As long as we're asking probing questions, I've always wondered why, when I've told TVGOS during setup that I am OTA only, I still get (in an disabled state by default, and all marked "Air") a gajillion cable channels in my channel-setup list. And also why for each "good" OTA channel, I often get multiple disabled versions of the same channel with minor variations in channel name or network designation. All of this is superfluous data that makes reordering the channels after a TVGOS reset take an hour or more instead of minutes, even with the "page" (channel) key. It's like looking for needles in a haystack.

Since a zipcode narrows things down to a very small area, ideally I want to see in the list only OTA channels that are "potentially" receivable here (and only once per channel, thank you), with the ones in the home market for that zipcode initially enabled and the rest initially disabled. That would limit the size of the list to no more than 68 channels (times, perhaps, 1.5 to account for subchannels on the digitals.) Instead the OTA list is up to 605 channels and growing here in the Philly area.

As for the cable folks, well... they've bought all those channels and must live with the consequences.

Attached is a file originally a spreadsheet I converted to adobe so it would post. It comes from an 'answers' board at the TVGOS website where I used to have an active case on file. I don't think it will answer all questions, but may provide some insight. I think most interesting what is mentioned about the digital slicing beginning at version 8.1.65.

Hi - I realized yesterday that I had in my mind been conflating TV Guide versions and TVGOS data sets. So in the LG 3410a thread I posted a message with some thoughts about this, making my confusion explicit and asking if anyone knows specific answers about, for example, how many physically different TVGOS data sets are broadcast, whether there's a one-to-one correspondence with the version (e.g., 7, 8, or 9 (or lower numbers)) that the TV Guide devices have. Cf http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14270365#post14270365

These questions were stimulated in part by Jan J's comment that he had been told that the "proper" digital TVGOS data for conversion by a cecb (and in particular by the DTVPal, I guess) wouldn't start being broadcast in the Chicago area until August. When I was trying to guess for myself what the guy he was talking with meant by "proper", I realized I didn't know how the TVGOS data - whether proper or NOT - were broadcast, by which I mean whether the types were broadcast together, perhaps in different places in the vbi, whether the TV Guide device simply went to a particular data set (for its version) and got the data for the device's zip code there, or whether it simply selected the data it wanted from some grand assembly of TVGOS data, all being broadcast as one set or WHAT!?

Can anybody address this question? Thanks!

Attached is a file originally a spreadsheet I converted to adobe so it would post. It comes from an 'answers' board at the TVGOS website where I used to have an active case on file. I don't think it will answer all questions, but may provide some insight. I think most interesting what is mentioned about the digital slicing beginning at version 8.1.65.

Thanks for the spreadsheet, which I found interesting...

however, it doesn't - at least to me - suggest an answer to any of the questions I have...

I realize I don't know what digital slicing is, either - does that do something about separating subchannels? or what? I guess I'm going to have to read spiffy's stuff again (though I know it doesn't answer the questions I have above)

Attached is a file originally a spreadsheet I converted to adobe so it would post. It comes from an 'answers' board at the TVGOS website where I used to have an active case on file. I don't think it will answer all questions, but may provide some insight. I think most interesting what is mentioned about the digital slicing beginning at version 8.1.65.

My DHGs have TVGOS versions 8.1.42/8.6.44. I wonder if this means that after the analog cut-off, should I lose my downloaded TVGOS software, then I'm out of luck as the default version will not know how to download an update from the digital stream?

-phil

I'm sorry in advance, but why is there still daily discussions on this device? The DHG-HDDXX0 is all but dead since cable boxes are low cost and tivo's are nearly free now. I even find it remarkable that there is an active collectors market on Ebay for these things which explains why someone is still willing to pay $700+ for the 500. I don't want to rain on anyones parade but for the people that are viewing this as a collectors item what is your basis? Is it because it was Sony's last hard drive based DVR? For those that are using theirs daily please accept my apology, I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just having a difficult time understanding why aftermarket is still active and way overpriced.

I'm sorry in advance, but why is there still daily discussions on this device? The DHG-HDDXX0 is all but dead since cable boxes are low cost and tivo's are nearly free now. I even find it remarkable that there is an active collectors market on Ebay for these things which explains why someone is still willing to pay $700+ for the 500. I don't want to rain on anyones parade but for the people that are viewing this as a collectors item what is your basis? Is it because it was Sony's last hard drive based DVR? For those that are using theirs daily please accept my apology, I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just having a difficult time understanding why aftermarket is still active and way overpriced.

Please tell me where a TiVo Series3 HD DVR is "nearly free now". Tivo will sell you one for $599, but that is far from nearly free. And that doesn't include the $12.95 monthly service fee. The Sony is still valuable because it is free of the service fees demanded by Tivo. There are plenty of users who use their Sony HD DVR for OTA only so a cable box isn't an option for them. Cable service in my area is very expensive. I and many of my neighbors have satellite instead or are OTA only. I certainly don't regret buying my Sony DHG-HDD500 for OTA use nearly 3 years ago. It has 57+ hours of HD storage capacity which neither Tivo or most cable boxes can match. Only in the last year has Dish Network produced an HD DVR which matches the hard drive capacity of my Sony.

^^

What he said.....

It has simply been the best option (and continues to be) for OTA only viewers since what...2004 or 2005? I'm not sure if it's props to Sony or shame on everyone that a 3+ year old DVR (ancient really when it comes to this type of technology) put out when HD recording what in its infancy is still a viable option for a decent % of the market (still around 20% OTA only right?)

I'm another very happy OTA only user. As noted, other than the original purchase, there are no additional or recurring costs for owning/using this unit. I am extremely happy with it (although I do wish its tuner were as solid as my SXRD's). We do in excess of 50% of our TV viewing via this HD DVR (love time shifting and ff commercials). It is easy to schedule and view recordings, and, since it will get the TVGOS from digital - it will be in use in this household for many years to come.

Note: I also have a HDTV tuner in my PC and can use it as an HD-PVR. While its quality is as good as the Sony, it is a little less convient to use, so, it usually gets used when there are multiple programs I need to record being broadcast simultaniously.

I am just having a difficult time understanding why aftermarket is still active and way overpriced.

What, are you grumpy because you still can't find one for $150? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11954238#post11954238) :D

As others have noted, right now the only real alternatives for OTA-only people like me are the Tivos with their subscription fees and the also-discontinued LG LST-3410A. The Tivos have the added disadvantage of requiring a phone or internet connection in order to get the EPG, neither of which I have in my living room.

If the Echostar / Sling TR-50 does appear this fall as promised, and turns out to work OK, and is reasonably priced, it will probably deflate the market for the Sonys.

I love my 2 HDD500s. I hate using cableco clunky boxes and remotes, and dealing with their customer 'service', and the bills. My Sonys work great. I hope they do after Feb 08 too.
When the already approved replacement tech for rental cableco boxes comes out I may subscribe to more cable service, but for now I am extremely happy with my Sonys.

I love my 2 HDD500s. I hate using cableco clunky boxes and remotes, and dealing with their customer 'service', and the bills. My Sonys work great. I hope they do after Feb 08 too.
When the already approved replacement tech for rental cableco boxes comes out I may subscribe to more cable service, but for now I am extremely happy with my Sonys.

I agree, I do like the DVRs. But, 4 years ago there was nothing else on the market like them. Now, that every Joe Manufacturer has made one, one would expect the price of these boxes would have dropped just like every other piece of hardware electronic. I've had more time to think about it and I do recall a company called Tweeter selling off alot of these guys for $200 and they went straight to Ebay. You will regularly see the DVRs on Ebay and I made the assumption that after an enthusiast has owned one and realized its value is no where near MSRP or within 75% of it, they are just wanting to unload them and at least get some of the money back. I know I would

I agree, I do like the DVRs. But, 4 years ago there was nothing else on the market like them. Now, that every Joe Manufacturer has made one,

There is NO alternative for an out-of-the-box, OTA, fee-free HD-DVR.

-phil

^^

Exactly

I'm sorry in advance, but why is there still daily discussions on this device? The DHG-HDDXX0 is all but dead since cable boxes are low cost and tivo's are nearly free now. I even find it remarkable that there is an active collectors market on Ebay for these things

I'd guess most of the boxes sold are still active...so dead it is NOT. I've had one for 2 years, and it is the center of my recording capability. (I also have one of the earlier box, the LG3410a)...now I could have had digital cable for the last 3 years, but that alone would have cost me maybe $2000 bucks or more, and there would be a big problem...I would have all those channels I don't want, AND the quality of the broadcast high-def channels coming over cable is visibly less than the OTA quality as coming from my 2 boxes....and Tivo? I set up a Tivo HD for my Dad, which was convenient for him, because he HAS to rely on cable where he is, and the Tivo remote is good for him to use, unlike the miserable thing Comcast gives you...BUT I wouldn't want the unit, because - as far as I can tell - using the program guide and trying to move forward day by day to check things out is MISERABLE!

So as you see, a lot of people like their Sony's and NOT as collector's items as you imply, but as the best boxes around for their purpose...if you don't understand that, well you don't...

Hey, anybody have a good suggestion of a universal remote that will control these units well? Don't need total control, but something that will give me access to recording lists, guide screens and playback features.

All these responses to Equally-Wrong's post make me think it's time to list my DHG-HDD500 on eBay!! I didn't realize there was still a market, let alone such enthusiasm, for these units. :D I'm glad someone will get good use out of it.

Hey, anybody have a good suggestion of a universal remote that will control these units well? Don't need total control, but something that will give me access to recording lists, guide screens and playback features.

The Harmony remotes do a good job, the only key I had to manually program was the '.' or '-' (whatever you want to call it).

Then again that was 2 years ago so their codes may be updated.

I'm no expert here and likely not using the correct terminology, but I *think* slicing is the method that inserts the 'slicing data' to the broadcasts that show up as CC, TVGOS, etc. For analog this has always been done using 'extra space' in the vertical blanking interval packets. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

My understanding is digital has no use or need for vbi packets, hence a need to insert data in a new manner. So I don't really know how to describe or talk about digital slicing. Hopefully someone more learned here will chime in and help us understand better.


I realize I don't know what digital slicing is, either - does that do something about separating subchannels? or what? I guess I'm going to have to read spiffy's stuff again (though I know it doesn't answer the questions I have above)

My DHGs have TVGOS versions 8.1.42/8.6.44. I wonder if this means that after the analog cut-off, should I lose my downloaded TVGOS software, then I'm out of luck as the default version will not know how to download an update from the digital stream?

-phil

I recall earlier in this post someone reported receiving VBI data through a recording on a VHS. Should you lose your downloaded version, I guess it could be possible to update the TVGOS version with the right VHS recording.

Hey, anybody have a good suggestion of a universal remote that will control these units well? Don't need total control, but something that will give me access to recording lists, guide screens and playback features.2008 model, Philips Universal DVR learning remote control SRU4208WM/17.

Inexpensive, has the Sony code, and the few buttons it doesn't cover can be learned.

I recall earlier in this post someone reported receiving VBI data through a recording on a VHS. Should you lose your downloaded version, I guess it could be possible to update the TVGOS version with the right VHS recording.If we knew when the firmware download occurs, it would be a simple matter to record it (assuming the recorder preserves the entire VBI, which I assume most do). Otherwise, I guess we'd need 24 hours worth, which would be tough to record without interruption. Best bet is to record overnight (I have a DVD recorder that can go up to 6 hours at low quality.) Without such a recording, it would seem from the spreadsheet that the Sonys may become toast after a TVGOS factory reset, which we know we may have to do now and then to solve the lockup problem.

Might it be reasonable to assume the 8.06.44 version downloads during one of these times from Spiff's FAQ (if so, could be recorded in chunks?)
12:41 AM (30 minutes)
1:11 PM (30 minutes)
11:01 PM (30 minutes)
1:16 AM (60 minutes)
5:56 AM (60 minutes)
5:46 PM (60 minutes)
11:36 PM (60 minutes)

2008 model, Philips Universal DVR learning remote control SRU4208WM/17.

Inexpensive, has the Sony code, and the few buttons it doesn't cover can be learned.

That is one a$$-ugly remote, but seems to be exactly what I'm looking for otherwise. Thanks for the tip!

Hey, anybody have a good suggestion of a universal remote that will control these units well? Don't need total control, but something that will give me access to recording lists, guide screens and playback features.

Get the Sony RM-VL600, been using for years with our DHG-HDD500. It even has last channel recall which the original remote does not. It is about $25 at BB etc. You can also custom program (learning mode) buttons, it controls upt to 8 devices. It is super easy to program for both Panasonic and Samsung TV's

The Harmony remotes do a good job ...I found that NOT to be the case. A year ago the Harmony database only had code 50, and the tech support had NO CLUE about supporting code 51 (I have two DHGs). So I returned the 880, and bought a Philips Pronto TSU9400. Now, that is one ultimo programmable remote, even allowing custom graphics and Javascript for custom user functions.

My DHGs have TVGOS versions 8.1.42/8.6.44. I wonder if this means that after the analog cut-off, should I lose my downloaded TVGOS software, then I'm out of luck as the default version will not know how to download an update from the digital stream?

-phil

There was a post quoting a gemstar guy as saying the RCA 800B CECB box passed the guide data and there's speculation that the DTVpal does also. So the correct converter box should solve that problem.

There was a post quoting a gemstar guy as saying the RCA 800B CECB box passed the guide data and there's speculation that the DTVpal does also. So the correct converter box should solve that problem.

So far, no one has reported trying this with the RCA, perhaps because they are so hard to find - I've tried to get one and failed.

As far as the DTVPal is concerned, no one has been able to get TVGOS data from a digital station with it, so far, as reported in the LG3410a thread and the "DTVPal and TVGOS" thread...as to why, Jan J in the 3410 thread reported someone (maybe a Gemstar guy) telling him that in Chicago, at least, they aren't yet broadcasting the "proper" TVGOS data, but no one really knows what that means...

The One For All URC6131N - 6-Device Universal Upgradeable Remote works well for me. It's inexpensive, and controls my Replay/TV, the Sony HDD500, as well as the other standard components. It's a learning remote, so if you have the original remote, that seemed to be the easiest way for me to program some of the functions I wanted. It also had buttons for 2 macros that were long enough for me to turn on close-caption (11 or 13 steps, I seem to recall). Also, the buttons I use most are in the middle so it was easier to use. I tried the Phillips, but the VCR-functions and the number pad were reversed from what I was used to.

As far as the DTVPal is concerned, no one has been able to get TVGOS data from a digital station with it, so far, as reported in the LG3410a thread and the "DTVPal and TVGOS" thread...as to why, Jan J in the 3410 thread reported someone (maybe a Gemstar guy) telling him that in Chicago, at least, they aren't yet broadcasting the "proper" TVGOS data, but no one really knows what that means...Tried the Pal with two different HDD/DVD recorders with TVGOS, and so far, nothing. And Chicago's supposed to be sending the digital data (must not be the "proper" one).

Nobody in the DVD Recorders and CECB forums has gotten it to work yet, either. (I know you know this, but I just thought I'd put it out there for anyone else who isn't aware.)

Haven't gotten around to trying it with the Sony yet.

That is one a$$-ugly remote, but seems to be exactly what I'm looking for otherwise. Thanks for the tip!The reason I mentioned this model is because it's specifically built for PVR usage. It's also brand new, and it carries most or all of the codes for the CECB boxes (that can be controlled by aftermarket remotes - it has a very extensive code list), along with a lot of other, newer stuff (it might even have the code for the Philips 3576H DVR, but I don't have one around to try it with).

It also has backlighting, which the Sony doesn't, but the Sony might be better anyway, because it's got that "last channel" button that works with the DVR.

I compared the two in the stores pretty closely, though, and I think the Philips might have a few more PVR-related buttons (or at least more you can learn to), since it is built especially for those.

...in Chicago, at least, they aren't yet broadcasting the "proper" TVGOS data, but no one really knows what that means...Based on the prevailing theory, I think that means GemStar is not yet delivering TVGOS data (to the CBS stations) customized for the special DTVPal zipcodes. But I'm not sure that explains why you couldn't keep your zipcode the same (i.e. NOT set the Sony to the fake zipcode) and pull standard zipcode data from the converted VBI (Or maybe everybody's so obsessed with following the instructions, nobody's even tried that.)

Interesting data point on the RCA 800B, though.

My DVR flaked out and stopped getting TV Guide Data (but my Pioneer continued fine).

Finally I did a complete reset and it picked up Digital 4-1 CBS as host channel. VBI test pass. But no guide data.

So I looked in the Pioneer TV and noticed it was using Analog 0-25 Fox and working fine.

So I tried to set 0-25 as host Channel and still no guide.

If I run VBI Tests on 0-25 they fail.

What the heck is going on. How is the Pioneer working on 0-25 as host and the Sony DVR won't let me set it to the same channel as host.

The OTA Antenna is evenly split to both devices.

They both tune 25 analog perfectly.

I'm in Boston area (30 miles west) and everything I see on SpiffSpace.com is either potentially 4.1 CBS or PBS 2, no mention of Fox 25 Analog. But I have no VHF antenna and 0-2 can't be received on either device. I always assumed my host was 0-2 Analog PBS even I can't really receive it. Had not really thought about it.

Any ideas?

EDIT: I also don't understand how to "Remap" a channel to try this way of controlling what it uses for the Host. I can Enable and Disable a Channel but how the heck to you remap it. I assume this is talking about the Tuner channels and not the TV-Guide Channels since the TV-Guide channels is empty there is nothing to remap.

What the heck is going on. How is the Pioneer working on 0-25 as host and the Sony DVR won't let me set it to the same channel as host.Maybe the Pioneer doesn't use the same TVGOS version as the DHGs.

Yesterday when looking over all the screens I could find in the Sony Menu - I noticed a couple of things I have not seen before.

The default channel for TV Guide and the Clock is 8-0 (the same analogue PBS it has always been); but the "backup default" for the clock is 26-0. That has changed, because it also use to be 8-0.

There is an ATSC slicer page (I have no idea what that is?). The entire screen is filled in with "zeros"?

The One For All URC6131N - 6-Device Universal Upgradeable Remote works well for me. It's inexpensive, and controls my Replay/TV, the Sony HDD500, as well as the other standard components. It's a learning remote, so if you have the original remote, that seemed to be the easiest way for me to program some of the functions I wanted. It also had buttons for 2 macros that were long enough for me to turn on close-caption (11 or 13 steps, I seem to recall). Also, the buttons I use most are in the middle so it was easier to use. I tried the Phillips, but the VCR-functions and the number pad were reversed from what I was used to.

Looking at the pic of that remote on the OFA website, I may have one of those at my house. I bought a OFA remote in hopes of using it to control an older, analog DVR a while back, and when it didn't work, I think it got tucked away somewhere. I'll have to try to locate that and see if it'll do the trick.

EDIT: I also don't understand how to "Remap" a channel to try this way of controlling what it uses for the Host. I can Enable and Disable a Channel but how the heck to you remap it. I assume this is talking about the Tuner channels and not the TV-Guide Channels since the TV-Guide channels is empty there is nothing to remap.

Since 0-25 or WFXT Fox 25 is the host "station" that your box is set to, you can control the actual host "channel" in the TV Guide channel edit. I'm assuming you have a WFXT Antenna and a WFXT Cable. Edit the channel for WFXT Antenna to be 25. Turn WFXT Antenna on in the guide.

(It may still work with WFXT Antenna turned off - you can try that later once you have this working. Mine works with the host CFTO Cable 13 off, as long as it's partner CFTO Antenna is on - even though CFTO Antenna is set to a digital station 9.1 that has no TV Guide.).

If you don't like the fact that WFXT is now set to analog 25 because you watch HD instead, use one of the other spares such as WFXT-HD Antenna and set that to 25.1 for daily viewing.

I'm sorry in advance, but why is there still daily discussions on this device? The DHG-HDDXX0 is all but dead since cable boxes are low cost and tivo's are nearly free now. I even find it remarkable that there is an active collectors market on Ebay for these things which explains why someone is still willing to pay $700+ for the 500. I don't want to rain on anyones parade but for the people that are viewing this as a collectors item what is your basis? Is it because it was Sony's last hard drive based DVR? For those that are using theirs daily please accept my apology, I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just having a difficult time understanding why aftermarket is still active and way overpriced.

Easy answer for me & my family :

1) Only box that records OTA HD in actual HD.

2) Free OTA HD. (So I only have to subscribe to analog cable, saves $400/yr - $2,000/5 yrs that we can spend on other things).

3) Price. Cost me $300. My cable company's HD-DVR cost $600 at the time. Another $300 saved. (Cable box still only down to $500 as of today).

4) Only box that seemlessly combines OTA and Cable into one TV Guide.

5) Our cable company doesn't include the OTA sub-channels and several of the minor networks.

6) All of its other nice features & perks.

7) Freedom from the choking grasp of a monopoly.

I agree with everything cxgy said, this box may have been the best $290 bucks I've spent. I am hoping that the Echostar TR-50 is all that it's cracked up to be, but even if and when I get one of those, the Sony will stay in use.

couldn't agree with you more. Currently - our tv viewing is using the '500' as prime controller - with the remote also being used to control most of our other entertainment equipment. Wish - we could get a definitive answer whether the 250/500 will continue to work after digital switch. It's become almost a matter of pride - to be able to say we are not cable subscribers - and the OTA high def is just tops. My wife asked me about the Aquos LCD TV - and my response is "what could it have to offer - beyond maybe a larger screen? Our OTA / Toshiba / Sony DHG500 / is that good.
Barry

Since 0-25 or WFXT Fox 25 is the host "station" that your box is set to, you can control the actual host "channel" in the TV Guide channel edit. I'm assuming you have a WFXT Antenna and a WFXT Cable. Edit the channel for WFXT Antenna to be 25. Turn WFXT Antenna on in the guide.

Until he can get at least one TVGOS update he doesn't have any TVGuide channels to edit????

There is an ATSC slicer page (I have no idea what that is?). The entire screen is filled in with "zeros"?
ATSC slicer has been their forever (Since 2005). I have mentioned it in numerous TVGOS over CBS digital post over the last year.

My DVR flaked out and stopped getting TV Guide Data (but my Pioneer continued fine).

Finally I did a complete reset and it picked up Digital 4-1 CBS as host channel. VBI test pass. But no guide data.

So I looked in the Pioneer TV and noticed it was using Analog 0-25 Fox and working fine.

So I tried to set 0-25 as host Channel and still no guide.

If I run VBI Tests on 0-25 they fail.

What the heck is going on. How is the Pioneer working on 0-25 as host and the Sony DVR won't let me set it to the same channel as host.

The OTA Antenna is evenly split to both devices.

They both tune 25 analog perfectly.

I'm in Boston area (30 miles west) and everything I see on SpiffSpace.com is either potentially 4.1 CBS or PBS 2, no mention of Fox 25 Analog. But I have no VHF antenna and 0-2 can't be received on either device. I always assumed my host was 0-2 Analog PBS even I can't really receive it. Had not really thought about it.

Any ideas?

EDIT: I also don't understand how to "Remap" a channel to try this way of controlling what it uses for the Host. I can Enable and Disable a Channel but how the heck to you remap it. I assume this is talking about the Tuner channels and not the TV-Guide Channels since the TV-Guide channels is empty there is nothing to remap.

I finally got it working. I had tried things in sequence a day apart one thing at a time. I had tried a full reset one day which then grabbed the wrong VBI channel. Then only reset TV Guide to clear it before trying to force it another day. This time, all at once, I did a Full reset again, Updated Firmware, Shutoff the wrong VBI channel so it wouldn't pick it up and Forced it to the correct channel. That left it with 4 bars for clock and it didn't pick up the clock at all (even a wrong one). Without the clock I don't it will attempt anything and it did nothing overnight. So then I unplugged it and plugged it in. Now it had 12:00 noon time. I verified that the correct VBI was still being forced with "753..." menu. I didn't expect it to even attempt until overnight. But when I got home this evening clock was correct and TV-Guide was loaded (During the middle of the day !!). VBI channel is same as pioneer. I turned the wrong VBI channel back on. So I'll know in a few weeks if it still all sticks but I think it will. But so far so good.

So I think the problem was it was still getting time from the wrong VBI channel and it would not force to another channel. WHen I reset everything and disabled the wrong VBI channel it had no clock no nothing and was in limbo. I think when I unplugged it, it allowed the forced VBI channel to be clock and then later got the TV Guide.

Something like that anyway.

G Test now works on the correct VBI channel. So to pass the test it must be the "active" VBI channel. It sort of said this on the FAQ but it was subtle and I wasn't sure.

See ya all in Feb 2009 :-)

Until he can get at least one TVGOS update he doesn't have any TVGuide channels to edit????

Oops..I should learn to read more thoroughly.

ATSC slicer has been their forever (Since 2005). I have mentioned it in numerous TVGOS over CBS digital post over the last year.

I don't know what a digital slicer is, either, and I've read the Spiffy site pretty carefully....it does mention "resetting slicing data", which would be easier to understand if you knew what slicing data was...although I'm getting some vague idea, having read a little more carefully about 20 posts that mention it that I really couldn't interpret as they came through over a period of many months

Given the interest in what's going to happen with the Sony come February, and in how to check with the Sony about whether there's TVGOS data on a given channel (whether analog or digital), would it be possible for those who are more experienced to maybe add summary of this topic to that page?

Please....?

Or have I somehow skipped it?

The One For All URC6131N - 6-Device Universal Upgradeable Remote works well for me. It's inexpensive, and controls my Replay/TV, the Sony HDD500, as well as the other standard components. It's a learning remote, so if you have the original remote, that seemed to be the easiest way for me to program some of the functions I wanted. It also had buttons for 2 macros that were long enough for me to turn on close-caption (11 or 13 steps, I seem to recall). Also, the buttons I use most are in the middle so it was easier to use. I tried the Phillips, but the VCR-functions and the number pad were reversed from what I was used to.

Do you know what code you used for the Sony with this remote? I found my 6131n the other day, but of course the code list has no listings for any DVR/PVR codes, even though the remote has a PVR button on it. Lookup on the OFA website gives nothing either.

I don't know what a digital slicer is, either, and I've read the Spiffy site pretty carefully....it does mention "resetting slicing data", which would be easier to understand if you knew what slicing data was...although I'm getting some vague idea, having read a little more carefully about 20 posts that mention it that I really couldn't interpret as they came through over a period of many months

Given the interest in what's going to happen with the Sony come February, and in how to check with the Sony about whether there's TVGOS data on a given channel (whether analog or digital), would it be possible for those who are more experienced to maybe add summary of this topic to that page?

Please....?

Or have I somehow skipped it?

I too have been following this forum because I have 2 sony's. I contacted my local CBS station and was told they have installed the TVGOS equipment and are currently transmitting the guide data. I would like to force my dvr to the cbs digital station, but am kinda lost on how to perfrom the changes. I've read many posts here by many people on what they have tried so far. Could one of you post the "step by step" instructions for the rest of us to use? Thanks

I too have been following this forum because I have 2 sony's. I contacted my local CBS station and was told they have installed the TVGOS equipment and are currently transmitting the guide data. I would like to force my dvr to the cbs digital station, but am kinda lost on how to perfrom the changes. I've read many posts here by many people on what they have tried so far. Could one of you post the "step by step" instructions for the rest of us to use? Thanks

I have been checking this thread only intermittently lately because I don't have a lot of free time anymore...

I don't believe that you will reliably keep your DVR using the digital host channel until the analog hosts are all GONE. This DVR has a preference for the analog hosts, so if it finds one, it will switch to it - even if it already has the digital host and it is working fine.

I have been checking this thread only intermittently lately because I don't have a lot of free time anymore...

I don't believe that you will reliably keep your DVR using the digital host channel until the analog hosts are all GONE. This DVR has a preference for the analog hosts, so if it finds one, it will switch to it - even if it already has the digital host and it is working fine.


Yes, I realize the fact that it will revert to analog until Feb 09. But right now I just want to test out the digital TVGOS being broadcast by WLNS 6-1 in Lansing and I was hoping someone could publish the "step by step" instructions on how to force the Sony to accept a digital TVGOS. thanks

Yes, I realize the fact that it will revert to analog until Feb 09. But right now I just want to test out the digital TVGOS being broadcast by WLNS 6-1 in Lansing and I was hoping someone could publish the "step by step" instructions on how to force the Sony to accept a digital TVGOS. thanksMine has been stuck on the digital host for quite a few days now. Here is how I did it, but I can't guarantee it will work as I fiddled with it quite a bit prior to this and nothing would work:

1. Turn the unit on, tune it to your digital host channel, and then bring up the TV Guide listings.

2. Push the "CH" (PAGE) up button one or more times until the highlighted line is all the way up in the menu bar on "LISTINGS".

3. Push the right arrow on the menu navigation circle twice to "SETUP".

4. Push the down arrow on the menu navigation circle once to "Change System Settings".

5. Push "INFO". The white box will contain some jabber about zipcodes, etc.

6. Enter the following number: 963214785

7. The white box should now say "VBI Search Current Channel".

8. Immediately press the DVR Power button on the remote to turn the unit "off".

9. Do nothing until the next morning.

10. The next morning, turn on the unit and bring up the TV Guide listings.

11. Push the "CH" (PAGE) up button one or more times until the highlighted line is all the way up in the menu bar on "LISTINGS".

12. Push the right arrow on the menu navigation circle twice to "SETUP".

13. Push the down arrow on the menu navigation circle once to "Change System Settings".

14. Enter the following number: 753159852

15. Press the right arrow on the menu navigation circle once. You should see the "Host chan" listed a little way down the list.

16. It will either be your analog host channel in the form 0:0-# (or 1:0-# for cable) in which case it didn't work; Or it will be your digital host channel in the form 0:#-# (or 1:#-#) in which case it DID (hooray) work.

I've been happy with the Sony Universal RM VL600 for $20. Find it practically anywhere and has the Guide & Menu buttons and big Volume & Channel buttons. Using it for two of my DHG's.

I've been happy with the Sony Universal RM VL600 for $20. Find it practically anywhere and has the Guide & Menu buttons and big Volume & Channel buttons. Using it for two of my DHG's.

Where did you get the codes for the DHG? The Sony web site gives codes for lots of devices, except none for the DHG.

Ray

Where did you get the codes for the DHG? The Sony web site gives codes for lots of devices, except none for the DHG.

Ray

I got the Sony VL600 about a month ago at the suggestion of HoustonPerson and set it up with my DHG, Sony CRT HDTV and 3 other devices...the booklet with it has codes for DVRs, including Sony, and I think it was the last one in that list (3210) that worked for my Sony 250...made it easy...still had to teach it a couple of codes...but it was a piece of cake compared with teaching the remote for the other devices I have...

once done, it's the only remote I use for everything, unless I'm doing some peculiar setup thing, and that's rare

I got the Sony VL600 about a month ago at the suggestion of HoustonPerson and set it up with my DHG, Sony CRT HDTV and 3 other devices...the booklet with it has codes for DVRs, including Sony, and I think it was the last one in that list (3210) that worked for my Sony 250...made it easy...still had to teach it a couple of codes...but it was a piece of cake compared with teaching the remote for the other devices I have...

once done, it's the only remote I use for everything, unless I'm doing some peculiar setup thing, and that's rare

Does the "RECALL" button on the VL600 work with the DHG to change to previous channel?

First issue with my unit since I purchased it. I am getting a rolling, strobing effect via my component cables on my screen. If I use HDMI it goes away. I did try another set of cables with the same results. Anyone else experienced this?

I had Motorola m-card cablecards installed in my two 500's and for 2 weeks the guide data appeared with no issues. Now all of a sudden the guide data is no longer populating. I have today and Sat and that's all. Has anyone else had this problem and what did you do to resolve it?
Thanks

Does the "RECALL" button on the VL600 work with the DHG to change to previous channel?Don't have one myself, but it's been said to do so by quite a few people here (pre-programmed).

Kong -

Did you try the DHG with a different display? Maybe it's your TV???

I have only have 1 set-up for display. It worked perfect 2 days prior to this rolling, strobing look. Like I said, once I go to HDMI it goes away??? I even switched inputs on my receiver and same problem.

Frank70, thanks for the step by step instructions - I have two Sony DHGs. I'm new to this forum, so I'm going to ask a stupid question. My local CBS station has told me they are digitally broadcasting (OTA) TVGOS. Do I need a digital to analog converter device (such as the DTVPal I've been reading about) to see if my Sony DVRs can successfully process the digital TVGOS, or do I just need an up to date version of the TVGOS or DHG firmware?

Frank70, thanks for the step by step instructions - I have two Sony DHGs. I'm new to this forum, so I'm going to ask a stupid question. My local CBS station has told me they are digitally broadcasting (OTA) TVGOS. Do I need a digital to analog converter device (such as the DTVPal I've been reading about) to see if my Sony DVRs can successfully process the digital TVGOS, or do I just need an up to date version of the TVGOS or DHG firmware?Assuming you're already getting guide data via analog and ads are showing up to the left of the guide, you should have firmware version 8.01.42/8.06.44 as you can confirm on the first screen of the 753159852 test. I would suggest you then tune to your CBS station and run the TV Guide G* test (Menu | Screen Mode | 9012 | TV Guide | G* Factory Test). If the VBI field on that screen is incrementing (about once a second or faster), that indicates that the CBS station is indeed transmitting TVGOS and your Sony is receiving it; in fact, if you were to just leave the box alone without changing anything after running the test, and let it sit turned on overnight, it would download the day-8 data (and other days) from the CBS station - then you could page out to day 8, and if it's filled in, you're good to go. The only difficult part is forcing that station to be the VBI Host so it will use it when powered off - thus the subject of the previous posting.

Does the "RECALL" button on the VL600 work with the DHG to change to previous channel?

Yes, right out of the box, no programming required. In many way the VL600 is "better" than the original remote with the DHG!

Have any Comcast subscribers in the southeastern Connecticut area noticed the fact the guide data is missing? Transmission appears to have stopped on Saturday the 19th. The only way you'll notice it is if you look forward to at least next Saturday. I found out because a neighbor of mine, who has a Sony television sets which uses the data, was missing it over the weekend.

Thanks. JLOB

Have any Comcast subscribers in the southeastern Connecticut area noticed the fact the guide data is missing? Transmission appears to have stopped on Saturday the 19th.

Thanks. JLOB

If you're getting it from PBS 13 in NYC, it was also out for Cablevision in NJ. Missed two days but it came back.

I have Comcast in northern New Jersey and missed two days(This coming Sat and Sun). Week before Sunday was missed. Most likely Ch.13 problem.

Hi Folks,

I bought a RX-V663 and am trying to program the DVR remote code for my DHG-HDD250.

Does anyone know the 4-digit code that will work? I tried all the ones in the Yahama manual, but none seem to work on my unit.

Thanks.

Was having a recording issue. On certain digital channels I would set a recording or do a live pause. After this would push play and video would freeze with working audio. After 10-15 seconds audio woul fail and video goes black.

Got a new motorola cablecard from Insight installed in my 250. Seemed to have fixed the issue. Went into the setup menu and selected the Insight Digital tv guide lineup. Then tried recording and the previous problems are happening again.

Any ideas?

Hey, anybody have a good suggestion of a universal remote that will control these units well? Don't need total control, but something that will give me access to recording lists, guide screens and playback features.
I've got a low end Logitech Harmony 520 and it completely controls my DHG-HDD250.
I did have to map the "*" key to a ".*, but after that, it works perfectly.

Dan (Woj...)

In the DTVPal technical/TVGOS thread Francie Bauer, communications manager at Dish/Echostar, states that CBS digital stations are already providing 65% coverage of the country with TVGOS data (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14351734#post14351734) Sound likely?

It turns out that the DTVPal wants to set its clock based on the CBS station time, and it will identify this station by detecting the digital TVGOS data...or at least this is how the Pal is supposed to do it, once they get it working right.:p

In response to a query from me as to whether or not the Little Rock CBS station would be transmitting the TVGOS via digital channel, the chief enginerr responded as below:

------------------------------------------------------
The answer to your question yes, but not yet. We are going through the motions of preparing for the installation right now. I cannot give you an installation date but I am told it should be “soon”. We will put a unit here at the studio that will insert the data onto 11-1. I hope that information helps. Let me know if you have any further questions.

Alison Fletcher
Director of Technology
Today's THV

--------------------------------------------------------

So now the question, will the current Sony firmware receive it or will TVGOS version 9 be required?

In response to a query from me as to whether or not the Little Rock CBS station would be transmitting the TVGOS via digital channel, the chief enginerr responded as below:

------------------------------------------------------
The answer to your question yes, but not yet. We are going through the motions of preparing for the installation right now. I cannot give you an installation date but I am told it should be “soon”. We will put a unit here at the studio that will insert the data onto 11-1. I hope that information helps. Let me know if you have any further questions.

Alison Fletcher
Director of Technology
Today's THV

--------------------------------------------------------

So now the question, will the current Sony firmware receive it or will TVGOS version 9 be required?

You might ask this same guy to inquire of his Gemstar contacts, "what versions of TV Guide will be provided data?"

If you get an answer to that question, you will be doing a LOT of people a favor!!!

(My guess is that the guy at the station won't know anything about WHAT TVGOS data is being transmitted...I think they only set things up so the data can be inserted, without knowing much else about it.

Hi - because people in the DTVPal techical/TVGOS thread have also started trying to find out which CBS digital stations are already transmitting TVGOS data, I've started a post there where I will try to keep a list of such stations, including reference in each case to a post that indicates HOW it is known that that station is transmitting the TVGOS data. (Here's the post that I've started, which doesn't have many entries: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14362176#post14362176)

I wanted to include the three cases referred to in this thread as having TVGOS data, and I did a search on those city names for THIS thread, but the only one that led me back to where the TVGOS data was seen - or otherwise known - was Minneapolis.

I know that Spiffy's summary and other posts say that TVGOS data are also known to be coming over the Los Angeles and San Francisco stations, but I couldn't find where or how this was determined. Can someone point me to a post or posts indicating HOW?

(In that other thread, just got a post confirming the LA station is carrying TVGOS data..)

Thanks - Tony

So if we do need to upgrade software to version 9, how can this be done? OTA? Thumb drive? Or will we have to ship our units in to Sony to have this done?

Thanks

So if we do need to upgrade software to version 9, how can this be done? OTA? Thumb drive? Or will we have to ship our units in to Sony to have this done?

Thanks

I don't think you can upgrade a unit's version...

within a version you can get updates, as our version 8 Sonys have been getting...

KYW-DT, CBS 3.1 in Philly, is definitely broadcasting TVGOS in a format that 8.06.44 on the Sony can receive. I suspect if I ever need to revert to 8.01.42 (factory reset), I'll be screwed.

Tony,

I've successfully gotten digital TVGOS from KPIX-DT (5.1) here in the Bay Area (but never posted after stating that I saw the packets). I let the unit go back to KQED analog, for general use

Rick

Hi...the post I've set up to list confirmed sightings of TVGOS data on CBS digiital stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14362176#post14362176) now has 7 stations listed.

You might ask this same guy to inquire of his Gemstar contacts, "what versions of TV Guide will be provided data?"

If you get an answer to that question, you will be doing a LOT of people a favor!!!

(My guess is that the guy at the station won't know anything about WHAT TVGOS data is being transmitted...I think they only set things up so the data can be inserted, without knowing much else about it.
As you suspected, the Little Rock CBS station said he won't know "until the unit gets here." Sorry, it is encouraging that the latest TVGOS version is receiving the digital data from the few outlets you have begun to list. Thanks, by the way.

As you suspected, the Little Rock CBS station said he won't know "until the unit gets here." Sorry, it is encouraging that the latest TVGOS version is receiving the digital data from the few outlets you have begun to list. Thanks, by the way.
Should read Sorry, but it is encouraging....

Wouldn't it be in TVGOS best interest to actually provide the stations that offer their service? As far as I can tell Denver doesn't have it on the CBS digital station.

Wouldn't it be in TVGOS best interest to actually provide the stations that offer their service? As far as I can tell Denver doesn't have it on the CBS digital station.
you mean provide the list? I would think so, but I believe they have a very firm policy of not providing details of their broadcast system, EVEN to the staff at the stations through which they broadcast!

The only info they seem to provide directly to the PUBLIC is how to use the TV Guide in the devices they own...period.

Confused.
Separate from the digital TVGOS subject, can someone tell me what my DHG will be able to tune after the digital trans in Feb?
I have analog cable service (about 75 channels). I do not subscribe to digital 'tier' cable service.
I'm confused on what it will tune. OTA is an option and I'm near the towers. Will local HDs continue OTA?
A near future including rented cableco DVRs is my version of future shock and dread. I also have a Sony DVDR and wonder what it will tune, it has TVGOS too.

Assuming you're already getting guide data via analog and ads are showing up to the left of the guide, you should have firmware version 8.01.42/8.06.44 as you can confirm on the first screen of the 753159852 test. I would suggest you then tune to your CBS station and run the TV Guide G* test (Menu | Screen Mode | 9012 | TV Guide | G* Factory Test). If the VBI field on that screen is incrementing (about once a second or faster), that indicates that the CBS station is indeed transmitting TVGOS and your Sony is receiving it; in fact, if you were to just leave the box alone without changing anything after running the test, and let it sit turned on overnight, it would download the day-8 data (and other days) from the CBS station - then you could page out to day 8, and if it's filled in, you're good to go. The only difficult part is forcing that station to be the VBI Host so it will use it when powered off - thus the subject of the previous posting.

Hi...I decided to familiarize myself with how the G test and other menus work in order to test my DTVPal unit (due to arrive tomorrow) to see whether the "Pal" actually converts TVGOS data (for use with my LG3410a), but I ran into some questions, which perhaps someone can help me with...

1 - frank70, who has had success getting data from his local CBS digital station, says above that tuning to the local digital station and performing the G test indicates whether TVGOS data is being transmitted. However, the screen refers to vbi packets, not specifically to TVGOS packets, and indeed that is what spiffy's manual says...am I missing something here?

In any case, I did see vbi packets for both my analog PBS station, which WAS my host channel (see below), and for the CBS digital station (which others have previously found to have TVGOS data)

And I did notice that when I tuned to our local ABC digital station, I did NOT get vbi packets being counted - of course, I don't expect to get vbi packets from ANY digital station...aren't they a feature of analog transmissions?

but whatever the G test was counting, I'm hoping it IS specific to TVGOS, as suggested by which channels it shows up on!

2 - I also had a look at all the TV Guide related screens that are available via the 753159852 menu...as I expected, PBS analog channel 9 was identified as host channel...as it had been when I had looked at this before.

I look at the slicing data screen, but couldn't really interpret anything...

I skipped the "vbi search current channel" option...didn't want to fiddle that seriously at this point...

I went on to "reset slicing data", and decided to try that, figuring it might show me something from a fresh slicing screen that I could interpret...

But guess what? After doing that, and going back to the guide to have a look at the slicing screen again...no guide data left. oops! that wasn't mentioned!

all I had for data was "There is no data for this screen." Well ok, it'll come back eventually.

ALSO - checked the screen with host channel, etc - the host channel entry is BLANK! I haven't seen that before. I check my recordings list, and (thankfully) that's still there.

I guess I will look at this as an opportunity to try tuning to the digital CBS channel and leaving the unit ON overnight to see whether I get guide data overnight from that channel, as it was said (again, I think by frank70) would happen...

Any thoughts on my puzzlement over referring to "vbi" data from digital stations? And maybe the description of "reset slicing data" should mention it clears the host channel AND the program guide (at least it did for me)...

Confused.
Separate from the digital TVGOS subject, can someone tell me what my DHG will be able to tune after the digital trans in Feb?
I have analog cable service (about 75 channels). I do not subscribe to digital 'tier' cable service.
I'm confused on what it will tune. OTA is an option and I'm near the towers. Will local HDs continue OTA?
The digital transition next February does not apply to cable TV, only to broadcast TV. The cable company can continue to provide analog cable channels. However, the cable company will get the digital signal from the local PBS station and convert that to digital which is likely - someone correct me if I am wrong - to not pass the TVGOS onto the Sony. But the Sony might be able to get the data from the digital locals on the cable system. Don't know. Have you recently done a digital QAM cable scan? The local digital stations are usually provided in the clear.

BTW, the cable companies can go all digital if they provide low cost STBs to the remaining analog subscribers. Comcast has announced, IIRC, they plan to convert 20% of their franchise areas to all digital in the next year. The analog channels are a major bandwidth hog, so the cable companies have good reason to reduce the number of analog channels and where feasible, drop them entirely.

After next February 17, the local stations of course will continue to provide digital broadcasting with HD and SD sub-channels. You have a HD-DVR with a ATSC tuner. I use my Sony 250 strictly for recording the local digital broadcast stations. Check the resources in the HDTV technical forum for info on what antenna setup you might need. If you are close to the towers, a basic $10-$15 tabletop VHF rabbit ear and UHF loop antenna may be all you need.

To report on the results of leaving my Sony on overnight after doing a G-test on the San Francisco CBS digital station: no results of any kind.

As I noted in my post of yesterday, I had used the "reset slicing data" code, which had surprised me by deleting all the guide program data and cleared my host channel. This morning, I found that the guide screen still read "There is no data for this screen."

So I turned off the unit during the day, and when I checked in the afternoon, when I brought up the guide screen, it was asking me to select among setup options, including "San Francisco OTA", which I selected. I was then presented with the normal guide screen, filled with "no listing". AND, when I checked for host channel, it gave me the local PBS analog station.

So what I got overnight was zilch, and what I got during the day was the TV Guide setup data (at which point I was also able to reorder the channels in the guide screen as I had them before). I believe that, if the unit was able to get TVGOS data from the digital CBS station in the state I left it in, I would have found it in the AM with the TV Guide setup data and with a host channel of 5-1.

I may try it again tonight, already having the setup data, but I expect to find the same result, though I may be wrong. But first, I think I'm going to connect up the DTVPal I just got, in TVGOS mode, to see what the G test shows on the converted CBS channel.

I may try it again tonight, already having the setup data, but I expect to find the same result, though I may be wrong. But first, I think I'm going to connect up the DTVPal I just got, in TVGOS mode, to see what the G test shows on the converted CBS channel.

Please let us know how that goes. I haven't seen any positive reports that using the DTVPal works in this mode, yet.

-phil

Hi - so I DID leave my unit tuned to CBS 5.1 overnight after doing a G test (which showed vbi packets) and leaving the unit untouched from that point.

Today at 9:15 AM I hit the guide button, and found I had received EIGHT days of listings!

With this result, I assumed they MUST have come from the CBS station, since I had never seen anything like this from PBS analog, BUT - when I went into the TV Guide service menu - I found analog 9 (my usual PBS source) was given as the host channel - go figure...

As for the DTVPal...no positive results, either. When I checked the converted output (of CBS 5.1) from the DTVPal (coming via channel 3), the G test showed NO vbi packets. Aside from the negative test itself, I found this very puzzling, because - when I set my Sony to see closed captions on the channel 3 output - I DID see closed captions. SInce these come via vbi on analog channels, the output clearly IS carrying SOME vbi data.

Does this mean that what the G test is measuring is actual TVGOS packets? If so, why did I fail to get TVGOS data from 5.1? OR why did I get 8 days of data WITH THE UNIT ON from analog PBS 9?

too many questions..

I plan to directly test the DTVPal with my LG3410a tonight...but I don't expect a good result.

Hi - so I DID leave my unit tuned to CBS 5.1 overnight after doing a G test (which showed vbi packets) and leaving the unit untouched from that point. Today at 9:15 AM I hit the guide button, and found I had received EIGHT days of listings!I would have expected you only to have gotten day 1,2,5,8, but it's interesting you got them all - that perhaps means the digital data is a superset of the analog data.With this result, I assumed they MUST have come from the CBS station, since I had never seen anything like this from PBS analog, BUT - when I went into the TV Guide service menu - I found analog 9 (my usual PBS source) was given as the host channel - go figure...Running the G* test and then leaving the unit ON tuned to the same (CBS) channel overrides the host channel listed in the service menu - that channel is the one used when the unit is OFF.As for the DTVPal...no positive results, either. When I checked the converted output (of CBS 5.1) from the DTVPal (coming via channel 3), the G test showed NO vbi packets. Aside from the negative test itself, I found this very puzzling, because - when I set my Sony to see closed captions on the channel 3 output - I DID see closed captions. SInce these come via vbi on analog channels, the output clearly IS carrying SOME vbi data.The box can choose which VBI-in-PSIP data it wants to convert to real analog VBI; the feds mandate that it convert CC, so that's why it goes thru; for any box to convert TVGOS would be completely at its discretion... however the DTVPal is supposed to have a mode that does convert TVGOS data - it's just not the normal mode, you have to follow a very specific set of instructions detailed in the manual to enable that mode, including changing the Sony's zip code - so far only one person on the DTVPal thread has gotten this to work with an analog-only TVGOS device, by following the instructions to the letter. However, the instructions require the ability of the TVGOS device to signal the DTVPal via IR-Blaster to change channels so it can go through its Host Channel search ritual, and the Sony can't control anything via the IR-Blaster except a VCR, so I think we're screwed on that account.Does this mean that what the G test is measuring is actual TVGOS packets? If so, why did I fail to get TVGOS data from 5.1? OR why did I get 8 days of data WITH THE UNIT ON from analog PBS 9?Yes, it means the G* test is indicating the presence or absence of actual TVGOS VBI packets, not CC or anything else. When you left the unit ON tuned to 5.1, you WERE getting guide data from 5.1 (the Host Channel has no effect on this.) It is VERY DIFFICULT to get the Host Channel to change to a digital channel while the current analog Host Channel is still broadcasting TVGOS (I happened onto it once by dumb luck,) so that is why you didn't get TVGOS data from 5.1 while the unit was off.

The stop-gap measure is just to always leave your Sony turned ON (which for all practical purposes it is anyway when it's "off"), and run the G* test on 5.1 before you go to bed each night (if you've changed channels since the last time you did that).

I would have expected you only to have gotten day 1,2,5,8, but it's interesting you got them all - that perhaps means the digital data is a superset of the analog data.
yes - very interesting
Running the G* test and then leaving the unit ON tuned to the same (CBS) channel overrides the host channel listed in the service menu - that channel is the one used when the unit is OFF.
That would explain what I saw...
...However, the instructions require the ability of the TVGOS device to signal the DTVPal via IR-Blaster to change channels so it can go through its Host Channel search ritual, and the Sony can't control anything via the IR-Blaster except a VCR, so I think we're screwed on that account.
I initially set up the DTVPal in normal mode, and checked for packets with the results as indicated, as well as checking for closed caption.

I then left it tuned to CBS 5.1 and went into TVGOS mode, at which point it was STILL converting that channel as before, and with the same G test and closed caption characteristics. I expect that HOW it passes the channel isn't affected by HOW you set up the receiving TV Guide device.

The setup described in the DTVPal appendix is for analog TV Guide devices, and - regardless of that - I wanted to check how it passed the converted channel and associated TVGOS data (if any). IF my overnight test shows that 5.1 has the TVGOS data (as you think it does, and I hope), then I expect that the DTVPal will pass that data. But the packet test on the converted channel makes me think that either it doesn't (which contradicts info I've gotten and will post separately) OR the data isn't yet in "proper" form, as has been discussed in the 3410a thread, OR you are right that the DTVPal can only be used with the TV Guide device getting the data ONLY after IT has switched the DTVPal to the proper channel (which wouldn't work for the LG3410a)...complicated logic, I know.

As to your statement about the G test only measuring TVGOS packets, I hope you're right, and - if so - we ought to change what Spiffy's manual says.

And in any case, I think there ought to be a comment about the "reset slicing data" service code also clearing the TV Guide screen of not only info, but resetting the guide to scratch, as well as clearing the host channel.

And, in any case, thanks for your help on this...

As to your statement about the G test only measuring TVGOS packets, I hope you're right, and - if so - we ought to change what Spiffy's manual says.On an analog channel, I've seen the VBI count increment on non-TVGOS channels, possibly due to CC, but more likely from some other VBI content. On a digital channel, if it isn't sending TVGOS data, I've never seen it increment, even if the channel sends CC data.

So for an analog input from DTVPal, it's necessary but not sufficient to see the count incrementing for TVGOS data to be received; the acid test for TVGOS, if the VBI count is incrementing, is to leave it overnight and see if day 8 guide has filled in. If the VBI count isn't incrementing, I don't think you have a prayer.

For a digital channel from your antenna, I believe it is sufficient to see the incrementing count to assume TVGOS data is being received.

On an analog channel, I've seen the VBI count increment on non-TVGOS channels, possibly due to CC, but more likely from some other VBI content. On a digital channel, if it isn't sending TVGOS data, I've never seen it increment, even if the channel sends CC data.

So for an analog input from DTVPal, it's necessary but not sufficient to see the count incrementing for TVGOS data to be received; the acid test for TVGOS, if the VBI count is incrementing, is to leave it overnight and see if day 8 guide has filled in. If the VBI count isn't incrementing, I don't think you have a prayer.

For a digital channel from your antenna, I believe it is sufficient to see the incrementing count to assume TVGOS data is being received.

Yes, to the extent I have checked digital channels, CBS 5.1 is the only one that shows VBI packets. And, of course, they would have to actually be TVGOS, not vbi packets - since digital doesn't have them.

As for analog, I still do not understand why the converted output from the DTVPal of 5.1 did not show vbi packets - since CC on the converted signal HAS to be coming via vbi, which is the only way analog carries it. And it seems to me that when I checked normal analog stations with the G test, they all showed vbi packets (as they have to because of CC). Still puzzled about this.

(On my 3410a overnight, no TVGOS data from the converted 5.1, and subsequently the host channel showed as 0... I restored it to normal operation in the hope of getting data from my analog station by evening...)

As for analog, I still do not understand why the converted output from the DTVPal of 5.1 did not show vbi packets - since CC on the converted signal HAS to be coming via vbi, which is the only way analog carries it. And it seems to me that when I checked normal analog stations with the G test, they all showed vbi packets (as they have to because of CC). Still puzzled about this.I suspect the CC VBI doesn't count toward the VBI test, but there are other things besides CC and TVGOS hiding in the VBI, for example station name, current program name, and parental control data. I know for sure many stations broadcast the current program name, because I have a DVD recorder that obediently picks up and displays the program name with each recording. It's quite possible (and rather probable) that only the CC and parental control data get converted to true VBI to be included with the analog output, as that is all the feds mandate for a CECB.

For those of us who love the unit but are not following this super long thread on a regular basis, what is the status of any Sony response so far?
It seems that some digital stations are transmitting TVGOS data but is Sony equipped to use them like that from analog?
Since some NC town is going completely digital in a month we need to know pretty soon if our DHGs will have all recorded shows as "no listings".
Thanks for sharing the info.

It seems that some digital stations are transmitting TVGOS data but is Sony equipped to use them like that from analog?

The short answer is "as long as you don't have to do a factory reset after 2/17/09 you're DHG will be fine (assuming your local CBS is broadcasting digital TVGOS)".

The long answer is buried in this thread.

-phil

Yeah, I'm GodobeHD, I'm enjoying my unit right now, but I don't have the time, energy or knowledge to run all these VBI tests and other things folks keep talking about, I just want a yes or no answer to the question "Will my Sony HD DVR work after Feb. 17?" Honestly though, I'm not too worried about it right now. I'll start thinking about it around the end of January. :)

The short answer is "as long as you don't have to do a factory reset after 2/17/09 you're DHG will be fine (assuming your local CBS is broadcasting digital TVGOS)".

-phil

Do you mean that the DHGs already know how to put out the Guide from a digital channel? I still have the original version of the firmware, does it do that?

Do you mean that the DHGs already know how to put out the Guide from a digital channel? I still have the original version of the firmware, does it do that?If you run the 753159852 TVGOS test, the first screen shows you your original and current firmware versions. Mine say "08.01.42/08.06.44". The key here is that the current firmware version reportedly needs to say 08.01.65 or later in order to receive guide from CBS digital stations. Since this newer version is downloaded via the guide data itself, virtually everyone, regardless of their original version, should have 08.06.44 (this is the version that shows ads.) This would seem peachy keen were it not for the fact that sometimes the TVGOS system hangs up severely enough to require a TVGOS factory reset, which causes the firmware to revert to the original version for a day or so until it downloads the 08.06.44 version from the data stream. According to this source: (see the attachment to http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14280232#post14280232), if your "original" firmware version (the first number reported) is below 08.01.65 (e.g. 08.01.42), it will not be able to deal with the digital stream and thus will not be able to download either the guide or the latest version of the firmware. I haven't heard of anyone with an "original" version of 08.01.65 or higher, but if you're lucky enough to have one, consider yourself immune from any transition syndrome; we who have 08.01.42 as our "original" version are ok until the first time we need to do a reset - at that point it will take some black magic to get back to receiving the guide, I fear.

What would cause a random hard disk error on this unit? Had a message pop up saying I had a hard disk error and it needed to reboot to attempt to recover. It turned off and did some sort of reset while the Sony logo was on screen. Counted up to 6 and hung for a while, then the screen (tv and unit readout) went totally blank. The clock came back on the current time after a minute and I powered it up and it seems fine....didn't loose guide data or any recordings.

Could that be a fluke or are there HD issues on the horizon? The only thing "different" I was doing is that I finally got an email back from One For All about available codes for the Sony and I had programmed my remote and was trying all the remote buttons to see what worked and what didn't. The error came up during that....wasn't sure if certain button combos could trigger a disk error?

According to this source: (see the attachment to http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14280232#post14280232), if your "original" firmware version (the first number reported) is below 08.01.65 (e.g. 08.01.42), it will not be able to deal with the digital stream and thus will not be able to download either the guide or the latest version of the firmware.
I just had an interaction with a TV Guide support site that I hadn't known about until it was mentioned in the LG3410a thread, and I have cited the questions I asked and responses there. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14411079#post14411079

I'm afraid I didn't get a satisfactory answer about whether there would be a way to get a TV Guide firmware version that we could use in case we lost the 8.6.44 we all have now. But the guys there seemed to think that the DTVPal would work as a backstop, even though it is not yet apparently finding any TVGOS data that it can convert, even where CBS is broadcasting the data digitally - of course they may not yet be broadcasting the v7 and older (?) data, though they apparently INTEND to do so by February...(Maybe groups of people with Sony's could just have a DTVPal on hand to get the upgrade, so that whoever had it shipped it to the next person who lost the firmware required!)

Actually, I realize that we KNOW CBS here and elsewhere is broadcasting v8, so the DTVPal test I did with my Sony suggests it wasn't successful in converting that data...hmm - of course, as someone suggested before, the TVGOS data suitable for conversion by the DTVPal MIGHT have to be a specific set (even if it includes data for various TV Guide versions), and this might include a special v8 set, too. So if NONE of these special sets is yet available, that would explain why the DTVPal can't v8 data, as well as not see v7 data (as needed for the 3410a), and even earlier version for analog devices...

so maybe we still have to wait for additional TVGOS data sets to be broadcast digitally, specifically for use of the DTVPal or whatever...

If you run the 753159852 TVGOS test, the first screen shows you your original and current firmware versions. Mine say "08.01.42/08.06.44". The key here is that the current firmware version reportedly needs to say 08.01.65 or later in order to receive guide from CBS digital stations. Since this newer version is downloaded via the guide data itself, virtually everyone, regardless of their original version, should have 08.06.44 (this is the version that shows ads.) This would seem peachy keen were it not for the fact that sometimes the TVGOS system hangs up severely enough to require a TVGOS factory reset, which causes the firmware to revert to the original version for a day or so until it downloads the 08.06.44 version from the data stream. According to this source: (see the attachment to http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14280232#post14280232), if your "original" firmware version (the first number reported) is below 08.01.65 (e.g. 08.01.42), it will not be able to deal with the digital stream and thus will not be able to download either the guide or the latest version of the firmware. I haven't heard of anyone with an "original" version of 08.01.65 or higher, but if you're lucky enough to have one, consider yourself immune from any transition syndrome; we who have 08.01.42 as our "original" version are ok until the first time we need to do a reset - at that point it will take some black magic to get back to receiving the guide, I fear.


Read Here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13252745#post13252745

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13257901#post13257901

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13426583#post13426583

When I was doing my Digital testing my unit reverted to no download version 08.01.42/00.00.00/00.00.00 (No ads) then overnight went to a very old TVGuide version 08.01.42/08.05.40/00.00.00. The host channel was the CBS digital the whole time. I soft rebooted and verified the guide work then shut it off for an hour, then the version went to the current version again 08.01.42/08.06.44/00.00.00 (so the new version was download from CBS host and just need a soft reboot and a TVGUIDE download cycle to install would be my guess.)

I think we should not keep propagating third hand information from suppossed sony or Gemstar employees that might be of questionable intelligence in the first place. Keep in mind you are never talking to SONY engineers or TVGOS engineers only customer liaisons. Working in the industry as an engineer I can't believe the incorrect information the customer service people give out where I work. They just about say anything to get someone off the phone and never research anything and never really bother to entirely learn the product. It is easier to just make up something to get the customer to hang up.

As I said before I think the new version of TVGOS might fix the quirks I see with digital host channels. Like strange channel numbers in last clock set channels, invalid host channels displayed in diag menu. But we wont know until Gemstar makes it available over the host channels.

Would anyone find it useful if I updated my site to include a form for people to send it channel info for the stations that are sending digital guide data right now, similar to the one for the analog host channels?

Is there an easy test for this other than forcing the unit to find the host station? Is it enough to run the G* Factory test and check for valid ATSC guide packets?

Thanks,
Jeff

Would anyone find it useful if I updated my site to include a form for people to send it channel info for the stations that are sending digital guide data right now, similar to the one for the analog host channels?

Is there an easy test for this other than forcing the unit to find the host station? Is it enough to run the G* Factory test and check for valid ATSC guide packets?

Thanks,
Jeff

Just for consideration, for the list I've started (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14362176#post14362176), I've only included channels for which there was a post that indicated either 1) that the poster had successfully downloaded TVGOS data from the channel or 2) that the poster had information from the station management that the specified digital channel was broadcasting the data.

I don't consider myself expert enough to judge conclusively whether a successful G* test (at an adequate rate) is enough evidence alone to demonstrate that the channel carries TVGOS data. However, it may be, since apparently where a CBS station is found to be carrying the TVGOS data, it will have passed the test, whereas the other digital stations in the locale will not.

I have to say, given the claim that there is already 65% coverage of the country by digital TVGOS broadcasts, it may be time to judge simply on the basis of a statement by station management....just a thought...

Just for consideration, for the list I've started (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14362176#post14362176), I've only included channels for which there was a post that indicated either 1) that the poster had successfully downloaded TVGOS data from the channel or 2) that the poster had information from the station management that the specified digital channel was broadcasting the data.

I don't consider myself expert enough to judge conclusively whether a successful G* test (at an adequate rate) is enough evidence alone to demonstrate that the channel carries TVGOS data. However, it may be, since apparently where a CBS station is found to be carrying the TVGOS data, it will have passed the test, whereas the other digital stations in the locale will not.

I have to say, given the claim that there is already 65% coverage of the country by digital TVGOS broadcasts, it may be time to judge simply on the basis of a statement by station management....just a thought...

Thanks for the link. I can at least list those stations on my page. (I can link back to your post to close the loop to the original posts)...

Thanks,
Jeff

Is there an easy test for this other than forcing the unit to find the host station? Is it enough to run the G* Factory test and check for valid ATSC guide packets?To unequivocally check for TVGOS data on a digital station:

1. Tune the Sony to that digital station (e.g. 3.1 in Philly, KYW-DT).

2. Run the G* Factory Test (observe VBI count increasing).

3. Leave the Sony turned "on" and still tuned to that station overnight, doing absolutely nothing else after running the G* Factory Test (you can exit from the test if you want, but you must not change stations).

4. In the morning, page out to the 8th day (168 >) of the guide (which should be the same day as that morning, only a week later) and see if you have listings. If you DO have listings, they could have come from no place other than the digital station, because the Sony does NOT download listings from the Host Channel while it is still turned "on", only when it is... er... "off". If you DON'T have listings, then I guess the digital channel isn't sending them.

This works like a charm with KYW-DT. YMMV

To unequivocally check for TVGOS data on a digital station:

1. Tune the Sony to that digital station (e.g. 3.1 in Philly, KYW-DT).

2. Run the G* Factory Test (observe VBI count increasing).

3. Leave the Sony turned "on" and still tuned to that station overnight, doing absolutely nothing else after running the G* Factory Test (you can exit from the test if you want, but you must not change stations).

4. In the morning, page out to the 8th day (168 >) of the guide (which should be the same day as that morning, only a week later) and see if you have listings. If you DO have listings, they could have come from no place other than the digital station, because the Sony does NOT download listings from the Host Channel while it is still turned "on", only when it is... er... "off". If you DON'T have listings, then I guess the digital channel isn't sending them.

This works like a charm with KYW-DT. YMMV

So you would have to turn off the auto-off function, right?

And you are also claiming that the Sony box can download guide data while it is turned ON and tuned to the digital host channel? This is a new tidbit of information for me...

Thanks

1. Tune the Sony to that digital station (e.g. 3.1 in Philly, KYW-DT).
2. Run the G* Factory Test (observe VBI count increasing).
3. Leave the Sony turned "on" and still tuned to that station overnight, doing absolutely nothing else after running the G* Factory Test (you can exit from the test if you want, but you must not change stations).
...

Just out of curiosity - how did you know to leave the unit on after the G test to get data???? Tony

So you would have to turn off the auto-off function, right?
And you are also claiming that the Sony box can download guide data while it is turned ON and tuned to the digital host channel? This is a new tidbit of information for me...


Jeff...if you read a little earlier in the thread, you will see that I had used the "reset slicing data" service code before I did what Frank70 is describing, and I was startled by
1) the fact that that reset code ALSO reset the whole TV Guide - no listings grid, host channel cleared, ...nothing left but "There is no data for this screen", when I pushed the guide button. Then - after I left the unit off during the day - what the guide showed was that I had to choose my channel lineup (remember that?). So I picked OTA, which then gave me the normal TV Guide grid, but with 8 days of no listings, and the original channel ordering, which I then reordered.

2) Then I followed frank70's procedure as just outlined above, leaving the unit line overnight, and the next day I had 8 DAYS OF LISTINGS...so I was startled again.

Anyway, I wanted to make 2 suggestions about your description of the G* test and the "reset slicing data" code.

For the G* test, I suggest you might add that when a unit is tuned to a a DIGITAL channel that is broadcasting TVGOS, it apparently counts TVGOS packets, not vbi packets (of which there are none), and if you tune to OTHER digital channels (with no TVGOS), you will get a zero packet count.

Secondly, if my experience indicates anything, you might add a note to the "reset slicing data" description that states that this code has been found to reset the TV Guide to its initial state, requiring that the unit be left off for a period to get setup data again, so that you can reselect your channel lineup (and reorder desired channels on the TV Guide screen), after which it can be left off overnight to get the listing as usual. (Or, as I did, you can use frank70's procedure, and apparently get listing real fast...)

Thanks - Tony

I've read through most of the messages on this forum, which has been quite an education. But here's my need for help: what menu/diagnostic screen can I use to assure myself that TVGOS packets are being received? I'm asking because:

1) the ads have stopped!
2) I only get cable.
3) There is packet activity on my cable signals from CBS (KYW & WYOU), and PBS (WVIA & WITF), all analog.

I get HD signals from all the network feeds and SD signals from them too, along with all the minor network stations even though the guide can't see the QAM256 channel numbers (they are in an xxx.xxxx format). None of the cable-only signals, like USA or TNT, come through in digital, but that's not so important since now that the content starts as digital, the analog signals are much better in 480i (and I don't have a STB or CC).

To get OTA signals from the networks I would need a 200 foot tower on my roof. I doubt the owner of my house would like that and I couldn't afford it anyhow. Just getting permission to put up an FM antenna at the roof line took me a year of begging. I live in the middle of nowhere in a very small valley of NE PA.

So without buying a 'scope, how can I tell there are packets coming in to fill my up my guide periodically? Any help would be appreciated.

Uh-oh.................... WhatHappend is gonna have a fit................... He's gonna have to repeat himself again........... With all these lost posts!!! :D:D:D

Uh-oh.................... WhatHappend is gonna have a fit................... He's gonna have to repeat himself again........... With all these lost posts!!! :D:D:D

Maybe Google cached the posts.

-phil

I called the Sony Support line to get their take on the changeover and how it will affect Sony DVRs.
This gentleman (who sounded foreign) said that I would have to get a cable box. When I told him that I didn't subscribe to cable but got my feeds OTA, he said that I would have to get a converter box. When I asked what kind he said a digital/amalog box. When queried further he said that was all the information he had. Go figure. Anyone else had a similar conversation with Sony?

No, but I've had similar conversations with other tech support people who obviously didn't speak English as a first language . . .:rolleyes:

I called the Sony Support line to get their take on the changeover and how it will affect Sony DVRs.
This gentleman (who sounded foreign) said that I would have to get a cable box. When I told him that I didn't subscribe to cable but got my feeds OTA, he said that I would have to get a converter box. When I asked what kind he said a digital/amalog box. When queried further he said that was all the information he had. Go figure. Anyone else had a similar conversation with Sony?

If you call Sony's main support number you get somebody from India to field questions.
I think the only knowledgeable people at Sony may be the repair center guys at Mt. Pleasant, Pa. I don't know the numbers for them thou. But the people on this forum who sent the units there for updates said they knew what they were talking about.
I myself thought Sony needed to do something to make the transition happen. But by following the info on this forum I was able to make the transition on my own this weekend, albeit involuntarily, after the analog TVGOS in my area (Atlanta) was cut off.

Uh-oh.................... WhatHappend is gonna have a fit................... He's gonna have to repeat himself again........... With all these lost posts!!! :D:D:D
No need everyone here took notes right????:eek::eek::eek::eek:

If you call Sony's main support number you get somebody from India to field questions.
I think the only knowledgeable people at Sony may be the repair center guys at Mt. Pleasant, Pa. I don't know the numbers for them thou. But the people on this forum who sent the units there for updates said they knew what they were talking about.
I myself thought Sony needed to do something to make the transition happen. But by following the info on this forum I was able to make the transition on my own this weekend, albeit involuntarily, after the analog TVGOS in my area (Atlanta) was cut off.

If you can get escalated, the support team in California is intelligent. But I don't think anyone at SONY gives a rip about us customer's using a discontinued product because even they don't understand the digital VBI technology. When I talked to a few of them in Feb and let them know I had a digital host channel they were "That is not supposed to happen". It seems like SONY doesn't want to keep supporting this product after 2009.

Re post (having a link to the manual is nice):
Originally Posted by GodobeHD http://images.avsforum.com/avs-images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14465187#post14465187)
OK, I admit I never used search current page function in the browser. I will give your guide a try and see if brings back TVGOS.
But first thing first, how can I set the blocks in TVGOS in 4hour length before tonight's Olympic opening ceremories?You can't change the block length. You just set a manual recording from the schedule tab in the Guide display at the top.

And before you ask here is the section from the user manual for setting up a manual recording:
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/DHGHDD250-500rev2.pdf
Section: Recording Manually

anybody notice that all the posts for 9 days are missing???

anybody notice that all the posts for 9 days are missing???
Read about it here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/ (They are gone forever)...

Updated Force Digital Host procedure...

The theory of the new procedure is to fix the issue when you have done a G* test and the VBI channel in the TVGOS diags menu is an invalid number (this invalid number happens in other cases like when surfing the guide with the video window unlocked and then press exit, the viewing channel and the VBI channel can get out of sync). When the VBI search starts with an invalid number the host channel either reverts to analog or goes to a blank channel. Running the G* test first aids users like me that the VBI packets count is fine on the digital host but the counting doesn't start until the VBI test is marked failed. This, G* VBI test failure, seems to interfere with the DVR choosing that channel as the host channel.

0(a). Run G* Factory Test from your desired digital guide channel. (Press menu(btn) -> screen mode(btn) -> then the following numbers 9012. Make sure to select the G* test correctly.

0(b). Note how long VBI packet count takes to start incrementing (Takes ~10-20 seconds for me). If the VBI packets don't increment don't do the procedure (cancel by turning of DVR).

0(c). Tune to a different channel (channel up button).

1. Tune to your digital host channel, and then bring up the TV Guide listings.



2. Push the "CH" (PAGE) up button one or more times until the highlighted line is all the way up in the menu bar on "LISTINGS".

3. Push the right arrow on the menu navigation circle twice to "SETUP".

4. Push the down arrow on the menu navigation circle once to "Change System Settings".

5. Push "INFO". The white box will contain some jabber about zipcodes, etc.

6. Enter the following number: 963214785

7. The white box should now say "VBI Search Current Channel".


8. Wait the time it took in step 0(b) to acquire VBI packets and then power off the DVR.


9. Do nothing until the next morning.

10. The next morning, turn on the unit and bring up the TV Guide listings.

11. Push the "CH" (PAGE) up button one or more times until the highlighted line is all the way up in the menu bar on "LISTINGS".

12. Push the right arrow on the menu navigation circle twice to "SETUP".

13. Push the down arrow on the menu navigation circle once to "Change System Settings".

14. Enter the following number: 753159852

15. Press the right arrow on the menu navigation circle once. You should see the "Host chan" listed a little way down the list.

NON-CABLE CARD:


16. It will either be your analog host channel in the form 0:0-# (or 1:0-# for cable) in which case it didn't work; Or it will be your digital host channel in the form 0:#-# (or 1:#-#) in which case it DID (hooray) work.

CABLE CARD:
16. For cable card users, the cable digital host channel will be 0:0-(digtial host channel number). For OTA is will be 0:#-#.

Updated Force Digital Host procedure...
Note: I have had the digital cable CBS-HD as my host for 4 days now. I had only gotten the CBS-HD OTA channel to stick as the host before (2-weeks). I had used the CBS-HD cable channel for forced downloads and time setting to prove it worked, but never had it stick as the host channel until now. This might be due to the fact that all the cable Host channels have been converted to digital simulcast and with cable card installed you can not tune the analog versions of the channels. But it also might be due to the new Host setting proceedure working better then what I was trying in the past.

I have one 500 with cablecard installed and another 500 using OTA only. I used WhatHappend's newest procedure to lock in the CBS digital host on both units. And both Sonys are still reporting digital host after 2 days of guide downloads. The 500 with the CableCard is using CBS digital from cable channel 233. Please note that my PBS analog host is still available on cable unlike what WhatHappend has reported on his cable. The OTA 500 is using the CBS OTA channel 6-1.
Cable provider: Comcast
Location: Jackson MI
CBS station: WLNS 6-1 (Lansing, MI)

I'll report back after a week if the digital host is still holding...

If you call Sony's main support number you get somebody from India to field questions.
I think the only knowledgeable people at Sony may be the repair center guys at Mt. Pleasant, Pa. I don't know the numbers for them thou. But the people on this forum who sent the units there for updates said they knew what they were talking about.
I myself thought Sony needed to do something to make the transition happen. But by following the info on this forum I was able to make the transition on my own this weekend, albeit involuntarily, after the analog TVGOS in my area (Atlanta) was cut off.
GodobeHD, what version of TVGOS are you using to get information from 46.1? I've done G* tests on all three of my units and haven't received any VBI packets on 46.1.

I myself thought Sony needed to do something to make the transition happen. But by following the info on this forum I was able to make the transition on my own this weekend, albeit involuntarily, after the analog TVGOS in my area (Atlanta) was cut off.

The Atlanta analog TVGOS outage was temporary and seemed isolated to Sunday. I know I checked listings Saturday night and it was fully populated. Checked Sunday evening and had no listings at all, then this morning the current schedule was 95% filled in. That is, unless my unit swapped hosts on its own....I haven't checked that.

I don't think Atlanta is still broadcasting the TVGOS analog. Both my LG and Sony DVR's stopped updating on August 3rd so as of last night, I have no more listings. I'm not seeing any VBI packets on WGTV like I used to when I did a G* test. I was hoping to force it to digital CBS (46.1) but I'm not having any luck like GodobeHD. I don't know if I'm totally screwed since my current version of TVGOS is now 8.1.42?

I don't think Atlanta is still broadcasting the TVGOS analog. Both my LG and Sony DVR's stopped updating on August 3rd so as of last night, I have no more listings. I'm not seeing any VBI packets on WGTV like I used to when I did a G* test. I was hoping to force it to digital CBS (46.1) but I'm not having any luck like GodobeHD. I don't know if I'm totally screwed since my current version of TVGOS is now 8.1.42?
Did you try my updated procedure? Do you get VBI packet count on the G* test for CBS digital?
Your Guide version is just fine.
Worst case, after you try one more time, leave the unit on and tuned to 46.1 after the G* test (you will have to disable the auto-turnoff feature). This will download the guide with the unit "ON" (please don't ask "but I thought the unit had to be off to download the guide").

Yes, I've tried your revised process of channeling up then back to the digital host, but I get no VBI packets (0 Good, 0 Fixed, 0 Bad) regardless of what I do, even after a VBI Search Current Channel and a confirmation using 753*. The G* test worked fine three weeks ago on the local analog channel, but now no VBI packets either. One thing to note is that when I setup the TV Guide with a zip code and run the G* test, it shows "Packet Statistics for VBI: 1023-65533", but when I reset the TVGOS and don't setup a zip code it shows "Packet Statistics for VBI: 46-1" or whatever channel I'm on. But either way, if I'm not receiving packets, I assume I'll get nothing even if I leave the unit on in G* test mode? I've updated one of my HDD250's with 1.2.13 software to see if this makes a difference.

Yes, I've tried your revised process of channeling up then back to the digital host, but I get no VBI packets (0 Good, 0 Fixed, 0 Bad) regardless of what I do, even after a VBI Search Current Channel and a confirmation using 753*. The G* test worked fine three weeks ago on the local analog channel, but now no VBI packets either. One thing to note is that when I setup the TV Guide with a zip code and run the G* test, it shows "Packet Statistics for VBI: 1023-65533", but when I reset the TVGOS and don't setup a zip code it shows "Packet Statistics for VBI: 46-1" or whatever channel I'm on. But either way, if I'm not receiving packets, I assume I'll get nothing even if I leave the unit on in G* test mode? I've updated one of my HDD250's with 1.2.13 software to see if this makes a difference.
Do you wait for a few minutes at the G* test screen for packets? If you don't get packets you are not going to get any guide data and should not try to force the host to that channel.
You should post the menu/preferences/system?/Diagnositics information for that 46-1 channel. Is it ATSC, what is the SNR?

GodobeHD, are you using this same OTA 46-1 channel?

Yes, I've even waited for the G* test to dissapear which I think is about 5-10 minutes. The digital strength is shown as 94% for 46.1 so I assume that's not the problem. I'm about 30 miles northeast of downtown Atlanta. A week ago downtown was hit with bad storms and lightning, not sure if that has anything to do with the TVGOS issue...

And SNR is 31.08 and 46.1 is ATSC.

Look at these 5 links, but no telling how long they'll last:

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Sony+DHG-HDD250%2F500%3A+Official+Thread+-+Page+406%22&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fp%3D14422432&w=%22sony+dhg+hdd250+500+official+thread+page+406%22&d=CjDx1hg5RPF7&icp=1&.intl=us

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Sony+DHG-HDD250%2F500%3A+Official+Thread+-+Page+407%22&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fp%3D14434116&w=%22sony+dhg+hdd250+500+official+thread+page+407%22&d=K2y7YBg5RPvn&icp=1&.intl=us

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Sony+DHG-HDD250%2F500%3A+Official+Thread+-+Page+408%22&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fp%3D14443101&w=%22sony+dhg+hdd250+500+official+thread+page+408%22&d=JwynXRg5RP9y&icp=1&.intl=us

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Sony+DHG-HDD250%2F500%3A+Official+Thread+-+Page+409%22&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fp%3D14455838&w=%22sony+dhg+hdd250+500+official+thread+page+409%22&d=Z72CMRg5RQlZ&icp=1&.intl=us

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Sony+DHG-HDD250%2F500%3A+Official+Thread+-+Page+410%22&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fgoto%3Dnewpost%26t%3D537711&w=%22sony+dhg+hdd250+500+official+thread+page+410%22&d=c-4NSxg5RRps&icp=1&.intl=us

Clearly, some posts may be missing between pages, as a function of when they were cached. And if you get a "we're sorry" from yahoo, just try again.

Yes, I've even waited for the G* test to dissapear which I think is about 5-10 minutes. The digital strength is shown as 94% for 46.1 so I assume that's not the problem. I'm about 30 miles northeast of downtown Atlanta. A week ago downtown was hit with bad storms and lightning, not sure if that has anything to do with the TVGOS issue...

And SNR is 31.08 and 46.1 is ATSC.

That all looks good. Looking at the FAQ site Atlanta CBS is not listed at a CBS O&O station. http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html

We will have to wait for GodobeHD to respond what channel he is using (I assume he is in your area?). Maybe GodobeHD has cable and gets multiple CBS channels.

Anyways, what kind of channel number is 46.1 for a main network station. Usually they use the same channel number (for the friendly number) the main analog station used. And because the main (CBS,ABC,NBC) network have been around for so long that means a channel number in the VHF band <14.

Look at these 5 links, but no telling how long they'll last:

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Sony+DHG-HDD250%2F500%3A+Official+Thread+-+Page+406%22&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fp%3D14422432&w=%22sony+dhg+hdd250+500+official+thread+page+406%22&d=CjDx1hg5RPF7&icp=1&.intl=us

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Sony+DHG-HDD250%2F500%3A+Official+Thread+-+Page+407%22&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fp%3D14434116&w=%22sony+dhg+hdd250+500+official+thread+page+407%22&d=K2y7YBg5RPvn&icp=1&.intl=us

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Sony+DHG-HDD250%2F500%3A+Official+Thread+-+Page+408%22&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fp%3D14443101&w=%22sony+dhg+hdd250+500+official+thread+page+408%22&d=JwynXRg5RP9y&icp=1&.intl=us

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Sony+DHG-HDD250%2F500%3A+Official+Thread+-+Page+409%22&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fp%3D14455838&w=%22sony+dhg+hdd250+500+official+thread+page+409%22&d=Z72CMRg5RQlZ&icp=1&.intl=us

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22Sony+DHG-HDD250%2F500%3A+Official+Thread+-+Page+410%22&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php%3Fgoto%3Dnewpost%26t%3D537711&w=%22sony+dhg+hdd250+500+official+thread+page+410%22&d=c-4NSxg5RRps&icp=1&.intl=us

Clearly, some posts may be missing between pages, as a function of when they were cached. And if you get a "we're sorry" from yahoo, just try again.I believe you can get it from Google, too.

That all looks good. Looking at the FAQ site Atlanta CBS is not listed at a CBS O&O station. http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html

We will have to wait for GodobeHD to respond what channel he is using (I assume he is in your area?). Maybe GodobeHD has cable and gets multiple CBS channels.

Anyways, what kind of channel number is 46.1 for a main network station. Usually they use the same channel number (for the friendly number) the main analog station used. And because the main (CBS,ABC,NBC) network have been around for so long that means a channel number in the VHF band <14.
I was using 46.1 as the VBI channel, but now I have lost all the guide. I have to go back and go thru the process again, hopefullly the following day the guide would be filled. CBS is OTA 46.1 in Atlanta. I got the info here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12559867#post12559867).

Thank you Whathappened for all the info. The procedure worked great! I did
not leave my units off overnight though, only for about a half hour. When I came back, I had the new hosts.

fox

Anyways, what kind of channel number is 46.1 for a main network station. Usually they use the same channel number (for the friendly number) the main analog station used. And because the main (CBS,ABC,NBC) network have been around for so long that means a channel number in the VHF band <14.

Several years ago, a few of the Atlanta area networks swapped dial locations. CBS (now 46) used to be 5, FOX (now 5) was 36 I believe and 46 was a local network. Not sure why the swap since I didn't care at the time, but CBS being 46 in Atlanta is a result of that.

I don't know what's going on with the listings. I meant to check my machines yesterday, but I worked until 10pm, so I didn't get a chance to look when I got home, but after a total blank listing grid on Sunday, most of the listings were filled back in on Monday morning. There were a few holes on the current screen yesterday morning, but it was 95% filled.

I am trying to contact quote 'Mikey', who sent me a message regarding losing guide data in the Mystic/Stonington, Connecticut area. I apologize for losing your contact info, and I'd appreciate it if you'd get in touch with me. The Gemstar people want to talk to anyone in the area who has lost this data and asked me to forward the message to you. I have the necessary information for you for that contact.

Thanks.

JLOB

Is there any way to delete unused channels from the TVGOS lists?

Is there any way to delete unused channels from the TVGOS lists?

In the Guide at the top bar.

Settings. Change Channel Display.

Highlight channel. Hit Menu.

Select your choice to turn off channel.

Is anyone experiencing their cable company stripping out the VBI data?

Although OTA CBS digital from NYC is showing packets, the same feed from Cablevision is not.

I have been thinking about setting up an open source (read "free") forum hosted on my webserver to see if we can't get a more organized version of the FAQ. (I would still keep the original one, but the forums could be a better, topic-based approach). This thread is becoming a bit frustrating to follow along with, since everything is bunched together. It also puts the power in the hands of the users (rather than me) to be able to create new threads.

Just a thought. Please reply in this thread if you think this is worth pursuing (actually reply with both positive and negative opinions).

Thanks,
Jeff

Spiff. definitely worth adding to your webserver. With Feb2009 quickly approaching, we'll need to stick together, swap stories, and collectively persuade Sony & TVGOS to update their firmware so our HD DVR's don't become boat anchors. Thanks.

-Chris

I was using 46.1 as the VBI channel, but now I have lost all the guide. I have to go back and go thru the process again, hopefullly the following day the guide would be filled. CBS is OTA 46.1 in Atlanta. I got the info here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12559867#post12559867).

Then it sounds like you and metalav8b (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=7995034) lost the Gemstar feed on the CBS channel. Are you getting VBI packet count in G* Test? Maybe that Thunderstorm metalav8b (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=7995034) mentioned caused some damage at the CBS station.

I have been thinking about setting up an open source (read "free") forum hosted on my webserver to see if we can't get a more organized version of the FAQ. (I would still keep the original one, but the forums could be a better, topic-based approach). This thread is becoming a bit frustrating to follow along with, since everything is bunched together. It also puts the power in the hands of the users (rather than me) to be able to create new threads.

Just a thought. Please reply in this thread if you think this is worth pursuing (actually reply with both positive and negative opinions).

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,

Excellent suggestion. While our AVS Thread is a good resource, it's gotten too long and too diffuse. Thanks for offering to undertake a daunting task.

Dan

Jeff, that would be great.

I ran tsreader lite on my CBS affiliate, both OTA & QAM. Neither showed TVG1/TVG2 streams, so is it correct to assume running the G* tests is a waste of time now?

Jeff, that would be great.

I ran tsreader lite on my CBS affiliate, both OTA & QAM. Neither showed TVG1/TVG2 streams, so is it correct to assume running the G* tests is a waste of time now?

Do you mean a waste of time for you (the whole 5min of time it would take to run it)? Or do you mean a waste of time for anyone to detect a digital host channel?

If the later, then you are wrong. There is no case of a working digital host that doesn't have a incrementing packet count on the VBI test. So it is a method to try first (not a guarantee of a successful host channel). In the USA, I would think Gemstar would be the only digital VBI information at the present time, so it should be a real good indicator of host channel potential.

I wouldn't consider this thread a total waste of time. Thanks to WhatHappend and frank70's combined updated procedure I was finally able to get my CBS digital channel, via cable card no less, to stick as the host channel. Granted, its only been a day so far, but prior to this update I never got it to work properly. So for this I am grateful to this thread, and What and frank of course. Oh, and of course spiff's site. If I had to go to spiff's site to get these updates, so be it. I just hope that the desired reduction of chatter a new forum might resolve won't also reduce the dissemination of information the likes of whathappend, frank70, and others have provided.

Before I get yelled at please hear me out. I've done TONS of research on this Sony DHG-HDDxxx box and I'm actually really interested in buying one. I've gone so far as to even calling Sony themselves to discuss their product. All I'm looking for is some positive reinforcement here, please.

I'm really concerned about the TVGOS feature that appears to be an analog signal broad casted through PBS. Everything that I have read states that come February 17, 2009 the TVGOS as it stands will no longer function. The guy from Sony support all but clarified this but he mentioned come this February I could possibly use a D-A converter in order to get the TVGOS to still work. I don't believe a word this guy had to say, because that sounds ridiculous. It seemed like every time I asked him a question he had to take 20 seconds to find the answer in some 10,000 page book. Without the TVGOS functioning I have heard very bad things about this box, to the point where the equipment becomes useless as a DVR.

Can anyone ACTUALLY clarify this and persuade me to not buy this Sony equipment. I've read that LG made a similar type box, which I'm wary of those for this and many other practical reasons, and EchoStar has something coming out as well. Is there anything besides those and TiVo that I could use as an HD DVR for OTA and have it still work this February?

Thanks,
Tim

OK, I take back what I said in my previous post. Looks like the trolls are out. :rolleyes:

Last night I decided to try getting the digital download from CBS-HD with Comcast Moto cablecard on my 500.

The G* test fails the VBI test, but VBI packets do download. So I tuned to CBS-HD on channel 189, started the G* test, and left the unit on all night (auto-off disabled).

This morning I had day 8 filled in. So the digital guide transmission in Chicago appears to be online, with Comcast passing it through unharmed.

I will not try to force the digital host channel to stick, since the guide has been working flawlessly with analog for a long time. But this is good news.

Before I get yelled at please hear me out. I've done TONS of research on this Sony DHG-HDDxxx box and I'm actually really interested in buying one. Is there anything besides those and TiVo that I could use as an HD DVR for OTA and have it still work this February?

Thanks,
Tim

Tons of research??. How about reading a few posts right before this one about the digital feed success people are having. jeez.

Do you mean a waste of time for you (the whole 5min of time it would take to run it)? Or do you mean a waste of time for anyone to detect a digital host channel?


I meant for me. It's actually easier for me to run tsreader, and if that shows no TVG1, I know my station hasn't installed the equipment yet. My question really was does the tsreader approach actually tell me that?

I meant for me. It's actually easier for me to run tsreader, and if that shows no TVG1, I know my station hasn't installed the equipment yet. My question really was does the tsreader approach actually tell me that?

Yes, TSReader will show you whether or not TVGOS data is being transmitted. See this output from WCBS-DT in New York.

http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/ny-nyc/9610-0_0.htm

Search the page for TVG1 and you'll see it.

I've sent you a PM.

- Trip

Yes, TSReader will show you whether or not TVGOS data is being transmitted. See this output from WCBS-DT in New York.

http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/ny-nyc/9610-0_0.htm

Search the page for TVG1 and you'll see it.

I've sent you a PM.

- Trip

I don't think those TVG1 and 2 streams are the VBI TVGOS data our Sony's are using. Those are carried as different PID in the ATSC transport. My cable company is not passing any PSIP information and only the MPEG2 Stream in the QAM signal (no friendly channel number, call letters, show title or descriptions).

Here is the patent I believe Gemstar is using to send the data over MPEG2 as video data http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2007/0022461.html . This would be included in the MPEG PID that all ATSC channel have and tsreader won't detect the video data's presences.

So grittree, get off your lazy aXX and do a test that takes 5min (I am not kidding about the 5min). Or please go away and troll some where else. You are wasting a lot more then 5 min from everyone that reads your posts and responses (including this one). Are you scared of pressing menu, screen mode, 9, 0, 1,2 (arrow down a few time) and select a few times? Not very hard.....

I don't know if those PIDs are actual data, or if they're just an ID that can show TVGOS is being transmitted as VBI. If you look at the corresponding PIDs in the bandwidth section of the output, you find that almost no bandwidth is being used by them, which makes me wonder if they're just to identify that the video stream contains the TVGOS data.

I can tell you that many CBS stations have that TVG1/TVG2 in it, and many others do not. I've been told that the Portland CBS station (KOIN) which I was following because people were complaining about lack of TVGOS there for quite some time, added those two PIDs when the TVGOS data started.

- Trip

(Reconstruction my lost post)

My Sony 500 has been locked on 13-1 (1:13-1) for more than a week and is getting the guide just fine. (Confirmed by checking the 7-5-3... menu on day eight)

My Sony 250 has reverted to analog 13 twice even though analog 13 has been deleted from my channel setup and my +/- list. For the life of me, I cannot find a difference in the firmware or software versions. Maybe I need to talk nice to it.

So, I am reassured that February 2009 will not be the end of our Sony HD PVRs. I've had a lot of gadgets in my life and these PVRs are far-and-away the most used and appreciated.

(Reconstruction my lost post)
My Sony 500 has been locked on 13-1 (1:13-1) for more than a week and is getting the guide just fine. (Confirmed by checking the 7-5-3... menu on day eight)...

hmm...hadn't noticed your previous post. Baltimore 13.1 makes 13 in the list of digital TVGOS broadcasters (that I know of) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14362176#post14362176).
...hope that's not unlucky! Tony

WhatHappened's proceedure worked for me. Did it yesterday, today host id is 0:4-1 (CBS in MSP) and guide for next Wed (day 8) is fully populated. Thanks.

I'd tried VBI Search several times previously without success. I don't know if it is just making sure you wait on turning the unit off after selecting VBI Search for at least as long as it took for the G* Test to start counting VBI packets, or, if changing the channel up and back between doing the G* Test and the VBI Search is the key, but, this proceedure worked.

Edit: Host ID has remained 0:4-1 (CBS digital) for 5 days now - looks like this is going to stick. Feb '09 should be no sweat.

Updated Force Digital Host procedure...


I think it would be appropriate to add this procedure to the FAQ. It seems to be 100% effective at setting the digital host channel when the user's CBS digital channel is transmitting TVGOS data.

Not a lot of data points yet, but I am impressed with what I see. I had tried the "VBI search" quite a bit in the past and it didn't do what I expected more often then not.

It might ALSO be useful to include frank70's simpler overnight test to simply determine whether the CBS digital station is broadcasting the TVGOS data, which was, if I remember what I did:

-turn OFF the auto-turnoff feature so the Sony can remain on overnight;
-tune to the CBS digital station;
-perform the G* test, finding vbi packets at the minimum rate of 1 or 2 per second;
-leave the unit AS IT IS overnight.

If the next day you have day 8 data, it came from the CBS digital station.

For MANY of us, we only want to know definitely whether the CBS station is broadcasting TVGOS AND our unit is able to receive it...we aren't concerned if CBS becomes the host channel, unless the analog broadcast is no longer working....

WhatHappened's proceedure worked for me.

The procedure worked fine for me as well to set Boston's WBZ-DT via Comcast as my host channel. The problem I have had with my HDD250 is that it is very sluggish to all commands when it has the digital host or whenever I previously performed the G* test on the digital channel. Has anyone else experienced something similar?
When I revert to the analog host from the local PBS station, WGBH, my 250 performs as expected.

The procedure worked fine for me as well to set Boston's WBZ-DT via Comcast as my host channel. The problem I have had with my HDD250 is that it is very sluggish to all commands when it has the digital host or whenever I previously performed the G* test on the digital channel. Has anyone else experienced something similar?
When I revert to the analog host from the local PBS station, WGBH, my 250 performs as expected.

When you do the G* test the SONY is in a download mode. If there is valid TVGOS packets on the current channel, it has to parse them. Yes this slows the DVR down. Just power off/on after you have done a G* Test and the speed should be fine again.

The digital host doesn't slow my box down. But it probally depends if the digtial host channel has the same version of TVGOS as the analog channel you were previously using.

There is a well known issue that corrupt TVGOS listing info will slow the box to a crawl and even cause the box to reboot. A procedure is in the FAQ to resolve the issue (but is a lot of work and should be reserved if the symptoms are really bad). But when you switch host channels just give the box 8 days to clean out all old listings before you deside how it will preform in the future.

my HDD250 is very sluggish to all commands when it has the digital host

Mine seems to respond the same since the switch to digital host as before with analog host (it has just been two days though so other than checking to see the 8th day is populated, I haven't been using the new TVGOS data much yet). Maybe as WhatHappened suggests, your TVGOS data is corrupted.

Mine seems to respond the same since the switch to digital host as before with analog host (it has just been two days though so other than checking to see the 8th day is populated, I haven't been using the new TVGOS data much yet). Maybe as WhatHappened suggests, your TVGOS data is corrupted.Wally1912, try a reboot (warm or cold.) When the unit is "on", the "Host channel" is not used for anything.

OK - I have gotten the forum up and running, and I will now be maintaining this forum instead of the FAQ page (unless I hear a mass revolt from you guys).

Here is a link:

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php

You need to register to post, but guests may browse all sections of the forum.

I have moved most of the most useful info from the original FAQ page, and I added more info to the "The DTV Transition and TVGOS". If there is anything else that I missed, let me know and I will add it (or you can add it yourselves - that is what makes a forum interactive). Just be nice out there!

Let me know what you think, and I welcome any constructive criticism/suggestions. Please post them in the "Suggestions" section.

OK - I have gotten the forum up and running, and I will now be maintaining this forum instead of the FAQ page (unless I hear a mass revolt from you guys).

Here is a link:

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php

You need to register to post, but guests may browse all sections of the forum.

I have moved most of the most useful info from the original FAQ page, and I added more info to the "The DTV Transition and TVGOS". If there is anything else that I missed, let me know and I will add it (or you can add it yourselves - that is what makes a forum interactive). Just be nice out there!

Let me know what you think, and I welcome any constructive criticism/suggestions. Please post them in the "Suggestions" section.

Nice - Thanks. You might want to get this link posted in message #1 of this thread along with the general link to spiffspace.com and/or put a link to the forums on the spiffspace.com home page.

OK - I have gotten the forum up and running, and I will now be maintaining this forum instead of the FAQ page (unless I hear a mass revolt from you guys).

Here is a link:

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php

You need to register to post, but guests may browse all sections of the forum.

I have moved most of the most useful info from the original FAQ page, and I added more info to the "The DTV Transition and TVGOS". If there is anything else that I missed, let me know and I will add it (or you can add it yourselves - that is what makes a forum interactive). Just be nice out there!

Let me know what you think, and I welcome any constructive criticism/suggestions. Please post them in the "Suggestions" section.
Is there something wrong with your link? I have tried for two days to register and login. I finally registered and received an email that showed my user name and password. Now the link hardly ever loads (It times out) when I do get a chance to login I receive a message that my password is wrong. I then reset my password and the link times out after I reset my password. All other normal URL's work just fine on my system so I know it is not my computer. It appears to be a server problem possibly on your end.

Is there something wrong with your link? I have tried for two days to register and login. I finally registered and received an email that showed my user name and password. Now the link hardly ever loads (It times out) when I do get a chance to login I receive a message that my password is wrong. I then reset my password and the link times out after I reset my password. All other normal URL's work just fine on my system so I know it is not my computer. It appears to be a server problem possibly on your end.

Joe,

I just successfully brought up and logged in to the new forum. If there was a server problem it appears to have been fixed.

Is there something wrong with your link? I have tried for two days to register and login. I finally registered and received an email that showed my user name and password. Now the link hardly ever loads (It times out) when I do get a chance to login I receive a message that my password is wrong. I then reset my password and the link times out after I reset my password. All other normal URL's work just fine on my system so I know it is not my computer. It appears to be a server problem possibly on your end.

Works for me.

OK, I take back what I said in my previous post. Looks like the trolls are out. :rolleyes:

You are very rude to call troll on someone over his legitimate questions and owe that person an apology. Not all of us have time to pour over page after page trying to find a clue in this forum. I actually have a 250 and wonder if it will be of use after next February. As it stands now, it won't work off of cable to gather TV Guide info, so I have to hook it up to rabbit ears to get it to work.

You are very rude to call troll on someone over his legitimate questions and owe that person an apology. Not all of us have time to pour over page after page trying to find a clue in this forum. I actually have a 250 and wonder if it will be of use after next February. As it stands now, it won't work off of cable to gather TV Guide info, so I have to hook it up to rabbit ears to get it to work.

Am I? From that persons, first post ever, they stated they had done TONS of research. Yet they asked basic questions which had been answered in the last day or two on this thread. They then want someone on this thread to convince them not to buy this box. All this at a time when the usefulness of the thread was being questioned. And since said poster has not posted prior to or since, I'll reserve my apology until I have more evidence I was wrong.

Are you saying your Sony does not gather TV Guide info off of cable? Or are you stating in general these boxes don't? I've been getting guide data over cable for close to 2 years now. And have recently begun getting guide data off the digital CBS channel, transmitted through my cable provider and using a cable card, thanks to all those that forged through this and disseminated the information necessary to do this. So frankly I'm convinced I'll be receiving data past the analog shutoff, because I'm not using the analogs now.

But if it'll make you feel better...... For me to buy one of these today, the price would have to be very very low. They are only single tuner, they are out of production so you'd be buying used with no warranty, new brands of DVR "should" be coming out eventually(see recent E* news releases), and you can now get the HD-TIVO with a lifetime guide option.

My Sony 500 has been locked on 13-1 (1:13-1) for more than a week and is getting the guide just fine . . .
My Sony 250 has reverted to analog 13 twice even though analog 13 has been deleted from my channel setup and my +/- list. For the life of me, I cannot find a difference in the firmware or software versions..


My 250 is now getting guide data from 13-1, as well.

This may be absolutely useless, coincidental info:The only difference I could find between my two machines was the AUTO OFF time. The reluctant HDD250 was set to 1 a.m. The HDD500 to 3:15 a.m. After setting the HDD250 to 3:15 a.m., the switch to 13-1 stuck.

Aha! Just noticed this in Spiff72's forum. My 'method' accidentally accomplished this unnoticed step --
(Thanks to "frank70" and "avnstf" in the AVSForum for this info)

-turn OFF the Auto-Off feature (MENU - Preferences - System Menu - AutoOff) so the DVR can remain on overnight

Am I? From that persons, first post ever, they stated they had done TONS of research. Yet they asked basic questions which had been answered in the last day or two on this thread. They then want someone on this thread to convince them not to buy this box. All this at a time when the usefulness of the thread was being questioned. And since said poster has not posted prior to or since, I'll reserve my apology until I have more evidence I was wrong.

Are you saying your Sony does not gather TV Guide info off of cable? Or are you stating in general these boxes don't? I've been getting guide data over cable for close to 2 years now. And have recently begun getting guide data off the digital CBS channel, transmitted through my cable provider and using a cable card, thanks to all those that forged through this and disseminated the information necessary to do this. So frankly I'm convinced I'll be receiving data past the analog shutoff, because I'm not using the analogs now.

But if it'll make you feel better...... For me to buy one of these today, the price would have to be very very low. They are only single tuner, they are out of production so you'd be buying used with no warranty, new brands of DVR "should" be coming out eventually(see recent E* news releases), and you can now get the HD-TIVO with a lifetime guide option.

I have to side with jrn23 on this one, but the word "troll" might have been a little bit harsh. :rolleyes: Perhaps "noob" might have been more appropriate. :D

The timing of the question was pretty bad, considering the question about guide availability after "DTV Day" had been answered several times in the last couple of days of posts.

:DI have to side with jrn23 on this one, but the word "troll" might have been a little bit harsh. :rolleyes: Perhaps "noob" might have been more appropriate. :D

The timing of the question was pretty bad, considering the question about guide availability after "DTV Day" had been answered several times in the last couple of days of posts.

This thread is getting pretty long, and, (even though we think people should at least scan a number of pages and try searching before asking questions) can be kind of intimidating. Is there a way we could answer the question unambigously up front so they quit asking? Would "noobs" at least read the first message in the thread? If so, a big bold SONY DHG-HDD250/500 Is DTV Day Proof - supports digital TVGOS with a hyperlink on how to set it to digital downloads would help. Even better would be if there were a way to make such a message perpetually the last in the thread (inserting any new messages would occur before this "footer" message). Just a thought.

:D

This thread is getting pretty long, and, (even though we think people should at least scan a number of pages and try searching before asking questions) can be kind of intimidating. Is there a way we could answer the question unambigously up front so they quit asking? Would "noobs" at least read the first message in the thread? If so, a big bold SONY DHG-HDD250/500 Is DTV Day Proof - supports digital TVGOS with a hyperlink on how to set it to digital downloads would help. Even better would be if there were a way to make such a message perpetually the last in the thread (inserting any new messages would occur before this "footer" message). Just a thought.

I have more control over my forum - not the AVS forum, since the first post in this thread isn't mine to edit...

I can put a sticky topic about this on my forum.

I need to go back though, and confirm that even the oldest firmware version of the Sony DVR (1.2.05) works. I think WhatHappnd has this firmware version.

I have more control over my forum - not the AVS forum, since the first post in this thread isn't mine to edit...

I can put a sticky topic about this on my forum.

I need to go back though, and confirm that even the oldest firmware version of the Sony DVR (1.2.05) works. I think WhatHappnd has this firmware version.

That's good. I've sent a message to markrubin asking that he also add it to the first message of this thread. We'll see what happens.

I need to go back though, and confirm that even the oldest firmware version of the Sony DVR (1.2.05) works. I think WhatHappnd has this firmware version.

I thought WhatHappend was at 1.2.05 as well. My concern with this box past analog shutoff is that I seem to recall reading that the TVGOS firmware version needed to be at a certain base level for digital TVGOS to be supported. Our units, or mine anyway, base firmware is below the level to support digital TVGOS but gets updated to a supported version at the first TVGOS (analog) download. It is that later version that is running when I forced my host to the cables digital CBS channel. I may have misunderstood this but the big unknown to me is, after analog shutoff, what will happen if I have to reset my box to factory settings and the older default TVGOS. Sorry, can't remember the versions off hand.

And OK troll may have been a bit too harsh. It was just the timing of the post following a post I had just made WRT the usefulness of this thread.

That's good. I've sent a message to markrubin asking that he also add it to the first message of this thread. We'll see what happens.

I sent him a note too, but haven't heard back yet.

I thought WhatHappend was at 1.2.05 as well. My concern with this box past analog shutoff is that I seem to recall reading that the TVGOS firmware version needed to be at a certain base level for digital TVGOS to be supported. Our units, or mine anyway, base firmware is below the level to support digital TVGOS but gets updated to a supported version at the first TVGOS (analog) download. It is that later version that is running when I forced my host to the cables digital CBS channel. I may have misunderstood this but the big unknown to me is, after analog shutoff, what will happen if I have to reset my box to factory settings and the older default TVGOS. Sorry, can't remember the versions off hand.

And OK troll may have been a bit too harsh. It was just the timing of the post following a post I had just made WRT the usefulness of this thread.

I thought WhatHappend made a post about your concern as well, and noted that the dowloadable firmware update worked via digital too. Again - I need to go back and look.

I thought WhatHappend made a post about your concern as well, and noted that the dowloadable firmware update worked via digital too. Again - I need to go back and look.

You are correct, post #12168.

Hello every one. My girlfriend in north Cobb (30189) just had Comcast come out and install cable cards in both the 250 and 500. Then left as they were downloading the channels, Said it would take 40 minutes. Been several hours and nothing. Can not access any channels.
When he got the first card in ( had trouble trying to get it in) it started receiving the guide from the Vinnings headend, but after doing the second dvr, he said oh, I need to set these for the Stone Mountian headend. Then he reset both and left. Of course nothing is working in that none ot the channels are coming up. Can not tune in any of the channels manually and the guide will not be ready for 24 hrs. He did not leave any channel list and when asked what needed to be done, his reply was that it ( the dvr) would tell her once the download was complete.
So does anyone know how to find out what the proper headend is for N. Cobb? She called Comcast and could not get a definitive answer.
Any other suggestions for me to pass along to her?
Thanks, Michael
Found out from my grilfriend that it is northeast Cobb. She found it on the work order, idot tech said it was Stone Mountian. Never bothered to read his own work order.

Hello every one. My girlfriend in north Cobb (30189) just had Comcast come out and install cable cards in both the 250 and 500. Then left as they were downloading the channels, Said it would take 40 minutes. Been several hours and nothing. Can not access any channels.
When he got the first card in ( had trouble trying to get it in) it started receiving the guide from the Vinnings headend, but after doing the second dvr, he said oh, I need to set these for the Stone Mountian headend. Then he reset both and left. Of course nothing is working in that none ot the channels are coming up. Can not tune in any of the channels manually and the guide will not be ready for 24 hrs. He did not leave any channel list and when asked what needed to be done, his reply was that it ( the dvr) would tell her once the download was complete.
So does anyone know how to find out what the proper headend is for N. Cobb? She called Comcast and could not get a definitive answer.
Any other suggestions for me to pass along to her?
Thanks, Michael

Michael,

It sounds like the cards have not been "authorized" at the headend. Until that happens you won't get anything. You can check this on both DVRs in the Menu -> Preferences -> System screen for Cable Cards. If one of the diagnostic subscreens says something like "waiting for authorization", then that's likely the problem. To authorize the cards, the headend will need the Card ID and Host ID for each unique card/machine combination. You can find these on one of the Card diagnostic screens, too.

It sounds like the installer may have called the Vinnings headend to authorize the card(s), but then did not call Stone Mountain to make the switch before he left. The typical Comcast CSR can't do this for you over the phone; it has to be done by a tech at the headend.

Once each card is authorized, the scan for available digital channels shouldn't take long.

Re: New info: Stone Mountain vs. northeast Cobb - same suggestion.

I thought WhatHappend was at 1.2.05 as well. My concern with this box past analog shutoff is that I seem to recall reading that the TVGOS firmware version needed to be at a certain base level for digital TVGOS to be supported. Our units, or mine anyway, base firmware is below the level to support digital TVGOS but gets updated to a supported version at the first TVGOS (analog) download. It is that later version that is running when I forced my host to the cables digital CBS channel. I may have misunderstood this but the big unknown to me is, after analog shutoff, what will happen if I have to reset my box to factory settings and the older default TVGOS. Sorry, can't remember the versions off hand.


I thought WhatHappend made a post about your concern as well, and noted that the dowloadable firmware update worked via digital too. Again - I need to go back and look.

jrn23,

You are correct. The default TVGOS version that is burned into the FLASH on the DHG unit does not support digital guide download (according to a FAQ posted on the TVGOS website). In order to support ATSC download of TVGOS, the DHG has to update it's firmware over the air via one of the nightly TVGOS transmissions - via analog NTSC. After that firmware update has succeeded the DHG then can update TVGOS schedules via digital ATSC. As spiff72 alluded to, the TVGOS firmware can also update via digital at this point.

Where you will have a problem is when you have to do a factory reset after February 17, 2009. In this case the DHG will lose any downloaded firmware and default to the FLASH version. When the unit comes back up there will no longer be an NTSC broadcast to update the firmware from and you DHG is most likely a brick at that point as far as TVGOS goes. The tuner should still work to pause live TV.

One possible solution would be to record your local NTSC TVGOS host onto a VHS or DVD for 24 hours and then play back the recorded stream to your DHG to update the TVGOS firmware. Of course 24 hour VHS tapes are hard to find. If you can get a better idea of when the TVGOS stream is broadcast then that should help reduce how much time you need to record.

Another possibility that I've been sitting on (although I seem to recall someone else mentioning a few months ago) is that Sony will provide a firmware update that we can apply to bring the DHG units up to a more recent TVGOS version. I was told that this would happen a month ago by a Sony CSR. Given that this was first line CSR I'm not holding my breath that it will happen but who knows, we might get lucky.

I suppose there's also the possibility that the DTVPal will live up to the hype and pass the TVGOS signal. You could then use that (in theory) to update the TVGOS firmware. Not holding my breath for this, either.

-phil

jrn23,

Another possibility that I've been sitting on (although I seem to recall someone else mentioning a few months ago) is that Sony will provide a firmware update that we can apply to bring the DHG units up to a more recent TVGOS version. I was told that this would happen a month ago by a Sony CSR. Given that this was first line CSR I'm not holding my breath that it will happen but who knows, we might get lucky.

-phil

I had someone recently email me and mention this firmware update too. They spoke with someone at Sony on 8/13, and they were told that once available, it would show up at the following link:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-swu.pl?mdl=DHGHDD500&LOC=3

EDIT: This might be moot, since the post mentioned by WhatHappend earlier leads us to believe that the TVGOS software download CAN be done over a digital host channel, even with the reverted FLASH version of the TVGOS software/firmware.

I will try to get this additional info into my forum in the next day or two.

Thanks

EDIT: This might be moot, since the post mentioned by WhatHappend earlier leads us to believe that the TVGOS software download CAN be done over a digital host channel, even with the reverted FLASH version of the TVGOS software/firmware.


I must have missed that post by WH. Since I have two DHGs, and they're not being heavily used until the new TV season begins, I may do a factory reset to one and test this out. I had originally planned on testing out a DTVPal in this manner but I haven't been able to find one locally and my coupons expire at the end of this month so that may not happen.

-phil

I must have missed that post by WH. Since I have two DHGs, and they're not being heavily used until the new TV season begins, I may do a factory reset to one and test this out. I had originally planned on testing out a DTVPal in this manner but I haven't been able to find one locally and my coupons expire at the end of this month so that may not happen.

-phil

If you do this test make sure you let us know. I would like to see a few more data points out there!

I have an email into the engineer at our local HD station - he says that they have the equipment in place, but he isn't sure whether they are sending data yet. I was going to wait until he gets back to me, but i might just try the test one of these days to check myself.

access this link below:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-faq.pl?mdl=DHGHDD500

Type in "DTV Transition" and select/search for the answer - read the answer!

That answer comes up simply because the unit has a digital tuner. I would think anyway. Sony's stance on the issue of digital TVGOS has been that the unit will not receive it, though we know that isn't the case.

Judging from their online info and the answers people have received from CSR's and even engineers from Sony, I wouldn't trust what they say at all regarding this unit.

I have more control over my forum - not the AVS forum, since the first post in this thread isn't mine to edit...

I can put a sticky topic about this on my forum.

I need to go back though, and confirm that even the oldest firmware version of the Sony DVR (1.2.05) works. I think WhatHappnd has this firmware version.

I used to have 1.2.05 and then I upgraded to get rid of the HDMI video reverting to auto-HDMI mode all the time. I did all the initial testing of Digital guide downloads using 1.2.05 and it worked fine. When the CBS digtial station first started broadcasting they must have had a really old TVGOS version because my unit reverted to a Guide version I have never seen anyone post before (it was older version). The unit was able to update its self to the current version via the Digital channel (unit left on CBS digital).

I don't see the need to test with 1.2.05 any longer, since the 1.2.13 FW update works well.

That answer comes up simply because the unit has a digital tuner. .....


I know, and that is the funny part; Sony says there is "no digital tuner in it!" They made the product, and know nothing about it. No wonder CC, BB, and Fry's could not sell these things.

Only sliced bread is better...........Duh, no I take that back the Sony Box is Better.

I turned off the Auto-Off feature, and left my unit on tuned to 10.1 (KOLN in Lincoln, NE), which I had previously done the G* test on (VBI did increment). The following morning, day 8 of the program guide was filled in. SO...I guess you can indicate that this digital channel is correctly broadcasting TVGOS.

My TVGOS firmware is 8.01.42/8.06.44, however, when I do the G* test(on channel 10.1), the screen that shows successful downloading of VBI packets shows the TVGOS version as 8.01.42 in the upper lefthand side.. I received ALL 8 days of guide data on cable (QAM) channel 10.1, the local(Tampa) CBS HD channel, within a few hours.

The ONLY thing I did to update the guide was leave the HDD500 turned on and tuned to cable 10.1. Afterwards the host channel still showed as my PBS channel(Tampa 3).

As I understand it, 8.01.42/8.06.44 means 8.01.42 is in the flash memory. Since my G* test is successful while showing TVGOS version 8.01.42, I assume that a reset to flash memory WILL NOT prervent successful downloading guide dat on a digital channel.

I used to have 1.2.05 and then I upgraded to get rid of the HDMI video reverting to auto-HDMI mode all the time.

I don't see the need to test with 1.2.05 any longer, since the 1.2.13 FW update works well.

Interesting...I upgraded all my units with the 1.2.13 firmware, and I still have the problem where it reverts to Auto HDMI mode on one unit.

Mark

I turned off the Auto-Off feature, and left my unit on tuned to 10.1 (KOLN in Lincoln, NE), which I had previously done the G* test on (VBI did increment). The following morning, day 8 of the program guide was filled in. SO...I guess you can indicate that this digital channel is correctly broadcasting TVGOS.

I tried this last night with mine. I disabled the Auto-Off, and confirmed that the last listing shown on the TVGOS screen was 11:30pm on Wed Aug 27th. I left the unit turned on, and tuned to OTA 4.1 (WWL-DT New Orleans) which is my local CBS station. This morning I checked the TVGOS screen and had listings thru 11:30pm on Thu Aug 28th. :D:D:D:D:D

No wonder CC, BB, and Fry's could not sell these things.
And the fact that they were $999.99.

And the fact that they were $999.99.

Heh, I paid retail for my first one (from One Call) and got the other two for $250 from Tweeter. Funny thing is, I worked there at the time, and had to read about the "Disco" price on this thread! :rolleyes:

Mark

I have more control over my forum - not the AVS forum, since the first post in this thread isn't mine to edit...

I can put a sticky topic about this on my forum.

I need to go back though, and confirm that even the oldest firmware version of the Sony DVR (1.2.05) works. I think WhatHappnd has this firmware version.

I am no techie so I apologize in advance to those that may think I am wasting their time. I do understand that there is a way to get a digital channel to be your host channel. What I am not sure of is if after I "force" the digital channel to be my host channel, would it revert back to the analog host afterwards? It would seem to me that if this is the case, then I would be better off waiting for February (DTV Transition) to do it. However, if the digital channel "sticks" and becomes my host channel after I "force" it, then I might as well do it now. I hesitate because every time, I try to do "correct" something on my 250, I manage to mess it up! Ok, let me have it!

I am no techie so I apologize in advance to those that may think I am wasting their time. I do understand that there is a way to get a digital channel to be your host channel. What I am not sure of is if after I "force" the digital channel to be my host channel, would it revert back to the analog host afterwards? It would seem to me that if this is the case, then I would be better off waiting for February (DTV Transition) to do it. However, if the digital channel "sticks" and becomes my host channel after I "force" it, then I might as well do it now. I hesitate because every time, I try to do "correct" something on my 250, I manage to mess it up! Ok, let me have it!

Edwin,

From my experience, once the digital host channel is locked, it will stay the host channel. However it appears that after a power cycle the host channel may revert back to the analog host.

One thing to keep in mind is that in February you will have to do a channel scan as many channels will be moving frequencies on the transistion. If you host channel is one of those, odds are that your DHG will need to find the new host.

-phil

Recently Time Warner Cable in LA shuffled their lineup. Did an autoscan to find all the channels again, both with my tv and HDD250. After the scan my TV found the new location for both nbc/cbs at 4.1/2.1 (they used to be in the 95.xxx range and above.) However the HDD250 did not find them. (although it found all the other stations just fine.) If I directly enter the #'s 2.1 or 4.1 on the keypad of the remote to tune to either station it informs me there is no signal. The cable is hooked up fine because I get all the other stations.

Usually I wouldn't worry, because I get the networks OTA. However in rainy weather (rare in LA) or during Santa Ana conditions (frequent) the OTA digital signal for NBC (and FOX) is poor to say the least.

What has gone wrong that I can't tune to these stations with the HDD250, yet I can with the TV.

What has gone wrong that I can't tune to these stations with the HDD250, yet I can with the TV.Entering 2.1 or 4.1 is useless unless they came up in the scan, as it has no idea what RF channel to map those to. You could try the "Add channels" option, to try to find them again, I suppose. I'm not a cable user, so I'm not up on the fine points of clear QAM reception.

Recently Time Warner Cable in LA shuffled their lineup. Did an autoscan to find all the channels again, both with my tv and HDD250. After the scan my TV found the new location for both nbc/cbs at 4.1/2.1 (they used to be in the 95.xxx range and above.) However the HDD250 did not find them. (although it found all the other stations just fine.) If I directly enter the #'s 2.1 or 4.1 on the keypad of the remote to tune to either station it informs me there is no signal. The cable is hooked up fine because I get all the other stations.


What has gone wrong that I can't tune to these stations with the HDD250, yet I can with the TV.

I have both TW and OTA reception in WLA, and find it hard to believe that TW would assign the same numbers as OTA. If your 250 is connected to an antenna, both those channels should come in OTA.

Ray

Even though the host channel says 5.1, the guide just stops downloading and says "no listing". This has happened on all my units at different times. I have to go back to the analog channel to get the guide back. Anyone else having this problem? Thanks.

fox

Even though the host channel says 5.1, the guide just stops downloading and says "no listing". This has happened on all my units at different times. I have to go back to the analog channel to get the guide back. Anyone else having this problem? Thanks.

foxYes, I've had this happen a few times (but in my case the missing listings are sparsely populated with a good listing here-and-there) - it seems to coincide with additional channels appearing at the end of my list, but I'm not positive there is a correlation. Even when it is in this state, if I run the G* test on the digital channel, the listings fill in. To get it to start downloading listings from the digital host channel again (when the unit is "off"), I need to force the host away from that channel, and then back to that channel.

Perhaps it has something to do with the Sony's documented preference for an analog host over digital, so even though it has a digital host seemingly "locked in", it may go on the prowl in the wee hours for an analog one. Just a guess. But WhatHappend has not reported this symptom, so it may be a local phenomenon having something to do with guide updates.

Yes, I've had this happen a few times (but in my case the missing listings are sparsely populated with a good listing here-and-there) - it seems to coincide with additional channels appearing at the end of my list, but I'm not positive there is a correlation. Even when it is in this state, if I run the G* test on the digital channel, the listings fill in. To get it to start downloading listings from the digital host channel again (when the unit is "off"), I need to force the host away from that channel, and then back to that channel.

Perhaps it has something to do with the Sony's documented preference for an analog host over digital, so even though it has a digital host seemingly "locked in", it may go on the prowl in the wee hours for an analog one. Just a guess. But WhatHappend has not reported this symptom, so it may be a local phenomenon having something to do with guide updates.

Thank you for your response frank. I just hope I don't have to babysit my 3 Sony's when analog goes away just to have guide data. I think for now I'll keep on an analog host.

fox

It’s 2005. I’m looking for something to replace my Sony DVD Recorder. There are some fancy new combo units available from Panasonic. They have VCR, DVDR, and a Hard Drive all in one unit! Wow! But they're still too expensive; maybe next year. Wait a minute; Sony has a High Definition Recorder with a Hard Drive. No built in DVDR and it costs $1,000.00! Outrageous, besides, there are hardly any HD TV stations out there.
2006 rolls around and the Panasonic DMR-EH75 is looking good. For a very reasonable $450.00 I have a fantastic combo unit. Hooray! By 2007 or 2008, I’ll bet Panasonic will have one with High Definition.
Along comes late 2007 and I’m looking for the latest and greatest from Panasonic. Wait a minute, this can’t be right, there must be a typo, no hard drive units at all! In fact there is no good fee free High Definition Over the Air unit at all! A nightmare come true! Is it 1992 again? How could they do this? Tivo? Monthly fees for Over the Air? Give me a break! Come next year, I guess I’ll use a Digital to Analog converter with my Panasonic DMR-EH75.
Early 2008 brings with it the possibility of a future DVR, the EchoStar TR-50. My mouth waters with anticipation.
Now it’s the summer of 2008. I get my highly rated DTVPal. I can’t get it to work with my Panasonic TV Guide, the picture quality is terrible, and it dies the next day. What a letdown, but that was only the beginning. Tech support was like robot Deli Bellys. I called EchoStar in Colorado and spoke with an actual American woman and told her about my DTVPal problems. My return for refund request was met with “we have a no refund policy”. They promised to send me a new unit. In closing my conversation with her I asked, will the same division (as DTVPal) in EchoStar be making the TR-50? An enthusiastic Yes! Will the same Tech support be used for the TR-50? A cautious Yes. Will the same customer support people be working the TR-50? A depressed Yes. Thank you, click. One week later and I still don’t have a replacement DTVPal. That’s the end of TR-50. Now what? I take a second look at the Sony DHG- HDD 250. It’s looking pretty darn good at this point. A casual whim takes me to E-bay and what do I find? A like new 250 up for auction and is located within driving distance. A fairly easy bid process wins the unit for me at a price of $460.00. To me that’s not bad. To some of you a fortune. Three years of TiVo would set me back almost $700.00. I have the Sony at home and it doesn’t have so much as a smudge on it. Everything works. I have my Over the Air HD recording and good old TV Guide. Life is good again. This forum is simply amazing with its wealth of information. Thank you all.

Even though the host channel says 5.1, the guide just stops downloading and says "no listing". This has happened on all my units at different times. I have to go back to the analog channel to get the guide back. Anyone else having this problem? Thanks.

fox

I've been experiencing this as well when using a digital host. I've had complete days with no listings and sometimes, as Frank70 mentioned, only little bits of guide info missing.

I've been experiencing this as well when using a digital host. I've had complete days with no listings and sometimes, as Frank70 mentioned, only little bits of guide info missing.

10 days since I switched my 250 to digital host - host is still 4.1 - TVGOS is still fully populated - no issues - no worries about DTV day.

It’s 2005. I’m looking for something to replace my Sony DVD Recorder. ... This forum is simply amazing with its wealth of information. Thank you all.

About that same time I was wanting a an HD-DVR. Saw the Sony but thought it was too expensive. Bought a Fusion HD card for my PC. Worked ok, but, in April '06 I bought a Sony 250 new off e-Bay for under $400. Called Sony concerned about DTV-Day - was told the unit was already set up to handle TVGOS downloads from digital once the stations started broadcasting it. Was a little nervous about that so - for the first time in my life - bought a 5 yr service contract. Just in the last couple weeks, by following WhatHappened's proceedure, got my 250 switched to digital downloads of TVGOS. It is a great unit - welcome to the club.

And yes, this is a great forum.

Perhaps it has something to do with the Sony's documented preference for an analog host over digital, so even though it has a digital host seemingly "locked in", it may go on the prowl in the wee hours for an analog one. Just a guess. But WhatHappend has not reported this symptom, so it may be a local phenomenon having something to do with guide updates.

My unit's host has been CBS-HD via the cable card channel 804 for over 16 days. The unit has even cold restarted once in that period 8/12/08 and that didn't effect anything (not sure of why it rebooted).

I have never had the listings stop when on a digital host. I have had in the Feb time frame where the host would revert to analog on its own but all the listings were intact. I wonder if your saved TVGOS information like lineups, hosts and zipcodes information was acquired on a channel that is sending a different version of TVGOS. When my cable company convert to all digital simulcast and my unit transitioned to a PBS OTA host I was missing a lot of listings for newer channels. Some channels were showing listings in Spanish (FSN-HD). If you guys are really interested in finding out, do the procedure I made, that is in the FAQ site, to reset TVGOS information.

Is your CBS stations CBS O&O? If not, maybe they are producing there own late night PAID FOR PROGRAMMING that doesn't contain the VBI data.

Recently Time Warner Cable in LA shuffled their lineup. Did an autoscan to find all the channels again, both with my tv and HDD250. After the scan my TV found the new location for both nbc/cbs at 4.1/2.1 (they used to be in the 95.xxx range and above.) However the HDD250 did not find them. (although it found all the other stations just fine.) If I directly enter the #'s 2.1 or 4.1 on the keypad of the remote to tune to either station it informs me there is no signal. The cable is hooked up fine because I get all the other stations.

Usually I wouldn't worry, because I get the networks OTA. However in rainy weather (rare in LA) or during Santa Ana conditions (frequent) the OTA digital signal for NBC (and FOX) is poor to say the least.

What has gone wrong that I can't tune to these stations with the HDD250, yet I can with the TV.

Entering 2.1 or 4.1 is useless unless they came up in the scan, as it has no idea what RF channel to map those to. You could try the "Add channels" option, to try to find them again, I suppose. I'm not a cable user, so I'm not up on the fine points of clear QAM reception.

[QUOTE=Ray1938;14497901]I have both TW and OTA reception in WLA, and find it hard to believe that TW would assign the same numbers as OTA. If your 250 is connected to an antenna, both those channels should come in OTA.

Yup...TW Redondo Beach assigned the same numbers as OTA. I'm beginning to think this is a cable related issue. Have tried to add channels via autoscan 2 times now and via 9012 reset 2 times. Each time resulted in a different number of digital channels being found. The 3rd out of 4 tries actually found CBS/NBC (2.1/4.1) on the cable and they worked for 5 mins. Then went back to a black screen with "no signal".

My 250 is connected to an antenna...unfortunately it is in the attic, and must be aimed directly at the tree outside my house to aim at the signal tower. So reception is not that good for digital stations over 700 Mhz. (CBS, Fox and some of the locals). Have just ordered a channel master uhf only antenna to mount on the roof...hopefully that will clear up the OTA reception, and wont have to worry about the networks on the cable.

southbayla, I can confirm that my DHG also is less sensitive to the digital signals than my other TVs, the two Westies.
Quite often if the digital signal on my Westingtonhouse is low but still quite watchable the DHG will display "no signal".
There used to be great variation among digital tuners when it came to signal sensitivity three years ago, and now hardly any. The only major deficiency I am not happy about on this Sony DVR is its signal sensitivity which would be considered good three years ago but nowadays really below average.

southbayla, I can confirm that my DHG also is less sensitive to the digital signals than my other TVs,... The only major deficiency I am not happy about on this Sony DVR is its signal sensitivity which would be considered good three years ago but nowadays really below average.

I think the problem is less sensitivity than poor multi-path rejection.

When I first got my Fusion card in '05, it had similar reception problems to the Sony 250. As Dvico updated the software, its reception improved substantially. It still isn't as good as my SXRD (both on an attic mounted antenna) but nearly so. For the DHG-HDD 250, I ended up putting up a roof mounted highly directional antenna. Luckily, where I live all the broadcast antenna are within a few degrees of each other. Now the DHG has (almost) as good reception as the Fusion card. If Sony put a little effort into a software update focused on Multi-Path I think they could make the same kind of improvements I've seen with my Fusion card in my PC.

A month or so ago I had used the G* test - leave-it-on method to fill 8 days of listings overnight.

Today I found that my Sony had been left on overnight, and after the previous test I had forgotten to reset the auto off, so I didn't get any listing for the 8th day...

But I noticed my LG3410a front-panel light indicated it was seeing TVGOS listings were coming, so I set my Sony to CBS digital, did the G* test, left the unit on, and checked an hour later and the 8th day was filled in...convenient, huh!?

is your Sony DHG-HDD250/500 still available?

is your Sony DHG-HDD250/500 still available?

Check eBay - I see two listed for sale.

There has been a lot of shuffling of channels on TWC in Los Angeles for the past few weeks related mostly due to the olympics.This has made rebooting the Sony necessary to receive the new mapping.The problem is that the clock will not set and falls further behind every reboot.I have tried both cold and warm reboots as i have done several times before.The guide works fine and doing the 9012 test shows the packets coming in as before on channel 94 wich is designated by TWC for this purpose.I have also tried to leave the unit on for hours on KCBS 2 and KCET6.Any other suggestions?

There has been a lot of shuffling of channels on TWC in Los Angeles for the past few weeks related mostly due to the olympics.This has made rebooting the Sony necessary to receive the new mapping.The problem is that the clock will not set and falls further behind every reboot.I have tried both cold and warm reboots as i have done several times before.The guide works fine and doing the 9012 test shows the packets coming in as before on channel 94 wich is designated by TWC for this purpose.I have also tried to leave the unit on for hours on KCBS 2 and KCET6.Any other suggestions?

You can try hooking up an antenna. Also, do you really mean KCBS channel 2, or KCBS HD - channel 402 in WLA, which is the correct choice?
Ray

I would vote YES. Things are getting a tad cluttered.

You can try hooking up an antenna. Also, do you really mean KCBS channel 2, or KCBS HD - channel 402 in WLA, which is the correct choice?
Ray

I tried both analog and 402 KCBS HD and there is also no activity on the tv guide 9012 test for KCBS HD.Unfortunately I have a very difficult time receiving anything with an antenna at my location.Clock has been out for a week-now maybe TWC is messing with the HD channels somehow.I read in the local TWC thread that the bitrate was reduced for many HD channels including KCBS HD.

This past weekend Comcast remapped the local HD non scrambled signals. I have been using the HDD500 for 3 years, and it has been flawless to this point. I dont use a cablecard , but map the channel assignments for the guide data. I have found out the new channel locations , and reassigned the maps in the channel assignment editor. I cant get the new channels. I can get them with the LG3410A box QAM , and the built in QAM tuner in my sharp aquos. The LG3410A picked up one channel as 117.801. It used to be 122.1. Is the built in HDD500 tuner weaker than the LG3410A tuner , and do I need to boost the signal? I have not browsed this thread for a few years. Is there a built in diagnostic that can test why I cant pick up the new channel assignments?

I have found out the new channel locations , and reassigned the maps in the channel assignment editor. I cant get the new channels. I can get them with the LG3410A box QAM , and the built in QAM tuner in my sharp aquos. The LG3410A picked up one channel as 117.801. It used to be 122.1.I'm a little confused - you re-scanned both boxes and 117.801 isn't detected by the Sony box, but is found by the LG? I don't have cable, but would assume that signal strength should never be an issue with cable.

I'm a little confused - you re-scanned both boxes and 117.801 isn't detected by the Sony box, but is found by the LG? I don't have cable, but would assume that signal strength should never be an issue with cable.

Yes. Thats what is frustrating. I hooked 3 tuners on the exact same coax feed (one at a time no splitters). This line is a single feed thats not split at all. The LG3410A box picks up the signal at full strength, and the built in QAM tuner in the Sharp Aquos also picks the new mappings up. The Sony HDD500 gets no signal at all. I have been browsing this thread and it seems that the HDD500 tuner isnt up to standard. Signal strength is an issue with cable if the lines are split and excess noise is in the line. Yet the older tuner of the 3410A picked up the new signals as did the Sharp tuner. The Sony HDD500 is the core of my system for its 60 Hour HD storage capacity. I have not tried a signal booster yet, but the HDD500 tuner acts like a weak sister compared to the other tuners.

southbayla, I can confirm that my DHG also is less sensitive to the digital signals than my other TVs, the two Westies.
Quite often if the digital signal on my Westingtonhouse is low but still quite watchable the DHG will display "no signal".
There used to be great variation among digital tuners when it came to signal sensitivity three years ago, and now hardly any. The only major deficiency I am not happy about on this Sony DVR is its signal sensitivity which would be considered good three years ago but nowadays really below average.



I seem to be having the same problem with the HDD500 tuner. Comcast remapped the clear QAM channels, and my LG3410A DVR, and Sharp Aquos tuner pick them up , but get no signal with the HDD500.

I ran several tests to try to definitively determine if the DHG-HDD250/500 is DTV transition ready.

As I've previously shown, the DHG is capable of downloading TVGOS data from a digital host station (in this case KHOU Houston's CBS station broadcasting on ATSC channel 11.1). Houston has two other TVGOS host stations - PBS NTSC channel 8 and FOX NTSC channel 26. I used a UHF/VHF splitter to filter out the PBS signal during my tests, but the FOX channel was still present on the antenna cable to the DHG.

The remaining concern that I have is that my DHGs will become doorstops if I need to perform a factory reset after the NTSC host channels are gone and the unit can only rely on the ATSC stream. It has been reported that this should not be a problem, the factory firmware on the DHG is ATSC capable, but I haven't seen anyone definitively prove this, so that was my goal.

From the tests that I ran, I learned a few things that I did not know before:

1) Performing a factory reset will not only erase any OTA TVGOS software updates, but is will also erase any firmware updates performed on the DHG. Prior to the reset my DHG had firmware rev 1.2.13, afterward it had reverted to 1.2.5.

2) Using WhatHappend's method to reliably force a host channel (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14423155#post14423155) does not seem to work after a factory reset. I used this procedure to try to force to channel 11.1 immediately after the factory reset but my DHG found channel 26 as it's host after the nightly download.

3) The DHG will find host channels that are not found during the auto-scan from antenna procedure. After several tests with a roof-top antenna I finally resorted to using a pair of rabbit ears for the test. During the antenna scan as part of the reset procedure, I removed the antenna from the DHG input during the analog channel scan. I then attached the antenna during the digital channel scan. Doing this I forced the DHG not to find the analog channel during the scan. Still the next morning channel 26 was the host channel even after running the "VBI search current channel" test.

4) Houston KRIV FOX 26 transmits the channel line up, but not program information in it's TVGOS data stream. It also broadcasts an old TVGOS software stream (version 8.05.40).

5) After a factory reset, the DHG is able to detect VBI data and set it's clock from a digital TVGOS broadcaster, but IT IS NOT able to download channel or program lineup data from the digital TVGOS channel.

To come the conclusion in #5 above, I ran a series of tests over the last week. I was frustrated in my attempts to reach a definitive conclusion because the DHG would keep finding the TVGOS stream on channel 26. Finally last night I decided to use the rabbit ears to filter out channel 26. I was able to position the antenna such that channel 11.1 was received clearly and VBI data was smoothly detected according to the G* test. At the same time channel 26 showed considerable ghosting and snow and the G* test could not detect VBI data. I then performed the full factory reset, scanned the antenna with the antenna disconnected during the analog scan, and finally performed a G* test on 11-1. After that I ran the "VBI search current channel" test and left the unit off over night. Within approximately 30 minutes the clock on the front of the unit was set correctly. This morning I turned the unit on and went to the TV Guide screen. No channel or program data. I pulled up the firmware menu and it showed 8.01.42/0.00.00. I then turned to the Host Channel menu and that was blank.

I have finally been able to filter out both of the analog TVGOS host channels (since there was no TVGOS update or host channel reported), but unfortunately at the same time I think I've found that the default firmware on the DHG is not fully digital transition ready.

The good news is that if I have to perform a factory reset after the NTSC signals are gone, my DHG won’t be a complete brick but unfortunately it will lose a good part of its usefulness.

Regards,

-phil

I ran several tests to try to definitively determine if the DHG-HDD250/500 is DTV transition ready.


I didn't see from your tests if you did the G* test on the digital host channel and went to the VBI slicer screen in the TVGOS diag menu and see if any counts are increasing.

Then if so, leave you DHG on and tuned to the digital host (left on from the G* test) and see if it updates the TV Guide information.

I didn't see from your tests if you did the G* test on the digital host channel and went to the VBI slicer screen in the TVGOS diag menu and see if any counts are increasing.

I don't think I tried that. I did the G* test and saw the VBI counts increaing there (at about 2 per second). Which one is the VBI slicer screen? Is that pretty obvious once I enter the TVGOS diag? I usually just check the first one which shows the TVGOS version and the second which shows the host channel.

Then if so, leave you DHG on and tuned to the digital host (left on from the G* test) and see if it updates the TV Guide information.

That was one of the tests I ran. I left the unit tuned to 11.1 all night after running the G* test and got no TVGOS data the next morning.

-phil

I don't think I tried that. I did the G* test and saw the VBI counts increaing there (at about 2 per second). Which one is the VBI slicer screen? Is that pretty obvious once I enter the TVGOS diag? I usually just check the first one which shows the TVGOS version and the second which shows the host channel.

Press down arrow a couple time in the diag screen. The Title of the screen will be obvious.

That was one of the tests I ran. I left the unit tuned to 11.1 all night after running the G* test and got no TVGOS data the next morning.

I didn't see that test in your post.

After getting the ATSC slicer information, the next step would be to apply the FW update again and see if that changes anything.

BTW - The FW reverting to the version that was shipped on the unit after a factory reset is a well known feature. If SONY updates the unit, they also replace the factory loaded version.

I didn't see that test in your post.


That was one of the several different things I tried to get TVGOS data over the last few days.


After getting the ATSC slicer information, the next set will be to apply the FW update again and see if that changes anything.

BTW - The FW reverting to the version that was shipped on the unit after a factory reset is a well known feature. If SONY updates the unit, they also replace the factory loaded version.

Yeah, nice feature there. I guess you're right I need to update the FW to see if that helps.

-phil

Yes. Thats what is frustrating. I hooked 3 tuners on the exact same coax feed (one at a time no splitters). This line is a single feed thats not split at all. The LG3410A box picks up the signal at full strength, and the built in QAM tuner in the Sharp Aquos also picks the new mappings up. The Sony HDD500 gets no signal at all. I have been browsing this thread and it seems that the HDD500 tuner isnt up to standard. Signal strength is an issue with cable if the lines are split and excess noise is in the line. Yet the older tuner of the 3410A picked up the new signals as did the Sharp tuner. The Sony HDD500 is the core of my system for its 60 Hour HD storage capacity. I have not tried a signal booster yet, but the HDD500 tuner acts like a weak sister compared to the other tuners.


I would be interested in knowing if the signal booster for cable idea worked...after the recent shuffling of the line-up by TWC my TV picks up the cable signals just fine...but the HD250 does not find them all...haven't installed the new antenna on the roof yet...but not holding my breath on that one as the signal tower is hidden behind a cluster of tall trees in my neighbors yard.

There seems to be consensus that IF we're forced to do a factory reset after Feb '09 we could forever lose the ability to get digital TVGOS data because the TVGOS firmware will revert to the original version, which apparently can't handle a firmware update via a digital host channel.

Several days ago I posted what I believe to be a complete list of TVGOS Setup Codes on Spiff72's forum (along with a caveat emptor disclaimer). Among the codes are the following:

352747373 Reset Flash Memory
352742666 Commit Flash Memory
352747283 Save To Flash Memory
352747378 Restore From Flash Memory

I have no idea what these actually do, but the third one sounds it like it could replace the factory TVGOS firmware in flash memory with the current update, making that the version that boots after a factory reset.

Just some more food for thought. (My single 250 is working just fine at the moment, getting complete, consistent listing data through a cable card from an analog host, so I do not intend to experiment with this myself. In other words, I don't have the courage to try it myself :eek:.)

352747373 Reset Flash Memory
352742666 Commit Flash Memory
352747283 Save To Flash Memory
352747378 Restore From Flash Memory

I have no idea what these actually do, but the third one sounds it like it could replace the factory TVGOS firmware in flash memory with the current update, making that the version that boots after a factory reset.

Just some more food for thought. (My single 250 is working just fine at the moment, getting complete, consistent listing data through a cable card from an analog host, so I do not intend to experiment with this myself. In other words, I don't have the courage to try it myself :eek:.)

It looks to me like the last one "Restore From Flash Memory" could be usefull, and hopefully not destructive. It might allow you to overwrite a downloaded firmware with the flash version (i.e. go back to 8.01.42).

If someone else wants to put their DHG under the knife (mine's busy testing the factory reset function) this could be a good test to run. If it works as expected, that might make us little more confident about the operation of "Save to Flash Memory".

-phil

It looks to me like the last one "Restore From Flash Memory" could be usefull, and hopefully not destructive. It might allow you to overwrite a downloaded firmware with the flash version (i.e. go back to 8.01.42).

If someone else wants to put their DHG under the knife (mine's busy testing the factory reset function) this could be a good test to run. If it works as expected, that might make us little more confident about the operation of "Save to Flash Memory".

-phil

I wouldn't try those codes on a working unit. You have no idea what it is writing or reading from flash. If it wipes out the flash boot block your unit is dead and would have to be returned to SONY (and they might not fix it for any price, since you tampered with it.)

I would be interested in knowing if the signal booster for cable idea worked...after the recent shuffling of the line-up by TWC my TV picks up the cable signals just fine...but the HD250 does not find them all...haven't installed the new antenna on the roof yet...but not holding my breath on that one as the signal tower is hidden behind a cluster of tall trees in my neighbors yard.


Bad news. The booster did not work. Is the Sony tuner that inferior? My LG3410A thats 3 years older picks up the channels fine.

Bad news. The booster did not work. Is the Sony tuner that inferior? My LG3410A thats 3 years older picks up the channels fine.

I don't have cable, but, I initially tried adding a booster to my large antenna when my 250 had so much worse reception than my SXRD and Fusion card. It didn't help. Putting the 250 on it's own smaller, but, highly directional antenna made a huge difference. I still say it isn't the strength of the signal, but, poor multi-path rejection (or poor handling of dirty signals) that gives the 250/500 reception problems.

Bad news. The booster did not work. Is the Sony tuner that inferior? My LG3410A thats 3 years older picks up the channels fine.

You definitely don't need a booster for cable but an amplfier could overdrive the input. You might repeat the scan process with the splitter in place. Also, be sure you rescanned the cable signals since you won't receive digital channels that have not been scanned.

With regard to outdoor antenna, I get a strong signal from a roof mounted Radioshack $25 UHF unit, located behind a nearby hill, and about 28 miles from the transmitter.

Ray

Press down arrow a couple time in the diag screen. The Title of the screen will be obvious.


WH,

Are you talking about the "Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer" screen?

If so here is what I see when tuned to 11.1:

Tot Pkts 0
PAT 5 (increaes infrequently)
PMT 10 (increases infrequently)
TVG 592 (increases about 2/second)

I guess the next thing to do is update the firmware to 1.2.13

-phil

You definitely don't need a booster for cable but an amplfier could overdrive the input. You might repeat the scan process with the splitter in place. Also, be sure you rescanned the cable signals since you won't receive digital channels that have not been scanned.

With regard to outdoor antenna, I get a strong signal from a roof mounted Radioshack $25 UHF unit, located behind a nearby hill, and about 28 miles from the transmitter.

Ray


I have identified the problem and now can get the channels. It turns out that Comcast remapped the QAM channels to 4 digit sub channels. The Sharp aquos and LG3410a tuners could find the channels, the HDD500 tuner couldnt. I can tune in the channels manually now that I know the 4 digit sub channel numbers , but can not enter a 4 digit sub channel in the guide info.
I haven't found specific info as to what firmware upgrade if any can accept the 4 digit sub channels in the guide. Ive scanned this thread on the subject and have some info but not a specific firmware release solution. If someone knows the firmware version that accepts 4 digit sub channels in the guide, that is the answer.

I have identified the problem and now can get the channels. It turns out that Comcast remapped the QAM channels to 4 digit sub channels. The Sharp aquos and LG3410a tuners could find the channels, the HDD500 tuner couldnt. I can tune in the channels manually now that I know the 4 digit sub channel numbers , but can not enter a 4 digit channel in the guide info.
I havent found specific info as to what firmware upgrade if any can accept the 4 digit sub channel. Ive scanned this thread on the subject and have some info but not a specific firmware release solution. If someone knows the firmware version that accepts 4 digit sub channels in the guide, that is the answer.

My search turned up some discussion two years ago. What Happened and Spiff72 were postulating the problem has to do with only allocating 10 bits for channel number - and - there was talk of a patch since Gemstar wasn't going to update older versions to v9 which would support 4 digit channel numbers. See: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8280597#post8280597 and http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=8280766&postcount=6408

Wow. I can't even remember that last time I saw that - someone actually using the search function on this thread.

WH,

Are you talking about the "Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer" screen?

If so here is what I see when tuned to 11.1:

Tot Pkts 0
PAT 5 (increaes infrequently)
PMT 10 (increases infrequently)
TVG 592 (increases about 2/second)

I guess the next thing to do is update the firmware to 1.2.13

-phil

Phil,

Yes that looks like the TVGOS is detecting the ATSC VBI packets just fine.

Before you update the FW.

If you look at "Section Reception-Slicing 2" (look at third column-current channel) you should see the Dummy packet count increasing at the same rate as the TVG (2/sec) if you are not in a guide download period. But if you wait for a guide download period the Dummy packet count should stop incrementing and then the VBI Stats counts should increase with different packets received. Or Slicing data in the third column should increase in the Errs fields indicating packets with errors.

If the above works there is no reason the guide should not start populating (you should just need Lineup and Zipcode packets to get the choose your lineup screen). You might want to try the set zip code to 00000 and then set it back to your correct zipcode trick.

Maybe the digital host doesn't have your zipcode in its transmission yet (reason it worked when you started with the analog was that analog host had your zipcode, so your unit could find its lineup-CR,CB,CC lineup ids, only needs to happen once). Try another zipcode (eg. zipcode where the Channel's local studio is located).

If you do the G* on the host channel, then do channel up and then channel down and leave the unit on over night you can observe the counts in the morning to see if the VBI Stats change.

I would recommend taking a digital picture of the following screen before you go to bed and when you wake up:
"Section Reception-VBI Stats"
"Section Reception-Slicing 2"
"Section Reception-Slicing"
"Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer"

And note your Host Chan before and after just in case it changes;)

[QUOTE=WhatHappend;14531755]Phil,

Yes that looks like the TVGOS is detecting the ATSC VBI packets just fine.

Before you update the FW.
QUOTE]

Thanks for the suggestions. Looks like I have a lot to do, fortunately there is a long weekend coming up. I've already done the FW update, but that's easy enough to correct.

-phil

Wow. I can't even remember that last time I saw that - someone actually using the search function on this thread.
I agree, the search function on this forum is under-utilized.
AVS should add a rating indicator that indicates your search to initial post ratio. They could have some insulting rating scale for those that never search. For those that read every post on the thread the scale would not apply.

And allow users to hide initial posts by people with low ratings and a warning for those posters indicating that their post may not be viewed by expert readers due to his lack of pre-post due diligence.

And to make it even better have all the words in a non-reply post that were searched appeared in bold and in a different color with hidden links to the search the poster used. (So non-searchers would really get exposed because their posts would have no searched words.)

What does everyone think?

Thanks JimmyV. I was going to wait a while before relaying that 1023 is the largest number TV Guide accepts on the SONY so far.

I agree, the search function on this forum is under-utilized.
AVS should add a rating indicator that indicates your search to initial post ratio. They could have some insulting rating scale for those that never search. For those that read every post on the thread the scale would not apply.

And allow users to hide initial posts by people with low ratings and a warning for those posters indicating that their post may not be viewed by expert readers due to his lack of pre-post due diligence.

And to make it even better have all the words in a non-reply post that were searched appeared in bold and in a different color with hidden links to the search the poster used. (So non-searchers would really get exposed because their posts would have no searched words.)

What does everyone think?

Thanks JimmyV. I was going to wait a while before relaying that 1023 is the largest number TV Guide accepts on the SONY so far.

So, channel is still just a 10 bit integer value.

I think a better first step would be to put some instructions/help/hints on the search form to aid new users in creating more specific search results that give them fewer results to scan through. With 12,000+ posts in this thread, it is rather overwhelming to read them all, and, many simple searches such as for "channel" would produce so many hits that they are almost useless.

Even with a unit that has been out of production as long as this, there are occasional new users (or new to the forums). Many come here when they are in need of answers to something and want to find them soon. I don't think we want to discourage them, I think we should help them learn to make more productive use of the forums. At some point they may become contributors.

So, channel is still just a 10 bit integer value.

I think a better first step would be to put some instructions/help/hints on the search form to aid new users in creating more specific search results that give them fewer results to scan through. With 12,000+ posts in this thread, it is rather overwhelming to read them all, and, many simple searches such as for "channel" would produce so many hits that they are almost useless.

Even with a unit that has been out of production as long as this, there are occasional new users (or new to the forums). Many come here when they are in need of answers to something and want to find them soon. I don't think we want to discourage them, I think we should help them learn to make more productive use of the forums. At some point they may become contributors.

I completely agree with you. Much better way of putting it than I had typed up.

I am curious now - someone stated that "When doing a factory reset, the device reverts to 1.2.05". I am assuming that this statement comes from someone who updated their firmware themselves (perhaps too much to assume). I am curious whether this is the case if you sent your DVR to Sony for the 161-6 fix, and part of what they did was update the firmware? I sent mine in, and they updated it. Maybe I should try it on mine and see if it sticks.

Just for clarity - this is the one between the "Demo mode" and "Format hard drive" options in the 9012 menu, right?

Thanks,
Jeff

I am curious now - someone stated that "When doing a factory reset, the device reverts to 1.2.05". I am assuming that this statement comes from someone who updated their firmware themselves (perhaps too much to assume). I am curious whether this is the case if you sent your DVR to Sony for the 161-6 fix, and part of what they did was update the firmware? I sent mine in, and they updated it. Maybe I should try it on mine and see if it sticks.

Just for clarity - this is the one between the "Demo mode" and "Format hard drive" options in the 9012 menu, right?

Thanks,
Jeff

Well, I just tried the above and guess what? STILL AT 1.2.13! Obviously, there is a way to make the DVR not revert back to the original firmware.

I hope Sony does release an official update at some time in the future. This might put a lot of this confusion to bed.

Maybe Sony does something to units they receive for repair to make the later firmware permanent. Some people have had a factory reset cause their unit to revert to the original firmware. The question is, how was their firmware updated in the first place. Did they do it themselves?

^^^^^^^^^^^^ READ THIS POST
Well, I just tried the above and guess what? STILL AT 1.2.13! Obviously, there is a way to make the DVR not revert back to the original firmware.

I hope Sony does release an official update at some time in the future. This might put a lot of this confusion to bed.

I am not sure how many people here are confused. We have talked about the reverting firmware on this board in the past.

The factory default Sony firmware is stored on the hard drive. I know this for certain because I did experiments a while back in which I replaced the .05 files on the disk with the .13 versions and the unit did default to .13 when I did the front panel Wipe Unit procedure or the factory reset from the 9012 menu. If someone requires .13 to be the factory default, they could remove the drives and update the files there (as Sony apparently does as part of its service procedure). But after the rare use of "Restore Factory Default", it might be easier to just update to .13 from the flash drive again...

Personally, I think leaving the .05 files as the factory default is a good idea - it provides a way to revert to the earlier firmware in case .13 turns out to have problems or "features" we'd like to escape (such as (hypothetically) support for deleting certain recordings at the request of broadcasters etc.)


As Mark summarized, what is the point in updating the factory Firmware? You just pop in your thumb drive after the reset factory defaults procedure and the unit will update back to the current version. It is the only way to go back a prior Firmware version for testing.

Also, I just posted yesterday that if SONY does the update the factory load is changed.

BTW - The FW reverting to the version that was shipped on the unit after a factory reset is a well known feature. If SONY updates the unit, they also replace the factory loaded version.

Howdy All,
Is anyone else experiencing lost TVGOES data in the Las Vegas area? A G* test is revealing that the VBI data is not coming through PBS ch10-OTA (test result is FAIL). Looking back, this has been happening for about the last 2 days. I checked, and the local CBS affiliate digital 8.1-OTA does not appear to be transmitting any VBI packets either.

One question, regardless of the "host channel" setting/indication, I should see VBI packets on the channel being tested (the channel tuned to) when I start the test, right?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
MK

One question, regardless of the "host channel" setting/indication, I should see VBI packets on the channel being tested (the channel tuned to) when I start the test, right?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
MK
Yes.

Call your station and ask why the TVGOS data is not working.

Sony firmware version affects only tv compatibility, and has nothing to do with the guide, which is controlled by Gemstar. Gemstar must have complete control of the Guide portion of the DVR to insure compatibility. Also, it seems to me that the capability of receiving guide data must have been built in since the switchover to DTV was originally set for Dec 31, 2006.

A long time ago, I upgraded the Firmware to .13 but it reverted back to .05 after I did a factory reset.

Ray

On Tuesday evening, I had scheduled my Sony to record the 3 hours of the DNC on PBS, while I watched other programs on the TV. At 10PM, when the network coverage began, and with the recording 2/3 finished, I switched to the Sony, hit "PREV" to go to the beginning of the (still recording) show, and hit "FF" three times to scan the first 2 hours at 30x to see if we had missed anything earth shattering. Since we saw nothing special flying by, we let it run in FF right up to the current time.

All of this (i.e. the 30x FF in combination with real-time recording) apparently threw the Sony into a strange state, because when it reached the current time, it locked up. After about a minute, it rebooted itself all on its own. When it finished booting it was "off", so I turned it on (by this time I was no longer watching it on the TV, so what follows is only from what I saw on the front panel.) It came up in RECORDING mode, sat that way for less than a minute and rebooted again. This time the dreaded "INF 000FF80" message came up, and it rebooted again. On this reboot it said "Format..." or something of that sort, then it rebooted again. On this reboot it said "INF 10000000", then went off and stayed that way.

I turned it on, and lo-and-behold was almost back to square one. The Sony settings and channel scan was intact, but all TVGOS settings were back to factory settings and all recordings were gone (nothing important lost that hadn't already been transferred to DVD.) There was a message about a successfully recovered hard drive error. I was back to TVGOS firmware 8.01.42 and the guide was blank and asking for a zipcode.

So I am now in a position to test various TVGOS capabilities after a reset. My baseline Sony firmware is already 1.2.13, so I can't comment on versions prior to that or the upgrade procedure (nor do I suspect they have any effect on TVGOS capabilities), but I will be trying various things, resetting back to TVGOS version 8.01.42 as necessary.

So far, I've only discovered one thing for sure: Running the G* test while tuned to my local ANALOG (PBS) TVGOS host does download the time (after several hours), the new firmware, and presumably (since I've done it before) the listings. What it appears CANNOT be downloaded via this procedure is my channel lineup (i.e. the set of channels that goes with my zipcode and populates the listings screen.) I left it in the G* mode for over 24 hours and all it got was the time and the new firmware, no channels.

Preliminary tests trying the same thing with the local DIGITAL (CBS) TVGOS host (which also shows VBI packets counting) did not appear to give me a clock or firmware download, though I may not have left it alone long enough. I will be repeating this test to be sure.

Lastly, this also seemed like a good time to experiment with recording the PBS station overnight on DVD and VHS to see if I could archive valid analog VBI data. Both the DVD and VHS tests were a dismal failure; at least with my recorder, the TVGOS VBI data did not appear to be present on the re-modulated RF output from the DVD/VHS player (note that CC VBI data from both the DVD and the VHS tape does successfully get sent through the RF output, since captions are displayed by the Sony when the tape is running.) With the player's RF output connected to the Sony, the replaying picture was just fine, the closed captions worked fine, but the G* test indicated no TVGOS VBI packets present. It's almost as if my DVD/VHS recorder/player went to special pains to save and reproduce the CC VBI line(s), but totally lost the TVGOS VBI line(s). Perhaps a different recorder would behave differently, but mine is a no-go for TVGOS VBI archiving.

The saga will continue as I try more things.

Just for clarity - my statement about Sony releasing a firmware update that sticks was meant to include a newer version of the TVGOS software too...

I would like to see this DTV transition thing put to bed completely - but I am concerned by the problems that PhilB is having. I can't test myself, since it doesn't appear that my digital CBS affiliate is sending out data yet.

Thanks