I don't use HDMI, but I may with a future TV, could someone tell me what the issue is that you're all discussing.

What is the problem with auto-HDMI? What happens or doesn't happen?

I'm not sure about how it has affected other users, but one of the advantages to using a set resolution like 1080i is that changing the channels goes a lot faster because based on what I remember from reading here, Spiff's page, or the manual (can't remember which) is it doesn't automatically strech 4:3 content as well as it's not trying to find a way to display the native resolution of the channel, at least that's been my experience even when I have stretching turned off. So if you are like me and don't like stretch-o-vision 4:3 content is displayed with black bars. I'm not sure about how it works in reality but I think of it as if you set a computer monitor to 1280x1024 and are looking at content that is 720x480 (a DVD as example) it doesn't fill the whole screen. But if you choose to fill the whole screen pixellization occurs.

Also, if you have your resolution set at 720p or 1080i when you access the guide it fills the screen regardless of whether you are on a channel broadcasting at 480i, 720p, or 1080i. If you have it set to Auto-HDMI and are on a 480i channel the guide displays at 4:3 and it's not as easy to read. But if you set it to 1080i the guide will always display at 1080i regardless of the channel you are watching.

The problem seems to be that Auto-HDMI is the default setting if you have an HDMI cable attached, such that it overrides the previous user setting the next time you turn it on. Changing it back to 1080i ever time I turn it on is that hard to do, but it something I should have to do and gets a little annoying. Hopefully I will be able to load the firmware update tonight or this weekend and I won't ever have to worry about it again.

No one?

Cablevison is quickly moving channels to encrypted digital only requiring a cablecard or box to be viewable. If cablecards from Cablevison and these DVR's don't well together- TVGOS and all- it's going to be a problem even before the 2/09 issue.

From what I've read on a TiVo thread, the Scientific Atlanta NDS cards that Cablevision uses work semi-successfully. Odds are better with latest version. Lot of subscriber confusion was caused recently when Cablevision poorly stated its lineup changes with SDV (switched digital video). Some were told by CSRs that no HDs would be available using cablecard alone. Mail notice was ambiguously misleading. For now it's only the VOOM channels actually going to SDV, I think.

Based on various anecdotes, Cablevision doesn't sound like the easiest provider to deal with. I don't know if the Sony DVRs still have problems with more recent SA cards. Antenna can be used for TVGOS data if necessary.

I'm not sure about how it has affected other users, but one of the advantages to using a set resolution like 1080i is ...

Another viewpoint on this topic of setting resolution in the DHG. I have my 250 (with .13 firmware) connected to my Panny plasma via composite cables (I have a higher priority component connected to the single HDMI input). I found that if I set the DHG's output resolution to 1080i, I could not change the aspect ratio on my TV. This normally would not be an issue except for SD content in a 16x9 format inside a 4x3 mask (e.g., BattleStar Gallactica on SCI-FI SD). In this case, I could not change the aspect ratio on my TV to "Full" so that the 16x9 picture would fill the entire screen (black bars around all four sides instead). I assume that at 1080i input, the TV assumes the signal is already full-screen, black bars included. Changing the DHG's resolution to "Native" solved the problem, and I can live with the momentary lag in switching channels while the DHG senses the true resolution.

Based on various anecdotes, Cablevision doesn't sound like the easiest provider to deal with.

Besides the issues with VOOM, it's amazing what they are getting away with.

They have a family tier, the usual basic cable channels. Up to recently, there was no need for a cable box if you didn't order any premiums.

Now they are removing some channels, lately E, A&E, SciFi, Travel, TrueTV, C-Span, others, to digital and you could only watch them with a box or card.

Of course a box or card moves your tier up another $11 a month to something called IO plus every box for each TV in the home now costs $6+.

Nice increase in cost for the same viewing.

And if they do strip the TVGOS data out of the stream, then even if paying for the higher tier and the CC, it will still become a new hassle to get the data OTA.

I wish I had the ability to switch to FIOS now. Maybe we'll even go to satellite, the bastards at Cablevision shouldn't be allowed to get away with this crap.

Would you or anyone know if these SFA cards force the 161.4 error that would require another $150 too per DVR for the Sony fix?

I just updated my 250 to ver 13 ) ... when it says to press the "OK" button you need to use the front panel button not the remote. The remote button worked fine to start the update but when the dvr prompted to press OK to initiate the reboot pushing OK on the remote did nothing. I had to press the front panel OK button...I wonder if this is universally true, or maybe it could be due to you having the DVR and remote set for "code 51". When the firmware is updated, the DVR would likely revert back to "code 50", so the remote would not work.

.... if they do strip the TVGOS data out of the stream, then even if paying for the higher tier and the CC, it will still become a new hassle to get the data OTA.

I wish I had the ability to switch to FIOS now. Maybe we'll even go to satellite, the bastards at Cablevision shouldn't be allowed to get away with this crap.

Would you or anyone know if these SFA cards force the 161.4 error that would require another $150 too per DVR for the Sony fix?

A search of this thread for Scientific Atlanta will bring up better info than I can guess at. Many references.

Channels available clear QAM (unencrypted) are drying up nationwide. Verizon Phila. never offered a lot - the locals, much music, and various obscure nuggets familiar to nobody; locals in HD untunable for last 6 months unless you're using just the right brand, not Sony. TVGOS data hasn't ever been available through FiOS but should be from CBS affiliate when measures are completed. A good idea to have antenna setup for any miscellaneous cable difficulty; quick and easy to do.

I've gotten the impression that sloth and rudeness are not uncommon at Cablevision. I've yet to encounter either with Comcast and Verizon. That would bother me as much as anything.

One thing I noticed that maybe should be updated in the instructions on the spiffspace 1.1.10 section (updating the firmware)... when it says to press the "OK" button you need to use the front panel button not the remote. The remote button worked fine to start the update but when the dvr prompted to press OK to initiate the reboot pushing OK on the remote did nothing. I had to press the front panel OK button...I also did the firmware update tonight, but the OK button on my remote worked fine, and I didn't need to press anything on the DVR itself.

Scott

Here in Indy, the PBS station recently changed some equipment for their feed to Brighthouse networks. The VBI packets don't make it through; we have to use OTA reception to get time/listings.

Since it has been several weeks, I'm not sure if this will ever be fixed... and with the digital TV changeover in less than a year, presumably all the older equipment like my DVD-R that gets time from the TV signal will stop working.

Are there any regs about keeping this legacy stuff going BEFORE the changeover? Or is keeping it going until February 2009 optional?

Marc

I betting dollars to donuts that Sony will come out with a DVR. Read the enclosed news.


Agreement may mean end of cable set-top boxes
Wednesday May 28, 7:40 am ET
By John Dunbar, Associated Press Writer
Agreement between cable industry, Sony, may be beginning of the end for set-top boxes

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The set-top box, a necessary appendage for millions of cable television customers for decades, is moving toward extinction.

A leading television manufacturer, Sony Electronics Inc., and the National Cable and Telecommunications Association said Tuesday they signed an agreement that will allow viewers to rid themselves of set-top boxes, yet still receive advanced "two-way" cable services, such as pay-per-view movies.

In most cases, cable viewers also could dispose of another remote control since they could use their TV's control rather than one tied to the set-top box.

The agreement marks a significant meeting of the minds between cable companies and one of the world's dominant makers of consumer electronics. The two industries have been feuding for a decade about how best to deliver cable service to customers while allowing them to buy equipment of their own choosing.

Sony agreed to use the cable industry's technology in its sets as soon as possible but could not say when the first such televisions might be appear in stores.

The agreement is between Sony and the nation's six largest cable companies: Comcast Corp., Time Warner Cable Inc., Cox Communications Inc., Charter Communications Inc., Cablevision Systems Corp. and Bright House Networks. The six companies serve more than 82 percent of cable subscribers.

Cable subscribers are generally locked into renting a set-top box from their provider if they want more than the most basic cable TV service.

More than a decade ago, Congress ordered the cable industry to allow outside electronics makers to compete for the boxes. The industry responded by developing the "cable card." The cards are inserted into competing boxes, televisions or other devices and unscramble the cable signal.

The cards have been the source of frequent customer complaints and never proved popular. In addition, sets can only receive signals from their cable company, not vice versa. Subscribers were unable to enjoy "two-way" features such as video on demand, on-screen channel guides and cable company-provided digital video recorders.

Customers will still be able to attach their own devices -- like TiVo digital video recorders, according to the NCTA.

Under the new system, customers will still need to get a cable card from their provider, but the agreement means, hopefully, technical glitches will be eliminated, "two-way" services will be available and there will be no need for the clunky boxes.

The cable association said it was hopeful other electronics manufacturers will also agree to use the same technology.

The industry hopes to head off action by the Federal Communications Commission to impose a two-way standard on the industry.

"Every member of the FCC has encouraged the parties to resolve these highly technical issues in private-sector negotiations," said Kyle McSlarrow, president of NCTA. Tuesday's announcement means they have done so, he added.

The FCC declined to comment on the agreement Tuesday.

That was my first thought as well when I saw that they were going to do tru2way. However, it is my understanding that the DHGs didn't do that great when they were sold because they couldn't compete against Tivo and Cable providers cost on renting DVRs. I'm not sure anything has changed. Except for geeks like us most people don't realize there are other DVR options out there other than what cable or satellite companies offer. The few blog posts I read about this seemed to think that initially this would only be in TVs. Who knows, I hope I'm wrong ;)

After seeing a previous post of how dusty the inside of a DHG could get, I decided to open up my two 500s and one 250 and give them a cleaning. All 3 needed the cleaning. One of the 500s had Maxtor drives while the other two used Western Digital. I've also been monitoring the temperature of the drives.
Model Drive 1 temp Drive 2 temp
500 102 107
500 105 109
250 95 n/a

Are these temps normal? What temps are some of you out there experiencing?

I am pretty sure that those temps are Fahrenheit and that seems to be in line with what my drive temps have been.

The cable association said it was hopeful other electronics manufacturers will also agree to use the same technology.

The industry hopes to head off action by the Federal Communications Commission to impose a two-way standard on the industry.

The FCC declined to comment on the agreement Tuesday.

Wait a minute. Is this just Sony finally agreeing to the Tru2way standard that all the other manufacturers have already agreed to or is this something that will compete against it? I know that TiVo, Panasonic, Samsung, LG, etc. had all agreed to the Tru2way standard and most even had demos at CES while Sony was the lone holdout.

After seeing a previous post of how dusty the inside of a DHG could get, I decided to open up my two 500s and one 250 and give them a cleaning. All 3 needed the cleaning. One of the 500s had Maxtor drives while the other two used Western Digital. I've also been monitoring the temperature of the drives.
Model Drive 1 temp Drive 2 temp
500 102 107
500 105 109
250 95 n/a

Are these temps normal? What temps are some of you out there experiencing?

High 90's and low 100's seem to be fairly normal.

I'm running the latest .13 firmware and tried HDMI tonight for the first time -- what a disaster. Picture would freeze about every 30 seconds, probably a "handshake" issue, but no matter what setting I had the resolution, it didn't help (and it did this on everything -- recordings, live TV, even with the menu screen up...looked like the DVR has having an issue connecting to my TV).

My component connection, meanwhile, still works flawlessly, but I was hoping to use the 500's HDMI out on my new TV.

Is there any remedy for this particular problem or am I just supposed to stick with component??

Is there any remedy for this particular problem or am I just supposed to stick with component??

There is no HDMI problem with the HDD500.

With that said - there are a lot of If's And's and Maybe's.

1) HDMI requires a new handshake every time you change a channel.

2) HDMI requires refresh handshakes every so often. I don't remember how often.

3) When you switch from an SD channel to a HD Channel - it triggers a ground zero handshake.

4) A way to reduce SD/HD handshakes is set the DVR to 1080i all the time.

Your problem sounds more serious than all these NORMAL pain in the rear handshakes.

I would point the finger at the HDMI cable or your new TV.

I have 5 of these SONY DVRs in use.

I USE Component.

There is ZERO picture quality difference between 1080i via component versus 1080i HDMI.

I would point the finger at the HDMI cable or your new TV.

It's not the cable -- I tried swapping them out. I've also tried setting the DVR on 1080i (or 720p or Auto HDMI) and it doesn't seem to matter, the break-up is constant.

If it IS the TV, then it's the only device out of 3 with HDMI that has this problem. I have a Directv HD box and a Blu Ray player which don't exhibit this problem over HDMI, just the Sony. Guess I'll stick with component.

If it IS the TV, then it's the only device out of 3 with HDMI that has this problem. I have a Directv HD box and a Blu Ray player which don't exhibit this problem over HDMI, just the Sony. Guess I'll stick with component.

There are a LOT of years between the SONY DVR
and your new TV. HDMI Standards to this day are
still moving targets. Not all manufactures get them
right today and VERY Few test with first Gen HDMI
gear like the Sony DVR.

I have a brand new TiVo-HD and the Component out
from the TiVo is still the better choice.

Since Max TV HD resolution is 1080i and sound is
at best DD 5.1. You loose NOTHING by using Component
and then all the problems go away.

HDMI is best left for 1080p and Lossless Audio.

Thanks guys. Well that was one of the strangest things I've encountered with any home theater set-up I've had...to make a long story short, I tried different HDMI cables, no luck. I tried changing the Sony's resolution, no luck. Now, I had been using an HDMI switch box, so when I plugged the Sony into the switch box, that's when the problems began to occur. I unplugged the Sony, went RIGHT into the TV via HDMI, but at first had the same problem.

It was at that point this AM when other HDMI devices on this LCD began acting up -- as in, no audio or video. I tried swapping HDMI cables and I guess that caused connections that had been working fine before to start "wonking out."

I basically unplugged the TV and started from scratch -- but this time again put the Sony directly into the TV via HDMI, bypassing the switch box.

Everything is now working again -- including devices that are hooked up via the switch box and HDMI.

I guess the Sony didn't like the HDMI switch box, and I'm guessing caused some kind of friction with the TV that needed it to be re-set or something? I would try unplugging HDMI cables and putting them into the TV, and got nothing but black screens until the TV had been turned off and re-set for an extended period of time.

Either way it's just plain weird, I've never seen anything like it, but everything is working again fine, including the Sony. Go figure!

Either way it's just plain weird, I've never seen anything like it, but everything is working again fine, including the Sony. Go figure!

It is not weird - it is what I said earlier.

When it comes to HDMI!

IT IS NOT PLUG and PLAY.

Some HDMI implementations do not allow anything in
the HDMI chain and some do. You just never know.
Then there are THREE versions of HDMI in the Field.
It is a CRAP shoot to learn what works with what.

Agreed DrHankz. I know component is just as good, I've been using it since I first owned my Sony DVR, but I needed to add another piece to the rack and it only has a component connection, hence my need to use the Sony's HDMI connection. If I didn't have to do it, I wouldn't have ;)

I have tried to use only HDMI mainly for cable management reasons to keep the back of my TV uncluttered. So far I have been lucky that when I do have the issue of either my DHG or DVD player blanking out on me I have found that turning off all components and replugging in the HDMI connections seems to help. I don't know if this is actually doing something or not. But I don't have the issue that often and the above method has always worked for me. I have actually had the opposite problem were I can't get my receiver to see component connections. I am sure I could get them working if I spent a little more time, but I see no point since the HDMI works 99% of the time.

[QUOTE=hdaddiction;13962917]I betting dollars to donuts that Sony will come out with a DVR. Read the enclosed news.

I don't see what this has to do with DVRs...

On the other hand, I noticed at the beginning of the month that Sony was starting to sell IN JAPAN a dual tuner OTA receiver/recorder that could WRITE to blu-ray..!

I just updated my DHG-500 from 1.2.06 to 1.2.13. I don't remember anyone saying the update would reset your tv guide.

Update: It's been nearly 3 hours and parts of my tv guide is back.

Did anyone else happen to see the show NBC had on tonight called "Get Ready for Digital TV?" They were showing how the new digital converter boxes work. It comes with its own remote and you actually use the box to tune the channel, not the TV's tuner.

So if I understand it right, it looks like these boxes won't work with our units, because you have to tune the the channel with the converter box instead of with the DHG-HDD units.

So if I understand it right, it looks like these boxes won't work with our units, because you have to tune the the channel with the converter box instead of with the DHG-HDD units.

Huh? Since the DHG-HDD's already have a digital tuner, why would you want the converter? The converter boxes are ONLY for NTSC only TVs which only have an antenna signal source - they aren't needed for digital TVs (or DVRs) or cable/sat sources.

I thought the reason for the converter is to get guide data.

But that raises the question of how do you feed ATSC and the converter's NTSC into the one ATSC/NTSC input?

Thanks Mark. So you are saying both inputs are NTSC/ATSC/QAM even though they are labeled ant & cable.
I don't trust our local CBS station. They don't even pass DD5.1 and mess up a lot.

The idea is that you would use both RF inputs of the DHG-HDDxxx, connecting your main antenna/cable to one and the output of the converter box to the other. Then you'd leave the converter box tuned to whatever the TVGOS host channel is. The converter box would translate the newer digitally-transmitted TVGOS data to VHF analog channel 3 or 4, which the DHG-HDDxxx could tune to as if it were an analog broadcast. That this will even work at all is pure speculation by other posters in this thread, though I guess it is possible.
If you have to leave the HDD unit on channel 3 or 4, then how do you record other channels with it? I didn't think that both inputs were the same?
But it might not even be necessary. The latest on the 2009 analog cutoff situation is that a number of us in this thread have successfully received guide data from OTA CBS affiliates who are starting to transmit the TVGOS guide data in their digital broadcasts -- without a converter box. Seach back a few months for the details.
But don't you need a firmware update for this?

Thanks

If you have to leave the HDD unit on channel 3 or 4, then how do you record other channels with it? I didn't think that both inputs were the same?

The Theroy is that it would only work for those that are using only one of the two inputs normally. The other input would become dedicated to TVGOS receptions. (I doubt there will ever be a converter box that will generate the needed VBI signal).

But don't you need a firmware update for this?

No

The Theroy is that it would only work for those that are using only one of the two inputs normally. The other input would become dedicated to TVGOS receptions. (I doubt there will ever be a converter box that will generate the needed VBI signal).

No
I guess we'll have to wait and see come next February. My PBS station still sends out the guide info here, I hope they have the right equipment. Hopefully we won't have boat anchors come next year.

Thanks

I guess we'll have to wait and see come next February. My PBS station still sends out the guide info here, I hope they have the right equipment. Hopefully we won't have boat anchors come next year.

I will take your boat anchor off your hands and pay shipping next year:) They work with the digial TVGOS signal for me from CBS here in the MSPL area.

I will take your boat anchor off your hands and pay shipping next year:) They work with the digial TVGOS signal for me from CBS here in the MSPL area.
Is there a way to test and see if my local station is sending the guide info out over the digital channel?

Thanks

The Theroy is that it would only work for those that are using only one of the two inputs normally. The other input would become dedicated to TVGOS receptions. (I doubt there will ever be a converter box that will generate the needed VBI signal).

No

Some boxes have an analog pass-thru feature so both the converted analog signal on channel 3/4 and all antenna signals are sent to the antenna input of the DVR. Since the DVR automatically searches for the guide channel in standby mode, there is no need to keep it turned to the guide channel.
Hopefully, the DVR will work off the digital signal so there won't be a need to use the converter box. I plan to buy one of these boxes as a backup option.
Ray

Some boxes have an analog pass-thru feature so both the converted analog signal on channel 3/4 and all antenna signals are sent to the antenna input of the DVR. Since the DVR automatically searches for the guide channel in standby mode, there is no need to keep it turned to the guide channel.

actually, as far as I know only one box available so far has the pass-through feature and it's EITHER/OR, i.e., you have to switch between having pass-through and having the converted channel (which would be as channel 3 or 4)...

but that doesn't matter, particularly, because you can always get a box without pass-through, split your antenna signal with one going to the box, then joining back with the other branch to go to the Sony. This is the method I plan to use for my LG-3410-a, which uses TVGOS v7 and apparently doesn't update itself from the broadcast TVGOS...

If the Sony DOES automatically go for the CBS digital broadcast, then all this is moot for the Sony..

But for either unit, we won't know until we know...

actually, as far as I know only one box available so far has the pass-through feature and it's EITHER/OR, i.e., you have to switch between having pass-through and having the converted channel (which would be as channel 3 or 4)...

but that doesn't matter, particularly, because you can always get a box without pass-through, split your antenna signal with one going to the box, then joining back with the other branch to go to the Sony. This is the method I plan to use for my LG-3410-a, which uses TVGOS v7 and apparently doesn't update itself from the broadcast TVGOS...

If the Sony DOES automatically go for the CBS digital broadcast, then all this is moot for the Sony..

But for either unit, we won't know until we know...

I wonder if all pass-through boxes will work the same way? A long time ago, I proposed your suggestion to merge signals. If I do so, I will have to add an amplifier because I don't want to reduce signal level, but that creates a potential problem from overdrive due to all the signals in the LA area.
Ray

Is there a way to test and see if my local station is sending the guide info out over the digital channel?

Thanks

Review my posts in this thread.

I wonder if all pass-through boxes will work the same way? A long time ago, I proposed your suggestion to merge signals. If I do so, I will have to add an amplifier because I don't want to reduce signal level, but that creates a potential problem from overdrive due to all the signals in the LA area.
Ray

I think the issue will be moot. Nevertheless there are ways to deal with signal levels whatever the situation. I assume you're already using a distribution amp like Channel Master's 4 or 8 port unit. The latter provides a modest boost. At my location the signals are strong except for two very weak ones. I moved a CM4221 to the third floor and added a preamp. Attenuators were used at the input of distribution amp to bring the signals down somewhat. Cable provider techs have them in values of 3,6,8, and 9db or so. Same with smarthome.com.

HDMI was addressed in the .13 firmware.

See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9714905#post9714905

You have my report and at least one other about auto-HDMI issue fixes with .13. What more do you need? It only took me less then 10min to apply the update.


I found one case where .13 will go back to auto-HDMI, after a power outage. The format must be stored in RAM in the SONY DVR. For people that have never had the auto-HDMI glitch, does your DVR go back to auto-HDMI if it losses power?

Yesterday, after reading here that CBS 4.1 in Minneapolis/St.Paul is sending TVGOS VBI, and disregarding the warnings and instructions to only do it if you've already completely cleared the guide, I did the service menu "VBI Search Current Channel" (963214785) while tuned to 4.1.

Today, (Wednesday 6/4), I checked the guide for some programs next Wednesday and they were there. Through next Tuesday, the programs all have the day listed by name (Wed, Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon, Tue) but starting with next Wednesday, the first new day loaded from 4.1, it shows the date (6/11).

In the TVGOS diagnostic screen, my host channel is listed as 4 but the VBI source is shown as 4.1. So, it appears I'm getting the updates from CBS's digital broadcast, thus, I believe my DHG-HDD250 is now 2009 proof!

In the TVGOS diagnostic screen, my host channel is listed as 4 but the VBI source is shown as 4.1. So, it appears I'm getting the updates from CBS's digital broadcast, thus, I believe my DHG-HDD250 is now 2009 proof!

Note that the "VBI channel" listed in the diagnostics pages is simply the channel that you are currently tuned to.

You say the host channel is listed as "4", but can you be more specific? This could mean that analog channel 4 is the host.

From my FAQ page:

Enter the Service Menu for TVGOS (See 2.2.2)

(System Info) chart will appear. Press <RIGHT> to go to second page. 5 entries down on the list it will say "Host Channel". It will appear as 0:0-XX (example: 0:0-11), the XX is your Host Channel. In the example shown, the "0" (zero) PRECEDING the colon indicates that it is OTA channel 11. If the digit PRECEDING the colon is a "1", then it is showing CABLE channel 11 is the host.

I found one case where .13 will go back to auto-HDMI, after a power outage. The format must be stored in RAM in the SONY DVR. For people that have never had the auto-HDMI glitch, does your DVR go back to auto-HDMI if it losses power?

Yes

Note that the "VBI channel" listed in the diagnostics pages is simply the channel that you are currently tuned to.

You say the host channel is listed as "4", but can you be more specific? This could mean that analog channel 4 is the host.

Well, isn't that interesting - VBI Channel is just whatever channel you are tuned to - seems like a misleading label. You are correct of course, my host channel is now set to 0:0-4 so, now I'm getting the TVGOS off analog 4 (previously I had it set to analog 9). Upon further checking, I note my firmware is still 1.2.06 - guess I should update to 1.2.13 then try setting the host channel to 4.1 again.

Well, isn't that interesting - VBI Channel is just whatever channel you are tuned to - seems like a misleading label. You are correct of course, my host channel is now set to 0:0-4 so, now I'm getting the TVGOS off analog 4 (previously I had it set to analog 9). Upon further checking, I note my firmware is still 1.2.06 - guess I should update to 1.2.13 then try setting the host channel to 4.1 again.
Jimmy you should probably read the previous posts on this topic unless you like to waste your time. I received the digital TVGOS signal with FW 1.2.05 so .13 should do nothing for you. The box will always prefer an analog host to digital. It won't stay with the digital channel as long as the analogs are available (confirmed from SONY.)

I also did the firmware update tonight, but the OK button on my remote worked fine, and I didn't need to press anything on the DVR itself.

Scott

Just wanted to add that I updated both my 250s in less than 10 minutes each with a 512Mb drive. Couldn't be happier or easier. Certainly easier than doing my HD players.

I'm wondering which, if any of the currently-available CEC converter boxes, will work to continue passing the guide data to my 500 after the analog shutoff? I know there has been recent discussion here about this.... just want to pick one up b4 my CEC coupons run on on June 10th.... which boxes do you guys prefer, coupon-eligible or not? Of course, the Echostar TR-40 and 50, but those aren't out yet,right? Also, I think I saw a site online that would give credit for the coupon and apply it to the TR-40 once available... can any of you refer me to that site?

Thanks - Jacob
Syracuse, NY

You're allowed to buy a coupon-eligible box and later return it for another coupon-eligible box, so this might be one way of prolonging the value of the coupons.

I think you can only exchange it if that is the policy of the store you bought it from

I'm wondering which, if any of the currently-available CEC converter boxes, will work to continue passing the guide data to my 500 after the analog shutoff?

No box is known to pass the analog TVGOS information. I am wonder if the Echostar converters will ever be released with their TIVO law suit ongoing.
http://www.tvpredictions.com/dishtivo053008.htm May 30, 2008
The verdict has since been tied up in appeals court, but TiVo said this week that a resolution is expected shortly. The company claims that Dish Network now owes it approximately $100 million in damages. Additionally, TiVo says Dish must disable all current HD and SD DVRs because of the patent infringement.

[QUOTE=WhatHappend;14014694]No box is known to pass the analog TVGOS information.

have any of them been TESTED??? they are all required to pass the CC info, which supposedly travels the same path as TVGOS

No one?

Cablevison is quickly moving channels to encrypted digital only requiring a cablecard or box to be viewable. If cablecards from Cablevison and these DVR's don't well together- TVGOS and all- it's going to be a problem even before the 2/09 issue.

i am using 2 500s on cablevision with cablecards and having no problems.
my friend is a cablevision tech and he said that they are moving more channels to something called switched video. thus requiring a set top box to receive these moved channels. fios here i come

I don't think FIOS passes the TVGOS data.

No box is known to pass the analog TVGOS information.

have any of them been TESTED??? they are all required to pass the CC info, which supposedly travels the same path as TVGOS

You will have to educate yourself. The way CC is sent via digital modulation as nothing to do with VBI. The modulator makes the CC VBI signal from the new digital CC signal (no TVGOS signal is present). That is another reason it will take a lot of effort for a company to make a TVGOS compliant device. They would have to mix the TVGOS VBI signal they would make from the digital CC data that has been modulated to make a CC VBI signal with the manditory VBI signal for the CC.

Yes, I have heard of one or two different models being tested and no TVGOS VBI signal.

Clarification: Which currently available CEC boxes will convert the digital TVGOS data to analog TVGOS and pass it on to my HDD500 for proven, reliable TVGOS guide data updates/info? Thanks!

Clarification: Which currently available CEC boxes will convert the digital TVGOS data to analog TVGOS and pass it on to my HDD500 for proven, reliable TVGOS guide data updates/info? Thanks!

NONE

Clarification: Which currently available CEC boxes will convert the digital TVGOS data to analog TVGOS and pass it on to my HDD500 for proven, reliable TVGOS guide data updates/info? Thanks!


NONE

I thought that it was rumored that the TR-40/DTVPal would be capable of this feat.

I thought that it was rumored that the TR-40/DTVPal would be capable of this feat.We won't know for another few weeks yet, will we? Any device that achieves a 7/8 day guide capability almost certainly will be decoding TVGOS. Gemstar suggested to the FCC that, having gone to all the trouble to do that, it would be trivial to encode the guide data back into VBI on the assigned TVGOS scan line, just as they decode the mandatory CC data and encode it back into VBI on the assigned CC scan line. However, Gemstar did not succeed in making such TVGOS decoding/encoding mandatory. Thus current generation boxes (which have only PSIP based per-station guides) don't do it. The DTVPal, due out soon, will be the first test case if it lives up to its claims of a 7/8 day guide (a TVGOS guide populates anywhere from 7 to 8 days into the future depending on what time of day it is and when the last update occurred.)

The fly in the ointment with respect to any CECB using TVGOS is that the tuner and processor must remain powered and fully functional when the unit is in standby (since that is when the host channel is tuned and TVGOS data is downloaded.) Seems to me that's going to make it difficult for the manufacturer to meet the strict 1 watt limit on standby power consumption. I'm anxious to see how this is going to pan out.

And unfortunately, the DTVPal is no longer $39.99 MSRP.

I don't think FIOS passes the TVGOS data.

That's correct. FiOS + antenna = usable Sony DVR.

I must be missing something but I don't understand why converter boxes are still being contemplated here. Is it not just a matter of time, and updates, before the Gemstar data is uniformly acquired digitally from CBS owned and affiliated stations through OTA, cable, even FiOS finally?

You will have to educate yourself. The way CC is sent via digital modulation as nothing to do with VBI. The modulator makes the CC VBI signal from the new digital CC signal (no TVGOS signal is present). That is another reason it will take a lot of effort for a company to make a TVGOS compliant device. They would have to mix the TVGOS VBI signal they would make from the digital CC data that has been modulated to make a CC VBI signal with the manditory VBI signal for the CC.

Yes, I have heard of one or two different models being tested and no TVGOS VBI signal.

well, we'll see - maybe you will have to educate yourself

well, we'll see - maybe you will have to educate yourself

What do you mean? I have read the NTSC VBI specs and ATSC PSIP data specs. I can't read TVGOS spec because it is Gemstar proprietary. I have talked to to Gemstar engineers and SONY engineers about the TVGOS interface. We know which VBI lines it is carried on for VBI, but don't know the protocol or contents. If you have some more information send it on. I am not afraid to learn.

I said there are currently none. To put the TVGOS digital to VBI modulator would require a license agreement from Genstar which at least ECOSTAR purchased. But with the lawsuit with TIVO I don't think they will release their GEMSTAR Guide products.

Due to the extra development costs and testing, none of the generic box manufactures are going to spend the extra money for no return.

I have a question for anyone out there who can help. I have 2 500s' with cablecards and have been with Cox Cable for years. Where I live, in Fairfax, VA, Cox has gone to SDV since the end of 2007 and I therefore cannot access many of the new channels they have added and have also lost some. I am seriously contemplating switching to FIOS which is now in my area and having their cablecards installed in my two units. My question is, can I use the current Cox digital guide info that I currently receive for my cablecards and remap the channels to the FIOS channels on the new cablecards that FIOS installs? Currently my zip code only brings up channel lineups for Cox, (there are none for FIOS) but could I theoretically use the Cox lineups for the FIOS cablecards at least until Feb 2009 since in my area most of the channels (programming)would be the same? Is anyone in my area, or elsewhere currently using their SONY units with FIOS cablecards? What about the clock? Cox is currently retransmitting my host channel through their cable in an analog format. Would that create a problem for me setting the clock with the FIOS cablecards? Thanks for any info.

Back to the CECB question, how are folks getting the TVGOS data from their local digital CDS affiliates right now then (with a digital host channel?) What STB are they using to decode the digital TVGOS data so their analog HDD500 tuners can get the analog TVGOS data? Or are the digital stations passing the analog TVGOS data directly? Please clarify.... I'm pretty sure I saw a few pages back promising info that these DVR's won't become glorified papaerweights after the analog shutoff next year....

I have a question for anyone out there who can help. I have 2 500s' with cablecards and have been with Cox Cable for years. Where I live, in Fairfax, VA, Cox has gone to SDV since the end of 2007 and I therefore cannot access many of the new channels they have added and have also lost some. I am seriously contemplating switching to FIOS which is now in my area and having their cablecards installed in my two units. My question is, can I use the current Cox digital guide info that I currently receive for my cablecards and remap the channels to the FIOS channels on the new cablecards that FIOS installs? Currently my zip code only brings up channel lineups for Cox, (there are none for FIOS) but could I theoretically use the Cox lineups for the FIOS cablecards at least until Feb 2009 since in my area most of the channels (programming)would be the same? Is anyone in my area, or elsewhere currently using their SONY units with FIOS cablecards? What about the clock? Cox is currently retransmitting my host channel through their cable in an analog format. Would that create a problem for me setting the clock with the FIOS cablecards? Thanks for any info.

Yes, you can do that but I'd be surprised if it was necessary. I signed up with FiOS in the first months it was available anywhere in suburban Philadelphia, 11/06. Verizon Phila. appeared in the guide as an option right away. All of the channels that Cox and Verizon share could be remapped if necessary but I'd try some nearby zipcodes first if they've had FiOS longer than you have. You'll have to install an antenna, probably nothing exotic, to get clock and TVGOS data for the time being through analog. Setup will need to be redone anyway with VZ cablecard installation; Cable + Antenna in setup.

There is much discussion of the SDV dongle adapter on the TiVo Community Forum. It sounds like it will be available next month at the soonest, perhaps not until the end of the year depending on cable provider etc.

Yes, you can do that but I'd be surprised if it was necessary. I signed up with FiOS in the first months it was available anywhere in suburban Philadelphia, 11/06. Verizon Phila. appeared in the guide as an option right away. All of the channels that Cox and Verizon share could be remapped if necessary but I'd try some nearby zipcodes first if they've had FiOS longer than you have. You'll have to install an antenna, probably nothing exotic, to get clock and TVGOS data for the time being through analog. Setup will need to be redone anyway with VZ cablecard installation; Cable + Antenna in setup.

There is much discussion of the SDV dongle adapter on the TiVo Community Forum. It sounds like it will be available next month at the soonest, perhaps not until the end of the year depending on cable provider etc.

Thanks for the info. As far as the tuning adapter, I thought that that would only work with the Tivos because Tivo is planning to give their users the needed firmware upgrade when the time arrives to communicate with the adapter. Sony engineers have already told me that there are no plans to upgrade the existing firmware for the units because it has been discontinued . But I guess we'll just need to wait and see. Thanks again.

Back to the CECB question, how are folks getting the TVGOS data from their local digital CDS affiliates right now then (with a digital host channel?) What STB are they using to decode the digital TVGOS data so their analog HDD500 tuners can get the analog TVGOS data? Or are the digital stations passing the analog TVGOS data directly? Please clarify.... I'm pretty sure I saw a few pages back promising info that these DVR's won't become glorified papaerweights after the analog shutoff next year....

I am one of the members that has received digital guide information with the HDD500. No converter, the HDD500 can decode the digital information straight from a CBS owned digtial ATSC or a proper cable modulated QAM256 version of that CBS channel. The HDD500 from day one has had a ATSC VBI slicer to receive Digital TVGOS information (no analog VBI required).

Back to the CECB question, how are folks getting the TVGOS data from their local digital CDS affiliates right now then (with a digital host channel?) What STB are they using to decode the digital TVGOS data so their analog HDD500 tuners can get the analog TVGOS data? Or are the digital stations passing the analog TVGOS data directly? Please clarify.... I'm pretty sure I saw a few pages back promising info that these DVR's won't become glorified papaerweights after the analog shutoff next year....

I think the confusion is coming from the fact that all CBS affiliates are not at this time broadcasting the digital TVGOS data. I can confirm that the S.F. Bay Area is and the TVGOS diagnostic menu will pass the VBI test. I haven't actually tried to update the quide this way due to apathy.

What do you mean?

what I meant, in part, is connected with another meaning of the word "educato", in Italian, which is "polite"...

otherwise, my impression from one of the guys in the LG3410a thread is that Gemstar has already tested a box (maybe the Echostar, but in any case some box that at the time had not been released) and found it passed the tvgos data...although he's mum about further details about his contact, this seemed consistent with the fact (or impression I had) that both the TVGOS and CC data were sent in analog with the vbi data and that there was talk that boxes would be designed to pass a lot of the vbi data

...so the attitude of the people in that thread has been "we shall see"..

what I meant, in part, is connected with another meaning of the word "educato", in Italian, which is "polite"...

otherwise, my impression from one of the guys in the LG3410a thread is that Gemstar has already tested a box (maybe the Echostar, but in any case some box that at the time had not been released) and found it passed the tvgos data...although he's mum about further details about his contact, this seemed consistent with the fact (or impression I had) that both the TVGOS and CC data were sent in analog with the vbi data and that there was talk that boxes would be designed to pass a lot of the vbi data

...so the attitude of the people in that thread has been "we shall see"..

There was also the #11234 post in this thread from DataChanEngr that sounds pretty definitive. So if for some reason the sony can't use the digital signal reliably due to some spastic need to hunt for an analog guide source one of the CECB boxes will probably work fine.

I am one of the members that has received digital guide information with the HDD500. No converter, the HDD500 can decode the digital information straight from a CBS owned digtial ATSC or a proper cable modulated QAM256 version of that CBS channel. The HDD500 from day one has had a ATSC VBI slicer to receive Digital TVGOS information (no analog VBI required).

Could you explain what needs to be done to get the digital CBS channel (4.1 in the MSP area) to be the host rather than the analog station (4). I have disabled all the analog stations on my HDD250, yet, doing the VBI Search while tuned to 4.1 still results in selection of the analog channel as the host.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't entirely understand the VBI issue as well as some people here. And I know there was talk at one point about whether a converter would be needed to get the data to pass properly. With that in mind, would this new box be a better candidate than others since it does analog pass-through: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/06-05-2008/0004826916&EDATE=

Thanks for the info. As far as the tuning adapter, I thought that that would only work with the Tivos because Tivo is planning to give their users the needed firmware upgrade when the time arrives to communicate with the adapter. Sony engineers have already told me that there are no plans to upgrade the existing firmware for the units because it has been discontinued . But I guess we'll just need to wait and see. Thanks again.

I know nothing about Sonys and SDV dongle compatability so I shouldn't have brought up the issue at all. TiVos semi-routinely get major updates online. The most recent one causing disastrous buffering problems for many TiVo HDs; the S3 survived pretty much unscathed.

The other thing to consider is Verzon's strategy, if anybody knows what it is, including them. Last September they announced that they were fully committed to deploying a request_and_send IPTV system nationwide by 2010 - for targeted advertising and to avoid increasing QAMs at VHOs and COs. Mid May they announced that there wasn't a "business case" for changing much of anything; no mention of increasing QAMs for expanding SD/HD lineup. I guess their long term stategy changes quarter to quarter. Their IPTV system might have been a major threat to cablecard devices. As I read it, the bandwidth currently reserved for ONT converted analogs is equivalent to what 50 SDs or 10 HDs need. So there will have to be an increase in QAMs even with analogs dropped - to be competitive lineup wise eventually. Don't know what their plans are; they seem to be content maintaining the status quo at the moment.

Verizon is still using Motorola S cards that are very similar to what Comcast was using in '06. They are very reliable generally. At some point VZ will have the multi stream M cards.

Could you explain what needs to be done to get the digital CBS channel (4.1 in the MSP area) to be the host rather than the analog station (4). I have disabled all the analog stations on my HDD250, yet, doing the VBI Search while tuned to 4.1 still results in selection of the analog channel as the host.

Do the 9012 Gemstar Test on the CBS Digtial Host
Do the VBI Search during a Guide download period.

How to find out if the SONY is in a download period.
1) Tune to CBS Digital
1) 9012 Gemstart test screen
3) Make sure VBI packets are increasing.
4) Goto Gemstar Diag screens (753159852) menu
5) Goto ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen and verify TVG packets are increasing.
6) Goto Section Rception-Slicing 2 screen and in the right column if the Dummy count is increasing it is not a download period.

There are diag screens in GMT time that you can use to figure out the next guide download. They are confusing but the VBIDL screen shows your last download start for various DLIDs. You can use that to know when your unit will download again (remember the upper left corner of these screens has the current time in GMT that you can use. MN is GMT -5hrs now.

Have fun.... and report your results.

.... So there will have to be an increase in QAMs even with analogs dropped - to be competitive lineup wise eventually. Don't know what their plans are; they seem to be content maintaining the status quo at the moment.

Verizon's statement today outlines the addition of 25 or more HDs starting in July as the analogs are phased out region by region.

Do the 9012 Gemstar Test on the CBS Digtial Host
Do the VBI Search during a Guide download period.

How to find out if the SONY is in a download period.
1) Tune to CBS Digital
1) 9012 Gemstart test screen
3) Make sure VBI packets are increasing.
4) Goto Gemstar Diag screens (753159852) menu
5) Goto ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen and verify TVG packets are increasing.
6) Goto Section Rception-Slicing 2 screen and in the right column if the Dummy count is increasing it is not a download period.

There are diag screens in GMT time that you can use to figure out the next guide download. They are confusing but the VBIDL screen shows your last download start for various DLIDs. You can use that to know when your unit will download again (remember the upper left corner of these screens has the current time in GMT that you can use. MN is GMT -5hrs now.

Have fun.... and report your results.

Thank you for the clear step by step instructions. I'll give it a try and post my results.

Do the 9012 Gemstar Test on the CBS Digtial Host
Ok - did steps 1-6. Could see VBI packets increasing in both the 9012 G* test screen and G* Diag ATSC-ATSC Slicer screens while tuned to 4.1, but, right column of Dummy in Slicing 2 screen was increasing so it isn't a DL period.

Next went to VBIDL screen - there were quite a few timers, I assume the one I'm interested in is:

DLTimer 6/ 6/08 14:46:08

Does this mean I'll be in a DL period at 9:46:08 am CDT today?
I'll try doing the tests again then and see.

But wouldn't this DL info be for the current Host channel? Should all channels in my area be DL at the same time? Or, is this when the currently tuned channel is telling the Sony the next DL will occur? I guess the last makes the most sense. I should know in an hour.

Ok - did steps 1-6. Could see VBI packets increasing in both the 9012 G* test screen and G* Diag ATSC-ATSC Slicer screens while tuned to 4.1, but, right column of Dummy in Slicing 2 screen was increasing so it isn't a DL period.

Next went to VBIDL screen - there were quite a few timers, I assume the one I'm interested in is:

DLTimer 6/ 6/08 14:46:08

Does this mean I'll be in a DL period at 9:46:08 am CDT today?
I'll try doing the tests again then and see.

But wouldn't this DL info be for the current Host channel? Should all channels in my area be DL at the same time? Or, is this when the currently tuned channel is telling the Sony the next DL will occur? I guess the last makes the most sense. I should know in an hour.

It does not pertain to the current tuned channel. It is when the current host is going download again. I assumed you are using CBS analog for your host an would have the same download schedule as the CBS digital. If you are using another network host channel the download schedule might be different (espesically if that host channel is on a older TVGOS version). That is a good research project for you. If you just leave you DVR after doing the steps above and don't change channel, it will download the guide from the digital CBS channel while it is turned on. After the download, you can look at the schedule and see if it is different.

It does not pertain to the current tuned channel. It is when the current host is going download again. I assumed you are using CBS analog for your host an would have the same download schedule as the CBS digital. If you are using another network host channel the download schedule might be different (espesically if that host channel is on a older TVGOS version). That is a good research project for you. If you just leave you DVR after doing the steps above and don't change channel, it will download the guide from the digital CBS channel while it is turned on. After the download, you can look at the schedule and see if it is different.

Ran tests again - Reception Slicing 2 / Dummy right col still counting so not in DL. Check of VBI DL screen timers shows:

-------------------Earlier---------------Now------
LastClk Set----6/ 6/08 13:23:31---6/ 6/08 14:48:31
LastASetEnd---6/ 4/08 22:24:39---6/ 4/08 22:24:39
Last SrcSt-----6/ 4/08 19:40:33---6/ 4/08 19:40:33
LastSrchEnd---6/ 4/08 19:42:03---6/ 4/08 19:42:03
LastDLStart----6/ 6/08 11:36:31---6/ 6/08 11:36:31
LastDLEnd------------NA-----------------NA
DLTimer--------6/ 6/08 14:46:08---6/ 6/08 15:06:00

On the System-Stats screen:

HostChannel 0:0-4
VBI Channel 0:4-1

Obviously the current host is analog 4, while tuned to 4.1 (and with all analog channels off in the guide) I am seeing VBI packets, and, the clock did update around the time the DLTimer had indicated earlier, but, no DL was occuring.

Edit: On re-reading the end of your last post, I see you say, just leave the DHG turned on and tuned to 4.1 (CBS digital) and it will do its next guide download from that channel. Based on what I'd read previously, the guide only downloaded when the unit was turned off - I suppose that is so it can tune to the Host channel to download guide updates which it couldn't do if you have the unit turned on - however - if the currently tuned channel sends a guide update while turned on, you are saying the DHG will load that - neat.

Ran tests again - Reception Slicing 2 / Dummy right col still counting so not in DL. Check of VBI DL screen timers shows:

-------------------Earlier---------------Now------
LastClk Set----6/ 6/08 13:23:31---6/ 6/08 14:48:31
LastASetEnd---6/ 4/08 22:24:39---6/ 4/08 22:24:39
Last SrcSt-----6/ 4/08 19:40:33---6/ 4/08 19:40:33
LastSrchEnd---6/ 4/08 19:42:03---6/ 4/08 19:42:03
LastDLStart----6/ 6/08 11:36:31---6/ 6/08 11:36:31
LastDLEnd------------NA-----------------NA
DLTimer--------6/ 6/08 14:46:08---6/ 6/08 15:06:00

On the System-Stats screen:

HostChannel 0:0-4
VBI Channel 0:4-1

Obviously the current host is analog 4, while tuned to 4.1 (and with all analog channels off in the guide) I am seeing VBI packets, and, the clock did update around the time the DLTimer had indicated earlier, but, no DL was occuring.

Edit: On re-reading the end of your last post, I see you say, just leave the DHG turned on and tuned to 4.1 (CBS digital) and it will do its next guide download from that channel. Based on what I'd read previously, the guide only downloaded when the unit was turned off - I suppose that is so it can tune to the Host channel to download guide updates which it couldn't do if you have the unit turned on - however - if the currently tuned channel sends a guide update while turned on, you are saying the DHG will load that - neat.

To get the guide downloading to start while the box is on, you have to do the 9012 menu Gemstar factory test on the guide channel. If you change channels the VBI guide download is aborted.

Note - your box will preform slowly while the VBI packets are being parsed during a download.

To get the guide downloading to start while the box is on, you have to do the 9012 menu Gemstar factory test on the guide channel. If you change channels the VBI guide download is aborted.

Note - your box will preform slowly while the VBI packets are being parsed during a download.

Does the G* 9012 test have to stay running until a download occurs?
I'd done one earlier today prior to doing the other checks you listed and not changed the channel since.
I've done the G* 9012 test again and left it running.

Does the G* 9012 test have to stay running until a download occurs?
I'd done one earlier today prior to doing the other checks you listed and not changed the channel since.
I've done the G* 9012 test again and left it running.
The test screen times out after 10min or less, but the test keeps running in the back ground until a channel change occurs. You can watch the other Diag screen counts increase during the download like channel lineup packets, zipcode packets, etc...

Do the 9012 Gemstar Test on the CBS Digtial Host
Do the VBI Search during a Guide download period.

6) Goto Section Rception-Slicing 2 screen and in the right column if the Dummy count is increasing it is not a download period.

Have fun.... and report your results.

Did the tests again and dummy wasn't counting, so, I tried the VBI Search Current Channel.

Now the 9012 G* Diag reports Host as blank and VBI as ffffffd (I'm still watching 4.1).

Now Dummy is counting again.

Did the tests again and dummy wasn't counting, so, I tried the VBI Search Current Channel.

Now the 9012 G* Diag reports Host as blank and VBI as ffffffd (I'm still watching 4.1).

Now Dummy is counting again.

That is a good that the Host is blank. That means the guide information on the Digtial channel was detected. It always goes to blank and then the next time it if off for a download it will fill in. Now you just want it to fill in with the digital channel. Remember it perfers analog, so if it happens to find that it will go with analog host. Did you remove all the analog host channels from the SONY's channel list?

If you search for my post here you will see that ffffffd is what I think is the bug with digital guide system operation. If you look at you last clock set channel now it will also be ffffffd . I bet that is what the new TVGOS firmware update would have resolved.

That is a good that the Host is blank. That means the guide information on the Digtial channel was detected. It always goes to blank and then the next time it if off for a download it will fill in. Now you just want it to fill in with the digital channel. Remember it perfers analog, so if it happens to find that it will go with analog host. Did you remove all the analog host channels from the SONY's channel list?Yes
If you search for my post here you will see that ffffffd is what I think is the bug with digital guide system operation. If you look at you last clock set channel now it will also be ffffffd . I bet that is what the new TVGOS firmware update would have resolved.I didn't notice ffffffd anywhere else. Where do I need to look for clock set channel?
If it is ffffffd does that mean I need to load new firmware first?

I finally got around to updating my firmware. I was able to do it with a 512 MB compact flash card using a USB adapter. Based on this I think as long as the drive is FAT32 and the files are there you should be able to use any ol' flash drive.

Yes
I didn't notice ffffffd anywhere else. Where do I need to look for clock set channel?
If it is ffffffd does that mean I need to load new firmware first?

I was talking about the TVGOS version that is not released any where only talked about by Genstar.

Clock set channel is on the bottom of one of the diagnostic screen in TVGuide.

I was talking about the TVGOS version that is not released any where only talked about by Genstar.

Clock set channel is on the bottom of one of the diagnostic screen in TVGuide.

Well, this morning the Host is back to 0:0-4 (even though VBI is still 0:4-1).
I'd shut the unit off overnight (after noting that Host was blank and VBI ffffffd) keeping it tuned to 4.1.

The DL appears to have occured at 11:37:43 (6:37) this morning, a little over a minute later than yesterday morning. I have all analog channels surpressed (I get guide data only for digital channels). I was hoping it would select 4.1 as Host this morning, but, I guess I'll have to try running the VBI Search Current Channel tomorrow morning at 6:37 or so.

Is that right?

I was talking about the TVGOS version that is not released any where only talked about by Genstar.

Clock set channel is on the bottom of one of the diagnostic screen in TVGuide.
Found it - on the second screen of clocks (first shows DST and when it will next be reset). Both the ClkSetFail and ClkSet were set to 0:0-4

I am rarely home at 6am but made a point of being here this morning. The diags Friday had shown LastDLStart at 11:36:31 and on Saturday at 11:37 something, so, I was ready at 6:20, (DVR was still set to 4.1 CBS digital) ran the 9012 VBI test, and checked ATSC Slicer and Section Reception Silicing screen 2 to see that VBI packets were counting, then looked at the VBIDL screen only to see that the LastDLStart had already occured! It said 6/8/08 11:16:xx - I checked the Host and it was still set to 0:0-4 and VBI was 0:4-1. Needless to say, I wasn't happy to have missed this shot. Noting that DLTimer was saying 11:41:xx I waited until 6:40 then did the VBI Search Current Channel. Now Host is blank and VBI is again ffffffd (and ClkSet is 0:0-4).

Is there another way to get this switched to downloading from CBS digital? Or, a way to get the download time moved to later in the day? With my schedule, having it download between 6 and 7 am just doesn't work for me to be there to try and get the timing right for running the VBI Search.

At least I know it is seeing VBI packets from CBS digital. I suppose when the analog stations go off-air it will start using the digital host.

.... Or, a way to get the download time moved to later in the day?....If you look at Spiff's FAQ (link in 1st post), you will see that each type of download occurs 4 different times per day. You might try leaving the RF input disconnected until just before your desired download time.

Hi,

Did any one know if Sony discontinued making remote controls for the DHG-HDD 250/500? I have a 250 model that I purchased extended warranty from best buy. The remote control scroll key broke. I called in to get replacement. They first sent an email telling me it is back ordered. Today, another email came saying it is no longer available. Is that true? If it is, what are my options to get the warranty coverage?

Thanks,

Jane

Hi,

Did any one know if Sony discontinued making remote controls for the DHG-HDD 250/500? I have a 250 model that I purchased extended warranty from best buy. The remote control scroll key broke. I called in to get replacement. They first sent an email telling me it is back ordered. Today, another email came saying it is no longer available. Is that true? If it is, what are my options to get the warranty coverage?

Thanks,

Jane

Sonys' ServicePlus shows it in stock for 34$. Under Quick parts search type in RM-Y823 in part number:

https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/sony-parts.aspx

If you look at Spiff's FAQ (link in 1st post), you will see that each type of download occurs 4 different times per day. You might try leaving the RF input disconnected until just before your desired download time.
I'm aware of that, however, if it is sucessful downloading at a particular time, I don't think it will download again at the later times. That is, if it fully downloads the updates to the day 1 schedule and the new day 8 schedule at 6:30am today, it probably doesn't try to download again until 6:30am tomorrow. Otherwise, it would seem if you looked in the diags later in the day, it would indicate the most recient of the 4 daily download times, not the same last download time all day. I think there being 4 download times daily is mainly so there are fall back times if the download is incomplete or unsuccessful initially.

However, I suppose that I could force the issue by disconnecting the antenna so it can't download at 6:30am then reconnect it later. That would force the next download time to be used. But would that time again be used 24 hrs later, or, would it again be back to downloading at 6:30am.

It sure would be nice if "Force Host Channel" really did.

Hi,

Did any one know if Sony discontinued making remote controls for the DHG-HDD 250/500?


usually some on ebay

Hi,

Did any one know if Sony discontinued making remote controls for the DHG-HDD 250/500? I have a 250 model that I purchased extended warranty from best buy. The remote control scroll key broke. I called in to get replacement. They first sent an email telling me it is back ordered. Today, another email came saying it is no longer available. Is that true? If it is, what are my options to get the warranty coverage?

Thanks,

Jane
You can try here too. $32.95

http://www.dvdremotecontrols.com/Mfrs/Sony/SonyDSS/RM-Y823.htm

You can try here too. $32.95

http://www.dvdremotecontrols.com/Mfrs/Sony/SonyDSS/RM-Y823.htm

of course, these suggestions don't solve the problem that it is BB that owes her the fix!

(that's also where I got my unit WITH a warranty...)

of course, these suggestions don't solve the problem that it is BB that owes her the fix!

(that's also where I got my unit WITH a warranty...)

Actually it does help her, Servicesplus is sony, BB is flat out lying to her.

Actually it does help her, Servicesplus is sony, BB is flat out lying to her.

yes to both statements...but does that help her get her warranty coverage?

(as I said, I'm curious, because I would be in the same position if something broke...I've always wondered what these retail stores that provide warranties would really do)

I would think if she is able to bring in proof to BB that Sony still sells it through a consumer retail channel it arms her with the information necessary to take to higher ups if she has issues at the store level. BB may not be lying. It may be a case of the channel they go through to get parts has discontinued distribution of this particular part. If she brings in a print out of the page to the store, a reasonable manager should be willing to reimburse her the cost or even order it for her through the consumer channel.

That's why I use a learning remote with mine.

I set the HDD250 back up and all seemed well until about an hour later, this popped up:

http://dp70.dyndns.org/tmp/hdd250_hderror.jpg

Going to try a format from the service menu, but since I never wrote to the disk ever, I am worried that some sort of anti-tamper mechanism was activated by connecting a disk other than the one blessed at manufacturing. :(

(You gotta love that weather caption... "NOT AS COLD, 14 DEGREES")

Did a reset to factory defaults and that completely killed the unit. It will not boot up now and displays only 0206 ERR 200FF80. Fortunately, I know what that code means. It means "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I came home and saw the "Hard DIsk error" message, reset the unit. and now I got the 0206 ERR 200FF80. What should I do now? Please help.

Mark, thanks for your quick reply! I am going to try your method out and report result back to the forum.

When this happened to mine, I was able to recover by doing the front panel service menu Wipe Unit procedure documented in section 1.2.8 of the ...... FAQ. (It took me much longer though since the procedure wasn't in the FAQ yet - I had to figure it out from scratch.)

For most devices I use cablecards. There's always one that's set up for clearQAM and OTA. Since November many brands have been unable to tune the local HDs from VHO8-Philadelphia. All OK with an LG receiver. Everything OK but local HDs with the Sony DVRs and SXRD XBR1, same vintage. The problem supposedly has been malformed PSIP data that is closer to following terrestrial rules than those for cable. Some devices can handle it. Some not. Verizon's most recent ETA for a fix was mid July. 8 months!

With the 1.2.09 Sony, I did a scan (setup) yesterday. I was surprised to find that the locals were back, now at their OTA equivalents for both the HDs and SD subs. I have never seen this before with either Verizon or Comcast clearQAM. Only difference from OTA is KYW which is at 26.1, not 3.1, though this may be both their logical and physical channel in the future. The TV built 10/05 still can't find the local HDs. The LG receiver displays them as they were - WPVI HD at 73.146 etc. This suggests that these 2 devices are having difficulties resolving the PSIP data.

My question is whether the resolution of PSIP data is a function of Sony's software or Gemstar's. Until yesterday's difference, the QAM and ATSC tuners of the DVRs and TV have behaved identically; in display and otherwise. The TV has not had a software/firmware update since purchase 11/05. It doesn't have TVGOS.

Verizon Phila.s PSIP probably remains a work in progress. Puzzling nevertheless.

I am hoping that when the local PBS Analogue dies next Feb............the local CBS digital, will "automatically", make my Sony HDD500 work, after a few days of sleeping.

Is that a true assumption? I am really too lazy to change anything now.

I think we're all hoping that that is true...:)

Initial review of the TR-40/DTV Pal...perhaps some hope for continued use of the HDD250/500?

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/138485-first-look-dish-networks-dtvpal-digital-converter.html

Initial review of the TR-40/DTV Pal...perhaps some hope for continued use of the HDD250/500?

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/138485-first-look-dish-networks-dtvpal-digital-converter.htmlSeems like more of nothing concrete there. The key that is still missing is... does the freakin' box convert digital TVGOS to analog (VBI) TVGOS or doesn't it? If not, it would be silly to imply that a TVGOS device might want to control the DVDPal (i.e. tune it to a channel at a particular time) because after Feb '09 any TVGOS device that needs a converter box in the first place is going to be a paperweight. So far, no straight answer. Seems downright bizarre to see all this talk of TVGOS about a box that reportedly scans PSIP's to get its guide (but maybe not!). Tick, tick, tick... the countdown continues.

at the very bottom of the DTVPal review, i.e., BELOW the screen shots, is the part of the users manual for setting up the DTVPal to provide TVGOS listings to ANALOG devices that use TV Guide, including using g-link and having the TV Guide-using device essentially treat the DTVPal like a cable box

does anyone know whether this has any applicability to use with a digital device (like the Sony or the LG-3410a)? Obviously one doesn't want to be using the converted output from the DVTPal, but It seems to me that the g-link would just be changing the channel on the DTVPal, so it seems like the listings must be going along with the converted channel when the DTVPal in in standby mode or somethng

I've been studying all the information available hard guys, and I can't tell anything definite as far as applying it to the Sony.

It does appear to be able to convert the digital signal to analog though, because the guide in the recorder apparently keeps getting info.

The only thing I know for sure is that the G-link out from the Sony will not be able to change channels on the DTVPal, because the DTVPal uses a code for a Scientific Atlantic cable box, and the Sony can only control the record function from a VCR.

The IR blasters from the LG 3410A, and also other SD HDD/DVD recorders, are very likely to have the code, though. Of course, it will only be able to record from the DTVPal in SD. But I can't be sure of anything yet with the Sony, when setting recordings using it's own guide from it's own, internal tuner.

at the very bottom of the DTVPal review, i.e., BELOW the screen shots, is the part of the users manual for setting up the DTVPal to provide TVGOS listings to ANALOG devices that use TV Guide, including using g-link and having the TV Guide-using device essentially treat the DTVPal like a cable box

does anyone know whether this has any applicability to use with a digital device (like the Sony or the LG-3410a)? Obviously one doesn't want to be using the converted output from the DVTPal, but It seems to me that the g-link would just be changing the channel on the DTVPal, so it seems like the listings must be going along with the converted channel when the DTVPal in in standby mode or somethngAfter reading these pages (thanks avnstf for pointing them out), I would conclude that, clever though it may be, the DTVPal's converted TVGOS signal will be useless for the purpose of keeping the Sony's guide updated in such a way that it can record programs through its own digital tuner. It could only do that if its converted TVGOS signal were an exact unmodified replica of the digitally broadcast TVGOS signal, which it clearly is not.

After reading these pages (thanks avnstf for pointing them out), I would conclude that, clever though it may be, the DTVPal's converted TVGOS signal will be useless for the purpose of keeping the Sony's guide updated in such a way that it can record programs through its own digital tuner. It could only do that if its converted TVGOS signal were an exact unmodified replica of the digitally broadcast TVGOS signal, which it clearly is not.

if the TVGOS data from the DTVPal works for the setup specified in its user manual for analog DVD recorders and such, why should it not work for the Sony (if it needs it), since it presently gets its data from an analog broadcast? (I realize now that the g-link part is irrelevant...)

just curious...

if the TVGOS data from the DTVPal works for the setup specified in its user manual for analog DVD recorders and such, why should it not work for the Sony (if it needs it), since it presently gets its data from an analog broadcast? (I realize now that the g-link part is irrelevant...)

just curious...Because the DTVPal is remapping all the digital channels to fake analog channels and forcing you to tell the TVGOS device to control a cable box. If you toss out the irrelevant g-link part (because the Sony CAN'T control a cable box, nor would it want to) what you would end up with is a TVGOS listing on the Sony that lists only a bunch of analog channels (none of which are real) that map (in the DTVPal's mind, anyway) to the OTA digital channels in your area. I suppose, for those channels, you could manually and laboriously go through and change their channel designations to the actual digital channels (though it's not clear they would "stick"), but for those who have cable but can't get the guide over cable, the listings would not include any cable channels (because the DTVPal can't be tuned to a cable channel.)

The killer here is that the DTVPal is targeting "analog only" TVGOS devices, and our Sony's do not fall into that category. In fact, a TVGOS device that can tune digital channels (and thus make use of the digital channels in the guide) but receives the guide itself via analog is quite the anomaly.

I think we need to re-focus on WhatHappened's CBS digital guide experiments. But until someone can prevent the Sony from receiving analog stations (or until they go silent), there appears to be no way to know if the Sony will latch onto and hold onto the digital guide signal. Where I am, PBS analog is received on 12, 23, and 52, so I have no hope of filtering them all out and still leave the CBS digital signal on 26. Perhaps somewhere in America someone has only one PBS station and it's on VHF-LO and could be easily filtered out.

I think we need to re-focus on WhatHappened's CBS digital guide experiments. But until someone can prevent the Sony from receiving analog stations (or until they go silent), there appears to be no way to know if the Sony will latch onto and hold onto the digital guide signal. Where I am, PBS analog is received on 12, 23, and 52, so I have no hope of filtering them all out and still leave the CBS digital signal on 26. Perhaps somewhere in America someone has only one PBS station and it's on VHF-LO and could be easily filtered out.

I think that Houston might be a good candidate. We have one PBS station (analog CH 8) and our local CBS station is set up for TVGOS via DTV (KHOU DTV braodcasts on analog CH 31). A VHF filter chould be used to elminate the PBS signal. Digital PBS would be lost as that is broadcast on analog channel 9.

I've tested my DHG with the KHOU DTV signal and was able to get the clock to set. The Sony found the PBS signal too quickly to test actual guide data.

If someone is willing to donate a VHF filter or point me to a good low cost one I could try an experimient to see if my DHG will detect and get guide data from the CBS DTV channel.

-phil

Phil B that sounds like a great idea (way too complex for me tho). Perhaps we can call PBS, and just ask them to turn everything off for a week. I am sure they would agree, hahahaha.

Does anyone know much about this new Sony LCD panel 2008 32"XBR6 that has the TV Guide built in. Is it a digital TV Guide? ready to receive the CBS Digital out of the box new? Or does it still have the analogue Guide download system? Since this is a brand new LCD set, I figured why bother with the old ananlogue download since it is really history anyway?

I think that Houston might be a good candidate.
If someone is willing to donate a VHF filter or point me to a good low cost one I could try an experimient to see if my DHG will detect and get guide data from the CBS DTV channel.
-philHere's one that claims 23dB VHF rejection and it's cheap. No telling if that's enough to make CH 8 unusable. If you're in a strong signal area, you might have to attenuate the antenna input somewhat before the filter. But this does sound like the ideal experiment to ring out this issue.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

Keep in mind that analog Ch26 (KRIV Fox) also transmits TVGOS.

kwg, thanks forgot about that............like I said way too much for me. I will just do a song and a dance next March and hope for the best. It's called the DHG-HDD rain dance.

Keep in mind that analog Ch26 (KRIV Fox) also transmits TVGOS.

I didn't know that. I've never seen either of my DHGs pick up 26 as host channel. Perhaps it scans in order and stops at the first channel it finds.

-phil

Yeah, there's 4 or 5 stations here that I know of carrying the signal. Or at least there used to be. I know 3 for sure still are, because I can get it from them all - the CBS and the 2 PBS channels (2, 11 and 20). I don't know if FOX and ABC still are, though (32 and 7).

I think that Houston might be a good candidate. We have one PBS station (analog CH 8) and our local CBS station is set up for TVGOS via DTV (KHOU DTV braodcasts on analog CH 31). A VHF filter chould be used to elminate the PBS signal. Digital PBS would be lost as that is broadcast on analog channel 9.

I've tested my DHG with the KHOU DTV signal and was able to get the clock to set. The Sony found the PBS signal too quickly to test actual guide data.

If someone is willing to donate a VHF filter or point me to a good low cost one I could try an experimient to see if my DHG will detect and get guide data from the CBS DTV channel.

-phil

I would venture a guess that if it doesn't work, we would have to leave these units tuned to digital CBS when we are not otherwise using them.

I left my tuner tuned to the Denver digital signal and I have a UHF antenna with an amplifier so I don't pick up PBS analog.

I have nothing , not even the clock is working currently.

I left my tuner tuned to the Denver digital signal and I have a UHF antenna with an amplifier so I don't pick up PBS analog.

I have nothing , not even the clock is working currently.

have you previously had your unit working or is this a new problem?

I was able to find a UHF/VHF combiner at Fry's (in a satellite combiner box, it looks like someone had pulled a fast one on Fry's by switching boxes). I hooked up my antenna to the UHF terminal and hooked the line terminal up to my DHG-500. I was still able to get a snowy image from analog 8 (PBS), but digital PBS was a no-go so the combiner was filtering the VHF signal partially.

I then ran a G* Factory Test on analog 8 (PBS), analog 26 (FOX), and digital 11.1 (CBS). Analog PBS failed the VBI test - so the combiner was able to filter out the PBS signal. Analog FOX passed the VBI test but the packet count was slow - less than one per second. Digital CBS passed the VBI test with about 2 packets per second, as I had seen before.

Previously, I have used the G* Factory Test to set the clock from the Digital CBS feed, but I have never tried to download guide data. Last night before I went to sleep I ran the VBI Search Current Channel test while tuned to 11-1 (CBS digital). The 753159852 menu showed 11-1 as the host channel, so things were looking good. I left the DHG off overnight. This morning, I had guide data for next Friday (day 8) and 11-1 is still marked as the host channel.

From this I would say that KHOU-DT is set up for digital TVGOS delivery and my DHG is able to recived data from the digital channel. I'll leave the filter on for a couple of days to see if the host channel changes to analog channel 26 or channel 8.

-phil

Last night before I went to sleep I ran the VBI Search Current Channel test while tuned to 11-1 (CBS digital). The 753159852 menu showed 11-1 as the host channel, so things were looking good. I left the DHG off overnight. This morning, I had guide data for next Friday (day 8) and 11-1 is still marked as the host channel.

From this I would say that KHOU-DT is set up for digital TVGOS delivery and my DHG is able to recived data from the digital channel. I'll leave the filter on for a couple of days to see if the host channel changes to analog channel 26 or channel 8.

-phil

I think this is a very significant test with an encouraging result. The fact that after turning off the unit overnight and getting the download, your digital channel 11-1 was still the host channel is a first. I believe this bodes well for us for next February.

I think this is a very significant test with an encouraging result. The fact that after turning off the unit overnight and getting the download, your digital channel 11-1 was still the host channel is a first. I believe this bodes well for us for next February.

Not a first for digital but maybe for 11-1. I had a digtial channel as the host for about a week in MN on CBS digital 4-1.

I was able to find a UHF/VHF combiner at Fry's (in a satellite combiner box, it looks like someone had pulled a fast one on Fry's by switching boxes). I hooked up my antenna to the UHF terminal and hooked the line terminal up to my DHG-500. I was still able to get a snowy image from analog 8 (PBS), but digital PBS was a no-go so the combiner was filtering the VHF signal partially.

I then ran a G* Factory Test on analog 8 (PBS), analog 26 (FOX), and digital 11.1 (CBS). Analog PBS failed the VBI test - so the combiner was able to filter out the PBS signal. Analog FOX passed the VBI test but the packet count was slow - less than one per second. Digital CBS passed the VBI test with about 2 packets per second, as I had seen before.

Previously, I have used the G* Factory Test to set the clock from the Digital CBS feed, but I have never tried to download guide data. Last night before I went to sleep I ran the VBI Search Current Channel test while tuned to 11-1 (CBS digital). The 753159852 menu showed 11-1 as the host channel, so things were looking good. I left the DHG off overnight. This morning, I had guide data for next Friday (day 8) and 11-1 is still marked as the host channel.

From this I would say that KHOU-DT is set up for digital TVGOS delivery and my DHG is able to recived data from the digital channel. I'll leave the filter on for a couple of days to see if the host channel changes to analog channel 26 or channel 8.

-phil

Kewl, so next March I do nothing and my Sony Box for Houston will fix itself!

Kewl, so next March I do nothing and my Sony Box for Houston will fix itself!

On Feb 17, 2009 you may have to initiate a VBI Search Current Channel on 11-1 as I don't know how automatically the DHG searches for a new host channel when the current one disappears.

It will also be a good idea to rescan for channels on the antenna input as (most of) the analog channels will be gone.

-phil

On Feb 17, 2009 you may have to initiate a VBI Search Current Channel on 11-1 as I don't know how automatically the DHG searches for a new host channel when the current one disappears.

It will also be a good idea to rescan for channels on the antenna input as (most of) the analog channels will be gone.

-philAnd many of the digital channels will move to different frequencies.

On Feb 17, 2009 you may have to initiate a VBI Search Current Channel on 11-1 as I don't know how automatically the DHG searches for a new host channel when the current one disappears.

It will also be a good idea to rescan for channels on the antenna input as (most of) the analog channels will be gone.

-phil

According to Sony engineer, the unit will automatically scan for that channel after three days of no data. After analog shutoff, some digital channels will shift to a lower frequency. I wonder if they will announce the shift in advance? Also I assume those stations will transmit on both frequencies to provide overlap for a while. Definitely will need to do scan then.

Ray

Thanks PhilFrankRayB701938 (like the way I did that?),

Yep I sort of counted on rescanning all the TV's etc in the house then. Hope I don't have to do much re-work on the Antenna. The roofers smashed it flat in the attic years ago and it is way too hard to get too, it's also no longer pointing in the right direction. We lost digital 52 and when that happen, and made one of the others very weak (will not stay on in heavy storms). But the low analogue VHF 2 and 8 still seem strong.

Will Sony send that engineer to my house, if it don't work? It's only 3 years old+, I think it has lifetime warranty?

have you previously had your unit working or is this a new problem?

Well I had it working when I had cable setup. However the OTA for Denver is starting to get a boost and the CBS affilate in digital is the best signal now.

I had read earlier in the thread that Denver KCNC (cbs) was working in digital and I was wondering if something changed?

My daughter complained that her 500 unit was getting incomplete guide data - some days partial data and others none. I checked with another thread member and he was receiving full data, so I knew the problem was in her DVR. Since I was there for the weekend, I was able to confirm the problem and eliminate it. The guide channel in her area is 8, but instead the unit showed fffff. Since it was my daughter's unit, I didn't want to do anything to make the problem worse, such as losing the clock. I performed the TV guide test on cable channel 8, and it passed so I decided to leave the test running. When I checked back later, channel 8 was playing. I rechecked the guide channel and saw cable channel 8. I did that on Thursday, and Sunday morning the guide was fully populated.
This method may have been posted before but didn't find it in Spiff.

Ray

I use my HDD 500's to get clear QAM channels from cable. Comcast occasionally changes the channel #'s for their clear QAM channels. I need to rescan for these channels but have forgotten how to do so. My Sony manual is of no help and I couldn't find that info in Spiff's FAQ section.

Can anyone tell me how to do such a rescan?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Can anyone tell me how to do such a rescan?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Page 41 in manual

Page 41 in manual


Thanks - I've had these for 18 months and never found that option. After I made my post I did a user configration reset which allowed me to do a autoscan athough it wiped out my guide on one(only) of my two 500's.

Hi,

I picked up a Sony DHG-HDD250 a while back and found out that the digital tuner in it doesn't work. It also rattles a bit inside the case. I was wondering if anyone knew if Sony would do repair on it (I don't have a warranty on it), if I paid them? It would be nice to get it working again.

Analog tuner works fine. TV Guide populates fine. It records fine to the hard drive. It's the digital tuner that doesn't work.

If not Sony, perhaps a local electronic repair shop? What costs do you think they'd charge (Sony or local shop)?

Thanks.

I've had a good bit of difficulty with tiling through FiOS on a TiVo Series3 and a Toshiba Tv; both with cablecard QAM tuners. It has been mostly episodic but a few of the worst stretches have lasted weeks before my VHO and/or CO have regained control of the signals. The tuners in Sony TV and DVRs are much more resistant to off signals, but not immune. The problems vary with channel and frequency when I have seen mosaic tiling through the Sony DVRs - particularly on the ESPN HDs in my case. I would be surprised if there isn't another bad stretch ahead when Verizon adds new channels later this year.

Some advice should you ever encounter tiling/pixelation or macroblocking:

---Pay close attention to your antenna setup. A distribution amp I've had for a long time was impacting QAM tuning when the VZ signal levels were too high on certain channels. With the combination, it appeared in diagnostics that the signals were too low (very low SS and SNR or nothing at all registered). In fact the opposite was the case. With antenna coax detached, the signal levels on problem channels were pegged at 100; signal to noise ratios at 37 (high).

---Insert an attenuator between cable input and coax feed. 8db should be enough. I haven't found anything off but high levels. 8db attenuation hasn't disturbed tuning at all on the rest of the channels. [value of cable signal level in Sony system menu is all but worthless as I've seen only "88%" in 2.5 years of use, except when using attenuator]

Fortunately this is rarely an issue with the Sonys. When it occurs though, it is very annoying.

If not Sony, perhaps a local electronic repair shop? What costs do you think they'd charge (Sony or local shop)?

Thanks.

Sony Repair is the ONLY ANSWER.

Previously, I have used the G* Factory Test to set the clock from the Digital CBS feed, but I have never tried to download guide data. Last night before I went to sleep I ran the VBI Search Current Channel test while tuned to 11-1 (CBS digital). The 753159852 menu showed 11-1 as the host channel, so things were looking good. I left the DHG off overnight. This morning, I had guide data for next Friday (day 8) and 11-1 is still marked as the host channel.


UPDATE:

I have now had the splitter inline with the DHG input for one week and for that whole week CBS digital (11-1) has been the TVGOS host channel according to the 753159852 menu. The TVGOS schedule is complete up to next Friday.

Next I will remove the splitter and see how long it takes for PBS analog to return as the host channel.

-phil

UPDATE:

I have now had the splitter inline with the DHG input for one week and for that whole week CBS digital (11-1) has been the TVGOS host channel according to the 753159852 menu. The TVGOS schedule is complete up to next Friday.

Next I will remove the splitter and see how long it takes for PBS analog to return as the host channel.

-philThanks Phil...I'll give this a try with my HDD500 this weekend.

I am having an odd issue with my HDD250 since I upgraded to the .13 firmware. If I am watching one of the digital channels that I receive via clear QAM with Dolby Digital turned on the audio is great and works fine. If I switch to an analog channel and then switch back to a digital channel DD audio stops working. If I turn DD off the audio then works again, but only 2.0 stereo. In order to get the DD to work again I have to do a soft reset. I didn't have this issue before I upgraded the firmware. This happens regardless of what digital channel I am watching. I have the HDD250 connected to my receiver using HDMI currently. I am going to try switching to component and optical this weekend to see if I get the same result.

Has anyone else had this issue?

UPDATE:

I have now had the splitter inline with the DHG input for one week and for that whole week CBS digital (11-1) has been the TVGOS host channel according to the 753159852 menu. The TVGOS schedule is complete up to next Friday.

Next I will remove the splitter and see how long it takes for PBS analog to return as the host channel.

-phil
Phil

Ok, sorry for the stupid question, but.........

Can you please got into a bit more detail as to how exactly you're using this splitter?

Thanks

Phil

Ok, sorry for the stupid question, but.........

Can you please got into a bit more detail as to how exactly you're using this splitter?

Thanks

I'm using a UHF/VHF joiner in reverse to split the antenna singal and filter out the VHF channels. This allows me to eliminate the PBS analog signal at the DHG input so that TVGOS has to come from some other channel.

-phil

I might want to try that just to test, but that wouldn't go over too well here to use regularly until 2/'09, because we've got digital channels in both ranges. In fact, the digital host channel is the only one currently on VHF-LO, and all the others are on UHF. So that's definitely out.

Good to know it's been working so far, though. Hope it keeps up.

I just emailed Sony and received this. I don't know if this has already been posted. If so, sorry.

"Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I'm glad to assist you with the TV guide information for your Sony Digital Video Recorder. The TV Guide On Screen information is transmitted with the analog channels. If all the analog channels are removed from the channel lineup, then the TV Guide On Screen information will not be received. I suggest that you contact your cable service provider for further information in this regard.

Thank you for choosing Sony.

The Sony Email Response Team
C623
Gary"


Has anyone else received this info?

OTA digital after Feb 9 2009 won't work?

That isn't what he is saying. He is talking about how the cable works, OTA digital transmits the guide information with the digital channel stream. Think about it, if you only get one channel, don't you expect to see the guide information for it? Cable has an entire lineup of services coming over one wire, so in order to supply fast internet, digital TV, and Analog TV, doesn't it make sense that they had to get a little creative?
They all have different carrier frequencies on cable.

OTA digital after Feb 9 2009 won't work?

That isn't what he is saying. He is talking about how the cable works, OTA digital transmits the guide information with the digital channel stream. Think about it, if you only get one channel, don't you expect to see the guide information for it? Cable has an entire lineup of services coming over one wire, so in order to supply fast internet, digital TV, and Analog TV, doesn't it make sense that they had to get a little creative?
They all have different carrier frequencies on cable.

You don't know what you are talking about. The guide information sent over the air has all the local cable lineups included. The TVGOS guide information is carried independent of the cable companies guide system. The digital guide information is carried in the MPEG2 stream and can be passed by the cable company even if the send the over the air channel on a different frequency on the cable system. I have verified that my cable company Mediacom passes the digital guide information from the over the air digital CBS channel.

I'm glad to assist you with the TV guide information for your Sony Digital Video Recorder. The TV Guide On Screen information is transmitted with the analog channels. If all the analog channels are removed from the channel lineup, then the TV Guide On Screen information will not be received. I suggest that you contact your cable service provider for further information in this regard.


Sony first line support knows just about nothing about their products internals. I and others have conclusively proved the Sony DVR receives and processes digital TVGOS information.

A lot of these posts remind me of a chicken little saying "the sky is falling".

be nice (please)

Hope for the best and plan for the worst, WhatHappend. As far as what I can read, it's still up in the air as far as support after the switch. I'm not discrediting your research, or anyone else's for that matter. What I am questioning is Sony's support for a dead product. I'd rather not be left with thousand dollar brick, no matter how many flashy lights it displays.

As far as the first line with Sony, I figured that much. That's why I came poking around here and posted my response from Sony, to see what everyone thought.

I have now had the splitter inline with the DHG input for one week and for that whole week CBS digital (11-1) has been the TVGOS host channel according to the 753159852 menu. The TVGOS schedule is complete up to next Friday.

Wow! That's the best sign yet that our Sonys won't turn into pumpkins, er, doorstops, next February.

On a different subject, I noticed today that a bunch of new channels had appeared at the bottom of my TVGOS listings. I'm OTA only, and most of these looked like new subchannels for stations in the area my guide covers, plus digital channels for stations that were previously represented only by analog channels, plus maybe another city (I haven't looked up any of the new callsigns yet). I moved some of them up into my preferred sequence, and turned off the rest.

My TVGOS OTA area apparently includes Charlotte NC, Greenville and Columbia SC, Atlanta and Augusta GA, and Johnson City, Knoxville and Chattanooga TN.

we apparently had a power outage early this AM and it had significant and different effects on our 3 different dvrs.

In the case of our Sony 250, when I turned it on and hit the guide button, the screen that came up was the one to choose which broadcast area I was in...I didn't like the idea of doing that, since that's an INITIAL setup deal, so I turned the Sony off and then on again. It came up with the same thing again, so I went ahead and chose SF and, as you would guess, I had lost all my previous effort to put the channels I wanted at the top because those are the ones we actually watch...had to do it all over again...

what I noticed is that it now lists about 110 channels and subchannels, most of which we don't get (who needs 20 PBS stations, or 5 to 8 of each of the major networks, anyway?)...seems to be a longer list now, and therefore more work to find the ones you want...

I had of course lost my week's TV Guide listings, but it did have 1,2,5,and8 filled in, so hopefully nothing messed up...

(The box that concerned me most was the LG3410a, because it didn't show any lights on, not even the ones when the unit is turned off; unplugging and plugging back in didn't make any difference, so I disconected everything and pulled the box out, thinking I had a real problem, but when I plugged it in to start fiddling with it, the usual standby light came back on, and then a time...I reinstalled it, and it seems to be working again)

We've had a fair number of long and short power outages over the years, but I've never seen the DVRs react this way...maybe the power failure occurred nearby or in such a way that there was some weird transient that freaked out the boxes...who knows?

Sometime during the last week, the TV Guide added about 20 Dallas and Austin stations? Could have been because the power was off for 5 days? Like it was getting multiple information from 3 different zip codes?

So yesterday I deleted the stations from the "listings".

It all still works correctly; just a bunch of bogus stations, that could not be received - but they were all turned "on" in set up?

what I noticed is that it now lists about 110 channels and subchannels, most of which we don't get (who needs 20 PBS stations, or 5 to 8 of each of the major networks, anyway?)...seems to be a longer list now, and therefore more work to find the ones you want..
Yeah I get major network listings (channels listed) here from other cities like LA.

Sometime during the last week, the TV Guide added about 20 Dallas and Austin stations? Could have been because the power was off for 5 days? Like it was getting multiple information from 3 different zip codes?

So yesterday I deleted the stations from the "listings".

It all still works correctly; just a bunch of bogus stations, that could not be received - but they were all turned "on" in set up?

Every time I've reset my guide (with an Austin area zip code), it always pulls in all of the Waco and San Antonio stations...and even a few Houston (which I have picked up once when the weather was just right with my trusty indoor antenna)

I am having an odd issue with my HDD250 since I upgraded to the .13 firmware. If I am watching one of the digital channels that I receive via clear QAM with Dolby Digital turned on the audio is great and works fine. If I switch to an analog channel and then switch back to a digital channel DD audio stops working. If I turn DD off the audio then works again, but only 2.0 stereo. In order to get the DD to work again I have to do a soft reset. I didn't have this issue before I upgraded the firmware. This happens regardless of what digital channel I am watching. I have the HDD250 connected to my receiver using HDMI currently. I am going to try switching to component and optical this weekend to see if I get the same result.

Has anyone else had this issue?

After switching to component and optical the problem seems to be fixed. Still kind of wondering why this occurred so if anyone has any ideas I am still interested.

Did anyone else in MN receiving new channels in the Tvguide updates last week. I had a issue ticket in for HBOHD being the wrong coast (West coast instead of East coast).

Well when the update came through I had to reselect my provider from the list of potential providers in my area. After I did that I lost all my channel ordering and had to hide all the incorrect channels again. But the listing for the channels that lined up were all maintained.

But my locking up when recording issue was back. I didn't feel like doing the TVGOS reset like I did before and was added to the FAQ. I tried another fix. Since the lockup was only during recordings like before, I deleted all the scheduled recordings and recreated them. It fixed the lock up and is a lot easier to do.

If anyone else has this recording lockup issue after the TVGOS new channels added last week, try this easy fix. If we can get a few people to confirm it works the FAQ site can be updated.

The provider issue might be isolated to my provider because the issue ticket was created with my provider's ID from the diagnostic screens.

WhatHappened,
I am OTA only in the Twin Cities and have the LG LST3410A, but I did lose my listings between Wednesday and Sunday.
Listings only came back after I checked the 753159852 menu and found that my host channel had changed to 0x1D, channel 29. So I added that channel to my lineup, which the LG requires.
I did not notice any new channels, but the LG with V7 guide only contains about 140 channel listings and I rarely go into that menu as I am OTA only.

My 500 was working fine... it would record the shows, pause, rewind, ect., except it wouldn't let me watch the shows I recorded if they happened after June 14. So last night I unplugged the unit and let it sit there for a little while to reset it. Now, when I plug it in, it cycles through the welcome on the front of the unit, until it gets to 06. It just hangs there after that. Any suggestions?

My 500 was working fine... it would record the shows, pause, rewind, ect., except it wouldn't let me watch the shows I recorded if they happened after June 14. So last night I unplugged the unit and let it sit there for a little while to reset it. Now, when I plug it in, it cycles through the welcome on the front of the unit, until it gets to 06. It just hangs there after that. Any suggestions?

The 06 Hang usually means - SEND IT TO SONY FOR REPAIR.

I'm sorry to post the bad news.

Previously, I have used the G* Factory Test to set the clock from the Digital CBS feed, but I have never tried to download guide data. Last night before I went to sleep I ran the VBI Search Current Channel test while tuned to 11-1 (CBS digital). The 753159852 menu showed 11-1 as the host channel, so things were looking good. I left the DHG off overnight. This morning, I had guide data for next Friday (day 8) and 11-1 is still marked as the host channel.


UPDATE:

I have now had the splitter inline with the DHG input for one week and for that whole week CBS digital (11-1) has been the TVGOS host channel according to the 753159852 menu. The TVGOS schedule is complete up to next Friday.

Next I will remove the splitter and see how long it takes for PBS analog to return as the host channel.

-phil

UPDATE 2:

I am now on day 13 of digital TVGOS guide data. I've been running for 13 days with my host channel reported as 11-1 (Houston Digital CBS channel).

For the first week the local analog PBS channel was filtered out. For the last 6 days the DHG has been able to receive analog PBS but it has remained on the digital CBS channel for guide data.

By the way, early this week or late last week (can't remember which) my DHG indicated a number of new stations in the guide. Several other AVSers in the Houston area have reported the same occurance, so it appears that CBS is broadcasting the same data as PBS (as expected).

-phil

Did anyone else in MN receiving new channels in the Tvguide updates last week. I had a issue ticket in for HBOHD being the wrong coast (West coast instead of East coast).

Well when the update came through I had to reselect my provider from the list of potential providers in my area. After I did that I lost all my channel ordering and had to hide all the incorrect channels again. But the listing for the channels that lined up were all maintained.

But my locking up when recording issue was back. I didn't feel like doing the TVGOS reset like I did before and was added to the FAQ. I tried another fix. Since the lockup was only during recordings like before, I deleted all the scheduled recordings and recreated them. It fixed the lock up and is a lot easier to do.

If anyone else has this recording lockup issue after the TVGOS new channels added last week, try this easy fix. If we can get a few people to confirm it works the FAQ site can be updated.

The provider issue might be isolated to my provider because the issue ticket was created with my provider's ID from the diagnostic screens.

How do I get the TVGOS update for the new channels? I get my guide data from PBS WHYY analog here and it doesn't give me any guide data for the new HD channels added by Comcast

Coming up next: still more rumors that these DVRs will become worthless after the analog cutoff or require complicated converter box solutions... :rolleyes:

HaHa! My thoughts exactly.

How do I get the TVGOS update for the new channels? I get my guide data from PBS WHYY analog here and it doesn't give me any guide data for the new HD channels added by Comcast

You have to call SONY support. Get transfered to Tier 2 out of Sony's California office. They will need a bunch of information from the TVGuide Diag screens and then they submitted it to TVGuide. If you call TVGuide directly they will inform you that they need a case number from your manufacturer.

That's excellent news, Phil- thanks for the report.

Coming up next: still more rumors that these DVRs will become worthless after the analog cutoff or require complicated converter box solutions... :rolleyes:

So I am not the only one who thinks that. Its like groundhogs day....:confused::confused:

How do I get the TVGOS update for the new channels? I get my guide data from PBS WHYY analog here and it doesn't give me any guide data for the new HD channels added by Comcast

It could simply be that Gemstar does not (yet) have Guide data for all the latest cable-only HD channels. For example, when Comcast in my area added SFI-FI HD at QAM channel 236, it does not appear in the TVGOS data. The easy fix for me was to manually change the channel number in the TVGOS listing from the SFI-FI SD channel at QAM 51 to 236; same data content. Now when I select to view or record SFI-FI, my DHG tunes to 236. Same thing for other HD versions of channels such as USA, A&E, and TBS.

It could simply be that Gemstar does not (yet) have Guide data for all the latest cable-only HD channels. For example, when Comcast in my area added SFI-FI HD at QAM channel 236, it does not appear in the TVGOS data. The easy fix for me was to manually change the channel number in the TVGOS listing from the SFI-FI SD channel at QAM 51 to 236; same data content. Now when I select to view or record SFI-FI, my DHG tunes to 236. Same thing for other HD versions of channels such as USA, A&E, and TBS.

our experience locally is that the program listings for sci-fi differ substantially between the SD and HD channels

same for some of the other channels you mention

It could simply be that Gemstar does not (yet) have Guide data for all the latest cable-only HD channels. For example, when Comcast in my area added SFI-FI HD at QAM channel 236, it does not appear in the TVGOS data. The easy fix for me was to manually change the channel number in the TVGOS listing from the SFI-FI SD channel at QAM 51 to 236; same data content. Now when I select to view or record SFI-FI, my DHG tunes to 236. Same thing for other HD versions of channels such as USA, A&E, and TBS.

I had to do the same for Fox Sports Kansas City. It's really Fox Sports Midwest, but during Royals games, and a few other teams the feed splits. Unfortunately Gemstar doesn't seem to pass data for that so I have to go off of the Midwest channel info, which is usually correct.

UPDATE:

I have now had the splitter inline with the DHG input for one week and for that whole week CBS digital (11-1) has been the TVGOS host channel according to the 753159852 menu. The TVGOS schedule is complete up to next Friday.

Next I will remove the splitter and see how long it takes for PBS analog to return as the host channel.

-philPhilB or WhatHappend... exactly what is the sequence you used for switching the host channel to your local CBS digital channel? My analog host channel is 12, and my digital host channel is 3.1. Both have passed the G* test. I have tried TVGOS Setup codes 963214785 (VBI Search Current Channel in the INFO box), 987789987 (VBI Quick Search Cur Channel in the INFO box), and 369874125 (??? - no change in the INFO box). Under all circumstances, my host channel either stays at 12, or goes blank (only to return to 12 once the box has been off for a few hours.) Under no circumstances can I make the host channel read 3-1. What am I doing wrong? I've also tried running the G* test with 3.1 tuned and then just leaving the box on - the host still sticks to 12 or goes blank.

The only bright spot is that when I tune to 3.1 and run the G* test, the guide DOES get updated, within minutes (instead of hours) of doing that. The remote control functions get very sluggish during this time, but at least if all else fails after Feb 09, I would just have to run the test once a day.

our experience locally is that the program listings for sci-fi differ substantially between the SD and HD channels

same for some of the other channels you mention

I don't doubt you for second, but that's really strange. The program content for these simultaneous HD/SD Comcast cable channels in my area are absolutely identical. I suppose there's some "logical" explanation somewhere.

I just bought a demo model from a local store for $10. Yes I know great great deal. But how do I get it out of demo mode? This thing is driving me nuts. I want to delete the SXRD demo and the Coming Soon to DVD demos. I got into the menu option one time but can't seem to get into it again. I read the manuals several times but I am still stuck.

Damm, what store? I notice Circ City has lots of em demoing on their TVs but they will never sell me one.
Turn demo mode off in the menu. I'll look at mine and see how.
Sorry don't see it. It is in the manual somewhere.

Thing is I can't get back to the menu. I've thought about setting off fireworks in this blasted thing for the 4th of July seeing how I only paid $10. They thought it was just a digital tuner box. lol

Try going to the 9012 menu and setting back to factory Defaults.

press <MENU> then
<SCREEN MODE> then
<9012>

still can't get into the menu. I am blocked out from it ever since the first time I managed to get into it. I've been reading the manuals but can't seem to get anywhere. I know I need to get into the 9012 menu but can't get there.

If anyone lives in the Richmond, VA area and can help in person I would greatly appreciate it.

still can't get into the menu.
Can you at least get into the main menu when you press the MENU button?

still can't get into the menu. I am blocked out from it ever since the first time I managed to get into it. I've been reading the manuals but can't seem to get anywhere. I know I need to get into the 9012 menu but can't get there.


Do you press the button "Screen Mode" on the remote? Not a menu item in the menu that comes up.

Yeah, there is no menu to worry about at that point, just the button presses. If that doesn't work, try a warm reboot next (simultaneously press <exit><TV Guide> on the unit), and then enter the 9012 menu.

I don't doubt you for second, but that's really strange. The program content for these simultaneous HD/SD Comcast cable channels in my area are absolutely identical. I suppose there's some "logical" explanation somewhere.

yeah, I can't figure it out...especially when there's an ad on the HD channel for an upcoming show and the times are wrong...it occurs to me that they may only be shifted by an hour, at least that was the case for Battlestar, and - if that was generally true (which I don't know because I don't watch cable much myself) - it might have to do with a time zone screwup on the part of Comcast...

still can't get into the menu. I am blocked out from it ever since the first time I managed to get into it. I've been reading the manuals but can't seem to get anywhere. I know I need to get into the 9012 menu but can't get there.

I have a manual for setting the demo mode. But it says you need to start at the 9012 menu so this might not help you either. Let us know if you got it working.114177

Upon reading page 3 of the manual it appears that if you press the "right arrow" key on the remote or the front panel while the demo is playing, this will bring up a menu to stop the current repeating program. Then maybe you can access the menu to turn off the demo mode.

Why is this possible? I did the test on the CBS digital OT channel here and although it shows a quickly adding number of VBI packets (unlike other channels), the test results in a FAIL. Shouldn't packets be a guarantee of at least passing the test?

Why is this possible? I did the test on the CBS digital cable channel here and although it shows a quickly adding number of VBI packets (unlike other channels), the test results in a FAIL. Shouldn't packets be a guarantee of at least passing the test?

The test needs to see the packets in a certain number of seconds. My CBS digital will usually show fail for that test but it downloads the guide and time information just fine.

yeah, I can't figure it out...especially when there's an ad on the HD channel for an upcoming show and the times are wrong...it occurs to me that they may only be shifted by an hour, at least that was the case for Battlestar, and - if that was generally true (which I don't know because I don't watch cable much myself) - it might have to do with a time zone screwup on the part of Comcast...

Is it just your TVGOS listings for those channels that are incorrect, or is the actual program content different (time shifted?) when you watch them in real time?

If the former, then I'd suspect the Gemstar data set for your ZIP Code is wrong; if the latter, then you're getting the wrong feed from Comcast. If both are wrong, then...????

Is it just your TVGOS listings for those channels that are incorrect, or is the actual program content different (time shifted?) when you watch them in real time?

If the former, then I'd suspect the Gemstar data set for your ZIP Code is wrong; if the latter, then you're getting the wrong feed from Comcast. If both are wrong, then...????

I have TW and my experience in recording TNT HD is that programs occur earlier than on the analog feed. The guide shows this information correctly since I've successfully recorded the HD programs. However the guide isn't 100 percent accurate on other channels such as Lifetime Movie.

Ray

Is it just your TVGOS listings for those channels that are incorrect, or is the actual program content different (time shifted?) when you watch them in real time?

If the former, then I'd suspect the Gemstar data set for your ZIP Code is wrong; if the latter, then you're getting the wrong feed from Comcast. If both are wrong, then...????

unambiguously, the actual programs are shifted, because this is not even on my 3410a, which I don't have set up for cable

it's from my housemate's Comcast HD recorder! And both the actual programs AND the Comcast Guide listings were time shifted between the 2 SciFi channels; and - as I remarked - other channels with both SD and HD have different listings..

I should emphasize that it's only for Battlestar that I KNOW these programs occurred at different times (an hour apart), because that's the only program I paid specific attention to and that's the one where I KNOW the COmcast guide listing were shifted by an hour...furthermore, on at least one of the recent programs, I noticed that the second (i.e., duplicative) showing 2 hours later on the HD channel was NOT in high-def...but fortunately I had already set the unit to record the earlier showing, which WAS in high-def...in fact, the second showing was in a screwed-up version that was SD windowboxed...really lousy looking, for whatever value THAT bit of info is worth...I don't know what Comcast was doing...but in any case, those last few episodes of Battlestar were all shown in HD an hour earlier that they showed on the SD channel, and I made a point of recording the HD version (successfully) for each episode.

PhilB or WhatHappend... exactly what is the sequence you used for switching the host channel to your local CBS digital channel? My analog host channel is 12, and my digital host channel is 3.1. Both have passed the G* test. I have tried TVGOS Setup codes 963214785 (VBI Search Current Channel in the INFO box), 987789987 (VBI Quick Search Cur Channel in the INFO box), and 369874125 (??? - no change in the INFO box). Under all circumstances, my host channel either stays at 12, or goes blank (only to return to 12 once the box has been off for a few hours.) Under no circumstances can I make the host channel read 3-1. What am I doing wrong? I've also tried running the G* test with 3.1 tuned and then just leaving the box on - the host still sticks to 12 or goes blank.


Please read this post to learn how I got my DHG to accept digital guide data:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14075249#post14075249

In short I used the VBI Search Current Channel test to force the host channel.

Follow spiff's FAQ to see how I got this to work:

http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section222

-phil

Please read this post to learn how I got my DHG to accept digital guide data:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14075249#post14075249

In short I used the VBI Search Current Channel test to force the host channel.

Follow spiff's FAQ to see how I got this to work:

http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section222

-philPhilB... Spiff's FAQ says it's necessary to do an "initial setup" (i.e. lose all your current listings) before the "VBI Search Current Channel" will work properly. Your post does not indicate that you did that. Was your host channel blank before you ran the VBI Search Current Channel? Did you do an "initial setup" first?

I can easily get the VBI Chan (line below Host Chan) to read 3-1, but in order to be downloading the guide regularly, it's my understanding that the Host Chan needs to read 3-1. That is what I can't get to happen, at least without doing an "initial setup" (which I am loath to do). I've been fiddling around with the G* test and the VBI Search codes until the Host Chan reads blank, then tuning to 3-1 and doing "VBI Search Current Channel". After that, the Host Chan is still blank and after turning off overnight, it restores itself to analog 12, not digital 3-1. Your post implies that immediately after running the "VBI Search Current Channel", you saw your digital host 11-1 become the "Host Chan".

On a related note, does anyone know what it means when the VBI Chan readout shows "fffffffd" instead of the usual "0:0-x" or 0:x-y"? I get that sometimes after running the G* test.

unambiguously, the actual programs are shifted, because this is not even on my 3410a, which I don't have set up for cable

it's from my housemate's Comcast HD recorder! And both the actual programs AND the Comcast Guide listings were time shifted between the 2 SciFi channels; and - as I remarked - other channels with both SD and HD have different listings..

I should emphasize that it's only for Battlestar that I KNOW these programs occurred at different times (an hour apart), because that's the only program I paid specific attention to and that's the one where I KNOW the COmcast guide listing were shifted by an hour...furthermore, on at least one of the recent programs, I noticed that the second (i.e., duplicative) showing 2 hours later on the HD channel was NOT in high-def...but fortunately I had already set the unit to record the earlier showing, which WAS in high-def...in fact, the second showing was in a screwed-up version that was SD windowboxed...really lousy looking, for whatever value THAT bit of info is worth...I don't know what Comcast was doing...but in any case, those last few episodes of Battlestar were all shown in HD an hour earlier that they showed on the SD channel, and I made a point of recording the HD version (successfully) for each episode.

As I said earlier, very strange. I should note that I use cable cards, not Comcast-provided boxes. At least your housemate's guide and program content are consistent. The SD version of BSG I get is 16x9 letterbox (the HD version is 16x9 full-screen), and the PQ is fairly decent, even when zoomed to full-screen. Could be worth a call to Comcast to ask about this if you feel it's important, but you likely wouldn't get a satisfying response from first-line CSRs.

Apologies to all others in the thread for drifting off topic a bit.

PhilB... Spiff's FAQ says it's necessary to do an "initial setup" (i.e. lose all your current listings) before the "VBI Search Current Channel" will work properly. Your post does not indicate that you did that. Was your host channel blank before you ran the VBI Search Current Channel? Did you do an "initial setup" first?

I can easily get the VBI Chan (line below Host Chan) to read 3-1, but in order to be downloading the guide regularly, it's my understanding that the Host Chan needs to read 3-1. That is what I can't get to happen, at least without doing an "initial setup" (which I am loath to do). I've been fiddling around with the G* test and the VBI Search codes until the Host Chan reads blank, then tuning to 3-1 and doing "VBI Search Current Channel". After that, the Host Chan is still blank and after turning off overnight, it restores itself to analog 12, not digital 3-1. Your post implies that immediately after running the "VBI Search Current Channel", you saw your digital host 11-1 become the "Host Chan".

On a related note, does anyone know what it means when the VBI Chan readout shows "fffffffd" instead of the usual "0:0-x" or 0:x-y"? I get that sometimes after running the G* test.

The "fffffffd" is a quirk of the system. If you are do the G*Test on a digital channel with VBI it always says that. If you notice when you do a clock set on a digital channel it will have "fffffffd" as the last clock set channel.

Their is no real force VBI channel. If your analog 12 is strong and was your last host I am afraid it will always take over. The analog channel win over digital. When the box is off it will go to the last analog host channel during download time. You can play around with doing a VBI Search during guide download time. Good Luck....

Is there a reason you are trying to not use a valid host channel? (I am guessing just your curiosity about guide down load potential of your CBS channel?, If so, just leave your box on for a few days on the CBS channel. Make sure you do a G* test and don't change channel before leaving the box sit. The Guide will download with the unit on if you have done a G* test.)

The reason for the time difference for the sci-fi and some other HD chans is because at this time there is only an eastern feed available to the west coast and other areas. Some day that should be corrected.

The reason for the time difference for the sci-fi and some other HD chans is because at this time there is only an eastern feed available to the west coast and other areas. Some day that should be corrected.

I thought it might be something dumb like that...the whole US as seen from the eastern seaboard, huh?

My cable provider is Cablevision.

I did the VBI test on the local CBS HiDef channel.

Over the air, there are significant VBI packets being received even though the test shows fail.

From cable, same channel, zero packets.

Can Cablevision be stripping them out? Is this occurring anywhere else?

Is there a reason you are trying to not use a valid host channel? (I am guessing just your curiosity about guide down load potential of your CBS channel?You're correct in that I'm trying to duplicate PhilB's success at getting the digital host channel to stick even in the case where the analog host channel is not filtered out; he indicated that he had gotten his Host Channel readout to say 11-1. Under no conditions have I been able to get it to show my CBS digital host, though it is indeed broadcasting the guide.If so, just leave your box on for a few days on the CBS channel. Make sure you do a G* test and don't change channel before leaving the box sit. The Guide will download with the unit on if you have done a G* test.)I completely agree - in my case, tuning to channel 3-1 (KYW-DT in Philadelphia) and running the G* test, I've seen the last page of the guide populate in maybe 10 minutes or less, not even a few days. My concern is that this is a manual operation that one needs to remember to do to get the guide to download, as opposed to making the Host Channel read 3-1, like PhilB, in which case it should download whenever not turned on. I just was curious about his secret for doing that.

My cable provider is Cablevision.

I did the VBI test on the local CBS HiDef channel.

Over the air, there are significant VBI packets being received even though the test shows fail.

From cable, same channel, zero packets.

Can Cablevision be stripping them out? Is this occurring anywhere else?
Yes, any cable company can accidentally remove the VBI information. If they are re-encoding the MPEG signal to conserve bandwidth (packing more than 2 HD channels per cable channel). They would need updated equipment to preserve the VBI information contained in the MPEG format. MPEG also has a digital form of Closed captions that is carried differently so they can destroy the VBI information and you still have CC information.

Assuming Cablevision is packing 3 or 4 HD channels on one cable channel and you are a video enthusiast (with a 50" or larger HDTV) you should be able to see the degradation of the cables companies HD CBS channel compared to the over the air version during any kind of camera panning or action scenes.

My cable company (Mediacom) is not doing this yet. They are always checking out the potential of doing it if the can get away with it (they say if it doesn't degrade the picture quality.)

My concern is that this is a manual operation that one needs to remember to do to get the guide to download, as opposed to making the Host Channel read 3-1, like PhilB, in which case it should download whenever not turned on. I just was curious about his secret for doing that.

I have had my host channel CBS digital. It just goes back to analog after a while. I made it like 1 week on the digital channel. There is just no way of setting the host channel to your desired channel if it has a working host (that I know of). The same issue for trying to keep a OTA host if your cable company is broadcasting a host too. The SONY will always go back to the cable host channel (seems to prefer them).

Why don't you think that the host will stay digital after there are no analog channels to revert to? There are at least 4-5 members that have had the host channel be digital.

Why don't you think that the host will stay digital after there are no analog channels to revert to? There are at least 4-5 members that have had the host channel be digital.Because I have never -even once - seen my unit list 3-1 as the host channel, even for a short time, even for a minute. The only thing I've ever seen is blank or 0-12. It's not a matter of reverting (which I would expect based on its documented penchant for analog... I'm OTA only), but rather being able to set a digital host in the first place, if even for a short time. I don't seem to be able to duplicate those 4-5 other users' experiences in that regard. Which is why I ask exactly what steps will produce those results.

frank70,

I'm on vacation this week, so my time to hang out at AVS is limited (thankfully), I appologize for the delayed response.

PhilB... Spiff's FAQ says it's necessary to do an "initial setup" (i.e. lose all your current listings) before the "VBI Search Current Channel" will work properly. Your post does not indicate that you did that. Was your host channel blank before you ran the VBI Search Current Channel? Did you do an "initial setup" first?


No I did not. Based on one of WhatHappend's posts (I believe it was sometime in March) I decide to use the VBI Search without doing the initial setup. Before the VBI Search process my host channel was listed as 0-8 (Houston analog PBS). I had previously tested that the clock would get set when tuned to 11-1 after performing a soft reset (remove from power) and running the G* test so I was confident that there was at least some good data on the digital CBS stream.


Your post implies that immediately after running the "VBI Search Current Channel", you saw your digital host 11-1 become the "Host Chan".


As it's been a couple of weeks since I did this, my memory is a bit fuzy, but I believe this is correct. I tuned to 11-1, ran VBI Search then the DHG went through it's 5 minute startup routine, and the Host Channel was listed as 11-1immediately afterward.

-phil

frank70,

I'm on vacation this week, so my time to hang out at AVS is limited (thankfully), I appologize for the delayed response.

As it's been a couple of weeks since I did this, my memory is a bit fuzy, but I believe this is correct. I tuned to 11-1, ran VBI Search then the DHG went through it's 5 minute startup routine, and the Host Channel was listed as 11-1immediately afterward.


I hope you are having a good vacation. I am on vacation next week.

I have never seen VBI search reboot the box. You just leave it and in about 5min the menu times out. Maybe something in the VBI data caused the reboot.

I have had my host channel CBS digital. It just goes back to analog after a while. I made it like 1 week on the digital channel. There is just no way of setting the host channel to your desired channel if it has a working host (that I know of). The same issue for trying to keep a OTA host if your cable company is broadcasting a host too. The SONY will always go back to the cable host channel (seems to prefer them).

Why don't you think that the host will stay digital after there are no analog channels to revert to? There are at least 4-5 members that have had the host channel be digital.
I have mentioned this in the past...but let me try a different way of explaining how I REGULARLY change host channels on demand.

My host channel is cable 13. This = CFTO (CTV) analog. In my channel list I have 2 CFTO's : CFTO Air (set to channel 9.1) and CFTO Cable (set to 13). CFTO Air I have switched on because this is the HD version I watch. CFTO Cable I have switched off because I don't need it.

Every couple of days, I go into my channel list and change the CFTO Cable channel from 13 to 35. I do this because it then uses Cable 35 (WNED Buffalo) to update the guide instead of Cable 13 (CFTO). This way my guide has both Canadian & American listings in full. (When doing this, the box will still show Cable 13 as the host channel even though it is actually using Cable 35). I do this switch every couple of days and it works like a charm.

If I want my listings to stop updating, I can change CFTO Cable channel to 99 or some other random number. Voila..no updates.

To stop your box from using the analog, I would suggest that you make sure that NONE of your channels map to the analog channel. For example, if WXYZ-TV is your current host channel and if, for example, WXYZ-TV is on Analog Air 13 Analog Digital 13.1 and Cable 4...keep your WXYZ Air on 13.1 and make WXYZ Cable something other than 4...so that it can't use Cable 4. I'm assuming your watching WXYZ in HD digital anyway rather than analog. (If using WXYZ HD on cable - then use the correct digital cable channel - but make the Air channel 99 or 0 or 1, etc).

Try this and see what happens.

[ I suspect that our boxes actually remember the Guide STATION as the host and not necessarily the CHANNEL, otherwise my WNED updates wouldn't be working !! - since my host channel always says Cable 13. ]

If the host channel you are trying to set it to is in a different zipcode than the one you're using, then I wouldn't think it would be likely to stick very long.

I get channels in my guide from three markets - 41, 45 and 61 miles away, in completely different directions. Don't you get any of those US stations in the guide even without having to keep "changing" the host channel? Or does the TVGOS just stop dead at the border when using your local host channel.

All I know is that in order to get another area's full listings, you always had to use that area's zipcode. It's that way with all 5 of my current TVGOS devices (7th, 8th and 9th generation guides). I get all (or some, in the case of the 7th gen. guide) of the higher-powered channels in my guide using my zipcode, but the lower-powered ones would only appear in that area's zipcode. So are you sure you're actually getting your listings from the US host channel?

If the host channel you are trying to set it to is in a different zipcode than the one you're using, then I wouldn't think it would be likely to stick very long.

I accidently left it on 35 (USA) instead of 13 (my local) while on vacation for a couple of weeks in November and the guide continued to update with 35 as host. If you think about it, if I change CFTO Cable to 35 in the channel list - nothing's going to automatically change the channel mapping back to 13 - I have to do it manually!

Don't you get any of those US stations in the guide even without having to keep "changing" the host channel? Or does the TVGOS just stop dead at the border when using your local host channel.

There is a lot of overlap, that's why it's not critical as to when I change back & forth...but the Buffalo station doesn't list Canadian cable channels and some of the Toronto area OTA stations, and the Toronto station doesn't list the Buffalo's CW, ION, PBS Think Bright, RTN, etc. I wish TVGOS would have a way for us to request add-ons. The Toronto station has a much smaller total # of stations listed than Buffalo - so there's lots of room for more to be added.

So are you sure you're actually getting your listings from the US host channel?

Yes I'm 100.0% sure, been doing it for almost 2 years now; in fact as a test, I've experimented in the past and used this method to use 195-mile away PBS Watertown, NY as a temporary host and received listings for a whole bunch of new stations in Vermont & Quebec. Have also done this with PBS Rochester, CTV Kitchener and CTV Deseronto as hosts....simply by changing the CFTO Cable or CFTO Air channel numbers in the channel list. All the while, the zipcode on the Sony remains my local zipcode. (Note that the box defaults to Cable as a priority over Air, so the Cable must be set to 99, etc. in order for it to use the OTA channel).

Also, if I make the change in the middle of the day, I can get 2 updates a day - 1 Canadian and 1 American. A change once every 2 or 3 days is usually good enough though to at least keep the next 48 hours current for every one of the stations in my channel list.

Just to give you a guys a update, KYW in Philly (CBS 3) is giving TVGOS data just fine on the 3.1 digital channel (My DHG-Hdd250 has been getting clock and guide data for two days now) . Remember, it's only the ATSC OTA channel though, like with PBS analog, Comcast's feed filters out the TVGOS data so you still need rabbit ears to get guide data but at least we won't be in the dark in 2009.

Update: Just did that 7531 code and the Host Chan and VBI Chan say 0:3-1

Just to give you a guys a update, KYW in Philly (CBS 3) is giving TVGOS data just fine on the 3.1 digital channel (My DHG-Hdd250 has been getting clock and guide data for two days now) . Remember, it's only the ATSC OTA channel though, like with PBS analog, Comcast's feed filters out the TVGOS data so you still need rabbit ears to get guide data but at least we won't be in the dark in 2009.

Update: Just did that 7531 code and the Host Chan and VBI Chan say 0:3-1Wonderful! But please, PLEASE tell me what you did to get it to switch the Host Chan from 0:0-12 to 0:3-1. I have tried everything under the sun other than a complete reset of the TVGOS system. And I know I can get guide updates from 3-1 when the unit is left switched on after a G* test. But my Host Channel has never read 0:3-1... never never never!

If the answer is a complete reset, I'll beg off experimenting and await 2/09 because reordering the channels is such an awkward and time-consuming process.

Wonderful! But please, PLEASE tell me what you did to get it to switch the Host Chan from 0:0-12 to 0:3-1. I have tried everything under the sun other than a complete reset of the TVGOS system. And I know I can get guide updates from 3-1 when the unit is left switched on after a G* test. But my Host Channel has never read 0:3-1... never never never!

If the answer is a complete reset, I'll beg off experimenting and await 2/09 because reordering the channels is such an awkward and time-consuming process.

I aimed my coat hanger towards the east where PBS WHYY barely comes in at all but KYW is clear. Since the TVGOS can't pick up PBS any more it searches for the next channel where it can get TVGOS data and I guess it's KYW-DT.

But it's the same guide whether you get it from KYW-DT or WHYY analog so don't fret. As soon as the PBS analog channel goes offline in 2009, I'm sure your unit will default to CBS 3 for guide data. it's just that the Sony is programmed to pick off guide info off of analog stations first

But it's the same guide whether you get it from KYW-DT or WHYY analog so don't fret. As soon as the PBS analog channel goes offline in 2009, I'm sure your unit will default to CBS 3 for guide data.

We're all hoping (fingers crossed!) that this will be the case...

I only wish we had the same hope for our LG3410a's, which use version 7 and apparently don't have the capability to go to a digital station for the TVGOS data...(WE'RE hoping the DTVPal - which just started shipping last week - or some other digital-to-analog converter box does the job for that unit, but so far none of us has been in a position to test...)

PS I've recommended coat-hangers in other contexts on a couple of threads, but that one won't work here because virtually all the stations come from the San Francisco direction, which my main (rooftop) antenna is aimed at, and the stations in other directions are too far away to succumb to a coat hanger...

I aimed my coat hanger ...Aha, the old coat hanger trick - cheers for low-tech, LOL! Ok, I've heard enough, I'm pretty confident it's gonna work. So why didn't Sony/Gemstar just say that in the first place and save us all this grief?

I was watching a recorded program last night and the screen suddenly went black with SONY displayed in the middle. I've seen this in the past and new the DVR had paniced and was rebooting. I looked at the front panel display and sure enough, it was rebooting.

I then realized it was about 8:02PM and I had a scheduled recording for 8:00PM, so I figured the DVR fell on its face trying to start the recording while I was watching another (I've done this successfully many times). After the DVR rebooted, it got the time in about 30 seconds, and started recording. Great I thought, it didn't lose it's guide data or recording schedule. I then turned it on (to resume watching my recorded program) and proceeded to navigate the recorded programs menu. The DVR locked up, and eventually paniced and rebooted. This happened a couple of times, so I left it off to just do the recording. I checked it today, and all seems fine.

In the Section Recordings - Recordings Summary page, it shows "No Path 1" and "BadDev 1". On the Section Recordings - Recordings Detail page, it shows the following:
Path/Title Key/Devid
1210302000 Smallville/Quest 1227/0
1210906800 Smallville/Arctic 1260/0
Sherrybaby/ 1463/255
1215140621 Sherrybaby/ 1454/0
1215141100 Sherrybaby/ 1465/0
1215141308 Sherrybaby/ 1466/0
1215147600 Fear Itself/Eater 1457/0

This is essentially the recorded programs list, with the exception of the bad entry (the first Sherrybaby). Is there anyway to delete this without deleting all of the recorded programs? Because it is a bad entry, it does not show up on the recorded programs list/menu.

For a week now I have had no clock and no data

Tried all the fixes in the search menu under this forum.

Restored factory defaults and still nothing. Even tried forcing my host channel. When I do the 753 doey thing under system settings no host channel is listed. When I do a vbi test it says 13 is passing. So I force 13 but still nothing.

Can a channel pass vbi and not be broadcasting the gemstar tvgos?

Any help is appreciated.

For a week now I have had no clock and no data

Tried all the fixes in the search menu under this forum.

Restored factory defaults and still nothing. Even tried forcing my host channel. When I do the 753 doey thing under system settings no host channel is listed. When I do a vbi test it says 13 is passing. So I force 13 but still nothing.

Can a channel pass vbi and not be broadcasting the gemstar tvgos?

Any help is appreciated.Cable or OTA?

Ota

I know that when our CBS when live with TVGOS, the analog PBS thought they were suppose to turn off right away...I was without listings for about 2 weeks until PBS corrected the issue.

Yes I am just trying to narrow it down to either my unit or channel 13 as channel 13 hasnt been answering their phones.

Just wondered if I do the vbi test and it says pass is that an assurance that my host channel is sending the tvgos data.

a fair number of the data dropouts reported here in the past, seem to have been due to a screwup of one kind or another with the TVGOS broadcast.

In the SF area some of us have recently been suffering a loss of the version 7 data (which the LG 3410a uses), but the version 8 data (for Sony 25 etc) have been fine...we're pretty sure that this was a broadcast problem, but not of the vbi data in general (because they take pretty good care of that, particularly because of the CC data), but specifically of one version of the TVGOS data

(ironically, I finally was able to get in touch with an engineer at our PBS station on Friday, 3 days after the version 7 data apparently got reliable again - at least for 6 days in a row...)

Unfortunately, it is hard to distinguish difficulties with one's unit from broadcast difficulties...

UPDATE 2:

I am now on day 13 of digital TVGOS guide data. I've been running for 13 days with my host channel reported as 11-1 (Houston Digital CBS channel).

For the first week the local analog PBS channel was filtered out. For the last 6 days the DHG has been able to receive analog PBS but it has remained on the digital CBS channel for guide data.

By the way, early this week or late last week (can't remember which) my DHG indicated a number of new stations in the guide. Several other AVSers in the Houston area have reported the same occurance, so it appears that CBS is broadcasting the same data as PBS (as expected).

-phil

UPDATE 3:

My DHG-HDD500 has now been receiving TVGOS data from the local CBS digital channel for 24 straight days. Since this has been a success I think I'll try a VBI Search Host Channel test on my DHG-HDD250 which has been getting guide data from the analog PBS channel. Hopefully that will also use the CBS digital channel for TVGOS data from now on.

-phil

intowin says: For a week now I have had no clock and no data
Tried all the fixes in the search menu under this forum.

Restored factory defaults and still nothing. Even tried forcing my host channel. When I do the 753 doey thing under system settings no host channel is listed. When I do a vbi test it says 13 is passing. So I force 13 but still nothing.

Can a channel pass vbi and not be broadcasting the gemstar tvgos?

Any help is appreciated.


I've had this situation crop up twice in the past few months. Most recently when I returned from vacation a week ago. Using OTA WETA 26 for guide in the DC area. I tried all the resets and such and couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting clock/guide data. An 'obscure' fix that isn't mentioned here very often is to reconfigure your TVGuide setup with zip code 00000. Then reconfigure again to your proper zip code. This seems to clear out the TVGOS data/config properly. One reason I've heard suggested that may cause the issue is the addition of channels to the lineup. Good luck.

UPDATE 3:
My DHG-HDD500 has now been receiving TVGOS data from the local CBS digital channel for 24 straight days. Since this has been a success I think I'll try a VBI Search Host Channel test on my DHG-HDD250 which has been getting guide data from the analog PBS channel. Hopefully that will also use the CBS digital channel for TVGOS data from now on.Lots of luck on that, Phil. I've tried both VBI Search Current Channel and VBI Quick Search Cur Channel on my (definitely broadcasting TVGOS) CBS digital channel with no success in getting the Host Chan to change.

An 'obscure' fix that isn't mentioned here very often is to reconfigure your TVGuide setup with zip code 00000. Then reconfigure again to your proper zip code. This seems to clear out the TVGOS data/config properly. it's not that obscure. They even tell you how to do it right on the TVGOS grid if you move the cursor to the left to bring it up.

Both my LG and Sony DVR's haven't been able to find the host channel for TVGOS in Atlanta (WGTV) since July 2nd. Anynone else in the Atlanta area experiencing the same problem? I've left a message for the station engineer but don't know what else to do verify that it's even being broadcast...

Both my LG and Sony DVR's haven't been able to find the host channel for TVGOS in Atlanta (WGTV) since July 2nd. Anynone else in the Atlanta area experiencing the same problem? I've left a message for the station engineer but don't know what else to do verify that it's even being broadcast...

I assume you are still RECEIVING picture, etc from the station; in that case, you've done the right thing...if you don't get a response, CALL them - oops, maybe that's the kind of message you left...anyway, most engineering people are happy to respond...

on the other hand, if there's a REAL problem, or if they've been having some sort of major switchover of channels, like our local PBS stations, they may be in over their heads for a bit...

Yes, picture and audio has been fine. Didn't know if something major is changing in the Atlanta area? Hope the engineer calls me back. I reset my TV Guide on the LG unit using the "00000" for the zip code. I'll check tomorrow AM if that did anything.

I have an HDD-250 and have lost the clock and channel settings. This apparently happened in June while I was on vacation. I'm just now getting around to trying to fix things but I there has been no clock or guide data since at least June 14th. In the past, when settings were lost, the clock always came back within a few minutes and the guide data has never been missing more than a week.

When I check the host channel, it is blank. I don't know what host channel was used in the past and the chart on Spiff's page doesn't have my area (Rock Hill, SC - close to Charlotte, NC) listed. The VBI host was listed as 1:59-11 (before I ran G* test). Now, it says fffffffd. In the G* test, I tried several different analog PBS stations (OTA and cable) as well as the digital CBS station (WBTV 59.12 on Comporium cable system) and the channel that was previously listed as the VBI, 59.11, and they all fail the VBI test. Given this how does one find a host channel?

I'm not very astute when it comes to troubleshooting this DVR. I've tried some of the settings from Spiff's FAQ's but not sure what to do. I did the steps to force the VBI channel to use the digital CBS station and will let it sit overnight but, considering there is still no clock nearly half an hour after the force, I'm not optimistic.

Any other suggestions? Thanks!

I'm not very astute when it comes to troubleshooting this DVR. I've tried some of the settings from Spiff's FAQ's but not sure what to do. I did the steps to force the VBI channel to use the digital CBS station and will let it sit overnight but, considering there is still no clock nearly half an hour after the force, I'm not optimistic.Run the G* test on each and every OTA channel. If none are showing VBI packet updates, sounds like a problem at the station. You'll need to find someone in the area who is still getting it, or who knows what the host was prior to the problem. That'll require a little searching on avsforum and elsewhere. For starters, try this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14134403#post14134403

If somebody else can point you to the host channel, and IS still receiving guide data for him/her, yet your G* test shows nothing on the same channel, it's probably time for a reset (they come in various strengths right on down to a factory reset.) I'd try a TVGOS reset (from the 9012 menu, TV Guide submenu) first; it's fairly non-destructive - if you do start working you'll just have to re-order your channels again.

OTOH, if you find someone else with the same problem, time to call the station.

Run the G* test on each and every OTA channel. If none are showing VBI packet updates, sounds like a problem at the station. You'll need to find someone in the area who is still getting it, or who knows what the host was prior to the problem. That'll require a little searching on avsforum and elsewhere. For starters, try this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14134403#post14134403

If somebody else can point you to the host channel, and IS still receiving guide data for him/her, yet your G* test shows nothing on the same channel, it's probably time for a reset (they come in various strengths right on down to a factory reset.) I'd try a TVGOS reset (from the 9012 menu, TV Guide submenu) first; it's fairly non-destructive - if you do start working you'll just have to re-order your channels again.

OTOH, if you find someone else with the same problem, time to call the station.

OK, thanks. Looks like I'll have to enable some of the OTA channels and do some extensive testing. In the past, I've just used the HD channels from cable except for the PBS HD which is OTA.

BTW, as expected, the forced host channel on the digital CBS station did not work.

Thanks, again!

Yes, picture and audio has been fine. Didn't know if something major is changing in the Atlanta area? Hope the engineer calls me back. I reset my TV Guide on the LG unit using the "00000" for the zip code. I'll check tomorrow AM if that did anything.

I'm south of town and use PBS 8 for my VBI host at last check. Things are OK on my end, so I don't think it's a signal issue.

When I check the host channel, it is blank. I don't know what host channel was used in the past and the chart on Spiff's page doesn't have my area (Rock Hill, SC - close to Charlotte, NC) listed.

Spiff's page lists WSOC (OTA channel 9, ABC) as the host channel for Charlotte. Over where I am, the host channel is the SCETV (PBS) station in Greenville, so you might also try the one in Rock Hill (WNSC ch 30).

I know we're pretty confident now that the Sony boxes will latch onto CBS digital TVGOS signals after Feb '09, but returning to an old issue for a moment:

There had been a fantasy somewhere in this thread that any/every CECB would be required to pass all VBI data, be it closed caption, TVGOS, or something else when converting digital VBI (however that's encoded in the PSIP) to analog VBI (bits encoded on the luminance of various NTSC VBI lines.)

Let me unequivocally lay that to rest - at least one box, my Tivax STB-T9, does convert VBI closed caption data, but DOES NOT convert VBI TVGOS data. I used my Sony DHG-HDD250 to test this, as follows:

First, I tuned my Sony to KYW-DT (OTA CBS station in Philly), and ran the G* test. Results were positive for presence of VBI packets, one or more per second. Same was true when I tuned the Sony to WHYY analog (OTA PBS station in Philly and my normal analog host channel.)

Then, I disconnected my antenna wire from the Sony antenna input and connected it to the Tivax box. Set the Tivax box to output on channel 3 analog. Connected the RF output from the Tivax box to the Sony antenna input. Turned on the Tivax box and tuned it to KYW-DT (3.1). Turned on the Sony box and tuned it to OTA analog 3. Nice picture and sound from KYW-DT (SD quality of course, but decent). Ran the G* test. NO TVGOS VBI packets were being received.

The Sony is able to decode and display the basic closed captions in this mode, so the Tivax is passing them through on VBI, but NOT the TVGOS data. So here is a single counter-example that blows the myth that ALL CECBs will convert TVGOS VBI data. I don't have my hands on a DTVPal yet (and may not for quite some time while Dish is off fixing known bugs - see here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14239691#post14239691 ), so can't speak for that. Some other CECBs may, but this one surely doesn't.

It's a simple enough test, so maybe some of you with other CECBs in hand and a working CBS TVGOS digital station nearby (as can be confirmed by the first step above), can go through the same motions and see what CECBs (if any) provide this pass-thru, if not for us, then for the benefit of owners of the LG DVRs or TVGOS analog-only recorders. You see, though our Sony's probably don't have an issue with the digital transition, they provide the perfect test tool, since they give instant feedback on the presence/absence of TVGOS VBI packets.

I tried a cruder test with my LG3410a and a Digital Stream 9950, which turned out to be inconclusive (cf http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14239368#post14239368)

As noted there, enough signal filtered through the cecb from my PBS analog station (despite the fact that the cecb was set to convert the CBS digital signal - and indeed DID provide a nice analog version through channel 3) that my 3410a succeeded in finding some TVGOS data from the PBS station, so that this did not test whether the converted CBS signal carried TVGOS data - ugh!

I haven't been spending time playing with my Sony, because - from this thread - it looks like the Sony will switch itself to the CBS digital source for TVGOS data, when the PBS analog source dries up.

I have been following this tread for a while now and my DHG-HDD500 has been working without a hitch. One thing I have never seen addressed is the guide supporting channels or subchannels with 4 digits. Comcast has moved most of the digital channels to 4 digit subchannels and I can no longer configure them in the guide. Is my only choice to get a cable-card so that the channels would get mapped to the "regular" 3 digit channel number?

-Jeremy A. Moore

Oh, that's been addressed in this thread plenty, if you really search back a bit.

But with 400 pages to search through I can't say I blame you for not wanting to do so.

I can not find anyone selling a new Sony DHG-HDD250 or 500. Had this product be discontinued?

I ran into that problem with cablecard and my cable provider. many of the HD channels were 'switched' and not receivable with cablecard. All of the local cable HD channels are in the 1600# range and so I could not remap them either. I gave up and am just as happy with antenna and QAM HD tuning thru the HDD500. I will not go back to more cable services until the HDD500 dies or is not useable and/or the upcoming digital encryption tuners are built-into equipment you can buy so you don't need to rent cable co equipment.

I can not find anyone selling a new Sony DHG-HDD250 or 500. Had this product be discontinued?

In 2006 I believe.

Oh, that's been addressed in this thread plenty, if you really search back a bit.

But with 400 pages to search through I can't say I blame you for not wanting to do so.

No need to search, I have read them all. Just my memory fails me sometimes and I may have missed the one page that talked about it. ;)

I know the 4 digit limit has been talked about (I believe it is in the FAQ and that it was still limited to less than channel 1024 - a 10-bit number?) I just do not remember there being any "tricks" other than possibly using a cable card so that the channels get remapped. Do other (newer maybe) TVGOS devices have this fixed (yet)?

I am just tired of having my recordings all listed under "unknown" because the channel is not in the guide.

It also looks like locally comcast is starting to add the basic analog channels to the free digital channels. No doubt planning to go all digital at some point. So far those channels are 2-digit.3-digit format.

-Jeremy A. Moore

I've been out of the loop for a long time here. I need to ask - are we going to need converter boxes with an analog pass-thru after 21/2009 or have you guys figured out that our HDD250/500 machines will get TVGOS data without one?

Thanks in advance, Lyca
p.sp I started searching the forum to find the answer (a needle in the haystack) but thought one of you would readily know the answer :rolleyes: - Thanks

In 2006 I believe.

Sony discontinued these units in late November or in December 2005. If you browse posts during this period you can probably pin down the date. I bought my 250 the week before Thanksgiving 2005, and they were discontinued shortly afterward. In February 2006 the Tweeter chain had a blowout clearance sale on the 500's at $250 each, which stimulated a lot of frenzied activity here. (That blowout is how I happened to end up with both a 250 and a 500. :D )

have you guys figured out that our HDD250/500 machines will get TVGOS data without one?

Yes, provided you have a host channel in your area that carries the ATSC version of TVGOS. Scan the past month or so of postings for experiments that show this. Only a handful or two of cities have this now, but hopefully coverage will be mostly complete by next February.

PhilB or WhatHappend... exactly what is the sequence you used for switching the host channel to your local CBS digital channel? My analog host channel is 12, and my digital host channel is 3.1. Both have passed the G* test. I have tried TVGOS Setup codes 963214785 (VBI Search Current Channel in the INFO box), 987789987 (VBI Quick Search Cur Channel in the INFO box), and 369874125 (??? - no change in the INFO box). Under all circumstances, my host channel either stays at 12, or goes blank (only to return to 12 once the box has


frank70,

Last night I attempted to force my second DHG unit to use the local CBS digital channel as TVGOS host channel. Previously my unit had been using the local PBS analog channel.

I turned the unit to 11-1 and ran the 963214785 test. I then turned the unit off over night. This morning the unit reported 0-26 as hos channel (local FOX analog station) which also broadcasts TVGOS.

From this, I conclude that the 963214785 test doesn't force the current channel to be the Host, but instead forces the unit to find a new host channel.

At least I know that in February I won't have this problem (channel 26 goes away) and given my previous sucess with my first DHG I fully expect to get guide data on 11-1.

-phil

From this, I conclude that the 963214785 test doesn't force the current channel to be the Host, but instead forces the unit to find a new host channel.PhilB, thanks for confirming my suspicion (and experience) that there is not really a way to force a particular host channel in the presence of other potential host channels. One has to wonder, though, why the words that come up in the info box when you run this code are "VBI Search Current Channel" if that's not what it means! And yes, I have tried it with the Host Channel readout blank.

I do believe the following to be true even if it does not seem it should be possible:

For two months I recorded The Wild Wild West (TWWW) regularly at 8 am. Several days ago tvgos listings for the program changed to 3 pm for the last day shown but remained at 8 am for the earlier days.

Effective the morning after, there was no recording at 8 am but the same channel was recorded at 3 pm, the recording light striking me as unexpected. The program listed for 3 pm (Perry Mason?) was recorded and entered in the recordings list as TWWW.

This also occurred on the subsequent day. In the schedule list TWWW was shown as recording at 8 am regularly.

I deleted it from the schedule and reestablished it as a regular recording when in listings showing it at 8 am. The next day it recorded properly.

There have been many occasions in the past 2 years where the program recorded was not the program scheduled but this is the first time I have determined what happened.
YMMV.

Quick Update: Wasn't the WGTV Host channel, but one of my three HDD250's was the culprit. All of my units quit receiving TVGOS listings (including a LG) and showed the wrong times, except one Sony that just displayed --:-- continuosly even after several resets, including a TVGOS reset. Once I disconnected this unit, the other units began downloading TVGOS and populated overnight. This evening I did a clear NVM and Zero HDD via the Wipe Unit directions described on spiffspaces page and now it has passed VBI test. Hopefully, tomorrow AM the listings/time will be populated. I would have never suspected one unit could adversely affect the other units, but it definitely prevented the other units from receiving the VBI information.

Quick Update: Wasn't the WGTV Host channel, but one of my three HDD250's was the culprit. All of my units quit receiving TVGOS listings (including a LG) and showed the wrong times, except one Sony that just displayed --:-- continuosly even after several resets, including a TVGOS reset. Once I disconnected this unit, the other units began downloading TVGOS and populated overnight. This evening I did a clear NVM and Zero HDD via the Wipe Unit directions described on spiffspaces page and now it has passed VBI test. Hopefully, tomorrow AM the listings/time will be populated. I would have never suspected one unit could adversely affect the other units, but it definitely prevented the other units from receiving the VBI information.

???

Is there still a market for these boxes? I bought one 2-3 years ago and only used it briefly before buying a TiVo S3 (due to a TiVo special offer). I'm trying to whittle down my ever-growing stack or unused/replaced/upgraded equipment, and would happily sell it if there's still a demand.

Sorry to barge in on your thread, but thanks in advance for any info. :)

Since they seem to be useful past 2/2009 I'm sure you could find a buyer. Try in the equipment for sale section.

Since they seem to be useful past 2/2009 I'm sure you could find a buyer. Try in the equipment for sale section.

Thanks, Mike, I'll look into that.

Nope, all 4 DVR's are back to normal and RF strength was never the issue. The problematic Sony unit after I wiped it, still displayed --:--, but then I powered it on and got a message "Recovered from Hard drive Error". Power cycled the unit one more time and finally got the time to display. This morning all the TVGOS listings had downloaded correctly. Georgia Power had come out last week and killed the power to our house for a just a moment. I'm wondering if that quick power flicker locked up the unit in some way???

PhilB, thanks for confirming my suspicion (and experience) that there is not really a way to force a particular host channel in the presence of other potential host channels. One has to wonder, though, why the words that come up in the info box when you run this code are "VBI Search Current Channel" if that's not what it means! And yes, I have tried it with the Host Channel readout blank.

So here's another strange data point for you. Yesterday afternoon I ran the VBI Serach test again while tuned to CBS digital. Guess what my Host Channel was this morning. It was 11-1. Now both of my DHGs are getting guide data from CBS Digital - I have no need for NTSC any more. I'll keep an eye on the second DHG and see if it reverts back to PBS (or FOX) analog.

I'd love to be able to look at Sony's code to see how it searches for the host channel.

-phil

So here's another strange data point for you. Yesterday afternoon I ran the VBI Serach test again while tuned to CBS digital. Guess what my Host Channel was this morning. It was 11-1.Indeed, and here's one for you and everybody else: I tried VBI Search Current Channel again (with CBS tuned), but this time turned off the DVR immediately after initiating the search. Left it overnight and lo-and-behold, the Host Channel finally (first time ever!) reads 0:3-1. And the day-8 guide data had downloaded to boot. So either a) sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; or b) it works only if you turn off the box immediately after initiating the search (i.e. don't wait for the TVGOS setup screen go to away.) Like you, I'm interested in how long it sticks (forever would be nice.)

Unless you've blocked out the analogs, it'll probably change back over to that by tomorrow. That's been the standard experience here.

Unless you've blocked out the analogs, it'll probably change back over to that by tomorrow. That's been the standard experience here.

That's not my experience. One of my DHGs has been using CBS digital for Host Channel for 3 weeks without any filter in place (It did have a VHF filter in line for a week prior). My other DHG now has had CBS digital as TVGOS Host for two days, I've not put a filter on the antenna input on that one at all.

-phil

That's not my experience. One of my DHGs has been using CBS digital for Host Channel for 3 weeks without any filter in place (It did have a VHF filter in line for a week prior).I didn't realize you removed the filter.

Hi - I realized yesterday that I had in my mind been conflating TV Guide versions and TVGOS data sets. So in the LG 3410a thread I posted a message with some thoughts about this, making my confusion explicit and asking if anyone knows specific answers about, for example, how many physically different TVGOS data sets are broadcast, whether there's a one-to-one correspondence with the version (e.g., 7, 8, or 9 (or lower numbers)) that the TV Guide devices have. Cf http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14270365#post14270365

These questions were stimulated in part by Jan J's comment that he had been told that the "proper" digital TVGOS data for conversion by a cecb (and in particular by the DTVPal, I guess) wouldn't start being broadcast in the Chicago area until August. When I was trying to guess for myself what the guy he was talking with meant by "proper", I realized I didn't know how the TVGOS data - whether proper or NOT - were broadcast, by which I mean whether the types were broadcast together, perhaps in different places in the vbi, whether the TV Guide device simply went to a particular data set (for its version) and got the data for the device's zip code there, or whether it simply selected the data it wanted from some grand assembly of TVGOS data, all being broadcast as one set or WHAT!?

Can anybody address this question? Thanks!