Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread [Text View] - Page 46

spiff72

02-20-08, 01:28 PM

Lets's not overlook this handy built-in feature:
http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section1216
"G* Factory Test"

This will tell you if the tuned-to analog channel has TVGOS data.
And, separately, it will set the clock time if clock data is present.

And I've noticed some information (not much) is filled-in on that page when I tune-to the digital CBS channel. I have not compared other digital channels, but we do need to investigate and document that "digital channel" aspect.

For a DtoA converter box test:
set the converter to the correct digital TVGOS channel (e.g. CBS)
set the converter rf output to channel 3 or 4
set the Sony DVR to channel 3 or 4 (verify CBS is shown)
"G* Factory Test"

One thing to keep in mind is that the converter box will have an auto-shutoff timer. This needs to be turned off for use with the DVR. You know this'll come up eventually...

Keep in mind, however, that I have seen an analog station FAIL the VBI portion of the test, but the station still has functional closed captioning. I thought CC was part of the VBI section - so perhaps the VBI test is looking specifically for the TVGOS packets in the VBI data.

kwg

02-20-08, 04:33 PM

Keep in mind, however, that I have seen an analog station FAIL the VBI portion of the test, but the station still has functional closed captioning. I thought CC was part of the VBI section

CC, clock and TVGOS are located in the VBI.

so perhaps the VBI test is looking specifically for the TVGOS packets in the VBI data.

Correct.

kwg

02-20-08, 06:09 PM

AarDee

02-21-08, 01:41 PM

A local TV station, channel 5 Boston, had a webcast, today, on the change-over to digital TV. They solicited questions the day before so I sent in the following:

"Some DVR's and TV's receive program guide information via an analog channel, currently channel 2. The data is sent in a manner similar to closed captions, in the Vertical Blanking Interval (VBI). This is also known as the TVGOS service (TV Guide On Screen).

This data may be provided in the digital TV signal, but my question is: Will the converter boxes read the data from the digital signal and insert it into the analog signal? I may need a converter box just to get this guide information; my DVR will be pretty useless without it.
"

The format of the webcast was simply an interview of a DTV "expert". He was read the submitted questions. They read my question, leaving out the sentences that mentioned TVGOS [second and third sentence, actually]. The "expert" then answered saying there would be Electronic Guide information in the digital signal to provide an "on screen" guide. I think he meant the PSIP info not the TVGOS info. He seemed to miss the point of the question or maybe the editing of the question made it less clear.

Oh well.

AarDee

02-21-08, 01:53 PM

One other point they made, on the above webcast, was that people with cable didn't have to do anything for another 3 years. I don't know if they assumed people had cable boxes, though.

fox200

02-21-08, 02:23 PM

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6533760.html
By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 2/20/2008 8:42:00 AM
EchoStar DTV Box Slated For June
EchoStar’s much-publicized $39.99 converter box won’t be available until June or July

I spoke with Gemstar technical support today and he said (I won't use his name)
again that the TR-40 will support the guide for the Sony. I've called a number of times over the last year. He also said that Gemstar is "in talks with other manufactures to support the guide in converters". He could not disclose who.
Their is hope for the Sony.

fox

E55 KEV

02-21-08, 03:55 PM

WS65711

02-21-08, 04:01 PM

new product coming from philips. DVDR3576H/37 MSRP $329.99

160GB Hard Disc DVR stores up to 200 hours of videos.................

160GB / 200 hours of videos = NOT RECORDED IN HD

spiff72

02-21-08, 04:02 PM

new product coming from philips. DVDR3576H/37 MSRP $329.99

160GB Hard Disc DVR stores up to 200 hours of videosBuilt-in ATSC Tuner to receive over-the-air digital broadcasts, , Dual Media Recording: Guaranteed recording on any DVD +R/+RW/-R/-RW disc; Guaranteed playback of your recordings on any DVD player, Pause your live TV shows at the press of a button for up to 6 hours, and watch instant replays, Record and watch in perfect quality, HDMI with Video upconversion to 720p, 1080i and 1080p, i.LINK DV-input for connecting your digital camcorder. Movies: Plays DVD, DVD+R/RW, DVD-R/RW, (S)VCD, DivX Photos: Plays Picture CD/DVD (JPEG), Music: Plays CD, MP3-CD/DVD, CD-R/RW and WMA Audio

Does it actually record to the HDD in High Def?

Rammitinski

02-21-08, 04:09 PM

Hey, I'd even settle for it just passing an HD signal from it's tuner to our displays. It would be a major, welcome improvement. But I ain't countin' on that.

AarDee

02-21-08, 05:46 PM

new product coming from philips. DVDR3576H/37 MSRP $329.99

...

I've seen a couple of similar models. It seems like they are adding an ATSC tuner to DVR's, but no QAM tuner. This way they avoid the whole "cable card" business.

avnstf

02-21-08, 06:05 PM

I spoke with Gemstar technical support today and he said (I won't use his name)
again that the TR-40 will support the guide for the Sony. I've called a number of times over the last year. He also said that Gemstar is "in talks with other manufactures to support the guide in converters". He could not disclose who.
Their is hope for the Sony.

fox

did he say the unit would definitely pass a clock signal that the Sony would take?

(According to the regulation it HAS to supply the VBI stuff...I guess that must be where the clock is....

avnstf

02-21-08, 06:17 PM

thewarm

02-21-08, 07:19 PM

did he say the unit would definitely pass a clock signal that the Sony would take?

(According to the regulation it HAS to supply the VBI stuff...I guess that must be where the clock is....

DHG's are still getting unbelievable prices on ebay.:confused:

Ray1938

02-21-08, 07:32 PM

One other point they made, on the above webcast, was that people with cable didn't have to do anything for another 3 years. I don't know if they assumed people had cable boxes, though.

It is my understanding that there is an agreement with the government for cable channels to continue supplying OTA channels for 3 years, without a cable box. Those with digital cable boxes are now able to view programs on their analog tv so I assume that will continue to be the case even after 3 years. Unfortunately that won't solve our DVR problem.

Ray

Eddie39

02-22-08, 08:17 AM

I have one of my 250"s in the bedroom without a cable card and I receiving local QAM channels. My cable is connected direct without a cable box.

borgmon

02-22-08, 06:31 PM

Looks like the converters that have an asterisk on this list will pass/convert the VBI information. Looks promising!:)

https://www.ntiadtv.gov/cecb_list.cfm

sivartk

02-22-08, 07:05 PM

To me, that asterisk just means that the tuner has an ATSC and NTSC (analog) tuner built in. Helpful if you pick up a lower power local station that can remain analog.

AarDee

02-22-08, 07:19 PM

Looks like the converters that have an asterisk on this list will pass/convert the VBI information. Looks promising!:)

https://www.ntiadtv.gov/cecb_list.cfm

From the above link, referring to the asterisk, "*The manufacturer has indicated that these models are capable of passing analog signals through to the TV set."

That asterick may refer to the boxes that have two tuners.

From the link below:

"Bruno and the association are advising consumers to buy boxes that will not only convert digital signals to analog, but pass through analog signals. They should ask for boxes with both NTSC and ATSC tuners, he said."

Evidently, there will be some low power analog stations still broadcasting after the change to digital.

LINK (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/business/s_552827.html)

Ray1938

02-22-08, 07:21 PM

Looks like the converters that have an asterisk on this list will pass/convert the VBI information. Looks promising!:)

https://www.ntiadtv.gov/cecb_list.cfm

I expect the coax output to include channel 3/4 with the original antenna input for the purpose to add the signals from low power analog tv stations without the need for either a signal switch or signal combiner. Hopefully the box will pass through both analog and digital channels, with channel 3/4 set to provide guide and time signals.

Ray

avnstf

02-22-08, 08:39 PM

I expect the coax output to include channel 3/4 with the original antenna input for the purpose to add the signals from low power analog tv stations without the need for either a signal switch or signal combiner. Hopefully the box will pass through both analog and digital channels, with channel 3/4 set to provide guide and time signals.

Ray

Question...even if these boxes pass along that info with the analog signal (as apparently they are REQUIRED to according to the quote from a Gemstar person 2 weeks ago), will the Sony even LOOK at that data if the "channel" (i.e., 3 or 4) is not in the list of channels that is in the tvgos data??? (I know this is something of a paradox, but I still wonder)

It may be that we won't really know whether our units, i.e., the Sonys and the LG 3410a, will look at these pseudo-analog stations for the tygos data and clock AND will we really be able to test this before the actual analog shut-off?

Rammitinski

02-22-08, 09:15 PM

To me, that asterisk just means that the tuner has an ATSC and NTSC (analog) tuner built in. Helpful if you pick up a lower power local station that can remain analog.I didn't think any of them would actually have NTSC tuners built-in. I've only heard that a few would pass through the RF so that you could still use your TV's NTSC tuner if you needed to. Like the Sammy DTB-H260F HD ATSC tuner does.

Ray1938

02-22-08, 09:26 PM

Question...even if these boxes pass along that info with the analog signal (as apparently they are REQUIRED to according to the quote from a Gemstar person 2 weeks ago), will the Sony even LOOK at that data if the "channel" (i.e., 3 or 4) is not in the list of channels that is in the tvgos data??? (I know this is something of a paradox, but I still wonder)

It may be that we won't really know whether our units, i.e., the Sonys and the LG 3410a, will look at these pseudo-analog stations for the tygos data and clock AND will we really be able to test this before the actual analog shut-off?

The Sony is designed to scan for the tv guide channel when it is in the standby mode. So if the box converts guide data to VBI format, just keep it powered on, tuned to CBS, and the DVR will continue to function. I don't know how to test it before the analog channel shuts off, assuming before that occurs, two channels of guide data are available to the DVR.
My plan is to choose a box that has the lowest power consumption since I assume it will need to be on 24/7.

Ray

jtbell

02-23-08, 01:51 AM

I don't know how to test it before the analog channel shuts off, assuming before that occurs, two channels of guide data are available to the DVR.

I think the way to do it would be to disconnect the antenna from the Sony, and connect it to the converter box. Then connect the converter box to the Sony's cable (not antenna) input, tune it to your CBS station, re-initialize TVGOS for "antenna and cable," do a channel scan, and wait overnight.

The Sony shouldn't pick up your analog TVGOS host channel because there's nothing on the antenna input. It should (hopefully) pick up the converted TVGOS data on either channel 3 or 4, whichever output channel your converter box is set to.

After you have program listings, you should be able to re-connect the Sony's antenna input via a splitter and do an "add channels from antenna" scan.

My understanding is that the Sony actually searches for a TVGOS host channel only during initial setup and when it can't get TVGOS data from the current host channel for a certain period of time. So the host channel setting should "stick" if you remember to set your converter box to your CBS channel every night or whenever you're not using the Sony.

thewarm

02-23-08, 08:47 AM

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6533760.html?rssid=84

:eek:

frank70

02-23-08, 10:53 AM

I didn't think any of them would actually have NTSC tuners built-in. I've only heard that a few would pass through the RF so that you could still use your TV's NTSC tuner if you needed to. Like the Sammy DTB-H260F HD ATSC tuner does.Agreed - coupon eligible boxes are not allowed to have NTSC tuners, but passing along the RF (with channel 3/4 replaced with the box RF output) would be a big boon to Sony users, because the box would not need to be connected to the cable input or combined (with a channel 3/4 combiner) with a split-off antenna feed, because effectively the box has its own channel 3/4 combiner inside. Remember that even ATSC digital stations still transmit signals on the same old RF channels - the only difference is the content, which is bits of data instead of NTSC encoded video (tune a digital UHF station on your analog TV sometime - you'll get a nice strong signal that looks like snow - but the black and white dots in that snow are not random, they're the data bits.)

So I certainly hope that's what the asterisk means. Clearly it DOES NOT mean that digital guide is converted to VBI - we so far have only Gemstar's word on that re the Echostar.

avnstf

02-23-08, 09:13 PM

...So I certainly hope that's what the asterisk means. Clearly it DOES NOT mean that digital guide is converted to VBI - we so far have only Gemstar's word on that re the Echostar.

Actually, the Gemstar guy quoted here a couple of weeks ago cited regulatory stuff that said that EVERY box that qualifies for the coupons MUST pass the vbi data (which includes the TVGOS data - or will - for the CBS digital station).

...or do you differ with this opinion?

frank70

02-24-08, 10:11 AM

Actually, the Gemstar guy quoted here a couple of weeks ago cited regulatory stuff that said that EVERY box that qualifies for the coupons MUST pass the vbi data (which includes the TVGOS data - or will - for the CBS digital station).

...or do you differ with this opinion?Well you can read all the legalese here [http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVCouponFinalRule_031207.pdf] for yourself. The only paragraphs that apply are 62-64 (which address VBI conversion of closed captioning, emergergency alert, parental controls), and the rather wishy-washy paragraph 73 (in which Gemstar proposes passing their guide, but no definitive requirement is specified). So the official regulatory "stuff" addresses VBI data for CC, EA, and PC, but not definitively an EPG. Curiously, it doesn't address the issue of "time" in the VBI at all, although I believe that is optional NTSC VBI content that predates TVGOS (ATSC carries the time for sure, it's just a matter of whether it will be re-encoded into the VBI by a box.)

AarDee

02-24-08, 03:19 PM

Well you can read all the legalese here [http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVCouponFinalRule_031207.pdf] for yourself. The only paragraphs that apply are 62-64 (which address VBI conversion of closed captioning, emergergency alert, parental controls), and the rather wishy-washy paragraph 73 (in which Gemstar proposes passing their guide, but no definitive requirement is specified). So the official regulatory "stuff" addresses VBI data for CC, EA, and PC, but not definitively an EPG. Curiously, it doesn't address the issue of "time" in the VBI at all, although I believe that is optional NTSC VBI content that predates TVGOS (ATSC carries the time for sure, it's just a matter of whether it will be re-encoded into the VBI by a box.)

Paragraph 73 is interesting.

73. Gemstar-TV Guide International
(‘‘Gemstar’’) requested that NTIA permit
the inclusion of hardware and software
that would enable a consumer to receive
Gemstar’s TV Guide On Screen
electronic program guide or other third-
party guides. Gemstar notes that
distribution of television program
information is required by the A/65
standard, which defines the PSIP. The
PSIP also includes information about
the multicast channels and contains the
parental control (V-chip) information
required by the FCC. Gemstar further
notes that many televisions are
equipped with built-in capability to
receive and display Gemstar’s TV Guide
On Screen service. Gemstar stated that
it is working with the Society of Cable
Telecommunications Engineers
regarding the Digital Video Standard
706 ‘‘VBI-in-MPEG’’ which will allow
carriage of existing analog standard
definition video VBI signals in digital
broadcast transmissions.

Note the word "requested"

AarDee

02-24-08, 04:47 PM

Lets's not overlook this handy built-in feature:
http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section1216
"G* Factory Test"

This will tell you if the tuned-to analog channel has TVGOS data.
And, separately, it will set the clock time if clock data is present.

And I've noticed some information (not much) is filled-in on that page when I tune-to the digital CBS channel. I have not compared other digital channels, but we do need to investigate and document that "digital channel" aspect.

For a DtoA converter box test:
set the converter to the correct digital TVGOS channel (e.g. CBS)
set the converter rf output to channel 3 or 4
set the Sony DVR to channel 3 or 4 (verify CBS is shown)
"G* Factory Test"

One thing to keep in mind is that the converter box will have an auto-shutoff timer. This needs to be turned off for use with the DVR. You know this'll come up eventually...

I ran this test on the CBS digital OTA channel (from Boston) The test said "VBI:PASS" as well as logging good packets! The number of packets incremented at about 1 per second. The PBS analog channel (over cable) logged 2 or 3 packets per second.

But why does the test say VBI:PASS with the packet count incrementing when I am tuned to a digital channel? By the way, this did not happen on other digital channels, just the CBS channel.

I even tried tuning to a station that didn't work before tuning to the station in question, to make sure it wasn't using the previous channel.

One more bit of data: the heading on the test looked like this (one time)

Packet Statistics for:

VBI:4-1 ATSC:4-1

Other times that I ran the test on 4-1, the channel field was blank.

avnstf

02-25-08, 10:38 PM

I tried the Gemstar test on CBS channel 4.1 in Minneapolis tonight and saw about 2 VBI packets per second. I hope that's a good sign. The two ATSC fields tick up from 0 to 1 and then stop.

do you mean you were looking at the output from one of the new dacs?

is 2/sec comparable to what we get from the PBS analog stations?

Ray1938

02-26-08, 02:32 AM

do you mean you were looking at the output from one of the new dacs?

is 2/sec comparable to what we get from the PBS analog stations?

Worked for me on CBS channel 2.1 in LA from antenna signal - no box.

Ray

spiff72

02-26-08, 10:05 AM

do you mean you were looking at the output from one of the new dacs?

is 2/sec comparable to what we get from the PBS analog stations?

Interesting...

Are you able to receive guide data with this channel as your host? Or is your host still an analog channel?

AarDee

02-26-08, 11:54 AM

Interesting...

Are you able to receive guide data with this channel as your host? Or is your host still an analog channel?

In my case, the host channel is still the PBS analog channel via cable. At least, the last time I checked. Should I try to force the host channel to the digital channel (4.1)? Is that the best test?

Edit: Just read Spiff's page about the "force host channel": "USE THIS CODE AT YOUR OWN RISK."

jrn23

02-26-08, 04:13 PM

Has anyone tried running their 250/500 without the harddrive(s) installed. I'm beginning to have a problem where the picture and audio begin to breakup to the point where it's unwatchable. I'd like to remove the harddrive to determine if that is the problem, or if I continue to get the breakups without the drive. But I'm not sure if removing it will cause other problems. I'd just like to get some feedback before I try this. Thanks.

WS65711

02-26-08, 04:26 PM

I don't think its possible to run without the drive. There is no such thing as "live" with the Sonys. Everything you watch is watched off the hard drive . . .:eek:

Erik Garci

02-26-08, 04:40 PM

Has anyone tried running their 250/500 without the harddrive(s) installed.
It runs with a bad drive (see below), so it might also run with no drive.
Out of curiosity, does the unit still work as an HD tuner with a bad hard drive?Yes, it does, but you no longer can pause live shows. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10764277#post10764277)
Out of curiosity, does the unit still work as an HD tuner with a bad hard drive?Yes it does. No guide, though. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10765086#post10765086)

jrn23

02-26-08, 11:32 PM

It runs with a bad drive (see below), so it might also run with no drive.

Just to follow up..... I was able to tune in channels just fine with the hard drive removed. It did complain when I initially powered up, but then it tuned in fine. However, i verified the drive was not my problem. I'm now thinking its the cable feed to the box, even though other outlets with cable boxes are fine. I'm just thinking that these Sonys are more sensitive to the input signal. :(

TheRatPatrol

02-27-08, 08:01 AM

I had an issue last night where one of my 500's was not receiving any ".1" channels. A warm reset (exit/tvguide buttons) fixed the problem.

Just curious, has anyone else had this issue?

Thanks

cheneyp

02-27-08, 09:05 AM

I had an issue last night where one of my 500's was not receiving any ".1" channels. A warm reset (exit/tvguide buttons) fixed the problem.

Just curious, has anyone else had this issue?

Thanks

Haven't seen this on any of my 3 DHGs. Out of curiosity, was it just the ".1" channels? Were you still getting ".2", ".3", etc. or all of the digital subs?

GodobeHD

02-27-08, 02:37 PM

frank70

02-27-08, 06:53 PM

Sorry if this question has been answered in the thread. But this thread is probably the longest non-sticky on a single product on AVS here. I would like to know if Sony has made an update for or a firm commitment to supporting DHGs after Feb 2009. Is there an annoucement on that?No!

There is a movement afoot here to find out if an add-on converter box will do the trick, though. The jury is still out on that and most likely will be until June/July.

GodobeHD

02-27-08, 07:05 PM

bfdtv

02-27-08, 07:51 PM

Do you guys think an extended warrantee from Sony will gauranttee its working after Feb 2009?
Has there been a petition on this forum to get at least some answer from Sony, if not commitment?
Judging by the length of this thread I think the interest of using this product forever is enormous here.No. Sony has no interest in supporting this product moving forward.

They lost money on the sale of this product and they lose additional money every time a customer requests some kind of support.

TheRatPatrol

02-27-08, 08:55 PM

Haven't seen this on any of my 3 DHGs. Out of curiosity, was it just the ".1" channels? Were you still getting ".2", ".3", etc. or all of the digital subs?
I wasn't getting any of the digital sub channels.

GodobeHD

02-27-08, 09:34 PM

No. Sony has no interest in supporting this product moving forward.

They lost money on the sale of this product and they lose additional money every time a customer requests some kind of support.

No doubt they lost money on that, but it has only been out for three years. I can't believe Sony would just let a four year new product become totally useless, especially considering they sold many EW on it which under contract terms should garauntees its functionalities beyond 2010.

Ray1938

02-27-08, 09:52 PM

Previously I reported that CBS channel 2.1 passed the VBI test. Last night I repeated that test and also ran the test on CBS HD from TW cable Channel 2.1 passed again but CBS HD cable failed.

Since the VBI test passed, I wonder if that signal will furnish guide data without the need for a converter box?

Gemstar, not Sony, is responsible for the on-screen guide so an extended warranty won't solve the Feb 2009 cut-off problem.

Ray

sivartk

02-27-08, 11:28 PM

Gemstar, not Sony, is responsible for the on-screen guide so an extended warranty won't solve the Feb 2009 cut-off problem.

I don't have an extended warranty, but one could argue that if the clock can't be set, a manual timer recording (a function of the machine, not the guide) would also not function. What they would do to remedy this problem if they determine it is a warranty issues is anyone's guess.

What do the exact terms of the extended warranty state?

avnstf

02-27-08, 11:42 PM

No doubt they lost money on that, but it has only been out for three years. I can't believe Sony would just let a four year new product become totally useless, especially considering they sold many EW on it which under contract terms should garauntees its functionalities beyond 2010.

hmm...my 4-year warranty is from Best Buy, and still has 2 years to run - it was sold with the understanding that it would WORK as advertised...

drhankz

02-28-08, 08:18 AM

My HDD500 locked up today while tuned to a non-host channel. Rather than forcibly reset it, I let it sit and eventually reboot on its own. When it came back, all TVGOS data was gone (both channel config and listings; the recording schedule and completed recordings remained intact). Maybe there's some bad guide data floating around this week.

QUESTION for you - MARK

Are you using a CableCard?

If Yes - is it an "S" Card or an "M" Card?

drhankz

02-28-08, 01:22 PM

No cablecard here, just OTA.

Then I don't have a possible explaination for
what you are experiencing.

WhatHappend

02-28-08, 07:50 PM

spiff72

02-28-08, 08:02 PM

GOOD NEWS !!!

I did the host channel reset code yesterday to the OTA Digital CBS that passes VBI in the Twin Cities MN and today my host channel is 0:4-1 and I have new listings for the 8th day......

I have the oldest Sony Firmware 1.2.05 and the current guide version 8.06.44

Interesting info!

I think you should give it another several days and make sure that the data is still populating.

One thing that I find odd is the way that the channels are identified. The fact that digital channel 4.1 (that is right, isn't it?) is represented as 4-1, while analog channels are represented as something like 0-12 (for analog channel 12).

WhatHappend

02-28-08, 08:37 PM

Interesting info!

I think you should give it another several days and make sure that the data is still populating.

One thing that I find odd is the way that the channels are identified. The fact that digital channel 4.1 (that is right, isn't it?) is represented as 4-1, while analog channels are represented as something like 0-12 (for analog channel 12).

Yes, OTA ATSC CBS 4.1 is the 0:4-1.

I will update the board as to if the host channel sticks. I have never been able to get a OTA channel to stay as the unit migrates the host channel to a cable channel over time (seems to perfer cable to OTA host channels).

Ray1938

02-28-08, 09:11 PM

For those interested in getting a converter box, I urge you click on the link below, which takes you to a company that sells converter boxes, only if a sample unit passes their tests, and they post the test results. Most boxes are still being tested, but my impression from results posted is that the boxes are unreliable.

Ray

http://www.king-cart.com/18inch/product=Digital+to+Analog+Converter's/exact_match=exact

avnstf

02-28-08, 09:34 PM

GOOD NEWS !!!

I did the host channel reset code yesterday to the OTA Digital CBS that passes VBI in the Twin Cities MN and today my host channel is 0:4-1 and I have new listings for the 8th day......

I have the oldest Sony Firmware 1.2.05 and the current guide version 8.06.44

I haven't been following what precisely you have been doing, but what you said above SEEMS to mean that you are getting guide data from the DIGITAL CBS channel...I didn't think that was possible with these units, unless - as Gemstar claims the the d-to-a converters will do - the digital channel is converted to an analog version before being passed to the Sony...

So what happened? Tony

PS can you remind me how you know what "guide version" you have? Thanks (I know where the firmware version is (mine is .09)

WhatHappend

02-28-08, 10:32 PM

More Good News!!

I reset my SONY and powered it up before it could get the time. I tuned to the OTA ATSC CBS channel and did the 9012 Gemstart test screen and the SONY acquired the Correct TIME......... It acquired the time on about the 9th VBI packet received while I watched a HD program ("Without a Trace") in the PIP window.

We always knew the SONY and the hooks for ATSC guide reception based on the service menus. I wonder how reliable it will be?

I am not using any converter box. This is decoding the time and VBI information from the digital CBS feed via a antenna.

WhatHappend

02-28-08, 10:39 PM

Tony
PS can you remind me how you know what "guide version" you have? Thanks (I know where the firmware version is (mine is .09)
Tony,

Look for posts by a great guy named spiff72. (look at his signature to learn all there is to know.......)

(If you don't want to look back one or two post to find a post by this man, then you can go to post#1 like all forums and look for a link to a FAQ page.)

AarDee

02-28-08, 10:47 PM

WhatHappend: Keep that good news comin'

WhatHappend

02-28-08, 10:56 PM

There might be some serious bugs with receiving digital VBI data. My TVGOS version has changed to: 08.01.42/00.00.00/00.00.00 ((All the Ads are gone. But the Next DST transistion is still 3/9/2008 which is good whew)

It was 08.01.41/08.06.44/(I don't rember the third digits).
I just looked at it 2 hours ago and it was fine. I wonder if the TVGOS version sent over the digital stream is not compadible with the SONY guide version????

Good news:

( AFTER REBOOT on CBS ATSC channel 100% time)
((Just a note that on NBC ATSC channel the PAT 1, PMT 3, TVG 0))
The ATSC-ATSC Slicer Screen
Tot Pkts 0
PAT 19 (and increase was 18 20seconds ago) (At 26 now)
PMT 19 (and increase was 18 20seconds ago) (At 26 now)
TVG 2608 (Continuesly jump packets every few seconds) (at 3480 now)

Section Reception -VBI Stats
ZipcodePkts 1
HostSchedule 1

J__Chris

02-28-08, 11:52 PM

Good news indeed, having the clock itself is good. Perhaps Mark will be able to duplicate this.

WhatHappend

02-29-08, 12:01 AM

For the cable customers, I tuned to CBS HD over cable and the VBI packets are received on that the cable channel (QAM256). The ATSC-ATSC Slicer Data is also updating just like the OTA CBS HD channel.

NOTE:
I have Mediacom cable with cable card and they are only sending 2 OTA HD channels per QAM256 channel. Other cable systems might be packing more OTA channels per cable channel. If they are packing extra channels their re-encoding the channel and you might get a different result.

kwg

02-29-08, 11:55 AM

With the current discussion regarding CBS/Gemstar, I was curious why the Houston CBS affiliate (KHOU www.khou.com) doesn't seem to have digital Gemstar to date. One reason could be that KHOU is not "owned-and-operated" (O&O) by CBS.

http://www.cbscorporation.com/our_company/divisions/cbs_stations/index.php
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/31/utility/main517034.shtml

Per the above, CBS also has affiliation with:
The CW Network, MyNetworkTV, and independents

Looking at a Gemstar-related article from 2007:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6435011.html
CBS to Carry Gemstar-TV Guide IPG Data
TV Guide On Screen to Be Available to 95% of U.S. Households
By Todd Spangler -- Multichannel News, 4/19/2007 11:33:00 AM

distribution of data for the TV Guide On Screen IPG over
both CBS owned-and-operated stations and participating affiliates

Gemstar-TV Guide’s deal with CBS is not technically exclusive,
but, Carson said, "This is clearly the single way we want to do
our [digital] distribution."

Notice that it says "participating" in the text above for non-'CBS owned-and-operated'.

WhatHappend

02-29-08, 02:10 PM

My TVGOS version has changed to: 08.01.42/00.00.00/00.00.00 ((All the Ads are gone. But the Next DST transistion is still 3/9/2008 which is good whew)

It was 08.01.42/08.06.44/(I don't rember the third digits)

The host is still 0:4-1 today.
It downloaded a version of TVGuide I have never had before last night. The download version is now 08.05.40 and there is no ads. So that means it downloaded valid data via a digital channel.

Has anybody had version 08.05.40 in the past? I wonder if this was a version that worked with ATSC VBI data??

Full version 08.01.42/08.05.40/00.00.00

The Guide didn't work until I soft rebooted (The forced clock set worked on the digital CBS channel again). I hope that was just an issue with the different guide version download.

Edit - UPDATE in less then 1 hour being off the version has changed again. It is now 08.06.44 (latest). Weird....

REWAT

02-29-08, 02:57 PM

This was discussed back in Oct of last year. (page 352, reply #10533)

It goes on to say that the guide would be lost when a reboot occurs. I would assume this would be a cold-boot.

WhatHappend

02-29-08, 04:08 PM

This was discussed back in Oct of last year. (page 352, reply #10533) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11878217#post11878217

It goes on to say that the guide would be lost when a reboot occurs. I would assume this would be a cold-boot.
If this post was aimed at my post about guide version 08.05.40, I don't see the connection? Do you own a SONY? What do you know about service menus and intial vs downloaded TVGOS versions. Please explain the connection..... I have rebooted my SONY and never lost a TVGOS download version. The main reset in the service menu would wipe the entire sony HDD to factory firmware and TVGOS version but I have never done that. I added a link to your reference.

REWAT

02-29-08, 05:16 PM

Sorry for the cryptic reply. I do have this machine. I've only had it for about 6 months and use it strictly for OTA recording (no cable card). The earlier discussions about the TVGOS software updates alluded to the fact that the only way to make them permanent was to have Sony embed the changes in a firmware update.

On a different subject. I tried performing the VBI test throught the 9012 menu. I get good VBI packets on the analog PBS station. I tried it on the digital CBS station and got no VBI packets (good or bad). I live in the Phoenix area. I currently am getting guide data from the analog PBS station. Maybe the local station is prepared for the new digital SW updates to the TVGOS??

I haven't had much experience in using the 9012 menu for the VBI test. So I don't know how to debug the info for the various fields.

WhatHappend

02-29-08, 08:21 PM

avnstf

02-29-08, 08:32 PM

WOW...As noted due to a previous post, I haven't gotten much into the issue of guide version myself. Only recently came back to looking at this board after a problem with dropped recording, and noticed the increased level of discussion about what happens when analog goes away.

I am VERY interested in the post referred to from several months ago about a GUIDE version (8.01.65) that enables the Sony to pick up the guide from a digital station AND ALSO the fact that What Happened seems to have gotten guide data from his CBS digital station....(if only temporarily)

any idea what this means in terms of the Sony ITSELF working in the coming digital age (I mean without depending on one of the d-to-a converters successfully passing the guide data in a form that the Sony will accept)?

probably no answer yet, but I appreciate those who are willing to experiment with their machines to see what happens...I am fraid we won't have a dependable answer until analog disappears and see what the Sony actually does...

bottom line, though, appears to be:

1. if we get a guide version that will work with digital, it will only work in the LONG run if it's in place as the FIRMWARE version (otherwise a reboot will displace it with the original version)

2. Sony apparently could give us firmware that includes such a guide right now (although it might make more sense for them to give it to us up closer to the analog turnoff, to make sure they've got the bugs out)

Finally, it really burns me that neither Sony nor Gemstar puts updates on the situation on their public websites!!!

avnstf

02-29-08, 08:44 PM

After doing the 9012 menu you can download guide data with the unit on on the current channel (if it is a guide channel). (Don't change channels) This should help setup a new guide download without waiting over night.

IT WORKS ON A DIGITAL CHANNEL.

After last nights software download of TVGOS I didn't get listings for the 8th Day Friday. I left the SONY tuned to the OTA ATSC channel and left the unit on and now Friday is all filled in.

OUR UNITS WILL WORK AFTER THE 2009....... We may have to leave them on the CBS digtial channel but that is no big deal.......

No need to buy one of those HD tuner converters....

do you mean you left your unit ON during the day today and it downloaded the Friday data?

that's good, but if the converters work, I'd choose leaving THAT always tuned to the CBS digital channel, so I didn't have to worry about it (and also because I have an LG 3410a to coax into working...

(PS of course I'm much prefer that Sony just gave us a firmware version that includes a firmware guide that works with digital in the standard way...but once again, thanks for working on this...I'm feeling more optimistic about both my units working next year...)

WhatHappend

02-29-08, 08:46 PM

if only temporarily
Why is it temporary..??.. It will work for me until CBS quits sending the TVGOS signal. My unit just went from the stock version and updated itself the the current TVGOS version over the Digital host channel. What more could we want.

1. if we get a guide version that will work with digital, it will only work in the LONG run if it's in place as the FIRMWARE version (otherwise a reboot will displace it with the original version)
The TVGOS version does not disapear after a reboot. I am working with the standard 08.06.44 version so the phantom version isn't needed.

Please, Don't anybody else quote the tech support idiot at Gemstar that may have been mis-quoted as saying the Sony deletes the TVGOS version during reboot. Try it yourself and don't post this garbage unless your own results prove it does.

WhatHappend

02-29-08, 08:52 PM

do you mean you left your unit ON during the day today and it downloaded the Friday data?

(PS of course I'm much prefer that Sony just gave us a firmware version that includes a firmware guide that works with digital in the standard way...but once again, thanks for working on this...I'm feeling more optimistic about both my units working next year...)

Yes, left it on for < 5 hours (but notice I did the 9012 Gemstar test before I left. That test seems to force the Time-set and TVG downloading until the channel is changed).

I am optimistic it is going to update by itself tonight for Saturday. I will post the results.

Ray1938

02-29-08, 10:04 PM

bottom line, though, appears to be:

1. if we get a guide version that will work with digital, it will only work in the LONG run if it's in place as the FIRMWARE version (otherwise a reboot will displace it with the original version)

2. Sony apparently could give us firmware that includes such a guide right now (although it might make more sense for them to give it to us up closer to the analog turnoff, to make sure they've got the bugs out)

Finally, it really burns me that neither Sony nor Gemstar puts updates on the situation on their public websites!!!

Firmware update is not permanent. I updated one of my units to the latest firmware and later reset it to factory settings and the unit reverted back to 0.5. I wasn't concerned about the rollback since I know that firmware is only to fix compatibility problems with the tv.

From the recent postings by Whathappened, seems like Gemstar has made the necessary changes for the DVRs to continue working after Analog is shut off - without us having to do anything. I doubt that we will need to keep the DVR tuned to CBS for guide download since the DVR automatically seeks the guide channel. Just need to turn it off at night like we do now.

Ray

jrn23

02-29-08, 10:48 PM

I'm also in the Twin Cities. So are you guys saying that the 9012 VBI indicates it PASSED? I've tried running the VBI test on 4.1 OTA and it fails, even though it appears data is being passed. Are you then forcing 4.1 to be your host to obtain guide data? I also have a cable card so my default host channel is 97, PBS analog simulcast from comcast. I know, Mark, you do not have a cable card, but WhatHappend, do you have a cable card?

avnstf

02-29-08, 11:20 PM

Please, Don't anybody else quote the tech support idiot at Gemstar that may have been mis-quoted as saying the Sony deletes the TVGOS version during reboot. Try it yourself and don't post this garbage unless your own results prove it does.

sorry...I am just trying to understand the implications of what I'm reading, and - as I said - I appreciate what you've been doing...

jrn23

02-29-08, 11:44 PM

When I tune to 4-1 and run the Gemstar factory test in the 9012 menu, I get VBI PASSED and see VBI packets arriving at about 2 per second. This worked both before and after I tried forcing it to be the host channel.

Thanks Mark, I figured out why i wasn't passing the test. I only recently added the antenna connection and hadn't gone through the setup through the guide. So there were no over the air channels in the guide. Took care of that and now 4.1 passes.

WhatHappend

02-29-08, 11:58 PM

I know, Mark, you do not have a cable card, but WhatHappend, do you have a cable card?
Yes, I have had a cable card the last 2-3 months. That is not really relevant though.

jrn23

03-01-08, 12:13 AM

Yes, I have had a cable card the last 2-3 months. That is not really relevant though.

No it is not relevant as long as the antenna setup is done properly. Mine wasn't. And it doesn't appear my cable service is passing the VBI on the equivalent QAM channel for 4.1 since it does not pass the VBI test. One more question, just to clarify I should leave the unit on over night after doing a warm reset and a force VBI? Thanks!!!!

WhatHappend

03-01-08, 12:56 AM

Hey, looks like we've already uncovered an interesting wrinkle... cable companies recompressing the digital OTA channel into a QAM channel are probably going to inadvertently strip the guide data unless all equipment in the pipeline knows how to deal with that Digital Video Standard 706 “VBI-in-MPEG” business...

It is possible but if you read my earlier posts my cable company's QAM256 version of 4.1 passes the VBI and sends TVG packets in the ATSC slicer screen. Like I said Mediacom is only sending 2 over the air channels per 256 QAM channel.

WhatHappend

03-01-08, 01:20 AM

One more question, just to clarify I should leave the unit on over night after doing a warm reset and a force VBI? Thanks!!!!
I am experimenting with the abilities of the Sony DHG to receive the TVGOS signal from a digital channel. I have two other DVRs and with the writers strike didn't care if the SONY wasn't able to record shows every day. I wanted to know if I should be thinking about dumping the SONY on Ebay and buying a TIVO HD (it would be cheaper then the Cable companies 2 tuner DVR after my 1 year promotion is over.)

An interesting experiment might be (my host started as analog CBS):
0) Note your current Host channel
1) disable your auto-shutoff.
2) Tune to CBS HD OTA
3) Do the 9012 -> Gemstar Test (If VBI are received proceed but don't exit the test)
4) Leave the unit overnight
5) In the morning see if you have 8th Day guide information
6) See what the host channel is
7) Note your TVGOS version

We could see if all the CBS stations across the country are transmitting the TVGOS signal on the digital channels. Those without digital could see if their cable systems are passing digital TVGOS.

jtbell

03-01-08, 05:25 AM

I just tried the VBI test on both of the CBS stations that I can receive well here: 7.1 WSPA-DT (Spartanburg SC) and 3.1 WBTV-DT (Charlotte NC). No joy. :(

So it looks like I'll have to wait until one of them actually starts sending the Gemstar data.

AarDee

03-01-08, 08:43 AM

I am experimenting with the abilities of the Sony DHG to receive the TVGOS signal from a digital channel. I have two other DVRs and with the writers strike didn't care if the SONY wasn't able to record shows every day. I wanted to know if I should be thinking about dumping the SONY on Ebay and buying a TIVO HD (it would be cheaper then the Cable companies 2 tuner DVR after my 1 year promotion is over.)

An interesting experiment might be (my host started as analog CBS):
0) Note your current Host channel
1) disable your auto-shutoff.
2) Tune to CBS HD OTA
3) Do the 9012 -> Gemstar Test (If VBI are received proceed but don't exit the test)
4) Leave the unit overnight
5) In the morning see if you have 8th Day guide information
6) See what the host channel is
7) Note your TVGOS version

We could see if all the CBS stations across the country are transmitting the TVGOS signal on the digital channels. Those without digital could see if their cable systems are passing digital TVGOS.

You leave the unit overnight in the 9012 -> Gemstar test? This allows it to get guide information with the unit on where normally the unit must be off to get guide information? Thanks, AarDee.

kwg

03-01-08, 11:32 AM

There were 3 more CBS stations reported as not having an active digital TVGOS. None are owned-and-operated by CBS.

I tried performing the VBI test throught the 9012 menu.
I get good VBI packets on the analog PBS station.
I tried it on the digital CBS station and got no VBI packets (good or bad).
I live in the Phoenix area.
I currently am getting guide data from the analog PBS station.

http://www.kpho.com
© 2008, KPHO; Phoenix, AZ.
(A Meredith Corporation Station)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPHO
It is currently owned by Meredith Corporation.

====

I just tried the VBI test on both of the CBS stations that I can receive well here:
7.1 WSPA-DT (Spartanburg SC) and 3.1 WBTV-DT (Charlotte NC).
No joy.

www.wspa.com
Copyright ï¿½ 2008 Media General Inc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSPA-TV
The station is owned by Media General

www.wbtv.com
Copyright © 2008
WBTV Inc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WBTV
WBTV is currently owned by Lincoln Financial Media,
the Philadelphia-based broadcasting arm of Lincoln Financial Group,
but is in the process of being sold to Raycom Media of Montgomery, Alabama.

WhatHappend

03-01-08, 01:16 PM

You leave the unit overnight in the 9012 -> Gemstar test? This allows it to get guide information with the unit on where normally the unit must be off to get guide information? Thanks, AarDee.

Acctually just initiating the G* Test starts the VBI packet reception of the current channel (The test screen can be exited). My box becomes slower to respond. The reception is cancelled if you change channels. It doesn't have to be overnight, there are 4 long download/day here. Looks like the overnight one starts at 2:30 AM CST.

hcady

03-01-08, 01:23 PM

Maybe useful to turn off the analog host channel while experimenting. Then maybe you
could find out if the Sony can find the digital host and if it sticks.

WhatHappend

03-01-08, 01:25 PM

hcady

03-01-08, 01:33 PM

I turned off all analog channels when I first got my Sony and lost all quide data until
I turned the host back on.

WhatHappend

03-01-08, 01:39 PM

I turned off all analog channels when I first got my Sony and lost all quide data until
I turned the host back on.

The TVGOS might have access to the CableCard channel list?? CableCard channel list is sent all the time on a OOB data channel 75 MHz here.

HSVHD

03-01-08, 02:36 PM

...
We could see if all the CBS stations across the country are transmitting the TVGOS signal on the digital channels. Those without digital could see if their cable systems are passing digital TVGOS.
VBI test fails for CBS HD OTA in Little Rock, AR. Same HD channel on Suddenlink cable also fails VBI test.

WhatHappend

03-01-08, 03:06 PM

VBI test fails for CBS HD OTA in Little Rock, AR. Same HD channel on Suddenlink cable also fails VBI test.

By Fails do you mean no VBI packets are received? The test status on the left is not accurate. If the packets don't start fast enough it says "failed".

HSVHD

03-01-08, 05:41 PM

By Fails do you mean no VBI packets are received? The test status on the left is not accurate. If the packets don't start fast enough it says "failed".

No VBI packets are received; good, fixed, or bad. Tested for ~3 minutes.

I wish it would work because I have no TVGOS now. The tower fell last month holding the PBS analog transmitter and it's not likely that TVGOS will be available at my location again until TVGOS is transmitted by the non-CBS owned CBS HD Little Rock station, if ever.

osu1991

03-02-08, 09:03 PM

Tried digital CBS OTA in Tulsa and received no VBI whatsoever. Tried all the other local digitals including the statewide PBS where we get our analog guide info from and none of them had any VBI packets.

srw1000

03-02-08, 09:17 PM

Ray1938

03-02-08, 10:01 PM

I couldn't get any VBI information from my local CBS station (WDJT: OTA from Milwaukee), after trying three different times.

I've asked a question about it in our local HDTV forum. There are a number of local insiders posting there, so maybe someone will post some new information.

Hopefully, this is slowly being rolled out across the country and we'll all get it eventually.

Scott

Either the guide station is yet to be established or maybe station doesn't output VBI continuously, only at certain times of the day or night. CBS is the new source for guide data except if community doesn't have a CBS outlet, I assume it will come from a PBS station. I suggest you enjoy your DVR, as I do, and assume that the DVR will automatically do the right thing. Until next February, not getting a VBI signal from an HD channel is a non-problem.

Ray

Rbrodzinsky

03-03-08, 11:08 AM

Tucknan

03-03-08, 12:30 PM

I checked KPIX-DT (5.1) (CBS owned and operated) in the SF Bay Area, and there is about 1 VBI packet per second. Analog KQED ch 9 (PBS), current TVGOS channel, is sending about 3-4 packets per second. Was not brave enough to try a force VBI host this weekend.

I checked CBS-HD (channel 2.1) this weekend here in LA and did get packets (about 2 per second) and a PASS on VBI test. I did the force VBI host to 2.1 and did get 8th day data the next morning. So far, it looks like it is receiving good TVGOS data from CBS digital. I will report back if I have any problems or other observations.

Tucknan

03-03-08, 04:16 PM

Tucknan, is 2-1 showing up as your host channel in the TVGOS diagnostics?

Actually, no. It is showing 0:0-11 as the host channel and 0:2-1 as the VBI channel. Usually, 0:0-28 has been the host channel and VBI channel (analog PBS on Ch 28). I have no knowledge of analog 11 handling our data here, nor how the machine changed itself to that host channel listing. But my clock is correct and my listings have kept populating properly since last Saturday. I have not tried disabling analog 28 yet... I guess that would be a more positive test as to where the data is really coming from. I hate to mess much with it while it is workinig!!!

When I do the 9012 G Factory Test, I get:
Flash PASS
VBI Test PASS
ATSC Test PASS
Serial Test FAIL
IR Test FAIL

I understand the two fails are normal. Has anyone actually tried blocking the normal analog channel for data in their area to see if digital channel data is actually working for sure?

jmonier

03-03-08, 05:23 PM

I have not tried disabling analog 28 yet... I guess that would be a more positive test as to where the data is really coming from.

Note that I've had analog 28 disabled ever since I got the unit (>1 yr) and I get listings consistently from host and VBI 28 so that may not be a valid test.

jrn23

03-03-08, 06:01 PM

So this means 0:2-1 was the channel the DVR was tuned to when you went into the diagnostics (the label "VBI channel" is misleading; it's really the "current channel"), and you are getting guide data from analog channel 11 (the host channel). It seems likely that, overnight, the DVR searched for a new host and reverted to channel 11 instead of getting guide data from 2-1. That's pretty much what happened in my case too (forced host channel to 4-1 but by morning, the DVR had reverted to analog 9).

For me, it appeared any time I was successful in getting the Host Channel locked into 4.1, it would eventually freeze up the system. I'd end up having to do a front panel soft reset to recover. I do like the fact that it appears you can force the clock to set with the Guide VBI test on Digital CBS. This at least keeps the unit useful beyond Feb. 2009 at a minimum. Hopefully by then though, the digital guide will be working as we hope.

Tucknan

03-03-08, 06:13 PM

So this means 0:2-1 was the channel the DVR was tuned to when you went into the diagnostics (the label "VBI channel" is misleading; it's really the "current channel"), and you are getting guide data from analog channel 11 (the host channel). It seems likely that, overnight, the DVR searched for a new host and reverted to channel 11 instead of getting guide data from 2-1. That's pretty much what happened in my case too (forced host channel to 4-1 but by morning, the DVR had reverted to analog 9).

You are right, Mark. The VBI channel is the current channel. I did the 9012 G Factory Test on analog ch 11 and it passed there too. I don't know if that is where my overnight guide is coming from, but if so, that is a new development. Up until this weekend, it has come from the local PBS channel on analog 28. But my Host channel has read 0:0-11 for several days now and I have a full eight days of program data. The mystery deepens...

MegaToad

03-04-08, 07:29 AM

With all this talk about CBS passing VBI packets on the digital channel I had to go home and try the G * test on my system in the twin cities (Minnesota). Well long story short I ran the G* Factory reset in stead (wiped all my tv guide data including the clock). Once I got over my stupidity I looked at this as an opportunity.

So, I went into the set up and gave it my zip code and that I have both cable and OTA set up on the DVR. Then went and did the 369874125 deal to force the host channel. I used the dvr the rest of the night since it’s the only ATSC tuner I have (old antiquated CRT HDTV that has no build in tuner). Some time wile I was watching channel 11 (11.1) news the DVR clock got set to the correct time (it started at midnight a few hours before since I did the G* reset). I then shut off the DVR over night.

This am when I woke up the DVR prompted me for my channel lie up:
Charter Basic
Charter Expanded
Charter Digital
Ect.

I chose charter expanded since that is the service I have thru my provider. I then proceeded to the TV guide grid and I can see all my tv channels turned on that should be on for my service including the OTA channels. However All the listing are ‘no title’ or ‘no listing’! It did have the correct grid layout (where there was suppose to be a 30 min show the grid showed a 30 min time block and a two hour one for a two hour show ect.). I also received all the advertisements in the TV guide.

The TV Guide service menu shows that the Host Chanel is 0:4-1 (the CBS station).

spiff72

03-04-08, 07:39 AM

I spoke with someone at Gemstar yesterday about a local issue with my cable company, and told him that I had heard reports of people in the Minneapolis area who are getting their DVR's to use a digital channel (CBS) as their host. He seemed surprised by this, and said that their software is set up in a way that analog host channels will take precedence over a digital host channel. He told me this after I told him that the people seeing this were finding the digital host channels were reverting back to analog hosts after a day or two.

I told him that the host channel in the diagnostics page was showing the digital channel, and that these digital channels were passing the VBI test. He then commented that passing/failing the VBI test isn't necessarily a reliable indicator of success/failure.

Just thought I would pass this info on...

WhatHappend

03-04-08, 12:45 PM

I chose charter expanded since that is the service I have thru my provider. I then proceeded to the TV guide grid and I can see all my tv channels turned on that should be on for my service including the OTA channels. However All the listing are ‘no title’ or ‘no listing’! It did have the correct grid layout (where there was suppose to be a 30 min show the grid showed a 30 min time block and a two hour one for a two hour show ect.). I also received all the advertisements in the TV guide.

The TV Guide service menu shows that the Host Chanel is 0:4-1 (the CBS station).

Until you select a provider it doesn't download any of the shows data (all the channels are disabled.) After you select a provider you provoder's channels are enabled and the following update period the shows will download. If I know my provider is adding a channel I find it in the guide channel screen and turn it on early that way when the channel shows up the guide data is already there (I then ussally turn off the duplicate one I turned on).

hcady

03-04-08, 01:01 PM

I found in my case after selecting the lineup, some listings are there, also the first chan.
listed in the guide should be the host for that lineup. There could be other host stations
not selected at that time.

Ray1938

03-04-08, 02:04 PM

With all this talk about CBS passing VBI packets on the digital channel I had to go home and try the G * test on my system in the twin cities (Minnesota). Well long story short I ran the G* Factory reset in stead (wiped all my tv guide data including the clock).

I'm surprised nobody hasn't posted a caution for running the guide test since it's very easy to choose reset instead, which I did twice, a long time ago, but hopefully never again. Too bad there isn't an alert window linked to the reset option saying "are you sure you want to reset? yes/no"

Ray

MegaToad

03-04-08, 09:01 PM

Until you select a provider it doesn't download any of the shows data (all the channels are disabled.) After you select a provider you provoder's channels are enabled and the following update period the shows will download. If I know my provider is adding a channel I find it in the guide channel screen and turn it on early that way when the channel shows up the guide data is already there (I then ussally turn off the duplicate one I turned on).
An update to my little experience with the reset. I got home from work today 2pm or so and day one, two and eight where fully populated with guide data. What is interesting is that day three, four, six and seven where about 40% populated. Day five (Sat) was about 80% populated. Remember I fully waxed my guide data yesterday with the G * reset.

My Host channel is still set to 0:4-1 (WCCO in the Twin Cities our CBS affiliate)

WhatHappend

03-04-08, 09:58 PM

I'm surprised nobody hasn't posted a caution for running the guide test since it's very easy to choose reset instead, which I did twice, a long time ago, but hopefully never again.

HERE IS YOUR CAUTION. IF YOU TYPE IN A SERVICE CODE YOU MAY CHANGE A SETTING (isn't that what you wanted to do?????)

The general rule of thumb is if a setting is protected with a code in a hidden menu it is deemed too complex for an ordinary user. I thought this was obvious. Is there someone that thinks "boy I wonder if the manufacture realizes how hard it is to type these long strings, it would have been much easier if it was option 10 in the menu"?

I am actually surprised any setting change in a hidden menu has a user confirmation screen. These menus are not intended for users.

AR10

03-05-08, 01:04 AM

TIVO HD recorder for sale on WOOT right now.

MegaToad

03-05-08, 07:36 AM

This is day two since I reset all my TV guide data! This AM my host channel is still set to the digital channel for CBS (WCCO) ‘0:4-1’. I have full listing for Day One, Two, Seven and Eight as I would have expected (as this is how the analog channels worked?). I also seem to have full listing for day four (Sat) and day Five (Sun). Day three and six seem to have 95-98% of there listings as well (NBC, FOX have no listing at all and the CW seems to be missing a few here and there).

I have also noticed over the past two days that the HDD seems to be running ~10F hotter than normal (~95F to ~104-105F) when I check it in the AM when I first wake up. During heavy use it now tapes off around 113F where it is normally around 105-108F? Most HDDs are rated to operate as warm as 130F so I am not worried about it but it does seems to run warmer now (may not be related to the digital host channel).

sivartk

03-05-08, 10:24 AM

TIVO HD recorder for sale on WOOT right now.

...still requires monthly fee...pass.

seti1

03-05-08, 11:39 AM

Anyone still selling these units at a close out price?

Joe Warner

03-05-08, 12:35 PM

Anyone still selling these units at a close out price?
There is someone on ebay selling a 250 as new. See item number 260216770945.

thewarm

03-05-08, 05:25 PM

MegaToad

03-05-08, 09:04 PM

After work today the Guide is now 100% compleate for all my OTA and cable channels. Thats for all 8 days. It re populated all of it in less than 48hr! The host channel is still 4.1.

vfrjim

03-05-08, 09:37 PM

...still requires monthly fee...pass.

Sold both of mine hdd250's and bought 2 TiVOHD's with lifetime service. After all said and done, cost me about $75 each to get rid of the crappy TVGOS and all the added benefits that the Tivo gives you. and NO monthly fees.

It's just great to be able to schedule recordings online and then transfer the recordings to my PC for backup :)

TheRatPatrol

03-06-08, 12:29 AM

Sold both of mine hdd250's and bought 2 TiVOHD's with lifetime service. After all said and done, cost me about $75 each to get rid of the crappy TVGOS and all the added benefits that the Tivo gives you. and NO monthly fees.

It's just great to be able to schedule recordings online and then transfer the recordings to my PC for backup :)
I thought they did away with lifetime service?

Thanks

bfdtv

03-06-08, 12:50 AM

I thought they did away with lifetime service?They brought it back last fall.

If you aren't a current TiVo owner, the only way to get lifetime on the first TiVo is to buy their $699 gift package (http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-promo/show.do?pg=/buytivo/hdgift.html). Anyone with a TiVo can add lifetime to a TivoHD for $399. The TivoHD itself costs $199-$250, or $180 for a refurb at Woot, so if you don't have any TiVos, the total cost for the first "feeless" TiVoHD is $699, and each additional "feeless" TivoHD will cost you $580 to $650.

If the TivoHD dies outside of the warranty period, TiVo will repair or replace it [with a refurb] for $100 and move your lifetime to that. I'm not sure how that compares to what Sony charges for repair / replacement.

I decided not to buy lifetime for my TivoHD because I intend to upgrade to their next-generation Tru2Way box (http://www.tivolovers.com/2008/03/05/tivo-developing-standalone-ocaptru2way-box/) when it comes out late this year or next. IMO, to really make lifetime service worthwhile, you've got to keep a box for at least three or four years. I just can't see myself doing that with the current pace of technology advancement. I like to have the latest and greatest.

Rammitinski

03-06-08, 03:18 AM

LukeSkiewalker

03-06-08, 10:48 AM

Maybe I'm fortunate, but the 7th, 8th and 9th versions of TVGOS with all of my recorders has never been "crappy" for me. It's always served me well.

I'm right there with you. After I bricked my SD Phillips DVR a little over a year ago I decided I might as well look for an HD DVR. My main requirement (other than no fees) was for it to have TVGOS. I've used the Tivo interface and don't really like it. And TVGOS is much better than the guide my Cable company uses.

rcrach

03-06-08, 12:40 PM

I'm OTA-only (as far as HD), and my Sony's still working perfectly, so if I need to replace it with anything before or after 02/'09, it'll be the TR-50. I have pretty simple, basic needs. I have no use for all the extra bells and whistles of a TiVo. And there's nothing worthwhile enough OTA in HD that I'd even want to transfer to DVD in HD at this point.

Unless the TR-50 never sees the light of day, and there's no other fee-less, standalone alternative. Then maybe I'll consider TiVo.

Maybe I'm fortunate, but the 7th, 8th and 9th versions of TVGOS with all of my recorders has never been "crappy" for me. It's always served me well.

Same here, I've had the sony for almost 3 years and -never- had any guide issues, zilch, slightly slow response but it is a linux box. I'm OTA only and maybe it's a testament to the engineers at KQED (SF bay area) but it just keeps chugging along. They never did that .44 roll out here either, it's still at .42. I like it so much I went out and bought another one at the clearance center last year to tinker with when I get the time. It's still sitting in my garage. It's probably because of when I grew up but I've never understood why anyone would pay to watch television. Either all up front or month to month.

pdugg

03-09-08, 03:58 PM

For you folks who couldn't get the firmware to install.

I tried to apply firmware 1.2.13 with three different USB thumb drives with the prescribed file arrangement as well as others without success. I found that unplugging the DVR for about 30 seconds allowed me to successfully upgrade the firmware. I have DHGHDD250 with original firmware of 1.2.09.

Before I tried unplugging the unit, all three thumb drives weren't not recognized by the DVR: nothing happened. When the thumb drive worked, the on screen prompt appeared almost immediately after inserting the thumb drive.

I successfully used a Lexar JumpDrive Secure 256 MB formatted as Fat32 with a volume name of SONYHDD500. The drive only had the Sony folder on it, which contains the three firmware files.

One plus of the new firmware I've found is that after viewing a recording and deleting it there is no longer a delay for the TV image to appear. I used to have a three to five second delay (black screen) after deleting a program.

Paul

DonInJackson

03-09-08, 10:38 PM

pdugg

03-09-08, 11:02 PM

Can you clarify where in the update process you unplugged the dvr? Did you unplug the dvr, insert the jumpdrive, plug in the dvr, power on the DVR? Or was it some other sequence? I want to try the update, but would like to know the proper sequence before I attempt the update on my hdd500 and hdd250

Sure. First I unplugged the DVR, like a hard boot for computer, and then let it boot up. I think this was needed in my case because none of the thumb drives were recognized, plus I never unplug the DVR either. Then i turned on the DVR and it's tuned to some channel, doesn't matter which one. Insert the thumb drive and then you get the prompt for the firmware update and you're on your way.

In addition to eliminating the black screen after deleting a recording, I've noticed faster (at least by a second) channel changes and the DVR stops on a dime when going forward to skip commercials. I fast forward past commercials.

pdugg

03-09-08, 11:10 PM

Sure. First I unplugged the DVR, like a hard boot for computer, and then let it boot up. I think this was needed in my case because none of the thumb drives were recognized, plus I never unplug the DVR either. Then i turned on the DVR and it's tuned to some channel, doesn't matter which one. Insert the thumb drive and then you get the prompt for the firmware update and you're on your way.

In addition to eliminating the black screen after deleting a recording, I've noticed faster (at least by a second) channel changes and the DVR stops on a dime when going forward to skip commercials. I fast forward past commercials.

More concisely, unplug it for 30 seconds, plug back in and wait till booted, turn on, insert thumb drive.

Eddie39

03-10-08, 10:12 AM

Where are you getting firmware 1.2.13? Sony doesn't have it on their website.

LukeSkiewalker

03-10-08, 10:17 AM

I would assume that they are getting it here: http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section119 It's the only place I have seen it published.

spiff72

03-10-08, 10:37 AM

I would assume that they are getting it here: http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section119 It's the only place I have seen it published.

I will try to update that section to suggest the unplug/wait 30 sec/plug in sequence prior to attempting the update.

Thanks,
Jeff

ragwing

03-10-08, 10:57 AM

WhatHappend

03-10-08, 12:02 PM

I read here about redoing the channel scan and reset, but have not attempted it is as the guide information will be lost during that procedure.

Sorry, the only known cure is the proceedure listed in the FAQ site. (channel scan is not enough). Firmware update only offically changes HDMI functinoality with certain devices. If your HDMI is working and you don't have a cable card there is no known benefit.

The recent faster delete times and channel change times have never been reported before. I have .05 and don't have a 5 second pause after deleting. Since the poster didn't seem to know that you don't need to unplug and the front panel soft reset is the prefered way to reboot the box, his unit was probally suffering never being rebooted. Like a computer is after a few months things are not working as they ussally do, just do a front panel reset. If your TVGOS channel is working you will not lose anything and have the time in only a few minutes.

Marc_G

03-10-08, 01:03 PM

Hello All,
I also have the locking up issue you all are experiencing since last year. If the unit is on and a scheduled recording is started, it locks up. If a recording is in progress, and an attempt is made to turn the unit on it locks up. Cable provider is comcast in Southern NJ. I have owned the DVR (HDD500) since new, close to 3 years ago. I do not use a cable card.

I read here about redoing the channel scan and reset, but have not attempted it is as the guide information will be lost during that procedure.

Will the firmware update help with this issue? I think I have read the issue is with the Gemstar guide firmware and not the DVR firmware, is this true? During the firmware update, do you loose the guide? What is the firmware update suppose to help with?

Take Care,
Louie

Hi Louie,

Do the reset/rescan procedure. It's worth it not to worry about the lockup. And while it does take a couple days to repopulate the guide fully, it doesn't really take much time to do the reset process. The original version (as per WhatHappened's notes a while back) included pulling the cable card and doing a scan, then re-inserting... and I found that this wasn't needed. I was sort of a guinea pig for the abbreviated version. It worked fine for me, and within a day I was back to normal operation, and within ~ 3 days had the whole guide populated. It did take me a little while to reorder the channels in the guide, of course. But that lockup was driving me nuts... and incurring wrath from my wife, which is worse.

Marc

frank70

03-10-08, 03:31 PM

Here in the Philadelphia area, the TVGOS analog host station is WHYY, PBS channel 12. This station also broadcasts the time only in its VBI; this is used by other (non-TVGOS) equipment.

Yesterday (the first day of DST), I noticed that my DVD recorder (which uses the channel 12 time) had advanced an hour to the correct Eastern Daylight time, but my Sony DHG was still stuck an hour in the past. The listings were also an hour in the past, and the listings for next Sunday, March 16th were sporadically incomplete. Furthermore the TVGOS version (which had been 8.06.44 for a long time) had reverted to 08.05.40 (a version that may not be aware of the modified DST dates, and that doesn't show ads) But curiously, the service menu showed that the unit knew it was supposed to be on DST, and the next DST transition listed was in the autumn. So the unit was in some sort of half-way-there state. I even rebooted it, but when the time refreshed several minutes later, it was still one hour off.

This morning, however, the Sony was showing the correct times, both on the front panel and throughout the listings; the TVGOS version was back to 8.06.44! Everything was fine except for seemingly random "No Listing" indications all over next Sunday's listings. I assume those will re-populate one of the times next Sunday comes due for update again.

Anybody else (either in Philly or elsewhere) notice this strange "jog"? Why would TVGOS purposely want to delay the onset of DST by one day?

ftaok

03-10-08, 03:53 PM

WhatHappend

03-10-08, 05:13 PM

I read spiff's FAQ regarding the reset/rescan procedure to get rid of the lock-up.

Just to make sure, will doing this delete the programs I have already recorded? I can handle losing the scheduled recordings, but losing Season 5 of DWTS would be too much for me to handle.

Also, the procedure mentions to "do a full channel scan". Is that the channel scan from within the TVGOS menu or the channel scan from the Sony menu?

Just follow the warning it is self explanatory:
WARNING - this is the one under the TVGOS menu in the 9012 menu, NOT THE ONE IN THE FIRST LEVEL OF THE 9012 menu - choosing the wrong one WILL DELETE ALL RECORDED PROGRAMS

Where is there a channel scan in the TVGOS menus?????
Yes, it is the SONY channel scan. Don't worry; the SONY "Reset User Configuration" puts the box in a wizard next boot that will walk you through the scan process.

pdugg

03-10-08, 05:24 PM

Sorry, the only known cure is the proceedure listed in the FAQ site. (channel scan is not enough). Firmware update only offically changes HDMI functinoality with certain devices. If your HDMI is working and you don't have a cable card there is no known benefit.

The recent faster delete times and channel change times have never been reported before. I have .05 and don't have a 5 second pause after deleting. Since the poster didn't seem to know that you don't need to unplug and the front panel soft reset is the prefered way to reboot the box, his unit was probally suffering never being rebooted. Like a computer is after a few months things are not working as they ussally do, just do a front panel reset. If your TVGOS channel is working you will not lose anything and have the time in only a few minutes.

I know about the front panel reboot (warm), which I do every week or so just to keep things clean. But I figured the best thing was to unplug it (hard reboot) to eliminate any possible issues.

I didn't expect to see the benefits I found, I just noticed them.

pdugg

03-10-08, 05:31 PM

I know about the front panel reboot (warm), which I do every week or so just to keep things clean. But I figured the best thing was to unplug it (hard reboot) to eliminate any possible issues.

I didn't expect to see the benefits I found, I just noticed them.

I was just thinking that the benefits (faster channel changes and no delay after deleting a recording) maybe peculiar to my TV which is a Sony KDS50A2000. I thought i saw mentioned in this thread the firmware update addressed TV compatibility issues. My guess is the compatibility issues are in the HDMI handshaking. That would explain why I see benefits and maybe very few other folks do.

frank70

03-11-08, 06:47 AM

I was just thinking that the benefits (faster channel changes and no delay after deleting a recording) maybe peculiar to my TV which is a Sony KDS50A2000. I thought i saw mentioned in this thread the firmware update addressed TV compatibility issues. My guess is the compatibility issues are in the HDMI handshaking. That would explain why I see benefits and maybe very few other folks do.I don't think the firmware necessarily affects channel change time - normally a long delay after a channel change indicates that your output format is "Auto HDMI", which means that the Sony re-negotiates the format with the TV over the HDMI channel on every channel change. A virtually useless bit of functionality (but the default after a reboot) - best you should just set the output format to 1080i. Otherwise, in addition to slow channel change, your guide will be shrunken if you display it while tuned to an SD or analog station.

rlh149

03-11-08, 11:13 AM

osu1991

03-11-08, 12:19 PM

It seems like for the last few weeks my guide information has only been filling in for a 24 hr period. I have not had this problem except for the last few weeks. Has any one else experienced this problem. I have now had my hdd250for almost 2 years.
Thanks
rlh149

I will have to check when I get home tonight. I use the Sony for OTA only and my Dish 722 for cable type programming and OTA, so I don't use the Sony every night. I haven't noticed any problems lately though. I checked all the Tulsa locals last week to see if any of the digital locals were passing vbi and guide info, they are not. Otherwise OETA has always been rock solid in providing the TVGoS info from analog channel 11.

MegaToad

03-11-08, 01:37 PM

:(Well after a few days of having a OTA digital host channel, an analog CBS channel took over last night. My host channel changed to cable CBS analog last night. :mad:

Not sure if this would happen to everyone that doesn't have cable though. Anytime I get a OTA host working the SONY eventually goes back to a cable host channel. I had removed all the analog network channels from the guide and from the SONY channel list. How does the TVGOS find them????
My Host channel is still 0:4-1 (WCCO digital) and its now been 7 days. My TV Guide seems to be functioning normally.

I did however go into the channel listing for the box and turned off all the analog channels (OTA and Cable) in my area that passes TV Guide data.

pdugg

03-11-08, 04:46 PM

I don't think the firmware necessarily affects channel change time - normally a long delay after a channel change indicates that your output format is "Auto HDMI", which means that the Sony re-negotiates the format with the TV over the HDMI channel on every channel change. A virtually useless bit of functionality (but the default after a reboot) - best you should just set the output format to 1080i. Otherwise, in addition to slow channel change, your guide will be shrunken if you display it while tuned to an SD or analog station.

Thanks for the tip. You're right the channel change time is dramatically reduced. I guess I never bothered to change the format.

LukeSkiewalker

03-11-08, 04:58 PM

I don't think the firmware necessarily affects channel change time - normally a long delay after a channel change indicates that your output format is "Auto HDMI", which means that the Sony re-negotiates the format with the TV over the HDMI channel on every channel change. A virtually useless bit of functionality (but the default after a reboot) - best you should just set the output format to 1080i. Otherwise, in addition to slow channel change, your guide will be shrunken if you display it while tuned to an SD or analog station.

I just wish mine would stay on the 1080i format. Every time I turn it on I have to change it back. But I do agree it makes changing channels go a lot faster. I didn't figure this out until a couple of months ago when I was re-reading the manual.

kc2kl

03-11-08, 05:58 PM

frank70

03-11-08, 06:21 PM

I've been searching the forum for 3 days now and also have called Sony CS but they are not much help. The question I have is, "Will the HDD500 continue to download the TV Guide listings if it starts recording in the middle of the download?" I understand that it has to be off to get the listings but I have recordings being made during all of the download times. Another way to ask the question is, "Does the tuner tune to the host channel while it is downloading?" ThanksSince the unit has only one tuner, it would be highly unlikely; recording would have to count as on. In the unlikely event you were recording the host channel itself, maybe... but I doubt it.

You even have a recording being made during the afternoon download time?

If you have had recordings scheduled this way for several days, just slew out to a week from now and see if you have all the listings - if you by some miracle do, count yourself very lucky.

Rammitinski

03-11-08, 07:24 PM

I've turned it on in the middle of downloading, and it was still on a non-host channel if I had left it on one last.

hmm52

03-11-08, 07:48 PM

I've owned two HDD250s for awhile, 20 & 28 months, and checked in on this thread periodically but have never posted here. So the first thing I should do is to thank spiff72, PhillyC, Ray1938 and the other oldtimers for all the information and workarounds. Your contributions have been invaluable even if I don't always follow advice provided.

Both 250s have lost guide data, guide itself, recordings, and lost access to hard drive altogether temporarily. Due to laziness and cautiousness, I've done nothing more than soft resets, sometimes hard ones out of frustration, and waited it out. Recordings, guide, data & function have always returned within 3-4 days, 5 max, so neither has been sent to PA service center. I updated one last summer to 1.2.13 (Mark Fontana zip file p315). Besides routine time slipping, my primary use has been for extensive recording of tennis tournaments, the majors having over ten hours of daily coverage day after day. Fortunately the 250s have never been dysfunctional on exactly the same days so at least one has always been available for this. Luck. The longest issue to resolve (and without intentional resets) was the recent one where any command was blocked during programmed recording - still usable at a basic level but very annoying. That problem took weeks before vanishing. Except for a Comcast lineup change and the switch to FIOS, I've only needed to remap guide channels once (the laziness factor).

I don't have the relevant technical expertise that most posters on this thread obviously have so I can't offer much, except possibly in one rather arcane area I stumbled my way through - in the strange world of HDCP protocol. For many months I lived with the 250s alternately feeding a bedroom Toshiba LCD at nothing higher than 480p. With 70 feet of combined HDMI cable, sparkles would usually appear onscreen at 720p & 1080i (if primary SXRD tv were configured this way, no sparkles). The 3 passive repeater/extenders I tried dramatically worsened the picture. My wife put it best: Instead of a handshake, the two devices were only interested in giving each other the finger. The update to 1.2.13 put a stop to the bad behaviour and provided a clear picture at all outputs. But at a cost. The updated 250 sensed the repeater and switched off component video to SXRD until HDMI path was severed. Moving the cable between port savers had gotten pretty old anyway. Time to move to next step.

The product which allowed great utility for this setup was a Belkin PureAV 3to1 HDMI switch. I was looking for a switch without any equalization/amplification circuitry but I got more than I expected with this one. Powered off (X10 module & RF keychain remote needed), neither DVR sense anything in the HDMI stream. With 3way switch powered on, the one with 1.2.13 shuts off comp. video. The other with 1.2.09 doesn't close display on SXRD until Toshiba is turned on & its HDMI input is selected. Beyond this, the Belkin switch blocks the earlier firmware 250 from seeing the repeater as an incompatible device and lets it do its job - no sparkles, no fingers. Besides universal remotes, other enabling pieces are from Next Generation Home Products - the repeater (passive or active) and the very clever IR-RF-IR system they sell; great range for both RF & IR. Monoprice cables & wall plates. The BluRay player is fine with this setup also, at 1080i anyway. There is one caveat to using this switch: With repeater removed, Toshiba picture had significantly worse than just sparkles in dark background. The Belkin weakens the video feed enough so that a repeater might be required when it wasn't before - depending on television and cable length presumably. Other than the handshake/finger issue, I haven't noticed any operational differences between 1.2.09 and 1.2.13. If there's an incompatible device, it announces itself immediately and dramatically, in my limited experience.

It is unlikely that many Sony owners are still considering either of the HD TiVo units - after the news here last month of receiving TVGOS data in a digital stream. As a hedge for the future and with fallen prices, I took the bait on a Series3 in January. I know. Great timing. So little faith. For anybody who still might be loosely contemplating the alternative, I'll compare TiVo to Sony in a separate post. While a guick stable guide and easy external storage are certainly nice to have, the TiVos fall short of the Sonys in some significant ways, not just in cost of guide. Their ability to output on HDMI & component video simultaneously doesn't mean that much for my use. I would strongly recommend that any potential buyer first do a search under "tivo pixelation" (tiling) and read the posts on the TiVo Community Forum. I had come to think of the Toshiba as the canary in the coal mine regarding signal quality coming out of my Verizon central office. It would have to be tiling horribly on over 50% of the channels before the Sonys, DVRs & Tv, had mild intermittent tiling on any channel. The Series3 has blown away the Toshiba as the superior canary. If your service provider maintains signal within the narrow parameters required by the TiVos, then there may well be no tuning issues at all. Many people with many different cablecards and providers across the country are not so fortunate. There are no good workarounds when your cable company delivers a less than perfect signal, and you need it to be that. OTA tuning with the TiVo is no better or worse than with the Sony. More later.

kc2kl

03-11-08, 11:09 PM

Since the unit has only one tuner, it would be highly unlikely; recording would have to count as on. In the unlikely event you were recording the host channel itself, maybe... but I doubt it.

You even have a recording being made during the afternoon download time?

If you have had recordings scheduled this way for several days, just slew out to a week from now and see if you have all the listings - if you by some miracle do, count yourself very lucky.
Yes, even during the afternoon. We take care of our grandchildren and they have shows on that they would like to watch all during the day. By recording them, we can structure (and limit) their viewing time. We miss the overnight downlod because the station carrying the data is off the air. Thanks for the input. I will just have to experiment.

ragwing

03-12-08, 01:10 PM

Hi Louie,

Do the reset/rescan procedure. It's worth it not to worry about the lockup. And while it does take a couple days to repopulate the guide fully, it doesn't really take much time to do the reset process. The original version (as per WhatHappened's notes a while back) included pulling the cable card and doing a scan, then re-inserting... and I found that this wasn't needed. I was sort of a guinea pig for the abbreviated version. It worked fine for me, and within a day I was back to normal operation, and within ~ 3 days had the whole guide populated. It did take me a little while to reorder the channels in the guide, of course. But that lockup was driving me nuts... and incurring wrath from my wife, which is worse.

Marc

Hi Marc,

Yea, My Wife gets pissed if she misses Lost, lol.

As you suggested I got up the nerve and performed the reset on the spiff page (thanks for posting the page spiff) sans no cable card and scan. I did try to scan with the cable disconnected, but could not find a way to make the DVR rescan channels.

I performed the rest of the procedure to the letter and received a day of guide information when I checked this morning. I will try tonight and see if it locks up while recording.

Since I had no guide information or host channel directly after the reset (yet), I tried seeing if I could get VBI information from digital channels yesterday. Tried CBS 2.1, it was getting VBI data, it looked like it would work. It was receiving one VBI packet per second. After several hours it had not even received the time. So I tried PBS digital channels, same result. By the way the test screen with the color bars (G* factory test), shows it as valid VBI data (1 VBI packet per second) and showed the data as pass.

Each test was done with the The "VBI Search Current Channel" code, and verifying there was no host channel selected in the 753159852 menu, after each new channel was tested.

So I tried 3 analog PBS channels. Right away there was a big difference, receiving at least 4 VBI packets per second. So at least with my HDD550 and Comcast cable in southern NJ, my DVR does not seem to get guide information from the digital channels.:(

Take Care,
Louie

bugmenot55

03-14-08, 11:37 PM

hmm52

03-15-08, 12:21 PM

Anybody in Philadelphia know how i can get guile data from the TVGOS sytem onto my DHG-Hdd250 with Comcast Cable with CableCArd service. If I don't use the CableCard, I can pick up the TVGOS data during the nighttime on Channel 13 (WHYY) , but when I plug in the CableCard, the WHYY that is mapped to channel 12 is the ATSC version which doesn't have the guide data. Anyone here know what channel Comcast maps the pbs analog station to when using a cablecard?

I haven't been with Comcast since 11/06 but I don't think they've changed much since then. The Sunday Inguirer Tv section has channel assignments per area; same for website. But with 5 cablecard devices, I've never seen analogs shift or drop out with cablecard insertion; same with Verizon. I think WHYY analog is Comcast ch12 throughout the whole area. Its digitals are 240,241 & 242 in my location. WTXF (Fox) also provded TVGOS data, through '06 anyway. Seems unlikely to find any digital at such a low channel number.

I would take a moment to check in Setup that you've got the right zip code, or very close to it (geographically). In Channel Editor (Change channel display), you should see somewhere: PBS WHYY cable 12 On or Off. The bulldozer method would be to connect antenna & add in Setup. WHYY analog is a snap to receive compared to their HD (until next year). With FIOS I've needed to maintain antenna. As delivered by Verizon ONT, TVGOS data is missing though closed captioning remains. I assume you're leaving your DVR off long enough to allow download.

bugmenot55

03-15-08, 01:06 PM

. I assume you're leaving your DVR off long enough to allow download.

How long should I leave the DVR off? I left it off overnight 10 hours and still no guide data after I just turned it on right now, I'll leave it off for another few hours but this is pretty bad

hmm52

03-15-08, 01:59 PM

24 hours. The downside to the Sony DVRs is that they're slow to acquire guide data. I don't remember how long it takes just to find host channel. Overnight at most, if there's one to find. Once set up properly, none of this is usually much of an issue. 8 days of TVGOS data should normally fill in by the 3rd or 4th day out.

The question is your Setup. With cablecard inserted, do the channel assignments make sense to you, analog & digital? If they don't look right, I would re do Setup and make sure you've selected correct cable provider [there are alternates for both Verizon & Comcast in this area]. Check this after leaving DVR off overnight. If you don't get any guide data at all after 24 hour period, TVGOS host channel has not been found.

You don't have to go back very far in this thread to find many references to spiff72's link. He has provided a great resource for these DVRs. You'll find in depth information of all kinds there, including all you need to know about host channels.

When I used Comcast, local HDs came through with or without cablecard installed regardless of service package level. Your post suggests that you're getting the same widescreen WHYY on ch 12 or 13 that you do on 240. Is that actually what's happening? (108.1 or whatever without cablecard) I'm stumped.

drhankz

03-15-08, 02:25 PM

hmm52

03-15-08, 07:02 PM

Anybody in Philadelphia know how i can get guile data from the TVGOS sytem onto my DHG-Hdd250 with Comcast Cable with CableCArd service.

I sent you a private message. There's something missing from the equation. It's too tedious to be detective via posts.

MegaToad

03-15-08, 09:27 PM

Its now been ten days. The unit seem to have rebooted it self wile watching tv two days ago. When it came back the clock was one houre behind and the tv listing where a hour off (5pm news was listed in the guid at the 4pm time slot). The next day the guid and time where back to normal and my host channel was now listed as 1:0-4 (it was 0:4-1).

bugmenot55

03-16-08, 01:22 PM

I sent you a private message. There's something missing from the equation. It's too tedious to be detective via posts.

Thanks for the support. I called WHYY and luckily I was able to get in touch with an enginner that even once owned a DHG-Hdd250. basically, I was told that from late last year, Comcast stopped broadcast the analog feed of WHYY on their cable system so that's why I never got any guide data.(he was guessing that this was so they could have more space to add HD channels) He offered me a decent solution which was to plug in a blank RF cable to the "ANT IN" port which allows me to get the analog WHYY feed OTA instead. So now I'm back in business (even though I have to wait another 24 hours to get the guide data, took 8 hours just to get the clock).

Only thing is that once 2009 works out, I guess all of our units become bricks since I can't get TVGOS data over the HD WHYY broadcast, only the analog.

RTK

03-16-08, 01:45 PM

What about TVGOS service for those using a cable card, will this be affected?

drhankz

03-16-08, 01:47 PM

Thanks for the support. I called WHYY and luckily I was able to get in touch with an enginner that even once owned a DHG-Hdd250. basically, I was told that from late last year, Comcast stopped broadcast the analog feed of WHYY on their cable system so that's why I never got any guide data.(he was guessing that this was so they could have more space to add HD channels) He offered me a decent solution which was to plug in a blank RF cable to the "ANT IN" port which allows me to get the analog WHYY feed OTA instead. So now I'm back in business (even though I have to wait another 24 hours to get the guide data, took 8 hours just to get the clock).

Only thing is that once 2009 works out, I guess all of our units become bricks since I can't get TVGOS data over the HD WHYY broadcast, only the analog.

FYI

Under FCC LAW - Comcast is still required to broadcast
the Analog channel. At least until 2009. Somewhere in
this LONG Thread is the FCC document you can print out
and take to Comcast.

drhankz

03-16-08, 01:50 PM

What about TVGOS service for those using a cable card, will this be affected?

In 2009 = I don't think any of us know the answer for sure.

There is a lot of speculations on both sides.

bugmenot55

03-16-08, 02:29 PM

FYI

Under FCC LAW - Comcast is still required to broadcast
the Analog channel. At least until 2009. Somewhere in
this LONG Thread is the FCC document you can print out
and take to Comcast.

Probally, but in Philadelphia, comcast allows every suscriber to recive one free digital cable converter box for people who sitll have older TV's. That's probally why they can get away with not broadcasting any analog channels.

This is the box they gave my mother when they shut off the analog channels.:
http://broadband.motorola.com/business/images/product_DCT700_settop.jpg
The first one is free and they charge $7 for each additional outlet box

bugmenot55

03-16-08, 02:36 PM

In 2009 = I don't think any of us know the answer for sure.

There is a lot of speculations on both sides.

The engineer told me the old TVGOS units end up becoming useless in terms of guide data unless the manufacturer relases a firmware upgrade that allows the ATSC tuner to retrieve their TVGOS data off of the digital broadcast. (WHYY has been broadcasting TVGOS on their digital broadcast since 2006)So as of right now, I'm guessing our DHG-HDD250's become $500 bricks unless Sony releases a upgrade for it.

WhatHappend

03-16-08, 03:19 PM

The engineer told me the old TVGOS units end up becoming useless in terms of guide data unless the manufacturer relases a firmware upgrade that allows the ATSC tuner to retrieve their TVGOS data off of the digital broadcast. (WHYY has been broadcasting TVGOS on their digital broadcast since 2006)So as of right now, I'm guessing our DHG-HDD250's become $500 bricks unless Sony releases a upgrade for it.

Do you read this forum???? I and others have been able to receive guide data from the digital ATSC channels. I even did an experiment with the QAM modulated cable version of the CBS channel and the unit received guide data. So why are these unit bricks in 2009??? Do you work for TIVO??? To me it looks like the new firmware would resolve some issues the unit has in detecting the digital channel is a valid host and sticking with it. 10 days is the current record but when all the analog channels are removed this may not be an issue. And the time sets in minutes on the CBS digital channel so manual recordings should be no issue.

sivartk

03-16-08, 03:19 PM

These become far from a 'brick' as I still need an HD tuner for my projector. Even if the guide goes away, it becomes an HDTV tuner with the ability to pause live TV. Better than any converter you'll get with your $40 coupon :)

Ray1938

03-16-08, 03:45 PM

So as of right now, I'm guessing our DHG-HDD250's become $500 bricks unless Sony releases a upgrade for it.

Gemstar not Sony is responsible for any guide related upgrades. Sony's only involvement was to incorporate Gemstar devices into their DVRs.

Ray

bugmenot55

03-16-08, 03:47 PM

Do you read this forum???? I and others have been able to receive guide data from the digital ATSC channels. I even did an experiment with the QAM modulated cable version of the CBS channel and the unit received guide data. So why are these unit bricks in 2009??? Do you work for TIVO??? To me it looks like the new firmware would resolve some issues the unit has in detecting the digital channel is a valid host and sticking with it. 10 days is the current record but when all the analog channels are removed this may not be an issue. And the time sets in minutes on the CBS digital channel so manual recordings should be no issue.

Hmm, if this is true, how come the WHYY digital channel here doesn't give off any guide data, only the analog version. Or is it only CBS digital stations that can do this? Here CBS 3 KYW on both digital and analog channels don't give off TVGOS data though. Anyone else here besides you picking up TVGOS data on a digital channel that isn't in your market

BTW I don't work for Tivo. I don't like it since Tivo makes you pay a monthly fee just for the guide in addition to making you buy the DVR

hmm52

03-16-08, 06:49 PM

FYI

Under FCC LAW - Comcast is still required to broadcast
the Analog channel. At least until 2009. Somewhere in
this LONG Thread is the FCC document you can print out
and take to Comcast.

If cable providers were required to deliver local analog broadcasts exactly in their original form, I might have some leverage with Verizon over their TVGOS stripped away version. I didn't get very far when I pursued this with them. They consider themselves exempt from quite a bit anyway.

Nevertheless Philadelphia must have become Backwater, USA in the eyes of the FCC . The Verizon home office has really ticked off a load of people since November when they changed their unencrypted digital signals for local broadcasters. Many QAM receivers can't tune them including my 3 Sony tuners, a Toshba Tv and a TiVo S3. An out of use LG receiver will - local HDs at 71.143, 72.867, etc.; sub channels at 71.31 etc. Pretty ugly. Verizon is clearly skirting the law. Their response since Nov.: "We are aware of the problem and are working on a solution".

bugmenot55------ Your scenario still makes no sense to me. If you received TVGOS data with only cable feed before cablecard insertion, you should get it the same way afterwards - unless you simultaneously moved location. One served by fiber optic cable?

8 hours is much too long for time to appear. In nearly 2 1/2 years, I've never seen it take more than 15 minutes, usually less than 5. Hook up a real antenna and make sure ch12's picture is halfway decent & closed captioning works on it. If you have terrible reception, download's not going to succeed. Guide data won't be available until after midnight today anyway.

kwg

03-16-08, 07:09 PM

I have highlighted the 3 reported 'digital TVGOS' capable CBS O&O stations below.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/31/utility/main517034.shtml
CBS Owned And Operated Stations:
• California - Los Angeles KCBS
• California - San Francisco KPIX
• California - Sacramento KOVR
• Colorado - Denver KCNC
• Florida - Miami WFOR
• Illinois - Chicago WBBM
• Maryland - Baltimore WJZ
• Massachusetts - Boston WBZ
• Michigan - Detroit WWJ/WKBD
• Minnesota - Minneapolis WCCO
• New York - New York WCBS
• Pennsylvania - Philadelphia KYW
• Pennsylvania - Pittsburgh KDKA
• Texas - Austin KEYE
• Texas - Dallas KTVT
• Utah - Salt Lake City KUTV

bugmenot55's KYW-TV is the first report of an O&O without digital TVGOS.

7 non-O&O stations have been reported as lacking digital TVGOS.
KHOU-TV
KPHO
WSPA-TV
WBTV
KTHV
KOTV
WDJT

I have contacted my local CBS station (KHOU Houston) both directly in email and via the website. No reply.

WhatHappend

03-17-08, 01:31 AM

Hmm, if this is true, how come the WHYY digital channel here doesn't give off any guide data, only the analog version.

Could you do some diagnostics then we can answer you? If you read our posts you will wee what diagnostic screens to look at.

You should have no issue in your market if you can receive OTA ATSC with only a coax cable, an indoor antenna should receive the OTA ATSC signal after the cut off and work around any issue your cable company is causing. Another thing you don't seem to realize is that no cable company modulates a ATSC signal over their system, they use QAM256 modulation because it is more efficient and they have direct cable connection (no fading or ghosting to worry about). So all cable companies have to convert the OTA ATSC to QAM256 modulation. Some cable companies decompress the MPEG2 signal that the ATSC channel contains and re-compress a HD-lite version of the MPEG2 channel to save bandwidth. I am guessing that your cable company is compressing the MPEG2 signal and disturbing the Gemstar guide data. How many channels are on the cable companies QAM256 channel with your WHYY ? Have you looked? It is a pain, you go to diagnostics on every digital channel and record the frequency they are on. OTA channels are usually grouped together. I have Mediacom and they are only putting two OTA HD channels per QAM256 channel so the guide information is not disturbed.

AarDee

03-17-08, 09:31 AM

• Massachusetts - Boston WBZ [digital] seems to be broadcasting VBI data, at least it passes the G* test. I haven't tried to actually get the Gemstar data on this channel.

kwg

03-17-08, 10:06 AM

bugmenot55
Hmm, if this is true, how come the WHYY digital channel here
doesn't give off any guide data, only the analog version.

WhatHappend
Could you do some diagnostics then we can answer you?

Not to butt-in....WHYY is a PBS station.

WhatHappend
I am guessing that your cable company is compressing the
MPEG2 signal and disturbing the Gemstar guide data.

Good point! When testing CBS digital TVGOS, antenna is preferred over cable.

schmith

03-17-08, 11:45 AM

WhatHappend

03-17-08, 12:42 PM

I ran an experiment. I live in Long Island, and I am strictly OTA. I was able to filter out most of the television broadcast band using a high-pass filter (I work in a microwave test lab), but was able to keep WCBS digital (they are on UHF Channel 56). This guarenteed that there was no analog PBS available to the unit. I did a full channel scan and set-up (per "WhatHappened's" procedure), and did a "Force Host" and turned the unit for over two days. No luck. I did not recieve any guide data, but I did get the clock as soon as I did the "Factory G-test". This tells me that the station is passing VBI data, but no TVGOS data yet. I will try this again in a few months. Hopefully, WCBS-DT here in NYC does start transmitting TVGOS data soon.

Did you goto the TVGOS diagnostic screens after doing the "Factory G-test"? If you are there during a download period you can watch the VBI reception screen count the different packet types comming in. The ATSC slicer screen will also show the packets being decoded. If you are not there during a TVGOS download period you will see the dummy packet count increasing.

schmith

03-17-08, 04:55 PM

Did you goto the TVGOS diagnostic screens after doing the "Factory G-test"? If you are there during a download period you can watch the VBI reception screen count the different packet types comming in. The ATSC slicer screen will also show the packets being decoded. If you are not there during a TVGOS download period you will see the dummy packet count increasing.

How do you get to those diagnostic screens?

hmm52

03-17-08, 05:59 PM

You should have no issue in your market if you can receive OTA ATSC with only a coax cable, an indoor antenna should receive the OTA ATSC signal after the cut off and work around any issue your cable company is causing.

The channel bugmenot55 referred to is WHYY analog ch 12 - NTSC tuner until next year when their primary digital will be back there. Their HD has been a bite to tune for those north & east of Phila. during the last 2 years. The Northeast corridor is crowded with broadcasters so overlapping signals are a real issue. I think bugmenot55 must have left out a shift in time or location in his scenario. What else would explain loss of host channel with just cable card installation, no other change? Analog signals bypass QAM tuners altogether, correct? I found out that Phila. Comcast has in fact strung a lot of fiber optic residentially since I left them. One free converter per household? kind of cheap.

Not everybody will be OK next year with antenna currently in use for digital reception. For many years I've used a 4way bowtie outside at ground level. Except for WHYY, none of the digitals 10-38 miles away within 33 degrees of each other has been difficult. WPVI (ABC) is moving back to low VHF, ch 6, next year - one of few major market broadcasters to do so. 37 in all markets nationwide though. I seriously doubt my antenna or location will be adequate. May not be so great for ch12 either. If nothing else, antenna is needed for times when Toshiba Tv or TiVo S3 can't manage VZ's signal. The Sonys' tuners are much, much more tolerant.

With FIOS I have assumed that there is very little compression loss and that Gemstar data wouldn't be an issue when finally available in the stream. Are my assumptions incorrect? VZ doesn't pair more than 2 HD's together on any frequency, currently. All local HDs are paired. Don't know about Comcast.

PhilB

03-17-08, 07:32 PM

I have contacted my local CBS station (KHOU Houston) both directly in email and via the website. No reply.

I called KHOU engineering today. They will be carrying the TVGOS data on their ATSC channel but it probably won't be until after all the O&O get it up and runnning.

-phil

WhatHappend

03-17-08, 09:15 PM

How do you get to those diagnostic screens?
The first post as a link to the FAQ site with all the required information.

WhatHappend

03-17-08, 09:24 PM

What else would explain loss of host channel with just cable card installation, no other change? Analog signals bypass QAM tuners altogether, correct?
If you review earlier posts this is common. The cable card tune digital version of all the analog channels (the cable compaines were preparing for a ADS "All Digital Simulcast" conversion). Most cables compaines left one analog channel "97" mapped for the TVGOS customers.

His immediate solution would be to put a splitter on the cable coax and feed then ANT input to pickup the analog channel 12 to get the guide data.

If he wanted to do any work at finding a solution he would tune to the channel 12 and look at the dignostic information and see if it is digital or analog when the cable card is inserted. Then do the test without the cable card and I am sure he would find the analog channel is being digitized.

I thought he was tunning a ATSC OTA CBS station. I don't know if Gemstar has the digital guide working on any PBS station.

hmm52

03-17-08, 11:17 PM

If you review earlier posts this is common. The cable card tune digital version of all the analog channels (the cable compaines were preparing for a ADS "All Digital Simulcast" conversion).

I'm out of touch with what's been going on. That happens when one only checks in on a forum when needed.

Upon leaving Comcast 11/06, host channel on one 250 was 1:0-9 (Fox); and 0:0-12 (PBS) on the other 250. Analog locals didn't change with cablecard even when most channels were digital. Ch 97 did exist then and was a host channel at one point. I never disconnected antenna after earliest days using analog cable and OTA HD. Through PM I advised bugmenot55 to force new host seeking by redoing setup with nearby zipcode (one known to have same channel mapping) if difficulty persisted with antenna installed - easy way.This should work though maybe not necessary. I haven't heard back.

You can probably answer a question that's bugged me for quite awhile. Verizon digitizes the local analogs then converts them back to analog in the ONT, I assume; must be there. These channels have fully functional closed captioning. If VZ chose to do so, would it not also be easy for them to deliver Gemstar data in the same way? (unless it's not digitized analogs that are being converted) - a little late for the question

WhatHappend

03-17-08, 11:45 PM

You can probably answer a question that's bugged me for quite awhile. Verizon digitizes the local analogs then converts them back to analog in the ONT, I assume; must be there. These channels have fully functional closed captioning. If VZ chose to do so, would it not also be easy for them to deliver Gemstar data in the same way? (unless it's not digitized analogs that are being converted) - a little late for the question

It would not be easy for them. I would require a new MPEG encoders and decoders.

When analog channels are digitized that means converted to MPEG video compression and all VBI is lost. To account for this the CC information is decoded and passed separately in the encoded stream (no longer in the VBI form). The Gemstar data would have to be decoded and then passed in the digital steam and then the Gemstar data would have to be added at the MPEG to analog conversion stage. Since the Gemstar format is patented only a Gemstar licensed device could decode and encode the TVGOS data stream.

BTW - everyone that keeps thinking that in 2009 the cable provided analog channels will contain Gemstar data is just about certainly wrong. After 2009 the stations will not source the analog streams and the cable companies are going to have to convert the MPEG streams to a analog signal for old TVs. The stream will not have the analog gemstar VBI signal but will have a regenerated CC VBI signal.

hmm52

03-18-08, 12:11 AM

Thanks for your thorough answer. I wouldn't have made a hedge with a Series3 in January if I had expectations for any kind of analog delivery of guide data next February. Great news that it will be acquired digitally.

bugmenot55

03-18-08, 12:49 AM

to answer hmm52, yes I tried what you said, but Comcast doesn't broadcast on chan 97 or any other channel, I left the DVR off for two days with the cable plugged in and I never got any TVGOS data, any clock settings or anything. I knew about the spiffspace site beforehand and I ran all the diagnostic tests etc. Only way I am able to get guide data is to plug in rabbit ears into the "ANT IN" port and have the guide fetch data from WHYY OTA. Other than the clock being an hour off (assumily because WHYY forgot to set it for DST) I'm up and running 100%.

hmm52

03-18-08, 08:51 AM

kwg

03-18-08, 10:12 AM

I called KHOU engineering today.
They will be carrying the TVGOS data on their ATSC channel but it probably won't be until after all the O&O get it up and runnning.

Thank you Phil!

Yeah, I've been assuming that the shorter O&O affiliate list would be first for the various reasons.

bugmenot55

03-18-08, 10:14 AM

When I advised you to connect antenna and add to setup, connection to ANT IN was implied. Clocks changed at correct time on my units last week. I didn't notice the guide "jog" that frank70 mentioned but the DVRs might not have been in use then.

I got the correct time while leaving it off last night so it's working A-OK now. One final question though, I notice that when I switch channels, on the info pane, the TV says "NO listing" where it should have show info for about 30 seconds after switching to the channel before it loads the show info and time period. Is this normal or is the unit just slow loading guide data into the info pane

But overall, as long as the guide holds up, im in love with the unit, now I can record in HD and best of all, no MONTHLY FEES!. Now only if Comcast can get my HBO working on my CableCard I'm all set (lol)

kwg

03-18-08, 10:23 AM

A non-O&O CBS affiliate transmitting digital TVGOS.

Reno KTVN
Owner Sarkes Tarzian, Inc.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13404427&postcount=1941

TV Guide On Screen - post your info here!
lfox
I can confirm that the CBS station in Reno is sending TVGOS data on both its analog and digital signal. It was not mandatory that CBS affiliates sign up to distribute the TVGOS data so not all cities may go along. Also each station would set its own time table to install the equipment if they signed up. Reno has been up for months.

riffjim4069

03-18-08, 11:10 AM

Heading down to Dallas area with my HDD500 in a couple weeks and will finally be getting FiOS TV. It doesn't look like FiOS is passing TVGOS, but I should have an OTA antenna in place. I have been OTA only, but I researched several threads, have firmware 1.2.13, and the 161-6 elctrical modification so I don't anticipate any difficulty with FiOS/CableCard in NE Texas. Anyway, I am correct that FiOS does not pass VBI to the Sony?

hmm52

03-18-08, 12:24 PM

[QUOTE=bugmenot55;13407466] One final question though, I notice that when I switch channels, on the info pane, the TV says "NO listing"... /QUOTE]

It's definitely worthwhile to print out spiff72's resource guide. Same for Operation Manual. He has provided 2 links for manual in 1st FAQ, line 1.1.1. In "Using the SETUP Service" section of manual are instructions on Change Channel Display - to check & change as necessary or desired the channels in guide. Main channel editor is in Preferences menu, not in guide. As previously stated, listings take some time to fill in.

For OTA users not sure of their antenna's abilities next February, there is a discussion link here http://www.hightv.de/showthread.php?t=26387 I have no idea why it's on a German site but it's not in Deutsch.

Near the top of this page, WhatHappend gave a very thorough explanation as to why Verizon doesn't have Gemstar data in its analog signals. FIOS has worked great with my Sony Tv and DVRs; occasionally not so well with 2 other cablecard devices (Toshiba & TiVo).

bugmenot55

03-18-08, 01:40 PM

[QUOTE=bugmenot55;13407466] One final question though, I notice that when I switch channels, on the info pane, the TV says "NO listing"... /QUOTE]

It's definitely worthwhile to print out spiff72's resource guide. Same for Operation Manual. He has provided 2 links for manual in 1st FAQ, line 1.1.1. In "Using the SETUP Service" section of manual are instructions on Change Channel Display - to check & change as necessary or desired the channels in guide. Main channel editor is in Preferences menu, not in guide. As previously stated, listings take some time to fill in.

Thanks again, I tried ur suggestion and moved the channels I watch to the top of the channel list in the guide and now the listings load immediately. Thanks and I guess you were right, the guide takes 3 days left off overnight to load completly, now I guess it's filled since now I get ads for American Express Blue and American Idol on the left side. Still I'll take small ads over paying $13 a month extra to Comcast or Tivo anyday:)

hmm52

03-18-08, 03:42 PM

[QUOTE=hmm52;13408559]Thanks again

You're welcome, but I think it's better that you direct your questions through PM, or phone # I gave you Sunday, as this thread is mostly for topics not covered by guide/manuals mentioned (not much left out). You can also search the thread on any subject. These DVRs are highly configurable. Enjoy it.

EdwinC

03-18-08, 08:02 PM

WhatHappend

03-18-08, 10:14 PM

I recently moved to an Apartment complex that offers free cable, so set up my DHG250 to auto scan using cable and now I don't have any TVGOS info. It has been 5 days since I ran the scan and still no Guide. Help! I live in Anaheim, CA and the cable service is by Time Warner formerly Adelphia Cable. Should I just abandon cable and go to OTA? Prior to the move my unit was working fine with a OTA Antenna. Suggestions anyone? By the way the channel listing that shows on the cable scan is weird, i.e. channel 94.105 etc. Is the TVGOS data being transmitted through Time Warner?? Another question is will my unit work after Feb 2009? I have seen post here that seem to suggest that TVGOS data is being transmitted and received via digital channels. I am confused! What are the alternatives for me to get a DVR that is capable of recording in HD without paying any subscription fees, and will work after the swich over on Feb 2009.

Thank you in advance for any help!

Why abandon cable??? Just hook up an antenna to get the guide information. You did realize that your box had two inputs ant/cable. The TVGOS information transmitted over the air will be for all the known cable systems and over the air channels.

People, People, People, please quit asking if your unit will work after 2009. What answer are you expecting??? IT IS GETTING VERY ANNOYING..... (wait, wait my crystal ball says that your HDD is going to fail Dec 2008, and Gemstar will go bankrupt Nov 2008, and the FCC is going to abandon OTA TV and everyone has to buy satellite dishes.....)

Regarding your final question, your choices for free HD PVR, have you read this form? Dish network has an OTA only TVGOS tuner/PVR coming out TR-50. Why, Why can’t you read the form (it has been discussed alot)?
CES2008 link (http://ces.cnet.com/8301-1_1-9840910-67.html)

Ray1938

03-19-08, 02:36 AM

I recently moved to an Apartment complex that offers free cable, so set up my DHG250 to auto scan using cable and now I don't have any TVGOS info. It has been 5 days since I ran the scan and still no Guide. Help! I live in Anaheim, CA and the cable service is by Time Warner formerly Adelphia Cable. Should I just abandon cable and go to OTA? Prior to the move my unit was working fine with a OTA Antenna. Suggestions anyone? By the way the channel listing that shows on the cable scan is weird, i.e. channel 94.105 etc. Is the TVGOS data being transmitted through Time Warner?? Another question is will my unit work after Feb 2009? I have seen post here that seem to suggest that TVGOS data is being transmitted and received via digital channels. I am confused! What are the alternatives for me to get a DVR that is capable of recording in HD without paying any subscription fees, and will work after the swich over on Feb 2009.

Thank you in advance for any help!
The guide is currently transmitted by pbs channel 28, which is TW cable channel 3 in Los Angeles. That channel failed the VBI test. However, subsequently I found that TW also outputs channel 28 on a high numbered channel. I suggest you find that channel and perform a VBI test. If it passes, you can tune to that channel before putting the unit in standby.
HD channels have weird numbers, which you can edit into the guide. However, I suggest you call TW since they may give you a free card, and charge you a nominal fee to install it. After it is installed, the HD channel numbers are in the 400's.
Both of my units currently get the guide OTA.
Ray

REWAT

03-19-08, 11:08 AM

Why abandon cable??? Just hook up an antenna to get the guide information. You did realize that your box had two inputs ant/cable. The TVGOS information transmitted over the air will be for all the known cable systems and over the air channels.

People, People, People, please quit asking if your unit will work after 2009. What answer are you expecting??? IT IS GETTING VERY ANNOYING..... (wait, wait my crystal ball says that your HDD is going to fail Dec 2008, and Gemstar will go bankrupt Nov 2008, and the FCC is going to abandon OTA TV and everyone has to buy satellite dishes.....)

Regarding your final question, your choices for free HD PVR, have you read this form? Dish network has an OTA only TVGOS tuner/PVR coming out TR-50. Why, Why can’t you read the form (it has been discussed alot)?
CES2008 link (http://ces.cnet.com/8301-1_1-9840910-67.html)

I agree that the question can get annoying. But that doesn't change the fact that it has yet to be answered with certainty. After a front-panel 'warm' reset, my TVGOS SW version reverted back to the 'original' version of 8.1.42 after a nights download it was updated to a newer (but not newest) version of 8.5.xx (I can't recall the last number). The next night download provided the final version of 8.6.xx (I think it's 44 but can't remember).

All of these required an Analog (or Analogue if you're in Toronto ;)) channel. This would be true for converting to the new Digital version of the SW. Once the analog stations disapear, there doesn't appear to be any way to restore newer versions of the TVGOS SW.

But wait is there????

Maybe it's just the hacker in me, but I've been experimenting with VCR recordings of my local host channel (PBS analog). I was able to tape a few minutes of the broadcast and...

Before I go any further here's my setup.

1. Strictly over the air (no cable).
2. VCR recorder with NTSC tuner and DVD player.
3. Composite to RF converter with a 3/4 channel switch (I chose channel 4).
4. Most importantly Sony hdd250

You may not need a composite to RF converter if your VCR already has an RF output with a 3/4 channel switch.

Since I don't use cable, I plugged in the RF cable to the cable input of the HDD250 and auto scanned in the new channel (only channel 4 was found). I turned on the VCR and tuned the HDD250 to cable channel 4. While I was playing the recorded version of the host station, I performed a G* test for VBI data.

Valid packets started coming through and the VBI test indicator affirmed a valid test. Furthermore, after 30 seconds or so the time on the HDD250 was changed from the current time to the time of the recording.

I aborted the test, stopped the recording and changed the channel on VCR to the host channel (pbs analog, but still on cable channel 4 for HDD250). Performed another VBI test. Similar results but the time changed back from the recorded time to the correct current time.

Over the next few weeks I intend to record the host channel durring the assigned download times to see if I can get things like guide data and SW updates (I know a lot of work for something that may not be necessary, but it's cool and I can't help myself).

At a minimum this appears to be a simple way of reseting your clock (rather than performing a reset at midnight). It appears to change the date as well but I didn't look closely enough to verify that.

Rammitinski

03-19-08, 12:55 PM

Odd.

My Sony switched over to getting it's data from CBS analog a few months back. I happened to move it to another TV the other day, and now it's back to getting it from PBS. So PBS is obviously still sending it out here.

Strange, considering it's still being fed by the same outdoor antenna.

avnstf

03-19-08, 04:42 PM

3. Composite to RF converter with a 3/4 channel switch (I chose channel 4).

Since I don't use cable, I plugged in the RF cable to the cable input of the HDD250 and auto scanned in the new channel (only channel 4 was found). I turned on the VCR and tuned the HDD250 to cable channel 4. While I was playing the recorded version of the host station, I performed a G* test for VBI data.

Valid packets started coming through and the VBI test indicator affirmed a valid test. Furthermore, after 30 seconds or so the time on the HDD250 was changed from the current time to the time of the recording.

...have to admit I'm shocked this works...I thought that the VCR would just record AV from your VCR tuner, and not anything else. So what is it that the VCR records that the Sony would recognize at the cable input?

puzzling

of course, I guess the same thng happens whenever you play back from a VCR via the rf pass-through

REWAT

03-19-08, 04:56 PM

...have to admit I'm shocked this works...I thought that the VCR would just record AV from your VCR tuner, and not anything else. So what is it that the VCR records that the Sony would recognize at the cable input?

puzzling

It's apparent that a VCR recording of a NTSC broadcast includes some VBI data because you can turn on the 'closed-caption' feature while viewing the recording and the text shows up on your TV set.

Evidently the VCR recorder does not selectively record the vertical-blank interval (at least not my JVC VCR). The entire VBI seems to be preserved in the recording (which presumably includes the TVGOS data).

I did try this same test with a DVD recording of the 'host' channel. This didn't produce the desired results. I did get CC data but when I ran the G* factory test it failed. This suggests that since the recording ends up in a digital format, the closed-captioning data is intercepted and saved but none of the rest of the data in the VBI is preserved.

This is purely conjecture on my part, but this seems to follow the observations.

EdwinC

03-19-08, 05:09 PM

The guide is currently transmitted by pbs channel 28, which is TW cable channel 3 in Los Angeles. That channel failed the VBI test. However, subsequently I found that TW also outputs channel 28 on a high numbered channel. I suggest you find that channel and perform a VBI test. If it passes, you can tune to that channel before putting the unit in standby.
HD channels have weird numbers, which you can edit into the guide. However, I suggest you call TW since they may give you a free card, and charge you a nominal fee to install it. After it is installed, the HD channel numbers are in the 400's.
Both of my units currently get the guide OTA.
Ray
Thanks Ray, Pardon me for being ignorant, but if you are getting your TVGOS via OTA how do you sync this with the cable channels? I was going to hook up to OTA to get the right time, and the try doing manual recordings, but are you saying that I can "map" the TVGOS to the right cable channel using the channel editor? I also noticed previous recordings done through OTA seem clearer than the "live cable feed", is this just my imagination or is OTA better. If this is the case, I might as well go OTA for everything, I just have to shell out $85.00 to get my Antenna from my old house and put it up in the apartment complex, which has a lot of restrictions, i.e. Antenna should not be attached to the structure, etc. etc. Thanks Again!

WhatHappend

03-19-08, 05:26 PM

Thanks Ray, Pardon me for being ignorant, but if you are getting your TVGOS via OTA how do you sync this with the cable channels?
I told you in the last post that the TVGOS stream is independent of the method it is sent via (OTA/CABLE). From OTA antenna you can get all the local Cable channel lineups sent over the TVGOS information stream. No mapping is required for 90% of the channels (some times cable companies add new channels then you just map them).

dlhoppe

03-19-08, 07:39 PM

Are there any updates on the prospect of using an STB to convert an ATSC host channel to analog for feeding TVGOS to the DHG-HDD units? It was talked about a while back and I just did a search to no avail. Anyone have any news on this subject?

I believe the last we heard was that there were no converters available yet that preserves the TVGOS data during the D/A conversion process. Is that right?

By the way, thanks to all of you guys for sharing the info here. I'm optimistic we'll have some kind of solution for the analog cut-off.

Thanks,
Dave

Ray1938

03-19-08, 09:51 PM

Thanks Ray, Pardon me for being ignorant, but if you are getting your TVGOS via OTA how do you sync this with the cable channels? I was going to hook up to OTA to get the right time, and the try doing manual recordings, but are you saying that I can "map" the TVGOS to the right cable channel using the channel editor? I also noticed previous recordings done through OTA seem clearer than the "live cable feed", is this just my imagination or is OTA better. If this is the case, I might as well go OTA for everything, I just have to shell out $85.00 to get my Antenna from my old house and put it up in the apartment complex, which has a lot of restrictions, i.e. Antenna should not be attached to the structure, etc. etc. Thanks Again!
You get both cable and ota listings either by cable or ota but you have to specify your cable service in the setup to see them. I haven't noticed any difference between cable and ota on HD programs. I have both listed in my guide in case the cable goes down. I subscribe to cable since not all cable channels are available ota. You probably didn't need to move your antenna since a small indoor uhf device is probably ok.
Ray

dlhoppe

03-20-08, 08:42 AM

WhatHappend

03-20-08, 11:00 AM

Yes, I've been following this thread for quite some time. I've read that after a reboot, these units will revert back to the Gemstar version that came with the factory firmware (analog operation only). In this scenario, the only way they can get back to the downloadable version that enables TVGOS data reception from ATSC broadcasts is via analog VBI carrying the newer Gemstar software version. As I understand it, a reboot without analog broadcasted Gemstar updates will render the TVGOS in these units unusable.

Maybe I should have stated the point of my question more clearly. If we're not able to get a firmware update to solve the problem of rebooting after the analog shutdown, will we be able to use a converter box as an alternative?

So, my question still stands. Does anyone know of any successful experiments using a converter box to feed the DHG units from an ATSC source?

Thanks,
Dave

That part is not true and only speculation. When my unit reverted to a real old version of TVGOS it still read the ATSC and even updated to the latest 8.06.44 version from a ATSC channel. Now the unit is far from perfect while using a digital channels for G* information. For one thing if you enter the Diagnostic screen after a G* factory test the VBI channel will be a strange number as well as the clock set channel. Those are probably the bugs that G* has fixed in the newest yet to be released version of guide software. But the basics of guide download and G* software loading appears to function. This would be expected since the G* software on these units has had the ATSC slicer diag screen from the beginning.

And also your understanding of REBOOT is wrong. You would have to go into a special mode to wipe out the Software back to factory load. Power removal or front panel reset don't change G* software.

dlhoppe

03-20-08, 11:17 AM

Thanks for taking the time to "straightening me out" on that. Excellent synopsis!

REWAT

03-20-08, 11:30 AM

My previous tests on what I like to call my 'virtual host-channel' were predicated on the fact that a host channel has already been established. This test only verified clock changes. The clock could be skewed to a different time based on a VCR recording.

This test was repeated after a 'cold' boot of the Sony hdd250. This removed all channel listings and lineup data (as expected). The 753159258 diagnosic menu also indacted that no host channel was designated. I also removed my antenna so as not to allow the system to acquire the 'true' host channel.

The G* factor test was performed on the 'virtual' host channel and passed. However, since no host channel was present, the clock never got updated. I tried to force the 'host-channel' throught the 147896325 diagnostic code. Typically this takes about 5 minutes to complete. I left it on for over 10 minutes and it never completed. I aborted the diagnostic menu and shut off the Sony (hoping this would allow it to aquire my 'virtual' host. After about 30 minutes of down time the clock was still reading as --:-- and no host channel was acquired.

It seems that the proper acquisition of a host channel is essential to uploading data to the Sony. It's not looking as good as I had hoped. I will perform some further tests to try to gather more info.

Rammitinski

03-20-08, 05:00 PM

Maybe I should have stated the point of my question more clearly. If we're not able to get a firmware update to solve the problem of rebooting after the analog shutdown, will we be able to use a converter box as an alternative?Even though the Echostar ATSC tuner itself will be only be SD (as all the CECB boxes will), it's being said that it will convert the digital TVGOS data to analog through the RF, and will keep all the old guides usable. Whether that actually turns out to be true or not, we won't know for a few months, but we're all waiting.

Wirefox

03-22-08, 03:00 PM

This may have been discussed before, but, I had Bones and Justice red dotted to record and it disappeared. Is this a broadcast flag, TVGOS, or Sony issue?

fox

I had this same exact issue with the Scientific Atlanta Cablecard and DHG-HDD250. Comcast blamed Sony and vice versa. I tried updating the firmware to v1.2.13 to no avail.

You must have the copy authorization in order to record the decrypted streams. Whatever I tried or Comcast tried as far as "hitting" the card could not fix this menu option: Preferences > System > CableCARD > SA CableCARD CP Screen > Auth Status : Waiting for CP Auth

It was a Scientific Atlanta problem. As soon as we replaced the newer PKM800 model card with the older PKM600 model, I was good to go. Now I have Auth Status: CP Auth Received

Forget Tivo. This Sony DVR rocks. Many Thanks for the excellent input from this forum and SpiffSpace!

WFX

The Alexandria, VA TVGOS VBI channel is 92 WETA btw.

teeitup

03-24-08, 01:24 AM

I called KHOU engineering today. They will be carrying the TVGOS data on their ATSC channel but it probably won't be until after all the O&O get it up and runnning.

-phil

For anyone in the Seattle area, I contacted the local CBS affiliate (KIRO) and asked if TVGOS data is being sent yet over the ATSC channel (7.1). Their response was not yet, but prior to analog cutoff.

EdwinC

03-25-08, 01:30 PM

You get both cable and ota listings either by cable or ota but you have to specify your cable service in the setup to see them. I haven't noticed any difference between cable and ota on HD programs. I have both listed in my guide in case the cable goes down. I subscribe to cable since not all cable channels are available ota. You probably didn't need to move your antenna since a small indoor uhf device is probably ok.
Ray

I did what you suggested and hooked up an indoor antenna to my dhg 250, the guide did load, unfortunately the HD channels was not showing on the cable line up, I had to use the channel editor to re-direct/map the HD channel i.e. 94.503 to the analog cable listing, l then moved this up the channel display. Now I can use the guide to set recordings again. Thank you and thank you Sony for having the fore sight of redirecting channels, otherwise this would not have been possible. :):)

Ray1938

03-25-08, 02:53 PM

I did what you suggested and hooked up an indoor antenna to my dhg 250, the guide did load, unfortunately the HD channels was not showing on the cable line up, I had to use the channel editor to re-direct/map the HD channel i.e. 94.503 to the analog cable listing, l then moved this up the channel display. Now I can use the guide to set recordings again. Thank you and thank you Sony for having the fore sight of redirecting channels, otherwise this would not have been possible. :):)

The listing should included HD channels with correct channel numbers if a cable card is installed. Without that card, channel numbers must be edited in, as you did. Perhaps you chose the wrong cable company option in setup. I suggest you revisit that setup. Also, I suggest investigate the cost of a cable card. According to recent call with TW, cost is only $1.75 per month and you can install it yourself. In my area, without that card you can't get any of the cable channels only OTA.

Ray

dspadoni

03-25-08, 03:01 PM

I had this same exact issue with the Scientific Atlanta Cablecard and DHG-HDD250. Comcast blamed Sony and vice versa. I tried updating the firmware to v1.2.13 to no avail.

You must have the copy authorization in order to record the decrypted streams. Whatever I tried or Comcast tried as far as "hitting" the card could not fix this menu option: Preferences > System > CableCARD > SA CableCARD CP Screen > Auth Status : Waiting for CP Auth

It was a Scientific Atlanta problem. As soon as we replaced the newer PKM800 model card with the older PKM600 model, I was good to go. Now I have Auth Status: CP Auth Received

Forget Tivo. This Sony DVR rocks. Many Thanks for the excellent input from this forum and SpiffSpace!

WFX

The Alexandria, VA TVGOS VBI channel is 92 WETA btw.

Interesting and Odd: I had the exact opposite experience with the SA cards (although I got the same song & dance of Comcast & Sony blaming each other). With the original S-card (blue), I couldn't get all subscribed channels and got the "not authorized to record" problem; tried several S-cards - no go. Switched to the new M-card (green) and all problems went away. Go figure.

giomania

03-30-08, 03:06 PM

colofan

03-30-08, 03:43 PM

frank70

03-30-08, 07:13 PM

I lost guide data a while back and since I really wanted to go OTA anyway I tried to change. It has been three days and I don't even have a clock running.

I went over to spiffspace and read through the FAQ again but nothing about forcing it to do a channel surf.....Any new information on being able to do this?Assuming you know your OTA host channel, see section 2.2.2 under "VBI Search Current Channel". It worked fine for me. Otherwise, the more radical method in "TV Guide" - "Reset to Factory Defaults" in 1.2.16 can be used (caution - NOT "Reset Factory Default" at the top level of this service menu, which will really REALLY wipe things), which will channel surf, but it seems to take much longer than the method in 2.2.2 to latch onto the host channel. Using the 2.2.2 method, I believe I had the clock back within the hour and a download that night.

toy4two2

03-30-08, 07:28 PM

spiff72

03-30-08, 07:40 PM

Hey guys, I was reading reviews on this unit on Amazon because I am thinking of returning my TIVO HD for it (because TIVO's QAM recording is crippled). I came across this, is there any truth this is why SONY discontinued this unit, does it not obey Copy Never tags, if so, I'm definetly getting one, TIVO obeys that and I don't see any hacks around it like the original TIVO hacking dream machine S1s:

5.0 out of 5 stars Greatest HD DVR can be found!, February 17, 2006
By Home Theater Reviewer - See all my reviews
Sony just discontinued these units afraid of going to court for 'encouraging' HiDef recordings of broadcast programmings.

I have seen the Sony refuse to record a program on a Premium channel - but I think it was a glitch with my cable system. I don't think the statement about not obeying copy never tags is accurate.

Ray1938

03-30-08, 09:42 PM

Hey guys, I was reading reviews on this unit on Amazon because I am thinking of returning my TIVO HD for it (because TIVO's QAM recording is crippled). I came across this, is there any truth this is why SONY discontinued this unit, does it not obey Copy Never tags, if so, I'm definetly getting one, TIVO obeys that and I don't see any hacks around it like the original TIVO hacking dream machine S1s:

5.0 out of 5 stars Greatest HD DVR can be found!, February 17, 2006
By Home Theater Reviewer - See all my reviews
Sony just discontinued these units afraid of going to court for 'encouraging' HiDef recordings of broadcast programmings.

Recording HDTV is the primary use of this recorder and I've recorded HBO and Showtime movies but mostly TV shows.
However, I also own a Toshiba non-hd DVR with DVD burner, and it will only record HBO and Showtime movies to the hard drive. Also, there is a symbol on the recording icon indicating that the recording can't be duplicated.

Ray

Wirefox

03-31-08, 01:57 AM

drhankz

03-31-08, 07:50 AM

My elation with getting the SA cable card (older model PKM600) working was premature. I can decrypt channels only for a few hours before I get the 161-6 error.

A hard reboot clears the problem, but just temporarily. The soft reboot (TV guide and Exit keys) doesn't help at all. Sony says it's an electrical problem, and I need to ship the unit to PA for service.

so .... I guess we'll see what life is like without an HD DVR. I'm pissed off, but I still refuse to go Tivo.

WFX

I believe there was a known software problem
between the DHG and the SA cards. Have you
done the FW update. I believe that was one of
the reasons for the update to fix the SA problem.

Of course I could be WRONG.

But what I can say as an owner of 6 Sony
DVRs - the Sony Service Center is great.

jmonier

03-31-08, 10:10 AM

My elation with getting the SA cable card (older model PKM600) working was premature. I can decrypt channels only for a few hours before I get the 161-6 error.

A hard reboot clears the problem, but just temporarily. The soft reboot (TV guide and Exit keys) doesn't help at all. Sony says it's an electrical problem, and I need to ship the unit to PA for service.

so .... I guess we'll see what life is like without an HD DVR. I'm pissed off, but I still refuse to go Tivo.

WFX

Fixing it definitely requires a hardware modification and the only place they do that is PA.

drhankz

03-31-08, 11:11 AM

Fixing it definitely requires a hardware modification and the only place they do that is PA.

OH YES - I remember that fact now.

I'm glad I have MOTO Cable Cards :D

giomania

03-31-08, 01:15 PM

WhatHappend

03-31-08, 01:49 PM

I re-formatted the USB drive above using FAT32, but the update still did not work. Any ideas on what else to try?

Thanks.

Mark

Not all USB drives are compatible. Did you put the files on the drive the exact way described? If so, then you will have to try a different USB drive. Can you borrow one from some one?

dspadoni

03-31-08, 02:32 PM

washerebefore

03-31-08, 04:34 PM

Why does Sony Charge for a Fix that is a known Problem with the recorded.

I've been putting up with the 161-6 error for months and only get some channels.

What is the electronic fix?

Does anybody know what that fix is?

My recorded had that can't watch while recording problem but the USB update seem to take care of that.

But my cable company wants me to give back the CC for free use of Cable box non-DVR for a year.
If it was a DVR I'd do it in a sec and sell my Sony.:mad:

giomania

03-31-08, 08:28 PM

I downloaded the firmware update files from page 315 and loaded them onto a FAT formatted Dell 64Mb USB drive. I re-named the drive label to SONYHDD500, according to the instructions in SpiffSpace It did not take on my 1.12.05 firmware unit, even after unplugging and re-booting it.

How do I tell which type of FAT formatting I have? Windows XP only says FAT, nothing else.

Thanks.

Mark

I re-formatted the USB drive above using FAT32, but the update still did not work. Any ideas on what else to try?

Thanks.

Mark

Not all USB drives are compatible. Did you put the files on the drive the exact way described? If so, then you will have to try a different USB drive. Can you borrow one from some one?

I had the exact same problem with a Dell 64Mb USB drive, same as yours. I bought a 2Gb USB drive, formatted it as FAT (not FAT32; if a drive is FAT32, that should be stated in the drive properties dialog when you right-click the drive icon), and that worked perfectly (apparently, size matters :D). You should either borrow one or buy one; they're not expensive - I got a PNY brand for about 35 bucks. Just make certain you follow the instructions for labeling the drive, etc.

I used a Sandisk Cruzer 512Mb USB drive I have, and it worked. The drive was formatted as FAT, so I left it at that.

Thanks for all the help.

Mark

Ray1938

03-31-08, 09:25 PM

Michael1138

04-03-08, 02:14 PM

Rammitinski

04-03-08, 04:10 PM

If you search waaay back in this thread, there was someone who was told, either by Sony or TVGOS, that the only the Sony's with certain, later firmware versions would work.

If that turns out to be true, and seeing as mine is the earliest, I'd imagine I'm SOL.

DonInJackson

04-03-08, 05:31 PM

Ray1938

04-03-08, 06:47 PM

jmonier

04-03-08, 07:34 PM

Firmware upgrade is for tv compatibility. It has nothing to do with guide reception.
Ray

I (like the OP) also remember that a Sony tech was quoted as saying that the firmware upgrade enabled digital TVGOS. Other Sony personnel were quoted later as saying that the Sony firmware had nothing to do with it, but Sony personnel also were quoted as saying that the units would not receive digital TVGOS at all. So, the only thing I am sure of is that some people apparently have been able to receive digital TVGOS. Beyond that, I don't think there is a definitive answer about the details.

WhatHappend

04-03-08, 09:36 PM

I (like the OP) also remember that a Sony tech was quoted as saying that the firmware upgrade enabled digital TVGOS. Other Sony personnel were quoted later as saying that the Sony firmware had nothing to do with it, but Sony personnel also were quoted as saying that the units would not receive digital TVGOS at all. So, the only thing I am sure of is that some people apparently have been able to receive digital TVGOS. Beyond that, I don't think there is a definitive answer about the details.

How about the fact that I have the oldest known firmware and my box 100% guaranteed received digital VBI TVGOS information from Cable QAM256 and OTA ATSC 8VSB modulation. Is that definitive enough, it is for me....?

I have told you the issues with the current firmware and it needs polishing to make it robust. I am sure that polishing is to make the host and clockset channel not show strange values when a digital channel is used are probably some of those details corrected in the new TVGOS firmware.

I have a open case with SONY California support team (which is their highest level of support) and they don't know anything about the digital guide reception. The don't understand the TVGOS information pages either and just collect information as TVGuide requires to work on your case. I wouldn't put any stock in anything you hear from them.

riffjim4069

04-04-08, 12:49 AM

Just thought I'd pass along that it would appear CBS Digital KTVT 11.1 in Dallas, TX is broadcasting digital TV Guide data.

I performed the test as suggested by WhatHappend in post #11393. I have OTA only, tuned to 11.1, performed the G* Test, and left the unit on for 24 hours. When I checked the guide last night, it had the eighth day info as well as some other info from days that I was missing. The TV Guide Diagnostic menu still showed my host channel as 13 (PBS Analog). The Clock Set channel had changed to 11.1.

I have not tried the force host channel setting. One question regarding this: when you guys tried this, did you do the G* Factory Reset as suggested on SpiffSpace's site? I have read all of the posts, but as far as I can tell, it sounds like you just tuned to the digital host channel and performed the force host channel setting. Is this correct, or does it need to be reset so your host channel is blank?

Thanks for everyone's help and research into this. I love my DVR and would hate to lose it come next year.:)Thanks for the info! I just moved to the Dallas area, had my stuff unpacked yesterday, and had FiOS installed late this afternoon. I was a deep fringe bubba (55+ miles) while in the Washington DC area and (51+ miles) and Richmond VA DMA and used two rooftop antennas with preamps, but I was pleasantly surprised to pick up all the local digitals by pointing a $5 Radio Shack antenna placed on top of the TV towards the towers.:)

Anyway, my HDD500 picked up time within a few minues and I am interested to see what TVGOS picks up as its host station tomorrow morning. The FiOS Tech couldn't tell me if Verizon was passing TVGOS data, so I connected the $5 Radio Shack antenna just to be sure. We shall see. I have been using my HDD500 exclusively for OTA the past couple years, but the unit has the latest firmware along with the 161 electrical modification and sees 851 cable channels.

Also, I didn't think the current version of TVGOS on the Sony could support digital TVGOS? My Mitsubishi Diamond DLP (TVGOS version 9 or 10) supports digital TVGOS so I may give that a try tomorrow. Still waiting on the Dish TR-40 to be released.