[NOTE: A regularly-updated Table of Contents follows this Introductory article]

01 - INTRODUCTION

Following is a continuing series of short articles about the Sony service codes and what they do. (Comments, additions, corrections, and discussion welcome!) No one has yet come up with an official source for the detailed code descriptions, although the charts that are available from the service manuals are a big help, especially in understanding the relationships among some of the codes. Where there is speculation involved, I'll try to be fairly open about my thought processes so some sort of informal “peer review” can take place in this forum. I am an engineer and scientist by trade and with decades of experience, and I feel quite fearless to try anything that makes sense. I hope I can contribute some insight - or at least the results of some my reckless experimentation!

I own a fairly new Sony 36XS955, plus a decent Toshiba SD3950 DVD player, really good SHVS decks from JVC and Mitsubishi, and clear reception of HDTV in the Portland, OR, area from an attic antenna (UHF, $25 from Radio Shack). I am using the latest Digital Video Essentials (DVE) DVD, the single disk for DVD-NTSC. I have a good eye for color from lots of experience setting up to graphic artists' computer monitors, working in digital photo-editing, and enjoying color photography as a once-semi-business, now hobby. I enjoy a bit of an obsessive-compulsive streak that has served me well in most things.

I have made such substantial improvements to my TV that I can't imagine others not wanting to do the same. Some of these settings were brain-damaged out of the box (black level!), and others evidenced little insight or care in their initial settings (color temp, corner color purity, centering). The picture modes other than Pro can be hijacked for your own purposes for different setting-groups or suites that suit *you.* I have no need for Vivid, for example, so it's open for repurposing. The Picture Modes are just groups of settings and can be made all identical, if you wish, then altered to suit different purposes. If you write down the original settings or have a decent chart for your set, then the original settings - should you ever wish to return - won't be lost. Clear thinking and an aptitude for fussy detail are required, however, and the undisciplined or impulsive (you know who you are!) may wish to avoid any of this.

The purpose is to share what I *think* I have deduced or know first-hand about the codes and to stimulate others to contribute to these threads with additions, questions, and clarifications. While experimenting, it is possible to gain sudden insight into how these settings relate to one another, test it out, then comment publicly, to everyone's benefit.

Others have contributed generously to this discussion already. Let's keep this discussion lighthearted, clearheaded, and free from fearmongering. The risks of tinkering are not nearly so great as some would have you believe.

Mild rant: It's my strong opinion that the following CAUTIONS are mandatory:

HAVE AVAILABLE at least one copy of the service-data chart for a TV similar or identical to yours. These charts, derived from Sony's own data, are indispensable for seeing the relationships among the settings that interact and their relationships to the various operational modes. Some settings, for example, simply point to columns elsewhere in the code tables, and it wouldn't be obvious without the charts.

An aside: The signal- and deflection-processor chips are identical for all of these late-model sets in the HS, XS, and XBR lines of CRT TVs. It’s called a CXA2170, and the code groups are named for the processor: 2170P for “picture” parameters, and 2170D for “deflection” parameters. Even if the exact factory defualts don’t match what your set’s exact chart might show, in many cases they are close or are actually identical — but that’s NOT really why you have the chart. It is to allow you to map those codes to rational concepts. Get a chart; it’s your road map! If it matches your set, all the better for those default settings. You’re going to pencil-in your initial settings anyway, right? (Same generally goes for the other chips, too.)

ALSO HAVE AVAILABLE the widely-circulating Excel spreadsheet or its PDF equivalent, which lists the service codes and some good commentary and description on what they do. It's not the last word, as it is a work in progress; but it helps a lot by complementing the data charts.

KEEP RECORDS of what you are doing, especially the factory settings before you change them. A notebook with generous penciled notes is a great idea. Or pencil-in numbers directly onto the charts and lists. Whatever works to keep you from burning bridges.

[The attached files are Sony's very useful charts of service data for these TVs.]

*******************************************************
A TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR THIS FORUM
[Currently ends at message #1940, 16 Aug 2006]

Assume that any link below may be just the beginning of a subject, and that the discussion/responses may continue for many posts to follow. Please PM me with corrections and suggestions. Links are underlined. Attached-file links are indented.

Forum Pages 1-10 (30 messages per page), Posts #1-300

01 - INTRODUCTION ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5497242&&#post5497242)
- - hs420 service data chart.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36238)
- - XS955:XBR960 Service Data.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=42233)
Excel Service-Codes Listing ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5497298&&#post5497298)
- - servicecodelisting.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36246)
02 - NAVIGATING SERVICE MODE ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5497408&&#post5497408)
- - servmodehelp.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36240)
03 - COLOR CALIBRATION AND BLACK LEVEL ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5497452&&#post5497452)
04 - ADJUSTING GAMMA ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5497493&&#post5497493)
05 - CUSTOMIZING PICTURE MODES ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5497510&&#post5497510)
06 - AUTO BRIGHTNESS LIMITING ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5497515&&#post5497515)
07 - DYNAMIC FOCUS ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5497529&&#post5497529)
- - servicecodeslist (34XBR910).pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36245)
- - convergencepage.pdf (HS420) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36249)
- - geometrypages.pdf (HS420) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36250)
RE: “Dead” on Startup + Fix ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5502161&&#post5502161)
08 - SOME USEFUL TEST PATTERNS ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5522634&&#post5522634)
- - converg_geom_test.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36402)
FOCUS TEST PATTERNS ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5522658&&#post5522658)
- - focus16by9.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36403)
- - focus4by3.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36404)
"SPOKES" TEST PATTERN ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5522678&&#post5522678)
- - spokes.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36405)
ADJACENT-COLOR TEST PATTERN ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5522682&&#post5522682)
- - adjacentcolors.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36406)
CURRENT-GAMMA TEST PATTERN ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5522689&&#post5522689)
- - curr_gamma_test.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36407)
09 - GETTING GOOD GRAYSCALE ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5530287&&#post5530287)
10 - "PRESETS" AND RELATED SERVICE CODES ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5530785&&#post5530785)
- - xs955|xbr960 geometry.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36477)
- - xs955 service data.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36480)
- - 34XBR960 service data.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=36481)
11 - IMPROVING THE AUDIO ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5627645&&#post5627645)
12 - OPTIMIZING IMAGE DECODING, "SHAPING," AND ENHANCEMENT ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5637661&&#post5637661)
- - Image_Processing_rev1_1.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=42225)
- - image_optimizing-pats.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=37173)
4:3 and 16:9 Focus Test Patterns ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5648357&&#post5648357)
- - focusmatrix_4x3sparse.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=37174)
- - focusmatrix_16x9sparse.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=37175)
Convergence-geometry manual pages, XBR960+XS955:
- - xbr960_conv_geom_p1-6.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=37942)
- - xbr960_conv_geom_p7-10.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=37943)
Comments on convergence, LANDING settings ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5687363&&#post5687363)
Comments on colorimetry and the 6500K standard begin ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5741450&&#post5741450)
- - XS955|XBR960 Block Diagram.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38581)
Ref. to Poynton etc. regarding Gamma ( http://www.poynton.com/notes/color/GammaFQA.html) and here ( http://www.w3.org/TR/PNG-GammaAppendix.html)
13.1 - PRECISION FOCUSING: ACCESSING THE INTERNAL FOCUS CONTROL ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5774400&&#post5774400)
- - Part1_Figures.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38829)
13.2 - PRECISION FOCUSING: A RECOMMENDED PROCEDURE ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5774412&&#post5774412)
- - FocusMatrix_4x3_1080.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38831)
- - FocusMatrix_16x9_1080.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38840)
- - Part2_Figs_Patterns.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38841)
Comment on balancing SBRT, Brightness, and the UBOF settings ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5800847&&#post5800847)
14 - A SERVICE-MODE BUG; THE DVE PLASTIC VIEWING FILTERS ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5851771&&#post5851771)
15 - THE COLOR OF BLACK: OTHER POSSIBLE COLOR ADJUSTMENTS ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5857455&&#post5857455)
The “set Color to Min” controversy & setting grayscale & offsets begins here ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5879589&&#post5879589)
Color balance vs color “push” ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5906123&&#post5906123)
Judging color tints & pitfalls ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5918321&&#post5918321)

Forum Pages 11-20 #301-600

White screen and color “blobs” ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5927085&&#post5927085)
“White clipping” or brightness limiting as it applies to these TVs ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5929331&&#post5929331)
The “industry standards” diatribe ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5929655&&#post5929655)
More on intensity vs the CRT’s capabilities ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5934041&&#post5934041)
Dynamic Picture, Gamma, and the non-Pro modes ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5992974&&#post5992974)
- - The Excel Spreadsheet, “ADR” version ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=41552)
Reference to online copy of 34XBR2 service manual ( https://www.vancebaldwin.com/shop/research_new/SON/KD34XBR2.pdf)
- - The geometry pages from the above manual (PDF file) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=42213)
Intro to internal test patterns ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6166328&&#post6166328) and also here ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6181230&&#post6181230)
Wrong method for adjusting overscan! ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6260514&&#post6260514) See this caution (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7909446&&#post7909446).
Setting black level for different inputs — again (long) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6280448&&#post6280448)
Geometry-adjustment & magnets, real-world experience ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6325690&&#post6325690)
Bad advice again on height & width adjustments in MID processor (DSperber) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6346890&&#post6346890). See this caution (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7909446&&#post7909446).

Forum Pages 21-30, #601-900

DSperber again on geometry ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6764404&&#post6764404)
KenTech: Refining the image; eliminating ringing & edge enhancement ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6916789&&#post6916789)
- - The referenced chart, latest version (IPChart06Tall.pdf) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=52616)
Comments on focusing the tube ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6917038&&#post6917038)
The service-codes charts, again ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6920824&&#post6920824)
- - 34XBR910 Service Menu vADR.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=50146)
- - XS955:XBR960 Service Data.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=50147)
Warning about warmup changes ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6921095&&#post6921095)
Discussion of MTRX (SD vs HD color matrices) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6947744&&#post6947744)
Nitewatchman starts his :) breathless posts ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6968302&&#post6968302)
Nitewatchman on MS color and MTRX “unpredictability” ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6982588&&#post6982588)
KenTech on MTRX & service-data charts ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6987713&&#post6987713)
“Coring” and “Limiting” in the image processing discussed here ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6995036&&#post6995036) and here ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7003329&&#post7003329)
Using the QM test patterns for color calibration ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7005314&&#post7005314)
Argument for DIY adjustment ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7026164&&#post7026164)
Centering the raster and the video frame ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7026367&&#post7026367)
Warning for fast-fingers on remote while in service mode ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7028963&&#post7028963)
HELPFUL NEW CHARTS ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7046048&&#post7046048)
- - GS&ColorCharts04.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=51546)

Forum Pages 31-40, #901-1200

Using a DVD frame for show-and-tell ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7050727&&#post7050727)
- - Sample frame from Monsters, Inc. ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=51550)
Cautions on color “correction” in CXA2171 processor ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7053093&&#post7053093)
A suggestion on using the Picture Modes for experimentation ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7067384&&#post7067384)
Observation on the characteristics of the SYSM settings in 2170P-3 ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7076359&&#post7076359)
Observation on the configuring of VM ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7077227&&#post7077227)
More image-processing parameters discussed (ADU) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7085140&&#post7085140)
here (ADU) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7090767&&#post7090767) and also More on image-processing as a “frequency-response” matter (several messages) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7097547&&#post7097547)
More on “sharpness” and how SM-settings affect it (Napoleon D) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7104252&&#post7104252)
The HDPT (high-def pass-thru) parameter — Is it dangerous? ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7111163&&#post7111163)
Recommendations for small “Warm” and “Cool” color offsets ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7138737&&#post7138737) and here ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7139689&&#post7139689)
Article: The “Neglected” CXA-2103 Image Filters and Their Significant Effects on Image Quality ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7152546&&#post7152546) and this revision note ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7154835&&#post7154835)
New experiments with the 2103-1 parameters, SSMD and PPHA ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7158646&&#post7158646)
New Image-Processing Codes Chart: IPChart06tall.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=52616)
ADU: More on image-detail parameters ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7169411&&#post7169411)
A method of setting LANDING parameters ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7174280&&#post7174280)
Definitive Statement Regarding Phosphor "Lag" (Persistence) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7218267&&#post7218267)
Article: ”Tuning” the 2103 Processor for the Cleanest, Sharpest Picture ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7289196&&#post7289196)
Article: A New Approach to SYSM=3 Image Processing ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7289854&&#post7289854)
More on what MIDE is all about ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7307059&&#post7307059)
Minor Changes to SYSM=3 Recommendations and "Tuning" the 2103 Chip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7312545&&#post7312545)
Some clarification about VM (scan-velocity modulation) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7314307&&#post7314307)
SERVICE-MODE DOCUMENTS & CHARTS REPOST ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7326469&&#post7326469)
- - XS955|XBR960 conv_geom_p1-6.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=54145)
- - XS955|XBR960 conv_geom_p7-10.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=54146)
- - XS955|XBR960 Service Data.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=54147)

Forum Pages 41-50, #1201-1500

More on color and its decoding matrix ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7356776&&#post7356776)
BY REQUEST, A FEW CURRENT SETTINGS (KenTech) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7383118&&#post7383118)
A summary of the internal test patterns ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7393075&&#post7393075)
A source of convergence-correction magnets? (DSperber) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7438126&&#post7438126)
Service-mode AUDIO settings (and see subsequent posts) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7487516&&#post7487516) and also here ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7506917&&#post7506917)
- - Also see conflicting data tables here ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=56003)

Forum Pages 51-60, #1501-1800

Is the high voltage going to kill you? ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7691800&&#post7691800)
Green or pink blobs that come and go ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=531494&page=53&pp=30)
HDTV bit depth & standards (Nitewatchman) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7750251&&#post7750251)
Discussion of how Sony TVs scale the various video inputs (different forum) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7771984&&#post7771984)
Discussion of what the MID1-MID3 groups do ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7769977&&#post7769977)
RWetmore’s “discovery” about setting RDRV~BCUT very high & discussion ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7777559&&#post7777559)
Yet another discussion of white balance and the “need” for 6500K ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7802236&&#post7802236)
Restatement of Sony’s official centering-adjustment method ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7809189&&#post7809189) and here ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7809400&&#post7809400)
KenTech’s firm position on the 6500K controversy ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7812096&&#post7812096)
- - Useful test pattern for photographing grayscale on-screen: Pluge + ExtremeGray.pdf ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=59034)
Comment on eyeballing grayscale adjustment and associated rationales ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7885933&&#post7885933)
Test pattern: TRIED-AND-TRUE SELF-REFERENCING GRAYSCALE CALIBRATION ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7890860&&#post7890860)
- - GSLinearityTest2.zip ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=59526)
Nitewatchman: Long commentary on his grayscale experiments ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7896040&&#post7896040)
Article: MEASURING SCREEN BRIGHTNESS WITH A PHOTO LIGHT METER ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7896419&&#post7896419)
- - Referenced graph for above article in ZIP ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=59578) and PDF ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=59579) formats
Discussion of whether the _CUT settings really affect black level begins ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7901998&&#post7901998)
(OT) KenTech rant about the (measured) low screen brightness in theaters ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7902217&&#post7902217)
Article: EQUIVALENCE OF VARIOUS BLACK-LEVEL ADJUSTMENTS, OFFSETS, AND COLOR CUTOFFS ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7909260&&#post7909260)
Caution about adjusting height in the MID1-3 groups ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7909446&&#post7909446)
Color-cutoff discussion, a question ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7911130&&#post7911130) and its resolution ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7914473&&#post7914473)
KenTech’s experiments with RWetmore’s high _CUT settings ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7921552&&#post7921552) and here ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7925352&&#post7925352)
RWetmore’s satisfaction with his grayscale settings ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7929959&&#post7929959)
Using RGBS for isolating the red, green, and blue CRT guns ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7949944&&#post7949944)
The difference between the _DRV and _CUT settings and RYR~GYB ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7960708&&#post7960708)

Forum Pages 61-70, #1801-2100

An input-calibration method (Nitewatchman) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7991862&&#post7991862)
A question: What does 2170P-1/DCOL do (dynamic color)? ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8011625&&#post8011625) and a proposed answer ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8019120&&#post8019120).
Discussion of sidebar size, blanking, overscan ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8025344&&#post8025344)
Different experiences with color calibration, especially non-DVD ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7991862&&#post7991862)
A problem with vertical linearity and SD vs HD ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8056642&&#post8056642)
More on “dangerous” service-mode button combinations ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8060106&&#post8060106)
DVI, HDMI, black level, and bit depth ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8080306&&#post8080306)
Definitions of horizontal and vertical color convergence ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8173288&&#post8173288)
Using a Memory Stick for test patterns ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8200222&&#post8200222)
Success with color-decoder adjustment (bast525) ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8219327&&#post8219327)
What is VON and AKBO? They shut down my TV! ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8222723&&#post8222723) and a good comment from another forum here ( http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=15966&forum=34))

Here is a copy of the widely circulating Excel spreadsheet for a Sony 34XBR910. I've reformatted it as a PDF file so you don't need Excel, but the Excel version is also included.

02 - NAVIGATING SERVICE MODE

First download the attached Zipped file that should explain all: a page describing how to enter Service Mode, and two pictures of how it looks on my 36XS955 (gray background):

THEN: Download the official chart of codes from a previous message, otherwise the relationships among them is hopelessly confusing. Don't worry that it may not match your exact set model. (But it may be way off for earlier-model sets.) This chart seems to be fine for XS and HS-series, for example. Earlier XBRs are not represented.

SUMMARY: First power-off the TV, or start cold. Then press on the remote these four buttons within one second of each other: Display - 5 - Volume Up - Power. You should see a screen similar to "ServModeFirstView.jpg."

The code group-name (e.g. 2170P-4, MID5, etc.) is in the upper-left corner. Below that is the name of the actual code-name within that group. The code-name's number (in the group) is also shown to the right of the group-name. In the "TypDisplay" example attached, 2170P-3 is the group, and we're at item #7, SHF0.

To the right of the 7 is the code's *value.* This one is set to 0 (zero).

The other designations are for information only: "FULL" screen mode, "Video5" is the active input, and "480i" is the video-scan mode. I have never figured out what "WSL: <number>" means; its value changes while you fiddle with Service Mode, so it's readout of some sort, maybe the TV's "mood" at the moment, who knows.

The number-key pair 2-5 are up-down for stepping thru the groups to the first code in each group.

The pair 1-4 are up-down for the codes (spanning groups if you go past the group's end).

The pair 3-6 are up-down for setting the code's value. **Write down the initial value before changing anything.**

You can check out what different code-values do by tinkering -- no harm done. If you decide to back out after screwing things up, you have two choices: (1) press <zero> - Enter on the remote, which will re-enter the previous settings from memory; or (2) recycle Power to leave Service Mode, or press Power - Display - 5 - Volume Up - Power to start over in Service Mode. This is safe tinkering, but it's really best to log what you are doing.

If you make a change you want to "stick," press the Mute button (the word "WRITE" appears), then Enter within a few seconds. (WRITE changes to red, then back to SERVICE.) The changes have been written to internal memory. If you hit Mute by accident, it will revert shortly, so don't worry.

There are some aspects of this that can be confusing. If you change some settings, then change inputs or Picture Modes, you'll likely lose the changes -- but sometimes not, so don't assume anything. Some settings are always temporary, such as POP in the MID5 group. You can see the effect of different MID5 settings by changing POP, which then points to a different column in the MID5 table, maybe even change a few items. But if you step past the start or end of the MID5 codes, you lose the POP setting (it goes back to same as 2170P-3, MIDE) and the changes.

Recommended: If you've been tinkering for a while and you've determined a change you want to make in, say, a *few* nearby and related codes, first reset Service Mode with <zero> - Enter (as above). Now note the old values, make the changes, and Write them each separately. (By resetting to old values first, you avoid accidental changes while you were previously tinkering.)

CAUTION: AVOID keys 7 and 9, as they are part of a key-sequence that can reset all of the deflection or image-decoding settings back to a "factory-newborn" state. If you think you’ve hit any key by accident, STOP. In a few seconds it will revert back to SERVICE mode, as you’ll see at the right side of the screen. All dangerous key-sequences are combinations of *three* keys, by the way.

I have made *very substantial* improvements to the display of my XS955-series set, as have many others with theirs, and I take some delight in experimenting with these codes, trying to deduce what they do. I am posting what I discover as I can, and I hope other folks will, too, as several generous folks already have (thanks!).

[Revised 9-8-05.]

03 - COLOR CALIBRATION AND BLACK LEVEL

Here are some basics of global color-calibration settings, independent of any inputs or modes. This sets background black and the drive and cutoff values for the CRT's 3-color guns. It is basic for color-temperature calibration. My 36XS955 set was *very* far off!

First, clearing any confusion about the relationship among the three Color-Temp settings, Cool, Normal, and Warm: Normal is designed as the fundamental setting in the service mode, and Cool and Warm are settings that are *offset* from Normal, i.e. Cool and Warm are difference, not absolute, settings.

What makes sense to me: Set a “correct” color temperature of 6500K or “White Cloud” (my preference) or anything else for Normal. If it is truly neutral and without any green or pink off-color, then Warm and Cool offsets can be set very closely by adding or subtracting about equal amounts of red and yellow from the Normal setting. (Yellow is minus-blue.)

These are all in group 2170P-1. SBRT = black level, and RDRV, GDRV, and BDRV are red, green, and blue drive (gain) settings. RCUT, GCUT, and BCUT are the equivalent cutoff (black) settings. The six Warm and Cool offsets are set with RDOF thru BCOF, with WBSW as a big warm switch (leave at 0) and SBOF as a brightness offset (leave at 7). Use Pro mode to start, as other modes have some “dynamic contrast” effects going on.

***************
Here is how I proceeded with great results.

NORMAL COLOR. I don't have a color-temp measuring device; I can't justify its expense. But Nature provides a nearly-perfect source for comparison: mid-day white clouds illuminated from the front by sunlight (about 6100K), seen thru an open window or screen, NOT glass. You can twiddle more precisely later, but this is free from green or magenta contamination. Beware of foggy overcast (too cool-blue) or rainy-moist overcast (yellowish). Just the right overcast may do the trick, but you won't really know how cold/warm it is.

Do this in black-and-white: Set the Color slider all the way down to minimum with your remote. You are going for a *perfect* B/W picture. Set Color Temp to “Normal.” Make your room fairly dim - no artificial light! No green light reflecting into the windows from trees. Make sure you're in Pro mode and stay there.

In each case, **write down the original settings** just for safe-keeping. Log what you're doing!

Set your Brightness and Picture sliders with the remote to 31 (mid-scale). Use Digital Video Essentials or Avia DVD, and use a video-PLUGE pattern or “video black” on the disk as a decent black standard. Change the code 2170P-1 #5-SBRT to set video-black as the barest screen glow. For PLUGE, follow the DVD's instructions. Black levels for off-air/cable broadcasts are generally complete anarchy, but your local HDTV station or two may broadcast good black. This is only a starting point, but it's okay for now. Write the settings.

Go to code-group 2170P-1. Leave red settings alone. Look out the window at those clouds. Look back at the TV, and set #7-GDRV (green) and #8-BDRV (blue) until the whites are *white* to your eyes. Go between the outdoor view and the TV (big brightness difference, unfortunately) until you get it right. Cycle among your TV channels for different material to verify you're getting it right. Unless you have a color-perception problem, your eyes don't lie: if it looks white, it is white. The clouds “calibrate” your eyes for a short time.

Now sit in front of the TV, and adjust #10-GCUT (green) and #11-BCUT (blue) until the darkest areas *match* the color of those whites. There is some interaction here, so twiddle until you think you've got it: a really good B/W picture with very few off-color areas. Note that too-bright white areas may develop pinkish or greenish casts from heating of the CRTs aperture-grille wires - a drawback to the big tubes. Lower the Picture setting if that's the case. You should be able to get a B/W display that maintains consistent color from shadows thru highlights.

Make some further refinements while those clouds are still there! The GCUT and BCUT adjustments may have modified the accurate white. Go back and forth a couple of times. Write the settings.

THE OTHER COLOR SETTINGS are determined by the codes #12-WBSW through #19-BCOF. WBSW=1 adds a huge, unknown warm bias to the color, so I don't use it. Leave WBSW set to 0. The offsets are zero (no effect) when the codes are set to 31. Leave SBOF at its original setting.

Change the Color Temp menu-setting with the remote to Warm. Set RDOF to 33, GDOF to 31, and BDOF to 29. Set RCOF to 33, GDOF to 31, and BCOF to 29. Write the settings.

Now change Color Temp to Cool. Set RDOF to 29, GDOF to 31, and BDOF to 33. Change RCOF to 29, GCOF to 31, and BCOF to 33. Write the settings.

These offsets approximate a mild change in color temperature for Warm and Cool, not the useless super-warm and bluish settings my set came with. Sheesh! But use larger offsets if you wish. You can re-do all of this another day, as your wisdom increases, but this should be a huge improvement on the factory settings.

04 - ADJUSTING GAMMA

Having adjusted color temp and brightness, another service-code adjustment you can make on these late-model HS/XS/XBR TVs is the image gamma. Even if you don't want to change the gamma presets, it's good to know where they are.

Given a specific black-point and a specific white point, the gamma setting determines how bright the mid-tones are. Without getting into the math, the graph that relates the instantaneous red, green, and blue signals that control the brightness of the spot on the screen is not a straight line, but one with a deep, sunken curve. Gamma is the degree of this curvature: the higher the gamma, the more deeply the line is curved and the darker the mid-tones are.

Consequence of higher gamma = film-like look, brilliant highlights, natural 3-D appearance of contrast-lighted subjects (say, a 3-light setup on a news anchor), less shadow detail, more realism in general, sparkly things (specular highlights) that really sparkle.

Consequence of lower gamma = better shadow detail, but . . . pasty-faced people, lack of “sparkle,” feeling of “flatness” in the picture. In other words, the “TV look.” Outdoor scenes can be really flat. Valuable for lifting subject matter out of murky darkness in troublesome video, however.

Calibrated studio monitors use a gamma = 2.2, but program material varies all over the place. Traditionally TVs have been adjusted at the factory for bright mid-tones and clipped whites - great for store demo and vivid color - but viewers are now seeking more realism with their sophisticated program material. The Pro mode provides that with its maximum gamma.

The Pro picture-mode setting has the highest gamma out of the box, and for most good material I much prefer this to the lower values available in the other picture modes. But sometimes you may want something available for a whacked-out broadcast. I'll deal with customizing the picture modes in a separate article, but here is where the gamma settings are located.

2170P-4 #17 or 11, GAMM is the master setting, with a range of 0-3 for its four possible values. But it's a 2-level system, and GAMM simply points to a column in a table of presets where the *real* gamma values are set. This table is 4 rows and 4 columns. The rows are 2170P-4 #18-21 (or 12-15) GAMS, GAMR, GAMG, and GAMB. So, to be clear, GAMM = 1, for example, means only what the values of GAMS thru GAMS in the “1” column define it to mean. You get to define what each value of GAMM means.

A specific value of GAMM is saved for each of the four picture modes and, for each of those, different input/scan-mode combinations, such as RF, S-video, Compressed 480i (and others), DVI 480i (and others), memory stick, etc. Only the service-data chart will make this clear. Use it as a roadmap. Bottom line: over 50 values of GAMM can be saved for those many combinations (although only a few will likely apply to any one user).

GAMR, -G, and -B are settings for each of the primary colors (CRT guns) for red, green, and blue. Unless you are correcting a grayscale defect, one generally sets these all to the same value. 0 is the highest gamma, and the values of 1-15 increasingly lower it. Or you can think of the higher values as raising the mid-tone level. (More on grayscale corrections in another article.) If you want to tinker, write down the original values.

GAMS is still a bit of a mystery to me. I suspect it means “slope” for the gamma curve, and that setting GAMS above 0 tilts the curve up at the bright end, raising highlight values along with midtones. It is hard to deduce from the Digital-Video Essentials DVD (DVE) test patterns, as some of those trigger the brightness limiter in these TVs and fool your eye. I have tried looking at grayscale strip- and chip-patterns, and I'm not confident I understand it. For now I think it's an added slope to the curve, and I am leaving it at 0 for most purposes. I'd love to hear from others on this.

From the factory, GAMM = 0 points to the following: GAMS thru GAMB *all* set to zero, and it is assigned to the Pro setting for *all* inputs. It's the most conservative settings and yields what most folks will likely prefer for good video material.

LATE UPDATE: I have found a test pattern that allows one to estimate the effective gamma of a display device, such as a computer monitor or television. It indicates that the native gamma of Pro mode (GAMM = 0) is about 2.4. If you reconfigure one of the GAMM columns to values of 3 for each or GAMR, GAMG, and GAMB, you will have a gamma of close to 2.2, the industry standard for television monitors. So I have set Movie mode to be *exactly * the same as Pro mode, except I have set GAMM to 1, GAMS to 0, and the three colors to 3 each. I'll post how to use this test pattern later.

05 - CUSTOMIZING PICTURE MODES

The various picture-mode settings in late-model HS/XS/XBR Sony sets are not set in stone. They are simply pointers to a large group of presets that can be completely reconfigured in service mode. For example, I have no use for the factory's settings for Vivid and Standard - they're way too garish and have too many “enhancements” for my taste. So I have Left Pro pretty much alone, as a reference. Then I have commandeered Vivid for experimentation, and set up Standard and Movie to be equivalent to Pro, but with higher gamma, to resurrect murky video.

I proceeded by first making a particular picture mode identical to Pro, a intimidating process as you realize all of the input and scan modes that affect the values that are stored. But you can do it piecemeal as you need the settings for a given use. I first did it for SD broadcast, HD broadcast (1080i and 720p), and then my DVD player. That's only 4 for now. I'll do the S-video for the VCR another time.

To do this, you have to know where the settings are that are selected by a change in picture mode. Here is a definitive list I have checked and rechecked against the (official) charts I have. They are listed by group. Write down the original values before making any changes!

3D-COMB, 4 items. I haven't yet done any experimentation here, and I don't know what these do. I believe the comb-filter system extracts color information from SD broadcast and composite video.
- 14 VAPG, 15 VAPI. Defaults are 0 for Pro.
- 17 YPFT, 18 YPFG. Also per RF (tuner), CV/YC video input, and TwinView.

2170P-3, 17 items. Of *primary importance* to picture appearance. Also per input and video-scan mode.
- 0 thru 16, SYSM thru MIDE. #1 VMLV is not saved and is for temporary testing, of what I don't know yet.

2170P-3, 4 items. The velocity-modulation settings. Mine are now all at zero. Yecch!
- 17 thru 20, VM thru VML.

2170P-4, 6 items. [On some sets, but not XS955, for example. Now in permanent read-only memory as QM #14-19, not alterable. HS sets still list these.] Default settings for the user-menu sliders. Not very important, except as a convenience for those who can adjust them. Can be ignored, actually.
- #7 thru 12, UPIC thru UTMP.

2170P-4, 2 items. Important settings for gamma (+ preset table) and auto-black-level control (+ preset table). The Sony “Dynamic Picture Control” settings are here, in the presets for BKL.
- #17 or 11, GAMM. Pro = 0.
- #22 or 16, BLK. Pro = 0

3DNR, 15 items. This seems to be the video noise-reduction system, and there are 64 tweakable parameters, but I haven't gotten anywhere near tweaking these. I'm willing to trust the factory settings for now, as nothing seems to be wrong! But someday . . . On my 36XS955, only #34, 45, and 61 had different settings for the different picture modes.
- #34 YLV
- #39 YCR
- #41 YMG
- #43 YEL
- #44 YLM
- #45 CLV
- #48 GMG
- #49 CCR
- #50 CLM
- #57 thru 62, YNG thru YCO

I have gone thru and written down the values for all of these for Pro mode, for the several input/scan modes that matter to me. Then I have been transferring them to Vivid, Standard, and Movie mode as I can find the time.

Typical example #1: I use Vivid for testing. If I think I may want to change something that will affect the picture, I make the change to Vivid for that input/scan mode. Then, while watching real program material, I can easily flick between Pro and Vivid to see what the benefit or downside is. No harm done to Pro mode! Keeps me (relatively) sane. Don't forget that the user-menu settings are also saved with each picture mode, and for testing I had to make those the same for Vivid and Pro.

Typical example #2: I have set Movie mode to be exactly like Pro, except I have set GAMM = 1, and then GAMS = 0 and GAMR thru GAMB to 3. Nice for making murky program material much more enjoyable. Try different values for GAMR thru GAMB. “Lost” on ABC-HD is horribly dark, and Movie's raised gamma works perfectly to make it more enjoyable. Works with dark-exposed home video, too. (And I lately have discovered that GAM(R,G,B) settings of 3 may set the gamma to very near the television standard of 2.2.)

06 - AUTO BRIGHTNESS LIMITING

Unlike many small and older large analog TVs, the image on these late-model Sony CRT-type TVs is not completely under control of the video signal. There is significant "brightness" limiting, some optional. (And the “Dynamic Picture Control” - brightness and contrast control - promoted by Sony is another story entirely! Another article.)

Imagine the following: You are watching a car commercial full-screen on SD in Pro mode. The car is nicely situated in a medium-bright outdoor scene beside a river. Brilliant highlights sparkle from the water, and there is a 100%-white sun-glint from the windshield. Gorgeous! Then, cut to a solid-white screen with the text “2.9% financing” in the middle. You will note that, no matter the picture mode, the white screen will be nowhere nearly as bright as that sun-glint, even though it may also be 100%-white video. And it's not your eyes adjusting. It is especially apparent during kiddie cartoons, with their large areas of bright colors and white.

This is Picture or "contrast" limiting. I was first appalled by it, having come from a 27” older TV with no limiting of any kind. But I have come to believe is a bit kinder to the eyes, especially if you like to watch bright video in evening living-room lighting. Those 100%-white screens would be blinding. Note that this is not white-clipping; the relationships among all of the tonal values are preserved. It is a global setting, unaffected by any user controls.

As an engineer, I understand it may serve several purposes:

(1) It limits the CRT's beam-current. My 36XS955 can be made incredibly bright, and that is a large beam-current for the poor electron-emitting cathodes and the 31.5 kV high-voltage supply to support. So it likely protects the tube and maybe other electronics.

(2) All that energy flung all at once at the aperture-grille causes it to heat up and warp or sag, and you start to get pink or green patches in the white areas. You can probably see this occasionally; I certainly do. This is probably the outer bounds of this CRT technology, and limiting this effect keeps folks from calling Sony to complain. Another CRT-protection feature, too.

(3) For aesthetics. The response of the limiter is very prompt, and I got used to it very quickly, even though I'm very picky. I don't like being blinded, hate green/pink patches, and love the brilliant whites when they are small in area. I can live with it.

The setting for this instantaneous contrast-limiting is 2170P-4 #22 or 28/ABLT. The range is 0-15. You cannot turn it off (good thing!), and at its minumum of 0 the limiting is still significant but tolerable, and that's where I have left it. (As you increase the value above zero, the amount of contrast-limiting increases, making the picture even less bright.)

2170P-2 #4/YLMT is a hard white clip or limit, meaning that the picture appears normal except that no area is permitted to rise above a specified white level. The effect is minimized at YLMT = 3, and white limiting only becomes apparent as the value is reduced toward 0. My TV was alreadyset to 3.

[Revised 9-8-05.]

07 - DYNAMIC FOCUS

Any CRT-TV's electron beam is focused with something like an electrostatic or electromagnetic lens to a tiny spot in the center of the display area. If the spot is moved to another location on the screen, however, the distance between the beam emitter and the screen changes, and therefore so must the focus. On flat-screen TVs, the effect is at its worst: the corner is *much* farther away than the center.

What keeps the beam focused is the dynamic-focusing signal, which is derived from the TV's vertical and horizontal scanning currents. No need to know the details - just that you have control over the basic parameters, and you can adjust them to improve the overall focus of your screen, if need be.

On the late-model tube-type XS/HS/XBR TVs, the service codes governing this are found in group 2170D-4: #0 thru 8, excluding #6: QPAM thru QPDP, DF, and DQP. We have to assume that the internal focus adjustment on the high-voltage transformer is set okay. If the following procedures won't work, perhaps it is not correctly set. I won't recommend that anyone who doesn't have considerable savvy about CRT television or monitor electronics even try the internal adjustment. (But it is an easy screwdriver adjustment.)

WRITE DOWN the original settings in case you get screwed up and want to turn back the clock. These aren't risky adjustments and aren't very sensitive. Some seem to have hardly any effect at first. I used a test pattern from Digital Video Essentials to set mine, Title 13, Chapter 2: “SMPTE RP 133.” I set the DVD player to progressive to force a full-screen display on my 4:3 36XS955. Brightness, picture, etc. were set to middle values; sharpness fairly low (~20). PRO mode. The finer-detailed the test pattern is, the easier these settings are to adjust.

Later, I created a much finer test pattern in Photoshop and copied it to a memory stick, and it made the focusing much easier. But some of these TVs don't have the memory-stick feature, and one has to record it to a CD as a JPEG image and display that. I found my memory-stick native resolution (4:3 for 36XS955) is exactly 1440 X 1080 dpi. I believe it would be 1920 X 1080 dpi for the 16:9 TVs. I haven't yet determined the precise native resolution of jpeg-on-CD.

***********
OVERALL FOCUS is #3 QPDC. Adjust for best CENTER focus for vertical *and* horizontal detail. You can sometimes find one setting for best horizontal scan lines and another for vertical lines, but pick a compromise. A couple blocks right in the center of the DVE test pattern are perfect for this.

NOTE 1: Some folks may have read that you can improve everything by cranking QPDC up to a high value. Don't believe it! Works only for the extreme left & right edges at the expense of center focus. You really have to follow a hierarchical procedure, starting with basic focus, and moving outward.

NOTE 2: These adjustments not only affect the spot size but its shape. Usually you have to compromise to get best-looking focus. Don't be fooled by looking at just horizontal or vertical detail.

LEFT-RIGHT BALANCE is #8 DQP. Adjust until the test pattern's left and right text samples (or some left and right detail at equal distances from center) are equally focused, even if not perfect. Equally out-of-focus can be the correct setting.

VERTICAL COMPENSATION is #4 QPDV. Adjust for best top-center and bottom-center focus. Mine is cranked all the way up to 63 and just makes it. (#5 QPDP is related; may balance top to bottom. Doesn't seem to have much effect, and I have left it at the default of 6.)

HORIZONTAL COMPENSATION is #0 QPAM. Adjust for best focus at the far left and right middle-edges. You can readjust #8 DQP for best balance left-right, if needed.

VERTICAL+HORIZONTAL COMBINED COMPENSATION is #1 QPAV. Adjust for best focus in the corners in conjunction with #7 DF, which affects just the extreme corners. (#2 QPAP may be another balance setting; it seems to have little effect, and I have left it at the default of 6.)

*********
WRITE these changes to the memory with Mute-Enter. Write them into your log for future reference.

Now go to an HD source of any kind or force a 1080i 16:9 scan mode with 2170P-4 #20 or 26 IDSW. Re-enter the same six settings you made above (and wrote down) to the same codes, and WRITE. Now you've done HD mode, too. Return IDSW to 0.

Sony says you can mass-copy these settings from your initial settings (not HD) to HD mode by going to #6 CPY1, setting it from 0 to 1, and performing a WRITE. I did it manually, since there are only six values, and I’m not sure I understand this CPY feature.

Originally posted by KenTech
Here is a copy of the widely circulating Excel spreadsheet for a Sony 34XBR910. I've reformatted it as a PDF file so you don't need Excel, but the Excel version is also included. Many thanks for this consolidated highly worthwhile compendium of posts.

But I think this zip file attachment does not contain the PDF version of the Excel spreadsheet which is included, but rather contains the same PDF from your previous post (i.e. the HS420 Service Data Chart.pdf). I assume you were meaning to include your PDF version of the XLS file.

I respectfully disagree with you on the QPDC being out of focus in the middle of the screen.If anything it increases the focus on the middle screen and surrounding area a bit when cranked to max.

Using a 16:9 grid on DVE it was clearly noticeable improvement of picture focus when turned all the way to 63.

Originally posted by DSperber
Many thanks for this consolidated highly worthwhile compendium of posts.

But I think this zip file attachment does not contain the PDF version of the Excel spreadsheet which is included, but rather contains the same PDF from your previous post (i.e. the HS420 Service Data Chart.pdf). I assume you were meaning to include your PDF version of the XLS file.
Woops! So sorry! Here is what I meant to post, and I fixed the original.

Originally posted by CrocHunter
I respectfully disagree with you on the QPDC being out of focus in the middle of the screen.If anything it increases the focus on the middle screen and surrounding area a bit when cranked to max.

Using a 16:9 grid on DVE it was clearly noticeable improvement of picture focus when turned all the way to 63.

This is possible if the screen was out of focus overall or maybe that your internal focus adjustment is out, and cranking up QPDC works to fix it. QPDC affects the entire screen, but no other settings appear to affect the center. So you start with the center and work outwards. Maybe that would still result in your QPDC going up to 63, who knows. Your set may require it. I'm advocating a sensible method, not specific settings. Ideally you would start with the back off the set, and do the control on the HV transformer *first.* I wouldn't try this! What you did worked.

It would be interesting to see what happens if you start with QPDC first and then optimize the other settings after it.

Attached is the initial-settings chart from the HS420 service manual. You'll note that for the different tubes the settings vary widely.

The attached file is what the HS420 service manual has to say on dynamic-convergence twiddling. A big help for pointing to the right codes.

I do NOT recommend anyone get inside the set.

Attached are pages from the HS420 service manual for adjusting for certain picture distortions. Doesn't explain every relevant service code, but sure can help with most of it.

I have a new Sony XBR960.

I am not happy with the black level and a relatively small (but noticible) overscan issue.

So I decided to dive into the Service Menu. I have paged through many posts and printed out many charts. My objective for last night was pretty simple -
1) get into the service menu
2) page through all the settings
3) get out.

I completed 1) and 2) with no problem. I thought the easiest way to do 3) would be to simply power off - so I did.

Then I tried to power back on. To my horror - I just ended up with a black screen after powering back on. I retried powering up and down - same thing - the little red power light would flash red for 10 seconds - but I would end up with a black screen (with no sound). All the other buttons on the the remote didn't do anything (e.g. channel, voulume, video)

Here is what fixed it - unplugging the TV and plugging it back in. After I did that the TV started normally.

Can someone help me understand what made this happen. I would like to tweak the service menu - but last night was a pretty big scare. I feel like I need to understand this issue before I try it again.

I am working with a Sony XBR 960. Here are (what I suspect) are very basic questions.

1) My service menu looks different than the menu enumerated in the Excel spreadsheet that is an attachment earlier in this thread. My service menu looks like it does not have as many items. Also - many of the defaults are different. Is this to be expected?

2) In general - I can follow/match the pattern of categories and items laid out in the Excel spreadsheet. But I can't figure out how the different picture modes (e.g. Pro, Vivid, etc) are reflected. For example - I understand that RYR (in 2170P-4) has a different value for each picture mode - but I don't really see how that is reflected in the menu - I only see one value. I am clearly missing something.

3) I am particularly interested in the SBRT setting. I have had a really issue with the black level - shadows are way to deep. Can someone please help me understand - intuitively - what this setting does. How is it different than simply jacking up the brightness setting in the standard menu.

4) Am I risking my warranty by messing with the SM?

Thanks in advance for any help here. This is a great thread.

Originally posted by rholt

Then I tried to power back on. To my horror - I just ended up with a black screen after powering back on. I retried powering up and down - same thing - the little red power light would flash red for 10 seconds - but I would end up with a black screen (with no sound). All the other buttons on the the remote didn't do anything (e.g. channel, voulume, video)

Here is what fixed it - unplugging the TV and plugging it back in. After I did that the TV started normally.
Yep. You and a few other folks, including myself. It seems to be a bug (rare). It happened to me after an afternoon of looking at old vacation tapes and no service-mode activity at all. I panicked -- and then unplugged and replugged the set, and all was well.

I'm not sure how common it is, but others have posted about it. Don't let it scare you away from service-mode work.

That said, I have to say I don't completely understand the relationship between settings written and not written, and the unplugging of the set. In my case, I have made all changes a very few at a time, and written them with Mute-Enter. No intentional, written setting has ever disappeared by unplugging the set. So I guess if you WRITE the change, it survives all.

Then I got involved with the AUDIO section of the codes, and found that there was one code that, if changed from 3 to anything lower, got "stuck" below 3, giving me an undesirable result. (It was TRCV, BACV, or MDCV.) Took a while to figure out that this, too, was cured by unplugging the set. But it's the first example I had seen of a (non-written) setting-change that survived the power-off button. There may be others. I guess the lesson is that, if you have been tinkering with various setting changes and want to guarantee that nothing unwritten has "stuck," unplug the set for a few seconds after power-off.

If you make changes to code settings that are mode-dependent, they will likely revert to previous settings when you change modes, especially true of picture modes. And if you are in the MID5 codes and have used the temporary POP setting to point ot a column in the table so you can experiment, and then you step past the beginning or end of the MID5 category, the settings will revert to previous. Basic rule: If you want to make a permanent change, make it only to one or a few related settings, then WRITE it. Otherwise, with a little remote slight-of-hand, you may lose it. And unplugging the set for a few seconds completely eliminates any "residue" from previous experimentation.

Originally posted by rholt
I am working with a Sony XBR 960. Here are (what I suspect) are very basic questions. <snip>

1) I can't comment. My 36XS955 is missing a few items in the HS420 chart (the menu-slider defaults, no biggie) and some of the audio settings have different code-names. But I have no personal knowledge of the correspondence of that XBR910 list to the newer 960. I'll bet the HS420 chart will be of more value.

2) Download the HS420 chart, by all means! This will make it clear because the chart has *columns* for the different modes in many places. Don't fret that it isn't for your set exactly -- these sets have most all of these codes in common. (E.g. you have picture-in-picture or twinview, and I don't; so the codes that affect the so-called "sub-puctures" don't apply to me.) I have a memory stick slot, so that mode works for me. But the relevant codes won't apply to a set without that feature.

3) SBRT is the *critical* brightness setup. Think of it as the fundamental brightness pedestal upon which all of the other settings are built. And SBRT + Brightness slider + (a few other minor brightness tweaks) = visible black level. Further, the above pedestal is the base for the R, G, and B thresholds. So RCUT, GCUT, and BCUT are then set relative to the above pedestal.

I would (1) write down the original SBRT setting, and (2) set mode to Pro and Brightness slider to 31 (midpoint). Then, using a PLUGE or blackscale pattern on a test DVD or really good program material from a digital broadcast (fade to black works okay for now), (3) adjust SBRT until you have a satisfactory black level. Write the settings. This will get you in the ballpark until you can really tweak the color.

NOTE: Color/black settings in 2170P-1 are *global,* so SBRT is set once for all modes. But the Brightness slider setting is saved with each mode change. If you do it in Pro mode, you won't encounter any of the "dynamic" contrast or variable-black-level effects visible in the other modes.

4) Unless you have broken an explicit seal or caused damage for which you are now claiming warranty repair, the law doesn't allow manufacturers to deny warranty for any old reason! The laws were changed some years ago because of this abuse by manufacturers. But if you reset the service mode to factory-newborn settings, you would have some explaining to do! Simply entering service mode incurs no risk, and small adjustments that don't cause repair-worthy harm can't be significant. If your high-voltage transformer blows out, Sony can't deny warranty because they think you changed SBRT in service mode or modified picture modes to suit yourself. They have to show a connection. I refuse to be paranoid, but I am very disciplined and cautious about how I proceed!

KenTech -

First - thanks for these very helpful responses.

Second - I am still fuzzy on one issue.

How does one make picture mode specific Service Menu adjustments for SM settings that are picture mode specific. I am thinking about those color settings in the 2170P-4 series.

Is it the case that it depends on which picture mode you are in when you enter the SM. Is you are in the Vivid picture model when you enter the SM - then the modifications to RYR and RYB (for example) will only hold for the Vivid picture mode.

What happens if you change picture model while in the SM?

Thanks

Originally posted by rholt
How does one make picture mode specific Service Menu adjustments for SM settings that are picture mode specific. I am thinking about those color settings in the 2170P-4 series.

Is it the case that it depends on which picture mode you are in when you enter the SM. Is you are in the Vivid picture model when you enter the SM - then the modifications to RYR and RYB (for example) will only hold for the Vivid picture mode.

What happens if you change picture model while in the SM?
You are free to change picture modes, scan modes, etc. *while* you are in service mode. The changes you *write* while in a given mode are what apply to that mode only, if they are mode-specific. And you can deduce that from the service-data chart (not the list). So, as you can see, almost all of 2170P-3 codes are picture *and* scan-mode specific. That's about four dozen separate settings that can be saved for each of codes 0-16 (excluding 1), for example.

If you make mode-specific changes without writing, then change modes, you will almost certainly lose the changes. This applies to HD reception, for example: you are in one picture mode and are watching PBS (1080i) and make a code change in 2170P-3. Then you change channels to ABC (720p). Your settings will be gone, since you are now in a different column in the chart -- a different scan mode! You've got to save those changes before you change any modes.

The color settings 2170P-1 #5-19 are global, and I have found no exceptions.

The color-matrix parameters RYR thru GYB in 2170P-4 are global. So for all the color-matrix parameters (the ones you are interested in), one setting works for all analog video inputs. (I earlier had thought that the Memory Stick settings were separate, but I think I was mistaken.)

BTW, I've confirmed to my satisfaction that the Video Essentials disk has an accurate color-bar chart, 75% of each of the six pure colors surrounded by 75% gray. Their method for setting RYR thru GYB is perfect! Use 2170P-2 to select which color guns are firing on the CRT instead of the filters. My set, of course, came with a huge red push. Now those four codes (in order) that were 8-9-9-6 are now 13-15-6-4 on my second go-around. The first try I got 13-15-5-4, and others have reported those settings, too. Big improvement! You could do a lot worse than simply trying those settings.

Ken,
Have you made any changes to your sections (01 -07) since you posted on Agoraquest? I haven't tweaked my 34XS955 yet, still waiting for some burn in time, but I had saved those earlier posts for reference notes. Big thanks for sharing your findings to you and others. - CP

I agree setting GYR and GYB lower and RYR and RYB high rssults in a much better color accuracy on the DVE test chart.

Originally posted by CPetty
Ken,
Have you made any changes to your sections (01 -07) since you posted on Agoraquest?
I re-read those articles and made minor wording changes in my copy before posting here; I don't think there was anything really substantive. And a thorough spellcheck turned up a few embarrassments!

You're welcome!

08 - SOME USEFUL TEST PATTERNS

Following are sets of test images that are extremely useful in adjusting the displays of both 4:3 and 16:9 sets. They are designed for MEMORY STICK use only, or for display from a computer. (Untested. I could use some feedback on this. Is this resolution okay for computer-to-TV display?)

Why memory stick? Because it is one good way to take nearly complete control over the pixels on-screen, important for test images. The native resolution for memory-stick images is 1080px high by 1440px wide for 4:3 sets, 1920px wide for 16:9 sets. The pixels are square. A same-resolution image is displayed *exactly.*

So if you should create a dynamite custom test image on your computer at exactly 1080h X 1440w or 1920w, you can save it at highest quality as a jpeg image, and put it into the DCIM folder on your memory stick. You can then view it on the TV without any resampling by the TV, in a mode called HD FULL. Perfect!

Unzip the files attached to the following messages, yielding the separate jpeg images. Using an appropriate card reader/writer, copy them from your computer to the DCIM folder on the memory stick. (Create this folder at root level if it's not yet there.) You may also use subfolders inside DCIM to categorize your images. Then write Sony a nasty note after you discover how needlessly convoluted it is to navigate subfolders in the MS-display mode. Sheesh!

Some of these are useful images even if resampled from jpeg-on-CD on a DVD player (inherently 480i). See individual descriptive messages. I wonder how many other ways there are to get custom test images to display accurately. A slideshow on DVD maybe? Suggestions?

**************
Convergence & Geometry Test Patterns. Attached to this message are some convergence and geometry test images that should help in assessing what's going on with your particular TV's display. Remember that the crosshatch patterns will look a lot worse than actual program material! The white-on-90% black are best for convergence. Black crosshatch on light background will help with geometry and focus. All patterns are based on 2-pixel line widths and 2 X 2-pixel dots.

Attached and following are really good focus test patterns using 1-pixel scribbles against light and dark backgrounds. The values are approx 20% and 80% brightness, not black and white, so you can easily see edge-enhancement aberrations and ringing. The two images are posted separately because of the file-size limitations here.

(See previous message.)

Attached is an image that was a bear to make, but it is valuable in assessing how your TV handles horizontal and vertical detail. How the pattern darkens around the center white circle varies with amount of sharpening, and the MID5 & 2170P-3 settings. I'll also try to make a similar image with true light and dark sectors, not constant-width spokes. That will be tougher! The corner patterns are not very important, as this really isn't a “focus” test image but more of an sharpness-enhancement display. I didn't do a 16:9 version.

Attached is an image that shows the effect of adjusting the color-sharpness parameters in the 2170P-3 codes and in the MID5 table. Hardly visible in normal program material, color-sharpening and boundary effects are clearly visible in the color boundaries in this chart between the most-opposite colors, such as green-magenta. My settings have been tuned for clear boundaries with minimum bright-line aberrations and ringing. (I'll try to write something about the color parameters another time.)

This excellent chart was lifted from a Photoshop document I found online about ten years ago. It will show you your effective display gamma at a glance. It MUST be displayed at 1080px vertical in Pro mode, since it relies on alternating groups of exact scan lines for its accuracy and NO vertical sharpness enhancement. It can be adapted for different vertical resolution by *trimming* the image to another dimension, NOT by rescaling it. Memory stick works fine.

The principle is this: A pattern of alternating black and white equal scan-line groups has an average brightness of exactly 50% of full-white, inherently, no matter the gamma. The lines are horizontal so phosphor-grid and image-processing factors are eliminated. At a gamma of 1.00, a 50% solid-gray block appears to be the same brightness. (Blurring your eyes helps.) But at a gamma of, say, 2.20, that gray block would appear much darker than 50%.

But one can create a gray block that is lighter by the exact degree that will match the 50% surroundings. Its adjusted brightness can be calculated as <original brightness> raised to the 1/<gamma> power, or 0.50 to the 1 / 2.2 power, which is 0.73. So a gray block of 73% brightness embedded within a background of alternating black and white horizontal lines will appear to disappear if you blur your eyes while examining it *only* at a gamma of 2.2. In digital imaging, where black is 0 and white is 255, that square should have a value of 186.

So this chart is made up of a bunch of gray blocks of different brightness set against a black/white-line background, and corresponding gamma figures are indicated below. As you view the chart (not too close), one block will appear as the one that most blends into the background, and the corresponding gamma can be read from the red numbers below.

By this chart, my 36XS955 has a maximum gamma (all settings at zero) of 2.4+ - quite high. Makes a lot of insipid TV look much better. But the standard is 2.2, and I designated the GAMM = 1 column in the table for that. Each of GAMR thru GAMB are set to 3, and that seems to give a perfect display gamma of 2.2. Your outcome may differ, of course.

09 - GETTING GOOD GRAYSCALE

[9-9-05 Note: I no longer use the following "trick" for fudgling grayscale, i.e. setting one of the gamma settings higher than the others. I have reconsidered the whole matter, and I have gotten nearly-perfect grayscale on my 36XS955 by using excellent gray-step patterns from both the AVIA and DVE DVDs. Comparing with the same pattern displayed on a small computer monitor that has been calibrated to 6500K was a big help but probably not necessary. This is best read as documentation of my learning process. See additional notes in brackets.]

[I believe the following is still true.] I believe that the only way to great TV color is by first adjusting for great grayscale. Why? Because if your midtones are, say, cyanish compared to white and dark gray, that tint will attenuate reds everywhere in the midtone areas. Blue skies will have a touch of green. Skin tones will be yellowish — not attractive! Color information is added on top of luminance (grayscale) information, and so grayscale reproduction has to be *right* as a fundamental base for building the color image. Setting the Color user-menu slider all the way to the left removes all color, so it's easy to see where you stand. You can just tune random broadcast material and check it out. Your eyes are a very good judge of this. Using a test DVD helps but isn’t really necessary for judging this. Aesthetically speaking, errors of the yellowish-greenish type seem most offensive to me; blue or magenta less so.

When I calibrated my 36XS955 for perfect whites (color temp) and neutral dark grays, I found that my midtones were yellowish! White was already correct (the right combo of RDRV, GDRV, and BDRV), and so I thought I could fudge the cutoff settings (RCUT, GCUT, and BCUT) to get neutral midtones. Nope! When I did that, *some* midtones were okay, but now the dark grays were much too blue. [Not any more. Used a different method to get superb results.]

I had been through this before with computer monitors. The problem is that the inherent “gamma” or electrical response-curve of the CRT is slightly different for the blue electron gun compared to red and green. If the midtones are yellowish, the blue signal channel needs its gamma adjusted downward, pushing the midpoint of the curve upward. [Theoretically true, but may not actually be a determining factor on my TV.]

[The "trick" follows, no longer used.] Well, we can do this in service mode. The adjustment is a bit coarse, but it worked for me. Originally I had set GAMM = 0 and then GAMR, -G, and -B each to 0 for maximum gamma. I had done the same for GAMM = 1 and had set the individual colors to 3. But I now needed to correct the blue. So I tried raising GAMB to 1 where it had been 0, and to 4 where it had been 3, and wrote all data.

Now the grayscale was near perfect! A little twiddling of BCUT, and it now appeared dead-on for normal program material. I looked carefully at the darkest grays and nearly-blacks. Maybe there was a trace of coloration there, but it was totally insignificant compared to the previous yellow-contamination of the midtones. Problem solved.

So, to summarize, I adjusted all settings for the GAMM = 0 thru 3 presets to show GAMB = 1 notch higher than the other colors. This corrected my annoying yellowish midtones in grayscale program material.

[Major reconsideration. Added notes 9-9-05.]

10 - "PRESETS" AND RELATED SERVICE CODES

Understanding the following is really important to working in service mode: Some codes do not have effects of their own but rather point to a *group* of real parameter-codes that are set elsewhere. For example, GAMM = 1 means whatever the settings for GAMS, GAMR, GAMB, and GAMR define for it. The GAMM settings of 0 thru 3 are presets, represented by four columns in the service-data table for GAMS-GAMB, and these settings dictate each value of GAMM to mean whatever you want it to mean. Likewise, the user-menu choices for Warm and Cool color-temp variations are determined by the values in two columns for codes 2170P-1 #14-22 (WBSW-DCOL). This is hard to discern from the Excel-based service-code listing, and having an appropriate service-data chart is essential.

Here are some preset groups that are likely to be most important to tweaking color and image quality:

(1) User menu: Color Temp > Warm/Cool. Set by the two columns of 2170P-1 #14-22 (WBSW-DCOL). “Neutral” color temp is set by the fundamental white-point settings of 2170P-1 8-10 (RDRV-BDRV). Warm and Cool are *offsets* from Neutral, and 31 = no offset. See article #03 for more.

(2) 2170P-3 #16, MIDE points to a column in the immense MID5 table, which has 18 unique codes (rows) and 64 columns. MID5 #0, POP is a temporary pointer to any particular column in this table, so you can make changes without schlepping back and forth between 2170P-3 and MID5. Example: If you wanted to make changes in the settings for MIDE = 21, you can go to the MID5 #0, POP, and set it to 21. Then you are in column 21, and you can step thru the codes, make changes, and write them. Now any time you set MIDE in the 2170P-3 tables to 21, those settings you just made will take effect. (Of course, more than one column in the 2170P-3 tables can have MIDE = 21, and it will be the *same* 21.)

(3) User menu: Advanced Video > Program > Color Axis > Default/Monitor Set by two columns in the table for 2170P-4, #13-16 or 7-10, RYR-GYB. For the XS955 table, the columns are labeled “Normal” and “Special Axis” for Default and Monitor, respectively. After calibrating the Default color axis with Digital Video Essentials (RYR-GYB = 13-15-6-4), I found that the memory stick color was off using that setting: a real green push was still a problem. So I set the memory-stick axis to Monitor in the user menu, and recalibrated it in service mode (this time making changes in the “Special Axis” column. You can make changes in the user menu and watch the values change in RYR-GYB.) I used a memory-stick/jpeg custom test pattern that duplicates the DVE pattern. The settings ended up at RYR-GYB = 12-15-14-9. Perfect. Bottom line: You have *two* sets of color-axis adjustments you can apply as you wish with the Default/Monitor setting in the user menu. How you set them up is up to you.

(4) 2170P-4 #11 or 17, GAMM is a table of 17 columns for every possible video/input mode and 4 rows for each picture mode. However, the values of 0-3 simply point to a column in a 4 X 4 table for the four codes following GAMM: GAMS, GAMR, GAMG, and GAMB. (GAMS is a brightness offset and has no effect at GAMS = 7.) To set GAMM = 0 for maximum gamma, for example, set GAMM to 0, then immediately set GAMS = 7, and each of the GAMR, -G, and -B codes to 0. (But see Article #09 for how to fudge the gamma settings to get a perfect grayscale.)

(5) 2170P-4 #22 or 16, BLK controls the “Dynamic Image” feature advertised by Sony, an automatic modification of contrast and the brightness-response curve that depends on what is being displayed at any moment. It is described by a table just like GAMM, above, whose values of 0-3 point to one of four columns for several related codes following BLK: in 2170P-4, DCTR, APED, DSBO, ABLM, DPSQ; and in 2103-1, #24 and 25, ATPD and DCTR. [BLK is a little tough to figure out, but the factory's BLK = 0 seems to kill all dynamic effects. More another time. This feature is not to my taste.]

Hi Ken,

I think that a detailed description for adjusting geometry would be a welcome addition to this thread. I have always had a problem on where to start and how the adjustments affect each other. I did see your earlier attachment from the SM BTW.

thanks,

Joe

Originally posted by jcardani
I think that a detailed description for adjusting geometry would be a welcome addition to this thread.
Well, um, [squirms visibly] aside from reducing overscan a bit for 4:3 material and reducing height slightly for 480i and HD compressed mode with 2170D-1 #13, ASPT, I actually haven't done much for myself. I did some basic recentering, using the SM instructions (attached), but very little was amiss on my set -- compared, say, to the poor folks who have sets that were accidentally reset to factory-newborn status.

I have been writing this stuff as I do it, making sure I walk the talk. I'm really not quite ready to write up anything comprehensive yet for geometry, as other matters have been of greater importance to me -- such as focus, gamma, correct image brightness and color, and image-detail rendition. They contributed the most to my immediate enjoyment of this excelent set.

As I find the time, I will likely get to geometry. But my set has a few static-convergence defects that a Tech will have to resolve first. I'll be calling someone to come out this week. I want *him* to be the first to open the back of the set.

While I'm at it . . . for the 30-, 34-, and 36XS955 owners among us, see attached. Now, in living color!

And for the 34XBR960 . . .

Ken,
I haven't made service menu adjustments with a TV for several years, but when I did make them with my Sony 32XBR2, I had to enter the service menu, change whatever values I was interested in changing, exit the service menu and then power up the TV normally to see what effect the changes that I had made had had. This tedious procedure had to be repeated as often as was needed until the parameter being adjusted was satisfactory. However, your posts imply that with current or recent model Sony TVs one can enter the service menu and simultaneously display the parameter that one wants to adjust. Is this inference correct?
Thanks very much.
Ron

Originally posted by rekalil
However, your posts imply that with current or recent model Sony TVs one can enter the service menu and simultaneously display the parameter that one wants to adjust. Is this inference correct?
Yes, you can watch any video input, change channels, switch to memory stick -- all while in service mode, with the SM green character-based readout superimposed over the picture. When you make a change, you see the effect on the picture immediately. You just can't use the number buttons on the remote for channel hopping, as they are used for controlling service mode, as are a few other buttons, too. You can exit SM without saving any changes by simply recycling power. In case any of the settings "stick" anyway (as one Audio setting seems to), pulling the power plug fixes that.

11 - IMPROVING THE AUDIO

I was very pleased to find that my 36XS955 has a decent subwoofer and not much of a “plastic-cabinet” sound. Nice! But of course I've been mucking around in service mode on just about everything else, and there *is* a group of codes for “AUDIO” just waiting to be tweaked. So . . .

On my set I found that voice had an annoying nasal quality, and high-quality piano sounded honky in the same frequency region. Mid-range boost maybe? And the “Treble” slider in the user menu boosted the annoyance factor lots faster than the extreme highs. So what's up with that?

The 21 codes for audio are in the group called “AUDIO.” ASYS switches all effects on and off, and only ASYS = 1 (on) sounds anywhere near decent.

I found that #1-3, TRCV, BACV, and MDCV all are controlled by the menu sliders for Bass and Treble, but that they affect treble, bass, and midrange, respectively. If all are set to 3, the tone-control sliders do nothing. It's hard to imagine how this works with the midrange! Seems that settings lower than 3 vary the “width” or “impact” of the frequency range affected by the sliders. I set the tone sliders to their midpoint (31) to start, and set the above three codes to 2 for moderate effect. Sony's original settings for these made no logical sense to me.

I discovered that codes #6, 8, and 10, MIDL (midtones), SBAS (lows), and STRE (highs), sort of act like a 3-band equalizer, affecting the tonal balance of the set when the tone controls are set in the middle. My set came with them set at 8 - 7 - 6, respectively. Changing those to 6 - 7 - 9 removed the honkiness and added transparency to the highs.

I noted that the subwoofer-supplied bass was really “tubby.” Thump - thump on pop music, but no real warmth to voices or other instruments. Warmth in the 300Hz region adds pleasantly to the illusion of “size” of the presentation (best metaphor I can think of). So I diddled with #7, LOFQ, and found that increasing it to 5 from 0 added back something that was missing. I haven't figured out exactly what #4 and 5, SVHI and SVLO, do, and so for now I have left them each at 4, the original settings. And I haven't a clue about #12, 19, and 20 (PSEF, TRS1, TRS2). So they remain untouched.

I had hoped that the SteadySound feature might miraculously control the nasty-loud commercial breaks. Mine, however, had almost no effect! Then I discovered that, when SteadySound is enabled, #13, AGCL, controls its effect, with AGCL=15 minimum (no effect) ranging to 0 (very substantial compression, obnoxious). My set had 9 as a default - no wonder it had little effect. I reduced it to 4 for now, and am pleased with the results. I generally don't like any compression, as the broadcasters lay it on quite heavily anyway. But how about music for accompanying a memory-stick slideshow? Or afternoon football? I would try settings of 2-4 and then use it with discretion.

Finally there are what appear to be dynamic bass-boost settings with big-time control over the subwoofer. #14, BBE, turns all of it on and off, and off sucks! So BBE will stay at 1. I found it interesting (as opposed to enlightening) to tinker with the four main settings, #15-18, BBEP thru BB2L. But it's really hard to deduce what they do and which of them might be responding dynamically to volume level - like the “bass-impact” switch on some CD players. So, after playing around a bit, I have left them alone. The other changes detailed above made such a substantial improvement overall, that I am content for now.

So, to summarize:
•-- Get one of the service-data charts in front of you. Write down your original settings. <<
•-- Actual noted original settings (#0 thru 13) for my 36XS955 = 1-2-0-2-4-3-8-0-7-0-6-7-5-9.
•-- For the 34XBR960, Sony's data chart lists 0-2-0-2-4-4-10-0-8-<blank>-10-<blank>-5-9. (The first value of 0 has to be a misprint!)
•-- My improved settings = 1-2-2-2-4-4-6-5-7-0-9-7-5-4. #14 thru 20 weren't changed. I sometimes boost the bass a bit with the Bass slider in the user menu.

Ken, thanks for all the good info. I adjusted my gamma today on my 36XS955 which made a big improvement in black detail. I can actually see the fabric now on items such as black suits which wasn't possible before. I'm going to definatley make some geometry adjustments also as the left side of the picture sorta 'leans" to the right.

A question for you though. Is there a way to adjust the brightness of the picture while recieving a HD station via the atsc tuner and not effect the NTSC tuner brightness? Currently there is a big difference in the two and I have to adjust the brightness everytime I flip back and forth.
Thanks,
Rick

Originally posted by RickE
Ken, thanks for all the good info. . . Is there a way to adjust the brightness of the picture while recieving a HD station via the atsc tuner and not effect the NTSC tuner brightness? Currently there is a big difference in the two and I have to adjust the brightness everytime I flip back and forth.
You're very welcome, Rick.

You'll find the settings you are looking for in 2170P-3 #13-15, UBOF, UCOF, and UHOF. These are brightness (black level), color, and hue offsets on top of the global settings. Each increment here is equivalent to two clicks or so in the user menu.

Good strategy is to find your input source that has the *highest* predictable black level, and assign it a 0 for UBOF. (Touch up 2170P-1 #7 SBRT to recalibrate global black level, if needed.) For me it was my DVD player. Then a little switching around among sources and channels will let you find suitable settings for everything else. Write the change after each input or mode switch or you'll lose it. My favorite VCR has a slight pink shift to skin tones, so I was able to fix that with UHOF without screwing up other inputs.

Note that there are a maximum of about 60-something values that can be stored for *each* of the three offsets: one for each picture mode (4) times one for each input video mode (16 for my 36XS955). That's each of the four input resolutions (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) for each of V5/V6 together (component), all S-video, HDMI, and ATSC (tuner, SD and HD), plus individual settings for "RF," memory stick, and TwinView. Whew! Means you can tweak to your heart's content. Note that V5 and V6 component inputs are *not* separate, but the video modes are. Same with all S-video. Two 480i sources connected to V5 and V6 will have to share the same offset; but if one of them is *not* 480i (a set-top HD converter, say) , then they can be different.

SD broadcasts are completely inconsistent in black level, so the best you can do is choose a UBOF setting that causes you the least hassle when changing channels. HD broadcasts seem much more consistent, and your external devices (DVD, etc) may be easy to set & forget. I generally want the "base" setting for Brightness, Color, and Hue to be slider-midpoint = 31. Then I can adjust from there on the fly.

[Some channels (e.g. MTV, FoodTV) broadcast way too much color, and I have to tweak Color down to 25 or so. Is there no respect for standards? Don't they monitor the signal with a vectorscope or something?]

Very soon I will post an article of all of the 2170P-3 settings -- a big project! These settings determine the "look" of the picture: all of the detail rendering, enhancement, and filtering. With a few adjustments, you can do much better than Sony's factory settings!

12 - OPTIMIZING IMAGE DECODING, "SHAPING," AND ENHANCEMENT

This has been the most difficult article to write, since it involves *subjective* judgments of image quality. So, up-front, my goals here were to try to get the images on my 36XS955 to *not* look like video but like realistic, high-quality film, at its best, where possible. Maybe even reality! The hardest part to get right is the reproduction of *texture*: human skin, clothing, rock and sand, distant trees, hair. Many image “enhancements” smear or attenuate this texture, but I am happy to claim that these particular Sony sets seem capable of reproducing it very well - providing it's not killed within the set by misguided filtering and over-the-top enhancements. What have helped me are (1) an extensive photography background, and (2) expectations in line with reality. TV is a crummy picture by most standards, but there's no reason one can't maximize its quality for what it is. And HD raises the stakes.

Video can have a “look,” and I have typically found it unattractive - overly bright, compressed luminance range; over-sharpening of all detail (historically called “aperture correction”; exaggerated color, especially food colors and reds; and *way* over-sharpening of high-contrast edges independent of other detail. Speaking optimistically, I have found that, even among SD channels, there is a great deal of first-rate NTSC video, whether local news, “Survivor” on CBS, or some documentary on the History or Food channel. I don't want the set tinkering excessively with good video. Just pass it to the screen, thanks, with suitable noise suppression and a little sharpness enhancement to compensate for losses in the long signal chain from camera thru editing to broadcast.

So I am striving for *transparency.* Some broadcast and VCR video is hopelessly bad, and so it will appear on-screen. It seems that attempts at manipulation just make it worse! So transparency works for me there, too, and I just deal with it.

There are too many technical details to write about in a forum message, so I have attached a PDF document converted from a Word document of the real article in its entirety. A detailed chart expresses succinctly what I have discovered about the very important 2170P-3 settings and the related MID5 chart, and I note a couple of newly-discovered (9-8-05) settings in 2103-1. (The charts' boundaries may print better than Adobe Reader will display.) In addition, please download one of the service-data charts available in this thread before attempting to make changes, as it makes plain the relationships among the picture and video modes and these settings. (Note: No discussion here about gamma, black level, color, geometry, convergence, etc. See other articles.)

That said, this continues to be a fascinating discovery process, and experiments can be conducted *safely* by (1) using one of the useless picture modes for playing around and (2) by laying claim to a couple of the columns in the MID5 table for your own purposes. If nothing else, I think just trying out the settings suggested in the table will really please some folks who are searching for this image perfection.

Feedback from readers is VERY WELCOME. Please! And let me know if there's any trouble with the PDF document.

[Small changes to message and major revisions to PDF document 9-8-05.]

Here are a couple of excellent memory-stick test patterns for image tweaking. Edge effects, oversharpening, image "ghosting," and smear are all revealed quite well. These are only 4:3, as there is no advantage to a special 16:9 version (heights are the same).

Here is an excellent memory-stick test pattern (not my invention) for focus adjustment. To remove the confusion of any misconvergence, it's recommended that you use 2170P-2 #1 RGBS = 2 to turn off all but the green gun when tweaking the 2170D-4 dynamic-focus settings. (You don't have to, but it helps.)

If the display is filled with the pattern, it won't compress into a file <512K to fit the limits for filesize here.

This is the 4:3 version. The following message has the 16:9 version.

Here is the 16:9 version of the above.

As a newbie and a dope, I am highly uneducated in the land of electronic tinkering. Therefore, I am seeking mainly info here or at least some easy-to-understand suggestions.

Problem #1 - A slight but noticeable upward bowing at the bottom only, in letterbox and NOT in 4:3
Problem #2 - While viewing black and white broadcasts (or DVD) left third of the screen has a slight bluish tint. Right third has a slight brownish tint. (In both cases, emphasis on slight, but unnerving to me) The center third seems fine.

I'd be grateful for any ideas that would eliminate the need to call a tech out.

Many thanks!

Talking about convergence, geometry, and things of that nature, several of you have told me that I can have a tech come out under warranty to use the magnets and all that other good stuff.

What would I ask for and how would I set it up, to get a tech to come out and do these sorts of things for me?

I'd just say the convergance is off, and it's really noticeable.

By the way Ken,

I have found a discovery with SYSM.It seems you were right in that 3 is the "OFF" setting.

Upon further investigation i have noticed that when i turned sharpness way down with SYSM set at 1 or 0 it's blurry, but if i change SYSM to 3 it cleans up the picture and makes it sharper.Even with no sharpness or up to max the sharpness level stayed the same without getting grainy or blurry if i turn it up or down.

I guess you mentioned about leaving the sharpness setting at 20% right, is this the proper level?Upon using the DVE sharpness pattern it was hard to adjust the sharpness level since i set SYSM to 3 it pretty much does'nt matter where i put it, it looks the same.

Problem #1 - A slight but noticeable upward bowing at the bottom only, in letterbox and NOT in 4:3
Problem #2 - While viewing black and white broadcasts (or DVD) left third of the screen has a slight bluish tint. Right third has a slight brownish tint. (In both cases, emphasis on slight, but unnerving to me) The center third seems fine.
(1) This is almost certainly correctable only with magnets, and Sony does not offer a single service-mode adjustment for it. Tilt, yes; bowing or curving, no. A magnet placed properly on the side of the CRT in the center of the botton will "repel" or "attract" the electron beam as it approaches this area, and the effect is to pull the scan lines outward or push them inward. Same with the corners and top. The sides can be corrected with correction signals added to the horizontal deflection, and that's what is available in the service code adjustments. But not top and bottom.

Since it's the same electron-beam that does both 4:3 and HD, I wonder if you are just not bothered by it on 4:3 because you don't have a perfect horizontal line staring you in the face al of the time, as you do at the bottom of the HD raster.

(2) Mine is very slightly this way, too, but I can easily ignore it. For now. According to the service manual, this is either a slight lateral misalignment of the deflection yoke (established with rubber wedges fixing the position of the yoke's front edge), or a slight adjustment of the main central purity magnets may be required.

All of these require opening the set and are best accomplished by a trained service person. If the set is still under warranty, this is the *only* way, and I would prompt the service organization sending out the tech to make sure it is someone who is savvy about placing magnets. (It's a very "organic" process, and requires common-sense skill, not following a recipe.) Tell them what you need done -- e.g. bottom-curvature geometry and yoke alignment. Make sure your convergence is okay; he can diddle that, too.

Personally, I *will* remove the back from my set and try a few adjustments myself -- I have a long history with this kind of thing that makes me fearless! But it ain't for the faint-of-heart or undisciplined.

I *wish* these adjustments were possible electronically, but the physics of it argue against that, to our inconvenience.

What would I ask for and how would I set it up, to get a tech to come out and do these sorts of things for me?
The thing to avoid is having some tech-bozo-in-training to mess with convergence on your set! I would ask around at high-end TV or home-theater specialty stores as to who does competent "magnet work" or who their favorite Sony service store is. Then call them, and grill them on whether they have a good "magnet guy." If they mumble or say, Oh yeah, all of our guys can do that," um, I would be a bit skeptical and try elsewhere.

I haven't gone throught this yet, but the specialty shop that sold me my TV pointed me to a service shop whose manager has already convinced me that he has two of his several service people who are especially good with magnets (a credible reply). I just haven't gotten the nerve yet, and my service warranty runs out in about 10 days.

The thing to avoid is having some tech-bozo-in-training to mess with convergence on your set! I would ask around at high-end TV or home-theater specialty stores as to who does competent "magnet work" or who their favorite Sony service store is. Then call them, and grill them on whether they have a good "magnet guy." If they mumble or say, Oh yeah, all of our guys can do that," um, I would be a bit skeptical and try elsewhere.

I haven't gone throught this yet, but the specialty shop that sold me my TV pointed me to a service shop whose manager has already convinced me that he has two of his several service people who are especially good with magnets (a credible reply). I just haven't gotten the nerve yet, and my service warranty runs out in about 10 days.

Since I purchased my TV through Crutchfield, I'd have to ask them about it. See who they would refer me to.

Since I purchased my TV through Crutchfield, I'd have to ask them about it. See who they would refer me to.
Unless they operate physically in your city, they wouldn't have a clue! No, I would visit a few stores in person. It's not much of an imposition to humbly ask for a referral to a service center they like. "I really don't know who else to ask," you could say. Just be really cool about it.

Even though I already have a referral, I think I will make a small tour of a few stores and see what they recommend, too. Maybe mention the service shop for which I have that referral to see if they agree.

Regarding grayscale calibration:

I know every tube is different, but they have to be within some sort of spec.

Assuming nearly the same default values were present, could it be assumed that although not perfect, merely copying the sbrt, cuts and drives from your set would provide good grayscale, much better than stock? It cant possible require more than fine tuning from the point youve reached, allowing for the difference between sets. Unless Im way off the mark, and every set is WAY different?

Unless they operate physically in your city, they wouldn't have a clue!

Crutchfield explained to me that they would contact whoever the Sony service people would be in, or near my area.

It's a crapshoot how reliable THEY would be. Crutchfield wouldn't be the problem.

I may just save up and have an ISF man come out in a few months and just do it right.

could it be assumed that although not perfect, merely copying the sbrt, cuts and drives from your set would provide good grayscale, much better than stock?
That might work really well. It's just that no one has given me any feedback yet, and I have set up only one set.

The exact voltages at which each tube produces a minimum glow on the tube face (darkest gray) has quite a bit to do with physical parameters in the three electron guns, and I have to believe that tiny variations in spacing of each emitter/cathode to grid #1 would alter the curve and cutoff. In my set, the blue gun has a slightly different response curve, and so I have to fudge it by knocking GAMB up one notch. I don't know if that's typical.

That said, I believe starting with my settings would put you in the ballpark of the brightness range I have come to appreciate, and tweaking of the settings for perfect color tracking and black cutoff might be minor.

Please post what your experience is because others may wish to try this without all the experimenting I find peversely delightful!

For convenience, here's a summary of my settings:

(1) (Brightness slider target average = 31.) 2170P-1 #7 SBRT = 31.
2170P-3 #13 UBOF for various inputs varies from 0 to 4. Choose 0 for the peripheral or input that gives the highest black level, and adjust others to match. Mine was a Toshiba DVD player. SBRT can be fudged if all of the UBOF settings are too high or low.

(2) 2170P-1 #8-13 RDRV-BCUT = 42-28-22-31-18-14 for a Normal color temp about 6400K. See my article #03 under "Normal Color" for my "white cloud" suggestion.

(3) For 2170P-1 #12-19: Warm = 0-7-34-31-28-34-31-28; Cool = 0-7-28-31-34-28-31-34.

(4) Suggestion: For a display gamma = 2.2 (TV standard), set 2170P-4 GAMR-GAMB to 3 for the picture mode of your choice; Set GAMS = 0. I have set Movie = Pro for all settings except gamma, and I use Movie for the "3" settings. For Pro, GAMR-GAMB = 0 = display gamma of about 2.45. My set requires fudging GAMB one higher for accurate blue tracking in grayscale. YMMV.

If there is black contamination with a color on an input relative to the others (my 1080i HD/tuner was yellow-green!), it has to be compensated with 2170P-1 #3 and 4, CBOF and CROF. For me 44-47 became 58-54 for 1080i broadcast OTA. Only blue and red are adjustable.

(1) This is almost certainly correctable only with magnets, and Sony does not offer a single service-mode adjustment for it. Tilt, yes; bowing or curving, no. A magnet placed properly on the side of the CRT in the center of the botton will "repel" or "attract" the electron beam as it approaches this area, and the effect is to pull the scan lines outward or push them inward. Same with the corners and top. The sides can be corrected with correction signals added to the horizontal deflection, and that's what is available in the service code adjustments. But not top and bottom.

.....

Howcome computer monitors have electronic adjustments for geometry and tvs don't?

Also I have an old Sony PVM2030 that I used as a Videogame monitor as it has RGB input. The pincushion was off (bowed out) and the overscan was to much cutting off much of the image. I had to take off the back to fix it. All I did was adjust some pots back there to adj the pincushion, picture size, position. Can you do this with the newer Sony HDTVs?

Yes i believe so in the service menu of the set.

All I did was adjust some pots back there to adj the pincushion, picture size, position. Can you do this with the newer Sony HDTVs?
Nope. No pots, except a couple on the high-voltage transformer for focus, G2 voltage, and one other, perhaps astigmatism. Everything else that you mentioned is adjusted in software/memory by setting numbers in a special service mode. You don't need to take the back off the set.

This seems to be the manufacturing trend. There are about 540 or so to this line of sets we are discussing here, and some of those have 1, others 60+ possible "memorized" settings, depending on type of signal, which input, etc. How could that ever be accomplised with pots?

Ken, i put back SYSM to 1,since i have noticed the image was not as clear at 3.There was no ghosting at 0 or 1 since i have disabled VSM completely and the 4 you have mentioned starting with VM.

It seems that if you leave SYSM to 3 the sharpness slider has NO effect what so ever.If you put it at 0 or max it looks the same.

It seems that in order for sharpness to work, SYSM has to be set to either 1 or 0.(which are identical by the way).

So i would just leave SYSM alone like a lot of other people have mentioned.

just wanted to let you know of the discovery,You can try it yourself if you want.

(1) It seems that if you leave SYSM to 3 the sharpness slider has NO effect what so ever.If you put it at 0 or max it looks the same.

(2) It seems that in order for sharpness to work, SYSM has to be set to either 1 or 0.(which are identical by the way).

(3) So i would just leave SYSM alone like a lot of other people have mentioned.

(4) just wanted to let you know of the discovery,You can try it yourself if you want.
(1) Sorry, but this is incorrect. See my article, which you apparently won't read for some reason. SYSM 0-2 is mapped to Sharpness, true, but the effect is very coarse. If Sharpness-control effect seems to disappear when SYSM = 3, you are feeding a signal which is much too coarse itself to show it. 2170P-3 #6-8 most certainly *are* also affected by the Sharpness slider, and a sufficiently sharp test pattern shows it readily (only a few of which can be found on DVE, for example).

There's not much you can do with this TV to improve really mushy SD material. (Travel Channel comes to mind.) The TV's enhancements are designed to work on small detail, except for SYSM = 1, and that level of detail simply doesn't exist in lots of broadcast video. But it *does* exist in some of it, and that's what I try to optimize.

(2) Wrong. Sorry. But 0 and 1 do seem identical.

(3) I disagree. If you *like* it, leave it alone (at 1 or 2), and this might be what *you* should do. But its effects distort image-texture quality for fine images from DVD or HD sources. That's why Sony has it initially set to 3 = OFF for all HD sources. My DVD images are harmed by the coarseness of SYSM, and I recommend *not* using it on those inputs for 480i and 480p. That said, my goal has been to *inform* people how to see these effects, and then to make up their own minds about what effects they want. This puts the control into the users' hands, not strictly Sony's. That, obviously, includes you. You get to pick your poison! My choice is to leave SYSM at 3, as it does not serve any of my purposes.

(4) Dude! Been there! Read the articles. I've spent *hours* researching this *before* writing the articles. (By the way, I'll stop saying that if you are dyslexic or something that prevents you from reading them. Is it that you don't have Adobe Reader?)

KenTech, after reading your article the other day I tried several of the items you mentioned with various to little success. I tend to agree with Crochunter (somewhat) on the SYSM setting. I have left mine at 1 for everything except HD content which stayed at 3.
Changing the SYSM setting (with 480p from DVE & AVIA) & (1080i from ESPNHD frozen frame) caused the picture to shift horizontally with minor sharpness changes. SYSM @ 2 is a little coarse and 1 has the best compromise with DVD.
HD 1080i still looks best with a setting of 3 for all modes.
I wonder if since you may have used the memory stick for your images that you may see these differences ??
I still don't understand why the picture moves (left - right) with SYSM setting ???
Also, like Croc I'm keeping VM off with default pro settings on all pic modes (VM=0, VMH=12, VMM=8 & VML=4).
Lastly, I will try your MIDE setting on unused MID5/POP value of 60/61.

Todd

I took delivery of my 960 today. Everything's great! Thanks to threads like these, I'm coming out of the great pretty strong in terms of PQ and adjustments.

I have not touched the service menu yet.

I DO have a rather noticeabe issue, though, and I'm hoping I can be baby walked through this before possibly getting a tech in here.

I don't know if you'd call this a geometry issue, a convergeance issue, or both, but here goes: Upper right and lower right of the screen, especially noticeable with 2:35:1 aspect ratio or anyting else that draws a straight line horizontally across the screen...the upper starts curve dowards and the lower right start to curve upwards. It's easily noticeable.

Is this magenet time, or can I get into the service menu, bump a setting or two real quick, and be on my way? Thanks!

Is this magenet time, or can I get into the service menu, bump a setting or two real quick, and be on my way? Thanks!
Sorry to say, I think that requires magnets or an adjustment of the deflection yoke. Look at an all-gray or all-white screen (not too bright). Is there a slightly cool patch to the left of center and a warm patch to the right of center, or the reverse (not at the edge)? That would argue further for the deflection-yoke misalignment -- a very small adjustment.

I am suspicious that the order in which things are adjusted on the final factory-checkout line determines a lot. In stores, I see consistent convergence and curving problems with the upper-right corners on various XS and XBR sets from this generation. The yoke and tube are inherently symmetrical; so why upper (and lower) right? I had a dark patch in the upper-left corner, but that was fixed easily with the service-mode LANDING parameter called "UL." I finally did best by setting all corner adjustments to the middle (127) and starting over, going around to all four corners until everything balanced. If they are allowed only one pass at this, they may over compensate on an earlier adjustment and be stuck when it comes to the last one. Just speculating . . .

The curving of horizontal lines has no fix in service mode that I can see, and I've really looked. I have a bit of this problem, too, and I am having a good "magnet guy" come out next Wed to try his magic. I'll report the results. (My service-labor warranty is about to run out!)

I am looking to get an HDTV 30" or so pretty soon. I was wondering.

Are all of these Sony sets pretty much off with regards to geometry?
I can see that this is going to be a bit of a pain to buy a monitor and have to have a tech fix it right away.

I have looked at sets in the stores and I notice that the geo is off on most sets in the corners too.

The convergence can be dodgy many times too. Is this adjustable with the SM?

Also can the overscan be adjusted? It seems like 720P material is severely cut off. Can this be adjusted so that the whole image is visible?

Thanks.

(1) after reading your article the other day I tried several of the items you mentioned with various to little success. I tend to agree with Crochunter (somewhat) on the SYSM setting. I have left mine at 1 for everything except HD content which stayed at 3.
(2) Changing the SYSM setting (with 480p from DVE & AVIA) & (1080i from ESPNHD frozen frame) caused the picture to shift horizontally with minor sharpness changes. SYSM @ 2 is a little coarse and 1 has the best compromise with DVD.
HD 1080i still looks best with a setting of 3 for all modes.
(2a) I wonder if since you may have used the memory stick for your images that you may see these differences ??
(3) I still don't understand why the picture moves (left - right) with SYSM setting ???
Also, like Croc I'm keeping VM off with default pro settings on all pic modes (VM=0, VMH=12, VMM=8 & VML=4).
(4) Lastly, I will try your MIDE setting on unused MID5/POP value of 60/61.
(1) The whole point is to know what these settings do, and then to adjust them to suit yourself. Note that SYSM = 1 has a "minimum" effect with Sharpness set to about 10-15, not at the far left (0). As you go left of that, there is a softening effect. I simply don't like it, but you may prefer what it does to SD material. I think it's way too coarse for good DVDs. My taste.

(2-3) The edge effects applied by SYSM = 1 or 2 are derived from the luminance signal, but then they would be too late to act as an unsharp mask, where you want to sharpen both sides of a sudden transition in brightness. That would require seeing into the future! I believe the original luminance is *delayed* a bit, and the non-delayed luminance derivative is added to it. The effect is the the whole picture has to slide a little bit later in time -- i.e. to the right.

(2a) It's just that the memory stick is very clean and predictable, where anything fed from a DVD player is subject to all sorts of manipulation before it leaves the player. All you have to do is read comparative reviews of DVD players to see that their video bandwidth varies all over creation!

(4) Good! Here is where you can be quite creative with picture enhancements, and I'll be interested to hear what you arrive at. I imagine some of those parameters have effects visible on instruments, but I'm at a loss to see the effects, even with a tack-sharp test pattern.

It seems to me there are four classes of picture quality, and that one has to devise settings for each: 1080 and 720 HD, DVD-source ED (480I X 720 digital), ordinary high-quality SD, and yucky SD. You might even add a little extra edge boost to 720, since it is resampled and 1080 is not; this appears to be what Sony does in its MID5 table. Of course, much of 1080i broadcast is really DVD-quality, but you're stuck coming up with one MID5 column for both. That's where the sharpness control comes in -- down for real HD, up for ho-hum "HD."

I don't think there are any compensations in this set that are "just right" for blurry SD or tired VCR tapes. Every adjustment offered seems to assume a fairly high-quality picture in the first place. I don't agonize over it. I make a choice of Sharpness settiing and get on with it.

No, actually i don't have Adobe Acrobat redaer which is why i can't view your pics:(

All is well now in the PQ department...As long as i don't see any ghosting or double lines and ringing then i'm fine with the settings i have.

I am looking to get an HDTV 30" or so pretty soon. I was wondering.

Are all of these Sony sets pretty much off with regards to geometry?
I can see that this is going to be a bit of a pain to buy a monitor and have to have a tech fix it right away.

I have looked at sets in the stores and I notice that the geo is off on most sets in the corners too.

The convergence can be dodgy many times too. Is this adjustable with the SM?

Also can the overscan be adjusted? It seems like 720P material is severely cut off. Can this be adjusted so that the whole image is visible?

Thanks.

No CRT TV will have perfect geometry, but some come out of the factory looking worse than others. I've been able to get the geometry on my Sony 30HS420 looking really good with some simple adjustments in the SM. The main ones that made the difference for my TV were VPIN, PIN, UCP, and LCP. I started out making small adjustments until everything starting looking good. I've almost eliminated the upper and lower horizontal bowing, and the slight vertical bowing near the edges is barely noticeable. Thanks go out to KenTech for providing the service manual pages for specific geometry settings. This helped me a lot.

Convergence can be dodgy. I've had a tech out to my house to see if the errors on my TV can be fixed. The errors are mostly in the corners and on the upper left side of the screen. It took nearly three weeks for Sony to get back to him to let him know that the errors are probably "within spec," but to go ahead and try to fix it. So, my TV is currently in a repair shop getting worked on. AFAIK, there's no way to adjust convergence in the SM. The settings that are there don't do anything on the HS420 series.

Overscan can be adjusted in the SM.

Sorry to say, I think that requires magnets or an adjustment of the deflection yoke. Look at an all-gray or all-white screen (not too bright). Is there a slightly cool patch to the left of center and a warm patch to the right of center, or the reverse (not at the edge)? That would argue further for the deflection-yoke misalignment -- a very small adjustment.

I am suspicious that the order in which things are adjusted on the final factory-checkout line determines a lot. In stores, I see consistent convergence and curving problems with the upper-right corners on various XS and XBR sets from this generation. The yoke and tube are inherently symmetrical; so why upper (and lower) right? I had a dark patch in the upper-left corner, but that was fixed easily with the service-mode LANDING parameter called "UL." I finally did best by setting all corner adjustments to the middle (127) and starting over, going around to all four corners until everything balanced. If they are allowed only one pass at this, they may over compensate on an earlier adjustment and be stuck when it comes to the last one. Just speculating . . .

The curving of horizontal lines has no fix in service mode that I can see, and I've really looked. I have a bit of this problem, too, and I am having a good "magnet guy" come out next Wed to try his magic. I'll report the results. (My service-labor warranty is about to run out!)


Drat.

This means two things. Here's what Crutchfield told me to do about this:

To have a Sony service tech come out and check those convergence issues you will need to contact Sony directly. They have a special number setup to handle their in home service issues. To setup someone to come out to your home please call the Sony at your service TV line at 800-282-2848. They will be able to give you better information and setup the in home service for you.

It's either this or I save up and just go ISF and finish it.

It's not the end of the world, but even my sister walked in the room and saw it right away, and she's hardly an "anal videophile."

I went to the ISF's official site and made contact with the closest local ISF calibrator, who's qualified across the boards.

He quoted me about $280 per input and said he'd even do the geometry and convergeance for free "as needed." Obviously, it's going to be needed for me. ;)

Sounds like a good deal to me. In light of this, should I just wait a couple of months to save up the money and have him come out and finish it all off, or take my chances now with Sony to at least handle the geometry and convergeance issues.

Something else I've noticed: A very faint horizontal line that goes across the entire screen. It's very thin and straight. It's about 1/4 down from the top of the screen.
It exists at all times, all applications.

Edit: I called that Sony number and got to one of their reps and described to him what I had and threw out the key terms like "geometry" and "convergeance."

His response to me was to type something in a database and read back to me off of their computer that what I was seeing was a "perfectly normal" concave effect on a flat screen TV and that I wouldn't notice it after a time. He then concluded with: "If you're not having an actual problem with the picture or the sound, there is nothing wrong with your TV."

So, yeah...I'll be having an ISF guy deal with this in a few months.

That line Holds the aperature grill in place.It's common on sony sets, it's not a problem with the sets, all sony sets have this line.Actually if you look closer there should be 2 lines one at the top and one at the bottom.

Once your set is calibrated you won't notice the lines at all,because the calibration will hide them.

Sorry to hear about your convergance and geometry problems:(

I guess i got lucky then with my sony at the time i purchased it,Great geometry out of the box, and only minor convergance problems which are off only at the bottom of the screen on the left and right, not in the middle.

That line Holds the aperature grill in place.It's common on sony sets, it's not a problem with the sets, all sony sets have this line.Actually if you look closer there should be 2 lines one at the top and one at the bottom.

I guessed that might be it. Certainly you can't see those lines once you're past about 3-4 feet or so.




Sorry to hear about your convergance and geometry problems:(

Not earth shatteringly bad. Just a refinement that I'll have to deal with in a couple of months.



I guess i got lucky then with my sony at the time i purchased it,Great geometry out of the box, and only minor convergance problems which are off only at the bottom of the screen on the left and right, not in the middle.

Thankfully, I have nothing wrong in the middle and actual TV and movie watching is just fine. The actual picture is not suffering from any distoriton.

This is just a nip and tuck issue. ;)

AFAIK, there's no way to adjust convergence in the SM. The settings that are there don't do anything on the HS420 series.
According to the service manual specifically for the HS420 series, Section 4.3.5, there are several *dynamic* convergence adjustments in SM, and they show pictures of the problems that are solved by tweaking them (page 24).

That means only horizontal misalignment of the colors; vertical has to be handled by magnets. The SM codes are all in D-CONV, #0-12, YBWU-CADJ.

I haven't had any motivation yet to adjust any of these. You mean to say you can change these values, and they have *no* effect?

This means two things. Here's what Crutchfield told me to do about this: It's either this or I save up and just go ISF and finish it.
I'm disappointed to hear this. I think you should be able to get static convergence corrected under warranty. To this end I simply contacted a reputable Sony-authorized service center, told him what I wanted, mentioning 1/4" of misconvergence in the upper-right of the HD raster and a slight putiry problem, and he made an appointment for next Wed morning. I was not deflected to contacting Sony (who has every interest in trying to get out of this service).

I understand that $280 per input (yikes!) is okay with some, but jeez! many of these adjustments can be made by the owner to great perfection, and there is the issue of the near-religious orthodoxy of having a true "ISF" calibration. I have determined to my satisfaction that some of the ISF standards are not required to such precision (6500K for example; 6350K would be fine) and the tendency to calibrate a "brightness" level (meaning Picture) is complete nonsense. There is no correct "brightness" of white; what is required dependes on taste, the environment, and the particular TV's tendency to bloom at high brightnesses. These limits are easy to spot.

Education is everything and is obviously my overwhelming bias. But if a TV owner does not want to learn any of this stuff or develop the modicum of skill required to do it according to published help, spending money seems the only other way.

$280 per input? Some of the most critical adjustments are common to *all* inputs, and only a couple of tweaks are required to bring any particular input into line.

Sorry, but I can't hide my skepticism!

I'd say there're not functional.

I'm disappointed to hear this. I think you should be able to get static convergence corrected under warranty.

Me, too. Unfortuneately, I ran into the kind of person that I DREAD running into when you call any of these "official" phone lines.

The guy wrote me off with a script and was borderline condescending, like I was crazy or know what the hell I was talking about.

I knew within two minutes of that conversation that I was wasting my time and it was going nowhere.



To this end I simply contacted a reputable Sony-authorized service center, told him what I wanted, mentioning 1/4" of misconvergence in the upper-right of the HD raster and a slight putiry problem, and he made an appointment for next Wed morning. I was not deflected to contacting Sony (who has every interest in trying to get out of this service).


Ok. How do I do that? How do I get past this call center and track down the nearest reputable Sony service center near me?



I understand that $280 per input (yikes!) is okay with some,

Heh, I didn't say it was "ok", I just said it was reasonable sounding enough FOR AN ISF JOB and what I know about that. No, I'm not real thrilled at the prospect, but I'm willing to take some steps, within reason, to achieve as close to perfection as possible.

Tonight, I watched some 16:9 material that had no letterbox bars whatsoever. The picture itself shows NO SIGNS of the "convergeance" issue that I see with a straight line, like the letterbox bars, for example. Thank God for that!


but jeez! many of these adjustments can be made by the owner to great perfection,

How?! You told me earlier that there's nothing in the service menu that can fix geometry or convergeance.

For color and other things like that...I may make a trek into the service menu at a later date, with your material here as guide.

There's really not much point in me doing that right now until the geometry and convergeance issues are addressed.


and there is the issue of the near-religious orthodoxy of having a true "ISF" calibration.

I've never done it before and I've never heard of it before until about a year ago, when I start posting here at AVS.

To my "unprofessional eyes", calibrating out of Pro and Monitor has given me a hell of a nice picture already. :)


I have determined to my satisfaction that some of the ISF standards are not required to such precision (6500K for example; 6350K would be fine) and the tendency to calibrate a "brightness" level (meaning Picture) is complete nonsense. There is no correct "brightness" of white; what is required dependes on taste, the environment, and the particular TV's tendency to bloom at high brightnesses. These limits are easy to spot.

This is where we come into uncharted territory for me.



Education is everything and is obviously my overwhelming bias. But if a TV owner does not want to learn any of this stuff or develop the modicum of skill required to do it according to published help, spending money seems the only other way.

What did you have in mind?



$280 per input? Some of the most critical adjustments are common to *all* inputs, and only a couple of tweaks are required to bring any particular input into line.

Sorry, but I can't hide my skepticism!

Me, too.

Truth be told, I'm really well satisifed right now. If I could get the minor geometry/convergeance issue easily taken care of...I'm really not sure how much better, within reason, my PQ can really get on this TV.

(1) Ok. How do I do that? How do I get past this call center and track down the nearest reputable Sony service center near me?
(2) How?! You told me earlier that there's nothing in the service menu that can fix geometry or convergeance.
(3) For color and other things like that...I may make a trek into the service menu at a later date, with your material here as guide.
(4) There's really not much point in me doing that right now until the geometry and convergeance issues are addressed.
(5) This is where we come into uncharted territory for me.
(6) What did you have in mind?
(7) Truth be told, I'm really well satisifed right now. If I could get the minor geometry/convergeance issue easily taken care of...I'm really not sure how much better, within reason, my PQ can really get on this TV.
(1) I haven't a clue where you live, but Sony-authorized service is usually identified that way in the Yellow Pages. And then there's that possible referral from a Sony-TV dealer who looks like they might care about you.
(2) & (4) No, sorry, I wouldn't have said that. There are adjustments in service mode for most geometry corrections (all distortions of vertical lines, aspect-ratio, and overscan) and for dynamic convergence. If you have a problem with *horizontal* lines bowing as they approach the right picture edge, for example, or with vertical displacement of color (color fringing of horizontal lines), yes, *that* is magnet-ville. But that shouldn't stop you from calibrating even more important aspects of your TV, such as black level, color accuracy, white temperature, focus, gamma -- all those things that the ISF guy will slave over for $$. None requires perfection in convergence or geometry before meaningful adjustment can take place. For example, any problems I have with horizintal lines, purity (colored patches), and static convergence *are still there.*
(3) Please! It's easier than you think at present, and I certainly believe it's really the key to enjoyment.
(5) Well, it was for me, too. The "white-cloud" standard for white is *excellent* and is further proven in 2 months' use. (Article #03.)
(6) I was referring to ISF calibration. I wish there was another, less snobbish, choice. It may be that, in your city, there is a trained tech who can do what is needed, ISF or not, and charge a fair price. Thing is, then you remain dependent on somebody else's expertise. If you learn how to do some of these things for yourself, you can tinker for free forever after! I've tried to convey what I have learned, but the terse language of this engineer may not suit some folks, and I don't know what else I can do except document what worked for me, basing my claims on long-term engineering and digital-imaging expertise as a base. (And a certain fearlessness in these matters.)
(7) This is good! I really would go to some trouble to find a service center who will talk to you. Speak to its manager, as I did, and act a bit like you know what you need. Don't let anyone treat you like an idiot!

The curving of horizontal lines has no fix in service mode that I can see, and I've really looked. I have a bit of this problem, too, and I am having a good "magnet guy" come out next Wed to try his magic. I'll report the results. (My service-labor warranty is about to run out!)

I had an unexpected result in this area. The convergence of my upper left corner was off. And the horizontal lines kind of drooped down as it approached the end of the screen. It was quite visible when the info box that displays what video source you are on came on the screen. No magnetic fields outside of the TV accounted for it.

Well, looking in the geometry fix, I didn't see anything in the guide that really described my problem, so I skipped that and went to fix something I could tackle, the convergence issue. For the first time, I pulled up your 16:9 matrix of dots (thank you!) and saw a few other minor changes I wanted to make here and there, so I went to town.

I adjusted everything under the convergence category, starting with the overall convergence of the screen, then going to one side of the screen, then the smaller areas. But when I was done, I was actually surprised, My convergence was much better in the upper left (not perfect, but close), but unexpectedly, my geometry was far better and the drooping was gone.

There seems to be some connection to geometry in the convergence settings, but darned if I know which combination did it. I adjusted too many things, and I didn't see the result until after I had saved the changes.

I adjusted everything under the convergence category, starting with the overall convergence of the screen, then going to one side of the screen, then the smaller areas. But when I was done, I was actually surprised, My convergence was much better in the upper left (not perfect, but close), but unexpectedly, my geometry was far better and the drooping was gone.

There seems to be some connection to geometry in the convergence settings, but darned if I know which combination did it. I adjusted too many things, and I didn't see the result until after I had saved the changes.
Well, *that* is interesting! Do you mean when you say "the overall convergence" that you followed the procedures for adjusting the hexapole and other magnets inside the cabinet? Or did you address only the settings in D-CONV in service mode?

I'm not surprised to hear that there is a connection between convergence and certain geometry parameters, since both are accomplished with magnets (including coils energized thru the adjustments in SM). When I previously diddled with computer monitors, I found purity (dark or off-color patches), convergence, and warping of the raster all could be affected by holding *one* magnet near the tube and variously aligning it. Everything I did involved compromise -- which was the "art" part of it.

Could you be a little more specific about what you did? And did *anything* you did affect color fringing of horizontal lines?

Yeah, I'm eager to see what jmccorm did as well.

Based on what I've read here and seen with my own eyes...I might not need the magnets.

But I really want to be baby walked and be absolutely sure on this, so I'm going to re-read this thread, download all relevant material in regards to the 960, have a pen a paper, watch this thread, and maybe have myself a very careful adventure this weekend.

Just to make sure you guys have the "right stuff" for this, here (again?) are the relevant service-manual pages. Sorry I had to split it to avoid the 512K file-size limit.

[Addendum: These pages apply to all the XS955 sets, too.]

Well, *that* is interesting! Do you mean when you say "the overall convergence" that you followed the procedures for adjusting the hexapole and other magnets inside the cabinet? Or did you address only the settings in D-CONV in service mode?

D-CONV only. I did not stop at #12 but I did the whole range of options (even though they weren't covered in the document), all the way up to #23 (SSLB). I did see that there seems to be some sort of relationship of opposites between the 0-12 and 13-23 ranges, but I didn't explore that. I just got lucky. There might be some key there.

And did *anything* you did affect color fringing of horizontal lines?[/QUOTE]

The color fringing of horizontal lines (color above and below the lines running left to right) improved significantly. Wasn't perfect, but better. Before, along with the drooping if the input source info box, the vertical misconvergence was obvious. Now, it is much more subtle.

I'm having problems reproducing the original problem, though, which is starting to make me wonder.

Did a little fooling around with dynamic convergence this afternoon (the D-CONV settings). My set wasn't way off, but I did improve things a bit. Here's a few things I learned:

(1) The service manual discusses using D-CONV #13 CPY2 to copy your 480i or memory-stick convergence settings to HD 1080i. Surprise! There is no "CPY2," and the settings are now common to *all* of the scan modes as far as I can tell. #13 is HVCA, range 0-63, and mine is at 63. I haven't yet deduced what it does.

(2) In D-CONV, the central convergence setting is #12, CADJ for "center adjust." I would do that one first using one of my fine-dot patterns. (See article #08.) The service manual shows what #0-11 do. 14-23 are the same as 2-11 and appear to be "sub-settings" in Sony's parlance, i.e. offsets. With a range of 0-63, 31 is treated as center = 0 offset, and all of mine are at 31, which is *not* what is shown in the service-data chart for my set. It appears therefore that the real setting for, say, RSAP = RSAP + SRSP; same for RUMB + SRUM, RLBW + SRLB, etc. The "S" settings are the "base" settings, and one tweaks 2-11 to fine-tune everything. I left all of the "S" settings alone. A note on the chart says they're "different for the 30XBR910." I guess I would concentrate only on #0-12.

(3) I revisited all of my LANDING settings from #0 thru 6. #6, TESW, turns off the corner compensation of #0-3, LT-RB, so you can choose settings for EWSP and ENSW that give a most-even color for the screen. Put up a white or gray full screen (my black crosshatch-on-gray will do), not too bright, stand back a ways, set TESW to 1, and set EWSP and ENSW for best evenness. Then turn TESW back to 0 and tweak LT-RB for best corners -- minimum color, minimum darkening. (Don't stare; move your eyes around.) I improved mine. Something a tech said to me reminded me that there *are* set-orientation adjustments, and EW and NS look like east-west and north-south to me. I ended up with different settings than I had before and a more-even screen.

(4) jmccorm: After I tweaked convergence and saved the settings, I screwed with the settings to see if vertical convergence was affected. No amount of radical twiddling of the D-CONV settings changed anything. Whatever *vertical* color misalignments I have were not affected. Maybe we are expecting too much! We'll see if the tech turns up his nose at it on Wed with "It's within Sony Specs.".

I have a XBR 960 and I am having a slight issue with 1080i sources. With both a 1080i signal coming from my computer, and a 1080i signal coming from a DVD player, I am getting quite a significant amount of flickering especially noticeable in DVD menus or around text. This happens both on component and the HDMI input. 720P sources come in very solidly. Is there a service menu setting I could try that would change the timing of 1080i inputs that might reduce the flickering?

Mike, welcome to the worst aspect of interlaced video (the "i" in 1080i and 480i).

Alternate lines of an interlaced display are present only every 1/30 sec, i.e. any one scan line is drawn at 30Hz, and would be a very visible flicker -- except that every adjacent line is drawn 1/60th second later, and so the eye nicely integrates this interlaced set of alternatineg 30Hz fields into nice 60Hz frames, and flicker isn't perceived, especially with normal program material generated by cameras. ("Hz" = cycles per second.) The glow-persistence of the CRT's screen phosphors helps, too, although it's what can cause the "white trails" that follow moving bright objects against dark backgrounds. (Solution: Don't watch TV in such a dark room!)

Now if this display is fed a computer-generated horizontal line, one whose top and botton edges are pixel-accurate in definition, those edges will flicker, since the scan line defining them is flickering on and off at a 30Hz rate. STB and DVD menus and computers likely are your most common sources for this kind of graphic. You'll notice the TV itself generates graphics, too, but it's slightly blurred (antialiased) so there is minimal flicker.

If you switch to a progressive display of the same material, *all* scan lines are drawn at a 60Hz rate, all together, and there's nothing onscreen that can cause flicker in the first place.

On these Sony sets, 720p is resampled up to 1080i, and the resampling includes some antialiasing (smoothing) and other tricks that neatly minimize any flicker. Sony does really good resampling, as DRC demonstrates for SD material.

Broadcast material in 1080i (last night's CSI/Miami on CBS, for example -- gorgeous!) contains almost nothing that can cause flicker. You can get as close to the screen as you wish to revel in the image, and nothing looks amiss or jittery. In this sense 1080i is as good as it gets, and I can't help but wonder if (yet nonexistent) 1080-progressive would be an improvement on this. Perhaps for motion artifacts; but broadcast HD falls apart during motion because of the compression (macro-blocking), and edge-motion artifacts should be the least of your complaints!

Maybe it will be 1080p HD-DVD that will make the difference.

There are no service-menu settings that can reduce this effect, since it's an inherent interaction between the program material and an interlaced display. All you can do is choose program material that doesn't flicker, learn to ignore it, or display computer graphics in 480p exclusively.

Well, I don't have time to get super in-depth in my tweaking just yet, but I was going to run through an AVIA disk. My question though is this:

Running the DVD on video 5 of my 34" XS, won't that only setup the component inputs? What about good old antenna and tweaking that? I know there is a ton of information ken has posted...but that's the problem. :) Any quick tips for AVIA tweaking is appreciated, thanks guys.

Running the DVD on video 5 of my 34" XS, won't that only setup the component inputs? What about good old antenna and tweaking that? I know there is a ton of information ken has posted...but that's the problem. :) Any quick tips for AVIA tweaking is appreciated, thanks guys.
I'm wondering about this myself.

A couple of weeks ago, I created in Photoshop the "perfect" color-calibration test screen (attached) for my MS slot, using the conventions of the Digital Video Essentials DVD: Blocks of the usual SMPTE colors at 75% brightness, surrounded by 75% gray. I had set up my V5 component input from the DVD player and DVE. I was surprised to learn that the memory-stick slot had slightly different rules! When I set up the four color-matrix parameters in 2170P-4, RYR thru GYB, I got different settings than I had gotten with the DVE DVD thru V5.

The two color-matrix settings in the user menu, "Default" and "Monitor," can be set up any way you wish. Those names are arbitrarily chosen by Sony. So I set up "Default" for the DVE calibration of V5 and "Monitor" for the MS test pattern.

Now, question is: Does either one apply perfectly to broadcast, especially ATSC-HD? The block diagram for these XS and XBR sets show clearly that the MS slot feeds thru the same pathway ("YUV") used by the ATSC tuner's HD output, component inputs, and HDMI receiver module, completely bypassing DSC.

So why the settings differences? Now that I have tried them both, it sems the differences are negligible and may be attributed to the DVD player's being slightly different from the MS input. (MS is a *very* direct input, a perfect way to insert test images into the TV for alignment.) I will place my bet that the MS pattern correctly calibrates color for the HD tuner, since color encoding there is digital and doesn't involve the messy NTSC color-extraction process of SD broadcast.

So that leaves the S-Video inputs and SD tuner as the unknowns. I could connect the DVD player thru S-video and repeat calibration to see what changes, but I can't mimic a perfect SD signal without additional test equipment. I guess I won't agonize about broadcast SD, since there is such color and black-level anarchy there anyway. I'll just adjust in the user menu to suit myself. But I want to know that the DVD player and broadcast HD are reasonably accurate, and I've probabnly accomplished that.

Bottom line: You can agonize over getting the TV perfect, but the program material still varies all over the place, even on HD broadcast. So you eventually run into limited returns for the effort. Maybe big-release DVDs are the most consistent.

Hi KenTech and others -

Been following this thread, preparing to try and do some calibration on my KV34HS420 - same problems others speak of - dark HD via Comcast, poorly set blacks, terribly grainy display of analog channels out of the motorola box, etc.

But there are some assumptions that I feel I'm missing in terms of how to approach this:

1) Running AVIA from DVD obviously incorporates characteristics of both DVD and display set up - KenTech talked about this some in last post - I don't have a mem stick slot - so I'm guessing there's no way for me to calibrate for cable box input without including DVD in loop - is that right? No cable channel-based test targets or anything? No built in test patterns in Motorola cable STB? No way to feed a video input into the cable box? (It actually has video inputs, but manual says they are for future use and not enabled - I haven't actually tried to put anything into them though to see what happens).

2) Assuming I can use only the DVD to calibrate, what about the various adjustments on the DVD player ? Do I leave those at default and just adjust the tv? It seems logically like you would want to set up tv for a "generic" input, then further adjust the DVD settings to keep that input consistent with others - but I have no idea in practice how to do this, or in what order, or by what algorithm (I also was a scientist and EE in previous lives!).

Given the user settings, the serv menu tweaks, and the DVD's settings, what order would you go about adjusting things in to get not just the DVD input good, but also as many of the others, too? (So I use SD and HD cable, standard VHS, DVD).

3) In the various tweaks discussed in this thread, there are the MID5 settings that use that 64 column look up table - I'm not quite clear on how this interacts with the various input/picture mode combinations. Is it that for each combination (eg video 6, 480 p, Movie) for MIDE, the number in the appropriate column points to the column of settings in MID5 that are used for that set of 17 values (the MID5 parameters?). So MIDE is sort of an acronym that expands to 17 parameters, whose values are chosen by the column pointed to by the number in the appropriate column of MIDE?

Am I getting this right?

4) Finally, for someone who doesn't want to spend dozens of hours working on this (and can't given family and work!), could you help me figure out what changes will get the most bang for my buck, and what order to do them in? I figure black level, gamma, white level - reducing VM? Best targets to use from AVIA?

Thanks for your help!
Michael

No cable channel-based test targets or anything? No built in test patterns in Motorola cable STB? No way to feed a video input into the cable box?

jasperm,

I have the same set and the Comcast/Motorola DCT6200. I found out that INHD1 broadcasts HD test patterns at 7:00am EDT on Saturdays. Check it out!

Cheers! :cool:

Mike,

I own the same exact set, i can guarantee you that this set will calibrate wonderfully if you know what your doing.

Firstly i would leave the dvd player settings at default and adjust the display not the dvd picture settings.

There are some service menu tweaks that will greatly improve your PQ if you know what you are doing and how to use the service menu.

Remember to write everything down before you change anything in the service menu, this will save you a lot of pain incase you forget what the original setting is or screw up.

So here's the code sequence to enter the service menu: "DISPLAY" "5" "VOLUME+" "POWER".

To navigate the service menu use the 1 and 4 keys, to change the values use the 3 and 6 keys.

To save a value setting press "MUTING" then "ENTER", the words "WRITE" will be displayed in red if it got saved.To exit the service menu just simply turn your tv off.

Settings that will fix any color decoder errors are RYR,RYB,GYR and GYB.

RYR and RYB will fix the red push, and GYR and GYB will fix the greens.

even though you have turned off clear edge in the user menu, it is not completely off in the service menu. If you want to completely disable it turn these settings to 0:

VMLV
VMCR
VMLM
VMFO
VMDL
SHOF is an sharpness enhancer that artificially shrapens the image, it's best left off since it adds noise to the picture when it's on.

LTLV
CTLV
VM
VMH
VMM
VML

turning these off to 0 will get rid of any edge enhancement to the picture, that way you can get edge enhancement from the sorce material not the display.

QPDC will increase center focus of the set, and make everything much clearer and sharp, you will need a test pattern with a grid such as the 16:9 test patterns, to see how the focus improves by fiddling with QPDC.

Then there's overscan adjustments that will fix your picture size incase your tv is cutting out any part of the image that should'nt be cut.

Firstly you will need an overscan test pattern to see how much overscan your set has.Typically you would want to keep it at 5% or lower, but i'd say 5% is just about right. maybe 4% or 3" if you can get it any lower without showing black bars around the picture.

That's pretty much it really that i did with my sony, these adjustments alone will give you a much better picture than the way it came out of the box when you bought it.

Here's a tip, before going into the service menu keep all the picture settings in the middle, and adjust them after your done with the service menu.Use the "PRO" picture mode since this gives the most accurate picture of them all and is the best to use for PQ.

Have fun, any questions feel free to ask either me or any other sony owner.Infact there's another thread i made called "sony tweaking tips", you might want to check that out as well since it gives a lot of helpfull information.

But there are some assumptions that I feel I'm missing in terms of how to approach this:
1) . . . I'm guessing there's no way for me to calibrate for cable box input without including DVD in loop - is that right?Yeah, that's probably right. But if you use the same input class for both (say, component on V5 and V6), you are at least guaranteeling that the TV is calibrated closely enough. I believe the DVD player contributes very little to color distortion, and you'll have to take it on faith that the cable box is similarly neutral. Broadcast-HD *material* is not completely conststent in color balance, although I find the black level to be way better than SD/analog.

2) Assuming I can use only the DVD to calibrate, what about the various adjustments on the DVD player? Do I leave those at default and just adjust the tv?For color you don't have any controls in the DVD player, right? So that's not an issue. But black level is dependent on what is offered by the DVD player. My Toshiba SD-3950 has settings for Standard, Enhanced Black Level, Movie 1, Movie 2, and Animation. Each tweaks the black level and brightness-span. Since my player always passes both super-black (pluge) and super-white, I have picked the setting that most closely matches other inputs in black level. Then I used 2170P-3 #13/UBOF to adjust black level to match among the inputs: DVD (V5), VCRs (V1, V3), HD (tuner-720p and 1080i), and analog cable SD (tuner-480i). Note that the UBOF setting will be *different* between interlaced and progressive signals from the DVD player.
Given the user settings, the serv menu tweaks, and the DVD's settings, what order would you go about adjusting things in to get not just the DVD input good, but also as many of the others, too?I would concentrate first on overall black level (2170P-1, SBRT), a color temp near 6500K (2170P-1, RDRV thru BCUT) and a neutral grayscale. (See my early articles in this thread.) Then calibrate color decoding with what the Avia disk offers (2170P-4, RYR thru GYB).

On top of this foundation, you can then fine-tune for matching black levels among the inputs/devices (2170P-3, UBOF) as well as color level and hue balancing, if needed (2170P-3, UHOF, UCOF). If you find that the blacks are color contaminated in one of your inputs (mine was 1080i HD broadcast = yellowish), you can adjust 2170P-1, CBOF and CROF for blue and red only. YOF is yet another place for black-level balancing, it seems, but I haven't used it.

3) Is it that for each combination (eg video 6, 480 p, Movie) for MIDE, the number in the appropriate column points to the column of settings in MID5 that are used for that set of 17 values (the MID5 parameters?). . . . Am I getting this right?Yep. You have it exactly right. "Getting" this is a requirement for intelligent image tweaking, as I described in Article #12.

4) Finally, for someone who doesn't want to spend dozens of hours working on this (and can't given family and work!), could you help me figure out what changes will get the most bang for my buck, and what order to do them in? I figure black level, gamma, white level - reducing VM? Best targets to use from AVIA?I think you are on the right track. I would go from the global to the specific, and the order in which I wrote the articles implies what order I considered important as I did this. I think gamma is *very* important, as much program material is dead-wrong in contrast in Pro mode. I highly recommend using two or three of the picture modes for your own purposes. For me, I have set Standard - Movie - Pro to be identical except for gamma, with GAMH thru GAML parameters of (respectively) 6 - 3 - 0 (and GAMS = 0). A setting of 3 is dead-on the TV standard of gamma = 2.2 and is what I use the most. But it's nice to have the others available as a simple button-press. Vivid is reserved for experimentation. I have no use for Sony's original settings!

I can't comment on the Avia targets, as I have only the DVE disk. But be sure to use the color-gun controls in 2170P-2 #1/RGBS instead of the hand-held color filters. If you want to start with decent settings, you might try settings of 14-15-7-5 for RYB thru GYB.

The current orthodoxy that "all VM is bad" is dead wrong! Certainly Sony's presets for VM are coarse and ugly, but that just reflects on Sony's lack of sophisticated judgement here, not on what VM potentially can do for image quality. I have increased its finesse and decreased the amount and choose now to use it all the time! It makes a subtle and attractive correction in a fine picture that sharpness enhancement doesn't quite match. See Article #12.

Clarification for Croc: In 2170P-3, VMLV is a temporary setting that is not saved. It always reflects the current ClearEdge VM setting, and if that's set to None, VMLV = 0. VMCR thru VMDL have no effect if ClearEdge VM is set to None. They are how you control the "look" of VM *if* it is applied. Note that some VM seems to be added by other settings that are not under user control, possibly 2170P-3, one or more of F1LV thru CTLV. I keep these set to "no effect", as I don't like what they do to the image.

Overall focus is a compromise between focusing bright objects and focusing dark objects, as the scanning dot "blooms" as it gets bright. I will be writing an improved article #07 soon about how to do this more precisely, including the internal focus control on the HV transformer. QPDC *adjusts* the overall dynamic focus of the screen, and its effect is mostly visible in the center. But other adjustments in the 2170P-4 "QP--" series affect the sides, top & bottom, and corners. Using anything but a 2-dinensional high-contrast pattern will mislead you into focusing wrongly -- don't use the raster lines as a criterion! One could argue that an HD broadcast of a sporting event and its long shots of the crowd might be the best pattern. If you diddle, write down the settings before changing them.

DF and DQF are left-right spot-shape balance controls and should maybe be left alone for now. My article will describe how to adjust them using Sony's official methods.

SHOF is an sharpness enhancer that artificially shrapens the image, it's best left off since it adds noise to the picture when it's on.
Croc, you misunderstand this. SHOF (which is never *completely* off) is the setup for the Sharpness slider in the user menu, along with SYSM. SYSM is by far the crudest sharpness enhancer, and you might try turning SYSM to 3 (off) and SHOF to 2 or 3 to see the effect. The two *together* seem too much for me, but I think the coarse SYSM is the culprit. In particluar, SYSM is fairly gross on fine detail when set to 1 (max effect). SYSM may have a role in attempting to resurrect really mushy SD video, but it is way overkill for good video.

Note that SHOF has *no* effect when Sharpness is set to 0, but SYSM = 1 or 2 has a minimum effect at aoubt 12-15, softening the image below that. SYSM = 1 can produce strange double edges at some settings. Yecch!

None of these *add* noise. If there is grain or noise in the original video, *any* sharpening will emphasize it along with the picture detail. At a reasonable viewing distance, the eye has no trouble ignoring the noise even if the picture detail has been optimized (sharpened) to taste. Some video has almost no noise at all, and these sharpening controls are then capable of overempahisizing edge detail to the point of nastiness before making noise a problem. Balance is the key.

Again, there are few hard-and-fast rules. Do what suits your eye at a *reasonable* viewing distance, and don't go up-close to the screen on SD material and complain about the noise! The purpose for adjustable sharpness controls is to compensate for sharpness losses in the video material, which varies all over creation, and you should "tune" it until your eyes are pleased as you sit and watch a program or DVD. Think of them as *equalizers.*

If you would please read the PDF of article #12, you will understand more about the image-tuning parameters in 2170P-3 and MID5.

Hi - Thanks for another very clear, helpful post. Regarding the DVD controls, however, there are color controls - I just upgraded from an older Samsung to the pioneer 588a, and it has these video controls:

Sharpness, Brightness, Contrast, Gamma, Hue, Chroma Level, BNR

Haven't tried it yet (it's a Father's Day present, so I don't know about it yet...except that I ordered it, of course) so I can't say how they function.

Michael

Yes i know SHOF is not completely off but it looks better at 0 since there is less noise.

This is a great thread and thanks for the efforts in supplying this information. I will need to spend more time reading and studying this.

I have determined to my satisfaction that some of the ISF standards are not required to such precision (6500K for example; 6350K would be fine) and the tendency to calibrate a "brightness" level (meaning Picture) is complete nonsense. There is no correct "brightness" of white; what is required depends on taste, the environment, and the particular TV's tendency to bloom at high brightness. These limits are easy to spot.
I would say you are only partially right here. The ISF standards are meaningful targets and rarely can all be achieved. The closer we can adjust all of the parameters, the better the picture will be. Any good ISF calibrator should calibrate to the CIE x/y coordinates where the true D65 = (x = .313/ y = .329), not to 6500K. True, D65 cannot always be achieved, however in calibrating, it is critical that no part of the gray scale goes plus green.

Any good ISF calibrator should calibrate to the CIE x/y coordinates where the true D65 = (x = .313/ y = .329), not to 6500K.Any chance of translating this into english for those of us who don't speak calibratese? :)

The closer we can adjust all of the parameters, the better the picture will be. Any good ISF calibrator should calibrate to the CIE x/y coordinates where the true D65 = (x = .313/ y = .329), not to 6500K.Those precise decimals are very impressive, and I do know exactly what they mean, but . . . how does the *eye* see it? As ADU implies, you are speaking about a TV working backwards from your instruments. Even color temperature in degrees-Kelvin is sort of obscure, except it's the best way to make simple comparisons. Like pounds or inches.

In other words, better according to whom? Closer to what? If you have read what I have written, you know that I agree that there are some parameters that need to be nearly perfect -- good grayscale is one. But I believe that there are common-sense standards that can be achieved fairly easily without paying for "official" ISF calibration. I balk at the notion that there are people with "special knowledge" who need to be hired to make your TV "perfect" and that this is treated occasionally as incontestable religion or at least with considerable snobbery! Maybe -- if you are not technically inclined, are well-heeled, or are undisciplined or impatient with fussy detail. Out of the box, an ISF calibration can transform one of these sets, no question!

But for everyone? I am simply making the case that, for many folks, there are skills that you can learn that will give you long-term control over these excellent sets and how they behave *without* paying for help every time you get it in your head that something's not quite right. You get to pick how far you want to go at this, and you have the personal satisfaction of having done it yourself. My obvious bias is toward self-education rather than "call an expert," and I walk the talk.

Consider: Some ISF techs charge $300 per *input*? Give me a break! The most important setups that determine the overall appearance of the set are *common* to all the inputs. A fairer way to charge would be $<amount> for basic setup and one input, plus $<lesser amount> for each additional input, no?

Further, I read in the AV groups that seem dominated by ISF technicians (not this one) that there is *one* standard for, say, white color temp, and anything that deviates a bit from that is hopelessly off. And no one speaks of correct gamma when, in fact there is an acknowledged standard for that (2.20). Is gamma adjustment part of the ISF calibration? Has anyone tried to watch ABC's dark "Lost" in HD/Pro mode with its gamma of about 2.45?

Back to color. My contention is that there is a range of whites that is satisfactorily perceived as pure white if that illuminant is dominating the vision field, and that there are certain colors that are "contaminants" of that scale that must be minimized (green and not-green/pink). My eyes say loud and clear: front-lighted mid-day (dense) clouds in clean air are really white. (Experts say this is 6100-6500K.) Sunlight, absent any clouds, is warmer. Thin overcast is cool. Yes, I can judge under all of these conditions what the real colors of objects are -- we are evolved to do this after all. But I have had the long-term task of calibrating computer monitors for graphic artists, and I have had to confront head-on "What is white?" This has been is on monitors that "emit" light (CTRs), and so the gray scale is seamlessly continuous with white, true also of CRT TVs and Plasma sets. My mantra has been: "In dim ambient light, eyes adjusted to screen, if it looks white, it *is* white." The other colors displayed are derived by the eye-brain combo as *relative* to this white. And so critical small color tints are correctly perceived.

So now comes my excellent TV and its precise calibrations. I calibrated my 36XS955's "Neutral" to a white point exactly matching front-lighted white clouds, and I made the gray scale as perfect as it can be. I then calculated what a correct color-temp deviation from that would be for Warm and Cool, using high-precision glass photographic filters as a standard, and set Warm to be equivalent to an 85A filter, or a bit less, and Cool to be its opposite. That's a weak salmon or blue-cyan color.

Result? In normal evening viewing conditions, all whites (graphics, blown highlights, pure-white test patterns) appear pure white. Really white. If I switch to Warm, I get used to it with out much trouble; but after an hour or so I can still look at the whites and say, "Y'know, those look a bit warm." Same with Cool: I accept the change without much complaint, but it never looks quite right to me, and I revert to that middle Neutral setting. (If I had preferred either Warm or Cool, I would have altered Neutral to match.)

That confirms more than any measurement that my color-temp settings are correct. Is my white 6500K? Maybe it is; actually I wish I knew someone with a colorimeter so we could measure it. But if it turned out to be 6250K, I wouldn't change it for anything! In viewing a variety of program material, there are *much* bigger problems to solve: black-level anarchy in broadcast SD, color casts and gross oversharpening in HD broadcasts, horrible excess color in a lot of PBS stuff (Jeez!). So after all this trouble, you are still lunging for the Menu button on the remote to make adjustments. But at least the whites are *white.*

Any chance of translating this into english for those of us who don't speak calibratese? :)

"Show me the money."

So these SONY codes will work as well for my 40" SONY direct view TV ?

If not do such codes exist for this unit ?

Thanks in advance.

Any chance of translating this into english for those of us who don't speak calibratese? :)
Sure, most everyone has seen this in TV reviews that contain the color space triangle. The triangle, where Green is at the top, Red on the right and Blue in the lower left. This triangle represents the colors that phosphors were able to achieve for RGB. Within that triangle exist all of the colors a TV can produce. The triangle is plotted within the CIE color chart by their x/y coordinates. Within the triangle lies a range of values for white, from cool to warm. Movies and film base their whites on D65, therefore we try to achieve a uniform gray scale at D65 for correct reproduction of movies and film. (see attachment)

Those precise decimals are very impressive, and I do know exactly what they mean, but . . . how does the *eye* see it? As ADU implies, you are speaking about a TV working backwards from your instruments. Even color temperature in degrees-Kelvin is sort of obscure, except it's the best way to make simple comparisons. Like pounds or inches.
Well, when you have a colorimeter, you can actually measure the changes and that the eye can detect changes as small as .002, .004 can be very noticeable at times, especially when it is towards green. Without getting into too much detail, 6500K is within a range and can lie anywhere from .29 to .36 on the y axis, however D65 is a specific x/y point, .313/.329. If you have a white at .313/.340, it is still 6500K, however to the eye in comparison to D65, it will be GREEN.


In other words, better according to whom? Closer to what? If you have read what I have written, you know that I agree that there are some parameters that need to be nearly perfect -- good grayscale is one. But I believe that there are common-sense standards that can be achieved fairly easily without paying for "official" ISF calibration. I balk at the notion that there are people with "special knowledge" who need to be hired to make your TV "perfect" and that this is treated occasionally as incontestable religion or at least with considerable snobbery! Maybe -- if you are not technically inclined, are well-heeled, or are undisciplined or impatient with fussy detail. Out of the box, an ISF calibration can transform one of these sets, no question!

But for everyone? I am simply making the case that, for many folks, there are skills that you can learn that will give you long-term control over these excellent sets and how they behave *without* paying for help every time you get it in your head that something's not quite right. You get to pick how far you want to go at this, and you have the personal satisfaction of having done it yourself. My obvious bias is toward self-education rather than "call an expert," and I walk the talk.

Consider: Some ISF techs charge $300 per *input*? Give me a break! The most important setups that determine the overall appearance of the set are *common* to all the inputs. A fairer way to charge would be $<amount> for basic setup and one input, plus $<lesser amount> for each additional input, no?
You should be getting what you pay for. An ISF calibrator should have $10K - $15K of equipment to do a proper calibration. Calibrators can charge what they want. The ISF recommended fees start at $225 - $325 for the first input and $125 for additional inputs. I even have this posted on my website.

Further, I read in the AV groups that seem dominated by ISF technicians (not this one) that there is *one* standard for, say, white color temp, and anything that deviates a bit from that is hopelessly off. And no one speaks of correct gamma when, in fact there is an acknowledged standard for that (2.20). Is gamma adjustment part of the ISF calibration? Has anyone tried to watch ABC's dark "Lost" in HD/Pro mode with its gamma of about 2.45?
Yes, for movies and film based material, D65 is correct for accurate reproduction. If it was produced at D65 it should be displayed at D65 to be correct. However for old B&W movies, an additional calibration at D54 may be appropriate.

Back to color. My contention is that there is a range of whites that is satisfactorily perceived as pure white if that illuminant is dominating the vision field, and that there are certain colors that are "contaminants" of that scale that must be minimized (green and not-green/pink). My eyes say loud and clear: front-lighted mid-day (dense) clouds in clean air are really white. (Experts say this is 6100-6500K.) Sunlight, absent any clouds, is warmer. Thin overcast is cool. Yes, I can judge under all of these conditions what the real colors of objects are -- we are evolved to do this after all. But I have had the long-term task of calibrating computer monitors for graphic artists, and I have had to confront head-on "What is white?" This has been is on monitors that "emit" light (CTRs), and so the gray scale is seamlessly continuous with white, true also of CRT TVs and Plasma sets. My mantra has been: "In dim ambient light, eyes adjusted to screen, if it looks white, it *is* white." The other colors displayed are derived by the eye-brain combo as *relative* to this white. And so critical small color tints are correctly perceived.What you are saying is, you can go outside, look at the clouds, then go inside and look at your TV and say they are the same color, by memory? If you are looking at the clouds through a window, you have a problem. Just put a piece of white paper in front of a mirror and compare the color of the paper to the color of the image of the paper in the mirror.

So now comes my excellent TV and its precise calibrations. I calibrated my 36XS955's "Neutral" to a white point exactly matching front-lighted white clouds, and I made the gray scale as perfect as it can be. I then calculated what a correct color-temp deviation from that would be for Warm and Cool, using high-precision glass photographic filters as a standard, and set Warm to be equivalent to an 85A filter, or a bit less, and Cool to be its opposite. That's a weak salmon or blue-cyan color.

Result? In normal evening viewing conditions, all whites (graphics, blown highlights, pure-white test patterns) appear pure white. Really white. If I switch to Warm, I get used to it with out much trouble; but after an hour or so I can still look at the whites and say, "Y'know, those look a bit warm." Same with Cool: I accept the change without much complaint, but it never looks quite right to me, and I revert to that middle Neutral setting. (If I had preferred either Warm or Cool, I would have altered Neutral to match.)

That confirms more than any measurement that my color-temp settings are correct. Is my white 6500K? Maybe it is; actually I wish I knew someone with a colorimeter so we could measure it. But if it turned out to be 6250K, I wouldn't change it for anything! In viewing a variety of program material, there are *much* bigger problems to solve: black-level anarchy in broadcast SD, color casts and gross oversharpening in HD broadcasts, horrible excess color in a lot of PBS stuff (Jeez!). So after all this trouble, you are still lunging for the Menu button on the remote to make adjustments. But at least the whites are *white.*If you are happy with the way you have white calibrated, then you are set. How uniform is your gray scale tracking from 10IRE, 20IRE….100IRE? what about color decoding, is Red the proper Red? You may be able to get a local ISF calibrator to come evaluate your calibration for a minimal fee or trade for your knowledge in your Sony and the SM adjustments, if he is not experienced with it.

I once read that of all of the recreational golfers, less than 10% can score under 100. it would be great if 10% of TV owners could properly set their TV. I have seen many try to set/calibrate their TV with Avia or DVE and just can’t do it, most won’t even buy the disc.

You should be getting what you pay for. An ISF calibrator should have $10K - $15K of equipment to do a proper calibration. Calibrators can charge what they want. Yes, but I don't want their having to buy all this equipment to calibrate any TV they encounter under any lighting conditions to be my $$ problem, and anyone who learns to do *their own particular* TV doesn't have to make it their $$ problem, either. Having to buy all that equipment inflates the cost for setting up any one set considerably: any one customer is subsidizing your ability to set up other sets. *You* have to work with many different sets. But a typical owner has concern with only *one* set -- theirs. They can potentially learn a few tricks and buy *no* equipment at all -- except a good alignment DVD and maybe a memory stick.
Yes, for movies and film based material, D65 is correct for accurate reproduction. If it was produced at D65 it should be displayed at D65 to be correct.What does "produced" mean? I see a large proportion of movies and video that have obvious color casts, both accidental and for artistic effect. Are documentaries that show bluish snow or pinkish (real gray) rock "produced" at D65? And what do you think happens to pure white on a DVD or broadcast? You should be satisfying the *eye,* not an arbitrary standard. We are not matching fabric color swatches or printing inks, here, but attempting to reproduce what the real world of movie and video production throws at us.

BTW, you didn't address gamma. You *do* calibrate gamma, right?
However for old B&W movies, an additional calibration at D54 may be appropriate.Sheer nonsense! Who told you this? The makers of B/W films had no control over the color of white. Their film didn't record it. The projection systems were whatever color the arc lamps produced, and now are generally xenon-arc. What are you trying to accomplish with D54? The experience of average Joe in a typical theater of 1030-1945? Why would one want to do that? If the whites and all grays are uncontaminated by color, you have done your best, and approx 6500K is perfect! Want it warmer, turn the color-temp control to Warm.
What you are saying is, you can go outside, look at the clouds, then go inside and look at your TV and say they are the same color, by memory?You're misrepresenting my method on this entirely! Read my Article #03. I find this procedure very easy to do in a home environment. But you couldn't do this professionally in, say, an industrial environment. Hence the need for colorimetry instruments for *your* purposes.
If you are happy with the way you have white calibrated, then you are set.Yes, indeed, and I'm suggesting ways others might get there, too.How uniform is your gray scale tracking from 10IRE, 20IRE….100IRE? what about color decoding, is Red the proper Red?My God, you really haven't read any of the articles, have you? Please do so before you assume I'm a complete novice. "Is red the proper red?" Jeez, this has been beat to death here and in other threads. On this late XS/XBR series of Sony sets, one has only so many parameters that can be adjusted, and you are stuck with the CRT phosphors Sony gave us. One already has to fool around with the three-color gamma settings to get a linear gray scale in the brightness range of relevance. Then you run out of options, and you move on. There are 16 increments in the four color-matrix parameters (RYR, etc.), not 128. You pick the one setting for each that gets the closest, and move on. The *encoding* matrix for HD isn't consistent from broadcast station to station, and theory says that the current CRT phosphors aren't really correct for the HD standard for perfect color anyway. Why are we agonizing over three-decimal-place coordinates in perceptual color space?

A television set is an *entertainment* system, not a precious religious icon! Not an antique violin! Source materials available for consumption vary widely in their perfection, no matter the format. When the TV is correctly adjusted according to common-sense rules that take *vision* into account, what you see can bring great pleasure. That's the point! Garbage will still be garbage. An expensive ISF calibration has to be evaluated in terms of benefit/cost ratio for the *result.* No amount of hand-waving statements about IRE levels (Of course you mean image- *brightness* levels, right? How many people do you think understand IRE levels?), the difference between D65 and 6500K, etc. means squat if the picture does not please the person watching.

My goal has been to suggest ways to achieve the best picture possible with these late XS and XBR CRT sets (and no others!), based on solid principles and sound engineering experience, and then publish what I have done so others can try it. Folks should judge based on the results.
it would be great if 10% of TV owners could properly set their TV.The ones who are truly interested had to at least get to this forum, and a subset of those actually dig in and try stuff. Three cheers! Others have two choices: (1) endure what they have purchased, out of the box, having only the User Menu at their disposal; and (2) hire someone to do the work for them at whatever cost. I'm addressing only the folks in this forum; I don't sell any TV-setup services.

Thanks to Kentech, my tv set looks 70% better out of the box after doing some service menu changes and using DVE tp calibrate my set... Thanks Kentech:)

I probably saved myself some money doing the calibration myself too.

I gotta ask how you guys play with the crosshatch screens. I start staring at this stuff and nothing looks good! Do you actually get out a level to see if you've got straight lines? do you measure each box to see if they're all the same? Start from the top and work down??

My only real problem is that 480p material looks like crap compared to 480i. I fooled with different tweaking today, but can't say I came up with anything great. I get a lot of jagged edges. Maybe my 20" samsung using s-video acts as a great anti-aliaser, but I was expecting a lot more from gamecube on component cables in progressive mode.

The same can be said for my dvd player though. 480i output by the dvd player is better than 480p (which is just jaggy city).

So these SONY codes will work as well for my 40" SONY direct view TV ?

If not do such codes exist for this unit ?

Thanks in advance.


Sure do.

One last comment. Many calibrators, including ISF, have been calibrating with the aide of optical comparators, and it works. I have a Sony PVM-96 B&W D65 reference monitor to use as such. It’s a great backup especially for difficult situations like dark CRT home theaters.

We have no control over poor camera calibrations, poor mastering and post production errors as well as transmission errors, however most movies that are produced and have been produced on film use D65 as a white reference.

Yes, I try to adjust Gamma, when I can. Some TVs just don’t have much to work with. Then there is the issue of trying for 2.5 in a dark theater environment or 2.2 with ambient light conditions or the TV won’t get any better than 1.75………….
An expensive ISF calibration has to be evaluated in terms of benefit/cost ratio for the *result.* Exactly, some may want to go play a round of golf or go out to dinner or something other than spending hours trying to learn all of factors needed to do their own calibration, then spend the time doing it. Some people repair their own car, others take it to a mechanic...... I choose to repair my own cars.
No amount of hand-waving statements about IRE levels (Of course you mean image- *brightness* levels, right? How many people do you think understand IRE levels?), the difference between D65 and 6500K, etc. means squat if the picture does not please the person watching.IRE levels are simply a percentage white level. 100IRE is full white 0IRE is black (7.5IRE is black for NTSC). 100IRE may be 50 foot lamberts on your TV and only 25 on another. Kind of like full throttle on a Porsche may get 180MPH and on a mini-van 100MPH, but both are full throttle. For whatever reason, TVs have a control that is labeled “Brightness” who’s function is to adjust Black Level. As for various people not wanting to watch a movie with white set to or as close to the D65 reference point as possible, it is their choice. All I am saying here is if white is at or close to the D65 point, then all other colors, assuming no major decoder errors, will fairly accurately represent/reproduce the original film image. As you move away from this point, you are introducing a color shift, usually plus blue.

This forum is for those who want more information, DIY and or modify/enhance their own devices. We are all free to choose how we want to watch what we watch. The same goes for calibrations, some can’t do it, some can do it and some just don’t want to spend the time to do it.

I gotta ask how you guys play with the crosshatch screens. I start staring at this stuff and nothing looks good! Do you actually get out a level to see if you've got straight lines? do you measure each box to see if they're all the same? Start from the top and work down??
The first rule of crosshatch patterns: Don't obsess! A well-adjusted TV that pleases the viewer will show geometry defects on crosshatch patterns that are *not* apparent in the usual video material. They will, indeed, confirm something you suspect already (major bowing of horizontal lines, barrel distortion left and right, etc.). But little squiggles are best ignored given the imperfect state of all consumer CRT and deflection technology. Try to get the overall pattern square to the screen's edges with the TV oriented in its normal viewing position, and you can try the various internal/service-mode adjustments to minimize any overall trapezoidal or pincushion/barrel distortions. Then go back to watching real video.

For the technically-inclined, the patterns are especially useful for examining the focus of horizontal vs. vertical lines, revealing color-convergence issues, and seeing nonlinearity or wrong aspect ratio in the overall scan. The squares should ideally be *square* most everywhere on the tube. Circles work well, too. But the crosshatch pattern will reveal if the scan lines are being selectively squeezed somewhere on the screen by a nonlinearity problem.

Another particular example: For precisely focusing the newer Sony CRTs, you first should completely defocus the beam (internal adjustment), turn off all but the green gun, and *balance* the width of vertical lines to the left and right of center with one or two service-mode adjustments. Then you move on to precise, fine focus. White crosshatch on black is perfect for this first step. An upcoming article will detail this process.

(Your other questions should probably be in another, more general, thread.)

IRE levels are simply a percentage white level. 100IRE is full white 0IRE is black (7.5IRE is black for NTSC). 100IRE may be 50 foot lamberts on your TV and only 25 on another. Kind of like full throttle on a Porsche may get 180MPH and on a mini-van 100MPH, but both are full throttle.
I understand this, and what is most important is that IRE is a way of stating how a certain brightness level is represented in the video signal by a specific voltage. Pity that broadcasters don't pay more attention -- they with their waveform monitors and vector scopes! Why does PBS's Friday-evening SD programming require cranking down the Brightness (black level) and Color by about 8-10 points each just to match other stations' appearance?

Given that, different sets with their different CRT and dynamic-focusing technologies are capable of very different maximum brightnesses for 100IRE white. In some sets, as you crank up the brightness ("picture"), the scanning spot bloats (blooms) so much that black detail against white is swallowed up and white text loses all form. Critical viewers must then be satisfied with a less-bright picture.

On the other hand, the newer Sony sets with the fine-pitch tubes have a great combination of electron gun and dynamic focus that allows a superbly-focused bright picture, whites and colors, making for a very satisfying viewing experience. Thus one can enjoy sports on a bright afternoon or a well-produced movie in the evening without taxing the poor tube's abilities.
As for various people not wanting to watch a movie with white set to or as close to the D65 reference point as possible, it is their choice. All I am saying here is if white is at or close to the D65 point, then all other colors, assuming no major decoder errors, will fairly accurately represent/reproduce the original film image. As you move away from this point, you are introducing a color shift, usually plus blue. I agree completely! Most sets come adjusted for some outrageously bluish white point approaching 8000-9000K because it makes the colors look super-bright when examined superficially, say in a store. Maybe most buyers simply don't care. But I'll bet they're not in this forum looking for answers and help.

I understand this, and what is most important is that IRE is a way of stating how a certain brightness level is represented in the video signal by a specific voltage. Pity that broadcasters don't pay more attention -- they with their waveform monitors and vector scopes! Why does PBS's Friday-evening SD programming require cranking down the Brightness (black level) and Color by about 8-10 points each just to match other stations' appearance?
The main issues here: HD with a black threshold of 0IRE and SD/NTSC with a 7.5IRE black level. This issue will probably never go away, in our lifetime, as long as older NTSC programming exists.

I usually set up an additional mode for the NTSC programs. This results in my setting/calibrating 4 modes for a TV input on the Sony, HD night and day and NTSC night and day. DVD gets two modes, night and day.

The main issues here: HD with a black threshold of 0IRE and SD/NTSC with a 7.5IRE black level.
Out of the box, these Sonys have mostly compensated for this. I originally found far greater differences between cable channels than between HD and average SD. In any case, if that needs adjusting, one only has to go (for example) to service mode 2170P-3 #13 UBOF to equalize black level among the basic input types and their scan modes. The service-data chart shows what's possible. Also useful: 2170P-1 #2, YOF. An additional compensation for near-black color contamination solves the problem for 1080i on these sets (yellowish on mine).
I usually set up an additional mode for the NTSC programs. This results in my setting/calibrating 4 modes for a TV input on the Sony, HD night and day and NTSC night and day. DVD gets two modes, night and day.
A bit of overkill for these Sony sets, in my opinion, and not worth the expense. Having set up the HD/memory-stick signal path with a memory stick color-calibration pattern or just the component-video path (V5-V6) with an alignment DVD, SD video of all kinds is quite adequate, as there are more errors and problems with the material than nit-picking the TV can resolve in advance. If the user's high proprity is DVD movies, then DVD alignment disks take into account their own particular DVD player, as well. The memory-stick calibration really handles the HD signal-path very well, to my delight. I regret that the HS420 and HS510 folks don't have memory-stick slots!

Night and day? Why? If the room lighting is bright, turn up Picture about 10 notches and raise black level ("Brightness") a little, until shadow detail is resolved to your liking. How can "calibration" possibly help, here? Wouldn't it be better to teach the customer how to use the user-menu settings to their advantage? I doubt whether anyone following these forums wants their TV set up so as to keep them stupid: "Just push button A for day, and push button B for night."

These settings should be done at the time of viewing, not in advance. The criteria for correct color and gamma don't change from day to night; and they, too, are determined by the program material. The purpose for calibration should be to establish a *baseline* that the user can return to when appropriate (or confused), then make setting changes to suit preferences for the viewing conditions and video material. How does that baseline change from night to day?

I have set up my set so that the midpoint of all of the user-menu sliders ("31") is the best-calibrated position for color, hue (center), and black level (especially BL for HD broadcast). 31 is also my average Picture setting for evening HD and DVD-960i/anamorphic viewing. Progressive modes, some SD broadcasts, and bright afternoons require a higher Picture setting. I have set up three of the four picture modes so that they *only* vary gamma: maximum gamma (as in Pro mode, about 2.45), gamma = 2.2, and gamma = about 2.0 (which I never really use). Gamma = 2.45 makes a lot of SD channels come alive, since the lighting is so flat much of the time. For fine productions on HD and DVD, however, 2.2 seems much more correct to me.

Gamma = 2.45 makes a lot of SD channels come alive, since the lighting is so flat much of the time.You may already know this Ken, but some of the variation you see in the "brightness" of SD content may be due to different levels of correction (or "undercorrection") used on the source. The basic idea is that the correction used on most high quality content these days is different than it was in the past, to produce more dynamic results and insure that the picture isn't too bright overall in darker home theater like conditions. This is one reason you probably hear alot of complaints about new DVDs or some TV shows looking too dark on some TVs. This is also why a PC interface (the desktop and applications other than the video overlay) will often look rather bright when plugged into a TV-- because it doesn't have the same level of correction as video (unless you make the appropriate adjustment in display properties yourself).

[Edited to reflect the newer gamma info in Post #343 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5994372&&#post5994372).]

I wonder if you'd be willing to indulge me in a little experiment. I'm curious to know how gamma works on the memory stick.

Attached are two patterns. One has RGB=127 greys, and the other RGB=106 greys. If my theory above holds true and the memory stick works essentially like a computer input with no undercorrection, the RGB=127 greys will look too bright on your TV and more like a light grey or even an off-white than a "neutral grey". While the RGB=106 greys may perhaps look more neutral.

[Edit: Based on new info in Post #343 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5994372&&#post5994372), RGB=106 may not be the right color of grey to use for this test. If there is in fact a specific color of grey that should look "neutral" in standard SMPTE-170M (http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/spec/1.2/PNG-GammaAppendix.html)-corrected content (which is probably open to debate), it may perhaps be something a bit higher than 106 (but still less than 127). Bottom line-- in retrospect, this approach to using a particularly color of grey as a benchmark for gamma was probably rather flawed.]

Pattern #2

You may already know this Ken, but some of the variances you see in the "brightness" of SD content is likely due to different levels of undercorrection used on the source. I have no perspective on this "undercorrection" issue at all, and your comments are very interesting and welcome!.

Help me with a definition, though. I think in terms of computer-screen gamma, which relates the actual signal voltage to brightness on-screen. CRTs inherently respond nonlinearly to video voltages, and this curvature (deviation from a straight line, 1:1 relationship) has typically been a bit over 2.0. So computer monitors for the PC world have for a long time simply standardized on gamma approximating 2.2, and the sRGB color space, used widely in Windows graphics programs and digital cameras, specifies a gamma of 2.2.

(On the other hand, I exist in the Mac world, and for some reason the Macintosh display standard is gamma = 1.8. Go figure. I can twiddle all of this in the Displays driver software part of the O/S.)

But I don't understand your use of the term "net gamma." Do you mean the ratio of video material's *design* or intended gamma and the display? All through the production chain, replete with precision monitors and vectorscopes and waveform monitors, the monitor gamma = 2.2, and I would imagine producers make judgements based on what they see on those monitors. Based on the whole notion of having some "calibrated" base to use as a touchstone, I would imagine having 2.2 as an available choice is a really good idea. How does this relate to what you said?

[Later Addnedum: I just discovered your gamma-etc. thread and links. (Why haven't I seen this before?) I see (1) my understanding of gamma needs to be more sophisticated, and (2) I have some reading to do tomorrow!]

I wonder if you'd be willing to indulge me in a little experiment. I'm curious to know how gamma works on the memory stick. Attached are two patterns.
With pleasure! And if you haven't already gotten the tool that lets you easily ascertain your own screen's gamma, the patterns I posted in Post #29 are the key. (Use Pro mode only -- NO vertical sharpening!)

Forgive me if you've already said this -- Am I right that you don't have a MS slot? Or just haven't sprung for a stick yet? (I'm sure these patterns can be adapted to JPEG-on-CD or stills on DVD. I just haven't done it yet.)

My TV supports memory stick, but I don't use it because I have a computer connected via the DVI port.

"Net gamma" or "viewing gamma" is my term for the end result that you actually see on the screen after file/source, system, and monitor gamma are all combined. It's the same thing this guy describes as "total gamma" at the end of this webpage:

http://exviking.net/back/monitor/gamma_2.htm

[Edit: And the same thing this other page (http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/spec/1.2/PNG-GammaAppendix.html) refers to as the "end-to-end exponent".]

He probably gives a better explanation of it than I can, and the reasons video is undercorrected at the source to insure the picture isn't too bright on your TV.

Math has never been my forte, so its taken me quite awhile to get my mind around some of this stuff, especially the difference between file/source, system, monitor and perceived gamma (and I may still have some of it wrong.) When people start talking power curves, and 1.8 vs 2.2 vs. 2.5, I start to get confused, so it's often easier for me think in terms of the end result being displayed on the screen, and how that relates to the brightness of midtones in the image.

[Edited to reflect the newer gamma info in Post #343 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5994372&&#post5994372).]

Before I sign off I'll be adventurous and take one crack at explaining undercorrection as best I understand it.

Most CRTs have an exponent (or "display gamma") of about 2.2 to 2.5. When a high contrast CRT (like a TV) is viewed in very dim surroundings though, its midtones tend to appear much brighter (due to a phenomena known as either "simultaneous contrast" or "the surround effect"), and the perceived gamma of the picture is brighter by comparison to the surroundings. So instead of using a 1/2.2 or 1/2.5 correction to perfectly compliment the CRT gamma, modern TV cameras "shortchange" the correction a little, and use only about 1/2.0 correction to keep the end viewing gamma on the screen more in the 1.1 to 1.25 range (2.2/2.0=1.1 and 2.5/2.0= 1.25). This makes the picture slightly darker which is more comfortable to your eyes in the dim surroundings typical of nighttime home viewing, and it also increases the sense of depth and contrast in the picture, giving highlights and explosions more "pop".

The 1/2.0 (or ~.5) correction is relatively new though (probably a few decades old). In the past, the correction was more in the 1/2.2 (.45) or 1/2.5 (.4) range which meant that older NTSC video was a little "brighter" looking than most video now (2.2 CRT gamma x .4 or .45 correction = ~.9 or 1.0 viewing gamma). The gamma correction is different now I guess because more people are watching hi-contrast screens in darker home theater-like settings than in the 1950's when this stuff was originally worked out.

This unfortunately also means that the picture is a bit darker and less watchable during the day, when there tends to be more ambient light. Hence the addition of "Vivid" modes to TVs and DVD players, which boost white level and midtones to compensate. Glen's daytime/nighttime calibration scheme probably works in much the same way. The daytime calibration and Vivid modes on the TV/player are designed to compensate for the undercorrection applied in the video source for better nighttime viewing. At least I think that's the way all this jazz works.

[Edited to reflect the newer gamma info in Post #343 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5994372&&#post5994372).]

Man, I need some Excedrin now.

Yeah, maybe I shouldn't even have brought this up. :) Ignorance is bliss and Gamma can be a rather hairy topic.

If the gamma patterns in Post #29 are really telling you your monitor has a gamma of 2.45, that may not be so bad for certain types of content. If you change this near 2.5 exponent of the monitor to 2.2 using the gamma controls in the service menu, you may be brightening the picture on the TV more than needed for some video material (especially older NTSC content with brighter gamma), and sacrificing some of the contrast and depth on the display.

I'm not at all sure of this though. Maybe the patterns in Post #29 aren't telling you the monitor's gamma, but rather the "system" gamma of the memory stick (eek!).

Another thing to consider is whether you really want precisely the industry standard gamma on these TVs, or not. It's possible that you might want the midtones dialed up a bit (as you've already done) to compensate for some of the weaker points in the tube's design, especially black "purity" issues like phosphor lag, poor grey scale calibration, and internal reflections which tend to drown out and muddy up the "shadow detail" on these TVs.

As mentioned earlier, brightening the midtones/gamma is one way of compensating for a dimmer screen in a bright surround. And its possible you might want a little brighter than usual surround with these Sonys to hide the effects of phosphor lag on the screen. So that may be where the gamma adjustment is helping as well-- to compensate for slightly brighter than usual surrounding illumination for a home theater setting.

I guess this is a long way of saying that you may have made the right adjustment, but possibly for the wrong reasons(?) By boosting the midtones on the Pro mode though, you're kind of doing the exact same thing the Sony engineers already did in their Standard and/or Vivid picture mode on the TV. So there may be a bit of reinventing the wheel going on with these particular adjustments. Sony is obviously aware of all the issues above, and that may be precisely why they provided various "enhancements" to gamma/etc. that they did in their Standard and Vivid modes*.

Brightening the midtones does mean sacrificing some contrast/depth on the display though.

(*Footnote: Perhaps that may also be why they're biasing their gamma curve a little with GAMS, to pull more detail up out of the darker areas of the picture... if GAMS is indeed a bias control.)

[Edited to reflect the newer gamma info in Post #343 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5994372&&#post5994372).]

Attached are two patterns. One has RGB=127 greys, and the other RGB=106 greys. If my theory above holds true and the memory stick works essentially like a computer input with no undercorrection, the RGB=127 greys will look too bright on your TV and more like an off-white than a neutral grey. While the RGB=106 greys will look more neutral.
I just converted these to JPGs and viewed them on my TV at gamma = 2.2 as I have calibrated it. Also checked them out on my computer screen set to gamma = 2.2.

They look the same on computer and TV. The gray 106 (where 0 = black and 255 = white) is darker than the gray I associate with "50%" gray, and 127 looks about what I think is mid-gray. Neither is even close to white or off-white. If that were true, I would suspect "very" inappropriately low gamma or brightness-limiting in the video circuit!

I'm sorry some folks may be put off by this technical spinoff on gamma, but knowledge is power, here -- meaning one can take control of the TV and make what you choose to watch more attractively displayed. I think the time has arrived for a gamma control, and I regret having to take over two or three of the picture modes to do it. But this *does* do it. Having this control means, say, when sitting down to enjoy an episode of "Lost" on ABC:

(1) Reset black ("Brightness") to 31, then tweak it until there are no "black holes" and I can see shadow detail. This varies from one HD station to another, but not by much.
(2) Set "Picture" so blown-out whites and beach scenes aren't blindingly bright to my "evening" eyes.
(3) Choose the gamma the makes everything look okay to me. That's generally my current "middle" position of 2.2, which I have assigned to "Movie."

"Lost" is generally balanced sort of dark, and these settings work well. Works for CSI/Miami, too. But not for a couple of documentaries I have seen on PBS-HD, where the maxinum gamma (2.45) made the picture appear most realistic.

I *really* believe in the concept of a great baseline calibration, and then one should have the controls available to "tune" the display for the particular program or DVD you're watching. Your eyes don't lie, and they're *all* you have to please! Sharp focus, correct color decoding (no color push), available image enhancement if appropriate -- all are part of this baseline.

As I think about it, this statement I made eariler may be slightly off the mark:If the gamma patterns in Post #29 are really telling you your monitor has a power curve of 2.45, that may be close to what you want for standard video with an undercorrection of 1.25.
I get what you mean by "net gamma" and "undercorrection" now. If the "1.25" hypothesis is true, it is certainly a current issue, since gamma = 2.45 really improves almost all SD video of whatever source. So I use it when it looks better, which is the point of having it as a choice.
I'm not at all sure of this though. Maybe the patterns in Post #29 aren't telling you the monitor's gamma, but rather the "system" gamma of the memory stick (eek!).

Well, yes: we have to treat the TV as a "black box" having inputs (the video connectors and tuners) and an output (the screen). The published technical block diagram of the set (attached) strongly implies that the first part of this signal-handling chain from input to screen is *common* for memory stick and the HD tuner. Rather late in the chain, the common CXA2170 signal-processing chip handles the gamma parameters that are adjustable in service mode, and it does this *just* before passing the video to the CRT video-interface board. I am hard-put to believe that the engineers built in "special" gamma processing for different inputs *early* in the chain (your worry, right?), as it seems to make no sense, especially economically; and provision has been made to store a unique gamma-parameter set for each of 17 different input/scan/picture-mode combinations. Implication: one gamma-processing step that we can adjust in code group 2170P-4.

I can't simulate an SD cable signal, and it's a huge pain to build test patters for perfect playing on a DVD player. But my viewing experience confirms that there are no surprises when switching between an excellent DVD and good HD broadcasts. So I am trusting what the test patterns show and the MS slot for calibration until I have substantial evidence to the contrary. (In fact, I currently find that the color-matrix calibration through the MS slot pleases me more than the one on the DVE DVD. Go figure.)

You may actually want the midtones dialed up a bit (as you've already done) to compensate for some of the weaker points in the tube's design, especially black "purity" issues like phosphor lag, poor grey scale calibration, and internal reflections which tend to drown out and muddy up the "shadow detail" on these TVs. If I had to take a guess I'd say that the reason your slight gamma adjustment in the SM looks good on some content is because it compensates somewhat for these other problems with the blacks on the Sonys, rather than "correcting the gamma on your monitor to conform with the '2.2 standard'. . . . boosting the midtones is also a way of compensating for a dimmer screen in a bright surround. And in my experience you really need a brighter than usual surround with these Sonys to hide the effects of phosphor lag on the screen. So that may be where the gamma adjustment is helping you as well-- to compensate for slightly brighter than usual surrounding illumination for a home theater setting.
This is very likely the case. I have a critical eye, and the final result is all that matters to me. It may well be that the "2.2" standard is of no real consequence and I am really just tweaking gamma for the viewing conditions. At least the gamma measurement lets me know where the TV stands relative to production monitors and my computer screen (Mitsubishi Diamontron 21" CRT).
I guess this is a long way of saying that you may have made the right adjustment, but for the wrong reasons. By boosting the midtones on the Pro mode though, you're kind of doing the exact same thing the Sony engineers already did in their Standard picture mode on the TV.
Oh, I agree! Except Sony "polluted" those other modes with so many other "enhancements" (e.g. dynamic picture contrast, obnoxious and coarse VM). I guess I am trying to establish what effects I want and what I don't. Gamma control seems essential all by itself.
Footnote: That may also be why they're biasing their gamma curve a little with GAMS, to pull more detail up out of the darker areas of the picture... if GAMS is indeed a bias control.Haven't quite figured out exactly what GAMS does, but it seems to barely affect black level and raise the top brightness; and so it appears to add a linear slope to the gamma curve, doing what a little boost of the Picture slider would also do. For now I am leaving 2170P-4/GAMS at 0 for all combinations.

I just converted these to JPGs and viewed them on my TV at gamma = 2.2 as I have calibrated it. Also checked them out on my computer screen set to gamma = 2.2.

They look the same on computer and TV. The gray 106 (where 0 = black and 255 = white) is darker than the gray I associate with "50%" gray, and 127 looks about what I think is mid-gray. Neither is even close to white or off-white.Hmm... if that's really the case, then perhaps the memory stick may have some built-in correction, to conform the computer-created JPEGs more closely to corrected video. [Edit: Or not... still not quite sure about this.]

The DVI port doesn't seem to work quite like that, probably because it's designed to input high-def video which has already been pre-corrected before it arrives, rather than inputting directly from a computer. This is supported by the fact that DVDs in a computer video overlay look "correct" via DVI. Whereas the computer interface itself and other apps look much too bright on the TV (without some adjustment to the desktop gamma).

[Edited to reflect the newer gamma info in Post #343 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5994372&&#post5994372).]

If you want some more links to explore on the subject though, there are some here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3555581&&#post3555581
Thank you! Highly recommended reading for all (until your head aches, of course). I am happy to be prompted to re-read Poynton, whose articles I read a couple of years ago when I was trying to wrap my mind around the issues of digital-image manipulation and monitor calibration, important to my consulting business. Some of these links seem to be broken or deeply archived, and more digging is necessary.

Please note row #7 in the table here, regarding "gamma correction":
http://www.poynton.com/notes/color/GammaFQA.html

Maybe the "linear segment" referred to here is the purpose of 2170P-4/GAMS! Available if we want it. Very informative.

The DVI port doesn't seem to work quite like that, probably because it's designed to input high-def video which has already been 1.25 pre-corrected before it arrivesBut has it? Maybe it is entirely at the whim of the technical production folks. Much HD seems way too dark in the mid-tones for the "pro" gamma = 2.45 setting, even in evening lighting, and I am motivated to switch to the 2.2 setting I have arranged. (The ABC "Lost" example I mentioned.) At this point, I have given up on predicting this, and it is why I believe in the easy availability of a gamma adjustment.

One thing I will input here is, I played golf one day with a guy that worked for the color lab that did the postproduction HD processing of ABC’s Alias. I was told that the show was intentionally dark. I don’t know why they want to do that, but they do. Many others seem off also, NCIS always seemed dark and over saturated with color. When I start to question my calibration settings, I switch to HDNET and every thing goes back to the calibrated settings and looks great. I guess it’s just “Artistic”

Anything is possible. It's quite possible that the broadcasters are mucking things up a bit. Maybe PBS is only using .45 correction on their content, for example, and that's why their broadcasts seem brighter and need a darker gamma setting on the TV. Or maybe some stations are clipping their palettes and others aren't. When it comes to the world of broadcasting I suppose it's anybody's guess.

I've found pretty good consistency among DVDs though. Ie, the well-authored ones all seem to work more or less correctly with about the same gamma adjustment on the TV. The only noteworthy exceptions to this that I've found are some old telecasts, and bargain DVDs transfered from older NTSC material which look brighter, and probably used the .4 to .45 correction.

I'm not sure if a reliable baseline can be established from the HD broadcasts. But it should be possible for DVDs. And if the HD is being broadcast correctly it should be using the same gamma as DVDs. If it's not, then they're deviating from the standard (which is quite possible).

If I could figure out what's happening with the gamma on the memory stick, then I could probably use that to establish a baseline gamma for DVDs. If RGB=127 looks like a 50% neutral grey on the memory stick, then I think either you may have the contrast set rather low on your TV, or the memory stick could be applying a correction to the JPEG files to darken them up a bit for better viewing on a TV, similar to the undercorrection used in video cameras. JPEG and other computer-based images will look unnaturally bright on a TV screen unless there's a correction applied to them somewhere along line. This correction doesn't have to be occuring in the TV btw. There could be a color-conversion when files are transfered to the stick.

IAC, here's what I'd suggest to try to resolve this. First fix your ambient light in stone, and make it bright enough so that phosphor lag on the CRT isn't distracting. Then adjust the white level (Picture) on your TV so the RGB=127 grey bars on the memory stick look like a perfectly neutral grey to your eye, with a density exactly between the white and the black bars. As you make this contrast adjustment also insure that the black level (Brightness) is set correctly on the TV as well. Black level will drift on the Sonys as you change the white level/contrast.

Once you're satisfied that the RGB=127 grey is as neutral as it can be, and your black level is also correctly set, then watch some good DVDs, using a player with the same black level as the memory stick (probably 0-IRE). And make sure the player is in its standard picture configuration and applying no add'l enhancement of its own. Here are a few DVDs I'd recommend:

Star Wars ANH
Star Wars AOTC
Star Wars ESB
Underworld
Sky Captain & the World of Tommorrow
Gladiator
Appleseed
An American Werewolf in London
Hulk
Jurassic Park III
Shrek 1 & 2
Chronicles of Riddick
Alien (the 2003 edition)
Titan AE
Ghosts of Mars
The Incredibles

I'm going by memory here, but all of the above seemed to me to have about the same gamma correction. THX mastered DVDs probably have the most consistent gamma correction across the board.

How do they look? (Try to ignore any issues with phosphor lag, internal reflections, etc. and focus on just just the gamma curve of the picture). Do the midtones seem a little overpowering, not bright enough or do they look just right? They should all leave you with the same impression. Either too dark, too bright, or just about right.

If they all look just about right, then the memory stick could perhaps be tweaking the gamma on your JPEG files to approximate the pre-corrected video of other inputs. If they look too dark, then that may mean there's no correction on the memory stick.

[Edited to better reflect the more updated info on gamma in Post #343 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5994372&&#post5994372).]

Another tip that you may or may not have run across yet... The DVI input on some (or maybe all) of these Sony TVs has a different color saturation than the analog inputs. This is something that can be identified using the color decoder tests and fixed by making an adjustment to 2170P-4/SCOL. Raising SCOL 5 units higher for DVI than the analog inputs fixed the problem on my TV. YMMV though.

Since the memory stick is also a digital input it could have a different saturation than the analog inputs as well. Comparing the color decoder patterns on a component input to the memory stick should confirm or deny this.

FWIW, the procedures I used to identify and make this correction for DVI are in post #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2328501&&#post2328501) and post #19 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2354438&&#post2354438) of this other thread. A similar approach may also work for the memory stick.

DO NOT SIMPLY TRANSCRIBE THE VALUES SHOWN IN THESE POSTS FOR YOUR OWN TV! I'm using a different signal path and color offsets for my DVI input than most TVs, so the values shown will probably not work exactly right for your TV. If you follow the procedures outlined though, you should be able to determine the correct adjustments for your own TV. (Use any other info in the links above entirely at your own peril btw.)

ADU, in response to several of your points:
<KP>Neither is even close to white or off-white.
<ADU>Hmm... if that's really the case, then I suspect the memory stick may indeed have it's own built-in correction, to conform your computer-created JPEGs more closely to 1.25-corrected video.
To clarify, I know what "50%" gray looks like in a digital image, and I mean what I see for a *digital brightness* of 50%, not what a light-meter would measure as 50% of white (minus-one f-stop). Your 50% = 127 gray bar = a tone of gray on my calibrated computer monitor = the same tone on the TV thru memory stick, gamma set to 2.2

Now I have run a test where I have created an orthodox DVD with still images precisely derived from my existing test patters, including the "current-gamma" pattern. When I play that on my DVD player, adjusting for a correct black level, the measured gamma is -- guess what? -- 2.2. I.e. there seems to be no change in gamma between MS patterns and one fed in thru the DVD player.

Again, unless there is definite proof, and the above seems not to show any, I have to believe that there is no manipulation of gamma among the different analog inputs, MS, and ATSC tuner. (HDMI not tested.) As far as I can tell, the gamma exhibited by this set is totally orthodox for all inputs, being about 2.45 native, and it can be decreased by increasing the settings for GAMR, GAMG, and GAMB above 0. Further hand-wringing isn't going to reveal anything new. The display of known DVD movies is totally satisfactory, even extraordinary! I have seen Shrek-1, Monsters, Inc, and several other on your list, plus the restaurant scene on DVE. All are gorgeous! Digital photos whose characteristics I know well from having prepared them are gorgeous. What more can I say? The tones are correctly rendered.

Rather than agonize over whether a certain source or broadcast has used this ot that compensation, I adjust things until the picture is as good as it's going to be, and then I enjoy the show. I admit to being quite anal about these things, but, Jeez, at some point one has to shoot the technician and get on with the show! (or take a pill, have a glass of wine, whatever works . . .)
I've found pretty good consistency among DVDs though. Ie, the well-authored ones all seem to work more or less correctly with about the same gamma adjustment on the TV.My experience, too. Generally, I'm impressed.
If I could figure out what's happening with the gamma on the memory stick, then I could probably use that to establish a baseline gamma for DVDs. If RGB=127 looks like a 50% neutral grey on the memory stick, then either you've got the contrast set exceptionally low on your TV, or the memory stick is applying a correction to the JPEG files to darken them up a bit for better viewing on a TV, similar to the undercorrection used in video cameras.No, no! I think you are reading too much into this, and that your definition of 50% isn't the same as mine. The above recent test appears to show that MS is a decent baseline for my DVD-thru-component connection, and I now think it is good for HD broadcast, too, given the way the set is wired.
JPEG and other computer-based images will look unnaturally bright on a TV screen unless there's a correction applied to them somewhere along line.Well, but that would be the overall correction of gamma = 2.2, which matches pretty much a Windows computer. Jpegs on MS appear quite normal, straight from the camera (sRGB colorspace, gamma = 2.2).
There could be a color-conversion when files are transfered to the stick.Not any more than if the image is stored on a hard drive. The digital file is just *stored,* not modified.
Since the memory stick is also a digital input it could have a different saturation than the analog inputs as well. Comparing the color decoder patterns on a component input to the memory stick should confirm or deny this.One of the MS patterns I use is the same as the DVE color-setup: six basic color blocks at 75% surrounded by 75% gray. The MS calibration is *slightly* different from one done for DVD -- but the latter adds an entire DVD player into the mix. HD broadcast seem to have a slight red push when I use the DVD's color setup, and perfect when I use the MS color setup. I'm trusting the MS setup for now. (I calibrated "Default" for MS, and "Monitor" for DVD.) The color level (saturation) and Hue are identical to the DVD player.

I have no way of evaluating the HDMI input at this time and it currently plays no part in my use of the TV. So I'm saving your comments on this for the future reference, thanks!

Not that this will necessarily have any bearing on anything, but I used the gamma pattern from post #29 (actually I created my own pattern using the same values with a little larger swatches, attached at the bottom) to check the gamma on my DVI port, and it seems pretty close to 2.2 (This is in Pro picture mode with GAMMA at 0 in the service menu). The 2.27 swatch is probably closest, though maybe a hair brighter, so it's probably in the neighborhood of 2.25 or 2.26. (2.44 is noticeably brighter and not really in the ballpark.)

One thing I noticed while doing some more reading on gamma is the black level can very easily skew the results. If it's set too high it'll produce a lower gamma reading, and if it's set to low it'll produce a higher reading. [Edit: white level and black level "enhancements" on the TV could similarly skew the results.]

FWIW, the way I set black level for my DVI input is by comparing an RGB=0 image to a 0-voltage area of the screen. This is pretty easy on my TV because its configured with a "fixed height" aspect ratio smaller than the screen. Ie, the raster is scaled down in the vertical axis to a 2.35AR (not somethin I'd really recommend to others, especially those concerned about burn-in.) So there's 0-voltage above and below the picture. This black level adjustment was done in the normal ambient light used for viewing btw, not with all the lights turned off.

To clarify, I know what "50%" gray looks like in a digital image, and I mean what I see for a *digital brightness* of 50%, not what a light-meter would measure as 50% of white (minus-one f-stop). Your 50% = 127 gray bar = a tone of gray on my calibrated computer monitor = the same tone on the TV thru memory stick, gamma set to 2.2I guess I'm not referring to "digital brightness" then. What I'm really interested in is the perceived brightness. Ie, whether it looks like a neutral grey to your eye on the TV (forgettin how it looks on a computer monitor), and appears to have a brightness/density exactly midway between the black and white. RGB=127 probably shouldn't look neutral on a TV unless it's gamma is too high (ie midtones too dark), or contrast is too low, or the gamma of that input is being manipulated in some special way. On a computer monitor, in brighter ambient light... yes, then it should look neutral. On a TV though I think it should look lighter. Or at least I think that's pretty much what the whole simultaneous contrast/surround effect/undercorrection thing is all about. Maybe I shouldn't have brought this up though, because it just seems to be creating unnecessary confusion.Now I have run a test where I have created an orthodox DVD with still images precisely derived from my existing test patters, including the "current-gamma" pattern. When I play that on my DVD player, adjusting for a correct black level, the measured gamma is -- guess what? -- 2.2. I.e. there seems to be no change in gamma between MS patterns and one fed in thru the DVD player.Cool. I wish it hadn't been necessary to adjust black level in between, but I'm guessin that was needed because the DVD player or input had a different black level than the memory stick. IAC, if they give a similar gamma reading, that would probably indicate that there is no special gamma correction occurring on the memory stick.

Before we go any further, I wanna stop and say thanks, Ken. I dunno if this discussion has helped anyone else, but it has definitely helped to resolve a few issues in my mind, thanks in part to your input on some of my hand-wringing. :)

I think you've been doin a great job here.

Your not the only one he helped, thanks to ken my PQ now looks comparable to the sony's with the super fine pitch tube, and i only have the 34hs420 version:)

Okay I found an article which hopefully will shed a bit more light on some of this gamma stuff we've been discussing.

http://www.w3.org/TR/PNG-GammaAppendix.html

[Edit: The above link (as well as some of Poynton's links) show the typical CRT gamma as "2.5", when it probably should have been "2.2". This more current version of the above document (http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/spec/1.2/PNG-GammaAppendix.html) from Post #343 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5994372&&#post5994372) shows more recent and probably more correct values and info than the w3.org link above.]

As this link explains, the objective of the newer ~.5 correction is to produce a picture on your TV with a darker final screen gamma to normalize it for viewing in a "dim surround". (Pretty much what I've been tryin to say all along.)

If maximum depth and contrast for nighttime viewing is your goal (and it may not be in everyone's case), then you generally wouldn't want to brighten the midtones on the TV via the gamma controls in the service menu, because that would tend to undo some of the depth/contrast enhancement in the source.

Recent Sonys (some of them anyway) could be a slightly special case though, as we've discussed, because they seem to have problems at the lower end of the color spectrum due to greater phosphor persistence, etc. So there might (and this is mostly conjecture on my part) possibly be some advantage in dialing up the midtones via the gamma controls in the service menu so the image is more watchable in brighter ambient light.

This is pretty much what the Standard and Vivid modes on the TV are already designed to do. Though I acknowledge that they could also incorporate some other less-desirable enhancements as well.

Always adjust Brightness last btw to insure proper black levels after making any changes to ambient light, contrast, etc.

Phew...I think I need a martini now. :)

[Edited to reflect the newer gamma info in Post #343 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5994372&&#post5994372).]

Phew...I think I need a martini now. :)
There, there. Everything is really going to turn out OK. Just rest . . . rest . . . :-)

All calm now? OK. I read the article, and it is very informative for technogeeks like us, but, Dude, I think you are way-obsessing over this gamma thing. If we were calibrating a multi-million-dollar broadcast studio so folks couldn't complain about *our* standards, I would spend more time at this. But I am watching material from the real world of commercial broadcast and DVD, and the end result I want is for it to be displayed so as to bring me the greatest pleasure in my evening-illuminated living room.

This requires that I have *some* control over things like gamma, and I am delighted that this TV allows you to set up a couple of the "picture modes" to differ only in gamma. I get to pick. Again, last night, watching a documentary on the History Channel about Wake Island, I reached desperately for the remote so I could dial in all the gamma I had -- 3.0 would have not been out of line with this ultra-flat video! But that would have made a following HD program, say Lost or CSI/Miami, look hopelessly dark. And so I grab for the remote again . . .

Without some control, there's no hope. It's what *looks right,* and I think you can really get there with this set by tweaking a bit for each program!

Damn, I need some more Excedrin !!!

13.1 - PRECISION FOCUSING: ACCESSING THE INTERNAL FOCUS CONTROL

A precision focus adjustment just isn’t possible without making sure the internal focus adjustment is set correctly. Mine wasn’t! If the back were off the set, this would be easy. But getting the back off is clumsy and has its damage hazards (breaking the CRT neck being one!) . . . and it turns out not to be necessary.

The main Focus control is a simple cross-slotted screwdriver-adjustable plastic knob at the bottom-right-rear of the set, on the side of the high-voltage transformer, about 4” inside the right-rear corner. It aims horizontally, not to the right or rear, but toward the corner at about 45º. All one needs to do is insert a slender screwdriver thru a small hole in the side of the case to get to it.

(0) Assumptions. You are working on a Sony 36XS955 or a set with similar construction. SInce they use many identical chassis parts and circuit boards, this group likely includes all 4:3 sets and widescreens in the XS955 and XBR960 series, and also the 34XBR910. See (2) below to visually confirm if your set complies. Sony does not reinvent this HV-Focus subsystem for each set, and these instructions may apply to a wide range of sets, including the HS420 and HS510 series as well. Bottom line: If you can’t see the Focus knob thru the slots, don’t go drilling anywhere! If it’s in the predicted location, have at it. (The cooling slots may be different.)

(1) You’ll need: a 1/8 - 5/32” drill bit and a variable-speed drill; a flashlight; and an appropriate screwdriver — 1/8” flat blade with 1/8” shaft of 5” or longer. This longish, skinny screwdriver is not easily available at your usual Home Depot. Try an electronics-supply store (not Radio Shack), and look for Xcelite #R186V, quite common. Use the longer #R188V in a pinch. A plastic GC #8195 or 8987 will work, too, but the obnoxious springiness of the plastic shaft makes fine adjustments sort of sloppy. You’ll also need to get your face up against this part of the cabinet, so position the set appropriately.

(2) Examine the attached JPEG images, and survey the landscape for yourself before starting. We are working on the right side, near the rear corner, about 2-3/4” above the very bottom of the case. Fig.1 shows the working area. If you shine a flashlight in and to the left at position #2 and peer closely thru the slots in area #1, you’ll see the gray plastic hulk of the HV transformer and the Focus control as the *upper* dark-gray adjustment knob, as pictured in Fig.2. The bottom knob (“Screen”) is sealed with white glop and should NOT be touched. Sony’s drawing of the whole transformer is in Fig.3.

(3) Carefully drill a hole thru the right end of the 8th open slot from the bottom, as shown in Fig.1, location #2. Don’t go straight in, but aim the drill about 45º from the right, aiming to the left and slightly down. There’s nothing just inside the case to wreck, so don’t be paranoid. But go slow and stop when the drill just goes through maybe 1/2”. Then continue to operate the drill a bit in-place and move the drill around to enlarge the hole slightly to give the screwdriver some wiggle room. (If the drill bit were chucked into a handle of some sort, this could even be done by hand, as the plastic is soft and you are starting in an existing slot.)

(4) While peering into the case thru the slots in area #1 and shining the light in nearby, insert the screwdriver thru the hole and in about 4”, connecting with the end of the slotted knob. (If the shaft binds in the hole, remove it and ream out the hole a bit with the drill.) Insert the blade into one of the slots, and you’re in! Your screwdriver has now become the Focus control! You can leave it this way while you work on the set, but push slightly inward when you grab it or it’ll fall out of the knob. Don’t worry about electric sparks and such from inside; there’s nothing metal or electrically charged nearby. Just don’t be hamfisted about this, and work sensibly. It’s really amazingly easy and is a valuable asset to getting the TV adjusted *right.*

13.2 - PRECISION FOCUSING: A RECOMMENDED PROCEDURE

This procedure follows Sony's method fairly closely because it works very well and takes into account Sony's wisdom about its own products. In particular, focusing is a balancing act between optimizing fine mid-brightness detail and avoiding blooming (bloating) of the scanning spot in very bright areas. Attached are recommended patterns that can be loaded via memory stick, played from a DVD player as JPEG-on-CD, or displayed via HDMI from a computer. Important: You want to get the vertical pixel-count right: 1080 for MS and maybe computer, and 480 for JPEG (or maybe computer - experiment). I don't know a single pattern on DVE that will work as well as the MS patterns for the fine-pitch CRTs in the XS and XBR sets. HS420 sets and the like will have to use what you can find or use the DVD/CD images.

We're going to work simultaneously with service-mode codes and with the physical Focus control. We'll be using a green-only display to eliminate any confusion possibly caused by misconvergence.

PREPARATION:

(1) With power OFF, insert the screwdriver into the Focus control knob, as described in the first part of this article. Leave it in place. Unless you have very long arms, a small hand-mirror will be a helpful asset. If you knock the screwdriver out of whack while working with it, just get the flashlight and reinsert it. No need to power down and lose whatever you’ve done up to that point.

(2) Load the test images onto a memory stick if you have that feature, or onto other media, and verify that they display properly. (You can try the patterns on DVE or Avia for white crosshatch and focus. Watch out: I note some of the patterns on DVE are NOT sharp as recorded!)

(3) Put the TV into service mode. Go to 2170D-4 and WRITE DOWN the existing settings for #0-8, QPAM thru DQP.

(4) Display the “CrosshatchPlusDots” pattern. Set Pro picture mode, Sharpness = 15, Picture = 40, ClearEdge OFF, and adjust Brightness for a very slight glow to the black background (i.e. a normal black level). Go to 2170P-2/#1 RGBS, and set it to 2 for a green display. Use the pattern “PlugePlusExtremeGray” to help with black level, if necessary.

THE METHOD:

Dynamic focusing of the beam apparently uses two mechanisms. Sony would have us completely disable the “Dynamic Focus (DF)” mechanism by shorting a pair of contacts on the main deflection board, and then adjust the Dynamic Quadrapole (DQ) settings; but we can't do that. Since the two mechanisms interact almost completely, compensating for each other, we are going to set DF according to suggested defaults from the manual, and proceed with Dynamic Quadrapole Focus adjustments.

(1) Look at the figure “Table1_DQPData” and at the column for your set. If your existing setting for DF is within 5 of what is listed, leave it alone. Otherwise, set it to the listed number (40 or 36). You can reconsider this later, if need be.

(2) Display the image “CrosshatchPlusDots” for your set's profile (4:3 or 16:9). Gently grab the Focus-screwdriver, push inward gently, and turn it all the way to the left (counter-clockwise) until it stops. Brace yourself! The display is now completely blurred. Adjust 2170D-4 #8, DQP until vertical line widths at equal distances from center are balanced. I.e. the 8th line to the right of center should be equal in width to the 8th line to the left. You should also note that the dots should look like what is shown in the figure “DotShapes.” The goal is to achieve good left-right symmetry. (See Note #5, below.)

(3) Turn the screwdriver-Focus control to the right (clockwise) until the screen is approximately focused again. Display the pattern “FocusMatrix” for your set. Go to 2170D-4 #3 QPDC, and set it to 31. Adjust the screwdriver Focus adjustment for sharpest focus in the *center* of the screen. Turn the control back and forth a bit to see what it does. You'll be choosing a compromise between the black-cloverleaf-on-white and its reverse. When you think you have it just right, stop. (See Note #1.)

(4) Now look at the screen center, and adjust 2170P-4 #3 QPDC for an even better focus. Again, you can increase QPDC and decrease it until you are satisfied - it's not a very sensitive adjustment.

That's the fundamental whole-screen adjustment. Now let's fine-tune the rest of the screen.

(5) Look at the top-most focus pattern and adjust #4 QPDV to see if you can improve on the focus up there. You may end up with QPDV = 63 (max) and it's still not perfect, but them's the breaks! Also check out both top and bottom, and use #5 QPDP (a top/bottom balance adjustment) to make them look about the same. You can keep diddling back and forth until you've got it as good as it gets.

(6) Look at the focus patterns at the middle of the left and right edges of the screen, and adjust #0 QPAM for best focus and #2 QPAP for best balance between left and right. (It's a miracle that the beam is focused at all at these extremes, so don't expect the same clarity as the center!)

(7) Check out the extreme corners, and adjust #1 QPAV for best focus. Just do the best you can.

(8) WRITE the settings (press Mute, then Enter). You should write the settings on paper, too. Depending on what source you used for the pattern, you have to transfer your settings once. According to Sony, there are *two* separate dynamic-focus settings (a) for “1080Vcomp/480Vcomp,” which are the vertically compressed modes for 4:3 sets, and (b) “Others.” While your new settings are still on-screen, you should see if you can find a video source that causes *different* values to appear in 2170D-4. If so, change them to match what you've written down, and WRITE. I can't predict how this will go for sets other than 4:3. But this will cover all bases.

PAUSE FOR A BREATHER. You're done . . . at least in theory. But you can go back through these steps any time. (I would write down what you get each time.) You can also set 2170P-2 #1 RGBS to 7 to get full color back to check out real program material.

Here is an overview of what you've done, now that you've seen the result:

The goal was to minimize the effects of dynamic focusing at the screen center first, then defocus and balance the beam width with DQP. Then you (a) focused the center of the screen with the Focus control and (b) perfected the center focus with the QPDC setting. The rest of the settings just balanced the focus over the extremes of this wide-scan screen; just don't expect the beam (the dots) to be as round or sharp as they are in the center.

WHEN DONE, gently pull out the screwdriver without tweaking the control. Normal color will be restored when you leave service mode by powering off and on again.

NOTES:

(1) The tiny cloverleaf focus pattern incorporates the best of dots and of vertical and horizontal lines into one shape. You can easily see how you have to choose a focus setting halfway between sharpest horizontal and sharpest vertical features. It's not my invention. I just made up the screen presentations.

(2) You can revisit the focus process using a brighter setting of the Picture control or a dimmer one, depending on what you wish to optimize. Fair warning: optimizing less-bright focus may result in ugly blooming on nearly-white subjects, swallowing up black detail and bloating white text out of shape. I used the Picture = 40 setting, and I'm very pleased. Feel free to experiment with whatever Picture setting works best for you.

(3) You can leave steps 5-7 alone and just re-tweak overall focus (Focus control + QPDC). The balance of all the sides and corners shouldn't change. But make judgments based only on the *center* of the screen.

(4) You can use a high-quality HD broadcast of good mixed brightness and contrast, and touch up the Focus control. If you can't use a memory-stick image, this may be the best way to finalize things. Use that hand-mirror!

(5) If you get a large value for DQP, say over 40, try setting DF a bit higher and redoing DQP. These two settings shouldn't differ by a great deal. But don't obsess - it's a very coarse adjustment, and a whole range of DF-DQP combinations are likely satisfactory. They should probably be within 5-8 of each other. I ended up with DF = 36 and DQP = 37.

IMPORTANT: Please call my atention to any mistakes you find here. A personal message is best, and I’ll react very promptly.

I am working with a Sony XBR 960. Here are (what I suspect) are very basic questions.

1) My service menu looks different than the menu enumerated in the Excel spreadsheet that is an attachment earlier in this thread. My service menu looks like it does not have as many items. Also - many of the defaults are different. Is this to be expected?

2) In general - I can follow/match the pattern of categories and items laid out in the Excel spreadsheet. But I can't figure out how the different picture modes (e.g. Pro, Vivid, etc) are reflected. For example - I understand that RYR (in 2170P-4) has a different value for each picture mode - but I don't really see how that is reflected in the menu - I only see one value. I am clearly missing something.

3) I am particularly interested in the SBRT setting. I have had a really issue with the black level - shadows are way to deep. Can someone please help me understand - intuitively - what this setting does. How is it different than simply jacking up the brightness setting in the standard menu.

4) Am I risking my warranty by messing with the SM?

Thanks in advance for any help here. This is a great thread.

Yes kentech, how different is SBRT from just raising the black level in the user menu?

I'm curious because i'm doing what you said and put brightness at 31 and set sbrt to 31 and UBOF to 0.

My SBRT was originally at 15, way too low, but now that i set SBRT to what you said and i can now clearly see the 3 stripes in the pluge patterns.

Now that i did that i have to now lower brightness from the middle setting instead of higher brightness to see the 3 stripes.

It seems that if i set SBRT to 15 and brightness about 6 or 8 nothces up from the middle setting it looks the same as using SBRT at 31 and UBOF at 0 and adjusting brightness downwords now from 31.

Is ther any difference doing whatever vice or versa?

My SBRT was originally at 15, way too low, but now that i set SBRT to what you said and i can now clearly see the 3 stripes in the pluge patterns.

Now that i did that i have to now lower brightness from the middle setting instead of higher brightness to see the 3 stripes.

It seems that if i set SBRT to 15 and brightness about 6 or 8 nothces up from the middle setting it looks the same as using SBRT at 31 and UBOF at 0 and adjusting brightness downwords now from 31.
Try setting the SBRT a few notches above the 15, say 20 and see how it looks.
the goal here is to get the brightness set with the user control at midpoint (31). Try different values until it is right.

Ok, ijust wanted to see if their was a difference that's all either using SBRT for brightness or raising the brightness control.

It seems that if i set SBRT to 15 and brightness about 6 or 8 nothces up from the middle setting it looks the same as using SBRT at 31 and UBOF at 0 and adjusting brightness downwords now from 31.

Is ther any difference doing whatever vice or versa?
I may have mentioned that I ended up with SBRT = 31, but that may not be the setting for your TV. From my article:

"Set your Brightness and Picture sliders with the remote to 31 (mid-scale). Use Digital Video Essentials or Avia DVD, and use a video-PLUGE pattern or “video black” on the disk as a decent black standard. Change the code 2170P-1 #5-SBRT to set video-black as the barest screen glow. For PLUGE, follow the DVD's instructions."

So I agree with Glen, but with these refinements:

(1) Observed brightness = SBRT setting + Brightness slider + approx. 2X the 2170P-3/UBOF setting. They all add together and compensate for each other, with one notch of UBOF being equivalent to 2 notches of SBRT and Brightness.

(2) Use your highest black-level, reliable, non-broadcast input for calibrating SBRT, say a good DVD player. Set Brightness slider to 31, UBOF for that input to 0, and adjust SBRT so that only *one* bar shows on the PLUGE pattern: The darkest bar and the background should blend together.

(3) Tweak the other inputs and the average broadcast to match using UBOF. If the DVD player turns out to be darker than other inputs, then knock UBOF up 2 or 3 notches, reduce SBRT by 4-6, and try again to balance the other sources with UBOF. The idea is to get the Brightness = 31 to be a suitable starting point for any video source.

(4) See service-data chart to see what input/scan rates different UBOF settings correspond to. E.g. all V1-V3 inputs are the same for a given scan rate (say, 480i vs 480p), and the same is true for V5 and V6. Note that HD-1080 and HD-720 from the ATSC tuner have *different* UBOF settings.

So let me get this straight...You want me to adjust SBRT untill i see only ONE bar?

1) I thought i was supposed to adjust it untill the blacker than black bar is not visible and the middle bar is visible and the inner bar is bearly visible correct?

2) Should'nt i adjust so that i can only see the middle bar and barely see the most inner bar?

3) Also is UBOF like you said recommended off?

4) I thought the purpose of adjusting SBRT was to give the brightness controll more range is it not?So you just leave it in the middle and ajust SBRT as your brightness correct?

5) Also for gamma, should i just leave the factory settings alone for PRO mode.

6) And when adjusting the color, do i leave it in the middle and instead of using the color filters like you said, which items in the service menu should i use to adjust how much of each individual color is put on the screen besides RYR-GYB.

7) You talked about just using the color guns instead of the filters, after using each color gun do i press muting and then enter to save the guns the way they were before or do i just press the number key for all color guns on?


Thanks for your time.

So let me get this straight...You want me to adjust SBRT untill i see only ONE bar?I apologize for probably misleading you. I've forgotten how many bars there are, total. No, you reduce SBRT until the *darkest* bar blends with the background for the room lighting you'll be using for viewing. (I use more than one PLUGE pattern.)
1) I thought i was supposed to adjust it untill the blacker than black bar is not visible and the middle bar is visible and the inner bar is bearly visible correct?Yep, I think you have it correct. But it's that darkest bar that should just disappear no matter how many other bars there are.
3) Also is UBOF like you said recommended off?If you do that for all inputs, you'll be missing out on the ability to balance the black levels among the inputs. UBOF (User Brightness OFfset) is just another black-level adjustment, like SBRT, but it is *video mode* and *input* dependent. See appropriate data chart.
4) I thought the purpose of adjusting SBRT was to give the brightness controll more range is it not?So you just leave it in the middle and ajust SBRT as your brightness correct?Not *range,* but an *offset.* SBRT determines exactly what Brightness setting results in a correct black level, on average. Then you have to tweak it for each program.
5) Also for gamma, should i just leave the factory settings alone for PRO mode.I would. And that gives you maximum gamma and no other brightness/contrast compensations, too.
6) And when adjusting the color, do i leave it in the middle and instead of using the color filters like you said, which items in the service menu should i use to adjust how much of each individual color is put on the screen besides RYR-GYB.Set the Color and Hue sliders to the middle, and then make the adjustments. But don't confuse white/grayscale balance with color decoding. Read my article #03. Note that getting white balance and grayscale just right has *nothing* to do with the color-decoding controls in RYR-GYB. That's a color-"push" issue, and it's handled separately. DVE's calibration pattern works perfedtly fpr a DVD player for Color (amount), Hue, and eliminating color push. Getting grayscale and white right is another whole matter.

I don't remember if I covered this in any article, but the base-settings for Color and Hue are also adjusted in 2170P-3/UCOF and UHOC, and, of course, they are input and video-scan dependent. Allows you to compensate for differences among, say, your cable box, VCR, and DVD player.

To summarize:

(1) Play a calibration DVD in your player. I'll assume DVE.

(2) Select Pro mode, and set Brightness, Color, and Hue sliders to their mid-points.

(3) Display a PLUGE pattern, and adjust SBRT for correct black level. (Ignore UBOF for now.) WRITE the settings.

(4) Display the color-calibration pattern -- those 75% color blocks against 75% gray.

(5) Set 2170P2/RGBS to 1 (blue) and adjust 2170P-3/UCOF for correct color amount and UHOF for correct hue. WRITE the settings.

(6) Then set 2170P-2/RGBS to 4 (red) and adjust 2170P-4/RYR and RYB for no red push. Set RGBS to 2 (green) and adjust GYR and GYB for no green push. Repeat steps (5) and (6) until perfect. (Balance the brightness of all the color blocks for blue, red, and green guns.) WRITE the settings.
7) You talked about just using the color guns instead of the filters, after using each color gun do i press muting and then enter to save the guns the way they were before or do i just press the number key for all color guns on?You don't have to. The color-gun settings of 2170P-2/RGBS are never memorized no matter what you do. It always returns to 7 (all colors) when you recycle power on the TV.

Ok, thank you for your time

I'll report back on my progress.

Matt~

p.s. after doing those settings for the component input, should i connect my dvd player to the composite inputs and calibrate them too?In other words that's how you calibrate the other inputs correct?

Again thank you for your input, i'm trying to get the best PQ possible!

I think you will want to cal composite first, using the directions from KENTECH for setting SBRT, etc. Then component, adjusting UCOF and UBOF as needed.
If you find that you've run out of UBOF (max) on while cal'ing component, you will have to compromise and raise SBRT, off course starting all over again with composite.

I have the KV-34HS420 and I followed your advice through the pdf files about coloring. I got:

480p h and v to look much better,
menus (cable box) in 480p and 1080i to look good,
1080i v to look good with very little overscan (no more logos cut off).

BUT

I can not get 1080i h to give me little overscan. I lose about two inches off each side. What happens is this: I can get either the left or right side to be perfect, but then the other side develops what I call a "wraparound" on it.
Can anyone tell me how to eliminate this? Or maybe can you post or e-mail your settings and I can try them out.

Thanks.

I would leave your overscan alone, it's there for a reason, to hide any faults in the picture that should'nt be there.

Instead of adjusting the size of the picture try adjust the position of the picture instead.

I bet you noticed that now that you have lowered overscan the screen bowes in kind of right?

Mine did the same when i lowered overscan so i just put it back to where it was and the problem was gone.I also noticed that letterboxed material such as movies with 2:35:1 or higher aspect ratios showed larger black bars on the yop and bottom causing the picture to be smaller when i lowered overscan before.

I own the same set as you, and my advice is to just leave the overscan alone, it's there for a reason.Mine was pretty dead on out of the box at 5% so i left it alone.You don't want to go lower than 5% or else you will be seeing things at the corners of the screen that don't belong.

Also Kentech:

I adjusted SBRT to 25,UBOF to 0 and with brightness in the middle like you said and this seems to be the perfect black level.It's perfectly black.Before i had it at 26 and 27 and although i could see the middle bar just barely the image was'nt a perfect black.

Question when setting black level i should barely see the middle bar in the pluge test correct?And if i have black level correct there should be no light in the darkness right?

Just want to make sure i don't have it too low.

I adjusted SBRT to 25,UBOF to 0 and with brightness in the middle like you said and this seems to be the perfect black level.It's perfectly black.Before i had it at 26 and 27 and although i could see the middle bar just barely the image was'nt a perfect black.

Question when setting black level i should barely see the middle bar in the pluge test correct?And if i have black level correct there should be no light in the darkness right?

Just want to make sure i don't have it too low.
ARRGGHH! Let me say clearly: THERE IS NO ONE PERFECT BLACK LEVEL. No matter what you set as "the" black level, you will be diddling it for individual programs and DVDs. The whole purpose for intially setting a "reasonable" black level for the Brightness slider at its midpoint of 31 is for *convenience.* Obsessing over this is a complete waste of your time!

If, for example, you watched Friday-night PBS awfulvideo and had screwed your Brightness and Color both down to about 25, then turned the set off and went to bed, the next evening you have messed-up settings for, say, the History channel, VH1, or an ABC movie. So you return everything *first* to 31, and *then* adjust the Color and Brightness for this new program. That's it! It's no more subtle than that. If your room light is bright, you will likely prefer a little higher black level than if it's dark. For my neck of the woods, HD OTA broadcast is quite consistent, DVD is next-best, but SD cable channels are all over the place! Brightness at midpoint is just a *starting* point.

ok thanks just wanted to make sure, no need to get in a pissy fit:)

ARRGGHH! Let me say clearly: THERE IS NO ONE PERFECT BLACK LEVEL. No matter what you set as "the" black level, you will be diddling it for individual programs and DVDs. The whole purpose for intially settings a "reasonable" black level for the Brightness slider at its midpoint of 31 is for *convenience.* Obsessing over this is a complete waste of your time!

If, for example, you watched Friday-night PBS awfulvideo and had screwed your Brightness and Color both down to about 25, then turned the set off and went to bed, the next evening you have messed-up settings for, say, the History channel, VH1, or an ABC movie. So you return everything *first* to 31, and *then* adjust the Color and Brightness for this new program. That's it! It's no more subtle than that. If your room light is bright, you will likely prefer a little higher black level than if it's dark. For my neck of the woods, HD OTA broadcast is quite consistent, DVD is next-best, but SD cable channels are all over the place! Brightness at midpoint is just a *starting* point.

Personally, I have found a good compromise with black level. DVD's and HD with component look uniform from one dvd to another, same for HD, except noting a few broadcasts look a little dark, Lost, Cold Case and CSI-Miami at times.
SD broadcasts are another story as you have pointed out, however, I have resisted the urge, at the annoyance of my better half, to fiddle with the remote when we are watching together. I get that look, you know.

Let me first say, KENTECH, your dedication to these threads here and at Agoraquest is so beneficial to us. I am a reader, and have soaked up these boards for a few years now learning my little and unimportant hobby. For example, I built a homemade photocell from directions obtained at another forum. Using that knowledge, I, without expensive gadgets, cal'ed my grayscale with a multimeter to a known source, with numbers and equations. But until I read your thread on gamma, it wasn't quite perfect. Now, I am proud to say, with you help, order is restored.

Let's hope a moderator will make this thread a sticky in the near future. ;)

no need to get in a pissy fit:)
Please! With me, it's a *hissy* fit, where one's panties are truly in a knot, not a mere *pissy* fit, where they just feel too tight. :p

It's just that I seem to be writing the same stuff over, and over, and . . .

Hi -

Had a thought -- does anyone know if the kind of color calibration devices used for setting up profiles for digital photo editing can output an actual color temp that would be useful for setting color temp? I read KenTech's article on color temp, that involves fluffly clouds, no green light from leaves, etc - and the chances of my getting those conditions at a time when neither my kids nor spouse want something of me and I have an hour or so free....well, we're looking at 2020 at the soonest. I was thinking of getting an inexpensive product called Profile Mechanic from Digital Light and Color, that includes a sensor to read color output from a monitor - but I don't know if these typically talk directly to the software, or also output a color temp in Kelvin. No response yet from DLC on this.

Anyone done this?

Michael

Michael, you might want to read this thread here on their discussion of "hobbyists" products. http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/706741/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

Product of discussion can be found here.
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=20364893&adid=17654&dcaid=17654

And a simple review.http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/spyder2pro.html#what_is_it

I would think these products would be very similar.

Personally haven't tried it. Recommend to do a little reading first. Good luck.

KenTech, after reading your article the other day I tried several of the items you mentioned with various to little success. I tend to agree with Crochunter (somewhat) on the SYSM setting. I have left mine at 1 for everything except HD content which stayed at 3.
Changing the SYSM setting (with 480p from DVE & AVIA) & (1080i from ESPNHD frozen frame) caused the picture to shift horizontally with minor sharpness changes. SYSM @ 2 is a little coarse and 1 has the best compromise with DVD.
HD 1080i still looks best with a setting of 3 for all modes.
I wonder if since you may have used the memory stick for your images that you may see these differences ??
I still don't understand why the picture moves (left - right) with SYSM setting ???
Also, like Croc I'm keeping VM off with default pro settings on all pic modes (VM=0, VMH=12, VMM=8 & VML=4).
Lastly, I will try your MIDE setting on unused MID5/POP value of 60/61.

Todd

Todd, VM is not off with those settings you posted, if you want it completely off you have to change those four to 0.HD and DVD will loook a lot better with them off.

Todd, VM is not off with those settings you posted, if you want it completely off you have to change those four to 0.HD and DVD will loook a lot better with them off.
No, Croc, this is not how it works. Those four VM settings are what you get *added on* when you choose a strength of the ClearEdge VM feature. If you set ClearEdge to zero, it's zero.

But there may be *other sources* of VM *not related* to those settings in 2170P-3/VM-VML. I describe those in my discussion of settings for image decoding in my article #12, post #41 in this thread. The article and a chart are in the attached PDF file.

In summary, I am speculating, based on how the effect appears, that one of the three settings, 2170P-3 #6-8, SHOF-PROV, seems to add a kind of VM. I prefer the effect OFF, and I recommend that in my article. So if Todd is going to try my MID5 settings for MIDE #60/61, he willl have NO VM in effect when he is using any display mode with ClearEdge VM OFF. None. He can leave VML-VMH alone.

I also believe that the setting of SYSM to 1 adds a considerable coarseness that is as gross as badly-configured VM, in my opinion. The reason for the shift of the video display to the right is because a small delay has been added to the incoming video so a calculated edge-enhancement of some sort can be added to it. It has to be added just *before* the actual edge-event occurs for it to act as an unsharp-mask, and this can be done by delaying the main video and adding the non-delayed enhancement.

And I strongly disagree with the myth that the picture *always* looks better with VM off. If VM is tweaked for a fine, rather than a coarse, effect, and is used in moderation, it provides a valuable image enhancement that cannot be rendered any other way -- such a diddling with sharpening parameters, etc. It's Sony's *default* VM settings that are fairly gross, and the correct application of VM should not be condemned because of that.

I discuss this in article #12, too. 2170P-3 #2-5, VMCR thru VMDL *completely determine* the "look" of VM, just as VMH-VML determine the *amount* available, and I suggested there some settings to try. Bottom line: be open-minded, but if you don't like what it does to the video material *you* are watching, turn CLearEdge off in the user menu! But don't dismiss the use of VM out of hand!

And I strongly disagree with the myth that the picture *always* looks better with VM off. If VM is tweaked for a fine, rather than a coarse, effect, and is used in moderation, it provides a valuable image enhancement that cannot be rendered any other way -- such a diddling with sharpening parameters, etc. It's Sony's *default* VM settings that are fairly gross, and the correct application of VM should not be condemned because of that.

...But don't dismiss the use of VM out of hand!
I heartily agree. I have come to view, pun intended, ClearEdge VM as my friend. Used in moderation, as suggested, this is a true enhancement.

Cheers & Happy 4th to all US participants! :)

Hi KenTech, (or anyone else that may know)

CRT hot spots: Can this be adjusted via the SM?

I tried going over your very useful tips on this thread but I couldn't find anything directly related to this issue.

I have a Sony 30Xs955. I sometimes notice some sort of "hot spotting" issue going on in the middle of the screen when images pan left or right (On light backgrounds) at med to fast speeds. It's basically non existant on still images, dark backgrounds or on very slow pans. I know this is could sometimes happen on Projection systems (I see this all the time at my local cineplex) but I'm not sure if this can be adjusted on a direct view CRT such as my Sony.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Is this just a common CRT issue like Geometry and Magnetic Interference problems? Can this be tweaked via the service menu or should I just suck it up and stop being so picky? :confused: (I have a feeling if I call in a Tech they would most likely say this is within "spec" since the abnormality is somewhat faint)

Thanks,

-RC

CRT hot spots: Can this be adjusted via the SM?
. . . or should I just suck it up and stop being so picky?
No. Yes.

In spite of my own motivation to address hot-spotting, I have never found a solution. The service tech I had out to my home to help with a static-convergence issue simply smiled when I asked about it. (At least he didn't laugh and point!) It apparently *is* inherent in these sets. Some compensation has already been applied, but the very center has a vertically-elongated hot spot on every one of these sets I have seen.

With my own video camera, I have a habit of slow pans on vast scenics, and *that's* where the hot spot really is obvioous. Lots of blue sky, things like that. But I can go through an entire evening of regular TV without noticing it, generally.

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm glad to know that it's not just unique to my set. Now I can finally put my mind at ease until I find something else i want to tweak :D

-RC

Let's just say that a "friend of mine" actually did reset the settings to "factory-newborn" on his 34XBR960. Since everything is totally out of wack, he started writing in the "default" settings, from one of the available charts.

He has now been tweaking for several days, but horisontal lines and the i-guide menues are bend like a hammock and he's really not a happy camper.

Is there any way that a Sony technician can restore the default settings.

[QUOTE=KenTech]No, Croc, this is not how it works. Those four VM settings are what you get *added on* when you choose a strength of the ClearEdge VM feature. If you set ClearEdge to zero, it's zero.

How is it 0 if i see them four like this:

VM:0
VMH:12
VMM:8
VML:4

Does'nt look like it's at 0 to me.

So let me get this straight..if i put clear edge to "OFF" in the user menu, the 4 VM settings will be 0?

How is this when they are at 0,12,8,and 4?

Are you saying it does'nt matter if they are at those numbers or 0 that it is still off?

Or is it the first VM:0 that shuts this off?

I'm confused?

How is it 0 if i see them four like this:

VM:0
VMH:12
VMM:8
VML:4

Does'nt look like it's at 0 to me.
The H, M, and L letters mean that these are the settings for VM (ClearEdge) at the High, Medium, and Low settings *per picture-mode.*. If you have ClearEdge OFF (or None or whatever) in the user menu, those settings of 4, 8, and 12 aren't used.

For example, if you set VMM (M for Medium) to, say, 6 for Movie, 8 for Standard, and 10 for Vivid modes (see data chart), then when you set VM/ClearEdge to Medium, you'll get those amounts, depending on what picture mode you are in. If you set it to 0 for any mode, then even if you set ClearEdge to Medium, it will be OFF because you specified 0 for that setting.

However, if you have ClearEdge set to OFF, it doesn't matter what mode you're in, it's OFF.

Now -- an admission -- I haven't verified that the code "VM" isn't a setting for ClearEdge = OFF. That would make no sense -- that a setting of VM = 3, for instance, gives you an "OFF" setting of 3. "OFF" should be, hello!, OFF. But Sony have done weirder things than that. (I have VM = 0 for all picture modes, just in case.)

So next time I'm diddling in service mode, I think I'll check it out. Not that I'm untrusting or anything . . .

Now -- an admission -- I haven't verified that the code "VM" isn't a setting for ClearEdge = OFF.
Yesterday I performed some experiments with the code 2170P-3 #17/VM to see what effect it has on ClearEdge VM on-screen. It can take values from 0 to 3 and by default is 0 for Pro mode, 1 for Movie, and 3 for Standard and Vivid. I used revealing MS test patterns to attampt to determine its effect. Bottom line: I cannot determine what it does! It's easy to see on-screen how the amount of applied VM varies with changes in VMH-VML. But altering the VM code while either a lot of VM is visible or none is visible has no effect that I can see.

It may be a threshold or limiter of some sort -- a nonlinear effect that doesn't show up in my tests. But I'm at a loss to explain it, so I leave the VM code set to 0 for all modes. (If I don't understand it, I don't want it.)

14 - A SERVICE-MODE BUG; THE DVE PLASTIC VIEWING FILTERS

I have reported previously that I found that the memory-stick mode had a different color-decoding matrix from the other modes. (That’s what’s set with 2170P-4/RYR thru GYB.) I came up with one set of values for my DVD player using the Digital Video Essentials (DVE) disk and another using a precisely similar pattern on a MS. Since MS and the ATSC (HD) tuner share the same signal path, I thought perhaps that the MS settings might be more accurate for HD reception.

I was astounded to learn that those differences between MS color and the other modes *evaporate* when you leave service mode! I recently was playing around with the color filters supplied with the DVE DVD just to see how closely they corresponded to the more-perfect approach of using one color gun at a time with 2170P-2 #1/RGBS. I was using the MS pattern and my custom “Monitor” matrix for it, and I observed a large green deficiency (opposite of “push.” Pull? Suck?) I changed to the other color matrix I had set up with DVE for “Default,” and the problem disappeared. What?? So I went into service mode to revisit the calibration of the MS mode — and came up with new settings that weren’t either the original I had developed nor the ones for “Default.” Huh?

I confirmed with the plastic filters that I was spot-on with the new MS adjustments, and left service mode. When looking again at the same pattern, it had changed — back to something dead-on with my Default setting but green-deficient with the freshly-calibrated setting. (Note: I also interrupted the AC-power-plug connection when the set was off to make sure nothing was sneaking by a mere remote power-off-on cycle. This *can* happen: there’s one instance in the AUDIO group I know of.)

All I can say is that this is buggy behavior by any measure. The bottom line seems to be this: You can’t rely on color-matrix calibration with a memory-stick source, no matter how accurate the pattern is.

I have tried something else, too: I duplicated my dead-accurate calibration pattern, using a TIF master (not JPG), onto a DVD+RW as a “slide.” The DVD standard allows this; it’s an orthodox method. Using that, I got calibrated settings for RYR-GYB *very* close to what I get with DVE:

RYR-RYB-GYR-GYB: with DVE = 14-15-7-5; with DVD “slide” = 13-15-5-3.

I have made one Default and the other Monitor, and it’s hard to prefer one over the other, they are so similar. The second one has a tiny bit more red/orange and green “push.” HD, SD, and DVD all look gorgeous with either one.

I really wish my local stations broadcast at some time in the week a SMPTE or similar pattern so I could see what the color-calibration is like through the tuners.

Notes:

(1) DVE’s red and green plastic color filters are not exactly the same as running the color guns one at a time, and the blue is so dark as to be nearly useless — besides, it “leaks” red. The red and green are okay for quickie evaluations, but I trust the color-gun method completely. With the filters, I think you might get errors of 1 point (of 15) for a couple of values.

(2) All of my video sources, especially broadcast, vary a bit in their color *encoding* by favoring some colors over others. Agonizing over 1-point variations in this calibration may be a time-waster, but at least major DVDs seem to be very consistent.

(3) Image compression can change color very slightly: When converting the dead-accurate TIF image I developed in Photoshop to highest-quality JPEG, the RGB color/brightness values drifted off by a couple of points (in 256) in different directions. I don’t yet know what MPEG2 compression does to color for DVD-video, and I don’t yet understand what compression is used for DVD “slides” and what its effect is on color. To split hairs: A TIF image is perfect, but I don’t know a way of displaying it perfectly without that compression step.

Thanks for all the valuable info.

Good posts Ken. I, too, have noticed the differences in color decoding, but perhaps my fault. It seems on my set, changing any parameter in IDSW ( checking geometry, color decoding, etc for other scan rates) does something "goofy" in respect with my CORRECT color decoder values ( produces lack of green). One minute it's dead on, next, GONE. Will look into it further.

Let me clarify further. I forced a 1080i scan rate using IDSW to check color decoding for HD. Good to go. But when I returned back to 480p, green was way off. Cycled the set, 480p is back to normal. I guess nothing to get sweaty about after all.

I would like to get a copy of the KD-34XBR960 service manual. Does anyone have the part number? Is it available on a disc in PDF?

When last I checked...Sony service manuals could be ordered from Sony Direct Accessories and Parts Center (http://servicesales.sel.sony.com/web/contact_us.jsp) via their 800 number.

Once you have a manual, there's also a 900 number that can be called for Non-Authorized Service Tech Support. It costs $3/min, with a $20 minimum for each call. According to Sony, you must have a service manual in front of you to use this service.

Although the service manuals do contain some basic instructions on geometry, convergence, menu navigation and detailed schematics of the circuit boards, the descriptions on many/most service items is slim to none, hence the need for the help line (and forums like AVS). The manual is really more of a data/reference list. An official Sony service center might be another possible source of info.

Although the RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB are global in that they can only store a single value for all modes, the calibration of these controls can be effected by other input & signal sensitive controls for hue and color in the service menu. If the different picture modes (Vivid, Standard, Movie, Pro) don't have the same Color and Hue settings in the User menu, then the calibration will be thrown off when you switch between these modes as well.

There also appear to be some HD color offset controls at CXA2151/CBGN, CRGN, YGN, which may allow you to better align the color decoding of HD signals to match SD signals. If you're noticing an obvious and consistent difference between 480i signals and 480p/1080i signals via all inputs, and it isn't correctable via some other color or hue control, then these CXA2151 controls may allow you to fix it.

As I mentioned earlier (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5756262&&#post5756262) though, there may also be a little variation between inputs too, particularly between the analog (component/CVYC/RF) versus digital inputs (DVI/HDMI/MS/Firewire), which should also be easily correctable via some of the sub-color (and if necessary sub-hue) controls in the SM.

[Edited to reflect more recent info on the CXA2151 controls.]

The difference in calibration between the DVE color filters and RGBS gun controls is also something which has been known for some time. I don't know enough about the paradigm used in DVE or AVIA calibration to really comment on this intelligently though. FWIW, I went with the RGBS approach as well, just because it was more convenient (and cheaper than buying disks and filters). [Edit: Pls see info much later in the thread re MTRX and how it may effect color decoder adjustments, especially when making them in the SM with the RGBS settings.]

Re color shift with JPEG and MPEG... This is something I've noticed as well. In addition to compression-based changes, some DVD/MPEG authoring programs may also automatically clip or adjust the saturation of some colors so they're NTSC compliant. So as you say, these formats may not be the most reliable for such discrete color tweaking.

In addition to compression-based changes, some DVD/MPEG authoring programs may also automatically clip or adjust the saturation of some colors so they're NTSC compliant.
This would be in accord with keeping the colors within the NTSC colorspace. But the DVE and my similar patterns are made from exact colors at 75% brightness (in hue-saturation-brightness terms), and so they're well within the colorspace and not likely to be truncated/clipped.

Although the RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB are global in that they can only store a single value for all modes, the calibration of these controls can be effected by other input & signal sensitive controls for hue and color in the service menu.
Thanks for the reminder! This would especially include the 2170P-3 settings for #14 and 15, UCOF and UHOF. I think I'd better reexamine what my settings are for those on the DVD/component input. (I think they match the RF and HD tuner settings.)There also appear to be some 1080i color offsets controls at CXA2151/CBGN, CRGN, YGN, which may allow you to better align the color decoding of 33.75khz 1080i signals with 31.5khz-480p/960 signals. If you're noticing an obvious and consistent difference between 480p/960i signals and 1080i signals via all inputs (or the IDSW setting), and it isn't correctable via some other color or hue control, then these CXA2151 controls may allow you to fix it.This is great information, thanks! Experimentation now follows. Where did you find this out?

Just an educated guess, Ken. It's one of the tweaks that came up during the whole 1080i scrolling bar (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190083) business awhile ago though. And I know those CXA2151 controls will effect your RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB results either with 1080i or 480p signals. Can't remember exactly which.There, there. Everything is really going to turn out OK. Just rest . . . rest . . . :-)

All calm now? OK. I read the article, and it is very informative for technogeeks like us, but, Dude, I think you are way-obsessing over this gamma thing. If we were calibrating a multi-million-dollar broadcast studio so folks couldn't complain about *our* standards, I would spend more time at this. But I am watching material from the real world of commercial broadcast and DVD, and the end result I want is for it to be displayed so as to bring me the greatest pleasure in my evening-illuminated living room.

This requires that I have *some* control over things like gamma, and I am delighted that this TV allows you to set up a couple of the "picture modes" to differ only in gamma. I get to pick. Again, last night, watching a documentary on the History Channel about Wake Island, I reached desperately for the remote so I could dial in all the gamma I had -- 3.0 would have not been out of line with this ultra-flat video! But that would have made a following HD program, say Lost or CSI/Miami, look hopelessly dark. And so I grab for the remote again . . .

Without some control, there's no hope. It's what *looks right,* and I think you can really get there with this set by tweaking a bit for each program!I can't really argue with you there. That's one of the reasons I prefer watching most stuff on DVD... because it's so easily tweakable. (If you happen to have an older Sony DVD player like mine btw, then the Memory/Brightness control may well be a gamma control rather than a black level control, which comes in very handy.)

And like I said before, I'm still not certain I understand all this gamma stuff. And after contemplating it some more, my previous certitude re what grey should appear "neutral" on a TV has begun to give way to uncertainty again. So I'm gonna backpeddle a little from some of my previous remarks in Post #130 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5769767&&#post5769767). I think the theories were basically correct there, but some doubts are beginning to creep back in again about the correct grey to use for adjusting gamma for DVDs, etc.

As you and GlenC point out, there still seems to be alot of variation out there. And some video just looks really damn dark. So I'm thinking perhaps I've not properly factored in system gamma, or that some film-based video content may be getting passed through even darker screen gamma that the standards specify. Another possibility is that people are simply ignoring the standards altogether and using whatever gamma they think will result in the kind of image they want. :) IAC, I'll do some more reading and experimenting and if I come up with anything more concrete I'll let you know... maybe in a new thread, so folks here don't have to listen to any more of my hemming and hawing about this. :)

[Edited to better reflect the more updated info on gamma in Post #343 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5994372&&#post5994372).]

Although the RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB are global in that they can only store a single value for all modes, the calibration of these controls can be effected by other input & signal sensitive controls for hue and color in the service menu.Thanks for the reminder! This would especially include the 2170P-3 settings for #14 and 15, UCOF and UHOF. I think I'd better reexamine what my settings are for those on the DVD/component input. (I think they match the RF and HD tuner settings.)And also 2170P-4/SCOL & SHUE (which is what I used to tweak DVI on my TV instead of using the 2170P-3 controls, to save some time).

Film kind of has the “fade to black” thing going. Film based gamma for theater (dark) viewing is a 2.5 gamma curve. More ambient light generates a situation where the gamma is reduced, possibly 2.2 for low light. The main issue here is how fast is the transition from black to gray to white. When the gamma curve is too steep, say, < 2, black levels are tough to achieve and movies may seem washed out in low light scenes. I haven’t even started to experiment with it, but my Denon DVD5900 has a 10 step gamma adjustment. I gather that if your display has a steep curve, t can be corrected for movies. I will have to experiment with this when I get time.

RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB should only be needed globally. It can be used to correct the color of red and green (if you have a color analyzer to measure the colors by their x/y coordinates). Ken, this is one area where your cloudy sky won’t be any help.

I haven’t even started to experiment with it, but my Denon DVD5900 has a 10 step gamma adjustment. I gather that if your display has a steep curve, t can be corrected for movies. I will have to experiment with this when I get time.Variable gamma adjustments can be your friend. It probably does about the same thing as the "Memory/Brightness" control does on my Sony DVP-NS715P. Instead of changing the DVD's black level, it seems to adjust the brightness of the midtones, which is actually alot more helpful, and exactly what I would expect from a gamma control.

You might look to see if your HD receiver has a gamma control as well. If so, then you might be able to use that to tweak live broadcasts as well, saving you the trouble of diddling with gamma in the TV's service menu.

Using a source-based gamma controls may degrade the color palette a bit, which is probably more noticeable (in the form of banding) if you're trying to brighten the image rather than darken it. This will probably be more difficult to spot on a CRT than it would be on a FPD though.Film based gamma for theater (dark) viewing is a 2.5 gamma curve.Maybe we're referring to different things here, but I think motion-picture film and slides have more in the neighborhood of a 1.5 viewing gamma. This link (http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/spec/1.2/PNG-GammaAppendix.html) probably gives a better explanation of what I mean by this.

Although the RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB are global in that they can only store a single value for all modes, the calibration of these controls can be effected by other input & signal sensitive controls for hue and color in the service menu. If the different picture modes (Vivid, Standard, Movie, Pro) don't have the same Color and Hue settings in the User menu, then the calibration will be thrown off when you switch between these modes as well.

There also appear to be some 1080i color offset controls at CXA2151/CBGN, CRGN, YGN, which may allow you to better align the color decoding of 33.75khz-1080i signals to match 31.5khz-480p/960i signals. If you're noticing an obvious and consistent difference between 480p/960i signals and 1080i signals via all inputs (or the IDSW setting), and it isn't correctable via some other color or hue control, then these CXA2151 controls may allow you to fix it.

As I mentioned earlier (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5756262&&#post5756262) though, there may also be a little variation between inputs too, particularly between the analog (component/CVYC/RF) versus digital inputs (DVI/HDMI/MS/Firewire), which should also be easily correctable via some of the sub-color (and if necessary sub-hue) controls in the SM.

Thanks ADU, will look into that tonight when I get home. Funny thing is, with the same input, forcing the various scan rates (full, 960i, 1080i) color decoder "looks" dead on for all rates, it's just when I return to 480p it's off again. Like I said earlier, cycling the set returns the decoder to normal for 480p. Go figure.

Keep this thing going guys, I certainly enjoy learning. ;)

I guess I'm still not quite clear what you mean by "cycling the set".

One thing I'll add though is that 2170P-3 UCOF (and UHOF) do appear to store different values for 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i for each input. IOW, the 2170P-3 commands are both input and signal sensitive. So some signal-dependent tweaking of the color decoders can probably be done there too (if you have the patience for that).

I guess I'm still not quite clear what you mean by "cycling the set".

One thing I'll add though is that 2170P-3 UCOF (and UHOF) do appear to store different values for 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i for each input. IOW, the 2170P-3 commands are both input and signal sensitive. So some signal-dependent tweaking of the color decoders can probably be done there too (if you have the patience for that).
"Cycling" generally means re-cycling power. In other words, turn the set off and then on. Usually the term used is "cycling power."

Cheers! ;)

And also 2170P-4/SCOL & SHUE (which is what I used to tweak DVI on my TV instead of using the 2170P-3 controls, to save some time).
Indeed there are several places where Color, Hue, and other menu-slider offsets can be tweaked. It's important to be aware of them all:

(1) 2170P-4 #4-6/SPIO-SHUO appear to be global offsets for Picture, Color, and Hue, with values of 0-15. The service manual specifies defaults of 4-9-7, but my set came with 7-7-7 (the midpoints). If my Hue or Color sliders were off on all inputs, meaning for me that 31 is not the calibrated setting for *any* input, I would start here. I have left them alone. They show only one column in the service-data chart.

(2) 2170P-4 #1-3, SPIC-SHUE appear to be the same as (1) but are specific to 5 broad categories: DRC-processed signals, component inputs (V5/6), HDMI input, MS/ATSC (memory stick and digital tuner), or something called "passthrough." So these codes have 5 columns each in the data chart. They are pretty wide categories.

(3) 2170P-3 #13-15, UBOF-UHOF, for Brightness (black level), Color, and Hue. These are specific to each combination of video input *and* input-scan rate, 17 columns in the chart. Here is where you can balance these three parameters among your signal sources. I balance Brightness here, but I keep the Color and Hue values identical for DVD, MS, and all broadcast sources -- so a calibration from a DVD or MS source is valid for broadcast inputs. My VCRs are then tweaked to make them look like the calibrated sources.

None of these are directly part of color-matrix (decoding) calibration. The two parameters that affect its accuracy, however, must be set properly first: Color (amount) and Hue (tint, color phase). Brightness and Picture have no direct effect on color-decoding calibration.

It should be obvious that there are more than one way to "tune" the Color, Hue, Brightness, and even Picture parameters among the large number of unput/video combinations. A good strategy would be to accomplish calibration for the broadest categories of offsets first (#1, above), then do the finicky input-dependent diddling last (#3).

RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB should only be needed globally. It can be used to correct the color of red and green (if you have a color analyzer to measure the colors by their x/y coordinates). Ken, this is one area where your cloudy sky won’t be any help.
Well, no, of course not. The color-drive and cutoff setup should be performed with a completely black-and-white signal, and turning down the Color slider to "Min" accomplishes this. The "cloudy sky" standard is valuable only in setting color temperature of white.

And like I said before, I'm still not certain I understand all this gamma stuff. And after contemplating it some more, my previous certitude re what grey should appear neutral on a TV has begun to give way to uncertainty again.
Without minimizing at all the intellectual and engineering aspects of this gamma thing that give *some* of us an inordinate amount of pleasure, I really believe that pleasing the eye is paramount: If I have set black level and Picture (max white) correctly, and it *still* looks dark, I want a lower gamma. How it looks is all that matters.

Having said that, I do want to know what the gamma is for my display so I can occasionally make judgements about the video source. But for entertainment material, I want that gamma control -- and all we can do with these sets is custom-configure a couple of the Picture modes for that purpose. I use Pro and Movie for gammas of approx 2.45 (GAMR,G,B = 0) and 2.2 (GAMR,G,B = 3), and one of those generaly works fine. Splitting hairs further seems unproductive. Even though I originally set up Standard with gamma = 2.0, I never use it.

I would substitute in your quote above the word "flexibility" for "uncertainty." Your words "should appear neutral" likely have no practical meaning in a world of nonstandard entertainment video -- although DVD releases of redent films seem, indeed, to be remarkably well-calibrated and consistent. A real pleasure!

15 - THE COLOR OF BLACK: OTHER POSSIBLE COLOR ADJUSTMENTS

Aside from all of the color-decoding (RYR-GYB), display (cutoff and drive), and Hue- and Color-offset controls that need calibration, there are a couple of less-obvious adjustments that can be quite a bit off as factory-supplied.

The most important of these more-obscure adjustments are 2170P-1 #2-4/YOF, CBOF, and CROF. There are different settings saved for 13 video classes: anything that uses DRC, plus component, HDMI, and MS/ATSC inputs for each of four scan rates (480i and -p, 720p, 1080i).

As an orientation, consider the probable color-processing/display chain. (1) Digital MS and ATSC (digital tuner) signals have their colors decoded according to the digital standards. The color from analog sources enters the chain at this point, when chosen. (2) Color is then subjected to the RYR-GYB color matrix, where red and green are pushed (or not) by robbing from other colors. Think zero-sum game, here. Tint/Hue is adjustable here, too. (3) Then comes the Color control slider, like a “volume control” for color. (4) Following this is the derivation of the drive voltages for the three guns in the CRT: RGB cutoff and RGB drive in 2170P-1. (5) The result is displayed by the CRT. You can see why the CRT-voltage setup is fundamental and must be set up first.

So what are these other red and blue adjustments? It appears as if CBOF and CROF are blue and red offsets added to the color output for the several color decoders in part (1) of the signal chain, as proposed above. You can see a misadjustment, for example, when tuning from one HD channel to another: Before the picture locks in, there is a background glow if you crank Brightness up a bit, and - holy moly! - it might have *color* if you crank Color up to max. Oops! Obviously not a consequence of bad setup for the CRT in part (4); otherwise the Color control wouldn't affect it.

My set's “black” glow was quite yellowish for HD and reddish-pink for the DVE-DVD showing “video black.” I separately adjusted CBOF and CROF for blue and red, respectively, for 1080i ATSC, 720p ATSC, 480i ATSC, and DVD/component sources. Values were adjusted by amounts of 2-15, turns out, and the black-color vanished. I never chose to adjust YOF (luminance offset). You have to WRITE the settings after each change; otherwise the instant you change channels, the settings are lost.

**************
ADU mentioned some potential color adjustments in group CXA2171 #3-5/CBGN, CRGN, YGN. I experimented with these, and they appear to be “gain” controls, plain and simple, for blue and red (relative to green), and overall luminance. It doesn't seem that the adjustments are as sophisticated as the color-matrix controls of RYR-GYB, and, as ADU suggests, they seem not to apply to analog material. (I haven't tested SD-digital or MS yet.) I note that the skin tones of my digital channels match very well their analog equivalents when simulcast. Absent an HD color-pattern generator or a high-quality broadcast pattern, I can't see how else to adjust this.

The service manual's block diagram identifies the CXA2171 as the “YUV Switch.” It takes inputs from HDMI, ATSC, and component video, selects one, and sends it on to the rest of the color-processing chain. These adjustments may be tweaks for a specific chip and would be have to be readjusted if it were repaired. Since I don't see a problem that needs correction, I'm leaving my settings in this group alone for now.

I think we’re running out of color adjustments (whew!). Anyone know of others (not connected with TwinView windows or closed-captioning)?

I have been adjusting geometry extensively lately, and one of the problems is that my ATSC-HD signal is rolling on some channels and a grey static patters on others.

Does anyone know which setting I need to correct?

What is the service code to a KV-32FS120 please? Thanks.

Not a clue, Tmansdc. However, if there aren't any other threads on that model, and noone else knows, then you could try contacting Sony, per the info in Post #165 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5853154&&#post5853154).

It seems on my set, changing any parameter in IDSW ( checking geometry, color decoding, etc for other scan rates) does something "goofy" in respect with my CORRECT color decoder values ( produces lack of green). One minute it's dead on, next, GONE. Will look into it further.

Let me clarify further. I forced a 1080i scan rate using IDSW to check color decoding for HD. Good to go. But when I returned back to 480p, green was way off. Cycled the set, 480p is back to normal. I guess nothing to get sweaty about after all.Funny thing is, with the same input, forcing the various scan rates (full, 960i, 1080i) color decoder "looks" dead on for all rates, it's just when I return to 480p it's off again. Like I said earlier, cycling the set returns the decoder to normal for 480p. Go figure."Cycling" generally means re-cycling power. In other words, turn the set off and then on. Usually the term used is "cycling power."I guess I'm still not entirely clear on the exact sequence of events here.

In general though, what I would probably recommend is adjusting the 2170P-4/RYR, RYB, GYR, GYB color decoders for 480i. Then if these color decoders look noticeably off with 480p/1080i, you could try to fix the 480p/1080i by using either CXA2151/CBGN, CRGN, YGN, or using the 2170P-3/UCOF sub-color controls.

The RYR, RYB, GYR, GYB color decoders cannot store two distinct values for 480i and 480p/1080i (on my TV anyway). So if there's a visible discrepancy between the two scanrates, a different set of controls must be used to correct 480p/1080i to match the 480i.

The only way I know to do that offhand is via the CXA2151/CBGN, CRGN, YGN offsets or the 2170P-3/UCOF sub-color (and if necessary 2170P-3/UHOF sub-hue) controls.

If you have a newer model TV than mine, then the CBGN, CRGN, YGN offsets may, as Ken points out, be found in the CXA2171 group instead of CXA2151. (It sounds like this chip/circuit may have been upgraded in some TVs newer than my 34XBR800.)

If you don't notice much difference between the color decoders for 480i and 480p/1080i, or aren't that picky, then just ignore all this.

*If you notice the change only when you switch to a different video input, then it may just be an input-related issue rather than a signal/scanrate-related issue, which is something that can generally be fixed simply by tweaking the color saturation on the inputs using either the 2170P-3/UCOF or 2170P-4/SCOL controls, as mentioned on the previous page."Cycling" generally means re-cycling power. In other words, turn the set off and then on. Usually the term used is "cycling power."Also, let the set warm up a bit before trying to make such discrete color decoder adjustments.ADU mentioned some potential color adjustments in group CXA2171 #3-5/CBGN, CRGN, YGN. I experimented with these, and they appear to be “gain” controls, plain and simple, for blue and red (relative to green), and overall luminance... Absent an HD color-pattern generator or a high-quality broadcast pattern, I can't see how else to adjust this.As mentioned above, these CBGN, CRGN, YGN offsets may only come in handy if you discover a noticeable discrepancy between 480i and 480p/1080i when adjusting your RYR, RYB, GYR, GYB color decoders.

Again, if after adjusting RYR, RYB, GYR, GYB for 480i, you discover that these color decoder settings don't work quite so well for 480p/1080i, you can probably use CBGN, CRGN, YGN (or maybe the 2170P-3/UCOF control) to correct the latter. Just use the same pattern of color bars that you did for the 480i color decoder adjustment, and tweak CBGN, CRGN, and YGN as necessary until the pattern comes back into line for the red, green, and blue guns at 480p/1080i (using 2170P-2/RGBS or the DVE filters to switch between the different color guns). That's how I'd probably go about it.

(Note: If you have an XBR960 or above, then the Advanced Video-- Default and Monitor Color Axes may give you another way of handling color decoder discrepancies between different signals/scanrates. See Posts #189 and #190 below for more.)

[Edited to reflect more recent info on the CXA2151 controls. Please see the info on the MTRX control later in the thread as well, since that will also effect these adjustments.]

I worked on a XBR960 yesterday. Once the color decoder was adjusted using RYR and RYB to balance White, Yellow, Magenta and Red, then using GYR and GYB to balance White, Yellow, Cyan and Green, it was good for all inputs we tested, input 7, input 5 and ATSC for 480i, 480p, 720p(ATSC) and 1080i.

The gray scale was done first on input 1 at 480i, then, CBOF and CROF were adjusted in video 5 and video 7 to achieve the correct gray scale for each input. After the white balance calibration, a re-check of the color decoder resulted in accurate decoding in all inputs.

My initial comment, “RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB should only be needed globally. It can be used to correct the color of red and green (if you have a color analyzer to measure the colors by their x/y coordinates)” was not correct, while they correct the color decoding, as mentioned above, there is no change in the actual color of Red or Green. The NTSC coordinates for Red are x .335 y .340, this XBR measured x .328 y .330, slightly off in the plus blue direction.

Just another article on gamma here (http://www.sencore.com/newsletter/June04/Gamma.htm)

Cool. Thanks for the link, Glen.

Just out of curiosity, do you take your color readings with all three RGB guns active?

Cool. Thanks for the link, Glen.

Just out of curiosity, do you take your color readings with all three RGB guns active?
Which color readings?

I do Grayscale/White Balance with all guns active and only after Brightness, Picture/Contrast, Color and Hue are properly set. The color decoder should have no effect on grayscale. After white is set, Brightness and Contrast will need to be readjusted. (I did not take a color reading of red with all guns active)

I calibrate/adjust the decoder with the individual guns when available, it can eliminate errors in the color filters. I have 5+ different filter sets and all are slightly different. I use my Sony Broadcast Video Monitor to determine which filters are acceptable to use. With the XBR, you can input a SMPTE or other color decoder test pattern (DVD and signal generator), turn on blue only and adjust Color and Hue for each input. Then you can adjust the Red and Green portion of the color decoder for Default or Monitor color axis with red only and green only. The decoder settings are usually pretty close in the Monitor mode.

Which color readings?Good question! Not sure about that, but I think you've just told me more or less what I wanted to know.I do Grayscale/White Balance with all guns active and only after Brightness, Picture/Contrast, Color and Hue are properly set.Interesting.The color decoder should have no effect on grayscale.Hmm... I guess I sort of look at it the other way round since I'm adjusting grey scale by eye. Which is why I try to get all decoder-related adjustments locked down as well as possible on my TV first before attempting grey scale.I calibrate/adjust the decoder with the individual guns when available, it can eliminate errors in the color filters.Also interesting.I have 5+ different filter sets and all are slightly different. I use my Sony Broadcast Video Monitor to determine which filters are acceptable to use.If you don't mind me askin, which did you use for the XBR960, filters or the RGBS service menu control to isolate the red, green and blue guns?The decoder settings are usually pretty close in the Monitor mode.Now you lost me again. Are you referring to the "Pro" picture mode on the Sonys, or somethin else? Cuz on my 34XBR800 the color decoder values can't be changed for the different picture modes (Vivid, Standard, Movie, Pro). They all share one set of RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB color decoder values (though there are other color and temperature variations applied to them elsewhere.)

If you don't mind me askin, which did you use for the XBR960, filters or the RGBS service menu control to isolate the red, green and blue guns?
I use the isolated colors on the XBR960. Any time I can accurately eliminate the filters, I go that way. On my Mitsubishi, I adjust the colors then go into the service mode, isolate the colors and see what changes are needed, exit SM, adjust, back to SM and on and on…. Can I actually see the difference, no, but I know it is calibrated/adjusted right, and that is my goal.

Now you lost me again. Are you referring to the "Pro" picture mode on the Sonys, or somethin else? Cuz on my TV you can't change the color decoder values for the different picture modes (Vivid, Standard, Movie, Pro). They all share one set of RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB color decoder values (though there are color and temperature variations applied to them elsewhere.) No, the XBR960 has a “Monitor” setting in the “Advanced Video”, “Color Axis” menu. However, when the decoder is properly set, it shouldn’t matter which mode you are in. This is just an option if one cannot or doesn’t know how to adjust the color decoder. If for some reason you need two decoder settings, it can be done here because the XBR960 has two memories for RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB.

Huh... no such feature on the 34XBR800. So folks with a 960 (or above?) can just switch to the "Monitor" Color Axis, and their color decoders at least should be a bit more in the ballpark without tweaking 'em in the SM?

...Or perhaps if it isn't too difficult to toggle between the Default & Monitor Color Axis, that might offer another (albeit a bit clumsier) method of compensating for any potential difference in color decoding between 480i and HD signals. (Just thinking out loud here.)

[Edited to reflect more recent info on the CXA2151 controls.]

Is there a difference in the grey scales between the Default and Monitor Color Axes, or is it strictly the color decoders that differ between them?

Is there a difference in the grey scales between the Default and Monitor Color Axes, or is it strictly the color decoders that differ between them?
Strictly the color decoder. You can assign *any* setting of RYR-GYB to, say, "Monitor," and set different values for "Default." The 2170P-1 "Cutoff" and "Drive" adjustments for gray scale are totally independent and are global, i.e. for all inputs and modes. They can be calibrated with Color all the way off ("Min").

Note that the minor red and blue equalizing tweaks available in 2170P-1 #3 and 4/CBOF and CROF add to whatever the Cutoff adjustments are. See my article #15.

Thanks for clarifying Ken. If/when you get a chance I wonder if you might post the values you're using for the RGB Drives/Cutoffs. I know these probably won't translate from one TV to another, but I'm just sort of curious to compare with someone else's settings, especially since you also used the Neutral Color Temp. Here's what mine are currently.

RDRV=31
GDRV=15
BDRV=21
RCUT=31
GCUT=15
BCUT=21

I have been adjusting geometry extensively lately, and one of the problems is that my ATSC-HD signal is rolling on some channels and a grey static patters on others.

Does anyone know which setting I need to correct?I think I'd be afraid to suggest anything on this for fear of making matters even worse. If this began after you started working in the SM, then it might be worth the $20 to contact Sony's Non-authorized Service Support line. Or simply to have the unit serviced. It could also be an issue with your tuner, which is something I'd know nothing about since my TV doesn't have one.

The only items in the SM that come to mind for me are possibly 2170D-3/VDST, or possibly some of the settings in CXA2151 (which may be CXA2171 on the XBR960), like maybe VTC, HTC, HWID, HSEP or HMSK. I don't know exactly what any of these do though, or whether it's safe to fiddle with them. So you're on your own on that.

I suppose some of the horizontal and vertical raster adjustments in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 might put things out of sync as well. Another possible category to look at might be 2170D-5. I don't know what most of the settings in there do though either. And fiddling with stuff you don't know about could as I say make matters even worse, which is why I'd probably suggest contacting Sony instead. Sorry I can't be more help on this one.

The major issue with the level of Drive and Cut is with the levels you want Brightness and Contrast controls set. When you reduce the Cut, Brightness settings will increase. When you increase Drive, Contrast/Picture settings will decrease. This is helpful on TVs that cannot adjust the midpoint of the user controls. For example, if Brightness was properly set at 25, then if you were to decrease the Cut settings, the brightness would need to be increased and it could be adjusted so Brightness was properly set at 31 or what ever the target or midpoint might be.

Yes, all TVs will be slightly different and room conditions can also affect settings. I have a few settings from various calibrations:

Each of the three resulted in Gray scale very close to 6500K.
RDRV= 49, 34, 45
GDRV= 39, 26, 32
BDRV= 34, 29, 22
RCUT= 42, 15, 32
GCUT= 23, 15, 22
BCUT= 16, 21, 23

I think I'd be afraid to suggest anything on this for fear of making matters even worse. If this began after you started working in the SM, then it might be worth the $20 to contact Sony's Non-authorized Service Support line. Or simply to have the unit serviced. It could also be an issue with your tuner, which is something I'd know nothing about since my TV doesn't have one.

The only items in the SM that come to mind for me are possibly 2170D-3/VDST, or possibly some of the settings in CXA2151 (which may be CXA2171 on the XBR960), like maybe VTC, HTC, HWID, HSEP or HMSK. I don't know exactly what any of these do though, or whether it's safe to fiddle with them. So you're on your own on that.

I suppose some of the horizontal and vertical raster adjustments in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 might put things out of sync as well. Another possible category to look at might be 2170D-5. I don't know what most of the settings in there do though either. And fiddling with stuff you don't know about could as I say make matters even worse, which is why I'd probably suggest contacting Sony instead. Sorry I can't be more help on this one.

Actually I believe it is the CXA2171 FIXS setting for ATSC 720p/1080i needs to be set at 2.

I really have no idea, so I'll happily defer to your opinion on this.

I really have no idea, so I'll happily defer to your opinion on this.

Thanks ADU and GLENC - CXA2171 FIXS did the trick.

Another question:

As a result of my extensive geometry corrections, the menues that are displayed when pressing "display" are off. Does any of you know which of the MID settings include the geometry settings for this menu.

As a result of my extensive geometry corrections, the menues that are displayed when pressing "display" are off. Does any of you know which of the MID settings include the geometry settings for this menu.
The original Excel-spreadsheet version of the service data describes some of the auxiliary-displays and windows with codes appearing in the MID1 thru MID3 groups.

Some of the abbreviations are Index, COM, Favorites, Twin-Left, Twin-Right, etc. The last two characters of the codes are VP and HP for Vertical Position and Horizontal Position, and VS and HS apparently mean vertical and horizontal size, but it's hard to guess the first two characters: SDVP and SDHP are listed as being for the Favorites window. I don't know what "Index" means -- the memory-stick window?

I suggest you check out the service-data chart for that model. For the MID_ codes, column 3 seems to have some cryptic but useful identifications: SDHP = s_disp_hpos, DHPW = d_h_pwidth, and MDHP = m_disp_hpos, for example. Well, it's better than nothing!

You could do worse than diddle the vaues for every "-HP" or "-VP" code to see which jiggles the menus you're concerned with. MID1 #0 and 1/DHPH and DVPH are listed as "COM--Horizontal (Vertical) Position," for what it's worth.

Please post your experience with these!

If/when you get a chance I wonder if you might post the values you're using for the RGB Drives/Cutoffs.
SBRT = 31 (with Brightness slider set to 31)
R,G,BDRV = 41-26-21
R,G,BCUT = 32-14-16

In 2170P-3, the black-level offsets (UBOF) look like this, per input:
RF = 4, V1 (a JVC VCR) = 2, V5 (DVD player) = 0, HD tuner = 5.

I used the Drive values to guarantee an adequate "Picture" brightness for normal evening viewing of SD analog-cable broadcast with the Picture slider set to 31. The settings are for Neutral and approx 6500K. I have set Warm to +2 red and -2 blue, and Cool the reverse (with 31 being the "zero"-point of those offsets).

Thanks, Ken.

I guess I should have exercised the search tool a little before asking about those values, because I see now that you already posted some of them elsewhere in thread. Though it looks like the drive/cutoff values have changed a hair since then. Are you still using 2170P-1 YOF=7, CBOF=44, and CROF=47 for the memory stick, and adding a bit of blue to the midtones with GAMB per Post #30 as well?

Are you still using 2170P-1 YOF=7, CBOF=44, and CROF=47 for the memory stick, and adding a bit of blue to the midtones with GAMB per Post #30 as well?Hah! You caught me! Yes, the Obsessive Diddler has changed a few things.

I got a little smarter and tried to resolve the yellow-midtone issue *without* a different gamma for the blue gun. (The process reminds me of adjusting the intermediate-frequency coils on an old FM tuner -- you think you have one adjusted, then another one needs touching up.) My use of a higher blue gamma was a crutch, it turns out, and I have now gotten it perfectly adjusted without that. Fair warning to all!

I mentioned in another post how the color-decoder settings for MS can be fouled up by simply *being* in service mode, and I have come to realize that *one* adjustment really works for MS and video inputs. (RYR thru GYB are now set to 13-15-5-3.) [CORRECTED to 14-15-7-5 on 7/13. Sorry. Misread my own notes.]

Having recalibrated grayscale, I revisited 2170P-1/CBOF and CROF. Black for the RF tuner @ 480i seemed spot-on, so I checked out HD @ 720p and 1080i, ATSC SD, and my DVD input (V5/component). Made some small adjustments. I left YOF at defaults in all cases. So the YOF-CBOF-CROF sequences are now:

1080p and 720p = 7-52-49 (much higher CBOF)
480i Digital = 15-28-25 (lower CBOF and CROF)
Component/V5 for DVD = 15-33-25 (lower CBOF and CROF)
The memory stick apparently follows the 1080i setting.

A grumble: My lovely, expensive JVC SR-VS30 DV+SVHS deck has a noticable pink hue shift for all material, and it's a bear to compensate for. In 2170P-3 I set its input (V1/S-video) to UHOF = 3, and I still have to dial in a 2G Hue shift in the user menu. Calibration method: Displayed a precise 75% color-bar pattern at 720 X 480 on my computer and saved it in QuickTime as a zero-duration DV video file. Who knew you could do this? Then I sent that via FireWire to my JVC's FW input, and displayed it as a freeze-frame on the TV. Turns out the decoder matrix was perfect, but there was that hue shift. Now I can trust that my DV tapes from our Canon GL-2 video camera are being displayed correctly. (DV tape and FireWire share the same D/A converter.)

I think you will want to cal composite first, using the directions from KENTECH for setting SBRT, etc. Then component, adjusting UCOF and UBOF as needed.
If you find that you've run out of UBOF (max) on while cal'ing component, you will have to compromise and raise SBRT, off course starting all over again with composite.

Thanks for the advice, I think this is better to getting the black level right since if you do it with component inputs first, like i did, the black level on the composite inputs and HDMI input was too high and smokey, yet the black level was good with component.This is when i set SBRT to component first and put UBOF at 0 like kentech said.

So i take it i had SBRT too high, it was at 24,i'm going to lower it now by calibrating composite first as you said.Also if i calibrate composite first should i leave UBOF at the default 2 or turn it 0 when calibrating composite?

if you do it with component inputs first, like i did, the black level on the composite inputs and HDMI input was too high and smokey
Best to begin by doing a quick run-through of your various components' black levels, noting which is the highest. Then begin with *that* one, with UBOF at 0 and adjusting SBRT to get that one right. Then compensate the other inputs as needed by raising UBOF for them.

(UBOF, of course, is common to each input *class,* such as S-video (V1-V3), component (V5, V6) etc., and the input-video mode. If you have two 480i S-video devices that don't agree in black level, you'll have to pick the one to adjust for. I have this problem with two VCRs.)

Hah! You caught me! Yes, the Obsessive Diddler has changed a few things.FWIW, I wasn't tryin to catch nothin. Just interested in what numbers you're plugging in for comparisons sake.

I used a kind of homespun method of adjusting greyscales on my 34xbr800 as well via computer. So it's interesting to see how someone else approaches it. Judging by how Glen responded to your cloud approach, I'm sure my method (which involves various incantations and sacrifices to the HT gods) would probably have him rolling on the floor in agony. :D If it's all right with you though, I'll throw caution to the wind and offer just a few observations on this stuff, which may or may not be worth the cyberspacial parchment they're typed on.

Like you I also chose the Neutral color mode for the exact same reason, because it appeared to have no offsets like the other Temps.

In addition to that, however I also decided to "zero-out" (as it were) 2170P-1 YOF, CBOF, and CROF for my primary input (DVI), because I was concerned that those adjustments might also be contributing to the red and blue bias of the TV. (The color decoders I'm afraid are not the cure to all of Sony's signature color bias.) After calibrating my color decoders, I actually went through all the possible color adjustments for DVI 1080i that I could find, hunting for other potential offenders/contributors to color bias (which is how I also happened to experiment with the CXA2151 offsets). And aside from the grey scale adjustments, YOF, CBOF and CROF were the only ones that looked like potential candidates. The default values on my TV for YOF, CBOF and CROF were 7-44-41, which (everything else being equal) to my mind said-- red and blue push. So I set them to YOF=7, CBOF=31, CROF=31, and for better or worse, have left them there ever since (for 1080i DVI).

The adjunct to this story however is that I'm also using the 1080i that bypasses the DRC/MID circuits... which is why I'm sort of resistant to offering others who may not be using the same signal path much input on this subject... because I can't promise that my approach will work with the regular 1080i signal path due to the add'l processing it receives in the DRC/MID circuits. For the sake of intellectual curiosity, we'll just ignore that though for the rest of this post, and assume it don't... er, doesn't matter.

OK. So I've already done my color decoders. I've Neutralized my Color Temp and the YOF, CBOF, CROF offsets as best I know how. So what's next? Well, grey scales naturellement... which is of course the real nightmare. After reading a couple FAQs about clouds and light meters and trying a few experiments, I decide to take a leap of faith and fashion my own method since I don't have either of those things readily at hand, with the goal of simply trying to elicite the widest and subtlest range of color possible from the tube. Whether that's the same goal as the 6500k and cloud approach, I dunno at this point, but it's all I have. So I forge ahead. (Notice we've now moved into a more present tense for this bit of the flashback. Whether it's present participle, past participle or past imperfect I'm not sure though, as english was never my forte. Anyway...)

Step #1, rather than worrying about using the grey scale to control contrast, I decide instead to begin with normalized values, namely 31 across the board, and to leave the Red Drive and Cutoff at 31, and only adjust the green and blue. This may have been one the suggestions I read somewhere else, like perhaps in the grey scale section around page 6 of the GWII FAQ (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1893485), or not, I don't really remember. Since it seemed to simplify things though, I go with it. Anything that simplifies is good, since I really have no idea what the **** I'm doin anyway. It seems a logical (and perhaps also providencial) way to proceed though.

This brings us to our (or rather, your) current RGB Drive/Cut settings...

41-26-21
32-14-16

...which look very untidy and unsimplified to me because the Red values aren't normalized for 31. So let's try to fix that. My math was never too good either, but if I transpose your values so the Red drive and cutoff is 31, I think that gives us around...

31-16-11
31-13-15

Still not the same as my 31-15-21, 31-15-21... but closer. Blue is still misbehaving, but the red and green relationships are now settling down, and beginning to look more within the margin of error for something being assessed purely by eye.

The first thing I notice when doing my own grey scale adjustments (and just to keep our timeline straight, this is long before your very helpful and informative SM thread came into existence) is that I'm getting very similar values for both my drives and cutoffs for a given color component. So I take another leap of faith (since I've done my best to neutralize the color bias everywhere else I can think to do so) and decide to try entering the same values for both drive and cutoff on each component and then adusting them up and down in tandem like one single control. It's just a dumb linear voltage adjustment I say to myself. And if I were a smart engineer, I probably would have implemented them that way to simplify things. During my reading for example, I ran across some TVs which didn't even have cutoff controls.

To my stunned amazement this tandem approach actually seems to work!... So now I'm like really stoked. I think I've cracked Sony's elusive color code and may actually be able to see colors on their TV that resemble something close to what the original video authors intended. So I proceed with renewed vigor and vitality to conquer my 34XBR800's greyscales...

Looking at your transposed greyscales now (which were also done via the Neutral Temp)...

31-16-11
31-13-15

...I see what seems to be a similar pattern, namely the value for the drive setting is not that different than the cutoff value for that component. They're nowhere near the wild and seemingly random grey scale values I've seen on other people's sets anyway. Again, my math ain't too good, but if you average the drive and cutoff values out (like I would have for my tandem approach), then you get:

31-15-13

Now our reds and greens are both right on the money. And at this point I feel comfortable revealing that I used an entirely different method to adjust my red and green components than yours or Glen's. For one thing, the Color was on (at the color decoder calibrated level). For another, I used a pattern of color bars. Then all I did was go into the SM and disable the blue gun with RGBS, and tweaked GDRV and GCUT together until I got the most distinct looking reds, greens, and most importantly, yellows. Yellows that did not seem to favor either red or green but which were as distinct as possible from them. This got me into the neighborhood of 15, which was then further refined after I looked for color bias in my blacks.

Back to the present... and our TVs still seem to be disagreeing on exactly what blue is. Yours says its around 13 or so, mine says around 21. Maybe our blue guns or phosphors just work differently? That's quite possible. Or maybe the discrepancy lies somewhere else. You're looking at clouds after all, while I'm busying myself (long before the fact) just looking for color differentiation. So I begin to take a closer look at the two methodologies. There must be an error in my approach I figure, so I try setting blue to 13 instead of 21... No-go. Now my whites are lookin too yellow. And other colors seem to overpower my blues. So I look elsewhere for an answer. And a few other possibilities shortly present themselves...

First (I think to myself), Ken's adding blue via his Gamma controls. Which means his greys must be lookin a bit yellowish at 13 too... I dig a little deeper and also find that by his own admission Ken's white reference is actually a bit off the ideal 6500k and probably more in the neighborhood of 6100k... A little more digging and I find Glen's chromaticity chart, which (if I'm reading it correctly) tells me that 6100k has more yellow in it than 6500k. So now I'm beginnin to suspect there's a rat, or a fly somewhere in the ointment, and maybe my 21 setting isn't that nutty after all. Ken may be trying to match a more yellowish reference to begin with (I have no white reference btw, all I'm looking for is maximum color differentiation), and also seems to be trying to compensate for excess yellow with the GAMB control. So now I'm thinkin his 13 is a little low and maybe he needs to add some more blue in there like I got, to bring his somewhat yellowish 6100k more into the neighborhood of "6500k" (whatever that is).

Then I look at his YOF, CBOF, CROF settings, and see he hasn't neutralized these the way I did. Both his red and blue are elevated compared to mine. More blue (and red) being added in. So maybe that's also why he's dialing blue back down via BDRV & BCUT. And the pieces (some of them anyway) seem to be falling into place... And yet I still don't know whether to speak up because this could all just be in my head, and bringing this stuff up might sort of offend some folks, and make people think I've got some kinna ego problem. And for all I know the MS may work differently than DVI (though I secretly sort of doubt that, since they're probably both essentially digital RGB inputs). So I vascillate briefly and then decide to post this message to see if Ken and Glen (who's names I just now notice rhyme) think old ADU is some idiot video savant, or just having some bad hallucinations brought on by the monsoonal SoCal heat. :)

This post dedicated to R.W. and the other southern AVSers who've hopefully made it through another nasty hurricane in one piece somewhere in the redneck Riviera.

KenTech,

A while back you posted some good Memory Stick test patterns for SFP tubes. Do you have any patterns which alternate horizontal and vertical lines by 1 pixel - both in 1440x1080 and 1920x1080?

You could do worse than diddle the vaues for every "-HP" or "-VP" code to see which jiggles the menus you're concerned with. MID1 #0 and 1/DHPH and DVPH are listed as "COM--Horizontal (Vertical) Position," for what it's worth.

Please post your experience with these!


Still searching for the SM settings to control the "display" menu. I found a way to move in x and y positions in the QM menu, but none to control the depth.

I do not know if the QM menu is XBR960 specific, but in the GPTN and PATN there are some great patterns and color swatches. If we just knew resolution and such it would be even greater.

Best to begin by doing a quick run-through of your various components' black levels, noting which is the highest. Then begin with *that* one, with UBOF at 0 and adjusting SBRT to get that one right. Then compensate the other inputs as needed by raising UBOF for them.

(UBOF, of course, is common to each input *class,* such as S-video (V1-V3), component (V5, V6) etc., and the input-video mode. If you have two 480i S-video devices that don't agree in black level, you'll have to pick the one to adjust for. I have this problem with two VCRs.)

Thanks for the advice, today i finally found a happy medium for black level and will leave at that!!!

I adjust ed composite first with UBOF at 0 and SBRT at 20 for all inputs, it seemed to me with the pluge patterns it looked the best and gives a lot of choices for UBOF for the other settings.

Here's what i ended up with:

Video 1-4: UBOF-0

Component1-2: UBOF-3 for 480p and 480i as well as HD 1080i and 720p.

Antenna: UBOF-0

HDMI: UBOF-0

NOw i got Perfect black level with plenty of shadow detail while still being black, that was the goal.

Thanks for making my day! :)

Ken,

A couple other thoughts on this grey scale business, and then I'll shut my yap. :)

Other TVs may be different, but I've notice on my TV that the Gamma controls (GAMR, GAMG, GAMB) do not behave just like a simple midpoint adjustment. They also have a pronounced effect on the black level and/or contrast on each component. Consequently I'd probably be alot more hesitant to try to use them individually to make color corrections on the grey scale, because of the potential variability they might add to the color of blacks (especially given that I treat the grey scale drives and cutoff as a single control). Like I mentioned above, perhaps that's one reason why your Blue drive/cutoff settings ended up lower than mine (because GAMB was driving up the brightness/contrast of Blue elsewhere). And it might also be one of the first culprits I'd suspect in any odd behavior in the color bias of the blacks. Maybe I'm overstating the problem, but it just seems like offsetting color via gamma might add an unnecessary variable that could potentially create other difficulties down the line. (Maybe Glen has a different view on this.)

There's also the potential issue of elevated reds and blues at CROF and CBOF. And I can't help but wonder if that (in combination with some initial misadjustment due to GAMB) could be a possible source of pinkness on some of your inputs.

Re hue and color controls... AFAIK the only thing those should be used for (including the UHOF & UCOF offsets) is to tweak the adjustment of color decoding (primarily blue color decoding). If the color decoder patterns look correct on a given input, then I suspect that tinkering further with hue and color offsets won't help much. This is probably somethin you already know though.

Okay Gents, since we are no longer in TV 101, may I ask your thoughts on setting "Blanking" and "Overscan" ?

I have a "rounded corner" in my lower left that is adjusted out with 5% overscan. Should I keep blanking consistent with overscan ( at 0% overscan) then adjust out to 5% with the sizing controls or does it really matter?

just having some bad hallucinations brought on by the monsoonal SoCal heat. :)

Whare in SoCal?

Let me clear up a few points. I have nothing against DIY projects, my input on gray scale calibration was to inform about the methods and specifications used when someone pays for a calibration and or has the equipment to accurately measure color. Customers deserve the most accurate adjustment the display is capable of.

For DIY calibration, consider an optical comparator. You can use something as simple as a photo gray card (one side is 18% the other is white) and a 6500K light (possibly a 6500K LED key chain flashlight). Display a white field on the TV, from a few feet away from the TV (possibly 6), hold up the card in front of half of the screen and shine the light on it (ambient light will affect the color). The color of the TV screen should match the color of the card.

The XBR960/910 is very capable of achieving a very flat grayscale from 10 IRE to 100 IRE. I have not experimented with the individual R, G & B Gamma adjustments because the Gray scales I have seen were accurate 10 IRE to 100 IRE in steps of 10. If the low end was good and the high end was good and there were errors in the middle, then possible individual gamma adjustment might correct that.

ADU,
You will get in trouble if you try to use numerical relationships in the drives and cuts to achieve a gray scale. If the CRT was perfect there would be no reason for both Drive and Cut adjustments, however being electronic components, far from NASA specs, there are variances in the components resulting in the need for both. If you choose one color for a reference, Green is usually used, then Blue and Red are adjusted to achieve the desired White balance. There are always differences in the Drive/Cut relationships for each color. With white, it is fairly easy for the eye to see if there is too much Red or Green in the white and even at 20 IRE or below, but just how much is needed is difficult. A little too much blue just looks gray, but can be way off from 6500K. Just don’t error towards Green. The color analyzer can see changes in color from just one click (for example from 14 to 15). A change in Cut, will cause a change in Drive, they are totally interactive, but not on a 1 to 1 ratio. An increase in Cut of 2 does not mean you need to change Drive by 2.

Before the acquisition of my test equipment, I did DIY calibrations on my Marquee projector. When I finally got the gray scale where I thought it was good, I was happy. When I got the equipment (guess what my first test display was), I started checking. Well, much to my surprise, it was way off, especially on the low end, below 50 IRE. It was over 10000K and the upper end was better, but around 8000K. Now that it is close to 6500K at both ends, viewing is much more pleasurable and the flesh tones are the best they have ever been. Viewing TV for so many years with 10000K to 12000K gray scales makes the transition to 6500K difficult and it takes time to get use to it.

I've notice on my TV that the Gamma controls (GAMR, GAMG, GAMB) do not behave just like a simple midpoint adjustment. They also have a pronounced effect on the black level and/or contrast on each component.Make sure that GAMS is zero, as well as BLK. With these conditions, my gamma settings seem to affect only the midpoint. GAMS complicates things, as do any settings that dynamically affect luminance response.Consequently I'd probably be alot more hesitant to try to use them individually to make color corrections on the grey scale, because of the potential variability they might add to the color of blacks (especially given that I treat the grey scale drives and cutoff as a single control).A good caution! But I don't think this plagued me, as my black "color" remained the same after making the grayscale corrections with identical gamma settings for the three colors.There's also the potential issue of elevated reds and blues at CROF and CBOF. And I can't help but wonder if that (in combination with some initial misadjustment due to GAMB) could be a possible source of pinkness on some of your inputs.No, those black-tints remained after correcting gamma and grayscale, and they were then corrected. They are listed as *offsets,* not *gains,* and that's the way they seem to behave. Because these offsets add to the ones you are calibrating when doing grayscale, you should do grayscale with Color at Min.Re hue and color controls... AFAIK the only thing those should be used for (including the UHOF & UBOF offsets) is to tweak the adjustment of color decoding (primarily blue color decoding).But Hue and Color are totally different from the decoding matrix, and the sub-settings of UHOF and UCOF exactly mimic the effect of the Hue and Color sliders. "Color" is *amount* of color, and "Hue" is color-phase, rotating the colors thru the circle of red-green-yellow-cyan-blue-indigo-magenta-red, again independent of the decoding matrix. If this weren't true, then the 75% color-bar test pattern would now appear screwed up -- and it doesn't.

(Psst, ADU -- please don't quote my *entire* message, as it bloats the thread! Select just the parts that you're responding to or you need as a reference. ;-) )

Okay Gents, since we are no longer in TV 101, may I ask your thoughts on setting "Blanking" and "Overscan" ?

I have a "rounded corner" in my lower left that is adjusted out with 5% overscan. Should I keep blanking consistent with overscan ( at 0% overscan) then adjust out to 5% with the sizing controls or does it really matter?

I'd just leave it alone, since the overscan is going to cover it up anyways.The overscan is there for a reason.

I did'nt touch overscan at all either accept positioning the picture right.

The default values on my TV for YOF, CBOF and CROF were 7-44-41, which (everything else being equal) to my mind said-- red and blue push. So I set them to YOF=7, CBOF=31, CROF=31, and for better or worse, have left them there ever since (for 1080i DVI).Tackling a few points one at a time . . .

Further experiments on my part confirm that CBOF abd CROF do not contribute "push" at all and are simple offsets for red and blue, designed apparently to compensate for unintended color offsets with the various color decoders. "Push" is much more subtle than that and is really a zero-sum situation: adding red push by decreasing RYR and RYB increases red by "robbing" from or "stretching" adjacent colors on the color-wheel (hard to describe without a diagram). Colors near red are sucked toward red, and red robs from blue. Red wins, but other colors lose. In contrast, a red offset adds a constant amount of red to all displayed colors. Red "drive" adds a percentage of red to all displayed colors.

Beyond that, and out of our control, the exact red produced by the CRT's red phosphor creates a "look" for any TV, and the standard pure red, green, and blue color-coordinates defined for HDTV do *not* agree with any current CRT phosphor set.

Here's a test for setting CBOF and CROF correctly. Find a way to display dark-gray or "black" for a specific input-class. DVD thru component is easy: use DVE's "video black" screen or one of the grayscale ramps. For HD, black is displayed to the left and right of 4:3 material (e.g. commercials) and just before the statiion locks in. Raise the Brightness until "black" is visible as a noticable screen glow. Whatever that "black" looks like should look exactly the same with the Color control set to Min and set to Max. If the color drifts toward blue as Color is increased, CBOF is too high, for example.

Further experiments on my part confirm that CBOF and CROF do not contribute "push" at all and are simple offsets for red and blue I agree

designed apparently to compensate for unintended color offsets with the various color decoders. I disagree, it deals with the White Balance, not the color decoder.

Here's a test for setting CBOF and CROF correctly. Find a way to display dark-gray or "black" for a specific input-class. DVD thru component is easy: use DVE's "video black" screen or one of the grayscale ramps. For HD, black is displayed to the left and right of 4:3 material (e.g. commercials) and just before the statiion locks in. Raise the Brightness until "black" is visible as a noticable screen glow. Whatever that "black" looks like should look exactly the same with the Color control set to Min and set to Max. If the color drifts toward blue as Color is increased, CBOF is too high, for example.I see this a little different. By the book, and this makes sense,
White Balance is to be set in “Neutral” color temp, 480i, Video Input 1, CBOF and CROF both set at 31. WB is set in “Neutral" because R, G & B DRV & CUT change the Neutral Color Temp.Cool and Warm are then set by the R,G & B DOF & COF.
Next, using CBOF and CROF, the White Balance is corrected in each of the other inputs, V5&6, HDMI and MS/ATSC, for each scan rate, 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. This method allows for White Balance calibration for each input and each scan rate. I get more and more impressed with this TV as I learn and understand more of its capabilities.

I disagree, it deals with the White Balance, not the color decoder.Only in the sense that the cutoffs for red, green, and blue "deal with" white balance. A lot of things affect white balance, but that doesn't explain very much nor point the way to an adjustment method.

The CBOF and CROF adjustments occur *before* the Color control, and their effects cannot be seen if Color is at Min (off). A simple experiment easily confirms this. The only thing that makes sense is to adjust the three-color drives and cutoffs with Color at Min so *that* part of the chain is calibrated. Now you can introduce color to the mix, and make further corrections as needed. I'll stick by the method I outlined as one way of doing it without instruments.

Setting "white balance" with a parameter that is affected by the Color slider makes no sense at all! White balance should be a characteristic of the display *independent* of the presence of any color in the video.

The method you say is "by the book" should specify Color to be at Min, and leave CROF and CBOF alone initially. Service-data defaults will do fine. Then follow the steps you listed for the drive and cutuff adjustments. Next, follow my method (using a suitable test generator) to establish what red or blue offset might exist for those inputs, and zero out those offsets with CROF amd CBOF.

You're not *setting* white balance with CBOF and CROF; you are *cancelling* nuisance color offsets introduced somehow before the Color control.

Ken, I know you do not have the color analyzer to test this, but it works. I can actually measure the changes. When you adjust White to 6500K in input 1 (S-Video) with CBOF & CROF set to default 31, then go to say Video 5 and input a 1080i signal with a white field or 480p with a DVD then measure the temp, it probably will not be 6500K as V1/480i is. Using CBOF & CROF, you can fine tune V5/1080i/480p to 6500K. It works, I have done it and my color analyzer can detect differences of 1 or 2 in the settings. With a true white signal input, the “Color” setting should have no effect on the white field. If you do, there are other issues. The only function of the color slider is to set saturation. White levels change by input and scan rate because of the video signal processing in the different circuits based upon different bandwidth signals and processing circuits. The resulting signal/voltage for R, G, & B will/can have slightly different values. Gray scale tracking has already been set with Cut and Drive in V1/480i, now it is only the R, G, & B balances that needs adjusting for the different input options. This is why they only give adjustment for R & B. Once the Color Decoder is set, only saturation and hue need adjusting for the different input devices. This is why a DVD test disk is used with the DVD, an ATSC test generator through the ATSC devices (cable boxed don’t have this option, hopefully access to the HDNET test pattern is an option)……….

but it works. I can actually measure the changes.
You *could* do it that way, but the methodology is fundamentally flawed. You are producing a TV that is *conditionally* calibrated: Once grayscale/whote balance is set up per your method, the Color slider can’t be touched. The reason? By leaving the Color set to anything but zero, you are mixing the (a) input-dependent color offsets from whatever input you start with, with its possibly inaccurate “default” CBOF and CROF settings; and (b) the color offsets inherent in the processing that drives the CRT *after* the Color control, which are inherently *global.*

Note that you’re probably stuck doing it this way if you are working with a TV that has no way of turning color all the way off; it would be the best you can do. If that’s the ISF training you received, then that’s its purpose — but at the expense of sets that *do* have a color control that can be set to zero and whose grayscale calibration could be universally calibrated by a more-sophisticated method that takes this into account. Your training should have explained the second method, as I described, to be used wherever it can be applied (and with your instruments and pattern generators).

Bottom line: These Sony sets we are discussing respond favorably to a more rigorous calibration method that guarantees correct white balance and gray scale *independent* of the Color control, and if your ISF training didn’t point this out, then it falls short.

Technical tangent: From an engineer's perspective, it’s a classic gain-and-offset problem: Two amplifiers, each with gain and offset adjustments, are separated by a “volume control.” How do you zero-out the offsets? Easy. Set the “volume control” (here, the Color slider) all the way to zero, and adjust the second amplifier for zero offset. Then crank up the “volume control” and adjust the first amplifier the same way. Done. Any other methodology confounds the offsets from the first and second amplifiers in a way so you can never get it right, except by accident. This symbolic/schematic problem has an accurate analogy in the color-processing signal path in these TVs, adding only an input-selector switch ahead of the Color control.

Ken, ………You are missing something here or misunderstanding what I am saying.

As it pertains to relation of the color slider and white balance. The color slider “should” only change saturation, nothing more. Once you have your White Balance set, the color of white should not change with movement of the color slider.

ISF training is directed towards the standards and what we should be seeing. What really counts with a calibration is what we actually see when finished, maximizing the viewing experience. Many times the settings differ from the manufactures service settings and methods. All TVs are not created equal, however, the goal we try to achieve is the same for all. Do all calibrate to that goal, no, but we get as close as we can with each different situation.

Let’s take your approach: If you need to adjust CROF or CBOF because the color changes a little when the slider is set to MAX, then you adjust the color temp so white is uniform from Min to Max on the slider. Right?
Now my method:Having previously set the color temp to 6500K, I go to a different input, adjust the Picture, Brightness, Color and Hue sliders to proper settings and measure the color of White. It needs some adjustment, say it was 6450K, I then adjust CROF and CBOF accordingly to get to 6500K at the proper viewing settings. Now I have a properly adjusted input that is displaying an accurate image. If the color slider needs to be changed, because of broadcast variances, there should be no change in white balance. Right?
Since the settings that will be used during viewing are the most important, I make sure those are the most accurate, therefore adjust with the color slider set for viewing, not max. I would rather see errors with the slider at max than at viewing settings. If calibrating with the slider at max yields a uniform gray scale, then with the accuracy of the color analyzer, adjustment with slider set at viewing setting would yield the same results. One thing I have never seen in a consumer TV service manual is reference to using any type of color analyzer to set color temp. Very few, if any TV repair technicians have a color analyzer.

While we are in this area, an additional offset that can be adjusted by input is YOF, this will adjust any luminance variances by input. A meter able to accurately measure the screen luminance is needed if adjustment is desired. YOF, CROF and CBOF are input/scan rate offsets for luminance and chroma signal variances in input devices. No two devices will be absolutely the same.

As it pertains to relation of the color slider and white balance. The color slider “should” only change saturation, nothing more. Once you have your White Balance set, the color of white should not change with movement of the color slider.We absolutely agree on this. It changes the saturation of whatever color that comes to it. That includes (a) the video-signal's color *and* (b) whatever garbage colors are being generated by the input amplifiers & decoders. (I assure you, I understand the method you are using.)Having previously set the color temp to 6500K, I go to a different input, adjust the Picture, Brightness, Color and Hue sliders to proper settings and measure the color of White. It needs some adjustment, say it was 6450K, I then adjust CROF and CBOF accordingly to get to 6500K at the proper viewing settings. Now I have a properly adjusted input that is displaying an accurate image.No, you have a conditionally adjusted complete signal path, which is a different matter.If the color slider needs to be changed, because of broadcast variances, there should be no change in white balance. Right?Wrong, because you haven't used a method that guarantees that. What if that input is *generating* some color because of its nuisance offsets? The problem is with that *first* calibrated input.

Example: Let's suppose that input has some color offset, say +10 blue and -5 red. (You have no guarantee that any input has no offset.) You adjust the color balance exactly to 6500K and a linear grayscale with the Color slider in its normal position (31). CROF and CBOF are at their no-effect points (31 each), so they don't affect the offset. That color offset is passed on, through the Color control, to the drive-and-cutoff adjustment stage, where you presumably compensate for it, right? (Let's make the "units" of adjustment the same for now.) So you have set the three colors of cutoff and drive to compensate not only for (a) that TV's particular late-stage RGB-video amplifiers and CRT that are there, but also for (b) the +10 blue and -5 red offsets as well.

Now you play/tune-in a lovely B/W movie with no color content on that input. It looks perfect. But what happens if you turn the Color (saturation) down all the way? Even though the movie has no color, the input circuit offsets (+10 blue and -5 red) are still there, and I have just reduced them to zero saturation by turning the saturation to zero, isolating them from those later stages that you have calibrated -- except that those adjustments *subtracted* 10 blue and *added* 5 red to cancel out the offsets, and now there are no offsets.

Thus the color of the movie will change -- with the darkest tones now showing -10 red and +5 blue color casts or tints. That's a color shift with a change in the Color slider-setting, and your grayscale linearity and 6500K are out the window.

If, on the other hand, you had previously discovered those nuisance offsets for that input, you could have compensated for them up-front, which is what CBOF and CROF are for! You would set CBOF to 31-10=21, and CROF to 31+5=36. Now no color offsets are passed to the Color control; and if you now calibrate RDRV thru BCUT for 6500K etc., you have a calibration independent of the Color control, and changing it will not affect the picture's appearance one bit.

Whether you adjust the input offsets first is your choice, but if you adjust the drives and cutoffs first, which is my preference, you can then *forget about that adjustment.* You've got your perfect 6500K and grayscale. You just turn color down to zero, and proceed. *Now* you can adjust the inputs' nuisance offsets a *subordinate* task which it inherently is. Very clean and straightforward.

What i don't get about you kentech is how you accuse glen of being wrong when he's an ISF calibrator;)

It's just funny, that's all.

I know your an engineer, but an ISF guy knows just as much as well, if not even more than you.

Ken, you are getting lost in all of this and making you calibrations much more difficult than they need to be.

If, on the other hand, you had previously discovered those nuisance offsets for that input, you could have compensated for them up-front, which is what CBOF and CROF are for! You would set CBOF to 31-10=21, and CROF to 31+5=36. Now no color offsets are passed to the Color control; and if you now calibrate RDRV thru BCUT for 6500K etc., you have a calibration independent of the Color control, and changing it will not affect the picture's appearance one bit.Totally wrong. Where do you get your reference to measure the needed offset?

Please think about this:
xDRV & xCUT only change in one place, the global “Neutral” color temp. It does affect Cool and Warm because it is the reference point for offsets.
xDOF & xCOF change the Cool and Warm color temp by offset from Neutral.
The input with the least amount of control over luminance and chroma is 480i, composite or S-Video.
Before any color temp calibration on any input, the user controls for Picture, Brightness, Color, Hue and Sharpness as well as edge enhancement and color decoder should be properly set.
Here is my color calibration procedure:
Connect to an input with 480i and test pattern, white window or white field. (lets say a test DVD with DVD player Video 1, set at 480i S-Video)
Verify that CBOF & CROF are both set at 31.
Adjust xDRV & xCUT, going back and forth between low IRE and High IRE windows until you have a uniform gray scale from 10 IRE to 100 IRE. (No plus green errors at any step)
Save settings.
Change DVD player to 480p. (DVD player connected to Video 5, Component)
Do item d. from above (and #2 if desired).
Display a 50 IRE white window and check the color temp.
Adjust CBOF & CROF to achieve 6500K. Move color slider to see that there is no color change.
Save settings. Recheck all user control settings (P, B, C & H)
Repeat 6 –9 with DVD set to 480i and 1080i (if available)
Now lets change to another input, say the ATSC input.
Input an ATSC 1080i signal test pattern.
Repeat steps 6 – 9 with the ATSC signals 480i, 480p and 720p.
Change to an ATSC 720p signal test pattern.
Repeat steps 6 – 9.
At this point, we have all of the RF, Composite and S-Video inputs set to 6500K with CBOF and CROF set at 31 (there are no separate offsets for these). We have also calibrated Video 5 with the DVD player for 480i, 480p and 1080i and the ATSC input for 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i to 6500K by adjusting CBOF and CROF for each of the seven configurations.

What i don't get about you kentech is how you accuse glen of being wrong when he's an ISF calibrator;)

It's just funny, that's all.

I know your an engineer, but an ISF guy knows just as much as well, if not even more than you.
Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions. Wrong can mean it is not done a certain way or that it can’t be done. From my experiences, Engineers, generally work in a single direction and because of time and money constraints. Having had to operate that way can tend to train one to see only one solution to a problem. I have not met Ken, and he has done a great job with this TV and helping us understand its capabilities. He says his method is better, I say mine works, who’s right? That can only be determined by controlled testing and in the end they may both be wrong……….or right or one or the other. The information provided here should be studied and thoroughly evaluated before any judgment calls are made. We are here to enhance our understanding, not prove anyone right or wrong. I just hope I can help lead anyone in the right direction or help avoid mistakes that can be costly.

Just because I am ISF certified, doesn’t mean I know it all. I am in a constant state of learning. Intellectual discussions are one of the great features of forums, discounting the few that have nothing good to say about anything….


From Short Circuit, Number Five “need input…….input” :)

What i don't get about you kentech is how you accuse glen of being wrong when he's an ISF calibrator;)

It's just funny, that's all.

I know your an engineer, but an ISF guy knows just as much as well, if not even more than you.
Croc-

I see you're just teasing here - that's cool.

I am very, very impressed with the back and forth between KenTech and GlenC. These guys have alot to offer us all. KenTech with his clear depth of knowledge of the SFP tube sets, and Sony service codes in gereral, and GlenC with his obviously extensive ISF knowledge and training.

What I appreciate most is that both of these guys have the best interests of the user/viewer at heart. I am saving all of this to review again and again as I grow in the knowledge of my Sony set.

KenTech & GlenC: Thanks for all the info you're offering. I see some fundamental differences in how each of you is approaching some of the discussed adjustments, and that gives me choices in my own efforts.

Cheers! ;)

Justsc, thanks

Ken,

Since I don’t have a XBR here to play with:
Can you go to anyone of your inputs, zero the color slider, then go to CBOF and make up and down changes, the picture should go plus/minus blue. Does it?

Ken, you are getting lost in all of this and making your calibrations much more difficult than they need to be.They're quite easy for me, conceptually and in practice. I'm not bound by blind faith in ISF training, which has several specific purposes, not just the end result with the TV. You haven't made *any* logical counterargument for any of the points I've made. We will both achieve calibrated sets. But the error is exactly in the following statement:

The input with the least amount of control over luminance and chroma is 480i, composite or S-Video.Nope. Or maybe. But you can guarantee that *any* input has *NO* control over luminance and chroma by simply turning Color all the way off. Then use whatever input you like to set up the basic xDRV and xCUT for perfect 6500K and grayscale. This way anybody reading this with a DVD player and the DVE disk can set up white balance without worrying about which input has the least contamination. You have to rely on a specialized S-video pattern generator and *hope* there are no offsets in the equipment or input.

That's our difference in a nutshell. You have not logically pointed up any flaws with this, and I have verified this procedure with perfect results. Restating your method adds nothing new, as I completely understand it. If the S-video input has *zero* offset, you will achieve the correct settings of xDRV and xCUT you seek, no question. But if you turn down the Color, you will *guarantee* it whether S-video, or any other, input has been used. I've made my case and proved it in practice. I have no ISF training to defend nor sacred cows to protect, so I have little else to say on this matter. Other folks will have to chime in on this, if this hasn't become too arcane. The arguments have to be judged on their merits and logic, and I think they have been stated clearly by both of us.

I'm trying out a lot of different menues as I'm trying to fix my remaining geometry problems on my 34XBR960.

Here is an interesting one: QM, WUSR and RUSR

When WUSR is activated by moving from 0 to 1, and a memory card is in the TV the following files are written to the memory card.

User Default File
User Current File
Service Default File
Service Current File

When RUSR is activated the values are read back to the NMW (Whatever that is)

Could someone with a "geometry virginal" XBR 960 please do the WUSR and post the 4 values. I might be able to get at better starting point for fixing the geometry.

Here is the "Service Default File" (I changed the extension .SD to .txt to prevent problems with security programs)

I couldn't find a program that can read the files

I'm not bound by blind faith in ISF training, which has several specific purposes, not just the end result with the TV.Can you prove this statement or back it up with facts, or is this just a statement without merit? I assume you have been through ISF Training to qualify yourself to make such a statement. You have no clue as to my approach and goal, but you can be sure that the ultimate goal on any of my calibrations is to achieve optimal results for that display, to the best of my abilities. Even if a 3 hour calibration takes me 6 hours, and they have (standard calibrations have fixed prices, not hourly).

You haven't made *any* logical counterargument for any of the points I've made.Are you not reading my posts or just don’t want to consider the process.?

Here is a logical counterargument:
How can you possibly determine any type of required input offset without some starting reference point? By your method, you can only calibrate one input at one scan rate. I say this because you seem to think you adjust offset (CROF & CBOF) first, then adjust the color temp with xCUT & xDRV. If cut and drive are global, how will you be able to “calibrate” another input with your method? Read through my calibration steps above. If you think it is wrong, describe your method for calibrating the same number of inputs and scan rates.

You have to rely on a specialized S-video pattern generator I don’t see what is so specialized about Avia or DVE and the S-Video output from any DVD player.

and *hope* there are no offsets in the equipment or input.This doesn’t really matter, because you will have calibrated to that piece of equipment and the test DVDs are very close to a pure B&W signal. In theory, by my method, you could calibrate different inputs to different color temps, just by changing CROF & CBOF. Wait, this is why the offsets work this way, after the one initial calibration of “Neutral Color Temp” with drive and cut. Not before.
Additionally, if the offsets are in the input devices, then why are the only factory “31/31” offsets in 480i?

The reason I say to use the S-Video first is because the defaults in all of the 480i inputs for CROF & CBOF is 31. When properly calibrated, all of the other inputs and scan rates should be close. Additionally, almost everyone has a DVD player with S-Video. Not all have component and or DVI/HDMI.

You have not logically pointed up any flaws with this, The entire explanation of my procedure points out the flaw in your method. Don’t get me wrong, you could get one input calibrated by your method, but it does not carry over to calibrating other inputs.

and I have verified this procedure with perfect results. “Perfect”, I think not, "acceptable to your eye only", yes, I would agree. For all we know you could have 9000K at 20 IRE and 7000K at 100 IRE. I have measured my method and have achieved results from three different inputs with two or three different scan rates. All were very uniform at 6500K +/- 50K in 10 IRE intervals. None of us can achieve “perfect” results no matter what methods we use. The TVs have more variances than that.

Glen & Ken,

Thanks for the replies on my experimental tandem/differentiation approach. I wish there'd been time to respond to more of them today, but I need some time to digest some more of this. Allotta good info/opinions here to consider. I'm gonna take Glen's suggestion re the photo grey card and LED though and see how that works. That sounds like the best way for now to check if my rather whacky experimental system is putting me anywhere near 6500k.

Also, if the CBOF and CROF offsets are already in the ballpark for most inputs, as Glen suggests, then changing DVI to 31 from the defaults (as I've done) probably would not be the best way for others to proceed if they're looking to ballpark the greyscales of multiple inputs by calibrating via Video 1, or one of the other analog inputs. Leaving CBOF and CROF at their defaults may be better at least as a starting point. It probably matters less on my TV though since DVI is the only input I use.

I'm really more concerned about the potential effect that CBOF and CROF may have on the slope of the red and blue drives/cutoffs for DVI. If these offsets only adjust the cutoff points, then that means they are probably altering the slope of the grey scale on each component relative to others which would not be a good thing for my tandem drive/cutoff approach. I assumed that neutralizing them to 7-31-31 would give me the best shot at acheiving a uniform slope on each component. But now I'm less sure. Perhaps the original defaults were closer. If there is a way to adjust the grey scales on my TV fairly accurately (and I sort of feel in my bones that there is) using the same values for both drive and cutoff, and perhaps also without any kind of white reference (which I know sounds a bit far-fatched), then I'd kind of like to figure it out, because it might simplify things alot. It looks like I'll need some kind of 6500k reference to verify this though. Maybe the photo card/LED will do the trick.

Are you not reading my posts or just don’t want to consider the process.?Not rocket science, Glen. Because I don't agree, you claim I don't understand. I do. And I don't agree.Here is a logical counterargument:
How can you possibly determine any type of required input offset without some starting reference point? By your method, you can only calibrate one input at one scan rate.To the contrary, by turning the Color slider down to zero, you can use *any* input to adjust white balance and grayscale because you are guaranteeing that NO errant color has been introduced up to that point. The service-mode settings for WB/grayscale are global, not input-specific, and they exist in only one place: the SBRT, xDRV, and xCUT settings. Having gotten this right, you can now turn Color up again and use the input-class-specific settings of CBOF and CROF, plus the adjustments in 2170P-3/UBOF thru UHOF, to fix any offsets that exist at those inputs by whatever method. Clear and simple.The entire explanation of my procedure points out the flaw in your method.Sorry, repetition ("Look, look, mine *is* better than yours") is not counterargument.“Perfect”, I think not, "acceptable to your eye only", yes, I would agree.And for what other purpose is this entertainment device being adjusted? The fiction that 6500K *exactly* is all that is acceptable is sheer nonsense! Heaven help the poor chap whose set is not exactly 6500K, and the neigbors find out. Think of the ridicule and finger-pointing! If the white point on my set is 6341K and whites appear white, it is perfect. Such small deviations from the industry-standard do not affect the perception of colors to any significant degree -- the rather adaptive eye/brain combination sees to that, and the variations among real-world program sources swamp small deviations completely. In my business, I have calibrated numerous color monitors for graphic artists involved in color pre-press. That is a critical application. Watching CSI/Miami, the evening news, Gladiator? I think not! Perspective, folks, perspective.

Glen, if you want to discuss/defend the business of ISF calibration, start another thread. This thread is to help folks understand the effects of the myriad service-menu codes and how adventuresome folks might adjust them to improve their sets and fix problems. Those who simply want someone to come out and calibrate everything and don't particularly want to get their hands dirty or clutter their brain (don't start!) with niggling details, will look for a local ISF tech to do the job. I don't do my own brake jobs anymore, either. One trades $$ for trouble. ISF calibration, its training, the required equipment investment -- all consitute a potentially profitable business with an up-front investment whose practicing individuals charge dearly for their work. For the folks who need it, the results are likely fabulous! But it's a business, Glen, not a religion.

ADU, there is no need for uniformity between drive and cut. Cut sets where black level is achieved and drive sets the white. If you reduce the cut settings, you are reducing the light output on the low end for a given Brightness setting. If you had to reduce BCUT & RCUT to get to 6500K at 20 IRE, the result would be a reduction in light output of red and blue and now you would need to adjust Brightness to compensate. Black is black and white is white and there is one optimal setting for Picture and Brightness (for any one viewing condition). If you decrease the overall light output with xCUT, Brightness usually needs to increase same with xDRV and Picture. IMO, it would make sense to set xCUT and xDRV to achieve the desired color temperature with normalized Brightness and Picture settings.

Also, if the CBOF and CROF offsets are already in the ballpark for most inputs, as Glen suggests, then changing DVI to 31 from the defaults (as I've done) probably would not be the best way for others to proceed if they're looking to ballpark the greyscales of multiple inputs by calibrating via Video 1, or one of the other analog inputs. Leaving CBOF and CROF at their defaults may be better at least as a starting point. It probably matters less on my TV though since DVI is the only input I use. This is true, however if you have changed the V7/DVI offsets to 31, I am assuming it was done in 1080i. If this is the case, then change the resolution to 480i and/or 480p and see what the colors look like. Since the default for 1080i is CROF=45 and CBOF=47 and 480p is CROF=42 and CBOF=41 calibrating 1080i at 31/31 should yield an error with the default in 480p the picture should be noticeably plus blue and red. As far as 480i, default CROF/CBOF=31 and again the picture should be noticeably plus blue and red. I would appreciate your checking this and reporting back with your findings.

I'm really more concerned about the potential effect that CBOF and CROF may have on the slope of the red and blue drives/cutoffs for DVI. If these offsets only adjust the cutoff points, then that means they are probably altering the slope of the grey scale on each component relative to othersThis has nothing to do with “slope” (I assume you mean the Gamma curve). These offsets will only affect the amount of blue and red in the white signal to get you back to your desired calibrated temperature individually on each input for each resolution.

This is a really cool feature in this Sony, there are not many TVs that allow color temperature calibration for each input and scan rate. My Mitsubishi 65813 has three (480i, 480p & 1080i) separate calibration settings for High and Low color temp (Mid is an internal average of the two).

Ken,

Maybe I'm just falling into Glen's evil trap :) but I don't think he has much to gain personally or financially by championing ~6500k as your optimum target, and suggesting other ways of referencing this like photo cards/LEDs. I think we all know that Glen's in this as a business, and can interpret his remarks accordingly. It's helpful to hear different informed viewpoints though. And because the blacks on these TVs tend to get easily muddied by other issues, I think there is something to be said for getting as close to ~6500k as possible for the best shadow detail.

Re the grey scales issues currently on the table, I can see legitimate arguments on both sides of the color question. I think all Glen is really saying here is that the way the Sonys are configured out of the box, it may be easier to initially ballpark the grey scales for all inputs by performing the grey scale calibration with the Color on as opposed to off (with CROF and CBOF left at their defaults). Since he's calibrated more TV's than I have, I'm prepared to accept that on his word for the moment. And it's probably something that informed DIYers can try and judge for themselves.

Your approach may work equally as well though Ken, if you're already resigned to adjusting the CBOF and CROF offsets for every input you're using. Maybe I'm not completely grasping all the subtleties of the arguments you're both making, but so far that's really about the only difference I can see between your two approaches.Having gotten this right, you can now turn Color up again and use the input-class-specific settings of CBOF and CROF, plus the adjustments in 2170P-3/UBOF thru UHOF, to fix any offsets that exist at those inputs by whatever method.The first part of this I agree with, however if you're suggesting that you can tweak the grey scales via UCOF and UHOF, then I disagree. IMO, those particular 2170P-3 parameters should generally only be used to adjust differences between the color decoders on each input/signal.

If, on the other hand, you had previously discovered those nuisance offsets for that input, you could have compensated for them up-front, which is what CBOF and CROF are for! You would set CBOF to 31-10=21, and CROF to 31+5=36. Now no color offsets are passed to the Color control; and if you now calibrate RDRV thru BCUT for 6500K etc., you have a calibration independent of the Color control…….

The service-mode settings for WB/grayscale are global, not input-specific, and they exist in only one place: the SBRT, xDRV, and xCUT settings. Having gotten this right, you can now turn Color up again and use the input-class-specific settings of CBOF and CROF, plus the adjustments in 2170P-3/UBOF thru UHOF, to fix any offsets that exist at those inputs by whatever method. Clear and simple.
First you say set CROF and CBOF then calibrate RDRV thru BCUT……..then you say once you have RDRV thru BCUT set, you adjust CBOF and CROF while acknowledging “they exist in only one place: the SBRT, xDRV, and xCUT settings”. This is what has been confusing.

I haven’t experimented with 2170P-3/UBOF thru UHOF, I am assuming they will “offset” or allow adjustment of/for various effects in the different modes, Vivid, Pro………

As for ISF business, I have probably contributed too much here in detailed procedures that it could impact potential business.

And because the blacks on these TVs tend to get easily muddied by other issues, I think there is something to be said for getting as close to ~6500k as possible for the best shadow detail.Don’t get confused here, 6500K is only the color of white needed to properly reproduce film based media like movies. Color temp calibration will deal with the color of Black, but shadow detail is dependant on Brightness, Sharpness and other settings being properly set.

As far as 6500K, yes it is a desired industry target.
Can it be perfectly achieved from 10 IRE to 100 IRE? No.
Is getting as close as possible a calibration goal? Yes.
If I can’t get to 6500K, my goal is to have no +Green error and being +Blue is better than +Red. This means that a calibration has no +Green and color temp ranges from about 6400K and up. I would rather see one go from 6400K to 7000K than 6100K to 6700K. Red and Green are much more visible than Blue.

First you say set CROF and CBOF then calibrate RDRV thru BCUT
No, no, no! Please point out where I might have said that! I say this: Turn down Color, calibrate WB and grayscale, *then* turn up Color and adjust CROF and CBOF. That's the only order that makes sense to me, since the starategy is to (1) adjust the global settings, then (2) adjust the input-mode-specific settings. Without having done (1), (2) makes no sense!

if you have changed the V7/DVI offsets to 31, I am assuming it was done in 1080i. If this is the case, then change the resolution to 480i and/or 480p and see what the colors look like. Since the default for 1080i is CROF=45 and CBOF=47 and 480p is CROF=42 and CBOF=41 calibrating 1080i at 31/31 should yield an error with the default in 480p the picture should be noticeably plus blue and red. As far as 480i, default CROF/CBOF=31 and again the picture should be noticeably plus blue and red. I would appreciate your checking this and reporting back with your findings.The quick answer is yes, the color does seem to go a bit to hell on the other inputs/signals. Since I'm only using the DVI input though (@1080i/540p), it doesn't really matter to me.

Justsc, thanks

Ken,

Since I don’t have a XBR here to play with:
Can you go to anyone of your inputs, zero the color slider, then go to CBOF and make up and down changes, the picture should go plus/minus blue. Does it?No, not in the slightest. That is why, in my *schematic* model of how the color processing works, I say that the CROF and CBOF offset adjustments come *before* the Color control. If one cranks Color up to Max, CBOF and CROF adjustments are easily seen on-screen. Set Color to Min, and no effect can be noted.

No, no, no! Please point out where I might have said that! I say this: Turn down Color, calibrate WB and grayscale, *then* turn up Color and adjust CROF and CBOF. That's the only order that makes sense to me, since the starategy is to (1) adjust the global settings, then (2) adjust the input-mode-specific settings. Without having done (1), (2) makes no sense!
You said/implied that in Post #220, next-to-last paragraph.

Now, you have just described my method. Set global color temp then adjust each input/scan rate in use. The only exception is my starting with 480i because all of the 480i offsets are preset at 31/31. There shouldn’t be any color changes in Black – White with color slider movement. If an input is driving R, G, or B differently than the one the global calibration is done on, setting the slider to max should help show the difference.

IMO, reviewing the factory defaults, it appears that their intent is to calibrate using 480i because the TV must decompress/split/process the signal to extract color from luminance, therefore all 480i RGB signals to the tube should be the same. When you input component/DVI/HDMI, the TV has no control over the input signal therefore the need for different offset settings to balance the color temp.

I think this thread is starting to get out of hand.At first it was about helpful service menu codes, but now it's a bickering of i'm right and your wrong.

I appreciate all the contribution to this thread, with all the different ways we can tweak our sony sets, but some of the things you are revealing in your discoverys is a bit too much, if that's the right word for it.

I mean it's almost like you are redoing your whole entire set, like making a new tv yourself when in fact most of the factory settings are just fine.You don't want to screw with too much stuff or some stuff will affect other inputs and resolutions and make them out of wack.

An example is overscan, if you lower it even more you will start to see flaws in broadcast material, and you will see things with VHS tapes that should'nt be there in the corners.Not to mention it helps in hiding geometry errors, and if you lower it too much letterboxed material will be much smaller and the black bars above and below would get bigger while the image gets smaller.

Anyways though you have been both very helpfull in helping me with my tweaks.

And i appreciate your brave discoveries, in which some codes i just don't have the guts to do bymyself without the proper equipment to measure it right like color temp and greyscale.

You said/implied that in Post #220, next-to-last paragraph.I get the implication, sorry. No, that's not a recommended *method.* It's just a way of thinking about it. Sorry if I stated it poorly.

IMO, reviewing the factory defaults, it appears that their intent is to calibrate using 480i because the TV must decompress/split/process the signal to extract color from luminance, therefore all 480i RGB signals to the tube should be the same.A really good point. My method assumes *no* input is perfect. But if Sony have guaranteed that the derivation of color from the combined "C" signal is near-perfect (quite possible), then calibrating from that input as your first choice would work well.When you input component/DVI/HDMI, the TV has no control over the input signal therefore the need for different offset settings to balance the color temp.Yes, maybe. I'm still not sure I understand all the implications of the published block diagram from the service manual, which tries to show all of the signal paths. Those who think this is a mostly-digital set will be disappointed! It appears like the ATSC tuner, memory-stick, and HDMI inputs are immediately converted to analog-component video. All of their signal paths are identified as "YCbCr." Inputs 1, 2, and 3 ("YC") are routed to the "Main Color Decoder, CXA2103." Then they exit as YCbCr -- aka component video. Then that is converted to digital at IC3003 and passed to the DRC processor and on to the MID processor.

The CXA2171 chip switches among V5/V6 component inputs, HDMI, and ATSC, a different path from the CXA2103 chip, above. Then that is converted to digital at IC8601 and passed to the main MID processor as "VDO digital," bypassing DRC.

I made the initial choice that I couldn't necessarily understand all of the implications of this diagram, and I have found it useful to model the behavior of the TV in my head, refining it as I learn more. That's what engineers do on the way to designing something, so it is also a helpful skill when trying to understand a complex system that already exists.

The referenced block diagram is attached.

You can have the block diagrams…. YCrCb is a different signal from YPrPb and I am not sure of the difference. I believe (not sure) the YCrCb is 480i component, while YPrPb is HD/Progressive component. DVI/HDMI can carry either RGB(HV) or YPrPb.

There are standards for component signals, however how accurate is the signal from a $69 Progressive DVD player and a $2000 Progressive DVD player. Not sure how close to the standard either will be, but I would think the more expensive unit would have better tolerances in it’s signal path.

You can have the block diagrams…. YCrCb is a different signal from YPrPb and I am not sure of the difference. I believe (not sure) the YCrCb is 480i component, while YPrPb is HD/Progressive component. DVI/HDMI can carry either RGB(HV) or YPrPb.Here is a good explanation. See "Component Video Description and History" about 1/3 of the way down. I shoulda read this before . . .

http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/compon.htm

The article says that YCbCr is the digital equivalent of YPbPr. But the block diagram clearly shows *analog* component inputs V5/V6 feeding YCbCr to the next block. Phooey! Another error in the Sony documentation. Either they are using both terms randomly, to mean the same thing, or they have them turned around.

OK, I think I have it, YCrCb, is a much more compressible version of RGB and is the format of the MPEG coding on DVDs. RGB, an uncompressed video signal carrying the three separate color info and very high bandwidth, best color signal. In a DVD player, YCrCb is sent through a D/A converter and is sent out as YPrPb, S-Video or composite. The TV takes any of these signals, puts it through an A/D converter to convert it to YCrCb and processes accordingly. Like sending 480i through a doubler or changing scan rate (720p to 1080i). Once the TV has finished all of it’s needed processing the signal goes through a D/A converter to change the signal to RGB(HV) so it can be sent to the tube.

The TV takes any of these signals, puts it through an A/D converter to convert it to YCrCb and processes accordingly. Like sending 480i through a doubler or changing scan rate (720p to 1080i). Once the TV has finished all of it’s needed processing the signal goes through a D/A converter to change the signal to RGB(HV) so it can be sent to the tube.Yesterday I spent about an hour with the schematic diagrams of the set, and it doea, indeed, look like that is what is happening. The block diagram has numerous errors. (The component-input signals are correctly labeled YPrPb on the schematic, and YCrCb doesn't appear until after the A/D converter. Then things get fairly compex with labels and symbols I couldn't identify, so I gave up.)

It's important to know that there are two main video pathways, one with DRC and a separate one that bypasses it. Well, important for techies, anyway.

480p and 1080i could possibly bypass the DRC since they don't require conversion to another scanrate for display. They're probably still converted to digital for processing by the MID circuits though.The TV takes any of these signals, puts it through an A/D converter to convert it to YCrCb and processes accordingly. Like sending 480i through a doubler or changing scan rate (720p to 1080i). Once the TV has finished all of it’s needed processing the signal goes through a D/A converter to change the signal to RGB(HV) so it can be sent to the tube.FWIW, this is the way it seemed to work on the XBR800's as well, for DVI anyway. DVI appeared to be initially converted to an analog signal and then seemed to follow pretty much the same paths as the Component signals. There was a way of rerouting 33.75khz-540p/1080i signals (from both the component and DVI inputs) past later digital processing prior to reaching the tube on some TVs though. And this rerouting of 1080i fixed the "scrolling bar" problem on various TVs, and also eliminated interlacing on 540p signals (which is what I use via DVI on my own 34XBR800). (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=293741)

I think Sony improved signal integrity on models after the XBR800s though, to better accomodate the SFP tubes. So I'd be less concerned about PQ-loss due to internal processing on the XBR960s.

I think there is something to be said for getting as close to ~6500k as possible for the best shadow detail.I don't think you meant this. The former is white balance, the second is grayscale calibration independent of white balance. You could, for example, have a perfectly linear grayscale calibrated for 5400K.I can see legitimate arguments on both sides of the color question. I think all Glen is really saying here is that the way the Sonys are configured out of the box, it may be easier to initially ballpark the grey scales for all inputs by performing the grey scale calibration with the Color on as opposed to off. Since he's calibrated more TV's than I have, I'm prepared to accept that on his word for the moment. And it's probably something that informed DIYers can try and judge for themselves.I think you have stated the issue pretty well. Glen also has a variety of TVs to deal with, and, accepting the inherent asumption in his method, it will succeed.Your approach may work equally as well though Ken, if you're already resigned to adjusting the CBOF and CROF offsets for every input you're using.This is where our methods converge. We *both* have to calibrate CBOF and CROF for the inputs we want calibrated, by whatever means.however if you're suggesting that you can tweak the grey scales via UCOF and UHOF, then I disagree.No, not grayscale color-neutrality. Just black level (which I included with the term "offsets") with UBOF, and then color (amount) and hue differences between video source devices with UCOF and UHOF.IMO, those particular 2170P-3 parameters should generally only be used to adjust differences between the color decoders on each input/signal.Or let's just say the color and black level on each input signal, because there is nowhere else to compensate for, say, a permanently-connected VCR with a noticeable hue error, as I own, or for a DVD player whose black level doesn't agree with anything else (mine, too). I would use those settings as compensation so I don't have to fiddle with the remote each time I switch from broadcast to a VCR recording of the same thing. That said, you can make the choice to have UBOF-UHOF set just for imbalances inherent to the TV, and leave further tweaking to the user menu. What else could you do if you were going to switch video sources around every now and then? But in my case, there is no way for me to separate the TV from the DVD input in practice, so I adjust for my DVD player as-connected. When I switch to it, it's right.

I don't think you meant this. The former is white balance, the second is grayscale calibration independent of white balance. You could, for example, have a perfectly linear grayscale calibrated for 5400K.I don’t think you meant this either. White balance and gray-scale are one-in-the-same. It doesn’t matter what temperature you are using. If you choose 6500K, 5400K, 9300K or whatever you want for white, the goal is a uniform gray-scale at that temperature. With CRT, we are fortunate that cuts and drives are available to adjust both ends of the scale for a uniform gray-scale. With LCD and DLP, you only have R, G & B drive, calibrate at 50 IRE and hope fore the best uniformity and tweak for the best overall results.

Yes, I believe we are in agreement on the color calibration process. My method was designed for the display having any number of inputs in use or multiple scan-rates in use on one input. Some have all of their equipment connected through one input via an A/V receiver. Some HD STB (cable/DSS) can have numerous output configurations:
All 480i/p
All 720p
All 1080i
Native 480i/p, 720p & 1080i
Native 480i/p, 720p
Native 480i/p, 1080i
These configurations generate a need for multiple input/scan-rate calibrations.

White balance and gray-scale are one-in-the-same. It doesn’t matter what temperature you are using. If you choose 6500K, 5400K, 9300K or whatever you want for white, the goal is a uniform gray-scale at that temperature."White balance" on my digital still and video cameras means *color-temperature* adjustment, and that's how I used the term. It also has the same meaning in Photoshop and its Camera Raw plug, where you use the White Balance slider to "balance" your image to match the color temperature of the picture as shot.

But let me use your terms: Color-temp (white) setting and grayscale linearity (uniformity) are independent, as you have said in your last sentence above. You can set any CT for any grayscale and adjust grayscale uniformity for any CT. That means the parameters of white balance and grayscale uniformity are independent concepts in principle. We agree; this is semantics! (Of course, the *adjustments* we're stuck with for setting WB and grayscale interact -- but that's just an implementation, not a principle.)

ADU's thinking that he has to have 6500K before he has adequate shadow detail confuses the two concepts of the *color* of the white point and the *level* of the darkest grays. To be sure, I am including the black level at the bottom of the gray scale as part of its setup, and that is the one item that determines adequate shadow detail. So maybe the difficulty is there. Again, the terminology . . .

Hey guys....this tread has been very helpful, but I have a little problem. I usually try and search on here before I go ahead and post an issue that has been covered already. My 32hs510 set is looking great thanks to this thread, except for one issue...When I switch to my RF input which has an old jerrold cable box connected to it, I get a good picture for about 3 seconds and then i see this auto focusing and it then get a lil blurred..very noticeable. I've look hard and long for a setting in the service menu for this, but no luck...does anyone know what the setting or problem coul be? Only happens with RF, and I've tried switching to all DRC modes.