporary* setting, as are several other test parameters. But it isn't.

As Nitewatchman said, the solution is to go into service mode, turn any pattern off, and WRITE that. So go to PATN, reduce its value to zero (which brings back the picture), and WRITE.

By now you have also discovered that one should also turn down the audio while using the test patterns, preferebly to zero!

Don't forget that there are internal test patterns for 1080i, 720p, and 480p. Absent anything else, the HD patterns can be used for fairly precise calibration, although they're not very sophisticated.This is true, however I have seen that the external sources can be quite different. i have calibrated the TV color decoder with a HD signal generator, then input a HD signal through a HD satellite STB and the decoding, and brightness have been noticeably off.

i have calibrated the TV color decoder with a HD signal generator, then input a HD signal through a HD satellite STB and the decoding, and brightness have been noticeably off.The set-top box could be the wildcard, here. These TVs can use a CableCard or receive clear-QAM (unprotected) broadcasts without such a box. For clear-QAM, the internal-source calibration works as well as I could possibly want, as there are more differences between stations than between what I see and "perfection."

The set-top box could be the wildcard, here. These TVs can use a CableCard or receive clear-QAM (unprotected) broadcasts without such a box. For clear-QAM, the internal-source calibration works as well as I could possibly want, as there are more differences between stations than between what I see and "perfection."I would agree. With the ATSC input, I calibrate it directly with the signal generator. It is just when a STB un-compresses the signal for Component or HDMI HD output, things change. This is where calibration becomes difficult without a HD signal generator. Additionally, Cable boxes do not have ATSC inputs and calibration becomes difficult unless, by chance, a broadcast test pattern can be saved with a PVR for calibration.

I think im going to call sony support and get their asses here because
sbrt is 37 and its still horrible, black crush is bad in HDTV , which i just noticed today, a guys face shadow was blending into his black jacket

Thanks KenTech and Nitewatchman!
I got it back to normal...WHEW!
Had me terribly worried for a while.
Thanks also to you guys for all the extremely valuable information you all have posted on this thread. Great stuff.
Lanny

is this the de-facto grey hair forum? :)

Another question and concern:
After I did some tweaking of the horizontal and vertical perimeters of the picture in 2170 D-1 and 2170 D-2, the size of the image is much more accurate and hardly any of the image is "chopped off" at the edges with 4:3 programs.
But...
On widescreen or HD images with the black bars above the images there are now a relatively faint red line and blue line just above the picture that run horizontally across the entire screen.
The blue line and the red line are close together [about 1 millimeter apart] and are located about 2 millimeters above the picture.
If I zoom the image to fill the screen or watch normal 4:3 programs the red and blue lines do not appear.
Why do these red and blue lines appear now?
Did I adjust or do something wrong?
Is there anyway to correct this?
Thanks again for all your help and advice.

I think im going to call sony support and get their asses here because
sbrt is 37 and its still horrible, black crush is bad in HDTV , which i just noticed today, a guys face shadow was blending into his black jacket

I'm sorry but after so many posts of you posting issues with your tv, i can officially say now that there is something wrong with your tv and you should get it fixed because at SBRT at 29-31 you should see all shadow detail.

irhxcbcziuzxs-

SBRT is not the only value that may affect a black crush. There are all of the values/codes in the "Luma" menu that have effect on black levels. But there are several controls that might be on a low setting, which should be much higher. SBOF is one such control. Check around and experiment. As i said Luma is the big one, which might have a few codes that might be of some interest. As we know there are hundreds of controls in there, and if just one of these is too low, you could be seeing too much black. You just need to find which one it is.

Otherwise, it's probably broken.

Another question concerning balck levels and brightness. I have my set calibrated with the ideal black level for watching in the dark. My set looks great but has been an overbearing picture since I had it calibrated. I wonder if it's because i have such rich black levels.... I also wonder if it has to do with gamma. My grayscale was calibrated using blue and green gamma values of 2 and 3 respectively. Gamma makes midtones lighter i understand, but i also wonder if it is causing some eyestrain, as it gives the picture more punch, but at the expense of being a little too intense. Are we generally supposed to use gammas to adjust the grayscale... as opposed to just adjusting the "cuts" and "drive's" by themselves ? Just wondering.

its only in 1080i

I wonder if it's because i have such rich black levels....

when you have rich black levels it makes your color look too high,try turning the color down a little bit or just turn up SBRT one notch to 29 instead of 28.I too was using 28 for a while but then settled on 29 since it seems to be a better compromise of shadow detail and black level.

My SBRT was calibrated to 24. If i were to raise that, wouldn't that be the same as merely raising the brightness (black level) control on the user menu? Also, aren't you supposed to calibrate black level based on the pluge patterns? Is it objective that the outer black boxes must always need to disappear?

I need to keep "color" where it is since that's the correct calibrated saturation point.

irhxcbcziuzxs, SurfingMatt27 -- Please, you need to download and examine this chart (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7046048&&#post7046048) so you can see all of the service-mode parameters that affect black level and brightness. You guys keep talking like SBRT is "the One" and that some value of SBRT is "Right." It's not and there isn't! Several settings *interact* to determine black level, and until you understand this, you will stay confused. SBRT=31 just happens to be in the middle of its range and has no special importance.

irhxcbcziuzxs - If you want to keep hammering on this one special problem you have, you might consider starting another thread that focuses on it. If your set is under warranty, ferchrissake get a tech to come out and look at it!

My SBRT was calibrated to 24. If i were to raise that, wouldn't that be the same as merely raising the brightness (black level) control on the user menu?Yes. Also, aren't you supposed to calibrate black level based on the pluge patterns? Is it objective that the outer black boxes must always need to disappear?Yes -- for the DVD input, at any rate. Broadcast black level varies all over the place, HD much less, and even some DVDs aren't dead-on. So -- you calibrate it for, say, dead-center on the Brightness control, then adjust to suit. You can't do any better. You'll at least know that when you return the Brightness slider to 31, it is at the calibrated point, and you can go from there.I need to keep "color" where it is since that's the correct calibrated saturation point.Why? That varies a lot, too! Set the Color Slider=31 and adjust service-mode settings for correct color on DVD (UCOF, say), and you can use the internal test patterns to calibrate HD and SD/480i fairly closely, too. Again, then you'll know that dead-center on the Color slider is calibrated, and if color is too much or pale, it's the DVD or broadcast, not your set. Adjust accordingly.

On widescreen or HD images with the black bars above the images there are now a relatively faint red line and blue line just above the picture that run horizontally across the entire screen.You might have a vertical color-convergence misalignment. You need to display a fine white-line crosshatch pattern from DVE or the AVIA disk (or the first in each series of internal patterns) to see if it's a problem across different types of pictures. You can simulate different zoom and compressed-height situations by setting 2170P-4/IDSW to values higher than 0 (default). (Don't WRITE this one! Return it to zero.)

Unfortunately, vertical misconvergence is a magnet-corrected problem, and you would need to call a service tech to help -- but I got it done under the service warranty.

Did i hear a hint of the lord's name taken in vain back there, and on Good Friday?? Then again, we all may have different lords so it might not even apply. I should not talk, I went to a Catholic school and I most likely will be having chicken for lunch today, so lightning is more likely to strike me before it gets to my tv antenna. Sorry, just a poor attempt at "Friday" humor.... could not resist.

I digress...

On my set, my calibrator used several test discs to compare the color from my XP-30, (making sure they all produced the same results for dvd/480p). There was even a new test disc he had downloaded online which seemed to interact accurately as well (I cannot remember the name of it, but he liked it). They all seemed to agree that the color slider on 32 (the midde/Pro offset on my set) was about a touch too low for the colors of my dvd player. This was just for my dvd player input, on other inputs for example, color-32 may very well be too high. But for dvd he adjusted SCOL from 32 to 33 to account for the difference - so the color slider could be left in the middle. He felt it better for the colors to be a touch too high than a touch too low. I actually thought the opposite, which is why i changed it back. The difference is very minimal. But yes, I always keep color slider at middle and do colors in SM for each input. I think that's what you were just referring to in your last post to me Ken.

Regarding SBRT, Ken is right. There are several items that adjust black level. I don't fiddle around with these because there are so many controls, my calibrator did fine the first time, and because I'm not quite skilled enough to manipulate all of these accurately.

Raising SBRT alone seems to merely be the same as raising brightness. You can tell there are other factors that come into play, as raising SBRT alone washes out your picture making it look ugly. You can feasibly raise SBRT, but there are other controls like BROF or SBOF and others that probably need to interact as well.

People's user menu settings are often different. If we all had our user menu settings in the middle, then we might be able to compare service menu settings a little more closely. If the set is properly calibrated, the guy who keeps brightness in the middle (50%) will most likely have a different SBRT level then the person who keeps brightness at 60%. A lot of us keep user controls at their offsets for Pro mode, and do the actual calibrating in the SM. This way if someone messes with the user menu, we will always know how to return to the correct settings by either sliding everything back to middle, or hitting "reset" on remote. Of course you have the option to change offsets, although most like the middle since it's easier to remember. My only point, is that if we swap notes on SM settings, we also need to what the user menu settings are at, since they control how much of these things are at use.

Originally Posted by daltonlanny
On widescreen or HD images with the black bars above the images there are now a relatively faint red line and blue line just above the picture that run horizontally across the entire screen

daltonlanny - My display has a slight hint of this as well. This was even present right after ISF calibration. I don't think it's much to worry about. Even when my set is converged as tight as possible, there is still a hint of blue poking out behind the cross/line. The reason for this I've heard is because: of the 3 colors, Sony televisions cannot seem to focus the blues as well as the green and red. As for the red line you see as well, all i can tell you is that red is usually the second color to misconverge on my set behind blue. But this is ever so subtle and can be ignored quite easily. Of all the problems i've seen or heard about from other sets, we're doing quite well if this is our only problem.

Hey guys I need some help. I changed the default settings for GAMM 1(pro mode) in the SM and I didn't write down the default settings. Can anybody tell me what the default settings are? I have the 34xbr910. Thanks for any help

I guess this post would be for KenTech or anyone familiar with the Audio settings in the Service menu, I went into my 32HS510 service menu and wrote down all 21 audio settings in hopes of getting my XBR960 sounding better , for some reason the HS510 has noticeably better audio especially in the bass output, I had both TV's running the same channel and made sure *all* audio settings in the user menu where matched on both when comparing.

A lot of the service menu defaults are different on my XBR960 so ill be changing those to match my HS510 soon, but the one setting im curious about is #0 ASYS , According to KenTech's info on Audio (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5627645&highlight=audio) a value of 1 means enabled and 0 "disables all effects", well on my HS510 this is set to 1 and on my XBR960 its set to 0. When I change it to 1 it sounds a little bit worse to me, Perhaps Sony changed this with the XBR960? I believe 0 means On and 1 is Off in the XBR's case.

I changed the default settings for GAMM 1(pro mode) in the SM and I didn't write down the default settings. Can anybody tell me what the default settings are? I have the 34xbr910. Thanks for any helpThe defaults are likely the same for the XBR960 and other DA-4 sets.

I don't know what you mean by "GAMM 1." For Pro mode and for *all* inputs and video modes, GAMM should be set to 0.

GAMM=0 points to a column in the table for the 4 values of GAMS~GAMB. They all should be set to zero, as well. So if you have set GAMM to 0, check the next four items for 0, too.

Does this answer your question?

A lot of the service menu defaults are different on my XBR960 so ill be changing those to match my HS510 soon, but the one setting im curious about is #0 ASYS , According to KenTech's info on Audio (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5627645&highlight=audio) a value of 1 means enabled and 0 "disables all effects", well on my HS510 this is set to 1 and on my XBR960 its set to 0. When I change it to 1 it sounds a little bit worse to me, Perhaps Sony changed this with the XBR960? I believe 0 means On and 1 is Off in the XBR's case.I think the XBR960 has slightly different speakers (a super-tweeter?) and maybe a different subwoofer than my huge 36XS955. But the charts show the same 21-parameter list for all of these sets.

ASYS is the switch that turns on all audio effects, such as equalizer and tone controls. 1 is ON.

TRCV, BACV, and MDCV (treble, bass, midrange) determine the qualitative *behavior* of the EQ controls -- whether they're manual adjustments or somehow dynamic (volume-dependent). What I determined was that when they were all set to 2, I had the equivalent of a three-band equalizer in the parameters STRE, SBAS, and MIDL (again, treble, bass, and midrange). I got very uncolored sound by setting those three thus:

(In group order) MIDL=6, SBAS=7, and STRE=9. SInce you have an XBR960, your tweeters might be more aggressive than mine, and maybe a lower STRE would work better.

I don't remember what I concluded about SVHI amd SVLO, but I have them both at the default 4.

LOFQ has something to do with deep bass. I raised it from 0 to 5. Lovely!

I have not determined exactly what MIDT, TRFQ, and PSEF do, and so I left them at default values of 0, 7, and 5.

AGCL determines how the (poor) auto-volume level feature works (SteadySound), and I found it ineffective at the default of 9. I have since changed it to 2, but the feature isn't very sophisticated, anyway.

I got get very effective "theater-bass" enhancement from the TruSurround feature, by leaving the five values of BBE~BB2L at their defaults of 1-5-4-5-4.

When TruSurround is on:
BBE seems to be a switch for treble, with 1 = ON. I leave it at 1.
BBEP affects upper-midrange-treble. Can make sound nasal or distant-sounding.
BBEL and BB2L are for (I think) bass and deep bass. (It's possible I have those descriptions reversed; but it's easy to tell when you're listening to a thumpy sound track.)
I have no idea what BB2P does yet.

I have left TRS1 and TRS2 at the defautls of 4 and 2.

So . . . this means that my current, very satisfactory settings are, in order:

1-2-2-2-4-4-6-5-7-0-9-7-5-2 -- 1-5-4-5-4 -- 4-2

The charts imply that the "BB" or bass-boost settings also affect the other audio modes (Off, SteadySound, etc.). I haven't experimented. I perceive that the sound is less warm with much less (or less exaggerated) deep bass when I shut off TruSurround, but I haven't yet tried to EQ "Off" to match TruSurround. Maybe that's a lost cause.

I have to say: As an exprienced audiophile, I am very impressed with the sound of this TV! Voice was honky out of the box, and there was some kind of annoying dynamic audio thing going on, until I set up TRCV, BACV, and MDCV at 2 and made EQ adjustments, as detailed above. Now I'm very pleased. (Some of the models may not have subwoofers, by the way.)

While I was working on the audio settings, it seemed to me that the 3 settings of TRCV~MDCV were "remembered" even after a power-cycle with no WRITE. But unplugging and replugging the set always "erased" the errant settings, returning them to normal.

Once again thanks for your informative post!


ASYS is the switch that turns on all audio effects, such as equalizer and tone controls. 1 is ON.

I believe this is backwards on XBR960's , After further testing with ASYS setting it to 1 is definately DISABLING something , I was playing MP3 tracks on my Xbox360 and when setting ASYS to 1 *all* bass output is lost and it sounds very flat, using the default 0 settings sounds much better with way more bass output.

I believe this is backwards on XBR960's , After further testing with ASYS setting it to 1 is definately DISABLING something , I was playing MP3 tracks on my Xbox360 and when setting ASYS to 1 *all* bass output is lost and it sounds very flat, using the default 0 settings sounds much better with way more bass output.This really is a puzzle! Why would this trivial switch be reversed between two examples of the same chassis? Weird, indeed!

Can I get some quick tips to fix my green issue?
Certain scenes or objects in the scene just seem to green.
I have these set to GYR-6 and GYB-3.
I think the green issue is only happening in dark scenes. Is that a grayscale issue?
Any tips would help or else I'll have to finish reading all 50 pages :)

This really is a puzzle! Why would this trivial switch be reversed between two examples of the same chassis? Weird, indeed!

It's been a while since I tweaked the "audio"(it's not all that important as I usually use "external" audio) - therefore I forget some of the "details" -- but If I recall correctly believe I'm getting the same results as Mathesar with my XBR960 concerning ASYS ....

In any case, here is what I ended up preferring :

ASYS - 0
TRCV - 2
BACV - 2
MDCV - 2
SVHI - 4
SVLO - 4
MIDL - 6
LOFQ - 5
SBAS - 7
MIDT - 0
STRE - 9
TRFQ - 7
PSEF - 5
AGCL - 4

BBE+TRS1/2 settings remain at defaults.

Can I get some quick tips to fix my green issue?
Certain scenes or objects in the scene just seem to green.
I have these set to GYR-6 and GYB-3.
I think the green issue is only happening in dark scenes. Is that a grayscale issue?
Any tips would help or else I'll have to finish reading all 50 pages :)

Is it the GCUT or GDRV I should try? Im confused on the difference between GCUT, GDRV, GYR and GYB. I have the Avia disk. Is there a specific pattern I can use to correct this?

Is it the GCUT or GDRV I should try? Im confused on the difference between GCUT, GDRV, GYR and GYB. I have the Avia disk. Is there a specific pattern I can use to correct this?For grayscale only, use any gray step-scale pattern from any test DVD or turn down the Color slider all the way on any program material. _CUT works at the near-black end of the brightness scale; use to adjust darkest tone to be neutral. _DRV (drive) works at the white end of the scale. Adjust to establish the color of neutral white (color temperature). You should be able to achieve a near-perfect black-and-white picture with no colorations.

RYR, RYB, GYR, and GYB have *nothing* to do with grayscale. They determine how color is balanced when there's color in the program. Here's where the test patterns (color bars, the 75% color blocks on DVE, flashing color segments on AVIA, etc.) really make it easy. Follow the instructions on the disk. *After* you adjust for the *amount* of color with the Color slider (the blue filter or blue guns only), you can adjust the above four color-decoding parameters using red and green filters/guns. (Turning on individual colors with 2170P-2/SRGB is way prefereble to the color filters!)

I'll bet you have grayscale issues, and you can do very well if you just set the above RYR~GYB series to 14-14-6-4, and work on grayscale. Getting the grayscale right is *very* important.

In any case, here is what I ended up preferring :

ASYS - 0
<snip>Yep. Another example of the mystery. Note that even the service-manual charts for the XBR960 show ASYS=1 as the default.

Yep. Another example of the mystery. Note that even the service-manual charts for the XBR960 show ASYS=1 as the default.

Hrm no big deal I guess but 0 is certainly the default on my XBR960, Also in your Improving The AUDIO thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5627645&highlight=audio) you mention this at the bottom of the page:

For the 34XBR960, Sony's data chart lists 0-2-0-2-4-4-10-0-8-<blank>-10-<blank>-5-9. (The first value of 0 has to be a misprint!)

Perhaps its not a misprint after all? ;)

I was able to improve the audio by changing everything to my 32HS510's default values and then slightly tweaking it from there, It now has better bass response and got rid of the annoying upper midrange loudness it has by default, It's still not quite as good as the HS510 overall but at least I got some improvement out of it.

For grayscale only, use any gray step-scale pattern from any test DVD or turn down the Color slider all the way on any program material. _CUT works at the near-black end of the brightness scale; use to adjust darkest tone to be neutral. _DRV (drive) works at the white end of the scale. Adjust to establish the color of neutral white (color temperature). You should be able to achieve a near-perfect black-and-white picture with no colorations.

RYR, RYB, GYR, and GYB have *nothing* to do with grayscale. They determine how color is balanced when there's color in the program. Here's where the test patterns (color bars, the 75% color blocks on DVE, flashing color segments on AVIA, etc.) really make it easy. Follow the instructions on the disk. *After* you adjust for the *amount* of color with the Color slider (the blue filter or blue guns only), you can adjust the above four color-decoding parameters using red and green filters/guns. (Turning on individual colors with 2170P-2/SRGB is way prefereble to the color filters!)

I'll bet you have grayscale issues, and you can do very well if you just set the above RYR~GYB series to 14-14-6-4, and work on grayscale. Getting the grayscale right is *very* important.

When I look at those gray steps on my avai dvd, I dont see any colorization besides besides black, white and gray...no green. So does that mean its not a grayscale issue?

I need a little help setting the RYR-RYB-GYR-GYB codes.

I have the Avia disk with the filters but there's three colors and four settings. I'd like to be more systematic about this than just blindly changing things. What do each of the four settings stand for?

I currently have them set at 13-15-5-3 but skintones still seem too red. Where do I go from here?

hidesertforester -

I am currently debating between 13-15-5-3 and 14-14-6-4. Most folks here will tell you that 14-14-6-4 is the closest to perfection - in adherence to color calibration and realistic skin tones. I think 14-14-6-4 looks the closest and most realistic, and eliminates a bit of the redness you're seeing in favor of very realistic skin tones.

My consensus is that the best colors lie somewhere between 13-15-5-3 and 14-14-6-4. When i ran this by my calibrator, he told me that indeed, the most precise colors usually end up being in-between some of the numbers. (Like RYR would be best at 13.5 as opposed to 14). Of all the settings though, 14-14-6-4 seems to get the closest given all the variables.

I think there's a tad too much green with 14-14-6-4, while a tad too much red in 13-15-5-3. Both work very well with the color calibration, as well as visually testing out with dvd material for realism. Of everything, those 2 color decoding patterns look the best of everything i've seen. 13-15-5-3 seems to be easier on the eyes, which is why i prefer that to 14-14-6-4. (it could be that reds are easier to see than greens -- making the picture seem sharper -- but that's just my own theory). But ignoring that, i think 14-14-6-4 gives a slight edge for realism, and seems to agree a little more with the Avia color patterns.

Again, each will get you extremely close. I personally think the best setting would lie somewhere in-between what i mentioned above. As one setting i feel has a tad more green, while the other has a bit more red. We're talking extreme precision here, but overall i think 14-14-6-4 "looks" the best. If the 13-15 setting didn't create a little less eye-train for me with my display, i would go with the 14-14 one for sure.

I understand you don't want to "blindly" set them. Someone else here can give you a description of what RYR is as opposed to RYB. I have understood the former to be color saturation, while the other is tint. There is a way to calibrate them based on an avia color pattern. Again, someone else can tell you exactly how to go about that, and why there are 4 controls, as opposed to 6. But after color calibration, about 90% of us have come out to a result that's one of the 2 settings i mentioned above. Most, who are the most accurate and precise, come out to 14-14-6-4.

For me it was either 14-14-6-4 or 15-15-6-4.

I choose the first one because the second one while good red was a bit desaturated, the first one is dead on by using DVE.

Same thing goes for SBRT at 28 or 29 i still can't seem to find a hapy medium and it seems the pefect setting is something in between like 28.5.

Well, I back with a new round of questions regarding the proportions of my 34" 955. I have been trying to optimize the picture geometry and made a discovery: my 4:3 (Normal) mode picture measured 21 1/4" by 16 3/4". Not quite 4:3. So, I need to extend the horizontal length to around 22". It seems the only way I can accomplish this is with the Blanking parameters. Is this correct? My thoughts are: if I have the raster sized correctly and the picture sized correctly on the raster, then the scaling that is performed by the image processor will be more correct. I start to see fewer artifacts if the picture proportions are correct. So, the correct raster size is my first priority.
The service manual's outline of the raster centering seems weird to me (with the AGNG setting and LANG settings?!?) At any rate, I guess I should only concern myself with the adjustments in "Full"mode.
My other issue is shown below:
Bottom
I am at a loss for a way of removing this hideous shift. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Bryan

Just to enter my own comment on the 13-15-5-3 vs. 14-14-6-4 debate, I have settled on 13-15-5-4 (note that last digit is truly 4, not 3). And I'm guessing the values one settles on is related to other values you have set elsewhere (in the user menu specifically) which also relate to color. Also, the particular input and source on that input is clearly quite relevant.

For example, while I have PRO set, I also have "color temp = cool" and "color axis = default". Obviously these user menu "tilts" affect how 13-15-5-4 (in the service menu) looks to me.

I have different user menu values for each of the four inputs I utilize (two SD and two HD), and 13-15-5-4 seems to provide perfectly realistic color to me on each of the following:

INPUT1: (D* satellite via S-video), picture=39, bright=33, color=34, hue=0, sharp=21, DRC=progressive

INPUT3: (JVC 40K for S-VHS via S-video), picture=40, bright=34, color=34, hue=0, sharp=19, DRC=progressive

INPUT5: (SD DVD player at 480p via component), picture=34, bright=36, color=36, hue=G1, sharp=min, DRC=cinemotion

INPUT6: (720p/1080i from DCT6412, JVC DT100U, JVC 40k, all via component), picture=35, bright=32, color=31, hue=0, sharp=min, DRC=n/a


Note: 13-15-5-4 (for me) was decided upon after using DVE to adjust color and brightness in the user menu. The adjustment was done while watching Leno, which in my opinion is a reference-quality show that has overall excellent color and lots of skin tone to adjust for. There was a decided red push before adjusting these four color controls in 2170P-4, and the final values were settled on using Leno's show as the benchmark.

I think i've now settled on 13-15-5-3. I've compared that to 14-14-6-4 many times. They are both VERY close with the color test. I think the former has a more attractive look to it personally. I can compare the 2 all night on dvd scenes, and they both look accurate and realistic. And between those, I think the 13-15 one has a more attractive look to it. It tones down the greens just a little, while upping the reds just a hint... while still looking realistic.

I thought that while the 14-14-6-4 had a bit more of a realistic skin tone, it had a little too much green, and dulled the image for me. The 13-15-5-3 worked just as well with the calibration, and also happens to have a more vivid/punchier (but still realistic) image.

Hrm no big deal I guess but 0 is certainly the default on my XBR960, Also in your Improving The AUDIO thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5627645&highlight=audio) you mention this at the bottom of the page: <snip> Perhaps its not a misprint after all?Well, not a misprint, exactly. There is considerable ambiguity in Sony’s own documentation, and I think we have to guess at what applies to our particular sets. It certainly confused me! See attached files for clarification.

I have two revisions of the DA-4 service manual, publication #9-965-965-01 of 6/2004 (Rev01Cover.pdf) and the latest available last spring, “rev 2/2005” #9-965-965-05 (Rev05Cover.pdf).

The tables for AUDIO are different. (Rev01+05Tables.pdf) I now see that the earlier one (top) shows ASYS=0 and a set of values identified as “KD-34XBR960 Service Data Only,” even though the manual is identified as applying to all of the DA-4 sets (see cover).

The later manual, with the same cover but listing many revisions, has a table (bottom) whose heading says “KD-30XS955...36XS955 Service Data Only,” but also shows to the right of the data: “34XBR/34XS/30XS/36XS.” What are we to make of this?

Finally the values listed as “none” actually contain values in my 36XS955: MIDT=0 and TRFQ=7, both defaults. Maybe “none” means that tese settings are there but have no effect if changed. I haven’t tested them lately.

Based on this, I say: Use your ears! If ASYS=0 is the obvious choice for your model. and ASYS=1 obviously turns off everything of value to you, use ASYS=0 and consider the values in the earlier table as your defualts. In my case the later table reresented my 36XS955 perfectly as delivered, and I’m going from there. You can see why I thought ASYS=1 was a universal default setting! Sorry for the confusion; it looks like the XBR960 is different, indeed.

This is yet another example of ambiguity or error in the service manuals; there are quite a few other examples, too!

I am currently debating between 13-15-5-3 and 14-14-6-4. Most folks here will tell you that 14-14-6-4 is the closest to perfection - in adherence to color calibration and realistic skin tones. I think 14-14-6-4 looks the closest and most realistic, and eliminates a bit of the redness you're seeing in favor of very realistic skin tones. <snip> My consensus is that the best colors lie somewhere between 13-15-5-3 and 14-14-6-4.You have, of course, two user-menu "Color Axis" settings, Default and Monitor, that you can set up any way you like. I hope you are taking full advantage of this to test out your settings preferences.

To follow-up my first question, I should ask people who know: Is the scaling by the image processor applied based on the size of the raster itself or the picture that is layered over the raster. I ask because based on the picture of the huge image shift shown on the internal crosshatch pattern I provided in my last post, this shift is only translated to the screen when watching cable. It does not manifest in the picture if I am viewing a DVD. Is there an explanation for this?
I am still having a hard time getting the proportions of my screen (like when viewing a crosshatch pattern) to be linear from top to bottom and left to right. I have tried the VLIN and VSCO for vert and SLIN for horizontal, but there is always some compression of the image in various places. That is why I am trying to start with a correctly sized raster and go from there. Do geometry settings affect the raster or image? I'm sure I can work this out, I just need some of the basic concepts explained.
Also, I think I have my raster size and positions in general agreement with the service manual, but this makes my MID2 settings seem quite extreme. Some even run out of room to adjust all together. Does anyone have a better/more systematic approach to working out this raster sizing? Specifically, how do you make sure you are viewing the raster's edge? My process starts with shrinking the raster to a low number and then expanding the picture with the MID2 settings until the edge of the picture (again, the internal 1080 crosshatch pattern) just starts to disappear. This, to me, seems to identify the raster edge. Am I completely wrong?
Please lend me some advice and thank you for your time.

Bryan

You have, of course, two user-menu color-matrix settings that you can set up any way you like. (They're called, what?, Monitor and Normal?) I hope you are taking full advantage of this to test out your settings preferences.


I don't believe have those options on my user menu. This might be another example of different displays, different settings.

Quick sidenote - my color decoding settings did not work for the Toshiba HD player. But perhaps their colors may need to be calibrated differently altogether. By the way, this player upconverts beautifully for SD dvd's. It produces a better image than the XP.... a little better. And that is saying a lot! But that discussion is for another thread.

I don't believe have those options on my user menu. This might be another example of different displays, different settings.Not even under the "Advanced"settings? It's really called "Color Axis," and the choices are Default and Monitor.

Not even under the "Advanced"settings? It's really called "Color Axis," and the choices are Default and Monitor.

In my advanced menu, for my KP-57ws520, there is no color axis feature in the User Menu.

There is a color value called "Axis" in the service menu. The value of this "axis" ranges from 0 to 3. Out-of-the-box, each axis value referred to a different color decoding pattern. This is similar to how the mide/pop value points to different set of mide columns. So...for the sake of science, I tried setting each axis value to the same pattern (14-14-6-4 for example), and then toggled through each of the Axis's, and i saw no difference. I currently have axis set to "1."

My new CRT finally arrived yesterday. :) In the interim I took the television down to the bare plastic parts, fixed any nicks, sanded with very fine wet paper, cleaned with ammonia/water solution & painted the set gloss black with Fussion for plastic followed by 1500 grit sanding before laying down the final wet coat.

The set looks like a beautiful piano gloss black now to match my entertainment equipment. Makes the set look less bulky & the black actually improves the picture a little. I do not recommend anyone do this unless they are out of warranty, have a few nicks, happen to need a new CRT & are unhappy with gray.

I was pleasantly surprised to have lucked out & gotten an American made CRT which is becoming rare.

Installed it into the set & put the chassis back in. Fired it up & to my amazement it was almost dead-on upon initial fire up. I plan to let the tube burn in for a while before going through the entire setup, high voltage, purity, convergence & calibration. Right now it looks almost as good as any set looks right out of the box. Looks like this tube will not require any magnets at all.

My set also had a problem with the "BY" board which I repaired myself by replacing the CXA2170Q IC. That was a most delicate soldering job. 64 pins that are extremely close together.

Set has been up & running for 18 hours now & is working fine. This picture tube is much crisper than the one that was in it before.

Looking forward to what this set will do once dialed in.

Will be playing with the internal patterns, my generator & KenTech's patterns along with the DVE disc. Time to have a little fun with this thing.

So...for the sake of science, I tried setting each axis value to the same pattern (14-14-6-4 for example), and then toggled through each of the Axis's, and i saw no difference. I currently have axis set to "1."But all you've proved is that, when you set them all the same, they look the same. It seems to me you'd want to set the four columns to *different* values, and *then* cycle through the four values of AXIS to see how the four settings-groups differ. (The bummer is that you can't do this outside of service mode.)

How do I enter the service menu on my 36XS955? Thanks

How do I enter the service menu on my 36XS955? ThanksSee message #3 in this thread.

But all you've proved is that, when you set them all the same, they look the same. It seems to me you'd want to set the four columns to *different* values, and *then* cycle through the four values of AXIS to see how the four settings-groups differ. (The bummer is that you can't do this outside of service mode.)

What I was trying to prove here -- by seeing that all four axis values all look alike with the same 4 values of color decoding each -- is that you can have a choice of up to 4 color decoding settings among the several inputs. The value you have for "Axis" on each input is not global, but the color decoding pattern linked to it is. In other words, for component you could have Aixis=2, while for HDMI have Axis=1. From what i'm understanding, you don't have to settle on one color decoding pattern for all of the inputs.

I did not see the significance of cycling through the 4 Axis values too much. All i had to do was take note of which RYB-GYB pattern was linked to each Axis value. I would get the same effect by merely entering in each of these respective color decoding patterns into say, Axis-0, to see how they looked.

I still have the default values, for the other Axis's i'm not using, stored in there -- since i'm not 100% sure the full effect of changing axis, and to keep original settings in tact. I am keeping my Axis how it is, although i was very curious to know how it truly functions. It seems to me it only points to the 4 different color decoding values. If it's not doing anything else than that, then what i said might be true, but if it affects something else, then not.

Does anyone out there know the full effect of the "Axis" value? All that i said above is just a guess from what i've seen, if i'm wrong someone correct me.

I think my posts got lost in the shuffle. Could anyone respond to my posts #1460 and #1465.

Thank you,

Bryan

Bryan,

AFIK, the image is displayed within the raster. The Sony should be aligned from the factory with the raster centered. All of the SM adjustments align the picture within the raster.

It’s been a while since I have done the geometry on a Sony DV, however my approach has been to do the master geometry in 2170D-1/2/3, first, then use the MID1/2/3 to tweak the individual configurations. It can be very time consuming and may need to go through the whole process many times to converge on a final configuration that works for all inputs.

The severe image shift in your picture is usually from the image being shifted too far. At times, on some TVs, the only way to eliminate this is with overscan.

It is also best if you can use a source test pattern. Internal test patterns are fine, however your source may shift the image or be sized slightly different.

Thank you for the reply, Glen! Regarding the shift at the bottom, you stated that it was from the image being shifted too far. Could you elaborate?
Also, would color banding (false contours) come from the inadequicies of the source material or is it a function of the interal processing of the monitor? (Both?)
I am trying to "scientifically" ;) decipher the "cause and effect" of the adjustments I am making.
Again, thanks for your time.

Bryan

For grayscale only, use any gray step-scale pattern from any test DVD or turn down the Color slider all the way on any program material. _CUT works at the near-black end of the brightness scale; use to adjust darkest tone to be neutral. _DRV (drive) works at the white end of the scale. Adjust to establish the color of neutral white (color temperature). You should be able to achieve a near-perfect black-and-white picture with no colorations.

RYR, RYB, GYR, and GYB have *nothing* to do with grayscale. They determine how color is balanced when there's color in the program. Here's where the test patterns (color bars, the 75% color blocks on DVE, flashing color segments on AVIA, etc.) really make it easy. Follow the instructions on the disk. *After* you adjust for the *amount* of color with the Color slider (the blue filter or blue guns only), you can adjust the above four color-decoding parameters using red and green filters/guns. (Turning on individual colors with 2170P-2/SRGB is way prefereble to the color filters!)

I'll bet you have grayscale issues, and you can do very well if you just set the above RYR~GYB series to 14-14-6-4, and work on grayscale. Getting the grayscale right is *very* important.

I checked my GDRV and GCUT and they are both set to 24. If I turn it down past 18, it starts to go red. I know every TV can be different but what do you guys have yours set to?

See message #3 in this thread.

How did I miss that?? Thanks Ken

I'm trying to set screen (g2) on the flyback & the technical manual is not clear.

It says to input a white field into Video 1.

Set to service mode & adjust as follows:

Fig 1. CXA2170P-2 PICO 1->0

The operation procedure says:

1) In full mode, apply changes in figure 1.

2) Mount G2 adjustment jig. Adjust cathode voltage if the standard is not met. Standard varies by CRT size.

3) Adjust G2 by flyback transformer (t8001).

4) Return data changes in 1) to original condition.

The only standard listed is 170 +/- 5 Vdc

My question is where do you get the adjustment jig? The tech manual does not specify which pin to take the measurement from or where any jumpers would be installed.

Anyone familiar with this or have a tech manual that is more clear than mine? If this is not the right forum any help pointing me to the correct one would be appreciated.

I think I have it set close enough now but I wanted to follow procedure. Everywhere I have looked everyone seems a little confused about Sony's procedure on this.

If this thread wasn't 74+ pages, I wouldn't posting this.

I need to fix the overscan on my television. I have the 30HD420. The overscan is nearly an inch off, it's bad. How do I go about fixing this?

If this thread wasn't 74+ pages, I wouldn't posting this.

I need to fix the overscan on my television. I have the 30HD420. The overscan is nearly an inch off, it's bad. How do I go about fixing this?There is a "Search This Thread" feature at the top of the page. Could you try this first, please? It has, indeed, been discussed before in this thread.

Dorn - or if you can't find anything on AVS-search (you should be able to find a lot with the right search) try doing a google search for "fix overscan." I saw a couple websites that might lead you in the right direction.

Everyone else - I talked a little earlier about this, and searched the site and didn't find much. What is the function of the "Axis" value in the service menu? It sounds like a lot of you have a color axis feature in your user menus. On my set, there is none, but in the service menu, adjacent to the color decoder values (RYR-GYB) there is a value called "Axis." I discussed it above briefly in what i've found with it. After experimenting more, I've found that the image seems a little different when switching "axis" from 0 to 1, even when each is linked to the same color-decoder sequences.

On another note, I found a color-decoding pattern I like a little better. I calibrated my set to 14-14-4-3, it seemed the best with the DVE test pattern. It also aesthetically looks the best for dvd's. I liked 14-14-6-4, and as uniform as it looks on the DVE pattern, I felt the greens showed up just a touch too dark on the pattern, which was evident in dvd's (there seemed to be a slight push of green in many scenes). 13-15-5-3 worked as well, eliminating the greens but adding a bit too much red i thought. I was searching for some compromise, and found 14-14-4-3 as working rather well to balance things off. Another fellow with my same display also found this. There seems to be no push of one color with this.

It just took me about 30 seconds to use the "search" this thread function for "overscan" and pull out a couple of helpful posts out of the 128 results for the search which turned up. Here are a couple of links to a couple of those posts which should hopefully be useful :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6261395&&#post6261395

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6260514&&#post6260514

The "search this thread" function is very useful ... However, as one who has followed along with this thread from the very beginning - to get the most use of it, there is probably no substitiute for spending quite a bit of time researching and "pulling out" the info from this thread that you're interested in. Certianly, it is unfortunate there is a lot to "wade" through for someone new to this thread, but that's just the way things are. Also, you'll find updated and "improved" or corrected/etc. info in some cases in later posts, so in some cases you don't want to necessary use the info from the first "post" you find on any given subject. I think that's what works best on a forum/thread such as this -- Read and research and try to find what you are looking for first, and *then*, when/if necessary - ask questions.

In my case, when I was following along with this thread, I copied the info/posts I was most interested in and put them in a Word Doc file. Sorry, I can't forward that to anyone that might be interested as I also included placed quite a few PM's in the document and it would be extremely difficult to remove those + only include the "public" posts, and I also became *neligent* in updating the document when I began spending more time posting .... Besides, that file is about 150pages long, so it's not necessarily going to be much easier to sift through for folks looking for "quick" info on a specific subject ....

I just don't think we can keep repeating info over+over+over again(that's one of the reasons this thread is as long as it is), as, for one thing it requires "beyond the call of duty" effort from the folks who are providing the excellent info(probaby Ken in particular). I also expect in many cases the poster asking questions+looking for "quick" answers will spend just as much time(along with the poster who is trying to answer his questions) with "new" posts rehashing info that has been posted before(often in *extreme* detail) as would be the case via a little research ...

If anyone happens to have a lot of extra time on their hands -- I've often thought that a post with an "index" to the URL's to the most useful posts in this thread might be very useful for new folks ... Perhaps someone(or a "group" of folks) who are going back through this thread and pulling out the most useful posts could do this without it being a lot of "extra" work for them ....

Just my .02 cents FWIW ....

If this thread wasn't 74+ pages, I wouldn't posting this.

I need to fix the overscan on my television. I have the 30HD420. The overscan is nearly an inch off, it's bad. How do I go about fixing this?My opinion is: if you don't want to spend the time to read and learn, then hire a local calibrator to fix it for you. You won't have to spend the time to read the thread and won't have to spend all the time to fix overscan.

One thing to note here, many that get involved in "tweaking", will generally spend more time tweaking than reading the thread. There is a wealth of information in this thread, thanks to the countless hours of tweaking and analyzing that has been done by a few participants.

It's really lame to see a thread 1400+ posts long and just ask for a quick fix answer.

The "value" to me in reading through this whole thread has been tremendous. At first, I admit that I wanted to quickly "tweak" to perfection. So I started from the beginning. I only needed to read the first few pages to learn that "quick" was an unrealistic expectation, and "tweak" was a wholly unrealistic approach.

The first lesson I gained in reading this thread was "process." That what I wanted to do meant beginning a process, for both the tv and for my education. I haven't gotten very far yet. Along with a proper Avia user menu calibration, I have adjusted for overscan, picture centering and size, red push, and various "sharpness" adjustments in the SM. That's it! I will do much more but I like to really test my adjustments over decent periods of time to decide if I even like what I've done. And from my job I learned that you change one thing at a time in order to discern what adjustment caused what change.

I so appreciate all of those who have contributed to this thread. I get so much out of the give and take on each subject, and the times when they get revisited as new info comes to light. More and more I'm inclined to refuse to give out quick-fix SM adjustments. So often, I learn that the person I thought I was helping failed to record original values, or something else and is now posting all over the place trying to get more quick-fixes. On another forum I frequent, the mods and regulars have resorted to "read the FAQ" or "read this sticky." I think that's where I'm headed.

Excellent posts GlenC+Justsc! I couldn't agree more with everything in your posts ...

Also I hope Dorn doesn't take our responses the wrong way -- As I was thinking it might appear as if we are "picking on him" and singling him out, since it's certianly not the first time such a comment as "I don't want to dig through this thread to find the answer" has been posted here ... I just think it's good several of us have pointed out some of the "problems" involved with that "approach" .....

I do hope someone can answer AncientOne's question about the jig for G2 voltage adjustment, as I don't think the issue in this case involves a question that has been answered previously in the thread, instead I suspect no-one has came across an adequete answer for him yet ... It in fact may be one of the very few questions posed on this thread(if not the only one!) which has not, as of yet received an adequete response ....

My opinion is: if you don't want to spend the time to read and learn, then hire a local calibrator to fix it for you. You won't have to spend the time to read the thread and won't have to spend all the time to fix overscan.


Just to add .... Let's see ... How can I put this as I don't mean for this to sound like an "ad" for ISF calibration, and personally I enjoy "doing it myself" as much as possible(to the best of my ability+with the tools+info I have available) ....

But if it's solely the *cost* of a "Pro" calibration that is an issue for folks -- my opinion is --- don't let it be - As perhaps unless you're already very familiar with the "workings" of your particular set(and even then, I suspect you're still going to end up spending a lot of time on it) -- By the time you're "done" and have spent many many hours researching and working on your set --- I suspect It is extremely likely You *will* have felt you've put much more time and effort into it than the cost of a calibration ....

wow this thread has been good to me : ]

I have one question, is there a way to influence the refresh-rate on the 34955? I can see that I get some ghosting with bright games (60fps or more) that have contrasting black backgrounds --- just a little light trail.

I remember reading somewhere in this massive thread about being able to crank your refresh-rate up to 80hz... or maybe i was mistaken ..... maybe confused...

I can see that I get some ghosting with bright games (60fps or more) that have contrasting black backgrounds --- just a little light trail. I remember reading somewhere in this massive thread about being able to crank your refresh-rate up to 80hz... or maybe i was mistaken ..... maybe confused...Please read this message (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7218267&&#post7218267).

Refresh rate has no bearing on phosphor trailing. This TV is not a multisync monitor, and the refresh rate is sync'd to the video standard for which it was intended: 60 or 50Hz.

Please read this message (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7218267&&#post7218267).

Refresh rate has no bearing on phosphor trailing. This TV is not a multisync monitor, and the refresh rate is sync'd to the video standard for which it was intended: 60 or 50Hz.

thanks, makes sense : ] much appreciated ---

I had a brilliant time tonight with the MID-1 settings --- they work for adjusting my 1080i when using my 360 --- I was able to get rid of almost ALL of the overscan --- for reference, I am able to see the ENTIRE blue HUD in GRAW (when before It would mostly crop out, with just 2170D-2 deflection adjusted --- and out of the box none of the blue HUD was visible)
here's a shot of GRAW: http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/736/736206/img_3441518.html

since my geometry was pretty good out of the box (and I just had 2170D-2 settings adjusted to account for overscan) I was able to revert back to my "out of box" settings and go with the MID-1 adjustments ---

it just seems too damn good to be true, a CRT with this little overscan --- something must be wrong :confused: ----- the image looks so insanely good, sized correctly, and I'm able to view almost the entire game resolution (it doesn't seem that "zoomed" effect that large overscan gives on some games)

if anyone experements with the MID-1 setting let me know what your experience is, and I'll keep you guys updated.

I posted some pictures over in the KD30XS955 thread of a problem I'm having with my set. It was suggested that this problem might be fixable using codes in the service menu. I've searched this thread for variations on my problem, but I don't think I know the correct search terms to use. Based on the images in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7546253&&#post7546253), do you think this is a problem that is addressable using the service menus? I'm trying to figure out if this is a warranty issue or not.

I also posted some more details here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7554180&&#post7554180) and here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7554244&&#post7554244).

To summarize, I see mostly green (sometimes blue) fringes on the left side of 4:3 content, no matter the source or input selected. I also see green fringes inside the image in areas of high contrast edges, such as the side of a face against a dark background. Finally, the lines that form the boxes in the menus seem to be discolored. Horizontal lines are grey, but vertical lines are all blueish. I don't think this is normal. I've scanned this thread and searched for things like "green edges," "green fringe," etc, but I haven't found anything that fits. As I said above, I may not know the correct search terms to use for this issue. Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

As a side note, I had warranty service on this set to address some red scanlines, and the tech said the lines were just coming from the signal source. I hadn't really noticed the problems along the sides of faces and other places yet, so I didn't have any reason to dispute him then.

I think it may have been in here somewhere but i cant find it...

when i shrink my screen horizontally to check for overscan, i notice that about 1/2 of an inch at the VERY bottom is all slanted 90 degree's to the left.. this is normally hidden by the frame of the tv as they set it to be overscann at the factory, i find it odd tho that only the bottom does this.. Normal? any way to fix?..

also there's no tilt controll on these things is there, i find mine is SLIGHTLY to the right a bit too much...

Jinx,
I have a picture of the problem you describe in my post #1460. It seems that there are a lot of people having this problem, but I still haven't heard any suggestions to correct it. Guess we are locked into 5%+ overscan all around! HOORAY!!! :mad:
I am also trying to find others that have a newish 955 model and can tell me how they are adjusting the 1080 and 480 picture modes when we don't have the MID3 settings that everyone else has. It would be nice to be able to adjust the screen and verify that there is a 1:1 translation of the image. Any information on how to check that would be appreciated.

...end rant.

Bryan

Yep thats my problem exactly! looks like you have better geometry tho than me...

So are the files in the first post dead? I cannot seem to download them.

So are the files in the first post dead? I cannot seem to download them.I just downloaded them, no problem. I guess on a PC you have to right-click, and save to disk.

wow this thread has been good to me : ]

I have one question, is there a way to influence the refresh-rate on the 34955? I can see that I get some ghosting with bright games (60fps or more) that have contrasting black backgrounds --- just a little light trail.

I remember reading somewhere in this massive thread about being able to crank your refresh-rate up to 80hz... or maybe i was mistaken ..... maybe confused...

The trails go away after a while, just give the tv time. As the tv ages it starts to get unnoticeable.

I've had my sony 34hs420 for almost 3 years now and i don't notice any trailing anymore.I had trailing like you when it was new but after a while it starts to go away.There is also reasons why it's so apparent, one could be too high a contrast setting or too low a brightness settings..either one can cause mtrailing if set too high or low.

I've been trying to get the geometry right on my kv-30hs420 for quite some time now. The problem I am experiencing is that no matter how much I work to straighten the entire grid, I just can't seem to get the top left corner to align.

I took a photo of it and would really appreciate any advice/info what-so-ever on the issue. The angle is a bit off on the photo, but its enough to get an idea of what I am talking about.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Click here for photo (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/hudsonkm/geom.jpg)

Reading (parts of) this thread has been a very informative and enlightening experience. It has been exactly what I was looking for, KenTech you are the best-est! I've been reading it for about two days now and my display model KV34HS420 is now looking WAY better than it did before I got it. When I first started reading these posts they were dated about a year ago and the topic is still live and kicking today! I haven't read all the pages, or even close, but I did follow all the guides in the early pages.

I seem to have almost all my issues fixed except for:

1 - A convergence issue I haven't seen mentioned yet, but I am still searching the thread. It seems related to the tilt control. It's as if the red is at 'tilt 1' and the blue is at 'tilt -1'. Basically, in the top left corner I can notice a slight red convergence artifact on top of the white horizontal grid lines. In the top right corner I can notice a slight blue artifact on top of the horizontal. If I could do a tilt on just the red or the blue, just a tiny bit, it would fix all the little convergence issues in the corners of my set, as far as I can tell. From what I've been reading, this is a magnet issue. But it seems like the 'tilt' function could fix this if it allows you to do a separate 'tilt' for each color. Of course, maybe that is something you need magnets for as well.

2 - I have a slight purity issue in the upper left corner, and another slight purity issue on the edge right by RUMB. I understand these might be fixable with the 'landing' settings, so I am searching more on that now. What I can't find is where the landing settings are on the KV34HS420? Is it supposed to be a catagory in the SM, because I don't seem to have one. If not, which catagory is it in?

Thanks for all your .jpgs and .pdfs KenTech! They really have helped to turn this floor model TV into something that almost looks brand new!

Convergence on the horizontal lines cannot be done in the SM.

Would the photo I posted represent a covergence issue? I've been a bit confused as to why I cant get the upper left corner to align.

Click here for photo (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/hudsonkm/geom.jpg)

Jinx,
I've got a 2wk old 30XS955 that has the same 2 vertical "lines" in the same area as you've posted about on your set.
I was just wandering how noticable they are now after a few months and if you've been able to reduce them with some SM work.

Tom H.