Specs from J&R web listing:

A 37" video monitor that features a super-bright, high contrast 1920x1080 LCD / VGA, Component & DVI Connections / Great for TV or Computer Use

Westinghouse 37" Video Monitor - This 37" video monitor features a super-bright, high contrast 1920x1080 progressive scan LCD panel. Which is enhanced with Faroudja's DCDi and TrueLife video processing, delivering state-of-the-art video performance. It also features VGA, component, and DVI connections. Making this a perfect choice for computers, TV, and game consoles!
2 Detachable 20 Watt Speakers
Native Resolution - 1920 x 1080
Aspect Ratio - 16:9
HDTV Ready - 480p, 720p, & 1080i
Brightness (cd/m2) - 550
Contrast Ratio - 600:1
Viewing Angle - (horizontal/vertical ) 176 Degrees
Response Time - 12ms
Display Colors - 16.7 Million True Colors
Inverse 3:2 Pulldown
50,000 Hour Lamp Life
Progressive Scan
Aspect Ratio Conversion
PIP
Freezing Picture
3D Video Processing
3D Comb Filter
Connectors - 1 Composite In / 1 S-Video In (adapter included) / 2 Component (YPbPr) (adapter included) / 2 DVI-HDCP / 1 RGB/VGA/PC In / 1 Audio In (mini) / 5 Audio In (Dual RCA)
Wall Mountable
Cabinet Color - Silver
Unit Dimensions (w/ stand) - 28.5" (h) x 36.6" (w) x 8.4" (d)
Unit Weight (w/ stand) - 56 lbs.
Unit Dimensions (w/o stand) - 23" (h) x 36.6" (w) x 4.5" (d)

Benq 37" 1080P at Crutchfield
Westinghouse 37" 1080P at J&R

Any other contenders in the ~$2000 1080p LCD panels wars?

Here's a pic but not truly a review at CNET

http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5619296-1.html

I wasn't impressed with the previous versions but last week I saw the new 32" version at BB and it had a great PQ with fine detailed edges that were better than the new Samsung version next to it. I know that can depend on tweaking but the 32" looks quite good and the price was great.

Yes, it looks like pre-orders are being taken at J&R and I would expect this should become available soon at BB as they appear to be one of their primary distribution channels. Would be nice to see how it does 1080P on Blu-Ray when their available. Looks like it good be a good deal especially for a bedroom Panel as I've had a hard time finding a fit into a Armoire but it looks like this will fit a 37" where I had a 31" CRT.

This panel is probably still months away from the market. The last update I saw was that the Chi Mei 37-inch (the panel that Westinghouse hopes to use) was due in Q3.

It may be a few months before any of the cheaper 1080p panels come out, but whose complaining? 1 year ago, let alone 6 months ago, who would have thought we could get a 37' LCD TV with 1080p resolution for around $2000.00? Im sure by late summer were going to have many choices for a decent 1080p TV. A few months to wait is worth the extra resolution....

Originally posted by rogo
This panel is probably still months away from the market. The last update I saw was that the Chi Mei 37-inch (the panel that Westinghouse hopes to use) was due in Q3.

Will the BenQ 37" 1080p LCD use these same Chi Mei panels?

Originally posted by LCDFan
It may be a few months before any of the cheaper 1080p panels come out, but whose complaining? 1 year ago, let alone 6 months ago, who would have thought we could get a 37' LCD TV with 1080p resolution for around $2000.00? Im sure by late summer were going to have many choices for a decent 1080p TV. A few months to wait is worth the extra resolution....

Agreed on all points. Heck, LOTS of people will buy 27"-37" panels *just* for computer use! No one would have dreamed last year that such large sizes and resolutions would be available so soon, let alone complete with a NTSC cable tuner and all the inputs these have. Thousands of people would gladly buy these if they only had an RGB and DVI port, just as a computer monitor. Looks like the promise of "convergence" is finally happening...

With the price of 17in. and 19 in. LCD computer monitors dropping, I would think the larger format TV's will follow as well.

I really don't understand the price differential, to be quite honest. A 17 in. LCD monitor now sells fgor under $300 and it packs more LCD pixels into a much smaller space than most larger ones. Wouldn't the smaller ones be more costly to manufacture than the larger ones? The electronics should only add a few hundred bucks.. so, where's the difference going? hmmm.. profit!

Perhaps I don't understand the technichal aspects of manufacturing larger size LCD's.. anyone have any insight?

Thanks,

Jerry

Originally posted by ChiTown_Jerry
With the price of 17in. and 19 in. LCD computer monitors dropping, I would think the larger format TV's will follow as well.

I really don't understand the price differential, to be quite honest. A 17 in. LCD monitor now sells fgor under $300 and it packs more LCD pixels into a much smaller space than most larger ones. Wouldn't the smaller ones be more costly to manufacture than the larger ones? The electronics should only add a few hundred bucks.. so, where's the difference going? hmmm.. profit!

Perhaps I don't understand the technichal aspects of manufacturing larger size LCD's.. anyone have any insight?

Thanks,

Jerry
First there is an isissue of assembly line. Small panels had been around for long time and costs setting it up are amortized. The large panels are new and need new assembly lines which cost tons of money to set up plus the new equipment capable of handling it. Then you have cost of materials, for example you could probably make four 17" panels from one 37". You are right, once you make the panel, electronics are not very expensive and in many cases the same electronics are used for different size panels. As far as size of the pixel is concerned, once you have proper equipment and everything is set up it doesn't really matter except maybe for dead pixels, the more pixels the bigger chance some may not work.

Originally posted by pete4
First there is an isissue of assembly line. Small panels had been around for long time and costs setting it up are amortized. The large panels are new and need new assembly lines which cost tons of money to set up plus the new equipment capable of handling it. Then you have cost of materials, for example you could probably make four 17" panels from one 37". You are right, once you make the panel, electronics are not very expensive and in many cases the same electronics are used for different size panels. As far as size of the pixel is concerned, once you have proper equipment and everything is set up it doesn't really matter except maybe for dead pixels, the more pixels the bigger chance some may not work.

That's the best explanation I've heard for the price discrepancy between typical PC 17" or higher LCD panels and LCD TV's of equivalent resolution and response rate.

Using any reasonable scaling metric like screen surface area, absolute resolution, and/or weight, a 32" 1360x768 LCD panel ought to street for around $800, even accounting for added NTSC tuner(s) and I/O ports. Recovering new assembly line equipment and installation costs as quickly as possible appears to be the most likely reason for the pricing of 37" and larger panels relative to their smaller PC counterparts.

Sounds reasonable..

Which perhaps is why some of these newer entrants into the market can produce panels cheaper.. they are simply using other companies' technologies and farming out production to a company that is already set up utilizing surplus manufacturing capacity.

Thanks!
Jerry

Originally posted by Rgb
Will the BenQ 37" 1080p LCD use these same Chi Mei panels?

No, the BenQ uses panels from AU Optronics.

Originally posted by rogo
No, the BenQ uses panels from AU Optronics.

Thanks, rogo.

Now, all we need to know is what panel tech the AU Optronics and Chi Mei panels are, i.e. Tn-film, PVA/MVA, or S-IPS?

You might get answers with some Google searches. Chi Mei is often referred to as CMO, AU Optronics often called AUO.

Seek and ye might find.

This is what AUO says about their 37"

Size 37"
Model T370HW01
Aspect Ratio 16 : 9
Resolution (pixel) HDTV (1920 x 1080)
Active Area (mm) 819.36 x 460.89
Pixel Pitch (mm) 0.427
Mode Premium MVA
Number of Colors 16.7M (8 bit)
Color Saturation (NTSC %) 72 (EBU=100%)
View Angle (H/V) 170 / 170
Brightness (cd/m²) 550
Contrast Ratio 800 : 1
Response Time (ms) (at 25°C) 8 (gray to gray)
Power Consumption (W) 150
Interface 2ch LVDS
Supply Voltage (V) 12
Light Source 20 CCFL
Outline Dimensions (mm) 894.8 x 527.4 x 50.7
Weight (g) 9,500
Production Q1

Circuit City has a Polaroid 37" LCD TV 1920x1080 listed on their website avaible NOW. Unless something is wrong with their web site, it lists it as in stock for all their stores in the Boston area. By they way, the price is below $2000 (even the MSRP).

Interestingly, this model is not shown on the Polaroid home page.

Originally posted by mbjorkman
Circuit City has a Polaroid 37" LCD TV 1920x1080 listed on their website avaible NOW. Unless something is wrong with their web site, it lists it as in stock for all their stores in the Boston area. By they way, the price is below $2000 (even the MSRP).

Interestingly, this model is not shown on the Polaroid home page.

That makes it 1080p Panel Wars Episode III :D.

The price listed on the site is a "new low" for 37" 1080p already! Crimony, 37" 1080p aren't in the hands of buyers yet, and they're fighting over prices!?

Here is the Operating manual (http://www.pwwservicemanuals.com/om/flm3701.pdf)

The manual shows only 1366x768 res and response time 16ms. It is possible that model PCB FLM3701 is newer than FLM3701 (manual).

USG

From
http://www.auo.com/auoDEV/products.php?sec=lcdTV&func=info&product_id=60&items_id=8

The 37" AUO 1080p panel is an MVA technology LCD.

Model T370HW01

Aspect Ratio
16 : 9

Resolution (pixel)
HDTV (1920 x 1080)

Active Area (mm)
819.36 x 460.89

Pixel Pitch (mm)
0.427

Mode
Premium MVA

Number of Colors
16.7M (8 bit)

Color Saturation (NTSC %)
72 (EBU=100%)

View Angle (H/V)
170 / 170

Brightness (cd/m²)
550

Contrast Ratio
800 : 1

Response Time (ms) (at 25°C)
8 (gray to gray)

Power Consumption (W)
150

Interface
2ch LVDS

Supply Voltage (V)
12

Light Source
20 CCFL

Outline Dimensions (mm)
894.8 x 527.4 x 50.7

Weight (g)
9,500

Production
Q1

From
http://www.cmo.com.tw/cmo/english/product/showtv.jsp?flag=20040804203848

The CMO 1080p 37" panel is also MVA

Model V370H1

Technology
Super MVA

Resolution
1920x1080

Pixel Pitch(mm)
0.4275x0.4275

Active Area(mm)
820.8x461.7

Outline(mm)
884.8x525.9x52.24

Luminance(nits)
550

View Angle (U/D/R/L)
88/88/88/88 (CR>20)

Contrast Ratio
> 600:1

Support Color
8bit, 16.7M

Color Saturation (NTSC)
75%

Response Time(ms)
12(Gray to Gray)

Weight (g)
9150

Power Consumption(W)
145

# of Lamps
CCFLx20

Electrical Interface
2-ch LVDS

Well it is available in Pamona and Victorville, but not in LA. That makes me surmise it is 1366x768. No offense to those in the inland empire.

It does not appear the Polaroid is actually 1920 x 1080.

The specs match neither of the two 1080p panels detailed above, the manual says it ain't, the availability says it ain't, etc.

I may try to see it later today if I can.

Stopped by CC today, they do not have this model on display, so I asked them to pull the box and bring it to the showroom.

Resolution of 1366x768 is clearly stated on the box.

Ric

Originally posted by rmommer
Stopped by CC today, they do not have this model on display, so I asked them to pull the box and bring it to the showroom.

Resolution of 1366x768 is clearly stated on the box.

Ric

The hunt for a third retail 1080p 37" LCD panel continues...

Based on the AUO/CMO data for their respective 1080p 37" panels, it looks like the BenQ might be preferable over the Westinghouse, as the BenQ's AUO panel is faster at 8ms and higher contrast than the CMO panel the Westinghouse 37" 1080p purportedly will use...

How come it's taking so long for 37 inch 1080P panels to get to the marketplace? Samsung and Sharp have had 46 and 45 inch 1080P panels for sale for 6 months now.

Originally posted by chavel
How come it's taking so long for 37 inch 1080P panels to get to the marketplace? Samsung and Sharp have had 46 and 45 inch 1080P panels for sale for 6 months now.

...But at premium prices. Patience, young apprentice ;).

The reasons the Westinghouse and BenQ 37" 1080p panels are causing such a stir are the new low price points to play in the 1080p sandbox.

Heck, for these prices, buy four 37" 1080p panels, tile them on a wall, and have a 4K display for about $8000 :D.

Originally posted by Rgb
Heck, for these prices, buy four 37" 1080p panels, tile them on a wall, and have a 4K display for about $8000 :D.

And have 4 inches of bezel between each dispay...

Originally posted by Rgb
Based on the AUO/CMO data for their respective 1080p 37" panels, it looks like the BenQ might be preferable over the Westinghouse, as the BenQ's AUO panel is faster at 8ms and higher contrast than the CMO panel the Westinghouse 37" 1080p purportedly will use...

Not to mention that the BenQ will be available months sooner.

Originally posted by tommylotto
And have 4 inches of bezel between each dispay...

5 home theater geek point demerits for tommylotto! ;)

It is *assumed* that anyone reading this forum would *know* how to remove the bezels and use the guts to make a tiled display :D.

The polaroid at circuit city is item no FLM-3701. It looks like it is available now in Baltimore. How do you figure out if it is CMO or AUO ?

CG

Originally posted by fredzy
The polaroid at circuit city is item no FLM-3701. It looks like it is available now in Baltimore. How do you figure out if it is CMO or AUO ?

CG

Since it has been decided that the FLM-3701 is not a 1080p unit (incorrect info on the CC web site) then it is not using either the CMO or AUO 1080p panel.

Ron Jones

It might be a new LG panel, or Samsung, or HannStar, or CPT, or....

an interview from CES in January.. interesting article.. Westinghouse is owned and operated by Viacom, and in association with Chi Mei Optoelectronics they are aggressively trying to grow the big screen market in the US.

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=30090

Jerry

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050511/cnw005.html?.v=5

Interesting quotes

announced today it has successfully turned on Taiwan's first 37" LCD TV panel produced by the Company's 6th generation ("G6") TFT and color filter production facility at its Taichung Science Park site.


. The 37'' is scheduled for mass production in June, timely to meet the next wave of demand of HDTV, which may be going into swing.

Striving for new technological breakthroughs for flat panel displays have been behind the company's success story. Apart from high color saturation and high contrast ratio capabilities, its latest self-developed GFI Technology displays picture quality equivalent to CRT under which the fast response time has been pushed further to under 4ms (Gray to Gray).

This ultra-high response time technology can decrease picture shadowing improving picture quality greatly, which is scheduled to commercialize by 3Q05.

Originally posted by tropicalisland
I saw and played with the Westinghouse 37" today at BestBuy. I suppose this model could be considered a good deal considering the price, but the picture overall was unimpressive to me even after tinkering with it. In fact I preferred the 32" model. Would like to hear impressions from anyone who takes this 37" home.

Thats a bit of a revelation. Youre saying the 37" model is at BB now?

ss

Guess it's Best Buy for lunch today ;).

Lots of Froogle hits on the 1080p 37" Westinghouse, though no one shows it in stock yet...

The 37" 1080p Westinghouse is not on bestbuy.com nor westinghousedigital.com yet...

I also saw the 37" on display at a local Best Buy. These seem to have landed in the northeast.

- David

Can't seem to find a 37" Westinghouse to look at FWIW.

Checked 3 BBs in charlotte, nc no luck. Would love to see one.

On a side note my girlfriend wants me to seek professional help :).

Is what's landed truly 1080p?

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Is what's landed truly 1080p?

Paul

I dont think Westinghouse proposed a 37" model that was not 1080p, so by default, it must be a 1080p model. Maybe?

If so, this is well ahead of best estimates found on this board so far. Kookie.

ss

Originally posted by mtmartin
Can't seem to find a 37" Westinghouse to look at FWIW.

Checked 3 BBs in charlotte, nc no luck. Would love to see one.

On a side note my girlfriend wants me to seek professional help :).

the first step is admitting the problem... :rolleyes:

No 37" Westinghouse at the Dearborn, MI Best Buy as of this afternoon...

I know there are many 37" 1366x768 models from other vendors out there, but I don't think Westinghouse has ever done a 768p 37" panel LCD. Unless they are slipping in a 768p 37 incher under the radar, these 37" sightings may be the first 1080p units on the street...

This is getting to be like UFO reports ;)

What other 1080p's are scheduled to hit the market?

Originally posted by bobmcclune
What other 1080p's are scheduled to hit the market?

In 37" model LCDs, theres the BenQ on Crutchfield's website. Unknown delivery date.

ss

If this is true, it's very surprising because even Westinghouse was reporting of late that the TV was delayed due to the lack of the Chi Mei panel it was to use.

So I don't know what to make of this ?!?

But if the picture is no good, it doesn't much matter, right? So let's hope one user's experience in Best Buy isn't determinative.

I checked with an employee at a Best Buy in Phoenix Arizona (Metro Center location). They're expecting to receive one Westinghouse 37" unit next week. She wasn't aware the unit was coming until I asked her to check.

Phoenix

So I wasn't crazy when I heard Best Buy was to get them on the 15th! To bad the first reviews are negative, I really wante dto get 37 inch at this price. Is BB offering it for under the 2k?

It's on display in Springfield Missouri. Not perfect, but pretty good.

At the BB in Newport News, VA comparing it to other near by displays, the pic on the Westy had more punch.

What is the current price on that BAD BOY?

Elvis *has* been spotted? ;)

Paul

WHAT IS THE STICKER AT BEST BUY? EVERYONE HAS SEEN IT...WERE YOU TOO MESMORIZED BY IT'S BEAUTY?

Originally posted by bobmcclune
WHAT IS THE STICKER AT BEST BUY? EVERYONE HAS SEEN IT...WERE YOU TOO MESMORIZED BY IT'S BEAUTY?

Welcome to the board neighbor! The MSRP is $2499 and its a few bucks less than that at BestBuy. Forum rules prohibit giving any price other than MSRP.
Forum Rules (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=488095)

To save you some trouble , none of the BestBuys in DE or the Philadelphia Suburbs have them in yet. I checked again today. :)

The East Palo Alto, CA Best Buy has them in stock, but can't put up a demo unit until someone buys one of the closeout sets on display there.

Is there a snowball's chance in hell that this panel will take a 1920X1080 PC input?

Originally posted by chavel
Is there a snowball's chance in hell that this panel will take a 1920X1080 PC input?

Yes I think there is.

ss

Saw it at BB in Woodland Hills. It looked good. It was sanwiched between a Sharp 37 and a Samsung 40. It looked like it belonged in the neigborhood... I asked to buy one, but they would only order one for me. I guess they only have display models at this point. He said I could connect my laptop to see how it works with a PC, but I had my 2 year old with me. There was no way I was going to be able to pull off that test with him climbing the walls.

Weird, my Best Buy had none on display but several in back. It'd be tempting to buy one, but I'd rather not go sight unseen.

They weren't even putting the 32 inchers on display last month.. one guy finally told me they are not putting new ones out until the old stock sells out.

Weird is right. I wonder if the BB in Marin County has any? I suppose if one bought one sight unseen and it really sucked it could be returned for a refund. I'd like to test it along side my Sharp 45GX since parents are in the market for a new set.

I've only tried 1 BB so far, but they did not have the 37 on display. They did have the 30 and 32. BB finally got the 37 on their website though, so that's a good sign.

I wonder if BB is worried aobut getting "stuck" with inventory on older models. When I checked at my local BB and found that they've got a unit coming in next week, I made a comment about "Hope you don't have too much inventory.". The manager who was checking for me kind of winced. At their pricepoints, these new 37" 1080 models seriously obsolete a lot of what they've got on the shelves.

Phoenix

I have never seen a 1080 LCD in person before, so I am anxious to see this set.

My concern is SD cable. If SD cable looks not-so-great on many 720 sets, whats going to have when its blown up to fill a 1080 set? I would guess it would look even worse. Also, what about 720 sources? Will they have to be scaled up to fit 1080 and therefore lose quality?

My main reason for wanting an HDTV is to watch sports. (I love you FSN HD) I'm pretty new to all this stuff, but I have always heard sports being broadcast in 720P. Are sports going to look worse on a 1080P panel than if I were to buy a 720P panel? The 37 sounds real good, since my TV stand has 37 1/2 inches of space, perfect for the 36 5/8" westinghouse, but if sports were going to look better on a 720P set, I think saving the $700 for a new reciever and buying the 32" would be better.

I'd bet sports would be just fine.

If you get the larger set, can you imagine yourself saying " ... gee, I wish I had gotten the smaller set. This thing is too large ... " ??? On the other hand, if you get the smaller set ...

I just checked with my BestBuy and they have them in stock but not on display. They said it would be another week before they put one up. It does make you think they are trying to sell other models first.

I looked at the BB website. The Westinghouse LCD says it has 2 DVI inputs but when you click on the 'View More Photos' link and see the connections panel, I only see 1 DVI input.

Also, the price on the BB website is $200 cheaper than I thought it would be.

The dork at BB was really crapping on the 37 Westinghouse and was trying to sell me a 32 Samsung at the same price. I came in there for a 1080p 37 Westinghouse and he tries to sell me a 32" 768p Samsung. When I told him to wrap up the Westinghouse, he says they have none for sale. Hummm... I smell a conspiracy.

The retailers can't keep these screens off the market for ever.

Originally posted by Mike4HDTV
I looked at the BB website. The Westinghouse LCD says it has 2 DVI inputs but when you click on the 'View More Photos' link and see the connections panel, I only see 1 DVI input.

Also, the price on the BB website is $200 cheaper than I thought it would be.

At the BB site, if you click the West. 37 then click the "enlarge photo" thingy, the in the photo pop-up click the "next" button at the bottom it will scroll through a few pics. One pic shows "DVI 1" along with component inputs, another pics (of the other side of the display) shows "DVI 2" with a couple other inputs. So it does indeed have 2 dvi ports just on opposite sides from each other.

None up for display at the two local BB around me. I inquired about them and one of the blue shirts said that they had them in...the other said they did not. Hmmm? They did say they could order them and have it by Thursday...I am wondering if I should go for the gusto?

Considering the resolution and size of the set it blows the others out of the water. The video processing is what I am uncertain about...I currently do not have HD, and I would rather not upgrade that until later...how do you think this set will fare on SD?

On another note...if you search for Westinghouse at BB.com you will not get a hit for the new set...you have to click Flat Panels and scroll/page through the category to get the hit.

I went to my local Best Buy to take another quick look today. The detachable speakers are a nice touch. The store was feeding the display a 720p signal, and the upscaled picture stood up well compared to the Sharp next to it. The colors looked decent, although the backlight and brightness could have been turned down a bit. I only had time to scan the menu and confirm the resolution that Best Buy was feeding over the component connection. Off-axis viewing didn't diminish quality by any appreciable amount, but most of the current generation LCDs seem to have viewing angles licked.

I think it would be a great budget 1080 display for frugal consumers who have the extra space for it. Best Buy's store price out my way also mirrors the on-line price. I'm not sure if that's a first-week thing, though.

- David

I too am wondering about the SD quality considering SD already looks only acceptable on my 30" 720 LCD. The Westinghouse 37" does have Faroudja on it so maybe that will help the quality of the SD.

I think it would be a great budget 1080 display for frugal consumers who have the extra space for it.

Umm.. I think this set would probably be great for anyone who doesn't believe in overpaying for products, not just "frugal" consumers.. After comparing a Winbook 32" lcd and a Sharp side by side, I'm sorry, but the extra $1k+ for a sharp sure isn't worth it. Maybe my eyes aren't super anal like some people's, but there wasn't a huge difference between the two, certainly not to warrant a price over 2x as much. The fact of the matter is that cheaper lcds are catching up quickly to the expensive name brand sets like Sony, Sharp, etc. I believe paying more for a quality product if it's worth it, but alot of the cheaper lcds look practically the same.

Like someone already said... I'm sure the 37" westinghouse will look better than alot of other panels out there since it has a very good signal processor. If you got the money and are looking to get a set now, then by all means this seems like a hell of a price. My only question now is whether to pick up a 32" winbook now, or wait another yr for the price of this to drop, etc.. tough decision..

Jmlkoho, keep in mind that the more you blown up a SD signal it's only going to get worse, but it's all up to what you can tolerate. On my 51" Sony projection SD looks "acceptable" to me, but I've sort of gotten used to it. Some channels definetly look like crap compared to dvds. On a 27" tv it looks clearer because it's not blown up.

It would be nice if Westinghouse had anything about this display on their own web site!!!

Is there a standard coaxial hook-up on this TV or will something need to be purchased in order to receive basic/standard cable?

Originally posted by bobmcclune
Is there a standard coaxial hook-up on this TV or will something need to be purchased in order to receive basic/standard cable?

I just posted this in your thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=540156) , but I'll post it again here in case anybody else has the same question.

According to the Best Buy website, this model has a built-in NTSC tuner, which will tune in all your analog cable stations. Digital/HD channels will require use of an external tuner box (either standalone or through your cable company).

EDIT: While it indicates that it does have an NTSC tuner built-in, the pictures of the back show no connection for a coax cable.

Note that the 37 is spec'd at 600 CR but the 32 at 1000 CR. Have not seen the 37 yet, and its also at 550 cd/m2 so that does not bode well for the blacks. It'll sell on the overlit BB showroom floor, though.

I get my HD signal from an OTA antenna. How would I get that signal without coaxial?

"I thought the 37" black levels looked inferior to the 32"

That is interesting - wonder if the panels are from different manufacturers, or whether the finer pixel pitch of the 37 affects CR.

Well I guess it really depends, but I've seen LCD's w/ a reported <600:1 contrast ratio and they look acceptable to me. I guess it all depends on the person. A lot of these lcds may also have the settings way off when looking in the stores, especially seeing as how these are very new. Contrast ratio #'s seem hard to judge imo, and are almost meaningless to a point, since some manufacturers inflate their #'s, and some don't.. Sharp's LCD which everyone raves about has a listed CR of 800:1, technically lower than the WH 32" w/ a CR of 1000:1, and Samsung's ALLEGED 3000:1 32" lcd...

My point is just to take a look at the panels for yourself, and you may have to "tweak" them a little to get the correct or better picture..

For people who are considering purchasing this tv, why would you spend $2k+ on a tv and then feed it such a ****** signal like analog cable..? It's like buying a porsche and putting in regular gas. LOL Just buy a cheap CRT or plasma tv and it'll look just as good.

bgbem, this tv doesn't have a built in tuner so any OTA hd channels would come from another hd receiver, which wouldn't send coax to the tv..

Originally posted by Mikeoz
Umm.. I think this set would probably be great for anyone who doesn't believe in overpaying for products, not just "frugal" consumers.

I appreciate your opinion, and I apologize if I offended you by using the word frugal, but I stand by my commentary. The reality is that you are sacrificing other features to get 1920x1080 at this price point. If Westinghouse had all of the features of LCD-TVs that are comparable in size, like a digital tuner, integrated cableCARD support, and at least one HDMI input (to name a few) and was able to keep the same price point, I would agree that this set would be very hard to beat. As it stands, there are other options available with more features. Do those features add to the cost? Of course. Are those features worth the cost? Well, that's a question each of us has to answer on our own.

I don't go around knocking anyone for choosing one display over another, I'm not sure I understand your vice against others who would choose to buy another LCD over the Westinghouse. Buy whatever display you can afford that has the features that are important to you. I do hope that Westinghouse continues to secure a place for itself, because that would lead to cheaper prices across the board.

Originally posted by Mikeoz
For people who are considering purchasing this tv, why would you spend $2k+ on a tv and then feed it such a ****** signal like analog cable..? It's like buying a porsche and putting in regular gas. LOL Just buy a cheap CRT or plasma tv and it'll look just as good.

Is it unreasonable to think, since this is marketed as an LCD-TV and not as an LCD computer monitor, that the set's basic TV functionality should be at least somewhat useful? I don't think so.

- David

My logic on trying to feed the standard SD signal (******) to the TV is because I am going to be stuck in my apartment for at least 4 more months after which I am going to upgrade to HD Antenna or Satellite. The SD signal will have to tide me over, but if it is not going to look good at all then I am going to think about another set or wait it out.

If someone has seen the SD signal feed on this 37" Westy model please let me know so I can make a decision on this model?

THANKS!~

This Westy model is a video monitor. It has no analog or digital RF input.

Try this URL:

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4032614

Originally posted by mark_1080p
"I thought the 37" black levels looked inferior to the 32"

That is interesting - wonder if the panels are from different manufacturers, or whether the finer pixel pitch of the 37 affects CR.

Considering LCDs are light valve products and light leakage(which kills black) occurs at the edges of the pixels primarily as I understand it, reducing pixel size would increase edge to center area and allow more leakage.

ss

I guess I should go back to Best Buy tonight and get a closer look. The specifications on Best Buy's website contradict J&R's listed specifications. Which website is correct?

- David

True, J&R correctly lists this as a video monitor.

Note also the reponse time of the 32 (8 ms) vs. that of the 37 (12 ms).

All the Sharp's are spec'd at 800:1 despite differences in rez.

It appears J&R is selling a monitor version (LVM-37W1) and BB a TV version (LTV-37W1). The model numbers are different.

My local BB has the 37w1 grouped with 3 other 37" HD displays. Its disappointing PQ is clearly the worst of the 4. The Sony plasma and the LG LCD fall in the middle. The Panny 7H-37PX50U plasma clearly blows the others away; surprisingly at 1024 x 720 it has the lowest resolution spec of the four. All were connected to the same HD feed via component.

Guess I'll be sticking with my 4-yr-old 38" F38310 awhile longer.

Good eye -wonder why J&R has it in the TV section ?

Here this will clear up the grey area surrounding this model. This came straight from Westinghouse Customer Service email.

Westinghouse stated: The 37" does not have a tuner built-in.
It is categorized as an HD Video Monitor rather than an HDTV.
There is only one model, the LVM-37w1.

Westinghouse Digital Support Staff

So there is no built-in tuner and Best Buy is wrong!

I'd be willing to venture a guess that a HD tuner version is coming in the near future. Maybe even with better specs (that would be nice)

I still have not seen one yet. I should be able to get a glance at one this weekend. Anyone seen one in the Kansas City Area?

PQ on the 37" in SD is a little shaky with Monster S-Video connection. I had mine delivered on Friday, the 13th and was a little disappointed with the SD PQ. The PQ via Monster HDMI/DVI for DVD was very sharp (480p). Have not has a lot of time to play with it yet but so far I am happy with the purchase. Best Buy received shipments of the 37" late last week to most of the warehouses in the country. Displays should be out very soon if not already. Hope this helps.

in my setup, i would be satisfied if the monitor performs for DVI at this resolution. if anyone gets one of these and hooks it up to a PC running MCE2005 and plays a stellar DVD on it, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE post your findings.

i own a sharp lc-37g4u and i absolutely love it. but my HTPC is taking over everything, including TV watching, DVDs, everything. i end up not using the HDMI interface on the TV (component audio goes to my receiver). i'm guessing my setup is common among many of us.

the sharp sets, IMO, a high bar in PQ. if the westy comes close it will be a knockout seller, IMO.

Originally posted by cjv123
in my setup, i would be satisfied if the monitor performs for DVI at this resolution. if anyone gets one of these and hooks it up to a OC running MCE2005 and plays a stellar DVD on it, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE post your findings.

i own a sharp lc-37g4u and i absolutely love it. but my HTPC is taking over everything, including TV watching, DVDs, everything. i end up not using the HDMI interface on the TV (component audio goes to my receiver). i'm guessing my setup is common among many of us.

the sharp sets, IMO, a high bar in PQ. if the westy comes close it will be a knockout seller, IMO.

cjv - what kind of video card are you running in your HTPC? Will your card be able to handle the resolution of the Westinghouse? And, if it can, do you think your video card/software combination would handle the scaling better than sending a raw signal to the monitor? I am assuming you are sending only native resolution to the monitor?

Thanks,
Jerry

jerry-

i have an nvidia 6600 set at the resolution of 1360 x 768 running "native" pixel-by-pixel to my sharp via DVI. it works absolutely perfectly. i downloaded the microsoft 720p and 1080p HD test clips (of T2, etc) and they all played perfectly. i can also play widescreen DVDs via MCE and they look great. i think i understand the enormity of 1920 x 1068 in terms of number-crunching but i have read some reviews of the nvidia and they seem to suggest it can handle it- anyway, i'm going to buy another PC for the westy if i were to buy it so i'd switch to the expensive radeon if that was needed.

So has anyone been able to purchase one of these 37" 19x10p LCD yet or haven't they been released yet?

My 37" was delivered on Friday. Purchased from BB in Dallas area.

Trae-

Can you give us a Full Review of the TV when you get a chance. I currently do not have HD and I am really not concerned about it since I mostly use my TV for movies and gaming.

I currently have DVD, DVR and xbox hooked up to my TV through component hook-ups. All 3 are also on optical audio through my Harman/Kardon receiver and surround sound. Most of the time these are the items that I use...I only have standard cable which provides a decent number of channels no HD...I know that the above 3 will all go great with this TV, but I am concerned about the standard cable signal. How will this TV work on the standard cable signal?

I only get 12 HD channels in my area so I do not see the need to pay for an upgrade to get 12 lowsy channels. Let me know what is up and a throrough review once you get a chance!

i have an nvidia 6600 set at the resolution of 1360 x 768 running "native" pixel-by-pixel to my sharp via DVI. it works absolutely perfectly. i downloaded the microsoft 720p and 1080p HD test clips (of T2, etc) and they all played perfectly. i can also play widescreen DVDs via MCE and they look great. i think i understand the enormity of 1920 x 1068 in terms of number-crunching but i have read some reviews of the nvidia and they seem to suggest it can handle it- anyway, i'm going to buy another PC for the westy if i were to buy it so i'd switch to the expensive radeon if that was needed.

_________________________

A lot of us have been driving the Sharp 45GX6U direct to panel at 1920 X1080 60Hz with a variety of video cards since last October. We know that the Nividia 5200 series will not work. People have reported a 1920X1080 desktop using a 3 year old powerbook which I believe only has a 32 meg 7500 series ATI card. So it's probably not the absolute power of the card but more the DVI compliance that makes a difference. See the Sharp LC-45GX6U Owners Thread in this forum.

And somebody please try driving this new puppy at 1920X1080P with a PC ASAP.

Originally posted by chavel

And somebody please try driving this new puppy at 1920X1080P with a PC ASAP. [/B]

Yes, I also would like to know this. How well do these monitors work and look for PC in Windows at 19x10 native?

chavel-

thanks for the update. i actually realized after i posted i should wade thru the daddy sharp's thread for an idea of viewing a 19 x 10 LCD as TV via an HTPC.

Yes, I also would like to know this. How well do these monitors work and look for PC in Windows at 19x10 native?
___________________________

If it's anything like the Sharp 45GX. It will look like a million in small change. Might be better because the pixel density is going to be higher for the 37 inch panel.

I just called BestBuy here. Closest one that does have the new Westinghouse 37" 19x10p instock is 120miles away. I'll wait till my local BB has it instock for me to look at I guess. I don't feel like going that far. Plus I'll be out of town for 2 weeks starting next Monday so I won't have any time to mess with it.

Still waiting for someone to tell us how well this monitor works on a PC in Windows and such......<taps foot>

Not to go way off topic but I wonder if this TV uses the same LCD, specs seem similar...
http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number=20160200236

Originally posted by Destroy
I just called BestBuy here. Closest one that does have the new Westinghouse 37" 19x10p instock is 120miles away. I'll wait till my local BB has it instock for me to look at I guess. I don't feel like going that far. Plus I'll be out of town for 2 weeks starting next Monday so I won't have any time to mess with it.

Still waiting for someone to tell us how well this monitor works on a PC in Windows and such......<taps foot>

Not to go way off topic but I wonder if this TV uses the same LCD, specs seem similar...
http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number=20160200236

I think the Olevia is really a 1366 panel, but accepts a 1920 signal. Tiger Direct has the Olevia 37 and lists it as 1366 (37HVE model) the link above lists 37HV model but I don't think the res differs.

Originally posted by ZZen
I think the Olevia is really a 1366 panel, but accepts a 1920 signal. Tiger Direct has the Olevia 37 and lists it as 1366 (37HVE model) the link above lists 37HV model but I don't think the res differs.


Do a Google search. HVE does indeed seem to be different than the HV, and the difference is the resolution. Odd thing is Olevia's web site doesn't list the HV; course Westinghouse doesn't list 37w1 either so who the heck knows for sure.

With this new news about the PS3 running at 1080p, we need to have someone hook up this Westy to a PC, ASAP!!!!

This being one of the first lower-priced 1080p displays, we need to know through what ports (DVI, VGA, Component) will this TV accept 1080p. Anyone who's got one, PLEASE, take the PC you are reading this post with, and plug the dang thing into your LTV-37w1 and tell us what happens...

Are there any "expert" reviews of the new Westy 1080p 37" LCD?
*if so can you post a link...

So who has seen this TV in the store? How does it compare to the other brands on the shelf? If you have taken this TV home and played with it post your impressions please...thanks! My BB still does not have one in...

We're going to try and get one today at the local BB. There is a slight chance that I'll have it set up next to the Sharp 45 tonight and I'll jack in the HTPC that is driving the Sharp at 1080P.

I saw this at my local BB yesterday, but I only had a few minutes. They only had a HD feed and the salesman said it was a re-broadcast HD feed, whatever that means.
I commented to him that the picture seem to be set at a very high contrast. He said this monitor was set at factory settings and since he didn't have a remote, he quickly went through the menu items by pushing some buttons on the side of the screen.

As you can imagine, with that many pixels in a 37 inch screen, there was absolutely no way to detect the pixels even very close up. They had a Sharp 37" on display as well, but it was about 20 feet away and so not close enough to do a good side by side comparison. Looking back and forth between the two though, it seemed the Westy compared favorably to the Sharp. The colors were very good and I couldn't detect any ghosting or lagging in the display on fast moving scenes.

The contrast was definitely a problem though. One scene showed Tiger Wood's head with a dark cap on fairly close up. While the Sharp had some detail in this very dark area, all the Westy displayed was one big black area. But, as I said, it was apparent the contrast was set way too high and needed some adjustment.

I may go back in a couple days and see if I can play with it,.. I will also see if they can give me a look with another feed beside the not-so-great HD feed they have.

Jerry

Stupid quick question, what does "HTPC" stand for? thanks.

HTPC = Home Theater Personal Computer

I saw the Westy today at BB in Irving, Texas. I was fairly impressed, enough in fact to be slightly upset in that I just purchased a Sharp 32" Aquos about a month ago. I also have an older Westinghouse (the 30 inch) which I purchased year. While it's not as terrible (in my opinion) as many have said, it's not great either; this colored my opinion of the Westinghouse brand. Having said that, this new 37" model appears to be miles from the older ones. I played with the menu options and the first thing you can do is turn down the backlight (this is why I like the Sharp) and that helps get the black level down. I'm fairly confident an hour or so with Digital Video Essentials (the DVD and the D-VHS versions) would be all it would take to fix this set up. I would like to see what (if any) service menu selections are available (like the Aquos's ability to adjust the color matrices).

All in all I walked away impressed.

I am also going looking for this set after work...I will let you know how if fares against the other models. Yesterday the were preparing the spot for it today it should be up and running. I will give a review once I see it in person.

Originally posted by bobmcclune
I am also going looking for this set after work...I will let you know how if fares against the other models. Yesterday the were preparing the spot for it today it should be up and running. I will give a review once I see it in person.

I'm assuming you went to the 202 store, I saw the empty spot yesterday. :) Let me know when they have the display up and I'll stop by. I may check with BB to see if I can hook up a demo and drive a 1080i signal from a MyHD recording. I think the BB runs a 720p signal.

I've recorded the World Series and would love to see how that looks on it.

Si senor...I was there today...they told me that it was supposed to be in today, but now they have no clue when it is coming. The store on rt. 2 does not have them either...

I got a business card and I am going to call until they have it in stock...let me know if you see it. I work practically across the street so I can go over there at lunch.

Wow, I finally saw one. BB by me got one in and had it hooked up to a 1080i video feed through component cables.

The guy at the store told me that seeing as though the feed was 1080i, the Westy had to scale it down to 720p since LCD can't do interlacing, this true?

There was a Panasonic 37 $2999.00 plasma right above the Westy for comparison.

Anyway, I'm sorry to say but I was rather disappointed in the overall picture quality and performance of the Westy.

The blacks were very grey compared to the Panny and even though the Westy obviously had much higher resolution, the Westy picture was very blurry . It looked like everything on the Westy screen was slightly out of focus; not crisp and sharp. Resolution was very nice; screen image was much more full and picture like cause the pixels were ALOT less obvious.

Also the ghosting was very apparent during even the slowest video movement on the Westy.

I just started playing with the display controls a bit but the sales guy didn't like it much so I stopped. I hope the Sharpness value was way out of wack or something to cause that blurryness. That blurryness was the biggest issue I can see with this Westy so far.

So in the end, I think I will wait it out. This first generation 19x10p LCD has too many issues for my taste.

Originally posted by Destroy

The guy at the store told me that seeing as though the feed was 1080i, the Westy had to scale it down to 720p since LCD can't do interlacing, this true?

It likely doesnt do interlaced dispaly but it should be trying to de-interlace 1080i to 1080p.

ss

Originally posted by Destroy
Wow, I finally saw one. BB by me got one in and had it hooked up to a 1080i video feed through component cables.

The guy at the store told me that seeing as though the feed was 1080i, the Westy had to scale it down to 720p since LCD can't do interlacing, this true?

There was a Panasonic 37 $2999.00 plasma right above the Westy for comparison.

Anyway, I'm sorry to say but I was rather disappointed in the overall picture quality and performance of the Westy.

The blacks were very grey compared to the Panny and even though the Westy obviously had much higher resolution, the Westy picture was very blurry . It looked like everything on the Westy screen was slightly out of focus; not crisp and sharp. Resolution was very nice; screen image was much more full and picture like cause the pixels were ALOT less obvious.

Also the ghosting was very apparent during even the slowest video movement on the Westy.

I just started playing with the display controls a bit but the sales guy didn't like it much so I stopped. I hope the Sharpness value was way out of wack or something to cause that blurryness. That blurryness was the biggest issue I can see with this Westy so far.

So in the end, I think I will wait it out. This first generation 19x10p LCD has too many issues for my taste.

Destroy,
I see you took my advise from rage3d and came on over to the AVS.:)
Sounds kind of disappointing if this is true because I was blown away by the 32" Westinghouse compared to all others in that catagory.

Originally posted by subysouth
It likely doesnt do interlaced dispaly but it should be trying to de-interlace 1080i to 1080p.

ss

But how can you tell for sure what the TV is outputing to the screen?

Originally posted by Destroy
But how can you tell for sure what the TV is outputing to the screen?

The specs of the panel should list its native rate(what it outputs to the screen,) however what it does with each signal before it gets to the screen can be a lot more difficult to track down.

ss

Destroy,

Sheesh. Fire that Best Buy employee. Scale it "down" to 720p?

Does he even read the specs on his products? The Westinghouse has Faroudja's DCDi deinterlacing technology. It's a 1920x1080 panel, so it simply has to deinterlace the 1080i signal.

The deinterlacing tech it's using is fine, so that shouldn't be a source of trouble. The "grey" blacks, however, are an entirely different issue.

Phoenix

i wouldn't worry about "grey blacks" until some one who knows what they are doing calibrates the image on the Westy using proper test signals and gear. All TVs on the display floor are pumped up to produce the brightest image.

Bought one last night; got a free portable DVD player and 3 DVDs at BB. I thought it was a pretty good deal. I bought the one that was shipped to the store to set up as the display.

The first thing I tried was to get it connected to my HTPC running 1920x1080. I think the system had some viruses (previous strangeness) and perhaps the plug and 'pray' caused the system to pick up some infected drivers; but regardless, hooking up the westy caused a system meltdown! I know, I know, it sounds retarded. I'm sure my htpc probably had other issues. I did get a screen up at one point but it was overscaned. I was quite clear, however.

I had to fall back to the old DVD player. I watched the Incredibles and well, it was incredible! I have a feeling that movie would look on my Dad's old tube type RCA. The DVD has that TXH Optimizer. I used it to adjust the brightness and backlighting. You really have to crank the backlight down to get close to a real black. I'm coming from a Phillips direct view so nothing lcd will probably be black enough for me but I'll get used to it. I also noticed that it doesn't look as black if you get off angle. I also wanted to crank the saturation down, but that could be a matter of taste.

It had some sync issues with the (non-progressive) DVD feed. This makes me worry that my unit may be defective. It was rock solid during to movie, but flaked out during the credits (which is mainly white on black). Weird.

I was able to watch some true hidef using the MyHD card just before the htpc meltdown. NBC, witch is broadcast at 1080i had serious problems with colors bleeding off to the right. FOX (720p) looked great. The bleeding went away if I dropped the MyHD card down to 720p. I get the feeling that the westy has a problem with interlaced input. Again, it may be defective.

My subjective view point so far is that the TV is well worth the money. The clarity, resolution and perfect geometry is a big improvement for me. I hope I can get the overscan issue figured out and get a perfect pc desktop to lcd mapping over DVI. I fear that the westy has too much "smart electronics" in the way. There was no adjustment for screen size, only position, and that's only when using VGA.

She ain't perfect... but I haven't given up on her yet. :-)

Well to be fair, it was a plasma that I could closest compare the Westy to so it will look grey. Plus, I judging the black level pretty harshly cause I'm most interested in using this TV as a PC monitor and am use to nice black PC LCDs.

But that blurry issue is still annoying. My friend just ordered one of the Westys to test out and mainly hook up to his PC. I'll be visiting his house as soon as he gets the TV and report back.

Originally posted by rhenry74
to my HTPC running 1920x1080. caused a system meltdown!

Arg, still no person with PC feedback on this thing. Heh.

rhenry posted some problems with his HTPC above...? I am more concerned about the DVD content and the xbox gaming speeds on this. I am hesitent do to ghosting and slower response times on an LCD...? Anyone do any Halo 2 on this set yet?

rhenry...?

I currently only have SD cable with an intention to move to Direct TV HD content here soon. Does this set have any option for hooking up standard analog coaxial cable to tide me over until I am out of this apartment?

Originally posted by PhoenixScreen
Does he even read the specs on his products? The Westinghouse has Faroudja's DCDi deinterlacing technology. It's a 1920x1080 panel, so it simply has to deinterlace the 1080i signal.
From what I have read at the forum, most sets do not deinterlace 1080i to 1080p, they convert to 540p first. Then again, those are the 720p or 768p sets. Does this set properly deinterlace 1080i ?

Mark,

I "assumed" based on the advertised "Faroudja DCDi deinterlacing technology" that it deinterlaces.

However, you know what they say about the word assume....:rolleyes: .

So, I do not know for certain.

Phoenix

Originally posted by mark_1080p
From what I have read at the forum, most sets do not deinterlace 1080i to 1080p, they convert to 540p first. Then again, those are the 720p or 768p sets. Does this set properly deinterlace 1080i ?

Agreed. For this price, it *probably* bobs 1080i to 540p over anjalog component, then scales the 540p to 1080p for the panel. But if we are lucky, it might do 3:2 pulldown on 1080i analog component inputs from progressive (i.e. film or 1080p camera) sources. Still wouldn't help 1080i video from 1080i cameras.

Not that bobbing 1080i is a bad thing for this price ;).

Someone with a myHD card and 1080i *.ts/tp file test patterns that are floating around the net may be able to deduce what the Westy 37" 1080p panel is doing with 1080i analog component inputs (and DVI and RGB analog, for that matter). The Westy probably handles 1080i differently depending on which input- analog component, digital DVi, and analog RGB.

A simpler check might be to simply connect a PC to the analog VGA input, or even better, an ATI 9800 series card via component dongle, setting the desktop to 1920x1080i (use the Force 1080i setting buried in the ATi control panel applet). Use this test pattern tiled on the desktop to inspect pixel mapping capability and/or scaling/bobbing effects:

http://www.marky.com/files/hometheater/testpatterns/tracking-and-phase.gif

With analog RGB and a good quality, 75 ohm coax shielded VGA cable, you should be able to 1:1 pixel map 1920x1080, then change the desktop to 1080i and see what happens.

bobmcclune,

I know it has an svideo input and I'm pretty sure it has an (rca) composite input as well. I'll have to verify this tonight.

It does not have an internal TV tuner... no cable bnc connection.

I did not try these inputs so I can't speak to picture quality yet. I have standard definition DirectTV as well so I'll post an opinion.

Also, I noticed no ghosting. I wasn't looking for it, but I figured the action scenes in The Incredibles would have made it show up.

Destroy,

I didn't think it was blurry. I did move the sharpness up a few notches from is factory (most blurry) setting. This said, it's probably a good idea to consider what I'm coming from... a 4 year old 30" wide screen crt... that was blurry!

Originally posted by PhoenixScreen
Destroy,

Sheesh. Fire that Best Buy employee. Scale it "down" to 720p?

Does he even read the specs on his products? The Westinghouse has Faroudja's DCDi deinterlacing technology. It's a 1920x1080 panel, so it simply has to deinterlace the 1080i signal.

The deinterlacing tech it's using is fine, so that shouldn't be a source of trouble. The "grey" blacks, however, are an entirely different issue.

Phoenix

I do agree the Faroudja version is one of the best de-interlacers out there BUT anytime you are creating content(de-interlacing 1080i video-based for instance) there are going to be some errors in the leaps of faith, and it gets worse the higher the motion.

ss

Still no Westy in Wilmington...(as of 12:00 PM 5/18/05)

The BBD (Best Buy Droid) at the Dearborn, MI store said they have one 37" Westinghouse on the back dock. He did a visual as I waited.

He estimated they would set it up later this week.

I really doubt this TV does a true 1080i deinterlace. There is nothing this inexpensive that has that good a deinterlacer in it.

I'm not saying no, but I'm very skeptical.

Originally posted by rogo
I really doubt this TV does a true 1080i deinterlace. There is nothing this inexpensive that has that good a deinterlacer in it.

I'm not saying no, but I'm very skeptical.

Assuming progressive source 1080i video is flagged properly, deinterlacing to 1080p shouldn't require much horsepower at all, though I don't know what off the shelf deinterlacing IC's are capable of currently.

With dual core Athlon 64 CPU's hitting the streets, it probably won't be too long before new FFdshow/Scaler releases enable PC's to deinterlace even video source 1080i :D.

... makes me wonder if the Sharp 45 does it ...

Originally posted by Rgb
Assuming progressive source 1080i video is flagged properly, deinterlacing to 1080p shouldn't require much horsepower at all, though I don't know what off the shelf deinterlacing IC's are capable of currently.

With dual core Athlon 64 CPU's hitting the streets, it probably won't be too long before new FFdshow/Scaler releases enable PC's to deinterlace even video source 1080i :D.

You mean film-based progessive source at 24fps? If so, yes thats quite a bit more straightforward than video-based 1080i de-interlacing, which requires magic.

ss

Originally posted by bobmcclune
rhenry posted some problems with his HTPC above...? I am more concerned about the DVD content and the xbox gaming speeds on this. I am hesitent do to ghosting and slower response times on an LCD...? Anyone do any Halo 2 on this set yet?

I have a 26" LCD with a response time of 16ms. This Westinghouse has a response time of 12ms. I use my 26" for PC gaming and Xbox gaming, with little to no ghosting at all. I can't speak for the other aspects of picture quality, but response time should not be an issue.

Would you say that the pic quality and response time would be acceptable for xbox games like Halo 2?

Just got back from viewing the Westy at our local BestBuy .

I have to say the I am very unimpressed.

Was next to the Sharp 30" which showed great contrast and sharpness.


The Westy appeared to be blurry all the time. Ghosting was apparent on fast moving scenes, if you could call it that (DEMO WAS PGA TOUR) and Monster garage from Discovery.

Connected via component.


Settings appeared off also but I didn't feel like helping out WorstBuy.


Demo material was running through a Sencore @1080i.



I can't see how you could play any games on it let alone watch a snail moving.


Sticker price $2300.

Originally posted by georgeorwell
I have a 26" LCD with a response time of 16ms. This Westinghouse has a response time of 12ms. I use my 26" for PC gaming and Xbox gaming, with little to no ghosting at all. I can't speak for the other aspects of picture quality, but response time should not be an issue.

I've come to find that manufacture specs mean not a whole lot. They are fudging and manipulating them to whatever advantage they can to make their TV look better.

That being said, there was easily obvious motion bluring/ghosting on the Westy I saw last night.

So the 37 is a different animal than the 32 ? I was impressed with the 32 for the price, and the 32 does have higher spec'd cr at 1000, response time of 8 ms.

Originally posted by Rgb
Assuming progressive source 1080i video is flagged properly, deinterlacing to 1080p shouldn't require much horsepower at all, though I don't know what off the shelf deinterlacing IC's are capable of currently.

With dual core Athlon 64 CPU's hitting the streets, it probably won't be too long before new FFdshow/Scaler releases enable PC's to deinterlace even video source 1080i :D.

Most deinterlacers do not do 3:2 pulldown on 1080i sources. So, again, I doubt the Westinghouse does. And for video sourced 1080i, well...

Dual cores Athlons are hundreds of dollars; deinterlacers in TVs are around $10, by the way.

The official specs are up on the Westinghouse Digital Website

Here is the link: http://www.westinghousedigital.com/products/monitors/prod-37w1.shtml

Let me know what everyone thinks...differs from the previous postings now with 1000:1 contrast, and other features included the 3:2 pull down. There is no manual out for this model yet, but there is NO COAXIAL, it also DOES NOT HAVE A BUILT IN TUNER, and looking at the "Quick Connect" PDF there is 2 DVI inputs one for 1080p and one for 1080i (not sure why?).

Quick Connect PDF link:
http://www.westinghousedigital.com/support/downloads/qConnect/37w1-qConn.pdf

The Quick Connect says up to 1080P on DVI1, 1080I on DVI2, Woohoo!

I am glad that it will support a multitude of inputs. I am a little upset no built in tuner...but that is fine. I will just have to restructure my wiring. Back to the flow chart with this baby

Originally posted by rogo
Most deinterlacers do not do 3:2 pulldown on 1080i sources. So, again, I doubt the Westinghouse does. And for video sourced 1080i, well...

Dual cores Athlons are hundreds of dollars; deinterlacers in TVs are around $10, by the way.

Agreed on both counts. There was a Toshiba 720p DLP front projector about two years ago that did 3:2 pulldown/weave on progressive source 1080i video. This leads to a 33% increase in resolution over 720p projectors that only bob 1080i video from progressive source. I assume there are more current projectors that do 3:2 pulldown on 1080i progressive source video.

Re: film vs 1080p camera sources- I would think that 1080p 24/30fps camera source 1080i video signals could also be weaved back together in a 720p/1080p display, assuming it is flagged properly, or the deinterlacing chip could detect the cadence, just as the Dscaler software deinterlacer for PC's can detect 480p 30fps (rather than 24fps film) source 480i video and reconstruct the progressive frames accordingly.

Originally posted by rogo
I really doubt this TV does a true 1080i deinterlace. There is nothing this inexpensive that has that good a deinterlacer in it.

I'm not saying no, but I'm very skeptical.

You are most likely basing your opinion on current flat screen technologies.. but look at what the people who are using state of the art HTPC's with video cards in the $200-300 are reporting .. super high quality scaling.. any manufacturer that can bring these new technologies to market faster are going to be way ahead of the game.

The screens by the big names on the market today are probably a year or so behind today's leading edge software.

Jerry

Originally posted by Rgb
Agreed on both counts. There was a Toshiba 720p DLP front projector about two years ago that did 3:2 pulldown/weave on progressive source 1080i video. This leads to a 33% increase in resolution over 720p projectors that only bob 1080i video from progressive source. I assume there are more current projectors that do 3:2 pulldown on 1080i progressive source video.

Re: film vs 1080p camera sources- I would think that 1080p 24/30fps camera source 1080i video signals could also be weaved back together in a 720p/1080p display, assuming it is flagged properly, or the deinterlacing chip could detect the cadence, just as the Dscaler software deinterlacer for PC's can detect 480p 30fps (rather than 24fps film) source 480i video and reconstruct the progressive frames accordingly.

There are surprisingly few projectors that do more than bobbing of 1080i. But even weaving is pretty poor compared to motion compensation or motion adaptivity.

Unfortunately, deinterlacing video-sourced 1080i right now is voodoo and difficult. Bobbing is the poor man's solution and is nearly ubiquitous.

This will change over time, of course, as a new $10 part allows for motion-compensated deinterlacing at least... But that time hasn't come yet and it would stun me to learn there is much sophistication going on in the Westinghous.

Re: the comment about the specs claiming 3:2 pulldown, I'm sure it does that on 480i. I doubt it does it on 1080i. And since many, many other displays claim 3:2 pulldown on the spec sheets when they are only referring to 480i, absent an explicit claim of 3:2 on 1080i itself, I'd again say it doesn't do it.

Mark

Any more thoughts now that the specs are out.

Originally posted by Rgb
Re: film vs 1080p camera sources- I would think that 1080p 24/30fps camera source 1080i video signals could also be weaved back together in a 720p/1080p display, assuming it is flagged properly, or the deinterlacing chip could detect the cadence, just as the Dscaler software deinterlacer for PC's can detect 480p 30fps (rather than 24fps film) source 480i video and reconstruct the progressive frames accordingly.

I dont follow exactly what youre saying there Rgb. AFAIK film cameras capture at 24fps against variable resolution based on how the film is later scanned. HD Video cameras capture at 720p/60 and 1080i/30. So what is the 1080p 24/30fps you are referring to?

AFAIK all video-based HD camera capture and display operates at 60Hz, either field(1080i) or frame(720p.) The only reason we are able to pull full frames from 1080i on film based stock is its inherently lower 24fps rate. Native video capture doesnt have that luxury AFAIK.

ss

Specs look good but what I saw seemed alot different.

My friend is having his Westy 37 delivered this morning. I'll be visiting him this evening after work to fully check it out on PC. I'll report back ASAP.

Originally posted by rogo
There are surprisingly few projectors that do more than bobbing of 1080i. But even weaving is pretty poor compared to motion compensation or motion adaptivity.

Unfortunately, deinterlacing video-sourced 1080i right now is voodoo and difficult. Bobbing is the poor man's solution and is nearly ubiquitous.

This will change over time, of course, as a new $10 part allows for motion-compensated deinterlacing at least... But that time hasn't come yet and it would stun me to learn there is much sophistication going on in the Westinghous.

Re: the comment about the specs claiming 3:2 pulldown, I'm sure it does that on 480i. I doubt it does it on 1080i. And since many, many other displays claim 3:2 pulldown on the spec sheets when they are only referring to 480i, absent an explicit claim of 3:2 on 1080i itself, I'd again say it doesn't do it.

Mark


I am getting more confused. What specifically are your first 2 sentences referring to Mark? Video or film-based 1080i? If film-based I cant see how motion compenstaion or adaptive would be better than de-interlacing via a correct weaving?

So just a recap:

Bobbing basically using a field instead of a frame to render a new full frame correct?

Weaving is what is supposed to be done in 3:2 pulldown where the 2 fields sourced from the same frame are weaved back together correct?



So as I understood it bobbing is bad, weaving is good. Weaving on film based material can yield full frames as they were originally captured(albeit at the slightly wrong 3:2 cadence.)

I was unaware that few displays did 1080i 3:2 pulldown on film-based stock, but I guess now that I'm thinking about, I can see little actual source for 1080i film-based stock and even less chance its flagged right.

1080i 3:2 pulldown on film-based content SHOULD be fairly straightforward though correct? I know de-interlacing video-based 1080i is voodoo because of the content creation necessary.


So this brings me to another bit of confusion. If most progressive displays are bobbing 1080i by using the 540 fields to upscale off of, why all the anecdotal info here that 1080i HD looks better on 1366x768 panels than 720p? I cant see how "1920x540" field source would look better than "1280x720" full frame source.

ss

Originally posted by subysouth
I dont follow exactly what youre saying there Rgb. AFAIK film cameras capture at 24fps against variable resolution based on how the film is later scanned. HD Video cameras capture at 720p/60 and 1080i/30. So what is the 1080p 24/30fps you are referring to?

AFAIK all video-based HD camera capture and display operates at 60Hz, either field(1080i) or frame(720p.) The only reason we are able to pull full frames from 1080i on film based stock is its inherently lower 24fps rate. Native video capture doesnt have that luxury AFAIK.

ss

I know that most HD videocams are 1080i and/or 720p, but Lucas used a 2.2Mpixel 24p/30p capable HD video camera for Episode II

http://www.rgb-productions.com/rgb/sony%20hdw-f900.htm

An even newer digital video camera was used for Episode III.

While Lucas probably shot in 24p, the possibility for 30p 2.2 megapixel HD video still exists. Plus, I also had 720p cross converted to 1080i in mind when I posted the above comment. I would assume that 720p source 1080i video could be weaved back to reconstitute the original 720p frames with minimal resolution (scaling artifacts notwithstanding) loss and little CPU horsepower needed.

Originally posted by subysouth
I am getting more confused. What specifically are your first 2 sentences referring to Mark? Video or film-based 1080i? If film-based I cant see how motion compenstaion or adaptive would be better than de-interlacing via a correct weaving?

So just a recap:

Bobbing basically using a field instead of a frame to render a new full frame correct?

Weaving is what is supposed to be done in 3:2 pulldown where the 2 fields sourced from the same frame are weaved back together correct?



So as I understood it bobbing is bad, weaving is good. Weaving on film based material can yield full frames as they were originally captured(albeit at the slightly wrong 3:2 cadence.)

I was unaware that few displays did 1080i 3:2 pulldown on film-based stock, but I guess now that I'm thinking about, I can see little actual source for 1080i film-based stock and even less chance its flagged right.

1080i 3:2 pulldown on film-based content SHOULD be fairly straightforward though correct? I know de-interlacing video-based 1080i is voodoo because of the content creation necessary.


So this brings me to another bit of confusion. If most progressive displays are bobbing 1080i by using the 540 fields to upscale off of, why all the anecdotal info here that 1080i HD looks better on 1366x768 panels than 720p? I cant see how "1920x540" field source would look better than "1280x720" full frame source.

ss

I was also confused by the weave vs adaptive deinterlacing comment. For progressive source (film or progressive HD camera), weaving two fields from the same source frame *should* yield the best deinterlacing results in this case.

Why should 1080i source deinterlacing be "voodoo"? Shouldn't it be no different than 480i source deinterlacing, with simply 6 times the pixels? Just use six 480i adaptive deinterlacing chips to do 1080i source deinterlacing :D. Though I understand what you guys mean- that there is no consensus on how to deinterlace 480i/1080i source video "properly", i.e. there are a lot of different opinions, technical methods, and algorithms out there.

re: 1080i looking better on 768p panels-

Perhaps the increased horizontal resolution helps? Plus, some displays may indeed do 3:2 pulldown from film source 1080i. I have heard conflicting reports that my AE700 projector does it. Based on my viewing, I tend to believe it does, but it trips up occasionally- bad flags or algorithm?

Something similar to the 1080i-vs-720p-on-768p-displays clarity effect was reported over a year ago on the HTPC forum- many forum members remarked how 1080p WM9 video looked better on their 720p displays than the same material encoded as 720p. Both 1080p and 720p version of the same video are available on the Wm9 HD video DVD releases, mostly Imax releases.

Some speculated that scaling down a higher-than-720p resolution for their 720p display caused not only a reduction in 1080p detail, but also a reduction in 1080p *noise*. Hence, 1080p downscaled for their 720p displays had less noise in the signal than the 720p native versions of the same video, making it appear to have more apparent detail. Maybe something similar is going on with 1080i on the 1360x768 panels?

re: availability of film source 1080i material-

HD movies broadcast on CBS, NBC, PBS, WB, UPN, Showtime, HBO, and others have been large sources of 1080i film source programs.

Originally posted by Rgb
I know that most HD videocams are 1080i and/or 720p, but Lucas used a 2.2Mpixel 24p/30p capable HD video camera for Episode II

http://www.rgb-productions.com/rgb/sony%20hdw-f900.htm

An even newer digital video camera was used for Episode III.

While Lucas probably shot in 24p, the possibility for 30p 2.2 megapixel HD video still exists.

We should probably start a whole new thread about this but 1080/30p is just about useless as we currently function. Theaters are based on 48Hz(24fps) projectors and there's a huge installed base there. So its gotta be 24fps for theater display at least for the forseeable future. Secondly you would have to have broadcasters supplied with a second variant(30fps) which would technically not reflect the movie makers originally intent(or there would be 2 intents) then have that captured, interlaced and flagged correctly for delivery to a device that could then make sense of it using 2:2 pulldown for display at 60Hz.

Its doable I think, but the problem lies in that transfer from movie house rate to video rate. There's a lot of hardware/software inertia against it.

Plus, I also had 720p cross converted to 1080i in mind when I posted the above comment. I would assume that 720p source 1080i video could be weaved back to reconstitute the original 720p frames with minimal resolution (scaling artifacts notwithstanding) loss and little CPU horsepower needed.

Ok you lost me again, what is "720p source 1080i video"? Do it stepwise for me, from camera to the display please, so I can follow you.

ss

Originally posted by Rgb
I was also confused by the weave vs adaptive deinterlacing comment. For progressive source (film or progressive HD camera), weaving two fields from the same source frame *should* yield the best deinterlacing results in this case.

Why should 1080i source deinterlacing be "voodoo"? Shouldn't it be no different than 480i source deinterlacing, with simply 6 times the pixels? Just use six 480i adaptive deinterlacing chips to do 1080i source deinterlacing :D. Though I understand what you guys mean- that there is no consensus on how to deinterlace 480i/1080i source video "properly", i.e. there are a lot of different opinions, technical methods, and algorithms out there.

re: 1080i looking better on 768p panels-

Perhaps the increased horizontal resolution helps? Plus, some displays may indeed do 3:2 pulldown from film source 1080i. I have heard conflicting reports that my AE700 projector does it. Based on my viewing, I tend to believe it does, but it trips up occasionally- bad flags or algorithm?

Something similar to the 1080i-vs-720p-on-768p-displays clarity effect was reported over a year ago on the HTPC forum- many forum members remarked how 1080p WM9 video looked better on their 720p displays than the same material encoded as 720p. Both 1080p and 720p version of the same video are available on the Wm9 HD video DVD releases, mostly Imax releases.

Some speculated that scaling down a higher-than-720p resolution for their 720p display caused not only a reduction in 1080p detail, but also a reduction in 1080p *noise*. Hence, 1080p downscaled for their 720p displays had less noise in the signal than the 720p native versions of the same video, making it appear to have more apparent detail. Maybe something similar is going on with 1080i on the 1360x768 panels?

re: availability of film source 1080i material-

HD movies broadcast on CBS, NBC, PBS, WB, UPN, Showtime, HBO, and others have been large sources of 1080i film source programs.

Its voodoo because it requires content creation on video-based material and lemme explain why.

A 1080i video camera never captures a full frame at any point in time. It captures a field(1920x540visible - every other line) every 1/60th of a second. And as the scene changes constantly, no 2 fields are ever captured at the same exact point in time. Thats why 1080i isnt used for high motion events like sports, because interlacing motion errors(missing bits of picture info) become apparent. To call, 480i or 1080i actually 30fps is a misnomer. There are no complete frames in 480 or 1080i. So to de-interlace from 1080i(or 480i) video-based material, the missing complementary fields have to be interpolated or best-guessed at, becasue they were never captured to begin with.

I know 720p looked better on my VW10HT than 1080i, at least to my eye. rogo mentioned the bobbing which for me did help explain that. However he says not much has changed since 2000 and now in the case of de-interlacing 1080i. I know broadcast is an absolute crapshoot in not only what you get but what the STBs pass. Your examples of WM9 should be pristine though. The better comparo would be 1080i WM9 vs 720p WM9 passed to one of these devices internal scaler (not pixel mapped.)

Carried HD(sat or cable) is a crapshoot on resolution IMO, be it 1080i or 720p, film or video based. OTA in my experience has been more consistent. But expecting it to arrive near full res and flagged correctly, we may have to wait for HD-DVD.

ss

Originally posted by subysouth

Ok you lost me again, what is "720p source 1080i video"? Do it stepwise for me, from camera to the display please, so I can follow you.

ss

I meant 1080i video that was shot with 720p cameras, i.e. 720p source "upconverted" to 1080i by a network, affiliate, etc. I don't know how often this is done, I was just giving an example. Our local PBS affiliate does the reverse, i.e the national PBS feed is (was) 1080i, and I receive 720p from the local affiliate OTA. It would be nice if they deinterlaced the national 1080i feed for us with 3:2 pulldown and/or adaptive deinterlacing, depending on the source material, but what I've seen doesn't equal the image quality I used to get when they were sending 1080i. I wish they'd switch back.

Thanks for elaborating on the field vs frame and the content creation (i.e. interpolation etc) issues with 480i/1080i. I was aware of the technical issues, but it's always nice for forum noobies ;).

Originally posted by subysouth


Your examples of WM9 should be pristine though. The better comparo would be 1080i WM9 vs 720p WM9 passed to one of these devices internal scaler (not pixel mapped.)

ss

This should be easy to test on these flat panels. Just get one of the WM9 HD DVD releases and set the PC resolution to 1920x1080i. Then play the 1080p clip to the panel. The PC will output the 1080p video file as 1080i,. Then change the PC to 1280x720p and play the 720p version on the same disk to the same panel.

Originally posted by Rgb
This should be easy to test on these flat panels. Just get one of the WM9 HD DVD releases and set the PC resolution to 1920x1080i. Then play the 1080p clip to the panel. The PC will output the 1080p video file as 1080i,. Then change the PC to 1280x720p and play the 720p version on the same disk to the same panel.

Tell me a little more about this WM9 library please.

Are you saying I can go out and buy a 1080p and 720p version of the same exact material? Or I am allowing the computer to render a 1280x720p version off a 1920x1080p native track laid on the DVD?

ss

Originally posted by subysouth
Tell me a little more about this WM9 library please.

Are you saying I can go out and buy a 1080p and 720p version of the same exact material?

ss

Yes.

Commercial releases at amazon.com or BEst Buy.

Free 1080p/720p download sample pairs at
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx

Microsoft site details the commercial releases, advertised many times in WSR.

Originally posted by subysouth
I am getting more confused. What specifically are your first 2 sentences referring to Mark? Video or film-based 1080i? If film-based I cant see how motion compenstaion or adaptive would be better than de-interlacing via a correct weaving?

So just a recap:

Bobbing basically using a field instead of a frame to render a new full frame correct?

Weaving is what is supposed to be done in 3:2 pulldown where the 2 fields sourced from the same frame are weaved back together correct?


So you've got it on bobing. You push up the frame rate from, say, 30 to 60 by using each field as an "upscaled" frame.

A proper 3:2 inverse pulldown allows one to re-create the original frame. Normally, weaving of interlaced material will look pretty bad due to the artifacting. But when the material is film-sourced and flagged properly and pulled down right, you can, indeed, recreate the original frames with a fairly simple deinterlace operation. In fact, the film was never interlaced in the first place until the telecine operation. Film is inherently "progressive".

Note the caveats in my last paragraph. If, indeed, the material is easily handled, then, yes, the pulldown and undo is enough. Material, however, is often mis-flagged and as a result, second-order deinterlacing techniques are valuable. That's why even film-sourced material can benefit from a better deinterlacer.

Obviously, video-sourced material that is bobbed will lose half the vertical resolution on each frame. If it's weaved, it will get a mess of artifacts when there is motion of any kind. Even motion-adaptive and motion-compensated techniques can only go so far, but they can go pretty far.

Good quick finds are:

www.hthoma.de/video/interlace/+deinterlacing+bob+weave&hl=en (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:JtGBHCyFZTQJ:Some basics

and

Enough math to show people how hard this stuff is (http://www.ics.ele.tue.nl/~dehaan/pdf/39_overview.pdf)

Mark

Please take the 1080p conversation elsewhere...I would like more info on the panel.

I dunno; seems relevant to me . . .

My htpc is still dead. One hard drive is dead (this was the boot disk) and the xp installer gives me the blue screen of death when I try to install on the other drive. Memory? MB? a card dragging the bus down? Who knows... it will be next week before I get it back up. The Biostar logo looks fantastic on the westy, though... I've seen it a hundred times now!

I watched some DirectTV through the svideo input this morning. Some of it looked bad. Some of it looked good. Cartoons and bright high contrast sources with vibrant colors looked good. This could vary from commercial to commercial. Other shows could be washed out or blurry looking. I found myself turning the saturation up and not cranking the backlight down as far. I caught mysel sitting too close (6 ft) and when I moved away and didn't get too off angle it looked better. I think I'm noticing differences between to look of an lcd vs. a tube. It's not necessarily better or worse, just different.

Attack of the Clones from DVD looked great! I only noticed the sync problem once. The DVD player is old. Maybe it is the problem.

I hooked the free portable DVD player up to the AV (composite) input. It looked better than most of the DirectTV content on svideo. It's all so very subjective.

I noticed something interesting about picture in picture that may lend some clues to the inner workings of the westy. The pip window cannot display vga or component source. It can contain composite, svideo and DVI. DVI? DVI is getting written to the frame buffer on an lcd?

I bought that darn DVI cable for nothing. I bet I'll get better results with VGA (someday... maybe...). On my Phillips, RGB bybassed the frame buffer. I expected DVI to bypass the frame buffer (if anything did) on an lcd.

Re-hijacking this thread from Neil, Bob and Weave, My Westinghouse 37 will be delivered Monday. I'll be hooking it up to HD Tivo and a PC. I'll report back fully, but I hope we'll get some more early reports before then. The tech specs seem to indicate that 1080p and a 1920 x 1080 computer resolution will be no problem. We shall see...

Didn't mean to start a new one...I will delete the new. It just seemed to be getting off topic for the last page or so...Please post here!

Ok, here is my PC usage review on the Westy 37. As I stated earlier, I went to my friends house tonight and we did much comparing and gaming. AMD64-3200, 9800pro, 5.4cats was used btw. We did not do any DVD, HDTV or other broadcast input testing; PC only.

First off, this thing is huge on a desk. Doesn't look that big in the store cause its sitting next to 46" inch and up TVs all over the place. One has to turn their head to look at different areas of the screen; moving ones eyes only does not work too well.

Because its so huge it gives off a lot of light and is very bright and harsh to the eyes. When in Windows, one needs a very well lit room or its a must in turning the contrast down to 0 from 50 as to not get eyeball bake.

At 19x10, text is nice very, crisp and easy to read. Pixels are not nearly as obviously seen as they are on the Polaroid at its native res. Non-native res's were less crisp but still leaps better than my 26" Polaroid. Text was a uniform mild blurry that was ok on the eyes IMO. Not distorted and different in boldness like my Polaroid TV. Overall, navigating Windows was very pleasent and reader friendly.

Some none native resolutions were far from full screen. For example, changing the desktop to 1360x768 resulted in a 26" widescreen Windows desktop with large black borders on all four sides. Same thing happened in some games; several resolutions didn't stretch out to full screen but most did.

Please see the pic for blackness and whiteness levels. All 3 screens are set to blank screensaver. Westy 37", Sony Laptop and Polaroid 26" are in the pic. As you can see, PC monitors are much better at blackness. but look at the 2nd pic and you'll see the brightness of the PC monitor is also less than either TV.

Motion blurring/ghosting during gaming or Windows scrolling was not too bad. For some reason, ghosting was much more noticeable in games when the Westy was not run at its native res.. Ghosting was very tolerable and at 19x10 not that easy to see. To me, it was not distracting enough from any of the games we tried.

19x10 was playable on the 9800pro in most games but some of the heavy gfx games did chug. Game visual quality really suffered at anything lower than 12x10.

Overall, this makes a very interesting PC monitor. The fact that it doesn't have any tuner is annoying making this Westy less multi-useful.

After totally checking it out, will I buy one for my computing? I don't know. Issues I have are its too big, too bright and has poor blackness for PC use. I'm going to have to think about this for a while.....

Feel free to ask me any question about it being run on a PC, I'll answer what I can or what my opinion may be.

Here is other whiteness pic.

I was hoping to be able to test the LVM-37w1 along side my Sharp 45 GX this week but my father who was quite interested decided to think about it some more when he learned that there were no on board tuners.

From what you're saying it doesn't sound like the LVM-37w1 is going to be able to stand up to the Sharp as a PC monitor at 1080P. I've posted before that IMO the Sharp out performs my desktop Dell 2001 FP 1200X1600 monitor certainly when it comes to displaying hi res digital photographs and maybe as well in terms of text readability too.

Originally posted by chavel
I was hoping to be able to test the LVM-37w1 along side my Sharp 45 GX this week but my father who was quite interested decided to think about it some more when he learned that there were no on board tuners.

From what you're saying it doesn't sound like the LVM-37w1 is going to be able to stand up to the Sharp as a PC monitor at 1080P. I've posted before that IMO the Sharp out performs my desktop Dell 2001 FP 1200X1600 monitor certainly when it comes to displaying hi res digital photographs and maybe as well in terms of text readability too.

The local BB here got one of these Westies in last Sunday. I went down the store on tuesday evening to check it out. When I first saw it I was a little disappointed. Too red. Too blurry. Too bright - running towards being grey. I walked out of the store thinking that there was still going be a wait before a reasonably priced 1080p 32"+ LCD was available. I went back to the store tonight thinking maybe I was expecting too much. After all it's so easy to drool over that Sharp 45" if you don't look at it's $7K price tag. With only a marginal curiousity I asked the sales guy what the availablity on the 37" was. He said that he'd check and went off to another corner of the showroom. While he was away I figured that I might as well just tinker with the Westy a bit. After figuring out how to use the side panel buttons to control the menu it quickly became obvious that this thing has a boatload of adjustments and that the facory presets really did not do this monitor (yes, I said monitor) justice. The BestBuy store counter tags correctly identify it as a HD monitor, unlike the web site. Like the Westinghouse site, the BB store did not claim that it's a TV. I guess that this is the way that the manufactues are going to get around the ATSC/ NTSC tuner requirement that goes into effect in a couple months. Anyway. After messing with the controls for a little while, I found that it can be tweaked into a pretty impressive display. Damn, it started to get really hard to justify the extra money for a Sharp or Panny. It looked so good that when the salesguy finally returned to tell me that they didn't have one, but another BB in a town about 45 miles away did, I pulled the trigger and told him to send it. I pick it up in the morning. So, maybe after the weekend I'll report back with the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

i think you early early adopters rock.

My third night with the westy brought me more disappointment when using it to view video. There's just no way to adjust the thing so it looks good on all content. If you get one scene to look good the next one will blind you, then the next one is too dark and often the color is just wrong.

I was mistaken in my earlier post. All input sources (of different types at least) are avalable in the pip window.

My htpc is still down. I'm hopeing that it and the myHD card running over vga will make the westy a viable option for video, otherwise I may have to move the beast to the office and just use it as a computer monitor.

Agreed--early adopters, by taking significant risks, make life a lot better for us cautious-minded Nervous Nellies. I have been lurking and reading posts on 30-32" lcd displays for my PC for months now and I have yet to make any kind of proper decision (apart from very much wanting 1080p, ceteris paribus). I have several questions for knowledgeable forum members:

(1) When can we expect more lower-priced 1080p displays to hit the market? Specifically, I do NOT want 37"; I am thinking more of 30" or 32", as this will be *exclusively* a PC monitor used for general PC use, the occasional game, and the not-so-occasional movie. I prefer to avoid a multiple display solution just to use MS Word. etc. from two feet away.

(2) Has anyone looked at the Apple Cinema 30" display and the Dell 24" display? They both look awfully good, but the Apple wants *TWO* DVI connections for its absurd resolution, and I don't know that my X800 XT PE can handle that (maybe--I'd have to check the port). My only worries about the Dell are (a) it's from Dell, whose customer support is raw excrement, and (b) 24" might be a bit small for viewing movies from 10' away. Anyone have it and use it in the way I am considering? Comments???

(3) Is anyone using either the *new* 32" Westinghouse or the new 32" Syntax Olevia for their home PC? How sharp is the text in, say, MS Word at native 1366 x 768 w/a high quality DVI cable? Will it be workable from 1.5-2' away, or is it advisable for me to sit and wait (which I've been doing for 6 months now) a bit longer for more 1080p displays to surface? I really would like to get a good monitor soon, as my old one is an 18" CRT (17.25" viewable) at 4:3, so in widescreen I get *UNDER* 16" viewable, which sucks from 10' away.

Thanks for any help/advice,

David

I received my lvm-37w1 yesterday and had about an hour to play with it.
I'm using it as a TV and it is connected to a Comcast HD cable box using DVI to the Westy's DVI (1080i) input.

After reading these threads, I wasn't expecting much, but I'm pleasantly surprised with the Westy.

First off, I am using this TV as a replacment for Sharp's last generation 37 LCD's, which kept crapping out. So, that's basically what I'm comparing it to.

The Westy factory defaults are all set to 50% except backlight, which is set to 100%. As a result, there is a lot of room to play around and improve the picture. Having said that, the Westy User Manual is pretty pathetic and the main menu is fairly limited. As far as I can tell so far, there are no adjustments for color (other than three color temperature settings).
By playing with constrast and the color settings, I improved things a bit. I will try get Westy's codes to get access to more settings.

The weakest link appears to be black levels. I can live with them, but the Sharp was better. I expect I will be able to improve things here a little after some more tinkering.

I don't see much ghosting at all. About the same as the Sharp.

Resolution is fantistic. No windowpaning at all. Beats the Sharp hands down here, but at 37", it doesn't make a big difference at the end of the day (e.g., when viewing from 10 feet back). If you plan on using the monitor as a monitor, close up, the Westy's resolution is impressive.

Colors are OK after setting contrast and color temp. Fairly realistic. No complaints.

I'll check out some DVDs over the weekend. Haven't had the opportunity yet.

Overall, I am happy so far. Moreover, at an hour's use, it's already outlived one Sharp.

Originally posted by davidjschenk


(1) When can we expect more lower-priced 1080p displays to hit the market?

(2) Has anyone looked at the Apple Cinema 30" display and the Dell 24" display?

(3) Is anyone using either the *new* 32" Westinghouse or the new 32" Syntax Olevia for their home PC?
David

1. I have no clue but I bet there is a huge market for this. Many PC owners like myself want a medium monitor in the 26-30" range.

2. Apple requires a special Dual Link DVI gfx card at $500. I already have a $500 gfx card and don't want to buy another. Dells 24" is great but that's not enough of an increase in size upgrade from my 21" CRT and not worth it IMO.

3. If you are picky like me, you most likely won't like a 1366x768 30" monitor. Too pixelated looking. I bought a 26" Polaroid to try as a PC monitor, I'll be taking it back tomorrow after having it for a week. IMO, I'd much rather have and use the 37" Westy over that Polaroid Just because the resolution is SOOOO much better.

Hope this helps.

Has anyone found a way to adjust R-G-B colors?
How about the codes to get into the hidden menus?

just went to my local BB to see this LCD. I played that monitor for about 30 minutes and compared it to nearby panasonic 37(HD) and 42(ED) plasmas and sharp 37 and 45 inch LCD(1080P), LG 37inch LCD(1280X720).

Things I like about westinghouse:
1. excellent resolution. obviously better than the plasmas and LG 37 inch LCD($3999, with HDTV tuner). As for Sharp LCDs, I am sure the settings on both sharps are way off since they look like crap, so no comparison here.
2. the menus and options are rich. It seems there is a lot of space left for tweaking the picture.
3. the panel is bright and has good contrast as compared to the nearby panasonic plasmas.
4. Immediate availability

Things I don't like:
1. As compared to the LG LCD, the color seems a little washed out. I tried to adjust but with no luck. But the difference is subtle. It becomes more obvious when showing those vivid pictures containing blue sky, green grass etc.
2. According to the information of this forum, it does not come with a NTSC tuner. But the strange thing is the staff of the store(he is the head of team) insisted it comes with a TV tuner. I couldn't reach the back of the panel to check if there is a coaxial input. My major use of new TV will be gaming console(60-70%), DVD(10% percent), SDTV(20-30%TV), and I have no intention to install HDTV in the near future. So a TV tuner is a must-have for me.
3. The price. BB's current promotion with this TV is free portable DVD player and 3 DVD movies with purchase of this TV. But the price after tax is more than $2400 which is still too steep for me, esp. considering the lower price tag of BenQ 3750 on crutchfield.

My decision:
Though I am very tempted, I still have to pass this deal. I have to admit I was impressed by this LCD TV. If its price is the same as BenQ's, I probably will jump on this deal. Now I only wish my preorder of BenQ 3750 can go through.

How come no one is talking about this 1080p TV?
http://www.drprojector.com/itemdesc.asp?CartId=6834335XKDHP13-EVEREST-5&ic=LT37HV

Originally posted by Destroy
How come no one is talking about this 1080p TV?
http://www.drprojector.com/itemdesc.asp?CartId=6834335XKDHP13-EVEREST-5&ic=LT37HV

After seeing the SD picture quality on the 32" Olevia I would have to believe this Olevia will suffer the same problem. The 32" Olevia had extremly bad SD picture quality at least in my opinion.

Quoting nascar24:

After seeing the SD picture quality on the 32" Olevia I would have to believe this Olevia will suffer the same problem. The 32" Olevia had extremly bad SD picture quality at least in my opinion.
========================================

Geeeezzz.... Idunno about that, nascar24. Everything I've seen of the lt32hv is wonderful. Bear in mind that I have little to no interest in SD picture, though--I'm only after this thing as a monitor, and for that the Syntax displays seem to be the best in their range.

If Destroy's link is correct, we have ANOTHER CHEAP 1080p DISPLAY ON OUR HANDS (which, if you ask me, is a big screaming deal!!). If its quality is as good as the previous Olevias, I think I'm going to run right out and buy one! I've been looking at the Olevias for a long, long time now.

There is an odd discrepancy in the link, though, which turned up when I googled it: some sites have it listed as at 1366x768 while others have it at 1920x1080. In most cases where 768 is listed, they list the display as an lt37hvE, but some just call it an lt37hv. All sites that list it at 1080 call it an lt37hv.

Thing is, the display is NOT listed, not even as "coming soon," on Syntax's website (syntaxgroups.@@@). If this thing really is available, why is it not even listed as an upcoming product? I don't get it...

Anyway, nice call on the link Destroy. Probably if it is for real more information about it will surface in the next few weeks.

-David

I went down to my local BB tonight in hopes to get a look at the Westy. Lo and behold not only did I get to see the Westy but the Sammy 408D has also made it's appearance.

They were lined up Westy, Sharp 45, Sammy 40.
They were all running the typical BB HD loop. Upon first glance the Sammy looked best. After looking a little closer here is what I noticed.

1: All picture where bright, clear, and solid.
2: Westy looked to have more ghosting artifacts with fast movement.
3: Westy had the poorest blacks. Sammy having the best.
4: The difference in resolution was apparent. the Westy looked to have
a higher pixel count.


All in all, the Sammy had the most life like picture of the three. The sammy happened to be next to a Toshiba 42 inch plasma. The blacks couldn't match
the Tosh but there were surprisingly close.

I can't say that some adjustment to the picture might have not made the Westy look darker, but it's hard to say. From what I could tell looking at some water shots, the Sammy has better CR in the picture. Eventhough the Westy has more pixels, I could see more with the Sammy. I'm making this judgement based on video that require more CR, rushing white water, thick leaves on trees ect...
This was also noticable when looking at a shot of a dolphin underwater. It had several old scars that where very hard to see on the Westy, but where clear as day on a nearby Panny Plasma, and fairly visible on the Sammy LCD.

So what to think. The Sammy costs almost 2x the price of the Westy. Is it worth the extra green? This is going to be a difficult descions for many. Argghh Why did they have to make it difficult.

Originally posted by Destroy
How come no one is talking about this 1080p TV?
http://www.drprojector.com/itemdesc.asp?CartId=6834335XKDHP13-EVEREST-5&ic=LT37HV

Well, the Olevia display, the 720p version was being highly advertised some time ago. It was an interesting set then, but they took too long to bring it to market. People feel like they broke their promise. The set was advertised on Target page, but wasn't available.

I just recently saw on at Frys. It was unimpressive and now that the 1080p set is available elsewhere for less, MSRP, it's not as interesting.

If the 1080p version MSRP were to match the Westy, it might be something to consider.

Mike

http://www.syntaxusa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=122

The seem to be having some problem with broken links to their graphics images, but you can read the specs at that link.

it sports dual TV tuners and an 8ms response time! if you can believe that, that is...

Actually, ChiTown_Jerry, it's not that simple.

From scouring the net last night I found quite a bit of information (especially stuff from CES 2005) indicating that a 1080p Olevia *IS* due to be released in the near future. The maddening thing is that I found no information as to _how_ near that near future is supposed to be.

The displays, if the information is correct, are to be 37" and 42", both at 1920x1090 native. The 37" is listed as LT37HVD, while the current 37" inch is LT37HVE, but apparently sometimes also just listed as LT37HV. I have seen some information confirming Destroy's claim that it will be launched (either paper launch or perhaps even a real launch) in June, but at this point that seems to be little more than a repeated rumor, not a confirmed anything.

I was thinking seriously about the Westinghouse initially, but now I am much more inclined to wait for Syntax to show us what they have. Last year their products blew the competition away. They may do it again...

Anyway, the thing I'm really hoping for is a good 30 or 32" 1080p. 37" is just that little bit bigger than what I would want to see on my desktop.

-David

Originally posted by davidjschenk
Quoting nascar24:

After seeing the SD picture quality on the 32" Olevia I would have to believe this Olevia will suffer the same problem. The 32" Olevia had extremly bad SD picture quality at least in my opinion.
========================================

Geeeezzz.... Idunno about that, nascar24. Everything I've seen of the lt32hv is wonderful. Bear in mind that I have little to no interest in SD picture, though--I'm only after this thing as a monitor, and for that the Syntax displays seem to be the best in their range.

If Destroy's link is correct, we have ANOTHER CHEAP 1080p DISPLAY ON OUR HANDS (which, if you ask me, is a big screaming deal!!). If its quality is as good as the previous Olevias, I think I'm going to run right out and buy one! I've been looking at the Olevias for a long, long time now.

There is an odd discrepancy in the link, though, which turned up when I googled it: some sites have it listed as at 1366x768 while others have it at 1920x1080. In most cases where 768 is listed, they list the display as an lt37hvE, but some just call it an lt37hv. All sites that list it at 1080 call it an lt37hv.

Thing is, the display is NOT listed, not even as "coming soon," on Syntax's website (syntaxgroups.@@@). If this thing really is available, why is it not even listed as an upcoming product? I don't get it...

Anyway, nice call on the link Destroy. Probably if it is for real more information about it will surface in the next few weeks.

-David

The HD picture on this TV is probably good but forget about watching regular SD TV on it, It was awful, If youre going to buy one of these TV's it better be good in both as I would say 70 percent of the TV you watch on it is still going to be SD. Also reading many of posts on the Olevia as a computer monitor is problematic as well as it doesnt act as a computer monitor should and Olevia themselves stated to people its a TV not a computer monitor.

Quoting nascar24:

The HD picture on this TV is probably good but forget about watching regular SD TV on it, It was awful, If youre going to buy one of these TV's it better be good in both as I would say 70 percent of the TV you watch on it is still going to be SD. Also reading many of posts on the Olevia as a computer monitor is problematic as well as it doesnt act as a computer monitor should and Olevia themselves stated to people its a TV not a computer monitor.

=======================================

Hi nascar24,

Sorry, but this is one area where I really do know what I'm doing and I could not (respectfully) disagree with you more. My reasons are simple and as follows:

(1) I do not watch t.v. There will be *NO* SD reaching this device, besides which when I saw it w/SD it worked fine after just a little bit of tweaking. Prior to tweaking (and esp. if it's with a nasty split-source input at CompUSA, which blows chunks) the SD looks very questionable indeed, but with a good clean single source and a little tweaking, it's lovely. I know; I've done it.

I realize and respect the fact that you personally strongly prefer the most recent Westinghouse displays for SD, but do note that for someone like me all of the arguments on this front are, shall we say, academic. It simply doesn't matter for my purposes.

(2) The only problem with its function as a monitor is that it does not go into sleep mode and instead yields a blue screen when the computer is put to sleep. Watch me not care--I'll be doing it for a while. You see, I am one of those odd ducks who, when not using his computer, TURNS IT OFF. This is a very simple (and environmentally responsible) solution to the blue screen problem Olevia owners have mentioned with their HTPCs.

Idunno, man--unless there are other problems you're aware of, I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

-David

WOWwwwww...

I just got off the phone with a guy at Crutchfield and it seems the new BenQ 1080p displays are being shipped to Crutchfield *in the next few days*. I checked the thing out and it looks fantastic. I include the link below for those who are not already aware of it:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Ect0J6SNmCa/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=153650&I=610DV3750&search=37+lcd

The price seems almost *ridiculously* low, though it should be noted that it needs a separate HDTV tuner for those using it for that purpose (people like Destroy and I are unlikely to be phased by this). I mean, this is *cheaper* than the Westinghouse and the rumored upcoming Olevia. Crazy... just plain crazy. At this point there appears to be a substantial wait-list for orders.

Has anyone seen reviews for this display on tech/av sites? How good is BenQ's reputation?? Aren't they the makers of Dell's 24" widescreen monitor (which Anandtech and many others rated *above* the Apple Cinema display)?

At this point I'm actually very relieved I didn't buy the Syntax LT32HV when it first came out (I came very close--it's a gorgeous display). With the kind of hardware that is only just now surfacing, I'm beginning to think June will be a good month to buy...

-David

1) The Westy LVM-37W1 does not have a built in TV tuner. It is a true monitor.
2) I had the opportunity to play some DVDs via the Westy's component inputs. As compared to the DVI inputs, the components seem to suffer more ghosting. I don't know why this would happen, but I think there is a difference. Colors are still fine. Even with what appears to be slightly increased ghosting on the component inputs, overall, things are fine - acceptible. Plus, this is not our main TV and it doesn't get much DVD use. Kind of odd though that there would be a difference at all. Maybe I need glasses.
3) Overall, I think this monitor is a steal at $2000. But there is obviously a price war looming. Once the Chinese flood the market with these sets (BenQ, Syntax, Westy, Polaroid, and others), these prices are going to drop fast. Yippee! It is about time for the Japanese to pay for price gouging us the last few years. Within a few months, I can see all of these TVs being well under $2000. Once the 40 and 45 LCDs hit the market (at reasonable prices), plasma prices should tank also.
4) I bought the Westy because of cabinet constraints. It is the largest TV that will fit in the cabinet. 37's with non-removable speakers won't fit, and I like the idea of having a built-in speaker. In my opinion, the fact that it is 1920x1080 doesn't really mean much at 37 inches when being used as a TV. The set is just too small to make a big difference. E.g., with respect to the prior post that said that the Sammy LCD (I think) showed dolphin scars, if you back up 10 feet and sit in the LazyBoy, you aren't going to see them anyway on a 37" TV. If it was 55", it might be a different story. On the other hand, up close (i.e., as a computer monitor), resolution is key.
5) I think the Westy has vivid colors, and they all look fairly realistic. I was able to improve black levels some via adjustments, but, IMO, this is the weakest aspect of the monitor (although if you are going to use component inputs, you might want to check out the ghosting). It also seems to embelish flesh tones (they are too deep), but I haven't been able to fix that yet.

that is a good news. But I heard too many different versions of stories from crutchfield CSRs, so I won't put too much hope on this one. Let's just hope and wait. BenQ is one of the largest LCD manufacturer in the world, I think. The panel quality is supposed to, at least, not inferior to westinghouse's, then its price tag will make it an excellent purchase.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by davidjschenk
[B]WOWwwwww...

I just got off the phone with a guy at Crutchfield and it seems the new BenQ 1080p displays are being shipped to Crutchfield *in the next few days*. I checked the thing out and it looks fantastic. I include the link below for those who are not already aware of it:

Yes, ghosting on the Westy was pretty bad at BestBuy on their HD feed. Ghosting was not too bad via DVI PC gaming however. Wish some reputable site would do a full review of this monitor comparing all inputs.

Oh, and I can also tell you VGA PC input was dull and blurry looking compared to DVI PC input on the Westy, but this is pretty normal for any monitor.

Quoting Arthurking:

that is a good news. But I heard too many different versions of stories from crutchfield CSRs, so I won't put too much hope on this one. Let's just hope and wait. BenQ is one of the largest LCD manufacturer in the world, I think. The panel quality is supposed to, at least, not inferior to westinghouse's, then its price tag will make it an excellent purchase.

===============================

Hi Arthurking,

Yeah, I pretty much freaked when I saw the specs and the price tag on the BenQ. Actually, I'm still freaking out. I'm freaking out so much I think I might call back to Crutchfield and put in a pre-order for one. I mean, given their extremely generous return policy and technical support, I see little to no risk for me in making the purchase. Also, I spent this morning and afternoon researching BenQ on the web and they seem to have a pretty strong name behind them (though they're fairly new to LCD TVs).

About the only thing that makes me think I should wait just a little longer is the possibility that Syntax (correct url is www.syntaxgroups.com not syntaxusa.com, which has many broken links) will be releasing one in the near future. I say *possibility*, though, because there is quite a bit of conflicting information on this, so I think it might finally be time for me to call up Crutchfield and press the trigger.

It's almost too bad in a way, because I found some *awesome* coupons and deals for the Syntaxes at Target through certain unnamed deal sites (I could get the LT32HV for $1100 shipped).

It just looks too tempting... 1920x1080 at 37" from a reliable maker at $2000. Where exactly is the down side to this supposed to be???

-David

Well, that's it.

The trigger has been pressed. I completed the order and am now the proud new owner of a distant position on a waiting list (not normally the sort of thing for which one plops down two large, but whatever).

Sorry if I seem a tad giddy--I am. I spent SIX MONTHS researching this, sitting tight, and waiting. For my purposes, the BenQ with a high quality DVI cable appears to be the ideal solution.

Hope they ship soon...

-David

Originally posted by davidjschenk
Well, that's it.

The trigger has been pressed. I completed the order and am now the proud new owner of a distant position on a waiting list (not normally the sort of thing for which one plops down two large, but whatever).

Sorry if I seem a tad giddy--I am. I spent SIX MONTHS researching this, sitting tight, and waiting. For my purposes, the BenQ with a high quality DVI cable appears to be the ideal solution.

Hope they ship soon...

-David

Nice. Congrats. Let us know when it ships and what it's like.

I know I want to pull the trigger on one of the 32" Westy's as soon as I see one, and have the funds available. :) Gosh, don't we just get sick of waiting...

I'm one of the first in line at Crutchfield for the BenQ, but I'll probably cancel early next week. I have the Westinghouse being delivered on Monday. I'd be careful with the BenQ. I'm sure it is a fine monitor, but I have seen nothing on that display to indicate that it will accept 1080p. In fact, all the literature only specifies 1080i. The Westinghouse will accept a 1080p signal, has two DVI ports (instead of one), and actually exists. I think that is worth a few hundred dollars.

Quoting Tommylotto:

I'm one of the first in line at Crutchfield for the BenQ, but I'll probably cancel early next week. I have the Westinghouse being delivered on Monday. I'd be careful with the BenQ. I'm sure it is a fine monitor, but I have seen nothing on that display to indicate that it will accept 1080p. In fact, all the literature only specifies 1080i. The Westinghouse will accept a 1080p signal, has two DVI ports (instead of one), and actually exists. I think that is worth a few hundred dollars.

==========================================

Hi Tommylotto,

Yeah, I have been reading up on this and it looks like even Sharp and Samsung don't really have full 1080p capability yet for HD feeds, whereas (for some strange reason) evidence suggests that Westinghouse does. This is no small advantage for those members planning to use their displays for HD cable and dish, to be sure.

For me and others like me, however, it isn't as big of a deal. All I'll need to use the BenQ as a monitor (and it *is* listed as a PC monitor/HDTV) is a native resolution of 1920x1080 and a good DVI jack. Both of these the BenQ unequivocally *has*, as listed on their website.

I am more nervous about the BenQ suffering the same problems apparently plaguing the Westinghouse 1080p--blurred images from light bleeding across pixels, poor black levels, and a general "washed out" look to the colors. My guess is that if the Sharps and Samsungs are still struggling with the black levels, the BenQ will not improve on them.

Still, while I am aware of these weaknesses, the superior resolution is just too enticing for me not to jump in on this new technology. Doubtless, I would get more for my money if I waited a while, but that is always true with all high-end electronics. At some point one simply has to jump in. The 1920x1080 resolution at the very aggressive price was just enough to make me do it.

-David

BestBuy is having a sale on all TVs tomorrow. The Sunday circular even had the 37" Westy featured. They didn't mention the sale price on TVs. The prices given were "Before Sale Price".

Originally posted by davidjschenk
Quoting nascar24:

The HD picture on this TV is probably good but forget about watching regular SD TV on it, It was awful, If youre going to buy one of these TV's it better be good in both as I would say 70 percent of the TV you watch on it is still going to be SD. Also reading many of posts on the Olevia as a computer monitor is problematic as well as it doesnt act as a computer monitor should and Olevia themselves stated to people its a TV not a computer monitor.

=======================================

Hi nascar24,

Sorry, but this is one area where I really do know what I'm doing and I could not (respectfully) disagree with you more. My reasons are simple and as follows:

(1) I do not watch t.v. There will be *NO* SD reaching this device, besides which when I saw it w/SD it worked fine after just a little bit of tweaking. Prior to tweaking (and esp. if it's with a nasty split-source input at CompUSA, which blows chunks) the SD looks very questionable indeed, but with a good clean single source and a little tweaking, it's lovely. I know; I've done it.

I realize and respect the fact that you personally strongly prefer the most recent Westinghouse displays for SD, but do note that for someone like me all of the arguments on this front are, shall we say, academic. It simply doesn't matter for my purposes.

(2) The only problem with its function as a monitor is that it does not go into sleep mode and instead yields a blue screen when the computer is put to sleep. Watch me not care--I'll be doing it for a while. You see, I am one of those odd ducks who, when not using his computer, TURNS IT OFF. This is a very simple (and environmentally responsible) solution to the blue screen problem Olevia owners have mentioned with their HTPCs.

Idunno, man--unless there are other problems you're aware of, I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

-David

Yes,
For you it might not be an issue but for many here the SD quality would be, Im not the only one that have stated this, Even other Olevia owners have stated as such, I was considering this TV until I saw SD on it. There was no way I was going to spend $1300 on a picture that looked like that. The Westy 32" SD blew the Olevia away. And yes you may not care about the computer monitor shortfalls as well but It would bother me and others as well. Also have heard of sync problems as well. Other downfalls of Syntax are their support. And the hopes you will get your rebate as well. Many problems reported there as well.

I think I will still wait, at least till July, then after that I may consider other options.

Anyone thought about warranty on these units? The only thing I don't like on the BenQ is the 1 year warranty and Crutchfield does not offer any extended service. Best Buy at least have an 4 year extended for $399 (have anyone manage to talk them down on those?) but that bring the price much higher than the BenQ (2184+sales tax+399=>$2800) where as the Benq if it actually ship at those prices will be $2000 with no tax and shipping. Is the 4 Year peace of mind worth $800?

Crutchfield does offer plans from 3 to 5 years...you will have to check out the terms though.

http://www.crutchfield.com/popups/ext_warranty2.html

"Is the 4 Year peace of mind worth $800?"

Um, no. On a $2000ish purchase, that's way too much for piece of mind.

I've little doubt that you'll be able to buy a 37-inch LCD in 4 years for somewhere around that much money. New.

Guys I've been considering a 32 inch Olevia for use almost exclusively as a videogame platform for current and next-gen console systems, and maybe as a PC monitor for a few choice PC games.

The 32" LCD Olevia's are CHEAP....and 32" is a decent size for a gaming tv. I have a 65" Mits CRT set for my HT that I DONT like to game on (Burn in, etc). But then I saw the 1080p WEsty...more expensive, sure, but 1080p.

So based on what I am reading here, the Westinghouse 37" (about $1k more than the 32" 720p offering) does or does NOT do a good job with 1080i material fed through component???

The only thing really scaring me is that the 32" 720p Olevia seems to have a decent contrast ratio, but the Westinghouse seems to have a pretty terrible one.....with videogames the blacks aren't as important as they are in a movie, sure, but I dont want to buy JUNK either.....this TV may someday become a primary display for my upstairs living room, etc.

Has anyone been able to notice a definate difference between the resolution changes from 720p to 1080i? Is the difference noticible?

Are there any affordable 37" sets at 720 resolution that do a decent job and don't cost a fortune?

Saw the 37" West next to a Sharp 45" LCD. Everything about the West looked good to me except I couldn't get the color to look as good as the Sharp. As far as I can tell the only controls through the normal menu for color are "tint" and a selection of of three color temperature settings (Why could I not see a change as I cycled through these three?!?). Admitedly I was rushed today and I will go back to give it another go.

I was happy to see a continuously variable backlight with quite a range from dark to light.

Saw the 37" West next to a Sharp 45" LCD. Everything about the West looked good to me except I couldn't get the color to look as good as the Sharp. As far as I can tell the only controls through the normal menu for color are "tint" and a selection of of three color temperature settings

I went for another look yesterday and I was disappointed. I could NOT get the color right compared to a few other LCD's in close proximity. The Sharp close by had excellent colors and try as I might, I could not get the Westy to produce a true red.. it was ALMOST red but too bluish I think.

I saw NO ghosting on HDTV input.. but when I asked the BB sales guy to hook up a DVD player that was playing Top Gun on another LCD (beautifully) the picture (through component cables) was absolutely terrible! there was some sort of ghosting/artifacting all over the screen.. Yuck!

So.. what do we know about this screen so far? Heck if I know.. all we know is sometimes depending on the input it's really bad.. sometimes it's good but the color is not so great.

I still would like to see a definitive review on it and how people with HTPC's feel about it's performance. For now, I am passing it by..

The screen I really want now is the 1080p Sharp LCD.. my god! it's wonderful! oh yeah.. and just under $7K at BB.. *sigh*

Jerry

I went for another look yesterday and I was disappointed. I could NOT get the color right compared to a few other LCD's in close proximity. The Sharp close by had excellent colors and try as I might, I could not get the Westy to produce a true red.. it was ALMOST red but too bluish I think.

I saw NO ghosting on HDTV input.. but when I asked the BB sales guy to hook up a DVD player that was playing Top Gun on another LCD (beautifully) the picture (through component cables) was absolutely terrible! there was some sort of ghosting/artifacting all over the screen.. Yuck!

So.. what do we know about this screen so far? Heck if I know.. all we know is sometimes depending on the input it's really bad.. sometimes it's good but the color is not so great.

I still would like to see a definitive review on it and how people with HTPC's feel about it's performance. For now, I am passing it by..

The screen I really want now is the 1080p Sharp LCD.. my god! it's wonderful! oh yeah.. and just under $7K at BB.. *sigh*

Jerry

I picked a Westy 37" last Friday and have had a weekend to play with it as an HTPC monitor. The verdict. Well, after a feeding it various inputs from DVD players and PC's it becomes pretty obvious that this thing is meant to be a HTPC monitor. It syncs to 1920x1080 @ 60 hz prefectly with a Nvidia card right out of the box. What isn't set up so well out of the box are the factory color and brightness settings. There's 3 color temps. The first has a warm yellow cast. The second is neutral and the third has a blue tint. I'm not sure why they factory default is the third, because it really throws the reds off. The default brightness is a little low, but the deafult backlight setting is pumped to the max. The default saturation, hue, constrast need to be tweaked a little bit, The THX Video Optimizer that can be found on "The Incredibles" DVD aids a lot in the adjustments. After getting all the settings where they should be, the monitor doesn't do too bad of a job. It really shines on high definition stuff. The High Definition version of Terminator 2 looks really impressive. I don't HD cable, but an PBS station transmitting a ATSC 1080i signal decoded with an ATI HD TV Wonder looks incredible on the Westinghouse. I can only imagine what the 1080p "Serenity" trailer will look like on it. Hurry up Apple, release the Windoze version of Quicktime 7.

arf-

Thanks for confirming 1080p input from a PC!

You might want to try some 1080p video samples on the Westy via PC:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx

To play them smoothly, you need a P4 3.0Ghz or higher or an Athlon 64/XP 3000 or higher.

I picked a Westy 37" last Friday and have had a weekend to play with it as an HTPC monitor. The verdict. Well, after a feeding it various inputs from DVD players and PC's it becomes pretty obvious that this thing is meant to be a HTPC monitor. It syncs to 1920x1080 @ 60 hz prefectly with a Nvidia card right out of the box. What isn't set up so well out of the box are the factory color and brightness settings. There's 3 color temps. The first has a warm yellow cast. The second is neutral and the third has a blue tint. I'm not sure why they factory default is the third, because it really throws the reds off. The default brightness is a little low, but the deafult backlight setting is pumped to the max. The default saturation, hue, constrast need to be tweaked a little bit, The THX Video Optimizer that can be found on "The Incredibles" DVD aids a lot in the adjustments. After getting all the settings where they should be, the monitor doesn't do too bad of a job. It really shines on high definition stuff. The High Definition version of Terminator 2 looks really impressive. I don't HD cable, but an PBS station transmitting a ATSC 1080i signal decoded with an ATI HD TV Wonder looks incredible on the Westinghouse. I can only imagine what the 1080p "Serenity" trailer will look like on it. Hurry up Apple, release the Windoze version of Quicktime 7.

=========================================

Hey, that is impressive news. It may help to explain the experiences ChiTown_Jerry had at Best Buy, too. I mean, if the factory setting has a heavy blue push, that may be why he couldn't get an honest red out of the display, and if it's sort of meant ot be an HTPC display, that could explain why its performance with a connected DVD player was sub-par.

The thing I'm still wondering about is the relative sharpness/bluriness of images. Did you notice any problems with image sharpness on it? One or two other members posted some worrying comments about this (apparently caused by light bleeding across pixels)?

Still, this all sounds quite encouraging for us HTPC users. If Crutchfield doesn't come through with the BenQ display, I may have to go take a look at this thing at a local Best Buy (though I will NEVER buy anything from them--I've read far too many complaints about the way they treat their customers, especially their unsatisfied customers).

-David

Yes,
For you it might not be an issue but for many here the SD quality would be, Im not the only one that have stated this, Even other Olevia owners have stated as such, I was considering this TV until I saw SD on it. There was no way I was going to spend $1300 on a picture that looked like that. The Westy 32" SD blew the Olevia away. And yes you may not care about the computer monitor shortfalls as well but It would bother me and others as well. Also have heard of sync problems as well. Other downfalls of Syntax are their support. And the hopes you will get your rebate as well. Many problems reported there as well.

======================================

Hi nascar24,

Oh--good point. I had overlooked their mixed customer support ratings and, perhaps more importantly, their *uniformly bad* record with remitting on rebates in a timely fashion. Those two consideration are relevant and do tend to mitigate at least a bit.

Still, these are last year's Olevia models we're talking about in comparison to this year's Westinghouses; I at least want to give Syntax a chance to prove that their upcoming models can compete. I do have serious doubts about the likelihood of a 1080p Olevia coming out anytime soon, though, so I have pretty much bailed out on Syntax at this point. I'm hoping the BenQ will come through soon, but I am also giving a very serious eye to the Westinghouse.

I just wish it didn't have problems with blurred images. A sharp image (yielding sharp text on my PC) is subjectively more important to me even than the black levels given the way I intend to use whichever display I end up with.

I'll try to take a look at the Westinghouse in the next few days when I'm not grading and I'll post my subjective analysis.

-David

I picked a Westy 37" last Friday and have had a weekend to play with it as an HTPC monitor. The verdict. Well, after a feeding it various inputs from DVD players and PC's it becomes pretty obvious that this thing is meant to be a HTPC monitor. It syncs to 1920x1080 @ 60 hz prefectly with a Nvidia card right out of the box. What isn't set up so well out of the box are the factory color and brightness settings. There's 3 color temps. The first has a warm yellow cast. The second is neutral and the third has a blue tint.


Arf,
Thanks! I suspected a thorough tweaking could get this monitor to look better. appreciate your feedback.

One question.. Even if you were not able to get colors, etc. perfect with the Westy's controls, could you further tweak it with the NVidia drivers (or powerstrip or some other utlity)? What are you using for DVD playback? (OK - that was 2 questions... )

I am really leaning towards doing an HTPC.. it makes so much more sense than relying on screen manufacturers to choose the best/latest software to habndle the various video formats.

Thanks again!

To davidjschenk -
David - When I started playing with the Westy's controls (after watching the crappy DVD) I found that the "sharpness" control was set at value 1 out of 100! That might have something to do with people's comments about sharpness.. ya think? :D

Jerry

I'm curious if anyone had tried using this yet as a SCALED display......ie: Have any of you PC Gamers with this thing tried it out at 960 by 540 or something....

Running modern games at 1920x1080 would be inherently difficult even with a high end card if you start turning on eyecandy like Ansiotropic filtering.

Hows the response time?

I picked a Westy 37" last Friday and have had a weekend to play with it as an HTPC monitor. The verdict. Well, after a feeding it various inputs from DVD players and PC's it becomes pretty obvious that this thing is meant to be a HTPC monitor. It syncs to 1920x1080 @ 60 hz prefectly with a Nvidia card right out of the box. What isn't set up so well out of the box are the factory color and brightness settings. There's 3 color temps. The first has a warm yellow cast. The second is neutral and the third has a blue tint. I'm not sure why they factory default is the third, because it really throws the reds off. The default brightness is a little low, but the deafult backlight setting is pumped to the max. The default saturation, hue, constrast need to be tweaked a little bit, The THX Video Optimizer that can be found on "The Incredibles" DVD aids a lot in the adjustments. After getting all the settings where they should be, the monitor doesn't do too bad of a job. It really shines on high definition stuff. The High Definition version of Terminator 2 looks really impressive. I don't HD cable, but an PBS station transmitting a ATSC 1080i signal decoded with an ATI HD TV Wonder looks incredible on the Westinghouse. I can only imagine what the 1080p "Serenity" trailer will look like on it. Hurry up Apple, release the Windoze version of Quicktime 7.

What type of parameters can you customize?

Individual colors (RGB) or just TINT/COLOR?
Contrast?
Color Temp?
Brightness?
Can it be customized by input?

Any info. is appreciated. I'm most interested in the sets ability to control black/
grey ramp.

Mike

The blurriness you claim to have seen at first blush might not really be blurriness. It might just be that you are not used to a 1080 resolution. I recall reading the Sharp 45 thread, and an owner posted relatively good photos comparing the Sharp at 1080p and an ED Plasma. The Plasma looked dramatically better at first glance -- even at a much lower resolution, but it was all a trick of edge enhancement, etc. The longer you looked and the closer you looked the 1080p image, which I initially thought was soft was, actually looked amazing, It showed a more gradual transition at edges (more like reality) than the atrificially enhanced edges of the plasma.

My Westinghouse is being delivered today -- actually it is scheduled to be delivered in the next thirty minutes. I feel a cold coming on...

The blurriness you claim to have seen at first blush might not really be blurriness. It might just be that you are not used to a 1080 resolution. I recall reading the Sharp 45 thread, and an owner posted relatively good photos comparing the Sharp at 1080p and an ED Plasma. The Plasma looked dramatically better at first glance -- even at a much lower resolution, but it was all a trick of edge enhancement, etc. The longer you looked and the closer you looked the 1080p image, which I initially thought was soft was, actually looked amazing, It showed a more gradual transition at edges (more like reality) than the atrificially enhanced edges of the plasma.

My Westinghouse is being delivered today -- actually it is scheduled to be delivered in the next thirty minutes. I feel a cold coming on...

Heeyyyy, Tommylotto, that is GREAT news!

Image quality concerns really were the only thing holding me back from getting the Westinghouse, so if it turns out not to be a genuine issue I might have to put a call in to J&R.

Please do write back and (*cough-cough*) let us know how the device looks to you once you (*cough-cough*) have it set up and watch a little t.v. while fighting your cold (*cough*). Congratulations on the new display, by the way...

ChiTown_Jerry: yeah, that very well might have something to do with it. I'm enough of a newbie to this stuff that I don't really know what the appropriate sharpness settings would be for an HD LCD, but it seems reasonable. I do vaguely recall some posters (in the Syntax LT32HV thread) mentioning that Sharpness actually ought to be dialed all the way down to zero on HD displays because it's only use is to artificially clarify (and thereby distort) images from a low-q source. Still, I have no idea how much truth there is or is not to this claim. Anybody know?

-David

=========================================

Hey, that is impressive news. ..... If Crutchfield doesn't come through with the BenQ display, I may have to go take a look at this thing at a local Best Buy (though I will NEVER buy anything from them--I've read far too many complaints about the way they treat their customers, especially their unsatisfied customers).

-David

i can think of a lot of things best buy can be dissed for, primarily the prices, but this? i mean, they have a 30-day NQA full refund return policy- it's extraordinary.

The blurriness you claim to have seen at first blush might not really be blurriness...

Yes, it is bluriness, more accurately ghosting. I was watching this set right next to a Sharp 45. The picture looked different regarding the bluriness on the Westy. I thought it might just be the video source, but the Sharp 45 confirmed it was some sort of lag, ghosting.

I observed the bluriness while watched a baseball clip of a Texas Longhorn player rounding the bases. I think it may have been more pronounced due to the fact the player's uniform pants where white and the Westy was probably being run in "torch" mode. None the less it was visible.

M

What type of parameters can you customize?

Individual colors (RGB) or just TINT/COLOR?
Contrast?
Color Temp?
Brightness?
Can it be customized by input?

Any info. is appreciated. I'm most interested in the sets ability to control black/
grey ramp.

Mike

The searchlight power of the blacklight that is set to full out by default on the Westy seems to be the greatest grey cuprit. Setting the backlight to anything brighter than 50% in normal lighting is an overkill. The blacks may not be at Plasma level, but for LCD it doesn't seem to do so bad on things the Mines of Moria in "The Lord of the Rings" The interplay between the Brightness, Contrast, and Backlight settings controls the grey ramp.

Each input I've used so far can keep it's own settings. I'm still tweaking various inputs on it, but so far for HTPC I like,

Brightness 46
Contrast 56
Saturation 46
Hue -6
Sharpness (autoset)
Color Temp Color 2
Aspect Ratio Fill
Backlight 40

I haven't found a way yet to set the individual RGB levels on the Westy. Those and the gammas can be tweaked via the video card drivers.

I found that, at least with the DVD players I have (Progressive w/ component outs), that I've gotten better results running DVDs on a PC, which is using a Nvidia Geforce 5900, with software DVD players. Of the software players WinDVD 6, beats out VLC 0.8.1 and PowerDVD 6. I use these three mostly because they support at least 5.1 Surround and DTS.

With a Nvidia Card you can adjust the tweak more things. After messing around with the NV settings, I ended up just using it's default settings.

i can think of a lot of things best buy can be dissed for, primarily the prices, but this? i mean, they have a 30-day NQA full refund return policy- it's extraordinary.

Hi cjv123,

<TANGENT WARNING>

Actually, it's not the return policy that I was referring to. A fair number of major stores, including Best Buy, have that policy. I was referring to complaints about support, dealing with irate customers and/or customers who have complaints, and the extent to which some customers are treated with outright suspicion and/or disrespect (including some individually tested and confirmed profiling cases).

What led me to look into their policies and customer complaints was a report posted on Anandtech that a man was ARRESTED AND JAILED for something like five hours for paying for a purchase at Best Buy all in $2 bills (which either he or his son had been collecting for years). Apparently, both the cashier and manager with whom he was dealing were too fantastically stupid and asinine to realize that $2 bills are in fact legal tender (and too lazy or mindless to consider looking into it before calling the police--I mean, they could have just googled it or called any local bank and *asked*!!! You know--just to be sure...). What really gets me is, at the end of the whole thing Best Buy made NO APOLOGY to this man and even indirectly tried to shift the blame onto HIM!!!!

No. I will NEVER do one shred of business with Best Buy; not unless and until they make a full, genuine, and very public apology to that man and offer him some kind of restitution for what was unequivocally and solely their fault. Please understand, before I started reading up on it I used to think moderately well of that company, save for its prices and its software repair outfit.

What they did to that man was unconscionable. That is why I no longer give a penny to Best Buy.

<END OF TANGENT>

Anyway, the Westinghouse is sounding more and more attractive from the information that is starting to come in. I'll be looking at one sometime tomorrow.

-David

P.S.-- If I ever do buy anything from Best Buy again (assuming they tender an apology to the guy), I will pay for my purchase exclusively with $2 bills.

...
Each input I've used so far can keep it's own settings. I'm still tweaking various inputs on it, but so far for HTPC I like,

Brightness 46
Contrast 56
Saturation 46
Hue -6
Sharpness (autoset)
Color Temp Color 2
Aspect Ratio Fill
Backlight 40

I haven't found a way yet to set the individual RGB levels on the Westy. Those and the gammas can be tweaked via the video card drivers.
...


Thanks for the feedback, it's much appreciated. Have you noticed if the reduction in backlight makes a difference in ghosting?

Let us know if you find RGB level settings. This would be useful for Sat. in and DVR.

Mike

david-

that is an amazing story. i'll assume the guy is going to sue them for large coin- he was clearly unlawfully detained.

david-

that is an amazing story. i'll assume the guy is going to sue them for large coin- he was clearly unlawfully detained.

Actually, if I remember correctly, he said he was just happy the whole thing was over with and wanted to forget about it.

Initially I doubted the veracity of the report, so I clicked the link to the original source and, after picking my jaw back up off the floor, started googling like crazy. It *really* *did* *happen*.

I also had trouble understanding how the local police could have failed to notice the error and actually held the guy for some-odd hours. I mean, these were trained officers. Did they somehow not know that $2 bills exist????

The whole story is breathtaking.

-David

<EDIT>

I got several of the details of this story wrong (I read it quite a while ago and memory *is* fallible, after all). I attach the complete story, reported in the Baltimore Sun, just so the facts of the case are clear. I do not want to accuse Best Buy or the police officers involved of anything they did not do:

quote:PUT YOURSELF in Mike Bolesta's place. On the morning of Feb. 20, he buys a new radio-CD player for his 17-year-old son Christopher's car. He pays the $114 installation charge with 57 crisp new $2 bills, which, when last observed, were still considered legitimate currency in the United States proper. The $2 bills are Bolesta's idea of payment, and his little comic protest, too.

For this, Bolesta, Baltimore County resident, innocent citizen, owner of Capital City Student Tours, finds himself under arrest.

Finds himself, in front of a store full of customers at the Best Buy on York Road in Lutherville, locked into handcuffs and leg irons.

Finds himself transported to the Baltimore County lockup in Cockeysville, where he's handcuffed to a pole for three hours while the U.S. Secret Service is called into the case.

Have a nice day, Mike.

"Humiliating," the 57-year old Bolesta was saying now. "I am 6 feet 5 inches tall, and I felt like 8 inches high. To be handcuffed, to have all those people looking on, to be cuffed to a pole -- and to know you haven't done anything wrong. And me, with a brother, Joe, who spent 33 years on the city police force. It was humiliating."

What we have here, besides humiliation, is a sense of caution resulting in screw-ups all around.

"When I bought the stereo player," Bolesta explains, "the technician said it'd fit perfectly into my son's dashboard. But it didn't. So they called back and said they had another model that would fit perfectly, and it was cheaper. We got a $67 refund, which was fine. As long as it fit, that's all.

"So we go back and pay for it, and they tell us to go around front with our receipt and pick up the difference in the cost. I ask about installation charges. They said, 'No installation charge, because of the mix-up. Our mistake, no charge.' Swell.

"But then, the next day, I get a call at home. They're telling me, 'If you don't come in and pay the installation fee, we're calling the police.' Jeez, where did we go from them admitting a mistake to suddenly calling the police? So I say, 'Fine, I'll be in tomorrow.' But, overnight, I'm starting to steam a little. It's not the money -- it's the threat. So I thought, I'll count out a few $2 bills."

He has lots and lots of them.

With his Capital City Student Tours, he arranges class trips for school kids around the country traveling to large East Coast cities, including Baltimore. He's been doing this for the last 18 years. He makes all the arrangements: hotels, meals, entertainment. And it's part of his schtick that, when Bolesta hands out meal money to students, he does it in $2 bills, which he picks up from his regular bank, Sun Trust.

"The kids don't see that many $2 bills, so they think this is the greatest thing in the world," Bolesta says. "They don't want to spend 'em. They want to save 'em. I've been doing this since I started the company. So I'm thinking, 'I'll stage my little comic protest. I'll pay the $114 with $2 bills.'"

At Best Buy, they may have perceived the protest -- but did not sense the comic aspect of 57 $2 bills.

"I'm just here to pay the bill," Bolesta says he told a cashier. "She looked at the $2 bills and told me, 'I don't have to take these if I don't want to.' I said, 'If you don't, I'm leaving. I've tried to pay my bill twice. You don't want these bills, you can sue me.' So she took the money. Like she's doing me a favor."

He remembers the cashier marking each bill with a pen. Then other store personnel began to gather, a few of them asking, "Are these real?"

"Of course they are," Bolesta said. "They're legal tender."

A Best Buy manager refused comment last week. But, according to a Baltimore County police arrest report, suspicions were roused when an employee noticed some smearing of ink. So the cops were called in. One officer noticed the bills ran in sequential order.

"I told them, 'I'm a tour operator. I've got thousands of these bills. I get them from my bank. You got a problem, call the bank,'" Bolesta says. "I'm sitting there in a chair. The store's full of people watching this. All of a sudden, he's standing me up and handcuffing me behind my back, telling me, 'We have to do this until we get it straightened out.'

"Meanwhile, everybody's looking at me. I've lived here 18 years. I'm hoping my kids don't walk in and see this. And I'm saying, 'I can't believe you're doing this. I'm paying with legal American money.'"

Bolesta was then taken to the county police lockup in Cockeysville, where he sat handcuffed to a pole and in leg irons while the Secret Service was called in.

"At this point," he says, "I'm a mass murderer."

Finally, Secret Service agent Leigh Turner arrived, examined the bills and said they were legitimate, adding, according to the police report, "Sometimes ink on money can smear."

This will be important news to all concerned.

For Baltimore County police, said spokesman Bill Toohey, "It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world."

The other day, one of Bolesta's sons needed a few bucks. Bolesta pulled out his wallet and "whipped out a couple of $2 bills. But my son turned away. He said he doesn't want 'em any more."

He's seen where such money can lead.



http://www.baltimoresun.com/

<END EDIT>

-David

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but I got the new Costco book today. In the back is a coupon for $250 off a Sceptre 37" 16:9 LCD 1920 x 1080 with built in tuner & speakers. It also has a $50 mail in rebate. This coupon is good Aug 22 to 28. With coupon and rebate this model is cheaper than the one from Crutchfield. Looks like the 37" 1080 LCD price wars coming soon.

I'll have a Westinghouse 37" from BB delivered tomorrow (tuesday from 1-3pm).
I have several LCD TV's to compare it to. I'll do a bunch of side by side tests. I have several HD sources including testing it with real 1080P signals. They say those 37" 1920x1080 12ms panels are really capable of <8ms if driven correctly so I'm surprised that people are seeing much ghosting. Maybe the ghosting won't be an issue when using the DVI inputs. I think some of the ghosting issues are from looking at a 37" 1920 pixel set from 2 feet away from source material that started life at 24-30 fps. Even if your running 60fps 1080p on a PC your updating at 16ms so how are they really getting 12ms, 8ms or even the 4ms they are talking about on the future panels? Are they turning the pixels on a few ms early and off many ms early?

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but I got the new Costco book today. In the back is a coupon for $250 off a Sceptre 37" 16:9 LCD 1920 x 1080 with built in tuner & speakers. It also has a $50 mail in rebate. This coupon is good Aug 22 to 28. With coupon and rebate this model is cheaper than the one from Crutchfield. Looks like the 37" 1080 LCD price wars coming soon.


Do you have the Costco Item number on the 37" Sceptre as I can't find it on the site.?


Also BB sent me a 10% coupon good from may 27th to 30th so this would also push the Westinghouse below the Crutchfield price. If you buy BB's $10 club card before the sale you'll get another 3.3% off.

Don't know if this will help because I couldn't find it on their website or with a Google seard. It is also not shown on the Sceptre website. Item No. for Costco is 896288. Since the coupon is not valid until August I assume this will be a new model. There is a small picture shown in the coupon book and it does say with HDMI. That is all the info it shows.

Is there a snowball's chance in hell that this panel will take a 1920X1080 PC input?


Now THAT is the million dollar question......made by the alleged 'apprentice'.....


I think this is THE most important issue on this entire thread.

Why on God's green earth would you shell extra dough for a 1080p panel that does not accept a 1080p input??

The HD-DVD's will be out before Christmas, and I couldn't imagine someone being forced to down resolve a 1920 x 1080p DVD to 720p.....But according to what 'metasearch' mentioned a few posts back, the information may be available regarding 1080p INPUTS.

I just feel like I was as lucky as Robert Blake when my Sharp GX45 turned out to fully accept 1080p inputs.

Now I won't have to make 3rd mortgage on my house to 'upgrade' to a 1080p compatible panel that will accept HD-DVD's !!

I may have missed this issue in the thread, but does anyone know yet about the Westinghouse?

And by the way has anyone heard more about the 55" LG 1080p LCD ? And whether it will accept 1080p?


Thanks for bringing that up Chavel.....



Sawyer

On Tuesday I put down my money on the 37 inch Westinghouse and I am picking it up on Thursday. Bay Area Best Buys do not have them in stock but they are in the warehouse. I think the screen said 30 or 50 in stock.

They had the Westinghouse 37 inch on display in Pinole but not Emeryville. It was sitting next to a Sharp 37G(B?)4U. A few minutes of side by side comparison on the house HDTV feed left me satisfied that the Westinghouse was a deal at a bit more than half the price of the AQUOS for nearly twice the pixels.

As I watch lots of basic cable I had the Joe - the Best Buy guy - hook up a Cyberhome DVD player via the composite input (yes, the worst possible input). The DVD in the player was some sort of Yahama demo disc. Picture was quite good and that was what sold me.

I'll check back at the end of the week with my experiences. I'll give it a run with my Xbox, PS/2, and a several year old Sony 480P DVD player. No HDTV feed yet.

Now THAT is the million dollar question......made by the alleged 'apprentice'.....


I think this is THE most important issue on this entire thread.

Why on God's green earth would you shell extra dough for a 1080p panel that does not accept a 1080p input??

The HD-DVD's will be out before Christmas, and I couldn't imagine someone being forced to down resolve a 1920 x 1080p DVD to 720p.....But according to what 'metasearch' mentioned a few posts back, the information may be available regarding 1080p INPUTS.

I just feel like I was as lucky as Robert Blake when my Sharp GX45 turned out to fully accept 1080p inputs.

Now I won't have to make 3rd mortgage on my house to 'upgrade' to a 1080p compatible panel that will accept HD-DVD's !!

I may have missed this issue in the thread, but does anyone know yet about the Westinghouse?

And by the way has anyone heard more about the 55" LG 1080p LCD ? And whether it will accept 1080p?


Thanks for bringing that up Chavel.....



Sawyer

The 37" westinghouse has 2 DVI inputs. One can handle 1080P 1920x1080 x 60hz. I don't know if it will also handle 72-75 or 85hz but I doubt it. The other DVI is limited to 1080I max. Westinghouse now claims it has a 1000:1 Contrast ratio.


37" LCD Video Monitor
Mdl LVM-37w1

With more than 2 million pixels, this state-of-the-art 1920 x 1080 progressive scan LCD display brings you the ultimate in digital video. A full range of inputs, including 2 DVI with HDCP connectors, lets you connect to a PC and the latest multimedia video sources. External tuner required for TV viewing.

Product Features*

Display Specifications
Viewable Screen Size 37.0" Diagonal
16:9 Aspect ratio
Native/Optimum Resolution 1920 x 1080
16.7 Million colors
Compatible Modes
NTSC
HD Ready
PC 480i
480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
1920 x 1080, 640 x 480, 800 x 600, 1024 x 768
Contrast Ratio 1000:1
Brightness 550 cd/m2
Color Gamut 75% NTSC
Lamp Life 50,000 Hrs
Viewing Angle 176° Horizontal
176° Vertical
Response Time 12 ms

TV Features
Audio 2-20 watt speakers
Video Processing Progressive Scan, Aspect Ratio Conversion, CCS (Cross Color Suppressor), 3D Noise Reduction, PIP, Inverse 3:2 pulldown, Freezing Picture, 3D Video Processing, 3D Comb Filter

Physical Specifications 36.6" x 28.5" x 8.4" (with Base)
56 lbs (with Base)
36.6" x 23.0" x 4.5" (w/o Base)
44 lbs (w/o Base)
Connectors Composite In, S-Video In, 2 YPbPr, RGB/VGA/PC Video In, 2 DVI-HDCP, 5 Audio in (Dual RCA), Audio in (mini), Power-in
Cabinet Color Silver
Installation Options 8 Hole pattern, 75mm x 75mm VESA® pattern, 100mm x 100mm VESA® pattern wall mounts

Documentation
Quick Connect 37" Quick Connect

I registered in 2001 but they wouldn't let me post URL's until I hit 5 messages.

Here's message 6 with the url's. LOL

http://www.westinghousedigital.com/support/downloads/qConnect/37w1-qConn.pdf

http://www.westinghousedigital.com/products/monitors/prod-37w1.shtml

"Why on God's green earth would you shell extra dough for a 1080p panel that does not accept a 1080p input??"

To eliminate any scaling of 1080i sources?

To use it with a PC as a display?

Okay, I just spend a few hours hooking up the Westinghouse. As you can see from my set up, this monitor is to be used as a computer monitor and television. I have a 38" HD Tube TV and a Plasma. If I want inky black, I know where to go. But if you want a TV to double as a huge computer monitor, look no further. The Westinghouse is an amazing computer monitor. I plugged it into my old Mac G4 with an old Nvidia GForce2 Mx Card. It immediate recognized the monitor and automatically set the resolution at 1920 x 1080 at 60 Hz. Digital photos look better on this display than when professionally printed. It is hard to explain how great they look. Here is my set up...

Eventually, It will be on an articulating arm that can be swung in front of either my desk or my wife's, but I doubt it will ever go in her direction. Here is a shot of my Mac desktop

The menu gives you tons of tweek room...
Brightness 1 to 100
Contrast 1 to 100
Saturation 1 to 100
Hue -45 to 45
Color Temp (1) Warm, (2) Normal, (3) Cool
Sharpness 0 to 14
Aspect Ratio: Standard, Fill, Zoom
Backlight 0 to 100 (very flexible -- turn it down!!!)
Rest

There is a menu window which will give you signal info. My Mac is attached on the 1080p DVI at 1080p. The other DVI is attached to a high def Tivo which can feed either 1080i or 720p.
According to the System Menu:
1080p = 1920x1080, H Frequency 66kHz, V Frequency 59Hz
1080i = 1920x540, H Frequency 33 kHz, V Frequency 60 Hz
720p = 1280x720, H Frequency 44kHz, V Frequency 60 Hz

I'm sure the experts on this board will know what to make of this info. I assume that it confirms that 1080i is down converted to 540p, and maybe not to artfully. I'm wondering if this display could be dramatically improved by the addition of a high quality scaler such as DVDO's iScan HD+. The iScan could do the conversion to 1080p and bypass the Westinghouse's internal scaler

Here is a close up on an icon on my desktop. You need to sit real close to get the screen door effect!!!

I tried to take pictures of video, but the photos were of no practical use

Thanks Tommylotto, it looks great! No bad pixels?
I get mine tomorrow, I can't wait.

Tommylotto, those pictures are *great*. The icon image in particular was extremely helpful and informative (very nice desk you have there, by the way--the whole thing looks like a great setup).

Unfortunately no Best Buys are carrying the display in the Twin Cities, so I can't get a look at one in person. Under the circumstances I think I'm going to wait a few more weeks and give Crutchfield a chance to come through with the BenQ, but if nothing surfaces on that front by mid-June it looks like the Westinghouse is a very reasonable choice.

Congratulations again on the fly new toy, man.

-David

Hi, tommylotto, I was suprised to see that GeforceMX2 can be so powerful to support a 1920X1080p display. Does it even come with a DVI port?

Hi, tommylotto, I was suprised to see that GeforceMX2 can be so powerful to support a 1920X1080p display. Does it even come with a DVI port?

Tommylotto said in a prior post that he connected the GeForce2MX to the Westy 37" panel via DVI at 1920x1080p from a Mac.

Also, member arf confirmed 1920x1080p from a PC under Windows via DVI also, I believe.

Video cards going back to the late 1990's can readily do 1920x1080p desktop for 2D apps and video, assuming enough video memory. It's 3D apps and 3D games that need more recent vintage cards with higher powered GPUs at these high resolutions.

Here is a close up on an icon on my desktop. You need to sit real close to get the screen door effect!!!

I tried to take pictures of video, but the photos were of no practical use

Can you comment on the reponse time of the LCD TV? There were a couple of comments saying that ghosting was noted on fast action scenes and I just want to make sure that's not the case before making the purchase. Thanks.

Wow, I desperately want to see how this monitor handles other resolutions like a 720p feed or even something like 1024x768..

Any chance of playing with the screen resolutions and showing us the results!?

I am hunting for a TV to use as a videogame monitor....ps2, XBOX, the next-generation systems and..frankly if it looks that good...even as a computer monitor for playing First Person Shooters...

I'm curious how this TV handles things like an SVIDEO input or a component input at 480p, for example..

Don't know if this will help because I couldn't find it on their website or with a Google seard. It is also not shown on the Sceptre website. Item No. for Costco is 896288. Since the coupon is not valid until August I assume this will be a new model. There is a small picture shown in the coupon book and it does say with HDMI. That is all the info it shows.

Any chance you can put up a scan of the coupon?? Would also like to know the price after rebates and coupon. Thanks.

Any chance you can put up a scan of the coupon?? Would also like to know the price after rebates and coupon. Thanks.

please remember Forum rules do not allow coupon talk

Thanks :)

OK. I just called crutchfield and cancelled my BenQ 3750 order. I think I will wait costco's deal on 37inch LCD. anybody else with me? The only problem is the promotion is still 3 months away.

Actually you guys want to hear a scary thing...?

I have a 65" Mitsubishi set that is my primary HT display, but because of fears of burn-in, I've avoided most gaming on the box...I've had it since 2001 and its served me well.

But I've been looking into a secondary display for gaming....for my PS2, Xbox and whatever next gen systems come down the line. This Westinghouse was one of the displays that was making the cut.

And then...I started looking at prices :)

To replace my 65" Mits, should something bad happen to it, would cost me several hundred dollars *LESS* than this LCD display at 1/2 the size!!!!

So I guess its time to start gaming on the mits, since if something like burn-in were to happen on it, it would be cheaper to replace it than it would be to look for a flatpanel right now. What I'd lose in real-world resolution would be made up for with a better picture quality.

Man its scary how the pricing changes over the years :)

Granted you wont be using a 65" display on your desktop......and its a bit deepr than 5 inches....but you know, there is alot to be said for the "Bang for the Buck" factor here,
isn't there.

arthurking,
I will be waiting and depending on what is available at the time I may also be buying costco's. It's the cheapest and has HDMI with one of the best warranties available. I want what is best for me in this price range. I want the best contrast ratio and response time and also good connectivity and good warranty. I haven't seen any info on the Sceptre except what is in the Costco book which is very little. I would pay a bit more to get a better display. The next three months will be interesting for the 37" 1080P LCDs. I can wait for the early adopters to figure out which model is best.

quick question - does the front speaker detach or is it permanently attached?

Rusch -- Set up an input for your game where you back off on the brightness and, especially, the contrast settings.

If you do this, there is a very good chance you will never burn in your TV.

Good luck and happy gaming.