Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread [Text View] - Page 31

AtlantisMichael

11-10-06, 10:09 AM

Wondering -
I disconnected my 500 to move it and when I resetup (less than a minute later) my clock was wrong. No biggie.
Anyway, just for fun I thought I'd do the 9012 and 753... menus. It shows my PBS cable channel as host, 1-09, but when I tune to it and do 9012 it fails the VBI test. Is this because I just unplugged it and the data flow is interrupted til it resets the clock? I use cablecard.

I disconnected my other 500 the other day and the correct time popped back up pretty quickly. I didn't do any menu or VBI checks. Both have been working fine with the cablecards I've had in about a month.
Just curious on the VBI test, it's always showed data moving before, but I never tested it with cablecards before.
Gigaguy,
Did you get your clock back? And is it working correctly now? I have unplug my units from time to time and always leave them off for at least 5 minutes in hopes to prevent any glitches. By the way, before you moved it, did you allow for the hard drive to spin down after you unplugged it?
Michael

Mitch G

11-10-06, 11:29 AM

Wow is having problem providing us CBS 2 with full data. I do not think that they would even consider providing, at no extra charge, what they feel is revenue generating channels.

Ye of little faith:

--- email response from WOW ---
Thank you for contacting Wow Internet and Cable and Phone.

WOW! will be removing the encryption from our broadcast High Definition (HD) channels in our HD lineup beginning on November 7, 2006.

These channels will no longer be encrypted and WOW! Cable customers with a television set that has a built-in HD tuner will be able to see these channels:

--- end of email ----

I did a rescan (on my TV) and found the channels (along with all the music channels :(). They are from 200 through 206. Although I'll probably still use OTA for most channels, having CBS-HD (which I never could get OTA) is nice.

Mitch

jay214128

11-10-06, 12:34 PM

was firmware version 1.xx.13 offered on new units or only done after they were already produced and sold?
I think the new units only had the .06 firmware in them. I picked up two DHG-HDD250s from the Sony outlet store a couple of weeks ago and was pleasantly surprised to find that they both had the .13 firmware in them. These were repackaged as refurbished units (not new). It looks like the refurbished units from the Sony outlet stores have been upgraded.

jay214128

11-10-06, 12:47 PM

Call me an optimist, but I tend to agree.

Like you say, there are A LOT of devices that depend on the service out there - more than I think most people are aware of. Earlier versions (called "Guide +", were included in many RCA & GE TV's, and countless RCA, Proscan, Sony & Panasonic (and probably some brands I'm forgetting) VCR's. The service goes back well over 10 years. I'm pretty sure there are at least tons of those TV's still being used, along with the countless DVD/DVR's sold in more recent years that depend on it.

Remember too, that most units with it, except for many of the newer ones with the 8th & 9th version of it, generate ad revenue for them (and the newer ones will most likely get around to it, too). So, they have that incentive working, too.
Time will tell. I'm in the camp that thinks these units will become doorstops when the analog stations are shut off. The critical item I see is that there will be no way to set the correct time (and date) in these boxes. All of the television devices (TVs, VCRs, DVRs, etc.) that get their time set automatically use one of the VBI lines in the NTSC analog signals. They cannot be upgraded with a firmware upgrade to use a digital signal instead. Most do not even have an ATSC tuner in them. With the known exception of the Sony HD DVR, most devices that get the time using the NTSC VBI line only have NTSC tuners in them, so when the NTSC broadcasts are shut off, there will be no incentive to provide a work-around for these devices, since there will be no programming for them to receive/record anyway. I don't see the few devices that do have ATSC tuners in them (i.e. the Sony) as enough incentive either. I am still hoping that one of the major manufacturers will come to their senses and develop a suitable replacement.

jay214128

11-10-06, 12:52 PM

Are all your host Channels listed on the setup screen so you can pick the one you want? In my case I only have one host Channel listed their so I assume that is the only one I can get. It's the only analog PBS station.
Only one host channel is listed on each device. Each device selected the host channel it found acceptable. The Sonys always chose channel 10 (skipping over 6 and 8), presumably because the TVGOS data on channels 6 and 8 were not acceptable/preferable to the Sony TVGuide version.

Erik Garci

11-10-06, 02:37 PM

Time will tell. I'm in the camp that thinks these units will become doorstops when the analog stations are shut off. The critical item I see is that there will be no way to set the correct time (and date) in these boxes. All of the television devices (TVs, VCRs, DVRs, etc.) that get their time set automatically use one of the VBI lines in the NTSC analog signals. They cannot be upgraded with a firmware upgrade to use a digital signal instead.
One possible work-around is to get a box that produces an NTSC signal that carries date and time info. Specifically, the box generates eXtended Data Service (XDS) time-of-day packets on line 21 of the signal. That way, legacy analog-only devices could receive the date and time from this signal (at least until 2054, since XDS uses a 6-bit value for the year since 1990).

Rammitinski

11-10-06, 02:48 PM

My 2 SD DVR's which have the 7th generation guide get it from one station, while the Sony, which has the 8th, gets it from another. So it most likely does depend on the version.

As far as the Sony becoming a doorstop, I think us OTA'ers are the ones who have to worry the most. Cable could very well keep an analog channel(s) for it.

I'm just makin' sure I get my money's worth out of the DVR feature while it's still fully functional, and if nothing else, it'll always be useful to me for it's tuner (which has great picture quality and decent sensitivity). When (if) the time comes, the hard drive may be already shot anyway.

sivartk

11-10-06, 03:48 PM

I'm just makin' sure I get my money's worth out of the DVR feature while it's still fully functional, and if nothing else, it'll always be useful to me for it's tuner (which has great picture quality and decent sensitivity). When (if) the time comes, the hard drive may be already shot anyway.

I agree about the tuner. I bought a used HDD250 but paid the equivalent of a new Samsung ATSC / QAM tuner. So basically, I get 2 years free DVR service (if it goes dead in 2009) and the ability to pause live TV for the same price as others paid to just watch TV.

Lyca

11-10-06, 05:12 PM

Any idea if that was a refurbished unit, or was it truly New In Box?
My wife picked ity up at a Circuit City in Lake Worth, TX a few weeks ago, along with another one I'm going to sell on ebay. Both boxes were/are taped with a single factory tape. Everything inside the one I opend was sealed and/or taped.

I assume these are not refurb'd.

Regards

AtlantisMichael

11-10-06, 06:53 PM

Lyca

11-10-06, 08:05 PM

Here is a link to the current rules for the digital change over from analog:
http://www.hdtvinfoport.com/Digital-TV.html
You can see that a D/A converter box is going to be offered, meaning that our clocks could and should still get time information passed on.
Michael

Well, not necessarily - digital channels do not use VBI so converting a digital stream to analog wouldn't produce what is needed. If TVGOS info is somehow formatted and sent over a sub-channel in a digital stream, the new set top box would have to be capable of detecting the info in a sub-channel and converting it into a vertical blanking interval stream.

IF VBI conversion capable box is developed, OTA users will have another problem in that the majority of the programming most of us want (or will want) is digital, not analog. Do we use a splitter to get a digital signal to the input of the control box and yet another splitter to (re)combine the digital OTA with the analog output of the converter box? Sounds messy to me.

I'm not trying to be a negative jerk here, but I really think the best answer will be a patch from Sony or a hack from a smart TV junkie... As noted before, there are a lot of appliances out there, old and new, that rely on the current TVGOS architecture. It seems that this counts for something and if consumers raise enough havoc, solutions will be made available...

spiff72

11-10-06, 10:33 PM

Well, not necessarily - digital channels do not use VBI so converting a digital stream to analog wouldn't produce what is needed. If TVGOS info is somehow formatted and sent over a sub-channel in a digital stream, the new set top box would have to be capable of detecting the info in a sub-channel and converting it into a vertical blanking interval stream.

IF VBI conversion capable box is developed, OTA users will have another problem in that the majority of the programming most of us want (or will want) is digital, not analog. Do we use a splitter to get a digital signal to the input of the control box and yet another splitter to (re)combine the digital OTA with the analog output of the converter box? Sounds messy to me.

I'm not trying to be a negative jerk here, but I really think the best answer will be a patch from Sony or a hack from a smart TV junkie... As noted before, there are a lot of appliances out there, old and new, that rely on the current TVGOS architecture. It seems that this counts for something and if consumers raise enough havoc, solutions will be made available...

You have a valid point, but I think AtlantisMichael was only referring to clock data (not guide data). Since this Sony has no way to manually set the clock, perhaps the time data that IS present in the digital PSIP data could be used to set the clock. This will require either a software or firmware update, I suspect.

I agree on the what you said about the analog/digital splitting that might be needed.

gigaguy

11-10-06, 11:21 PM

Gigaguy,
Did you get your clock back? And is it working correctly now? I have unplug my units from time to time and always leave them off for at least 5 minutes in hopes to prevent any glitches. By the way, before you moved it, did you allow for the hard drive to spin down after you unplugged it?
Michael
Uh oh, I had the opposite idea, that the faster I replugged in and attached the TV cable the less problems I would have. No, the clock has not reset and maybe more tellingly, no VBI data is flowing on what used to be my host channel. I've reset everything, and of course, lost the listings I had. but the clock is 12 hours off. I hate to reformat and lose my recordings, damm.
I checked my other 500 and VBI data is flowing over the PBS.
....I did the hdd reformat, still no VBI data on the PBs channel, not a host channel shown. I'll wait some more or until tomorrow.

Ray1938

11-11-06, 03:27 AM

You have a valid point, but I think AtlantisMichael was only referring to clock data (not guide data). Since this Sony has no way to manually set the clock, perhaps the time data that IS present in the digital PSIP data could be used to set the clock. This will require either a software or firmware update, I suspect.

I agree on the what you said about the analog/digital splitting that might be needed.

Sony & TV-Gude designed this recorder with the knowledge that analog tv was going off the air within the lifetime of the unit. Therefore I am confident that the design allows this special purpose computer to accommodate the changeover to digital tv. With regard to the firmware updates, their only purpose is for tv compatibility. As proof, one of my two units has the earlest version, and it has been performing perfectly for several months since i tweeked antenna position.

I for one am not going to worry about something beyond my control. Instead i am going to continue enjoying my two recorders, and let Sony and TV- Guide do their jobs.

Ray

Rammitinski

11-11-06, 04:29 AM

Uh oh, I had the opposite idea, that the faster I replugged in and attached the TV cable the less problems I would have. No, the clock has not reset and maybe more tellingly, no VBI data is flowing on what used to be my host channel. I've reset everything, and of course, lost the listings I had. but the clock is 12 hours off. I hate to reformat and lose my recordings, damm.
I checked my other 500 and VBI data is flowing over the PBS.
....I did the hdd reformat, still no VBI data on the PBs channel, not a host channel shown. I'll wait some more or until tomorrow.The last time I had that problem with the time, I had to do the front panel reset AND the 9012 (TV Guide-only - no recordings lost) reset to get it back to normal. I think I may have had to do both a couple of times.

I don't know if waiting a day would've straightened things out, but I didn't want to wait that long, mainly because I wanted the guide to re-populate as soon as possible.

FanofHD

11-11-06, 08:52 AM

Can someone confirm that this is the correct procedure for forcing your host?

1. Tune to the station (either OTA or cable) that you want to use as the host.
2. Press <GUIDE> - move the cursor over the SETUP item on the top menu bar, then press <DOWN>, followed by 963214785. If the code is received properly, the "Info" message just below "Change System Settings" should disappear.
3. Don't touch anything. The screen should disappear after 5 minutes. Once it disappears, turn off the unit and leave it alone overnight to magically download the guide.
4. on the following day, check the host channel with the "753..." menu described above. If it shows the host channel you tuned to in Step 1, you have successfully changed it! If not, try resetting the guide info and start over.

Question, when the code is received properly the info message just below Change System Settings should say, "Searching Current VBI Channel", correct? and then after 5 minites it dissapears correct? Then next day you see if host.took. Also should you only perform this force after you have done a TV Guide reset (exit/tv guide button front panel)

gigaguy

11-11-06, 09:45 AM

The last time I had that problem with the time, I had to do the front panel reset AND the 9012 (TV Guide-only - no recordings lost) reset to get it back to normal. I think I may have had to do both a couple of times.

I don't know if waiting a day would've straightened things out, but I didn't want to wait that long, mainly because I wanted the guide to re-populate as soon as possible.
I've done most everything to fix it but it never shows any clock or any VBI data flowing or that the host channel is found. (There is a time showing on the onscreen TV display mode but it is 12 hours off. no clock on the panel. I reformatted, (lost all my recordings), unplugged for 10 minutes, removed the cablecard and re-inserted, did the 9012 multiple times (and 753), did the TVGOS reset numerous times before and after reformat. Reformat showed it had fixed an error too. I left it tuned to the PBS channel, left it turned off. I've joined the frustrated users club, it was working perfectly and all I did was unplug it, and maybe plugged it back in too soon.
Maybe I'll try the force host channel?? or completely go to Factory default, I avoided this cause I don't want to reset all the channels etc and I didn't know if this would screw up the cablecard setup.
Shouldn;t it always be showing some VBI data flowing? I get 0 data and failed VBI tests on my PBS channel. I just did the force VBI, we'll see.

drhankz

11-11-06, 10:23 AM

I avoided this cause I don't want to reset all the channels etc and I didn't know if this would screw up the cablecard setup.

Resetting all the channels may be a PAIN in the XXXX - but not a bad thing.

It should do nothing to the Cablecard because it only gets INFO from your Cable Company.

AtlantisMichael

11-11-06, 11:01 AM

Has anyone had a OTA channel lineup change? I know with cable, when they change or add channels you get a message that the channel guide is updating and will be available in 24 hours, or something to that effect. I know that OTA channels are static in that they are not adding stations or changing their callsigns. The only exception here is the new CW network, but I still have the old callsign for the channel. Dose anyone else have the CW network listed? Or any new callsigns or even sub channels listed for OTA only? Or has anyone done a complete factory reset with a new OTA scan and found that you had some new channel guide callsigns and or channels?
Thanks, Michael

sivartk

11-11-06, 11:29 AM

The only exception here is the new CW network, but I still have the old callsign for the channel. Dose anyone else have the CW network listed?

I had to manually map the CW network to get the data. I just changed the ananlog channel and made it tune to the digital simulcast. It doesn't mark the shows as "HD" but I still get the correct data. Also, there is no "CW" symbol in my line up at all. Just had to use the call letters.

FanofHD

11-11-06, 12:44 PM

drhankz

11-11-06, 02:29 PM

FanofHD

11-11-06, 02:37 PM

Mitch G

11-11-06, 02:39 PM

drhankz

11-11-06, 02:42 PM

I'll probably be forced into getting Comcast HD box they offer which I don't want

Ah But that is what Comcast Wants - they don't like these SONY boxes!

AtlantisMichael

11-11-06, 06:27 PM

AtlantisMichael

11-11-06, 06:56 PM

I thought that I would see what happens when you turn on a channel and assign it a working channel number. I did this this morning and now I have listings for day 1,2 and 8. So apparently data is sent throughout the day. I did have it off for the afternoon and was surprised that the listings for those channels appeared. By the way, the stations that I turned on are all cable, and I assigned them OTA channel numbers. I am OTA only. So it does not matter what the actual channel number is for a given guide callsign, the listings will appear for the actual callsign,ie; HBO, Showtime, etc. as long it is turned on and assigned a channel. The guide setup will not allow for you to turn a station on if it does not have a channel number for it.
This just proves that the guide will show listings for any of the callsigns as long as they are turned on in the setup guide. It means that TVGOS listings are sent out for all the callsigns, not for your channel numbers. And the channel numbers do not have to be working channels in order for the listings to appear.
Michael

FanofHD

11-11-06, 07:18 PM

Ah But that is what Comcast Wants - they don't like these SONY boxes!

Right you are, that is why I have spent the time I have thus far, I bought my 500 from Tweaters just as they reduced then, cost me $250.00 so for 9 months I have not recvd my $250.00 worth so I'll keep trying till I get it to work, Let's hope Comcast send someone that knows what they are doing. I still think there is a problem with the card because it is aquiring only 26 analog channels from the card whereas when I first had the card it was 72 anlaog which how many I really have and having them re-hit the card is not working and I think of those analog channels I'm missing from the card is the PBS host that is transmitting the data and why my Sony is mapping to 97 a no signal ch. Of course I'm no expert but I feel like with all the stuff I know about this Sony LOL

drhankz

11-11-06, 07:32 PM

Of course I'm no expert but I feel like with all the stuff I know about this Sony LOL

Don't expect any Comcast Experts either. I have had three different Comcast Techs install my 5 Cable Cards in my DVRs.

THEY ARE AMAZED this works because they are TAUGHT that ONLY THEIR DVR works on Comcast.

But at least they are GOOD Card Swappers and they can kick butt at the [NOC] Network Operations Center to get the card running for you.

robin182

11-11-06, 09:06 PM

Ye of little faith:

--- email response from WOW ---
Thank you for contacting Wow Internet and Cable and Phone.

WOW! will be removing the encryption from our broadcast High Definition (HD) channels in our HD lineup beginning on November 7, 2006.

These channels will no longer be encrypted and WOW! Cable customers with a television set that has a built-in HD tuner will be able to see these channels:

--- end of email ----

I did a rescan (on my TV) and found the channels (along with all the music channels :(). They are from 200 through 206. Although I'll probably still use OTA for most channels, having CBS-HD (which I never could get OTA) is nice.

Mitch

Woooo Hoooo!

Way to go Mitch! Finally a win for the little guy! Like I've said before, if these Cable companies think they can get away with violating FCC rules, trust them to try it. We need more people like you who are willing to show them, with proof positive that their business practices are violations before they reverse themselves.

Let's here it for one fantastic win!

Woo Hoo!

Bobbie

robin182

11-11-06, 09:30 PM

Yeah just called them again had a guy helping me and then they disconnected me. Called again (like I have all the time in the world to play around) talked to someone else, they hit the card still same error. Now they have to send someone out. If they can't fix this I'm over all this. I'll probably be forced into getting Comcast HD box they offer which I don't want to since I have this Sony. I'm so tired of all these problems, I just want it to work like it did for the past 9 months but I don't expect it to work right anymore. Well see what happens.

My conspiracy theory would say that Comcast has purposely given you bad cards that would fail so that they could send someone out to your place so that you could be charged for a service call. Of course there would be no way to test this unless you had a TV with a card slot as well to toss in. If you're getting the same problem, you'll know that you're being provisioned with junk.

I know I sound like I have a lot rancor for the cable companies, but after speaking to a Comcast installer (off the record), I was told that Comcast can do whatever they want, because 99.9% of their subscribers have no idea of the law, technical issues, etc. to protect themselves from fraud. So, take anything they tell with a grain of salt, both eyes open. :mad:

Mitch G

11-12-06, 12:35 AM

Woooo Hoooo!

Way to go Mitch! Finally a win for the little guy! Like I've said before, if these Cable companies think they can get away with violating FCC rules, trust them to try it. We need more people like you who are willing to show them, with proof positive that their business practices are violations before they reverse themselves.

Let's here it for one fantastic win!

Woo Hoo!

Bobbie

For the record, I sent my email to them AFTER November 7. So, I can't take any credit for the change.

Mitch

larmic1

11-12-06, 03:26 AM

Went to Comcast office to exchange my cablecard for my DVR, now when I insert it says error code 16-1 to contact comcast, called them, resent the signal, did a rescan of my cable, now I have nothing but this error message. Now I can't even use my DVR. Anyone know what this code is and if I can fix it myself?

I should have let it alone at least I had everything before except guide data now I cant even use it.

Having had 3 cable cards myself with Comcast (1 completely defective, 1 with selective functions, 1 still working) I can tell tou exactly what your problem is. Once you pulled out your old card and pushed in the new one, that was it. Only the tech can come out and match the codes. In order for the cards to work the have to be matched with the hardware itself, kind of like Microsoft matches the Windows XP codes to the hard drive. I had one tech out here for nearly an hour trying to get the codes from his supervisor who was out in the field. Maybe it is why they charge extra for installation, but if you tell them it is a service call on defective equipment, that is different than the flat fee installation charge, so they might waive it for you.

Larry

drhankz

11-12-06, 08:48 AM

AtlantisMichael

11-12-06, 11:24 AM

Having had 3 cable cards myself with Comcast (1 completely defective, 1 with selective functions, 1 still working) I can tell tou exactly what your problem is. Once you pulled out your old card and pushed in the new one, that was it. Only the tech can come out and match the codes. In order for the cards to work the have to be matched with the hardware itself, kind of like Microsoft matches the Windows XP codes to the hard drive. I had one tech out here for nearly an hour trying to get the codes from his supervisor who was out in the field. Maybe it is why they charge extra for installation, but if you tell them it is a service call on defective equipment, that is different than the flat fee installation charge, so they might waive it for you.

Larry
Let me first start by apologizing if I sound like I am on my soapbox. I don't mean anything personal, but hope to open up some eyes as to troubleshooting these Sony HD-DVRs. And in the process, help people save some time and grief.

I don't want to sound rude ,harsh or accusatory, but, if a little more time was spent reviewing the Sony HD guide via Spiffs link, as well as searching and really reading the post here, most all the "problems" with these units could be solved rather quickly. This, I don't have time to read all these post is a poor excuse when you consider that I see time and time again a lot of the same problems posted over and over. Also, all the banter about conspiracy theories does not address the real problem someone is having, just shifting blame.
If you will note, FanofHD said that he was getting the 161-6 error ( even though he did not have it correctly shown in his post). From the post here it has been discussed that when this happens, the only solution is to send the unit in for repair. Changing out cards and having a cable tech out will not change the outcome of his problem at this point. It will be another waste of time ( again from the previous experiences of the posters). If FanofHD had rechecked Spiffs reference material on the units, he would have saved himself quite some time and aggravation. He said that he had a card in his tv, so I would have thought that the logical solution would have been to swap cable cards. But from Larry, I see that it might not have worked anyway. But then again, if swapping the cards gave the 161-6 error, then a lot of time would have been saved (3 plus weeks).
As you can see from Larrys post as well as others, these cable cards can be finicky. I am not sure how these cards are provisioned, either by the subscribers address, account, and or by the device and its type, serial number, etc... Point here is, that once the 161-6 error showed up, the solution is to send it in for repair, especially if it is still in warranty.
Enough said, and again I offer my apologizes if I sound as though I am on a soapbox. Only trying to save people some time here by a logical approach to their problems.
Michael
PS: Since finding this forum, I have learn a lot about these units from all of you who have been so kind to share your knowledge and experiences with others. Thank you all so much. You have saved me countless hours of trail and error.

FanofHD

11-12-06, 11:57 AM

Let me first start by apologizing if I sound like I am on my soapbox. I don't mean anything personal, but hope to open up some eyes as to troubleshooting these Sony HD-DVRs. And in the process, help people save some time and grief.

I don't want to sound rude ,harsh or accusatory, but, if a little more time was spent reviewing the Sony HD guide via Spiffs link, as well as searching and really reading the post here, most all the "problems" with these units could be solved rather quickly. This, I don't have time to read all these post is a poor excuse when you consider that I see time and time again a lot of the same problems posted over and over. Also, all the banter about conspiracy theories does not address the real problem someone is having, just shifting blame.
If you will note, FanofHD said that he was getting the 161-6 error ( even though he did not have it correctly shown in his post). From the post here it has been discussed that when this happens, the only solution is to send the unit in for repair. Changing out cards and having a cable tech out will not change the outcome of his problem at this point. It will be another waste of time ( again from the previous experiences of the posters). If FanofHD had rechecked Spiffs reference material on the units, he would have saved himself quite some time and aggravation. He said that he had a card in his tv, so I would have thought that the logical solution would have been to swap cable cards. But from Larry, I see that it might not have worked anyway. But then again, if swapping the cards gave the 161-6 error, then a lot of time would have been saved (3 plus weeks).
As you can see from Larrys post as well as others, these cable cards can be finicky. I am not sure how these cards are provisioned, either by the subscribers address, account, and or by the device and its type, serial number, etc... Point here is, that once the 161-6 error showed up, the solution is to send it in for repair, especially if it is still in warranty.
Enough said, and again I offer my apologizes if I sound as though I am on a soapbox. Only trying to save people some time here by a logical approach to their problems.
Michael
PS: Since finding this forum, I have learn a lot about these units from all of you who have been so kind to share your knowledge and experiences with others. Thank you all so much. You have saved me countless hours of trail and error.

AtlantisMichael

As much as I appreciate your post some of your info is wrong. Let me tell you why, When I went yesterday to have the card replaced and brought home the new card I inserted it and yes I got this error code 161-1, (here is where your info is incorrect) I then took my working card from my TV and inserted it into the Sony, it worked, all my channels mapped over but it was still saying cablecard only found 26 analog channels when I know for a fact I have 74 analog channels. So my Sony does not need repair as you suggested it is still working in fact I set up a program manually on a HD program with the card from the tv now inserted into the Sony. So my problem lies with the card not picking up all the proper analog channels in order for me to get my host channel which is Ch17 PBS (how do I know it's ch 17 PBS?) Few days ago I took the card completely out and I had guide data within 6 hrs same day and host was showing 17 when I did the host check. With the card inserted I go to 17 PBS and do the VBI test and it says fail, so the card is not picking up that channel and thus reverting my host to ch 97 (no signal ch) with this defective card in.

So now I have 1 card working but not working correctly and 1 card with this error code.

Isn't this fun? right!! I just want this fixed. that's all.

FanofHD

11-12-06, 12:11 PM

Oh I also forgot to add...
I also did an auto scan for cable on the DVR and it finds all my digitial and analog channels fine so the cable signal is fine, also did a tv scan and it finds the same # of digital and analog. This is also how I know something went wrong with the cablecard after 9 months cause the card is saying it found only 26 analog channels when the scan says it found 74.

AtlantisMichael

11-12-06, 12:25 PM

AtlantisMichael

As much as I appreciate your post some of your info is wrong. Let me tell you why, When I went yesterday to have the card replaced and brought home the new card I inserted it and yes I got this error code 161-1, (here is where your info is incorrect) I then took my working card from my TV and inserted it into the Sony, it worked, all my channels mapped over but it was still saying cablecard only found 26 analog channels when I know for a fact I have 74 analog channels. So my Sony does not need repair as you suggested it is still working in fact I set up a program manually on a HD program with the card from the tv now inserted into the Sony. So my problem lies with the card not picking up all the proper analog channels in order for me to get my host channel which is Ch17 PBS (how do I know it's ch 17 PBS?) Few days ago I took the card completely out and I had guide data within 6 hrs same day and host was showing 17 when I did the host check. With the card inserted I go to 17 PBS and do the VBI test and it says fail, so the card is not picking up that channel and thus reverting my host to ch 97 (no signal ch) with this defective card in.

So now I have 1 card working but not working correctly and 1 card with this error code.

Isn't this fun? right!! I just want this fixed. that's all.
FanofHD,
I base my information on the fact that other people have had the same error code and that in Spiffs resource guide it clearly states that the only fix for this is to send it back for a repair and firmware upgrade. Hey, if this turns out not to be correct after the cable tech comes out, let us know how he fixed it, and if not , let us know what you decide to do next.. The more information we have the better we can share.
Michael

FanofHD

11-12-06, 01:39 PM

Yes I will surely update everyone. I just noticed you mentioned 161-6, that is not the error code I am getting. Mine said 161-1 and stated that cable service cannot be provided at this time please contact Comcast to resove this matter. It's the card, why else would my other card I took from my TV and put into the DVR work? If there was a problem with the machine that Sony needed to fix then I would have got the same error on the TV card as I got with the defective card.

spiff72

11-12-06, 01:40 PM

FanofHD,
I base my information on the fact that other people have had the same error code and that in Spiffs resource guide it clearly states that the only fix for this is to send it back for a repair and firmware upgrade. Hey, if this turns out not to be correct after the cable tech comes out, let us know how he fixed it, and if not , let us know what you decide to do next.. The more information we have the better we can share.
Michael

There seems to be some confusion here. I think there are two different errors being referenced here. The error in my FAQ is code 161-6, but the error mentioned here is error 161-1.

EDIT: I did see the following quote on the cablecard instructions on the Series 3 Tivo:

If you see error 161-4 during installation, you can ignore it. If you see Error 161-2, it means that the card is damaged and needs to be replaced. I also saw another mention of the fact that a 161-1 indicates that you have a bad card (this was in the forums section of the Tivo web site).

AtlantisMichael

11-12-06, 02:15 PM

There seems to be some confusion here. I think there are two different errors being referenced here. The error in my FAQ is code 161-6, but the error mentioned here is error 161-1.

EDIT: I did see the following quote on the cablecard instructions on the Series 3 Tivo:

If you see error 161-4 during installation, you can ignore it. If you see Error 161-2, it means that the card is damaged and needs to be replaced. I also saw another mention of the fact that a 161-1 indicates that you have a bad card (this was in the forums section of the Tivo web site).
As they say on Buffy, my bad! I should get some new reading glasess. Thanks for the additional error codes. I don't think I have seen them before.
Michael

AtlantisMichael

11-12-06, 02:37 PM

Just did an entire forum search for "161-1" and show all post. Had forgotten that this error was discussed here before. Apparently there were numerous post on that code throughout the entire forum and not specific to just the Sony DHG dvrs. Sorry FanofHD I misread the error code that you posted earlier. Just had the other in my head from reading the resource guide. Perhaps the resource guide in spiffspace could be updated with these other codes. Spiff72??
Thanks,
Michael

spiff72

11-12-06, 03:33 PM

spiff72

11-12-06, 03:57 PM

I am a little hesitant to update, since I am not 100% sure of the actual meanings of the error codes. If I can get some better descriptions, I will update.

Never mind - I have updated with info for error codes 161-1,2,4 and 6.

gigaguy

11-12-06, 07:31 PM

For anyone who cares, I have some relief from my no TVGOS data problem, seems the cablco is having cablecard problems being reported. I popped out the cc and the TVGOs data started flowing. I thought I had messed up the 500 when I unplugged it recently. Unfortunately I cleared my hard drive trying to troubleshoot. Patience would have paid off if I would have just waited it out! but my other similar cc setup in the bedroom was working fine last I checked.
But once again, it wasn't the Sony's fault!

Cliff_

11-12-06, 07:52 PM

Quick question.

If I get a cable card from comcast will I be still using the TV guide menu or Comcasts? And will all the unencripted chanels have listings?

CJ

cheneyp

11-12-06, 07:55 PM

Quick question.

If I get a cable card from comcast will I be still using the TV guide menu or Comcasts? And will all the unencripted chanels have listings?

CJ

It will be from the TVGOS service, not from Comcast. If you set up your TVGOS as digital cable in your zip code, listings will be populated based on the Comcast lineup in your area.

jtbell

11-13-06, 12:29 AM

So apparently data is sent throughout the day. I did have it off for the afternoon and was surprised that the listings for those channels appeared.

The TVGOS data is sent out in four duplicate three-hour chunks per day. I'm too lazy right now to get up, turn on my system, and call up the debug screens to check the exact times, but as I recall they start at approximately 2:15 am, 6:30 am, 10:45 am and 1:45 pm ET. Your unit needs to be off (or rather, in standby) during the entirety of one of those four chunks., in order for the guide to be updated properly.

Rammitinski

11-13-06, 01:19 PM

Mitch G

11-13-06, 01:24 PM

Speaking of "forcing the host channel" (on the previous page), I was just wondering if anyone has actually successfully done this - and it stuck - for good. The reason I ask is I don't recall anyone ever actually doing it successfully throughout this whole thread. (I'm certainly not going to read through the whole dang thing to try to find it!)

spiff, what exactly is your basis for assuming this could actually be done?

Not meant to be an argument of any kind - just honestly can't recall any successes. Prove me wrong, by all means!

I had some flakey experiences with forcing the host channel, but I was able to force to OTA-11 and it stuck for over a week before I reset things. So, I would call that a successful example. That said, my listings were somewhat flakey using OTA-11 (I have thoughts on why) and that's why I reset the unit and went back to the default Cable-2.

Mitch

spiff72

11-13-06, 01:28 PM

Speaking of "forcing the host channel" (on the previous page), I was just wondering if anyone has actually successfully done this - and it stuck - for good. The reason I ask is I don't recall anyone ever actually doing it successfully throughout this whole thread. (I'm certainly not going to read through the whole dang thing to try to find it!)

spiff, what exactly is your basis for assuming this could actually be done?

Not meant to be an argument of any kind - just honestly can't recall any successes. Prove me wrong, by all means!

I can go back and look through my email/forum messages, but the instructions were provided to me by another forum member. I haven't actually done it myself. I think they posted the instructions in this forum at one point in time.

I will dig around and see if I can find who it was.

swestbom

11-13-06, 02:12 PM

Speaking of "forcing the host channel" (on the previous page), I was just wondering if anyone has actually successfully done this - and it stuck - for good. The reason I ask is I don't recall anyone ever actually doing it successfully throughout this whole thread. (I'm certainly not going to read through the whole dang thing to try to find it!)

spiff, what exactly is your basis for assuming this could actually be done?

Not meant to be an argument of any kind - just honestly can't recall any successes. Prove me wrong, by all means!

I did it successfully for OTA in Boston by changing from channel from 25 5o 2. That was 6 months ago though. It was painful and required the use of the hidden pages.

Rammitinski

11-13-06, 02:50 PM

I did it successfully for OTA in Boston by changing from channel from 25 5o 2. That was 6 months ago though. It was painful and required the use of the hidden pages.Maybe you could PM spiff the details so that he could put them in his faq's. Or just list them here, as it sounds like a good amount of posters could use the info (not me personally right now) :) .

paula

11-13-06, 04:46 PM

Speaking of "forcing the host channel" (on the previous page), I was just wondering if anyone has actually successfully done this - and it stuck - for good. The reason I ask is I don't recall anyone ever actually doing it successfully throughout this whole thread.

I should have reported back. A few pages ago I stated I was going to force the host channel *without* doing the TVGOS reset first. It worked just fine. My HDD500 reset TVGOS itself in the process.

Slightly different that the FAQ: The 'info' logo went away and "VBI CURRENT CHANNEL" appeared in large letters in the info box when I finished the keystroke sequence. My HDD500 has recent firmware from Sony Factory Service.

FanofHD

11-13-06, 06:06 PM

Question: When you test the VBI and it passes and starts counting VBI how can you tell if the channel is just seeing close captioned instead of knowing what your true host channel is.

With my cablecard in how can I find my true host channel. Do I have to search every channel doing the VBI before I find one that passes the VBI test and if I find one how do I know if it's not just picking up the closed captioned? Yes I know it's usually a PBS or local station but do I have to try all of them before I find one that works (speaking of using the cablecard not OTA)

This has never really been clarified.

UPDATE TO MY PROBLEM:
I just found out today that Comcast in my area has changed alot of analog channels to digital. I think this is my problem. I got a new cablecard today and both cards are now working. So I use to have 74 analog station but now I have 24 cause Comcast has changed the other over to digital. If I could find the host that use to be analog that Comcast changed over to digital than I might be working again with guide but do I have to check every single digital channel to see if it passes the VBI to find my host? (again this is with cablecard not OTA)

FanofHD

11-13-06, 07:29 PM

spiff72

11-13-06, 07:41 PM

Based on what I found out from Comcast today that they are changing most of our analog channels to digital that I am predicting this is my host problem and why my host is reverting to ch 97 (no signal ch)

Without a card, I get guide data within 6 hrs and host shows as 17, with the card inserted my 17 is now a digital ch and therefore cannot pick up the Gemstar tv guide data. So it appears I will probably never have guide data again on this Sony. Unless I choose not to use the cablecard. Comcast said that a neighboring city of mine is now all digital and they have no analog channels, Comcast said they hope to have everyone in my area on completely digital soon.

Comcast is supposed to have agreements in place with Gemstar/TVGOS to be sure that the guide data is passed through. When they go to an all-digital lineup, they are supposed to add an analog duplicate of the host channel for the sole purpose of providing this guide data.

You might want to try calling the 800 number on my site for contacting TVGOS.

FanofHD

11-13-06, 07:47 PM

Thanks I will call them. I tried calling them last week and I ended up on hold for 15 min and I couldn't hold anymore from work. Will try them again this week. I'm going to tell them what Comcast told me that their analog ch on basic cable without a card is transmitting the data but when a customer of their opts for digitial and a cablecard they are changing the analog station into a digital one through their cablecard. This makes complete sense to me now why I am not getting data with the card and getting it fine without a card.

Lyca

11-13-06, 07:54 PM

I asked this question earlier but I think most of the active members were hot and heavy in another problem. Has anyone experienced the loud, constant humming described below? Thanks and regards. Lyca

Hey guys,

I'm getting a very loud, constant humming tone when I pause, rewind or fast forward a recorded or live (non-recorded) program. This is happening on a brand new unit (my original unit doesn't do this - it does, however, make a short 1/2 or 1 second burst of the same tone when FF, REV or Pause is selected). Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Chip Chanko

11-13-06, 08:07 PM

I finally picked one of these up off ebay...under $400 w/ shipping and new in box. Works great! I'm still keeping my Tivo series 2 going for all SD stuff but the sony worked right out of the box, received all guide data, etc. I couldn't be happier (well...maybe a mute button on the remote, not have it startup on the guide every time you power it on...). Anyway, money well spent since the HD TiVo can't map channels and is more than 2x what I paid for this. Of course...now it's making me want to update my receiver.

sivartk

11-13-06, 08:37 PM

...not have it startup on the guide every time you power it on...

There is an option for this. Can't remember if it is through the TVGOS or in the main preferences. Look in the manual you'll find it.

I have one that comes up with the guide and another that doesn't.

Cliff_

11-13-06, 08:52 PM

It will be from the TVGOS service, not from Comcast. If you set up your TVGOS as digital cable in your zip code, listings will be populated based on the Comcast lineup in your area.

I get the TVGUIDE but the digital channels don't have listings??????

Lyca

11-13-06, 09:46 PM

[QUOTE=Originally Posted by Chip Chanko
...not have it startup on the guide every time you power it on...[/QUOTE]

select "TV Guide" button on remote;
go to "Service Bar";
go to "Setup";
select "Change Default Options";
turn "Auto Guide" to "OFF"

Ray1938

11-14-06, 02:57 AM

I get the TVGUIDE but the digital channels don't have listings??????

If the guide doesn't show the HD channels, you selected the wrong cable option, which you can correct with the setup menu.

If you are on cable without cable card, you need to manually scan through the channels to find the digital ones and write down the channel number of each digital station you want. Then edit them into the guide using the setup menu.

Ray

AtlantisMichael

11-14-06, 01:06 PM

I asked this question earlier but I think most of the active members were hot and heavy in another problem. Has anyone experienced the loud, constant humming described below? Thanks and regards. Lyca
Lyca,
What kind of setup do you have. Is the Sony directly connected to the tv or through an AVR unit? Plus what type of connection (HDMI, Component, etc...) are you using between the two?
Michael

dturturro

11-14-06, 02:19 PM

gigaguy

11-14-06, 02:53 PM

which part ? The first part you go to Setup menu- choose the first drop down, I forget the name - System settings maybe, and then you reset up the box.

2nd part is also done in Setup menu- the 2nd drop down, Change channel line up.
Pick the channel you want to renumber, hit Menu and there is an option to renumber the call number to a new #.

Unfortunately for me, my cableco numbers all the HD channels above 1500, and you can only enter 3 digit channel #s in the change station number Menu. Boo.

drhankz

11-14-06, 02:57 PM

Unfortunately for me, my cableco numbers all the HD channels above 1500, and you can only enter 3 digit channel #s in the change station number Menu. Boo.

Have you talked to SONY?

Is there is fix for 4 Digit numbers?

gigaguy

11-14-06, 03:28 PM

drhankz

11-14-06, 03:54 PM

It's not a Sony issue, it's TVGOS, and maybe a little sabotage from the cableco since they lose out on renting their boxes, they may want to make cablecard and TVGOs not as friendly.
I know of no fix, but it seems like it would be a simple update by TVGOS, as I'm sure many cablecos use channel #'s above 999 now. My cableco numbers channels all the way into the 1700 range.

But you have stated you can only enter 3 digit channel numbers.

I think SONY might have a software fix for that.

Of course I can be wrong - which I usually am [GRIN]!

Mitch G

11-14-06, 04:04 PM

I get the TVGUIDE but the digital channels don't have listings??????

Are you saying that when you look at TVGOS, you see entries for the digital channels but no listing data? Or, you don't see entries at all.
If it's the latter, then I would use the setup channel display menu and see if the channels are there just not turned on. If it's the former, then that's indicative of a TVGOS data problem.

Mitch

gigaguy

11-14-06, 04:19 PM

AFAIK, changing the channel mapping # is part of the TVGOS software not the Sony tuner. THe Sony tuner tunes in all my channels just fine, it's just that tthe TVGOS program only allows you to renumber channel listings for the guide using 1, 2 or 3 digits. TVGOS is implemented in various products, like TVs and DVD recorders from many manufacturers.

spiff72

11-14-06, 04:44 PM

Are you saying that when you look at TVGOS, you see entries for the digital channels but no listing data? Or, you don't see entries at all.
If it's the latter, then I would use the setup channel display menu and see if the channels are there just not turned on. If it's the former, then that's indicative of a TVGOS data problem.

Mitch

Also, is Cliff_ using a cable or OTA or both? If he has a cablecard, he may be seeing digital channels mapped to their QAM channel assignments (like 104-3, for example).

This would be a case where the channels need to be mapped to the right numbers for his cable lineup.

gigaguy

11-14-06, 05:41 PM

spiff72

11-14-06, 07:00 PM

Spiff since you're here and know a lot! why wouldn't TVGOS update to 4 digit re-numbering. Could the update be done thru the cable wire?
It's annoying that many of my HD channels I record from end up in the 'Unknown' folder. And if you have more than 4 recordings I can never remember what is there unless I play each one. Not to mention the added steps and mistakes I make trying to set up manual recordings.

I don't have all the answers unfortunately, but I DO think that the TVGOS software can be updated via the downloads that it does. It could be done OTA or via cable. Whether this type of update could be done, I don't really know.

It did appear that they were limited (from previous experiments) to a maximum channel number of 1023 or 1024. This would be an 10 bit value. Perhaps there are memory registers that are limited to 10 bits? I don't know.

sivartk

11-14-06, 07:27 PM

spiff72

11-14-06, 07:36 PM

Let me see if I understand. Any 4 digital cable channel doesn't show up in the TVGOS with the appropriate schedule info? Strange, I use the QAM tuner hooked up to TWC (get the guide data via OTA) and get the 15XX series of numbers just fine in my TVGOS and use them to record regularly and capture all the program data. I don't have any digital service, so I'm not sure how those would react.

The issue is that if you need to map a 4-digit channel to a channel in the channel editor, you can't enter it (if the channel number is higher than 1024).

You CAN, however, enter a channel number higher than 1024 if you are simply trying to tune to a channel.

Do you have a cablecard installed in your DVR? If so, it can probably map these channels automatically?

sivartk

11-14-06, 08:05 PM

The issue is that if you need to map a 4-digit channel to a channel in the channel editor, you can't enter it (if the channel number is higher than 1024).

You CAN, however, enter a channel number higher than 1024 if you are simply trying to tune to a channel.

Do you have a cablecard installed in your DVR? If so, it can probably map these channels automatically?

No, just using QAM tuner, no cable card, no Digital cable box. When the TVGOS downloaded the data the first time, it pulled in the clear QAM channels into the guide. Worked on both of my units and my cousins (same TWC service).

Now that I go and double check it, it has lost all of my listings due to my "setup change" Considering I haven't even used the machine since Sunday afternoon I'm not sure how any settings were changed. Double checked them and they were all the same as before. I guess I will need to fire up the projector and check the other machine later tonight to see if it lost the guide data.

Cliff_

11-14-06, 08:52 PM

If the guide doesn't show the HD channels, you selected the wrong cable option, which you can correct with the setup menu.

If you are on cable without cable card, you need to manually scan through the channels to find the digital ones and write down the channel number of each digital station you want. Then edit them into the guide using the setup menu.

Ray

I've tried a few different zip codes. The one i'm using now gives the right line up but the digital chanels that are decimal numbers, like 79.3 do not have listings. the TVGUIDE does not reconize them.

This is a real pain in the ass since I want to watch only digital and high def channels but no listing.

What now?

I'm not using a cable card and I'm only running on cable...

Cliff

spiff72

11-14-06, 09:14 PM

I've tried a few different zip codes. The one i'm using now gives the right line up but the digital chanels that are decimal numbers, like 79.3 do not have listings. the TVGUIDE does not reconize them.

This is a real pain in the ass since I want to watch only digital and high def channels but no listing.

What now?

I'm not using a cable card and I'm only running on cable...

Cliff

Go to the guide, then to the "Setup" heading in the upper menu bar for the guide. Then arrow down to "Change Channel Display". This will take you to the channel editor. Go through the list of channels and find the one for whichever channel that you want to edit. Let's say it is an ABC affiliate (in my area, WZZM). There are a LOT of channels in this listing so you may have to search. When you find the one you want, press the select button and you will get a menu on the left of the screen. Assuming that channel 79.3 is the channel that would be the station that you selected, you would enter 79.3 into the "Tune Channel" field of this menu. Then select the "done" item. You will actually have to do this for each channel that you want the listings for.

Lyca

11-14-06, 09:20 PM

Lyca,
What kind of setup do you have. Is the Sony directly connected to the tv or through an AVR unit? Plus what type of connection (HDMI, Component, etc...) are you using between the two?
Michael

I currently have two DHG-HDD250 connected directly to a Samsung HP-S5053 via HDMI-1 and HDMI-2 interfaces (an A/V R is planned but waiting for one w/ HDMI switching at an affordable price...).

I have swapped HDMI cables and positions, I've done full resets, HD format, etc. with no luck.

Ray1938

11-14-06, 09:30 PM

I've tried a few different zip codes. The one i'm using now gives the right line up but the digital chanels that are decimal numbers, like 79.3 do not have listings. the TVGUIDE does not reconize them.

This is a real pain in the ass since I want to watch only digital and high def channels but no listing.

What now?

I'm not using a cable card and I'm only running on cable...

Cliff

When you redid the setup, you should have been presented with a list of cable services from which to select yours. Did you see that list? If you did, did you choose the digital service? If you chose digital service, all of the cable channels should appear on the guide, but the HDTV channel numbers will not work without a cable card. You need to find the numbers that do work, and edit them into the guide. If you can't get the hdtv channels to appear on the guide, you can edit in the HDTV channel numbers in place of the analog numbers. For example, if analog NBC is on channel 4, and you find NBC HD on channel 79.3, just change 4 to 79.3 using the edit mode. Your other option is to try antenna reception. YOu may get more channels with that option since cable doesn't carry every channel.

Ray

FanofHD

11-14-06, 09:38 PM

Finally spoke to TV guide today, may just be making some headway, I will post more later when I have more concrete info, but my problem may be solved soon I think. :)

spiff72

11-14-06, 09:59 PM

Finally spoke to TV guide today, may just be making some headway, I will post more later when I have more concrete info, but my problem may be solved soon I think. :)

I am still waiting for a resolution to my issue. I suspect it WON'T be a quick solution...

jhirsche

11-14-06, 10:24 PM

cheneyp

11-14-06, 10:29 PM

When you redid the setup, you should have been presented with a list of cable services from which to select yours. Did you see that list? If you did, did you choose the digital service? If you chose digital service, all of the cable channels should appear on the guide, but the HDTV channel numbers will not work without a cable card. You need to find the numbers that do work, and edit them into the guide. If you can't get the hdtv channels to appear on the guide, you can edit in the HDTV channel numbers in place of the analog numbers. For example, if analog NBC is on channel 4, and you find NBC HD on channel 79.3, just change 4 to 79.3 using the edit mode. Your other option is to try antenna reception. YOu may get more channels with that option since cable doesn't carry every channel.

Ray

Actually, I just mapped the HD locals versions of the Digital Line-up to my QAM channels. For example, WTICDT comes up without a channel assignment when I selected Digital Cable in my area (I don't have cablecard). I then mapped this channel to my QAM equivalent, i.e., 89.1. This way, if there is an HD show on, the little "HD" symbol shows up in the show name.

paula

11-14-06, 10:47 PM

Since a bunch of folks have been grabbing the eBay recorders and many of them come without remotes, I thought I'd pass this along. I got a new remote (RM-Y823) at www.partstore.com Part #147885611 for $33 plus reasonable shipping.

AtlantisMichael

11-14-06, 11:00 PM

I think I'm having a similar problem to "FanofHD" I believe that Comcast in Baltimore City is not passing the TVGOS data via my cable feed. Currently, the regular cable lineup (2-78) is still analog - so if they were passing the TVGOS data, I would most definitely be getting it. Here are some configurations I've tried with my 500 to make this determination:

Condition: 500 with only OTA antenna attached
Result: clock, channel list and TVGOS data fills within a few hours via PBS OTA channel 22

Condition: 500 with only Comcast cable feed hooked up (one splitter with good signal after)
Result: clock sets ok, no TVGOS data or channel list after 24hr waiting period - TVGOS menu actually says no data to display
Check: guide channel?

Condition: 500 with both OTA and cable hooked up:
Result: clock, channel list and TVGOS data populates within hours via OTA PBS channel 22

Condition: 500 with OTA and cablecard inserted
Result: clock ok, TVGOS data does not populate, but channel list is correct
Note: if cablecard is ejected and all else remains the same (cable and OTA) - guide data fills again within a few hours. Upon re-insertion of the cablecard, guide data stops populating after last good download w/o cablecard.

So what do you all think? Is Comcast of Baltimore City, MD not passing the TVGOS data on their cable feed? And if not, who do I contact to correct this? Comcast, Gemstar, both?
I say that it is a ComCast problem. Seems that this is not an isolated incident with ComCast as others have had similar problems in other cities. You should contact Comcast and find the right person to solve this problem. The cable companies are suppose to pass the TVGOS information per FCC rules. If they are not cooperative, then I would file a complaint ( probably should anyway) with the FCC and any other government agency (local, state, etc..) that oversees the cable companies. I think if the regulators get enough complaints about the cable companies, then perhaps the cable companies will be forced to deal with this issue. I noticed on the Gemstar site that TVGOS works with both Dish and Direct receivers.
Michael

plasmalover

11-14-06, 11:43 PM

cheneyp

11-15-06, 12:32 AM

walden1974

11-15-06, 12:47 AM

AtlantisMichael

11-15-06, 01:39 AM

I currently have two DHG-HDD250 connected directly to a Samsung HP-S5053 via HDMI-1 and HDMI-2 interfaces (an A/V R is planned but waiting for one w/ HDMI switching at an affordable price...).

I have swapped HDMI cables and positions, I've done full resets, HD format, etc. with no luck.

I do not recall seeing any other post on your type of problem before. I thought it may have been something with the setup, but since you do not have an AVR, then all I can suggest would be that you contact Sony. I don't know why or how you would have a hum out of the system when using fast forward or reverse.
Michael

AtlantisMichael

11-15-06, 02:56 AM

My girlfriend just purchased a Pioneer Elite 43 " plasma that has the TVGOS system. I was doing some additional research into this unit and came across some interesting posts. They all had virtually the identical problems that I had with my Sony DHG unit when I first got it last fall. They also had gotten their plasma tvs with TVGOS around the same time. They reported freeze ups, dropped scheduled programs, etc.., in short pretty much all the same problems as I have seen reported here. So, logic would dictate that all along TVGOS has been to blame for most all the problems that we thought were due to the manufacture of the equipment.
My OTA TVGOS and my girlfriends basic cable and TVGOS has been stable for some time. I have not read of many reports lately of dropped scheduled programs or freeze ups and the like. So, I have to conclude that those who are having trouble with TVGOS and cable cards, that the cable companies are your source of your troubles. Put their feet to the fire to get it right.
I have had my Sonys now for aver a year and since about late spring, early summer, I have not had but one dropped scheduled program in that time. I think that is because of TVGOS and the upgrades that they must do.
All in all I am very pleased with these HD dvrs. I am OTA only so I have not had to shell out monthly rental fees as well as no monthly subscription bill for cable. Figured that these units have just about paid for themselves with what I have saved from not having cable.
Michael

hdaddiction

11-15-06, 07:51 AM

I currently have Cable Card on my TV and would like to know if I can just pull out the cable card and put it into my HDD500. Does it automatically detect it? TVGOS on my TV is working perfectly with the cable card, but I am hesitant as there has been a lot of posts about people have CC problems in the sony. thanks.

I have done that and it worked for about 3 weeks, untill the cc check the host ID and then it invalidated that card. However during that 3 weeks everything work and when you went to the cable card screen it would just show host unidentified. After the 3 weeks I had to call the cc and give them the new host ID number. They validated that and everthing is ok now.

HDAddiction

Mitch G

11-15-06, 09:24 AM

Hi -

Hopefully I can get an aswer to this problem I'm having. It's not with the TVGOS guide. Everything is working great, but I once I first went through the setup and started watching the Packers and Vikings game, the teams were a purple color. I turned off. The next day i turned it on...everything was fine for about 10 minutes then the purple color came back.

has anyone had this problem? The unit has the latest software on it. Thanks.

Are you sure it's not the TV? Have you tried connecting other devices to the same inputs on the TV to see if the problem arises?

Or, what about the cables? Try using different cables between the DVR and the TV.

If it is indeed the DVR, it sounds like something's broken.

Mitch

jhirsche

11-15-06, 10:27 AM

Well, upon further investigation last evening, I've come to the following conclusions.

It looks to me like I'm having two problem, both originating with Comcast.
1. When CC is not inserted, and no OTA analog signal is present, I cannot get any guide info via my Comcast cable host station, which is PBS ch22 here in Baltimore. In the diagnostic screens for the Sony, this channel is tuning as analog, so either Comcast is passing the digital signal from PBS as analog to end users like me, or their TVGOS computer is frozen/locked up/not working. Alternatively, I hooked up my Comcast cable feed into the Antenna input of the 500, did a channel scan, and came up with 13 channels: 2-13, and 24. So perhaps my PBS ch22 from Comcast isn't really analog, even though the Sony identifies it as such through the Cable input. If all sub-100 number channels are analog, shouldn't the antenna input on the Sony find them as such (like channels 2-78)?

2. Upon insertion of the cablecard, along with feeding the 500 the Comcast cable via Cable input, my PBS host ch22 shows up in the diagnostics as being QAM256. This tells me (from a lot of thread reading on other sites) that my Cablecard is "provisioned" for ADS - basically, all-digital channel transmission. Other users have had success with getting their TVGOS data by having comcast change their Cablecard provisioning back to analog, which results in the TVGOS data being seen on the analog channels if present. What tips me off that this is the cause of my problems is that when I have both Cable and OTA feeds hooked up to the 500, everything is fine (I get the TVGOS data via the OTA input) until insertion of the Cablecard, at which point the 500 looks for the host info from the Cable input/and or Cable ch22, which it cannot get b/c the cablecard and/or regular cable feed for host ch22 is either ADS, or provisioned as ADS, even though it is not.

Anyway, now that your head really hurts, here's the solution for me (the next trial). I will hook up both my cable and OTA feeds, and have Comcast re-install the Cablecard. Upon successful CC installation (which I've already had once) - I will see if the Comcast tech can call someone at the NOC and get my card to be provisioned as Analog instead of ADS only, which has been reported to fix this type of problem. Not sure if this is even possible (re-provisioning a CC from ADS to Analog), but after reading the contents of several other threads last evening where people had this same problem and this was the solution I think this will work for me. I'll let you all know if it works....

Thoughs anyone?

Oh, and BTW, I can post links to these other threads I found quite helpful in understanding my problem....

I say that it is a ComCast problem. Seems that this is not an isolated incident with ComCast as others have had similar problems in other cities. You should contact Comcast and find the right person to solve this problem. The cable companies are suppose to pass the TVGOS information per FCC rules. If they are not cooperative, then I would file a complaint ( probably should anyway) with the FCC and any other government agency (local, state, etc..) that oversees the cable companies. I think if the regulators get enough complaints about the cable companies, then perhaps the cable companies will be forced to deal with this issue. I noticed on the Gemstar site that TVGOS works with both Dish and Direct receivers.
Michael

I think I'm having a similar problem to "FanofHD" I believe that Comcast in Baltimore City is not passing the TVGOS data via my cable feed. Currently, the regular cable lineup (2-78) is still analog - so if they were passing the TVGOS data, I would most definitely be getting it. Here are some configurations I've tried with my 500 to make this determination:

Condition: 500 with only OTA antenna attached
Result: clock, channel list and TVGOS data fills within a few hours via PBS OTA channel 22

Condition: 500 with only Comcast cable feed hooked up (one splitter with good signal after)
Result: clock sets ok, no TVGOS data or channel list after 24hr waiting period - TVGOS menu actually says no data to display
Check: guide channel?

Condition: 500 with both OTA and cable hooked up:
Result: clock, channel list and TVGOS data populates within hours via OTA PBS channel 22

Condition: 500 with OTA and cablecard inserted
Result: clock ok, TVGOS data does not populate, but channel list is correct
Note: if cablecard is ejected and all else remains the same (cable and OTA) - guide data fills again within a few hours. Upon re-insertion of the cablecard, guide data stops populating after last good download w/o cablecard.

So what do you all think? Is Comcast of Baltimore City, MD not passing the TVGOS data on their cable feed? And if not, who do I contact to correct this? Comcast, Gemstar, both?

PhillyC

11-15-06, 10:57 AM

Not sure if this is even possible (re-provisioning a CC from ADS to Analog), but after reading the contents of several other threads last evening where people had this same problem and this was the solution I think this will work for me. I'll let you all know if it works....

Yes, your card can be remotely provisioned either way. But you are better off with ADS, in which case Comcast provides a single analog channel for TVGOS data. It's usually a duplicate PBS station and mapped to a channel in the 90's. Find out from Comcast where it is.

If you are using a Moto card, try to get a green one with firmware 4.21.

jhirsche

11-15-06, 12:04 PM

PhillyC -

Thanks for the help! It's your many threads elsewhere (ecoustincs.com, broadbandreports.com, here, etc) that helped me come to this conclusion. Interesting to note that when the CC is first inserted, my 500 notes that 350+ digital channels found, and 1 analog channel found. This must be the TVGOS guide channel....

The problem has been that my 500 doesn't get the guide data from this one analog channel, so either Comcast hasn't correctly implemented this single analog TVGOS guide channel (by just duplicating in analog form the content from the digital channel) or I need to remap this channel in the 500 (say my PBS channel 22 to whatever 90-some number this single analog channel is), or the TVGOS computer is down out there (at local PBS or Comcast?)

I know you were working with a tech from Comcast in Chicago that helped you solve this problem... any idea who would be able to help here in Baltimore? Do I need to speak with someone at the Comcast Network Operations Center, a Level ?? Comcast Tech, a Comcast engineer, or just a good ol' (usually) uninformed Comcast CRS?

Any help is greatly appreciated. My appt with a Comcast Cablecard tech is scheduled for Friday afternoon. Currently, both my cablecards are the Motorola purples (Cypher something...) Purportedly, the tech coming on Friday is bringing me two cards from a new batch that comcast is wainting on from Motorola....

Yes, your card can be remotely provisioned either way. But you are better off with ADS, in which case Comcast provides a single analog channel for TVGOS data. It's usually a duplicate PBS station and mapped to a channel in the 90's. Find out from Comcast where it is.

If you are using a Moto card, try to get a green one with firmware 4.21.

dp70

11-15-06, 12:37 PM

Thanks to a fellow AVS member, I'm finally set up with a second Sony box (a NIB HDD500), so I'm going to pull the HDD250 out of service and resume my work on replacing/upgrading hard drives. If anyone lurking here has made progress in that area, please get in touch.

Also, using a technique I described much earlier in this thread, I'll see if there are any 4-digit menu codes we haven't discovered yet.

spiff72

11-15-06, 01:10 PM

spiff72

11-15-06, 01:12 PM

PhillyC -

Thanks for the help! It's your many threads elsewhere (ecoustincs.com, broadbandreports.com, here, etc) that helped me come to this conclusion. Interesting to note that when the CC is first inserted, my 500 notes that 350+ digital channels found, and 1 analog channel found. This must be the TVGOS guide channel....

The problem has been that my 500 doesn't get the guide data from this one analog channel, so either Comcast hasn't correctly implemented this single analog TVGOS guide channel (by just duplicating in analog form the content from the digital channel) or I need to remap this channel in the 500 (say my PBS channel 22 to whatever 90-some number this single analog channel is), or the TVGOS computer is down out there (at local PBS or Comcast?)

I know you were working with a tech from Comcast in Chicago that helped you solve this problem... any idea who would be able to help here in Baltimore? Do I need to speak with someone at the Comcast Network Operations Center, a Level ?? Comcast Tech, a Comcast engineer, or just a good ol' (usually) uninformed Comcast CRS?

Any help is greatly appreciated. My appt with a Comcast Cablecard tech is scheduled for Friday afternoon. Currently, both my cablecards are the Motorola purples (Cypher something...) Purportedly, the tech coming on Friday is bringing me two cards from a new batch that comcast is wainting on from Motorola....

Have you been able to figure out where that analog channel is? If so, you might be able to map that channel number to that of your "normal" host channel. This has been mentioned before as a trick to get host data from one of these lone analog channel setups. (Actually heard that myself, straight from the TVGOS tech support line.)

jhirsche

11-15-06, 01:40 PM

spiff72

11-15-06, 02:17 PM

I wish i knew which channel is the "analog duplicate" of the regular host channel using my cablecard. Others here have stated that is usually lies within the 90-99 channel range when connected via cablecard. Is there anyway to tell (ie just tune into every channel between 90-99 and watch to see if they're PBS?) Or are these analog dupe channels not picked up by a channel scan/channel menu?

Thanks - Will report as I try to resolve this issue....

Yes, assuming that a PBS station is your host channel. You could also tune to each channel, and as you do, go into the Menu-Preferences-System-System (I think -- it is the uppermost pick twice after you go to the Preferences Menu). This will show you whether you are on an digital (QAM) or analog channel. Some of the channels you try will probably be reported as "Channel doesn't exist" or something like this.

plasmalover

11-15-06, 04:02 PM

I have done that and it worked for about 3 weeks, untill the cc check the host ID and then it invalidated that card. However during that 3 weeks everything work and when you went to the cable card screen it would just show host unidentified. After the 3 weeks I had to call the cc and give them the new host ID number. They validated that and everthing is ok now.

HDAddiction

I will give it a try and contact the TW afterwards.

PhillyC

11-15-06, 04:42 PM

jhirsche,

You might not see the duplicate analog channel if you remove the card. It depends on what Comcast is sending you. Someone at Comcast will know what the duplicate channel number is. Mine is 94. And yes --- if you can find that out, just go into the guide and map the digital version to the analog number.

Alternatively, you could tune to each channel 91-99 where you see a program and look at the diagnostics screen to see if it is analog. If there is no analog channel, complain to Comcast.

My HDD500 worked by doing the re-map as above after I knew which channel was the analog host. In my case, I mapped 11 digital PBS to 94 analog PBS. (The 753... info screen still retained the digital channel number, but everything worked properly.) So I can't say if a fresh setup will find the analog duplicate, although you would think so. I noted earlier that after getting my new 4.21 Moto card, the unit did NOT find this channel, but instead found CBS 2 OTA, even though I have no antenna connected!

I wonder if people with guide problems via cable should try this? Just selcect cable AND OTA during setup, even with no antenna. Maybe your unit will pick up an OTA signal good enough for guide data like mine did.

I don't know what the cable situation is in Baltimore, but they should know how this stuff works by now. Try going in person to a local office and speaking to someone or at least get someone to give your contact info to a tech supervisor. Remember, the problem will lie with Comcast 98% of the time. Good luck.

paula

11-15-06, 05:25 PM

I first went through the setup and started watching the Packers and Vikings game, the teams were a purple color. I turned off. The next day i turned it on...everything was fine for about 10 minutes then the purple color came back.

has anyone had this problem? The unit has the latest software on it. Thanks.

I would suspect the cable from your PVR to the TV. About once a month I have to wiggle the Y,Pb,Pr cables that have been slightly pulled out of their jacks by the weight of the cable.

walden1974

11-15-06, 06:12 PM

I would suspect the cable from your PVR to the TV. About once a month I have to wiggle the Y,Pb,Pr cables that have been slightly pulled out of their jacks by the weight of the cable.

Thanks for your answer. I'm not sure what to do. I don't have component cables connected..I have an HDMI cable connected.

What's strange is that the purplish color completely disappears when I switch from HD channel to an analog or SD channel. Is it possible that the HD Tuner is bad?

I hope not! Thanks for any input.

here's another symptom---
On the TVGOS guide, my thumbnail (top left corner) shows HD correctly (no purple tinge to it), then once I select an HD channel and go to the full screen...the screen is good for 2 seconds, then turns to black and then purple is back. Anybody had this problem before?

nevermind...we fixed it. There was a signal switch on the projector we were using. We had it on Component instead of AUTO. I guess it was looking for a component signal and we wereusing HDMI. Thankyou for your patience.

Lyca

11-15-06, 07:30 PM

I do not recall seeing any other post on your type of problem before.
Michael

Michael,
Thanks for looking. This puppy is going back to Sony. I spoke with a Sony Rep and received a WO #, return instructions, etc. It kind of sucks that I have to pay for shipping this thing back to Sony when it was purchased only 2 weeks ago but that's the price you pay when there are no replacements at any of the Circuit City locations around here...

Cliff_

11-15-06, 08:44 PM

When you redid the setup, you should have been presented with a list of cable services from which to select yours. Did you see that list? If you did, did you choose the digital service? If you chose digital service, all of the cable channels should appear on the guide, but the HDTV channel numbers will not work without a cable card. You need to find the numbers that do work, and edit them into the guide. If you can't get the hdtv channels to appear on the guide, you can edit in the HDTV channel numbers in place of the analog numbers. For example, if analog NBC is on channel 4, and you find NBC HD on channel 79.3, just change 4 to 79.3 using the edit mode. Your other option is to try antenna reception. YOu may get more channels with that option since cable doesn't carry every channel.

Ray

Yes i selected the digital lineup. I have no analog channel the same as a TVGUIDE substitude. Lets say Discovery HD. I have no listing for that. I know I can swap out the local channel that are in HD no problem but there are some other digital and HD channel with no listings.

I asked the question about getting a Cablecard and they someone told me here that the card still will have the TVGUIDE listings but not from the cable company. Will a cable card solve my problem? I don't want to go through the trouble of getting the cablecard if it won't solve my problem....

HELP!

Cliff

FanofHD

11-15-06, 08:55 PM

Have you been able to figure out where that analog channel is? If so, you might be able to map that channel number to that of your "normal" host channel. This has been mentioned before as a trick to get host data from one of these lone analog channel setups. (Actually heard that myself, straight from the TVGOS tech support line.)

I can confirm the above is correct information and works for me.

I spoke to TV guide today (they are very nice people to speak with and knowledgable about what is happening in your area) They have heard similar problems with Comcast changing their analog channels to digital. I told them the problems I have been having with my host channel on the Sony. I told them for the past 8/9 months everything worked perfect. I told them that Comcast was out to replace a defective card they gave me at their office. I told TV guide that when they came to re-install the cablecard and got everything working again (with the card) that Comcast told me in the past 2 weeks or so Comcast has been changing all their analog channels to digital. The Rep at TV Guide confirmed with me that for my area, Sunrise/Plantation that the host channel for guide data is PBS Ch 17 (WLRN) The Rep said that this station has all the equipment that they use to download the tv guide data and that this is an analog channel. I told the Rep that I knew this was my host channel because when I took out my cablecard, my Sony would pick up guide data within 6 hrs and showed the host as 17. I know for certain this is my host channel. The rep also said be careful cause other channels will pass the VBI but they are not your host, he stated again that Ch 17 for certain is my host for guide data.

Now, I told the TV Guide Rep that Comcast is changing to all digital, they stated that Comcast must tell you what dup Ch they are mapping to for analog, I told them I have spoke to so many people at Comcast and either they are all stupid and don't know what the heck I am talking about or they are just not providing it.

On my own I have found that Ch 97 is the duplicate channel the Comcast must be using. However it is a no signal channel but I am still somewhat confused about, TV Guide Rep asked me what the diagonstics were for ch 97, I said I can't check cause its a no signal channel.

MY SOLUTION: (with cablecard)
Monday morning at about 6:00 am I decided to go into Guide>Set Up>Edit Channel line up>then I looked for Ch 17 (PBS call letters WLRN) I then edited the channel from 17 to 97. When I got home from work Monday night I checked and low and behold I had guide data for 2 full days. The next day Tues I had data for another day, Today (Wed) I scrolled through the guide pressing the right button all the way through the guide each day till the very end of the guide and just like Spiff says on his website, my data is loading on day 7 and 8, so it is loading just like Spiff said, below is a copy from his website. SO...it appears that tricking the guide is working for me. I don't have data yet for the middle days but I am assuming I will within the next few days. But I have data for begining days and ending days just like below.

Spiffs Site:
This is how the TV Guide On Screen system works. You will receive the same 1,2,8 listings every night. The unit shifts the data every day and that is how the list is populated:

First DL: 1,2,8
Next DL: Day 2 moves to Day 1, a new Day 2 is downloaded, Day 8 moves to Day 7, a new Day 8 is downloaded.
The reasoning for this pattern is to reduce the amount of data sent, while still allowing program changes with 24 hours notice.
This progression continues until the list is populated and thereafter.

spiff72

11-15-06, 09:26 PM

...On my own I have found that Ch 97 is the duplicate channel the Comcast must be using. However it is a no signal channel but I am still somewhat confused about, TV Guide Rep asked me what the diagonstics were for ch 97, I said I can't check cause its a no signal channel...

I think that is very interesting information (not surprising, though). There doesn't have to be any programming on the channel for there to be useful VBI guide data. This is all the more reason that jhirsche should look at the diagnostic screen for each of the channels in that 90-99 range. It isn't the uppermost menu on the last screen as I said before. It is under Menu - Preferences - System - Diagnostics where you check for the type of signal.

paula

11-15-06, 09:59 PM

Anyone have an open Sony HDD250? I am looking for the board identification for the front fluorescent display board. The designation may be on this list.

H2 MOUNTED PC BOARD
H3 MOUNTED PC BOARD
H4 MOUNTED PC BOARD
H6 MOUNTED PC BOARD
A Board
TU Board
G Board

(Mark is going to look when he gets his open but I could use a quick answer if anyone has it.)

Thanks.

pedrojunkie

11-15-06, 10:46 PM

Can you get these things repaired or is it cost prohibitive/impossible? I just got a 250 off ebay and it just crapped out on me after 10 days. (it had a 7 day warranty) I figure I'm probrably hosed but before I shrug my shoulders and say doh I'd might as well ask.

Its not changing channels, its not responding to any button on the remote or face plate except for on/off. I've tried unplugging/replugging etc. can't really do anything else because the buttons all don't work. It worked fine for the first week, why couldn't it have crapped out then?

AtlantisMichael

11-16-06, 12:18 AM

pedrojunkie

11-16-06, 12:40 AM

You need to try re-setting the machine by simultaneously pressing the EXIT and TV GUIDE buttons on the front panel of the HD DVR.
Michael

Yeah I tried that trick too with no luck...

Stupid electronics...

dp70

11-16-06, 01:15 AM

pedrojunkie, a few people here have reported the whole face plate assembly coming loose in shipment. From the symptoms you describe (no front panel buttons working, no IR, etc.) it sounds like the front panel board may be partially disconnected. If the tuner appears to be functioning OK otherwise, then opening the unit and reseating the connections to the front panel might solve the problem.

FanofHD

11-16-06, 06:37 AM

I just checked my guide this a.m. and I have yet another day added to the front end of my guide data so I am populating as it should. I can't tell you how happy I am to finally have my guide data back, over 3 weeks without data and now it seems consistent. I just hope that tricking the system from 17 to 97 continues to work. This also confirms at least for me that the data is running through the channel destinated in your guide data cause when I changed my 17 (my true analog host) to 97 (since my Sony is showing my host is 97) then I magically got my guide data. I didn't think it was like that. I also know for a fact that with my cablecard Comcast changed 17 it to a digital channel.
If anyone else is having similar situation like me I would suggest to maybe try what I did to get your guide data back. Who knew that a simple procedure like this would get my data back so easily, just took me 3 weeks to figure it all out. You would think that Comcast would have mailed something to me with my cable bill that they are converting analog channels to digital in my area or the many calls I placed to them over this past 3 weeks they would have mentioned it.

pedrojunkie

11-16-06, 08:23 AM

jtbell

11-16-06, 08:30 AM

The TVGOS data is sent out in four duplicate three-hour chunks per day. I'm too lazy right now to get up, turn on my system, and call up the debug screens to check the exact times, but as I recall they start at approximately 2:15 am, 6:30 am, 10:45 am and 1:45 pm ET.

Now I've checked them, and my current download periods are:

2:31 am to 5:30 am
6:31 am to 9:30 am
9:46 am to 12:45 pm
1:46 pm to 4:45 pm

These are all Eastern Standard Time. I don't know if they're the same for all host stations, or adjusted for different time zones, or what.

There are other shorter downloads, but I think those have to do with determining the avaliable channel lineups for different cable providers in your ZIP code, and then providing the actual channel lineup (and keeping it up to date) after you've selected it. The three-hour ones update the program listings.

spiff72

11-16-06, 08:58 AM

That makes sense, though the display on the faceplate is working fine, are those seperate connectors? I'll open the thing up and check it out after work. Thank You.

Before you go tearing into your DVR...

Is the issue you are having just that you aren't getting any responses to front panel buttons and remote button presses? Will it rewind and fast forward, but you don't get any on screen menus? If these are the symptoms, then you probably need to just push the FORMAT button on the remote TWICE, and then pause for about 5 seconds to allow it to change formats. Keep cycling through the options until you get to either "SD out" - which is what you need if you are viewing the SD outputs (Composite or Svideo), or to one of the fixed or native resolutions (like 720p/1080i/Native/etc) for viewing the HD outputs. The on screen menus will not appear on the Component outputs or HDMI outputs if you have the FORMAT on SD Out, and the menus will not appear on screen if you are viewing the SD outputs like Composite and S-video if you have the FORMAT set to anything OTHER than SD Out.

pedrojunkie

11-16-06, 09:46 AM

Before you go tearing into your DVR...

Is the issue you are having just that you aren't getting any responses to front panel buttons and remote button presses? Will it rewind and fast forward, but you don't get any on screen menus? If these are the symptoms, then you probably need to just push the FORMAT button on the remote TWICE, and then pause for about 5 seconds to allow it to change formats. Keep cycling through the options until you get to either "SD out" - which is what you need if you are viewing the SD outputs (Composite or Svideo), or to one of the fixed or native resolutions (like 720p/1080i/Native/etc) for viewing the HD outputs. The on screen menus will not appear on the Component outputs or HDMI outputs if you have the FORMAT on SD Out, and the menus will not appear on screen if you are viewing the SD outputs like Composite and S-video if you have the FORMAT set to anything OTHER than SD Out.

I will check when I get home, my DVR is set up via Component cables currently. If I recall I wasn't able to change formats but I will double check that tonight. In addition to not bringing up the menu, I also wasn't able to change channels. Would that be normal for that situation? I suppose it would if the channels were locked in the tvgos wouldn't it? When I press up and down on the remote I'd just would be going up and down on the listings and not seeing it?

I'd feel really retarded if its something that simple... especially since this is my second sony...

spiff72

11-16-06, 09:58 AM

I will check when I get home, my DVR is set up via Component cables currently. If I recall I wasn't able to change formats but I will double check that tonight. In addition to not bringing up the menu, I also wasn't able to change channels. Would that be normal for that situation? I suppose it would if the channels were locked in the tvgos wouldn't it? When I press up and down on the remote I'd just would be going up and down on the listings and not seeing it?

I'd feel really retarded if its something that simple... especially since this is my second sony...

It is possible. Try pushing the Exit button on the remote to make sure that you are out of the menus. Then try changing channels. If it still won't switch channels, it probably isn't an issue with being set to the wrong format.

I can't remember if this DVR will revert back out of the menus after a while, or if it will stay there indefinitely (but with a screen saver kicking in).

jhirsche

11-16-06, 11:40 AM

I think that is very interesting information (not surprising, though). There doesn't have to be any programming on the channel for there to be useful VBI guide data. This is all the more reason that jhirsche should look at the diagnostic screen for each of the channels in that 90-99 range. It isn't the uppermost menu on the last screen as I said before. It is under Menu - Preferences - System - Diagnostics where you check for the type of signal.

spiff72..... been there, done that!

Here's what I did last night:

Hooked cable back up to cable input; inserted cable card, and checked the diagnostics in the menu of the 500 for every blank channel in my cable lineup between 1 and 100 (any channel Comcast currently isn't using for regular broadcast) Besides the no signal/no programming message when tuned to each one of these channels, each of these blank channels (just black screen) showed under the diagnostics as being QAM256 tuned.

Now, this may work once my Cablecard is "hit" or fixed again. Seems all this ejecting and reinserting my cablecard, along with swapping it out with the one in my TV, has caused both cards to lock back up (call your cable provider screen when trying to tune encrypted QAM channels.) Comcast comes tomorrow afternoon, and i will have them get both cards working again. both cards are the Motorola Media Ciphers, with the image being a green "earth" on a purple "space" background. Are these the notorious "purple" cards? should i see if they have the other cards people here have mentioned?

If these cards are both "provisioned" for digital only, would this cause the TVGOS guide data problems I'm having (similar to FanofHD)? Should I request my cards provisioning be changed to "analog" to solve this problem? [see my thoughts on this below in the "Of similar frustration" section] It's curious that with the cablecard ejected, all channels between 2-99 show up as analog, but upon CC insertion, these all tune as QAM256. Similarly, when i hook the Comcast cable feed into the antenna input of the 500, I receive only 13 analog channels, (instead of 78 total) which include 2-13, and 24. Is this due to the VHF/UHF frequency differences (as to why only 13 analog channels are tuned form my cable feed into the antenna port of the 500) or does this mean that Comcast has truly gone ADS on all those other channels in the 2-99 range....

I also read somewhere about people having problems receiving the TVGOS data when using both a cablecard and a Comcast rented Motorola DVR on the same "node." The fix for one person ended up being Comcast designating a new, second "node" so that each piece of equipment (Moto DRV and CC) had their own independent nodes? Any truth to this?

Of similar frustration is that when I have both OTA antenna and cable feeds hooked up to my 500 (without the CC inserted), the TVGOS guide date flows in fine on OTA PBS channel 22. As soon as I pop the cablecard in, the 500 no longer uses the perfectly good guide data coming through on OTA PBS ch22.) It instantly looks for the TVGOS data on CABLE ch22 - which isn't there (possibly because Comcast is rebroadcasting as analog a digital feed from PBS) This may be where a remap to a blank analog guide channel (somewhere in the 90's range) is necessary.

FanofHD: Does your new Cablecard TVGOS guide date channel 97 show up as "analog" or QAM256 when tuned to that channel and checking the diagnostic function of the 500's menu?

Whew.... thoughts? I guess I'll se what the future (appointment) hold for me....

jhirsche

11-16-06, 12:05 PM

jhirsche

11-16-06, 05:05 PM

wow... what did i say?

pedrojunkie

11-16-06, 05:48 PM

It is possible. Try pushing the Exit button on the remote to make sure that you are out of the menus. Then try changing channels. If it still won't switch channels, it probably isn't an issue with being set to the wrong format.

I can't remember if this DVR will revert back out of the menus after a while, or if it will stay there indefinitely (but with a screen saver kicking in).

And with a sheepish grin on my face I feel silly to report that that fixed everything...

Thank you

spiff72

11-16-06, 06:36 PM

wow... what did i say?
I don't have much of an answer for you...

If you aren't getting any channels to tune with the cablecard inserted, I think you need to wait until your cable appointment so they can get it working. Maybe things will go better after that...

grittree

11-16-06, 07:31 PM

You would think that Comcast would have mailed something to me with my cable bill that they are converting analog channels to digital in my area
Kidding, right? Having the customer know more than the CSRs!

sivartk

11-16-06, 07:37 PM

FanofHD

11-16-06, 07:59 PM

QUOTE from jhirsche, "FanofHD: Does your new Cablecard TVGOS guide date channel 97 show up as "analog" or QAM256 when tuned to that channel and checking the diagnostic function of the 500's menu?"

What's weird is even though I am getting guide data now. When I tune to Ch 97 it is a no signal channel (black screen) so when I attempt to do the diagnostics it doesn't work, the moment I press the Menu button to get to the diagnostics screen the channel 97 changes back to the prev channel I was watching. It won't stay on that ch. So the answer to your question is I can't check it so I really don't know but I am assuming it is more than likely an analog channel seeing that I do have Ch 96 and 95 that are signal channels that show the word future by Comcast that are also black channels with no picture but they are signal channels and I checked those 95 and 96 and they are both analog ch when I check the diagnostics. So I am assuming my ch 97 is also analog.

Let me also clarify that my host is for certain ch 17 and last week when I had the card out my Sony showed my host as 17 and I had guide data within 6 hrs, but when I re-inserted the cablecard the next day the Sony was showing my host as Ch 97 and I try forcing the host for many days back to ch 17 and it would NOT force it keep saying Ch 97. I will also say that I checked the diagnostics WITHOUT the cablecard for Ch 17 and it shows analog (of course as I got data within 6 hrs) then when I inserted the cablecard and checked the diagostics for ch 17 it shows QAM. So Comcast is providing my host 17 as analog without a cablecard and with a cablecard they are changing that station 17 to a digital channel and therefore my Sony was not getting any guide data at all.

So since I knew all this, I went into the guide and changed ch 17 to ch 97 sorta tricking it, and the next morning I had data. I really did not think something like this would work but it did and is still working each day with new data. I swear Comcast is stupid because they told me twice 2 diff people that if you have a cablecard you will not get tv guide data, I said then why did I get it for the past 9 months and all of a sudden I stopped getting it, they cant answer me. Then when I had the tech from Comcast out the other day that is when I found out that they are changing there analog ch's to digital he said they did this within the past 2/3 weeks. The moment he said that I knew this was probably my problem why I had not had guide data for the past 3 weeks.

I hope this helps others. If you can find your true host station and find the ch it maps when you use a cablecard and then switch those channels in the guide listings might help, it's helped me.

Mitch G

11-16-06, 08:54 PM

How "good" does the analog host channel reception have to be in order to download the TVGOS. Mine disappeared (and the reception on that channel isn't very good) and I'm wondering if this is the reason.

I was doing some work in the attic last weekend (right before it happened) and may have slightly moved the antenna.

Did you have good reception before the alleged attic incident? If so, then that's probably the problem. That said, someone reported that they were able to get the guide data OTA on a channel that was nothing but ghosts - he didn't have an antenna but lived in the city near the transmission tower.

sivartk

11-16-06, 10:07 PM

Did you have good reception before the alleged attic incident? If so, then that's probably the problem. That said, someone reported that they were able to get the guide data OTA on a channel that was nothing but ghosts - he didn't have an antenna but lived in the city near the transmission tower.

I think that was the issue. I did have "decent" (I.e. would hold the signal) reception before.

With a little help tonight, I climbed in the attic and repositioned the antenna while a helper viewed the channels (2 way radios come in handy). I now have good reception of the local PBS (before it would flash "no signal" every few minutes). I turned on the HDD250 and magically the guides listing was populated :confused: Before repositioning the antenna the guides listing simply said to wait 24 hours for an update. I didn't expect to see anything so soon.

jhirsche

11-16-06, 10:39 PM

FanofHD - who told you your guide channel was channel 97? Or is that the channel your Sony DVR was trying to get guide data from with your CC installed? I understand that you remapped your channel 97 to channel 17, and that fixed the problem. So with the CC in, was the Sony looking for guide data on 17, or 97?

As for everyone else - I had a little humble pie for dinner tonight, along with a K.I.S.S. Seems as though the TWO inline 3-way splitters, cable running through surge protector, and 150+ foot cable run off the pole (broken by Comcast with a 3-way splitter about half way down the run at 75ft) was causing some of the many issues for me. MY DVR is now getting TVGOS guide data soley from cable, and here's how I got it to work:

I moved the DVR to my bedroom TV, and hooked up only the cable input directly to a 30ft RG6 lead coming right off the first 3-way splitter that Comcast put on my cable feed about 75ft down the wire off the pole outside. I ejected the cablecard, did the TVGOS setup, and left the whole thing off today. Well, guess what? TVGOS guide data came streaming through today over my cable channel 22, which is analog without the Cablecard inserted. So this is great. Tomorrow, the cablecards go back in, and hopefully the Comcast tech will know what Cablecard channel is the analog dupe to channel 22 - because I already know it'll go QAM with the CC inserted.

As for the crumby setup, I'm going to request that Comcast fix the poo-poo install job they did before - removing the three way splitter and possibly shortening the ridiculous cable run they've put on the side of my house (apt bldg...) Is it typical for installers to split the cable on the outside of the house for me to share my service with someone else? I know they did it, b/c there's a Comcast ID tag crimped on the cable coming from the splitter and going into my neighbors apt. Do you guys think I should install a signal booster of some type? If yes, any recomendations on those?

Thanks - I'll let you know how I make out tomorrow with Comcast. I'll be up to 3 cablecards, the Sony DVR, and the Comcast DVR between just two HDTV's (a Sony KD-34XBR960 and a Sony KD-30XS955)

FanofHD

11-17-06, 06:38 AM

blackjackmark

11-17-06, 08:11 AM

Looked in the manual to determine how much cleareance is recommended, and it stated that it should always be either horizontal or vertical..not on an incline.

Never occcurred to me that it'd be OK to stand it on end...but then again, most PCs can do that, so it shouldn't affect the hard drive.

ANyone gone vertical with it? By doing so, it'd allow me to better use the space that it'll be located in.

jtbell

11-17-06, 08:19 AM

How "good" does the analog host channel reception have to be in order to download the TVGOS.

The TVGOS data is carried by a similar mechanism to the closed captions, so my guess is that your reception has to be good enough that you can receive closed captions reliably.

cxgy

11-17-06, 08:23 AM

I did an experiment last night and it proves how the TVGOS works! Thank you to the person who figured out the host channel nonsense - it now all makes sense!

My host channel is CFTO - Air 9.1 Cable 13. Since Air 9.1 is digital, the box uses Cable 13. So last night..I told it that CFTO is Cable 35 - not Cable 13. (Cable 35 is PBS Buffalo). Well - lo and behold it loaded some of the US stations that CFTO doesn't give info for but PBS does!!!!! This proves several things that happened to me during the past month...

1. When I entered in my initial postal code, it acquired the proper host.

2. When I manually changed my host station's channel number in the guide to digital channels (9.1 Air and 82.13 Cable) - it stopped updating !!! I did not know this!

3. Your host's channel number in the guide must be analogue.

4. Yes, you can force the host channel by simply changing the channel in the TVGOS Channel Setup table. Order of channels and on/offs remain intact (though I'm guessing that if you do get any extra new stations, they will be out of order).

That's why I lost guide data for a couple of weeks. Leaving the cable channel as analog 13 is required. It also explains why several times after changing the zip code, the guide updated on Day 1 - and then never updated again. Also note - it doesn't matter if the channel is turned on or off in the TVGOS - nor whether it is included in the tuner channel +/- list.

I'm going to try to swap back & forth between Canadian and American host channels for the next few days and see how well that works. I am a happy camper - I understand how it all works now. Maybe a FAQ is in order.

spiff72

11-17-06, 09:46 AM

... Maybe a FAQ is in order.

You mean like this one?

www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html

;)

gigaguy

11-17-06, 10:53 AM

My cableco is coming out to try to fix one of my cablecarded 500s. In one 500 I have, it works fine, but in the other it will not tune the upper tier HDs like HBO, Discovery anymore, or SD HBO. (picture sometimes comes up but freezes).
It won't record the network HD channels that DO tune in. I push record, the red button shows up and then goes off. It will record SD channels both analog and digital.

This all started when I unplugged my 500 a week ago, when I resetup I couldn't get any TVGOS data. I started getting data after I did everything I knew, but basically I'm thinking that removing the cc and putting it back in fixed my TVGOS block. It's kind of confusing now, not sure if it is the cc causing these problems or my 500 is faulty. Fortunately I have a 3rd 500 I will put in today if the cable guy can not get the current one to work right, to see if it is my machine of just the cc.
The cableco also told me they were having a 'system problem' with ccards and did a system 'update' a few days ago. But my other ccard never had any problem.

I will probably stop using ccard if I have any more problems. Mostly because the cableco requires a service visit (hassle) for anything ccard related. It may just need a remote re-initialization but they won't do it, service call only. I thought I had messed up my machine when I unplugged it but now I think the ccard is either faulty or just needs to be reset. If this happens everytime I unplug the machine or it loses power I will say bye bye to cc. My other 500 is working perfectly with the same set up.

sorry, if this sounds tedious, it's frustrating not knowing if I caused this problem when I unplugged and plugged back in too fast, if the cableco 'system' problem caused it, if my machine is damaged? I lost all my recordings cause I reformatted, Before that I tried forcing host, did 9012 and 753 menus a few times, resetting TVGOS many times, unplugged. removed cc. My machine has had a workout!

Now I'm shopping for a new AV cabinet and this will mean I will have to unplug the 500 again and reset up. Then it may need another service call to re-initialize the CC? Now I'm looking at AV cabinets where the back slides open, then I can just insert the 500 in the cabinet without unplugging cable or power from the wall. Why were these discontinued again....?

cxgy

11-17-06, 12:20 PM

You mean like this one?

www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html

;)

No.. I mean a new "Frequently Asked Question" (or several) encompassing some of the new info that has been discovered over the past couple of weeks. Such as..
"How does the unit determine what host channel to use?"
"Can I force a new host channel without having to re-enter setup and thus lose my channel order?"
"Can I trick the unit into using a distant host channel not associated with my zip code?"
...etc.

Would be useful to newcomers so that they don't have to pull out their hair like a lot of us already have. Would be much appreciated spiff I'm sure! Thanks.

spiff72

11-17-06, 01:34 PM

No.. I mean a new "Frequently Asked Question" (or several) encompassing some of the new info that has been discovered over the past couple of weeks. Such as..
"How does the unit determine what host channel to use?"
"Can I force a new host channel without having to re-enter setup and thus lose my channel order?"
"Can I trick the unit into using a distant host channel not associated with my zip code?"
...etc.

Would be useful to newcomers so that they don't have to pull out their hair like a lot of us already have. Would be much appreciated spiff I'm sure! Thanks.

I think a lot of this stuff is in there is some shape or form, but I will admit that it isn't perfectly organized. I might put a note in there about mapping the known host station to use a channel like 97 when you are "all digital"...

I could update the FAQ, but I am not clear myself on the answers to the above questions...

On another note, someone sent me a link to another thread with a TVGOS Training manual. Looks like a very nice find!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8916254&&#post8916254

paula

11-17-06, 01:39 PM

"How does the unit determine what host channel to use?"
"Can I force a new host channel without having to re-enter setup and thus lose my channel order?"
"Can I trick the unit into using a distant host channel not associated with my zip code?" ...etc. Would be useful to newcomers so that they don't have to pull out their hair like a lot of us already have. Would be much appreciated spiff I'm sure! Thanks.

Um . . it's in there. I've had a wry smile on my face as I have read the recent TVGOS threads. "These are people like me, I thought "They half-read the FAQ and then reach for the remote."

My suggestion: Print out Spiff's excellent FAQ and leave it in the bathroom. Works for me!

ChrisS5

11-17-06, 01:45 PM

AtlantisMichael

11-17-06, 03:01 PM

PhilB

11-17-06, 03:45 PM

He further stated that the issue lies in the firmware/hardware, and that no upgrades or fixes are planned or will be available. After the cut-off, TVGOS will not work for us.

It sounds like on February 17, 2009 we all need to call Sony customer support to report non-functional products.

-phil

cheneyp

11-17-06, 03:56 PM

It sounds like on February 17, 2009 we all need to call Sony customer support to report non-functional products.

-phil

Well, there's more talk of extensions of this deadline so who knows??

sivartk

11-17-06, 04:34 PM

He further stated that the issue lies in the firmware/hardware, and that no upgrades or fixes are planned or will be available. After the cut-off, TVGOS will not work for us.

Can we still receive clock data? Without the Data/Time, the unit becomes a ATSC tuner that can pause/record TV. No timed functions at all. Will be fine in my home theater (it is the tuner) will be worthless in the living room (TV already has a built in ATSC tuner).

ChrisS5

11-17-06, 04:54 PM

Can we still receive clock data?

The implication was no data at all.

cosmicvoid

11-17-06, 05:30 PM

Can we still receive clock data?The implication was no data at all.I am currently doing some research into putting together a little VBI XDS generator with an analog modulator, to generate the Autoclock signal. So there might be a way to at least have time set.

gigaguy

11-17-06, 06:16 PM

Cableguy put in a new cablecard, but that did not fix it, same problem, will not tune the pay tier HD channels or any HBO. No one he called could fix it, basically he told me to rent a cableco box, since cablecards are 1 way they can not diagnose them or work on them. I had to get back to work so he said give it some time, sometimes it takes 24 hours to load all the channels, yea right.

I may try the 3rd 500 I have but it's a toss up whether they will pair up the card with the new 500 over the phone. I ran out of time and patience to do that today.
This is my last service call, takes too much time to deal with. I just wanted some more HD channels but I'll be happy with just the network HDs.

I'll probably move my working 500 w/cc and all channels I pay for from the bedroom to the livingroom, and move the cripplecard one to the bedroom.
If the cablecos could get more money out of cablecard they would work perfectly or give better service IMO.
thanks for listening. yea I know now about moving them, wait and go slow.

AtlantisMichael

11-17-06, 07:46 PM

On another note, someone sent me a link to another thread with a TVGOS Training manual. Looks like a very nice find!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8916254&&#post8916254[/QUOTE]
Yes, quite a find. Wish we had it sooner. I ran throught it, has a lot of good information.
Michael

bretski

11-17-06, 08:31 PM

The implication was no data at all.

Well that sucks. In spite of its quirks, I love my HDD500...and I'm the type that tends to keep electronic equipment for ridiculous periods of time. Hell, I still have a DVD player from May of 1997... :D

TheRatPatrol

11-17-06, 08:56 PM

Well that sucks. In spite of its quirks, I love my HDD500...and I'm the type that tends to keep electronic equipment for ridiculous periods of time. Hell, I still have a DVD player from May of 1997... :D
Yeah it does. But maybe by then they'll have a new one out, with dual tuners.

Oh, I have a Kenwood stereo from 1986, back when every component was separate, even the remote control unit. :D

cxgy

11-17-06, 10:44 PM

Um . . it's in there. I've had a wry smile on my face as I have read the recent TVGOS threads. "These are people like me, I thought "They half-read the FAQ and then reach for the remote."

My suggestion: Print out Spiff's excellent FAQ and leave it in the bathroom. Works for me!

Yes of course a lot is there. Sniff's FAQ is excellent and I've read it over and over with a fine tooth comb...but some new stuff has been discovered. The force host channel in the FAQ is risky and didn't work for me. Changing the channel number mapped to the host station in the TVGOS channel list is an easier way of doing it without upsetting your current channel lineup and channel numbers.

Also..the fact that you will get NO updates if you assign the host station associated with your zip code a digital channel in the TVGOS channel list is an important piece of information that was never clearly stated before. The fact that you can control what air or cable channel TVGOS uses to update its guide info by simply changing the channel mapping in the TVGOS channel list was also never clearly stated before (just look back at all the posts of people trying to "force" host channels and having no luck). Now we know the secret.

spiff72

11-17-06, 11:51 PM

Also..the fact that you will get NO updates if you assign the host station associated with your zip code a digital channel in the TVGOS channel list is an important piece of information that was never clearly stated before. The fact that you can control what air or cable channel TVGOS uses to update its guide info by simply changing the channel mapping in the TVGOS channel list was also never clearly stated before (just look back at all the posts of people trying to "force" host channels and having no luck). Now we know the secret.

The tough part of this mapping trick is that the DVR needs to have a host channel displayed in its diagnostic menu. If it is blank, I don't know if this trick will work.

I am updating the FAQ to add a third section called "Tips and Tricks". I am adding info in there to say you must not assign a digital channel to the host station in the editor, and I mention the above trick. I preface both of these by saying that you need to know who your host channel for your area is.

Hopefully this clarifies things! (There was a reference to the fact that the guide data comes from an analog broadcast, but there wasn't mention of the remapping).

cxgy

11-18-06, 10:46 AM

I can also confirm that you can get 2 different uploads from 2 different host stations within a 24 hour period.

For overnight yesterday, I assigned my host CFTO Cable 13 in the TVGOS channel list to get the Canadian upload...then assigned CFTO Cable 35 to get the American upload from WNED-PBS during the afternoon. I now have a combined set of guide listings from both host stations so that I have no missing listings (ex.- CFTO does not list WNLO-The CW but WNED does..meanwhile WNED does not list CITY but CFTO does, and so on. The wife likes seeing WNED-HD have listings for a change).

Now if I could only automate the switching back from Cable 13 to Cable 35 each day and then I'd really be in luck! :rolleyes:

tony7

11-18-06, 03:03 PM

Hey All,

I just bought the Sony 250. Installed it via HDMI to my Sharp Aquos and OTA. All it does is the green Sony screen comes up, then it acts like it is looking for channels, but I never get the TVGOS screen, it only gets up to 6, then it powers itself off. Powers itself back on, and all I get is a fuzzy green screen with no SONY symbol on it that blinks off and on. Any suggestions?

Erik Garci

11-18-06, 03:45 PM

Also..the fact that you will get NO updates if you assign the host station associated with your zip code a digital channel in the TVGOS channel list is an important piece of information that was never clearly stated before.
That happened to me once a few months ago. I was getting Guide data for months, and then it just stopped. I was not sure what caused it to stop, but I had recently changed the host channel from analog to digital in the editor, so I changed it back to analog, and the Guide data started working again.

Erik Garci

11-18-06, 03:50 PM

I am currently doing some research into putting together a little VBI XDS generator with an analog modulator, to generate the Autoclock signal. So there might be a way to at least have time set.
Do you think it would be possible to make a box that extracts TVGOS data from a digital channel and then generates that exact same data on an analog channel?

Erik Garci

11-18-06, 04:10 PM

Also note - it doesn't matter if the channel is turned on or off in the TVGOS
Are you sure about that?

The TVGOS Training Manual seems to state otherwise. On page 23 it states: NOTE 2: In cases where there are both NTSC (analog) and ATSC (digital) for broadcast stations, it is tempting to remove the NTSC “version” from the listing grid and leave only the ATSC “version”. This action can have undesired effects, since the TVGOS could “lose” the Host channel. Sine the TVGOS data is only transmitted in the NTSC signal, the Host channel is an analog broadcast. We suggest that if a user wishes to remove the NTSC “version” of a possible Host channel, they instead move the channel to the bottom of the listing grid. This will result in the analog listing not normally seen but, the TVGOS data transmission will not be interrupted.

kwg

11-18-06, 05:04 PM

tony7

11-18-06, 05:25 PM

Try the [FORMAT] button on the remote.

Did that. Set it up for the same as my tv and still nothing.

cosmicvoid

11-18-06, 06:11 PM

Do you think it would be possible to make a box that extracts TVGOS data from a digital channel and then generates that exact same data on an analog channel?Possible? Of course. Likely? No. I thought about this idea myself. However, it would require having the complete specification for each of the two TVGOS data protocols, and I don't think Gemstar would allow that information to go public. If you can snag the protocol data sheets, I will impliment a convertor box.

Even having the protocol for just the analog downloads would be useful, as other EPG sources online could be mined for the listing data, and then reformat it for TVGOS VBI insertion.

cxgy

11-18-06, 08:07 PM

Are you sure about that?

The TVGOS Training Manual seems to state otherwise. On page 23 it states:

Yes. Despite what the manual says, it seems to work with the host station turned "off" in the TVGOS - as I've had my cable version of CFTO turned off for 2 weeks now since my last zip code setup - it's the one I've been swapping back & forth between Cable 13 and Cable 35. I do have the air version of CFTO "on" - but it's mapped to digital 9.1.

FanofHD

11-18-06, 08:13 PM

Are you sure about that?

The TVGOS Training Manual seems to state otherwise. On page 23 it states:
"We suggest that if a user wishes to remove the NTSC “version” of a possible Host channel, they instead move the channel to the bottom of the listing grid. This will result in the analog listing not normally seen but, the TVGOS data transmission will not be interrupted. "

Erik, Can you explain that? Move the channel to the bottom of the listing grid? Is this talking about moving the position of the host channel from say position 100 in the listings grid to the last position say 285 (or whatever the number postion is for your's)

Dont really understand that could you explain? Thanks

cheneyp

11-18-06, 08:19 PM

"We suggest that if a user wishes to remove the NTSC “version” of a possible Host channel, they instead move the channel to the bottom of the listing grid. This will result in the analog listing not normally seen but, the TVGOS data transmission will not be interrupted. "

Erik, Can you explain that? Move the channel to the bottom of the listing grid? Is this talking about moving the position of the host channel from say position 100 in the listings grid to the last position say 285 (or whatever the number postion is for your's)

Dont really understand that could you explain? Thanks

In the channel editor, move your host channel to the very bottom of the listings. That way, you won't have to see it. Out of sight, out of mind if you will. That way, the channel is not turned off but it doesn't show up in the first 20 pages or so of your guide.

dp70

11-18-06, 08:34 PM

hdaddiction

11-18-06, 08:57 PM

I spent a good portion of this morning on the phone with an engineer from TVGOS. We were troubleshooting a problem that Mitch G and I are currently having receiving guide data. I took the opportunity to ask the engineer about the upcoming analog cut-off, and how it would affect our equipment. I was told that our equipment is version 8 (G4), and there is a version 9 currently being produced. Also there is a version ten in the works. I was told that some version 8 equipment would be able to make the transition to digital, but unfortunately our equipment was not part of it. The version 8 equipment that can make the change is version .65 and higher. We have .42 in the Sony. All version 9 equipment will be able to make the change. Version ten will no longer use a video signal, but rather a dedicated broadcast.

He further stated that the issue lies in the firmware/hardware, and that no upgrades or fixes are planned or will be available. After the cut-off, TVGOS will not work for us.

Well, on the surface that seems very bad. However, it was a tvguide eng that was speaking for sony. We have yet to hear Sony's side of this. However, given that there are relatively few sony dvr's out there there must be a ton of tvguide tv's out there that must have a fix or something. Product obsolescence in three years will cause a large dissatisified customer base. And quite a class action, if possible.

Is there that much demand for the airwaves to warrant stopping the analog signal? Is there any commonality between this and AM/FM radio?....

HDAddiction

cosmicvoid

11-18-06, 10:59 PM

So the FCC is yanking the VHF spectrum, and selling it. All the digital TV stations will be on UHF frequencies (?). I confess I'm not really familiar with all the changes that will take place, but I'm wondering if analog TV broadcasting (OTA) will be forbidden or just optional. It's conceivable that one UHF analog station in each market could be operated by Gemstar, just for the purposes of delivering analog VBI legacy support for all the earlier (non upgradable to digital) TVGOS containing equipment (VCR, DVDR, TV, etc). It might could be a low power station, say on channel 69. I don't know that Gemstar has a financial reason to do such a thing, but it would keep the older equipment alive for TVGOS.

I guess an alternate approach would be for Gemstar to build an ATSC to NTSC converter for their listing services, and sell them to owners of legacy TVGOS equipment.

Just some thoughts.

spiff72

11-18-06, 11:10 PM

sivartk

11-19-06, 12:08 AM

I didn't think that all the digital stations would be on UHF. In my market (Grand Rapids, MI), we have digital channels on VHF 2 (WWMT) and VHF 7 (WOOD). My understanding is that WWMT will be moving to VHF 8 after the shutoff, and WOOD will keep their assignment. Is it possible that just the LOW VHF (2-6) are being reallocated?

They are not selling off any VHF frequencies, only upper UHF (channel 52 and up). This Post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=752296) I put up in the DVD Recorders forum may help.

jtbell

11-19-06, 07:26 AM

So the FCC is yanking the VHF spectrum, and selling it.

No, they are not. Channels 52-69 (the top of the UHF range) are going to be sold off for other purposes, so any stations (analog or digital) that currently use those channels will have to move. Channels 2-13 (VHF) will still be allocated for TV. In practice, few stations will use 2-6 (low VHF) because those channels are especially susceptible to impulse noise which can easily wreck digital TV reception. On the other hand, 7-13 (high VHF) will be widely used because VHF transmitters require much less power than UHF for the same coverage area, and impulse noise isn't as much of a problem for those channels. Between the four cities whose stations I can receive at least sometimes, all the high VHF channels will carry digital signals after analog shutdown. (fortunately only one station per channel!)

I'm wondering if analog TV broadcasting (OTA) will be forbidden or just optional.

It will be forbidden. Even the low-power translators that stations use to extend coverage in mountainous areas have to convert to digital.

I guess an alternate approach would be for Gemstar to build an ATSC to NTSC converter for their listing services, and sell them to owners of legacy TVGOS equipment.

Technically, I suppose it could be done. It would have to receive the antenna signal via a coaxial input, locate the (digital) channel that contains the TVGOS data, extract it, encode it in the "old style" onto an analog signal that mimics an analog channel, mix it in with the incoming antenna signal, and send the result out via coaxial output which could then be connected to the target device's antenna input. It would be a lot of engineering work for a rather small market. How much would we be willing to pay for something like this, if new DVRs were available for, say, $400-500?

hdaddiction

11-19-06, 10:20 AM

Hmmmm, I guess if the tvgos is gone feb10, 2009, those that bought extended (4 year warranties) last year maybe ok, as you bring those into bestbuy in March of 2009 and complain that the tvguide no longer works they will have to either refund your money, apply the purchase price to a new unit or send it to sony to fix (which maybe not be able to be done).

On another topic, I find it incredible that no other mfg if making dvr's. I mean if you look at how popular vhs' players where, how comes there is not one dvr out there? Have they gone to the dvr/dvd market?

HDaddiction

sivartk

11-19-06, 11:02 AM

On another topic, I find it incredible that no other mfg if making dvr's. I mean if you look at how popular vhs' players where, how comes there is not one dvr out there? Have they gone to the dvr/dvd market?

It's our fault -- the consumer -- we as a group choose to rent DVR's vs buying them outright. If an HD DVR cost $800 + $15 a month (I.e. TiVo Series 3) and the cable companies are charge $5 a month for a similar device, which is more cost effective? For anyone with cable/satellite, the $5 month will last a long time before you have paid for a HD DVR (remember the Sony's listed for $800 & $1000 when new)

If you use OTA only, like me, your choices are very limited and there are currently no current products to meet my needs (record HDTV and playback in HD). Will the new set of ATSC DVD recorders that come out next year be able to record HD to the hard drive and then down convert to burn to DVD? That is a question that needs to be answered.

TheRatPatrol

11-19-06, 11:24 AM

On another topic, I find it incredible that no other mfg if making dvr's. I mean if you look at how popular vhs' players where, how comes there is not one dvr out there? Have they gone to the dvr/dvd market?
Well Sony does have a new one out in Japan. Not sure if it'll get here in the U.S. or not.

I agree though, there needs to be more selection then just the high priced $800.00 Tivo, or what the cable and satellite companys offer. We need to have a DVR (like the Sony's) to be able to record free OTA HD signals without having to pay a price or fee for it.

I just hope those new DVD players that come out next year have dual tuners. :D

FanofHD

11-19-06, 11:29 AM

Well I hate to report that I have lost TV Guide data once again. For the past 4/5 days it worked by changing Ch 17 to 97 in the guide listings since my Sony is showing Ch 97 as the host with my cablecard. I can't understand how I could get guide data for 4/5 days and then it all of a sudden stop. I am now back to No Listings. Yes I have left DVR off during download times.

Spoke to Comcast again and they have confirmed that Ch 17 my local host for TV Guide data is still an analog channel with Comcast however with digital pkg and cablecard they have "Converted" the analog signal to a digital one (rep) kept saying it is still an analog channel but the only the signal has been converted to digital one. I keep telling Comcast that this is my problem why I stopped getting the free TV Guide downloads from Ch 17 because their signal converted from analog to digital. Told them that by law they are required to provide a analog duplicate ch if they have converted their signal to digital. Comcast said they still have Ch 17 as an analog ch it's only the signal that is converted.

So I am back to No Listing and I assume it wil always be like this by using a cablecard. Noone wants to take ownership of this problem. TV Guide says to call Comcast, Comcast says they don't work with TV Guide and not affliated with WLRN PBS Station about their TV Guide.

So round and round in circles I go. On well. I guess I will always have to manually set up recordings and consult my paper TV guide for listings.

Orlando Doug

11-19-06, 02:46 PM

I am new to the forum and have found lots of great info in past posts. I have a 500 unit and it works great here in Orlando! Bought a 250 for my Dad in Phoenix and have a problem.

It is set up for OTA only - no cable, 30 miles from transmitters, all digital stations work great. Can't get any analog station to tune in - none! Initial channel scan shows both analog and digital stations - in fact many analog stations show up on the channel list with the correct call letters, but when you tune them in, no signal - just black.

Of course the TV Guide won't download either, even with forcing the host station to ch 8, the PBS station. The host station info is blank when we do the "753..." screens.

We tried to do a reset (holding the front panel exit and TV Guide buttons) but it won't even reset. Any thoughts? Do I have a bad unit?

Mitch G

11-19-06, 05:52 PM

Gemstar would surely sue anyone who successfully reverse-engineers their EPG transmission protocols, as that would jeopardize their entire business model based on licensing to OEMs. The later protocols must be non-trivial or else we'd be seeing all sorts of cheap non-licensed Chinese products already supporting them.

Something else to think about- why not add the missing network components to the DHG-HDDx00 mainboard (apparently omitted late in the game) and have the DVR fetch a web-based program guide, reformatting it as needed internally... assuming someone figures out how to get into the software, build a kernel with network support, etc.

If no patents are infringed upon, reverse engineering a product and selling it is perfectly legal. That's the trade-off between patenting something and keeping it a company secret. For example, someone can reverse engineer the Coke recipe and sell a product based on that reverse engineered recipe.

I agree that an IP-based product would make more sense if/when the analogs are turned off. It's just a question of whether or not such a conversion product would or could be cost effective or it'll just be easier/cheaper to buy a new DVR.

The fact that TVGOS is thinking about the future as such is very good news for us cheapskates who don't want to submit to Tivo fees. It says to me that they have a business model that is sustainable. So, I gotta think there'll be options when the great digital switch is thrown.

Mitch

Mitch G

11-19-06, 05:57 PM

FanofHD

11-19-06, 06:24 PM

I feel for ya - having ridden on that merry-go-round for a couple of months myself. You say you changed the channel from 17 to 97 - do you mean in the TVGOS channel listings? What if you change it back to 17?

Mitch

Yes in the TVGOS channel listings and when I did that I had listings for about 3 days and then it stopped.

What I did this morning was change 17 (my local PBS host station) in my listings to 4 (which is an analog station) to see if I will get listings that way. I checked a few hours later and got the screen to wait 24 hrs since I changed my set up, so we will see tomorrow. I know for a fact that my problem is Comcast re-broadcating 17 analog signal to digital with my cablecard and therefore the Sony can't find 17 since it is now digital, the Sony is mapping it to 97 as host so that's why changing 17 to 97 worked for me at least for a couple days and then stopped. A Comcast supervisor was suppose to call me today after speaking to the rep there but of course noone ever called me. I hate that I know what the problem is but I can't seem to fix it. ,

Ray1938

11-20-06, 01:56 AM

Ray1938

11-20-06, 02:22 AM

I find it incredible that no other mfg if making dvr's. I mean if you look at how popular vhs' players where, how comes there is not one dvr out there? Have they gone to the dvr/dvd market?

HDaddiction

Most people who own VHS cassette players never recorded anything; they just used the device in play mode. Those are the people who would likely have difficulty using the Sony DVR without the guide.

With respect to cost, the Sony DVR is cheap compared with the Blue Ray DVR. Not only is the unit expensive, but the disk doesn't hold very much compared with the DVR. Also, at Circuit City price for cheaper Blue Ray disk is $20 so i assume Blue Ray will also be used for play only.

ChrisS5

11-20-06, 07:24 AM

Yes. Despite what the manual says, it seems to work with the host station turned "off" in the TVGOS - as I've had my cable version of CFTO turned off for 2 weeks now since my last zip code setup - it's the one I've been swapping back & forth between Cable 13 and Cable 35. I do have the air version of CFTO "on" - but it's mapped to digital 9.1.

I have to agree with cxgy. No matter what the TVGOS manual says, it does not seem to work that way on my Sony DVR. The channel does not need to be turned on to receive data.

I have been working with a TVGOS engineer to troubleshoot a problem that I am having receiving guide data. It has been determined that the data on my primary host channel is corrupted. The TVGOS engineer has suggested turning off the primary host channel in the listing as a way of forcing the DVR to reset to a new (secondary) host channel. For three days I have still been receiving data from the primary host channel, even with it turned off. The system has not looked for a new channel because it is still receiving data.

FanofHD

11-20-06, 08:07 AM

I suggest you try this: split the cable signal with a high quality 2x splitter. Connect splitter outputs to the cable and antenna inputs. The recorder will seek out the guide data from the antenna input. If the guide data doesn't appear, repeat setup to choose both cable and antenna options. I'm certain that this method was posted on this thread many moons ago.

Ray

Ray, thanks I am going to try this. I already have a 2x splitter one to my Sony one to my TV so I can have dual tuner:
1. After I get data how long do I leave it plugged to the antenna input
2. If always, then would I need to get a 3 X splitter so I can hook back to my TV? Or unhook it from antenna after I get a weeks of listings?

Thanks

PhilB

11-20-06, 09:58 AM

On another topic, I find it incredible that no other mfg if making dvr's. I mean if you look at how popular vhs' players where, how comes there is not one dvr out there? Have they gone to the dvr/dvd market?

HDaddiction

Here's a possibility. It will reportedly be at CES in January. Not much is known about it (like how much, where the guide data comes from, if it will ever even make it to market, ...) but it does have a compelling feature list.

http://www.ubicod.com/Product01.htm

-phil

thewarm

11-20-06, 10:10 AM

I was watching an old Godzilla flic, and the display only showed "Godzilla vs."..., then I discovered a new trick/tip for the display (on the unit itself) during playback. If the program title it too long, hit the TV Guide button twice. This will make the display scroll the entire title! ;)

TheRatPatrol

11-20-06, 10:16 AM

Here's a possibility. It will reportedly be at CES in January. Not much is known about it (like how much, where the guide data comes from, if it will ever even make it to market, ...) but it does have a compelling feature list.

http://www.ubicod.com/Product01.htm

-phil
Sounds interesting. How wonder how much its going to cost?

cheneyp

11-20-06, 10:23 AM

Here's a possibility. It will reportedly be at CES in January. Not much is known about it (like how much, where the guide data comes from, if it will ever even make it to market, ...) but it does have a compelling feature list.

http://www.ubicod.com/Product01.htm

-phil

This IS interesting. Not all that familiar with the "emerging IPTV applications".

kwg

11-20-06, 10:39 AM

Erik Garci

11-20-06, 01:31 PM

Here's a possibility. It will reportedly be at CES in January. Not much is known about it (like how much, where the guide data comes from, if it will ever even make it to market, ...) but it does have a compelling feature list.

http://www.ubicod.com/Product01.htm

-phil
The specs do not mention a QAM tuner (which would imply that it does not have a CableCard slot either).

spiff72

11-20-06, 02:30 PM

The specs do not mention a QAM tuner (which would imply that it does not have a CableCard slot either).

The part about IPTV applications doesn't make this very promising either. Looks like an internet appliance for TV delivery plus an OTA tuner.

cxgy

11-20-06, 02:44 PM

In the TVGOS channel list.. I changed my usual host CFTO Cable 13 to its digital channel 82.13 (thus no more guide data). I changed CFTO Air from its usual digital 9.1 to 17 (WNED-PBS). The guide then uploaded just fine with American data from WNED-PBS.

This new test proves that you can force the unit to use ANY analog cable or air host station you want on the fly..without ever having to change your zip code. Just adjust the channel numbers of the original host chosen by the unit on your last zip code setup to whatever new host channel you want to use. To force cable only..enter a digital channel for air. To force air only..enter a digital change for cable.

If you are having issues with your local host, you can now easily switch to the next nearest host station on a temporary or permanent basis without messing up your setup.

It's feels so good to finally have total control of the host station selection.

spiff72

11-20-06, 03:16 PM

Ray1938

11-20-06, 05:25 PM

Ray, thanks I am going to try this. I already have a 2x splitter one to my Sony one to my TV so I can have dual tuner:
1. After I get data how long do I leave it plugged to the antenna input
2. If always, then would I need to get a 3 X splitter so I can hook back to my TV? Or unhook it from antenna after I get a weeks of listings?

Thanks

Since the antenna input supplies the guide data, you will need to keep that connection in place so you will need to install a 3x splitter.

I assume you know that unlike a VCR, you can simultaneously watch a recorded program while recording another one. That is the way I view programs, including the evening news. I assume there must be some people who don't know that the DVR can do this.

Ray

Bill R (# 2)

11-20-06, 07:40 PM

Since the antenna input supplies the guide data, you will need to keep that connection in place so you will need to install a 3x splitter.

Ray

And since he needs to split the signal three ways I recommend that he use an 4 port RF distribution amp instead of a splitter.

Rammitinski

11-20-06, 07:59 PM

That happened to me once a few months ago. I was getting Guide data for months, and then it just stopped. I was not sure what caused it to stop, but I had recently changed the host channel from analog to digital in the editor, so I changed it back to analog, and the Guide data started working again.Yep, I also reported this as the source of my guide problems, which went on for a couple of months, many pages back. I actually discovered it matter-of-factly, as you did.

(I guess some of the newer posters don't read past a page or two back - if even that :rolleyes: .)

jhirsche

11-20-06, 10:45 PM

well all - promised to report back after my apptmnt with Comcast to have the CC installed in my 500 "hit" again

after nearly 2 hrs with 2 Comcast techs who admitted this being their first CC installation, we got the CC working again in my 500.

now onto the TVGOS data problem.... I did a full reset of the 500, making it necessary to go back through the inital setup of the TVGOS system. After reading over the recently linked TVGOS training manual linked to on this thread, I decided to change my zip code to the "first" zip code of my major metro area (Baltimore) which is 21201 (I'm in 21217) No sure if this did the trick, or something else, but my TVGOS data seems to be here to stay, streaming in via my antenna input from OTA PBS ch22 WMPT, for both my antenna and CC channel lineups. Its just strange that the analog channel is now the permanent host channel with the cable card installed, whereas after the first cablecard install, the host was switched by the unit from OTA ch22 to cable channel 22 (which is digital on with CC.) perhaps a signal strength issue with the OTA reception strenght?

who knows, but for now its working.... hope for a smooth ride through the next couple of years up to the analog cut off....

Thanks all!

Ray1938

11-21-06, 12:55 AM

And since he needs to split the signal three ways I recommend that he use an 4 port RF distribution amp instead of a splitter.

I have three way splitter, which was installed by cable tech, and signal strength is high. He is better off without an amplifier unless signal strength is too low. He can find that out by checking signal strength on the system menu.

Ray

FanofHD

11-21-06, 08:04 AM

I have three way splitter, which was installed by cable tech, and signal strength is high. He is better off without an amplifier unless signal strength is too low. He can find that out by checking signal strength on the system menu.

Ray

Yeah my signal strength is high (checked that) so I think just the 3 way will work for me.

Last night about 6:30 pm I did as you said this morning I still have --:-- no clock guide says No data for this screen. I also did the auto scan for antena and it found the analog channels. I thought this morning I would have something. Now I'm worst off with no clock and no guide. I looked to see what my host channel is saying in the Sony and it is blank, first time I have ever seen it blank before. How long does it take when you connect splitter outputs to the cable and antenna inputs before you start to see something either clock or guide data?

Ray1938

11-21-06, 12:07 PM

Yeah my signal strength is high (checked that) so I think just the 3 way will work for me.

Last night about 6:30 pm I did as you said this morning I still have --:-- no clock guide says No data for this screen. I also did the auto scan for antena and it found the analog channels. I thought this morning I would have something. Now I'm worst off with no clock and no guide. I looked to see what my host channel is saying in the Sony and it is blank, first time I have ever seen it blank before. How long does it take when you connect splitter outputs to the cable and antenna inputs before you start to see something either clock or guide data?

I assume you did more than add the splitter since that change wouldn't affect the clock. If the unit was off overnight, the clock should have been set. Did you repeat the setup and choose both cable and ota? If you didn't, the unit probably ingnores the ota input since it was setup for cable only.

Ray

rcrach

11-21-06, 01:49 PM

AtlantisMichael

11-21-06, 02:07 PM

You may not need to do that Mark. Gemstar is making a good faith effort to maintain their service after the 2009 cutoff. I hope this attaches, it does not show in preview.
Yes, your attachment works. I have been saying all along that with the transition that D/A boxes would be available. And with these we will still get what we are now getting in the way of TVGOS, close caption, etc. There is no way that all the analog tvs will be just "doorstops" along with all the other analog devices out there when OTA analog broadcasts cease. Just because all the stations will be digital, does not mean all the tvs, vcrs, etc will be at that time. The VBI information lines will still be needed for those analog sets.
Michael

ps: Perhaps we should have a separate thread for this issue? This is not only a Sony DHG issue anyway.

swestbom

11-21-06, 02:56 PM

Miglia TV MiniHD HDTV Tuner. (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/Miglia-TVMini-HDp1.php)

acribb

11-21-06, 04:35 PM

Has anyone figured out a way to archive the data saved on the hard drives in the 500? Has anyone tried to hook up an ide cable to the hard drive and see what's on it?

PhilB

11-21-06, 06:08 PM

You may not need to do that Mark. Gemstar is making a good faith effort to maintain their service after the 2009 cutoff. I hope this attaches, it does not show in preview.

rcrach,

Do you mind telling us how you came about this document? Are you somehow affiliated with Gemstar? Can you tell us if there is a specific D to A product in development which will created the required VBI stream?

Thanks,

-phil

rcrach

11-21-06, 07:59 PM

rcrach,

Do you mind telling us how you came about this document? Are you somehow affiliated with Gemstar? Can you tell us if there is a specific D to A product in development which will created the required VBI stream?

Thanks,

-phil

No affiliation, just good search skills, but I can't remember the exact criteria. It was probably something with VBI, 2009, and Gemstar in it. I really wouldn't worry about it, in 3 years there will be something out there to record OTA broadcasts, bigger, faster, better. In spite of what the cable and satellite guys would have you believe broadcast television isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

FanofHD

11-21-06, 08:00 PM

I assume you did more than add the splitter since that change wouldn't affect the clock. If the unit was off overnight, the clock should have been set. Did you repeat the setup and choose both cable and ota? If you didn't, the unit probably ingnores the ota input since it was setup for cable only.

Ray

Yes I chose both in the setup, waited overnight and next day I have nothing, No Clock or Data.

I feel like I'm back to square 1. :( I'm going to go back to what I had before, take the cablecard out and put it back in, reset the tv guide to factory default and change set up back to what I had cable only. I'll see what I have tomorrow.

hdaddiction

11-21-06, 08:41 PM

You may not need to do that Mark. Gemstar is making a good faith effort to maintain their service after the 2009 cutoff. I hope this attaches, it does not show in preview.

Now that is very interesting news. Gemstar has a vested interest in continuing to support the analog signal for the EPG. Its interesting the NTIA supports the inclusion of such software.

Careful reading of the doc indicates that this a good possibilty.

Perhaps writing the office of NTIA indicating support for EPG and continued functionality would be productive by all forum members.

HDAddiction

PS It would be interesting to hear tivo/replaytv version of this.

hdaddiction

11-21-06, 09:11 PM

PhilB

11-21-06, 10:11 PM

PS It would be interesting to hear tivo/replaytv version of this.

Since Tivo and ReplayTV use the internet/phone lines to upload EPG data, they aren't dependant on NTSC for broadcast. However, since they only record NTSC signals (except for the new Tivos) they do have issues when Feb 2007 comes around.

-phil

PhilB

11-21-06, 10:14 PM

Hmm, now I'm confused. Assuming you get a converter box that has the EPG/tvguide on line incorporated. And now that signal is converted to analog, how would you get the digital signal? Or would just the EPG guide be converted and digital past through? Or would past throught analog epg and digital?

HDAddiction

I would assume that the box would implement a low passs filter to remove the upper UHF from the antenna input and inject the EPG data somewhere in that range. I think the designer would have to be careful if the D to A is put inline between the antenna/cable box and the DVR to make sure that it doesn't broadcast back up the coax. I assume the FCC would have an issue with every TVGuide household becoming a low power broadcaster.

-phil

frank70

11-21-06, 11:07 PM

I would assume that the box would implement a low passs filter to remove the upper UHF from the antenna input and inject the EPG data somewhere in that range. I think the designer would have to be careful if the D to A is put inline between the antenna/cable box and the DVR to make sure that it doesn't broadcast back up the coax. I assume the FCC would have an issue with every TVGuide household becoming a low power broadcaster.

-phil
Even if such a box went this far (i.e.: existed solely for reconstructing and injecting one analog channel with VBI from guide info received digitally), one would still need to purchase such a converter box for what would otherwise be a totally digital system, just to cope with its need for analog guide delivery. I find it much more likely that Gemstar is simply trying to target converter boxes feeding a totally analog (i.e. legacy) system that incorporates TVGOS - not one like the DHG-HDD.

audiorecon

11-22-06, 12:07 AM

I am having an issue where my programs are cutoff. I saw some earlier postings. Is there a way to offsett the end time without affecting adjecent recordings?

TheRatPatrol

11-22-06, 12:11 AM

I am having an issue where my programs are cutoff. I saw some earlier postings. Is there a way to offsett the end time without affecting adjecent recordings?
As long as your trying to not record 2 shows back to back you can.

*EDIT* Go into the "schelude" list and highlight the show you want to add time to.
Press the "menu" key.
*EDIT* Look on the left side of the screen and scroll down to "edit recording" and press select
scoll down to "end time" and add time to it by pressing the right arrow key.

If you're trying to add time to a show and you have another show starting right after it, I guess you could have one show end late and the other other show start late.

Hope this helps.

Ray1938

11-22-06, 01:56 AM

Yes I chose both in the setup, waited overnight and next day I have nothing, No Clock or Data.

I feel like I'm back to square 1. :( I'm going to go back to what I had before, take the cablecard out and put it back in, reset the tv guide to factory default and change set up back to what I had cable only. I'll see what I have tomorrow.

If you get the clock with cable only and no card, then the only reason you can't get it with the splitter is due to a missing step in the setup process. Did you do an antenna input scan? The DVR searches for the guide signal on both cable and antenna inputs if the unit is set to receive both.

Ray

FanofHD

11-22-06, 08:29 AM

If you get the clock with cable only and no card, then the only reason you can't get it with the splitter is due to a missing step in the setup process. Did you do an antenna input scan? The DVR searches for the guide signal on both cable and antenna inputs if the unit is set to receive both.

Ray

Thanks will try again, I thought I did it. I'm so bummed cause my date / clock is at 01/01/04 with wrong time. I wanted to record the Macys Day Thanksgiving Parade since I will be on the road during that time and now everythings messed up, argh!!

jtbell

11-22-06, 09:24 AM

I find it much more likely that Gemstar is simply trying to target converter boxes feeding a totally analog (i.e. legacy) system that incorporates TVGOS - not one like the DHG-HDD.

That's my take on the situation, also. In order for this to work, the converter box has to have an RF output that can be connected to the target device's antenna/cable input. The big question is, would this output carry only a single channel with the Gemstar data, or would it also pass through the other RF channels that enter the converter box? If it's the second option, we're home free. If it's the first option, we'd have to first split the incoming coax and send half to the converter, then recombine the signals before entering the Sony.

jtbell

11-22-06, 09:29 AM

If you're trying to add time to a show and you have another show starting right after it, I guess you could have one show end late and the other other show start late.

Exactly. Before you add time to the first show, you have to "make room" for it by making the second show start recording later. Otherwise the unit tells you that you have a conflict, and asks you if you want to "record anyway?" (the first show, that is). If you answer "yes", that completely overrides the recording of the second show.

hdaddiction

11-22-06, 10:42 AM

That's my take on the situation, also. In order for this to work, the converter box has to have an RF output that can be connected to the target device's antenna/cable input. The big question is, would this output carry only a single channel with the Gemstar data, or would it also pass through the other RF channels that enter the converter box? If it's the second option, we're home free. If it's the first option, we'd have to first split the incoming coax and send half to the converter, then recombine the signals before entering the Sony.

I went on the NTIA website and read the comments. I was looking for TV makers comments in particular and only found one, LG who supported the legacy issue of passing the EPG through. (I guess if you bought one of their 60 plasma's with the built in DVR with the guide, you would be beside your self if after '09 it did'nt work).

I hope and think that in 09 we will be supported. Hopefully it won't be that big of deal. And would;'nt that be sweet to know that your sony dvr will work well into the future?

Again, commenting to the NTIA to support the legacy tv guide and closed caption is a good idea.

HDAddiction

hdaddiction

11-22-06, 10:44 AM

Thanks will try again, I thought I did it. I'm so bummed cause my date / clock is at 01/01/04 with wrong time. I wanted to record the Macys Day Thanksgiving Parade since I will be on the road during that time and now everythings messed up, argh!!

Can you not still record it? Pick the mid time, and have it start 90 mins early and run 90 mins late?

HDAddiction

WS65711

11-22-06, 10:45 AM

Exactly. Before you add time to the first show, you have to "make room" for it by making the second show start recording later. Otherwise the unit tells you that you have a conflict, and asks you if you want to "record anyway?" (the first show, that is). If you answer "yes", that completely overrides the recording of the second show.

Yeah, except if the second show is on a different channel than the first. :eek: :eek: :eek:

hdaddiction

11-22-06, 10:47 AM

[QUOTE=. I find it much more likely that Gemstar is simply trying to target converter boxes feeding a totally analog (i.e. legacy) system that incorporates TVGOS - not one like the DHG-HDD.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand your comment, how is the DHGHDD different from the legacy tvgos. They specificallly mentioned dvrs in their comment. I think the software in the sony is what makes the tvguide work with the dvr, but I would hope the guide is the guide.

HDAddcition

rcrach

11-22-06, 02:17 PM

That's my take on the situation, also. In order for this to work, the converter box has to have an RF output that can be connected to the target device's antenna/cable input. The big question is, would this output carry only a single channel with the Gemstar data, or would it also pass through the other RF channels that enter the converter box? If it's the second option, we're home free. If it's the first option, we'd have to first split the incoming coax and send half to the converter, then recombine the signals before entering the Sony.

By definition the converter box has to have tuner and a single D/A converter. Simply put, you tune to the channel you want to watch, the box demodulates the signal to the TS stream, downrezs it and converts it to analog then modulates it out on channel 3 or 4 (or what ever is defined). This is the cheapest way to do it and cheap is going to be the operative word. In order to use this with any TVGOS legacy equipment you would need an RF switch like they used to have for video games and switch it to the converter output when you turn off your DVR/TV or whatever to receive the guide, then switch it back to your direct antenna input when you turn the TVGOS box back on. The converter hardware that needs to be added injects the guide data into the vertical interval in the analog video signal before modulation.

Erik Garci

11-22-06, 04:09 PM

In order to use this with any TVGOS legacy equipment you would need an RF switch like they used to have for video games and switch it to the converter output when you turn off your DVR/TV or whatever to receive the guide, then switch it back to your direct antenna input when you turn the TVGOS box back on.
Would the switching be automated? That is, would it automatically switch to RF signal #1 (the analog guide channel) when the DVR is not recording a show, and automatically switch to RF signal #2 (cable/OTA channels) when the DVR is recording a show? If it is not automated, then it would probably be too inconvenient and prone to mistakes.

hdaddiction

11-22-06, 05:38 PM

Would the switching be automated? That is, would it automatically switch to RF signal #1 (the analog guide channel) when the DVR is not recording a show, and automatically switch to RF signal #2 (cable/OTA channels) when the DVR is recording a show? If it is not automated, then it would probably be too inconvenient and prone to mistakes.

Automated? I will be trilled if I am able to use the guide, much less "automated"....
I will go out on a limb here, your asking way too much.

HDAddiction

frank70

11-22-06, 06:58 PM

I don't understand your comment, how is the DHGHDD different from the legacy tvgos. They specificallly mentioned dvrs in their comment. I think the software in the sony is what makes the tvguide work with the dvr, but I would hope the guide is the guide.

HDAddcition
The majority of legacy tvgos equipment, be it tv receiver or dvr, has only an NTSC tuner and would become otherwise useless in an all-digital post 2009 environment. Read that "large market" with large potential profit.

The Sony DVRs have NTSC and ATSC (and QAM) tuners, as do I would imagine digital TVs with tvgos. All of those would work perfectly well in the all-digital enviroment if their tvgos were capable of capturing the EPG from either analog VBI or a digital stream (PSIP or dedicated.) Read those that can't (i.e. DHG-HDD*** and kin) as a "tiny market" for a box, not worth the R&D investment.

True, you could buy a box meant for the other market, leave it tuned to your host station and on all the time, then creatively split and combine signals to get an approximation of what you really want, but only the most tech-savvy will attempt this and even fewer will succeed.

I'm still hoping the Sony 1.2.13 firmware has the hooks built in to let some future version of tvgos access the EPG (PSIP or dedicated) from a digital host station; I don't think anybody has either confirmed or denied that yet.

sivartk

11-22-06, 07:23 PM

frank70

11-22-06, 09:09 PM

The version 8 equipment that can make the change is version .65 and higher. We have .42 in the Sony.

Emphasis Added

But where do we find this equipment version number for the Sony DHG-HDD250/500? That is... is it true that ALL versions of the Sony firmware through the latest fall into this class, or only the original version? Can this so-called equipment version be read out anywhere?

I am aware that there is a Sony firmware version (mine = 1.2.13) and a TVGOS firmware version (my "current" version = 08.06.30), but have not seen a version number that specifically identifies the equipment and/or its limitations.

speedlaw

11-22-06, 11:25 PM

We keep seeing 2009 as the analog cut off date.

Forgetting our wonderful HDD units (where's the HDD with a Blu Ray burner for archives ?), it is highly unlikely analog is dying soon.

Sure, the govt. gave out a "free" digital channel to the stations who already have the most prime radio real estate ever.

Yes, laws have been passed to require ATSC tuners in most TV's, and I have recently seen a lot of SD sets with ATSC tuners too !

But, when it comes time to give up the best radio frequency ever, the stations, with their money and influence, will balk.

News stories will run about those too poor to make the transition. Money will flow through the usual lobbying channels. Possibly a few veiled threats about coverage in elections.

Buried in a bill that "must Pass" for other reasons, the shut down will extend a few more years.......when you look at the value of the analog channel, there's a lot of money available for buying influence. This is NOT about technology, folks...most TV watchers know where the channel switch, on/off and mute buttons are, and are scared to adjust the picture-with no idea how to delete the channels they don't get. (kinda like drivers who know gas and key, the rest being a mystery)

Meanwhile, there will be more and more HD equipment bought. Save the folks on this website, only half of those sets now get any sort of HDTV signal.

I'm guessing maybe 2015....by which point all of our units will be paperweights or used as tuners only......but I doubt our investments are going bad anytime soon.

I once worked in the maintence office of a 25 building complex in NYC. The worst phone calls were not for puking toilets, no, they were for the times the centralized CATV system went down....I heard from many, many people, and when the problems took most all day, the phone rang off the hook as I left at 5, with some really nasty messages the next morning...all for TV. I can't imagine doing this on a nationwide basis.

Meanwhile, my HDD's purr along on the shelf, and my TV time is now 100 % content, 0% filler :) :)

Ray1938

11-23-06, 12:05 AM

But where do we find this equipment version number for the Sony DHG-HDD250/500? That is... is it true that ALL versions of the Sony firmware through the latest fall into this class, or only the original version? Can this so-called equipment version be read out anywhere?

I am aware that there is a Sony firmware version (mine = 1.2.13) and a TVGOS firmware version (my "current" version = 08.06.30), but have not seen a version number that specifically identifies the equipment and/or its limitations.

The Sony firmware update is only for TV compatibility. TV guide features, for a given version, are common to all manufacturer's equipment under license to TV guide. Also, I believe that there is a TV guide furnished device built into this equipment that processes the guide data. Therefore, only thing Sony can do is to put pressure on TV guide since it has no control of the guide features.

Also, subtitles, clock data, and I assume other stuff is transmitted in the same manor as guide data, and analog devices will continue to need this stuff after analog tv goes away.

I believe that it is more likely for the hard drive to fail before analog reception goes away. Perhaps at the time the HD is replaced, Sony can drop in a new tv guide device.

Ray

Ray1938

11-23-06, 12:21 AM

There is a new HDTV recorder that gets its guide from the net, allows you to set a recording from the web, and automatically skips commercials on playback - and no monthly fees. Also many other interesting features.
Take a look:
https://monolithmc.com/viewproduct.php?p_id=4

Ray

Mitch G

11-23-06, 12:43 AM

ChrisS5

11-23-06, 09:39 AM

AtlantisMichael

11-23-06, 09:43 AM

Well, after a long, long time, my 250 did some magic. Medium that was scheduled dropped out last night. Law and Order CI popped up on Tuesday night out of the blue. Law and Order SVU popped up on Saturday. I know that there is an episode for that night, but I did not have the recorder set for either of these shows in any form, that is, off, ???, etc... I do schedule them each week, but this week I took them off so I could record Warplanes on digital 21.3, a PBS station. Also, ER disappeared from Thursday. Have reset all, so I will see if anything happens again.
One other thing that has been going on for a while is missing listings for Sunday.
Has been happening for several weeks. They only come back the day before. Now I have Sundays in the lineup, but Mondays are now missing. Will assume that by Sunday these will be back. Have not contacted PBS channel 8 yet on this.
Anyone else having the same or similar problems in the Atlanta area or elsewhere?
Michael

sivartk

11-23-06, 09:57 AM

Buried in a bill that "must Pass" for other reasons, the shut down will extend a few more years.......when you look at the value of the analog channel, there's a lot of money available for buying influence. This is NOT about technology, folks...most TV watchers know where the channel switch, on/off and mute buttons are, and are scared to adjust the picture-with no idea how to delete the channels they don't get. (kinda like drivers who know gas and key, the rest being a mystery)

Do you have a link to this bill and the current status? I haven't heard anything about a new bill extending the cut off date past 2/17/2009. Nor when I searched the library of congress (http://www.thomas.gov/home/c109query.html) did I find anything other than S.1932 which clearly states the 2/17/2009 date.

AtlantisMichael

11-23-06, 10:08 AM

I personally think people should just relax and sit tight for a couple more years, say until 2009 or so, before they start worrying if their DVR will be useable when the cutover occurs. So much can change between now and then, that it's not worth the wrinkles.

Mitch
Have to second this. By the time the change over occurs on 09, my two units will have only cost me less than $25.00 a month. Compare this to having to subscribe to either cable or dish to get your HD content and DVR. On the low side of the equation, you would spend around $2500.00 up to $5000.00+ on the high side for the same time frame. And remember, HD DVRs for either are just now out on the market. I know I will have gotten my monies worth out of these units. I know some of you already have cable, so your only other cost is the upgraded service and equipment rental, which by the way is subject to increases. Still, all in all not a bad investment. And for those lucky ones who only paid $250.00 for their units, assuming 2 units and 36 months of service, that works out to less than $14.00 a month. Plus no additional taxes or increases.
Michael

TheRatPatrol

11-23-06, 11:10 AM