Same strange show in Austin, TX. I set it to record the show just in case. As CBS's website and TV Guide.com both show Ghost Whisperer airing this Friday.
I checked my girlfriends HD units and they both do not have any listings for Sunday. She is on Comcast cable. Also, her units are set up with both the analog and digital channels. The analog channel shows Ghost Whisperer, while the digital one shows that Rome show. Must be someone at TVGOS who is causing this conflict.
Michael

Same strange show in Austin, TX. I set it to record the show just in case. As CBS's website and TV Guide.com both show Ghost Whisperer airing this Friday.
I have seen several incorrect guide listings over the past month. I believe this is a problem with the guide data, not the host station or the DVR. Just this last Sunday, I noticed in the Sony guide that for Monday, the CW HD station (KSWB-DT) had a different program listed than for the CW SD station (KSWB-TV). One of these was something about Rome. I know that both stations carry the same CW program. I then checked my other CW stations (KTLA-DT,KTLA-TV), and they had the same exact incorrect listings. I then checked my other Panasonic DVR (SD only) and it had the same incorrect listings for both CW SD stations (KSWB-TV,KTLA-TV). The Sony and the Panasonic use different host channels.

I few weeks ago, I noticed that my local ABC station listed college football in HD during Monday night primetime. That was also incorrect. In all cases, when the incorrect listing time arrived, the guide had been corrected.

Ok, have gone through the lists several times there is only one KHCW and it is for the analogue 39-0. The TV Guide did automatically change that one from KHWB at the first of the year with the change of the station call letters. Also, I have noticed a about 3 new stations added to the end of the TV Guide list; but they are all analogue stations I do not watch.

Basically, it still looks like someone at TV Guide is just asleep at the switch not setting up a major prime time network digital station? Seems they would at least have a web site or toll free line to report such errors?
HoustonPerson,
Perhaps your local station has not provided or does not have a -DT call sign for their station. Have you called the local KHCW to find this out?
Michael

You might want to check out any Best Buy or Circuit City stores you have around your parts. They have been selling off their demo models that they were using with their Sony SXRD displays for discounted prices. They're usually DHG-HDD250's, I believe.

Other than that, all I can think of is e-bay or similar sites.

You can also check over on the TiVo S3 thread to see if any one is selling off their Sony after getting the new TiVo.

Thanks. I checked around locally this morning. The two Best Buy stores have none. One Circuit City has one but says they won't sell it because they need it to use in the store. A local high-end shop also has one but won't sell.

Dave

I don't have Sunday listings either.
I checked last night and I don't have any listings for Sunday either. Must be a system-wide TVGOS problem.....

This Sunday is the first missing day of listings ever on mine.

Was it a cablecard issue or was it an issue with the channel listing?

Oranes11,

Never saw a response, and I was wondering if you had any information regarding this problem?

Also, for all others reading this: Has another not been able to get the guide over regular cable without any kind of tuner, but then added a cable card an had success?

Geoff

Hi folks,

I have one DHG-HDD250 and have a chance to get another with no remote (or anything else). Can I run both units from the same (RM-Y823) remote? If so, how?

Thanks!

Lyca

Hi folks,

I have one DHG-HDD250 and have a chance to get another with no remote (or anything else). Can I run both units from the same (RM-Y823) remote? If so, how?

Thanks!

Lyca

You need two remotes to control two units.

Each unit and remote can be set to the 50 or 51 code.

If you need extra remotes - I have some or you can buy a UNIVERSAL.

Hi folks,

I have one DHG-HDD250 and have a chance to get another with no remote (or anything else). Can I run both units from the same (RM-Y823) remote? If so, how?

Thanks!

Lyca

In the same room? If so, it will be hard (as both units will respond at the same time (assuming they are both on)). Or I guess you could change the remote code on the remote based on the unit being used.

In different rooms, shouldn't be a problem as long as the remote code is set the same on both DVR's.

Thanks guys! Current thinking is to have both units in one room hooked up to my TV's HDMI-1 and HDMI-2. I was wondering if I could set one unit for 50, slide the remote selector to DVD (eg) and program it for code 51. I can live with two remotes if this doesn't work.

Lyca

Thanks guys! Current thinking is to have both units in one room hooked up to my TV's HDMI-1 and HDMI-2. I was wondering if I could set one unit for 50, slide the remote selector to DVD (eg) and program it for code 51. I can live with two remotes if this doesn't work.

Lyca

Easiest solution is to power on only one at a time and share the remote since you will never need to have both on simultaneously. If it is too much trouble to manually power on a unit, you should be able to buy a remote from Sony.


Ray

I have spotted several DHG-HDD250s at Sears, demoing Sony displays. The sales guys took my number in case they became available to sell.

I'm hoping to find a second 250 or 500 at a reasonable price so that I can continue looking into the possibility of hard drive upgrades. With the new TV season underway, there is no hope of pulling my primary unit out of service, especially after what happened last time (messed it up experimenting until I discovered the front panel service menu to repair what I'd done).

Thanks guys! Current thinking is to have both units in one room hooked up to my TV's HDMI-1 and HDMI-2. I was wondering if I could set one unit for 50, slide the remote selector to DVD (eg) and program it for code 51. I can live with two remotes if this doesn't work.

Lyca

That is a GOOD IDEA [GRIN]!

You can test and try the idea even with a single DVR.

I have no idea if it will work!

HoustonPerson,
Perhaps your local station has not provided or does not have a -DT call sign for their station. Have you called the local KHCW to find this out?
Michael

About 6 months ago or so one of the tech guys at 39 CW, said they have contacted TV Guide (or have attempted too), to have them list the HD shows (that is KHCW-DT 39-1). But they have never gotten a reponse from TV Guide.

It is so strange because about 99% of all the other listings stuff is always correct, with the few exceptions being sports over-runs on weekends - which is just a given.

We get about a half dozen or more listings for DT stations with full time info-mercials, and how to make tacos blindfolded with your hands tied behind your back, so I would think we could get a major network?

I have spotted several DHG-HDD250s at Sears, demoing Sony displays . . .

Hmmm, I didn't think to try Sears. But no matter. I ordered an HDD500 from an ebay seller and I should have it on Monday.

Now I just hope that I can receive the TVGOS signal. I'm reading that is the only way to set the clock (for timer recordings). I do have three PBS broadcast stations in my area (one runs the PBS-HD feed continuously) so I'm hoping I won't have any problems with this.

Dave

you need a good analog PBS (if that is the host channel in your area) signal. As the data is not (yet) carried via the digital signal. I've had mine for a week and no problems yet.

So does anyone know how TGOS data via a digital channel will work? A few questions:

- Is it possible to send VBI-like data over a digital channel?
- If so, will the HDD units recognize/accept it?
- Will the units require modification?

I'm assuming (moreover hoping) the future TGOS delivery method will have minimal or no impact on existing equipment since there are a number of devices, DVRs, PVRs and [currently shipping] HDTVs as well, which will be otherwise stranded.

Any thoughts?

Lyca

My listings disappeared again last night.
This is after I've painfully re-edited my channels after that last tvgos outage here in LA.
I've already missed a few of my wife's treasured recordings.
We normally don't record much so its really frustrating that we can't count on it when we do.

Anyone looked at the Tivo series 3 HD DVRs yet?
I'll go there if my HDD500 remains 'blinky' every so often.

Anyone looked at the Tivo series 3 HD DVRs yet?
I'll go there if my HDD500 remains 'blinky' every so often.

Thread is here for the Series 3 TiVo: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8691534#post8691534

[QUOTE=xsn0]My listings disappeared again last night.
This is after I've painfully re-edited my channels after that last tvgos outage here in LA.


I do not understand what missing listings has to do with having to re-edit your channels. I have no listings for the coming Sunday as of today, and have had no listings for several days at a time in the past. But, I have never gone back and had to re-edit my channels. Are you doing something else to cause this? A reset or something?
Also, have you check with your PBS host for TVGOS to see what their problem may be?
Michael

Does anyone have a Sony HDD250 for sale? I know everyone loves these. I'm looking to get my hands on one. I've called around to the TWEETER, CIRUCIT CITY, BEST BUY, etc. I've got a VOOM receiver and it works great for OTA HD...now I want a DVR too ;-) Anyone have an extra that they want to sell?
Thank you.

When my listings disappear and then re-appear, all my manual mappings are gone. I like it to tune to the HD station instead of the SD where the listings are at. My HD stations never have any listings or they don't even show up in the guide.

Does anyone have a Sony HDD250 for sale? I know everyone loves these. I'm looking to get my hands on one. I've called around to the TWEETER, CIRUCIT CITY, BEST BUY, etc. I've got a VOOM receiver and it works great for OTA HD...now I want a DVR too ;-) Anyone have an extra that they want to sell?
Thank you.You do realize that you will not be able to record in HD from that Voom tuner, I presume? Only from the Sony's internal tuner.

(Just checking.)

When my listings disappear and then re-appear, all my manual mappings are gone. I like it to tune to the HD station instead of the SD where the listings are at. My HD stations never have any listings or they don't even show up in the guide.Are you positive that the HD channels are not hidden somewhere in the "change channel display" listings, and just need to be turned "on"?

Also, that does sound unusual that you would lose your channel listings from a TVGOS outage.

Are you sure that you're not having any power outages you're not aware of that would affect the unit? Like when you're not at home, or asleep?

You do realize that you will not be able to record in HD from that Voom tuner, I presume? Only from the Sony's internal tuner.

(Just checking.)

Oh no, I know that...I was just playing around with the VOOM. I've had it for a while and enjoy free OTA HD. Now I want my cake and eat it too. I want HD and DVR...that's why I want the Sony HDD250 (to replace the VOOM). Thank though ;-) :) :D

Are you positive that the HD channels are not hidden somewhere in the "change channel display" listings, and just need to be turned "on"?

Also, that does sound unusual that you would lose your channel listings from a TVGOS outage.

Are you sure that you're not having any power outages you're not aware of that would affect the unit? Like when you're not at home, or asleep?

I have to agree with Rammitinski. Perhaps your unit is resetting somehow. I know when I first had my 250, I had some strange things happen, but thought it was due to having the remote aimed at the unit and accidently pressing several buttons at once by way of laying a magazine on top of it. Once I moved the remote and made sure that it was not mishandled my problems went away. Not real sure if that was the cause or if it was just something with the local TVGOS host. I would make sure to check all your connections to be sure they are tight and secure.
Also, are you using this with cable or terrestrial broadcast? Or both? Do you have a backup UPS? Surge protector?
I have my entire system on a Smart UPS Backup, as well as surge protectors for the antenna system. I have not had any glitches out of the 2 units that I have other than some no or incorrect listings from time to time. And it has been quite some time since a scheduled program dropped out. The last one being a CSI NY last week or so.Funny thing, my girlfriend had the same thing happen with her and she is on cable only, whereas I am OTA only. So some of these problems I see keep pointing me toward TVGOS and the local host station.
Michael

I using QAM HD as well as OTA HD.
My ota hd is not that strong at all but I got the antennae as a backup for the tvgos data.
Without a cableco stb or cc, I have to manually map the unlisted clear hd stations to the listed sd stations (both ota and cable).
When the listings go, I lose all my manual mappings.
It could be a power situation or it could be a no-tvgos feed issue.

Either ways, the schedule will say a bunch of ???? and the recording doesn't happen.
Even if I reset the recording, it will record the sd station instead.
So I have manually go back and remap the hd to the sd stations again.

Just to record, I've now resolved myself to mapping only the local HD stations.

Does anyone have a Sony HDD250 for sale? I know everyone loves these. I'm looking to get my hands on one. I've called around to the TWEETER, CIRUCIT CITY, BEST BUY, etc. I've got a VOOM receiver and it works great for OTA HD...now I want a DVR too ;-) Anyone have an extra that they want to sell?
Thank you.



Sony outlet stores have them I just picked up two 500's
Does anyone know how long the turn around time is at the sony service center in PA for the 161-6 fix?

I using QAM HD as well as OTA HD.
My ota hd is not that strong at all but I got the antennae as a backup for the tvgos data.
Without a cableco stb or cc, I have to manually map the unlisted clear hd stations to the listed sd stations (both ota and cable).
When the listings go, I lose all my manual mappings.
It could be a power situation or it could be a no-tvgos feed issue.

Either ways, the schedule will say a bunch of ???? and the recording doesn't happen.
Even if I reset the recording, it will record the sd station instead.
So I have manually go back and remap the hd to the sd stations again.

Just to record, I've now resolved myself to mapping only the local HD stations.

It does not make any sense that the loss of daily listings would cause a reset in your mapped channels. I have both sd (analog channel callsigns) and hd (digital callsigns) mapped and have never had a reset of them because of a loss of TVGOS program listings. Your problem sounds as though you are getting a system reset.
When you say your listings are????, is this for one day or is it the whole week at a time? How long is it before the listings come back after you re-map the channel numbers to the callsigns? Are you doing anything else to the unit after you lose the listings or before you re-map? Such as soft or hard resets?

My girlfriend has 2 units and the basic cable plan, no cable card or set top box. No digital channel subscription. She gets the HD digital local stations which show up on her units with channels such as 98.10,98.3,80.112 and so on. I set up her analog and digital channels to their respective callsigns. I have never had to re-map her channels to the callsigns, even when the cable system has rebuilt itself ( downloading/updating of the cable system). After that had finished, all I had to do is to pick the proper cable system and everything was normal. No re-map or re-edit. No reset of the system.
Perhaps you could list exactly what steps you are doing when you get the no listings ????? in the guide so we might better understand what may be happening.
Michael

I was all set to get a second HDD-250 from a Sears store in Dallas. I live in Florida - my brother-in-law located a display model in Texas and was going to ship it to me. He worked with several people in the store who tried to get a Sears item number so they could sell it (the unit was out of box and only had a power cord). After a couple of hours and several Sears employees, he ended up talking to the general manager. The general manager finally called Sony and was told that the unit was placed in the store by Sony for display purposes with Sony products. Sony went on to tell him the unit belonged to Sony and that Sears must return it to them. Wow!

The moral of this experience is simple: If you find one of these display units at a Sears location it may have also been placed in the store by Sony. If you suspect this, suck up to the lowest member of the sales staff as possible and hope he/she can come up with a way to sell it to you without calling Sony (or anyone up the chain that will give them a call). OK, this is probably a little underhanded and borderline cheating.

Hopefully, any of you looking to buy a unit in Sears will have better luck and will find one that has a real item number…

Good Luck!
Lyca

It does not make any sense that the loss of daily listings would cause a reset in your mapped channels. I have both sd (analog channel callsigns) and hd (digital callsigns) mapped and have never had a reset of them because of a loss of TVGOS program listings. Your problem sounds as though you are getting a system reset.
When you say your listings are????, is this for one day or is it the whole week at a time? How long is it before the listings come back after you re-map the channel numbers to the callsigns? Are you doing anything else to the unit after you lose the listings or before you re-map? Such as soft or hard resets?

My girlfriend has 2 units and the basic cable plan, no cable card or set top box. No digital channel subscription. She gets the HD digital local stations which show up on her units with channels such as 98.10,98.3,80.112 and so on. I set up her analog and digital channels to their respective callsigns. I have never had to re-map her channels to the callsigns, even when the cable system has rebuilt itself ( downloading/updating of the cable system). After that had finished, all I had to do is to pick the proper cable system and everything was normal. No re-map or re-edit. No reset of the system.
Perhaps you could list exactly what steps you are doing when you get the no listings ????? in the guide so we might better understand what may be happening.
Michael

Thanks. I just took a look at my hdd500 and you're right.
It's still painfully slow in rebuilding the listings but for this coming Saturday (the only day I have listings for!!), the mappings appears to be intact.
Once all the listings are back, I'm gold until the next tvgos feed snafu. :mad:

I guess what I had the last time was a system reset which took my mappings away.

My VBI data appears to be from a local KCET station via cable.
It will be better if it came from the OTA KCET instead so I can eliminate the cableco from the fault chain on the next outage.

It doesn't look like the Tivo S3 will work for me since it doesn't have any manual mapping capabilities. The two-tuner sure would be nice.

My hdd500 is going to be a year old this January and I'm on version .06.
NE1 know if Sony will take it just to upgrade the firmware and would I see some real benefits of a new firmware ?

Thanks again.

So does anyone know how TGOS data via a digital channel will work?
Lyca
Comcast touts an "all digital" system. But this is at the head-end. When I set up my new HDD250, it scanned the analog and digital channels. In Seattle, PBS channel 9 is what I use to set my clocks on my DVD recorders, so I'm sure that is the channel the Sony uses. I am using the cable input only (no OTA antenna) and all is well.

Also, I am not using a cable card. Why pay an extra $5/mo for the HD channels? Since I use my 2 TiVo's for SD recordings, I just changed the "tuning" in the guide to get Ch4 as 82.4, Ch5 as 83.1, Ch7 as 86.2, etc. That way I get the correct listings.

If I were to use a CC, the channels would be Ch4 = 104, Ch5 = 105, etc., but I would have to pay the extra $5 for the HD stations! I am on basic cable and only get 2-99 (and HBO) on my Motorola DCT700, so the only channels I would add to the HDD250 with a CC are the HBO's. The only problem with tuning the DTV/HD channels this way is when Comcast does a change (which they just did with Ch7 earlier this week...I have to search for the new channel! number).

Hope this helps any new Sony users.

I recently picked up my second hdd250. I've had my first one shortly after they were released and have had no problems at all. I mainly use it for OTA HD (Detroit) recording and it works like a charm. It has been a long time since I've had to play with the settings, but my new one is having problems picking up a digital off air signal. It's not the antenna because I'm using the same one as my other unit. Non-digital channels come in fine. The serial # is 8004545 and the firmware is 1.2.06. I've tried to do a search, but can't seem to find an answer. I was just wondering if somebody came across this problem, or any advice would really be appreciated.

Thanks

I recently had cablecards installed in my HDD500s. The TVGOS does not see any of the new HD channels I got but the tuner does tune them. They are all 4 digits (1600s) and I can not re-number other listings to these numbers. I have to manually record them.
Is there still no option for this??

What cable system?
Cant' believe anyone would use 4 digit channel numbers. Probably just to 'screw' anyone that doesn't use their damn box. :mad:

Oh really, all our HD channels are mapped above 1500 by TImeWormer Austin TX.
The network HDs are all in the 1500s, all other HDs are in the 1600s. I get TVG listings for the 1500 networks but not for any of the other cable HD channels.
I may not keep the cablecard service unless I decide to get any premium channels.
I mostly wanted to try it out and get the Discovery HD channel (1617) which they include with the digital tier. I also get Universal HD (1654) and TNTHD (1656), both kinda lame. None are in the TVGOS. They use 1000-1490 for all their 'In-demand' channels.

I wouldn't subscribe to cable except that the 'standard' 75 channel service is provided by my condo association, so I just added the $3 cc service and digital 'upgrade'. Both my machines seem to work fine with cablecards.

You said you are using the same antenna but how are you connected? Via splitter or is the unit in another room via a different coax? You have probably already done this but you might want to simply disconnect and lift out the old unit, replacing it with the new one, using the old connections. You could simply have a coax shielding problem or a faulty splitter (if used). Also consider cable length differences if the new unit is in a different room - an amplifier may be necessary.

Hope this helps!

Lyca

hi Lyca,
I also tried it with no splitter, and still no signal. The TVGOS is there with all the programming. Analog channels are there, just no HD.

The moral of this experience is simple: If you find one of these display units at a Sears location it may have also been placed in the store by Sony. If you suspect this, suck up to the lowest member of the sales staff as possible and hope he/she can come up with a way to sell it to you without calling Sony (or anyone up the chain that will give them a call). OK, this is probably a little underhanded and borderline cheating.

Same thing here at the Circuit City in my area. I inquired (they had 2, one sitting on the same shelf with the open box items) and got the reponse that "Sony sent them," "we don't know what to do with them," "they are not in the system," "Sorry, we have to hold on to them and can't sell them right now"

So I left it at that, already having one and another in transit to me :D

For those who are interesting, I just picked one HDD250 from Fry's at Burbank, CA. They're still having two HDD250 and one HDD500. Those are brand new in the box but they sell it for full price ($5xx, $9xx)

For those who are interesting, I just picked one HDD250 from Fry's at Burbank, CA. They're still having two HDD250 and one HDD500. Those are brand new in the box but they sell it for full price ($5xx, $9xx)

Same at the Austin, TX Fry's...been that way for about the last 4 months...actually, the 250 was $7xx until recently when it dropped to $5xx.

Last time I checked they had 4 HDD250's and 1 HDD500 not counting the displays.

Same thing here at the Circuit City in my area. I inquired (they had 2, one sitting on the same shelf with the open box items) and got the reponse that "Sony sent them," "we don't know what to do with them," "they are not in the system," "Sorry, we have to hold on to them and can't sell them right now"

So I left it at that, already having one and another in transit to me :D

Travis,
I bought my 250 at a Circuit City in Orlando. It was with "open box" items but had no pricing info, like the ones you saw. It took two trips to the store to finally get it. I spoke with two different salesmen on my first trip to the store. They were very nice but knew nothing about the unit, didn't know how it got there and couldn't sell it. I spoke to a supervisor on the second trip and he found a "tag" number for it. The unit showed a sale price of $250 in their system. They looked for the box for about 30 minutes and could only come up with the remote (no cables or manual). They offered to sell me a $120 Monster Cable brand HDMI cable for half price to get the thing running so I asked them to just sell me the unit for $150 instead. They accepted. I then went to Walmart and bought a Phillips HDMI cable for $40 (works great!).

While you already have a second unit coming, keep in mind it IS possible to get different results when doing the same thing over again. Perhaps you could go for a third unit (???) or someone else may want to try their luck with different people at your Circuit City...

The "tag" number Circuit City entered in their system for my unit is 3561016070. I don't know if this is a general Circuit City item number for DHG-HDD250s or if it is a local store inventory number but it might be worth talking to a salesman about.

Regards,
Lyca

Help I am really frustrated with this guide thing. Once you know what your host channel is what are you supposed to do with that information to help the guide work? My tv passed the
vbi g test. But what else am I supposed to do to help the guide show up. Why do you find the host channel?

Thanks

Help I am really frustrated with this guide thing. Once you know what your host channel is what are you supposed to do with that information to help the guide work? My tv passed the
vbi g test. But what else am I supposed to do to help the guide show up. Why do you find the host channel?

Thanks

Wait 24 hours and the guide should populate. You really only need to know the guide channel if you are having problems. Mine worked from day one without a hitch.

While you already have a second unit coming, keep in mind it IS possible to get different results when doing the same thing over again. Perhaps you could go for a third unit (???) or someone else may want to try their luck with different people at your Circuit City...


Yes, I could do that, but after all that work I'd be tempted to resell it for a profit :)...Might attempt it if the one that is on it's way doesn't work properly, or maybe even for a backup.

Following up on another poster, who said he saw them in DE, I called my local Sony outlet in Woodbury, NY.

They had the 250's in stock, for $299. There was one 500 on display, but none "in stock". All are "remanufactured", supposedly, but my two :) units are both totally new. The shipping labels are from california, and the boxes I have are "of 19" shipped, so I can guess there are at least 17 left (?). They are not on the websites.

I've had them running for a day now, and I already can't live without them. The TVGOS menu system is still up on my learning curve, but I programmed all of my shows by time and channel.

I get the HDTV OTA, and use E* for the other channels. I have a simple E* DVR, but to upgrade to the Vip box for HDTV would have run $199 plus a rise of $20 per month in the cable bill. (why I'd have to pay an HD fee to record OTA is a mystery), so the numbers work out really well-but I am lucky to be in a great OTA location, up on a hill with line of sight to NYC.

In a normal world, these boxes would sit on shelves all over....but I'm guessing that TIVO has a patent issue going, and the "content providers" want to keep us in 1965 as far as controlling HDTV goes, or at least have us on boxes that can be remotely shut off (a concern with the E* box). So, the makers still make the boxes, but sell them to large providers, who have a captive Audience. $$.

One box is feeding a sony HDTV, via the HDMI port....no issues to report, and I can't tell any difference between the recorder's feed and the internal tuner in the TV.

The other box is feeding an SD ancient set with s-video, and that cranky 15 year old set never looked so good.

While this is clearly in the break in phase, and I DID buy the two year service plan, I'm still amazed, and more amazed that no one "makes these anymore".

Wait 24 hours and the guide should populate. You really only need to know the guide channel if you are having problems. Mine worked from day one without a hitch.
sorry I didn't mention I have been waiting for weeks on and off the guide appears on one of my units then disappears, also on a new unit I just received it's been 2 days and nothing. Please advise what you do with the host information.


Thanks

greg

Are these new or used? Maybe you need to try some of the reset procedures. See Spiff's info site for the host info and reset info.

well day 12 and 8 showed up today so far so good showed up today

glad to see someone was paying attention. I bet we'll see a lot of the 250's show up NIB as "refurbs." Still quite pleased with my new 500.... if only i could add another one to the component stack under the TV w/o the gf noticing...

having some trouble with my newly installed Comcast CC not showing the premium HD channels (Starz, show, max, hbo etc....) in the CC menus, it says these channels are copy protected.... comcast is coming out for a look today... i'll let you all know how it turns out. strange, because i get all my other channels with the CC just fine, including the non-premium hd cable channels.

anyone who wants one of these, already factory updated to the new f/w only available after production stopped, check your local sony outlet store. i bet these will continue to filter in through the next few months as sony unloads old inventory....


Following up on another poster, who said he saw them in DE, I called my local Sony outlet in Woodbury, NY.

They had the 250's in stock, for $299. There was one 500 on display, but none "in stock". All are "remanufactured", supposedly, but my two :) units are both totally new. The shipping labels are from california, and the boxes I have are "of 19" shipped, so I can guess there are at least 17 left (?). They are not on the websites.

I've had them running for a day now, and I already can't live without them. The TVGOS menu system is still up on my learning curve, but I programmed all of my shows by time and channel.

I get the HDTV OTA, and use E* for the other channels. I have a simple E* DVR, but to upgrade to the Vip box for HDTV would have run $199 plus a rise of $20 per month in the cable bill. (why I'd have to pay an HD fee to record OTA is a mystery), so the numbers work out really well-but I am lucky to be in a great OTA location, up on a hill with line of sight to NYC.

In a normal world, these boxes would sit on shelves all over....but I'm guessing that TIVO has a patent issue going, and the "content providers" want to keep us in 1965 as far as controlling HDTV goes, or at least have us on boxes that can be remotely shut off (a concern with the E* box). So, the makers still make the boxes, but sell them to large providers, who have a captive Audience. $$.

One box is feeding a sony HDTV, via the HDMI port....no issues to report, and I can't tell any difference between the recorder's feed and the internal tuner in the TV.

The other box is feeding an SD ancient set with s-video, and that cranky 15 year old set never looked so good.

While this is clearly in the break in phase, and I DID buy the two year service plan, I'm still amazed, and more amazed that no one "makes these anymore".

I'm having a strange output problem and can't figure out where the problem lies. Wanted to see if anyone else experienced this.

Connections
1) HDD250 connected to Panasonic (DMR-E80H) DVD Recorder via S-video
2) Output (when down converting) set to SD Out / Squeezed

Program records fine to a DVD-RAM on the Panasonic DVD Recorder, plays back fine (480i) on the Panasonic Recorder and on my PC. I then take the DVD-RAM to my computer to edit out commercials and re-author (keeps the 16:9 flag this way).

The problem I'm having is that the final material is coming out in a mix format of 16:9 and 4:3 :eek: This obviously isn't DVD compliant and I can't edit. I can't figure out if it is the original broadcast, output from the Sony, recording of the recorder. Or maybe a bad cable?

I tried 2 different football games (one CBS, one ABC) and the aspect switch (visible only in Womble - half of image is skewed) doesn't happen in the same spot. One was 2 hours 3 minutes into the first game and the second try was 5 minutes into the game. I have also dubbed over a 1 hour program (CSI:NY) without any problems at all.

I did re-burn the program (had one saved on my recorders hard drive) and the aspect switch happened in the same spot, so I eliminated bad media as a problem

Test so far:
1) Replaced cable with higher AWG cable and dubbed over CSI - original. Although the original broadcast had a brief audio/video synch, the recording worked just fine. Looking at the possibility that it was the cable or live broadcast causing the problem. Will record some more football tomorrow to see if the same thing occurs.



Anyone else familiar with this?

I saw one of these in Circut City. It was "display only", and sent by Sony to feed the 1080p SXRD set.

It was fun to disturb the staff by cycling the 60 inch SXRD through 480 i, 720 p and 1080i settings. Finally answered my personal 1080 vs 720 issue....you can see a difference, if you are watching a 60 inch set, and you go close up. At a distance, there's no real difference.

Most of the pictures (the gadget was set in display mode) were landscapes with little active movement.

So, where is the Mark II version of this thing ?

I have a problem with my HDD250 and wonder if any one has encountered this same problem. I have HDMI connection from the HDD250 to my TV HDMI. I used to be able to cycle through the Format from 1080i, 720P, 480P, 480i, Native, Variable 1, 2, 3, SD Out, Auto HDMI, but now the only option I have is Auto HDMI, 720P, 480P, 480i, Variable 1, 2, 3. 1080i and Native is missing the Format choices. Any one out have this same problem? Any way to get them back would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

I used to be able to cycle through the Format from 1080i, 720P, 480P, 480i, Native, Variable 1, 2, 3, SD Out, Auto HDMI, but now the only option I have is Auto HDMI, 720P, 480P, 480i, Variable 1, 2, 3. 1080i and Native is missing the Format choices.
I've never had Native as an option over the HDMI connection to my Crystalio II.

I'm thinking about getting an HDD250/500 for use with analog cable recording. Is it worth it? I know I will not be able to use all the machine was meant for, but at the current price point, it is a viable option to a Panasonic 55 or Pioneer 640. I don't need the DVD burning capability and don't care about the TV Guide function as I'll just program the old fashioned way ... like a VCR.

Any thoughts?

I'm thinking about getting an HDD250/500 for use with analog cable recording. Is it worth it? I know I will not be able to use all the machine was meant for, but at the current price point, it is a viable option to a Panasonic 55 or Pioneer 640. I don't need the DVD burning capability and don't care about the TV Guide function as I'll just program the old fashioned way ... like a VCR.

Any thoughts?

Should you buy a Lamborghini if you aren't going to drive fast? :D Your best bet would probably be the Polaroid DVD recorder with 80GB hard drive (~35-40 hours analog cable recording time). Look at Wal-Mart, I think they retail for about $220 which should be far less expensive than you can find the discontinued Sony HD DVR.

I'm thinking about getting an HDD250/500 for use with analog cable recording. Is it worth it? I know I will not be able to use all the machine was meant for, but at the current price point, it is a viable option to a Panasonic 55 or Pioneer 640. I don't need the DVD burning capability and don't care about the TV Guide function as I'll just program the old fashioned way ... like a VCR.

Any thoughts?

The Sonys will store many more hours than the other units. Also, you will have a unit that is HDTV ready if someday you decide to want to record in HD.

Ray

I've had this unit for (3) days. I turned off the DVR foe the past two nights and the TV Guide has populated correctly. I am very happy with this.

There is one thing that I noticed (it may have been my fault though). I have connected my Sony to both HD antenna and a Comcast cable feed. I discontinued cable months ago, but still receive about 30 something channels for free.

The deal is that I can receive channels like BRAVO, TNT, PAX, Food Network etc. in the listing, but they aren't associated with the correct channels. Also with these digital channels above, I can only receive the video, but no audio.

I may need to reset the box (back to when I first plugged it in) to correct the lineup scenario. Can someone please tell me if they have the same experience or how I can reset the box. Thank you very much.

The Sonys will store many more hours than the other units. Also, you will have a unit that is HDTV ready if someday you decide to want to record in HD.

RayI agree totally. Go for the Sony.

You won't be able to use the analog tuner in the NTSC-only model after the cutoff.

(The hard drive in the Polaroid can be easily replaced with a larger one, apparently, but I believe the tuner is only mono.)

Thanks for the help. I got an HDD500 for the price of a Panasonic 55 ... Lamborghini for the price of a Yugo!

I discontinued cable months ago, but still receive about 30 something channels for free.

The deal is that I can receive channels like BRAVO, TNT, PAX, Food Network etc. in the listing, but they aren't associated with the correct channels. Also with these digital channels above, I can only receive the video, but no audio.


Let me guess, you still get cable internet through the cable company? I have heard that sometimes "flipping on" the internet switch also turns on the digital cable channels that come with the basic package. Sounds like your case.

Assuming you have no problem with the OTA channels, why not try calling the cable company, tell them you don't have cable, but are having audio problems with the digital HD channels :D I bet paying for cable would make these problems go away.

Let me guess, you still get cable internet through the cable company? I have heard that sometimes "flipping on" the internet switch also turns on the digital cable channels that come with the basic package. Sounds like your case.

Assuming you have no problem with the OTA channels, why not try calling the cable company, tell them you don't have cable, but are having audio problems with the digital HD channels :D I bet paying for cable would make these problems go away.

:) No, I never had cable internet (use SBC YAhoo DSL). It's weird. Before using the Sony DVR, I could get about 39 channels(mainly just basic channels) just from plugging in the coax from the wall. Now, I have the coax connected to the Sony DVR and I get additional cable channels, but no audio. Very strange.

:eek:

sounds like someone did not do a proper cut-off at the house / apartment previously. In my last house (2001-2006), I received all the "standard" package for 5 years. Apparently the previous owners had cable and they disconnected and I didn't re-connect...no one ever came out to do a physical disconnect.

sounds like someone did not do a proper cut-off at the house / apartment previously. In my last house (2001-2006), I received all the "standard" package for 5 years. Apparently the previous owners had cable and they disconnected and I didn't re-connect...no one ever came out to do a physical disconnect.

Yep...that's probably what happened. That's not really that point of my post though. I wonder why I can get video of someof these channels, but no audio. Is it the Sony or my cable feed (not being completely shut off)?

Yep...that's probably what happened. That's not really that point of my post though. I wonder why I can get video of someof these channels, but no audio. Is it the Sony or my cable feed (not being completely shut off)?

Reset won't solve your audio problem. If you get audio when cable is connected directly to your tv, you should be able to get it with the Sony. You can try different audio preferences and rescan of the cable channels. If channel numbers are wrong, you can change them in the setup menu.

Ray

So, hooked up the two new hdd250's. One is running OK, recording, and nothing bad to report-hooked up via HDMI to an HD set, it's like the other half of the TV set that should have come this way from the factory !

Last night, WNBC, 4.1 ran at 3 am or so the new High Def remastered "old series" star trek. Since it was shot on film, the images are beautiful. The colors are vivid, and you can even see the plastic in the makeup. The CGI enhancements are not obtrusive. This I wish I could archive in HD !!! One happy geek ! :)

The other hdd250 was cranky from the get=go. :confused: The tuner would freeze, and rescans, resets and Service menu resets didn't fix it. Back to the Sony Outlet store I go....... The unit got time, began to download TVGOS, but would lock up. The front buttons would cease to do anything, the remote was not responded to, and the only thing to do would be reset. There was also an issue where quitting the TVGOS menu meant the programming menu would disappear, leaving the thumbnail of the current channel running, in the upper left hand corner. It would tend to stick on channel 50, but finally clung to 2.1, which is UHF 56, and would not do anything. The four buttons on the right were all "dead", and only the Power button worked. Maybe it was angry with me for hooking it up to a SD set ! :eek:

Both units have the most recent .13 firmware.

I have 2 of the 500s. On one, sometimes if I change the 'Format' setting from say, 720p, HDMI, 1080i, 480i, it doesn't like it and will want to freeze up. After some coaxing I can get it straightened out. I think it's a bug, workable, but a bug.

Interesting post I saw on another site. (http://www.tvpredictions.com/casey102206.htm)

Reset won't solve your audio problem. If you get audio when cable is connected directly to your tv, you should be able to get it with the Sony. You can try different audio preferences and rescan of the cable channels. If channel numbers are wrong, you can change them in the setup menu.

Ray

Worth a try, but since they are not paying for it, the best thing you can try is another machine (other than a Sony DVR) that has a QAM tuner to see if you get different results.

"My friend" that has only internet through TWC can pick up the un-encrypted channels fine on his Sony QAM tuner, not at all on his Westinghouse TV QAM tuner, and then gets wrong/no audio on his LG QAM tuner on certain channels. I know that if "my friend" paid for at least the basic cable package, these problems would more than likely go away. :)

Having a problem with my newly purchased HGD-HDD250 in that its cablecard does not hold onto all the channels after the Guide is populated. What this means is that all the channels that I am supposed to receive are available when the cablecard for the DVR is incerted but after the guide populates......the guide info is there but you can not tune into many channels (like all my channels in the movie tier). This is Cox in Phoenix that I am dealing with and I have a Sony TV with another cablecard installed (of course I get all the channels on the TV with the original cablecard installed. Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Reset won't solve your audio problem. If you get audio when cable is connected directly to your tv, you should be able to get it with the Sony. You can try different audio preferences and rescan of the cable channels. If channel numbers are wrong, you can change them in the setup menu.

Ray

Ray-

Thanks for the advice. I've tried different audio settings, b ut have not tried to reset the machine. I think I will try that.

"My friend" is not willing to pay for even basic cable. We watch network TV anyway and am very, very happy about the HD PQ on this machine. I think it's even better than the HD was receiving on a VOOM receiver I bought off the web :)

Hmmm, I didn't think to try Sears. But no matter. I ordered an HDD500 from an ebay seller and I should have it on Monday.

Now I just hope that I can receive the TVGOS signal. I'm reading that is the only way to set the clock (for timer recordings). I do have three PBS broadcast stations in my area (one runs the PBS-HD feed continuously) so I'm hoping I won't have any problems with this.

Dave

Well, I received my HDD500 yesterday and got it hooked up to my system last night. I got up once during the middle of the night and was glad to see that the unit was displaying the proper time on its front panel display. This morning before I left for work I turned it (and my TV) on briefly to see that the TVGOS had loaded overnight. I'm not sure if all of the stations were there yet but there were many.

Now I just have to learn how to actually use this thing . . .


Dave

Is there any indication on any status screen that would tell me if the 250 unit that I have has been upgraded with the 161-6 fix or not? Don't have cable now, but if in the future this unit gets a cable card, I would rather not have any surprises then.

Is there any indication on any status screen that would tell me if the 250 unit that I have has been upgraded with the 161-6 fix or not? Don't have cable now, but if in the future this unit gets a cable card, I would rather not have any surprises then.

I am not aware of any, but you could check your firmware version. If it isn't the .13 version, I would guess that it has NOT had the fix. If it is .13, this still isn't a guarantee that it does have the fix.

I am not aware of any, but you could check your firmware version. If it isn't the .13 version, I would guess that it has NOT had the fix. If it is .13, this still isn't a guarantee that it does have the fix.


Spiff-

I just have to say "THANK YOU" so much for your FAQ and your adds from the original FAQ. It has helped me so much in working with the menus.

How do people figure out the codes to get into the service menu, etc?

Thank you again for your hard work.

In addition, I'm a little frustrated that when you rest the unit, it looks for analog channels and digital connected. Is there anyway that I can reset the unit and manip. into just looking for OTA HD channels and basic cable channel lineup? It seems to be picking up (although not well) the analog channels from my HD antenna too.

The Woodbury Commons Sony Outlet in Monroe, NY has 10 250s selling for $300. In store pickup only.

The Outlet near me in TX has the 250s for that price too. they had the 500s for almost 3X as much tho :(
I already have 2 of the 500s. tempted to get a backup. The 250 price is okay but I got my 500s for not too much more on ebay 6 months ago.

So, I go back today to Woodbury to swap out the frozen unit. Viewers will recall that my last unit had a "sticky tuner', where changing channels slowly would cause a full crash of the unit, making it unresponsive to any front inputs other than "power" and " reboot".

The staff is nice, I explain, I get new unit, I drive home. Opening the box, I find I can't take the "new" one. The silver label on the back that says "Removal of this label voids warranty is Missing :eek:

Since I bought a two year extended warranty, it was BACK in the car for a second go round. The staff said they'd never seen this before, but gave me yet another. This one is so far so good, like my downstairs unit.

Today I checked a local Sony Style and one Circuit City store; no dice. Then I went to Fry's for the first time. They've got a stack of the 250 model, but want 599.00 for 'em. I'll try and wait out a price reduction.

I love my 500 and would love to pick up a 250...too bad there's not a Sony outlet store anywhere near my area. :(

I love my 500 and would love to pick up a 250...too bad there's not a Sony outlet store anywhere near my area. :(

I don't know if any of you would be interested but I've got a refurbed Sony 250 for $450.00 or maybe a little less. It's in box and all components, manuals, etc. are sealed.

Okay, this is getting dire again.
Especially when we don't watch tv much and when we do, we missed Survivor two weeks in a row and about to miss the third !!
I guess I'll do the manual rec for this week.

My vbi feed is there on a local KCET off cable here in Los Angeles.
But the listings are not coming through.
Today I have no listings except for this coming Friday.

How can I force it to get the tvgos data from OTA ?
Would a system reset help?

Thanks a bunch.

Okay, this is getting dire again.
Especially when we don't watch tv much and when we do, we missed Survivor two weeks in a row and about to miss the third !!
I guess I'll do the manual rec for this week.

My vbi feed is there on a local KCET off cable here in Los Angeles.
But the listings are not coming through.
Today I have no listings except for this coming Friday.

How can I force it to get the tvgos data from OTA ?
Would a system reset help?

Thanks a bunch.

The unit will automatically seek the correct guide channel, while it is in standby. When I first got my 250, guide data came in on Comcast Cable channel 3 but now that station doesn't provide guide data even though it passes VBI test.

Ray

Okay, this is getting dire again.
Especially when we don't watch tv much and when we do, we missed Survivor two weeks in a row and about to miss the third !!
I guess I'll do the manual rec for this week.

My vbi feed is there on a local KCET off cable here in Los Angeles.
But the listings are not coming through.
Today I have no listings except for this coming Friday.

How can I force it to get the tvgos data from OTA ?
Would a system reset help?

Thanks a bunch.

Yes, you can force the host channel to be an OTA channel.
Check Spiff's DVR FAQ - look above for a Spiff post and check out his signature.


Mitch

Any idea how to force a channel to be recognized ?

I have a problem with NJN, Channel 50.1, .3 .4 and.5 It is a PBS station, and normally 50.1 is a digital feed of their analog station, .3 and .4 are public affairs.

In the evening they fire up 50.5, the HD channel, while shutting down .3 and making .4 a static picture.

I cannot get the HDD250's to see 50.5. I've rescanned, and confirmed with other receivers that it is active, but the DVRs don't see it. Directly inputting the virtual and real channels has no effect.

Any magic sequence of non intuitve keypunches ?

Any idea how to force a channel to be recognized ?
I cannot get the HDD250's to see 50.5. I've rescanned, and confirmed with other receivers that it is active, but the DVRs don't see it. Directly inputting the virtual and real channels has no effect.


Have you tried a complete rescan "Auto Scan" when the 50.5 channel is active? Note then 50.3 and .4 will not be available. The PSIP information is saved when you do a scan and never looked at again. A "Auto Add from Antenna" scan will only add channels where the PSIP info was available on previous scans. It would be great if Sony would add a refresh PSIP info scan.

Have you tried a complete rescan "Auto Scan" when the 50.5 channel is active? Note then 50.3 and .4 will not be available. The PSIP information is saved when you do a scan and never looked at again. A "Auto Add from Antenna" scan will only add channels where the PSIP info was available on previous scans. It would be great if Sony would add a refresh PSIP info scan.


Thanks ! I'll give that a try tonight after 8 when the HD channel is on. I Had been using "auto add", which oddly for my Sony TV, did pick up that elusive .5 channel. I could lose .3 and .4 and not care.

I recently purchased this Sony and I'm having trouble with the OTA tuner. More specifically, I'm having trouble with poor reception. I get great reception when I connect my directly to my Panny plasma. I get terrible reception when I disconnect the antenna from my Panny and connect it to the Sony. Is the tuner in the Sony that much worse at tuning marginal signals? I already have a large multidirectional antenna mounted above my roofline and a good pre-amp so it doesn't seem like I could do much more to improve my signal strength at this time.

I just got my HDD500 a couple of days ago an have a couple of questions concerning how it "does it's thing". I may not have all of the terminology correct, as I'm still in the learning phase for this device.

Regarding the "pause buffer" of 30, 60, or 90 minutes, is it a fact that this buffer is always being recorded whenever the unit is "on" and tuned to a station?

When I "pause" or "rewind" a live broadcast I can detect no switchover from live to memorex. Is watching "live" actually watching the buffer? In other words, are you always watching the buffer when watching this device?

If I miss the beginning of a show (but the HDD500 was on and tuned to the channel I want), can I then set a scheduled recording using TVGOS to record the show from the beginning thru the end and save it to a file?

Is there any other way to save the pause buffer (or a portion of it) to a file?


I hope these questions make sense . . .


Dave

Yes it is always recording what is onscreen. Just go to the TVGuide screen, what you are tuned on will be highlighted, push record. It will set up a recorded program which starts whenever you first tuned into the program, not just when you pushed the record button, this buffer can be set for up to 2 hours.
the buffer is cut if you change channels, turn the unit off, etc before you push record.
Since it is always buffering, yes you can hit rewind at any tiome and see what was already broadcast without hitting record. Record button just saves the program for future viewing, but it always recording to the temporary buffer what is onscreen.
Make any sense?

My Sony gets 2 less OTA channels than my Vizio TV and my Samsung set top box. The Sony OTA receiver seems to be very weak.

Have you tried a complete rescan "Auto Scan" when the 50.5 channel is active? Note then 50.3 and .4 will not be available. The PSIP information is saved when you do a scan and never looked at again. A "Auto Add from Antenna" scan will only add channels where the PSIP info was available on previous scans. It would be great if Sony would add a refresh PSIP info scan.

I have the same problem with WNJS 23.1/3/4 and 5 in Camden. When 3 and 4 are on, 5 is off. When 5 is on, one of the others (can't remember which) is off. Why would Sony design this unit so that it would be totally unable to deal with this relatively common situation, i.e.: stations reallocating their bandwidth usage to accomodate HD programming at certain times of the day? The workaround is to manually tune/record 22.7, which equates to PSIP 23.5, but that's a pretty off-the-wall solution for the average-bear viewer to stumble upon, and still doesn't allow the station to be part of the CH+/- list. As an engineer myself, I bemoan the state of the profession in this country, but I thought the Japanese were better.

In your case, find out what UHF channel 50.x is on, then punch in <that channel>.7 and you should get 50.5.

I just upgraded to digital cable with a cablecard in my 500, unfortunately all the cable HD channels here are numbered above 1500. The TVGOS does not allow setting channels above 999 I assume. and most of these channels are not showing up automatically in the TVGOS. I can tune them all tho.
It just makes tuning and searching the HD channels very non-user friendly.
Overall I love the HDD500s I have. I hear it's unusual for cable cos to number above 1000? but my local TW has lots of channels above 1000.

To record HBO-HD I have to manually tune to 1670 for HBOHD. then I go to TVGuide to see the HBO-SD lisitngs I do get in the program guide #701 to see what I want to record. Once I see it and the time, I have to move to the top of the TVGOS screen where the tuned channel 1670 shows up as just CABLE with no program names. Then I have to pick a starting 30 minute block on channel 1670 and hit Menu to set up recording. Then I go to the Scheduled screen which offers setting up detailed times for on and off (manual settings). I've done this for a day or 2, but I see now I should just go to the manual recording screen and set up all the parameters there.
All this to record an unnamed HBOHD program.
Great machine, but it can't do everything with the the hundreds of different cable co set ups.

Gigaguy -

Thanks for the response (and the PM). I'm sure I'll have some additional questions as time goes on. I really need to spend some more time just playing with the unit also, to "learn by doing". But its kind of hard to experiment while the WAF is sitting there trying to actually watch a show . . . :eek: :eek: :eek:


Dave

Interesting post I saw on another site. (http://www.tvpredictions.com/casey102206.htm)Hmmmmm.

Almost seems as if he might be hinting at some kind of possible conspiracy there. ;)

Can't say that the thought has actually never entered my mind either. :rolleyes:

Hmmmmm.

Almost seems as if he might be hinting at some kind of possible conspiracy there. ;)

Can't say that the thought has actually never entered my mind either. :rolleyes:

Actually, I see it more as a customer demand issue. Since a large chunk of the US uses cable/satellite, there isn't a huge demand for a stand alone unit.

If you can get an HD DVR for $5/month (they are already paying for cable/satellite), the break even point over purchasing a LG, Sony, etc. comes out to over 13 years for an MSRP product at $800. Just doesn't make sense to the bulk of the people in the US. (I only have OTA, so the break even point for me is much less as I would have to factor the cost of cable into that equation).

These products are a niche product that most manufacturers have abandoned...seems that the software / service that TiVo provides seems to be the only real exception....or maybe they got them hooked early with cheap/free devices.

That's true about the costs (unless you were lucky enough to get the DHG-HDD500 during the Tweeter closeout, when they were only $249.99!).

But giving less money to the cable/satellite companies always makes me feel better. ;) :)

Actually, I see it more as a customer demand issue. Since a large chunk of the US uses cable/satellite, there isn't a huge demand for a stand alone unit.

<snip>


This touches on something that bothers me (but doesn't really surprise me).
Lots of folks I talk think that the only way to get HD is via cable.
They don't realize there's tons of great HD OTA. They're always surprised when I tell them not only is it free OTA, but I'm using an antenna I installed in the attic 20 years ago when I bought the house.


Mitch

If you can get an HD DVR for $5/month (they are already paying for cable/satellite), the break even point over purchasing a LG, Sony, etc. comes out to over 13 years for an MSRP product at $800. Just doesn't make sense to the bulk of the people in the US. (I only have OTA, so the break even point for me is much less as I would have to factor the cost of cable into that equation).

These products are a niche product that most manufacturers have abandoned...seems that the software / service that TiVo provides seems to be the only real exception....or maybe they got them hooked early with cheap/free devices.

Yes, but you can't get the DVR for $5. There is an upgrade fee, $199 as of now. It used to be higher. You pay a $5 DVR fee. You pay a $6 HDTV fee, and you have to upgrade to the HDTV tier, which runs another $10 per month. Now you do get a few HD channels, but that is not what I want. If you want locals, that is another $5 per month for that package.

I like my dish service overall, but to upgrade just so I could record Free OTA HDTV onto some sort of gadget would run out of pocket close to $500 for the first year, and the Sat bill goes from a reasonable $45 per month (america's top 120 with two tuners) to a less happy @ $70 per month, assuming you hook up to a phone line and don't buy the "locals" package.

Now I know that in Cable land, even that is very reasonable, but if you can get OTA free in your situation paying makes less than no sense

The two DVRs are "paid for" in less than two years. Remember the phone company before the breakups....vast fortunes were made forcing you to rent the phone (s). For the DVR box and the mandatory package-tier upgrades, it is a lot more the $5 per month.

My relatives in NYC pay $85 per month for HDTV in NYC..........

CableCARD info for interested folks in Chicago:

Card firmware version 4.21 is available in the near downtown area. The new card was installed in my HDD500 today, and (I hope) will solve the premium channel "recording not permitted by service provider" problem.

Personally, I think the reason these units are no longer in production is a simple matter of money. Somewhere along the lines they seen they had made a mistake selling something to the public where they would be able to record HDTV OTA programming for free.

I have DirecTV but only the basic package. There is no way I'm going to pay for a new HDTV Tivo receiver and then pay the extremely high rates for programming, much less pay 5 bucks a month for local stations, when I can get all my locals in HDTV with an antenna which costs nothing to rent per month.

For what I do and need with TV, my 250 is perfect. It does exactly what I expected of it when purchased. I can also record from sat but don't have listings (well only one, cable channel 4). This is fine though. It's not a big problem recording manually from sat.

To me, these units are a no brainer. Sure, they have their quirks but it's the nicest piece of electronic equipment I've purchased in a long time. Nothing beats being able to time shift your TV viewing and not pay a rental fee every month.

Mike

I recently purchased this Sony and I'm having trouble with the OTA tuner. More specifically, I'm having trouble with poor reception. I get great reception when I connect my directly to my Panny plasma. I get terrible reception when I disconnect the antenna from my Panny and connect it to the Sony. Is the tuner in the Sony that much worse at tuning marginal signals? I already have a large multidirectional antenna mounted above my roofline and a good pre-amp so it doesn't seem like I could do much more to improve my signal strength at this time.

What signal strength do you get on HDTV channels? With HDTV, you either get a good picture or nothing. I wonder if the preamp is overdriving the input. Are you connecting the antenna signal to the correct input? Most people think that the Sony has a good tuner.
One other thought. With a rotary antenna, I assume you have to do multiple scans to capture all the digital channels. You won't be able to receive a digital channel that hasn't been detected by scan processes.

Ray

Hmmmmm.

Almost seems as if he might be hinting at some kind of possible conspiracy there. ;)

Can't say that the thought has actually never entered my mind either. :rolleyes:

Interesting article. Is there a conspiracy out there? Perhaps. Are there major conflicts of interest between Business Divisions under huge corporate umbrellas (e.g. Sony)? Absolutely!

I am one of those OTA people. My wife and I tried Cable for 3 months back in 1985. We turned it off, bought an antenna and never looked back. I realize service quality and programming has improved drastically since 1985 ( I love the watching the History Channel at my brother's house) but we probably watch too much via OTA as it is.

We can't justify paying someone to help in our certain demise as we slowly turn into blobs of fat, melting into the couch. Clearly this is what would happen to us if we had Cable or Dish. I, at least, have no discipline... I also can't see paying extra for an inferior (compressed) HDTV signal, nor can I justify additional money for the right to record programming coming into my home.

This is where DVRs/PVRs like the HDD250/500 shine for OTA folks. I keep searching the net, looking for any manufacturer's next box like these but, as with the conspiracy theory, there doesn't seem to be anything out there. I was really hoping that Sony or anyone else would introduce a next generation DVR with dual or multiple tuners but, from my small viewpoint, I only see companies fearing law suits from TiVo and that ilk, and manufacturing divisions bowing to corporate pressure not to kill/affect potential revenue streams that a service division may be looking at.

OK, off of the soapbox. However, if you are an OTA diehard, watch for any legislation that may eventually alter or do away with the FCC mandated free "service" provided by network affiliates and local broadcasting stations. These guys would jump at the chance to turn off their mega-watt OTA transmitter money pits and simply route digital streams to Cable and Satellite providers. The lobbyists are out there, representing broadcasters and content providers as well (back to the conspiracy theory???). It's just a matter of time before we start seeing bills introduced to place a sunset on OTA and to put more teeth into intellectual property rights for programming you enjoy in your home.

Vote NO on everything!

Regards, Lyca ( :rolleyes: I swear I’m not a nut case, just passionate about some things)

What signal strength do you get on HDTV channels? With HDTV, you either get a good picture or nothing. I wonder if the preamp is overdriving the input. Are you connecting the antenna signal to the correct input? Most people think that the Sony has a good tuner.
One other thought. With a rotary antenna, I assume you have to do multiple scans to capture all the digital channels. You won't be able to receive a digital channel that hasn't been detected by scan processes.

Ray

Well, I admit to not knowing what the signal strength is when my antenna is connected to the Sony because I'm not familiar enough with it yet to know where that number is displayed. When connected to my Panny, it's generally in the 50-70% range. Connected to my Panny, I receive 9 digital channels. Connected to the Sony, I receive 2 okay and 2 poorly and don't receive the rest. I do not have a rotary antenna as all those channels pretty much originate at the same angle from my home. I'm definitely connected to the antenna input on the Sony. I'm pretty stumped. No doubt there are differences in tuner quality, but this one seems like quite a big difference.

Well, I admit to not knowing what the signal strength is when my antenna is connected to the Sony because I'm not familiar enough with it yet to know where that number is displayed. When connected to my Panny, it's generally in the 50-70% range. Connected to my Panny, I receive 9 digital channels. Connected to the Sony, I receive 2 okay and 2 poorly and don't receive the rest. I do not have a rotary antenna as all those channels pretty much originate at the same angle from my home. I'm definitely connected to the antenna input on the Sony. I'm pretty stumped. No doubt there are differences in tuner quality, but this one seems like quite a big difference.

Menu > Preferences > System Menu
Bottom of the screen

I was so happy getting my second sony dvr a 500. My first one is a 250. Set it up and is running perfectly. All the list were download it overnight. Set the 500 to be controlled by the remote as "code 51". Both unitas are hook up to an UPS and basic cable plus a "rabbit" antenna for TVGOS (in seattle is carry by ch 9)
The only problem is my wife... she wants just one DVR in the house! Guess is time to find a new wife ! LOL

I was so happy getting my second sony dvr a 500. My first one is a 250. Set it up and is running perfectly. All the list were download it overnight. Set the 500 to be controlled by the remote as "code 51". Both unitas are hook up to an UPS and basic cable plus a "rabbit" antenna for TVGOS (in seattle is carry by ch 9)
The only problem is my wife... she wants just one DVR in the house! Guess is time to find a new wife ! LOL

AMEN [GRIN] - You need multiple DVR's.

I was so happy getting my second sony dvr a 500. My first one is a 250. Set it up and is running perfectly. All the list were download it overnight. Set the 500 to be controlled by the remote as "code 51". Both unitas are hook up to an UPS and basic cable plus a "rabbit" antenna for TVGOS (in seattle is carry by ch 9)
The only problem is my wife... she wants just one DVR in the house! Guess is time to find a new wife ! LOL
Do you mind if I ask, but where did you get your 2nd unit at?

Thanks!

Do you mind if I ask, but where did you get your 2nd unit at?

Thanks!

I got it at the sony outlet near to everett. I was told it was the last one... it was actually a return. But for me it is working just fine. Seems most of the problem could be fix by having the unit w/UPS and "forcing the host channel"... now I must look for a new wife... LOL :)

Menu > Preferences > System Menu
Bottom of the screen

Thankfully, the guess about the pre-amp overdriving the Sony was right on the money. I took the pre-amp out of the loop and--POW!!--9 clean as a whistle digital channels after a channel scan. Thanks for the suggestion. It is much appreciated. Now let's keep our fingers crossed on the TV Guide program info to show up.

I got it at the sony outlet near to everett. I was told it was the last one... it was actually a return. But for me it is working just fine. Seems most of the problem could be fix by having the unit w/UPS and "forcing the host channel"... now I must look for a new wife... LOL :)

Maybe you just need to BUY two more so your WIFE can have two.

I have 5 DVRs [GRIN]!

Probably a dumb question...
I really, really love this Sony 250 that i got. I would really, really love being able to hack it so that an additional tuner could be installed. Has there been nobody who has tried this and succeeded? Going from a Comcast DVR (dual tuner) to a single is tough, but this unit rocks!

I got it at the sony outlet near to everett. I was told it was the last one... it was actually a return. But for me it is working just fine. Seems most of the problem could be fix by having the unit w/UPS and "forcing the host channel"... now I must look for a new wife... LOL :)
How much did you pay?

Anyone know if theres a Sony outlet in Phoenix?

Probably a dumb question...
I really, really love this Sony 250 that i got. I would really, really love being able to hack it so that an additional tuner could be installed. Has there been nobody who has tried this and succeeded? Going from a Comcast DVR (dual tuner) to a single is tough, but this unit rocks!
Well isn't there already 2 tuners in the units, an OTA tuner and a cable/QAM tuner? The question should be is there a way to record from both at the same time? I don't think there is.

Well isn't there already 2 tuners in the units, an OTA tuner and a cable/QAM tuner? The question should be is there a way to record from both at the same time? I don't think there is.

Yep...that's the real question.

Yep...that's the real question.

Easy to get two tuners, just get a second unit, or get four more and have five tuners.

Ray

I wonder if Sony stopped selling the HDDs because of potential law suit from TIVO for patent infringement?

I wonder if Sony stopped selling the HDDs because of potential law suit from TIVO for patent infringement?

That is MY GUESS - but it has no basis in fact. I just THOUGHT the same reason.

On the other side of the coin - all the Cable Companies and Satellite Companies
who offer their own box would face the same problem???? I think!

If the unit is uplugged or experiences a power outage, how long (if at all) will it maintain the clock, TVGOS info, and any scheduled recording settings?

Dave

If the unit is uplugged or experiences a power outage, how long (if at all) will it maintain the clock, TVGOS info, and any scheduled recording settings?

Dave

Weeks ago - I would have said EVERYTHING is lost.

I have all of my on a UPS.

However, others on this board have said they don't loose anything.

It might be a function of which version of OS is in your box. As an
engineer - I would have written the TVGOS to disk so nothing is
lost during a power outgage - but then I am not a SONY Engineer.

Anyone know if theres a Sony outlet in Phoenix?

Sony Outlet Stores Locations (http://www.minidisc.org/sony_outlets.html)

I got it at the sony outlet near to everett. I was told it was the last one... it was actually a return. But for me it is working just fine. Seems most of the problem could be fix by having the unit w/UPS and "forcing the host channel"... now I must look for a new wife... LOL :)


d13go, when you forced the host channel, did you have existing recordings and schedules and were they retained after the 'force' ?

Thanks.

Sony Outlet Stores Locations (http://www.minidisc.org/sony_outlets.html)

That list is out of date. The store in Gaffney SC closed a couple of years ago.

I just got my 500 back from sony for the 161-6 error and firmware update and now I cant get listings for 2 days now. I just did a restore factory default and now my clock will not set. Under listings it says there is no data for this screen. I live in Yonkers NY Cablevision with cablecard. Has anyone had a problem with tvgos and cablevision lately?

That list is out of date. The store in Gaffney SC closed a couple of years ago.
The official list of Sony Outlet stores is not that hard to find: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_ViewStatic-Start?page=static%2fsony_outlet%2flocations%2eisml.
Rehoboth Beach, DE? That is really on the way to a lot of places...

Do you need a card for unencrypted QAM?

The official list of Sony Outlet stores is not that hard to find: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_ViewStatic-Start?page=static%2fsony_outlet%2flocations%2eisml.
Rehoboth Beach, DE? That is really on the way to a lot of places...

Thanks for that URL - It was Handy.

Do you need a card for unencrypted QAM? Not unless your tuner is, for some reason, not able to pick up all the unencrypted channels that are normally made available by your cable company.

There can be variances between some tuner models, but (probably) the majority should have no problem.

Yep...that's the real question.The real question (to me) is, when is someone going to create a drop in a larger hard-drive hack?

CableCARD info for interested folks in Chicago:

Card firmware version 4.21 is available in the near downtown area. The new card was installed in my HDD500 today, and (I hope) will solve the premium channel "recording not permitted by service provider" problem.

Wow, that took a while :). If you have 4.05 then it will not take the update. You either need to a card with older firmware or get a card with 4.21 preinstalled.

I bought my HDD500 about 9 months ago and LOVE it, it has worked perfect from day 1 with no problems at all. If I remember correctly my guide data loaded within 2/3 days from first start up, using cable with cablecard. My Build Date is 1.2.13

2 weeks ago I had a power outtage and lost my clock and guide. I searched the forum here and did a TV guide reset (exit button/tv guide button on front) this got my clock back to correct time but I still have no guide listings, I have left it off for 4 days straight and still no guide data. The weird thing is all my channels are correct on my HDD500, all channels mapped over just like I had before just don't have any guide listings.

My cable is Comcast in Sunrise,FL they use Ch 18 as the TV guide channel to download listings, I checked the HDD500 to see what my host channel is set up for using...Guide-Setup-down-753159852 then right, it says my host channel is 97. Comcast doesn't even use Ch 97 at all.

So I Forced the Host to Ch18 using the directions here on the board and when I check the HDD500 the next day it still says my host is Ch 97. So I did the TV Guide Reset again, clock still correct, did the force host again to Ch18 left it off overnight, next day still says host is Ch 97. I'm assuming I will never get listings since the machine thinks my host is Ch 97. Now I'm stuck.

I'm getting all my correct channels labeled with correct channel logos on my guide through the HDD500 I just have No guide listings.

Wht else can I try or do. I've run out of ideas and I really like this machine. Help.

Please Help


I don't have a concrete answer - I just wanted to make sure you have checked this webpage for all the options.

http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html

There are some service menu ideas there.

FYI - I have 5 SONY DVRs. I leanred the first week I owned the first one.

PUT THEM ON A UPS.

Hey thanks, yes Spiffspace is great that is where I learned all the right codes to use. I agree I will be looking for a UPS but this guide data stuff is killing me. If my clock is correct then it's getting the info from my comcast cable but after 4 days with the DVR off, still no guide listings but all my channels are correct. I' dont know what else to do.

I can manually record stuff but that's no fun. It's got to be something with the host channel but if my clock is right how can it not be getting the guide data and why is my host saying Ch 97 when Comcast in my area doesn't use Ch 97. Forcing the channel doesn't seem to help.

If it were mine I'd try going back to the Setup Menu, and re-setup where you choose your zip code etc. Maybe your machine somehow did not reset correctly.
Good luck.

gigaguy, Yes I actually thought about that, went there a couple days ago it has the correct zip code, I even re-entered it again just to confirm it to the system, left it overnight and still no guide. It's so frustrating cause I can scroll up and down through the whole guide on the Sony HD500 and all my channels are there with the correct logos just everything says no listings across the board. I'm begining to think I will never get my listings again.

Did you try to unplug the DVR for a few minutes to reset the whole machine?

I did the unplug thing....when I lost power about 2 weeks ago (power was off about 5-10 min) then when the power came back, I noticed my clock was --:-- let it stay on like that for a few hours...still no clock then later that same day I unplugged it and left it off for about 1/2 hour then plugged back in and it re-booted...left it for a few hours and still had no clock, so that is when I did the TV guide reset after that I got the clock back and all my channels showed up on the guide listings the next day but no guide data. Later I left it off for 4 days thinking it would fill some data but nothing. Then when I checked the host channel and it said Ch 97 I thought something has to be wrong cause Comcast isn't using Ch 97 but I've tried to force the host channel several times and it keeps defaulting back to Ch 97.

Thanks for all your responses so far. I'm not giving up. :)

Thanks for the link, I just ordered one. Does anyone know if the Sony RM-VL600 will work properly and be fully functional with the DHS-HDD250? I'm not a fan of the trackball thing on the Y823 and like the layout of the RM-VL600 better.

I bought the RM-VL600 today. It seems to be fully functional, although I had to program some strange buttons (using the learn function) to get the full functionality. For example, the "sleep" button is now my 30 second advance :p

What I did find strange is that the "dot" button wasn't programed by default with the Sony code and I had to have the remote learn that function.

It also seems to put out a "more powerful" IR signal than the OEM remote. I found a way (my TV / Remote problems a few weeks ago) to operate the OEM remote without adversely effecting my TV. I hold the remote close to the floor and bounce the IR off the carpet. It would go high enough to reach the DVR, but the TV couldn't see the remote. The universal "bounced" all the way up to the TV.

Since this is a learning remote with a stronger than normal IR beam, I tried it in my home theater. Had it learn my projector remote. With the OEM remote I can't bounce it off my screen and back to the projector, with the Sony remote, I can. So, while not being used in the living room, it will be put to work in the home theater where DHG-HDD250 #2 resides :D

As I recall, members of this thread have stated that cable uses channel 97 for the analog guide channel when it converters all other channels to digital. You can run a VBI test on that channel to see if it passes. Perhaps the station also had power loss and now is having problem with guide broadcast. Your recorder is locking on to channel 97 because it senses that it is the source of guide data. If Comcast is the source of your problem, you can probably solve it by hooking up a uhf antenna and disconnecting the cable for about 24 hours. If that works, the recorder will be locked onto channel 18 and you will have your guide data. Then you can reconnect the cable and be back to normal.

Ray

Ray1938, I tried to do a VBI test on Ch 97 yesterday but when I tune to that channel of course it says no signal and then when I try the VBI test by pressing the Menu button on the remote, the moment I press Menu it switches the channel to another broadcast channel. So in other words it won't stay on Ch 97 in order for me to perform the VBI test.

But what you are saying sounds right, if I am trying to force the host and it keep reverting back to CH 97 then 97 must really be my host channel since I have cable from Comcast.

The UHF sounds like a good option but I don't have a UHF antenna.
I have a feeling if I call Comcast to inquire about Ch 97 they will tell me they don't know what I am talking about.

Again thanks for all your help.

I have a feeling if I call Comcast to inquire about Ch 97 they will tell me they don't know what I am talking about.

Again thanks for all your help.

I have Comcast here - but then I am 1500 miles away in NH.

When I called Comcast about any TVGOS issues - they couldn't imagine how I was even able to get any TV Guide Service.

1) If Channel 97 does not exist on your cable system - you certainly can't get TVGOS.

2) Here in the Boston Area - The TVGOS data comes from the ANALOG PBS stations. They are usually the only ones who transmit it.

3) I'm pretty sure that is the case in your area as well.

4) The first time I lost my Guide data from a Power Failure - It accidently disabled the analog channel in my active channel list and therefore I had to manually make sure every analog channel was turned back on - not in the guide - but the Preferences

Hey all - about half of the visits to my site come from AVSForums, so I figured I would post this here...

I actually set up Google Analytics on the site recently, and I am amazed by the number of hits I get on some days (I have seen days with 100 hits). Maybe I should throw some Google Ads on there too! :p Just kidding.

Does anyone have any suggestions for additions to the FAQ? I feel like the info is getting stale (or at least that I haven't added much in a while other than the occasional zip code). To be perfectly honest, I haven't been using it as much because I bought a TiVo S3 about a month and a half ago. I love that TiVo, but it does cause me a few headaches too...

The Sony, actually, has been pretty solid lately. No guide issues at all (knock on wood) - it seems my local PBS station has solved the problems that they had been having with their equipment.

Thanks!

Please post suggestions here or on the contact page of the FAQ!

My HDD500 did something funny yesterday. The unit is working fine, but the display is stuck showing the red recording icon. Plus, the display no longer shows the channel/program...and I can't tell if it is powered on/off until I switch to the input on the TV. Has anyone seen this? I pulled the plug on the unit before I cane into work, and I will plug it back in when I get home. Hopefully the unit just got, "stuck on stupid" and a hard reboot will correct the problem.

Easy to get two tuners, just get a second unit, or get four more and have five tuners.

Ray

Awww...c'mon...that answer sucks!
I guess it's the only real answer out there though. :p

Anyone know how long our HDD warrantees are for ?
Mine is about 10 months old and it froze up for the first time last week.
When rebooted, playback on one recording was 'not glitch-free'.

Anyone know how long our HDD warrantees are for ?
Mine is about 10 months old and it froze up for the first time last week.
When rebooted, playback on one recording was 'not glitch-free'.

1 Year from SONY.

Wow, that took a while :). If you have 4.05 then it will not take the update. You either need to a card with older firmware or get a card with 4.21 preinstalled.

Yeah, the Midwest seems to get Comcast updates last. And then the suburbs get theirs before downtown Chicago. I'm always last!

It was a battle to find someone who did not say "Gee, I never heard of that so we must not have it". Finally, someone took the trouble to research the issue and showed up with a green card with 4.21.

Here's a host channel story with a new twist:

Installing the new 4.21 Moto card this week naturally reset my TVGOS. I assumed the HDD500 would once again find cable channel 94 (analog PBS) for the host. Instead, it found CBS analog 2 OTA, even though I have no antenna connected to the unit!

I once had an indoor antenna connected, but got rid of it long ago. The unit is still set as "cable and OTA" because I never changed it to "cable only". There is a weak snowy picture on that channel. The guide had downloaded properly each night so far. BTW, OTA 2 is NOT turned on in the channel + - list. But I did leave it on in the Guide, just in case.

Does anyone have any suggestions for additions to the FAQ?

How about a list of quirks or feature suggestions so that they are all in one spot, in the unlikely event that Sony releases further software updates or a similar product in the future?

Two suggested improvements to start with:


If the DVR is playing back a recorded program, there's no need to display a popup asking for permission to change the channel (since the user isn't watching the tuner output anyway) (Problem observed in firmware 1.02.05.)

If the DVR is playing back a recorded program, don't honor the auto-off feature until after the end of the recording is reached and the unit has sat idle for 30 seconds. (In firmware 1.02.05, the unit shuts off immediately at the scheduled time, interrupting playback.)

Here's a host channel story with a new twist:

Installing the new 4.21 Moto card this week naturally reset my TVGOS. I assumed the HDD500 would once again find cable channel 94 (analog PBS) for the host. Instead, it found CBS analog 2 OTA, even though I have no antenna connected to the unit!

I once had an indoor antenna connected, but got rid of it long ago. The unit is still set as "cable and OTA" because I never changed it to "cable only". There is a weak snowy picture on that channel. The guide had downloaded properly each night so far. BTW, OTA 2 is NOT turned on in the channel + - list. But I did leave it on in the Guide, just in case.

That's weird on various levels. From what I could tell, if you set it up for cable only or cable + OTA, it likes to use a cable host channel. And of course, the fact that you don't even have an antenna is wild. But, it does tell me that maybe I should try forcing OTA-2 (again) even though it's a weak signal.
I'm curious, if you go to the 753 screen, go right once, and up twice, does the "slicing" data show lots of drops or errors for TypeB or TypeC?


Mitch

How about a list of quirks or feature suggestions so that they are all in one spot, in the unlikely event that Sony releases further software updates or a similar product in the future?

Two suggested improvements to start with:


If the DVR is playing back a recorded program, there's no need to display a popup asking for permission to change the channel (since the user isn't watching the tuner output anyway) (Problem observed in firmware 1.02.05.)

If the DVR is playing back a recorded program, don't honor the auto-off feature until after the end of the recording is reached and the unit has sat idle for 30 seconds. (In firmware 1.02.05, the unit shuts off immediately at the scheduled time, interrupting playback.)


while these would be nice, it is doubtful that any suggestions will be heard by sony since these are discontinued and the line no longer exists.

Can some knowledgeable person on this forum please explain to me why the following is happening, because the technical support people at Cox can't explain and/or deny the possibility. I live in Fairfax, Virginia and have Cox as my provider. I have 2 Sony 500 DVRs both on cable, one with a cable card connected to a Sony DCR TV with a built in hidef tuner, also with a cable card . The other Sony 500 DVR is without a cable card connected to another Sony DCR TV with a hi-def tuner built in, but also without a cable card. When I turn on the closed captioning on the pair that have cable cards, I get the captioning on the high-def channels- NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC, ESPN, PBS etc. but on none of the standard definition counterparts with the exception of the local PBS channel (26), nor on any of the standard definition basic, expanded basic, or digital channels. On the other pair of identical equipment, which is without cable cards, connected directly to the cable, when I turn on captioning, I get captioning on all channels broadcasting captions plus local hi-def channels
that both pieces pick up through their built-in digital tuners ( mapped on different channels). Thanks.

I've had 2 HDD 500's since February. The only significant problems I had during this time has been with TVGOS. These problems have always resulted from my host channel and have been serious enough to cause some problems about three times. After the first of these occasions, I learned the name and extension of a very helpful engineer at my host channel. With his help the last two TVGOS glitches were resolved quickly and easily Although they require some close attention, these DVR's are by far the best TV recording device I've ever owned.

For the firs time, last night I encountered a real hardware problem with one 500. Although I resolved the problem with Sony tech support today, there may be a incipient future problem. I'll describe the problem below and would appreciate feedback if anyone else has had a similar experience.

After watching a recording, I pressed the Menu button. The screen froze with no picture for a minute or two while I pressed various buttons with no response. Next an on-screen message came up indicating there had been a "hard drive failure and all recording would be lost." After less than a minute the machine reset. At this point there was no guide data and no recordings, although it showed only about 20% space available on both drives. Because of the error message, I assumed the machine would have to go in for repair and I turned it off, but did not unplug.

In the morning it still showed no recording but had downloaded guide data for two channels. I called Sony tech support expecting to ship the 500 in for repair. The tech had me reset by unplugging for one minute. When it reset, I had the 1st day of guide data as the guide had been setup before the problem occurred and a picture and sound in the upper left hand corner of one channel. The screen, however, was frozen and didn't respond to commands from either the remote or on the 500 itself. The tech had me repeat the unplug/plug reset. This time I had seven day of original guide data and all my original recordings. It has performed normally since then.

Sorry for the very long post, but thought the experience was strange enough to justify describing the entire encounter here. - Any thoughts?

EDP

The Sony, actually, has been pretty solid lately. No guide issues at all (knock on wood) - it seems my local PBS station has solved the problems that they had been having with their equipment.


I knew I shouldn't have said that. My guide pooped out again. DANG IT! I said "knock on wood"!

I'm so bummed out, still no guide data but all my channels are correct. Still showing my host as Ch 97 and 97 is a blank screen with no data it's no wonder I'm not getting data. I've tried practically every Comcast cable ch to try and find the host and not one ch passes the VBI test. I cant even test the VBI for Ch 97 cause it's not even a Comcast cable Ch. argh!!!

At least my clock is still right.

I'm so bummed out, still no guide data but all my channels are correct. Still showing my host as Ch 97 and 97 is a blank screen with no data it's no wonder I'm not getting data. I've tried practically every Comcast cable ch to try and find the host and not one ch passes the VBI test. I cant even test the VBI for Ch 97 cause it's not even a Comcast cable Ch. argh!!!

At least my clock is still right.


If you can tune Ch 97, even if it's blank, you can do a VBI check.

If you can tune Ch 97, even if it's blank, you can do a VBI check.

Negative on that, when I tune to Ch 97 it says No Signal and when I press Menu to start the VBI process it changes the channel so it wont stay on 97.

That's weird on various levels. From what I could tell, if you set it up for cable only or cable + OTA, it likes to use a cable host channel. And of course, the fact that you don't even have an antenna is wild. But, it does tell me that maybe I should try forcing OTA-2 (again) even though it's a weak signal.
I'm curious, if you go to the 753 screen, go right once, and up twice, does the "slicing" data show lots of drops or errors for TypeB or TypeC?


Mitch

Which columns and lines specifically? Under the "host" column: line 3 "drops" is 131. "type C" line is 158. That's it.

Negative on that, when I tune to Ch 97 it says No Signal and when I press Menu to start the VBI process it changes the channel so it wont stay on 97.

Agreed - if you get "no signal" VBI test won't work.

Negative on that, when I tune to Ch 97 it says No Signal and when I press Menu to start the VBI process it changes the channel so it wont stay on 97.

Go buy an indoor UHF antenna. If it doesn't work, you can always return it.

Ray

Stingray, I also have two 500s and I had 2 or 3 250s before. These machines are basically computers. They sometimes need an unplug, it fixes lots of little glitches, kinda like clearing your temp folder for your browser, or a soft reformat.
I have never had a glitch so bad that I lost any recorded program or that rendered the machine unoperable or needing repair.

How about a list of quirks or feature suggestions so that they are all in one spot, in the unlikely event that Sony releases further software updates or a similar product in the future?

Two suggested improvements to start with:


If the DVR is playing back a recorded program, there's no need to display a popup asking for permission to change the channel (since the user isn't watching the tuner output anyway) (Problem observed in firmware 1.02.05.)

If the DVR is playing back a recorded program, don't honor the auto-off feature until after the end of the recording is reached and the unit has sat idle for 30 seconds. (In firmware 1.02.05, the unit shuts off immediately at the scheduled time, interrupting playback.)


Neither of these are really problems since you clear the messages with the remote. I have the same firmware and I get option to cancel the auto shutoff.

What I find to be an oversight in playback operation is that after playback ends you can't go back in time. Instead you have to fast forward from the beginning. I don't recall seeing this item posted on the thread.

My Comcast recorder isn't perfect either. It automatically shuts off after a recording ends even while I am playing back another recording.

Ray

Having a bit of a problem with my new hdd250 that is set up with it's own cable card (my KDF-E42A10 TV also has it's own card). The problem is when the card is inserted and the cable line up is selected I can view all channels through the DVR until the guide loads and then it will not display most of my channels (only can get 1-22, 94-99, 115, and the local HD channels in the 700's). I had the cable company come out and replace the Cablecard and to my surprise I could view all the channels that I am supposed to get through Cablecard on the DVR.......and that lasted for about 18 hours and then it went back to the same situation where I could only view/record channels 1-22, 94-99, 115, and the local HD channels in the 700's. The Cablecard on the TV works perfectly and I can view all the channels that I am supposed to get on it all of the time. My DVR has the 1.02.06 firmware and I am wondering if it is worth sending off to the service center for the firmware upgrade to 1.02.13. I have attempted a warm reboot and have also tried unseating the Cablecard and re-inserting but that does nothing. Anyone out there with any suggestions? Any help appreciated.

When playback ends you get a menu, can't you just left click on the ring to close that menu, push play which brings up the time line and you can rewind the current recorded program if you want.
Maybe I'm missing the point made.

Last night I decided to change the zip code on my guide to a neighboring zip code still in my vicinity, turned it on this morning and I still have no guide data and it loaded all the same channels in the guide as before, the only thing I noticed that was different was now it turned on all the channels I don't use in the guide such as Cinamax Showtime etc.. so changing the zip did do something different, maybe I should give it another night to see if my guide data poulates. I did do the host check this am and it still shows Ch 97 as my host. clock still correct.

I just bought a defective 250 and had it repaired by sony. It functions fine now, but it's so noisy! My question is, is it normal for them to make the same amount of noise whether they are turned on or turned off? Can't sit in the same room with it and read a book...

I just bought a defective 250 and had it repaired by sony. It functions fine now, but it's so noisy! My question is, is it normal for them to make the same amount of noise whether they are turned on or turned off? Can't sit in the same room with it and read a book...

Mine sounds the same whether it's "on" or "off". I believe that the hard drive runs continuously, and that is the source of the noise you hear.

Dave

Mine sounds the same whether it's "on" or "off". I believe that the hard drive runs continuously, and that is the source of the noise you hear.

Dave

I agree the disk runs continuously - but I would not call the noise disturbing in any away. My very first HD Set top box had a cooling fan that ran continuously and it was not disturbing either.

I would encourage any of you out there who want to pick up another unit, there are TWO people on ebay (one in San Diego one in Jackson, MS) offering 25 DHG-H250 each for sale at INCREDIBLE prices.

http://cgi.*********/NEW-Sony-DHG-HDD250-HD-DVR-Built-In-HDTV-Tuner-Recorder_W0QQitemZ270046555588QQihZ017QQcategoryZ11725QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.*********/NEW-Sony-DHG-HDD250-HD-DVR-Built-In-HDTV-Tuner-Recorder_W0QQitemZ130041722416QQihZ003QQcategoryZ61396QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I only wish I'd waited a few weeks before I got mine

I would encourage any of you out there who want to pick up another unit, there are TWO people on ebay (one in San Diego one in Jackson, MS) offering 25 DHG-H250 each for sale at INCREDIBLE prices.

http://cgi.*********/NEW-Sony-DHG-HDD250-HD-DVR-Built-In-HDTV-Tuner-Recorder_W0QQitemZ270046555588QQihZ017QQcategoryZ11725QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.*********/NEW-Sony-DHG-HDD250-HD-DVR-Built-In-HDTV-Tuner-Recorder_W0QQitemZ130041722416QQihZ003QQcategoryZ61396QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I only wish I'd waited a few weeks before I got mine

The price of the first one doesn't seem all that impressive. The second one is better though. The links don't work, but if you replace the ******** with ********* they do work.

You may think that they are INCREDIBLE prices but a lot of us paid way less than that for our DHG-HDD500 models.

Also, we STILL don't know what the future of these boxes are when NTSC broadcasts are shut off in 28 months. I have tried repeatly to get information from Sony if these boxes can get a software update that will allow them to get their guide data once NTSC is shut down. I have had no luck which tells me that we may have expensive paperweights in 2009. Maybe not completly disfunctional (we still can use manual timers) but not nearly as functional as they are now.

The links don't work, but if you replace the ******** with ********* they do work.

The powers that be are filtering the links out. If you go to THAT place and search for "Sony DHG" you will find them and a few others that are, for most of them, vastly overpriced.

Stingray, I also have two 500s and I had 2 or 3 250s before. These machines are basically computers. They sometimes need an unplug, it fixes lots of little glitches, kinda like clearing your temp folder for your browser, or a soft reformat.
I have never had a glitch so bad that I lost any recorded program or that rendered the machine unoperable or needing repair.


Thanks for the feedback, gigaguy.

The powers that be are filtering the links out. If you go to THAT place and search for "Sony DHG" you will find them and a few others that are, for most of them, vastly overpriced.
And what do you think that these units should have cost when they first came out? How about now? And why?
Cost is relative. What does it cost per year for cable with their equipment? Plus the additional for HD service. Even if these units cost $1200.00, they are still a better deal than that of cable or dish. I think at the very least you pay $500-$600.00 a year with cable or dish. That means that you have paid for the unit in under two and a half years.
As far as what the future holds for the TVGOS and these machines is anyones guess. As long as the clock works and manual recording is possible, then it still is a good machine. Sound, picture. time slip, etc... I think though, the TVGOS service will somehow adjust how it is sent out so all these old machines will not become obsolete overnight.
Panasonic has a new unit with Blu-Ray due out in Japan later this year and it may become available here thereafter. Its price is around $2000-$2500.00. That is not a lot when you factor in the Blu-Ray and number of tuners and ability to record and watch, plus to archive your shows. Here is a link to it:http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=18140
Michael

You may think that they are INCREDIBLE prices but a lot of us paid way less than that for our DHG-HDD500 models.

Also, we STILL don't know what the future of these boxes are when NTSC broadcasts are shut off in 28 months. I have tried repeatly to get information from Sony if these boxes can get a software update that will allow them to get their guide data once NTSC is shut down. I have had no luck which tells me that we may have expensive paperweights in 2009. Maybe not completly disfunctional (we still can use manual timers) but not nearly as functional as they are now.

I would think that there is a way to get a time stamp from the ATSC side of the box. While I'm learning the TVGOS system (still not totally populated), I programmed all of my stuff via the classic "time&channel". TVGOS looks interesting, but I'm not far along total understanding yet.

I was unhappy there was no manual clockset-I'm trusting (you fool !) them to have put something to read a time stamp from digital.

If the Unit can't get time, is the only solution the inner menu reset to 12:00 ?

Also, we STILL don't know what the future of these boxes are when NTSC broadcasts are shut off in 28 months.

I'd expect that date to be put off for a while. Right now, the broadcasters have the most valuable radio frequencies in the world, and have just been given a new one at UHF.

I'd not expect them to want to give up the old channel just yet. Since we all understand the intersection of money, government and broadcasters, I'm sure that there will be at least one more extension.

There will be news stories about this, mostly focusing on those unable to make a switch........and a last minute dead of night extension attached to some other "must pass" bill.

If the Unit can't get time, is the only solution the inner menu reset to 12:00 ?
I thought the only way to reset the clock to 12:00am was to unplug the unit.

Where is the menu option?

I'd not expect them to want to give up the old channel just yet.
Do you think *any* stations will voluntarily shut off their old analog channels before the mandated deadline?

I think we all have forgotten that there will be converters available for free to people who can not afford to go out and buy the new HD sets and only have the old analog tvs and vcrs. There are millions of old tvs,vcrs,etc.., that are not going to be suddenly useless.
So if these converters are going to be available, then I could see that the existing TVGOS could be passed via the digital to analog converters. I for one will not worry over this what if.
Michael

I have a DHG-HDD500 of which I have had no problems with. Why? Because it is still in carton and never opened since purchased in March. No not from Tweeters! Thus cost me nearly three times as much! The reason I bought was due to my Hitachi 42HDS52A plasma I bought at the same time could not timer record DVDs with Cable Card unless TV on. I use CC due to poor SD PQ on Comcast STB. Thus, I have been timer recording DVDs on another DVD recorder connected to my other, non HD, TV with STB for these many months. Last night when watching a movie on Plasma and recording a DVD at the same time I discovered although plasma must be on when recording ---------- when DVD recorder is timer set and off plasma receives no signal from input so power saving feature turns off power. But, to my exhilaration when DVD recorder turns on for unattended timer recording plasma comes back on and holds volume mute and stretched aspect settings during recording (to avoid IR etc) yet recording is as broadcast in proper aspect and audio. Thus, I have no need for never used DHG-HDD500 still in carton and never opened. To adhere to this site's rules –is there any way I can offer this unit for sale to somebody who might wish?

Thanks,

slannes

Has anyone had a problem with tvgos and cablevision lately?

I live in Santa Cruz, CA so if any interested in live nearby would save on shipping hassle.

slannes

Well I just did a Reset User Configuration and then I did a TV Guide Reset to Factory Default, clock is blank, no host ch so I will see what happens in the morning. I hated to lose the clock but I'm getting desperate since I dont want to spend the money for an outside antenna, I'm already paying too much for cable as it is. Spoke to Comcast and they have no clue about Ch 97 told me to contact Sony.

Do you need a card for unencrypted QAM?

Looks like it will not see any Digital QAM channels without a CableCard,
unlike my DViCO Fusion Tuner that can see the channels..

Looks like it will not see any Digital QAM channels without a CableCard,
unlike my DViCO Fusion Tuner that can see the channels..

That's strange because if your cable company is passing along the QAM unencrypted
channels in the clear, the Sony should pick them up when you do an add scan of digital channels.

Just picked up the 250. Unencrypted QAM does tune. I will see if any guide data shows up and post the results.

Spoke to Comcast and they have no clue about Ch 97 told me to contact Sony.

And WHY NOT contact Sony.

I did - they are very helpful and have a few tricks up their sleeves.

The powers that be are filtering the links out. If you go to THAT place and search for "Sony DHG" you will find them and a few others that are, for most of them, vastly overpriced.


Well I've been following these machines for weeks on ebay and the 250s were all going for 500, 600, etc. I don't know where you guys got yours for very low prices but in the New York metro area Best Buy sold em all, nobody else carries them (unless you go to CircuitCity in which case they are being used to demo Sony's SXRD LCD television, so I guess they're not for sale). Let's face it. These things are better than sliced bread. Great tuner, decent disk space, ATSC, NTSC tuner, TV guide and best of all pure unadulterated OTA TDV signals, not the downrezzed stuff everybodyon satellite and cable are bitching about and it's ALL FREE. I don't know why they yanked them but let's chalk it up to Sony not being able to determine what the consumer wants.

Well I've been following these machines for weeks on ebay and the 250s were all going for 500, 600, etc. I don't know where you guys got yours for very low prices but in the New York metro area Best Buy sold em all, nobody else carries them (unless you go to CircuitCity in which case they are being used to demo Sony's SXRD LCD television, so I guess they're not for sale). Let's face it. These things are better than sliced bread. Great tuner, decent disk space, ATSC, NTSC tuner, TV guide and best of all pure unadulterated OTA TDV signals, not the downrezzed stuff everybodyon satellite and cable are bitching about and it's ALL FREE. I don't know why they yanked them but let's chalk it up to Sony not being able to determine what the consumer wants.

As they get rarer and rarer the price keeps going up on eBay.

And WHY NOT contact Sony.

I did - they are very helpful and have a few tricks up their sleeves.


Yeah I contacted Sony when I first had the problem, they were very helpful and even created a ticket # for me to call back so I still have that and will call them if this last attempt doesnt work. Basically what they told me was to just leave the machine turned off for 3 full days because it takes a long time for the guide to populate so I did that and then didn't work. Thought I could try and fix this myself but doesn't seem so easy. I will tell you during the 8/9 months that this machine worked it worked perfect never had a problem with guide it was a joy to use and recorded perfectly. I just want to get it back like it use to be. :(

I will tell you during the 8/9 months that this machine worked it worked perfect never had a problem with guide it was a joy to use and recorded perfectly. I just want to get it back like it use to be. :(

Most of these guide problems we read about on this thread have nothing to do with SONY. The guys from the Chicago area have been without guide data for a very long time. I think his name is Mitch - if you read through the thread. I do not know if it was ever fixed - but it was his local cable company in combination with bad TV GUIDE broadcast equipment - I BELIEVE.

Most of these guide problems we read about on this thread have nothing to do with SONY. The guys from the Chicago area have been without guide data for a very long time. I think his name is Mitch - if you read through the thread. I do not know if it was ever fixed - but it was his local cable company in combination with bad TV GUIDE broadcast equipment - I BELIEVE.

Not fixed yet. :(
But, I've been semi-lucky using OTA-11 for a week or so now.

It appears to be a problem in the cable network and TVGOS is currently working on it.

And, I agree, it's not the Sony that appears to ever be the problem. It's the distribution system.


Mitch

Looks like it will not see any Digital QAM channels without a CableCard,
unlike my DViCO Fusion Tuner that can see the channels..


Umm . . .

I'm seeing a number of unencrypted digital channels on my HDD500. I don't have a CableCard.

Looks like it will not see any Digital QAM channels without a CableCard,
unlike my DViCO Fusion Tuner that can see the channels..

Correction: It does pick up the Unencoded QAM Channels, I
screwed up the way I connected it :) Now It found 72 QAM Channels !!

I Compaired it to the DViCO Fusion Tuner, and it just as good !!

Not fixed yet. :(
But, I've been semi-lucky using OTA-11 for a week or so now.

It appears to be a problem in the cable network and TVGOS is currently working on it.
And, I agree, it's not the Sony that appears to ever be the problem. It's the distribution system.
Mitch

Yeah it seems you and I are in the same boat. It's no wonder the cable co's don't care it doesn't benefit them. They just want you to use their equipment not Sony's. So there in no rush to help fix it. I guess good things always come to and end.

You know I am begining to believe it IS Comcast or TV Guide or both, cause as I type this I just checked my Sony and after 4 hours of having it off since doing the reset config and resetting of the tv guide to factory default, I now have the correct time showing once again so it was --:-- for 4 hours and now I have correct time displayed. So the Sony seems to be doing what it is suppose to be doing and working correctly, it's just not getting the tv guide data, Still I'm not going to turn it on till tomorrow morning and see what I have. God I pray this works, please let it work.

Yeah it seems you and I are in the same boat. It's no wonder the cable co's don't care it doesn't benefit them. They just want you to use their equipment not Sony's. So there in no rush to help fix it. I guess good things always come to and end.

You know I am begining to believe it IS Comcast or TV Guide or both, cause as I type this I just checked my Sony and after 4 hours of having it off since doing the reset config and resetting of the tv guide to factory default, I now have the correct time showing once again so it was --:-- for 4 hours and now I have correct time displayed. So the Sony seems to be doing what it is suppose to be doing and working correctly, it's just not getting the tv guide data, Still I'm not going to turn it on till tomorrow morning and see what I have. God I pray this works, please let it work.

I'm glad you and Mitch hooked up. He knows who to call to try and get some help.

GOOD LUCK GUYS.

There is a company -- 2nd Turn Electronics -- selling gobs of Sony HDD250/500s on eBay. Search for "Sony Cablecard".

Here is my experience. I won an HDD250 listed as "tested", "appears to be in good working order", and "no remote"

I received a unit that appears to have been dropped. It is seriously dented on the bottom; plus small compression dents, top rear. The front power button does not work, and the front panel display does not work (completely dark). The buttons and joystick on the front right work.

It *does* work using a remote.

I wrote to 2nd Turn Electronics describing how the product I received did not match the description. I asked that they have someone carefully check their stock to find a unit that matches their eBay description and exchange it for the HDD250 I received.

They responded they would send me a return tag and give me a refund -- minus the $25 shipping. Since that reply I have written them four times to explain that I wanted an exchange. They have simply stopped responding.

I believe these guys will say anything to make a sale. If a customer is not happy, it costs them nothing except maybe $10 return shipping. They can then sell it again until someone keeps it.

Beware.

I agree with Mitch for sure. It's almost always not the fault of the Sony when the guide isn't working. I had a touch of the no guide syndrome a little while back. Ended up being my antenna not being able to pick up the data (read: broken elements) from the host I had been getting it from. After a new roof top antenna it locked onto another PBS station and all has been well since. I absolutely love my 250 when everything is working correctly. I absolutely hate it when it isn't. All you folks who are having problems with the guide, I feel your pain.

Well...I tuned it on this morning and it told me my DVR found several matches within my zip area and to pick the one I live in, so instead of picking my area I picked a neighboring one thinking maybe the TV Guide might be working their instead of my own, after that it can see it has populated all the correct channels that I get, clock is still correct, the guide still says no listings for programing but I am going to keep it off for another 24 hours and see if I have guide data tomorrow. Will check back then. Wish me luck. :rolleyes:

I tell ya I'm a dedicated Sony man.

Well...I tuned it on this morning and it told me my DVR found several matches within my zip area and to pick the one I live in, so instead of picking my area I picked a neighboring one thinking maybe the TV Guide might be working their instead of my own, after that it can see it has populated all the correct channels that I get, clock is still correct, the guide still says no listings for programing but I am going to keep it off for another 24 hours and see if I have guide data tomorrow. Will check back then. Wish me luck. :rolleyes:

I tell ya I'm a dedicated Sony man.

If it STILL selects the same PBS station for guide data - you might end up with the same results - but I know someone in Georga did that and it fixed his problem - thereby validating his local pbs station had bad guide data.

Looks like the underlying theme of most DHH250/500 trouble is TVGOS data (or the lack thereof). I live almost exactly between Orlando and Tampa with very good signal strength from OTA broadcasts from both areas. However, if I use my local zip code in setup, which happens to point the machine to channel 16 in Tampa, I get sqwat. If I use a zip code for a town about 3 miles east of me, I get TVGOS data from channel 24 in Orlando. Since the system setup scanned and registered channels from both Tampa and Orlando, my TV Guide provides program info on all of them (e.g., NBC out of Tampa and ORlando, etc.). I don't know why or how this works but I'll take it...

I realize many of you are in OTA areas where you are stuck with only one TVGOS host but some of you may be able to do what I did. You might try pulling up TV guide listings on-line and change the zip code or metro area to a neighboring city. If the guide lists channels you are receiving, insert the zip code in your HDD250/500 and see what happens. THis is a simple alternative to manual TVGOS assignment. Again, not everyone will have this luxury but it may be worth a try.

I just did ta G* factory test and I am recieving alot of bad vbi packets compaired to good packets, about 10 good to 100 bad on average,my clock wont reset and I have no listings for about 5 days now after getting my unit back from sony. Does anyone have any suggestions please?

Looks like the underlying theme of most DHH250/500 trouble is TVGOS data (or the lack thereof).

I do not believe there has been a single case of a TVGOS problem on this thread that was NOT TVGOS.

After all the HDD is just a computer that receives data. If it can't receive it or the data is WRONG or Corrupted - guess what happens - NO TVGOS.

Thanks Lyca, that is good info to know and sounds logical.

drhankz, I agree, so many have faulted the Sony DVR when I am believing it's what goes in or doesn't go in that gives the result, sorta like input/output what goes in in what goes out. If the Sony is not getting the info or the info is incorrect it can't give you the output. It's got to get the correct signal with the guide data. I've not had any problem with mine except for this guide data.

I have a question about the operation of the HDD250/500.

I have my TV set up so that I can use it's internal speakers (easy for the WAF) or use the TV's optical output to my receiver for the best 7.1 sound. I have my HDD500's analog outputs connected to my TV (again easy for the WAF) and I have the optical output connected to my receiver for 7.1 sound.

I've noticed the following phenomenon:

I set the TV set to use it's own internal ATSC tuner and the internal speakers on the TV.
I tune the HDD500 to the same channel, and the receiver to play the sound from the HDD500.
All of the sound I hear (TV speakers and receiver) is in sync.

Then -

I press "rewind" briefly then "play" on the HDD500.
Naturally, the sound is then out of sync.

But -

Then it seems that no matter what I do with the HDD500 (short of turning it off and back on again) the sound won't get back in sync.
I guess I thought the "next" button was supposed to get the HDD500 back to real time.

What am I doing wrong?

Greeting, I've searched this forum but have not find the answer so thought to ask via this post.

I purchased a refurbishbed DHG-HDD250 device yesterday. I plugged it in last night and the guide has not showed up yet, which is fine because from what I've read it could take upto 24hrs (or more)

My main question is that I'm not picking up any of the digital channels. I have another STB box (LG) which I'm replacing with this Sony. It consistently picks up close to 20 digital channels, using the same exact antenna. Does the Sony have an inferior tuner ?

I recall reading in one of the links that the unit downloads info throughout the day, is the channel line-up is one of those downloadables ?

While changing channels, often I hear a 'popping' sound from the speakers. I also read that the 'clicking' noice is normal, which I can hear when the device swiches from a cable in versus the antenna in but the popping does not sound normal.

Has anyone else experienced this noise issue ?

any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
-Jay

Greeting, .

I purchased a refurbishbed DHG-HDD250 device yesterday. I plugged it in last night and the guide has not showed up yet, which is fine because from what I've read it could take upto 24hrs (or more)Thank you.
-Jay

Since your unit is refurbished - you really do not know what state the various settings are in.

Make sure you GO THROUGH all the Initial setup instructions as outline in the manual. There are 100 different reasons for what you are seeing or not seeing.

The popping sounds like an exaggeration. There is a CLICKING noise - a small relay that switches between OTA and Cable.

I set the TV set to use it's own internal ATSC tuner and the internal speakers on the TV.
I tune the HDD500 to the same channel, and the receiver to play the sound from the HDD500.
All of the sound I hear (TV speakers and receiver) is in sync.

<snip>

Then it seems that no matter what I do with the HDD500 (short of turning it off and back on again) the sound won't get back in sync.
I guess I thought the "next" button was supposed to get the HDD500 back to real time.

What am I doing wrong?I'm surprised that the sound was in sync in the first instance. I believe the output of the DHG is always delayed by a second or so, due to the buffering. I have observed this when I had a 2nd TV in the same room, tuned to the same channel. I've never found the DHG output to be 'real time'.

Greeting, I've searched this forum but have not find the answer so thought to ask via this post.

I purchased a refurbishbed DHG-HDD250 device yesterday. I plugged it in last night and the guide has not showed up yet, which is fine because from what I've read it could take upto 24hrs (or more)

My main question is that I'm not picking up any of the digital channels. I have another STB box (LG) which I'm replacing with this Sony. It consistently picks up close to 20 digital channels, using the same exact antenna. Does the Sony have an inferior tuner ?

I recall reading in one of the links that the unit downloads info throughout the day, is the channel line-up is one of those downloadables ?

While changing channels, often I hear a 'popping' sound from the speakers. I also read that the 'clicking' noice is normal, which I can hear when the device swiches from a cable in versus the antenna in but the popping does not sound normal.

Has anyone else experienced this noise issue ?

any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
-Jay

When you tell the unit to set up (scan) the channels it should set them all up, and you will see the progress bar on the screen for both analogue and digital. If your unit does not set up digital, then sounds like it is not working? You should also be able to direct dial a digital channel even without it set up; so try that too to confirm the unit is working (like 49-1; 39-1; 8-1 etc.)

Then it seems that no matter what I do with the HDD500 (short of turning it off and back on again) the sound won't get back in sync.
I guess I thought the "next" button was supposed to get the HDD500 back to real time.

It is the same way with my Westinghouse TV (had them in separate rooms and could hear them both). The sync came back when I changed channels (made the HDD250's buffer start over)

I wouldn't say that the Sony's tuner is inferior - I would more appropriately say that the LG's is superior to just about every other one out there - especially if it's the 4200a.

However, 20 channels with the LG, and none with the Sony can't possibly be right. Something's definitely not kosher.

Also, I experience that "popping" sound with my Accurian tuner - but I've never heard it with my Sony. From what I know, it often occurs when the station changes between a local and network feed.

Looks like the underlying theme of most DHH250/500 trouble is TVGOS data (or the lack thereof). I live almost exactly between Orlando and Tampa with very good signal strength from OTA broadcasts from both areas. However, if I use my local zip code in setup, which happens to point the machine to channel 16 in Tampa, I get sqwat. If I use a zip code for a town about 3 miles east of me, I get TVGOS data from channel 24 in Orlando. Since the system setup scanned and registered channels from both Tampa and Orlando, my TV Guide provides program info on all of them (e.g., NBC out of Tampa and ORlando, etc.). I don't know why or how this works but I'll take it...

I realize many of you are in OTA areas where you are stuck with only one TVGOS host but some of you may be able to do what I did. You might try pulling up TV guide listings on-line and change the zip code or metro area to a neighboring city. If the guide lists channels you are receiving, insert the zip code in your HDD250/500 and see what happens. THis is a simple alternative to manual TVGOS assignment. Again, not everyone will have this luxury but it may be worth a try. I can also do this, as I'm about midway between Chicago and Rockford, IL, if I want to get the info for the Rockford channels. Only thing is, I lose a few of the lower-powered Chicago channels in the guide that way.

I do not believe there has been a single case of a TVGOS problem on this thread that was NOT TVGOS.

After all the HDD is just a computer that receives data. If it can't receive it or the data is WRONG or Corrupted - guess what happens - NO TVGOS.Except for me. It was self-caused. It's been working perfectly since I figured this out (thank God :rolleyes: ).

Except for me. It was self-caused. It's been working perfectly since I figured this out (thank God :rolleyes: ).

I hope your SELF-CAUSED experience is documented here so others can LEARN from you.

I'm surprised that the sound was in sync in the first instance. I believe the output of the DHG is always delayed by a second or so, due to the buffering. I have observed this when I had a 2nd TV in the same room, tuned to the same channel. I've never found the DHG output to be 'real time'.

It is the same way with my Westinghouse TV (had them in separate rooms and could hear them both). The sync came back when I changed channels (made the HDD250's buffer start over)


Cosmic and Sivartk -

It was definitely in sync initially. After I would rewind or pause however, it would get out of sync and I couldn't get it back. I had not tried the idea of changing channels to regain the sync. That may work for me. I'll need to try it.


Dave

Since your unit is refurbished - you really do not know what state the various settings are in.

Make sure you GO THROUGH all the Initial setup instructions as outline in the manual. There are 100 different reasons for what you are seeing or not seeing.

The popping sounds like an exaggeration. There is a CLICKING noise - a small relay that switches between OTA and Cable.


Thank you for your reply however, I assure you the 'popping' sound is not anexaggeration. I do hear the relay switching from 'antenna' and 'cable' inputs. This is a clear popping sound which is audible from the TV speakers.

After I plugged in the unit, as described in the color foldout, I went through the entire process where I type in my zipcode etc, and select if its an over the air antenna versus a cable and all. When the scan is complete (By the way, its amazing how LONG this scan takes) I see all the analog channels. This time, when I ran the scan, I picked up 4 (.1) channels. None of these (.1) channels are any of the network (cbs,abc,nbc) which I clearly picked up with the previous STB.

Regards,
Jay

Thank you for your reply however, I assure you the 'popping' sound is not anexaggeration. Regards,
Jay

Well then POPPING is not suppose to happen.

I think it is time to make a Call to Sony Tech Support.

This is a clear popping sound which is audible from the TV speakers. Regards, Jay

I may be in left field here but I experienced 'popping' sounds on my HDTV just after I got it. I didn't have the DVR yet. The popping I experienced was a result of poor, irradic signals on the offending channels. I also experienced the 'digital' break-up and eventual screen on other channels as well. Signal strength on the 'popping' channels would swing wildly (and quickly from none to 30%-40% then back to 0. This problem went away after adjusting my OTA antenna. This may not be your problem if you experience popping on all channels and your signal strength is good AND steady.

Regards.

Well then POPPING is not suppose to happen.

I think it is time to make a Call to Sony Tech Support.


Yes Indeed. I shall do that in the AM. Any advice in regards to accessing the digital (HD)channels ? I've done scans of available HD channels with both my devices (LG and Sony). Here's what I've found...

On the LG device, the signal strength of the HD channel received, it appears right below 50% of the signal strength scale, yet it displays the picture fine. On the Sony device, I managed to get ONE digital channel, an obscure UHF channel, which shows a 66% strength, which considers it to be below normal. I think that is why I'm not getting any digital signals. With the LG device, it appears I'm on the 'border' but Sony's 'border' line is at a higher percentage, so it appears to be the case.

Based on that I think the sensitivity of the LG device is far better in comparing to the Sony, which is disappointing. The coming weekend, I plan to get the ladder out a try to raise the height of my antenna by a foot or two so see if I can improve the signal strength.

Any advice if a signal booster with the antenna be of any help ? Any other advice regarding this is definitely appreciated.

Oh, The TVGuide finally showed up about an hour ago

Regards,
Jay

I may be in left field here but I experienced 'popping' sounds on my HDTV just after I got it. I didn't have the DVR yet. The popping I experienced was a result of poor, irradic signals on the offending channels. I also experienced the 'digital' break-up and eventual screen on other channels as well. Signal strength on the 'popping' channels would swing wildly (and quickly from none to 30%-40% then back to 0. This problem went away after adjusting my OTA antenna. This may not be your problem if you experience popping on all channels and your signal strength is good AND steady.

Regards.


Lyca - Thanks for your feedback. I think you may have something here. In my previous post I posted the signal strengths seen with the Sony Device. They are not as strong which could be attributing to the 'popping' sounds heard. As I mentioned in my previous post, this coming weekend, I will raise the antenna about a foot or two. I have an antenna rotor, which hasn't helped in this case. Perhaps, gaining elevation might be of some good. I'm optimistic and look forward to trying that. (now only if I had the day off tomorrow :D )

Regards,
Jay

Just an update on my situation, in case it's of interest to anyone. For most of the month of Sept., I was no longer getting TVGOS updates on a regular basis. I'd get listings for maybe a couple of days a week. Often, the listings grid would disappear and I'd get a message that the listings were being "rebuilt" and would return in 24 hours. After spending a couple of hours over a few different calls with Sony tech support, they got through to Gemstar about the problem. The problem cleared up finally and now I'm back to getting listings nearly every day (there have still been 2 or 3 isolated days this month with no listings). Sony called and left a message saying that it appeared that the problem was with my cable company, Comcast. I tried calling back to find out more about the specifics of what was causing the problem but, thanks to the crazy way that Sony tech support is organized, I couldn't actually get in touch with the person who had helped me before and left the message. Anyway, if you're having problems with TVGOS and you receive your host station signal via cable rather than antenna, keep in mind that the problem might be with your cable company rather than the host station.

Well I've been following these machines for weeks on ebay and the 250s were all going for 500, 600, etc. I don't know where you guys got yours for very low prices but in the New York metro area Best Buy sold em all, nobody else carries them (unless you go to CircuitCity in which case they are being used to demo Sony's SXRD LCD television, so I guess they're not for sale). Let's face it. These things are better than sliced bread. Great tuner, decent disk space, ATSC, NTSC tuner, TV guide and best of all pure unadulterated OTA TDV signals, not the downrezzed stuff everybodyon satellite and cable are bitching about and it's ALL FREE. I don't know why they yanked them but let's chalk it up to Sony not being able to determine what the consumer wants.

there might still be a few at the Woodbury Commons Sony Outlet in Woodbury NY (about a two hour drive for you if LI Traffic is OK). Call ahead.

there might still be a few at the Woodbury Commons Sony Outlet in Woodbury NY (about a two hour drive for you if LI Traffic is OK). Call ahead.

You know I thought of that but I figured. NAAAAHHHH. They wouldn't have any. So I got one on ebay. New, in the box, bill of sale, all good. Good thought though. Great minds think alike

There is a company -- 2nd Turn Electronics -- selling gobs of Sony HDD250/500s on eBay. Search for "Sony Cablecard".

Here is my experience. I won an HDD250 listed as "tested", "appears to be in good working order", and "no remote"

I received a unit that appears to have been dropped. It is seriously dented on the bottom; plus small compression dents, top rear. The front power button does not work, and the front panel display does not work (completely dark). The buttons and joystick on the front right work.

It *does* work using a remote.

I wrote to 2nd Turn Electronics describing how the product I received did not match the description. I asked that they have someone carefully check their stock to find a unit that matches their eBay description and exchange it for the HDD250 I received.



They responded they would send me a return tag and give me a refund -- minus the $25 shipping. Since that reply I have written them four times to explain that I wanted an exchange. They have simply stopped responding.

I believe these guys will say anything to make a sale. If a customer is not happy, it costs them nothing except maybe $10 return shipping. They can then sell it again until someone keeps it.

Beware.





I hope you open a dispute with Paypal AND Ebay.................Also, the units I saw were not from this guy. I do a search on DHG-HDD*. Never saw them using your search...

On the LG device, the signal strength of the HD channel received, it appears right below 50% of the signal strength scale, yet it displays the picture fine. On the Sony device, I managed to get ONE digital channel, an obscure UHF channel, which shows a 66% strength, which considers it to be below normal. I think that is why I'm not getting any digital signals. With the LG device, it appears I'm on the 'border' but Sony's 'border' line is at a higher percentage, so it appears to be the case.

Jay

When I first got an OTA HD Receiver - MANY YEARS AGO - the first thing I did was put up a REAL HD Antenna on the roof with a ROTOR. I'm about 60 miles away from the OTA HD stations in the Boston Area. I have an in-line signal amplifier right at the antenna. Then when the Signal wire gets into the house - It goes through a 1 to 4 splitter/amplifier, because I have (4) HD OTA Receivers in three different theaters. When I use the Sony System screen to view the signal strength - all the OTA HD Channels and the OTA Cable Channels [I HAVE BOTH] are ABOVE 85% in Signal Strength. All I can report is all my (5) Sony DVR's are HAPPY. Preparation is 90% of the battle.

Drhankz,
I agree with you totally on 'Preparation'. I have an Antennas Direct DB8 with a ChannelMaster CM-7777 amp that [now] works great... that is - after I flipped one side of the antenna backwards (the DB8 is actually two DB4s - i.e there are 8 bowties on a grid), adjusted the compass setting and fixed a loose coax connection (the real problem with my popping experience). I was in too much of a hurry to "turn the big screen on" and made mistakes installing the antenna. It's amazing how we overlook the simple things.

Regards.

I hope your SELF-CAUSED experience is documented here so others can LEARN from you.Sure is.

Way back in post # 6956.

How does your standard Def content look? I am very plkeased with the HD content over QAM. My SD Cable content especially over channel 40 looks terrible. I am using a high end QAM RF Amp and splitter. However my TV (which is the other end of the splitter from my DVR) looks great on those channels. The problem that I have is that the channels have noise, lines and the colors are all washed out. I think that if I could somehow calibrate the Sony DVR it would look better. Can you calibrate the standard Def out? I am using component out to my Sammy TV.

anyone know where to buy a power cord for one of these...I can't seem to find it on Sony's website. I bought one off ebay with a power cord that the seller didn't send and now won't respond. I borrowed a cord from a DVD player to test it out, but need a permanent fix.

anyone know where to buy a power cord for one of these...I can't seem to find it on Sony's website. I bought one off ebay with a power cord that the seller didn't send and now won't respond. I borrowed a cord from a DVD player to test it out, but need a permanent fix.

It is just an AC cord - no frills. Try an electric razer cord. That's what I use. A lot of old laptops (Toshibas) have a AC/DC brick and the cord that plugs into the wall should work. Try an electronics surplus store locally.

anyone know where to buy a power cord for one of these...I can't seem to find it on Sony's website. I bought one off ebay with a power cord that the seller didn't send and now won't respond. I borrowed a cord from a DVD player to test it out, but need a permanent fix.

When I got my open box HDD250 at Best Buy it did not have a power cord. The salesmen hunted around and finally took cord from another Sony product (I think it was a DVD player). I would think that if the cord plugs in it should work since there is no brick in the middle.

Same with me when I got my Sony RDR-HX900 DVR from Sears. The guy said, "Oh, we've got tons of loose ones of these laying around in back" and just went and found me one.

If you didn't buy your unit from a local store, just go to all the other nearby ones and ask. If they're familiar with you, they may just give it to you - if not, just offer them a few bucks.

Sure is.

Way back in post # 6956.

Oh I see said the blind man - you mean this thread [GRIN]!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8649457&&#post8649457

It is just an AC cord - no frills. Try an electric razer cord. That's what I use. A lot of old laptops (Toshibas) have a AC/DC brick and the cord that plugs into the wall should work. Try an electronics surplus store locally.

Thanks, will give that a try...right now I just borrowed a cord from a Panasonic DVD player that is headed to my grandmother...when I get a power cord :D

Will probably just look at radio shack or someplace for the "D" shaped cord....just ticks me off that the seller won't respond and paypal immediately denied my claim without as much as reviewing it. :mad:

For those looking for a power cord . . .

This should work and it is polarized like the original Sony cord -

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=914&sku=27399&engine=froogle

I too just got a refurbished HDD250 with no power cord. I have a spare power cord that fits, but it is unpolarized. The connector is symmetric across the middle, so if I flip the connector 180 degrees, it still fits. Does anyone know if this power cord is safe to use, or is it a better idea to go buy a polarized power cord? My intuition tells me that an unpolarized cord will work (and is safe), but I'm just not certain.

I too just got a refurbished HDD250 with no power cord. I have a spare power cord that fits, but it is unpolarized. The connector is symmetric across the middle, so if I flip the connector 180 degrees, it still fits. Does anyone know if this power cord is safe to use, or is it a better idea to go buy a polarized power cord? My intuition tells me that an unpolarized cord will work (and is safe), but I'm just not certain.

If you must use it, you could make sure that it is connected like the polarized plug is. I have a polarized cord here, and the square side of the polarized connector (DVR side) looks like it is wired to the larger blade of the male plug that goes in the outlet.

I too just got a refurbished HDD250 with no power cord. I have a spare power cord that fits, but it is unpolarized. The connector is symmetric across the middle, so if I flip the connector 180 degrees, it still fits. Does anyone know if this power cord is safe to use, or is it a better idea to go buy a polarized power cord? My intuition tells me that an unpolarized cord will work (and is safe), but I'm just not certain.

It is mainly an issue of how Sony wired up the power supply. If they did it right, it should not matter. However, if they did not do it right, it could make the case of the DVR "hot" so that there will be 120 VAC between the case and ground which is not safe. The DVR will still work. Do this, take a volt meter and plug the cord in one way, then check the voltage from the case to a ground on an outlet, then flip the cord around and try again. Whichever gives you less then that is the ticket. Most likely they will both be 0 volts.

Now, can somebody tell me if there is a way to calibrate the SD picture output?

anyone know where to buy a power cord for one of these...I can't seem to find it on Sony's website. I bought one off ebay with a power cord that the seller didn't send and now won't respond. I borrowed a cord from a DVD player to test it out, but need a permanent fix.
Looks like you've got your answer. I bought mine at Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=power%20cords&origkw=power%20cords) and the one I got is polarized, so they do have them there, I just can't remember which one (part number) I bought, sorry. Hope all of this helps.

Now, can somebody tell me if there is a way to calibrate the SD picture output?
No, I don't think there is a way to calibrate the SD output. From what you're describing above, it may just be a bad connection, as I had the same things happen to me too. I just changed my coax connector to a compression fitting and it looks good now. Also, try taking the amp out and see how it looks then, that might be the problem.

You may think that they are INCREDIBLE prices but a lot of us paid way less than that for our DHG-HDD500 models.

Also, we STILL don't know what the future of these boxes are when NTSC broadcasts are shut off in 28 months. I have tried repeatly to get information from Sony if these boxes can get a software update that will allow them to get their guide data once NTSC is shut down. I have had no luck which tells me that we may have expensive paperweights in 2009. Maybe not completly disfunctional (we still can use manual timers) but not nearly as functional as they are now.

I just got off the phone with G* I was told that these units will not work in 2009. Its a hardware issue not software. Now is the time to get sony to enable that usb port for networking or tvgos updates

I just got off the phone with G* I was told that these units will not work in 2009. Its a hardware issue not software. Now is the time to get sony to enable that usb port for networking or tvgos updates

All the more reason to buy a TiVo S3! (Actually there is a lot of speculation about TiVo's viability as a company now, so who knows....)

I figure the Sony will die before 2009 anyway.

Damn, I just won an auction for a 250 from these guys. I wish I would have saw your warning first. Now I see here that it's not going to work after 2009.

Assuming it actually works, back to the bay it may go.

:(

I hope you open a dispute with Paypal AND Ebay.................Also, the units I saw were not from this guy. I do a search on DHG-HDD*. Never saw them using your search...

sorry to keep pestering but I must ask. I have a splitter where one side goes to my TV and one side goes to my DHG-hdd250. The TV looks great on SD but the Sony looks like garbage once abot channel 40 on cable. Any ideas? I have an amp and a splitter - both are high end components with low noise figures.

I just got off the phone with G* I was told that these units will not work in 2009. Its a hardware issue not software. Now is the time to get sony to enable that usb port for networking or tvgos updates

That's 3 years or there abouts. If this thing lasts that long I'll be more than happy. Besides, maybe something bigger and better will be out by then. I simply refuse to buy TIVO and pay a big subscription just to record HD. I'll do without first. My basic DirecTV subscription is more than I want to pay. I think it's the biggest rip off in the world anyway. Think about it. You pay money in order to watch commercials just like OTA network TV. I might consider paying more if you could watch it commercial free.

It's got to the point to where everything is about the all mighty dollar. Before too much longer they're going to be charging us for the air we breath.

Please pardon my ignorance, but who or what is "G*" ??? :o :o :o

Is there a limit (like 9 maybe) to how many shows can be scheduled for future recording? :eek:

I've had shows "disappear" from the schedule overnight several times. It also seems that sometimes when I add a 10th scheduled show (to the top of the schedule) the last show at the bottom of the schedule disappears from the list. At first I thought I was imagining things, or thinking that I had scheduled something that I didn't. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Has this happened to anyone else? :o

I just got off the phone with G* I was told that these units will not work in 2009. Its a hardware issue not software. Now is the time to get sony to enable that usb port for networking or tvgos updates
Hi enyce9,

When you say that "these units will not work in 2009" do you mean just the TVGOS part or something else?

Lately, (past couple of months) I have not had much luck downloading the listings (probably due to poor reception) and so I have been doing my programming manually. All I really need is for the clock to continue to be set correctly as I can forgo TVGOS and not really miss it for scheduling my recordings.

My local OTA PBS station, KCET channel 28, is supplying my clock signal within the Los Angeles area. Now I know that OTA stations are supposed to "give back" their VHF channels back to the FCC but does this include UHF channels that are being used for analog transmission too? Anyone know the answer to this?

Cheers...

Concerning 2nd turn...I have bought 3 of them from them in the last month

1) complete in factory box -- arrived and looked like a refurb unit (everything still in plastic wrap, etc, still had stickers on the front)

2) Unit and power cord only -- arrived, had some tape residue, but no signs of abuse, 100% functional

3) Unit and power cord only -- arrived, great cosmetic shape, but no power cord. 100% functional

I have been begging them for the past 12 days for a power cord....all I get is "we're trying to locate it." With the number they sell, they could simply pull a power cord from a not yet listed auction and send it to me, but no, they continue to look. Plus, I hate the fact that they give retaliatory negatives, even if the buyer did no wrong. Still might leave a negative and take the hit.