I personally find my recorders with TVGOS (DVRs and DVD recorders) lifesavers from the drudgery and control the cablecos force on consumers. These recorders have been extremely productive for my needs. The less interaction I have with the cableco the better. It is always a major frustration dealing with them.

I have had a few issues with my 2 DHG-HDD500s, (I also have the Sony RDR-HX715 DVD recorder- 160g hd w/TVGOS), but these have been freedom machines for me.
I'm enjoying them before the cablecos totally take over.


I concur. I have had my 250 since November and had issues twice; the last time was when tvgos was updating the unit and I started to receive advertisements. I am strictly ota here in LA, but I haven't been cursed with any of problems that beset many when the commercials started to flow. I recently noticed that most of the the subchannels (such as 28.2 etc) are now included. I would definitely consider this to be a good purchase.

Additionally, the concept that we have three companies Sony, Gemstar and a television station (for data transmission) means that corrections to problems border on the impossible. When I am reduced to calling TV stations and explaining transmission technicalities - something is drastically wrong!




I'm sure that a number of us can add the additional layer of a cable company as well. This brings the total up to four companies!

Not too long ago I had a problem receiving the TVGOS signal, and I am thoroughly convinced that the issue rested with the cable provider.

This is just a fleeting thought:

Is it possible that your cable company - Bright House Networks- very recently converted your host's station's analog signal (WFYI 20)
into a digital signal? You can check this out by going to the Sony's Menu-Preferences-System-Diagnostics and where it says modulation, see if it says analog or QAM. If it says QAM, with the cable card inserted, they changed it into a digital signal for those subscribers with cablecards, and you won't get guide data or the correct clock. ....

So this morning I've still got no clock. I did the above diagnostics and confirmed the host channel remains Analog (PBS Channel 20 here). No VBI packets are coming through.

Interestingly, my DVD player/recorder was able to set the time from the TV signal. I ensured that the time on it was cleared (unplugged overnight), plugged it in and started it up. It reported no time, then within a minute set the correct time automatically. Maybe there is a secondary channel that can be used to set the time... I poked around last night looking for channels with useful VBI packets without finding any. A couple channels had a few packets (probably CC) but none helped set the time on the DVR.

I sent a message to WFYI asking them if they had a problem. The initial response (from a real live person!) was that they didn't believe they were having issues but they would check with the engineering group to double check.

Hmmm. Later today I'll try a pair of rabbit ears and see if I can see VBI packets on channel 20 from OTA, but if my DVD-R is getting a time signal, why isn't the Sony?

Marc

So this morning I've still got no clock. I did the above diagnostics and confirmed the host channel remains Analog (PBS Channel 20 here). No VBI packets are coming through.

Interestingly, my DVD player/recorder was able to set the time from the TV signal. I ensured that the time on it was cleared (unplugged overnight), plugged it in and started it up. It reported no time, then within a minute set the correct time automatically. Maybe there is a secondary channel that can be used to set the time... I poked around last night looking for channels with useful VBI packets without finding any. A couple channels had a few packets (probably CC) but none helped set the time on the DVR.

I sent a message to WFYI asking them if they had a problem. The initial response (from a real live person!) was that they didn't believe they were having issues but they would check with the engineering group to double check.

Hmmm. Later today I'll try a pair of rabbit ears and see if I can see VBI packets on channel 20 from OTA, but if my DVD-R is getting a time signal, why isn't the Sony?

Marc


If the 753.... screen of Sony's TVOSG shows your host as 20 and the clock set channel also shows 20, then my guess is that there is some problem at the PBS station. If the host channel and clock set channel are blank that might also confirm a problem at the station or is it possible that the PBSstation has decided to stop
carrying the Gemstar data? Just a thought. If you are successful finding another analog channel in your area sending out VBI data packets, then you could force the host to that channel. Your idea of rabbit ears will also help pinpoint the problem if it lies at the station.

I have two Sony 250's and I totally agree with you about the few issues I've had with them. When I purchased my first I didn't get the TVDOS to come. I was on the phone with Sony and they had me return the unit. It was upgraded and I still didn't get the guide. After spending sometime on the phone with TVDOS I tried a zip code for a different area. Guess what, I got the guide for that area. The PBS station for Beaufort, SC was over in Pembroke, GA and we have a PBS station in this area. I contacted Ga PBS to find they were operation at low power and their transmitter was over 60 miles away. After proving this to TVGOS month later I was able to get them to switch my zip code to the local PBS station in the Beaufort area. I have had no problems since. Those of you who are experiencing no guide, try different zips for other coverage area and see if a guide comes up for that area. Then you will know where the problem is.

I also have a cable card in my first unit and after Charter installed it, it has worked very well.

If the 753.... screen of Sony's TVOSG shows your host as 20 and the clock set channel also shows 20, then my guess is that there is some problem at the PBS station. If the host channel and clock set channel are blank that might also confirm a problem at the station or is it possible that the PBSstation has decided to stop
carrying the Gemstar data? Just a thought. If you are successful finding another analog channel in your area sending out VBI data packets, then you could force the host to that channel. Your idea of rabbit ears will also help pinpoint the problem if it lies at the station.

Hednic,

Interesting. In the 753... menu I see that my Host Channel is 1:0-20 (meaning cable channel 20, as expected) but the VBI Channel is listed as 1:0-2 (meaning channel 2 which is essentially empty here, used for announcements on the cable system).

EDIT: I happened to be on channel 2 (following a reset) when I went into the diagnostics. I next changed to channel 20 and it now says the VBI channel is fffffffd.

You refered to the clock set channel as being potentially different from the host channel, as does the SpiffSpace document. In this 753 menu, which item is the clock set channel?

Anyway, I'm about to see if I can set up an antenna to do a quick OTA test.

Marc

I've now hooked up an antenna and was able to get a very clear picture on the PBS host channel 20. However, the VBI test still fails and there seem to be no VBI packets at all coming through. I did this test several times, and get identical results on the cable version of 20 and the antenna version of 20. So, I believe I can rule out that the cable company is messing up the transmission.

I may see if I can tune the Muncie station and get a time signal from that...

Marc

I checked the Muncie station (channel 49)and I get a "No Signal" when I try to tune it. It must be too far away.

Maybe someone can help me resolve the following conflict:

A. My DVD-R is set to SmartClock using Channel 20 (local PBS-WFYI) and has no problem setting the time. I've done it twice today.

B. But my Sony DVR isn't seeing any VBI traffic on channel 20, either OTA or cable, and can't set time or get listings.

Is it possible something is just glitched in the Sony DVR and one of the reset procedures would fix it? And if so, which reset would you recommend. My vacation is over and tomorrow I go back to work. Would like to resolve this today if the problem is on my end...

Marc

I checked the Muncie station (channel 49)and I get a "No Signal" when I try to tune it. It must be too far away.

Maybe someone can help me resolve the following conflict:

A. My DVD-R is set to SmartClock using Channel 20 (local PBS-WFYI) and has no problem setting the time. I've done it twice today.

B. But my Sony DVR isn't seeing any VBI traffic on channel 20, either OTA or cable, and can't set time or get listings.

Is it possible something is just glitched in the Sony DVR and one of the reset procedures would fix it? And if so, which reset would you recommend. My vacation is over and tomorrow I go back to work. Would like to resolve this today if the problem is on my end...

Marc

I really don't think it's a problem on your end. If you tried the VBI test on the cable input of your SONY without the cablecard inserted, and the VBI test still failed on channel 20, but your other equipmnet is getting a clock signal and/or data from 20, the only thing I can think of, is if it's not a problem that channel 20 is having, perhaps you should try a factory restore of your Sony DVR from the 9012 menu which will start everything over again and then see if that resolves the issue. You would know by tomorrow morning.

So this morning I've still got no clock. I did the above diagnostics and confirmed the host channel remains Analog (PBS Channel 20 here). No VBI packets are coming through.

Interestingly, my DVD player/recorder was able to set the time from the TV signal. I ensured that the time on it was cleared (unplugged overnight), plugged it in and started it up. It reported no time, then within a minute set the correct time automatically. Maybe there is a secondary channel that can be used to set the time... I poked around last night looking for channels with useful VBI packets without finding any. A couple channels had a few packets (probably CC) but none helped set the time on the DVR.

I sent a message to WFYI asking them if they had a problem. The initial response (from a real live person!) was that they didn't believe they were having issues but they would check with the engineering group to double check.

Hmmm. Later today I'll try a pair of rabbit ears and see if I can see VBI packets on channel 20 from OTA, but if my DVD-R is getting a time signal, why isn't the Sony?

Marc

I did receive VIB signals from WFYI channel 20 in Indianapolis but that stopped working last weekend. I receive my signal from them OTA with an antenna. I'm selling my Sony DHG-HH500 on ebay as it's no good to me with out the TV Guide info and no other local station is transmitting the VIB TV Guide signal that I can find (Marion, IN). I ordered a TIVO Series 3 this morning.

Marc,

Are you sure your Smart Clock is actually getting it's signal from CH 20. My "smart" clock radio sets automaticlly with out any TV signal.

Channel 49 (Muncie) is not sending a VIB TV Guide signal (I checked) and neither is channel 55 Ft. Wayne. Channel 55 Ft. Wayne passes the VIB check with a good count but no clock or TV Guide information comes through.

Additionally, the concept that we have three companies Sony, Gemstar and a television station (for data transmission) means that corrections to problems border on the impossible. When I am reduced to calling TV stations and explaining transmission technicalities - something is drastically wrong!

Ain't it the truth. The whole issue of guide data is rapidly becoming the major stumbling block for anyone attempting anything other than a paid TV providers DVR...anyone else noticing that one?

I sold my Sony about a month ago after building a really awesome three-tuner MythTV system for digital OTA. No sooner did I get it done than zap2it.com (owned by TMS) announced that they're closing labs.zap2it.com where all U.S. MythTV users get their listings. From what I understand, TMS and TV Guide are the only two companies from which you can get U.S. listings. I believe Gemstar gets them from TMS. Now Gemstar's getting sold. I've frankly had it with all of them.

Although there's talk of something being worked out between MythTV (as well as other projects) with TMS, I'm getting really tempted to just configure my MythTV to use EIT data. Frankly, I'm beginning to think that it's worth settling for a short (24 hours or less) guide from EIT just to avoid any dependency on anything other than the station itself. At least I know that the station isn't motivated to hold it's own EIT guide data hostage.

Tom

Edit: My mistake...Gemstar uses TV Guide data, not TMS.

I checked the Muncie station (channel 49)and I get a "No Signal" when I try to tune it. It must be too far away.

Maybe someone can help me resolve the following conflict:

A. My DVD-R is set to SmartClock using Channel 20 (local PBS-WFYI) and has no problem setting the time. I've done it twice today.

B. But my Sony DVR isn't seeing any VBI traffic on channel 20, either OTA or cable, and can't set time or get listings.

Is it possible something is just glitched in the Sony DVR and one of the reset procedures would fix it? And if so, which reset would you recommend. My vacation is over and tomorrow I go back to work. Would like to resolve this today if the problem is on my end...

Marc

I'm in Muncie. I receive my TVGOS data via antenna on channel 20 (Indy PBS-WFYI). I just tested channel 20 and it passes the VBI test here. My local PBS (WIPB-49) does NOT pass the VBI test. I have never been able to receive guide data from channel 49 ota.

I do not know which reset would work for you. All I know is the data I have from channel 20 ota is good. Spot checking my guide information reveals no gaps in data. I checked through Wednesday July 18th.

Hope this helps narrow down your possibilities.

My firmware version is 1.2.05. My Gemstar version is 8.1.42.

I am not using my dvr much at the moment because most of the shows I watch are on summer hiatus. The shows I watch now I record with my Comcast dvr I got for the NASCAR season. After ESPN airs its last Cup race, I will probably return it.

A heads up for anyone in Northern Virginia who has Cox as their cable provider and subscribes to digital service either with a set top box or cablecards connected to their equipment that employs GEMSTAR's TVGOSG embedded program guide:

Today, I noticed about 11AM that Cox reconverted WETA PBS 26 (metro area host channel) back to a digital signal. For the past 3 weeks, and after listening to disgruntled customers like myself complain after the inital conversion to all channels digital at the end of May, they had changed it back to an analog signal in the digtal lineup so that GEMSTAR TVGOS data could be passed from the host station (WETA 26) and guide data could be dowloaded through the cable.

Now it is digital again, and anyone with TVs, or Dvrs that have cablecards in them or with a STB will not be able to get the daily program guide effectively making the hardware almost useless without the guide. This really stinks. They made many of us believe for 3 weeks that they were listening to our concerns and were trying to work with us to make our Cox experience "Pleasant" Now, if they don't fix this again and keep an analog channel in the digital lineup that passes VBI TVGOS data, we are stuck!

Hi Marc,

Sorry to hear you're still having problems. I am still trying to figure out mine from a week or so ago (HoustonPerson tried to help us both at the same time) and still have no guide data. I have the unique situation in that I have two TVGOS guides, one from my Sony DVR and one from the built-in tuner in my tv.

Both of my TVGOS guides stopped getting updates ("no listing plague" in the Listings tab) from the host station on the same day (about the 3rd of July). Both have a "blank" by the Host Channel in the 753 menu.

On the DVR, my host channel failed the VBI test in the 9012 menu.

Also, I have done a few soft resets of the DVR and it's taken 18 hours+ each time for the clock to appear. It's never taken more than 5 to 10 minutes for the clock to reappear in the past (power outages, etc.). I'm not sure where I'm getting the clock update if my host channel is blank?

So ultimately, I'm still trying to get my guide to update again but at least the DVR knows what time it is so I can manually set up a recording schedule. I can't wait until I have 20 recordings of "no listings" that I get to try to guess at what the program is!!! [Insert sarcastic comment]

I have one idea from reading through posts today that I will try on my end tonight. Have you tried checking if there have been any changes in your channel mappings in the channel setup? I've noticed TVGOS has sometimes "turned on" random channels and if some other channel was "turned on" as channel 20 (in your case), that channel might be conflicting with the "real" channel 20 that should be downloading the data. It's probably a long shot, but it's one more thing we should all probably be checking when we have problems like this. Early last year, I had my digital PBS mapped to the analog PBS station and that caused my guide to stop updating until I realized what I had done and I changed it back.

As a side note, the "VBI Channel" in the 753 menu is simply the channel you were tuned to when you entered the 753 menu. Don't as me why that is, seems like pretty useless information.

Hope you figure it out...and please post your solution if you do. I'll post mine if I figure out my problems.

I'm in Muncie. I receive my TVGOS data via antenna on channel 20 (Indy PBS-WFYI). I just tested channel 20 and it passes the VBI test here. My local PBS (WIPB-49) does NOT pass the VBI test. I have never been able to receive guide data from channel 49 ota.

I do not know which reset would work for you. All I know is the data I have from channel 20 ota is good. Spot checking my guide information reveals no gaps in data. I checked through Wednesday July 18th.

Hope this helps narrow down your possibilities.

My firmware version is 1.2.05. My Gemstar version is 8.1.42.

I am not using my dvr much at the moment because most of the shows I watch are on summer hiatus. The shows I watch now I record with my Comcast dvr I got for the NASCAR season. After ESPN airs its last Cup race, I will probably return it.

I just checked (4:30 PM EDT) channel 20 WFYI and it's once again sending out the VBI signal and passes the VBI test. I'm waiting to see if it will set the clock and bring up guide data. It wasn't there this morning but that was before I sent WFYI an email about the problem. Yes, I'm sure that's why it's working again! :)

Hi everyone,

Just as Oldandslow reported, WFYI is now sending good VBI data again. Since Wrwine3 did a successful VBI test at 3:49 pm, and I noticed my unit came back shortly after that, and I know that at 3:15 my unit was still --:--, I'd say that the problem corrected itself between 3:15 and 3:45.

I got a very prompt reply from an engineer at WFYI, at about 4:15, who had done some tests and found everything working. Presumably he did his tests right after things started working again, so he wasn't able to find the problem. I'm not sure where the trouble actually was, and probably never will know the root cause.

The folks at WFYI were very responsive, getting back in touch with me quickly. I want to publicly thank them for their attention, even though the issue cleared up before they got to it. I had a response from them first thing this morning acknowledging my email from last night, and an engineering guy got back to me at 4 pm. That's quite fast. Insert plug for joining PBS here. They're great folks doing an important public service.

Thanks to everyone who helped me. I did a re-setup just now to clear out the OTA antenna stuff, and my unit is now telling me to check back after 24 hours, but I did a VBI test which passes so I think we're good.

Marc

Does anyone know how to request a new channel from TVGOS? I recently went to Fios and there are channels that I cannot get guide info for because they are not in the master list.

Hi everyone,

Just as Oldandslow reported, WFYI is now sending good VBI data again. Since Wrwine3 did a successful VBI test at 3:49 pm, and I noticed my unit came back shortly after that, and I know that at 3:15 my unit was still --:--, I'd say that the problem corrected itself between 3:15 and 3:45.

I got a very prompt reply from an engineer at WFYI, at about 4:15, who had done some tests and found everything working. Presumably he did his tests right after things started working again, so he wasn't able to find the problem. I'm not sure where the trouble actually was, and probably never will know the root cause.

The folks at WFYI were very responsive, getting back in touch with me quickly. I want to publicly thank them for their attention, even though the issue cleared up before they got to it. I had a response from them first thing this morning acknowledging my email from last night, and an engineering guy got back to me at 4 pm. That's quite fast. Insert plug for joining PBS here. They're great folks doing an important public service.

Thanks to everyone who helped me. I did a re-setup just now to clear out the OTA antenna stuff, and my unit is now telling me to check back after 24 hours, but I did a VBI test which passes so I think we're good.

Marc

Yes, clock was set this morning and guide data was starting to be filled back in. I've not heard back from WFYI.

I'm still selling my Sony as it's just a matter of time (18 months, maybe) before it's a door stop. Plus, I've ordered a TIVO series 3. Anyone want a Sony DHG-HHD500 cheap?

Unfortunately, my problem still continues. Is anyone in the Champaign-Urbana, IL area having problems with receiving TVGOS data from WILL channel 12?

In the past, the VBI test in the *G* Factory Test menu had always passed for channel 12 but for a week now it has failed. I'm thinking of trying the "force host channel" code since it's really the only remaining thing I haven't tried, but is that even worth trying if the *G* Factory Test says there are no VBI packets being sent out by that channel?

Thanks to anyone for your help!

"Anyone want a Sony DHG-HHD500 cheap? "

I do, your Private messaging is turned off though.

"Anyone want a Sony DHG-HHD500 cheap? "

I do, your Private messaging is turned off though.

Sorry, I didn't realize it was turned off. It's on now.

Could someone please help me translate this so I understand a little better of where to go from here?

I just spoke to my PBS station chief engineer. He confirmed they did in fact make a change exactly when my listings stopped updating. He said they replaced the analog encoder with a new digital encoder. I told him that I had heard that the hardware products weren't capable of receiving the listings digitally. He said that he knew that and the Gemstar data is being transformed into analog before it's actually transmitted (or some lingo to that effect) so that by the time it gets to my DVR it should look the same as it did before.

He said I was the only person in the area to call and if there was a problem on his end he would have expected to receive many more calls than just myself. So he basically implied it was a problem on my end. I explained that I had two products with the Gemstar TV Guide On Screen system (my tv as well as my dvr) and told him they both stopped updating at the same time. Unfortunately, he was still pretty confident that he would have heard more people complain if the problem was on his end.




Unfortunately, my problem still continues. Is anyone in the Champaign-Urbana, IL area having problems with receiving TVGOS data from WILL channel 12?

In the past, the VBI test in the *G* Factory Test menu had always passed for channel 12 but for a week now it has failed. I'm thinking of trying the "force host channel" code since it's really the only remaining thing I haven't tried, but is that even worth trying if the *G* Factory Test says there are no VBI packets being sent out by that channel?

Thanks to anyone for your help!

Could someone please help me translate this so I understand a little better of where to go from here?

I just spoke to my PBS station chief engineer. He confirmed they did in fact make a change exactly when my listings stopped updating. He said they replaced the analog encoder with a new digital encoder. I told him that I had heard that the hardware products weren't capable of receiving the listings digitally. He said that he knew that and the Gemstar data is being transformed into analog before it's actually transmitted (or some lingo to that effect) so that by the time it gets to my DVR it should look the same as it did before.

He said I was the only person in the area to call and if there was a problem on his end he would have expected to receive many more calls than just myself. So he basically implied it was a problem on my end. I explained that I had two products with the Gemstar TV Guide On Screen system (my tv as well as my dvr) and told him they both stopped updating at the same time. Unfortunately, he was still pretty confident that he would have heard more people complain if the problem was on his end.

If you are not seeing a good VBI signal (passes the VBI test) then trying to force the recorder to get the VBI signal from that channel will do no good. If it's not there, it's not there.

Did you make sure the station is transmitting an analog signal? Check at system information menu. If the signal is digital, I believe you are out of luck.

Are there any other PBS stations you could try? They don't have to be especially strong to receive the VBI signal. If you can make out the picture it will probably work. Other than that, you'll have to convince the engineer that the station is no longer transmitting a good VBI signal. IMO

A heads up for anyone in Northern Virginia who has Cox as their cable provider and subscribes to digital service either with a set top box or cablecards connected to their equipment that employs GEMSTAR's TVGOSG embedded program guide:

Today, I noticed about 11AM that Cox reconverted WETA PBS 26 (metro area host channel) back to a digital signal. For the past 3 weeks, and after listening to disgruntled customers like myself complain after the inital conversion to all channels digital at the end of May, they had changed it back to an analog signal in the digtal lineup so that GEMSTAR TVGOS data could be passed from the host station (WETA 26) and guide data could be dowloaded through the cable.

Now it is digital again, and anyone with TVs, or Dvrs that have cablecards in them or with a STB will not be able to get the daily program guide effectively making the hardware almost useless without the guide. This really stinks. They made many of us believe for 3 weeks that they were listening to our concerns and were trying to work with us to make our Cox experience "Pleasant" Now, if they don't fix this again and keep an analog channel in the digital lineup that passes VBI TVGOS data, we are stuck!


Great News! Just got a call from a top supervisor at Cox who admitted that I was right and they were wrong. Apparently after he spoke with the engineering department, someone had in fact flipped the wrong switch while they were changing the digital short form logos on the channels and inadvertently made WETA 26 digital. They actually apologized for the inconvenience and said it was returned to an analog signal for all Cox subscribers with any level of service analog or digital and that they will retransmit and leave WETA analog until WETA itself decides to no longer send out an analog signal. I checked, and it's back! Now I know my Sony will definitely work until February 2009. The little guy sometimes scores a minor victory!

Hi everyone,

Just as Oldandslow reported, WFYI is now sending good VBI data again. Since Wrwine3 did a successful VBI test at 3:49 pm, and I noticed my unit came back shortly after that, and I know that at 3:15 my unit was still --:--, I'd say that the problem corrected itself between 3:15 and 3:45.

I got a very prompt reply from an engineer at WFYI, at about 4:15, who had done some tests and found everything working. Presumably he did his tests right after things started working again, so he wasn't able to find the problem. I'm not sure where the trouble actually was, and probably never will know the root cause.

The folks at WFYI were very responsive, getting back in touch with me quickly. I want to publicly thank them for their attention, even though the issue cleared up before they got to it. I had a response from them first thing this morning acknowledging my email from last night, and an engineering guy got back to me at 4 pm. That's quite fast. Insert plug for joining PBS here. They're great folks doing an important public service.

Thanks to everyone who helped me. I did a re-setup just now to clear out the OTA antenna stuff, and my unit is now telling me to check back after 24 hours, but I did a VBI test which passes so I think we're good.

Marc

As a further update, things are looking good. I've got channels and listings are filling in. I also got another note from the engineer at WFYI, and he confirmed that yesterday they reset the GEMSTAR encoder. He didn't have all the info I had provided to an intermediary so he had misunderstood one aspect of my message (GEMSTAR data versus just the time signal). He's a great guy. He also confirmed that they also had to do a reset last week, right around when my troubles began. Something odd was going on. My guess is that the issue was upstream, as WFYI has been most reliable for the last year and a half.

Anyway, all is well, except for some reason channel 68 (scifi) has almost no sound, which has nothing to do with the DVR! Oldandslow, do you have any probs with Scifi channel? The cableco said it's fine on their end...

Marc

Thanks to PhillyC for the link regarding having 4.21 version of the Motorola CC to record shows that had been failing with the 4.05 version. Tried it last night and it's working so far.

It's very sad news that speaking with a supposed tier 3 tech support at Comcast that they did not know this and even when I asked how to get a 4.21 version the only reponse was take it back to the Comcast store and swap out CC's until you get lucky enough to get a 4.21.

Thanks to PhillyC for the link regarding having 4.21 version of the Motorola CC to record shows that had been failing with the 4.05 version. Tried it last night and it's working so far.

It's very sad news that speaking with a supposed tier 3 tech support at Comcast that they did not know this and even when I asked how to get a 4.21 version the only reponse was take it back to the Comcast store and swap out CC's until you get lucky enough to get a 4.21.

You would be wasting your time if you tried waiting for the firmware to upgrade itself. The same bug that cause recording problems also screws up the ability of the firmware to receive and upgrade. You should consider yourself lucky if you can pick up cablecards at the office. I would need to have a tech come.

BTW - if you get a card with older (then 4.05) firmware then it can upgrade itself to 4.21, assuming the headend has 4.21 spinning.

Whoa... that's probably the most significant development in this thread of the last six months...

That is really odd news. Gemstar just bought Aptiv Digital (an EPG vendor) not too long ago.

We use Qam but on and off we are thinking of subscribing to more and getting a cablecard(s).

Reading what others have written I now know the card to get, if Motorola, is with the 4.21 firmware.

I wonder also if this card causes the 161-6 error?

We don't want to get a card only to have to face this error problem and the hassle and cost of sending the unit to SONY.

Cablevision is our provider. Anyone know for certain that they have a card that records all and also doesn't cause the 161-6 error?

TIA

We use Qam but on and off we are thinking of subscribing to more and getting a cablecard(s).

Reading what others have written I now know the card to get, if Motorola, is with the 4.21 firmware.

I wonder also if this card causes the 161-6 error?

We don't want to get a card only to have to face this error problem and the hassle and cost of sending the unit to SONY.

Cablevision is our provider. Anyone know for certain that they have a card that records all and also doesn't cause the 161-6 error?

TIA

I have TW, and about a month ago I had a card installed in my 500 recorder, using the Sony manual for installation guidance. The tech had never seen the Sony recorder but had no problem getting it to function. Only cost was for installation - no monthly fee. I suggest you have one installed. If you get the 161 error you can have tech try other cards. As I recall, tech had a backup card with him.

Ray

Either way ... I will think twice before I ever buy another product that uses GemStar. The sheer magnitude of this forum attests to the poor planning and execution of this software and its integration with the (poor) Sony software delivered with the unit. The amount of posts generated and the time related to debugging the operation of the HDD500s and 250s, with the Guide, is untenable.

Additionally, the concept that we have three companies Sony, Gemstar and a television station (for data transmission) means that corrections to problems border on the impossible. When I am reduced to calling TV stations and explaining transmission technicalities - something is drastically wrong!

It’s lucky that we have some technically competent people in this forum! Perhaps we should volunteer the forum users to develop the new device for Sony – it looks like we have spent more time on debugging and developing workarounds than they have :-)

So I may have no choice - but I will resist!

In my opinion, Sony made the correct decision to put the TVGOS device in their recorder since the TV guide system doesn't require connection to either phone or internet or require a monthly fee. Also, TV guide has relationship with both cable and broadcast stations, and lots of installed product. As i see it, TV guide is solely responsible for the guide, and Sony's only involvement with the guide was to choose the tv guide device. Perhaps with that device installed, Sony may not have been able to include manual clock set.

Most of the problems posted here seem to be related to equipment failure at the local tv staion or to blockage of the guide signal by the cable company. My two recorders have been performing almost perfectly for the last six months. I had only one problem, which was cleared by a soft reset.
Also, I know now not to reset the unit when guide data disappears since the problem is more likely to be at the tv station, and reset will clear the clock and thus stop capability to record.

Ray

Seems to me that TVGOS has improved record start/stop times to allow programs to run for additional minutes or start and stop beyond the top of the hour. The Closer ran an additional ten minutes and the subsequent program started ten minutes late, and ran for an hour. Both recorded perfectly. Hopefully, that will work the same with ABC programs that run a few minutes beyond the hour.

Ray

Hi folks,

This is only indirectly related to my my HDD-500, but I figure maybe some others here are having the same problem as I am.

I've got my DVR hooked into an Onkyo SR-603 receiver. Sometime in the last few weeks, on one channel only (SciFi, channel 68 in the Carmel IN Brighthouse Networks lineup), the sound isn't there. Actually, it's almost 100% gone. I have to turn up the receiver drastically high to hear anything, and even that is distorted.

Any other channel I tune on the DVR is fine. But SciFi has no sound. Other tuners in the house work fine for this channel with one exception: the Scientific Atlanta HDDVR that is right next to it. A DVD-R on the same splitter works fine. All these devices are hooked into the Onkyo, but only the two DVRs use digital audio connections. The HDMI output from the Sci Atlanta sends sound fine to the TV if I bypass the receiver.

I found that if I force the receiver to Mono sound mode, it picks up the sound OK, albeit only one channel (the right).

This is pretty strange. Anybody else with a DVR experiencing this?

Marc

I was unhooking & unplugging everything today while I was changing to a nicer TV stand. Once again, I was kicking myself for not buying a UPS for my 250. However, when I plugged it back in almost 45 minutes later. Everything was just how I left it. The only thing that needed to be updated was the time and that only took about 15 minutes. The guide content, recording schedule, channel lineup, etc., was all intact and unchanged. Was there a new firmware update that changed how the unit handles power failures? Has anyone else experienced this?

I was unhooking & unplugging everything today while I was changing to a nicer TV stand. Once again, I was kicking myself for not buying a UPS for my 250. However, when I plugged it back in almost 45 minutes later. Everything was just how I left it. The only thing that needed to be updated was the time and that only took about 15 minutes. The guide content, recording schedule, channel lineup, etc., was all intact and unchanged. Was there a new firmware update that changed how the unit handles power failures? Has anyone else experienced this?

I have never had a problem after a power outage at my home on either of my 2 hdd500s. Everything should stay "intact" as far as I know. I actually bring one of my sonys on vacation to watch recorded programs.

I have never had a problem after a power outage at my home on either of my 2 hdd500s. Everything should stay "intact" as far as I know. I actually bring one of my sonys on vacation to watch recorded programs.

In the past, whenever I've had a power loss or unplugged the unit, I've lost the program guide content. Maybe it just wasn't working right before? :confused:

In the past, whenever I've had a power loss or unplugged the unit, I've lost the program guide content. Maybe it just wasn't working right before? :confused:

I've seen a variety of theories posted here about loss of guide / channel order on loss of power. In my experience it has been more random, but usually doesn't happen. I've had to re-order channels due to power loss maybe less than 10% of the time, and it hasn't mattered whether the power loss event was short or long duration. And I've never actually lost guide data, it has solely been the channel order.

Marc

I've seen a variety of theories posted here about loss of guide / channel order on loss of power. In my experience it has been more random, but usually doesn't happen. I've had to re-order channels due to power loss maybe less than 10% of the time, and it hasn't mattered whether the power loss event was short or long duration. And I've never actually lost guide data, it has solely been the channel order.

Marc

10% is a good number. For me it has been more like 50%
of the time. All my DVRs are on UPS - so I thought it would
never happen again - but it still does.

It seems to be less now than a year ago - so maybe it has
something to do with Gemstar loading new software on the
DVR.

Personally - I'd rather loose the guide data and not loose the
channel order. The guide data will come back while I sleep.
I have 5 of these boxes and realigning all the channel order
on 5 units takes lots of my time.

I guess that is the cost of ownership.

Marc,
Funny you mention the sound problem. My receiver lights up 5 LED's to show which of the 5.1 channels it is receiving. Last night I watched a PBS special that lit 1 LED. I doubt the show was taped in mono. Maybe someone flipped the wrong switch at the station.

10% is a good number. For me it has been more like 50%
of the time. All my DVRs are on UPS - so I thought it would
never happen again - but it still does.

It seems to be less now than a year ago - so maybe it has
something to do with Gemstar loading new software on the
DVR.

Personally - I'd rather loose the guide data and not loose the
channel order. The guide data will come back while I sleep.
I have 5 of these boxes and realigning all the channel order
on 5 units takes lots of my time.

I guess that is the cost of ownership.
My rate has probably been more like 80-90% I lose the channel lineup & guide data on power outage. I also have mine hooked to a UPS (but it's an old one and the battery's probably shot). There have been a couple times when I've had to unplug for less than a minute to move the dvr or something and I haven't lost anything. But anything more than a minute or two and I'm usually hosed.

We had a couple hour long power outages last week. My UPS only lasted for about 10 minutes and I lost everything except my recorded content. The first couple of times after the power came back on I made some basic changes to the channel lineup (removing channels I don't watch, etc.), only to lose it all again the next day. After the third power outage in as many days, I gave up and figured I'll reorder it all after I get my new UPS. Of course the power hasn't gone out since then, but I know it's just waiting for me to fix my channel lineup before it goes out again :(

I know it's just waiting for me to fix my channel lineup before it goes out again :(

I think they call that Murphy's Law :rolleyes:

I know the 1st time it happened to me years ago - I
called Sony Tech Support and asked them WHY they
could not write out the channel order to HD. It is not
like there is not one in the BOX :p

They said that was a GOOD IDEA - but we all know
Sony is doing NOTHING to update any software on
an obsolete product.

I have 5 of these boxes and realigning all the channel order on 5 units takes lots of my time.
There's an alternative to having them in a certain order. You can simply enter the channel number to jump to that channel's listings. It only takes a second or two. That way, the order doesn't matter.

There's an alternative to having them in a certain order. You can simply enter the channel number to jump to that channel's listings. It only takes a second or two. That way, the order doesn't matter.

That does not solve the ordering in the guide.

I only watch 20 of the 400 channels listed in the guide.

I want those 20 channels consecutively listed in the guide.
Therefore I have to order them in the guide.

Question about channel mapping. I tune in via QAM. Comcast has our pbs main station at 88.6 but all its sub-channels are at 109.7 .8 and .9.

When I set the main channel to 86.6...the HDD250 automatically puts the subchannels (family, world, and create) at 86.7 86.8 and 86.9. Is there a way to fix this? Why is it automatically mapping these and not letting me do them manually? Anyone know of a workaround?

I figured it out...moving another channel up between the main and subs in my channel order allowed me to fix it.

Question about channel mapping. I tune in via QAM. Comcast has our pbs main station at 88.6 but all its sub-channels are at 109.7 .8 and .9.

When I set the main channel to 86.6...the HDD250 automatically puts the subchannels (family, world, and create) at 86.7 86.8 and 86.9. Is there a way to fix this? Why is it automatically mapping these and not letting me do them manually? Anyone know of a workaround?

That does not solve the ordering in the guide.

I only watch 20 of the 400 channels listed in the guide.

I want those 20 channels consecutively listed in the guide.
Therefore I have to order them in the guide.

What am I missing.

The TV Guide in my box has about 480 channels in the Guide. I list the 20 or so I want, in the order I want on the screen. It takes about 5 min to do that.

There are several ways to do that; but since those 20 channels can be all over the place, the fastest for me is: Go to the channel you want to change position on, hit the menu button, and select the "position" you want it to go to. The position does not even have to be "exact" (about 5 seconds for each channel). Once all the stations are on the screen together, you can use the fast scroll to put them in the "exact" spot you want.

What am I missing.

The TV Guide in my box has about 480 channels in the Guide. I list the 20 or so I want, in the order I want on the screen. It takes about 5 min to do that.

There are several ways to do that; but since those 20 channels can be all over the place, the fastest for me is: Go to the channel you want to change position on, hit the menu button, and select the "position" you want it to go to. The position does not even have to be "exact" (about 5 seconds for each channel). Once all the stations are on the screen together, you can use the fast scroll to put them in the "exact" spot you want.

That is the procedure I use. When I place a channel
where I want it - then I take the next channel that
I don't want and move it to the location that I just
left so I can continue the scroll where I left off.

STILL - finding and getting 20 channels out of 500
never takes JUST 5 Minutes. It is a royal pain in the
behind. And GOD forbid if you accidently scroll by and
miss one of your favorites and have to do the whole
scroll process AGAIN.

Maybe times really flies for you because you are
having so much FUN. http://www.rx8web.com/smilies/bouncy.gif

Last night I ordered a new UPS that regulates line
voltage and delivers PURE SINE WAVE output. I
want to see if that stops this insanity.

Question about channel mapping. I tune in via QAM. Comcast has our pbs main station at 88.6 but all its sub-channels are at 109.7 .8 and .9.

When I set the main channel to 86.6...the HDD250 automatically puts the subchannels (family, world, and create) at 86.7 86.8 and 86.9. Is there a way to fix this? Why is it automatically mapping these and not letting me do them manually? Anyone know of a workaround?

Remember, for people who receive these channels OTA, they all have the same major number. This automatic renumbering is a nice little convenience for me, because I can receive several South Carolina ETV stations, but my TVGOS listings contain only one complete set of subchannels. I put those subchannels together in the list, and I can easily re-number them to whichever station I want to watch or record from, depending on where I've aimed the antenna.

Has anyone, hopefully in the Connecticut area, been able to record HD from TNT HD? The last two weeks, I've tried to record "The Closer", and while it shows up the schedule...at the end of the night it doesn't show up in the recorded list. I was wondering if perhaps there was a "no-record" bit set on for that particular show.

Thanks.

JLOB

UPS is great for short power dropouts but may be worse than no UPS if power interruption lasts longer than it can supply replacement power. I suggest you test your unit by disconnecting AC until UPS power drops out, and then reconnecting. After reconnecting, my UPS stayed off so now I no longer have it connected to the DVR's. My two units recover within minutes of power return.
Also, if your unit is a few years old, the battery may need replacement, which will be revealed by my suggested test.

Ray

That is the procedure I use. When I place a channel
where I want it - then I take the next channel that
I don't want and move it to the location that I just
left so I can continue the scroll where I left off.

-----------------------
Yikes! You are correct, that is the slowest and most painful way to do it. Why not use the "menu" button to assign the position you want, even if it is a guess?
----------------------------

STILL - finding and getting 20 channels out of 500
never takes JUST 5 Minutes. It is a royal pain in the
behind. And GOD forbid if you accidently scroll by and
miss one of your favorites and have to do the whole
scroll process AGAIN.
----------------------
Yikes again! Wow that is painful. All I can suggest is use the "menu" button with a best guess position, then scroll later when all 20 channels are on page one and two.

-------------------------

Maybe times really flies for you because you are
having so much FUN. http://www.rx8web.com/smilies/bouncy.gif

Last night I ordered a new UPS that regulates line
voltage and delivers PURE SINE WAVE output. I
want to see if that stops this insanity.

I sorry, I was asssuming you knew which stations you wanted? My bad. Page up and down can take you through the 500 channel list in less than a minute. And of course, you can place all of them in positions "1" if you want? with the "menu" button, and then just scroll the twenty on page one?

I thought all DHG-HDD worked the same way?

I sorry, I was asssuming you knew which stations you wanted? My bad. Page up and down can take you through the 500 channel list in less than a minute. And of course, you can place all of them in positions "1" if you want? with the "menu" button, and then just scroll the twenty on page one?

I thought all DHG-HDD worked the same way?

I'm still missing something here.

1) Yes - I know exactly what stations I want.

2) They can be anywhere in a list of 500.

3) I'm not aware of any PAGE UP or Down function. Even if
there is a page function instead of scroll - there are not that
many channels displayed on a page.

4) YES - I could assign all 20 to position #1 and adjust them
afterwards.

5) THE BOTTOM LINE is still taking the time to find 20 desired
stations out of a list of 500 - where they are randomly distributed.

When in channel set up section. The channel up/down button on the remote (or spare remote), becomes the page up/down button. You can go through many many many pages really quick that way.

I just went and checked my recorder. I get 13 channels per page in set up. So in two pages that would be about 26 channels.

drhankz, Are you saying your unit loses the TV Guide set up if you loose the power?

I have moved my unit from TV to TV in house (had to because the DLP did not work a few months ago).

We just had one of those major lightening storms, where the lights go off for 45 min. I do have a surge protector, but not a UPS. And I have taken my unit down to Best Buy, to play HD on new TV's, since I knew for certain it was from "my" source and not theirs.

The TV Guide is always there, just like I left it. A couple of times over the last two years it has changed because of data grid patterns from TV Guide changed ("requires" the (1)full soft re-setup, (2)tuner channel setup, and (3)TV Guide set up again). And a year or two ago I learned you "can not" turn it back on after a power interrupton until the clock has "locked in" - that did cause it to loose it's set up once I think? Way back there I was in a hurry one time after a power loss, and I started immediately messing with it, and it went completely "stupid" on me. So now I do not turn it on, until the clock appears.

Is it possible that you have had a data grid change from TV Guide and not aware of it? All markets in the USA have had at least ONE this year, and most where in the March and April time frame. The units willl "not" work correctly, until the 1,2&3 step are done, after a grid change? Bascially, that means each time you have a complete or partial power loss, your unit is attempting the soft reset, but you are not finishing it with steps 2 and 3; therefore the data grids are always screwed up.

With a correctly working unit and pure non-corrupted data grids; you should be able to unplug it for a day. Come back the next day, plug it in, let the clock appear, and all your recorded programs should be there, and the TV listing should still be in the correct order (missing program listings of course). If not there is something wrong with the unit?

...................

Is it possible that you have had a data grid change from TV Guide and not aware of it? All markets in the USA have had at least ONE this year, and most where in the March and April time frame. The units willl "not" work correctly, until the 1,2&3 step are done, after a grid change? Bascially, that means each time you have a complete or partial power loss, your unit is attempting the soft reset, but you are not finishing it with steps 2 and 3; therefore the data grids are always screwed up.

............

Ok, the above paragraph is hard to understand and explain.

The unit will operating correctly with power loss if the data grid formats are correct. If the data grids are not correct, it will not operate correctly after power is restored.

drhankz, Are you saying your unit loses the TV Guide set up if you loose the power?

I have moved my unit from TV to TV in house (had to because the DLP did not work a few months ago).

We just had one of those major lightening storms, where the lights go off for 45 min. I do have a surge protector, but not a UPS. And I have taken my unit down to Best Buy, to play HD on new TV's, since I knew for certain it was from "my" source and not theirs.

The TV Guide is always there, just like I left it. A couple of times over the last two years it has changed because of data grid patterns from TV Guide changed ("requires" the (1)full soft re-setup, (2)tuner channel setup, and (3)TV Guide set up again). And a year or two ago I learned you "can not" turn it back on after a power interrupton until the clock has "locked in" - that did cause it to loose it's set up once I think? Way back there I was in a hurry one time after a power loss, and I started immediately messing with it, and it went completely "stupid" on me. So now I do not turn it on, until the clock appears.

Is it possible that you have had a data grid change from TV Guide and not aware of it? All markets in the USA have had at least ONE this year, and most where in the March and April time frame. The units willl "not" work correctly, until the 1,2&3 step are done, after a grid change? Bascially, that means each time you have a complete or partial power loss, your unit is attempting the soft reset, but you are not finishing it with steps 2 and 3; therefore the data grids are always screwed up.

With a correctly working unit and pure non-corrupted data grids; you should be able to unplug it for a day. Come back the next day, plug it in, let the clock appear, and all your recorded programs should be there, and the TV listing should still be in the correct order (missing program listings of course). If not there is something wrong with the unit?

I do loose all GUIDE DATA and need to reset and restore everything
from Scratch. It may just be my imagination - but they seem to
be related to power outages. I have noticed some that where probably
do to Gemstar software updates.

It happens much less frequently now. Last night I disconnected
two of them from my OLD UPS to install the NEW UPS and I did
not loose anything with the Hank - Power Outrage :D

Things have been stable for awhile - so maybe the updates are
stabilizing.

I do loose all GUIDE DATA and need to reset and restore everything
from Scratch. It may just be my imagination - but they seem to
be related to power outages. I have noticed some that where probably
do to Gemstar software updates.

It happens much less frequently now. Last night I disconnected
two of them from my OLD UPS to install the NEW UPS and I did
not loose anything with the Hank - Power Outrage :D

Things have been stable for awhile - so maybe the updates are
stabilizing.

If yours does not straighten out soon:
Then try the folowing:
1. soft reset - exit and menu button on the front panel while tuned to a station, the unit will turn off, and in less then 10 min your clock should come back, you should not turn it back on until the correct time appears.
2. Re-scan the Sony tuner from scratch (there is an option to force this in the setup - the Sony menu not the TV Guide menu
3. Go into TV Guide Set Up and answer "NO" to the question is the information correct and enter "00000" for the zip code. This should clear out the TV Guide system data (channel listings etc). Then do it again and answer "NO" and enter the correct zip code and other data


Turn it off and the next day you should have something for days 1,2 and 8 and it should be correct.

If yours does not straighten out soon:
Then try the folowing:
1. soft reset - exit and menu button on the front panel while tuned to a station, the unit will turn off, and in less then 10 min your clock should come back, you should not turn it back on until the correct time appears.
2. Re-scan the Sony tuner from scratch (there is an option to force this in the setup - the Sony menu not the TV Guide menu
3. Go into TV Guide Set Up and answer "NO" to the question is the information correct and enter "00000" for the zip code. This should clear out the TV Guide system data (channel listings etc). Then do it again and answer "NO" and enter the correct zip code and other data


Turn it off and the next day you should have something for days 1,2 and 8 and it should be correct.

Mine are good now - they have been fine for a couple of
months now. I know all the tricks. It is just since I have
5 of them - when 1 screws up the other 4 do as well. It
just compounds my job to fix all 5.

My favorite trick is 987789987 :p

It is even easy to remember.

Just browsing, I still have 2 500s. I have very few problems with them so I don't come here much for help. Sorry to hear about all the problems some have. IMO, It's usually not the Sony box causing problems, it's the cable co or the electric co.

Mine are good now - they have been fine for a couple of
months now. I know all the tricks. It is just since I have
5 of them - when 1 screws up the other 4 do as well. It
just compounds my job to fix all 5.



When all 5 simultaneously have problem, I would look outside the box for the problem source, and not try to fix something that isn't broken.

Ray

When all 5 simultaneously have problem, I would look outside the box for the problem source, and not try to fix something that isn't broken.

Ray

I'm not disagreeing with you but one of those outside
factors can be a POWER FAILURE.

I'm not disagreeing with you but one of those outside
factors can be a POWER FAILURE.

I've pulled the plug many times on my two DVRs to remove other faulty equipment from my entertainment center, and every time power was restored, the units were back to normal within minutes. Once there was a momentary power failure but my UPS no only didn't continue to supply power during the outage but also failed to supply power after house power was restored. Even this situation didn't create a fault in the units.


Ray

As I said before I have unplugged my HDD500 numerous times. Even took it down to Best Buy in the high heat and humidity in the big diesel truck (bounces like crazy). And the unit still worked perfect there and still works perfect here. Nothing lost in the system.

At Best Buy of course I had no clock because there was no antenna service. I was just playing pre-recorded programs. My clock came back when I got home and hooked up the antenna.

side note: That "unplug" process is considered a "soft reset" (same as menu and guide buttons on the front panel - but you keep the power that way)

Power Failure: I suppose it is possible with a cable system (and/or cable card); that things can go wacko. Remember the TV Guide in the box has to maintain its "links" to the "channels" from the cable service. To my way of thinking that is much more difficult to maintain those the "links" to cable vs. the "links" inside the box and it's "own" built-in tuner.

Put another way: OTA is much more "failsafe" then the Cable only solution. Just a thought, I have no way to prove that, I don't use cable.

I've pulled the plug many times on my two DVRs to remove other faulty equipment from my entertainment center, and every time power was restored, the units were back to normal within minutes. Once there was a momentary power failure but my UPS no only didn't continue to supply power during the outage but also failed to supply power after house power was restored. Even this situation didn't create a fault in the units.


Ray

ABOUT 3 months ago - I updated all of my 5 DVRs
that were on OLDER software. Since then they have
been GOOD with Power Outages and not lost the
channel lineup.

ALSO since the Ads have started - they have been
more reliable.

But two weeks ago - I had to do a soft reset on all
of them - so I assume Comcast or Gemstar did
something.

3. completely reset up TV Guide from scratch.

Can anyone who's had the lock-up problem and fixed it with the 3 steps elaborate on this? Step-by-step directions? It's the only step that's rather vague.

I am referring to only the step 3:

If you have completed the step 1 and 2, then for step 3 try this as a short cut:

Go into the tv guide set up section, were it will ask you if the information is correct (like your zip code on other stuff) and answer NO (you will answer NO even if it is correct) and then fill in the correct zip code again and any other remaing questions, even if there are prefilled on the screen already. So even if it shows 98201 the actually enter 98201 again, and do the same for any remaining questions. As strange as it sounds the is setting the TV Guide part up again...........it is doing this because you answered NO above.

That short cut method as worked for everyone, as long as steps one and two were fully completed correctly.

Now for some strange reason that does not work, you can do this but it is a lot more work:
In the case of the Sony HDD the fail safe way to do this would be:
1. Go into the tv guide set up section, were it will ask you if the information is correct (like your zip code on other stuff) and answer NO (you will answer NO even if it is correct.
2. Then enter "00000" in the zip code, then for any other screens that come up try entering zeros or blanks or any other bad data - assuming there are other questions.
3. then do the soft reset again, the box off and wait till the clock is correct, rescan the Sony tuner again, and then do the TV Guide setup again with the correct zip code etc


The "00000" are supposed to blank out the data grid system (I have never had to that; the short cut has worked for me - again it is the NO that triggers that for you)

ABOUT 3 months ago - I updated all of my 5 DVRs
that were on OLDER software. Since then they have
been GOOD with Power Outages and not lost the
channel lineup.

ALSO since the Ads have started - they have been
more reliable.

But two weeks ago - I had to do a soft reset on all
of them - so I assume Comcast or Gemstar did
something.

I know that with the Time Warner to Comcast change in Houston, those that rely on their Sony box for recordings via "only" cable etc are at their wits end, and not happy campers. If they have OTA hooked up to the Sony box, at least they can use that for their On-Screen data and still can record most of the cable stuff and all direct OTA stuff; but if it is new cable channels (HD or SD) then they don't get them in the OnScreen Guide at this time.

For Houston: Comcast has to notify Gemstar of the changes (and most are saying Comcast has not yet fully decided what all those changes are?). Once Comcast makes up it's mind? and then notifies Gemstar? It will take about 6-12 weeks for Gemstar implement the "placeholders" required for the new cable channels. From Comcast point of view this is something they have "no" incentive to do.

From Comcast point of view this is something they have "no" incentive to do.

I would not exactly say no INCENTIVE -- CLICK HERE! (http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=128700&site=cdn)

Incentive yes or no, its very hard to tell. It's clear Comcast wants "control"..........perhaps to kill off the OTA threat? After all OTA without a real time on the screen program guide (like they already have in Japan and AU), would make OTA less valuble.

SW Bell (I mean AT&T in San Antonio) as well as the cable and sat companies have made it clear they would like to kill OTA..........with the loby power they have in DC, it could happen.

If Comcast does get control, then where does the CBS Digital On-Screen Contract go? If Comcast gets it, it will be killed off; because it interfers with their gravy train. If CBS where to buy that portion, it could put money in their pocket as the sole provider of OTA Guide?

Time will tell I guess.

Incentive yes or no, its very hard to tell. It's clear Comcast wants "control"..........perhaps to kill off the OTA threat? After all OTA without a real time on the screen program guide (like they already have in Japan and AU), would make OTA less valuble.

SW Bell (I mean AT&T in San Antonio) as well as the cable and sat companies have made it clear they would like to kill OTA..........with the loby power they have in DC, it could happen.

If Comcast does get control, then where does the CBS Digital On-Screen Contract go? If Comcast gets it, it will be killed off; because it interfers with their gravy train. If CBS where to buy that portion, it could put money in their pocket as the sole provider of OTA Guide?

Time will tell I guess.

I never did mind the manual recordings on my VCR and DVD recorder (circa 2003), so as long as the OTA signal exists and I can set a manual recording, I'm fine. It may mean I ditch the Sony and go with an HTPC route. I can always see what is on by going to TVguide.com :D

Also with OTA only, it takes about 3 minutes to flip through all the channels and tell what is on.

Time will tell I guess.

Yup - Time Will Tell :eek:

All of a sudden, my box can't tune any of the digital channels, only analog ones. This is OTA antenna which I verified is supplying a strong signal.

Anybody got a clue what happened? And is there a place to see what the Sony thinks the signal strength is?

edit- soft reset fixed it. Still would like to know if you can see signal strength.

All of a sudden, my box can't tune any of the digital channels, only analog ones. This is OTA antenna which I verified is supplying a strong signal.

Anybody got a clue what happened? And is there a place to see what the Sony thinks the signal strength is?

This happened to me after i put in my TWC cablecard, and was fixed by rebooting my unit. I still can't get my guide data, but I did get back my digital channels.

And is there a place to see what the Sony thinks the signal strength is?

edit- soft reset fixed it. Still would like to know if you can see signal strength.


Menu -> Preferences -> System (top selection I think. My TV is apart at the moment)-> Enter. Sig strength will appear in a few seconds.

Hi - Getting ready to send my hdd250 to Sony in nearby Mt Pleasant, Pa. Just checking in to see if anyone else has had these problems. This unit has been working without a hitch since I bought it as an open box from Best Buy last July 28th. This past Friday, while watching the NBC evening news from Thursday, the timer kicked in to record the news at 6:30. When the timer executed, the unit rebooted itself. The welcome message appeared on the display, and it powered back up again. To correct the time and start recording again, I tuned to WQED HD at 13.1 to sync the time. After 3 minutes, the time was correct and it started recording. But while recording, I attempted to get back to the rec list, and got no response from the remote or the front panel when trying to access functions. Odd, huh?

So now I'm in the process of dumping programs off the hdd250 to dvd - Ted at Sony told me that the hard disk would lose all data as part of the diagnostic. The firmware also needs to be updated. I'm thinking that it's time for a new drive. Comments? Kudos to Sony for their support - Brickbat for the cheesy 90 day labor warranty....$98.44 for the diag and repair is not too bad.

By the way, our local PBS station in Pittsburgh is sending guide data on the HD digital channel - see attached.

This happened to me after i put in my TWC cablecard, and was fixed by rebooting my unit. I still can't get my guide data, but I did get back my digital channels.

About a month agoTW installed a cablecard in one of my units and it worked immediately. Only problem was that I had to edit channel numbers of some of the stations. I suggest you refer to your manual to confirm that the installation was done correctly, and if necessary have TW change the card unit you get one that works properly.

Ray

By the way, our local PBS station in Pittsburgh is sending guide data on the HD digital channel.I thought the TVGOS's digital transmission deal was to be exclusively with CBS channels(?).

By the way, our local PBS station in Pittsburgh is sending guide data on the HD digital channel - see attached.

myoda -

Where did those images originate? I'm guessing they're not from a screen that came from your HDD250?

myoda -

Where did those images originate? I'm guessing they're not from a screen that came from your HDD250?

Took these pics this morning from a menu that is accessed by pressing a series of keys on the remote. Go to first page in this thread and you will find a link to the:

Sony DHG-HDD250/500 Resource Guide
Online Since: 04/01/2006 01:30:00

Last Updated: 06/25/2007 22:16:02

A great resource for readers of this thread.

By the way, our local PBS station in Pittsburgh is sending guide data on the HD digital channel - see attached.

Myoda,

Are you basing this conclusion on the fact that the info on the left says "Pass" next to ATSC? If so, this doesn't mean that your guide data is coming from a digital station. It isn't clear at this time what that ATSC "pass" actually means. Mine has been passing that test since day 1, but my host channel is an analog cable channel. These appear to be tests that are checking for items IN ADDITION to the VBI packet checking. It is important to remember that VBI data can ONLY be present in an analog signal. There is no such thing as a Vertical Blanking Interval on a digital channel.

For those of you that don't know, this screen is the "G* Factory Test" screen referenced in the resource guide. You have to run the test when you are tuned to your host channel! Another thing to note is that if VBI data is shown as "good", this doesn't necessarily mean that you are getting good guide data - it just means that you are receiving good VBI data packets (these can contain information other than TVGOS info - Closed Captions would be an example). It is actually possible to get "Good" VBI data on a channel OTHER than your host channel.

To find your host channel, you have to follow the directions in my Resource Guide under this section:
2.1.8 How do I find my Host Channel?

Enter the Service Menu for TVGOS (See 2.2.2)

(System Info) chart will appear. Press <RIGHT> to go to second page. 5 entries down on the list it will say "Host Channel". It will appear as 0:0-XX (example: 0:0-11), the XX is your Host Channel. In the example shown, the "0" (zero) PRECEDING the colon indicates that it is OTA channel 11. If the digit PRECEDING the colon is a "1", then it is showing CABLE channel 11 is the host.

What channel is listed here?

Anyone else notice on Comcast in Northern New Jersey that they stopped passing the VBI packets from Ch.13 for several days?

I'm looking for someone in the Connecticut Comcast broadcast area, who can verify the ability to record TNT-HD on either the Sony 250 or 500. TNTHD was added to our cable lineup within the last month or so. I am unable to record anything from the TNT-HD channel. Not only can I not record specific HD programming, I'm unable to record what I know are analog reruns of older shows. I can schedule a recording, and it shows in the schedule. At actual recording time, however, nothing happens. It's frustrating to say the least, and I certainly would appreciate some direction from anyone who might have an idea why this is happening.

Thank you for any help anyone can offer.

JLOB

Anyone else notice on Comcast in Northern New Jersey that they stopped passing the VBI packets from Ch.13 for several days?

Cablevision too.

On Cablevision it is now being sent on the rolling TV listings channel (14 or 18).

On one unit, it found the new channel by itself. On another it didn't. Is a guide reset the only way to force it to find the new channel?

Is this occurring only in Cable? What is happening to OTA, is channel 13 still sending data?

And is this the solution for the digital change over? Leaving the listing channel analog and continuing to pass the data.

Cablevison too.

On Cablevision it is now being sent on the rolling TV listings channel (14 or 18).

On one unit, it found the new channel by itself. On another it didn't. Is a guide reset the only way to force it to find the new channel?

Is this occurring only in Cable? What is happening to OTA, is channel 13 still sending data?

And is this the solution for the digital change over? Leaving the listing channel analog and continuing to pass the data.
This sounds like an obvious solution - sending the VBI TVGOS data through the analog channel with TV Guide scrolling listings. On some cable systems, this is on channel 2. Several problems, however. Will this channel remain analog into the future? If so, will cablecos still carry it? Finally, this channel is not broadcast OTA, so anyone with OTA only would still be SOL.

Myoda,

Are you basing this conclusion on the fact that the info on the left says "Pass" next to ATSC? If so, this doesn't mean that your guide data is coming from a digital station. It isn't clear at this time what that ATSC "pass" actually means. Mine has been passing that test since day 1, tuned to your host channel!



I'm guessing the ATSC test has to do with the program information transmitted on the ATSC signal. This is the info displayed when you are out of the TVGO and use info on the remote directly.

Generally, the official and unofficial statement from Sony is: These units will not work with the TV Guide CBS On-Screen digital service. Sony has not made an official statement as of yet, if the unit can be sent back to Sony for upgrade (I think that is unlikely) or if a trade-in allowance (upgrade path) for a replacement product will be offered. Un-officially a new digital dual tuner product is in the works for USA (they have products like that in AU; but with a different guide service). The "hinting" I have received from Sony is that we may know these answers before the end of this year.


I don’t expect Sony to update the hdd250 but I do expect that I get at least five years shelf life out of any consumer electronic device I buy. If Sony comes out with a new DVR I will buy it over the Tivo HD units any day, since I have not hade one problem with my unit to date (OTA only). But as a final protest to Sony, I plan on shipping my very expensive paper weight back to Sony attn: Howard Stringer:)

these won't exactly be paperweights come 2009 if the time / guide data doesn't come over. It just becomes an ATSC / QAM tuner which you can so happen to pause live TV and do a manual (in front of the TV, push the record button) recording.

My dad is thinking of converting his garage (and building a new garage) to a home theater and if this happens, I'll probably give him one of my units to use as a DTV tuner.

So feel free to ship yours to me, I'll even pay the $20 shipping :)

Cablevision too.

On Cablevision it is now being sent on the rolling TV listings channel (14 or 18).

On one unit, it found the new channel by itself. On another it didn't. Is a guide reset the only way to force it to find the new channel?

Is this occurring only in Cable? What is happening to OTA, is channel 13 still sending data?

And is this the solution for the digital change over? Leaving the listing channel analog and continuing to pass the data.

Did some checking today and found that Comcast in NJ is using Ch.5 Fox for the VBI packets.Checked Ch.18 the TV Guide channel here and no VBI packets there.

Did some checking today and found that Comcast in NJ is using Ch.5 Fox for the VBI packets.Checked Ch.18 the TV Guide channel here and no VBI packets there.

How are you going to reset it to look to channel 5 for your data?

I know this isn't the proper thread, but it has been all over the blogs -- Tivo has announced a less expensive version of the S3, at $299. Similar features, dual tuners, smaller HDD, but not a bad price if you don't mind the monthly fee (which I happily pay).

http://tivo.com/whatistivo/tivohd/productspecifications/index.html

Just thought I would share. I know, I manage the Sony FAQ, and my Tivo-promoting seems contradictory to this fact, but I like the Tivo a lot more than the Sony!

I know this isn't the proper thread, but it has been all over the blogs -- Tivo has announced a less expensive version of the S3, at $299. Similar features, dual tuners, smaller HDD, but not a bad price if you don't mind the monthly fee (which I happily pay).

http://tivo.com/whatistivo/tivohd/productspecifications/index.html

Just thought I would share. I know, I manage the Sony FAQ, and my Tivo-promoting seems contradictory to this fact, but I like the Tivo a lot more than the Sony!

As a Series 3 owner, I have to say that while the TiVo has some plusses, I miss a lot of the little things that the Sony did better.

Well something is going on with the downloads the last two nights (or 48 hours).

Only 1/3 to 1/2 the data cell information is there. None of the prime time HD stations. Just odd stuff like 13-2? Just about 6 stations are filling in? This implies the "placeholders" have all been changed?

I am beginning the think all the data grids have changed again because of Comcast?

As a Series 3 owner, I have to say that while the TiVo has some plusses, I miss a lot of the little things that the Sony did better.


Out of curiosity, what are some of the little things that you feel the Sony does better?

How are you going to reset it to look to channel 5 for your data?

According to Sony engineer, the unit will automatically search for a new guide channel if it hasn't received data for three days.

Ray

Just wanted to post an FYI that I have to take the site offline for a little while while I do some updating/refreshing. (This is just a minor redesign, not new content)...

Hopefully it won't be down for more than 30 minutes or so (it might just be a few minutes).

Thanks!

Just wanted to post an FYI that I have to take the site offline for a little while while I do some updating/refreshing. (This is just a minor redesign, not new content)...

Hopefully it won't be down for more than 30 minutes or so (it might just be a few minutes).

Thanks!

Thanks for the heads up...to quote your site:
Donec eu mi sed turpis feugiat feugiat. Integer turpis arcu, pellentesque eget, cursus et, fermentum ut, sapien. Fusce metus mi, eleifend sollicitudin, molestie id, varius et, nibh. Donec nec libero.

Thanks for the heads up...to quote your site:

Be nice! Baby steps - I am still cleaning up the gibberish placeholders. I just wanted to get the update on the server so I could get a better look at it. Unfortunately, by hit counter reset! I wish I could have prevented that somehow. It was up around 20000 some hits.

Anyone else having trouble getting the downloads, the last couple of nights in Houston?

All the major networks: 2-1, 11-1, 13-1, 26-1 all show "no listing" And just last night only a tiny amount of 8-1 came through. (Days 6,7, & 8 are "no listings" except for just a few stations?)

Is this due to the PBS problems and/or something wrong with the VBI?

OR

Has the entire grid changed again because of the Comcast mess? And everything has to be reset?

According to Sony engineer, the unit will automatically search for a new guide channel if it hasn't received data for three days.

Ray

Thanks. Will wait for that to happen.

Anyone else having trouble getting the downloads, the last couple of nights in Houston?

All the major networks: 2-1, 11-1, 13-1, 26-1 all show "no listing" And just last night only a tiny amount of 8-1 came through. (Days 6,7, & 8 are "no listings" except for just a few stations?)

Is this due to the PBS problems and/or something wrong with the VBI?

OR

Has the entire grid changed again because of the Comcast mess? And everything has to be reset?

See above. I am waiting for one unit to find a new VBI Channel. But on two other units, one in a different zip code, something is seriously wrong with the downloads. It seems only day one may be downloading. One week out shows no listings. Like you an almost entire grid may be empty except for one or two listings on some random channel.

This is Cablevision in northern NJ.

It may be that local Houston PBS 8-0 was off the air the last 2 or 3 nights; maybe doing new equipment? So maybe that is why we did not get the TV Guide downloads, or only partial downloads? Yes, I will leave the box alone for now.

these won't exactly be paperweights come 2009 if the time / guide data doesn't come over. It just becomes an ATSC / QAM tuner which you can so happen to pause live TV and do a manual (in front of the TV, push the record button) recording.

I agree about using the Sony DVRs as ATSC tuners with trick play features, but the manual recording unfortunately doesn't work like a VCR. You can't turn it on, change to the channel you want to record, and press record. This doesn't work. I experimented with this, thinking I could use a programmable smart remote control with timer to continue making scheduled recordings with no date/time/guide in the Sony.
Pressing record (long enough) will bring up the manual record menu, but without the correct date/time, this is fairly useless. With no program guide data, the Sony divides time up into 30 minute intervals. Starting a recording blindly (without the date/time correct) will record anywhere from 1 to 30 minutes, depending on how far off the clock is from the actual time. This is because starting a recording manually "now", just starts recording the current program from the listing. With no guide data, it will just be the current 30 minute time block.
Fortunately for me (OTA only), the local FOX station (XETV), which transmits the time data and TVGOs data, will continue broadcasting it's analog signal after the US cuttoff date. The analog cutoff date in Mexico is much later (2020).

.

To find your host channel, you have to follow the directions in my Resource Guide under this section:
2.1.8 How do I find my Host Channel?

Enter the Service Menu for TVGOS (See 2.2.2)

(System Info) chart will appear. Press <RIGHT> to go to second page. 5 entries down on the list it will say "Host Channel". It will appear as 0:0-XX (example: 0:0-11), the XX is your Host Channel. In the example shown, the "0" (zero) PRECEDING the colon indicates that it is OTA channel 11. If the digit PRECEDING the colon is a "1", then it is showing CABLE channel 11 is the host.

What channel is listed here?[/QUOTE]

Hi Spiff:

Can't tell you right now what the host channel is - my hdd250 is on the way to the Sony Technology Center for repair. Will check after I have the unit back. Will also ask the CE at QED about transmission of the guide data from 13.1. Thanks.

I have a sony dhg-hdd250 is there a way to burn to dvd the shows on my hard drive?

It may be that local Houston PBS 8-0 was off the air the last 2 or 3 nights; maybe doing new equipment? So maybe that is why we did not get the TV Guide downloads, or only partial downloads? Yes, I will leave the box alone for now.

Might also be a problem in the NY area.No listings for the past few days and the host channel is empty.I'm on Comcast in Northern New Jersey.

I have a sony dhg-hdd250 is there a way to burn to dvd the shows on my hard drive?
Yes, I do it, to my Sony RDR-HX715 DVD recorder w/160gb hard drive. I think I use S-video, but maybe component, have to check.

We are having Guide problems here in Los Angeles too... same as HoustonPerson. My Guide is ok until next Monday at 5pm and then it has scattered outages and by Tuesday 5pm next week, it is all No Listings on my DHG-HDD500. My VBI packets test still shows PASS however.

I have a sony dhg-hdd250 is there a way to burn to dvd the shows on my hard drive?

I have recorded DVDs on my Toshiba XS32 using the S video and L/R audio.

Ray

We are having Guide problems here in Los Angeles too... same as HoustonPerson. My Guide is ok until next Monday at 5pm and then it has scattered outages and by Tuesday 5pm next week, it is all No Listings on my DHG-HDD500. My VBI packets test still shows PASS however.

I just confirmed your observations. Hopefully the guide will fill in. I just set recordings for both manual and guide so programs get recorded either way, assuming clock continues to work.

I also checked my TV guide on my TW recorder. That guide is filled in through Aug 8.

Ray

Same issue in MN starting Monday evening the guide data is mostly missing. This is really bizzare that a country wide TV guide listing issue is happening.

Anybody with OTA only have an issue with next weeks guide data?

We are having Guide problems here in Los Angeles too... same as HoustonPerson. My Guide is ok until next Monday at 5pm and then it has scattered outages and by Tuesday 5pm next week, it is all No Listings on my DHG-HDD500. My VBI packets test still shows PASS however.

We are having Guide problems here in Los Angeles too... same as HoustonPerson. My Guide is ok until next Monday at 5pm and then it has scattered outages and by Tuesday 5pm next week, it is all No Listings on my DHG-HDD500. My VBI packets test still shows PASS however.

Occasionally they do a change and it f**ks up everything in a ridiculous way.
I hate it because I have to re-order the program guide. ( Why can't they give one the option of numerical order? Stupid design at its best!)

Of course, worst case, TVguide is going bankrupt and hasn't told us. Hope not.

Best advice, have patience, and then dedicate a day to re-ordering channels as you see fit.

Well the Comcast Conspiracy Theory seems sound to me.

From a business standpoint Comcast does not want OTA to be alive, and will do anything they can to kill it. So have they already pulled the plug on TV Guide On-Screen?

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3ie30fda579d8c1d3fe9b14ddf3e6f62c5


And what I really want to know: What is the standing on the CBS Digital On-Screen contract?

So if Comcast does own Gemstar, guess that means they own these contracts?

http://www.dmwmedia.com/tags/gemstar-tv-guide/feed

Is this "conflict of interest" OR "we own the world"

Same issue in MN starting Monday evening the guide data is mostly missing. This is really bizzare that a country wide TV guide listing issue is happening.

Anybody with OTA only have an issue with next weeks guide data?

I get my guide OTA even though I also have cable. Next Wednesday's guide is virtually empty. There are a handful of stations that have listings.

I checked my other DVR which uses an older version of TVGOS. It is only connected to cable. I have no listings in my channel lineup. Comcast moved the host channel from 67 to 63. Channel 63 is not in my DVR's channel list. Unfortunately the only way to add channels to that DVR is to reset the device to factory defaults. This is the second time Comcast has moved the host channel this year.

Ok, with the current downloads out of wack, across the nation (and still out here in Houston); this is my game plan:

I have scheduled recordings in place through Sunday night, so I will let those continue in place.

Currently on Menu, System, Diagnostics on the IB: I have been receiving EIT in “white” not “green”. When that happens to me, that is telling me something is wrong (downloads not completing or defective or whatever).

On “Monday” when Monday and Tuesday roll into day position 1 and 2……….it will either correct or still be defective. If it is still defective then I will go through the re-set procedures (most likely only the step 3 is required; but I would probably do the 1, 2, & 3 since it takes no additional time anyway).

Remember that before (March/April) when “old grid” was replaced with “new grid” a period of greater than 8 days had to pass before this actually worked; because the two grids (“placeholders”) were not compatible.

And if that does not work we may have “doorstops” sooner than we thought!

Well, I still have the lockup issue. I've tried 1,2,3 four times now, and just tried a factory reset last night. Nothing will keep my box from locking up when watching a show while it's recording. What a pain in the ***. Has it not worked for anyone else? Or am I the only one who hasn't been able to keep their box from locking up?

Well, I still have the lockup issue. I've tried 1,2,3 four times now, and just tried a factory reset last night. Nothing will keep my box from locking up when watching a show while it's recording. What a pain in the ***. Has it not worked for anyone else? Or am I the only one who hasn't been able to keep their box from locking up?

I do not know the answer if it is not working?

My box is on the original software version .05 I think it is? I have never updated it. Also, I do not use cable which I think we all know at this point makes the "operation" much more complex and problematic. It could be a combination of your cable company and/or cable card. (maybe a newer updated cable card?)

If you are using cable, can you remove the cable card, and try "OTA" only to see if it works after the re-set? Warning: I would not even try this with basically the entire TV Guide system broke..........wait until it is fixed.

On “Monday” when Monday and Tuesday roll into day position 1



I know for a fact that- at least up to and including last night- it is still receiving day 1. It's just not receiving the out days.

Occasionally they do a change and it f**ks up everything in a ridiculous way.
I hate it because I have to re-order the program guide. ( Why can't they give one the option of numerical order? Stupid design at its best!)

Later versions of the TVGuide software do provide a sort function for the channel lineup. My Panasonic DVR/DVD recorder has this. It is still a bit lame, as it just says sort (sort by what?). Turns out it's by channel number.

Ok, with the current downloads out of wack, across the nation (and still out here in Houston); this is my game plan...

I'm not so sure that TVGOS is hosed across the country. I haven't seen any problems since the disruption a few months ago when they enabled the ads. I'm receiving TVGOS via OTA channel 5 in the Minneapolis area and am not having any problems recording.

I'm not so sure that TVGOS is hosed across the country. I haven't seen any problems since the disruption a few months ago when they enabled the ads. I'm receiving TVGOS via OTA channel 5 in the Minneapolis area and am not having any problems recording.

Did you confirm Days 7 and 8 in the Guide?

Have there been major cable company changes (owner changes, program changes, channel line up changes) in your area? Even if you do not use cable?

Mark,

You wont see any recording issues yet, because the missing data starts next monday evening. It may correct itself as time goes by. I also receive my TVGOS from channel 5 in the Minneapolis area and over half of the data after monday evening is missing.

I'm not so sure that TVGOS is hosed across the country. I haven't seen any problems since the disruption a few months ago when they enabled the ads. I'm receiving TVGOS via OTA channel 5 in the Minneapolis area and am not having any problems recording.

You mentioned the "big reset" to fix the "freeze " problem during recording. I have similar problem. Can you describe in details what is the "big reset" means. Thanks !

If you are using cable, can you remove the cable card, and try "OTA" only to see if it works after the re-set? Warning: I would not even try this with basically the entire TV Guide system broke..........wait until it is fixed.

No CableCard here. I'm using Clear-QAM. The lockup is predictable as ever, without any changes after the four 123 resets and a factory reset. I'll check my version when I get home, but the version is an older one, I believe. I think .07 or .08.

Same issue in MN starting Monday evening the guide data is mostly missing. This is really bizzare that a country wide TV guide listing issue is happening.

Anybody with OTA only have an issue with next weeks guide data?


No data day 7 and day 8. I'm using OTA host channel 22 pbs out of DC.

I'm over the air in Chicago, and I'm missing listings starting 1:30am Tuesday. I'm getting the guide via PBS Channel 11, and have been for quite sometime. No explanation as to why there is an issue now.

Well, I still have the lockup issue. I've tried 1,2,3 four times now, and just tried a factory reset last night. Nothing will keep my box from locking up when watching a show while it's recording. What a pain in the ***. Has it not worked for anyone else? Or am I the only one who hasn't been able to keep their box from locking up?

Remember if you can do this? Try OTA only - no cable at all. And in your re-set proceedure inject the zip code "00000" routine and then do it all again with the correct zip code.

I am still feeling the combination of bad grid in the box and current cable channel line up is at the cause of your freeze up

Also, please remember this is all for naught until the overall TV Guide stuff is corrected.

Once the dust settles, and you do OTA only with the "00000" routine, and the box still freezes (locks up) then the box is bad; which means send it to Sony for repair. There should be an internal error code set for the freeze, and Sony should be able to tell you how to get to it over the phone.

Unfortunately there's no OTA in our area, hence clear-QAM cable. Thanks for the help, anyhow. At this point, I'm just tempted to sell it and pick up one of those new cheap S3s... considering how long it's been, I don't have much confidence in getting the proper guide and channel line-up anytime soon (so it doesn't lock up).

I am using OTA here in RI and losing guide info constantly on both my DVR's. Soft reboot helped, but not much. What is happening?

Checked my guide tonight and HoustonPerson is right (as usual) - the guide is only sparsely populated after about 6:30 PM Monday evening...

Seattle area people, I have a strange situation and wonder if I'm alone. I am unable to receive OTA channels 4.1 and 7.1, but I can get 5.1, 9.1/9.5, 11.1, 13.1, 16.1, 22.1, etc. Since these digital channels are all UHF, I have no reason to suspect my antenna system. Can anyone else get 4.1 and 7.1?

Checked my guide tonight and HoustonPerson is right (as usual) - the guide is only sparsely populated after about 6:30 PM Monday evening...

Same situation here in the San Francisco Bay Area (host KQED channel 9).

My daughter, who lives in Phoenix, has a 500 recorder, and it is missing guide data, which comes OTA. Since everyone seems to have the same problem, its source must be tv guide. I wonder if someone on this thread is able to contact them and find out why the grid isn't being updated.
Ray

Same situation here in the San Francisco Bay Area (host KQED channel 9).

Same here in the Indianapolis area (via Bright House Networks cable in Carmel).

Marc

Ok, the "white" EIT (meaing bad or incomplete downloads); has turned back to "green" this morning (meaning the box is supposed to be happy).

About the first half of the upcoming Monday has rolled in correctly.

AND next Friday at 7Pm forward is now 100% complete and accurate.

(most of the week from part of Monday to next Friday ato 6:30PM is about 80% "no listings"..........that is to be expected)

In looking to the system menus, my VBI channel is no longer PBS 8
It is now FOX 26. It reads as follows: VBI Chan: 0:26-1

I assume that means analogue RF # 26 and the -1 means "on"? I do not think that means digital 26-1? (because the RF # for the digital here is "27")

Can someone clear that part of it up for me? I am not getting digital downloads am I?


Someone above (sorry I do not remember) said, the when the box goes "stupid" for a few days it starts looking for a new host..........and I guess that is what it has done here?

Mark,

You wont see any recording issues yet, because the missing data starts next monday evening. It may correct itself as time goes by. I also receive my TVGOS from channel 5 in the Minneapolis area and over half of the data after monday evening is missing.


I get my guid info from channel 17 PBS in Minneapolis and I see the same issue. I did get all the guid listing this am, for next friday but only after the 6pm time slot. No listing before 7pm for Aug 3rd.

Unfortunately there's no OTA in our area, hence clear-QAM cable. Thanks for the help, anyhow. At this point, I'm just tempted to sell it and pick up one of those new cheap S3s... considering how long it's been, I don't have much confidence in getting the proper guide and channel line-up anytime soon (so it doesn't lock up).

Well at this point (with all the changes that seem to be taking place nationwide). If there is a change of VBI source in your area, it could take another week for your cable company to make that change too(assuming they are fast and on top of things). Then do the re-set up, and it might work?

It appears that PBS may no longer be handling the VBI and that FOX may be doing that now? But your cable company has to make "changes" as well, to get that to you?

During the next few days others will chim in, to see if that is the case for them as well?

It appears that PBS may no longer be handling the VBI and that FOX may be doing that now?
Why would Fox be handling the VBI data when CBS has the contract to do it now? Or did I miss something?

Thanks

For the first time (ever), I have "no listing" for quite a few stations. It's odd that I have "partial" listings... I have listings for CBS, Hallmark, Lifetime... but not for PBS, FOX...etc. :confused:
Monday on.

just checked the host info

Host Ch 1:0-9
VBI Ch 1:5-1

Channel 9 in Seattle is PBS
Channel 5.1 is NBC Digital

Does this mean Comcast has put the VBI signal on an digital channel? :eek:

thewarm, be sure to check the "end" of day 8..........is it still "no listings" or has correct info started to appear (after 7PM Friday)

Why would Fox be handling the VBI data when CBS has the contract to do it now? Or did I miss something?

Thanks

Gemstar has stated they are doing different testing (delivery routines) for different cities (has something to do with "local" ownership of the local stations?) So far that means PBS, FOX, and CBS AFAIK for the OTA and in some cable situations they will be doing something different again.

To me, this is all "testing" I guess, until they get into a situation that they can make most of the nation CBS. But if Comcast does end up owning them, who knows?

thewarm, be sure to check the "end" of day 8..........is it still "no listings" or has correct info started to appear (after 7PM Friday)

Just checked. I have complete listings for next Friday late night! Does the VBI = 1:5-1 mean that I am receiving guide info from digital channel 5.1?

thewarm, I do not think that is what that means. I have the same question for me. Mine reads 0:26-1 But I think that means the analogue download is turned "on" for me (that is the -1). Some tech guru may know on this thread?

HoustonPerson, I have channel 9 (PBS analog) and channel 5 (NBC analog) turned off in the Guide.

> It appears that PBS may no longer be handling the VBI and that FOX
> may be doing that now?

For Houston,TX both PBS Ch8 and Fox Ch26 have been the hosts.

Think of Gemstar/TVGOS as a syndicated program. See Spiff's FAQ for the variety of hosts- mainly PBS, but there are others.

HoustonPerson knows about my situation of having 2 DVRs - one on each host - in Houston. I'll have to check my current hosts.

Sometimes he makes wild statements....he is the supposed "TVGOS guru"....at least in his own mind... :)

Someone above (sorry I do not remember) said, the when the box goes "stupid" for a few days it starts looking for a new host..........and I guess that is what it has done here?



My experience has been that it will only go looking if it receives no infomation what so ever. If it is getting partial listings, the box does not "hunt" for a new channel.

Opinionated wrote:
> I know for a fact that- at least up to and including last night- it is still
> receiving day 1. It's just not receiving the out days.

I can backup that statement. Thanks Opinionated - good observation!

Yesterday I added a few channels to the program listing.

Today, those channels' days 1 and 2 have good listings. That explains why we haven't seen a mess this week.

Days 5 and 8 (for next week) are incomplete.

Remember guys my previous post #10163 (and others). If you are using OTA and under the system diagnostic if EIT is "white" you have a problem, when it turns "green" the box is receiving downloads correctly.

It takes one second to check that screen first thing in the morning. After a full week of "white", this is the first morning it was "green". That is when I discovered my box went to a new host with 100% correct downloads (even for PBS).

KWG can you answer the question in my post #10163 please, I think you know; but I do not...........what exactly is 0:26-1 ?

Just checked. I have complete listings for next Friday late night! Does the VBI = 1:5-1 mean that I am receiving guide info from digital channel 5.1?

VBI channel is the channel you are currently tuned to. Host channel is from where you get the data.

BUT, everything we thought we knew may be changing.

I too now have data for next Friday after 8PM. That means obviously that I am getting data. But, my 500 unit still shows the host channel as PBS Channel 13. That channel is no longer getting VBI packets (data). It is now coming on the TV listings scroll on channel 14. The 250 unit, next to the 500, on which I reset the TV Guide, is showing the host as 14.

So how is it that the 500, listing as the host a channel that is not receiving any data, is?

I had a comcast guy here last night to install a cable card into my 250 and he had no idea what he was doing. He bitched about cable cards the whole time.

Gonna try again with a "lead tech." Anything I should ask about and/or request (specific version of a card) before I re-schedule?

Thanks for the help. I'm in Minneapolis.

VBI channel is the channel you are currently tuned to. Host channel is from where you get the data.

BUT, everything we thought we knew may be changing.

I too now have data for next Friday after 8PM. That means obviously that I am getting data. But, my 500 unit still shows the host channel as PBS Channel 13. That channel is no longer getting VBI packets (data). It is now coming on the TV listings scroll on channel 14. The 250 unit, next to the 500, on which I reset the TV Guide, is showing the host as 14.

So how is it that the 500, listing as the host a channel that is not receiving any data, is?
Thank you :)

VBI channel is the channel you are currently tuned to. Host channel is from where you get the data.

BUT, everything we thought we knew may be changing.



Yes that use to be true; but the morning regardless of which channel I was on the VBI chan: 0:26-1 stayed the same?

So there is some stuff that is different. I just hope the green light stays green and I get downloads everynight now. I don't care if the post man brings them!

Gemstar has stated they are doing different testing (delivery routines) for different cities (has something to do with "local" ownership of the local stations?) So far that means PBS, FOX, and CBS AFAIK for the OTA and in some cable situations they will be doing something different again.

In my area, the TVGOs data stream has been carried on four local stations for the past three years at least (FOX, CBS, ABC, and PBS). I don't think this is anything new. My guide data for next Monday is filled in for all of the local market stations, but no listing for all of the out of market stations (I'm OTA only). It is also possible that Gemstar is using some if the available TVGOs data stream bandwidth to transmit other data (ads, FW updates, etc.) in addition to the guide data, knowing that the guide will fill in eventually.

If TVGOS can display ads in the guide, then they should post a message in the ad area alerting us to system tests, changes or whatever. I guess they don't care about being customer friendly.

Myoda,

Are you basing this conclusion on the fact that the info on the left says "Pass" next to ATSC? If so, this doesn't mean that your guide data is coming from a digital station. It isn't clear at this time what that ATSC "pass" actually means. Mine has been passing that test since day 1, but my host channel is an analog cable channel. These appear to be tests that are checking for items IN ADDITION to the VBI packet checking. It is important to remember that VBI data can ONLY be present in an analog signal. There is no such thing as a Vertical Blanking Interval on a digital channel.



I'm wondering how a digital channel can pass the VBI test. That doesn't seem to make sense, but that's what the screenshot shows.

HoustonPerson wrote:
> In looking to the system menus, my VBI channel is no longer PBS 8
> It is now FOX 26. It reads as follows: VBI Chan: 0:26-1
>
> KWG what exactly is 0:26-1 ?

Supposedly that is the current tuned-to channel, as Opinionated said. It would be digital 26 subchannel 1 (ie. 26.1). I don't know why it is not changing for you.

I checked the host on our second DVR and it is still PBS Ch8. (0:0-8). And the other (0:0-26).

Umm, you only mention "VBI Channel" - what is your current "Host Channel" showing?

Did Gemstar ever follow up with anyone here on that 1-800 number "win an iPod" survey?

[QUOTE=HoustonPerson]Ok, the "white" EIT (meaing bad or incomplete downloads); has turned back to "green" this morning (meaning the box is supposed to be happy).

About the first half of the upcoming Monday has rolled in correctly.

AND next Friday at 7Pm forward is now 100% complete and accurate.

(most of the week from part of Monday to next Friday ato 6:30PM is about 80% "no listings"..........that is to be expected)


--------------------------
That is what is happening here in LA too. My EIT is green and I now have the eighth day (next Friday) from 5pm to midnight all filled in. There is nothing from 5pm Monday to 5pm Friday yet. I am strictly OTA here with data coming from the local analog PBS station on channel 28 using a roof antenna.

And speaking of white and green EIT displays, does anyone know what all of those other letters stand for on the diagnostic screen?

HoustonPerson wrote:
> In looking to the system menus, my VBI channel is no longer PBS 8
> It is now FOX 26. It reads as follows: VBI Chan: 0:26-1
>
> KWG what exactly is 0:26-1 ?

Supposedly that is the current tuned-to channel, as Opinionated said. It would be digital 26 subchannel 1 (ie. 26.1). I don't know why it is not changing for you.

I checked the host on our second DVR and it is still PBS Ch8. (0:0-8). And the other (0:0-26).

Umm, you only mention "VBI Channel" - what is your current "Host Channel" showing?

yes you both are correct. Funny discovery after lunch, when I got back to the house.

If you "tune" directly from the TV Guide listings page........the VBI channel will never change. If you direct "tune" by just punching in the channels Like 2-1, 20-1, 39-1..........the VBI Channel will show the last station dialed.

Therefore my box still shows the same Host PBS 8-0 (which has never changed); it has always been that since day one.

IT'S SUNSPOTS!

Did Gemstar ever follow up with anyone here on that 1-800 number "win an iPod" survey?

I WON!

............ And speaking of white and green EIT displays, does anyone know what all of those other letters stand for on the diagnostic screen?

The ATSC Document at the attached link has the IB acronyms listed and discussed.

PAT - Program Association Table
PMT - Program Map Table
MGT - Master Guide Table
TVCT - Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table
CVCT - Cable Virtual Channel Table
EIT - Event Information Table
STT - System Time Table


http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_65cr1_with_amend_1.pdf

[QUOTE=WS65711]The ATSC Document at the attached link has the IB acronyms listed and discussed.

PAT - Program Association Table
PMT - Program Map Table
MGT - Master Guide Table
TVCT - Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table
CVCT - Cable Virtual Channel Table
EIT - Event Information Table
STT - System Time Table

_______________________

Thank You!

OK... I am new to this forum... How do I get the quote from a previous message in the box?

Thanks WS65711, good explanation.

I will say it again - the "VBI" channel indicated in the diagnostics channel is NOT the same as the host channel. It is the channel that you were tuned to when you went into the diagnostics menu.

[QUOTE=WS65711]The ATSC Document at the attached link has the IB acronyms listed and discussed.

PAT - Program Association Table
PMT - Program Map Table
MGT - Master Guide Table
TVCT - Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table
CVCT - Cable Virtual Channel Table
EIT - Event Information Table
STT - System Time Table

_______________________

Thank You!

OK... I am new to this forum... How do I get the quote from a previous message in the box?

Don't delete the [ /QUOTE] tag when replying :)

[QUOTE=Tucknan]

Don't delete the [ /QUOTE] tag when replying :)

Thank you.

Re-sets are not required. EIT is still green for two days now.

The total number of "placeholders" have had a net gain of "7". From 475 to 482, this is due to the cable line up changes in our area (Comcast).

Even though the number of placeholders has changed, the data grid formats are the same; therefore the box does not have to be re-set in any way.


Local PBS issues:

Our local programming for PBS has changed a lot, and in the long run this is all good. Particularly as PBS both national and local deliver more HD.

Some of the local PBS 8-1 will in fact be HD programs, but may not have the HD flag attached. There are several programs listed on 8-2 as HD; but that channel shows SD only. Those HD flags are simply carried in from the national PBS descriptions: For example: 8-2 Aug 4 11PM the Guide list "PBS Previews" a 30 min program in HD (but SD on 8-2). This previews a 14 hour documentary to be shown in September and should be on 8-1 in HD? Over the next few months most of those little wrinkles (HD flags on PBS) should be a thing of the past.......it's not a big deal.

My 7/28/07 status report:

Days 1, 2 and 8 are complete.

Day 5 is okay after 4:30am.

Maybe the big scare/test/reset/experiment is over for now. Last night I got days 1, 2, 5, and 8 filled in. I suppose someone not really checking schedules ahead of the current day would ever have known something on a national level was going on with TVGOS. I wonder if anyone with a different TVGOS enabled device, like a TV, noticed an outage in listings this week.

Thanks to all who posted here about the outage, as it kept me from having to panic and do a series of resets, etc.

Maybe the big scare/test/reset/experiment is over for now. Last night I got days 1, 2, 5, and 8 filled in. I suppose someone not really checking schedules ahead of the current day would ever have known something on a national level was going on with TVGOS. I wonder if anyone with a different TVGOS enabled device, like a TV, noticed an outage in listings this week.

Thanks to all who posted here about the outage, as it kept me from having to panic and do a series of resets, etc.
I have a Panasonic DVD Recorder and am located in Southern California (presumably using the same PBS station you are to get the listings, i.e. KCET) and I had the same problems and finally got a complete listings download last night.

See the following thread, beginning on 7/26 for a discussion I had with HoustonPerson and bwall23 on this TVGOS problem.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=510125&page=62&pp=30

I had to do a hard reset on one of my units. When I turned it on, the tuner would tune the channel and show the guide data, but no video would show up. Don't know what happened. I did a service menu factory reset last night and it was working. Have the time now, and haven't tried it again although it did tune the channels with picture and sound last night.

Very strange...first issue I've had with either of my units in the 1 year I've owned them.

still sparsely populated here.....

Remember guys, each major market in the USA got implemented and corrected at slightly different times across the USA last March/April. I think the entire nation was done in less than a month.

This time for Houston, it was only out for about 5-6 days, and appears to be only for new "placeholders" because of cable. The change was not the major big change like last March/April

In Houston it's all good. This is the third night with perfect downloads. I think there are only 3 days in the middle that have missing program listings.

Under the System Diag for IB:

PAT - Program Association Table GREEN
PMT - Program Map Table GREEN
MGT - Master Guide Table WHITE (normally green)
TVCT - Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table WHITE (normally green)
CVCT - Cable Virtual Channel Table WHITE (always white, not using cable)
EIT - Event Information Table WHITE (normally green)
STT - System Time Table GREEN

To me this means after Gemstar is finished with the changes, they will go back to GREEN


On the 482 "placeholders" many (about 60%) of the logos attached to the call letters have become very "artisitic". Sort of amazing how much detail they can get into a logo. But afterall it is HD LOL

In Houston it's all good. This is the third night with perfect downloads. I think there are only 3 days in the middle that have missing program listings.

Under the System Diag for IB:

PAT - Program Association Table GREEN
PMT - Program Map Table GREEN
MGT - Master Guide Table WHITE (normally green)
TVCT - Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table WHITE (normally green)
CVCT - Cable Virtual Channel Table WHITE (always white, not using cable)
EIT - Event Information Table WHITE (normally green)
STT - System Time Table GREEN

To me this means after Gemstar is finished with the changes, they will go back to GREEN



Everything is still good here in LA too. I have everything in the guide except Tuesday now. System Diag for IB are all green except CVCT (I do not have cable either, so that one is always white here). They were like that yesterday, as well. I get my data over the air from the PBS station on Channel 28.

It's really a shame that the TVGOS system is such a weak and vulnerable part of this box. Everything else about it has worked so well for me. Seems most of the dialogue in this forum thread is about the Guide and its problems.

From two post above:

Came back a couple of hours later and all the other items have turned back to Green; except of course the CVCT which stays white.

I had a comcast guy here last night to install a cable card into my 250 and he had no idea what he was doing. He bitched about cable cards the whole time.

Gonna try again with a "lead tech." Anything I should ask about and/or request (specific version of a card) before I re-schedule?

Thanks for the help. I'm in Minneapolis.


Just had Comcast service installed here in Dublin, Cali (Close to SF) by a Best Buy contractor. The 1st card he had installed in my 250 stated an error code of 161-1 (or similar) which meant the card was defective. He came back 2 hours later with another card and was able to get things past the error code screen. The next day the guide data was filled.

I'd recommend that they bring out at least 2 cable cards with them just in case one of them are defective.

maybe someone here can help me i am not using a dvr or any type of cable box straight cable into tv which is hitachi and until thursday had a channel lineup. now when i go to guide i get message there is no message for this screen i checked and there is no host channel listed under the service menu. i did a reset and reset the tvgos setup but still nothing. i know pbs channel 3 is my host in sw florida with comcast. i have a old rca with guide plus and it has working channel listings. i had this happen once before around thanksgiving and forgot how i got it to work again.

thanks for help

According to my 500 unit on Comcast in Northern New Jersey the new VBI channel is cable 111.0.There is no video on the channel and 111.1 is Channel 13(PBS) HD channel.

or where's the shotgun Betsy, it time to kill that thang!

Monday morning: EIT is WHITE
Following Monday (next week) is: 95% No Listings
About 50% of Tuesday (tomorrow) is: No Listings

If the nation has the same problem then its a Gemstar thing.
If it is only a Houston problem it would be a local PBS thing.

It might correct itself later in the day, which has happend on very rare occassions, a later part of the day update has made it happy before.........

In times past it use to be that the updates were taking place from 2AM to 4AM; now I have the feeling this is occuring from 4AM to 6AM. It is possible that we have the box "on" too early in the morning (often about 5:30AM)?

I believe our local PBS station is turning off during the night? But do not know if that affects it or not?

OK here. Must be local to you.

According to my 500 unit on Comcast in Northern New Jersey the new VBI channel is cable 111.0.There is no video on the channel and 111.1 is Channel 13(PBS) HD channel.

According to mine, my host channel remains PBS 13.

Problem is that the channel is failing the VBI test- where now the scroll listing channel 14 is passing- but my grid is now filling up again as with everyone else.

It may seems to mean we can no longer know for certain from which channel we are receiving our data as the former answer- whatever appeared as the host channel- is no longer valid.

To HoustonPerson: Data download last night was normal here.

If the nation has the same problem then its a Gemstar thing.
If it is only a Houston problem it would be a local PBS thing.

It might correct itself later in the day, which has happend on very rare occassions, a later part of the day update has made it happy before.........

In times past it use to be that the updates were taking place from 2AM to 4AM; now I have the feeling this is occuring from 4AM to 6AM. It is possible that we have the box "on" too early in the morning (often about 5:30AM)?

I believe our local PBS station is turning off during the night? But do not know if that affects it or not?
Yesterday, I only received listings after the last (fourth) download of the day. After each of the first three, I had NO LISTINGS. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to check this morning after the first download period. I will have to wait until later to see if I got listings today.

In the past, it has not been unusual for the first download period (the one between 2:20am and 5:20am) to not get listings because the cable company was doing things that affected the channels. I've seen the interruptions while watching programs during that time.

Don't give up until your unit fails to get a download after all four possible downloads, of course it means you have to keep the unit off during all that time. I usually turn it on during the latter parts of the download to check it and if it still hasn't gotten anything I turn it off again.

It would be really nice if there were an indication on the front of the unit while it is "turned off" to indicate

a) It is in the process of receiving a download
b) It received a complete download already this day.

That way we could know when it is necessary to leave the unit off and when it is safe to use. Since I use TVGOS on a DVD Recorder, it has less impact to leave the unit off than if my television used TVGOS directly. Leaving the DVD Recorder off is certainly less disruptive than not being able to use the television.

As far as the download times changing, at least on my Panasonic in the Setup maintenance screens it indicates when the "Next DL" will be. You could check that during the day to see if the download times have changed.

I've had my my 250 for about 2 years. Originally, I was using the unit with a Philips 42pf9630 42" plasma connected via HDMI. The 250 was connected to cable tv and OTA. With this setup, the DVR’s screen format would stay at the appointed 1080i.

I’ve replaced my tv with a Panasonic 50px75u 50”, the DVR is still connected via hdmi with OTA and cable tv signal but now with a cable card. Now, everytime I turn this tv off, the DVR reverts the format to AUTOHDMI.

In previous posts, users have recommended to turn the tv on first then dvr on second (w/ dvr off first and tv off last), and also performing a factory reset (warm reboot) as noted on spiffpace.com. Neither has remedied the AUTOHDMI for this setup.

What is interesting is that when I power down the DVR but keep the monitor on, the DVR maintains the screen format to 1080i as selected.

Any suggestions on keeping the screen format?

Under the System Diag for IB:

PAT - Program Association Table GREEN
PMT - Program Map Table GREEN
MGT - Master Guide Table WHITE (normally green)
TVCT - Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table WHITE (normally green)
CVCT - Cable Virtual Channel Table WHITE (always white, not using cable)
EIT - Event Information Table WHITE (normally green)
STT - System Time Table GREEN

To me this means after Gemstar is finished with the changes, they will go back to GREEN



Here in Portsmouth, RI I have all green in the list above except CVCT but that would be normal as I usa OTA signal only. However, I only have listings through Thurs (8/2 3 days from now)midday, then they become sporadic with some channel listings correct and some still say "no listing".

Not sure when the update came through but all my channel listings reverted back to Network groupings and I had to reorder everything again.

The TiVo service is not free, but NE1 thinking about getting the new TiVo HD with dual Cablecard and ATSC tuners for $299 next month? It records 20 hours in HD. Perhaps the units will be cheaper and record more HD time with lower monthly rates when NTSC goes dark and our DHG-HDD's no longer work (Feb 2009).

I've had my my 250 for about 2 years. Originally, I was using the unit with a Philips 42pf9630 42" plasma connected via HDMI. The 250 was connected to cable tv and OTA. With this setup, the DVR’s screen format would stay at the appointed 1080i.

I’ve replaced my tv with a Panasonic 50px75u 50”, the DVR is still connected via hdmi with OTA and cable tv signal but now with a cable card. Now, everytime I turn this tv off, the DVR reverts the format to AUTOHDMI.

In previous posts, users have recommended to turn the tv on first then dvr on second (w/ dvr off first and tv off last), and also performing a factory reset (warm reboot) as noted on spiffpace.com. Neither has remedied the AUTOHDMI for this setup.

What is interesting is that when I power down the DVR but keep the monitor on, the DVR maintains the screen format to 1080i as selected.

Any suggestions on keeping the screen format?

Basically, the newest TV's have better HDMI.....and the Sony box knows this because it is smart HDMI. The AutoHDMI should always be locked into 720p on that set. AFAIK, it you want to force it too 1080i, you might try 1080i setting only (most likely will not work) OR change to component to force 1080i OR select "native"

My newest Samsung HLT does exactly the same thing. My older Samsung HLS would let my use "native" on HDMI.

Also, confirm what is happening on your Panasonic..........(I think it is the "recall" button). When the Sony Box is in AutoHDMI, I assume the Pana is showing 720p under that "recall" or "info" button?

The TiVo service is not free......

If you have multiple TiVo units (at a single location) do you have to pay for multiple subscriptions?

Basically, the newest TV's have better HDMI.....and the Sony box knows this because it is smart HDMI. The AutoHDMI should always be locked into 720p on that set. AFAIK, it you want to force it too 1080i, you might try 1080i setting only (most likely will not work) OR change to component to force 1080i OR select "native"

My newest Samsung HLT does exactly the same thing. My older Samsung HLS would let my use "native" on HDMI.

Also, confirm what is happening on your Panasonic..........(I think it is the "recall" button). When the Sony Box is in AutoHDMI, I assume the Pana is showing 720p under that "recall" or "info" button?

Thanks for the reply Houston. For these tests, I've made sure that the channel is a 480i feed requiring the DVR to upscale to 1080i out via HDMI. After turning the tv and dvr on (while tuned into the 480i channel), I push the TV Guide button, and the guide that is displayed is the lower quallity 480i/p guide. The guide looks significantly better when fed the 720p/1080i output from the DVR.

I've also removed the CableCard to see if it was the culprit. The same situation occured without the CableCard. It probabley has to do with the Panny.

What do you mean by "smart" and/or "better" HDMI?

If you have multiple TiVo units (at a single location) do you have to pay for multiple subscriptions?

Yes, but at a discounted rate...I would suspect that if the non-subscription DVR's stop working in 2009, TiVo will just raise their rates...captive audience with no free alternative (especially OTA only)

Thanks for the reply Houston. For these tests, I've made sure that the channel is a 480i feed requiring the DVR to upscale to 1080i out via HDMI. After turning the tv and dvr on (while tuned into the 480i channel), I push the TV Guide button, and the guide that is displayed is the lower quallity 480i/p guide. The guide looks significantly better when fed the 720p/1080i output from the DVR.

I've also removed the CableCard to see if it was the culprit. The same situation occured without the CableCard. It probabley has to do with the Panny.

What do you mean by "smart" and/or "better" HDMI?

By smater or better, I mean the HDMI (which is two way comunication between the devices)........is improved each each year.

Use the "recall" button or info button on your panasonic, that will tell you what is being fed to it.

Basically it should always be 720p regardless of what station you are tuned to on the Sony Remote.

tune to a 480i station on the sony box (forget about the Guide for now), hit the "info" button on the Sony Box.........at the top of the screen it should tell you what the source is: like 480i 720p 1080i BUT when you hit the recall button (or info) button on the Panasonic, it will most likely show 720P no matter what you feed it. Try all three in the Sony Box (480,720,1080); but the panny will always show 720.

That is because the Sony box "test" the Pana and classifies it as a 720p set therefore it always send it 720p no mater what is coming into the Sony box or how it is recorded.

This means:

The "info" button on the Sony will always tell you the source resolution and how it was recorded.

The "recall" info button on the Panny will always tell the resoluiton it receives from the Sony.

The AutoHDMI from the Sony will always send it 720p so it will always show 720p via the "recall" on the Pana; because the two devices talk to each other and confirm that is what they are supposed to do.

The above is how the current HLT Samsung specs their HDMI (and I assume Panna as well?). Last years HLS Samsung was little different: in that case I could set the Sony to "native" mode (which I prefered)............meaning however the Sony recorded the source of 480,720,1080.........then that is "exactly" what was sent to the TV set.

Last years HLS gave me more control on how I wanted to send data from the Sony to the Samsung via HDMI.........this years HLT is a more "automatedHDMI" and the devices control how they will talk to each other. If I now want 100% control, I have to use component.

remember forget the Guide for your test.

just direct tune to station you know on your Sony that are 480,720, and 1080 and confirm with the Sony "info" button.

Then confirm how your TV recieves it via the Panasonic "recall" button. That should tell you exactly what is going on.

The above is how the current HLT Samsung specs their HDMI (and I assume Panna as well?). Last years HLS Samsung was little different: in that case I could set the Sony to "native" mode (which I prefered)............meaning however the Sony recorded the source of 480,720,1080.........then that is "exactly" what was sent to the TV set.

This is the case for my new HLT also. The HLT replaced a JVC D-ILA which changed from 480 to 720 to 1080 with channel sources via HDMI. I didn't like this as the guide looked horrible at 480. I used component with the JVC. The Sammy maintaines 1080 for all source channels on Auto HDMI.

This is preferable to me as the Sony does a fair job with scaling and the Sammy just deinterlaces the 1080i to its native 1080P.

This is the case for my new HLT also. The HLT replaced a JVC D-ILA which changed from 480 to 720 to 1080 with channel sources via HDMI. I didn't like this as the guide looked horrible at 480. I used component with the JVC. The Sammy maintaines 1080 for all source channels on Auto HDMI.

This is preferable to me as the Sony does a fair job with scaling and the Sammy just deinterlaces the 1080i to its native 1080P.

What OKCrew says is correct his is a 1080p HLT...........mine is a 720p HLT therefore my Sammy sets the Sony box to 720p.....OKC's HLT sets it to 1080 from the Sony.

or where's the shotgun Betsy, it time to kill that thang!

Monday morning: EIT is WHITE
Following Monday (next week) is: 95% No Listings
About 50% of Tuesday (tomorrow) is: No Listings

If the nation has the same problem then its a Gemstar thing.
If it is only a Houston problem it would be a local PBS thing.



The guide is back to normal here, but EIT remains white. I don't know if it was ever green.

Yes, but at a discounted rate...I would suspect that if the non-subscription DVR's stop working in 2009, TiVo will just raise their rates...captive audience with no free alternative (especially OTA only)

I actually doubt that Tivo sees this Sony box as competition - even now. I don't think this box got enough market penetration to make a dent in the number of Tivo boxes out there (at least the total number of Tivo boxes). I think the release of the Tivo HD at 299, I think Tivo will actually start selling a lot of these.

Honestly, if my old Tivo S2 dies, I might consider buying one of these and popping another pair of cablecards in it. (Jeez - this would bring my total number of cablecards up to 7 if my Sony box is still functional. I wonder if there is a limit to how many you can have in one household?)

Anyway, I think the biggest competition to Tivo are the cableco's DVR's. While Comcast is gearing up to put tivo in their boxes, the other cableco's aren't doing this yet.

I am starting to ramble here, but the Tivo guide is rock-solid reliable in comparison to TVGOS. Clearly, the TVGOS portion of the Sony is it's weak point. If they had a function like Tivo that would connect to your home network, or to a phone line to get the guide data, this Sony could have been a contender - especially if there wasn't a fee for the guide download services.

Be careful, the Tivo's do not support Switched Digital Video, which many cable companys will be going to in order to carry more HD channels.

Be careful, the Tivo's do not support Switched Digital Video, which many cable companys will be going to in order to carry more HD channels.

Understood, but this is an issue with all of these 3rd party DVRs that are designed for current cablecards.

On another somewhat related note, I find the FCC's forcing of the cableco's to use cablecards in their STBs to be a joke. This was supposed to promote competition in the world of cable STB's.

Check out this link:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/19/cablecard-2-0-caught-in-the-wild/

One of the first STB's photographed in the wild that uses a cablecard has fully functional VOD and PPV. I fail to see how this levels the playing field, and I strongly suspect that these new cable boxes will handle SDV just fine...

The only weird thing I'm seeing with my guide is the following:

CBS 42-1 (Air) -- Current Day No listings
CBS 1531 (QAM) -- Current Day with complete listings

CBS 42-1 (Air) -- Next Day Complete Listings
CBS 1531 (QAM same local source) -- Next Day with complete listings

This happened both yesterday and today. My scheduled recording for today via the OTA signal did record fine. All the other stations are showing accurate data. It is like the update overnight loses the CBS listings for OTA only. I can also pick up another CBS channel via OTA only and its guide data has been just fine.

Ok there are still some problems with downloads, and this may be specific only to Houston.

Currently our local PBS station is "off the air" each Monday morning from 1AM to 5AM. That seems to kill the following day 8 download, as well as Day 2 replacement/correction to the download.

This may be related to our local PBS changing equipment, schedules, personnel, etc. They have generally indicated that it should take them a couple of months to get most of the wrinkles ironed out.

So for each Monday morning they are "off the air", that messing up a minimum of 2 days in the listings. And of course as day 8 rolls forward, it stays wrong all week; and unfortunately, it can stay wrong again as they go "off the air" the following week. Meaning I can get a day 1 or 2 once a week that is still messed up, until they roll out of the box.

If the problem remains next week. Then I will have to figure out how to do the forced changed from PBS to FOX for the downloads. (from 8-0 to 26-0)

btw, even this morning the EIT was white, it should change to green by noon.

Currently our local PBS station is "off the air" each Monday morning from 1AM to 5AM. That seems to kill the following day 8 download, as well as Day 2 replacement/correction to the download.


So for each Monday morning they are "off the air", that messing up a minimum of 2 days in the listings. And of course as day 8 rolls forward, it stays wrong all week; and unfortunately, it can stay wrong again as they go "off the air" the following week. Meaning I can get a day 1 or 2 once a week that is still messed up, until they roll out of the box.
This is contrary to everything I have read about the TVGOS downloads and my own experience. For example, the other day I got no listings from the 2:20am, 7:00am, or 10:05am downloads but did get complete information from the 1:45pm download.

My unit has version 7 of the TVGOS firmware and each day gets listings for that day, Day 2, Day 3, and Day 8. I know you've mentioned that your unit has version 8 of the firmware and that, presumably, is why you get downloads for different days but the principal should be the same that you can get complete data from any one of the downloads.

Each 3 hour download has complete listings so if a unit misses one then it can get the full data from a later download (of course, that is when things are working correctly).

I would guess that what you experienced is that part way into the download, it failed. If you had left your unit off for one of the subsequent download periods I think you would have gotten the missing data.

This is contrary to everything I have read about the TVGOS downloads and my own experience. For example, the other day I got no listings from the 2:20am, 7:00am, or 10:05am downloads but did get complete information from the 1:45pm download.

My unit has version 7 of the TVGOS firmware and each day gets listings for that day, Day 2, Day 3, and Day 8. I know you've mentioned that your unit has version 8 of the firmware and that, presumably, is why you get downloads for different days but the principal should be the same that you can get complete data from any one of the downloads.

Each 3 hour download has complete listings so if a unit misses one then it can get the full data from a later download (of course, that is when things are working correctly).

I would guess that what you experienced is that part way into the download, it failed. If you had left your unit off for one of the subsequent download periods I think you would have gotten the missing data.

I think we said the same thing(except for the days thing).......but my unit has been off, for example Sunday night to Monday morning it was off for 10 hours, and that was the time PBS was off the air. Yesterday it was off for another 10-12 hours. There is a "bubble" of some kind at our local PBS, so hopefully it will get resolved soon. Generally, downloads should be completed within 3 hours.

About 1/3 of the downloads during the last 2 weeks or so, have shown EIT as "white", telling there is some sort of failure in the download.

...

just direct tune to station you know on your Sony that are 480,720, and 1080 and confirm with the Sony "info" button.

Then confirm how your TV recieves it via the Panasonic "recall" button. That should tell you exactly what is going on.

I've tuned into a 480i channel and both the Sony DVR and the Panny Tv state 480i. What is occuring is when I turn off the DVR when tuned into a 480i/p channel and then the TV, after the handshake during power up, the DVR will output the original resolution of the channel it's on.

Here's another observation: during the warm reboot, I had the monitor off and the DVR stated 1080i on it's display window. When I turned the tv on while the DVR was on the same screen, the DVR then stated AUTOHDMI. I then turned the TV off and the DVR again stated 1080i.

I've tuned into a 480i channel and both the Sony DVR and the Panny Tv state 480i. What is occuring is when I turn off the DVR when tuned into a 480i/p channel and then the TV, after the handshake during power up, the DVR will output the original resolution of the channel it's on.
--------------------------
The above sentence is a little hard to follow; but this part sound like what my HLS Samsung would do, and not my HLT model.
--------------------------------
Here's another observation: during the warm reboot, I had the monitor off and the DVR stated 1080i on it's display window. When I turned the tv on while the DVR was on the same screen, the DVR then stated AUTOHDMI. I then turned the TV off and the DVR again stated 1080i.
--------------
The above sentence sounds correct to me. That is what mine would do.



The questions is: What do you want it to do? If the Panasonic has the very latest HDMI spec (like my HLT Samsung).........then generally, all you get is AutoHDMI. It could be that the Panasonic is "super smart" in this case, and if the AutoHDMI is sending the Panasonic 480i..........then maybe the Panasonic "wants it that way" so the Panasonic can do the conversion to 768p and prevents the Sony from sending 720p because it is a 480i source? (I do not know, I am not there).

Generally, it all sounds good to me.

However: If you do want 100% control, then the component may be your only choice. But I have a strong feeling the AutoHDMI via HDMI is the best.

Look at it this way using the AutoHDMI:

If the Sony box sends out ??? (test all three), then what does the Pana show ??? The tricky part here is that the Pana is a 768p set, so keep that in mind too.

Sony Source: Pana receives as determind by AutoHDMI:
1080i.............either 1080i or 720p (should never be 480i)
720p..............either 720p or 1080i (very unlikely 1080i and never 480i)
480i...............480i or 720p

Remember that once your Panasonic gets the above it will always take it too 768p. In other words Panasonic and Sony are talking to each other, and Panasonic has final say as the "best" and "most" accurate way to get to 768p.

So far I do not see a problem? Keep in mind I can be extremely slow at times!

The questions is: What do you want it to do? If the Panasonic has the very latest HDMI spec (like my HLT Samsung).........then generally, all you get is AutoHDMI. It could be that the Panasonic is "super smart" in this case, and if the AutoHDMI is sending the Panasonic 480i..........then maybe the Panasonic "wants it that way" so the Panasonic can do the conversion to 768p and prevents the Sony from sending 720p because it is a 480i source? (I do not know, I am not there).

Generally, it all sounds good to me.

However: If you do want 100% control, then the component may be your only choice. But I have a strong feeling the AutoHDMI via HDMI is the best.

Look at it this way using the AutoHDMI:

If the Sony box sends out ??? (test all three), then what does the Pana show ??? The tricky part here is that the Pana is a 768p set, so keep that in mind too.

Sony Source: Pana receives as determind by AutoHDMI:
1080i.............either 1080i or 720p (should never be 480i)
720p..............either 720p or 1080i (very unlikely 1080i and never 480i)
480i...............480i or 720p

Remember that once your Panasonic gets the above it will always take it too 768p. In other words Panasonic and Sony are talking to each other, and Panasonic has final say as the "best" and "most" accurate way to get to 768p.

So far I do not see a problem? Keep in mind I can be extremely slow at times!

What I would like the DVR to do is maintain the format I have selected to regardless of original source and/or if dvr or tv are turned off.

When I change the format on the dvr to 1080i, 720p, 480i, the Panny will coincide and state that it is receive the same. It is only when the tv is turned off that the format reverts to AutoHDMI.

Component may be the only way to resolve this, but if that's the case I may part with this unit. :mad:

I'll have to test the Moto Dual tuner DVR to see if the same thing occurs.

By smater or better, I mean the HDMI (which is two way comunication between the devices)........is improved each each year.

Use the "recall" button or info button on your panasonic, that will tell you what is being fed to it.

Basically it should always be 720p regardless of what station you are tuned to on the Sony Remote.

[snip]

just direct tune to station you know on your Sony that are 480,720, and 1080 and confirm with the Sony "info" button.

Then confirm how your TV recieves it via the Panasonic "recall" button. That should tell you exactly what is going on.
True, but it depends on the native resolution of the TV and how the two units are connected. I just did this test on my 2006-vintage Panasonic plasma. I have my Sony connected via component video input (recently changed it from HDMI for reasons not important here), and set to "Native" format. My Panny displays the same resolution that the Sony receives from the source and sends to the TV: 480i -> 480i; 720p -> 720p; 1080i -> 1080i.

Just another $0.02.

True, but it depends on the native resolution of the TV and how the two units are connected. I just did this test on my 2006-vintage Panasonic plasma. I have my Sony connected via component video input (recently changed it from HDMI for reasons not important here), and set to "Native" format. My Panny displays the same resolution that the Sony receives from the source and sends to the TV: 480i -> 480i; 720p -> 720p; 1080i -> 1080i.

Just another $0.02.


It seems as if my AutoHDMI format is reacting just like the Native format. The pitfall though is when I select a specific format (1080i/720p) and turn the tv off, the dvr will automatically reset to AutoHDMI.

The previous set I had, Philips 1024 x 768p plasma, this was not an issue at all. Anyone else with a 1366 x 768p have the same problem?

It seems as if my AutoHDMI format is reacting just like the Native format. The pitfall though is when I select a specific format (1080i/720p) and turn the tv off, the dvr will automatically reset to AutoHDMI.

The previous set I had, Philips 1024 x 768p plasma, this was not an issue at all. Anyone else with a 1366 x 768p have the same problem?
I can only guess that this is how the firmware in your new TV handles the HDMI "hand-shake" with the Sony, by always telling the Sony to reset to AutoHDMI on power-up (or maybe it's the other way around?).

Your only recourse may be to switch to component video connection. I have not noticed any perceptible degradation in picture quality since I made the switch. BTW, I have the Sony set to Native format so that I can change the viewing aspect on my TV; with any other format setting on the Sony (e.g., 1080i) the aspect is locked to that format.

What I would like the DVR to do is maintain the format I have selected to regardless of original source and/or if dvr or tv are turned off.
-----------
I do not think the "newest" TV's will allow you to do that; for example my HLS (last years Samsung would), but my HLT this years Samsung would not
--------------------

When I change the format on the dvr to 1080i, 720p, 480i, the Panny will coincide and state that it is receive the same. It is only when the tv is turned off that the format reverts to AutoHDMI.
-----------------------------
That might be a tiny software glitch in the Panasonic; the later is (I think) the correct way, the former is not. I realized that is not what you want.
----------------------------------

Component may be the only way to resolve this, but if that's the case I may part with this unit. :mad:

I'll have to test the Moto Dual tuner DVR to see if the same thing occurs.


Generally, this whole HDMI world is a little strange. Last month I took my DHG-HDD to Best Buy to hook it up to a Samsung 720p HLT set. My set has two HDMI ports, and they do NOT work the same. Port 1 is a HDMI/DVI combination port, port 2 is just an HDMI port only. Samsung has a feature called HDMI Black Level Adjust (which I think is great). The problem with the Samsung is, when the Sony Box is connected to the TV, it ONLY allows HDMI Black level adjust on Port 2. I have sinced heard from others that they have the same problem with Moto STB and DVR's. However; in the Best Buy, we tried several of the current Blu-Ray players via HDMI and they all allowed HDMI Black Level Adjust on BOTH HDMI ports. This is a non-issue for me, because I can put the Sony box on port 2, and a "newer" Blu-Ray player on port 1 and have no problem.

To me the whole HDMI world is not yet perfected.

I have a HDD-250 hooked to a Panny 1080p projector via HDMI. The combo auto defaults to Auto HDMI for output on every power up. If watching ABC or other 720p source, I change the output resolution to 720p when playing back and let the projector upconvert to 1080p.

This always looks great, though I do wish I could "fix" a native output on the DVR so what goes out matches what comes in.

I have a HDD-250 hooked to a Panny 1080p projector via HDMI. The combo auto defaults to Auto HDMI for output on every power up. If watching ABC or other 720p source, I change the output resolution to 720p when playing back and let the projector upconvert to 1080p.

This always looks great, though I do wish I could "fix" a native output on the DVR so what goes out matches what comes in.

If you turn on the TV (or projector) first, the DVR will stay at what is was set at, if, of course, you turned off the DVR before turning off the projector. This is no fun. The fix fix for me happily came when I bought an HDMI switcher. It is alway on and seems to keep the DVR happy even though the TV is off.

If you turn on the TV (or projector) first, the DVR will stay at what is was set at, if, of course, you turned off the DVR before turning off the projector. This is no fun. The fix fix for me happily came when I bought an HDMI switcher. It is alway on and seems to keep the DVR happy even though the TV is off.

I've tried the "DVR off first, TV on first" work around, but everytime the Panny 50PX75U & the Sony DVR handshake, the DVR goes to AUTOHDMI. Leaving the DVR doesn't help in my case, since the DVR switches to AUTOHDMI with the initial handshake with the tv.

I'll be parting with my 250 if anyone is interested, PM me. I'll probabley be switching to ATT u-verse anyway, so will not need this in the near future.

I've heard that the picture quality of AT&T leaves a lot to be desired, due to the bandwith constraints.

Yes, but at a discounted rate...I would suspect that if the non-subscription DVR's stop working in 2009, TiVo will just raise their rates...captive audience with no free alternative (especially OTA only)

I find it interesting that people seem to think that there'll be no digital alternative TV guide. Personally, I think we'll see either a digital TV guide signal embedded in the OTA signal, or an Internet protocol for WiFi (or just ethernet) enabled recorders.

I find it interesting that people seem to think that there'll be no digital alternative TV guide. Personally, I think we'll see either a digital TV guide signal embedded in the OTA signal, or an Internet protocol for WiFi (or just ethernet) enabled recorders.

I don't disagree that there will be one, but will there be a way for our boxes to read that signal. Right now, it doesn't appear any updates will help. Will there be an external box that can convert the digital signal to an analog VBI signal? Maybe.

Or maybe, just maybe, we all buy PS3's with ATSC tuners and 500GB drives in them :)

Annouced for Europe, US next? (http://news.google.com/news?q=ps3+with+tuner&hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_en___US232&um=1&sa=X&oi=news_group&resnum=4&ct=title)

I don't disagree that there will be one, but will there be a way for our boxes to read that signal. Right now, it doesn't appear any updates will help. Will there be an external box that can convert the digital signal to an analog VBI signal? Maybe.

Or maybe, just maybe, we all buy PS3's with ATSC tuners and 500GB drives in them :)

Annouced for Europe, US next? (http://news.google.com/news?q=ps3+with+tuner&hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_en___US232&um=1&sa=X&oi=news_group&resnum=4&ct=title)

I had a chat with my director of engineering at WQED DT about the Gemstar TV Guide data feeds - it's been sending digital guide data for the last 45 days in addition to the analog feed. There are some boxes out there currently that can receive guide data via the digital stream. When I talked with Bill at the Sony Tech Center, he told me Sony has not communicated with him yet about an upgrade path for the DHG units once the analog spectrum goes away in 2009. Stay tuned....

I had a chat with my director of engineering at WQED DT about the Gemstar TV Guide data feeds - it's been sending digital guide data for the last 45 days in addition to the analog feed. There are some boxes out there currently that can receive guide data via the digital stream. When I talked with Bill at the Sony Tech Center, he told me Sony has not communicated with him yet about an upgrade path for the DHG units once the analog spectrum goes away in 2009. Stay tuned....

Seems to me that Gemstar, not Sony, is legally responsible for delivery of our TV guide. I believe that Sony paid them both for their guide device, which is installed in our units, and for the tv guide service. Many other manufactures have done likewise. I for one am glad they choose Gemstar instead of TIVO. Even with their monthly fee, TIVO has yet to make a profit, which can't continue indefinitely. Gemstar is a profitable company.

Ray

Sony will probably enable tv guide downloads from internet soon.

Sony will probably enable tv guide downloads from internet soon.

How do you think the DHG's will work? There is no wireless or ethernet port on the device. They should have had ethernet from day one.

How do you think the DHG's will work? There is no wireless or ethernet port on the device. They should have had ethernet from day one.

However, there is a USB port. According to page 8 of the user manual this port is "Reserved for potential future applications".

However, there is a USB port. According to page 8 of the user manual this port is "Reserved for potential future applications".

The product is no longer made and enhancements aren't being developed. If you figure out a way to hack it an enable it, let us know.

The product is no longer made and enhancements aren't being developed. If you figure out a way to hack it an enable it, let us know.

Technically it is active. You can update firmware with a thumb drive. It's not accessible through the UI however. This would require new code which probably would not have to be written from scratch but would still require more of an investment than sony would be willing to make on a discontinued product. As far as the VBI data goes, that is a definite hardware change in the unit probably involving the daughter card and a more current MPEG encoder/decoder that handles VBI in MPEG and is capable of re-inserting it in the analog video output. The converter box descriptions I've seen all refer to an EPG but it's more than likely pulled from the PSIP data in the ATSC. I know Gemstar is lobbying for a converter box that handles their protocol so maybe something will happen in the next 18 months, who knows?

Sony will probably enable tv guide downloads from internet soon.

Even if the USB input allowed connection to the internet, there would need to be lots of new software for processing that data. Sony delegated that responsibility to Gemstar. Seems to me that the digital to analog function will be part of the new converter box. Otherwise stuff like tv rating control would no longer be available to analog sets. As I see it, the box will output a second analog channel, in additional to the conventional channel 3/4 output. The set connected to that box will seek out, and lock on to this additional channel, by design, and will receive guide data, time etc.

Ray

I'm quite entertained by all of this talk about whether the guide is going to work or not in 2009... very amusing.

Instead of waiting for it to die, why not take action now? There are some great options. The DHG-HDD500 is going for $550 - $650 on eBay. That's a LOT of money for units most people purchased for $250... plus they are used, and not guaranteed to be have any guide in less than 18 months... and of course there is that aging hard drive that is going to die eventually.

Good options:

1. Buy a Tivo HD. $299 for the unit. $299 for 3 years of the program guide. So for about the same price as you can sell the Sony for on eBay, you will have a guide until 8/2010! Plus it has two tuners so you can record a show while watching another live show or record two shows at once. And the guide works. But of course you have to renew the guide after 8/2010 so long term cost increases.

2. Buy or build a media center PC. This will be more costly, but you can avoid the guide fee. You can build a decent Windows Vista based HTPC for under $1000. With up to 4 tuners (2 analog, 2 digital). And the guide is free. You can build one for less if you go with Linux and MythTV - but then you may have guide issues since that free guide is supposedly going away. Seems to me that Vista Media center is the safest bet to ensure the guide keeps coming. It's Microsoft with their deep pockets.

In my opinion, it's quite crazy to be sitting on a $600 used piece of electronic equipment that is very likely going to be worth < $100 in 18 months...

I'm quite entertained by all of this talk about whether the guide is going to work or not in 2009... very amusing.

Instead of waiting for it to die, why not take action now? There are some great options. The DHG-HDD500 is going for $550 - $650 on eBay. That's a LOT of money for units most people purchased for $250... plus they are used, and not guaranteed to be have any guide in less than 18 months... and of course there is that aging hard drive that is going to die eventually.

Good options:

1. Buy a Tivo HD. $299 for the unit. $299 for 3 years of the program guide. So for about the same price as you can sell the Sony for on eBay, you will have a guide until 8/2010! Plus it has two tuners so you can record a show while watching another live show or record two shows at once. And the guide works. But of course you have to renew the guide after 8/2010 so long term cost increases.

2. Buy or build a media center PC. This will be more costly, but you can avoid the guide fee. You can build a decent Windows Vista based HTPC for under $1000. With up to 4 tuners (2 analog, 2 digital). And the guide is free. You can build one for less if you go with Linux and MythTV - but then you may have guide issues since that free guide is supposedly going away. Seems to me that Vista Media center is the safest bet to ensure the guide keeps coming. It's Microsoft with their deep pockets.

In my opinion, it's quite crazy to be sitting on a $600 used piece of electronic equipment that is very likely going to be worth < $100 in 18 months...These are very good options. Personally, I am leaning toward adding hard disk capacity and using my media center PC to its fullest capability - really don't use it much since I have the HDD500 and Dish Network HD DVRs. Anyway, what happens to those of us with a Sony Extended Service Plan (ESP) when the guide no longer functions as advertised? At best, Sony may provide a small refund based on the prorated unused portion of the ESP. In any case, I love the HDD500 and plan to use it for another 19-months. Hopefully, it will continue to work for many more years.

2. Buy or build a media center PC. This will be more costly, but you can avoid the guide fee. You can build a decent Windows Vista based HTPC for under $1000. With up to 4 tuners (2 analog, 2 digital). And the guide is free. You can build one for less if you go with Linux and MythTV - but then you may have guide issues since that free guide is supposedly going away. Seems to me that Vista Media center is the safest bet to ensure the guide keeps coming. It's Microsoft with their deep pockets.

Are there any HTPC tuners that support CableCards?

I have nio problem keeping and using my 2 500s. Most people's alternatives are the cablco boxes, so I'm saving $30-50 a month not renting boxes, buying digital cable, etc, and I have a much better machine.

I will probably go HTApple after the 500s. I already have an Apple Mini Mac hooked to my 40" Sony and it looks and works great. but I'm not using it as a DVR.

Are there any HTPC tuners that support CableCards?

http://www.learningcenter.sony.us/assets/itpd/digitalhome/xl3_series/?LCID=ITPD_digitalhome_pr_xl3_series

Expensive, and it's not clear if you can install a second tuner card.

I have some footage of my brother-in-law in Afghanistan that was on the news on my DVR. After he sees that in a few weeks (coming for a visit) I may be letting my unit go. I am leaning towards the cableco rental market. Last time I checked TIVO had problems getting guide data for clearQAM channels. I may be mistaken about that, but I know there was something that wasn't working out for me.

One of the nice things about a cable recorder is that it is rented on a monthly basis and can be returned without penalty so I suggest you try it out before you dispose of your Sony. I have both and use the cable recorder primarily for commercial free stuff like HBO programs since it doesn't have the jump forward feature. Also, it has much less capacity than the Sony.
I am confident that the Sony will continue to function past February 09 but wonder how long TIVO will stay around without profit.

Ray

Did anyone have trouble with last night's download? I've got no listings for next Saturday, and my VBI test fails on my PBS host channel. I'm in the Indianapolis area using BrightHouse Networks cable. Wondering if this is local or national.

Marc

Did anyone have trouble with last night's download? I've got no listings for next Saturday, and my VBI test fails on my PBS host channel. I'm in the Indianapolis area using BrightHouse Networks cable. Wondering if this is local or national.

Marc
All eight days are filled in here in Los Angeles, Marc. I get data over the air from the local PBS station.

Thanks Tucknan,

Since you confirmed it doesn't seem to be national, I sent an email to the local PBS engineering group. I'll probably hear back from them on Monday.

Marc

I have to admit my guide has been extremely reliable for the several years I have had this HDD500. Should knock on wood but its still going strong. Heres hoping it will still be going after the analog stations go away.

Yeah, no problems here in the Chicagoland market, either - at least not with my unit.

Full guide data in NJ but an old problem has returned-the lockup.Can't view recorded programs while unit is recording another-same problem that arose in March. Anyone else have the return of the lockup?

I'm quite entertained by all of this talk about whether the guide is going to work or not in 2009... very amusing.

Instead of waiting for it to die, why not take action now? There are some great options. The DHG-HDD500 is going for $550 - $650 on eBay. That's a LOT of money for units most people purchased for $250... plus they are used, and not guaranteed to be have any guide in less than 18 months... and of course there is that aging hard drive that is going to die eventually.


I was hoping some else would comment on the statement that most people purchased the units for $250. I doubt that is true since the $250 price was offered by only one vendor, in early 2006 versus unit availability in June 2005, when I got my 250 unit for about $600, and overjoyed to finally getting it. My impression is that many people felt the same way. Many of us were frustrated with the delayed availability and some of the early postings on this thread expressed doubt that the unit would ever be produced.

Since Gemstar has contracts with all the major set manufacturers to furnish tv guide, and the end of analog tv broadcast was planned ahead of the contract agreement, the lack of analog tv will not justify contract termination.

With regard to aging hard drive, my experience is that the longer the drive runs, the more likely it will continue to do so.

Ray

I'll comment, I got two of them off of eBay, one complete and one unit only (no power cord, remote, etc). I paid a total of $325 for both units. There was seller selling these without putting the model number in the title of his listings. These didn't get many hits and not many bids. I bet that is where most of the people that purchased here got theirs. That seller is no longer selling these, but it seems Best Buy outlet copied his description:

Sony CableCard High-Definition DVR with 250GB Drive

Since this is Best Buy outlet (a more well known seller, prices should still be higher)

I'll comment, I got two of them off of eBay, one complete and one unit only (no power cord, remote, etc). I paid a total of $325 for both units. There was seller selling these without putting the model number in the title of his listings. These didn't get many hits and not many bids. I bet that is where most of the people that purchased here got theirs. That seller is no longer selling these, but it seems Best Buy outlet copied his description:

Sony CableCard High-Definition DVR with 250GB Drive

Since this is Best Buy outlet (a more well known seller, prices should still be higher)

You got a great deal but what was the date of your purchase? I assume most people got their units, at least their first one, in 2005, before units were discontinued.

Ray

I got mine (HDD500) in October 2006 from an Ebay seller. Brand new in factory sealed box for about $610 shipped.

With regard to aging hard drive, my experience is that the longer the drive runs, the more likely it will continue to do so.

Ray

Well supposedly the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) on the Western Digital Cavier SE drives is 1.2 million hours at 100% utilization. So that's apx 137 years so you may be right about this...

I got mine (HDD500) in October 2006 from an Ebay seller. Brand new in factory sealed box for about $610 shipped.

Paid $273 as an open box (hdd250 complete with all cables, remote and manual) from Best Buy on 7/28/06 - had the option to pick up the extended warranty from Sony since BBY is an authorized retailer. Passed on the ew. Would love to pick up another one...

I paid $500 on an open box website deal from vanns that or around Oct 2005 I believe, Thing is still going strong. That would be the HDD500. Way behind on watching though, its near full from many of full season shows from last year. May have to del soon as the new season will begin soon :)

You got a great deal but what was the date of your purchase? I assume most people got their units, at least their first one, in 2005, before units were discontinued.

Ray

These were purchased in August and September of 2006. I picked up one for my cousin in October for $150....this seller had a ton of them at the time.

I paid over $400 for mine last year, and it's been great and it's still going strong! But I have no idea why anyone would pay that much now, considering the latest TiVo HD recorder goes for $299 (was $253 at Circuit City). And it can record two channels at once, with a much better program guide. Plus, unlike the Sony, it's pretty straight forward to upgrade the hard drive to store far more.

But then again, you do have to pay the $12.95/mo, so guess that has a lot to do with it...

Paid $250 at Tweeter for a 500 unit in Feb. 2006

Paid $250 at Tweeter for a 500 unit in Feb. 2006


Same here. Purchased two 500s for $250 a piece from Tweeter in February 2006

I paid $500 for my HDD250 at bestbuy.com but I can't recall when (I want to say it was Nov '05, but I might be off on the date). Maybe it was more like Feb '06 based on when I started hosting the FAQ page.

Paid $250 at Tweeter for a 500 unit in Feb. 2006
Same here. Purchased two 500s for $250 a piece from Tweeter in February 2006
Same here. I got 2 from Tweeter. They were sold out here locally, so I got on the phone and started calling around to other ones in the country, almost bought 2 from the east coast, but they wanted to charge me S&H. I was determined to get one so I could record OTA for free.

I finally found one and had it shipped over from California for free to my local Tweeter. It was one of the last open box ones they had. It had no power cord, but it did have the remote, manual, and all other cords. I just went to RS and got a power cord.

The other one I actually got on the the Tweeter website for $250, I think I got one of the last ones, because when my friend went back 5-10 minutes after I bought mine to get one, they were all sold out.

So I feel pretty lucky to have gotten 2 500's for $500. :D

Well, I still have the lockup issue. I've tried 1,2,3 four times now, and just tried a factory reset last night. Nothing will keep my box from locking up when watching a show while it's recording. What a pain in the ***. Has it not worked for anyone else? Or am I the only one who hasn't been able to keep their box from locking up?

Good news. After the factory reset, the guide started to fill in, but the digital channels weren't getting any guide information (or guide information was spotty). I remapped the HD locals to the SD channels so I could try recording off those (same program lineup). Worked like a charm, and the lockup is gone. I'm not sure if I'll still have the lockup problem once the digital lineup starts coming in, but I'm not sure if I want to mess with any of it, since it's all working fine right now. Anyhow, I'm a happy camper with my HDD500 fully functioning again.

Paid $250 at Tweeter for a 500 unit in Feb. 2006

I bought my first one (a 250) at Best Buy for (I think) $600, which was $100 off the list price. It was in November 2005, soon after BB started listing the Sonys on their Web site. I kept watching the stock indicator for the stores in my area, and when it showed that the one in Spartanburg SC had the 250, I drove up the next day and bought it. They hadn't even had a chance to put one out on display yet, but I found the boxes on the upper-level stock racks and flagged a clerk to fetch one down for me.

About two weeks later Sony officially discontinued the units. :(

Then the Tweeter blowout came along in February and I got what I think was the last one in Columbia SC, an open box unit that still had TVGOS data for Columbia-area stations before I reset it to scan for my own stations. It was just before the Winter Olympics, and I still have some Olympics stuff on that machine.